If I were you I'd unhook the antenna completely and do a scan to clear out the TV's memory, then unplug the TV for a few hours, replug, and scan it again with the antenna hooked up. It might flush out all the bad data.

+1 here as well;

Good advice, give it a try :)

(old Mad Magazine joke)

OK, repeated runs of "Add digital channel" have finally rediscovered 2.1 and 11.1, and I have all these kewl new KTTV and KCOP subchannels.

But the signals are still weak, have to keep fiddling the antenna, channel poops out if I stand up and walk to kitchen.

Buggers. I'm going to have to start playing with external antennas - but there's only multipath to pick up even so ... or just join the twentyfirst century and go cable. FIOS is supposed to reach here sometime this year.

Thanks for info and support, all.

To clarify, 11.1 is physical channel 11 in HD. There is no other subchannel on physical channel 11.

11.2 is PSIP-mapped, but is actually physical channel 13.2. It is SD. Physical and PSIP channel 13.1 is KCOP HD.

Confusing, I know, but it's our best shot at getting KTTV into OTA homes that can get either physical channel 11 or 13.

And if you think this is confusing, wait a week or so for our next stunt! Keep those UHF antennas pointed towards Mt Wilson!

dtv4u

Thanks dtv4u for the info.; :)

Look forward to KTTV/KCOP's next riddling sub-channel configuration. And a lot of OTA techies here will more than love figuring it all out for sure. ;)

But just so we are on the right track terminology-wise, we here refer to KTTV's HD virtual channel as "11.1" and according the Trip's Transport Stream reader info. at http://RabbitEars.info/market.php?mktid=2 the physical or RF channel is actually "11.3," representing "RF channel 11 program number 3" in the PSIP's main Program Association Table (PAT) data I think.

Similarly KTTV's "virtual" 11.2 is mapped over from "virtual" KCOP 13.2, which is actually physical RF 13.4. for RF channel 13 program 4 of the PAT. (Again courtesy of Trip's TS reader info. at RabbitEars.info)

Is this not correct?

EDIT: Just noticed that TS reader data for KCOP physical 13.4 is not posted yet on Trip's site, but would assume of course the data will be as above of course.

Your post served as a reminder; Falcon_77 sent me updated data on KAZA/KFTR/KCOP/KTTV last week. I just uploaded it.

- Trip

And if you think this is confusing, wait a week or so for our next stunt! Keep those UHF antennas pointed towards Mt Wilson!

dtv4u

UHF antennas? Are you firing up one of the old transmitters (65,66)? Renting a little bandwidth with another UHF station?

What is the estimated completion date for the final facilities?

After the addition of the subchannel to channel 13, when I select channel 13 my FusionHDTV 7 USB tuner tunes to the channel 11 SD subchannel instead of channel 13 HD. :(

And if you think this is confusing, wait a week or so for our next stunt! Keep those UHF antennas pointed towards Mt Wilson!
dtv4u

Maybe they are planning on adding an UHF repeater/tower that will have both KTTV's and KCOP's 720P HD channels on one channel.

Sweet. Out of the blue I decided to do a re-scan and I'm suddenly able to get FOX/KTTV-11.1. I haven't been able to get this channel since June.

Over in West LA/90025 with my Terk Indoor HDTVa. Just in time to watch some football. :)

Thanks dtv4u for the info.; :)

Look forward to KTTV/KCOP's next riddling sub-channel configuration. And a lot of OTA techies here will more than love figuring it all out for sure. ;)

But just so we are on the right track terminology-wise, we here refer to KTTV's HD virtual channel as "11.1" and according the Trip's Transport Stream reader info. at http://RabbitEars.info/market.php?mktid=2 the physical or RF channel is actually "11.3," representing "RF channel 11 program number 3" in the PSIP's main Program Association Table (PAT) data I think.

Similarly KTTV's "virtual" 11.2 is mapped over from "virtual" KCOP 13.2, which is actually physical RF 13.4. for RF channel 13 program 4 of the PAT. (Again courtesy of Trip's TS reader info. at RabbitEars.info)

Is this not correct?

EDIT: Just noticed that TS reader data for KCOP physical 13.4 is not posted yet on Trip's site, but would assume of course the data will be as above of course.
You are of course correct; I was trying to put it in terms that someone who doesn't understand transport streams could comprehend. Most folks don't have TSR and wouldn't know what to do with it if they did 8-)

UHF antennas? Are you firing up one of the old transmitters (65,66)? Renting a little bandwidth with another UHF station?

What is the estimated completion date for the final facilities?
If all works as planned, you'll know the answers to your questions in about a week!

A little detective work is always fun, don't you think?

No, it was actually HD after all as the OP corrected in post #6740. So he was indeed receiving KTTV's main sub-channel on it's RF channel number.

The problem now is the OP is receiving a combination of duplicate sub-channels on both their virtual and RF channel numbers, while completely missing others either virtual and/or RF as well.

So I agree "weird tuner" ...
Unless the TV or STB is less than 2 years old, there is a relatively high probablility of some PSIP "weirdness." Sometimes a firmware update, if available, will fix things, but sadly such updates are uncommon in the consumer electronics business. Easier and cheaper (for the manufacturers) to simply come out with a new and improved (yes, one that works) model.

We did not change polarization (yet) as we are still using the same antennas that formerly carried KTTV and KCOP analog.

We will be changing antennas this summer (assuming we can get to Mt Wilson, which has been a challenge lately with the fires and now mudslides blocking access) which will add some vertical polarization and allow KTTV to increase power to 115kw and KCOP to increase to 120kw effective radiated power. You can see what we've been authorized to do at the FCC.GOV website. At that time, we hope most reception issues will go away, at least for indoor and outdoor antenna users.

The jury is still out on how well VHF will work for M/H mobile reception, but the decisions on ultimate digital channel selection were made long before mobile was a gleam in anyone's eye. Yes, they were made collaboratively with internal and external experts, based on rigorous computer analysis of predicted coverage to fixed receivers.

dtv4u

The jury is still out on how well VHF will work for M/H mobile reception, but the decisions on ultimate digital channel selection were made long before mobile was a gleam in anyone's eye. Yes, they were made collaboratively with internal and external experts, based on rigorous computer analysis of predicted coverage to fixed receivers.


..and the models were predicated on an outdoor antenna 30 feet AGL, ja?

If all works as planned, you'll know the answers to your questions in about a week!

A little detective work is always fun, don't you think?

Now that I think about it, KBEH did just light up 63-3 and 63-4... ;)

- Trip

Your post served as a reminder; Falcon_77 sent me updated data on KAZA/KFTR/KCOP/KTTV last week. I just uploaded it.

- Trip

OK, thanks for the update Trip;

However KTTV's SD 11-2 is actually in 4:3 aspect ratio now not 16:9. When 11.2/13.2 first launched for a short while it was originally in 16:9 SD with stretch-o-vision. Then a few days later reverted to a standard 4:3 center-cut of KTTV's main HD channel 11.1.

Although I must say that I still fail to really understand when for whatever reasons broadcast stations launch an SD sub-channel, they always choose 4:3 center-cut.

Isn't it about time to start favoring wide-screen HD sets by using 16:9 SD on these sub-channels (With no stretch-o-vision of course ;) ) and just let old analog TV users simply use the crop feature on their DTV converters?

Perhaps dtv4u might have an idea why this seeming aversion of broadcasters to a 16:9 SD format ... :D

Fixed.

- Trip

From CGC Communicator (http://www.bext.com/_CGC/):

THE MT. WILSON PICTURE IN BRIEF

Snow accumulation was about 17 inches but much deeper in
drift pockets. The heavy icing on the towers from this week's
storms is now about 90% cleared.

A number of stations had major issues during this week's
big storms:

o A major site had a generator failure. I was able to put
on my "diesel mechanic hat" and got the beast up and running for
five hours before it died again. Thankfully the power returned
shortly after the second failure. It was a fuel system problem
-- kept sucking air and needing bleeding to remove the air.

o Another incident involved a logic system that locked out
[the cooling?] pump on the main TX, so they were on their aux TX
for a day or so.

o A microwave system problem required a chopper flight in
yesterday and back in again today.

o Yet another station group had a generator just shut down
for no apparent reason. It was restarted a few hours later with
no faults showing.

o The mountain has lost power for a total of 20+ hours in the
last 13 days or so.

o Roads are EXTREMELY ICY..... Highway 2 is in need of some
work that will take a month or so. The road shoulders are washed
out in some places and some guard rails have been washed away
as well.

Dennis Doty, Mt. Wilson
Sunday, January 24, 2010 @ 10:28 PM PST

Got pretty good reception of KNBC4 and KTLA5 throughout. And, they kept it up with those news broadcasts. Great job! KBEH shown through reliably. Amazing. There were others that kept going also. Hope we see some Emmy's for the folks that keep Over the Air Broadcasts going in spite in an adverse environment.

Hope we see some Emmy's for the folks that keep Over the Air Broadcasts going in spite in an adverse environment.

You'd basically be giving out awards for "dumb luck." Remember, KFLA-LD stayed on the whole time too.

I am posting again -

I have the Radio Shack "Surf Board" UHF antenna

The antenna I am looking at is this one from Monoprice -

http://images.monoprice.com/productlargeimages/47301.jpg

Its basically the same style as I have now. I get 80-90% signal strength with it on the UHF channels. I know VHF is not quite as directional and it be fine.

Its (the UHF) mounted in the top corner of my bedroom window pointing directly at Mt. Wilson.

Should I be okay?

Seems people get good results from it...

Tonight while watching "Nature" on KOCE HD the PQ went to crap while seeing the Grizzly Bear relax in Yellowstone Lake. :(

I am posting again -

I have the Radio Shack "Surf Board" UHF antenna

The antenna I am looking at is this one from Monoprice -

http://images.monoprice.com/productlargeimages/47301.jpg

Its basically the same style as I have now. I get 80-90% signal strength with it on the UHF channels. I know VHF is not quite as directional and it be fine.

Its (the UHF) mounted in the top corner of my bedroom window pointing directly at Mt. Wilson.

Should I be okay?

Seems people get good results from it...


It's pretty unlikely that you will get VHF reception from what appears to be a UHF antenna....

Was/Is anyone else having problems with KTTV and KCOP last night/now? I usually get 90%+ signal strength but recently getting pixellations, dropouts, etc. I saw signal strength dropping low as 53%. Maybe weather (incoming storm) related?

I was using the Radio Shack version of same, and while it never got VHF channel 2 very well, it did fine on VHF 4 and above, and now that the lowest we have is 7.1 it should be fine.

Phildaant, out in 90049 I've found KTTV/KCOP very weak since the big storm and still very weak this morning. If you read upthread, you see they've made some temporary "improvements" that are supposed to last until they can get their big torch lit in a few months. Sure don't seem to have helped much in my case, but I'm shadowed in an unusual situation so I can't speak for the general case.

Phildaant, out in 90049 I've found KTTV/KCOP very weak since the big storm and still very weak this morning. If you read upthread, you see they've made some temporary "improvements" that are supposed to last until they can get their big torch lit in a few months. Sure don't seem to have helped much in my case, but I'm shadowed in an unusual situation so I can't speak for the general case.Hmm, I don't remember these problems 1/17/2010 and 1/18/2010 nights (FOX's 24 season 8 premiere) and before. Did you have problems a few weeks ago too? Still odd to see my signal strengths pretty high, but it looks like unstable if it drops to 50ish% even if I am under 20 miles from Mt. Wilson? It must be going lower or something since my signal strengths update every ten seconds.

Tonight while watching "Nature" on KOCE HD the PQ went to crap while seeing the Grizzly Bear relax in Yellowstone Lake. :(

I saw a little bit of that episode too, and noticed a lot of pixellation in scenes with a lot of motion. This is very typical of KOCE, and I suspect that they are allocating far too few bits to 50.1. As usual, reception was good, however.

Tonight while watching "Nature" on KOCE HD the PQ went to crap while seeing the Grizzly Bear relax in Yellowstone Lake. :(

I also saw pixelation. Great scenery though!

I also saw pixelation. Great scenery though!
Being in NY, I obviously didn't see the scene you refer to over KOCE, however I will say that one of the most challenging scenes for an MPEG encoder is a running stream or a shimmering lake. The highlights just blow out most MPEG encoders and artifacts become visible.

dtv4u

Hmm, I don't remember these problems 1/17/2010 and 1/18/2010 nights (FOX's 24 season 8 premiere) and before. Did you have problems a few weeks ago too? Still odd to see my signal strengths pretty high, but it looks like unstable if it drops to 50ish% even if I am under 20 miles from Mt. Wilson? It must be going lower or something since my signal strengths update every ten seconds.

My Sony only displays signal strength on a diagnostic screen so I don't check it that often, what I get are dropouts and pixelation when the signal is too weak. I don't recall any serious problems a few weeks ago, I switched to a different indoor antenna a couple of months ago, and don't recall any major problems between then and 1/18, thought I had it all licked.

But my KCBS has been very weak the last week or two also, it's not just KTTV. 4,5,7,9 have pretty much stayed strong. 28 is sporadic, often seems to require I adjust the angle on the antenna to get it best, different broadcast tower location, maybe?

My Sony only displays signal strength on a diagnostic screen so I don't check it that often, what I get are dropouts and pixelation when the signal is too weak. I don't recall any serious problems a few weeks ago, I switched to a different indoor antenna a couple of months ago, and don't recall any major problems between then and 1/18, thought I had it all licked.

But my KCBS has been very weak the last week or two also, it's not just KTTV. 4,5,7,9 have pretty much stayed strong. 28 is sporadic, often seems to require I adjust the angle on the antenna to get it best, different broadcast tower location, maybe?Hmm. Interesting.

Being in NY, I obviously didn't see the scene you refer to over KOCE, however I will say that one of the most challenging scenes for an MPEG encoder is a running stream or a shimmering lake. The highlights just blow out most MPEG encoders and artifacts become visible.

dtv4u

Also if the scene is primarily red and moving, such as closeups of a pianist's hands playing a fast piece. Lots of artifacts.

I noticed that KSKJ has gone digital on 45-1. Currently only 45-1. Last week when I first noticed it, they were running the same infomercial on 45-1 and 45-2.

Also if the scene is primarily red and moving, such as closeups of a pianist's hands playing a fast piece. Lots of artifacts.Or lots of fast movements, rain, etc. I still prefer analog. :)

Tonight while watching "Nature" on KOCE HD the PQ went to crap while seeing the Grizzly Bear relax in Yellowstone Lake. :(

According to http://www.multichannel.com/article/389094-Sezmi_Tells_L_A_Story.php, KOCE is selling bandwidth to Sezmi for their over-the-air cable service--remember the failed USDTV? I don't have a "before" snapshot, but I'll bet the 3.5 Mbps was purloined from KOCE's HD pid, http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17996699&postcount=47.

No, it came from the former SD version of 50-4 that is now gone.

- Trip

KOCE has always had terrible pixellation on their HD channel 50.1. I don't completely understand why it is so much worse than anyone else's. Also, it usually looks surprisingly soft for 1080i. Probably all of this is due, at least in part, to having too many SD subchannels.

But my KCBS has been very weak the last week or two also, it's not just KTTV. 4,5,7,9 have pretty much stayed strong. 28 is sporadic, often seems to require I adjust the angle on the antenna to get it best, different broadcast tower location, maybe?

Yes, KCET 28 is indeed at a different location from most other transmitters, and is located on the eastern part of Mt. Wilson, and so it has a much less favorable vantage point, at least if you live farther to the west. KTBN and KLCS are there also, and these are much worse that even KCET.

Incidentally, VHF stations KTTV and KCOP are also on the eastern part of Mt. Wilson, but VHF is much better at diffracting around obstacles than UHF, and so I too get excellent reception of these two. However, they were terrible when they were on UHF.

KBEH seems to be taking a nap right now. No signal.

But my KCBS has been very weak the last week or two also, it's not just KTTV.I recalled a couple hiccups with my KCBS2 feed on the 18th at 9:30 PM PST for Big Bang Theory, but nothing like KTTV and KCOP (haven't checked tonight but I assume they're still bad). I hope they get resolved by Friday night for Dollhouse series finale! Rain should be gone by tomorrow.

Attached are some spectrum analysis plots for those who are interested. The ones with the "n" are w/o the pre-amp. I only lose KNLA-LD w/o the pre-amp, but I don't watch it anyway.

These are with the following antennas in my attic:

Y-5-2-6 (not needed for DTV here)
YA1713 (for 7-13)
CM4228 (UHF)

The pre-amp is a CM7777, when in use. These are from S. OC (Ladera Ranch).

Sorry guys, I have this Phillips Indoor Antenna.
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5000836

I get kcbs, knbc, ktla, (Kabc does get scan but hardly get image,) I don't get Kcal and Kttv or KCOP at all.

Those are the only three I don't get. I get 60 channels including Univision (Yeahh WorldCup)

My DB for KCAL is NM(dbm)50.4, pwr(dbm) -40.5
KTTV - NM(dbm) 55.2, pwr(dBm) -35.7
KCOP - NM(dbm) 50.8, pwr(dBm) -40.1
KABC - NM(dbm) 54.7, pwr(dBm) -36.1

Everything else is awesome.... But I want KABC, KCAL for my Lakers quest for a Repeat. I'm happy I have Univision for my WorldCup though.

That antenna is on its side, right underneat the plasma. What to do, I haven't scanned since I posted...will try it when I get home.

Sorry guys, I have this Phillips Indoor Antenna.
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5000836

I get kcbs, knbc, ktla, (Kabc does get scan but hardly get image,) I don't get Kcal and Kttv or KCOP at all.

That is a UHF-only antenna, so it won't pick up those three stations. You need a different antenna.

So what are the recommendations for my needs?

So what are the recommendations for my needs?

One that adds rabbit ears.

Any recommendations please!!! I will put it in the attic and run it to my distribution box (powered) and send it to all rooms.

Any recommendations please!!! I will put it in the attic and run it to my distribution box (powered) and send it to all rooms.

If you are putting the antenna in the attic and there is room for it, it would be much better to use a full-sized roof antenna than rabbit ears, which are too much of a compromise, especially on the VHF stations, channels 7-13.

Any recommendations please!!! I will put it in the attic and run it to my distribution box (powered) and send it to all rooms.

Well since you mentioned your willingness to go to the "attic," I assume you can install an outside antenna which is always the best choice whenever possible.

Therefore, I would strongly recommend one of the Winegard HD 769 series such as located here if any will fit in your attic space in the required direction to Mt. Wilson:

http://www.solidsignal.com/cview.asp?mc=03&m=Winegard&c=TV%20Antennas

Now I have the HD 7697 (not in the attic) which is admittedly overkill for my area here in South L.A. only ~20 mi. SW of Wilson.

But perhaps the HD 7694 or -5, which is about the best balance of this series of antennas between performance, cost, and size, would suit you.

... KCAL for my Lakers quest for a Repeat. I'm happy I have Univision for my WorldCup though.

I would also strongly recommend that if the Lakers don't pick-up their play soon, you may find there wasn't any real need for you to receive KCAL 9. :D

That antenna is on its side, right underneat the plasma.

Placing an antenna near the TV is problematic, especially in the VHF band, as the TV itself is probably a significant source of noise.

Also, as others have noted, the antenna you have isn't designed for VHF DTV (7-13 here).

However, before you run out and buy a new antenna, try moving the one you have into the attic to see if that solves your problem.

If that doesn't work, something like this may be sufficient in the attic. The HBUXX series is an alternative to the reputable 769x series.

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=HBU22&d=AntennaCraft-HBU22-22-Element-HighBand-VHF-UHF-Outdoor-HDTV-Antenna-%28HBU22%29&c=TV%20Antennas&sku=71607900201

I noticed that KSKJ has gone digital on 45-1. Currently only 45-1. Last week when I first noticed it, they were running the same infomercial on 45-1 and 45-2.

I suppose this means we have seen the last of analog KLAU-LP on 45? Hopefully... I'm getting tired of seeing it appear and disappear, seemingly at random.

Sorry guys, I have this Phillips Indoor Antenna.
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5000836

I get kcbs, knbc, ktla, (Kabc does get scan but hardly get image,) I don't get Kcal and Kttv or KCOP at all.

Those are the only three I don't get. I get 60 channels including Univision (Yeahh WorldCup)

My DB for KCAL is NM(dbm)50.4, pwr(dbm) -40.5
KTTV - NM(dbm) 55.2, pwr(dBm) -35.7
KCOP - NM(dbm) 50.8, pwr(dBm) -40.1
KABC - NM(dbm) 54.7, pwr(dBm) -36.1

Everything else is awesome.... But I want KABC, KCAL for my Lakers quest for a Repeat. I'm happy I have Univision for my WorldCup though.

That antenna is on its side, right underneat the plasma. What to do, I haven't scanned since I posted...will try it when I get home.
You have very strong signals....but the Philips MANT940 is a terrible VHF antenna.

You can chose from ANY of the (preferably amplified) indoor VHF/UHF antennas in EV's list:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1037779
You may not need to go to the attic....and certainly can avoid the hassle and cost for an outdoor antenna.
I think Falcon_77's recommendations are OVERKILL. But just in case, try to get something you can return.

As mentioned you should locate the antenna away from other electronic equipment to
minimize interference.....your current location BENEATH your (metal frame) DTV is also
BLOCKING signals going to the antenna....get it away from metal and as high as possible.

Woooohooo I am Stoked!!! I just move the Antenna away from undernead the tv and placed it on the same wall but on the corner (resting against it) About 10 feet away from Plasma. I was able to find 66 total channels and was finally able to pull KCAL, KTTV and KABC.

11.1 is pulling a constant 44% signal, sometimes stables, other jitter. Can get to 80% by slightly moving ANT.
9.1 is pulling a 60% with stable image but can get to 85% by Moving ANT
7.1 is pulling 70-80% but I have to move it slightly.

5.1 - 75%
4.1 -100%
2.1 - 85%

22.1 - 80%
28.1 - 80%
28.2 - 80%
28.3 - 80%
28.4 - 80% (drops about 10% occasionally)
30.1 - 81%
30.2 - 78%
30.3 - 72%

34.1 - 85% Worldcup in HD Yeah!!!
46.1 - 93%
52.1 - 50% (Stable image)but I can bring it to 80% by moving ANT slightly.
54.1 - 50% Same as above
62.1 - 80%


Pretty much everything else is in the 80% :)


NO KCOP, but I could care less.
As long as I have,
2.1
4.1
5.1
7.1 Lakers Playoffs, Finals Victory
9.1 Same as above
11.1

22.1
34.1
46.1
52.1

Yeah. I don't know i should still try it on the attic to see If I get a stable signal across the range. Like I said, I left the antenna on an upright position against the corner.

I suppose this means we have seen the last of analog KLAU-LP on 45? Hopefully... I'm getting tired of seeing it appear and disappear, seemingly at random.

The times between its appearances have been getting longer and longer. The last break was about 2 1/2 weeks (assuming I didn't miss a very short-lived resurrection), and we're about 2 weeks into this one.

I'm not writing it off yet. They've talked some poor gullible local car dealer into adding their infomercial to the mix, so it's generating at least a little revenue when it's on the air.

I think Falcon_77's recommendations are OVERKILL...

Not necessarily. I have similar signal strengths here, and my impression is that it would not be possible to reduce the antenna capabilities significantly without at least some loss of reliable reception. This would be even more so, if the antenna is in an attic or indoors.

Gianny- might try the trusty 'ol rabbit ears with an inline 10db RS amplifier. Not a distrobution amp. Increases the line by 10db at the antenna. Might pick up the channel your missing. Add some aluminum foil behind it. So, don't give up. And, put it outside underneath eaves , so you get amplification from an outside antenna. Keep the faith, don't give up. Congrats on your work so far.

I'm picking up a new sub-channel. It's 62-3 VIDA, & is only showing a test pattern.

An application for a new digital low power station, on channel 4, has been filed with Newport Beach as the COL. The transmitter location is to be determined, but the FCC shows it above the 73 toll road.

https://licensing.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101354517&formid=346&fac_num=184178

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=LD1354517.html

There is a small park right across from that site and FloTV/55 is up there too, along with KJLL (92.7).

...but a non-co-located low-bander? :rolleyes:

Hooray! I hope they have infomercials and religious programming. Maybe a few Chinese, Korean and Vietnamese channels too. Those markets are so under served around here.

Do these independent local channels even care what is on their subchannels? It seems to me the most important concern to them is just getting paid.

That low-power on 4 will probably be dismissed since there's no window open for filing such things at this time. Nothing to worry about.

- Trip

Who's worried? Nobody else is doing anything with channel 4. Might as well be them as anybody.

63-3 is running promos for Mexicanal. Wow - it looks professional! Production values and stuff.
Says it launches February 1st.
http://www.mexicanal.com/english
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexicanal
Video bitrate hanging within the 3.10 to 3.40 Mbps range, audio 192 kbps, resolution 704 x 480.

63-4, still on the test pattern.

I recalled a couple hiccups with my KCBS2 feed on the 18th at 9:30 PM PST for Big Bang Theory, but nothing like KTTV and KCOP (haven't checked tonight but I assume they're still bad). I hope they get resolved by Friday night for Dollhouse series finale! Rain should be gone by tomorrow.As of last night after 9:30 PM PST, KTTV seems OK now. I didn't bother to check KCOP since I don't really watch it and read that it shares the same transmitter as KTTV's.

Noticed sometimes when there is a smaller temperature differential between the top and bottom of the hill between the antenna and the top of the hill towards Mount Wilson that the reception of the lower and higher UHF Channels are better than the channels in the middle. Am wondering if refraction is dependent on power at the transmitting antenna first, then temperature differential with the hill and the frequency. So, can be frequency dependent if there is a smaller differential. So, channels, KCBS2, KNBC4, can be received and on the higher end KOCE 50. Get more, but you get the idea. Got a 500 foot hill and 70 miles to Mount Wilson from the Ventura Avenue area by the highway 33 towards Ojai for new readers.

63-3 is running promos for Mexicanal. Wow - it looks professional! Production values and stuff.
Says it launches February 1st.

Mexicanal is a very slick professional netlet. It airs lots of local news from different regions of Mexico, along with some very entertaining general interest programming. Great music, too. Las Vegas has had Mexicanal for over a year now.

As of last night after 9:30 PM PST, KTTV seems OK now. I didn't bother to check KCOP since I don't really watch it and read that it shares the same transmitter as KTTV's.

No KCOP and KTTV transmitters are not the same and geographically separate, though both are still located on the eastern side of the Mt. Wilson antenna farms in the so-called "Fox Compound" or "group."

In fact the geographical separation is the primary reason for the recent setup of Fox 11.2 SD mapped over from KCOP to give viewers an alternate channel with a hopefully different reception quality during this interim period before both KTTV and KCOP are capable of their full authorized power sometime later this year.

So if you cannot receive KTTV's main signal on 11-1 then perhaps you will have better luck with 11-2 which is actually carried on KCOP's transmitter at another location on Wilson. :)

As of last night after 9:30 PM PST, KTTV seems OK now. I didn't bother to check KCOP since I don't really watch it and read that it shares the same transmitter as KTTV's.
Curious where you are located?

dtv4u

Apparently, 57.9 has a new tenant replacing Jewelry TV. Channel is named ZWTV which is stands for something like Zhong Want TV. Looks like they will be airing Mandarin Chinese programming from Taiwan.

Curious where you are located?

dtv4uAccording to Antennaweb, 323-324 degrees heading on compass and under 20 miles.


And KTTV and KCOP were bad tonight (Dollhouse had a lot of glitches). :(

No KCOP and KTTV transmitters are not the same and geographically separate, though both are still located on the eastern side of the Mt. Wilson antenna farms in the so-called "Fox Compound" or "group."

In fact the geographical separation is the primary reason for the recent setup of Fox 11.2 SD mapped over from KCOP to give viewers an alternate channel with a hopefully different reception quality during this interim period before both KTTV and KCOP are capable of their full authorized power sometime later this year.

So if you cannot receive KTTV's main signal on 11-1 then perhaps you will have better luck with 11-2 which is actually carried on KCOP's transmitter at another location on Wilson. :)Too bad 11-2 isn't HD. :( I thought they finished the upgrade from their high signal strenghts (unstable for me).

Picked up a subchannel this morning. Either 11.2 or 12.3. Not a main channel. Has something changed with VHF FOX 11? Power increase? Used to get it with some snow occasionally with analog. Maybe conditions were optimal this morning for this frequency.

Disregard earlier post. Got FOX 11.2 SD this morning. Intermittent. Will drop out as the temperature heats up. Wondering how much power is being used to transmit. KW.

Disregard earlier post. Got FOX 11.2 SD this morning. Intermittent. Will drop out as the temperature heats up. Wondering how much power is being used to transmit. KW.Yea, this one is old news (mentioned already -- see above). I rescanned last night, and my TV tuners found it and others. Too bad 11.2 isn't HD either.

I noticed some weak channels from 9/28/2009 show up better and are watchable now.

Picked up a subchannel this morning. Either 11.2 or 12.3. Not a main channel. Has something changed with VHF FOX 11? Power increase? Used to get it with some snow occasionally with analog. Maybe conditions were optimal this morning for this frequency.

One more time, again. 11.2 is part of 13's transmission, not 11's.

Some tuners also get confused by 11.2 mapped from RF13.
They should map it as 13.11

Some tuners also get confused by 11.2 mapped from RF13.
They should map it as 13.11
I think mapping to 13.11 would cause more viewer confusion.

dtv4u

KTTV/11 just showed up on 47.5, however, it is squished horizontally at the moment

I think mapping to 13.11 would cause more viewer confusion.

dtv4u

I think viewers can easily see if FOX was on 13.11 since the station ID bug is on the screen all the time. Once they know that, viewers adapt quickly.

Here are the technical problems that my tuner has with 11.2 mapped from RF13. It can only get to sub channels by using the up/down channel buttons.

If I am watching 11.1 and hit up channel, it says no signal on 11.2 unless I hit up channel to 13.1 and then down channel to 11.2 for a good signal.

If I am watching 11.2 and hit down channel, it says no signal on 11.1 unless I enter channel RF11.

All this tuner confusion would go away if 11.2 was 13.2 or 13.11 instead but I've adapted to it now. Just requires more button pushing.

KTTV/11 just showed up on 47.5, however, it is squished horizontally at the moment

What RF channel is 47.5 on?

What RF channel is 47.5 on?From my TS Reader Lite, on my computer, for details and statistics: http://pastie.org/802360 ("PMT PID 143 (0x008f) - Program 5" is the KTTV feed)... Channel 47 is 671 MHz (is that RF?).

From my TS Reader Lite, on my computer, for details and statistics: http://pastie.org/802360 ("PMT PID 143 (0x008f) - Program 5" is the KTTV feed)... Channel 47 is 671 MHz (is that RF?).

671 Mhz is channel 47 but I get KAZA-DT (Digital) on Channel: 47 (54.1) so I guess I won't get 47.5 or is it transmitted from KAZA and 47.5 is not showing up? Do you still get 54.1?

671 Mhz is channel 47 but I get KAZA-DT (Digital) on Channel: 47 (54.1) so I guess I won't get 47.5 or is it transmitted from KAZA and 47.5 is not showing up? Do you still get 54.1?Yes, I still have 54.1.

671 Mhz is channel 47 but I get KAZA-DT (Digital) on Channel: 47 (54.1) so I guess I won't get 47.5 or is it transmitted from KAZA and 47.5 is not showing up? Do you still get 54.1?
Hi Jeff,

May I ask what you are using for a tuner? I see your point about PSIP being less than straightforward in your case.

As for the newly emerged 47-5, that should remap to 11.2 or 11.3 at some point soon. I'm sure my friends in LA are scrambling a bit right now to get it right 8-)

dtv4u

ok, looks like it 47.5 was supposed to map to 11.3 but the PSIP is not complete.
So Fox 11.3 will be from RF47.

According to Antennaweb, 323-324 degrees heading on compass and under 20 miles.


And KTTV and KCOP were bad tonight (Dollhouse had a lot of glitches). :(
Just for clarification, is there a nearby town?

dtv4u

Hi Jeff,

May I ask what you are using for a tuner? I see your point about PSIP being less than straightforward in your case.

As for the newly emerged 47-5, that should remap to 11.2 or 11.3 at some point soon. I'm sure my friends in LA are scrambling a bit right now to get it right 8-)

dtv4u

It is the built-in ATSC tuner in a Viewsonic TV from Aug 2006. I guess it doesn't handle sub channels very well since it is so old. I tried a newer RCA converter box and it does not have any problem with sub channels from different RF channels.

KAZA is not transmitting a proper TSID. This is probably resulting in some issues.

- Trip

No KCOP and KTTV transmitters are not the same and geographically separate, though both are still located on the eastern side of the Mt. Wilson antenna farms in the so-called "Fox Compound" or "group."

In fact the geographical separation is the primary reason for the recent setup of Fox 11.2 SD mapped over from KCOP to give viewers an alternate channel with a hopefully different reception quality during this interim period before both KTTV and KCOP are capable of their full authorized power sometime later this year.

So if you cannot receive KTTV's main signal on 11-1 then perhaps you will have better luck with 11-2 which is actually carried on KCOP's transmitter at another location on Wilson. :)For kicks, I tried 11-2 for a while. It's more stable like KCOP, but still has a few glitches. How far away are both of these transmitters?

It also looks like this old HDTV tuner, from 2005, isn't handling it well even though I had no problems on 1/18/2010 night and before. But then my other old one works fine. Oy! I wonder what changed. When did KTTV add 11.2 (must had been related if it was after 1/18/2010)?

Interesting log:
MPEG-2 Statistics
Table Sections Processed CRC Errors
PAT 2.0k 0
CAT 0 0
PMT 2 0
ETT 1.8k 1
PSIP 1.7k 1
EIT 1.1k 1

Continuity errors: 368
TEI errors: 0
Calculated multiplex rate: 19368816 bps

Ick!

KAZA is not transmitting a proper TSID. This is probably resulting in some issues.

- Trip

I suppose so...

Right now I'm currently getting this new version of KTTV's main feed from KAZA on its RF channel 47.5 as a 16:9 SD sub-channel with no sound.

Interestingly when I switch my TV to widescreen to receive the 16:9 image it also stretches the 4:3 pictures on KAZA's 54-1 and -2 to 16:9 as well.

I can't seem decouple what I do to the image on RF sub-channel 47.5 without affecting what happens to KAZA's 54-1, 2.

But I guess it will eventually settle down to another 4:3 sub-channel actually coming from UHF KAZA and mapped to 11-3 as is KCOP mapping to 11-2

When did KTTV add 11.2 (must had been related if it was after 1/18/2010)?

They didn't. KCOP did.

They didn't. KCOP did.Wait a minute. I thought KTTV bought KCOP?

Wait a minute. I thought KTTV bought KCOP?

They did. But 11.2 is coming from the KCOP transmitter.

Update on 11.3 or whatever it is ... now showing in genuine SD widescreen. My Sansonic CECB can't find it because it still isn't mapped properly. Still nothing on the audio.

They did. But 11.2 is coming from the KCOP transmitter.But wasn't it KTTV's idea to have a 11.2 on KCOP's transmitter to give an expanded broadcast?

Wait a minute. I thought KTTV bought KCOP?

They did;

Its not that "KCOP did it" as though a separately owned corporate decision from KTTV. But that KTTV actually derived sub-channel 11-2 from some of the underutilized bandwidth of KCOP's transmission.

But wasn't it KTTV's idea to have a 11.2 on KCOP's transmitter to give an expanded broadcast?
Them is us. KTTV and KCOP have a common management now. Both are owned by Fox Television Stations, Inc. There is a lot of cross-pollination, e.g. be sure to watch the Fox 11 News at 11...on KCOP 8-)

dtv4u

Now receiving KAZA on their actual RF sub-channels 47.3 and 47.4.

Their normal virtual sub-channels 54-1 and 54-2 are gone for now and KTTV's main feed on RF 47.5 yesterday is gone altogether.

Weird ... :confused:

Now receiving KAZA on their actual RF sub-channels 47.3 and 47.4.

Their normal virtual sub-channels 54-1 and 54-2 are gone for now and KTTV's main feed on RF 47.5 yesterday is gone altogether.

Weird ... :confused:They must had noticed them that to fix. Isn't keeping up with the changes fun? [grin]

Goodby Worship Channel on the ION Network. Maybe you will reappear on another Independent Station. Well, there's always Trinity Broadcasting Network.

It's pretty unlikely that you will get VHF reception from what appears to be a UHF antenna....

Its not a UHF Only, its UHF/VHF here the specs -

Specifications:

* UHF 470-870 MHz
* VHF 47-230 MHz
* Gain 20 +/- 3dB
* Low noise amplifier technology
* High directionality
* Water-proof and anti-UV housing.

It only LOOKS like a UHF which I have the Radio Shack "Surfboard", works great but only with UHF channels...

Its not a UHF Only, its UHF/VHF here the specs -



It only LOOKS like a UHF which I have the Radio Shack "Surfboard", works great but only with UHF channels...

Don't believe everything you read....

Unless it has a pair of rabbit ears that aren't shown, you'll get better VHF reception from a brick....

I'm presuming you are still talking about the Monoprice 4730 antenna....
The above "specs" only sez it has a 20 dB internal Preamp and doesn't say
anything about the actual Antenna Gain at VHF & UHF frequencies.

Philips MANT-740 is "similar" in size, providing only -13.7 dBd (-11.5 dBi)
actual Antenna Gain on Ch7...remainder being provided by the 20.9 dB Preamp:
http://www.walb.com/Global/story.asp?S=8346127
http://download.p4c.philips.com/files/u/us2-mant940/us2-mant940_pss_aen.pdf
which means it is providing very little rejection of VHF multipath signals.

Compare to non-amplified RCA ANT115 RabbitEars/Loop with -5.2 dBd (-3.0 dBi)
Antenna Gain on Ch7. An internal Preamp would increase these numbers.''

The pertinent question is whether the Hi-VHF signals are strong enough to use
the Monoprice antenna with a lot less VHF Gain than simple RabbitEars.....

PS: Preamps are a poor substitite for ACTUAL Antenna Gain...otherwise we
would ALL be using very high gain Preamps with a 0 dbd Gain Dipoles.....

Don't believe everything you read....

Unless it has a pair of rabbit ears that aren't shown, you'll get better VHF reception from a brick....

I don't believe everything I read or hear for that matter.

I picked up the GE Flat Panel VHF Antenna just a few minutes ago. I'm going through the configuration now on my Media Center. It has Rabbit Ears as well, setup is almost done....

Well its in the same general position as the UHF (Disconnected) but not in the top corner of my window. Its on my desk left corner aimed over the cinder block fence.

Without the amp I get almost all green but 7, 9, 11 and 13 are all weak enough to stutter.

Regular Rabbit Ears aren't any better.

:(

I'm presuming you are still talking about the Monoprice 4730 antenna....
The above "specs" only sez it has a 20 dB internal Preamp and doesn't say
anything about the actual Antenna Gain at VHF & UHF frequencies.

Philips MANT-740 is "similar" in size, providing only -13.7 dBd (-11.5 dBi)
actual Antenna Gain on Ch7...remainder being provided by the 20.9 dB Preamp:
http://www.walb.com/Global/story.asp?S=8346127
http://download.p4c.philips.com/files/u/us2-mant940/us2-mant940_pss_aen.pdf
which means it is providing very little rejection of VHF multipath signals.

Compare to non-amplified RCA ANT115 RabbitEars/Loop with -5.2 dBd (-3.0 dBi)
Antenna Gain on Ch7. An internal Preamp would increase these numbers.''

The pertinent question is whether the Hi-VHF signals are strong enough to use
the Monoprice antenna with a lot less VHF Gain than simple RabbitEars.....

PS: Preamps are a poor substitite for ACTUAL Antenna Gain...otherwise we
would ALL be using very high gain Preamps with a 0 dbd Gain Dipoles.....

Got any suggestions then?

The RCA Rabbit Ears we had before work better amazingly enough (had to re-configure)

KCAL is a bit choppy
KCOP is okay
KTTV is okay
KABC is okay (sub-channels included, could use a signal boost for 7.3)

The booster from the UHF Only antenna seems to help on KCAL but only just.

Guess KCAL is the problem child now...

Rabbit ears with a Radio Shack inline amplifier. Plus 10 db at the antenna. Be trying this soon for VHF out here in Ventura. Rabbit ears outside, underneath eaves. Add a reflector. Aluminum foil, chicken wire, etc.

Amplified RabbitEars/Loop type antenna should be adequate....but indoors is always tricky.
Were the RCA RabbitEars/Loop amplified??? That would make a difference...

And as always: location, location, location. Insert a extra length of coax and sniff around for the best location.

If that doesn't work, attenuation by metal & foil wrap in your building and e-coated windows, plus whatever
blockage you get from surrounding buildings is limiting your VHF reception (UHF bounces around a lot more).....

If you can't figure a way to get the antenna outdoors, you might consider a more powerful Hi-VHF
antenna, such as the (expensive) Antennas Direct ClearStream5 with a UVSJ UHF/VHF Combiner.
Yes it's fairly large, but you can camouflage it by putting a PLASTIC plant inside...or wrap it like a present....

Or consider a simple DIY Circular Loop tuned to the Hi-VHF band (3 times bigger than UHF):
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/loops/vhfloop
I used copper tubing (comes in a coil for plumbing refrigerators), but you could also use try the
OUTSIDE braid on a piece of coax (fatter is always better). Combine Hi-VHF and UHF with UVSJ.
It can also be used with a reflector:
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/loops
Also note the even higher performance Hi-VHF Shorted Bowtie Loop.....

KABC is okay (sub-channels included, could use a signal boost for 7.3)

There's no difference in signal levels from one subchannel to another if they're coming from the same transmitter. It's all one big data stream.

7-3 has a stuttery, crummy looking picture no matter what your signal level. It could definitely use a boost in bitrate, but it's not gonna get it as long as they're trying to send out 2 HD subchannels on the same channel.

Well, everything is back to normal with KAZA's virtual sub-channels again on 54.1, 2 and no sign of the KTTV sub-channel after what I assume was a failed first attempt at mapping KTTV's main feed on a third sub-channel on KAZA over to KTTV's virtual 11.3.

Question is, was this really just a failed "first" attempt that will be tried again at some point later on possibly after an equipment and/or software upgrade at KAZA?

Or has KTTV's plan for a UHF originated sub-channel, at least from KAZA, been shelved altogether?

I think they need to just abandon the whole thing of mapping other stations' subchannels to 11. Map it to something that makes sense (54-3 sounds pretty good) and run a few promos and put up a few billboards. Avoids problems with wonky tuners.

Anyone who can't find it after that probably won't be capable of finding the sponsors' stores either.

Well, everything is back to normal with KAZA's virtual sub-channels again on 54.1, 2 and no sign of the KTTV sub-channel after what I assume was a failed first attempt at mapping KTTV's main feed on a third sub-channel on KAZA over to KTTV's virtual 11.3.

Question is, was this really just a failed "first" attempt that will be tried again at some point later on possibly after an equipment and/or software upgrade at KAZA?

Or has KTTV's plan for a UHF originated sub-channel, at least from KAZA, been shelved altogether?
We had a faulty mux, which should be replaced today. We'll be baaack...I hope.

dtv4u

We had a faulty mux, which should be replaced today. We'll be baaack...I hope.

dtv4u

"We," you mean that is "KAZA" had the faulty mux.?

Since the sub-channel is actually coming from them.

"We," you mean that is "KAZA" had the faulty mux.?

Since the sub-channel is actually coming from them.
There are at least four players in this game, including Fox, and frankly I'm not sure whose property tag is on the mux in question. Whose ever it is, it is getting replaced today, Fedex willing.

dtv4u

The Faulty Mux.

Sounds like a Dr. Seuss character.

Suddenly, I have an appetite for green eggs and ham.

There are at least four players in this game, including Fox, and frankly I'm not sure whose property tag is on the mux in question. Whose ever it is, it is getting replaced today, Fedex willing.Did it arrive and get fixed yet? ;)

Did it arrive and get fixed yet? ;)

If it is there's no evidence of it yet, on the air at least. Still only KTTV 11-1, 2.

Perhaps Fedex was "unwilling" yesterday. ;)

On the serious side though replacing a multiplexer can be a large undertaking with a lot of potential technical snafus while trying to get it configured properly.

So my statement above is all in fun of course ... :)

Understand the Superbowl may/is going to be on KCBS-DT. One of the lower power stations. Need Sunday to be like a real cold day, or a medium day with a very cold wind, or a hot day, but very cold at ground level. So, may not be possible to view it over the air out here on the fringe. Darn.

Understand the Superbowl may/is going to be on KCBS-DT. One of the lower power stations. Need Sunday to be like a real cold day, or a medium day with a very cold wind, or a hot day, but very cold at ground level. So, may not be possible to view it over the air out here on the fringe. Darn.
1000 kw is lower power?

Guess Jewelry TV pays good money or something because the channel now appears on both:

31.10 AVX
57.10 JTV

I believe 31.10 is actually 57.10's signal, because 31.10 is coming in at channel 57.x's power level not 31.x's. I also noticed that a 31.9 is listed onscreen during the hourly breaks on 31.x, but there is nothing on-air on that channel.

1000 kw is lower power?
1000kW max, but with a screwy directional pattern that puts about 283kW towards Ventura, compared to say KTLA who puts 887kW in that direction.

Guess Jewelry TV pays good money or something because the channel now appears on both:

31.10 AVX
57.10 JTV

I believe 31.10 is actually 57.10's signal, because 31.10 is coming in at channel 57.x's power level not 31.x's. I also noticed that a 31.9 is listed onscreen during the hourly breaks on 31.x, but there is nothing on-air on that channel.

My TV says 57.10 uses physical channel 49 and 31.10 uses physical channel 51.

This means that KTTV/11 could use a UHF station to broadcast subchannel 11.3 once they get their mux problem fixed.

Bad PSIP on KAZA has 11.3 in the TVCT but not in the PAT.
Last time it was in the PAT but not in the TVCT.
Needs to be in both.

If it is there's no evidence of it yet, on the air at least. Still only KTTV 11-1, 2.

Perhaps Fedex was "unwilling" yesterday. ;)

On the serious side though replacing a multiplexer can be a large undertaking with a lot of potential technical snafus while trying to get it configured properly.

So my statement above is all in fun of course ... :):D Electronics are weird sometimes. Very picky and sometimes complex. I see it all the time! :(

1000kW max, but with a screwy directional pattern that puts about 283kW towards Ventura, compared to say KTLA who puts 887kW in that direction.

Part of the pattern weirdness is due to mechanical beam-tilt. What it looks like if the beam tilt is removed is on page 6 of the below.

https://licensing.fcc.gov/cdbs/CDBS_Attachment/getattachment.jsp?appn=101249567&qnum=5460&copynum=1&exhcnum=1

Ok, it's still a bit weird.

However, varying beam-tilts means a good portion of the power may be over or undershooting different areas. KCBS has 1.7 degree electrical and up to 1 degree mechanical beam-tilt.

Also, I believe that all FCC TV Query patterns are normalized for the horizontal plane, where none of us are actually located, unless we are up in an airplane or on another tall mountain.

Longley-Rice model includes a standardized antenna elevation pattern
that varies with beam tilt....although it isn't perfect:
http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/11500
http://www.tv-technology.com/article/11518

Just a quick update and as a reminder I have this Phillips Antenna
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Philips-Indoor-Outdoor-UHF-Digital-Analog-TV-Antenna/11019010

I have just installed it in the Attic and I am pulling a total of 85 Digital Channels. That is 20 more than my previous attempt at keeping it in a room.

All the channels are above 90% and a lot of them at a constant 100%. I am soo happy that I now have HD in all the tvs of the house with that little antenna!!!

Thanks for all your recommendations everyone.

Just a quick update and as a reminder I have this Phillips Antenna
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Philips-Indoor-Outdoor-UHF-Digital-Analog-TV-Antenna/11019010

I have just installed it in the Attic and I am pulling a total of 85 Digital Channels. That is 20 more than my previous attempt at keeping it in a room.

All the channels are above 90% and a lot of them at a constant 100%. I am soo happy that I now have HD in all the tvs of the house with that little antenna!!!

Thanks for all your recommendations everyone.

Congratulations on your successful results. Just be aware with the coming rainstorm you will temporarily lose some stations until your roof dries up. That's what happens to me.

Part of the pattern weirdness is due to mechanical beam-tilt. What it looks like if the beam tilt is removed is on page 6 of the below.

https://licensing.fcc.gov/cdbs/CDBS_Attachment/getattachment.jsp?appn=101249567&qnum=5460&copynum=1&exhcnum=1

Ok, it's still a bit weird.

However, varying beam-tilts means a good portion of the power may be over or undershooting different areas. KCBS has 1.7 degree electrical and up to 1 degree mechanical beam-tilt.

Also, I believe that all FCC TV Query patterns are normalized for the horizontal plane, where none of us are actually located, unless we are up in an airplane or on another tall mountain.
I'm going off the square of the relative field at 270° times the ERP. If someone wants to figure out the effect of beam tilt, then have fun; that's far too much math to fit on the back of a napkin :D.

Now that all the TV's in the house have OTA HD I can clearly say that my Panasonic Plasma, kicks my Samsung's LN52a750 booty.

Gianny- Congratulations on your work. Does it get VHF? If it doesn't then you may not be finished. The 18db amplifier is the solution. If you don't get VHF then you would add a combiner, then some rabbit ears with a reflector near the antenna you have.

Getting KCBS-DT perfectly this morning. Need the Sunday football game to be at 6 in the morning PST , while it is very cold here, and after the rain stopped. Need these conditions to get a reliable reception for KCBS-DT.

@VenturaTVViewer
I do get VHF, I get 9.1, 11.1. 13.1, those were the hardest to get a signal with the antenna in a room. KCOP would not even appear. Now it does and all the VHF and UHF are a constant 90% and 100%. Very stable image throughout.

for the info. Sounds like it's a good antenna for suburban areas. 18db helps for weaker stations. Interesting... Hmmmm.

I am in Orange county, CA.

About 9:30pm today channel 31-1 to 31-8 suddenly disappeared from my Samsung TV (my pany was ok). I also noticed channels 44-1 and 57-1 also disappeared (my pany was still ok on those channels).

After rescanning my Samsung I noticed ch31 is now ch23, ch44 is now ch51, and ch 57 became ch49. They all changed to their RF channel numbers.

I rescanned the Panasonic as well, and these three channels are also changed to their RF channel numbers.

Did anyone else notice this? And what happened? did the signal lose the virtual channel map? But how come it happened to the three stations at the same time?

Yeah, those channels move here as well. No idea why though. Maybe the Ulloa brothers were playing musical chairs.

I guess that since all three stations KSMV-LD/KVMD-DT, KXLA, and KJLA are all owned by the same folks (Ulloa family) maybe they're all supplied from the same PSIP computer system which seems to have crashed or otherwise malfunctioned.

...
After rescanning my Samsung I noticed ch31 is now ch23, ch44 is now ch51, and ch 57 became ch49. They all changed to their RF channel numbers.
...



I see exactly the same thing here on the Samsung STB. Evidently the PSIP data got messed up on all three stations. My Pioneer would require a rescan, which I don't want to do at this time, since I would probably lose any weak stations, like KLCS, if they are not coming in at the moment.

Interestingly, I had this same mapping problem with KBEH for several months, but only on the Pioneer. It would map KBEH to ch 24, so that its then two subchannels appeared as unidentified channels, interleaved between the corresponding subchannels of KVCR. At the same time that KBEH added 63.3 and 63.4, they also straightened out their PSIP, so that the Pioneer is now able to map it correctly to ch 63.

The three channels (channels 31, 44, and 57) are back to their original location as of 9am this morning.

Need help in Calabasas 91302.
Please see attached TV Fool Image for location details.

Intersted mainly in local digital (vhf and uhf) shown in the green and yellow area in TV Fool Image i.e. 2.1,4.1,5.1,7.1,9.1,11.1,13.1,28.1 KCET most of which according to tv fool are ~33 miles away.

1st story apartment (small ~1200 sqft) in 2 story apartment building with a private front and back yard with no attic.
May need to connect to 3 TVs eventually but right now would be happy with 1-2.

there is a three story building directly behind the 1st story apartment blocking in the direction of most of the stations.
there are two old DISH receivers mounted on side of tile roof that may be used (i.e. remove the DISH receiver and use the mounts). Prefer not to have to access the tile roof but can if it's the best option. How about mounting on pole in the front or back yard?


Prefer smaller and more aesthetic solution if possible.

I tried connecting to the big TV antenna in the garage. Now I should say when I had my first gen ATI All In Wonder card, I had to install an amp just to pick up most of the local analog channels and still got a snow in the weaker channels like 11 and 13.

Fast forward, I connected too it. Through the UHF only's amp, I get 2, 4+subs, 5 is weak or nothing and then all the other channels are non existent.

I'm thinking the problem is the wiring. Its old flat wire that's more than likely been here for 10-15-20 years.

Do you think its worth re-wiring?

I really need to solve this, Daytona 500 is this weekend and I want it in glorious FOX 1080i.

Rabbit with UHF Loop is somewhat effective as I said before, but I want solid green.

Should I rewire, use a "The Shack" $40 inline amp and pick up everything?

That Monoprice Antenna is calling me. Its the same style as my UHF Only and all my UHF signals come in the strongest with style antenna, it does do VHF as reported by other local Los Angeles/Orange County user reviews, since nobody is complaining of not getting the channels that are hard for me to get.

Maybe this old antenna just can't hack it with High-VHF channels?

Like I said 2 was strong, 4 and subs were strong, then got to 5 and nothing, etc, etc, etc, not even PBS...

Maybe its the combination of the 300ohm flat wire (that's what it is correct?) and the at least 10 years old Antenna?

I am just not sure what direction I want to go. - HELP!

Need help in Calabasas 91302.
Please see attached TV Fool Image for location details.

Intersted mainly in local digital (vhf and uhf) shown in the green and yellow area in TV Fool Image i.e. 2.1,4.1,5.1,7.1,9.1,11.1,13.1,28.1 KCET most of which according to tv fool are ~33 miles away.

1st story apartment (small ~1200 sqft) in 2 story apartment building with a private front and back yard with no attic.
May need to connect to 3 TVs eventually but right now would be happy with 1-2.

there is a three story building directly behind the 1st story apartment blocking in the direction of most of the stations.
there are two old DISH receivers mounted on side of tile roof that may be used (i.e. remove the DISH receiver and use the mounts). Prefer not to have to access the tile roof but can if it's the best option. How about mounting on pole in the front or back yard?


Prefer smaller and more aesthetic solution if possible.

Take a picture(s)

How far away is the apartment building? Are you on the ground floor? What is the angle from the top of the next apartment building to where the antenna will be. Is there a signal to work with? Wouldn't know until you get an antenna there. With refraction, signals bend. If the air at the top of the next apartment building is warmer than the air where the antenna is, then the signals drift down. It's the difference in temperature that causes the signal to drift down. Calabasas can tend to get a little warm, but if it's cool between the buildings there could be something there.

Other's might know more about refraction in the Valley and signal strengths.

Don't lose hope. Keep the faith. Get rid of paid cable and satellite services. You work too hard for the $.

Need help in Calabasas 91302.
Please see attached TV Fool Image for location details.

Interested mainly in local digital (vhf and uhf) shown in the green and yellow area in TV Fool Image i.e. 2.1,4.1,5.1,7.1,9.1,11.1,13.1,28.1 KCET most of which according to tv fool are ~33 miles away.

1st story apartment (small ~1200 sqft) in 2 story apartment building with a private front and back yard with no attic.
May need to connect to 3 TVs eventually but right now would be happy with 1-2.

there is a three story building directly behind the 1st story apartment blocking in the direction of most of the stations.
there are two old DISH receivers mounted on side of tile roof that may be used (i.e. remove the DISH receiver and use the mounts). Prefer not to have to access the tile roof but can if it's the best option. How about mounting on pole in the front or back yard?


Prefer smaller and more aesthetic solution if possible.
How "aesthetic"???? And as mentioned above, you'll just have to try and see what works....

Antennas Direct ClearStream4 is a good "aesthetic" choice for UHF and MAY also get Ch7-13:
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/TemporaryPage.html
An 8-Bay (e.g. CM4228HD, HD8800, DB8) is somewhat better on both UHF and Ch7-13.
[Note CM4228HD modification to improve Ch7-13 reception.]

But if you find you need to add a REAL Hi-VHF antenna, consider the Antennas Direct C5
or the AntennaCraft Y5-7-13 5-Element Yagi.

There are also some small Hi-VHF/UHF Combo antennas that may or may not work,
such as RCA ANT751 (aka EZHD), W-G HD1080 and CM2016. But UHF performance
isn't as good as the others above.

These may be sufficient to drive two TV's, but if not and for sure for 3 TV's,
add a Preamp, such as CM7777.

Looks like the Winegard GS2200 with wing, repeat with wing might work. Might call up the good folks at Winegard, or use their website: www. then Winegard.com and see what they think. They will give you ideas on their products.

In the winter, if there is reception probably best. Summer, challenging, not impossible. Wondering if winds blow through there from the ocean. Cold, cool is best at ground level. Shade from the buildings, might get reflection off your building, so you point the antenna 180 degrees from Mount Wilson towards your own building.

First I'd like to thank,
holl_ands
VenturaTVViewer

You gave me a lot of options to think about.
On your suggestion and with my previous experience with it (see below) I bought a w-g 1080HD at Frys today but it's missing the all important connector with balun, so i'm returning it to see if i can get another or if they can scavage the part from another open box 1080hd.

I will start small with what I can get at Frys hopefully, the 1080hd with full parts, and then expand to try some of the other options you folks were kind enough to list.

I've have had luck with the 1080hd at another location in Encino but that was only ~24 miles from most antenna sources versus ~33 miles now and that 1080hd was mounted on the flat roof of a three story building and powering a TV that is two stories and quite a bit of cabling down.
The reception in Encino was amazing, even in the recent storms I was able to get the full plethora of digital and HD, the only channel that had an issues is 13.1 My13 or whatever it's called during one recent stormy night when it failed to come in at all for just a while, then seemed to have some little gliches in the display. It's strange since I believe it's owned by FOX and coming from the same direction and distance and probably the same antenna location and yet 11.1/11.2 FOX HD/DTV were coming in great during that same storm. But other then that it's been a solid performer across channels and with no amplification.

I think this might be a challenge since driving around I don't see a single antenna installed anywhere in the entire area...

How far away is the apartment building? Are you on the ground floor? What is the angle from the top of the next apartment building to where the antenna will be. Is there a signal to work with? Wouldn't know until you get an antenna there. With refraction, signals bend. If the air at the top of the next apartment building is warmer than the air where the antenna is, then the signals drift down. It's the difference in temperature that causes the signal to drift down. Calabasas can tend to get a little warm, but if it's cool between the buildings there could be something there.

Other's might know more about refraction in the Valley and signal strengths.

Don't lose hope. Keep the faith. Get rid of paid cable and satellite services. You work too hard for the $.
How far away is the apartment building?
The three story apartment building is about 100 ft. away.
Are you on the ground floor?
Yes ground floor of a two story building.
What is the angle from the top of the next apartment building to where the antenna will be.
No sure, I would like to put it on a mast in the front or back yard to at least to try things out and then possible on the side of the roof if nothing works.
Is there a signal to work with?
Not sure yet.

Saw on another website back in 2004 someone from Calabasas reported reception. The antenna was on top of a hill. Hdtvpub.com is the website. You need to know about multipath, that's where signals come from different directions. Like if you were on the other side of the apartment, the three story one then the hill would give you the same signal from different peaks. So, do not know if you would need an antenna that rejects some signals, while allowing others, a more directional antenna.

Keep your receipts. Only buy, if you can return. Know the stores return policy. Keep the packaging for a while.

Saw on another website back in 2004 someone from Calabasas reported reception. The antenna was on top of a hill. Hdtvpub.com is the website. You need to know about multipath, that's where signals come from different directions. Like if you were on the other side of the apartment, the three story one then the hill would give you the same signal from different peaks. So, do not know if you would need an antenna that rejects some signals, while allowing others, a more directional antenna.

Keep your receipts. Only buy, if you can return. Know the stores return policy. Keep the packaging for a while.

Thanks VenturaTVViewer. I actually live in Calabasas but central Calabasas whereas the location described is off of Las Virgines.
Looks like he got great reception with a simple "old school" antenna according to the web site.

:confused:
On my travels today I stopped by at Costco and low and behold there was a display featuring the Clearstream 2 and I grabbed the last box standing there and ran towards the cashier (just kidding, but I was excited to try it just to see what comes in, even though it's not the CS4 recommended above).
I went home quite late and hooked it up to a 50' coax and just laid it on a chair in the backyard and it scanned about 50 channels.

On the chair I got CRYSTAL CLEAR RECEPTION of 2.1, 4.1,4.2,4.4,5.1,5.2,11.1,11.2,13.1,28.1,28.2, 28.3,28.4 and other channels, mostly foreign langs I don't care about. I did want to get 7.1 which oddly enough is the first listed and only "green" channel in the TV FOOL listings (see attached). Also I would like 9.1 and it didn't come it.

I raised the antenna about a foot and just had it laying on the wall above the chair and then I got CRYSTAL CLEAR RECEPTION OF 2.1, 4.1,4.2,4.4,5.1,5.2, 7.1, 9.1, ,28.1,28.2, 28.3,28.4 but 11.1/11.2 and 13.1 were missiing.

This is all very odd because the channels are coming from the same direction.
I am not sure if the next step is an amplifier, the CS4, another antenna.

WHAT TO DO NEXT?:confused:

:confused:
On my travels today I stopped by at Costco and low and behold there was a display featuring the Clearstream 2 and I grabbed the last box standing there and ran towards the cashier (just kidding, but I was excited to try it just to see what comes in, even though it's not the CS4 recommended above).
I went home quite late and hooked it up to a 50' coax and just laid it on a chair in the backyard and it scanned about 50 channels.

On the chair I got CRYSTAL CLEAR RECEPTION of 2.1, 4.1,4.2,4.4,5.1,5.2,11.1,11.2,13.1,28.1,28.2, 28.3,28.4 and other channels, mostly foreign langs I don't care about. I did want to get 7.1 which oddly enough is the first listed and only "green" channel in the TV FOOL listings (see attached). Also I would like 9.1 and it didn't come it.

I raised the antenna about a foot and just had it laying on the wall above the chair and then I got CRYSTAL CLEAR RECEPTION OF 2.1, 4.1,4.2,4.4,5.1,5.2, 7.1, 9.1, ,28.1,28.2, 28.3,28.4 but 11.1/11.2 and 13.1 were missiing.

This is all very odd because the channels are coming from the same direction.
I am not sure if the next step is an amplifier, the CS4, another antenna.

WHAT TO DO NEXT?:confused:

About the C2, gleaned both from published comments and from direct observation with a spectrum analyzer:

The antenna itself (loop section) is a UHF only antenna. For VHF reception, the orientation of the loops is largely irrelevant.

Through an engineering sleight-of-hand, the design of the internal balun uses the shield of the coax as the VHF reception element via feed-line radiation. Therefore, the positioning of the coax in the first several feet will have a tremendous effect on the reception of VHF channels. I found that a small loop (8-10") of coax that extends past the reflector and in the same plane as the reflector creates a more predictable VHF reception situation. A couple of zip-ties come in handy to secure the loop.

I had meant to experiment last fall with a "halo" enclosed in some PEX tubing I had laying around, but the combination of cold weather and the distance to any high-VHF stations (about 75 miles) meant I never got to it. The pieces of PEX are still in the bed of my truck....

FWIW, the C5, by itself, would likely work in your area based on your TVFool plot. However, the adjacent apartment building makes any forecast likely to be ineffective and only experimentation will tell you what actually will work in your specific location.

About the C2, gleaned both from published comments and from direct observation with a spectrum analyzer:

The antenna itself (loop section) is a UHF only antenna. For VHF reception, the orientation of the loops is largely irrelevant.

Through an engineering sleight-of-hand, the design of the internal balun uses the shield of the coax as the VHF reception element via feed-line radiation. Therefore, the positioning of the coax in the first several feet will have a tremendous effect on the reception of VHF channels. I found that a small loop (8-10") of coax that extends past the reflector and in the same plane as the reflector creates a more predictable VHF reception situation. A couple of zip-ties come in handy to secure the loop.

I had meant to experiment last fall with a "halo" enclosed in some PEX tubing I had laying around, but the combination of cold weather and the distance to any high-VHF stations (about 75 miles) meant I never got to it. The pieces of PEX are still in the bed of my truck....

FWIW, the C5, by itself, would likely work in your area based on your TVFool plot. However, the adjacent apartment building makes any forecast likely to be ineffective and only experimentation will tell you what actually will work in your specific location.
ProjectSHO89 thanks for the suggestions.
I was a little confused by the placement/construction of the loop or the halo, if you could provide a reference or illustration that would be helpful.

Getting KCBS-DT perfectly this morning. Need the Sunday football game to be at 6 in the morning PST , while it is very cold here, and after the rain stopped. Need these conditions to get a reliable reception for KCBS-DT.

I was reading about people using multiple separated antennas (spatial diversity) to improve their reception in multipath or signal fading conditions. They would switch between antennas to find the one that would produce reliably reception. I know this is extreme but have you considered this possiblity?

Maybe they got their mux problem fixed and will soon appear on KTTV/11.3

KTTV 11.3 is now up on the KAZA UHF physical channel. I hope this allows more folks to receive Fox 11 (though only in SD).

dtv4u

KTTV 11.3 is now up on the KAZA UHF physical channel. I hope this allows more folks to receive Fox 11 (though only in SD).Will KTTV do HD on another channel?

KTTV 11.3 is now up on the KAZA UHF physical channel. I hope this allows more folks to receive Fox 11 (though only in SD).

dtv4u

I see it on 47.5 as 480i but my tv also shows 16:9 aspect. Shouldn't it be broadcasted in 4:3 aspect? Right now the picture is squeezed horizontally.

Will KTTV do HD on another channel?
Yes, 11.1 is HD, but it's our own VHF; some folks have a hard time receiving it.

HD on another subchannel, i.e. 11.3, is unlikely due to lack of bandwidth.

dtv4u

I see it on 47.5 as 480i but my tv also shows 16:9 aspect. Shouldn't it be broadcasted in 4:3 aspect? Right now the picture is squeezed horizontally.
I think it should be SD 16:9, but I'm having a hard time seeing it in NY 8-)

Yes, 11.1 is HD, but it's our own VHF; some folks have a hard time receiving it.

HD on another subchannel, i.e. 11.3, is unlikely due to lack of bandwidth.Thanks.

I see it on 47.5 as 480i but my tv also shows 16:9 aspect. Shouldn't it be broadcasted in 4:3 aspect? Right now the picture is squeezed horizontally.

SiliconDust claims it's wide SD.

- Trip

Will KTTV do HD on another channel?

Mighty unlikely. Not enough bits available.

I think it should be SD 16:9, but I'm having a hard time seeing it in NY 8-)
My folks in LA confirm 11.3 is SD 16:9.

:confused:
On my travels today I stopped by at Costco and low and behold there was a display featuring the Clearstream 2 and I grabbed the last box standing there and ran towards the cashier (just kidding, but I was excited to try it just to see what comes in, even though it's not the CS4 recommended above).
I went home quite late and hooked it up to a 50' coax and just laid it on a chair in the backyard and it scanned about 50 channels.

On the chair I got CRYSTAL CLEAR RECEPTION of 2.1, 4.1,4.2,4.4,5.1,5.2,11.1,11.2,13.1,28.1,28.2, 28.3,28.4 and other channels, mostly foreign langs I don't care about. I did want to get 7.1 which oddly enough is the first listed and only "green" channel in the TV FOOL listings (see attached). Also I would like 9.1 and it didn't come it.

I raised the antenna about a foot and just had it laying on the wall above the chair and then I got CRYSTAL CLEAR RECEPTION OF 2.1, 4.1,4.2,4.4,5.1,5.2, 7.1, 9.1, ,28.1,28.2, 28.3,28.4 but 11.1/11.2 and 13.1 were missiing.

This is all very odd because the channels are coming from the same direction.
I am not sure if the next step is an amplifier, the CS4, another antenna.

WHAT TO DO NEXT?:confused:
Good luck relying on some sort of imbalance current running on the coax....
We call that very high SWR....which can kill DTV reception due to reflections
up and down the coax, looking like small delay multipath...which degrades the
digital Error Vector Magnitude (eye pattern)....with a delay that is usually
too small to be reduced by the adaptive equalizer.....[Search for "Bendov".]

Probably better to insert a "T" coax connector and dangle some wire off to one side....
And if it resembles a Hi-VHF Monopole, all the better.....

The Balun in the C2 strips out Ch7-13, but does NOT in the C4:
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/ClearStream4.html
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/TemporaryPage.html
However, note that neither comes even close to the CM4228HD....

Or bite the bullet and combine a Hi-VHF antenna with your UHF antenna.

4228HD's VHF performance is good, but the UHF performance isn't nearly as good as the original 4228. For the price, you're still better off with a Winegard HD7694P, even if it isn't as pretty as some of the others.

My folks in LA confirm 11.3 is SD 16:9.

The 16:9 SD looks good. I certainly like this approach better than cropped 4:3. Attached is a cap. The minor squeeze is a screen capture artifact and does not appear when watching 11-3.

It has sound as well, so all appears to be in order. I forgot to check if the sound is 5.1. I'm not too concerned about that, but I know someone who might be. ;)

Many thanks for the updates and for helping out OTA viewers!

Have there been any announcements to re-scan? I haven't see any, but I'm lucky to have a DTVPal DVR which automatically finds new channels. I don't know how many others do, however.

Mighty unlikely. Not enough bits available.

I believe KTTV/11 could add another 720p subchannel since KABC/7 already does that even though it affects the picture quality of their main channel. Remember 11.2 comes from KCOP/13 and 11.3 comes from KAZA/47 so KTTV has plenty of unused bits.

KTTV and KCOP were bad tonight (Dollhouse had a lot of glitches). :(Hmm, they seem stable now. I wonder if it was related to KTTV's MUX issue.

I believe KTTV/11 could add another 720p subchannel since KABC/7 already does that even though it affects the picture quality of their main channel.

Just my opinion, but I think KABC has conclusively proven that you CAN'T have two 720p subchannels and get away with it. Anyone who can tolerate watching 7-2 has considerably more forgiving eyes than I do.

Hmm, they seem stable now. I wonder if it was related to KTTV's MUX issue.
No, the mux issue was at KAZA and it has been replaced.

Just my opinion, but I think KABC has conclusively proven that you CAN'T have two 720p subchannels and get away with it. Anyone who can tolerate watching 7-2 has considerably more forgiving eyes than I do.

I totally agree! Also 7.1 suffers from this ill-advised "experiment".

I totally agree! Also 7.1 suffers from this ill-advised "experiment".

They would be better off running 7.2 as 16:9 SD.

The 16:9 SD looks good. I certainly like this approach better than cropped 4:3. Attached is a cap. The minor squeeze is a screen capture artifact and does not appear when watching 11-3.

It has sound as well, so all appears to be in order. I forgot to check if the sound is 5.1. I'm not too concerned about that, but I know someone who might be. ;)

Many thanks for the updates and for helping out OTA viewers!

Have there been any announcements to re-scan? I haven't see any, but I'm lucky to have a DTVPal DVR which automatically finds new channels. I don't know how many others do, however.

I'm not getting any sound from the new KTTV sub-channel 11-3/KAZA RF 47.5. at the moment.

And as a minor annoyance here I guess in the design of my Samsung TV the the aspect ratio screen format for each off-air DTV sub-channel cannot be set independently from one another and defaults to 16:9 or 4:3 for either an HD or SD received signal resolution.

Therefore when I manually set KTTV 11-3 for widescreen to properly display its 16:9 AR it stretches all other received SD sub-channels to 16:9 as well. And the reverse happens when I try and set any SD channel back to 4:3, as the KTTV 11-3 16:9 SD picture will revert to squished at 4:3. :rolleyes:

I'm not getting any sound from the new KTTV sub-channel 11-3/KAZA RF 47.5. at the moment.

Confirmed. No sound right now on 11-3...

They would be better off running 7.2 as 16:9 SD.

Exactly! Since they are running (or trying to run) HD, it should be 16:9, rather than cropped to 4:3.

Subchannel 11.3 is coming in fine- but there is no audio!

Past
11.1 Channel 11 weak tranmitter
11.2 Channel 13 stong transmitter
13.1 Channel 13 strong transmitter

Present
11.1 Channel 13 strong transmitter
11.2 Channel 13 strong transmitter
11.3 Channel 11 weak transmitter
13.1 Channel 13 stong transmitter

Future?
11.1 Channel 13 strong transmitter
13.1 Channel 13 strong transmitter
For Sale Channel 11 weak transmitter?

Past
11.1 Channel 11 weak tranmitter
11.2 Channel 13 stong transmitter
13.1 Channel 13 strong transmitter

Present
11.1 Channel 13 strong transmitter
11.2 Channel 13 strong transmitter
11.3 Channel 11 weak transmitter
13.1 Channel 13 stong transmitter

Future?
11.1 Channel 13 strong transmitter
13.1 Channel 13 strong transmitter
For Sale Channel 11 weak transmitter?

I'm confused about your list of present transmitters.

As of today:

11.1 is using transmitter 11??
11.2 is using transmitter 13
11.3 is using transmitter 47??
13.1 is using transmitter 13

In the future 11.1 should still be using transmitter 11 ??

Please clarify. thanks

It just looks like there is a transition going on to use the channel 13 tower for both channel 11 & 13 broadcasts and may no longer need to use the channel 11 tower in the future.

It just looks like there is a transition going on to use the channel 13 tower for both channel 11 & 13 broadcasts and may no longer need to use the channel 11 tower in the future.

Not gonna happen. (Barring some major regulatory or technological change, natch.)

Not gonna happen. (Barring some major regulatory or technological change, natch.)
You have it right, Narkspud.

dtv4u

Analog low power transmitter in Ventura Avenue Area. Still dark.

Did anyone have signal problem with KABC7 tonight or just me during Grey's Anatomy hour? I had a lot of errors recorded, but it was fine at the end: http://pastie.org/821390 (time stamps aren't accurate). Even my dTV Pal had issues, but not too bad.

dtv4u: Thanks for the clarification. :)

Did anyone have signal problem with KABC7 tonight or just me? I had a lot of errors recorded: http://pastie.org/821390 (time stamps aren't accurate). Even my dTV Pal had issues.

dtv4u: Thanks for the clarification. :)

I'm going to work on it this weekend.

But I'm picking up 9 now interestingly enough. I thought it was VHF not UHF...

I'm going to work on it this weekend.

But I'm picking up 9 now interestingly enough. I thought it was VHF not UHF...Eh? Did you reply to the wrong post?

And whomever the OP was actually replying to, channel 9 (KCAL) is on VHF-hi band.

We think PSIP channel 11.3 KTTV SD 16:9 is stable now on RF channel 47. Is anyone able to receive this UHF signal that was unable to pickup 11.1 off-air? We are using this UHF gap-filler to provide coverage until we can get KTTV RF channel 11 up to its full authorized power of 115,000 watts, later this year.

We're curious if you can receive any combination of PSIP channels 11.1, 11.2, and/or 11.3 since each is coming from a different transmitter at a (slightly) different location on Mt Wilson.

Thanks for any signal reports.

dtv4u

We're curious if you can receive any combination of PSIP channels 11.1, 11.2, and/or 11.3 since each is coming from a different transmitter at a (slightly) different location on Mt Wilson.

Thanks for any signal reports.

dtv4u

I live on the border of Anaheim and Yorba Linda southeast of Mt. Wilson. My view of Mt. Wilson is blocked by a hill. TVFool.com says the three subchannels will be very difficult to receive at my location because of the blockage. However, I am happy to report that I can receive all three subchannels loud and clear (99.94%) with separate VHF and UHF antennas in my attic.

We think PSIP channel 11.3 KTTV SD 16:9 is stable now on RF channel 47. Is anyone able to receive this UHF signal that was unable to pickup 11.1 off-air? We are using this UHF gap-filler to provide coverage until we can get KTTV RF channel 11 up to its full authorized power of 115,000 watts, later this year.

We're curious if you can receive any combination of PSIP channels 11.1, 11.2, and/or 11.3 since each is coming from a different transmitter at a (slightly) different location on Mt Wilson.

Thanks for any signal reports.

dtv4u

All sub-channels coming in very strong here at my location in So. LA about 20 mi. SW of Mt Wilson.

Two story residence with a Winegard HD7697P VHF-hi/UHF directional aimed at the mountain.

11.3 is strongest for me right now. No dropouts and has the correct aspect ratio.
11.2 is weaker with very little dropout but has an aspect ratio of 4:3 stretched to 16:9.
11.1 is dropping out a lot right now.

Attic antennas are Y10-7-13 and CM4228 pointed at 333 true from 107 miles away.

No surprises here in Tustin. All three are loud and clear on the shared VHF-UHF antenna on the roof of the apartment building (2 stories).

11-2 is correctly formatted as 4:3.

All three, 11.1, 11.2 and 11.3 are also rock solid here in the Porter Ranch area. A friend of mine, who lives in a Sherman Oaks apartment could not get ch 11 with an indoor antenna at all until now, and is very happy to be finally getting it now on 11.3.

I can receive 11.3. I cannot receive 11.1 or 11.2.

I am in a fringe area and use a 10' UHF antenna on the roof with a preamplifier.

I cannot receive 7, 9, or 13. Until about 6 months ago I used to get 7 and 9. Adding a large VHF antenna would not be easy.

Picking up 11.3, not 11.1 or 11.2. Due to the transmitting location being on the eastern front, or eastern side of Mount Wilson. Wondering if a picture, or somekind of pictorial could be posted of the three transmitters to show their locations on the hill.

Really like seeing 11.3 Welcome addition out here on the fringe.

70 Miles, 500 foot hill, using refraction.

11.1, .2, .3 available here but only on my TV direct. TiVo has only 11.1 and 11.2. May have to rescan to add 11.3 but the TV has a better tuner than the TiVo so not sure that would help.

Isn't KAZA on UHF 47?

I can receive 11.3. I cannot receive 11.1 or 11.2.

I am in a fringe area and use a 10' UHF antenna on the roof with a preamplifier.

I cannot receive 7, 9, or 13. Until about 6 months ago I used to get 7 and 9. Adding a large VHF antenna would not be easy.

The YA-1713 is only 3 pounds.

The YA-1713 is only 3 pounds.

That is what I am using here also, and I get very solid reception on all of the VHF stations. GGA really needs to get something like this; you really can't expect a UHF antenna to pick up VHF stations, even in a very favorable location.

Thanks for any signal reports.

dtv4u

Located in NE Pasadena, on the west edge of the Sierra Madre shadow. RF 11 and 13 are iffy, usually OK in the daytime but break up at night. Using a DIY VHF loop with reflector. 13 falls off 1st, so putting 11.2 on 13 doesn't help me get Fox. KAZA RF 47 seems to be badly shadowed here, worse than just about any of the Mt. Wilson UHFs. So I can't see 11.3 either.

Suggestion to the engineers at 11/13: take a look at KABC-7's transmitter setup. They are always rock-solid. There may be a polarization factor in there that really helps out on edge-diffraction reception. Whatever they are doing, it works - much better than 11 or 13!.

Is KJLA putting out a signal onto 23.4? Vietnamese Station appears to be on RF channel 49 which would be KJLA's territory.

Is anyone able to get KVCR tonight? I get 0 signal in Signal Hill and had 95 signal strength yesterday on my media center PC.

11.1, .2, .3 available here but only on my TV direct. TiVo has only 11.1 and 11.2. May have to rescan to add 11.3 but the TV has a better tuner than the TiVo so not sure that would help.

Isn't KAZA on UHF 47?
Yes, KAZA is on RF channel 47. We are inserting 11.3 onto their transport stream temporarily, until we are able to increase power at KTTV on RF channel 11.

dtv4u

We think PSIP channel 11.3 KTTV SD 16:9 is stable now on RF channel 47. Is anyone able to receive this UHF signal that was unable to pickup 11.1 off-air? We are using this UHF gap-filler to provide coverage until we can get KTTV RF channel 11 up to its full authorized power of 115,000 watts, later this year.

We're curious if you can receive any combination of PSIP channels 11.1, 11.2, and/or 11.3 since each is coming from a different transmitter at a (slightly) different location on Mt Wilson.

Thanks for any signal reports.

dtv4u
Thanks to all for your reception reports!

dtv4u

Picking up 11.3, not 11.1 or 11.2. Due to the transmitting location being on the eastern front, or eastern side of Mount Wilson. Wondering if a picture, or somekind of pictorial could be posted of the three transmitters to show their locations on the hill.

Really like seeing 11.3 Welcome addition out here on the fringe.

70 Miles, 500 foot hill, using refraction.
Would love to post such a diagram or photo, but I am not able to do so. Sorry.

dtv4u

Here is a .pdf Google pic of the KTTV tower location and the KAZA tower location. It is very small and difficult to read but Mt. Wilson peak is in lower right and the KTTV is just above and to the left. KAZA is up the road a half mile.

Here is a llink to some interesting maps on the FCC website showing LA area stations digital vs. analog coverage. Most are from a couple of years ago.

FYI.

http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/maps_report_0609/Los_Angeles_CA.pdf

www.TVFool.com (and www.FMFool.com) have some *.kmz TOWER files that can be downloaded.
Double click on file to load into GoogleEarth for display. [Below jpegs are looking due North.]
Here are views of Mt Wilson and nearby Mt Harvard (not all stations are viewable at the same time):

Blocked by a massive 3 story complex, large trees, multiple solid conrete fences, another row of trees, sits a small Clearstream 2 antenna on a five foot mast directly in the ground well below the sidewalk level of the complex behind it. The antenna is connected to a 15 ft quad shielded cable which goes to a motorola signal booster and provides crystal clear reception of the following digital channels:

2.1, 4.1, 4.2, 4.3, 4.4, 5.1, 5.2, 7.1, 7.2, 7.3, 9.1, 11.1, 11.3, 18.1-18.8, 22.1, 28.1-28.4, 30.1-30.3, 34.1, 40.1-40.5, 45.1, 46.1-46.2, 52.1, 54.1,54.2, 56.1, 62.1-62.3, 63.1-63.4

The only channel missing that I want is 13 aka 13.1.

Why no lucky 13?

Blocked by a massive 3 story complex, large trees, multiple solid conrete fences, another row of trees, sits a small Clearstream 2 antenna on a five foot mast directly in the ground well below the sidewalk level of the complex behind it. The antenna is connected to a 15 ft quad shielded cable which goes to a motorola signal booster and provides crystal clear reception of the following digital channels:

2.1, 4.1, 4.2, 4.3, 4.4, 5.1, 5.2, 7.1, 7.2, 7.3, 9.1, 11.1, 11.3, 18.1-18.8, 22.1, 28.1-28.4, 30.1-30.3, 34.1, 40.1-40.5, 45.1, 46.1-46.2, 52.1, 54.1,54.2, 56.1, 62.1-62.3, 63.1-63.4

The only channel missing that I want is 13 aka 13.1.

Why no lucky 13?

Because you still have a UHF antenna and haven't yet found an orientation of the coax that will permit it to possibly pick up the last of your high-VHF channels.

You can continue to experiment with the coax or upgrade to a different antenna.

From retiredengineer to consider multiple antennas. Thought about it, but towards LA from this area only a two degree difference. So, a rotor would be what would be used. Or, an antenna that has wider beamwidth. More interested in VHF, i.e. Lakers, Lottery, News, Traffic, Weather, Sports, etc. Going to try rabbit ears with 10db amplification, at some point in the future. Will see. Just happy to get 11.3 Fox. So, enjoy the new channel! No changes for a while.

Because you still have a UHF antenna and haven't yet found an orientation of the coax that will permit it to possibly pick up the last of your high-VHF channels.

You can continue to experiment with the coax or upgrade to a different antenna.

I hear what you are saying about the coax but I think it was the location and orientation of the antenna that has more to do with the reception and of course the motorola signal booster definitely improved things.
I had experimented with different length coax runs and different positions and orientations of coax as suggested by folks on here and other antenna sites but it had no effect on the reception or the channels.

From retiredengineer to consider multiple antennas. Thought about it, but towards LA from this area only a two degree difference. So, a rotor would be what would be used. Or, an antenna that has wider beamwidth. More interested in VHF, i.e. Lakers, Lottery, News, Traffic, Weather, Sports, etc. Going to try rabbit ears with 10db amplification, at some point in the future. Will see. Just happy to get 11.3 Fox. So, enjoy the new channel! No changes for a while.

A rotor may not work because the antenna may be in a dead zone (like the commercial) for that channel. Previous posts have said there are hot and cold zones so the purpose of using multiple widely separated antennas is the hope they will not all be in a dead zone at the same time.

Maybe you can have multiple rabbit ears antennas to keep the cost down.

What is a "rotor"?

What is a "rotor"?

He means an outdoor or roof mount antenna "rotator" such as sold here;

http://search.solidsignal.com/?q=antenna+rotators&search.x=0&search.y=0&site=new&new_search=1&cart=0

http://carney-associates.com/CCC/Antenna1He means an outdoor or roof mount antenna "rotator" such as sold here;

http://search.solidsignal.com/?q=antenna+rotators&search.x=0&search.y=0&site=new&new_search=1&cart=0

Like that idea. Great picture of a setup!

I have a challenge of sorts for those with experience working with signals in the foothills. An experienced installer told me this one is a tough nut to crack thanks to my location. My goal is to use the new Sezmi service which relies on digital signal from KRCA, KOCE, and KAZA for encrypted premium content. What would you do?

My TV Fool Data:
Itemid=29&q=id%3d27eea6b23bc74d
(I'm new, so I can't post URLs)
A nearby address is Mary's Market at 561 Woodland Ave


I've got a 4228HD plus a CM-7777 preamp driving the 50ft of coax I previously used for my DirecTV dish. The 4228HD antenna is pointed in the specified direction and is tilted up to point just above the terrain, roughly 20 degrees from horizontal. The antenna is resting on the surface of the roof for now, and that seems to have no impact on signal. I receive only KVCR 24.1-4 regardless of antenna direction. No doubt that this location has multipath problems, but I had hoped that the 4228HD was directional enough to solve that problem.

My favorite theory was that the preamp was too big for the job. No doubt the CM-7777 is probably overkill, even considering the coax and barrel connectors of unknown quality and condition. Tonight I took a receiver up on the roof and tested the antenna without the preamp. I used a Hauppauge 950Q USB tuner on my laptop connected to the antenna with about 6 foot of coax. Digital channel scan shows just channels 24.1 through 24.4. Shoot, there goes my preamp theory.

Would you recommend a more directional Yagi?
Are the signals in this area just too weak?
Do I need to hunt for hot spots?
Is this antenna underperforming compared to capabilities?
Would a smaller preamp make the difference?

Any advice is appreciated.
Thanks!

We think PSIP channel 11.3 KTTV SD 16:9 is stable now on RF channel 47. Is anyone able to receive this UHF signal that was unable to pickup 11.1 off-air?

Valley Village (Laurel Cyn at Magnolia) 1st floor apartment with RCA UHF loop indoor antenna: I get 11.3 but neither of 11.1 or 11.2.

I have a challenge of sorts for those with experience working with signals in the foothills. An experienced installer told me this one is a tough nut to crack thanks to my location. My goal is to use the new Sezmi service which relies on digital signal from KRCA, KOCE, and KAZA for encrypted premium content. What would you do?



John,

I suspect your problem is two-fold:

First, there is a ridgeline about a mile north of you that blocks direct line-of-sight to Wilson. If there were signal directed towards your specific location, its direct path is blocked.

Secondly, and I believe more importantly, the steep depression angle from Wilson to your elevation (from 1700m - 1850m ASL to about 350 m ASL in only 3-4 miles) means that the signal is simply going over your head with little of it directed downward steeply enough to be usable at your location.

If that installer can come by with his hand-held spectrum analyzer, it would answer a lot of questions.

What's promising is that you are getting one station. There is hope!



No, it isn't promising based on the reception of that station. Go look at where it transmits from. It does not come from Wilson.

Go back and READ my post above regarding the terrain and elevation differential.

Just as the main guns of a battleship cannot engage a small target on the water close-in, signals from the antenna usually do not go downward at steep angles in the vertical axis unless the transmitter antenna was ordered with "null-fill" or has significant beam tilt in the vertical axis.

Feel free to use the "edit" function instead of "Post Reply" whenever a new random thought pops into your head....

...Are the signals in this area just too weak?
Do I need to hunt for hot spots?...


Probably, and yes.
As noted above, your problem isn't multi-path, it's "no-path." You are deep in the Sierra Madre Mt. Wilson shadow. The numbers in your Tvfool report are pretty miserable. I am a few miles west of you, on the edge of the shadow zone. The only way I got any decent set of signals was by hunting for the hot spots, both on the roof and on the ground. If you can march around your property with your laptop and antenna (maybe you need an assistant), you will likely find some of the stations coming in and out. However, the particular ones you are interested in are not very good performers, so I wouldn't get your hopes up that this Sezmi service will work out.

CanyonJohn:

FYI: Sezmi is carried (will be carried?) by FIVE L.A. stations. So if you miss one or two stations, you
won't get those sub-channels. I don't know whats on what:
http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=sezmi

TVFool assumes a "standard" antenna pattern wrt elevation angle coverage DOWN to you,
which may be worse (or better) than what those three stations have in reality, so the
signal strengths may be considerably worse (or better) than indicated. Whatever...looks bad...

You don't have any strong, nearby TV stations to worry about overload, so CM7777 is a good choice
for UHF. However, KSSE-FM is only a mile away, which could cause second harmonic interference
problems on Ch13 if passed through a Preamp. Hence the "best choice" would be a Preamp
that only amplified UHF freqs, with pass-thru for VHF.....if you even have half a chance....

CM4228HD is an excellent choice for UHF, although it is weak on Hi-VHF.
Try a 360-degree sweep with the antenna, looking for a reflection off the surrounding mountains,
or perhaps SOUTH towards the hill behind Hacienda Heights. And location, location, location.
Getting it as high as possible will also help...

PS: As indicated on your TVFool results KVCR (24.1) is coming from the opposite direction....

I have a challenge of sorts for those with experience working with signals in the foothills. An experienced installer told me this one is a tough nut to crack thanks to my location. My goal is to use the new Sezmi service which relies on digital signal from KRCA, KOCE, and KAZA for encrypted premium content. What would you do?

I would read some of the reviews from the Sezmi pilot program participants before committing to that goal. ;)

Thanks for the good advice. I'll do a systematic sweep of the surrounding hills just in case I'm able to get a good reflection. I really wish I had a signal analyzer to really determine what signal is present at my location. Oh well, I knew it wouldn't be easy.

FYI: Sezmi is carried (will be carried?) by FIVE L.A. stations. So if you miss one or two stations, you won't get those sub-channels.

So far as I know, Sezmi is currently operating on all five of those signals.

- Trip

Just as the main guns of a battleship cannot engage a small target on the water close-in, signals from the antenna usually do not go downward at steep angles in the vertical axis unless the transmitter antenna was ordered with "null-fill" or has significant beam tilt in the vertical axis.

The analogy I like to use is a lighthouse, where it doesn't seem very bright close to the source. It is designed to be visible to relatively distant ships.

TV Fool seems to be ignoring the ~14 degree elevation angle. So, using KAZA as an example, instead of ~344kW being directed to the Sierra Madre location, it is probably closer to 2kW. That, along with the ridge blocking LOS is probably going to be too much to overcome unless a reflection source can be found.

Most LA transmitters are optimized for 2-3 degree beam-tilt, or about 20-30 miles out.

Have a look at page 15 of the following for KAZA's elevation pattern:

https://licensing.fcc.gov/cdbs/CDBS_Attachment/getattachment.jsp?appn=100996366&qnum=5420&copynum=1&exhcnum=1

The others are likely to be similar.

Also, I have seen no indication that Sezmi will accept an external antenna, relying on the one in the unit itself. Far from ideal.

They wouldn't take me even though I have moderate to good signals as I am (apparently) not in one of their "green zones."

Just as the main guns of a battleship cannot engage a small target on the water close-in, signals from the antenna usually do not go downward at steep angles in the vertical axis unless the transmitter antenna was ordered with "null-fill" or has significant beam tilt in the vertical axis.

I believe they would use an antenna with "null-fill" which is possible. In Chicago, they mounted an UHF antenna on top of the Sears tower (1454 feet tall). Without null-fill, most of the energy would end up in Lake Michigan. The press release from Andrew states there is plenty of null-fill for optimum coverage in downtown Chicago.

There may be hope for CanyonJohn.

Also, I have seen no indication that Sezmi will accept an external antenna, relying on the one in the unit itself. Far from ideal.

It will. But it needs solid signals.

I believe they would use an antenna with "null-fill" which is possible. In Chicago, they mounted an UHF antenna on top of the Sears tower (1454 feet tall). Without null-fill, most of the energy would end up in Lake Michigan. The press release from Andrew states there is plenty of null-fill for optimum coverage in downtown Chicago.

There may be hope for CanyonJohn.

Except CJ is in Los Angeles, not Chicago. Plus, he is physically blocked by the mountain. Just as lighthouse that is set back from the edge of a cliff cannot illuminate the water's edge at the base of the cliff, a transmitter tower that is back from the edge of the mountain ridge cannot get a signal directly to the base of the mountain except by reflection or nominal diffraction.

Unless the specifications of the transmitting antenna are actually known, it's not very useful to speculate as to what may or may not be in use other than to note the possibilities.

Edit: Read Falcon's post with the link after posting above. Given that the signal at that angle is directed at 100s of meters of stone, you can be sure that no signal is going through the mountain.

I see that Sezmi has launched officially now: http://www.sezmi.com/

Quite honestly, the cable channel lineup they've settled on looks really attractive to me. I would strongly consider this service if it was available to me. Here's the lineup, by the way: http://www.sezmi.com/_media/images/cable-channels.jpg

- Trip

I see that Sezmi has launched officially now: http://www.sezmi.com/

Quite honestly, the cable channel lineup they've settled on looks really attractive to me. I would strongly consider this service if it was available to me. Here's the lineup, by the way: http://www.sezmi.com/_media/images/cable-channels.jpgOne of my cyberfriends has this service and is/was on the pilot test program. He likes it so far.

I see that Sezmi has launched officially now: http://www.sezmi.com/

Quite honestly, the cable channel lineup they've settled on looks really attractive to me. I would strongly consider this service if it was available to me. Here's the lineup, by the way: http://www.sezmi.com/_media/images/cable-channels.jpg

The one channel suspiciously absent (besides ESPN which I completely understand) is USA. Could Sezmi drop Bravo for it since they are both NBC/Uni properties? Bravo is useless. Otherwise that lineup has most of the big players on cable that the majority of people watch with regularly. Not too shabby.

I see USA in the lower left of the lineup image.

Edit: I finally was able to enter my address into Sezmi. And what does it say? That I can get my local channels, web content and on-demand movies for $5/mo. Wow. :rolleyes:

Sezmi Select - No mention of other channels.

Continuing to the purchase screen just refers me to Best Buy. No other options were listed.

USA is available.

What is a "rotor"?
The old gray beard hams among us used to call "antenna rotators" by the shortened jargon "rotor." We knew what was meant, then and now 8-)

dtv4u

Attached is screen cap of the Sezmi results at my condo. From what I have since found out, the local channels should be listed.

So, are they predicting that I would get no OTA channels? If that's the case, it's more conservative than Antennaweb! As it is, I can receive all Mt. Wilson/Mt. Harvard DTV stations reliably (except KNLA-LD).

The old gray beard hams among us used to call "antenna rotators" by the shortened jargon "rotor." We knew what was meant, then and now 8-)

dtv4u

I was licensed in 1956 but never heard them called that.

K6RU (ex K0HTP, KB0H, VS6II, NZ6Q)

I'm in Signal Hill. I recently placed an outdoor antenna on the roof of my condo (which has direct line of sight to almost anywhere) and swung it so it points about 1/2 way between Mt. Wilson and Riverside. This resulted in me getting decent signal strength on Mt. Wilson stations and yet I was also able to get KVCR 24 from the Riverside area with decent signal strength.

One thing I immediately noticed, though, was that I would lose KVCR at night. And if I would turn the antenna on the roof to the point where I would get KVCR, I would then lose several stations located on Mt. Wilson.

Again, this only happens at night. During the daytime, I can get KVCR and the Mt. Wilson stations no matter which way I point my antenna.

Anyone want to explain why I get less signal strength once the sun goes down? I always thought the opposite was true -- at night time, for example, I can get a ton of AM stations that I can't get during the day.

Thanks!

I'm in Signal Hill. I recently placed an outdoor antenna on the roof of my condo (which has direct line of sight to almost anywhere) and swung it so it points about 1/2 way between Mt. Wilson and Riverside. This resulted in me getting decent signal strength on Mt. Wilson stations and yet I was also able to get KVCR 24 from the Riverside area with decent signal strength.

One thing I immediately noticed, though, was that I would lose KVCR at night. And if I would turn the antenna on the roof to the point where I would get KVCR, I would then lose several stations located on Mt. Wilson.

Again, this only happens at night. During the daytime, I can get KVCR and the Mt. Wilson stations no matter which way I point my antenna.

Anyone want to explain why I get less signal strength once the sun goes down? I always thought the opposite was true -- at night time, for example, I can get a ton of AM stations that I can't get during the day.

Thanks!

What antenna are you using?

How about posting an exact TVfool plot?

I'm using a Radio Shack outdoor vhf / uhf antenna. I forget the exact model number. It is a directional antenna.

TV Fool shows the following. Note all the stations are in green. All the Mt. Wilson stations show a magnetic compass heading of 359 degrees, and KVCR shows a compass heading of 65 degrees.

If I turn the antenna to 65 degrees I get KVCR at night at great signal strengths (80%+). But I lose some Mt. Wilson stations like KOCE.

If I turn the antenna to about 40 degrees I get KVCR and all Mt. Wilson stations during the day, but lose KVCR at night.

If I turn the antenna directly to Mt. Wilson, of course, I get all Mt. Wilson perfectly (95 - 100% signal strength) but get no lock at all on KVCR during day or night.

GREEN:
KBEH 24 (63.1) Ind 29.1 LOS 60.0
KTLA-DT 31 (5.1) CW 29.9 LOS 58.2
KJLA-DT 49 (57.1) Ind 29.9 LOS 57.0
KXLA-DT 51 (44.1) Ind 29.9 LOS 56.9
KTBN-TV 33 (40.1) Ind 29.8 LOS 56.1
KOCE-DT 48 (50.1) PBS 29.9 LOS 56.1
KDOC-DT 32 (56.1) Ind 29.9 LOS 54.4
KVEA-DT 39 (52.1) TEL 29.1 LOS 54.1
KNBC-DT 36 (4.1) NBC 29.9 LOS 53.5
KTTV 11 Fox 29.8 LOS 53.3
KAZA-DT 47 (54.1) Azt 30.0 LOS 52.9
KCBS-DT 43 (2.1) CBS 30.0 LOS 52.9
KABC-DT 7 (7.1) ABC 29.9 LOS 52.4
KRCA 35 (62.1) Ind 29.1 LOS 50.9
KFTR-DT 29 (46.1) Tel 29.9 LOS 50.7
KVCR-DT 26 (24.1) PBS 52.2 LOS 49.8
KCOP-DT 13 (13.1) MyN 29.8 LOS 48.9
KCAL-DT 9 (9.1) Ind 30.0 LOS 48.7
KLCS-DT 41 (58.1) PBS 29.8 LOS 48.6
KMEX-TV 34 (34.1) Uni 29.9 LOS 48.2
KCET 28 (28.1) PBS 29.8 LOS 48.1
KSCI 18 (18.1) Ind 29.1 LOS 45.0
KWHY-DT 42 (22.1) Ind 29.1 LOS 44.0
KSMV-LP 23 (31.1) 29.9 LOS 41.6

YELLOW:
KPXN-DT 38 (30.1) ION 29.0 LOS 34.8
KTAV-LP 46 29.9 LOS 34.4
KFLA-LD 8 (8.1) 29.9 LOS 33.0
KVMD-DT 23 (31.1) Ind 79.7 LOS 29.4
KNLA-LD 50 (20.1) 29.9 LOS 23.7
KLAU-LD 66 (45.1) 42.9 LOS 17.2
KILA-LP 8 (51.1) 52.4 LOS 16.0
KPMR-DT 21 (38.1) Uni 114.2 1Edge -3.4
KSKJ-CA 45 (45.1) 37.5 2Edge -9.1
KTBV-LD 12 41.3 LOS -12.1
KEYT-DT 27 (3.1) ABC 114.1 2Edge -15.0

KJLA (57, physical 49) has re-added their 10th subchannel, and to insure maximum confusion, has mapped it to 23-4.

PSID calls it AVX, upper left of the screen calls it VNBC, and lower right has an illegible logo with an apple on it.

Resolution is 480x480 (!), and video bitrate is 800 kbps to 1.4 Mbps. Picture quality is about what you'd expect.

I'm in Signal Hill. I recently placed an outdoor antenna on the roof of my condo (which has direct line of sight to almost anywhere) and swung it so it points about 1/2 way between Mt. Wilson and Riverside. This resulted in me getting decent signal strength on Mt. Wilson stations and yet I was also able to get KVCR 24 from the Riverside area with decent signal strength.

One thing I immediately noticed, though, was that I would lose KVCR at night. And if I would turn the antenna on the roof to the point where I would get KVCR, I would then lose several stations located on Mt. Wilson.

Again, this only happens at night. During the daytime, I can get KVCR and the Mt. Wilson stations no matter which way I point my antenna.

Anyone want to explain why I get less signal strength once the sun goes down? I always thought the opposite was true -- at night time, for example, I can get a ton of AM stations that I can't get during the day.

Thanks!

Does your location on Signal Hill provide a clear view towards San Diego? I would be curious if you can receive
anything from San Diego.

The one channel suspiciously absent (besides ESPN which I completely understand) is USA. Could Sezmi drop Bravo for it since they are both NBC/Uni properties? Bravo is useless. Otherwise that lineup has most of the big players on cable that the majority of people watch with regularly. Not too shabby.

Except for the fact none of them (CATV chs. that is) are or I'll wager, "can ever" be expected in HD with the current bandwidth limited broadcast schema Sezmi is using to distribute them. ;)

But still a good deal nonetheless price-wise for what you can get, especially if there is indeed an external antenna option should this allegedly "Powerful Antenna System in a Box" device they use end up not being so powerful after all for some people.

Just FYI ... there is a topic for the Sezmi here. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17996699)

;)

The old gray beard hams among us used to call "antenna rotators" by the shortened jargon "rotor." We knew what was meant, then and now 8-)

dtv4u

Thanks for the memory reminder. I had one of those back in the days.

(WA6QGG, ex WA0BKY. Was first licensed in 1961 as WN0BKY.)

Rick R

The reason that you get more AM broadcast stations (530-1700 kHz) at night is that during the day the ionospheric D-layer (40 miles up) absorbs those signals preventing them from reaching the higher layers and there then being reflected to distant points. That layer has no effect on even low-VHF TV. Increased tropospheric effects on VHF/UHF at night may increase cochannel interference and result in fewer decoded stations vs daytime (with NTSC one still got to see the stations, but with beat bars - venetian blinds).

Thanks for the memory reminder. I had one of those back in the days.

(WA6QGG, ex WA0BKY. Was first licensed in 1961 as WN0BKY.)

Rick R

Picture of my Yaesu 450XL ROTATOR is at bottom of previous page.

Except for the fact none of them (CATV chs. that is) are or I'll wager, "can ever" be expected in HD with the current bandwidth limited broadcast schema Sezmi is using to distribute them. ;)

I wouldn't expect those channels to be HD for 20 bucks . I realize the technical issue will never make those channels available in HD but that's really not a deal breaker for me.

Analog 45 (KLAU ?) has been coming in loud and clear the past couple of days after a long absence.

First time I have seen them on-air since KSKJ began digital operation on 45 per their CP in mid/late January.

Have only seen bursts of RF from KSKJ here when it was windy/stormy.

KLAU continues to put out the strongest analog signal in this area (90042).

That is whenever it is on-air, which, as other posters have noted, has become increasingly rare this year.

What does KSKJ-CD air, anyway?

Also, is there now programming on KBEH 63-4?

- Trip

Yeah, 63.4 has Spanish programs. No logo anywhere though.

Does anybody know anything about 23.4? I mean, is it legal for KJLA to broadcast there? I thought it was just a glitch, and they would have switched to 57.10 or whatever by now. Instead, 23.4 has been on the air for a couple weeks.

Still wet ground, which in the past impacted me for channels 11 and 13. Oddly, now 11 is coming in reasonably well, but 13 is very weak. I keep spinning around my little indoor amplified antenna, panel with two rabbit ears, and by extending the rabbit ears, and turning the antenna to face SW, KCOP shows up! Weird, huh.

That's me in west LA in the shadow of the Wachovia building, receiving pretty much 100% multipath.

Just curious, Now that Univision (KMEX), Telefutura (KFTR), and Telemundo (KVEA) are transmitting in 1080i, are the soccer games shown in HD, stretch mode, or STD?

I was licensed in 1956 but never heard them called that.

K6RU (ex K0HTP, KB0H, VS6II, NZ6Q)
You beat me by a couple of years. Maybe some of us are just too lazy to deal with the extra "at"! 8-)

73,

dtv4u (K6EFA)

Just curious, Now that Univision (KMEX), Telefutura (KFTR), and Telemundo (KVEA) are transmitting in 1080i, are the soccer games shown in HD, stretch mode, or STD?

I can only comment on the KFTR soccer match earlier tonight between San Luis and a team with the acronym ATL. It was simply an SD broadcast but I did get a kick out of watching Vince "Slap Chop" pitching an ad in Spanish during one of the commercial spots.

If I turn the antenna to 65 degrees I get KVCR at night at great signal strengths (80%+). But I lose some Mt. Wilson stations like KOCE.

A few thoughts:

1) Did you use RG-6 cabling to hook up the antenna?
2) What tuner are you using?
3) Try using a less directional antenna. Something like a CM4221 would probably get the job done for UHF, but you will probably need to add an upper VHF antenna by way of a combiner.

What does KSKJ-CD air, anyway?

Also, is there now programming on KBEH 63-4?

- Trip
All I've seen so far is infomercials on KSKJ.