Yes, that's the one with the SM Pier. If no local commercials runs during a Leno break, then you'll see that screen; the band music plays through in real time from getting into commercials to getting back to the show. There was also another problem not too long before that where the SD upconversion was messed up from KNBC and any local SD upconversion (The Channel 4 News and local commercials); that problem was the 4:3 being cropped to 16:9 (top and bottom chopped off, but width is filled); that problem also had some nasty noise accompanied with it. Seems like somethings been going on at KNBC; I sure wish they could just not switch out of NBC HD West and just leave it on that until they fix the problem, as NBC will constantly stay HD that way; however, they won't be happy that their local inserts and news are not going through.

For LA-based LA-originating technical problems, you can call "the mountain" (aka "maintenance") when there are audio or video anomalies: 818-840-3799. You can ask for Robin during the day (he's very good), but they're quite responsive even at night. Generally they're aware of the problem, but sometimes a phone call helps.

To make more significant complaints, especially about for ongoing or repeated issues and problems, call the boss, Steve Colley in Burbank: 818-840-3375. He's very smart.

These are technical people and are clearly familiar with all of the A/V technical details and headaches involved with network HD feeds coming out of NY.

I hope KNBC doesn't mess up tonight :(

KJLA's digital signal (on ch. 49) has the usual programming on 57-1. They are also transmitting a digital signal as 99-1 that is a USDTV ad (12 small screens and one slightly larger with audio) with the NASA Select video and audio on 99-1. In addition, 99-2 is labeled ESPN, 99-3 is labeled ESPN2, 99-6 is labeled FOOD, and 99-9 is labeled HGTV. However, 99-2 through 99-9 are blank; no programming is available on those channels.

Is this some employee playing around? They definitely don't have permission from the cable channels (ESPN, Food, and HGTV) to retransmit their broadcasts.

Take care,
Don

I suspect it's part of the USDTV service, which will now, apparently never take off here.

Hello. I live in Mission Viejo and use a rooftop antenna to receive most channels that my cable company doesn't offer. I am a newbie so this may be a very stupid question. With that said here it goes:


Do all of the channels i receive get brought to me by Mount Wilson? If so why are some channels very reliable with a good signal while others aren't. NBC,WB,ABC,KCAL,KCET,KDOC are all very reliable but ,FOX and CBS aren't. I also just recently started to receive UPN with a very weak signal. Do they show any shows in HD?

Does anyone know the exact location of Mount Wilson? In the past i just movie the antenna until I receive a good signal from most of the stations i care about but it would be great to know the exact position to point it.

On a semi related topic I would request that all of you to send KTLA (WB) an email complaining about there second logo. I have sent several emails in the past but nothing has come of it. Maybe if enough people complain about that horrible thing changes will be made. I have stopped watching the WB altogether and only check on it occasionally to see if they finally removed the second logo.

NBC, KTLA, KCAL, KCET, KTTV, KCOP and KCBS are all on Mount Wilson, which is located north of Pasadena. I don't know about the other stations.

KCOP does not currently broadcast any HD, although UPN does provide some to the affiliates.

Hello. I live in Mission Viejo and use a rooftop antenna to receive most channels that my cable company doesn't offer. I am a newbie so this may be a very stupid question. With that said here it goes:


Do all of the channels i receive get brought to me by Mount Wilson? If so why are some channels very reliable with a good signal while others aren't. NBC,WB,ABC,KCAL,KCET,KDOC are all very reliable but ,FOX and CBS aren't. I also just recently started to receive UPN with a very weak signal. Do they show any shows in HD?

Does anyone know the exact location of Mount Wilson? In the past i just movie the antenna until I receive a good signal from most of the stations i care about but it would be great to know the exact position to point it.

On a semi related topic I would request that all of you to send KTLA (WB) an email complaining about there second logo. I have sent several emails in the past but nothing has come of it. Maybe if enough people complain about that horrible thing changes will be made. I have stopped watching the WB altogether and only check on it occasionally to see if they finally removed the second logo.
Go to antennaweb.org, plug in your address, then you'll get the direction of MtWilson. You can also see a map of your location & where to point the antenna. I used a cheapie compass to help with aiming.

I had the hardest time receiving UPN. Must be a weak source signal compared to the others. No HD shows currently on UPN (apparently used to have one of the Star Trek shows in HD, but never saw it).

Just saw the Angels-Yankee game today on Fox. Is that just SD formatted to 16x9? I'm pretty sure true 720p (Fox's HD resolution) HD looks better than that.

Thanks for the responses guys. I will have to look into those things. One question though... If all of those stations come from Mt Wilson why are the signal strengths so vastly different?

I'm getting replies back(thanks NBC). Does anyone remember when the switching started happening? I knew it was this Mon and Tues, but I forgot that it happened last week as well. TonyW79SFV- The splash screen you're referring to- was that the one of the Santa Monica Pier and was on for over a minute and you could hear the band playing in the background? I remembered that, but forgot what day it was. I was timeshifting so not sure exactly how long it lasted, but it was over a minute for sure. If anyone else knows what day that happened it would help. It's nice to know someone is trying to help us out at NBC. I'll guess we'll see if they've fixed anything tonight...


Happened for 1/2 of Vegas on Monday Night.

Thanks for the responses guys. I will have to look into those things. One question though... If all of those stations come from Mt Wilson why are the signal strengths so vastly different?

Different frequencies (channels) have different characteristics, different power output and different antennas.

Different frequencies (channels) have different characteristics, different power output and different antennas.

To add to that: The different transmitting antennas create different patterns meaning the signal may favor one area over another. That, plus all of the other variables, means that just about every location is unique -- no single solution works in every case. Still, using the best antenna and good quality coax (no longer than is absolutely necessary) will ensure that the strongest signal is delivered to your receiver.

One caveat about the receiving antenna, it can be a problem if the antenna is TOO good. An antenna with too much gain for the location can cause overload or pick up reflected signals (multipath) that degrade the quality of the received signals.

Take care,
Don

Just saw the Angels-Yankee game today on Fox. Is that just SD formatted to 16x9? I'm pretty sure true 720p (Fox's HD resolution) HD looks better than that.


I think those were regular 4:3 SD cameras, cropped to 16:9 and scaled up to 720p. It looked horrible on analog also.

I think those were regular 4:3 SD cameras, cropped to 16:9 and scaled up to 720p. It looked horrible on analog also.
If true, good to know it's not just me then. I wouldn't say it looked horrible, just nowhere near HD-quality. Better to watch games in 16x9 I guess.

No HD shows currently on UPN (apparently used to have one of the Star Trek shows in HD, but never saw it).

There are several shows on UPN in HD, it's just that KCOP isn't passing them.

Does anyone else have a/v sync problems with KCAL? I usually notice it during news, don't think it was too bad for Laker games, and don't watch much anything else they show. I get audio slightly ahead, maybe a half-second, not more though. I use both a HDTV Wonder and FusionHDTV 2 for computer and it's on both.
If anyone can chime in, thanks.

Question - might be off-topic......

I am a DirecTV subscriber living in Los Angeles. I get my local channels via DirecTV - and now want to get my locals in HD.

Since the D* west coast HD distant signal happens to be all the local L.A. stations I am already getting - seems like a no brainer that I would be allowed to get those same channels in HD.

Am I correct??

Any update on the KNBC-HD situation?

I'll contact him tomorrow and hopefully if it's fixed for tonight, I'll have something good to say.

Anyone with KCAL problem? Anyone??? Anyone???

I'll contact him tomorrow and hopefully if it's fixed for tonight, I'll have something good to say.

Anyone with KCAL problem? Anyone??? Anyone???

If i see a problem I'll tell you but I think KCAL uses the same system as KCBS and I don't notice any problem with KCBS.

KNBC-HD is messing up right now on Las Vegas ... so it's not fixed.

Does anyone else have a/v sync problems with KCAL? I usually notice it during news, don't think it was too bad for Laker games, and don't watch much anything else they show. I get audio slightly ahead, maybe a half-second, not more though. I use both a HDTV Wonder and FusionHDTV 2 for computer and it's on both.
If anyone can chime in, thanks.

I was waiting for someone, with the same equipment that you have, to speak up. I use an LG LST-4200A and I watch Channel 9's news alot. I don't recall ever seeing any vocal sync problems.

Take care,
Don

NBC, KTLA, KCAL, KCET, KTTV, KCOP and KCBS are all on Mount Wilson, which is located north of Pasadena. I don't know about the other stations.

KCOP does not currently broadcast any HD, although UPN does provide some to the affiliates.


http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/7954/mtwilsonantennafarm36ff.th.jpg (http://img28.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mtwilsonantennafarm36ff.jpg)

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/1860/mtwilsonantennafarm20lo.th.jpg (http://img28.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mtwilsonantennafarm20lo.jpg)

Not fixed. Leno is in SD as i type this.

Not fixed. Leno is in SD as i type this.I called 818-840-3799 to report the problem. They said they'd pass the "throw the switch" request on to "the trigger man".

Three minutes later it popped from SD to HD.

Then after the next commercial break it popped back from HD to SD. I called again, but this time no answer. So I called 818-840-4444 and told whoever answered to call Engineering (Scotty?) to tell them to THROW THE DAMN SWITCH AGAIN, because Leno was NOT IN in HD AGAIN!!

Five minutes later it popped from SD to HD, again. Fortunately this was in time for Gisele.

Tomorrow I will call Steve Colley in Burbank to complain about this ongoing problem and the apparent failure to get it resolved. Everyone else should also call to complain, and maybe they'll realize that there actually are DTV/HD viewers out there. Phone 818-840-3375 and complain.

I called 818-840-3799 to report the problem. They said they'd pass the "throw the switch" request on to "the trigger man".

Three minutes later it popped from SD to HD.

Then after the next commercial break it popped back from HD to SD. I called again, but this time no answer. So I called 818-840-4444 and told whoever answered to call Engineering (Scotty?) to tell them to THROW THE DAMN SWITCH AGAIN, because Leno was NOT IN in HD AGAIN!!

Five minutes later it popped from SD to HD, again. Fortunately this was in time for Gisele.

Tomorrow I will call Steve Colley in Burbank to complain about this ongoing problem and the apparent failure to get it resolved. Everyone else should also call to complain, and maybe they'll realize that there actually are DTV/HD viewers out there. Phone 818-840-3375 and complain.


OMG I noticed that they went from SD to HD in an instant last night. But they messed up several times during Las Vegas, Leno and Conan, and the All Night repeats. There really is a trigger man? He sucks. I'd like to tell him a thing or two. Like how can you mess up so badly 50% of the time, when really all you have to do is pay attention. A trained monkey could do that.

Someone needs to get fired. This is ridiculous that someone can't do their job properly. As far as I know, the HD broadcasts on NBC were perfect for months, until two weeks ago. I really enjoy how Fox, CBS have nearly perfect transitions from local SD to HD programming. ABC isn't perfect, but the SD flubs are only a second or two at most. I've known KTLA to mess up once in a while but not to this extent.

Call Steve Colley? I have to complain also.

At about 12:05 AM Sunday night 7/31/05 KNBC digital went off the air and was still off 15 minutes later. I had hoped they were doing that to fix things but apparently not.

Rick R

Hopefully this is good news. They(KNBC) are testing some things out right now as they may have run into some problems with their switcher that switches from HD to the SD upconvert. So hopefully they will get the issues worked out soon!!!

Thanks DRDenton. I've thought for the most part it probably is an issue on my system, since it's the channel I have the most a/v sync problems on. Since it's just the news though it's not that big of a deal.
If anyone else can respond I'd still appreciate it.
Thanks.

If they really have a live person doing the switching from SD to HD (after a commercial break), that is really amazing -- and I don't mean that as a positive. The person who should be fired is the engineering manager who failed to make this process automatic. It sounds like it automatically drops from HD to SD; the same should be true when the programming source is providing higher quality content.

Just spoke with Steve Colley who was seconds away from pressing SEND on an email regarding this problem. He said he definitely was aware of the issue of flipping back and forth between SD and HD (perhaps did all of you call him today?) and that it was "under investigation". But they think they know where the cause lies.

I then asked him if their guess was that it was a technical (i.e. hardware) problem or a "personnel" problem, and he again replied that it was "under investigation". Apparently he's aware of the AVS Forum and probably didn't want to give away any internal info.

Anyway, I think the ball is finally rolling now. Hopefully the solution will arrive soon, and will be permanent.

Hopefully it is fixed permanently soon. In the meantime, if it's a problem with automation, KNBC should have a guy working OT throwing the hard switch until it's fixed, at least during prime time.

Hard to believe this is not an automation problem. The pattern is the same every night. First segment in HD, next in SD, back to HD and so on. Willl be interested to hear the resolution.

I didn't catch the very beginning but i saw most of Leno tonight. It didn't go SD even once while i was watching. Hopefully they have "fixed" whatever problems they were having and we can get back to enjoying HD television.

It seems that on TNT-HD, for example, the HD programming and the SD commercials and programming go back and forth constantly without any problems. It seems so effortless on TNT-HD. Why is there a 'switch' on the OTA networks?

It seems that on TNT-HD, for example, the HD programming and the SD commercials and programming go back and forth constantly without any problems. Just in passing, I find TNT-HD (on Comcast I assume? certainly not OTA) totally unwatchable. They stretch everything they show to 16x9, not caring that this looks like crap. I guess they think their viewers will believe this is "HD" since it's 16x9, but it's just insulting.

I particularly dislike that they are showing "NYPD Blue" from SD 4x3 prints stretched to 16x9. It looks HORRIBLE!!! Couldn't they have obtained the HD 16x9 version from ABC???

Calling TNT-HD "HD" is a misnomer. I never watched TNT before it offered TNT-HD, and I won't start now.

Other channels come in fine (though I can't remember if KABC--also 720p was one of them). I'm using the on-board video (2.4 MHz P4).

KTTV (Fox 11) repeatedly crashed the Fusion software even though it briefly claimed it was 100% strength signal.

I couldn't leave well enough alone--so I tried it again and got this warning after the screen switched to 640x480 4-bit:

ialmrnt5 display driver has stopped working

and even though there was no picture I could still hear the sound on the Fox channel.

Other times the Fusion software crashes or Windows crashes and the computer reboots.

Anyone else seeing similar problems?



Okay ignore all that up there :rolleyes: An update on the video driver fixed everything.

TIM

Channel 4 problem looks fixed on Tuesday. No problems with Jay Leno.

Other channels come in fine (though I can't remember if KABC--also 720p was one of them). I'm using the on-board video (2.4 MHz P4).

KTTV (Fox 11) repeatedly crashed the Fusion software even though it briefly claimed it was 100% strength signal.

--- the rest of the message has been cut out ----

TIM

I would reduce the signal strength (use a different antenna or put a 2-way or 4-way splitter in the coax upstream from the board) to see if you're not overloading the tuner. I don't believe you should be receiving 100% quality; that's just a little too good ;-))

Take care,
Don

Yeah. I have never heard of a person having that good of a signal. I would think you would literally need to live next door to the broadcast tower to receive a signal like that. The highest signal i have ever received was around 75% for KTLA (WB) and that was with an amplifier.

Is KNBC-HD messed up right now? I'm having trouble getting good signals on some channels today (ABC, Fox, UPN earlier)

ABC weather warning hell.

It seems like everyday ABC has had constant flash flood warnings during shows this past week. What is the point of having separate weather channels if they are going to have long text overlays during shows? These warnings dont even apply to me. And if they are SO important and urgent then why don't they have the warnings during commercials? Sorry. I know these warnings have possibly helped many people in those problem areas but it is still a bit annoying and distracting when you are trying to watch your regularly scheduled program.

ABC weather warning hell.

It seems like everyday ABC has had constant flash flood warnings during shows this past week. What is the point of having separate weather channels if they are going to have long text overlays during shows? These warnings dont even apply to me. And if they are SO important and urgent then why don't they have the warnings during commercials? Sorry. I know these warnings have possibly helped many people in those problem areas but it is still a bit annoying and distracting when you are trying to watch your regularly scheduled program.

To turn off the alerts that don't apply to you, enter your zip code into your HDTV receiver :D

The next generation of HDTV receivers will have a GPS option. Alerts, that don't apply to your area, will not appear on the screen. That'll save you from having to enter your zip code.

Have fun and take care,
Don

To turn off the alerts that don't apply to you, enter your zip code into your HDTV receiver :D

The next generation of HDTV receivers will have a GPS option. Alerts, that don't apply to your area, will not appear on the screen. That'll save you from having to enter your zip code.

Have fun and take care,
Don


Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately i was talking about my rooftop antenna hooked up to my computer using a hd tv tuner. I use the MyHD tuner and i dont have the slightest idea how to input my zip code into it. I also think the warning messages appear on my HD digital cable box but i would have to check to make sure. I dont know how to input my zip code in that either.

I would reduce the signal strength (use a different antenna or put a 2-way or 4-way splitter in the coax upstream from the board) to see if you're not overloading the tuner. I don't believe you should be receiving 100% quality; that's just a little too good ;-))

Take care,
Don

As of 6:15 P.M. Aug. 9
Location: Downey, CA

Fusion HDTV 3 Card & Cheap Radio Shack Set Top Antenna

KCBS 100% 29.5 db
KNBC 70% 18.9 db--oscilates between 63-75%
KTLA 87% 23.5 db-oscilates between 83-94%
KABC 71% 19.3 db--oscilates between 65-79%
KTTV 94% 25.6 db--oscilates between 87-100%
KCET 100% 27.8 db

Don't know if these figures are accurate, but that's what it's saying.

TIM

HD alert on KCAL 9, maybe....we'll see

NCIS
The Weak Link (Repeat) 08/13/2005 9:00 PM, 1 hr
Gibbs' team investigates the death of a SEAL during a training exercise, and come to suspect that it wasn't an accident, but a murder. Cdr. Rainer: Adam Baldwin. Larry Clannon: Doug Savant. CIA Agent Kramer: Johnny Sneed. Lt. Johnson: Tom R. Hughes. Agent McGee: Sean Murray.
Cast & Credits: Mark Harmon, Michael Weatherly, David McCallum, Sasha Alexander, Pauley Perrette
Drama/Other
TVPG, English, Replay, 2004

HDTV - presented in 1080i

FYI: KCAL9's already been showing HD in LA area on Sundays from 6-7p called HD to the Max (Imax movies in 16x9 HD). Looks awesome, so am hoping they really are adding more.

58 KLCS has "migrated" to 41??

anyone else have this?

thanks

58 KLCS has "migrated" to 41??

anyone else have this?

thanks

I don't see it now -- 4 PM on Thursday -- they probably fixed it sometime back.

Other changes of note:
Channel 57 now has a 57-2 (KXLA) and a 57-3 (KVMD) where it only had 57-1 before. Since KXLA already carries itself and KVMD on 44-1 and 44-2, it is odd that they would be carried on KJLA too. (The dot pattern that is evident in KVMD's video on 44-2 is there on 57-3, too.)

A week or more ago, KRCA dropped the video on 62-2. That subchannel used to have the video from their sister station in San Diego. The subchannel is still there (as are 62-3 and 62-4) but it is not carrying any video; just a blank screen.

Take care,
Don

Well, I came into the fold today. Bought a used Samsung receiver online and plugged it in. I was convinced that I would be playing "the boob's game" here in Westwood and anticipated utter defeat in receiving any signal.

First of all, after living with all those damned little wire circles for so many years, I couldn't even find a CRAPPY UHF antenna in the house. Browsed through this thread for suggestions. Struck out locally on finding a Silver Sensor but picked up the recommended Radio Shack interior antenna.

Hooked it up. Bingo. About a dozen or more stations. A little tweaking and twisting. A few more. Getting the locals except for CBS. Watched NBC and the PBS HD feed this evening and was pretty darned impressed. So sharp. Such OUTSTANDING color fidelity. (In fact, the color fidelity probably impressed me more than the resolution. After all those years of NTSC, it was pretty refreshing to see subtle color gradations.) Viewing with my XGA front projector, so with a 16:9 projector that makes a little better use of the available HD rez, I might be EVEN MORE impressed with the resolution and clarity.

UPDATE: By turning the UHF figure 8 about 20 degrees, I suddenly got CBS on 60, too. So that gives me all the networks with that little Radio Shack antenna.

FYI, I'm in Westwood between Wilshire and Santa Monica about a block away from the Mormon Temple. 2nd floor of a condo but on the south side of the building.

boblinds,
Pretty easy, huh? I think people are mislead by cable and sat companies that you have to pay for HD. OTA HD is free everyone.

I went to Fairburn Elementary, right around the corner from you. Nice area. I was bused-in from the "bad" part of town. :)

I recently switched from Comcast and QAM HDs to Dish Network. I was very afraid that I would have practically no network HD except for CBS (via 148 dish). However, my friend gave me a Zenith Silver. and I connected it to my Dish 942 (digital OTA channels allowed only).

It is absolutely amazing how many OTA channels the antenna picked up (Corona, CA), and it is indoors. I'd like to know of a website where I can track the LA DMA stations that have HD or don't have HD and which ones I can remove from my OTA HD lineup as there are tons of sub channels that were picke dup. I now have almost every OTA HD channel complete with guide listings and the ability to do direct OTA HD recordings on the 942.

Rasheed

Has CBS or MT Wilson recently made any changes? About a month ago my signal went from reliable and decent to almost non existent. I just went up on my roof and played around with the antenna but no matter were I pointed it there was no improvement. Now it is at 0%. I used to be able to receive CBS with a basic indoor antenna and I cant understand why my rooftop antenna (can receive NBC, ABC, WB, FOX, KCET, KDOC, KCAL, KMEX, and recently even UPN....) cant do at least as good a job. Especially since I didnt make any changes before the signal went bad. I was even able to receive CBS with a good signal before I had an amplifier.

I hope this is the right forum for this question.
What is the difference (if any) between a QAM and ATSC tuner? Are they essentially two ways to describe the same thing?
TIA,

ATSC tuner receives On-The-Air Digital TV signals, which employ 8-VSB (eight-level vestigial sideband) modulation.
A few ATSC tuners provide a QAM tuner to demodulate an unencrypted Digital Cable signal, which uses QAM-64/QAM-256 modulation.

If 1) your ATSC tuner includes a QAM tuner capability,
or 2) your HDTV has a "Plug-and-Play" CableCard slot (looks like a PCMCIA slot, and always comes with a QAM tuner),
then you should be able to watch whichever local (unecrypted) HD channels are on your cable system.
On most cable systems, only minimal "Basic Cable" is required to watch local HD channels.
[Cable systems "shouldn't" encrypt local HD channels.]

If you insert a CableCard "POD" (obtained from your cable company) into an HDTV's CableCard slot,
then you will be able to decrypt/watch the remaining digital cable channels.
However, since the 1st generation CableCard is only one-way, there are a few things that a normal STB can do that the CableCard will not.
This includes the interactive program guide (Yikes!!!) and the ability to order PPV and On-Demand programs. (You may still be able to order via phone.)

This may be a silly question but....

The previous tenants left a Dish antennae in the patio. Can I use this for OTA DTV? It seems like I would be able to but how does the quality compare to say the Zenith Silver? Or other OTA antennas for that matter.

I would check for myself but I just haven't received my tv as of yet (still in shipment).

Well, I came into the fold today. Bought a used Samsung receiver online and plugged it in. I was convinced that I would be playing "the boob's game" here in Westwood and anticipated utter defeat in receiving any signal.

First of all, after living with all those damned little wire circles for so many years, I couldn't even find a CRAPPY UHF antenna in the house. Browsed through this thread for suggestions. Struck out locally on finding a Silver Sensor but picked up the recommended Radio Shack interior antenna.

Hooked it up. Bingo. About a dozen or more stations. A little tweaking and twisting. A few more. Getting the locals except for CBS. Watched NBC and the PBS HD feed this evening and was pretty darned impressed. So sharp. Such OUTSTANDING color fidelity. (In fact, the color fidelity probably impressed me more than the resolution. After all those years of NTSC, it was pretty refreshing to see subtle color gradations.) Viewing with my XGA front projector, so with a 16:9 projector that makes a little better use of the available HD rez, I might be EVEN MORE impressed with the resolution and clarity.

UPDATE: By turning the UHF figure 8 about 20 degrees, I suddenly got CBS on 60, too. So that gives me all the networks with that little Radio Shack antenna.

FYI, I'm in Westwood between Wilshire and Santa Monica about a block away from the Mormon Temple. 2nd floor of a condo but on the south side of the building.

Those radio shack internal antennas were worthless for me. I am actually more impressed that those worked for you - especially considering you location and how shaded from Mt. Wilson I would have assume you would be in that location.

I can only assume you are far enough South to actually have some type of line of site to Mt. Wilson as I know HDTV Fans several blocks north in condos that have no reception without a roof external antenna.

Edit - yep....take a look...you just missed the bulk of the mountain shadow.

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/6678/lax0st.th.jpg (http://img262.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lax0st.jpg)

You must be living right or just plain lucky :)

This may be a silly question but....

The previous tenants left a Dish antennae in the patio. Can I use this for OTA DTV? It seems like I would be able to but how does the quality compare to say the Zenith Silver? Or other OTA antennas for that matter.

I would check for myself but I just haven't received my tv as of yet (still in shipment).
Do you mean a Dish Network sat dish with a clip-on OTA antenna? If so, I haven't read too many favorable reports of those things. Can't hurt to try it though.

Edit - yep....take a look...you just missed the bulk of the mountain shadow.

Cool picture. My wife wants to know where you got that.

Sonuvagun, another couple blocks north and I would have been out of luck. I'll probably have bad karma for years after cashing in on this one. :D

Thanks very much!!!!

By the way, I don't know if what I'm about to tell will be encouraging or discouraging to those who have yet to venture into West LA HDTV, but -- truth is -- I'm not getting a direct line-of-sight from Mt. Wilson. In fact, I'm receiving the signal bounce from the buildings across the street. I'm on the second floor, SW side of our condo and if I point my internal antenna at Mt. Wilson, I'm aiming right at the bricks in my fireplace. However, pointing the antenna out the windows in a S or SW direction gets me pretty much everything.

Oh boy, I guess this means an even HIGHER karma bill, huh?

ATSC tuner receives On-The-Air Digital TV signals, which employ 8-VSB (eight-level vestigial sideband) modulation.
A few ATSC tuners provide a QAM tuner to demodulate an unencrypted Digital Cable signal, which uses QAM-64/QAM-256 modulation.

If 1) your ATSC tuner includes a QAM tuner capability,
or 2) your HDTV has a "Plug-and-Play" CableCard slot (looks like a PCMCIA slot, and always comes with a QAM tuner),
then you should be able to watch whichever local (unecrypted) HD channels are on your cable system.
On most cable systems, only minimal "Basic Cable" is required to watch local HD channels.
[Cable systems "shouldn't" encrypt local HD channels.]

If you insert a CableCard "POD" (obtained from your cable company) into an HDTV's CableCard slot,
then you will be able to decrypt/watch the remaining digital cable channels.
However, since the 1st generation CableCard is only one-way, there are a few things that a normal STB can do that the CableCard will not.
This includes the interactive program guide (Yikes!!!) and the ability to order PPV and On-Demand programs. (You may still be able to order via phone.)

Thanks for the info. My TV (Sony XS955) can capture may HD channels (local) from Adelphia's feed. I broke down and got the cablecard for simplicity and ease. I had, well documented in the Sony XS thread, problems with my tuner before I got the CC but a firmware update fixed it.

HD alert on KCAL 9, maybe....we'll see

NCIS
The Weak Link (Repeat) 08/13/2005 9:00 PM, 1 hr
Gibbs' team investigates the death of a SEAL during a training exercise, and come to suspect that it wasn't an accident, but a murder. Cdr. Rainer: Adam Baldwin. Larry Clannon: Doug Savant. CIA Agent Kramer: Johnny Sneed. Lt. Johnson: Tom R. Hughes. Agent McGee: Sean Murray.
Cast & Credits: Mark Harmon, Michael Weatherly, David McCallum, Sasha Alexander, Pauley Perrette
Drama/Other
TVPG, English, Replay, 2004

HDTV - presented in 1080i

Interesting that the CBS bug is in the corner as it airs! Yes I know CBS owns KCAL too.

HD alert on KCAL 9, maybe....we'll see

NCIS
The Weak Link (Repeat) 08/13/2005 9:00 PM, 1 hr
Gibbs' team investigates the death of a SEAL during a training exercise, and come to suspect that it wasn't an accident, but a murder. Cdr. Rainer: Adam Baldwin. Larry Clannon: Doug Savant. CIA Agent Kramer: Johnny Sneed. Lt. Johnson: Tom R. Hughes. Agent McGee: Sean Murray.
Cast & Credits: Mark Harmon, Michael Weatherly, David McCallum, Sasha Alexander, Pauley Perrette
Drama/Other
TVPG, English, Replay, 2004

HDTV - presented in 1080i

I'm just seeing this now just as I read your thread. Yes, NCIS is HD on KCAL. However, this is CBS network programming that is not being shown on KCBS tonight because KCBS is running local programming (football); so CBS programming is temporarily being shown on KCAL. Both KCBS and KCAL are sister stations and are allowed to do this.

Cool picture. My wife wants to know where you got that.

Sonuvagun, another couple blocks north and I would have been out of luck. I'll probably have bad karma for years after cashing in on this one. :D

Thanks very much!!!!

By the way, I don't know if what I'm about to tell will be encouraging or discouraging to those who have yet to venture into West LA HDTV, but -- truth is -- I'm not getting a direct line-of-sight from Mt. Wilson. In fact, I'm receiving the signal bounce from the buildings across the street. I'm on the second floor, SW side of our condo and if I point my internal antenna at Mt. Wilson, I'm aiming right at the bricks in my fireplace. However, pointing the antenna out the windows in a S or SW direction gets me pretty much everything.

Oh boy, I guess this means an even HIGHER karma bill, huh?


Google Maps....actually their satellite photo service. There is an earlier photo in this thread from the satellites I posted of the Mt. Wilson Antenna Farm.

Great program. I've been able to run satellite shots essentially from the satellite location looking at someone's house to see if they have a clear shot or lots of trees for trying to pick up D* or E*. It's freaked quite a few out.

Actually you can see I put the pin for the Mormon Temple several blocks north of it's actual location as you said your condo was there...but I figured it would make more sense to label it as such.

And yes, you just missed the shading - or probably only shaded by a much lower elevation at the end of the ridge as you can see.

I'm just seeing this now just as I read your thread. Yes, NCIS is HD on KCAL. However, this is CBS network programming that is not being shown on KCBS tonight because KCBS is running local programming (football); so CBS programming is temporarily being shown on KCAL. Both KCBS and KCAL are sister stations and are allowed to do this.

Good to know KCBS/KCAL has the infrastructure to do this.

KNBC did it again. NASCAR in HD now it's in SD. Started OK. They even just announced they're in HD!
:rolleyes:

KNBC did it again. NASCAR in HD now it's in SD. Started OK. They even just announced they're in HD!
:rolleyes:

Your statement should've been preceeded by "ooops!". :D

I hope they aren't going back to their old habits.

Your statement should've been preceeded by "ooops!". :D

I hope they aren't going back to their old habits.

Yup. Prime time is still in SD, Oooops!

I called 818-840-3799 to report the problem. They said they'd pass the "throw the switch" request on to "the trigger man".

Three minutes later it popped from SD to HD.

Then after the next commercial break it popped back from HD to SD. I called again, but this time no answer. So I called 818-840-4444 and told whoever answered to call Engineering (Scotty?) to tell them to THROW THE DAMN SWITCH AGAIN, because Leno was NOT IN in HD AGAIN!!

Five minutes later it popped from SD to HD, again. Fortunately this was in time for Gisele.

Tomorrow I will call Steve Colley in Burbank to complain about this ongoing problem and the apparent failure to get it resolved. Everyone else should also call to complain, and maybe they'll realize that there actually are DTV/HD viewers out there. Phone 818-840-3375 and complain.


I just called the first number and told the guy who answered "you're in standard def!" He said he'll check.

In less than 5 minutes the TV popped to HD.

I can make a difference Los Angeles!!! :D ;)

I just called the first number and told the guy who answered "you're in standard def!" He said he'll check.

In less than 5 minutes the TV popped to HD.

I can make a difference Los Angeles!!! :D ;)

That you have to do so with all the West Coast Network Brass watching (or not) speaks volumes.

That you have to do so with all the West Coast Network Brass watching (or not) speaks volumes.


I noticed it stopped being in HD during the NASCAR race. don't know if it got corrected during the day and failed again??

Is anyone getting the kaleidoscope effect on NBC (during Leno)?

Yup, it's been going on since the start of the Hillary Duff performance and is still going on during my beloved Conan.

Bah.

Is anyone getting the kaleidoscope effect on NBC (during Leno)?

Yes, I saw it. Lasted through Hilary Duff on Leno. It was fixed at 12:40 on Conan.

Cheers.

Yup, fixed. But, is this a common error/issue with HD? I'm new and have never seen anything like it; I've seen some pixelation and things of that sort. But, meh. Conan is better now ;)

Funky-Boxey Leno/Conan:

http://www.overmused.com/temp/hdtv_firewire/vlcsnap-1187.png
http://www.overmused.com/temp/hdtv_firewire/vlcsnap-1459.png

Ink Noise: It's not really common. Over the past few years I've only seen this happen on NBC's late night, and not really with much frequency. I'd guess that it's specific to NBC—or maybe even just our KNBC.

Yup, fixed. But, is this a common error/issue with HD? I'm new and have never seen anything like it; I've seen some pixelation and things of that sort. But, meh. Conan is better now ;)

Funky-Boxey Leno/Conan:

http://www.overmused.com/temp/hdtv_firewire/vlcsnap-1187.png
http://www.overmused.com/temp/hdtv_firewire/vlcsnap-1459.png


It is really just pixelization with a much larger granulization. The decoding process is dealing with larger areas when it goes astray. It may be some other part of the process, but it is not really possible to tell as the maufacturers keep their video processing algorithms a very tightly controlled secret. Having dealt with telemetry images among other data, this has a familiar look.

Lee

Ink Noise: It's not really common. Over the past few years I've only seen this happen on NBC's late night, and not really with much frequency. I'd guess that it's specific to NBC—or maybe even just our KNBC.

It's KNBC's past problem; I've seen it happen to The Channel 4 News too.

I'm getting my first HDTV set in a couple of days. I currently have Comcast digital cable. I'm not even sure if Comcast has a HD service out here. When I check their website it says that HD service is not available.

two questions:
1. What's the best OTA attennae to receive UHF and VHF HD broadcasts? I've seen a few antennas and they mostly seem to be for one band but not both.

2. If you happen to live in the area, which company do you recommend for HD service.

I'm probably asking for alot to have Q.2 answered since I'm not sure if many people from the Inland Empire are on this forum/thread. Heck, I just moved here myself. But if you have suggestions for the antennae to use feel free to chime in! :)

Type-in your address in antennaweb.org to see what their recommendations are for type of antenna (size, directionality, amps, UHF/VHF) you'll need. As far as I know, at least in SoCal area, HD is broadcast over digital channels which require only a UHF antenna. So you may not even need one of those honkin' big VHF/UHF combo antennas. Check antennaweb to confirm, since you may receive channels from somewhere other than MtWilson (San Diego???). I can't confirm it, but I've read some stations may switch back to VHF in the future, but if so, antennas are so cheap it wouldn't break the bank to replace it.

Most common brands I see discussed are: ChannelMaster, Radio Shack, Antennasdirect.com, Zenith Silver Sensor and a couple others. Find out what type & size you need first.

I'm going with Directv for HD (have been SD subscriber for years), since Knology Cable has no HD available in my city. Knology sucks. OTA was cool, but had HD feeds (except for around the clock on KCET and KOCE) only during prime time and weekends. For me, I'm getting an Directv HD Tivo soon, but it currently still requires an OTA antenna (until mpeg4 begins) for local HD.

BTW, in case y'all didn't already know, current subscribers can get the DirectvHD Tivo (HR10-250) for less than $200 bucks plus a bunch of programming credits. Go to the HDTV hardware forum for details. Ask for the "shoppers" discount when you call. Just thought I'd share with all my SoCal cohorts.

I'm getting my first HDTV set in a couple of days. I currently have Comcast digital cable. I'm not even sure if Comcast has a HD service out here. When I check their website it says that HD service is not available.

two questions:
1. What's the best OTA attennae to receive UHF and VHF HD broadcasts? I've seen a few antennas and they mostly seem to be for one band but not both.

2. If you happen to live in the area, which company do you recommend for HD service.

I'm probably asking for alot to have Q.2 answered since I'm not sure if many people from the Inland Empire are on this forum/thread. Heck, I just moved here myself. But if you have suggestions for the antennae to use feel free to chime in! :)
ALL HDTV transmissions in this area are UHF -- don't waste your money on a VHF antenna -- just get a good UHF antenna. (The VHF channels use UHF frequencies for their HD transmissions; don't be confused by that.) The Channel Master 4228 (8-bay) is one of the better ones. The Channel Master 4221 (4-bay) may work in your area depending on whether you can see Mt. Wilson or not.

Take care,
Don

At the end of the digital transition there will be stations on 9, 11 and 13 so you will need some VHF ability.

The CM4228 is unusual in that it also provides significant gain for the upper VHF channels.
This subject has been discussed several times in the Antenna thread, as well as a recent repost in the fol thread re the CM4221:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6030562#post6030562

Of course, it is still anybody's guess when the VHF stations will drop analog and switch over to their DTV exciter.
Congressional Law still says the end of 2006....give or take some loop-holes
and lots of talk....talk......talk.....about maybe moving it to later.

I stand by my recommendation to just get a UHF antenna. The VHF stations MAY choose to use their VHF frequencies for HD transmission but they don't have to. Plus, most VHF/UHF antennas don't compare to the UHF only models -- let alone the fact that the UHF antennas are smaller and generally much easier to work with.

Take care,
Don

I stand by my recommendation to just get a UHF antenna. The VHF stations MAY choose to use their VHF frequencies for HD transmission but they don't have to. Plus, most VHF/UHF antennas don't compare to the UHF only models -- let alone the fact that the UHF antennas are smaller and generally much easier to work with.

Take care,
Don

It's already been decided. KCBS will be moving to ch. 9, KTTV will be returning to ch. 11 and KCOP will be returning to ch. 13. I'm not sure about KABC, but I believe they're going back to ch. 7 as well.

Hi everyone,

I'm new to the forum and to HD. I receive HD via DirecTV and live in the Corona area, so I get the four L.A. HD stations (2, 4, 7, 11) but not PBS or KTLA or KCAL or anything like that in HD.

I'm sorry if this question has been asked before, but what's the deal with KABC-DT's format ratio. Everything - HD or standard is in something like 14:9. Their entire newscast seems to be in widescreen (not cropped). I don't know if just "Air 7 HD" or the whole thing.

I'm enjoying the HD so far. Discovery HD has far the sharpest picture on DirecTV, but am enjoying all. Of the commercial nets, I'm most pleased so far with CBS. For some reason they seem to have it the most together IMHO.

Larry

It's already been decided. KCBS will be moving to ch. 9, KTTV will be returning to ch. 11 and KCOP will be returning to ch. 13. I'm not sure about KABC, but I believe they're going back to ch. 7 as well.

Where is KCAL going?

Larry

It's already been decided. KCBS will be moving to ch. 9, KTTV will be returning to ch. 11 and KCOP will be returning to ch. 13. I'm not sure about KABC, but I believe they're going back to ch. 7 as well.
When? If soon, hopefully Directv will get mpeg4 up and running, so I can get everything via sat.

Where is KCAL going?

Larry

I made a mistake. KCAL is returning to ch. 9 and KCBS is moving to KCAL's current DTV channel 43.

The Round One FCC Channel Election Report dated 23 Jun 2005 seems to have left off KTTV-DT,
but presuming it moves to Ch13 as per earlier election results,
the fol. are the expected VHF stations: Ch 7 KABC-DT, Ch9 KCAL-DT, Ch11 KTTV-DT and Ch13 KCOP-DT.

This is always subject to change, but makes a lot of sense given that they already have millions invested in antenna structures,
high power feedlines, high power transmitters, et. al. at these lower channels, and they should also provide better coverage than UHF.

In San Diego, expect to see KFMB-DT return to Ch8 and KOGO-DT return to Ch10.
And XEWT in Tijuana currently occupies Ch12, which will probably, eventually, go digital.

Fortunately, all of the low VHF channels are expected to be vacated in SOCAL.
Which means the bigger VHF antennas will not be needed and interference from FM
stations can be greatly reduced.

Hmmm, maybe the Homeland Security folks would be interested in Ch 2-6.
Or other private broadcast systems....

What I want to know is what are they going to do with all of those "old" UHF DTV transmitters???
Other than a couple that may get recycled for Homeland Security...
except probably with a COFDM exciter rather than 8-VSB.

This is probably a stupid question but it is one I would like answered. Will CBS going to KCAL's old channel 43 affect the ability to receive it? I recently haven't been able to receive CBS on channel 60 yet I receive a very strong signal from KCAL 43. It would be great if i could get that great signal from CBS.

If nothing changes on the channel except it's programming, what do you think?

It's already been decided. KCBS will be moving to ch. 9, KTTV will be returning to ch. 11 and KCOP will be returning to ch. 13. I'm not sure about KABC, but I believe they're going back to ch. 7 as well.
Things can change. Nothing is set in stone at this point.

When the stations drop their analog feeds, the only signals available will be digital. At that point, his cable company will have to offer those signals on the cable system. He may not need ANY antenna at that point.

For the person asking the question, it is a waste of money and complicates the situation to include VHF now. When and IF the situation changes and he decides to continue receiving OTA signals, he can purchase a VHF antenna that suits his needs -- quite possibly a high-VHF antenna, if any.

In a lot of situations it is wise to plan ahead; this is neither one of those situations nor is it one where there is an advantage to purchasing any VHF equipment at this time.

Take care,
Don

It's already been decided. KCBS will be moving to ch. 9, KTTV will be returning to ch. 11 and KCOP will be returning to ch. 13. I'm not sure about KABC, but I believe they're going back to ch. 7 as well.

KTLA will stay on channel 31 and KNBC will be on channel 36, KCET will return to 28. But this all jumps the gun, these are PRELIMINARY selections by the stations and not set in concrete. The stations are free to change their selelction or petition the FCC for something different.

Lee

Things can change. Nothing is set in stone at this point.


KCBS is not returning to ch. 2 and cannot stay on it's current UHF channel since that channel is being withdrawn from TV service. That leaves KCAL/KCBS with KCAL's DTV UHF channel and KCAL's analog VHF channel. That means that either KCAL or KCBS must return to channel 9.

There will be VHF service in the upper VHF band once the analog service is shutoff from as few as one and as many as three stations. No station in it's right mind would keep a 5 million watt UHF transmitter when they can provide equal service with a 300k VHF transmitter. The cost difference is just too great for the small amount of viewers that will ultimately be using the service.

KCBS is abandoning it's channel 2 identity because it has to, since ATSC just doesn't work on channel 2. KTLA has decided to do so because they feel they have enough brand equity in their call letters. They've already dropped all reference to channel 5 in preparation for the switch. The other stations are holding on to what they can.

All indications are now that analog is going to cease in '09. The NAB has agreed to that date and the transition is now moving forward. Why install an antenna that might not work in 3 years?

KCBS is not returning to ch. 2 and cannot stay on it's current UHF channel since that channel is being withdrawn from TV service. That leaves KCAL/KCBS with KCAL's DTV UHF channel and KCAL's analog VHF channel. That means that either KCAL or KCBS must return to channel 9.

There will be VHF service in the upper VHF band once the analog service is shutoff from as few as one and as many as three stations. No station in it's right mind would keep a 5 million watt UHF transmitter when they can provide equal service with a 300k VHF transmitter. The cost difference is just too great for the small amount of viewers that will ultimately be using the service.

KCBS is abandoning it's channel 2 identity because it has to, since ATSC just doesn't work on channel 2. KTLA has decided to do so because they feel they have enough brand equity in their call letters. They've already dropped all reference to channel 5 in preparation for the switch. The other stations are holding on to what they can.

All indications are now that analog is going to cease in '09. The NAB has agreed to that date and the transition is now moving forward. Why install an antenna that might not work in 3 years?

These days can't KCBS just brand themselves as "CBS 2"? since they can give virtual channel numbers on HD sets? (2-1, 2-2, etc.)

And, since this can happen, I wonder if the day is coming when the networks in every city will just call themselves (CBS 2, NBC 4, etc.) and pattern themselves after New York and L.A. (w/Chicago's NBC excepted being on 5), when they have these virtual channels.

Larry

KCBS is not returning to ch. 2 and cannot stay on it's current UHF channel since that channel is being withdrawn from TV service. That leaves KCAL/KCBS with KCAL's DTV UHF channel and KCAL's analog VHF channel. That means that either KCAL or KCBS must return to channel 9.

There will be VHF service in the upper VHF band once the analog service is shutoff from as few as one and as many as three stations. No station in it's right mind would keep a 5 million watt UHF transmitter when they can provide equal service with a 300k VHF transmitter. The cost difference is just too great for the small amount of viewers that will ultimately be using the service.

KCBS is abandoning it's channel 2 identity because it has to, since ATSC just doesn't work on channel 2. KTLA has decided to do so because they feel they have enough brand equity in their call letters. They've already dropped all reference to channel 5 in preparation for the switch. The other stations are holding on to what they can.

All indications are now that analog is going to cease in '09. The NAB has agreed to that date and the transition is now moving forward. Why install an antenna that might not work in 3 years?

Please, get real. None of that means a thing. And, on top of that, none of it relates to a guy, living in Corona, who wants to receive HDTV today. The only antenna he needs or should buy is a good UHF antenna.

If you want to argue some other point, you're wasting your time. Your arguments are hollow. NOTHING IS SET IN STONE! Got it! Any station, including channel 2's digital signal, COULD end up on any unused High VHF or UHF channel that is authorized. Why do you insist that something you read is the way it will end up? Even if it goes as you say (which is EXTREMELY UNLIKELY), it means nothing to the guy who asked the question.

What are you smoking?

Don

ALL HDTV transmissions in this area are UHF -- don't waste your money on a VHF antenna -- just get a good UHF antenna. (The VHF channels use UHF frequencies for their HD transmissions; don't be confused by that.) The Channel Master 4228 (8-bay) is one of the better ones. The Channel Master 4221 (4-bay) may work in your area depending on whether you can see Mt. Wilson or not.

Take care,
Don

Thanks for the great suggestion! After googling the CM 4228 it appears that it may be the only solution for me. Only thing I'm concerned about is that I live on the East side of the condo and Mt. Wilson is north-west from my location. To top it off, our assocation says we can't install any kind of antenna on our patio. I may try the attic since I have access to it and I'm on the top (third) floor. Do you think I will need a pre-amp also?

Walmart has the Phillips Silver Sensor (rebadged Zenith) that I want to try out before getting an outdoor antenna. Or am I just fooling myself?

Here's another noob question. I see alot of posts claiming to get 70-80% reception on a channel. What's the difference between a 20% reception and a 90% reception? I mean, since hd broadcasts are digital shouldn't we get a picture or no picture at all? So even it you're getting 20% that's just as good as getting a 90% reception as long as the signal doesn't completely drop out?

Thanks!

Thanks for the great suggestion! After googling the CM 4228 it appears that it may be the only solution for me. Only thing I'm concerned about is that I live on the East side of the condo and Mt. Wilson is north-west from my location. To top it off, our assocation says we can't install any kind of antenna on our patio. I may try the attic since I have access to it and I'm on the top (third) floor. Do you think I will need a pre-amp also?

Walmart has the Phillips Silver Sensor (rebadged Zenith) that I want to try out before getting an outdoor antenna. Or am I just fooling myself?

Here's another noob question. I see alot of posts claiming to get 70-80% reception on a channel. What's the difference between a 20% reception and a 90% reception? I mean, since hd broadcasts are digital shouldn't we get a picture or no picture at all? So even it you're getting 20% that's just as good as getting a 90% reception as long as the signal doesn't completely drop out?

Thanks!

I'm not 100% but I don't think a Condo Assoc can legally stop you from putting up a small dish or antenna. Anyone??
I use the Silver Sensor and find it great. Buy it where you can return it, just to be sure.

Only thing I'm concerned about is that I live on the East side of the condo and Mt. Wilson is north-west from my location. To top it off, our assocation says we can't install any kind of antenna on our patio. I may try the attic since I have access to it and I'm on the top (third) floor. Do you think I will need a pre-amp also?

Walmart has the Phillips Silver Sensor (rebadged Zenith) that I want to try out before getting an outdoor antenna. Or am I just fooling myself?

Here's another noob question. I see alot of posts claiming to get 70-80% reception on a channel. What's the difference between a 20% reception and a 90% reception? I mean, since hd broadcasts are digital shouldn't we get a picture or no picture at all? So even it you're getting 20% that's just as good as getting a 90% reception as long as the signal doesn't completely drop out?

Thanks!

It is not possible for your association to block you for putting a dish or antenna on your patio as long as it is on a pole or other similar device and not attached to the roof or stucco. You can push them to give you a better clarification.

Using an indoor Zenith pointing NW, I am able to get 70 percent reception. Mostly, the picture is comes through or it doesn't from my experience, the higher the percentage, the less chance of loss of picture. Try it even without the NW view to see what happens.

Rasheed

I just purchased DirecTv HD...I live in Los Angeles (Westwood - 90024)...

I am confused as to the necessity of purchasing an OTA for the local channels. Are they currently available through the satellite feed or will I need a separate antenna set up?

I have been trying to find the answer but have been unsuccessful.

Thanks!

I just purchased DirecTv HD...I live in Los Angeles (Westwood - 90024)...

I am confused as to the necessity of purchasing an OTA for the local channels. Are they currently available through the satellite feed or will I need a separate antenna set up?
If you are satisfied with 2-1, 4-1, 7-1 and 11-1 only, then satellite is almost as good as OTA. The signals are a bit more compressed on the sat than they are OTA.

On the other hand, if you want 4-2, 7-2, or 7-3, or any other station such as 5-1, 13-1 or 28-1, you need an antenna. You may find a silver sensor perfectly adequate. I recommend this for at least 28-1, which has some wonderful content.

Thanks, I should say that I am talking about HI-DEF channels.....my other problem is, I don't really know what you're talking about...that is how ignorant I am....ha.....

I just purchased DirecTv HD...I live in Los Angeles (Westwood - 90024)...

I am confused as to the necessity of purchasing an OTA for the local channels. Are they currently available through the satellite feed or will I need a separate antenna set up?

I have been trying to find the answer but have been unsuccessful.

Thanks!
If it's the HR-10 (& probably hr10-250) that you have, 'yes' you'll need an OTA antenna for local HD feeds via DirecTV...at least for now. Otherwise, you'll only receive satellite HD channels only (e.g. DiscoveryHD, ESPNHD, HBOHD, etc). In the 'near' future (depends on DirecTV's definition of "near" though), when mpeg4 rolls out, we're supposed to receive all HD feeds via satellite (someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this).

Whatever locals you get via the Sat dish currently, will only be SD. In the setup menus, you'll need the receiver to "find" any digital OTA channels in your area, which will then be incorporated into the 'guide' data along with any satellite local info. The locals will most likely show as "2-1, 4-1, 7-1 etc", whereas the Satellite channels will show as "2, 4, 7 etc". Then, when a show you know is broadcast in HD, you'll need to select one of the OTA stations. IMO, you can probably 'delete' any redundant stations in your guide, since the quality won't be too much different for plain ol' SD local programs between OTA and satellite.

gohd, this is incorrect. DirecTV has east and west coast HD feeds of the big 4 networks, and customers in OaO areas can get them. This includes us LA folks, and the west coast feed is the LA stations anyway.

They are in the 80's or 90's, IIRC.

OK thanks.

If you are satisfied with 2-1, 4-1, 7-1 and 11-1 only, then satellite is almost as good as OTA. The signals are a bit more compressed on the sat than they are OTA.

On the other hand, if you want 4-2, 7-2, or 7-3, or any other station such as 5-1, 13-1 or 28-1, you need an antenna. You may find a silver sensor perfectly adequate. I recommend this for at least 28-1, which has some wonderful content.

If you live in Westwood, you will probably find yourself shaded from Mt. Wilson which will most likely make a simple antenna solution, such as the silver seven, an inprobable solution - unless you are very lucky (read back several weeks ago with photo attached)

Lobo:

I'm the lucky guy that HDTVFanAtic is referring to. I live due east of the Mormon Temple one-half block. (About three blocks north of Santa Monica.) I appear to be just barely out of the shadow of the Hollywood Hills so my little amplified Radio Shack indoor antenna (couldn't find a Silver Sensor the day I was looking) is getting everything for me. However, if you'll check out that picture, you'll see that if you live farther north than I do, you may not be so fortunate.

Frustratingly enough, we do have an outdoor antenna on my building and it appears to be in reasonable condition (and wired to all the units.) However, it isn't properly pointed. I'd re-aim it myself but someone stole the ladders that belonged to the building. Sigh.... :)

gohd, this is incorrect. DirecTV has east and west coast HD feeds of the big 4 networks, and customers in OaO areas can get them. This includes us LA folks, and the west coast feed is the LA stations anyway.

They are in the 80's or 90's, IIRC.
BTW, what's OaO? Is that for folks w/ poor OTA reception? If so, don't they need to place a special request with DirecTV to receive local HD via the DirecTV sat?

I'm in LA county, and just had a DirecTivo HD installed today, and the installer said I needed an antenna for local HD feeds. Am I missing out on something?

Sorry, probably should be in the HDTV hardware forum, so this'll be my last post on this.

BTW, what's OaO? Is that for folks w/ poor OTA reception? If so, don't they need to place a special request with DirecTV to receive local HD via the DirecTV sat?

I'm in LA county, and just had a DirecTivo HD installed today, and the installer said I needed an antenna for local HD feeds. Am I missing out on something?

Sorry, probably should be in the HDTV hardware forum, so this'll be my last post on this.

Owned And Operated. The station is actually owned by the Network involved, not run by a local entity or franchisee.

Besides the 4 major networks, the following L. A. channels have some HD content and will need an antenna to receive the HD: KTLA - 5, KCAL - 9, KCET - 28, KOCE? - 50. Both 5 and 28 have some great HD.

Rick R

I just moved back to LA after 3 years in Chicago. I finally fired up my plasma and pointed my Silver Sensor towards Mt. Wilson. I live in Downey, 21 miles out and I locked in everything with no problems except KCET-28. I moved the SS around in various places and still got nothing. Is KCET unusually difficult to lock in? I don't see why it would but I am having no luck as of now. Any thoughts? Thanks.

Is KCET unusually difficult to lock in? I don't see why it would but I am having no luck as of now. Any thoughts? Thanks.
I've never had a problem with KCET (along same line as Downey to Mt Wilson, but several miles farther). Had toughest time w/ UPN (ch13), but perfect since changed to CM4228 from Radio Shack yagi. Probably overkill, but it works.

Did you check w/ antennaweb.org to get the exact direction to Mt Wilson? I used a cheap $2 compass to point the antenna correctly, and haven't had to adjust it since.

I'm not familiar with the SS, but are you using it indoors or outdoors now?

Using the Silver Sensor indoors, but I am going to put it up in the attic so I will try locking it in again once I have it up there. When I was testing, I was just setting it on a chair. I may not have a problem once it is in the attic. I will definitely invest in a compass, that is a good idea. Thanks!

Update: KCET magically appeared once I rescanned for channels. I am sure it will stick once I put it in the attic. Thanks for the help!

Is it my imagination or is KABC's news now in HD. I don't mean simply "Air HD" but also the main news. If you notice, you can see the edges of the screen beyond what is on the standard broadcast. Not all of it of course. Some of the at the scene reporters look standard (a bit washed out, upconverted), but the rest looks great.

Anybody know? Also what is up with the odd ratio. It seems every program is shown in something like 14:9. Apologies if this was the wrong place to post this.

Larry

KABC has always stretched the SD image (so does channel 5) for their digital broadcast on channel 7.1, so that it looks sort of like an HD broadcast. I think that it's a combination of a zoom and a stretch. It's not HD, but it usually looks very good.

...a combination of a zoom and a stretch. It's not HD, but it usually looks very good.

Stretching NEVER looks good. ABC annoys the heck out of me with it's stupid stretching. I actually have to go back to the SD channel to avoid it. On all other HD channels, I just take the SD channel out of the list completely because it looks better as an HD upconvert.

Maybe it is just me, but I notice no ill-effects from KABC's larger image size. It just doesn't seem distorted. In fact, the more I watch KABC, the more I hate the HUGE pillarboxes on most of the other digital channels. With KABC, the pillarboxes are much smaller, and almost go unnoticed. Folks, make sure you watch these channels in 1080 or 720, no matter what program is being aired.

Does anyone have any idea when our SoCal digital stations will switch to more HD-friendly news (other than Air7HD, which only sees action maybe twice a week)? It would seem that LA would have been one of the first to use this new(er) technology.

Maybe it is just me, but I notice no ill-effects from KABC's larger image size. It just doesn't seem distorted. In fact, the more I watch KABC, the more I hate the HUGE pillarboxes on most of the other digital channels. With KABC, the pillarboxes are much smaller, and almost go unnoticed. Folks, make sure you watch these channels in 1080 or 720, no matter what program is being aired.

Does anyone have any idea when our SoCal digital stations will switch to more HD-friendly news (other than Air7HD, which only sees action maybe twice a week)? It would seem that LA would have been one of the first to use this new(er) technology.

I'm surprised too, especially given the early promotion of KTLA to HD. The list of stations that have HD newscasts is small overall. Let me remember:
WRAL - Raleigh, NC (Why this small station in NC has been at the forefront, dunno)
KUSA - Denver, CO
KOMO - Seattle, WA
WJW - Cleveland, OH
WUSA - Washington, DC

But when you watch Eyewitness News, look at the edges of the graphics, and then compare that to how much you see on the SD channel. I think the news itself has gone HD or at least widescreen or quasi-HD. Reporters on the street look washed out, but on the set itself...

I do concur though, the SD upconverted broadcasts look stretched/cropped now that you mention it. All in all, not too bad.

What gets me is on DirecTV, the locals (nets) the SD channels look very washed out, while the digital channels even at 480p look really great and sharp in comparison. Is this because the SD channels are half the resolution (480i)?

Another thing, Lucy fans check out the digital broadcasts of "I Love Lucy" on KTTV. You'll see more of the picture as opposed to the DVDs out now due to lack of (what is it called? 3-2 pulldown or something like that, basically it's like anamorphic), and their station logo is not displayed so prominently as on the SD channel. Just a heads up. It's still chopped as all get out, but very interesting to look at.

Larry

ATTIC ANTENNA vs. BASIC INDOOR ANTENNA

Hmm, forgive me if this is not the right place to post this. Didn't see any better options.

I live in Venice, CA. About 20 miles to Mt. Wilson. Have just analog OTA currently, but will be upgrading to DTV soon. I use a decent amplified Radio Shack set-top antenna currently, and get mixed results. A few channels (7-9) come in great. Some (2, 5, 11, 13) so-so. Mostly snow & interference. No ghosting. 3 UHF PBS stations come in pretty good.

I'm in the second story of an apartment.

- Would an outdoor antenna placed in my attic give me better performance than my set-top setup? AntennaWeb reccommends a Medium Range Directional based on my location.
- Would a decent VHF/UHF outdoor antenna work for analog now and possibly digital (all UHF) in the future?
- Any reccommendations or better places to post this?

Thanks!

What gets me is on DirecTV, the locals (nets) the SD channels look very washed out, while the digital channels even at 480p look really great and sharp in comparison. Is this because the SD channels are half the resolution (480i)?

Larry

480i is not half the resolution of 480p. The resolution is the same as the frame rate is the same (30 fps), the difference is that scanning artifacts are not the same. The SD appearance is more likely to be because it is upconverted analog NTSC source material.

Lee

Stretching NEVER looks good. ABC annoys the heck out of me with it's stupid stretching. I actually have to go back to the SD channel to avoid it. On all other HD channels, I just take the SD channel out of the list completely because it looks better as an HD upconvert.
I am with you. I watch the KABC SD satellite channel instead of the OTA digital channel if it a SD show. I never watch KABC news because of their stretch. It is quite simple, for me I NEVER watch stretched TV - it looks ugly and the people look fat.

Rick R

480i is not half the resolution of 480p. The resolution is the same as the frame rate is the same (30 fps)
This is incorrect. 480p has a frame rate of 60 fps.

Watching Prison Break repeat on Fox

KTTV-DT, the show breaks up every few minutes, audio cuts out and then the video cuts out.

I was curious if anyone was having the same problem, or it's a problem on my end?

same problem over Adelphia cable in LA

Looks like it's a west coast problem

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6128803#post6128803

Someone in sacramento has the same problem (audio cutouts only though)

gohd, this is incorrect. DirecTV has east and west coast HD feeds of the big 4 networks, and customers in OaO areas can get them. This includes us LA folks, and the west coast feed is the LA stations anyway.

They are in the 80's or 90's, IIRC.
I'm an idiot. I finally figured out what you were talking about. As already stated by RickR, you'll only need antenna for the stations mentioned by RickR (KCal9, etc).

Heard that "A Concert for Hurricane Relief" for Katrina was going to be HD. Saw the HD graphic appear when it just started at 8. On KNBC-DT OTA right now and it's SD. What up? Someone want to call them or repost that one number for NBC?

ATTIC ANTENNA vs. BASIC INDOOR ANTENNA

Hmm, forgive me if this is not the right place to post this. Didn't see any better options.

I live in Venice, CA. About 20 miles to Mt. Wilson. Have just analog OTA currently, but will be upgrading to DTV soon. I use a decent amplified Radio Shack set-top antenna currently, and get mixed results. A few channels (7-9) come in great. Some (2, 5, 11, 13) so-so. Mostly snow & interference. No ghosting. 3 UHF PBS stations come in pretty good.

I'm in the second story of an apartment.

- Would an outdoor antenna placed in my attic give me better performance than my set-top setup? AntennaWeb reccommends a Medium Range Directional based on my location.
- Would a decent VHF/UHF outdoor antenna work for analog now and possibly digital (all UHF) in the future?
- Any reccommendations or better places to post this?

Thanks!

jethrodesign,

I would start with the Silver Sensor indoor antenna. Hook it up and point it towards Mount Wilson. I am in Downey, 21 miles out and I have it in my attic. I pull in all OTA channels with no problems. You can find the SS at Sears or at amazon.com. Good luck.

I apologize if this has been discussed before, but I like to know if Anaheim Hills / Yorba Linda area gets OTA HDTV? I tried and I couldn't receive any. I wonder if anyone else in the area have any luck with it?

regards,
Rudy

hi

For some strange reason, I am able to receive all my local digital stations in my city except for FOX. I live within 10 miles from the broadcasting towers for all the stations. So far, I've tried the Zenith Silver Sensor, Radioshack 15-1838 indoor amplified VHF/UHF antenna, and finally an outdoor Radioshack 15-2160 UHF antenna. The only time I am able to pick up FOX is with the Silver Sensor when I wedged it between my windows, pointing it 90 degrees away from Mt. Wilson. I can't figure out what's going on. I live in a one story house and almost all of the houses in my area are single story.

any help is appreciated,
tony

Anyone seeing sporadic artifacting/flashing on KCBS-DT's HD? Happening to me on the US Open right now and was happening on Letterman last night. Not really too annoying, but it's definitely not going away. Just want to make sure it's not on my side.

Anyone seeing sporadic artifacting/flashing on KCBS-DT's HD? Happening to me on the US Open right now and was happening on Letterman last night. Not really too annoying, but it's definitely not going away. Just want to make sure it's not on my side.

I'm seeing the same thing on KCBS-DT, but not on WCBS-DT (east coast feed) through E*. The same scenes on WCBS are displaying fine. I'm using my E* 942 to swap tuners and replaying scenes where I see artifacts.

Yes, I see it too, all through the US OPEN tennis broadcast. It is getting worse as time goes on.

Me too! Tennis is breaking up.

I can tell you that there was no problem with the CBS HDTV feed on East Coast locally.

However, KNBC-DT has had massive problems today D*. Don't know if its over the air that way or not. I am not talking network feed - for example the 5PM news.

Anyone seeing sporadic artifacting/flashing on KCBS-DT's HD? Happening to me on the US Open right now and was happening on Letterman last night. Not really too annoying, but it's definitely not going away. Just want to make sure it's not on my side.

Letterman had some glitches during Friday night's broadcast even though my signal strength was as strong as ever.

So there's definitely something wrong with KCBS-DT on the network's end. Artifacts persist even through the Broncos/Dolphins game right now, and I'd guess we'll see them in the Agassi/Federer match next.

So! It takes a major blackout in LA to get Air7HD up and flying, when WE CAN'T SEE IT!!! Well now I can, power came back! :eek:

KABC's new subchannel....I assume it'll be on 7.2.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6255797.html?display=Breaking+News&referral=supp

Hi there!

I have encountered a strange problem in my reception of local HD stations 7.1 (ABC) and 11.1 (Fox). The signal wiggles horizontally in the bottom third of my set's picture. This happened with another antennae and does not occur on other OTA HD stations that I receive, CBS (2.1) ABC (4.1) or PBS HD stations.

My antennae is a medium multidirectional style that is roof mounted without any obstructions between it and the transmitting towers on Mt. Wilson.

Has anyone else had this happen? Any suggestions on how to stop the wiggling? I am wondering if I should boost the signal with a amp/transformer but do not want to waste my money.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Rob

Hi there!

I have encountered a strange problem in my reception of local HD stations 7.1 (ABC) and 11.1 (Fox). The signal wiggles horizontally in the bottom third of my set's picture. This happened with another antennae and does not occur on other OTA HD stations that I receive, CBS (2.1) ABC (4.1) or PBS HD stations.

My antennae is a medium multidirectional style that is roof mounted without any obstructions between it and the transmitting towers on Mt. Wilson.

Has anyone else had this happen? Any suggestions on how to stop the wiggling? I am wondering if I should boost the signal with a amp/transformer but do not want to waste my money.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Rob


Have you thought its something else - especially as those are the 2 720p feeds?

Digital signasls are either there or not there. Unlike analog there is no wiggled pictures in marginal reception areas. However in marginal reception areas you can get dropouts.

As the previous poster suggested the two stations you have trouble with are the only two that transmit in 720p. As a result I suspect your receiver has trouble with 720p. It probably is a receiver problem.

Rick R

Did anyone experience an audio dropout during Leno tonight(WED) before the second guest? I was timeshifting using my program and when looking back at the file it messed up around the movie preview with Ed Harris- sound disappeared and file sort of got stuck for a bit. The second guest came on but I had no sound- sound came back though when I stopped timeshifting so not sure of the cause.

Also did anyone catch an HDTV joke the other night- I think Mon. Leno said something like when Beverly Hills people loot, they only take the HDTV's or HD Ready sets, not the old plasma stuff. I thought it was funny because it showed that people are still confused about HDTV.

While I'm at it- did anyone have breakups, tearing, etc. with Conan last night(TUE-WED) during Switchfoot? I was recording it with my Fusion2 when the dumb thing quit about 10-20 seconds in. I opened up the Fusion app again and recorded the rest fine, but didn't get the whole thing. :(

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

KNBC-DT Continues to disappear off D* late at night so I have no idea if its local of not - but no one else is disappearing like this.

So there's definitely something wrong with KCBS-DT on the network's end. Artifacts persist even through the Broncos/Dolphins game right now, and I'd guess we'll see them in the Agassi/Federer match next.
The problem seems to be on all their network HD broadcasts. I noticed the problem on both the OTA feed & on D*'s feed. I contacted KCBS Tech via their website, they responded via email within 3 hours. I sent them samples of the problem. Their last response was:

"Thanks you have been very helpful. We will get this fixed. I will let you know the outcome"

Is anybody else missing KNBC-DT? I can't get 4.1 or 4.2 OTA and I have always gotten such a nice, shiny signal. It's just black now, no signal at all.

I'm still getting it from the satellite dish, fortunately.

I've noticed an uptick in glitches on KNBC and KCBS. Perhaps they're still doing tower work at Mt. Wilson?

I'm getting some glitches in the premiere of Threshold on KCBS-HD

Is this just me or is anyone else experiencing this?

Thanks.

I was getting frequent glitches during the Threshold premiere. The second hour became more or less unwatchable, in fact. I turned it off. I'll finish watching it in SD on TiVo. Show looks like a possible winner, though.

In the first hour, there were some glitches when switching between commercials and programming that seemed to be network-, not reception-, related.

I'm getting some glitches in the premiere of Threshold on KCBS-HD

Is this just me or is anyone else experiencing this?

Thanks.I got an email from KCBS sent to me at 1:42 this morning saying they made an adjustment late last night. It wasn't completed until midway through Letterman last night. Hopefully, it is fixed for tonight's Tenn @ FL football game.

I got an email from KCBS sent to me at 1:42 this morning saying they made an adjustment late last night. It wasn't completed until midway through Letterman last night. Hopefully, it is fixed for tonight's Tenn @ FL football game.

I have seen no glitches through the game so far. Looks like whatever they did fixed the issues.

No more more IMAX movies on KCAL-DT? :( When did they stop,or are they relocated to another timeslot?Instead there were showing a CSI episode in SD at 6pm.The least KCAL could do is to show it in HD since the are capable or maybe there are no HD syndication masters.

IMAX Specials have been airing on KCBS most recently this past Saturday at 10pm.

No more more IMAX movies on KCAL-DT? :( When did they stop,or are they relocated to another timeslot?Instead there were showing a CSI episode in SD at 6pm.The least KCAL could do is to show it in HD since the are capable or maybe there are no HD syndication masters.
Last show I saw was just 2 weeks ago (about Australia), so AFAIK, it's still going on. This week's show was replaced by CSI (?) that was bumped by the Emmy's on CBS. I'm sure the CSIs are filmed in HD, they probably just didn't feel like broadcasting it in HD, since it was just a temporary swapout.

No more more IMAX movies on KCAL-DT? :( When did they stop,or are they relocated to another timeslot?Instead there were showing a CSI episode in SD at 6pm.The least KCAL could do is to show it in HD since the are capable or maybe there are no HD syndication masters.

I think the "Egypt" documentary at 6:00pm on 9/24 is an IMAX-HD. But your right, TitanTV has CSI at 6:00pm on Sundays now. What a bummer. I really enjoyed them and they were great quality.

A year ago, KABC-DT was running 7.2 with ABC News and Weather on .3.

Do they still run 3 channels on their signal?

A year ago, KABC-DT was running 7.2 with ABC News and Weather on .3.

Do they still run 3 channels on their signal?

Yes they do. NewsNow on .2 Doppler on .3

Joe

When doing a comparison between ota and Adelphia is the PQ for HD equally good?

Joe

When doing a comparison between ota and Adelphia is the PQ for HD equally good?

I don't notice any major differences. If I'm getting breakup on A I switch to OTA and usually it's happening from the source. I hate not being able to blame A.

Air7 HD 4:35 P.M. anyone else watching this Jet airplane with the front landing gear problem? Could be some potentially interesting screencaps!

Air7 HD 4:35 P.M. anyone else watching this Jet airplane with the front landing gear problem?

Yes, I've been watching it.

Kudos to Air7-HD and the Jet Blue pilot for two jobs well done! :D

Kudos to Air7-HD and the Jet Blue pilot for two jobs well done! :D

Indeed. Textbook finish.

Yes they do. NewsNow on .2 Doppler on .3


Thanks.

I am somewhat amazed they had the results they did over on the HDTV Programming Thread on PQ from Different Sources then.

I just wanted to confirm... UPN still is not broadcasting HD in LA, correct?

Correct.

Is there any word on when we can expect them to start broadcasting HD in LA? I recently moved from Chicago and I noticed there that UPN has excellent PQ. Kevin Hill arguably has the best PQ out of any show broadcasting in HD right now. Would be nice if we can look forward to it in the near future.

There was word a few months ago that Fox purchased receivers for the HD satellite feed for their 2 west-coast duopolies (Phoenix and LA). However, I haven't seen anything since then about a timeline for either city getting HD broadcasts up and running. You might want to send an email to the station and see if you can get word from anyone. I've contacted one of the engineers here in Phoenix about it, but I haven't gotten a response.

Newb here. :rolleyes:

Let me start by saying that I really appreciate all the help that you guys (and gals) give. It's refreshing to see NICE people on a forum this large. The auto forums I frequent seem more like a forum for insecure people to boost their ego by putting down others anonymously.

I recently bought a 37" Sceptre from Costco. It's got an ATSC tuner so I thought I'd try to get some OTA HD. I thought I remembered seeing an antenna cable (300ohm??? 2 wires far apart...not coax) near my coax line so I thought I'd trace it. Low and behold there is a medium size "fishbone" antenna in my attic!!!!!

I hooked it up to my TV (am I allowed to call it that here?) and got several channels but a couple are only at approx 40% on the set's built in meter and it won't pull them in. According to Antennaweb (I did surf here a while at least before I posted) there are coming from the same direction and location as some of the channels that I get w/o problems. There is a long run of 300ohm from the antenna to a closet downstairs (100ft?) and then 75ohm from the closet to the tv (50ft). Would a preamp help pull in these marginal stations? What are good brands if so?? Should I be looking more towards a different antenna? is it OK to have the long run of 300ohm?

Thanks!!!

BTW I'm in Lake Forest (92630) near the intersection of Lake Forest and Pittsford if that is any help.

Newb here. :rolleyes:

Let me start by saying that I really appreciate all the help that you guys (and gals) give. It's refreshing to see NICE people on a forum this large. The auto forums I frequent seem more like a forum for insecure people to boost their ego by putting down others anonymously.

I recently bought a 37" Sceptre from Costco. It's got an ATSC tuner so I thought I'd try to get some OTA HD. I thought I remembered seeing an antenna cable (300ohm??? 2 wires far apart...not coax) near my coax line so I thought I'd trace it. Low and behold there is a medium size "fishbone" antenna in my attic!!!!!

I hooked it up to my TV (am I allowed to call it that here?) and got several channels but a couple are only at approx 40% on the set's built in meter and it won't pull them in. According to Antennaweb (I did surf here a while at least before I posted) there are coming from the same direction and location as some of the channels that I get w/o problems. There is a long run of 300ohm from the antenna to a closet downstairs (100ft?) and then 75ohm from the closet to the tv (50ft). Would a preamp help pull in these marginal stations? What are good brands if so?? Should I be looking more towards a different antenna? is it OK to have the long run of 300ohm?

Thanks!!!

BTW I'm in Lake Forest (92630) near the intersection of Lake Forest and Pittsford if that is any help.

If you can get away with an indoor antenna, I think you'll find this Zenith/Phillips antenna (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00006FXR9/qid=1127517665/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-3543140-3390517?v=glance&s=electronics&n=507846) is very favorably reviewed. I have one and it's perfect. I'd stay away from Terk, simmilar design, awful performance.

There is a long run of 300ohm from the antenna to a closet downstairs (100ft?) and then 75ohm from the closet to the tv (50ft). Would a preamp help pull in these marginal stations? What are good brands if so?? Should I be looking more towards a different antenna? is it OK to have the long run of 300ohm?

Before trying anything else, i would replace the twinlead with good RG-6 (quad shielded is preferred).
Twinlead cable like that is generally a very poor choice for runs longer than a few feet, because it acts as an antenna and picks up a lot of interference. Shielded RG-6 coax has a lot more resistance to external interference, and will work better for a long run like that. A preamp near the antenna may be useful for getting over the distance, but better cable will help a lot more. Trying a good indoor antenna like a Silver Sensor is never a bad idea, because they can be obtained locally and returned if they don't work well enough.

Which stations are marginal? Sometimes it's them not us.

Is your "fishbone" a combination VHF/UHF antenna, or is it VHF-only?
If it doesn't have the UHF front section, you'll need to add something like the CM-4221.
See the fol website for a description of a typical VHF fishbone with UHF Yagi front end:
http://www.starkelectronic.com/quantum.htm#adv

If you don't already have a UHF antenna section, you might want to start
with a moderate gain UHF antenna, like the inexpensive Channel Master CM-4221
4-Bay Bowtie and simply connect it in place of the VHF "fishbone".
Note that none of the DTV stations are on VHF in LA.....yet....

I tried to find an inexpensive VHF/UHF Antenna Coupler that would combine
together the VHF "fishbone" signals with those from a new UHF antenna.
You would presumably need one with 300-ohm inputs and outputs,
but apparently no one stocks them anymore (maybe EBay?).
I suppose you could use three Baluns and the Channel Master 0549 VHF/UHF Antenna Coupler.

You should avoid the general purpose (VHF/UHF on Both ports) antenna couplers,
since they have 4 dB insertion loss, compared to only 0.5 dB for a coupler that
accepts only VHF on one port and UHF on the other.

=====================================================
If you want to change antennas to a higher performance model, the Channel Master CM-4228,
is very highly rated and has a moderate amount of gain for VHF CH7-13 and
"sufficient" gain on CH2-6 in your location. It also would avoid the need for a VHF/UHF Antenna Coupler
and might be enough additional gain so that you don't have to add a Preamp.

The CM-4228 would also make it more difficult to receive KVCR (PBS) from San Bernardino,
unless you used either a rotator or a dual UHF antenna arrangement.

====================================================
A long run of 300-ohm twin-lead will lose quite a bit of signal being so close to interior walls.
A Preamp overcomes the loss in the downlead while providing a much more sensitive RF front-end.

Presuming you already have a UHF capable "fishbone", you are far enough away
from broadcast towers to add a Preamp without overload problems.
However, Preamps have 75-ohm coax output, meaning you would need to replace the 300-ohm twin-lead.
If it's more than say 10 years old, you should replace it with double-shielded RG-6 anyway.

I wouldn't recommend using a 75/300-ohm Balun on the OUTPUT of a Preamp
in order to connect it to your existing 300-ohm twinlead, since signals can leak across from
the unshielded output wires to the input, causing signal oscillations that can disrupt nearby
Military and Ham radio operators even if you don't think that your reception is affected.
[Which is why manufacturers don't offer 300-ohm output Preamps anymore.]

The Channel Master CM-7777 (VHF/UHF) or CM-7775 (UHF only) are highly recommended,
as are the Winegard AP-4700 (VHF no-gain, UHF 19 dB Gain) and AP-8700/8703/8733 series.
In order to plan for the future, you should buy a VHF/UHF capable Preamp.

You guys are GREAT. Thanks for the quick feedback!!

Which local store carries the zenith or silver sensor? Radio Shack, Target, Walmart, CompUSA, Microcenter, BestBuy and Fry's are all close to me.

I'll check out the shielded RG-6. Hopefully I can use the twinlead for pulling the new line but we'll see. I don't know where it runs yet...just where it starts and ends. Anyone know a good source for this? Either a "real" or online store works for me.

I'll check out the antenna and see if I can tell what kind it is. Thanks for the link!! Maybe I'll upgrade the antenna and cable and be ready to go.

Thanks again for all the help!!! :)

p.s. If I'm not supposed to ask about stores to buy things please let me know

If you can get away with an indoor antenna, I think you'll find this Zenith/Phillips antenna (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00006FXR9/qid=1127517665/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-3543140-3390517?v=glance&s=electronics&n=507846) is very favorably reviewed. I have one and it's perfect. I'd stay away from Terk, simmilar design, awful performance.

45 miles is a bit far for an indoor Silver Sensor (which only has 3 dBd gain).

Better to get the antenna as high as possible (maybe 6-10 dB height gain).
And the CM-4221 "real" UHF antenna (with 8-13 dBd gain) costs no more than the Silver Sensor at www.amazon.com.
And the CM-4228 VHF/UHF antenna (with 12-16 dBd gain) costs about as much as a Preamp.

Where to purchase this good stuff?
On-line, unless you are lucky enough to find locally:
http://www.solidsignal.com/
www.starkelectronic.com
http://www.warrenelectronics.com/

I have emailed KCOP 13 (UPN LA DMA currently owned by News Corp)., but no reply. I am sure the UPN corporate team in Los Angeles is also disappointed to not have a potential breakthrough (Everybody Hates Chris) not in HD.

Contractually, the News Corp. agreement with UPN probably does not require broadcast of the HD material.

I have also emailed Fox Television Stations group to see if I can get a response.

Rasheed

Kevin Hill arguably has the best PQ out of any show broadcasting in HD right now. Would be nice if we can look forward to it in the near future.

You are going to need much more than UPN to broadcast in HD to see it in the future.

Was KCBS having a problem during Letterman (w/Teri Hatcher) on Thursday night or was it just me?

Everything was fine during the first segment. After the first commercial break, my AVR kept switching between 5.1 and 2 channel modes. The problem would go away during the commercial breaks, but came back during the program for the remainder of the show.

I would guess that one reason UPN is not in HD on KCOP-DT is because of how Fox set up their HD infrastructure. Fox sends its HD feed as an ATSC ready stream that's switched to air by their splicer system. This means the station isn't required to have much at all for HD facilities. No HD control room, routing or switching is needed.

UPN is distributed the same way CBS is: 45 Mb with Dolby E audio. The HD IRD outputs baseband 1.5 Gb video with multichannel audio. An HD switching system is required to switch between HD and upconverted SD sources. KCOP-DT's AC3 encoder would require the metadata switching for 3/2L and 2/0 for broadcasting 5.1 (unless they just leave it in 5.1). All of this can be a much bigger investment than just the receivers. It's made even worse by the fact that Fox uses 720p and UPN is 1080i. I'll bet any money spent for HD at KTTV/KCOP will be for use in 720p (although most equipment now works in either standard).

Fox is probably reluctant to make such an investment to broadcast a network that they don't own in a format that they don't use, especially when it would cost more and be more complicated than broadcasting the one they do own.

HDTV in San Fernando Valley

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When I purchased my HDTV with built in tuner in April, I was surprised to see how many local channels are broadcasting digital, and how few take advantage of their digital spectrum to broadcast true HDTV. I am almost as disappointed with this as I am with Adelphia's long, long promised upgrade in my area. Still can't get HDTV on cable in Van Nuys/Sherman Oaks, though Adelphia sure sends out a lot of literature advertising it. I might say that I am also disappointed with KCET's (PBS) lack of HDTV programming, even though PBS was a pioneer in the field.

I have moved on to Directv. At least I get a good picture on standard digital. Still use standard Directivo box. I am waiting for Direct's new HDTV receiver/recorder box. I hear they will be rented, rather than purchased. Here again, Direct is slow to develope, but not nearly as slow as Adelphia.

It seems the only people who are up to date are the manufacturers/sellers of HDTVs.

__________________
dslguy2
Report Post

I think the "Egypt" documentary at 6:00pm on 9/24 is an IMAX-HD. But your right, TitanTV has CSI at 6:00pm on Sundays now. What a bummer. I really enjoyed them and they were great quality.


I found them at 3:00 PM Sunday on KCAL in the guide.

There is a long run of 300ohm from the antenna to a closet downstairs (100ft?) and then 75ohm from the closet to the tv (50ft). Would a preamp help pull in these marginal stations? What are good brands if so?? Should I be looking more towards a different antenna? is it OK to have the long run of 300ohm?
Replacing the 300 ohm with RG6 by itself will NOT improve your signal strrength. The 300 ohm is very low loss however it is very subject to interfearance so it is not used too much. (I once replaced a so so signal using 300 ohm with RG59 and lost almost all the signals. I had pulled the coax through using the 300 ohm. Had to reverse the process.)

RG6 quad shield is pretty good however so with a preamp and the RG6 quad shield you will probably improve the signal. Home Depot has RG6 quad shield and connectors fairly cheap.

Rick R

Thanks for all the input and the links!!!! I just got back from a weekend out so I haven't made any progress on the OTA evaluation and improvements. I'll check out the antenna first. Hopefully I'll be able to figure out what it is and which way it's pointing (I haven't owned a compass since I was in Boy Scouts). I'll hopefully be able to check the routing to see if I even want to attempt to replace the 300ohm with RG6. I'm glad to see that the antenna gear isn't super expensive...thanks for the links. Its getting so you can't get anything for a home theatre w/o dropping at least 2 bills it seems. :eek:

In response to another post the only channels the tuner is pulling in on the HD tuner are: 4.1, 4.2, 5.1, 5.2, 30.1, 30.2, 30.3, 30.4, 34.1, 34.2, 46.1, 56.1, 56.2, 57.1, 57.2, 57.3

I'd REALLY like to get ABC if I can. I guess I should clarify as well.....the above mentioned are all that the auto tuner pulled in. I haven't seen picture on all of the channels but I don't know if it's just because nothing was being broadcast when I checked or the signal was bad. I know I can't (couldn't at the time at least) get fox, abc, pbs or upn. I tried to enter them manually and the best I got on the resulting signal meter was 44%.

One last thing. Is there some sort of inexpensive meter I can get that would let me know how much signal loss or signal degradation I'm getting along the run w/o schlepping my TV into the attic? (check signal strength right after the antenna and then at the end of the run)

Thanks again oh HD gurus :)

I'm a subchannel newbie, so excuse my ignorance:
While messing around with my new Pio 4350, I started randomly entering subchannels on the media box. Surprisingly, I got a lot of great digital channels I'm don't pay for. But reception seems random. One day a subchannel will get HBO. The next day, the same subchannel will be a black screen.
Last night, I tested for signal strength. Every subchannel, whether it received a picture or not, got about 35 or 42.
On the subchannels that got no programming, the TV would fart for a second (trying to pull in a picture), then go black. Their signal strength also tested a 35 or 42.
I live in an 18-unit apartment complex in Santa Monica and I have a standard, basic, boring Adelphia cable that plugs into the back of my Pio 4350 media box. I have no cablecard, no DISH, just Adelphia basic cable.
Why can't I pull in more channels?
Should I move the receiver to a higher, more open location?
Is the quality of the cable signal coming into my 18-unit apartment building bad?
Should I put terminators on the ends of any unused cable outlets in my apartment?
Thanks for any help you can provide.

Thanks for all the input and the links!!!! I just got back from a weekend out so I haven't made any progress on the OTA evaluation and improvements. I'll check out the antenna first. Hopefully I'll be able to figure out what it is and which way it's pointing (I haven't owned a compass since I was in Boy Scouts). I'll hopefully be able to check the routing to see if I even want to attempt to replace the 300ohm with RG6. I'm glad to see that the antenna gear isn't super expensive...thanks for the links. Its getting so you can't get anything for a home theatre w/o dropping at least 2 bills it seems. :eek:

In response to another post the only channels the tuner is pulling in on the HD tuner are: 4.1, 4.2, 5.1, 5.2, 30.1, 30.2, 30.3, 30.4, 34.1, 34.2, 46.1, 56.1, 56.2, 57.1, 57.2, 57.3

I'd REALLY like to get ABC if I can. I guess I should clarify as well.....the above mentioned are all that the auto tuner pulled in. I haven't seen picture on all of the channels but I don't know if it's just because nothing was being broadcast when I checked or the signal was bad. I know I can't (couldn't at the time at least) get fox, abc, pbs or upn. I tried to enter them manually and the best I got on the resulting signal meter was 44%.

One last thing. Is there some sort of inexpensive meter I can get that would let me know how much signal loss or signal degradation I'm getting along the run w/o schlepping my TV into the attic? (check signal strength right after the antenna and then at the end of the run)

Thanks again oh HD gurus :)

So it's several specific channels, all from Mt. Wilson.
Moving the antenna location (up/down, sideways) could change which channels are received...and creat new problems...

Before you commit to replacing the 300-ohm twinlead, you might want to
run a temporary replacement cable directly through the house.
If you have bad twinlead, a new run of RG-6 (or even cheaper RG-58 from R-S)
should show an improvement. You could even try out a Preamp.

===================================================
Did you determine whether your "fishbone" even had a UHF section???

Fire in HD- I was wondering when ABC would show more HD shots at night. Not too interesting since it's just fire, but it's so much better than the static-ky, pixel-ly, orange blobbish stuff on other stations. The shots seem quite clear, especially for night, not too much noise- I guess because the fire acts as a good light source.

So it's several specific channels, all from Mt. Wilson.
Moving the antenna location (up/down, sideways) could change which channels are received...and creat new problems...

Before you commit to replacing the 300-ohm twinlead, you might want to
run a temporary replacement cable directly through the house.
If you have bad twinlead, a new run of RG-6 (or even cheaper RG-58 from R-S)
should show an improvement. You could even try out a Preamp.

===================================================
Did you determine whether your "fishbone" even had a UHF section???


I let my buddy borrow my ladder but got up on a stepstool and peeked into the attic. This thing is HUGE for this little space. Searching around on the internet it looks like it is probably the 80" boom length 32 element outdoor antenna from radio shack (sorry not enough posts yet to be able to post URLs). I don't know how he got it up there. If size counts for anything it'll be picking up signals as good as SETI. The main boom long elements are sticking out all over the place to get around the rafters. I don't know that it makes any difference but thought I'd put it out there. I'll get the ladder back and try to get up there and push things around to see if I can pull in more stations before I do any cable trials. Anyone have any input on the usefulness of this antenna?

Any instrument that I could use (buy for cheap or rent) to see if new cable or a preamp would help?

Was checking out the Air7 HD coverage of the fires this morning. This is the first time I have gotten a chance to see the Air7 HD. Very impressed, I hope the fires can be controlled before any major damage is done to homes and property. The coverage really sucks you in.

When I watch the LA ABC HD station and the content is in SD, the left and right panels on my 16:9 screen TV are narrower than the other LA HD stations' (FOX, CBS, NBC) panels when displaying SD content.

What is the reason for that?

Its more like a zoom- you are missing the top & bottom (more bottom) of picture on the upconverted material. I wish they didn't do that.

Anyone know where to buy CM4228 8-Bay antenna in LA or Riverside?

Anyone know where to buy CM4228 8-Bay antenna in LA or Riverside?
Bought mine a Frys in Anaheim (?; off 91 fwy near 57). Probably avail at other Frys too. About $50. Probably one of the most valuable (and cheap!) additions to my HD equipment.

Last night on WB channel 5 Smallville it was not in HD until 40 minutes into the show. Before it was HD it was widescreen but it had a 1/2 inch black border. Really strange. It distracted from my enjoyment of this great episode.

Rick R

Hey everyone.

I started reading the begginning of this thread and realized how long it was! :eek:

Hope someone can direct me to the relevant posts, but I'm using Cox HD, but I also want to get an HDTV tuner card for my computer primarily so I can record more programs at once. I don't want to get another Cox Box so I was thinking of setting up an antenna. I am high in the foothills (Foothill Ranch) near Whiting Ranch and wondering what kind of antenna I need. Would it go inside? Would I be better to mount in on the roof? I could do that and run a line down the side of the house and into the room where the computer is.

Second question is does the HDTV tuner card come with software or something that will put an HD signal out to my Plasma because it will be recorded of course to hard drive, then I'll play it from the hard drive.

bump

Hope someone can direct me to the relevant posts, but I'm using Cox HD, but I also want to get an HDTV tuner card for my computer primarily so I can record more programs at once. I don't want to get another Cox Box so I was thinking of setting up an antenna. I am high in the foothills (Foothill Ranch) near Whiting Ranch and wondering what kind of antenna I need. Would it go inside? Would I be better to mount in on the roof? I could do that and run a line down the side of the house and into the room where the computer is.

Second question is does the HDTV tuner card come with software or something that will put an HD signal out to my Plasma because it will be recorded of course to hard drive, then I'll play it from the hard drive.

I'd start with antennaweb.org to check what sort of antenna you might need from your location? For advice on HDTV recording to your pc, I'd visit the HDTV recording and the Home Theater PC forums elsewhere on AVS. Good luck!

anybody having problems watching joey tonight? the channels comes and goes and my signal strength on my tv for this channel is on full power.

If Joey is on NBC, I've been seeing that for a couple days.

i got my hd tv for 2 weeks. i am watching hd program ota. i am connected to an attic antenna which been here for over 25 years. not sure what brand or type. only thing i know is that the antenna is going to 3 seperate rooms. i am getting all the channels except for kcal. kcal comes in once in a million years. abc reception is not so great but acceptable and nbc is acting up today. my question is if i buy a channel master 4228 antenna and connect it directly to my hd tv will these reception problems be solved. should i add a preamp? thanks in advance.

i got my hd tv for 2 weeks. i am watching hd program ota. i am connected to an attic antenna which been here for over 25 years. not sure what brand or type. only thing i know is that the antenna is going to 3 seperate rooms. i am getting all the channels except for kcal. kcal comes in once in a million years. abc reception is not so great but acceptable and nbc is acting up today. my question is if i buy a channel master 4228 antenna and connect it directly to my hd tv will these reception problems be solved. should i add a preamp? thanks in advance.

How far are you from Mt. Wilson?
This probably is needed to help you.

anybody having problems watching joey tonight? the channels comes and goes and my signal strength on my tv for this channel is on full power.Real digital breakup problems on 11PM news tonight. I'm guessing it's the same problem as you've observed on Joey.

How far are you from Mt. Wilson?
This probably is needed to help you.

under 26 miles

The Tonight Show has been bad for a few days, especially last night. Or, my HD TiVo's new disk dive is bad... Anyone else with bad signal breakup issues on the Tonight Show?

KNBC is clearly having transmitter problems. The glitches on Joey also occurred on their analog signal and WeatherPlus was off the air last night.

The KNBC News was unwatchable last night, Thursday. On Wednesday it was annoying on the News and Jay Leno. It seemed to have cleared up by Jay Leno last night however. I checked this morning, Friday, and it was fine. It better be fixed for the USC/Notre Dame game Saturday.

Rick R

Check the HD Programming Thread.

NBC's HD Distrubtion system cannot handle 4 days of rain and is causing the drop outs.

As for local news having drop outs, god only knows and as for the NABET Engineers at NBC-
No Body Cares

Its more like a zoom- you are missing the top & bottom (more bottom) of picture on the upconverted material. I wish they didn't do that.

Just came back from vacation. Are you saying that you are seeing the same thing on your 16:9 TV? Narrower left and right panels than other HD stations when displaying SD?

Did anyone have pixelation problems during the 1st half of the last ER episode? I'm trying to determine if it's an OTA or equipment problem (HD DirecTivo). I wasn't watching live, but thru Tivo.

Did anyone have pixelation problems during the 1st half of the last ER episode? I'm trying to determine if it's an OTA or equipment problem (HD DirecTivo). I wasn't watching live, but thru Tivo.

NBC HD Feed from NYC was hosed - and has been for days - read other threads on it in HD Programming.

Having lots of signal problems today with several of my OTA channels and wondered if it was weather related. I normally get 70-90 on my signal meter for all the LA HD channels (using HD Tivo) but this afternoon (around 5pm) I'm getting absolutely no signal from 7-1 (53) and 13-1 (66). Channels 2-1 (60) and 9-1 (43) are very low. But 4-1 (36) and 5-1 (31) are perfect. I'm surprised I'm getting zero signal from 7 and 13 since both normally come in pretty high. There have been thunderstorms and heavy rain in the area so I thought that might be why. I live in Ventura which is about 60 miles from Mt. Wilson, but I have a huge antenna on the roof (forget the exact model) and up until now it's performed quite well. Since I can get 4 and 5 perfect I would have thought I could get the others too.

Anyone else having problems getting a signal from Mt. Wilson?

I have a Pio 4350 and I use the Media Box's ability to receive subchannels to get HD programs and digital programs. Right now, I get NOTHING. My Adelphia, standard cable service was completely down earlier today. Now, my cable is back up, but I can't tune to any channel that includes a subchannel (in other words, I can watch Comedy Central on Adelphia channel 73, but I can't watch any HD channels that require subchannels).

I searched this thread and there was no mention of Brea other than La Brea as a street address for a TV station. Hopefully there is someone out there.

We are moving to Brea in the next few weeks in North Orange County. We will be in the northern most part of Brea and our home backs up to a the start of a hill. I checked antennaweb and the colors are bad bad bad. Purple and blue and not showing any digital channels are possible although they say I may get them.

I drove the neighborhood and saw some homes a few blocks away with antennas so I hope not all is lost.

Does anyone live in the North Brea area that is able to get digital OTA reception. I have installed a radioshack 80" rooftop antenna at my current home to get digital so can do an installation if necessary. Just curious if someone in the area has a success story. We would sure hate to lose OTA digital. We have a sweet HTPC for recording OTA HDTV.

Bryan

I lived in Diamond Bar in the late 80's. Much of Diamond bar including where I lived is on the opposite side of a huge hill from the transmitters, just like Brea. Indoor antennas got ghosts big time (this results in dreaded multi path for digital signals). However I got a cheap highly directional antenna from Radio Shack and mounted it on my chimney and got great reception.

You should probably get a good directional antenna in Brea and you should get the channels fine.

Rick R

I waited a couple days before I posted this fearing it might be a mistake and simply someone forgot to flip a switch or something. Thankfully that doesn't seem to be the case. If anyone from KTLA visits this forum I would just like to thank you. The existing WB logo comes way to far into the the middle of the screen but I am still VERY happy they decided to get rid of the second logo.


On a semi related topic.... Is there a law or rule that indicates how far into the middle of the screen a logo can come? I thought I recalled hearing something like this in the past. The current WB logo fits into the 4:3 area even during HD programs.

Threads merged.

Is there a law or rule that indicates how far into the middle of the screen a logo can come? I thought I recalled hearing something like this in the past. The current WB logo fits into the 4:3 area even during HD programs.

Are you serious? They can put a logo covering their entire screen for 60 minutes each hour if that's what they so desire.

Are you serious? They can put a logo covering their entire screen for 60 minutes each hour if that's what they so desire.

Actually this is not true. They can usually logo shows, but when it comes to commercials the logo goes away. I used to work in interactive television and we used to have interactive ads that aired nationally. We had to be very careful about what video content could be covered by our overlays. The networks can get sued by the advertisers if they cover up the wrong things. Interactive content that aired during shows had restrictions as to where it could be on the screen as well. All kinds of stipulations you would not believe.

I live in Los Angeles County, California. I've been watching HDTV every day since my Sony KDS-R60XBR1 arrived Saturday, 10/22/05. I have a huge Winegard VHF/UHF antenna on a rotator and a Winegard distribution amplifier. When I ran the Auto Program, 33 VHF/UHF and 44 digital stations were found. I'm 27.6 miles from Mt. Wilson, the transmission location for most stations. I hid many of the stations because I'm not interested in them. So far, I have not had any transmission problems and HDTV looks great!

I was considering replacing my antenna because I bought it back in 1978 and it's getting old. Although I am several miles from the ocean, I still get some salt corrosion on the aluminum antenna elements. I also noticed that I had noisy reception on channel 2 VHF.

Then something strange happened. :eek: I put an antenna switch in my system so that I could switch between my HDTV and my DVD recorder. I was worried that daisy chaining the signal from my DVD recorder to my HDTV would lower the signal strength too much. With the switch in the DVD recorder position, I still received all of my HDTV channels! The VHF channel reception was really bad in this position. If I disconnected the coaxial cable from the back of the set, the reception stopped.

Which of the following could be possible causes?

I have a strong UHF signal strength because I am 27.6 miles from the transmitters.
My Sony HDTV has a fantastic ATSC tuner
There is some sort of 'sneak path' coupling of the UHF signal inside the switch.


I have a BSEE degree, although my job doesn't involve RF communications. The best explanation seems to be a 'sneak path' and a good tuner.

All,

Thank you for providing a wealth of information for people interested in OTA ATSC in LA.

I am preparing to do my first installation.

I live in Simi Valley (93065) about 41 miles from Mount Wilson. antennaweb lists my location as being able to receive only one digital station (KBEH-DT), however I am certain that I am able to receive most of the stations from Mount Wilson with the appropriate equipment since a neighbor with a CM3020 on a 10'mast is able to receive ABC, NBC, WB and PBS without a preamp (he does not get CBS, FOX or UPN).

I would like to receive all of the stations broadcasting ATSC from Mount Wilson. I am not interested in receiving analog NTSC broadcasts.

In order to help determine which antenna to get - UHF only or VHF/UHF - I would appreciate info on the following (sorry if it is available elsewhere and I've missed it):
1) Is anyone able to confirm whether (CBS, NBC, WB, ABC, FOX, UPN, PBS) all broadcast in UHF from Mount Wilson - do the broadcasters make this information available officially somewhere?
2) Will any of the stations broadcasting in UHF to move to VHF in the future?

If all stations broadcast in UHF, I was planning to get the CM4228 unless anyone has suggestions for alternatives which may provide better performance for my location?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Joe McC

This was discussed here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5404233&highlight=revert#post5404233

For a list of the stations that antennaweb missed, with range and bearings, go to:
www.2150.com/broadcast

I live in Los Angeles County, California. I've been watching HDTV every day since my Sony KDS-R60XBR1 arrived Saturday, 10/22/05. I have a huge Winegard VHF/UHF antenna on a rotator and a Winegard distribution amplifier. When I ran the Auto Program, 33 VHF/UHF and 44 digital stations were found. I'm 27.6 miles from Mt. Wilson, the transmission location for most stations. I hid many of the stations because I'm not interested in them. So far, I have not had any transmission problems and HDTV looks great!

I was considering replacing my antenna because I bought it back in 1978 and it's getting old. Although I am several miles from the ocean, I still get some salt corrosion on the aluminum antenna elements. I also noticed that I had noisy reception on channel 2 VHF.

Then something strange happened. :eek: I put an antenna switch in my system so that I could switch between my HDTV and my DVD recorder. I was worried that daisy chaining the signal from my DVD recorder to my HDTV would lower the signal strength too much. With the switch in the DVD recorder position, I still received all of my HDTV channels! The VHF channel reception was really bad in this position. If I disconnected the coaxial cable from the back of the set, the reception stopped.

Which of the following could be possible causes?

I have a strong UHF signal strength because I am 27.6 miles from the transmitters.
My Sony HDTV has a fantastic ATSC tuner
There is some sort of 'sneak path' coupling of the UHF signal inside the switch.


I have a BSEE degree, although my job doesn't involve RF communications. The best explanation seems to be a 'sneak path' and a good tuner.


I'm surprised that you don't have OVERLOAD problems being that close to the broadcast towers plus a Distro Amp.

RF leakage will occur in ANY switch, although some switches are designed to minimize the effect.
If you had a really good switch with 60 dB of isolation, the DTV signals could still be well above the sensitivity level or your tuner.

I would recommend using a standard RF Splitter instead of the switch....and save getting up to flip the switch at the same time.
It will drop the level by about 4 db, which may actually IMPROVE your reception by reducing intermod products,
allowing the tuner to operate more towards it's linear region.

Tons of breakups on NBC tonight (oct 24, 2005).

I am trying to watch tonights episode of Surface but there have been tons of breakups. The signal is good so it must be on there end. Every now and then my screen goes totally black. Damn. Looks like NBC has stopped having Surface re-air on saturdays. I was hoping to catch this as a rerun. As is, it is almost totally unwatchable tonight. Thankfully I can catch Las Vegas on TNTHD if the problems continue tonight.

All,

Thank you for providing a wealth of information for people interested in OTA ATSC in LA.

I am preparing to do my first installation.

I live in Simi Valley (93065) about 41 miles from Mount Wilson. antennaweb lists my location as being able to receive only one digital station (KBEH-DT), however I am certain that I am able to receive most of the stations from Mount Wilson with the appropriate equipment since a neighbor with a CM3020 on a 10'mast is able to receive ABC, NBC, WB and PBS without a preamp (he does not get CBS, FOX or UPN).

I would like to receive all of the stations broadcasting ATSC from Mount Wilson. I am not interested in receiving analog NTSC broadcasts.

In order to help determine which antenna to get - UHF only or VHF/UHF - I would appreciate info on the following (sorry if it is available elsewhere and I've missed it):
1) Is anyone able to confirm whether (CBS, NBC, WB, ABC, FOX, UPN, PBS) all broadcast in UHF from Mount Wilson - do the broadcasters make this information available officially somewhere?
2) Will any of the stations broadcasting in UHF to move to VHF in the future?

If all stations broadcast in UHF, I was planning to get the CM4228 unless anyone has suggestions for alternatives which may provide better performance for my location?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Joe McC
Hi Joe,

I have been receiving OTA HD in Simi Valley for five years. I am in the east end in the shadow of 2700' Rocky Peak and had to work hard to get reception. In the west end you should be out of the shadow of the peak and will have an easier time getting OTA. All digital channels are currently UHF. However both KABC and KTTV have indicated they will keep their VHF channels for digital when analog is shut off, currently suggested as 4/7/09 by congress. I use a Winegard 8200 UHF/VHF antenna and a Winegard 8275 UHF/VHF preamp.

Good Luck,

Rick R

Las Vegas is running in SD again. I called got voice mail. Ugh. :mad:

hello......i'm in Chino 91710 and i'm having a hard time getting OTA digital channels.

is it safe to assume that i would first need to get the channel digitally in order to receive HD? for instance, "king of queens" was broadcasted in HD tonight.........but since i do not get KCBS digitally 2-01, i'm assuming i'm out of luck getting it in HD!

as of now, i get ch 4, 5 and 9 out of the major ch's........obviously, i would like to get all the major ch's digitally.

anyone in the 91710 area have any feedback on this?

thanks in advance!

Actually this is not true. They can usually logo shows, but when it comes to commercials the logo goes away.

Actually it is true. Read what I said.

They can put up a logo full screen 60 minutes an hour.

They do not have to air commercials.

They do not have to air programming.

They don't have to air anything.

They could just put up a full screen logo 60 minutes each hour as long as they did a station ID each hour.

They wouldn't have any audience, but they could legally do it.

Thus, there is no law regarding logo placement or size.

Tons of breakups on NBC tonight (oct 24, 2005).

I am trying to watch tonights episode of Surface but there have been tons of breakups. The signal is good so it must be on there end. Every now and then my screen goes totally black. Damn. Looks like NBC has stopped having Surface re-air on saturdays. I was hoping to catch this as a rerun. As is, it is almost totally unwatchable tonight. Thankfully I can catch Las Vegas on TNTHD if the problems continue tonight.

Las Vegas is running in SD again. I called got voice mail. Ugh. :mad:



Same on East Coast. Network Distribution problems again.

NBC is pathetic.


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6413255&&#post6413255

Tons of breakups on NBC tonight (oct 24, 2005).

I am trying to watch tonights episode of Surface but there have been tons of breakups. The signal is good so it must be on there end. Every now and then my screen goes totally black. Damn. Looks like NBC has stopped having Surface re-air on saturdays. I was hoping to catch this as a rerun. As is, it is almost totally unwatchable tonight. Thankfully I can catch Las Vegas on TNTHD if the problems continue tonight.


If you recorded it, stick with it. About 15 minutes in, they turned off the HD and showed it SD in letterbox. No more breakups. At least you can stick with the story then. They turned HD back on about 20 minutes into Las Vegas. By they way, I'm with Comcast, not OTA, and it happened to me too.

-Beefshank

If you recorded it, stick with it. About 15 minutes in, they turned off the HD and showed it SD in letterbox. No more breakups. At least you can stick with the story then. They turned HD back on about 20 minutes into Las Vegas. By they way, I'm with Comcast, not OTA, and it happened to me too.

-Beefshank

I'm on Adelphia and the Moxi started recording and switched to the show. :confused: I noticed it was in SD. I then switched to my antenna and saw the same. I know then it's an NBC problem. Garbage in garbage out. I noticed later that it went HD. I'm sure thanks to AVS I'm not the only one who called. They just need to keep that monkey wrench handy to WHACK the Tubo-Encabulator and fix the problem! :D

Thanks for the information holl_ands and Rick_R, very much appreciated.

Reading the posts linked to by holl_ands and the website referenced therein, I see that the "TENTATIVE DIGITAL CHANNEL DESIGNATIONS FOR STATIONS PARTICIPATING IN THE FIRST ROUND OF DTV CHANNEL ELECTIONS AND SECOND ROUND ELECTION FILING DEADLINE" is as follows:


listed as:
Call Sign [current DTV channel] [current NTSC channel] [tentative channel designation]

KABC-TV [53] [07] [07]
KCAL-TV [43] [09] [09]
KTTV___ [65] [11] [11]
KCOP-TV [66] [13] [13]
KCET___ [59] [28] [28]
KTLA-TV [31] [05] [31]
KMEX-TV [35] [34] [34]
KNBC___ [36] [04] [36]
KLCS___ [41] [58] [41]
KWHY-TV [42] [22] [42]
KCBS-TV [60] [02] [43]

It looks like VHF channels 7, 9, 11, 13 may be used in the LA DMA for ATSC broadcasts after the analog shut-off.

If I correctly understand the posts and analysis done on the CM4228 (e.g. 6309609), it looks like this antenna would still work well for VHF-hi channels so I am thinking of trying it.

Thanks again for the help,
joemcc

I've said it before, if you're putting in an antenna you'd be a fool not to put in one that can get VHF-hi channels. VHF ain't going away in LA.

The change to VHF would not occur until after the analog shutoff? So sometime in 2009 is that correct? I use a Silver Sensor for ATSC and I know it's UHF only. If I don't need to worry about it for 4 years, I am ok with that. As long as it's not right around the corner.

The change to VHF would not occur until after the analog shutoff?
As I understand it, the change back to VHF-hi will not occur until after the analog shut-off.

So sometime in 2009 is that correct?
That is very likely.

The Senate Commerce Committee is currently proposing April 7, 2009.
The House Commerce Committee is currently proposing December 31, 2008.

The differences for the date are likely to be resolved in the near future.

joemcc

The change to VHF would not occur until after the analog shutoff? So sometime in 2009 is that correct? I use a Silver Sensor for ATSC and I know it's UHF only. If I don't need to worry about it for 4 years, I am ok with that. As long as it's not right around the corner.
The analog shutdown date is the very last cease and desist date for analog.

Nationwide, a small number of stations have already made the decision to shut down analog.

Some other stations may decide at some point along the way that it is in their best interest to connect their
existing digital exciter to their existing VHF transmitter/antenna system to greatly extend their DTV coverage area,
while also trying to recoop some of their investment by leasing out the remaining UHF transmitter/antenna system.....
perhaps to subscription DTV services like USDTV and PPV.

After all, in LA, over 80 percent watch via cable or Sat, which will increase with the upcoming explosion of available HD channels.

So it is hard to predict what will happen a year or two from now.

Congress may help this process along by allowing "selected households" to buy a much lower cost OTA STB for only a $10 co-pay.
Stay tuned on when this program would go into effect. Much lower cost OTA STBs for the rest of us would also help.

Thanks holl_ands, that's a good clarification.

I thought the license granted to the broadcaster was limited to a specific use, so that they would not be able to decide by themselves when to start broadcasting ATSC on the channel that they currently license for NTSC broadcast.

I wonder what will happen in the case of KCAL-TV and KCBS-TV? If the channel designation I have seen is correct, then channel 43 will change from K-CAL (which currently broadcasts ATSC on channel 43 but will finally broadcast ATSC on channel 9) to KCBS-TV (which currently broadcasts ATSC on channel 60 but will finally broadcast ATSC on channel 43).

joemcc

Thanks holl_ands, that's a good clarification.

I thought the license granted to the broadcaster was limited to a specific use, so that they would not be able to decide by themselves when to start broadcasting ATSC on the channel that they currently license for NTSC broadcast.

I wonder what will happen in the case of KCAL-TV and KCBS-TV? If the channel designation I have seen is correct, then channel 43 will change from K-CAL (which currently broadcasts ATSC on channel 43 but will finally broadcast ATSC on channel 9) to KCBS-TV (which currently broadcasts ATSC on channel 60 but will finally broadcast ATSC on channel 43).

joemcc
When broadcasters want to change transmit parameters, they submit a Change Proposal to the FCC.
This has happened quite frequently as they upgrade DTV transmitter power and antenna systems.
Yet another CP would be required to change from NTSC to ATSC.

After a comment period, if the FCC finds that the CP conforms to approved uses for the channel and there is
no substantial reason to deny the CP (such as increased interference to other stations), the FCC would approve it.

CH9, CH38 and CH43 are co-located in one facility on Mt Wilson.
Other channels use a variety of nearby facilites.

CH60 is co-located with antique CH2 in one of those nearby facilities.
[Wonder how old their transmitter equipment and (rusty?) tower might be???]
Since CH2 was not elected, it might be recycled for other non-TV purposes, if it is not demolished....

Since CH60 is outside the DTV core band (CH51 and below), it could no longer transmit ATSC after analog shut down.
However, the ATSC Exciter and High Power Transmitter equipment could be moved to the other facility and
reconfigured for fallback when CH43 has equipment problems. [Lack of backup equipment has been a recurring problem for DTV.]
[KPBS-DT in San Diego lost their HD Encoder nearly 3 months ago....still no HD!!!]

Note that these are my idle speculations and are not based on any knowledge of actual station plans.....
Heck, last time I tried I couldn't even get a whiff of DTV from Mt Wilson from my location 100+ miles away in San Diego....

Actually it is true. Read what I said.

They can put up a logo full screen 60 minutes an hour.
They do not have to air commercials.
They do not have to air programming.
They don't have to air anything.
They could just put up a full screen logo 60 minutes each hour as long as they did a station ID each hour.
They wouldn't have any audience, but they could legally do it.
Thus, there is no law regarding logo placement or size.

Sorry I thought I was adding a bit of insight with respect to advertising operations for TV stations and networks based in REALITY. You know, networks that actually air programming and commercials. If I had known we were talking about some fictitious or fantasy network that does not air programming or commercials then by all means they can do what ever they want with their logos.

I live in Hollywood and I am served by the Van Nuys Adelphia office. I pay $12 for the broadcast basic package, and receive these 5 unscrambled QAM HD channels with my Dvico Fusion 3 Gold-Q HDTV card:

* NBC 94.1
* PBS 100.1
* FOX 100.2
* CBS 101.1
* ABC 102.1


Originally I was paying about $80 for one of their digital packages. In Feb 2005 I bought a front projector and the HDTV card. At that time I wasn't receiving FOX. All my calls to customer service resulted in replies in the line of - "you need to get our HDTV box to receive HDTV" which of course wasn't and isn't true.

Soon I returned the digital box and downgraded first to basic cable, and then to broadcast table. I was glad to find out that I could still receive the unscrambled HD channels, Eventually FOX was added as well, and I believe Adelphia now clearly advertises that these 5 HD channels are unscrambled and available under broadcast basic.

Earlier this year Adelphia used to shift the actual QAM channel numbers for the HD channels around all the time, which of course caused havoc with the software that records HD shows on my PC's hard drive.

Lately, the channel numbers have been stable. Still Adelphia is one horrible company. I hope Time Warner will be an improvement.

I also tried OTA and found out that the only channel I could receive with an indoor Silver Sensor was FOX. I live at the bottom of the Hollywood Hills and have no line of sight with Mt. Wilson.

Hi. I am having OTA reception problems and was directed here by one poster.

I live 5 minutes from downtown LA, and antennaweb lists me as being 17 miles from the antenna farm. I initially used the Terk TV5 indoor antenna but had no luck. I returned that and bought and installed the ss-1000 from winegard.

With different aimings come different problems. I usually get about 2 of the major networks, not all. I was informed by winegard suport that I might be in a multipath area.

Is there any suggestions, or maybe a local antenna guru you might be able to direct me? I sure hope to use the ss-1000 if at all possible. Putting another big antenna in an apartment building might just not cut it with my already understanding manager.

Thanks.

Sorry I thought I was adding a bit of insight with respect to advertising operations for TV stations and networks based in REALITY. You know, networks that actually air programming and commercials. If I had known we were talking about some fictitious or fantasy network that does not air programming or commercials then by all means they can do what ever they want with their logos.

The station I describe is as much reality as any law regarding the size and placement of a logo on the screen.

Hi. I am having OTA reception problems and was directed here by one poster.

I live 5 minutes from downtown LA, and antennaweb lists me as being 17 miles from the antenna farm. I initially used the Terk TV5 indoor antenna but had no luck. I returned that and bought and installed the ss-1000 from winegard.

With different aimings come different problems. I usually get about 2 of the major networks, not all. I was informed by winegard suport that I might be in a multipath area.

Is there any suggestions, or maybe a local antenna guru you might be able to direct me? I sure hope to use the ss-1000 if at all possible. Putting another big antenna in an apartment building might just not cut it with my already understanding manager.

Thanks.

If you have any distribution amplifiers in the system (SS-1000 does not have a Preamp),
then it is possible that it is being overloaded with too much signal.

===============================================
You didn't say exactly where you were located, but sounds like you are close enough to be "under"
the antenna patterns from Mt. Wilson, rather than line-of-sight.
So strong signals bounce off of many objects before you receive them----multipath.

Chosing an antenna with more gain and directionality will suppress multipath signals.
The W-G SS-1000 is absolutely the worst choice since it has very low gain in the desired direction
and very wide beamwidth in all other undesired directions.

You could try the CM4221 (aka CM3021 and CM4225) 4-Bay Bowtie or the less ugly W-G PR4400 or Antennas Direct DB4.
But these antennas still have very wide beamwidths.

The best choice would be the CM4228 8-Bay, which has a very narrow beamwidth to reject multipath.
The aesthetics, on the other hand, are in the eye of the beholder.....

Fox-11 HD is having all sorts of breakup in their HD Football coverage this AM. Not good.

I have checked cable, OTA and satellite and the Fox Giants/Redskins game is currently NOT in HD. Anyone else notice this???? Or are you getting the game in HD? It's the LA Fox station output.

It's in HD in Las Vegas.

It started in HD here in LA. The opening ceremony was in HD.Then when the game started it went SD. Think I'll call the local station.

Nevermind, it just went HD as of 10:37 am. Thanks Fox for waking up. Now try to make your HD look as good as ESPN (also 720p)

does anyone else notice that

the audio volume on CBS 2-1 is way higher than all other channels?

KLCS 58-3 always has audio problems?

thanks!

yes

Yeah. I noticed all of my HD channels with my Hughes E86 Platinum receiver, has reduced volume in comparison to the SD channel's volume level. Basic channel surfing requires an immediate mute/reduction of volume lest my eardrums are reduced to quivering blobs of goo. Granted the sound is cleaner and in 5.1 (via the digital audio coax cable to my AV receiver), however the drastic difference in volume level is annoying. Sure hope D* conversion to MPEG4 equipment makes this problem go away!! :/

No sound on Monday Night Football in HD. Someones getting FIRED! tonight. :eek:

confirmed... no sound with the monday night football broadcast. ugh! :mad:

I had no trouble with sound on MNF. I didn't watch all the time (trick or treat duty) but I never failed to hear sound when I did listen. I started watching at about 6:45 and watched to the end of the game. I have two STB and heard sound on both.

BTW I believe there is a technical reason for 5.1 sound being lower volume than two channel sound. The 5.1 sound has a large dynamic range. That means that the high volumes are much louder than the average volume. Two channel sound has limited dynamic range. Both the 5.1 you hear and the 2 channel have the same max volume but since the 5.1 average volume is much less than the max, I believe that is why you hear the difference in volume.

Rick R