Los Angeles, CA - OTA [Text View] - Page 7

thedonn

11-08-05, 04:32 PM

Hey guys.
Just bought an ATSC Tuner for my computer. I bought the Kworld ATSC 110 and along with it, one of those inside the home "HDTV" antennas that came with power, rabbit ears and an inner circle loop. My den faces north and I live in Inglewood which is pretty much flatland around my home. I put the antenna on top of the top layer of my computer desk, about 7 feet high. It is sitting right next to an open window. First night I had success with ABC, KTTV and CBS, but no NBC or KTLA
Basically 2, 7, 11, PBS stations were good. But the problem is I had geeked up some extra rabbit ear antennas all over the place along with the one I bought. My den looked like I was trying to talk with the space station or something. Now I’m wondering if a regular antenna like the old days of TV would work better. My family has had cable tv/directv/every other kind of pay TV, for so long that our old real rooftop antenna fell off the house and decayed into the ground years ago. It’s sitting next to some T-Rex bones in my back yard. I want to take my DTV antenna back to fry's and get a rooftop one.

Question
1) Does rooftop antennas work better than inside antennas for DTV. I assume yes on that one.
2) What should I be looking for, as far as stats on the antenna?
3) Where should I point this puppy? ( Last night with the rabbit ears shaped in a small V, I was able to point them north and slightly east for the best results for most stations) I assume that’s true too.

Anyway, thanks for the help.

TheRock

11-08-05, 11:38 PM

It seems like all of the shows on ABC tonight have been in SD.

Any known reason for this happening?

HDTVFanAtic

11-09-05, 02:54 AM

It seems like all of the shows on ABC tonight have been in SD.

Any known reason for this happening?

Did not watch ABC out of LA this evening, but I can take a wild stab. Did they run election results on the screen?

picachux

11-09-05, 03:16 AM

Anyone else watching Leno, is it in HD? Im getting pillar boxes on mine. :confused: Wow this sucks, Jennifer Aniston is on Conan and they dont have the HD feed workin! WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

Rick_R

11-09-05, 12:59 PM

Question
1) Does rooftop antennas work better than inside antennas for DTV. I assume yes on that one.
2) What should I be looking for, as far as stats on the antenna?
3) Where should I point this puppy? ( Last night with the rabbit ears shaped in a small V, I was able to point them north and slightly east for the best results for most stations) I assume that’s true too.
1) Yes for many reasons. Stronger signal and more directional to reject reflections.
2) From Inglewood a great antenna is probably not required just get it on the roof and make sure it is directional to reject reflected signals.
3) According to my map from Inglewood point it exactly northeast to get the stations at Mt Wilson.

Rick R

TonyW79SFV

11-09-05, 11:47 PM

Anyone else watching Leno, is it in HD? Im getting pillar boxes on mine. :confused: Wow this sucks, Jennifer Aniston is on Conan and they dont have the HD feed workin! WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

This is kinda related to the reason why ABC was on in SD yesterday: California Special Election; except, for NBC, KNBC ran the news a little longer for extra election converage and because they started Leno late, after the master West Coast HD feed started, KNBC had to delay (in SD) Leno. If you want to watch the 11-08 show in HD, you can try to stay up next Tuesday night (Wednesday morning) and catch the 2:05am rerun in HD or just schedule MyHD or an HD Tivo.

alaindelon

11-10-05, 05:02 AM

It's really sad that a MAJOR O&O network station like KNBC don't have the ability to tape delay the HD feed,i mean how much is a simple dedicated HD capable harddisc server?

TonyW79SFV

11-10-05, 10:28 PM

It's really sad that a MAJOR O&O network station like KNBC don't have the ability to tape delay the HD feed,i mean how much is a simple dedicated HD capable harddisc server?

This is a common problem with most local stations, even network O&O's. I guess it's not in their budget to have an HD delay server as they will be hardly used. Goes to show you how far we've come in the 7 years of HDTV when most of the infrastructure of local stations is still SD and that HD is only passed from the network satellite feed.

KABC can't even delay HD footage from Air7HD from the station (although the coptor does have that capability and it requires the copter to go live to playback previous footage in HD; though the bug still says "LIVE").

HDTVFanAtic

11-11-05, 07:38 AM

It's really sad that a MAJOR O&O network station like KNBC don't have the ability to tape delay the HD feed,i mean how much is a simple dedicated HD capable harddisc server?

If KABC cannot replay Air7 HD feeds, why do you think a network could tape a longer hour long program in HD?

BTW, the only delays feeds of Air7HD are those that are captured in the copter itself and then transmitted to the station, which is why you see them cut between live shots and another angle.

It's actually somewhat comical that the helicopter has more advanced HD Capture and replay capabilities then the actual station.

ShuHorN

11-11-05, 11:09 AM

Is KCET HD 28.1 having problems? I'm not getting any audio.

bajatodd

11-11-05, 02:35 PM

Im getting the D* HD setup with OTA in Sherman Oaks. IS anyone in this area have problems recieving the OTA signals? I live near Woodman and Ventura.

bryankeithg

11-12-05, 01:55 PM

In North Brea just installed a 13' boom VU-190XR on a second story chimney mount on a 10' mast. I can get a few digital stations, KCLS, KTLA, KWHY, KDOC, KCAL but none of the major networks. :(
I can also only get these stations on my Mits integrated tuner. If I try to tune to them on my Media Center PC with Avermedia and ATI HDTV Wonder tuners I can't tune a single digital channel.

Are the stations I am able to get broadcasting with a higher power or am I perhaps off on my pointing towards the transmitters?

Am not giving up yet, going to try an antenna mounted high gain amplifier as a last resort. This is the radio shack amp Model: 15-2507.

bryankeithg

11-12-05, 05:03 PM

If I turn my antenna towards San Diego I can get CBS and ABC. That is before connecting a preamp. Will have to see what I can get from LA and San Diego once I connect the preamp and amp.
That is with the integrated Mits tuner, still nothing with the Media Center PC.

After connecting the amps, can get San Diego ABC, CBS and WB with a solid signal. Could not get the main networks from LA. Going to have to find a channel master or winegard that goes the full color spectrum for CES ratings of antennas. The antenna I have goes to red only and I need violet with amps.

MacFly69

11-12-05, 10:33 PM

need your advice all....

i recently had a buddy of mine, who is a D* installer, help me mount a OTA antenna on the rooftop. he assured me that it was pointed in the right direction!

after a digital scan, i was only getting KNBC, KTLA and KCAL digitally. unfortunately, he had to run so he could adjust the direction of the antenna.

i purchaed an indoor TERK amplified HDTV antenna from radio shack and hooked it up and guess what? i was able to get ALL of the local networks that i was seeking......KCBS, KNBC, KTLA, KABC, KCAL, KTTV and KCOP. drawback is, KCBS, KABC and KTTV signal goes in and out....especially if i come close to the antenna.

my question to you all is.........since i got all the digital channels with the indoor antenna, is my rooftop antenna my buddy installed for me positioned wrong?! my assumption is, yes. i figure, if my indoor antenna can get the channels......the rooftop should easily get them as well, if pointed properly!

thank you in advance for all your input and suggestions!

bryankeithg

11-13-05, 01:45 AM

Macfly69,
Go to antennaweb.org and put in your address. It will tell you where to point your antenna using a compass. It will direct you to the transmitters. Good luck.

erebay

11-14-05, 01:24 PM

I live in Yorba Linda with my major cross steets being Lakeview and Bastanchury and I tried an indoor RCA antenna with a 25 dB gain and bascially got horrible reception. I could make out the picture but that was about it. I am wondering if a OTA antenna pitched on the roof-top would help?

bgooch

11-14-05, 11:11 PM

did anyone else notice the audio & video glitches @ the top of the 8:00pm hour?

Tony Nx

11-16-05, 06:08 AM

Important!! Anytime you find something not working right on an OTA Digitgal broadcast, like bad lip sync, A pgm that should be in HD and is not, missing program guide or any other flaw Please do call the station and let them know you are watching in HD and want the service improved. Most GMs and advertisers think no one is out there watching so they put as little resources as possible into their digitgal side.

Tony

onastov

11-16-05, 09:03 PM

G H

11-17-05, 11:30 PM

did anyone else notice the audio & video glitches @ the top of the 8:00pm hour?

I watched "Surface" at 8pm on KNBCDT and didn't notice any problems. How bad were the glitches?

G H

11-17-05, 11:44 PM

Can anyone post the phone numbers for the big 4 networks in LA?
2 KCBS 323-460-3000
4 KNBC 818-840-4444
5 KTLA 323-460-5500
7 KABC 818-863-7777
9 KCAL 323-460-3000 (owned by CBS)
11 KTTV 310-584-2000
13 KCOP 310-584-2000 (owned by Fox)
24 KVCR 909-384-4330
28 KCET 323-666-6500
30 KPXN 888-467-2988
50 KOCE 714-895-5623
56 KDOC 949-442-9800
58 KLCS 213-625-6958

Those are from the L.A. Times "TV Times". If you see a mistake, post it and I'll edit.

DSperber

11-18-05, 03:28 AM

Can anyone post the phone numbers for the big 4 networks in LA?G H's list of numbers from the LA Times gives the main phone numbers for the stations. Many of these are unanswered after hours, when problems occur that you'd like to report to engineers or maintenance.

I have the following list of "maintenance" numbers that I call when a DTV show has a problem (e.g. SD instead of HD, no audio, multiple-boxes on top half of the screen, etc.):

KCBS - 323-460-3416
KNBC - 818-840-3799
KTLA - 323-460-3917
KABC - 310-863-7467
KTTV - 310-584-3335

joe221

11-18-05, 04:52 PM

G H's list of numbers from the LA Times gives the main phone numbers for the stations. Many of these are unanswered after hours, when problems occur that you'd like to report to engineers or maintenance.

I have the following list of "maintenance" numbers that I call when a DTV show has a problem (e.g. SD instead of HD, no audio, multiple-boxes on top half of the screen, etc.):

KCBS - 323-460-3416
KNBC - 818-840-3799
KTLA - 323-460-3917
KABC - 310-863-7467
KTTV - 310-584-3335

Thanks! This is a great list. You really don't want to try calling the switchboard. :D

hdtval21

11-18-05, 08:49 PM

joe221

11-18-05, 08:53 PM

I was wondering about the Clips/Lakers game tonight on KTLA- sucks that I'm a Laker fan and KCAL can't do this:( Come on KCAL/Lakers, if KTLA and the Clips can show HD...
From KTLA-
"All Clippers home games on KTLA will be in HD. All Clippers vs. Lakers
games on KTLA are in HD this season."

What where you wondering?

Looking forward to the game BTW, I have to do it OTA as Adelphia...just not quite there for KTLA. :(

benway

11-19-05, 10:10 AM

anyone else having problems with NBC 4? signal keeps dropping out-- pixelating.

my reception does usually suffer when there are strong winds in the canyons, however other channels are fine.

thanks

G H

11-19-05, 09:50 PM

I hope this info will help someone else as much as it helped me: According to our TV & DVR, KCOPDT (13-1) is on the frequency assigned to channel 66-3, and KLCSDT (58-1) is on the frequency assigned to channel 41-2. I know these remaps have been mentioned before, but it took me awhile to find the info and recognize its value to me; so perhaps it bears an explicit repetition.

Therefore, I mean to atone for the wrong done by Fortune, who is ever most miserly of user-friendly technology where there is least expertise. As an aid and comfort to those in love with HD, I intend to relate my tale so that those who read it may find delight in the pleasant things therein displayed; and they may also obtain useful advice, since they may learn what things to avoid and what to seek. In this tale will be seen my initial naive happiness, followed by dark days of struggle, and finally joyful triumph, but with enough uncertainty to allow for a sequel. (My apologies to Giovanni Boccaccio.)

Before August 6, I had never used HD. We got a Samsung HL-R5656W TV and were delighted to immediately receive all the channels we care about (and at least a dozen we don't care about), but the next day saw complete breakups on 13-1. I then started deleting channels. I tried to be alert to channels that were new to me (channels not available on our analog TV) that we might like, e.g. 7-2. But if I couldn't find a channel listed on zap2it dot_com or in the L.A. Times TV listings, and the show on at the moment looked unpromising, I deleted it. My guess is that at those fateful moments, perhaps 66-3 (which I did not realize was 13-1) had an infomercial and 41-2 (ditto, 58-1) had a school board meeting.

After that I couldn't get 13-1 anymore, which I figured was because of reception, remembering the breakups. I soon noticed that 13-1 wasn't in the channel list, which puzzled me, but the manual assured me that I could tune to any channel not in the list by entering the number, and because my many attempts at that always resulted in remaining on the current channel, I concluded the reception was insufficient.

I also wasn't getting 58-1, but couldn't remember for sure seeing it before; so I attributed this too to reception. After considering various courses of action, I chose procrastination, because I was too busy repeatedly checking ups dot_com for the latest sighting of the Sony DHG-HDD500 DVR we had ordered, and because I hoped its attempts at these two channels would be enlightening, or perhaps completely successful.

Unlike the TV, the DVR would obligingly tune to 13-1 even though it couldn't get a picture, and it said the signal strength was 5%. I had done some limited reading of this thread, and 5% didn't sound right to me, because the other Mt. Wilson channels strengths were mostly 88%-94%. Now that the difference between 13-1 and the other Mt. Wilson channels was quantified and was so dramatic, I decided to search this thread for "UPN", thinking maybe I would find a post saying it was temporarily off or at low power. (I now realize that it would have made more sense to search for "13" or "KCOP", but "UPN" led me to the answer; so the course that makes the most sense is not always the best.)

I owe thanks to rbarbier, who mentioned UPN, and davefre99, who quoted it. They were discussing what I thought was my problem, so I greedily read the next few posts, including one by DRDenton (thank you also) on a different topic: confusing channel assignments. The concept slowly began to form in my brain that maybe the TV & DVR didn't know what frequency 13-1 was really on.

I then changed my search to "KCOP", and I now want to thank bhchan for mentioning KCOP, and DRDenton again, for quoting it, even though their discussion, valuable and enlightening as it is, was leading me back toward my misdiagnosis. I am grateful because I again devoured the next few posts, arriving at the most important post of all, by holl_ands (thank you so much), which included a link to tvradioworld dot_com/region1/ca/tv.asp?m=los (sorry; I'm not allowed to post URLs yet). Mistakenly thinking I was interested in power levels, I clicked on the link, looked for KCOPDT, and had the glorious epiphany that maybe entering 66 on the TV remote would unveil KCOPDT. I told myself not to get excited, it might not work--but it did! I was even impressed that the TV found 66-3 when I only entered 66, and it's a good thing, because the tvradioworld dot_com link only said 66. (Apparently, when I enter a channel number with no dash, even if there is an analog broadcast there, the TV first looks for a digital broadcast. The DVR just tunes to what I enter and wouldn't have found 66-3.)

I have seen breakups on 13-1 since then, but it's usually fine and so far we've been able to watch what we want without a problem.

I'm still puzzled that both the TV & DVR find no signal when I enter 66-1; they insist that KCOPDT is on 66-3, while I find no reference to that number in this thread--only to 66-1. Likewise, the TV & DVR find no signal at 41-1; they say KLCSDT is on 41-2, with alternate programming on 41-3 through 41-5 (and a pictureless signal on 41-6), even though others on this thread have specifically mentioned 41-1. But I don't suppose it matters.

I'm also perplexed at a difference in behavior between the TV & DVR: after I added 66-3 back into the TV channel list, I can get it by entering 13, 13-1, or 66, (not 66-3), and it displays as "13-1" regardless. The DVR, on the other hand, only finds it if I enter 66-3, and displays it as "66-3". The same pattern applies to 41-2 (58-1). I guess this doesn't matter either.

Here's my real question: Our DVR has TV Guide software, and the day after I set it up, it had TV listings for the next couple of days, but since then it more often than not says "No Listing" in every timeslot for every channel. When it does have listings, they are only for the next day or two (the unit is supposed to show listings for the next 8 days). The DVR is off and not recording for most of each day and night. Does anyone else have TV Guide software? Do you always have listings for the next 8 days?

EvilEuro

11-20-05, 07:23 PM

I have a buddy that just moved to Signal Hill and he's now on the shadow side of the hill. His major cross streets are PCH and Cherry. I was thinking of advising him to get a Winegard SquareShooter, but a check on antennaweb.org shows that he'd only receive one digital channel and that's with a violet level antenna.

Is there anyone living in the Signal Hill area using any form of outdoor antenna that can confirm what stations they're receiving? This would be especially helpful if you have a SquareShooter, but any information is helpful so we can make an appropriate antenna choice for his location. He has Dish Network, so going the cable route with Charter isn't an option and we're looking at strictly OTA antenna options here.

HDTVFanAtic

11-21-05, 01:30 AM

miketech

11-22-05, 11:10 PM

I live behind anita hill w/ power lines and the redondo beach police/city hall w/ their giant communications tower in front of my apartment bldg. I can't even receive decent FM.

So get the biggest yagi (Wineguard I use) and tweak that to MT Wilson. Almost 100% on all channels on 3 of my tuners. Good Luck...

miketech

11-22-05, 11:48 PM

since i got all the digital channels with the indoor antenna, is my rooftop antenna my buddy installed for me positioned wrong?! my assumption is, yes. i figure, if my indoor antenna can get the channels......the rooftop should easily get them as well, if pointed properly!

thank you in advance for all your input and suggestions!

Not only the direction of a yagi UHF antenna(Channel Master or Wineguard) has to be pointed accurately. the location on the roof plays a major role.
Ideally, have one person hold the antenna/mask for different positioning, and a another person monitoring the signal strength at the TV.
Position the antenna, wait a few seconds for the tuner to settle for best signal strength. Now, if you do not have a signal strength meter on your tuner or an expensive spectrum analyzer, a portable TV tuned to an UHF channel will be the next best thing. I've been enjoying digital TV for 3 yrs and have 2 DirecTV/OTA tuners and a HDTV tuner on my HTPC.

gohd

11-29-05, 06:00 PM

FYI: Per hdsportsguide.com, UCLA/SC game is in 720p HD on ABC on 12/3. Might be better than actually being there.

guamster

11-29-05, 07:00 PM

FYI: Per hdsportsguide.com, UCLA/SC game is in 720p HD on ABC on 12/3. Might be better than actually being there.

I have my HD DVR set. I love my HDTV but nothing beats being in the stadium for this annual match-up of crosstown rivals. I will be attending my 11th USC-UCLA on Saturday and I cannot wait.

joe221

11-29-05, 09:46 PM

FYI: Per hdsportsguide.com, UCLA/SC game is in 720p HD on ABC on 12/3. Might be better than actually being there.

I hope! Titan doesn't say this. They were wrong about the T-Day Parade too. At the last moment they changed it to HD.

jwcrash

11-29-05, 09:48 PM

CBS ran two episodes of "HD To The Max" a few days ago (Solarmax & Antarctica) and Titan NEVER listed them as HD.

Go figure. :D

gohd

11-30-05, 12:04 PM

I hope! Titan doesn't say this. They were wrong about the T-Day Parade too. At the last moment they changed it to HD.
A commercial this wknd had the ABC-HD logo during a listing of this coming weekend's games, so let's hope it's true. HDsportsguide.com had a "TBD" in this time slot several weeks ago.

Rick_R

11-30-05, 12:40 PM

I will be attending the UCLA vs USC game also. However I will tape the game in HD and watch it again when I get home.

Rick R

n8dagr8

11-30-05, 08:04 PM

SD73

12-01-05, 04:46 PM

This isn't perfect, but it will give you some of what you're looking for. Just put in your zip code.

http://ww1.titantv.com/quickguide/quickguide.aspx

holl_ands

12-02-05, 03:05 AM

Hi all,

I'm about to move to LA (Burbank) and was wondering if there is a list of all the OTA channels (kinda like our second post - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=365749&page=1&pp=30) that included info like signal strength (output) and sub channels.

Also, what areas get LA locals via sat - D*? I assume Burbank will, which would mean I would get the HD locals, no? Thanks!

N8
For list of OTA channels and sub-channels in LA Area:
http://www.tvradioworld.com/region1/ca/tv.asp?m=los
Be sure to click on the continuation link at the bottom to see FOX & UPN.

Note that the sub-channel numbers correspond to the "REAL" channel assignments
and should change to the "Virtual" channel numbers (e.g. 4.1, 5.1, etc)
once the STB decodes the PSIP information embedded in the signal.

All of LA/Riverside see the same channels on D* (FYI: Burbank is 91501....)
You can check D* local channel offerings via zipcode lookup:
http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/see/LocalChannels.jsp?init=true

Rick_R

12-02-05, 12:34 PM

Your reception in Burbank is dependant on where in Burbank you live. If you live on western flatlands you should hvave no problem. If you live in the foothills there may be a problem. There was a very long thread several years ago about a guy in the foothills and the difficulty he had getting OTA from Mt Wilson (He got San Diego better). However in the flatlands there should be no problem.

Rick R

bgooch

12-02-05, 01:03 PM

Until a couple of weeks ago my off air reception was excellent. Then CBS, ABC, UPN & PBS dropped out. Last Sunday CBS came in long enough to enjoy the 2nd half of the Charger game but the signal was gone before nightfall. Daytime KABC & PBS also comes in sometimes. I am thankful KNBC, KTLA, KCAL & KOCE are consistently available.

Located on the wrong side of a hill facing downtown in Echo Park I do not have line of sight to Mt. Wilson. A CM UHF antenna was installed on the roof & is routed through an antenna amp. When the reception began dropping out I noticed the disappearing channels came back momentarily after I had checked the connections on the amp.

Is there any hope for improved reception within fringe areas? A stones throw from downtown LA & I can't receive many of the local stations. If I read one more expert say with DT either you get the signal or you don't I'm gonna flame em.

joe221

12-03-05, 06:34 PM

Is anyone else hearing clicking sounds in the rear channels of the CBS 5.1 sound from the LSU game? I've heard this before. It's only on CBS and only on games. I get it on Adelphia and OTA.

SD73

12-03-05, 08:35 PM

I was hearing some clicking too, yesterday. I don't recall what channel or time it was though, but it was coming from the rear speakers on OTA.

jwcrash

12-04-05, 12:04 PM

My reception on ABC7 has been horribly inconsistant the last 24 hours (including during the USC-UCLA game!). It's usually rock solid, so I'm wondering what it could be. Anyone else?

mkl05

12-04-05, 01:41 PM

I was hearing some clicking too, yesterday. I don't recall what channel or time it was though, but it was coming from the rear speakers on OTA.

Yes! Wow i thought i was hearing things. I as well get the annoying clicking sound only during sports broadcasts. I get CBS OTA here in So Cal also.

joe221

12-04-05, 02:03 PM

Yes! Wow i thought i was hearing things. I as well get the annoying clicking sound only during sports broadcasts. I get CBS OTA here in So Cal also.

At first I thought it was a statium mike picking up a fan making noise. Then I realized that, that fan was travelling to EVERY CBS game. I thought differently. Then I thought it might be me, but it's only on CBS and only in 5.1, eithe OTA or on Adelphia. So it's NOT Adelphia! OK It's CBS, who do we tell? Do they know? It's really annoying! And loud!

joe221

12-04-05, 02:05 PM

My reception on ABC7 has been horribly inconsistant the last 24 hours (including during the USC-UCLA game!). It's usually rock solid, so I'm wondering what it could be. Anyone else?

GMA wasn't in HD this morning and I called engineering. He said he'd check but it went off the air before I could tell if he fixed it. The USC game dropped HD in the last 20 minutes. I called and a few minutes into the next game it popped back to HD. My friends were impressed. ;)

dep3523

12-04-05, 05:28 PM

At first I thought it was a statium mike picking up a fan making noise. Then I realized that, that fan was travelling to EVERY CBS game. I thought differently. Then I thought it might be me, but it's only on CBS and only in 5.1, eithe OTA or on Adelphia. So it's NOT Adelphia! OK It's CBS, who do we tell? Do they know? It's really annoying! And loud!

I live in Orange County and I've been hearing the clicking on CBS for at least the past week. And it's not just during sports, I first heard it during Cold Case and have noticed it on everything CBS broadcasts in HD. I have 2 HD receivers and they both have the clicking noise. The noise is there when the program is in HD, but disappears when they go to commercials. It doesn't matter if the commercials are HD or SD, the clicking noise is only during the actual HD program. This is ridiculous.

SD73

12-04-05, 07:17 PM

Yes! Wow i thought i was hearing things. I as well get the annoying clicking sound only during sports broadcasts. I get CBS OTA here in So Cal also.

Hey, I'm in Cucamonga too, mkl05! How's your reception? Mine is pretty excellent on virtually all my stations. My channel 11.1 will occasionally dip below 70 but that and most every thing else is usually between 80-90percent on my receiver.

HDTVFanAtic

12-05-05, 01:44 AM

CBS Network HD Gurus in NYC made aware of this - I am sure they will determine quickly if it is national problem or only at KCBS-DT.

mkl05

12-05-05, 10:29 AM

Hey, I'm in Cucamonga too, mkl05! How's your reception? Mine is pretty excellent on virtually all my stations. My channel 11.1 will occasionally dip below 70 but that and most every thing else is usually between 80-90percent on my receiver.

Heya, I'm located at Baseline/Haven and get fairly good reception. I have a Channel Master 4228 on my roof with a CM 7775 preamp. Channels 2 and 4 come in great for me, the problem channels for me is 7 and 11 (I don't notice much about 5/9/13 since their HD programming is nil or limited). It's really strange since the towers are pretty much located in the same area but there's about a 5 degree difference between the locks of 7 and 11. I seem to have found a happy medium between the two lately and can receive both of them with occasional dropouts on 7. Max signal strength for 7/11 is around 75% with 2/4 coming in at 85-90% and never a dropout.

Channel 5 has been a treat lately with the HD clippers games which look great. These games are not listed as HD on titantv.com or hdsportsguide.com. Pretty silly that we're getting clippers games broadcast in HD locally before lakers, but considering how badly the lakers are playing this year i'm not complaining.

I tried creating a thread here to serve the Inland Empire folks for OTA reception but it didn't get much attention. You'd think there's enough people out here to warrant their own discussion since Los Angeles is a pretty large area but doesn't really apply to us. but oh well.

n8dagr8

12-05-05, 10:45 AM

For list of OTA channels and sub-channels in LA Area:
http://www.tvradioworld.com/region1/ca/tv.asp?m=los
Be sure to click on the continuation link at the bottom to see FOX & UPN.
http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/see/LocalChannels.jsp?init=true

That's what I was looking for. Thanks!

SD73

12-05-05, 12:13 PM

Heya, I'm located at Baseline/Haven and get fairly good reception. I have a Channel Master 4228 on my roof with a CM 7775 preamp. Channels 2 and 4 come in great for me, the problem channels for me is 7 and 11 (I don't notice much about 5/9/13 since their HD programming is nil or limited). It's really strange since the towers are pretty much located in the same area but there's about a 5 degree difference between the locks of 7 and 11. I seem to have found a happy medium between the two lately and can receive both of them with occasional dropouts on 7. Max signal strength for 7/11 is around 75% with 2/4 coming in at 85-90% and never a dropout.

Channel 5 has been a treat lately with the HD clippers games which look great. These games are not listed as HD on titantv.com or hdsportsguide.com. Pretty silly that we're getting clippers games broadcast in HD locally before lakers, but considering how badly the lakers are playing this year i'm not complaining.

I tried creating a thread here to serve the Inland Empire folks for OTA reception but it didn't get much attention. You'd think there's enough people out here to warrant their own discussion since Los Angeles is a pretty large area but doesn't really apply to us. but oh well.

Now that you mention it, I did post in your thread some time ago. I'm off of Baseline and Rochester. I'm using the 91XG with no preamp. I have no drop out problems what so ever on 2 - 13. I have strong reception on all my Mount Wilson channels all the way up to 62.

I did considered the same CM as you did, but after doing some research I found the directionality of the 91XG and the gain it provided to be perfect for my location. I was quite suprised. My VHF reception has always been pretty much non existent.

Rbyers

12-05-05, 12:27 PM

We're trying to get my wife's 90 year old aunt cable TV Service. I've tried www.thisiscable.com to no avail. It's response is "We can't find a match in our system for the Address/Zip code that you entered - and gives me a list of every cable company in Southern California.

She lives a couple of blocks south of Wilshire Blvd near the Santa Monica/LA border on the LA side. Zip Code 90025.

Would appreciate any suggestions.

TIA for your help.

holl_ands

12-05-05, 09:40 PM

joe221

12-05-05, 10:42 PM

HDTVFanAtic

12-06-05, 12:37 PM

CBS Network HD Gurus in NYC made aware of this - I am sure they will determine quickly if it is national problem or only at KCBS-DT.

Problem was on KCBS-DTs end. It was quickly addressed and fixed around 10PM last night in time for CSI Miami.

Kudos to avsforum members for making everyone aware of this as well as to CBS Network Personnel in NY and the KCBS-DT Engineering staff who acted to get it fixed the same day after being notified of the problem.

joe221

12-06-05, 12:42 PM

Problem was on KCBS-DTs end. It was quickly addressed and fixed around 10PM last night in time for CSI Miami.

Kudos to avsforum members for making everyone aware of this as well as to CBS Network Personnel in NY and the KCBS-DT Engineering staff who acted to get it fixed the same day after being notified of the problem.

Good work and thanks!
:D

openwheelracing

12-08-05, 03:08 AM

I live in Upland. 2nd floor apartment. Trees in the way between my antenna and Mt. Wilson. I tried RCA's "horn" looking antenna, couple Terks. Finally I tried Zenith Silver Sensor and now I have near 100 on every single channel. (2,4,5,7,9,11,13, and PBSs) It runs directly into my HTPC's Dvico Fusion5.

ps. no amp either.

joe221

12-08-05, 01:28 PM

SD73

12-08-05, 05:51 PM

Chardog, Do you mean you hooked up and indoor amped antenna inline, between your cable and receiver?

HDTVFanAtic

12-09-05, 05:41 AM

from my previous thread:

This is a trick I found without much money: I subscribed to timewarner cable internet, and few weeks later, I took off the filter to get locals.

If anyone wants to avoid high cable charges, and do this legit, subscribe to antenna service/value basic and get hd with your own receiver!

When you get busted for a felony, you will found out how "legit" this really was.

Chardog

12-09-05, 03:50 PM

Chardog, Do you mean you hooked up and indoor amped antenna inline, between your cable and receiver?
yes;

When I hooked up the indoor antenna alone; barely any channels, and no HD. The cable gave me only analog; when I hooked up both, I got HD.

HDfanatic: if you dont like it, dont cry about it. I'm trying to help people out legitimately as I can without stealing.

jc_cc_275

12-09-05, 11:25 PM

Hi

I guess I caught this thread at a right time. I am in the midst of experimenting with OTA HD here in the La Canada/La Crescenta area just northwest of Pasadena. The actual distance to Mt Wilson is less than 10mi which is a positive. The fact that this area is hilly and also has a bit of trees/vegetation makes this challenging... I think... (I'm a dabbler, not a pro)

Here are the details on my "experiment" (which is quickly turning into an obsession)

+ CM4228 on a 5' mast mounted on the outside (eve of the house). There are some branches as well as a guy wire/cable that supports a nearby utility pole that can be considered in the direct path. It's not significant but I can't tell whether it's a factor or not

+ Dish 811 receiver

+ Experimented with a AP4800 pre-amp (see below)

+ There is a grounding block between the antenna and the receiver

Here's what I was getting w/o the pre-amp (and with a 5' mast)

KCBS ~87% (yellow UHF, 7.9mi)
KNBC ~77% (yellow UHF, 8mi)
KTLA ~71% (yellow UHF 7.9mi)
KABC ~69% (blue UHF, 7.9mi)
KCAL ~66% (yellow UHF, 7.9mi)
KFOX ~78% (violet UHF, 8.1mi)
KVCR ~66% (red UHF, 55.1mi)
KCET ~64% (violet UHF, 8.1mi)

When I introduce the pre-amp into the equation, not much changed; one channel went up while another went down. Most surprising of all is that not a single channel dropped out due to the pre-amp, which is something I would have expected due to the high gain of my pre-amp and the proximity I'm to Mt Wilson.. somewhat disappointed that I'm not seeing the overloading effect...

I am in the middle of elevating the antenna (using a 10' mast instead of 5') and aiming away from Mt Wilson to test how sever multi-path is in my case (and also how well the 4228 handles it)

I'll post my results in due time. In the mean time, if anyone has lessons learned that could help me out in my situation, it would be greatly appreciated.

mkl05

12-10-05, 01:12 PM

Why bother with the 4228 and an amp if you're within 10 miles. Just hookup a cheap zenith silver sensor and you should get a lock on all Mt. Wilson signals. You could set it up in your attic to avoid the eyesore. The 4228 is a highly directional long range antenna, I bet you'd get better signals with the silver sensor.

Pancho Villa

12-11-05, 08:53 PM

SD73

12-11-05, 09:05 PM

I'd try the XG91, Pancho. I'm out in Rancho Cucamonga about the same distance you are from Mount Wilson. I get all the channels strong and don't need a preamp.

gohd

12-11-05, 11:18 PM

I've tried two different Radio Shack Yagi's and have had the same result with both. The 75 mile range and 120 mile range antennas (I know I don't need that much range, Mt. Wilson is about 35 miles away) both gave me NBC, ABC, and KTLA without a problem. I was unable to receive CBS, Fox or KCOP. For sport viewing reasons, I'd obviously love to have CBS and Fox.

I've read on the boards about the Radio Shack Yagi's having difficulty getting higher numbered channels, like Fox and CBS. So should I expect a Channel Master 4228 to do the job? Any input will be greatly appreciated, thanks.
4228 did the job for me (about 10 mi closer to you along same line to Mt Wilson). Tried an RS yagi and mainly couldn't get KCOP. Put up the 4228 a year ago, and haven't had a problem since. Bought mine at Anaheim Fry's w/ a 10' mast. FYI: they appeared to be out of 'em when I was there this weekend. Maybe the others have 'em.

Pancho Villa

12-11-05, 11:43 PM

4228 did the job for me (about 10 mi closer to you along same line to Mt Wilson). Tried an RS yagi and mainly couldn't get KCOP. Put up the 4228 a year ago, and haven't had a problem since. Bought mine at Anaheim Fry's w/ a 10' mast. FYI: they appeared to be out of 'em when I was there this weekend. Maybe the others have 'em.

I'm going to hit up the Fountain Valley Fry's this week. Thanks for the info guys.

openwheelracing

12-12-05, 02:32 AM

balpers

12-12-05, 03:19 AM

I just noticed this on tonight's "West Wing" on OTA. I also record this program on my UTV in SD. The problem does not exist on the recording.

picachux

12-12-05, 07:37 AM

I want to know how well the spanish local stations come in around the Downtown L.A area? Im right down the hill from Belmont High School, if anyones knows the area. I dont use OTA at the moment, I use Comcast Antenna service which gives me just CBS, PBS, NBC, KTLA, ABC and Fox Digital. I was wondering if purchasing an antenna and trying to tune in UPN and KCAL along with any spanish local stations would be impossible. I would have to use an indoor because I live in a small apartment building. I checked antennaweb and it shows that i am 15.8-16.3 miles from almost all red - uhf. Any tips or suggestions would be gladly welcomed. :confused:

* red - uhf KTBN-DT 23.1 TBN SANTA ANA CA 32° 16.3 23
* red - uhf KTLA-DT 5.1 WB LOS ANGELES CA 31° 16.3 31
* red - uhf KWHY-DT 22.1 IND LOS ANGELES CA 31° 16.3 42
* red - uhf KPXN-DT 30.1 i SAN BERNARDINO CA 34° 15.8 38
* red - uhf KRCA-DT 62.1 IND RIVERSIDE CA 34° 15.8 68
* red - uhf KXLA-DT 44.1 IND RANCHO PALOS VERDES CA 31° 16.3 51
* red - uhf KSCI-DT 18.1 IND LONG BEACH CA 34° 15.8 61
* red - uhf KVEA-DT 39 TEL CORONA CA TBD 34° 15.8 39
* red - uhf KOCE-DT 50.1 PBS HUNTINGTON BEACH CA 31° 16.3 48
* red - uhf KDOC-DT 56.1 IND ANAHEIM CA 31° 16.3 32
* red - uhf KTTV-DT 11.1 FOX LOS ANGELES CA 32° 16.3 65
* red - uhf KMEX-DT 34.1 UNI LOS ANGELES CA 31° 16.3 35
* red - uhf KCAL-DT 9.1 IND LOS ANGELES CA 31° 16.3 43
* red - uhf KCBS-DT 2.1 CBS LOS ANGELES CA 30° 16.3 60
* red - uhf KNBC-DT 4.1 NBC LOS ANGELES CA 32° 16.3 36
* red - uhf KJLA-DT 57.1 IND VENTURA CA 31° 16.3 49
* red - uhf KLCS-DT 58.1 PBS LOS ANGELES CA 32° 16.3 41
* red - uhf KCET-DT 28.1 PBS LOS ANGELES CA 32° 16.3 59
* red - uhf KCOP-DT 13.1 UPN LOS ANGELES CA 31° 16.3 66
* red - uhf KFTR-DT 46.1 TFA ONTARIO CA TBD 31° 16.3 29
* red - uhf KAZA-DT 54.1 AZA AVALON CA TBD 31° 16.3 47
* red - uhf KABC-DT 7.1 ABC LOS ANGELES CA 31° 16.3 53
* blue - uhf KVMD-DT 23.1 IND TWENTYNINE PALMS CA 77° 83.3 23

gohd

12-12-05, 11:16 AM

Question: is there something wrong with NBC's audio? The volume from NBC is much lower than others. I use a HTPC and Sony receiver via Toslink S/pdif. It's very annoying having to adjust volume every time I tune to NBC.
Actually, I seemed to notice a problem w/ CBS last week (Tivo'd HD Letterman episode), where the volume seemed to wax/wane. Hopefully, it's not a problem w/ my equipment.

joe221

12-12-05, 11:23 PM

Titan is just useless, isn't it?? Elton John is in HD tonight, but not listed as such in Titan! :rolleyes:

joe221

12-14-05, 11:10 PM

Speaking of Elton.
I just watched the Red Piano show from Monday. Did anyone else see it. I watched it via a Moxi PVR and boy-howdy, it looked like crap. It was in "HD" but it looked like it was up-converted. There was all sorts of pixelization and break up. Can anyone comment. It wasn't the Moxi as I watched other shows that looked normal.

balpers

12-14-05, 11:16 PM

I caught the first 15 minutes on OTA. (Los Angeles) No problems.

bgooch

12-14-05, 11:56 PM

last evening's remaining NBC shows looked better. I was watching Elton ota & thinking something didn't look right.

SD73

12-16-05, 11:00 AM

Is channel 13.1 down for everyone?

Rick Raymo

12-16-05, 01:03 PM

They seem to be having issues and showing up on their actual frequency (66.3) rather than the assigned channel of 13.1.

FYI.

SD73

12-16-05, 01:47 PM

Thanks Rick, I'll check that out.

governorb

12-16-05, 07:20 PM

Got a quick question. I just bought a zenith silver sensor antenna from amazon. After looking at the manula I am wondering if I will be able to get 2-13 local HD reception. The manual says only for UHF. I am mainly interested in 2-13 local channels.

Thanks

SD73

12-16-05, 07:28 PM

You'll get them as their digital equivalents. They'll show up as 2.1, 4.1 etc but they're actually broadcast in the UHF area.

governorb

12-16-05, 07:43 PM

You'll get them as their digital equivalents. They'll show up as 2.1, 4.1 etc but they're actually broadcast in the UHF area.

So 2-13 hd channels are broadcast through uhf? Makes sense. So I shouldnt worry about this statement?

"When using the enclosed antenna, you will only receive UHF
channels. To receive VHF channels (Channels numbered 1 thru 13),
you must slso connect a VHF antenna to the TV."

Thanks

SD73

12-16-05, 07:56 PM

You'll just need an HD receiver.

governorb

12-16-05, 09:20 PM

You'll just need an HD receiver.

My TV has one, so I'm covered there. Thanks for your help.

Pancho Villa

12-17-05, 08:26 PM

So I'm able to get all channels, but I'm having a problem with CBS audio. Is that a common happening, to have the audio go in and out at times?

picachux

12-17-05, 10:12 PM

So I'm able to get all channels, but I'm having a problem with CBS audio. Is that a common happening, to have the audio go in and out at times?

Same here, started last night. Woke up this morning and it was gone, but right after the football game it started backup again. It's been like that ever since, im hoping it gets fixed soon. Sound comes in for like 2-3 secs and goes out for 2-3 secs, repeat over and over. :confused:

Using Comcast Antenna Service to pickup the Local Digital Channels. 90017 zip code. :mad:

openwheelracing

12-20-05, 06:46 AM

I am glad I wasn't the only one w/ audio "dropouts" from cbs a few days ago. All seems to work fine now.

I still can't stand that nbc's volume is significantly lower than everyone elses'

harleymb41

12-21-05, 01:53 PM

mingus

12-21-05, 02:04 PM

Hi,

Sorry for the "newbie" questions, but I reside in Buena Park (90638) and am looking for a roof-mounted UHF antenna to receive OTA HD signals.

Because I am a bit "impatient" (and because I have a STB that I just got on ebay) I want to find a good quality antenna similar to a CM 4228, in the LOCAL area. I know Fry's locations have these from time to time, but are there other options as far as retailers and models?? What can one expect to pay on "short notice", meaning without Internet shopping? Other models/brands to consider besides CM 4228 ??

And in general, how much RG6 cable is needed, and what else might I need? (mounting hardware, tools etc..)

I have an old VHF-style antenna already on my roof (from the previous owner of the house), so can I simply remove the "antenna" section and attach the HD antenna to the same mast??

Thanks in advance for the advice..
HB

I went to http://www.antennaweb.org and this tells me you are 22 miles from Mt. Wilson. Can you see the antennas? I'm not an expert either, but looks doable. a rooftop antenna gives you your best chance. Might as well get a decent UHF antenna and get a buddy to help you point it. why not use the old mast? sawasdee krup.

rttrek

12-21-05, 02:31 PM

Why not hook up to the existing antenna and try it? Many older yagi antennas were good at UHF *and* VHF. I use one in Placentia and get every channel easily.

holl_ands

12-21-05, 02:35 PM

Hi,

Sorry for the "newbie" questions, but I reside in Buena Park (90638) and am looking for a roof-mounted UHF antenna to receive OTA HD signals.

Because I am a bit "impatient" (and because I have a STB that I just got on ebay) I want to find a good quality antenna similar to a CM 4228, in the LOCAL area. I know Fry's locations have these from time to time, but are there other options as far as retailers and models?? What can one expect to pay on "short notice", meaning without Internet shopping? Other models/brands to consider besides CM 4228 ??

And in general, how much RG6 cable is needed, and what else might I need? (mounting hardware, tools etc..)

I have an old VHF-style antenna already on my roof (from the previous owner of the house), so can I simply remove the "antenna" section and attach the HD antenna to the same mast??

Thanks in advance for the advice..
HB

CM4228 cost me about $50 at Frys in San Diego.
But it is overkill in your location and has such a narrow beam, you might not be able to also receive KVCR-DT excellent alternative PBS-HD feed coming from San Bernardino.
A CM4221 4-Bay should be about half that cost if you can find one locally (on-line shipping for antennas is not cheap).
The CM4221 has a generous beamwidth to pickup both Mt Wilson and San Bernardino if you "split-the-difference" when pointing it.

You could reuse your existing antenna mount, but might also want to consider some alternative installation methods:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6407162&#post6407162

harleymb41

12-21-05, 05:56 PM

Why not hook up to the existing antenna and try it? Many older yagi antennas were good at UHF *and* VHF. I use one in Placentia and get every channel easily.

So you are saying that an "ancient" antenna that's been unused on my rooftop for perhaps 7-8 YEARS, could still be connected to an HDTV set top box in my house and it WOULD receive just as well as a more "modern" unit??

Do I not need to "upgrade" to an RG-6 type of cable if this antenna still has typical co-axial attached to it??

Thanks in advance..
HB

gohd

12-21-05, 06:46 PM

harleymb41,
My cheapo 30 yr old combo uhf/vhf antenna actually picked-up most of the major digital stations, although I ended up w/ a 4228 since I couldn't get KCOP (like I ever watch it!). The 4228's probably overkill where I live (near 605/91 interchange), so I've always wondered if the 4221 would've been fine since it's a little less conspicuous. But Fry's had the 4228 for cheap, so stuck with it.

If it's not too difficult, consider changing the mount & mast, since it's so cheap. When installing my antenna, the bolts on my chimney mount were rusted out and snapped when I tried to loosen the mount to remove the mast. Worth the couple buck IMO.

Larry Parker

12-21-05, 07:52 PM

I think KABC-DT and KCAL-DT finally increased their power output. After well over a year of not being able to watch channel 7 because I was only getting about 53% signal strength, today I am getting about 73%--just enough to be watchable using my DVICO Fusion 3 Gold HDTV card in my computer. KCAL seems to have been slowly increasing their transmission power recently. I am getting low to mid 70's, again, just enough to be watchable. I can now get all seven of the major LA stations. For some unknown reason, KABC-DT and KCAL-DT are broadcasting in the same semi-widescreen as KTLA. It looks like they stretched the 4x3 format. Everybody looks wiiiide!

fuyuki

12-21-05, 09:16 PM

my indoor antenna can't receive ABC and CBS. It can receive all other channel OTA. do i need to change my old indoor antenna to something newer? if so, which one should i buy. My T.V already has hdtv integrated, don't need a tuner. I want to want to watch ABC monday night football.....

edit: i'm planning to buy Terk Indoor Amplified HDTV Antenna HDTVA. is this a good antenna?

openwheelracing

12-22-05, 04:38 PM

I would like to just recommend anyone who is not getting every channel they want: TRY THE ZENITH SILVER SENSOR. I get near 100% on all channels. There is a big tree and an airport between my apartment and mt. wilson. I don't have it mounted by the window. It has to go through 3 walls. You gotta point in the right direction, and mount it HIGH. I live on the second floor 28 miles away btw. Also I don't even use an amp.

I've tried 2 terks: tv55 and some rabbit style antenna. Both were crap compared to the silver sensor.

JTAnderson

12-22-05, 04:49 PM

edit: i'm planning to buy Terk Indoor Amplified HDTV Antenna HDTVA. is this a good antenna?
I have no first-hand experience, but it is nearly impossible to find anyone around here who has anything good to say about Terk antennas.

joe221

12-22-05, 04:59 PM

gohd

12-22-05, 05:37 PM

I have no first-hand experience, but it is nearly impossible to find anyone around here who has anything good to say about Terk antennas.
Probably sorta like Bose and Monster. They market there products well, but people here know there's no need for a special "HDTV" antenna. Terk stuff probably works, people just don't think it's worth the extra premium they charge.

thedonn

12-22-05, 06:50 PM

Here's a funny story I posted to another forum.

I looked up in my attic over my den and there's a perfectly good antenna mounted up there amoung the dust and dirt.

Why is that funny? cuz i've lived in this house 35 years, since I was 2. Never looked in the attic. And the thing looks brand new. The wires were going to some part of the house. I know their endpoint has been painted over long ago and removed cuz I dont know about em. I clipped them and dropped them down thru the door and I hooked it up to my HDPC. I used the ATSC signal meter and my NBC went from 84 from my boosted radio shack antenna, to a solid 88.

on a side note, there's a light bulb up there that hasnt been turned on in 20+ years.

the door to the attic
http://www.califunknya.com/pc/jeff.jpg

the antenna

http://www.califunknya.com/pc/ant.jpg

fuyuki

12-22-05, 06:53 PM

i would try ZENITH SILVER SENSOR. one question about amazon shipping. what do they use? fedex or UPS?

joe221

12-22-05, 06:57 PM

i would try ZENITH SILVER SENSOR. one question about amazon shipping. what do they use? fedex or UPS?

Generally UPS or USPS.

thecrazykevy

12-22-05, 08:14 PM

I have no first-hand experience, but it is nearly impossible to find anyone around here who has anything good to say about Terk antennas.
I have the Terk HDTVa and it works fine for me. I'm only about 13 miles from my broadcasting towers though. So i'm able to hide the antenna on the floor behind my tv stand and still get almost full signal strength for the majority of the stations and it never drops below 70% on any stations. I get 100% signal on almost all stations except 2 or 3 spanish stations if I place it on my TV stand but it doesn't that look great and isn't that compact so I just hide it behind my TV stand. I think the amplification does work pretty well. When I turn it off, I lose about 20-30% signal strength.

kepper

12-22-05, 09:26 PM

I got a Direct TV HD Tivo last week and have been futzing around with antennas for the last two weeks because I want to get OTA on some of the channels that D* doesn't carry.

I live in Newport Beach, 42 miles from the tower site on Mt. Wilson.

I first started with a Silver Sensor, reception was sporadic, which is to be expected with my distance from the towers. And I'm sure the chicken wire in the stucco siding just makes things worse for an indoor antenna.

Then I tried a Radio Shack indoor antenna (15-1880) which worked pretty well considering it was indoors and pointed at my neighbors house! :-) But I knew I needed an outside antenna to get consistent reception on all the channels I wanted to watch.

I was going to get a Channel Master 4228 but there were issues with the size and the appearance, its a big antenna. So I ended up with the Winegard Square Shooter 2000. It is awesome... I get very consistent signals on all of the channels with signal strength from the mid 80's to the low 90's. And I was able to "hide" the antenna by placing it on the side of my house pointed at my neighbor's roof. Even at that position it works surprisingly well. I never expected to get such strong signals being 40+ miles from the antenna farm.

Kevin

holl_ands

12-22-05, 09:32 PM

My Silver Sensor came by UPS from Amazon.com
Don't forget to order something else (CD, whatever) to push total over $25 to get free shipping.

airpolgas

12-22-05, 09:45 PM

I did not have the same luck with the Silver Sensor, considering I am 17 miles away from Wilson (5 mins from Staples). I am apparently located at a multi-path site, and I was told by one of the posters here that the SS is really bad for multipath issues.

Once I get the CM4228, which is considerebly cheaper than the SS, I might just sell my SS here, because people not in multi-path areas seem to have success with it (it's actually rated for 60+ miles). I'll be sure to write my experiences with my ad though, so at least the prospective buyer will be informed of the pros and cons with this antenna.

I'm glad the SS worked for you.

fuyuki

12-23-05, 12:01 AM

kepper

12-23-05, 12:34 AM

i live in arcadia. would silver sensor be bad at arcadia. http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Address.aspx shows that in yellow - uhf, i live less than 10miles away from the station for each yellow uhf channel.

The Silver Sensor should work well for you... in fact, you may have to put a attenuator on it to reduce signal strength, depending on the sensitivity and the chip set used in your ATSC tuner. You also may have some multipathing issues from the foothills, can you see the towers on a clear day or are they obstructed?

I bought my SS from Amazon, and it didn't work well for me because I live too far from the transmitters. You are so close that you may have to experiment a bit with placement to reduce multipath. You never know until you hook it up and try it.

Kevin

HDTVFanAtic

12-24-05, 03:06 AM

And the #1 sign that the skelton staff is in place for the holiday weekend (courtesy of Kei Clark at Digital Connection):

http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/56/kabcdt23dec20059al.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

benway

12-24-05, 09:08 PM

has anyone noticed that NBC 4-1 picture is showing digital code "stuff" [cant think of a better word...] at the top of some SD shows. like a thin band ticker tape.

it sometimes changes during the show too, from being visible to not depending on the source [live, tape etc]

I dont see this on any other channels.

I know I could stretch my display vertically to get rid of it but it has only appeared on NBC and is quite random

thanks

Jerry Berger

12-24-05, 10:09 PM

I too am annoyed by the ticker tape stuff at the top edge on NBC HD.. It doesn't show up on any other channels.

openwheelracing

12-24-05, 10:21 PM

It's been driving me nuts. I thought it was my setup. I tried different drivers and still see the "white stuff" on top of some NBC's SD shows.

kepper

12-25-05, 12:20 AM

That channel 4-1 problem has been occurring for a while, at least over the last two weeks. It is amazing to me how many technical glitches broadcasters in the second biggest market in the USA are having with digital tv. I don't know if they just don't care or if the equipment is so spectacularly complicated that they can't get it consistently right.

In the last two weeks I've seen the issues you mentioned with 4-1; 2-1 had audio problems for a few days; 50-1 had three days where the picture would pixelate in the center every 20 seconds or so; and 28-1 lost the audio for about a half hour one day. One of the posters above showed the screen shot of 7-1 taken last night with a blank screen. And this is just the stuff that I've seen as I try to set up and adjust a new HDTV set.

Most of the outlets are O&O by the networks and you'd think they would have quality control in place to fix this stuff as it happens. Oh well...

SD73

12-25-05, 12:44 AM

Glad you guys brought up the 4-1 stuff. It was driving me nuts. I thought it was just me...whew!

joe221

12-25-05, 11:57 AM

That should be the Vertical Blank Interrupt, it's where the CC and other info lives. It should not be visible! Way to go NBC!

joe221

12-25-05, 12:23 PM

Now the 5.1 sound on the ABC Basketball game (Det./SA) is going in and out! I called and got a voice mail. We'll see if anyone is there? Merry Christmas! :eek:

fuyuki

12-28-05, 07:12 PM

benway

12-28-05, 08:03 PM

gohd

12-28-05, 08:42 PM

The Silver Sensor just deliver to me today. i hook it up to my tv and i still don't get 7.1 or 2.1. the signal strength for 7.1 is around 40. other channel such as 5.1 and 11.1 increase their signal strength to 84. does anyone know which direction i should point to for 7.1 or 2.1?
Go to antennaweb.org, plug in your address, get the direction for your address, get a cheap compass & point in the recommended direction.

EvilEuro

12-28-05, 08:57 PM

Go to antennaweb.org, plug in your address, get the direction for your address, get a cheap compass & point in the recommended direction.

Yes... PLEASE get a compass!! It's the easiest way to make sure you get things lined up right. A quick trip to REI and ten bucks will do it for you.

One word of advice... set up your line of sight and directional markings BEFORE you have your antenna in place as the antenna will skew the compass more than a few degrees. My Silver Sensor used to knock the compass about 9 nine degrees.

I now use a Radio Shack VU-90 XR, an 80" antenna mounted on my roof and after making sure that I had a couple of guidelines to properly point the antenna, I don't receive a channel at lower than 81 (KTTV which still never flickers). That's from Fullerton and I definitely can't see Mt. Wilson as there are a few sets of rolling hills that block the view plus a nice row of 50 foot tall Eucalyptus trees in my neighbour's yard that get in the way as well. Still, everything works fine. This is a significant improvement ofer when I was using the Silver Sensor and KTTV was coming in at 68 and I had to move it to one of two places depending upon which channel I wanted to view.

So get a compass, go to antennaweb.org and get your compass orientation and then line things up from there. You'll be very surprised how much things improve.

HDTVFanAtic

12-29-05, 02:30 AM

does anyone have the contact info/email for NBC, for the picture issues?, please

by the way, I thought they were supposed to monitor all broadcast to air for quality control?

how can they miss this?

thanks

Anyone who watchs the main forum knows I have had it with NBC, so don't think I am defending them - but as for the vertical blanking and closed captioning - It's always been there - you just haven't seen it unless you underscan your monitor.

It's the way Closed Captioning works - always has. They had to put it somewhere.

NBC would just tell you to increase the overscan on your monitor.

HDTVFanAtic

12-29-05, 02:33 AM

Yes... PLEASE get a compass!! It's the easiest way to make sure you get things lined up right. A quick trip to REI and ten bucks will do it for you.

One word of advice... set up your line of sight and directional markings BEFORE you have your antenna in place as the antenna will skew the compass more than a few degrees. My Silver Sensor used to knock the compass about 9 nine degrees.

I now use a Radio Shack VU-90 XR, an 80" antenna mounted on my roof and after making sure that I had a couple of guidelines to properly point the antenna, I don't receive a channel at lower than 81 (KTTV which still never flickers). That's from Fullerton and I definitely can't see Mt. Wilson as there are a few sets of rolling hills that block the view plus a nice row of 50 foot tall Eucalyptus trees in my neighbour's yard that get in the way as well. Still, everything works fine. This is a significant improvement ofer when I was using the Silver Sensor and KTTV was coming in at 68 and I had to move it to one of two places depending upon which channel I wanted to view.

So get a compass, go to antennaweb.org and get your compass orientation and then line things up from there. You'll be very surprised how much things improve.

Actually, in LA, I am not sure I would go that route. Point the Antenna towards Mt. Wilson and if you still don't get it - remember that others have reported, they have better luck with some of the multipath bounce from downtown.

Just get a friend and rotate the antenna til you get the best signal.

A compass isn't the end all in the Southland.

gohd

12-29-05, 11:39 AM

Yes... PLEASE get a compass!! It's the easiest way to make sure you get things lined up right. A quick trip to REI and ten bucks will do it for you.

Or, Walmart as I did for $2. If you're really cheap, since it's usable in the packaging, you can even return it after your done.

mingus

12-30-05, 11:13 PM

I have a lip sync problem. using the LG LST-4200A receiver with my Pioneer 1014 receiver. Have tried both component video using the switching in the Pioneer and using the DVI out into the TV. Audio uses an optical cable-in to the receiver. I don't think my pioneer has an adjustment for this. Ideas on what to try next? A new receiver?

Using an Silver Sensor antenna since i'm 4 miles from from Mt. Wilson and get everything perfectly - except for the lip sync problem.

Yakman66

01-01-06, 02:58 AM

I'd like to thank everyone in this great thread. About a month ago I stumbled onto this thread after I started looking into OTA HDTV since I had recently purchased a 32" LCD TV. I've lived in the city of Orange (zip code 92869) for about the last 20 years and have been using cheap indoor "rabbit ears" antennas to watch TV. I've never had cable TV since I've been getting decent reception and I didn't think it was worth the money to pay for cable (I'm cheap!). Anyway, after reading all of the success stories on this thread I went ahead and bought one of the Radio Shack Accurian STBs from ebay for $90.

Antennaweb says that I'm about 34 miles away from the broadcast towers so I was fully prepared to buy an outdoor antenna because of what I've read in this thread. When my STB got in I hooked it up to my 15 year old indoor UHV/VHF antenna just to see if I could maybe pick up 1 or 2 channels. I was really surprised when I was able to pick up all the channels except 13 with strong 24-28dB SNR on each. After about 10 minutes of adjusting the angle of the loop part of the antenna I was able to tune in channel 13 and get everything. Obviously this put a huge smile on my face and I can say that I've been fully enjoying my HDTV experience for the past couple weeks.

So here's my problem: About 3 or 4 times in the last couple weeks I have lost channels 13 and 28 with low signal (once on 50 also) at the same time. I can usually fiddle with the antenna for a few minutes to get them both working again (with marginal signal on both), but one time (the time I lost 50 also) nothing I did would let me pick up any of the 3 without stuttering. The next day everything seemed to work fine again. The funny thing is that each time the signal would always go up a little on channel 13 and 28 again within 24 hours.

Here are some of my observations:

Today while fidgeting with the antenna again to get both 28 and 13 back I unscrewed the coax from the back of the antenna completely and found that I was able to pick up channel 28, 50, 4 and a couple others pefectly clearly with only the 6 feet of coax plugged into the back of my STB.
I find it hard to get both 28 and 13 working at times since they seem to require completly different orientations of the loop antenna. Right now I have it set so that channel 28 is marignal with 17-18dB SNR while eveyrthing else is 23dB or up.
If I adjust the antenna so that I get no signal at all (13-14dB SNR) on channel 28 I can put my hand very close to or touch the loop and the signal will jump way up to 26dB.

So what does everyone think of this? Is my weird channel 28/13 problem due to multipath? I live at the top of a hill with clear line of sight to Mt. Wilson. Is the silver sensor my answer? Do I need to go to an outdoor antenna and run coax through the whole house? I almost never watch channel 13 so it would be pretty simple to adjust to channel 28 and forget about 13 (they don't show anything in HD anyway) but the engineer in me is looking for a clever way to fix this.

openwheelracing

01-01-06, 05:50 AM

Silver Sensor wouldn't hurt. 20 bucks from Amazon and you might never use rabbit ears ever again. That's what I would try first since you have clear line of sight.

gohd

01-01-06, 10:25 AM

kepper

01-01-06, 01:19 PM

Is the silver sensor my answer? Do I need to go to an outdoor antenna and run coax through the whole house? I almost never watch channel 13 so it would be pretty simple to adjust to channel 28 and forget about 13 (they don't show anything in HD anyway) but the engineer in me is looking for a clever way to fix this.

I agree with the previous poster. Try the silver sensor before you go too much further, it may work. It sounds to me like you have some multipath and probably some very local signal reflections going on. I live in Newport Beach, and in my quest to get an OTA antenna up, I experimented with four different antennas, three indoor and one outdoor. All of the three indoor ones (including a silver sensor) worked quite as you described; I would get intermittent failure, and channels 11, 13, and 28 were usually my problems.

Once I mounted an outdoor antenna all of my problems have been fixed, and I get very soild reception on all of the Mt Wilson channels.

Kevin

mingus

01-01-06, 05:50 PM

Not a whole lot I think you can do. Not having lip sync delay was one of the issues I had w/ the 1014 while AVR shopping.

I guess I'll have to look for a new AVR then! thanks.

SD73

01-01-06, 06:02 PM

I had lip sync problems when watching OTA analog. When I went to OTA digital my problems disappeared.

openwheelracing

01-02-06, 02:50 PM

TonyW79SFV

01-02-06, 03:19 PM

Anyone else have poor reception on cbs, nbc and abc due to the rain/wind? I'd had near 100% reception since I bought my silver sensor. This is the first time I've had poor reception, and most likely due to the rain.

I was watching the CBS2 news at 11:15am and the signal went out; I checked other channels and channels 4, 5, and 9 were out too, or they were unreceivable; I still was able to get 7 and 11 (both carrying bowl games). The signal is good now an hour later, my guess is maybe there was a power outage on Mt. Wilson, though the SD broadcasts were still transmitting.

kepper

01-02-06, 04:04 PM

Anyone else have poor reception on cbs, nbc and abc due to the rain/wind? I'd had near 100% reception since I bought my silver sensor. This is the first time I've had poor reception, and most likely due to the rain.

I'm in Newport Beach and have an outdoor antenna; I didn't have any signal outages that I'm aware of, though I got a second or two of pixellation when the rain was coming down really hard, but nothing more than that. I was watching channel 5-1 and 2-1 most of the morning. I did lose power here five or six times for short periods but the tv and my HD Tivo are on a UPS so outside of the beeping from the UPS, I wasn't even aware of power outages.

Kevin

weverhat

01-02-06, 06:44 PM

Hi all. I'm new to this stuff. I just got my HDTV with built-in ATSC tuner 2 days ago. I'm in Redondo Beach and I hooked up the large ancient antenna on our roof which is probably 20 years old and unused in the last 10 years. There aren't any talls buildings or other obstructions around my house. I am getting all the local channels except CBS and NBC. The signal strength I am getting is as follows:

ABC - 76%
KCAL - 70%
CBS - 50%
KCET - 70%
KCOP - 58%
NBC - 40%
FOX - 72%

I've only scanned the last 5 pages of this thread, so I apolgize if the these questions have already been answered. My questions are:

1) Does my TV's ATSC tuner affect reception (ie do more expensive TVs have better ATSC tuners capable of better reception?), or is it strictly dependent on the antenna?

2) I have checked antennaweb, and all the stations in am interested in are 30 miles from my location and all are at either 25 or 26 degrees orientation. Wouldn't this indicate that if I am getting one of the stations, I should be getting all of them?

3) Additionally, when I hook up the antenna for analog reception, I get CBS and NBC clearly. If I am receiving their analog transmissions, shouldn't I also be receiving their digital transmissions?

4) Just eye-balling it, the roof-top antenna appears pointed in roughly the correct direction. Would it be worthwhile trying to adjust the antenna's direction? I would prefer to not have to climb up on the roof in the cold and wind and wet, but I really want to get CBS and NBC.

5) A related question. What sort of signal strengths should I be getting for the antenna I have and where I am located?

6) Is the... what is it called... (Silver Seeker?) a good option for me? Is it sold in any stores or is it only sold online?

Btw, the Rose Parade this morning in HD was awesome!

kepper

01-02-06, 07:58 PM

Let me try to answer your questions.

1) Does my TV's ATSC tuner affect reception (ie do more expensive TVs have better ATSC tuners capable of better reception?), or is it strictly dependent on the antenna?

ATSC tuners are always being improved, and I think they are currently up to generation four (or gen five) chip sets. Some have superior capabilities to deal with multipath interference (essentially reflected signals) and also have better capabilities to lock on to weaker signals. But after reading the rest of your message, I think your tuner may not the issue.

2) I have checked antennaweb, and all the stations in am interested in are 30 miles from my location and all are at either 25 or 26 degrees orientation. Wouldn't this indicate that if I am getting one of the stations, I should be getting all of them?

No. Each station has a specific antenna radiation pattern, and they all operate at different transmission power. Plus, some are located at a higher level than others. Also, the frequency difference between 5.1 (UHF channel 31) and 11.1 (UHF channel 65) is pretty large and the frequency propagation is different.

3) Additionally, when I hook up the antenna for analog reception, I get CBS and NBC clearly. If I am receiving their analog transmissions, shouldn't I also be receiving their digital transmissions?

No. Both analog channel 2 and 4 operate a much lower frequency than 2.1 and 4.1. (Analog channel 2 broadcasts at around 60 MHz; 2.1 broadcasts at 750 MHz). In Los Angeles, all of the digital channels are broadcasting on the UHF band. VHF antennas usually do a lousy job of getting VHF signals, and the converse is true for most UHF antennas, because of the frequency wavelength differences between the two bands.

4) Just eye-balling it, the roof-top antenna appears pointed in roughly the correct direction. Would it be worthwhile trying to adjust the antenna's direction? I would prefer to not have to climb up on the roof in the cold and wind and wet, but I really want to get CBS and NBC.

If you have a VHF antenna, then you might not see significant improvement because it just won't capture UHF signals well. but if the antenna is highly directional and is askew, it could help. Hard to tell without seeing it. KCBS-DT is actually broadcasting on UHF channel 60, and the higher the UHF channel, the more difficult to receive it on a antenna designed for VHF.

5) A related question. What sort of signal strengths should I be getting for the antenna I have and where I am located?

I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but... digital signals are all or nothing, so if you can consistently see a picture, you are getting adequate signal strength. I live in Newport Beach, have an outside antenna, and on my Tivo HD receiver I get signal strengths from 85-93 on the four networks, the two PBS channels, and on 9.1 and 13.1. I could also see most of those stations before I put up an outside antenna, and the strengths were in the 60-70's, but I would get fade sometimes.

6) Is the... what is it called... (Silver Seeker?) a good option for me? Is it sold in any stores or is it only sold online?

The Silver Sensor works well for some people, not so well for others. It is an indoor antenna. It is optimized for UHF. At 31 miles from the antenna farm, you may or may not get good reception. Mine was spotty. Its about $20, and I got mine from Amazon. (If you lived closer I'd tell you to stop by and test it out, mine is in a box in the closet.)

Of course, other things to check with your existing antenna would be the condition of the coax and coax connectors, over the years they may have deteriorated. However, you may be better off to get a replacement antenna designed for UHF. There are a lot of choices if you go that route.

Kevin

weverhat

01-02-06, 08:29 PM

kepper, thanks. Your reply is jogging my memory. I think I remember now. It's been like 10 years since I used that antenna... lol. On my really old TV set the VHF dial is for channels 2 through 13 and the UHF dial is for like channels 14 through 60, right? I think what I have connected right now to my TV is the VHF antenna - thats the reason I got all the analog channels when I hooked it up to an old TV. I am surprised I am receiving any of the digital channels at all! There are two cables coming from the rooftop antenna - one with a coaxial connection at the end and the other which consists of two sets of exposed spliced wires. If I remember correctly, I used to connect those spliced wires to two screws on the back of my old TV. The coax connector is what I connected to my TV. Maybe the other set of wires are the UHF? How do I hook them up to my TV? Just get a crimp co-axial connector?

weverhat

01-02-06, 08:36 PM

the antenna on my roof looks like this:

http://www.hometech.com/video/antennas.html#TE-TV38

Except it's ancient, as I said. Is it a combination VHF/UHF antenna, a VHF only antenna, or is it not possible to tell just by how it looks?

And is it likely that the other cable coming from the antenna is for the UHF connection, or could it simply be another VHF connection?

I guess if I can find that old TV (and it still works) I could test it out and find out.

gohd

01-02-06, 09:03 PM

That's a combo antenna. UHF section is the smaller "tail end" of the picture you showed.

weverhat

01-02-06, 09:12 PM

thanks. so then the two different cables should be one for VHF and one for UHF? I think that's the case. I actually found that old TV. It's a 9" black and white made in 1977. And when I plugged it in, it worked! lol. When I connected the coaxial connection to the VHF connector on the back I got the VHF channels and when I connected the spliced wires to the two screws on the back labeled UHF, I got UHF channels. So now my question is how do I connect those two spliced wires to the coaxial input labeled ATSC on my HDTV?

weverhat

01-02-06, 09:46 PM

well I'm not so sure now. There was a small adapter attached to the old TV set. It had two screws for attaching the spliced wires and a coaxial output. It was labeled "VHF 300 Ohm". So I attached to two spliced wires to it and then connected the coax to the ATSC tuner. The result is that I got NBC (although only at 52% and it kept breaking up) but I lost ABC. I switched back and forth between the two antenna cables several times and the results were consistent. With one I got ABC but not NBC and with the other I got NBC but not ABC. So there does appear to be a difference between the two, but it doesn't appear that one is VHF and the other UHF as I originally thought.

kepper

01-02-06, 10:36 PM

The flat thin wire is 300 ohm twinlead and the coax is probably RG59 75 ohm. Your TV needs a 75 ohm input. As someone else noted, the old antenna on your roof is a combo vhf-uhf.

Tomorrow you should check the antenna for alignment, use a compass... antennaweb has already calculated the local magnetic deviation, so if you read the compass directly it will be correct. Then you'll be sure that its ponted correctly. (I think the small end- the UHF end- needs to be pointed towards Mt Wilson with that style of antenna.)

There are either one or two connections on the antenna, one for vhf and one for uhf, though you might only have one. You need a 300 ohm to 75 ohm transformer if the connectors on the uhf side are 300 ohm, its the "adapter" you mentioned. They are available at Radio Shack for a couple of bucks if you need a new one. Run the signal from the antenna on your coax and try that on your tv. It might work.

Kevin

weverhat

01-03-06, 04:42 PM

ok... I went up on the roof today. I realized there are two antennas on the roof.

The first looks like this:
http://www.hometech.com/video/antennas.html#TE-TV38

It has the twin-lead 300 Ohm cable attached to it. It was off by about 6 degrees from what antennaweb said it should be. I adjusted it. The small end is pointed towards Mt. Wilson.

The second looks kind of like this:
http://www.hometech.com/video/antennas.html#TE-TV32

Except that the arms are x-shaped instead of horizonal bars. This antenna has the coaxial cable attached to it. I gather this is a UHF only antenna, like the TERK picture it looks like. I'm not sure why we have both a combo VHF/UHF antenna and a UHF only antenna on the roof.

I picked up the transformer from Radio Shack. It's got inputs for both the 300 Ohm twin lead and 75 Ohm coaxial, and it has a single 75 Ohm coax output, which I attached to my ATSC tuner. I tried the three combinations of inputs possible - just the UHF/VHF combo antenna, just the UHF only antenna, and and both the UHF/VHF combo and UHF only antennas.

With just the UHF antenna, I get all stations except NBC and CBS. If I connect the VHF/UHF combo antenna (either by itself or together with the UHF only antenna) I pick up NBC, but I lose ABC and KCET.

Does the UHF antenna also have to be pointed in the right direction? I guess so, since the TERK picture says it's a directional UHF antenna. I gather that the position it needs to be in is such that a line perpendicular to the vertical plane containing the arms of the antenna is pointed in the direction antennaweb says it should be?

Also, the arms of the UHF only antenna were all badly corroded. Do you think it needs to be replaced? The elements of the VHF/UHF combo antenna looked in pretty good shape.

Lastly, I also picked up a Silver Sensor. It was able to pick up all the stations, but not at the same time, and only in a position in the room which isn't very convenient. But as a last resort I could go with it.

joe221

01-03-06, 06:27 PM

Weverhat, where did you find the Siver Sensor locally? I've only seen it online like Amazon. Thanks.

openwheelracing

01-03-06, 06:48 PM

Fry's Electronics around 40 bucks after tax.

gohd

01-03-06, 07:11 PM

Does the UHF antenna also have to be pointed in the right direction? I guess so, since the TERK picture says it's a directional UHF antenna. I gather that the position it needs to be in is such that a line perpendicular to the vertical plane containing the arms of the antenna is pointed in the direction antennaweb says it should be?

Yes, needs pointing since it's directional as you mentioned. You might have something like a Channelmaster 4221 or similar antenna. Were they both on the same mast, one above the other?

benway

01-03-06, 08:50 PM

yes-- same issues with reception, however over the last year I have found it is related more to high winds for me.

when it rains, my reception generally improves-- lots of test days for that last year...

weverhat

01-03-06, 09:07 PM

joe221

01-03-06, 09:45 PM

Thanks for the Fry's heads up. If you can't wait for Amazon then it's convienient.

holl_ands

01-04-06, 03:39 AM

I reoriented the UHF only antenna. It was off by about 15 degrees. That seems to have done the trick. Now I get CBS solidly and the signal strength on the other channels improved also. NBC is still flaky though for some reason. I only get about 50% signal strength on it. I don't mind much not getting NBC though, so I'm happy now.

gohd - The two antennas are on seperate masts, about 25 feet apart. The UHF antenna looks like the Channelmaster 4221 except without the grid on back. It has the 4 "X" shaped elements:

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/cm4221.html

joe - I got the Silver Sensor at Fry's also.
1. Both of those antennas should be more than adequate with only 30 miles, completely line-of-sight.
The combination antenna would have the advantage of more gain for VHF stations (none of which are expected to be digital for a couple more years).
I can't think of any reason why the rear screen was removed on the CM4221 clone....it lowers the gain by 3 dB and lets in more backscatter multipath.
You're just going to have to try each one....I'm betting on the combo if it isn't too corroded.....or buy another CM-4221 or WG PR440 or Antennas Direct DB-4.

2. Twin-lead wire does not age well. Cracks in the plastic insulation let in moisture. And even new twin-lead suffers high attenuation when it's wet.
First order of business is to put in a new RG-6 coax cable and try it with EACH antenna, presuming one of the two lines isn't coax already.
BTW: Old coax can also be degraded if moisture leaks into the cable.

3. Antenna placement can be critical in being able to get the antenna out of a signal null.
Although it might not be easy to move the antenna back and forth looking for a sweet spot,
it might be possible to move one or the other antenna up and down on the mast. [WD-40 recommended on the bolts.]

Signal nulls may be different for different channels, as discussed in fol. re tweaking antenna location:
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/siting.html
It will help explain why the hit/miss list for one antenna may be different from the other.

4. KNBC-DT on CH36 may be inherently more difficult to receive due to adjacent channel interference from KMEX-DT on CH35 and high power analog KMEX on CH34.
If you look at the www.antennaweb.org results for your location (which includes station-on-station interference predictions),
you'll see that KNBC-DT, KMEX-DT, KCOP-DT, KCET-DT and KABC-DT are all RED status,
whereas most of the other digital stations are either GREEN or YELLOW.

picachux

01-06-06, 12:04 AM

Thanks for the Fry's heads up. If you can't wait for Amazon then it's convienient.

Which Fry's did you pick yours up at? How much?

joe221

01-06-06, 12:49 AM

Which Fry's did you pick yours up at? How much?

I got mine through Amazon last year. It's about $20. Frys was near $40, but you can get it now.

picachux

01-06-06, 04:46 AM

Thanks, I guess ill just order it from Amazon. :D

kelly7000

01-10-06, 10:46 PM

Anyone getting KTTV-HD Fox OTA?

It's at 0%-20% currently. Yesterday the programming was SD->HD conversion.

KenMacG

01-10-06, 10:47 PM

I have not checked recently, but when I bought my first Zenith Silver Sensor 2 years ago, they were available at both Sears and Circuit City. I got one at Circuit City. I also bought a second SS as an open box return at Best Buy at half price for a second upstairs tv. I know our local Best Buy no longer carries the SS, they are pushing the Terk stuff.

I am in east Ventura, 63 miles from Mt Wilson, and I get a strong 80-90% signal on all LA stations, no preamp. Both Silver Sensors are inside the house, downstairs one pointed out through an east window, upstairs one pointed at a stucco wall. A friend of mine in west Ventura, at about 70 miles away from Mt Wilson, mounted his Silver Sensor outside under the eve of his second story house roof, almost invisible unless you are looking for it. He used 3/4 inch pvc drain pipe and a few pvc connecting pieces to "mount" the antenna to his house. The SS is not corrosion or sun proof, but since it is tucked under the overhanging roof of his house, we figured it would last for a good many years before needing replacement.

wxman1969

01-10-06, 11:20 PM

Anyone getting KTTV-HD Fox OTA?

It's at 0%-20% currently. Yesterday the programming was SD->HD conversion.

I'm getting it, but it's SD. I also checked Directv's feed on channel 89 and it's SD there too.

joe221

01-11-06, 12:37 AM

Anyone getting KTTV-HD Fox OTA?

It's at 0%-20% currently. Yesterday the programming was SD->HD conversion.

I noticed House reruns on Monday were in SD with the Fox HD logo in the lower right in the pillar box.
What's up with that? :confused:

benway

01-12-06, 02:45 PM

sometimes Amazon is back ordered/out of stock on the Silver Sensor.

But you can buy the identical piece from Amazon as a Phillips brand, which is what I did, if I remember correctly.

PJO1966

01-12-06, 07:10 PM

luther1517

01-12-06, 09:46 PM

From 2.1 - 50.1 all the channels are having audio sync issues. They don't match the picture. THe over the air picture is great but the sound is of .25 of a second. The regulard channels are right on the money. Somebody told me it was the source or the stations. They referred me to the local are posts, but I have not been able to find anything. I have a Hitachi 51" hdtv and using a 57 element radio shack antenna.

thanks

TXP3064W

01-13-06, 12:50 AM

joe221

01-13-06, 02:06 AM

I was at the Anaheim Hills Fry's and they didnt have the "Silver Sensor". I got mine from Amazon as well, but the thing had poor build quality and I RMA'd it back, but what u xpect 4 around 20 bones.............

Poor build? It's plastic and metal and receives. Not much more to it. It's MiC what else could you want? :D

nikescream

01-13-06, 02:42 AM

Has anyone noticed green horizontal lines when watching WB 5-1 OTA? I watched Supernatural last night and they were quite frequent. It's just a quick flash on the screen accompanied by an audible "tick".
I had the same problem. Thought there was something wrong on my end...But then someone posted about the same problem on the WB in the Los Angeles - Charter thread. So I guess it's an issue with the station.

SD73

01-13-06, 10:22 AM

Yep, seen it last night too on Smallville.

HDTVFanAtic

01-14-06, 01:51 AM

lines or dots all over the screen?

nikescream

01-14-06, 03:37 AM

lines or dots all over the screen?
Random thin green lines hat flash across the screen frequently.

WeeJavaDude

01-14-06, 12:50 PM

Anyone getting KTTV-HD Fox OTA?

It's at 0%-20% currently. Yesterday the programming was SD->HD conversion.

I am also having trouble with FOX signal strength. I am getting a lot of artifacts on both of my sets. I have a Dish 811 and 921. Right now Fox is unwatchable. Since everything else is fine (Get all my regular OTAs), I have to assume Fox is doing something on the tower.

Anybody got any info as to what and when they will be done.

asarhan

01-14-06, 02:03 PM

I am also having trouble with FOX signal strength. I am getting a lot of artifacts on both of my sets. I have a Dish 811 and 921. Right now Fox is unwatchable. Since everything else is fine (Get all my regular OTAs), I have to assume Fox is doing something on the tower.

Anybody got any info as to what and when they will be done.

I am having the same problem with KTTV on my 2 Dish receivers. I hope they will have this fixed for the '24' season premier on Sunday.

sillysam

01-14-06, 06:46 PM

I'm also having severe pixelation and low signal strength with KTTV in LA. Strength of 60 to 65 on both my 811 and 942. Other digital OTA channels are 85 to 100. If it's a KTTV problem, I'd expect to see more reports. If it's not, then a few of us have developed antenna problems (quite a coincidence) that is only affecting KTTV.

kepper

01-14-06, 07:39 PM

Here in Newport Beach the signal level on channel 11-1 has dropped to about 70, its normally around 85-90. I haven't seen any pixelation.

Kevin

WeeJavaDude

01-14-06, 08:52 PM

I did have CBS go away for a while. Seems to be back.. Given all other channels are coming in, I am getting a feeling thay maybe KTTV dropped the power output perhaps..

hdtval21

01-14-06, 08:53 PM

I've got the same signal strength drop on FOX. I think it may have happened during the week sometime, maybe even last week. I usually get above 90%, now I'm getting no more than 70%. I started noticing some skipped frames during football. I just called them at the number that's in this thread and the guy said they're running at full strength but he would check to see if there was anything going on. Maybe wait a bit until later tonight and if things don't change, give them a call and mention you know that others have called as well and you're not trying to bother them but would like it fixed. Mention where you are as well so they know it's affecting people in different areas. I'm wondering if it's weather related, and maybe it will clear up as the wind and rain clears the sky a bit, who knows!

Hopefully it can get fixed before 24!

John Schneider

01-15-06, 11:36 AM

sillysam

01-15-06, 01:10 PM

Also having problems with Fox OTA 11.1-I live in the inland empire towards Idylwild. All the others are coming in OK. Hope they get it fixed quick. Can't imagine they'd let it go this long - what if it were their regular transmission? (SD)

Forget about it getting fixed. Just talked to an engineer at KTTV. They deny any problems. He's monitoring good signal output from their tower and good reception at his location (West Los Angeles) with an antenna at his location.

I mentioned that I could accept that it was an issue with my antenna if I was the only one, but I asked him how it can be that so many of us are observing the same low signal strength on only KTTV and he has no explanation.

What equipment are you using? So far, the reports from those who mentioned this problem have Dish STBs. Is it possible that there is something that changed in their signal that only affects Dish equipment?

This is very mysterious and seemingly without a solution. I've already scheduled someone to come out this week to check my antenna, but I have a feeling it will be a waste of money.

EvilEuro

01-15-06, 01:36 PM

I called as well and received the same response. I politely reminded him that KTTV has the late NFL game today and that he should know about it, as I didn't want him getting slammed with calls. I also told him that, as a comparison, I was pulling 100% from KCBS and KCAL, 90+ on KTLA, KNBC and KABC. As a matter of fact, KTTV is the ONLY channel that I'm having problems with... and I receive about 20 of them with 80+ strength.

He asked what I was using to receive signal and I said a 90" outdoor antenna from Orange County running through my Dish 942.

He said he'd take a look into things. I politely let him know that this has been reported on the AVS Forums and that the reports of signal problems are coming from all over Southern California. That seemed to get his attention.

Poor maintenance guy... maybe if we all call him he'll get the picture.

mkl05

01-15-06, 01:56 PM

Also getting very low signal strength from FOX here in the inland empire. 61-63% with no lock and I usually get high 60's and no problem locking onto signal. Maybe it's an issue with Dish stb's as I'm also using an 811. Hard to think that's the case but I'll try a direct connection and use the ATSC tuner in my tv for the later playoff game if it doesn't improve.

sillysam

01-15-06, 02:10 PM

Hard to think that's the case but I'll try a direct connection and use the ATSC tuner in my tv for the later playoff game if it doesn't improve.

If you do this, please report your results. I just can't imagine that this problem only affects Dish 811, 921, or 942 equipment. What we really need is a thread in the main HDTV Programming section asking if anyone in LA is able to receive a good KTTV OTA signal and what equipment they are using. But I fear such a thread will just get moved to the locals section. Problem with that is folks without problems won't come to the local section to report everything is OK.

mkl05

01-15-06, 02:37 PM

If you do this, please report your results. I just can't imagine that this problem only affects Dish 811, 921, or 942 equipment. What we really need is a thread in the main HDTV Programming section asking if anyone in LA is able to receive a good KTTV OTA signal and what equipment they are using. But I fear such a thread will just get moved to the locals section. Problem with that is folks without problems won't come to the local section to report everything is OK.

Ok, just did a direct connect into television and getting 67-73% locked signal from FOX. Pretty strange if you ask me, there was never this much difference in signal strength between the stb and television's tuner before. Don't know how to explain it, but if your television has a built in tuner i suggest you try it.

sillysam

01-15-06, 03:00 PM

Ok, just did a direct connect into television and getting 67-73% locked signal from FOX. Pretty strange if you ask me, there was never this much difference in signal strength between the stb and television's tuner before. Don't know how to explain it, but if your television has a built in tuner i suggest you try it.

Interesting. I took an already split OTA antenna signal and split the feed going into the 811. One split went back to the 811. The other went to another non Dish STB. No signal strength indicator on this box, but KTTV is coming in OK. On the 811, the split dropped the signal strength on all the channels, but all except KTTV are still coming in OK. The signal to the non Dish box must have also dropped, but KTTV is still locking.

So, it would indeed seem that the problem is with Dish STBs, at least with the 811 and 942. There haven't been any software updates recently so I wonder if something changed in KTTV's signal that is affecting only Dish STBs. Now how get Dish or KTTV to fix this is the question and I suspect a very difficult task.

cesman

01-15-06, 03:31 PM

sillysam

01-15-06, 03:36 PM

Well, I don't have a Dish STB and am having the same issue. I live in Fontana and just have an antenna on my porch. Fox was coming in great up until about 2 weeks ago. :confused: Guess, I'll have to record 24 in regular SD tonight.

Just found another board where someone is having the same problem with a Voom STB, so it isn't limited to just Dish STBs. Others, who have reported the problem, haven't indicated which STBs they are using.

So, this seems to be a problem that affects some brands of STBs, but not others. It may be something in the KTTV signal that recently changed that some ATSC tuners can handle and others can't.

hdtval21

01-15-06, 03:42 PM

I'm having this problem with a HDTV Wonder and Fusion2. No more than 70% on both. I even tried pointing the ATI silver sensor clone all around and it doesn't go above 66% with WatchHDTV. I've already unplugged/plugged the cables. I had a similar(don't really know if it was similar but had similar symptoms) problem with KCAL one time where I couldn't get above 70% as well. I moved the antenna around and nothing changed. Eventually after a few days, the "problem" went away, don't know how though.

It appears though there is something in common- all our signal strengths have dropped to 70% or lower, and we had above 80-90% before. Maybe they have done something with the signal that's affecting the tuners from pulling anything higher, even though they are going full strength. I think someone should post a thread in here and the programming section with the title like "anyone having problems with FOX in L.A." or "anyone getting FOX in LA". That may be the only way we can get people's attention. I think some people may have the same problem but aren't noticing it because they aren't seeing skipped frames so they don't know about it. I noticed skipped frames during football yesterday with the Fusion, not as bad with the HDTV Wonder though.

I would really like this to get "fixed" by tonight, because just a little more strength would help for 24...

joe221

01-15-06, 03:57 PM

I'm in West LA and I just lost 2.1 5.1 and 7.1 and any sub channels! Did Mt. Wilson just blow up? Adelphia lost all signal too. That's what made me check the OTA. :eek:

EvilEuro

01-15-06, 03:58 PM

It appears that way. I just lost them all too... and then they all came back up.

KTTV now at 75% though and locking.

hdtval21

01-15-06, 04:01 PM

I guess a thanks to KTTV. I lost some, but now FOX is back up in strength. ABC is still off, CBS was off and back now- missed the int. being reviewed though.

Thanks KTTV.

Now JACK's BACK!!! or FRANK!

mkl05

01-15-06, 04:02 PM

Wow how strange. I now get my normal 72-75% signal from FOX thru my Dish stb ever since that downtime. At least they fixed it in time for the next game.

EvilEuro

01-15-06, 04:05 PM

Something must have happened though... because now I can't get KABC at all. Signal is just dead. All other channels are just fine though. Talk about weird.

EvilEuro

01-15-06, 04:27 PM

Does anyone have the current, working maintenace number for ABC-7? The one listed earlier in this thread (310.863.7467) is giving an error message. For some reason it's the lone channel that I am not receiving right now.

Anyone else still missing ABC?

sillysam

01-15-06, 04:28 PM

Looks like the problem is somewhat fixed. My STBs are now locking with no breakup, but signal strength is only about 72%. So, despite KTTV's insistence that the problem isn't theirs, it would appear to indeed be a KTTV problem. Will it recur given the still low signal strength? We'll see.

RSF_LA

01-15-06, 04:48 PM

KABC-TV & KABC-DT OTA are still gone here. Looks like power problems on Mt. Wilson.

sillysam

01-15-06, 05:35 PM

No KABC (analog and digital) either. Dish's local KABC is OK, so KABC is putting out a signal (and Dish must be getting it by means other than OTA). Maybe whatever KTTV did to fix their problem knocked out KABC :D

OTA has really been a mess in LA this weekend.

bgooch

01-15-06, 08:30 PM

is this episode of poor reception due to atmospheric conditions? At daybreak about the only digital signal I could watch was PAX and right now the only digital stations I can watch are 4, 5 & 11. Although 11 was breaking up a bit during the NFL telecast.

PJO1966

01-15-06, 08:33 PM

I'm wondering if the problems were caused by the wind. I'm in the SFV and it's really been very windy all day.

cesman

01-16-06, 05:45 AM

Damn Fox... Good thing I hegded my bet are recorded 24 in both SD and HD. Perhaps this is their way of getting folks to switch to their HD programming sponsor. ;)

SD73

01-16-06, 05:45 PM

I'm guessing it was on Fox's end too. All my other stations were consistent on my OTA except for the drop of around 10 points on the scale for Fox (every other station is between 85 to 95). My Fox went from around 78 to about 68, then just in time for 24 things returned to normal. Interestingly, Fox has always been my lowest signal yet there is no reason its strength should be any different than any of the other channels from my location in Rancho Cucamonga.

Ennui

01-16-06, 09:52 PM

I watched the entire game on KTTV HD with no drop-outs.

Strength was around 80% most of the time (KCBS runs 100% ++ here).

Just checked now and it is down to 65-70%.

I have to shift my antenna 10 degrees to the north to maximize signal on KTTV, KNBC, KTLA, KVCR, i, KMEX, and KFTR from the rest (350 instead of 340).

Ennui

01-16-06, 10:23 PM

I did note that KCBS went off the air in the morning for about 5 minutes??

Also, early in the morning, I got KEYT from Santa Barbara at 95% for a while. Strange conditions; maybe ducting?

ersatz

01-17-06, 01:42 AM

Is KCET HD 28.1 having problems? I'm not getting any audio.

I've noticed the same thing. Anyone else not getting audio on this channel? The picture is great, but no audio at all.

unkosan

01-17-06, 05:18 AM

I've been browsing through these forums for a couple of days looking for information on antennas for getting OTA signals. It all seems to matter where people are, and what's in the way. So I figured I'd ask the people in this thread since they might be close to where I am.

I'm in a second story apartment in Hermosa beach, at PCH and 21st. According to antennaweb(dot)org, I'm about ~30 miles away from most of the stations broadcasting locations. I grabbed a Terk TV5 from fry's to try things out, and I'm not too impressed with the results. I get very intermittent reception on most of the HD channels. I'll be returning it. I'm considering getting the Zenith ZHDTV1, as that seems to have a lot of good reviews.

But before doing that, I was wondering if there's anyone in my area that has had success with any particular indoor antennas?

If I can't get decent reception, I might just have to call the adelphia man.

Thanks in advance,
Arash

ShuHorN

01-17-06, 10:49 AM

Regarding the audio problem on KCET HD 28.1, I emailed veiwer services and recieved the following reply on November 22, 2005:

Please know that our supervisor made contact with our Technical Operations
Department who was aware of the audio problem and they have made the
necessary repairs. We do apologize for the inconvenience you have
experienced.

If you need further assistance, please contact Viewer Services at (323)
953-5238 and press option #4 Monday through Friday between the hours of
9:00 am to 5:00 pm.

Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention.

Sincerely,

Janine Anderson
KCET Web Correspondent

I'm still not getting any audio as of 2006.

Codger

01-18-06, 11:16 AM

Although I was getting a 82 lock on the WB last night for Supernatural, there were repeated errors and sound dropouts. I also noticed this on NBC. I've never seen this before once I have a lock. CBS, ABC, FOX, KCET and everything else were fine. Are NBC and WB co-located on the same antenna on Mt. Wilson?

Did anyone else experience this?

StephenMSmith

01-18-06, 12:58 PM

OK, I'm a little late to the party here. I just got an OTA HDTV receiver a week ago... and ahhhhhhhh WTF???

Picture is great but the DD audio is screwed up to some degree or another on almost all the major networks (ie. all audio in L&R channels only). This is particularly distracting for me since my L&R speakers are bipolar = dialog that should be anchored to screen via center channel is being bounced around all the walls by my L&R speakers.

I searched forum and find the reason for this is local stations having trouble getting the 5.1/2.0 DD flag broadcast correctly for each program, ie. the 5.1 flag should only be on for those few programs that actually have w/5.1 channels, and 2.0 flag should always be on for everything else. eg, I notice:

KCBS, KNBC -- various shows erroneously flagged as 5.1 but have only 2.0 channels, eg. Leno, Letterman, Conan.

KABC, KTLA -- these channels appear to have the 5.1 flag just turned on all the time, round the clock. So sound is screwed up for everything all the time *except* for a few primetime shows that actually have 5.1 channels.

Are these just temporary glitches or are these station still struggling to get this DD flagging straightened out?

Thanks,
Steve