Please post your comments here if you:

- Have Comcast HDTV w/Moto 5100 STB.
- Have received the Upgrade

Also, please list your location, software & firmware versions.

Thanks.

Always one step ahead of the rest of us aren't you Ken! :D

Here in Montclair, NJ area I got the upgrade sometime overnight and aside from the fact that my Comcast Cable internet connection isn't working this morning (hmmm...) everything appears to have gone smoothly.

The PQ has improved noticeably on nearly all stations, including the horrible non-digital 1-99 which are now watchable. I have the new 4:3 override option set to 480i so now when non HD channels are tuned, the picture is automatically stretched to fill the screen. No more turning off the DCT-5100 to change the menu settings, it's done automatically.

The HD PQ looked great before and still does from the limitted exposure I've had to it this morning.

The new software version is: 51.00-1132.
The new firmware version is: 00.

You know, Comcast gets ripped a lot in forums around the internet for its poor customer service, etc., well I think they deserve some big kudos for getting a fix so quickly for the DCT-5100. It appears to me that they want to be leaders in the HD cable industry and I applaud them for taking such big steps so quickly. I'm hoping it'll be a happy marriage.

Holy Cow, my Comcast internet connection is hosed, too (I'm using my dial-up backup). I'll check the 5100 box soon...
-Dave

The promised 5100 software update occured during the night. There is now an additional setting in the set-top menu called 4:3 override which lets you choose 480i, 480p and off. The off setting is the way the software has worked up until today (ie. black bars on component non-HD and lousy picture on all other outputs (coax, composite and s-video) with no visible cable guide menus. The 480i and 480p settings now show full screen HD-channels on components. But also the other outputs show a much sharper image with access to the cable guide menus. Also noticed that the extra video signal on non-component analog channels is gone so no need to overscan .

no problem with broadband cable internet after update.

firmware version on diagnostic page -d8 code modules(not cable guide menu) is 2.40.

No cable internet this AM. Will check 5100 when I get home from work.

Got my box about a month ago.. got the new firmware about a week ago...
Im in Aston, PA.

First, COMCAST NEEDS TO SUPPLY ALL OF THEIR INSTALLERS WITH COMPONENT CABLES!! I have had 3 friends, including me, who had the installer try to hook up their box with Composite cables... I laughed at the dude when he tried this, and said "Yo, thats no going to provide the best pic, you need RGB component cables... tell your boss to order some"... and then I proceeded to hook up my monster and bettercables..... I also used a monster OPTICAL for sound....

SECOND, the sound output is WAY TO LOW on the HD and DIgital channels...
WHen I change to channel 1-100, my receiver is blarring!!! I have to crank the volume down....... Does anyone else experience this? Is this only happening on Optical out? I have an onkyo txsr600

anyways, the install dude installed like 5 boxes at other peoples houses before he got to my house, and after I SHOWED HIM HOW TO INSTALL IT, he was blown away by the picture (the breeders cup happened to be on, and was in 1080i hd).... he said he couldnt get anyone else's HD to work it seemed...
I have a 57" Sony KP57hw40....

Next, I am not certain of this yet, but you might have to take the 5100 out of the looop if you plan on playing xbox live.... I think the internal modem (even though its disabled) might be conflicting with my linksys cable modem....

Also, how do i set the Time to display on the box???? With the new firmware...

Anyways, so far I give comcast a b+

GET CBS and HDNET SOON and you get a A-

Rouge1,

No problem here with X-Box Live and I have a Linksys router also.

Also no problem with audio disparity/fluctuation.

You can get the time by going into the Settings selection on the main menu (with the box on) and choosing the display time to yes instead of no.

Oh, my cable modem was back about 7-7:30. Checked a couple of other forums on-line and it seems that Comcast was doing some node switching and a lot of people were down for a while.

How 'plasma friendly' is the 5100? Have they made any effort at all to avoid burn in?

How would a STB help a plasma avoid burn in? I thought all you could do is adjust contranst and brightness properly and not display static images for long periods of time.

I haven't tried it yet, but it appears that the download should make the 5100 much more plasma-friendly, by allowing you to zoom non-HD (i.e., 4:3) material to fill the screen.

To those of you who have had a chance to play with the upgraded 5100 - what's the best video output for the non-HD pictures? Are you using the component output into the HD video inputs on your displays? Or, is it better to use the composite, S-video, or coax? Or, for non-HD analog channels (1-99) is it better to bypass the box altogether and use the cable line directly into the display tuner?

Thank

IMHO a 'plasma friendly' GUI could have the following as options:

- provide a low brightness or transparent graphic option for onscreen controls (i.e. compare the channel logo for Sci Fi channel with TNN or the History Channel).

- automatically hide onscreen controls after a set period

- provide a screensaver if a static menu screen is left in place for too long.

A really advanced GUI could also build in an orbiter type function that would gradually change the location of the OSD over time.

Steven--I now see no difference between the 5100's non-component analog channels and a direct cable input into the monitor. (using 4:3 overide set to 480i). Both look as good as analog channels can IMHO. My setup does not currently allow me to use components for anything other than 1080i.

No upgrade in Montgomery County, MD last night.:mad: :mad:

Originally posted by rouge1
Got my box about a month ago.. got the new firmware about a week ago...
Im in Aston, PA.

First, COMCAST NEEDS TO SUPPLY ALL OF THEIR INSTALLERS WITH COMPONENT CABLES!! I have had 3 friends, including me, who had the installer try to hook up their box with Composite cables... I laughed at the dude when he tried this, and said "Yo, thats no going to provide the best pic, you need RGB component cables... tell your boss to order some"... and then I proceeded to hook up my monster and bettercables..... I also used a monster OPTICAL for sound....



I hope you weren't rude to the technician, it does seem like you were coming off as a bit of a jerk by your quote. Most installers this is their first time hooking up anything HD. Most don't care if they have A/V cables or overpriced MonsterCable. They deal with what they are given and work from there. How long was the class you took on Home Theater? Oh, you didn't take a class, you probably learned most of your knowledge from experience and this forum. Well it doesn't seem like you treated this guy fairly, Even if he did hook-up 5 previous 5100's that is no where near enough to get him to learn all of the different connections, and setups avail. on the market.

I've heard all of the stories about the members of this forum, getting their 5100 installed and most have had inexpeirenced technicians, but non of them seemed to have disrespected the technician when he was there. They were all aware that this was a NEW service and since they were on this forum they knew what to expect, and most made it easy for the installer and even took the time out to educate the technician while he was there, without being disrespectful.

We know we need to supply component cables, We know we need to train the installers more intensely, I know alot of things that should be done, but the installers have to be willing to learn, and most of what NEEDS to be learned cannot be taught in a classroom, it can only be learned by experience. It seems like you were trying "flex your Home theater knowledge muscles" to this guy, because you knew that he was going to bring only A/V cables. Laughing at him, and disrespecting him will not help you if and when you have a service issue.

Well, I have customers that said to me "My Plasma TV is 24ft away from my equipment can't you just give me 4 sets of A/V 6ft cables and I'll barrel the sets together!" Now I DIDN'T say "YO! Thats gonna give you a crappy picture, you need to go back to your wife and ask her to buy you some 24ft long Monster RGB Component Cables!" I did explained to him why, how, & where to look for such a piece of equipment, and didn't make him feel incompetant.

Its not that easy for the technician to go back to his "boss" / supervisor, and say "Gimme some Component Cables!" It just doesn't work that way we will eventually have them, it just takes some time.

Nothing I learned about HDTV or Home Theater was taught to me by Comcast. I learned by experience, thats why I hold training classes on HD, Cable Modem/Computer, and new technology for my fellow technicians.

As a rule assume that the installer won't have the correct equipment, have your cables, have the area where the box is being installed easily accessable, the TV pulled out, anything that you think will make it easier for him, and I assure you the expeience will not be that bad.

BTW South Jersey Did NOT get the upgrade yet.

cjh-- Good points. Don't lose faith in your average customer!

Here in Baltimore County, I can report that the 5100 download fixed EVERYTHING on my 5100. My VOD works now, the auto switching between 1080i and 480i works flawlessly, and the OSD works on all channels. In my very humble opinion, I think the 5100 is just about ready for full roll out once CBS is on-line. CBS would complete the package to get the big 3 networks.

Regardless, this product is everything I expected now and it rocks. I will promote it to everyone I know that has compatible equipment.

- Adam

Got the upgrade today in Princeton, NJ. The new software version is: 51.00-1132. Everything looks good athough can't see the big impovement over channels 1-99.
P.S. The tech who did install at my house on Nov-15 was excelent and had component cables with him. Whole install took no more the 15 minutes with about 10 minutes me trying to switch my TV into HDTV mode.

Hello team, I want to be like you guys.

Having my comcast HD installed next weekend.
I haven't been able to feed my PJ anything other 480P DVDs and HTPC (768P)..
For those of you with the Comcast Motorola 5100, has anyone tried using their firewire port to output info yet????

I anything I need to prepare for to make my install a success??

Ok, here's the deal. The "update" occured at 12:30 am this morning in West Orange, NJ. Here's my observations.
1- I no longer have to switch inputs in order to view HD channels, it, the box, switches automatically.
2- I can now see the "info bar" as I surf all channels, analogue and HD.
3- Some changes were made to the cable box configuration and they are as follows.
a)The S/W Version changed from 51.00-1096 to 51.00-1132
b)Firmware Version changed from 04 to 00

The 1-99 channles still bite, channel 2 the worst. It did not affect my internet router. Thats it for now. So far I like what I see..its an improvement.

Mr. Mayor

mzk4c3,

Sorry to bum you out, but, your firewire dream will remain just that. While the 5100 has the 'option', it is a factory hardware option and the 5100's distributed by Comcast are fire-wire-less. Until someone is daring enough to open the box and solder a jack in there (I do wonder if all it is missing is a jack - - because the punchout on the casing is there and the PC board is there) - which I do not think Comcast would appreciate considering its their property - I guess you will be waiting like the rest of us.

- Adam

OK folks, I confused (not unusual)

I got the 5100 last week from Comcast Sellersville (PA) office, and had to switch manually between 1080i, 720P, 480i, and 480p to get HD on my TV. It now appears that there was a software upgrade last weekend, as I now see a few more options on the menu display. Like before the upgrade, I can only get the onscreen guide when the 5100 is set to 480i. But, does the 5100 automatically now switch to the correct HD resolution when you tune to a HD channel (720p for ABC, 1080i for PBS, HBO, etc.)? Those channels look very good, but I'm not positive I'm getting the highest resolution possible. When I set the 5100 to 720p or 1080i manually, I seem to get more audio dropouts and occasional pixellation on the HD channels. Finally, should I use the 16:9 setting on the 5100 menu since I have a Sony 34XBR800 widescreeen TV?

Any comments would be appreciated.

egl8

Originally posted by 1080iAddict Sorry to bum you out, but, your firewire dream will remain just that. While the 5100 has the 'option', it is a factory hardware option and the 5100's distributed by Comcast are fire-wire-less.This is true, for the time being.



Until someone is daring enough to open the box and solder a jack in there

If only it was that simple. Even if you had a 5100 w/Firewire, it has to be software enabled by Comcast.


I've been told they wanted to get the system up and running first, than they will look at other options, like Firewire. I was also told they will consider customer requests in this area very seriously.

For example, when the DCT-2000 was released, Comcast received very few requests for S-Video & Dolby Digital enabled units. This is the reason why they were not readily available: No demand.

So, if you really want Firewire, let them know. Politely and often.

A couple of issues:

On installers:
1. Miatasm makes some good points regarding cable installers, but I have a counterpoint. Installers have a responsibility to make sure they are doing their job properly. Yes, it is ultimately Comcast's responsibility to train them, but some installers don't give a crap and make little effort. And how hard is it to ask for proper cables? "Hey, (Supervisor), we really need to get some more component cables to install these 5100's. People are complaining." Pretty easy.

2. Besides having no clue about their own products (this is more often true with contractors), some installers half-ass their work, cut corners, flat out lie to avoid work or responsibility, etc. There is no excuse for leaving cut cable, and bits of wire and shielding thrown all over a customers house. Or leaving a line hanging on the house without tacking it up. Personal experience.

3. While I have dealt with some nice installers, the one I have dealt with three times here in Chalfont, PA. was a nasty jerk the second he walked through the door, every single time. This is in spite of the fact that every single time he came, I had the tv pulled out and everything cleared out of the way. I asked him how his day was going, if they were overloaded with work, anything to get the guy to stopped huffing and puffing every time he had to do anything cable related beyond climbing a pole and turning it on. I even asked him if he wanted a drink each time he was here. Still, nasty, nasty, nasty.

4. I say all of this as a former cable installer who has seen it from the inside. There are plenty of good ones, but too many bad ones.

On the 5100:
1. Firmware 2.40
2. Bootloader 2.15
3. Software version 51.00-1132
4. 2-99 still look like crap through the component cables.
5. Digital and HD look slightly sharper.
6. Autodetection of signal working great. My tv can now stretch the non-HD channels and display guide again w/o switching inputs.

elg8:

choose 1080i
16x9
and 4:3 - 480i

and you should be good to go..
if you have a widescreen set...

elg8...

In addition to the advice by rouge1, make sure you are using component cables and your TV is set to the component input for those cables. This may be why you do not see the on screen display when on the HD channels, but you see it while on the other channels.

- Adam

Originally posted by Ken H
So, if you really want Firewire, let them know. Politely and often.

How do you suggest doing this? I have sent 3 messages via the Comcast web site, each auto-acknowledged but none replied to. Is there a person at a snail mail address who should get our letters?

Good morning everyone….

Finally had the 5100 installed last night. Everything seems to be working great.


TV guide is available on both HD and non-HD channels.
VOD is working fine.
Picture quality on channels 1-99 are not bad, not quite as sharp as it was when viewing through the digital cable box, but not bad. In fact, after watching TV last night, I can’t tell the difference. I must be lucky, evey Comcast tech tells me I have the best picture quality they've seen!
Channel shifting and guide selections are much faster!


There is one quirk I can’t explain?

The original setup was like this:

Digital cable box connected to “input 1” through component cables (I have a 55” Mitsu) and was viewed by changing input to “Cable”.
The HD sidecar was connected to the “DTV” component inputs on the TV and was viewed by going to the “DTV” input.

The 5100 is connected only to the DTV component input on the TV along with the appropriate audio connections.

Even thought there is nothing connected to the “input 1” component plugs now, I can still switch the input on my remote to “Cable” (which is “Input 1” on the back of the set) and get a picture on channels 1 –99 that are slightly better than viewing it through the “DTV” input.

How am I getting a signal through “input 1” if nothing is connected to it?

Other than this, I’m very pleased with the whole thing!
Best of all, now due to the simplified operation of the remote, my wife is even happy!!

Originally posted by miatasm
I hope you weren't rude to the technician, it does seem like you were coming off as a bit of a jerk by your quote. Most installers this is their first time hooking up anything HD. Most don't care if they have A/V cables or overpriced MonsterCable. They deal with what they are given and work from there. How long was the class you took on Home Theater? Oh, you didn't take a class, you probably learned most of your knowledge from experience and this forum. Well it doesn't seem like you treated this guy fairly, Even if he did hook-up 5 previous 5100's that is no where near enough to get him to learn all of the different connections, and setups avail. on the market.

It's not unreasonable to expect someone to know what they're doing when installing something (it's their job). The guy should at least read the manual or handout for the product. The quick connect guide I got clearly explained how to hook up the 5100. You don't need training for it. 5 jobs are more than enough to figure out the connections needed. When I do a job, I make sure I know how to do the job before doing it. I wouldn't dream of doing a job without the proper knowledge and I expect the same of anyone doing work for me. You seem to be defending fellow technicians and making excuses for them. You don't need to. Installing a 5100 is not hard. 5 minutes of reading and you should have a very good idea of how to do it before even looking at the product (especially for a technician).

When I had the HDD200 side car installed, the technician knew exactly how to hook it up. He even had some very nice (thick) component cables with him. He did hem and haw about have to run a line into the basement, but after I firmly reminded him that it was his job to run the line and install the box and that it was the reason he was sent here, he got to work and did a nice job. I guess I'm a jerk too because I except someone to know how to do there job and do it without constantly complaining about it.

And to stay somewhat on topic, my 5100 was updated on November 21st. I'm in Jamison, PA (Warwick Township, Bucks County). Everything is working great just like the others have commented on. I still use my TV's turner for channels 1-99 though as they still look much better than on the 5100.

John

Flipped through the channels last night. Overall, my experience is the same as everyone else. VOD seems to be working fine now. Ch 2-11 have been improved, but Ch 2 continues to be horrible.

BTW, has anyone noticed increased red push from the 5100? I only get it on the component inputs from the 5100. All my other inputs are not pushing red as much. If it is the box, what's the model number of the Radio Shack attenuator?

Thanks in advance.

Pioneer SD533
Yamaha RXV620
Motorola 5100

Originally posted by GG2
Flipped through the channels last night. Overall, my experience is the same as everyone else. VOD seems to be working fine now. Ch 2-11 have been improved, but Ch 2 continues to be horrible.

BTW, has anyone noticed increased red push from the 5100? I only get it on the component inputs from the 5100. All my other inputs are not pushing red as much. If it is the box, what's the model number of the Radio Shack attenuator?

Thanks in advance.

Pioneer SD533
Yamaha RXV620
Motorola 5100

Yes, I too have noticed the red push. What will the attenuator do to solve that?

How can I check my software and firmware versions?

Have no idea what an attenuator does, but some of the Pioneer experts on the other forum are suggesting it. It's Radio Shack Part # 15-678. Will give it a go.

Just had the 5100 installed Tuesday night and I too have now noticed the red push!
I just did a PIP comparison bewteen Ant-A (raw cable feed) and the DTV input coming through the 5100. There is a definite red push!!
This is extremely upsetting as I paid big bucks several months ago to have my set calibrated professionally.
Is this a Comcast problem or Motorola problem.
I know if I call a Comcast Rep they will have no idea what RED Push Is!!!!

I just calle Comcast and they are going to send out a service tech on Sunday and probably swap out the box. I don't think this is gooing to solve the problem. I think the problem is in the 5100 software.

Originally posted by jgold
Just had the 5100 installed Tuesday night and I too have now noticed the red push!
I just did a PIP comparison bewteen Ant-A (raw cable feed) and the DTV input coming through the 5100. There is a definite red push!!
This is extremely upsetting as I paid big bucks several months ago to have my set calibrated professionally.
Is this a Comcast problem or Motorola problem.
I know if I call a Comcast Rep they will have no idea what RED Push Is!!!!

I havent noticed any redpush between cable feed and 5100 at 480i. As a matter of fact, 5100 seems to be a good decoder than my TV. Colors are more natural via 5100 at 480i.

BTW, dont trust the PIP comparisions, many TVs delibrately have different color settings for PIP windows. If you swap the pics in PIP windows, you might notice the red push stays in one window. Also, your TV might have different color settings for 480i via component and NTSC signals via coax, ke mine does.

The red push is there on the 1080i output via component cables. It's not there on the RF output. I haven't tried the 480i output via cables yet, but if there's no red push on 480i, that would leave only the 1080i decoding as te culprit.

Originally posted by GG2
The red push is there on the 1080i output via component cables. It's not there on the RF output. I haven't tried the 480i output via cables yet, but if there's no red push on 480i, that would leave only the 1080i decoding as te culprit.

YOu mean on non-HD material. If your set is displaying 1080i and RF in their original resolutions, there will be obvious differences, even in color. Non HD material looks much better at 1080i on my set, one of the obvious difference is unstreatched material. Try comparing 480i via component and coax, both streatched. To me, there are very little difference since my set upconverts everything to 1080i.

You mean on non-HD material.
______________________________

No, I mean when I switch the box to 1080i output, all channels show a very heavy red push. When I switch my TV's input to the regular cable RF feed, the red push is gone. I then switched the box to output 480i to the component cables, and the red push was gone. The red push wasn't there before the firmware update. Simple process of elimination leads me to think that it's another bug Motorola needs to address (I hope they're reading this)

My box configuration:

S/W Ver 51.00-1132
A/B: Disabled
Output 3
Region 0
MCA 0-15, 1-8194, 2-16643, 3-33527
IPPV: Yes
Stereo: Unknown 2
IR Blast: Yes
Firmware: 00

Originally posted by GG2
You mean on non-HD material.
______________________________

No, I mean when I switch the box to 1080i output, all channels show a very heavy red push. When I switch my TV's input to the regular cable RF feed, the red push is gone. I then switched the box to output 480i to the component cables, and the red push was gone. The red push wasn't there before the firmware update. Simple process of elimination leads me to think that it's another bug Motorola needs to address (I hope they're reading this)



You might be right. There is also another possibility. Did you get 1080i mode calibrate on your TV?

Did you get 1080i mode calibrate on your TV?

_________________________________________


I did not. But since the red push wasn't there last week on the 1080i output, I believe it's an issue with the box, since I immediately noticed it after the update.

anybody having trouble with the 5100 this evening? Mine is taking forever to change channels and bring the menu bar up. This just started this evening.

pataural9 - To check the firmware version you have, power off the 5100 and then press the "Select" button within a couple of seconds. This will pull up the Diagnostics Menu. Scroll down to item 8, which is called "Code Objects." You'll see some basic info on that screen, including something called "Firmware." It most likely will be 2.40. The Bootloader (which is burned into ROM and can't be upgraded via download) should be 2.15. The firmware version is all that really matters since that is what provides the User Settings menu screen and the HD/SD auto-mode functionality. If your firmware version is earlier than 2.40, then you won't have the new HD/SD auto-mode feature.

I e-mailed this problem to Chuck Williams, the ISF certified tech who calibrated my Mitsu and he replied:

I just had Comcast swap out my digital box and HD sidecar with the new Motorola DCT 5100 combo box. Now the red push is back.


Jules,

That's impossible. There must be some other explanation, because the only way red push could return is if you had the signal board replaced. I have never heard of anyone experiencing this. Besides, Mits sets never had "red push" on 1080i, they had improper color decoding parameters far worse than mere red push.

Wish I had more info for you, but without seeing it myself, I have no idea what the problem could be. Keep in touch if you learn any other details or have any other questions.

Chuck

Originally posted by Mr. Mayor
anybody having trouble with the 5100 this evening? Mine is taking forever to change channels and bring the menu bar up. This just started this evening.
This happened to me twice (though not on 11/27); the second time was definitely after the upgrade; I'm not sure about the first time.

Each time the problem disappeared within a couple of minutes.

Software Version: 51.00-1132
Firmware: 2.40

480i Outputs
----------------
Menu/Info display is available, except if tuned into an HD channel (if component output is set to 480i, then Menu/Info is available for an HD channel); the same applies to the display of channel numbers after they are pressed on the remote

If TV type is set to 16 x 9, the 5100 letterboxes the picture; no anamorphic (full) picture is available

After turning off the 5100 in order to bring up its menu, it is necessary to press the menu button 3 times if it had been tuned into an HD channel (if component output is set to 480i, it is only necessary to press menu once)


Component Output
------------------------
If a 4 x 3 Pan & Scan TV type is selected, the 5100 does not zoom into the picture (in order to eliminate the black bars for non-hd material)

The 5100 is equipped with a number of different video outputs. The HD outputs are obviously the component video connectors. The SD outputs are the s-video, RF, and composite video connectors. The 5100 appears to be designed so that most of your viewing is done via the component video (HD) outputs. The HD outputs are able to render video and graphics in all four "YPbPr Output" modes: 1080i, 720p, 480p, and 480i. Basically, the video is what is being broadcast by the networks - everything else that appears on the screen is graphics. Closed captioning, menus, set-up screens, channel number displays, and so on are all considered graphics and not video. Graphics are only enabled on the SD outputs when the "YPbPr Output" mode is set to 480i. If the mode is set to 1080i, 720p, or 480p then it appears you won't see any graphics on the SD outputs, but you should always see them on the HD outputs. It must be a hardware issue, as I have seen other HD receivers have similar issues with blending video and graphics on all outputs.

Bluefin, I have the 5100 firmware 04 and I am able to see the graphics and overlays using 1080i mode as well as 480i mode. However my box pushes the greens really hard. Ive actually had to crank the hue up to almost max for that input just to see flesh tones in their correct color. However it still isn't decoding the greens correctly every other color I feel is pretty close. So as it is no upgrade in Montgomery county, Maryland yet. I hope the upgrade will fix the green problem as well as no auto sensing 1080i material. On a side note Comcast did bring out some six foot component cables . The cables looked like a pair of monster knock offs. I'm not using them so I cant comment on their quality.

Thomas1 - Yes, you'll always see the graphics overlays on the component video outputs regardless of the "YPbPr Output" value in the User Settings menu. You'll only see graphics and overlays on the composite, s-video, and RF outputs when the "YPbPr Output" value is 480i. Don't forget, if you have the 4:3 Override option set to 480i, then whenever the 5100 is tuned to an analog or digital SD program the YPbPr Output mode automatically switches to 480i which enables full graphic overlays on the SD outputs. To test this, turn the 4:3 Override to Off and set the YPbPr Output to 1080i and plug in an s-video cable to your TV. You won't see the TV Guide menus or the flipbars or the channel number displays or closed captioning. (If you don't have the firmware upgrade yet, you'll see what I mean when you do get it)

I've seen several people comment on what they thought was red push from the component outputs. You also believe that you see a green push? That's interesting.

Slightly off topic, but perhaps someone on this thread can help.
Charter in St. Louis is going to be using the moto 5100 when they offer hi-def in the next couple of months. Does this box offer its own stretch mode for 4:3 sources? Our problem is that our new Hit 57XWX20b has terrible stretch modes--actually contemplating returning it to CC. If the 5100 box has a good stretch solution, it might not be necessary. Anyone know if this is possible and, if it is, how good the stretch provision is?

Thanks, Jim

Agree w/Mr Mayor from West Orange (that wouldn't be you John M. , now would it?)

The logistical hassles are now history. However, the analog channels are still snowy, grainy and not crystal. Is Comcast working on this one or are we all trading off Digital/HD channels for crappy analog channels? How's everybody's TNT channel? Now this one has CBS beat on being the worst quality-picture.

All-in-all, happy w/the guide and switchover upgrade - but somehow Comcast/Motorola needs to fix the Analog picture problems next. Hopefully, this isn't the end of the "fix".

Originally posted by KenU
All-in-all, happy w/the guide and switchover upgrade - but somehow Comcast/Motorola needs to fix the Analog picture problems next. Hopefully, this isn't the end of the "fix".

This issue falls into two areas, the quality of your local Comcast analog channels and how well the 5100 handles them.

I've been told Moto is working on further improving how the 5100 processes the analog channels.

As to how good your local Comcast analog cable TV is, I would suggest trying another analog tuner, like your TV or VCR. If they still look poor, improving the 5100 won't help them. Then you'll need to work with Comcast to improve their analog system. Start with a call to the local service number and see what they can do.

Thanks, Ken H.

Just curious what setting you guys use on the 4:3 override. 480i or 480p?

I tried both - seems I don't get as much "noise" on the p setting as I do on the i setting. However, the picture appears sharper on the i setting both on analog and digital channels, even with a more noisier picture. I have a Sony HD32hv600 w/sharpness level set at middle. Maybe I need to tone it down a bit. But then I lose a little sharpness on the HD picture.

I'll take your advice Ken H and give my local a call. Thanks again.

just got my service installed yesterday, and of course it came with the new firmware installed. i played around with the 4:3 override setting, and 480p looked a little cleaner. however, i had trouble getting my projector to sync up properly to 480p. it caused the image to dance around randomly.

i just decided to turn 4:3 override off, and use 1080i for all sources. with this mode, it allows my projector to see one signal, and avoids it having to sync up to each signal type. the analog channels look decent, the digital channels look way better than DBS, and the HD channels looks just as good as the HD channels on DBS.

as soon as Comcast begins to offer Discovery HD, and CBS, i will cancel my DBS subscription.

The 5100 definitely introduces noise into the analog channels. I split the incoming line between the 5100 and the CATV connection on the back of the TV. I matched my settings for contrast, brightness and sharpness for the component connection for the 5100 and the CATV connection. When switching between the two, the CATV connection on the TV has a much smoother image. The 5100 has a lot of grain and noise in the image. On the 5100 the SD image looks overly bright as well. It looks like Motorola needs to tone down some of the image processing for SD signals. Choosing 480p seems to smooth out the image a little bit as KenU stated. But not nearly enough.

They did a great job with the 4:3 override update. So hopefully they will be able to correct this problem as well. Is there someone at Comcast to contact about this problem to relay our experiences to help them support those with the 5100?

Originally posted by gene1138
Is there someone at Comcast to contact about this problem to relay our experiences to help them support those with the 5100?

I would call your local Comcast service number. Be specific with your comments.

The official Comcast 5100 Upgrade notification & instructions.

In response to some of the posts I noticed earlier:

The current 5100 firmware does not have a feature to "stretch" 4:3 content to a 16:9 frame, but the word is that several options (linear, non-linear, zoom, etc.) for using the set-top to perform this instead of the TV are currently under investigation.

I've also heard that there is an investigation into cleaning up analog performance on the 5100 since it doesn't compare to the quality of analog channels tuned with a DCT-2000 connected to the same RF feed. No word on when either of these features might be available.

I would expect the 5100 to continue to be refined and enhanced in terms of functionality. It looks like Motorola is trying pretty hard to make a handy little box that is easy to setup and provides cool features. So I think what Ken H has suggested is the way to go - let your local cable company know what features you'd really like to see and they should relay that on to Motorola. Catch you later!

Now that I have the upgraded software for the 5100, I am relatively happy using the component outputs for all channels, both HD and SD. I have a question about the settings for my 4:3 Sony
(61HS10). So far, I have set the cable box to 4:3, and it automatically
switches between 1080i and 480i depending upon what's being
broadcast. And, I leave the TV at the only component input - video 5. If I set the TV's aspect ratio at 16:9, then all the channels are letterboxed and I don't have any kind of a zoom function. If I set the TV's aspect ratio to 4:3, then the SD channels are full screen (and look good) and the HD channels appear to be properly letterboxed.

BUT - I remember from my research when I fist
got the TV 2 years ago, that the only way to get this set to do
the "squeeze trick" and display all the resolution of a digital
device is to set the TV to 16:9. That is, even though the picture on
1080i looks to be the correct aspect ratio when the TV is set to 4:3,
and even though the TV display shows (for a brief moment in green
lettering) "DTV 1080i format," in fact, I'm loosing resolution because the set is not squeezing the entire image into the 16:9, but is painting the black bars of the letterbox. Is this a correct analysis, or does this only apply to DVDs and the way the set displays anamorphic DVDs? The easiest set up for my family would be to leave the TV at 4:3 all the time for TV viewing and only switch to 16:9 (via a macro) when the DVD player is used. Sorry for the long post. Thanks in advance for your advice.

Steve

Anybody have problems w/the Cable Guide menu on the HD Channels tonite?

Mine came up blank, but worked on the non-HD channels.

KenU, yes I am having the same issues this evening, but it seems it coes and goes. Right now, its fine, but last night it frooze several time, HD and analogue channels.
Mr Mayor

Guys, forgot to post this before.

Watch your local newscasts 2, 4, 7, etc. and tell me you don't notice a slight annoying delay in the synching of voice/lips to sound. It's slight, but enough to bother the wife (who usually doesn't notice these type of things). I checked my daughter's reg. cable TV (perfect) and sure enough- there IS a delay on the 5100 hook-up. I've only noticed this on live TV broadcasts. Oh, pray-tell, is this another "bug" to put on the 5100 complaint list?

Please check this one out and LMK. Thanks!

I had the 5100 installed this morning, but it clearly had not received the Firmware upgrade. I checked the Firmware version and confirmed that the "old" instructions were in place.

When should I expect my 5100 to get the Firmware update? Overnight? This afternoon?

Is this something I need to ask Comcast for specifically or will I automatically get the upgraded Firmware?

Ken - I too have noticed a slight (but very annoying) problem with the audio/video synching. It's most apparent when you see close up views of the person speaking - such as the news. I think it is less of a problem with HD channels. Assuming other members of this thread notice the same problem, we should add it to the list of bugs for the 5100.

Steven,

Exactly my problem!! Not noticeble on films, HD etc. or even taped news reports from the live news broadcasts (ya know, when the reporter goes to his taped narration of the event).

Just those annoying live newscasts!! Thanks! At least now I know my wife and I aren't hallucinating.

I've had my 5100 for over two weeks now, and still having problems with HD channels (HBO, ABC, NBC, PBS). Still getting audio dropouts and pixelation, some days worse than others, but never completely error free. Any one else having these consistent problems? I'm on Comcast Sellersville system, in Bucks County PA.

Originally posted by juris98
I had the 5100 installed this morning, but it clearly had not received the Firmware upgrade. I checked the Firmware version and confirmed that the "old" instructions were in place.

When should I expect my 5100 to get the Firmware update? Overnight? This afternoon?

Is this something I need to ask Comcast for specifically or will I automatically get the upgraded Firmware?

Comcast will send the Upgrade when they are ready, in the metro Detroit area it should be in the next day or so. No user action is required, just keep the cable & AC connected.

I just received my 5100 in Nashville today (since Comcast just started rolling out HD service in Nashville last week), and I'm stuck on the old version of the firmware for now. Comcast said they will upgrade the boxes in the next 2-3 months, but they're waiting for the rollout to get moving.

Anyone know if this can be upgraded by the end user, or does the upgrade have to be sent to it from Comcast? I've already been through the fun of DOWNgrading the firmware on my Samsung SIR-T150 because of 720p dropout problems, so this kind of thing is old hat.

Lee

Originally posted by leewcraft
I just received my 5100 in Nashville today (since Comcast just started rolling out HD service in Nashville last week), and I'm stuck on the old version of the firmware for now. Comcast said they will upgrade the boxes in the next 2-3 months, but they're waiting for the rollout to get moving.

Anyone know if this can be upgraded by the end user, or does the upgrade have to be sent to it from Comcast? I've already been through the fun of DOWNgrading the firmware on my Samsung SIR-T150 because of 720p dropout problems, so this kind of thing is old hat.

Lee

Has to be done by Comcast.

hello Ken H

I'm in Flint MI.

I'm getting installed this weekend with comcast HD with the 5100.

how many HDs do you have. I know local stations in your area broadcast HD OTA and I was wondering if you can get HD for them through comcast as well.

They keep telling me that there is only two local channels available plus the movies packages HBO and Showtime that have a signal HD signal each.

Also I hear the 5100 has a firewire port, and I was wondering if you can pass HD through that port to other HD devices in a digital signal.

Any help at all would be thankful.

the comcast installer is coming this weekend to install my HD motorola 5100 reciever.

Is there anything I should ask for?
Can he upgrade the firmware, or will this even be a problem for me??

Originally posted by mzk4c3
the comcast installer is coming this weekend to install my HD motorola 5100 reciever.

Is there anything I should ask for?
Can he upgrade the firmware, or will this even be a problem for me??

Have him check to make sure your signal is OK at the set, These boxes seem to be pretty sensative to low & extremely high Signal.

You should have your TV pulled out and make everything accessible for him, and make sure you have your own set of Component Cables most likely he will only have A/V cables which is all he supplied with.

If you haven't read all you can about the 5100 on this forum already, DO IT. Its possible your tech won't know much about the box so the best thing to do is arm yourself with the info needed so you and he doesn't run into any unexpected problems. All of the problems with the 5100, in one way or another have been posted on this forum.

Firmware is done automatically when the box is connected if it wasn't done already at the originating office, and only if you are a part of an upgraded area.
The tech has no control over it.
Good Luck.

Originally posted by Ken H
Comcast will send the Upgrade when they are ready, in the metro Detroit area it should be in the next day or so. No user action is required, just keep the cable & AC connected.

As Ken H knows and so that others are aware:

We got the firmware update without any problems last night in the Detroit area. I think all agree as others have stated here that the fixes are definitely an improvement for the DCT5100. The stretch mode takes a little getting used to on a widescreen but other than that all appears to be good. I even had a problem fixed where WDIV was having audio dropouts and video pixelation. All appears good for now.

Just curious if any of you guys in the Midwest are experiencing the audio/video synching imbalance of live news broadcasts that we are, here in the Northeast.

Originally posted by KenU
Just curious if any of you guys in the Midwest are experiencing the audio/video synching imbalance of live news broadcasts that we are, here in the Northeast.

I watched part of Channel 7 (ABC) and 4 (NBC) newscasts last night and can say that I saw no synch problems on A/V.

KenU,

I don't normally watch the late local newscasts (I choose WPIX when nothing is on that I want to watch at 10:00), but I did last night just to see if this was happening to me (lyp synch). I had no problems though with ABC or NBC.

Sangs,

Interesting, as there are others (Steven in Baltimore) who notice this..
wonder what's up w/that?

KenU

i understand that there is a firewire port option available on the Motorola 5100. Did any of you guys in Detroit get this option on your Comcast HD boxes???

Any special deals out there for Comcast HD service in MI??

Hey Ken H -

I think maybe it's time you put another sticky post on top.

One that reads "Firewire Port on DCT-5100 Is Not Functional at This Time!"

Sorry mzk4c3, nothing personal, it's just that the firewire question has been asked and answered about a thousand times already...

Sorry mzk4c3, nothing personal, it's just that the firewire question has been asked and answered about a thousand times already...

Maybe we need a sticky for Montgomery Cty MD and when it will get the firmware update. Its also been asked about a thousand times but never answered while all the time we see these other areas getting the firmware updates!

With regard to the lip sync issue, watching the snow coverage on WJZ, I notice a distinct and significant lip sync issue! I am not too terribly disturbed by it. But it does exist.

LIY

MZK4C3,

I got Comcast HD in S. Jersey and they told me the same thing, they want $20/month for multi-HBO. I didn't go for it and you know what, a week after they installed my HD decoder I realized I had HBO and Showtime in HD on channels 178 and 179. The installer didn't know and couldn't believe I didn't sign up for HBO or Showtime. Turns out those packages of multi channels aren't in HD, so just go with the basic is my advice.

Originally posted by liy
With regard to the lip sync issue, watching the snow coverage on WJZ, I notice a distinct and significant lip sync issue! I am not too terribly disturbed by it. But it does exist.

LIY

I experimented with the 5100 audio/video outputs last night and found the following:

1. Using the component output and Dolby audio output there was no voice delay problem.

2. Using the s-video output and the Dolby audio I had a slight lip-synch problem.

3. Using the s-video and stereo audio outputs there was no audio time delay.

This was done with the local HDTV signal on a news broadcast. I believe that the audio time delay is designed in to the 5100 so that it will properly synch with the HDTV video signal.

Howard

Originally posted by wa3vez
[
1. Using the component output and Dolby audio output there was no voice delay problem.

Howard [/B]

Not sure what you mean..How do you get Dolby audio out? Are you using a separate receiver?

I don't have a receiver, and just use the audio out from the 5100 w/the component video out.

Still have lip synch delay..
Ken

Hey Ken, I'm pretty sure Howard is talking about the optical out or the SPDIF RCA jack. Both of these can tie into a Dolby digital receiver and send 5.1 audio signal to the receiver. I'm pretty sure the analog RCA jacks only carry the sound in two channel. Howard, thats an interesting observation you made and would explain why I haven't seen the lip sync problem. I would also like to say that I haven't seen the sync problem using component out's mixed with stereo audio outs. On a side I was very pleased to see HBO sending 5.1 audio on their non HDTV signals.

You are correct it is the SPDIF output jack that I am using. I did not check the optical jack but I would suspect that it is the same as the SPDIF and has the time delay (lip-sync). It is not really a problem but a requirement for syncing the audio to the HDTV video signal. I have found some more info on the forum. The analog jacks only provide a stereo output for the s-video and composite video outputs and are therefore not time delayed. So no problem just a valuable feature.

I have a meeting with a Motorola Rep on Thursday of next week, about the 5100. I know I could read through the 1000's of threads and get a jist of the problems with the 5100, considering I've been involved in most of them. But If you would like specific questions answered then fire away from here on out until thursday & I will print them, to take to the meeting.

So Far:

Lip Sync issue on Live broadcasts (most likely not the box, but I want to hear what they have to say about it.)

Major audio difference from any digital channel to any analog channel using SPDIF output.....if anyone can confirm this for me on the analog outputs I will bring this up also. I measured a 13-15db difference from 6ft away using the Radio Shack digital SPL meter. I put on the ABC-HD feed and set the volume so the meter read 70db. then changing to the analog ABC feed on the 5100 It went to 83-85db. Which is a huge difference, too much to ignore I think.

The ongoing Analog & Digital Picture Quality is still not what it was with the DCT2000 & Sidecar setup. The analog is a little better after the Firmware update but the Digital is still laced with tons of artifacts worse on Highly compressed channels (ie Noggin, G&S, Toon Disney, basically all of the kids programming)

Any other problems are welcome if you would like you can PM or e-mail I will take those suggestions with me as well.

I have the same problem with volume between the analog channels and the HD channels. I have notice no lip sinc issues. Also, after the update, the analog pictures are much better. The HD channels continue to look great. No other issues here that I can see. No red or green push either.

If you would like specific questions answered then fire away from here on out until thursday & I will print them, to take to the meeting.

I am at a disadvantage because COMCAST has not yet updated the firmware for Montgomery County. Perhaps all my 4*3 issues are addressed in that update - I wish others with the update with 4*3 sets would chirp in here before you go.

In my case I would like the box to be able to operate like the HD cards I have owned (HiPix and MyHD) for my 4*3 set.

This means for the regular channels I can view them in a full 4*3; for OTA DTV (the channels around 179 including rebroadcast DTV) I can watch them in either an HD mode (with picture letterboxed) or zoomed to fill the screen. This effectively means an enhanced 4*3 mode for DTV broadcast when either HD or upconverted material is broadcast by the local stations.

Currently all my viewing is forced to 480i due to the problem of the sidebars.

Originally posted by miatasm
If you would like specific questions answered then fire away from here on out until thursday & I will print them, to take to the meeting.

1) When TV type is set to 16 x 9, HD channels are letterboxed on the 480i outputs. Would an option that allows for anamorphic (full) output be possible?


2) As RalphArch pointed out, it is a big disadvantage that the 5100 does not zoom (on HD channels) on the component video output when the output signal is 1080i. Even if TV type is set to 4 x 3 Pan & Scan, the 5100 does not zoom in. It seems that this is something that Motorola did not do correctly on the upgrade.

Hello Folks,

I just had Comcast HD installed in the Detroit area today. I am currently viewing regular channels through the coax cable. However, I am not able to see the channel changing menu when I do this. Does anyone else have this problem? Is there a fix to this problem?

The settings on the 5100 are:

Software – 50.00-1078
Firmware – 00

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

gammite

The settings on the 5100 are
Software – 50.00-1078
Firmware – 00 :

Gammite,

I live in NJ and I got the update a few weeks ago. Looks like your S/W version is different. Another thing, if you are viewing the regular channels through the coax, and not the box, then of course you wont see the menu displayed. The signal has to run through the box in order to identify the channel. My settings are
S/W Version 51.00-1132
Firmware :00
Call your local CC office and ask when they are sending the update to your area. Hope this helps

Mr. Mayor

Hello Mr. Mayor and you other citizens,

In order to clarify, I am viewing analog channels through the coax output on my HD box. This seems to be a cleaner signal when viewing analog signals vs. the component, s-video or composite conncections on the 5100. When I had the DCT-2000 I was able to view the menu through the coax output of the cable box. For some reason I cannot seem to get a menu through the coax output of the DCT-5100. Can anyone help me here?

Thanks in advance,

gammite

miatasm,

Are you still on for the Motorola 5100 rep? If so, I'd like to know how to enable and display from the video input on the back of the unit. This would be great for all of us who are happy with home calibration results from AVIA, VE, S&V, etc.

We could output from a DVD, have the unit upconvert and make service/user menu changes so that we can have the best picture the same way we do with DVD players as sources for the HDTV content.

Thanks,

Sam:p

Looks like Nashville launched the software upgrade this morning.

Patrick

miatasm,

If you're talking to the 5100 rep, I'm having the following problem (I believe only since the upgrade).

When I IR-blast from my ReplayTV to the 5100, there are circumstances where the channel change does not take place. I have since duplicated it with manual remote keystrokes.

Entering a 3-digit channel, it won't "take" the first time. The display will show the first two digits, then the third digit seems to immediately return the channel to whatever it had been tuned on. The next time I enter the channel, it invariably (over 20 trials, anyway) works. It's an irritation manually, but a killer when it makes me record the wrong channel.

I have gone into a "secret" menu on the ReplayTV, and fiddled with the delays on sending channels over the IR blaster. I've varied the delays from 0 to 1000 milliseconds with the same results.

There are instances where the channel change works correctly. I have not determined what, if any, consistent differences there are in the works-well state and the works-sucky state.

FWIW, channel up/down work perfectly, but that of course doesn't help me with the ReplayTV. I'm afraid that I'm going to have to record a bogus time-slice right before my desired show in order to transmit the channel twice -- that's worse than going back to a VCR for time-shifting.

Any help from Motorola or others is sincerely appreciated.

Claude

To Miatasm,

My issues, in no particular order:

- Red push on non-hd channels when box is outputting 1080i
- Volume output from the box is very low relative to other inputs into my A/V receiver. This may be a Comcast issue, as the older box also had a very low output. I like to listen to my music loudly, and a few times I've maxed out my receiver's volume when I was listening to Comcast's Music Choice channels, and it didn't even come close to the dB level of the DVD or CD inputs.

Miatasm,

I'm back with more :)

In addition to the volume output issue which I share with the other posters, it appears to me that HD content especially, and all the channels generally appear dark. A caveat is that I have a new TV which isn't fully tweaked yet, but the other inputs on the TV don't share this "darkness."

Thanks in advance for your efforts.

Claude

Clauded

I share your opinion on the darkness issue, particularly with the NBC TV broadcasts of Law & Order and Crossing Jordan.

Mr. Mayor

GG2, I'm sure if you tried this already but I'll throw it out there anyways. Under Menu>setup> then Audio there is an option for compression. If I move it to heavy the audio gets louder which seems kinda back-wards. Does this make sense to anyone, if I am compressing the sound why would it get louder. I am under the impression that compressed music or sounds is just removing the inaudible frequencies. Maybe someone can explain it better.



Originally posted by GG2
- Volume output from the box is very low relative to other inputs into my A/V receiver. This may be a Comcast issue, as the older box also had a very low output. I like to listen to my music loudly, and a few times I've maxed out my receiver's volume when I was listening to Comcast's Music Choice channels, and it didn't even come close to the dB level of the DVD or CD inputs.

I have several of the issues listed above:
- red push on 1080i output
- low sound output on analog stations
- 3 digit channel change on Sony pre-programed remote only takes two of three numbers.
- analog stations video quality is very poor in comparison to old digital cable box or cable being plugged directly into RPTV.

I hope these issues are fixed!
-T.Wells

miatasm,

One more problem, though not a major one:

As the upgrade intended, the guide/info bar is now available on the 480i outputs even if the component output is not 480i. But if the 5100 is tuned into an HD channel, the guide/info bar does not appear on the 480i outputs. The same is true for the display of channel numbers when they are keyed on the remote.

(If component output is set to 480i, this problem does not occur.)


Thanks.

Thomas1,

You are correct, I tried all the audio setup options on the box, and it's still nowhere near "loud" The audio setup menus on the 5100 are the same as on the old digital MOT box.

T. Wells & miatasm,

If I'm not mistaken, the channel change problem is not only with ReplayTV or programmed remotes. It happens also with the 5100's remote. The strangest thing is it seems to work every other time. Up/Down channel works perfectly every time, but entering the channel # has this problem.

If Motorola has a list of codes for various popular devices (e.g., ReplayTV, Tivo, various remotes, etc.) it would be quite a boon for us.

Thanks,
Claude

Comcast installed my 5100 on Monday with the firmware update already installed. I agree that the analog channels are not as clear as on the DCT-2000. I kept my DCT-2000 to use with my Replay and when I switch between the two the difference is clearly noticeable. The SD channels on the 5100 also appear darker. Haven't noticed any audio sync problems yet.

I have a question that is slightly off-topic. Instead of using a splitter on the coax to go to the 5100 and the 2000 I tried to use the RF bypass feature on the 2000 to route the signal to the 5100. I turn on "RF Bypass" in the setup on the 2000, but no matter what combination of connections I make on the 2000, I can't get this feature to work. Has anyone been able to get this working?

Ok I'm still meeting with Motorola tomorrow morning. I will be armed with this post and some e-mails I have recieved regaurding specific issues.

I do have some questions though on the above posts:

Red Push.

Does a mass majority of you notice this "red push", or is it just the few that have listed it here? I'm asking because some might think they are seeing a red push because they are now looking for it because its been posted here. (sorta of like someone telling you that they have seen an awful lot of red cars on the road, now you start to notice all red cars that drive by, making you think there are more red cars on the road)

I've had four 5100's in my possession and have installed & serviced over 50 more in the field and have yet to notice any "red push" on any of them. Could you point me to a specific instance where this occurs possibly on the PBS loop, or does it happen on every HD channel all of the time? And in any cases has this been your only 5100, or have you had more than one and it was the same with both?

Audio

T.Wells --- Are you sure you mean LOW Audio output on Analog & not Digital?

I've done some more testing and this is what I have found:

The audio set up menu (which is the same as the 2000) does not effect the audio output on analog channels at all regaurdless of your method of audio transfer (SPDIF, RF, L/R analog)

It seems, the setup menu only changes audio output when watching a digital channel through an analog output (L/R, or RF). This means the box does nothing to the audio when it goes through the SPDIF outputs, on Digital channels. Does this sound correct?

Another test I did was to compare audio output volume from 3 different sources:

Samsung sir-t150 OTA HD decoder using Optical Audio & L/R (ana)
Panasonic DVD/VCR Player using Coax Digital Audio & L/R (ana)
Motorola DCT5100 using Optical Audio & L/R (ana)
All running through an Onkyo TX-SR600 A/V receiver

Samsung Decoder had NO volume difference between Digital & Analog
Samsung Decoder & DCT5100 had NO volume difference between the same broadcast stations ABC, NBC, PBS
Panasonic DVD/VCR had no difference between Digital & Analog
DCT5100 had a 10 db (+/- 3db) INCREASE between Digital channels & Analog Channels on the Optical output
DCT5100 had a SIMILAR volume output between Digital channels & Analog Channels when the L/R analog output was used and the Compression (Audio setup menu) was set to Heavy, any other selection in the audio setup menu revealed a LOWER volume on the Digital channels as the Analog channels continued to stay at the same volume.

Through all of the tests the volume on the receiver was exactly the same and the Processor was set to Pro-Logic II & Stereo with no changes in results.

It seems that the 5100 is doing something to the volume of the Audio on the SPDIF outputs but only on the analog channels. Anyone else do any testing similar to this?

HDTV Darkness.

I have noticed that the HD channels are darker than the Analog of the same broadcast but this is also true on my Samsung OTA Decoder. There is no difference in Picture Brightness/Darkness between my 5100 & Samsung, they are EXACTLY the same. I always thought that HD programming was generally Darker so it can look Truer, Warmer, Better, ect. Can anyone back this up with Raw Data?

Problem Entering Channels.

I haven't noticed this on my setup, but I will bring it up. Is this happening only using the IR Blast on the 5100?

The remotes that are used are supplied to us by One For All (http://www.oneforall-int.com/comfiles/index2.html) and most of their codes are the same, for most of their models so try there first.

Enabling the Video inputs on the 5100.

I believe these are in the works, I will find out tomm.

Stretching / Zooming the Letterboxed -- 4:3 broadcasts.

I've heard that Motorola may be doing another firmware update to allow you to stretch the 4:3 material to fit your widescreen TV, but I haven't heard anything about zooming. I think this is something that is up in the air. As you have all probably noticed most TV manufactures have decided not to let the consumer modify 720 or 1080. by using their zoom or stretch functions when the TV sees a 720 or 1080 signal. (Mitsubishi being the only exception, I know of). I don't know the reasoning for this, but when I saw a Mitsu stretch a 4:3 Broadcast from one of the 5100's HD channels the picture looked very distorted. It was better than the Analog picture as far as detail but was annoying to look at.

When Motorola did the update it never actually changed the ability of the box to output Graphic overlays onto all outputs, the Analog outputs still DO NOT get Graphic Overlays when the box is in 1080i. So essentially they made one straight forward change to fix multiple problems at about 97% effectiveness. Rather than making 3-4 different changes for 100% effectiveness.

Analog Picture

Its still bad. It got better after the update, but still not near the PQ of the Sidecar & the 2000. I can see the Analog PQ is much better on Direct View & 4:3 televisions, but this is generally a given anyway when view 4:3 material.

If there is anything else please post it by Midnight tonight 12/11. I will be printing it out around then. I will post what I found out from the rep. tomorrow.

miatasm,

The channel entry problem using ReplayTV seems to be fixed when using ReplayTV code 0476 for the Motorola. Since 0276 also "seemed" to work, and occurs earlier in the discovery process, I think many people will try the wrong code. So far, so good with 0476.

Originally posted by ClaudeD
miatasm,

The problem using ReplayTV seems to be fixed when using ReplayTV code 0476 for the Motorola. Since 0276 also "seemed" to work, and occurs earlier in the discovery process, I think many people will try the wrong code. So far, so good with 0476.

Thats good to hear.

Miatasm,

Further to your question about the dark picture: I was also accustomed to HD generally looking darker (on a Samsung SIR-T150). It generally seems to me that HD is a "broader" range, with warm blacks like a good film can have. However, it does seem a bit darker than I expected. A caveat: I am showing this on a new set which has not been ISFed or otherwise calibrated. For a number of reasons having nothing to do with the 5100, I haven't had a chance to investigate the darkness issue on my projector. FWIW, my wife hasn't complained about the darkness factor :)

In any case, on behalf of myself and the other users, I want to thank you for being so involved in the Quality Assurance of the 5100.

Best regards,
Claude

guys,

Sorry to get off the topic....has anyone noticed the NBC HD broadcast of "Ed" right now, is not coming through on channel 181. The NBC peacock logo is on the bottom right corner of the screen but there is no picture! This is Comcast cable.......perhaps the rain is affecting it

Miatasm, I second Clauded's thanks for your efforts with this.


Mr. Mayor

Originally posted by Mr. Mayor
guys,

Sorry to get off the topic....has anyone noticed the NBC HD broadcast of "Ed" right now, is not coming through on channel 181. The NBC peacock logo is on the bottom right corner of the screen but there is no picture! This is Comcast cable.......perhaps the rain is affecting it

Miatasm, I second Clauded's thanks for your efforts with this.


Mr. Mayor

I just checked OTA and couldn't pick up anything on CBS(antenna is optimized for CBS)....But I just checked again and my 5100 is giving me Ed but its in 4:3.

NBC HD broadcast of "Ed" right now, is not coming through on channel 181.
its on in Montgomery cty MD - so a local problem

Different question - what do the compression settings do for the audio and where should it be left for best effect (none or max - or light?)
I am using the SP/DIF - in this case do these settings make no difference as the receiver is doing all the decoding?

Originally posted by RalphArch
its on in Montgomery cty MD - so a local problem

Different question - what do the compression settings do for the audio and where should it be left for best effect (none or max - or light?)
I am using the SP/DIF - in this case do these settings make no difference as the receiver is doing all the decoding?

As noticed in my testing these setting have NO effect when using SPDIF outputs. And only have an effect on Digital Channel Audio when using analog.

correction on Ed - its on in 4*3 on both WRC and WBAL OTA and COMCAST in Montgomery MD - TitanTV must be off or the ice storm has had an effect

While watching WBAL the picture froze and I lost the audio for a couple minutes. Really interesting as I was listening on COMCAST (WRC feed using SPDIF) and the audio and video both came back simulateously so must have been a national feed problem

I do believe I saw red push on the HD channels. I also had someone over and they said something on HD HBO looked very red and something on HD ABC. Switching to the analog version it wasn't red. But later that night I watched Sopranos and didn't notice it at all. So it might be just a source problem and not the 5100.

The analog channel quality is the real problem IMHO.

Thanks again for your efforts in taking our concerns to motorola.

miatasm,

I use the analog L/R output on my upstairs system. The 5100 user guide doesn't discuss the audio beyond very basic information. It would be useful to have a description of what the Audio settings do, for example, what TV is as opposed to Stereo (I can figure out what Matrix stereo is). There's also the setting "Optimize stereo volume" or something similar, which I can't seem to set to anything but "Yes." Over time, I'll figure it out, but my time for experimentation is affected by having 4 kids, a job with a commute, etc :)

On the component cable situation, I kept quiet when some people were complaining about the techs coming without component cables. However, when I buy a DVD player, a TV, etc., I don't expect component cables to come in the box even if the device has component outs. I didn't expect it with the 5100, and I purchased a set of cables before the installer showed up. It was one of the first installations, and sure enough, it's a good thing I had the cables. FWIW, the installer knew enough to use component rather than composite.

I guess when you're borrowing/renting equipment rather than purchasing, it's nice to have the cables provided.

On the component cable situation, I kept quiet when some people were complaining about the techs coming without component cables. However, when I buy a DVD player, a TV, etc., I don't expect component cables to come in the box even if the device has component outs. I didn't expect it with the 5100, and I purchased a set of cables before the installer showed up. It was one of the first installations, and sure enough, it's a good thing I had the cables. FWIW, the installer knew enough to use component rather than composite.

I needed a transcoder - so had ordered the $160 Audio Authority and was pleasantly surprised that it came with component cables - as did the COMCAST technician with another set. And so much happier when I sent the transcoder back to exchange for a Key Digital to get 1080i in addition to 480p - and that more expensive transcoder did not come with cables so I was saved $$ by COMCAST policy which had provided the component cables.

Originally posted by ClaudeD
miatasm,

I use the analog L/R output on my upstairs system. The 5100 user guide doesn't discuss the audio beyond very basic information. It would be useful to have a description of what the Audio settings do, for example, what TV is as opposed to Stereo (I can figure out what Matrix stereo is). There's also the setting "Optimize stereo volume" or something similar, which I can't seem to set to anything but "Yes." Over time, I'll figure it out, but my time for experimentation is affected by having 4 kids, a job with a commute, etc :)

On the component cable situation, I kept quiet when some people were complaining about the techs coming without component cables. However, when I buy a DVD player, a TV, etc., I don't expect component cables to come in the box even if the device has component outs. I didn't expect it with the 5100, and I purchased a set of cables before the installer showed up. It was one of the first installations, and sure enough, it's a good thing I had the cables. FWIW, the installer knew enough to use component rather than composite.

I guess when you're borrowing/renting equipment rather than purchasing, it's nice to have the cables provided.

I couldn't tell you exactly what the Audio Settings mean either...I can only guess that TV means a mono signal directly split to each left & right speaker so its not true stereo but you get sound from two speakers. Stereo is obvious......The compression, however, I have no idea what exactly it does, but it seems to be the only one that makes any difference in the sound...go figure.

I can tell you what the "optimize stereo volume" means. The 5100 (as well as the 2000) have the ability to control the volume of the output of the box. This is used for OLD TV's that don't have a remote control for Volume. It basically works like a an attenuator for the outputs of the box. The "optimize stereo volume" setting sets that volume setting to the "normal" setting. By normal I mean what the boxes volume would be if that feature wasn't avail., a "pass-through" if you will. Its called Volume Lock. You can see what I mean if you use your remote from Comcast and do the following keystorkes:

Press & Hold Setup til' the light flashes
Then Press 9 - 9 - 3
Then Press the "Cable" Button
Now if you press Volume Up or Down
You should notice that there is now a volume bar that is at the top of your screen and at a certain point it says "Stereo" or "Best Stereo" that point is the "optimized stereo volume". Kind of hard to explain in words but I think you get the idea.

About the cables I sat back for a while and didn't say anything about the posts going up complaining about the lack of correct cables. Then I had to post here after one guy basically ripped Comcast (deserved) and the technician (not deserved) for not having them. But you are exactly right about this situation.

You could also ask about 1394 output, eventually.....

Originally posted by CKarras
You could also ask about 1394 output, eventually.....

We all know where this will go, but I will ask.

Originally posted by CKarras
You could also ask about 1394 output, eventually.....
For that matter, when will the 5200 be available for rental? Even though my ReplayTV seems to be working well now with the new code, the 5200 is the real answer.

I guess both of these are really Comcast questions rather than Motorola issues. I'm sure Motorola is more than happy to sell options and/or new boxes. Comcast, on the other hand, has cash flow and other issues to deal with.

Originally posted by J4yDubs
It's not unreasonable to expect someone to know what they're doing when installing something (it's their job). The guy should at least read the manual or handout for the product. The quick connect guide I got clearly explained how to hook up the 5100. You don't need training for it. 5 jobs are more than enough to figure out the connections needed. When I do a job, I make sure I know how to do the job before doing it. I wouldn't dream of doing a job without the proper knowledge and I expect the same of anyone doing work for me. You seem to be defending fellow technicians and making excuses for them. You don't need to. Installing a 5100 is not hard. 5 minutes of reading and you should have a very good idea of how to do it before even looking at the product (especially for a technician).
etc... etc... etc...
John


Both the cocky home theater muscle flexing customer and the installer are the problem all too often. Too many people everywhere have not enough enthusiasm for what they do-- its just a matter of paying the bills.

I bet only about 5% of our society actually enjoys most of their life.

I've noticed this amongst tv repair companies too - same thing.. lousy customer service and an attitude that they'd rather not be there. obviously, like many installers, they aren't interested enough in the first place to learn about simple ideas as component cable, etc.

The statistics of quality work and attitude are grim in america. We are an emotionally and value impoverished bunch, no matter how many economists say we are the wealthiest country in the world.

Originally posted by scriabinop23
Both the cocky home theater muscle flexing customer and the installer are the problem all too often. Too many people everywhere have not enough enthusiasm for what they do-- its just a matter of paying the bills.

I bet only about 5% of our society actually enjoys most of their life.

I've noticed this amongst tv repair companies too - same thing.. lousy customer service and an attitude that they'd rather not be there. obviously, like many installers, they aren't interested enough in the first place to learn about simple ideas as component cable, etc.

The statistics of quality work and attitude are grim in america. We are an emotionally and value impoverished bunch, no matter how many economists say we are the wealthiest country in the world.

I will whole heartedly agree with that statement.....its a real shame....

Originally posted by miatasm
I will whole heartedly agree with that statement.....its a real shame....

cjh

I have a lot of info from my meeting. Some things I can talk about, some I can't. But overall everything went well and believe me your concerns were made aware of & in most cases Motorola was aware of the concerns as I brought them up. Unfortunately, I'm short on time now for a long drawn out post of my findings but I will, post all I can later tonight. Check back after 8pm or so. Just wanted to let you sweat a little.

note: this is a long message
question: why is this thread in 'reception', not 'hardware' forum?

We got the upgrade to the DCT-5100 yesterday.
bootloader: 2.15
firmware: 2.40
tsc510215: 2.15
software: 51.00-1132

Here is what I have noticed so far:

Micellaneous

- changing channels and navigating menus is much faster, as expected !

- There is no way to enable closed captioning. There was a button on the front of the HDD-200 for this. One of the service menus indicates that the feature exists, but I do not know how to enable it.

- USB, external A/V inputs, cable modem, and smart card reader are present, but disabled. Firewire and parallel ports are not installed.

Audio

- We can now receive DD5.1 on any digital channel! Previously, DD5.1 was available on HD stations only. HBO SD is 5.1 now. So far, Encore and Encore West are the only channels I see which have 5.1 surround on a non-premium channel.

- music channels (400+) are now Dolby Digital. Previously they were digital PCM.

- box has optical (TOSLINK) output. Old one had only coax (SPDIF). We are still using the coax.

- We now get digital audio on all stations, including the analog stations. This obviates the need for separate RCA connectors for the analog sound on the lower 46 channels. Lower 46 appear to be PCM only, so I think I am still unable to get "The Simpsons" in 5.1 on Fox 24 (yes, The Simpsons is broadcast in DD5.1 where available).

- Audio settings (e.g. compression) in guide do not seem to affect digital output. Therefore, we cannot equalize volume level between DD and PCM signals. Kinda stinks, because we had it working pretty well with the two-box combo. Hooking up the old analog connectors is not a solution, because the receiver will not auto-switch over because it prefers digital signal if available.

Video

- 480p upconvert of SD over component works as expected !

- 1080i/720p downconvert over S-Video/composite/antenna works, which is an welcome surprise. This is great for watching WestWing on WCAU-DT and MNF on WPVI-DT, because it allows me watch the digital signal which has less interference, better color fidelity, etc., and still be able to use the TV's strech modes to eliminate letterbox and pillarbox. For the downconverted material, S-video is noticeably superior to composite or antenna output.

- no programming guide except on component output, as reported. No big deal.

- Antenna input is smoother, slightly less sharp than component or S-Video input (due, I guess to filters in the TV tuner). Details:

I tried a lot of experiments, watching the same content on WHYY (12) vs WHYY-DT (190), and using component, S-Video, direct antenna (i.e. bypass cable box), and antenna output from 5100. Coveniently, PBS was showing a banner on the screen for their pledge drive. It provided a static blue overlay which contrasted sharply with a bright red toy being held by the announcer.

When watching analog TV, the antenna inputs are clearly the best. They filter away some noise, but leave a reasonably sharp picture with no shimmer. The component and S-video outputs showed a pronounced artifact in areas of high color contrast. It showed up best when looking at horizontal lines of contrasting color. They should have been straight and smooth, but instead showed a "squaretooth" pattern of shimmering white. I suspect this is an error on the de-interlacing, but that is just an uneducated guess.

Watching the same image on WHYY-DT produced the same artifacts on the component and S-Video inputs. But on this channel, the antenna input was not good either. It did eliminate shimmer, but it did so in a manner which was simply wrong. The contrasting horizontal bands were straight and smoothe, but one horizontal scan line was transposed, so there was a thin line of red inbetween the blue at the top of the overlay. Also, some small areas of text (e.g. the tiny Visa logo) were simply mangled completely. The component input in this case provided the most accuracy for small text, albeit with noticeable shimmer.

Overall, I am happy with the new box.

Just FYI: anyone using ReplayTV with the 5100. Be sure that you use IR blaster code 0476 (not 0276). It is confirmed by two users to work. IR problems laid to rest.

Somewhere I saw where we could download the 5100 manual (in PDF ?). Can someone repost the link? thanks.

Originally posted by Ole Anderson
Somewhere I saw where we could download the 5100 manual...

It's found in the HDTV Hardware Synopsis.

http://gicout60.gic.gi.com/customer_docs/user_guides/495012-001-a.pdf

Originally posted by KenU
Just curious if any of you guys in the Midwest are experiencing the audio/video synching imbalance of live news broadcasts that we are, here in the Northeast.

Sorry to resurrect the lyp synch issue, but lo and behold I'm watching the local news last night and there it is, the lyp synch. I was watching through the S-Video connection (so I could stretch Friends and Scrubs on the NBC digital channel). When I switched to component inputs, no lyp synch. Strange indeed.

rob_0,
You can enable Closed Captioning by powering off the box, then press menu. The option us under the new 4:3 override.

Andrew

I think this only works on non HD content though.

Originally posted by rob_0
question: why is this thread in 'reception', not 'hardware' forum?
Good question.
I started it here because the subject came up in reference to local Comcast issues, but it seems to have eclipsed the local area.

I'll move it to the HDTV Hardware Forum.

Unfortunately, I'm short on time now for a long drawn out post of my findings but I will, post all I can later tonight. Check back after 8pm or so. Just wanted to let you sweat a little.

I'm still sweating and its way past 8 pm yesterday = Can we hear the additional feedback please?

Hopefully Miatism can still find this thread after it was moved,

Well, I'm totally confused... I got my 5100 installed yesterday. It was working OK, and I started playing with the set up menu. I set the tv type to 4:3 Letter Box (Sony 36" XBR) and the component output to 1080i and the 4:3 override to 480p. Somewhere along the way, I've done something such that when the TV is switched to the composite input, the picture is stretched vertically and I can't read the news crawls on CNN, MSNBC, etc. AND.... the cable box guide doesn't appear -- not matter what channel I'm on (one of the four Comcast HD channels or any other non-HD channel.) If I press the menu or guide buttons nothing appears. If I switch to the component input, I get the guide and menu on any channel I tune the box to.

Now, there are only four settings on the silly cable box set up (if you leave the CC disabled) so I can't have screwed it up THAT much, could I:confused:

LivingInJersey,

What shape is your TV? The following applies if it's 16:9... I assume it has stretch modes (i.e., zoom, full, etc.). On my Sony (34xbr800) the set maintains the stretch mode when changing inputs (i.e., the stretch mode is not input-specific, but global). That would, however, leave you in Full mode, which wouldn't cut off the news crawls (but will distort the geometry). Zoom will probably cut off the crawls entirely, and wide zoom will cut them off somewhat and distort them somewhat.

Why are you going through the composite input?

Claude,

It's a 4:3 TV. KV-36XBR450 to be exact. I'm going through composite because the composite is connected to a Replay. The only control I have over the TV is to set the 16:9 setting to either Auto or ON. It's in auto. Looks horrible if I force to on.

LivingInJersey,

Oh. That's not much control over 16:9. There's no OFF setting?

The solution is probably something that someone who has a 4:3 Sony will know. Why not inquire, if you haven't already, in the Direct View forum? I'm afraid that what knowledge I have is 16:9 in orientation.

FWIW, I suggest using the S-video rather than composite between the 5100 and Replay. I do it that way, and the picture is surprisingly good, not much less good than component (480 component, anyway). I don't think it will solve your aspect control problem, but it will improve the PQ.

Good luck.

miatasm, miatasm, can you hear me now? what about now?

I'm here with RalphArch, sweating away. It's not a pretty sight :)

Just read all of the postings. Here is a repost from my Replay thread:

Just purchased a Sony 32hs500, my first HD TV. I am in NJ using Comcast cable, with the new 5100 box. I am unhappy with the picture on the non HD channels. It seems a little blurry at times. I am not sure if it is the TV or the new box or what. I did have the new TV for two days with my old cable box, an I am pretty sure the picture was better than this. I have had the replay 4508 for about 4 months.

I am not sure if it is the cable box, TV or replay. Too many things going on.

I have Comcast coming on Monday to show the him the bad picture quality and also requested them to bring back the old box.

Using the replay, the picture looks so blury, and at times, unwatchable. Even HBO, which use to look good on replay, now looks blury. Blury might now be the correct term, but it is like watching TV and feeling like it needs to be sharpend.

I am thinking that I will use the old cable box to record on the Replay, and use the 5100 for watching of HD channels only.

Any other replay owners have/doing the same thing?

I will repost on Monday on the difference between the old cable box and teh 5100.

Also, when I go into the Diagnostics screen, choice 8 for me is code moduels, not code objects, like some people have said. Also, to get the software version, I have to go into Main Menu! Setup!Cable Box!see configuration.

Bootloader 2.16
Firmware 2.40
Software 5100- 1132

Originally posted by ClaudeD
miatasm, miatasm, can you hear me now? what about now?

I'm here with RalphArch, sweating away. It's not a pretty sight :)

Now that I have you guys sweating......The meeting went well, the Motorola Rep was from Marketing, so he wasn't real technical but he was very knowledgable (as someone in marketing could be). Most of the Issues brought up here were already known. I was told that they do frequent this specific forum. So all of the ranting and raving is heard by the people that matter.

Forgive me if some of the statement are short & not very detailed, I have to be careful what I say about the future of our services, and somethings are not yet finalized so please don't ask me to go into detail. I will let you know when I can.

Analog PQ: Is definately being addressed in the next firmware, which I'm told may be ready in a couple of weeks.

Red Push: They have heard of it happening, but from my standpoint I am looking for a specific instance in certain material when it happens so I can get a grasp on what you guys are talking about. Like I stated before, could someone with the "red push" point me to a specific scene in possibly the PBS loop where Red Push is really noticable, and I will send it to them so they could look for it. This isn't what he said but, he told me he had heard of it but wasn't sure exactly what was meant by it.

Audio Difference between Digital Ch. & Analog Ch. using SPDIF outputs: They are also aware of this, as well as some other audio problems that were brought to my attention, Ex. sometimes when watching an On- Demand Movie or coming out of an OD movie(not all of you are able to get On-Demand yet so this will not apply) the audio completely goes out when using SPIDF. The box needs to be turned off and on for it to work again.

This is being looked at, to be repaired possibly in the next firware upgrade.

Modifying 4:3 content on HD channels to fit the screen without bars: This is for from what I understood 4:3 & 16:9 TVs (a stretch & zoom function, maybe?) This is also being worked on for possibly the next firmware. He didn't know how this was going to be implemented into the menu system of the box, or if it was going to be automatically done, but Good news nonetheless to know Motorola is once again stepping up to the plate with a fix that no one else seems to have addressed (Broadcasters or TV manufactures) .

Lip-Sync: This seems to come and go from area to area, channel to channel, and offset duration (lip-sync delay time). They are also looking into this but the consesus I get from people other than the forum is that this is a issue with the Broadcasters. A friend of mine whom frequents these forums has been talking to an engineer @ Ch 10 (Philly local NBC affiliate) and they are aware of the sync problem and are working on a permanent fix for it.

HDTV darkness: I have to agree with my tests on this and my understanding is that generally HD feeds are darker to enable more use of calibration functions, and it also provides a warmer/truer/more precise picture. I don't have any technical findings to back this up, other than the picture from my OTA Samsung Decoder looks identical to my 5100's HD output. These are viewed through the same input on the television so the video settings are the same. Which tells me that the 5100 & Comcast aren't modifying the signal what-so-ever. Can anyone Back me up on this, hypothesis?

Firmware: Its seems Motorola can do alot with the firmware updates. Any features of the box that are installed but not activated can be activated with firmware. IR blaster, modem, video inputs, usb, are not active but could be if Comcast sees the need to, and gets enough feedback for them to be activated. Its a Comcast desicsion, apparently. I did asked about the video inputs, if they were to activate them could they upconvert the signal to be displayed through the YPbPr outputs (for calibration from a DVD player,ect.) , and he is getting back to me on this. But it seems that with the flexibility that the firmware updates have it should be possible.

Firewire: They can do it but its ultimately up to Comcast, it seems it is something that Comcast doesn't want to get their hands dirty on, just yet. There are appently legal issues that could possibly rear their ugly head if it happened, considering to size of the company, so they seem to be holding off on this until they have more time to look at the benefits of it. Again, my edjucated opinion and not fact.

DVI: Good news, DVI will be apart of the next new 5100's. Which I have been told will possibly be 1st qtr 03'. It does seem that they are doing all of the next new boxes with DVI so it shouldn't be hard to get one if you want one. But don't start calling for them now, with hopes of being put onto a "list" or something. They will probably come in, in small quantities, so be patient. I'm sure someone will post here if they get one, then you guys can call.

Retail release: Its being talked about, but won't happen anytime soon, at least for Comcast.

PVR: No real info on this other than its still not here yet, and won't be in the NEAR future.

I'm sorry I couldn't give you more info. I'm waiting for info from the Rep on the questions I had. I will be e-mailing him, hoping for some type of updates. Good thing is that most of the concerns posted here, he brought up in the meeting before I asked, so it proves that you all are being heard. So keep at it and hopefully soon the 5100 will eventually be very close to perfect. Then all we need is Stinkin CBS!!

Thanks for the updates!! One very prominent thing I don't see any response to though: Any word on the PQ on analog channels, 1-99?

Originally posted by LivingInJersey
.......... I set the tv type to 4:3 Letter Box (Sony 36" XBR) and the component output to 1080i and the 4:3 override to 480p. .......... If I press the menu or guide buttons nothing appears. If I switch to the component input, I get the guide and menu on any channel I tune the box to.


This was the short cut that Motorola used to get the box working the way most people wanted. When setting the 480 override to 480p, you are selecting a non-analog format. This will shut off the guide and menu on any analog ouputs. They made this fix because it seems it was easier execute the upgrade with hopes of most users watching the cablebox through the component input on their TV all of the time.

Originally posted by jkurlanski
Thanks for the updates!! One very prominent thing I don't see any response to though: Any word on the PQ on analog channels, 1-99?

I just updated the post with this info. My bad.

BTW, not to get off topic, but I don't see much talk about the SA3100HD on the forums, considering how it does all of the things that the 5100 did originally, without any insite on whether SA intends to fix it. I guess I should post this elsewhere. If anyone can point me to a thread that is dealing with this box I would appreciate it.

miatasm said
Like I stated before, could someone with the "red push" point me to a specific scene in possibly the PBS loop where Red Push is really noticable, and I will send it to them so they could look for it.

Uh, miatasm, could you ask Comcast to broadcast PBS in the Short Hills, NJ area, and I'll get right to that red push request :)

All kidding aside, it is reassuring that Motorola appears to be committed to improving the consumer experience with the 5100. Technical solutions are well within reach if the desire exists.

Thanks for your feedback.

Claude

Originally posted by ClaudeD
Uh, miatasm, could you ask Comcast to broadcast PBS in the Short Hills, NJ area, and I'll get right to that red push request :)

All kidding aside, it is reassuring that Motorola appears to be committed to improving the consumer experience with the 5100. Technical solutions are well within reach if the desire exists.

Thanks for your feedback.

Claude

I thought you had the PBS loop?

We get the PBS HD loop? :D

Red push is when there is too much red tint in the image. Most TV's push too much red tint. So people's faces (flesh tones) look all rosy and unnatural. I've had my TV professionally calibrated, so my color reproduction should be quite good. I had seen it on the ABC HD channel and while watching the Sopranos in HD. But lately I haven't seen it. I never really noticed it on the SD channels. But broadcast stations are all over the place when it comes to the accuracy of their color presentation.

Because for the most part flesh tones have been looking pretty normal, I'm beginning to think it is a source problem and not the 5100. The only thing i can think of is for Motorola to add a setting to let us adjust the tint for the 5100 in the menu setup screen.

But that's just my opinion.

A bit off topic, but, miatasm, since you are on the inside of Comcast Jersey, do ya know why they canned TechTV for that god awful G4 station? Other Comcast regions still carry it.


Thanks.

AFAIK, the only HD I get is ABC, NBC, HBO, and SHO. If there's PBS, even a loop, could anyone clue me in on the channel #?

Originally posted by ClaudeD
AFAIK, the only HD I get is ABC, NBC, HBO, and SHO. If there's PBS, even a loop, could anyone clue me in on the channel #?

Yeah, same here. I've never found one either.

Are all of those with the 5100 able to use the VOD feature? This hasn't worked for me at all, even after the firmware upgrade. Everything else works fine. Any insight is appreciated.

Thanks.

Originally posted by gkurcon
Are all of those with the 5100 able to use the VOD feature? This hasn't worked for me at all, even after the firmware upgrade. Everything else works fine. Any insight is appreciated.

Thanks.

Not all systems have On-Demand up and running yet, check with your local office.

PBS Loop is on Ch. 190 from 7pm - 3am.

I still have Tech TV where I live, but its not in the system I work, and for Comcast to take it off the air especially for G4 I would be pissed. I don't know why they did it in your system. Make a call to the local office, or stop by better yet, and make a formal complaint.

Originally posted by miatasm
PBS Loop is on Ch. 190 from 7pm - 3am.
Are there any other "Easter Eggs" out there?

Originally posted by ClaudeD
Are there any other "Easter Eggs" out there?

Not that I'm aware of............do you get 190, Claude?

Miatasm,

Unfortunately, there appears to be a big hole between 181 and 200. Comcast, please fill it in :)

yea, i miss my tech-tv (im in aston, pa)!
G4 Icons show is cool (Lord British!) but thats the only thing worth watching! Get TECH-TV BACK NOW FOR US IN PHILLY AREA (or in aston area!)...

You can find the Motorola marketing spew PDF here:

http://www.gi.com/digital/dct5100.pdf

I have AT&T cable in Seattle. They currently offer HBO and Showtime with locals, Discovery and others coming online in January 03 (or so they say). I will not go into HD video quality here other than to say the signal AT&T is providing looks to be bit for bit the same as the master I can receive with my big dish and HD decoder.

Previous HD box experience: Sony HDD100 DirecTV unit and Motorola HDD-200 sidecar with a DSR-920 C-Band (big dish) receiver.

Features:

This is the bare bones DCT5100. It has USB and Ethernet onboard as well as a DOCSIS cable modem, none of which are used in my case. No 1394 ports on this unit although the platform supports it.

The guide software on this is the awful, nasty abortion known as Gemstar TVGudie. People with DSR920 (4DTV) C-Band boxes complain about that guide. It is bliss compared to the POS that is Gemstar. The Guide data provided by AT&T has robust information in it but the presentation is awful, with more screen real estate dedicated to SPAM than to guide data.

The box has SPDIF and COAX digital out. It converts audio for all analog cable feeds to digital as well. This is a nice touch.

The box defaults to 480i on the YCbCr output. You need to enter the service menu to switch it to 1080i (or 720p or 480p). You do this by turning the power off on the box and pressing the <menu> button on the box. Use the cursor keys to move around and set the output mode.

The GUI/Guide is displayed only on the YCbCr output if you set the output to anything other than 480i. This is actually preferable, more on that later.

The box down-converts HD and sends it out the SVID and composite ports and simultaneously spews HD on the YCbCr ports. It up or down coverts as needed depending on the connection.

Use with a ReplayTV: great once I got the right IR code set selected on the Replay. Because the DCT5100 only displays the GUI/Guide on the YCbCr ports if you set the output to anything other than 480i you end up with a perfect mate for an outboard DVR. When used with a Replay (or Tivo) you get NO GRAPHICS from the box on the SVID port as long as the YCbCr output is set to something higher than 480i. With a bit of tweaking of the IR code timing I have this box tuning fast enough such that it's a seamless extension of the ReplayTV and because the box does a very nice job down-converting HD content I can timeshift from that source. It's nowhere near as good as being able to record actual HD, but it's much better than regular analog or digital SDTV.

Gripes and observations:

The only complaint I have about this cable box, other than the atrocious guide is that the black level on the YCbCr output is too low. But, oddly, SDTV content up-converted *by the box* looks OK. Only stuff that comes from an actual HD feed like HBO-HD or Sho-HD is too dark. Even the up-converts broadcast by HBO-HD are too dark. This leads me to believe that they calibrated the HD output of this box by feeding it an SD signal and calibrating against the up-conversion performed by the box. Motorola’s HDD-200 side-car has the exact same problem while the Sony HDD-100, my HTPC and a buddies Mitsubishi DirecTV HD box do not have this problem. Motorola needs to address this, nobody else has this problem and it makes Motorola look bad in the eyes of the HT crowd, who will be the first to adopt this box.

Quality of the de-interlacing and scaling performed by this box: mediocre. Very few people on this forum will use this feature, but I thought I'd throw it out there. It slaps black bars on the side of the 4:3 content in a 16:9 window so if you use it you better have a DLP or LCD display otherwise you're going to get burn in. I cannot see anyone with a modern HD display using this feature. Now if the de-interlace was provided Faroudja DCDi or Silicon Image SIL50X then I think I’d be using it.

On the plus side this box is FAST. The UI is fast, the guide pops up fast (not that you'd ever want to use it). It tunes both analog and digital cable feeds very quickly.

If they got a different guide and fixed the black level output on this box it'd be near perfect.

No PBS Demo Loop on 190 for me either...:(

Originally posted by ianken
The box down-converts HD and sends it out the SVID and composite ports and simultaneously spews HD on the YCbCr ports. It up or down coverts as needed depending on the connection.

Use with a ReplayTV: great once I got the right IR code set selected on the Replay. Because the DCT5100 only displays the GUI/Guide on the YCbCr ports if you set the output to anything other than 480i you end up with a perfect mate for an outboard DVR. When used with a Replay (or Tivo) you get NO GRAPHICS from the box on the SVID port as long as the YCbCr output is set to something higher than 480i. With a bit of tweaking of the IR code timing I have this box tuning fast enough such that it's a seamless extension of the ReplayTV and because the box does a very nice job down-converting HD content I can timeshift from that source. It's nowhere near as good as being able to record actual HD, but it's much better than regular analog or digital SDTV.


I also am on AT&T in Seattle and just got my 5100 on Friday. In my case however, I get no output on RF/Composite/SVideo if anything but 480i is selected (and SVideo is unuseably bad on my unit anyhow). I am hoping we get the firmware update that allows 4:3 override settings since I have a 4:3 set and Tivo. I think I will ask for a replacement box to address my Svideo problem and perhaps that will fix the downconvert issue as well (although knowledge about this box seems in short supply at AT&T)

I don't believe ATT/Comcast in the Seattle area is set up yet to transmit 5100 firmware updates. They just started receiving 5100s in volume last week. I got two 5100s installed last week here in North Bend. Both of them have 2.14 firmware, which as I understand from this thread, is the old version.

But in my case, it's not a problem that S-video displays no guide when the box is set to progressive. In fact, it's a plus. I have the S-video going into my ReplayTV, and I MUCH prefer the Replay Guide to the AT&T guide. It always has 90 minutes visible (vs 30 min), has 12-13 days of programming (vs 1-2), shows both the detail text and the program grid simultaneously, etc. Since I usually watch the 5100 thru the ReplayTV, I want no trace of the AT&T guide to show up at all.

Only when I want to watch something in HD do I view the 5100 component output directly on my TV. Then of course I have to use the AT&T guide in that case.

There's still plenty of other bugs I'd like fixed - like the wildly different sound output levels between analog & digital channels, for one.

got the software update in Montgomery Cty MD today. My 4*3 properly displays HD without sidebars now. Congrats to COMCAST

Originally posted by ianken
You can find the Motorola marketing spew PDF here:

http://www.gi.com/digital/dct5100.pdf

Use with a ReplayTV: great once I got the right IR code set selected on the Replay. Because the DCT5100 only displays the GUI/Guide on the YCbCr ports if you set the output to anything other than 480i you end up with a perfect mate for an outboard DVR. When used with a Replay (or Tivo) you get NO GRAPHICS from the box on the SVID port as long as the YCbCr output is set to something higher than 480i. With a bit of tweaking of the IR code timing I have this box tuning fast enough such that it's a seamless extension of the ReplayTV and because the box does a very nice job down-converting HD content I can timeshift from that source. It's nowhere near as good as being able to record actual HD, but it's much better than regular analog or digital SDTV.

Would you like to share your IR code and tweaks with us??? I had a hell of a time getting mine to work at ALL with a Replay 4504!

Thanks!

For me, the combination that works *every time* with my ReplayTV 4xxx & the DCT5100 is this:

choose codeset 0476
Go into IR fine-tuning, and set Minimum Digits to Send to "3".

Just got my dct5100 in the philadelphia area this week, and my thoughts are in agreement with many above. The analog channels are not as good as with my dct2000, especially using the component video inputs.

The S-Video is a bit better, but does require that I change inputs on the tv when switching back and forth between HD and analog channels. I was hoping to avoid that with the new box, so hopefully the next firmware upgrade will fix the analog/component video quality. I think the S-video input is close, but not as good as my prior cable box on analog channels as well.

I must say it is a nice change to have the picture pop up immediately when you change channel, and to actually get menus on the hd channels.

I too, wish there was firewire built in, since I was considering purchasing a D-VHS recorder, but decided to buy an S-VHS one for the time being.....(maybe they will drop in price significantly by the time we get our firewire connection).

Hey, by the way.......I am sure I know the answer already, but I am forced to ask.........

Has anybody found any discrete on/off codes for this cable box? I assume motorola did not include these as usual (although, again, what we have now is a HUGE improvement over the HD sidecar that had NO remote functions at all, not even a power toggle.)

I am using an HTM MX-500, and this cable box is the only thing remaining without discrete on and discrete off commands.

PBS Loop is on Ch. 190 from 7pm - 3am.

We dont have that here in West Orange...should we?

Mr. Mayor

Originally posted by miatasm
I can tell you what the "optimize stereo volume" means. The 5100 (as well as the 2000) have the ability to control the volume of the output of the box. This is used for OLD TV's that don't have a remote control for Volume. It basically works like a an attenuator for the outputs of the box. The "optimize stereo volume" setting sets that volume setting to the "normal" setting. By normal I mean what the boxes volume would be if that feature wasn't avail., a "pass-through" if you will. Its called Volume Lock. You can see what I mean if you use your remote from Comcast and do the following keystorkes:

Press & Hold Setup til' the light flashes
Then Press 9 - 9 - 3
Then Press the "Cable" Button
Now if you press Volume Up or Down
You should notice that there is now a volume bar that is at the top of your screen and at a certain point it says "Stereo" or "Best Stereo" that point is the "optimized stereo volume". Kind of hard to explain in words but I think you get the idea.
cjh

miatasm
Being the curious type, I tried this, and it works. But now I need to get out of this "mode". When I now press the volume button on the remote I get the volume bar on the top of the screen, not my TV volume. How do I get out of this? cheers

Mr. Mayor

Originally posted by Mr. Mayor
miatasm
Being the curious type, I tried this, and it works. But now I need to get out of this "mode". When I now press the volume button on the remote I get the volume bar on the top of the screen, not my TV volume. How do I get out of this? cheers

Mr. Mayor

Do the first part again but instead of pressing "cable" press whichever equipment you are using to control the volume "TV" for TV vol. or "Audio" for a receiver.

Anyone know if there is any way to change the brightness of the led's on the front panel? Most of my other equipment (dvd player, receiver) allow you to dim their leds.

Originally posted by miatasm

HDTV darkness: I have to agree with my tests on this and my understanding is that generally HD feeds are darker to enable more use of calibration functions, and it also provides a warmer/truer/more precise picture. I don't have any technical findings to back this up, other than the picture from my OTA Samsung Decoder looks identical to my 5100's HD output. These are viewed through the same input on the television so the video settings are the same. Which tells me that the 5100 & Comcast aren't modifying the signal what-so-ever. Can anyone Back me up on this, hypothesis?


First, A/B compares between the signal AT&T is sending down the wire here in Seattle to the master signal from HBO (via my big dish and HDD200) tells me they are sending the exact same bits. The are exactly the same. Kudos to AT&T for not bowing to temptation and downcoverting/recompressing the signal.

I tried to watch "Harry Potter" on HBO the other night. In the forrest when they meet the centaur none of the background was visible. It was BLACK. I had to pump up the black level about 5-7 nothces on my Pioneer Pro520 in order to get the shadow detail right.

I also had(just canceled) DirecTV HD via a Sony HDD-100 POS and it did NOT have this problem.

Oddly I do see the same problem on my HDD-200 that I use with my big dish.

I do NOT see the problem with my HTPC running at 540p where shadow detail on titles like LOTR, 5th Element and Dark City are stunning.

If anything Mot needs to add a power user menu where we can tweak black level, gamma and color balance.

My TV was calibrated by Eliab of AVICAL. It's not broken nor is it miscalibrated. The default settings at center track D6500 and black level for my viewing environment very well. Only HD widgets from Motorola have this dark video problem, in my experience. I have not tried a Samsung box.

Originally posted by Tachy
Anyone know if there is any way to change the brightness of the led's on the front panel? Most of my other equipment (dvd player, receiver) allow you to dim their leds.

No there is not, and this is the first request I heard for this, I will send this along.

Originally posted by jimre
I don't believe ATT/Comcast in the Seattle area is set up yet to transmit 5100 firmware updates. They just started receiving 5100s in volume last week. I got two 5100s installed last week here in North Bend. Both of them have 2.14 firmware, which as I understand from this thread, is the old version.

But in my case, it's not a problem that S-video displays no guide when the box is set to progressive. In fact, it's a plus. I have the S-video going into my ReplayTV, and I MUCH prefer the Replay Guide to the AT&T guide. It always has 90 minutes visible (vs 30 min), has 12-13 days of programming (vs 1-2), shows both the detail text and the program grid simultaneously, etc. Since I usually watch the 5100 thru the ReplayTV, I want no trace of the AT&T guide to show up at all.

Only when I want to watch something in HD do I view the 5100 component output directly on my TV. Then of course I have to use the AT&T guide in that case.


Jim, it sounds like we have a similar setup - I'd like to use the s-video for my Tivo (way better than the Guide) and just use the component for watching the HD programming. Can you confirm that the analog outputs should be sending out a downconverted signal if the component output is set to HD? (in my case, 1080i). Thanks for any info you can give. If my box isn't performing as expected I really need to have it replaced.

Originally posted by Vinylsaurus
Jim, it sounds like we have a similar setup - I'd like to use the s-video for my Tivo (way better than the Guide) and just use the component for watching the HD programming. Can you confirm that the analog outputs should be sending out a downconverted signal if the component output is set to HD? (in my case, 1080i). Thanks for any info you can give. If my box isn't performing as expected I really need to have it replaced. Yes - with my 5100 set to 1080i, the S-video port simultaneously outputs a down-res version of what you see on the Component port. Main difference is there's no internal guide, graphics, or menus on the S-video port when the 5100 is set to any progressive mode.

Press & Hold Setup til' the light flashes
Then Press 9 - 9 - 3
Then Press the "Cable" Button
.............

Do the first part again but instead of pressing "cable" press whichever equipment you are using to control the volume "TV" for TV vol. or "Audio" for a receiver.

Why is this feature capability hidden under an obscure response to a question on an unrelated topic. It is one of the major upgrades I requested, perhaps it was there all along?

It should have been SHOUTED to all!!!!

Seriously - I tried it and no more switching back and forth between audio and cable to listen anymore. The slight downside is that when TV alone is selected the COMCAST remote still controls the receiver volume. I can live with that an search for another remote in those rare instances when I want to listen to the TV's speakers.

:D

A few comments after using this STB for a couple of weeks:

- Periodically my box grinds to a halt. Changing channels will take a minute or more, with the menu redrawing step by step and eventually the picture and even later, maybe, sound. The only way to recover is to unplug (not simply turn-off) the box.

- The black level on HD is too low. I have a well calibrated PJ, and when comparing the same DVD the blacks are just crushed away on the 5100. It would be *so* nice for the basic (black level, white level, & color) pq adjustments to be made available.

- The box never recognizes the first time I try to direct enter a 3-digit channel. Always have to do it twice.

- I really wish there was an option to display the guide over the composite/s-video outs. I'd like to hook-up a small LCD to use for browsing the music channels (I don't want to have to power on the projector just for this.) I admit my use for it is obscure, but I'm sure there are plenty of other reasons why it would be nice to have the option.

Originally posted by joe12south
A few comments after using this STB for a couple of weeks:
- The black level on HD is too low. I have a well calibrated PJ, and when comparing the same DVD the blacks are just crushed away on the 5100. It would be *so* nice for the basic (black level, white level, & color) pq adjustments to be made available.


I think most of us are seeing this problem. Best solution is a menu option to tweak it. It's either a black level or gamma issue. Not sure which. The MOtorola HDD-200 HD side car has trhe same problem.

Tried to watch "Oceans 11" this afternoon. Same problem. I had to crank the black leve a bout 5 notches to get it to look OK.

I prefer to switch everthing through my Pioneer 49tx, but as it is now I'll need to run a dedicated cable for the DCT to the TV. I'd prefer not to so that.

Originally posted by RalphArch
Why is this feature capability hidden under an obscure response to a question on an unrelated topic. It is one of the major upgrades I requested, perhaps it was there all along?

It should have been SHOUTED to all!!!!

Seriously - I tried it and no more switching back and forth between audio and cable to listen anymore. The slight downside is that when TV alone is selected the COMCAST remote still controls the receiver volume. I can live with that an search for another remote in those rare instances when I want to listen to the TV's speakers.

:D I agree with you Ralph this is a great easter egg :D . On a side note we just got the firmware ( 00 ) update in Montgomery county MD.:D :D

Originally posted by joe12south
- I really wish there was an option to display the guide over the composite/s-video outs. I'd like to hook-up a small LCD to use for browsing the music channels (I don't want to have to power on the projector just for this.) I admit my use for it is obscure, but I'm sure there are plenty of other reasons why it would be nice to have the option.
Once your cable company updates the box' software/firmware, you'll be able to do it. The software version is 51.00-1132. There will be a setting labeled "4:3 OVERRIDE". If that is set to 480i, the guide is available on the composite/s-video outputs.

I usually watch non-HD channels over the composite/s-video outputs, so I need the guide on those outputs. Plus, if one wants to transmit the signal to other rooms, it is a must to have the guide. So like you said, there are plenty of reasons to have the option.

The video on the analog fees is shifted to the left a bit. Not a bitg deal, but I did not some chopped off text on the left that was no present on my TVs internal tuner. The TVs overscan is dialed in at 5% and geometry is perfect. It's not the TV.

And : on the analog channels the blacks seem to be kinda washed out, but this could be cable. It's been a long time since I've had cable.

Finally : When the screen is dark and viwing via the SVID output I see several faint, evenly spaced, very thin vertical lines down the screen. I checked and re-checked my cables. I only see this on analog channels when the screen goes black. Has anyone else seen this?

Alan,
How does the "4:3 OVERRIDE" setting affect the component signal? For that output I need the behavior to remain the same ... everything converted to 1080i, and for 4:3 material to be centered (black pillars.)

Originally posted by joe12south
Alan,
How does the "4:3 OVERRIDE" setting affect the component signal? For that output I need the behavior to remain the same ... everything converted to 1080i, and for 4:3 material to be centered (black pillars.)

The 4:3 Override is exactly that a 4:3 override.

With this function set to 480i the box outputs a 480i signal through the Component Outputs when the box is tuned to anything but an HD channel.

With this function set to 480p the box outputs a 480p signal through the Component Outputs when the box is tuned to anything but an HD channel.

With this function set to OFF the box outputs a 1080i signal all the time through the Component Outputs.

So in your case you would turn this feature off to maintain the bars on the sides.

miatasm,
That's what I'm doing now, which is perfect for my projector. My question then is, with it set to
"off" will I be able to see the guide through a composite/s-video connection?

Miatasm (and others):

If the 4:3 Override option is picked, how does this affect the analog outputs. More specifically, would setting the box to 480i allow the guide to be shown on non-HD channels through the s-video output, and still switch to 1080i on HD channels through the component out?

Thanks,

jdp

Originally posted by joe12south
miatasm,
That's what I'm doing now, which is perfect for my projector. My question then is, with it set to
"off" will I be able to see the guide through a composite/s-video connection?

Nope. Sorry. It maybe apart of the next Firmware upgrade though.....

Miatasm (and others):

If the 4:3 Override option is picked, how does this affect the analog outputs. More specifically, would setting the box to 480i allow the guide to be shown on non-HD channels through the s-video output, and still switch to 1080i on HD channels through the component out?

Thanks,

jdp

Yes it will display guide and menu on non-HD channels viewed through any analog output (RF, Composite, S-video)

Miatasm,
Is there a way (other than bothering you) to get feedback/feature requests/bug reports to someone in-the-know at Moto?

Once your cable company updates the box' software/firmware, you'll be able to do it. The software version is 51.00-1132. There will be a setting labeled "4:3 OVERRIDE". If that is set to 480i, the guide is available on the composite/s-video outputs.

Yeah, I'd finally figured that out. I had the upgrade but had set the 4:3 override to 480p. I rarely use the box for composite analog out anyway so I thought it just didn't work with the menus. But 480i output does work with the menus, as I just found out by hooking it up to DScaler.

Just guessing, but I think maybe what is happening is the 5100 is capable of generating menus (overlay graphics) on any resolution now, but only on one at a time. So if the component outputs happen to be on 480i then it has something useable to also display on composite outputs.

But they need to be able to generate overlay graphics on 2 different resolutions at the same time to support both component and composite menus at different resolutions. I hope the box has that hardware capability so it can be added in a future software update.

- Tom

Originally posted by joe12south
Miatasm,
Is there a way (other than bothering you) to get feedback/feature requests/bug reports to someone in-the-know at Moto?

Post them here. Motorola is watching.......

Closed captioning on the 5100 has some odd limitations, and some things which just seem wrong. For me they are just annoyances, but for the hearing impaired some of these problems would be serious.

The first glaring problem with CC from the cable box is that enabling it requires you to go into the service menu. On the HDD-200, it used to be enabled by pressing a button on the front of the sidecar.

The second problem with the cable box is that the CC appears only on the YPbPr output on SD channels, unless 480i override is enabled. I suppose this is the same problem that prevents the guide from appearing except in 480i mode.

The third problem is the CC appears only on the YPbPr output on HD channels, even in 480i override mode.

The fourth thing is not a problem, but a feature request. It would be really nice if you could choose where you want the captions to appear. In particular it would be nice if you could put the captions inside the letterboxed area of a SD frame.

There are two ways to enable captioning: using the 5100, or using the TV. Using the TV is usually preferable, because the CC stays visible on the screen no matter which zoom and fill modes are in use. Unfortunately, the CC information seems to be 'swallowed' by the 5100 box unless 480i override is enabled, even on the YPbPr outputs. In 480i override mode, the TV's CC works OK in SD, but it does not work when watching a HD station.

The combination of limitations makes it impossible for me to use CC in the one situation where I want it: West Wing. It is shown on Comcast channel 181 (WCAU-DT) as an upconvert. If I switch to S-Video or antenna output, the 480i override crops the pillarboxing, and I can then use my TV's fill mode to eliminate the letterboxing. So the picture occupies the whole screen, but there is no way to see closed captioning from either the 5100 or the TV.

I tried the 9-9-3 tweak for controlling audio level. I know I did it right, because I can see the display on the screen showing the level going up and down when I change volume on the cable remote. However, it has no effect on the actual sound volume in my case. It has no effect on any sound source.

I get the sound out from the cable box using a digital coaxial (SPDIF) cable. Is it supposed affect the level for any output, or only analog outputs?

I'm pretty sure none of the audio controls do anything to the digital outputs, as is the case with almost all hardware.

Originally posted by ianken
I think most of us are seeing this problem. Best solution is a menu option to tweak it. It's either a black level or gamma issue. Not sure which. The MOtorola HDD-200 HD side car has trhe same problem.

I'm certainly no expert, so if I'm offbase here certainly feel free to let me know, but isn't this issue directly related to the fact that true HD is transmitted with black level at 0 IRE where SD is transmitted with black level at 7.5 IRE?

An easy way to verify this would be to use the expanded black level setting (0 IRE) on your DVD player, calibrate your black level using Avia/VE and then see how the black level looks on HD broadcasts. I would suspect you will find the black levels are then appropriately set for HD, but regardless it would be interesting to read posted here the results of such a test.

Originally posted by joe12south
I'm pretty sure none of the audio controls do anything to the digital outputs, as is the case with almost all hardware.

Thats correct, it effects only analog.

I tried the 9-9-3 tweak for controlling audio level. I know I did it right, because I can see the display on the screen showing the level going up and down when I change volume on the cable remote. However, it has no effect on the actual sound volume in my case. It has no effect on any sound source.

I get the sound out from the cable box using a digital coaxial (SPDIF) cable. Is it supposed affect the level for any output,or only analog outputs?

I am also using the SP/DIF output. You have to program the Motorola remote with your receiver's code for it to properly control the volume before you take the above steps. I am using a Pioneeer 810 - but you have to go to the All-for-One remote site that is listed (inside the remote?) and I had to try a variety of the Pioneer reciever codes for a variety of remotes since the COMCAST unit is not listed, until I found the one that works with the COMCAST remote. Then, when Audio button is pushed, you can change the reciever's mode with "Music" button, and change volume and turn power on and off when Audio is selected.

The above procedure allows you to additionally change the receiver volume when cable is selected (or TV for that matter- the change is universal to control the receiver volume); a Godsend in that you don't need two remotes and don't need to switch between cable and audio.

Now if they would just change the all-on button to include the receiver as well as the TV and the Motorola box.....

Plus if they would let us know if there are other Easter Eggs....

In case COMCAST or Motorola is listening

In addition to the above discussion about HD capable digital black level being too low relative to the regular digital channels; the same is true of the base sound level. I am using SP/DIF and I need to adjust the sound upwards whenever switching to these channels. If the HD can't be adjusted up then at least the others should be set down so there is not an automatic need to adjust volume every time you switch to these channels.

I am in the Seattle area & AT&T(Comcast) installed the 5100 box yesterday. 3guys came and they were all in training, so I had to install it myself, they acted like they had never seen a system with 10 different units going into the back of my receiver. Anyway, I have the red tint in the video, regular channels ar not as good as they were & the channel guide "sucks". My numbers on the updates seem to be different than whats here on this forum(they are:firmware 2.14, bootloader 2.15) I can't find the software #, how do I do that? I dont believe I have an updated box, but really not sure! Any help would be appreciated!

I definatly notice red push since the box was installed. This is compared to Directv which I just switched from last weekend. It is most noticeable on analog channels, somewhat less with the digital channels and very much less noticeable on HD channels.

On another note I have lost the guide completely again (meaning I click on the guide button and only see a brief flash on the receiver display and thats it). It happened Sunday into Monday and then self corrected Monday evening. All fine Tues and the same problem today. Tech is coming out to investigate tomorrow

rb (Detroit,MI

Originally posted by danstone
I'm certainly no expert, so if I'm offbase here certainly feel free to let me know, but isn't this issue directly related to the fact that true HD is transmitted with black level at 0 IRE where SD is transmitted with black level at 7.5 IRE?

An easy way to verify this would be to use the expanded black level setting (0 IRE) on your DVD player, calibrate your black level using Avia/VE and then see how the black level looks on HD broadcasts. I would suspect you will find the black levels are then appropriately set for HD, but regardless it would be interesting to read posted here the results of such a test.
Danstone,

What you say makes sense, but a number of people have had ISF calibrated sets and/or migrated from other HD sources (DirectTV, OTA, etc.) where the problem didn't exist. I personally thought that in my case the issue was a) my set is as of yet not professionally calibrated and b) my previous HD viewing at home was on an LCD projector, which unfortunately can't really "do black." However, it is my inclination to think that the picture is overly dark. As a result, I'm not going to have my set calibrated until the 5100 software "settles down," and no software releases are planned that might affect the image in terms of gamma, black level, etc.

I am not sure as I have not looked hard enough but a test pattern would be great for Comcast. Do I have to stay up late for this? If so what channel? I vote for a calibration channel. Extremely important

Also, is there a way to reassign the digital local channels to represent what they really are? (2, 4, 7 etc) To be honest this should be seemless and just appear as another channel 2, 4, or 7

My Directv receiver did this in a fashion where they were located in the relative area of the local channels (7-1, 4-1) and you could cancel out the analog channels to make it transparent when surfing.

Who wants to learn another channel when it already exists? For those here its not so bad but the wife and kids who KNOW what channels their favorite shows are on it makes the difference. Channel 7, not 180-190

rb

fore.aces
I also have 2.14. Am planning on calling AT&T sometime today to let them know of all the issues the new box has. Will also ask when they are expecting the new software.....

I would make the suggestion to Comcast that they put either the Video Essentials disc or Avia on their video-on-demand (VOD) menu. I certainly would pay to calibrate my system using those sources.

I would make the suggestion to Comcast that they put either the Video Essentials disc or Avia on their video-on-demand (VOD) menu. I certainly would pay to calibrate my system using those sources.

You me and a maybe two other geeks would pay. ;-) The vast majority of people don't give a crap ... not really worth the effort on Comcast's part!

Broadcasting a simple 480p test pattern and adding some basic user controls (contrast, brightness and color) to the 5100 would suffice. The cost and bandwith to broadcast that would be minimal. (Assuming Moto would add the controls to the box.)

Originally posted by joe12south
You me and a maybe two other geeks would pay. ;-) The vast majority of people don't give a crap ... not really worth the effort on Comcast's part!

Broadcasting a simple 480p test pattern and adding some basic user controls (contrast, brightness and color) to the 5100 would suffice. The cost and bandwith to broadcast that would be minimal. (Assuming Moto would add the controls to the box.)

I asked Motorola and when the Video Inputs are activated they WILL upconvert to the component output. This will enable you to run your DVD player through the 5100 with a VE or Avia, and calibrate that input on your TV. But they do not have the go ahead on the activation, yet. This would be alot easier, then trying to integrate Brightness, Contrast & color controls into the 5100.

miatasm,
That's a nice feature, but it really doesn't address the issue of being able to calibrate a DVD player and a 5100 separately.

I think a fairly typical installation is going to be a component 5100 and a component DVD player feeding one display. If I calibrate my display for the 5100, my DVD's will be washed out. If I calibrate my display for the DVD player, then my HD will be too dark.

I know that it's not trvial to do, but if Motorola really wants to get this right they need to add basic picture controls.

Originally posted by RalphArch
You have to program the Motorola remote with your receiver's code for it to properly control the volume before you take the above steps.

I want to use the 9-9-3 tweak too!

I am using an Onkyo TXSR-500 receiver. How do I find out the appropriate receiever code so I can program the Motorola remote? Anyone know what it is?

Then, once I have the code....how do I program the code in?

Originally posted by ClaudeD
What you say makes sense, but a number of people have had ISF calibrated sets and/or migrated from other HD sources (DirectTV, OTA, etc.) where the problem didn't exist. I personally thought that in my case the issue was a) my set is as of yet not professionally calibrated and b) my previous HD viewing at home was on an LCD projector, which unfortunately can't really "do black." However, it is my inclination to think that the picture is overly dark. As a result, I'm not going to have my set calibrated until the 5100 software "settles down," and no software releases are planned that might affect the image in terms of gamma, black level, etc.

It's also interesting to note that it was discussed in some of the other forums about overly dark blacks in HD using the DVHS decks and CRT front projectors so I'm not sure the problem is something exclusive to the Motorola box and/or cable transmission. I seem to recall a solution was finally found for the overly dark DVHS picture so perhaps a review of that thread may be in order to see if anything may be of help here. If I can find anything that seems relevant I'll post it. Likewise, maybe others can do the same so can all come up with the answer.

The issue is almost certainly that most pre-HD sources (DVD players, etc.) use a black level of 7.5 IRE, while the new HD standard is 0 IRE. So a display that is calibrated for the former will make HD look too dark. If one calibrates for HD, though, then their other sources will be too light. I guess you could calibrate for a happy medium, but it's a pretty big difference and if you're anal enough to care about HD then you probably don't want to make that compromise.

If basic picture controls are beyond what can be done with the firmware, then it would be nice if the 5100 had a simple toggle for which black level to output.

I'd really like the picture controls, though, because the color balance on my 5100 is just slightly greener than from my DVD player.

I want to use the 9-9-3 tweak too!
I am using an Onkyo TXSR-500 receiver. How do I find out the appropriate receiever code so I can program the Motorola remote? Anyone know what it is?

Then, once I have the code....how do I program the code in?


I did it by brute force at the oneforall web site. There are quite a number of remotes and codes I had to try; but I found one eventually that did work.

For example, here (http://www.oneforall.com/index2.html) is one for the cinema 6 or something like it that lists 2 codes for Onkyo. The procedure is in the document.

So I just went on trying all of them until it worked, but do't remember which one it was that worked. It really didn't take that long to test a number of them out.

Would be nice if someone, or COMCAST, could post back a particular one that does work.

EDIT
Well I did find the manufacture's link for the COMCAST remote (http://www.uei.com/products/cable/navigator.html) Its called Navigator

And the procedure to set the codes is on a decal on the back of my remote. Repeated in case you are missing:

1. find 3 digit code
2. press device key to be programmed Then press setup key until red led blinks twice
3. enter 3 digit code

I went on the Remote Central's forum a while back asking for the set up codes for the remote that Comcast provided with regular digital cable. The following was the reply:

You can get the answer to most OFA questions on this web site: http://www.hifi-remote.com

Any OFA remote that has the 6-pin connector is programmable using JP1.

Here's the Navigator info:

http://www.hifi-remote.com/urc/cblnav.html

I figure that since the remote is the same, this info should still hold.

Please. no one has answered my question on how to find the software numbers on the 5100(51.00-1132 or 5100-1096). What menu do I need to go into to find these numbers? Thanks!

fore.aces,
I can't remember exactly, but it's in the user menu/guide (not the menu you access when the box is turned off.) It's called something like "set-up" I think. On the far right column.

If you haven't found it by the time I get home, I'll find it and let you know.

Originally posted by fore.aces
Please. no one has answered my question on how to find the software numbers on the 5100(51.00-1132 or 5100-1096). What menu do I need to go into to find these numbers? Thanks!

Main Menu <ok/select> --> Setup <ok/select> --> Cable Box <ok select> --> See Configuration <right arrow> --> S/W Ver: Upgraded 51.00-1132 / Not Upgraded 51.00-1096 think?) --> Firmware: "00" Upgraded / "04" Not Upgraded

More detailed Info is here:

Power 5100 off --> press "OK/Select" button --> arrow down to d09 "Code Modules" press "ok/select" --> Bootloader: 02.15 Firmware: 2.40 After Upgrade

miatasm-- It's REALLY great that you are participating here!

miatasm-- It's REALLY great that you are participating here!

Amen! Because I didn't actually have to buy this STB ($5/mo. is dirt cheap compared to $600) I had no expectation of seeing, much less participating in, any improvements to this product.

I'm pleasantly surpised that people at Comcast & Moto care at all. Thanks.

Originally posted by juris98
I want to use the 9-9-3 tweak too!

I am using an Onkyo TXSR-500 receiver. How do I find out the appropriate receiever code so I can program the Motorola remote? Anyone know what it is?

Then, once I have the code....how do I program the code in?

I have a TXSR-600 and the code "135" works for my unit. The only problem with the Onkyo units is that there are 2 seperate discrete codes for on and off. So the Comcast remote will only turn the unit "on". It will control your volume though using the above code.

Press Audio --> Press & hold "setup" untill light flashes 2x --> type in 3 digit code "135" light will flash again.

This unit is fully programmable using the JP1 cable "link listed above" which I think costs $10 if you want to make it yourself.

I actually just bought a URC9910 OFA remote off of Ebay for less than $50 shipped and it comes with a IR/RF remote extender. This is replacing my very well used URC8800, which did everything I wanted it to plus some. The 9910 is supposed to be even better. I've really had good experience with the OFA products and you can't beat the prices.

This maybe another so-called "Easter Egg" you can search for codes manually by doing this:

Press the button of the equipment you need to program (Audio, TV, VCR) --> Press & Hold Setup til light flashes press 9-9-1 --> Press the equipment button again then press "power" --> Alternate back & forth between the Equipment button & "Power" until your unit shuts off --> then press "setup" to lock that code in (this searches all of the codes in the remotes database so it may take some time.

Also once you do get your remote the correct code and you do not want to have to search for it again do this:

Press Device Key (Audio, TV, VCR, ect.) --> press & hld "Setup" --> type 9-9-0 --> For the First Number of your code press the "1" & wait 3 seconds, the LED will flash the first number in your code press "2" for the second number & "3" for the third. IF your remote flashes once - then twice - then twice your code is "122"

Hope this helps

With GG2's message, I started looking for more information on the Navigator remote control. Found a link to the Navigator Remote Control User Guide. Contains all programming instructions and codes.

Navigator Remote Control User Guide (http://test.starstream.net/support/cable/navigator.pdf)

With this info, I'll setup the 9-9-3 Volume Lock tweak!

Originally posted by juris98
With GG2's message, I started looking for more information on the Navigator remote control. Found a link to the Navigator Remote Control User Guide. Contains all programming instructions and codes.

Navigator Remote Control User Guide (http://test.starstream.net/support/cable/navigator.pdf)

With this info, I'll setup the 9-9-3 Volume Lock tweak!

Damn This would have saved me alot of typing, Oh well!!! Thanks juris.

Miatasm, thanks for the reply,Idefinately have no updates on my 5100. i really appreciate your help!1

Miatasm,

Hold off on the praises of the 9910. I've had it for 2 months, and while it's a great unit for all the features that it packs in, along with JP1 programming, you'll waste all the cost savings by replacing batteriess every week or so.

Originally posted by joe12south
Amen! Because I didn't actually have to buy this STB ($5/mo. is dirt cheap compared to $600) I had no expectation of seeing, much less participating in, any improvements to this product.

I'm pleasantly surpised that people at Comcast & Moto care at all. Thanks.

You know what, that's a damn good point.

We have to pull teeth from the companies gouging us with exhorbitant prices on STBs to get them to even recognize that their boxes have faults. And then we have to wait months for them to offer half a solution.

Cheers to Comcast and Motorola for acting and reacting so quickly. We always bitch and moan about how bad customer service is these days - for good reason - so it's nice to see an exception to the rule.

Found a link to the Navigator Remote Control User Guide. Contains all programming instructions and codes.

That's a great 2 pages on the Navigator. COMCAST should xerox and provide with their installations - especially considering how important it is to set up the TV and receiver and VCR with the remote for most people.

Cheers to Comcast and Motorola for acting and reacting so quickly.
Amen to that. With no disrespect intended, Comcast and Motorola would not have been my first guess as to who would win the customer service contest; but, hey, there you go!

Originally posted by danstone
I'm certainly no expert, so if I'm offbase here certainly feel free to let me know, but isn't this issue directly related to the fact that true HD is transmitted with black level at 0 IRE where SD is transmitted with black level at 7.5 IRE?

An easy way to verify this would be to use the expanded black level setting (0 IRE) on your DVD player, calibrate your black level using Avia/VE and then see how the black level looks on HD broadcasts. I would suspect you will find the black levels are then appropriately set for HD, but regardless it would be interesting to read posted here the results of such a test.

And that is what I did. On my Denon 1600 I set the black level to "darker" which I assume is 0IRE and set the black level using first AVIA, which results in too dark but is a good ball park, then using thie "5th Element Black Tie" technique I picked up from Eliab. On the Pro520HD 480p and 1080i share the same memory offset so if DVDs look right so should HD. But it does not.

And it certainly varies among content. "Harry Potter" was certinaly the worst case, with the Forbidden Forrest lacking any shadow detail.

Originally posted by miatasm
I asked Motorola and when the Video Inputs are activated they WILL upconvert to the component output. This will enable you to run your DVD player through the 5100 with a VE or Avia, and calibrate that input on your TV. But they do not have the go ahead on the activation, yet. This would be alot easier, then trying to integrate Brightness, Contrast & color controls into the 5100.

But if the HDD-200 is any indication the analog inputs totally dork the black level of the input video. I tried to calibrate against a DVD player using my HDD-200 in this manner and the result, while OK for stuff going into the box via these inputs was a complete disaster for HD. It did not work.

I don't expect any different from the DCT5100

Just give us the black level and color controls on the box. Even without a test pattern on the wire we can still eyeball it and get a result we are pleased with. Please.

Oh, and give us a way to change the position of both 480i and 1080i output video on the box. My TV chops 1080i off at the top and untill I browbeat Pioneer to fix it I am seriously missing the ability to change the video position that the HDD-200 had. Being able to move the menu GFX around is not enough. On the analog side, analog channles are shifted to the left. I;d like to either see that fixed or have the ability to do it myself.

Originally posted by sangs

Cheers to Comcast and Motorola for acting and reacting so quickly.

Heh, as an owner of a DSR-920 satellite receiver I find that statement somewhat, tragically, funny.

True Story: Motorola asked a few folks to participate in a field trial for new firmware for the DSR-920 (AKA 4DTV). Then they downlaoded a buggy beta. We reported a gob of bugs and awaited the next version to test. It never came. Then Mot announced there would be no furter developemnt on the firmware in the forseeable future and told us to send our boxes to a service center and *pay* for it to be reflashed back to the release version. That was about three months ago.

Since Mot is activly persuing the cable market I suspect we will not get the same teatment. :-)

And it IS good to see the Mot people up here becuase trying to raise these issues with AT&T is futile.

Originally posted by RalphArch
That's a great 2 pages on the Navigator. COMCAST should xerox and provide with their installations - especially considering how important it is to set up the TV and receiver and VCR with the remote for most people.

So I take it not everybody got the manual with the remote? I only ask because the installer gave me a pamphlet during the install and it is exactly the same documentation that the above link leads to.

So I take it not everybody got the manual with the remote? I only ask because the installer gave me a pamphlet during the install and it is exactly the same documentation that the above link leads to.

I didn't - if so I wouldn't have had to try a bunch of different remote codes to get it working. And I suspect that the others above in this thread didn't either or they wouldn't have been asking how to do it.

You appear to be the exception rather than the rule (to leaving the documentation).

I also got nothing on the box itself; but as others have posted I now have it as I downloaded from WEB. This documentation should be provided on initial install in my mind.

By the way - the "easter egg" actually is right in the documentation under volume lock -

I had it, forgot about it, downloaded this, then found it when I was going through some old manuals. Go figure.
Found a great little helper on there too last night: Whenever the remote was set to TV, and you pressed the channel up/down, my TV (Panny 34xw50) would automatically switch its input to the cable coax in, and change channels on the TV instead of changing the cable box channel. Since the oneforall doesn't have a button for changing the video input on the TV, I was forced to dig for the TV remote or get off my butt and change the TV video-in selection back to the component input from the Moto 5100. Boo-hoo, I know, but it was irritating, and difficult for visitors to figure out what was going on.
But! I discovered reading the guide that there is "lock channel change" code (996?) that enabled me to lock the channel change to the cable box only, much like locking the volume to either the TV or the audio. Big help!
Of course a bigger help would be having a working button for the Video in selection, or getting a function on the Panny remote that would allow me to get "info" on the channels and view the guides on the cable box.. guess I'll have to invest in one of the "fancy" remotes for that. :-)

miatasm,

Is there any word on what Comcast will do to allow those of us that require VGA (or RGBHV) video outputs to use the 5100? I cannot use the component video output on the 5100 and the HDD-200 allowed me to switch the video outputs to be RGBHV. I just spent 45 minutes on the phone with a very helpful comcast tech support person who did his best to figure out what could be done for me. Although the final answer was "not much". He was very helpful in the process.

He said he heard of some sort of converter but noone in the call center knew anything about it. He suggested I call Motorola or see if there was something available at Radio Shack. :( I said he was helpful, I didn't say he had the best ideas. :D

I plan to write Comcast a letter describing my issues and praising the specific tech I spoke with. Which is really saying someting if you've read any of my past rants regarding comcast support people. I figure if we are going to complain when the service sucks, we should also make sure to let them know when the service is good as well.

So do you have any specifics as to what I should be asking for when I call again trying to get the 5100 box and rid myself of the $10.95 a month rental fee for the HDD-200? BTW, I think my account is handled out of the Plymouth Meeting Office here in PA.

Lastly. Could you ask Motorola if they have any plans to add a VGA or RGBHV output to the 5100 similar to the one that exists on the HDD-200?

Thanks,

Eric (Frustrated Comcast HDTV customer) Finn

Eric,

Key Digital has a component to VGA (RGBHV) convertor. Unfortunately, it's $349.

Key Digital has a component to VGA (RGBHV) convertor.


its $299 (https://www.dcpuraty.com/store/Product_List.asp?CID=3&MFG=KEY%20DIGITAL)

I would also recommend the Key Digital. I tried the Audio Authority and it would only do 480p for me. Fortunately DigitalConnections allowed me to exchange for KD which does 1080i as well.

Eric

I purchased a 30 foot long component to 15 pin connector cable from projector people for approx $100.00 to hook up component inputs to my Pj which accepts component inputs through its VGA port. This may work for you.

Rob

Actually, here are the issues. I've got a Barco BG808 that I run from a Quadscan Elite processor. I run one cable from the QS to the projector so I use it as a switcher, as well as a scaler.

In order to send the full bandwidth HD signal through the QS I need to use the VGA input on the scaler. Then I set the scaler to VGA pass through. None of the other inputs will accept an HD signal properly. I'm currently using an RGB/HV to 15-pin VGA cable I got from www.avcable.com. It works great with the HDD-200 because it can output the RGBHV output signal and connect it to the VGA input connector on the QS.

I don't see the point in buying a $300 converter to save $10.95/month. I was hoping that Comcast would provide the solution since they provided the problem. :)

I know that Miatasm had suggested in an earlier thread that Comcast would provide such a box for those that still required a VGA output. I'm hoping that I can come up with some other solution besides the Key Digital one.

Thanks for the help and suggestions though.

Eric

Originally posted by ianken
And that is what I did. On my Denon 1600 I set the black level to "darker" which I assume is 0IRE and set the black level using first AVIA, which results in too dark but is a good ball park, then using thie "5th Element Black Tie" technique I picked up from Eliab. On the Pro520HD 480p and 1080i share the same memory offset so if DVDs look right so should HD. But it does not.

And it certainly varies among content. "Harry Potter" was certinaly the worst case, with the Forbidden Forrest lacking any shadow detail.

ianken,

Thank you very much for trying that and posting your findings. While I'm sorry it didn't solve your problem, the info should be helpful in trying to diagnose the situation and find a solution.

As many have stated, it will be very nice when these boxes (as well as others STB's) start including picture adjustment controls, but hopefully an interim fix can be found in the meantime, especially now that Motorola and/or Comcast seem to be involved in this thread.

Originally posted by EricFinn
miatasm,

Is there any word on what Comcast will do to allow those of us that require VGA (or RGBHV) video outputs to use the 5100? I cannot use the component video output on the 5100 and the HDD-200 allowed me to switch the video outputs to be RGBHV. I just spent 45 minutes on the phone with a very helpful comcast tech support person who did his best to figure out what could be done for me. Although the final answer was "not much". He was very helpful in the process.

He said he heard of some sort of converter but noone in the call center knew anything about it. He suggested I call Motorola or see if there was something available at Radio Shack. :( I said he was helpful, I didn't say he had the best ideas. :D

I plan to write Comcast a letter describing my issues and praising the specific tech I spoke with. Which is really saying someting if you've read any of my past rants regarding comcast support people. I figure if we are going to complain when the service sucks, we should also make sure to let them know when the service is good as well.

So do you have any specifics as to what I should be asking for when I call again trying to get the 5100 box and rid myself of the $10.95 a month rental fee for the HDD-200? BTW, I think my account is handled out of the Plymouth Meeting Office here in PA.

Lastly. Could you ask Motorola if they have any plans to add a VGA or RGBHV output to the 5100 similar to the one that exists on the HDD-200?

Thanks,

Eric (Frustrated Comcast HDTV customer) Finn

The next generation 5100's will have DVI output.

I have a list of Part numbers for the following products but don't yet know if they are from Motorola or Comcast (I'm working on figuring out who is actually offering these pieces).

RCA to BNC
RCA to VGA
Component to RGBHV

I will find out When & more importantly, Where these will be availble. As it seems only certain areas are adopting the extra parts needed to correctly & fully do an install for the 5100.

Originally posted by joe12south
miatasm,
That's a nice feature, but it really doesn't address the issue of being able to calibrate a DVD player and a 5100 separately.

I think a fairly typical installation is going to be a component 5100 and a component DVD player feeding one display. If I calibrate my display for the 5100, my DVD's will be washed out. If I calibrate my display for the DVD player, then my HD will be too dark.

I know that it's not trvial to do, but if Motorola really wants to get this right they need to add basic picture controls.

This is true, but most displays allow you to change the Video settings on each input. Even if they don't most Displays have a couple of different Video settings like "Sports, Movie, News, ect." that could be calibrated with different settings and are usually accessable via one button on your TV remote.

I wouldn't expect Motorola to get into Picture Controls on the box. I think this is asking a little bit too much, considering I have yet to see even one DVD, Satellite STB, VCR, A/V receiver, ect. have these controls you are asking for. The manufactures of these products all probably feel too much can go wrong if the customers can control the same settings from 2 different units. It should be done by only one piece of equipment and that should always be the display, I personally wouldn't want it any other way.

What was ABC doing tonight around 9 pm tonight? It was all this HD demo stuff. Very strange. Looked cool, but odd.

Originally posted by miatasm
... but most displays allow you to change the Video settings on each input. Even if they don't most Displays have a couple of different Video settings like "Sports, Movie, News, ect." that could be calibrated with different settings and are usually accessable via one button on your TV remote.

It should be done by only one piece of equipment and that should always be the display, I personally wouldn't want it any other way.

If the 5100 output a signal that was to spec I would agree. Looking at how much darker the 5100 HD is compared to say my Sony HDD-100 or my buddies Mits HD box on the exatc same content I would say that both the 5100 and the earlier HDD-200 are sometwhat off in this regard. It is a problem with this box. Fix it or give us the ability to fix it. One or the other. I don't care which one it is.

Meanwhile I'll run the DCT into a dedicated input on my Pro520 but not eveyone has that option.

I noticed it too, and posted on the Programming Forum. It was very odd to watch the HD promos at peak prime time. I wonder if it was a tech screwup, or they actually meant to broadcast that.

The guide does not seem to remember what channel you are currently on. It may be switching from analog to digital to HD or simply over time. In other words if I am on channel 190 I hit the guide button and it lists channels 1-7 etc, I would expect to be in the 190's... Now if I traverse to channel 190 via guide then select, and hit the guide again it then remembers I am in the 190's of selection. Has anyone else seen this?

rb

Originally posted by rbaldwin
The guide does not seem to remember what channel you are currently on. It may be switching from analog to digital to HD or simply over time. In other words if I am on channel 190 I hit the guide button and it lists channels 1-7 etc, I would expect to be in the 190's... Now if I traverse to channel 190 via guide then select, and hit the guide again it then remembers I am in the 190's of selection. Has anyone else seen this?

rb

This is a design of the box, in fact it has been that way since the DCT2000 was released. It will only re-enter back to your original position in the guide if you are currently viewing a channel that you selected from the guide. Just don't ask me why....

2 quick questions.......

1) the first I asked earlier in this thread but it went unanswered....I assume that the answer is no...........the question is....are there discrete on/off codes for remotes for this box....anyone found any?

2) I know I saw it somewhere prior in this thread, and have looked through all pages (skimmed), but can't seem to find it.........how do you check your firmware version, and what is the latest update?

Originally posted by Tachy
2 quick questions.......

1) the first I asked earlier in this thread but it went unanswered....I assume that the answer is no...........the question is....are there discrete on/off codes for remotes for this box....anyone found any?

2) I know I saw it somewhere prior in this thread, and have looked through all pages (skimmed), but can't seem to find it.........how do you check your firmware version, and what is the latest update?

No there are no discrete on/off codes for the 5100 that I'm aware of.

Go back one page about halfway down I posted this info.

Main Menu <ok/select> --> Setup <ok/select> --> Cable Box <ok select> --> See Configuration <right arrow> --> S/W Ver: Upgraded 51.00-1132 / Not Upgraded 51.00-1096 think?) --> Firmware: "00" Upgraded / "04" Not Upgraded

More detailed Info is here:

Power 5100 off --> press "OK/Select" button --> arrow down to d09 "Code Modules" press "ok/select" --> Bootloader: 02.15 Firmware: 2.40 After Upgrade

Thanks for the info.

Originally posted by miatasm
...Just don't ask me why....

Considering the guide is from Gemsdtar-TVGuide: patent issues? :-)

Bah, doesn't matter. The guide on the box is useless anyway. Seriously : who at Gemstar-TVGuide/Motorola/Comcast thinks the guide on this box is anything other than complete dreck?

That's why I'm glad there is no guide or GUI output on SVID when the component output is set to 1080i : makes using the ReplayTV guide that much slicker.

Miatasm,

Thanks for the reply and all your help answering everyones questions. The information you provide is invaluable.

rb

Originally posted by ianken
Considering the guide is from Gemsdtar-TVGuide: patent issues? :-)

Bah, doesn't matter. The guide on the box is useless anyway. Seriously : who at Gemstar-TVGuide/Motorola/Comcast thinks the guide on this box is anything other than complete dreck?

That's why I'm glad there is no guide or GUI output on SVID when the component output is set to 1080i : makes using the ReplayTV guide that much slicker.

For a majority of people who use Comcast the guide isn't all that bad.....its better than nothing. I agree its not great, but for the average user it gives them something better than the ssslllooowww scrolling TV guide channel. The replay TV I would say is for more advanced users like us on the forum but consdiering there are only 50,000 registered members here and Comcast has over 6 million Digital Cable customer and 21 million total subscribers, Comcast can start them off easy with this Guide setup and ease them into a better one later on when its needed. Again remember the flexability Motorola has with the firmware on these boxes, a different guide and menu is only a download away.

I've had Digital cable for more than 5 years now, and I remember the first TV Guide was absolutle atroucious, but at the time it was the best thing I ever saw. Then they moved to the current format and......Its only a matter of time. Remember every request that is posted here is seen, I doesn't even matter if its HDTV related or not.

The program guide is quick, but they give up quite a bit of real-estate to ads. I hope it's cost-effective for them. In my case, as for many others, ReplayTV is the guide I use (though it is a bit of a pain when I'm in a zoom mode and I cut off part of the guide -- another few button presses I could live without :) ).

Not to get greedy, but now that the football playoffs are approaching, it would be really nice to have CBS. I assume that there's no way to get CBS in time for the playoffs, but I hope that progress is being made in getting additional HD channels (Discovery, HDnet, CBS, PBS...). I already have a backlog of things to watch on my Replay (I upgraded my hard drive because of HD), but I would still like more choices.

Originally posted by ClaudeD
The program guide is quick, but they give up quite a bit of real-estate to ads. I hope it's cost-effective for them. In my case, as for many others, ReplayTV is the guide I use (though it is a bit of a pain when I'm in a zoom mode and I cut off part of the guide -- another few button presses I could live without :) ).

Not to get greedy, but now that the football playoffs are approaching, it would be really nice to have CBS. I assume that there's no way to get CBS in time for the playoffs, but I hope that progress is being made in getting additional HD channels (Discovery, HDnet, CBS, PBS...). I already have a backlog of things to watch on my Replay (I upgraded my hard drive because of HD), but I would still like more choices.

I haven't heard any updates on more HD channels. Usually when this info gets to me its already Public Domain, and I will see 50 posts on the forum by the time I get home about it:mad: :confused: :) . I don't think CBS will be online by then but anything can happen. I still don't understand why the PBS loop is not up there in NNJ yet. That boggles my mind.

I didn't know that the NFL Playoffs were in HD on CBS? Oh my Samsung SIRT150 is going to get a workout this winter!!!

fore.aces, I am in the Seattle area as well and I just received my 5100 box without the firmware update. Have you heard anything from AT&T about their plans for the update?

Miatasm,

From another thread nearby: "CBS Television and Thomson's RCA brand have entered into an advertising agreement for Thomson (Euronext Paris: 18453) (NYSE: TMS - News) to sponsor high-definition coverage of the AFC Divisional Playoff games on January 11 and 12, 2003, and the AFC Championship game on January 19, 2003."

I have an antenna and a SIR-T150, but the reception is so erratic that I don't think I'm going to try.

Robsum, I have called every department AT&T has got, the only answer I've received is "don't know what you are talking about, I'll transfer you to-----!" Well, the last oerson i spoke to gave me a phone # which nobody answers. The install guys(3) did not even leave a manual, and they had no idea what an "UPDATE" was. I hav not given up yet, Maybe the only way is to find someone in upper management, give him a list of your questions & see if he can get some answers. My update numbers are Software(50-1078)Firmware(2.14 or 4)BL(2.15). I think were behind about 2 updates. If you get any info, let me know!