Two words: MOBILE TV.....which could include traffic updates to your car and videos
for the unruly backseaters. And don't forget the watch at lunch while working crowd.
And sports fans at venues everywhere checking replays, stats & scores for other games....

Strange just started a couple of days ago only on KTTV it will be fine if its a live event like news or a football game but as soon as it goes to commercial or say a move it starts stuttering . Only on KTTV Fox no other ch in hd .

yes, heavy pixelation

Well my signal is back to crap again (analog only). Guess I'll proceed with putting that antenna up this weekend, if the weather is decent.

I’m not sure KBEH TV Oxnard, is even broadcasting digitally yet. At least from Mt. Wilson it isn’t as with its analog signal. And there may be a reason for that. KBEH’s assigned DTV channel is 24, which is presently used by PBS station KVCR’s analog signal in San Bernardino. Therefore, it could be that KBEH-DT may not begin digital broadcasting as channel 24.1 (plus any sub-channels) until after the 2/09 transition when KVCR will vacate the channel.

Anyone know if KBEH will be broadcasting digital from Mt Wilson, in Feb 09? TVfool use to indicate that it would be my strongest signal, post transition. After the TVfool format change on Oct 5, 08, they don't show it coming from Mt wilson, post transition.

Antennaweb dot org still shows post transition from Mt Wison.

KBEH has an application pending for a Mt. Wilson facility, but it has not been granted.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=649339

I have a Zenith Silver Sensor UHF antenna for digital reception. But after Feb 19, do I need a VHF antenna for KCOP, KCAL, KABC, and KTTV since they will be switching to VHF?These channels are switching to VHF on Feb 19th? I was under the impression that all the L.A. stations were going to remain on UHF after the transition....(?)

Luckily i'm using a VHF/UHF roof antenna but some of the antenna companies (like Channel Master) have discontinued most of their combo antennas.

KBEH has an application pending for a Mt. Wilson facility, but it has not been granted.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=649339

Thanks

These channels are switching to VHF on Feb 19th? I was under the impression that all the L.A. stations were going to remain on UHF after the transition....(?)

Yes, 7, 9, 11 & 13 are returning to VHF, so an upper VHF/UHF combo or separates will be needed. CM and Winegard both have new combos, covering 7-51/69. KCBS, KNBC & KTLA are remaining on UHF, though KCBS is moving to 43 from 60.

It would have been easier to remain UHF only locally, as some areas of the country are doing (e.g. Salt Lake City), but viewers unable to receive UHF signals due to hills and mountains, may welcome the change.

However, ground floor VHF reception with an indoor antenna, is not going to be enough for some areas.

For more information, check out the spreadsheet (link in my signature), rabbitears.info or TV Fool.

KCAL 9's Construction Permit for 25kW on 9 has been granted, vs. the original 12kW allocation, though I still question most of the power being directed to the NE.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=646056

I think may be the radiation pattern of the antenna is not suitable for that region.i do want to know the type of antenna it was whether it is a horn type etc..
----
sathyan
For Sale By Owner (http://fsbo.fastrealestate.net)

How are you guys able to go to channel 7.1, 7.2, 7.3 , etc.
I got a square shooter and held it with my hand and switched my 20LCD tv to Air instead of Cable, and i can press 7, but there is no 7.1
do i need a different TV? This LCD tv is by Sharp that i bought in 2003.

Thanks a lot folks.

How are you guys able to go to channel 7.1, 7.2, 7.3 , etc.
I got a square shooter and held it with my hand and switched my 20LCD tv to Air instead of Cable, and i can press 7, but there is no 7.1
do i need a different TV? This LCD tv is by Sharp that i bought in 2003.

Thanks a lot folks.

Sounds like you don't have a digital tuner in that set. Welcome to the merry world of converter boxes.

Hey Guys,

I'm getting HD channels OTA in Brentwood with my Terk HDTVA antenna.

Over the past few days I've been seeing noticeable grain on some of the channels. For example, Letterman looked a lot worse last night than Leno and there seemed to be some judder/stuttering/out of sync when there were close up shots of the actors faces. (Sorry if that's a horrible description..its the best I could do)

Just wanted to know if anyone else has noticed any issues with the CBS Late Show feed or if its just me and my XBR4. One thing I did do was upgrade my firmware earlier this week. I'm not sure if this was just coincidence due to a bad feed or if the firmware update affected the image quality.

Thanks!

Hey Guys,

I'm getting HD channels OTA in Brentwood with my Terk HDTVA antenna.

Over the past few days I've been seeing noticeable grain on some of the channels. For example, Letterman looked a lot worse last night than Leno and there seemed to be some judder/stuttering/out of sync when there were close up shots of the actors faces. (Sorry if that's a horrible description..its the best I could do)

Just wanted to know if anyone else has noticed any issues with the CBS Late Show feed or if its just me and my XBR4. One thing I did do was upgrade my firmware earlier this week. I'm not sure if this was just coincidence due to a bad feed or if the firmware update affected the image quality.

Thanks!

I am in Sherman Oaks with an old (30 year old) roof antenna and have not seen any of the problerms you mentioned on any of our three OTA digital TVs. Perhaps the firmware update actually does have something to do with your change in image quality.

Hey Guys,

I'm getting HD channels OTA in Brentwood with my Terk HDTVA antenna.

Over the past few days I've been seeing noticeable grain on some of the channels. For example, Letterman looked a lot worse last night than Leno and there seemed to be some judder/stuttering/out of sync when there were close up shots of the actors faces. (Sorry if that's a horrible description..its the best I could do)

Just wanted to know if anyone else has noticed any issues with the CBS Late Show feed or if its just me and my XBR4. One thing I did do was upgrade my firmware earlier this week. I'm not sure if this was just coincidence due to a bad feed or if the firmware update affected the image quality.

Thanks!


Generally speaking, with digital TV, if you see any changes in picture quality that you did not see previously using the same equipment, it is in the broadcast itself. I do not watch the CBS Late Show (past my bedtime!), but I do often watch the CSI programs on KCBS. I have not noticed any grain there, although some broadcasts seem a bit softer (less sharp) than others on my Elite 60" 1080p plasma.

I guess I'll go and test on a family member's set. The peace of mind that its not the firmware would be nice.

Thanks for the replies guys. I know I sound like a total noob. :)

KLCS has "disappeared" from 58 and is on its "real" channel 41 today.

I stayed at San Clemente State Beach this weekend. Using the amplified Winegard antenna, I was able to get all L.A channels except for KABC and quite a few from San Diego as well. The TV Fool report had not been promising so I was quite surprised.

I stayed at San Clemente State Beach this weekend. Using the amplified Winegard antenna, I was able to get all L.A channels except for KABC and quite a few from San Diego as well. The TV Fool report had not been promising so I was quite surprised.


That is surprising, since KABC is rather strong, and there are some much weaker stations, such as KCOP, KTTV, KCET etc.

That is surprising, since KABC is rather strong, and there are some much weaker stations, such as KCOP, KTTV, KCET etc.

KABC is my 2nd or 3rd weakest station in South OC and I have read reports of other problems with it from various other local viewers. I need a pre-amp for it (and KCOP) to be reliable.

2nd Soft Analog Shut-Off Test

The LA area will be participating in the national test on Wednesday. I have received the following info from KNBC as respects the local times. Hopefully, I will be better prepared this time to capture all of the stations, but two minutes is still too short.

The DTV link is a good idea. I will suggest it. Wednesday's tests in the LA Market will be for two minutes each, at 6:28am and 11:28pm. About 90% of the TV stations in the market will participate. And we recommend you check ALL TV sets in your home.

The reference to the DTV link is the lack of one on KNBC's home page. When found (one had to put DTV in the search box), it has decent information, though it appears to actually be a national page.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/station/digitaltv/Get_the_Picture.html

KABC is my 2nd or 3rd weakest station in South OC and I have read reports of other problems with it from various other local viewers. I need a pre-amp for it (and KCOP) to be reliable.


That is interesting. KABC is strong here (Porter Ranch area, NW SFV), but KCOP is impossible, even with a +28db antenna mounted-preamp. KTTV is solid under most weather conditions, but disappears during Santa Ana conditions, and is intermittent in rain. KCET is better, but still becomes intermittent under windy conditions. I sincerely hope that the the changeover in February fixes these problems.

KABC is my 2nd or 3rd weakest station in South OC and I have read reports of other problems with it from various other local viewers. I need a pre-amp for it (and KCOP) to be reliable.

When it's raining like today, I can't receive KTTV, KCET, and KCOP becuz they are located in the upper UHF band where there is more rain attenuation and becuz my wet roof blocks the signal to my attic mounted antenna. I need to move it outside when the sun shines.

When it's raining like today, I can't receive KTTV, KCET, and KCOP becuz they are located in the upper UHF band where there is more rain attenuation and becuz my wet roof blocks the signal to my attic mounted antenna. I need to move it outside when the sun shines.

That will doubtless make a big improvement. Rainy weather still attenuates the signal through the atmosphere, however, and I noticed that, even with a roof antenna, KTTV is still about 50% off and on today, and thus unsuitalbe for viewing.

How are you guys able to go to channel 7.1, 7.2, 7.3 , etc.
I got a square shooter and held it with my hand and switched my 20LCD tv to Air instead of Cable, and i can press 7, but there is no 7.1
do i need a different TV? This LCD tv is by Sharp that i bought in 2003.Yeah that old of a TV will only an NTSC tuner and cannot tune the digital channels. ATSC tuners started appearing on the larger TVs around 2005 and about a year later on the smaller sizes. I have a 2003 Sharp 20" LCD TV in a bedroom and i use a Radio Shack Digital Stream DTX9950 DTV converter box to pull in the ATSC channels and SD on that TV never looked so good :)

The local repeater is dark for TBN. Channel 45 here in the Ventura Avenue area along Highway 33. Happens occasionally. When will these types of stations go digital. When will it start getting people's attention in the press.

I think TBN plans to flash-cut their repeaters around 02/17, but don't quote me on that. The Wilmington digital test in September involved the local TBN translator, that's why I think so.

- Trip

Trip- What does flash-cut mean?

Switch them from analog to digital.

- Trip

I saw a quick flash about KTTV 11 performing a DTV Transition test at 8:17am 10:17pm and 12:17pm

but I did not see what day they were going to do this.

Does anyone have a schedule of when they are planning on running this test..

are the other stations going to be testing too?

Are there going to be more tests between now and february

Is doing a test tonight during the 6pm news at 6:20. Putting a notice up about the transition on analog while continuing to broadcast on digital. Near the end of the broadcast.

I did a search for new channels and suddenly had KTBN show up when it had been missing before. With the same antenna it went from not even being detected to showing up crystal clear with strong signal. I'm not very religious but I am intrigued by what changed. I really wish I knew what happened to THIS-TV that was supposed to show up on 56.3. I was really looking forward to checking it out.

There was an analog shut-off test this morning. At least 2-9 participated, but I was not able to check the others in time. KABC had a countdown for it, so I was watching theirs until I decided to check the others. Just before 6:30am is a good time to catch people before their commutes.

However, I was expecting these tests just before 6:30pm, not am, so I don't know what's going to happen tonight.

Thanks to all, I have been loitering and have gotten pretty far with the info I have gleaned. I am in Fullerton on the south base of sunny hills. picked up a converter box, ran a new coax put up a taller mast and each step has brought better reception, I have still never picked up 13 or 40 and 4, 7, 11,28 and 58 come in sometimes with signal strength 28 to 36. I am still useing the old vhs/uhf antenna and have to convert the coax into a two wire conector. I know I need get a new antenna any recomendations for my area and do I need to use standoffs for the coax or can I clip direct to the stucco. I also have a boosted spliter so I can serve two rooms. So much for just pick up a box and plug in in huh? Thanks Doug

I am still useing the old vhs/uhf antenna and have to convert the coax into a two wire conector.

If the antenna has broken elements, etc. it may need to be replaced. Did you replace all the old cabling or do you have old sections left.

The signals should be strong in most parts of Fullerton, but I would suggest running a plot at TVFool.com to check.

The boosted splitter may be causing problems, so you may want to try it w/o for now and run the cabling to just one TV for testing purposes.

No, it's not going to be as simple as buying a box for many people. The PSA's have not been doing a good job of managing expectations.

Did anyone get major video (example: http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/2595/snapshot20081217230609bh3.jpg ) and audio dropouts (first one started about 20 minutes in the hour) tonight during Pushing Daisies episode or just me? The rain storm must be screwing my feeds up. :(

Thank you in advance. :)

Did anyone get major video and audio dropouts (first one started about 20 minutes in the hour) tonight during Pushing Daisies episode

Yes. I'm watching an OTA HD recording now, and it has major breakups. If you hadn't reported it, I would have been in your shoes wondering what happened.

Regards

Yes. I'm watching an OTA HD recording now, and it has major breakups. If you hadn't reported it, I would have been in your shoes wondering what happened.Thanks Blue_z. I wonder if the rain storm was causing it or the original feeds had this problem to affect other cities.

Did anyone get major video (example: http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/2595/snapshot20081217230609bh3.jpg ) and audio dropouts (first one started about 20 minutes in the hour) tonight during Pushing Daisies episode or just me? The rain storm must be screwing my feeds up. :(

Thank you in advance. :)
Yup same thing here in WLA. Very annoying indeed. :mad: Especially when it happens during my Favorite Show (Pushing Daisies).

Rudy

Yup same thing here in WLA. Very annoying indeed. :mad: Especially when it happens during my Favorite Show (Pushing Daisies).Ugh, don't get me started with ABC's sxing that show. That show is SO BEAUTIFUL in HD!!

Strange just started a couple of days ago only on KTTV it will be fine if its a live event like news or a football game but as soon as it goes to commercial or say a move it starts stuttering . Only on KTTV Fox no other ch in hd .

I have the same problem with KTTV and only KTTV. On some commercials its stop and go movement. While trying to watch The Simpsons I was getting the same thing. I was watching Kitchen Nightmares last night and it didn't exhibit this problem. Some but not all of the commercials had this problem as well.

I have the same problem with KTTV and only KTTV. On some commercials its stop and go movement. While trying to watch The Simpsons I was getting the same thing. I was watching Kitchen Nightmares last night and it didn't exhibit this problem. Some but not all of the commercials had this problem as well.


This stop and go effect is likely the result of a weak signal. KTTV has a "substrandard" signal strength, and I find it unwatchable during windy or rainy weather conditions. During a strong Santa Ana condition, KTTV disappears completely. I hope the situation improves dramatically after the February changeover.

Single story home near Mile Square Park here in Westminster, CA.
Had a guy put up a rooftop antenna years ago - spent about $250 for a mid-sized (what he said) antenna, and he aimed it in the general direction he thought would optimize the reception. Pointed approximately NNW.

Antenna has 10 rows of horizontal elements, Y shaped thing at the end with 5 rows each.

Receiver - either a Panasonic EZ48 VHS/DVD recording deck or my laptop with a Hauppauge WinTV 950 USB HDTV Tuner.
http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-electronics/shop/Video/DVD-Recorders-Players/DVD-Recorders/model.DMR-EZ48VK_11002_7000000000000005702
http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hvr950.html

Channels recevied:
Digital Channels recevied 12/2008
Rooftop antenna 92683 single story home
KFTR-DT 1461
KTLA-DT 1051
KDOC-HD 1561
KDOCSD1 1562
THIS-TV 1563
KMEX-DT 1341
NBC-4LA 1041
WX-Plus 1042
NewsRaw 1044
ION 1301
qubo 1302
IONLife 1303
Worship 1304
KLCS-DT 1581
KLCS-DT 1 1582
KLCS-DT 2 1583
KLCS-DT 3 1584
atsc-6 2006
KWHY-HD 1221
KWHY-SD 1222
KAZA-DT 1541
KOCE-HD 1501
KOCE-OC 1502
KOCE-SD 1504
Daystar 1503
KJLA-DT 1571
LATV 1572
KVMD-DT 1573
KXLA-DT 1441
KVMD-DT 1 1442
Sk-DTV 1443
IAVC 1446
KABC-DT 1071
KABC-SD 1072
KABC-WN 1073
KCET-HD 1281
KCET-OC 1282
KCBS-DT 1021
LA18.1 1181
LA18.8 1188
LA18.5 1185
LA18.7 1187
LA18.3 1183
LA18.6 1186
KTTV DT 1111
KRCA-DT 1621
KRCA-DT 1 1622
KTBN-D1 1401
KTBN-D2 1402
KTBN-D3 1403
KTBN-D4 1404
KTBN-D5 1405
KVEA-HD 1521
KVEA-SD 1522
KCAL-DT 1091
KCET-Vm 1283
KCET-W 1284
KCOP DT 1131

Analog Channels received
Ant-2 2
Ant-4 4
Ant-5 5
Ant-7 7
Ant-8 8
Ant-9 9
Ant-10 10
Ant-11 11
Ant-13 13
Ant-18 18
Ant-22 22
Ant-27 27
Ant-28 28
Ant-30 30
Ant-33 33
Ant-34 34
Ant-40 40
Ant-44 44
Ant-45 45
Ant-46 46
Ant-50 50
Ant-52 52
Ant-54 54
Ant-56 56
Ant-57 57
Ant-58 58
Ant-62 62
Ant-63 63
Ant-67 67

Basically, everything comes in crystal clear, no dropouts, or problems of any sort using the rooftop antenna. Essentially, everything we got with analog...which was pretty good already... but better because there's no static or noise (eg. our CH2 & 4 analog has some natural analog static/noise (due to distance) when making recordings of shows like Stars on Ice, but digital anything is crisp as can be).

Laptop on the single vertical mini-antenna provided with the WinTV 950 USB tuner works decently well in the bedroom with a north facing window. You do have to move it around to pickup CH 4, 11, 13 reliably but otherwise, the other channels come in just fine.

Other analog TVs around the house connected to the Zenith HDTV tuner box (sold at CircuitCity, bought on goverment coupon program) connected to the Radio Shack single cheap bow tie UHF antenna (~$5 or so) works fine as well for the most part. Some manual moving about is needed for a few channels to pull them in without dropouts, but otherwise, once tuned just right, no problems at all there either.

I might just buy one of those Antennas Direct DB2 Multi Directional HDTV Antenna from Amazon.com later on, but given that all of the digital channels do come in using the Radio Shack bowtie, it's a toss up between moving the bowtie a little bit now before a show (only for the 3-4 channels that need this adjustment - the rest come in regardless of the antenna position usually) and then vs. spending more for an antenna that won't get me any more channels for now.
(http://www.amazon.com/Antennas-Direct-DB2-Directional-Antenna/dp/B000EHUE7I/ref=pd_sim_e_1)

In any case, "24" Redemption came in nice and clear on the WinTV 950, and there's nothing like HDTV recordings to the hard drive!! (Oh, I SO wish USA would hurry up and see the light of day for BluRay recorders ala Japan!!!!) I always laugh at those commercial offers for your own copy of the show on sale later that week! - why on earth would I spend $$ for a low-def DVD copy of the show when I've got it recorded HD live OTA?

Same with football as well!! Nothing like the Superbowl from last year and Manning bouncing the pass off the helmet in HD recordings!

(KEY here!!!! Use MPG2CUT2 http://www.videohelp.com/tools/Mpg2Cut2 to 'adjust' the *.TS recordings off the WinTV950 so you can play it in Media Player Classic, convert it to HD Divx, open it up in VirtualDub, etc. You will want to adjust the beginning and end of the clip to exclude the junk typically recorded at the beginning and end by WinTV's recording software -- ie. seek to the first good frame and mark it as the IN point, seek to the end and rewind until you get to the first good frame you find and mark it as the OUT point. Then, save the clip and you'll have a nice MPG compatible file that opens and converts w/o any problems.)

Zenith HDTV converter box is da' bomb for what I need it for, and the combo of fast tuning, easy setup, multiple picture ratio settings means it's a total keeper for sure. Definitely my pick for those old analog TVs that you've got sitting around the house. Fact that it picks up channels well with a single Radio Shack bowtie antenna means it's also decent for my area as well - no need to worry about poor reception due to the convert box.

Is KCOP broadcasting in dtv yet? I got a new hd set and I can only get analog KCOP 13. I have a roof antenna and most channels come in fine if they are dtv.

Is anyone else having trouble receiving certain channels? I read on the web that on February 17, 2009 the dtv transition won't be so smooth. There are already a ton of complaints. Who can we email about channels that won't come in?

Conversion complaints mostly fall into fol. categories:

1. Ya mean I shudda ordered them $40 COUPONS after the last 10,000 times
I heard about 'em??? [And USE them before they EXPIRE!!!!!]
[Well at least this one issue has a Public Service Announcement....]

2. I got this heearr Converter Box dohickey, but I don't know HOOOWWWW....
Unhook existing antenna-to-tv connection, insert converter box per simple pictures in the
User Guide, plug-in, turn-on and follow on-screen instructions....chose any of four languages:
http://www.ezdigitaltv.com/support-files/dtv_converter_box_hookup.pdf
[To begin, only connect coax and figure out Yellow/Red/White connections later.]
[Most CECBs don't do STEREO via RF....and Y/R/W is also handy for VCR I/F.]

LLLOOOTTTSSS of people apparently can't/refuse to read the User Guide....
[And MOST User Guides are very poorly written/translated....and rarely describe
ALL of the on-screen displays and menus....]
Since there are only a few different CECB chips, check out User Guides for other
CECBs using the same chips at fol. websites:
http://www.ezdigitaltv.com/Converter_Box.html
http://www.freedtvshop.com/fdtv/converters.php
"CECB Features List" below lists which chips are used in which box....

Hardest part re operating is shuffling between TV R/C and CECB R/C,
since many CECB R/Cs don't control the TV...or only control the TV Power.
[And User Guide may not say the CECB mimics a particular SAT Receiver....]
I was recently surprised to find Harmony R/C database HAD the Tivax CECB
codes, but it was only accessed as a "Michley" via "having a problem" route....

3. I still need to watch a few Analog channels...I only see Digital channels....
I bought a box with "Analog Pass-Thru" but can't figure it out....
Although L.A. area will only have a couple Analog-only stations after February,
trying to figure how to actually DO an Analog Pass Thru is quite a fiasco....
CECBs without APT (Bypass) might need a 2-Way RF Splitter (degrades sensitivity
by about 4 dB)....or A/B Switch (gotta get up to switch or add'l $50 via R/C).

One good, alternative solution is to use separate antennas to old TV and CECB.]
[Tune old TV as usual to get the few remaining Analog channels and switch to
Video1 (Y/R/W) input for STEREO DTV from CECB.

Adding to the confusion, SOME Analog Pass-Thru (APT) CECBs don't "Pass Thru"
analog signals when they're unplugged from power....nor when first plugged in....
And SOME APT CECBs hide the (sometimes undocumented) APT controls....
Although this seems to be a problem today, after 17Feb fewer people will be affected....

4. I got rabbit-ear antennas that slide out of my little TV...how do I use them?
If built in and can't access connections, might need a new $10-15 VHF/UHF antenna.
Indoors, simple Rabbit Ears are typically used for VHF, but it also needs a loop
(or equivalent) for UHF reception. [Although a loop came with the old TV, it's long gone....]
And maybe also a 300-to-75 ohm transformer/balun whatchamacallit...
And perhaps some help from a "fifth grader" (or better) to hook it up....

5. I'm missing some of the major networks!!! Do I need a new antenna?
Ch 7/9/11/13 don't relocate their digital stations to VHF until 17Feb.
So YES, most of us now using UHF-only antennas may need an antenna upgrade.
However, some "UHF-only" antennas have moderate to low gain on Ch7-13, so if you
get a good Analog Ch7-13 signal today with that antenna, you're probably Good-To-Go.
FYI: CM-4228 8-Bay is much better than Rabbit Ears for Hi-VHF Band, with various
4-Bay antennas being worse than Rabbit Ears, but good enough with strong signals.

And YES, if you had a VHF-only (Ch2-13) antenna for Analog reception, you could
lose Ch2/4/5, cuz their digital counterpart will remain UHF....
This is especially a problem for apartments if they have VHF-only antenna systems....
PS: And although predicted coverage areas (presuming 30-ft outdoor antenna) are
supposed to remain the same, UHF doesn't "penetrate" indoors as well as VHF....

Nonetheless, it will take time for some stations to come up to full power....
including implementing ERP increase authorizations only recently granted....
so it make take until summer for late bloomers...

6. And of course ASPECT, Closed Caption and other issues....


So why don't DTV Transition PSA's address all of THESE issues???

Is KCOP broadcasting in dtv yet? I got a new hd set and I can only get analog KCOP 13. I have a roof antenna and most channels come in fine if they are dtv.

Is anyone else having trouble receiving certain channels? I read on the web that on February 17, 2009 the dtv transition won't be so smooth. There are already a ton of complaints. Who can we email about channels that won't come in?


Yes, 13 is broadcasting in DTV. They will be moving their DTV signal to VHF in February, which may or may not help you.

The people you should email are the vendors selling better antennas than you already have, but first you should check your wiring and antenna position, and perhaps look into a signal amplifier. Not meaning to be unsympathetic, but folks need to take the initiative to solve their own problems in this transition. For the overwhelming majority, it will go perfectly smoothly if they put a bit of effort into it.

Is KCOP broadcasting in dtv yet? I got a new hd set and I can only get analog KCOP 13. I have a roof antenna and most channels come in fine if they are dtv.

Is anyone else having trouble receiving certain channels? I read on the web that on February 17, 2009 the dtv transition won't be so smooth. There are already a ton of complaints. Who can we email about channels that won't come in?

KCOP is running "flea power" on DTV, and unless you live across the street from the transmitter, you may not get it at all. I have never been able to receive it since they reduced their power about 4 years ago. I hope this will improve dramatically when they move to their new frequency on ch. 13 in February.

Is KCOP broadcasting in dtv yet? I got a new hd set and I can only get analog KCOP 13. I have a roof antenna and most channels come in fine if they are dtv.

Is anyone else having trouble receiving certain channels? I read on the web that on February 17, 2009 the dtv transition won't be so smooth. There are already a ton of complaints. Who can we email about channels that won't come in?

My sister was having the same problem for a while. I told her to type in channel 66 on her remote and KCOP came in. KCOP is currently using RF66.

KTTV-DT (Ch65), KCOP-DT (Ch66) and KRCA-DT (Ch68) are ALSO at the top of the UHF Band,
where many UHF antennas are losing gain, narrower beamwidth requires more accurate
antenna pointing, coax/splitter loss is higher, VSWR detriments are larger, Tuner sensitivity
may be degraded and of course, propagation is more difficult....esp. indoors....

Near Riverside, KSGA-LP (Ch64) can desensitize reception on Ch65 &Ch55.
KLAU-LP (Ch66) (same as KCOP-DT) can also be a problem outside of "downtown"
Redlands presuming they moved to mountain location overlooking the Inland Empire:
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=21511
Click on Service Contour Map for each Ch66 entry.

Good News: By 17Feb, Ch52 and above have to MOVE to a lower channel.

PS: My son gets KCOP-DT 70-miles away in Murrieta, north of Temecula using CM-4228
with Preamp in the attic....but it was one of the hardest to get....

I watched the Chargers game in HD OTA yesterday. And had continual drop outs. I checked the signal strength and it was pegged. It would pixalize and drop out for a second and then come back. Do it about every 15 minutes or so...whats up with that??

I watched the Chargers game in HD OTA yesterday. And had continual drop outs. I checked the signal strength and it was pegged. It would pixalize and drop out for a second and then come back. Do it about every 15 minutes or so...whats up with that??

It might be due to noise on the power line. When my wife runs the paper shredder, I lose my picture on all the channels. I use a surge protector but it doesn't seem to help.

It might be due to noise on the power line. When my wife runs the paper shredder, I lose my picture on all the channels. I use a surge protector but it doesn't seem to help.

Perhaps. But the more usual cause is fluctuations in signal strength. Propagation is very weather-dependent. This time of year especially, I see this often on all but the stongest stations.

Does anyone know the story about OTA channel 57-5? It appears to be a TV-cam atop a mountain. The limited transmitted info lists "Snow CA". I wonder what it'll be called then the snow melts. Last week the same webcam, oops, I mean TV-cam was also broadcasting on 44-5 and 44-7 but those are now gone.

Does anyone know the story about OTA channel 57-5? It appears to be a TV-cam atop a mountain. The limited transmitted info lists "Snow CA". I wonder what it'll be called then the snow melts. Last week the same webcam, oops, I mean TV-cam was also broadcasting on 44-5 and 44-7 but those are now gone.


Channel 57 appears to be some sort of relay transmitter. I find that there are five subchannels: 57.1, 57.2, 57.4, 57.5 and 57.8. Each ot these shows a different call sign or identifier as follows:

57.1 KJLA
57.2 LATVNET
57.4 CAVTV
57.5 Snow CA
57.8 KVMD

KVMD also appears on 44.2. All subchannels of channel 57 are standard definition (480i). This channel is very strong, i.e., full scale, here in the NW SFV, Porter Ranch area. I wish that all of the Mt. Wilson stations came in half as well! Falcon_77's Excel spreadsheet station listing shows the location of ch. 57 as "Ventua". If you do not already have a copy, you can download it using the link shown in his posts here.

Is me or is KABC7 weaker these days in terms of signal strengths? Is anyone else noticing this?

Falcon_77's Excel spreadsheet station listing shows the location of ch. 57 as "Ventua". If you do not already have a copy, you can download it using the link shown in his posts here.

Ventura is the City of License (COL), which is supposed to mean that it is completely covered by a "city-grade" signal. As long as a signal adequately covers the COL, the tower can be located elsewhere.

However, I'm not sure how KJLA got away with their move to Mt. Wilson, since some in Ventura can't get the signal at all (e.g. much of the Ojai Fwy. area). The FCC uses contours, which ignore terrain after a short distance. I'm sure that has a lot to do with it.

To me, the COL system seems to be archaic much of the time. KAZA, also on Mt. Wilson, has Avalon (Catalina) as its COL.

In the DTV world, co-location is much more important and we are lucky to have strong co-location thanks to Mt. Wilson. It would be a mess if each of the local broadcasters were transmitting from their Cities of License.

As for KABC/53, it seems to be as weak as usual. KABC was granted 25kW (vs. 13.2) for their PT facility on 7, however. That should be easier to receive, but probably not on most UHF only antennas. My 4221 doesn't have a chance, but the 4228 should be ok. Perhaps UHF only antennas will be ok in stronger signal areas, but time will tell. If only I could get 7, 9, 11 & 13 to let us know when they are doing overnight testing of their VHF PT facilities...

As for KABC/53, it seems to be as weak as usual. KABC was granted 25kW (vs. 13.2) for their PT facility on 7, however. That should be easier to receive, but probably not on most UHF only antennas. My 4221 doesn't have a chance, but the 4228 should be ok. Perhaps UHF only antennas will be ok in stronger signal areas, but time will tell. If only I could get 7, 9, 11 & 13 to let us know when they are doing overnight testing of their VHF PT facilities...I wonder what's going with KABC7's digitial. Make it weaker and it is harder for me to watch their channel. Analog looks fine, but who wants that? HD FTW. ;)

Hmm interesting, it comes in really well for me here in West LA/ Santa Monica area. Between 95 and 97 signal strength. Digital Channels of 4 and 13 are the toughest for me to trap.

Rudy

I'm having reception issues in Marina del Rey. I live in a multi-dwelling, on the first of three floors, with a few concrete walls between myself and Mt. Wilson. I'm not in an area where I can use any sort of outdoor antenna.
I have my TV near the (only) west-facing windows of my flat, where I can pick up KNBC-DT reliably, but no other digital channels to speak of.
I tested an amplified "HD" antenna from GE, but it performed worse than passive rabbit ears. I've ordered a Terk HDTVa, so we'll see how that works.
My other choice here for television is to subscribe through the building management to DirecTV through a third-party provider that does not provide HD. The building is located at the end of one of the jetties here and Time Warner hasn't wired it.
FCC rules mean nothing in a situation like this.
Aside from collecting indoor antennas and putting the Samsung on a utility cart and wheeling it about the living room for hot spots, what else can I do to improse reception?

I would suggest trying a more directional antenna instead of rabbit ears, such as a CM4220 or CM4221. The CM4228 would do better on VHF, but it's probably too large for indoor use, unless you have access to an attic. Avoid amplified antennas, if your signals are strong as they appear to be in most of Marina del Rey (try TV Fool.com to check).

How do analog 7-13 look vs. UHF 14-69? Taming multi-path is more difficult with VHF, but the signals don't tend to reflect as well (which can be good or bad depending on the situation). 4 stations will return to the 7-13 range, but the remainder will stay on UHF.

Being in a similarly situated apartment in Orange County, I can tell you that you may be stuck with the DirectTV. Neither the Silver Sensor nor the Radio Shack "flying saucer" were much help to me, despite having a clean (other than numerous walls and trees) shot at Mt. Wilson. Luckily my apartments provide a rooftop antenna, with which I can reliably get everything except KFLA-LD, so my antenna experiments were merely a pastime and not a necessity. I'm sorry you aren't so fortunate.

My last address had such a contract with a third party, and were able to provide all the local channels (including UHF) via rooftop antenna on the same coax as the DirectTV, and they were available whether you subscribed to the service or not. You might wish to try hooking the DirectTV line direct to the TV (see what I did there?) and see what happens. Knowing how these installations tend to work, you may find a need to invest in some signal pads - I have mine attenuated 14 dB to avoid overloading my LG 3410A.

If that plan doesn't work, I'd suggest raising a stink with the apartment management. Totally depriving your residents of local HD reception is not good karma or good business.

Picks up the "Snow" Channel and the other ones also: 57.1, %7.2, etc. Am wondering where it is picking up the picture from.

Santa Paula: Is there any analog/digital tv reception there? Just curious. Have seen "big bird" antenna further down the highway 126. Also for Ojai.

KNBC Coverage Comparison (Analog 4 vs. DTV 36)

In anticipation of "short-falls" in DTV coverage, I thought it would be useful to graphically display areas which may lose TV service. I am not a proponent of using Low-VHF for DTV (far from it), but it is important to realize that many areas which were able to receive TV service with a Low-VHF antenna no longer have a realistic chance to receive UHF DTV stations.

Rather than going back to Low-VHF, however, such stations should consider DTS and/or translators, though I recognize there are a very limited number of channels available to translators.

Any comments on the comparison plot would be appreciated. I have used -85dBm as the cut-off for both DTV and analog. I acknowledge that DTV needs about 13dB less power for "replication," but I have found that analog can be viewed at strengths far below specs. The attached chart attempts to show this difference.

Yellow areas should be able to receive analog Low-VHF 4, in watchable condition (with a decent outdoor antenna), but which will probably not be able to receive UHF 36.

Picks up the "Snow" Channel and the other ones also

Sigh ... and they promised us we wouldn't get any snow on the digital channels ...

KNBC Coverage Comparison (Analog 4 vs. DTV 36)

In anticipation of "short-falls" in DTV coverage, I thought it would be useful to graphically display areas which may lose TV service. I am not a proponent of using Low-VHF for DTV (far from it), but it is important to realize that many areas which were able to receive TV service with a Low-VHF antenna no longer have a realistic chance to receive UHF DTV stations.

Rather than going back to Low-VHF, however, such stations should consider DTS and/or translators, though I recognize there are a very limited number of channels available to translators.

Any comments on the comparison plot would be appreciated. I have used -85dBm as the cut-off for both DTV and analog. I acknowledge that DTV needs about 13dB less power for "replication," but I have found that analog can be viewed at strengths far below specs. The attached chart attempts to show this difference.

Yellow areas should be able to receive analog Low-VHF 4, in watchable condition (with a decent outdoor antenna), but which will probably not be able to receive UHF 36.

According to TVFOOL, KNBC4 will be remaining on UHF36 after the digital transition so if you can receive KNBC4 today there should be no problem next month. This is also true for KTLA, KPXN, KOCE, KDOC, and KLCS. The high-VHF stations will be going back to their original frequencies.

Picks up the "Snow" Channel and the other ones also: 57.1, %7.2, etc. Am wondering where it is picking up the picture from.

That "snow channel", Snow CA on 57.5, is indeed intriguing. I see that they re-aim the camera from time to time, and the view today is different from that seen yesterday. At first I wondered if they might just be showing still photographs, but today you can clearly see the wind blowing the branches on that pine tree. Perhaps they are using this as a sort of "place holder" until they can put some programming in 57.5. In any case, it contains about as much intelligence as many of the other channels on TV!

According to TVFOOL, KNBC4 will be remaining on UHF36 after the digital transition so if you can receive KNBC4 today there should be no problem next month. This is also true for KTLA, KPXN, KOCE, KDOC, and KLCS. The high-VHF stations will be going back to their original frequencies.

Yes, it is. I am not concerned for current viewers of KNBC-DT as that is not moving, but those still watching analog 4. There are a lot of yellow areas on that map, denoting that DTV signals are unlikely to be received.

KNBC Coverage Comparison (Analog 4 vs. DTV 36)

In anticipation of "short-falls" in DTV coverage, I thought it would be useful to graphically display areas which may lose TV service. I am not a proponent of using Low-VHF for DTV (far from it), but it is important to realize that many areas which were able to receive TV service with a Low-VHF antenna no longer have a realistic chance to receive UHF DTV stations.

Rather than going back to Low-VHF, however, such stations should consider DTS and/or translators, though I recognize there are a very limited number of channels available to translators.

Any comments on the comparison plot would be appreciated. I have used -85dBm as the cut-off for both DTV and analog. I acknowledge that DTV needs about 13dB less power for "replication," but I have found that analog can be viewed at strengths far below specs. The attached chart attempts to show this difference.

Yellow areas should be able to receive analog Low-VHF 4, in watchable condition (with a decent outdoor antenna), but which will probably not be able to receive UHF 36.
You can't simply assume that DTV and NTSC sensitivity levels are the same.
In (NIM) specs I have at hand, "typical" NTSC sensitivity for atwo units were
-73 dBm (WOW!!!) and the other two were -64 dBm. Worst case (Max) specs
were -65 dBm and -57 dBm. These were from specs dated 2002 thru 2004,
so they're probably newer than many analog only TVs out there.

NTSC sensitivity spec is for a standardized video signal with 20 dB S/N....
which you wouldn't want to watch for more than a few minutes before
calling your local cable provider. So adjust for say 40 dB S/N:
http://www.northcountryradio.com/Articles/range.htm

CECB Converter Box spec required all boxes to meet -83 dBm for DTV,
which is several dB better than what FCC/OET measured for
HD-STBs & DTVs available in 2005-2006.

The (so-called) 12-13 dB sensitivity improvement of DTV is only PARTIALLY
due to improved modulation & CODING. The other 7 dB is due to NTSC
always using a PEAK reading measurement and DTV always using AVERAGE.
In the FCC regs for calculating Class B contours for NTSC and DTV, they use
35 dB SNR for NTSC vice 15 dB SNR for DTV (see discussion re Tables 1 & 2):
http://www.pi-usa.com/pdf/dtvb.pdf
This difference can not be ignored....

The above sensitivity specs are for signals at the input of the tuner....
which must be adjusted for antenna gain, balun/cable loss, etc. and if
using a good Preamp (which should be assumed for "fringe" reception).

The gain differences between fringe UHF antennas and whatever a user
is willing to put up to improve Hi-VHF reception also can not be ignored.

Three cases apply: (1) indoor (typ. Rabbit Ears), (2) attic and (3) mast mounted.
VHF gain for indoors is -6 to 0 dBd or less whereas medium to large Hi-VHF
antennas are 6-10 dBd. UHF gain for indoors is probably 1-6 dBd and REAL UHF
antennas are anywhere from 8 to 15 dBd (I'm eyeballing from hdtvprimer).

So UHF has a gain advantage of 6-12 dB indoors (less indoor loss difference).
And outdoors, most people don't want to put up a monster rotator rig, so I
would assume a UHF antenna gain advantage of say 5+ dB.

And of course, there are wide variations in indoor loss, antenna placement
and antenna gain characteristics....in general, generalities are generously gross....

=====================================
www.tvfool.com recently posted torrent downloadable *.kmz files for Post-Feb
to display receive signal levels in GoogleEarth for your local neighborhood.
So you can compare today's KNBC analog signal levels to digital levels for
your actual location. Note Andy is now displaying NM (Noise Margin) vice signal level.

There is also a very low rez version on-line, but not yet Post-Feb:
http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=80
Following attachments compare KNBC-TV to KNBC-DT NOW, but does not
include recently approved upgrades (if any ) for stations in L.A. area.

Appreciate the comparison of analog and digital KNBC 4. Have picked it up analog and we'll see for digital. This is what currently is being received:

Santa Barbara: 3.1, 3.2 KEYT; 38.1,38.2 Univision
Ventura: 57.1,2,3, etc: KVMD, KXLA, Snow Channel, etc.
Los Angeles: hits (no picture/sound): 43 CBS, 36 KNBC.

So, at some point KNBC is a possibility. Looking at the charts the Ventura Avenue area is identified as a hole (no TV) on either chart analog and digital. Yet, got a hit using a small little bowtie antenna and some plus 10db amplification. May combine multiple bowties in a 360 degree circle and see how that performs.

Am courious about other area(s) that may duplicate this area: 70 plus miles out, and a 500 foot hill yet picks up the signal. So, against all odds and predictions still gets to watch tv through technology and true grit.

So wait... I live in Koreatown on the bottom floor of large two-story dwelling, and I currently have a cheap generic rabbit ears + hoop antenna that only picks up one or two dtv stations reliably. No hills around, but lots of old big buildings.

I understand that if I buy a UHF antenna (such as the db2), I'd probably boost my reception significantly, but I'm confused as to what exactly is going to happen post-February. Reading through this thread, it seems all the dtv broadcasts are switching over to VHF. Or is that incorrect? I guess I'm wondering whether I should go ahead and buy that UHF antenna or if I should pick up something else for post-February. If I need to buy a VHF antenna, does anyone have any recommendations? If my questions are hopelessly naive, can someone please explain why or point me to a site with the answers? Thanks so much.

Just 7/9/11/13 are moving back to VHF. Everything else will remain on UHF.

- Trip

Just 7/9/11/13 are moving back to VHF. Everything else will remain on UHF.

- Trip

Thanks, but does that mean no ABC/KCAL9/FOX/My13? Would I need a VHF/UHF combo antenna to pick these up? If so, are there any you would recommend for my situation?

Thanks so much.

I'm not familiar with the LA-area geography and where you are, so I'll leave the antenna recommendation to someone else, but you can try a UHF-only antenna if you're close enough as those are usually acceptable for the upper VHF (7-13) channels.

- Trip

I'm not familiar with the LA-area geography and where you are, so I'll leave the antenna recommendation to someone else, but you can try a UHF-only antenna if you're close enough as those are usually acceptable for the upper VHF (7-13) channels.

- Trip

Thanks for that info! I was planning on buying a VHF/UHF combo before Feb, but maybe I won't have to. I currently have the UHF Zenith Silver Sensor and I'm approximately 16 miles from the transmitters.

I also have the Silver Sensor. I've gotten an upper-VHF station at 5-8 miles while moving in a car with it. When standing still (digital TV doesn't handle the Doppler effect very well) it should perform over a distance greater than that.

- Trip

Thanks, but does that mean no ABC/KCAL9/FOX/My13? Would I need a VHF/UHF combo antenna to pick these up? If so, are there any you would recommend for my situation?


What do the analog versions look like? That will give you the best clues at this point, though it's an imperfect solution.

We won't have that luxury for most analog channels locally by mid-next month, but at least we won't have to make guesses on what will work and what won't.

Terk has a Silver Sensor clone, with rabbit ears, but unfortunately there are few choices for indoor VHF antennas but rabbit ears and they are poor performers. If you have access to the attic, real upper VHF antennas, such as the YA-1713 will be much better.

Following attachments compare KNBC-TV to KNBC-DT NOW, but does not
include recently approved upgrades (if any ) for stations in L.A. area.

I understand your comments, but I am trying to account for why it seems to be working on the map. If the purple areas of the DTV TV Fool plots are removed, the difference looks very similar to the map I posted.

Purple area DTV reception is exceedingly difficult, but purple analog reception is quite possible.

I originally dropped the analog power by 13dB to compensate, but that didn't work. The results were too weak as compared to TV Fool and my experience.

As for the analog vs. DTV coverage maps, we need to set some sort of baseline for the minimum standard that people consider to be "watchable." Attached are some pics with analog KCBS/2, with my Y5-2-6 antenna, without a pre-amp, at 51 miles (Ladera Ranch, CA). Only at 30dB attenuation would I consider the picture to be un-watchable.

I will also re-do my tests of KVCR when I get some time. In the past, I have been able to receive a watchable analog signal (24), while only occasionally locking DT-26. The relative powers are 1320 analog vs. 475 DTV.

I agree that 1:1 DTV to Analog power is not necessary, but it seems that the 13dB difference I've long held may need some adjusting.

Out in the fringe, that -30 dB signal still counts as watchable. I know people getting by with signals that look like that.

My real world experience with low-VHF makes me think that Falcon's map is pretty close, even if it's not perfect. He did one for WTVR-TV/DT in Richmond and I agree very much with the way that one turned out.

- Trip

All of those pictures shown would be great to watch for Los Angeles stations out here on the fringe. Thanks for the pics. Fuzzy pictures are what people on the fringe are used to.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/09/business/09digital.html?_r=1


"On Thursday President-elect Barack Obama’s transition team urged Congress to extend the Feb. 17 cutoff date for analog broadcasting, injecting new uncertainty into a switch that has confused customers and cost the government more than $1.3 billion in subsidies."

I decided to re-do the attenuator tests, this time as respects DTV. I used my On-Air GT and my Samsung TV for these tests. I discovered that the difference in sensitivity between the USB tuner and the TV is very significant (perhaps 6dB). The results on the far right columns make me wonder if I still need the pre-amp, but the signals at the main TV downstairs are a bit weaker, due to the longer cabling run.

In any event, with the On-Air GT, none of the -30dB signals would lock and very few would solidly lock at -20dB. Yellow cells indicate dropouts, etc. and do not make for an acceptable viewing experience.

The two weakest stations here are not hard to spot. KCOP and KABC, as usual.

Edit: Added KCET analog attenuated screen caps from the On-Air GT for comparative purposes (from the earlier analog tests). KCET was among the strongest UHF analog stations for each round.

HELP!! I tried to watch CSI on CBS last night and the OTA kept breaking up. I turned on the signal strength meter and it was pegged all the way high. Then would drop to nothing momentarily and then go back to full strength again. Whats the deal? Why it do that??

HELP!! I tried to watch CSI on CBS last night and the OTA kept breaking up. I turned on the signal strength meter and it was pegged all the way high. Then would drop to nothing momentarily and then go back to full strength again. Whats the deal? Why it do that??
Your location would help those that have guesses. Airplanes? Wind related? /Dan

No wind maybe airplanes. I live in Costa Mesa. ca 92626

Were any other channels breaking up? If not, something must have been interfering with 60, unless the problem was at the source, but that is unlikely if your signal meter was showing drop-outs. Can anyone verify if the feed was ok last night?

Let us know if the problem returns tonight. Check the analog stations around 60, such as 58 and 62, to see if there is any noise. Also check DTV KSCI/61 and KCET/59.

I had the same problem a couple weeks ago with the chargers play off game I can't rmember what channel that was on...4 maybe.

HELP!! I tried to watch CSI on CBS last night and the OTA kept breaking up. I turned on the signal strength meter and it was pegged all the way high. Then would drop to nothing momentarily and then go back to full strength again. Whats the deal? Why it do that??

The signal strength meter only shows the bit error free percentage, not the SNR. In my case I discovered one source of my picture breaking up. Everytime the gardener uses their lawnmower or leaf blower, my picture goes crazy. Obviously their two cycle engines use just plain copper ignition wires. It radiates all over the neighborhood. That's why cars use resistive wires in their ignition system, it eliminates the electrical interference.

HELP!! I tried to watch CSI on CBS last night and the OTA kept breaking up. I turned on the signal strength meter and it was pegged all the way high. Then would drop to nothing momentarily and then go back to full strength again. Whats the deal? Why it do that??

Must have been something local to your area. I'm 63 miles from the towers in Wildomar (near Temecula) & CSI came in fine last night

Also think it could be wind and trees over the long distance. Santa Ana winds have been blowing.

Also think it could be wind and trees over the long distance. Santa Ana winds have been blowing.

Exactly! That has always been my experience. Also, if there are any metal objects anywhere in the neighborhood that can reflect sighals, they can reflect a part of the signal which can then interfere with the main signal, much as an airplane does.

Just 7/9/11/13 are moving back to VHF. Everything else will remain on UHF.

- Trip

What!

I though ALL DTV was going to be UHF and the industry has been telling to get UHF Antennas. I have tried both the Channel Master CM 4228 8-Bay Bowtie UHF Antenna and the Winegard HD 9095P UHF Yagi Style HDTV Antenna on a Antenna Rotator. In an effort to pull in the elusive 7,9,11, & 13. Still can not pull them in. Which are all transmitting at low power. I have no problem pulling in 2,4,28. I’m about 30 miles from Mt Wilson. I think part of my problem is we are 2 miles below the base of the mountains.

Now your telling me that some of the DTV channels are going to be broadcasting on VHF?


This thing is nine feet long!!
http://www.stargateunofficial.com/Gallery/Pic/large_yag.jpg

What!

I though ALL DTV was going to be UHF and the industry has been telling to get UHF Antennas. I have tried both the Channel Master CM 4228 8-Bay Bowtie UHF Antenna and the Winegard HD 9095P UHF Yagi Style HDTV Antenna on a Antenna Rotator. In an effort to pull in the elusive 7,9,11, & 13. Still can not pull them in. Which are all transmitting at low power. I have no problem pulling in 2,4,28. I’m about 30 miles from Mt Wilson. I think part of my problem is we are 2 miles below the base of the mountains.

Now your telling me that some of the DTV channels are going to be broadcasting on VHF?


This thing is nine feet long!!

Try picking up 7, 9, 11 and 13 in analog on your present antenna. If they look OK, you're probably fine for the transition.

Sounds like you're not getting the higher numbered UHF channels on your setup. Are there any splitters in there? Older ones don't pass high UHF very well.

Try picking up 7, 9, 11 and 13 in analog on your present antenna. If they look OK, you're probably fine for the transition.

Sounds like you're not getting the higher numbered UHF channels on your setup. Are there any splitters in there? Older ones don't pass high UHF very well.

No spliter, no apms, nothing. just one cable from the Antenna directly in to a Samsung DTBH260F HDTV Terrestrial Receiver. It, the Samsung HDTV box, does not do analog. This is a new instalation. On the main house, the old instalation, is a VHF & UHF combo antenna. I have not watched analog TV on that antenna for over 5 years. Problem here, in the house, is the TV is a gen 1 Mitisu with a built-in HDTV recever. Not very good in locking in a signal. So I created the new install in the theater with a super big yag antenna and the new Samsung HDTV receiver.

The new install was all done in the UHF flavor to get ready for DTV. Now it sounds like a pure UHF antenna is not realy an antenna for DTV. I dropen 20 bucks on the first Rat shack yag, then $60 on the eight bay bowtie antenna, then $85 on the large yag and $90 on the rotator. This is get expensive!!!

Should have just gone with digital cable.

Now antenna manufactures are pushing these:

http://pimages.solidsignal.com/HD7697P_zoom.jpg

a hybrid antenna.

would be nice if they sold the rear half, the VHF part, that could be added to the huge YAG i have now.

The Winegard YA-1713 is what you're looking for.

Now antenna manufactures are pushing these:

http://pimages.solidsignal.com/HD7697P_zoom.jpg

a hybrid antenna.

would be nice if they sold the rear half, the VHF part, that could be added to the huge YAG i have now.

Yep;

And that's the exact model I have on the roof-top I installed about 6 months ago in preparation for the DTV transition. Works very well with strong signals on all channels here in South L.A. Funny thing is I really haven't been able to test the VHF-hi portion on the antenna beyond one low power DTV station on channel 8 (KFLA) until the transition.

But since I'm getting very good analog signals on channels 7-13 plus KFLA-LD comes in fine as well (crappy and poor quality programming though) I guess it's rather obvious there will be no problems when KABC, KCAL, KTTV, and KCOP resume broadcasting digitally on their former analog frequencies after 2/17. :)

Hi Everyone,

I'm new to this forum, so I hope my question is appropriate for this thread.

Are there any stores in the Los Angeles or South Bay area that sell high-end indoor antennas(i.e., Winegard, AntennaDirect, ChannelMaster)?

Never imagined I would have such a hard time finding a quality antenna. The only ones I can find are Phillips & RCA and the reviews for those aren't that good.

Currently, I have an RCA ANT-103 TV Antenna that I used on my old analog TV and considering that the rabbit ears are broken off at the mid-way point it works pretty well.

But I'm having the same problems I had with the analog TV, the "least littlest thing" interferes with the reception. I am constantly moving it around to get reception.

This whole digital transition thing is STRESSING ME OUT!!!

First, I had to research LCD TV's. The manufactures don't give you enough information to make an informative decision and the sales people don't know much at all.

Now, I have to research transmitter locations & antennas.

indoor/outdoor, directional/omni-directional, gain, beamwidth, bandwidth, front-to-back ratios, amp/pre-amps, impedance, UHF/VHF, decibles, range, ETC, ETC, ETC.

I miss the days of analog!!!! Anyway, sorry to go off on a tangent. Guess I needed to vent.

Thanks in advance for any help anyone can offer.

P.S. I'm willing to go to Orange County!!:)

The Winegard YA-1713 is what you're looking for.


Exactly! I have one of these on order now to add to my UHF setup. I should have it in a week or so.

Hi Everyone,

I'm new to this forum, so I hope my question is appropriate for this thread.

Are there any stores in the Los Angeles or South Bay area that sell high-end indoor antennas(i.e., Winegard, AntennaDirect, ChannelMaster)? ...




Try ElectroniC City in Burbank, on Burbank Blvd. They carry Weingard, have a good supply in stock, and can order anything they don't have. I don't know if they carry other brands, but they are an outstanding dealer for all sorts of electronic supplies. You might also check Fry's, but I don't know how much they carry, and I have never shopped for antennas there.

Forget about an indoor antenna for DTV, unless you live in a very favored location. DTV can be a challenge sometimes even for a good high gain roof installation. To me the idea of an indoor antenna for DTV sounds somewhat like a joke.

What!

I though ALL DTV was going to be UHF and the industry has been telling to get UHF Antennas. I have tried both the Channel Master CM 4228 8-Bay Bowtie UHF Antenna and the Winegard HD 9095P UHF Yagi Style HDTV Antenna on a Antenna Rotator. In an effort to pull in the elusive 7,9,11, & 13. Still can not pull them in. Which are all transmitting at low power. I have no problem pulling in 2,4,28. I’m about 30 miles from Mt Wilson. I think part of my problem is we are 2 miles below the base of the mountains.

Now your telling me that some of the DTV channels are going to be broadcasting on VHF?


This thing is nine feet long!!


The original plan was for all stations to remain on UHF, but the plan was changed later. Like you, I need to add a high band VHF antenna (ch. 7-13 only).

It is odd that you can get 2, 4 and 28 and yet can't get 7 and 9 which ave very strong here, especially 9. Where are you located, if I may ask? Even more surprising is that you can get the rather weak 28. 11 is also weak here and 13 impossible. For a long time I didn't know whether 13 even had a digital transmitter. Anyway, all of that will change next month with the big move.

Now antenna manufactures are pushing these:...

http://pimages.solidsignal.com/HD7697P_zoom.jpg

Just a note of clarity:

Actually that is just a generic image frequently used for the entire Wingard HD769 series of antennas.

The exact picture of the Wingard HD7697P is here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=130448&stc=1&d=1232485299

The Winegard YA-1713 is what you're looking for.

Can I stack this, YA-1713, on top of the Super Yag and then use a splitter backwards to combine the two antenna signals?

The original plan was for all stations to remain on UHF, but the plan was changed later. Like you, I need to add a high band VHF antenna (ch. 7-13 only).

It is odd that you can get 2, 4 and 28 and yet can't get 7 and 9 which ave very strong here, especially 9. Where are you located, if I may ask? Even more surprising is that you can get the rather weak 28. 11 is also weak here and 13 impossible. For a long time I didn't know whether 13 even had a digital transmitter. Anyway, all of that will change next month with the big move.

I'm 30 miles east of mt Wilson and 2 miles below the base of the mountains.

I'm 30 miles east of mt Wilson and 2 miles below the base of the mountains.

I would like to check out your TV Fool (dot) com plot, if you can post it here.

I wish the LA stations would have all remained on UHF, like they are doing in Salt Lake City. At least we don't have to worry about Low-VHF, which is what requires the widest antennas.

I have a YA1713 in my attic, but you may be able to get by with something smaller, such as a Y5-7-13:

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=Y5-7-13

As for splitters, use a UVSJ to combine the antennas and not a splitter:

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=UVSJ

Some UHF antennas do ok for VHF, but more so on the "bowties" than Yagi's and more towards 13 vs. 7. What do analog 7-13 look like now?

I e-mailed Hans Rabong at Winegards Tech Service. He also suggested the stack the YA-1713 antenna with the HD9095P. There is alread a combiner box on the HD9095P. So all I need to do is connect the cable from the YA-1713 to the HD9095P. and i'm all done.

Then I will have the best of both worlds, a super YAG for UHF and a huge VHF antenna tuned for the new upper end VHF DTV channels 7-13.

My assumptipn is that this is why ABC is brodcasting DTV on channel 53 at such a low power rating.

Does this mead that after 2/17/2009, ABC will be broadcasting DTV at a much higher power level then thery are on 53? My wife would love to start getting ABC in HDTV.

Thanks everyone for get this cleared up.

1. I would like to check out your TV Fool (dot) com plot, if you can post it here.

2. What do analog 7-13 look like now?

For number 1 I'm not sure what you need?

For number 2 the Samsung digital receiver does not do analog. But years ago, when I used a previous antnena and an anlog TV I would get 7 great and 13 just OK (meaning some light snow).

Does this mead that after 2/17/2009, ABC will be broadcasting DTV at a much higher power level then thery are on 53? My wife would love to start getting ABC in HDTV.

Thanks everyone for get this cleared up.

Power levels on VHF vs. UHF aren't comparable. UHF requires MUCH more juice to go the same distance.

KABC is running 182kW on 53 and will be running 25kW on 7. The channel 7 digital broadcast should be much stronger and better able to bend around terrain, but will of course require an antenna capable of VHF reception.

Power levels on VHF vs. UHF aren't comparable. UHF requires MUCH more juice to go the same distance.

I understand UHF vs VHF. But ABC is broadcasting at such a low power level on UHF 53 that we can not get the channel 30 miles away. Others like CBS on UHF 60 comming in great.

I was hoping that after 2/17 the DTV signal will be trnasmitted at a power level that we will be able to receive just like we were able to get the old analog ABC broadcast.

I think coyoteaz cleared it up. Thanks

I understand UHF vs VHF. But ABC is broadcasting at such a low power level on UHF 53 that we can not get the channel 30 miles away. Others like CBS on UHF 60 comming in great.

I was hoping that after 2/17 the DTV signal will be trnasmitted at a power level that we will be able to receive just like we were able to get the old analog ABC broadcast. KABC7 drives me nuts too with its low signal strength on digital. I get like 20%-50% now. I used to get 60%-70%! :( All other stations are high (except KCLS 58). Analog channels are fine!

For number 1 I'm not sure what you need?

Check out this site:

http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29

I have long suspected that KCOP and KABC are not broadcasting at their full, licensed DTV powers on UHF 66 and 53, but since they are going back to VHF, I can't see that changing now.

If you once received good analog signals on 7, then it should work well for you after the transition (whenever it is...)

I'm 30 miles east of mt Wilson and 2 miles below the base of the mountains.

OK very good - I am about 30 miles west of Mt Wilson! It is interesting to see how different our results are.

It is puzzling how many people are complaining about KABC 7 (53) being weak. It is very strong here, running about 80 - 100 in signal strength. Apparently it has a very irregular radiation pattern. I wish stations like KCET and KTTV were as strong. KCET is particularly frustrating with its roller coaster signal strenth, often going from 75 down to 15 and back again, often within a minute or two.

It is puzzling how many people are complaining about KABC 7 (53) being weak. It is very strong here, running about 80 - 100 in signal strength. Apparently it has a very irregular radiation pattern. I wish stations like KCET and KTTV were as strong. KCET is particularly frustrating with its roller coaster signal strenth, often going from 75 down to 15 and back again, often within a minute or two.

+1. No problems with ABC here in West LA. My little Silver Sensor placed outside on the patio pulls it in at high 90s.

Rudy

Speaking of KABC, their booster application for Oat Mountain (Santa Clarita area) was granted on 1/14. It is under the call sign KABC1.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=669904

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=178446

The description reads like an analog booster which at this stage of the game doesn't make sense, even if the transition is delayed. KABC has had decades to apply for an analog booster. Perhaps this will be a DTV booster (and not a DTS), but they have to "disguise" it as an analog booster for now?

KSFV-CA/6 has filed a displacement application to F/C to DTV on channel 6. This would make it LA's first Low-VHF DTV station (not that I expect many to put up antennas just for it).

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=720414

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101286854&formid=401&fac_num=49704

The displacement wording doesn't make sense as I doubt that moving to digital is going to solve their problems and 5 won't be there post-transition.

Good luck with 0.3kW on 6, though that is the maximum ERP for a VHF DTV Low-Power station.

KSFV-CA/6 has filed a displacement application to F/C to DTV on channel 6. This would make it LA's first Low-VHF DTV station (not that I expect many to put up antennas just for it).

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=720414

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101286854&formid=401&fac_num=49704

The displacement wording doesn't make sense as I doubt that moving to digital is going to solve their problems and 5 won't be there post-transition.

Good luck with 0.3kW on 6, though that is the maximum ERP for a VHF DTV Low-Power station.

The weird thing about this is that KSFV has been operating essentially as a radio station (with slides) for some time now: "Guadalupe Radio 87.7 FM". Seems like they'd want to stay analog as long as they possibly can. I wonder if they're watching the subchannel-fests on 18, 44 and 57 and thinking of emulating them?

BTW, anyone besides me notice that 44 is now running 7 program streams?

KSFV-CA/6 has filed a displacement application to F/C to DTV on channel 6. This would make it LA's first Low-VHF DTV station (not that I expect many to put up antennas just for it).

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=720414

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101286854&formid=401&fac_num=49704

The displacement wording doesn't make sense as I doubt that moving to digital is going to solve their problems and 5 won't be there post-transition.

Good luck with 0.3kW on 6, though that is the maximum ERP for a VHF DTV Low-Power station.

You're right about that :rolleyes:;

I'm not about to hoist a new tri-band antenna up on the roof at this point or make any other accomodations for receiving the VHF-lo band for only one LP DTV station.

BTW, why do they call it a "Displacement Application?"

Never mind;

I think I found out why it’s referred to as a “Displacement application.” According to the Wikipedia, KSFV-LP 6 originally broadcast on UHF channel 26, but vacated that position to make room for KVCR San Bernardino’s DTV signal. So I assume their request to go digital is still considered part and parcel of their overall transfer of broadcasting operations from channel 26 to 6…

This is the displacement wording they used:

The licensed facility of KSFV on channel 6 in Los Angeles is being displaced by interference from KTLA on channel 5 in Los Angeles, California and from XETV on channel 6 in Tijuana, Mexico.

An FM station disguised as a TV station wouldn't seem to gain much by going digital. Perhaps once I saw actual programming, other than the slide-show, but I can't be certain. Of course, the signal quality of the slide show isn't that great (attached is what it typically looks like from my condo with a Low-VHF antenna and a pre-amp).

Ok;

I can’t really be a fair judge of their (KSFV's) signal quality here since as I indicated earlier my roof-top antenna, a Winegard HD7697P, is only for VHF-hi and UHF. But for what it’s worth anyhow since both KTLA and KNBC still come in surprising well considering my antenna is not designed for them either. KSFV’s reception at my location in south L.A. about 18-20 mi. SW of Mt. Wilson, is extremely poor and barely viewable. Lots of snow for sure…

So I agree, I don’t see how converting to digital is going to help their case if they remain at such a low power level.

So I agree, I don’t see how converting to digital is going to help their case if they remain at such a low power level.

More about KSFV from the December 9 CGC Communicator:

KSFV-LP, CH-6 on Mt. Harvard (adjacent to Mt. Wilson and serving Los Angeles), has been cited by the FCC for running almost eight-times the allowable aural transmitter power.

(Letter to the editor): "Yeah, and now [KSFV is] asking the FCC to allow them to [run excessive power] legally. Now THAT'S chutspah! Here is KSFV's request: http://earthsignals.com/add_CGC/KSFV_LP_Waiver_App.pdf "

http://www.bext.com/_CGC/2008/cgc871.htm

And here's an article about the whole LPTV-as-FM thing:
http://www.rwonline.com/article/71552

KSFV's audio, BTW, has full 75 kHz deviation (WAY over the full-power TV limit, whether it's legal for a LP is open to interpretation) plus FM stereo, although I've never heard any actual stereo programming from them.

They seem to be running more shows with talking head (or preaching head?) video lately. Usually with bad white clipping ...

KSFV also advertises themselves as a radio station.

http://www.guadaluperadio.com/site/

I realize that many channel 6's across the country have viewed this as a "windfall," but in the case of KSFV, it's more of a front for another radio frequency (87.7). Note that the FCC FM Query does not allow one to search 87.7.

I saw the talking head at home last night, but when I was driving home it sounded like talk radio. The radio banner said KSFV 87.7 Guadalupe Radio.

Overrunning the audio signal vs. the exceptionally weak video signal doesn't help their case, but do they realize that when they flash-cut that they will lose all FM radio service?

My signal strength was flying all over. Highest was 80% to 3%! Even no signal lock. What the heck? Is it because of the rain storm we're having? Even KABC7 was decent (normal).

Man, I still prefer analog! ;)

My signal strength was flying all over. Highest was 80% to 3%! Even no signal lock. What the heck? Is it because of the rain storm we're having? Even KABC7 was decent (normal).

Man, I still prefer analog! ;)

It's most likely caused by the rain storm. The rain can cause fluctuations in the signal amplitude which can corrupt the digital data. The digital signal uses 8 levels of amplitude to represent 3 bits of data. Error correction algorithms are used to compensate for the minor bit errors but during a rain storm when the received signal is already low there are too many errors hence the loss of reception. Using a better antenna with a preamplifier will increase the received signal strength and therefore reduce the amount of bit error.

It's most likely caused by the rain storm. The rain can cause fluctuations in the signal amplitude which can corrupt the digital data. The digital signal uses 8 levels of amplitude to represent 3 bits of data. Error correction algorithms are used to compensate for the minor bit errors but during a rain storm when the received signal is already low there are too many errors hence the loss of reception. Using a better antenna with a preamplifier will increase the received signal strength and therefore reduce the amount of bit error.Currently, I use a bowtie a DB2 HDTV bowtie antenna (30 miles) in my room on a bookshelf, and I am less than 20 miles from most of the transmitters (232 degrees on a compass). So, what type of antenna do I need and what does this preamp do? I will probably wait until after the 2/17/2009 date (unless delayed again) to see how the new channels are.

I will probably wait until after the 2/17/2009 date (unless delayed again) to see how the new channels are.

:eek:

With all due respect, are you craaaazy?

WHY are you waiting? Hook the darn box up and see what happens!

:eek:

With all due respect, are you craaaazy?

WHY are you waiting? Hook the darn box up and see what happens!Huh? What box? I already have a HDTV tuner card in my PC for it. I am just saying that I will probably need to get a new antenna after the TV channels get moved around on 2/17/2009.

It's most likely caused by the rain storm. The rain can cause fluctuations in the signal amplitude which can corrupt the digital data. The digital signal uses 8 levels of amplitude to represent 3 bits of data. Error correction algorithms are used to compensate for the minor bit errors but during a rain storm when the received signal is already low there are too many errors hence the loss of reception. Using a better antenna with a preamplifier will increase the received signal strength and therefore reduce the amount of bit error.

Correct. Even worse are Santa Ana winds, which can, in extreme cases, make digital TV practically unwatchable, except on very strong stations.

Correct. Even worse are Santa Ana winds, which can, in extreme cases, make digital TV practically unwatchable, except on very strong stations.When you say strong stations, which ones are those? Are you referring to singal strengths? KTLA 5 digital usually gives me close to 100%.

When you say strong stations, which ones are those? Are you referring to singal strengths? KTLA 5 digital usually gives me close to 100%.

The TV signals compete with inherent noise in your tuner (known as thermal noise). This noise adds to the signal level therefore the tuner can misread the signal level. So the solution is to maximize the received signal by using a high gain antenna and a preamplifier right at the antenna to compensate for the losses inherent in any RF cable. My setup is just as I described and I have no problems receiving during a rain storm.

The TV signals compete with inherent noise in your tuner (known as thermal noise). This noise adds to the signal level therefore the tuner can misread the signal level. So the solution is to maximize the received signal by using a high gain antenna and a preamplifier right at the antenna to compensate for the losses inherent in any RF cable. My setup is just as I described and I have no problems receiving during a rain storm.Which premap do you recommend for my bowtie antenna to try?

Currently, I use a bowtie a DB2 HDTV bowtie antenna (30 miles) in my room on a bookshelf, and I am less than 20 miles from most of the transmitters (232 degrees on a compass). So, what type of antenna do I need and what does this preamp do? I will probably wait until after the 2/17/2009 date (unless delayed again) to see how the new channels are.

I am guessing if you move your antenna outside of the house your issues will disappear. As the signal travels into the house various things can cause minor signal reflections which become major issues when signal amplitude drops and ECC has to be applied. Before I bought a pre amp I would re-locate my antenna either outside, or if that is impossible, to a large open space like an attic.

Huh? What box? I already have a HDTV tuner card in my PC for it. I am just saying that I will probably need to get a new antenna after the TV channels get moved around on 2/17/2009.

Ahhh ... gotcha. I misundazstood (happening a lot lately).

Which premap do you recommend for my bowtie antenna to try?

I brought my pre-amp at Fry's. It's made by Channel Master and has 300 ohm input to coaxial output. The power is injected into the coaxial cable at the TV end. I can't find the part number but it has 12 db gain across the UHF band and it includes a FM trap to reduce FM overload. It also seems to amplify channel 7 thru 13 so I might not need a VHF antenna afterall.

My signal strength was flying all over. Highest was 80% to 3%! Even no signal lock. What the heck? Is it because of the rain storm we're having? Even KABC7 was decent (normal).

Man, I still prefer analog! ;)

The whole transition period, the last several years, was put in place to find and solve all the problems. From what I can get on DTV and the quality I get there are still ALOT of problems.

But the 17th is fast approching... Besides once ABC switched over my wife will be happy that we can get HDTV on 7. Today we can not get 53.

When you say strong stations, which ones are those? Are you referring to singal strengths? KTLA 5 digital usually gives me close to 100%.

This would vary somewhat with your location. For me, the strongest would be KCBS 2, KCAL 9, LSCI 18 (which I almost never watch) and a few others which run pretty much 100%. Almost as strong would be KNBC 4, KTLA 5 and KABC 7. These run around 90-100%.

This would vary somewhat with your location. For me, the strongest would be KCBS 2, KCAL 9, LSCI 18 (which I almost never watch) and a few others which run pretty much 100%. Almost as strong would be KNBC 4, KTLA 5 and KABC 7. These run around 90-100%.For me, the weakest ones are KABC (7) and KLCS (58) for digital. On analog, they are clear.

I brought my pre-amp at Fry's. It's made by Channel Master and has 300 ohm input to coaxial output. The power is injected into the coaxial cable at the TV end. I can't find the part number but it has 12 db gain across the UHF band and it includes a FM trap to reduce FM overload. It also seems to amplify channel 7 thru 13 so I might not need a VHF antenna afterall.Is there a name for it?

I am guessing if you move your antenna outside of the house your issues will disappear. As the signal travels into the house various things can cause minor signal reflections which become major issues when signal amplitude drops and ECC has to be applied. Before I bought a pre amp I would re-locate my antenna either outside, or if that is impossible, to a large open space like an attic.Isn't putting the antenna facing the side wall enough like putting in attic (attic still has walls too :P)? I can't face my window because of its special coating for keeping heat out during hot days, or else signals fall like hack. I am facing the wall next to the window.

For me, the weakest ones are KABC (7) and KLCS (58) for digital. On analog, they are clear.

KLCS 58 is also rather weak, but normally perfectly watchable here. KABC 7 is qhiute strong. By the way, all of my comments pertain only to the digital signals; I should have been more clear. I haven't really looked at any analog TV in a very long time now, but, back when I did watch analog TV, as with you, all were strong, except for KLCS which was quite snowy.

KLCS 58 is also rather weak, but normally perfectly watchable here. KABC 7 is qhiute strong. By the way, all of my comments pertain only to the digital signals; I should have been more clear. I haven't really looked at any analog TV in a very long time now, but, back when I did watch analog TV, as with you, all were strong, except for KLCS which was quite snowy.Ah, analog is good for me. See, when there ARE problems on analog, at leasrt I get fussy/fuzzy, snows, etc. Digital, it is either I have it or not. :(

Is there a name for it?

I found it on the Fry's website.
It is Channel Master antenna preamplifier, part no. 3039.
Fry's has other preampifiers you might wnat to check out.

I found it on the Fry's website.
It is Channel Master antenna preamplifier, part no. 3039.
Fry's has other preampifiers you might wnat to check out.I assume this is yours and similiar to others: http://www.summitsource.com/channel-master-3039-vhf-uhf-preamplifier-channel-max-13-db-cm3039-preamplifer-hdtv-antenna-outdoor-local-hd-tv-signal-booster-part-cm3039-p-6639.html ...

Is there a manual/instruction on how this is hooked up? I see it uses power supply too (another one on my crowded power strips? :(). And also how do I hook up the two little tail plugs? I have a HDTV tuner card that only has a coax cable port hole.

I assume this is yours and similiar to others: http://www.summitsource.com/channel-master-3039-vhf-uhf-preamplifier-channel-max-13-db-cm3039-preamplifer-hdtv-antenna-outdoor-local-hd-tv-signal-booster-part-cm3039-p-6639.html ...

Is there a manual/instruction on how this is hooked up? I see it uses power supply too (another one on my crowded power strips? :(). And also how do I hook up the two little tail plugs? I have a HDTV tuner card that only has a coax cable port hole.

The little tail plugs is designed for use on an outside antenna which usually has a 300 ohm twin lead connection. If your antenna only has a coaxial output then you have to find a pre-amplifier with coax in and out. By the way those passive 300 ohms to 75 ohms adapters that usually come with the video equipments are very lossy. So are the two or three way splitters. I would put the pre-amplifier before any of these devices.

The little tail plugs is designed for use on an outside antenna which usually has a 300 ohm twin lead connection. If your antenna only has a coaxial output then you have to find a pre-amplifier with coax in and out. By the way those passive 300 ohms to 75 ohms adapters that usually come with the video equipments are very lossy. So are the two or three way splitters. I would put the pre-amplifier before any of these devices.Here's the antenna I have had for a few years: http://www.antennasdirect.com/DB2_Indoor_antenna.html (mine is an older model).

I think I am better off to get a new antenna that comes with preamp exists after 2/17/2009 date. What do you think?

Here's the antenna I have had for a few years: http://www.antennasdirect.com/DB2_Indoor_antenna.html (mine is an older model).

I think I am better off to get a new antenna that comes with preamp exists after 2/17/2009 date. What do you think?

It appears from the picture that the antenna has two wing nut connectors on the front. That is where you connect those pigtail connectors and use a long coaxial cable. This will allow you to move the antenna around your room for the best reception location.

I not aware of any outdoor antenna coming with a built in antenna but there are indoor antennas with the pre-amplifier built-in. You still have to move it around the room for the best reception.

It appears from the picture that the antenna has two wing nut connectors on the front. That is where you connect those pigtail connectors and use a long coaxial cable...Are you saying I need to remove the old ones (connected on the antenna) to connect to preamp's?

See http://www.antennasdirect.com/DB2_assembly.html for the assembly instructions (photos. are still small though).

Are you saying I need to remove the old ones (connected on the antenna) to connect to preamp's?

See http://www.antennasdirect.com/DB2_assembly.html for the assembly instructions (photos. are still small though).

If you are already supplying power to the antenna then you have a pre-amp installed and don't need a new one. You can still attach a long coaxial cable if you haven't done so, so you can test reception at different room locations.

It's not worth the time or money trying to improve a DB2 right now. It has no VHF reception to speak of, and with 4 stations moving back to VHF next month, it's not going to be usable by itself. Your best bet is to pick up a combo VHF high/UHF antenna now and get it all set outdoors, and then all you'll need to do on 2/18 is rescan on all your tuners.

Someone has ABC7 with SAP in Primetime shows, like Ugly Betty or Greys Anatomy. Because I dont receive this signal in spanish only in english mono, and I want the spanish audio.

The pig-tails on the CM-3039 Preamp connect to wing nuts on DB-2 and coax downlead
runs down to vicinity of TV. The "Tee" adapter is inserted on the coax before
connecting to the TV, with other port connected to AC-to-DC Power Supply.

Channel Master On-Air Installation Guide is here:
http://www.solidsignal.com/manuals/AntInstallGuide.pdf

Winegard Preamp instructions are functionally no different...and are easier to read:
http://www.winegarddirect.com/pdf/manual_AD-HDP.pdf

Antennas Direct Preamp instructions even show a DB-2:
http://www.antennasdirect.com/amplifier_installation.html
If 75-ohm input Preamp is used, the pig-tails of a 300-to-75-ohm Transformer
(Balun) adapter is connected to DB-2 and coax output connected to Preamp input.

==================================
If you can adequately receive analog Ch7-13 now, then the DB-2 is probably
good enough when they go digital. If not, you need a "real" VHF antenna,
such as Philips PHDTV3 or Terk HDTVa which have a Preamp built-in and
collapsible rabbit ears for VHF:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_e_0_14?url=search-alias%3Delectronics&field-keywords=philips+silver+sensor&x=0&y=0&sprefix=philips+silver
http://www.amazon.com/Terk-Amplified-High-Definition-Antenna-Reception/dp/B0007MXZB2

Alternatively Rabbit Ears or a DIY Folded Dipole can be combined with your
DB-2 using a low loss UVSJ UHF/VHF Combiner prior to going through the more
common 75-ohm input type Preamp:
http://www.wfu.edu/~matthews/misc/dipole.html
Tune Folded Dipole for 200 MHz in the middle of the Hi-VHF band.
Here's the UVSJ:
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=UVSJ

PS: I would try to get the antenna some distance AWAY from your computer
to minimize interference as much as possible....

Use of a 300 to 75 ohm transformer (balun) adapter at the antenna should be avoided since they typically have 1.5 to 2.0 dB insertion loss. Where I live, I'm in the blue zone (per TVFOOL) and I need to avoid any losses. Signals lost can never be recovered. That's why I am using a 300 ohm input pre-amp.

It is puzzling how many people are complaining about KABC 7 (53) being weak. It is very strong here, running about 80 - 100 in signal strength. Apparently it has a very irregular radiation pattern. I wish stations like KCET and KTTV were as strong. KCET is particularly frustrating with its roller coaster signal strenth, often going from 75 down to 15 and back again, often within a minute or two.

That is the weird thing...here in south Orange County ( Lake Forest), KABC-DT is a no-show but KTTV is fine (KCET is a no-show much of the time too)

If you are already supplying power to the antenna then you have a pre-amp installed and don't need a new one. You can still attach a long coaxial cable if you haven't done so, so you can test reception at different room locations.Just antenna hooked up to the HDTV tuner cards. No power.

That is the weird thing...here in south Orange County ( Lake Forest), KABC-DT is a no-show but KTTV is fine (KCET is a no-show much of the time too)So, you used to get KABC? Interesting. I haven't checked KCET for a while so don't know if it is still good or not.

It's not worth the time or money trying to improve a DB2 right now. It has no VHF reception to speak of, and with 4 stations moving back to VHF next month, it's not going to be usable by itself. Your best bet is to pick up a combo VHF high/UHF antenna now and get it all set outdoors, and then all you'll need to do on 2/18 is rescan on all your tuners.Yeah, that is why I might replace it after 2/17/2009 if I still have problems. Not going to do it now since I can't test the new channels. :>

That is the weird thing...here in south Orange County ( Lake Forest), KABC-DT is a no-show but KTTV is fine (KCET is a no-show much of the time too)I checked my KCET 28.1's signal strength. It is high (96% to 100%). KABC7.1 is lower today at 40%-60% (jumpy). KTLA 5.1 seems stable now (78%-80%).

So, you used to get KABC? Interesting. I haven't checked KCET for a while so don't know if it is still good or not.

Yes, KABC used to be one of the stronger signals... no more! I get a good strong signal on 7 (analog) so, I am one of those that wants the transition to happen sooner than later.

Yes, KABC used to be one of the stronger signals... no more! I get a good strong signal on 7 (analog) so, I am one of those that wants the transition to happen sooner than later.I wonder what KABC7 do to lower it. And how do we know if the transition will fix it?

The OC Register had an article today about the transition. The following is a link to the online version.

http://gadgetress.freedomblogging.com/dtv2009/

I'm in the Hollywood Hills, which is a nightmare for OTA reception. I watch mostly dvds, but occasionally like to catch a program on KCET. I was able to get snowy reception before with an analog signal and an analog tv. My first try converting to digital was the RCA DTA 800 converter box which brought in a lot of stations but not KCET. I put up a DB2 antenna on the roof and was able to pull in KCET but lost it every time the wind blew or a helicopter went by. A new converter box - the Zenith 901 - improved things dramatically. I got KCET and some other channels clearly and consistently. Feeling confident I splurged and bought a new Panasonic plasma. Guess what? The ATSC tuner inside is as bad as the RCA box. no more KCET. If you own a Samsung are you happy with the ATSC tuner? I need to decide whether to return the pany or live with it and a converter box.

The tuner on my Samsung 24" HDTV monitor (Touch of Color series) is very good. I have found it to be slightly better than my 3 year old Sony and certainly much better than the On-Air GT USB tuner.

One drawback with it, however, is the apparent lack of a manual channel add feature. It doesn't matter much here as I don't need to move the antenna, but for other markets that do, it is a significant oversight.

KCET should be improved when they move back to 28, but it is unclear if they would move on 2/17-18 if the transition is delayed. Thus far, I have not confirmed that any LA station will end analog before the national transition, other than KJLA, which turned off analog last summer.

There is a new bill before congress to postpone the changeover from February 17 to June 12. You can read about it at http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents

The delay will just add more confusion to the whole process. And second, the new date is after the kick off of NASCAR and the Emmy® awards.

Use of a 300 to 75 ohm transformer (balun) adapter at the antenna should be avoided since they typically have 1.5 to 2.0 dB insertion loss. Where I live, I'm in the blue zone (per TVFOOL) and I need to avoid any losses. Signals lost can never be recovered. That's why I am using a 300 ohm input pre-amp.
Since no one builds a Preamp with a differential input transistor, there is NO WAY
to eliminate the Balun. The 300-ohm input Preamps have the Balun BUILT-IN:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=60563&d=1153268779

BTW: 75-ohm type antennas, (e.g Winegard YA, HD, CA) come with a 1:1 Ferrite Balun
(CB-2130 or CB-8269) which ALSO have significant insertion loss....

I based my statement on the specifed UHF band noise figure for a 300 ohm vs a 75 ohm input preampifier. I thought Friis' formula would include input losses. Please correct me if I am mistaken. Thanks.

There is a new bill before congress to postpone the changeover from February 17 to June 12. You can read about it at http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocentsOfficially passed! http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/26/AR2009012601984.html

Yay for my analog feeds for my old CRT TV and VCR. :P

I based my statement on the specifed UHF band noise figure for a 300 ohm vs a 75 ohm input preampifier. I thought Friis' formula would include input losses. Please correct me if I am mistaken. Thanks.
Neither C-M nor W-G stipulate the "standard test conditions" for their Preamps
as would be expected in any decent spec sheet. (How the signal generator is
connected and where the measurements are made.)

Given the significant UHF Balun loss I've measured, it is obvious that they are
EXCLUDING the loss of the Balun (whether internal or external) in their specs.
So the Preamp specs for a 75-ohm input Preamp are nearly the SAME as the
300-ohm input Preamp when measured AFTER the built-in Balun.

The tuner on my Samsung 24" HDTV monitor (Touch of Color series) is very good. I have found it to be slightly better than my 3 year old Sony and certainly much better than the On-Air GT USB tuner.

One drawback with it, however, is the apparent lack of a manual channel add feature. It doesn't matter much here as I don't need to move the antenna, but for other markets that do, it is a significant oversight.

KCET should be improved when they move back to 28, but it is unclear if they would move on 2/17-18 if the transition is delayed. Thus far, I have not confirmed that any LA station will end analog before the national transition, other than KJLA, which turned off analog last summer.
Thank you for the feed back on your Samsung's tuner. I have a feeling you're right about KCET, but when the change over will take place is very confusing. PBS is saying the delay from February to June is going to cost them money and that if they're allowed to choose when to switch, then they might let the individual stations decide.

TVWeek.com (http://www.tvweek.com/news/2009/01/this_tv_cleared_in_60_of_us.php)

MGM and Weigel Broadcasting’s digital service THIS TV is cleared in 60% of the country with the addition of certain Tribune, Sunbeam, Raycom and Quincy Newspaper stations, the companies announced today.

Stations added to the list of clearances include Tribune’s KTLA in Los Angeles, WPHL in Philadelphia, WDCW in Washington, D.C., WTIC/WTXX in Hartford, Conn., and WGNO/WNOL in New Orleans. Also involved in the deal are Sunbeam’s WHDH in Boston and Raycom’s WUAB in Cleveland, WXIX in Cincinnati, WMC in Memphis, Tenn., WAVE in Louisville, Ky., and WNTZ in Knoxville, Tenn.

I hope it shows up this time. This link (http://titantvguide.titantv.com/apg/basic.aspx?siteid=52545) shows the programming typically on it and it appears to show almost movies exclusively. That would be cool.

I would have rather seen THIS on KDOC instead of siphoning bandwidth from KTLA. KTLA is currently #2 for picture quality, behind KCBS. So much for that...

PBS is saying the delay from February to June is going to cost them money and that if they're allowed to choose when to switch, then they might let the individual stations decide.

About half of the 141 stations (nationally) that have so far put their foot down on transitioning on 2/17-18 are PBS stations. No confirmations yet from any LA stations, but there was an article on (K)TBN in the Register bemoaning the extended power bills they are considering.

http://gadgetress.freedomblogging.com/2009/01/23/digital-tv-delay-will-cost-some-channels-40kmonth/9136/

For years, TBN has been paying $30,000 to $40,000 each month on electricity bills to keep its analog transmitter running. A four-month delay would cost an extra $4.32 million because TBN has stations in 36 regions.

That number seems high considering KTBN is only running 631kW on analog and 50kW on DTV.

About half of the 141 stations (nationally) that have so far put their foot down on transitioning on 2/17-18 are PBS stations. No confirmations yet from any LA stations, but there was an article on (K)TBN in the Register bemoaning the extended power bills they are considering...Interesting. I hope L.A. TV stations will tell us when they change to digital before the 17th.

I'm in the Hollywood Hills, which is a nightmare for OTA reception. I watch mostly dvds, but occasionally like to catch a program on KCET. I was able to get snowy reception before with an analog signal and an analog tv. My first try converting to digital was the RCA DTA 800 converter box which brought in a lot of stations but not KCET. I put up a DB2 antenna on the roof and was able to pull in KCET but lost it every time the wind blew or a helicopter went by. A new converter box - the Zenith 901 - improved things dramatically. I got KCET and some other channels clearly and consistently. Feeling confident I splurged and bought a new Panasonic plasma. Guess what? The ATSC tuner inside is as bad as the RCA box. no more KCET. If you own a Samsung are you happy with the ATSC tuner? I need to decide whether to return the pany or live with it and a converter box.
I have a '32 Samsung 450. The tuner is ok I guess.

Sometimes I can get 40 channels and sometimes 80. I agree with Falcon_77, it annoys me that there is no way you can manually add a channel.

But other than that I'm happy with it. You didn't mention what kind of antenna you have. That may be the source of your problem.

Try ElectroniC City in Burbank, on Burbank Blvd. They carry Weingard, have a good supply in stock, and can order anything they don't have. I don't know if they carry other brands, but they are an outstanding dealer for all sorts of electronic supplies. You might also check Fry's, but I don't know how much they carry, and I have never shopped for antennas there.

Forget about an indoor antenna for DTV, unless you live in a very favored location. DTV can be a challenge sometimes even for a good high gain roof installation. To me the idea of an indoor antenna for DTV sounds somewhat like a joke.
Thanks, I will do that.

I live in the Palms/Culver City area in a 5 story apt. bldg. on the 2nd flr. There are many apt. bldgs. in the area.

The 1 window I have faces away from Mt. Wilson/Harvard which is about 25mi away in the NE due east direction (per AntennaWeb).

I can never get Ch. 2. Ch. 7 & 13 rarely come in and Ch. 28 & 58 are hit & miss.

What criteria/specs should I look for in an antenna? What kind of antenna setup do I need? What is an amp/preamp? How do people know the signal strength of a station?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm new at this.

I live in the Palms/Culver City area in a 5 story apt. bldg. on the 2nd flr. There are many apt. bldgs. in the area.

The 1 window I have faces away from Mt. Wilson/Harvard which is about 25mi away in the NE due east direction (per AntennaWeb).

I can never get Ch. 2. Ch. 7 & 13 rarely come in and Ch. 28 & 58 are hit & miss.

What criteria/specs should I look for in an antenna? What kind of antenna setup do I need? What is an amp/preamp? How do people know the signal strength of a station?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm new at this.


What kind of antenna are you using now, and where can you put an antenna? Would you be allowed to place one on the roof or are you limited to your apartment? If you are limited to the apartment, I don't think a preamp would help much, since its main advantage is that it boosts the signal strength at the antenna, thereby helping to overcome the effects of line losses encountered by the signal in a long feedline (as you might have in a roof installation). You do seem to have a difficult situation; in any case it would help to know exactly what you would be allowed to do there. :)

My office in the same area and have perfect reception on all of the Mt. Wilson, Mt. Harvard stations as well as KVCR-DT from Box Springs SE of Riverside. What antenna as well as type of coax cable to the antenna are you using? Are you using more than one TV on the antenna?

My office in the same area and have perfect reception on all of the Mt. Wilson, Mt. Harvard stations as well as KVCR-DT from Box Springs SE of Riverside. What antenna as well as type of coax cable to the antenna are you using? Are you using more than one TV on the antenna?

His problem is, his apartment faces the wrong direction. This looks like a job for "lifeline" cable, sorry to say.

One straw to grasp at: Check with apartment management to see if there's already an antenna on the roof available to residents.

Its the DB2 antenna from antennasdirect , it's on the roof, and KCET comes in fine with the Zenith 901 box but not with the Panasonic plasma 50PZ80U (made in December 2008).

... One straw to grasp at: Check with apartment management to see if there's already an antenna on the roof available to residents.

Very good point! And even if there isn't one, the manager might even be willing to put one up for all the tenants that might one ... another straw.

Although they probably did it because of the "encouragement" from the network representatives. US House Kills Proposed Delay For Digital TV Transition.
Link (http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09%2F01%2F28%2F1930250&from=rss)

They were going to postpone it until summer.:eek:

Rudy

Although they probably did it because of the "encouragement" from the network representatives. US House Kills Proposed Delay For Digital TV Transition.
Link (http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09%2F01%2F28%2F1930250&from=rss)

They were going to postpone it until summer.:eek:

Rudy

Don't break out the bubbly yet. It failed to pass because it was voted on under a procedure that required a 2/3 majority.

If they manage to get another bill on the floor for a "normal" vote, it will pass easily.

Don't break out the bubbly yet. It failed to pass because it was voted on under a procedure that required a 2/3 majority.

If they manage to get another bill on the floor for a "normal" vote, it will pass easily.
Yeah, kinda sad, how clueless these guys are. Anyway, there are only 2 weeks left and they would have to do it within two weeks. :O :)
Possible but less likely.

Rudy

Officially passed! http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/26/AR2009012601984.html

Yay for my analog feeds for my old CRT TV and VCR. :POK, not passed since I forgot the House's approval. They denied it. :P

What kind of antenna are you using now, and where can you put an antenna? Would you be allowed to place one on the roof or are you limited to your apartment? If you are limited to the apartment, I don't think a preamp would help much, since its main advantage is that it boosts the signal strength at the antenna, thereby helping to overcome the effects of line losses encountered by the signal in a long feedline (as you might have in a roof installation). You do seem to have a difficult situation; in any case it would help to know exactly what you would be allowed to do there. :)
In response to your questions:

I have a RCA ANT 103 TV antenna(UHF/VHF). Guess I shouldn't complain, the rabbit ears are broken off at the midway point.

The coaxial cable is 75-ohm w/F-type connectors(came w/my Sony DVD/Video Cassette player).

My only option is inside my apt. as there is no antenna on the roof and the landlord won't install one. Also, I only have one TV.

But I also heard something very interesting today. The maint. guy told me he hooked up his TV to his cable outlet to get reception. He said he gets great reception for all the OTA stations(analog & digital). No cable stations, but he doesn't have cable anyway. He told me to try that.

What do you guys think? Is that really possible? Is it legal?

Thanks

Trying to dispel some FUD re Ch13 performance with Winegard YA-1713
Hi-VHF Antenna. More complete version (with NEC files & Results) was posted
in Antenna Thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15691864

In hdtvprimer antenna chart, Winegard YA-1713 is depicted with a big
Gain Loss across Ch13: www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html
Results are based on Ken Nist's NEC simulation runs several years ago....

The link at the top of that webpage leads to Ken Nist's w1713a.ez NEC file
and ant.xls summary. Neither of these depict a big Gain Loss across Ch13!!!!!

I have been trying to reproduce Ken Nist's results as well as calculate 4nec2
results for a recently purchased YA-1713....which appears to have different
element diameters and other measurements than the one modeled by Ken Nist....
perhaps there are two different models??? Furthermore, Nist assumed/found
a better match to 300-ohm, whereas mine is 75-ohm.

Can anyone verify their YA-1713 antenna measurements against either
antenna??? Has anyone conducted any ON-AIR measurements???
Does anyone have problems with Analog Ch13???

I conducted an ON-AIR TEST with an RF attenuator to see if Analog Ch13's
audio/video dropped out any earlier than other Hi-VHF channels and
whether Ch13's audio dropped out early, in comparison to Ch13's video.
All channels performed THE SAME.
Hence I concluded the Big Gain Loss across Ch13 was NOT FOUND in
a 70-mile live test and must be an artifact of the incomplete NEC Simulation
process (still working on a more detailed model).

What I can add about the Winegard YA-1713 and channel 13 is that here in El Paso our analog PBS station is on 13 and I tried numerous antennas and orintations to try and get the "ghost" out of 13 with no success. I am about 30 miles from the transmitter which is up on a mountain and also have a smaller mountain range behind me at about 10 miles.
I bought the YA-1713 based more on it's front-to-back ratio than gain and was amazed to completly loose the multipath refelection for the first time in the 8 years I had lived here.

What I can add about the Winegard YA-1713 and channel 13 is that here in El Paso our analog PBS station is on 13 and I tried numerous antennas and orintations to try and get the "ghost" out of 13 with no success. I am about 30 miles from the transmitter which is up on a mountain and also have a smaller mountain range behind me at about 10 miles.
I bought the YA-1713 based more on it's front-to-back ratio than gain and was amazed to completly loose the multipath refelection for the first time in the 8 years I had lived here.


That is good news! I have a YA-1713 on order to cover to hi-band VHF channels after the DTV changeover. My geographical situation here is a somewhat similar to yours.

In response to your questions:

I have a RCA ANT 103 TV antenna(UHF/VHF). Guess I shouldn't complain, the rabbit ears are broken off at the midway point.

The coaxial cable is 75-ohm w/F-type connectors(came w/my Sony DVD/Video Cassette player).

My only option is inside my apt. as there is no antenna on the roof and the landlord won't install one. Also, I only have one TV.

But I also heard something very interesting today. The maint. guy told me he hooked up his TV to his cable outlet to get reception. He said he gets great reception for all the OTA stations(analog & digital). No cable stations, but he doesn't have cable anyway. He told me to try that.

What do you guys think? Is that really possible? Is it legal?

Thanks

I'd bet my donut hole collection that you DO have an antenna on the roof, and that's what your maintenance guy is getting through that "cable" outlet. Perhaps the management hasn't been in place long enough to remember it's up there.

Regardless ... if there are no cable channels, then it ain't cable, and it's perfectly legal. Problem solved. 5 cents please. :D

In response to your questions:

I have a RCA ANT 103 TV antenna(UHF/VHF). Guess I shouldn't complain, the rabbit ears are broken off at the midway point.

The coaxial cable is 75-ohm w/F-type connectors(came w/my Sony DVD/Video Cassette player).

My only option is inside my apt. as there is no antenna on the roof and the landlord won't install one. Also, I only have one TV.

But I also heard something very interesting today. The maint. guy told me he hooked up his TV to his cable outlet to get reception. He said he gets great reception for all the OTA stations(analog & digital). No cable stations, but he doesn't have cable anyway. He told me to try that.

What do you guys think? Is that really possible? Is it legal?

Thanks

It sounds like the maint. man is getting cable service without paying for it. Perhaps the cable provider is not able to switch off service to individual apartments, and just has to assume that each tenant using it is paying for the service. If that is the case, what he is doing would be, I think, illegal. Also, local TV stations over cable may not have as good picture quality, and may not include all of the subchannels, for stations that do broadcast multiple programming over subchannels. I know, for example, that Direct TV satellite does omit them.

My suggestion at this point would be to investigate as to what are the best antennas that are availible that you can put up inside your apartment, buy one and try it. Mayube you are in an enough favored location where you can actually pull it off!

I'd bet my donut hole collection that you DO have an antenna on the roof, and that's what your maintenance guy is getting through that "cable" outlet. Perhaps the management hasn't been in place long enough to remember it's up there.

Regardless ... if there are no cable channels, then it ain't cable, and it's perfectly legal. Problem solved. 5 cents please. :D


Good point! Let's hope that is the case. If so, it would be perfectly legal and shoogy can go ahead and tap in and get excellent OTA reception. As you mentioned, it can be verfified easily, just by checking as to whether there are any (basic) cable channels present.

Assuming the mandatory Feb. 17 analog shutdown is delayed. (Seems likely now)

What L.A. station will be next to voluntarily shut down their analog transmitter?

I assume maybe a station less worried about Nielsen ratings, a PBS station?

Will any of the VHF stations change to a digital signal? Maybe KCOP or KCAL?

What do you think?

I think they'll all be too wimpy to go first and lose that audience to their competitors who are still on the air in analog. The only reason KJLA did it was because 97% of their analog viewers watch their Mt. Wilson translator, which is still up and running.

I thought this was worth porting over from the thread in which it originally appeared. Despite what it does to my post immediately above this one. :rolleyes:

At our monthly SBE luncheon in Sacramento Tuesday, we coincidentally had a presentation by a representative from the FCC. He said that he had been given no direction to back away from the Feb. 17 date. In view of the unanticipated extra costs of running an analog transmitter (and all associated support equipment) four extra months, broadcasters in Sacramento, San Francisco and Los Angeles are leaning toward shutting down as originally scheduled. None have budgeted for the significant extra cost. Legally, they are covered, having given viewers much more than 30 days notice of their intent to shut down on the 17th.

Yeah, I woke up this morning and thought about all the contracts that have already been written to undertake meeting the Feb. 17 deadline.

Why scrap them all? The plans have already be made.

At the very least the Big 4 (No CW, not you) should get together and negotiate the changeover to happen over the course of the Feb. 17 week. That would seem to be the best penny-pinching method way to do it if you ask me.

TIM

Yeah, I woke up this morning and thought about all the contracts that have already been written to undertake meeting the Feb. 17 deadline.

Why scrap them all? The plans have already be made.

At the very least the Big 4 (No CW, not you) should get together and negotiate the changeover to happen over the course of the Feb. 17 week. That would seem to be the best penny-pinching method way to do it if you ask me.

TIM

Very good points. Actually only three of these will be moving. KNBC will be staying put on ch 36. And KCBS will only be playing "musical chairs" with its sister station KCAL when the latter moves back to ch 9, by moving to ch 43, KCAL's present frequency.

.... Actually only three of these will be moving. ...

No it's a bit more a elaborate than that.

As you mentioned KCBS-DT moves from 60 to 43
but also...
KABC-DT moves from 53 to 7
KCAL-DT moves from 43 to 9
KTTV-DT moves from 65 to 11
KCOP-DT moves from 66 to 13
KSCI-DT moves from 61 to 18
KCET-DT moves from 59 to 28

Plus analog channels 2, 4, 5, 22, 30, 34, 40, 50, 52, 54, 56, 58, 62, 63, 67 will be shutdown.

Thus my reasoning that they should take a week or so for the changeover instead of the previous all-at-midnight Feb. 17 method.

TIM

Is anyone else having problems locking on KNBC4 even though the signal strength is from 70% to 90%? I noticed it last night (SNL) and right now (SuperBowl). Sometimes it takes up to 20 seconds to lock on. Sometimes, instant.

Is anyone else having problems locking on KNBC4 even though the signal strength is from 70% to 90%? I noticed it last night (SNL) and right now (SuperBowl). Sometimes it takes up to 20 seconds to lock on. Sometimes, instant.Interesting. A few minutes ago, I had a minute frozen feed and then it resumed (pixelly) for a second. Grr.

4:40 PM PST: Saw my signal strength go down to 11%. Yikes. Weather looks calm and clear outside. Is Mt. Wilson different?

During half-time show, I completely lost my feed twice for like a few minutes. I couldn't get a signal lock at all.

Just now (5:17 PM PST), 29%! Something is wacky!

The weather looks calm and clear outside. Weatherunderground.com says things are clear and quiet. Is there something wacky at Mt. Wilson these days?

Other stations seem OK to me, including KABC7 (50-60% signal strengths), that have been problematic recently.

Of course, KNBC's analog feed is OK and watchable even if it is not perfect clear (always like that -- mostly dots).

--

6:08 PM PST: Half-time and second half are really bad now. :( I saw 5% earlier!

No problems here. None. Zip.

Best of luck to the KNBC engineer who screwed up that gazillion-dollar break. :eek:

No problems here. None. Zip.

Best of luck to the KNBC engineer who screwed up that gazillion-dollar break. :eek:Must be my area.

Which break moment? I must had missed it during the signal loss (didn't see it on my analog when I switched).

It was sometime in the vicinity of halftime (before Bruce). Three or four incomplete ads in a row. Looked like they were running local ads when they weren't supposed to, but why it kept bouncing back and forth, I have no idea.

It was sometime in the vicinity of halftime (before Bruce). Three or four incomplete ads in a row. Looked like they were running local ads when they weren't supposed to, but why it kept bouncing back and forth, I have no idea.I don't remember any incomplete ads, but I do remember repeated ads too soon.

Because my AV receiver was not working, I was watching TV with the antenna connected directly to the TV's tuner (SHARP LC-52D92U). When I did a channel scan the TV found a channels 8.1, 8.2, 8.3. It was a great channel showing lots of really old black & white movies.

I'm now using the TV tuner that I use when the receiver is working (SAMSUNG DTB-H260F). It does not have channel 8 in it's memory and when I punched 8.1 into the remote it did not find the channel. Is there a list of channel numbers and virtual channel numbers for the Los Angeles area?

Because my AV receiver was not working, I was watching TV with the antenna connected directly to the TV's tuner (SHARP LC-52D92U). When I did a channel scan the TV found a channels 8.1, 8.2, 8.3. It was a great channel showing lots of really old black & white movies.

I'm now using the TV tuner that I use when the receiver is working (SAMSUNG DTB-H260F). It does not have channel 8 in it's memory and when I punched 8.1 into the remote it did not find the channel. Is there a list of channel numbers and virtual channel numbers for the Los Angeles area?

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?mktid=2

It actually is on channel 8 though, KFLA-LD.

- Trip

It was a great channel showing lots of really old black & white movies.

Don't get too impressed. Their movie library consists of the same stuff you find on the DVDs at the 99 cent store (IE stuff with expired copyrights that they can show for free), and their engineering is spectacularly incompetent, to the point where they're frequently off the air or transmitting blank screens for weeks at a time. Their black levels are so crushed that they're often unwatchable even when everything's working.

They haven't even figured out how to connect the two audio channels so they're in phase. :eek:

They're low power, and have a null pointed southward to protect Channel 8 in San Diego. They're a difficult catch in south LA county and most of Orange County, especially during the summer.

They're the station that I use to quickly test the relative sensitivity of ATSC tuners. The two oldest tuners in the house can't pick them up at all, while the newest is fairly reliable.

I don't remember any incomplete ads, but I do remember repeated ads too soon.

I checked the DVR recording, and it was the first break after Bruce. The break that followed it contained the same local ads, except complete that time.

I used to work Master Control several years ago. Switched two Superbowls, which thank heaven went off without a hitch. Because of the money involved, it's a high-pressure situation, even though what you have to do locally is minimal.

I suspect a lot of viewers didn't notice a problem, but that break's going to give me PTSD nightmares tonight, I just know it.

I checked the DVR recording, and it was the first break after Bruce. The break that followed it contained the same local ads, except complete that time.

I used to work Master Control several years ago. Switched two Superbowls, which thank heaven went off without a hitch. Because of the money involved, it's a high-pressure situation, even though what you have to do locally is minimal.

I suspect a lot of viewers didn't notice a problem, but that break's going to give me PTSD nightmares tonight, I just know it.I didn't notice. [grin] Just the repeating commercials.

Interesting. A few minutes ago, I had a minute frozen feed and then it resumed (pixelly) for a second. Grr.

4:40 PM PST: Saw my signal strength go down to 11%. Yikes. Weather looks calm and clear outside. Is Mt. Wilson different?

During half-time show, I completely lost my feed twice for like a few minutes. I couldn't get a signal lock at all.

Just now (5:17 PM PST), 29%! Something is wacky!

The weather looks calm and clear outside. Weatherunderground.com says things are clear and quiet. Is there something wacky at Mt. Wilson these days?

Other stations seem OK to me, including KABC7 (50-60% signal strengths), that have been problematic recently.

Of course, KNBC's analog feed is OK and watchable even if it is not perfect clear (always like that -- mostly dots).

--

6:08 PM PST: Half-time and second half are really bad now. :( I saw 5% earlier!FYI. I ran TSReaderLite v2.8.46e for over 36 minutes, saved/exported its technical datas, and attached the HTML file (remove .txt file extension to view it in a Web browser). I had 59 Continuity errors. Sheesh. :(

And a weird thing happened earlier after the game and during Office episode, but I am not sure if it is related. My dad's old Dell Optiplex PC's DWL120+ AirPlus 22Mbps Wireless LAN USB Adapter had problems connecting to my old Linksys 802.11b WAP11. I had to disable and re-enabled the adapter, in the updated Windows 2000 SP4, to connect. No problems after that. MacBook Pro had no problems.

Here are two old photograph/photo. of the view from my upstair place: http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/3043/outsideviewiw8.jpg facing the mountains. The DB2 bowtie antenna (http://www.antennasdirect.com/DB2_Indoor_antenna.html from 11/2005) is on the right side in the back of this room (not shown). It does not face the window, but faces the wall on the right of the window because of the major signal loss when the window is closed (was told it was because of the new coating/protection(?) to keep heat out during the heat waves).

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&saddr=91745&daddr=Mount+Wilson,+CA&sll=34.197818,-118.087149&sspn=0.109042,0.115356&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=11&om=1 (city) ... and view the maps for aerial if that helps. All the buildings and stuff are bottom of the hills and mountains. I noticed a lot of those roof antennae on houses below my hills. I saw very few roof antennae in my neighborhood on the hill slope.

FYI, I ran TSReader Lite again overnight for about five hours. I had 416 continous errors with KNBC4. SNR was in 20s. :(

I hope those help more. :)

--

2/3/2009 6:41 AM PST:

Nice. Last night's Heroes episode was pretty much perfect (didn't check for the issues during commercial/advertisement/spot breaks rgiyfg). No signal losses like the last two days, especially on Sunday.

I also recorded tonight's Chuck 3D episode, but don't know if its recording was good too. I will follow-up if it has problems.

Interesting. A few minutes ago, I had a minute frozen feed and then it resumed (pixelly) for a second. Grr.

4:40 PM PST: Saw my signal strength go down to 11%. Yikes. Weather looks calm and clear outside. Is Mt. Wilson different?

During half-time show, I completely lost my feed twice for like a few minutes. I couldn't get a signal lock at all.

Just now (5:17 PM PST), 29%! Something is wacky!

The weather looks calm and clear outside. Weatherunderground.com says things are clear and quiet. Is there something wacky at Mt. Wilson these days?

Other stations seem OK to me, including KABC7 (50-60% signal strengths), that have been problematic recently.

Of course, KNBC's analog feed is OK and watchable even if it is not perfect clear (always like that -- mostly dots).

--

6:08 PM PST: Half-time and second half are really bad now. :( I saw 5% earlier!

I had the same problem during the superbowl. And at other times. Seems to be wind for me I think. Santa ana conditions. Even if its not windy in my area, it affects the reception. Will get 100% and then it will drop out to 0, and then go right back up. Annoying.

I had the same problem during the superbowl. And at other times. Seems to be wind for me I think. Santa ana conditions. Even if its not windy in my area, it affects the reception. Will get 100% and then it will drop out to 0, and then go right back up. Annoying.Hmm, I checked Mt. Wilson's location (http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=mount%20wilson&wuSelect=WEATHER ) on Super Bowl day. I didn't see any high numbers of wind speeds. It was like 1mph/calm or something.

Where are you located?

On a good day, all channels except for 40 (KTBN) come in just fine.

When there's rain, wind, or brush fires, KABC (7) or KCOP (13) disappear for a couple days at a time. When it rained pretty good about a month ago, we lost three more, but I forget which ones.

KCET (50) has gone the way of 7 and 13 after I raised the rooftop antenna about 3 feet recently. Everything else has been the same.

Question - will this be any different when 7 and 13 switch back to their VHF channels?

LA VHF to test digital tonight on channel 7



KABC-DT will be testing their digital transmitter overnight

02:12 - After a :30 second explanatory announcement, KABC will sign off
channel 7 analog and channel 53 digital.
02:13 (approx. ) KABC will sign on channel 7 digital (with regular
programming).
02:30 (approx.) Channel seven digital will sign off then analog 7 and
digital 53 will resume operation.

The test will conclude at approximately 2:30am

Please post on the post any reception reports.

Thanks


Disclaimer: I do not work for KABC/ABC or represent them.

KABC-DT will be testing their digital transmitter overnight

02:12 - After a :30 second explanatory announcement, KABC will sign off
channel 7 analog and channel 53 digital.
02:13 (approx. ) KABC will sign on channel 7 digital (with regular
programming).
02:30 (approx.) Channel seven digital will sign off then analog 7 and
digital 53 will resume operation.


What is the purpose of these tests ... for KABC to test their equipment, or for people like us to test our equipment?

Both. They need to make sure the digital transmitter actually transmits and that it can be received.

LA VHF to test digital tonight on channel 7



KABC-DT will be testing their digital transmitter overnight

02:12 - After a :30 second explanatory announcement, KABC will sign off
channel 7 analog and channel 53 digital.
02:13 (approx. ) KABC will sign on channel 7 digital (with regular
programming).
02:30 (approx.) Channel seven digital will sign off then analog 7 and
digital 53 will resume operation.

The test will conclude at approximately 2:30am

Please post on the post any reception reports.

Thanks


Disclaimer: I do not work for KABC/ABC or represent them.

Hmm! I should set my VCR (analog still) and HDTV tuner to record for kicks!

They haven't even figured out how to connect the two audio channels so they're in phase. :eek:

I thought they did this on purpose to get "fake stereo." KDOC channel 56 used to do this a lot.

Incidentally 8.1's secondary audio channel is a simulcast of FM station KZPO from Visalia, CA. It's an oldies nostalgia format, '50s and '60s pop music, not necessarily rock, but not devoid of rock either. The music is great but with the reversed audio channels the sound quality is pretty bad. I wonder what is the targeted demographic for this audio channel? The elderly lady in those DTV public service announcements?!

KCET (50) has gone the way of 7 and 13 after I raised the rooftop antenna about 3 feet recently. Everything else has been the same.


ch 50 is KOCE. Did you mean KOCE or KCET (28)? For me KOCE is rock solid, but KCET (28) is quite troublesome. Incidentally I too raised my antenna about 3 feet recently, and that also, unexpectedly worsened reception on KCET (28).

ch 50 is KOCE. Did you mean KOCE or KCET (28)? For me KOCE is rock solid, but KCET (28) is quite troublesome. Incidentally I too raised my antenna about 3 feet recently, and that also, unexpectedly worsened reception on KCET (28).
For me with an indoor DB2 bowtie antenna in an upstair room and less than 20 miles away from transmitters (NW; 323-324 degrees heading on the compass):
KCET (28) = 100%
KOCE (50) = 75%
KLCS (58) = 16% (watchable when I checked for a minute)

I believe these were the same in the past, but I rarely watch them. All stations are fine on analog (going to miss it :().

Hmm! I should set my VCR (analog still) and HDTV tuner to record for kicks!
Unless it's somehow already in channel memory, you'll have to RESCAN after the switch.

Unless it's somehow already in channel memory, you'll have to RESCAN after the switch.Oh yeah. Funny, I woke up before the test times from my passing out on bed. Sure, I was tired but this is a test for me! Here is what I saw:

Old VCR with analog feed = blue screen of death? :P OK, it's normal. ;)
Analog TV feed on my 15+ years old CRT TV: Pure static =)

PC's HDTV tuner on ch. 53 before rescanning: http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/3357/beforetestns6.jpg (a warning message about the test) and http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/2177/changedfrozennk5.jpg (channel switched; frozen feed)

HDTV on ch. 7 after rescanning twice: NOTHING! Well, I couldn't find KABC in the list and manually tried each unnamed one (e.g,. "Service #"). What's wrong? :(

I saved/exported my raw scanned channels, with technical datas, to CSV and INI (both are text formats) in my post FYI. Used default settings in DVB Viewer Pro v4 (tried both frequency and range scan types):
Scan Frequency: 57,000 (2)
Scan Range: 809,000 (70)

On my third attempt, I got KABC7 on its old digital 53 and analog 7 (after 2:30 AM PST and about 50% signal strength). :( I think it failed? Or did it only fail for me?

I am using the same old DB2 bowtie antenna (untouched).

LA VHF to test digital tonight on channel 7

I was able to receive KABC-DT on channel 7 with a ChannelMaster 4228 in the attic. The tuner reported a weaker signal than the UHF 53 signal, but then the CM antenna is one of the best UHF antenna and not designed for VHF, so the VHF gain would be less than UHF.

Regards

ch 50 is KOCE. Did you mean KOCE or KCET (28)? For me KOCE is rock solid, but KCET (28) is quite troublesome. Incidentally I too raised my antenna about 3 feet recently, and that also, unexpectedly worsened reception on KCET (28).

Sorry, I meant KOCE. I always get those confused.

Both 28 and 50 were rock solid until I raised the antenna. 28 is just as good now, but 50 took a dump. In fact, 50 is completely gone right now.

Sorry, I meant KOCE. I always get those confused.

Both 28 and 50 were rock solid until I raised the antenna. 28 is just as good now, but 50 took a dump. In fact, 50 is completely gone right now.Maybe we need an automated vertical antenna mover too. :P Rise and lower outdoor antenna when needed. Do they even exist? I assume they're slow too. :(

I was able to receive KABC-DT on channel 7 with a ChannelMaster 4228 in the attic. The tuner reported a weaker signal than the UHF 53 signal, but then the CM antenna is one of the best UHF antenna and not designed for VHF, so the VHF gain would be less than UHF.Wow, you were up too. :D On my side, I got nothing. I posted my detailed results earlier. :(

I watched the KABC test.

The signal meter held at 90% the entire time. Usually, it's 50-60%. I hope it remains this strong come February 17th.

I watched the KABC test.

The signal meter held at 90% the entire time. Usually, it's 50-60%. I hope it remains this strong come February 17th.Interesting. That's a good news for me if I get that type of improvement.

For all those who saw KABC on digital 7 channel, did you see its KABC in its channel name/info. in your tuner/software?

I thought they did this on purpose to get "fake stereo." KDOC channel 56 used to do this a lot.

They might re-EQ the two channels for fake stereo, but that's not what KFLA has. They've got mono, 180 degrees out of phase. The reason this is awful (aside from what it sounds like) is that it cancels out when mixed to mono. Folks watching KFLA on mono equipment are getting practically silence.

Our reception of KFLA here in central OC has taken a dump over the last few days. It's there, but too broken up to follow. It appears to be the usual interference from San Diego, which I understand won't be going away anytime soon since that station is licensed to Tijuana.

For me with an indoor DB2 bowtie antenna in an upstair room and less than 20 miles away from transmitters (NW; 323-324 degrees heading on the compass):
KCET (28) = 100%
KOCE (50) = 75%
KLCS (58) = 16% (watchable when I checked for a minute)

I believe these were the same in the past, but I rarely watch them. All stations are fine on analog (going to miss it :().

To help improve your digital reception, go to the following website for receiving strategies:

http://blogs.consumerreports.org/electronics/2008/02/how-to-use-a-co.html

I watched the KABC test.

The signal meter held at 90% the entire time. Usually, it's 50-60%. I hope it remains this strong come February 17th.

Let's hope these differences hold true for the other stations that are moving down in frequency. I have no real problem with KABC which is solid at 90 - 100%, but KTTV is acceptable at about 50% in favorable weather, and disappears with strong winds or rain, and KCOP is always impossible. Let's also hope that KCET improves dramatically when it moves down from 59 to 28.

Let's hope these differences hold true for the other stations that are moving down in frequency. I have no real problem with KABC which is solid at 90 - 100%, but KTTV is acceptable at about 50% in favorable weather, and disappears with strong winds or rain, and KCOP is always impossible. Let's also hope that KCET improves dramatically when it moves down from 59 to 28.I know the pain. :( Which antenna type and how fare are you from those transmitters?

On alt.tech.hdtv newsgroup, I got this reply about my this morning's KABC digital test: "Bowties, in my experience, don't do well below VHF channel 10 or so. Rabbit ears might be better, turned to recieve. Channel 7 is subject to multipath more than the UHF channel would be; that might have locked you out. What works for analog does not have to work for digital, always."

I thought channel 7 was supposed to be good on bowties. I know its analog 7 is fine (clear) [same with simple rabbit ears].

I am using the same old DB2 bowtie antenna (untouched).

Your bowtie is a UHF antenna. KABC-DT was testing their VHF digital signal on channel 7. So you need a high channel (7-13)VHF antenna in addition to your Bowtie. OR the old combo antenna that had elements for both VHF and UHF.

Your bowtie is a UHF antenna. KABC-DT was testing their VHF digital signal on channel 7. So you need a high channel (7-13)VHF antenna in addition to your Bowtie. OR the old combo antenna that had elements for both VHF and UHF.Hmm, I thought UHF is 7 and upward? So far, two people said this antenna will be insufficient for the digital changeover. :(

Which small indoor antenna should I get (in my upstair room -- can't put outside and attic -- do have a high desk shelf)? I will probably get it on the day of digital changeover or after it started so I can test it and be able to return it when needed. Also easy to hook up and assemble since I have multiple physical disabilities. :(

Does antennaweb and tvfool have updated datas with the change over? Or do I have to wait until the day (or after)? I recalled they said I am almost 20 miles and 323-324 degrees heading on compass. Others are 79 and 61 degrees at 38 and 54 miles.

UHF is 14-69. Upper-VHF is 7-13. Lower-VHF is 2-6.

- Trip

UHF is 14-69. Upper-VHF is 7-13. Lower-VHF is 2-6.Ah, different levels of VHF. I didn't know that makes a difference. :( Any recommendations on small and cheap, indoor antenna should I get? Or will any do with VHF and UHF support? I still have my old rabbit ears that was included with my old CRT TV I could try. I recalled it was too weak for many stations when I first got a HDTV tuner back in late 2005.

Ah, different levels of VHF. I didn't know that makes a difference. :( .

VHF was 2-13 UNTIL the digital conversion. At first all digital was to be UHF. Then some where along the transition road they added 7-13 VHF to the digital transition. Thats when we got upper VHF 7-13 and lower 2-6 VHF. The lower VHF channels will be re-assigned, most likely for voice.

VHF was 2-13 UNTIL the digital conversion. At first all digital was to be UHF. Then some where along the transition road they added 7-13 VHF to the digital transition. Thats when we got upper VHF 7-13 and lower 2-6 VHF. The lower VHF channels will be re-assigned, most likely for voice.No wonder!! I thought my antenna was OK! I got confused with the analog datas. Grr!!!!!! :(

OK, now I need to find out what antenna to get. :( Any suggestions are welcomed. I forgot to mention I have these stores near by: Wal-Mart, Best Buy, Sears, Target, Fry's Electronics, Radio Shack, etc.

Question: Does DB4 antenna have the same problem?

VHF was 2-13 UNTIL the digital conversion. At first all digital was to be UHF. Then some where along the transition road they added 7-13 VHF to the digital transition. Thats when we got upper VHF 7-13 and lower 2-6 VHF. The lower VHF channels will be re-assigned, most likely for voice.
Not quite. Always has been lower VHF (Ch 2-6) and upper VHF (Ch 7-13). This is based on frequency, lower basically 55-88 MHz and upper 175-216 MHz. Quite a spread so antennas are somewhat different in size and ability to receive and the propogation is different. FM radio is between Ch 6 and Ch 7 (reason VHF TV antennas do FM radio also). Ch 14 starts at 470MHz. The general dsignation is 3-30Mhz HF, 30-300MHz VHF, 300-3000MHz UHF, etc. (and also designations for lower frequencies).

/Dan

VHF was 2-13 UNTIL the digital conversion. At first all digital was to be UHF. Then some where along the transition road they added 7-13 VHF to the digital transition. Thats when we got upper VHF 7-13 and lower 2-6 VHF. The lower VHF channels will be re-assigned, most likely for voice.

Um... digital TV when first proposed in the 80's was for all-UHF, but that never went anywhere. The original plan was for digital TV to use channels 7-59, and then the big owners complained, so it became 2-51.

Low-VHF isn't being reassigned to anything. There have been proposals to do so and the FCC has shot them down every time.

- Trip

LA VHF to test digital tonight on channel 7


I've been waiting for a test to be announced for months, but I was in the desert last night. Hopefully, they will repeat this tonight...

As for bow-ties, the ones I've tested (CM's), do a lot better towards 13 than 7. If LA only had 9-13, bow-ties would probably be ok in many areas.

I've been waiting for a test to be announced for months, but I was in the desert last night. Hopefully, they will repeat this tonight...

As for bow-ties, the ones I've tested (CM's), do a lot better towards 13 than 7. If LA only had 9-13, bow-ties would probably be ok in many areas.Ah, now I have to find a better one to do both UHF and VHF. Grr! I hope L.A. stations delay until June. [grin]

NBC has advised that KNBC and other locally owned stations (KVEA, KWHY) will honor the delay, IF the market as a whole doesn't decide to end analog before June 12th.

Technically, June 12th isn't the law yet, but I can't imagine the President not signing it.

I have heard rumors that ending on-time was being considered, but it seems that San Diego and LA are going to part ways as respects the handling of the delay (SD to end analog, except the Mexican stations, and LA hanging on to analog).

As for KCBS/KCAL, they won't confirm anything, but they did advise that KCAL won't be performing any DTV tests on 9 in the near future. It sounds like they will be hanging on as well.

LA hanging on to analog

I also saw News Corp. who owns Fox say that they would not be shutting down their Analog signals in their larger markets including Los Angeles.

I assume the other networks won't want to give up ratings points to Fox so they'll keep their analog signals going as well.

TIM

It will be interesting to see whether KCET and KOCE will observe the delay or move early. (KLCS will be staying put on ch. 41.) It was pointed out that the delay will especially be a burden for PBS stations because of their more limited budgets and the high cost of operating both a digital and an analog transmitter.

Ah, now I have to find a better one to do both UHF and VHF. Grr! I hope L.A. stations delay until June. [grin]
The Silver Sensor is one of the best indoor antennas out there. Amazon sells one here (http://www.amazon.com/Philips-PHDTV1-Silver-Digital-Antenna/dp/B0007XDI54/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1233854080&sr=8-1) for $22. It is also sold under the Zenith brand. I have one and pull in around 60 digital stations with it at the moment. Keep in mind they are rather directional so you have to point them correctly and at the right angle.
There is also an amplified version of this antenna from Terk, that costs more. However, many people on this board have reported that it is not as good as the unamplified one from Zenith/Philips.

Rudy

The Silver Sensor is one of the best indoor antennas out there. Amazon sells one here (http://www.amazon.com/Philips-PHDTV1-Silver-Digital-Antenna/dp/B0007XDI54/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1233854080&sr=8-1) for $22. It is also sold under the Zenith brand. I have one and pull in around 60 digital stations with it at the moment. Keep in mind they are rather directional so you have to point them correctly and at the right angle.
There is also an amplified version of this antenna from Terk, that costs more. However, many people on this board have reported that it is not as good as the unamplified one from Zenith/Philips.

Rudy

That Silver Sensor is UHF only, and won't do him much good for the VHFs he's anticipating trouble with.

KLCS will be staying put on ch. 41.

...but when will they shut down their analog signal on UHF 58?

--------------

Any more tests of digital signals on VHF scheduled? Missed out on the KABC test, but strangely my screwy Hisense box now has two sets of 7.1-7.3. :p

TIM