God willing, their encoder is broken and they're upgrading it. The one they have now sucks.

Don't want to interrupt your thread, but you gentlemen seem to be the ones to ask. I just picked up ABC HD DNS from LA on Direct and notice that everything local is in a widescreen format(not quite 16:9). Just wondering what I'm watching.

thanks

Originally posted by rickmccamy
Don't want to interrupt your thread, but you gentlemen seem to be the ones to ask. I just picked up ABC HD DNS from LA on Direct and notice that everything local is in a widescreen format(not quite 16:9). Just wondering what I'm watching.

thanks

During non-HD programming KABC stretches their SD picture a bit leaving small black bars on the side. It's very annoying, but then I don't watch anything on ABC outside of primetime.

kabc runs the HD channel (7-1) slightly stretched to 14:9.

ktla (5-1) stretches to 15:9.

IMHO, they're trying to get the general public used to the new shape of things to come. . .

irie,
--cap'n bob

Originally posted by bobhuntsman
kabc runs the HD channel (7-1) slightly stretched to 14:9.

ktla (5-1) stretches to 15:9.

IMHO, they're trying to get the general public used to the new shape of things to come. . .

irie,
--cap'n bob

Thanks guys, I was guessing 15-9, I've got about 3/4" pillar boxes, though the field of view is actually wider when compared to our local ABC7 SD in S.F.

I just bought an HR10-250 to replace the SAT-T60 I've had the last few years so this is my first foray into HD. Love it! I'm getting the LA locals via OTA and Direct TV (network only). One show I was particularly interested in watching in HD was Enterprise on UPN. Although the show is great in HD, I'm not getting a DD5.1 stream. Is this always the case with the LA UPN affiliate?

Also, I was hoping to see more local sporting events in HD. There was a Laker/Clipper game in HD on KTLA, but the next Clipper game against the Warriors was not (probably because it was on the road). Anyway, is there any hope that channel 9 will broadcast more Laker games in HD or is this solely dependent upon where they are on the road and if the equipment is available? What's preventing FSN from doing all Laker and Clipper home games in HD? Staples is wired for it. They obviously have the equipment. Is it really that cost prohibitive? Direct TV doesn't get FSN HD right now so I have no way to watch them unless Direct TV rebroadcasts it on one of those open channels, but I would hope it's something coming in the not too distant future.

Originally posted by wxman1969
I just bought an HR10-250 to replace the SAT-T60 I've had the last few years so this is my first foray into HD. Love it! I'm getting the LA locals via OTA and Direct TV (network only). One show I was particularly interested in watching in HD was Enterprise on UPN. Although the show is great in HD, I'm not getting a DD5.1 stream. Is this always the case with the LA UPN affiliate?

Welcome wxman1969. I hate to disappoint you, but unless I missed something, KCOP is not passing any HD at this time, they're uprezzing the SD UPN feed.

Well it's definitely a better picture than the SD feed I get from Direct Tv, but that would be a bummer if it's not true HD. The guide lists Enterprise as being in HD so it would seem that this would be a bit of a misrepresentation if they are just "uprezzing" an SD feed. I'm fairly certain that Enterprise was being filmed with HD equipment so I just assumed UPN was broadcasting it in HD.

By the way, does anyone know whether the Dodger or Angel broadcasts this year will be in HD? I can't even remember what channel they will be on this year.

Originally posted by wxman1969
Well it's definitely a better picture than the SD feed I get from Direct Tv, but that would be a bummer if it's not true HD. The guide lists Enterprise as being in HD so it would seem that this would be a bit of a misrepresentation if they are just "uprezzing" an SD feed. I'm fairly certain that Enterprise was being filmed with HD equipment so I just assumed UPN was broadcasting it in HD.



It is being shot in HD, but Fox owns KCOP and has no intention of upgrading KCOP to pass HD when UPN is only offering 1-2 shows in HD. Believe me this is very frustrating that the flagship UPN station isn't offering their programming in HD. The guide is simply wrong because they're using national guide data despite the fact KCOP cannot pass HD.

Does anyone have any idea how to get the schedule for KOCE-HD 50-2? D* shows regular scheduled programming. KOCE's web site seems to only list the SD station 50-1.

This is concerning the PSIP 2/1/05 deadline mentioned on the main local reception page.

I've noticed a great deal of change with the info data on our local channels. Prior to this, only KTLA had programming information in the electronic guide with other stations just leaving it blank. KCOP was always mapped to 66-1.

After going through channels today and checking info, it looks as if every channel has programming information now. KCOP is finally mapped to 13-1 for the first time since I had my HD box back in 2003.

Originally posted by StormCrow
Well...looks like KTLA blows it again.

Got Smallville on now and it is still a zoomed letterbox 4:3.

Is it just me?

Maybe too...KTLA and the WB will wise up and realize (Like KTTV/FOX finally did) people don't enjoy having the screen cluttered by 2 bright annoying logos.

I'm watching my recording of this weeks Everwood. No longer a zoomed 4x3....But the picture is awful and the audio is way out of sync.

KTLA....get it together!

Tonight while watching "Dubbya" my NBC feed left its 4-01 spot on my channel lineup and went all the way up to 36-01...and remains there now (10:20PM). What is up with that???

Originally posted by riffell
Tonight while watching "Dubbya" my NBC feed left its 4-01 spot on my channel lineup and went all the way up to 36-01...and remains there now (10:20PM). What is up with that???

KNBC-DT occasionally has been having problems. Sometimes the picture goes blank, top half of the picture is jumbled up, or the occasional 4-1 <-> 36-1 PSIP swap. Kinda sad for a flagship west coast O&O station to run this kind of operation.

I don't know if the recent Santa Ana breezes and unusually clear sky has anything to do with it, or if the Feb 1 date meant anything, but Channel 13, KCOP-DT, has shown a sudden signal strength jump here in Huntington Beach, 40 miles from the transmitters on Mt Wilson. It was running at about 62%, almost always not receivable, using my DVICO fusion 3 HDTV card in my computer. But in the last 2 or 3 days, suddenly I'm getting 87% signal strength!

Although it doesn't mean much, because all I have seen is poor quality, off-center programming. I want it to be better, because there is only ONE reason to watch Channel 13, and that is the SMOKING HOT, SUPER SEXY newsbabe, Lauren Sanchez!!

But the digital picture is no better than the analog Channel 13. Maybe worse. And again it is off center. I see a black bar on the left of my monitor. Weird.

Now I need KABC-DT to turn up their signal. I only get 35-40%. With a LARGE third story rooftop antenna. So I know the problem is not at my end.

OK, a little background first. I was born and raised in LA (North Hollywood) and have been living in Chicago the past 2 years. I am moving back to LA this summer so I thought I would start to read through this thread to see the state of OTA HDTV in LA.
I am a bit concerned. Right now in Chicago, I would have to grade OTA HD a solid B+/A-. Generally great PQ, little to no audio issues, overall very happy, except for the fact that CBS is on VHF channel 3 so it renders my Silver Sensor (UHF only) useless for CBS, but I digress. As I read through the more recent posts, it seems that there is a lot of talk about bad PQ, audio dropouts, KTLA's general disarray, etc. from quite a few AVSers. What would you guys rate the current state of affairs with LA HDTV on a scale of 1-10? Thanks a lot in advance. Can't wait to be back in LA, real winters are not much fun : )

I have very few problems with my OTA reception. I am in Van Nuys and I think B+/A- would be a fair asessment here as well.

I would give L.A. an 8. We get the big 4, PBS and WB in HD. UPN isn't, but this is the first year that UPN is even sending HD so I'll give them a bit longer to work it out.

Anybody having problems getting 5-1 and 5-2? I just lost KTLA today. I've also lost many UHF channels, like 28-1, 28-2, 34-1, 34-2, 50-1, 50-2, 56-1, 56-2, 58-1, 58-2, etc....was just wondering if this is happening with other receivers or if mine is starting to break down.

Thanks in advance.

Yeah, KTLA-DT is down right now. And Ch 28 analog is off the air, so they have a problem.

I posted above that KCOP-DT was coming in much stronger. Now. KCAL-DT shot way up! It was running 62%. Now it is 87-94%! Wow.

All I need now is for KABC to go up from the 45% or so I get to 75+ and I'll be very happy. Ch 7 has so many news goddesses I want to drool over in digital :)

Did anybody else notice huge jumps in the signal strength at KCOP & KCAL, or am in a frequency warp down here in Huntington Beach?

Regarding the question for L.A. Ratings:

IMHO ;)

Los Angeles is a mixed bag. Personally I would expect better being a major entertainment center, studio town...etc.

On a 1 - 10 Scale

CBS - (8-9) Most consistant

KNBC - (6) Intermittantly loses HD and 5.1.

KTLA/WB - (5-6) Intermittant loss of HD and out of sync audio....also, two big bright disgusting logos.

KABC - (8) 720P looks great on my set...siganl a bit weak, occasional breakups or loss of HD....but rare.

KCAL - No HD

KTTV/FOX - (7) The engineers seem to be on the ball and they finally got one small logo in the corner. FOX shows though often don't have great pix quality.

KCOP/UPN (0) No HD

KCET/PBS - (4) Muticast causes awful motion pixelization and no 5.1 audio. They also have screen clutter with the big national PBS logo upper left and KCET's big logo, bottom right.

Edit - Re KTLA: I'm watching the Wed. 2/2 primetime shows and they are HD and I don't see the motion pixelization that has plagued their broadcasts. New gear? They were off the air yesterday (2/3)...not sure what's going on over there.

Originally posted by StormCrow
Los Angeles is a mixed bag. Personally I would expect better being a major entertainment center, studio town...etc.

On a 1 - 10 Scale

CBS - (8-9) Most consistant

KNBC - (6) Intermittantly loses HD and 5.1.

KTLA/WB - (4) Intermittant loss of HD and out of sync audio and about the worst pix out there....also, two big bright disgusting logos.

KABC - (8) 720P looks great on my set...siganl a bit weak, occasional breakups or loss of HD....but rare.

KCAL - (0) No HD

KTTV/FOX - (7) The engineers seem to be on the ball and they finally got one small logo in the corner. FOX shows though often don't have great pix quality.

KCOP/UPN (0) No HD

KCET/PBS - (4) Muticast causes awful motion pixelization and no 5.1 audio. They also have screen clutter with the big national PBS logo upper left and KCET's big logo, bottom right.

I would agree with most of this, but I find it hard to fault KCAL since they have no HD programming to air. In my mind they should be using their DTV signal to multicast time shifted news casts and weather, since that's the core of their programming.

Looking at it market by market, I'd say LA is in pretty good shape. NY has lots of DTV problems since 9/11, Chicago has that CBS VHF problem. SF has loads of problems with signal penetration and their NBC affiliate.

Your right Mitch....I was going up the dial and did a "0" thinking of the basketball games. But that is a small chunk of their programming and they are Independent.

Thanks.

Originally posted by Larry Parker
Yeah, KTLA-DT is down right now. And Ch 28 analog is off the air, so they have a problem.

I posted above that KCOP-DT was coming in much stronger. Now. KCAL-DT shot way up! It was running 62%. Now it is 87-94%! Wow.

All I need now is for KABC to go up from the 45% or so I get to 75+ and I'll be very happy. Ch 7 has so many news goddesses I want to drool over in digital :)

Did anybody else notice huge jumps in the signal strength at KCOP & KCAL, or am in a frequency warp down here in Huntington Beach?

KCET HD (28.1) is off the air too. I wonder if there was some damage on Mt. Wilson due to the recent high winds.

Originally posted by Kaleo
Anybody having problems getting 5-1 and 5-2? I just lost KTLA today. I've also lost many UHF channels, like 28-1, 28-2, 34-1, 34-2, 50-1, 50-2, 56-1, 56-2, 58-1, 58-2, etc....was just wondering if this is happening with other receivers or if mine is starting to break down.

Thanks in advance.

I'm having the same problem and I live in Pasadena. I'm glad it just not me.

Originally posted by Kaleo
Anybody having problems getting 5-1 and 5-2? I just lost KTLA today. I've also lost many UHF channels, like 28-1, 28-2, 34-1, 34-2, 50-1, 50-2, 56-1, 56-2, 58-1, 58-2, etc....was just wondering if this is happening with other receivers or if mine is starting to break down.

Thanks in advance.

You guys have all done a re-scan, right?

Most stations made a change early this week to switch on PSIP guide data and I've read other posts where because the stations have now also brought their PSIP data into compliance, PIDs have changed (for instance), and a re-scan has been necessary.

I'll have to check KCET but I'm able to receive KCAL-DT without a problem.

Andy.

Originally posted by AndyS
You guys have all done a re-scan, right?

Most stations made a change early this week to switch on PSIP guide data and I've read other posts where because the stations have now also brought their PSIP data into compliance, PIDs have changed (for instance), and a re-scan has been necessary.

I'll have to check KCET but I'm able to receive KCAL-DT without a problem.

Andy.

Yep. Did several re-scans. No joy.

Here in Valley Center I was receiving almost all LA stations with very good signal strength until yesterday. I too am missing 5, 7, 28, 50, and 58. 7 had been iffy in the past, but 5, 28, and 50 were always rock-solid, so their absense makes it seem like there's a problem on Mt. Wilson. Multiple rescans have made no difference. This is with the Pioneer 5040HD built-in tuner.

- Merle

PHEW! Glad it's not just me. Last night (Thursday Feb 3) I noticed that I no longer have KTLA (5-1,5-2) or PBS (28-1) or KOCE (50-2). There may be others but those are the ones I noticed. I REALLY hope KTTV doesn't pull this crap on Sunday...else I'll have many angry guests. ;) Could this PSIP thing have caused all this as well as causing my KNBC to go from 4 to 36 on my channel guide? I'll have to rescan tonight.

They are all back on now. Because of number of stations down it must have been a tower or something.

Andy S, I don't know what PSIP means, but I did a re-scan. The only difference I noticed is that the name of the NBC weather sub channel was changed fron NBC4-WX (I think it was) to "WX-Plus".

Using my DVICO Fusion 3 HDTV TV tuner PCI card in my computer, here is what I am receiving here in southeast Huntington Beach using a large rooftop antenna on my 3 story apartment building:

KCBS-DT 2-1 83%
NBC4-LA 4-1 75%
WX-Plus 4-2 "
KTLA-D1 5-1 78%
KTLA-D2 5-2 " (Same video as 5-1, sometimes SAP in Spanish)
KABC-DT 7-1 57% (I get no picture or sound)
KCAL-DT 9-1 65% (No High Definition)
KTTV DT 11-1 87% (Come on, Super Bowl!)
KCOP DT 13-3 87% (480i No High Definition)
KSCI-D1 18-1 65%
KSCI-D2 18-2 "
KHWY-DT 22-1 70%
KCET-HD 28-1 50-70% (signal strength varies a lot)
KCET-SD 28-2 "
KFTR-DT 34-2 78%
KMEX-DT 34-1 77% (34-2 shows up before 34-1)?
KTBN-D1 40-1 50% (No video or audio)
KTBN-D2 40-2 " "
KTBN-D3 40-3 " "
KTBN-D4 40-4 " "
KOCE-DT 50-1 89% (Some sweet HD)
KOCE-DT 50-2 "
KOCE-DT 50-3 " (No HD)
KVEA-DT 52-1 78%
KDOC-DT 56-1 78%
KDOC-SD 56-2 " (SD, of course)
KJLA-DT 57-1 58% (A Ventura channel!!)
KLCS-DT 58-1 83%
KLCS-DT 58-2 "
KLCS-DT 58-3 "
KLCS-DT 58-4 "
KRCA1 62-1 91%
KRCA2 62-2 "
KRCA3 62-3 (Might be on part of the day only)
KRCA4 62-4 (Might be on part of the day only)

Just for the heck of it, here are the analog channels I am receiving: 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 18, 22, 27, 28, 30, 33, 34, 40, 44, 45, 46, 50, 52, 54, 56, 58, 62, 63, 67, and even 8 and 10 from San Diego, not strong signals, even though the antenna is pointed to Mt Wilson near Los Angeles!

Originally posted by axolotl
Here in Valley Center I was receiving almost all LA stations with very good signal strength until yesterday. I too am missing 5, 7, 28, 50, and 58. 7 had been iffy in the past, but 5, 28, and 50 were always rock-solid, so their absense makes it seem like there's a problem on Mt. Wilson. Multiple rescans have made no difference. This is with the Pioneer 5040HD built-in tuner.

- Merle

WOW! That's amazing you can get the LA channels there in North San Diego County. When I was staying in Murrieta, I could barely get anything on my portable TV, no LA or SD channels.

Originally posted by TonyW79SFV
WOW! That's amazing you can get the LA channels there in North San Diego County. When I was staying in Murrieta, I could barely get anything on my portable TV, no LA or SD channels.

We have the advantage of being on the north side of a mountain at about 1300 ft elevation, facing northwest towards Mt. Wilson. We can see Mt. Baldy from our location, but line of sight to Mt. Wilson is through Saddleback Peak. But that doesn't seem to matter much. We have a Channel Master Stealthenna with preamp mounted above our DirecTV dish using a Winegard mount specially made for that purpose, and an antenna rotator. Most of the channels are constently strong, but 7, 56, and 57 occasionally drop out. The rotator helped a lot - some of the channels are receivable only within a 10 degree or so range of rotation. We may get a Channel Master 4221 and preamp at some point, but for now we're satisfied with the quality/consistency of the LA signals.

We can't get any San Diego/Tijuana DTV stations - turning our antenna in any of the three orientations that point to the towers down south, we see nothing. The SD analog stations come in very weakly, but no luck with DTV. Too much multipath interference, and since we're on the NW side of a granite mountain, we're pretty much shielded from signals down south. At least we can get KTTV 11 for out Super Bowl party tomorrow!

Interestingly, a previous poster said they were logging KTBN-40 with no picture or sound - I've seen the same thing - it will show up when we scan, but we don't get anything. And the signal strength is always at 49. Odd.

Here's our list of channels and signal strengths using the built-in tuner in a Pioneer PDP-5040HD:

KCBS-DT 2.1 88%
KNBC-DT 4.1/4.2 84%
KTLA-DT 5.1/5.2 51 78%
KABC-DT 7.1 67%
KCAL-DT 9.1 70%
KTTV-DT 11.1 70%
KCOP-DT 13.3 73%
KSCI-DT 18.1/18.2 75%
KHWY-DT 22.1 76%
KCET-HD 28.1 83%
KMEX-DT 34.1 74%
KFTR-DT 34.2 74%
KTBN-DT 40.1 49%
KOCE-DT 50.1/50.2/50.3 84%
KDOC-DT 56.1/56.2 61%
KJLA-DT 57.1 69%
KLCS-DT 58-1/58.2/58.3/58.4 78%
KRCA-DT 62.1/62.2/62.3/62.4 72%

KVEA-DT 52.1 has rarely come in at this location. Also, we get USDTV 99.1 and various subchannels, which I believe are all subchannels of 57.1

- Merle

hey
i'm pretty new at this
i'm in westwood area (right next to westwood park)
and i heard that it will be very hard for me to catch OTH HD
cause my area is a "dead area" is that true
or i still have a chance to catch stuff with indoor antena (i rent my apt so i cant install stuff outside on the building"

please any help will be great

thanks

In the last 3-4 months, has anyone else had KABC-DT 53.1 (7.1) show up in a mosaic of 4-6 screen segments, or, had such bad pixilation that the entire (ABC prime time) program is unwatchable?

No. My KABC is usually flawless.

It's Super Sunday and I can't get sound on the Fox-HD PrePrePre Game show w/Tom Arnold. It went out 2o minutes into the show. It's been out 10 minutes. Not OTA or Adelphia feeds. It works in other channels and in KTTV Channel 11 regular.
:eek:

Mine was out too on Adelphia (I didn't try OTA yet)

I switched around and back a few times, after I tried Fox SD then back to FOX HD, it kicked in. Was breaking up at first, but seems OK now.

Hope it holds....

Originally posted by mitchrc
No. My KABC is usually flawless.

Mine is usually fine too, but, I record with AccesDTV and every once in a while only KABC-DT records as a glitchy unplayable mosaic for no apparent reason at all.

I have DirectTV and I'm only gettin a SD signal for OTA. For ABC I go to channel 2-1 so I assume FOX is 11-1.

Anyone else seeing KLCS-DT 58 now showing up as 80.1 through .4? It had been showing up correctly as 58 until I had to rescan when various channels went down earlier this week. I've done multiple rescans, and it's always showing up with the wrong channel number.

- Merle

I know its during the superbowl, but I was flipping through the channels and went by kcal 9-1 and lo and behold it looks like an HD program, Ocean Oasis. Can anyone confirm ths is an HD program on Kcal? And in DD 5.1.

Can't confirm that, but I did notice they have the grey bars now.

Can't get KCOP UPN and KTLA WB in LA

I'm able to get several OTA DTV channels on my Mits. I went to http://www.antennaweb.org as suggested and found out that although I'm getting some channels that are nearly the same distance and compass orientation as others, I don't get other channels in that same group - for example I get 9.1 which is set for 40 degrees at 23.2 miles but I don't get 5.1 at 40 degrees and 23.2 miles. Where can I find more info on this?

I'm using the onboard tuner of my Mits WS-65813 connected to the common apartment complex antenna.

Some of the channels I do get
2.1
4.x
7.1
9.1
11.1 - somewhat unreliable
28.x
41
58.x
62.x

Thanks

Originally posted by mitchrc
Can't confirm that, but I did notice they have the grey bars now.

The gray sidebars on KCAL-DT started around the same time as KCBS-DT; about a month or more ago. However, WCBS-DT had gray sidebars for a while now; it was time before its sister stations here followed suit.

On a side note, the PQ of KCBS's newscasts also improved during the same period I noticed; not HD, but they must have upgraded their infrastructure to SDI component video over composite video. Their newscast PQ suffurred from lots of NTSC artifacts prior to this, however KCAL still currently suffers from NTSC artifacts from having a composite video line between the studio and HD upconverter. KCBS, KNBC, KTLA, KABC, KTTV now all have component 480i quality from inside the news studio; remotes still are sent as analog composite video.

They're all getting there. I'm suprised nobody in this market has thrown the HD switch yet in news.

Originally posted by mitchrc
They're all getting there. I'm suprised nobody in this market has thrown the HD switch yet in news.

Don't just look here in LA (2nd largest TV market), no local station in New York or Chicago is doing HD local news either; interestingly, the stations in the three biggest markets are network-owned stations (network O&O), and I assume that network O&O stations are not interested in HD local news unlike non O&O stations in Raleigh, NC (WRAL), Denver, CO (KUSA), or Seattle, WA (KING & KOMO) are. However, I heard recently that a Fox O&O in Ohio is doing HD local news.

However, for our market, the in-studio shots and weather/traffic graphics still look great in component video. Just compare the newscasts from KCBS & KCAL, since they're Viacom stations and use the same graphics; and you'll see what a difference SDI component (KCBS) vs. composite (KCAL) video looks.

Your right about the picture quality on the local newcasts. It's the first thing I noticed when I got my HD gear and I was surprised. I've generally found that O&O's tend to be behind the curve, technologically, except in the case of "group buys" such as migrations to DVC-Pro or Avid. Then again, you'd be shocked at some of the stuff that still goes on at the networks. ABC is still editing promos on Betacam SP and D-2 is everywhere. Only Fox seems to have avoided all of that since they had very little legacy hardware to begin with.

Question about scanning/rescanning: is there is a specific scan time that is better to pull in the max number of channels, i.e. clear nights, days with low solar activity, or something like that. I often get different channels when rescanning the local digitals. For instance, I lost KSWB from San Diego last week when I rescanned before the superbowl. Is it an atmospheric thing (like with AM radio signals), or do they turn the transmitters on/off intermittently or is there something else? Cheers.

Originally posted by boe
Can't get KCOP UPN and KTLA WB in LA

I'm able to get several OTA DTV channels on my Mits. I went to http://www.antennaweb.org as suggested and found out that although I'm getting some channels that are nearly the same distance and compass orientation as others, I don't get other channels in that same group - for example I get 9.1 which is set for 40 degrees at 23.2 miles but I don't get 5.1 at 40 degrees and 23.2 miles. Where can I find more info on this?

I'm using the onboard tuner of my Mits WS-65813 connected to the common apartment complex antenna.

Some of the channels I do get
2.1
4.x
7.1
9.1
11.1 - somewhat unreliable
28.x
41
58.x
62.x

Thanks

What does the Apt complex have up there as the UHF antenna?
You may need to put up your own if you can.

Randu - I have no idea - I'm sure it is old.

I'm in Huntington Beach and will be setting up OTA on my new Samsung as soon as I get a STB.....

I'm looking for any advice/suggestions from anyone here in HB that have been successful with doing this.........
I just bought the Silver Sensor and am trying to decide on which STB I want.

Thanks

The Silver Sensor is great for what it is, but it might not be enough. But definitely try it out first, before buying a more expensive antenna. You can always sell the SS on eBay later.

Point the antenna at 337 degrees--which is exactly NNW.

With the SS I got channels 4 and 5 at a watchable signal strength. By inserting the vanes in the antenna vertically, I could get Ch 11. Now I use a rooftop antenna, and I get 2, 4, 5, 11, 13, and UHF stations. Ch 7 only comes in at 50%--no pic or sound. Ch 9 is mostly out at 62% or so. Remember that we are over 35 miles from Mt Wilson, I am 40.3 miles away. The SS is not meant for that distance, really.

I'm at Brookhurst and Hamilton.

Originally posted by bshef
I'm in Huntington Beach and will be setting up OTA on my new Samsung as soon as I get a STB.....

I'm looking for any advice/suggestions from anyone here in HB that have been successful with doing this.........
I just bought the Silver Sensor and am trying to decide on which STB I want.

Thanks

I'm in Newport Beach, using an amplified indoor RCA antenna I picked up at Target. I get all the channels with no problems, except for 34-1, 34-2, 44-1, 44-2. I have a Samsung also thru D*.

I am in costa mesa, I have a SS and get all hd cahnnels except 7. It has worked great for me

Thanks for the replies.......
I'm hopeful that I'll have some luck with this!

Any STB suggestions?

bshef:

Do yourself a favor and forget about the Silver Sensor.

Get an outdoor antenna, mount it properly and aim it at Mt. Wilson.

You'll save yourself a lot of grief and disappointment.

I'm at Magnolia and Warner, and have a Winegard HD7078P, with virtually perfect PQ on analog and digital, VHF or UHF.

http://www.winegard.com/offair/pdf/hd7078p.pdf

irie,
--cap'n bob

Yeah, but the problem is finding a good and reliable installer that is bonded and insured.

I live in a condo in San Pedro and have a pesky HOA that won't allow me to climb on the roof and do it myself.

-Ed

a pesky HOA
tru dat.........I also have to deal with an HOA.......
however, the OTARD rule established by the FCC in '96 states.....

OTARD Rule prohibits restrictions that impair the installation, maintenance or use of satellite dishes that are less than one meter in diameter, TV antennas of any size, wireless cable antennas and customer-end antennas that receive and transmit fixed wireless signals.

http://www.imakenews.com/ortenhindman/e_article000171760.cfm

Thanks for all the replies!

"KCAL showing HD?"

KCAL was broadcasting Ring of Fire and touting "HD-Max" on Sunday, NICE!

I will be looking for more HD programeing on KCAL needless to say;)

"KCAL showing HD?"

KCAL was broadcasting Ring of Fire and touting "HD-Max" on Sunday, NICE!

I will be looking for more HD programeing on KCAL needless to say


I caught that too, hopefully we can expect that again next weekend!

Originally posted by bshef
tru dat.........I also have to deal with an HOA.......
however, the OTARD rule established by the FCC in '96 states.....

OTARD Rule prohibits restrictions that impair the installation, maintenance or use of satellite dishes that are less than one meter in diameter, TV antennas of any size, wireless cable antennas and customer-end antennas that receive and transmit fixed wireless signals.

http://www.imakenews.com/ortenhindman/e_article000171760.cfm

Thanks for all the replies!

Yes, unfortunately, my unit faces south, so I cannot do a balcony install.

"The OTARD Rule does not give an owner or tenant the right to install an antenna on general common elements in a condominium community (i.e. the roof) or the common area in a townhome or detached single family community. If an owner or tenant is unable to obtain a signal in a location in which he has a right to install the antenna and wishes to install the antenna on general common element or common area, the association may still require approval. There is no automatic right to install an antenna in these locations."

So, up on the roof it goes. The HOA is pretty flexible about it. They have approval paperwork, but they pretty much said to me, just get an insured and bonded installer to do it, then give us the paperwork and we'll approve it after the fact.

So my problem is not getting approval, it's finding a good installer. I've already had one flake out on me. :rolleyes:

-Ed

Originally posted by Edwood
So my problem is not getting approval, it's finding a good installer. I've already had one flake out on me. :rolleyes:

-Ed

Here's the number for the installer I used. He came highly recommended from other AVSers.

Marcelo

Tel # 661-299-1410
Page # 310-724-1897

Here's the original thread from the archives...

http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=278402&highlight=marcelo

Thanks!

-Ed

Yup, KCal in HD! The HD to the Max: Ring of Fire show on Sun 2/13 was probably one of the best PQ OTA shows I've seen. I'm hoping it's a series. My digital info & TitanTV incorrectly listed a different program and as SD. If they can start showing some Lakers & Dodger games in HD, that'd be perfect.

*********************
DISH 811 KABC OTA ISSUE
*********************

When I try to tune into 7.1 or 7.2 or 7.3 (UHF 53)
the Signal only comes in at 0-49.
Occassionally, it will jump up to 80+ and lock in, then the station will be fine. But if I change the channel, I will loose the lock, and return to the 0-49 signal strength with no lock and an error message and I'm back to square one.

All the other L.A. Stations come in at 80+ and so does ABC when it locks.

Can someone please shed some light on this issue?
-or- has anyone else experienced this same thing?

Thanks

I'm amazed you can get 7 at all in Temecula! Do you have a 737-sized YAGI?

Any multipath issues? Nearby reflectors, like big buildings?

KCAL-DT will be running the IMAX movies in HDTV for a while on Sunday at 6:00 PM in HDTV. Looks and sounds great. They might also be on the Viacom UPN stations across the country as well.

Most likely they will do HDTV at sometime in the future but there is the problem of not enough HDTV production trucks across the country. There is also the problem of fiber connections at the arenas for transmissions out of the away city.

(I do not work for KCAL)

Originally posted by rttrek
I'm amazed you can get 7 at all in Temecula! Do you have a 737-sized YAGI?

Any multipath issues? Nearby reflectors, like big buildings?



Pretty much,
I have a Winegard 9095 with a 4700 preamp
I have NO problem receiving any other L.A. Stations.

There is a mountain to south of me.. but it's a few miles away.. no large buildings, and like I said... all the other channels are fine, and once KABC tunes in and locks, it's fine.

Do you know of any ways to diagnose and treat multipath issues?

No, but perhaps someone else here?

I will tell you what I did to solve a multipath problem. Mt Wilson is 6 deg south of due east. There is a pass in the mountains that is about 30 deg south of due east. I believed I was getting two siganls one direct and one through the pass. I aimed my antenna due east or a few degrees north of due east. This made little effect on the direct signal being only 6-8 degrees off on pointing directly at it. However it diminished the second signal quite a bit being off by over 30 degrees.

I found this out by aiming the antenna and having someone else watch the TV and read the % signal. (and communicating by cellphone.)

Also by moving the antenna up or down a few inches in increments of 1/4 inch I was able to find an optimum position for the worst channel. Due to reflected signals, moving just a little up/down or sideways will make a difference in the signal and you can find a sweet spot. However the sweet spot may be different for each channel. I found the sweet spot for my worst channel this way (channel 7 also).

I also have two STB. My OTA only MIT MDR-200 does a much better job of regecting multipath than my Dish 6000.

Rick R

Hi all,
I have a Samsung SIR-T150 since 2002 and it has been working fine to get all OTA HDTV channels from where I live (West Covina). However, since a few months ago, I have trouble getting ABC (channel 7) and Fox (channel 11). The problem with both stations was that even with good signal, as soon as I tune to either channel, after 30 seconds or so, the image just froze on screen for 15 seconds or so, then the image came back and the whole thing just repeated itself (image for 30 sec, frozen for 15, then repeat). I have no problem with all other channels (2/4/5/9/11/28 etc...). It's not signal problem because I get a green signal. It doesn't sound like hardware problem either because it happened only on channel 7 (ABC) and 11 (Fox), HDTV program or not.
I would appreciate if you could give me some comments/help. If you are in the Los Angeles area and use OTA HDTV, please let me know if you see what I saw on those 2 channels?

I already had my HDTV receiver (Samsung SIR-T150) rescanned several times but the 2 channels (ABC and Fox) still have the same problem. I have also manually deleted the 2 channels and then added them back. Same problem. My receiver doesn't use zip code or anything to select channels. The setup just has a single option to "scan all available" channels then any channel it found is added automatically.
I think I read it here that older HDTV like my SIR-T150 would just ignore the flag? (As Samsung offered update only for SIR-T161 and later models). Even if it's the flag, while just the 2 channels of ABC and Fox? It also happened that these 2 channels are broadcasting in 720p instead of 1080i, but I have my HDTV reciever since 2002 and I never had any problem with them until a few months ago.
I would appreciate any more comments and I will try anything.

-Mike-

It's been mentioned...but I'm watching Sundays Crossing Jordan and the motion artifacts on KNBC are as bad as KCET these days.

It looks like any 1080i broadcaster degrades the HD when they do a sub channel.

Will our HD future be a smear of pixelation? Or is there some upgrade the stations can do to better handle their bandwidth limitations?

This week's 70's Show [11-1] only recorded from 0:24 to the end. Anyone else have problems witn this?

Cokewiggo

Re: Dish 811s

I live in western Ventura county some 65 miles from MT Wilson so I had similar problems with drop out of LA OTA digitals with the 811s.

My problems were solved with the last 2 - 811 software updates. So you might want to make sure you have the latest 811 updates. I may not be your answer but worth a try.

I just noticed KNBC-TV is off the air and NBCW-HD is also off on D*.

anyone else is having problems with FOX tonight?
the signal just disappeared during american idol

Looked fine to me. Did not even hiccup via OTA w/o STB.

I just bought the MyHD MDP-130 card on Monday while I was in the OC, and have used it to record American Idol for two nights now. I've seen no problems on my Samsung or the MyHD card.

The quality of these programs is tremendous, beautiful HD and 5.1 on KCAL...just here to give you a heads up on sunday night. This will be on alongside the Oscars.


Ring of Fire
KCAL-DT 43 (9.1) Sunday 2/27/2005 6:00 PM, 1 hr

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ring of Fire


An IMAX documentary detailing volcanoes and seismic activity in the Pacific Rim. Included: a look at the Mount St. Helens eruption in 1980; the 1989 San Francisco earthquake; and the birth of a new volcano in Chile. Robert Foxworth narrates. George Casey directed. (1991)

Now that ABC has dropped their news channel KABC channel 7 has gone back to local news on 7-2. They use subchannel 2 to broadcast a repeat of the last local news program broadcast. I find this very useful and I was wondering if anyone else liked it.

Often I am out or I am watching a movie and miss the original broadcast of the local news. I am able to pick it up from 7-2 whenever I get around to it. For example the 11:00 news is rebroadcast at 11:30 and 12:00. (They delete the last 5 minutes of the 11:00 news to fit it into 1/2 hour.

Just curious if anyone else ever watched this.

Rick R

Originally posted by Rick_R
Now that ABC has dropped their news channel KABC channel 7 has gone back to local news on 7-2. They use subchannel 2 to broadcast a repeat of the last local news program broadcast. I find this very useful and I was wondering if anyone else liked it.

Often I am out or I am watching a movie and miss the original broadcast of the local news. I am able to pick it up from 7-2 whenever I get around to it. For example the 11:00 news is rebroadcast at 11:30 and 12:00. (They delete the last 5 minutes of the 11:00 news to fit it into 1/2 hour.

Just curious if anyone else ever watched this.


ABC News Now was always intended to be a hybrid/national local news channel, but KABC never really implemented the local part. ANN, when it relaunches, will be a dual venture between the affiliates and the network so I expect we'll see a mix of national news and local news or rebroadcasts. It's not real clear at the moment it it'll be on 7.2. They're going after more digital cable coverage, but it seems to me it makes sense for them to use 7.2 to distribute it to the local cable companies as well as us few ATSC viewers. I think there's a real market for a local news channel and since none of our cable cos. are doing one there's a real opening there. I also enjoy NBC Weather Plus, esp. with all the crappy weather we've been having lately, although like KABC, KNBC hasn't implemented much localism on it yet.

Mitch

Watched the golf from La Costa on KABC 7-1 today. Presented in some kind of semi-widescreen SD mode, whatever that is. The video quality was poor but at least watchable. However, the on-screen graphics were AWFUL, in fact, unreadable. I've seen other horrible graphics on 7-1 before.

To me it's unbelievable that such a major station can put out a signal with unreadable graphics. Anybody else see this problem? They really need to go to HD on golf coverage.

By the way, I have HD Tivo feeding Pioneer 50 in plasma - all look great with HD. I watched the golf via OTA version of 7-1, with excellent signal strength.

Max

I took a peak at KCAL's HD to the Max showing of "Ring of Fire"; the PQ is really good. It's interesting to see KCAL showing HD material considering that they're not affiliated with a network, which would normally provide local stations with HD material.

KTLA is still the king of locally originated HD broadcasts with the Rose Parade and one of their Clipper's game. KNBC used to show Travel Cafe in HD on an endless loop; it's still produced in HD but not shown that way.

The FCC database shows Construction Permits to increase ERP to the full 1000 KW for KTLA, KOCE, KTTV and KCOP and an increase for KCAL from 300 KW to 491 KW.

Can anyone confirm the schedule for the higher power levels?
Or whether the higher power levels are already in effect?

And why KNBC, KLCS, KABC and KCBS have not submitted higher power CP's?

Perhaps we will one day see Dodger broadcasts in HD when they move over to KCAL?

Originally posted by Johnny5.1
Perhaps we will one day see Dodger broadcasts in HD when they move over to KCAL? I actually emailed KCal about this, and surprisingly, somebody responded. Since they'll mostly show away games (home games on FSW or FSW2??), logistically it'd be very expensive for them to trasport all the equipment necessary to transmit in HD. And, probably the case for Lakers games too. I'm not sure how much more they'd need to transmit in HD over SD, but that's what I was told. I'm no broadcaster, but at some point, won't all the stadiums or arenas just have their own equipment for the visiting teams to use? Just plug-in their microphones?

I am glad to see that KCOP is going to higher power. My reception is somewhat iffy currently. Now if they would only go to HD I would be a happy guy.

Rick R

Originally posted by gohd
I'm no broadcaster, but at some point, won't all the stadiums or arenas just have their own equipment for the visiting teams to use? Just plug-in their microphones?

The stadiums are wired, but, for the most part, the broadcasters rent or supply their own trucks and cameras.

I am glad to see that KCOP is going to higher power...Now if they would only go to HD I would be a happy guy.

Ahhhh, yes. Lauren Sanchez in high def :0 :)

I was just channel surfing and noticed KCOP has a subchannel now; it runs the exact same program as the main channel. 13-1 is still SD.

I've read a few comments that some of you are having trouble picking up 7-1, ABC. I've had an 80" boom on my roof for the past year and have had flawless reception on all LA OTA channels. Two nights ago I noticed I'm no longer receiving any of the ABC digital channels. i.e 7.1, 7.2 & 7.3.

My antenna is in perfect condition and all connections look great. I tried to read through the 43 plus pages on this post so if I missed it please inform me of where to find the answer.
Has ABC changed their site? If not has anyone else who "was" receiving these channels had a similar problem?

KABC channel 7 has really been hit and miss for the last several weeks. Does anyone know what's up with them?

Originally posted by Lee Bombard
KABC channel 7 has really been hit and miss for the last several weeks. Does anyone know what's up with them?

For the past 2-3 days, I have been receiving KABC and its sub channels on 53.1, 53.2, & 53.3.

Thanks for the response balpers. I have a stupid question.....If ABC is coming in on 53.1 how do I view the channel? On my HD Tivo I went through the installation setup and it's still showing ABC as 7.1.

It's supposed to do that. It's called channel remapping. Your tuner gets some data from the signal, which tells it where to "remap" the channel. This was done to ease the transition so that for the viewer so that both the analog and digital versions of KABC appear to be on channel 7.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Lee Bombard
KABC channel 7 has really been hit and miss for the last several weeks. Does anyone know what's up with them?


im also having trouble with abc now , it used to come in perfect all the time, now my tuner can't lock onto the channel or tunes in 7.2 or 7.3 instead of 7.1 ...very frustrating

Originally posted by Afergy
I've read a few comments that some of you are having trouble picking up 7-1, ABC. I've had an 80" boom on my roof for the past year and have had flawless reception on all LA OTA channels. Two nights ago I noticed I'm no longer receiving any of the ABC digital channels. i.e 7.1, 7.2 & 7.3.

My antenna is in perfect condition and all connections look great. I tried to read through the 43 plus pages on this post so if I missed it please inform me of where to find the answer.
Has ABC changed their site? If not has anyone else who "was" receiving these channels had a similar problem?

Yes, I am seeing the same problem on two different receivers. I was receiving the channels just fine until recently. Even manually tuning to 53.x makes no difference - I can't receive any KABC digital channels. I've seen posts in other forums in which other people are reporting the same thing. If some people are still receiving them, I gotta wonder what changed and what I can do about it.

Edit: see update below.

Originally posted by mitchrc
It's supposed to do that. It's called channel remapping. Your tuner gets some data from the signal, which tells it where to "remap" the channel. This was done to ease the transition so that for the viewer so that both the analog and digital versions of KABC appear to be on channel 7.

While true, there is no longer any signal on 7.1, 7.2 or 7.3. Manually tuning to 53.1, etc. will tune the ABC stations, but my tuner's guide (HR10-250) doesn't see those channels at all. Is something wrong in the 'data' part of the signal now that's messing up the remap? This is very recent...sometime this weekend.

OK, after I did a rescan of OTA channels on my receivers, they will now allow me to manually tune 53.x. I don't know why they wouldn't do a manual tune before (they acted like they did, but then couldn't find a signal). So all I can recommend to people in a similiar situation is to do an OTA rescan to pick up the 53.x channels.

SolidState: When I did an OTA rescan with my HR10-250, it found and added the 53.x channels to my channel list, and it now allows me to select them from the guide. However, the program data is still listed under 7.x, so I can't use the guide to select or record programs from 53.x. I also suspect the signal data to be the cause, since my standalone HDTV got confused as well.

I just had that exact problem happen to me today. My DTV Tivo HR10-250 changed channels to 7-1 to record something but it was completely black. I did a rescan and it picked up 53-1, 53-2 and 53-3.

I was watching programming on 7-1 late last night, I don't know exactly when it went bad on me. I guess I will have to setup my ABC recordings manually until this gets fixed.

Considering many of us here are able to tune in the channels at 53, does that mean there is something wrong with their remapping code in the signal? Would I be an idiot if I called KABC up and asked them about it?

Intestingly, I noticed that there was no HD on ABCW on D* last night. I'm also not getting any signal here in West Hollywood. I'll check again this morning.

UPDATE: Just checked and they're back on.

Looks like the ABC 7.x are back up and working. Not sure what was going on but it looks like they've corrected the problem.

Just a recommendation to check out the HD to the Max series (Sundays 6pm) on KCal 9. Probably the best PQ show out there. They're IMAX movies formatted 16:9. So far, it's the only HD show I've seen on KCal.

Thanks gohd I'll check it out!

Originally posted by Saark
Would I be an idiot if I called KABC up and asked them about it?

One of the posters in the Tivo forum called their engineering department. Someone from KABC called him back. The story he got is that one of their computers (which maps the PSIP data) crashed, but they didn't know about it until people started calling them to tell them about it. So, I'd say that calling them would be the smart thing to do, since they appear to be clueless until someone does call them.

gohd: Thanks for tip on KCAL. I probably never would have found that on my own. I gotta check that out.

I'm sure it's probably my TiVo, but I'll ask anyway... did anyone have a problem with last night's 24? With about 10 minutes left my screen froze. The audio continued for about 5 minutes, then video caught up. Talk about bad timing. When I skipped back and replayed the segment it locked up at the exact same point.

Originally posted by PJO1966
I'm sure it's probably my TiVo, but I'll ask anyway... did anyone have a problem with last night's 24? With about 10 minutes left my screen froze. The audio continued for about 5 minutes, then video caught up. Talk about bad timing. When I skipped back and replayed the segment it locked up at the exact same point.

It's not your TiVo, I don't have TiVo and had the same problem.

R

I'm surprised... but thanks. When I backed out of the program into the menus then back to the program, the audio continued with the TiVo menu up... very strange....

Hi,
I live in Ventura and have Dish, and I want to get an antenna for
OTA HD channels. I went to antennaweb and put in my address (I'm 62 miles for most stations), they say I'll only get CBS and NBC, I already get CBS thru dish, so that doesn't seem worth the effort/expense. Thanks for any advice.

Originally posted by TonyW79SFV
I was just channel surfing and noticed KCOP has a subchannel now; it runs the exact same program as the main channel. 13-1 is still SD.

My Dish 811 won't remap KCOP to 13, it keeps it at 66-1. Quite a pain in the arse. Speaking of remapping, last week my 811 started remapping San Diego's WB station to my 5-1 and 5-2 slots. Until now it's been up in the 69-1/2 slots, but for some reason it bumped my KTLA right outta there! I had to rescan to get it back. Odd that the weak signal bumped the strong one isn't it? I also had '24' freeze, had to go to my Dish channel to watch...in SD no less. I hate when that happens.

is kabc 7 out again, i stopped getting it?

My KABC seems to be ok right now. Try tuning into 53-1, thats the true KABC without any remapping. If you can't get that either then you may just be having a reception problem.

Anyone else not receiving Fox 11-1 and UPN 13-1 OTA? I can get Fox on D*channel 89. Everything else is fine!

Originally posted by MDRLou
Anyone else not receiving Fox 11-1 and UPN 13-1 OTA?

I'm ok with KTTV at 11-1 but I've never been able to KCOP at 13-1. It won't remap, stays at 66-1.

Has KNBC, Los Angeles grown a new sub-channel? Sometimes, when recording with MyHD, I see a static signal displaying a local map. If I stop the recording and manually set the channel to 4, I get 4-1 and all is well. Do I need to re-scan may digital channels?

Originally posted by gohd
Just a recommendation to check out the HD to the Max series (Sundays 6pm) on KCal 9. Probably the best PQ show out there. They're IMAX movies formatted 16:9. So far, it's the only HD show I've seen on KCal.

Thanks for the tip. I recorded the "Cave" show this weekend and it was great. Picture quality is awesome. Next Sunday's show is on black holes and should be even better.

octavian

Originally posted by eswrite
Has KNBC, Los Angeles grown a new sub-channel? Sometimes, when recording with MyHD, I see a static signal displaying a local map. If I stop the recording and manually set the channel to 4, I get 4-1 and all is well. Do I need to re-scan may digital channels?

KNBC added 4.2 Weather Plus, is that what you mean?

Thanks, joe221. Yes, that's what it looks like. I re-scanned with MyHD, though, and it doesn't find it. Only 4-1 shows up in my channel list. We'll see how recording goes after the channel re-scan. It might have cleared the incorrect tunning problem I was experiencing.

thehig,

Others in Oxnard have reported getting all channels. Since you are in Ventura, close to Oxnard, I suspect if you get a big powerful antenna you should get all channels if you live in a reasonable area for reception from Mt. Wilson.

Rick R

Thank you Rick,
My neighbor just had Direct TV installed, they used a little V shaped antenna, he says he gets all of the LA HD channels no problem. So I guess
our area, (East Ventura near Saticoy) is incorrectly reported on the
antennaweb.org site.

That antenna sucks so I'm really surprised, but there really is no rhyme or reason to ATSC reception.

Are you sure they're not using the satellite feed of LA HD stations and just *think* they are getting them OTA? Or perhaps the questioner wasn't clear enough and didn't state OTA.

"Are you getting LA locals?"
"No problem!"
(Meaning, I get the 4 networks on the satellite and never tried anything else.)

I'm finally looking at the HD on KOCE. I was happy to see that their bug is small and much less intrusive than KCET. Plus, my signal is 100%...

But, the picture looks soft and lacking a bit in depth . I compared the Tracks Ahead ep they were showing, to the same ep I had archived from KCET. Though KCET has that motion pixelizing issue, the depth of field and window effect is more, well...HD like.

Maybe they are working on the gear today?

StormCrow,

I didn't know KOCE had an HD feed as well. Is this new? What channel #?

Simply scanning for virtual channels will miss a bunch.
When that didn't work for half the channels, we resorted to the brute
force method and simply tried ALL of them---including sub-channels.

KOCE-DT is on 48.1 (480i), 48.2 (1080i) and 48.3 (?).
Beautiful picture and sound.

Originally posted by riffell
I'm ok with KTTV at 11-1 but I've never been able to KCOP at 13-1. It won't remap, stays at 66-1.My Samsung 151 has never mapped KCOP-DT to 13, and I just assumed they weren't transmitting PSIP data telling my STB to do so. Are there tuners that do this correctly in the Los Angeles area? If so, that implies a bug or incompatability in my Samsung.

Edit: Never mind, I went back to the posts from a few weeks ago, and see that many stations redid their PSIP data. I rescanned on the Samsung, and for the first time ever, it now sees KCOP-DT on 13. Now my DVR's guide data corresponds to the tuner!

Originally posted by gohd
Just a recommendation to check out the HD to the Max series (Sundays 6pm) on KCal 9. Probably the best PQ show out there. They're IMAX movies formatted 16:9. So far, it's the only HD show I've seen on KCal.

Thanks for the tip. I taped this on DVHS and it was fantastic. I will save this tape to demo my HD system whenever I have new guests. The HD quality was absolutely top and the views were eye candy. Not to mention that it was an interesting science show.

For example as they talk about Galieo they have a panaramic view of Venice Italy his home town.

Rick R

No prob. I just stumbled upon it one day. I did a double-take when I saw it was KCal. Missed it last night though. Time to get the HD DirecTivo!

Sorry, if this is not an appropriate post for this thread. Since was KCal, thought it'd best fit into this "local" thread.

".....there really is no rhyme or reason to ATSC reception."

That is the truth. I live in Yucaipa and have a direct view of Mount W., from 60 miles away. I have a large CM in the attic with a cheap RatShack signal pre-amp. I receive 90+ signal on every chanel except one, KCOP 13. This has been driving me crazy. How can all the other locals broadcasting from the same location have excellent strength, but not 13. No matter how many re-scans or direction tweaks I do, still no signal. GRRRR.. Time to put the ugly-stick on the roof.

For me, I finally received KCOP digital only after changing from the Radio Shack yagi (2160?) to the CM 4228 (on roof, no amps) & I'm in a flat LA area <20mi from Mt Wilson. I used to work in Yucaipa area, so I know how much farther you are. IMO, there's not a thing on KCOP worth watching anyway, since there's no HD (at least I think there's none). I know, sounds like overkill w/ 4228, but I have the satisfaction of telling my disinterested wife that at least we now receive KCOP.

I'd wait. KCOP will be raising their power soon. It's not like they pass any HD anyway.

Do I understand correctly the frequencies Los Angeles television broadcasters are presently transmitting high-definition/digital signals will change before the analog-to-digital transition is complete? After shut down of the analog side some broadcasters plan to migrate their digital signals from UHF to VHF? How is that going to affect reception? For those of us who had UHF roof antennas installed to be able to get high definition going to find ourselves needing new equipment? When can we expect these changes to take place?

That is correct. The stations have a choice to make at the end of the transition. Some of the UHF band is going away and stations in it now will have to move. All stations have the choice of taking their old analog frequency back or keeping their new one. It shouldn't be much of a problem here in L.A. except for KCBS. ATSC works very poorly on VHF channels 2 and 3.

I suspect most stations will move. Broadcasting at full power in the upper UHF bands is very expensive because it takes 5 million watts ERP on channel 50 to equal what you can do with 100,000 watts ERP on channel 2.

Thanks for the info. This forum is great! Aside from the "tell me what TV to buy" posts, most of the members are intelligent and helpful.
I won't spend any more time worrying about 13.1 and wait until the cut off date. Now my only problem is how to convince my wife to let me build a HTPC.

Mitchrc

Thanks for your response.

I hope this change improves my ability to receive KABC.

Presently all other local stations come in loud & clear.

Not that I ever watch it, but does anybody else have a problem getting
44-1 and 44-2? Those are the two channels I can't get. I also don't get 57.1, which I think is KJLA. It dropped off my system a few months ago. I've got a Samsung tuner with D*.

could someone clear out the idea of what to get so that it is future proff...so to speak, as far as hardware is concerned??

thanks

Future proof in what aspect?

mitchrc
i was talking about the frequesnies..bands...
it sa long shot i guess
not knowing whcih one will become prominenet
Martin

If I were putting up an antenna I'd put up a VHF/UHF combo. I think most stations will migrate back to their VHF slots at the end of the transition to save power since there will be so few actual OTA viewers when it's done.

I read in another thread in the hardware area that over half of stations have selected to keep their old analog channels for digital when analog broadcasting ceases. In the L.A. area KCBS 2, KCET 28, FOX 11, and KABC 7 can not keep their digital channels as they are above channel 51 and are scheduled to be given to other uses.

Get a VHF/UHF combo as mitchrc says.

Rick R

Oh that's depressing. Go do some reading on the trouble WBBM is having in Chicago. They've had so much trouble on channel 3 they've struck a deal with the local PBS station to remain on it's UHF channel 47 so that 'BBM can move to channel 11 when the transition is over.

More here: http://www.satelliteguys.us/archive/index.php/t-48546.html

Once the transition is done, KABC, KTTV, KCAL and KCOP, are planning to revert to their old analogue channels, i.e. 7, 11, 9, and 13 respectively. KCBS is going to ch 43 (KCAL's) current digital channel. All the other major LA channels are staying put on their current digital channels, so hopefully those of us with UHF only antenna's will be able to receive the high end VHF channels with little difficulty. I have a Channel Master 4228, and Channel master have said that this antenna usually can pick up the high end VHF signals....touch wood.

Thank God!

Thanks for the info ozeyeo! Can you provide a link to more of this info?

FYI: You might be interested in information I just posted on the Antenna Thread re using Silver Sensor and CM-4221 UHF antennas for VHF channels:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5404549#post5404549

Originally posted by mitchrc
Thank God!

Thanks for the info ozeyeo! Can you provide a link to more of this info?

www.cmdconsulting.com/FCC_pubs/form%20382%20election%20results%20by%20channel.pdf

cheers

Broken link.

The root website also includes FIRST round of channel elections,
sorted by both state and channel number:
http://www.cmdconsulting.com/
with more rounds to come....

WOW! I don't know if April first is some kind of special date, but KABC-DT and KCAL-DT just seemingly boosted their transmitting power. Both suddenly jumped about 20 percentage points, and I can now get them in, which means I can now receive all 7 of the major LA stations ! :)

Here in Huntington Beach, using my dvico digital tv card in my computer, and a large rooftop antenna, I was only able to get 4 of the 7 major LA area stations in, until KCOP-DT apparently upped their power recently. Just now I am suddenly getting 82% for KCAL, when I was getting about 60%, which was not enough to see video. And KABC jumped from 53% to 73%---from invisible to visible :)

I hadn't noticed, but Life and Times on KCET has gone widescreen. Cool!

For anyone interested, Fry's (bought mine in Anaheim) carries the Channel Master 4228 antenna for about $50. Looks kinda geeky, but it really did work for my OTA digital/HD.

Hey all,

I'm brand new to the forum, but I have been reading most of the posts in this thread. I live in Glendale and I'm setting up an OTA tuner for my Apple HD Cinema Display 23". I've got a Silver Sensor indoor antenna, and now I'm looking for the ubiquitous 15-1171 amp. Unfortunately my local Radio Shack didn't have this particular model, and a quick search of radioshack.com only brings up a user's manual, but no actual piece of hardware. Are these being made anymore?

I was hoping to simply run to a store and buy one, not have to mail order.

Also, I'm hoping to get good reception inside the house with my SS, I'm about 10 miles away, direct line of sight, to Mt. Wilson. What do you think?

Do you need an amp? I know someone with a $5 crapola indoor antenna without an amp getting all the digital stations from Cerritos (about 20+ miles from MtWilson) without problems. Go to antennaweb.org, to make sure you're pointed in the correct direction & if see what antenna/amp is recommended. Are you getting any channels now?

Whoops, sorry to give the impression that I'm already setup. I'm waiting for my tuner to arrive, and I was just getting my other hardware requirements out of the way.

I'm going to try the channel 28 test and see if I can get that on a standard tv with my SS. If so I'm probably good to go without an amp. Thought it couldn't hurt to have one handy though, as long as they're cheap.

Did anyone watch Leno tonight with Will Smith?When the showgirls came out the whole thing became a horrendous unwatchable pixelated mess.To much movement for the mpeg encoders i guess.I think KNBC need to turn off their subchannel asap.

Did anyone have trouble receiving ABC last night? I have not had any trouble since i got my Z silver sensor more than a yr ago, but last night ABC was just not coming in! dammit, i had to watch Lost in SD..... I had a strong signal for every other major network, but ABC.....

I had an odd occurence on Thursday last week. I was out walking the dog listening to CBS on my walkman around 3:00 PM. Judge Judy, I believe. When I got home I put the TV on 002.1 to watch the end of the show, and I was surprised to see a golf tournament. The odd part is that when I went to the Dish local CBS feed on channel 8001 it was showing Judge Judy. So the digital OTA channel was showing one thing and the regular channel another? I had never seen that before. Why would they do that I wonder? Did market research show that people with digital TVs want to see golf more than everyone else?

During the week Masters coverage was on USA and Universal HD. I would imagine that CBS negotiated the option to air the HD coverage during the weekdays on their OTA digital channels and KCBS elected to do so.

NBC ran a separate feed of the Olympics recently. This isn't completely unusual. KCBS has done the same thing during March Madness.

Hi,

I just bought a Zenith HDV420 off of Ebay and then put a CM3018 on the roof. I'm about 38 miles from Mt. Wilson in Costa Mesa. I'm able to receive all of the digital channels listed on antennaweb. All stations that I checked the signal strength showed halfway between normal and good.

There is no guide info on the Zenith, but otherwise I'm impressed.

Thanks,

-tom

Does anyone have any experience with HD OTA reception in Manhattan Beach, particularly with a Silver Sensor, or other indoor antenna?

Thanks.

I used to live in South Redondo Beach on Broadway, and had nearly all channels pegged with a dual Silver Sensor stack. And on the bottom floor too.

-Ed

Thanks Edwood. At least there's hope. How did you configure your silversensors in a verticle stack?

It's not perfect, but take off the very bottom base part from one of the Silver Sensors. Put is right on top of the other one, right on top of the other one, and use zip ties to hold it in place.

It's not geometrically perfect, but close enough. Just make sure they are pointing in the same direction.

-Ed

Is anyone reporting problems with KCET-DT? I noticed several days ago that I'm no longer receiving a signal from their station which is channel 59 in the UHF spectrum. I thought I was briefly able to tune to it this evening, but when I re-scanned for it I got nothing.....I have absolutely zero signal level.....anyone? Thanks.

I get KCET on 28.1 and 28.2. Are you sure you are tuning to the right frequency?

Burt

Remember that Channel 28 is really 59. So try entering 59 directly. Sometimes tuners can "lose" the station.

Weird, but it happens a few times on my Zenith HDR420.

-Ed

Rock solid here.

CBS Sports are the ones who produced the unified coverage (HD and analog) and they "let" USA/Universal HD simulcast during the week. I think for the past 3 years HD coverage was available via CBS OTA for all 4 days.

Thanks again Edwood. As soon as I get everything settled into place and make the necessary run to Sears, I'll give it a shot.

Thanks for the responses. I'll try again later today to get the station. I had been receiving it just fine and the tuner (Sony HD-100) mapped the station to 28.1 and also got 28.2 very reliably. It wasn't until a few days ago that I got that dreaded "searching for digital signal" message and, when I checked signal strength (Channel 59) there was nothing. I have had the tuner map the signal to 59.1 in the past a couple of times but it didn't even do that last night. This could possibly be a tuner or antenna problem, but I'm locked on KCBS-DT (Channel 60) just fine. Hmmm......

From what I can find on the Fox web site it doesn't look like there are any plans for any local (LA area) HD broadcasts of Dodger games. I know channel 13 isn't doing any HD yet so no help there. Has anyone heard differently? Seems like every other major league team has local HD broadcast except LA. I find that hard to believe and a little embarassing. I suppose we will get the very rare ESPN HD broadcast, but that's about it.

Posted date: 4/15/2005
Baseball Team Deals Showing New Clout on Local TV Scene

By JAMES NASH
Los Angeles Business Journal Staff
http://www.labusinessjournal.com/article.asp?aID=27615211.8982791.1129622.4491256.1007243.671&aID2=86885

The newly dubbed Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim have leaped from the smallest television package in Major League Baseball to the largest, with all but four of the team’s games airing on either cable or broadcast this season.

What happens next year could be another question.

Angels owner Arte Moreno has pushed to give the team more exposure in Southern California, primarily through Fox Sports Net West, the programming-hungry outlet of broadcasting giant Fox Entertainment Group, which is owned by News Corp.

In March, Fox Sports Net West bought the rights to an additional 50 Angels games this season from the original 52-game package. Viacom Inc.’s KCAL (Channel 9) plans to air 50 games, with scattered games carried on ESPN, KCOP (Channel 13) and nationally televised Fox broadcasts, seen locally on KTTV (Channel 11).

But after this season, KCAL will give up its contract with the Angels in favor of the Dodgers – a switch that a station spokesman would not discuss other than to call it a business decision. That will leave Moreno and the Angels looking for a new broadcast home next season.

The deals illustrate the growing clout and spending power of regional sports networks such as Fox Sports Net West, as well as the desire by team owners to be on the air as much as possible. Cable plays an increasingly important role in this mix because its viewership is more focused on sports than broadcast stations, and regional networks are willing to pay more for the rights to games. In addition, the mini-networks UPN and WB are gobbling up primetime hours on both KCOP and KTLA (Channel 5), which is when games are typically played.

*The full version of this story is available in the April 11 edition of the Los Angeles Business Journal.

Team's TV schedules clearer
http://www.dailynews.com/Stories/0,1413,200~29583~2780889,00.html
By Tom Hoffarth, Columnist Friday, March 25, 2005

Less than two weeks before the start of the regular season, the Dodgers and Angels finally sorted out their 2005 local TV schedules. The winners: those who pony up for cable or a satellite dish.

In the last year of its over-the-air package with the Dodgers, KCOP/Channel 13 squirmed out of its contractual obligation of 50 games and went with half that -- 25 -- this season. The result, and the reason for the delay in issuing the schedule, is that FSN West 2 juggled enough things around to accommodate the extra Dodgers telecasts, increasing its take to 125, up from 100 a year ago.

"Because this is our last season, we wanted to lessen the impact on our network and regular program schedule," John Frenzel, a spokesman for Channel 13, said Thursday in a statement.

Meanwhile, FSN West increased its Angels take from 81 last season to 102 for the upcoming season, the most the cable channel has had in its 13 years of doing business with the team. KCAL/Channel 9, the Angels' partner for one more season before carrying the Dodgers, will show 50 games. The remaining dates for the Dodgers and Angels have been claimed by Fox and ESPN.

Giving the cable side 125 games probably benefits the Dodgers financially and causes less confusion with viewers, yet it will be those who live in the 20 percent of homes without cable or a dish in Los Angeles who will complain the loudest once the regular season begins.

Because Channel 13 said it didn't want to disrupt its less-than-sparkling UPN network programming, all but two of its telecasts are on a Friday, Saturday or Sunday -- one on Monday, July 4 at Colorado. The other is a Thursday game from San Francisco on Sept. 15, which is the first of a four-game series against the Giants, all on Channel 13 except for Saturday's Sept. 17 game slated for the Fox network.

"KCOP is a part of a network that finds it's more and more difficult each year to clear that many nights for programming, and that's the reality of trying to fit in sports," said Lon Rosen, the Dodgers executive in charge of broadcasting.

Rosen said when the Dodgers switch to Channel 9 for over-the-air games in 2006, it'll go back to a 100-on-cable, 50-on-over-the-air split. The Angels haven't announced what it will do for over-the-air in 2006 with limited options. Last year, after claiming it would televise every game of the season, it patched a schedule together using KDOC and a Spanish-language channel, neither of which are included in the 2005 slate.

Meanwhile, the Dodgers continue to use the exhibition season to give their new broadcast pairings some quality time together. Charley Steiner and Steve Lyons, who will do TV road games east of the Rockies later in the season, are paired for today's radio game. Rick Monday and Al Downing, the radio team during those road games, did a few exhibitions together this week.

Otherwise, the most noticeable improvement on the radio side this spring has been Monday's effectiveness in the role of a color man working with play-by-play man Steiner.

http://www.venturacountystar.com/vcs/sports_columnists/article/0,1375,VCS_225_3672154,00.html
Television adds more to Dodgers, Angels rivalry

By Jim Carlisle jcarlisle@VenturaCountyStar.com
April 3, 2005

pictureOne positive thing the flameout of the Lakers has accomplished: It has once again made baseball cool in Southern California.

The popularity of the Dodgers and the Angels, after both won division titles last season, continues to climb. So much, in fact, the teams have become rivals off the field now more than ever.

That rivalry has spread even to television. The Dodgers announced last November they would be moving their over-the-air telecasts in 2006 to KCAL (Channel 9), the station that now carries the Angels.

The big stink between the two teams, of course, is the Angels' name change from Anaheim Angels to Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim. The idea by team owner Artie Moreno is to help the team's marketing ability by associating it with the second largest city in the nation.

It's a big thing around here -- the Dodgers are miffed about it and the city of Anaheim has taken the Angels to court -- but elsewhere in the baseball world, the general response is a collective yawn.

"The Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim?" said ESPN's Jon Miller, rolling the name around a little on his tongue before planting it firmly in his cheek. "A lot of teams ought to really do the same thing. I was thinking you could have the San Francisco Athletics of Oakland or the Vancouver, B.C., Mariners of Seattle. It's limitless.

"I'm thinking it really could be a good marketing plan for teams to urge their fans to rename the team as appropriate to their community. Like 'the Ventura County Angels of Anaheim and Los Angeles,' if you happen to live in Ventura County. 'The Camarillo Dodgers of Los Angeles,' or whatever. The possibilities of marketing are limitless. Think of all the caps and T-shirts and whatnot that you could have marketed just for Camarillo or Ventura County. So, a stroke of genius, and they have hardly even scratched the surface.

"This is sort of a long way of saying that I think for the rest of the nation this is absolutely a non-issue and who cares?" Miller continued. "I think it's cool that they're called the Los Angeles Angels, although 'Los Angeles' in Spanish mean 'the Angels.' So it's really 'the Angels Angels.' So in that way, it's really sort of bizarre."

Miller and Joe Morgan return for their 16th season on ESPN.

Throw me a cable: More this season than ever before, in order to really enjoy the Dodgers or Angels on TV, you'll need cable. The Dodgers will show a record 125 games on FSN West 2 in 2005. KCOP (Channel 13), which now has lame-duck status as the Dodgers over-the-air station, was given only 25 games to show.

Vin Scully, 77, will scale back on his schedule a little more starting this season, his 56th with the Dodgers. He'll continue to call all televised home games on FSN West 2 and Channel 13, but he'll travel only to games against National League West opponents. That figures out to a total of about 100-110 games, considering some of those games will be picked up by national broadcasters ESPN and Fox.

Meanwhile, the Angels, who had a complicated patchwork TV schedule last year, are putting the bulk of their games on FSN West. They'll put 102 games on the cable channel this season, up from 81 last year and 50 the year before that. The team will also show 50 games this season on Channel 9. They won't show any games on KDOC (Channel 56) and KPXN (Channel 30) as they did last season.

New faces: After a messy incident in which the Dodgers fired Ross Porter, who had been an announcer for the team for 28 years, the team will have three new voices at the microphone in 2005.

Charley Steiner, known primarily for his work as an anchor for ESPN, takes Porter's place as the No. 2 play-by-play man. Since leaving ESPN, Steiner, 55, has worked primarily in baseball play-by-play on radio. He did Sunday night broadcasts for ESPN Radio before spending the last two seasons with the New York Yankees.

Scully will continue to work alone and the first three innings of his call will continue to be simulcast on radio. With Scully cutting back a little, Steiner will be on TV a little more than it originally appeared when he was hired. Joining Steiner on TV will be Steve Lyons, known mostly for his work as an analyst on Fox telecasts. Rick Monday will work exclusively on radio. Al Downing will serve as an analyst occasionally as well on TV and radio.

Dodgers radio broadcasts will continue to be heard on Ventura's KVEN (1450 AM) and flagship KFWB (980 AM). Picking up either of those stations in eastern Ventura County at night will still be difficult. The radio broadcasts are also available at http://dodgers.com.

Angels broadcasts enjoy the status quo. On TV, Steve Physioc teams on TV with the manic Rex Hudler, while the capable team of Rory Markas and Terry Smith continues on radio. The Angels can be heard on KVTA (1520 AM) and on flagship KSPN (710 AM).

Around the nation: When it comes to baseball on network TV, the question primarily is: How many times can we show the Yankees and Red Sox?

Fox and ESPN plan at this point to show five games between the two uber-rivals, starting with today's season opener on ESPN.

Fox's Saturday schedule starts May 21 with interleague games, including the Dodgers and Angels.

-- Jim Carlisle is a staff writer for The Star. E-mail address: jcarlisle@VenturaCountyStar.com.

Copyright 2005, Ventura County Star. All Rights Reserved.

Threads merged.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bgooch

Subject:after this season KCAL will carry Dodgers in HD

Can you tell me where you heard/read this? I read your long post about baseball broadcast situation for LA (thanks for that), but not a single mention of HD.

Edwood,

I forgot to ask in my question about the stacked silver sensors: where, and for that matter, how did you set yours up? Attic? Near the display? Permanent mount? etc. I'm coming at this from both a functional standpoint, and to deal with the WAF.

Thanks.

I have had a problem lately with ch 2 on programs in HD but not Dolby. At least three or four times a show I lose the sound as it goes from ProLogicII to Dolby for 2-3 seconds . Happens only on cbs. Any one else having this problem?
Thanks
DLT

I am way out in Moreno Valley (~50 miles from Mt. Wilson) and just got set up with a Dish Network 811 receiver. I have read about many problems with it for OTA reception but so far it has worked out OK for me. I can receive all of the LA stations with signal strength in the 85-90% range, with two exceptions. KTBN is only about 60-65% at best, but I think that is because it is co-channel with KVMD which is on the back side of the beam for me. The other exception is KCOP on channel 66, which is 49% signal and no lock much of the time. There are times when I can tune to it and, if I leave it on that channel for 15-20 seconds the receiver will lock with 65-70% signal. Is there anything unusual about the KCOP signal that could be causing the problem or is it just a signal strength/multipath issue in my location?

I live in Perris with an 811 and I have the exact same situation. I get all the DTV LA locals 99.99% of the time with the exception of KCOP. I get that channel maybe 1 or 2 times but not very stable. This is a know issue. Also I am just using a Square Shooter with a Channel Master Pre amp. Perris is about 56miles from MT Wilson.

OK, I feel a little better now that it isn't just my location. When KCOP finally locks in it is stable, the 811 seems to hold it just fine. For my antenna I am using a 10-year old RS UV-120 on my roof with no amp (RS antennas seem to hold up OK here in the IE). With the amount of signal I get here in MV it doesn't seem necessary as long as I am not splitting to multiple runs. So now the question is, is it a problem with the 811 or with KCOP?

I didn't lock onto KCOP until I tried the CM 4228 & I'm only about 20 or so miles from MtWilson. Overkill? Maybe, but at least it works. The antenna was only 50 bucks, so didn't break the bank. I'm in a flat LA area with direct shot at MtWilson, so wasn't sure why I couldn't lock either.

I would be interested to see what the waveform looks like at my location. gohd - if what you say is any indication of everyone's experience with this channel then there must be something really odd about their signal. Hopefully the situation will improve in July when they are required to transmit at full licensed power. Fortunately no one in my family even notices that channel is missing. In another month once Enterprise has ended I will have no reason at all to watch that channel.

Honestly, I don't watch anything on KCOP either, but have the satisfaction of knowing I receive the channel. Stupid, huh?

No, I'm with you. I like to be able to see them all even if I don't watch them all. So far I have only deleted one sub-channel from my channel list, only because channel surfing across it for some reason causes my receiver to hang every time. Has anyone else had any trouble with KLCS 58-06? There doesn't appear to be any video there but it wreacks havoc on my Dish 811.

I too have an 811 and noticed that a few days ago (weekend?) KCOP went from 66.1 to 13, and now the PG shows the actual programming info, not just 'Local Digital'. So I guess they finally started their PSIP?

I connected my 811 for the first time on Saturday night. The first channel scan I did didn't locate either channel 66 or channel 13-1. When I manually entered 66 on Sunday afternoon it took a good 30 seconds of bouncing around 49% before it finally locked in at about 65%. It does show KCOP-DT 13-1 in the channel listing now, so I guess the PSIP data is correct. There must be something else going on for that thing not to lock on the signal right away like it does on the other channels.

There does seem to be a problem with the PSIP for KLCS. The channel listing shows 41-1 through 41-6, but when I channel surf across those channels the guide shows 58-1 through 58-6. Sometimes I come across those channels twice while scanning through. Other times I scan across them but they are all just black. KLCS must be having some trouble getting their PSIP set up properly.

Originally posted by rbarbier
I live in Perris with an 811 and I have the exact same situation. I get all the DTV LA locals 99.99% of the time with the exception of KCOP. I get that channel maybe 1 or 2 times but not very stable. This is a know issue. Also I am just using a Square Shooter with a Channel Master Pre amp. Perris is about 56miles from MT Wilson.

I live on the east side of Moreno Valley and am considering HDTV but the AntennaWeb.org site indicates that I would be not ba able to recieve any LA digital signals. The odd thing is that it says I should be able to recieve the VHF OTA signals with a fringe antenna. It seems strange that I could recieve the VHF signal and not the digital UHF signals as they come from the some area ? Box springs Mtn appears to be directly in line with Mt Wilson but its elevation is somewhat lower and I am about 15 miles south east of it and 60 miles from Mt Wilson. From my roof top Its unclear if there is a signal path or not, But it seems to me that if I can get VHF signals from Mt Wilson I should have at least some chance of getting the UHF signals comming from the same general area ? I guess I wont really Know until I try.

Dave - all I can tell you is give it a try. See if you can pick up a decent picture on analog channels 22, 34, 50, 58, and 67. If you can see all of them without ghosts (multipath) then you should be able to pick up the digital OTA channels no problem. The one exception would probably be KCOP-DT on channel 66. You aren't that much further east than I am and you are a little further south so I don't think Box Springs is going to be an issue. Just point your antenna a little to the left of Box Springs (right at the pass where the 215/60 enters town) and you should be pointed dead-on at Mt. Wilson.

I noticed that KCOP comes in at about 65% and is reasonably stable during prime time. At other times it comes in at 55% and is not so stable. I am guessing they increase their power during prime time. Do your channel scan during prime time.

Also many stations are still experimenting with their PSIP. Changes to PSIP can cause a channel to lock up. The solution is to delete the channel and then add it back in.

Rick R

Hello all...

I've read this entire thread over the last three days and I first want to say thank you to all of the helpful people here.

For those that live in my neck of the woods, I live in Moorpark on the highest street above the college.

Now the questions:

1. Will the CM 4228 be able to pull in the lower end of the VHF spectrum once the broadcasters settle into their final frequencies? I was leaning away from this antenna because of its weight and neighborhood aesthetics concerns.

1b. I was considering the CM 4248 because it apparently performs better in the VHF band and I can purchase it locally. Is it worth a try?

2. Is there any reason to start without a pre-amp if for no other reason than to keep things as simple as possible at the start?

What is an 811? I bought one of the Walmart boxes and it seems to work pretty well, but i'm 8.7 miles from Mt. Wilson antennas.

Originally posted by dublus
I was leaning away from this antenna because of its weight and neighborhood aesthetics concerns.Aside from looking kinda geeky, it actually doesn't look TOO bad. In fact, since it doesn't have the huge VHF "wings" & the metal mesh (sorry, don't know the technical terms for it) is quite thin, from a distance it's less visible than a monster VHF/UHF antenna. Not sure if it's a good indication of how it may pickup VHF channels when/if they switch digital back to VHF, but now the analog channels look awful with the 4228.

Originally posted by mingus
What is an 811? I bought one of the Walmart boxes and it seems to work pretty well, but i'm 8.7 miles from Mt. Wilson antennas.

The 811 is actually the Dish Network model 811 HDTV receiver. It receives Dish Network programming as well as free over-the-air (OTA) digital broadcasts. Current subscribers can lease one for $50.00 up front and a one year commitment to the Dish HD pack (currently on special for $5.00/mo). Not a bad deal at all IMHO. Sure Dish Network is missing some of the big HD channels that DirecTV has, but for only $5.00/mo I can be patient. And I get to enjoy some good HD programming now while Charlie is getting his act together! :D

That CM4228 is a good UHF antenna but not designed for VHF at all. As long as you don't have too much of a ghosting problem on the analog channels, even if there is some snow in the picture you may be OK with the digital broadcasts once they move to VHF. You won't have to worry about anything below channel 7 from what I understand of the transition plans.

Thanks for the replies gohd and dlsnyder.

The 4228 looks good but I'm very concerned that after everything is set up "perfectly" I'll have to switch out the antenna because of poor VHF performance (I'm 45 miles from mount Wilson). If the information at hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html is accurate, it looks like the Winegard PR-8800 would be the best choice for me. Any reason to doubt what the graphs say?

For me, I'm hoping DirecTV will eventually transmit HD locals via satellite to everyone, then I won't need the antenna. Or, at least I don't think I will. I'm trying to follow the DirecTV MPEG4 thread, but I've become a little lost, so will just wait for it to happen & let the others figure out the kinks. Plus, it was only $50 & pretty simple rooftop single-story chimney mount, so not too difficult to redo if new antenna needed.

Having a problem on KCBS HD broadcasts. Any program not in Dolby seems to flip to Dolby at least 3-4 times a show , It will show Pro LogicII and then for a few seconds show Dolby which causes the sound to mute. Have a Onkyo 502 receiver and am wondering if any one eles is having this problem? Happens on OTA and CH 81 D*

Might as well leave it up. The signal OTA is always going to look better than anything DirecTV provides since they're going to recompress the signal.

Threads merged.

I was channel surfing and caught the tail end of an "HD to the MAX" (IMAX film converted to 16:9 HD) program on KCAL. It was in HD (or at least widescreen). This is pretty cool b/c it appears KCAL (an independent station) can now transmit HD. KCOP (UPN), what's your excuse?

Next Sunday @6pm they'll be showing Adv. in Wild CA

http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0244303/

Threads merged.

Has anyone else noticed an annoying problem lately with KCBS-DT OTA audio? It seems the audio switches from Dolby Digital 2.1 to Dolby Digital 5.1 and then back. It stays in 5.1 mode for just a second or two before reverting. This only happens on KCBS so I really doubt it's my equipment. Any input would be appreciated.

Looks like KCOP-DT finally made the transition to HD! Fire up some Dodger high def baseball....yeah right.

Originally posted by wehodavid
Has anyone else noticed an annoying problem lately with KCBS-DT OTA audio? It seems the audio switches from Dolby Digital 2.1 to Dolby Digital 5.1 and then back. It stays in 5.1 mode for just a second or two before reverting. This only happens on KCBS so I really doubt it's my equipment. Any input would be appreciated. I have noticed same problem on both my receivers. I'll look tomorrow at D*'s east coast feed to see if they are having same problem. It maybe a network thing.

You can try contacting KCBS and informing them of problem.

Originally posted by Johnny5.1
Looks like KCOP-DT finally made the transition to HD! Fire up some Dodger high def baseball....yeah right. What programs on UPN are HD? Though I still am having trouble with the signal strength on my D* Tivo.

Originally posted by Johnny5.1
Looks like KCOP-DT finally made the transition to HD! Fire up some Dodger high def baseball....yeah right.

Wow, you got me excited. I can't wait to get home to check KCOP. Just the thought of taping Enterprise in HD has got me going.

This means I can watch the final episodes of Enterprise in HD.

Rick R

KCOP-DT in HD? WHOA!!! The LA DTV transition is complete, every channel from 2 to 13 is now 720p or 1080i. This week's been pretty big in the HD world with Conan going HD and now KCOP transmitting HD.

I noticed Conan is broadcast in HD finally.

Yeah, it's great that nearly all channels are in digital, but WTF is wrong with the stations? They have a bunch of monkeys working there? Often shows that are always mastered in HD, and usually broadcast as such are broadcast in 4:3 480p instead? They forget to "flip the switch?"

This happens so many times it's just plain stupid.

-Ed

Originally posted by wehodavid
Has anyone else noticed an annoying problem lately with KCBS-DT OTA audio? It seems the audio switches from Dolby Digital 2.1 to Dolby Digital 5.1 and then back. It stays in 5.1 mode for just a second or two before reverting. This only happens on KCBS so I really doubt it's my equipment. Any input would be appreciated.

I contacted KCBS engineering and received the following reply (kudos to them for their open and timely response)...

"We know about this...it is a complicated issue....has to do with metadata coming from NY. We air programming "live" from the Satellite from NY...and some encoding takes place for the audio mix that is based on metadata that is sent as part of the program content, embedded in the picture content.

We are working to solve it...you may see the fix before the end of next week...Thanks for your note...

We appriciate you sending us a note if you see or hear something you do not think is correct, we like to get your feedback...and yes the problem is in HD off air, and Direct TV..."

Is there anyone else on the westside having problems w/signal strength on their HR10-250 (D* Tivo)?

I have no problems w/my HD200.

OK, it's do or die time for me now. LST-2400A and CM-7777 arrive Monday and Optoma RD65H arrives Tuesday (as well as a tankless water heater, but that's another story). If I'm going to have an antenna waiting for them when they get here I've got to put it up over the weekend.

I'm in Moorpark, 45 miles from Mt. Wilson. For those from around these parts, I'm on the highest street above the college.

I want to do as little of the trial and error thing as possible (of course). I know that for straight UHF the cm4228 would be a good choice but I would like to get something that would give me the VHF channels as well. What would anyone suggest that would be good for UHF and VHF that won't make it look like my house is being attacked by aliens?

Originally posted by dlt21
Has anyone called KCBS about the Dolby Problem? See this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5552343#post5552343)

thanks

Originally posted by dlsnyder
Dave - all I can tell you is give it a try. See if you can pick up a decent picture on analog channels 22, 34, 50, 58, and 67. If you can see all of them without ghosts (multipath) then you should be able to pick up the digital OTA channels no problem. The one exception would probably be KCOP-DT on channel 66. You aren't that much further east than I am and you are a little further south so I don't think Box Springs is going to be an issue. Just point your antenna a little to the left of Box Springs (right at the pass where the 215/60 enters town) and you should be pointed dead-on at Mt. Wilson.

I did a little testing with a simple indoor rabbit ear antenna and I can get several channels from LA but they are very week. I got out my Topo Maps and it looks like I have a fairly clear shot at MT Wilson from my location. I wonder why antennaweb.org says that I can get virtualy all of the analog signals with a good fringe antenna but none of the digital signals. Is there a greater signal path loss for the digital signals. As I said I am about 60 miles from Mt Wilson (92555). I do notice that if I move my location just 5 miles closer but in the same line of sight that antennaweb.org lists all the channes as being available. I am thinking that maybe they just automaticaly assume that at some distance over 55 miles or so that you can not get acceptable digital reception. I think I am going to pick up a ch 4228 antenna and test it on the regular uhf analog channels before I go out and get an HDTV tuner for my HTPC.

Well, as was previously mentioned KCOP UPN 13 changed their digital broadcast from 480i to 1080i last week. Unfortunately they still didn't pass on the HD broadcast of Enterprise. I hope that they are in the process of converting to HD and we will see HD Enterprise later.

Rick R

Hey Rick R -

You seem to know what your talking about and it just so happens we're neighbors (I'm in Moorpark above the college). Could you or someone else that lives in the area please give me some idea what my chances are in picking up most or all of the digital stuff from Mt. Wilson?

I think I remember you posted that you have a CM 4228. What would be my chances if I tried one of those? I know that any advice anyone gives is just an educated guess but that's better than nothing. I'm worried that the UHF would be acceptable but once some of the stations revert to their original VHF frequencies I would be in trouble. In light of that possibility (and the fact that an antenna installation on top of my house isn't something I'd want to do more than once), I would prefer putting up a UHF/VHF combo antenna but there hasn't been much discussion about those here. Are most folks just going to cross that bridge when the need arises?

Thank you for your reply.

VHF should IMPROVE your DTV reception vs UHF.
Although there is considerable discussion re possible noise and interference problems for Ch2 through Ch4.

Most UHF digital stations are operating at much lower power than VHF stations and the propagation loss is much higher at UHF--a double whammy.
Which can be diminished with the higher gain UHF antennas (preferably outdoors).

I posted a discussion re propagation prediction methodology for LA (and mostly SD) areas at the fol:
http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/messages/1/2846.html?1112095186
I'm working on a more comprehensive spread sheet calculator
that includes nearly ALL of the LA and SD stations, and will also
post the associated Radio Mobile transmitter info file at the same time.

Radio Mobile is a fairly simple FREE propagation prediction program (PPP)
that you can download and use. It can download and use a much higher
resolution topographic database (SRTM-1) than antennaweb.org.

davefre99: antennaweb.org uses a propagation prediction model that includes the diffraction loss due to terrain between you and Mt Wilson.
There is a big chunk of the 2600 foot high Box Springs Mountains in your way and explains why moving the location around will change the results.

This is the same location that KVCR has a high power analog UHF transmitter on Ch24 and a lower power DTV on Ch26, which may complicate the use of a preamp at your location due to being only 9 miles away.

Reminder re. use of "UHF ONLY" antennas for upper (Ch7-13) VHF channels:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5404549#post5404549

There may be a moderate degree of gain for Ch7-13, but rabbit ears (heck, even a bent coat hanger!) will outperform a UHF ONLY antenna for Ch2-6.

In response to a query on how the www.hdtvprimer.com NEC simulation results compared to actual antenna gain, see the fol. post where I posted a spread sheet comparing manufacturer's spec sheet data for over a dozen antennas, including several comparisons to NEC simulation results:
http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/messages/1/2840.html?1109029581
Sometimes it had good agreement, and sometimes NOT.

Hi dublus,

I guess we are neighbors of sorts. I am in a very difficult OTA reception area. I am only 3 miles from 2700' Rocky Peak that is in my direct line of sight to Mt Wilson. Actually the west end of Simi Valley gets better OTA reception than the East end because even though it is further from Mt Wilson it is further from Rocky Peak.

In Moorpark you should have no problem, especially if you are high up above Moorpark College. I have a Winegard 8200 VHF/UHF antenna with a Winegard 8275 VHF/UHF preamp. This antenna is big and not particularly cheap but it works great and I am set no matter what they do with channel assignments.

They carry this antenna in stock at ITC electronics on De Soto just north of Nordoff. I believe they will order the preamp for you also.

Good Luck,

Rick Roome

Originally posted by holl_ands
davefre99: antennaweb.org uses a propagation prediction model that includes the diffraction loss due to terrain between you and Mt Wilson.
There is a big chunk of the 2600 foot high Box Springs Mountains in your way and explains why moving the location around will change the results.

This is the same location that KVCR has a high power analog UHF transmitter on Ch24 and a lower power DTV on Ch26, which may complicate the use of a preamp at your location due to being only 9 miles away.

holl-ands,
Thanks for the respose
I have checked by visualy looking from my rooftop and using a compass and my top maps using a heading of 280 deg which is the basic heading antennaweb.org says that and antenna must point to from my location to recieve the LA stations and it looks to me like the Box Springs Mtn, atleast the peak is just a few degrees north of my signal path. How much different is the VHF signal propagation than th e digital UHF signal. I am a ham radio operator (KE6VEH) and can fairly easily get ham reception from 440 mhz repeaters on the same Mtn range. It is not clear to me at all why antennaweb.org would say I can receive virtualy all analog UHF channels with a finge antenna but no digital signals. I would think that the digital transmitters would be more powerful since thay are newer and will eventualy replace the analog transmitters. Can analog reception be any indicator of digital reception. I hate to go out and buy a big antenna if I have little chance of recieving the digital signals. Also assuming that I could get decent reception with a big antenna like the ch 4228 and a pre-amp would it be feasable to use a filter to attenuate the ch 24 & 26 local pbs channels without loossing the LA feeds.
Thanks,Dave

holl_ands - thanks for the UHF vs VHF info.

Rick - thanks for the "neighborly" advice.

Dangit, I've already ordered the CM 7777 pre-amp. It looks like the Winegard 8275 is a little better. Yesterday I was at Fry's and picked up a Channel Master 3020 "deep fringe" antenna. The wife wouldn't let me get the enormous CM 4242. She was muttering something about "the neighbors" or something. Anyhoo, she agreed that if the one we were getting didn't work out that we could get the biggie.

I'll let you know how it all works out.

Once again... no HD for Enterprise. What are the odds they'll get it together for the last night?

I just saw a promo on ABC saying, on Monday, Eyewitness News will be become crystal clear....but nothing more than that was said. Could it be a transition to HD newscasting?

After Enterprise is gone, I might as well delete UPN from my channel list.

actually my cable company gave me flack because (...some one on my wireless link was accessing my "wireless" access point...of course!!! and i had nothhing to do with it ofcourse!!!) they said that upn or whomeever makes the enterprise show gave them flack for this and i shoudl stop immidiatly!!! of course i said the wireless access point is going to be history!! (...or course!!!)...i guess whomeever was downloading the the enterprise past episodes got the message!!! (of course!!!hehe)

and now i find out they are axing enterprise!!!

yep..i think it is save to assume that upn has nothing but enterprise and mayebe the local car chase if you wanna follow it while it is happening!!! (...as oppose to the earth chattering humanitarian crisis that the rest of the world is talking about!!!...as an example of course!!)

anyhow i think upn will s@#$ even more when it lets enterprise go!!

bye bye upn....

Martin

Originally posted by Johnny5.1
I just saw a promo on ABC saying, on Monday, Eyewitness News will be become crystal clear....but nothing more than that was said. Could it be a transition to HD newscasting?

I saw that teaser too after last Friday's Eyewitness Newscast. They were saying something along the lines that "coming Monday, the #1 in breaking news will be crystal clear". However, being sweeps month, it could be anything, like when they introduced their Live Doppler 7000; but the way the teaser described whatever they're doing, it almost seems like its high definition related. What else can a newscast do that's "crystal clear"?

KABC has another teaser of the same style as the one mentioned above mentioning that "ABC7 will take local news to a new high", I still can't see how the second teaser is HDTV related other than "high" being high definition. I'm still skeptical of their news going high def; but one can only hope.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed....i went to the KABC 7 website and emailed someone in engineering but haven't had any response yet concerning the promo.

Yeah, f#ck UPN. They are upset that I can download Enterprise in 16:9 HD, yet they refuse to broadcast in HD in LOS ANGELES, THE AREA WHERE THE ACTUALLY MAKE THAT PIECE OF SH*T SHOW?!?!?!?!

:rolleyes:

-Ed

Originally posted by Johnny5.1
I'm keeping my fingers crossed....i went to the KABC 7 website and emailed someone in engineering but haven't had any response yet concerning the promo.

It's probably a ratings stunt and something the station doesn't want to give away; that's why you won't get a reply. I believe there are 3 versions of this teaser. After viewing all of them, the one thing I can see is that they are touting something that will help with "breaking news". For whatever they got, we'll know in less than 24 hours. However L.A.'s first local HD newscast is not a bad thing.

UPN/KCOP: So they got the HD transmitter but not the HD UPN network signal or HD signal routing capabilities. No wonder UPN is in last place, so many affiliates are treating UPN like 2nd class citizens. Too bad Enterprise will leave UPN without ever a 1080i LA broadcast. Even #1 market NYC people are not happy about not seeing Enterprise in HD, their situation is different; WWOR is broadcasting Yankees games during the hours of Enterprise and WWOR are replaying the show over the weekend in SD. Remember, KCOP and WWOR are owned by NewsCorp. UPN in DMA # 1 & 2 is such a disgrace. (Head over to the NYC OTA thread to see what I mean.)

"KABC is taking local news to a new high"? The trailer's background clips did seem to be 16x9, but it was hard to tell. If "high"'s the play on words we're hoping for, do you think all the cameras or just the in-studio ones will be HD? I guess we'll find out soon enough.

By the way, the KCAL 9 HD to the Max show tonight was pretty sweet ("The Living Sea"). Bring on some more KCAL, cuz me likes...a lot.

Taking breaking news to a new high.......it's a great clue! It should be fun. Check out the newscasts Monday afternoon.

Whatever KABC is doing is going to start at 4pm today. I may not be home, so I'm scheduling the news on MyHD. Oh I can't wait. Let's just hope it's HD.

Check us all out...we're all excited about...the news?!:)

You know, I saw the ad yesterday and every shot was an aerial view in promo. Maybe they bought a new helicopter and it has nothing to do with HD. I guess we'll see in four hours.

I saw a second promo last night that changed the VO from "a new high" to something a along the lines of "a new level of clarity." That language cinched for me that their talking HD.

bwb

Originally posted by Edwood
After Enterprise is gone, I might as well delete UPN from my channel list.


Boy do I ever second that statement....

Originally posted by bobpenn
You know, I saw the ad yesterday and every shot was an aerial view in promo. Maybe they bought a new helicopter and it has nothing to do with HD. I guess we'll see in four hours.

My other thought was the they probably bought a blimp to call their own. KABC touts whatever it is as their newest thing much like Live Doppler 7000 a couple years ago. There's lot of things that helped the newscasts in recent years, one being the live dopplers, the other being the live traffic condition maps; but they the description of this next thing sounds so much like it'll be HDTV. Like I said before, if it doesn't come out to be HD news, it's probably a live blimp or long range mountaintop cameras that can zoom really far. I'm just hoping for HD.

Well... it's nearly 4pm... what's the story?

the 4pm newscast seems business-as-usual. wtf???

Biz as usual; one of the reporters is on the KABC helipad and says it's a "new era in broadcasting". But no HD. My other assumption is probably an infrared camera.

maybe someone forgot to flip the switch.

HD helicopter!!!!!!!!!!!!! AIR 7 HD

Is that a guess or did they announce it.

Only the helicopter shot is HD, the whole newscast is still SD. But it looks so good. I'm so glad I'm recording this historic moment. THANK YOU KABC-DT. Car chases will never be the same.

Just watched the special coverage on the 4pm newscast. As said above, KABC now has one helicopter equipped with an HD camera. The demonstration was incredible. Unfortunately, the whole newscast isn't in HD, so you'll have to watch their DT channel to even see it...but I hate the 4:3 bars....damn (they only disappear when showing Air-7 HD feeds). It will make a HUGE difference when watching breaking news etc. Car chases, fires, floods, rescues, etc. will never look the same...

This latest upgrade to KABC will be totally lost on those who have no previous exposure to HD, but the newscasters are making quite a big deal about it. This must not have been a cheap upgrade.

There will be another demonstration on the 5pm news. At 4pm, the weather was on early, and the HD demonstration was almost 6 minutes long!

Why not do the entire broadcast in HD?

I can understand not being able to have/afford every single remote camera in HD, but they should be able to do all the in-studio stuff relatively inexpensively.

No?

bwb

I'm sure we heard about other stations in Raleigh, Seattle, Denver, and Cleveland having HD newscasts, but none of those statiions except Fox in Cleveland are network O&O. Even with just the copter being in HD, it's nice that LA has something in HD on the local news. In fact, I don't mind if it's just the helicopter. I beleive WRAL and KUSA already has HD copters. With HD copters, we are breaking two barriers here. One, is remote HD transmission, which is still next to impossible in handheld units, video compression makes HD remotes possible. Another barrier is having something in LA news in HD. As small as the HD market is, I am too surprise that they made a big deal about it. Oh, they just had a shot of Griffith Park with the lowlands in the background. WOW, I'm gonna find a way to put up screencaps. PM me if you are intererested in screencaps, but wait til 6:30pm for the whold newscast to finish.

Originally posted by bwb
Why not do the entire broadcast in HD?

I can understand not being able to have/afford every single remote camera in HD, but they should be able to do all the in-studio stuff relatively inexpensively.

No?

bwb

That's what's so strange about this. To get that HD signal in the newscast they have to be passing the video through HD gear. Why not just spring for HD studio cameras, which aren't that expensive at the same time?

m

Well, they just invested in a new HD helicopter. Maybe they are doing this to be a status symbol in LA broadcasting; like how KTLA was the first with live television newscopters (they pioneered it). Right now, they are just showing it off, they haven't taken the copter any farther from KABC station in Glendale. KABC already has 2 SD copters in use. Only the SD copter is being used in Tustin for their breaking news. Plus you noticed that they can't use the HD copter shot with Dallas Raines, so I am guessing that the HD signal is probably inserted near the transmission lines and not in the production stage as they can't chroma key Dallas over the HD copter shot. So there is a technical limitation (like how some stations can't put weather alerts over HD programming without doing it in SD). Also, they also unveiled their 7 day weather forecast, but it wasn't as hyped as AIR 7 HD.