You may be experiencing some sort of weather-related ducting effect. KTLA, KTTV and KCOP are all normal strength here.Oooh, I figured it out. I had lose a loose coax cable connection. I had to push it in more (its screw suck). Weird that the other stations are OK and unaffected. :/

I just had some help this morning taking down my older CM 4-bay bow-tie UHF antenna and replaced it with a Weingard HD7015 combo antenna. I had to do this at my location (zip code 91040) as I lost KCBS, KTTV, KCAL and some other stations that switched to VHF frequencies.

I was surprised to find that I was able to get back all of the "lost" stations with the new antenna except, for me, KCBS is very weak at my location. Is this the fault of the antenna or the station? With the CM bow-tie UHF antenna it was the strongest of the UHF signals I received prior to the switch-over. BTW, I peaked the antenna using KCET-DT as the source signal as it is my understanding that their array is in the middle of the antenna farm on Mt. Wilson.

This change out of antenna was worth it as I now receive KABC-DT (plus all of the sub-channels) whereas, with the UHF antenna, I got nothing from my location....

I was surprised to find that I was able to get back all of the "lost" stations with the new antenna except, for me, KCBS is very weak at my location. Is this the fault of the antenna or the station?

Probably neither. The most likely culprit is your location. The tvfool.com scan for 91040 shows ... GOOD GOSH! How are you even getting ANYTHING? Anyway KCBS is down the list a ways, and it has a co-channel indicator (though I don't see from what), so it might be a challenge.

Might I ask why you didn't peak the antenna on KCBS? :D

The default location for 91040 is in the lower portion of the mountains. I suspect the actual location is around the West part of Sunland... which, well, still has weak signals.

A more specific TV Fool plot would be helpful.

As respects KCBS, the former facility on 60 was the highest on Mt. Wilson, which would benefit this area. I still don't know what CBS is planning for their old tower, other than keeping the radio station (93.1) on it.

For about a year I've used an Antennacraft HDX 1000 antenna on my roof to receive OTA HD perfectly. Just last week KTTV (FOX), KCAL and KCOP are at about 60% signal according to my Tivo which means I get intermittent pixelation and the audio stutters.

Is this something I can fix with a different antenna/equipment? Why all of a sudden if the transition was last month? I had no problems until very recently. My current antenna is supposed to pick up VHF and UHF signals from about 40 miles and TVfool.com says I'm only 27 miles from the station broadcasts.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

I just moved to a new home. I've attached my location info from tvfool.com

With my indoor silver sensor I can get most channels ok except for 7, 11, and 13. This house is setup for Directv which I'm not going to use, but I would like to use the existing mount and cabling. It's a standard dish mount, please see attachment.

Any recommendations on an antenna that would attach to that mount? I was thinking either the CM-4221HD or the CM-2016. What do you think? I think the CM-2016 is better. I hope it will fit well?

As you can see I temporarily threw my silver sensor up there and it actually picks up 7,11,13 okay, but I'd like a more stable signal and of course a true outdoor antenna. Lovely how they cut the gutter, huh?

Thanks for your input!

The CM2016 should be better than the 4221HD for VHF 7-13. I have a 4221HD and it's not great for that range.

Another option to consider is something like this, but it's probably too big to put on the J-mount:

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=HBU22

I’m 25 miles from Mt. Wilson and I can’t pick up VHF channels with rabbit ears indoors. I have a big window in the right direction, would I be able to hang the Winegard HD-1080 (http://www.winegarddirect.com/viewitem~d~winegard-hd1080-2bay-bowtie-uhf-and-high-band-vhf-antenna-(hd1080)~p~hd-1080.htm)vertically (it would fit) or does it absolutely need to be mounted horizontally for VHF reception?

I just moved to a new home. I've attached my location info from tvfool.com

With my indoor silver sensor I can get most channels ok except for 7, 11, and 13. This house is setup for Directv which I'm not going to use, but I would like to use the existing mount and cabling. It's a standard dish mount, please see attachment.

Any recommendations on an antenna that would attach to that mount? I was thinking either the CM-4221HD or the CM-2016. What do you think? I think the CM-2016 is better. I hope it will fit well?

As you can see I temporarily threw my silver sensor up there and it actually picks up 7,11,13 okay, but I'd like a more stable signal and of course a true outdoor antenna. Lovely how they cut the gutter, huh?

Thanks for your input!
I'd go with the Winegard HD7694P, assuming there's enough clearance from the roof. The CM4221 has basically no VHF capability, and the CM2016's lack of directionality on VHF leads to a strong possibility of problems due to multipath.

I’m 25 miles from Mt. Wilson and I can’t pick up VHF channels with rabbit ears indoors. I have a big window in the right direction, would I be able to hang the Winegard HD-1080 (http://www.winegarddirect.com/viewitem~d~winegard-hd1080-2bay-bowtie-uhf-and-high-band-vhf-antenna-(hd1080)~p~hd-1080.htm)vertically (it would fit) or does it absolutely need to be mounted horizontally for VHF reception?

Unless the transmitting antenna is either circular or elliptically polarized, an antenna positioned "vertically" will intercept almost no radio waves and will not work.

You do need a horizontally-oriented antenna.

Unless the transmitting antenna is either circular or elliptically polarized, an antenna positioned "vertically" will intercept almost no radio waves and will not work.

You do need a horizontally-oriented antenna.

Thanks for the reply.

So, in the case of channel 7-13 in LA, is the transmitting antenna either circular or elliptically polarized? I assume not but I thought I'd ask for the sake of understanding this better.

I would have thought that mounting something like that vertically would at least be more effective than rabbit ears even if it's full potential wasn't used. I guess that's not how it works...

I don't see any other antennas intended specifically for high VHF that could be used indoors. Can someone please point me to an antenna that can be used indoors but more effective than rabbit ears?

Thanks

I just had some help this morning taking down my older CM 4-bay bow-tie UHF antenna and replaced it with a Weingard HD7015 combo antenna. I had to do this at my location (zip code 91040) as I lost KCBS, KTTV, KCAL and some other stations that switched to VHF frequencies.

I was surprised to find that I was able to get back all of the "lost" stations with the new antenna except, for me, KCBS is very weak at my location. Is this the fault of the antenna or the station? With the CM bow-tie UHF antenna it was the strongest of the UHF signals I received prior to the switch-over. BTW, I peaked the antenna using KCET-DT as the source signal as it is my understanding that their array is in the middle of the antenna farm on Mt. Wilson.

This change out of antenna was worth it as I now receive KABC-DT (plus all of the sub-channels) whereas, with the UHF antenna, I got nothing from my location....

I live in fullerton, CA and according to TVfool distance from Mt. Wilson is 24 miles. I too lost CBS and all the channels that switched to VHF. What I don't get is I used to get CBS prior to the transition, and my understanding is they are still on UHF, (RF 43), I have a DB4 antenna mounted on the roof and I used to be able to lock on to 2.1, now I can't get a lock on 2.1, I sometimes get 43.1 but I can't lock on to it. To make matters worse, I use CBS to get TVGOS data for my Sony DHG 250 DVR, now since I can't tune in to CBS, I can't get any data, so my DVR is dead for now. I too am switching to the Winegard 7015 and should have it by this week. I am really puzzled about CBS, did they change their physical location/or reduce power? My brother-in-law who also lives in Fullerton also lost CBS, and he has the same Antenna (DB4) what gives?

I live in fullerton, CA and according to TVfool distance from Mt. Wilson is 24 miles. I too lost CBS and all the channels that switched to VHF. What I don't get is I used to get CBS prior to the transition, and my understanding is they are still on UHF, (RF 43), I have a DB4 antenna mounted on the roof and I used to be able to lock on to 2.1, now I can't get a lock on 2.1, I sometimes get 43.1 but I can't lock on to it. To make matters worse, I use CBS to get TVGOS data for my Sony DHG 250 DVR, now since I can't tune in to CBS, I can't get any data, so my DVR is dead for now. I too am switching to the Winegard 7015 and should have it by this week. I am really puzzled about CBS, did they change their physical location/or reduce power? My brother-in-law who also lives in Fullerton also lost CBS, and he has the same Antenna (DB4) what gives?


What is funny is that CBS is my strongest signal (57 miles away with the C4 antenna). UHF 43 seems to always be the highest for me. It was the highest for me also when KCAL 9 was UHF 43 DTV. This was also the case when I had my Squareshooter 1000 antenna. All my other UHF stations are around 72% but CBS is in the 80%.

So, in the case of channel 7-13 in LA, is the transmitting antenna either circular or elliptically polarized?

Here is a list of the polarizations used by the local stations (2 - 13 plus PBS)

CBS 2 [43] -> Horizontal
NBC 4 [36] -> Elliptical
KTLA 5 [31] -> Elliptical
KABC 7 [7] -> Circular
KCAL 9 [9] -> Circular
KTTV 11 [11] -> Horizontal or Elliptical (Requires upgrade)
KCOP 13 [13] -> Horizontal or Elliptical (Requires upgrade)
KCET 28 [28] -> Horizontal
KOCE 50 [48] -> Horizontal
KLCS 58 [41] -> Horizontal

Here is a list of the polarizations used by the local stations (2 - 13 plus PBS)

CBS 2 [43] -> Horizontal
NBC 4 [36] -> Elliptical
KTLA 5 [31] -> Elliptical
KABC 7 [7] -> Circular
KCAL 9 [9] -> Circular
KTTV 11 [11] -> Horizontal or Elliptical (Requires upgrade)
KCOP 13 [13] -> Horizontal or Elliptical (Requires upgrade)
KCET 28 [28] -> Horizontal
KOCE 50 [48] -> Horizontal
KLCS 58 [41] -> Horizontal


Great - I don't see that kind of information on antennaweb. So that 'requires upgrade' comment means that it's horizontal now and could be elliptical in the future? It seems kind of vague but if that's the case then it really wouldn't work to hang something like the Winegard HD-1080 vertically, would it?

Thanks for your help.

The information is from the "FCC TV Query Engineering Data".

The "requires upgrade" comment means that the station has filled for an Elliptical polarization when they upgrade their transmit antenna in the future.

The Winegard HD-1080 is a 2 bow-tie VHF High / UHF antenna, if you position it vertically it might work on 7 and 9 (Circular polarized) but it will not work on the Horizontal or Elliptical polarized stations unless the signal is very strong.

Elliptical polarization is mainly horizontal but also has some energy vertically, think of the shape of an ellipse. (So it is best to position antennas horizontally for elliptical polarized stations)

I’m 25 miles from Mt. Wilson and I can’t pick up VHF channels with rabbit ears indoors. I have a big window in the right direction, would I be able to hang the Winegard HD-1080 (http://www.winegarddirect.com/viewitem~d~winegard-hd1080-2bay-bowtie-uhf-and-high-band-vhf-antenna-(hd1080)~p~hd-1080.htm)vertically (it would fit) or does it absolutely need to be mounted horizontally for VHF reception?If the longest element was horizontal, your antenna would be a 1 element antenna at best and horizontal polarized to the horizon. If longest element vertical in the window, 1-element, vertical polarized. Can try an FM twinlead antenna taped to window with 300:75 ohm balun. I have cable so don't use much OTA, but I must be lucky. I built a 2 element bowtie out of wire (UHF size elements) and hanging in my garage 6 feet off the ground it receives all (that I care about, ex: 7, 9, 11, 13 + main UHF stuff). I am in the north end of the city of Orange. Did have problems with Ch 11 & 13 until their power increased. /Dan

Thanks again Quert, that information helps a lot. I’m sorry I didn’t notice earlier but now I realize that it is intended to be mounted vertically so it just might work. It’s pretty difficult to tell what will work for me, in my situation, but I think I’ll give this one a shot. I can’t find any better options. It’s interesting to know about how the channels are broadcast and how position affects the antenna, I’m sure it will come in handy.

I went with some advice from an engineer down the street that peaked his antenna on KCET-DT on the theory that its broadcast towers are in the middle of the antenna farm on Mt. Wilson - that plus it is the most important digital signal for me for various reasons (one being I'm a KCET member).

I didn't think about peaking the antenna on KCBS. I looked at the TV Fool Plot and couldn't quite figure it out. However, given our location, both my neighbor & myself feel fortunate to get the signals we are currently receiving here in West Sunland.

A professional installer came out several years back and told me to "forget OTA" at my location. I didn't listen to him and, instead, put a RS UHF Yagi on a 10-foot pole and planted it on the top of my roof and it worked. This Winegard antenna is my 3rd antenna and appears to work the best.

I went with some advice from an engineer down the street that peaked his antenna on KCET-DT on the theory that its broadcast towers are in the middle of the antenna farm on Mt. Wilson - that plus it is the most important digital signal for me for various reasons (one being I'm a KCET member)...


That seems like a good idea. I need to re-peak one of my two UHF antennas here on KCET also. This is a Winegard PR-4400 4-bay antenna which picks up KCET all right most of the time, but KCET often drops out during the evening hours, as does KSCI 18. The other andenna, a very old Radio Shack Yagi, does not seem to have much trouble with KCET. Interestingly, antenna pointing seems to be far more critical than the beam geometry data would imply.

The Winegard, on the other hand, does much better with KVCR 24 than the Radio Shack, and even picks up XETV 6.1 often during this time of year. XETV, like KTBN transmits on ch 23, but since I almost never can pick up KTBN, I get XETV instead!

Here in Highland Park despite being on the north side of the Arroyo and the Monterey Hills which obstruct line of sight to the east and south I have had some excellent distant signals.

During the last month, using a cheap Radio Shack bow-tie antenna at my south east facing window, I can get KVCR 24 (RF 26) most of the time.

San Diego's ABC affiliate KGTV 10 also comes in for long periods of time.

I frequently detect San Diego's KPBS 15 (RF 39), KNSD NBC 39 (RF 40), KSWB FOX 69 (RF 19) and Tijuana's XHUAA 57 (RF 22).

Usually they will not lock and show PSIP. However last night after 11 I watched XHUAA-HD for 5 minutes or more and later KSWB. No luck with PBS or NBC 39.

Using a Zenith 9901 converter box. Far and away the best of the coupon eligible boxes i have used.

Here in Highland Park despite being on the north side of the Arroyo and the Monterey Hills which obstruct line of sight to the east and south I have had some excellent distant signals.

During the last month, using a cheap Radio Shack bow-tie antenna at my south east facing window, I can get KVCR 24 (RF 26) most of the time.

San Diego's ABC affiliate KGTV 10 also comes in for long periods of time.

I frequently detect San Diego's KPBS 15 (RF 39), KNSD NBC 39 (RF 40), KSWB FOX 69 (RF 19) and Tijuana's XHUAA 57 (RF 22).

Usually they will not lock and show PSIP. However last night after 11 I watched XHUAA-HD for 5 minutes or more and later KSWB. No luck with PBS or NBC 39.

Using a Zenith 9901 converter box. Far and away the best of the coupon eligible boxes i have used.


Yes, I can often get all of these as well, except for XHUAA 57. In fact, KVCR comes in fairly reliably on the Winegard PR-4400 antenna. As for San Diego, the strongest are KGTV and KFMB. And as mentioned before, I sometimes pick up XETV-DT 6 on the Winegard antenna. Like KTLA, it is a CW affiliate, and it serves the San Diego area. I see that it is still on analog ch 6 as well, since the transmitter is in Mexico. I am located in the upper Granada Hills/Porter Ranch area.

Anyone recommend a good HDTV Rooftop antenna installer? I live near Rancho Palos Verdes.

-Ed

Yes, I can often get all of these as well, except for XHUAA 57. In fact, KVCR comes in fairly reliably on the Winegard PR-4400 antenna. As for San Diego, the strongest are KGTV and KFMB. And as mentioned before, I sometimes pick up XETV-DT 6 on the Winegard antenna. Like KTLA, it is a CW affiliate, and it serves the San Diego area. I see that it is still on analog ch 6 as well, since the transmitter is in Mexico. I am located in the upper Granada Hills/Porter Ranch area.

I am hoping I will get KFMB when it increases power. Currently our low-power local KFLA 8 snags the signal in most situations. I might be able to get XETV-DT once KTBN moves from 23 to 33. I am getting XEWT 12 very well on analog and XETV 6 analog less well due to the local low-power KSFV on the same spot. When I picked up XHUAA on DT I also got XHTIT 21 on analog. XETV, XEWT and XHUAA all broadcast from Mt San Antonio in TJ. XHTIT also. I believe.

When I lived in Hollywood on Ivar Hill I got most all the SD stations and most of the TJ and Tecate TX's during the summer ducting season on a GE indoor vhf/uhf ant. It is way old but still does a great job. The bow tie is a new experience to check out the possibilities for a new indoor or outdoor set-up. I am a renter so there are limitations.

Anyone recommend a good HDTV Rooftop antenna installer? I live near Rancho Palos Verdes.

-Ed

Check your Yellow pages. Look for Antennas, sat installers and home theater installers.

The HT theater businesses, if they don't do antennas themselves, will know who does do them.

I don't see anything on analog 33 now. Can anyone else or is KTBN's move to 33 imminent?

Edit: Something is already on 33, but it isn't KTBN... it's KVMD and a bunch of subs, mapped to 31x... What the??

KTBN is still on 23.

Attached is the TSR for 33.

Your mystery station is KSMV-LD. It received an STA to operate on DT-33 until KTBN needs it, at which time they'll swap frequencies.

- Trip

Well, I don't know why it has KVMD on it then, mapped to KVMD's virtual channel, 31.

26-28dB. If it's an LD, it's doing quite well.

It's owned by KJLA who, in turn, owns KVMD. Apparently, they're going to treat it like a DTS. When KTBN moves to 33, KSMV-LD will operate on channel 23 and repeat KVMD on-channel into Los Angeles.

What programming is on the subchannels?

- Trip

KVMD 31.1
KXLA 31.2 & 31.7
KJLA 31.3 & 31.6
VYV 31.8 - it's in Spanish and is showing some infomercial right now - I just got a station ID. It's the same as 57.7

Nothing new then.

Edit: Added screen cap

31.8 = Voz y Vision (VYV-DT)

Question ... is there anywhere on Earth that can receive this station, but not KXLA and KJLA? Cause everything they're sending out can be had on those other two. I don' onnerstan' dis country.

I notice that 57 has dropped one of their 9 subchannels - 57-9, the Jewelry Network. Darn, there goes my plans for the weekend.

BTW Trip ... KFLA is down to 3 subchannels now. 8-1 KFLA-LD, 8-2 White Springs TV, and 8-4 which comes up as AVIVA-TV but doesn't have a stream associated with it. They haven't been a very reliable catch here at the ranch recently (courtesy of San Diego), but this "lineup" has stood for at least a month.

Well, KVMD has been acting as a repeater for KJLA and KXLA in the Inland Empire. Now that it has a signal in Los Angeles, I'm sure they'll find it some programming of its own.

Is Jewelry now on 44-8 by any chance?

Does my listing for KFLA look better now?

- Trip

Is Jewelry now on 44-8 by any chance?

Nope. 44-8 has the "second" KXLA (different programming).

A quick rundown:
44-1 KXLA-DT
44-2 TELE FE (Telefe Christiana)
44-3 Sk-DTV (South Korean Home Shopping, skdshop.com)
44-4 LSTV (Little Saigon TV)
44-5 RKTV (Arirang)
44-6 IAVC (Int'l Audio-Visual Communications)
44-7 NTDTV (New Tang Dynasty TV)
44-8 KXLA-DT (different stuff from 44-1)

57-1 KJLA-DT
57-2 LATVNET (LATV)
57-3 KIB-TV (Korean Int'l Broadcasting)
57-4 SET (Saigon Entertainment Television)
57-5 SGTV (Saigon TV)
57-6 VBS-TV (Vietnamese Broadcast Station)
57-7 VYV-TV (Voz y Vision)
57-8 KVMD-DT

Your listing for KFLA is lovelier than KFLA itself is. :D

...Is Jewelry now on 44-8 by any chance?

...

- Trip

No, at least not now. All subchannels on ch 44 seem to be dedicated to Asian ethnic programming, and 44.8 is carrying a program that appears to be teaching elementary Mandarin lessons.

Hello, first post here and I have a basic newbie issue. I live in Studio City, in the hills, about 20 miles from Mt Wilson, can see it easily. I have a horizontally polarized rooftop antenna and have been getting all the digital local channels with no problem for a couple of years now with the OTA tuner within my Directv HR20-700 DVR. After the digital transition, I've lost KCET 28-1 although I can still get 28-2,-3,-4 just fine. I called KCET and they were at a loss, assuring me that nothing changed their end. Is this really true? Did they change anything, in fact? I've tried the usual rescanning tricks. Thanks OP

Hello, first post here and I have a basic newbie issue. I live in Studio City, in the hills, about 20 miles from Mt Wilson, can see it easily. I have a horizontally polarized rooftop antenna and have been getting all the digital local channels with no problem for a couple of years now with the OTA tuner within my Directv HR20-700 DVR. After the digital transition, I've lost KCET 28-1 although I can still get 28-2,-3,-4 just fine. I called KCET and they were at a loss, assuring me that nothing changed their end. Is this really true? Did they change anything, in fact? I've tried the usual rescanning tricks. Thanks OP

Very strange. Actually, I did hear of a similar situation a year or two ago with a small number of Pioneer sets and KNBC. As I recall, they could not get 4.1 but could get 4.2 and 4.4. It was, I believe, traced to a firmware "bug" in the sets themselves. As you know, KCET moved from ch 59 to 28 in the transition, and that, in conjunction with your tuner's idiosynchracies, may have something to do with the loss of 28.1. You might try a different kind of tuner; I think that may well solve your problem!

I don't see anything on analog 33 now. Can anyone else or is KTBN's move to 33 imminent?

Edit: Something is already on 33, but it isn't KTBN... it's KVMD and a bunch of subs, mapped to 31x... What the??

KTBN is still on 23.

I am still getting something on analog 33; it is in Spanish. I am not receiving anything on digital 33.

I am still getting something on analog 33; it is in Spanish. I am not receiving anything on digital 33.

I guess that KMSV flash cut more or less.

33 analog is gone here at this hour and 33 digital is coming in loud and clear on both my indoor antennas mapping to 31 as noted by Falcon 77.

By far the strongest of the 3 low power signals. Has parity or more with the poorest full power signal KLCS 58/41.

That's a total of 85 channels received here.

KVMD 31.1
KXLA 31.2 & 31.7
KJLA 31.3 & 31.6
VYV 31.8 - it's in Spanish and is showing some infomercial right now - I just got a station ID. It's the same as 57.7

Nothing new then.

Edit: Added screen cap

I am still seeing no digital signal at all coming in on ch 33. I am, of course, seeing all of the above subchannels, but only on chs 44 and 57. Both 44 and 57 are very strong here, reading 100% signal strength. This morning I am also not seeing any analog on ch 33, but that may be due to current conditions, It was there last night, in Spanish.

I guess that KMSV flash cut more or less.

33 analog is gone here at this hour and 33 digital is coming in loud and clear on both my indoor antennas mapping to 31 as noted by Falcon 77.

By far the strongest of the 3 low power signals. Has parity or more with the poorest full power signal KLCS 58/41.

That's a total of 85 channels received here.

At present, there is no trace of a digital or analog signal on ch 33 here. Ch. 58 does come in quite reliably here, howver. In any case, I suspect that I will detect an analog signal on 33 later in the day.

33 comes in ok here at the office (Tustin), at 20-21dB. It is certainly much stronger than KNLA-LD/50, which I can't receive here, though I can see traces of it on the signal meter.

This is with the 4221 1' off the ground, with some obstructions.

KNLA on 50/20 and KFLA on 8/8 are running with an ERP of less than half a kW.

KSMV 33/31 is on a six month 'special temporary authority' (STA) with 15 kW.

KNLA has an application for a power increase to 12.5 kW.

KFLA has an application to move to 22 with an increase to 15 kW.

They lost audience when KFMB fired up with digital in February and it will only get worse for them if KFMB gets their power increase.

The analog station on ch 33 apparently is XHAS which has a digital outlet on virtual ch 33.1, and serves San Diego as a Telemundo affiliate. Since it transmits on ch 34, the digital signal is blocked out locally here by KMEX. I was not receiving the analog signal on 33 this morning, because there was no inversion "skip", and none of the other San Diego stations were coming in either. The skip conditions improved this afternoon, and analog 33 started coming in again.

KFLA definitely needs to do something. I have never been able to receive it here, not even when KFMB was not coming in.

KFLA definitely needs to do something. I have never been able to receive it here, not even when KFMB was not coming in.

I'd prefer having KFMB. KFLA is a blot on the dial as far as I'm concerned (though certainly not the only one). The main channel shows garbage, while the lousy audio and video engineering on White Springs TV makes it unwatchable.

Can they possibly be making any money with that station - enough to justify purchasing a UHF transmitter? I'd think their viewership would be negligible no matter where they were on the dial.

I just bought the Philips SDV2740/27 amplified antenna and every channel comes in great except for Fox 11. I don't get it at all. I have scanned twice and both times it does not pick it up and when I go to 11 nothing is there. I will not have cable for at least a month since I need to move but in the meantime I wanted to watch TV but Fox is one of my favorites and I can't get it. Is it the antenna? Is it just not possible in my area? I get like 69 total channels but not Fox 11. What gives? BTW, my zip code is 92626

I just bought the Philips SDV2740/27 amplified antenna and every channel comes in great except for Fox 11. I don't get it at all. I have scanned twice and both times it does not pick it up and when I go to 11 nothing is there. I will not have cable for at least a month since I need to move but in the meantime I wanted to watch TV but Fox is one of my favorites and I can't get it. Is it the antenna? Is it just not possible in my area? I get like 69 total channels but not Fox 11. What gives? BTW, my zip code is 92626

I assume that you are getting ch 13. If so, this seems very strange, as both transmitter antennas are close together, and both are of comparable strength. I am getting ch 11 at about 50% strength and ch 13 at about 65%, and both are very stable. Right after the transition, the ranking was the opposite with ch 13 at about 50% strength and 11 around 65%. Later they made changes which strengthened ch 13 but weakened ch 11, at least here.

I think your problem is probably with the antenna and its orientation. You might try re-positioning it and try again. Do you know if you can enter channels manually without rescanning? If so, that will make it a lot easier to go through the trial and error process.

Yes, I get channel 13 and I can enter manually I think. I have a Panasonic TC-p42X1 TV and I see the manual option. So do I go to the scan channels again but instead of automatically searching, I put in each channel? That will take a long time so do I write down all the channels I have and manually input them? Do I have to move the antenna? It's on the wall and getting great reception but if I have to move it I will.

Anyone in Torrance (south of court house) having any luck getting Fox 11?

Yes, I get channel 13 and I can enter manually I think. I have a Panasonic TC-p42X1 TV and I see the manual option. So do I go to the scan channels again but instead of automatically searching, I put in each channel? That will take a long time so do I write down all the channels I have and manually input them? Do I have to move the antenna? It's on the wall and getting great reception but if I have to move it I will.

If you are only trying to add one station, it would be much easier to manually add that station than to rescan, if you are able to do so on your set. This is especially desirable here, since you may have to do it several times, while trying a different antenna position each time. Also keep in mind that when you rescan, you can lose other weak stations from your stored list, which may not be coming in at the moment.

Anyone in Torrance (south of court house) having any luck getting Fox 11?

No problem at all at Maple and Eldorado. But I do have a full sized VHF-UHF antenna (not one of these UHF sized antennas that they make VHF claims for) on top of a 2 story house.

No problem at all at Maple and Eldorado. But I do have a full sized VHF-UHF antenna (not one of these UHF sized antennas that they make VHF claims for) on top of a 2 story house.

I'm just around the block on Sonoma & Madrona, single story. Several years ago I tried a 4 bay bowtie UHF antenna mounted on the roof. Got terrible results. Bringing it inside the house and on top of my entertainment center worked great until switch. I'm hoping the CM3016 will do the job...

I'm just around the block on Sonoma & Madrona, single story. Several years ago I tried a 4 bay bowtie UHF antenna mounted on the roof. Got terrible results. Bringing it inside the house and on top of my entertainment center worked great until switch. I'm hoping the CM3016 will do the job...

Well if the 4 bay bowtie worked inside the house and not outside (and I'm assuming we're talking UHF only for that), then there's something suspect about your outside installation. It might just be something about your specific location but it's not typical behavior.

One thought that comes to mind is that that the courthouse building is close to being on a direct line between you and Mt. Wilson. If it's severely attenuating the signal then I'm not sure what will work for you. The CM3016 will probably be better for VHF but I'm not so sure about UHF.

Well I entered it manually and nothing came up. I've tried all different positions with the antenna and I can't seem to get a signal. Am I maybe doing something wrong?

I'd go with the Winegard HD7694P, assuming there's enough clearance from the roof. The CM4221 has basically no VHF capability, and the CM2016's lack of directionality on VHF leads to a strong possibility of problems due to multipath.

Thanks. I went with the HD7694P. It should be here on Wednesday. Very curious to see how it will perform at my location. Thanks for the suggestion!

Well if the 4 bay bowtie worked inside the house and not outside (and I'm assuming we're talking UHF only for that), then there's something suspect about your outside installation. It might just be something about your specific location but it's not typical behavior.

One thought that comes to mind is that that the courthouse building is close to being on a direct line between you and Mt. Wilson. If it's severely attenuating the signal then I'm not sure what will work for you. The CM3016 will probably be better for VHF but I'm not so sure about UHF.

I tried a Yagi and 4 bay bowtie, both clamped to a vent pipe on a 5 foot antenna mount pole. As I recall, this setup would catch some channels, just not all... Like the 4 bay indoors would.

I was told by the guy at Torrance Electronics that the current antenna location is probably in "a hot spot", and that is reason it worked indoors and not out.

Seems OTA reception is part science and part magic...

Well I entered it manually and nothing came up. I've tried all different positions with the antenna and I can't seem to get a signal. Am I maybe doing something wrong?

Do you know for sure that you can add digital stations manually on your set? The user's manual may or may not say whether you can. Unfortunately if the set does not allow it, it will respond in exactly the same way as it would on a set that does allow it but where the signal is too weak.

FYI: on sets where manual inputting is possible, you have to add the real channel number, and not the virtual number; so, for example, somene adding ch 2 (KCBS) would input '43' and not '2'. This, of course, does not apply here because they are both the same.

Anyway, at this point you might try tuning to ch 13 which is nearby on Mt. Wilson, and select "Signal Strength" on the set, then watching the display, adjust for maximum signal strength, then enter ch 11 manually or else rescan. If that fails, you just may have to go to a better antenna, ideally a roof antenna.

The two primary causes of not being able to receive a single channel are 1) multipaths from numerous directions that the digital TV cannot compensate for and 2) a fluctuating TV signal caused when there are moving trees in the line-of-sight, the ghost canceling circuitry cannot handle it. I'm afraid all you can do is try to reorient your antenna for each channel which is hugely inconvenient or invest in an outdoor antenna that is mounted on a rotator. You will have the find the optimum direction which again is inconvenient.

Decades back, when OTA was the norm, and not every market had a consolidated antenna farm, rotators came with little stick-on (RF) channel numbers to put on it for the best headings found for the various stations. With NTSC that meant aiming for the least snow/ghosting - which often could be a compromise for vertical sync to be maintained. With DTV sets/tuners one has to rely on whatever "quality meter" it has to obtain the "best" heading due to the all-or-none "cliff effect". In worst-case scenarios decode will only occur over a narrow range of azimuths per station (limiting any channel surfing). More than a few will be driven to CATV/sat services (if available) by these added frustrations.

Thanks for the info guys. I still can't get Fox 11 so I decided to hook up the antenna to the downstairs tv since it is right by a window. The Tv is a Sony XBR 700 40 inch CRT HDTV but I can't get any channels to come in. The set can output 480p and 1080i but not 720p. Do I need a converter box for this TV? I thought since it was an HDTV, all I would need is the antenna but no channels are coming on and it has a program channel option so unless I am doing something wrong, the antenna is not working on the Sony. HELP!

Thanks for the info guys. I still can't get Fox 11 so I decided to hook up the antenna to the downstairs tv since it is right by a window. The Tv is a Sony XBR 700 40 inch CRT HDTV but I can't get any channels to come in. The set can output 480p and 1080i but not 720p. Do I need a converter box for this TV? I thought since it was an HDTV, all I would need is the antenna but no channels are coming on and it has a program channel option so unless I am doing something wrong, the antenna is not working on the Sony. HELP!

The XBR 700 didn't come with a built-in digital tuner. You'll need a converter box at the very least, and a genuine outboard HD tuner if you want to watch in high definition.

I am in Venice, and like many in this thread (even on this page I see), I suddenly cannot pick up Fox 11 either as of a few weeks ago (around the time of the digital switch). I cant get channel 13 either.

Whats strange is I used to pick them up just fine, and then one day they just turned off. Every other channel is still crystal clear. Ive tried scanning, repositioning the antenna every which way and nothing, I am really tearing my hair out.

Searching this thread and others it looks like many had the same problem, at the same time, but it seemed all of the solutions discussed on here were about a vista/media center issue and I am using a Samsung digital reciever model DTB-H260F

Anyways, any help is greatly appreciated, and if I find a solution I will be sure to post it as well.

I am in Venice, and like many in this thread (even on this page I see), I suddenly cannot pick up Fox 11 either as of a few weeks ago (around the time of the digital switch). I cant get channel 13 either.

Searching this thread and others it looks like many had the same problem, at the same time, but it seemed all of the solutions discussed on here were about a vista/media center issue . . .

Ummm ... you certainly didn't get that from this thread.

LA's digital channels 7, 9, 11 and 13 moved to VHF on transition day.

If your antenna is UHF only (which a lot of the so-called "digital" antennas are), then it isn't optimized to pick up VHF - in which case it's time to buy a new antenna.

Are you using an indoor antenna? That might not cut it for VHF stations.

Well that really sucks. I guess that's what happens to early adopters of HDTV like me. I will just have to live without FOX for now. Maybe I will just bring my Plasma downstairs and see if I can get FOX. I am not gonna buy a new antenna cuz it's most likely just my area.

Well that really sucks. I guess that's what happens to early adopters of HDTV like me. I will just have to live without FOX for now. Maybe I will just bring my Plasma downstairs and see if I can get FOX. I am not gonna buy a new antenna cuz it's most likely just my area.

That's up to you, but in Venice you should have no trouble getting 11 and 13 unless you have something blocking you.

Ummm ... you certainly didn't get that from this thread.

I was referring to this thread, particularly posts such as these:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13462391#post13462391

Which, I did not realize at the time were from an earlier year.



If your antenna is UHF only (which a lot of the so-called "digital" antennas are), then it isn't optimized to pick up VHF - in which case it's time to buy a new antenna.

Thanks for the information! This is something I had not considered, I will investigate it.

I just bought the Philips SDV2740/27 amplified antenna and every channel comes in great except for Fox 11. I don't get it at all. I have scanned twice and both times it does not pick it up and when I go to 11 nothing is there. I will not have cable for at least a month since I need to move but in the meantime I wanted to watch TV but Fox is one of my favorites and I can't get it. Is it the antenna? Is it just not possible in my area? I get like 69 total channels but not Fox 11. What gives? BTW, my zip code is 92626

I am in Wisconsin and lost channel 11 after the transition.
It was 11(51), now 11 VHF at 17kwatts. I am 65 mi away and have another channel 11 65mi away in a different direction....both FOX.
I get 7 and 9 no problem, nothing from 11.
Engineer at Green Bay FOX says "Madison FOX is canceling their signal"
Madison FOX engineer says "no we are not" Madison FOX will move to 49 someday in the future, but not this year.
No FOX for me, either.

If you are getting two (or more) DTV sigs on the same channel and one does not dominate in strength by at least 15 dB the system will abort all - and what's more misleading is that the "quality meter" may indicate that very little is there. When tropo ducting conditions are up here some of our lower-powered locals will not decode over as wide an antenna azimuth range as usual and that meter becomes very "dynamic".

KTTV-11 has been troublesome for me in the LBC (90804) as of late. It's been hovering around 40% for weeks and while sister station KCOP-13 has been holding steady at 70%. I wish it was the other way around but dems the brakes I guess. Hopefully, the power increase KTTV was granted actually gets performed.

As far as the other two VHFs. KABC-7 is fine even though the signal is 50%. It's steady though. KCAL-9 is rock solid with the meter pegged all the way.

I am in Wisconsin and lost channel 11 after the transition.
It was 11(51), now 11 VHF at 17kwatts. I am 65 mi away and have another channel 11 65mi away in a different direction....both FOX.
I get 7 and 9 no problem, nothing from 11.
Engineer at Green Bay FOX says "Madison FOX is canceling their signal"
Madison FOX engineer says "no we are not" Madison FOX will move to 49 someday in the future, but not this year.
No FOX for me, either.

Get a 10-element high-VHF Yagi and point it at whichever Fox affiliate is able to get your best signal. An antenna like that should be able to knock the other one down by 10-25 dB, depending on the relative azimuths and the selected antenna.

Get a 10-element high-VHF Yagi and point it at whichever Fox affiliate is able to get your best signal. An antenna like that should be able to knock the other one down by 10-25 dB, depending on the relative azimuths and the selected antenna.

For channel 11
In actual tests, the YA-713 has a net gain of 7 dBd.
My radio Shack has net gain of 5.5 dBd.
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html

Jetninja,

I think you are referring to the Silver Sensor, manufactured by Antiference in England, but apparently being marketed now by Zenith. I can attest to its virtues as a UHF only DTV antenna. It is small, about 1 ft. long and is highly directional. I've used it to recieve the San Diego stations without a pre-amp, a distance of over 70 miles. I can get the LA CBS station at my home in MV, about 55 miles. As I wrote earlier in the thread, I use 2 now, one indoors and one outdoors with a pre-amp to get all the LA stations. It's nice in that its small enough that my HOA did not have a problem with me mounting it outdoors.

The original Silver Sensor is UHF only.
An amplified Silver Sensor is also available with RABBIT EARS for VHF reception,
and a plastic case to protect the elements from inquisitive fingers:
http://www.amazon.com/Philips-PHDTV3-Indoor-Amplified-Antenna/dp/B000B58VNM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&m=A2NYACAJP9I1IY&s=generic&qid=1249411017&sr=1-1
http://www.buy.com/prod/philips-indoor-high-performance-dtv-antenna-philips-indoor-high/q/loc/111/207535331.html

Get a 10-element high-VHF Yagi and point it at whichever Fox affiliate is able to get your best signal. An antenna like that should be able to knock the other one down by 10-25 dB, depending on the relative azimuths and the selected antenna.

For channel 11
In actual tests, the YA-713 has a net gain of 7 dBd.
My radio Shack has net gain of 5.5 dBd.
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html
Those are computer simulation runs, not actual on-air tests.
Per the chart, YA-1713 has about 11 dBd (13 dBi) Gain on Ch11.

However, what is important in rejecting stations on the BACKSIDE of the
antenna is the Front/Back (F/B) and Front/Rear (F/R) Ratios.

Winegard YA-1713 specs claim 10 dBd Gain and F/B=19 dB on Ch11:
http://www.winegarddirect.com/pdf/spec_YA1713.pdf

However, the actual F/B will depend on the gain toward the direction
YOU want to suppress, which may vary from whatever W-G assumes....

BTW: This is all very off-topic....there is nothing else on Ch11 in SOCAL
area, although Ch8 and Ch10 in LaJolla (S.D.) could cause adjacent
channel interference to North S.D. and Orange County viewers.

I am in Wisconsin and lost channel 11 after the transition.
It was 11(51), now 11 VHF at 17kwatts. I am 65 mi away and have another channel 11 65mi away in a different direction....both FOX.
I get 7 and 9 no problem, nothing from 11.
Engineer at Green Bay FOX says "Madison FOX is canceling their signal"
Madison FOX engineer says "no we are not" Madison FOX will move to 49 someday in the future, but not this year.
No FOX for me, either.

I don't care what kind of antenna this guy uses, he ain't going to have a snowball's chance in hell of picking up Fox 11 in Los Angeles when he's somewhere in Wisconsin between Madison and Green Bay. :)

I have no idea how to get Fox 11. I have the Philips SDV2740/27 Amplified Enhanced Digital Performance Antenna in case you were wondering. Is there a possibility that I just can't get that channel? My last hope is to move my tv downstairs and see if I can get it down there.

I have no idea how to get Fox 11. I have the Philips SDV2740/27 Amplified Enhanced Digital Performance Antenna in case you were wondering. Is there a possibility that I just can't get that channel? My last hope is to move my tv downstairs and see if I can get it down there.

Are you unable to put up an outdoor antenna in your location? It may be necessary to do so in order to get ch 11. You might even get away with one in the attic, if necessary. Looking at a picture of your Philips antenna, I think it looks awfully "lightweight" for pulling in DTV signals effectively. I would especially recommend the Winegard YA-1713 which I am using here. It is big, over eight feet (100") long, but it really works on chs 7-13!

I actually have a $40 coupon for a converter box so I can just get that and hook it up to the TV downstairs. This way, I should be able to get all the channels. I just need to make sure I get one that allows me to watch HDTV too since the Sony I'm hooking it up on is an HDTV.

I actually have a $40 coupon for a converter box so I can just get that and hook it up to the TV downstairs. This way, I should be able to get all the channels. I just need to make sure I get one that allows me to watch HDTV too since the Sony I'm hooking it up on is an HDTV.

Hold on there, Freezy.

The coupon boxes don't do HDTV. If you want true High Def, you have to get an actual HD tuner like this one. You can't use the coupons for them:
http://www.costcentral.com/proddetail/COBY_Electronics_COBY_DTV_140/DTV140/10567098/

(That's not an endorsement of that site, BTW, it's just to show you an example.)

And converter boxes and HD tuners need antennas too.

http://www.frys.com/product/5488779?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

I'm just going off of the info from that site. It says they can do HDTV.

It's wrong.

It will show the HDTV channels, but not in High Definition.

Well if you look it shows it supports 1080i/720p etc. So I can sue them?

It says it supports 1080i/720p as input formats. It'll receive those off the air, as all coupon boxes can. It only supports 480i as an output format to your TV. That's a requirement of the coupon program.

- Trip

Okay so it's doing all the things any other box does it's just trying to sound fancy. Gotcha.

Well if you look it shows it supports 1080i/720p etc. So I can sue them?

It should be a clue that it talks ONLY about analog tv for it's output.

Winegard HD7694P installed. Working great even with the palm tree in the way. Used existing DirecTV mount, barely cleared the top of the roof.

I'm glad it's working and that it fit. I thought it would be too big for the J-mount, but apparently not. Thanks for the update.

I actually have a $40 coupon for a converter box so I can just get that and hook it up to the TV downstairs. This way, I should be able to get all the channels. I just need to make sure I get one that allows me to watch HDTV too since the Sony I'm hooking it up on is an HDTV.
External Set Top Boxes that receive OTA DTV and OUTPUT HD are at the top of this list:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=179095
Starting at $85 and up....(PS, you usually get what you pay for...)
Be sure to read the individual threads...and check specs....some don't do HDMI.

PS: NONE of these qualify for the $40 coupon....CECB's were intentionally limited
to low-rez output.....ONLY.....

...and hook it up to the TV downstairs. This way, I should be able to get all the channels. I just need to make sure I get one that allows me to watch HDTV too since the Sony I'm hooking it up on is an HDTV.

If you can't get KTTV upstairs, you probably won't get it downstairs either. Generally speaking, reception gets worse at lower elevations. Still, it might be worth a try, the downstairs location might just happen to be in a "hot spot", but I rather doubt it.

http://www.frys.com/product/5488779?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

I'm just going off of the info from that site. It says they can do HDTV.

Actually that box can output s-video. S-video is allowed on coupon eligible boxes but few do it. It is still not HDTV but it is the best standard definition available. I suspect that is why they advertise it is equivalent to DVD quality picture.

Rick R

Actually that box can output s-video. S-video is allowed on coupon eligible boxes but few do it. It is still not HDTV but it is the best standard definition available. I suspect that is why they advertise it is equivalent to DVD quality picture.

Rick R

It's literally a DVD quality picture, assuming the station is transmitting same. DVDs are standard definition too.

I'm glad it's working and that it fit. I thought it would be too big for the J-mount, but apparently not. Thanks for the update.

Working well too. I actually have three TV's running off of it without a preamp, only the antenna. One output from the antenna split once and then one of those lines split again. One line going to an HD Tivo Series 3 and the other two going to DTV converter boxes and smaller TV's. All are getting the channels that I couldn't get before (7, 9, 11, 13) on a single TV.

Well I finally broke down and bought a converter box and just a standard rabbit hear Philips antenna. I live in Riverside County, but near Orange County. I was expecting nil reception, and boy was I surprised. I can receive basically all the L.A. channels and subchannels perfectly, the major ones. The only one I'm not getting a signal on and this surprises me is KVCR-DT, the Inland Empire PBS station. The only channel giving me slight pixelation is KCBS-DT, KTTV-DT, and the various KSCI channels. How is your reception to anyone else in the Inland Empire area. What about further east like Moreno Valley, Temecula or Hemet areas? Also with the RCA box cannot get RF real channel info, only the virtual channel info is displayed. How can you find out the actual channel? Of course I can go to the FCC, but I mean from my own box? Who knew running a simple rabbit ear antenna would get me PERFECT reception. For someone living in a cable-dominated area, this is so freeing.

Thanks in advance,
Larry

Any one know what ch Aviva tv 8-4 and yvy tv 8-5 are ? They show up on my Lcd no picture or sound . I have done a search on the net can't find any info.

Info from http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=print_market&mktid=2

this will give all that you need for between displayed and rf channel of LA stations.

Well I finally broke down and bought a converter box and just a standard rabbit hear Philips antenna. I live in Riverside County, but near Orange County. I was expecting nil reception, and boy was I surprised. I can receive basically all the L.A. channels and subchannels perfectly, the major ones. The only one I'm not getting a signal on and this surprises me is KVCR-DT, the Inland Empire PBS station. Larry

It's not surprising that you can't get KVCR. From where you are, their transmitter will be way off the axis between you and Mt. Wilson (where most of the LA stations have their transmitters). Here's a KVCR coverage map. (http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=80&q=call%3dkvcr%26type%3dD) You'll probably have to reaim your antenna when needed or research getting a better one.

For someone living in a cable-dominated area, this is so freeing.


The general message was that if you had cable or satellite, you didn't need to do anything.

I wish more would try free OTA instead of assuming it won't work for them, but with the DTV transition out of the news, how many will try now?

I demoed DTV to a local friend and she wants to drop cable as a result. More would probably consider OTA, if they tried it, but most think the digital transition was only for those "antenna people." How unfortunate to have this mindset.

From what I've read, the average cable bill is about 4x what it was 10 years ago. Do people watch 4x as much TV?

I've had trouble with KVCR in various tests in the Riverside area. I have found it easier to receive the more distant Mt. Wilson stations.

Any one know what ch Aviva tv 8-4 and yvy tv 8-5 are ? They show up on my Lcd no picture or sound . I have done a search on the net can't find any info.

That's just KFLA being KFLA. There's nothing there anymore - just PSIDs with no stream - and I'm sure whatever contracts those channels had with KFLA have long since been invalidated. AVIVA can be found on 20-1 (and analog 25 if you can get it), and I think "yvy tv" might have been Voz y Vision, which is on both 57-7 and 31-8.

Going to be buying two converter boxes with the coupons. Open to ideas. Know it won't pick up HD as HD.

Going to be buying two converter boxes with the coupons. Open to ideas. Know it won't pick up HD as HD.

A friend of mine picked up an Apex unit from Best Buy, and I set it up for her. I thought it was a nice little unit; it was very sensitive and operated exactly like an HD set top box, just no HD output. It included a nice remote control too; not bad at all for only $40 with the coupon.

KSCI's request for 700kW was granted.

The current 111kW facility has worked well for me, but I'm shadowed from co-channel interference from KUSI/18 in San Diego. Is anyone having problems due to KUSI?

KSCI's request for 700kW was granted.

The current 111kW facility has worked well for me, but I'm shadowed from co-channel interference from KUSI/18 in San Diego. Is anyone having problems due to KUSI?

I do have problems occasionally, especially in the evening, with both KSCI and KCET. Both are too weak to provide reliable signals during unfavorable propagation conditions. During normal conditions, both are relatively strong. KCET is much improved since the move, but KSCI is not. Before the move, KSCI always put in an extremely strong signal here on ch 61. It is the only station whose signal became worse for me after the move. I do wonder though if some of those seeming "fade outs" by KSCI might have actually been interference from KUSI, with the receiver unable to lock onto either one.

Going to be buying two converter boxes with the coupons. Open to ideas. Know it won't pick up HD as HD.

Channel Master and Zenith/Insignia.

Going to be buying two converter boxes with the coupons. Open to ideas. Know it won't pick up HD as HD.

Channel Master and Zenith/Insignia.

I'll second this. The Channel Master box has the better Program Guide since it goes out farther than the current show and the next show unlike the Zenith/Insignia. The Channel Master has a better looking and feeling remote. Zenith/Insingnia's remote is tiny which seems to be on par with Zenith products. Zenith/Insigna gets the edge for having a slightly better (more sensitive?) tuner for pulling in hard to lock signals. I can get a lock on San Diego KSWB (Fox5) RF-19 pretty regularly.

I'll second this. The Channel Master box has the better Program Guide since it goes out farther than the current show and the next show unlike the Zenith/Insignia. The Channel Master has a better looking and feeling remote. Zenith/Insingnia's remote is tiny which seems to be on par with Zenith products. Zenith/Insigna gets the edge for having a slightly better (more sensitive?) tuner for pulling in hard to lock signals. I can get a lock on San Diego KSWB (Fox5) RF-19 pretty regularly.

Interesting that you should say the Zenith has a better tuner then the Channel Master. My best friend and I have found the CM to have the slight edge in the tuner over the Zenith. We were able to test it on signals which one would be badly breaking up and the other would have fewer breakups (or none) And concluded that the CM was the best tuner all around. That said, I love the Zenith box, the menu is great, it is easy to support for those who have grandma's who call and need help and what not! (and I actually liked the remote, not soooo many buttons like every other remote out there)

If anyone is in need of a CECB, these reviews clearly show the Zenith and Channel Master to be the two best boxes, IF you can get them! (the Digital Stream from Radio Shack is actually not too bad either, if someone is in a jam and needs one NOW!)

Interesting that you should say the Zenith has a better tuner then the Channel Master. My best friend and I have found the CM to have the slight edge in the tuner over the Zenith. We were able to test it on signals which one would be badly breaking up and the other would have fewer breakups (or none) And concluded that the CM was the best tuner all around.

I'm finding that different tuners are better at different things. The Zenith is a little better at weak signals (KNLA), whereas the Sansonic (not recommended) does slightly better with co-channel rejection (KFLA vs. San Diego). My Channel Master box is not conveniently situated to do direct comparisons, so I don't know where it fits into the scheme of things.

Anyone have any experience with Zip Installation with rooftop antenna installs?

I'm thinking of using them to install an OTA antenna on my condo's roof.

http://www.zipinstallation.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=SKIPWCCO&CartID=1

-Ed

Doug Lung has posted a coverage map of KNBC, which includes predicted losses due to buildings, in addition to terrain. This can be panned and zoomed out:

http://dtvcoverage.xmtr.com/knbc-dt.html

The full article can be found here:

http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/85186

Doug Lung has posted a coverage map of KNBC, which includes predicted losses due to buildings, in addition to terrain. This can be panned and zoomed out:

http://dtvcoverage.xmtr.com/knbc-dt.html

The full article can be found here:

http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/85186


What's funny is that my address is "in the red" for KNBC according to this map yet KNBC is one of my best stations using the Clearstream 4.

I have two analog TVs and only one converter box. So it was 15 minutes before midnight ET on the 31 of July (8:45 PM PT). I had been told this was the last day to get converter box coupons. So I ordered two. When they come I will get an additional converter box.

I did notice that Wal Mart is carrying the converter boxes again. However I will try to find the Zenith/Insignia as I live in a difficult OTA area.

Rick R

west LA, in the shadow of the 31 story Wachovia building at Wilshire and SV.

Doug Lung has posted a coverage map of KNBC, which includes predicted losses due to buildings, in addition to terrain. This can be panned and zoomed out:

http://dtvcoverage.xmtr.com/knbc-dt.html

The full article can be found here:

http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/85186

This is a very valuable tool because of its level of detail and coverage. I have already found it useful in determining the DTV reception prospects for certain acquaintances in their locations. Presumably it can be assumed to be fairly representative of Mt. Wilson stations as a whole. Still, it would be interesting if Doug could make a few more of these for other stations, especially for some of those troublesome east Mt. Wilson stations like KCET and KTBN.

Those plots may be limited to NBC-owned stations. WNBC (NY) and WRC (DC) are available by substituting calls in the URL.

ADDENDUM: KWHY and KVEA plus KNTV (San Jose) and KNSD are available.

Doug works for NBC, so I doubt he's making any maps for non-NBC stations any time soon.

- Trip

Doug works for NBC, so I doubt he's making any maps for non-NBC stations any time soon.

- Trip

I suspected as much. BTW, the TVFool maps compare very favorably with these plots (shadows and hot spots are in the same places).

Just checkin' in... new OTA'er here in Simi Valley. Just moved out from Las Vegas and brought my antenna with me.

I just placed it in the upper area of the garage of my rental home (I'm not allowed on the roof per my contract) and am happy with the results of all the channels I can get...

...except for 63, which I think is broadcast out of Oxnard. What do you guys SE of Oxnard do to get that channel when your directional antenna is pointing the other way? AFAIK I'm right between the two broadcast locations.

You should be able to pick it up on RF 24 from Mt Wilson, maps to 63.

hmm I'm thinking that might be what I'm already getting weakly

maybe my antenna isnt quite right for getting that

perhaps a more UHF type antenna is in my near future

KBEH/24 is still very weak. They have a construction permit to raise the power eventually, but last I heard other permitting issues needed to be resolved first.

I find it easier to get the new LD station on 33 at only 15kW. So, unless you have to have KBEH, I wouldn't worry about it for now.

What antenna do you have? Las Vegas is more VHF centric than LA, at least as respects the major networks.

Yes, Vegas is very much more VHF than UHF, no doubt about that.

My antenna is very simliar to this one:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3739594

...mine is more like an arrow than a T towards the back (hope that makes sense), but it works the same

actually i get just about everything i would want to, its just that 63 comes in very weakly if at all. im not sure how important it is but if i could get it somehow of course that would be ideal

Is there any reason why I am not able to get 5-1, 7-1, 9-1, 11-1, and 13-1; but I'm able to get 2-1, 4-1, 18-1 and up until 56-1?

I live in Gardena and I have a rooftop antenna (I think a winguard). This antenna was new in 2001 and setup by a specialist. I was able to get all OTA channels with no problem for years. About a year ago I got a new DirecTV plan with local channels and no longer used the antenna. Now I have an HDTV using only the the antenna but I can't get the most important channels.

Why did this suddenly happen? And what are some ways I can troubleshoot this?

Just checkin' in... new OTA'er here in Simi Valley. Just moved out from Las Vegas and brought my antenna with me.

I just placed it in the upper area of the garage of my rental home (I'm not allowed on the roof per my contract) and am happy with the results of all the channels I can get...

...except for 63, which I think is broadcast out of Oxnard. What do you guys SE of Oxnard do to get that channel when your directional antenna is pointing the other way? AFAIK I'm right between the two broadcast locations.

If you are in a single family residence, then you are allowed to put the antenna up on the roof by federal law, regardless of any contract.

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

Is there any reason why I am not able to get 5-1, 7-1, 9-1, 11-1, and 13-1; but I'm able to get 2-1, 4-1, 18-1 and up until 56-1?

I live in Gardena and I have a rooftop antenna (I think a winguard). This antenna was new in 2001 and setup by a specialist. I was able to get all OTA channels with no problem for years. About a year ago I got a new DirecTV plan with local channels and no longer used the antenna. Now I have an HDTV using only the the antenna but I can't get the most important channels.

Why did this suddenly happen? And what are some ways I can troubleshoot this?

With the exception of 5-1, the channels that you are not getting are all on VHF. Is your antenna a UHF-only model, or do you have something in your feed line, like a preamplifier that does not pass VHF?

I'm not sure but I do know I use to get those channels in crystal clear hidef when I last used this antenna. Is there usually some kind of setting on the antenna itself that could be the culprit? I took a glance up at the antenna just now and I can see a black wire hanging from the top of it.

This is a picture of the wire dangling from my antenna. Is it suppose to be connected to something? Might it have been knocked loose?

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/3081/img0380acl.jpg

If you are in a single family residence, then you are allowed to put the antenna up on the roof by federal law, regardless of any contract.

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html
While that may be true when you OWN your own home, RENTERS are limited
to patios, balconies and similar areas unless they work a deal with the OWNER,
which might involve hiring a licensed, INSURED and bonded installation
contractor and giving up ownership rights to the installed equipment.

If you are in a single family residence, then you are allowed to put the antenna up on the roof by federal law, regardless of any contract.

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

While that may be true when you OWN your own home, RENTERS are limited
to patios, balconies and similar areas unless they work a deal with the OWNER,
which might involve hiring a licensed, INSURED and bonded installation
contractor and giving up ownership rights to the installed equipment.

Thanks Edwood, I remember reading something like that before. So far I think it might be fine. It was actually much easier to place the antenna up in the rafters than it would be to mount it on the roof and run the wire. I do recall hearing what holl_ands is saying, where even licensed techs would get approval from the homeowner or landlord. I think I could just call them and ask if it comes down to it.

I'm not sure but I do know I use to get those channels in crystal clear hidef when I last used this antenna.

How long ago was that? Maybe the channel frequencies changed since you last used that antenna (I'm really not sure I'm new to the area).

I stopped using my antenna when I got my DVR from DirecTV, which does not have a dedicated OTA tuner. That would have been about two years ago. The strange thing is I am able to pick up all the channels but not their digital counterpart (anything ending in -1).

Here is another picture of my antenna from the opposite view:

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/6919/img0381gyx.jpg

What strikes me as odd is that looks more like a VHF antenna to me, that makes sense for grabbing the old analog channels. I would be quick to blame your antenna if the channels you are not getting were all or mostly UHF...

...but HarrisonS states that the channels you are missing are indeed VHF. Maybe double check the accuracy of his statement at tvfool or antennaweb.

I stopped using my antenna when I got my DVR from DirecTV, which does not have a dedicated OTA tuner. That would have been about two years ago. The strange thing is I am able to pick up all the channels but not their digital counterpart (anything ending in -1).

Here is another picture of my antenna from the opposite view:

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/6919/img0381gyx.jpg

It looks like the balun wires are not connected to the antenna element terminals. There should two terminals with wing nuts that it connects to.

Is there any change to how stations broadcast their signal after the digital cut-off?

Not sure about LA in particular but I know some of the VHF/UHF frequencies changed around so folks were advised to rescan

So is there anything else I need to do while I am up on my roof besides connecting the terminal? I don't have to realign it, do I?

Must be in a strong field for UHF to still be coming in well with just the balun pigtails left for an antenna. The wires to the spade lugs will fail if there's a lot of flexure from wind, birds, etc. It's best to vinyl tape (NOT duct tape!) the balun/coax to the boom to relieve any weight strain (those antenna boom-mounted plastic strain-relief items usually fail in a few years from ultraviolet light, etc effects). Rarely does the wing-nut assembly fail, and if it does it's usually a case of them becoming frozen, which a shot of WD-40 might help. (More serious fixes may involve using a hacksaw/bolt cutter and new hardware - sometimes more trouble than simply getting a new antenna would be.)

Is that loose cable responsible for not being able to receive certain channels? My dad is looking at it and he says it looks like a transformer, which deals with voltages. He says if I'm able to get some channels, then it has nothing to do with the loose transformer.

The antenna is not connected to the downlead.

So is there anything else I need to do while I am up on my roof besides connecting the terminal? I don't have to realign it, do I?

If it is still pointed in the same direction (toward Mt. Wilson) it was when installed it will be fine.

Balun (balanced-to-unbalanced) transformer matches the antenna feed impedance (300 ohms) to the coax impedance (72-ohms). At UHF those short balun pigtails represent a sizeable fraction of the wavelength and therefore are acting as an antenna themselves. Being so short they don't readily pickup the much longer wave length VHF signals.

It looks like the balun wires are not connected to the antenna element terminals. There should two terminals with wing nuts that it connects to.
Agreed it definitely looks like the downlead isn't connected to the antenna. It's probably such a strong signal area that the strong UHF channels are coming in without the antenna.

Is there any change to how stations broadcast their signal after the digital cut-off?

Before June 12, all significant local digital stations were on UHF. What changed is that chs 7, 9, 11 and 13 all moved to their old analog frequencies. A few UHF stations also moved to other UHF frequencies. Looking at the pictures of your antenna, I am not too surprised that you are having trouble with the VHF channels. It has at most only one dipole element to serve all of the Hi-VHF band, and it cannot resonate well at all of those frequencies.

You might want to consider getting a more substantial antenna, at least for Hi-VHF. An ideal solution would be to add a Hi-VHF antenna like the Winegard YA-1713. You could probably use a more substantial UHF antenna as well. That might be the cause of your problem with 5-1.

Problem fixed. We connected the antenna to the downlead and now we are getting all channels with outstanding reception. Thanks everyone.

If the spade lugs on the balun were still attached to the pigtail leads I suppose that the wing nuts might have just vibrated loose. (Though it's surprising what animals can do.) Adding lockwashers ought to prevent such again. However, antennas often have those lead-in attachment screws made of aluminum to avoid any electrolytic action between different metals so any additional/replacement hardware ought to be of the same metal.

I wanted to document my setup in case it's helpful to one of my neighbors someday. Basically all the stuff that took me hours and hours to figure out...

Prior to the HD transition I had a Terk TV32 on the roof. I must have a good line of sight to Mt. Wilson from here, because I got all the channels I wanted with the Channel Master 7775 pre-amp. Post HD transition, like so many of you, I wasn't able to get KABC nor KTTV since they moved to VHF.

Everything I read told me I'd need a big antenna in order to get the VHF channels from 49 miles away. I've been lucky with my CC&Rs here - they haven't said anything despite the antenna on the roof, although the Terk TV32 is pretty small. But I didn't want to go any bigger.

Thought about a C5, but I've heard mixed reviews here.

Decided to go large and put a big UHF / VHF antenna in the attic. I'd heard cement tiles can cut the signal by 90%, so I pulled the Terk off the roof, brought it up to the attic, and fed the cable through the vent into the attic. I just wanted to test the signal degradation in the roof. I was surprised signal strength dropped only 10 to 20 points for most channels, and I still got perfect picture with all except a couple I don't care about.

Ran down to Frys and picked up a Winegard HD7697P. This thing is huge. I put it together in the attic, replaced the Channel Master 7775 with a 7777 so it would boost the VHF signal, and I'm now picking up all the LA channels, including KCOP 13.1, which I never saw even before the transition. KTTV comes in at 53%, still strong enough for a perfect picture.

I was lucky the HD7697P fit in my attic. It's over 10 feet long with elements extending out all over the place. There is one place in the attic it would fit, and it just happened to be aligned pointing to Mt. Wilson. I have about 5 inches of fine tuning before one of the elements runs into the frame of the house.

The wiring is as follows: Winegard HD7697P to Channel Master 7777 pre-amp signal booster. From there, it's out the vent, along the edges of the tiles and down the side of the house to the grounding pass through. From there it enters the garage through the cable box and a hole in the wall, enters the other end of the Channel Master 7777, and then back out through the wall to the splitter. It then enters a signal splitter which feeds to 2 of the cable outlets in the cable box, feeding the bedroom and the family room. The bedroom splits the signal again to a set top DTV receiver as well as to the MYHD MDP-130 in my home theater PC. Both the PC and the DTV receiver feed into the old Panasonic plasma (no tuner). The other connection is to the Vizio LCD in the family room.

So I'm 49 miles away from Mt. Wilson, I have a Winegard HD7697P in the attic, under the cement tiles, and I'm getting all the LA channels. I never have to climb on the roof (at least not until Christmas) and SAMLARC can't fine me for a visible antenna. Couldn't be happier.

Ran down to Frys and picked up a Winegard HD7697P.

I stopped by a San Diego Fry's on Friday and was pleasantly surprised to see Winegard antennas in stock. They had the 7694 there vs. the 7697. However, the CM4221-HD was the most prominently displayed antenna, despite the fact it isn't ideal in an area with upper VHF stations, though it might work for some.

The 7694 would probably be easier to fit in an attic, but good job! As long as you own your own roof, the HOA's can't (legally) force you to take it down, but I figure that attic antennas ruffle fewer feathers in general. I have 3 antennas in my attic right now and it works well, at 51 miles. The CM4228 probably could handle the VHF stations ok, but I have the YA-1713 installed already.

The Y5-2-6 low-VHF antenna pulled in analog E-Skip, briefly, a few times, but it's so rare that I'm wondering if I should remove it after all. I have never seen any trace of DTV E-Skip on it.

May be time that I replaced my 1973 Archer V-100 here (it does well with our 23-kw 46-mi away KCWX-DT-5 when aimed reasonably at it). DTV Es decodes have been extremely rare on it for me - had a few seconds of WHBF-DT-4 (IL) at 950 miles Sat late afternoon. With 3 events, it's been my most often. KCWX blocks the most-DTV populated low-VHF channel http://www.qsl.net/wa5iyx/lovesavd.htm

This article on TVT may be of interest, as it is written from a local perspective:

The Analog Shutoff—One Viewer's Experience

http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/85278


In the early HDTV/DTV days, there was a strong interest in some quarters in putting all advanced television broadcasting on UHF channels. In Europe and other parts of the world, PAL and SECAM television broadcasting had been, for its history, confined to UHF channels. Initially, the U.S. "core spectrum"—that spectrum to which all television broadcasting would be relegated after the analog shutoff—was to be channels 14–59, completely in the UHF band. This got twisted around several times with the resulting core spectrum ranging from channels 2–51.

The dreams of the supporters of moving U.S. TV broadcasting fully into the UHF band have been shattered, and many old, powerhouse NTSC broadcasting stations have put their digital signals on their former analog RF channels. This has not been an unmitigated success.

Just seems that everyone has some issue and is not receiving all the channels available in the Los Angeles area. Is there anyone that is receiving everything, and what are they using?

Haven't yet tried for KEYT and MyRTN yet from Santa Barbara.

Just seems that everyone has some issue and is not receiving all the channels available in the Los Angeles area. Is there anyone that is receiving everything, and what are they using?

Haven't yet tried for KEYT and MyRTN yet from Santa Barbara.

I get everything except for a couple of spanish stations and KVCR (wrong direction).

I live in Anaheim in the shadows of a nearby hill and I am using:

A Y5-7-13 VHF-hi antenna
A CM4228 UHF antenna
and a 0265DSB UHF/VHF Preamplifier

All mounted in my attic underneath a cement tile roof.

The only thing I worry about is when it rains and my roof is wet. I might lose some stations.

Just seems that everyone has some issue and is not receiving all the channels available in the Los Angeles area. Is there anyone that is receiving everything, and what are they using?

Haven't yet tried for KEYT and MyRTN yet from Santa Barbara.

In Tustin, receiving everything but KVCR (never got the analog either - there's a mountain in the way) and sometimes KFLA (co-channel interference from San Diego). The older receivers occasionally have trouble with KNLA-LD.

Using an antenna on the roof (hint hint) provided by my apartments. I have an attenuator on the line because they've got it way over-amplified.

Surprised nobody mentioned the changes on KDOC...

- Trip

OK, I'll bite.

What changes?

They dropped the HD sub and changed the extra SD sub to religion?

- Trip

Just seems that everyone has some issue and is not receiving all the channels available in the Los Angeles area. Is there anyone that is receiving everything, and what are they using?

Haven't yet tried for KEYT and MyRTN yet from Santa Barbara.

I get everything I got before plus 8 and sometimes 10. I use a roof mounted 4228, nothing else. I'm in Valley Glen (between North Hollywood and Van Nuys).

Hi there

Just seems that everyone has some issue and is not receiving all the channels available in the Los Angeles area. Is there anyone that is receiving everything, and what are they using?

That's typical results for non-random, voluntary sampling: complainers make more noise than happy campers.

I get all the channels except KFLA with 2 separate attic antennas: a CM 4228 (no problem w/VHF-hi) and a 20-yr old RS combo. Each antenna feeds a different part of the house.

Regards

Installed a Channel Master CM-3016 on the roof today.
Single story house, antenna is approx 15ft. above ground, near Sonoma & Madrona.

Tuning ABC, K-CAL, Fox11, and KCOP are no longer a problem. Signal strength varies between 50% and 90% depending on the channel. The direction of the antenna is not optimized yet either.

http://www.channelmaster.com/channelmaster/product-overview.php?proID=30&catID=33

They dropped the HD sub and changed the extra SD sub to religion?

- Trip

Speaking of KDOC, do you know why its listings do not appear on TVGOS? Before the June 12 analog cutoff, they were listed, but as an analog station only, but that listing had the same programming as 56.1 and 56.2, and so I could still use the analog listing, but now the listing is gone. TVGOS never recognized the fact that KDOC was broadcasting DTV as well, so the listings are gone. Ditto for KVCR.

Unfortunately, I don't know. I'm familiar with the technical side of it, not the actual listings side.

- Trip

Surprised nobody mentioned the changes on KDOC...

- Trip

Jeez, one thing they didn't change was the anemic bitrates on those two suckers. Awful lotta wasted bandwidth on that signal, with an awful lotta artifacts to go with it.

This new religious whatever-it-is ain't exactly dripping in budget either are they. It's kind of Wayne's World with no furniture. Guess you got to start somewhere.

To my question if anyone is receiving everything. The overall response seems to be about half are very happy where they're at, and the other half may not need/want to go to the extra expense to get a few more channels of what they are not getting. Yes, this was only a random survey of this thread. Seems reflective of where DTV is after the switch. Thanks!

Speaking of KDOC, do you know why its listings do not appear on TVGOS? Before the June 12 analog cutoff, they were listed, but as an analog station only, but that listing had the same programming as 56.1 and 56.2, and so I could still use the analog listing, but now the listing is gone. TVGOS never recognized the fact that KDOC was broadcasting DTV as well, so the listings are gone. Ditto for KVCR.

Not that I ever watch KDOC, but I noticed that my TVGOS channel list grew by two recently. One addition was 56.1 (and 56 is still in the list as well). The other addition was THIS-TV 5.2. They were way down at the end of the 580+ channel list. I know for a fact that neither of those were in the channel list a month ago because I specifically looked for them. My Sony DHGs have the guide service, base version 8.01.71. I'm OTA only and host channel is 2.1.

To my question if anyone is receiving everything. The overall response seems to be about half are very happy where they're at, and the other half may not need/want to go to the extra expense to get a few more channels of what they are not getting. Yes, this was only a random survey of this thread. Seems reflective of where DTV is after the switch. Thanks!
I dunno. Maybe it's just me, but I think OTA always has been an remains a crapshoot. I wish folks in charge of stimulus money would spend it on a national Fiber network. Then the local station could be delivered over the fiber to every underserved community as well as others. Along with digital phone, internet and other services. And we can relegate the nonsensical stabbing in the dark black art of OTA reception to emergencies/back up usage and what not.

It's a yesteryear technology whos time to go has come.

Rudy

Not that I ever watch KDOC, but I noticed that my TVGOS channel list grew by two recently. One addition was 56.1 (and 56 is still in the list as well). The other addition was THIS-TV 5.2. They were way down at the end of the 580+ channel list. I know for a fact that neither of those were in the channel list a month ago because I specifically looked for them. My Sony DHGs have the guide service, base version 8.01.71. I'm OTA only and host channel is 2.1.

Thank you for the update. I checked my TVGOS a few days ago, and they weren't there then, but perhaps these were just added since then. My Elite KURO plasma came with TVGOS. I too am OTA only; with around 70 channels to choose from, it seems a waste of money to subscribe to cable or satellite, especially since the picture quality is generally inferior due to bandwidth compression, etc.

Yes! KDOC is in the TVGOS list now, but not KVCR.

Interesting reception conditions this morning. KCET, which is supposed to be the local PBS station was not coming in (not too unusual), but KPBS 15 in San Diego is coming in solidly! Also XETV 6, KFMB 8, KGTV 10 and KNSD 39, all serving San Diego, are coming in perfectly!

Not sure about LA in particular but I know some of the VHF/UHF frequencies changed around so folks were advised to rescan

Hi neighbor. What part of Simi Valley do you live in? I live in NE Simi Valley directly behind the 2714' Rocky Peak. If you live further west you probably get better reception even though you are farther away from Mt Wilson.

I have a Winegard 7015 in my attic and get all channels (2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, & 13) fine except 28 and 18 are a little iffy. I got 18 and 28 better before I split the signal 6 ways to feed all my TVs.

And in answer to your question 7, 9, 11, and 13 are now VHF. I get them all fine with my VHF/UHF antenna.

Rick R

Yes! KDOC is in the TVGOS list now, but not KVCR.



My list still contains analog 24 KVCR. In fact, none of the analog channels have been removed from the list yet. We must be receiving different versions of the list. :confused:

I dunno. Maybe it's just me, but I think OTA always has been an remains a crapshoot. I wish folks in charge of stimulus money would spend it on a national Fiber network. Then the local station could be delivered over the fiber to every underserved community as well as others. Along with digital phone, internet and other services. And we can relegate the nonsensical stabbing in the dark black art of OTA reception to emergencies/back up usage and what not.

It's a yesteryear technology whos time to go has come.

Rudy

More middlemen and more infrastructure to hike rates on and have fail.

Some/many out there consider DTV (and AM/FM HD radio) as a sinister plot to kill off OTA broadcasting period so that more white-space devices and their like can proliferate in the spectrum and reduce the FCC workload :rolleyes: The thousands of broadcasters who have spent billions on DTV upgrading (and no small loss of tower crews in the process) might wish that their investment would survive a mite longer.

My list still contains analog 24 KVCR. In fact, none of the analog channels have been removed from the list yet. We must be receiving different versions of the list. :confused:

Evidently we are. On mine, KDOC and KVCR continued to be listed as analog stations (incorrectly) for a few days after June 12, then disappeared. They continued to appear on the TVGOS SETUP screen, but could not be switched to ON. At least KDOC has been straightened out, and finally is listed as a digital station, even though it has been transmitting digitally for several years.

Evidently we are. On mine, KDOC and KVCR continued to be listed as analog stations (incorrectly) for a few days after June 12, then disappeared. They continued to appear on the TVGOS SETUP screen, but could not be switched to ON. At least KDOC has been straightened out, and finally is listed as a digital station, even though it has been transmitting digitally for several years.


KDOC 56.1 has stopped coming in to my Pio Elite several days ago (TV now shows "Channel not available"). However, 56.2 and 56.3 come in fine. I receive stations OTA via outdoor antenna. Do I need to re-scan to get 56.1 back? TIA

56-1 has been discontinued. 56-2 is now 56-1, and 56-3 is now 56-2. Yes, you need to rescan to get the correct numbers.

- Trip

56-1 has been discontinued. 56-2 is now 56-1, and 56-3 is now 56-2. Yes, you need to rescan to get the correct numbers.

- Trip

Okay, will do. Thanks a bunch :)

Anyone else having problems with KBEH? I've had consistent reception from it ever since it's early switch over to RF24, back in early June. Yesterday was the 1st time I couldn't receive it. Signal meter shows very weak signal.

No other channels seem affected. I'm even still receiving KNLA 20, which has been my weakest signal.

KDOC 56.1 has stopped coming in to my Pio Elite several days ago (TV now shows "Channel not available"). However, 56.2 and 56.3 come in fine. I receive stations OTA via outdoor antenna. Do I need to re-scan to get 56.1 back? TIA

Yes, I was noticing a somewhat similar thing on my main set, also a Pio-Elite. In my case, I was getting the Spanish language ESNE, correctly on 56.2 but nothing on 56.1. Following a rescan, it is coming in correctly. Interestingly, not all receivers are affected this way. I also have a Samsung STB that I am using with a Sony LCD, and it was able to "adapt" correctly without a rescan.

This change is a bit disappointing, however. There is no more 1080i on 56.1. Even though everything they were broadcasting was SD, I think it still looked better with the upscaling.

Even though everything they were broadcasting was SD, I think it still looked better with the upscaling.

It did, but it isn't the upscaling. It's the bitrate.

KDOC is still running its two SD streams at the same anemic 2-3 Mbps that they were using when the HD was on. This is about the same as 44 and 57 use on their each of their 8-stream subchannels, and 44 and 57 appear to be using much better encoders.

In other words, all those bits that were going to the HD? Now they're just going to waste, when they should be reassigned to the SD streams to improve their quality.

If they'd crank the SD bitrates up to 6 or 7 Mbps, the picture would be every bit as lovely as it was when they were upscaling.

Why is all this stuff so gosh darn hard for some of the LA engineers? Why do we have channels with null packets out the wazoo, and stretch-o-vision channels, and channels with no audio, and channels with audio on only one speaker, and blank PSIPs, and KFLA? Am I missing something here?

I like how KFLA-LD is in a category by itself. :D

- Trip

Hmmmm ... KTBN seems to have shut off all their subchannels other than the main one this morning. The main one is showing a bitrate of around 9.5 Mbps. (Standard def.)

What could they be up to? Is it a sign of the apocalypse? How will I get through my weekend without the Smile of a Child Network?

Why do we have channels with null packets out the wazoo, and stretch-o-vision channels, and channels with no audio, and channels with audio on only one speaker, and blank PSIPs, and KFLA? Am I missing something here?

You aren't missing anything...I think it is the station engineers and especially their management that are missing something!

Hmmmm ... KTBN seems to have shut off all their subchannels other than the main one this morning. The main one is showing a bitrate of around 9.5 Mbps. (Standard def.)

What could they be up to? Is it a sign of the apocalypse? How will I get through my weekend without the Smile of a Child Network?

Maybe they are finally getting ready to make the move to ch 33. They have always had a pathetically weak signal here. It doesn't even come in about 90% of the time, and even on analog it was always weak and snowy at best, even when picked up with a good roof antenna poined directly at Mt. Wilson. Instead I often get XETV 6, also on ch 23.

Maybe they are finally getting ready to make the move to ch 33. They have always had a pathetically weak signal here. It doesn't even come in about 90% of the time, and even on analog it was always weak and snowy at best, even when picked up with a good roof antenna poined directly at Mt. Wilson. Instead I often get XETV 6, also on ch 23.

I can only hope so. I live in San Diego, and KTBN-DT on channel 23 has always been a strong cochannel interference source for XETV-DT. Can't wait for KTBN-DT to move to channel 33.

Maybe they are finally getting ready to make the move to ch 33.

... which will mean bumping KSMV-LP (31-1) a/k/a the Redundancy Channel, which is already on 33.

I'm skeptical. (1) I don't see what one has to do with the other, and (2) I've heard rumblings of TBN going HD.

TBN in HD. It boggles the imagination.

In any case, my money (of which I have very little) is on Technical Difficulties.

To the best of my knowledge, TBN is already in HD. They just don't make it available over the air because they consider the multicast more important.

KSMV-LD will trade channels and thus be bumped to 23. There are already FCC filings noting this.

- Trip

KDOC is doing something. There are now several unknown streams. See attached.

I asked them to increase the program bit rates, but they just asked me to re-scan instead. nice

To the best of my knowledge, TBN is already in HD. They just don't make it available over the air because they consider the multicast more important.


I would rather remove one channel every time I scan and not all 5. Oh well, it's not that big of a deal. There are worse offenders in that department.

I think your encrypted streams are from Sezmi (http://www.sezmi.com/). I'm trying to confirm.

- Trip

Interesting. So, we can pay for HD service over the air? These bit rates and the antenna they have on the website are not encouraging, even if they have MPEG-4, etc.

Actually, as stupid as this may sound, if I could get ESPN and a couple other channels OTA I would. Right now, I can't stand the idea of paying for 300+ channels, when I only want a few on that side of the fence. Thus far, I remain OTA only for domestic TV, since I cancelled cable TV early last year.

I'm pretty sure it's MPEG-4 SD, though they wouldn't confirm that to me on the phone a few weeks ago.

Also, I'm told it's in testing at the moment and not available to the public.

- Trip

They are currently doing some maintenance on their microwave link to Mt. Wilson. They will be back with the multi-cast soon.

Is KNLA-LD (20-1, -2, and -3, on physical channel 50) popping on and off the air right now, or is it just my local reception?

This is purely of academic interest. It's not like HSN is selling dates with Anne Hathaway or anything ...

Is KNLA-LD (20-1, -2, and -3, on physical channel 50) popping on and off the air right now, or is it just my local reception?

This is purely of academic interest. It's not like HSN is selling dates with Anne Hathaway or anything ...

I was seeing the same intermittent signal until just around 5 minutes ago. And I am only 11-12 miles from Mt Wilson.

KTBN 40 (23) still has no subs and their PSIP/Guide data is funky. Wrong time, date etc.

Picking up Channel 3 and 12. Both Spanish, so am thinking the channels are from Mexico. Haven't turned the antenna so picking it up on bounce.

Also, TBN on 45, local channel.

Picking up Channel 3 and 12. Both Spanish, so am thinking the channels are from Mexico. Haven't turned the antenna so picking it up on bounce.

Also, TBN on 45, local channel.

I am picking up analog Spanish stations on chs 3 and 12 also. I have not checked the call signs, but I think ch 12 is probably XEWT, a long time San Diego area station just over the border. It is also on DTV 12.1, transmitting on ch 32. I have been picking up a lot of San Diego DTV stations lately, but never this one.

... which will mean bumping KSMV-LP (31-1) a/k/a the Redundancy Channel, which is already on 33...



Unless it has moved recently, it is transmitting on ch 23, not 33. The call sign I have for it is KVMD, which I have also seen elswhere on a subchannel of either ch 44 or 57, or maybe both. I have not been seeing anything at all on ch 33 except for an extremely weak analog "nightlight" station.

Is KNLA-LD (20-1, -2, and -3, on physical channel 50) popping on and off the air right now, or is it just my local reception?

This is purely of academic interest. It's not like HSN is selling dates with Anne Hathaway or anything ...

Yes;

KNLA-LD is "broadcasting" (to use the term loosely) on physical channel UHF-50 received at only about 50% signal strength here and poor PQ (ala KFLA-LD). Which makes it indeed a quite low power digital station alright since here in South L.A. with a hi-gain directional antenna (Winegard HD7697P) pointed at Mt. Wilson I usually get all of it's signals at exceptional strengths substantially above 50%.

Just for everyone's information ... As of this morning, double-checked with actual reception:

KTBN-TV: Physical channel 23, mapped to 40-1 through 40-5

KNLA-LD: Physical channel 50, mapped to 20-1 through 20-3
20-1 is a rebroadcast of KBBC-TV (20-1, Bishop, CA), which can also be found on analog low power KNLA-LP (27)
20-2 is a rebroadcast of analog low power KNET-LP (25)
20-3 is a rebroadcast of analog low power KHTV-LP (67)

KSMV-LP: Physical channel 33, mapped to 31-1, -2, -3, -6, -7, -8
31-1 is a rebroadcast of KVMD-DT (23-1 in Twentynine Palms) and is identified as KVMD-DT by the psip. KVMD itself cannot be seen in most of LA and Orange County - it's WAY too far east.
31-2 and 31-7 are rebroadcasts of KXLA-DT (44-1)
31-3 and 31-6 are rebroadcasts of KJLA-DT (57-1)
31-8 is "Voz y Vision," which can also be found on 57-7

I suspect your Spanish language analog stations are XHTJB (3) and XEWT (12), both in Tijuana.

Just for everyone's information ... As of this morning, double-checked with actual reception:

KTBN-TV: Physical channel 23, mapped to 40-1 through 40-5

KNLA-LD: Physical channel 50, mapped to 20-1 through 20-3
20-1 is a rebroadcast of KBBC-TV (20-1, Bishop, CA), which can also be found on analog low power KNLA-LP (27)
20-2 is a rebroadcast of analog low power KNET-LP (25)
20-3 is a rebroadcast of analog low power KHTV-LP (67)

KSMV-LP: Physical channel 33, mapped to 31-1, -2, -3, -6, -7, -8
31-1 is a rebroadcast of KVMD-DT (23-1 in Twentynine Palms) and is identified as KVMD-DT by the psip. KVMD itself cannot be seen in most of LA and Orange County - it's WAY too far east.
31-2 and 31-7 are rebroadcasts of KXLA-DT (44-1)
31-3 and 31-6 are rebroadcasts of KJLA-DT (57-1)
31-8 is "Voz y Vision," which can also be found on 57-7

I suspect your Spanish language analog stations are XHTJB (3) and XEWT (12), both in Tijuana.

Thank you for the clarification. I believe that the reason for any confusion stems from the fact the none of the digital channels listed here can be received in parts of the LA area, except that KTBN does come in on rare occasions. Chs 57.1 through 57.8 are quite strong, however, and KVMD is also on 57.8. But I have never picked up anything on either virtual chs 20 or 31, however. I do, however see a strong analog Spanish language station on ch 27 (call unknown), in fact it looks as if there is also a second, interfering analog station there as well.

I do, however see a strong analog Spanish language station on ch 27 (call unknown), in fact it looks as if there is also a second, interfering analog station there as well.

The analog edition of KNLA-LP is on 27 (it's a translator for KBBC), and they're in Spanish. One of your signals should be them.

Thank you for the clarification. I believe that the reason for any confusion stems from the fact the none of the digital channels listed here can be received in parts of the LA area, except that KTBN does come in on rare occasions. Chs 57.1 through 57.8 are quite strong, however, and KVMD is also on 57.8. But I have never picked up anything on either virtual chs 20 or 31, however. I do, however see a strong analog Spanish language station on ch 27 (call unknown), in fact it looks as if there is also a second, interfering analog station there as well.

One of the channel 27s should be XHJK-TV Tecate-Tijuana, a repeater of TV Azteca's channel 13 Mexico City (two hours delayed). It's a regular in coastal areas and occasionally comes in elsewhere in the basin and inland. It has a digital sister on channel 28.

Thanks for the updates. I am going to try to catch the call sign of the dominant station. Since I have no antenna rotator, I won't be able to seperate the two, but it is very possible that, at other times, the other may be stronger so that I will be able to determine its call as well.

Thanks for the updates. I am going to try to catch the call sign of the dominant station. Since I have no antenna rotator, I won't be able to seperate the two, but it is very possible that, at other times, the other may be stronger so that I will be able to determine its call as well.

It is KNLA-LP. It is putting in a very good analog signal, which is surprising considering that I have never picked up their digital signal. I am still seeing a second analog station underneath, most likely it is XHJK.

So I've been using my OTA Winegard SS-1000 SquareShooter UHF Only Digital for the past 4 years with my Tivo series 3. I live in Culver City.
Just a month ago, I lost KABC (7), FOX (11) and KCOP (13) HD reception. My channel scan is at 0 for all three when it was in the 90's before.

As I've read these forums for the past hour, am I correct in saying that I lost them cause they went VHF and in doing so my antenna can't receive them anymore and that I should go out and buy a VHF/UHF antenna like the Channel Master CM3016.

Will that do the trick ?
Is there a better antenna out there same size etc?
It will be outside.
Thanks for the reply. :D

As I've read these forums for the past hour, am I correct in saying that I lost them cause they went VHF and in doing so my antenna can't receive them anymore and that I should go out and buy a VHF/UHF antenna like the Channel Master CM3016.

Will that do the trick ?
Is there a better antenna out there same size etc?
It will be outside.
Thanks for the reply. :D

(1) Yes, (2) probably, and (3) I'll leave the antenna selecting to the experts.

So I've been using my OTA Winegard SS-1000 SquareShooter UHF Only Digital for the past 4 years with my Tivo series 3. I live in Culver City.
Just a month ago, I lost KABC (7), FOX (11) and KCOP (13) HD reception. My channel scan is at 0 for all three when it was in the 90's before.

As I've read these forums for the past hour, am I correct in saying that I lost them cause they went VHF and in doing so my antenna can't receive them anymore and that I should go out and buy a VHF/UHF antenna like the Channel Master CM3016.

Will that do the trick ?
Is there a better antenna out there same size etc?
It will be outside.
Thanks for the reply. :D

Winegard SS-2000, maybe. This model supposedly can pick up High Band VHF (7-13).

So I've been using my OTA Winegard SS-1000 SquareShooter

This article may be of interest:

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/SquareShooter.html

It suggests tilting the antenna for VHF reception.

However, if you are only seeing 0 now that's not a good sign. Also, KABC/7 is circular just like 9, so I'm surprised you don't see anything on 7 if you are getting 9.

A CM3016 should be fine, though it includes Low-VHF elements which aren't needed unless you want FM and future low power digital stations that may attempt operations on 2-6.

I wish that the 7-51/69 antennas prices would drop. It's still cheaper to get a "full-band" antenna than one optimized for post-transition DTV.

The main advantage of a 7-51/69 antenna is that they are about 3' wide vs. 7-10' wide. It will also reduce FM problems onto the upper VHF DTV stations. Here are a couple examples:

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=HD7694P
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=HBU22

I discovered last night that KMEX/34 appears to be testing mobile DTV. They have the stream for it.

I would be inclined to try it out, but understand the mobile DTV standard will be changed when it's finalized and will break existing receivers.

0x1eee (28.37% ~ 5.50 Mbps)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
0x1eee Unknown usage

finally got the converter boxes hooked up and antenna oriented.....I'm in the Tustin CA area...hilly and at about 400' elevation with 320* azimuth to Mt. Wilson. Antenna is 8' above a two story and not quite line of site to Wilson. There are a few trees about 600 yard out to the N/NW and a higher hill 800 yards out to the N/NE.

Set the antenna for highest signal strength on Ch 7 KABC which also corresponded to 320*. Sig strength in in the 60's.

Antenna is and older (6-7 years) Radio Shack with 18 elements and 33" wide and beam length is 10'. The front third is a Vee so the ant. looks like it was made (cut) for UHF/VHF.

RG coax with one splitter. What I would call a "booster" in line about 35 feet from the antenna 13DB ??? and a splitter right out of that box then to two TV's.

Ch2 scanned in but no signal
Ch4 "" signal sometimes early PM
Ch5 could not get to scan
Ch7 great
Ch9 "
Ch11 "
Ch13 "
Ch 18 " also 18-1 thru about 8
Ch22 somewhat ok but I dont spealk the lingo
Ch28 could not get to scan
Ch30 good most all the time
Channels in the 40's scanned but no reception just like Ch2
Ch 50 good
Ch 56 fair , does drop out sometimes.

So what I'm thinking is the antenna cant handle VHF LOW and is cut very narrow in the VHF HI band and the UHF part is cut for low UHF ??? but not being able to scan or recv Ch28 is a poser.....but maybe they have moved way up band UHF ? I really think the antenna needs the flotation test as I dont think R.S. is too swift a piece.....I can get a R.S. antenna that SUPPOSEDLY will work for all (according to the clerk who knows wayyy less than me) and if if it doesnt perform I can return it. Problem is I have to pack a lunch to get acess to the roof and is it high up there......HA!!

What should I do.......??? How about the HD7697P ??? at Fryes.....I just wan to do this once. Thanks in advance.........jaybee

RG coax with one splitter. What I would call a "booster" in line about 35 feet from the antenna 13DB ??? and a splitter right out of that box then to two TV's.

First thing to try - remove the booster. 13 dB may be overkill in Tustin, and digital tuners don't like being overloaded.

Second thing - check connections and wiring. They go bad over time.

Also, keep in mind that the actual channels being broadcast do not match the digital numbers. There are no low-VHF digital channels in the LA market.

I have tried removing the booster but will do so again.

I also checked the antenna connections when I oriented the antenna...the wing nuts etc. but you reminded me that I might have overlooked the bnc connector tothe balun which I used silicone sealant on......it might have internal corrosion....

so this changes my thinking.....no lo VHF and I reread my notes...

Ch2 = 43 = 336 meg
Ch4 = 36 = 290
Ch5 = 31 = 270

your right..nothing in low-VHF....just upper. When this antenna was used for analog the UHF wasnt that great also.

so I dont get too good of reception in surrounding the above three.....240 meg to 350 meg......could it be a big gain dip in the antenna "curve" ??

Hate to spend any $$$ but you might have it " check connections" ...just maybe corrosion in the UHF elements.......guess I'll do some roof climbing and cleaning.......ugh.

your right..nothing in low-VHF....just upper. When this antenna was used for analog the UHF wasnt that great also.

Hmmmm ... Also try it without that splitter. Some splitters don't pass UHF very well.

your right..nothing in low-VHF....just upper. When this antenna was used for analog the UHF wasnt that great also.


Considering your location and setup, you should have been getting very good UHF reception. Another thing to check is the coax type. It should be RG-6. In the past, RG-59 was mostly used, but it is very lossy at UHF frequencies. Also, it is even possible that your booster was only meant for use at VHF frequencies, and so it may actually be attenuating the UHF channels!

Ch2 = 43 = 336 meg
Ch4 = 36 = 290
Ch5 = 31 = 270
Those are CATV Ch frequencies there.
http://www.csgnetwork.com/tvfreqtable.html
OTA RF43=644-650 MHz, 36=602-608 MHz, 31=572-578 MHz

jaybee, you should use tvfool.com to check out your situation. Use the "Start maps" options to accurately locate your house (drag the icon on the map to the right place) and see how the signals from Mt. Wilson cover your area.

Try replacing splitters with a mechanical switch instead, and reduce cable length as much as possible. 20 feet of cable is 1 db loss.

OTA requires faith you can work it out. Have faith.

WA5IYX


your right in your freq statement....I took the data from "Falcon" in a post above.......I got a little confusing....
I was just trying to see IF a cetain spectrum of channels that I dont recieve was bunched together and if so it might point to the antenna and not the orientation or splitters.

so then with the freq chart you linked to....

and re-plugging in the numbers..for 2,4,5 28 and 30 which are non-recvd or iffy.....it comes down to 600 to about 670mhz that is the problem area. Might that indicate that my antenna is defcient in thet freq area??????????

-----------

Harrison S

As to the type of coax ....
I am using "RG"59 ...it has copper plated steel with 2 layers of foil and 2 layers of braid.....kinda an uprated 59 I think. But why would half the stations come in very well...and the other half not at all or poorly ??

Dave loudin

I did use TV fool as well as the other maps. All show in the good signal area for all the freqs.

and....
Ventura Viewer

says 'keep the faith"...............hey Im tryin.......Cox Cable :mad:
and all the others...no way. Even if they only charge five bucks a month I wont go for it.
Remember what Karl Marx said.....PAY TV is the opiate of the people.

What should I do.......??? How about the HD7697P ??? at Fryes.....I just wan to do this once. Thanks in advance.........jaybee
When I have my antenna pointed incorrectly, during my many pointing and testing experiments, I get similar symptoms to yours. So I guess my advice is, make sure you are pointed in the exact right direction. Which may end up being different than what you think it is supposed to be right now.

Rudy

it comes down to 600 to about 670mhz that is the problem area. Might that indicate that my antenna is defcient in thet freq area??????????

Maybe it's a VSWR problem....insert a short piece of coax (3', 6' whatever is available)
to LENGTHEN the cable....IFF you have a serious VSWR problem, it should change
which channels are affected.....

At UHF there are more (smaller) objects to produce multipath ghosting vs VHF so getting an antenna heading that's "clean" enough for a DTV decode can be far trickier at some locations. Unlike NTSC, you can't "see" this problem (and take corrective actions) with ATSC what with that system "throwing out" any signal that's too ghost-ridden :(

WA5IYX


Harrison S

As to the type of coax ....
I am using "RG"59 ...it has copper plated steel with 2 layers of foil and 2 layers of braid.....kinda an uprated 59 I think. But why would half the stations come in very well...and the other half not at all or poorly ??



That could be at least a part of your problem. It sounds like you have a very high quality RG-59, but it is still RG-59, and RG-59 is lossy.And the results you describe are just what one might expect, since these losses are very frequency dependent. They will be very small on the VHF channels, and rise sharply as one goes up in frequency. Thus they will be especially severe for the highest UHF channels. BTW how long is your coax line, approximately?

In any case, I would also, recommend following some of narkspud's suggestions regarding your antenna, splitters and connections.

Try moving the tv closer to the source within the area you have. Think one reason your not getting all the channels is power at the transmitting antenna. More power at the source equals happier receiving antenna. Go to Antennapoint.com (www.) and see what the power is for the ones your getting versus the ones your not getting. Guess is the one's your getting are the ones the have more power.

If you're subscribing to cable now, cancel it, move on faith that you can solve the problem and we can help you try to solve the problems you have.

Moving on faith requires action. Hint: cable bye bye.

So I've been using my OTA Winegard SS-1000 SquareShooter UHF Only Digital for the past 4 years with my Tivo series 3. I live in Culver City.
Just a month ago, I lost KABC (7), FOX (11) and KCOP (13) HD reception. My channel scan is at 0 for all three when it was in the 90's before.

As I've read these forums for the past hour, am I correct in saying that I lost them cause they went VHF and in doing so my antenna can't receive them anymore and that I should go out and buy a VHF/UHF antenna like the Channel Master CM3016.

Will that do the trick ?
Is there a better antenna out there same size etc?
It will be outside.
Thanks for the reply. :D

Well I got KABC(7) 3 channels and KCAL(9) but still missing FOX(11) and KCOP(13). I still don't know why either

Well I got KABC(7) 3 channels and KCAL(9) but still missing FOX(11) and KCOP(13). I still don't know why either


FOX 11 and KCOP 13 are not as strong as the other two. Also, their transmitting antennas are further east than the others and may be blocked by terrain to the west. These were major problem stations for me as well when they were on UHF. I could only get FOX 11 intermittently and KCOP 13 never came in.

Now, on VHF they come in perectly, even though they are not as strong as KABC and KCAL. VHF is much more forgiving when obstructions are involved. Where are you located? If you are west of Mt. Wilson, as I am, that might be a part of the problem.

FOX 11 and KCOP 13 are not as strong as the other two.

Any word on FOX increasing thier power? I used to get it before the switch and now I dont. I didnt get KCOP before the switch and now I do. :mad:

So I've been using my OTA Winegard SS-1000 SquareShooter UHF Only Digital for the past 4 years with my Tivo series 3. I live in Culver City.
Just a month ago, I lost KABC (7), FOX (11) and KCOP (13) HD reception. My channel scan is at 0 for all three when it was in the 90's before.

As I've read these forums for the past hour, am I correct in saying that I lost them cause they went VHF and in doing so my antenna can't receive them anymore and that I should go out and buy a VHF/UHF antenna like the Channel Master CM3016.

Will that do the trick ?
Is there a better antenna out there same size etc?
It will be outside.
Thanks for the reply. :D


To begin with, you MUST have an antenna that is rated for VHF, at least hi-band VHF, chs. 7-13. Don't expect to get anything if you don't! Whether the Channel Master CM3016 or any other specific VHF/UHF antenna will be adequate in your location, I cannot say. You can always try it and see. The best solution of all would be to add a seperate hi-band VHF antenna to your existing UHF setup. One good choice would be the Winegard YA-1713.

Any word on FOX increasing thier power? I used to get it before the switch and now I dont. I didnt get KCOP before the switch and now I do. :mad:

I believe they do intend to increase their power, and have petitioned the FCC for a permit to do so. It is true, they are the weakest right now.

your right in your freq statement....I took the data from "Falcon" in a post above.......

:confused:

I would like to know what you were looking at?

From the spreadsheet:

43 644 650
36 602 608
31 572 578

I strongly suspect that running a new RG6 cable to your antenna will solve the problem. Try replacing the balun at the antenna as well. A bad balun can behave strangely.

Do you have an indoor antenna you can try in the interim?

The suggestions above to remove the splitter and booster are good ones as well. Some splitters are only rated up to ~500MHz, etc.

RG coax with one splitter. What I would call a "booster" in line about 35 feet from the antenna 13DB ??? and a splitter right out of that box then to two TV's.
Also, maybe try new transformer at antenna (VHF/UHF 300 ohm to 75 ohm coax converter). If old one (or very cheap), may be deteriorated and lossy. /Dan

FOX 11 and KCOP 13 are not as strong as the other two. Also, their transmitting antennas are further east than the others and may be blocked by terrain to the west. These were major problem stations for me as well when they were on UHF. I could only get FOX 11 intermittently and KCOP 13 never came in.

Now, on VHF they come in perectly, even though they are not as strong as KABC and KCAL. VHF is much more forgiving when obstructions are involved. Where are you located? If you are west of Mt. Wilson, as I am, that might be a part of the problem.

I'm in Costa Mesa, far south of Mt. Wilson. Well I hope they increase their power soon cause football season coming up.

I'm in Costa Mesa, far south of Mt. Wilson. Well I hope they increase their power soon cause football season coming up.

COSTA MESA???

Unless you have a direct obstruction, you should be picking up those stations on your fillings. Central OC has a straight shot at Mt. Wilson, and you are not anywhere near too far south.

Work on that antenna system. Don't wait for a power increase. You'll never get any football that way.

Just wondering if there are any success stories on overcoming hills with vhf on the subject. Long distance, obstruction, yet still getting a signal. Or research on the subject.

Anyone know of online courses on television technology?

Just wondering if there are any success stories on overcoming hills with vhf on the subject. Long distance, obstruction, yet still getting a signal. Or research on the subject.

Anyone know of online courses on television technology?

HDTVexpert.com has an article about how he was able to receive distant stations blocked by a nearby hill. Good luck.

Former L.A. resident here, curious to know how OTA reception in Westwood/Brentwood/Santa Monica is. Would love to hear.

Thanks.

I am in East Ventura (near Saticoy), and have been happily living for years with good OTA UHF reception using only an indoors Silver Sensor (SS) pointed out a window, until the digital transition caused the need for good high VHF band reception. I was actually still getting the VHF channels most of the time with the SS, but often between 7pm and 10 pm the VHF reception would take sudden hits for 10 to 30 minutes at a time and lock up the picture (suspect interference from ham, CB, or cordless phone in the neighborhood), so this week I installed an EZ HD antenna (compact "751" design antenna that looks like the RCA ANT751) mounted on the side of the house at about 11 feet above the ground. VHF reception improved so much interference is no longer noticed. Trouble free UHF reception stayed about the same, as follows (out of 10):

SS EZHD
2 KCBS UHF 43 8 10
4 KNBC UHF 36 8 8
5 KTLA UHF 31 8 8

7 KABC VHF 7 3 10
9 KCAL VHF 9 6 10
11 KTTV VHF 11 5 10
13 KCOP VHF 13 6 10

28 KCET UHF 28 7 8
50 KOCE UHF 48 7 6
56 KDOC UHF 32 7 7
58 KLCS UHF 41 5 4

I had the above table all neatly aligned, but it didn't survive being posted. Hopefully, it is still readable. Bottom line is the EZ HD antenna works great for VHF, 10 out of 10 can't be beat, and the UHF reception is about what I was getting with the Silver Sensor, which is also extremely good.

As for the subject of hills blocking signals, I recall over 30 years ago the Navy had different band radars to do different things, and one rue of thumb was the lower the frequency, the better the radar signal could diffract over hills or even the horizon. VHF is a lot lower in freq than UHF, so yes it bends over hilltops a lot easier.

Knife-edge diffraction over obstacles is usually considered for VHF and UHF. Over-the-horizon (OTH) radar employs HF http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Over-the-horizon_radar and ionospheric effects (ask any SWL or ham that was active on the HF bands during the 1970's-1980's about the infamous "Russian Woodpecker").

The LA transmitter farms are in the area of the forest fires. CGC Communicator reported that engineers were requested to evacuate earlier this afternoon.

Live webcam of Mt. Wilson here (http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~obs/towercam.htm#imagetop). Looks hot, but can't tell if the fires are still threatening the transmitters. Everybody is still on the air as of this post, including the LPs.

The LA transmitter farms are in the area of the forest fires. CGC Communicator reported that engineers were requested to evacuate earlier this afternoon.

Live webcam of Mt. Wilson here (http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~obs/towercam.htm#imagetop). Looks hot, but can't tell if the fires are still threatening the transmitters. Everybody is still on the air as of this post, including the LPs.Wow. Is this a first time or has it happened before?

Do TV stations have backup transmitters in case disaster hit? That is a bad thing about these clusters of transmitters. :(

Do TV stations have backup transmitters in case disaster hit? That is a bad thing about these clusters of transmitters. :(I don't think they do, but this could be a good enough excuse for stations to pool the needed money together to put up another site. I propose the Hollywood Hills.

I don't think they do, but this could be a good enough excuse for stations to pool the needed money together to put up another site. I propose the Hollywood Hills.

That is a very good idea, especially since these fires have become such an on-going epidemic in the last couple of years. Also, I have often thought that the Hollywood Hills, though not as high, might actually have LOS coverage to more areas of So. Cal. than Mt. Wilson.

With the Mt. Wilson observatory the only "neighbor" to this antenna forest/farm not many NIMBY protests like any similar auxiliary site would likely face (and the controlled vs uncontrolled RF-exposure field limits). How come in the night scene only one of those sticks appears to have any functional hazard-warning lights for aircraft on it ? Are short towers on tall mountains exempt ?

A guy in the know on a radio board I visit said that unlike radio which have aux transmitters on the basin floor, our television stations have no back-ups.

So, if the fire torches the Wilson Farm expect no OTA signal for a very long time.

A guy in the know on a radio board I visit said that unlike radio which have aux transmitters on the basin floor, our television stations have no back-ups.

So, if the fire torches the Wilson Farm expect no OTA signal for a very long time.How long have these transmitter cluster/farm been around? I am surprised there are NO backups. What were they thinking? Their losses for losing transmitters and lots of money to So. CA!! Imagine that! :(

How long have these transmitter cluster/farm been around? I am surprised there are NO backups. What were they thinking? Their losses for losing transmitters and lots of money to So. CA!! Imagine that! :(

Or could back-up or contingency planing for such a catastrophe today as the antenna farm atop Mt. Wilson being torched by fire or some other calamity be primarily geared toward reestablishing direct communication with the CATV headends and DBS satellite local receive facilities by fiber, microwave, etc., instead of maintaining a system of auxiliary OTA transmitters at other hilltop locations since the number of TV homes in the L.A. DMA that are exclusively OTA reliant is comparatively small anyhow?

How long have these transmitter cluster/farm been around? I am surprised there are NO backups. What were they thinking? Their losses for losing transmitters and lots of money to So. CA!! Imagine that! :(

Television has been on Mt Wilson pretty much since inception. Broadcast pioneer Don Lee lit up experimental station W6XAO, the first television station in the world, in 1931. The original transmitter was located on Mt. Lee (above the Hollywood sign). W6XAO (now known as KCBS-2) moved to the Mt. Wilson location as more commercial television broadcasters began to dot the landscape in the 40's. They are all up there, even the lowly LPs.

More on that webcam from CGI Communicator:

If the camera is still pointing west when you view this
URL, you will see the tall KCBS-TV tower on the far right (the
orange and white tower and the only tower that is lit at night).
The tall mountain behind and just to the left of the KCBS tower
is probably San Gabriel Peak, and behind it (hidden from view)
is Mt. Disappointment.

San Gabriel Peak is about 2.5 miles from Wilson.

By the way, they are calling this the "Station Fire."

More on that webcam from CGI Communicator:

If the camera is still pointing west when you view this
URL, you will see the tall KCBS-TV tower on the far right (the
orange and white tower and the only tower that is lit at night).
The tall mountain behind and just to the left of the KCBS tower
is probably San Gabriel Peak, and behind it (hidden from view)
is Mt. Disappointment.

San Gabriel Peak is about 2.5 miles from Wilson.

By the way, they are calling this the "Station Fire."

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/8439/towercam2.th.jpg (http://img337.imageshack.us/i/towercam2.jpg/)

Just posted on boards.radio-info.com (http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?topic=151865.10), poster DavidEduardo ...

The last engineer on the mountain, Brian from Fox TV, says there is no immediate danger to the transmitter sites, as the fire is moving towards Acton and Santa Clarita... the other direction.

The parts of the fire on the in the mountain areas will just have to burn off. Firefighters will protect the areas that have population, and, of course, Wilson since it has much more than just the radio and tv facilities.

By the way, they are calling this the "Station Fire."

Interesting. I always thought it was the "Morris Fire" above Azusa that would be a threat to Mt. Wilson. The "Station Fire" would need to travel quite a few miles eastward from the La Canada Flintridge area to reach Mt. Wilson. Of course, it is huge and out of control and so anything could happen at this point.

I feel sure that most of the main commercial stations would have been set up in the late 40's, around 1948, after commercial TV had its start in the U.S. Interestingly, the observatory has been there since the turn of the 20th century, and I don't know if even it has ever been threatened by fire before.

There seems to be a lack of live streaming video fire coverage by KCBS et al like there had been in Oct 2007, etc. I've had to resort to the KNX-1070 audio stream so far this time. I guess they consider that the KCBS painted/lighted (tallest) tower on Mt. Wilson is an adequate aircraft-hazard warning for the rest of the (shorter) sticks up there.

... I guess they consider that the KCBS painted/lighted (tallest) tower on Mt. Wilson is an adequate aircraft-hazard warning for the rest of the (shorter) sticks up there.

Yeah...

When I first saw the web-cam shot I thought it was an AM broadcast antenna and was wondering what that was doing on Mt. Wilson. Then I quickly remembered that it must be the old ~1000 ft KCBS guyed tower of the analog era.

I finally bought an LCD TV. Now I know why some have complained about the PBS sub channels that broadcast in 480, escpecially Channel 58. One of the worst sub channels is CREATE. Faces are very blurry

This is my first LCD TV and my old standard def, picture tube TV has no problems with the 480 shows, using a digital converter box. The channel 7 accu weather subchannel is by far the worst.

Is this an issue with any LCD TV, or just those with a 1080 resoluation or 120HZ?
The channels broadcasting in 1080 look great! Even most of the 720 shows look great. But many of the 480 channels are hard to watch.

I finally bought an LCD TV. Now I know why some have complained about the PBS sub channels that broadcast in 480, escpecially Channel 58. One of the worst sub channels is CREATE. Faces are very blurry

This is my first LCD TV and my old standard def, picture tube TV has no problems with the 480 shows, using a digital converter box. The channel 7 accu weather subchannel is by far the worst.

Is this an issue with any LCD TV, or just those with a 1080 resoluation or 120HZ?
The channels broadcasting in 1080 look great! Even most of the 720 shows look great. But many of the 480 channels are hard to watch.

Many of our 480 channels are bit-starved, and/or being fed from the same poopy analog equipment they were using before, and/or sourcing from already-compressed satellite or internet streams. Some of them aren't even full standard def. 7.3 for instance is actually transmitting 528x480.

All that being said, I suggest reading the AVS topic about your particular TV model before pitching it out the window. There may be things you can do to improve matters. TVs come from the factory set up to look good next to other TVs in a showroom, not for the more demanding environment of your living room.

Of course it could be that you just bought a TV that doesn't upscale SD very well ....

Create gets bounced through a couple extra re-encodes compared to the rest of the PBS channels and has substandard PQ for everyone everywhere.

The LA transmitter farms are in the area of the forest fires. CGC Communicator reported that engineers were requested to evacuate earlier this afternoon.

Live webcam of Mt. Wilson here (http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~obs/towercam.htm#imagetop). Looks hot, but can't tell if the fires are still threatening the transmitters. Everybody is still on the air as of this post, including the LPs.

KWHY 22 had an outage yesterday (Saturday) afternoon. Was off air OTA and on DirecTV.

Create gets bounced through a couple extra re-encodes compared to the rest of the PBS channels and has substandard PQ for everyone everywhere.

I disagree about the substandard PQ comment. I watch Create on my Sony 720p LCD and I have no complaints about the picture quality, it is as good or better than the other subchannels I watch especially 5.2. I did do a calibration with an AVIA Home Theater Calibration DVD so the OP should give that a try first.