As I was beginning to suspect, the analog station I am receiving on ch 45 is not KLAU-LP, but rather KSKJ in Van Nuys. Apparently it was formerly on ch 38. It has been playing mostly old movies, etc., and there is some interference from another station, probably KLAU. You can read more about it at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KSKP-CA

You know, it's kind of funny. I thought I was getting KSKJ, but when I went to the channel today, it was clear enough to see in the upper right corner of the screen that they had a bug up. And sure enough the actual station I'm getting on 45 is KLAU-LP.

Sounds like you should get cable then :)
.......
Wow, that's probably the worst advice, I've read here yet. Hope you were joking.:eek:
My balcony faces the correct direction. I know there is other apartments in front of me. I have tried at the very edge and I get the same signal. I have the C5 on top of the C4. They are on a 5' pole about 2 feet above my balcony. I would guess that the C5 is about 18' above the ground. I have not used a compass yet. That was my next thing to try. I know my UHF antenna is perfectly aimed because I have very good signal and I do notice a signal lose just by moving it a few degrees. Another building of my apartment complex has a huge VHF and UHF antenna that I know would work. The VHF looks like it is about 100" long with a separate UHF antenna. It is too far for me to tap into though.

What about this antenna for both UHF and High VHF in my area? How big is this antenna?

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=CM2016&xzoom=Large#xview
Just wanted to point out that you may have to point your VHF antenna in a slightly different angle than your UHF one. At least this is what I'm finding to be true for me.
Another thing to try would be to raise the antenna up or to lower it down to see if you can nail the wave in its sweet spot that way.

Good Luck.
Rudy

Here we go again - found KTTV11 and KCOP13 both completely gone last night after 10:00PM, and can pick up only shreds of signal this morning, from Brentwood.

Here we go again - found KTTV11 and KCOP13 both completely gone last night after 10:00PM, and can pick up only shreds of signal this morning, from Brentwood.Seems decent for me. Mid 50% for me on a DB2 bowtie antenna.

...Likely you may have to hold out and see if the stations request more power and the FCC agrees. You may want to complain to each station and the FCC. It doesn't seem likely that the FCC allocated the proper amount of power so the viewer 50+ miles away with non-roof mounted antennas would be able to receive the broadcasts...

I also think the stations themselves were more concerned with lowering their electric bills and keeping their original channel number than satisfying their viewers. Wouldn't it have just been easier for them to shut down their analog transmitters and give their VHF frequencies back to the government and just keep the digital transmitters on their UHF frequencies going?

You are absolutely right that the FCC did not allocate nearly enough power for some stations, in particular KTTV and KCOP. Not only is it inadequate for distant viewers, but also for a great many viewers who are much closer to Mt. Wilson, but do not have a perfect LOS to the transmitters, or who must use rabbit ears indoors.

The problem, however is not the use of VHF. In fact, I believe that VHF is much better suited for DTV than UHF, especially the higher UHF frequencies. This is because VHF is much more "forgiving" of obstructions in the LOS.

In my location about 30 miles from Mt. Wilson for example, before the move to VHF, KTTV was only watchable in very favorable weather conditions, and would completely disappear for days at a time during windy conditions and in rain. And I could never receive KCOP-DT! And I am using good rooftop antennas here! Now both come in perfectly 100% of the time, at least so far.

Seems decent for me. Mid 50% for me on a DB2 bowtie antenna.

Really? Still almost entirely dead for me, what's your location?

Really? Still almost entirely dead for me, what's your location?91745. I know a couple weeks ago since the 6/12/2009 day, it was very weak and not lockable for my computer's HDTV tuner cards, but no problems with my DTV Pal converter box.

You know, it's kind of funny. I thought I was getting KSKJ, but when I went to the channel today, it was clear enough to see in the upper right corner of the screen that they had a bug up. And sure enough the actual station I'm getting on 45 is KLAU-LP.

KLAU may have been off the air for a bit. They aren't the most reliable cowboys in the posse, although for several months now they've been doing a lot better.

I guarantee that you will not catch them doing "regular" programming, since they are running DVDs on a loop, unsupervised. (I've seen them sitting on the menu for days at a time.)

I'm still getting KBEH1 (63) here in central Orange County. The "Told You So" show, now in its 3rd big week. At this point, if I was at one of these nightlight stations, the urge to do something "creative" to this show would be overwhelming. I wonder what kind of ratings it's pulling? (Don't laugh - somebody out there IS faithfully watching every single episode and enjoying the heck out of it.)

Here we go again - found KTTV11 and KCOP13 both completely gone last night after 10:00PM, and can pick up only shreds of signal this morning, from Brentwood.

Ok, good, so it's not just me. I'm in Sherman Oaks, was getting great reception across the board on all OTA with my RCA mulit-directional. Then I noticed the other day 11-1 and 13-1 were out. I'm using TiVo and both peak in the mid-30s, not enough to register a picture.

I'm also having spotty problems with 7-1, though I can get in the 70s in an optimal spot.

So did something weird happen when they did the switch over?

Here are my confusing (to me) results since the changeover.

I live in Topanga some 30 miles from Mt Wilson. Antenna.org says I cannot get any UHF and that I need a large outdoor antenna for the four VHF stations. TVFool says I need extreme measure to get UHF.

I have an 8' UHF antenna on a most on the roof with a preamp. I did not think I would ever need a VHF antenna so never set one up. Before the changeover I got all stations except Channel 2, which at a strength of 58-60 came in about 20% of the time.

After the changeover I get 2, 4, and 5 at 100%. Channel 9 comes in at 60. 7, 11, and 13 were zero. Last night I did another scan and now 7 comes in at 60.

Why, given where I am located, can I get 9 and now 7? Did they increase the power on 7 after the changeover? My tuner is a Dish 722 DVR.

I was going to add a dedicated VHF antenna but now I am thinking of waiting to see if 11 and 13 will be fixed. Adding a new VHF antenna is a big deal as there is no room on the mast. I could replace the existing UHF with a combination VHF/UHF but am reluctant to replace something that ain't broke. In the meantime I can get all the OAT stations I want on satellite but the quality is not as good as OAT.

You're about half as far, and in another direction.

I wonder if there's a directionality problem here as much as distance, is that even a possibility?

Ok, good, so it's not just me. I'm in Sherman Oaks, was getting great reception across the board on all OTA with my RCA mulit-directional. Then I noticed the other day 11-1 and 13-1 were out. I'm using TiVo and both peak in the mid-30s, not enough to register a picture.

I'm also having spotty problems with 7-1, though I can get in the 70s in an optimal spot.

So did something weird happen when they did the switch over?

Well yeah, they switched the frequences from UHF band down to their old VHF frequencies.

I've been having a little trouble with 7, on and off.

But I'm pretty sure KTTV (who also own KCOP now), are having transmitter problems as well.

Well yeah, they switched the frequences from UHF band down to their old VHF frequencies.

I've been having a little trouble with 7, on and off.

But I'm pretty sure KTTV (who also own KCOP now), are having transmitter problems as well.I thought KTTV and KCOPI fixed their transmitter issues as of middle of last week. Is it still not fixed fully?

Watching Angels@D'backs on MLB.tv with the Angels/KCOP feed in San Diego County and couldn't help but notice watching online that the game on my computer, KCOP is showing it in 16:9 format. Can anyone in the LA DMA confirm this on their TV? I know for the longest time KCOP for whatever reason hasn't been showing the Angels in HD.

Watching Angels@D'backs on MLB.tv with the Angels/KCOP feed in San Diego County and couldn't help but notice watching online that the game on my computer, KCOP is showing it in 16:9 format. Can anyone in the LA DMA confirm this on their TV? I know for the longest time KCOP for whatever reason hasn't been showing the Angels in HD.

Right this second, KCOP OTA is showing it in standard definition pillarboxed 4x3, apparently pulled from a rather noisy analog source.

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/3724/snapshot20090628141801.th.jpg (http://img29.imageshack.us/i/snapshot20090628141801.jpg/)

Watching Angels@D'backs on MLB.tv with the Angels/KCOP feed in San Diego County and couldn't help but notice watching online that the game on my computer, KCOP is showing it in 16:9 format. Can anyone in the LA DMA confirm this on their TV? I know for the longest time KCOP for whatever reason hasn't been showing the Angels in HD.KCOP is showing in SD format to me: http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/8105/snapshot20090628144401.jpg ... :( Did it ever show in 16:9 before or just this game? I don't watch KCOP anymore ever since Star Trek ended.

Hi All,
I've been reading this forum since the "great switch" and I'd thought I'd share my experience from out here in Riverside near UCR. I've been happily watching digital TV for the last 3 years with little problems. Before the switch my only complaint was not being able to get 13 at all and I learned to live without it, but living without good reception of 7-13 might be too much as those are my favorite stations.

After much fiddling and messing with my two HDTV's and their different antenna's this is the best I've been able to come up with.
ch / (before) / (after)
2 / (ok) / (good)
4 / (good) / (excellent)
5 / (good) / (excellent)
7 / (excellent) / (poor)
9 / (excellent) / (no signal)
11 / (good) / (poor)
13 / (no signal) / (poor)
28 / (excellent) / (excellent)
30 / (excellent) / (excellent)
50 / (good) / (good)
56 / (excellent) / (excellent)
58 / (excellent) / (excellent)

My Radioshack antenna I have now is worthless for 7-13 and my RCA is barely picking up 7, 11, & 13, while not getting anything from 9. I don't know if it's just good atmosphere now that I'm getting 7,11 and 13 or if my fiddling did the trick. Hopefully these stations will figure something out soon.

Do the stations and the FCC know of the problems?

Do the stations and the FCC know of the problems?

What problems? People with inadequate indoor antennas not being able to pick up stations from behind trees and mountains? :mad:

The FCC is aware that some stations' VHF assignments are not replicating their old analog contours, and is allowing some stations to boost power or move back to UHF while things get sorted out. However, LA is not one of the markets severely affected by this, and AFAIK none of the stations has received or even asked for permission to temporarily up the juice.

If you're waiting for the stations to solve your reception issues for you, then you should settle in for a long wait.

Sounds like you're in good shape then.

Personally, I don't think it matters which antenna you buy, as long as it's mounted as high as possible and is designed for VHF *and* UHF. The latter is very important too...some antennas are VHF or UHF only.

As I recall, you're 10 or 15 miles from Mount Wilson, so range isn't an issue. Try shopping for antennas at Fry's Electronics.

Don't pay more than $50. Channel Master and Winegard are good brands. It doesn't need to be a huge antenna either.

Thanks desertdude!

I installed a channel master that I bought at frys. It on my roof about 6 feet up. I am happy to report that I am getting all the stations (well, many many). Thanks for all your help. I am getting rid of directv now. Just live off OTA DTV ;)

Really? Still almost entirely dead for me, what's your location?

11 and 13 are OK for me in Santa Monica 90403. 13 is my weakest channel.

Maybe its your box. Mine has a problem with channel 2-1. My Tivax is hooked up to a DTA-5000. Many times it will not see 2-1 when first turned on. An hour or two later it seems to recognize/acquire 2-1 and automatically change the channel to it. Normally I will see 85% signal strength with a SNR of 28 for channel 2-1 so I do not think it is a reception problem.

Anybody know what happened to channel 4.3? I just noticed it go off air after the transition.

Anybody know what happened to channel 4.3? I just noticed it go off air after the transition.What was on 4.3? I only remember 4.1, 4.2, and 4.4.

news raw knbc

I think it has been off for a while.

news raw knbc

I think it has been off for a while.Oh yeah, good call. I noticed too. I remember they were talking about getting rid of Weather channel, but that didn't happen!

actually, I think it was on 4.4 before universal sports then it got combined with weather plus on 4.2 so there may not have been any 4.3 sub channel.

actually, I think it was on 4.4 before universal sports then it got combined with weather plus on 4.2 so there may not have been any 4.3 sub channel.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KNBC says:

"News RAW, a news wildfeeds (weekdays daytime/early evening) and NBC Plus, a computer loop of regional weather information (all other hours)"

Watching Angels@D'backs on MLB.tv with the Angels/KCOP feed in San Diego County and couldn't help but notice watching online that the game on my computer, KCOP is showing it in 16:9 format. Can anyone in the LA DMA confirm this on their TV? I know for the longest time KCOP for whatever reason hasn't been showing the Angels in HD.

KCOP hasn't shown a game in HD, ever. Whatever you are getting is an upconverted blessing because it looked like complete crap from where I sat.

KCOP hasn't shown a game in HD, ever. Whatever you are getting is an upconverted blessing because it looked like complete crap from where I sat.That's lame. Is KCOP cheap or something? :( I know KTTV airs their sports in HD.

Anybody know what happened to channel 4.3? I just noticed it go off air after the transition.

To my knowledge, there never has been a ch. 4.3. Also KNBC did not move on June 12. They are still on ch. 36.

That's lame. Is KCOP cheap or something? :( I know KTTV airs their sports in HD.
Well, when FSN shows Angels games they are in HD so it's not a matter of the HD cameras not being around since the production is exactly the same. I'd lean toward KCOP running on the cheap. KCOP is the bastard step-child of KTTV. Channel 13 basically gets Fox11's scraps.

I didn't pay close attention to KCOP 13 because it was usable before and immediately after the DTV switchover. I just checked now and it's showing 75%. I'm using an attic mounted Recoton powered VHF/UHF rabbit ear antenna with a ChannelVision CVT-15PIA preamp presently, but I want to change back to my CM-4228 also attic mounted. I'm hoping that the 4228 will be good enough at 221 MHz (KTTV-11). It worked fine for 7, 9 and 13, after the DTV switchover, just not 11. The Recoton rabbit ears did not do any better, but it was worth a shot, as the 4228 is a UHF only antenna, with some high VHF capability.

O.O.

Major dissapointment here. The attic mounted 4228 still cannot pickup KTTV-11. Still no issue with 7, 9, 13 though. The Recoton powered rabbit ears picks up 11 great, but after a major scan-fest 4228 Vs. Recoton on the 3 tuners I have, I conclude that the 4228 performs much better in the UHF band and the Recoton works marginally better in the high VHF band. One interesting anomally I discovered that I can't really explain is that maximum VHF signal for both the Recoton and 4228 is with the antennas NOT oriented to the ideal 331 degrees for my location, while UHF signal seems to maximize with the ideal 331 degrees heading. In any case, it was not surprised that an 8 bay UHF antenna turned in better UHF performance. What was surprising is that the Recoton powered rabbit ears did that much better on VHF. I say that because from the data I've seen, the 4228 has quite respectable hi-VHF performance for a UHF only design.

In the end I joined the 4228 and Recoton through a UHF/VHF splitter operating as a combiner. It worked out prettty well as the "splitter" had a nice coax connector for VHF that mated nicely with the Recoton and it also had a short piece of 300 ohm twinlead for UHF with spade lugs for connecting to the 4228. The final scan showed just what theory predicts, the best of both worlds. The Recoton handles the VHF adequately and the 4228 handles the UHF adequately.

O.O.

KCOP hasn't shown a game in HD, ever. Whatever you are getting is an upconverted blessing because it looked like complete crap from where I sat.

Not only have they not been showing the games in HD on KCOP, the SD picture quality is about the worst I have ever seen. There exists major rainbowing artifacts in the picture. I don't see this in other KCOP programs, but what exactly does KCOP show in HD? Probably only Friday night wrestling if I had to guess, but I've never seen it.

It seems like they could at least show movies and sports widescreen, but they have never responded to my suggestions or complaints.

The Dodgers have high-quality HD on KCAL/9 and the Angels have utter garbage SD on KCOP/13. It's pretty "clear" which team pays more attention to broadcasts.

The Angels seem to want to start their own network instead of lifting a finger to have a quality broadcast on KCOP.

Not only have they not been showing the games in HD on KCOP, the SD picture quality is about the worst I have ever seen. There exists major rainbowing artifacts in the picture. I don't see this in other KCOP programs, but what exactly does KCOP show in HD? Probably only Friday night wrestling if I had to guess, but I've never seen it.

It seems like they could at least show movies and sports widescreen, but they have never responded to my suggestions or complaints.

The Dodgers have high-quality HD on KCAL/9 and the Angels have utter garbage SD on KCOP/13. It's pretty "clear" which team pays more attention to broadcasts.

The Angels seem to want to start their own network instead of lifting a finger to have a quality broadcast on KCOP.Maybe KTTV should air the games in HD instead since they do it with other sports like NFL, NASCAR, MLB, etc. Sheesh!

Maybe KTTV should air the games in HD instead since they do it with other sports like NFL, NASCAR, MLB, etc. Sheesh!

The difference is that KTTV just passes along the national Fox feed. More work would be required for a local only broadcast.

Not only have they not been showing the games in HD on KCOP, the SD picture quality is about the worst I have ever seen. There exists major rainbowing artifacts in the picture. I don't see this in other KCOP programs, but what exactly does KCOP show in HD? Probably only Friday night wrestling if I had to guess, but I've never seen it.
The syndicated run of Everybody Loves Raymond and Seinfeld air in HD but with the latter case of Seinfeld I think it's just cropped 16:9. Everybody Loves Raymond was an HD show for the majority of it's run but it looks pretty washed out on KCOP.

Not only have they not been showing the games in HD on KCOP, the SD picture quality is about the worst I have ever seen. There exists major rainbowing artifacts in the picture. I don't see this in other KCOP programs, but what exactly does KCOP show in HD? Probably only Friday night wrestling if I had to guess, but I've never seen it. I know their movies are in HD. Can't remember if they were good HD quality. I think they were decent for old movies.

Hi everyone.

Post-conversion, my folks by LAX (90045) have been very fortunate to receive every local channel using their new Winegard antenna on a tall mast with a rotor - we're having some trouble with KTLA on one set (Sony), but the other set (Sharp) is fine.

Trouble is, Mom likes KVCR-24 out of Riverside, and with the antenna positioned for Mt. Wilson stations, rescanning favors KBEH 24.1 / MTV3.

I don't think any amount of tweaking or trickery will convince the TV to tune the station without dropping others.

But perhaps, with a separate antenna pointed due east, on a dedicated external tuner, I could capture the signal, and pipe it in via external input to the set. I would like to provide an HD signal to the set, so I'm seeking a tuner that would have HDMI output.

Is there a tuner unit that would make sense for this application?
I see the Samsung SIR-451 on Ebay, and presume it to be a common unit.

Thanks for your advice - and apologies to those who might think this is overkill; Mom and Dad won't buy cable, ever, so one-time costs are acceptable.

Hi everyone.


Trouble is, Mom likes KVCR-24 out of Riverside, and with the antenna positioned for Mt. Wilson stations, rescanning favors KBEH 24.1 / MTV3.



KVCR is on RF26. KBEH is RF24.

Hi All,

I have been using Verizon Fios TV for almost a year now and I've just found
out that my 50" Panasonic Plasma TV has a built-in HD Tuner. I wanted to find out how good is HD off the air so I connected my outdoor antenna that I had installed in the attic for over 15 years and to my surprise I was able to received over 70 channel and many of them with 100% signal strength. My house is about 16 miles from Mt. Wilson according to AntennaWeb.org and suppose to point the antenna 284 degree(Compass Heading). I live in San
Dimas, Ca.
My question is if I can receive Station 2-1, 4-1, 7-1, 9-1, 11-1, 18-1 and many other mostly with 100% reception why can't I receive Station 58 since it's showing the same 284 degree(Compass Heading). Everytime when I switch to 58-1 it freezes up and only show about 15% signal strength, another station that got weak reception is 24-1 but I don't care that much about this station than 58. What can I do to fix this?

Please try 41 (the real channel), your TV should automatically show the virtual no. of 58-1.

Use http://www.tvfool.com to show signal strength with both real and virtual channel no.

Good luck!

11 and 13 are OK for me in Santa Monica 90403. 13 is my weakest channel.

Boogers. Did you happen to look at the channel from Saturday night 10:00PM through Sunday noon?

By evening, I was able to pick up 11 OTA from 90807 (Long Beach), but then this morning it was very marginal there. Right now I'm picking up a very weak but so far watchable signal back here in 90049.

Hi All,
I've been reading this forum since the "great switch" and I'd thought I'd share my experience from out here in Riverside near UCR. I've been happily watching digital TV for the last 3 years with little problems. Before the switch my only complaint was not being able to get 13 at all and I learned to live without it, but living without good reception of 7-13 might be too much as those are my favorite stations.

After much fiddling and messing with my two HDTV's and their different antenna's this is the best I've been able to come up with.
ch / (before) / (after)
2 / (ok) / (good)
4 / (good) / (excellent)
5 / (good) / (excellent)
7 / (excellent) / (poor)
9 / (excellent) / (no signal)
11 / (good) / (poor)
13 / (no signal) / (poor)
28 / (excellent) / (excellent)
30 / (excellent) / (excellent)
50 / (good) / (good)
56 / (excellent) / (excellent)
58 / (excellent) / (excellent)

My Radioshack antenna I have now is worthless for 7-13 and my RCA is barely picking up 7, 11, & 13, while not getting anything from 9. I don't know if it's just good atmosphere now that I'm getting 7,11 and 13 or if my fiddling did the trick. Hopefully these stations will figure something out soon.

I have the exact same signal receptions as you do (before & after) on my Philips directional.

..Trouble is, Mom likes KVCR-24 out of Riverside, and with the antenna positioned for Mt. Wilson stations, rescanning favors KBEH 24.1 / MTV3.

I don't think any amount of tweaking or trickery will convince the TV to tune the station without dropping others.

But perhaps, with a separate antenna pointed due east, on a dedicated external tuner, I could capture the signal, and pipe it in via external input to the set. I would like to provide an HD signal to the set, so I'm seeking a tuner that would have HDMI output.

Is there a tuner unit that would make sense for this application?
I see the Samsung SIR-451 on Ebay, and presume it to be a common unit...



That would be a problem. In my case, I am fortunate in that Mt. Wilson and Riverside are in the same line-of-sight so my antennas are aimed at both. (I understand that the KVCR transmitter is on Box Springs Mountain nearby) In any case, you have the suggested the best solution for your situation. You can purchase a set top box (STB) and connect it to an antenna pointed toward KVCR. Actually, you don't need to go on eBay; Samsung makes a nice little unit, the DTB-H260F that you can get at Best Buy for $180, and it has both HDMI and component outputs.

Boogers. Did you happen to look at the channel from Saturday night 10:00PM through Sunday noon?

By evening, I was able to pick up 11 OTA from 90807 (Long Beach), but then this morning it was very marginal there. Right now I'm picking up a very weak but so far watchable signal back here in 90049.

I just hooked up a McLapp 9.5 X 9 that I am in the process of building. I have not yet built the reflector which is supposed to provides the high-VHF gain. The antenna is just sitting on a table in my apartment. I am able to pick up 7 and 9 but 11 and 13 break up and are pixalated. I am in a single story building surrounded by multi-story buildings. I have no doubt that if roof mounted on my single story apartment (which is surrounded by multi-story bulidings) the unfinished McLapp 9.5 X 9 would be able to pull in 11 and 13 very well.

The syndicated run of Everybody Loves Raymond and Seinfeld air in HD but with the latter case of Seinfeld I think it's just cropped 16:9. Everybody Loves Raymond was an HD show for the majority of it's run but it looks pretty washed out on KCOP.

Seinfeld was shot on film, and when they made the DVDs for the show, every episode was remastered in Hi-Def from the original negatives. It is cropped from the original 4:3 image, but it's not just an upconvert. They did the same with the first few seasons of Raymond before they started shooting in HD.

King Of Queens is also in HD on KCOP, along with a couple of the MyNetworkTV shows (Jail for instance). They also show MyNetwork movies in HD. But they are really hit and miss for HD. Desperate Housewives on weekends is not HD, and I don't think House is either, but I could be wrong about that.

Thanks WWONG for your quick response and thanks for the link to the "tvfool" website. It's showing that station 58-1(41) is within green zone which an indoor antenna is sufficient. But I have a multi-element outdoor Antenna installed in the attic yet I was not able to receive Station 58 is something I could not undetstand. I could receive most of the other stations though:confused:.

Thanks WWONG for your quick response and thanks for the link to the "tvfool" website. It's showing that station 58-1(41) is within green zone which an indoor antenna is sufficient. But I have a multi-element outdoor Antenna installed in the attic yet I was not able to receive Station 58 is something I could not undetstand. I could receive most of the other stations though:confused:.

Try adding it manually, try a rescan, try repositioning the antenna just a wee bit, and if you're using some sort of signal amp, try removing it. Look for sources of local interference, or metallic objects nearby that might be hitting the antenna with reflected signals. And double-check your connections and wiring.

Also consider the possibility that you happened to catch them having technical difficulties. They might be back now.

It's probably something simple - you just have to trouble-shoot until you find it.

Is there a (OTA HD-STB) tuner unit that would make sense for this application?
I see the Samsung SIR-451 on Ebay, and presume it to be a common unit.

HD-STB summary thread (incl links to individual equip threads) is here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=179095
Samsung SIR-451 is third generation with minimal resistance to multipath,
Samsung DTB-H260F is fifth and new ones are fifth or sixth.

Centronics ZAT502 is low cost alternative with HDMI I/F:
http://www.summitsource.com/product_info.php?ref=1&products_id=8167
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1136626

Wow, what a difference a couple of weeks make. Before digital day I only got half of the channels and the best came in at 72. Now I get all channels. A week ago 11 came in weak but now it is my best channel at 92. Channels 7, 9, and 13 are all in the high 70's. Channel 28 was marginal a week ago but now it comes in at only 68 but is solid. My worst channel is 2 which comes in at 66 but is solid.

I live 35 miles from Mt Wilson but have a 2700' peak 3 miles from me directly between Mt Wilson. I use a Winegard 7015 VHF/UHF antenna and a Winegard 8275 VHF/UHF preamp in the attic.

I am extremely happy.

Rick R

Wow, what a difference a couple of weeks make. Before digital day I only got half of the channels and the best came in at 72. Now I get all channels. A week ago 11 came in weak but now it is my best channel at 92. Channels 7, 9, and 13 are all in the high 70's. Channel 28 was marginal a week ago but now it comes in at only 68 but is solid. My worst channel is 2 which comes in at 66 but is solid.

I live 35 miles from Mt Wilson but have a 2700' peak 3 miles from me directly between Mt Wilson. I use a Winegard 7015 VHF/UHF antenna and a Winegard 8275 VHF/UHF preamp in the attic.

I am extremely happy.

Rick R


Excellent! I too noticed a huge improvement after the move, here in the Porter Ranch/Granada Hills area. Prior to the move, I put up a Wingard YA-1713 for VHF, since I previously had only UHF antennas. Before the move I could never get ch 13, and ch 11 only intermittently; now both are solid all the time. Ch 28 is also much better since it moved from ch 59, but it still drops out occasionally in the evenings.

Wow, what a difference a couple of weeks make. Before digital day I only got half of the channels and the best came in at 72. Now I get all channels. A week ago 11 came in weak but now it is my best channel at 92. Channels 7, 9, and 13 are all in the high 70's. Channel 28 was marginal a week ago but now it comes in at only 68 but is solid. My worst channel is 2 which comes in at 66 but is solid.

I live 35 miles from Mt Wilson but have a 2700' peak 3 miles from me directly between Mt Wilson. I use a Winegard 7015 VHF/UHF antenna and a Winegard 8275 VHF/UHF preamp in the attic.

I am extremely happy.

Rick R


I'm happy for you...It is the total opposite for me. Before the change, I got EVERY station 57 miles away with either the Square Shooter 1000 or my new C4. After the switch, I only get the UHF stations (maybe a little better but it doesn't matter). I get ZERO High VHF stations. I went out an bought the C5 ("engineered for High VHF only") and I barely get signals on 9-13 (nothing on 7). Channel 13 is almost watchable and 9-11 is maybe about 1% of the time. This is also with the Channelmaster 7777.

Since the switch, has anyone been able to get ch 13?

Can't get Ch 13 at all.

Ch 11 about 2X.

Ch 9 & 7 difficult to get but possible.

Ch 2 & all the other channels come in better now after the switch.

I've used 2 different indoor antennas on my Samsung 450 & get 70 to 80 channels regularly, but still the same problem.

Since the switch, has anyone been able to get ch 13?

Of course.

That's lame. Is KCOP cheap or something? :( I know KTTV airs their sports in HD.And I really got mad one day when the commercial for the Angels game 1/2 hour before it started was 16:9 and then the game was 4:3. /Dan

The Angels seem to want to start their own network instead of lifting a finger to have a quality broadcast on KCOP. I want to blame KCOP since the Angels are on FSN-W HD for something like 133 games this year without problem. /Dan

I am coming to the conclusion that my Winegard 7015 has a VHF section that is superior to its UHF section. All of the channels 7, 9, 11, and 13 are between 75 and 92. All of the UHF channels are 66-74.

On second thought I suspect that the VHF frequencies are better at bending over that 2700' peak if front of me. That is more likely the reason I get the VHF so great.

Rick R

On second thought I suspect that the VHF frequencies are better at bending over that 2700' peak if front of me. That is more likely the reason I get the VHF so great.

I don't remember what your TV Fool plot looks like. I would be interested in seeing it if you don't mind sharing.

VHF seems to be working better towards the West of Mt. Wilson vs. the South. KABC/KCOP seemed to be almost universally bad before the transition, but it wasn't a UHF problem.

If/when KTTV/KCOP go to 115/120kW, perhaps then they will be on par with the strongest UHF stations, at least where I am.

I have a YA1713 as well, which is a great upper VHF antenna. I have a CM4228 for UHF, but even the Terk HDTVi gets good UHF results.

Try adding it manually, try a rescan, try repositioning the antenna just a wee bit, and if you're using some sort of signal amp, try removing it. Look for sources of local interference, or metallic objects nearby that might be hitting the antenna with reflected signals. And double-check your connections and wiring.

It's probably something simple - you just have to trouble-shoot until you find it.

Thanks "narkspud" for your response. I might try reposition the antenna a bit
see if it will help. But before I do that can anyone tell me if I had installed
the antenna correctly? I have attahced the picture of my antenna that I had
installed in the attic(see attached). The left side of the picture is pointing at
Mt. Wilson. I am not sure which side is head/tail? TIA

Didn't all the earlier DTV transition ads tell everyone to get UHF antennae? I've been an early adopter of DTV and feel utterly screwed by the transition. Half the channels are very weak, or not receiveable anymore. My wife is really pissed.

This debacle must be a boon for Cable TV companies.

But before I do that can anyone tell me if I had installed the antenna correctly? I have attahced the picture of my antenna that I had installed in the attic(see attached). The left side of the picture is pointing at Mt. Wilson. I am not sure which side is head/tail? TIA

It appears to be correct. The narrowest part always points toward the transmitter.

It appears to be correct. The narrowest part always points toward the transmitter.

Thanks, jmonier. Now I can try reposition it a bit see if I can get better
reception on Station 58.

I have lost all reception of KTTV, channel 11. It's no great loss but it bugs me to lose a formerly strong channel. How do I get it back? I tried manually entering it to no avail (it is channel 11, both real and virtual).

I have lost all reception of KTTV, channel 11. It's no great loss but it bugs me to lose a formerly strong channel. How do I get it back? I tried manually entering it to no avail (it is channel 11, both real and virtual).Do you have VHF for your antenna?

Didn't all the earlier DTV transition ads tell everyone to get UHF antennae? I've been an early adopter of DTV and feel utterly screwed by the transition. Half the channels are very weak, or not receiveable anymore. My wife is really pissed.

This debacle must be a boon for Cable TV companies.

I was an early adopter also, and I know that it indeed was the original intent to use UHF only. However, it was instead decided several years ago to add VHF, and so we all had plenty of advance warning. Consequently, I added a VHF antenna before the move. As a result, I find reception generally much better after the move. For example, before the move, I had terrible reception on KTTV 11 and KCOP 13 never came in. Now both are rock solid.

I was an early adopter also, and I know that it indeed was the original intent to use UHF only. However, it was instead decided several years ago to add VHF, and so we all had plenty of advance warning. Consequently, I added a VHF antenna before the move. As a result, I find reception generally much better after the move. For example, before the move, I had terrible reception on KTTV 11 and KCOP 13 never came in. Now both are rock solid.


For me, it seems that people that are closer to the towers are having better luck with the High VHF digital channels. Like I said, I am 57 miles away and had perfect UHF signals for all channels. This is with the Squareshooter 1000 or my new C4 antenna hooked up to the 7777. After the switch, very bad High VHF. I barely get channel 13 and that is in the night and just enough signal. This is with my new C5 (High VHF antenna 65+ miles) antenna very high on the pole. My C4 (UHF) is on the bottom of the pole and is being blocked by my balcony and I still get 70-80 signal. If the stations were to stay UHF only, it would be much easier to find a good UHF antenna (plus, UHF antennas are smaller). Instead, us people that used to get a good UHF signal on 9-13 now need a huge 116" antenna to for the low power High VHF stations.

I talked to a Sr. Engineer at KCAL and they told me they are running at the max 25 kW power but they are going to try to get more power. I'll believe it when I see it (along with 7, 11 and 13).

At plus 15 vhf/uhf getting UHF Stations at 1000KV. Also getting above 600KV, but only with favorable conditions. Cool skies, clouds, cold air. June gloom is the best for tv. Go to Antennapoint for power of signals.

Wondering what would be equivalent for vhf to be equal to 600KV, and 1000KV. If broadcasters in Los Angeles were broadcasting VHF equal to 1000KV believe all of LA would get reliable VHF tv. In short, everyone would be happy, which is better than some people being happy, and others being sad. If your out on the fringe, don't lose hope. Have faith.

Happy 4th of July.

At plus 15 vhf/uhf getting UHF Stations at 1000KV. Also getting above 600KV, but only with favorable conditions. Cool skies, clouds, cold air. June gloom is the best for tv. Go to Antennapoint for power of signals.

Wondering what would be equivalent for vhf to be equal to 600KV, and 1000KV. If broadcasters in Los Angeles were broadcasting VHF equal to 1000KV believe all of LA would get reliable VHF tv. In short, everyone would be happy, which is better than some people being happy, and others being sad. If your out on the fringe, don't lose hope. Have faith.

Happy 4th of July.

Called the FCC. Told them my situation. They basically said, "Yup, Los Angeles High VHF stations are running at very low power" and for me to call the stations. Like I can just tell them to increase their power. I'll just move my UHF antenna and face it towards San Diego and watch Fox 5 from there (like I did the other day). Why am I able to get Fox 5 in San Diego even though they are 20 miles further (about 77 miles). O wait...they are UHF and more power then Fox 11.

I think each of the 4 VHF broadcasters should apply for 15kW UHF translators, co-located on their own towers. WLS/7 in Chicago has applied for such a translator.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=768111&formid=346&q_num=5100

I can receive KNLA-LD (most of the time), which is only broadcasting at 400W right now on UHF 50. They have an application for 12kW, which should make them easy to receive:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=767847&formid=346&q_num=5100

I don't know why their application keeps referencing KOCE on channel 50, as they have shut-down the analog signal there. KOCE-DT is on 48.

I'm happy for you...It is the total opposite for me. Before the change, I got EVERY station 57 miles away with either the Square Shooter 1000 or my new C4. After the switch, I only get the UHF stations (maybe a little better but it doesn't matter). I get ZERO High VHF stations. I went out an bought the C5 ("engineered for High VHF only") and I barely get signals on 9-13 (nothing on 7). Channel 13 is almost watchable and 9-11 is maybe about 1% of the time. This is also with the Channelmaster 7777.
Is your C5 returnable? If it is perhaps you may consider exchanging it for a better high VHF antenna.

Rudy

Is your C5 returnable? If it is perhaps you may consider exchanging it for a better high VHF antenna.

Rudy

Sure, I can return it. Is there a better high VHF antenna that I will be able to put on my balcony on my apartment that will not take up the entire balcony?

My UHF antenna is the C4 and small and compact and I am able to get all the UHF digital stations. The Clearstream 5 is supposed to pick up High VHF only at 65+ miles.

I'm rescanning on a daily basis.

On 23 JUN I rescanned my Sylvania TV (Terk Antenna), and found chroma bars test pattern on 24-1 and 24-4. No info on call letters. As of 1 JUL they're still there.

I rescanned other RXs
Magnavox convertor with RCA flat antenna in upstairs bedroom=No 24
APEX convertor with UHF yagi pointed in various directions=KVCR 24 programming when ENE


Any one else seeing this?

For me, it seems that people that are closer to the towers are having better luck with the High VHF digital channels. Like I said, I am 57 miles away and had perfect UHF signals for all channels. This is with the Squareshooter 1000 or my new C4 antenna hooked up to the 7777. After the switch, very bad High VHF. I barely get channel 13 and that is in the night and just enough signal. This is with my new C5 (High VHF antenna 65+ miles) antenna very high on the pole. My C4 (UHF) is on the bottom of the pole and is being blocked by my balcony and I still get 70-80 signal. If the stations were to stay UHF only, it would be much easier to find a good UHF antenna (plus, UHF antennas are smaller). Instead, us people that used to get a good UHF signal on 9-13 now need a huge 116" antenna to for the low power High VHF stations.

I talked to a Sr. Engineer at KCAL and they told me they are running at the max 25 kW power but they are going to try to get more power. I'll believe it when I see it (along with 7, 11 and 13).

I believe that these discrepancies can be explained by two factors. First, VHF is much better at being able to circumvent obstacles, due to its greater wavelength. In my case, KTTV and KCOP are not completely line-of-sight, and the UHF, especially high UHF, behaves too much like a beam of light, and is thus easily blocked by opaque objects, such as mountains or buildings.

These two stations, formerly on chs 65 and 66 respectively, were thus easily blocked by the terrain in the signal path. In you location, all of the Mt. Wilson transmitter towers should be in plain view, and so UHF reception should be no problem.

The second factor is transmitter power. Some of the VHF stations are, I believe, running unrealistically low power levels at present. These power levels may be adequate for those of us who both live relatively near the transmitters and are also using large rooftop antennas. These levels are, unfortunately, inadequate for many who live at greater distances, or who are restricted to indoor antennas.

If and when these stations increase their power, I believe that it will become more apparent that VHF is really more suitable for DTV than are the higher UHF channels.

I believe that these discrepancies can be explained by two factors. First, VHF is much better at being able to circumvent obstacles, due to its greater wavelength. In my case, KTTV and KCOP are not completely line-of-sight, and the UHF, especially high UHF, behaves too much like a beam of light, and is thus easily blocked by opaque objects, such as mountains or buildings.

These two stations, formerly on chs 65 and 66 respectively, were thus easily blocked by the terrain in the signal path. In you location, all of the Mt. Wilson transmitter towers should be in plain view, and so UHF reception should be no problem.

The second factor is transmitter power. Some of the VHF stations are, I believe, running unrealistically low power levels at present. These power levels may be adequate for those of us who both live relatively near the transmitters and are also using large rooftop antennas. These levels are, unfortunately, inadequate for many who live at greater distances, or who are restricted to indoor antennas.

If and when these stations increase their power, I believe that it will become more apparent that VHF is really more suitable for DTV than are the higher UHF channels.

I am sorry but I do not have a line of sight (at least I don't think I do). I live in the Inland Empire (valley). Here is my TV fool info:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=618a9878f09890

I "should" have better luck with the High VHF but I don't. And, I have a friend that lives in Hemet (92544 zip code) and he is seeing the same thing as me (good UHF/bad High VHF) and he has 2 huge antennas at his house.

I'm rescanning on a daily basis.

On 23 JUN I rescanned my Sylvania TV (Terk Antenna), and found chroma bars test pattern on 24-1 and 24-4. No info on call letters. As of 1 JUL they're still there.

...

Any one else seeing this?

Yep. I reported those a week or two ago. They're coming from KBEH. Widescreen standard def colorbars, with a slight horizontal flicker on 24-4 only.

Most of my receivers don't see them, but EyeTV (a Mac-based USB tuner) does. They also show up when I play back a raw bitstream recorded on DVHS.

I have lost all reception of KTTV, channel 11. It's no great loss but it bugs me to lose a formerly strong channel. How do I get it back? I tried manually entering it to no avail (it is channel 11, both real and virtual).

Do you have VHF for your antenna?

I have my regular TV antenna, a UHF/VHF roof-top antenna. It works fine for all other channels except 11.

Yep. I reported those a week or two ago. They're coming from KBEH. Widescreen standard def colorbars, with a slight horizontal flicker on 24-4 only.

Most of my receivers don't see them, but EyeTV (a Mac-based USB tuner) does. They also show up when I play back a raw bitstream recorded on DVHS.

Thanks narkspud for the confirmation. Is there a thread on how not all ATSC tuners are created equal?

Any intel on what will eventually appear on 24-1 / 24-4. A KVCR translator for LA?

Thanks narkspud for the confirmation. Is there a thread on how not all ATSC tuners are created equal?

Any intel on what will eventually appear on 24-1 / 24-4. A KVCR translator for LA?

I don't think they intend for you to "see" those at all. They don't have whatever mapping is required for most tuners to detect them. In EyeTV, they both show up as "64" (assigned by the program itself as the next available number) rather than 24-1 and 24-4. The ATSC standard includes provisions for pay services that must be unlocked to view, and I suspect that's what will wind up there.

They have nothing whatsoever to do with KVCR, unless there's some highly unlikely lease agreement in the works. They belong to KBEH (63-1), the broadcaster on physical channel 24 in the LA market.

Thanks narkspud for the confirmation. Is there a thread on how not all ATSC tuners are created equal?

Any intel on what will eventually appear on 24-1 / 24-4. A KVCR translator for LA?
KVCR has nothing to do with what's going on at digital 24-1 & 24-4. Those are both KBEH's babies along with 63-2, all of which are showing color bars. KVCR's real digital channel is 25 mapped back to 24 via PSIP. I would think this is creating a lot of confusion to tuners and humans alike that might be able to "see" both broadcasters (I am not one of them, I never got KVCR).

My uninformed guess is those KBEH slots will be subleased to various Spanish godcasters left out in the analog dust like Almavision or maybe HSN. I don't really see KBEH shelling out any money for anything beyond being an MTV-Tr3s affiliate. Though if they were to pick up RTN they might actually get some eyeballs to their channel.

Seems VHF is better at Refraction and skip:

http://www.aviationtoday.com/av/issue/feature/Longer-Legs-forVHF-780.html

and other Research:

http://www.tapr.com/ve3jf.dcc97.html

Don't know how to add links. So, Sorry.

VHF Hi needs to be better researched, obviously. At transmission.

Didn't work out, try to work on it later..

Still getting very strong reception of LA Hi-VHF digitals near the ocean in Tijuana - 130 miles away. These have been 100% watchable every time I have tuned them. Sure I am getting some benefit from tropospheric ducting...

Channel, SNR

7.1, 31.5
9.1, 29.5
11.1, 30
13.1, 29.5

The reception of these channels is as strong as my local San Diego channels. This is with a roof mounted Winegard YA-1713 that is combined with a ClearStream4 for UHF, 50 feet of RG6 cable, NO pre-amp.

Still getting very strong reception of LA Hi-VHF digitals near the ocean in Tijuana - 130 miles away. These have been 100% watchable every time I have tuned them. Sure I am getting some benefit from tropospheric ducting...

Channel, SNR

7.1, 31.5
9.1, 29.5
11.1, 30
13.1, 29.5

The reception of these channels is as strong as my local San Diego channels. This is with a roof mounted Winegard YA-1713 that is combined with a ClearStream4 for UHF, 50 feet of RG6 cable, NO pre-amp.

Nice. So with High VHF, I need a 100" antenna but with UHF I only need a 22" antenna. Something is wrong with that picture. I have the C4 for my UHF and it is great 57 miles away. The C5 for High VHF 57 miles away is not.

Nice. So with High VHF, I need a 100" antenna but with UHF I only need a 22" antenna. Something is wrong with that picture. I have the C4 for my UHF and it is great 57 miles away. The C5 for High VHF 57 miles away is not.

You know, I'm a grumpy old man, but in my day people put up antennas to receive the stations. They didn't expect stations to increase their signals until they worked with your antenna.

Just sayin'.

Nice. So with High VHF, I need a 100" antenna but with UHF I only need a 22" antenna. Something is wrong with that picture. I have the C4 for my UHF and it is great 57 miles away. The C5 for High VHF 57 miles away is not.

Actually the wavelength for UHF is roughly 1/4 that for High VHF so 22" is about right. Theoretically (and to a large extent, practically), you can take a good antenna for High VHF and reduce every dimension to 1/4 and have an equally good antenna for uhf. So there's nothing wrong with the picture, it's just basic physics.

By the same basic rules, I'm very suspicious of the specs for the C5. It does say up to 8 db for the gain but that could really be anything from 0 up. The reflector is certainly too small to do a good job at high VHF. You really can't trust specs much these days as they're written by marketers rather than engineers.

To do a decent job at High VHF you need elements that are 1/2 wavelength long which would be around 30 inches. The YA-1713 is in this ballpark which is why it does a good job.

You know, I'm a grumpy old man, but in my day people put up antennas to receive the stations. They didn't expect stations to increase their signals until they worked with your antenna.

Just sayin'.

Yup. I put up 2 antennas (on my balcony of my apartment). One is the C4 (for UHF up to 65+ miles) and the C5 that is for High VHF (up to 65+ miles). I am getting all my UHF stations and none of my VHF stations. I had perfect UHF DTV before the switch to High VHF. I really don't want (or can) put up a 100" antenna for 4 channels that I got perfect before the switch.

Actually the wavelength for UHF is roughly 1/4 that for High VHF so 22" is about right. Theoretically (and to a large extent, practically), you can take a good antenna for High VHF and reduce every dimension to 1/4 and have an equally good antenna for uhf. So there's nothing wrong with the picture, it's just basic physics.

By the same basic rules, I'm very suspicious of the specs for the C5. It does say up to 8 db for the gain but that could really be anything from 0 up. The reflector is certainly too small to do a good job at high VHF. You really can't trust specs much these days as they're written by marketers rather than engineers.

To do a decent job at High VHF you need elements that are 1/2 wavelength long which would be around 30 inches. The YA-1713 is in this ballpark which is why it does a good job.

Right. I understand all that. I guess I was being sarcastic. If you need a smaller antenna for UHF, why not just go with UHF? There are only 4 channels that are High VHF and 30 or more that are UHF. Put up a 100" antenna just for the 4 stations?

Right. I understand all that. I guess I was being sarcastic. If you need a smaller antenna for UHF, why not just go with UHF? There are only 4 channels that are High VHF and 30 or more that are UHF. Put up a 100" antenna just for the 4 stations?

Sorry, I was concerned that there are people who would think that because a UHF antenna was smaller that it wouldn't be as good (for UHF).

As I understand it, less power is needed for the same market penetration on High VHF than UHF so those stations that already had an assignment there wanted to stay there. Of course, that only applies if the proper antenna is used. Thus people using the C4 (for example) are suddenly having trouble. (And yes, I understand that there is a item in the C4 spec that says it is good for high VHF but as near as I can tell that is just marketing hype. Also, as I said, even the C5 is suspect in my mind.)

You might ask that if VHF is better for the stations, why did the Low VHF stations move? I believe that is a combination of the fact that Low VHF is much more susceptible to interference and that it is more useable for reassignment to other (non-video) services.

Sorry, I was concerned that there are people who would think that because a UHF antenna was smaller that it wouldn't be as good (for UHF).

As I understand it, less power is needed for the same market penetration on High VHF than UHF so those stations that already had an assignment there wanted to stay there. Of course, that only applies if the proper antenna is used. Thus people using the C4 (for example) are suddenly having trouble. (And yes, I understand that there is a item in the C4 spec that says it is good for high VHF but as near as I can tell that is just marketing hype. Also, as I said, even the C5 is suspect in my mind.)

You might ask that if VHF is better for the stations, why did the Low VHF stations move? I believe that is a combination of the fact that Low VHF is much more susceptible to interference and that it is more useable for reassignment to other (non-video) services.

I keep hearing about "less power is needed for the same marked penetration on High VHF than UHF". I find this untrue. Even with my C4 pre-transition, I was getting good analog 11 and 13. When they went all digital, they cut the power and now nothing (on my C4 or C5). I was perfect on the UHF digital when it was 66,65 and now I am bad with High VHF. Before the change and after the change, I have not seen any difference on UHF. I always have been good with UHF (even with my Squareshooter 1000). I get great reception even with the "low power" UHF stations. Just those darn very low power High VHF.

Antenna's with OTA reception don't work for everyone. This is why there are alternatives - cable, satellite, and internet. So if you live in a location many miles from the transmission tower and you can't put up a proper roof top antenna - you have other choices.

I keep hearing about "less power is needed for the same marked penetration on High VHF than UHF". I find this untrue. Even with my C4 pre-transition, I was getting good analog 11 and 13. When they went all digital, they cut the power and now nothing (on my C4 or C5). I was perfect on the UHF digital when it was 66,65 and now I am bad with High VHF. Before the change and after the change, I have not seen any difference on UHF. I always have been good with UHF (even with my Squareshooter 1000). I get great reception even with the "low power" UHF stations. Just those darn very low power High VHF.

Have you tried hooking the C5 directly to your tuner/set without having the C4 and combiner in-line? Maybe you have another issue?

Also, here is another alternative for hi-vhf. Not as much gain as the Winegard YA-1713, but "smaller" at 60" in length.

http://www.antennacraft.net/pdfs/Y5-7-13.pdf
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=Y5-7-13

$23 + shipping at Solid Signal. On back-order. Surely a lot less expensive than the C5. Similar amount of gain than the C5. C5 chart at Antenna's direct shows apx. 7dB of gain. AntennaCraft Y5-7-13 is listed at apx. 6.9 dB of gain.

Have you tried hooking the C5 directly to your tuner/set without having the C4 and combiner in-line? Maybe you have another issue?

Yup. I only have a 10 foot cable run (from my balcony to my TV). I ran it directly into my tuner. I was able to pick up most of my UHF channels even with the C5. That is how good of UHF signals I have (57 miles away in the valley). I sometimes get a usable signal on 9, 11 or 13 but not stable. Never seen a signal for 7 now.

Antenna's with OTA reception don't work for everyone. This is why there are alternatives - cable, satellite, and internet. So if you live in a location many miles from the transmission tower and you can't put up a proper roof top antenna - you have other choices.

I would believe this if I didn't already have OTA reception for about 4 years perfect with a small antenna on my balcony. I do have DirecTV. The problem is recording onto my PC (media center DVR). I have 3 digital tuners and one analog tuner. I like being able to record more than one show at a time in HD (like Lost on ABC at the same time as House on Fox). With DirecTV, I would have to pay extra for this. Having OTA allows me to have 4 digital tuners recording at one time (and one analog with my Directv receiver).

I can not have cable at my place or else I would just use cable QAM (exclusive contract with Consolidated Smart Systems to carry only DirecTV here).

I have a reception problem also here in Tijuana in receiving digital transmissions of stations broadcasting in Tijuana that are less than 5 miles away. Can't receive some of them, not enough signal. Transmission towers don't have elements on the tower facing this direction. Nothing I can do about it... And these are on UHF.

I have a reception problem also here in Tijuana in receiving digital transmissions of stations broadcasting in Tijuana that are less than 5 miles away. Can't receive some of them, not enough signal. Transmission towers don't have elements on the tower facing this direction. Nothing I can do about it... And these are on UHF.

I guess if I wasn't "spoiled" with perfect UHF DTV for 4 years, then I wouldn't be complaining right now. I know I can have great signals 57 miles away and I still do (on UHF). I guess that is why I am mad.

I would believe this if I didn't already have OTA reception for about 4 years perfect with a small antenna on my balcony. I do have DirecTV. The problem is recording onto my PC (media center DVR). I have 3 digital tuners and one analog tuner. I like being able to record more than one show at a time in HD (like Lost on ABC at the same time as House on Fox). With DirecTV, I would have to pay extra for this. Having OTA allows me to have 4 digital tuners recording at one time (and one analog with my Directv receiver).

I can not have cable at my place or else I would just use cable QAM (exclusive contract with Consolidated Smart Systems to carry only DirecTV here).

Well at this point you can:

*Try another hi-VHF antenna. As I stated previously C5 is new and unproven in the field. Antenna's Direct is not even selling these yet. Not sure how you got one already.
*Try to mount in another location if you can get roof access
*Compain to the stations and FCC and wait to see if it ever gets any better
*Pay up to DirectTV so you can DVR the stations you can't receive in HD
*Move to another location where you can get OTA or cable

Well at this point you can:

*Try another hi-VHF antenna. As I stated previously C5 is new and unproven in the field. Antenna's Direct is not even selling these yet. Not sure how you got one already.
*Try to mount in another location if you can get roof access
*Compain to the stations and FCC and wait to see if it ever gets any better
*Pay up to DirectTV so you can DVR the stations you can't receive in HD
*Move to another location where you can get OTA or cable

or:

*Keep complaining on avsforum.com

I might look into that "smaller" High VHF antenna. I think I can hide that one on my patio pretty good. I know the managers can't say anything but I don't want problems (I already see them looking at my C4 and C5) heheeh

j/k.

Actually, I did call the FCC and they did tell me that the LA stations are running very low power. I called KCAL 9 and talked to a Sr. Engineer and they told me they are running at the max 25 kW.

or:

*Keep complaining on avsforum.com

I might look into that "smaller" High VHF antenna. I think I can hide that one on my patio pretty good. I know the managers can't say anything but I don't want problems (I already see them looking at my C4 and C5) heheeh

j/k.

Actually, I did call the FCC and they did tell me that the LA stations are running very low power. I called KCAL 9 and talked to a Sr. Engineer and they told me they are running at the max 25 kW.

The stations may not really care. People who receive their transmissions via OTA are in the minority. Likely they would have to do transmitter re-work to boost their signal strength as well as get the FCC to agree. Going to be even more difficult after they receive their electric bills and see the money that they are saving !

Who knows. Maybe I'm wrong and they are working diligently to prepare their FCC filings and engineering planning for their transmitters.

Try adding it manually, try a rescan, try repositioning the antenna just a wee bit, and if you're using some sort of signal amp, try removing it. Look for sources of local interference, or metallic objects nearby that might be hitting the antenna with reflected signals. And double-check your connections and wiring.

It's probably something simple - you just have to trouble-shoot until you find it.

I got up to my attic and repositioning the antenna today by adjust the direction that the antenna pointing to the transmitter down south a bit and viola the signal strenght for station 58-1 has gone up to around 67% which
is strong enough to get a solid reception. Thank you guy for all your help.:)

Will this work for me? (instead of the C5). I will use the C4 for the UHF and use my 7777. Also, I plan on putting this on my balcony and will have it on the second floor (but there will be a small wall in front because I don't want the antenna attracting too much attention. Will this work? It is good with my C4 being that low and the balcony blocking it.

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=Y5-7-13

TVfool:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d074523d52b0c16

(need 7, 9, 11 and 13 LA).

Thanks.

Will this work for me? (instead of the C5). I will use the C4 for the UHF and use my 7777. Also, I plan on putting this on my balcony and will have it on the second floor (but there will be a small wall in front because I don't want the antenna attracting too much attention. Will this work? It is good with my C4 being that low and the balcony blocking it.

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=Y5-7-13

TVfool:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d074523d52b0c16

(need 7, 9, 11 and 13 LA).

Thanks.

It should work fairly well, as long as you are able in your location to aim it toward Mt. Wilson without going through any nearby buildings. It is definitely worth a try. Better yet would be the Winegard YA-1713, but it is three feet longer.

It should work fairly well, as long as you are able in your location to aim it toward Mt. Wilson without going through any nearby buildings. It is definitely worth a try. Better yet would be the Winegard YA-1713, but it is three feet longer.


I do have apartments in front of me (about 100 ft in front). This isn't a problem with my UHF signal. Do you see this being a problem with the HI VHF signal?

I do have apartments in front of me (about 100 ft in front). This isn't a problem with my UHF signal. Do you see this being a problem with the HI VHF signal?

It will probably be even less of a problem with hi-VHF than with UHF. It is definitely worth a try.

I am 30 miles from Mt Wilson and antennaweb says I need a large outdoor VHF antenna for channels 7-13. I have a large UHF with preamp and Dish DVR722 as my OTA tuner. I get 2, 4 and 5 at full "100" strength.

But I also get 7 and 9 at "60." How is this possible without a VHF antenna? I get no signal at all, zero, with 11 and 13.

I am 30 miles from Mt Wilson and antennaweb says I need a large outdoor VHF antenna for channels 7-13. I have a large UHF with preamp and Dish DVR722 as my OTA tuner. I get 2, 4 and 5 at full "100" strength.

But I also get 7 and 9 at "60." How is this possible without a VHF antenna? I get no signal at all, zero, with 11 and 13.

Because most UHF antennas have "some" high-VHF reception that is not entirely predictable.

I don't remember what your TV Fool plot looks like. I would be interested in seeing it if you don't mind sharing.

VHF seems to be working better towards the West of Mt. Wilson vs. the South. KABC/KCOP seemed to be almost universally bad before the transition, but it wasn't a UHF problem.

If/when KTTV/KCOP go to 115/120kW, perhaps then they will be on par with the strongest UHF stations, at least where I am.

I have a YA1713 as well, which is a great upper VHF antenna. I have a CM4228 for UHF, but even the Terk HDTVi gets good UHF results.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3daa056650e67a25

All of these web sites have failed me. As you can see it says I should get few major stations even with an outdoor antenna. But I do with an attic antenna.

Rick R

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3daa056650e67a25

All of these web sites have failed me. As you can see it says I should get few major stations even with an outdoor antenna. But I do with an attic antenna.

Rick R

Sites such as TVFool and Antennaweb.org can't take into account every factor. They are good for estimating what you can get. Sometimes you can do better, sometimes not as good. "Micro" factors such as a large tree, other buildings in the way, pointing the antenna the wrong direction, excessive cable runs/splitters, improper installation, etc. can't be accounted for by these sites.

I am 30 miles from Mt Wilson and antennaweb says I need a large outdoor VHF antenna for channels 7-13. I have a large UHF with preamp and Dish DVR722 as my OTA tuner. I get 2, 4 and 5 at full "100" strength.

But I also get 7 and 9 at "60." How is this possible without a VHF antenna? I get no signal at all, zero, with 11 and 13.

Better tuner is my guess.

My house is 34 miles from Mt.Wilson. I have a S3 TiVo and MyHD 130 (pci tv card) sharing a 4 bay bow-tie antenna, that is indoors and about 6.5 feet off the floor. There is less than 10 feet of RG6 cable connecting them to the antenna.
The MyHD does not tune any channel higher than 5.
The S3 TiVo receives 2 thru 13 without a problem. The signal strength is about 35 to 40 percent less on 7~13 than on 2~5; but it locks on solid.
Like many others here I had no problems, with pci card tuners, before the switch over...

I have a Channel Master 2018 on order; should be here next week. I'm hoping it will solve my problem.

KBEH1, analog 63, seems to have thrown in the nightlight towel.

9 analog signals still coming in here at the ranch ... KCBS's nightlight and 8 low powers (6, 25, 27, 33, 45, 57, 67 and 69).

I also see that KFLA-LD has applied to move to 22. Should make it a lot easier to receive in Orange County, so we never need to miss watching those blank subchannels again.

There are a number of competing apps for channel 22. I imagine it will take years to sort out.

- Trip

I still can't get 7, 9, 11 and 13. I had all before the switch, I also updated to Windows 7.

Any reason why this still is?

Thanks

Wondering if this is the solution for fringe tv viewing, and all other areas that are having problems with receiving VHF Stations. Very short run of at least RG-6, Very short. Preamp. Better VHF Antenna. Using a laptop.

Wondering if this is the solution for fringe tv viewing, and all other areas that are having problems with receiving VHF Stations. Very short run of at least RG-6, Very short. Preamp. Better VHF Antenna. Using a laptop.

Of course keeping coax line length will always help, but at VHF frequencies, coax losses are musch less than for UHF, especially high UHF. I think the main thing is to use a really good VHF antenna. A good antenna-mounted preamp should also help. However, I have no idea how the use of a laptop could improve reception.

I still can't get 7, 9, 11 and 13. I had all before the switch, I also updated to Windows 7.

Any reason why this still is?

Thanks

I am located north of you in the Porter Ranch/Granada Hills area, and I had just the opposite experience. Before the move, ch 11 only came in erratically, and would disappear completely for days at a time, and I never could get 13. Channels 7 and 9 however, were generally good. Now, all of them come in, and are generally rock solid. It sounds like you are most likely not using the right kind of antenna for high-VHF.

I still can't get 7, 9, 11 and 13. I had all before the switch, I also updated to Windows 7.

Any reason why this still is?

Thanks

All the full-power DTV signals in LA used to be on UHF, but those four had to move to VHF for the transition. You probably have a UHF-only antenna that just needs to be replaced with a VHF/UHF one.

However, there are some folks, particularly long-distance viewers, who are having trouble getting those four no matter which antenna they try. The stations are aware of it, and most (all?) have requested power increases from the FCC to compensate.

Just watch Fox 5/69 from San Diego. That is what I am doing. Even though I am 76 miles away, I get a better signal from San Diego then from Fox 11 High VHF that I am 57 miles away. This is with my C4 pointed towards Los Angeles Mt Wilson also. I even tried a Hi VHF antenna and that didn't work (yet) because I am trying a different Hi VHF antenna next week.

Just watch Fox 5/69 from San Diego. That is what I am doing. Even though I am 76 miles away, I get a better signal from San Diego then from Fox 11 High VHF that I am 57 miles away. This is with my C4 pointed towards Los Angeles Mt Wilson also. I even tried a Hi VHF antenna and that didn't work (yet) because I am trying a different Hi VHF antenna next week.

Right now I am picking up KGTV 10 and KFMB 8 with my VHF antenna. They are 135 miles away! KGTV is solid, but KFMB is breaking up, but my antenna is aimed at Mt. Wilson, so the San Diego stations are probably about 30 degrees off-axis. With a reorientation of the antenna toward San Diego, KFMB would very likely be solid too. However, San Diego stations can generally only be picked up here in the summer/early fall when there is an inversion layer. Still, this shows that good, long-distance reception is also possible with VHF.

Right now I am picking up KGTV 10 and KFMB 8 with my VHF antenna. They are 135 miles away! KGTV is solid, but KFMB is breaking up, but my antenna is aimed at Mt. Wilson, so the San Diego stations are probably about 30 degrees off-axis. With a reorientation of the antenna toward San Diego, KFMB would very likely be solid too. However, San Diego stations can generally only be picked up here in the summer/early fall when there is an inversion layer. Still, this shows that good, long-distance reception is also possible with VHF.

Wait ... you're getting KFMB in Los Angeles? You sure it isn't KFLA?

Better tuner is my guess.

Yeah the quality of the tuner can make a significant difference in reception. I have 2 TVs and 2 HD DVRs currently hooked up to the same Monoprice Indoor/Outdoor antenna via a splitter and the reception varies.

On one of the TVs I get around 50-60% on channel 11 and 13 with some occasional blocking. But one of the DVRs gets a steady 80-85% on 11 and 13.

Yeah the quality of the tuner can make a significant difference in reception. I have 2 TVs and 2 HD DVRs currently hooked up to the same Monoprice Indoor/Outdoor antenna via a splitter and the reception varies.

On one of the TVs I get around 50-60% on channel 11 and 13 with some occasional blocking. But one of the DVRs gets a steady 80-85% on 11 and 13.Ditto for my DTV Pal convert box (6th generation) vs. my two old HDTV tuner cards (1st generation).

Hello
I have a digital tv with an amp antennae and prior to the digital change I was able to get reception on kabc channel 7 and kcal channel 9 fox channel 11
I was gone during the change over but now that I am home from holiday I cannot get these channels that worked before whats different.

I was reading do I need a different antenna for channels 7-13? I currently have the Terk amp bow style.

thanks for you knowledge (I am lost my next option is to pay for cable- unwillingly)

Hello
I have a digital tv with an amp antennae and prior to the digital change I was able to get reception on kabc channel 7 and kcal channel 9 fox channel 11
I was gone during the change over but now that I am home from holiday I cannot get these channels that worked before whats different.

I was reading do I need a different antenna for channels 7-13? I currently have the Terk amp bow style.

thanks for you knowledge (I am lost my next option is to pay for cable- unwillingly)Yes, bowtie antennae are only UHF. Rabbit ears antenna can do VHF. There are better antennae (e.g, roof types) that can do both.

help! I rescanned my digital tv and found channel 7 again but lost digital channel 2.
I used to get kcal 9 and fox 11 which no longer come in with the same tv and antannae Any advice
Thanks

help! I rescanned my digital tv and found channel 7 again but lost digital channel 2.
I used to get kcal 9 and fox 11 which no longer come in with the same tv and antannae Any advice
ThanksMove/Adjust the antenna(e)?

Wait ... you're getting KFMB in Los Angeles? You sure it isn't KFLA?

Absolutely sure. The display identifies it as KFMB, and it carries the same identical CBS network programming as KCBS. I can switch back and forth between the two stations without missing a beat. BTW KFMB is coming in with solid reception and a signal level of about 55% here now.

I noticed KTTV's 11 and 13 are lower today: 30-40%. They were 40-50% a few days ago. Is anyone else noticing that or just me?

I noticed KTTV's 11 and 13 are lower today: 30-40%. They were 40-50% a few days ago. Is anyone else noticing that or just me?

I am not seeing this here: ch 11 is running about 50% and ch 13 about 70%. What you are seeing is probably weather-related.

I am not seeing this here: ch 11 is running about 50% and ch 13 about 70%. What you are seeing is probably weather-related.Hmm, what changed from a few days ago though? I know it was windy yesterday, but never checked TV. :D

I noticed KTTV's 11 and 13 are lower today: 30-40%. They were 40-50% a few days ago. Is anyone else noticing that or just me?


I noticed a recent drop in those two too. Weather? Anyway, they're still coming in decent with the preamp I added to my 91XG so for now problem averted in Rancho Cucamonga.

I noticed a recent drop in those two too. Weather? Anyway, they're still coming in decent with the preamp I added to my 91XG so for now problem averted in Rancho Cucamonga.Right now, it is higher at 60s% I wonder if KTTV lowers their powers last night due to Friday night?

Hi all, I live in the Loma Linda area which appears to be 50 mi. from most LA stations. I am looking for antenna recommendations to pick up CBS, NBC, FOX, ABC, and the CW. Antennaweb suggests yellow UHF for NBC, CBS, CW and yellow VHF for FOX and ABC. What antennas do you guys recommend? I'd prefer to have it in my attic, but could mount it outside on the corner of my house if need be.

Thanks!

For a long time I've noticed that when I watch programs on KCET I have to increase the volume quite a bit from the level I use for programs on other channels. Yesterday was one of those rare times when KCET & KOCE were airing the same PBS feed (a rebroadcast of the previous night's A Capitol Fourth) so it was easy to switch back & forth to compare. With KOCE my usual volume setting was fine, but switching to KCET I needed to increase about 6 levels for it to sound the same as KOCE. I was wondering if anyone else notices this? Does KCET intentionally diminish the audio level or what else might cause this? I'm just curious.

For a long time I've noticed that when I watch programs on KCET I have to increase the volume quite a bit from the level I use for programs on other channels. Yesterday was one of those rare times when KCET & KOCE were airing the same PBS feed (a rebroadcast of the previous night's A Capitol Fourth) so it was easy to switch back & forth to compare. With KOCE my usual volume setting was fine, but switching to KCET I needed to increase about 6 levels for it to sound the same as KOCE. I was wondering if anyone else notices this? Does KCET intentionally diminish the audio level or what else might cause this? I'm just curious.

You are quite right in your general observations about the differing volume levels among different digital stations. This used to be more of a problem in the past, and the stations seem to be making some effort toward achieving comparable volume levels. I am not noticing a big difference between KCET and KOCE right now, but it may well have been the case earlier when you were noticing this. I have noticed that the PBS stations sometimes tend to use slightly lower volume settings than the commercial stations. A couple of years ago, this was quite striking, with KOCE having the loewest volume, and KCBS and KCAL having the loudest. Also, the latter two stations still seem slightly louder at times.

I believe that the explanation lies in the fact that analog stations used severe audio compression in order to keep their audio signals within the bounds of their limited alloted passbands, which made for poorer audio quality. However, DTV does not have the same limitations and can thus get away with uncompressed, or lightly compressed audio.

You are quite right in your general observations about the differing volume levels among different digital stations. This used to be more of a problem in the past, and the stations seem to be making some effort toward achieving comparable volume levels. I am not noticing a big difference between KCET and KOCE right now, but it may well have been the case earlier when you were noticing this. I have noticed that the PBS stations sometimes tend to use slightly lower volume settings than the commercial stations. A couple of years ago, this was quite striking, with KOCE having the loewest volume, and KCBS and KCAL having the loudest. Also, the latter two stations still seem slightly louder at times.

I believe that the explanation lies in the fact that analog stations used severe audio compression in order to keep their audio signals within the bounds of their limited alloted passbands, which made for poorer audio quality. However, DTV does not have the same limitations and can thus get away with uncompressed, or lightly compressed audio.What about those loud commercials/spots/advertisements? ;)

For a long time I've noticed that when I watch programs on KCET I have to increase the volume quite a bit from the level I use for programs on other channels. Yesterday was one of those rare times when KCET & KOCE were airing the same PBS feed (a rebroadcast of the previous night's A Capitol Fourth) so it was easy to switch back & forth to compare. With KOCE my usual volume setting was fine, but switching to KCET I needed to increase about 6 levels for it to sound the same as KOCE. I was wondering if anyone else notices this? Does KCET intentionally diminish the audio level or what else might cause this? I'm just curious.

Nothing KCET does surprises me anymore.

However last night they actually managed to air "Masterpiece Theatre" on 28.1 with the sound in sync and with the Dolby Surround working.

This was a major achievement for them!

Also the aspect ratio was correct, though they did, as they often do, have their HD 'bug' 'supered' when in fact it was widescreen SD.

What about those loud commercials/spots/advertisements? ;)

KNBC 4 has a significantly lower sound than most other stations, BUT, the commercial sound is at least as loud and maybe louder that everyone else. It is almost a painful differential and requires constant readjusting of the sound level.

KNBC 4 has a significantly lower sound than most other stations, BUT, the commercial sound is at least as loud and maybe louder that everyone else. It is almost a painful differential and requires constant readjusting of the sound level.Use the mute button. ;)

Wasn't there a FCC bill proposal to adjust volume for this issue?

Interesting. The last two nights, I was able to pick all the local broadcast TV stations (don't care about foreign ones and stuff, but most of those work too!) with strong signals with my upside down Terk rabbit ear antenna (base fits nicely between the hanger bar and the upper shelf) in my upstair room's closest, not fully lengths (facing one end to a big tree and Mt. Wilson and other facing the opposite directions at 180 degreess). This might be good, and I probably won't need my bowtie antenna (UHF) if this keeps up! Even my two HDTV tuner cards can handle them. Crazy! Isn't this odd especially for UHF channels? I should take a photograph of this setup. :D

Does anyone know the status of KLCS 58? I still can't get it detected since the analog was dropped (was fine on bowtie back then). Has the station gets its new transmitter yet?

Since distant stations were coming in well early today, I did a rescan on both receivers, and the Pioneer plasma picked up a new station on ch 24 in additiuon to KVCR. No identification is shown on the set, and, when I looked for the station to identify at 9:00 pm, I saw nothing. Like KVCR, it has four subchannels, numbered 1 through 4. All but 24.2 are showing color bars. 24.2 was showing very low-quality SD material, in English, but sometimes with Spanish subtitles.

Since distant stations were coming in well early today, I did a rescan on both receivers, and the Pioneer plasma picked up a new station on ch 24 in additiuon to KVCR. No identification is shown on the set, and, when I looked for the station to identify at 9:00 pm, I saw nothing. Like KVCR, it has four subchannels, numbered 1 through 4. All but 24.2 are showing color bars. 24.2 was showing very low-quality SD material, in English, but sometimes with Spanish subtitles.As of last week and just now, I got four 24.x channels. Two were unknown (titled Service with numbers (1 and 4)) and other two were KBEHDT and KBEH.2. I can't seem to lock on them today to see with my Terk rabbit ears (probably need to do it with bowtie antenna, but then I don't care about these foreign stations).

Any idea whether you are receiving KBEH from their old analog location North of Ventura
(up to 85 kW) and/or their new location on Mt Wilson (up to 1000 kW)???

FCC TVQ entry for KBEH:
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=56384

Coverage maps for ALL stations in L.A. & S.D. areas:
http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/maps_current/Los_Angeles_CA.pdf
http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/maps_current/San_Diego_CA.pdf

BTW: TVFool updated post-transition transmitter icons for display in GoogleEarth:
http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=16
They currently assume 0.001 kW from Mt Wilson.....NOT!!!!

The "mystery station" does indeed appear to be KBEH. The color bars on 24.1, 24.3 and 24.4 appear to be identical to those on 63.2 and the programming on 24.2 seems to be the same as that on 63.1. It seems odd though that KBEH would appear in two places at once, on their real and virtual channels. Perhaps they are experimenting, and may even be doing something illegal.

As of last week and just now, I got four 24.x channels. Two were unknown (titled Service with numbers (1 and 4)) and other two were KBEHDT and KBEH.2. I can't seem to lock on them today to see with my Terk rabbit ears (probably need to do it with bowtie antenna, but then I don't care about these foreign stations).

Apparently you are not getting KVCR. It has four subchannels, as did also KBEH on ch 24 when I checked it. That makes a total of eight subchannels between the two stations!

For a long time I've noticed that when I watch programs on KCET I have to increase the volume quite a bit from the level I use for programs on other channels. Yesterday was one of those rare times when KCET & KOCE were airing the same PBS feed (a rebroadcast of the previous night's A Capitol Fourth) so it was easy to switch back & forth to compare. With KOCE my usual volume setting was fine, but switching to KCET I needed to increase about 6 levels for it to sound the same as KOCE. I was wondering if anyone else notices this? Does KCET intentionally diminish the audio level or what else might cause this? I'm just curious.
Yes unfortunately this has been the case for a while. :(

Rudy

The "mystery station" does indeed appear to be KBEH. The color bars on 24.1, 24.3 and 24.4 appear to be identical to those on 63.2 and the programming on 24.2 seems to be the same as that on 63.1. It seems odd though that KBEH would appear in two places at once, on their real and virtual channels. Perhaps they are experimenting, and may even be doing something illegal.

Seems to me you shouldn't be getting two physical channel 24s at all. Is the "24.1" one a translator or something?

Try doing a full rescan and see if you still get both. I suspect there's only one signal there, and your tuner is confused.

Sites such as TVFool and Antennaweb.org can't take into account every factor. They are good for estimating what you can get. Sometimes you can do better, sometimes not as good. "Micro" factors such as a large tree, other buildings in the way, pointing the antenna the wrong direction, excessive cable runs/splitters, improper installation, etc. can't be accounted for by these sites.

I understand that. That is why I do not use them but instead just go and install the antenna and see what comes in.

An interesting side note. As I have mentioned I recently moved 2 miles. In both houses I am behind a 2700' peak 3 miles from my location directly between myself and Mt Wilson 35 miles away. In my previous house I was only behind the edge of that peak and there was a pass in the hills 25 degrees to the south. The second signal through the pass resulted in multipath and even strong signals would be unreliable (< 72). To get best reception I would aim my antenna 5-10 degrees to the north of the direct path to reduce the signal from the pass. Now in my new location I am solidly behind that peak and since the multipath is not an issue I get more solid reception on weaker signals (at 64).

Rick R

KVCR-DT is on channel 26 but maps to 24-1. Nobody's receiving two physical channels 24.

- Trip

KVCR-DT is on channel 26 but maps to 24-1. Nobody's receiving two physical channels 24.

- Trip

He says he's getting two sets of KBEH, one that maps to 24 and one that maps to 63. He's not getting KVCR at all. Observe. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16782782#post16782782)

He says he's getting two sets of KBEH, one that maps to 24 and one that maps to 63. He's not getting KVCR at all. Observe. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16782782#post16782782)

Perfectly doable, though I can't see why they'd be doing it. The last TSReader data I got from them even showed them without PSIP on two subchannels in the TVCT. Clearly, two of the subs are mapped and two aren't, thus leading to your situation. Observe:

http://www.rabbitears.info/screencaps/ca-lax/56384-0_0.htm

I was responding to the "two channels 24" comment. If he was getting both KBEH and KVCR, they would be on two different physical channels.

- Trip

He says he's getting two sets of KBEH, one that maps to 24 and one that maps to 63. He's not getting KVCR at all. Observe. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16782782#post16782782)


Who is the "he" here? If you are referring to me, I need to point out that I am getting KVCR as well, as I indicated in my earlier post. It would seem that KBEH is doing something on their end with their real ch 26 mapping to both 24 and 63 as Trip suggested. It is interesting also that the subchannel lineup is different in the two KBEH images; .1 and .2 are transposed, and there is also a 24.3 and 24.4, not present on ch 63.

All,
a quick background: i'm in south orange county, about 47 miles from Mount wilson. before transition, i got ALL the local digital channels (except KCOP and KTLA). Post transition, like most i lost 7, 9 and 11, and 5 still bad (got bad reception, too :) ). this is with a UHF antenna (DB-4) 20 feet up on the chimney.

on a whim, i reconnected my old VHF/UHF antenna in the attic, and i got almost all the local channels again (VHF and UHF). i'm not surprised i got some, but surprised that i got nearly all of them. on a second whim, i joined the two antennas through a combiner, and the reception on some channels really got bad.

does anyone have any ideas? would updating the cables and combiner help? they are all quite old. is there anything i need to add before combining the two signals?

i'm getting close, just a little help and i may remain cable free!

Ditch the DB4 and add an amplifier to the attic antenna? Depends on what exactly you're missing. Successfully combining 2 dissimilar antennas in the same band ranges from difficult to impossible because you need to get everything perfectly in phase or the interference just makes things worse.

thanks, coyoteaz.

i'd hate to junk the DB4, but if the attic antenna can work, the DB4 is gone!

the only issue is that the few channels we can't get with the old attic antenna are ones the wife really likes. that's why i tried to combine the two - between the two antennas, i got all the channels (i wasn't real clear in the first post).

as for an amp, i'm not getting any signal on the missing channels with the old antenna, so wouldn't i be amplifying nothing?

one more thought: if i redirect the DB4 towards san diego, (i am right between LA and SD), would the interference problem go away since they would be receiving entirely different signals?

Signal readings from a tuner often don't give the complete picture. What channels are you missing?

Pointing at San Diego might work, or it might pick up a bounce off the hills and cause the same problems. Remember that KFMB (CBS) and KGTV (ABC) are both on VHF, so you probably won't be picking them up with the DB4 either.

Let each antenna do what it does best.

The combo is probably a better VHF than UHF antenna and the DB4 is certainly a very good UHF antenna.

Use a UVSJ to combine them PROPERLY and you should get your best results.

Just add a switch. Two way. Keep both antennas. You can then both watch what you want to watch by switching antennas.

one more thought: if i redirect the DB4 towards san diego, (i am right between LA and SD), would the interference problem go away since they would be receiving entirely different signals? The interference he was talking about was one antenna signal by the other antenna signal. If they are not combined "in phase" they could actually cancel each other out fully or partially and make things worse. /Dan

All,
a quick background: i'm in south orange county, about 47 miles from Mount wilson. before transition, i got ALL the local digital channels (except KCOP and KTLA). Post transition, like most i lost 7, 9 and 11, and 5 still bad (got bad reception, too :) ). this is with a UHF antenna (DB-4) 20 feet up on the chimney.

on a whim, i reconnected my old VHF/UHF antenna in the attic, and i got almost all the local channels again (VHF and UHF). i'm not surprised i got some, but surprised that i got nearly all of them. on a second whim, i joined the two antennas through a combiner, and the reception on some channels really got bad.

does anyone have any ideas? would updating the cables and combiner help? they are all quite old. is there anything i need to add before combining the two signals?

i'm getting close, just a little help and i may remain cable free!
A conventional RF Splitter/Combiner can cause a mess when combining two dissimilar
antennas. To avoid this, use the UVSJ UHF/VHF Combiner, which only allows UHF
signals on one port and only VHF on the other:
http://yhst-18278607509093.stores.yahoo.net/pico-0389.html
http://www.markertek.com/CATV-Headend-Interface/RF-Splitters/Pico-Macom-Inc/UVSJ.xhtml
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=UVSJ
[Check shipping charges for the best buy....]
So you can use the combo as a VHF-only antenna and the DB-4 for UHF-only.

IF you are using a mast mounted Preamp with the DB-4, you would need to use
a UHF/VHF Combiner with DC Pass Thru, such as Antennas Direct EU385CF:
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=ANTDRCT-COMBNR

Try replacing the 20" wide reflector on your 4221 with a 36" wide reflector. I purchased a 25' roll of the 1x2 screen, and I've swapped out reflectors on half-a-dozen 4221's here in El Lay. The wider reflector was all that was needed to receive vhf-hi channels with a 4221, and, this afternoon, all the modified 4221 are receiving KABC-DT.

For non-4221 4-bays, where replacing the existing reflector is more than a 5 minute job, I attached horizontal 36" rods to the existing reflector using small U-bolts. It's not as elegant as replacing the reflector, but it also works.

Great Fix Arbie, Many thanks.
After having solid OTA HD before the switch, & very little after, I thought I was going to have to buy a new antenna, even though my CM4221 was under a year old.
The 1x2 screen was available from OSH & I only had stiffen the vertical sides (with 1/2" U aluminum) to stop the 'curl' .
One other change had to be made - I had to remove my mast-head amp. A little counter-intuitive that, but now I have 65+ full strength OTA channels. All I have to do now is learn Korean......

all,
thanks for the quick and clear responses. i will get a UVSJ as soon as i can and hope that is the final fix.

thanks again.

I live down in San Diego on Point Loma, a penninsula that rises about 250' above the ocean, my Channel Master CM 4228 on is on a 20' mast (total height above the water is 270'). Based on www.antennafool.com KCET-DT on channel 28 is direct line-of-sight mostly over the ocean and should have a noise margin of 18.1 dB. Before the transition I never had a problem receiving KCET analog at channel 28 or KCET-DT when it was located on channel 59. After the transition KCET-DT on channel 28 does not come in. However, KFTR-DT (46.1 channel 29) along the same bearing and with a transmitter 0.3 miles from KCETs transmitter, pegs my signal meter, the noise margin is 24.4 dB. Could KFTR's much stronger adjacent signal be interfering with KCET's? Is there a way I could confirm this?

I live down in San Diego on Point Loma, a penninsula that rises about 250' above the ocean, my Channel Master CM 4228 on is on a 20' mast (total height above the water is 270'). Based on www.antennafool.com KCET-DT on channel 28 is direct line-of-sight mostly over the ocean and should have a noise margin of 18.1 dB. Before the transition I never had a problem receiving KCET analog at channel 28 or KCET-DT when it was located on channel 59. After the transition KCET-DT on channel 28 does not come in. However, KFTR-DT (46.1 channel 29) along the same bearing and with a transmitter 0.3 miles from KCETs transmitter, pegs my signal meter, the noise margin is 24.4 dB. Could KFTR's much stronger adjacent signal be interfering with KCET's? Is there a way I could confirm this?

Actually, I find reception of KCET to be much improved since the move with a much more stable signal strength, but I still lose it occasionally, especially during prime-time hours. The higher UHF frequencies like ch 59, I think, tend to be just too "volatile" and sensitive to atmospheric effects for reliable DTV use, unless there is a perfect line-of-sight path. Still, KCET has one of the worst signals of any local LA station. I hope they will finally get their act together; I understand they have petitioned the FCC for a major power increase. Like most DTV stations, I receive KFTR-DT just fine here.

I live down in San Diego on Point Loma, a penninsula that rises about 250' above the ocean, my Channel Master CM 4228 on is on a 20' mast (total height above the water is 270'). Based on www.antennafool.com KCET-DT on channel 28 is direct line-of-sight mostly over the ocean and should have a noise margin of 18.1 dB. Before the transition I never had a problem receiving KCET analog at channel 28 or KCET-DT when it was located on channel 59. After the transition KCET-DT on channel 28 does not come in. However, KFTR-DT (46.1 channel 29) along the same bearing and with a transmitter 0.3 miles from KCETs transmitter, pegs my signal meter, the noise margin is 24.4 dB. Could KFTR's much stronger adjacent signal be interfering with KCET's? Is there a way I could confirm this?
Could you post the results url from www.tvfool.com (uhh...antennafool doesn't exist...)?

XHJK-DT is also on CH28 (location in T.J., same as XETV)....F/B wouldn't be enough.
XHTIT-DT is also on adjacent CH29...different location.
For more info: http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/messages/1/7310.html?1246498193

Any idea whether you are receiving KBEH from their old analog location North of Ventura
(up to 85 kW) and/or their new location on Mt Wilson (up to 1000 kW)???

FCC TVQ entry for KBEH:
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=56384

Coverage maps for ALL stations in L.A. & S.D. areas:
http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/maps_current/Los_Angeles_CA.pdf
http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/maps_current/San_Diego_CA.pdf

BTW: TVFool updated post-transition transmitter icons for display in GoogleEarth:
http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=16
They currently assume 0.001 kW from Mt Wilson.....NOT!!!!

Thanks for the info. I now get 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, and 28 solid. Only 18 occasionally does not come in solid. I was glad to see that 18 has applied to increase their power 6 fold. That should solve its problem. (My wife likes 18).

Rick R

Could you post the results url from www.tvfool.com (uhh...antennafool doesn't exist...)?

XHJK-DT is also on CH28 (location in T.J., same as XETV)....F/B wouldn't be enough.
XHTIT-DT is also on adjacent CH29...different location.
For more info: http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/messages/1/7310.html?1246498193

Here are the results from tvfool (you can just call me AVS Forum fool)
By the way KPXN 30.1 just under KCET in the list comes in just fine.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s270/mdputnam/tvfool-1.jpg

KBEH's 63-2 now has a short loop advertising the imminent arrival of their second program stream. I can't read much Spanish but it doesn't seem to say anything about what their programming plans are. It's got a video bitrate of around 4.25 Mbps but looks considerably worse than that - very blocky and artifacty. Like 63-1, it's in SD stretch-o-vision. Their two "mystery streams" of colorbars seem to have disappeared.

And 18-4, CGN-TV is now on the air with all your favorite Korean-language Christian programming. Black level's too high, but otherwise it looks pretty good.

The 63.2 "coming soon" loop is actually bilingual. After it runs through in Spanish, it does so in English. Basically it just says that more programming options are coming soon.

Anybody know anything about KHIZ and Retro Television? KHIZ is listed as being part of the network, but it seems that all the station shows is the Multicultural Broadcasting primetime block and infomercials the rest of the day.

Anybody know anything about KHIZ and Retro Television? KHIZ is listed as being part of the network, but it seems that all the station shows is the Multicultural Broadcasting primetime block and infomercials the rest of the day.

KHIZ has eight subchannels, and each of these is carrying entirely different program material! It is fuctioning as a relay for other stations, with different call signs. Which subchannel did you have in mind?

Only one I get is the regular KHIZ which is probably 64.1. There is no mention of these other channels on the local listings on Zap2it or TitanTV. What are the names and/or programming for the other 7 subchannels? Is Retro TV on one of these subchannels?

It looks like the KCBS/2 nightlight just ended. So goes the last of the analog full power stations here, but I still get 8 LP's. How many will we be looking at a year from now?

Two Stations: TBN on 45. KIMG-LP 23 going to 17. Still dark.

I must have been among the last to get the KCBS-2 nightlight signal Sunday, 2248z, as 59.750 MHz audio with a Southern California Lincoln-Mercury dealer spot between the bilingual NAB DTV psa loops.
http://www.qsl.net/wa5iyx/KCBS-2.txt it was a nice 49-years of getting them here in San Antonio.
http://www.qsl.net/wa5iyx/images/knxt-60.jpg from 1960
http://www.qsl.net/wa5iyx/ra/knxt74-a.ra audio clip from 1974
http://www.qsl.net/wa5iyx/images/75b101.jpg crude photo with crude camera from May 28, 1975

Now I am only getting analog on channels 6 (San Diego), 25, 27 (strong), 33 (very weak and unintelligible), 45 (KSKJ) and 67. Apparently XETV 6 is still able to continue analog broadcasting, since its transmitter is in Mexico.

Only one I get is the regular KHIZ which is probably 64.1. There is no mention of these other channels on the local listings on Zap2it or TitanTV. What are the names and/or programming for the other 7 subchannels? Is Retro TV on one of these subchannels?

You were right. What I was describing was KXLA. Confusion arises because both stations "use" ch 44. KHIZ transmits on ch 44 and appears on ch 64. KXLA on the other hand, transmits on ch 51 but appears on virtual 44. It is KXLA that has eight subchannels. I cannot receive KHIZ here at all.

Is anyone out there tuning fewer channels since the DTV switch was pulled? I have noticed that on both my tuners I am no longer able to receive numerous channels (2, 9, 11, and 13 specifically) and the only thing that has changed was that the transition came and went. I am in Downey, 19 miles from Mt. Wilson and using Silver Sensors, which have been working flawlessly until recently. Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks.

Is anyone out there tuning fewer channels since the DTV switch was pulled? I have noticed that on both my tuners I am no longer able to receive numerous channels (2, 9, 11, and 13 specifically) and the only thing that has changed was that the transition came and went. I am in Downey, 19 miles from Mt. Wilson and using Silver Sensors, which have been working flawlessly until recently. Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks.You did rescan the tuners? 2 and 9 are same owners and did some swapping at the change (9's UHF channel became 2's new digital UHF channel and digital 9 took over analog 9 channel and 2 gave up their digital UHF channel). 11 and 13 went off their digital UHF channels and replaced their analog 11/13 with digital 11/13 and were a lot weaker, but have improved as they get things adjusted. Confusing, but a rescan should solve all. /Dan

I've done several rescans but I get the same results, still with fewer channels than before. Would it be worthwhile to invest in an amp at this point?

Is anyone out there tuning fewer channels since the DTV switch was pulled? I have noticed that on both my tuners I am no longer able to receive numerous channels (2, 9, 11, and 13 specifically) and the only thing that has changed was that the transition came and went. I am in Downey, 19 miles from Mt. Wilson and using Silver Sensors, which have been working flawlessly until recently. Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks.
If you are using the original UHF-only Silver Sensor without RabbitEar elements,
then you don't have much of an antenna to receive CH7-13, which are now in the
Hi-VHF band. Virtual CH2.1 is on Real CH43 and should be receivable, same as
any other UHF channel....maybe you need to rescan as you try different locations.

The fol. amplified Silver Sensor has RabbitEars:
http://www.amazon.com/Philips-PHDTV3-Indoor-Amplified-Antenna/dp/B000B58VNM
There are numerous other Indoor VHF/UHF Antennas to chose from:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1037779

Before buying, you might try an old set of RabbitEars just to see if they'll work....

You could also add a Hi-VHF antenna (e.g. RabbitEars, Folded Dipole, et.al.) to
the UHF-only Silver Sensor, using a UVSJ Combiner:
http://yhst-18278607509093.stores.yahoo.net/pico-0389.html

I've done several rescans but I get the same results, still with fewer channels than before. Would it be worthwhile to invest in an amp at this point?

Another suggestion: Try unhooking the antenna completely and doing a full scan to clear the memory. Then hook the antenna back up and full scan again.

If that doesn't work, go through the same routine, only this time unplug the tuner and wait 30 minutes before scanning again with the antenna.

Sounds silly, but this is what works with some tuners. Should get your 2 back again, even if your Silver Sensor is the one that's UHF only.

For the other channels, you gotta have a dual-band antenna.

What was going on with channel 24 KVCR Sunday night. Normally it is my worst channel being hardly watchable 50% of the time. Last night it was my strongest channel with 98% signal strength and a SNR of 30. Today its back to being crap. I am located in Santa Monica 90403 using a Tivax STB-T9 conected to a DTA-5000.

Well, this is a first. I'm getting some analog DX on 2. I can't quite tell what it is, but would imagine it's coming from Mexico. Anyone else seeing this?

It has faded out now, but I will be checking it from time to time.

Actually, I thought the logo looked like a CBC logo, but the audio was mixed. I thought I was hearing Spanish, but then English too. Canada... If so, I wonder where from?

I raced upstairs to record the event as my HTPC wasn't up. It was definitely in English, at least the part I recorded. Attached is a cap, but I saw the CBC logo before I was able to record. I will try and get a better one.

Edit: After I went downstairs, I figured out why I was hearing Spanish as well. The receiver was set to the DTV Pal DVR, which was on KMEX. The TV was set to 2 and used its own speaker.

I'm guessing this was CBUT, CBC out of Vancouver, on 2. Looking at the CBC site, the programming for the time slot was Triple Sensation:

http://www.cbc.ca/triplesensation/

Since they were speaking and then signing, this would make sense. Assuming that CBC delays programming for different time zones, this would indicate a full power CBC on 2 in the Pacific Zone. I'm guessing that CBUT is the only such candidate from BC.

There's a Spanish language infomercial running on 63-2 right now. Stretch-o-vision, VERY washed out blacks, the general fuzziness we've come to expect from all our off-brand SD stations (what's up with that?), and unlike MTV Tr3s, the audio is stereo (that too?).

Bitrate is bobbing around 4.25 Mbps for video (704x480) and sitting at 192 kbps for audio. Enjoy.

If anybody cares, I just noticed that Retro TV is on KHIZ only between the hours of 1pm-5pm. That is why I never found it. Guess all those infomericals shown during the rest of the day must be paying the station more than they can get from Retro.

Well, this is a first. I'm getting some analog DX on 2. I can't quite tell what it is, but would imagine it's coming from Mexico. Anyone else seeing this?

It has faded out now, but I will be checking it from time to time.

Actually, I thought the logo looked like a CBC logo, but the audio was mixed. I thought I was hearing Spanish, but then English too. Canada... If so, I wonder where from?

I raced upstairs to record the event as my HTPC wasn't up. It was definitely in English, at least the part I recorded. Attached is a cap, but I saw the CBC logo before I was able to record. I will try and get a better one.

Edit: After I went downstairs, I figured out why I was hearing Spanish as well. The receiver was set to the DTV Pal DVR, which was on KMEX. The TV was set to 2 and used its own speaker.

I'm guessing this was CBUT, CBC out of Vancouver, on 2. Looking at the CBC site, the programming for the time slot was Triple Sensation:

http://www.cbc.ca/triplesensation/

Since they were speaking and then signing, this would make sense. Assuming that CBC delays programming for different time zones, this would indicate a full power CBC on 2 in the Pacific Zone. I'm guessing that CBUT is the only such candidate from BC.

Very interesting! Yes, this is entirely possible, especially on ch 2. As you know, this is because ch 2 is low enough in frequency to share some of the characteristics of shortwave radio communication, but only when conditions are just right. The 6 meter amateur radio band is immediately below ch 2, and DX activity is commonplace there when conditions are favorable. I remember seeing some DX TV stations as well, years ago. These DX openings tend to be short-lived, however.

What I find especially interesting, is the fact that your DX came in at the present time, when sunspot activity is so low, extremely low! This probably rules out the more usual F2 propagation (reflection by the F2 layer of the ionosphere), since it is largely dependent on sunspot activity. This leaves the possibility of sporadic-E propagation, which is not sunspot-dependent, but short-lived. No wonder the signal did not last long!

I will keep watching it, but let's hope that 2-5 remain open locally. I am aware of some LD's apps for 2-3, but I think 2 was for Ontario. An LD 3 from Mt. Wilson would probably remove much of the chances for E-Skip (on 3 at least), unless the skip is strong enough to overcome it.

Hopefully, full power stations won't try pulling the stunt of setting up shop on 2-5, just for cable/sat carriage. This is happening in NYC and Philly.

Just what we need, virtual broadcast stations... yet another reason that 2-6 should be gone.

I will keep watching it, but let's hope that 2-5 remain open locally. I am aware of some LD's apps for 2-3, but I think 2 was for Ontario. An LD 3 from Mt. Wilson would probably remove much of the chances for E-Skip (on 3 at least), unless the skip is strong enough to overcome it.

Hopefully, full power stations won't try pulling the stunt of setting up shop on 2-5, just for cable/sat carriage. This is happening in NYC and Philly.

Just what we need, virtual broadcast stations... yet another reason that 2-6 should be gone.

It will be very interesting to see what shows up. I may do some watching myself. By the way, another interesting possibility I just thought of to look for is meteor scatter. 6 meter DX is possible at times when signals are reflected by plasma trails left by meteors entering the upper atmosphere. There are many meteor showers throughout the year. The next major one will be the δ Aquarids during July 26-31 and then the really big one, the Perseids on August 10-14, with the peak around August 12-13. There is a small shower now, the α Cygnids. I would expect that the most favorable time of day for meteor scatter would be during the early morning hours.

I am finished trying to get the High VHF Digital stations (7, 9, 11 and 13). I get perfect UHF Digital stations with my Clearstream 4 through the 7777. Tried the Clearstream 5 and barely had any signal. Now, I got the Y5-7-13 and I have no signal still on the High VHF stations. Yes, I tried aiming it all around. Yes, I rescanned. Yes my switch is on the 7777. Yes I had perfect UHF for all the channels before the switch.

I guess I can try a 15' antenna just for those 4 channels while a small 28" antenna works perfect for UHF.


http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d74fa760b64bf73

Oh.

My.

God.

KJLA has added a 9th subchannel. 57-9, currently running Jewelry Television.

Oh.

My.

God.

KJLA has added a 9th subchannel. 57-9, currently running Jewelry Television.
Welp, that's a record at least in LA. I didn't think anyone was going to top KSCI-18 with their 7. The quality across KJLA's channels isn't all that bad either. Some of KSCI's subchannels have more boxes than a moving company.

Welp, that's a record at least in LA. I didn't think anyone was going to top KSCI-18 with their 7. The quality across KJLA's channels isn't all that bad either. Some of KSCI's subchannels have more boxes than a moving company.

That is indeed a new record. The runner up is KXLA 44 with eight, then followed by KSCI 18 with its 7.

Another suggestion: Try unhooking the antenna completely and doing a full scan to clear the memory. Then hook the antenna back up and full scan again.


Another solution is resetting the TV back to factory defaults and then rescan. Many TVs have that option in the menu.

Of course if you have calibrated settings on your TV then you should write them down first.

I am finished trying to get the High VHF Digital stations (7, 9, 11 and 13). I get perfect UHF Digital stations with my Clearstream 4 through the 7777. Tried the Clearstream 5 and barely had any signal. Now, I got the Y5-7-13 and I have no signal still on the High VHF stations. Yes, I tried aiming it all around. Yes, I rescanned. Yes my switch is on the 7777. Yes I had perfect UHF for all the channels before the switch.

I guess I can try a 15' antenna just for those 4 channels while a small 28" antenna works perfect for UHF.


http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d74fa760b64bf73


I figured earlier-on that your location was somehow snake-bit for VHF when the C5 didn't work out for you. FWIW, it was tested upon its return and was performing extremely well. As the tech who tested it said, "That's a hot one" meaning it was receiving stronger than some of the others he had tested.

I guess that apartment building 100' in front of you or that metal guttering over your balcony may be factors.

Keep in mind that the TVfool's modeling cannot take into account anything under a 100 meter resolution along the path and does not take into consideration local obstacles or the conditions at the receiving location.

Hope your can work it out. In the meantime, raise heck with the stations about the lack of reception.

I figured earlier-on that your location was somehow snake-bit for VHF when the C5 didn't work out for you. FWIW, it was tested upon its return and was performing extremely well. As the tech who tested it said, "That's a hot one" meaning it was receiving stronger than some of the others he had tested.

I guess that apartment building 100' in front of you or that metal guttering over your balcony may be factors.

Keep in mind that the TVfool's modeling cannot take into account anything under a 100 meter resolution along the path and does not take into consideration local obstacles or the conditions at the receiving location.

Hope your can work it out. In the meantime, raise heck with the stations about the lack of reception.

Thanks for the info. With that C5, I was VERY close. Never received 7 with it but was right at the edge of 9, 11 and 13. It was at the minimum required signal. Any changes and it would lose signal.

The other day, I was actually getting a signal from Ch. 7 on my C4 and enough for a few seconds of picture. I was surprised with this.

I highly recommend the C4 for UHF reception. I just wish there was something for my High VHF reception (without buying an antenna the same lenght as my entire patio.)

I figured earlier-on that your location was somehow snake-bit for VHF when the C5 didn't work out for you. FWIW, it was tested upon its return and was performing extremely well. As the tech who tested it said, "That's a hot one" meaning it was receiving stronger than some of the others he had tested.

I guess that apartment building 100' in front of you or that metal guttering over your balcony may be factors.

Keep in mind that the TVfool's modeling cannot take into account anything under a 100 meter resolution along the path and does not take into consideration local obstacles or the conditions at the receiving location.

Hope your can work it out. In the meantime, raise heck with the stations about the lack of reception.


Would you have the actual gains for the antenna I sent back? I feel I was very close with that C5 and if I can find another antenna that has a little more gain, I think I would be fine (at least for 9-13...not sure about 7).

Thanks.

I am finished trying to get the High VHF Digital stations (7, 9, 11 and 13). I get perfect UHF Digital stations with my Clearstream 4 through the 7777. Tried the Clearstream 5 and barely had any signal. Now, I got the Y5-7-13 and I have no signal still on the High VHF stations. Yes, I tried aiming it all around. Yes, I rescanned. Yes my switch is on the 7777. Yes I had perfect UHF for all the channels before the switch.

I guess I can try a 15' antenna just for those 4 channels while a small 28" antenna works perfect for UHF.


http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d74fa760b64bf73

It would be interesting to connect a spectrum analyzer to your antennas. This would give you a clear picture of what signals you were actually receiving and what levels they all were in comparison to one another. I have the luxury of owning one, and there is no better instrument to have if you are dealing with TV reception or satellite reception issues.

I am amazed because it never comes up in the forums, and people are left with trusting the signal meter or some other poor form of measuring the signal. If you would just use a spectrum analyzer, you can actually see RF energy on the scope, and measure it! Don't give up on the VHF signals.

Telemundo HD picture quality (KVEA)

While doing some tests tonight, w/o my pre-amp, I happened to notice a program on KVEA that has looked better than anything I've seen recently.

Attached is a sample pic.

KVEA runs an SD sub of the same programming, but it doesn't seem to be a problem. I would say that this at least rivals KCBS and KCAL.

KVEA has had HD for a while, so I wonder if anything has changed or if it's just the program production.

Can anyone else take a look at their HD programming to see how it compares with the others? Thanks.

Telemundo HD picture quality (KVEA)

While doing some tests tonight, w/o my pre-amp, I happened to notice a program on KVEA that has looked better than anything I've seen recently.

Attached is a sample pic.

KVEA runs an SD sub of the same programming, but it doesn't seem to be a problem. I would say that this at least rivals KCBS and KCAL.

KVEA has had HD for a while, so I wonder if anything has changed or if it's just the program production.

Can anyone else take a look at their HD programming to see how it compares with the others? Thanks.Hmm, my KVEA-SD shows HD but KVEA-HD shows HD (Ninos Ricos Pobres Padres looked blurry to me). Did KVEA recently switched? I haven't updated my channel list for a few weeks.

Would you have the actual gains for the antenna I sent back? I feel I was very close with that C5 and if I can find another antenna that has a little more gain, I think I would be fine (at least for 9-13...not sure about 7).

Thanks.


I don't think the actual gain was measured. It was an A-B comparison with a basic combo antenna of known performance (V10) that used in the comparison.

Hmm, my KVEA-SD shows HD but KVEA-HD shows HD (Ninos Ricos Pobres Padres looked blurry to me). Did KVEA recently switched? I haven't updated my channel list for a few weeks.

I just checked and the HD channel (52.1) is showing HD and the SD channel is showing SD (52.2), at least on my setup.

I haven't used Imageshack in a while, but here is a link to another image from last night's program. The full size image should be available.

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/6749/0715h21m09filekveahd0.th.jpg (http://img23.imageshack.us/i/0715h21m09filekveahd0.jpg/)

The news looks good this morning, but my Vista computer only takes lower resolution pictures. I've never figured out why, but it must be some sort of DRM. At least the HTPC is still XP!

Edit: They have some dancing/signing thing going on right now and the quality isn't as good with motion, so perhaps the sub is hurting after all. Talking head programming isn't taxing on bandwidth.

In other news, KTTV's CP for 115kW was granted. It will be elliptical and will have beam tilt focused on the LA basin. Hopefully, this will help resolve some of the remaining issues.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1321655&Service=DT&Form_id=301&Facility_id=22208
https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=771553&formid=301&q_num=5420

Now, the question is how long will Fox wait to build-out KTTV and KCOP's new facilities.

KCOP already seems to be doing well since the last change.

It would be interesting to connect a spectrum analyzer to your antennas. This would give you a clear picture of what signals you were actually receiving and what levels they all were in comparison to one another. I have the luxury of owning one, and there is no better instrument to have if you are dealing with TV reception or satellite reception issues.

I am amazed because it never comes up in the forums, and people are left with trusting the signal meter or some other poor form of measuring the signal. If you would just use a spectrum analyzer, you can actually see RF energy on the scope, and measure it! Don't give up on the VHF signals.
How much is your spectrum analyzer and where did you purchase it?

Rudy

The news looks good this morning, but my Vista computer only takes lower resolution pictures. I've never figured out why, but it must be some sort of DRM. At least the HTPC is still XP!

It is done to prevent someone from writing a program that simply takes screen shots at the right timing and makes a 1:1 digital copy of the DRM content without protection... It is very annoying in my opinion......

I just checked KVEA-HD, and although it is now 1080i, it is showing 4:3 SD material, as many stations also do. Since they were showing an in-studio news program, I assume that they are not yet set up to show 16:9 HD material.

While the picture itself was SD upscaled to 1080i, it still looks much sharper than the KVEA-SD version on 52.2. KVEA is very srong here, registering 100%.

I just checked KVEA-HD, and although it is now 1080i, it is showing 4:3 SD material, as many stations also do. Since they were showing an in-studio news program, I assume that they are not yet set up to show 16:9 HD material.

You assume wrong. See Falcon_77's screen shot above.

It is done to prevent someone from writing a program that simply takes screen shots at the right timing and makes a 1:1 digital copy of the DRM content without protection... It is very annoying in my opinion......

Thanks.

What is more annoying is that it removes every other line in Vista, so I have to adjust the ratio of the pictures as well. The screen caps are squashed by default. I really wish my laptop didn't have Vista, but going back to XP would have been too much trouble w/o drivers being made available for it.

KVEA-HD has been showing HD content at times, though not all of it is HD (as with all HD channels). The screen caps I took were of an HD programming and the news was HD this morning.

You assume wrong. See Falcon_77's screen shot above.

So it is. I do not understand why they don't show local in-studio news in HD unless they are too cheap to buy HD cameras. The PQ I saw was far from HD.

...The news looks good this morning, but my Vista computer only takes lower resolution pictures. I've never figured out why, but it must be some sort of DRM. At least the HTPC is still XP! ...



I remember trying to do a "Print Screen" of a "freeze-frame" image in a DVD movie. All I could get was an ugly, uniform brown area in the saved image. I came to the same conclusion. This was done using XP Professional.

It would be interesting to connect a spectrum analyzer to your antennas. This would give you a clear picture of what signals you were actually receiving and what levels they all were in comparison to one another. I have the luxury of owning one, and there is no better instrument to have if you are dealing with TV reception or satellite reception issues.



Since you have the device and know how to use it; would you consider making house calls? (here in LA of course)

Thanks.

What is more annoying is that it removes every other line in Vista, so I have to adjust the ratio of the pictures as well. The screen caps are squashed by default. I really wish my laptop didn't have Vista, but going back to XP would have been too much trouble w/o drivers being made available for it.

KVEA-HD has been showing HD content at times, though not all of it is HD (as with all HD channels). The screen caps I took were of an HD programming and the news was HD this morning.

I have not tested this thought. But I wonder if you could properly take screen shots in VLC under Vista.(since VLC actually renders the screen shots itself, not the OS) I would not think it would have the same limits of how the actual screen shots are in Vista (done at the video driver level) Might be something to test.

But I wonder if you could properly take screen shots in VLC under Vista.

Thanks. The On-Air GT saves the videos in .trp format, which I would assume is proprietary. Perhaps there are other options, but I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't due to DRM issues. I will see what I can find out.

I've also been looking for a simple video editor for the old analog end videos I took on 6/12. All I'd really need is something that will remove the last 10 minutes of snow, etc. I have yet to try You Tube, however. All these social network sites frighten a "hermit" engineer type like me. :D

I also have the CBC E-skip video that I would like to save/upload somehow.

I've also been looking for a simple video editor for the old analog end videos I took on 6/12. All I'd really need is something that will remove the last 10 minutes of snow, etc. I have yet to try You Tube, however. All these social network sites frighten a "hermit" engineer type like me. :D

I also have the CBC E-skip video that I would like to save/upload somehow.

VideoReDo is what I use to edit tv. Both SD and HD. It is a great program and I have edited countless hours of programming with it. Simple as it can be to use too (because I am computer consultant by day, I HATE hard to figure out software that I have to spend hours to figure out, VRD is NOT!)

(It can do screen shots as well, and I would assume DRM free screen shots too boot!)

How much is your spectrum analyzer and where did you purchase it?

Rudy

This item number is for the exact make and model of Spectrum Analyzer that I use. It appears to be in good working condition, and a very good price currently of $355.00 This is a good reliable scope. 280371422495

This item number is for the exact make and model of Spectrum Analyzer that I use. It appears to be in good working condition, and a very good price currently of $355.00 This is a good reliable scope. 280371422495

Note that it is tested to power up ONLY. If it actually works (and you take your chances on that) this would be an amazing deal as other prices are from $4000 to $7000. (If it sounds too good to be true, it usually is.)

Thanks. The On-Air GT saves the videos in .trp format, which I would assume is proprietary. Perhaps there are other options, but I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't due to DRM issues. I will see what I can find out.I believe .trp files are actually .ts files, with a slightly different wrapper or header. It's the identical transport stream data, including program information about the audio and video contents.

This is not a proprietary format. It is the industry standard MPEG-2 datastream used for HD.

Don't ask me why there are two equivalent extensions for the identical file content.

In fact, they are actually identical and compatible with any program capable of reading either .ts or .trp. In fact you can just rename them, to feed one program or another which only accepts one file type or another.

===>> there is no difference between .trp and .ts, both of which are "raw" datastreams.


NOTE: CapDVHS and VideoLAN (VLC) can create .ts files for the capture (from firewire datastreams). VideoReDo can read/edit .ts files (frame-accurate), and can save the edited output as .ts or MPEG2. VirtualDub can then read those MPEG2 files and compress them into AVI, etc. using filters, plug-ins, deinterlace to progressive, etc., to produce whatever you want... suitable for video clips on your computer, output to DVD, etc.

Another suggestion: Try unhooking the antenna completely and doing a full scan to clear the memory. Then hook the antenna back up and full scan again.

If that doesn't work, go through the same routine, only this time unplug the tuner and wait 30 minutes before scanning again with the antenna.

Sounds silly, but this is what works with some tuners. Should get your 2 back again, even if your Silver Sensor is the one that's UHF only.

For the other channels, you gotta have a dual-band antenna.

I too lost 2.1 after the transition, I tried re-scanning with the antenna disconnected hoping this will clear the memory, then reconnected the antenna hoping to acquire either 2.1 or 43.1, I was able to momentarily tune to 43.1 but could not lock in to the signal. I use 2.1 or 43 (CBS) to provide my Sony DHG 250 DVR with TV Guide On Screen (TVGOS) program information. I was able to lock in to 2.1 prior to the transition. I am hesitant to unplug the unit since I will lose the correct time and if this happens, I won't be able to manually record shows.

Does anybody have a suggestion for a good VHF/UHF Antenna? I live in Fullerton, CA 92833 about 30 miles from Mt. Wilson. I am looking at the Clearstream 2 but I am not sure if this is also a VHF Antenna? Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

I too lost 2.1 after the transition, I tried re-scanning with the antenna disconnected hoping this will clear the memory, then reconnected the antenna hoping to acquire either 2.1 or 43.1, I was able to momentarily tune to 43.1 but could not lock in to the signal. I use 2.1 or 43 (CBS) to provide my Sony DHG 250 DVR with TV Guide On Screen (TVGOS) program information. I was able to lock in to 2.1 prior to the transition. I am hesitant to unplug the unit since I will lose the correct time and if this happens, I won't be able to manually record shows.

Does anybody have a suggestion for a good VHF/UHF Antenna? I live in Fullerton, CA 92833 about 30 miles from Mt. Wilson. I am looking at the Clearstream 2 but I am not sure if this is also a VHF Antenna? Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Either the Antennas Craft HBU22 or the Winegard HD-7694P would be a good antenna for you area. If you split the signal more then 2 times, a distribution amp may be need, but a pre-amp should be unneeded.)

This item number is for the exact make and model of Spectrum Analyzer that I use. It appears to be in good working condition, and a very good price currently of $355.00 This is a good reliable scope. 280371422495
Well I think this in a way answers your question, earlier as to why so many of us don't use such a device. Even at that price that's a lot of dough to spend on something that you will only use once. Plus a function which most TVs duplicate albeit to a less convenient and functional extent.

Rudy

Well I think this in a way answers your question, earlier as to why so many of us don't use such a device. Even at that price that's a lot of dough to spend on something that you will only use once. Plus a function which most TVs duplicate albeit to a less convenient and functional extent.

Rudy

No, actually you can find a lot of uses for a spectrum analyzer. Also, I think $355.00 is very reasonable. It is true of test equipment that you don't use them every single day, but when you do need them, they can be indispensible.

40 years ago state-of-the-art HP spectrum analyzers went for around $8k new.
http://www.hpmemory.org/wb_pages/wall_b_page_04.htm
Those units now are almost considered boatanchors, but some working units turn up at basement bargain prices and do well for VHF-UHF TV broadcast band coverage.

.

Does anybody have a suggestion for a good VHF/UHF Antenna? I live in Fullerton, CA 92833 about 30 miles from Mt. Wilson. I am looking at the Clearstream 2 but I am not sure if this is also a VHF Antenna? Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

I live right next to Fullerton.

I now got KTTV and KCOP just fine. Two days ago I did a "Add Digital Channels" on my Sony TV, and it added KTTV as "Ch. 11.3" for some reason, and KCOP was added as well. So now I got ALL the channels no problem.

The antenna I am using is Artec AN1, I paid about $10 when it was on sale. You can get Artec AN2 (looks exactly the same, review saids it's just a tid bit larger) for $15.99 at

http://www.meritline.com/indoor-hdtv-antenna-retail---p-27918.aspx?show=all&

A lot of people have luck with this simple looking but effective antenna. I would suggest you try this before you put money in a more expensive antenna.

40 years ago state-of-the-art HP spectrum analyzers went for around $8k new.
http://www.hpmemory.org/wb_pages/wall_b_page_04.htm
Those units now are almost considered boatanchors, but some working units turn up at basement bargain prices and do well for VHF-UHF TV broadcast band coverage.

An excellent suggestion. Thank you for the heads-up.

Best air temperature appears to be below 60 degrees f. Get about 45 channels. Kilowatt from about 100 KW to 1000KW. As temperature heats up the lower KW channels start dropping off: 100 KW. Heats up more 200-400 KW. To the middle of the day leaving 1000KW. So, in the fringe the viewing area for 100-400KW transmission must shrink over the greater Los Angeles area during the day and expand at night and when it is cold.

June Gloom for tv is not necessarily gloom.

Best air temperature appears to be below 60 degrees f. Get about 45 channels. Kilowatt from about 100 KW to 1000KW. As temperature heats up the lower KW channels start dropping off: 100 KW. Heats up more 200-400 KW. To the middle of the day leaving 1000KW. So, in the fringe the viewing area for 100-400KW transmission must shrink over the greater Los Angeles area during the day and expand at night and when it is cold.

June Gloom for tv is not necessarily gloom.

Interesting observations. The best long distance TV reception (both VHF and UHF) occurs during the summer and early fall when there is an inversion layer, which provides a "skip" effect. Long distance conditions do seem to deteriorate in very hot weather, though. During periods of "June Gloom", however, conditions seem more like those during the winter.

It would be interesting to see how the temperature humidity weather affects the viewing area for OTA on the fringe. At 60 degrees f. expect the signal to reach most, if not all areas. Above 60 degree f. should start losing areas for broadcasters transmitting well below 1000KW. At 1000KW weather does not appear to be a factor due to transmission power.

Question would be at what point does the viewing area start shrinking, and by how much?

It used to be thought that daytime heating broke up the inversion/ducting, but it many cases it now seems like it elevates it so that it no longer is in contact with the HAGL at the xmtr and rcvr antenna locations. Here in the Gulf of Mexico area the effects of inland disruption/reformation (due to the faster heating/cooling over ground vs water) are striking compared to those at coastal locations. Sometimes in those areas it would persist all day long. From this area in Texas (San Antonio) there are no complications of an intervening range of hills/mountains - it's all "downhill" from c. 800' HASL 120-150 miles to the Gulf.
http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo_car.html
http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo_wam.html

And when long-distance skip is present, it may not be a simple matter of a simple, circular viewing area expanding and contracting, but there may be also a larger, concentric ring of good reception with a dead-zone in between, as one might expect with ionospheric propagation on a much larger scale at lower (mostly HF) frequences.

Hey everyone, not sure if anyone else is having this issue. I am using the DB2 Multi Directional HDTV Antenna to get HD OTA in Northridge. Ever since the Analog Sig was cut, I've lost channels 11 & 13. Anyone know why? I'm using a diplexor to merge my Directv and OTA into one run a good 75 feet or so to my tv. Could a signal booster be the solution?

Thanks,
~Zach

You will need to add a high-band VHF antenna to your set-up. A small one, such as the Y5-7-13 may be sufficient.

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=Y5-7-13

Are you receiving 7 and 9 with the DB2? They are also VHF, but are circularly polarized, which may be helping.

I would also recommend checking a TVFool.com plot to verify your predicted signal strengths.

7/9/11 & 13 moved back to VHF on 6/12-13/09. 2, 4 & 5 remained on UHF.

This is a common problem.

Note that both 11 and 13 have construction permits to increase power and to add a vertical component. This may help as well, but I don't know how long it will be before those facilities could be constructed.

Hmm, TVfool says I'm in the green for all channels.

So if I got that additional antenna, I would need one of these it says?
http://www.showmecables.com/viewItem.asp?idProduct=1883

Yes, but I don't know why that one says it's a push-on. I use these:

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=UVSJ

The wiring in my house is a little messed up as far as connections go, we rent. So I use this on the window sil in my office into my computer for WMC http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=109&cp_id=10901&cs_id=1090101&p_id=4729&seq=1&format=3#specification

I still don't get 11 & 13 with this one, and it's supposed to get VHF. Any thoughts on why it isn't getting them?

Thanks for all your help so far.

The wiring in my house is a little messed up as far as connections go, we rent. So I use this on the window sil in my office into my computer for WMC http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=109&cp_id=10901&cs_id=1090101&p_id=4729&seq=1&format=3#specification

I still don't get 11 & 13 with this one, and it's supposed to get VHF. Any thoughts on why it isn't getting them?

Thanks for all your help so far.

That antenna likely has very little gain at VHF-HI (let alone LO) simply because of its' size. The Winegard HD-1080 would be a good choice for your area and indoor size antenna needs...
It could also be that the FMs cause interference in the VHF-HI band, they are at the second harmonic in VHF-HI and tv engineers have noted this problem on select sites. Overall, I am not a fan of amps on small indoor antennas. It usually introduces too much noise into play.

Of course on the downside, I'm not really excited to have a 5 ft long antenna on the roof of my house.

hehe.

gjvrieze -

Could I use that Winegard instead of my other uhv to get both signals sufficiently?
It only lists "VHF/UHF Antenna (channels 7 - 69)"

Thanks!

Hmm, TVfool says I'm in the green for all channels.

So if I got that additional antenna, I would need one of these it says?
http://www.showmecables.com/viewItem.asp?idProduct=1883
With shipping, that "no name" VHF/UHF Combiner is $8.
Why not order the real thing....for less:
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=UVSJ

Could I use that Winegard instead of my other uhv to get both signals sufficiently?
It only lists "VHF/UHF Antenna (channels 7 - 69)"


My brother uses one of these in Denton, TX (about 35 miles from the towers) with good results on UHF and upper VHF:

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=HD7694P

Unfortunately, one cannot escape physics with VHF and antenna size. Just be glad that we don't need 2-6 locally.

All UHF was certainly easier to buy antennas for, though not all stations had first rate facilities then.

On the bright side, the LA area seems to be better off than most major markets.

gjvrieze -

Could I use that Winegard instead of my other uhv to get both signals sufficiently?
It only lists "VHF/UHF Antenna (channels 7 - 69)"

Thanks!

Yes, I would use it for all the VHF-HI/UHF channels. If you signals are strong enough, you may be able to mount in a spot outdoors that is hidden from the road. Of course, you can always try it indoors first, but VHF does not seem to make it indoors as well as UHF.

I just moved from Newport Beach (2306 Margaret Dr.) to Costa Mesa, CA (2521 Orange Ave. 33.658934 -117.897012) and have lost all but 2 of my OTA stations.

I have a Radio shack Model # U-75R Catalog #15-2160 (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103088) on the roof pointed at 333 deg. and connected to the OTA jack of my E* VIP 622.

At my old house I received all stations at 80-90 except 7.1 would drop out every once and a while. Now I only get channels 7.1 and 11.1 at about 75-80. There are 2 story condos directly behind me (I am in a 1 story) and in the path to Mt. Wilson. Is there anything I can do to help my situation, or am I screwed?

I just moved from Newport Beach (2306 Margaret Dr.) to Costa Mesa, CA (2521 Orange Ave. 33.658934 -117.897012) and have lost all but 2 of my OTA stations.

I have a Radio shack Model # U-75R Catalog #15-2160 (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103088) on the roof pointed at 333 deg. and connected to the OTA jack of my E* VIP 622.

At my old house I received all stations at 80-90 except 7.1 would drop out every once and a while. Now I only get channels 7.1 and 11.1 at about 75-80. There are 2 story condos directly behind me (I am in a 1 story) and in the path to Mt. Wilson. Is there anything I can do to help my situation, or am I screwed?

It is really odd that you get only a couple VHF channels with a UHF antenna.

Did you mount and point it or was it already that way?

I could just be pissing in the wind, but if mounted as it looks in that picture, that could be the problem. The perspective in that picture is odd, and might cause some people to mount the antenna 90 degrees off from where it should be. The 32" height if mounted sideways would make two antenna elements just about the right length for trying to get some VHF channels.

It is really odd that you get only a couple VHF channels with a UHF antenna.

Did you mount and point it or was it already that way?

I could just be pissing in the wind, but if mounted as it looks in that picture, that could be the problem. The perspective in that picture is odd, and might cause some people to mount the antenna 90 degrees off from where it should be. The 32" height if mounted sideways would make two antenna elements just about the right length for trying to get some VHF channels.

The picture on the Radio shack site does look confusing, they must have taken it from an odd angle. I have it mounted so the "v" part of the antenna is straight up and down. The mounting position is exactly the same as my old house where I received everything before and after the analog-digital switch. I can only assume it is the condo behind me, but just wondering if there are any other options other than going higher than the condo(not possible since the mast would need to be 20'+ high due to pitched roof of condo).

hey guys.. now that they transitioned to digital.. I have trouble getting Channel Fox on channel 11-1. I get 0 signal.. Nothing.. But the rest of the channels 2-9 are fine.. close to 80% or above.. I tried moving the Sharpshooter which is mounted outside.. But nothing.. Anyone know what degree and stuff it has to be on? Im located in 91342. :(

I have noticed that the Channel 4 news while in HD, whenever they get a clip in SD they stretch it. It really looks ugly. As a result I switched to the Channel 2 news last night. The channel 2 news does not have the 7 day weather forecast for the valleys but all else is good. Channel 2 news uses sidebars when they have a SD clip.

Anyone else notice this?

Rick R

hey guys.. now that they transitioned to digital.. I have trouble getting Channel Fox on channel 11-1. I get 0 signal.. Nothing.. But the rest of the channels 2-9 are fine.. close to 80% or above..

A few questions:

1) What does your TVFool.com plot look like? 91342 extends up into the mountains, so it's impossible to run an accurate plot based on the ZIP code alone.

2) Did you perform a double re-scan for the new physical channel 11? I'm assuming so, since it appears you receive 7 and 9.

3) Have you tried installing an FM trap? Strong FM signals nearby can impair upper VHF reception.

4) Did you previously receive KTTV on 65, before the transition, or were you using the analog signal.

5) Can you add an outdoor class antenna?

KTTV has a CP to increase their power, but it is unknown when the work would actually start.

Make sure to complain to the station. They have never responded to my complaints, but I also complained to the FCC last month.

It's too bad that no one can see what is happening on Mt. Wilson from their back-yards. Well, at least w/o a telescope! :D

I have noticed that the Channel 4 news while in HD, whenever they get a clip in SD they stretch it. It really looks ugly. As a result I switched to the Channel 2 news last night. The channel 2 news does not have the 7 day weather forecast for the valleys but all else is good. Channel 2 news uses sidebars when they have a SD clip.

Anyone else notice this?

Rick R
Complain to them. I have not noticed it, but I have been close to comment/change because of the "let us know what you think and we will put your comments on the air during this broadcast" stuff that has been going on. I think they cut that out this week though. /Dan

I have noticed that the Channel 4 news while in HD, whenever they get a clip in SD they stretch it. It really looks ugly. As a result I switched to the Channel 2 news last night. The channel 2 news does not have the 7 day weather forecast for the valleys but all else is good. Channel 2 news uses sidebars when they have a SD clip.

Anyone else notice this?

Rick R

I have also notice the opposite blooper on ch. 9 news occasionally, with 16:9 scenes compressed horizontally and shown in a 4:3 window with sidebars. Also, news broadcasts on chs 2, 9 and others still usually use remote ENG cameras with a correctly scaled 16:9 aspect ratio, but only in SD and not very good SD at that.

Is anyone else noticing huge lowered signals KTLA and KTTV (and its KCOP) right now? All the rest seem OK. I tried both rabbit ears and bowtie antennae separately.

I wonder if it is because it is the summer weekend and TV stations lowered their transmitters' powers to save costs? Or is it just me?

Is anyone else noticing huge lowered signals KTLA and KTTV (and its KCOP) right now? All the rest seem OK. I wonder if it is because it is the summer weekend and TV stations lowered their transmitters' powers to save costs?

You may be experiencing some sort of weather-related ducting effect. KTLA, KTTV and KCOP are all normal strength here.

You may be experiencing some sort of weather-related ducting effect. KTLA, KTTV and KCOP are all normal strength here.What do you mean by "weather-related ducting effect"? Is that from the heat wave? I noticed the sky isn't clear (clouds accordng to weather sites and I can't see the mountains at all) and humid right now.