Nor would I attach anything to the chimney, or drill a hole thru a water tight roof. I recall reading somewhere to never attach anything to a masonry chimney. So I won’t. besides, I’ve been thru 3 setups of dish when it got hit by lightning 3 separate times at my parent’s rural residence. The business radio antenna, 40 ft, had a direct hit once, burning 3 inches of the element, and starting a small fire. This strike also took out the telephone, a large door opener, 2 TVs and severely magnetized a computer monitor 60 foot from the tower. So this is why I refuse to attach any tower, etc to my house.

WCIA channel info?
Is anyone else having this problem.. If I turn my antenna away from their tower & lose their signal I can get the channel info on my PHILIPS HDTV, if I turn the antenna back to pick up their signal, I lose the channel info!?

Give them (WCIA) another year or so.. they'll have their problems worked out by then!? LOL J/K
Later, Phil B.

What happened to the HD at half on the SIU / VT game? Its not often i get to see my salukis in HD, now im getting robbed. Did someone forget to push the button at CIA?

Dr.

never mind.. its back

Dr.

What happened to the HD at half on the SIU / VT game? Its not often i get to see my salukis in HD, now im getting robbed. Did someone forget to push the button at CIA?

Dr.

I believe it has to do with the fixed/flex feeds that CBS was providing them. In order for them to stay with the SUI game, they had to switch to SD while the CBS HD probably went to the end of th Wisconson game. When they did do a "look in" on the end of Wisconson it was in HD. When that game was over, they were able to take the HD flex feed again of the sui game again. I've read of other situitions like this over at DBS talk. If that is the case, they did a good job of switching.

see post #86 here...

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=81730&page=4 (http://)


oh and it's looking like you'll get to see them again in the next round :)

Is the Dish 622 the only receiver that's having problems with WCIA's high power signal? I'm going to post this problem on the 622 forum at dbstalk.com to see if others might have had the same problem when their locals stations upped their power levels. If no one else seems to have overload/multipath problems with strong signals on a 622, it almost suggests that there's something different about WCIA's signal that triggers the problem. Actually WAND's signal reads higher than WCIA's 50% power signal (100 out of 100 on the 622's meter), but is completely stable.

I don't envy WCIA's engineers in getting this sorted out.

Looks like WCIA turned the power back up. I'm getting a signal again in the Charleston - Mattoon area.

It doesn't seem as strong as last week at my location. I'm getting 86% at 23 dB. Last week I had 100% at 29-30 dB.

We
Can't
Install
Antennas

Where
Channel 3
Isn't
Available

We heard from the Nexstar corporate engineer today that Thales, the manufacturer of our transmitter, has acknowledged that some of their exciters are causing problems in the Dish 622 receiver. They've apparently known about this for the past three weeks and are working with Dish to resolve it.

When we hit the air March 11, we had no way of knowing those specific receivers would be affected. I did not author the statement on our website, but the general manager and I made the decision to stay on the low power transmitter. Our city of license is Champaign; it was a hard call, but we decided it would be best to serve Champaign with the best possible signal at the expense of other outlying areas.

Thales is supposed to send us a replacement exciter ASAP to rectify this problem. At that time we will return to the high-power rig and stay there. I've had it on today so we could conduct some field tests, but it'll be turned off within the hour to go back to the low-power.

We do apologize for everyone's problems, but in this instance it was out of our control.

We heard from the Nexstar corporate engineer today that Thales, the manufacturer of our transmitter, has acknowledged that some of their exciters are causing problems in the Dish 622 receiver. They've apparently known about this for the past three weeks and are working with Dish to resolve it.

When we hit the air March 11, we had no way of knowing those specific receivers would be affected. I did not author the statement on our website, but the general manager and I made the decision to stay on the low power transmitter. Our city of license is Champaign; it was a hard call, but we decided it would be best to serve Champaign with the best possible signal at the expense of other outlying areas.

That's kind of an odd decision. I would think the best way to affect the fewest amount of viewers would be to leave the high-power transmitter on so everyone can view the digital signal, and leave the Dish 622 viewers with the analog feed until you get your new exciter.

We heard from the Nexstar corporate engineer today that Thales, the manufacturer of our transmitter, has acknowledged that some of their exciters are causing problems in the Dish 622 receiver. They've apparently known about this for the past three weeks and are working with Dish to resolve it.

When we hit the air March 11, we had no way of knowing those specific receivers would be affected. I did not author the statement on our website, but the general manager and I made the decision to stay on the low power transmitter. Our city of license is Champaign; it was a hard call, but we decided it would be best to serve Champaign with the best possible signal at the expense of other outlying areas.

Thales is supposed to send us a replacement exciter ASAP to rectify this problem. At that time we will return to the high-power rig and stay there. I've had it on today so we could conduct some field tests, but it'll be turned off within the hour to go back to the low-power.

We do apologize for everyone's problems, but in this instance it was out of our control.


You go to low power and keep all of the area from watching CBS in HD just so a small amount of customers with one type of receiver can receive the signal!!!! What kind of an idiotic desicision is that. The amount of people with the 622 receiver must be a very small percentage of your customers and yet you make this your reason for going to low power, thats unbelieveable!!!!

You go to low power and keep all of the area from watching CBS in HD just so a small amount of customers with one type of receiver can receive the signal!!!! What kind of an idiotic desicision is that. The amount of people with the 622 receiver must be a very small percentage of your customers and yet you make this your reason for going to low power, thats unbelieveable!!!!

Duh! So what's new? What do you expect from them? Especially considering their past performance.

Our city of license is Champaign; it was a hard call, but we decided it would be best to serve Champaign with the best possible signal at the expense of other outlying areas.


Well on behalf of all of us persona non grata in that outlying area known as "Urbana", WCIA can kiss my furry left nut.

We heard from the Nexstar corporate engineer today that Thales, the manufacturer of our transmitter, has acknowledged that some of their exciters are causing problems in the Dish 622 receiver. They've apparently known about this for the past three weeks and are working with Dish to resolve it.
Can anyone be a tad more specific about the nature of the problem with the Dish 622? I.E., what does "the problem" manifest itself as?

OK... attempting to be a voice of reason here.

Sure, it's frustrating that WCIA is having its share of problems. And in hindsight, it's easy to question the recent decision they made to lower their power. However, it seems they are trying to sort the problems out. And WCIAchief is being gracious enough to keep us in the loop. So, can we cut the guys at WCIA some slack and let them do their job? I'm sure they've got enough to deal with as it is without a bunch of armchair engineers trying to tell them what to do.

One other thought. At some point, if I were WCIAchief, I'd probably consider NOT posting any more information given the reaction on this forum. I, for one, would hate to see that happen. It's good to have a voice from WCIA speaking to us. It would be a shame to see that voice go silent.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Flame suit on... :rolleyes:

We heard from the Nexstar corporate engineer today that Thales, the manufacturer of our transmitter, has acknowledged that some of their exciters are causing problems in the Dish 622 receiver. They've apparently known about this for the past three weeks and are working with Dish to resolve it.

When we hit the air March 11, we had no way of knowing those specific receivers would be affected. I did not author the statement on our website, but the general manager and I made the decision to stay on the low power transmitter. Our city of license is Champaign; it was a hard call, but we decided it would be best to serve Champaign with the best possible signal at the expense of other outlying areas.

Thales is supposed to send us a replacement exciter ASAP to rectify this problem. At that time we will return to the high-power rig and stay there. I've had it on today so we could conduct some field tests, but it'll be turned off within the hour to go back to the low-power.

We do apologize for everyone's problems, but in this instance it was out of our control.
Thanks, WCIAchief! Is there any way for a compromise...to go to somewhat higher power for now, say 50 kw, to cover Champaign without the DISH network problem acting up? Will the FCC let you do that (without spending the time and resources to get an STA)?

OK... attempting to be a voice of reason here.

Sure, it's frustrating that WCIA is having its share of problems. And in hindsight, it's easy to question the recent decision they made to lower their power. However, it seems they are trying to sort the problems out. And WCIAchief is being gracious enough to keep us in the loop. So, can we cut the guys at WCIA some slack and let them do their job? I'm sure they've got enough to deal with as it is without a bunch of armchair engineers trying to tell them what to do.

One other thought. At some point, if I were WCIAchief, I'd probably consider NOT posting any more information given the reaction on this forum. I, for one, would hate to see that happen. It's good to have a voice from WCIA speaking to us. It would be a shame to see that voice go silent.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Flame suit on... :rolleyes:

No. I'm not going to "cut them some slack."

It's the same damn incompetence/excuse treadmill that WCIA has been loping along for the last 2+ years. It never ends...

Gilbert --- My guess is that WCIA already has a couple guys just like you working for them. This would help explain why they are unable to get on the air.
What I hope to convince of you of is to say that nearly all of these problems WCIA is facing---from being late at full power---to the current problem with the transmitter exciter---are something that WCIA has had absolutely no control over. In fact, look at the posts above...when they went full power,quite a few people on this list couldn't get them...not just because of the Dish issue, but because of the multipath and overloading. This is not a single, easy issue to fix. Both sides of this equation will need fixing.

I am not saying that what they did was the best answer; but what you are doing is like blaming the weatherman because it rained. As I have stated multiple times, I am sure that locally everything didn't go perfectly well with decision-making. But when corporate headquarters says you stay at low power until early 2007, it is not WCIA's fault. When the exciter goes bad (note: it is affecting numerous stations, not WCIA), it is not WCIA's fault, and the engineer has identified the solution and is working on getting it fixed as soon as possible.

Finally, even with these unquestionable, substantiated facts that I in fact broke to this and several other boards almost a year ago with regards to the high power issue, I have absolutely no reason to question the soundness of local management on their decision to do what they did. Maybe it was a horrible decision, but it sure sounds like to me that it was the least worst-case scenario.
Furthermore, the timing was the worst possible, but these things happen.

I've gotten to know at least two chief engineers and many assistant engineers
in the Chicago TV market. I've seen a lot of problems over the last 3 years, and some have made me say to myself, "how in the world could that have been allowed to happen"? But when I inquire politely and hear a horror story from hell,
it makes sense. And I have heard some incredible stories. In our market, the CBS station this weekend aired the HD signal, for a time, on the analog side, their bread and butter. Which means that scores, stats, and even the clock was cut off! This is market #3. Incompetence? Stupidity? No, it wasn't. It's easy to point fingers, I've done it in the past, and in my haste, I sadly admit, I can still do it, and I usually get burned when I do when the truth comes out. In fact, my post this weekend about their blog was a little harsh---I apologize to WCIA for that. That was not directed at the engineers, but it sounded bad the way that blog post came out.

You or I don't know what is going on behind the scenes, who is complaining, and what's really going on besides the people here complaining. In fact, all of this
slander---let's call a spade a spade here---will only keep you further from getting what you really desire...a nice, clean, high-powered HD signal from WCIA. Let's ask the chief what we can do to help, bite our tongues...and be happy you'll have a 1 mw blowtorch of a CBS affiliate soon. Would have, could have, should have is in the past and that cannot be changed; we can only help Chief fix things now. Here in the Chicago area, as it stands, we have never had---nor will we EVER have---CBS reliably beyond 10 miles of downtown Chicago without a monster antenna and hope for no lightning or atmospheric noise, and they're at "above full power" as allotted by the FCC. Your market is and will fare much better than ours with CBS for a long time. Make the most of it and try to help the Chief as much as you can, even if it's just a little.

What I hope to convince of you of is to say that nearly all of these problems WCIA is facing---from being late at full power---to the current problem with the transmitter exciter---are something that WCIA has had absolutely no control over. In fact, look at the posts above...when they went full power, most people couldn't get them...not just because of the Dish issue, but because of the multipath and overloading. This is not a single, easy issue to fix. Both sides of this equation will need fixing.
There also may be some other underlining issues with going full power and the current exciter issue with Thales. Feeding cable head ends further down the line towards Springfield may be part of it, with equipment giving unusual or unwatchable pictures. Not saying this is happening, but maybe staying on the cautious side is what they want to do for now. Since it's an important part of their delivery system.

Speaking of horror stories, when starting up a new high power transmitter. The FOX in Albuquerque had just gotten their new Thales DTV transmitter up and running, the Thales engineer was heading back home, and they had just gotten the transmitter up and running full bore just in time for the new season of 24. First night to showcase HD. In the middle of FOX primetime, bang, no signal. Drop dead, can't get anything to come back up. So the engineer heads up the mountain. Takes a full hour just to get to the site. So doing anything in HD for that night is dead in the water. Engineer tries to manually get the transmitter to come up. Nothing, no current be drawn at all by the main power tube. So finally the engineer thinks something’s got to be wrong with the main power tube, pulls apart the cabinet. Then gently tugs at the top of the tube to make sure it’s securely in its socket, but instead of just tugging at it gently. The whole top of the tube comes apart, pulls away from the socket end of the tube, that's still in its cavity... The main power tube had split in half, cracked at the ceramic seam. No vacuum no more in that baby.. So the engineer ended up calling the Thales engineer and caught him at one of his stop over’s, told him to come right back. The Thales engineer thought it was a joke, no joke.. Got a brand new $40k tube from the factory and got it back on a few days later.

The recommendation from that Albuquerque engineer, if you can, avoid Thales and especially avoid Thales transmitters at high altitude installs. The tubes never last as long, you go through them at nearly twice the rate as normal. Thales used to be pretty decent when they were Comark, though most of the more recent designs were from Comark with modifications for the newer efficient power tubes. However I will attest to the strange nature of their exciters, tweak tweak, any better now? No, not really, just another percentage point the other way.. Hmm.. Also, you gotta keep that puppy well ventilated. Once you figure out all those strange bugs, they seem to run most of the time.

I have to give it to WCIAchief! I think he has a big hairy set just to put a post on this thread. This considering the response he is getting. I would like to thank the WCIAchief for taking the time to respond. Also as a reminder, IT'S JUST TV! Don't get me wrong I like watch HDTV as much as the next guy but life does not stop when I have to watch Dish in SD. It's springtime in Illinois go out and enjoy the 5 minutes of good weather we are having.

What I hope to convince of you of is to say that nearly all of these problems WCIA is facing---from being late at full power---to the current problem with the transmitter exciter---are something that WCIA has had absolutely no control over. In fact, look at the posts above...when they went full power, most people couldn't get them...not just because of the Dish issue, but because of the multipath and overloading. This is not a single, easy issue to fix. Both sides of this equation will need fixing.

I am not saying that what they did was the best answer; but what you are doing is like blaming the weatherman because it rained. As I have stated multiple times, I am sure that locally everything didn't go perfectly well with decision-making. But when corporate headquarters says you stay at low power until early 2007, it is not WCIA's fault. When the exciter goes bad (note: it is affecting numerous stations, not WCIA), it is not WCIA's fault, and the engineer has identified the solution and is working on getting it fixed as soon as possible.

Finally, even with these unquestionable, substantiated facts that I in fact broke to this and several other boards almost a year ago with regards to the high power issue, I have absolutely no reason to question the soundness of local management on their decision to do what they did. Maybe it was a horrible decision, but it sure sounds like to me that it was the least worst-case scenario.
Furthermore, the timing was the worst possible, but these things happen.

I've gotten to know at least two chief engineers and many assistant engineers
in the Chicago TV market. I've seen a lot of problems over the last 3 years, and some have made me say to myself, "how in the world could that have been allowed to happen"? But when I inquire politely and hear a horror story from hell,
it makes sense. And I have heard some incredible stories. In our market, the CBS station this weekend aired the HD signal, for a time, on the analog side, their bread and butter. Which means that scores, stats, and even the clock was cut off! This is market #3. Incompetence? Stupidity? No, it wasn't. It's easy to point fingers, I've done it in the past, and in my haste, I sadly admit, I can still do it, and I usually get burned when I do when the truth comes out. In fact, my post this weekend about their blog was a little harsh---I apologize to WCIA for that. That was not directed at the engineers, but it sounded bad the way that blog post came out.

You or I don't know what is going on behind the scenes, who is complaining, and what's really going on besides the people here complaining. In fact, all of this
slander---let's call a spade a spade here---will only keep you further from getting what you really desire...a nice, clean, high-powered HD signal from WCIA. Let's ask the chief what we can do to help, bite our tongues...and be happy you'll have a 1 mw blowtorch of a CBS affiliate soon. Would have, could have, should have is in the past and that cannot be changed; we can only help Chief fix things now. Here in the Chicago area, as it stands, we have never had---nor will we EVER have---CBS reliably beyond 10 miles of downtown Chicago without a monster antenna and hope for no lightning or atmospheric noise, and they're at "above full power" as allotted by the FCC. Your market is and will fare much better than ours with CBS for a long time. Make the most of it and try to help the Chief as much as you can, even if it's just a little.

"when they went full power, most people couldn't get them"

"MOST PEOPLE COULDN'T GET THEM"

Gilbert --- Where did you come up with this?? Most people?? Over 50
%?? Are you making this up as you go along? Cut us some slack Gilbert.

Just curious Menger, are you a engineer or chief engineer locally? If so, I'm sure WCIA Chief might appreciate some positive suggestions to help WCIA's problem, instead of all this sarcasm & flaming you seem to offer on every post.

Just curious Menger, are you a engineer or chief engineer locally? If so, I'm sure WCIA Chief might appreciate some positive suggestions to help WCIA's problem, instead of all this sarcasm & flaming you seem to offer on every post.

Actually, Mr. Curious, I'm a garbage man. I serve an important role in people's lifes. I do my job competently. And most importantly, Mr. Curious, I know trash when I see it.

I don't mind cutting WCIA some slack when warranted. This issue really isn't affecting me personally as I can watch WMBD instead. However, throttling back to low power to satisfy the Dish Network subscribers (who can still get WCIA on the analog side) is just...well...astounding. Does this Dish subscriber base in Champaign exceed the number of OTA customers in such outlying places as Urbana, not to mention places like Decatur, Bloomington, Lincoln, Springfield, Clinton, Taylorville, other assorted small towns and villages amidst the above, and those like myself situated among the corn and bean fields of Central Illinois? Maybe there's some obscure FCC regulation that causes this to be the course of action. In the end, Nexstar corporate is the bad guy here for delaying installation as long as they did. Since Thales has known about this for some time (at least 3 weeks), why didn't they or the Nexstar chief engineer not bother to inform WCIA's engineer of the problem until now?

Cudos to the Chief for coming online to keep us informed.

I'm a garbage man.
I apologize for not realizing your qualifications.

In the end, Nexstar corporate is the bad guy here for delaying installation as long as they did.
Nexstar has done nothing but run WCIA down since they took over ownership from the Augie Meyer family. They always used to get all the cutting edge technology first, and now they're last. Their news department used to be heads & tails over the others, but with cuts to their budget, WCIA lost all of their good news people like Jerry Slabe & Marta, and now their news ratings are below WICS. I feel bad for the oldtimers left (which there aren't many) who have had to suffer with this ownership. WCIA used to be able to hang their hat on U of I sports but with the Big Ten network taking over, WCIA will be just a shell of what it used to be. But hey it could be worse...they could be owned by Sinclair.

Sure all of the local stations have had problems going on the air with their digital signals. The thing that makes this so frustrating is the fact that when the others were going through all of the problems, there were very few HDTV sets out there. Very few people noticed and besides, it was all "cutting edge." Now, digital sets and HDTV is more common, and WCIA is still trying to get it right, and doing it very publicly, to their own embarrassment. They should have kept the PR machine in full throttle and let everyone know on their own airwaves and on their website the problems they are having and apologize along the way. It's been the typical WCIA arrogance that has kept them from that. Nextar has nothing to do with that. Arrogance was a way of life under Midwest.

One correction to a previous statement that under Augie Meyer, they were always cutting edge. That isn't so. WCIA was also the last commercial station to go stereo.

It also appears that Sinclair saw the value of digital and HDTV several years ago. They've been full powered for at least a couple of years. It also appears they're winning the ratings race as well. WCIA wouldn't know that since they don't subscribe to the ratings. Along with buying equipment for digital TV and HDTV, ratings reports are expensive too.

Just curious Menger, are you a engineer or chief engineer locally? If so, I'm sure WCIA Chief might appreciate some positive suggestions to help WCIA's problem, instead of all this sarcasm & flaming you seem to offer on every post.

I agree

I used tom live in south first manner about 28 years ago, and this was when cable was not out there yet. i went through so much hassel with getting a decant signal to my vcr that i moved just to get cable. With the clear picture on 90.4 of insight, i haven't regretted my decision to stay with cable,

It also appears that Sinclair saw the value of digital and HDTV several years ago. They've been full powered for at least a couple of years. It also appears they're winning the ratings race as well. WCIA wouldn't know that since they don't subscribe to the ratings. Along with buying equipment for digital TV and HDTV, ratings reports are expensive too.

Sinclair might have a stronger over the air signal, but they do have their money woes (causing lots of turnover in upper management), and their relations with networks dropping them (over the past few years they have lost lots of their NBC & FOX affiliations around the county) & cable (remember all those weeks recently that they were off Mediacom throughout the country.) When their tower was damaged in November from ice, it took them forever to get that repaired, and the signal never has returned to it's previous strength here in Decatur. That's a company hanging on by a thread.
Also, I realize that WCIA was the last to bring stereo into the market, but I think what caused that was #1 The Meyer family getting ready to sell the station and not wanting to incur anymore expense and #2. CBS programming back then broadcast very few stereo shows compared to the other networks, thus creating no urgency. Until this past fall CBS was also behind all the big 4 networks with HD programming as well.

Jaywalk, The Street and and Market Edge all give Sinclair a Buy rating

This means nothing. You can go on the net and find brokers who give them a neutral. Plus check out their 1.41 billion dollar debt they have (according to Capitol IQ). And most station's stock should have gone up the past year anyway because of all the political advertising. I just know alot of inside people at Channel 20 and they say since Sinclair bought the station, things are worse than ever because they cut corners, and not for the good.
And now back to our HD discussion......lol

I don't think it's me, but has any-one noticed that WICS-DT always shuts off the HD before a show is actually over? Of all the HD channels I get OTA, and it is pretty much all of them, they are the only one that does that. Are they ever going to 5.1 sound instead of stereo as well? I am just curious. :rolleyes:

I don't think it's me, but has any-one noticed that WICS-DT always shuts off the HD before a show is actually over? Of all the HD channels I get OTA, and it is pretty much all of them, they are the only one that does that. Are they ever going to 5.1 sound instead of stereo as well? I am just curious. :rolleyes:

I haven't noticed that happening. I'll make it a point to watch for it tonight and let you know.

I don't think it's me, but has any-one noticed that WICS-DT always shuts off the HD before a show is actually over? Of all the HD channels I get OTA, and it is pretty much all of them, they are the only one that does that. Are they ever going to 5.1 sound instead of stereo as well? I am just curious. :rolleyes:

ABC will Pillar box their Credits Alot, Most of that is network, However During the 9-10 hour its Due to the passing of control from Master control, to the Production control room which is not set up for HD. Its part of the pre show prep for the 10 o'clock news, Should only happen about a min or so before 10. As for the 5.1, I know its on the list. I have been asking for it myself for sometime, but maintenance, and other projects keep getting in the way, And the Dolby equipment is kinda screwy. Last time it was tried the sync was off, channels reversed, and various other problems. It was decided that in the mean time, Good stereo was better then Bad surround.

Dr.

Sure all of the local stations have had problems going on the air with their digital signals. The thing that makes this so frustrating is the fact that when the others were going through all of the problems, there were very few HDTV sets out there. Very few people noticed and besides, it was all "cutting edge." Now, digital sets and HDTV is more common, and WCIA is still trying to get it right, and doing it very publicly, to their own embarrassment.
Not to defend anyone or sound like I'm taking sides in this discussion, but let me share with you a little of what's going on here in Houston (DMA #10), not that anyone cares, but you might be surprised at the similarities.

We've had HD network locals for several years now (over 5) but only within the last few weeks have any of our locals attempted to do any local origination in HD, specifically the news broadcasts. Trust me, first attempts look very amateurish, fraught with technical set problems and color hue problems and that's just one station so far, CBS. I can hardle wait for March 26th when our local NBC affiliate will also begin 'local origination". The ABC affiliate in town has so far remained mum on the subject.

And it doesn't end there. We also have problems with the local CBS affiliate causing problems with certain recent model DirecTV receivers. Specifically the D* model H20. Does any of this sound familiar or ring any bells with anyone? Of course no one's taken such a drastic step as to cut transmitter power. I have to admit that one is a bit far-fetched.

I watched "the Unit" Last night on WCIA DT over insight (not off air) and i noticed that the audio seemed a bit over modulated. I had to turn down my reciever to a much lower level then most other channels (10 pts) and it seemed slightly distorted. Not sure if its a cable thing, CBS thing, Or a WCIA thing, but i was wondering if anyone else noticed it too.

Dr.

I have also noticed that WICS cuts off the HD right before the end of their 9pm show. It's insulting to my eyes. LOL. Why do they need to get ready for the news? Why can't they just throw a switch to gain local control like they do for weather bulletins, etc.? 23 sometimes starts their shows in 4:3 and then a few seconds in will go to 16:9. Someone alluded above that maybe HD wasn't ready for primetime. Sadly, I think that may the case.

It sure seems that a tv manager joined when I dropped the flashing logo buzzing video and no weather alert brown trout. I merely got tired of seeing the poor kid in parochial school getting all the heat while the rich ones ran amuck. It also seem that there are some owners of high end a/v stores here…they desperately want 1080i sources to differentiate their premium priced gear from the sam’s gear.

In reality, being the first tv station with a weather warning up, first with breaking news or the most stories (wave the camera) means little to most connected viewers. Sweeps numbers can be manipulated to give the desired result. For example, if one station has late starting newscasts, they are not included. If they were to have many weekend shows shortened or nixed, the numbers aren’t included. If another competitor had many lower rated shows, they could simply total the viewers of each show up and blow the horn.
According to consumer reports, most people see little difference between 720/1080. The sam’s stuff is just as good as stuff priced four times higher.

Perhaps others have poured money and credit cards into hd only to see it not be perfect…and now regret their wasting of money and credit…living in an apartment and whining about hd problems. If anyone got into debt to buy this stuff, you need to take a basic personal finance course. There was an excellent psa in an NFL game last fall, where an older person living in an apartment was remembering his younger days of charging up high end audio gear…and he still has that ancient, barely operable gear because his bad credit won’t allow a home purchase. I think it got pulled real quick because of the credit card sponsors.

The WCIA stereo issue was years ago, long before they were considering the sale of the station. Sinclair Group stock was $7.32 per share one year ago. Today it is over $15 per share. Jaywalk, The Street and and Market Edge all give Sinclair a Buy rating. This quote is from Reuters:

"SBGI is one of the more profitable companies in the Broadcasting & Cable TV industry. It's gross and operating margins are among the strongest of any peer while their net margin is above the industry average."

It is always helpful Mr Curious to base opinion on at least some fact.

Is it possible that your opinion of Sinclair is based on their conservative ownership and their willingness to broadcast their conservative editorial opinion? You performance opinion obviously has no basis in fact.

WCIA needs all the help it can get right now. Even useful idiots.

If I had bought it at 28 in 1998, I’d be po’d
:D

What you fail to mention is that the stock split 2for 1 at that level. So if you had owned the stock at that point you would be considerably ahead considering the increase in price and their consistent dividend payouts.

So many geniuses, so little time.

Menger, I for one have become tired and sadden by your choice to demean everyone, who might have a different viewpoint than yours, with little insults,jabs and quips in your posts.

I see you just joined last month. If you want to continue being an active, contributing member here, maybe you should tone it down a notch or ten. :rolleyes:

Is it possible that your opinion of Sinclair is based on their conservative ownership and their willingness to broadcast their conservative editorial opinion?


Like I mentioned before, my opinion comes strictly from the horse's mouth, current employees of WICS!! As for their editorial opinion, I don't watch their news being that I live in Decatur (although I don't watch much Decatur news either) Currently watching alot of the new Chiller network that started on Directv last month. Nothing like a good monster flick,Twin Peaks, or Tales from the Crypt episode.

What you fail to mention is that the stock split 2for 1 at that level. So if you had owned the stock at that point you would be considerably ahead considering the increase in price and their consistent dividend payouts.

So many geniuses, so little time.

and the pos stock is as volatile as naptha as well

Menger, I for one have become tired and sadden by your choice to demean everyone, who might have a different viewpoint than yours, with little insults,jabs and quips in your posts.

I see you just joined last month. If you want to continue being an active, contributing member here, maybe you should tone it down a notch or ten. :rolleyes:

I regret that you are tired and "sadden". I am also quite surprised that my opinion has such a profound effect on you.

I have not violated any rules of this forum including threatening anyone as you have me. Please feel free to put me on your ignore list, as I will you.

Like I mentioned before, my opinion comes strictly from the horse's mouth, current employees of WICS!! As for their editorial opinion, I don't watch their news being that I live in Decatur (although I don't watch much Decatur news either) Currently watching alot of the new Chiller network that started on Directv last month. Nothing like a good monster flick,Twin Peaks, or Tales from the Crypt episode.

I also have Directv and was unaware of the Chiller network. My wife and I both are great fans of Twin Peaks. I appreciate the information.

I don't think it's me, but has any-one noticed that WICS-DT always shuts off the HD before a show is actually over? Of all the HD channels I get OTA, and it is pretty much all of them, they are the only one that does that. Are they ever going to 5.1 sound instead of stereo as well? I am just curious. :rolleyes:


I had exactly the same result including the lack of 5.1. Wow, this might give me another channel to complain about!!!

I'm so excited!

I also have Directv and was unaware of the Chiller network. My wife and I both are great fans of Twin Peaks. I appreciate the information.
The 2nd season of Twin Peaks finally comes out on Dvd April 3rd according to agent Cooper.

Mel, I am back up and running here. It has been a long month and a half since you asked me about this. I have not had a lot of time to check but I did just notice that I am not getting Peoria CBS on 103.4 and I am getting WCIA on 47.2 which was PBS. Let me know what you have found out since we last talked.
Chief - I figured you've been busy, what with your retirement and all. Anyway, Mediacon changed all of their QAM channels and it seems like it happened right after I posted the info last time. Call me paranoid but there may be Mediacon spies watching this thread. So I decided to PM you with the information. Hope you don't mind.

Mel

They just cranked it up again. My meter is smokin. Can't really tell if it is half or full power, but it is crankin.

I'm getting the same dB signal as before the throttling back so I'm guessing they're at 500,000 watts again. Otherwise the extra 500,000 isn't having much affect on the signal strength where I live.

I'm getting the same dB signal as before the throttling back so I'm guessing they're at 500,000 watts again. Otherwise the extra 500,000 isn't having much affect on the signal strength where I live.

I think it's half power strength here also.

I hope nobody complains about their six year old first generation cheeseoide receiver getting overloaded or it might be back to 1500 watts for good.

Some off-topic/political/personal attack posts were deleted - but there are far too many for me to get them all. Please keep this thread civil and on-topic from here on out.

Somebody PM me if this continues and we'll take stronger action.

Sure all of the local stations have had problems going on the air with their digital signals. The thing that makes this so frustrating is the fact that when the others were going through all of the problems, there were very few HDTV sets out there. Very few people noticed and besides, it was all "cutting edge." Now, digital sets and HDTV is more common, and WCIA is still trying to get it right, and doing it very publicly, to their own embarrassment. They should have kept the PR machine in full throttle and let everyone know on their own airwaves and on their website the problems they are having and apologize along the way. It's been the typical WCIA arrogance that has kept them from that. Nextar has nothing to do with that. Arrogance was a way of life under Midwest.

One correction to a previous statement that under Augie Meyer, they were always cutting edge. That isn't so. WCIA was also the last commercial station to go stereo.

It also appears that Sinclair saw the value of digital and HDTV several years ago. They've been full powered for at least a couple of years. It also appears they're winning the ratings race as well. WCIA wouldn't know that since they don't subscribe to the ratings. Along with buying equipment for digital TV and HDTV, ratings reports are expensive too.

I would like to see all the OTA broadcasters in the area succeed. It is to our benefit for them to do so. OTA HD is, in my opinion, still by far the best looking HD picture. HD signals that have been degraded by cable are obviously inferior to the OTA signal.

OTA HD is, in my opinion, still by far the best looking HD picture. HD signals that have been degraded by cable are obviously inferior to the OTA signal.

I'm going to disagree with this statement slightly. I know you're probably limiting yourself to cable/satellite/broadcast/downloadable HD content, in which case you are correct, but even broadcast HD is plagued by compression and motion artifacts. I see it all the time on sports broadcasts.

That's one of the aspects of HD discs (HD-DVD and Blu-Ray) that is so incredible -- no artifacts, assuming the disc has been encoded properly.

Explosions and fire are extremely prone to macroblocking. I have yet to see an OTA HD broadcast on any channel that eliminates it entirely. HD-DVD and Blu-Ray do just that.

(you probably didn't intend to include HD-DVD/BR in the comparison, but I like to pick nits...)

OTA HD is almost always better than satellite (no experience with cable HD) but it is unfortunately far from flawless.

I would like to see all the OTA broadcasters in the area succeed. It is to our benefit for them to do so. OTA HD is, in my opinion, still by far the best looking HD picture. HD signals that have been degraded by cable are obviously inferior to the OTA signal.

I also have to disagree. I've study long and hard comparing OTA signals with the new MEG-4 from D** both live and recorded on my HR-20.

The HR-20 MEG-4 broadcasts are better. Not by much, but better.

On another note.........does anyone else with a D** HR-20 have problems getting 3-2 & 17-2 to scan into it? I've tried dozens of rescans to no avail.

They'll scan into my H-20's and into my TV's digital tuners, but not the HR-20.

I'm getting the same dB signal as before the throttling back so I'm guessing they're at 500,000 watts again. Otherwise the extra 500,000 isn't having much affect on the signal strength where I live.

I just checked this morning. Don't know if they turned it back to low power, but I'm not getting a watchable signal here in Spfld. Didn't check last night, but it is no different from what it has been the last few days now.

I just checked this morning. Don't know if they turned it back to low power, but I'm not getting a watchable signal here in Spfld. Didn't check last night, but it is no different from what it has been the last few days now.

Oh, they definitely revved it up again last night. My signal strength bar went from a constant 30-35 to 90+ and has remained there.

Someone not too long ago asked for a map of the local stations.

Here is a great site for finding their locations.

HDTV Magazine (http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/programming/broadcast.php)

On another note.........does anyone else with a D** HR-20 have problems getting 3-2 & 17-2 to scan into it? I've tried dozens of rescans to no avail.

They'll scan into my H-20's and into my TV's digital tuners, but not the HR-20.

I have a buddy who can't get 17.2 in either. You might go to directv's forum and ask if there is any software help for it. I just scanned that forum and it appears that the HR-20's have lots of flaws to be worked out yet. I myself had a H-20 for a short time that I returned because it would reboot itself occasionally. (they ended up giving me a HR-10.) Other than that annoying flaw, it appeared to have a better HD picture, and I noticed it pulled in my OTA channels better.

It is my understanding that each channel has to contact Tribune Media Services to update their list of what they are broadcasting. Until they do we will not get 3-2 or 17-2 on the HR-20 as it does not scan for channels it only pulls what the TMS has on file.

I'm going to disagree with this statement slightly. I know you're probably limiting yourself to cable/satellite/broadcast/downloadable HD content, in which case you are correct, but even broadcast HD is plagued by compression and motion artifacts. I see it all the time on sports broadcasts.

That's one of the aspects of HD discs (HD-DVD and Blu-Ray) that is so incredible -- no artifacts, assuming the disc has been encoded properly.

Explosions and fire are extremely prone to macroblocking. I have yet to see an OTA HD broadcast on any channel that eliminates it entirely. HD-DVD and Blu-Ray do just that.

(you probably didn't intend to include HD-DVD/BR in the comparison, but I like to pick nits...)

OTA HD is almost always better than satellite (no experience with cable HD) but it is unfortunately far from flawless.

I agree

I'm going to disagree with this statement slightly. I know you're probably limiting yourself to cable/satellite/broadcast/downloadable HD content, in which case you are correct, but even broadcast HD is plagued by compression and motion artifacts. I see it all the time on sports broadcasts.

That's one of the aspects of HD discs (HD-DVD and Blu-Ray) that is so incredible -- no artifacts, assuming the disc has been encoded properly.

Explosions and fire are extremely prone to macroblocking. I have yet to see an OTA HD broadcast on any channel that eliminates it entirely. HD-DVD and Blu-Ray do just that.

That is an unfair comparison, because ATSC broadcasts have limited bandwidth compared to Blu-Ray and HD-DVD.

Video compression of digital sources is all about displaying changes in detail from one frame to the rest. Still pictures have low bandwidth requirements, because not much changes from one frame to the next. Moving pictures like explosions are a challenge for every bit of bandwidth available because of all the motion and changes in detail.

ATSC television broadcasts are limited to 19.39 megabits of data per second, and that includes audio. Taking into consideration audio data and other overhead, maximum video data is probably about 14-15 Mbit/s. Regular DVD has a cap of 9.8 megabits per second of video, as allowed by the DVD standard. HD-DVD is capable of 29.4 Mbit/s, and Blu-Ray is the champ with 40 Mbit/s.

Considering that HD-DVD has at least 50% more video bandwidth, and Blu-Ray more than double the video bandwidth, you will obviously see a better picture with either of the new HD disc standards. HDTV is limited in bandwidth so that the signal can carry a far enough distance for reliable reception.

It is my understanding that each channel has to contact Tribune Media Services to update their list of what they are broadcasting. Until they do we will not get 3-2 or 17-2 on the HR-20 as it does not scan for channels it only pulls what the TMS has on file.

You would think since they set the programming for the HR-10 and the H-20 (which does include 3.2 & 17.2), they would use the same list for the HR-20.

The HR10-250 actually scans for channels so it picks them up the HR-20 does not scan for channels.

OK Chief Engineers, here's one for you.
Why is it, that when it's windy, your ota signal has a tendency to break up and fluctuate wildly? (Before you ask, yes I have an indoor powered antenna.) Haven't had the chance to see if WCIA's does it yet, but ABC, FOX, CW, & NBC all have given me this problem in the past....and this is with the signal reading in the 90's prior to the wind. Is it because the wind is creating some small movement at the top of your towers, or is it atmospheric?

Here is what they say over at DBSTALK:

The issue most subs are having is there are some channels missing, mostly sub channels. The HR20 does not scan for channels but instead relies on data from Tribune Media Services. I get 90 to 100% on all but two stations, they are 50 to 60%, same or better than my sets ATSC tuners

Link:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=81683&highlight=sub+channels+missing

The HR10-250 actually scans for channels so it picks them up the HR-20 does not scan for channels.
Fee,
Just checked the latest HR20 user guide from directv, and they now show instructions for scanning off-air channels (pg. 78) so maybe they have gotten wise and are changing things. Also after reading your post, I went to that link you had, and it appears that there are some who are getting the sub channels, but they have gotten the latest downloads. From what I've read, you can get by with an HR10 unless you want to get locals in HD from Directv. (first they have to get the satellite up in the air which is still scheduled to happen sometime yet this year). The new bird will be sending down mpeg 4 signals which won't work with older recorders.

I just checked this morning. Don't know if they turned it back to low power, but I'm not getting a watchable signal here in Spfld. Didn't check last night, but it is no different from what it has been the last few days now.

You are correct. They're back to 1500 watts.

OK Chief Engineers, here's one for you.
Why is it, that when it's windy, your ota signal has a tendency to break up and fluctuate wildly? (Before you ask, yes I have an indoor powered antenna.) Haven't had the chance to see if WCIA's does it yet, but ABC, FOX, CW, & NBC all have given me this problem in the past....and this is with the signal reading in the 90's prior to the wind. Is it because the wind is creating some small movement at the top of your towers, or is it atmospheric?

If the tower is not securely anchored (and I mean rock solid tight) then the wind probably is indeed making the tower flex a bit. With ATSC digital reception, both the transmitter and receiver depend on being absolutely still for a solid picture. Digital signal means all those data packets have to arrive in a timely manner in the correct order, and anything out of order because the antenna is moving means the picture will not be decoded correctly.

So wind probably makes the antenna flex a bit, and the movement of the antenna disrupts the proper arrival of the signal to your antenna. A side affect of this stationary antenna requirement is that there will be no capability of digital TV reception in a moving vehicle - no DTV viewing in the back seat of limos or private cars while they are moving.

Dish is about to release a software upgrade for the 622 DVR that played poorly with WCIA's new transmitter. Early reports suggest Dish may have addressed the overload/multipath problem with the new software, though not enough people have received the update to conclusively verify a fix. I signed up to beta test the new software and it should download to my 622 overnight.


I hope it works so we can all be happy.

Oh, they definitely revved it up again last night. My signal strength bar went from a constant 30-35 to 90+ and has remained there.

Fee,
Just checked the latest HR20 user guide from directv, and they now show instructions for scanning off-air channels (pg. 78) so maybe they have gotten wise and are changing things. Also after reading your post, I went to that link you had, and it appears that there are some who are getting the sub channels, but they have gotten the latest downloads. From what I've read, you can get by with an HR10 unless you want to get locals in HD from Directv. (first they have to get the satellite up in the air which is still scheduled to happen sometime yet this year). The new bird will be sending down mpeg 4 signals which won't work with older recorders.

I checked the On-line guide and have found page 78 (Page 87 of 103 (http://www.directv.com/see/pdf/060508HR20UserGuidev1_0b.pdf) ) and then checked my HR20-700 and it does not have the "Scan for channels" option.

The Thales exciter is still incompatible with the Dish 622 with the current 622 software. However WCIA's HD picture is startling sharp on a 24" iMac screen, my highest resolution display device by far.

Signal here on 3.1 tonight is 88% in Champaign. Last time I checked it was only around 73%, so there's definitely an increase in power output. If only it was Illinois playing Kansas tonight. Still gotta root for SIU though, only down 3 at halftime! :)

I'm bouncing between 95-98% in Mahomet. Last week it was only around 89%.

WCIA is locked in between 65 and 70% here in Paxton tonight. This is the first time I have been able to receive it without it breaking up and dropping completely. And also to let you know I do have the Dish 622. I hope this continues. Lets go SIU!

I also have to disagree. I've study long and hard comparing OTA signals with the new MEG-4 from D** both live and recorded on my HR-20.

The HR-20 MEG-4 broadcasts are better. Not by much, but better.
In my area MPEG4 from D* looks much worse compared to OTA. Our OTA is crystal clear. MPEG4 looks grainy and exhibits considerable macroblocking. D* tech support acknowledges "it could be better" but so far hasn't made any improvement.

In my area MPEG4 from D* looks much worse compared to OTA. Our OTA is crystal clear. MPEG4 looks grainy and exhibits considerable macroblocking. D* tech support acknowledges "it could be better" but so far hasn't made any improvement.

I've read other forums on here saying the same. All I can say is that, for me, the MEG-4 channels are crisper/sharper and brighter colors including white.

I checked the On-line guide and have found page 78 (Page 87 of 103 (http://www.directv.com/see/pdf/060508HR20UserGuidev1_0b.pdf) ) and then checked my HR20-700 and it does not have the "Scan for channels" option.
Have you written or contacted Directv about that discrepancy? Almost sounds like false advertising on their part if they are listing it in their manuals but not actually letting you do the scan. I know you probably have, but if you haven't, try a manual "daily call" with your system hooked up to a phone line lately and get the latest software update. Just a thought. Also, after reading reviews throughout the internet about this model, it really sounds like Directv doesn't have their act together on it. Lots of complaints. Check out the reviews on Circuit City's site. I think I'll hold on to my HR-10 for a while.

Have you written or contacted Directv about that discrepancy? Almost sounds like false advertising on their part if they are listing it in their manuals but not actually letting you do the scan. I know you probably have, but if you haven't, try a manual "daily call" with your system hooked up to a phone line lately and get the latest software update. Just a thought. Also, after reading reviews throughout the internet about this model, it really sounds like Directv doesn't have their act together on it. Lots of complaints. Check out the reviews on Circuit City's site. I think I'll hold on to my HR-10 for a while.

Software updates come from the satellite, not the phone line.
There are many features that are listed in the manual that are not functional yet. They just added some recently in an update. The HR-20 is getting better with every update and will be the flagship of the D** arsenal. They've made that commitment.

Don't you get some software updates for Tivo via phone lines? I remember having to plug in my phone line to get the latest 6.0? tivo version.

Don't you get some software updates for Tivo via phone lines? I remember having to plug in my phone line to get the latest 6.0? tivo version.


The HR10-250 (old Mpeg-2 unit) does it that way. Not the new HR-20.

It appears that the L401 software update for the Dish 622 fixes the overload/multipath problem for viewers near the WCIA tower. WCIA now pegs my 622's meter at 100/100--they may have gone to 100% power. I had it on for about 10 minutes this morning with no dropouts or signal loss. I don't think L401 will be generally distributed for a couple of weeks, but Dish can force the upgrade to a specific receiver if you can get to the right level of tech support.

It appears that the L401 software update for the Dish 622 fixes the overload/multipath problem for viewers near the WCIA tower. WCIA now pegs my 622's meter at 100/100--they may have gone to 100% power. I had it on for about 10 minutes this morning with no dropouts or signal loss. I don't think L401 will be generally distributed for a couple of weeks, but Dish can force the upgrade to a specific receiver if you can get to the right level of tech support.


You may be right mraub. My D** meters are showing 100% for the first time this morning.

It is my understanding that each channel has to contact Tribune Media Services to update their list of what they are broadcasting. Until they do we will not get 3-2 or 17-2 on the HR-20 as it does not scan for channels it only pulls what the TMS has on file.

It's even worse for us over here in Springpatch - we CAN'T get 49.2 on those HR20's, which is the CBS-HD signal for us...

It's even worse for us over here in Springpatch - we CAN'T get 49.2 on those HR20's, which is the CBS-HD signal for us...Crap. I'll be getting an HR20 in a couple of weeks. The wife won't like that... :(

WCIAchief, any chance you could pass this info along to the right person at WCIA so the guide can be updated? Otherwise, those of us with HR20s won't be watching / recording CBS in Springfield.

Thanks!

If the tower is not securely anchored (and I mean rock solid tight) then the wind probably is indeed making the tower flex a bit. With ATSC digital reception, both the transmitter and receiver depend on being absolutely still for a solid picture. Digital signal means all those data packets have to arrive in a timely manner in the correct order, and anything out of order because the antenna is moving means the picture will not be decoded correctly.

So wind probably makes the antenna flex a bit, and the movement of the antenna disrupts the proper arrival of the signal to your antenna. A side affect of this stationary antenna requirement is that there will be no capability of digital TV reception in a moving vehicle - no DTV viewing in the back seat of limos or private cars while they are moving.

Oh boy! What a hoot! Shades of Dermot!

Ordinary terrestrial digital TV seems to work modestly OK in cars so long as there is enough signal and passing traffic does not cause dropouts. However, those are tall orders unless you are relatively close to the transmitter. The original terrestrial DTV systems (i.e. US and European) were not designed for mobile use specifically. However, given enough power, they work. The European system has various "modes" and originally it was thought that some would work for mobile, despite not being specifically for it. It's true that one does sort of work even with ordinary power and modest dropouts, but it is so abysmally inefficient that it is, and will forever remain, unused and unuseable. The Japanese DTV system has suitable modes specifically for mobile, and the Europeans have designed a new one that seems to work OK, given enough power. With adequate interleaving, which the new systems have and the old ones don't, its fairly easy if the vehicle and surrounding traffic keeps moving. But if all is still, even with diversity antennas, without gigantic power the tests keep getting dropouts. If you've ever experienced FM dropouts when stopped at a signal light, you will know what I mean.

As to fixed antennas moving with the wind, unless the antennas are loose on the tower, or the tower is near collapse, its a total non-issue. At my house I can handhold an antenna and shake it as hard and fast as possible, and there's no breakup. For my two strongest stations, it will work with a small fan in front of
the antenna. What general experience, both in the US and Europe, shows, is that being surrounded by a forest of wet trees in the wind is a real DTV killer.

As an aside, there is no way that tower motion can change packet order! They are
far too long. In fact, it can't even change symbol order.

Doug McDonald

This unit has received the most consistently abysmal reviews of any product of its' type. I unfortunately bought mine early on before many people had had experience with this product. If you don't already own one wait a few months. Direc is scrambling to introduce a replacement product that eliminates the operational and software glitches of the HR20. If you can't wait, check out ebay where they are selling for next to nothing. A partial list of the pleasant experiences I've had with mine:

1.) First two were DOA
2.) Will not record consistently at scheduled recording times.
3.) Unresponsive to commands (often).
4.) Audio and video way out of sync.
5.) HDMI port failed on one unit.
6.) Several resets every week.
7.) 90 day warranty (with good reason).
8.) Poor user interface.
9.) The list could go on and on.

Direc is aware of these and many more problems that are common with this unit and has tried numerous software upgrades with very limited success. Research before you buy. You'll be amazed at what you see. My experience with the unit is actually better than many of the reviews you will read.

Anyone else seeing the Butler-Florida game on WCIA in SD rather than HD?

Anyone else seeing the Butler-Florida game on WCIA in SD rather than HD?

Switching back and forth between SD and HD here.

Anyone else seeing the Butler-Florida game on WCIA in SD rather than HD?

Screen has gone black here several times.

. If you don't already own one wait a few months. Direc is scrambling to introduce a replacement product that eliminates the operational and software glitches of the HR20. If you can't wait, check out ebay where they are selling for next to nothing. A partial list of the pleasant experiences I've had with mine:

Direc is aware of these and many more problems that are common with this unit and has tried numerous software upgrades with very limited success. Research before you buy. You'll be amazed at what you see. My experience with the unit is actually better than many of the reviews you will read.


What a crock. That is total false information. Directv is stating loud and clear with their new SWM's, being beta tested right now, that the HR-20 will be the receiver for quite a while.

They are passing down software upgrades at an ever increasing rate.

The Ebay thing is total fabrication also. They are selling consistently on there in the $270-$300 range. About the same as what you'd pay at BB or CC.

What a crock. That is total false information. Directv is stating loud and clear with their new SWM's, being beta tested right now, that the HR-20 will be the receiver for quite a while.

They are passing down software upgrades at an ever increasing rate.

The Ebay thing is total fabrication also. They are selling consistently on there in the $270-$300 range. About the same as what you'd pay at BB or CC.

Wow, another emotional response. Are you OK?

As I said, check the reviews. Simply Google "HR20" review. That will tell anyone everything they need to know. You'll read horror story after horror story.

I regret provoking yet another troubling response from you Rick.

Wow, another emotional response. Are you OK?

As I said, check the reviews. Simply Google "HR20" review. That will tell anyone everything they need to know. You'll read horror story after horror story.

I regret provoking yet another troubling response from you Rick.


No emotion, dude. Just factual. You posted things that are out and out lies. And the only "troubling" thing is why you feel you must attack other posters when ever they disagree with you.

I've been on here for well over 4 years and never had a post deleted. You've been on here a month and have already had numerous ones axed. Figure it out. :rolleyes:

No emotion, dude. Just factual. You posted things that are out and out lies. And the only "troubling" thing is why you feel you must attack other posters when ever they disagree with you.

I've been on here for well over 4 years and never had a post deleted. You've been on here a month and have already had numerous ones axed. Figure it out. :rolleyes:

Wow, I thought this was about the HR20 "dude" (lol). As I said with the sprit of simply trying to save some people some serious money, "check the reviews". If you get this unit new you will pay around $299 and guess what? You won't even own it! You are paying for the privilege of being a beta tester and when Direc wants it back they get it. I'm paying for my mistake (not just the $299 but the monthly fee also for using a seriously flawed product). Not to mention the two year commitment.

Google "HR20 Review".

Item #180097491488 Buy it now for $79.99 or best offer lol

Item number: Item number:
290095417573 20 hours left at $40.00

Item number: 280096902454 New in box Starting bid $10


Item number: 160098039003 Starting $20 Buy it now $90

There are many more.

Not prudent and potentially libelous to accuse people of being liers.

As soon as I find the story about the HR20 replacement I will post it. At that point I'll consider what can be done about accusing people of being liers in public forums.

Item #180097491488 Buy it now for $79.99 or best offer lol

Item number: Item number:
290095417573 20 hours left at $40.00

Item number: 280096902454 New in box Starting bid $10


Item number: 160098039003 Starting $20 Buy it now $90

There are many more.

Not prudent and potentially libelous to accuse people of being liers.

As soon as I find the story about the HR20 replacement I will post it. At that point I'll consider what can be done about accusing people of being liers in public forums.

Dude, those are "H20"'s Big difference :confused:

Item #180097491488 Buy it now for $79.99 or best offer lol

Item number: Item number:
290095417573 20 hours left at $40.00

Item number: 280096902454 New in box Starting bid $10


Item number: 160098039003 Starting $20 Buy it now $90

There are many more.

Not prudent and potentially libelous to accuse people of being liers.

As soon as I find the story about the HR20 replacement I will post it. At that point I'll consider what can be done about accusing people of being liers in public forums.

I see that those you listed were all H20's which are not DVR's. Nice try.

You are really sending the meter into the red.
http://files.photojerk.com/Jerker/bsmeter3ab.gif


Listen, if you prefer E**. That's fine. I prefer D**. There are many on both sides of the fence. Just don't try to pass off BS info as fact.

Dude, those are "H20"'s Big difference :confused:

Sorry, that was my mis-read.

As to fixed antennas moving with the wind, unless the antennas are loose on the tower, or the tower is near collapse, its a total non-issue. At my house I can handhold an antenna and shake it as hard and fast as possible, and there's no breakup. For my two strongest stations, it will work with a small fan in front of
the antenna. What general experience, both in the US and Europe, shows, is that being surrounded by a forest of wet trees in the wind is a real DTV killer.

As an aside, there is no way that tower motion can change packet order! They are
far too long. In fact, it can't even change symbol order.

Doug McDonald
So why is it then Doug that when it's windy (25mph plus)all of the station's signals break up? And this is with signals that reach in the 90's with an indoor antenna.

Does anyone know what power they are at now? When they were at 50% the other day I was receiving a signal at 70% now I am getting nothing again.

So why is it then Doug that when it's windy (25mph plus)all of the station's signals break up? And this is with signals that reach in the 90's with an indoor antenna.

That's a good question. I take it you mean all your channels are breaking up,
not just weak ones.

The obvious reason is a bad connection at the antenna, or a loose
connection between bays if it is a multiple bowtie. No receiver can overcome the rapid signal loss that occurs when a connection rattles.

Trees even without leaves can cause it, but they have to be close to the antenna or very very numerous branches.

I am of course assuming you have a modern receiver. If you have a first or
second generation one like the original RCA/Thompson one or an early Panasonic, yes, any little flutter will result in disaster.

I'd like to hear exactly what you setup is. I have three boxes, a third
generation Samsung, a fourth generation Motorola, and the recent Accurian.
My antenna for channels 41, 42, 44, and 48 is indoors and points out a window
through a very large and very fluttery tree. My reception is completely unbothered by the highest winds, with any of the three receivers on any working channel
(by non-working I mean 42 when it is at low signal level, at which time it is swamped by 41.)

Doug McDonald

I have 2 directv hr10's, using indoor terk bowties, no trees within 100 feet. My sat signals don't break up, just my ota, and this is usually with gusts over 25 mph.

I'm at a second residence in SW FL beween Sarasota and Ft. Myers. Egads, HD sucks on Comcast down here. I can only get ABC, Fox, CBS, and CW HD in the clear with my QAM tuner. The CW is at 480i LOL. Fox is at 720p but unwatchable because it freezes for long periods of time. The ABC and CBS feeds are halfway decent yet there are freeze/skips every so often. All the stations have transmitters about 35 miles away. Tampa stations are 50+ miles distant. If I lived here for more months, I'd likely try putting up an OTA antenna again to try to get a better HD picture or try the Verizon FIOS service which is up and running here. I had an OTA antenna for 30 years , but took it down a couple of years ago because I got tired of replacing it nearly every year from wind damage. At any rate the HD OTA we receive in Central IL puts to shame anything I've seen on Comcast here.

Oops. It seems that Verizon hasn't started their TV service yet, just the FIOS high speed internet is available. So it would have to be OTA for better HD.

Is it possible that the WCIA might drown out other signals?

I had been reliably getting WAND from my powered indoor antenna (using a Directv H10 in SW Champaign) and WICD after some fiddling of the antenna. I could rarely get any WCIA.

Suddenly WCIA starts coming in at 95% (I've never gotten anywhere close to that before with any channel) and my reception of WAND pretty much disappears (it flutters between 0 and 5%) WICD is a little stronger but not watchable. If I switch to an old nonpowered antenna the signal actually gets better, but still not watchable. I came to this site and saw that WCIA increased their power. I can't figure out any other reason why the other channels suddenly have worse reception.

I am in Normal and have never got anything from WCIA. All of the sudden it is at 90% and perfect. Now if I could just get WICS a little higher.....50-55% now after the ice storm, before it was at 80%.

Is it possible that the WCIA might drown out other signals?

I had been reliably getting WAND from my powered indoor antenna (using a Directv H10 in SW Champaign) and WICD after some fiddling of the antenna. I could rarely get any WCIA.

Suddenly WCIA starts coming in at 95% (I've never gotten anywhere close to that before with any channel) and my reception of WAND pretty much disappears (it flutters between 0 and 5%) WICD is a little stronger but not watchable. If I switch to an old nonpowered antenna the signal actually gets better, but still not watchable. I came to this site and saw that WCIA increased their power. I can't figure out any other reason why the other channels suddenly have worse reception.


Simple little adjustable attenuator that you can get at RS has worked for me for years.

I think WCIA is now is at full power. It seems a bit stronger on my spectrum analyzer. This is not of course verified by the horse's mouth.

Doug McDonald

Something changed because I have a solid 98% none fluctuation signal in southeast Urbana. :)

I can turn my little indoor antenna just right, and occasionally get a solid feed here in Bloomington.

What's with the non-HD picture? I'm getting 5.1 sound, but programs are still in 4:3 picture ratio. Unless this survivor crap still isn't in HD - I might just be watching non-HD shows so far.

Here is what it says on their web site under About Us.

03/29/2007 01:58pm
WCIA-DT began transmitting at 100% licensed power (1MW ERP) March 23, 2007. The signal problems initally encountered by some Dish customers has been addressed by Dish with a 622 receiver software upgrade. To find out if your 622 receiver has been updated, check its software version number: Menu > System Setup > Installation > System Info. The newest version is L4.01 and appears to resolve the tiling problems encountered with our signal. If you do not have the upgrade, contact Dish Network.

Link. http://www.illinoishomepage.net/content/fulltext/?sid=8d201bb4f0267471f9c0ec61c023c659&cid=5044
Later, Phil B.

I can turn my little indoor antenna just right, and occasionally get a solid feed here in Bloomington.

What's with the non-HD picture? I'm getting 5.1 sound, but programs are still in 4:3 picture ratio. Unless this survivor crap still isn't in HD - I might just be watching non-HD shows so far.

Survivor is not HD, but CSI is. CSI was also being broadcast in SD last night.

Here is what it says on their web site under About Us.

03/29/2007 01:58pm
WCIA-DT began transmitting at 100% licensed power (1MW ERP) March 23, 2007. The signal problems initally encountered by some Dish customers has been addressed by Dish with a 622 receiver software upgrade. To find out if your 622 receiver has been updated, check its software version number: Menu > System Setup > Installation > System Info. The newest version is L4.01 and appears to resolve the tiling problems encountered with our signal. If you do not have the upgrade, contact Dish Network.

Link. http://www.illinoishomepage.net/content/fulltext/?sid=8d201bb4f0267471f9c0ec61c023c659&cid=5044
Later, Phil B.

Thanks, Phil. Dishrich...and those of you in Springfield....can you now get WCIA?

Thanks, Phil. Dishrich...and those of you in Springfield....can you now get WCIA?

Unfortunately, I'm seeing no improvement. If anything, the signal is worse. Can't even lock on. If others over here are getting a picture, I'll try getting up on the roof and re-adjusting the antenna. The funny thing is that I have been able to get an HD picture from time-to-time in the past, but nothing lately.

I am in Chatham and can't pick it up with my outdoor antenna.

I got WCIA in Sherman last night with a Silver Sensor in my attic. Signal strength was 71%. However, this morning it was gone (signal strength down to 10 - 15%). I'm assuming the atmospheric conditions were just right last night when I checked it.

Here is what it says on their web site under About Us.

03/29/2007 01:58pm
WCIA-DT began transmitting at 100% licensed power (1MW ERP) March 23, 2007. The signal problems initally encountered by some Dish customers has been addressed by Dish with a 622 receiver software upgrade. To find out if your 622 receiver has been updated, check its software version number: Menu > System Setup > Installation > System Info. The newest version is L4.01 and appears to resolve the tiling problems encountered with our signal. If you do not have the upgrade, contact Dish Network.


Later, Phil B.

Has anyone actually gotten the 4.01 software upgrade from Dish? I tried calling tonight (I have L366) and they said that they only do the upgrades in batches and didn't know when we would get the upgrade.

WCIA was really loud again on insight tonight. Not sure if its the cable feed, or if its like that OTA too. I cant pick them up on my antenna so i cant compare, but "Numbers" was almost double the volume of most other channels and slightly distorted, then when the news started at 10 it was so over modulated it was practically unwatchable. Has anyone else noticed this? I am watching it on insight in chatham, and both cable boxes show the same symptoms.

Dr.

BuffaloBill,
I was getting a "good" signal (around 60%) before they went full power, now that they are at full power I am seeing no improvement at all.. same as it was!? I'm only 17 miles from their tower (Foosland) & have a large (TERK TV-38) antenna at about 25FT up on a tower w/a rotor & I'm getting most of the other stations signals just as good or better. I'm going to be moving & adding another 12 foot section to the tower in a week or so, I'm thinking I'm getting some multi path or some interference from the antenna being just a little over a foot or two over the roof & near a LARGE tree?

Dr_EluSivE,
I'm getting WCIA OTA & I'm hearing the same thing.. the news comes on & kills your ears.. it pops & cracks?! They also need to put the center channel into use during the news. With all of the other stations WICD, WAND, WILL & The CW I have my receiver volume set at 35 to watch their programing, with WCIA, I have to turn it down to 20-25.

So far, I'm not that impressed w/their HD & Audio. Channel 12.1 HD is far better looking & sounding I think.
Later, Phil B.

WCIA was really loud again on insight tonight. Not sure if its the cable feed, or if its like that OTA too. I cant pick them up on my antenna so i cant compare, but "Numbers" was almost double the volume of most other channels and slightly distorted, then when the news started at 10 it was so over modulated it was practically unwatchable. Has anyone else noticed this? I am watching it on insight in chatham, and both cable boxes show the same symptoms.

Dr.
You sometimes have to wonder, is anyone at the station monitoring the OTA signal? Apparently not and the problem it seems is rampant throughout the nation. Even here in Texas, where the locals have been broadcasting in HD for several years, their audio is literally all over the map.

The difference between audio levels going from analog to digital seems to vary somewhat dependent upon what you're using for a set top box or tuner. In all cases though, the digital audio (here at least) is noticeably much lower. Obviously some STBs do much better at this than others. However, the occasionally large differences in audio levels switching from one channel to the next, even between multiple locals within the same city, or going from network programming to local programming (usually blasting) just stupefies the mind. Are there no standards for audio level setting? Apparently not.

i just checked insight, audio ok thru tv, good thur 6.1 stereo. [cmi] very few small and mid size station owners pay people to 'monitor' signals. the live shot, the uplink, the sports feed all take priority. sometimes, the MCO is seen as the fix it person as well...i've been playing 'free' games and watching 'free' videos all day and now my work computer is jacked up. can you fix it in 5 minutes? oh, by the way it looks like the 'free' stuff i allowed into the network has FUBAR'd your automation and WX alarm computers as well...

in other operations, 'hubbing' is the buzz word, where 4 or so different stations are controlled in one place, with video servers and automation lists. try driving, downloading ring tones, pda'n an email and changing the cd at the same time.

some one who played here has gone 'get a life'...

i am certain that there is at least one high end av dealers pitchen $hit, as well as one competitor...the problems with newschannel at nine got fixed fast.

Sorry to see that others are having problems with the WCIA signal in and around Springfield, but it saved me hauling out the ladder to check the antenna. Was able to lock on to a weak signal this afternoon although lots of breakups. Would be nice to get a solid signal in time for the games this evening, but I'm not counting on it.

WCIA was really loud again on insight tonight. Not sure if its the cable feed, or if its like that OTA too. I cant pick them up on my antenna so i cant compare, but "Numbers" was almost double the volume of most other channels and slightly distorted, then when the news started at 10 it was so over modulated it was practically unwatchable. Has anyone else noticed this? I am watching it on insight in chatham, and both cable boxes show the same symptoms.

Dr.

Yeah, I've noticed the ultra-loud audio with my OTA signal. The regular programs with 5.1 digital audio aren't as bad as others. The 5.1 light on my surround receiver is always lit up, so obviously all the other sound formats are being converted to 5.1 prior to retransmission. When this happens, the volume is way too loud and pre-amped to the point where it's distorted.

Maybe this is just a temporary thing, until WCIA gets all the bugs worked out. Some tweaking of the audio encoding should be an easy fix, but maybe not high priority right now.

I saw that WCIA has the 5.1 audio turned off tonight. My guess is that they've noticed the problems with the blaring loud audio, and are tweaking it a bit. In the meantime, the regular stereo sounds much better through the audio system than did the over-boosted Dolby Digital audio stream.

Here at the north end of Decatur, my powered indoor terk antenna gets about a peak signal of around 60. However it does break up from time to time, and when it is turned to get WCIA, I have problems getting WRSP & WICS then. Oh well, Directv is suppose to be offering our locals in HD by '08 (hopefully if you can believe their press releases).

Thanks, Phil. Dishrich...and those of you in Springfield....can you now get WCIA?

Nope, not a peep at my place, when I tried it the other day, but...

To BuffaloBill & others: why DOES it really matter if you can get WCIA-DT - you CAN get it easier on WCFN-DT2; not sure why it's a big deal that you can... :confused: :confused:

Insight Communications Company, Inc. and Comcast Corporation (CMCSA, CMCSK) today announced that they have reached a definitive agreement to divide the Insight Midwest partnership in which Insight and a Comcast subsidiary each hold a 50% interest. By dividing the partnership, which Comcast inherited with the AT&T Broadband acquisition, Comcast will be able to convert its interest in the joint venture from a passive investment to a direct ownership in cash-flow generating cable systems. For 2007, Comcast expects the new systems to generate approximately $290 million in Operating Cash Flow.

Upon completion of the transaction, Comcast will own 100% of the cable systems serving Illinois customers in Rockford/Dixon, Quincy/Macomb, Springfield and Champaign/Urbana, and Indiana customers in Bloomington, Anderson, and Lafayette/Kokomo.

http://money.excite.com/jsp/nw/nwdt_ge.jsp?news_id=cmt-092b6415&feed=cmt&date=20070402

Nope, not a peep at my place, when I tried it the other day, but...

To BuffaloBill & others: why DOES it really matter if you can get WCIA-DT - you CAN get it easier on WCFN-DT2; not sure why it's a big deal that you can... :confused: :confused:

The only WCFN-DT signal I get broadcasts MY-TV which is NOT CBS. Entirely different programming.

However, the good news is that I started getting a stronger and stable signal on WCIA-DT yesterday (up about 20 points), and it seems to be holding this morning. I am now keeping my fingers crossed, hoping that this is not just a temporary testing mode. Maybe I'll get to see tonight's game in HD after all.

The only WCFN-DT signal I get broadcasts MY-TV which is NOT CBS. Entirely different programming.

HUH??? If you can get WCFN-DT, then you ARE getting CBS-HD - just flip your TV to 49.2 & it's all there, like it has since day 1 of CBS-HD getting launched... :confused:
(& yes, I'm quite aware of the difference between MY-TV & CBS)
I assure you 49.2 IS CBS in true HD....

Or, are you using one of those D* HR20's, who's prog guide/tuner is NOT updated for 49.2? ;)

HUH??? If you can get WCFN-DT, then you ARE getting CBS-HD - just flip your TV to 49.2 & it's all there, like it has since day 1 of CBS-HD getting launched... :confused:
(& yes, I'm quite aware of the difference between MY-TV & CBS)
I assure you 49.2 IS CBS in true HD....

Or, are you using one of those D* HR20's, who's prog guide/tuner is NOT updated for 49.2? ;)

I can see why you are confused. See if this makes sense. Over here in Spfd we get a local WCFN analog station (MY-TV) which I never watch, and consequently never bothered to check for WCFN-DT. When I saw your earlier post this morning, I checked and was able to pick it up on 49-1. After just checking again, I noticed that it has the same signal strength as WCIA-DT on 49-2. My guess is that I have not been able to get WCFN-DT since Day 1 as you suggest, but only since WCIA-DT improved yesterday. In other words, over here we get either both or neither DT signals depending on the signal strength, but get WCFN-analog all the time.

I can see why you are confused. See if this makes sense. Over here in Spfd we get a local WCFN analog station (MY-TV) which I never watch, and consequently never bothered to check for WCFN-DT. When I saw your earlier post this morning, I checked and was able to pick it up on 49-1. After just checking again, I noticed that it has the same signal strength as WCIA-DT on 49-2. My guess is that I have not been able to get WCFN-DT since Day 1 as you suggest, but only since WCIA-DT improved yesterday. In other words, over here we get either both or neither DT signals depending on the signal strength, but get WCFN-analog all the time.

Sorry, but I think you're confused - I don't think you quite understand how WCIA & WCFN's digital signals work...

WCFN-DT 49.1 AND WCIA-DT 49.2 BOTH come out of the SAME x-mitter in Mechanicsburg. (hint, why do you think they BOTH have the same signal strenghth... ;) ) The digital signal of WCFN-DT is actually on DT 53, which your TV remaps to 49.1 AND 49.2. If you are having issues with 49.2, you WILL have issues with 49.1 just as well. What exactly kind of antenna are you using & where abouts are you around Springfield? Are you using a pre-amp?

The signal strength of 49.1 OR 49.2 has absolutely NOTHING, whatsoever to do with WCIA-DT on 3.1. However, WCFN-DT is NOT on full-power, either - so if your antenna is marginal, you WILL have signal issues, depending on your location. I've never had problems pulling in WCFN-DT, but I'm using a large UHF yagi outside w/a pre-amp, so it comes in pretty easy for me. Again, since I don't have issues pulling in WCFN-DT, it really is NOT an issue for me to try to pull in WCIA-DT all the way from Champaign. (unless just to say I can... :) )

If you really were getting WCIA-DT all the way from Champaign (Seymour), then your TV would be picking IT up on 3.1. If your TV is NOT pulling in 3.1, then you are NOT pulling in WCIA-DT 3.1, period. (which I suspect is what's happening in your case) WCIA-DT is actually on DT 48, which (if you were actually pulling it in) would be remapped to 3.1 on your TV. BTW, you would ALSO be seeing a 3.2, since WCIA-DT carries MT-TV (WCFN) on 3.2, to supply MT-TV for the Champaign side of our viewing area.

Bottom line: It's still easier to get a reliable signal in Spfld on WCFN-DT than WCIA-DT. (now outside of Spfld, it's another story) And, if you ARE getting WCFN-DT 49.2, then you ARE getting CBS-HD & you should just relax & enjoy it. WCFN-DT 49.2 & WCIA-DT 3.1 are EXACTLY the same, so it shouldn't matter. If not, then you need to do something with your antenna setup, but again, it's not that hard to pull in WCFN-DT.

Sorry, but I think you're confused - I don't think you quite understand how WCIA & WCFN's digital signals work...

WCFN-DT 49.1 AND WCIA-DT 49.2 BOTH come out of the SAME x-mitter in Mechanicsburg. (hint, why do you think they BOTH have the same signal strenghth... ;) ) The digital signal of WCFN-DT is actually on DT 53, which your TV remaps to 49.1 AND 49.2. If you are having issues with 49.2, you WILL have issues with 49.1 just as well. What exactly kind of antenna are you using & where abouts are you around Springfield? Are you using a pre-amp?

The signal strength of 49.1 OR 49.2 has absolutely NOTHING, whatsoever to do with WCIA-DT on 3.1. However, WCFN-DT is NOT on full-power, either - so if your antenna is marginal, you WILL have signal issues, depending on your location. I've never had problems pulling in WCFN-DT, but I'm using a large UHF yagi outside w/a pre-amp, so it comes in pretty easy for me. Again, since I don't have issues pulling in WCFN-DT, it really is NOT an issue for me to try to pull in WCIA-DT all the way from Champaign. (unless just to say I can... :) )

If you really were getting WCIA-DT all the way from Champaign (Seymour), then your TV would be picking IT up on 3.1. If your TV is NOT pulling in 3.1, then you are NOT pulling in WCIA-DT 3.1, period. (which I suspect is what's happening in your case) WCIA-DT is actually on DT 48, which (if you were actually pulling it in) would be remapped to 3.1 on your TV. BTW, you would ALSO be seeing a 3.2, since WCIA-DT carries MT-TV (WCFN) on 3.2, to supply MT-TV for the Champaign side of our viewing area.

Bottom line: It's still easier to get a reliable signal in Spfld on WCFN-DT than WCIA-DT. (now outside of Spfld, it's another story) And, if you ARE getting WCFN-DT 49.2, then you ARE getting CBS-HD & you should just relax & enjoy it. WCFN-DT 49.2 & WCIA-DT 3.1 are EXACTLY the same, so it shouldn't matter. If not, then you need to do something with your antenna setup, but again, it's not that hard to pull in WCFN-DT.


LOL! This is really becoming quite entertaining.

WCIA must have done some substantial tweaking, because with my indoor antenna I'm getting a solid signal with zero breakups during the Final Four game. The HD finally looks outstanding - like it should have been a year ago or longer.

My only complaint is that the game does have some interlacing artifacts, most obvious during the closeups. Since I have a 720p flat-panel (as do probably 99% of HD viewers) I wish 1080i had never been invented. For the life of me, I can't figure out a single reason why any broadcasters still use that junk format. It's a leftover relic of the days of interlaced CRT displays, and it needs to disappear.

WCIA must have done some substantial tweaking, because with my indoor antenna I'm getting a solid signal with zero breakups during the Final Four game. The HD finally looks outstanding - like it should have been a year ago or longer.

My only complaint is that the game does have some interlacing artifacts, most obvious during the closeups. Since I have a 720p flat-panel (as do probably 99% of HD viewers) I wish 1080i had never been invented. For the life of me, I can't figure out a single reason why any broadcasters still use that junk format. It's a leftover relic of the days of interlaced CRT displays, and it needs to disappear.

I too am getting a breath taking picture. I'm not seeing the artifacts. What equipment are you using? I'm watching on a Pro-Fhd1 50in.

I too am getting a breath taking picture. I'm not seeing the artifacts. What equipment are you using? I'm watching on a Pro-Fhd1 50in.

Westinghouse W3213 HD is the TV set, built in tuner. It's not artifacts that are on the screen so much as the motion of the players shows the limitations of the format. 30 FPS is nowhere near as smooth as it could be with 60 FPS that comes with 720p.

For those interested in WCIA signal range, I am pulling in a solid 82% from 9 miles SW of Taylorville. That's 69 miles from the transmitter. I have an old Radio Shack antenna on a 50' tower with a preamp. I am enjoying every minute of it since the analog signal was just barely watchable. BTW I also get a solid lock on 12, 14, 17, 20, 23, &55.

Westinghouse W3213 HD is the TV set, built in tuner. It's not artifacts that are on the screen so much as the motion of the players shows the limitations of the format. 30 FPS is nowhere near as smooth as it could be with 60 FPS that comes with 720p.

My son has a 32" Westinghouse that he purchased from Best Buy during their Friday after Thanksgiving sale (I don't know the model #). He is very happy with the set but has had the same comments about fast motion as you. He initially made the observation when he noticed that it was not an issue when watching my set. He thinks it is a characteristic of some LCD sets and not an issue with plasma or DLP sets.

My son has a 32" Westinghouse that he purchased from Best Buy during their Friday after Thanksgiving sale (I don't know the model #). He is very happy with the set but has had the same comments about fast motion as you. He initially made the observation when he noticed that it was not an issue when watching my set. He thinks it is a characteristic of some LCD sets and not an issue with plasma or DLP sets.


I saw plenty of artifacts on my brand new 42 Panasonic Plasma. Again, mostly in the close up fast motion scenes. Is this because of the way CBS shoots it, or some type of compression done along the line somewhere?

I saw plenty of artifacts on my brand new 42 Panasonic Plasma. Again, mostly in the close up fast motion scenes. Is this because of the way CBS shoots it, or some type of compression done along the line somewhere?


I watched the game OTA on 3.1 and saw a flawless picture. Receiving 3.1 92 to 96 signal strength OTA. No artifacts at all.

Anyone else seeing WAND HD OTA cutting out continually both audio and video during Law & Order SVU tonight? It's not a drop in signal according to my Dish 211.

HUH??? If you can get WCFN-DT, then you ARE getting CBS-HD - just flip your TV to 49.2 & it's all there, like it has since day 1 of CBS-HD getting launched... :confused:
(& yes, I'm quite aware of the difference between MY-TV & CBS)
I assure you 49.2 IS CBS in true HD....

Or, are you using one of those D* HR20's, who's prog guide/tuner is NOT updated for 49.2? ;)

I have an HR10-250 (original HD-TiVo) and there has been blank guide data on 49-2 forever for me. I don't believe this problem is specific to the HR20. I am assuming that 49-2 is blank for *all* Directv customers since this local guide data is supplied the same to all their customers whether they have an HR10, HR20 or any HD OTA receiver??? Right??? This would really irritate me except that I still have the CBS-NY HD feed *and* even more importantly WMBD from Peoria. :D

T

I have an HR10-250 (original HD-TiVo) and there has been blank guide data on 49-2 forever for me. I don't believe this problem is specific to the HR20. I am assuming that 49-2 is blank for *all* Directv customers since this local guide data is supplied the same to all their customers whether they have an HR10, HR20 or any HD OTA receiver??? Right???

You are correct, except for the fact the HR20 will NOT let you do an off-air scan to find "missing" channels so that you could at least watch them live. The rest of the D* receivers, including the HR10's, DO let you do this, so that you can at least see them, which is the reason why I mentioned the HR20 NOT being able to view 49.2. Actually, you COULD set up manual recordings on the HR10, but of course you wouldn't be able to do season passes & the like, since you don't have guide data.

Thx for reminding me of this - I want to contact WCIA & tell them they need to get their guide data updated properly, which would also include them getting 3.2 added to guide data as well.

This would really irritate me except that I still have the CBS-NY HD feed *and* even more importantly WMBD from Peoria.

Totally agree about it being irritating, except I can't get WMBD at all. :(

I saw plenty of artifacts on my brand new 42 Panasonic Plasma. Again, mostly in the close up fast motion scenes. Is this because of the way CBS shoots it, or some type of compression done along the line somewhere?

If you're seeing artifacts only or almost only during close up, fast action scenes, I think it is almost certainly due to limitations of the set you are watching rather than signal problems or signal processing. You guys are talking about three drastically different televisions in this discussion. The Pioneer is a top of the line state of the art plasma. The Panasonic plasmas are typically average or better than average performers. The Westinghouse is an economy set produced with main emphasis on sell price. Placed side by side with the same input source you would see a signficant difference between the Pioneer and the Panasonic, but a drastic difference between the Westinghouse and either of the other two. Response time of the Westinghouse is much slower than the Panasonic which is noticably slower than the Pioneer. There is no question with all else being equal you would see noticable deficiencies on close up fast action scenes on the Westinghouse and maybe on the Panasonic.

It is really simply a matter of getting what you pay for. It is unreasonable to expect the Westinghouse to be in the same league with the Panasonic and certainly not with the Pioneer.

It is really simply a matter of getting what you pay for. It is unreasonable to expect the Westinghouse to be in the same league with the Panasonic and certainly not with the Pioneer.

I have very accurate vision and I can see obvious differences between 720p native broadcast NBA games on ABC, and the 1080i picture on CBS. The difference was also there for the NFL when it was on FOX for regular season, and the CBS SuperBowl game.

In the case of my TV, it may indeed be the way in which the signal processors down-convert the 1080i picture to 720p. It is a budget TV set from the Best Buy Black Friday sale, but all the stats on it are impressive. I think 6.5ms is a pretty low response time of the pixels, but I don't know what a good plasma set would do. Obviously, there are big differences in things like contrast and black levels.

I have very accurate vision and I can see obvious differences between 720p native broadcast NBA games on ABC, and the 1080i picture on CBS. The difference was also there for the NFL when it was on FOX for regular season, and the CBS SuperBowl game.

In the case of my TV, it may indeed be the way in which the signal processors down-convert the 1080i picture to 720p. It is a budget TV set from the Best Buy Black Friday sale, but all the stats on it are impressive. I think 6.5ms is a pretty low response time of the pixels, but I don't know what a good plasma set would do. Obviously, there are big differences in things like contrast and black levels.


Manufacturers of LCD TV are keenly aware of this weakness in response time compared to other technologies such as Plasma, or DLP. As a result, the best of the manufacturers have improved response rate times considerably – nearly to the point of non-consideration. Some lower tier manufacturers are finding more creative ways to measure response time in order to be or stay competitive. Originally, LCD TVs and monitors were listed with TrTf (Time Rising, Time Falling – sometimes referred to as average). Now, many manufacturers are using a GTG (Gray to Gray) measurement, which is a different average and can measure quite a bit lower than the TrTf time on the same set. Some manufacturers even find it acceptable enough to list just one half of the TrTf time. The problem is there is no industry standard for measurement in response time. There are only liberal interpretations already in use for luminance and contrast ratio.

http://www.sj-r.com/sections/news/stories/111494.asp

What does this mean to us? The comments on the SJ-R page are real negative.

Hi All,
Looking at the Panny th-42px600u Verses the th-42px60u whats the Better model? Any input would be Great.

Hi All,
Looking at the Panny th-42px600u Verses the th-42px60u whats the Better model? Any input would be Great.

There isn't much difference in these two sets. You really can't go wrong with a Panasonic. Both of these should be available in the $800 to $1100 range.

http://www.sj-r.com/sections/news/stories/111494.asp

What does this mean to us?

Well a couple things to consider:

- HD pak subs might actually LOOSE HD Net & HD Movies, since Comcast doesn't have a contract to distribute them (yet). In other markets that Comcast took over from other cable co, they ended up REMOVING those channels a month after taking over.

- On broadband service, from another board they say Comcast does NOT offer a 10/1 speed choice, even on their fastest offering. They DO offer "speed boost" technology, which does give you burst speeds of up to 20MG - it's hard to tell what will happen with our existing speeds, which I AM concerned about myself.

As far as anything else - who knows... :confused: :confused:

Manufacturers of LCD TV are keenly aware of this weakness in response time compared to other technologies such as Plasma, or DLP. As a result, the best of the manufacturers have improved response rate times considerably – nearly to the point of non-consideration. Some lower tier manufacturers are finding more creative ways to measure response time in order to be or stay competitive. Originally, LCD TVs and monitors were listed with TrTf (Time Rising, Time Falling – sometimes referred to as average). Now, many manufacturers are using a GTG (Gray to Gray) measurement, which is a different average and can measure quite a bit lower than the TrTf time on the same set. Some manufacturers even find it acceptable enough to list just one half of the TrTf time. The problem is there is no industry standard for measurement in response time. There are only liberal interpretations already in use for luminance and contrast ratio.

Interesting to know. I was only aware of the way that a lot of manufacturers were fudging the numbers for contrast ratios.

With respect to Comcast internet, I have it at a seasonal residence in SW Florida. It's advertised as up to 6 megabits per second, but it's about the same speed as my DSL service in Central IL according to DSL Reports Speedtests. It has a bigger pipe up which does speed things up compared to my DSL back home. People around here seem to like the Verizon FIOS internet a bit better. I haven't had a chance to try it. I just use a wireless phone here and I'm not sure if Verizon does naked DSL or not. I may check into it next time. Comcast cable TV sucks here though. Half the time the HD isn't available and when it is, it stumbles, jumps, freezes, whatever.

I'm concerned about Comcast as well. From what I'm reading in the user reviews at dslreports.com, Comcast charges you $15 extra per month if you are not a cable TV subscriber. Some folks are paying over $60 per month just for internet service from Comcast. :(

I'm concerned about Comcast as well. From what I'm reading in the user reviews at dslreports.com, Comcast charges you $15 extra per month if you are not a cable TV subscriber. Some folks are paying over $60 per month just for internet service from Comcast. :(

That's correct. The regular price for noncable TV customers here in SW FL is $57.95 plus taxes. It's $52.95 plus taxes with a cable TV subscription. It used to be $42.95 if you also had cable TV so they've jumped the price quite a bit for the cable TV subscribers. Basic local cable (25 channels) plus broadband internet used to be less than just the cost of internet by itself. Local limited basic cable TV is$10.90 plus taxes. HD is $5 for the box. Of course they do have promo pricing. Right now it's $33 per month. Sometimes it's $20 per month for 6 months and then the price goes up. Verizon does the same with promo pricing. It's great for seasonal dwellers. Fulltime residents switch back and forth a lot depending on the promos. Comcast generally makes sure you haven't been a customer for 6 months before giving you the promo deal. Verizon FIOS is definitely cheaper here if you don't want the fastest possible account.

So I decided to take the plunge and I bought an RJC-1000 receiver and a Phillips antenna. all totaled~$130 or so. I get WCIA, WCFN, WILL,WICD,WAND and WBUI but no FOX channel. Also, I live on Kirby Ave, near Prospect Ave and when cars pass my house, the signal drops to 0. As I have been reading, this seems to indicate a multipath problem? Is there anything I can do? I'd prefer not to spend any more money if possible. I'm envisioning something like a cardboard box covered with tinfoil to block signals from all but one direction... ;-)

any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

myk

So I decided to take the plunge and I bought an RJC-1000 receiver and a Phillips antenna. all totaled~$130 or so. I get WCIA, WCFN, WILL,WICD,WAND and WBUI but no FOX channel. Also, I live on Kirby Ave, near Prospect Ave and when cars pass my house, the signal drops to 0. As I have been reading, this seems to indicate a multipath problem? Is there anything I can do? I'd prefer not to spend any more money if possible. I'm envisioning something like a cardboard box covered with tinfoil to block signals from all but one direction... ;-)

any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

myk

I have the same problems with auto traffic past my apartment, which is very near a major thoroughfare in Bloomington. I'm stuck with an indoor antenna, but this is an obvious sign that you need a larger antenna.

The cars passing by your house emit a lot of RF noise from the ignition systems. If your antenna is any size too small, that RF noise can easily overwhelm the good signal to cause blocking and dropouts like you experience. A larger antenna would result in a stronger signal, which would do well to help overpower the RF noise from the cars. It's not so much rejecting the RF noise so that it doesn't interfere - it's more along the lines of having a stronger signal that will "talk over" the RF noise so that the TV tuner can decode the good signal.

You didn't say what kind of antenna you have. Is the Phillips antenna an indoor directional antenna? Having a small outdoor antenna that you can put on the roof of your house (if you own) can go a long way to helping your problem. Electronic signals (even RF noise from auto ignition systems) decreases with the square of the distance. This means that an antenna twice as far away from a signal will pull in one-fourth the signal strength. Even a short increase in distance from the RF noise of those cars, such as moving upwards to the roof farther from the cars, will help to reduce the noise from the cars.

One experiment you can try if you have a long length of coaxial cable is to move the indoor antenna somewhere else in the house. Do you have an attic upstairs, or another room you can put the antenna in? If you can get the antenna higher in the house and near a window or thin wall, maybe with coaxial cable run through the walls you can pick up better signals that way. Also if the antenna is out of the way, there is a better WAF (wife acceptance factor) that goes with keeping some gaudy indoor antennas out of sight from the main entertainment room.

It's a Philips PHDTV3 Indoor HDTV UHF/VHF Powered Antenna. It seems very directional. Slight movements have a great effect on the signal level shown by the tuner.

I live in a one story on a slab so there's not many options in placing the antenna. I do have an attic, but getting around up there is a pain, and I'd only put an non-directional antenna up there. Any suggestions?

I'm still not sold on the outdoor antenna idea because the way my house is situated, I'm on the side of a ridge, I'll still miss signals coming from 0 to 180 degrees. Anything from the east. The antennaweb site was helpful in telling me which way to point the antenna.

Are there antennas that can be setup on their own post? I'd rather do that so the wind doesn't rip open my roof! ;-)

myk

If you're seeing artifacts only or almost only during close up, fast action scenes, I think it is almost certainly due to limitations of the set you are watching rather than signal problems or signal processing. You guys are talking about three drastically different televisions in this discussion. The Pioneer is a top of the line state of the art plasma. The Panasonic plasmas are typically average or better than average performers. The Westinghouse is an economy set produced with main emphasis on sell price. Placed side by side with the same input source you would see a signficant difference between the Pioneer and the Panasonic, but a drastic difference between the Westinghouse and either of the other two. Response time of the Westinghouse is much slower than the Panasonic which is noticably slower than the Pioneer. There is no question with all else being equal you would see noticable deficiencies on close up fast action scenes on the Westinghouse and maybe on the Panasonic.

It is really simply a matter of getting what you pay for. It is unreasonable to expect the Westinghouse to be in the same league with the Panasonic and certainly not with the Pioneer.

Wolf,
You seem to have a good knowledge of the formats. Where do you think they are going? What do you think will become the dominant flat panel format and which do you think is the best?

Wolf,
You seem to have a good knowledge of the formats. Where do you think they are going? What do you think will become the dominant flat panel format and which do you think is the best?

I think the best LCD's are almost as good as the best Plasmas. I still think the Plasmas have the edge at this point. Ultimately I think LCD will be the primary flat panel format. You may be surprised at my opinion of what format has the best picture. The latest generation 1080p DLP's are brighter, have great color saturation, no response time issues, outstanding black levels and just plain look better than the other two formats. Please consider my opinion for what it's worth. I thought almost 30 years ago that Betamax was going to be the primary consumer VCR format!!

How do you like your Pioneer Pro-Fhd1?

to those having to switch to comcast, Let me warn you. expect rate increases of 10-15% every year. sometimes twice a year. Oh yeah and don't expect too good of service either.

to those having to switch to comcast, Let me warn you. expect rate increases of 10-15% every year. sometimes twice a year. Oh yeah and don't expect too good of service either.

This is where FiOS from Verizon and AT&T will benefit the consumer. I hope that both companies get their way with cable competition, and start to put some pressure on the traditional cable companies.

This is where FiOS from Verizon and AT&T will benefit the consumer. I hope that both companies get their way with cable competition, and start to put some pressure on the traditional cable companies.

This is great and I am looking forward to this but the penetration is proceeding very slowly... :(

T

This is great and I am looking forward to this but the penetration is proceeding very slowly... :(

T


The cable providers are filing suits left and right to prevent any penetration. They're also lobbying the pols and running constant ads against Verizon here in SW FL. If they used the money they're spending for lobbying and advertising instead for improving their service, they could compete.

It's a Philips PHDTV3 Indoor HDTV UHF/VHF Powered Antenna. It seems very directional. Slight movements have a great effect on the signal level shown by the tuner.

I live in a one story on a slab so there's not many options in placing the antenna. I do have an attic, but getting around up there is a pain, and I'd only put an non-directional antenna up there. Any suggestions?

I'm still not sold on the outdoor antenna idea because the way my house is situated, I'm on the side of a ridge, I'll still miss signals coming from 0 to 180 degrees. Anything from the east. The antennaweb site was helpful in telling me which way to point the antenna.

Are there antennas that can be setup on their own post? I'd rather do that so the wind doesn't rip open my roof! ;-)

myk

You should not have any problems at that location. A quad bowtie outdoor antenna
pointing east will get you WCCU (Fox) if it is at the very top of your house. I think you will be at least a little above the ridge, which is not tall there. A quad bowtie
will get you WRSP (Fox) in Springfield if it is high enough. An octuple
bowtie would be better. You probably want
a good rooftop preamp (not Radio Shack) if you need Fox. For either Fox height helps more than anything else.

Doug McDonald

This is where FiOS from Verizon and AT&T will benefit the consumer. I hope that both companies get their way with cable competition, and start to put some pressure on the traditional cable companies.

Problem here in Champaign Urbana is that AT&T wants to cherry-pick the customers. According to an article I just read in the News-Gaztte, they aren't even planning on offering it to Urbana. That won't help competition at all. If they can pull it off without using city rights-of-way, then go for it (like the satellite companies did). However, if they need a helping hand for the cities to use their right of way, then they should have to make it accessible to everyone, like Insight (soon to be Comcast) does. Otherwise, they'll skim the cream off the top and leave those of us who live in less-affluent parts of town to suffer with what we currently have.

Problem here in Champaign Urbana is that AT&T wants to cherry-pick the customers.

It's the same concern is every location that FiOS has potential. AT&T wants to only sell to affluent customers, while avoiding the ghetto where people don't have the money for $40 per month cable or broadband. This is where states need to step in and make sure that they comply with the same service conditions as regular cable companies. Otherwise, it'll be just like redlining everywhere that AT&T and Verizon want to do business.

If they can pull it off without using city rights-of-way, then go for it (like the satellite companies did).

I'm pretty sure that the phone companies can piggyback the FiOS onto their current right-of-way that is used for copper telephone wires. If that be the case, there should be no additional right-of-way costs.

The cable companies are greatly opposing this simply because they gain most from a monopoly. They're positioning it that cities should have monopoly contracts, and AT&T and Verizon should have to provide service bids to cities during contract negotiations. The customers want two or more TV providers available, because they know that it will then be a price war - which stands to cost cable companies huge wads of cash.

......AT&T wants to only sell to affluent customers, while avoiding the ghetto where people don't have the money for $40 per month cable or broadband.

That certainly doesn't appear to be the case here in the Indianapolis area. Yes, some of the early U-verse service areas in this market are certainly in highly-affluent neighborhoods, but then on the other hand there are service areas in some fairly low income neighborhoods, too. In fact, an AT&T employee working U-verse in this area mentioned that lower income residents are more interested in U-verse than wealthier residents because they are more interested in reducing their monthly bill for TV and/or internet service. I guess time will tell how this all plays out.

Steve

Though they may have too much money invested in it to do so, I hope AT&T abandons U-verse before it gets to CU. It is a hybrid system that runs fiber to a neighborhood junction box and then uses the existing copper for the final run to the customer's house. It is significantly slower than true FIOS and since AT&T is relying on Microsoft to write a lot of the important software, you can figure it'll take 5 years to get all the bugs out. The last time I checked, U-verse was having problems carrying more than one HD stream reliably. FIOS can usually carry 4 or more HD streams.

The City of Champaign's attempt to make AT&T follow cable system rules has nothing to do with concern for the poor and infirm and everything to do with protecting its franchise fee revenue stream. The free market system always does a better job at allocating resources than does government control.

Anyone else get frequent dropouts with WICS during Lost tonight? very annoying...

Hey all, new to HDTV's so I know I'll have a lot of questions that many before me have asked.

thinking about getting an HDTV, in Champaign IL. I have currently Dish Network, and it would be best to stay with that for most of my channels, since we need specific channels that they offer (i.e. international ones). anyhoo, I'm considering something in the 50"+ range, tho it could be smaller. want 1080p just because its the best really.

so for all you chambanians! what type of HD programming do i have available? I've heard of OTA, how does this usually work? can I hire some one to install this antenna? anyone with dishHD like their HD stuff?

thanks for the help in advance and I'm looking forward to some awesome TV!

Welcome to the group Spooky. I've had a Dish ViP 622 HD DVR since it came out last year. I can highly recommend it both as a DVR and OTA HD receiver. Most folks in CU have little problem getting all the networks in HD OTA with reasonable antennas. You'll likely need more than an indoor antenna, though. I have one mounted in the attic of a 2-story house which gets all the networks just fine (though I get Fox from Springfield since the Urbana transmitter is fairly weak). If you don't like climbing on your roof or through your attic, Good Vibes can put an antenna up for you for about $200 or so.

Before I forked out the extra cash for a 1080p display, I'd look very carefully to see if I could see much improvement over 720p. Unless I sit very close to the monitor, I can't see much difference between the 2 formats. For the price of a 50" 1080p you could get a 60" 720p (or the rough plasma equivalent since most plasmas are a bit higher than 720p for some reason).

Anyone else get frequent dropouts with WICS during Lost tonight? very annoying...
Only had one here in Sherman -- and it might have just been the HD Tivo. It's been a little on the flaky side lately.

Just wanted to let everyone know that I've been talking to WCIA about the missing subchannel info on DirecTV receivers (3-2 and 49-2).

For many HD D* receivers, this is an annoyance because the subchannels don't show up in the guide by default. And, when they are added, they often say "regular schedule" (which is a pain when you want to record something on the HD Tivo). However, on the HR20, it's fatal because you can't even view the channel. For those of us in the Springfield area, that means no CBS. :(

WCIA is contacting Tribune Media Services to correct the situation. If all goes well, we should have guide info in the next week or two. And, more importantly on the HR20, we'll be able to see (and record) the subchannels.

Props to WCIA for responding to this issue and taking care of it. It only took an e-mail or two to get things going in the right direction.

Now, if I could just get WAND to respond the same way so HR20 owners can view the weather channel on 17-2... :mad:

Welcome to the group Spooky. I've had a Dish ViP 622 HD DVR since it came out last year. I can highly recommend it both as a DVR and OTA HD receiver. Most folks in CU have little problem getting all the networks in HD OTA with reasonable antennas. You'll likely need more than an indoor antenna, though. I have one mounted in the attic of a 2-story house which gets all the networks just fine (though I get Fox from Springfield since the Urbana transmitter is fairly weak). If you don't like climbing on your roof or through your attic, Good Vibes can put an antenna up for you for about $200 or so.

Before I forked out the extra cash for a 1080p display, I'd look very carefully to see if I could see much improvement over 720p. Unless I sit very close to the monitor, I can't see much difference between the 2 formats. For the price of a 50" 1080p you could get a 60" 720p (or the rough plasma equivalent since most plasmas are a bit higher than 720p for some reason).

thanks for the advice! I'm usually a do it yourselfer but things that involve roofs that I can fall off of sounds like an accident waiting to happen :) tho I hope that 200$ is not all labor.

im thinking that the 622 would be the best option but the cable situation in the house is kind of weird: the receiver that I have now (dual tuner dish DVR) is in the basement and the main TV (that I want to replace with the new HDTV) is upstairs on LINE 2 of the DVR. so that needs to be switched for me to get the HD signal to the TV. complicated.
how does that work being an existing dish customer? do i pay a leasing fee for the new receiver? or do i just buy it outright? not sure about this one need to call them to ask.

as far as resolution? you are right i prolly wouldnt be able to tell. tho it would be nice to be able to connect a computer or PS3 to it and get the full picture. what I mean is I want to future proof it (tho I know all HDTV broadcast is in 780p) so when Bluray/ HDDVD comes along it won't be a problem (is this naive of me :) ?)

oh yeah btw how does channel info work? will local HD info come up thru the dish network receiver?

guess I need to pay a visit to good vibes and best buy.

I think Dish may have some deals for current subscribers moving to HD. You can get two satellite feeds through one cable if you have the right dishes and splitters. You should try for a deal that includes free installation and let someone else deal with the wiring problems. A good place to check for satellite TV information is dbstalk.com, which is linked through this board, I think.

If you subscibe to local channels (only in SD right now) you get guide data for the local OTA channels on your guide grid from Dish. The only fly in the ointment is that DISH gets ABC for this area from channel 20 in Springfield, not WICD here in town, so there is no data for WICD. I can pick up the Springfield channel with my antenna, so that's not really a problem for me. Also, guide data for PBS has been missing for the last couple of months. It was there for a while but is now gone and I have heard no good explanation why.

WCIA had the HD turned off tonight, at least from 8pm until David Letterman is on right now. Startup problems, or asleep at the switch?

WCIA had the HD turned off tonight, at least from 8pm until David Letterman is on right now. Startup problems, or asleep at the switch?
Watching Thurs night, I noticed really bad picture freezing and sound cracks. I figured it was either the HD side or the network feed, because CSI and Dave were bad but the local news was fine. I was not surprised when there was no network HD Fri night. Frankly I was pleased. To me it meant they knew and were working on it.

Mike

anyone in robeson meadows or cherry hills in champaign? I'm in robeson meadows and I'm wondering whether an indoor will do the trick.

Watching Thurs night, I noticed really bad picture freezing and sound cracks.

I saw that as well, but thought it was my crappy indoor antenna. If others had the same thing, I guess not.

and now Sat night WCIA HD was completely fine for me

Before I forked out the extra cash for a 1080p display, I'd look very carefully to see if I could see much improvement over 720p. Unless I sit very close to the monitor, I can't see much difference between the 2 formats. For the price of a 50" 1080p you could get a 60" 720p (or the rough plasma equivalent since most plasmas are a bit higher than 720p for some reason).


I had always thought that way too, until I checked out, and ultimately purchased, a Sony 52"XBR3 1080P. The difference from my 720P 55" Philips LCD, is jaw dropping even for my wife, (who consistently tells me that she wouldn't have all this electronic crap shoved up her...well, you get the idea.) She raves at how much brighter and detailed/sharper the picture is on the Sony.

I have a PS3 and the Blu-Ray movies are fantastic on it.

I usually agree with you, mraub, on most things. But not this time.

I read on here something about the Dish 622 having problems with the reception of WCIA due to incompatibility with the "Thayes Exciter" or something like that.

I just got their newest software (4.03) last night, and I'm still having the same problems...dropping signal, major blocking, stuttering in the feed, all with a signal in the high 70s-low 80s in East Urbana.

I sent a PM to WCIAchief a few days ago, but I'm wondering if we've scared him off?

Have you all heard of any fix for this?

Did you have a problem with version 4.01 of the 622's software? My 622 probably took 4.03 last night as well and hope it didn't recreate the problem solved by 4.01.
One person on dbstalk.com reported that 4.03 fixed his problems with WCIA.
Here's a link to the release notes for 4.03:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=85176

I watched the Cardinals on channel 23 and didn't tune in WCIA all day.

I'm new to the list and getting ready to upgrade to HD in our home. I've read much of the local thread here, but wanted to ask a question. I can't seem to tell if there is a big difference between the QAM over Insight as opposed to OTA signals pulled in the old fashioned way.

Any insight into which way I should go. Is the picture from OTA better than QAM? Does it override the convenience of the cable hookup? Any input would be greatly appreciated.

I just wanted to make a solid judgement before I worked out my wiring layout.

Thanks!

Did you have a problem with version 4.01 of the 622's software? My 622 probably took 4.03 last night as well and hope it didn't recreate the problem solved by 4.01.
One person on dbstalk.com reported that 4.03 fixed his problems with WCIA.
Here's a link to the release notes for 4.03:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=85176

I watched the Cardinals on channel 23 and didn't tune in WCIA all day.

I never got 4.01...was always on 3.66. Was hoping for 4.01 when I had read on here that it would solve the problems with WCIA, but then Dish stalled the rollout I guess due to bugs, and then finally I went directly to 4.03.

When you get a chance to check your WCIA reception on your 622, I'd appreciate a post or PM advising me if you're seeing the same problems that I'm having...seeing as how we're practically neighbors! :)

I have two Dish 942 DVR Receivers and have had trouble with the signal strength also. Have about 74 to 79 but I can't keep a picture and lots of pixalation. Loose signal CONSTANTLY. I assume my problem is the same as you guys with 622's since the 942 isn't much different a receiver with the exception of the MPEG4 thing on the 622. I wonder if Dish and Thales transmitter engineers have worked this problem out or are we still waiting for something else to happen?

I tuned in WCIA last night and it seemed fine on a Dish 622. Signal strength was 100/100 with no video or audio dropouts. Have you tried adjusting your antenna? Your signal strength ought to be (like mine) nearly maxed out in SW Champaign.

I'm new to the list and getting ready to upgrade to HD in our home. I've read much of the local thread here, but wanted to ask a question. I can't seem to tell if there is a big difference between the QAM over Insight as opposed to OTA signals pulled in the old fashioned way.

Any insight into which way I should go. Is the picture from OTA better than QAM? Does it override the convenience of the cable hookup? Any input would be greatly appreciated.

I just wanted to make a solid judgement before I worked out my wiring layout.

Thanks!

I could never notice any difference. The Insight QAM clear HD has pretty much been set it and forget it. Although who knows how that will change with Comcast.

I could never notice any difference. The Insight QAM clear HD has pretty much been set it and forget it. Although who knows how that will change with Comcast.

Thanks Anonymous C. - I assumed the convenience of cable would outweigh the troubles one might have trying to place an antennae in the right spot. I just thought if there was a reasonable difference, I'd go through the trouble.

I had read on another thread questioning if cable companies compress the signals at all. I was just curious if anyone noticed much difference here in C-U.

The Comcast situation concerns me a bit as I read that the prices in other markets are much higher than what we're paying here. I've got a Dish system, so I'm not as concerned about the full cable rates as I am the internet rates and locals. I received a notice just yesterday that Insight is already raising the rate $5 or so. I guess we'll see what happens.

Thanks again!

I think the best LCD's are almost as good as the best Plasmas. I still think the Plasmas have the edge at this point. Ultimately I think LCD will be the primary flat panel format. You may be surprised at my opinion of what format has the best picture. The latest generation 1080p DLP's are brighter, have great color saturation, no response time issues, outstanding black levels and just plain look better than the other two formats. Please consider my opinion for what it's worth. I thought almost 30 years ago that Betamax was going to be the primary consumer VCR format!!

How do you like your Pioneer Pro-Fhd1?

Sorry I took so long getting back to you. I've been in one of the few places left in the world where WiFi is rare.

I like the Pioneer very much. The difference between 720 and 1080 is dramatic. I find your comment about DLP interesting. I have a 1080p DLP in my billiards room (Tos 62-196). I have not had the two sets side by side to make a really accurate comparison, but the DLP is very good. The color accuracy and detail on both sets are very good. I think the Pioneer might have a little softer picture not to say that that is better or worse, just a little different. I will say, however, that the DLP has a larger screen (62"), was much less expensive (less than half the price) and has an amazingly good picture. And by the way, Betamax had the better picture without a doubt!! LOL

Went to good vibes and as I ascertain it I have two options being a current dish customer:

1) buy an HDTV and just get an antenna for $200. I'll have some local channels for free and it will come directly into the TV

2) buy the HDTV, get the antenna for local channels in HD ($200), subscribe to Dish's HD program pack for $20/ month, and Dish will probably install all the stuff I need/ give me the equipment for free. It will be extra/ month but I'll have around 25 more HD channels, I'll be able to record in HD and record local channels, and have local info (sometimes). Might have to sign a contract...

I'll need the antenna either way because without it the major networks wont be in HD. So if I get the antenna from good vibes how many channels can I actually receive?

still have to call dish network to see what they'll do. any advice one way or the other?

W So if I get the antenna from good vibes how many channels can I actually receive?

any advice one way or the other?

You should be able to get WILL (PBS), WAND (NBC), WCIA (CBS), WBUI (CW), WCCU (Fox) and WCID (ABC)..I can also get WRSP (Fox) and WCIS (ABC) both from Springfield. I am using an indoor antenna from Radio Shack, which only cost $50.

The last time I checked on getting Dish, I was told that I had to buy the HD receiver and pay a monthly fee, besides. Not sure if they are doing this anymore, though.

You should be able to get WILL (PBS), WAND (NBC), WCIA (CBS), WBUI (CW), WCCU (Fox) and WCID (ABC)..I can also get WRSP (Fox) and WCIS (ABC) both from Springfield. I am using an indoor antenna from Radio Shack, which only cost $50.

The last time I checked on getting Dish, I was told that I had to buy the HD receiver and pay a monthly fee, besides. Not sure if they are doing this anymore, though.

Thats a good point. I think for sure I'll at least try the indoor antenna first and if it doesnt work well enough here I'll just return it.

After thinking about it, maybe the Dish DVR is not such a bad deal. I can't record HD OTA, so if the Dish DVR can, it may be worth the investment. The only DVR that I know of that can record HD OTA is the Sony HDD-250/500 and those are very hard to find. On ebay, they run $450-800, so if you can buy the Dish DVR for $350 you would be money ahead. If you decide to try an indoor antenna, you may end up trying several before you get one that works for all channels. I went through two before finding the Radio Shack one, so be prepared to experiment. I heard the Zenith silver sensor is pretty good, but some of the Terks are hit-or-miss.

Mel

The only DVR that I know of that can record HD OTA is the Sony HDD-250/500 and those are very hard to find. On ebay, they run $450-800, so if you can buy the Dish DVR for $350 you would be money ahead.

Money ahead until you factor in monthly service.

I know that the people at Dish have to make a business case for subsidizing their hardware giveaways to the customers, but the single most annoying thing about Dish and DirecTV that pisses me off is that they go to great lengths to ensure that you cannot use the FREE services offered by their equipment without a service contract. I.E. you cannot end your Dish contract and then use your receiver HDTV DVR capability to record OTA signals. Same thing with the Tivo company. They keep hitting you with the nickel and dime stuff until you've paid out a small fortune in the long run.

If you get good OTA reception with an indoor or outdoor antenna, and have a little money to invest up front, you might consider the Sony HD DVR units on eBay or possibly making your own Home Theater PC for HDTV recording. The up-front money is necessary, but eventually you hit the payback period where it's all gravy after that.

The downside is that without the Dish you can't get some network HD stuff like Discovery and HBO. Maybe you can live without that, knowing that it's outweighed by the ability to get plenty of free HD stuff from ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, and FOX.

If you get good OTA reception with an indoor or outdoor antenna, and have a little money to invest up front, you might consider the Sony HD DVR units on eBay or possibly making your own Home Theater PC for HDTV recording. The up-front money is necessary, but eventually you hit the payback period where it's all gravy after that.

The downside is that without the Dish you can't get some network HD stuff like Discovery and HBO. Maybe you can live without that, knowing that it's outweighed by the ability to get plenty of free HD stuff from ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, and FOX.

its true, you need to subscribe to the $20/month service to get the upgrades prolly. but you're not just throwing money away, you're getting 30 some channels, of which I counted 27 which are actually useful. but thats a lot, IMO. hopefully they'll expand on that too.

its true, you need to subscribe to the $20/month service to get the upgrades prolly. but you're not just throwing money away, you're getting 30 some channels, of which I counted 27 which are actually useful. but thats a lot, IMO. hopefully they'll expand on that too.

It would be cool if you could indeed spend $20 a month to get 20-some useful HD channels, but the total package price is more like $60 a month after you buy the basic packages just to upgrade to HD. First Dish charges $30 a month for the Top 100 package, and another $20 for the HD feeds. Don't forget taxes.

If Dish had an offer of paying $20 a month for ONLY the HD feeds that they offer, it would be pretty nice. But I and plenty of other people really don't enjoy paying for 60 some other junk TV stations that they'll never watch. Oxygen network? Shop-at-home? HorseRacing TV? Plenty of others, too. I like watching Discovery or The History Channel as much as the next guy, but I don't like my TV package price to include subsidizing some of the other junk.

I wish that satellite and cable companies would offer ala carte packaging, let the crap channels die a quick death from lack of subscribers, and pass on lower prices to the consumers who can then pick EXACTLY what they want to pay for.

Just wanted to let everyone know that I've been talking to WCIA about the missing subchannel info on DirecTV receivers (3-2 and 49-2).

For many HD D* receivers, this is an annoyance because the subchannels don't show up in the guide by default. And, when they are added, they often say "regular schedule" (which is a pain when you want to record something on the HD Tivo). However, on the HR20, it's fatal because you can't even view the channel. For those of us in the Springfield area, that means no CBS. :(

WCIA is contacting Tribune Media Services to correct the situation. If all goes well, we should have guide info in the next week or two. And, more importantly on the HR20, we'll be able to see (and record) the subchannels.

Props to WCIA for responding to this issue and taking care of it. It only took an e-mail or two to get things going in the right direction.

Now, if I could just get WAND to respond the same way so HR20 owners can view the weather channel on 17-2... :mad:

Well thanks are in order to you for getting this fixed - my HD Tivo now has BOTH of these channels properly listed in the guide. YAY, now we can RECORD CBS in HD over here in Springpatch!!! :D

Can anyone with an HR20 check & see if this is now fixed on their units?

Now, how about getting that 17-2 fixed, LOL... (just kidding) :D

Well thanks are in order to you for getting this fixed - my HD Tivo now has BOTH of these channels properly listed in the guide. YAY, now we can RECORD CBS in HD over here in Springpatch!!! :D

Can anyone with an HR20 check & see if this is now fixed on their units?

Now, how about getting that 17-2 fixed, LOL... (just kidding) :D
HR20 now gets 3-2 and 49-2 as well...

No weather channel, though. :)

It would be cool if you could indeed spend $20 a month to get 20-some useful HD channels, but the total package price is more like $60 a month after you buy the basic packages just to upgrade to HD. First Dish charges $30 a month for the Top 100 package, and another $20 for the HD feeds. Don't forget taxes.

If Dish had an offer of paying $20 a month for ONLY the HD feeds that they offer, it would be pretty nice. But I and plenty of other people really don't enjoy paying for 60 some other junk TV stations that they'll never watch. Oxygen network? Shop-at-home? HorseRacing TV? Plenty of others, too. I like watching Discovery or The History Channel as much as the next guy, but I don't like my TV package price to include subsidizing some of the other junk.

yeah its not a great deal, but we already have the $30/month america's top 60 package. and we HAVE to have dish network anyways (because we need certain internatl channels from dish)

I'm considering the 52" Aquos 1080p version. seems like a good TV to me. at Best buy its gonna be $3600 ish after tax. versus online, at Buydig.com for $2437, shipped free. so wtf? is going on, why is there that big of a price difference... why would anyone buy in store? there has to be a catch with the online purchase... I'm trying to find it.

yeah its not a great deal, but we already have the $30/month america's top 60 package. and we HAVE to have dish network anyways (because we need certain internatl channels from dish)

I'm considering the 52" Aquos 1080p version. seems like a good TV to me. at Best buy its gonna be $3600 ish after tax. versus online, at Buydig.com for $2437, shipped free. so wtf? is going on, why is there that big of a price difference... why would anyone buy in store? there has to be a catch with the online purchase... I'm trying to find it.


There is a banding issue with this set. There is no catch in the price, several online retailers are selling it in the same price range. The set you purchase may or may not have the problem. Do your homework and read the reviews, the set gets very mixed ratings.

There is a banding issue with this set. There is no catch in the price, several online retailers are selling it in the same price range. The set you purchase may or may not have the problem. Do your homework and read the reviews, the set gets very mixed ratings.

Also, don't forget to check out your on-line retailer here (http://www.resellerratings.com/)

It would be cool if you could indeed spend $20 a month to get 20-some useful HD channels, but the total package price is more like $60 a month after you buy the basic packages just to upgrade to HD. First Dish charges $30 a month for the Top 100 package, and another $20 for the HD feeds. Don't forget taxes.

If Dish had an offer of paying $20 a month for ONLY the HD feeds that they offer, it would be pretty nice. But I and plenty of other people really don't enjoy paying for 60 some other junk TV stations that they'll never watch. Oxygen network? Shop-at-home? HorseRacing TV? Plenty of others, too. I like watching Discovery or The History Channel as much as the next guy, but I don't like my TV package price to include subsidizing some of the other junk.

I wish that satellite and cable companies would offer ala carte packaging, let the crap channels die a quick death from lack of subscribers, and pass on lower prices to the consumers who can then pick EXACTLY what they want to pay for.

Read up a little on ala carte. Google it. ;)

For one good thread....definitely not a panacea. I'll like the current system. Sure it could be better but....

Ala carte (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=774774&highlight=ala+carte)

T

Read up a little on ala carte. Google it. ;)

For one good thread....definitely not a panacea. I'll like the current system. Sure it could be better but....

With all due respect, cable and satellite companies make humongous fistfuls of money in the form of real profit - not just revenue. No cable distribution company is going to go out of business if they're forced to go to ala carte product distribution. Even if prices for individual channels were to increase over their average cost as determined from being bundled in a package, I believe that overall cost for a total package of ala carte channels would decrease.

Such an ala carte choice could also benefit cable companies by bringing in new customers who otherwise don't subscribe because of the high costs associated with packages. I may be in the extreme minority, but to me cable is a commodity that has a very high elasticity of demand. I am very sensitive on price, and will not pay more than I am willing for television entertainment. The cable package I would like to have would include the big 5 (ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, PBS), Discovery HD, ESPN HD, ESPN2 HD, possibly HBO HD, and just a few other SD channels such as Comedy Central, The History Channel, TLC, CNN, TBS, TNT, FOX News, and Sci-Fi Channel. Looking at the Insight channel lineup, that is literally less than 5% of all the channels that they offer with their packages.

I won't buy the arguments than any of those cable channels have production costs that are above and beyond regular networks, and ABC/NBC/CBS seem to get along just fine on advertising revenue while broadcasting programming that I pay zero dollars to view. TBS or TNT can do just the same, and notice that despite being on cable pay TV those networks still have commercials to generate revenue. There is no reason that any of these channels couldn't survive on revenue of just a few dollars per customer per month, given the subscription base that is available. I would pay a premium for a network such as HBO because of the premium content, plus the lack of commercials.

I would want a total cost for the TV package that I desire to be under $40 per month, taxes included. I don't see any reason that this could not be accomplished with ala carte pricing, and as I've said before the cable company would gain another subscriber as well. The costs for the cable company to maintain their infrastructure that gets the cable to my apartment are fixed costs, and mandatory costs at that. The franchise agreement with the city states that their cable has to be available to everyone - no redlining any neighborhoods. This puts the marginal cost of me as a subscriber at exactly zero dollars, because the cable company already maintains the cable lines that run to my apartment. All that is necessary would be for them to open the box, and plug in the lead to my apartment. As is, they are making zero revenue from me because the programming I desire is not available in a package that I want - to get what I've described would run to over $90 per month with all the stacked packages that I would be required to purchase from Insight.

So in the end, the cable company does not have me as a subscriber simply because I'm extremely stubborn about getting exactly what I want at a cost that I am willing to pay. Not that Insight cares one bit about revenue from a single subscriber, but I feel that the mandatory packaging of television content is a sore point for a large amount of customers. As with a lot of free-market commodities, competition is good for the customer. I look forward to the day that television franchising is opened to any and all competition from AT&T or Verizon through their FiOS - and ala carte packaging is mandated by FCC regulations.

Did anyone else have sound and picture problems with WICS-DT Channel 20 last evening? I kept getting sound drops, bad sync, and they kept going back and forth between HD and SD and 16:9 and 4:3. I'm wondering if it was my tuner or their broadcast. I'm hoping the latter.

I wonder what percentage does sports programming make up of cable/satellite costs? My guess is that it is fairly high. When a professional baseball/football/basketball player signs a contract for millions of dollars a year, one of the things the organization does to recoup their money is sell the viewing rights to networks. Every time ESPN, Comcast,WGN, Fox Network and others, bids on the rights to broadcast MLB, NFL, & NBA games, the amounts go up & up. The networks get some of their money back by selling advertising, but in the end, who do you think ends up paying for those ridiculous player contracts....cable & satellite sports fans & NON-sports fans. If you pulled sports out of the equation, I guarantee you'd see low cable & satellite prices. Of course then I'd have to talk to my wife in the evenings.

Did anyone else have sound and picture problems with WICS-DT Channel 20 last evening? I kept getting sound drops, bad sync, and they kept going back and forth between HD and SD and 16:9 and 4:3. I'm wondering if it was my tuner or their broadcast. I'm hoping the latter.

I was going to say the same, I rarely get reception problems but I do get the occasional screen flickering to black but it is rare and brief. My biggest gripe is that they are always late turning on the HD and shut it off early as well. There have been times that they did not turn it on during an entire show. It is mildly annoying to say the least, and I have noticed that the other networks never have that problem. :rolleyes:

Yes indeed WICS-DT was awful on Thursday night, I just watched Greys Anatomy from Thur. and it was sad. Constant audio drop outs and 1\2 of the show was not in HD. It is like they have junior high students in the studio at night in charge of the transmission. Oh well, I will e-mail the engineer to see what if anything he knows about it.

I wonder what percentage does sports programming make up of cable/satellite costs? My guess is that it is fairly high. When a professional baseball/football/basketball player signs a contract for millions of dollars a year, one of the things the organization does to recoup their money is sell the viewing rights to networks. Every time ESPN, Comcast,WGN, Fox Network and others, bids on the rights to broadcast MLB, NFL, & NBA games, the amounts go up & up. The networks get some of their money back by selling advertising, but in the end, who do you think ends up paying for those ridiculous player contracts....cable & satellite sports fans & NON-sports fans. If you pulled sports out of the equation, I guarantee you'd see low cable & satellite prices. Of course then I'd have to talk to my wife in the evenings.

You can say the same thing for TV/movie stars. Look at their salaries....The haves and have nots. The spread gets further and further.

T

Anyone seeing a lot of signal breakup/macroblocking on WCIA-HD tonight?

I'm getting a signal of 90-91, but am seeing continuous breakup....bleagh.

Anyone seeing a lot of signal breakup/macroblocking on WCIA-HD tonight?

I'm getting a signal of 90-91, but am seeing continuous breakup....bleagh.


Solid here. 88 signal.

I saw some occasional (1-2X/minute) minor breakups, which always seemed to be in the lower half of the picture. Not enough to make the show unwatchable, but I wish they'd go away.

Hi Everyone,

I am currently using a small indoor antenna and I am getting Fox only. I was thinking of mounting a big outdoor antenna in my attic. This is because it would be easier for me to do my self.

Does anyone know how well I can expect it to work from the attic?

Thanks, Extended

It all depends on your location. Try and input your zip in here:

This is a good start. Antenna web (http://antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx)

YMMV. I have had an antenna in my attic for almost 2 years and I have had very good luck using a Channelmaster 4221 and a 7777 preamp. I live about 15 miles north of Springfield and I am able to even get Peoria (WEEK and WMBD). Of course, WRSP, WICS and WAND come in fine also.

T

I can get WB (aka CW), NBC, ABC, CBS and PBS all in HD from my indoor $70 antenna. is it worth the extra $130 for the outdoor from good vibes? what am i missing out on?

Fox?

thats it rite? not sure if its worth 130 dollars just for fox... but then 24 would look good in HD

Fox is the only one missing as far as I know. Where are you, Spooky? There's 43 out of Bloomington/McLean (SW of B-N), 55 out of Mechanicsburg/Springfield (E of Springfield), and 27 from C-U (NE of C-U).

For those with the Directv HR-20, WAND's Radar on 17-2 is now available.

Need to go into Antenna Set-up and Favorites and make selections.

Viewing OTA, if I switch to them from another source, they nearly blast me through the back wall of the house.

I mentioned it to someone at work today who has Insight, and she said the same thing.

Anyone else notice that?

I'm in Crawfordsville, IN with an Archer VU-120 in the attic. For the last year or so, I've received WICD-DT with a signal strength of 90 most of the time. The only other station with that kind of strength is WLFI-DT in Lafayette. Most of the last week or so, WICD-DT has been in the 60s or non-existent. Does anyone know what happened to their signal? The Lafayette and Indy stations are about where they usually are.

I'm in Crawfordsville, IN with an Archer VU-120 in the attic. For the last year or so, I've received WICD-DT with a signal strength of 90 most of the time. The only other station with that kind of strength is WLFI-DT in Lafayette. Most of the last week or so, WICD-DT has been in the 60s or non-existent. Does anyone know what happened to their signal? The Lafayette and Indy stations are about where they usually are.

The signal has not changed. My guess is that your ability to receive the signal has changed. Get the chain saw out and cut down the tree that is blocking the signal or get your antenna out of the attic.

I think the best LCD's are almost as good as the best Plasmas. I still think the Plasmas have the edge at this point. Ultimately I think LCD will be the primary flat panel format. You may be surprised at my opinion of what format has the best picture. The latest generation 1080p DLP's are brighter, have great color saturation, no response time issues, outstanding black levels and just plain look better than the other two formats. Please consider my opinion for what it's worth. I thought almost 30 years ago that Betamax was going to be the primary consumer VCR format!!

How do you like your Pioneer Pro-Fhd1?


Sorry I took so long getting back to you. I've been in one of the few places left in the world where WiFi is rare.

I like the Pioneer very much. The difference between 720 and 1080 is dramatic. I find your comment about DLP interesting. I have a 1080p DLP in my billiards room (Tos 62-196). I have not had the two sets side by side to make a really accurate comparison, but the DLP is very good. The color accuracy and detail on both sets are very good. I think the Pioneer might have a little softer picture not to say that that is better or worse, just a little different. I will say, however, that the DLP has a larger screen (62"), was much less expensive (less than half the price) and has an amazingly good picture. And by the way, Betamax had the better picture without a doubt!! LOL

Wolf, you got me curious enough to put the plasma and DLP side by side. We compared 720p and 1080i off air and BluRay DVD. To my surprise the DLP looked better in every instance. The Pioneer was very good but the DLP was better in color rendition, the same in black level, but most of all the DLP was FAR better in motion scenes. I'll continue to enjoy both sets, but I must say that I expected the plasma to make a better showing especially considering it cost almost three times as much!!

Viewing OTA, if I switch to them from another source, they nearly blast me through the back wall of the house.

I mentioned it to someone at work today who has Insight, and she said the same thing.

Anyone else notice that?

I notice that too, its so loud it distorts. Their analog audio sometimes sounds better then their HD audio. i wish someone there would back it down to about half what it is now.

Dr.

I also was noticing loud WCIA audio, to the point of distortion on Letterman.
I emailed WCIA engineering over the weekend.
Letterman seemed fine last night; anyone agree or disagree?
Mike

Does anyone have an idea when Directv will have local HD for the central Illinois market?

Does anyone have an idea when Directv will have local HD for the central Illinois market?

Probably after Directv 11 is launched. Even though it's scheduled for later this year....I'd say by Summer next year.

The last time I checked, our DMA was not given a release date by either Dish or DirecTV. Most of our local broadcasters are up to full power and most people can easily receive them with a simple roof antenna or one in the attic. Fox in Urbana is pretty weak, but their station in Springfield easily reaches Champaign.


Does anyone have an idea when Directv will have local HD for the central Illinois market?

Has anyone else been seeing poor signals, the last few days, on channels 17.1, 23.1, 12.1 and sometimes 27.1? I dont know if this weather front has anything to do with it. I live in Danville and have an OTA antenna that had been pulling these stations in at least a signal of 75% to 90%. Nothing has changed with 15.1 or 3.1. They both still come in at 90%+. Any response will be appreciated! Thank you!

Jeff

Has anyone else been seeing poor signals, the last few days, on channels 17.1, 23.1, 12.1 and sometimes 27.1? I dont know if this weather front has anything to do with it. I live in Danville and have an OTA antenna that had been pulling these stations in at least a signal of 75% to 90%. Nothing has changed with 15.1 or 3.1. They both still come in at 90%+. Any response will be appreciated! Thank you!

Jeff


Trees dude.

Hi Everyone,

I am currently using a small indoor antenna and I am getting Fox only. I was thinking of mounting a big outdoor antenna in my attic. This is because it would be easier for me to do my self.

Does anyone know how well I can expect it to work from the attic?

Thanks, Extended

I live in Bloomington (61701) and I'm surrounded by big trees but I'm still able to get 3.1 and 3.2 (WCIA), 12.1 12.2 and 12.3 (PBS), 17.1 and 17.2 (WAND), 20.1 (WICS), 23.1 (WBUI), 43 (WYZZ) and 55 (WRSP).

I have a RadioShack $80 antenna in the attic and for the most part it works ok. I think that sometimes I lose the signal but it might be due to them because I always get it back after some time. Right now WCIA and WICS are usually the ones that give me more trouble but, as I said, for the most part they work ok.

Good luck

Has anybody else noticed that WICD-DT seems dead as a doornail?

Doug McDonald

It went out last night after a brief lightning storm...lost the feed from MediaCom, but never checked OTA.

Mel

I've been watching WCIA for a couple of months now that they've got the HD feed on the air, and I'd have to say the effort put forth for the HD broadcasts was well worth the wait. Living in downtown Bloomington, I'm limited to my TV broadcast reception by a huge brick building that is sited directly west of me. Thus, I can't get Peoria stations at all - the exception being WYZZ Fox.

Using my $10 indoor rabbit ear antenna (+UHF loop) I'm able to pull in PBS from Champaign, ABC from Springfield, and now CBS from Champaign as well. I do have to move around the antenna a bit to get the best reception for each channel, and CBS requires me to basically hang the UHF loop on a nail outside my window to get signal that is unaffected by being inside the walls of my building. Such is the plight of apartment living without cable TV . . .

Either way, aside from the VOLUME OF CBS BEING THROUGH THE ROOF EVERY TIME I CHANGE THE CHANNEL TO WICS, I'm happy to have CSI in HD - along with a couple of other shows that were nice. Sitcoms don't do my thing, but Jericho was good while it was on. I'd love to hear from other people's experiences with the new HD CBS feed.

Has anybody else noticed that WICD-DT seems dead as a doornail?

Doug McDonald


Working fine here. Trees dude.

Has anybody else noticed that WICD-DT seems dead as a doornail?

Doug McDonald


It was off for a couple of days I believe, checked last night and it was back up.

Working fine here. Trees dude.

Not trees ... it was actually dead, no signal whatsoever on my spectrum analyzer.
As another poster said, they are back up, but I think from the analyzer that
they are at lower than full power, perhaps 1/10 to 1/2.

I note that when they were off, on my indoor Yagi here in Champaign,
WICS-42 was rock solid, so I still had ABC.

Doug McDonald

Has anybody else noticed that WICD-DT seems dead as a doornail?

Doug McDonald

i had the same issue. i called the station, they had probs with their digital transmitter. fixed now.

fox 27(wccu) has issues too. called them also. they were checking into it.

Not trees ... it was actually dead, no signal whatsoever on my spectrum analyzer.
As another poster said, they are back up, but I think from the analyzer that
they are at lower than full power, perhaps 1/10 to 1/2.

I note that when they were off, on my indoor Yagi here in Champaign,
WICS-42 was rock solid, so I still had ABC.

Doug McDonald

They are operating on a temporary antenna. Same height same transmitter power but lower gain. The regular antenna had to be sent in for repair-same problem that WICS had. The icing in the Champaign area wasn't as severe so it didn't completely fail but it was damaged. It's expected back the week of 6/18. There will be another interruption when it's reinstalled, hopefully less than the 24 hours it took to get the temp in place.

Jwn

Can anyone recommend someone who can sell and install an OTA antenna that will supplement my HR20 viewing? I live in Springfield and I'm just looking for a small unobtrusive antenna that will pull in the locals. Thanks

Just wanted to let you know I've at least seen your post. I don't have a recommendation as I did my own install. I know there are other Springfield area people that are sometimes around here but the forum has been very quiet for the past couple of months.

WILL-DT. Did WILL-DT get knocked off the air by the storms last weekend; haven't see them since then; did a rescan and nothing on 9 comes up. jtv

Crazy night for trop activity, I'm picking up WEVV-DT 45 out of Evansville, IN with signal strength of 60 in Chatham, IL!! This is using a DB 2 with a CM 7777 pre-amp hooked up facing south. I love summer.

Crazy night for trop activity, I'm picking up WEVV-DT 45 out of Evansville, IN with signal strength of 60 in Chatham, IL!! This is using a DB 2 with a CM 7777 pre-amp hooked up facing south. I love summer.

I remember one morning being able to pick up KSDK 5 DT out of St. Louis one morning, getting solid signal lock on their morning show, then rotating towards Chicago and getting occasional signal lock, enough to see their live weather cams and highway conditions. I could then see Cincinnati, but alas, no DTV lock. However, DTV won't give you that tell tail sign of beating sync signals. It will get harder to tell when TV DX is possible.

What's the deal with 15-1 tonight? The picture is awful, and it's cutting in and out terribly. Anyone else noticing problems with Monsters, Inc.?

Does anyone in the area own a TV, DVR, or DVD recorder that uses the Gemstar TV Guide On Screen System? (Or is anyone in the area familiar with the service?)

Gemstar contracts with one or more local stations in a given area to pass the TV Guide information along to the consumer, in our case PBS WILL Channel 12 (analog). This service is comparable to services like TiVO except that the data is transmitted over the air so that it can be picked up via cable or OTA antenna (as opposed to TiVO that uses the phone lines to update it's program listings). It is especially nice for folks like myself who do not subscribe to a cable service but want to have a tv guide. In my specific case I have a DVR that uses the service so when I record programs it will store them with their name and a description of the show.

As of about July 3rd I stopped receiving the information so my tv guide does not update anymore. My next step will be to give Rick Finne a call over at WILL to see if anything changed on their end but I wanted to see what I could find out on the forum first. I still receive channel 12 so it's not as simple as my antenna not pulling in the channel anymore. All the tests I run with my DVR seem to point towards the station not sending out the information anymore. But I'm by no means an expert at this either.

Thanks!

Does anyone in the area own a TV, DVR, or DVD recorder that uses the Gemstar TV Guide On Screen System? ... As of about July 3rd I stopped receiving the information so my tv guide does not update anymore.


I am happy to confirm our unhappy experience - I came to AVS today to post a similar message. My Sony KDS-R60XBR2 has TVGOS v9, and I too lost service early this month.

TVGOS has been stable on Insight cable since I bought my set last fall. I wasted some time verifying that Insight is not the problem (TVGOS competes with their own STB service). I switched from cable to antenna, confirmed that my OTA WILL-TV12 signal was good enough to receive closed captions (CC uses similar VBI technology as TVGOS), and reprogrammed TVGOS. Nothing doing - literally, it won't even give me the time of day. So I've caught up with you.

I wrote will-tv@uiuc.edu and asked if there were any issues with TVGOS, but have not received a reply. Why don't you make that call to engineering? Tell them a confirming report already exists somewhere in their e-mail system (scan for "Gemstar" in subject).

Sorry to hear about your wowes....but, boy am I glad to hear from another person in the area with the same problem. It seems I've also wasted time with my manufacturers, Sony and Pioneer, verifying that they weren't the problem.

I actually spoke Rick yesterday afternoon. He confirmed they did in fact make a change exactly when my listings stopped updating earlier this month. He said they replaced the analog encoder with a new digital encoder. I'm hardly an expert with the technology involved in me getting my tv guide listings but I told him that I had heard that the hardware products weren't capable of receiving the listings digitally. He said that the Gemstar data is being transformed into analog before it's actually transmitted (or some lingo to that effect) so that by the time it gets to my DVR it should look the same as it did before.

He said I was the only person in the area to call and if there was a problem on his end he would have expected to receive many more calls than just myself. So he basically implied it was a problem on my end. I explained that I had two products with the Gemstar TV Guide On Screen system (my tv as well as my dvr) and told him they both stopped updating at the same time. Unfortunately, he was still pretty confident that he would have heard more people complain if the problem was on his end.

I called him again today but this time left a message. I told him there were others on internet forums with the same problem around the area. I feel like I had a pretty good repore with him yesterday so I think once he knows others in the area have the same issue he will hopefully address it.


I am happy to confirm our unhappy experience - I came to AVS today to post a similar message. My Sony KDS-R60XBR2 has TVGOS v9, and I too lost service early this month.

TVGOS has been stable on Insight cable since I bought my set last fall. I wasted some time verifying that Insight is not the problem (TVGOS competes with their own STB service). I switched from cable to antenna, confirmed that my OTA WILL-TV12 signal was good enough to receive closed captions (CC uses similar VBI technology as TVGOS), and reprogrammed TVGOS. Nothing doing - literally, it won't even give me the time of day. So I've caught up with you.

I wrote will-tv@uiuc.edu and asked if there were any issues with TVGOS, but have not received a reply. Why don't you make that call to engineering? Tell them a confirming report already exists somewhere in their e-mail system (scan for "Gemstar" in subject).