Originally posted by joe12south
I meant that standard NTSC video is of poor quality, and nothing much is going to change that. The better the display, the more noticable it is how bad SD TV is.

Isn't that the worst....you buy a kick ass TV so you can watch beautiful High - Definition TV......but it makes everything else look like crap. Its a visious cycle.....

Originally posted by miatasm
Isn't that the worst....you buy a kick ass TV so you can watch beautiful High - Definition TV......but it makes everything else look like crap. Its a visious cycle.....
I have to (somewhat) disagree. My HDTV makes analog 1-99 look better than it does on a lesser TV. However, on my HDTV, I have something much better that I'm constantly comparing the SD to, so I become disatisfied. Absent the comparison, I'd be saying it's the "best picture I've ever seen." However, first DVD made us pickier, and now HD makes what would have been a great picture 5 years ago unacceptable.

miatasm, re the amplifier discussion: one of my two 5100s seems to suffer from signal strength problems. It will block up, pixelate, freeze, etc., when my other 5100 is doing fine. Do you think I should get a bi-directional amplifier and install it, or call Comcast. The problem I have with Comcast service is that they usually say that if I can't replicate the problem when they're at my home, then there's nothing they can do. I understand their issues, but OTOH, I'm probably not calling them just because I have nothing else to do with my time :) The signal strength seems to be fine 70-80% of the time, but I have a nightmare that during the Super Bowl, with some new-to-HD friends watching my 110" screen, I'm going to have to say "let's all go upstairs to my bedroom, where we can crowd around my bedroom TV, which should have a better picture." Not a way to win friends and influence people :)

Claude

Originally posted by ClaudeD
I have to (somewhat) disagree. My HDTV makes analog 1-99 look better than it does on a lesser TV. However, on my HDTV, I have something much better that I'm constantly comparing the SD to, so I become disatisfied. Absent the comparison, I'd be saying it's the "best picture I've ever seen." However, first DVD made us pickier, and now HD makes what would have been a great picture 5 years ago unacceptable.

miatasm, re the amplifier discussion: one of my two 5100s seems to suffer from signal strength problems. It will block up, pixelate, freeze, etc., when my other 5100 is doing fine. Do you think I should get a bi-directional amplifier and install it, or call Comcast. The problem I have with Comcast service is that they usually say that if I can't replicate the problem when they're at my home, then there's nothing they can do. I understand their issues, but OTOH, I'm probably not calling them just because I have nothing else to do with my time :) The signal strength seems to be fine 70-80% of the time, but I have a nightmare that during the Super Bowl, with some new-to-HD friends watching my 110" screen, I'm going to have to say "let's all go upstairs to my bedroom, where we can crowd around my bedroom TV, which should have a better picture." Not a way to win friends and influence people :)

Claude

Claude PM me with the specifics of your cable runs. And I can probably ball park whether or not you need an amplifier.

Specifics means:

Cable size (rg6, rg11, ect.) & length from street to house (approx.) feet
Splitters & Size of splitters (2-way, 3-way, 4-way, ect.)
Length of Cable runs in the house & size of cable.

It should read somthing like this (my house):

-125' RG11 Drop to 3-way splitter
-3 ft RG6 off One leg (3.5 loss) to DCT 5100, 3 ft RG6 off one leg to Cable Modem, 3 ft RG6 off last leg to Amp
-From Amp to 8-way splitter to rest on TV's via 25-50ft RG6

Originally posted by miatasm
Claude PM me with the specifics of your cable runs. And I can probably ball park whether or not you need an amplifier.

Specifics means:

Cable size (rg6, rg11, ect.) & length from street to house (approx.) feet
Splitters & Size of splitters (2-way, 3-way, 4-way, ect.)
Length of Cable runs in the house & size of cable.

It should read somthing like this (my house):

-125' RG11 Drop to 3-way splitter
-3 ft RG6 off One leg (3.5 loss) to DCT 5100, 3 ft RG6 off one leg to Cable Modem, 3 ft RG6 off last leg to Amp
-From Amp to 8-way splitter to rest on TV's via 25-50ft RG6
Thanks miatasm,

For those of us who don't know, is there an easily determined difference between the cable types (rg6, rg11, etc.). Thickness, marking, etc?

I actually have two drops to the house; the one that works is closer to the street (naturally). Figuring this out will require going into the (very unfinished) basement; I'll PM you when I get a chance to do it.

BTW, the not-so-good cable has a Mondial Magic box on it to keep the ground difference from causing rolling bars on my screen. Is this perhaps part of my problem? If I remove it, I get really bothersome rolling bars, apparently (according to someone who knows more than I do about it), this is because the ground for the cable is different than the ground for the electrical outlets.

Originally posted by ClaudeD
Thanks miatasm,

For those of us who don't know, is there an easily determined difference between the cable types (rg6, rg11, etc.). Thickness, marking, etc?

I actually have two drops to the house; the one that works is closer to the street (naturally). Figuring this out will require going into the (very unfinished) basement; I'll PM you when I get a chance to do it.

BTW, the not-so-good cable has a Mondial Magic box on it to keep the ground difference from causing rolling bars on my screen. Is this perhaps part of my problem? If I remove it, I get really bothersome rolling bars, apparently (according to someone who knows more than I do about it), this is because the ground for the cable is different than the ground for the electrical outlets.

The difference between rg11, rg6, rg59 is strictly size. 59 & 6 can sometimes be confused RG11 is about 2x the size of rg59 or rg6. In most cases it will be printed directly on the cables' jacket. Most likely unless you are over 150' or so from the street Cable connection all of your cables will be RG6 or RG59 (hopefully RG6 throughout). RG11 is reserved for customers that are extremely far away from the cable system, usually 150'-300'.

I don't know much about the Mondial Magic Box. Is there a link to this thing anywhere on the web.....I'll just go look for it anyway.....But it sounds like the rolling bars you are seeing are what WE call "hum" bars. This is electrical interference. 1 bar is 60hz, 2 bars are 120hz. These can be caused by a number of things, but the most common cause are dimmer switches. Because they dim the lights with resistance it creates some odd voltages going thru neutral. I don't know the exact technical explaination, maybe someone else will know....Other causes could be whats called Hot Chassis on the TV, where there is a breakdown in the TV or VCR that causes AC voltage to get on to the Coaxial Cable connection.

Your cable should be grounded using NEC specs. Power neutral, Cold water pipe, & meter housing or nut are acceptable ground sources for CATV.

Originally posted by miatasm
Your cable should be grounded using NEC specs. Power neutral, Cold water pipe, & meter housing or nut are acceptable ground sources for CATV.

I think my Comcast cable is grounded to the cold water pipe. That's not good enough? Does it matter that the run to my house from the pole is buried?

So whats the latest news???

I thought comcast was going to make an announcement mid january regarding new programming...

ANYONE???

Originally posted by CKarras
I think my Comcast cable is grounded to the cold water pipe. That's not good enough? Does it matter that the run to my house from the pole is buried?

Cold Water is OK. I think it was just the way that I wrote it out. And no your cable being Underground doesn't matter.

For the RF Bypass, doesn't the box have to have the module attached to the back. I enabled this in the menu and the bypass does not work. If there is a trick to enabling could someone point it out?

Is anyone able to get the Motorola 5100 to output 768p instead of 720p for Plasma displays? Right now my 503CMX does a pretty bad job scaling from 720p -> 768p. I would like for it to display 720p natively or use 768p from the Motorola box.

Originally posted by mozumder
Is anyone able to get the Motorola 5100 to output 768p instead of 720p for Plasma displays? Right now my 503CMX does a pretty bad job scaling from 720p -> 768p. I would like for it to display 720p natively or use 768p from the Motorola box.

-bobby

No the 5100 does not and will not output 768p. It will only do the standard formats. An external scaler could get 768p to the Display.

>Is anyone able to get the Motorola 5100 to output 768p instead of 720p for Plasma displays? Right now my 503CMX does a pretty bad job scaling from 720p -> 768p. I would like for it to display 720p natively or use 768p from the Motorola box.

Bobby....I believe the Motorola 5100 can only do the 720p and not 768p. My Pioneer Pro-800 Plasma says 750p on the display when I have the 5100 set at 720p. The display either scales up from 720 or down from 1080 as I understand how all this works. How does 1080i look when you set your box to 1080i? After talking to the Pioneer tech about this scaling and how to set the box up, he said I would probably not tell any difference in either setting. But, the 720p setting should be the better setting for viewing most TV programming. My display is 1024 X 768, what is your 503CMX?

Howard

Originally posted by salvador_dali
For the RF Bypass, doesn't the box have to have the module attached to the back. I enabled this in the menu and the bypass does not work. If there is a trick to enabling could someone point it out?

RF Bypass doesn't work on the 5100. If you are brave, you can try to remove the silver box attached to the Back of the 5100. If this is like any other DCT that silver box is just a jumper for the RF ports used for RF bypass. BUT DON"T BLAME ME IF YOU BREAK IT!!!!!!

Bobby,
That's not an option. 768p is not a standard resolution. How does you display handle going from 1080i to 768p ... that might look better.

My 503CMX is 1280x768 native resolution. The scaling from 1080i->768p looks very good, but from 720p->768p looks bad.

I am trying to get native resolution for ABC. I worry about it going from 720p->1080i->768p. That seems like too many conversions from me. I direct display of 720p i'm hoping would look better than 720p->1080i->768p.

>I worry about it going from 720p->1080i->768p.

Bobby...I don't think that scaling takes place in that manner, but I might be wrong. As it was explained to me by the Pioneer Tech, the scaling would take place from the 720p to 768. If it is a 1080i format, then scaling is done down to the 768 resolution. You might want to check with the Pioneer people on that....Possibly there is a problem if you say your picture is bad.

Howard

Actually, Howard his concern is that ABC broadcasts in 720P. So the 5100 would convert 720P to 1080i and then the Pioneer would convert it to 768P if I read it properly... OF course I could be very wrong so YMMV.

Eric

Eric...Not sure of that.

I am not sure that the 5100 does that. You can change the output to 720p, 480p, 480i, and 1080i. I just went into the setup and looked at it. Does this make any more sense?

Howard

I am in the Seattle/Everett area & have the 5100 with no updates. I have been calling Comcast and getting no answers regarding questions on the updates. additional HD programing, red push, etc. I have never run into a bunch of "no nothings" in my life! Has anyone had any success getting thru to someone who has some knowledge on th subject? Even the service dept has the same dumb answers! HELP

Hello all,

I hope maybe you can help. I got the Comcast HDTV install last night here in Odenton, MD. I have a Sony TV :

Sony 43" Rear-Projection HDTV Monitor with 16:9 Enhanced Mode
Model: KP-43HT20

Enjoy the amazing picture provided by 1080i capability, V-compression and DRC. Digital Reality Creation (DRC) circuit upgrades standard TV signals (480i) to near-HD quality (480p or 960i).

I have thr red, Green, Blue component cables going from the Motorola 5100 to the Sony plus the 2 audio cables. The only HD channels I have are ABC, NBC, HBO and Showtime. 3/4 show the HD in "letter-box"...meaning full side-to-side but black bars top and bottom. on ABCHD howere I have black bars on all 4 sides????

My Motorola says I have S/W 50.00-1078, Firmware of 00, Model DCT. Soulds like I need a software upgrade?? If so...how do I get it???

My non-HD channels seem worse then when I just had digital cable.

I also need some help with getting my Sony TV remote to control the Motorola 5100 box. I can't find the 3-digit code to do that. Anyone have it? I tried Sony's site with no luck.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!!! I'm really a newbie at this. Thanks.

Bez , I live right around the corner from you and you have the newest firmware update. The only thing you need to do is leave your box plugged in and hooked to cable and it will update automatically.
As far as viewing non HDTV material use an Svideo cable from the box to another input on the TV . You will also have to split your audio into both inputs on the TV.
Like you I havnt been able to get my sony remote to work with the cable box. However search farther back in this thread and Miatism posted a code that will allow your Cable remote to adjust your Tv's volume not the 5100's.

Hi all,

I new to HDTV (and really digging it) but do have a knack for some things.

Bez, I got my Sony remote to do some very basic control over the motorola box by...

First, see what code the cheesy Comcast remote was programmed with to control the motorola box. By hitting (on the comcast remote)

* [CABLE]

* [SETUP]

* 9 9 0

* Press 1 and count the blinks (no blinks=0), press 2 and count, press 3 and count. My code was 476 (4 blinks on 1, seven on 2, six on three) which equates to Jerrold box on the remote's instruction sheet. I translated that to code 201 (the first jerold entry) on my sony remote. Use the Sony instructions to program in the first Jerold listing. That got me the number keys, enter, CH up/down, and Jump (=last on comcast remote). Not great but manageable. Hope this helps.

I haven't seen any synch problems but have noticed some color shifts on the component inputs. SD seems slightly green, 1080i seems a bit red... it could be my imagination or how the TV deals with different resolutions slightly differently (not ISF'd).

My 0-99 chanels look cruddy (lots of noise magnified by the sharper tv), but it's as bad with the tv tuner as with the 5100 so It's just the cable feed... I think.

Just wanted to thank all of you because what I know about HDTV, I learned here.

Oh, one warning to people having comcast out to set them up. I have a panamax line conditioner (with cable protection as well) and the installer was about to bypass the panamax. Having had surge damage in the past, I politely made my point about having all my AV equipment protected. It took a bit but he saw my point and everything worked great... he even had component cables. I was all ready to pull them off the DVD player to test the setup but didn't have to. Anyway, the moral is that if you do have a line conditioner or cable surge supressor, make sure they use it. I'm pretty sure he didn't know what that big black thing was, but he was cool enough to accept that now knowing isn't a bad thing as long as you give it a fair chance.

Later all,

Peter
Now if we could only get more HD content.

3/4 show the HD in "letter-box"...meaning full side-to-side but black bars top and bottom. on ABCHD howere I have black bars on all 4 sides????

HBO is showing the movie at it's original aspect ratio, which isn't necessarily the same as your display. The Sopranos, which is filmed at the same aspect ratio (16:9) will completely fill the screen. Same thing with ABC - their HD programming is 16:9 but sometimes they'll show a movie that might be a wider aspect ratio and you'll get an image that is "letterboxed."

Soulds like I need a software upgrade?? If so...how do I get it???
You can't do anything but wait for Comcast to "push" and upgrade down to your box.

My non-HD channels seem worse then when I just had digital cable.
The better quality of component cables will reveal more deficiencies in Standard definition programming.

I just figured out that my TV actually does 480p. I thought it was only able to do 480i but then I was wondering why it had component inputs. Would things look much better with the 5100 set to 480p versus the DCT2000 series I'm using now? The 5100 would also provide digital sound for surround sound correct?

Originally posted by Bez513
Hello all,

I hope maybe you can help. I got the Comcast HDTV install last night here in Odenton, MD. I have a Sony TV :

Sony 43" Rear-Projection HDTV Monitor with 16:9 Enhanced Mode
Model: KP-43HT20

Enjoy the amazing picture provided by 1080i capability, V-compression and DRC. Digital Reality Creation (DRC) circuit upgrades standard TV signals (480i) to near-HD quality (480p or 960i).

I have thr red, Green, Blue component cables going from the Motorola 5100 to the Sony plus the 2 audio cables. The only HD channels I have are ABC, NBC, HBO and Showtime. 3/4 show the HD in "letter-box"...meaning full side-to-side but black bars top and bottom. on ABCHD howere I have black bars on all 4 sides????

My Motorola says I have S/W 50.00-1078, Firmware of 00, Model DCT. Soulds like I need a software upgrade?? If so...how do I get it???

My non-HD channels seem worse then when I just had digital cable.

I also need some help with getting my Sony TV remote to control the Motorola 5100 box. I can't find the 3-digit code to do that. Anyone have it? I tried Sony's site with no luck.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!!! I'm really a newbie at this. Thanks.

If I'm not mistaken your TV is a 4:3 TV. When watching a Non-HD program on an HD channel (178, 179, 180, 181, ect.) you will have black bars on all 4 sides of the program. The bars on the top are there because you TV is 4:3 format and the boxes' output is 1080i or 720p on those channels regaurdless of programming. The bars on the sides are because the program you are watching at that time is not being broadcast in HD. ABC doesn't have a lot of programming on in HD just a couple Primetime shows throughout the week. NBC at least has Jay Leno on every week night, plus ER and some others, HBO & SHO I'd say 75% is in HD.

Goto TitanTV.com (http://www.titantv.com) -- They have listings for all of the current days HD programs. And if you register you can see at least a couple days in advance.

Sony remotes will only be able to control a couple of DCT5100 functions, but usually NOT the Guide & Menu fuctions. Your best bet is to program the comcast remote by hitting "TV" --> Press & Hold "setup" (light flashes 2x) --> then Type 0-0-0....This should allow control of your TV Volume and Power when the remote is in "Cable" mode.

Look back through the posts here there are many mentions of the problems with 1-99 channel PQ. There is a fix in the works by Motorola, be patient. Your box should have the newest firmware without you doing anything. But if you haven't got it yet, check with other users on this board in your area to see if they got theirs, if they did. I would call the local office & inquire about it. The best way to tell would be to Power the box off and press "menu" this should bring up a Setup menu that reads like this:

TV Type:
Y,Pb,Pr:
480 Override:

Closed caption:

If it doesn't your box hasn't been upgraded.

Hello,

To simplify things for my wife, she just uses the RF output on the box but there doesn't seem to be any OSD for it. Is this a menu option I need to set? Its there and working just fine on the component outs, just not the RF out.

I apologize in advance if this has already been brought up, but theres a lot of pages to go through on this thread! :eek:

thanks in advance
Kevin

Originally posted by Kevin Wood
Hello,

To simplify things for my wife, she just uses the RF output on the box but there doesn't seem to be any OSD for it. Is this a menu option I need to set? Its there and working just fine on the component outs, just not the RF out.

I apologize in advance if this has already been brought up, but theres a lot of pages to go through on this thread! :eek:

thanks in advance
Kevin

if you switch output to 480i you will get OSD on channel 3/4 - also on the s-video output

. I just figured out that my TV actually does 480p. I thought it was only able to do 480i but then I was wondering why it had component inputs. Would things look much better with the 5100 set to 480p versus the DCT2000 series I'm using now? The 5100 would also provide digital sound for surround sound correct?
I'm not sure what TV you have but most Tv's will lock into full mode when fed a 480p or above signal. If you set it to 480p you would lose stretch modes on your TV.
The 5100 has two digital outputs for sound one optical and one spdif. So yes you would get dolby digital 5.1 if it was broadcast.

Originally posted by fore.aces
I am in the Seattle/Everett area & have the 5100 with no updates. I have been calling Comcast and getting no answers regarding questions on the updates. additional HD programing, red push, etc. I have never run into a bunch of "no nothings" in my life! Has anyone had any success getting thru to someone who has some knowledge on th subject? Even the service dept has the same dumb answers! HELP

I know exactly what you mean. I'm in Redmond and calling Comcast/AT&T is a big honkin waste of time. The poor saps on the phone don't know a damn thing.

A friend called them about HDTV and they said (NOT making this up) "sir, an HDTV is a kind of TELEVISION, we don't sell TELEVISIONS. If you want an one you'll need to go to a store and buy one." At that time AT&T was already pimping their pathetic HD offerings on the radio and had a display in the local magnolia HiFi for the DCT5100.

I was surprised they didn't get online in time for the superbowl.

I'm certinaly sick of waiting. It's getting very close to 47' telescoping mast atempt time along with ATSC tuner box and Comcast can take this POS 5100.

Keith Wood,

Set the 4:3 Override to 480i, you will then get the OSD via RF, S-Video and composite.

For today's big game:

The game is being broadcast in 720p. My stepfather's JVC 56 inch HDTV upconverts everything to 1080i. I know the Moto 5100 will upconvert the 720p signal to 1080i, but would I expect to get a better signal if I reconfigure the Moto for 720p output and just rely on the JVC scaler? I would only do this for this game.

Which brings me to another point: it would be nice if the Moto could just pass all high def signals (1080i, 720p, 480p) as native mode and let an external scaler handle the rest, for people who have one.

Rick,
It's hard to know which would have the better scaler. The 5100 scaler seems to be pretty good, IMHO.

Originally posted by Thomas1
.
I'm not sure what TV you have but most Tv's will lock into full mode when fed a 480p or above signal. If you set it to 480p you would lose stretch modes on your TV.
The 5100 has two digital outputs for sound one optical and one spdif. So yes you would get dolby digital 5.1 if it was broadcast.

Actually most TV's will lock on full mode when anything OTHER THAN 480p or 480i or present. Its when 720 or 1080 are present that most TVs cannot modify the picture. With some exceptions like certain Mitsu, Hitachi's, ect (I'm sure there are more), that allow you to at least zoom or expand 720 or 1080 to get rid of black bars. Since 480p is the same output as a Progreesive scan DVD player, most TV's will allow modification of the aspect.

mjk

just wanted to thank you for posting and replying to mine and so many of the other questions, much appreciated. BTW the RF Bypass was a cinch.

How is the quality of the RF bypass? Anything noticeably different from a direct connection?

the game looked good, but the grass had pixelation for me..


anyone else?

the long shots looked very bad..

still, was in my glory..=)

I ended up setting the Moto 5100 for 720p output and letting the scaler in the JVC RPTV handle the conversion. Truth be told, I couldn't really tell the difference between it and the scaler in the Moto box.

On the game:

One thing that was annoying was the pixelation in the grass for the standard wide field shots that normally cover a play. Only this camera seemed to suffer from this kind of artifacting. The other HD cameras seemed to be immune from this problem.

A real problem child for ABC was the SD hand held field cameras. They weren't great to watch in the CBS AFC Championship game, but they were downright awful to watch in this game. The motion artifacts were all but criminal to watch for a game like this. Maybe the upconversion of these cameras to 720p still isn't ready for prime time.

But there were great things about the game. ABC ended up doing a lot of shots that were different for HDTV audiences versus the standard definition feed that most people saw. It looked like ABC's HD director was trying to make the most of the new technology. Also, some commercials were even in HD, mostly ads for the upcoming movies (Matrix, Hulk, Daredevil, etc).

One thing for sure: sports was meant to be watched in HD. It's was so obvious to everyone at our party. This game alone will sell a lot of HDTVs for people who had a chance to see it at someone's house who was already hooked up.

I'm normally pretty sanguine about motion artifacts, but I thought I was watching a science fiction flick when the SD cameras were upconverted to 720p. People's mouths and eyes became alien when they moved. I have never seen such crummy deinterlacing, not on the cheapest DVD player.

I liked the real 720p quite a bit; I think I prefer it to 1080i.

Claude

I have a Toshiba 57HDX82 and the Motorola 5100. Initially I had the 5100 set for 720p since the Tosh is supposed to handle 720p. During the game I and several of my guests noticed that the clock/score box at the top of the screen was scrolled up so that you couldn't see the time, you could read the score. During a break I reset the 5100 for 1080i and lo and behold the clock/score box was completely on the screen. Any ideas why?

Chris H.

The 5100 on my 57H81 was set to 1080i and I still could not see the top of the score box. I chalked it up to an error from ABC.

Even though that was a bit inconvenient I thought that the game was spectacular. For a first effort ABC seems to have made a strong commitment "to get it right." I could nit pick and talk about various things that were so-so about the broadcast, but all in all I was one happy camper. I was completely surprised at the HD commercials and now I plan on getting an HD recorder. (Maybe Comcast will give us the HD recorder box..............)

I just wish I could get all my signals this good. I am not sure what you all think, but the Alias HD broadcast sucked in comparison to the game. After I saw the Alias feed I just taped it from the analog feed and plan to watch it later.

I still loved the game feed though. And I can not wait for better feeds and ESPN HD. All my friends were impressed by that commerical.

Anyway, hopefully the suits took notice and will learn from this broadcast. If they continue to improve on this and make HD do what was promised there would be no problem with meeting that 2006 deadline.

Enjoy your less than super bowl feeds,

gammite

For a first effort ABC seems to have made a strong commitment "to get it right."

This was not ABC's "first effort." They have plenty of experience dating back at least to 1999. There was no excuse for the second rate production values on the HD broadcast. I'm a staunch advocate of the 720p format, but CBS cleaned ABC's clock with their AFC championship coverage.

For clarification,

This was ABC's first REAL effort to broadcast a Super Bowl in HD. I believe that they did a good job (not excellent) broadcasting an almost clean HD feed. Considering the eyes of the world were on ABC during the game, I do not believe that they gave themselves a black eye.

Of course there are a number of things that need to be worked on. For instance, switching to SD for replays, minute focus issues, lip sync problems, etc. However, the game in HD was a success for ABC. It was immensely enjoyable to watch even though the game was a bust.

Everyone always likes to hop up and shout what was wrong with something. This used to be my M.O. as well. However, I have learned that just because there is a negative aspect about something does not make it all bad.

ABC has made some choices that bewilder many people. For example, the choice to go to 720p when the majority of broadcasters are in 1080i. There are a couple of others that are not necessary to mention here, but my point is that this is a learning process for all broadcasters. As they learn our HD will get better.

I enjoyed the broadcast and hope that ABC will learn from its mistakes to provide an excellent feed for the NBA finals and other HD content.

Just some thoughts,

gammite

As with all other Comcast customers in the Philadelphia area, I do not get CBS in Hi-Def. Therefore the SuperBowl was the first big sporting event I have ever seen in HD (other than a couple of horse races on NBC, which were nice). I had high expectations, and was not disappointed.

From what I have discerned from other threads, the 5100 appears to have worked flawlessly - I experienced no problems except those which were part of the ABC telecast. I was worried that there would be technical problems with Comcast, with the Motorola box, or with WPVI, but all worked properly. Hats off to all three. Thanks to ABC also, because the HD was miles ahead of the SD, even if there were some problems.

We had a house full of guests, most of whom have Comcast cable, and so we used the occasion to make a sales pitch for them to buy HDTVs. They were all impressed with the picture quality.

If you saw the ESPN-HD commercial, then you recall a plea to call your cable company. I suppose we do not need to bother, since Comcast has already announced that it will be carrying ESPN-HD.

The SB really got us psyched for Comcast sportsnet in HD, and ESPN-HD. Everyone got 2/15 on their calendar?

SevenFeet...or Others...Question...>I know the Moto 5100 will upconvert the 720p signal to 1080i, but would I expect to get a better signal if I reconfigure the Moto for 720p output and just rely on the JVC scaler?

I might be a little confused with the upconvert process etc. with this issue. I set the Motorola 5100 to 720p, my Pioneer Plasma Elite can display from 480, 720p, 1080i and 1080p so says the book. Was I seeing 720p from the 5100 or something else like maybe 1080i. The resolution of the Plasma is 1024 X 768. Any help here would be appreciated. BTW, the game looked awsome to me in HD.

Howard

Howard, your plasma is a 720 panel so if you set your box to 720p, you were watching native 720p on your plasma. I am a plasama owner also, namely a Panasonic, and have seen many 1080i football games on CBS and HD Net and while the SB looked good, it was nowhere near as sharp and clear as the 1080i broadcasts I have seen. I also thought that the CBS AFC games had better color as well.

Originally posted by rob_0
If you saw the ESPN-HD commercial, then you recall a plea to call your cable company. I suppose we do not need to bother, since Comcast has already announced that it will be carrying ESPN-HD.

Say what? Could you or somebody else point me to the press release? I hadn't heard anything official yet.

Hey JWhip, since I know you'll respond to it anyway and we're talking about this same issue in another thread, am I wrong or has there been no official announcement that Comcast will carry ESPN-HD yet?

JWhip...>your plasma is a 720 panel, you said.

What makes my Plasma a 720 panel anyway? I might be missing something but I thought it would format to either of the formats for HDTV from the 480-1080p.

Howard

Originally posted by Howard82
JWhip...>your plasma is a 720 panel, you said.

What makes my Plasma a 720 panel anyway? I might be missing something but I thought it would format to either of the formats for HDTV from the 480-1080p.

Howard

Hey Howard,

I think he means that the native resolution of your display is 720, hence your 1024 x 768 resolution will not have to do much if any scaling....Which I think we both agree your PDP & most PDP's do a very good job at scaling any feed (720p, 1080i) to fit your TV's resolution. But I do believe you are correct that in your case having your 5100 set to 720p makes more sense. But since the only broadcaster using 720 is ABC the best bet is to set the 5100 to 1080i and let your Pio do the scaling. I didn't see any difference in switching back & forth from 1080 & 720, and my EDTV Panny has to scale down to 480. Set it to 1080i and forget it I would say. See you on Sunday, Looks like its going to be nice.

>Set it to 1080i and forget it I would say.

Ok Carl, I was just trying to get it straight in my mind what makes a display native to a particular format. Like JWhip was saying, my Pioneer is a 720 panel and I was just curious what makes it that way? I noticed by selecting 720p that I could see the time clock on the game last night and didn't see much of it in 1080i.

I figure also that if the STB was set to 720p and a broadcast was sent at 1080i then there would be less scaling going on. So you say leave the box set at 1080i and forget it....just like Ron Popei or something like that on those infomercials. See you on the road Sunday.

Howard

Ever since switching from the sidecar to the 5100, I notice that many HBO-HD movies seem to have a background fuzziness or snow-like artifact when using component inputs, but when I switch to s-video input, it appears clearer/sharper (or at least this graininess goes away). ABC, NBC and WHYY/PBS seem to have crisper pictures on HD. Anyone else have similar findings or comments?

I have noticed that aside from the SB the regular ABC 720p feeds (ALIAS, The Practice, ect.) are just OK as compared to CBS & NBC's programming. This was readily apparent on the "ALIAS" broadcast last night directly after the SB. It looked pretty bad, about as good as the Fox Widescreen EDTV crap. Is this because of the game actually being taped with HD cameras, and the TV shows are not. I was also slightly annoyed at the focusing problem of the HD feed during the SB.

I watched all 3 AFC Championship Games that CBS had, I watch 90% of the HD programming that CBS has to offer and they all seem to look superior to what ABC is doing. Does this have anything to do with the 720/1080 differences?

Originally posted by miatasm
I have noticed that aside from the SB the regular ABC 720p feeds (ALIAS, The Practice, ect.) are just OK as compared to CBS & NBC's programming. This was readily apparent on the "ALIAS" broadcast last night directly after the SB. It looked pretty bad, about as good as the Fox Widescreen EDTV crap. Is this because of the game actually being taped with HD cameras, and the TV shows are not. I was also slightly annoyed at the focusing problem of the HD feed during the SB.

I watched all 3 AFC Championship Games that CBS had, I watch 90% of the HD programming that CBS has to offer and they all seem to look superior to what ABC is doing. Does this have anything to do with the 720/1080 differences?

It has to do with the 720p/1080i differences and the ability of your hardware to display/convert both formats. In my case I strongly prefer 1080i because my display doesn't have a native 720p setting. My STBs all upconvert 720p to 1080i. It still makes for a nice picture on my set, but not nearly as nice as true 1080i. However, there are those with native 720p displays that will vow that is the better format because it isn't interlaced. I agree that CBS' football broadcasts were much, much better than ABC's Super Bowl telecast, but if you really want to tackle that subject, take a look at this thread. It's a wee bit long though.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=218476

Originally posted by Howard82
Like JWhip was saying, my Pioneer is a 720 panel and I was just curious what makes it that way?


Just to clarify, your panel is a 720p panel because the native pixel resolution most closely matches the 720p format. The panel doesn't have to scale much to show the 720p picture.

FWIW, my panel just being a 480p, I set the box to 720 for the game just because I thought it best to leave the feed in a progressive format the whole time, rather than converting to 1080i and then back down to 480p for no reason. Theoretically you couldn't help but lose something doing two extra steps of scaling, esspecially from progressive to interlaced and then back again. But, since there were a bunch of people over I didn't bother doing numerous comparisons, so I can't attest to a real-world difference in doing it either way.

As someone who has access to numerous displays, who can see 480p, 720p and 1080i all native here are some comments:

- The difference in native 720p or native 1080i is neglible at any normal viewing distance. All things being equal* they look equally sharp, the only real difference being the occassional interlacing artifact on 1080i (these seem rare.)

- "Cross-converting" 720p > 1080i or 1080i > 720p softens the image. This is pretty subjective, but I think 1080i going to 720p looks a little better than vice versa.

- Taking either 1080i or 720p down to 480p looks virtually identical. All the interlacing artifacts of 1080i become lost in the downsample.

- Scaling 480i or 480p to 720p tends to look a tad better than scaling it to 1080i. Scaled to 1080i it tends to look quite soft, but that's just my opinion.

* ABC's Superbowl coverage was not a good indicator of the inherent quality of 720p.

ckarras the rf bypass removes grain from the picture but it was not substantial.

1080i is better for animation and the PBS loop where motion is at a minimum. Downconversion is always easier versus doubling since the information is discarded instead of guessed at and then added makiing it less intense of an operation. Hence upconversion is a harder task for most devices outside of a broadcast realm. I wished the Moto had a native setting which sensed and left the signal at the original broadcast format.

ABC stll has not broadcast a great 720p signal. The Disney broadcasts are great to see but are not really the best test of the format. 720p has more image information per second and I would be interested in any new upcoming movies which ABC will send in the 720p format.

Originally posted by Howard82
SevenFeet...or Others...Question...>I know the Moto 5100 will upconvert the 720p signal to 1080i, but would I expect to get a better signal if I reconfigure the Moto for 720p output and just rely on the JVC scaler?


trouble here is that if you let the moto set to 720 it has dropped information and hands a now depreciated data set to your scaler. You need to open the "tap" fully to let your scaler decide how to run the show. With ABC it does not matter so much since they have not "progressed" far with a good 720p signal.

I didn't see any difference in switching back & forth from 1080 & 720, and my EDTV Panny has to scale down to 480. Set it to 1080i and forget it I would say. See you on Sunday, Looks like its going to be nice.

With Shrek on the Panny HD the 1080i is brighter and you can see Shreks skin contours versus the 720p setting on the Moto, dimmer and softer finer detailing. We need some good 720p feeds like Nascar to really see this format shine! Only 19 days more...hmm..

Just found channel 190. Looks like northern Jersey finally got HD PBS. :D Looks great!

Originally posted by salvador_dali
trouble here is that if you let the moto set to 720 it has dropped information and hands a now depreciated data set to your scaler. You need to open the "tap" fully to let your scaler decide how to run the show. With ABC it does not matter so much since they have not "progressed" far with a good 720p signal.

It has not dropped info on the 720p feed that it's getting on ABC broadcasts has it? Please clarify, because it seems like I'm missing a piece of info here. As I understand it, for the best PQ the box should output whatever the feed it's getting is, and thus eliminating all need for scaling by the box...

Originally posted by salvador_dali
trouble here is that if you let the moto set to 720 it has dropped information and hands a now depreciated data set to your scaler. You need to open the "tap" fully to let your scaler decide how to run the show. With ABC it does not matter so much since they have not "progressed" far with a good 720p signal.

Not sure just what you mean here. If the game is broadcast in 720p, then if the Moto 5100 is set for 720p, I rely on the scaler in my JVC RPTV. If I set the Moto for 1080i, then I rely on the Moto for scaling and the JVC needs no extra conversion. Either way you are only scaling once...the question is which scaler do you like better. I saw no appreciable difference.

It would be nice to have a setting for "native" on the Moto box so that it will pass an unaltered signal to your display device, whatever that is. Some people have external scalers or TVs with superior scaler technology.

Originally posted by Tachy
Ever since switching from the sidecar to the 5100, I notice that many HBO-HD movies seem to have a background fuzziness or snow-like artifact when using component inputs, but when I switch to s-video input, it appears clearer/sharper (or at least this graininess goes away). ABC, NBC and WHYY/PBS seem to have crisper pictures on HD. Anyone else have similar findings or comments? :( :(

Yes I am on Baltimore Comcast with the 5100 and have the grainy background on HBO as well as Showtime HD. ABC and NBC also have the grain in solid color areas of the background or on a face. The technican that installed the 5100 from Comcast said that all of these boxes have this and they Comcast cannot get rid of it. The features are sharp due to the higher resolution but the grain is still there in backgound. This picture quality is nothing like what I have seen on Direct Satalite High Definition which is near perfect.

Is it the compression of cabel and the bandwith of the cabel that causes this and what is Comcast going to do about this. This is not what I am paying Comcast high def for. This is annoying and should be eleminated to give a true high definition picture.

Originally posted by drmag
:( :(

Yes I am on Baltimore Comcast with the 5100 and have the grainy background on HBO as well as Showtime HD. ABC and NBC also have the grain in solid color areas of the background or on a face. The technican that installed the 5100 from Comcast said that all of these boxes have this and they Comcast cannot get rid of it. The features are sharp due to the higher resolution but the grain is still there in backgound. This picture quality is nothing like what I have seen on Direct Satalite High Definition which is near perfect.

Is it the compression of cabel and the bandwith of the cabel that causes this and what is Comcast going to do about this. This is not what I am paying Comcast high def for. This is annoying and should be eleminated to give a true high definition picture.

Maybe it's your local providers because my HBO and SHO HD have been flawless. And I also have DirecTV, so I was able to do a comparison and saw no difference. Now I no longer get HBO and SHO from DirecTV.

Is it the compression of cabel and the bandwith of the cabel that causes this and what is Comcast going to do about this. This is not what I am paying Comcast high def for. This is annoying and should be eleminated to give a true high definition picture.
Cable offers (at least the possibility of) *more* bandwidth and *less* compression than satellite.
The "noise" is not inherent in the 5100 ... I have no such problems. I think the issue lays with your MSO.

anyone else not have any HD content on NBC in the philly area for the past week or so..

my screen is black and just says something like "programmnig will be back soon".. or something like that..

anyone?

Note on the philly digital thread said that it was back today.. No?

Did anybody ever get a fix to the remote problems after the firmware update to 2.40 from 2.14? I cannot change the channels by punching in numbers, only using the up and down buttons. What happens is the box recognizes the request for whatever number channel is punched in from the remote, but will not change the channel. THe box will only recognize the HDTV channels punched in. This happens when either 4:3 bypass is on or off, and bypass is set to 480i when on. Any help on this issue would be greatly appreciated.

P.S- I just got the firmware update last night. Could I possibly need another update? I see from this thread that some people have different software versions, but the same frimware version. (Comcast is my subscriber, in Philly)

I have a question regarding the Motorola 5100 when used with a Toshiba 42hdx82.

Specifically, which output setting should I choose on the 5100 (720P or 1080i )? In other words, does the 42HDX82 display 720P and 1080i data as received (i.e., in its native form) or does it display either 720P (where it converts 1080i data to 720p) or 1080i (where it converts 720p data to 1080i)?

If I set the Motorola 5100 output to 1080i, the 5100 converts the ABC signal to 1080i. If I set the Motorola 5100 output to 720p, the 5100 converts the NBC signal to 720P.

I want to know what the 42HDX82 displays in order to determine which setting to put the output of the Motorola 5100 on (i.e., 1080i or 720P) in order to avoid double converting.

For example assuming the 42HDX82 displays (not just accepts) 1080i, if I were to set the output on the Motorola to 720P, then my NBC signal would be converted from 1080i to 720p by the Motorola 5100 and then converted from 720P to 1080i by the 42HDX82.

Conversely, assuming the 42HDX82 displays 720P, if I were to set the output on the Motorola to 1080i, then my ABC signal would be converted from 720p to 1080i by the Motorola 5100 and then converted from 1080i to 720P by the 42HDX82.

If, however, the 42HDX82 displays both 1080i and 720P in their native form without converting (aka scaling), then I just need to choose which I watch more of 720p or 1080i channels; understanding that the other channels will be converted by the Motorola 5100.

To asutor....I took this information off a description of your HDTV...does this make sense to you? My question to you is what is the resolution of your TV....ex: 1024X768, 1270X720 etc...? These numbers as far as I know represent what the native resolution of your TV is. Also, this has been talked about quite a bit on these recent pages in the forum. It might clear things up for you.

"When connected to a separate HDTV receiver, the 42HDX82 can display high-definition TV in the common 1080i format. ABC's preferred HDTV format, 720p, gets converted to 1080i by the IDSC Pro converter."


Howard

Originally posted by Sevenfeet
Not sure just what you mean here. If the game is broadcast in 720p, then if the Moto 5100 is set for 720p, I rely on the scaler in my JVC RPTV. If I set the Moto for 1080i, then I rely on the Moto for scaling and the JVC needs no extra conversion. Either way you are only scaling once...the question is which scaler do you like better. I saw no appreciable difference.

It would be nice to have a setting for "native" on the Moto box so that it will pass an unaltered signal to your display device, whatever that is. Some people have external scalers or TVs with superior scaler technology.

I mean to say that for 1080i formats there is an amalgamation of the information that renders it to 768 for the plasmas. If you set it to 720 for a 1080 then the plasma interpolates which is a worse type of rendering. For ABC at 720p I would agree the plasma is better off doing the scaling which in effect is the native setting for ABC's 720 format. Since they are the only channel to output 720 and they are not so hot at it right now IMHO setting the moto to 1080 is the best bet.

Originally posted by Felgar
It has not dropped info on the 720p feed that it's getting on ABC broadcasts has it? Please clarify, because it seems like I'm missing a piece of info here. As I understand it, for the best PQ the box should output whatever the feed it's getting is, and thus eliminating all need for scaling by the box...

Felgar I agree with you that on ABC the native setting should be sending everything through. I wanted to say that the majority of the HD broadcasting is at 1080 and this together with the scaling issues makes it better to leave the output at 1080i.

It appears to me that since my 5100 was installed (the week before the Super Bowl), the outputted picture seems darker than with the former standard cable box (DCT200?).
This seems especially true with the component cables (supplied by Comcast).
The non-HD channels all look better via the RF input, which I use for all non-HD viewing, but even that seems to me to be a bit darker than with the older box. Interestingly enough, the picture through the RF cable even looks better than via an s-video cable.

Has anyone else had the same observations?
Could it be the cables they supplied?

For what it's worth, I am using a Sony 53HS10, with the component cables going through Video 5, which has a 16:9 enhanced mode (locks in widescreen with 1080i input).

Frank

Frank,
It's not the cables. When the 5100 is outputing component it seems to set "black" at IRE 0 (correct for HD,) rather than IRE 7 (correct for NTSC.)

Adjust your display to suit. Unfortunately, if your other sources (like a DVD player) can't be set to IRE 0, then you'll have to either be able to save two settings on your display, or leave it adjusted at a good compromise between the two (what I ended-up doing.)

Originally posted by joe12south
Frank,
It's not the cables. When the 5100 is outputing component it seems to set "black" at IRE 0 (correct for HD,) rather than IRE 7 (correct for NTSC.)

Adjust your display to suit. Unfortunately, if your other sources (like a DVD player) can't be set to IRE 0, then you'll have to either be able to save two settings on your display, or leave it adjusted at a good compromise between the two (what I ended-up doing.)

One problem that this box has is that it seems to output SD digital at IRE0(incorrect) while SD analog seems to be IRE7 (correct), even on the SVID output.

If you adjust your set to look good with the analog cable using the svidio output, then the digital 480i content on the same svideo cable will look too dark, and of course if the SD digital looks good then the anlog will look a bit washed out. You just cannot win with this thing. :-)

It has the 4:3 bypass mode. You cans set it to 480p or 480i or off. The box can now switch to 480i/p when it's not showsing HD stuff on the component output. Nice.

The off-center analog video seems to be adjusted for the better, I can no longer see pixel goobers on the right edge of the screen when in 4:3 squeeze mode on my set (Pioneer Pro520).

On the other hand the box stills spews the 480i digitals at 0IRE while the analogs are spewed at 7IRE. The makes getting a consitant black level setting for 480i content somewhat problematic resulting in a compromise. I find this annoying. My Mot (GI really)DSR-920 (4DTV) BUD receiver does not have this problem with analog and digital content. Neither should the DCT5100.

There is still no option to adjust the position of the actual video. Bummer.

I hope this soiftware udpate heralds the arrival of more HD programming, like the locals feeds. One can but hope.

Originally posted by gene1138
Just found channel 190. Looks like northern Jersey finally got HD PBS. :D Looks great!
Yes, I noticed a reference to PBS on a bill insert, so I looked for it. The guide says something like "reserved for future use," but 190 has PBS and 191 has PBS Kids. 191 did not look HD, but 190 sure did.

Out here in Seattle, I was doing my morning ritual checkout of the 5100 to see if there were any new channels, etc. I had to do a double take when I checked out SHOHD and it went into 1080i mode by itself. Going back to the SD channels, it switched back to 480i mode. This was consistent switching between SHOHD, HBOHD, and non-HD channels. Firmware level is now 00, I believe it was 04 before. Software level is still 50.00-1078. I didn't have time to check anything else, such as the user menu, but this is progress at last.

Hi Al Shing ... The first of the updates were pushed yesterday! I've been told that hdtv agreements are finalized. Just in time for Super Bowl ... DOH! Oh well, we'll be able to view local channels' hdtv broadcasts in the very near future.

http://www.hdtvpub.com/
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,5798724~root=attbi~mode=flat

Just to be clear, what is the current (not yet upgraded) Firmware version and what will it be with the upgrade?

Hey miatasm,

Any word yet on the parts or part numbers, that those of us who need RGBHV signals, can use when we contact Comcast? I'd love to be able to use the 5100 but its only got component outputs which I can't use given my current hardware. I know you mentioned a while ago you were looking into it and just thought I'd see if there was any new news.

Thanks again for all your help in this regard.

Eric

I guess I was dozing off because I don't remember what new features or fixes the latest upgrade is supposed to enable. Can anyone fill me in?

The upgrade being discussed - the one we just received here in the Seattle area -- is firmware 2.40. I think this is the upgrade that most of you folks in the Eastern US had already received as far back as November. This upgrade mainly enables the "4:3 Override" feature. We're just a little behind here in the west - it took a couple months, but maybe our local AT&T Broadband office has finally woken up & realized they're now Comcast...

In the Seattle area also - my software version of 50.00-1078 and firmware version of 00. Anyone know the difference between the software version we have in the Seattle area (50 something) and what others have (51 something)?

Now we just need the HDTV channels!!!

:)

-James

miatasm posted back in Septemeber >>>--> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=1729873#post1729873

"... Speaking of Firmware, I've seen users on this forum constantly posting their firmware versions on this forum, and they all are posting different numbers completely. I've seen 50.00, 00, 04, 51.00-1132, ect. It make for some confusing reading. I would hope that we could all get on the same page with these numbers, by posting the ACTUAL Firmware# from the Diagnostics menu. The following procedure accesses these numbers:

Power the 5100 "off" --> Press "select" --> This will access the Diag. Menu. --> Arrow "down" to selection "d08 code modules" --> press "select" --> The Bootloader & Firmware numbers are at the top --> My box has 02.15 as the Bootloader & 02.40 for the Firmware. My box has the latest updates."

---

My DCT5100 has:
Bootloader: 2.16
Firmware: 2.40

My box only has Bootloader 2.15. Did some areas receive a later version than others?

Originally posted by r0bErT4u
Hi Al Shing ... The first of the updates were pushed yesterday! I've been told that hdtv agreements are finalized. Just in time for Super Bowl ... DOH! Oh well, we'll be able to view local channels' hdtv broadcasts in the very near future.

http://www.hdtvpub.com/
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,5798724~root=attbi~mode=flat

You're talking about Seattle right? Right? RIIIGHHHTTTTTT? :-)

Yes, I'm only asking if different areas of Seattle got different levels of the Bootloader.

Originally posted by EricFinn
Hey miatasm,

Any word yet on the parts or part numbers, that those of us who need RGBHV signals, can use when we contact Comcast? I'd love to be able to use the 5100 but its only got component outputs which I can't use given my current hardware. I know you mentioned a while ago you were looking into it and just thought I'd see if there was any new news.

Thanks again for all your help in this regard.

Eric

Yes I did get some info. The part numbers I saw were part numbers frm Scientific Atlanta. It is up to the local MSO whether or not they will actually order them or not but from my resources being so limited the info I'm getting is saying that these parts would like cost about as much as ones from an online vendor. I'm still trying to get more info about pricing and avail. I will keep you updated.

My wish list...

Discrete on/off codes

Better guide.

Simple enough.

I second the discrete on/off codes, although this is much better now, then when the sidecar had no on/off remote controls at all; not even a toggle.

I would like a way to dim the front panel led's, and better analog picture quality.

Firewire in/output would be a plus..........so that digital recording was possible as well.

Just a few wish list additions..........

My current setup is Direct TV run thru a Panasonic AE100 projector. Although Direct offers local channels, they do not offer them in HD but, of course Comcast does.

I am sure most of you are aware that the AE100 is limited to 480p. I strongly suspect that it is going to be forever and a day before Direct will offer HD local channels.

My questions are as follows:

1. Is there a monthly rental charge on the 5100 or does one need to purchase? If so, how much does it cost?

2. Since my projector will only accept 480i or480p does that have a significant effect on the quality of the HD signal?

3. I assume the 5100 is a HD receiver so I assume I would not need any additional hardware to observe HD signals.

I have had Direct TV since early September 2002 and to be honest with you, I have not been that happy with it. My two major complaints are that the local CBS signal is terrible and almost anytime it rains I get broken up or no signal at all. Finally on a periodic basis, I have to unplug the receiver then plug it back in so it can reprogram.

Originally posted by Daffy
2. Since my projector will only accept 480i or480p does that have a significant effect on the quality of the HD signal? Um - yes. Since you don't actually have an HD-capable TV, there's little point in your subscribing to ANY HD offering, either satellite or cable.

The latest software is to enable DVI, on so equipped 5100's. Comcast is just beginning to roll them out.

I thought that Fox was transmiting their HD signal in 480p??

Originally posted by jimre
Um - yes. Since you don't actually have an HD-capable TV, there's little point in your subscribing to ANY HD offering, either satellite or cable.

I have to disagree. High Definition 1080i or 720p down-converted to 480p will still look A LOT better than standard def 480i programming upconverted to 480p.

If I had a 480p set, that's for damn sure what I'd do:rolleyes:!!!

Originally posted by Daffy
I thought that Fox was transmiting their HD signal in 480p??

Daffy,

They are, but the problem is 480p is not HD. Of the resolutions currently being broadcast, only 720p and 1080i are considered HD resolutions. 480p is called EDTV (Enhanced Definition TV).

That is exactly why people around these parts (the HD Forum) hate FOX:(!!!

Originally posted by DHarp193
I have to disagree. High Definition 1080i or 720p down-converted to 480p will still look A LOT better than standard def 480i programming upconverted to 480p.

If I had a 480p set, that's for damn sure what I'd do:rolleyes:!!!
HD down-converted to even 480i looks better than regular 480i NTSC. 480p even more so. And, let's not forget widescreen.

If it were me, I'd also do it. I've considered it for a 480i-inputs only widescreen TV (antique relic of around 5 years ago), but since I have 2 real HD displays, I've decided to postpone the upgrade.

Claude

I also agree that the HD feeds downconverted to 480p will be much better than 480i. From what I hear, dtv broadcasts locals extremely compressed, so even having a nice high bandwidth channel will take care of a lot of the problems. Resolution is not everything...

Originally posted by Ken H
The latest software is to enable DVI, on so equipped 5100's. Comcast is just beginning to roll them out.

Thanks for the info, that's one thing I was waiting to make sure of before I pony up the money for an HD set.

Is Comcast rolling out DVI equiped boxes as a standard now, or is it just available if you ask for it, or has is it still up in the air?

I have a range of displays, including a pj that is 480p/widescreen native. I can definitely attest to the fact that HD downsampled to this res looks better than native NTSC. Way better. No comparison. It even looks ever so slightly better than most DVDs.

I am still having problems here in NJ with ABC audio through digital out.
Program info always shows dd5.1 and I only hear left and right speakers through my amp. Ther is nothing wrong with my connections or my setup as I can tell. No problems with DPL11 or with using analog composite connection.

Anyone else having this problem and has anyone contacted Comcast about it ?

Originally posted by stuatwork
I am still having problems here in NJ with ABC audio through digital out.
Program info always shows dd5.1 and I only hear left and right speakers through my amp. Ther is nothing wrong with my connections or my setup as I can tell. No problems with DPL11 or with using analog composite connection.

Anyone else having this problem and has anyone contacted Comcast about it ?

I don't know who or what is responsible for this. Some ABC shows seem perfectly coded in DD 5.1 while others exhibit the same problems that you mentioned. I also get ABC-HD through Comcast cable. For instance, Saving Private Ryan was phenomenal sound-wise, while The Rock was so-so. NYPD Blue always sounds great, Alias not so much. It seems it varies from show to show and I'm not sure that's the networks fault.

Stuatwork,

How many times is it going to be explained that program info showing dd5.1 doesn't mean anything if the source is stereo?

Claude,

I think that you misunderstood the two previous posts. For clarification, on my receiver my 5.1 light illuminates whenever I am tuned into ABC whether or not it is a network broadcast or an affiliate broadcast. It even stays on during commericals which for the most part, save some superbowl commercials, are stereo transmissions. The problem is the receiver shows that it is supposed to be receiving 5.1 channels of information when in actuality it is only receiving a stereo transmission.

This is a problem for those of use using a digital connection from our 5100 to our receiver. For example, since ABC is sending a 5.1 signal only utilizing the L and R channels my receiver will only provide information for the L and R speakers unless I change my receiver to decode in analog and then it will provide some form of prologic.

I find this to be an error on ABC's behalf as all of the other stations that I receive via my 5100 do not exhibit this problem. AC-3 is used only when appropriate. I think that I have read somewhere on this forum that individuals have attempted many times to contact ABC concerning this issue yet there has been no fix made yet.

Hopefully ABC will correct this soon as it is extremely annoying to have to constantly switch modes on my receiver due to the technical errors of a broadcaster that only needs to encode its transmissions correctly. ABC simply needs to broadcast DD 5.1 content as such and send stereo content as DD 2.0. This will solve the decoding problem.

gammite

I got home tonight and noticed the 5100 downloading new information.

I checked and the Firmware version is 06 (02.46), changed from 00 in the November upgrade. The software is still the same 51.00-1132

I did a quick scan through the last few pages of posts and didn't read of any upgrades or see any mailers like last time.

Anyone else have the latest update or know what it fixed?

Thanks for all your responses. I will definitely switch over to comcast digital when my contract with Direct runs out this September, just in time for football season.

I would agree that the local channels are extremely compressed with CBS being the worst by a significant margin.

Most HD receivers I have seen are running in the $500 range. Does Comcast sell the 5100 or do they charge a monthly rental fee?

Originally posted by gammite
Claude,

I think that you misunderstood the two previous posts. For clarification, on my receiver my 5.1 light illuminates whenever I am tuned into ABC whether or not it is a network broadcast or an affiliate broadcast. It even stays on during commericals which for the most part, save some superbowl commercials, are stereo transmissions. The problem is the receiver shows that it is supposed to be receiving 5.1 channels of information when in actuality it is only receiving a stereo transmission.

This is a problem for those of use using a digital connection from our 5100 to our receiver. For example, since ABC is sending a 5.1 signal only utilizing the L and R channels my receiver will only provide information for the L and R speakers unless I change tell my receiver to decode in analog and then it will provide some form of prologic.

I find this to be an error on ABC's behalf as all of the other stations that I receive via my 5100 do not exhibit this problem. AC-3 is used only when appropriate. I think that I have read somewhere on this forum that individuals have attempted many times to contact ABC concerning this issue yet there has been no fix made yet.

Hopefully ABC will correct this soon as it is extremely annoying to have to constantly switch modes on my receiver due to the technical errors of a broadcaster that only needs to encode its transmissions correctly. ABC simply needs to broadcast DD 5.1 content as such and send stereo content as DD 2.0. This will solve the decoding problem.

gammite
Apparently I did misunderstand the two previous posts. Your explanation is very clear, and I could wrap my fuzzy little mind around it :) Since I don't bother synthesizing a 5.1 signal (i.e., if it's stereo, I listen to stereo; if it's 5.1, so much the better), I guess I didn't consider the hassle factor that a mistmatched encoding could result in.

Claude

Originally posted by Daffy
Does Comcast sell the 5100 or do they charge a monthly rental fee?

With a digital cable sub you get the box without a rental charge.

Originally posted by MattyMc
I got home tonight and noticed the 5100 downloading new information.

I checked and the Firmware version is 06 (02.46), changed from 00 in the November upgrade. The software is still the same 51.00-1132

I did a quick scan through the last few pages of posts and didn't read of any upgrades or see any mailers like last time.

Anyone else have the latest update or know what it fixed? From Sunday night, in this topic:

The latest software is to enable DVI, on so equipped 5100's. Comcast is just beginning to roll them out.

Originally posted by T.Wells
With a digital cable sub you get the box without a rental charge.

Actually, as of march 1st, in the detroit area at least, they are going to start charging $5/month for the 5100...

How do I use the DCT5100's audio & video inputs? I'd like to connect a video source like my mini-DV deck. (example: mini-DV deck >>>-> DCT5100 component video >>>--> D-VHS vcr >>>--> plasma) Is this configuration possible?

Originally posted by r0bErT4u
How do I use the DCT5100's audio & video inputs? I'd like to connect a video source like my mini-DV deck. (example: mini-DV deck >>>-> DCT5100 component video >>>--> D-VHS vcr >>>--> plasma) Is this configuration possible?
You're SOL now, and quite possibly forever.

I got that upgrade last night in West Orange...
S/W is now 51.00-1132 and
Firmware is now 06

Mr. Mayor

Originally posted by Mr. Mayor
I got that upgrade last night in West Orange...
S/W is now 51.00-1132 and
Firmware is now 06

Mr. Mayor

Actually I was informed that this latest Code Download was to include an updated Algorithm in the software that upconverts the NTSC (Analog 1-99)to Component output. This Algorithm was said to fix the poor picture quality of these channels. I haven't received my update yet but can anyone verify that there was any noticable change in their analog PQ?

miatasm,

Cant speak to the 1-99 channel PQ yet, as I havent had a chance to view it in detail yet. However, I will tonight. That said, even without this update, I think the PQ on channels 1-99 is quite good now. I watch all my channels through component inputs now, so thats saying something.

Mr. Mayor

Got the new firmware. My 5100 is running on version 2.46. I can see an improvement on the 1-99 channels. PQ is better that it has been but is still not as good as piping the signal directly into the TV. The graininess has been reduced thus improving the PQ. I think there is still a little room for improvement but Motorola has gotten very close to getting this right.

Again, kudos to Motorola and Comcast for actually working toward a quick solution to the issues with the DCT-5100. I've been very impressed with the speed in which they get these firmware fixes to the end user. DirecTV and all of its overpriced STB makers should take some notes here.

Originally posted by ClaudeD
You're SOL now, and quite possibly forever. Please help! I'd like to get the best possible picture quality when I transfer my mini-dv tapes to D-VHS & DVD+R. From what I've read here, I should use component outs of the DCT5100 ... right? The problem is that there are only one set of component outs, which I currently have going into the D-VHS deck. My mini-dv deck has firewire, s-video, and composite outs, but doesn't have component out. Currently, I'm doing cable connection gymnastics with my home theater equipment :o(

How do you check the firmware version?

anyword on when ocean county, specifically brick, nj, ,will be switching to the dct-5100? i called and they said right now all they use is the SA

No update here for me!

From Sunday night, in this topic: The latest software is to enable DVI, on so equipped 5100's. Comcast is just beginning to roll them out.

From the manual I pulled out online at http://gicout60.gic.gi.com/customer_docs/user_guides/495012-001-a.pdf

I don't see a DVI port at all --- can someone shed some light on this?

I am having my 5100 installed tomorrow am by Comcast here in NJ. Are people getting 5100's here in NJ with DVI ports? If so is this compatible with the DVI in on my Pioneer Plasma 503

thanks Michael M

channel 172 (comcast sportsnet HD) just appeared on our program guide. When I tune to the channel, it says "unauthorized". I'll call comcast tomorrow to find out if it is really here yet.

Originally posted by stuatwork
How do you check the firmware version? I forgot how to check, so I went back to find a post I once saw about how it is done:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=1582331#post1582331

just got Comcast digital + HD here in Calvert Co., MD with a Moto 5100

software: 50.00-1078
bootloader: 2.16
firmware: 2.40

wonder why my software version is different than everyone elses...

Originally posted by Matt DeVillier
just got Comcast digital + HD here in Calvert Co., MD with a Moto 5100

software: 50.00-1078
bootloader: 2.16
firmware: 2.40

wonder why my software version is different than everyone elses... I've got the same numbers as you.

Originally posted by Michael M
From the manual I pulled out online at http://gicout60.gic.gi.com/customer_docs/user_guides/495012-001-a.pdf

I don't see a DVI port at all --- can someone shed some light on this?


The DVI port on the 5100 is optional from Moto. Comcast has just started installing them in some areas.

Unless you have a digital display w/DVI input, don't worry about it. If you do, ask them for a DVI equipped 5100 & do a comparison between the two, and let us know how it turns out.

Originally posted by Ken H
The DVI port on the 5100 is optional from Moto. Comcast has just started installing them in some areas.

Unless you have a digital display w/DVI input, don't worry about it. If you do, ask them for a DVI equipped 5100 & do a comparison between the two, and let us know how it turns out.

Miatasm,

Do you know if Comcast will allow us to swap a non-DVI 5100 for a DVI 5100? I have a suitable display.

TIA,
Claude

I have been anxiously awaiting the PQ firmware update that Miatasm spoke of last month. I believe that he said we could expect the update in the first or second week of February.

My 5100 was installed in early January and already had the latest software and firmware (or I believe it did after reading this thread). Since I have not yet received any updates, I have what may seem like a simple question: In order to be ready to receive the update, should I turn the box off each night or leave it on?

Thanks,
Andy

Andy,

You can leave the box on. When I got my update last year, the box was on. After the update was finished, the box tuned into the channel that it had been on when the update started.

Originally posted by rob_0
channel 172 (comcast sportsnet HD) just appeared on our program guide. When I tune to the channel, it says "unauthorized". I'll call comcast tomorrow to find out if it is really here yet.

Any new word on whether CSN-HD on 172 is up yet??? I haven't had the time to check myself. I can't wait for this one:)!!!

software: 50.00-1078
bootloader: 2.16
firmware: 2.40

There doesn't seem to be a rhyme or reason to what people end up with. My versions are
software: 50.00-1078
bootloader: 2.15
firmware: 2.46

Originally posted by DHarp193
Any new word on whether CSN-HD on 172 is up yet??? I haven't had the time to check myself. I can't wait for this one:)!!!


FEBRUARY 15th!!!!! Its been posted here numerous times. They have allocated the channel in the Digital Box Line up @ Ch 172. The first official feed is supposed to be the Sixers game on the night of the 15th.

The following appeared in my local newspaper today in the
"Public Notice" section.

Attention Comcast Customers:
On February 8 and 9, 2003, a high-definiton simulcast of the NBA All-Star game and select NBA programming will be available on channel 172.
On or about February 15, 2003, Comcast SportsNetHD will be added to channel 172.


Since they paid $19.18 to put it in the paper it's probably pretty close to accurate. Hopefully.

The channel was in the listings on tuesday, Wednesday it's gone.
Oh well, Saturday is only 3 days away.

The DVI port on the 5100 is optional from Moto. Comcast has just started installing them in some areas.

Ken H -- I have a Pioneer 503cmx with DVI port. Just got my box today with no DVI -- will have to call Comcast and see if they will swap.

There have been multiple discussions vis-a-vis DVI set top boxes (ie Sony HD200) and Plasmas not playing nice together --

Has anyone out there acutally have a DVI 5100 and trying it?

Michael M

There is another thread about channel 172 in the local info & reception forum. It probably makes sense to keep further discussion on that thread.

To summarize it:
- channel 172 is gone again, for the moment
- 172 will be active on Feb 8 & 9 for the NBA all-star game.

Ken H I sent you a PM......

Originally posted by ClaudeD
Miatasm,

Do you know if Comcast will allow us to swap a non-DVI 5100 for a DVI 5100? I have a suitable display.

TIA,
Claude

I don't think this will be a big deal, since there will be a limited amount of customers asking specifically for DVI, but you will definatly have to be patient. It will take a while before the CSR's even know what DVI is. So requesting one through them will be a chore. Even then they will not be able to guarentee that you will get one. All new 5100's coming into warehouses should be DVI equipped but there are already 1000's of non-DVI boxes in the system. Your best bet is to wait for someone on here to get one, that way you know they are avail., then call and start asking. This is all Going to require alot of patience on your part. Let me know how it all goes.

Originally posted by asutor
I have been anxiously awaiting the PQ firmware update that Miatasm spoke of last month. I believe that he said we could expect the update in the first or second week of February.

My 5100 was installed in early January and already had the latest software and firmware (or I believe it did after reading this thread). Since I have not yet received any updates, I have what may seem like a simple question: In order to be ready to receive the update, should I turn the box off each night or leave it on?

Thanks,
Andy

NNJ got the upgrade a couple of days ago so it shouldn't be long...for everyone else....I hope.

The update will download as long as the box is plugged in. It doesn't matter whether the box is on or off.

New 5100 User Observations:

Observations:

This is the first time I am able to see an HD signal on my Pioneer Plasma 503cmx. I must say the picture is stunning - certainly a significant step better than DVD level quality even when processed through my faroudja video processor.

The picture on 190 is outrageous good. It is ironic that the most stunning picture comes on the loop from 190 from WNET-DT Newark. The picture is so good its more interesting to watch it looping through than ABC or NBC.

178 SHO & 179 HBO -- look very very good equal to video processed DVD superbit (ala - Fifth Element) - 190 still looks the best of all.

I havent been able to see a show that is 1080i on ABC or NBC yet that fills the entire screen -- so for a plasma user it is very disappointing to not be able to stretch/zoom picture as I have been able to with all digital channels from DirecTV.

How the 5100 handles digital sound is very disappointing -- I am using optical spdif to go into a Lexicon MC-1 processor.
++on the HD channels sound levels bounce up and down across
stations.
++While the info guide may say 5.1 sometimes it is and sometimes it is not

I echo observations on red push and black levels whcih many others have mentioned

In contrasting this to DirecTV which I currnetly have:
++Stations 2-99 whether viewed through component or processed through my faroudja as S-video -- are very inferior to DirecTV signals on all corresponding channels (which I have).

++Sound handling is also inferior as stated above

Overall the picture is stunning compared to anything I can currently produce on the Plasma.

The black bars are troublesome for Plamsa users. So while the technology is there to produce extradinary quality the content is not. It is an expensive buy if you have seen many of the movies of on SHO/HBO.

I have to figure out how to explain to my wife after she views 190 and is wowed by the picture ---- that we get movies that we've seen (which we can't time shift) and a few shows on ABC / NBC -- the kids want to know where is UPN/Fox.

I'm not letting go of DirecTV yet... becasue of time shifting with TiVO and quality of all non HD channels.

New 5100 User Observations:

Questions:

Are there programs on abc / nbc which come at HD equivalent to Channel 190 and will fill the entire screen?

Has anyone experimented with comparing digital sound using digital coax vs digital optical - any differences?

Are there tweaks on my audio processor that others with high end audio processors have tried to get more consistent quality sound?

If you have a 16x9 screen are there any circumstance which would warant 4x3 pan/scan etc?

Could someone reexplain (yes I have read it several times) the 4x3 overide function and in particular if you have a plasma how you use this?

thanks alot to those of you have sorted all this through to speed things up for new users!!!!!!!!!!!!

Michael M

Will Comcast offer a Firewire output on the 5100 to connect to my Sony KD34XBR2? Does anyone know?

Originally posted by Michael M
New 5100 User Observations:

Questions:

Are there programs on abc / nbc which come at HD equivalent to Channel 190 and will fill the entire screen?

Has anyone experimented with comparing digital sound using digital coax vs digital optical - any differences?

Are there tweaks on my audio processor that others with high end audio processors have tried to get more consistent quality sound?

If you have a 16x9 screen are there any circumstance which would warant 4x3 pan/scan etc?

Could someone reexplain (yes I have read it several times) the 4x3 overide function and in particular if you have a plasma how you use this?

thanks alot to those of you have sorted all this through to speed things up for new users!!!!!!!!!!!!

Michael M

Programs that are on ABC/NBC that have the same overall Visual Experience as channel 190 would be "The Tonight Show w/Jay Leno".
Other than that there are other HD Widescreen Programs on these channels but none of them have the quality, I think.

I have tried numerous audio comparisons between all of the audio outputs & have found that there are NO differences in sound between, Coax / Optical.

I don't know about your processor, but I don't think any changes can be made to help this situation with the inconsistances in Audio Output of the 5100.

There are no circumstances where you would use any of the 4:3 modes with a widescreen TV, that I know of.

The 4:3 override tells what format (480i or 480p) the 5100 should send to the TV on the Component outputs, when the 5100 is tuned to any channel other than your HD channels (178,179,180,181,190,ect.)

Originally posted by donjulio
Will Comcast offer a Firewire output on the 5100 to connect to my Sony KD34XBR2? Does anyone know?

I've started work on a DCT5100 FAQ, that will hopefully limit the amount of repeat questions about specific functions of the 5100. Like this one....

The firewire option isn't something that Comcast wants to have to deal with as of right now. They are still fairly new to HD & Component outputs & Digital Audio & now DVI...Its just too much to teach soooo many techs & CSR's what these are and how they work. There is also supposedly some legal problems that they may encounter with offering Firewire....I don't think its worth it for them as of right now with the limited number of requests for it.

About the FAQ:

If anyone on the board wants to steer me in the right direction with Questions that should be put on the FAQ let me know via E-MAIL. I can send you a link to the stuff I have now.

miatasm@hotmail.com

miatasm

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.

If I want to request at 5100 with DVI does anyone have a suggestion about who to call at comcast --- can I just go to the general CSR?

How can you find out ahead of time which programs are widescreen HD on NBC & ABC -- is it only in the evening?

Michael M

miatasm,

Sooooo very sorry to burden you with the Firewire question. I realize that you must be VERY burdened. Since Comcast has decided to embrace DVI, a recent development, I was curious if the Firewire situation had changed. Do not feel you have to respond if this too will tax you.

Originally posted by donjulio
miatasm,

Sooooo very sorry to burden you with the Firewire question. I realize that you must be VERY burdened. Since Comcast has decided to embrace DVI, a recent development, I was curious if the Firewire situation had changed. Do not feel you have to respond if this too will tax you.



Oh Stop it.......Well since you took my post COMPLETELY the wrong way & out of context, I'm sorry to have offended you but it was meant as a primer to me posting about the work being done in order to get a FAQ for this specific device, so you don't have to look through 33 pages of postings. You just happened to be the lucky one to post a question that has been answered before. Whether or not you noticed, I did answer your question anyway, but since you felt the need to get your panties in a bundle all of your questions can now be answered with a one simple click HERE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/search.php?s=)


"Since Comcast has decided to embrace DVI, a recent development, I was curious if the Firewire situation had changed. "

If your original post had been this exact quote it may have made more sense, but it wasn't and thats why I used you as the sample.

Originally posted by Michael M
miatasm

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.

If I want to request at 5100 with DVI does anyone have a suggestion about who to call at comcast --- can I just go to the general CSR?

How can you find out ahead of time which programs are widescreen HD on NBC & ABC -- is it only in the evening?

Michael M

Check back one page or so someone asked about the availbility of DVI, but the quick answer will be a CSR, but you will have to be patient and hope to get a CSR that knows what you are talking about, and even then they will not know for sure if your specific systems warehouse even has them in stock. It doesn't seem like it will be easy but who knows....Patience will be a virtue....

The place I use is .www.titantv.com (http://www.titantv.com) . Lately though they have been inconsistant in their listings, but they can get you started.

Originally posted by Michael M

If you have a 16x9 screen are there any circumstance which would warant 4x3 pan/scan etc?
I like to use the 4x3 pan/scan feature on a 16x9 screen when I am watching an HD channel showing non-HD material. I do this to eliminate the black bars that are present in the picture. Doing this has two benefits: the picture is larger and uneven wear of the projectors (I have a rear-view projection TV) is prevented.

It does distort the picture, but I have no problem watching such. (When I first got my TV, it bothered me to watch like that, but I got used to it very quickly.)

With the current software/firmware that the 5100 has, you cannot pan/scan to eliminate the bars on the component output when the component output is set to 1080i or 720p. The 5100 though, will do that on the standard definition outputs.

Pan/scan on the component output with 1080i/720p is on my wish list. Another thing I would like is anamorphic (or full) output on the standard definition outputs.

Originally posted by Alan Malka
I like to use the 4x3 pan/scan feature on a 16x9 screen when I am watching an HD channel showing non-HD material. I do this to eliminate the black bars that are present in the picture. Doing this has two benefits: the picture is larger and uneven wear of the projectors (I have a rear-view projection TV) is prevented.



Maybe I am in a minority of 4*3 set owners - but I would like COMCAST to still look into hardware or software changes to improve my reception. I thought they were working on this for a February release; but didn't hear anything from the NJ crowd that recently were upgraded.

Specifically the HD material is better than it was before but not true letterbox 16*9 on my set. I don't have any problem getting a true 16*9 letterbox or zoom on HD material with MyHD card - is this impossible with 5100? The 4*3 shows in HD channels also need, or should be switchable, to a zoom mode that properly places the show full screen 4*3. As it is I get a square picture with a bar on the right side. So its slightly distorted and not full screen (really the zoom mode for the HD and for 4*3 material should result in a high resolution 4*3 full screen picture - with the sides cut off of the HD shows.)

I have heard that the next version of firmware/software download to the 5100 will occur sometime next week (week of Feb 10th), sometime mid-week probably. I believe that this version will address some of channel 2-99 PQ issues. Let's see what happens.

Originally posted by donjulio
miatasm,

Sooooo very sorry to burden you with the Firewire question. I realize that you must be VERY burdened. Since Comcast has decided to embrace DVI, a recent development, I was curious if the Firewire situation had changed. Do not feel you have to respond if this too will tax you.
This a) offends me and b) concerns me.
Miatasm has been nothing but informative and helpful to the members of this forum. If he gets tired of answering the same question 20 times, well, I don't blame him. Granted that the search functions work only so-so, but the answers are usually IN THE SAME THREAD for crying out loud. However, I'm sure I've asked an already answered question myself sometime or other; it happens (as I say, especially because the search function is a bit suboptimal). Getting sarcastic when it's pointed out, however, isn't appropriate.

Miatasm, on behalf of anyone who doesn't have the grace to appreciate your help, I thank you for them.

Claude

ClaudeD,

Well, it seems an apology is necessary, so I apologize to all members. I did not intend to offend anyone or get anyone concerned. As for the question at hand, I did not see any large announcement that DVI was going to be supported until there was a mention from another member making a post, then this was then addressed by miatasm; and now it seems that DVI is going to be supported now and in the future. So I asked if there was another change and perhaps FireWire would now be supported. If I traced through the 65 pages of this thread, or used a searched I would find that DVI is not going to be supported until the last few pages, a recent development, so I naturally was curious now about FireWire. Things do change and asking questions as to new developments in my opinion is not wrong. As to my response to miatasm's response, the sarcasm was not meant to offend, that is problem with writing, the reader never knows the perspective of the writer. I shall hang-up my creative pen and stick to just the facts.

Well, I've just read this entire (33 page!) thread. Very informative. I may need a quick summary of the video options I have.

Just got my 5100 earlier in the week. Hadn't known to check which software/firmware releases I have, but I'll do that this evening. I'm in Ann Arbor, MI, if that tells anyone anything about my software/firmware.

I've got a 16:9 Toshiba 50h81. I *think* my TV's native mode is 1080i.

I *think* I want to set 4:3 override ON to eliminate pillarbox lines when watching non-HD shows on HD channels. Correct?

(On a side note, there was a brief discussion about seeing black bars all the way around the pic when watching non-HD shows. Some speculated whether this was on a 4:3 TV. I saw this while watching West Wing the other night on my 16:9 TV.)

If I set 4:3 override on, is there any difference in setting it to 480i vs. 480p? In 480p will I not be able to view the channel menu?

Non-HD programming is broadcast at 480i, right? Is there any benefit to leaving the 5100 set at 1080i? Will 480i programming appear better when scaled to 1080i (is this what happens?)?? Or will it appear the same whether my 5100 is set to 1080i or 4:3 override ON at 480i?

I hope these questions make sense. I'm not only a novice but a little dizzy after reading all 33 pages of this thread!

Thanks a lot.
-ira

Originally posted by donjulio
ClaudeD,
As to my response to miatasm's response, the sarcasm was not meant to offend, that is problem with writing, the reader never knows the perspective of the writer. I shall hang-up my creative pen and stick to just the facts.
donjulio,

Thank you.

As one who frequently gets sarcastic or sardonic, but usually without harsh intent, I find that a smiley face (corny as it is), goes a long way to tempering people's responses to my writing. :) See, there's one :) And another. But please don't hang up your creative pen; that's throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

And, BTW, an apology is in order from me. I had a crummy commute to work in the snow, and I probably should have let let your e-mail go.

Claude

is it the general consensus that the scaling of channels 2-99 to 1080i is complete crap? or just my box? I don't mind using the 4:3 480i override, but my set takes a few seconds to switch scan rates which can be annoying

I am wondering if there is any advantage to setting up Moto 5100 to 720p when watching ABC HD stuff since it is broadcast in 720p. Currently mine is always set to 1080i and 480I override. I leave it this way 100% of the time. Is their ever a time I would want to change this.

My tv is a Hitachi 57uwx20b and it displays in 540p and 1080i if that helps.

I am relatively new to this stuff so go easy on me.

Well, I would concur that 2-99 channels are crap on Comcast in MD thru the 5100. I cannot use the 4:3 override beause the HD component on my sammy 437 won't take a 480i signal (this caused some problems when I was getting HD cable installed). In order to view those channels I bring in the cable directly to the TV and then use the cable out on the TV to feed the 5100. I would love to see an upgrade improve this situation.

On the subject of DVI, I had a question. For those who do have the 5100 connected to their set thru the DVI is the upgrade in PQ worth the trouble of trying to obtain a different box with DVI.

Also has anyone with Comcast in MD obtained a new 5100 with the DVI port?

Originally posted by geckojb
I am wondering if there is any advantage to setting up Moto 5100 to 720p when watching ABC HD stuff since it is broadcast in 720p. Currently mine is always set to 1080i and 480I override. I leave it this way 100% of the time. Is their ever a time I would want to change this.

My tv is a Hitachi 57uwx20b and it displays in 540p and 1080i if that helps.

I am relatively new to this stuff so go easy on me.
There are two (actually more) parts to the answer:

1. If you have a device that can display 720p natively, you probably want to set the Moto for 720p for ABC. On my wish-list is a desire for Moto to pass thru whatever HD format is used -- 720p comes out as 720p, 1080i comes out as 1080i. This does not apply to your situation.

2. If you think your set's scaler is significantly better than the Moto's, then you probably want to set ABC to 720p. There are issues of deinterlacing, scaling, etc.

In practical terms, probably more than 80% of your shows are going to be in 1080i (assuming you have premium channels in addition to local). And, the differences are going to be relatively minor (not to some of the golden eyed ones) especially at 57". Set it to 1080i and enjoy the show. My opinion, YMMV.

Claude

PS For the Super Bowl, I set my 5100 to 720p going into a fixed pixel device that does 1366x768p native. Other than that, I have left everything at 1080i.

If you are receiving the NBAHD channel for the NBA All-Star Game, it is currently showing color bars, giving a great opportunity to calibrate your HD picture. I found a procedure at http://www.videouniversity.com/tvbars2.htm to use the color bars to set the brightness and contrast. I found that my brightness was set way too low when using the settings from the Sound & Vision Disk. It almost seems too bright, but it does look better compared to the way it looked before.

I'll have to look for color bars on an off-the-air SD channel so I can calibrate the SD side of the box. This should solve the darkness problem that has been commonly noted.

That is great that we now have Color Bars, but I think that these color bars are NTSC color bars. I believe that for HD signals there are different color bars, this is especially important when setting the Black Level. Please those much smarter than I correct me here, but I believe that the correct PLUGE setting for HD signals is 0 IRE. Using NTSC patterns for setting Black Level sets the level at 7.5 IRE. This will be correct when viewing standard definition signals, but when viewing HD signals this will be too high. Then again is may be academic if the 5100 is outputting signals at HD resolutions on all channels. So perhaps setting your set Black Level using NTSC Color Bars will be okay. Now I have confused myself. However, it is nice to see something to help set Color and Hue.
All you GURU's out there can you shed some light here and get me out of the dark? (PUN is fully intended).

Originally posted by donjulio
That is great that we now have Color Bars, but I think that these color bars are NTSC color bars.

well they may not be perfect but thanks to Al Shing my picture is now much improved over before and I"mno longer in the dark. I wish there was a way to save the signal fro when it goes off or COMCAST would routinely send it at predefined times

Is the upcoming CSN-HD on 172 a premium channel requiring more monthly $s, or will it be automaticallly included with Digital Cable tier?

From what I can gather, as long you have an HD STB (Motorola 5100 or SA 3100HD) and you have a HD TV it is FREE as long as you subscribe to the Digital Tier. I maybe wrong, but that is my understanding.

CSN-HD will be free for awhile at least, probably until April, and reviewable to anyone with an HD cable box from Comcast in selected markets in pa, nj etc.

Ha!

I see I'm getting the channel 194 NBA-HD color bars here in Detroit now also.

- Tom

I now have 172 listed on Comcast in Philadelphia.........but when I choose it, it says "not authorized". 179-190 are working just fine. 178 does not come in for me since I do not get Showtime.


As an addendum...........172 now has a box that says "Order".........and when you click it....it gives you comcast's phone number to call.

Originally posted by MattyMc
I got home tonight and noticed the 5100 downloading new information.

I checked and the Firmware version is 06 (02.46), changed from 00 in the November upgrade. The software is still the same 51.00-1132

I did a quick scan through the last few pages of posts and didn't read of any upgrades or see any mailers like last time.

Anyone else have the latest update or know what it fixed? :confused: Is there a way to request Firmware/Software updates? :confused: Can we update our own boxes? :confused:

Originally posted by r0bErT4u
:confused: Is there a way to request Firmware/Software updates? :confused: Can we update our own boxes? :confused:

No & No. If your area has been updated already, the box as soon as is plugged in will update to the new firmware automatically. If your area hasn't released the update you have to wait until they do.

You should check earlier in this post to see what other users in your area are getting for firmware. Or just post where exactly you live and someone in that area could reply with their current version numbers.

Originally posted by ClaudeD
This a) offends me and b) concerns me.
Miatasm has been nothing but informative and helpful to the members of this forum. If he gets tired of answering the same question 20 times, well, I don't blame him. Granted that the search functions work only so-so, but the answers are usually IN THE SAME THREAD for crying out loud. However, I'm sure I've asked an already answered question myself sometime or other; it happens (as I say, especially because the search function is a bit suboptimal). Getting sarcastic when it's pointed out, however, isn't appropriate.

Miatasm, on behalf of anyone who doesn't have the grace to appreciate your help, I thank you for them.

Claude

Thanks Claude, as always you are a gentleman & a scholar ;) I have learned alot about the more technical aspects of HDTV, by visiting this forum, and I can tell you for sure that I would have never noticed or probably cared about most of the things talked about here. And I would like to think that all info thats been posted here has helped get this device into its current state with the firmware updates & such. In fact, I almost know a bit too much sometimes, I don't have any time @ work now where it is not hectic, with generic questions about Cable Modems & now HDTV & the 5100.

I was hoping to get some feedback about the 5100 FAQ in the works. If you would like to contribute & please even if you think its the simplest of questions....Send me an e-mail @ miatasm@hotmail.com with "5100 FAQ" in the subject, I will send you a link to what I have so far and you can respond with any comments or questions you think should be added. All comments are very welcome.

I won't post it here until its close to finished because I don't want to turn this thread into a FAQ itself, with the comments being posted here.

A page or two back some posted their wish list for the 5100. I would like to add to that, with:

I wish that everyone currently using the 5100 could be forced to use the SA3100HD for a couple of days, and see what progress this box has made, with the info provided on forums like this one. That is unless SA finally got their act together, but I don't think they have, yet! :p

So Claude,

It sounds like you have the PBS loop now, I asked you waayyyy back earlier in this post to give me a specific point so I could witness the "Red Push", (I still don't think I know what I'm exactly looking for). Have you seen it on the PBS loop, yet?

Miatasm,

You've mistaken me for one of the others. I never did see a red push, but I was whinging about the picture darkness. However, and perhaps I'm remiss for not pointing it out, as far as I'm concerned, at least the travelogue (which is all I've watched on PBS) is PERFECT! I mean perfect in a mesmerizing way. I really have very little interest in the subject matter, but I stare at it for extended periods.

If there's red push, I haven't seen it (but then, I didn't see it before). To be honest, I haven't been bothered by the darkness so much lately; Sopranos, for example, is dark, but I think that's intentional and "mood setting." Maybe why I didn't post about the change is because there wasn't any one day where I said, "okay, now it's different and better." It just crept up on me :)

Claude

Originally posted by r0bErT4u
:confused: Is there a way to request Firmware/Software updates? :confused: Can we update our own boxes? :confused: Nothing to be confused about. Read this topic, it's all been covered before.

Back to those color bars - is it reasonable to set the component output to 480i and then use the color bars to calibrate the SD picture? My original brightness setting was -4 as determined by the Sound & Vision DVD. The color bars in 1080i came up with +15, while in 480i mode it came up with +8. For reference, the max setting is +30.

Using the S-Video version of that signal, I notice the picture is significantly blurrier than the component video 480i rendition. Brightness is about the same as with component video, but the tint and color are reversed. With component, there was a lower tint setting and a higher color setting, while with S-Video, it calls for a higher tint setting and a lower color setting. That seems a little strange, but I'll probably just stick with the component output as the first choice for viewing.

Sorry if this has been said before, but I couldn't find anything. I have a panasonic TV. Could someone post the procedure (and code) for programming the 5100 remote to control the tv?

And then, once that's done, can I then run the previously posted procedure to get volume control while in cable mode?

Found it on my Shaw cable website... Press TV. Hold setup till the light flashes. Enter 0250 for the panasonic. Shaw has a pdf of numerous codes at http://www.shaw.ca/products_services/digitalcable/pdf/technical_millennium4.pdf if anyone cares...

Originally posted by Felgar
Found it on my Shaw cable website... Press TV. Hold setup till the light flashes. Enter 0250 for the panasonic. Shaw has a pdf of numerous codes at http://www.shaw.ca/products_services/digitalcable/pdf/technical_millennium4.pdf if anyone cares...

Actually if he has the remote manufactured by oneforall then it is a 3 digit code. The panasonic codes are: 250 or 051 or 055. But you figured it out anyway.


The manual is here:

http://test.starstream.net/support/cable/navigator.pdf

Yes you can run the 993 procedure for volume control. Its called volume lock.

Looks like the remote I got with my cable service (Shaw in Calgary) is different. But thanks for the info, much appreciated.

Hmmm... I wonder if those of us in lower-revision areas could send our boxes to those of us in higher-revision areas for the updates?

Probably wouldn't work, as I assume the cable company's only broadcast to specific MAC addys, and the update push is probably done as a one-up thing. Not to mention the boxes might not work once they got back. It would certainly be easy to try if there are readers in the border areas.

But hey, a fella can imagine, can't he? :)

Originally posted by cclittle
Hmmm... I wonder if those of us in lower-revision areas could send our boxes to those of us in higher-revision areas for the updates?

Probably wouldn't work, as I assume the cable company's only broadcast to specific MAC addys, and the update push is probably done as a one-up thing. Not to mention the boxes might not work once they got back. It would certainly be easy to try if there are readers in the border areas.

But hey, a fella can imagine, can't he? :)

That is a good question, I also assume it goes by mac addys that are in that current systems database, so I do think it will not work but I guess there would be no harm in trying......

So how did everyone like the CSN-HD feed last night of the NBA All-Star Skills game. I think it was done very well as far as the camera work and telecast, and the picture was exceptionally good....

Miatasm,

One thing for the wish list:

We must make sure that for those of us (ME:D!!!) with RGBHV displays that don't have YPbPr component inputs and use a transcoder, have the capability of stripping off the Tri-level sync from the 5100's YPbPr output for compatibilty with Bi-level sync only RGBHV input displays. It doesn't seem that the KD transcoder I currently use does the sync stripping correctly. I get a green screen when I use my bi-level sync RGBHV input card in my T-A-W HD800 (Marquee 8110+ chassis) CRT projector. To get a proper signal I have to use my HDTV input card that accepts tri-level sync, but the image blinks on and off and is very annoying. Also, this card is VERY rare and not easily attainable so is not a viable option. This also doesn't do anything for those people that have a bi-level only VGA/RGBHV input on their RPTV and no YPbPr input. Something MUST be done or these people are left with not being able to use the 5100 for HD from Comcast, etc., unless they buy a relatively expensive tri-level to bi-level sync transcoder/converter like the Extron CVC-200. (I am looking for one if anyone's selling BTW;)!!!).

This would also most likely cure the black level issue discussed previously since when you utilize tri-level sync, it results in a darker image as discussed in other threads on this forum.

Does ayone here have success with an RGBHV bi-level only input card, a KD transcoder and a 5100???

Another item for the wishlist:

It isn't a "gotta have", but it would be nice to have native format output, i.e., if the signal is 720p, output 720p; if it's 1080i, output 1080i. This is useful for anyone with multiple-scan rate capable display devices (e.g., CRT FPs), or who prefer their device's convertors (e.g., I'm really fond of Sony's DRC).

I would think that, since the 5100 is capable of receiving and converting to and from either of these rates, it should be relatively easy to implement a pass thru.

Claude

Dave
Why not get a unit with DVI output ( non HDCP). You can then inexpensively trascode the signal to VGA? I'm in the same boat as you, as I have a 10pg.

Gary

Gary,

Good idea, but I'm pretty sure that the 5100's eventual DVI output is going to incorporate HDCP, no???

Originally posted by DHarp193
Gary,

Good idea, but I'm pretty sure that the 5100's eventual DVI output is going to incorporate HDCP, no???

When I asked the Motorola rep about DVI he couldn't give me a definative answer on whether or not it was HDCP? I have e-mailed him to find out.

My 5100 was delivered 10 minutes ago, and there is a DVI connector on the back of it. I will have to scrounge a DVI cable, but if the connector is present is it likely to be active?

Channel 172 is not on now (message about requiring subscription). Should it be?

CKarras, you should get 172 for free. I would call and see if they can hit your box. I would be interested in getting a DVI box as long as it is HDCP enabled and there was a DVHS recorder with a DVI input to record. Since I do not believe there is, I have no use for DVI at this time. Is there such a recorder out there?

Originally posted by JWhip
...and there was a DVHS recorder with a DVI input to record. ... Is there such a recorder out there?
Since the signal being sent over DVI is uncompressed, it is not currently practical to record the signal. This is why the studios like DVI so much. HDCP would encrypt it so that it can't be recompressed and it becomes too much data to deal with in any meaningful way.

That is why I will keep the 5100 I have until they add firewire for recording on dvhs.

Is anyone getting real DD5.1 sound from their Motorola 5100 when Comcast indicates that the signal contains DD5.1 (e.g. when SHO or HBO is showing a DD5.1 program)?

In the few minutes I looked, my receiver was detecting DD5.1 on a HBO-HD program.

No DVI to D-VHS recording, and I don't think the box has HDCP (although my plasma does, but I hope the DVI input will look a bit better than component. Something to test....

Originally posted by CKarras
My 5100 was delivered 10 minutes ago, and there is a DVI connector on the back of it. I will have to scrounge a DVI cable, but if the connector is present is it likely to be active?

Ckarras: Any luck trying the DVI connection from the 5100? What are you connecting it too?

My pioneer 503cmx has a DVI port --- straight DVI is gorgeous off my PC -- so I am am very curious

Michael M

I hooked up a DVI cable that came with a PC monitor and do not have a signal through it to my Fujitsu P50 plasma. The bootloader on the STB is 2.16 and the firmware is 2.46. I do not see any place where I can turn the DVI connector on. Any thoughts?

In addition, I noted that my SNR is 14.9 dB which is noted to be "Fair." I guess that is the cable signal strength. How does that compare to what others see? (I can't remember which menu item that was under.) And of course the diagnostics info shows no 1394 connector present or hard disk present..... :-(

Originally posted by Bill Cruce
Is anyone getting real DD5.1 sound from their Motorola 5100 when Comcast indicates that the signal contains DD5.1 (e.g. when SHO or HBO is showing a DD5.1 program)?

Yes, via optical cable into my receiver.

could anyone with a motorola w/ dvi tell us what areas they are being shipped to?

please tell us what area you live in

-jeff

Can someone tell me how to check software and firmware version?

Noted in this thread: here. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=1841423#post1841423)

Originally posted by trancer23
could anyone with a motorola w/ dvi tell us what areas they are being shipped to?

Jeff- I'm in Philadelpiha.

Thx Chris!

"Is anyone getting real DD5.1 sound from their Motorola 5100 when Comcast indicates that the signal contains DD5.1"

I am here - make sure you are using one of the digital outs, and not the stereo RCA jacks. I am using the optical, and the 5.1 is great! I can even see different feeds switching between "Stereo PCM" to "Dolby 2.0" (according to my Sony 333ES)

Just got my Motorola 5100 installed on Saturday, and after spending sometime here I learned that I could change my settings using the menu fuction on the box. I thought I would play with these settings by turning off the box and pressing menu, which I had to press multiple times for it to stay on the screen, and when I changed the 4:3 Pull Down menu from 480i to OFF I can't view the menu and can't pull it back up to change it back. Any help with this Noob mistake is much appreciated. BTW its a 4:3 Panasonic Tau.

Originally posted by Carmy08
Just got my Motorola 5100 installed on Saturday, and after spending sometime here I learned that I could change my settings using the menu fuction on the box. I thought I would play with these settings by turning off the box and pressing menu, which I had to press multiple times for it to stay on the screen, and when I changed the 4:3 Pull Down menu from 480i to OFF I can't view the menu and can't pull it back up to change it back. Any help with this Noob mistake is much appreciated. BTW its a 4:3 Panasonic Tau.

you should be able to change it back by looking at the leds on the cable box - at least to get to a mode you can see on screen (off menu - do your changes menu power on)

Does anyone know whether Comcast supplies an optical audio cable. I am getting a 5100 installation on Wednesday. All other cables (2 components, s-video and composite are already behind the wall and my dvd/reciever is all set. All I need from Comcast is an optical cable or should I just go out and buy one.

I asked for component cables and the installer came equiped with cables for composite. They worked, but I'm replacing with coax and RCA connectors. I didn't ask for an optical connector, just used the coax.

I live in NJ -- the installer did not have a optical or coax digital cable -- in fact he was a bit inexperienced and had never used one.

I'd go out and buy it. -- My installer came with decent component and analog cables for sound

Michael M

Originally posted by RalphArch
you should be able to change it back by looking at the leds on the cable box


Thanks! It was literally staring me in the face. =)

Originally posted by AKR
Does anyone know whether Comcast supplies an optical audio cable. I am getting a 5100 installation on Wednesday. All other cables (2 components, s-video and composite are already behind the wall and my dvd/reciever is all set. All I need from Comcast is an optical cable or should I just go out and buy one.

He may have cables but don't count on it. Go buy your own. It will make it much easier for both of you.

Originally posted by Carmy08
Just got my Motorola 5100 installed on Saturday, and after spending sometime here I learned that I could change my settings using the menu fuction on the box. I thought I would play with these settings by turning off the box and pressing menu, which I had to press multiple times for it to stay on the screen, and when I changed the 4:3 Pull Down menu from 480i to OFF I can't view the menu and can't pull it back up to change it back. Any help with this Noob mistake is much appreciated. BTW its a 4:3 Panasonic Tau.

You can use the front of the boxs' LED display panel to set it up also.

Power off --> press "menu"

TV type --> right arrow to 4:3 Pan & Scan, 4:3 Letterbox, & 16:9
down arrow to
YPbPr --> right arrow to 1080i, 720p, 480p, & 480i
arrow down to
480 override --> right arrow to 480i, 480p, & off

Power "on"

Hope this helps

Originally posted by trancer23
could anyone with a motorola w/ dvi tell us what areas they are being shipped to?

please tell us what area you live in

-jeff

Yes, I'm interested in knowing this as well. I'm in Rockville, MD and would like to know whether my 5100 would come with DVI output. If not, I am not interested in ordering their service since my upcoming set up (front projector) offers DVI input for an all-digital path.

Anyone know where I can find a full, detailed spec sheet on the 5100? I checked the Motorola web site but didn't find it there. In particular I'd like to know about its inputs and outputs and scaler.

Originally posted by lovingdvd
Anyone know where I can find a full, detailed spec sheet on the 5100? I checked the Motorola web site but didn't find it there. In particular I'd like to know about its inputs and outputs and scaler.

The only spec sheet avail is here (http://gicout60.gic.gi.com/customer_docs/user_guides/495012-001-a.pdf) and it doesn't diagram any of the internal specs (ie scaler) but it should help a little.

Originally posted by lovingdvd
Yes, I'm interested in knowing this as well. I'm in Rockville, MD and would like to know whether my 5100 would come with DVI output. If not, I am not interested in ordering their service since my upcoming set up (front projector) offers DVI input for an all-digital path.

All NEW 5100 being shipped from the Motorola factory are equipped with DVI, but be aware there are hundreds of thousands already in the field that do not have DVI, so be patient when requesting a DVI box.

called comcast in ocean county, nj (brick twnshp) and they are on the SA system, any idea if they might switch to motorola?

Does anyone know if there is another way to find the boot-loader and other info of the 5100? I've tried turning the box off and pressing setup on my remote but nothing comes up. When I press menu I get the menu for output and CC but I can't get the setup screen to come up so I can find version #, etc.
Any ideas? I'm using the Comcast remote which is the same one that came w/ the SA box and sidecar. Does the remote need a different setup code? Where can I find codes to program the remote for my other devices as well as the Motorola box?

Thanks,
Chris H.

All NEW 5100 being shipped from the Motorola factory are equipped with DVI, but be aware there are hundreds of thousands already in the field that do not have DVI, so be patient when requesting a DVI box.

Miatasm,

I called Comcast asking if I can swap my current box with a 5100 DVI enabled box and they insisted they had no such thing. Even spoke with a supervisor who went so far as to go to the Motorola website, looked at the specs of the 5100 and insisted they [Comcast] don't offer that feature. So I gave up. Anyway, I'll give them a break as he is probably telling the truth, he just wasn't aware of it, actually didn't even know what it was. So, I will try again this week, and see if I get someone different, or even to see if its in the system yet.

Mr. Mayor

Originally posted by Kipper717
Does anyone know if there is another way to find the boot-loader and other info of the 5100? I've tried turning the box off and pressing setup on my remote but nothing comes up.

Try pressing select on your remote as soon as the box shuts off. It can be a little tricky, but if you do it quickly enough the service menu should display. I think you want to scroll down to "Code Objects" or something, it's about the 7th or 8th item from the top of the menu. Good luck.

Originally posted by trancer23
called comcast in ocean county, nj (brick twnshp) and they are on the SA system, any idea if they might switch to motorola?

Not anytime soon, sorry....

Originally posted by Kipper717
Does anyone know if there is another way to find the boot-loader and other info of the 5100? I've tried turning the box off and pressing setup on my remote but nothing comes up. When I press menu I get the menu for output and CC but I can't get the setup screen to come up so I can find version #, etc.
Any ideas? I'm using the Comcast remote which is the same one that came w/ the SA box and sidecar. Does the remote need a different setup code? Where can I find codes to program the remote for my other devices as well as the Motorola box?

Thanks,
Chris H.

You can get to the bootloader info By Powering the 5100 "off" then press "OK/SELECT" within 2 sec. ...from there arrow down to "code modules" and press "OK/select".

The manual for the remote is:

http://test.starstream.net/support/cable/navigator.pdf

Originally posted by Mr. Mayor
Miatasm,

I called Comcast asking if I can swap my current box with a 5100 DVI enabled box and they insisted they had no such thing. Even spoke with a supervisor who went so far as to go to the Motorola website, looked at the specs of the 5100 and insisted they [Comcast] don't offer that feature. So I gave up. Anyway, I'll give them a break as he is probably telling the truth, he just wasn't aware of it, actually didn't even know what it was. So, I will try again this week, and see if I get someone different, or even to see if its in the system yet.

Mr. Mayor

Now we all know this is wrong. Unfortunatly it depends on the person you talk to and the system you live in. It seems the boxes have been shipped and are getting out in the field in Philly. It may take a little longer for the outer regions to get them, again Be Patient, but persistant you will eventually get someone who knows whats going on.

For the first time since the 5100 has been installed in December have I seen a picture of the quality level of the HD NBA All Stars game. The picture quality and color rendition were outstanding.

This only proves that it is not the 5100 box that causes poor picture quaity like Comcast of Baltimore is claiming when you complain about picture.

It is the compression of HBO or Show or ABC or NBC signals that create grain in the picture. Still no excuses Comcast put out quite a sharp picture both Saturday pregame and Sunday game - so why can't they do that more often or the networks and HBO.

Still looking for more high quality HD.:)

Is ANYONE out there getting this channel? It's 6:20PM and there's nothing on. I wasn't going to even try it until Saturday's Flyers game but I though I'd give it a look and...nothing.

Comcast left a message on my answering machine stating it's be available Feb 15th but it seems some people here are seeing it now. What's the deal??

Bill

I am not getting any programming on that channel with the exception of the all star basketball game. I do not think the channel comes on officially until february 15th. I am not sure why some people seem to be getting more broadcasting than others.............

Originally posted by drmag
For the first time since the 5100 has been installed in December have I seen a picture of the quality level of the HD NBA All Stars game. The picture quality and color rendition were outstanding.

It is the compression of HBO or Show or ABC or NBC signals that create grain in the picture. Still no excuses Comcast put out quite a sharp picture both Saturday pregame and Sunday game - so why can't they do that more often or the networks and HBO.

Huh? Maybe it is your box, because my HD - from SHO, HBO, PBS, NBC, ABC and the All-Star Game - has been great from Comcast using the 5100. Sure, some programs look better than others, but for the most part, I've had nothing to complain about. HBO's upconversion process annoys me and NBC's HD is hit and miss, but the others have been great.

The All-Star game was one of the few programs shown in HD VIDEO (aside from Leno and the Super Bowl) on Comcast which is why it looks so much better than most anything shot on film. All HD video will look more vibrant and lifelike than film no matter what equipment you're using.

Got the 5100 a few weeks ago, and now have the guts to post.

Biggest problem is, when I use digital coax (instead of optical) and
switch from analog to digital stations my receiver (Rotel) has problems
recognizing the new signal. When switching from, say, comedy central to
PBS demo loop, I end up with white noise for audio. If I use an optical
cable, the Rotel switches fine, but it pops and crackles really loud
every time. I'm pretty sure this is a flaw with the Rotel, but I'd be
curious if others are seeing this.

I'm at bootloader 2.16 and firmware 2.46. Does this mean that my 2-99
chan. are supposed to be better? Cause they don't look it. I'm still
better off watching raw cable into the TV (Tosh 65HDX82) and using the
5100 for audio. Annoying 'cause I have to change the channel twice
every time.

I really like the idea of having some color bars available at least part
of the time. I'd be more than happy to store multiple color/brightness
settings for analog/digital/HD/etc. Anything to make the color or
2-99 look human (which it still doesn't). Sorry if this sounds so
negative, since moto is doing a good job of pushing out upgrades often.
Just thought they would want to hear honest feed back.

The Audio difference from analog to digital is really annoying too.
Ditto on hoping it can be fixed. Maybe have some option to manually
change the gain level depending on the type of Dolby signal? Just a
thought.

Last thing. My Toshiba does a really good job of stretching 4:3 content.
Non HD shows still look better on the HD channel. However, since the
moto adds the black bars, I have burn in concerns. Would there be a
way to watch the HD chan 4:3 content w/o the pillar box?

Hi mattmc - What city are you in? Did your 5100 come with a DVI output? Thanks!

Originally posted by mattmc
Biggest problem is, when I use digital coax (instead of optical) and
switch from analog to digital stations my receiver (Rotel) has problems
recognizing the new signal.

My HK 320 does not have this issue. All channels come in fine with coax audio. Just use an optical cable?

I'm at bootloader 2.16 and firmware 2.46. Does this mean that my 2-99
chan. are supposed to be better?

New revisions are still coming, I'm told, to address the 2-99 issues. On my Fujitsu P50 plasma they look pretty good now, though. I have the same firmware as you.

Last thing. My Toshiba does a really good job of stretching 4:3 content.
Non HD shows still look better on the HD channel. However, since the
moto adds the black bars, I have burn in concerns. Would there be a
way to watch the HD chan 4:3 content w/o the pillar box?

Sounds like a 4:3 override issue. Maybe someone can help.

I think I have a bad box or bad lines coming into my house...

On my standard tv upstairs, I have standard cable (ch 1-99) and a bunch are all fuzzy...

On my hdtv downstairs, even PBS is looking like crap in HD... and the allstar game was to spectacular..

What shoudld I do?

I'm in Ann Arbor MI (same service as Detroit).

Box didn't come with DVI. I've had it for about a month. I don't want
to think about it, though. Just spent a lot on a really nice 40 foot
long component cable and don't want to pay $$ again for a DVI cable.

As for the cable, yeah optical does "fix" it. Would be nice if they
both worked the same, though.

My understanding is the 4:3 override only takes affect on non-HD channels.
I'm talking about viewing the HD channel in 4:3 mode if the source
material is 4:3. I.E. watch the local NBC news on the HD channel,
but have the moto output 4:3 so my Toshiba TV can stretch it. Yeah,
I could just watch the NBC analog channel, but like I said, NBC always
looks better on the HD feed, with or without HD content.

Do the boxes with DVI also have component outs as well? I might as well ask for a switch if they have both.....

Matt -- just curious: what Rotel unit are you using, and are you on fairly current Rotel firmware? (Not that I know of recent fixes, but I know there are some recent upgrades to 1065/1055.)

Rotel is RTC-965

Firmware for my receiver? Wow, now that's something I never thought of. Time to investigate.

Originally posted by rouge1
Do the boxes with DVI also have component outs as well? I might as well ask for a switch if they have both.....

I would think that it would output the signal to the DVI port as well as the component outputs simultaneously. Then again, now that I'm thinking about it, perhaps you have to tell the unit via its menu which output to enable. Humm. Anyone know?

Anyone know if the latest 5100 boxes with DVI ouput are HDCP compliant? Thanks.

Originally posted by mattmc
My understanding is the 4:3 override only takes affect on non-HD channels.
I'm talking about viewing the HD channel in 4:3 mode if the source
material is 4:3. I.E. watch the local NBC news on the HD channel,
but have the moto output 4:3 so my Toshiba TV can stretch it. Yeah,
I could just watch the NBC analog channel, but like I said, NBC always
looks better on the HD feed, with or without HD content. mattmc,

One way around it is to set the component output to 480P and the TV type to 4x3 Pan&Scan. The 5100 will zoom in on the center of the picture (eliminating the side bars). I watched the Ohio State/Miami game like that; it looked very good.

One problem with this approach occurs when you change the channel to one that is showing a high def 16x9 picture - you need to go back to the 5100's menu and restore the TV type & component output. For going back and forth between such channels, this approach is not practical.

Miatasm did mention a long ways back that the aspect ratio issue with side bars is something that Motorola is looking into. He said that it wasn't known which approach Motorola will take, i.e. if they will have it as a menu option or if it will be something that the 5100 will automatically do when it detects the bars.

Yeah, I do recall Miatasm saying they were looking into some solution. I just wanted to go on record as saying if they build a stretch mode into the moto, it had better be as good as Toshiba's stretch. Frankly, I'd rather rely on my TV to stretch. Hence the desire to have the pillarbox "feature" something that could go away.

Your idea about changing to 4:3 pan scan is an interesting one. I tried it, and now I'm not sure it's that much better (except NBC, which looks really bad on analog). This might just have to be my "West Wing" option until they get their act together and shoot in HD. Thanx for all your help.

Matt,

I'm using the coax out of the 5100 to my Rotel RSP-1066 Pre/Pro and do not get any of the problems you are experiencing with audio. Check your audio setting in both the 5100 and your Rotel. I'm using an IXOS cable for what it's worth.

Bill

Originally posted by mattmc
My understanding is the 4:3 override only takes affect on non-HD channels.
I'm talking about viewing the HD channel in 4:3 mode if the source
material is 4:3. I.E. watch the local NBC news on the HD channel,
but have the moto output 4:3 so my Toshiba TV can stretch it. Yeah,
I could just watch the NBC analog channel, but like I said, NBC always
looks better on the HD feed, with or without HD content.

This can never happen. HD is only a 16:9 format, the stations are adding the black bars on the side when they broadcast. So the black bars are part of the signal that the 5100 is receiving. I guess it is remotely possible that motorola could cook up an algorithm to recognize when a broadcast had black bars added instead of regular content and downconvert to 4:3 480p or something but that would be very complex and not worth the effort. Additionally it looks to me like the 4:3 material on the HD channels is actually wider than 4:3 like the stations are stretching or zooming it just a bit.

Originally posted by Bill_B4
Is ANYONE out there getting this channel? It's 6:20PM and there's nothing on. I wasn't going to even try it until Saturday's Flyers game but I though I'd give it a look and...nothing.

Comcast left a message on my answering machine stating it's be available Feb 15th but it seems some people here are seeing it now. What's the deal??

Bill

The NBA game was just a teaser & a test for Comcast. It looked very good. Comcast will put Ch 172 back up, most likely on Saturday Afternoon sometime. Don't worry it will be there for the game.

Originally posted by mattmc
Yeah, I do recall Miatasm saying they were looking into some solution. I just wanted to go on record as saying if they build a stretch mode into the moto, it had better be as good as Toshiba's stretch. Frankly, I'd rather rely on my TV to stretch. Hence the desire to have the pillarbox "feature" something that could go away.

Your idea about changing to 4:3 pan scan is an interesting one. I tried it, and now I'm not sure it's that much better (except NBC, which looks really bad on analog). This might just have to be my "West Wing" option until they get their act together and shoot in HD. Thanx for all your help.

The stretch mode will most likely be designed for the HD channels. I'm also assuming that it will be able to be overridden. Motorola has done a fine job so far with making the enhancements to the box without leaving anyone stranded. So I have confidence in Motorolas' ability to make an upgrade of this sort without changing the original abilities of the box.

Originally posted by sillygoose
This can never happen. HD is only a 16:9 format, the stations are adding the black bars on the side when they broadcast. So the black bars are part of the signal that the 5100 is receiving. I guess it is remotely possible that motorola could cook up an algorithm to recognize when a broadcast had black bars added instead of regular content and downconvert to 4:3 480p or something but that would be very complex and not worth the effort. Additionally it looks to me like the 4:3 material on the HD channels is actually wider than 4:3 like the stations are stretching or zooming it just a bit.

Actually it can happen. You are right that the stations are adding the black bars. But there are TV's on the market now that can stretch the picture.(Hitachi, Mitsubishi, & others) will basically "zoom in" to the picture even if its 1080i. For most TV's you cannot do this, but just knowing that there are TV's that can means that it is possible for folks @ Motorola to do this also.

You will notice that on some of the Broadcasters (I think ABC) feeds during the day look a little wider (appears to be an "off-center" 4:3 feed) I have been told is actually a 14:9 format & it IS HD. So in this case a stretch mode would help, because the PQ is much better than the Analog feed & there would only be a small amount of distortion (hopefully) by using a stretch mode. I don't think they will implement it as an automatic setting.

Originally posted by lovingdvd
Anyone know if the latest 5100 boxes with DVI ouput are HDCP compliant? Thanks.

I'm waiting for a response from Motorola about this....My guess is No.

I will post when I know for sure. Or maybe Ken H knows....

Off the topic:

I have recieved just 1 stinkin' e-mail about the FAQ....I need some feedback and I want all of you to be involved in making it as helpful as possible to new users. e-mail me miatasm@hotmail.com....I will send you a link to the current rough draft.

The Code download that enabled the DVI outputs is finally completed in the Philly region, what I did find out was that Motorola split the DVI update and the Analog PQ update into 2 seperate updates. The PQ update should be sent out across the Philly Region (PA,NJ) on the 18th, 19th, & 20th depending where you live.

Originally posted by rouge1
Do the boxes with DVI also have component outs as well? I might as well ask for a switch if they have both.....

Yes the boxes have component outputs as well. And most likely they will both be on......CKarras has one and will be testing its functionality soon.

Originally posted by rouge1
I think I have a bad box or bad lines coming into my house...

On my standard tv upstairs, I have standard cable (ch 1-99) and a bunch are all fuzzy...

On my hdtv downstairs, even PBS is looking like crap in HD... and the allstar game was to spectacular..

What shoudld I do?

If your other TV's look bad then it is possible that this is causing a graininess on your HDTV using the 5100. I suggest calling up to have a tech check the cable runs in your home & at the street, to verify where the problem lies.

The PBS loop as well as all HD material is Digital so I don't know what you mean by looking like crap. Are you talking about "microblocking"? This is evident usually on Fast moving objects, but for the most part the PBS loop looks very good.

Originally posted by miatasm
I'm waiting for a response from Motorola about this....My guess is No.

I will post when I know for sure. Or maybe Ken H knows....

Off the topic:

I have recieved just 1 stinkin' e-mail about the FAQ....I need some feedback and I want all of you to be involved in making it as helpful as possible to new users. e-mail me miatasm@hotmail.com....I will send you a link to the current rough draft.

I spoke with Moto yesterday about HDCP, and Andrea told me it would not be available until the end of the year.
Our local cable provider currently has no intentions of bring in units with DVI. Would Comcast be willing to sell one direct? What is the cost of the unit with DVI?

Gary

Originally posted by Gary Gleave
I spoke with Moto yesterday about HDCP, and Andrea told me it would not be available until the end of the year.
Our local cable provider currently has no intentions of bring in units with DVI. Would Comcast be willing to sell one direct? What is the cost of the unit with DVI?

Gary

This maybe because your in Canada. But I was told that ALL new boxes being shipped are equipped with the DVI. It just may not be enabled, enabling the DVI is a decision that your local Cable Provider will make.

AFA buying a 5100 from Comcast, It maybe an option in the future, but unless they are selling them now, you will not be able to buy one from them. Even if you could, your specific Cable system would have to be willing & able to activate it. I could only speculate on cost, my guess about $500-$700 US. Just a guess, though.

Originally posted by miatasm
Actually it can happen. You are right that the stations are adding the black bars. But there are TV's on the market now that can stretch the picture.(Hitachi, Mitsubishi, & others) will basically "zoom in" to the picture even if its 1080i. For most TV's you cannot do this, but just knowing that there are TV's that can means that it is possible for folks @ Motorola to do this also.


This is not what I was saying could never happen. The original poster wanted 4:3 output. You can't get 4:3 at 1080i or 720p there isn't an HD format for that. You are certainly correct about the possibility of a zoom or stretch. I have a Hitachi that has a 16:9 zoom mode that works for HD material. Are there sets or STBs out there that have a stretch for HD? My zoom is only really useful for 4:3 faux 16:9 broadcast at 16:9 with side black bars. The zoom makes it look like a real 16:9.

Thanks for the info on the 14:9 format.

"Is ANYONE out there getting this channel? It's 6:20PM and there's nothing on. I wasn't going to even try it until Saturday's Flyers game but I though I'd give it a look and...nothing.

Comcast left a message on my answering machine stating it's be available Feb 15th but it seems some people here are seeing it now. What's the deal?? "
Comcast isn't sending anything out unless there's something scheduled. After the NBA All-Star game there was a test pattern for a while. Be patient and wait for Saturday.

Chris H.

Originally posted by Kipper717
"Is ANYONE out there getting this channel? It's 6:20PM and there's nothing on. I wasn't going to even try it until Saturday's Flyers game but I though I'd give it a look and...nothing.

Comcast left a message on my answering machine stating it's be available Feb 15th but it seems some people here are seeing it now. What's the deal?? "
Comcast isn't sending anything out unless there's something scheduled. After the NBA All-Star game there was a test pattern for a while. Be patient and wait for Saturday.

Chris H.

It will be on & off. Some people will get it periodically thoughout the week as they test it. Everyone just relax. If you got the All-Star Game you will get the Flyers Game on Sat.

The channel isn't officially online til' The 15th, so technically you can't start complaining until then. :D :D

Originally posted by sillygoose
This is not what I was saying could never happen. The original poster wanted 4:3 output. You can't get 4:3 at 1080i or 720p there isn't an HD format for that. You are certainly correct about the possibility of a zoom or stretch. I have a Hitachi that has a 16:9 zoom mode that works for HD material. Are there sets or STBs out there that have a stretch for HD? My zoom is only really useful for 4:3 faux 16:9 broadcast at 16:9 with side black bars. The zoom makes it look like a real 16:9.

Thanks for the info on the 14:9 format.

I think I just misunderstood his post, and now it makes more sense. And you are correct that it would be a MAJOR hassle for Motorola to get the 5100 to output 4:3.

AFA the 14:9, (It is ABC BTW) I was told that this was happening, but had never heard of it before, so I'm still skeptical on the reason the broadcaster would do this, or even if its actually true. Anyone know for sure, what the deal is?

Will the DVI output be higher quality than the component out?
Will it be the same? If so at least that would free up a component input on my TV (Toshiba 57HDX82) and I wouldn't have to use my A/V receiver as a switcher.
Where can I get a DVI cable and how much will it cost?