Los Angeles, CA - OTA [Text View] - Page 10

holl_ands

10-25-06, 03:25 PM

TWC started encrypting the local HD channels on Monday, forcing me to shop for rabbit ears. I am in SFV, 91343, just north of the Van Nuys Airport. I'll need an indoor antenna that can pull in all of the local HD feeds.

Antennaweb says I need a medium directional antenna. I've read good reports on the Silver Sensor, but it does not appear to be available locally. BB sells Terk, which doesn't seem to be getting high marks. RadioShack sells, well, I'm not sure what to make of their antenna. My last attempt at OTA went down in flames, basically everything on the "whats wrong with ATSC" list, hence my reliance on QAM. But that was a few years ago in a condo a few miles east of my current location. I am hoping things are better now.

Any advice would be appreciated.
Thus far, you seem to be the only one reporting this problem...
Can anyone with an STB verify whether the local HD channels are CLEAR TO AIR or SUBSCRIPTION???

You should rescan to make sure that TWC-LA didn't simply relocate the QAM channel assignments....

==========================================
Best price for highly rated Silver Sensor (or the Terk "equivalent") is on-line:
http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=silver+sensor+antenna&lmode=online&scoring=p
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/102-6527520-7480124?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=silver+sensor+antenna&Go.x=10&Go.y=8&Go=Go
http://www.amazon.com/Terk-Technology-HDTVi-Indoor-Antenna/dp/B0001FV36E/ref=sr_11_1/102-6527520-7480124?ie=UTF8
Note that the Terk HDTVi adds a pair of collapsible rabbit ears for VHF (Ch2-13) reception.

Since you are more than 20 miles away from Mt Wilson, the Terk HDTVa and
fol. Philips amplified models should provide even better performance:
http://www.pcmall.com/pcmall/shop/detail.asp?dpno=578112&store=pcmall&source=pwbfroogle&adcampaign=email,pwbfroogle&wt.mc_id=pwbfroogle

joe221

10-25-06, 03:32 PM

Thus far, you seem to be the only one reporting this problem...
Can anyone with an STB verify whether the local HD channels are CLEAR TO AIR or SUBSCRIPTION???

You should rescan to make sure that TWC-LA didn't simply relocate the QAM channel assignments....

==========================================
Best price for highly rated Silver Sensor (or the Terk "eqivalent") is on-line:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_e/102-6527520-7480124?url=search-alias%3Delectronics&field-keywords=silver+sensor+antenna&Go.x=0&Go.y=0&Go=Go
http://www.amazon.com/Terk-Technology-HDTVi-Indoor-Antenna/dp/B0001FV36E/ref=sr_11_1/102-6527520-7480124?ie=UTF8
Note that the Terk HDTVi adds a pair of collapsible rabbit ears for VHF (Ch2-13) reception.

I have to put my 2c in. I see you have the Terk in your sig. I bought that Terk first. What a POS. I have as clean a shot at Mt. Wilson as there is on the West side of LA and it couldn't lock on hardly anything. Got the SS at Amazon and ALL the stations come in at between 85 and 99%. Get the Silver sensor and nix the Terk!

lusid

10-25-06, 03:52 PM

I did a full rescan, found all the locals by their channel ID, they did move. Signal strength is 96-100%, nothing. I called them, took 3 calls to find someone who knew what QAM was, and he said it was intentional. Although I have no idea why they would do it in SFV, but not down in OC. I also started manually scanning through everything that got a signal lock in case they mixed up the channel IDs. Thats tedious, but I did find a few oddball SD feeds. Not finished yet, since I only get through about 2-3 channels before I crash the receiver (fusionHD5 Gold).

I was hoping it was a configuration error by the west valley head end, since it coincided with the channel renumbering push, but they have told me it was deliberate.

joe221

10-25-06, 10:20 PM

lusid

10-26-06, 12:38 AM

It would be good news, except that they are encrypted. The scanner can read the channel names, but can't decode the stream.

I thought I might lose one day of shows on the DVR during the renumbering push, but it's been sucking air for 3 days now, and TWC says I'm SOL. I have about 75 channel locks to confirm before giving up completely, but most of them are [LAM] locks only. A couple are getting LAMGV locks but so far those are all on-demand promo reels.

I'm trying to get through those tonight, then I guess it's time to go antenna shopping.

jwcrash

10-26-06, 12:28 PM

...then I guess it's time to go antenna shopping.

Consider the Terrestrial Digital DB4 Antenna...I'm in WLA (~25 miles to Mt Wilson) and couldn't get anything consistently until I set this badboy up. Now I get strong, consistent signals on all the available channels...save for the very occasional glitch.

I couldn't find anyone in LA that sells it, but Antennas Direct got it to me quickly for around $50 and it's definitely turned out to be worth it. Google "DB4 Antenna" and you'll see why it's one of the most popular UHF antennas out there.

Hope that helps!

Rick_R

10-26-06, 01:11 PM

I saw the Silver Sensor at the Circuit City in Woodland Hills. It came in two varieties. $24 for UHF only version and more but price undetermined for the amplified with VHF/UHF version.

Rick R

joe221

10-26-06, 01:46 PM

I saw the Silver Sensor at the Circuit City in Woodland Hills. It came in two varieties. $24 for UHF only version and more but price undetermined for the amplified with VHF/UHF version.

Rick R

I once thought Fry's had it for $50, this is a great find for a quick fix! Good work!! :D

bluebaron

10-26-06, 04:31 PM

Anyone know of one in Thousand Oaks? Also, any feedback on what channels we could get will be much appreciated.

lusid

10-26-06, 08:10 PM

Circuit city, I'll try that. I can never figure out how they stay in business, esp after the whole divx thing. Otherwise there is a frys around the corner from them so I ought to be able to at least find something to start testing OTA.

soopafresh

10-26-06, 11:13 PM

Same here. MDP120 NBC 4.1, OTA. No audio, but when I record, the audio plays. I did a rescan and the video still comes in fine. WTF ? Intentional? I don't understand.

qwert1515

10-27-06, 01:51 AM

BlueBaron what part of Thousand Oaks, I live near Sunset Hills (Higher Elevation) and I can pick up everything from Los Angeles perfectly except for CBS which breaks up occationaly. I installed my anntenna myself, it's a 4228 Channel Master.

Good Luck.

qwert1515

10-27-06, 01:55 AM

Also about NBC, I have a Fusion HDTV 5 Computer tuner and I have no problems with NBC.

RudyG

10-27-06, 03:08 AM

joe221

10-27-06, 12:05 PM

Well after playing around with pointing my Silver Sersor inside my apartment for a week or two, I decided to try it outside on the little patio in fron of my aprtment. It now pulls in 36 analog and 43 digital channels consistently. So one more vote for Silver Sensor from me. I'm in West LA, 90025.

Rudy

I point mine directly out a window, so I'm lucky I have great placement! Glad you had success, but I don't think the SS is weather proof! :eek:

RudyG

10-27-06, 02:54 PM

I point mine directly out a window, so I'm lucky I have great placement! Glad you had success, but I don't think the SS is weather proof! :eek:

That's fine, it's a covered patio anyway. :)

Rudy

woobot

10-27-06, 06:25 PM

Its has almost been 4 weeks since I got the Pioneer 4271, I notice two issues regarding the TV when watching the local stations OTA. First, I hear across the stations, random clicking sounds come from the TV speakers. I'm guessing that it's coming from the source & not from the TV. Secondly, when the reception is weak, the screen freezes & I cannot change the channel. I have to pull the plug to reset the TV. I'm trying to figure out if I have a problem with the TV & need to replace it? Thanks for your help.

Ed

lusid

10-29-06, 01:14 PM

Got the philips branded uhf/vhf silver sensor ($50 at CC). It sorta works.

I can get all the channels except 5.1 and 5.5, but not all at the same time. I have to point the antenna in a slightly different direction to optimise each channel, and I have not found a direction or placement that gets them all in consistently. I don't think I can teach my DVR to reorient the antenna for each recording.

Any suggestions from folks who've lived with OTA for a while?

kepper

10-29-06, 03:37 PM

lusid

10-29-06, 07:54 PM

Isn't the squareshooter an outdoor antenna?

narkspud

10-29-06, 10:41 PM

Don Bond

10-30-06, 03:55 AM

Hope this ain't redundant, but, I live on a hill in Camarillo, and have a pretty much straight shot to LA. What I wanted to do is get rid of my cable and put up a HD antenna.

My question is : which antenna, and what stations can I expect to get?

TIA,

Don

lusid

10-30-06, 10:23 AM

RudyG

10-30-06, 02:53 PM

I found a placement that gets most of the channels most of the time, with only sporadic green blocking. Except channel 5. It seems to work, or not, at random. Signal strength is averaging 75%, but I usually only get a partial lock [LaG]. Is it me, or is there something up with this broadcaster?

It's not you. Some of the channels really are available at different angles, despite what antennaweb.org says. It seems like the data on antennaweb.org is approximate and not exact.

As I stated in my post above. I ended up taking my Silver Sensor from being behind the window in my living room to being in front of my window outside of my living room onto the balcony/patio area in front of my apartment. This helped resolve the angle issues I was having inside my living room.

Good Luck.
Rudy

Larry Parker

10-30-06, 07:39 PM

Hope this ain't redundant, but, I live on a hill in Camarillo, and have a pretty much straight shot to LA. What I wanted to do is get rid of my cable and put up a HD antenna.

http://antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx

balpers

10-30-06, 08:40 PM

I am getting frequent break-ups (about half a second of pixellation followed by picture restoration) on KCET (28.1). The sound is unaffected. It remains stable.

The problem happens about one to three times a minute.

I receive several other HD OTA stations. None of them has this problem. This has been an issue for several months.

Is anyone else experiencing this problem? If so, is there anything we can do?

Burt

SolidState

11-01-06, 09:03 PM

It looks like NBC has messed up their resolution again. Does anyone else notice this?

joe221

11-01-06, 09:57 PM

It looks like NBC has messed up their resolution again. Does anyone else notice this?

Nothings in HD right now, what are you watching?

SolidState

11-01-06, 11:34 PM

The regular sidebarred programming looks horrible, and the HD has noticeable horizontal lines (like it is in the wrong resolution). This is most noticeable with text on the screen unless you are very close to the display.

This is also apparent on the D* HD MPEG2 & MPEG4 streams, as well as TWC's NBC4 HD feed.

Nobody else sees this?

joe221

11-02-06, 10:52 AM

abricko

11-09-06, 11:54 AM

DrDon

11-09-06, 03:18 PM

Topics merged.

kelly7000

11-09-06, 10:52 PM

I too am unable to get audio with channel 4.1 (KNBC) with a MyHD 120. I was able to work around it by using time shifting and watching the broadcast a few seconds behind.

I'm still having the same problem.

Rick_R

11-10-06, 01:15 PM

I DVR'd Leno and Conan last night on my local NBC4 (LA) and I noticed there was a small weather bug in the corner... It wasn't on NBC this morning though...

I attached a screen cap (via my slingbox) for you all to see.

I do not like it, and I don't need to know the time and weather! I'm hoping this was a test and it does not appear again!

Upon further review it was on during the commericals.
I too intensely disliked this. I hate all bugs and adding a second new bug doubles my displeasure. I noticed it was on the Jay Leno show and also its national commercials but not its local commercials. I saw it Wednesday night but fortunately Thursday night it was gone.

By the way, it is my opinion with digital TV the need for any bugs is gone. If you need to know your channel number and network you just have to press the guide button on your remote.

Rick R

TonyW79SFV

11-14-06, 08:59 PM

I DVR'd Leno and Conan last night on my local NBC4 (LA) and I noticed there was a small weather bug in the corner... It wasn't on NBC this morning though...

I attached a screen cap (via my slingbox) for you all to see.

I do not like it, and I don't need to know the time and weather! I'm hoping this was a test and it does not appear again!

Upon further review it was on during the commericals.

That bug only appeared for one night. I believe it was a mistake on KNBC's side. If you notice, this bug is suppose to seamlessly overlay during the Today Show. Every local station has a network-provided dedicated device to overlay time/temp during network morning shows. Because the Today Show is HD, an HD overlay system is setup at KNBC and someone may have apparently turned it on by accident or something signaled the device to start the overlay. The overlay stayed on during the network commercials but not the local commercials, which shows that the time/temp graphic generator is located after the network HD feed but before the local inline switcher. A network signal is suppose to turn on/off the locally inserted time/temp between the show and commercial.

MMORTLL

11-14-06, 10:01 PM

I would appreciate any help on what I need and what I am doing. Apologies in advance if this has been answered before - I know how frustrating that can be.

I tailgate at SC games. Sometimes I can't get my D-TV signal on my satellite so I plug in my RCA Amplified HDTV antenna (ANT 537) from BB (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7367985&type=product&productCategoryId=cat08084&id=1122653825126)
Sometimes I get a signal and sometimes not. I notice that when there is a slight wind that the signal breaks up (not surprising since this is an indoor antenna). Questions:

1) Does anyone suggest an antenna to use when outdoors to get the best signals on local channels? When the RCA works, I get darn near an HD picture out there - but due to the rabbit ear version of this antenna I think the wind is an issue.

2) I see Silver Sensor types mentioned on here. Would one of those be an option?

Also, I live downtown LA in a 13 story building. They have delayed getting HD in this building until February. The same RCA HDTV antenna does not pick up anything. I face south with some obstructions so my sense is I am doomed. But will appreciate any comments or guidance.

Thanks in advance,

RudyG

11-15-06, 05:38 PM

Hi MMORTLL.

I'd like to put a vote in for a Silver Sensor as it beats the rooftop antenna that my apartment building provides.
As has been mentioned numerous times it is directional so you'll need to point it at the signal source to get the best reception and the greatest number of channels. For a ballpark idea of a signal source you can visit antennaweb.org.

Rudy

MMORTLL

11-15-06, 08:55 PM

joe221

11-15-06, 09:35 PM

Hi Rudy,

Thanks for the note. Pardon my ignorance but is there a Silver Sensor manufacturer that you suggest? I see on BB and CC that there is more than one brand out there. (i.e Terk, Philllips,etc.)

Many thanks,

Phil

Phillips, Gemini, Zenith are identical and the Silver Sensor. Terk is not, and IMHO a POS. Amazon is usually a good source at a decent price, but they sometimes run out and the other sellers list at higher. It should run about $20ish.

Update: The times they are a changin'. I see they are now $30ish. :(

RudyG

11-16-06, 02:00 AM

Hi Rudy,

Thanks for the note. Pardon my ignorance but is there a Silver Sensor manufacturer that you suggest? I see on BB and CC that there is more than one brand out there. (i.e Terk, Philllips,etc.)

Many thanks,

Phil

Pretty much what Joe said above. I ended up picking up a Zenith brand, as I've become paranoid of anything branded as Philips or LG.

Rudy

thymej

11-17-06, 01:45 AM

soundseeker

11-17-06, 12:11 PM

Rick_R

11-17-06, 12:21 PM

For the last two weeks, there have been problems with the HD broadcast on the CW. I record Smallville in HD, and the last two weeks there has been a problem with the aspect ratio. On 11-9 Smallville-(Rage) started out okay as 16:9 but close to 2/3rds through the episode, the aspect ratio changed to 4:3 with block bars on top, bottom, left, and right. On 11-16-(Static), the aspect ratio for the whole episode was somewhere between 16:9 and 4:3 and the picture was somewhat squeezed.

See attachments
I saw this too. Basically in the middle of Smallville on 11/9/06 KTLA turned off their HD. They went to their stretched version of SD. I struggled to watch this crap of a picture. With the stretch all the cute women looked fat. I watched it so I didn't lose the story line but it was not particularly enjoyable.

I need to find the phone number of the KTLA engineer.

Rick R

joe221

11-17-06, 12:33 PM

I need to find the phone number of the KTLA engineer.

Rick R

I think we need an update here's what I have:

Engineering Dept:

KCBS - 323-460-3416
KNBC - 818-840-3799
KTLA - 323-460-3917
KABC - 818-863-7468
KTTV - 310-584-3335

RudyG

11-18-06, 11:51 PM

I'm new to the HD world. Currently have DISH network and would like to add an antenna for local OTA HD. I found the Terk TV44 antenna on Crutchfield's website and it seems to offer the easiest hookup. Antennaweb says I need a directional (I'm in Long Beach, 90808). Would this Terk TV44 (being amplified) do the trick? Anyone have any experience with this unit?

Sorry if its in the wrong forum (please point me to the correct forum if it is).

I had this antenna mounted on my satellite dish and its reception ability was essentially equivalent to a coat hanger. Needless to say I was not impressed, so I do not recommend it. If you look a few posts above you'll see my post about the Silver Sensor that gets more channels than the cheap rooftop antenna that my building provides.

Good Luck.
Rudy

joe221

11-19-06, 10:29 PM

Tonight's Denver/San Diego game on KNBC is just the pits. Constant breakups. They have to stop the 4.x crap and just start broadcasting! :mad: :mad: :mad:

DSperber

11-26-06, 10:18 PM

I haven't used the ATSC tuner in my DT100U for a while, so the problem I'm currently having may well be a hardware malfunction in the digital tuner that's been with me for a while but I just never noticed it until tonight (when I wanted to record "Desperate Housewives" on D-VHS because of a 3-program conflict on my DVR, caused, of course, by ABC's running "Desperate Housewives" until 10:01).

But then again, it might not, because the problem seems directly tied to tuning to channel 36, which is KNBC-DT. So maybe it's caused by NBC itself (now that its multi-casting), perhaps putting out something strange or unexpected in the datastream that the DT100U is unprepared for.

Whatever the actual cause, whenever I tune to channel 4.1 the tuner locks up, making it impossible for me to now tune to any other previously accessible (and programmed as a "favorite") digital channel. Even stranger, when I [theoretically] tune to some other channel (which actually shows on the OSD) the content truly tuned to is channel 36... KNBC-DT! No matter what I try to get the tuner to go to, it picks up only channel 36. Locked, on 36.

I can then also not re-scan/program the digital channels. The whole process is locked up. I get "no channels found", even though it looks like it was scanning.

Only solution, which works partially, is to pull the plug from the wall and let it sit for a bit, then plug it in and try to re-scan and hope it works (which it often doesn't). If it works, as long as I don't manually go through and "skip" those channels I'm not interested in, I can now manually tune to all digital channels... including KNBC-DT. As long as I don't tune to KNBC-DT things work normally. But if I tune to KNBC-DT, the whole tuner gets screwed up again and all previously scanned/programmed channels are once again erased and attempting to tune to any of them tunes to channel 36, KNBC-DT.

Strangely, if I do get the digital channel scan to work and then go through the scanned channels manually to "skip" those that I do not want, each channel's behavior seems normal. The signal strength is displayed, and then the channel number (e.g. 7.1) from the PSIP data. All channels populate their fields correctly and I can "add" or "skip" as expected. But once I get to channel 36, I get the signal strength number but the channel number (i.e. 4.1) never populates! And then I'm totally locked. I cannot change from channel 36 to any other channel, up or down! It's as if the DT100U was desperately trying to extract the channel number from the PSIP data and is 100% consumed (i.e. software bug perhaps). And, even if I turn the box off and on I cannot tune to any of the other digital channels previously scanned successfully (during my aborted "manual" process to "skip" unwanted channels). Dead.

So, any time I ask the tuner to tune to channel 36, KNBC-DT, the ATSC tuner and its memory is almost totally corrupted. As long as I avoid channel 36, KNBC-DT (4.1 actually, because if I only touch 4.2 or 4.4 I don't do the damage), I can survive and tuning is normal.

Strangely, my 34XBR960 which is fed from exactly the same off-air antenna coax (via splitter) has no problem whatsoever with KNBC-DT, channel 36. It is not bothered by whatever is bothering the DT100U. I've tried swapping the outputs of the splitter, and eliminating the splitter, but the DT100U still seems bothered by KNBC-DT. There's no signal strength problem on any channel.

Anybody else have a DT100U in the LA area? Are you having any problems whatsoever when you tune to KNBC-DT?

Again, it might well be my DT100U and its ATSC tuner, but it sure seems somehow directly tied to KNBC-DT channel 36.

SD73

11-27-06, 03:50 PM

DSperber

11-28-06, 02:04 AM

DS, that's basically the same problem I reported with my tuner in this same thead not too long ago. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8716725&highlight=sd73#post8716725 No real fix yet, but the problem is on NBC's end.Aha!!! So I'm not alone.

I posted another version of this question on the "HDTV Recorders" thread, and sure enough another fellow in Connecticut also had the same problem... and, suspiciously, it was also directly related to his local NBC-DT affiliate.

His comments were that the problem apparently had something to do with the GUIDE data they were sending out, and that "once they stopped doing it the problem went away". That's pretty vague, but it does confirm my (and your) strong suspicion that our local problem is with KNBC-DT and not with the DT100U or any other tuner similarly affected. It's bizarre how the damage occurs only when we tune to 36/4.1 (through any type of tuning... primary, EPG, Setup, etc.) and not on 4.2 or 4.4 (where, perhaps, there is absolutely no GUIDE data being sent out by KNBC-DT, hence no "damage" being done).

Interestingly, my XBR960 is seemingly totally unaffectedby whatever is in that 36/4.1 OTA stream which is so bothersome to the DT100U.

Anyway, I'm glad that this is a "real" problem but not with my DT100U. I will call the head engineer at NBC and see if I can find out something more meaningful. This is only a relatively recent problem, perhaps connected with their multi-casting.

SD73

11-28-06, 06:26 PM

I don't know if you made the call or not, but the problem was gone last night. I'll check again today, but with any luck it's solved.

DSperber

11-28-06, 07:24 PM

I don't know if you made the call or not, but the problem was gone last night. I'll check again today, but with any luck it's solved.Actually, I'm in Indianapolis and Chicago all of this week. Won't be back in LA until Monday night when I can try my DT100U again to see if the problem is gone for me as well.

I didn't make the call to NBC engineering yet because the phone number is at home in LA.

If your experience is a portent of good for me as well, I wonder what it was that they did or how they noticed something was wrong or whether they just figured it out for themselves or whether somebody else called in with a similar problem description or what?

Anyway, I will report back when I return to LA on Monday night.

Rick Raymo

11-29-06, 12:48 PM

Hey crew,

I have three HD monitors with tuners around the house here in Costa Mesa....

I get all the local channels with a big ol' Channel Master (pointed at Mt. Wilson.)

I have never had an issue getting a particular channel (since some of them started going up in 1997--unless the channel is down my mistake or maintenance.)

That said, KCOPDT (KCOP-DT) Channel 13.1 Los Angeles has gone missing over the past week.

I did a thread search for other reports and there aren't any that I can find.

It seems a bit low on the probability list that I'm having the problem here with three generations of tuners that get all the stations (that one previously included and a strong 92 average signal.)

Now I can't tune it.

Anyone got any news?

I've left messages at MyWhateverTheHeckTheyAreNow/UPN and gotten no response.

Beg?

arbie

11-29-06, 09:43 PM

Shew00

11-29-06, 09:55 PM

I too am unable to get audio with channel 4.1 (KNBC) with a MyHD 120. I was able to work around it by using time shifting and watching the broadcast a few seconds behind.

It appears that the KNBC issue has been fixed. I am now able to receive audio without resorting to timeshifting.

Rick Raymo

11-29-06, 11:33 PM

I see 13.1 KCOP-DT (UHF channel 66) on a Sharp Aquos, an RCA DTC-100, and several MyHD cards (although there's currently no audio on the DTC-100).

I finally had time to measure the signal--and the average of all 20 plus digital channels is around 91 down here with a good ChannelMaster UHF pointed solidly at Mt. Willy.

It turns out I am getting a 41 average (via all the various 3rd, 4th, 5th gen tuners around the digs.)

They've had a severe signal drop-off.

I'll shout at one of their engineers in the morning.

Thanks all.

RudyG

11-30-06, 12:29 AM

I finally had time to measure the signal--and the average of all 20 plus digital channels is around 91 down here with a good ChannelMaster UHF pointed solidly at Mt. Willy.

It turns out I am getting a 41 average (via all the various 3rd, 4th, 5th gen tuners around the digs.)

They've had a severe signal drop-off.

I'll shout at one of their engineers in the morning.

Thanks all.
My signal strength on 13.1 is also around 41. But then again that's what all the channels that don't come in report.
Also I had 9.1 dissapear. Probably because of the wind.

Rudy

Rick_R

11-30-06, 12:20 PM

I live in a difficult OTA area as I have a 2700' peak 3 miles from me directly in my line of sight to Mt Wilson. However with a lot of work I got all digital channels. KCOP (13.1/digital 66) was one of the best coming in at 90%. Then about two years ago KCOP moved or changed their transmitter and I got KCOP unreliably but occasionally ok. For the past 6 months I have never gotten KCOP at all. Never. I do not know what they did to their transmitter but a reliable digital OTA is apparently not one of their priorities.

Rick R

soundseeker

11-30-06, 01:57 PM

I had this antenna mounted on my satellite dish and its reception ability was essentially equivalent to a coat hanger. Needless to say I was not impressed, so I do not recommend it. If you look a few posts above you'll see my post about the Silver Sensor that gets more channels than the cheap rooftop antenna that my building provides.

Good Luck.
Rudy
Thank You. After searching around here it seems the TV44 is not highly thought of at all. I will give the Silver Sensor a try. Where do you have yours mounted? Indoors or outdoors and how far away from Mt. Wilson are you?

RudyG

11-30-06, 04:17 PM

Thank You. After searching around here it seems the TV44 is not highly thought of at all. I will give the Silver Sensor a try. Where do you have yours mounted? Indoors or outdoors and how far away from Mt. Wilson are you?

I'm in West LA/Santa Monica area and according to antennaweb.org I am around 26 miles from the "signal source" whatever that might be. I initially had my antenna in my living room pointed outside the window that looked eastward. That got me most but not all OTA digital channels. After repointing it in several different direction, changing 2 to 5 degrees each time, I took it outside onto the small patio/ balcony area in front of my apartment and the very same window it pointed out of initially. This allowed me to point the antenna more North-East rather than merely East. This got me all the channels. Although some weaker than others.
It seems like 70% of the channels are located more Eastward than 30% of the channels that are coming from a more Northern direction. So you have to find a delicate middle where you can get them all.

Good Luck.
Rudy

joe221

12-01-06, 11:59 AM

I'm in West LA/Santa Monica area and according to antennaweb.org I am around 26 miles from the "signal source" whatever that might be. I initially had my antenna in my living room pointed outside the window that looked eastward. That got me most but not all OTA digital channels. After repointing it in several different direction, changing 2 to 5 degrees each time, I took it outside onto the small patio/ balcony area in front of my apartment and the very same window it pointed out of initially. This allowed me to point the antenna more North-East rather than merely East. This got me all the channels. Although some weaker than others.
It seems like 70% of the channels are located more Eastward than 30% of the channels that are coming from a more Northern direction. So you have to find a delicate middle where you can get them all.

Good Luck.
Rudy

My living room window faces NE almost exactly and the SilverSensor facing out it gets great reception. Averaging 85-95% accross the range of channels. Nothing from SanDiego though to I'm too far N. (Even if I point S)

Rick_R

12-04-06, 12:58 PM

I pulled out my trusty AAA map of Los Angeles and Vicinity. According to that map Mt Wilson is East Northeast of Santa Monica. That would be half way between directly northeast and due east. Hope this helps.

Rick R

DSperber

12-04-06, 11:40 PM

I need to find the phone number of the KTLA engineer.If you still need to contact someone at KTLA, try 323-460-3917. Greg Johnson (if he's still there).

He was the engineer I talked with quite some back when I was still using my Panny combo and was getting the Spanish audio sub-channel when tuned to 5.1 on my DST50. Obviously the problem was with the old 1998-vintage firmware that had never really been field-tested with real live "multi-casting", something KTLA-DT started doing during primetime... carrying Spanish versions of primetime shows and using the language flag in the metadata.

Somehow the DST50 seemed to be mishandling it and presented 5.1 video with [perhaps] 5.2 audio, and I could not watch their primetime shows in English. I talked with Greg for quite some time about this but he concluded they were doing things right and there was nothing that needed correcting. He was probably right, and my ultimate solution was to get a JVC DT100U to replace the Panny combo... never to have the problem again.

DSperber

12-05-06, 12:01 AM

I don't know if you made the call or not, but the problem was gone last night. I'll check again today, but with any luck it's solved.Got back to LA tonight and tried 4.1/36 on the DT100U. As you predicted, the problem does indeed seem to have now been resolved. Clearly KNBC-DT corrected something (it's amazing they found it on their own!) and the situation is fully back to normal. DT100U once again tunes all OTA channels without any problem.

Thanks for the support.

Case closed.

SD73

12-05-06, 06:51 PM

Got back to LA tonight and tried 4.1/36 on the DT100U. As you predicted, the problem does indeed seem to have now been resolved. Clearly KNBC-DT corrected something (it's amazing they found it on their own!) and the situation is fully back to normal. DT100U once again tunes all OTA channels without any problem.

Thanks for the support.

Case closed.

I doubt it made the difference, but when it first occured I emailed them through their webpage. Maybe enough people figured it out and complained that they finally got their act together.

OC 335i

12-05-06, 08:51 PM

I got a new DVR box DCT6416 and getting error 160 when trying to access On Demand (Select from Channel 1). Also, I cannot access HBO. I have 2 other boxes and they work fine. I called Cox Tech Support and the lady had no idea what she was talking about. She wants to send out a technician. :/

Update, I called and spoke with the automated technician and the automated technician helped me fix the problem when the live agent had no idea what to do. LOL. :rolleyes: :eek:

Rick_R

12-06-06, 01:44 PM

If you still need to contact someone at KTLA, try 323-460-3917. Greg Johnson (if he's still there).

He was the engineer I talked with quite some back when I was still using my Panny combo and was getting the Spanish audio sub-channel when tuned to 5.1 on my DST50. Obviously the problem was with the old 1998-vintage firmware that had never really been field-tested with real live "multi-casting", something KTLA-DT started doing during primetime... carrying Spanish versions of primetime shows and using the language flag in the metadata.

Somehow the DST50 seemed to be mishandling it and presented 5.1 video with [perhaps] 5.2 audio, and I could not watch their primetime shows in English. I talked with Greg for quite some time about this but he concluded they were doing things right and there was nothing that needed correcting. He was probably right, and my ultimate solution was to get a JVC DT100U to replace the Panny combo... never to have the problem again.
Thanks, however I checked last night and KTLA is broadcasting in HD again. Hope it holds out during Smallville.

Rick R

riddim

12-06-06, 06:29 PM

Two quick questions:

1 On what channel #s will I find the local HDTV broadcasts (for ABC, NBC, CBS, any others). If this is already listed elsewhere, please give me the link, thanks

2 Will I need an external HD antenna to pick 'em up? I have a new Panasonic plasma that has a built in HD tuner, which has one Antenna (RF) input, and already, on the QAM frequencies I'm picking up at least one full 1080 HD station (KCET - glorious!) and a few networks in 720. I can tell cause these look so much better than the same ABC, NBC broadcasts in the normal range, where I have regular cable but not an HD package.
Are those QAM versions the best I can get, or can I get full HD for networks, etc., on other channel numbers, if I get an external VHF/UHF antenna and run another Antenna Auto Scan? Note: I'm in the Ojai Valley, downtown, with no great line-of-sight to L.A. or other parts of So.CA, if that's important

joe221

12-07-06, 11:17 AM

Thanks, however I checked last night and KTLA is broadcasting in HD again. Hope it holds out during Smallville.

Rick R

I wonder if the issues relate to what I saw on Wed. on the KTLA Morning Show?? They took us (via a hand held camera) from the old control room to the brand new, fully operational, HD Control room. Could this mean KTLA is counting down to throwing the big red switch to join KABC in broacasting their news in HD??

DSperber

12-07-06, 01:38 PM

On what channel #s will I find the local HDTV broadcasts (for ABC, NBC, CBS, any others).If you're talking about OTA, and you will need an OTA antenna to get these:

CBS 2 = 60
NBC 4 = 36
KTLA/CW 5 = 31
ABC 7 = 53
KCAL 9 = 43
KTTV/FOX 11 = 65
KCOP 13 = 66 (if you can get it)
KCET/PBS 28 = 59

Will I need an external HD antenna to pick 'em up? I have a new Panasonic plasma that has a built in HD tuner, which has one Antenna (RF) inputYes, you will need an external VHF/UHF antenna.

If your HDTV has a built-in OTA ATSC tuner, I'm sure the setup has some kind of "automatic channel scan". Let it do this, and then you can forget about those other higher numbers (in the UHF range). You can continue to think about your existing analog SD channel numbers and the tuner in the set will do the automatic channel mapping of the higher digital channel down to the lower number (with a suffix of ".1") without your having to do anything.

So, for example, your old analog channel 4 will now be new digital channel 4.1 which is really UHF channel 36 (being used to carry the digital NBC content). It's pretty simple.

And if you "hide" or eliminate your old analog channels with the SETUP on the HDTV, then when you use the channel UP/DOWN control on your remote the only channels you'll be presented with will be the new digital/HD channel versions of things.

Whatever the networks broadcast on those digital channels, that's what you'll receive. Video resolution will either be 720p (ABC and FOX) or 1080i for the rest. You'll also have digital audio, either 2-channel stereo or Dolby Digital 2.0/5.1 depending on what the station sends out.

Content will either be full 16x9 filling the entire screen in 720p/1080i, or it will be simply the 720p/1080i digital version of the 4x3 programs being shown on the SD version of the channel with black/gray bars on the left and right of the 4x3 centered content. In either case, you're watching the digital channel so the resolution will still be 720p or 1080i, although depending on the underlying content (and cameras used) you may be watching "digital 4x3 SD", widescreen 16x9 SD, or 16x9 true HD.

Enjoy!

nathan118

12-07-06, 04:42 PM

I've been capturing OTA HD for a few weeks now, but I've just recently been paying attention to errors being reported by mpeg2repair. Unfortunately I get a LOT of errors, sometimes 100-200 video errors in a 30min show.

I'm in South Gate, sort of near big power lines, with an antenna in the attic (two stories). I use a VBOX DTA 150 and beyondtv to schedule. The antenna is an 18 element from radioshack. Testing the signal strength I pull from 3000-8000 mDb. I've tried an 8bay channel master UHF antenna with similar results.

Anyone in the area that can give some help? Thanks!

qwert1515

12-07-06, 06:43 PM

Nathan118,

What channels are you seeing errors on?

nathan118

12-07-06, 10:24 PM

All of them. That leads me to believe it's not a problem with any specific affiliate.

Tonight I've setup to capture the same show on both my vbox dta-150 in the computer, and also on my sony dvr. I'll take the mpeg2repair error log and check it on the sony box and see if I find similar errors. If I can't...it could be a tuner problem.

If that doesn't yield any new info, I've ruled out the tuner, antenna, and attic as major problems. Only other problem I can think of is my location, which obviously can't be changed. Any ideas, I'm open to try things new!

qwert1515

12-08-06, 05:35 PM

nathan118

12-08-06, 07:43 PM

Recently I have been seeing many problems with KCBS from OTA and Time Warner Cable with Mpeg2Repair.

The other channels are ok.

From the Mpeg2Repair logs what are the most common errors you are seeing?

Here's a sample log (http://www.theblarg.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/Law%20&%20Order_%20Special%20Victims%20Unit-(Informed)-2006-12-05-0.txt) . I see all kinds of errors.

qwert1515

12-10-06, 01:09 AM

If you look at the recorded file at a time from the log that has errors do you see picture breakups or errors? Discontinuity errors are usually errors on the recivers end, signal errors.

blazera

12-10-06, 01:20 PM

OK - reception advice time. Setting up HD for Dad in zip 92625 (Newport/Corona del Mar area flatlands - not on the hill), roughly a bit shy of 45 miles to Mt Wilson. Looking to try to use an indoor antenna as much as possible, but if I have to go to an outside antenna, so be it - otherwise it's H20 time for me with D*.

Tried a SS with hit and miss results, so that's going back. My next choice is an Antennas Direct/Terrestrial Digital DB2 - an outdoor antenna, but I've heard it works indoors just as well.

Comments on antenna choice? I've seen Costa Mesa reports with an outdoor antenna and Newport Beach ones with an indoor antenna, so I'm not sure if my next choice of antenna is any good or not.

Also, has anyone succeeded along the OC coast with getting San Diego with an indoor antenna? I figure an outdoor one should be a shoo-in, especially on those days when the salt water coax is working well, but I'm curious.

Thanks in advance!

eldithomaso

12-10-06, 02:37 PM

holl_ands

12-10-06, 09:37 PM

Ok here goes. Anyone here from
Murrieta, CA 92562

I am just north of Clinton Keith Road
East of the I15 by 2.3 miles and
West of the I215 by 2 miles

Exact coordinates are Lat 33.603297, Lon -117.205601
Declination is 12 deg 45' East
About 65 miles south east of Mt. Wilson with some hills about 1 mile due north, and north-east of me and a hill directly south of me, and a hill directly east of me.

Two years ago I got decent reception with out a pre-amp in a valley in the 92562 zip with a 12 foot mounted and un-amplified Winegard 9095 (at lest I got 2 4 and 7 CBS, NBC and ABC digital stations). I did not get KTLA 5 CW or KCAL 9. I did get FOX 11 if I recall also.

For a test case (just got the OTA activated on my D* HR-20 boxes) I started with the following configuration:

With the Radio Shack 40" UHF only antenna

40" Boom Length, 17 Elements Outdoor Antenna for UHF-Only
Model: U-75R | Catalog #: 15-2160

here is my test result
I am not in a "sweet spot" at all. I mounted the antenna on:
- 5 foot mast (about 25 feet up from the ground);
- u-bolted it to my metal hillside fence (temporary rig) on the hill behind my home - the Antenna is taller than my home and the home next to me given this mounting location;
-100 foot (radio shack quad-shieled RG6) and 6 foot generic cable to make it reach my receiver;
- no pre-amp yet (Probably will go find a channel master 4228 and 7777 pre-amp today if they are found at an open store given other recommendations to date);
- aimed it at about 295-300 compass heading (if my declination is 12,45" East do I need to compensate by moving the antenna to 312 or 288 to compensate for the magnetic declination issues? It does not get better even with 10 degress of change either way it seems);
---> I get KTLA 5-1 and 5-5 very clearly (don't know the stregnth) and
I get 34-1 (Latino Station KMEX it think) clearly.

No other stations come in with this configuration.
Anyone agree with the antenna change, pre-amp or have suggestions?
The set- up will eventually be moved to my chimney about 22" off the ground and taller than my neighbor's homes.
My son is about 4 miles East of you, about a mile North of French Valley Airport and currently gets all L.A. stations--
except (lo-rez) KCOP-DT, which seems to be a problematic station for many people.
With Attic mounted antenna, we found a UHF Preamp to be mandatory--and I had to upgrade from 4-Bay to 8-Bay CM-4228 to eliminate most dropouts. Outdoors at 7-foot "test height", Preamp was also mandatory, but we lost half the LA stations. For "fringe" reception, we got lucky and didn't have to hassle with an outdoor antenna.

We were only able to sniff out KSWB-DT from San Diego at ground level, so gave up on S.D. cuz it wouldn't "add" anything and would require a dual antenna or roof-mounted rotator. With a roof-mounted antenna, you may have better luck with San Diego reception.....

=====================================
I've been using the free, downloadable RADIO MOBILE Propagation Prediction Program to calculate fade margin, etc.
http://www.cplus.org/rmw/english1.html
http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/messages/1/2846.html?1126976722
http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/messages/4364/4900.html?1135634429

No doubt due to the nearby hills, your location was calculated to be about 10 dB (+/- 3 dB) WORSE than my son's location out on flat land. So an outdoor, roof-mounted antenna in your location should make the two locations "about even"....cough, cough....

======================================
To find your nearby stations, I punched LAT-LONG into both www.fccinfo.com (lots of other options)
and www.2150.com/broadcast, (checked all four option boxes) and limited search to 20 miles (cuz the site bogs down with BIG searches).

You got a low power (10 kW) station on CH27, which is only 0.7 miles away (on heading 119 deg)
and another low power (10 kW) station on CH21, which is only 3.4 miles away (on heading 115 deg).
A UHF Preamp would be ineffective due to overload desensitization and could even reduce the sensitivity of your HDTV without a Preamp....
There also is a low power (1 kW) repeater for KUSI on VHF CH12 in same location as CH21....which may or may not be limiting sensitivity in the CH2-13 VHF band.....you'll have to treat VHF separately as to whether a VHF/UHF Preamp helps or hurts reception....

So a Preamp isn't going to work unless you can eliminate at least CH27 and preferably also CH21 PRIOR to the Preamp (place between antenna and Preamp)....although be advised that a CH27 filter will also attenuate KVCR-DT on CH26. Currently this is yet another PBS feed which has not yet gone Hi-Def, so no big loss. Here is L.A. station list:
http://radiostationworld.com/Locations/United_States_of_America/California/tv.asp?m=los

I would recommend you start by ordering either a Channel Master JoinTenna (single notch filter on CH27):
http://www.warrenelectronics.com/Antennas/joiners.htm
or a more effective Winegard UT2700 Dual Notch Filter on CH27:
http://www.summitsource.com/winegard-variable-uhf-trap-part-ut2700-ut2700-p-5344.html

You might get lucky with the very high overload Winegard HDP-269 VHF/UHF Preamp:
http://www.summitsource.com/product_info.php?ref=1&products_id=5577
and if you still have problems, the next step would be to add a CH21 JoinTenna or Dual Notch Filter in series with the one for CH27.
High-gain Preamps, such as the CM-7777, are not suitable that close to a nearby transmitter.

To help reduce overload from nearby stations, you might also want to consider upgrading to a higher gain antenna which should also have a very high front-to-back (F/R) ratio, such as the Channel Master CM-4228 you're considering (which also provides gain for CH7-13) or one of the super-yagi's, such as the Antennas Direct XG-91.

=======================================
Sometimes it's hard to determine whether a particular site is using TRUE NORTH (like a map) or COMPASS HEADING (which is about 13-14 degrees to the RIGHT of True North in L.A.).
FYI: I get 311 deg (True North, e.g. on a map) using RADIO MOBILE and www.fccinfo.com
whereas I see about 298 deg (Compass) using www.antennaweb.org.
www.2150.com/broadcast displays Compass heading if you enter your magnetic declination and True North if you enter zero for magnetic declination.

With antenna beamwidths being on the order of twice this delta (or more), and most "eye-ball" pointing measurement errors being even bigger, the ONLY way to tweak the antenna is to slowly rotate it as someone checks the signal quality display. And in your case, you may be searching to point a very narrow "notch" on the rear-facing response of the antenna towards the nearby stations.....so consider a rotator.....

patlintwo

12-12-06, 01:55 AM

RudyG

12-12-06, 04:13 AM

Hi I am new to this site, I read through this thread but could not find the info.

I live in Arcadia foothill and has a clear line-of-dight to Mount Wilson. Using a Terk HD-TVi indoor HDTV antenna, I can pick all the channels listed on AntennaWeb. EXCEPT Fox 11.1.

All of the channels come in crystal clear, I just couldn't figure out how to get Fox HD.

Can someone tell me if they also have this problem and how was it resolved?

Thanks,

Pat

I managed to resolve this by repointing my antenna. Seems like there are a few different angles on which groups of channels come in. So finding the sweet spot that'll bring them all in is laborious and time consuming.
Even after that the reception will fluctuate depending on weather and time of day. :O

Good Luck.
Rudy

dadndudes

12-12-06, 09:15 PM

thecrazykevy

12-12-06, 09:41 PM

Anybody here watching this. KCAL 9.1 is finally broadcasting Laker away games in glorius HD against the Houston Rockets. Some new graphics, excellent picture quality. It's about time KCAL, look forward to more HD games.
Yep, it looks very nice. However, since KCAL only broadcasts road games whether are not the games are in HD would depend on whether or not the arenas have HD cams built in. Arenas like the Staple Center and Toyota Center does but older arenas might not.

The Big Bad

12-13-06, 01:26 PM

I'm looking for an antenna installer in South Orange County (install an OTA either outdoors or, if possible, in the attic, and would need at least one, maybe two, coax lines discretely run)? Does anyone have a recommendation?

dylan24

12-13-06, 01:32 PM

Now that KCAL may be broadcasting Laker games in HD, I'm thinking of getting an antenna for HD-OTA. I have TWC (but of course no KCAL-HD).

People seem to like the Silver Sensor (I have to get an indoor one for now). I live in the Los Feliz area. Would this be the best choice for me?

qwert1515

12-13-06, 06:50 PM

Does anyone know when KCAL started broadcasting Laker games in HD? was it announced, I have had HD OTA for about a year and I have never seen anything in HD on KCAL.

dylan24

12-13-06, 07:51 PM

Does anyone know when KCAL started broadcasting Laker games in HD? was it announced, I have had HD OTA for about a year and I have never seen anything in HD on KCAL.
From perusing the Laker fan sites, it seems like the first game was last night's. KCAL apparently will start broadcasting every game in HD beginning in Jan.

Any antenna recommendations?

fullcourt81

12-14-06, 01:32 AM

From perusing the Laker fan sites, it seems like the first game was last night's. KCAL apparently will start broadcasting every game in HD beginning in Jan.

Any antenna recommendations?

start with the silver sensor. get the one that is not amplified. know that the one I bought from buy.com was a Philips, not a Zenith.
The laker game looked great.

Rick_R

12-14-06, 12:31 PM

Does anyone know when KCAL started broadcasting Laker games in HD? was it announced, I have had HD OTA for about a year and I have never seen anything in HD on KCAL.
KCAL a while ago was broadcasting IMAX programming in HD on Sunday nights. It was stunning eye candy. I have recorded a few of these on DVHS and play them to show off my HDTV.

Rick R

gohd

12-14-06, 05:40 PM

KCAL a while ago was broadcasting IMAX programming in HD on Sunday nights. It was stunning eye candy. I have recorded a few of these on DVHS and play them to show off my HDTV.

Rick R
I remember those HD to the Max shows from a couple years ago. They were on par if not better than some Discovery HD programs. I was thinking the next logical step would be to start showing Laker games in HD, but I didn't expect it'd take them a couple years to start.

blue_z

12-15-06, 02:44 PM

dylan24

12-15-06, 04:27 PM

Hi there

Fry's has the ChannelMaster 8-bay UHF antenna on sale. This is a big, but arguably one of the best, UHF antennas.

Here's a site that compares some antennae:
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html
Thanks for the tip, blue.

I'm looking for an indoor antenna for now, but I'll keep the Channel Master in mind for the future.

I'll probably try the silver sensor.

eldithomaso

12-16-06, 03:21 PM

holl_ands

12-16-06, 05:41 PM

Holl_ands:

Thanks for all the info. So you don't recommend a Pre-amp for San Diego Stations? I don't believe I can get those becuase my South view is blocked by a mountain.

So here is the new configuration - I purchased a Channel Master 4228 and will try to mount it on my hill tomorrow (if it's not pouring) without the pre-amp.
I also purchased a CM 3041 pre-amp and can try with and without that (i can't find the 7777 anywhere locally).

So far with the inexpensive Radio Shack antenna I still have only 5-1 and 5-5 and 34-1 with 30-40% max reception and no amplifier. The rest are dark. This is with a D* HR-20 with OTA active and a 100' Radioshack Quad Shielded cable run + 6 feet more in house).

Sounds like the 4228 with pre-amp may work in the Attic. I never even thought of that. I will also try and overshoot my 298 degree compass heading to get 311 degrees and adjust for reception. My wife loves having to watch the TV while I do this adjusting.

I definately don't have flat land since I am in the hills. I will have to get some low res photos to post.
CM3041 is high gain, just like CM7777---so I expect that it will be overloaded, which means that the sensitivity
for some channels will be limited by intermod products and perhaps others won't be....
Sure wish Fry's would carry the (low-gain/very high overload) Winegard HDP-269:
http://www.summitsource.com/winegard-hdp269-digital-tv-antenna-preamplifier-square-shooter-amplifier-digital-12-db-gain-vhf-uhf-outdoor-offair-signal-local-tv-aerial-12-vdc-75-ohm-part-hdp269-p-5577.html

When you point the antenna towards Mt Wilson, the nearby stations are attenuated by the CM-4228's rear screen,
plus attenuation by the above recommended Notch Filters (or JoinTennas)....which may just barely suppress the nearby stations
so that a (preferably low-gain/high overload) Preamp isn't desensitized.

When you point towards San Diego, nearby stations will be attenuated by whatever the sidelobe gain is directed in their direction,
which may or may not be enough suppression, even with the above recommended Notch Filters (which can only do so much....)
Of course, the only way to find out is to try it via trial and error.....and would need a rotator to find the "sweet spot",
with antenna null(s) towards the undesired stations (both of them) and more or less high gain towards each desired San Diego station.

PS: I doubt you will get reliable reception from San Diego without a Preamp.

holl_ands

12-16-06, 05:47 PM

From perusing the Laker fan sites, it seems like the first game was last night's. KCAL apparently will start broadcasting every game in HD beginning in Jan.

Any antenna recommendations?
You didn't say where you were located and whether you were limited to indoor or attic antennas.

Silver Sensor is an indoor antenna that is unsuited for distant, fringe reception, where the CM4228 excels.....

gilberto1

12-19-06, 08:35 PM

MacFly69

12-19-06, 08:42 PM

There have been discussions about KCAL 9 broadcasting laker road games in HD. Is there a definitive schedule for the HD games? For example, is tonight's game broadcast in HD? (I would flip the tv on to see, but I am not at home)

i'm watching it right now and unfortunately, it's not!

one of the games last wk was in fact in HD, but that was the only time!

gilberto1

12-19-06, 08:51 PM

i'm watching it right now and unfortunately, it's not!

one of the games last wk was in fact in HD, but that was the only time!

that stinks, i was hoping to have it waiting for me on tivo. so is it just luck of the draw?

jiggaman2

12-20-06, 01:16 AM

I am thinking about purchasing a new TV with a QAM tuner. Does the SFV (Chatsworth area) get any QAM channels? I can get the locals with my Sony KDFE-50A10 fine but would rather get the channels through the QAM tuner if i get a new TV.

Thanks.

joe221

12-20-06, 01:38 AM

joekun

12-20-06, 06:45 AM

Do any local stores carry the Silver Sensor? I'm in the same situation as dylan24 and also in Los Feliz. I would like to try the Silver Sensor to see if it would work for me but would like to be able to return it if I need to go with an outdoor antenna.

Rick_R

12-20-06, 12:28 PM

A month ago I saw the Silver Sensor at the Circuit City in Woodland Hills. They had both the unamplified UHF version and an amplified UHF/VHF version.

Rick R

RudyG

12-20-06, 02:07 PM

A month ago I saw the Silver Sensor at the Circuit City in Woodland Hills. They had both the unamplified UHF version and an amplified UHF/VHF version.

Rick R

Yup Circuit City should have it. It's under the Phillips brand and is around $25.

Rudy

joekun

12-20-06, 02:49 PM

Perfect, thanks!

dylan24

12-20-06, 04:22 PM

Thanks guys! I was going to use amazon but as joekun says it makes more sense to go b&m just in case of the need to return.

joekun

12-20-06, 06:40 PM

Got my Silver Sensor (live just a couple blocks from CC) and was disappointed with the results. Channel 18 comes in really well at about 90%, Channel 44 bounces between 45-60%, and 58 about the same. The rest of the channels don't give me anything on the signal meter at all. It seems I will have to go with an outdoor antenna to get all the channels. But what I don't understand is how channel 18 comes in so strong and others don't given that they're all over on Mt. Wilson. Unfortunately all of my windows face west and Mt Wilson is NE of me.

BTW all the channels I'm getting show as red on antennaweb.org, I'm not picking up a single yellow or green channel. Weird.

blue_z

12-21-06, 12:58 AM

But what I don't understand is how channel 18 comes in so strong and others don't given that they're all over on Mt. Wilson.

The direction is only one factor in good reception.
Have you ever seen an antenna gain chart (reception versus channels)?
An antenna does not capture all channels equally well.

And if your antenna is facing west, then you're probably picking up a reflection of ch18. That reflector works best for ch18's frequency, and not as good for the other channels.

What's your NTSC UHF reception like? If KCET/28 and/or KCET/50 are not clear, then ATSC reception could be difficult

BTW the reception info from antennaweb.org isn't valid if you're on the wrong side of the building.

Regards

dmanko

12-21-06, 03:57 AM

RudyG

12-21-06, 05:31 AM

I recently purchased the Pioneer 1140 plasma and am trying to make a decision on whether to upgrade my current Dish service to the HD DVR or make a switch to Direct tV. In the meantime, i would like to use OTA signal to enjoy the benefits of HDTV.

I live in West los Angeles (90034 zip). Based on the antennaweb.org website I am approx 22 - 23 mile from the tower. Orientation of channels is between 41 to 45. The required antenna type was yellow - small multi directional.

There is a few of us here from West LA. However, my zip code is 90025. Congrats on the new TV.
Currently there is a large roof antenna on the house (was there when we purchased the house - I do not have any info on it). I managed to find where this was coming into the house and ran a cable (about 50ft) from the outlet to the current location of the TV. I was able to get a lot of channels but many are pixelated and broken (most importantly for me ABC and CBS). I used the TV menu to evaluate the signal strength - which came in only at 20.

At signal strength of 20 you should not see any picture. For my TV the signal strength has to be close to 50 to see any picture, albeit pixelated.
I tried going up on the roof to see if I could adjust the positioning (rotate) of the antenna. I was not able to - I did not see any mechanism which would allow one to rotate the antenna. I think that if I proceed with this exisitng antenna I will have to get a professional to move it.

Hmm that's odd. Generally the rooftop antennas are erected using mounts. The mounts tend to be on the bottom and have clips that are tightened by using the nut and a bolt. Here is a link to different kinds of mounting systems: http://www.solidsignal.tv/cat_display.asp?main_cat=03&CAT=Mounting%20Supplies
Is it worth the expense of getting someone in to try make this antenna work optimally or should I just switch out to a "cheap" indoor antennae.

Definitely not an advice I would normally give. As I posted a couple of times before. I live in an apartment building that supplies a rooftop antenna. The Silver Sensor that I purchased was able to beat by the number of channels that it receives. However, pointing it was a laborious and time consuming exercise. Even though all the stations are on Mt. Wilson not all of them are transmitted at the same angle. And for a highly directional antenna like Silver Sensor that makes a big difference. Meaning if you point to far North you'll loose one set of channels and if you point too far East you'll lose another set of channels. So you have to try try and try until you hit the sweet spot. Additionally during the day the reception is not as good as in the evening. And when the weather is bad outside the same holds true.
Any and all advise help is appreciated.

Thanks

My biggest advice would be to read this entire thread. :) There is some really useful information here.

Good Luck.
Rudy

joekun

12-21-06, 05:49 AM

And if your antenna is facing west, then you're probably picking up a reflection of ch18.
It's actually pointed NE, it's just not pointed out a window. It's pointed at a wall across the room. If I point it west I don't even get channel 18.

What's your NTSC UHF reception like?
Not sure, never had any use for it.

Don't really know anything about antennas and how they work, I just thought I would either get most of the channels or not get any of them since they're all pretty much in the same place.

I will probably just return the silver sensor and wait on OTA as DirecTV has now added the CW in HD to their lineup within the last week or so. I'll revisit OTA a little later since it's not as much of a priority now.

dylan24

12-21-06, 04:54 PM

Sorry to hear about that joekun. I was thinking of getting the silver sensor myself.

Does anyone know if the last couple KCAL Laker games have been in hi-def? If they weren't I might hold off on getting the silver sensor myself until I know they are consistently broadcasting the games in hi-def.

joekun, whereabouts in Los Feliz are you? You can pm me the info if you don't want to post it.

qwert1515

12-21-06, 08:52 PM

The last few have not been in HD.

thecrazykevy

12-22-06, 01:32 AM

The last few have not been in HD.
I think the Houston Game was in HD because the local Houston channel was broadcasting the game in HD and KCAL 9 was using the same feed. Since KCAL only broadcast road games whether or not the games could be in HD would depend on whether or no the stadium have HD cams built in.

joe221

12-22-06, 12:02 PM

Looks like KTLA goes full HD (News) in January. Mark Kriski just mentioned that on the Morning Show.

TheRock

12-27-06, 12:43 AM

No HD for ABC tonight. Guess the special news bulletins about Former President Ford messed everything up. You would think they would be able to fix it quickly (one commercial break) but I guess not.

openwheelracing

12-29-06, 12:59 AM

question:

I live in Rancho Cucamonga now. I used to be able to get great reception in Upland with a Silver Sensor pointing directly at Mt Wilson. (That was a 2nd floor apartment).

Now I have to point the antenna towards the north-east to get good reception. Why is that? I am happy I can get 90% reception on all channels, but this is after days of experimentation pointing the antennat towards Mt Wilson. Then finally out of desperation I point the antenna almost due east (roughly 80 degrees) and found great reception. I have line of sight towards the east, but not the west. Can someone shed some light on me?

benway

12-31-06, 05:26 PM

anyone else having reception problems with fox? 11.1 started yesterday [saturday 12/30]

thanks

gohd

12-31-06, 05:30 PM

anyone else having reception problems with fox? 11.1 started yesterday [saturday 12/30]

thanks
No probs in Artesia/Cerritos area. If you're worried about the poor PQ of the Chargers/Cards game, that's just how it is...not very good.

dotheDVDeed

01-01-07, 10:23 AM

Can a program stream be starved enough that it makes it difficult to tune?

I'm waiting to watch the Rose Parade in all it's HDTV goodness, but the unfortunately the pre-show is being broadcast in KTLA's patented standard def stretch vision.

So I flipped over to The Tube that's on the 5.5 subchannel it's keeps on cutting in and out and it's pretty pixelated. Normally I don't have any trouble tuning it on my Sony SAT-HD100

TIM

benway

01-01-07, 10:26 AM

my best guess would be that you are getting a reflection of the signal from a nearby building perhaps

however, if it works...

hope that helps

question:

I live in Rancho Cucamonga now. I used to be able to get great reception in Upland with a Silver Sensor pointing directly at Mt Wilson. (That was a 2nd floor apartment).

Now I have to point the antenna towards the north-east to get good reception. Why is that? I am happy I can get 90% reception on all channels, but this is after days of experimentation pointing the antennat towards Mt Wilson. Then finally out of desperation I point the antenna almost due east (roughly 80 degrees) and found great reception. I have line of sight towards the east, but not the west. Can someone shed some light on me?

benway

01-01-07, 10:29 AM

I figured out my 11-1 FOX reception issue

last year a very large tree in my building was severely trimmed back

it changed my reception entirely and I had to move my antenna

it has now grown back [enough ] and the first channel it affected was FOX

I moved the antenna back to its original position and reception is fine now

dotheDVDeed

01-01-07, 10:46 AM

....but the unfortunately the pre-show is being broadcast in KTLA's patented standard def stretch vision.

TIM
(Can you quote yourself? hmmm)

Doesn't this "stretch vision" bug anyone else? If I want it stretched I'll do it myself.

I was disappointed that the pre-show was standard def. I thought with the rumors that the new year would bring high definition to KTLA's news (morning and evening?) that we'd be seeing some changes on KTLA.

TIM

joe221

01-01-07, 11:27 AM

eldithomaso

01-01-07, 05:19 PM

CM3041 is high gain, just like CM7777---so I expect that it will be overloaded, which means that the sensitivity
for some channels will be limited by intermod products and perhaps others won't be....
Sure wish Fry's would carry the (low-gain/very high overload) Winegard HDP-269:
http://www.summitsource.com/winegard-hdp269-digital-tv-antenna-preamplifier-square-shooter-amplifier-digital-12-db-gain-vhf-uhf-outdoor-offair-signal-local-tv-aerial-12-vdc-75-ohm-part-hdp269-p-5577.html

When you point the antenna towards Mt Wilson, the nearby stations are attenuated by the CM-4228's rear screen,
plus attenuation by the above recommended Notch Filters (or JoinTennas)....which may just barely suppress the nearby stations
so that a (preferably low-gain/high overload) Preamp isn't desensitized.

When you point towards San Diego, nearby stations will be attenuated by whatever the sidelobe gain is directed in their direction,
which may or may not be enough suppression, even with the above recommended Notch Filters (which can only do so much....)

Of course, the only way to find out is to try it via trial and error.....and would need a rotator to find the "sweet spot",
with antenna null(s) towards the undesired stations (both of them) and more or less high gain towards each desired San Diego station.

PS: I doubt you will get reliable reception from San Diego without a Preamp.

holl_ands:

Thanks for all of the suggestions. Yesterday I tried the ChannelMaster 4228 and preamp 3041. They produce a signal - but except for CBS and sometimes Fox and KMEX 34- are virtually unwatchable from the Attic. More channels are visible - i.e. Fox, ABC, but no reception on KTLA (that I received with a Radioshack directional 40 element) and still no CBS at all.

Looks like even with the pre-amp I am limted to an outdoor solution. Oh well, now to find an installer who can put up an antenna on a house or a tower in Murrieta.

joe221

01-02-07, 12:05 PM

KTLA aired a full commercial touting their switch to full HD as if it already happened. To para-quote a great Kahzhak, "you, not so much." KTLA is still in glorious stretch mode. It would have been nice to put a start date in the ad, but that would be helpful. :rolleyes:

mamuco

01-02-07, 01:23 PM

I cant wait until KTLA goes HD for news. we love the 10 pm news over any other news in LA. followed only by the 11 pm news on KNBC. I sometimes watch KABC news but just because iis mostly in HD.

I live in the Pasadena area. saw the first 40 min of the Rose parade in HD in KTLA, the rest live on Colorado Boulevard, sans comments on who is who etc. and the dragon wasnt spitting fire once i got the the live parade.

In any case we have Charter and their HD content is more then lacking, I refuse to pay an extra $ 6 just for discovery hd and espn. (who is watching TNT HD anyhow?)

Looked into dish for more HD channels but its the same price if i take their gold package as i pay now and then all times are east coast - yuk.

PJO1966

01-02-07, 01:25 PM

I watched the pre-parade stuff on KTLA, but it wasn't stretched, it was OAR with black bars on the sides. :confused:

MadDev

01-02-07, 02:32 PM

If you're talking about OTA, and you will need an OTA antenna to get these:

CBS 2 = 60
NBC 4 = 36
KTLA/CW 5 = 31
ABC 7 = 53
KCAL 9 = 43
KTTV/FOX 11 = 65
KCOP 13 = 66 (if you can get it)
KCET/PBS 28 = 59

Yes, you will need an external VHF/UHF antenna.

If your HDTV has a built-in OTA ATSC tuner, I'm sure the setup has some kind of "automatic channel scan". Let it do this, and then you can forget about those other higher numbers (in the UHF range). You can continue to think about your existing analog SD channel numbers and the tuner in the set will do the automatic channel mapping of the higher digital channel down to the lower number (with a suffix of ".1") without your having to do anything.

So, for example, your old analog channel 4 will now be new digital channel 4.1 which is really UHF channel 36 (being used to carry the digital NBC content). It's pretty simple.

And if you "hide" or eliminate your old analog channels with the SETUP on the HDTV, then when you use the channel UP/DOWN control on your remote the only channels you'll be presented with will be the new digital/HD channel versions of things.

Whatever the networks broadcast on those digital channels, that's what you'll receive. Video resolution will either be 720p (ABC and FOX) or 1080i for the rest. You'll also have digital audio, either 2-channel stereo or Dolby Digital 2.0/5.1 depending on what the station sends out.

Content will either be full 16x9 filling the entire screen in 720p/1080i, or it will be simply the 720p/1080i digital version of the 4x3 programs being shown on the SD version of the channel with black/gray bars on the left and right of the 4x3 centered content. In either case, you're watching the digital channel so the resolution will still be 720p or 1080i, although depending on the underlying content (and cameras used) you may be watching "digital 4x3 SD", widescreen 16x9 SD, or 16x9 true HD.

Enjoy!

That is good information. I have a quick question... I am in OC and eventhough I can recieve the analog fine, I cannot seem to tune ABC and CBS in HD. I do get NBC and KCAL w/o any issues. I have an outdoor med. range antenna, so it seems that I can pull it in, however, those two channels mentioned are giving me some fits. Do I need to adjust the direction? Any comments appreciated.

narkspud

01-03-07, 11:52 AM

(Can you quote yourself? hmmm)

Doesn't this "stretch vision" bug anyone else? If I want it stretched I'll do it myself.

I was disappointed that the pre-show was standard def. I thought with the rumors that the new year would bring high definition to KTLA's news (morning and evening?) that we'd be seeing some changes on KTLA.

TIM

Drives me bananas. I ranted about it on this very thread about a year ago. The response I got from other posters was that ranting about it only got them upset, so they stopped worrying about it and went on with their lives.

I ended up doing the same thing. But I also sent a snail mail to their program director to complain. Much to my astonishment (snort), I never heard back.

I don't care much for the lesser but still annoying stretch on KABC's standard def stuff either.

I watched the pre-parade stuff on KTLA, but it wasn't stretched, it was OAR with black bars on the sides.

There are black bars (actually dark grey) on the sides of KTLA's standard def upconverts, but they are much narrower than they're supposed to be. KTLA deliberately and maliciously stretches their SD video horizontally to fill more (though not all) of the screen. Amazing how making stupid people happy is now more important than good broadcasting practice.

I did not see the pre-parade stuff, nor have I watched much TV since the 1st, so perhaps they've made a New Year's Resolution to quit distorting their picture?

Naaaaaaah.

ChummyChuck

01-04-07, 04:17 AM

Whats with KNBC4?

Last week I noticed the signal went out between 8:00PM and 8:17PM now tonight their signal is out completely.

joe221

01-04-07, 10:43 AM

"We're going HD next week, err, am I allowed to say that?"
With that Mark Kriski announces KTLA's move to HD. They also showed off the new "SkyCam-5 Telecopter HD" on the ground at Van Nuys Airport. It's orange and way cool. I think it's a Sikorski but am not a Helli-expert. Maybe someone else knows better. I think the old blue one was an A-Star.

Cokeswigga

01-04-07, 04:39 PM

holl_ands:

Thanks for all of the suggestions. Yesterday I tried the ChannelMaster 4228 and preamp 3041. They produce a signal - but except for CBS and sometimes Fox and KMEX 34- are virtually unwatchable from the Attic. More channels are visible - i.e. Fox, ABC, but no reception on KTLA (that I received with a Radioshack directional 40 element) and still no CBS at all.

Looks like even with the pre-amp I am limted to an outdoor solution. Oh well, now to find an installer who can put up an antenna on a house or a tower in Murrieta.
I am down in temecula, and I have no problem getting L.A. Stations with my Winegard HD-9095 with a AR-4700 pre-amp.

CBS is the strongest to pull in.

My antenna is about 10' up from the highest point of my roof.

Albie1200

01-05-07, 06:33 PM

kepper

01-05-07, 09:38 PM

Patdeisa

01-05-07, 09:50 PM

That is good information. I have a quick question... I am in OC and eventhough I can recieve the analog fine, I cannot seem to tune ABC and CBS in HD. I do get NBC and KCAL w/o any issues. I have an outdoor med. range antenna, so it seems that I can pull it in, however, those two channels mentioned are giving me some fits. Do I need to adjust the direction? Any comments appreciated.
Thanks for the post- I don't feel so bad about not getting ABC or CBS...

I'm about 100 miles line of sight north of Mt. Wilson behind a 4000 foot mountain (elevation 2300), and I get digital NBC, CW, and KCET in most of the time with few to no problems. I was hoping to get ABC, as I watch a bit of their programming, but it's a no go with my indoor amplified antenna (a regular Philips TV VHF/UHF one with an advertised 30dB gain). Do you guys think a Silver Sensor might work better? I rent and will be moving within 6 months, so no attic or rooftop antenna for me. Also, how do you tell the signal strength you've been posting?

Cokeswigga

01-06-07, 07:50 PM

Here is my current Setup:

Winegard HD-9095 with AP-4700 Preamp.

I live in southwest riverside, and I have my antenna aimed at Los Angeles' Mt. Wilson Antenna farm. It's about a 70 mile journey as the bird flys from my antenna to the transmission antennas

I am able to tune in all L.A. Channels.

Primarily these are the stations of interest
Channel**********UHF*****Strength with AP4700****Strength with 4800
002-1 (CBS Digital)**60**********96********************94
004-1 (NBC Digital)**36**********79********************73
007-1 (ABC Digital)**53**********77********************56
011-1 (Fox Digital)***65*********78********************74

I just bought an AP4800 (higher gain pre-amp)
I was hoping that with the 4800, I would get better signal strength on all the channels.

Instead I saw the opposite. I lost a few points. No big deal, I attributed it to the increased noise of the pre-amp or something.

But what really caught my eye what I totally lost channel 53 (kabc-DT 007-1)

Now, here's a little history.
I used to have a Dish Network 811.
With the 811 I had all kinds of problems tuning in ABC.
What I found was that I turned my antenna 90 degrees to the west and point it at a nearby mountain, I could get kabc, but at a low signal (~60). So I attributed the inability to tune in KABC to multipath from the mountain. BUT it only affected this one channel!!! None of the other channels had any problem of signal issues.

So I turned my antenna back to pointing straigh at mt wilson, and just accepeted that I would have to move or blow up the mountain, or wait until a better ota receiver came out.

Low an behold, a little patience paid off. (and since blowing up a mountain would probably piss off a bunch of people), I upgraded to the Dish Network 622... which has a much better OTA receiver. All of a sudden I was able to tune KABC without any trouble.

Now today..... my questions are:

1.) Why did I not see much of change at all on all the channels with a higher gain pre-amp?

2.) Why does the higher gain pre-amp significantly effect the one channel (possible multipath)?

3.) Why does only the one channel have this problem with multipath??

Or am I totally off my assumptions..

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Cokeswigga

01-06-07, 07:50 PM

Oops... Report

holl_ands

01-06-07, 08:33 PM

Just wanted to say thanks for all the input on a OTA antenna. I live in Newport Beach (on the hill by High school), and I am using the Radio shack 15-2160, no amp on a pvc stand on my roof (antenna is about 10' above ground level) pointed in a slight upward angle. My signal is generally around 60-80 with mid 70's being the norm. My next door neighbors have some trees that are about 8 feet above my roof line, but are about 70' away from the antenna (the antenna is pointed at the tops of the trees). The E* installer said the signal was good enough, but on some channels I do get a brief breakup every once in a while(once every couple of hours). Do you guys think a pre amp would max out my signal and prevent all breakups? What about this overloading the signal I hear people talking about, would that effect me?

Thanks for helping someone that knows little about all this stuff.
If you mean Newport Harbor H.S., it's at 30-ft elevation, which means the signal has to
diffract down off of that 100-ft high hill.
It that is your situation, first thing to try is to get the antenna up as high as possible,
bearing in mind that there may be sweet spots that vary with height....

Most HDTV's have a Noise Figure of about 7-10 dB (sensitivity measurement, lower is better).
If your HDTV has a Dual Tuner for PIP, the internal 2-way RF Splitter will increase NF by another 4 dB.
And each time you add an external 2-way RF splitter, NF increases 4 dB (4-way splitter is 8 dB).
Any other losses, including the downlead coax (best RG-6 is 3-5 dB per 100-ft, increasing with frequency).
So even if you only had one 2-way RF Splitter and 50-ft of RG-6, the Noise Figure is at least 13 dB....

There can be several dB of additional loss of DTV sensitivity due to VSWR mismatches
between the antenna and the HDTV (see O. Bendov's et. al. IEEE articles):
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5399965&#post5399965
http://www.tvantenna.tv/papers/PFactorsV.pdf

A Preamp (typical NF of 3 to 6 dB) attaches directly to the antenna with a well-matched load
to minimize VSWR desensitization. Cable and RF Splitter loss AFTER the Preamp has only a minor effect
on the overall System NF, since the contribution is REDUCED by the amount of gain in the Preamp.

So, a Preamp typically has a 10 dB or higher sensitivity advantage, but only if there are no "nearby" stations
degrading sensitivity with their intermodulation products.
BTW, lower gain Preamps (like the W-G HDP-269) provide the best protection against intermod desensitization....
Which shouldn't be a problem in your location, with no nearby TV stations....

holl_ands

01-06-07, 09:20 PM

Here is my current Setup:

Winegard HD-9095 with AP-4700 Preamp.

I live in southwest riverside, and I have my antenna aimed at Los Angeles' Mt. Wilson Antenna farm. It's about a 70 mile journey as the bird flys from my antenna to the transmission antennas

I am able to tune in all L.A. Channels.

Primarily these are the stations of interest
Channel**********UHF*****Strength with AP4700****Strength with 4800
002-1 (CBS Digital)**60**********96********************94
004-1 (NBC Digital)**36**********79********************73
007-1 (ABC Digital)**53**********77********************56
011-1 (Fox Digital)***65*********78********************74

I just bought an AP4800 (higher gain pre-amp)
I was hoping that with the 4800, I would get better signal strength on all the channels.

Instead I saw the opposite. I lost a few points. No big deal, I attributed it to the increased noise of the pre-amp or something.

But what really caught my eye what I totally lost channel 53 (kabc-DT 007-1)

With the 811 I had all kinds of problems tuning in ABC.
What I found was that I turned my antenna 90 degrees to the west and point it at a nearby mountain, I could get kabc, but at a low signal (~60). So I attributed the inability to tune in KABC to multipath from the mountain. BUT it only affected this one channel!!! None of the other channels had any problem of signal issues.

I upgraded to the Dish Network 622... which has a much better OTA receiver. All of a sudden I was able to tune KABC without any trouble.

1.) Why did I not see much of change at all on all the channels with a higher gain pre-amp?

2.) Why does the higher gain pre-amp significantly effect the one channel (possible multipath)?

3.) Why does only the one channel have this problem with multipath??

There are several factors which can affect one station more than another:
1. Multipath structure may be different due to different freq, geometry and topography.
2. Ditto signal strength due to path loss and various cable & RF Splitter losses.
3. Antenna gain and interference/multipath suppression characteristics.
4. Co-Channel, Adjacent and Next-Adjacent Channel Interference (Newer ATSC Receivers have higher immunity).
5. Intermodulation Products that are stronger on some channels than others (Higher gain Preamp can make these worse).

More than one of these may be at work here......

RudyG

01-06-07, 09:44 PM

.......
Also, how do you tell the signal strength you've been posting?

Most HDTVs have a menu option that will allow you to see the signal strength, coming into the television. You have to consult your TV manual to find it, or poke around the different submenus of your TV.

Rudy

blazera

01-08-07, 02:53 AM

If you mean Newport Harbor H.S., it's at 30-ft elevation, which means the signal has to diffract down off of that 100-ft high hill.
It that is your situation, first thing to try is to get the antenna up as high as possible, bearing in mind that there may be sweet spots that vary with height....

I doubt the OP is near Newport Harbor High, as there really isn't a hill near there with homes on it. He could be near Corona del Mar HS (roughly 33.631747, -117.875225), as there is a populated hillside area across Eastbluff Dr, as well as on the other side of the Jamboree Rd/Ford Rd intersection. Or he could be near the Sage Hill School in Newport Coast (33.617049, -117.825734).

Regarding the occasional breakups, exactly when during the day are they happening? If he's in Eastbluff (as I suspect, since he mentioned trees that are likely mature - probably on Alta Vista Dr, Bison Ave, or somewhere close by), I'm wondering if he's getting some signal interference being close to the takeoff (or landing, depending on the winds) pattern at John Wayne? (I went to high school at CDM and vaguely remember how loud the jet noise was when we were out on the athletic fields during practice.) Granted that the commercial flights have the steep takeoffs nowadays, but they could affect signal since that would be within the antenna's line of sight to Mt Wilson. Combine that with the pattern of breakups he's experiencing on his TV, and we may have the explanation.

If that is the cause of the signal breakups, I'm not sure if there's anything that could be done about it, short of moving.

Albie1200

01-08-07, 01:31 PM

I doubt the OP is near Newport Harbor High, as there really isn't a hill near there with homes on it. He could be near Corona del Mar HS (roughly 33.631747, -117.875225), as there is a populated hillside area across Eastbluff Dr, as well as on the other side of the Jamboree Rd/Ford Rd intersection. Or he could be near the Sage Hill School in Newport Coast (33.617049, -117.825734).

Regarding the occasional breakups, exactly when during the day are they happening? If he's in Eastbluff (as I suspect, since he mentioned trees that are likely mature - probably on Alta Vista Dr, Bison Ave, or somewhere close by), I'm wondering if he's getting some signal interference being close to the takeoff (or landing, depending on the winds) pattern at John Wayne? (I went to high school at CDM and vaguely remember how loud the jet noise was when we were out on the athletic fields during practice.) Granted that the commercial flights have the steep takeoffs nowadays, but they could affect signal since that would be within the antenna's line of sight to Mt Wilson. Combine that with the pattern of breakups he's experiencing on his TV, and we may have the explanation.

If that is the cause of the signal breakups, I'm not sure if there's anything that could be done about it, short of moving.

Sorry my location description was a bit confusing. It is Newport Harbor High school I live by, Margaret Dr. 92663 to be exact. By "on the hill", I meant I did not live down on the peninsula.

The airport probably would not have a effect on my reception as the take-offs and landings(Santa ana winds or not) are always to the south west of my house. The break ups don't happen too much. Just one over the weekend watching football(Philly game). Fox is usually in the low 70's, others in the high 70 low 80's, but KCAL I think is in the 90's, so my signal strength varies a bit.

Holl_ands: Thank you for the solution, but you kinda a lost me. I am very much a novice when it comes to this stuff. Maybe a better description of my set up will help. The antenna is this: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103088&cp=&origkw=uhf+antenna&kw=uhf+antenna&parentPage=search
with a 300ohm ribbon wire type connector (told you I was a novice) attached to RG-6 coax I got at the depot (average grade not sure if quad shielded). This coax goes about 60' with the only break in the line being the grounding block about 50' from the antenna where it enters the house. From there it goes into my E* 622 DVR, and then HDMI to my Vizio VX37. The TV does have PIP, but the OTA antenna does not go into the ATSC input on the TV. Would that make a difference?

After watching the most OTA programming this weekend that I have since getting the TV, I would have to say that the break-ups really are only 1-2 times a day for about 15 seconds. I do believe when I made the first post I was watching when we were having those pretty strong winds, and that resulted in the more than average break-ups.

So do you guys think I should just live with my current situation, go with that W-G HDP-269 pre-amp, or maybe recommend something else?

Thanks for everyones help. You have all unknowingly been a great help by reading this 81 page thread (yes every post!), for this is how I decided on the antenna to buy.

Patdeisa

01-08-07, 09:00 PM

Most HDTVs have a menu option that will allow you to see the signal strength, coming into the television. You have to consult your TV manual to find it, or poke around the different submenus of your TV.

Rudy
Rudy- thanks a lot! I didn't know that (and found it). It'll definitely help out trying to get stations with my antenna.

My next question is about AGC. What am I looking for here? It's in the low 30s for the stations I receive, and 40+ for those that I don't.

RudyG

01-09-07, 01:24 AM

Rudy- thanks a lot! I didn't know that (and found it). It'll definitely help out trying to get stations with my antenna.

My next question is about AGC. What am I looking for here? It's in the low 30s for the stations I receive, and 40+ for those that I don't.

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will answer that, until then, I'd like to toss out there that AGC is probably not the most important indicator. The Signal Strength is what is going to drive everything. The SNR or Signal to Noise Ratio and the AGC whatever that might be, are generally the result of the signal strength. On my TV a signal strength close to 50 will show me the picture.

Rudy

Too Many Secrets

01-09-07, 11:10 AM

In 90022 I'm having problems getting 5.1 & 5.5, KTLA, consistently. I'm using MythTV with a Zenith SS and can see a 90% + signal each time I tune. However I inconsistently get a "LOCK".

Any suggestions for fine tuning with a solid signal indication? I get every other channel just fine, never trouble getting a LOCK. It only effects KTLA.

TIA

NemesisCBR

01-10-07, 06:06 AM

Two nights ago i decided to make another attempt at getting reception for my Mitsubishi DLP after testing out amplified indoor antennas at work on the same tv.

My first attempt after getting the tv in about 2 months ago had poor results. I wasnt surprised however because i live in the hills on San Pedro where pretty much nobody gets any reception. I got a few channels in using a Terk uhf/vhf antenna similar in design to the Silver Sensor everyone talks about here, but of course they were fuzzed and hard to watch but what i could see through the noise was potentially clear analog stations. No digital. I gave up that idea and intended to wait until i was ready to get satelite like my original plan was.

After testing out two RCA amplified antennas at work to see which was the better antenna, i was impressed with the results being that it was underground and i was able to pick up a few digital stations. I also found that the Mitsubishi tuner seemed to pick up more than Sony's, but thats for another thread. At the time i didnt know that all the digital stations in LA were switched to UHF and that was the reason for one antenna working better than the other until i went home and did quick research. Still i was skeptical about getting anything better then what i was receiving now. Figured i might just get a little more visibility while retaining noise on the screen. To my surprise i actually picked up a few (well, more than a few) digital stations.

TRYING to keep this short, i tinkered around a bit and ended up getting most of the digital stations to at least read on the screen. 2.1, 4.1, 4.2, and 5.4 seemed to come in the strongest. This was all done next to the tv and in the end i ran a line about 15 ft so that i could place the flat antenna at the window. This resulted in a better signal and the other channels then came in. However, a few are weaker signals so i get loss of picture or pixilation and now my goal is to find better equipment to obtain solid signal for a majority of the time. My problem is i live in a condo and my bedroom window points west. Currently my indoor antenna sits in that window.

Current antenna: http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&pid=05760039000&cat=Televisions&subcat=TV+Accessories&vertical=ELEC&ihtoken=1

Previous antenna: http://www.audiovox.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=14122&langId=-1

Going to do some more testing. Any advice? Im going to take some shots of how my picture comes out. Caught some football in hd the other day and it was spectacular.

One other thing. If all i care about is digital and i dont really bother with the analog, do the vhf dipoles really need to be extended and used?

RudyG

01-10-07, 04:33 PM

.......
I got a few channels in using a Terk uhf/vhf antenna similar in design to the Silver Sensor everyone talks about here, ........................

According to member postings here that appears to be not the case. The Terk antenna that you have does not appear to be as good as the Silver Sensor, as far as UHF channel reception.

Rudy

The Big Bad

01-10-07, 04:44 PM

Re: the Terk HDTVa (amplified) indoor antenna (what I believe is being referred to as a Silver Sensor clone), I've experimented with it down here in Mission Viejo and it has been the best performer out of the indoor antennas that I have tried. I'm essentially 50 miles from Mt. Wilson per antennaweb. Setting the Terk on the kitchen island and pointing it out the window at 300 degrees, I'm able to get the following local HD stations: 2, 5, 7, 11, and 50 (KOCE PBS). Unfortunately for me, I was hoping for 9 and 13 as Directv does not carry those locals in HD.

NemesisCBR

01-10-07, 09:07 PM

I actually had the silver sensor in store when i bought the terk 2 years ago but i thought of it as cheap, being so much plastic. That was just an opinion though. The Terk antenna in my case picked up ANALOG channels so i dont know how it was in comparison to the Silver sensor. When i used it at sea level in Torrance, it picked up analog local channels about as well as our outdoor antenna when used in the living room with plenty of windows.

Just bought a 50 ft rg6 cable from home depot and im going to see if i can pick up better signals running the antenna from the bedroom into the living room where i have a larger sliding glass door. Testing will be done with both the rca and terk antenna which is not amplified. Wish i had the amplified version.

Re: the Terk HDTVa indoor antenna (what I believe is being referred to as a Silver Sensor clone), I've experimented with it down here in Mission Viejo and it has been the best performer out of the indoor antennas that I have tried.

That just proves what people say is right when its said that many applications are going to be trial and error based. If i find a silver sensor somewhere, id be willing to try it out but given the location im at and quality of the channels i see so far, i dont think it will work very well without an amplifier.

This is probably a stupid question since i have not seen any splitters with 2 in and 1 out but, is it possible to run 2 antennas into a single coax to improve reception?

Thus far im very impressed with what im able to pick up using this RCA amplified antenna after reading what others have posted with their results using other antennas. I thought my chances were slim being in san pedro where analog reception is junk on these hills. I have a picture ill post up later from HD news that i captured late last nite.

http://www.gerrysweb.com/cbr/albums/Misc/IMG_1808.sized.jpg
http://www.gerrysweb.com/cbr/albums/Misc/IMG_1809.sized.jpg

NemesisCBR

01-11-07, 05:33 AM

UPDATE:

Didnt get a chance to retest signal using the longer coax but i found a jack coming out of the wall in my room. Thought id see if it was the buildings antenna line and to my surprise it was... and picked up a pretty good signal too! Analog channels came in with typical lack of clarity but without the snow or any(or much) distortion related to signal strength. Digital channels were over the usual 50-75% mark running in the 75-90% range and i dont see much pixilation, brief picture loss or stuttering audio. I have lost 10.1 and 13.1 though. I'm probably going to settle on using this and returning my indoor antennas. My gf is happy cuz she can watch any of the channels now.

I'm assuming that condo's and apt's are using amplifiers throughout but is it possible to use one where it comes into my house? I want to catch channel 13 if i can.

holl_ands

01-11-07, 11:18 PM

Rudy- thanks a lot! I didn't know that (and found it). It'll definitely help out trying to get stations with my antenna.

My next question is about AGC. What am I looking for here? It's in the low 30s for the stations I receive, and 40+ for those that I don't.
My son's Sony GrandWega (North of Temecula near French Valley Airport) has three quality displays:
1. The usual Signal "goodness" percentage, which never gets worse than 40-50%, but should be 80% or more.
2. Signal-to-Noise Ratio (SNR), which needs to be AT LEAST 15 dB for a minimal PQ (as expected for ATSC),
but should be at least 18 dB (and maybe more) for long term reliability.
3. Automatic Gain Control (AGC) Level, which is 27-30 for marginal stations and low 20's for good stations.
The fairly narrow range may be due to CM-4228 only picking up distant stations on Mt Wilson with nearly the same signal strength.
There are no nearby DTV stations within the antenna's beamwidth to determine AGC Levels under strong signal conditions...
Note that your HDTV may use a different range of values for "AGC"--there is no industry standard...

The "Goodness" percentage is okay for adjusting antenna, but fluctuates quite a bit, so it's hard to obtain a "reading".
Rapid fluctuations are most likely due to rapid multipath fading effects (e.g. aircraft cause rapid signal fluctuations),
whereas infrequent dropouts are likely due to multipath from terrain conditions.

I find SNR to be the "best" estimator of performance, since it tells me (in dB), how much "fade margin" we have in reserve.
Unfortunately, very few HDTV's provide this info....

AGC level tells you how strong the signal level(s) are on the input and might be used to INFER various signal level situations.
A "weak" AGC level may confirm you need a bigger antenna, fewer RF Splitters or need to add a Preamp....
vice chasing multipath and intermod issues.
Conversely, if you have a problematic station with a strong AGC level,
you may want to investigate multipath and intermodulation (Preamp overload) problems.
And just to keep things interesting, an intermod product sitting on a channel can artificially inflate the AGC level....
making it difficult to determine if your are measuring the effect of the desired channel or undesired intermod products....

RudyG

01-12-07, 03:22 AM

holl_ands you've made some great posts here. Thanks.

Rudy

.plaid

01-12-07, 03:39 PM

Howdy.

I live in Aliso Viejo and antennaweb-dot-org tells me that the three HDTV OTA channels I could get are violet-coded. This is reasonable, as I can't even get a good signal on any analog channels with various indoor antennas with preamps. I'd like to get an outdoor antenna, but I seriously doubt that my apartment community would be ok with me sticking things on their roof.

Have any apartment-dwellers in Aliso Viejo/Mission Viejo/Laguna Hills had success overcoming the hills in the area?

Cheers.
.

//edit: spelling

holl_ands

01-13-07, 01:48 AM

I actually had the silver sensor in store when i bought the terk 2 years ago but i thought of it as cheap, being so much plastic. That was just an opinion though. The Terk antenna in my case picked up ANALOG channels so i dont know how it was in comparison to the Silver sensor. When i used it at sea level in Torrance, it picked up analog local channels about as well as our outdoor antenna when used in the living room with plenty of windows.

Just bought a 50 ft rg6 cable from home depot and im going to see if i can pick up better signals running the antenna from the bedroom into the living room where i have a larger sliding glass door. Testing will be done with both the rca and terk antenna which is not amplified. Wish i had the amplified version.

That just proves what people say is right when its said that many applications are going to be trial and error based. If i find a silver sensor somewhere, id be willing to try it out but given the location im at and quality of the channels i see so far, i dont think it will work very well without an amplifier.

This is probably a stupid question since i have not seen any splitters with 2 in and 1 out but, is it possible to run 2 antennas into a single coax to improve reception?

Thus far im very impressed with what im able to pick up using this RCA amplified antenna after reading what others have posted with their results using other antennas. I thought my chances were slim being in san pedro where analog reception is junk on these hills. I have a picture ill post up later from HD news that i captured late last nite.

http://www.gerrysweb.com/cbr/albums/Misc/IMG_1808.sized.jpg
http://www.gerrysweb.com/cbr/albums/Misc/IMG_1809.sized.jpg
An RF Splitter is bi-directional. It sort of acts as a signal combiner if you were to connect an antenna
to each of the "IN" ports and connect the "OUT" port to your HDTV.

If two antennas are perfectly pointed in the same direction and are perfectly matched in both gain and phase,
then the RF Combiner loss approaches zero and the output will be as much as 3 dB higher than if you used one antenna.

However, there can be as much as a 4 dB LOSS in the RF Combiner if the antennas are pointed in different
directions and/or are not well matched....such as you describe....

FYI: Lindsay makes $100 Stripline Couplers that only inject a 0.2 dB loss, irrespective of pointing and matching.

Multiple antennas may also pickup more multipath and interference than a single antenna....

Needless to say, although "stacked antennas" (same direction) or multiple antennas (different diretions)
can sometimes be made to work, they tend to be problematic....

NemesisCBR

01-13-07, 06:12 AM

I could do the testing with the 2 different antennas i have now and see how it goes. I could also get 2 of the same antennas and see how that does.

How about getting 13.1 back? What are my chances or is it even a good idea to add another amplifier on my end of the coax? Since its an apt style condo, im sure they have splitters and amplifiers running already. So far since i have used the outdoor signal i found, i have not experienced any channels lost, in/out, with the exception of 13.1 and 10.1 completely.

I would recommend anyone trying to get digital signals, not to base any theories on how your analog looks. Some indoor amplified antennas are designed to pick up the UHF signals better like the rca i used. Analog was poor while i picked up decent digital. Of course the buildings antenna rocks the socks off the rca.

Rambler358

01-13-07, 06:39 PM

Anyone getting no picture on CBS during the Colts/Raiders game? Got very good signal strength, but no picture.

jhb50

01-13-07, 11:45 PM

I am located 4 miles East of Desert Hot Springs and 95 miles East of Mt. Wilson and have ended up with a distant solution that defies all expectations and experience!

After researching my choices with HiGain antennas and low noise preamps and probing for hotspots with my existing Radio Shack HDTV antenna 6db gain/10db amp, I have ended up with that small 20" round grey plastic covered dish antenna mounted on a mast 5 feet off the ground attached to my fence, pointing over flat ground and between 2 11000 mountain peaks at the LA Mount Wilson antennas, 95 miles away. This location gives me the best reception of any spot including those up on the roof.

In this location, I am locked on the major LA digitals that were my target with 70% plus on my Sony Signal strength meter and S/N 20db+.. KCBS, KTLA(CW), KTTV(FOX), KOCE (PBS), KCET (PBS).These stations all have an ERP of 300KW or greater. I also get periodically get KCAL(IND) ,KDOC(PBS), KLCS(PBS) at 62% and S/N 18db, whose ERP's are around 150 KW plus a whole pile of Spanish and advertising stations.

I do not get KABC whose ERP is less than 150 nor KNBC who transmit on the same channel as my local NBC analog station, however I get both ABC and NBC from Palm Springs at 70%+ using a second antenna (UHF loop).

To attach the second antenna, I tried the Radio Shack, Remote A-B switch. but this turns out to be an electronic switch that attenuates the antenna signal (insertion loss 1.5dB) as does a reverse splitter and makes the signal vary every few seconds from 0-70%, so I have reverted to a manual A-B switch.

So as I was told.. try it.. you never know!

TonyW79SFV

01-14-07, 01:07 AM

It's official. As of 10pm, KTLA News is HD.

Johnny5.1

01-14-07, 01:22 PM

It's official. As of 10pm, KTLA News is HD.

Really? Woohoo, Hal Fishman in HD, this could get scary! :D

PJO1966

01-14-07, 01:25 PM

Really? Woohoo, Hal Fishman in HD, this could get scary! :D

Yikes! :eek:

TonyW79SFV

01-14-07, 05:46 PM

Yikes! :eek:

We'll see come Monday. I know that it was announced that KTLA News was going HD for a couple weeks already (it was mentioned earlier on this thread and at tvnewstalk) but yesterday night was the first time I saw it in HD. It's branded as "KTLA Prime News HD" under the news anchors name but not mentioned in the newscast. Plus, unlike KABC's innaugural HD newscast about 11 months ago, KTLA had nothing else but the studio cameras and news graphics (not even weather graphics) in 1080i 16:9, everything else was pillarboxed 4:3. KABC at least started off their newscasts with 16:9 SD remotes and weather graphics, an HD helicopter, and HD remote cams (or skycams) that most, except OC cams, have been upgraded to HD. Also, I noticed this morning, KABC does not start off their newscast as "Southern California's only HD newscast" anymore; however they are still ahead technologically, but I welcome KTLA and know that they will have more in the coming days; I'm waiting to see their HD Telecopter this upcoming workweek.

joe221

01-14-07, 07:06 PM

We'll see come Monday. I know that it was announced that KTLA News was going HD for a couple weeks already (it was mentioned earlier on this thread and at tvnewstalk) but yesterday night was the first time I saw it in HD. It's branded as "KTLA Prime News HD" under the news anchors name but not mentioned in the newscast. Plus, unlike KABC's innaugural HD newscast about 11 months ago, KTLA had nothing else but the studio cameras and news graphics (not even weather graphics) in 1080i 16:9, everything else was pillarboxed 4:3. KABC at least started off their newscasts with 16:9 SD remotes and weather graphics, an HD helicopter, and HD remote cams (or skycams) that most, except OC cams, have been upgraded to HD. Also, I noticed this morning, KABC does not start off their newscast as "Southern California's only HD newscast" anymore; however they are still ahead technologically, but I welcome KTLA and know that they will have more in the coming days; I'm waiting to see their HD Telecopter this upcoming workweek.

KABC can at least say "The First LA News in HD" KTLA should be ashamed they took so long, with all the local firsts they've done.

cured1

01-14-07, 07:46 PM

I picked up a phillips silver sensor from circuit city today and am pretty happy with the results. I live in Hollywood (90027) and only have South facing windows. However I am unable to get channels 5.1, 5.5, 9.1, and 13.1. I'm not quite sure why as I see from antenna web that most of the channels I am getting are in the same direction.

It's funny cause I can actually see the KTLA station from my window.

joe221

01-15-07, 01:34 AM

holl_ands

01-15-07, 02:55 AM

mamuco

01-15-07, 11:27 AM

Yes i saw the evening news on KTLA both days last weekend in HD. But as mentioned before , very disappointing that teh screen is mostly filled with filler graphics a m ost content is in 4:3. Studio cam looks good though. Graphics need an update to HD size. Well at least its a start.

joe221

01-15-07, 01:48 PM

TonyW79SFV

01-15-07, 09:07 PM

It's good that the TeleCopter is full HD in and out! :D ;)
I think the TrafficPulse is too.

I took a glimpse at the KTLA Morning News and saw the TeleCopter and TrafficPulse graphics in HD, along with the studio cameras. Now KABC has something called "Mega Doppler 7000 HD"; I have no idea what makes this different from the regular Doppler 7000, it's still not HD, just 16:9.

Patdeisa

01-16-07, 01:34 PM

My son's Sony GrandWega (North of Temecula near French Valley Airport) has three quality displays:
1. The usual Signal "goodness" percentage, which never gets worse than 40-50%, but should be 80% or more.
2. Signal-to-Noise Ratio (SNR), which needs to be AT LEAST 15 dB for a minimal PQ (as expected for ATSC),
but should be at least 18 dB (and maybe more) for long term reliability.
3. Automatic Gain Control (AGC) Level, which is 27-30 for marginal stations and low 20's for good stations.
The fairly narrow range may be due to CM-4228 only picking up distant stations on Mt Wilson with nearly the same signal strength.
There are no nearby DTV stations within the antenna's beamwidth to determine AGC Levels under strong signal conditions...
Note that your HDTV may use a different range of values for "AGC"--there is no industry standard...

The "Goodness" percentage is okay for adjusting antenna, but fluctuates quite a bit, so it's hard to obtain a "reading".
Rapid fluctuations are most likely due to rapid multipath fading effects (e.g. aircraft cause rapid signal fluctuations),
whereas infrequent dropouts are likely due to multipath from terrain conditions.

I find SNR to be the "best" estimator of performance, since it tells me (in dB), how much "fade margin" we have in reserve.
Unfortunately, very few HDTV's provide this info....

AGC level tells you how strong the signal level(s) are on the input and might be used to INFER various signal level situations.
A "weak" AGC level may confirm you need a bigger antenna, fewer RF Splitters or need to add a Preamp....
vice chasing multipath and intermod issues.
Conversely, if you have a problematic station with a strong AGC level,
you may want to investigate multipath and intermodulation (Preamp overload) problems.
And just to keep things interesting, an intermod product sitting on a channel can artificially inflate the AGC level....
making it difficult to determine if your are measuring the effect of the desired channel or undesired intermod products....
Thanks! I was asking about it because the tv was reading AGC, but SNR was 0 (hence me not receiving anything- I knew that to begin with). I've actually found my problem with reception. There's a 25 Watt retransmitter (yes, only 25 Watts) about 10 miles away that re-broadcasts the main local stations to the valley, but since it's a non-profit group doing it, they don't have funding to re-broadcast all the stations in digital, as the the new equipment costs money and they're waiting on FCC license issues for some other channels. It seems like they're getting one up every few months or so, so it might be a while before getting Fox and ABC.

surfinarfy

01-20-07, 08:58 PM

I live in West Los Angeles, around Pico and Bundy, 26 miles from towers. I tried three different indoor antennas with very different levels of success.

First, I tried the Terk Indoor HDTVi. I picked up Fox, CBS, and CW at in the mid 80% range. No NBC or ABC.

I hated the design of the terk so much i didn't even bother trying the amplified version. Stupid small base falls over every time you nudge it!

So then I tried the amplified Philips MANT510. This antenna looks great, nice little design, and is smaller than most. It definately did better than the terk, as I got signal in and out on NBC/ABC and Fox up to 90%.

THEN I tried the Philips PHDTV3. I didn't read the best reviews, (even though this is based around the silver sensor design) but I also read different antennas work in different areas. So I gave it a shot, even though its a bit bulky. I get everything now, 80% or above, with Fox at near 100%! I also noticed that PHDTV3 is the only one that has the "Meets or Exceeds CEA Performance Specs for indoor Antennas" logo on the box. Well, I'll be keeping this one even though its not as sexy as the MANT510. And good luck out there, finding the best solution for your situation really is just a matter of trial and error.

- Arthur in West LA

skarim

01-21-07, 12:19 PM

RudyG

01-22-07, 02:29 PM

Just purchased a Samsung dtb h260f.
it works great in Santa Monica, around Santa Monica blvd. and 26th. (90404) Again about 26 miles from towers.
Using a cheap RCA rabbit ear antenna, I get 20+ channels. Perhaps I am lucky enough to have minimal obstructions.

Just for reference, I get about 43 digital OTA stations with the Zenith Silver Sensor ZHDTV1. It took a bit of pointing and repointing though. I'm on Amherst, which is one block west of Bundy, between Santa Monica and Wilshire. 90025.

Rudy

skarim

01-22-07, 09:20 PM

Thanks for the info. I went to channel manager and counted that I actually get 38 channels with the rabbit ears at zip code 90404.

probably not worth upgrading to a better antenna to get a few more. a lot of the channels are kind of junky anyways.

joe221

01-22-07, 10:32 PM

The Big Bad

01-24-07, 11:19 AM

.plaid - I think antennaweb's not quite accurate nowadays. Some months ago it reported all of the local LA stations being available to me with varying degrees of color (I'm near La Paz and Olympiad). Now, it reports only three stations in violet. I've had the most luck with the Terk HDTVa that you can pick up at Best Buy. Not able to get all, but can get some (see my earlier post a couple of days ago).

joe221

01-24-07, 11:48 AM

Looks like KTLA couldn't muster enough up to actually do their 60th Anniversary/Star unveiling remote from Hollywood & Highland in HD. They must really think a lot of themselves NOT to at least RENT the equipment needed to do this. Come on! Geesh. Just call KABC, they could cover you in HD!
:confused:

DSperber

01-25-07, 12:54 AM

Anybody watching "The Met in HD" on KCET-HD?

For me it is essentially unwatchable, because of the horrible horrible audio problems. Terrible digital breakups, long periods of silence, and a 1-3 second lip sync problem that is astonishing (possibly directly related to the digital audio breakup)!

Shameful. This is a real blue ribbon national presentation that has received lots of hype (the NY Saturday afternoon live shows at the Met are being shown simultaneously around the country in movie theaters, and then 30 days later on PBS-HD channels around the country) but it is seriously flawed in the audio department... at least for me, OTA.

qwert1515

01-30-07, 08:54 PM

The Laker game on Kcal 9 is in HD right now. Tuesday, January 30, 2007

Lakers @ NEW YORK KNICKS

http://img172.imagevenue.com/loc164/th_09553_1_122_164lo.JPG (http://img172.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=09553_1_122_164lo.JPG)

ghettogreg

01-30-07, 09:07 PM

The Laker game on Kcal 9 is in HD right now. Tuesday, January 30, 2007

Lakers @ NEW YORK KNICKS

Yeah, too bad it's not live- I've been very tempted to check the score online :eek:

qwert1515

01-30-07, 09:14 PM

I just realized that it's not live, its almost a "half" behind, does anyone know the reason, is it so that it is at a better time for us?

danki6x

01-31-07, 06:17 PM

KCAL HD Sports

This is more related to Time Warner KCAL HD being added, but looks like Lakers and Dodgers will be regular HD now.

http://cbs2.com/topstories/local_story_031140025.html

Dan

qwert1515

01-31-07, 06:42 PM

Thanks danki6x for that information.

ghettogreg

01-31-07, 06:45 PM

I just realized that it's not live, its almost a "half" behind, does anyone know the reason, is it so that it is at a better time for us?

Not really sure why they do this- it only happens for games taking place before 5:30 pacific time. If I'm not mistaken, it's been like this for years.
I'll bet tonight's 4:30 game in Boston won't begin airing until 5:30. That's okay with me though, now that all kcal9 games are in HD!

qwert1515

01-31-07, 08:41 PM

Tonights Laker game is not in HD and is delayed again.

ghettogreg

01-31-07, 08:54 PM

Tonights Laker game is not in HD and is delayed again.

Yeah , I was a little pissed about that too. Well at least all games after today will be in HD. Friday is kcal's official HD premiere so I guess last night's Knicks game in HD was just a little teaser

hiddenleavez

02-01-07, 02:38 AM

Just purchased a Samsung dtb h260f.
it works great in Santa Monica, around Santa Monica blvd. and 26th. (90404) Again about 26 miles from towers.
Using a cheap RCA rabbit ear antenna, I get 20+ channels. Perhaps I am lucky enough to have minimal obstructions.

I'm outside of Cal State LA. With a cheap 99 cent antenna, I get about 29 channel including all the major channel as well as the Funimation 18-3 and Qubo 30-2 channel. Quality has been very good, only time there was some breakup was because of a helicopter flying by, but other than that all HD channel comes in clearly but some are not as good as they can be.

I'm wondering if I should spend some money and get a good antenna and if that should improve some of the picture?

Also, I remember watching a clippers game in HD and it was really good (filled up the whole screen). Days later, I saw them play against the sonic and the quality was really poor (almost unwatchable) on channel 5-1 (hd) and didn't fill up the screen. Is this common? I figure it's because that game wasn't film in HD while the one I saw before was.

ghettogreg

02-01-07, 02:20 PM

Also, I remember watching a clippers game in HD and it was really good (filled up the whole screen). Days later, I saw them play against the sonic and the quality was really poor (almost unwatchable) on channel 5-1 (hd) and didn't fill up the screen. Is this common? I figure it's because that game wasn't film in HD while the one I saw before was.

Exactly right, KTLA can be inconsistent in broadcasting Clippers games in HD. Some are in HD, some are not.

technewbie

02-01-07, 05:54 PM

Hi all,

New on this thread. Live in Signal Hill (near long beach). Local cable company - Charter. Got my Sammy LN-S4095D a little more than a month now, use it to watch regular dvd and basic cable (for free; still cannot afford hd cable). Thinking about getting indoor HDTV antenna for local OTA channels. Is there any good one out there? If someone live nearby, how well does the antenna works and which direction should I point to? Thank you all!

Johnny5.1

02-01-07, 08:07 PM

Also, I remember watching a clippers game in HD and it was really good (filled up the whole screen). Days later, I saw them play against the sonic and the quality was really poor (almost unwatchable) on channel 5-1 (hd) and didn't fill up the screen. Is this common? I figure it's because that game wasn't film in HD while the one I saw before was.[/QUOTE]

KTLA only broadcasts Clipper home games in HD. The only road games they've done in HD were when they travel to play the LA Lakers. :p

xxbiggie

02-01-07, 10:21 PM

TonyW79SFV

02-01-07, 10:54 PM

Yeah , I was a little pissed about that too. Well at least all games after today will be in HD. Friday is kcal's official HD premiere so I guess last night's Knicks game in HD was just a little teaser

Most likely KCAL was taking the feed off of MSG|HD's truck. I saw MSG's truck two month's ago when I was in New York City at Penn Station (next door to Madison Square Garden) and it boldly mentioned the truck is a high defintion production truck.

Ironic how KTLA does Clippers home games in HD and KCAL does Lakers away games in HD provided the opponent's network/station does their game in HD.

ghettogreg

02-01-07, 11:00 PM

I live in Alhambra, CA (5 min away from Cal State LA). I just got a RCA ANT301, and I basically can't get ANY HD CHANNELS AT ALL!!! It's driving me nuts. I have Charter Cable with HD channels, but i want to watch the LAKERS game on KCAL in HD, and the only way to get it is through OTA. Which antennas do you guys recommend I get? Will a better indoor one work or should I just get a OUTDOOR on?

I live about 65 miles away from the broadcast towers and I am still able to get near perfect signal strength with my indoor zenith silver sensor antenna. So I would highly recommend that one. It does depend, though, on your line of sight- if you've got a bunch of trees (or other obstructions) surrounding your place, then you may be out of luck with an indoor antenna

hiddenleavez

02-02-07, 02:19 AM

I live in Alhambra, CA (5 min away from Cal State LA). I just got a RCA ANT301, and I basically can't get ANY HD CHANNELS AT ALL!!! It's driving me nuts. I have Charter Cable with HD channels, but i want to watch the LAKERS game on KCAL in HD, and the only way to get it is through OTA. Which antennas do you guys recommend I get? Will a better indoor one work or should I just get a OUTDOOR on?

Does your HDTV have an ATSC tuner built in? Because some people only have HD-ready TV (no tuner) so they get HD through an external tuner (cable box) and can't get it OTA. Other than that, any cheap antenna should pick up signal quite easily from where you are at (my 99 cent antenna I pick up 29 digital station).

Rick_R

02-02-07, 12:08 PM

I live in Alhambra, CA (5 min away from Cal State LA). I just got a RCA ANT301, and I basically can't get ANY HD CHANNELS AT ALL!!! It's driving me nuts. I have Charter Cable with HD channels, but i want to watch the LAKERS game on KCAL in HD, and the only way to get it is through OTA. Which antennas do you guys recommend I get? Will a better indoor one work or should I just get a OUTDOOR on?
In Alhambra a coat hanger should get HD OTA fine. However the Silver Sensor is highly recommended by others on this forum. It is often available at Circuit City.

Rick R

xxbiggie

02-02-07, 08:49 PM

I have a Sony 32S2010. My dad and I even hooked up the Rooftop antenna, and still no luck. I did the scan and all, it picks up analog stations such as ABC, NBC, FOX, etc. but no digital stations. It's so frustrating. I WANT KCAL!!!

Any advance guys? Thanks for all the help.

oh yea, the antenna's suppose to be pointed 7-8 degrees right?

thecrazykevy

02-03-07, 04:16 AM

Exactly right, KTLA can be inconsistent in broadcasting Clippers games in HD. Some are in HD, some are not.
Only Clippers home games are in HD, road games aren't. I'm guessing they only broadcast home games in HD because Staples Center already has HD cams built into the arena.

Kingcarcas

02-03-07, 05:39 AM

This is so freakin' sweet! I just got a Sammy 42'' DLP at the perfect time to watch the Lakers in HD :D I've never been to a game so this will be as close i can get :eek: So i don't need an antenna right? DirecTV is coming to hook me up so i should be set :confused: I live in East L.A. BTW.

hiddenleavez

02-03-07, 02:24 PM

Laker HD was awesome, however it is not as good as the clippers HD game on KTLA imo.

ms123d

02-03-07, 07:07 PM

xxbiggie

02-03-07, 07:08 PM

Hey guys....I finally FOUND OUT THE PROBLEM!!!

After trying a indoor antenna, an outdoor antenna, and a rooftop antenna. I discovered that my TV was set on CABLE ON as a default setting. I had no clue because the DIGITAL settings and the CABLE ON/OFF setting were in completely different menu options.

NOW I CAN ENJOY KCAL IN HD, JUST IN TIME FOR THE LAKERES VS WIZARDS GAME!!! WOOT WOOT!!!

Thanks for the advice, and help. Time to ENJOY the Lakers game in HD.

hobbs47

02-03-07, 08:34 PM

Todays Lakers/Wizards game looks as good as any HD basketball I have seen,even as good as last years KTLA Laker/Clipper games.Great game so far as well,Kobe is on fire.

hiddenleavez

02-03-07, 08:36 PM

Hi, I'm new to this whole HDTV antenna business

I live in Tustin, CA zipcode 92782... condos

I was hoping to get some tips on which antennas would be best to get HDTV reception... Preferably indoor antenna

Also, another question was, my tv is an LCD TV with 1080i capability.. However, it doesnt have a period button that I've normally seen on other HDTVs to access HD channels like 2.1 or 7.1 or etc... How would I access these channels???

Thank you... this forum seems like a great place for me to learn about all this

I accidentally posted this in the LA, CA -TWC thread and I was directed here

Most people either get the Zenith one or the Terka HDTV antenna and i notice these got good review. However, I get exceptional reception with a lot of digital channel with a 99cent regular bunny ear anntenna that used to belong to the tube tv, so I don't know if I want to spend 40 bucks and not get any benefit. As for your second question, use the channel up and down button to scroll through the channel.

Only Clippers home games are in HD, road games aren't. I'm guessing they only broadcast home games in HD because Staples Center already has HD cams built into the arena.

If that was the case, then it' funny how KCAL can broadcast laker away game in HD but KTLA can't with clippers.

ghettogreg

02-04-07, 12:21 AM

Todays Lakers/Wizards game looks as good as any HD basketball I have seen,even as good as last years KTLA Laker/Clipper games.Great game so far as well,Kobe is on fire.

I was thinking the same thing. It was the best HD programming I've seen in a while (not including HD DVD or Blu ray)

narkspud

02-04-07, 03:56 AM

Hi, I'm new to this whole HDTV antenna business

I live in Tustin, CA zipcode 92782... condos

I was hoping to get some tips on which antennas would be best to get HDTV reception... Preferably indoor antenna

Also, another question was, my tv is an LCD TV with 1080i capability.. However, it doesnt have a period button that I've normally seen on other HDTVs to access HD channels like 2.1 or 7.1 or etc... How would I access these channels???

Thank you... this forum seems like a great place for me to learn about all this

I accidentally posted this in the LA, CA -TWC thread and I was directed here

I'm in Tustin, 92780, in an apartment. The apartment provides an antenna on the roof that gets everything fairly reliably. Which is fortunate, because indoors, my Zenith Silver Sensor (which seems to be everybody's fave indoor antenna on this board) gets a great big steaming pile of not a darn thing. If I hold it at just the right angle and don't move, I might get a channel or two for a few seconds. No other antenna setup I've tried can even pull in that much -- not even 99 cent rabbit ears. (Yes, I tried them.)

I have plenty of buildings, trees and walls in the way, and no weapons capable of removing them, so this is not much of a surprise. I don't get squat from analog either. May you have better luck with your indoor antenna than I had. Let us know how it goes.

Oh, BTW, your TV does have a built-in ATSC tuner, right? If not, you have some more equipment to buy before joining us in OTA HD land.