these machines will do VHS and SVHS, but recording the digital channels in DVHS requires at minimum an SVHS tape (with a hole drilled in the shell at the appropriate spot). Actually... it's infinitely simpler than that. Just put the S-VHS tape in, then push the D-VHS Recording Mode button! And then you'll be able to set recording speed to HS, and you're off and running. No need to fool the machine by drilling a hole in the cassette.

Note that I have never done this. I only use official D-VHS tapes.


Those are no longer being made, although still plentiful on ebay last I checked.Not the DT100U. In fact, there are zero.

You may find 30K and 40K models available, and perhaps a DH5U. But DT100U are super-rare.


I'm not sure how it works with the digital tunerRecording HD programs OTA (HS speed) or via firewire (from STB/DVR) gives you 2 1/2 hours on DF300 tape, 3 1/2 hours on DF420 tape.


And if nothing else ... IT'S A FRIGGIN' VHS DECK WITH HDMI! :DCorrect... it outputs all formats to HDMI and component video, even 480i SD content (which also goes to S-video and composite). And does all kinds of digital audio transcoding... output via HDMI and optical as well as to L/R analog stereo.

HD content plays back at "native" resolution via HDMI and component video, at whatever resolution the program was broadcast at when it was recorded.

Plus... the B&H price special is ridiculous.

Actually... it's infinitely simpler than that. Just put the S-VHS tape in, then push the D-VHS Recording Mode button! And then you'll be able to set recording speed to HS, and you're off and running. No need to fool the machine by drilling a hole in the cassette.

Then that's different from the D5HU - no hole, you get S-VHS. I remember some folks would go into the machine and chop off the hole detecting pin, thus solving the problem permanently.

Not the DT100U. In fact, there are zero.

I was talking about the S-VHS and D-VHS tapes. Still obtainable, but no longer made.

Recording HD programs OTA (HS speed) or via firewire (from STB/DVR) gives you 2 1/2 hours on DF300 tape, 3 1/2 hours on DF420 tape.

SD from an analog source (say, a converter box) at LS3 speed gives you 12 hours on an ST-120, and 14 hours on a DF300. Finding an exact spot on a 12-hour tape can get tricky. ;)

the B&H price special is ridiculous.

Totally agree with this!

SD from an analog source (say, a converter box) at LS3 speed gives you 12 hours on an ST-120, and 14 hours on a DF300.And 21 hours on a DF420.

Furthermore, LS3 recording is a digital (machine-produced MPEG compressed from analog input) format, which is actually almost indistinguishable from the highest quality SP S-VHS analog recording mode... except that you get 12 hours of it on the same ST-120 tape you'd get 2 hours of in SP mode for S-VHS. This was truly a breakthrough.

With "21-hour tapes" I'd often use LS3 mode to cover my SD recordings for 1-2 weeks when I'd go on vacation, using my D* receiver S-video as the source.


Finding an exact spot on a 12-hour tape can get tricky. ;)True, but this is the prime characteristic of any sequential recording media that really makes it impossible to effectively compete with random-access and textually/visually GUIDE'ed storage devices (like DVD).

But the VCR does allow skipping forward to index points (i.e. recording start-points), skip-searching forward 30-seconds per click, and I think it also supports the unbelievably unfriendly and cumbersome but remarkable "automated navigation directory" system JVC first brought out on their later high-end S-VHS machines (that works off of a digital table-of-contents stored at the front of the physical tape).

I was talking about the S-VHS and D-VHS tapes. Still obtainable, but no longer made.I posted another "alert" in the HDTV Recording forum a while back, on this very subject. It was increasingly apparent that retailer stocks of new blank DVHS media were disappearing and that fewer and fewer remained in possession of units for sale... meaning prices for whatever was left was bound to increase.

I urged DVHS owners to consider this, and future-proof themselves now. I bought 20 DF300 and 20 DF420 blanks from a supplier that still had them and still priced them reasonably.


SD from an analog source (say, a converter box) at LS3 speed gives you 12 hours on an ST-120, and 14 hours on a DF300.Actually, a DF300 will give you 15 hours at LS3 speed.

HS = 28.2 Mbps (HD D-VHS recording from ATSC tuner or firewire sources, which is 2 1/2 hours on a DF300)

STD = 14.1 Mbps (this is 5 hours on a DF300, i.e. "SD D-VHS" recording as I get with my HDR-205 firewire-connected to my D* E45 receiver)

LS3 = 4.7 Mbps (VCR-produced MPEG compressed from analog input, which is 15 hours on a DF300)

Could all these "recording posts" please be made/moved to the HDTV recording forum so that this forum remains for LA OTA posts?

Thanks guys.

Looked into your situation. Looks like you've pretty much optimized what is possible, save for more power at the transmitting antenna.

What you can do though, is look into where the signals you are interested in tend to fade out. So, look into the closer areas along the transmitting path: i.e. Whitewater, Morongo. Just for the channels you are trying to get. And see at what point your antenna would work for those channels. Where, further down the trail would the antenna work for those channels.

Great choice of setup.

Hello All,

I hope I can get some assistance with my inquiries regarding the type of antenna that would work best for my location.

I live in a 2 story building in Burbank and I am on the second floor with a balcony; I'm hoping to use the antenna on the balcony rather than going up on the roof.

If I step out onto the balcony and face the street, I would be looking at 300-315 degree with respect to North.

Does anyone have any good product suggestions to use with my location and direction? If any further info is needed, please ask and will provide.

Thanks again...

You are very close to Mt Wilson. If feasible, I would just mount a small VHF/UHF antenna on a long pole that extends above the roofline. Point it towards the east and attach the pole to your balcony. Or place the antenna inside and place it alongside the east wall. There's plenty of signal to spare so you should still be able to receive all the stations even inside the building. Go to antennaweb.org for antenna suggestions.

You are very close to Mt Wilson. If feasible, I would just mount a small VHF/UHF antenna on a long pole that extends above the roofline. Point it towards the east and attach the pole to your balcony. Or place the antenna inside and place it alongside the east wall. There's plenty of signal to spare so you should still be able to receive all the stations even inside the building. Go to antennaweb.org for antenna suggestions.

I guess ~20 miles is being close to Mt. Wilson and thanks for the help. I looked at the site you provided and gives me the type of antenna I'll need but still want to know if anyone can recommend a directional antenna.

I was wondering if anyone has tried the Winegard FV-HD30 and how it performs for those of us who have taller buildings around our residence.

Thanks again for the help...

AJ13:

Take a look at the Antennacraft® HDX1000 Amplified HDTV Antenna sold at RadioShack http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3740644

It is a combo VHF/UHF dish style so will fit nicely on a balcony and good up to 50 miles.

Just point it at Mount Wilson and you should get 7 thru 63!

I use one to bring in my local channels and have been very satisfied.

The beauty is you can buy it, try it and return it to RS if it does not work.

On-line is out of stock but use the option tocheck the stores near your zip.
I see that Big Bear has it.

AJ13:

Take a look at the Antennacraft® HDX1000 Amplified HDTV Antenna sold at RadioShack http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3740644

It is a combo VHF/UHF dish style so will fit nicely on a balcony and good up to 50 miles.

Just point it at Mount Wilson and you should get 7 thru 63!

I use one to bring in my local channels and have been very satisfied.

The beauty is you can buy it, try it and return it to RS if it does not work.

On-line is out of stock but use the option tocheck the stores near your zip.
I see that Big Bear has it.

Thanks jhb50...However, I'd like to get something where I can also get channels 2-6 also...

It also looks like I can't mount any of the antenna's on my balcony as I need to face Mt. Wilson which is almost 180 degrees from where the balcony faces. I was hoping to avoid going up on the roof and mounting anything up there and pull the line for it, managers a bit of a pain...

There's no such thing as a good, small antenna for low VHF. As far as I know, LA doesn't even have any low VHF digital channels, so that's a lot of added expense, weight, and ugliness for no benefit. My recommendation is the Winegard HD7694P, which should easily receive all high VHF and UHF channels if you can put it on the roof, and it's not so big that it's an eyesore.

Thanks jhb50...However, I'd like to get something where I can also get channels 2-6 also...

You don't need 2 through 6 in LA (unless you're just dying to watch the art slides on the Guadalupe Radio LP on analog 6). All the digital signals in the LA market - including the ones that are PSID'd as 2, 4 and 5, are broadcasting on 7 through 51.

due to the cold weather and no rain currently, and got the following frequencies. Need to find out what channels they are:

In MHZ: 177, 201, 527, 551, 719.

If there are any websites that can tell what channels these are.

due to the cold weather and no rain currently, and got the following frequencies. Need to find out what channels they are:

In MHZ: 177, 201, 527, 551, 719.

If there are any websites that can tell what channels these are.

The frequencies you gave are the center of each of the broadcast channels. Just look up a TV frequencies chart.

The first two are VHF 7 & 11. Then, UHF 23 & 27. The last one is UHF 55 which is Qualcomm's MediaFLO service which cannot be decode with conventional ATSC tuners. Most of them probably are from Mt Wilson unless you were aiming elsewhere.

due to the cold weather and no rain currently, and got the following frequencies. Need to find out what channels they are:

In MHZ: 177, 201, 527, 551, 719.

If there are any websites that can tell what channels these are.


The corresponding channel numbers are, respectively: 7, 11, 23, 27 and 55.

You can find a conversion table at http://www.csgnetwork.com/tvfreqtable.html.

You don't need 2 through 6 in LA (unless you're just dying to watch the art slides on the Guadalupe Radio LP on analog 6). All the digital signals in the LA market - including the ones that are PSID'd as 2, 4 and 5, are broadcasting on 7 through 51.


Thanks narkspud, wasn't aware of that...

Now my only objective is to find something that I can place on my balcony rather than the roof...

Anyone think this will be possible with the direction of my balcony (~ 180 deg opposite of Mt. Wilson) and with the products that are available?

Anyone recently lost KCBS?

My current set up uses an old CM 4228 and a CM Crossfire antenna for VHF on the same mount. I received KCBS for a couple of years then recently lost signal completely. New Multipath problem? I am currently in the southbay near beach over a hill. No direct line of site to Mt Wilson but pick up about 60 DTV stations with current set up.

Thanks narkspud, wasn't aware of that...

Now my only objective is to find something that I can place on my balcony rather than the roof...

Anyone think this will be possible with the direction of my balcony (~ 180 deg opposite of Mt. Wilson) and with the products that are available?
Unless there's a tall building directly opposite your balcony that you can pick up a bounce from, forget it. Even with a bounce, it's more luck than anything else.

Anyone recently lost KCBS?

My current set up uses an old CM 4228 and a CM Crossfire antenna for VHF on the same mount. I received KCBS for a couple of years then recently lost signal completely. New Multipath problem? I am currently in the southbay near beach over a hill. No direct line of site to Mt Wilson but pick up about 60 DTV stations with current set up.

It's probably a change in multipath strengths. I just lost KTTV after this recent rainstorm, but I still could get KCAL and KCOP. I went up to my attic a few minutes ago and moved the VHF antenna up about a foot. Now I get KTTV loud and clear. In your case you will have to move your 4228 up or down to get KCBS but that may be hard to do if your mount is on the roof. You could also try turning your antenna to the right or left to see if that helps.

Anyone recently lost KCBS?

My current set up uses an old CM 4228 and a CM Crossfire antenna for VHF on the same mount. I received KCBS for a couple of years then recently lost signal completely. New Multipath problem? I am currently in the southbay near beach over a hill. No direct line of site to Mt Wilson but pick up about 60 DTV stations with current set up.

A lot depends on when you lost it. You didn't say.

Retiredengineer, thanks for the response. I haven't been able to move the antenna yet due to the recent bad weather. It's a real pain climbing up on the roof.

ProjectSHO89, I lost the signal about 3 weeks ago. I keep wondering if there was some recent tower or construction that affected the signal causing multipath. I have considered buying new set up, yagi for more directional and vhf antenna with separate mounts, but that's going to cost a lot of money.

Compare KCBS with your other weak stations based on power (KW). It is a weaker signal. Only get it when conditions are ideal out here in Ventura. Really ideal. If your on the other side of a hill, your using refraction. Lately, the weather has been pretty consistent between the top of a hill and in the canyon. It's basically been just cold. The signals bend when there is a temperature differential. As you go into the canyon, or on the other side of a hill, the colder it gets the better. It's the difference in temperature. Also works well in a canyon when there is a cold breeze. Pulls the signals in. So, for your location since there may not be as much of a temperature differential, one option is to wait it out, and look for changing weather to work in your favor later on. One option is to wait it out.

Changing the antenna right now may not be what you need to do.

Hope this helps.

Yesterday other than 11, I got all my LA stations except KCBS which dropped out about 80% of the time.

They are currently broadcasting at 540KW but have approval to increase that to 1000KW. Does anyone know when that will be completed?

WRT 11, I read a blog that detailed severe staff cuts at 11 so it looks like they have big $ problems and their power upgrade may impacted. I'm trying to get more info on their plans from another source.

KSFV-CA (analog 6, Guadalupe Radio) has apparently decided this morning that the video portion of their signal is a formality that they can safely dispense with. IE they're currently transmitting only audio, with no video carrier at all.

I wonder how that will play given their Class A status. Are the E/I requirements met if you don't show the picture?

KLAU-LP (analog 45) is off the air again, but that ain't exactly news.

Our KFLZ-CA-6 here hasn't gone that far yet - they still have a raster (used to have an ID, but hard to see when KENS-5 NTSC was still on). The audio is simulcast on 102.3 as K272EK. Spectrum efficiency ?

KSFV-CA's video is back. Must've been a malfunction or something. Or a decision that was quickly rescinded.

Wondering if it's better to use the three wire cord in lieu of RG-6. RG-6 has line loss of 1 db per 20 feet. Not sure about the wire cord. Do not know it's name.

Wondering if it's better to use the three wire cord in lieu of RG-6. RG-6 has line loss of 1 db per 20 feet. Not sure about the wire cord. Do not know it's name.

You must specify a frequency when speaking of line loss, since it is completely dependent on frequency. Your statement is about right at the top of the DTV spectrum, i.e., channel 51, but the loss in much less on the lower channels, especially VHF.

Wondering if it's better to use the three wire cord in lieu of RG-6. RG-6 has line loss of 1 db per 20 feet. Not sure about the wire cord. Do not know it's name.

If you are thinking a lower loss transmission line will help your fringe reception, it will not. The antenna preamplifier you are using compensates for the line loss of the RG-6. You just have to make sure the preamplifier gain is 10 dB greater than the expected line loss. If you are using a splitter at the television then this extra loss must also be included.

The second tv gets a channel at the lower frequency than the first tv. KPXN is at the margin at times. Is running better now. Appreciate the responses on the issue. Reception of KPXN has improved. Thanks.

I just moved to Burbank a bit East of the airport and would really like to go strictly OTA. Unfortunately when I put my address into antennaweb it literally shows 2 channels and they're purple. Do I have any chance of getting most OTA channels if I take some extreme measures (whatever those might be as I'm new to this), or should I just give it up and move on?

Using refraction or the bending of waves you should be able to pick up more channels. Try tvfool.com and post the results here. There are reports of signals being received to Burbank from Mount Wilson. And, there are talented folks willing to help you. Take a walk around your neighborhood, looking for tv antennas. Other websites for Over the Air (OTA) television: Antennapoint.com; Titantv.com; Dtv.gov. Some Manufacturers: Winegard.com; Channelmaster.com; and Distributor: Solidsignal.com. Ensure you are confident it's going to work before you invest hard earned money.

Been doing it like six or seven years, so have saved quite a bit over paid cable or satellite television.

I just moved to Burbank a bit East of the airport and would really like to go strictly OTA. Unfortunately when I put my address into antennaweb it literally shows 2 channels and they're purple. Do I have any chance of getting most OTA channels if I take some extreme measures (whatever those might be as I'm new to this), or should I just give it up and move on?

Don't rely on Antennaweb to make your decision. However, if you are in the shadow of Verdugo Hills, it can certainly be tough.

Try TVFool.com and see what that tells you:

http://www.tvfool.com/

I wouldn't give up hope unless the channels you want are in gray.

Antennaweb gives me little hope for reliable attic reception where I live, but they couldn't be more wrong.

I would like to see if others are seeing an improvement in KCOP's signal. It's now the top upper VHF station on both my DTVPal DVR and my On-Air GT. It was weaker again for a while. I'm wondering if it's related to the new antenna they are supposed to be installing.

I would like to see if others are seeing an improvement in KCOP's signal. It's now the top upper VHF station on both my DTVPal DVR and my On-Air GT. It was weaker again for a while. I'm wondering if it's related to the new antenna they are supposed to be installing.

There is no real change here. KCOP is running about 63%, while KTTV is at about 47%. KABC and KCAL are both reading 100%. All of this is pretty typical.

I'm wondering too about KCBS -DT. Have they increased their signal strength recently? I know they were approved to increase their wattage from 540KW to 1000KW.

Been picking it up also. Weaker channels have been able to be picked up out here. Also, from the north, in the winter am picking up KEYT from Santa Barbara. Winter seems better for picking up weaker stations.

Since KCOP and KTTV were 13 and 15 KW stations with plans to increase to 115KW and 120KW, and since KCOP now comes in super strong while KTTV is so weak I can not get it, I have to assume that the KCOP upgrade has been completed.

Similarly since thew KCBS signal is still marginal while KOCE, KNBC and KTLA at 1000KW are super strong, I have to assume that KCBS is still at 540KW.

Tired of waiting for CBS and FOX to deliver a quality picture!

How about somebody take their engineers out for a beer and find out what is really going on.

Since KCOP and KTTV were 13 and 15 KW stations with plans to increase to 115KW and 120KW, and since KCOP now comes in super strong while KTTV is so weak I can not get it, I have to assume that the KCOP upgrade has been completed.

Similarly since thew KCBS signal is still marginal while KOCE, KNBC and KTLA at 1000KW are super strong, I have to assume that KCBS is still at 540KW.

Tired of waiting for CBS and FOX to deliver a quality picture!

How about somebody take their engineers out for a beer and find out what is really going on.

I doubt if KCOP has increased their power to 120KW yet, since I have seen no change in their signal strength for a few months. Their signal did improve somewhat however, probably around August, but that was probably the result of antenna improvements. When they increase power by a factor of almost 10, I would expect to see a huge jump in the signal strength.

Actually, the HD picture quality on KTTV looks pretty good considering that it is only 720p. The in-studio news broadcasts on KCBS and KCAL however, definitely have a rather soft-looking picture, and I think that they must be using some obsolete, or otherwise substandard quality equipment.

Perhaps they are using cheaper 720p cameras and then upscaling the video to 1080i. Especially annoying is the fact that many, but not all of their remote news anchors are obviously still using SD cameras, even though it is 16:9. These blurry pictures look terrible on a modern, large display, and can cause a lot of eyestrain. These shortcomings, however, are not necessarily the case with network and other broadcasts which do not use the in-studio cameras, etc., and some of these broadcasts can look much better.

I believe that by far the best video on news broadcasts is on KTLA, which is not only 1080i, but uses high quality equipment throughout. The other stations would do well to follow their example.

Anyone know if any of the San Diego stations have applied for an increase in power?

KFMB increased from 14.9 kW up to 19.8 kW a while ago I think. That's all I know of.

- Trip

KFMB increased from 14.9 kW up to 19.8 kW a while ago I think. That's all I know of.

- Trip


It is surprising that its power is that low. It certainly comes in strong here, 140 miles to the NW, during the summer when the skip is there, but, of course, not now.

It is surprising that its power is that low.

Well, KTTV and KCOP are both at less than 15 kW right now. A number of upper-VHF stations are at similar power levels.

- Trip

Well, KTTV and KCOP are both at less than 15 kW right now. A number of upper-VHF stations are at similar power levels.

- Trip

Is KFLA-LD1 8.1 in that same category too? I'm in Rancho Cucamonga, but not receiving them as of yet. I am getting 11, and 13 still after the cutover, but the signal is noticeably weaker.

KFLA-LD is a low-powered station, and as such is capped at 0.3 kW.

- Trip

Well, KTTV and KCOP are both at less than 15 kW right now. A number of upper-VHF stations are at similar power levels.

- Trip

I was only surprised because I was receiving it so well 140 miles away, not because of the low power level per se.

Is KFLA-LD1 8.1 in that same category too? I'm in Rancho Cucamonga, but not receiving them as of yet. I am getting 11, and 13 still after the cutover, but the signal is noticeably weaker.

Even though TVFool shows KFLA 8.1 as "LOS" for my location in the Porter Ranch area, I have never been able to pick it up. Apparently they are using a directional antenna that beams almost everything to the south. Chs. 11 and 13 are solid here, dramatically better than they were before the changeover.

Even though TVFool shows KFLA 8.1 as "LOS" for my location in the Porter Ranch area, I have never been able to pick it up. Apparently they are using a directional antenna that beams almost everything to the south. Chs. 11 and 13 are solid here, dramatically better than they were before the changeover.

KFLA's service contour map (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=LD1208527.html). Porter Ranch? Give it up.

FWIW, you ain't missing much.

KFLA's service contour map (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=LD1208527.html). Porter Ranch? Give it up.

FWIW, you ain't missing much.


Thanks for the link. It looks like I was right - no wonder I couldn't pick it up.

KFLA's service contour map (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=LD1208527.html).

Sigh... Sometimes those FCC contours are just so wrong (compared to this KFLA-LD coverage map (http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=80&q=call%3dKFLA-LD%26type%3dD%26sitenum%3d0)). There's just no way anyone out in the Victorville area will get this channel (as the FCC implies).

HarrisonS,
If you've got LOS to the transmitter, it's probably still possible to get it, but your probably looking at a much lower NM than you get with channels 11 and 13. However, as narkspud was saying, it may not be worth it.

Best regards,
Andy

Wow, the wind must be howling up on Mt Wilson.

I can't get KCET-28, KOCE-50, KDOC-56 or KCLS-58. Can anyone else confirm this? What a drag, I usually watch Nova and Frontline on Tuesdays.

Yes, I can confirm this as of 7:46 P.M. Tuesday, 12/22/09.

L. B. in Monrovia.

Yes, I can confirm this as of 7:46 P.M. Tuesday, 12/22/09.

L. B. in Monrovia.
Thanks for the secondary report. Now I don't have to troubleshoot my setup. :)

For the record KTBN-40, KXLA-44, KAZA-54 & KJLA-57 are also down.

Been researching the Gray-Hoverman tv antenna. There is a new design Gray-Hoverman with Nerod. You can Internet search. Looks like it's being used up to 140 Miles from a transmitter. Would expand the LA area by a significant amount. From the North maybe include Santa Barbara, to the South going past Desert Hot Springs, to the east probably into Barstow.

Worth looking into for fringe viewers.

Put a Channel Master preamp 7777 with it.

Like the fact that it it's plus db is about the same for VHF-HI, and UHF.

What did I see this morning while channel surfing? I thought I caught a glimpse of a PSA about keeping channel 13 on the air. Is that correct? Are they headed to the trash heap of history?

What did I see this morning while channel surfing? I thought I caught a glimpse of a PSA about keeping channel 13 on the air. Is that correct? Are they headed to the trash heap of history?

They're headed for a big carriage fees standoff with Time Warner Cable. They will still be available over-the-air.

http://newteevee.com/2009/12/22/time-warner-vs-fox-here-we-go-again/

http://www.rolloverorgettough.com/

http://www.keepfoxon.com/fox

Anybody getting a 13.2 called Fox11 SD? There is some sort of signal according to my CECB, but there is no audio or video.

Anybody getting a 13.2 called Fox11 SD? There is some sort of signal according to my CECB, but there is no audio or video.
I bet KTTV and KCOP will each carry their sister station in SD on each of their x.2 subs if the Time Warner Cable war comes to a standoff next week. They might as well get redundant coverage for those that get KTTV but not KCOP and vice versa.

There could be a lot of people scrambling to get their rabbit ears together to watch the BCS Bowl games on Jan 1 if Time Warner pulls the plug on Fox.

Well, there are threats every few months. They always gets resolved one way or another. Nobody is going to miss any Bowl Games, though I would not mind paying less if I could get rid of Fox News as the station has zero news and is 100% partisan commentary on the same subject 24 hours a day.

Well, there are threats every few months. They always gets resolved one way or another. Nobody is going to miss any Bowl Games, though I would not mind paying less if I could get rid of Fox News as the station has zero news and is 100% partisan commentary on the same subject 24 hours a day.

Stations have actually gone dark on local cable networks, and once IIRC on Dish Network. Nothing on this large a scale, but then I don't know if any networks have demanded this big an increase before.

Fox News isn't one of the cable networks affected. It'll be interesting to see what kind of coverage they give this story if this does get to the blackout stage!

KLAU-LP (or another analog station) is back on 45 (analog). I noticed they were off a few days ago and thought they had finally turned it off for good. Not exactly.

They have a covering license for 66 just North of Rancho Cucamonga. Can anyone get a lock on this? I haven't seen any evidence of it, but I'm shielded by hills.

They also have an LD app for 53 for Mt. Wilson at 15kW. I wonder why they can't convert the existing 45 facility to digital? An app for 45 to the East was dismissed, but another one has been filed for the same area.

The analog LP on 45 doesn't even appear in the FCC TV Query anymore.

Edit: I thought KLAU-LP always had their logo in the upper right hand corner, but I don't see it right now.

I wonder why they can't convert the existing 45 facility to digital? An app for 45 to the East was dismissed, but another one has been filed for the same area.

It looks like the CP for KSKJ-CA(DC) for Van Nuys on 45 is preventing future operations of KLAU on 45 on Mt. Wilson.

http://licensing.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1327458&Service=DC&Form_id=401&Facility_id=36717

KLAU-LP (or another analog station) is back on 45 (analog). I noticed they were off a few days ago and thought they had finally turned it off for good. Not exactly.

They have a covering license for 66 just North of Rancho Cucamonga. Can anyone get a lock on this? I haven't seen any evidence of it, but I'm shielded by hills.

They also have an LD app for 53 for Mt. Wilson at 15kW. I wonder why they can't convert the existing 45 facility to digital? An app for 45 to the East was dismissed, but another one has been filed for the same area.

The analog LP on 45 doesn't even appear in the FCC TV Query anymore.

Edit: I thought KLAU-LP always had their logo in the upper right hand corner, but I don't see it right now.

I strongly suspect that despite the license to cover for KLAU on 66 from the Rancho Cucamonga foothills that facility is not, and has never been, on air.

I would expect to see some sign of it here in the Pasadena area but nada and I have checked many times.

Which raises the point that, having been granted digital 66, what in the hell are they doing still on air on analog 45?

Albeit intermittently and with nothing but small blocks of infomercials.

Falcon_77 as you mention, no longer even bothering with any from of legal ID even in the mandated top of the hour window.

Lots of FCC violations, it seems to me, both from the program and the tech side.

Low-powered stations do not have to ID at the top of the hour.

- Trip

KLAU-LP (or another analog station) is back on 45 (analog). I noticed they were off a few days ago and thought they had finally turned it off for good. Not exactly.

They have a covering license for 66 just North of Rancho Cucamonga. Can anyone get a lock on this? I haven't seen any evidence of it, but I'm shielded by hills.

They also have an LD app for 53 for Mt. Wilson at 15kW. I wonder why they can't convert the existing 45 facility to digital? An app for 45 to the East was dismissed, but another one has been filed for the same area.

The analog LP on 45 doesn't even appear in the FCC TV Query anymore.

Edit: I thought KLAU-LP always had their logo in the upper right hand corner, but I don't see it right now.

Low-powered stations do not have to ID at the top of the hour.

- Trip

Thanks Trip it was in the back of my mind that maybe LPs were exempted.

That exemption makes a mockery of requiring any station to identify itself.

KLAU-LP (or another analog station) is back on 45 (analog).

I can prove it was KLAU: It's off the air again.

So, interestingly, is KTAV-LP, analog 69. No trace of a digital version, but their analog signal wasn't exactly blowing my doors off.

The only change I can detect on the digital side is the disappearance of KFLA's 8-5 subchannel. They also have a lovely herringbone pattern in the video on 8-2 and 8-3. Very impressive ... I didn't think that was even possible with digital. :)

So, interestingly, is KTAV-LP, analog 69. No trace of a digital version, but their analog signal wasn't exactly blowing my doors off.

I can confirm that analog 69 is gone.

*I thought I could see why. According to the spectrum analyzer I picked up, there's a booming signal centered around 800MHz. It's about 4MHz wide, and looks like a digital signal of some sort. It's got a fairly flat top, but will test it out on the main antenna later. It's really strong, even on the whip antenna I'm using with the SA right now.

In a way, it's nice to finally see some activity, other than FloTV. It was bothering me that the FCC is "suggesting" that broadcasters should give up more spectrum when what we gave up is little used... well, it's still little used, even with this.

According to the spectrum analyzer I picked up, there's a booming signal centered around 800MHz. It's about 4MHz wide, and looks like a digital signal of some sort.

Ok, this is embarrassing, the signal on 800MHz is coming from my computer. Now that I'm back home and testing it out, the signal vanishes just a few feet away and when I turn off my computer. It looks like such a clean signal that this is surprising. I wonder what it is... the memory bus?

Ok, this is embarrassing, the signal on 800MHz is coming from my computer. Now that I'm back home and testing it out, the signal vanishes just a few feet away and when I turn off my computer. It looks like such a clean signal that this is surprising. I wonder what it is... the memory bus?

Probably the FSB clock. Many of those are currently running at 800 MHz.

LA Times article (from yesterday)

Rabbit ears make comeback in digital TV era

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-rabbit-ears25-2009dec25,0,5668446,full.story

It was on the front page for those that get the paper version.

Probably the FSB clock. Many of those are currently running at 800 MHz.

Or maybe picking up a harmonic (the 4th here specifically) of it, since I don't think the clock for the CPU processor's FSB actually runs at 800 MHz, but uses quad-pumping for the data transfers over the FSB at a fundamental clock rate of 200 MHz.

im using a panasonic tc42s1 the latest plasma from panasonic , and im noticing a slight underscan in kabc-dt (the abc logo is slightly cropped at the bottom). kabc is the only channel i cannot set my tv to display the full image, for the other channels i can display it without overscan by setting the HD picture size in the settings menu.

is anyone else noticing this? why does kabc not let us display the channel without overscan?

im using a panasonic tc42s1 the latest plasma from panasonic , and im noticing a slight underscan in kabc-dt (the abc logo is slightly cropped at the bottom). kabc is the only channel i cannot set my tv to display the full image, for the other channels i can display it without overscan by setting the HD picture size in the settings menu.

is anyone else noticing this? why does kabc not let us display the channel without overscan?

I've noticed this with my Sony 46Z5100. I can turn overscan off on 1080i but not with 720p with the signals it tunes.

im using a panasonic tc42s1 the latest plasma from panasonic , and im noticing a slight underscan in kabc-dt (the abc logo is slightly cropped at the bottom). kabc is the only channel i cannot set my tv to display the full image, for the other channels i can display it without overscan by setting the HD picture size in the settings menu.

is anyone else noticing this? why does kabc not let us display the channel without overscan?

Hi there

You seem to use the terms underscan and overscan as synonyms.
I've always heard of overscan (and underscan) as something caused by the display device, not the source.

I can display the digital TV channels in a window on my computer monitor without any kind of overscan. KABC-DT has their logo quite close to the bottom of the screen, definitely closer than any other channel. There are still several more scan lines below the abc logo; it is not cropped as you see it on your TV. Channel 7.2 has the logo well above the bottom edge, more than twice the distance as 7.1.

Unless there is specific content that is outside the broadcast safe area, you would have a very difficult time determining if your TV is overscanning the image. KABC-DT makes it easy for you because their logo is outside the safe area. Otherwise you'll probably have to use test patterns to confirm the overscan at other resolutions by your TV.

The Wikipedia article on "overscan" mentions that "HDTV sets crop out text and station logos".

Regards

Image capture (Jimmy Kimmel & Rachel McAdams):
http://mysite.verizon.net/ress3f9f/id5.html

Article on Yahoo. Probably elsewhere too. Ad revenues not where they were. Networks would cease their contracts, and go cable and satellite exclusive. Creating Independents. Give it 5-10 years to evolve to. We have time to see where it goes...

Someone can add the link..

Article on Yahoo. Probably elsewhere too. Ad revenues not where they were. Networks would cease their contracts, and go cable and satellite exclusive. Creating Independents. Give it 5-10 years to evolve to. We have time to see where it goes...

Someone can add the link..

Probably, if the direst predictions come true, free TV will "reinvent itself" using new business models and thereby survive. Quality and variety would probably suffer, however.

Article on Yahoo. Probably elsewhere too. Ad revenues not where they were. Networks would cease their contracts, and go cable and satellite exclusive. Creating Independents. Give it 5-10 years to evolve to. We have time to see where it goes...

Someone can add the link..

Sounds like self-appointed "experts" that need to prognosticate in order to meet the deadline for their column/blog.

There's an old saying: "don't believe everything you read."

Hi there

You seem to use the terms underscan and overscan as synonyms.
I've always heard of overscan (and underscan) as something caused by the display device, not the source.

I can display the digital TV channels in a window on my computer monitor without any kind of overscan. KABC-DT has their logo quite close to the bottom of the screen, definitely closer than any other channel. There are still several more scan lines below the abc logo; it is not cropped as you see it on your TV. Channel 7.2 has the logo well above the bottom edge, more than twice the distance as 7.1.

Unless there is specific content that is outside the broadcast safe area, you would have a very difficult time determining if your TV is overscanning the image. KABC-DT makes it easy for you because their logo is outside the safe area. Otherwise you'll probably have to use test patterns to confirm the overscan at other resolutions by your TV.

The Wikipedia article on "overscan" mentions that "HDTV sets crop out text and station logos".

Regards

Image capture (Jimmy Kimmel & Rachel McAdams):
http://mysite.verizon.net/ress3f9f/id5.html
ok yes i mixed up the two what i meant was that in kcbs ,knbc and kcal9 i can turn on UNDERscan in my panasonic tc42s1 and thus see all the edges of the safe area even noise but not with KABC....it seems that the option is greyed out when i go to my user menu. in your picture i can see the ABC snow flake logo fully but in my tv i cannot see the bottom edge of the snow flake. it just annoys me a little why kabc (or maybe its just the 720p channels) dont let me turn on underscan unlike the 1080i channels?

ok yes i mixed up the two what i meant was that in kcbs ,knbc and kcal9 i can turn on UNDERscan in my panasonic tc42s1 and thus see all the edges of the safe area even noise but not with KABC....it seems that the option is greyed out when i go to my user menu. in your picture i can see the ABC snow flake logo fully but in my tv i cannot see the bottom edge of the snow flake. it just annoys me a little why kabc (or maybe its just the 720p channels) dont let me turn on underscan unlike the 1080i channels?
ok wait i think i might have just answered my own question my tv is a 1080p would that cause 720p images to be overscanned??

KBEH has lit up subchannels 63.3 and 63.4.
No programming yet, just a test pattern with a high pitched audio tone.

Sounds like self-appointed "experts" that need to prognosticate in order to meet the deadline for their column/blog.

There's an old saying: "don't believe everything you read."
How very true....lots of hyperbole and maneuvering for position going on...

"When negotiating, always ask for far more than you expect will happen...."

The wireless companies claim they need 800 MHz more spectrum than is available:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-30686_3-10416093-266.html
Taking over the Ch14-51 UHF TV band would provide 228 MHz....clearly they need more....
And the TV/FM bands are already overly congested in major metro areas....
One thing that COULD happen is to combine multiple Low Power channels
onto the SAME frequency....

By asking for the ridiculous, they emphasize their need for ACTION....which the FCC
will study for a year or two....or three....or four....

BTW: Is there really that much demand for watching live TV while driving
(carpool lanes are grossly underutilized in San Diego....even with solo FasTrak drivers)
not to mention the big jump in accidents that are GUARANTEED to occur....

LA Times article (from yesterday)

Rabbit ears make comeback in digital TV era

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-rabbit-ears25-2009dec25,0,5668446,full.story

It was on the front page for those that get the paper version.

Networks consider ditching `free TV'
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation/story/1402576.html

Deadline looms for Time Warner Cable and News Corp. (Fox)

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-ct-cable31-2009dec31,0,4266615.story

I wrote the author to let him know that running to satellite or FIOS, etc. aren't the only options. One can always try putting up an antenna if they want Fox 11 and/or MyN 13.

Apparently, Fox is planning a campaign to encourage viewers to switch to satellite TV to solve the problem.

Surely you're aware Rupert Murdock owns not only Newscorp, but also HUGHES, the DIRECTV operator:
http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/messages/1/7968.html?1262284266#POST41170
Surely there can't be any Anti-Trust issues at work here....

The ONLY network "considering" ditching "free TV" came from the mouth of Rupert Murdock...

Actually, Murdoch no longer owns DirecTV. It was sold in 2006 or 2007.

- Trip

Actually, Murdoch no longer owns DirecTV. It was sold in 2006 or 2007.

- Trip

This is correct. John Malone's Liberty Media has the controlling interest in The DirecTV Group. Murdoch's News Corp got out of DirecTV in November of 06.

As I stated before, KVMD seems to be targeting the Inland Empire exclusively on 31.1. For the most part, this station seems to be receivable only there and in parts of OC. KJLA 57 also carries KVMD on 57.8 and this station is extremely strong here, "against the pin" in fact. Channel 57 has nine subchannels, and if ch 31 has multiple subchannels, it seems likely that these would also be duplicated on ch 57. Thus, there seems little point in worrying about ch 31 in the LA area.

Well now I'm receiving KVMD 31.1 in LA after re-positioning my indoor uhf bowtie antenna at a different angle, though the reception is 50% at best. One subchannel that is NOT duplicated is 31.3, the Italian channel.

still having trouble getting KTTV, HarrisonS? I can get it clear enough, close to 70% reception with the attached vhf "rabbit ears" antenna stretched out high and long.

This is correct. John Malone's Liberty Media has the controlling interest in The DirecTV Group. Murdoch's News Corp got out of DirecTV in November of 06.

You might want to take a look at this article (http://www.multichannel.com/article/84128-Murdoch_I_Was_Frightened_of_Cable_Triple_Play.php), ProjectSHO89.

I might ask my brother to cancel his cable subscription to TWC socal since they plan to drop the local LA FOX and myTV channels (KCOP & KTTV) off their channel lineup.

still having trouble getting KTTV, HarrisonS? I can get it clear enough, close to 70% reception with the attached vhf "rabbit ears" antenna stretched out high and long.




No, you must have misunderstood, I only had trouble receiving KTTV 11 before the transition last June. Since then I have been getting it 100% of the time. Before the transition it was transmitting on UHF ch 65 and that was a disaster. KCOP 13 was even worse, and I never was able to get it. Now both stations are 100% here.

I cannot get KVMD 31.1, however. It seems to be mainly serving the IE.

KBEH has lit up subchannels 63.3 and 63.4.
No programming yet, just a test pattern with a high pitched audio tone.

I notice also that ...

(1) They've fixed the stretch-o-vision on 63-1 and 63-2 (finally),

and

(2) Honest-to-golly stereo audio on both. FINALLY!!!

Meanwhile over on KFLA-LD :D, 8-4 has an improved SD picture and (gasp!) professional-sounding stereo audio. I'm getting occasional dropouts in the audio, but that might just be my signal.

8-5 (with its MP2 audio) is gone.

Lest you get the impression that competence is breaking out all over for 2010, 8-3 audio is still out of phase, and the video on 8-2 is downright snowy, looking exactly like a weak UHF analog signal. Ah, the nostalgia.

Happy new year all!

I could not find a thread on SM only. I hope this is the right area to ask:
Does anyone get any OTA channels in Sierra Madre (just north east of Pasadena, CA) . I live pretty far north up against the mountain but not in the canyon. No Line of Sight to the Mt. Wilson transmitters. My TV's here have never really just picked up signals like we used to living down in the LA basin.

Will a roof top antenna help in Sierra Madre?
What kind of antenna should I consider?

I am thinking about ditching TW cable. It would be nice to pickup OTA channels for as long as they last in this changing landscape.

I could not find a thread on SM only. I hope this is the right area to ask:
Does anyone get any OTA channels in Sierra Madre (just north east of Pasadena, CA) . I live pretty far north up against the mountain but not in the canyon. No Line of Sight to the Mt. Wilson transmitters. My TV's here have never really just picked up signals like we used to living down in the LA basin.

Will a roof top antenna help in Sierra Madre?
What kind of antenna should I consider?

I am thinking about ditching TW cable. It would be nice to pickup OTA channels for as long as they last in this changing landscape.

Put your address into http://www.tvfool.com and see what you get. That should give you some idea of what to expect/not to expect and what sort of antenna you will need in order to expect it.

Well now I'm receiving KVMD 31.1 in LA after re-positioning my indoor uhf bowtie antenna at a different angle, though the reception is 50% at best.



I can get KVMD 31.1 + subchannels with a UHF loop antenna when placed near the window during favorable weather conditions. I will have to try a bowtie or some better antenna because the channel only comes here sometimes.

Is there anybody able to pick up KVMD 31.1 in the Los Angeles area with a Zenith 901? Reason for asking is it seems from my limited experimentation that Zenith cannot pickup the station at all.

KBEH has lit up subchannels 63.3 and 63.4.
No programming yet, just a test pattern with a high pitched audio tone.
What is this tone, 2 kHz.? What happened to good ol' 700 Hz.?

I can get KVMD 31.1 + subchannels with a UHF loop antenna when placed near the window during favorable weather conditions. I will have to try a bowtie or some better antenna because the channel only comes here sometimes.

Is there anybody able to pick up KVMD 31.1 in the Los Angeles area with a Zenith 901? Reason for asking is it seems from my limited experimentation that Zenith cannot pickup the station at all.

No problem with my Zenith 901's picking up KVMD via low power KSMV 31.1 etc. with an old indoor UHF/VHF set up.

However I am only 11-12 miles away from Mt Wilson and Mt Harvard.

Of the 3 low power stations my problem station is KNLA-LD 20 (RF 50).

hi all, does anyone know if kttv/kcop has increased their transmission power, and if so what its running at now? i read here:

http://gadgetress.freedomblogging.com/2009/09/22/channel-11-fox-still-missing-from-many-oc-la-tvs/21993/

that the stations were not able to run full power till feb 2010 but this was awhile
back and was wondering if anyone has any update info. thanks

KBEH has lit up subchannels 63.3 and 63.4.
No programming yet, just a test pattern with a high pitched audio tone.

Right now they are displaying a static test pattern. It can be used to check your TV calibration settings, i.e. brightness, contrast (aka picture), color, and if you have a LCD, your backlight.

hi all, does anyone know if kttv/kcop has increased their transmission power, and if so what its running at now? i read here:

http://gadgetress.freedomblogging.com/2009/09/22/channel-11-fox-still-missing-from-many-oc-la-tvs/21993/

that the stations were not able to run full power till feb 2010 but this was awhile
back and was wondering if anyone has any update info. thanks


I measure no change in signal strength on either station at present. Evidently they are both still running the same power levels.

Right now they are displaying a static test pattern. It can be used to check your TV calibration settings, i.e. brightness, contrast (aka picture), color, and if you have a LCD, your backlight.

And unless I'm seeing things it appears KBEH has dropped their silly 16:9 stretch-o-vision as well.

Finally wising up on that annoyance at least ...

Does anyone have any recommendations for an installation company? I've fiddled around w/a few indoor antennas for OTA in LA but have gotten horrible results. Before I go spend the money/time/frustration for an outdoor antenna, I'm thinking I should just trust a pro who actually knows what they are doing...

I could not find a thread on SM only. I hope this is the right area to ask:
Does anyone get any OTA channels in Sierra Madre (just north east of Pasadena, CA) . I live pretty far north up against the mountain but not in the canyon. No Line of Sight to the Mt. Wilson transmitters. My TV's here have never really just picked up signals like we used to living down in the LA basin.

Will a roof top antenna help in Sierra Madre?
What kind of antenna should I consider?


I am around the corner from you in far northeast Pasadena. I am able to get most of the stations, even without line-of-sight. Things deteriorate rapidly to the east and north, so your exact location is going to be key. Do the tvfool thing and post the results. There is a big "shadow" SE of Mt. Wilson that makes some of Sierra Madre nearly impossible for OTA. Look around your neighborhood to see if anyone has a rooftop antenna.

For me, the location of the antenna is more important than the model. Due to multipath, diffraction and trees, the volume of space around my property (yours too, probably) is a patchwork of hot spots and dead spots. The real challenge is to find a place where the channels you want all come in at once. It is handy to have a tuner that you can carry with you as you try different locations, such as a laptop with a USB tuner stick; or you need a patient assistant and two telephones.

I found that I needed different locations for a UHF and VHF-hi antenna. I join the leads with a "UVSJ" and the signals stay clean. I am getting best results from DIY models (a Mclapp 4-bay bowtie for UHF and a loop-with-reflector for VHF).

will KLCS ever have a HD broadcast? their programs are awesome (certainly on par with KCET and KOCE) and their broadcast certainly deserves the HD treatment!

will KLCS ever have a HD broadcast? their programs are awesome (certainly on par with KCET and KOCE) and their broadcast certainly deserves the HD treatment!

While anything is possible of course;

Given the LAUSD's seemingly eternal inefficient and cash-strapped nature in spite of an operating budget that alone would probably rival some small countries, I wouldn't exactly hold my breath waiting for any HD upgrade for KLCS.

Considering also that there is a big time and expense difference between only upgrading to broadcast in an HD format and actually having an ample supply of native HD material to broadcast.

double doubleheader on sunday football today! this must be a first. sweet

although i think 99% of ppl only care to watch the fox cowboys eagles game.

raiders-ravens game though is by no means meaningless

Re: 11/13

I measure no change in signal strength on either station at present. Evidently they are both still running the same power levels.

The article mentioned 30% power (presumably 30% of 115kW) as an interim solution (for Fox/11), but I've seen no evidence of this. No STA, no change to the signal, etc.

I don't remember this Fox DTV survey:

http://www.myfoxla.com/subindex/about_us/contact_us

I would suggest that we have as many people as possible fill this out. I already sent them my comments, also asking about when the upgrade(s) will be ready.

http://myfoxla.upickem.net/engine/YourSubmission.aspx?contestid=12909

Right now they are displaying a static test pattern. It can be used to check your TV calibration settings, i.e. brightness, contrast (aka picture), color, and if you have a LCD, your backlight.

You know it's kind of funny having worked in a TV station many years ago well back in the analog era, as one can imagine I saw the standard NTSC split-field color bar test signal enough to see and understand it subconsciously in my sleep. So when I first saw the KBEH one on 63-3 and 4, I kept thinking to myself something is missing here.

Until I realized they were the I and Q chrominance signal test pulses formally positioned to either side of the 75 IRE white bar pulse in the bottom quarter of the raster.

I wonder why they are missing here today? :rolleyes:

I live in Hawthorne. According the TVFool I am 27 miles from Mt. Wilson and I can received all channels from Mt. Wilson fine. However, I would also like to receive channel 24.1 (KVCR) which is 61 miles away. I only have OTA. My antenna (and its cable) are about 25 years old. About 25% of the time I can pick-up KVCR (the other 75% of the time I get a blank screen), so I am right on the edge depending on weather conditions. Other than buying a new antenna, is there anything I can do to bring in KVCR 100% of the time? Would a pre-amp help? I recently turned my antenna from pointing to the North-East directly at Mt. Wilson to pointing East directly at KVCR. This improved reception of KVCR a little without affecting any of the Mt. Wilson channels. As a last resort, if I buy a new antenna, which one would you recommend for my situation?

Let's give a big LA welcome to the latest new subchannel ... KAZA's 54-2. It's currently running the same program as 54-1, but it's a different episode with different commercials.

Like 54-1, video is 720x480. Video bitrate is between 2.5 and 3 Mbps. The picture is pretty artifacty for that bitrate. And primary audio is a gurgly 56 kbps. (Secondary audio is a silent 56 kbps.)

Welcome to the Club. You might consider trying an experiment and reduce the cable from the antenna to the set top box, and see what that does. Others might have suggestions about KVCR. If your only interested in that one channel you'd really have to think about it for making any kind of large investment. If you post tvfool.com results here, than others can comment about what you can consider. You can edit the tvfool file before posting to remove your exact location. Don't need that to comment on it. Might consider building an antenna. Do you have any of those metal clothes hangars lying around and some chicken wire? There are people who make their own antennas to save their hard earned dollars. Welcome.

I live in Hawthorne. According the TVFool I am 27 miles from Mt. Wilson and I can received all channels from Mt. Wilson fine. However, I would also like to receive channel 24.1 (KVCR) which is 61 miles away. I only have OTA. My antenna (and its cable) are about 25 years old.

A general TV Fool plot of Hawthorne suggests that KVCR should be attainable.

The cabling is my first concern, if it's 25 years old, it probably should be replaced with new RG-6 cabling.

Also, what does the antenna look like? Does it have UHF elements? e.g, does it look like this one below or does it not have the front elements?

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=HD-7015&d=Winegard-HD7015-VHFUHFFM-Prostar-1000-TV-Antenna-%28HD7015%29&c=TV%20Antennas&sku=615798398149

Note that the widest VHF elements are not needed for DTV in LA. So, if you end up replacing the antenna, something like this can be considered:

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=HBU33&d=AntennaCraft-33-Element-UHF--HighBand-VHF-Outdoor-HDTV-Antenna-%28HBU33%29&c=TV%20Antennas&sku=HBU33

A pre-amp could cause more problems than it solves, due to strong signals from Mt. Wilson, but if you leave the antenna at an off-angle it might be doable. A high input pre-amp, such as the HDP269 probably has the best chance of success:

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=ANWHDP269&d=Winegard-HDP-269-SquareShooter-PreAmplifier-for-SquareShooterSS1000-%28HDP269%29&sku=615798396145&mc=03

CM7777 should work even better, 27 miles away from Mt Wilson (and no other nearby towers).

Biggest problem receiving KVMD on Ch23 is STRONGER KSMV-LP on that
same channel and an even stronger KBEH on adjacent Ch24. Good Luck....

Does anybody know how to find out the OTA signal strength for where you live? I'm sick of paying Cox cable for channels that I don't want.

Does anybody know how to find out the OTA signal strength for where you live? I'm sick of paying Cox cable for channels that I don't want.

http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29

http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29

Thank you very much! :)

A general TV Fool plot of Hawthorne suggests that KVCR should be attainable.

The cabling is my first concern, if it's 25 years old, it probably should be replaced with new RG-6 cabling.

Also, what does the antenna look like? Does it have UHF elements? e.g, does it look like this one below or does it not have the front elements?

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=HD-7015&d=Winegard-HD7015-VHFUHFFM-Prostar-1000-TV-Antenna-%28HD7015%29&c=TV%20Antennas&sku=615798398149

Note that the widest VHF elements are not needed for DTV in LA. So, if you end up replacing the antenna, something like this can be considered:

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=HBU33&d=AntennaCraft-33-Element-UHF--HighBand-VHF-Outdoor-HDTV-Antenna-%28HBU33%29&c=TV%20Antennas&sku=HBU33

A pre-amp could cause more problems than it solves, due to strong signals from Mt. Wilson, but if you leave the antenna at an off-angle it might be doable. A high input pre-amp, such as the HDP269 probably has the best chance of success:

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=ANWHDP269&d=Winegard-HDP-269-SquareShooter-PreAmplifier-for-SquareShooterSS1000-%28HDP269%29&sku=615798396145&mc=03
My antenna looks more like this one than the one in your first link:

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...nnas&sku=HBU33

You mentioned RG-6 cabling. How much difference is there between RG-6 and older cabling?

You mentioned RG-6 cabling. How much difference is there between RG-6 and older cabling?

If your length is short there is very little difference but for a length more than 25 to 50 feet it can be a big difference. Use RG6 Quad Shield (RG6Q). RG11 is even better but is difficult to find and is clumsy. RG6Q can be found at Home Depot fairly cheaply.

Rick R

My antenna looks more like this one than the one in your first link:

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...nnas&sku=HBU33 ...

Just a note:

SolidSignal says the page for this link does not exist ...

Just a note:

SolidSignal says the page for this link does not exist ...
I meant to copy the second link in Falcon_77's post.

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=HBU33&d=AntennaCraft-33-Element-UHF--HighBand-VHF-Outdoor-HDTV-Antenna-%28HBU33%29&c=TV%20Antennas&sku=HBU33

My antenna looks more like this one than the one in your first link:
...
You mentioned RG-6 cabling. How much difference is there between RG-6 and older cabling?

I would be surprised to find a 25 year old antenna which is optimized for high band VHF and UHF. I'm wondering if the shape is similar to an all VHF antenna. Can you take a picture of your antenna and post it here?

As for the cabling, the difference may be more than the old cable has had water intrusion and/or corrosion. However, if it's the old "low-loss" coax or even RG-59, the benefits of RG-6 over 50' or so can be a difference maker. I use double-shield RG-6 with good results.

CM7777 should work even better, 27 miles away from Mt Wilson (and no other nearby towers).

Isn't the CM7777 a bit too much? Have you changed your overload calcs?

Without looking at the specific plot, the general signals appear to be in the -30 to -40dBm range, which is about 20dB more than I'd like to see with this amp. Of course, if the antenna is off angle to null it out, it might work. I think it's more of a risk than is needed here.

Hi, everyone! :)

I decided to give up FIOS tv (and all cable tv) and join the "off the air only" crowd about a month ago. I live in a 4th floor condo in Signal Hill with direct line-of-sight to Mt. Wilson.

Before the digital transition, I had been able to pull in all local stations with a simple pair of rabbit ears. However, since June, I was no longer able to pull in channels 11 or 13 with my indoor VHF / UHF antenna. Another high-end indoor antenna produced similar results.

I finally got up to the roof of my condo building yesterday (which is where our HOA wants us to place satellite dishes, etc.) I put up a Radio Shack VU-90 XR antenna that I bought on "clearance" for $40. Pointed it right at Mt. Wilson (I could see the towers), connected it to the same coax that I used to get Dish Network from a few years ago, and went back downstairs to the TV.

I found I could immediately get channels 11 and 13! Yay! But, mysteriously, I couldn't get channels 4, 5 or 28. Hrmm. Figuring I would solve that later, I connected a splitter to the line so I could use both my TV tuner cards on my PC to record in Media Center. And I immediately started to get channels 4, 5 and 28 but with some pixellation.

I don't know why I thought of it, but I decided "why not try an attenuator?" I attached one I had from FIOS since their signal was too hot (sorry, not sure of the level off hand), and I immediately got channels 4, 5 and 28 perfectly along with all other local stations.

So it appeared my problems with 4, 5 and 28 were from having too STRONG of a signal vs. too weak of a signal. Does that make sense to anyone??? Seems strange.

At any rate, Looking at the digital TV signal strength meter on Windows 7 Media Center, I now get 5 out of 5 bars of signal quality for every station in the LA DMA with the exception of KVCR which I can't seem to pick up at all (0 signal strength). *shrug* I also can't get channel 8.1 which is also listed in my guide, but then again I really could care less since it appears to be a Spanish language channel and I don't speak Spanish.

Given my location, I wonder if I'd be able to pick up any other stations from Ventura, Santa Barbara or even San Diego if I picked up another antenna and pointed it at the right direction. Maybe I'll have to play some. Of course, I'll then have to figure out how to properly combine the signals so there are no negative results, right?

At any rate, I'm now 100% off the air only and loving it. What I can't find on OTA, I'll find on Media Center through the Netflix On Demand plugin or Hulu Desktop. ;)

Robert

So it appeared my problems with 4, 5 and 28 were from having too STRONG of a signal vs. too weak of a signal. Does that make sense to anyone??? Seems strange.

I have the same problem at my apartment, with help from the ridiculously (and I do mean ridiculously) over-powered distribution amp my apartments installed on our building's antenna system. One of my older tuners has about 17dB attenuation between it and the wall, not counting the coax. Any less and I lose some channels.

KVCR's transmitter is not part of the Mt. Wilson antenna farm and your luck getting it depends on where you are and what's in the way.

KFLA-LD (8.1) is not Spanish language, but that should not be taken as an indication that you need it. And the further south you are, the more you'll have trouble with co-channel interference from San Diego.

Hi, everyone! :)

I decided to give up FIOS tv (and all cable tv) and join the "off the air only" crowd about a month ago. I live in a 4th floor condo in Signal Hill with direct line-of-sight to Mt. Wilson.

Before the digital transition, I had been able to pull in all local stations with a simple pair of rabbit ears. However, since June, I was no longer able to pull in channels 11 or 13 with my indoor VHF / UHF antenna. Another high-end indoor antenna produced similar results.

I finally got up to the roof of my condo building yesterday (which is where our HOA wants us to place satellite dishes, etc.) I put up a Radio Shack VU-90 XR antenna that I bought on "clearance" for $40. Pointed it right at Mt. Wilson (I could see the towers), connected it to the same coax that I used to get Dish Network from a few years ago, and went back downstairs to the TV.

I found I could immediately get channels 11 and 13! Yay! But, mysteriously, I couldn't get channels 4, 5 or 28. Hrmm. Figuring I would solve that later, I connected a splitter to the line so I could use both my TV tuner cards on my PC to record in Media Center. And I immediately started to get channels 4, 5 and 28 but with some pixellation.

I don't know why I thought of it, but I decided "why not try an attenuator?" I attached one I had from FIOS since their signal was too hot (sorry, not sure of the level off hand), and I immediately got channels 4, 5 and 28 perfectly along with all other local stations.

So it appeared my problems with 4, 5 and 28 were from having too STRONG of a signal vs. too weak of a signal. Does that make sense to anyone??? Seems strange.

At any rate, Looking at the digital TV signal strength meter on Windows 7 Media Center, I now get 5 out of 5 bars of signal quality for every station in the LA DMA with the exception of KVCR which I can't seem to pick up at all (0 signal strength). *shrug* I also can't get channel 8.1 which is also listed in my guide, but then again I really could care less since it appears to be a Spanish language channel and I don't speak Spanish.

Given my location, I wonder if I'd be able to pick up any other stations from Ventura, Santa Barbara or even San Diego if I picked up another antenna and pointed it at the right direction. Maybe I'll have to play some. Of course, I'll then have to figure out how to properly combine the signals so there are no negative results, right?

At any rate, I'm now 100% off the air only and loving it. What I can't find on OTA, I'll find on Media Center through the Netflix On Demand plugin or Hulu Desktop. ;)

Robert

KVCR should be strong from Signal Hill. Try removing the attenuator & turning your antenna a little East toward Riverside. Remember it's RF 26, which maps to channel 24. The LA stations should still come in.

KFLA, 8 is mostly golf & soccer when I scan past it in the evenings. I've watched some sailing, surfing & extreme sports on it occasionally.

Given my location, I wonder if I'd be able to pick up any other stations from Ventura, Santa Barbara or even San Diego if I picked up another antenna and pointed it at the right direction. Maybe I'll have to play some. Of course, I'll then have to figure out how to properly combine the signals so there are no negative results, right?
I wouldn't count on getting Santa Barbara or Ventura but San Diego is certainly doable especially if you are on the side of Signal Hill facing South. I have regularly pick up KSWB (Fox 5 San Diego) RF19 from my apartment in Long Beach with just a pair of indoor VHF dipoles. Since you have an aerial it should be a piece of cake once you position it toward SanD. Since the digital transition I can no longer get KFMB 8 (CBS) or KGTV 10 (ABC). They were frequent appearances in the analog days but you might have better luck. KUSI (Ind) on RF18 will probably be impossible to pull because of KSCI sitting on that frequency locally. Good luck and post your results if anything turns up.

New subchannel! Now, don't get too excited, but KFTR has added 46-2, a standard def version of 46-1.

More choices. More entertainment. TV is awesome.

New subchannel! Now, don't get too excited, but KFTR has added 46-2, a standard def version of 46-1.

More choices. More entertainment. TV is awesome.

46-1 always has great movies, problems is my Spanish isn't too good. Maybe 46-2 will be same channel in English!

KAZA now has a sub too. It has different programming, but I still see the Azteca logo on it. Edit: Well it had the logo a few minutes ago...

Also, most curiously, my DTVPal DVR reported a Fox-SD sub on KCOP/13. However, I don't see it now.

KAZA now has a sub too. It has different programming, but I still see the Azteca logo on it. Edit: Well it had the logo a few minutes ago...

Also, most curiously, my DTVPal DVR reported a Fox-SD sub on KCOP/13. However, I don't see it now.

Oddly, one of my TVs does get 13.2 and the other doesn't even after a rescan. So far just infomercials.

Can you get these areas from the Signal Hill area. Short answer believe the answer is yes with the right antenna. Try searching for a do it yourself: Gray-Hoverman antenna with NEROD. With this antenna and a good preamp, good cable, then see what happens. Do it yourself, reduce the risk of buying the wrong antenna. Saw a report that this antenna was used out to 140 miles, but maybe being used peak to peak and long range line of sight. Try La Jolla on a tvfool search and LA Stations show up line of sight.

Know there is someone up in Santa Barbara watching San Diego stations, and have watched them here in Ventura on good days and the right conditions. This was during analog, have not yet tried for digital yet.

Great job on what your doing so far. Welcome to the club.

KTTV/KCOP Power Increases...

I have been told that the new target date for the power increases of 11 & 13 is May.

KTTV/KCOP Power Increases...

I have been told that the new target date for the power increases of 11 & 13 is May.

i got a call today about this from kttv

Dumb follow-up question for my antenna installation. I have an antenna on the roof of my condo building that is now plugged into coax that was going to my Dish Network dish (which then goes into my condo). Dumb question -- where should I put the ground wire on the antenna itself? I understand you normally put a ground on the mast? In this case, I attached the antenna to the mast / small tower for the Dish Network dish (which, unfortunately, was never grounded by Dish when they installed it). This way I didn't need to attach anything else to the roof of the condo building.

I do have a ground on the roof that all the other dishes are plugged into -- so I just need to know where physically on the antenna to put the ground wire.

Thanks!

I do have a ground on the roof that all the other dishes are plugged into -- so I just need to know where physically on the antenna to put the ground wire.

The bottom of the mast would be best, although, if the truth were known, very few in California (including mine) are grounded. The main reason is for lightning strikes and those are almost unknown here.

has anyone been receiving intermittent signal strength with regard to KCET 28? most of the time my signal shows 80% but sometimes drops to 50-60%...all my other channels are fine and strong signal. im in Irvine (OC)

New subchannel! Now, don't get too excited, but KFTR has added 46-2, a standard def version of 46-1.

More choices. More entertainment. TV is awesome.

Humm ...

Usually when a station opens up an SD sub-channel version of their main HD one it is for supplying the CATV head ends or DBS satellite providers with a dedicated SD feed so the station may selectively control picture aspect ratio.

Typically center-cut to 4:3 on the SD sub-channel when up-converted SD programs are shown on the main 16:9 HD sub-channel. Or as 16:9 letterbox on the SD sub-channel when broadcasting native HD material on the HD sub-channel.

This is preferable sometimes to having the cable or satellite distributer simply deriving a 4:3 SD signal from the station's single HD one by down-rez and then usually always center-cutting it.

But I'll tell you its hard to say if thats the case here with KFTR since like the other Spanish stations broadcasting in HD format, I can't ever catch them showing any native HD material to see how they're treating the aspect ratio on the SD channel.

has anyone been receiving intermittent signal strength with regard to KCET 28? most of the time my signal shows 80% but sometimes drops to 50-60%...all my other channels are fine and strong signal. im in Irvine (OC)

You're probably experiencing co-channel interference from XHJK-DT, Tijuana.

You're probably experiencing co-channel interference from XHJK-DT, Tijuana.
is that a new channel? or are they running some tests?

is that a new channel? or are they running some tests?

XHJK D28 has been around for years. It's the Azteca 13 Mexican affiliate. Very good channel with lots of HD novelas and soccer, which can be easily pickup in most of San Diego. Before the digital transition KCET-DT was transmitting on channel 59, but after the transition had to return to channel 28 and its current co-channel issues.

https://licensing.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101324232&formid=340&fac_num=13058

https://licensing.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101341048&formid=911&fac_num=13058

XHJK D28 has been around for years. It's the Azteca 13 Mexican affiliate. Very good channel with lots of HD novelas and soccer, which can be easily pickup in most of San Diego. Before the digital transition KCET-DT was transmitting on channel 59, but after the transition had to return to channel 28 and its current co-channel issues.

https://licensing.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101324232&formid=340&fac_num=13058

https://licensing.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101341048&formid=911&fac_num=13058
interesting and thanks, i looked at the applications, seems the last one was in november, any idea how to find out if it has been approved?

also, why is the inteference intermitent? like today my signal reads >90%!

also, why is the inteference intermitent? like today my signal reads >90%!

San Diego/TJ reception usually relies on some degree of tropospheric ducting, which is quite variable. Here is a site with tropo forecasts:

http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo_wam.html

San Diego/TJ reception usually relies on some degree of tropospheric ducting, which is quite variable. Here is a site with tropo forecasts:

http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo_wam.html
ah yes thanks i saw the past week's map and noted that on the days that i was getting inteference the tijuana area was showing blue/green which was fair/moderate

XHJK D28 has been around for years. It's the Azteca 13 Mexican affiliate. Very good channel with lots of HD novelas and soccer, which can be easily pickup in most of San Diego. Before the digital transition KCET-DT was transmitting on channel 59, but after the transition had to return to channel 28 and its current co-channel issues.

https://licensing.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101324232&formid=340&fac_num=13058

https://licensing.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101341048&formid=911&fac_num=13058

This could explain why I was experiencing some difficulties receiving a solid signal from KCET during the summer, even after the June 12 transition. (I did experience even more difficlty before the transition when it was on ch 59, however). Lately, on the other hand, KCET has been very stable. During the summer, the San Diego/Tijuana stations are often quite strong here, but when the skip goes away, these stations all "disappear".

I think that a power increase from 155 to 220 kW will not make much of an improvement. Perhaps KCET should seriously consider moving to another channel where there will be less interference, and it will be able to run more power.

Has KVMD 31.1 increased its power recently? I never used to be able to receive it here, but now I am getting it, and with a fairly strong signal (about 65%), too.

The bottom of the mast would be best, although, if the truth were known, very few in California (including mine) are grounded. The main reason is for lightning strikes and those are almost unknown here.
I can't remember a year when we DIDN'T have a nearby electrical storm....

Grounding the mast (or Sat Dish) is an electrical code REQUIREMENT, which
can be used by your insurance company to deny coverage (just like denial-care)....

Grounding the mast provides minimal protection against a direct lightning hit,
the voltage and current levels are likely to fry whatever is attached...and then some...

Grounding lowers the chance of YOUR mast being hit by draining off the
static electricity buildup due to WIND/DUST (esp. Santa Ana's) brushing up
against your antenna...same way you can rub a balloon or shuffle across a
carpet to build up static electricity....the ZAPP factor isn't kind to electronics....

More info:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17041957
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8591196
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17042274

Has KVMD 31.1 increased its power recently? I never used to be able to receive it here, but now I am getting it, and with a fairly strong signal (about 65%), too.

Just curious;

How do you receive it so well around RF (and virtual) co-channel KSMV-LD which despite its low power license is still putting out a respectable signal level from Mt. Wilson here where I am in South L.A.?

How do you receive it so well around RF (and virtual) co-channel KSMV-LD which despite its low power license is still putting out a respectable signal level from Mt. Wilson here where I am in South L.A.?

I believe that HarrisonS is speaking of KSMV-LP, which carries KVMD on 31.1 and various subs. It may as well be a translator for KVMD's main facility.

I can receive it easily, but haven't noticed a significant change recently. It's about 15dB weaker than 24 on the analyzer.

There does not seem to be any power increase for KSMV-LP/KVMD in my eyes. Station is barely watchable, and that is when the weather conditions are right. Are you guys using an outdoor or indoor antenna for the station?

Seems like this channel is giving me the most problems as even KVCR comes in here more often than does KSMV-LP/KVMD 31.1.

There does not seem to be any power increase for KSMV-LP/KVMD in my eyes. Station is barely watchable, and that is when the weather conditions are right. Are you guys using an outdoor or indoor antenna for the station?

Seems like this channel is giving me the most problems as even KVCR comes in here more often than does KSMV-LP/KVMD 31.1.

Well I'm using an outdoor antenna, the Winegard HD7697P aimed at Mt. Wilson which is about 20 mi. away to the NE;

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=HD7697P&d=Winegard-High-Definition-VHFUHF-HD769-Series-TV-Antenna-(HD7697P)&c=TV%20Antennas&sku=615798398484

And KSMV-LD comes in pretty well here at the moment. In fact all the Mt. Wilson DTV signals are well received here with such a large directional array pointed squarely at it with one exception.

KNLA-LD ch. 20 (RF ch. 50) which is a nightmare trying to pickup. Even my best DTV receivers can barely hold signal lock on it and I have to use DirecTV's local channel carriage of their main sub-channel 20-1 Spanish Independent KBBC.

Are there any new pictures of the changes to Mount Wilson, which antennas, that will show what's coming up this year in terms of power increases, antenna changes. Any pictures of Mount Wilson with the changes?

There does not seem to be any power increase for KSMV-LP/KVMD in my eyes. Station is barely watchable, and that is when the weather conditions are right. Are you guys using an outdoor or indoor antenna for the station?

I'm using the classic CM4228 for UHF (attic mounted). KSMV-LP is reliable enough with it, though it is the weakest station I can successfully receive.

KNLA-LD, however, is a mess. Sometimes I can receive it, but it's usually dropping pixels left and right when I do. They really need more than 400W, being sandwiched between 2 full power stations. They have a pending application for 12kW, which should be ok, when built.

Are there any new pictures of the changes to Mount Wilson, which antennas, that will show what's coming up this year in terms of power increases, antenna changes. Any pictures of Mount Wilson with the changes?

The main benefit of the Mt. Wilson site also makes it rather difficult to photograph up close. One of these days I'd like to make a road trip up there, but certainly not in the winter.

As for the other site, I'm not even sure if it's possible (for the public) to get to Mt. Harvard.

The only pictures I have are from great distance or are old. However, this may be a good time to link the Fybush pictures again. Hopefully, he will re-visit the site in the future.

http://www.fybush.com/sites/2005/site-051216.html
http://www.fybush.com/sites/2005/site-051223.html

KFLA's 8-5 has returned, running (or more accurately trying to run) a commercial break over and over and over. It appears their automation is malfunctioning. Audio this time is properly formatted Dolby Digital, God bless 'em.

The tuner in my computer is detecting an unmapped 6th stream that appears to have the same content as 8-5, but my signal right now is too intermittent to determine much about that.

Anyway, I'm now getting 90 "real" subchannels plus KFLA's unmapped whatever-it-is and 5 analog LPs. (And I still remember getting a grand total of 11 channels on cable! And we LIKED it!) No KVCR, which is to be expected for this location, and no KLAU-LP (analog 45), as they have been off the air for over a week.

One other thing I noticed that may be of marginal interest (and if it is, you are way too geeky). I noticed that 20-3 is sending out true single-channel mono audio, not the typical stereo signal with the same audio on both channels. I wonder why the 9-stream beasties don't do that? Every little bit helps (pun intended).

KFLA's 8-5 has returned, running (or more accurately trying to run) a commercial break over and over and over.

Titan TV says 8-5 is "Your Weather Network". I tuned it in a few times this evening, but only saw the non ending commercials.

wait you are in tustin and can get kfla -8? im in irvine and no way i can get it, tv fool says i have a noise margin of 13.8 db and an attenuation of -77.7 db! what antenna are you using?

wait you are in tustin and can get kfla -8? im in irvine and no way i can get it, tv fool says i have a noise margin of 13.8 db and an attenuation of -77.7 db! what antenna are you using?

Antenna is on the roof of this 2-story apartment, aimed straight at Mt. Wilson. Dunno what model or brand, other than it's 2-69.

KFLA is intermittent, although better during the winter when there's not so much San Diego to contend with, and is more reliable on some receivers than others. TV Fool sez I have 12.3/-78.6. :D

Just curious;

How do you receive it so well around RF (and virtual) co-channel KSMV-LD which despite its low power license is still putting out a respectable signal level from Mt. Wilson here where I am in South L.A.?


I am using two different roof-mounted antennas for UHF, each connected to a different receiver (the reason for this is a long story). One antenna is a Winegard PR-4400 and the other is a very old, Radio Shack UHF yagi (model # unknown).

I am continuing to receive a solid signal from KSMV-LP/KVMD 31.1 on both antennas. This morning the signal strength was running 70%, which is quite strong. If there was no power increase, then they must have chenged their antenna radiation pattern drastically, or else it is just a weather-related "fluke". In the latter case, time will soon tell. In any case the whole thing seems strange, because, until a few days ago, I never used to be able to pick up this station at all!

If there was no power increase, then they must have chenged their antenna radiation pattern drastically, or else it is just a weather-related "fluke". In the latter case, time will soon tell. In any case the whole thing seems strange, because, until a few days ago, I never used to be able to pick up this station at all!

I'm no transmitter engineer, but there's more to it than just power level. I understand it takes a bit of time to "dial in" a transmitter for maximum efficiency. So your improved reception could be due to factors that have nothing to do with radiation pattern or power level.

I'm no transmitter engineer, but there's more to it than just power level. I understand it takes a bit of time to "dial in" a transmitter for maximum efficiency. So your improved reception could be due to factors that have nothing to do with radiation pattern or power level.


Perhaps. But it is hard to believe that they would have operated for such a long time at such enormously sub-optimal settings. Ahd if that were the case, then everyone would have seen a big jump in signal strength. Also, if it involved a tuning of the transmitter's output stage to better match the antenna, the previous operation a radio transmitter that far out of tune would probably have "fried" the output stage in a matter of minutes!

I am using two different roof-mounted antennas for UHF, each connected to a different receiver (the reason for this is a long story). One antenna is a Winegard PR-4400 and the other is a very old, Radio Shack UHF yagi (model # unknown).

I am continuing to receive a solid signal from KSMV-LP/KVMD 31.1 on both antennas. This morning the signal strength was running 70%, which is quite strong. If there was no power increase, then they must have chenged their antenna radiation pattern drastically, or else it is just a weather-related "fluke". In the latter case, time will soon tell. In any case the whole thing seems strange, because, until a few days ago, I never used to be able to pick up this station at all!

Oh OK;

It was as Falcon_77 suggested then;

You were referring to KSMV-LD/KVMD 31.1 to begin with, whereas I thought you meant you were somehow now receiving KVMD's original signal from Twenty-nine Palms around or bypassing KSMV-LD much more dominate signal from Mt. Wilson ... which uses the same virtual and actual sub-channels. :)

Oh OK;

It was as Falcon_77 suggested then;

You were referring to KSMV-LD/KVMD 31.1 to begin with, whereas I thought you meant you were somehow now receiving KVMD's original signal from Twenty-nine Palms around or bypassing KSMV-LD much more dominate signal from Mt. Wilson ... which uses the same virtual and actual sub-channels. :)


Right. I didn't realize at the time that KSMV-LP was relaying KVMD. It will probably be a real mess this summer when the long skip brings XETV 6.1 in. It also transmits on ch 23 and was often quite strong here last summer. Back then there was no interference from KVMD/KSMV-LP. :)

wait you are in tustin and can get kfla -8? im in irvine and no way i can get it, tv fool says i have a noise margin of 13.8 db and an attenuation of -77.7 db! what antenna are you using?

I use to live in University Town Center, across from UCI. I had an antenna similar to the VU-90XR in my attic and could not receive KFLA. I'm now in Turtle Rock with a CM 4228 in my utility closet and can receive KFLA most of the time.

Two of my sisters live accross the street from each other in Woodbridge. They both have antennas similar to the VU-90XR, sitting in the rafters of their garages and they can receive KFLA as well.

Perhaps. But it is hard to believe that they would have operated for such a long time at such enormously sub-optimal settings. Ahd if that were the case, then everyone would have seen a big jump in signal strength. Also, if it involved a tuning of the transmitter's output stage to better match the antenna, the previous operation a radio transmitter that far out of tune would probably have "fried" the output stage in a matter of minutes!

(1) It was only for a week or two.

(2) I don't know if they were "enormously" suboptimal ... just "sufficiently" suboptimal.

(3) IIRC, everyone DID see a big jump in signal strength, or at least decodability.

And with that I will bow out and leave it to qualified service personnel, since I am really straddling the "knowing what the heck I'm talking about" line here.

The tuner in my computer is detecting an unmapped 6th stream that appears to have the same content as 8-5, but my signal right now is too intermittent to determine much about that.

Curiosity: What operating system and what type of tuner?

Perhaps. But it is hard to believe that they would have operated for such a long time at such enormously sub-optimal settings. Ahd if that were the case, then everyone would have seen a big jump in signal strength. Also, if it involved a tuning of the transmitter's output stage to better match the antenna, the previous operation a radio transmitter that far out of tune would probably have "fried" the output stage in a matter of minutes!

Not necessarily. If they got either a new exciter that does auto-correction for SNR, or got better test gear that lets them improve the SNR, then that could be a difference. I know one station that is running on exciters dating to 2002 and the test gear to calibrate it is the same age, their SNR is around 29 dB rather than the 36 dB or so that some of the other stations in the area have. The test gear has a two-second delay in giving SNR numbers, so trying to hand-calibrate the signal is a frustrating process that is very difficult and thus will often settle for a lower SNR number than the gear is capable of providing.

Low SNR won't damage gear, but can make reception more difficult.

- Trip

falcon_77, looking at your DTV spreadsheet, do you know when/how the KCET app. to increase to 220kw will be approved?

also a general question to all, KABC 7 (and kcal 9) has one of the lowest transmission power at 25kw, yet i receive it as one of my best channels, 40 miles away here in irvine. is this because its a VHF channel, or they arent any other nearby channels with co-inteference or something else?

Curiosity: What operating system and what type of tuner?

Mac, Elgato EyeTV Hybrid.

Darn, I was hoping maybe you could catch me TSReader data on KFLA-LD. ;) Ah well... :)

- Trip

Darn, I was hoping maybe you could catch me TSReader data on KFLA-LD. ;) Ah well... :)

- Trip

I suspected that was your dastardly scheme. Sorry.

I'm probably not getting a solid enough signal to get accurate bitrates and such anyway. The only receiver that's picking up KFLA more-or-less glitch-free these days is the Sansonic CECB.

I suspected that was your dastardly scheme. Sorry.

Hehe, am I that transparent? :p

I'm probably not getting a solid enough signal to get accurate bitrates and such anyway. The only receiver that's picking up KFLA more-or-less glitch-free these days is the Sansonic CECB.

No sweat. Just knowing what they're doing as far as programming is good info. :)

- Trip

Darn, I was hoping maybe you could catch me TSReader data on KFLA-LD. ;) Ah well... :)

- Trip

I would, but the ~400mW in my direction isn't enough to get a lock and I don't feel like taking a full sized upper VHF antenna on a road trip. :D

falcon_77, looking at your DTV spreadsheet, do you know when/how the KCET app. to increase to 220kw will be approved?

also a general question to all, KABC 7 (and kcal 9) has one of the lowest transmission power at 25kw, yet i receive it as one of my best channels, 40 miles away here in irvine. is this because its a VHF channel, or they arent any other nearby channels with co-inteference or something else?

7 is my weakest upper VHF channel. I think it's an awful place to be. It's the first I'd boot to UHF if I could. I know others have had luck with it, however. KCAL/9 is the easiest V for me to receive. Note that VHF and UHF powers are quite different. Ideally, 25kW on VHF (7-13) could be the equivalent of something like 250kW on UHF, but it doesn't always turn out that way.

As for KCET, they have a granted STA for 220kW, so they may already be at that power level. I haven't noticed a difference, but I didn't have an analyzer to check the signal levels a few months ago (vs. now).

(1) It was only for a week or two.

(2) I don't know if they were "enormously" suboptimal ... just "sufficiently" suboptimal.

(3) IIRC, everyone DID see a big jump in signal strength, or at least decodability.

And with that I will bow out and leave it to qualified service personnel, since I am really straddling the "knowing what the heck I'm talking about" line here.
thanks to you guys for the heads up, i have rescanned and discovered i can receive kvmd 31 today! the last time i checked (two weeks ago) i didnt get a lock. so they must have done something to improve their signal.

Noticed Falcon's post about equivalency. Out here on the fringe getting 700-1000 KW UHF Stations with pretty much reliable reception. So, if 250 KW UHF is equivalent to 25 KW VHF then should be able to receive at 100 KW VHF. Below 100 would then be recievable, but less reliable.

Having like an equivalency table would be huge. Of course, you'd have to put a disclaimer on it.

KTTV has applied to increase from 15 kW to 30 kW on their current antenna until the antenna for the 115 kW CP can be installed.

- Trip

KTTV has applied to increase from 15 kW to 30 kW on their current antenna until the antenna for the 115 kW CP can be installed.

- Trip

Well, it's about time they did something. It will be interesting to study the effect of an additional 3dB.

http://licensing.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1352726&Service=DS&Form_id=911&Facility_id=22208

I'm glad to see this interim solution, especially if the May date for the maximized facility slips again.

Low SNR won't damage gear, but can make reception more difficult.

- Trip

But running high power into a badly detuned output stage can!

Well, it's about time they did something. It will be interesting to study the effect of an additional 3dB.

http://licensing.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1352726&Service=DS&Form_id=911&Facility_id=22208

I'm glad to see this interim solution, especially if the May date for the maximized facility slips again.
hmm i recall an OC register article in SEP 09 saying they were planning for the temp increase to 30kw 'anytime now'! does things move this slowly in the broadcast business?

KCOP has Fox/11 subbed again. See attached cap.

But running high power into a badly detuned output stage can!

There is a transmission line device called an Isolator that protects the transmitter output stage from a badly detuned antenna. The Isolator absorbs any reflected power. The transmitter is happy but the actual transmitted or radiated power will be lower then expected.

KCOP has Fox/11 subbed again. See attached cap.

When I enter 13-2 into my Zenith CECB it maps over to 11-2. Per Falcon's screen shot it shows 13-2 KCOP at the bottom of the screen, but is playing the same show as 11-1, with a slight delay.

Titan TV says 8-5 is "Your Weather Network". I tuned it in a few times this evening, but only saw the non ending commercials.

KFLA sub channel 8-5 is now showing weather. Graphics look similar to the weather channel. My tv lists the channel as My Wx, Titans shows it as YWXN.

When I enter 13-2 into my Zenith CECB it maps over to 11-2. Per Falcon's screen shot it shows 13-2 KCOP at the bottom of the screen, but is playing the same show as 11-1, with a slight delay.

Yep ... it's coming from 13, but it's mapped as 11-2. And aaargggh!! It's a center-cut in SD stretch-o-vision.

Video bitrate between 4 and 4.5 Mbps.

KFLA sub channel 8-5 is now showing weather. Graphics look similar to the weather channel. My tv lists the channel as My Wx, Titans shows it as YWXN.

Hmmm ... true stereo audio. Automation still not quite right ... they've been showing the same radar maps over and for several minutes now, and keep restarting the same stupid music. But if they can get it working right, KFLA will finally have a reason to exist besides warmed over British soccer matches.

The unmapped 6th stream is still there, and still duplicating 8-5.

Video bitrate on both seems to be in the 2 to 3 Mbps range, but don't quote me on that, cause the EyeTV is still having trouble keeping a lock on it.

Still no KLAU-LP. Have they (sniff) finally thrown in the towel? :(

The unmapped 6th stream is still there, and still duplicating 8-5.
:(

My Samsung TV is showing it as subchannel 8-817. As you said, it is a duplicate of 8-5.

Yep ... it's coming from 13, but it's mapped as 11-2. And aaargggh!! It's a center-cut in SD stretch-o-vision.

Video bitrate between 4 and 4.5 Mbps. ...

Unless this is some sort of early mixup, what is this KTTV's way of opening additional sub-channels while not actually sacrificing any of their main bandwidth? ;)

That is to say using underutilized bandwidth from their O & O sister station KCOP-13 by opening a second sub-channel on KCOP RF 13.4 (according to Trip's rabbitears.info), yet setting the PSIP data to map it to virtual (or display) sub-channel 11-2?

It's also a 16:9 SD sub-channel, but unfortunately the picture is in dumb stretch-o-vision for native 4:3 material at the moment and even when KTTV's main 11.1 sub-channel is broadcasting native 16:9 HD programs, KCOP still center-cuts it to 4:3 then stretches it back to 16:9, ridiculous. :rolleyes:

One workaround though, like with KBEH's former stretch-o-vision the stretch appears to be linear and can therefore be remedied by squeezing the image back to 4:3, but still stupid to have to do this all the way around if this broadcast continues this way for whatever KTTV intends for it.

Well ... unless this new 11.2/from 13 sub-channel is switching back and forth on aspect ratios, its switched from 16:9 SD to 4:3 SD now ...

At my location, KCOP/13 is a lot stronger than KTTV/11. I wonder if KTTV's temporary solution to complaints it is hard to receive is to put the same programming on 13.2 with mapping to 11.2 so that more folks can receive Fox's programming.

http://www.silverace.com/smartpig/issue7.html

Here in LA/OC in the 92683 zip code area, I found that this sub-$10 coat hanger project works great!!! I should have started with this vs. buying even those well-known Radio Shack single bow-tie antennas!

I was even ready to spend some $$ on a 2-bay or 4-bay Channel Master for my portable USB HDTV tuner, but then thought I'd try this out first. Awesome reception for UHF for me, but I still need to use rabbit ears for ch 9,11,13.

can any of you guys get any reception from KBEH ch. 63 lately?
The signal seemed to have been completely lost in my area (zip code 90004)
Last week, KBEH was working okay and now KBEH is nothing at all. WTH/WTF is going on with KBEH?

I know for sure KFLA does not work well in my zip code [90004]. It definitely requires an antenna stored in an attic or an outdoor antenna to get decent reception. the indoor rabbit ears tv antenna just won't cut the mustard and won't pick up KFLA's reception at all. anyways, I don't seem to need KFLA at all.

KVMD 31 is simulcasted on KSMV-LP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KVMD); that's why many LA residents are getting KVMD in the LA area and not just in the Inland Empire area.

can any of you guys get any reception from KBEH ch. 63 lately?

Still there as of last night - at least from the Mt. Wilson booster transmitter.

ok, narkspud. anybody else receiving or NOT receiving KBEH on their antenna based TV systems tonight? I'm still not getting KBEH right now - signal strength is at 0%

I wasn't getting 63 earlier, but it appears back now.

Anyone have a lightning strike on their antenna? i was sitting around the house during the storm and heard a fizzle, then a second fizzle. With the second fizzle I saw a lightning bolt directed at my rooftop antenna. I was so glad I had grounded my self mounted antenna. No damage. One TV was on at the time.

Managed to get better reception on 11.1 after the storm. Think I need a better preamp on the VHF side. Currently using CM 7778.

I wasn't getting 63 earlier, but it appears back now.

same here, SD73. it was mysteriously gone a while ago but I'm receiving KBEH now with 90%+ reception. must have been a thick rain cloud blocking the signal to my TV. the rain in my area has stopped.

Anyone have a lightning strike on their antenna? i was sitting around the house during the storm and heard a fizzle, then a second fizzle. With the second fizzle I saw a lightning bolt directed at my rooftop antenna. I was so glad I had grounded my self mounted antenna. No damage. One TV was on at the time.

Managed to get better reception on 11.1 after the storm. Think I need a better preamp on the VHF side. Currently using CM 7778.

wow, a lightning strike on an outdoor tv antenna. ouch. hasn't happened at all with my indoor tv antennas (hehe). btw, coffeebreak, are u receiving any signal from KBEH ch. 63 lately?

I get close to 70% reception on KTTV ch. 11.1 with the rabbit ears tv antenna since both the TV and antenna are sitting right by my bedroom window.

If you use tvfool for Barstow there are a whole lot of new analog stations. Do not quite understand what is going on. 15-20 didn't count them out. All pretty much low power. If someone knows what's going on in a larger perspective. Maybe a transition to mobile tv on the I-15 towards Las Vegas? Switch them all over to digital later on in time? Zip Code: 92310. Barstow, CA.

TVFool for 92310 is for a location on a ridge considerably north of Barstow.
TVFool for Barstow itself sez all but one of the Analogs is 25, 50 or 100 miles away.

If you are seeing a "change" it might be due to a bunch of Low Power Analog applications
the FCC finally got around to approving....which are now being reflected in TVFool.

Thanks Holl_ands for the help...

erpster190

i have been getting 63 and the subchannels although 63.3 and .4 are black

Looks like KNLA-LD (20) is off the air. So is KLAU-LP (analog 45), but that ain't news. They were off for several weeks, and then on for about 2 days starting Friday night. Why do they bother?

BTW .. I understand access to Mt. Wilson is not being permitted for the duration of the storms, although there are a few engineers camped out up there.

Last night, without doing anything, I got reception of channel 11-2. 11-1 was still MIA but 11-2 was fine.

I forgot to check this morning to see if it was still there. I have been without any reception of any channel 11 for about a year.

Last night, without doing anything, I got reception of channel 11-2. 11-1 was still MIA but 11-2 was fine.

I forgot to check this morning to see if it was still there. I have been without any reception of any channel 11 for about a year.

11-2 is actually a subchannel of 13, so if you're getting 13-1, you'll also get 11-2.

Gotta love that virtual channel mapping! :rolleyes:

On Ion KPXN San Bernadino going off the air locally for over the air viewing. Still have TBN. Not an ION Network, wonder if finances led to the decision.

KTBN/33 and KLCS/41 both appear to be off the air right now. Storm-related problems, perhaps. I can't see a trace of a signal on the analyzer and am getting no signal messages on the TV.

Edit: I'm also getting nothing from KCET/28.

Same here. KCET, KTBN, KLCS all completely gone. KCOP even weaker than usual.

-Paul

Strange. I see KCET, KTBN, and KLCS on cable. With an antenna, only KTBN is missing. With this rainy weather, KVMD 31.1 has never come in stronger as my CECB shows a signal strength of 66%. Usually, there is no signal or at most 3% during the few times the channel does appear.

kcet and klcs back on for me in OC. ION,TBN is gone.

while on that subject, i nver watch ION, it seems to be only reruns of ghost whisperer/criminal minds and the feed has lots of pixelation due to 1080i/30

Lot of ch down here in los angeles county tbn all down ion all down kcet all down koce down also .

Hopefully things will get better when the road to Mount Wilson opens up to local traffic and the skiers.

Lot of ch down here in los angeles county tbn all down ion all down kcet all down koce down also .

I can see strong/normal signals on KPXN/38 and KOCE/48 with the analyzer, but nothing is decoding.

28, 33 & 41 are still flatline.

Nothing on the websites that I can find and I can't get anyone on the phone yet (still after hours).

I wonder if the power is off up there. Edison's main high-voltage power line was taken out by the station fire and they've all been relying on the backup. If it goes out (and they were expecting it to), stations with no generator or insufficient fuel are SOL.

In addition to the trouble described by Falcon_77, I'm still missing KLAU-LP (analog 45) and KNLA-LD (20), although the latter might just be due to rain fade. The analog LPs on 57 and 67 were out for a while last night, but have returned to entertain millions. I mean dozens.

In a bizarre and frightening reversal which might be a sign of the apocalypse, KFLA-LD (8) is still on, although 8-3 is blank, 8-5 is audio only and 8-1 is just showing the DirectTV "No signal" indicator.

Come to think of it, that's pretty much par for the course, isn't it.

I would speculate that the power outage for broadcasters is on Mt. Harvard and not Mt. Wilson that began on the evening of Jan-21st. Some facilities have the bucks for generators that start automatically, others have them, but need human intervention.

I would speculate that the power outage for broadcasters is on Mt. Harvard and not Mt. Wilson that began on the evening of Jan-21st. Some facilities have the bucks for generators that start automatically, others have them, but need human intervention.

It seems that most of the affected stations, with the exception of KPXN and KOCE, are instead on the eastern portion of Mt. Wilson, and so it seems likely that the power outage was there. So are KTTV and KCOP, but they managed to stay on the air, and they came in solid here even during the rain storm, unlike some of the UHF stations.

It is the east Mt. Wilson UHF stations that normally give the most trouble, and so when they all went down, I thought at first that it might have just been poor recption due to the rain.

Anyway, I see that only KPXN is still down, now.

I wonder if the power is off up there. Edison's main high-voltage power line was taken out by the station fire and they've all been relying on the backup. If it goes out (and they were expecting it to), stations with no generator or insufficient fuel are SOL. ...

Actually the 33 kV line taken out by the Station Fire last year was the back-up line to Mt. Wilson, the main line is a 16 KV one which survived the fire and is the one still in use. Beyond that however local facility backup generators would be needed until the backup 33 kV supply line is rebuilt.

From the CGC communicator 11-16-09:

BACKUP POWER LINE REPAIR - SECOND HALF OF 2010 AT EARLIEST

According to Steven Conroy, Manager of Media Relations for
Southern California Edison (SCE):
SCE's assessment of the Station Fire's damage to the
"Broadcast 33 kV line" providing backup utility power to
Mts. Harvard and Wilson is complete. The conclusion: The
line "pretty much has to be completely rebuilt."
There are a number of things that must be done before
work can get underway: Obtaining Forest Service permits,
resolving environmental issues (e.g. animal habitat) and
securing access to critical areas.
Restoration of service is not expected before the
second half of 2010 at the earliest.
[CGC telcon with Steven Conroy November 12, 2009]
http://www.bext.com/_CGC/2009/cgc961.htm.

Additional info. from CGCC 12-21-09:

RECONSTRUCTION OF THE MT. WILSON BACKUP POWER FEED

Southern California Edison (SCE) has announced its plan
to rebuild the backup power feed to Mt. Wilson -- the feed that
was destroyed by the Station Fire. SCE will use the same route
as before but employ lightweight steel poles that are somewhat
taller than the old wooden poles. Some 234 poles will be required
in all with 64 set from the ground and the rest by helicopter.
The target completion date is "2010" but potential delays could
occur particularly from the Forest Service which must review and
approve of the reconstruction plan.
News source: SCE pps slide show dated December 16, 2009.

Deserve an Emmy on the broadcast engineering side of the house, and on the news side of the house if they kept the public informed during these storms. This is the Broadcast Olympics version to see what these stations are made of.

Was weak last night at 8:00PM but fiddling my indoor, amplified antenna got it to come in. By 10:00PM could not get it at all, and still cannot get it through noon today. Bummer.

(I'm in the shadow of one tall building, with multipath from others, but have been doing OK for months, until now)

while on that subject, i nver watch ION, it seems to be only reruns of ghost whisperer/criminal minds and the feed has lots of pixelation due to 1080i/30

I was watching ghost whisperer last night when the show went blank. This is the only show I watch on ION and have been noticing this pixelation for some time. I thought it was some kind of interference, as the signal strength remains strong. For a non techie like me, can you clarify what causes this?

Was weak last night at 8:00PM but fiddling my indoor, amplified antenna got it to come in. By 10:00PM could not get it at all, and still cannot get it through noon today. Bummer.

(I'm in the shadow of one tall building, with multipath from others, but have been doing OK for months, until now)

Just out of curiosity.

In the meantime can you receive their new SD feed on 11-2 which is actually coming from channel 13?

I was watching ghost whisperer last night when the show went blank. This is the only show I watch on ION and have been noticing this pixelation for some time. I thought it was some kind of interference, as the signal strength remains strong. For a non techie like me, can you clarify what causes this?

i may be wrong, but on CBS and NBC, they broadcast in 1080i/60 frames per sec while ION has half that frame rate. i notice the pixelation a lot when the scenes pan or move, might be due to this lack of frames results in glitchy scene transitions....not sure need someone better informed on this.

i may be wrong, but on CBS and NBC, they broadcast in 1080i/60 frames per sec while ION has half that frame rate. i notice the pixelation a lot when the scenes pan or move, might be due to this lack of frames results in glitchy scene transitions....not sure need someone better informed on this.

The "60" in 1080i/60 refers to 60 (interlaced) fields per second which is equivalent to 30 frames per second.

Also KPXN/ION-30 OTA just came back up, and its actually broadcasting in 720P format.

Just out of curiosity.

In the meantime can you receive their new SD feed on 11-2 which is actually coming from channel 13?

I dunno, have to rescan. And my Sony tv still reports 13 as 13.3!

Right now, 11.1 is back, but weak. 13.3 (!?) still reports "no signal". Keying in 11.2 gets no results, but I guess that's expected until I rescan.

I dunno, have to rescan. And my Sony tv still reports 13 as 13.3!

Right now, 11.1 is back, but weak. 13.3 (!?) still reports "no signal". Keying in 11.2 gets no results, but I guess that's expected until I rescan.

Try keying in 13-2. It should map over to 11-2.

You have a better shot at receiving 11.1 now. KTTV has received a special temporary authorization from the FCC to roughly double power to 30kw and has done so as of this afternoon. KTTV has a construction permit for substantially higher power, but meanwhile see if this boost helps you out. Sadly, the build-out to even higher power (roughly 4 times the current doubled power) will take several months to accomplish. Meanwhile, KTTV is doing everything it can to improve your ability to receive it OTA, including carrying a KTTV subchannel on KCOP.

Thanks for your patience.

dtv4u

Try keying in 13-2. It should map over to 11-2.

You have a better shot at receiving 11.1 now. KTTV has received a special temporary authorization from the FCC to roughly double power to 30kw and has done so as of this afternoon. KTTV has a construction permit for substantially higher power, but meanwhile see if this boost helps you out. Sadly, the build-out to even higher power (roughly 4 times the current doubled power) will take several months to accomplish. Meanwhile, KTTV is doing everything it can to improve your ability to receive it OTA, including carrying a KTTV subchannel on KCOP.

Thanks for your patience.

dtv4u
are you sure? i dont see much difference in my signal although it is sligthly better than KCOP. where did you get the news about the boost in power?

I have a portable TERK indoor Antenna. I live in Sherman Oaks with a clear view of Mount Wilson, but when the transition to Digital happened I lost Kcal and Kttv.

I really care about KCAL because I need to watch the Lakers. I have my antenna next to the TV, but I am thinking if I need to put it in the attic or upgrade to another indoor antenna. When I scan for channels I don't get any from 9-13. My distance is 23.9 miles! I was thinking of putting the TERK Antenna on the attic and bring it down to the distribution box (powered). I have runs of RG6 from there to all the rooms. Should I get another antenna or give it a shot first?

What do you guys think?

Not sure if the Terk you described can handle hi vhf. Some of the stations moved from Ultra High Frequency (UHF) i.e. like a bow tie antenna or perhaps what you have to high Very High Frequency (VHF) i.e. like rabbit ears Can you receive any other vhf channels? : Channels 7, 11, or 13? If you can could be power. Try giving it direct line of sight to Mount Wilson. See what happens. Shorten the cable if you can.

There are others who come to this LA thread who can help you with antenna selection. Keep trying to different things and soon you'll be watching the
Los Angeles Lakers!

You need to find out if the Terk antenna you have can handle high vhf.

Then by a website called TVFool what the db is at your location. So, go to tvfool.com i.e. www then tvfool.com.

Welcome.

Gainy you could try some thing like this http://www.crutchfield.com/S-Z5RTdJ2HFRO/learn/learningcenter/home/antenna.html?page=3 if your attic is big enough. I pick up 70 some ch but I have a roof antenna its been up there since the late 90s. I just replace the cable every couple of years .

If you could I would go with a outside antenna and a short run of cable check radio shack or home depot for a small antenna.

I'm getting KTTV still coming in weak right now, KCOP worse, maybe it's still weather. If and when I see a strong signal on the main channel, I'll rescan, pick up any new subs. Thanks.

I have a portable TERK indoor Antenna. I live in Sherman Oaks with a clear view of Mount Wilson, but when the transition to Digital happened I lost Kcal and Kttv.

I really care about KCAL because I need to watch the Lakers. I have my antenna next to the TV, but I am thinking if I need to put it in the attic or upgrade to another indoor antenna. When I scan for channels I don't get any from 9-13. My distance is 23.9 miles! I was thinking of putting the TERK Antenna on the attic and bring it down to the distribution box (powered). I have runs of RG6 from there to all the rooms. Should I get another antenna or give it a shot first?

What do you guys think?
First of all, move the antenna as far away from METAL as possible....and try different locations,
perhaps with a longer coax, inserted by using a F-F barrel connector (see R-S).

You didn't say which Terk you have....
If it is like the HDTVi or HDTVa, you need to extend the RabbitEars....about 14-in each.
If it doesn't have RabbitEars, it is only designed for UHF and you'll need a new antenna:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1037779

I'm getting KTTV still coming in weak right now, KCOP worse, maybe it's still weather. If and when I see a strong signal on the main channel, I'll rescan, pick up any new subs. Thanks.

KTTV is indeed somewhat stronger now. Previously, its signal strength was reading about 50% here, with KCOP reunning about 65%. This morning they are neck-and-neck at about 67%.

I have an RF amp sitting in my garage. I've wanted to hook it up to the antenna but have never done it.

are you sure? i dont see much difference in my signal although it is sligthly better than KCOP. where did you get the news about the boost in power?
Yep, I'm sure.

KTTV is indeed somewhat stronger now. Previously, its signal strength was reading about 50% here, with KCOP reunning about 65%. This morning they are neck-and-neck at about 67%.

I'm still very weak on KTTV, and can't get KCOP at all. Rescanning now, see if I can find that 11.2.

Did they by any chance change polarization? I had some luck yesterday turning the antenna to vertical instead of horizontal. Today, horizontal seems back in style. Dang, up until this rain, I thought I finally had the antenna problems licked.

--

oh great, now it looks like 11 reports as 11.3, and 13.x has disappeared entirely.

11.3 is an SD subchannel of 11, a tiny weak signal on 11.1 won't decode.

Does the set know what 11.1 means, if the scan didn't even pick it up?

(hmm, I guess so, since it sees 11.3, reports same frequency, right?)

I have no idea what is going on.

7:00PM

Channel 2.1 has now vanished entirely.

decodethis, it's most likely the wet ground conditions has changed how much multipath you are seeing. Too much multipath can affect reliable reception. Give some time for the ground/vegetation to dry out and do your rescan again. I speak from experience. Right now I can't get 11.1, but I can receive 11.2. After a few days of no rain, I will be able to get 11.1. Good luck.

oh great, now it looks like 11 reports as 11.3, and 13.x has disappeared entirely.

11.3 is an SD subchannel of 11, a tiny weak signal on 11.1 won't decode.

Does the set know what 11.1 means, if the scan didn't even pick it up?

(hmm, I guess so, since it sees 11.3, reports same frequency, right?)

I have no idea what is going on.

One mo' time. Just because you're getting a channel that is mapping as 11-2 or 11-3 does not necessarily mean it is coming from 11.

Channel 13, KCOP, is currently sending out a SD retransmission of KTTV, and it is mapped to 11-2. It is part of 13's stream, not 11's, and if you are getting 13-1, you should get it as well.

Why is your TV seeing it as 11-3 instead of 11-2? Now that is a mystery.

11.3 is the physical location of virtual 11.1. The receiver/TV will pick this up if the station's PSIP generator crashes, or if the signal locks for long enough to pick up the most basic piece of information in the stream (the PAT), but not long enough to get anything else. I'm guessing the latter in this case.

Why is your TV seeing it as 11-3 instead of 11-2? Now that is a mystery.

Not really. It means the TV failed to pick up the PSIP that maps it to 11-1, so it's showing the physical channel number (11) and the MPEG-2 Program Number (3).

- Trip

PS - KNLA-LD (20) is back. Let loose the pigeons.

Not really. It means the TV failed to pick up the PSIP that maps it to 11-1, so it's showing the physical channel number (11) and the MPEG-2 Program Number (3).

- Trip

??? He said it was SD. That wouldn't be 11-1. I'm confuzzed. :confused:

??? He said it was SD. That wouldn't be 11-1. I'm confuzzed. :confused:
To clarify, 11.1 is physical channel 11 in HD. There is no other subchannel on physical channel 11.

11.2 is PSIP-mapped, but is actually physical channel 13.2. It is SD. Physical and PSIP channel 13.1 is KCOP HD.

Confusing, I know, but it's our best shot at getting KTTV into OTA homes that can get either physical channel 11 or 13.

And if you think this is confusing, wait a week or so for our next stunt! Keep those UHF antennas pointed towards Mt Wilson!

dtv4u

??? He said it was SD. That wouldn't be 11-1. I'm confuzzed. :confused:

That's what threw me off as well. I first thought coyoteaz and Trip's suggestions were good possible ones but then remembered the OP said it was only an "SD sub-channel" reading 11-3.

so ... :confused:

My channel 2.1 suddenly went dead last night around 7:00PM, and is still dead this morning. Signal strength is dead zero. Is it just me? Could it be the TV? I've tried two different indoor amplified antennas, that seem to work fine on other channels ... other than KTTV and KCOP!

I'll rescan this morning at 9:00AM, fwiw. Want to watch the ABC News first, coming in weak but watchable.

--

8:30: More news from the front, my "11.3" is HD after all, and my KCOP 13.3 is now coming in. 2.1 still dead.

9:45: Rescanned. Now have 13.1, 13.3, 13.4, 11.2, 11.3 - but no 11.1, and no 2.1. Is that a likely failure mode for a TV, it "forgets" how to see a single channel?

My channel 2.1 suddenly went dead last night around 7:00PM, and is still dead this morning. Signal strength is dead zero. Is it just me? Could it be the TV? I've tried two different indoor amplified antennas, that seem to work fine on other channels ... other than KTTV and KCOP!

I'll rescan this morning at 9:00PM, fwiw. Want to watch the ABC News first, coming in weak but watchable.

As of 8:11 a.m., I am receiving 2.1 at the normal signal strength.

BTW, I starting to receive 11.1 just as I expected.

Want to learn more about this. So, if your behind something, a hill, etc. what causes some channels to go dark. Does it affect certain frequencies? Low Numbers, High Numbers, VHF, UHF? How does it work. Can someone go it detail on this.

Want to learn more about this. Get Educated. Heck, maybe even a little smarter.

Radio waves (tv signal) moves in a straight line ... mostly. Put something big between you and Mt. Wilson, and you get no signal. But, it can "leak" around something small. Turns out lower frequences leak better than high frequencies. Also, that straight-line signal can also bounce off stuff, that's "multipath", whether or not the main signal is blocked. But after the bounce, it's not completely in sync with the main signal, and can interfere with it. If the straight signal comes through, it's usually very strong and you can ignore the multipath, but in my case, pretty much ALL I get is multipath! It's lucky that the digital system can decode it, under the circumstances. If it were the old analog signal, I'd get a few ghosts. When the digital gets too many ghosts, it just gives up.

Rain can also affect both the direct signal and the multipath. The multipath is so weak, wet conditions can bend and weaken it further.

HTH

11-1,-2 and 13-1 are both 100 strength on my TiVo here this morning with this antenna and the 8275 preamp.

My channel 2.1 suddenly went dead last night around 7:00PM, and is still dead this morning. Signal strength is dead zero. Is it just me? Could it be the TV? I've tried two different indoor amplified antennas, that seem to work fine on other channels ... other than KTTV and KCOP!

I'll rescan this morning at 9:00AM, fwiw. Want to watch the ABC News first, coming in weak but watchable.

--

8:30: More news from the front, my "11.3" is HD after all, and my KCOP 13.3 is now coming in. 2.1 still dead.

9:45: Rescanned. Now have 13.1, 13.3, 13.4, 11.2, 11.3 - but no 11.1, and no 2.1. Is that a likely failure mode for a TV, it "forgets" how to see a single channel?

Appears to me there's something very weird going on with your TV's ATSC tuner PSIP decoder.

The above list from the 9:45 rescan means you are receiving;

13.1 = KCOP's virtual channel for their main sub-channel. (HD)

13.3 = KCOP's actual RF channel number for their main sub-channel. (HD)

13.4 = KCOP's actual RF channel number for their second sub-channel which is mapped to virtual channel 11.2 to serve as KTTV's second SD sub-channel. (SD)

11.2 = The virtual channel number for KTTV's second SD sub-channel coming from KCOP's RF 13.4 as previously stated above. (SD)

11.3 = The actual RF channel number for KTTV's main sub-channel. (HD)

And you are missing:

2.1 = Both KCBS' single channel 2.1 virtual (43.1 actual RF)

11.1 = KTTV's main virtual sub-channel number. (HD)

Yes, I'd say something is really screwy going on with your ATSC tuner's PSIP
decoder in correctly reading the PSIP metadata stream.

Yep, I'm sure [about KTTV power increase].

Anyone who's read AVS Forum for a while is aware of your credentials.

So, I have to ask -- was it a Fox corporate mandate for existing O&Os on VHF to return to the original channel post-transition or a local decision?

Anyone who's read AVS Forum for a while is aware of your credentials.

So, I have to ask -- was it a Fox corporate mandate for existing O&Os on VHF to return to the original channel post-transition or a local decision?

I'm sure he will provide an answer as well, but what I was told is that the Fox corporate engineers went station-by-station and determined which channel would provide better coverage.

And I had missed that he said the 11-3 was in SD. That I don't know about. Probably the tuner being weird.

- Trip

And if you think this is confusing, wait a week or so for our next stunt! Keep those UHF antennas pointed towards Mt Wilson!

Oh swell. :D

Let me guess ... 11 and 13 are going to start relaying ultra-low-bitrate versions of all the subchannels from 18, 31, 44 and 57, but map them to maximally confusing numbers like 2-9 and 5-4 and 28-50.

9:45: Rescanned. Now have 13.1, 13.3, 13.4, 11.2, 11.3 - but no 11.1, and no 2.1. Is that a likely failure mode for a TV, it "forgets" how to see a single channel?

If I were you I'd unhook the antenna completely and do a scan to clear out the TV's memory, then unplug the TV for a few hours, replug, and scan it again with the antenna hooked up. It might flush out all the bad data.

... And I had missed that he said the 11-3 was in SD. That I don't know about. Probably the tuner being weird.
- Trip

No, it was actually HD after all as the OP corrected in post #6740. So he was indeed receiving KTTV's main sub-channel on it's RF channel number.

The problem now is the OP is receiving a combination of duplicate sub-channels on both their virtual and RF channel numbers, while completely missing others either virtual and/or RF as well.

So I agree "weird tuner" ...