Originally posted by Tachy
2 quick questions.......

1) the first I asked earlier in this thread but it went unanswered....I assume that the answer is no...........the question is....are there discrete on/off codes for remotes for this box....anyone found any?


I have also posted this question on RemoteCentral but have not found anything solid as of yet. It looks like some people with a Pronto remote are getting something close. You can look here (http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/mboard/rc-discrete/thread.cgi?keywords=497&highlight=5100)

T.Wells

Originally posted by T.Wells
I have also posted this question on RemoteCentral but have not found anything solid as of yet. It looks like some people with a Pronto remote are getting something close. You can look here (http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/mboard/rc-discrete/thread.cgi?keywords=497&highlight=5100)

T.Wells

I have used the DCT 2000 codes and they work fine for the 5100. There are no separate on/off codes. Turn it on and then send the same code and it goes off. I have a Pronto remote.

T. Wells:

That is kind of funny. We must travel in the same circles, since I am Scott on that forum, and was one of the early responders to that very thread.

It seems that as usual, motorola has probably not included discrete on/off codes.

Thanks for the response.

Originally posted by Tachy
T. Wells:

That is kind of funny. We must travel in the same circles, since I am Scott on that forum, and was one of the early responders to that very thread.

It seems that as usual, motorola has probably not included discrete on/off codes.

Thanks for the response.
Thanks Tachy, that is indeed quite funny. Great minds must think alike!

Originally posted by wa3vez
I have used the DCT 2000 codes and they work fine for the 5100. There are no separate on/off codes. Turn it on and then send the same code and it goes off. I have a Pronto remote.
Thanks for the reply wa3vez. I have my Sony RM-AV3000 working for the 5100 just fine and now that SD material is sent out in 16:9 I have no need for the discrete code for display resolution but a discrete on/off would have been nice. It looks like it won't happen though.

Thanks again,
T.Wells

Originally posted by miatasm
I wouldn't expect Motorola to get into Picture Controls on the box. I think this is asking a little bit too much, considering I have yet to see even one DVD, Satellite STB, VCR, A/V receiver, ect. have these controls you are asking for. The manufactures of these products all probably feel too much can go wrong if the customers can control the same settings from 2 different units. It should be done by only one piece of equipment and that should always be the display, I personally wouldn't want it any other way.

While I haven't seen any STB's (either cable or satellite) with picture adjustment controls yet, there are in fact several DVD players that have brightness, contrast, color, tine, sharpness, etc. controls on them in addition to the ability to select black level as either 0 IRE or 7.5 IRE.

Originally posted by ianken
Fix it or give us the ability to fix it. One or the other. I don't care which one it is.

I completely agree and would think this to be a reasonable request/consideration. The solution may rest with AT&T/Comcast rather than strictly with Motorola however.

Originally posted by ClaudeD
miatasm,

If you're talking to the 5100 rep, I'm having the following problem (I believe only since the upgrade).

When I IR-blast from my ReplayTV to the 5100, there are circumstances where the channel change does not take place. I have since duplicated it with manual remote keystrokes.

Entering a 3-digit channel, it won't "take" the first time. The display will show the first two digits, then the third digit seems to immediately return the channel to whatever it had been tuned on. The next time I enter the channel, it invariably (over 20 trials, anyway) works. It's an irritation manually, but a killer when it makes me record the wrong channel.

I have gone into a "secret" menu on the ReplayTV, and fiddled with the delays on sending channels over the IR blaster. I've varied the delays from 0 to 1000 milliseconds with the same results.

There are instances where the channel change works correctly. I have not determined what, if any, consistent differences there are in the works-well state and the works-sucky state.

FWIW, channel up/down work perfectly, but that of course doesn't help me with the ReplayTV. I'm afraid that I'm going to have to record a bogus time-slice right before my desired show in order to transmit the channel twice -- that's worse than going back to a VCR for time-shifting.

Any help from Motorola or others is sincerely appreciated.

Claude

Claude

You need to fine tune the ReplayTV blaster settings. Use code 0476 (I think that's the correct one) then while on that screen, hit the Zones button on your Replay remote -- this will bring up the fine tuning menu. First go to the first option and enable fine tuning, then scroll down to the option where you can force the Replay to send a fixed number of digits, select three. Then exit. Now when you select a 1 or 2 digit channel, the Replay will add 00 or 0 respectively when sending the code.

Originally posted by Thomas1
GG2, I'm sure if you tried this already but I'll throw it out there anyways. Under Menu>setup> then Audio there is an option for compression. If I move it to heavy the audio gets louder which seems kinda back-wards. Does this make sense to anyone, if I am compressing the sound why would it get louder. I am under the impression that compressed music or sounds is just removing the inaudible frequencies. Maybe someone can explain it better.

In this context compression refers to dynamic range compression not shrinking down in size. IE it flattens out the differences between loud and soft (like the night time viewing mode on some receivers). Personally I would set the compression setting to NONE.

Originally posted by ukexpat
Claude

You need to fine tune the ReplayTV blaster settings. Use code 0476 (I think that's the correct one) then while on that screen, hit the Zones button on your Replay remote -- this will bring up the fine tuning menu. First go to the first option and enable fine tuning, then scroll down to the option where you can force the Replay to send a fixed number of digits, select three. Then exit. Now when you select a 1 or 2 digit channel, the Replay will add 00 or 0 respectively when sending the code.
Nigel,
Past my original post in this thread, you'll see that I found out about code 0476, but it's the thought that counts, so thank you. However, I have to differ on three-digit setting. My 5100 responds best to "natural" digit entry, i.e., no zero padding. YMMV. 0476 has made it work reliably for around a week or so.

My 5100 remote sometimes doesn't work, but my ReplayTV IR-blasting to the 5100 always does. Go figure :)

Claude

I don't think this has anything to do with the Replay or IRBlast ... I don't have one, and using either the supplied remote or my Sony A/V commander the 5100 often doesn't acept a 3 digit channel change on the first attempt.

Joe12south,

That's the weird thing. I was getting identical errors with my ReplayTV and the 5100 remote. Then I changed the IRblaster code, and it works, but my 5100 remote still has the bug where every other 3-digit code seems to screw up (though up/down work perfectly every time).

Maybe I should "train" the 5100 remote with the blaster? :) Sounds weird, but maybe it would work.

Moto/Comcast should do an experiment and try a few 5100s with their remotes -- entering 3-digit channels that are close numerically to each other. I find that usually trips it up every other time. OTOH, my interest now is mostly academic and for the sake of the community; I'm personally pretty much set.

While I haven't seen any STB's (either cable or satellite) with picture adjustment controls yet, there are in fact several DVD players that have brightness, contrast, color, tine, sharpness, etc. controls on them in addition to the ability to select black level as either 0 IRE or 7.5 IRE.

This is interesting - I have had both MyHD and HIPIX cards and they both had conveinient video controls; kind of amazed that the set top boxes don't offer this. This aspect, and couple it with the much enhance control I have with aspect ratio and resolution with these cards, are real disappointments to me with the 5100. Although I am getting a better aspect than before - I still can't letter box an HD show on my 4*3 set. It is just so much nicer to watch a Standard definition digital broadcast on 1440*1080i on the MyHD; with an ability to on the fly shift between zoom or normal.

As it is my set shows 480p semi-ok (maybe 90% of the screen area in 4*3 bypass) - but why can't it be right on? Plus I can't letterbox an HD show so I have to watch it "zoomed" or letterboxed on the svga output. Well like I said it is better than before, just far short of the quality of a good computer HDTV card

miatasm,

Terrific job you're doing for us "perfectionists" here (in an un-perfect world)!! Just incredible the amount of time and energy you're expending - amazing. Please don't get tired. We all count on you!!

Haven't been on this "board" lately - spent the last hour or so catching up from before Thankgiving posts.

One thing you mentioned after you're meeting w/the Motorola rep was the the 4:3 picture of HD channels. Won't this chop-off some side real estate of the picture (eliminating the top and bottom bars)? Or am I not understanding what you stated about the 4:3 HD picture? I, personally would rather have a 100% true picture with bars on my 4:3 TV than a "filled-in" 4:3 picture not as accurate.

Again, I/we am/are grateful for your dedication in getting all of my/our needs addressed. Keep up the great work!

Have a great holiday!!

Ken

Originally posted by KenU
miatasm,

Terrific job you're doing for us "perfectionists" here (in an un-perfect world)!! Just incredible the amount of time and energy you're expending - amazing. Please don't get tired. We all count on you!!

Haven't been on this "board" lately - spent the last hour or so catching up from before Thankgiving posts.

One thing you mentioned after you're meeting w/the Motorola rep was the the 4:3 picture of HD channels. Won't this chop-off some side real estate of the picture (eliminating the top and bottom bars)? Or am I not understanding what you stated about the 4:3 HD picture? I, personally would rather have a 100% true picture with bars on my 4:3 TV than a "filled-in" 4:3 picture not as accurate.

Again, I/we am/are grateful for your dedication in getting all of my/our needs addressed. Keep up the great work!

Have a great holiday!!

Ken

Happy Holidays, everyone! Hope everyone got the all the electronic goodies they wanted for X-mas.

You are all just lucky I have an HDTV otherwise you would be SOL :D :D. This is mostly because I won't fully make comments on things that I don't have direct knowledge of.

Most of the comments and problems that have been posted here on this board, I wouldn't have much cared about unless I could see it for myself.

I'm very happy I found this board. It helped me buy my dream TV at a great price. And it seems I have at least tried to give back to all of you by giving you hope for perfection of this equipment.

The rep at Motorola is communicating with me, regularly, but I have no info as of yet on the next upgrade, but he did say that it should be soon, I would say 1-2 week of January wouldn't be too far fetched. But don't mark my words.

KenU

The 4:3 situation is a pretty "grey" area. I was told they (Motorola) were working on having the ability to stretch 4:3 material (or that so-called 14:9 crap ABC & NBC put out during their non-true HD periods) to make it fit Widescreen TV's. This setting I am assuming will be a feature that could be turned on and off. So If you like the way it is now no need to change it. It seems this is more designed for the widescreen TV's and not the 4:3's. I guess they have seen the Majority of TV's that can be suseptible to Burn-in are Widescreen so this is what I think its being designed for. Again pure speculation on my part. But its the only thing I can see that makes sense, sorta?

The above thoughts are only envoked by what I have seen over the past 3 or so months in the field. This is sort of a rant not directly related to the 5100 in general, but there are a couple of funny stories in here so read on if you wish, but there is no good technical info in this rant and it is long so just skip over it if you aren't interested.

I have done about 75 or so 5100 installs/service calls. I've seen about 10 Gateway (Sampo) Plasma's, a bunch of Mitsubishi RPTV's, Some Pioneer, Hitachi, Sony RPTV's. Most (80% or so) of those owners had relativley no clue about plasmas, HDTV, component inpts/cables, burn-in, the difference between 4:3 & 16:9. Some of these were due to lack of the technician training/not caring when it was installed, but a majority of the first contacts were made by me. So can you imagine how I have to explain why the HD channels during the day don't fill the screen, why I they have to goto their "video input" to view all of there programming now and a different input to watch a VHS tape, ect. So in most cases I have to run down an entire "HDTV for dummies" book, for these people. I'm not one to bash people for not knowing everything about new technology, its the people who don't know and don't care to know that bother me. This is mostly because I work in an very affleunt area (read: alot of $$$ and nothing left to spend it on so why not buy a couple of Plasmas):

Enough of that rant, here's what I've seen:

After leaving an install I had done (brand new Mitsu RPTV), I got a call about 1/2 hr after I left saying I need to go back, because the customer is saying that the HD channels look the same as the non-HD channels and our HDTV service is crap(how would he know?). I go back to see the customer was using the analog RF input on his TV to watch the 5100's output. "See, look Channel 300 (HBOHD) & 301 (HBO analog) look the same" he says. I relized then my mistake, while making small talk with him about HDTV & Home Theater, I told him he should have his DVD player hooked up to a component input, rather than S-video. So he did, by removing the component cables from the 5100, and connecting them to his DVD player. Note to self: Don't hook up the 5100 using the RF output, anymore?


I'm at a service call (I had a tech in training with me) where a customer is raising major hell to our corporate offices about how we screwed up his entire Home theater setup. He was giving me a very hard time as soon as I walked in the door. This was partly due to the lack of knowledge of the original installer, but in any case...heres what I saw. The customer was complaining that up until we removed his old DCT2000 (for the 5100) everything worked perfectly, DVD, Cable, VHS, RF and Audio was working the way it should. After the 5100 went in he lost audio on his cable & DVD. This is were the original installers screwed up. I should first explain that the cust. had a Gateway Plasma mounted on his wall about 30ft or so away from his equipment which was in a closet, All audio was running through his receiver. He ran all of the cables from the closet to the TV himself.

When I got there the s-video came out of the 5100 and went INTO his DVD player, the DVD s-video out went to the receiver. then an S-video cable ran from the receiver to the TV. Optical audio out of the 5100 went into the receiver & the DVD did also. The customer said this was exactly how the tech left it. It turned out the receiver was set to the wrong input where the optical cable was plugged in. There were many other things obviously not down correctly by the original tech, but nonetheless, here is the insueing conversation after I got the Audio part straightened out:

Me: Audio is all fixed, but I can't seem to find your Component Cables, that run to your TV?

Cust: Component what?

Me: (relizing this guy has no idea what I just said) You need to have Cables that run from this box (5100) to your TV, in order for you to view HD programming? They are called component cables they come in sets of 3 usually Red, Green, & Blue.

Cust: No I don't, look channel 300 HBO in HD, I see it fine?

Me: Thats not truely HD, the box is downconverting the HD picture so it can display it on the analog outputs. (I completely lost him, after that comment)

Cust: So anyway, don't you supply these so called "component" cables?

Me: Yes, but we only have them in 6 foot lengths for standard installations were the equipment is close to the TV.

Cust: Well can't you give me 5 sets of those cables and just give me some "butt" connectors to put them together?

Me: I could give you 5 sets, but #1 - I don't have that many on my truck today and # 2 - we don't carry the "RCA style barrel" connectors you would need to do that anyway?

Cust: I don't care I'll just buy them at RS, you guys know how much money I spent on this TV? Money is not an issue!!

Me: In that case I would recommend having a set of cables made for your situation, I think you will be much happier with properly designed cables in that length.(I gave him a couple of links to get him started on the web) And explained they were probably going to cost him a good $100 (on the low end) for that length.

Cust: Wait a minute, I just paid over $100 on (2) 15ft Monster Cable S-video Cables that I butted together with a s-video -to- s-video connector to make my S-video run for my DVD player. The guy at Circuit City told me this was the best cable to use for my DVD player. Why can't I use that for HDTV?

Me: Well, S-video is designed for analog video transmission, and it is in most cases the best for anything that is, well, analog.(I went on & on about how component cables are designed for video transmission of HDTV & digital material, trying not to get too technical, you know, HDTV 4 dummies) Then I said, mistakingly, while your at it (buying 30ft component cables) you should buy another set for your DVD player.

Cust: (He loses it) Your telling me I need to spend another $200 or so on cables in order for me to get this stupid cable box to work!! You can take this box and your cable service and shove it! I'm going to satellite! My buddy has HD through Sat. and he doesn't need all of this special cables!! (imagine that last response with a bunch of F-bombs in there for good measure)

I took the box with me and left the job, and had the pleasure of going back 1 week later when he relized his mistakes. (But still didn't have the component cables run) BTW, He says he thinks the HDTV on the S-video cable looks good enough, for now.

Speaking of the Gateway Plasmas. I'm was pleasantly suprised at the amount of inputs on this thing. 2 component, DVI, 2 S-video/composite, and a stinkin' RF input (with tuner, obviously). I started getting that upset feeling in my stomach that I paid $500 more for my Panny, and I got much less (as far as hardware goes).....then I turned it on......This picture is very, very washed out. I'm assuming this can be cleaned up a little with some quick seat-of-the-pants calibration, but I was very unimpressed. I never knew what the big fuss was about the plasmas not having good blacks even after I bought my Panny, but I relized how good the Panny was after seeing the Gateway.

Sorry for that awfully long rant, but I just wanted to share some of the expierences I have had since Comcast & Gateway have made HDTV & Plasma TV mainstream. Damn it all!!!!!

:D :D

Originally posted by miatasm
I've had Digital cable for more than 5 years now, and I remember the first TV Guide was absolutle atroucious, but at the time it was the best thing I ever saw. Then they moved to the current format and......Its only a matter of time. Remember every request that is posted here is seen, I doesn't even matter if its HDTV related or not.

You do realize that EVERY other digital tv delivery system has a better guide? DirecTV, Echostar, heck even my 4DTV big dish reciever has a better guide. Replay and TiVO of course have the best.

Even the guide on Microsofts "XP Media Center" software has a better guide by a wide honkin margin.

The guide on these boxes is embarsingly bad. It fails to come up up the currennt channel. The screen real estate is gobbled by spam. I'm paying a monthly fee for this box in addition to the subscription for programming and I get SPAM?

To say it is "good enough" becuase the sheeple masses don't know any better is kinda apatehtic if you ask me. The cable MSOs are in an enviable position to leverage their badnwidth advantage over the DSS vendors. I would think they would want to provide a 1st calss service across the board : part of that service is a guide that doesn't suck.

Miatasm,

Please keep 'em (anecdotes) coming. Love it! We, the customers, need to chill a bit when things don't go the right way. Believe me, I am as guilty as anyone here (check my very first posts, about 14 pages ago) about complaining, ranting, etc.

I can tell you this, unless a servicer gives me sh!* first, I am gonna treat him/her with respect. Yeah, I might be frustrated, not happy - and maybe the person that was sent to me doesn't know his stuff, can't speak English too well, etc. What is telling these guys to "shove it", go f#&@ yourself!" going to do? Nothing, frankly.

We just need to keep posting issues here, if it's really true that Motorola and Comcast eyes are watching this board, and let the process get its act together.

I'm sure over time, this HD thing will be just awesome!

Oh, one more thing: WHY CAN'T I GET CHANNEL 190, THE PBS LOOP IN WEST ORANGE, NJ???:D :D

miatasm-- Thanks for staying with us.

Originally posted by ianken
You do realize that EVERY other digital tv delivery system has a better guide? DirecTV, Echostar, heck even my 4DTV big dish reciever has a better guide. Replay and TiVO of course have the best.

Even the guide on Microsofts "XP Media Center" software has a better guide by a wide honkin margin.

The guide on these boxes is embarsingly bad. It fails to come up up the currennt channel. The screen real estate is gobbled by spam. I'm paying a monthly fee for this box in addition to the subscription for programming and I get SPAM?

To say it is "good enough" becuase the sheeple masses don't know any better is kinda apatehtic if you ask me. The cable MSOs are in an enviable position to leverage their badnwidth advantage over the DSS vendors. I would think they would want to provide a 1st calss service across the board : part of that service is a guide that doesn't suck.

Yes I do relize the Guide stinks. But the fact that this guide/menu system was at one time worse, and they have made some improvements, lets you know that improvments can always be made. Advertising on these boxes does take up a ton of valuable space on the guide, less of this, coupled with higher color & resolutions would make this box aesthetically much more pleasing. I believe one of the reasons that the box uses 64 color, & very low resolutions is because with this format, anything more would have killed the speed of the DCT2000, the processor just can't handle the extra data even if its still low quality data.

Now that the 5100 has a much better, faster processor and the ability to output higher resolutions, I would say its time for a new Guide & Menu, at least for the 5100 anyway. Have you noticed how much better the Guide/Menu looks when you are viewing an HD channel? I'm sure its on the drawing board somewhere at Motorola but they are probably trying to get the "other" problems that WE are giving them fixed first. Personally, I would rather have CBS, HDnet, ESPNHD, CSNHD, DiscoveryHD, and more HD premiems than a new guide/menu system right now.

One question though, Has any of the Dish providers ever made any major changes to their Guide/Menu setup over the years?

Don't worry, you will be having all but CBS in the near future, namely mid-feb except for ESPN which starts up 4/6.

Originally posted by miatasm
Personally, I would rather have CBS, HDnet, ESPNHD, CSNHD, DiscoveryHD, and more HD premiems than a new guide/menu system right now.
[/B]

All day long!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hey, I love the menu/guide;)

We MUST have these channels, NOW!!

I WANT MY CBS-HDTV!!


does anybody have any more info about getting CBS except the one I've heard over and over and over again (we're in negotiations....).


I think we all want CBS!!!!!

Comcast Nashville has the local CBS affiliate in HD. Started watching CSI because of it.

Jwhip is right. CBS, I think will be one of those things where it just will "happen" with no formal indication. But ESPN HD & CSN HD are both slated for end of 1st qtr 03'. There is a rumors of another Sports HD channel being all packaged together with those 2. But I don't have any idea what it might be. Is there possibly a Discovery Sports channel out there?

Originally posted by joe12south
Comcast Nashville has the local CBS affiliate in HD. Started watching CSI because of it.

See I started watching CSI because it was the best show on TV. And then bought a SIR-t150 OTA decoder because of that.........

I always thought of CBS as the "Grandma Network" (Murder She Wrote, Touched By An Angel) but I started watching it when I got Comcast HD because Nashville's NBC affiliate is not broadcasting HD. Turns out that there are several show that I like, and now watch instead of NBC. Either I'm getting old, or I really like HD! ;-)

Originally posted by joe12south
I always thought of CBS as the "Grandma Network" (Murder She Wrote, Touched By An Angel) but I started watching it when I got Comcast HD because Nashville's NBC affiliate is not broadcasting HD. Turns out that there are several show that I like, and now watch instead of NBC. Either I'm getting old, or I really like HD! ;-)

You guys are the lucky ones getting CBS and not getting NBC. NBC doesn't have any HD material worth watching. ABC is a little better, mainly because of the Super Bowl this year. But CBS by far is the best. CSI (both), & AFC playoffs make it not even a close race. You guys are indeed very lucky.

I believe the first Comcast Sportnet game will be on 2/15. They are already doing some games in house at the FU Center in HD getting all the kinks out. It is very likely that Discovery HD will come on with CSN-HD and possibly HD Net. All three should be rolled out at the same time, of course, at a cost, not free. ESPN-HD is being carried by Comcast but does not start until the beginning of the baseball season. Look for an announcement on this in mid january. KYW-DT will not likely be on any time in the forseeable future.

JWhip- Is it your understanding that Comcast will begin to charge for ALL HD, or just the CSN and ESPN HD channels? Right now, HBO-HD comes as part of HBO. Have you heard of an additional fee for HBO-HD for HBO subscribres?

Originally posted by miatasm
. Personally, I would rather have CBS, HDnet, ESPNHD, CSNHD, DiscoveryHD, and more HD premiems than a new guide/menu system right now.

I'm with ya on that one. Though an updated guide would be nice but how often do we stare at the guide anyway? And ya can't have everything. But all those stations would be nice. :)

Sorry if this has already been asked and answered, but I want to know what I need to have on hand when my Comcast HDTV is installed. I don't have a cable box now (cable goes directly to VCR) since I use Directv for most viewing. I have a component cable run from my receiver to the TV (Xbox and DVD player run component into the receiver), and I have plenty of optical digital audio inputs on my receiver.

I'm guessing that I'll use the 5100 only for HD, since what I've read on this forum implies that the regular cable channels will look awful. Currently, there is a huge difference between my sat and cable picture (sat is much better), and with the 5100 it won't be any better.

I haven't called comcast yet to see about pricing. I think it will be confusing to them to ask for basic cable with all the HD features (no digital, etc.)

Also, does anyone know if Fox Sports programs (i.e. DEVILS GAMES) will be carried on Comcast HD? I know for a fact that they are using HD cameras at the games!


Thanks!

Originally posted by hma
Sorry if this has already been asked and answered, but I want to know what I need to have on hand when my Comcast HDTV is installed. I don't have a cable box now (cable goes directly to VCR) since I use Directv for most viewing. I have a component cable run from my receiver to the TV (Xbox and DVD player run component into the receiver), and I have plenty of optical digital audio inputs on my receiver.

I'm guessing that I'll use the 5100 only for HD, since what I've read on this forum implies that the regular cable channels will look awful. Currently, there is a huge difference between my sat and cable picture (sat is much better), and with the 5100 it won't be any better.

I haven't called comcast yet to see about pricing. I think it will be confusing to them to ask for basic cable with all the HD features (no digital, etc.)

Also, does anyone know if Fox Sports programs (i.e. DEVILS GAMES) will be carried on Comcast HD? I know for a fact that they are using HD cameras at the games!


Thanks!

You might want to have a set of decent component video cables on hand and either an optical or coax SPDIF cable for the digital audio.

The Devils games are not on Comcast. They are only available to certain parts of Long Island on Cablevision.

hma - keep an eye on Tuesday Feb. 18th: Devils at Flyers. According to Jwhip the scheduled premier for Sportsnet HD is the Saturday 2/15 Flyers v Hurricanes game, and the Devils are in town for the next game. In theory, if the roll out goes on schedule this game will be your best shot to see the Stevens faced pressed up against the glass in agony just before he crumples to the ice....in HD.

(Of course this is purely speculation based on what little information we have at this time, but the timing works. Positive thinking!)

From what I understand, the Comcast Sports Net HD games will only be available in the markets the games are normally available in. So, if you can get Comcast Sports Net of the Flyers homes games now, you should be set.

What do you mean, the channels 1-99 "still bite."

One worry I have in contemplating a plasma display is that, since most of my viewing is still going to be NTSC for some time to come, I'm going to make mince-meat of my typical viewing experience by converting to plasma and a Comcast HDTV cable box. Posts like this give me pause....

--PS

Originally posted by driver49
What do you mean, the channels 1-99 "still bite."

One worry I have in contemplating a plasma display is that, since most of my viewing is still going to be NTSC for some time to come, I'm going to make mince-meat of my typical viewing experience by converting to plasma and a Comcast HDTV cable box. Posts like this give me pause....

--PS
I think saying that they "bite" is probably over-stating it a bit. In any case, if you think that the 5100's analog tuner bites, you can still use the tuner of your choice (i.e., in the TV, in a VCR, etc.). I don't mind 1-99 through the 5100 (or tuned by my TV) much myself, but if I did, I'd use my trusty old JVC model ???? that has a few meg of memory devoted to getting rid of ghosts and other NTSC issues.

As far as converting to plasma, it's a free country. FWIW, IMHO, I think a Sony HS10 with a Firehawk screen can usually be fitted in most places where a plasma was going to go, with an incredibly better picture and quite a bit of $$$ saved. YMMV.

IMHO, denying yourself HD because of supposedly crummy 1-99 is putting the cart in front of the horse.

Claude

The 2/15 date is tentative. THere should be a formal announcement in mid January. Keep and eye out for the press release.

Guys,

I forgot to mention that I had heard from my Comcast person (1st week of HD rollout) that there might be a Tivo-type option available on the 5100 "sometime in the future".

Miatasm,

Any truth to this?..any conversation w/your Moto rep about this?

Thanks!

I have heard from my tech contact at Comcast in Pennsylvania that they have been testing a PVR enabled HD box for a while now. As soon as they open up public testing I am hoping to get my hands on one.

A PVR enabled HD box

PVR?

Originally posted by KenU
PVR?

Personal Video Recoder....essentially Tivo or Replay TV with the 5100.

Originally posted by KenU
Guys,

I forgot to mention that I had heard from my Comcast person (1st week of HD rollout) that there might be a Tivo-type option available on the 5100 "sometime in the future".

Miatasm,

Any truth to this?..any conversation w/your Moto rep about this?

Thanks!

Yes, there will be a PVR type system avail. to cable systems in the future....which cable systems will adopt it is up to them.

http://broadband.motorola.com/catalog/productdetail.asp?ProductID=178

http://broadband.motorola.com/catalog/product_documents/DCT5200.pdf

Personal Video Recorder - Cool!

Thanks Miatasm! So I guess this is "coming soon to a home near you/me" ???

Can't wait...

(I'm sure posts will be coming about how the guide/menu will have to be up to par w/the Tivos and Replays of the world, at least) All in good time, my boys!

In the meantime, More channels, please!!!

philadelphia comcast dct5100 does not work with tivo on my sony vw10ht projector.

unless i have it setup wrong....

the bad news:
i just upgraded to this box. none of the tivo menus appear over the video, for hd content (expected) or otherwise!! nothing. so nothing works. now playing, rewind, ff, nothing.
has anyone gotten this to work at all!!!?

the good news:
hdtv 1080i/720p signals are now simultaneously auto downconverted (to 480i i presume) and displayed thru the dct5100's composite outputs. so u can now use your tivo with downconverted hdtv content....as someone else mentioned here.

this stinks.

i think the problem is this...on the glossy handout for the dct5100 they give u, it says that both of the video inputs (yellow jacks)--- the ones on the front panel and on the back panel--- are "not enabled on this unit". it doesnt say that for both of the audio inputs (red/white). which makes for some crazy effects. like when i play something from NOW PLAYING, i hear the now playing show but continue to see the LIVE TV!!!

with the older cable box + hdd converter, everything was fine, except whenever u watched an hd channel, you'd lose all tivo screen overlays. which was fine cause u cant rewind or record hd anyway. but now i lose all functionality.

i wonder if theres a firmware update to allow those jacks to work.
how do i even know my rev?
steve

Had the Moto 5100 installed Tuesday in Montgomery County, MD. Are these both the newest versions:
S/W Version: 50.00-10.78
Firmware: 00

The problem with poor picture in the analog channels, is that something that could potentially be fixed through a software update or is it a problem of the box itself. Can the PVR feature be added through an update?

Thanks

Originally posted by jdavid
Had the Moto 5100 installed Tuesday in Montgomery County, MD. Are these both the newest versions:
S/W Version: 50.00-10.78
Firmware: 00

The problem with poor picture in the analog channels, is that something that could potentially be fixed through a software update or is it a problem of the box itself. Can the PVR feature be added through an update?

Thanks

No the PVR cannot be added through an update, unless of course they find a way to send a Hard Drive through an code download;)

And your Firmware hasn't been updated yet. Check earlier in this thread for the updated numbers pg 10 or so.

Originally posted by kindhacker
philadelphia comcast dct5100 does not work with tivo on my sony vw10ht projector.

unless i have it setup wrong....

the bad news:
i just upgraded to this box. none of the tivo menus appear over the video, for hd content (expected) or otherwise!! nothing. so nothing works. now playing, rewind, ff, nothing.
has anyone gotten this to work at all!!!?

the good news:
hdtv 1080i/720p signals are now simultaneously auto downconverted (to 480i i presume) and displayed thru the dct5100's composite outputs. so u can now use your tivo with downconverted hdtv content....as someone else mentioned here.

this stinks.

i think the problem is this...on the glossy handout for the dct5100 they give u, it says that both of the video inputs (yellow jacks)--- the ones on the front panel and on the back panel--- are "not enabled on this unit". it doesnt say that for both of the audio inputs (red/white). which makes for some crazy effects. like when i play something from NOW PLAYING, i hear the now playing show but continue to see the LIVE TV!!!

with the older cable box + hdd converter, everything was fine, except whenever u watched an hd channel, you'd lose all tivo screen overlays. which was fine cause u cant rewind or record hd anyway. but now i lose all functionality.

i wonder if theres a firmware update to allow those jacks to work.
how do i even know my rev?
steve

A firmware update can activate these jacks, but it is up to Comcast to tell Motorola to activate them.

Is it simply a matter of leaving the box on and eventually the firmware and software will automatically be updated?

From looking back at old posts, it seems that Firmware: 00 is the newest for Mont. County, MD, but my software version: 50.00-10.78 is out of date

Originally posted by kindhacker
philadelphia comcast dct5100 does not work with tivo on my sony vw10ht projector.

unless i have it setup wrong....

the bad news:
i just upgraded to this box. none of the tivo menus appear over the video, for hd content (expected) or otherwise!! nothing. so nothing works. now playing, rewind, ff, nothing.
has anyone gotten this to work at all!!!?

the good news:
hdtv 1080i/720p signals are now simultaneously auto downconverted (to 480i i presume) and displayed thru the dct5100's composite outputs. so u can now use your tivo with downconverted hdtv content....as someone else mentioned here.

this stinks.

i think the problem is this...on the glossy handout for the dct5100 they give u, it says that both of the video inputs (yellow jacks)--- the ones on the front panel and on the back panel--- are "not enabled on this unit". it doesnt say that for both of the audio inputs (red/white). which makes for some crazy effects. like when i play something from NOW PLAYING, i hear the now playing show but continue to see the LIVE TV!!!

with the older cable box + hdd converter, everything was fine, except whenever u watched an hd channel, you'd lose all tivo screen overlays. which was fine cause u cant rewind or record hd anyway. but now i lose all functionality.

i wonder if theres a firmware update to allow those jacks to work.
how do i even know my rev?
steve
You can probably forget about the input jacks being enabled anytime really soon (that's my guess; I have no affiliation with Comcast or Motorola or any direct knowledge). My guess is based on the notion that they will want to let the dust settle on the current capabilities before they get the customers all riled up with something else that doesn't work exactly like each particular customer's specific installation requirements :)

Since I never ran my Replay through a cable box, I haven't felt like I lost anything with the current capabilities. FWIW, HD content downconverted into ReplayTV looks really good, and the stereo audio is first rate (yeah, I know it's not 5.1 into the PVR, but good stereo is fine for most purposes, and you can always DPL2 it anyway).
Why are you using the composite outputs? I assume the Tivo will take an S-video input, yes?

Hang in there.

Claude

Originally posted by jdavid
Is it simply a matter of leaving the box on and eventually the firmware and software will automatically be updated?

From looking back at old posts, it seems that Firmware: 00 is the newest for Mont. County, MD, but my software version: 50.00-10.78 is out of date

If your area has already recieved the update then your box should have taken it as soon as it was connected to a live cable jack.....

I do not know if the firmware for the other cities was different from mine or anyone elses. But you can check the actual Firmware number by doing this:

Power 5100 off --> press "OK/Select" button --> arrow down to d09 "Code Modules" press "ok/select" --> Bootloader: 02.15 Firmware: 2.40 After Upgrade

I won't get into the Devils-Flyers rivalry here (can anyone say "Devils down 3-0 but still come back to eliminate the Flyers?), but if we can get Fox Sports NY on Comcast now, why not the HD feed of it too? Anyone know if this is one of the "future channels" being discussed?

On another topic, should I have my RPTV (pioneer elite 710) recalibrated after the HDTV install? I had it ISFed 1 year ago (at initial installation). If so, does anyone know a good technician in Central NJ? My dealer no longer does calibrations!

Thanks.

OK. thanks for the tips thus far.
still stinks.

Pressing Menu/OK while OFF does nothing. I dont know how to find out the firmware. and if i did, it still sounds useles tho...

"Why are you using the composite outputs? I assume the Tivo will take an S-video input, yes?

Hang in there.

Claude"


Yes it will. good question. and i dont know. i should prob switch for quality. but still, theses no svideo INPUT on the 5100, so this doesnt help me bypass the inactive composite 5100 jacks.

i cant believe no one on this board has every tried to use a tivo with the dct5100 from the PA region. i mean, the glossy brochures are pretty definative about it. no one else has received this glossy "Motorola DCT5100 Set-Up Guide"?

hate to go back to the 2 box setup...which costs $11/month extra to boot.
steve

Originally posted by kindhacker
i should prob switch for quality. but still, theses no svideo INPUT on the 5100, so this doesnt help me bypass the inactive composite 5100 jacks.
Maybe I missed something, but why would you need an INPUT from the Tivo to the 5100? Shouldn't you be hooking it up the opposite way, eg the S-video OUTPUT of the 5100 goes into the Tivo (so it can be recorded).

Originally posted by jimre
Maybe I missed something, but why would you need an INPUT from the Tivo to the 5100? Shouldn't you be hooking it up the opposite way, eg the S-video OUTPUT of the 5100 goes into the Tivo (so it can be recorded).

exactly. this gets to the heart of the problem. perhaps i am having a brain fart and am not understanding how to hook this up anymore.

how will the tivos signal get to my HDTV sonyy VW10HT projector? the only wires that go the projector are the 3 component ones. somehow, in the old 2 box scenario, the signal from the tivo got converted into component to feed the projector. wish i could see how i hooked it up. but the only thing that makes sense to me is to feed the composite tivo signal to the 5100 for conversion. i believe this used to work. and now i believe it doesnt simply b/c comcast has disabled all composite inputs for some crazy reason.

i wonder what would happen if i could plug in my box into someone elses cable system...whether it would get the upgrade. or not because they are individually addressable.

basically i am now left wondering if there is anyone in the city of philadelphia with comcast hdtv and tivo.

Originally posted by hma
I won't get into the Devils-Flyers rivalry here (can anyone say "Devils down 3-0 but still come back to eliminate the Flyers?), but if we can get Fox Sports NY on Comcast now, why not the HD feed of it too? Anyone know if this is one of the "future channels" being discussed?

On another topic, should I have my RPTV (pioneer elite 710) recalibrated after the HDTV install? I had it ISFed 1 year ago (at initial installation). If so, does anyone know a good technician in Central NJ? My dealer no longer does calibrations!

Thanks.

Does Fox Sports NY do HD now? If not, then it will be up to them to tape in HD before Comcast can even think about sending it out.

kindhacker,

I understand your dilemma now. I have a 10HT also, and when I routed the cables, I pulled extra ones. It cost money that might be down the drain, but I figured that 1 S-video and 10 video (i.e., enough for 2 RGBHV if I needed it; plenty for 2 component plus extras in case a cable "went bad") would cover me no matter what, and I didn't want to open the ceiling again.

Other than pulling a cable, I guess your options are going back to the old setup, or getting a S-video to component converter and a component switcher. On balance, depending on your installation, pulling more cables is your best bet. Even if you get composite to the 10HT on the same cable set as component, the 10HT really farts when you send 480i to an input it thinks is going to be HD, and you have to go to the setup menu each time you switch.

Claude

Originally posted by ClaudeD
or getting a S-video to component converter and a component switcher.
Claude [/B]
right, not too ideal tho cause it would mean having to switch the switcher to go from hd to regular...and back again.

Originally posted by ClaudeD
Even if you get composite to the 10HT on the same cable set as component, the 10HT really farts when you send 480i to an input it thinks is going to be HD, and you have to go to the setup menu each time you switch.
Claude [/B]
no!! that was just it. somehow, with the old setup, it just worked. i think u are right...it must have been 480i signal, but yet still an hdtv "component" style signal, so that it just switched from 1080i/720p to 480i seemlessly. theres was no going to the setup menu cause i never changed the signal to something radically different like RGBHV. i think i am starting to get clarity on this... i wasnt too sure maybe i had set something up wrong.

i really wonder if i could plug this into someone elses cable system temporarily and see if i got an upgrade that enables the jacks. i would fear that it would no longer work on my network tho...

kindhacker,

I have to guess that the old box upconverted the 480i to 480p (or better), or that you were watching HD at a lower resolution, or that our 10HTs are really different. Do you have your HD input on the 10HT set to DTV? Perhaps it thinks it's just plain component? Most likely, your old box upconverted to 480p.
Still, all in all, I think you're going to have to break down and run some more cable. Even if you fix all this on the 5100, the setup for these sources will undoubtedly be very different. Don't you also use a DVD player?

PS I don't think any of the upgrades enable the jacks.

Originally posted by ClaudeD
kindhacker,


PS I don't think any of the upgrades enable the jacks.

Not yet anyway.

Miatasm:

I have spoken to the cameramen at the Devils games in the meadowlands (I sit right behind them). They are taping on HD cameras, in 16:9 (but they keep their viewfinders in 4:3 mode since that's what people at home will see!). I can't say for sure what happens to the output of the cameras, but if they have HD cameras rolling, it would be nice to get that signal out to the fans at home, since the current PQ of Fox Sports on directv and on comcast is AWFUL!

-HMA

They are taping on HD cameras, in 16:9 (but they keep their viewfinders in 4:3 mode since that's what people at home will see!). I can't say for sure what happens to the output of the cameras, but if they have HD cameras rolling, it would be nice to get that signal out to the fans at home, since the current PQ of Fox Sports on directv and on comcast is AWFUL!

I was sort of commenting on this in the Montgomery county md local thread. Fox broadcasts the Redskins games in 480p widescreen on digital channel (34 or 36?) but COMCAST doesn't feed that channel locally as it is digital but not HD (as are no Fox stations as I understand). Well in my mind 480p widescreen is better than the 480i 4*3 we get on Channel 25 and it would be nice to add it to the digital lineup.

BTW - can someone explain the color coding on the channel numbers? For me the HD channels show in a light blue - but so does Fox 25 and a couple of other channels. Maybe this does signify that the channel is received digitally by COMCAST (However I also noticed that the Redskins game is not on wide-screen on COMCAST now; and I don't have my TV card working to check whether or not the OTA broadcast is in widescreen today. On occasions WTTG will show it 4*3 when our neighbors in Baltimore get it in 16*9.

Originally posted by kindhacker
exactly. this gets to the heart of the problem. perhaps i am having a brain fart and am not understanding how to hook this up anymore.


Here's how I do it with my ReplayTV. Excuse the caveman ASCII:

DCT5100 ->SVID->ReplayTV->Pioneer 49TX->Componet->TV
DCT5100->Componet----------------|

If you don't have a reciever the switches and converts everyihng to compoent you can replace the receiver in my diagram with a component video switch. Audio Authority makes a nice one.

My TV is a Pioneer Elite Pro520HD. The overscan is dialed in to just shy of 5%. All other video sources look fine on this set: NTSC from the internal tuner. NTSC from my big dish reciever. NTSC from the digital channels on cable. But, oddly, the analog channels from the DCT5100 are offset quite a bit to the left.

See attached image. DCT on the top. TV internal tuner on the bottom. On some shows text is actually lopped off the left hand side.

It'd be nice if (I know I'm dreaming here) : Motorola fixed this.

Here's the image. I hope.

Originally posted by ClaudeD
kindhacker,

I have to guess that the old box upconverted the 480i to 480p (or better), or that you were watching HD at a lower resolution, or that our 10HTs are really different. Do you have your HD input on the 10HT set to DTV? Perhaps it thinks it's just plain component? Most likely, your old box upconverted to 480p.
Still, all in all, I think you're going to have to break down and run some more cable. Even if you fix all this on the 5100, the setup for these sources will undoubtedly be very different. Don't you also use a DVD player?

PS I don't think any of the upgrades enable the jacks.


the 10ht is set to "DTV-YPBPR"--- any other setting--including "Component" doesnt work for HDTV..you will get no signal.

no dvd player right now...the other input is my PC, which is RGBHV, and when i want to watch a dvd it is a minor miracle getting it working--- involving setting that input to DTV-GBR and using powerstrip with a custom resolution and little 10ht voodoo doll i put pins in.

Originally posted by ianken
Here's how I do it with my ReplayTV. Excuse the caveman ASCII:

DCT5100 ->SVID->ReplayTV->Pioneer 49TX->Componet->TV
DCT5100->Componet----------------|

If you don't have a reciever the switches and converts everyihng to compoent you can replace the receiver in my diagram with a component video switch. Audio Authority makes a nice one.


youre saying your receiver converts on the fly b/w svideo and component?
i dont want to spend any more $$ but what AA does this too?

Originally posted by kindhacker
youre saying your receiver converts on the fly b/w svideo and component? i dont want to spend any more $$ but what AA does this too?

Yes, the Pioneer 49tx (and the Denon 580X, and others) convert composite and Y/C to component. The Pioneer does an awesome job of this and allows a single cable run to my TV.

I misspoke. The AA widget only switches component video. I guess you still need to transcode if you don't want more than one run to the projector.

http://www.audioauthority.com/aacconsumers/1154c.html

Ok I think I read too much in this thread because as soon as I think I have a clear idea about what's going on I get confused again.

I have Comcast coming out to my house Thursday, I live in Detroit and have a Pioneer SD-533HD5 16:9 RPTV. Assuming I get a unit with the latest updated firmware what can I expect? Will both my HD channels and analog/digital channels appear full screen over component video? No black bars and the channel guide will work?

I already expect to run some component video cables to one of my HD inputs with composite audio going to the correction audio inputs. I shouldn't need to run additional S-video correct? I currently have an old GE digital tuner (don't know model) and the analog stations aren't the greatest now.

Originally posted by LordMonarch
Ok I think I read too much in this thread because as soon as I think I have a clear idea about what's going on I get confused again.

I have Comcast coming out to my house Thursday, I live in Detroit and have a Pioneer SD-533HD5 16:9 RPTV. Assuming I get a unit with the latest updated firmware what can I expect? Will both my HD channels and analog/digital channels appear full screen over component video? No black bars and the channel guide will work?

I already expect to run some component video cables to one of my HD inputs with composite audio going to the correction audio inputs. I shouldn't need to run additional S-video correct? I currently have an old GE digital tuner (don't know model) and the analog stations aren't the greatest now.

Yes all of your thoughts are correct....except for when a Hi-def channel on the cable box is not broadcasting the program you are watching in true HD. then you will have bars on the sides, (ex. ABC-HD on a news broadcast)and there are some movies on HBO & SHO that are in HD but have the bars on the top & bottom, I assume this is because the format that they were filmed in originally?!!

At least in Philadelphia..........I have found that the picture on the analog channels 2-99 is significantly better using S-video cables, rather than the component cables. The digital channels, HBO, etc, are pretty good via component cables (and the HD channels obviously with the component cables). This does require input switching, but at least for now, the difference in picture quality makes it worthwhile most of the time. (I do hope they can fix this either with some sort of cable modification or firmware update.) The menus do show up nicely using both inputs, which is a huge improvement over the prior sidecar arrangement.

tachy--
youre in philly too??
can u try your composite (yellow) inputs on the 5100? any of them..front or back.. mine do not work at all.

Originally posted by kindhacker
tachy--
youre in philly too??
can u try your composite (yellow) inputs on the 5100? any of them..front or back.. mine do not work at all.

None of the inputs front or back are active as of yet on any philly region 5100's. Possibly with the next firmware, early 1st qrt 03'.

Originally posted by miatasm
Possibly with the next firmware, early 1st qrt 03'.

where did u hear this?

Originally posted by kindhacker
where did u hear this? He works for Comcast.

great. wow. ok. so there it is then. out of the horses mouth...

ok..well theres is one thing i did...i piped the output of the 5100 to my PCs AIW Card, and then run the TV app, such that with a boatload of effort, it is now possible to watch tv throught the 10HT set to computer mode. obviously this stinks and requires endless hassles...

i wonder why these jacks are unsupported now...i guess there was some bug in the 5100 that caused a greater greivance to other functionality when this enabled....?

Thanks for the replies! I'll go buy some extra cables today.

Originally posted by kindhacker
great. wow. ok. so there it is then. out of the horses mouth... For months now.


i wonder why these jacks are unsupported now...i guess there was some bug in the 5100 that caused a greater greivance to other functionality when this enabled....? No bug, just a poor choice somewhere in development.

Need Help.

I got a 5100 from Comcast for HD. I installed it myself and am not sure if I have everything hooked up correctly.

I've got a Sony 36XBR500 Direct Tube that has 2 component inputs. I wired cable from the wall into a silver box on the back of the 5100. I then ran the component cables that also has audio cables into one of the 2 component inputs. They supplied a generic looking Comcast remote. There are no instructions provided.

Everyone keeps talking about checking to see if output is 1080i, 720p, 480p, 480i, which version of firmware but I cannot find a menu that has these options to consider. The only menu I seem to have is the one about digital cable that doesn't list any of these options. Could someone help me out here. The setup button on the box brings up nothing. Did I get the wrong remote or something???

Also, I was told by Comcast that I didn't have to have digital cable just the box to get HD but when I hooked everything up I've got digital cable as well as HD HBO's and Showtime. I'm not a subscriber to either.

Thanks in advance for any help

Here is how to get to some of the menus...........as well as the choice for 480/1080 etc.

To check firmware/update version:

Main Menu <ok/select> --> Setup <ok/select> --> Cable Box <ok select> --> See Configuration <right arrow> --> S/W Ver: Upgraded 51.00-1132 / Not Upgraded 51.00-1096 think?) --> Firmware: "00" Upgraded / "04" Not Upgraded

More detailed Info is here:

Power 5100 off --> (immediately) press "OK/Select" button --> arrow down to d09 "Code Modules" press "ok/select" --> Bootloader: 02.15 Firmware: 2.40 After Upgrade


To setup:

When cable box is off, hit menu.


Also, I guess it depends on your cable company/area, but at least in the philadelphia area, to get HBO or Shotime-HD, you need to pay for HBO or Showtime premium channels, if not you get neither. ABC and NBC HD as well as PBS-HD are free. CBS is still under "negotiations", as they have been for the last year.

Originally posted by miatasm
...Me: Thats not truely HD, the box is downconverting the HD picture so it can display it on the analog outputs. (I completely lost him, after that comment)...

...Me: Well, S-video is designed for analog video transmission, and it is in most cases the best for anything that is, well, analog.(I went on & on about how component cables are designed for video transmission of HDTV & digital material, trying not to get too technical, you know, HDTV 4 dummies) Then I said, mistakingly, while your at it (buying 30ft component cables) you should buy another set for your DVD player...

Miatasm,

FYI...Component video is an analog signal, just like S-Video. The difference is that the color components are separated when using Component video for higher bandwidth than is capable from s-video. The luminance ("Y")signal is the same.

If you want to use a digital component signal you could use SDI (Serial Digital Interface) for standard 480i signals, like from your DVD player, or HD-SDI for component digital HD material. That is one reason why SDI mods to DVD players are so poular, you keep the signal in the digital domain while going from source to display/scaler. You avoid a digital to analog and then another analog to digital conversion which can degrade your signal quality.

YPbPr and RGBHV (both component formats BTW) are still and always will be the best connection option for analog video. S-Video is one step below YPbPr, then composite, then an RF modulated composite signal.

Hope it helps:)!!!

P.S. - Thanks for all your info in this thread, it's been VERY helpful!!!

Originally posted by DHarp193
YPbPr and RGBHV (both component formats BTW) are still and always will be the best connection option for analog video. S-Video is one step below YPbPr, then composite, then an RF modulated composite signal.

Which is why I had to chuckle when I went over to a friend's house after they had complained that their newly purchased HDTV and newly installed 5100 didn't look as good as they thought it would, and I discovered that everything out of the 5100 was going RF to channel 3, just like an installation of a decade or so ago :) It was a quick fix, and they're much happier now.

I understand component cables are analog as well, but at least in my situation, once getting the 5100, my analog channels look a bit fuzzy, but are clearer when I use the s-video input. I have seen mention of this as well by others, so I assume my hookup is not totally unique.

The tech just left. HDTV is awesome, the Pioneer 533 really shines. I had to go through and do the convergence for FULL mode in HD. After viewing some of the shows you have to wonder what the heck the delay is getting this out to the public. If computer development was so slow we'd still be using 486 processors instead of Pentium IV's.

My analog stations we really bad before, I see an improvement right now just using the component. I'll try the S-video though, I've seen numerous posts as well saying the same thing.

Give me more HDTV stations Comcast!

Originally posted by Tachy
I understand component cables are analog as well, but at least in my situation, once getting the 5100, my analog channels look a bit fuzzy, but are clearer when I use the s-video input. I have seen mention of this as well by others, so I assume my hookup is not totally unique. It may not have anything to do with the 5100. It's quite possible that your TV has a built-in scaler that works on S-video, but not Component/Progressive signals. So with S-video you see an "enhanced" picture, but with Component you may be seeing it "as is".

Some one earlier stated they didn't have manual for dct 5100- here is a link for a pdf file from a google search:
http://gicout60.gic.gi.com/customer_docs/user_guides/495012-001-a.pdf

Originally posted by jimre
It may not have anything to do with the 5100. It's quite possible that your TV has a built-in scaler that works on S-video, but not Component/Progressive signals. So with S-video you see an "enhanced" picture, but with Component you may be seeing it "as is".

My Pioneer Plasma looks considerably better on channels 1 to 99 using the component output instead of the S-video. When I use S-video the input signal is NTSC. With component (480i from the 5100) the TV converts it to 525p. So which output looks better often depends on the TV. I will be adding a signal processor card, in the near future, which will convert all inputs (S-video, composite, component etc.) to 1080i.

I tried the S-Video to my Panny 34xw50 and didn't notice any difference in PQ. Still really bad on the analog, and even the digital channel below 170 are pretty awful too, particularly when the image is darker. I noticed the problem on those digitals back with the side car too, though.

Has anyone successfully used the IR port (minijack) on the back of the 5100?

I was excited to see it, but could not get it to work with a standard Xantech IR repeater no matter what cable I used (cables that worked with other devices with an IR contol jack.)

I ended up sticking an emitter on the front (it's to the far left, BTW.)

How do I get the menus to show up? I'm connected via RCA cables at the moment. Is this a problem?

Thanks.

Blizzardo,

It might be that the current output format of the 5100 does not match your TV. You can still work through the menu using the 5100's LED interface. With the 5100 "OFF". Hit the MENU button. The LED's should display the current output format of the 5100, example, "16x9". You can use the < or > cursor buttons, on the front of the 5100, to change this.
Next, use the Up or Down cursors to select the next item, the Output Type, example, 1080i, 720P, 480i or 480P. NOTE, when using the LED's of the 5100 for this, the when you will see "YPP" displayed when first doing this step, this means that you are selecting the Output Type for the component outputs. When you see this, use the < or > cursor buttons to select the correct output type for your TV. You should then see the MENU on your TV display (provided your TV is hooked up and ON) when the Output Type of the 5100 matched the input type of your TV.

TO exit, just select MENU again. Turn on the 5100 and you are on your way.
Hope this helps.

Originally posted by joe12south
Has anyone successfully used the IR port (minijack) on the back of the 5100?

I was excited to see it, but could not get it to work with a standard Xantech IR repeater no matter what cable I used (cables that worked with other devices with an IR contol jack.)

I ended up sticking an emitter on the front (it's to the far left, BTW.)

Nope!

Are you sure that IR jack is for ir input? It may be for ir output...

Miatasm,
Do you know if the port is supposed to be active?

Ron,
I have no idea if it's in or out. I hadn't even thought of out, but I guess that might be usefull for Tivo, etc. I don't think the manual says anything about it, if I recall.

Anyhow, the flasher works just fine ... but it's just cooler to use a jack. ;-)

I was trying to do the D 09 trick to see my firmware. I couldn't get anything to display. Suddenly the unit rebooted. And now I can't seem to get to the D 01 menu via the "Select" button.

Thanks for the menu tricks.

blizzardo,

Try the hard reset trick, unplug the 5100 from AC power, the power cord can be removed from the back of the unit. Wait about 8 seconds and plug it back in. The 5100 will then ping back to the cable head end and request that its memory be reloaded. This may take about 15 minutes. Anyway, after the hard reset, turn the unit off, then hit the buttons again.

In the philly area you can also see the firmware by using the onscreen display, go to menu, then Main Menu, then Setup, then Cable Box, and then See Configuration.
Hope this helps.

Originally posted by joe12south
Miatasm,
Do you know if the port is supposed to be active?

Ron,
I have no idea if it's in or out. I hadn't even thought of out, but I guess that might be usefull for Tivo, etc. I don't think the manual says anything about it, if I recall.

Anyhow, the flasher works just fine ... but it's just cooler to use a jack. ;-)

No it is not, my thoughts are that every firmware change that is made to these boxes could conflict with other aspects of the box. Every box that is made has essentially the same backbone but is customized for each cable system that they are installed, so each and every upgrade could potentially conflict with current settings on the box. I think the IR blaster isn't really a primary concern for Comcast right now. Comcast & Motorola are trying to get the Video, specifically the Analog PQ, & Audio problems solved before worrying about the "extra features" that this box has to offer.

Hang tight, it will all be OK soon.....

...that while they throw everything and then some into them it is up to the cable guys to use it.

Note that Comcast uses the TVGuide/Gemstar software on these machines. Something tells me that enabling the cool on board widgets is not a priority with them as mucha s say, getting you to clikc on some spam and get a new Amex credit card. :-)

The box I got is bare bones. No 1394, no DVI. Just the absolute minimal DCT5100 config available.

Originally posted by donjulio
In the philly area you can also see the firmware by using the onscreen display, go to menu, then Main Menu, then Setup, then Cable Box, and then See Configuration.
Hope this helps. Unfortunately I can't see any onscreen displays. I'm using s-vid and rca cables, is this why?

D 09 just blinks. The "Select" button doesn't seem to do anything. I'll try the hard reset. Thanks.

So I've had some time to really play with this thing over the holidays and make some observations against my other broadcast video source widgets.

Item 1- On my cable service the digital content seems to be setup for a black level at 0IRE while the analog content is 7.5 IRE. This means that if you use ONE input on your display for all sources getting things dialed in for 480i has to be a compromise. Dial in for 7.5 IRE blacks and the digital 480i stuff will lack shadow detail. Calibrate for 0IRE the digital 480i stuff will look great but the analog stuff will look a bit wahed out. So you have to set it somewhere in the middle. No biggie.

Suggestion to Comcast and Motorola: put a service menu item in there to adjust the black levels for analog 480i, digital 480i and digital HD akin to what decent DVD players provide. The box should remember separate settings for each. This shoulld also please users who think the HD content looks too dark.

Item 2- As noted in a previous post analog 480i content is shifted too far to the left.

Suggestion to Comcast and Motorola: Fix it. Or provide a method for shifting around the video as well as the on screen graphics.

Item 2b- No way to adjust the position of VIDEO on the output. My pioneer Pro520 does not display HD vertically centered. It is so far off that even via the service menus you cannot attain great geometry. The old HDD-200 side car allowed me to adjust the position of the output HD video to compentsate for this.

Suggestion to Comcast and Motorola: Add this featuer to the user menus. Have separate video position memories for HD, analog SD and digital SD.

Item 3- Faint vertical lines sceen in dark scenes only on analog video. Not on Digital (HD or SD). Not an issues with my cable, does not show up on ReplayTV tuner, TV internal tuner or VCR tuner. Only on the DCT5100 tuner. There are about five of these lines (didn't count) evenly spaced across the display. Ther are perfectly vertical.

Suggestion to Comcast and Motorola: Can this be fixed? Has any one seen this?

Finally (I think) I belive I see a bit of red push on the HD stuff. Was watching "Charlies Angles" last night on HBO and it didn't look quite right. Looked OK on the SD side of things.

I too noticed that HD movies wider than 16:9 are not necessarily vertically centered. At first I thought my projector had dropped, and then I assumed this was stemming from Showtime or whomever was the source.

Surely this isn't caused by the 5100, is it?

I am new to the site. I recently had the 5100 box installed. I am trying to figure out if I have it set up correctly. Other than PBS, I haven't seen a HD picture on any of the other HD stations. I have a Hitachi 43" projection tv. I have it set to 1080i. I checked the firmware on the box and it is 2.40. Any help would be appreciated.

>Other than PBS, I haven't seen a HD picture on any of the other HD stations.

What area of the country are you in Maximus? Assuming the obvious, you do tune in the proper HD channels for ABC and NBC? Since you say you can view PBS in HD, it is hard to comprehend why the other channels are not viewed to me.

Howard

I'm in Detroit. For example, last night the show Alias was on and it said that it was being broadcast in HD. When I went to the ABC HD channel, there was some improvement in picture but not what I would expect of HD. Maybe I'm wrong.

Originally posted by ClaudeD
Which is why I had to chuckle when I went over to a friend's house after they had complained that their newly purchased HDTV and newly installed 5100 didn't look as good as they thought it would, and I discovered that everything out of the 5100 was going RF to channel 3, just like an installation of a decade or so ago :) It was a quick fix, and they're much happier now.


Claude,

Could you please explain the quick fix. Thank you

maximus22,

The only way to see a HD signal from the 5100 is through the component video output. Using the RF connection (normal coax cable) just downconverts to normal composite video (worse actually) totally negating having a HDTV.

I removed the RF cable out of the 5100 and in to the TV, and substituted component connnections at 1080i between the 5100 and TV. Had my friend's TV set to video input (rather than tuning in channel 3).

Is there any benefit to getting Monster component cables for the 5100? Will it help to improve picture quality over and above the component cables that were supplied by the cable company??

No, any decent, shielded component cable will be just fine. There is nothing magical about Monster cables. Use the supplied cables, if you don't see any noise you're in business. If you are getting noise in the signal, purchase some decent cables, but don't get robbed by Monster.

The included component cable that comes with most progressive DVD players is pretty bad (cheap connectors, no shielding, etc.). I'm assuming that it is probably the same for the cable box. Under 6 feet in length, the Radio Shack Pro Gold cables are your best bet for a good price on a good cable. If you need over 12 feet in length, then you should perhaps look at more expensive cables (i.e Bettercables.com). But, to agree with Joe, don't feed the monster.

thanks joe12 and greggz

Originally posted by ianken
The guide software on this is the awful, nasty abortion known as Gemstar TVGudie. The Guide data provided by AT&T has robust information in it but the presentation is awful, with more screen real estate dedicated to SPAM than to guide data.


As I understand it Ianken, the guide is Comcast's fault, and not Motorola's. Up here we have Shaw cable, and the same box carries the Prevue guide. Along those lines...

I'll throw in a complaint for the Prevue guide that Shaw cable has. I have not seen the Gemstar guide, but I don't know how it could be worse than Prevue. Prevue allows for viewing of 6 channels at the current half-hour on a single screen. The rest is just blank screen and ads.

Of course, DirecTv provides a program description, a PIP screen of the current channel you're watching, 8 (or so) channels, displayed for a 2-hour time period. This is how a guide should be done. I don't know what morons are making these other ridiculously aweful guides, and why the cable companies are using them.

blizzardo,

I think that you are on to something. If you are using the s-video this could be the problem, the 5100 is probably setup to output 1080i via the component outputs and the 4:3 override is set such that you can see graphics via the component or s-video outputs. This can be easily changed. With the 5100 OFF, hit the MENU button, look at the LED display on the 5100 the first selection using the left and right cursor buttons will allow you to select TV TYPE (16x9 or 4:3). Once you select to your TV TYPE, then use the DOWN CURSOR, this next selection you can decide what OUTPUT FORMAT comes from the 5100, since you are using s-video, use the LEFT/RIGHT CURSOR buttons to select 480i. When you do this, you should see the display on your TV screen. Now, hit MENU button again, and then TURN ON the 5100. You should be able to see your on-screen guide, etc. The guide make take a while to update from the head end.
Hope this helps.

Originally posted by joe12south
I too noticed that HD movies wider than 16:9 are not necessarily vertically centered. ...
Surely this isn't caused by the 5100, is it?

No, this is an issue with my display. The output from my Sony HD DirecTV box had the same problem while it looked fine on other displays.

But my display has never shown this issue with any DVD or OTA HD broadcast. I've only noticed it on the 5100 viewing Showtime or HBO (which ever one doesn't crop down to 16:9.) The letterboxed 2.35:1, or 1.89:1 or whatever, sits lower than center.

A SIMPLE question: What is the height of the 5100 (inches,not cm's)?

I've looked everywhere...even the .pdf version of the user guide doesn't give this basic piece of info and the Comcast sales rep didn't have it either. I'm having one installed in a few weeks and I'm really short of space in in my TV stand...thanks!

John

This has probably been covered already in this thread........

But when watching the upregulated non-HD on an HD channel, I have found that the picture is cropped in such a way that a significant portion of the top is cut off. When watching the football playoffs on ABC, 3/4 of the clock on the on screen scoreboard at the top was cut off. If I change the SAME HD channel to S-video input from the component input, the picture is still pretty clear, but is letterboxed on top and sides, and has no apparent cropping.

It is on this HD channel, using the S-video input that I cannot see any menus (but if I turn to a NON-hd channel, or use the component inputs on the HD channel I can see menus (do I have you all confused yet?)......

Is there a way to get menus on the HD channel using svideo input (obviously not viewing HD/component video input)?

Tachy,

Yes, select the 4:3 override to 480i or 480p as is your case, this will allow the graphics to be displayed on s-video or composite.

I have it set to 480I already, and do get the menus on all the channels on s video and component, but NOT when I have chosen on of the 4 high definition channels and use the s video input.

Originally posted by jrcjpc
A SIMPLE question: What is the height of the 5100 (inches,not cm's)?

I've looked everywhere...even the .pdf version of the user guide doesn't give this basic piece of info and the Comcast sales rep didn't have it either. I'm having one installed in a few weeks and I'm really short of space in in my TV stand...thanks!

John

The actual height from shelve to top of unit is 2.75 inches. Thats including the rubber feet, without the rubber feet its 2.25 inches.

Originally posted by Tachy
This has probably been covered already in this thread........

But when watching the upregulated non-HD on an HD channel, I have found that the picture is cropped in such a way that a significant portion of the top is cut off. When watching the football playoffs on ABC, 3/4 of the clock on the on screen scoreboard at the top was cut off. If I change the SAME HD channel to S-video input from the component input, the picture is still pretty clear, but is letterboxed on top and sides, and has no apparent cropping.

It is on this HD channel, using the S-video input that I cannot see any menus (but if I turn to a NON-hd channel, or use the component inputs on the HD channel I can see menus (do I have you all confused yet?)......

Is there a way to get menus on the HD channel using svideo input (obviously not viewing HD/component video input)?

To answer your last question directly, No. The no on screen displays on the HD channels when viewed through an analog output, was the easiest way for Motorola to fix the majority of the original problems with the 5100, I believe Motorola felt that the extra time it would take for them to develop the firmware that enabled this such feature was pointless, since watching an HD channel through an analog output just defeated the purpose of this box, anyway.

About the cropping of the picture....Is it possible that your TV's picture format setting maybe set to zoom or some other enhanced stretch mode ?(that is if your TV is a widescreen) I know when I select the "just" mode on my Panasonic plasma it has a tendency to crop some of the picture. But if I select "normal" it is not cropped.

I have a pioneer HD-610, and it locks in FULL mode when viewing HD or upregulated non-HD on an HD channel, so you cannot vary the screen at all. When viewing Non-HD on a Non-HD channel, I do have the ability to choose normal, natural wide, full or zoom, but as I just stated, without going into the maintenance setup screen for the tv, there does not seem any easy way to vary it. The widescreen HD stuff does not seem cropped, so I thought it might be the way the station upregulates non-hd stuff, and stretches and crops it a bit in processing........

Thanks for the info.

Due to experiences with other cable boxes I usually just use my 5100 for HDTV. For NTSC I just use my Tivo, connected through svideo on DScaler.

But tonight I was watching a movie on the 5100 on the Sundance channel (NTSC, digital) and decided to connect it to DScaler, using the composite connection. The picture was actually quite a bit better than I would have expected from a non-HDTV 5100 channel, especially when only through composite.

See attached.

- Tom

joe did you recieve your upgrade yet if so how

Which upgrade? My firmware is version 50.00

Originally posted by Tachy
I have a pioneer HD-610, and it locks in FULL mode when viewing HD or upregulated non-HD on an HD channel, so you cannot vary the screen at all. When viewing Non-HD on a Non-HD channel, I do have the ability to choose normal, natural wide, full or zoom, but as I just stated, without going into the maintenance setup screen for the tv, there does not seem any easy way to vary it. The widescreen HD stuff does not seem cropped, so I thought it might be the way the station upregulates non-hd stuff, and stretches and crops it a bit in processing........

Thanks for the info.

My bad...I misread your statement I thought you meant when watching a non-hd channel. I haven't noticed it on my TV. Its interesting though....

When I go to an HD station (ABC, NBC) I have to change the aspect in order for it fill my screen. My screen is 4:3. Is there a setting I can change that will do this automatically??

Why is there a 480i/480p option on the override mode? Wouldn't an HDTV owner always want to set it to 480p mode? Or, are their HDTVs out there that can't do 480p? If so how common are non-480p HDTVs?

Thanks

Originally posted by tommba
Why is there a 480i/480p option on the override mode? Wouldn't an HDTV owner always want to set it to 480p mode? Or, are their HDTVs out there that can't do 480p? If so how common are non-480p HDTVs?

Thanks
Tommba,

Some HDTVs lock on full with even a 480p signal, so those owners might want to get 480i output to retain aspect control. Additionally, some HDTVs might have better internal de-interlacers than the 5100 (or their owner might think so).

Claude

Anyone out there with one of these 5100's connected to an Electrohome Marquee front projector???

The reason I ask is this:

I have noticed that since my box's firmware was upgraded, the picture was now green with a very slight tint of the other colors in there. Since I had the box swapped due to other reasons, I thought it was a problem with the new box...it wasn't. I received another new box yesterday and it exhibits the same symptoms.

I did some troubleshooting and found out that this unit outputs tri-level sync, and I was using a standard RGBHV Input #2 board in my E-home. I replaced the #2 RGBHV Input board with an HDTV RGBS Tri_level sync board that I have on hand...and voila'...the colors returned!!! But now I have a problem with the unit blanking on and off occasionally, I'm thinking due to a sync issue.

Does anyone else with this combo (5100 and Marquee) have this problem, or could it be something else??? Everything I've done troubleshooting wise points to a tri-level sync issue. I am using a Key Digital Component to RGBHV transcoder, BTW.

Miatasm,

Can you find out if this box is putting out a tri-level sync? If so, does Comcast offer a transcoder for those that only have RGBHV and not component YPbPr inputs on their HDTV?

Thanks for any help:)!!!

Dave,

Great question. I asked a similar question about 10-11 pages ago. :) I'm sure he's looking into it since he said he would and he's followed through admirably on all issues brought to his attention in the past. (What do you think, too much kissing up???) <Smile>

I'd actually like an answer as well as I'm in the same boat with a Quadscan Elite scaler that only accepts HD signals in the VGA passthrough input so I have to have an RGBHV output signal as well. For now I'm keeping the HDD-200 sidecar until I hear if Comcast offers me another option.

BTW, do you do ISF Certified Calibrations? I've got a Barco Graphics 808 that I'll need ISF'd at some point in time, once I permanently install it.

Later,
Eric Finn

Eric,

Yes, I do calibrations and setups as a matter of fact:)!!! Email me at harperhometheater@comcast.net and we can discuss it. My parents live down your way in Churchville, Bucks County. I grew up there and know the area pretty well.

I think I remember you asking that question now that I think of it. I would love an answer too. Maybe I can hook up the unit to one of our vectorscopes and see what the syncs look like?

I think it may be an issue with the KD transcoder:(!!!

I could be wrong, but I believe the override was done so that the graphics would output over the s-video and composite outputs when the Format was set to 1080i. Also, if the 5100 was set to 1080i with 4:3 override set to Off then a person could display the SETUP MENU (with the 5100 turned off) using s-video or composite. I think that was the reason.

cool! switched to 480i and now i can see the on screen displays! i'm going back to not seeing them though...hehe.

looks like we got the upgrade. we can adjust screen position.

now to figure out how optical audio only produces dolby stereo for premium channels except for main hbo and sho.

there should be a faq for the 5100...imagine reading 20pgs to get an answer.

looks like we got the upgrade. we can adjust screen position.

blizzardo - how do you do this? I would really like to move my screen over to the right for all but HD broadcast. also strech it to fit the screenin 4*3 mode

perhaps I don't have your update yet.

What's the version # for the upgrade?

You can resize/move your display through the On-Screen Guide in the SETUP Section. This might help.

Originally posted by donjulio
You can resize/move your display through the On-Screen Guide in the SETUP Section. This might help.

I forgot about that one. Tried it again and "works" as I remembered. The arrows can be moved left right up and down but the picture never changes - whether on HD channels or 4*3

I must have a different firmware or software version (Montgomery Cty - MD) if this works for other people, or some operator error I am unaware of

Originally posted by RalphArch
I forgot about that one. Tried it again and "works" as I remembered. The arrows can be moved left right up and down but the picture never changes - whether on HD channels or 4*3

I must have a different firmware or software version if this works for other people, or some operator error I am unaware of

It's not operator error. All the screen position option does is move the graphics around. It does nothing with the actual video. Which is too bad becuase the analog is off center to the left (a problem with the box) and on my tv it's shifted too far up (a problem with my TV).

Edit: Should note that this is on whatever version of the firmware they're using here in Seattle. Perhaps this new build spoken of above is different.

I've got my 5100 hooked up via component cables to my Mitsu 55411 and the only off-center picture I have is on ABC's HD channel. It's right of center when looking at the screen. I have not experienced any cropping to the top of the picture on any channels. My override is set to 480P and menus are available on all channels through the component inputs. If I switch to the antenna input I have no menus.

My box is connected to my Rotel RSP-1066 Pre/Pro via coax and all surround formats come off of the 5100 correctly. All non-surround broadcasts are thrown to the DPL II Movie processor in the Rotel.

My only concern is the pixelation (tiling?) on WHYY's high def demo loop. My TV's native resolution is 1080i and that's what the 5100 is set to. On several scenes, especially the Auburn vs. Alabama game, the tiling is HORRIBLE! Is this the demo loop, WHYY's signal, Comcast's signal, the box, or my TV?

Bill

Bill_B4 - I have the same problem with ABC and have since I got Comcast-HD, even with the old sidecar. I think its an issue with the local here in Philly (WPVI-DT), since I've never heard anyone say something about elsewhere. Not really a problem, just an oddity.
Also see those pixilations on WHYY. Consistant problem on any programming WHYY has when there are quick movements. Off the top of my head, I think I remember being told that its a problem with how it was filmed, but I'd have to look back at some old posts.

jkurlanski,

The thing that bugs me about the WHYY problem is that it's the best chance I have of demoing HighDef for guests but I don't want to because of those problems!! They say, "Oh! Look how everything's fuzzy! I thought HDTV was like being there?" Then you've got to decide whether or not to go into the explanation about how it was filmed, how it's still relatively new technology, etc. Doesn't bode well for "spreading the word".

Not to mention the Birds vs. Giants game on ABC's HD channel, while I know not filmed in HD, looked HORRIBLE!!! The lines on the field were bent, had rainbows, and the overall picture was just lousy. All of the college bowl games I watched on that channel look fine but I'm afraid to invite anyone over this Saturday for the game.

Have you had a similar experience?

Bill

Just read this entire thread to here. what great information.. thank you to everyone. A few questions mostly for miatasm


1) firstly, thanx specifically for providing quality info. May i ask what part of south jersey you are in? I am moving to ocean county in a few months (Bricktown area) and would love to arrange for you to be my installer.
2) Is there pricing info anywhere on comcasts website for different packages? zip will be ~08723/08724
3) Is there status of shipping of dvi equipped boxes as was mentioned that were being built?
4) Status of CBS-HD .. this is a biggie for me
5) any thought of WB's digital?
6) as I am unfamiliar with the box, can it also do ota hdtv when attached to an antenna? or do you need an additional box?

thanx in advance
-Jeff

To address some issues here, the problem with the centering of 6-1 has nothing to do with the operation of the box but is due to the overscan of your TV. I noticed the same thing via cable and OTA with my 34" set but never saw the problem on any plasma that I had seen. You saw the same thing with HD NET when the right side of their logo was cut off. Now that I have a plasma as well with minimal overscan, I have no centering issues at all while I still have it with the 34". Both a being fed with 5100 boxes. Yes, I have two. So it is an issue with your TV's overscan, not the signal.

The pixelization you see on PBS on the pom poms on the football game clip are fast motion artifects with the 1080i signal. It has nothing to do with your 5100. I have seen the same thing on all of the other STB's I have seen showing this same loop. If you sit back 6 feet from the screen or more, you should not be able to even see them.

Being new to the HD arena, please excuse the question if it is a bit to simple. It seems that ABC broadcasts its HD in 720p and NBC broadcasts in1080i. Will the 5100 adjust for this or do I have to change a setting on the box depending on the station I am watching??

Originally posted by maximus22
Being new to the HD arena, please excuse the question if it is a bit to simple. It seems that ABC broadcasts its HD in 720p and NBC broadcasts in1080i. Will the 5100 adjust for this or do I have to change a setting on the box depending on the station I am watching??
You would only need to change a setting if you insisted on watching shows in their NATIVE format. You can set the 5100 to output 1080i or 720p, and it will do so for any HD show. Usually, most people set the output to whatever their display handles natively, if their display handles both natively, they would set the output to the format they watch most often (probably 1080i).

One setting works well enough, though my wish-list would include a setting that lets HD through without scaling.

Claude

PS This can be much more complicated if you let it be. For example, my 10HT PJ handles 768p natively, and it does well with 720p input. On the other hand, I'd rather the PJ scale from 1080i to 768p than have the 5100 scale 1080i to 720p which the PJ then scales to 768p.

For probably 80% of users, it should be set to 1080i.

Thanks Claude for the answer. You lost me there with the last comment but I think I understand. I'll leave it on 1080i.

"If you sit back 6 feet from the screen or more, you should not be able to even see them"

I sit 8 feet back and it's plain as day. This is the only time such a thing occurs, never on any other TRUE HD material.

Bill

My only concern is the pixelation (tiling?) on WHYY's high def demo loop. My TV's native resolution is 1080i and that's what the 5100 is set to. On several scenes, especially the Auburn vs. Alabama game, the tiling is HORRIBLE! Is this the demo loop, WHYY's signal, Comcast's signal, the box, or my TV?

That sounds like a compression artifact. Too low of a data rate for the action being recorded. Could have been done originally (most likely,) or it could be that WHYY is recompressing, or it could be the Comcast is recompressing. It's doubtfull it is your display.

This does *not* sound like an interlacing artifact that you should expect with a 1080i source.

Bill_B4 - Don't remember anything bad with the Eagles/Giants game a couple weeks back (other than the outcome). And usually the broadcast is very good on ABC for the Monday night football games. Not HD, but better than the Analog feed on comcast. The next game we see on ABC should be a little bit better!
JWhip - as for the pixilization on WHYY, I agree that its visible from across the street let alone 8 ft. :-) Its pretty bad on some shots.
And whats overscan? Forgive my ignorance on this issue but its nothing I remember coming across before. I just assumed the problem had something to do w/720p--> 1080i on my TV or the cable box since my TV won't show 720p and I don't see this shift on any other channels.

I have a 43" Samsung dlp, which displays native 720p. My 5100 arrives on 1/24. I will connect the box via component cables ONLY to my HD input on the DLP which accepts 480p and higher resolutions. I will set the output resolution on the 5100 to 720p and my display as 16:9.

What do I do with the 4:3 override? I can't set it to 480i, as I won't be connecting via s-vid or composite. Also, the HD component input on my DLP won't accept 480i signals. I could set it to 480p, and let the DLP upscale the 480p signal to 720p. Or, I could set it to "OFF", and let the 5100 do the scaling of 480i SD to 720p. Is this correct? Will either the 480p or "off" settings have an effect on the on-screen menus?

Thanks for the help,

mattG

Set it to off and it will get up-converted to 720p. You'll see the menus, and you'll get black pillars to the sides.

I don't own one, but I've heard the pillars could cause burn-in on a Plasma.

Joe12,

Mgold1999 said he has a dlp, so there's no chance of burn-in.

Oops, for some reason I was thinking he said plasma. I guess I'm too lazy to let my eye's scroll upward before typing. ;-)

Has anyone found a way to emit discrete on/off codes from the 5100 remote?

I have seen the same pixelation on the PBS loop from Scranton's WVIA, Channel 39 in Allentown, Channel 12 in Philly and in PBS in NYC on many different receivers. It is in the signal and not caused by the 5100. Regarding overscan, all consumer TV's have it to varying degrees. There is something called a safe area where the broadcasters place their graphic overlays so they do not appear to be cut off on miscentered. You will not notice overscan at all if there were no graphic overlays. Go into Tweeter and watch their HD sets doing HD Net and as long as the HD NET logo is in the right hand corner, you will be able to see the varying degrees of overscan. Basically, the set is not displaying the entire full picture and is losing small amounts of information on all four sides of the pictures. There is a big difference in the overscan on my plasma vs. my 34" Panasonic direct view.

I can safely say that the PBS pixelation wasnt present when I got my box initially (about 2 months ago).. now its very present.. ESPECIALLY RED's!!!

Matt:

I set the 4:3 override to 480i with the 5100 connected to my receiver with only component cables. This worked fine, with menus intact and my TV able to properly scale the non-HD material. It has no effect on any progressive or HD material.

Don't know if this is a special feature of my receiver (B&K 307) or if it's true of every receiver, but my 5100 connection couldn't have been simpler: 1 component video cable and one digital audio cable!

BTW, for anyone who hasn't installed the 5100 yet, I strongly advise that you be present during the installation, ready with the high quality cables you need. My installer was very nice, but he took 1 look at my HT system and said he's only connected the box directly to a TV! Needless to say, I made all the connections while he went to turn on HBO outside the house!

-HMA

I have seen the PBS loop now for three years and have always seen the pixelation on the Auburn-Alabama highlights.

Originally posted by hma
Matt:

I set the 4:3 override to 480i with the 5100 connected to my receiver with only component cables. This worked fine, with menus intact and my TV able to properly scale the non-HD material. It has no effect on any progressive or HD material. -HMA

Thanks for the replies, all. The HD component inputs on the Samsung DLP sets only accepts resolutions of 480p and higher. It will not accept 480i. So setting the 4:3 override to 480i wouldn't work with my TV. Joe12's suggestion of 4:3 override to "OFF" would allow the 5100 to scale 480i to 720p. I'll try it.

Audio question. With the video hooked up via a single set of component cables, can I hook up BOTH digital audio (via coax or toslink) to my Lexicon DC-1 pre/pro, AND 2-channel analog (RCA) to my TV? I'd like the wife and kids to be able to watch TV through the TV's speakers without firing up my A/V system.

Thanks, all.

Matt

Using both audio hookups SHOULDN'T be a problem. I know I can get sound through the TV's speakers by switching to it's "Antenna" input. That usually the way the wife watches it as she finds my HT system daunting.

Cheers!
Bill

Last question. I promise. It may be posted somewhere earlier in this thread, but DVI is listed in the on-line literature as optional on the 5100. Has anyone determined if/when this will be available?

Matt

Not anytime soon. Too many issues surrounding it's use.

Originally posted by mgold1999
Last question. I promise. It may be posted somewhere earlier in this thread, but DVI is listed in the on-line literature as optional on the 5100. Has anyone determined if/when this will be available?

Matt

I'm sorry I have been extremely busy lately , and as always I will try to answer your questions.

First this one DVI will be avail. sooner than you all think. The next generation 5100's (which are being built now will have DVI incorporated. I do not know how and when they will be released to Comcast or the customers but they will have them, sooner than later. Please be patient, I'm sure someone will post here when they get one....

miatasm send you a pm

Originally posted by trancer23
Just read this entire thread to here. what great information.. thank you to everyone. A few questions mostly for miatasm


1) firstly, thanx specifically for providing quality info. May i ask what part of south jersey you are in? I am moving to ocean county in a few months (Bricktown area) and would love to arrange for you to be my installer.
2) Is there pricing info anywhere on comcasts website for different packages? zip will be ~08723/08724
3) Is there status of shipping of dvi equipped boxes as was mentioned that were being built?
4) Status of CBS-HD .. this is a biggie for me
5) any thought of WB's digital?
6) as I am unfamiliar with the box, can it also do ota hdtv when attached to an antenna? or do you need an additional box?

thanx in advance
-Jeff

Jeff I did get your PM sorry for the delay (a 3 year old & 2 year old that apparently need the computer more than I do!!)

I do not work or live in the Ocean County Area, so I can't help you there sorry about that.

There is no place on the Comcast.com site for pricing. But it seem sthat would be a good idea though......

There is no status on the shipping of the DVI boxes but I would assume it would be, at the latest, early 2nd qtr. Just my educated guess, considering I was told about a month ago the were being built now.

No updates on the status of CBS, I think this is a biggy for everyone.

My personal thought on how WB's digital looks.....it look very good as a start....it needs some improvement but otherwise good....if you meant on the possibility of Comcast getting it up online, I wouldn't think anytime soon considering the limited amount of programming and it not being one of the big three. That also goes for UPN.

No the 5100 doesn't do OTA HD also. Its only function for HD is to decode QAM modulated signals not OTA (8vsb) signals.

thanx so much for all your info!

Originally posted by DHarp193

Miatasm,

Can you find out if this box is putting out a tri-level sync? If so, does Comcast offer a transcoder for those that only have RGBHV and not component YPbPr inputs on their HDTV?

Thanks for any help:)!!!

I have a come accrossed part numbers for all types of custom cables that Comcast supposedly offers, including a transcoder, but have yet to find out who & where these pieces are being supplied by. I will do some more research to try and come up with more info. Assuming this I expect that the 5100 is putting out tri-level sync.

I have recieved news that the analog PQ firmware should be ready to go first week of February. The locations that it will be launched then are unknown as of now, and the exact properties of the firmware update aren't released yet, but Analog PQ is the major one of course.

Speaking of Firmware, I've seen users on this forum constantly posting their firmware versions on this forum, and they all are posting different numbers completely. I've seen 50.00, 00, 04, 51.00-1132, ect. It make for some confusing reading. I would hope that we could all get on the same page with these numbers, by posting the ACTUAL Firmware# from the Diagnostics menu. The following procedure accesses these numbers:

Power the 5100 "off" --> Press "select" --> This will access the Diag. Menu. --> Arrow "down" to selection "d08 code modules" --> press "select" --> The Bootloader & Firmware numbers are at the top --> My box has 02.15 as the Bootloader & 02.40 for the Firmware. My box has the latest updates.

Originally posted by miatasm

My personal thought on how WB's digital looks.....it look very good as a start....it needs some improvement but otherwise good....if you meant on the possibility of Comcast getting it up online, I wouldn't think anytime soon considering the limited amount of programming and it not being one of the big three. That also goes for UPN.



ARGH!!!! I want Smallville and Enterprise in hi-def !!!

My local rep said he thought WB was on the way, along with CBS...

I will be getting Comcast HD installed tomorrow morning. I have a question concerning the 5100. If you set the 4:3 Override mode to 480p or off (720p), does your 16:9 TV allow you to stretch the image to fill the whole screen?

Thanks,

Frank T. Lee

ftlee,
You could manually do it, but what your set is receiving is a wide-screen image with the black bars put on by the 5100.

You could manually do it, but what your set is receiving is a wide-screen image with the black bars put on by the 5100.

What does this mean? How do you get the SD image to fill the entire 16:9 screen? Is the 5100 putting out a 16:9 image that contains a 4:3 image and black bars on both sides? Or, are they putting out a 4:3 image that can be stretched using the TV's stretch modes?

Thanks,

Frank T. Lee

Frank,
Unless you are using an override mode the 5100 upconverts the 480i signals to your HD res of choice, which is widescreen. It adds the black bars before sending the signal, just as a TV station adds the black bars around a 4:3 commercial. Your set sees a widescreen picture, so it's not going to automatically "stretch" it.

If you want to stretch it, you'll need to do so manually, or possibly you could set the override to 480i, use a different set of inputs on your display (like s-video) and have that input set to behave the way you want.

Are you using a display that would suffer from burn-in (like a plasma) or do you just not like the black bars?

joe,

I have a Samsung DLP (HLM617W) so, burn-in is not a problem. I do not like the black bars though. If I understand you correctly, the 5100 is outputting a 16:9 image so, there is no way to use the TV's stretch modes. What if you set the 4:3 override for 480p? Will it still send a 16:9 image to the TV?

What are people doing that have CRT-based 16:9 sets?

-ftlee

If I understand you correctly, the 5100 is outputting a 16:9 image so, there is no way to use the TV's stretch modes.

All HD resolutions are 16:9, but 480 (either i or p) can be both. Many displays, when they see 480p, though, treat it as a HD signal and lock on and assume 16:9 (mine does, for example.)

480i is rarely assumed to be widescreen. That's why in your case I suggested you let the 5100 output 4:3 material as 480i. That way you have more options on your display end as to how you want to manipulate the picture.

Ron, did your local rep say when comcast would get CBS?

PBS loop seems to be getting badder with every day.....

anyone else getting more pixelation?

He said early next (this) year...I got the impression it was first quarter 2003...and he didn't think wb was far behind, because I specifically asked about it.

I had a chance to pick the brains of Motorola' Horsham PA Broadband people at CES today. They said that the 5200 will ship around 6/03. They indicated that Comcast is the MSO provider most interested in deploying it. The non-working model on the show floor had a 80 gb Seagate harddrive. They said that they will be selling the 5100/5200 in retail stores in areas where the MSO wants them to. They used Adelphia in LA as an example but not Comcast. The 5100 costs about $350 and the 5200 $175 more depending on the size of the HD.

They said interest from MSO's in Firewire is "falling fast"

Of interest, Sony was showing a working cable HD box with PVR. It was very impressive. They said that it works with Motorola's Head-End hardware/software. I doubt that Motorola's licensing agreement's with the MSO's will allow them to compete with the 5100/5200. However competition can only be good.

Originally posted by phil_e

.
.
.
The non-working model on the show floor had a 80 gb Seagate harddrive.

They said interest from MSO's in Firewire is "falling fast"
.
.
.


Argh! I want my firewire! 80gb just won't be enough...that's only 8 hours of hi-def! And I want the firewire port so I can justify getting a d-theater vcr!

Anyone know if the new d-theater models coming at ces (hopefully) allow recording with something other than firewire? I think I saw a post here from someone who is there now...

Motorola said they can use any size harddrive. It just depends on how much the MSO wants to pay. Unfortunately it didn't sound good for firewire. Why would the MSO want to give us recording capability free when they can charge a fee for built-in PVR like VOD?

Originally posted by Ron
Argh! I want my firewire! 80gb just won't be enough...that's only 8 hours of hi-def! And I want the firewire port so I can justify getting a d-theater vcr!

Anyone know if the new d-theater models coming at ces (hopefully) allow recording with something other than firewire? I think I saw a post here from someone who is there now...

I too hope the 5200s ship with 1394 ports. Not so I can hook up a DVHS deck (tape blows) but so I can add an extneral HD with gobs of space as the marketing spew on the 5200 calims you can do.

Unfortunately, tape is currently my only option to record...unless someone knows something better?

Does anybody in Howard County, MD have one of thses boxes? Comcast hooked up my HD yesterday and used the SA 3100HD box. They said that they do not support the Motorola 5100HD in Howard County. I do not like the 3100HD guide.

Thanks,

Frank T. Lee

Does anyone have a Pioneer 503 hooked up to a Faroudja NRS?

I've been dying to get HDTV but like many trees in my town of Summit, NJ prevent reception both Terrestrial (prior 9/11) and with DirecTV.

How do you use the 5100 box with the Faroudja NRS.

Also for all you pioneers / early adopters --- is Comcast ready to deliver HDTV in our Northern NJ area -- vis-a-vis quality?

thanks

Michael M

On my Pioneer elite 610 rptv, those modes will NOT allow you to stretch the image, since my tv locks into "full" mode with any progressive signal. If yours does the same, set the override to "480i" and it should work fine without affecting the HD material.

-HMA

Frank Lee:

The previous post is meant as an answer to you. I didn't see all the posts before it!

Michael:

I had the same tree problem in Westfield. I have directv, but not HD due to the trees, and just got Comcast HD last week. Comparing the same material in standard cable, Directv, and Comcast HD, there is a major improvement from standard cable to sat, then a QUANTUM LEAP from satellite to HDTV. It's definitely worth it if you have a large display and will be satisfied with only NBC, ABC, HBO and an occasional Showtime HD movie. Showtime has lots of upconveted material, which isn't as impressive.

Install and operation (for only 1 week) has been problem-free.

Just wondering what you have heard about activating the DOCSIS port & dual tuner feature of the 5100. I'm assuming that the 5200 will have the dual tuner turned on.

Originally posted by Michael M
Also for all you pioneers / early adopters --- is Comcast ready to deliver HDTV in our Northern NJ area -- vis-a-vis quality?

thanks

Michael M
Both I (in Short Hills) and a friend (in Summit) had the same difficulties you're having with OTA and Satellite. We've both had Comcast HD for a few weeks now, and we're both very pleased.

I'm chomping at the bit for more channels and for the 5200. However, on balance I'm somewhere between satisfied and very happy. It's not HD, but the quality of downrezzed HD into my ReplayTV is leagues better than normal analog cable. As a fact of life, I seldom have a chance to watch HD in "real time."

I don't have an NRS device, so I can't help you, but I would assume that the component out of the 5100 is input to the NRS, which most likely has a bypass feature for HD.

Claude

I just had Comcast upgrade my service to digital with HD and was expecting the new Motorola box. When I got home, I found that they installed a Scietific Atlanta box. Should I complain and ask for the Motorola box?

Also, is there an equivelant "digital" channel for the local stations? The HD ABC and NBC look much better than analog (ABC isn't always available), but since there is no CBS HD, I'm stuck with the crappy analog signal.

fdefulvio,
If you didn't get the moto box, it's most likely your branch of Comcast is not offering it.

I doubt that Comcast will devote bandwidth to a non-HD digitial channel that they already carry unless they are forced to. (Assuming there even is an digital feed available to them.)

I guess I should have mentioned that I live in South Jersey, and from what I've read, the Motorola box is available. My main question is whether the new Motorola box is going to provide me with any better performance or features than the Scientific Atlanta box, assuming it is also available? I think my box is a SA 2100HD or 3100HD.

Thanks,

Frank D.

HMA:

Just out of curiousity -- what are going to do with DirecTV? My family is addicted to TIVO and likes seeing TIVO shows on the 50" Plasma.

I guess I'm thinking to just add Comcast on... keep the TIVO working with the Plasma so I can timeshift and record -- becasue as far as I can tell for now there is no effective way to record.timeshift HD? Is that your understanding --

So in effect I wind up buying HD input from Comcast that I am only able to see in real time? I guess I train family to switch input settings when they want to watch a ABC/NBC that is broadcast in HD and keep the TIVO recording if they miss it ?

HMA -- Also what is your take on the comparison of non HD DirecTV channels and the basic non HD channels on Comcast?

fdefulvio said:
"I just had Comcast upgrade my service to digital with HD and was expecting the new Motorola box. When I got home, I found that they installed a Scietific Atlanta box. Should I complain and ask for the Motorola box?"

Motorola and SA are two different systems, and I don't believe they are currently compatible. If you got the SA, then Comcast's system in your area can't use the Motorola at this time.

I've been looking through most of the threads and still can't seem to a basic how to to get the firmware upgraded from 1096 to 1132. I have comcast in Philadelphia. Do I call customer service or is one sent out automatically(periodically) as fixes come out. Appreciate the help and apologize if this info is already available

Thanks
Jay

does anyone get black bars on the sides of abc and nbc HD channels? the 4:3 override only seems to work for me on analog and digital channels, not the HD channels...

As I understand it, ABC and NBC are sending their SD programming through the HD DTV encoder, and its putting the bars in. Effectively, you're getting a 16x9 picture, so there's nothing to override.

Yep, when most HD channels have to show 4:3 material they pre-encode the pillars and send you a 16:9 signal.

Originally posted by joe12south
Yep, when most HD channels have to show 4:3 material they pre-encode the pillars and send you a 16:9 signal.

I'm not so sure. I used to have a HiPix card that reflected the actual ota transmission; but now I have a MyHD card that I use to watch ABC CBS and NBC and FOX digital OTA here in Washington. Maybe there is someone out there that can report back on the actual signals being transmitted.

The thing is I have no problem using the zoom mode on the card to make these 4*3 shows properly fill my screen; provided I have selected a mode such as 1440*1080i for the display (I have a 4*3 display) versus a 16*9 mode such as 1920*1080i.

I can't get as satisfactory a screen out of my COMCAST 5100 as with the computer card - and I still believe it has to do with limitations on output modes and aspect rations that are not being made available through the hardware or software.

Ralph,
I'm assuming that the pillars are being added at the originator but you are right: they could also be added by Comcast, or by the 5100 itself. I do know for a fact that at least *some* stations do this before the signal is transmitted reason being it would be *very* annoying for your display to jump in and out of different modes everytime they go to commercial.

Since I don't have anyway to decode a QAM signal other than the 5100 I can't verify one way or another, but it would really surprise me if it were the 5100 that was adding the pillars. Maybe miatasm can verify?

I just checked Detroit ABC and it is indeed pillarboxed right now, both on my 5100 and my HiDTV card. On the HiDTV card I have other options to get rid of this.

... moments later ...

Just checked again. On the 5100 I also have those options. But they are ignored for 1080i output for some reason. If I say I want 4:3 Pan & Scan output and choose 480p output resolution then it expands the picture and clips off the sides.

I rarely watch non-HD through the component outputs because for those I mostly just use my Tivo and/or DScaler. So I didn't previously know all this. I wonder if it is a 5100 bug that pan&scan is ignored in 1080i?

- Tom

So I didn't previously know all this. I wonder if it is a 5100 bug that pan&scan is ignored in 1080i?

my letterbox doesn't have any effect in 1080i as well. Perhaps these only work in 480i?

Well, like I said it works in 480p too. Looks very good actually, though it would be a pain to switch back and forth.

I guess if I were to use it that way then I'd leave Pan & Scan turned on all the time and have it be ignored in 1080i mode. But then I could switch to 480p mode for a pillarboxed show and it would automatically start panning and scanning.

- Tom

Last night I was watching an upconvert of West Wing just because the upconvert with high bandwidth blows away analog or DTV signals... I also had the sidebar issue. I didn't realize that it could be set to pan & scan at 480p, this is good to know. Not good for commercials, but for an hour-long show it should do the trick. Does it work for 720p? Also, is your TV set to 4:3 or 16:9 in the menu?

My TV technically is 4:3 (Tosh TN55x81) though these days it's sort of a 14:9, having to do with some compromises I made in service mode to get both computer display and early HDTV cards working nicely.

Prior to last night I always left the 5100 on 16:9/1080i but now I have it on 4:3 p&s and switch back and forth from 480p to 1080i. But I haven't actually used it much that way so there may still be something I'm missing about all this.

- Tom

A Little Help..

I have been reading some posts about 4:3 pan & scan etc. and am a little confused. I have a Pioneer Elite Pro-800 HD Plasma...I have my DCT5100 set to 16:9, 1080i, 480i. I have experimented with changing the 1080i to 720p and also changed the 480i to 480p. I really don't see much difference if any at all on any of the changed settings. Where in the world should the box be set so you don't have to switch back and forth all the time for best all around viewing? What are the benefits/drawbacks of whatever is suggested?

Howard

Howard, I think that's largely a matter of preference. I have a 16:9 projector with a 16:9 screen so my preference is everything out at 720p and 4:3 Override "OFF." The benefits to me are:

1) Constant height, varying width picture (what I prefer.)
2) My projector doesn't have to re-sync each time I go from a HD channel to a SD channel.

In your case, 720p would probably be the best HD setting (ABC would pass through at the native res of your display.) What you do with 4:3 material is largely a preference for convenience ... scaling it doesn't make it look any better. I guess with a plasma you might be concerned with burn-in, so maybe you want to use the 4:3 override so that you could save a setting on your display to zoom in on 480i signal. (you might have to use a different connector, like s-video, for the 480i signal.)

Thanks Joe....I am using 4:3 override as a matter of fact. I use component output from the 5100 for all channels. When I tune to an HD channel and it is not an actual HD broadcast, I have the bars on the side so I basically don't watch that broadcast even though it might look better than SD TV. (you know the burn-in fear) I have been keeping the box set to 720p, as I believe that is better than 1080i from all that I read about the scaling up and down that is done. The resolution of the Pioneer says it will go from 480i to 1080p, so there should be no problem in that department.

Howard

The resolution of the Pioneer says it will go from 480i to 1080p, so there should be no problem in that department.

BTW, the native or *true* resolution is 720p. Everything else is scaled up or down to 720 before being display.

Howard, in order to watch the upconvert, set the output to 480p with the TV set to 4:3 pan and scan. This will activate the pan and scan which will get rid of the bars. Unfortunately you have to change it back to 1080i when real HD content comes on.

Felgar.....Now I get it. I did what you suggested and set the 5100 output to 480p and the TV set to 4:3 pan and scan. Although I believe the picture on those programs not broadcast in HD is better than the analog version, I don't know if it is worth changing back and forth for that. Especially when the wife might be viewing....No disrespect there but you know what I mean.

I have been experimenting with keeping the output set to 720p to see if there is any noticeable difference doing that. So far, it is a wash for me and hard to tell. I understand the progressive picture should be better than the interlaced one, from what I read and hear.

Howard

I find the 720p to be worse on the 1080i feeds. I have a 480p plasma, and I think it does a better job downconverting the 1080i signal than the moto box. So unless there's a native 720p feed from ABC (which I have never seen not having an ABC feed) then I think 1080i is better. At least for me it is. Artifacts seem to be introduced when the receiver converts the 1080i to 720p. Btw, I know what you mean about the WAF, though it's not a problem for me at present.

The never ending discussion of 1080i vs 720p....

This may be of some interest to many others besides myself. I pulled this site from another HDTV forum and thought this would be interesting. In the beginning of the web page there is discussion on the broadcasting of the Super Bowl and the company that will be doing it. Towards the middle of the page a tremendous, in my opinion, discussion takes place concerning the 1080i vs 720p format and what is best for viewing etc. It sure answered many questions I had. Maybe it will help others.

Howard

1080i vs 720p.......The web site is.....

http://www.jonasjensen.com/multi.htm


Howard...sorry bout that...

Well got the HD hookup today from Comcast. Went smoothly they brought Component Cables for hook up. Observations so far are this: I am not as wowed as I thought I would be. NBC HD is poor so is ABC. PBS1 is very good especially when they are showing nature, sea, stuff like that. Getting HD has seemed to bring on or exagerate Red Push.

Has anybody else experienced worse red push since getting HD. do you notice that NBCHD is a lot worse than PBS?

I own a Hitachi 57uwx20b for what it is worth.

I need some help with this, My 5100 is set to 16:9 and the override is set to 480i But when I am viewing some HD programing that is not 16:9 format i get black bars on all 4 sides of the picture. I have looked in my SONY manual and looked for the stretch mode, but don not see anything . I have a Sony KV-40XBR-700, and 5100 motorola comcast HD box

In reading this thread, I notice that a number of people have raised questions about audio levels at the various outputs and the proper use of the "compression" settings in the setup menus. I believe that these issues are identical for the DCT-2000 and DCT-5100 set-top boxes. Furthermore, these issue relate to Motorola's implementation of the Dolby Digital audio standards.

I've spent considerable time reading Dolby Labs tech papers on Dolby Digital encoding and decoding and I might be able to shed some light on these issues. It is important to remember that the DCT-xxxx digital cable boxes are licensed Dolby Digital decoders and, therefore, everything they do in terms of audio can be traced to the Dolby Digital feature-set. IMO, the Dolby Digital standard is remarkable in both its capabilities and flexibility. However, those things make it fairly complicated and I think Motorola may have missed one key detail in their implementation that results in many of the volume-level mismatches that show up.

The single most important thing to understand about Dolby Digital is that is capable of unprecedented dynamic range. Looking at a high-end Dolby Digital playback system with no compression, with the volume control set to official Dolby Reference Levels: Average dialog levels (from a single channel) will be reproduced at -31dBFS (31 db below maximum full scale digital signal) and the loudest peaks will be reproduced 31dB higher at 0dbFS! The softest sounds could be at the level of audibity, perhaps - 70dBFS. This recording is intended to be played at very high playback levels. Official Dolby Reference playback levels put the average dialog levels at 74 dB and maximum peaks (again from single channel) at a whopping 105 dB). This puts the average dialog at a realistic level for spoken words (as loud as if the actors were in your living room), but the loudest possible peaks are staggeringly loud. Hats off to Dolby for providing this dynamic range. This, BTW, is the "NONE" compression setting on the DCT-xxxx settop boxes and the setting used on Dolby Digital receivers with the no compression setting.

However, on lesser systems, this available dynamic range creates problems. If the loudest peaks are too loud for your speakers (or your ears), you can't just "turn it down" or the dialog levels start dropping to the point where you can't hear the actors. Dolby has recognized the need for Dolby Digital to be flexible enough for all kinds of systems: from good to bad. They have incorporated a very, very sophisticated compression system to reduce this dynamic range.

One part of the this system would be characterized as "mild" compression and results in the kind of dynamic range you might expect from a VHS Hi-FI recording. This compression mode leaves the average dialog level unchanged at -31 dbFS, but reduces the peak levels by as much as 10 dB and boosts very quiet sounds by as much as 15 dB. When played back at Dolby reference levels, the movie will still sound "loud" by those enormous cannon shots and explosions won't shred your "home theater in a box" quality speakers. This compression setting is commonly known as "midnight mode" on Dolby Digital receivers and I believe this corresponds to the "LIGHT" compression setting on the Motorola DCT-xxxx boxes.

This is STILL way too much dynamic range for signals that are being sent by RF modulators to the speakers built into a TV set. These signals will totally overload the RF modulators (for sending a signal from the set-top box to the Channel 3 input on a TV) and will drive TV speakers into gross distortion if turned up loud enough to hear the actors. So, Dolby has designed yet another level of compression into the Dolby Digital standard so that Dolby Digital can be used with these types of low-end systems. In their white papers, Dolby refers to this compression mode as "RF MODE" and it is REQUIRED in set-top box Dolby Digital decoders. This mode limits the loudest peaks to just 10 dB above average dialog levels and boosts quiet sounds to within 25 dB of average dialog levels, for a max dynamic range of just 35 dB -- about what we are used to from over-the-air TV broadcasts. Then, the boost the average dialog level UP by 11 dB to -20dbFS, so that you can hear the actors when the playback volume levels are reduced to what an average TV can reproduce. This highly compressed RF mode is not found on Dolby Digital receivers, but it is the "HEAVY" compression mode on the DCT-xxxx set top boxes.

Because the average signal level is boosted by 11 db in RF mode, you would get a huge volume difference when switching between RF heavy compression and the other compression modes on a set-top box. To prevent this, the Dolby Digital decoder is SUPPOSED to kick in an analog pre-amp level attenuator of 11dB (after the Dolby Digital decoder) when RF mode compression is activated -- therefore the average signal level will be unchanged when you switch compression modes. I'm fairly certain that Motorola overlooked this requirement and failed to implement the offsetting 11db analog attenuation stage with their RF mode. That's why there is such a HUGE volume difference when you go from "HEAVY" compression mode to either "LIGHT" or "NONE".

All of this just applies to the decoded analog signals at the RCA line outputs or the RF coax outputs. I don't believe that it applies to the optical or coax digital audio outputs on the DCT-2000 or DCT-5000. Those should be supplying a pure pass-through of the incoming Dolby Digital bitstream which will be decoded by your Dolby Digital receiver at one of its digital inputs. As near as I can tell on my DCT-2000, the digital audio outputs are not effected by the compression (or volume) settings on the set-top box.

So why are analog stations so much louder than the digital stations, even at the digital audio outputs? Well, digital stations have a Dolby Digital encoded audio track (whether it is 5.1 or stereo or mono). Dolby Digital encodes these at a fixed (and known) level with average signal levels at -31dBFS. But, the analog stations cannot have a Dolby Digital audio track -- their audio is plain old analog MTS stereo. The DCT-xxxx must run this analog stereo signal through an analog-to-digital converter and send it out the digital audio outputs as a Dolby Digital 2.0 PCM bitstream. The levels of this converted signal are clearly much higher than the officially prescribed levels of the Dolby Digital audio tracks on digital stations.

So what does this mean? If you have a Dolby Digital receiver, you should connect the digital audio output (optical or coax) from the DCT-xxxx to a digital input on your receiver. Then, make sure that you activate the digital audio input rather than the analog input on your receiver. If you want less than full dynamic range, use your receiver's compression settings.

There is no need in the above situation to connect the analog audio RCA outputs from the DCT-xxxx at all. But, if you do so, then you need to set the audio parameters on the DCT-xxxx properly. For good audio performance from a home theater surround system, you should choose either "NONE" or "LIGHT" compression settings. You should also chose the "Matrix Stereo" setting so that your receiver can decode the stereo signal properly with Dolby Pro Logic decoding.

That's the way I see it. Hope this helps!

Thanks, hwc, for a helpful review. Sadly, my DCT-2000 produces only PCM to my receiver despite the guide showing the program in 5.1..... I have had the DCT set as you describe, and every other way, too, but canonly get PCM. Thoughts? I have Comcast cable and the Comcast on-screen guide now identifies the audio signal type.

Originally posted by CKarras
Sadly, my DCT-2000 produces only PCM to my receiver despite the guide showing the program in 5.1..... I have had the DCT set as you describe, and every other way, too, but canonly get PCM. Thoughts? I have Comcast cable and the Comcast on-screen guide now identifies the audio signal type.

Even with the digital output, the vast majority of programming on the DCT-2000 will be 2-channel, decoded by Dolby Pro Logic at your receiver. For example, none of the analog tier could be broadcast in 5.1, because they are analog. Of the digital tier channels, only a few (like HBO) ever broadcast in 5.1 and, then, only selected movies. For example, right now HBO's movie is coming in 5.1 on my box, but the the next HBO up the channel lineup is matrix 2-channel being decoded by Pro Logic. I think that the main HBO and main Showtime channels are the only places I've ever seen a 5.1 signal (and I'm not positive about Showtime!)

On many DVDs, you have to select an optional 5.1 soundtrack or you will get a matrix stereo Dolby 2.0 soundtrack. This is what most movie channels send out for their cable stream.

With the DCT-5001 and HDTV service, the same situation exists, although you add the possibility of an occasional Dolby 5.1 show on one of the HDTV feeds.

All of the above assumes that you have really activated the digital input on your receiver from the cable box. Sure-fire way to know is to disconnect the L/R audio cables!

Originally posted by DBog44
I need some help with this, My 5100 is set to 16:9 and the override is set to 480i But when I am viewing some HD programing that is not 16:9 format i get black bars on all 4 sides of the picture. I have looked in my SONY manual and looked for the stretch mode, but don not see anything . I have a Sony KV-40XBR-700, and 5100 motorola comcast HD box

The Sony 40 inch is not a 16:9 set is it?

If the 5100 is in 16:9 mode, the Sony will probably trigger its automatic "anamorphic squeeze" mode, giving you black bars top and bottom. Now, add the black bars right and left that the DCT-5001 puts on 4:3 HDTV material and there ya go! Black bars all around.

For that material, you need to put the 5100 in one of the 4:3 modes.

hwc, the problem exists even with the digital channels (301+) and the digital (coax) audio output. Perhaps my DCT-2000 is defective.....

Yes, Comcast is coming soon to install their 5100 HD box today. It will be my first look at HDTV on my TV which I've had for 2 years.

I need to verify best configuration for the box.
I have a Sony 53HS10. This is a 4:3 TV with a 16:9 enhanced mode on one input.

What I plan to do is to have component cables hooked up to the 16:9 input for viewing HD channels, and RF or s-video hook up for all other channels. I will use the standard input for most viewing and switch to the 16:9/1080i input only when watching HD.

I know to set 4:3 override to 480i in order to see the menu on the s-video/RF input, but what about the other settings? Will this box most likely have all the latest firmware installed?

Thanks, Frank

Like Ckarras, I receive only PCM on DCT2224.

hwc, on analog channels (all except premium channels) I have no audio on coax output.
Thank you for explaining compression settings on DCT.

Frank,
You're just gonna have to play with the settings and decide which works best for your application. If you want 16:9 and 4:3 materials to behave differently, then the set-up you're proposing might work well.

Originally posted by dovla
Like Ckarras, I receive only PCM on DCT2224.

hwc, on analog channels (all except premium channels) I have no audio on coax output.


OK, here's what I get on my DCT-2224

A) I only have a coax SPDIF digital audio connection to my Pioneer receiver (no L/R RCA line audio connections). I get a digital audio input on ALL channels. This came as a bit of surprise to me because I had read that I would not get digital audio on the analog stations. My DCT-2224 is brand new within the last couple of months, so maybe there was a change? I can only assume that the box is doing an A/D conversion on the analog channels (basically the same thing your receiver does to an analog input).

B) On analog channels (local ABC, ESPN, etc.) I get a PCM digital audio stream, which is decoded by my receiver using ProLogic.

C) On all digital tier channels (plus "analog" channel 60 HBO which must be remapped?), I get a Dolby Digital bitstream indicator on my receiver rather than a PCM bitstream indicator.

D) On all digital tier channels except a couple of the premium movie channels (main HBO, etc.), the receiver defaults to Pro Logic decoding, indicating that the incoming bitstream is matrix Dolby 2.0 rather than 5.1

E) On the main HBO movie channel, it varies. Most movies come in as Dolby 2.0 with Pro Logic decoding (including what's on right now). However, some new release movies (including one that was on this morning) come in as Dolby Digital 5.1 -- the Pro Logic light goes out and the 5.1 indication lights up.

If you guys are seeing something different, then I think it must be one of two reasons:

1) Perhaps my new box is different. It is firmware version 7.54 and software version 15.22. It took me a year to get a box with S-video and digital outs. This one is brand spankin' new, hot off the Motorola presses.

2) Perhaps there is something different at the cable head-end and my cable company passes through the Dolby Digital bitstream while yours passes a PCM bitstream. Maybe a different setting on the head-end satelitte receiver, I don't know?

Originally posted by DBog44
I need some help with this, My 5100 is set to 16:9 and the override is set to 480i But when I am viewing some HD programing that is not 16:9 format i get black bars on all 4 sides of the picture. I have looked in my SONY manual and looked for the stretch mode, but don not see anything . I have a Sony KV-40XBR-700, and 5100 motorola comcast HD box

ALL 4 sides of the picture? The only time I have seen black bars on all sides is if I tuned to a HDTV channel and viewing it via a non-HDTV component TV input like through a composite input.

Just got my 5100 installed today. The installer was friendly, knowledgeable and courteous even though it was the end of the day and there were multiple splits on the line with low quality cable that he had to remove or replace. He went out of his way to make sure I could still split the RF so I can do PNP and he even gave me with good quality cables for the audio signal as well.
I know it was posted somewhere once but I couldn't find the link to the manual for the 5100. If anyone wants it , here's the link http://gicout60.gic.gi.com/customer_docs/user_guides/495012-001-a.pdf. If anyone has a link to more detailed info, please post it. I'll post in a day or two after I've had a chance to fully evaluate the 5100.
My Equipment.
Tosh 57HDX82
Replay 5040, SS3030
Onkyo Integra A/V receiver
2 std VCR's

Originally posted by Dan W
ALL 4 sides of the picture? The only time I have seen black bars on all sides is if I tuned to a HDTV channel and viewing it via a non-HDTV component TV input like through a composite input.
Doesn't this always happen on 4:3 sets when a HD channel is showing 4:3 material? The channel puts left and right bars up, and the TV puts up top and bottom bars. On most sets, if it's a HD input, you can't zoom your troubles away.

Originally posted by hwc
On the main HBO movie channel, it varies. Most movies come in as Dolby 2.0 with Pro Logic decoding (including what's on right now). However, some new release movies (including one that was on this morning) come in as Dolby Digital 5.1 -- the Pro Logic light goes out and the 5.1 indication lights up.

Just as a follow up. I haven't watched many HBO movies since I tend to stick to Netflix DVD rentals for that. However, in double-checking for my results posted enough, I happened to catch a loud action sequence in "Miss Congeniality" on HBO in Dolby Digital 5.1 from my DCT-2224.

Without doing a side-by-side comparison, I would say that the soundtrack was essentially identical to the DD 5.1 soundtrack on a DVD. There was a lot of discrete information from the surround channels, dynamic range was excellent, soundfield was impressive: all the characteristics of a DD 5.1 soundtrack.

Additionally, I would say that the levels were correct. I have a calibrated system so I know where the "official" Dolby reference playback levels are on my system. Since part of the Dolby Digital standard includes a "dialog normalization" parameter that sets recording levels, all Dolby Digital movies should playback at the same, known volume level. I have found this to be the case with Dolby Digital 5.1 DVDs, give or take a few dB depending on how stringently the movie engineers stuck to the Dolby production guidelines. It appeared that the HBO Dolby Digital 5.1 soundtrack came from the DCT-2000 digital outputs at the correct levels.

Well guys reading all these posts it looks like the Motorola 5100 box is superior to the SA 3100HD. All of the problems you describe that have been fixed, still exist on the SA3100box. The lower analog station look like s_it on the 31000HD. I live in Harford County MD, which is using the 3100HD box. Baltimore county right next to me is using the Motorola 5100 box. Is it possible to use the Motorola box in Harford County or is there some sort of technology difference? I bet they just selected the SA box due to cost issues, or some similar reason.

I have heard that amplifiers can help cable signals dramatically, especially if there are multiple tv's hooked up. Has anyone used one with the Moto 5100 and noticed improvements or problems? Especially wondering about the HD stations (in Seattle, on HBO and SHO right now).

curtisb;

Yes, Comcast installed my 5100 box about a week ago, and also installed an amplifier on the line coming into my house, since the signal levels at my box were a bit low, especially in the HD-channel frequencies. The tech remarked that the amp needs to be 2-way compatible in order to enable PPV, VOD, etc. Another item of note, he connected the line to my cable modem to a splitter upstream of the amp; he stated that amps are not compatible with cable modems, though I'm not sure why.

Performance has been OK; some nights the HD reception is nearly perfect and on others there is a lot of video breakup and audio dropouts. I suspect this is due to issues in Comcast's lines and not in my house, since the signal strength at my box is good.

My step-father ordered his 56" JVC AV-56WP30 about 10 days ago, and on Friday I picked up the Moto DCT-5100 box from Comcast here in Nashville so they could watch the big game in hi-def. Up until now, the best picture he was getting was upconverted images from his 480i capable JVC DVD player and the DirecTivo.

Setup was pretty easy; Comcast had already preconfigured the box for 1080i output with 480i on the analog channels and a 16x9 default aspect ratio. We used a single coax digital cable to get sound back to the JVC receiver (RX-884V).

I didn't have any time to properly calibrate the set with Vid Essentials or Avia, but the convergence out of the box looked good. I turned the Detail setting all the way down, then changed the channel to HBOHD. They were showing "Charlie's Angels". The movie was at the point where the Angels were taking the tugboat to the villain's island. I switched back and forth between regular HBO and HBOHD, marveling at the difference.

The next day was the game. With friends over to watch the game on the new set, I turned the game onto the standard def CBS channel for about a minute to have everyone marvel at what they thought was a good picture. Then I switched over to HD CBS. Even my mother, who isn't normally impressed by consumer elctronics and was grumbling early on at the size of the TV was wowed by the picture. Thanks to CBS for making the game worth watching, even though the Titans lost.

I still don't know if everything in this setup is at optimum settings yet, so I'll have to go back over to their house to fiddle with it. The standard def channels generally suck, but this isn't much different than normal Comcast. The satellite channels look much better, but that goes without saying. It will take another year I'm told to get an HD DirecTivo, so we keep the cablebox for the meantime.

One other off-topic note: JVC's AV Compulink system for controlling like JVC devices has lots of problems with this new TV. I'm thinking older receiver doesn't know what to do with a TV that has more than one set of component inputs, and the receiver has none anyway. The receiver doesn't even know how to turn on the set properly (although it can turn it off). Needless to say, my stepfather is back to using 4 remotes (TV, receiver, DVD, DirecTivo) which is unacceptable.

Hello Folks,

Why is CBS HD on Comcast available in some areas of the country and not in others? I live in the Metropolitan Detroit area and we currently do not receive CBS HD. I see in the above post that this particular Comcast subscriber receives CBS HD. Does anyone have any information about this?

Have a great day!!!

gammite

Just got my DCT5100 box on Friday and am disappointed with Analog (1-99) signal like many others. 1-99 is grainy and fuzzy. PQ is better on digital channels. I called Comcast to ask them about this and they said this should not happen and a tech can come out to fix?

Is this true. Can a tech improve PQ on channels 1-99 by adjusting something in the box?

Gammite,
The short answer is that local CBS stations that are actually owned by CBS have not signed agreements with Comcast. (You can do a search and find a lot of info about this on this board.)

In Nashville, our affiliate is not owned by CBS, so they were free to strike a deal with Comcast.

geckojb,
I don't think so. A firmware upgrade is in order, but even so Garbage-In, Garbage-Out applies.

I'm having my 5100 installed by Comcast this Friday 1/24. As a temporary fix for the PQ on channels 1-99, I intend to split the incoming cable thru my Mondial Magic Splitter. I'll run one cable output to the 5100, and the other directly into the back of my Samsung dlp. That way, I believe I can receive analog cable via the tuner in my Samsung, without the 5100 in the loop. Right?

mgold1999,
You don't have to use a splitter, the 5100 has an "RF pass-through."

How good is this pass-through? Does it have to be turned on in the Menu?

Yes, you turn it on in the menu. I don't use it so I can't comment on the quality. I expect the analog channels to look like crap, and so I don't bother trying to eak out a little better crap. GIGO ;-)

Originally posted by VideoFreek
curtisb;

Yes, Comcast installed my 5100 box about a week ago, and also installed an amplifier on the line coming into my house, since the signal levels at my box were a bit low, especially in the HD-channel frequencies. The tech remarked that the amp needs to be 2-way compatible in order to enable PPV, VOD, etc. Another item of note, he connected the line to my cable modem to a splitter upstream of the amp; he stated that amps are not compatible with cable modems, though I'm not sure why.

Performance has been OK; some nights the HD reception is nearly perfect and on others there is a lot of video breakup and audio dropouts. I suspect this is due to issues in Comcast's lines and not in my house, since the signal strength at my box is good.

CATV Amplifiers should only be used where there are multiple TV's or excepetionally long cable runs. A rule of thumb would be any more than 4 cable outlets connected to one incoming cable line MAY possibly need an amp. The technical aspects of CATV limits how much signal (dbmv) CATV providers can send to a home, GENERALLY those numbers can support up to 4 lines. Because every street, house, landscape, ect. is different this can vary. If the cable itself is physically in good condition an amplifier can be used. If there is something wrong with the cable or the connectors will create noise, which an amplifier, will........well amplify.

Amplifiers cannot FIX anything, they only increase the amount of signal they are given whether good or bad.

Newer 2-way CATV amplifiers, have the ability to PASS the lower frequency return path signals, examples, IPPV, VOD, Cable Modems, & general communications between DCT & controller. This means a 2-way amplifier DOES NOT amplify the return signal it only allows it to pass through. ( see more below)

Everything except Cable modems work on a signal "burst". When a movie is ordered through IPPV it sends out a one time "burst" of signal of up to 60db. The Cable modem on the other hand is constantly communicating with the head-end. A 2-way amp, WILL work with a cable modem, but since cable modems are a bit more tempermental when it comes to return signal levels the cable provider will generally have their installers trained to put the modem Before the amp. Generally the 2-way amps will increase the forward signal level anywhere from 5-20 dbmv @ 50-1000mhz, but they will decrease the return signal level 1-3 dbmv from 5-50mhz which is where all of the return signals are being sent. So it will work and there are many other factors involved in getting a good return signal from any 2-way CATV device, but lets just say Cable modems are more dependant on return signal than forward signal level.

Originally posted by geckojb
Just got my DCT5100 box on Friday and am disappointed with Analog (1-99) signal like many others. 1-99 is grainy and fuzzy. PQ is better on digital channels. I called Comcast to ask them about this and they said this should not happen and a tech can come out to fix?

Is this true. Can a tech improve PQ on channels 1-99 by adjusting something in the box?

A tech can improve the pictures on 1-99 in MOST cases, but only if there is a problem with 1-99 coming to your home. BUT, In your case & and anyone else with a 5100, I'm assuming the PQ was OK before you had the 5100 installed. A tech WILL NOT be able to fix something in this box, this can only be done by firmware.

Speaking of firmware, the fix for Analog 1-99 on the 5100's should be ready first week of February, I can only comment for the philly region specifically S. Jersey. I haven't seen it, nor do I know the exact date of its release but its coming......

I have a DCT2228 right now and was wondering if getting the 5100 would make channel changes faster? They are annoyingly slow. I just recently changed to digital cable and was used the the quick channel changes on my TV. I also miss the PIP. I have a panasonic 32" with component input but I think it only does 480i. Will the PQ be improved any over the 2228? I'm thinking about getting a HDTV projector but that's a story for another forum category :)

Originally posted by sillygoose
I have a DCT2228 right now and was wondering if getting the 5100 would make channel changes faster? They are annoyingly slow. I just recently changed to digital cable and was used the the quick channel changes on my TV. I also miss the PIP. I have a panasonic 32" with component input but I think it only does 480i. Will the PQ be improved any over the 2228? I'm thinking about getting a HDTV projector but that's a story for another forum category :)

In most Comcast areas the 5100's are reserved for HDTV customers only, because of the expense and limited availability. The 5100 does change channels faster.

Just because you got Digital cable doesn't mean you should have lost PIP. PIP should work easily depending on setup.

Most likely, the component input on your TV is for DVD use.

The Firmware upgrade is for 5100's only the 2000 series DCT shouldn't have any PQ problems.

Originally posted by joe12south
geckojb,
I don't think so. A firmware upgrade is in order, but even so Garbage-In, Garbage-Out applies.

If it was "Garbage-In" than a "firmware upgrade", wouldn't fix anything, now would it.

I'm trying to understand what you are expecting from analog Television signals. My Analog PQ from my OTA antenna looks exactly like the PQ from my CATV provider. I wonder why? Its more like Garbage-OUT of the Broadcasters, Garbage-IN to CATV Head-end, Modulated Garbage-OUT to subscribers, ect.

I meant that standard NTSC video is of poor quality, and nothing much is going to change that. The better the display, the more noticable it is how bad SD TV is.

Originally posted by miatasm
In most Comcast areas the 5100's are reserved for HDTV customers only, because of the expense and limited availability. The 5100 does change channels faster.

Just because you got Digital cable doesn't mean you should have lost PIP. PIP should work easily depending on setup.

Most likely, the component input on your TV is for DVD use.

The Firmware upgrade is for 5100's only the 2000 series DCT shouldn't have any PQ problems.

Reserved for HDTV customers as in you have to pay more or they won't hook it up to a non-HDTV? The 5100 will do 480i on the component outputs right?

I lost the ability to use the 2-tuner PIP on the TV of course I could split the cable and get part of it back or get a second STB but all of those options are a lot more complicated than the original setup, of course now I have a ton more channels.

No the PQ on the 2000 series seems ok I was just wondering if it would be any better with the 5100 on the components or even the S-video.

Originally posted by sillygoose
Reserved for HDTV customers as in you have to pay more or they won't hook it up to a non-HDTV? The 5100 will do 480i on the component outputs right?

I lost the ability to use the 2-tuner PIP on the TV of course I could split the cable and get part of it back or get a second STB but all of those options are a lot more complicated than the original setup, of course now I have a ton more channels.

No the PQ on the 2000 series seems ok I was just wondering if it would be any better with the 5100 on the components or even the S-video.

Currently Comcast customers, @ least in my region, do not pay anything extra for HDTV through cable, but you do have to subscribe to Digital Cable.

The 5100 does pass through 480i on the component outputs.....but again Comcast has a limited numbers of 5100's, so if they start giving them out to anyone and everyone they may have customers with HDTV's who cannot get HDTV. So for now only customers with HDTV's can get a 5100.

So you didn't lose PIP, just have to reconfigure your cabling a little.

No the PQ wouldn't be better, and if you check back to the top of this page you can see that PQ on analog channels is one of the big concerns with this box. Hopefully fixed by the firmware in Feb.