bit of a rant...

Ken Burns new doc series on WW2, KCET managed to broadcast it with bad audio sync issues and not flagged properly for 5.1. well done! unwatchable.

NBC HD nightly news. again, like most NBC HD shows, the audio is not flagged for 5.1. therefore, broadcast is unwatchable as the audio is low and hollow.

a while back, ABC news with gibson had drop out/pixelation issues for a few weeks-- not related to reception. {like the ones KTLA has with Raymond, and NBC with extra etc]

Eventually, I called and spoke to the ABC broadcast engineer. He noticed it, during the broadcast, only when I pointed it out. It was fixed a day later.

I am astounded by the level of incompetence of these people. Don't they monitor their own broadcasts?? what do they actually do for quality control?

rant over...

Anyone notice KTLA switching back and forth between HD and SD? I'm watching their broadcast of "Planet LA" right now and it switched to SD a within a couple minutes after they were talking about how KTLA was the first station in LA to broadcast in HD.

bit of a rant...
NBC HD nightly news. again, like most NBC HD shows, the audio is not flagged for 5.1. therefore, broadcast is unwatchable as the audio is low and hollow.
rant over...

I think you mean the audio is flagged 5.1 when it should not be, so it sounds friggin terrible when listening via a 5.1 system since all sound and dialog eminates only from L/R channels. No center channel at all.

This also drives me nuts, enough so that I have a analog L/R connection from my STB just for this problem. CBS has it right but NBC just doesn't seem to care.

Due South? This is most interesting. Looking at the TV Fool plot, that station is ~120 miles away and more to the SE. It certainly raises my hopes for getting it at a "mere" 72 miles. However, I have a couple little hills in the way.

Can you get this channel on a regular basis or was it a fluke?

Are lower UHF channels open to more ducting events?
Bear in mind that RudyG is nearly on the coast, so signals from Mt Soledad, Mt Miguel
& T.J. are nearly all over open ocean, where there is ample opportunity for low loss
ducting phenomena....and no hills/mountains in the way....

Under the "ANTENNAS" link, I see seven on-air tests with JBX21W.....

Try it again, this time using the provided "reception_solutions" link:
http://www.atechfabrication.com/reception_solutions.htm
Aha got it. Thanks holl_ands.

Rudy

Due South? This is most interesting. Looking at the TV Fool plot, that station is ~120 miles away and more to the SE. It certainly raises my hopes for getting it at a "mere" 72 miles. However, I have a couple little hills in the way.

Can you get this channel on a regular basis or was it a fluke?

Are lower UHF channels open to more ducting events?
Doh. I'm sorry Falcon, I dunno what I was thinking. You are absolutely right I meant more due East, as Mt. Wilson is North-East from me. Sorry for the possible confusion.:o

And yes I was definitely able to pull it in consistently, although in all honesty i haven't tried it in a couple of months.

Good Luck.
Rudy

Bear in mind that RudyG is nearly on the coast, so signal from Mt Wilson
is nearly all over open ocean, where there is ample opportunity for low loss
ducting phenomena....and no hills/mountains in the way....
Absolutely, although there appear to be something or somethings that are causing multipath. It is almost always during the day, and is exacerbated by just about any wind.

Rudy

Avoiding co-channel problems with local LA stations is my main concern at this point. This is the line-up I'm showing:

Analog:
KFMB: 8 - ok
KGTV: 10 - ok
KPBS: 15 - ok
KNSD - 39 - co-channel with KVEA (D)
KUSI - 51 - co-channel with KXLA (D)
KSWB - 69 - co-channel with KTAV-LP (A)

Digital:

KUSI - 18 - co-channel with KSCI (A)
KSWB - 19 - ok
KGTV - 25 - co-channel with KNET-LP (A)
KPBS - 30 - co-channel with KPXN (A)
KNSD - 40 - co-channel with KTBN (D)
KFMB - 55 - co-channel with K55KD (A)

The above picture looks rather bleak, doesn't it?

It looks like the tests on that one site are 5 years old. I'm assuming that things are a bit more crowded now.

8, 10 & 15 are the only channels from San Diego that I'm on the verge of getting right now. I am going to try for 19 this weekend. Is there really any hope for the others?
Recent tests by FCC's Office of Engineering Technology (OET) revealed
that most HDTV's were even more susceptible to interference on NEXT
adjacent channels (N+2 and N-2)....and lesser amount from image channel (N+7).

The limiting factor is probably going to be Intermod Noise in the Preamp....
And it's difficult to accurately steer nulls in multiple directions....

bit of a rant...

Ken Burns new doc series on WW2, KCET managed to broadcast it with bad audio sync issues and not flagged properly for 5.1. well done! unwatchable.

NBC HD nightly news. again, like most NBC HD shows, the audio is not flagged for 5.1. therefore, broadcast is unwatchable as the audio is low and hollow.

a while back, ABC news with gibson had drop out/pixelation issues for a few weeks-- not related to reception. {like the ones KTLA has with Raymond, and NBC with extra etc]

Eventually, I called and spoke to the ABC broadcast engineer. He noticed it, during the broadcast, only when I pointed it out. It was fixed a day later.

I am astounded by the level of incompetence of these people. Don't they monitor their own broadcasts?? what do they actually do for quality control?

rant over...

I saw that and the audio was fine.

I'm not sure what I did the last couple of days but I believe the tip about MCE using decoders twice seem to solve my audio issues as my reported problems with NBC and CBS are completely fixed and Vern Lundquist sounded perfect during the CBS college football game this afternoon. Right now I am watching SNL@1080i and it studder-free and sounds great.

I only have 2 speakers but its perfect Dolby 5.1 hiss free sound...

One other thing -

After deleting the MCE update that causes HD Tuner Video Error messages, I now get 5 digit digital channels.

A problem I have never had before, ever.

I tried downloading the July update and no dice. I tried to restart ehome services via Command Prompt, no dice.

Any tips on how to fix this???

bit of a rant...

[snip]

I am astounded by the level of incompetence of these people. Don't they monitor their own broadcasts?? what do they actually do for quality control?

rant over...

Answer from an NBC Technical Director is NO. They do not have the personnel to have someone monitor the OTA signal much.

"I saw that and the audio was fine." "I only have 2 speakers but its perfect Dolby 5.1 hiss free sound..."

errr...

with all due respect, you dont have 5.1 with 2 speakers. you have stereo. and you wouldnt be able to hear what the audio problem was.

as for the audio flagging, it is entirely possible to do this correctly, so that it works with 5.1 systems.

I thought the big deal about OTA DTV, is the digital HD pq, and 5.1 sound. yet NBC in particular seem unable to do it consistently. I dont believ its a cost issue. more of a tech/competence issue.

edit 4pm sunday

and now they are showing the war on kcet 28.1 in letterboxed 4:3, instead of 16:9. Ken Burns must be thrilled to have spent years of his life making sthing for PBS, that they can't spend 5 mins on, to broadcast it correctly

While trying to locate info on availible OTA stations I came across this site that seems pretty complete. Unfortunately for me I am in an area in Glendale in a building with no roof access and other buildings and mountains preventing good OTA reception.. Hopefully this may help someone else... :(

http://hdtvmagazine.com/programming/broadcast-market-print.php?dma_name[]=Los%20Angeles

Folks

KCET-HD is 1080i as long as I can remember. I recorded "The War" and now I am noticing the reported resolution is 720p, is that what this program is being broadcast at?

Can anyone who has native resolution as the default for their decoder/TV comment on what they are seeing for the war, 720p or 1080i?

I receive both KCET-DT OTA and KPBS-DT OTA. Here are pics.

KCET-DT is 1280x720
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/4638/kcet03oz1.th.jpg (http://img209.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kcet03oz1.jpg)

KPBS-DT is 1920x1080
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/1874/kpbs01in8.th.jpg (http://img220.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kpbs01in8.jpg)

Folks

KCET-HD is 1080i as long as I can remember. I recorded "The War" and now I am noticing the reported resolution is 720p, is that what this program is being broadcast at?

Can anyone who has native resolution as the default for their decoder/TV comment on what they are seeing for the war, 720p or 1080i?
Hey John KCET switched to 720p a little while ago. If my memory serves me correctly I'd say a month or two ago.

HTH.
Rudy

Well folks it was fun having it, although I can't say I watched it all the time. But The Tube network is no more, as of October 1st according to their site.
http://www.thetubetv.com/

Rudy

Well folks it was fun having it, although I can't say I watched it all the time. But The Tube network is no more, as of October 1st according to their site.
http://www.thetubetv.com/

Oh this is sad. :(

I liked to put The Tube on after hours at work to have music while I worked. Maybe it's time to do what everyone else does and get streaming music over the Internet.

First the Funimation Channel and now The Tube. Ugh, is there some sort of force against broadcasting new channels?

Bear in mind that RudyG is nearly on the coast, so signal from Mt Wilson
is nearly all over open ocean, where there is ample opportunity for low loss
ducting phenomena....and no hills/mountains in the way....

Mt. Wilson? You meant the mountain in Eastern San Diego, right? I can't to find the name of that one.

It appears that the UHF stations for San Diego are on that mountain and that the VHF stations are on Mt. Soledad (at least on this side of the border). It makes me wonder if there is a reason for it. Why aren't they all on the same mountain?

My attempts to get 19 (KSWB), along with any other SD station, failed again. I was able to improve on 8 and 10 by putting a Winegard YA-1713 in the attic, but the picture quality was still very poor (at least I got color!).

I was almost able to get KVCR - 26, but the best I could get was 13 SNR, so just a few dB below what I need. I was using the UHF portion of the CM3020 for that test. I may have to unmount the CM4228 to get it a chance as I can't turn it much right now and KVCR appears to be near a null.

As for San Diego, the bottom line is that there are just too many hills and other units in the way, especially for UHF. I may only have a shot if put an antenna on the roof (instead of in the attic), but that would be quite a chore and would get the HOA's attention I'm sure.

Well folks it was fun having it, although I can't say I watched it all the time. But The Tube network is no more, as of October 1st according to their site.
http://www.thetubetv.com/

Rudy
Yeah I saw the announcement on KTLA DT 5.5 this evening. So what will KTLA do with that channel now?

I think it was a bit early for limited reach channels like FUNmation and Tube honestly.

With all the confusion about HD and how to get it, its not a surprise these channels didn't have enough viewer ship to warrant continuation.

The core market for Anime is largely under 30 (though I am closer to 40) and I only hardcore anime lovers even knew about the channel, similar to finding Starblazers on UHF back in the 70's-early 80's...

When there is no more analog signal, then I think you can bring these channels back to all markets and view ship will increase, were you can run more adverts and make more money to keep the channels running in your local market.

I get 54 channels and I haven't found all the subchannels yet, no hurry.

MTV/VH1 has lost its direction with music videos and turned into a Reality TV channel largely, Tube TV or another OTA music channel will come along.

Mt. Wilson? You meant the mountain in Eastern San Diego, right? I can't to find the name of that one.

It appears that the UHF stations for San Diego are on that mountain and that the VHF stations are on Mt. Soledad (at least on this side of the border). It makes me wonder if there is a reason for it. Why aren't they all on the same mountain?

My attempts to get 19 (KSWB), along with any other SD station, failed again. I was able to improve on 8 and 10 by putting a Winegard YA-1713 in the attic, but the picture quality was still very poor (at least I got color!).

I was almost able to get KVCR - 26, but the best I could get was 13 SNR, so just a few dB below what I need. I was using the UHF portion of the CM3020 for that test. I may have to unmount the CM4228 to get it a chance as I can't turn it much right now and KVCR appears to be near a null.

As for San Diego, the bottom line is that there are just too many hills and other units in the way, especially for UHF. I may only have a shot if put an antenna on the roof (instead of in the attic), but that would be quite a chore and would get the HOA's attention I'm sure.
Can't believe I got L.A. and S.D. reversed!!!! Wasn't even past midnight....

DTV signals in S.D. come from Mt Soledad (8.1=UHF55, 10.1=UHF25),
Mt Miguel near Spring Valley (15.1=UHF30, 39.1=UHF40, 51.1=UHF18, 69.1=UHF19)
and TiJuana (6.1=UHF23). All are ocean paths to RudyG.

Anyone else here seeing what I'll call a waterfall effect on KNBC-DT? I'm seeing very sparse single white'ish pixels occasionally twinkling in the bottom 20%, middle third of my screen when the background is dark, this isn't showing up on either DirecTV feed (crappy hdlite mpeg2, or actual local mpeg4), but is showing up through Time Warner's NBC-HD feed

There is a new Digital Low Power TV that has just signed on at Mt. Wilson. The call sign is KFLA-LD.

The coverage map is shown of the FCC web site:
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=LD1157441.html

This is the first one on the air in Southern California. It is multicastiing.

There is a new Digital Low Power TV that has just signed on at Mt. Wilson. The call sign is KFLA-LD.

The coverage map is shown of the FCC web site:
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=LD1157441.html

This is the first one on the air in Southern California. It is multicastiing.
It looks like they'll be transmitting KCET stations on channel 8 according to the link below. Does that sound about right LATV?

http://radiostationworld.com/Locations/United_States_of_America/California/tv.asp?m=los

Rudy

There is a new Digital Low Power TV that has just signed on at Mt. Wilson. The call sign is KFLA-LD.

The coverage map is shown of the FCC web site:
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=LD1157441.html

This is the first one on the air in Southern California. It is multicastiing.

Did it just start broadcasting yesterday? Looking at the FCC database it still shows CP for that one, but I expect it takes them a while to update the database.

I found the following plot for the another channel 8 of theirs that was listed as licensed:

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=LD1135218.html

Consider how close they are and the fact that they are on the same channel, is this an example of a Single Frequency Network?

Looking at the plots, it looks like I won't be receiving it, which is fine since I can get the UHF channel just fine. I also don't want something to interfere with San Diego 8.

This is a move from Blueridge (South of Victorville) to Mt. Wilson. They will not be carrying KCET (for obvious reasons). As soon a station goes on teh air it must notify the FCC and apply for a license to cover. This can take a while for the FCC to actually issue the license. One of the channels is America One.

Are they on the air tonight? I know, being in central Orange County, that I'm smack dab in the middle of their null, but I was still hoping against hope . . .

I really need some help in getting my OTA setup working.

I am trying to get HD OTA reception for a tailgate at USC this weekend (Downtown LA). I bought this TV from Costco:

Sharp 26" LCD LC-26SH12U (http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11224515&whse=BC&topnav=&browse=&lang=en-US)

And so far every antenna I have tried has not given me a digital signal. On this TV you are supposed to check the digital signal strength by going into the menu and looking at "Signal Meter", but every antenna I have tried leads the "signal meter" option to be grayed-out and not selectable.

I have tried the following antennas:

HDTV Outdoor/Indoor Antenna (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2253765&cp=2032057&categoryId=2032057&kwCatId=2032057&parentPage=search)

HDTV Indoor/Outdoor Directional Antenna (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2348191&cp=2032057&categoryId=2032057&kwCatId=2032057&parentPage=search)

Amplified VHF/UHF/FM Indoor Antenna (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103916&cp=2032057&categoryId=2032057&kwCatId=2032057&parentPage=search)

RCA Indoor Amplified Tv Antenna (http://www.amazon.com/RCA-ANT-585-Indoor-Amplified-Antenna/dp/B000AL1MUQ******pd_bbs_sr_1/102-9824115-4936949?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1191484114&sr=1-1)

At this point I cannot figure out if the problem is with the antenna or the TV. I have gotten analog OTA signals with the cheapest RadioShack antenna I mentioned above at the last tailgate at USC 2 weeks ago, but I have not gotten any kind of signal on the other antennas at my home in Santa Clarita (I have gotten an HD signal from my Dish Network STB through HDMI also, for what its worth).

I appreciate any insight you can provide. Even if it is to tell me I'm an idiot. I need to get something up and working and I have a short time frame. Maybe if I take all of these antennas to USC this weekend and plug them in one by one they will show some kind of digital signal strength? Or maybe I should buy another TV at Costco just in case my TV's tuner is broken?

Please help me.

Their official web page is at http://www.kfla.tv. They may have started Sep 25th 2007... But I cant get it where I am at even though I am in the area for it... (OTA for me is still a no-go)


They should have the following:
8.1 America One : http://www.americaone.com
8.2 Corner Store TV : (looks like informercials) http://www.cornerstoretv.com

And so far every antenna I have tried has not given me a digital signal. On this TV you are supposed to check the digital signal strength by going into the menu and looking at "Signal Meter", but every antenna I have tried leads the "signal meter" option to be grayed-out and not selectable.

Santa Clarita looks like a tough area for DTV reception. However, with the signal meter grayed-out, it sounds like you may be in cable TV mode.

Reception prospects at the Coliseum should be much better and I would think any of those antennas will pull in KABC-DT. However, it looks like the game this weekend is on Versus? :confused:

I really need some help in getting my OTA setup working.

I am trying to get HD OTA reception for a tailgate at USC this weekend (Downtown LA). I bought this TV from Costco:

Sharp 26" LCD LC-26SH12U

And so far every antenna I have tried has not given me a digital signal. On this TV you are supposed to check the digital signal strength by going into the menu and looking at "Signal Meter", but every antenna I have tried leads the "signal meter" option to be grayed-out and not selectable.

I have tried the following antennas:

HDTV Outdoor/Indoor Antenna

HDTV Indoor/Outdoor Directional Antenna

Amplified VHF/UHF/FM Indoor Antenna

RCA Indoor Amplified Tv Antenna

At this point I cannot figure out if the problem is with the antenna or the TV. I have gotten analog OTA signals with the cheapest RadioShack antenna I mentioned above at the last tailgate at USC 2 weeks ago, but I have not gotten any kind of signal on the other antennas at my home in Santa Clarita (I have gotten an HD signal from my Dish Network STB through HDMI also, for what its worth).

I appreciate any insight you can provide. Even if it is to tell me I'm an idiot. I need to get something up and working and I have a short time frame. Maybe if I take all of these antennas to USC this weekend and plug them in one by one they will show some kind of digital signal strength? Or maybe I should buy another TV at Costco just in case my TV's tuner is broken?

Please help me.
From a fellow Trojan:

First, I can't find the manual for your TV on the Sharp website. I can find the spec page, so I at least know it has the ATSC tuner it. Most likely, the TV has a setting somewhere in the menu system that determines if the coax input is used for cable or OTA reception. If there are multiple coax inputs on the TV, one may be dedicated to cable and the other is for antenna. There may still be a menu setting that determines if the antenna input is used for analog or digital. Look for a setting in the menu that currently says something like "Cable" or "QAM". You should be able to change that option to Antenna instead.

I know that my TV has two coax input (older Mits RPTV). One is used for either QAM cable tuning or digital OTA (I have to select which in the menu system). The other is strictly for analog OTA.

Santa Clarita looks like a tough area for DTV reception. However, with the signal meter grayed-out, it sounds like you may be in cable TV mode.

Reception prospects at the Coliseum should be much better and I would think any of those antennas will pull in KABC-DT. However, it looks like the game this weekend is on Versus? :confused:
That's true, it will be on Versus. We just need something to watch when we set up our tailgate at 8:30am. I'll be in the stadium during the game so I won't worry about watching it on TV, but I will have to probably download a torrent to be able to see it later.

Back on topic, I had it switched to "Air" mode, and the signal meter option was still grayed-out. I'm not sure if it is because I am not getting a digital signal or if the TV tuner is broken or if somewhere deep in the TV menu the digital tuner default settings were accidently set to off.

I really need some help in getting my OTA setup working.

I am trying to get HD OTA reception for a tailgate at USC this weekend (Downtown LA).

As others have mentioned Santa Clarita is a dead zone for OTA. However at the Coliseum it should be east to get OTA. It is possible that the menu is greyed out because it can not lock onto any digital OTA stations in Santa Clarita. If this is the case everything will work fine when you get to the game. If it is another problem then moving localtion will not help.

Go Trojans. Beat Stanford. (USC season ticket holder since 2001.)

Rick R

Back on topic, I had it switched to "Air" mode, and the signal meter option was still grayed-out. I'm not sure if it is because I am not getting a digital signal or if the TV tuner is broken or if somewhere deep in the TV menu the digital tuner default settings were accidently set to off.

The closest manual I could find was this one:

http://www.sharpusa.com/files/tel_man_LC37SH20U.pdf

Does yours have similar instructions? Page 22 is of interest.

It looks like the signal meter is reporting the strength for the current channel. Perhaps if the channel was not added to the list when you did a scan, it won't show up here.

How many OTA channels were reported by the scan? Did it scan both analog and digital?

In any event, you will want to re-run the scan when you get to the Coliseum.

The closest manual I could find was this one:

http://www.sharpusa.com/files/tel_man_LC37SH20U.pdf

Does yours have similar instructions? Page 22 is of interest.

It looks like the signal meter is reporting the strength for the current channel. Perhaps if the channel was not added to the list when you did a scan, it won't show up here.

How many OTA channels were reported by the scan? Did it scan both analog and digital?

In any event, you will want to re-run the scan when you get to the Coliseum.
My TV's manual is different than this one, but you have given me some ideas. Thanks.

I guess I will just have to take some different antennas and make a special trip over the hill(s) to test out the TV again. If it does not register a digital signal then I will take it back to Costco and exchange it for a different TV (same model).

So far, no one has said anything bad about the antennas I listed previously. That is encouraging.

So far, no one has said anything bad about the antennas I listed previously. That is encouraging.

They should do the job for UHF. The only problem is that they are expensive. You will probably have as much luck with a $10 rabbit ears/loop combo (unamplified) for the Coliseum area.

For Santa Clarita, well, only the best will do, but I'm guessing that is not a concern atm.

Fight on.

They should do the job for UHF. The only problem is that they are expensive. You will probably have as much luck with a $10 rabbit ears/loop combo (unamplified) for the Coliseum area.

For Santa Clarita, well, only the best will do, but I'm guessing that is not a concern atm.

Fight on.
This is the cheapest antenna that I tried, and it did not pick up a Digital signal in the Coliseum area:

Amplified VHF/UHF/FM Indoor Antenna (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103916&cp=2032057&categoryId=2032057&kwCatId=2032057&parentPage=search)

Two weeks ago at the last home game I used that antenna and only got an Analog signal.

How did the analog signals look? Were they badly ghosted or were they generally watchable?

It looks like Mt. Wilson is behind the high rises, so maybe that is causing some problems, but I would think that something would show up.

If you haven't been able to get even 1 digital channel to show up, I have to think that it is a problem in the digital TV setup menu or a problem with the unit itself.

Have you tried calling Sharp?

How did the analog signals look? Were they badly ghosted or were they generally watchable?

It looks like Mt. Wilson is behind the high rises, so maybe that is causing some problems, but I would think that something would show up.

If you haven't been able to get even 1 digital channel to show up, I have to think that it is a problem in the digital TV setup menu or a problem with the unit itself.

Have you tried calling Sharp?
I finally figured it out. Part of my problem was what you pointed out about the signal meter only checking the current channel, and not the overall signal strength. The other mistake was not noticing that the remote had a "." button that you had to use to get to channel "7.1" as opposed to analog channel 7 (for example). I had just assumed that the TV would default to the digital channel if it was available.

I was able to test the TV out and confirmed that it worked by paying closer attention to the antennawebdotorg site, adjusting the map location a little (in Santa Clarita the signal difference between nearby locations is huge), and then clicking on the specific map that shows an arrow for the location of the group A channels, and group B channels, etc. The only digital channel I could receive was MTV Tr3s (MTV 3 mostly in Spanish) broadcasting out of Oxnard on channel 24.1 and 63.1. That allowed me to play around with the TV options and confirm that it worked.

To answer your other question, I contacted Sharp 2X. The first time they were no help, and they have not responded yet to my 2nd help request.

Thanks for your help. I got your PM and am keeping your # handy just in case.

EDIT: I wish I had read the manual more closely. The very fine print had the answers I was looking for. However, out of all the ways to hook up this TV, getting a digital OTA signal is most difficult out of all the options. It's easy to get an analog signal, or to hook up a STB to the other inputs, but to get a digital OTA signal you have to go through 5X more steps. It seems like they could make it easier, but few people watch TV this way so they have no incentive.

I'm glad that you got it working. It's too bad that Sharp made it so difficult. Eventually, I hope that TV's will have digital as the default choice. I would expect this to happen by 2009, but earlier would be a good idea as well.

On my Sony, if I don't type in the dot, even in digital only mode, the screen will just stay blank and say no signal. It would be too easy if it gave me a list of channels on that frequency if I left the dot off.

I recently helped out a friend with his new HDTV and the air-cable mode was buried in a place that I wasn't able to guess. Manufacturers don't seem to be taking OTA seriously, but I guess that's no real surprise.

Let us know how many channels you can pull in tomorrow. I am curious to see what effect the high rises have.

Is it just me, why do the National KABC OTA audio feed sound so Mono in 5.1, it has to be the worst audio ever. On top of that when they switch to the studio the volume is 10x louder. Is it KABC or does audio just blow for ABC Sports in HD?

USCsuperfan,

try a Philips or Zenith Silver Sensor, only about 20 bucks, and very portable. Much better than that stuff from Radio Shack.
new name for it:
Philips PHDTV1 Indoor Digital HDTV-UHF Antenna - HDTV Antenna - US2-PHDTV1

Hi all,
I live in Placentia around Alta Vista and Rose, and I just got a new Sharp Aquos and hooked it up to a rabbit ear to see if I get anything. To my surprise I did get some HD channels - CBS, NBC, CW, KCAL, FOX to name a few.

Do you think I'll be able to get more HD channels if I were to get a Silver Sensor?

Also, does anyone else have an Aquos(64U variety)? I'm having some issues with the Autoscan and channel memory. It doesn't allow you to manually tune into a channel that it didn't pick up during the autoscan process. Before I was able to get ABC 7.1, and now it's gone and I can't add it or tune in.

Hi all,
I live in Placentia around Alta Vista and Rose, and I just got a new Sharp Aquos and hooked it up to a rabbit ear to see if I get anything. To my surprise I did get some HD channels - CBS, NBC, CW, KCAL, FOX to name a few.

Do you think I'll be able to get more HD channels if I were to get a Silver Sensor?

Maybe a few more, although most will be Spanish, ethnic programming, or religious. (I assume you mean digital channels. Most of the others aren't HD yet.)

Get an outdoor antenna if you possibly can. You should be able to point it at Mount Wilson and get everybody.

Good luck with that Aquos. If there's really no way to manually add a channel, then that's quite a design flaw!

Picture quality on channel 4.2 and 4.4 are almost unwatchable? Any suggestions? I am in Fullerton and just put up a square shooter. A few of the other channels are pretty good and so it 4.1.

Thanks,

Jeff

Just got D* yesterday in the Los Angeles area and not quite happy with the Local channels in HD. Wanted to know if anyone has experiences or recommendations with this OTA Antenna????

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2253765&cp=&parentPage=search

Below you will find my AntennaWeb specs. I live in ZIP: 91316. Single family home

AntennaWeb:


* yellow - uhf KCET-DT 28.1 PBS LOS ANGELES CA 69° 26.5 59
* yellow - uhf KFTR-DT 46.1 TFA ONTARIO CA 68° 26.3 29
* yellow - uhf KAZA-DT 54.1 AZA AVALON CA 68° 26.3 47
* yellow - uhf KNBC-DT 4.1 NBC LOS ANGELES CA 69° 26.4 36
* yellow - uhf KJLA-DT 57.1 IND VENTURA CA 68° 26.3 49
* yellow - uhf KTTV-DT 11.1 FOX LOS ANGELES CA 69° 26.5 65
* yellow - uhf KMEX-DT 34.1 UNI LOS ANGELES CA 68° 26.3 35
* yellow - uhf KOCE-DT 50.1 PBS HUNTINGTON BEACH CA 68° 26.3 48
* yellow - uhf KDOC-DT 56.1 IND ANAHEIM CA 68° 26.3 32
* yellow - uhf KVEA-DT 39 TEL CORONA CA TBD 70° 26.5 39
* yellow - uhf KTBN-DT 23.1 TBN SANTA ANA CA 69° 26.5 23
* yellow - uhf KCAL-DT 9.1 IND LOS ANGELES CA 68° 26.3 43
* yellow - uhf KCBS-DT 2.1 CBS LOS ANGELES CA 68° 26.1 60
* yellow - uhf KRCA-DT 62.1 IND RIVERSIDE CA 70° 26.5 68
* yellow - uhf KXLA-DT 44.1 IND RANCHO PALOS VERDES CA 68° 26.3 51
* yellow - uhf KTLA-DT 5.1 CW LOS ANGELES CA 68° 26.4 31
* yellow - uhf KABC-DT 7.1 ABC LOS ANGELES CA 68° 26.3 5

Does it have to be indoor?


Just got D* yesterday in the Los Angeles area and not quite happy with the Local channels in HD. Wanted to know if anyone has experiences or recommendations with this OTA Antenna????

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2253765&cp=&parentPage=search

Below you will find my AntennaWeb specs. I live in ZIP: 91316. Single family home

AntennaWeb:


* yellow - uhf KCET-DT 28.1 PBS LOS ANGELES CA 69° 26.5 59
* yellow - uhf KFTR-DT 46.1 TFA ONTARIO CA 68° 26.3 29
* yellow - uhf KAZA-DT 54.1 AZA AVALON CA 68° 26.3 47
* yellow - uhf KNBC-DT 4.1 NBC LOS ANGELES CA 69° 26.4 36
* yellow - uhf KJLA-DT 57.1 IND VENTURA CA 68° 26.3 49
* yellow - uhf KTTV-DT 11.1 FOX LOS ANGELES CA 69° 26.5 65
* yellow - uhf KMEX-DT 34.1 UNI LOS ANGELES CA 68° 26.3 35
* yellow - uhf KOCE-DT 50.1 PBS HUNTINGTON BEACH CA 68° 26.3 48
* yellow - uhf KDOC-DT 56.1 IND ANAHEIM CA 68° 26.3 32
* yellow - uhf KVEA-DT 39 TEL CORONA CA TBD 70° 26.5 39
* yellow - uhf KTBN-DT 23.1 TBN SANTA ANA CA 69° 26.5 23
* yellow - uhf KCAL-DT 9.1 IND LOS ANGELES CA 68° 26.3 43
* yellow - uhf KCBS-DT 2.1 CBS LOS ANGELES CA 68° 26.1 60
* yellow - uhf KRCA-DT 62.1 IND RIVERSIDE CA 70° 26.5 68
* yellow - uhf KXLA-DT 44.1 IND RANCHO PALOS VERDES CA 68° 26.3 51
* yellow - uhf KTLA-DT 5.1 CW LOS ANGELES CA 68° 26.4 31
* yellow - uhf KABC-DT 7.1 ABC LOS ANGELES CA 68° 26.3 5

http://la.curbed.com/archives/2007/10/more_on_nbc_rel.php

Looks like NBC West Coast, KNBC, KVEA, and KWHY may move out of Burbank and into Universal City across from Universal Studios and around the Universal City Metro Red Line subway station.

My Voom suddenly stopped picking up CBS. Every time I go to that channel the reciever blinks and resets. Same thing happened a while back with KCET-DT 28.1 PBS, which sadly hasn't worked since. Anyone have the same problem and know what's going on?

I live in Placentia around Alta Vista and Rose, and I just got a new Sharp Aquos and hooked it up to a rabbit ear to see if I get anything. To my surprise I did get some HD channels - CBS, NBC, CW, KCAL, FOX to name a few.

Do you think I'll be able to get more HD channels if I were to get a Silver Sensor?

You should be able to add ABC and the PBS stations (KCET, KOCE & KLCS) with the Silver Sensor, if your view towards Mt. Wilson is relatively clear. The hardest to pick-up that I've found is KCOP. The tower is lower and I'd guess that they aren't even broadcasting up to their licensed ERP allotment.

My Sony has a separate menu to allow for individual channels to be added. I would hope that the Sharp has the same thing. If not, how would people who live in regions requiring a rotator be able to add all the channels? Maybe some manufacturers haven't considered this.

Do your rabbit ears have a loop as well, for UHF? Rabbit Ears are designed for VHF, but I've been able to pickup a number UHF channels on them. The local digital channels are UHF, for now.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2253765&cp=&parentPage=search

Below you will find my AntennaWeb specs. I live in ZIP: 91316. Single family home

It would probably do the job, but then so may a $10 rabbit ear/loop combo. However, a Silver Sensor would probably be a better choice.

There are a couple of weak signal spots nearby, but if you aren't looking through any hills, you should be in good shape.

Picture quality on channel 4.2 and 4.4 are almost unwatchable? Any suggestions? I am in Fullerton and just put up a square shooter. A few of the other channels are pretty good and so it 4.1.

Don't worry about the quality on these sub-channels. They have very limited bit rates and shouldn't be taken seriously as re picture quality. I think quite a few of us would give a rousing cheer if they (and ABC) dropped these (as they leech the bit rate from main HD signal).

My Voom suddenly stopped picking up CBS. Every time I go to that channel the reciever blinks and resets. Same thing happened a while back with KCET-DT 28.1 PBS, which sadly hasn't worked since. Anyone have the same problem and know what's going on?

CBS to Carry Gemstar-TV Guide IPG Data
TV Guide On Screen to Be Available to 95% of U.S. Households
By Todd Spangler -- Multichannel News, 4/19/2007 11:33:00 AM

CBS’ local stations will distribute Gemstar-TV Guide International’s on-screen interactive-program-guide data using a portion of their digital spectrum as part of a multiyear distribution and advertising deal that Gemstar said will make its IPG available to more than 95% of U.S. households.

The deal gives Gemstar-TV Guide a digital distribution channel to reach TV viewers with an on-screen guide. Currently, the company contracts with National Datacast, a for-profit subsidiary of PBS, which uses the vertical-blanking interval in the analog spectrum to distribute data.

Gemstar-TV Guide put the deal in place with an eye on the Federal Communications Commission’s February 2009 deadline for discontinuing analog broadcasts, said Tom Carson, the company’s president of North American IPG.

The agreement, announced Wednesday (April 18, 2007), allows for the distribution of data for the TV Guide On Screen IPG over both CBS owned-and-operated stations and participating affiliates. The companies said distribution will begin as soon as the necessary equipment is installed in the next several months. Financial terms were not disclosed.

CBS and its affiliates have access to an unspecified portion of the ad inventory on the TV Guide IPG to promote their programming, both nationally and locally, but the stations will not be permitted to sell to outside advertisers.

Why CBS? “We were looking for a partner that might have been interested in our advertising and also had a good, solid distribution network and a good, solid relationship with their affiliates,” Carson said.

Gemstar-TV Guide’s deal with CBS is not technically exclusive, but, Carson said, “This is clearly the single way we want to do our [digital] distribution.”

Only viewers who have digital-TV sets or digital-video recorders that embed the TV Guide On Screen technology will be able to access the IPG. Manufacturers that have signed deals with Gemstar-TV Guide to embed the IPG in their consumer-electronics products include Mitsubishi, Hitachi, Panasonic and Sony Electronics.

http://www.multichannel.com/index.asp?layout=articlePrint&articleID=CA6435011

You should be able to add ABC and the PBS stations (KCET, KOCE & KLCS) with the Silver Sensor, if your view towards Mt. Wilson is relatively clear. The hardest to pick-up that I've found is KCOP. The tower is lower and I'd guess that they aren't even broadcasting up to their licensed ERP allotment.

My Sony has a separate menu to allow for individual channels to be added. I would hope that the Sharp has the same thing. If not, how would people who live in regions requiring a rotator be able to add all the channels? Maybe some manufacturers haven't considered this.

Do your rabbit ears have a loop as well, for UHF? Rabbit Ears are designed for VHF, but I've been able to pickup a number UHF channels on them. The local digital channels are UHF, for now.


Thanks for your reply.

Unfortunately, I have not found a way to add a channel and when I spoke to the Sharp rep. he pretty much said the signal is too weak to pick up even if I were to add it manually.

As for the rabbit ear, it is a VHF one without the loop. I was surprised to pick up any with them. What funny is that I couldn't pick up decent VHF signals with them on my analog tv.

USCsuperfan,

try a Philips or Zenith Silver Sensor, only about 20 bucks, and very portable. Much better than that stuff from Radio Shack.
new name for it:
Philips PHDTV1 Indoor Digital HDTV-UHF Antenna - HDTV Antenna - US2-PHDTV1
On the $50 RadioShack antenna (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2253765) I was able to get every channel that antennaweb lists (and all the subchannels, ie 7.1, 7.2. 7.5) in 100% signal strength. I got a great picture.

But then there were a rush of cars into the parking lot we were in, lasting an hour, that disrupted the signal, especially for ABC (7.1). Although the Tv's signal meter would show 100% strength, the signal would briefly freeze, or go black and the message "Low Signal Strength" or "Digital Channel is Scrambled" would appear. The signal outage would only last a second, but would occur every 10-30 seconds. It was very annoying.

Any ideas on what caused this problem (all the car radio antennas perhaps), and would the Phillips antenna be able to overcome this?

Does it have to be indoor?

I acctually bought the Radio Shack antenna and works great!

Now able to record OTA and SAT.....

CBS to Carry Gemstar-TV Guide IPG Data
TV Guide On Screen to Be Available to 95% of U.S. Households
By Todd Spangler -- Multichannel News, 4/19/2007 11:33:00 AM

CBS’ local stations will distribute Gemstar-TV Guide International’s on-screen interactive-program-guide data using a portion of their digital spectrum as part of a multiyear distribution and advertising deal that Gemstar said will make its IPG available to more than 95% of U.S. households.

The deal gives Gemstar-TV Guide a digital distribution channel to reach TV viewers with an on-screen guide. Currently, the company contracts with National Datacast, a for-profit subsidiary of PBS, which uses the vertical-blanking interval in the analog spectrum to distribute data.

Gemstar-TV Guide put the deal in place with an eye on the Federal Communications Commission’s February 2009 deadline for discontinuing analog broadcasts, said Tom Carson, the company’s president of North American IPG.

The agreement, announced Wednesday (April 18, 2007), allows for the distribution of data for the TV Guide On Screen IPG over both CBS owned-and-operated stations and participating affiliates. The companies said distribution will begin as soon as the necessary equipment is installed in the next several months. Financial terms were not disclosed.

CBS and its affiliates have access to an unspecified portion of the ad inventory on the TV Guide IPG to promote their programming, both nationally and locally, but the stations will not be permitted to sell to outside advertisers.

Why CBS? “We were looking for a partner that might have been interested in our advertising and also had a good, solid distribution network and a good, solid relationship with their affiliates,” Carson said.

Gemstar-TV Guide’s deal with CBS is not technically exclusive, but, Carson said, “This is clearly the single way we want to do our [digital] distribution.”

Only viewers who have digital-TV sets or digital-video recorders that embed the TV Guide On Screen technology will be able to access the IPG. Manufacturers that have signed deals with Gemstar-TV Guide to embed the IPG in their consumer-electronics products include Mitsubishi, Hitachi, Panasonic and Sony Electronics.

http://www.multichannel.com/index.asp?layout=articlePrint&articleID=CA6435011
I have emailed CBS 2 technical support about this issue. All of us Voom owners in Los Angeles are probably going to be SOL, but I will post whatever response I get from them. Losing KCET-DT 28.1 PBS last year was bad enough, but this is a major network. I may have to complain to the FCC about this one.

The real problem is that the Voom receiver is outdated needs a software update to be standards compliant, but has no company to make that update since Voom went under. I'm not sure what you think the FCC should do since KCBS and KCET are doing nothing wrong and your own equipment is clearly the cause of the issue.

On the $50 RadioShack antenna (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2253765) I was able to get every channel that antennaweb lists (and all the subchannels, ie 7.1, 7.2. 7.5) in 100% signal strength. I got a great picture.

But then there were a rush of cars into the parking lot we were in, lasting an hour, that disrupted the signal, especially for ABC (7.1). Although the Tv's signal meter would show 100% strength, the signal would briefly freeze, or go black and the message "Low Signal Strength" or "Digital Channel is Scrambled" would appear. The signal outage would only last a second, but would occur every 10-30 seconds. It was very annoying.

Any ideas on what caused this problem (all the car radio antennas perhaps), and would the Phillips antenna be able to overcome this?
Multipath reflections caused by the cars. Signal coming direct and off the car cancelling each other briefly. Strong signal, but unable to decode. That is my guess. Dan

Multipath reflections caused by the cars. Signal coming direct and off the car cancelling each other briefly. Strong signal, but unable to decode. That is my guess. Dan
So I guess I would have this problem with any comparable antenna at this location? I mounted the antenna only 6 feet off the ground (to the leg of our EZ-up tent). Would it help if I mounted it higher?

Thanks for the insight.

Higher is generally better and is worth a shot. You may also want to try pointing the antenna in another direction when the cars get in the way. Other, more directional antennas may resist multipath better as well.

If you didn't take back the others yet, it may be worth seeing if any of them handle it better.

The real problem is that the Voom receiver is outdated needs a software update to be standards compliant, but has no company to make that update since Voom went under. I'm not sure what you think the FCC should do since KCBS and KCET are doing nothing wrong and your own equipment is clearly the cause of the issue.

Motorola is the OEM of the Voom boxes. How could they be approached?

I think something really good is happening. :) It looks like KVCR is about to start transmitting their content in HD. When I tuned into KVCR this evening I saw that they split their digital stream into 4 channels.
24.1 is labeled KVCR_HD - no content on it yet,
24.2 is labeled KVCR_1 - the content is their analog stream
24.3 is labeled KVCR_2 - the content I couldn't recognize
24.4 is labeled KVCR_3 - no content on it yet either.

If this happens this would bring the total OTA HD count to 13, and be a wonderful wonderful news. I think it's time for me to include KVCR in my yearly donation list of PBS stations.

Rudy

Good news! Now, I will need to step up my efforts to get it. I have been able to get the analog signal to come in ok - still a bit snowy at best. However, the digital is remains just below the threshold.

Looking at the power levels and tower heights for KVCR, they appear to be similar (after adjusting ERP for digital by 5x). It makes me wonder just how strong a digital signal needs to be as compared to analog.

As KVCR is 65 degrees off of the Mt. Wilson stations, it appears to be in a side lobe of the CM4228. I should adjust the mount of the 4228 to allow me to turn it, but space in my attic is at a premium. I have also tried the UHF portion of a CM3020 UHF/VHF combo to get it, but no dice yet.

So I guess I would have this problem with any comparable antenna at this location? I mounted the antenna only 6 feet off the ground (to the leg of our EZ-up tent). Would it help if I mounted it higher?

Thanks for the insight.
You got a good reply from Falcon_77. I would also add tipping the antenna up so the car roofs are out of the "strong" region of the antenna. More directional or getting the interfering signal out of the pattern of the antenna are the ideas. Higher will also get the reflections off the car roofs more out of the pattern. Think of the signals. When a car drives by, with the antenna at 6 feet, the signal hits the antenna direct and reflects off the roof of the cars which takes a longer distance to the antenna. These 2 signals would usually reach the antenna "out of phase" (at least somewhat) and would interfere and mess up the decoding even though you have a strong signal. Some people have this issue with roof mounted antennas and reflections off fixed items (mountains, houses, trees). Also airplanes have been known to cause temporary problems reflecting signals to an antenna. In the analog realm you see flashing brightness during this type of activity. Dan (USC '83)

So I guess I would have this problem with any comparable antenna at this location? I mounted the antenna only 6 feet off the ground (to the leg of our EZ-up tent). Would it help if I mounted it higher?

Thanks for the insight.

I noticed that the game on KABC will not be in HD this week. The game will be in HD for me as I will be at the game. Also Sanchez will be the quarterback. Go Trojans.

Rick R

Good news! Now, I will need to step up my efforts to get it. I have been able to get the analog signal to come in ok - still a bit snowy at best. However, the digital is remains just below the threshold.

Looking at the power levels and tower heights for KVCR, they appear to be similar (after adjusting ERP for digital by 5x). It makes me wonder just how strong a digital signal needs to be as compared to analog.

As KVCR is 65 degrees off of the Mt. Wilson stations, it appears to be in a side lobe of the CM4228. I should adjust the mount of the 4228 to allow me to turn it, but space in my attic is at a premium. I have also tried the UHF portion of a CM3020 UHF/VHF combo to get it, but no dice yet.
Well I was going to start giving you a suggestions like keep turning your antenna until the station comes in and such. But then I realized that you know a whole lot more about OTA reception than I do, :) so I'll simply say good luck and I hope you succeed.

Rudy

Motorola is the OEM of the Voom boxes. How could they be approached?You could try finding a contact from their website, but odds are that the Voom box has custom software and Motorola won't be able to help due to technical or legal issues.

50.1 koce has severe audio sync issues today 10/13 12.30pm [design E2]

PQ is pretty bad also. looks like internet video!

50.2/3/4 seem fine

the PBS channels all used to be pretty good at this OTA HD stuff, but it seems lately that they have lost the plot.

While browsing the TV's in the local Best Buy, I found out that they are using the antenna on their roof. They put their internal content on 17.1 and 19.1, but many other channels that we normally see were available as well (2.1, 4.1, 7.1, etc). I had to do a re-scan on a few to get some to show up, but it was still a pleasant surprise to get OTA DTV in the store.

It was also nice to compare how effective the respective tuners were. Some TV's couldn't get channel 2 very well, etc. and they seemed to have the same approximate number of splits to each respective set.

I also saw that KTLA was broadcasting Kiki's Delivery Service (the anime movie), so I sent them a thank you note for that. I also asked if they had considered an anime channel for a sub-channel now that The Tube is gone. If not, I hope they show more anime as I'm still a bit upset of the loss of the Funimation Channel.

I'm a newbie here. Just went OTA last month. I live in Glendale and have a clear shot to Mt. Wilson (I can see the towers from my house). My beef is with KABC. Their transmissions can get spotty and since Sunday night I haven't gotten an HD signal. Has anyone else had problems getting KABC HD? I even sent an email to the FCC (what's the point of sending it to KABC?). BTW, nice to see other Trojans on this site.
Glad the Domer game is on NBC this week. I have no problem picking up CBS and NBC. In fact, I like the picture on both stations since they broadcast in 1080i.

FIGHT ON!!!
BEAT THE IRISH!!!

"A Trojan Family since 1936"

Well folks it was fun having it, although I can't say I watched it all the time. But The Tube network is no more, as of October 1st according to their site.
http://www.thetubetv.com/

Rudy

That sucks. We just started watching it a month ago.
Wasn't in HD but what the hell.


"A Trojan Family since 1936"

I'm a newbie here. Just went OTA last month. I live in Glendale and have a clear shot to Mt. Wilson (I can see the towers from my house). My beef is with KABC. Their transmissions can get spotty and since Sunday night I haven't gotten an HD signal. Has anyone else had problems getting KABC HD? I even sent an email to the FCC (what's the point of sending it to KABC?). BTW, nice to see other Trojans on this site.


I'm getting a strong signal (and clear picture) in Torrance. That close to the mountains (and even when you can see the transmitter), you can get reflections which can affect the signal. You might try aiming your antenna to one side or another but that will be a compromise with the other stations.

I'm a newbie here. Just went OTA last month. I live in Glendale and have a clear shot to Mt. Wilson (I can see the towers from my house). My beef is with KABC. Their transmissions can get spotty and since Sunday night I haven't gotten an HD signal. Has anyone else had problems getting KABC HD? I even sent an email to the FCC (what's the point of sending it to KABC?). BTW, nice to see other Trojans on this site.
Glad the Domer game is on NBC this week. I have no problem picking up CBS and NBC. In fact, I like the picture on both stations since they broadcast in 1080i.

FIGHT ON!!!
BEAT THE IRISH!!!

"A Trojan Family since 1936"

I'm getting a strong signal (and clear picture) in Torrance. That close to the mountains (and even when you can see the transmitter), you can get reflections which can affect the signal. You might try aiming your antenna to one side or another but that will be a compromise with the other stations.

Yeah I'd pretty much second what jmonier said. There's nothing KABC can do for you really. I find that if I point my antenna a bit more due east I find KABC there, although that might be specific to my multipath course. So you'll have to play with yours to see where it is.

Good Luck.
Rudy

I'm a newbie here. Just went OTA last month. I live in Glendale and have a clear shot to Mt. Wilson (I can see the towers from my house). My beef is with KABC. Their transmissions can get spotty and since Sunday night I haven't gotten an HD signal. Has anyone else had problems getting KABC HD?

KABC-DT is the 2nd worst signal I can readily receive. KCBS and KNBC are among the strongest from where I am at.

What kind of antenna and receiver/TV are you using? Do you have any signal strength or SNR gauges on it?

You may need a more directional antenna to help tame any multipath problems. As the others have noted, you may also be able to cure it by pointing the antenna in another direction.

Problem solved. Loose RG6 connector. When I cut the cable, I just pushed the connector into place without crimping it. But we're back in business now.

HDTV OTA 101 - Check your connections! LOL!!!

Thanks for the suggestions.

Now who do we complain to about that the half-stretch that KABC does to their 4x3 source programs that are shown as ~14x9 on the HD channel ... yuck I can't stand watching Ebert & Roeper this way.

You can complain to the Pope for all the good it'll do. We've called, emailed, snail-mailed, put voodoo hexes on them, spray-painted their news chopper pink, replaced their regular coffee with Folgers Crystals, all to no avail. I was going to start campaigning their sponsors (whose ads are getting mangled), then I remembered that I have a life.

On the plus side, we (the folks on this board) were successful in convincing KNBC and KTLA to quit doing the same thing. On the minus side, I've caught KOCE doing it on the rare occasions that they upscale 4x3.

Well I went abc7.com and submitted my complaint to the engineering dept.

If it bugs others, please chime in.

Thanks

TIM

Will do, but odds are it isn't the engineering department's decision. It's some chowderhead executive who's opposed to black bars.

Problem solved. Loose RG6 connector. When I cut the cable, I just pushed the connector into place without crimping it. But we're back in business now.

HDTV OTA 101 - Check your connections! LOL!!!

Thanks for the suggestions.
wambi, good to see you on here. I remember meeting you at a wearescdotcom meet & greet in Burbank. I was the one who brought along my pregnant wife.

You can complain to the Pope for all the good it'll do. We've called, emailed, snail-mailed, put voodoo hexes on them, spray-painted their news chopper pink, replaced their regular coffee with Folgers Crystals, all to no avail. I was going to start campaigning their sponsors (whose ads are getting mangled), then I remembered that I have a life.


This is my position also. I emailed many years ago but I gave up. When I watch The Bachelor I record the SD satellite channel. The 14x9 makes the women look fat so I will not watch stretched, period. You know what really looks bad is stretched car commercials it makes the cars look squashed and really ugly. I don't know how the advertisers put up with this.

Rick R

USCsuperfan,

What a small world. Glad to see you here too. My problems were mostly with KABC but HD reception has been fine the last few days (so far). Luckily, I live near San Fernando Rd so I have a clear line of sight to Mt. Wilson ( just barely clear the Verdugo Mtns.). Gotta do another meet & greet at G. Biersch. Regards to your wife.

FIGHT ON!!!

It appears that something has happened to the towers. Digital KCBS, KLCS and KDOC are off the air. So was FOX 11 and KCAL for a brief period. This seemed to happen all at once.

With all the wind and fires going on today, it makes me wonder what is happening on Mt. Wilson.

Stay safe out there, it looks like it's going to be a tough night with these Santa Ana winds and fires.

It appears that something has happened to the towers. Digital KCBS, KLCS and KDOC are off the air. So was FOX 11 and KCAL for a brief period. This seemed to happen all at once.

With all the wind and fires going on today, it makes me wonder what is happening on Mt. Wilson.

Stay safe out there, it looks like it's going to be a tough night with these Santa Ana winds and fires.

Thanks. I noticed the same thing. I was watching 60 minutes KCBS (2.1) and the signal dropped off. So I went to Analog 2 which was still broadcasting. My OTA reception changes during the day, it's not very consistent and I live about 10 miles from the Antenna.

Yes, so much for watching Viva Laughlin tonight on CBS. I'm completely reliant on OTA so I'm screwed.

Ah well, the show sucks anyway!

Earlier, I had no picture on KCBS, but it appeared to have PSIP since the program info was shown correctly.
Everything seems to working again as of 11 pm now.

Earlier, I had no picture on KCBS, but it appeared to have PSIP since the program info was shown correctly.
Everything seems to working again as of 11 pm now.

It must have kicked in around 10 or so as Shark recorded OK in HD.

The tree near my antenna had branches break off in the wind and they hit my antenna. My antenna now is not pointed correctly but it still receives Channels 4 & 5 ok. The broken elements are the VHF part of the antenna so it hasn't affected my reception too much. (I have a Winegard 8200 UHF/VHF antenna.)

This wind is a real antenna test.

Rick R

Hi all. I live in 90503, here's my antennaweb stats:

DTV Antenna
Type Call Sign Channel Network City State Live
Date Compass
Orientation Miles
From Frequency
Assignment
* yellow - uhf KABC-DT 7.1 ABC LOS ANGELES CA 19° 32.6 53
* yellow - uhf KJLA-DT 57.1 IND VENTURA CA 19° 32.6 49
yellow - uhf KCET 28 PBS LOS ANGELES CA 19° 32.5 28
* yellow - uhf KCET-DT 28.1 PBS LOS ANGELES CA 19° 32.5 59
* yellow - uhf KFTR-DT 46.1 TFA ONTARIO CA 19° 32.6 29
yellow - uhf KAZA 54 AZA AVALON CA 19° 32.6 54
* yellow - uhf KAZA-DT 54.1 AZA AVALON CA 19° 32.6 47
* yellow - uhf KCOP-DT 13.1 MNT LOS ANGELES CA 19° 32.6 66
yellow - uhf KLCS 58 PBS LOS ANGELES CA 19° 32.5 58
* yellow - uhf KPXN-DT 30.1 ION SAN BERNARDINO CA 20° 31.9 38
yellow - uhf KRCA 62 IND RIVERSIDE CA 20° 32.0 62
* yellow - uhf KRCA-DT 62.1 IND RIVERSIDE CA 20° 32.0 68
yellow - uhf KXLA 44 IND RANCHO PALOS VERDES CA 19° 32.6 44
* yellow - uhf KTTV-DT 11.1 FOX LOS ANGELES CA 19° 32.6 65
yellow - uhf KMEX 34 UNI LOS ANGELES CA 19° 32.6 34
* yellow - uhf KMEX-DT 34.1 UNI LOS ANGELES CA 19° 32.6 35
* yellow - uhf KCAL-DT 9.1 IND LOS ANGELES CA 19° 32.6 43
* yellow - uhf KCBS-DT 2.1 CBS LOS ANGELES CA 18° 32.7 60
yellow - uhf KOCE 50 PBS HUNTINGTON BEACH CA 19° 32.6 50
* yellow - uhf KOCE-DT 50.1 PBS HUNTINGTON BEACH CA 19° 32.6 48
yellow - uhf KDOC 56 IND ANAHEIM CA 19° 32.6 56
* yellow - uhf KDOC-DT 56.1 IND ANAHEIM CA 19° 32.6 32
* yellow - uhf KTLA-DT 5.1 CW LOS ANGELES CA 19° 32.6 31
yellow - uhf KTBN 40 TBN SANTA ANA CA 19° 32.6 40
* yellow - uhf KTBN-DT 23.1 TBN SANTA ANA CA 19° 32.6 23
green - vhf KTLA 5 CW LOS ANGELES CA 19° 32.6 5
green - uhf KWHY 22 IND LOS ANGELES CA 19° 32.6 22
green - uhf KVEA 52 TEL CORONA CA 20° 31.9 52
* green - uhf KVEA-DT 39 TEL CORONA CA TBD 20° 32.0 39
green - vhf KCBS 2 CBS LOS ANGELES CA 18° 32.7 2
green - vhf KABC 7 ABC LOS ANGELES CA 19° 32.6 7
green - vhf KTTV 11 FOX LOS ANGELES CA 19° 32.6 11
green - vhf KCAL 9 IND LOS ANGELES CA 19° 32.6 9
* green - uhf KXLA-DT 44.1 IND RANCHO PALOS VERDES CA 19° 32.6 51
green - uhf KSCI 18 IND LONG BEACH CA 20° 31.9 18
* green - uhf KLCS-DT 58.1 PBS LOS ANGELES CA 19° 32.5 41
green - uhf KFTR 46 TFA LOS ANGELES CA 19° 32.6 46
green - vhf KNBC 4 NBC LOS ANGELES CA 19° 32.6 4
* green - uhf KNBC-DT 4.1 NBC LOS ANGELES CA 19° 32.6 36
green - vhf KCOP 13 MNT LOS ANGELES CA 19° 32.6 13
lt green - uhf KSMV-LP 33 IND SIMI VALLEY CA 19° 32.6 33
* red - uhf KSCI-DT 18.1 IND LONG BEACH CA 20° 32.0 61
* red - uhf KWHY-DT 22.1 IND LOS ANGELES CA 19° 32.6 42
blue - uhf KPXN 30 ION SAN BERNARDINO CA 44° 45.7 30
* blue - uhf KVMD-DT 23.1 IND TWENTYNINE PALMS CA 67° 90.4 23
blue - uhf KVCR 24 PBS SAN BERNARDINO CA 68° 63.0 24
* violet - uhf KVCR-DT 24.1 PBS SAN BERNARDINO CA 68° 63.0 26
Note:
The above listing is a conservative prediction of stations received. Depending on the specifics of your installation, you may be able to receive stations that do not appear in this list.

DTV Antenna
Type Call Sign Channel Network City State Live
Date Compass
Orientation Miles
From Frequency
Assignment
yellow - uhf KCET 28 PBS LOS ANGELES CA 19° 32.5 28
yellow - uhf KAZA 54 AZA AVALON CA 19° 32.6 54
yellow - uhf KLCS 58 PBS LOS ANGELES CA 19° 32.5 58
yellow - uhf KRCA 62 IND RIVERSIDE CA 20° 32.0 62
yellow - uhf KXLA 44 IND RANCHO PALOS VERDES CA 19° 32.6 44
yellow - uhf KMEX 34 UNI LOS ANGELES CA 19° 32.6 34
yellow - uhf KOCE 50 PBS HUNTINGTON BEACH CA 19° 32.6 50
yellow - uhf KDOC 56 IND ANAHEIM CA 19° 32.6 56
yellow - uhf KTBN 40 TBN SANTA ANA CA 19° 32.6 40
green - vhf KTLA 5 CW LOS ANGELES CA 19° 32.6 5
green - uhf KWHY 22 IND LOS ANGELES CA 19° 32.6 22
green - uhf KVEA 52 TEL CORONA CA 20° 31.9 52
green - vhf KCBS 2 CBS LOS ANGELES CA 18° 32.7 2
green - vhf KABC 7 ABC LOS ANGELES CA 19° 32.6 7
green - vhf KTTV 11 FOX LOS ANGELES CA 19° 32.6 11
green - vhf KCAL 9 IND LOS ANGELES CA 19° 32.6 9
green - uhf KSCI 18 IND LONG BEACH CA 20° 31.9 18
green - uhf KFTR 46 TFA LOS ANGELES CA 19° 32.6 46
green - vhf KNBC 4 NBC LOS ANGELES CA 19° 32.6 4
green - vhf KCOP 13 MNT LOS ANGELES CA 19° 32.6 13
lt green - uhf KSMV-LP 33 IND SIMI VALLEY CA 19° 32.6 33
blue - uhf KPXN 30 ION SAN BERNARDINO CA 44° 45.7 30
blue - uhf KVCR 24 PBS SAN BERNARDINO CA 68° 63.0 24
Note:
The above listing is a conservative prediction of stations received. Depending on the specifics of your installation, you may be able to receive stations that do not appear in this list.

DTV Antenna
Type Call Sign Channel Network City State Live
Date Compass
Orientation Miles
From Frequency
Assignment
* yellow - uhf KABC-DT 7.1 ABC LOS ANGELES CA 19° 32.6 53
* yellow - uhf KJLA-DT 57.1 IND VENTURA CA 19° 32.6 49
* yellow - uhf KCET-DT 28.1 PBS LOS ANGELES CA 19° 32.5 59
* yellow - uhf KFTR-DT 46.1 TFA ONTARIO CA 19° 32.6 29
* yellow - uhf KAZA-DT 54.1 AZA AVALON CA 19° 32.6 47
* yellow - uhf KCOP-DT 13.1 MNT LOS ANGELES CA 19° 32.6 66
* yellow - uhf KPXN-DT 30.1 ION SAN BERNARDINO CA 20° 31.9 38
* yellow - uhf KRCA-DT 62.1 IND RIVERSIDE CA 20° 32.0 68
* yellow - uhf KTTV-DT 11.1 FOX LOS ANGELES CA 19° 32.6 65
* yellow - uhf KMEX-DT 34.1 UNI LOS ANGELES CA 19° 32.6 35
* yellow - uhf KCAL-DT 9.1 IND LOS ANGELES CA 19° 32.6 43
* yellow - uhf KCBS-DT 2.1 CBS LOS ANGELES CA 18° 32.7 60
* yellow - uhf KOCE-DT 50.1 PBS HUNTINGTON BEACH CA 19° 32.6 48
* yellow - uhf KDOC-DT 56.1 IND ANAHEIM CA 19° 32.6 32
* yellow - uhf KTLA-DT 5.1 CW LOS ANGELES CA 19° 32.6 31
* yellow - uhf KTBN-DT 23.1 TBN SANTA ANA CA 19° 32.6 23
* green - uhf KVEA-DT 39 TEL CORONA CA TBD 20° 32.0 39
* green - uhf KXLA-DT 44.1 IND RANCHO PALOS VERDES CA 19° 32.6 51
* green - uhf KLCS-DT 58.1 PBS LOS ANGELES CA 19° 32.5 41
* green - uhf KNBC-DT 4.1 NBC LOS ANGELES CA 19° 32.6 36
* red - uhf KSCI-DT 18.1 IND LONG BEACH CA 20° 32.0 61
* red - uhf KWHY-DT 22.1 IND LOS ANGELES CA 19° 32.6 42
* blue - uhf KVMD-DT 23.1 IND TWENTYNINE PALMS CA 67° 90.4 23
* violet - uhf KVCR-DT 24.1 PBS SAN BERNARDINO CA 68° 63.0 26

Q1: What are your thoughts on this antenna?

http://www.amazon.com/Antennas-Direct-DB2-Directional-Antenna/dp/B000EHUE7I******pd_bbs_sr_5/103-7165332-9365421?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1193163857&sr=8-5

Q2: Will a passive antenna need to be amplified if split a few times (I suspect "it depends", but I'll ask anyway)? I want to locate the antenna in a central wiring closet or maybe the attic (and wire to the closet), and then split and route to several TVs.

Thanks...

The link is not functioning, but it appears to be the DB2 from Antennas Direct. This should serve your needs well, at least until 2009 when 7, 9, 11 & 13 move back to VHF.

You may need a distribution amp., but give it a try first w/o one. If needed, Fry's sells some Channel Master distribution amps, which have worked well for me.

Thanks Falcon_77 - I hope your house is safe, I heard some of the fires were near Ladera yesterday, at least the winds seem to have died down a bit today (at least where I'm at).

Pretty much all the stations are within about 1 degree of each other - might I be better off with a directional antenna?

Last night I hooked up my cheapo desktop antenna that came with my HDTV wonder card to the splitter (routed to two TVs at the moment), and it pulled in most stations pretty well - low 70s signal strength on the channels I checked, not great, but got pretty much everything except KABC (7.1). So maybe I'll fiddle a little with aiming/positioning it, I might not need to buy anything at all.

Thanks Falcon_77 - I hope your house is safe, I heard some of the fires were near Ladera yesterday, at least the winds seem to have died down a bit today (at least where I'm at).

Pretty much all the stations are within about 1 degree of each other - might I be better off with a directional antenna?

Last night I hooked up my cheapo desktop antenna that came with my HDTV wonder card to the splitter (routed to two TVs at the moment), and it pulled in most stations pretty well - low 70s signal strength on the channels I checked, not great, but got pretty much everything except KABC (7.1). So maybe I'll fiddle a little with aiming/positioning it, I might not need to buy anything at all.

That "cheapo antenna" is great! Very much like the Silver Sensor with a lower base.

That "cheapo antenna" is great! Very much like the Silver Sensor with a lower base.

Yeah, works pretty well - only concerns are (a) can I get KABC with it after some aiming, and (b) will signal strength be sufficient after another split or two.

Yeah, works pretty well - only concerns are (a) can I get KABC with it after some aiming, and (b) will signal strength be sufficient after another split or two.

Try putting a little amp behind it. I have trouble with KCOP and KABC too in a room with no Easterly window.

Did anyone notice KABC doesn't stretch upconverted SD video? I've been watching local commercials and SD material and they're pretty much OAR.

Anyone else notice the 4KNBC HD logo on some of the primetime shows?This indicates that they have the capability to overlay HD graphics and that the HD switch is not to far off.I also posted this in the TWC thread.

Did anyone notice KABC doesn't stretch upconverted SD video? I've been watching local commercials and SD material and they're pretty much OAR.

CONFIRMED! Just saw a local break in the local news. Perfect 4x3, first time I've ever seen it from KABC local stuff other than stories in the newscast. (Prior to the 14x9 stretch, they were sending out 3x2, probably the result of an upscaling error.) Hopefully they've made the correction on everything, and not just newscast commercial breaks.

This would be an EXCELLENT time to send them some communication singing their praises. The folks who made that decision could probably use some support that they can wave at their bosses.

Having just watched another lovely 4x3 break, I'm amazed at how sharp their SD picture is on these things. That stretch was messing things up more than just making everything tubby.

PS - Way to go, DoTheDVDeed!

Anyone else notice the 4KNBC HD logo on some of the primetime shows?This indicates that they have the capability to overlay HD graphics and that the HD switch is not to far off.Not so fast, there. You can have an HD keyer and still not have paid the millions for the rest of the HD news equipment, including all new controls, wires, field and studio cameras, and installation. KNBC could be months away from transmitting HD news. WVEC-DT in the Norfolk area has had an HD keyer for years -- no HD news, yet.

If I were running a station, I'd wait to go HD until I could have all-HD news -- in other words, I could have all-digital HD-capable ENG systems operational. The most economical way to do this is to wait on Sprint/Nextel to provide most, if not all, of the equipment by sometime mid-2008, all for free. SD widescreen field reports just doesn't make HD news sparkle.

Not so fast, there. You can have an HD keyer and still not have paid the millions for the rest of the HD news equipment, including all new controls, wires, field and studio cameras, and installation. KNBC could be months away from transmitting HD news. WVEC-DT in the Norfolk area has had an HD keyer for years -- no HD news, yet.

If I were running a station, I'd wait to go HD until I could have all-HD news -- in other words, I could have all-digital HD-capable ENG systems operational. The most economical way to do this is to wait on Sprint/Nextel to provide most, if not all, of the equipment by sometime mid-2008, all for free. SD widescreen field reports just doesn't make HD news sparkle.
Hmm that's interesting. Why would Sprint/Nextel provide free equipment to the station?

Rudy

Hmm that's interesting. Why would Sprint/Nextel provide free equipment to the station?

Rudy

So that Sprint/Nextel can provide the obscenely expensive transmission services to get the HD feeds back TO the station.

Did anyone notice KABC doesn't stretch upconverted SD video? I've been watching local commercials and SD material and they're pretty much OAR.

I noticed that also. Does this mean t5hat the last local station in L.A. has stopped stretching? If so that is truly fantastic news. Tonight I will check again.

Rick R

KOCE was the other culprit. They rarely have 4x3 programming on their HD stream, but the promos and "Orange County Snapshot" segments are always 14x9. I haven't checked on them in the last few days.

Daytime programming on KABC today is proper 4x3. Looks like it's going to stick.

Daytime programming on KABC today is proper 4x3. Looks like it's going to stick.

This is the best news I have heard in a long time. I also observed all the comercials were 4x3 last night as I watched Wheel and Jepardy.

Rick R

PS - Way to go, DoTheDVDeed!

Thanks narkspud for the "attaboy"--hard to believe it was just me. Thanks to anyone else out there who took the time to complain.

Great, I'll be able to record Ebert n' Roeper (now without thumbs!) from the digital channel instead of settling for analog.

:)

Anyone notice that now there's Daystar on one of KOCE subchannel?

I guess wikipedia was right a couple of months ago.

See here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10993559&highlight=daystar#post10993559

Anyone notice that now there's Daystar on one of KOCE subchannel?

I guess wikipedia was right a couple of months ago.

See here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10993559&highlight=daystar#post10993559

Best of luck to the poor KOCE receptionist who's having to explain THAT to the callers who don't know the story. :o

Hmm that's interesting. Why would Sprint/Nextel provide free equipment to the station?So that Sprint/Nextel can provide the obscenely expensive transmission services to get the HD feeds back TO the station.No, they wouldn't spend all that money for that out of the kindness of their own hearts.

Sprint/Nextel purchased the rights to some of the bandwidth that analog ENGs use to transmit live field reports to stations. So, in exchange for this bandwidth, Sprint/Nextel must replace ALL analog ENGs (which are limited to 640x480i resolution) with new digital ENG (which can transmit up to 25 mbps or so of digital data, enough for 720p or 1080i MPEG-2 transmission) equipment, at their expense.

ive just lost all my local HD channels from my built in tuner the last couple of days.

NBC, ABC, CBS, FOX, KTLA

from the channels 101.1 and up

anybody know why?

lotc, do a QAM, or "cable", rescan on your TV. The manual should tell you how to do this.

No, they wouldn't spend all that money for that out of the kindness of their own hearts.

Sprint/Nextel purchased the rights to some of the bandwidth that analog ENGs use to transmit live field reports to stations. So, in exchange for this bandwidth, Sprint/Nextel must replace ALL analog ENGs (which are limited to 640x480i resolution) with new digital ENG (which can transmit up to 25 mbps or so of digital data, enough for 720p or 1080i MPEG-2 transmission) equipment, at their expense.

Wow! Hope they get their money's worth out of that bandwidth.

Hey guys,

I'm in the LA area, and before, I had HD local OTA channels working with rabbit ears, I got everything.

The past couple of days, I couldn't get any at all, I've done a rescan on my TV and it still does not work. Keep in mind that nothing has moved, everything is still in its original place.

Thanks.

Ummm, what can we do for you? They're all still on the air . . . .

I'm just asking for some suggestions...

I've tried new antennas, several but to no avail. Could there be anything else that might be blocking my signals? Theres been no new constructions or anything around here.

I'm just asking for some suggestions...

I've tried new antennas, several but to no avail. Could there be anything else that might be blocking my signals? Theres been no new constructions or anything around here.

and we've checked the TV?

Yes.

Hey guys,

I'm in the LA area, and before, I had HD local OTA channels working with rabbit ears, I got everything.

The past couple of days, I couldn't get any at all, I've done a rescan on my TV and it still does not work. Keep in mind that nothing has moved, everything is still in its original place.

Thanks.


same here I've done rescan and everything but to no aval!...wonder if it has anything to do with the fires.

Yes.

Are you sure? I've had one of my TVs just stop tuning on the QAM and ATSC (analog worked). I reset it (unplug for a few minutes) and it woke up.

Are you sure? I've had one of my TVs just stop tuning on the QAM and ATSC (analog worked). I reset it (unplug for a few minutes) and it woke up.

I would also wonder. If you have tried multiple antennas and none of them worked, how can you be sure that it isn't the ATSC tuner that died (even if it is temporarily as Joe suggested).

I just moved to a new place in Culver City. Antennaweb.org was very pessimistic about my hopes for OTA reception, suggesting a large directional with amplifier, and even then that I would not get half of the channels.

So, I decided to connect up a Silver Sensor to my Samsung T151 receiver, aimed it out the window, and I can get all of the channels. The signal is weak, but I get all channels, and I don't see any glitches once it is aimed.

Here is a question: The duplex I am in has an antenna on the roof, but it looks like an old VHF/UHF design. Should I bother trying to hook it up to test it? (It would be a little "cleaner" than having the Silver Sensor sitting around.) If I get really energetic and swap the aerial on the mast, what should I replace it with? Given the performance of the Silver Sensor, would a small or medium UHF on the roof be sufficient?

I just moved to a new place in Culver City. Antennaweb.org was very pessimistic about my hopes for OTA reception, suggesting a large directional with amplifier, and even then that I would not get half of the channels.

So, I decided to connect up a Silver Sensor to my Samsung T151 receiver, aimed it out the window, and I can get all of the channels. The signal is weak, but I get all channels, and I don't see any glitches once it is aimed.

Here is a question: The duplex I am in has an antenna on the roof, but it looks like an old VHF/UHF design. Should I bother trying to hook it up to test it? (It would be a little "cleaner" than having the Silver Sensor sitting around.) If I get really energetic and swap the aerial on the mast, what should I replace it with? Given the performance of the Silver Sensor, would a small or medium UHF on the roof be sufficient?

Why not try it. Old school UHF is what you need right now. So, if it'll reach the TV give it a shot!

Yeah guys, I've tried unplugging the TV for around 10 minutes or so and rescanning, the digitals still won't come in, but analogs do.

Yeah guys, I've tried unplugging the TV for around 10 minutes or so and rescanning, the digitals still won't come in, but analogs do.


Starting to sound more like the TV is the culprit. :confused: Mine came back after a reset, (in the first 30 days of ownership BTW) yours may need a service call.

i think my coxial was loose for my reason, took it out and plugged it back in and all my local HD Channels came back along with the few digital ones that I get :)

Yeah, that's what happened to me, a loose connector. Problem solved.

For three or four days, KOCE has been very slow to lock up, 10-20 seconds of black screen afrer channel change, sometimes longer. Anybody know if they changed anything to make this happen. All the other channels seem to be OK.

The OC Register had an article in the paper this morning. The online version can be found at:

http://www.ocregister.com/money/digital-dtv-sets-1916491-analog-cable

While it is nice to see some more press coverage of DTV, I was not all that pleased with the article. You think they would have mentioned how many stations are broadcasting locally and in HD, etc, but no. But then, it was written by the Cox News Service.

I've found a very easy way to determine if a set has a digital tuner. Does the remote have a "." or a "-"?

I don't know if this is the case for older TV's, but I doubt that very many have a built-in digital tuner before 2004.

I certainly agree that not enough is being done, however.

For three or four days, KOCE has been very slow to lock up, 10-20 seconds of black screen afrer channel change, sometimes longer. Anybody know if they changed anything to make this happen. All the other channels seem to be OK.


They have more probs than that! Their "HD" channel video has been alternatingly freezing and going back to normal every two seconds for over three weeks now.

I have had the same KOCE issues for 3 weeks now too

you can email the eng dept at kdinh at koce dot org

Their "HD" channel video has been alternatingly freezing and going back to normal every two seconds for over three weeks now.

Hi there

Are you using an ATSC tuner built-in to an HDTV or an HTPC?

I've seen the same issues with 50.1. The worst case is a PC with WinMCE, and MCE will not even try to display that channel; it reports a "video error". However on that very same PC and KWorld tuner, the Arcsoft TotalMedia app will display channel 50.1 perfectly.

On another PC with WinXP, WatchHDTV app and Avermedia tuner, channel 50.1 is displayed with the ~1-second studder.

A friend with a Sony HDTV reports that 50.1 comes in smooth.

Regards

Tack me on the board with the KOCE issues, I sent off an email. Artec T14A tuner here.

koce are aware of this so it would really help if you did email them-- they are very responsive

again, its

kdinh at koce dot org

thanks

KVCR, as of last night, has been transmitting content on their HD subchannel 24.1. It looks like they chose 720p as the format.

EDIT: Although it seems they are still trying to figure things out as none of the content appears to be in HD. :) It's a start.

Rudy

I live in Palmdale, zip is 93551. I've seen very few posts re DTV OTA for the Palmdale/Lancaster area. Are there any posters that will share their experiences, good or bad? is this configuration viable for this area?

Channel Master 4228 UHF antenna
Wade-Delhi VIP-306 VHF antenna
Channel Master Titan 7777 preamp
Channel Master 9521a rotator
30'+ antenna height from the ground

Thanks so much!

Although there is probably little/no chance of this actually happening, I would not mind seeing the empty channel left vacated by The Tube replaced by the retro programming that is being shown this Thanksgiving weekend on KTLA.

I second.

Maybe something like this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retro_Television_Network)?

I'm surprised nobody is running reruns of Get Smart in preparation for the movie.

I live in Palmdale, zip is 93551. I've seen very few posts re DTV OTA for the Palmdale/Lancaster area. Are there any posters that will share their experiences, good or bad? is this configuration viable for this area?

That Zip code appears to put you in the hills above Palmdale? Overall that looks like a really tough spot. Getting any DTV signals from Mt. Wilson appears to be a real chore since UHF doesn't bend over terrain very well.

Looking at the local translator stations, I'm surprised how under-served Palmdale is. Perhaps in 2009 things will improve with the translators (presumably) switching to digital. However, most of them still appear to be at 35+ miles away.

I like the antenna setup you propose, but the Wade is rather expensive and the 4228 is subject to high wind loads. An Antennas Direct 91XG for UHF and a Winegard YA-1713 for High-VHF could be considered, assuming that desired translators don't end up using any Low-VHF channels. Mt. Wilson stations won't be using Low-VHF for any full power stations in '09. 7, 9, 11, 13 will be going back to High-VHF.

Hopefully someone local can add their thoughts as I'm baffled as to why the area appears to be setup so poorly. Maybe it's another "everyone has cable area?" :(

KVCR, as of last night, has been transmitting content on their HD subchannel 24.1. It looks like they chose 720p as the format.

EDIT: Although it seems they are still trying to figure things out as none of the content appears to be in HD. :) It's a start.

Thanks for the update. It sounds like I need to point my 4228 in that direction again. I was able to pick-up KVCR about a month ago, but then the fires hit and reception went South. The HD channel was blank at that point, but I got the SD subs (though they were very weak).

Maybe something like this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retro_Television_Network)?

I'm surprised nobody is running reruns of Get Smart in preparation for the movie.

Hmm, KDOC has some of those shows including "Get Smart".

That Zip code appears to put you in the hills above Palmdale? Overall that looks like a really tough spot. Getting any DTV signals from Mt. Wilson appears to be a real chore since UHF doesn't bend over terrain very well.

Looking at the local translator stations, I'm surprised how under-served Palmdale is. Perhaps in 2009 things will improve with the translators (presumably) switching to digital. However, most of them still appear to be at 35+ miles away.

I like the antenna setup you propose, but the Wade is rather expensive and the 4228 is subject to high wind loads. An Antennas Direct 91XG for UHF and a Winegard YA-1713 for High-VHF could be considered, assuming that desired translators don't end up using any Low-VHF channels. Mt. Wilson stations won't be using Low-VHF for any full power stations in '09. 7, 9, 11, 13 will be going back to High-VHF.

Hopefully someone local can add their thoughts as I'm baffled as to why the area appears to be setup so poorly. Maybe it's another "everyone has cable area?" :(
thanks for your comments, in particular the heads up about the '09 changes. much appreciated!

Hmm, KDOC has some of those shows including "Get Smart".


Cool, thanks!

Try putting a little amp behind it. I have trouble with KCOP and KABC too in a room with no Easterly window.

As an update, after aiming the little antenna that came with my HDTV Wonder card (looks like a silver sensor, not sure if that's what it is) + adding a 10db signal booster I had laying around, I've got good signal strength on pretty much everything.

As an update, after aiming the little antenna that came with my HDTV Wonder card (looks like a silver sensor, not sure if that's what it is) + adding a 10db signal booster I had laying around, I've got good signal strength on pretty much everything.

I think the top half is and the base was made smaller to fit the ATI original packaging.
Good news! Enjoy!

Does your HDTV have an ATSC tuner built in? Because some people only have HD-ready TV (no tuner) so they get HD through an external tuner (cable box) and can't get it OTA. Other than that, any cheap antenna should pick up signal quite easily from where you are at (my 99 cent antenna I pick up 29 digital station).


hiddenleavez,

Are you in Alhambra?
I'm having the same problem as xxbiggie... no digital signals whatsoever...

Hi
I'm new to this site... but it seems you guys know a thing or two about TV issues. So, here's mine if you can help:

Had a small analog TV with Directv that was working just fine. Just laid out $$ for a 37" Sylvania LCD HD TV. It has a built in HD tuner.

The Directv box isn't the HD variety and they want $$ to upgrade it and $$ to cancel - so I'm stuck.

The local channels comes in fantastic if we unplug the Directv box but the satelite channels are blurry with it plugged in. The new TV can be switched to analog - so logically switching to analog and using the Directv should work like the old TV... but the picture is still blurry on the satelite channels.

I'm considering just returning the TV- maybe trying a different brand, or skipping the big flat screen experience and going back to the dinky little set that worked. But, first I wonder if there is a setting that might fix the issue.

Any suggestions?

The local channels comes in fantastic if we unplug the Directv box but the satelite channels are blurry with it plugged in. The new TV can be switched to analog - so logically switching to analog and using the Directv should work like the old TV... but the picture is still blurry on the satelite channels.

How are you hooking up the D* box to the TV? It sounds like it may be using an RF connector?

In general, SD often doesn't look as good on a larger flat-panel TV, vs. a smaller analog CRT TV. However, it sounds like something else is going on. If available:

1) Use the RF input on the TV for an antenna
2) Use the AV outputs from the D* box to the AV inputs on the TV. It sounds like the D* box doesn't have an HDMI out as it's not HD, but does it have component out (usually Red Green & Blue connectors)? However, don't use composite video (yellow connector) if you can avoid it.

pouncecat2,

When your committment to DirecTV ends you could switch to Dish Network as they have deals for new customers that include a free HD DVR and free HD for 3 months when you sigh up for an 18 month committment.

Rick R

Greetings from the IE. I will post the same message that I placed, perhaps mistakenly, elsewhere:

I live 60 miles east of LA, without cable or satellite. I use an RS 15-2187 HD antenna to pick up the free OTA signals and, except for Channel 13, receive fantastic digital broadcasts from all the networks. Since the digital broadcasts are currently on the UHF band, is there any way to tell what will happen to my reception in 2009 when many (all?) of these transmissions revert back to VHF?

The first thing to do is to tune to the analog channels themselves. If you have a serviceable picture on 7, 9, 11, and 13, you've got a shot with your current antenna, although signal strength might be low, and in thunderstorms you'll experience signal dropouts. However, you might not pick up a DT signal, anyway, especially if you see only static on those analog VHF channels. Be prepared.

Your antenna's designed for UHF reception, not VHF reception. 2, 4, and 5 DT will remain on UHF, so that's no trouble. 7, 9, 11, and 13 DT will go back to their VHF analog frequencies.

If you need a new VHF antenna, you can't go wrong with the Winegard YA-1713 yagi antenna. It's designed for channels 7-13 reception only, so you'll have to purchase a combiner and combine the two signals.

Mike:

Thanks for the response. Not surprisingly, I get poor-to-mediocre analog reception for Channels 2, 4 and 5. For 7, 9, 11 and 13 the analog signal is pretty good. Time will tell...

Hi. New member. Live in the Ventura Avenue area of Ventura. ZIP 93001. Currently receive analog signals 3 (KEYT Santa Barbara), 4 (NBC Los Angeles), 7 (KABC Los Angeles), 13 (FOX Los Angeles), 23 (Spanish), 28 (PBS Los Angeles, 45 (TBN Orange County). I get some more Spanish Channels, and infomercial channels.

I appreciate all your help to others:) as I learn to. I am trying to make the digital conversion hoping to get KEYT Television, Santa Barbara a distance of 45 miles. I will try to add from TV Fool. I am thinking that with the digital conversion I will lose all the analog, being left with KEYT 3 Santa Barbara. I am interested in anyone's opinion as that is how we all learn. I would be in a similar position with someone in a canyon facing the sea.

So, thanks again for everyone's efforts on this website.

I am adding the files from TV fool. Am interested in the switchover to digital. What can I do to look at how to receive KEYT Television ABC 3 from a distance of 45 miles not line of sight? I am thinking I will need to learn how to evaluate a signal with an oscilloscope.

Thanks.

Since you receive analog VHF CH4, 7 & 13 and UHF CH23, 28, 40 (KTBN) and
a few others from Mt. Wilson, you should have a fair chance of receiving
most of their digital counterparts....now and after Feb2009.
In particular note that CH28 (KCET) and CH40 (KTBN) use only moderate power.

Have you wandered the neighborhood knocking on the door of homes with antennas???

If you're looking for a way to see which digital stations you REALLY receive
(without buying an HDTV), you might try a USB Stick Tuner with a PC/Laptop:
http://computers.pricegrabber.com/video-capture-devices/p/336/form_keyword=usb+stick

[PS: KTBN is on CH40, not CH45.]

============================
Per TVFOOL, if you receive CH4, 7 & 13, you "should" receive CH2, 5, 9 and maybe 11.....
Are you also receiving these stations, but with poor picture quality???

And if TVFOOL is to be believed, you should NOT be receiving UHF CH23, 28 & 40.
[And KBAB CH4 "should" be blocking reception of KNBC CH4...unless KBAB
isn't on the air yet???]

Trilaterating your position from the TVFOOL report, it appears you are near the
500-600 block of Cedar St. near West Simpson St. (give or take a few 100 yards).
[GoogleEarth 34.288N by 119.296W to see it...]

I'm surprised TVFOOL predicted much of anything from Mt. Wilson, given that massive
500-ft hill in your backyard....

I would expect strong signals to be bounced into your location from the
1000-ft high hills due West of you as well as higher hills towards North-West.
These reflections could be stronger than the direct path, helping your reception.

TVFOOL (and other propagation prediction programs) do not account for terrain reflections.

==========================
Could you describe your antenna, preamp (if any), cable run & RF Splitters (if any)???

Are you using a rotator to find the "best" signal? Which direction(s) are "best"???

Were you also asking for options re post Feb2009 when many channels change???

Winegard GS 2200. No rotor. Antenna between the various signals.Was using a Radio Shack indoor antenna with amplifier. Put it outdoors and was picking up channel 9. Maybe others. Am interested in making the digital conversion than making any changes towards analog. Time to move on. Move ahead. Keep the memories. I agree with skip. Been taking advantage of skip with analog. No skip in digital. That's my concern. All or nothing.

Am interested in trying the USB stick. I have to get more technical with the signal.

There are other antennas in the area. Mostly towards the beach, but one or two further down the canyon. Down the canyon they're using amplifiers.

Thanks!.

The GS-2200 Sensar III "Batwing" doesn't have much gain...so an
antenna upgrade can significantly improve both VHF and UHF....

How about a big combo antenna on a rotator???
You could search out the "best" signal arrival direction....
perhaps while also steering a null towards your nearby TV stations....

UHF stations are only 4.8 miles from you towards N-W (KIMG, K45DU),
but are low power, so may not be a problem to the GS-2200's amplifier....


If you choose to upgrade the antenna, W-G HDP-269 VHF/UHF Preamp
would be a good choice due to it's very high overload characteristics,
esp. if local stations decide to increase power.

If you're looking for something somewhat lower profile, the C-M CM4228
is on sale at Fry's....excellent UHF and moderate gain for hi-VHF (CH7-13).
No guarantees, but might even receive analog stations below CH6...
[Post Feb2009, there will be no need to receive Ch2-6 in L.A. area.]

=======================
Since you want to get more "technical", you may want to make sure
the USB ATSC Tuner is compatible with (free) TS-READERLITE:
http://www.coolstf.com/tsreader/
TS-READERLITE displays errors and data rates for various sub-channels
as well as "Signal Quality". VideoLAN's VLC can be used to display video:
http://www.videolan.org/
Note that only some Autumn Wave and Huappage [B]ATSC USB Sticks are
supported by TSREADERLITE, in addition to a few external "box" tuners:
http://www.coolstf.com/tsreader/hardware.html

Software bundled with some Tuners may not display "Signal Quality".
Fortunately, (free) WATCHHDTV fixes this (and other) shortcomings:
http://watchhdtv.net/default.aspx

Very Interesting....my problem is that I do not know if there will be much of anything in this area other than the two locals(KIMG, K45DU). I am trying to be fiscally conservative, so no changes with antenna until Feb. 2009 to see what it's like then. When I first started with shutting down cable the first few nights I only had AM/FM radio, so will probably do the same thing. Then, when we're black (no picture) will then work it back from there. So, the main question I have is what will be left as far as stations and channels in Feb. 2009. I am sure there will be millions and millions of other's scrambling to get a signal, so I will have company ;)

Ventura OTA TV: Last Over the air antenna is in La Conchita. Mt. Wilson to La Conchita to the North, south of Carpinteria. When the switch comes to digital how far can digital television travel over the air? If you are on the fringe, what can you do? Fringe with digital seems it's going to be much more difficult.

Post2009 digital channel assignments for L.A. (and elsewhere) are found here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10614531&highlight=channel+election#post10614531
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6416393&highlight=election#post6416393

CH7, 9, 11 and 13 are converting from analog to digital, remainder will be UHF.
Digital KEYT-DT (ABC, Santa Barbara) will remain on it's current CH27 assignment.

Power assignments are supposed to "replicate" the current analog service areas.
For example, here is the service area for analog KTTV on VHF CH11:
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=TV1396.html
and here is the current KTTV-DT UHF coverage area:
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT1008316.html
When KTTV moves digital back to CH11, the power level is supposed to be
adjusted so it replicates the analog service area.

So, if you can receive analog VHF stations now, you should continue to receive
them when they go digital on VHF.

Even with the low-gain GS2200, you're receiving some VHF and some UHF stations.
If you upgrade the antenna, additional stations should finally appear....

A narrower beam antenna will suppress multipath currently coming into
GS-2200 from nearly all directions and can provide 5-10 dB more antenna gain.

A preamp could provide an additional 5-10 dB improvement in overall receiver sensitivity,
if the nearby stations don't cause problems.

So there is lots of room for improvement...

BTW: Have you tried moving antenna around, as well as higher to find a "sweet spot"???

Have move the antenna around. Happy where it's at for now, until I can measure the signal. I could split antennas, or put together a manual rotator (thought about rope "line" and two pulleys). Interesting about preamplifier. Thought about that. Using RG-6 length in series first distance about 20 feet, then 30, then 40, if I relay the RG-6 could reduce it to about 20 feet.

General question about Mt. Wilson, how far can OTA analog be received vs. OTA digital. Just curious. I can pick up occasionally pickup a San Diego station.

I'll have to investigate about other antenna. I am always looking, but will need a lot of evidence before I would commit funds at this point. I got the current antenna selection from TitanTV when you could make that selection. Now, I do not think you can do that, it goes to Antennaweb.

It does intrigue me I could pickup another 20 db, concerned it could overload the local two channels.

Peace.

[Post Feb2009, there will be no need to receive Ch2-6 in L.A. area.]

You know, if I was a would-be low power broadcaster, I'd be all over this. Comments?

Lo-VHF CH2-6 have many drawbacks, including the need for MUCH BIGGER
antennas, long-range interference problems due to "E-Skip" ionospheric propagation
and excessive impulse noise found in that band due to thunder storms, truck+car
ignition systems, fluorescent lights, motor brushes, light dimmers, et. al.

http://www.tvtechnology.com/pages/s.0001/t.1166.html
http://www.tvtechnology.com/pages/s.0001/t.1169.html
http://www.tvtechnology.com/pages/s.0001/t.1177.html
More re Impulse Noise:
http://www.mstv.org/docs/techinfo.pdf

Maintaining a reasonable Antenna VSWR is more important for DTV because the
"echos" look like short delay multipath (EVM) which can degrade receiver sensitivity:
http://www.tvantenna.tv/papers/PFactorsV.pdf

On the other hand, VHF requires much lower power transmitter, which is not
as expensive to buy and has a much lower monthly bill.

VHF also goes "around" hills and penetrates buildings much better than UHF.
Operations of the new White Space Devices (Wireless Broadband) would be
ideal in CH2-6 band, since IP protocol could readily overcome impulse noise
problem with packet repeats and would readily penetrate to indoor antennas.

CH6 (e.g. FOX's XETV in San Diego) has an additional adjacent channel
interference problem from the FM band.

Currently, CH2-6 are considered part of the Post2009 DTV band.
However, this could always change....such as a recent proposal to
expand the crowded FM band into CH5+6:
http://www.tvtechnology.com/pages/s.0015/t.10139.html
http://www.rwonline.com/pages/s.0121/t.9673.html
BTW: There is a 4 MHz "gap" between CH4 and CH5.

I am thinking eventually I will use multiple antenna's. One towards Mt. Wilson, one local, one towards KEYT. Use my current antenna for the locals and KEYT.

Current picture quality: 3 KEYT (good), 4 KNBC(snow), 5 KTLA(snow w/picture), KABC 7 (snow w/picture), 11 (all snow), FOX 13 (snow w/picture), 23 LAT (great picture), 28 PBS (snow w/picture), 38 (snow w/picture), 40 PBS (snow), 45 KTBN (great picture).

Great pictures from CH23 (KIMG, LatTV) and CH45 (KTBN repeater) are NW of you (4.8 miles).
CH38 is probably KPMR (Univision) from same hill NW of Santa Barbara as CH3 KEYT (ABC).
An antenna pointed towards KEYT/KPMR would also pick up nearby stations (if you even care).

So it appears the only UHF station coming in (weakly) from Mt Wilson is KCET (PBS) on CH28.
Note that an antenna pointed towards KEYT just might be the best direction to pick up
Mt Wilson UHF stations via reflection off the 1000+ foot hills on the other side of the canyon from you.

That sounds good. Pickup locals and SB from one antenna. For LA, am thinking of modifying an antenna like was done on HDTV expert for fringe station using a Radio Shack antenna with (pre) amplifier. Wish there was a better way to predict the signal and reception before the purchase.

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_b/ReceptionOnTheFringe.html

If you look at distances and hills this is a similar situation.

You know, if I was a would-be low power broadcaster, I'd be all over this. Comments?

I think that if any LP/CA/TX station attempts to broadcast on VHF-Low after the transition, that they will be doing themselves a disservice. Getting reception for 2-6 is enough of a challenge for full power stations on VHF-Low.

I was previously concerned about VHF-High as well, but with my recent tests at my Mystic, CT site, I have been able to receive DTV broadcasts on 10 and 13 with few problems (UHF is very tough there). However, LA probably could have remained UHF only, as Mt. Wilson provides much more opportunities for line of sight than most areas have at 40+ miles.

Wondering about other areas. Trabuco Canyon, San Juan Capistrano, other areas where you are 80+ miles out, and then have a hill to contend with. How did you overcome? How are you planning to overcome with the switch to digital in 2009?

Wondering about other areas. Trabuco Canyon, San Juan Capistrano, other areas where you are 80+ miles out, and then have a hill to contend with. How did you overcome? How are you planning to overcome with the switch to digital in 2009?

The switch? I think one of the main problems about how the Analog Switch-off is being handled is that they often don't mention that DTV is already available.

With Mt. Wilson, getting signals at 51 miles is easy for me, but the intervening hills are fairly distant. When 7,9,11 & 13 go back to VHF-High, it should be even easier to pick them up. I am dealing with 1-2 edge diffraction already with minimal problems. 2+ edge diffraction in CT is another story.

Anybody having trouble with KCBS? For the past two days, their signal interrupts every 10-20 seconds, just enough to make the sound skip maybe 200-300 milliseconds. It is very anonying. Analog signal is OK.

'Twas good this morning in OC.

Does anyone else have problems with KTLA 5 ((31) using frequency 575 MHz)'s digital feed OTA?

Last night (7:45 PM PST to 9:00 PM PST, then gave up), I couldn't get a signal lock. Both of my DVB Viewer (TE and Pro) softwares get nothing (no signals). TSReader v2.8.46a failed to lock signal (a). I checked my analog feed (same antennae and same location) on my old CRT TV, and it was showing the show (not clear as usual, but watchable). KTLA was fine yesterday's morning (9:00 AM PST) and this morning (8:08 AM PST at 60% strength).

In the past, this happened before. Sometimes, I can get locked signal but the strengths are low like 30-50% when it is not watchable. I don't know what's the pattern too because it can be cloudy, clear, raining, no leaves on trees, lots of leaves on trees, etc.

Both analog and digital use this bowtie antennae: Antennas Direct | "DB2" The Best Indoor HDTV Antenna (http://www.antennasdirect.com/DB2_Indoor_antenna.html) ... It is located above my bookshelf in my room (second floor of a house on a hill). Channels 2, 4 (worse of these three), and 5 (sometimes watchable; not clear at its best; sometimes black and white fuzzy with distorted audio) are not clear. Even through VCR too.
HDTV Magazine - Broadcast HDTV Market : (http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/programming/broadcast-market-print.php?dma_name)[]=Los+Angeles
shows the differences, but I am still puzzled why I always have problems with KTLA 5. http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/7984/mapae8.jpg shows an
aerial map from my place to where the stations' antennae, including KTLA's, are. They're all pretty much the same area. :( http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/7112/setupandoutsideviewnq4.jpg shows
my current setup from October 13th, 2007.

Thank you in advance. :)

More details if they help at all.

I got KTLA digitally again this morning after 8:00 AM PST. I lost it again tonight after 9:30 PM PST. I could not lock the signal. Oh and it doesn't matter if my window blind is open or closed. I wonder if this is a new pattern with night vs. day. It's clear and cold outside too (like last night). :(

Then a few minutes later, I was able to get KTLA digitally (didn't change anything or even moved my thin body)! I was only getting about 47% to 55% for its signal strength within two minutes. Then, I gave up and watched KCAL 9 (100% strength) to see the Lakers lose. :(

After the game, I went back to KTLA 5 and I couldn't get it again.

But for once in a first time, TSReader Lite v2.8.46a didn't give me can't lock a signal error and showed signal going back and forth with Locked and Unlocked SNR (the lowest was 12.5 dB and the highest was 17.5 dB; seem to hang around at 13 dB a lot). After closing, I couldn't get a signal lock again after maybe 10 times of reattempts, then I got a quick lock. The program showed unlocked SNR for a LONG time (no up and down a lot). I even saw its value go down to 1.8 dB a few times! Does anyone know if this tool can log/graph so I don't have to stare at it? :D

I tried other channels and they had values in 27-28 dB (KCBS), 27-29 dB (KNBC), 23-24 dB (KABC), 24-25 dB (KCOP), etc. None of them ever unlocked their signals. So, it seems KTLA's SNR is going up and down too much. Am I reading and understsanding this correctly? What values are supposed to be good for SNRs? Or do I want stable values? Are all stations/channels different?

Although there is probably little/no chance of this actually happening, I would not mind seeing the empty channel left vacated by The Tube replaced by the retro programming that is being shown this Thanksgiving weekend on KTLA.Ditto. I'd love to see that. However, how will it make money? Commercials? Didn't TheTube fail because of lack of commercials?

I tried other channels and they had values in 27-28 dB (KCBS), 27-29 dB (KNBC), 23-24 dB (KABC), 24-25 dB (KCOP), etc. None of them ever unlocked their signals. So, it seems KTLA's SNR is going up and down too much. Am I reading and understsanding this correctly? What values are supposed to be good for SNRs? Or do I want stable values? Are all stations/channels different?

I am not clear on which computer tuner you are using, please confirm. KTLA 31 should be strong from your location, per the TV Fool plot.

I'm guessing that frequency has problems with the Eucalyptus tree parked in front of the window. Is there any way that it can be trimmed?

Also, are you using an amp? You shouldn't need one at this range and it seems that you have a pretty clear view, except for that tree.

I am not clear on which computer tuner you are using, please confirm. KTLA 31 should be strong from your location, per the TV Fool plot.

I'm guessing that frequency has problems with the Eucalyptus tree parked in front of the window. Is there any way that it can be trimmed?

Also, are you using an amp? You shouldn't need one at this range and it seems that you have a pretty clear view, except for that tree.I am using an Air2PC-ATSC-PCI (see http://www.bbti.us/products_air2pc_atsc_pci.htm for details). I have had since late 2005. I doubt that tree is the problem because right now, the signal was fine (mostly 65% and ranged from 61% to 73%) during the day time (since after 11:00 AM PST). Even when the tree didn't have leaves, the signals were still bad sometimes. The last two morning at 8 and 9 AM PST, KTLA was perfect but not at night time like 7 and 8 PM PST. :( I think something is weird during night hours to cause KTLA digital signal strength to go bad, but I don't know what it is! All other stations/channels seem fine too! Someone said it might be the reflections in the house (I am on second floor facing the mountains)?

And I am not using a preamp. I am using an old splitter to go to my TV (analog) and my HDTV tuner in my computer (already tried single direct coax cable and that made no differences).

Someone told me that body movements can cause issues too. I waved my hands and arms in front of my bowtie antenna (even sometimes touching it softly) and I can see signal strengths changing and TSReader Lite's continuity errors values rising. This was on KTLA 5.1. On other stations, not much changes (maybe 1-2% I saw). I forgot to mention that KABC and KTTV are the ones that don't have 100% strengths (don't recall them ever having problems like KTLA though) while the rest have almost or at 100% strengths.

I am using an Air2PC-ATSC-PCI (see http://www.bbti.us/products_air2pc_atsc_pci.htm for details).

I don't know what generation that card is, but it isn't 5th, which was a significant leap in performance as I understand it. Perhaps someone has some experience with this card.

Looking at the specs, -75dBm makes it sound like this tuner is far from sensitive. A 10dB distribution amp might we worth a try, but I'm concerned with multi-path using a pre-5th generation chip.

I don't know what generation that card is, but it isn't 5th, which was a significant leap in performance as I understand it. Perhaps someone has some experience with this card.

Looking at the specs, -75dBm makes it sound like this tuner is far from sensitive. A 10dB distribution amp might we worth a try, but I'm concerned with multi-path using a pre-5th generation chip.Well, it was cheap (60 bucks back in 2005). ;)

If it is the card, wouldn't I have problem with all the other stations/channels too?

Not sure if these will help as well. I am under 20 miles from most of the broadcast towers according to two Web sites. Here are screen captures from them: http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/237/radarallug0.png and http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/4229/antennawebdt8.gif ... Maybe they will help with all these datas. :D

Has KVCR stopped broadcasting their digital channels? Or am I simply no longer able to tune them in? I recently changed my antenna setup and am no longer receiving them. The analog channel 24 comes in but not the digital equivalents. My Silver Sensor used to be mounted on the LNBs of my Satellite Dish, since I wasn't using the Satellite Dish for any other purpose. :) Well I sold the Satellite Dish last week and now noticed that 24.1 - 24.3 no longer come in. Help. Someone tell me if they are still able to receive KVCRs digital channels.

Thanks.
Rudy

Well, it was cheap (60 bucks back in 2005). ;)

If it is the card, wouldn't I have problem with all the other stations/channels too?

Not sure if these will help as well. I am under 20 miles from most of the broadcast towers according to two Web sites. Here are screen captures from them: http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/237/radarallug0.png and http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/4229/antennawebdt8.gif ... Maybe they will help with all these datas. :D

What does www.tvfool.com predict for your channel 31 Rx signal?

I'm 24.8 miles from KTLA-DT's transmitter, and tvfool predicts KTLA-DT to be my strongest signal,
-49.4 dBm.

With TSReader 2.7.44, an Air2PC (which I bought for $19 on eBay, but seldom use!), and a Radio
Shack U-75R (which I bought for $15 at a RS going out of business sale), I see a 28-29 dB signal
for KTLA-DT. KCBS-DT is 29-30 dB, KNBC-DT is 30 dB, KABC-DT is 26 dB, and KCOP-DT is 24 dB.

rb

What does www.tvfool.com predict for your channel 31 Rx signal?

I'm 24.8 miles from KTLA-DT's transmitter, and tvfool predicts KTLA-DT to be my strongest signal,
-49.4 dBm.

With TSReader 2.7.44, an Air2PC (which I bought for $19 on eBay, but seldom use!), and a Radio
Shack U-75R (which I bought for $15 at a RS going out of business sale), I see a 28-29 dB signal
for KTLA-DT. KCBS-DT is 29-30 dB, KNBC-DT is 30 dB, KABC-DT is 26 dB, and KCOP-DT is 24 dB.

rbUm, I did post http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/237/radarallug0.png earlier and it says -46.9. What does that number mean?

On 12/14/2007 before 11:25 PM PST: But for once in a first time, TSReader Lite v2.8.46a didn't give me can't lock a signal error and showed signal going back and forth with Locked and Unlocked SNR (the lowest was 12.5 dB and the highest was 17.5 dB; seem to hang around at 13 dB a lot). After closing, I couldn't get a signal lock again after maybe 10 times of reattempts, then I got a quick lock. The program showed unlocked SNR for a LONG time (no up and down a lot). I even saw its value go down to 1.8 dB a few times! Does anyone know if this tool can log/graph so I don't have to stare at it? :D

I tried other channels and they had values in 27-28 dB (KCBS), 27-29 dB (KNBC), 23-24 dB (KABC), 24-25 dB (KCOP), etc. None of them ever unlocked their signals. So, it seems KTLA's SNR is going up and down too much. Am I reading and understsanding this correctly? What values are supposed to be good for SNRs? Or do I want stable values? Are all stations/channels different?

For the last 20 minutes, signal strength was decent 50-60% in my DVB Viewer program. 20-22 dB in TSReader Lite.

http://xs222.xs.to/xs222/07500/GE3DaerialmapAndTx.jpg for Google Earth's 3D map (kmz from http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=15&Itemid=41 ) and the TX overview map facing north to show what the area looks like in aerial 3D mode.

I hope these give more clues. :)

Something that might help everyone. Develop a spreadsheet by City/Zip with what's known, distance to transmitter (maybe from City Hall of each City), then with what people are using, and the performance results. Every area will be different, this will allow comparisons within the geographical areas of interest. White paper goes into more of the verbage 1-2 pages, an attempt to describe the area: Mountains, Hills, things that affect the signal for a large swath of area and how people cope to work around it.

I reaimed my antenna this weekend because it had been blown askew with the recent winds. Now KCBS is no longer my weakest signal. It now comes in at 73% vs KABC and KTTv which are 66-69%. KCBS used to be less than these others. I wonder if they increased their digital power.

Also I observed that KCET has no audio on any digital channel. Has anyone else observed this or is that a problem with my receiver?

phildaant,

I received KTLA last night (Sunday 12/16/07) at 10:30 PM perfect with a signal strength of 100% on my Dish Network 622. I believe your reception problems are due to your antenna/receiver not KTLA.

Rick R

Also I observed that KCET has no audio on any digital channel. Has anyone else observed this or is that a problem with my receiver?

Rick R
I am experiencing exactly the same problem, even though the signal strength is in the 90ies. Strangely enough, there's audio when I view it through cable.

Rudy

Something that might help everyone. Develop a spreadsheet by City/Zip with what's known, distance to transmitter (maybe from City Hall of each City), then with what people are using, and the performance results. Every area will be different, this will allow comparisons within the geographical areas of interest. White paper goes into more of the verbage 1-2 pages, an attempt to describe the area: Mountains, Hills, things that affect the signal for a large swath of area and how people cope to work around it.
In July I posted just such a spreadsheet and encourage submissions:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10961518&highlight=spreadsheet#post10961518

It compares reported performance against Propagation Prediction Programs,
e.g. Radio-Mobile, www.tvfool.com and www.antennaweb.org (yuck).

Since users use a wide variety of outdoor/indoor antennas, with and w/o
preamps and may or may not have nearby terrain blockage it is important
to include user particulars.
For example, indoor location loses about 13 dB (+/- 6 dB), CM4228 8-Bay has
about 15 dB more gain than typical indoor antenna, Preamp can improve
sensitivity by about 5-10 dB (or kill it if overloaded), and if you're hiding behind
a nearby hill, you may be 15-40 dB lower signal than a (higher) neighbor.

Note that www.tvfool.com and www.antennaweb.org use a lo-rez SRTM-3
topo database which may underestimate effect of nearby hills.
[For SOCAL, I download hi-rez SRTM-1 topo database with Radio-Mobile.]

=======================
Yeah, I know your eyeballs are rolling up into their sockets....

If you're looking for a simple database of reception reports, try this website:
http://www.hdtvpub.com/
Nationwide and searchable by location/zipcode....

KOCE-DT has fixed the stuttering!

Hi there

Received an e-mail from Kiem today, to notify that he finally got to work on the issue of some people receiving an HD signal that has stuttering video. And it does seem to be corrected. Even on an old, 1.7 GHz Pentium 4 (normally used just for recording), channel 50.1 is smooth, both video and audio.

Regards

I reaimed my antenna this weekend because it had been blown askew with the recent winds. Now KCBS is no longer my weakest signal. It now comes in at 73% vs KABC and KTTv which are 66-69%. KCBS used to be less than these others. I wonder if they increased their digital power.

Also I observed that KCET has no audio on any digital channel. Has anyone else observed this or is that a problem with my receiver?

phildaant,

I received KTLA last night (Sunday 12/16/07) at 10:30 PM perfect with a signal strength of 100% on my Dish Network 622. I believe your reception problems are due to your antenna/receiver not KTLA.

Rick RThanksRick. I see you live in Simi Valley, that's way far from my area. Hmm, it would be nice to see who else lives in the same city as me. I am on the hill (not the highest). I did post a Google Earth aerial map in 3D of it.

Also I observed that KCET has no audio on any digital channel. Has anyone else observed this or is that a problem with my receiver?

No probs with KCET last night or this morning.

How would one do a study of antenna's around their area. To try to determine who's optimizing their signals. You know what the various prediction programs tell you. You know the various colors that are given to you. How do you put it all together before you get up on the roof with your antenna and your TV? Think there is a song about "Up on the roof" I appreciate the posts to help me.

anyone getting nasty static through the speakers on KCAL (Lakers vs. Bulls) right now? It's awful, better watching in mute.

Took out some RG-6. Improved reception. Will be looking at seeing if lines can be reduced. How much is lost with splitters, combiners. Is there any better way?

No probs with KCET last night or this morning.

No problems with me last night (Tuesday 12/18/07) either. It appears that KCET fixed their audio problems. Thanks for the responses.

Rick R

I noticed something interesting. I can see red blinking lights in the sky at night in my NW direction. Then, I found out they were from antennae for a radio station. I researched online and I found it on Virtual Earth (live.com): http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/9420/livesearchmaprm3.jpg ... Google Earth tells me it belongs to two radio stations (side by side): http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/7369/googleearthrevealedpurptm3.jpg

I wonder if these are causing interferences to my KTLA 5 digital feed! Is that possible?

I have a feeling this is causing intereferences. Does anyone know about radio transmission vs. digital TV antennae. Here's the zoomed out Google Earth map: http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/372/gezoomedoutkz0.jpg ...

More info. and interesting read and viewing (photographs): http://www.fybush.com/sites/2006/site-060127.html ... "Radio reception in these very well-screened buildings (which are effectively giant Faraday cages) is terrible!". Heh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KTNQ , http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/amq?call=KTNQ , http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/info?call=KTNQ&service=AM , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KTLK_(AM) , and http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/amq?call=KTLK ...


Earlier today, KTLA 5.1 ranged from 79% to 85% within the last three minutes. See, this is what I want and I haven't even changed and moved my antenna! When things get really bad which happen once in a while, it can go low as 50% or worse, no signal locks, as I noted in my earlier posts. Even with the crazy rain weather over the last few nights still gave me strong signals. Right now, it is clear blue outside. The tree with all its leaves, behind my window, is still there too. :) I don't know what's going on. :(

We just bought a house in Newport Beach and I'm trying to figure which OTA antenna to put up. My one-story house is located on a hill at 100 ft of elevation, but the neighborhood crests up about another 30 feet between me and Mt. Wilson. There are also some big trees in the neighborhood.

I checked out AntennaWeb, TvFool and I read a many of the excellent posts on this site. I'm pondering what step to take next. I may experiment with moving around a small indoor antenna on the roof to see what I get.

Any advice would be greatly apreciated.

We just bought a house in Newport Beach and I'm trying to figure which OTA antenna to put up. My one-story house is located on a hill at 100 ft of elevation, but the neighborhood crests up about another 30 feet between me and Mt. Wilson. There are also some big trees in the neighborhood.

I checked out AntennaWeb, TvFool and I read a many of the excellent posts on this site. I'm pondering what step to take next. I may experiment with moving around a small indoor antenna on the roof to see what I get.

Any advice would be greatly apreciated.Can you take photographs facing the Mt. Wilson from inside the house so we can get an idea? ;)

phildaant: That group of towers you circled is on Mt Wilson.

AM band is such a low freq, it won't cause problems to TV band....and you aren't all that close.

I used FCC FM Search function to find all stations within about 20 km and didn't find much to worry
about: KRCV-FM (98.3 MHz) is about 15 km away but is only 6 kW....with lots of freq separation.
KSPC-FM (88.7 MHz) might cause problems to CH5/6 if you used a Preamp
(that's what an FM Trap is for), but it's only 3 kW and much further away (about 25 km)....

Guess again....Go Fish....Fishing for different antenna locations/heights....

phildaant: That group of towers you circled is on Mt Wilson.

AM band is such a low freq, it won't cause problems to TV band....and you aren't all that close.

I used FCC FM Search function to find all stations within about 20 km and didn't find much to worry
about: KEBN-FM (94.3 MHz) and KWIZ-FM (96.7) are 10-15 km away but are only 6 kW.
KSPC-FM (88.7 MHz) might cause problems to CH5/6 if you used a Preamp
(that's what an FM Trap is for), but it's only 3 kW and much further away....

Guess again....Go Fish....Fishing for different antenna locations/heights....Yeah, I know those are onMt. Wilson. I downloaded an addon from tvfool.com for Google Earth. It helps to analyze the problem visually. I don't use a preamp. Thanks for confirming on that radio station not causing interferences. You're the second guy on this. Darn. :(

Anyways, right now my KTLA digital feed is 70% to 80% which is good compared to the past with low signals. They come and go. :(

Recently KTLA has been having severe issues with their digital transmissions. I was blaming my D* signal at first, it kept digitizing. Then I was on my OTA antenna and KTLA went black for 10 minutes or so during the Morning Show. :eek: I think it was on Friday, maybe Thursday.

Recently KTLA has been having severe issues with their digital transmissions. I was blaming my D* signal at first, it kept digitizing. Then I was on my OTA antenna and KTLA went black for 10 minutes or so during the Morning Show. :eek: I think it was on Friday, maybe Thursday.I had those before at night time for Smallville in the past. I didn't watch KTLA in the mornings on those two days so I can't say if I had the same exact problems during the same hours. Were you signals low too and was this your first time?

I had those before at night time for Smallville in the past. I didn't watch KTLA in the mornings on those two days so I can't say if I had the same exact problems during the same hours. Were you signals low too and was this your first time?

I do most of my viewing through D* and have noticed lots of issues with KTLA in the morning. Usually they correct quickly so by the time I would switch to the antenna it would be over. The other day it was so huge I had time to switch and see no KTLA at all on the antenna. I didn't check for signal as the analog was good so I figured their antenna hadn't fallen over. :rolleyes:

I do most of my viewing through D* and have noticed lots of issues with KTLA in the morning. Usually they correct quickly so by the time I would switch to the antenna it would be over. The other day it was so huge I had time to switch and see no KTLA at all on the antenna. I didn't check for signal as the analog was good so I figured their antenna hadn't fallen over. :rolleyes:Is this the only station you had problems with (not just lately)? It is only KTLA for me.

Is this the only station you had problems with (not just lately)? It is only KTLA for me.

Yup mostly KTLA.

Yup mostly KTLA.Interesting. Yeah, I have noticed this since end of 2005. :(

Yeah, I know those are onMt. Wilson. I downloaded an addon from tvfool.com for Google Earth. It helps to analyze the problem visually. I don't use a preamp. Thanks for confirming on that radio station not causing interferences. You're the second guy on this. Darn. :(

Anyways, right now my KTLA digital feed is 70% to 80% which is good compared to the past with low signals. They come and go. :(A few days ago, my backyard neighbor's big tree was cut down with most of the leaves off (almost bare with its bare trunks and a few thin branches now) down the hill that was blocking my window view to Mt. Wilson. I noticed my KTLA5 digital signal is at 48%-58% and is KABC7 is down to 45%-53%. I haven't had any signal losses or feed corruptions within the last two minutes for each station/channel. As you can see, the big tree doesn't affect my feeds.

Does it still sound like interferences from multipaths?

A few days ago, my backyard neighbor's big tree was cut down with most of the leaves off (almost bare with its bare trunks and a few thin branches now) down the hill that was blocking my window view to Mt. Wilson. I noticed my KTLA5 digital signal is at 48%-58% and is KABC7 is down to 45%-53%. I haven't had any signal losses or feed corruptions within the last two minutes for each station/channel. As you can see, the big tree doesn't affect my feeds.

Does it still sound like interferences from multipaths?Wow, 36% to 42% on KABC right now during the ending of Lakers game (3 minutes). :( However, my picture and audio were perfect that I could tell. KTLA 5 was up to 70-80% compared to this morning.

Wow, 36% to 42% on KABC right now during the ending of Lakers game (3 minutes). :( However, my picture and audio were perfect that I could tell. KTLA 5 was up to 70-80% compared to this morning.
Right now is a time for some super violent winds out there, so if I had to guess I would say they may have something to do with decreased signal strength at least intermittently. I've lost a couple of stations that I normally have tonight as well.
Bad weather appears to be quite a factor for OTA reception. :(

Rudy

Right now is a time for some super violent winds out there, so if I had to guess I would say they may have something to do with decreased signal strength at least intermittently. I've lost a couple of stations that I normally have tonight as well.
Bad weather appears to be quite a factor for OTA reception. :(Where are the winds at? There's none in my home area and in Los Angeles today. I find it amusing that my KTLA is strong. I wonder if the signals are being pushed to my direction. I didn't even know winds/air movements could affect signals.

Where are the winds at? There's none in my home area and in Los Angeles today. I find it amusing that my KTLA is strong. I wonder if the signals are being pushed to my direction. I didn't even know winds/air movements could affect signals.As of 8:45 PM PST, the signal is back to 70ish% for KABC and 80ish% for KTLA.

We will all have a unique opportunity to compare what a great negative effect subchannels have on PQ when both KNBC & KCBS will simulcast the Patriots game with the NFL network this Saturday.Look for much more pixellation on KNBC who keep insisting on carrying stupid subchannels thus ruining the quality on their HD broadcast.The massive pixellation every Sunday night has bothered me for a long time and it got even worse with the introduction of digital raw 4.4.I really wish that they would consider changing to 720p like KCET did as the pixellation is now much less nowadays.I really wish KNBC would do something before this summer with the Bejing Olympics comming up but i'm sure NBC is mandating 1080i for owned and operated stations.


Also posted in the TWC thread.

Has KVCR stopped broadcasting their digital channels? Or am I simply no longer able to tune them in? I recently changed my antenna setup and am no longer receiving them. The analog channel 24 comes in but not the digital equivalents. My Silver Sensor used to be mounted on the LNBs of my Satellite Dish, since I wasn't using the Satellite Dish for any other purpose. :) Well I sold the Satellite Dish last week and now noticed that 24.1 - 24.3 no longer come in. Help. Someone tell me if they are still able to receive KVCRs digital channels.

Is KVCR back yet? I found this article which may have something to do with it.

http://broadcastengineering.com/products/kvcrtv_automates_sundance_digital/

We will all have a unique opportunity to compare what a great negative effect subchannels have on PQ when both KNBC & KCBS will simulcast the Patriots game with the NFL network this Saturday.

This will be interesting. NBC never seems to have its act together with regards to picture quality, but I have thought it is a problem with the source. CBS has always looked better than any other major network from what I have seen. However, the PQ seems pretty poor on Fox, which also doesn't have a sub-channel.

Their official web page is at http://www.kfla.tv. They may have started Sep 25th 2007... But I cant get it where I am at even though I am in the area for it... (OTA for me is still a no-go)


They should have the following:
8.1 America One : http://www.americaone.com
8.2 Corner Store TV : (looks like informercials) http://www.cornerstoretv.com

Is anyone able to get this station yet? I found it when doing a scan today, but it is too weak for me to pick it up. (I'm in one of its nulls.)

It is on VHF 8.

Is anyone able to get this station yet?

Hi there

I can receive KFLA, 8.1, but it is not as stong (70%) as KABC-DT at 92% or KSCI-DT at 78%. Channel 8.1 is standard def.

Regards

Is KVCR back yet? I found this article which may have something to do with it.

http://broadcastengineering.com/products/kvcrtv_automates_sundance_digital/

Boy I'd love an answer to this question so I can stop moving my antenna and looking for this channel if it isn't being broadcast.

Anyone?
Rudy

Is KVCR back yet? I found this article which may have something to do with it.

http://broadcastengineering.com/products/kvcrtv_automates_sundance_digital/
Hey Falcon.

Well tonight I was finally able to find a spot for my Silver Sensor where it was able to receive KVCR. I had to raise it at least 6 feet off the ground and I am on the second floor and point almost directly due east, it is pointing maybe 5 - 10 degrees north otherwise it is almost all due east and sure enough KVCR came in. Basically the more east I point the stronger the signal. However, the more east I go the more I lose KABC, so I'll have to look for a sweet spot if I don't want to move it back and forth all the time.

As I mentioned before they chose to transmit in 720p and have 4 subchannels. :( Although 24.4 has no image on it at the moment. They are showing Austin City Limits at the moment and it is Pillarboxed (black bars on the sides and top and bottom). I am yet to see a show in full HD on this channel. :confused:
Looking at zap2it.com listing for this channel, the only show I see coming up and identified as HD is "It's a Big Big World" at 5am tomorrow. So if anyone has seen a show in HD on this channel (24.1) I'd really like to hear it. Although sometimes it seems like only Falcon and I are interested in this channel. :)

Yipee I'm happy. :) :D

Once I settle on the antenna position I'll post some signal strength numbers for holl_ands.

Rudy

Is anyone able to get this station yet? I found it when doing a scan today, but it is too weak for me to pick it up. (I'm in one of its nulls.)

It is on VHF 8.

I was actually getting this fool thing here in Tustin last night, even though Tustin is allegedly smack dab in the middle of their biggest null. It was glitchy, but mostly watchable.

It would have been REALLY cool if there had been something worth watching. :rolleyes:

I live in Irvine (Northwood area). I got fed up with the high cost of HD with Cox, so I put a Radio Shack 2160 antenna in my attic. Without any amplification, I'm getting ABC, NBC, CBS, CW, FOX, and 3 PBS channels in HD flawlessly (not to mention a bunch of other channels). I spent about 40 bucks on the antenna setup.

I'm 40 miles from the broadcast towers on Mt. Wilson, so I was quite impressed that my setup works so well. Thanks antennaweb!

ATT has local phone + DSL for $21/month now. So bye-bye Cox.

Now all I need to do is get an OTA HD DVR without a subscription fee. Hopefully some affordable ones are coming in 2008.

Now all I need to do is get an OTA HD DVR without a subscription fee. Hopefully some affordable ones are coming in 2008.

Nire - Congrats on the switch. I'm in Rancho Santa Margarita, and made the switch to OTA about a year ago - lovin' it. You're lucky you get such good reception, I had to risk life & limb putting the antenna on the roof, and I still can't get Fox.

As for the DVR, you can buy a MYHD MDP-130 for about $140 and create your own DVR box from an old desktop computer. You just need enough hard drive space to record. I think HD takes 8GB per hour. There's ton's written here on the MDP-130. I did this on one PC and will convert a 2nd PC for my 2nd flat screen. It's not perfect, but it's very cool, and no monthly fees!

Main MDP-130 thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=493691

MDP-130 FAQ: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=647837

Anyone else up and noticing that KTLA's Rose Parade Countdown is in HD! I hope this is the start of a celebration of their new HD field cameras and not just a rental for the event! I wasn't up early enough to see if the pre-parade was also in HD at 6AM.

Happy New Year!!

:D

You're lucky you get such good reception, I had to risk life & limb putting the antenna on the roof, and I still can't get Fox.

That makes sense. Fox is my weakest channel, but still good enough at around 60-75% strength. Thanks for the info on MYHD. I think I'll hold out for something easier to use (WAF).

BTW, are you getting TV Guide On Screen? If so, do you know which LA channel broadcasts it?

BTW, are you getting TV Guide On Screen? If so, do you know which LA channel broadcasts it?

Hi there

That sounds like a cable TV feature. No broadcaster will bother or use its bandwidth to list what's available on another network's channel.
If you use a DVR or home theater PC, then there are downloadable program guides.

Regards

Hi there

That sounds like a cable TV feature. No broadcaster will bother or use its bandwidth to list what's available on another network's channel.
If you use a DVR or home theater PC, then there are downloadable program guides.

Regards

Sure it works! Generally PBS broadcasts the info, but I can't confirm that for sure. It works just fine on my Mitsubishi TV w/TV Guide.

Sure it works! Generally PBS broadcasts the info, but I can't confirm that for sure. It works just fine on my Mitsubishi TV w/TV Guide.

And to which cable or satellite service do you subscribe?

And to which cable or satellite service do you subscribe?
It doesn't matter for this discussion (but I think Joe is on DirectTV IIRC). It comes right off the air. The TV Guide on my Pioneer 110FD gets the data just fine as well from my OTA antenna. And I'm on AT&T U-Verse if you really want to know ;)

And to which cable or satellite service do you subscribe?

D* by choice since Nov.
and TWC via my Condo assoc.

BUT TV Guide works on my OTA input only!!

So to which OTA broadcast channel can I tune, and receive this "TV Guide"?

So to which OTA broadcast channel can I tune, and receive this "TV Guide"?

You don't need to "tune" any channel per se. If your equipment is capable it will search and find it automatically. Locally KCET broadscsts the TV Guide (yes it really is "TV Guide") in the vertical retrace interval of their signal. There is nothing to see in the OTA video channels.

Okay, I think I found the answer to my question.

There is no regular broadcast channel (digital or analog) that displays a program guide.

"TV Guide On Screen" (the same phrase used by nire) is a special data stream that is broadcast (several times a day), and can be used to display a program guide if you have the hardware to receive and display it. joe221 and jasonvr apparently have newer display devices that support this TVGOS feature. The digital tuners installed in my HTPCs do not support the TVGOS feature.

nire probably had TVGOS through the cableTV STB. Unless Erin's TV also has TVGOS, then no more TVGOS.

Regards

http://www.tvguideonscreen.com/

Okay, I think I found the answer to my question.

There is no regular broadcast channel (digital or analog) that displays a program guide.

"TV Guide On Screen" (the same phrase used by nire) is a special data stream that is broadcast (several times a day), and can be used to display a program guide if you have the hardware to receive and display it. joe221 and jasonvr apparently have newer display devices that support this TVGOS feature. The digital tuners installed in my HTPCs do not support the TVGOS feature.

nire probably had TVGOS through the cableTV STB. Unless Erin's TV also has TVGOS, then no more TVGOS.

Regards

http://www.tvguideonscreen.com/

I have a Mitubishi WD65833 and it's TVG capable. It just gets it on the ATSC signal side.

Yeah, I have a 50" Panasonic Plasma TV that has built in guide capability. I haven't left the antenna hooked up long enough for it to get the guide. I'll post again if I'm successful.

KNBC4DT out for me right now. Anyone else experiencing this?

KFLA-LD channel is 8 is transmitting for Mt. Wilson at 300 watts ERP. This is the maximum allowed by the FCC for a VHF digital LP. To see their coverage map look at:
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=LD1208527.html.

The question of HDTV from the field for the local TV stations keep coming up. Every TV station in the US is in the process of replacing all of it's 2 GHz ENG microwave. Until this is completed you will only see HDTV from those stations that have their new digital microwave. Some stations may have one of two sites that are converted but not all of the 10+ receive sites that a lot of stations have.

OK I have a question for holl_ands, and/or anyone else who is expert in the matter or has experience in such. Fry's happens to carry Channel Master antennas and from time to time they put them on sale. Well at the moment they have a CM 4221 for $30 in their Sunday paper ad, and this price is only good until Tuesday the 8th. The reason I mention this is to ask: How close is this to the 4228 and is it a valid alternative? The regular price for 4221 is $50. So it's a $20 discount.
When they do put 4228 on sale it goes from $70 to $50. However, I haven't seen that in a few months. So my question is: Is it worth getting this antenna for a few bucks less and a lot of space less? :) Or should I hold out until 4228?

Thanks to all.
Rudy

In your West L.A. location, CM4221 (a "real" antenna) should be a big step up
from your Silver Sensor (a "toy" with unusual performance) and might even
be "okay" for VHF in the future.

And the broad beamwidth of the CM4221 "MAY" be enough to bring in KVCR-DT (PBS)
if you search around for an angle that works for both directions.

CM4228 has more UHF and plenty more hi-VHF gain, but is probably overkill for you.

YMMV: Don't you just love it when I try to never give an absolute YES/NO answer????

In your West L.A. location, CM4221 (a "real" antenna) should be a big step up
from your Silver Sensor (a "toy" with unusual performance) and might even
be "okay" for VHF in the future.

And the broad beamwidth of the CM4221 "MAY" be enough to bring in KVCR-DT (PBS)
if you search around for an angle that works for both directions.

CM4228 has more UHF and plenty more hi-VHF gain, but is probably overkill for you.

YMMV: Don't you just love it when I try to never give an absolute YES/NO answer????

:)

Personally I'm just happy you are here, whatever you choose to donate in your replies. Now the 45 degree angle is awfully wide in the 4221. The 4228 only has a 15 degree and the 91xg a 25 degree. Considering where I am and how much multi path there is a potential for. Do you still think it's a better choice than the 4228 and/or 91xg?
Or is this one of those things that I'm not going to know until I buy it and try it? :)
BTW do you happen to know what the reception angle for the Silver Sensor is?
Sadly my building has no easy roof access, so a very tall ladder that goes all the way from the ground to the roof is the only way to get up there. And finding access to such a beast is proving to be quite difficult. :( So I figure I'll nail down the equipment as close to perfect as I can so when a painter or dish installer come out I can ask to use their ladder and get up there and do the job in one day.

Rudy

P.S. Incidentally I see a 4221 on top of a building that is about a block west of me, at least it looks just like a 4221. Wish I had the personality that allowed me to go over there and find the apartment unit that it belongs to and ask them how their reception is. :) Oh well, thank heaven for Internet.

Fry's happens to carry Channel Master antennas and from time to time they put them on sale.

Hi there

The 8-bay ChannelMaster was on sale at Fry's about 4 or 5 weeks ago, and was only $40 ($10 less than the previous sale prices). Although it's twice as big, the 4228 does have the advantage of having usable upper-VHF gain for a "UHF" antenna. There is already 1 digital channel in the upper-VHF band, and there will be more in 2/2009.

With a 4221 in the attic and about 35 miles from Mt Wilson, I get excellent UHF reception. Upper VHF is okay for 9, 11 and 13, but 7 is weak and not watchable.

Regards

Here are computer simulation results for Silver Sensor:
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/silver.html

and here are real world measurements:
https://secure.connect.pbs.org/conferences/technology/2005/Presentations/DTV.Receive.Antennas.ppt
http://www.dielectric.com/broadcast/pdf/Measured%20Performance%20Parameters%20for%20Receive%20Antenn as%20.pdf

Hi there

The 8-bay ChannelMaster was on sale at Fry's about 4 or 5 weeks ago, and was only $40 ($10 less than the previous sale prices). Although it's twice as big, the 4228 does have the advantage of having usable upper-VHF gain for a "UHF" antenna. There is already 1 digital channel in the upper-VHF band, and there will be more in 2/2009.

With a 4221 in the attic and about 35 miles from Mt Wilson, I get excellent UHF reception. Upper VHF is okay for 9, 11 and 13, but 7 is weak and not watchable.

Regards
Thanks blue_z I must have missed it. I'll have to be more careful in trying to catch it next time it is offered, especially at $40. It looks like I'll be holding out for 4228.
Here are computer simulation results for Silver Sensor:
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/silver.html

and here are real world measurements:
https://secure.connect.pbs.org/conferences/technology/2005/Presentations/DTV.Receive.Antennas.ppt
http://www.dielectric.com/broadcast/pdf/Measured%20Performance%20Parameters%20for%20Receive%20Antenn as%20.pdf
Interesting stuff. Thanks.

Thanks blue_z I must have missed it. I'll have to be more careful in trying to catch it next time it is offered, especially at $40. It looks like I'll be holding out for 4228.


I think the 4228 is worth holding out for, though the 4221 would probably have enough performance for your location.

I am currently using a 4220 at the office here in Irvine and the upper VHF 7 reception is almost non-existent. 9 is barely viewable, but 11 and 13 are as good as poor. I can't get the digital 8 here, but this area is still in a null. The 4228 at home does well enough for analog 7-13, but I need to test it on digital 8.

I have a friend nearby with the 4221, but his tuner doesn't have analog (the Samsung box). Perhaps he can hook it up directly to the TV for an analog test.

Is anyone else interested in KVCR? It doesn't seem like it, does it? ;)

One of these nights I need to get up in the attic and turn the 4228 towards KVCR for more tests.

As respects TGOS, I've read that CBS has agreed to carry this info.

http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6435011.html

This article goes back to last April and I haven't found out anything else. Is this still planned I wonder?

There is a video about making a Clothes Hangar Antenna on YouTube. Probably will work like one of those big bird antenna's (CM,W,etc). Also, using one clothes hanger for a directional in lieu of an indoor antenna. Has anyone done research to determine it's effectiveness as an antenna and to what range. Also saw a homemade 8 bay you can design into your house wall. In these designs little to no concern about wind. My question is to performance. Can y'all do your own research and input your opinions. Thanks!

Found it also on this link: http://www.metacafe.com/watch/762088/coat_hanger_hdtv_antenna_better_than_store_bought_amazing/

I want to utilize this, and use short runs. Could put a rotator on it. Decorate it as an animal (bird, etc).

Clothes Hangar TV.

Here's more info (incl measurements) re DIY DB-2 and DB-4 antennas:
http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=9613
Make sure there's at least 1/2-inch separation where the wires cross.

BTW: Since these are DIGITAL antennas, surely this falls under
the DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright Act) :p:
http://www.copyright.gov/legislation/dmca.pdf

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If you call around, you should be able to locate a REAL 4-Bay antenna for under $30.
Here in San Diego, you can pick up a W-G PR4400 for $26 OTC or add'l $9 to ship to L.A.:
http://shop.willyselectronics.com/browse.cfm/4,163.htm

Hi, I'm in 91007, Arcadia area, with a rooftop antenna. I have good reception on most digital channels, except that 2-1 (CBS) is very borderline, with lots of dropouts, so that I often have to switch to analog, and I don't see 11-1 or 13-1 at all, and the analog reception for those stations is mediocre.

I read in the following post that 11 and 13 are shadowed at my location.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10038933#post10038933

and this is confirmed by TVFool which shows no line of sight to 11 and 13, although based on the predicted levels I should get something.
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff262/audsyn/Radar-Digital.png

From what I read, I should be able to see most stations with a rooftop antenna (don't know the manufacturer) from my location, which would imply a hardware problem on my end. It's a longish run from the antenna to the TV, so maybe a preamp might help?

I'm especially puzzled as why the 2-1 reception is so borderline when all the neighboring stations (neighboring in both frequency and broadcast location) are fine. Is this the kind of situation where a few degrees of antenna aiming would help?

Any advice is appreciated.

Audsyn: Try reducing your run to like 10' and see what you get.

Sorry if this has already been asked, but what is going to happen next year when everything switches over to digital? What I want to know is, will all the UHF channels convert back to VHF? So like the Fox 11 digital will be VHF 11 instead of UHF 65. I am wondering because I have great reception in Perris CA using the Square Shooter 1000 and the Channel master 7777.

Thanks.

Channels 2, 4, and 5 will stay UHF. Channels 7, 9, 11, and 13 will go to VHF. The Square Shooter reportedly does a ok job on these upper VHF channels. YMMV.

Rick R

From what I read, I should be able to see most stations with a rooftop antenna (don't know the manufacturer) from my location, which would imply a hardware problem on my end. It's a longish run from the antenna to the TV, so maybe a preamp might help?

I'm especially puzzled as why the 2-1 reception is so borderline when all the neighboring stations (neighboring in both frequency and broadcast location) are fine. Is this the kind of situation where a few degrees of antenna aiming would help?


Depending on what is causing the problem, turning the antenna to an off-angle may help. This is a fairly common fix in very strong signal areas.

I would not suggest a pre-amp in your location as the signals are very strong for the most part and will likely overload any pre-amp.

Is it possible to run a new cable to the antenna for test purposes? What kind of cable are you using now? RG-6 is recommended over RG-59 or especially twin-lead.

Audsyn: Try reducing your run to like 10' and see what you get.

I don't think I can get it to 10', but I can probably get it from 50' down to 20'. You suspect excessive cable loss is the culprit?