That antenna should allow you to get all the locals, as long as it is elevated sufficiently. You will need a rotor to get WCCU (FOX) though since it's tower would be in the opposite direction of all the others from you (N-NNE).

Thanks for your answer. One more general question. Is it possible to split the antenna connection? I am assuming it is but am curious what specific equipment I might need to split the signal between the TV and my Media Center tuner (the location from antenna to splitter would be about 50 ft with the distance between the TV and MC tuner about 10-15 ft. We have about the same run (without a splitter) from antenna to TV now (live near Florida and Vine in Urbana) and can pull in just about everything. When the antenna was hooked directly to our DTV HD20 we could only pull 3 and 15 in reliably. When we bought our Samsung 52a550 TV we have gotten in everything. The only problem is dragging the laptop and tuner out to the living room and switching connections whenever I want to capture football games on FOX/NBC.

Also does anyone have a good idea of how much Good Vibes would charge to set up the antenna on the roof? We are considering paying them to fish our surround speaker wire and depending on cost would probably prefer they just do the antenna while they are there. (We currently have the antenna mentioned in my prior post, 10 feet of pole, and the mount. I wouldn't mind adding another 10-20 feet of pole if it would make a huge difference.)

I was eagerly awaiting the Feb 17th DTV switch, since WCIA would be moving to a better-for-me-VHF signal instead of UHF. Well, today the Senate has voted to push back the conversion to June 12th. :mad:

Anyone have any idea on what affect that has on the station re-assignments? Does this just simply push everything back to June? :mad:

I was eagerly awaiting the Feb 17th DTV switch, since WCIA would be moving to a better-for-me-VHF signal instead of UHF.

WCIA is NOT moving back to VHF - are you sure you aren't talking about WCFN-DT in Spfld, which IS moving to ch 13... :confused:

Early on, WCIA did want to move back to VHF, but several years ago decided to stay where they were. Changing to VHF would have certainly required a new antenna and maybe a new transmitter as well (or expensive modifications to the existing one), so their decision is understandable. I think it cost them well over $1 million for the first DTV conversion.

WCIA is NOT moving back to VHF - are you sure you aren't talking about WCFN-DT in Spfld, which IS moving to ch 13... :confused:

WCIA is NOT moving back to VHF - are you sure you aren't talking about WCFN-DT in Spfld, which IS moving to ch 13... :confused:

Yes, sorry, I meant WCFN-DT out of Springfield, which carries WCIA on a subchannel. The question still remains, if Washington pushes back the conversion date to June, can I expect that WCFN won't be moving to VHF 13 until then?

Seeing how the House Of Representatives just defeated the delay, sounds like you don't have to worry,

Anybody heard anything more about E* adding locals for Champaign/Springfield/
Decatur? Saw this over on Channel 3's website....

http://illinoishomepage.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9361&sid=d3eedd31a5333dcefd79632772551092

Mr. Manager,
Do you know if Dish Network plans on picking up locals HD for our market? I know you may not be able to give some answers because of contractual reasons, but I was wondering if you'd be able to give any insight.

Love your station!

Mitch

PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:33 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
It is my understanding that those contracts have been negotiated and they can pick up our HD signal whenever they are ready. I believe they have to make some equipment changes and those have not be completed.

The HD locals for the big four network stations are in the uplink tables for the new bird that has just moved into its orbit at 129. No telling how long before they become available though. Could be anywhere from a few weeks to several months.

According to this post (http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1962792&postcount=116) in this thread (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=143248) at www.dbstalk.com, we've been uplinked and it's just a matter of time before we go live. Woohoo!!

Don't get too excited. Just because those channels are listed in the uplink report does NOT mean that they are ready to go live at any second, only that there are placeholders for them. Some cities have had locals listed for many months before they became available. In addition, if they keep them on 129, those of us who do not have a dish already pointing at that sat. will have to either get a new dish or re-aim the wing dish we have pointed at 61.5.

Sometimes Dish will delay activating locals because of problems getting agreements with local stations. Sometimes because they want to delay the cost of installing of new dishes. One thing in our favor is competition with D*. If they feel that they are losing customers by the day, that could put us on the fast track. If I had to guess, I'd say sometime in March.

As I've seen no mention of it so far, I wanted to say we have not been getting OTA guide data for WCIA / WCFN for about a week now.
Mike

Is there a more certain plan for the future of WILL DT 12.1?
There was some talk a while back about PBSHD going away and what would replace it, but I have not heard anything for a while and the WILL site only mentions that it is currently the same as 12.2 and analog.

Well it's mostly the same as 12.2 and analog.
Did anyone else catch the other night when two different Soundstage episodes were airing? 12.1 had B.B. King while 12.2 had Foreigner.

I do hope they tweak their cropping / resizing. Some things are winding up window-boxed on 12.1.

Also, not to harp, but I swear many nights the Create / World switch doesn't happen at 6, and one night I don't think it happened at all.

Mike

According to this post (http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1962792&postcount=116) in this thread (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=143248) at www.dbstalk.com, we've been uplinked and it's just a matter of time before we go live. Woohoo!!

Would have been nice for the Super Bowl tomorrow!

Oh well, I'll keep my fingers crossed for NCAA BBall Tourney (but not hold my breath!)

I do hope they tweak their cropping / resizing. Some things are winding up window-boxed on 12.1.


I agree, 12.1 has had problems in this area for several weeks now. Most of the time they are putting a small black border around the entire picture, but today (right now) they are shrinking it all the way to 4:3 size with black borders. I wonder if they know about it.

As I've seen no mention of it so far, I wanted to say we have not been getting OTA guide data for WCIA / WCFN for about a week now.
Mike

I've noticed the same thing. I've got a DTVPal DVR, and it is a royal pain not to have titles or program descriptions for my recordings. Hope it is just due to tweaks being done to get ready for the digital switchover, since the PSIP data was displaying correctly before.

Is the superbowl going to have 5.1?

Hey about 7:00 last night (2/2) my OTA fox channel just disappeared and still has not come back. 3-1 CBS, 15-1 ABC and 17-1 NBC is coming in loud and clear.
Any ideas or is it just my system.

Hey about 7:00 last night (2/2) my OTA fox channel just disappeared and still has not come back. 3-1 CBS, 15-1 ABC and 17-1 NBC is coming in loud and clear.
Any ideas or is it just my system.

WRSP 55-1 came in fine while recording House and 24.

Don't get too excited. Just because those channels are listed in the uplink report does NOT mean that they are ready to go live at any second, only that there are placeholders for them. ...

I agree with you. But this is good news for us Central IL E* subscribers who are eagerly awaiting our locals in HD.

While it is totally true that this may mean that we're still weeks or even months away from actually getting them, it does mean that E* at least has plans to bring them to us "sooner" rather than "later". Note the quotes. On the other hand, there are markets where these locals show up on the uplink report and go live within days.

So here's to being optimistic! :)

A followup to my last post. It appears that we will be getting our locals in HD via Dish Network very soon!! :D :)

"HD Locals Market Launches: Launching on February 18th: Cedar Rapids, IA; Champaign, IL; Dayton, OH; Fresno, CA; New Orleans, LA; Toledo OH. Launching February 25th Charleston, SC; Colorado Springs, CO; El Paso, TX; Savahhah, GA; Tallahasse, FL; Tri Cities, TN/VA."

Source: http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-network-forum/163749-satelliteguys-live-recap-dish-retailer-chat-2-4-09-a.html#post1690663

This IS good news.:D However, they are currently only showing the HD local uplinks to 129. So unless they mirror them to 61.5 before the 18th, it looks like I'm going to have to re-aim my wing dish to get them. Getting up on the roof in the dead of winter is not my idea of how to spend a pleasant weekend.:(

This IS good news.:D However, they are currently only showing the HD local uplinks to 129. So unless they mirror them to 61.5 before the 18th, it looks like I'm going to have to re-aim my wing dish to get them. Getting up on the roof in the dead of winter is not my idea of how to spend a pleasant weekend.:(

No mirroring on 61.5. There is no transponder space. E* is moving E1 from 148W to 77W to provide HD locals on the eastern arc after Ciel 2 is fully operational at 129W. E5, the current occupant at 129W is moving to 148W to serve as a placeholder for that slot. Expect to see only the largest eastern population DMAs (e.g. NY, Chicago, Atlanta, etc.) have mirrored uplinks on both arcs.

I suppose Comcast customers have read the notice from Comcast that says, among other things, that the HD package (HDNet and HDNet Movies) will be phased out. HDNet will remain (at no charge) but HDNet Movies will not be available at any price.

I know that Comcast nationwide seldom carries any HDNet channels, but I was encouraged by this press release:

HDNet And HDNet Movies Announce Affiliation Agreement with Comcast (www.hd.net/pressrelease.html?2008-09-04-01.html)

At the moment, HDNet Movies is my only source for commercial free, uncut, uncensored, original-format movies. Rather than drop the HD package, I was hoping they would add something like TCM or Mojo (R.I.P.).

I posted the reference above in a Comcast-HDTV thread on the forum to see if this has happened anywhere else. I write here to find out if I will be the only local customer to complain about the loss of HDNet Movies.

I've got comcast hd, last night channel 926 TBS HD went blank, no picture, sound, or error message. Still the same today. All other channels are fine. Anyone else having the same problem? I've got the DCH 3200 cable box. Located in Springfield.

I've got comcast hd, last night channel 926 TBS HD went blank, no picture, sound, or error message. Still the same today. All other channels are fine. Anyone else having the same problem? I've got the DCH 3200 cable box. Located in Springfield.
Here in Champaign-Urbana we were having the same problem with TBS HD. I think it started coming in OK late in the evening.

I am really disappointed that Comcast is not adding any new channels. They are only replacing HD Net Movie Channel with MLB HD. I see nothing about adding any additional channels.

And WILL-TV isn't going anywhere.

http://www.news-gazette.com/entertainment/2009/02/12/some_area_stations_ending_analog_broadcasts_by_feb_17

I am really disappointed that Comcast is not adding any new channels. They are only replacing HD Net Movie Channel with MLB HD. I see nothing about adding any additional channels.
Yeah I'd like to see a few more HD channels too. I saw the weather channel in HD the other day on someone's satellite system, that was pretty cool. :) I'm still trying to figure out what package you need to be on to get Speed, FX, and Fox News HD. Those are all blank on my system but I get all the other ones. Maybe those are on the special HD tier that HD Net is in?

Did anyone notice that Fox (27) finally bumped up their audio to where everyone else is? I noticed it watching Terminator Sarah Connor chronicles on Friday night. I don't have to crank the volume up half way anymore on the TV. :)

Yeah I'd like to see a few more HD channels too. I saw the weather channel in HD the other day on someone's satellite system, that was pretty cool. :) I'm still trying to figure out what package you need to be on to get Speed, FX, and Fox News HD. Those are all blank on my system but I get all the other ones. Maybe those are on the special HD tier that HD Net is in?
I am getting Speed, FX, and Fox News HD without having HD Net channel. I just assumed these were part of the High Definition TV package with all the other channels except NFL, HD Net, and premium channels. You might check with Comcast customer service about that. Good luck in getting straight answers from anyone, though.

Just a quick note on a few things with WRSP, WBUI, and WCCU

WRSP - Back in December 55.1 was off the air for several weeks. This was because we lost the transmitter tube. After replacing it and getting things up again, turns out the tube was defective because it died shortly thereafter (cracked in half).

Things have been fine with the replacement.

WCCU - I have had issues from the start with WCCU's audio being low and have recently found a fix for it. Unfortunately buying new equipment isn't always an option, at least to those who are outside of engineering, so we had to find a fix using equipment we already had on hand. There was a short period where the network audio was at a low volume while local volume was off but we should have it in line. If anyone is noticing any issues with WCCU's audio levels please let me know. Because it's so remotely located from our studio , our monitoring of it's signal isn't exactly top notch.

WBUI - We've made adjustments to the signal to provide 5.1 audio from the network when it's provided though not all shows have 5.1 audio. Also we plan to drop 23.2 as soon as we are sure we've gotten any cable networks who are using it off of it.
--
Josh Miller
WRSP WCCU WBUI Engineering

My preferred way of receiving local HDTV signals would be to get them over cable without a cable box. Until recently as a Comcast customer I have been able to do this. I subscribe to a Basic package that gives the locals and a few others for 14 dollars a month. I have also had Direct TV since 1997 and I have an old dish and old receiver which I only have connected to one of my four televisions.

I have been satisfied with the set-up.

I have been waiting to upgrade my dish to HD until Direct comes out with the TIVO HD dvr which does not to my knowledge have as yet a release date. I am doing so because I am trying to leverage the fact that I do not have a contract, and no doubt it would be in my benefit to get as good a deal for committing to a new contract as I can when I do all my upgrades at once.

In the last ten days to two weeks, Comcast has stopped sending local HDTV signals in the clear except for Fox 55 on 91.3.

I do not want to go to the added expense of upgrading my cable to a digital package which requires a box for each television, nor do I want to pay for added programming that I do not watch much of on my other televisions and which I have on my satellite connected television.

I guess my question is, does anyone think that HDTV will be delivered over cable any other way other than a set top box.

Has Comcast dropping local HDTV signals in the clear affected anyone else?

WBUI - We've made adjustments to the signal to provide 5.1 audio from the network when it's provided though not all shows have 5.1 audio. Also we plan to drop 23.2 as soon as we are sure we've gotten any cable networks who are using it off of it.Thanks for the update, Josh.

Does this mean that DirecTV will be passing the HD signal soon? Or will they be downrezzing it before delivering it to us?

I'm in a somewhat similar situation to albie. We've been with DirecTV for almost 3 years now and have been out of contract for the past 5 months (we were one of the first with the DTV HD-DVR in Oct '06.) When the networks here were being stubborn with DNS waivers, we made the necessary adjustments in order to receive the networks in HD. We are truly moving in June but I know that DTV's mover's connection comes with a 1 year commitment. We are also wanting to acquire another HD-DVR. I am considering making the necessary adjustments back to local networks so that I can get

Have all of the issues with locals been resolved? What is available here? CBS/ABC/NBC/FOX? CW or PBS? (I've gotten spoiled with WTTW being in HD off the sat.) I just wish the news here (get WCIA and ABC OTA) would get on the ball and broadcast with a more polished feel (and in HD.) :)

Just a quick note on a few things with WRSP, WBUI, and WCCU

WCCU - I have had issues from the start with WCCU's audio being low and have recently found a fix for it.

--
Josh Miller
WRSP WCCU WBUI Engineering

I noticed tonight that the volume is much louder, thanks for the fix.:)

your still having audio problems on WBUI, i sent an email to swashburn with details but no reply.

-for the last two weeks you have only been sending 5.0 audio out during network, but that maybe because the network doesn't send the LFE channel, although i find that hard to believe.
>AC3 Audio: 3/2 Channels (L, C, R, SL, SR), 48.0 kHz, 448 kbps.

-there have also been lip synch issues a few nights

-and on feb 10th, the whole night the transport stream had timestamp gaps which appeared to be an extra frame added; i haven't recorded since then so i can't tell you if they are still there in the signal.

here is a sample:
Sequence Frame 4021(10-P) / Time 0:02:18 :
AudioWarning: Timestamp gap of 0.064000 sec. ending at file offset 234225658


-and finally, you mention providing 5.1 audio, but this always seemed to be the case for WBUI. i don't have an old ep to go check, but i do have logs that clearly show a 5.1 feed coming from WBUI OTA. i guess it is possible it was a fake 5.1 feed wrapper around 2.0 if you were using the networks stereo feed.

looking forward to you dropping that sub channel! ;)

WBUI - We've made adjustments to the signal to provide 5.1 audio from the network when it's provided though not all shows have 5.1 audio. Also we plan to drop 23.2 as soon as we are sure we've gotten any cable networks who are using it off of it.
--
Josh Miller
WRSP WCCU WBUI Engineering

Well, WAND is gone, and looks like WBUI just went out as well. WICD and WCCU are playing videos on hooking up converter boxes.


ETA: Y ahora en Espanol!

As of this morning I still have only the SD channels. :(

Well, today is supposedly the day for those of us in Central Illinois with Dish Network who are awaiting our locals in HD.

I checked this morning and my locals are exactly the same as it was yesterday, so no HD locals yet. But I'm told by some Dish-savvy folks that most of these programming changes usually happen in the afternoon. I would have guessed that they'd do it overnight but that appears to not be the normal way they do things. So be sure to check your programming guide tonight to see if we've got them! Fingers crossed! :)

And remember, if/when we do get them, if you use a DVR, you might need to redo your program timers to re-setup your network shows to be recorded via HD. I don't know if it will automatically switch them from the SD to the HD feed.

I checked Dish's site and the local station page it shows 4 hd channels for Champaign starting at 5250 for WICS, 5251 for WCIA, 5252 for WAND and 5253 for for WRSP. I am at work and haven't had a chance to check and see if they are actually up.

I checked Dish's site and the local station page it shows 4 hd channels for Champaign starting at 5250 for WICS, 5251 for WCIA, 5252 for WAND and 5253 for for WRSP. I am at work and haven't had a chance to check and see if they are actually up.

Good idea! :D

That's excellent news. I'd think this means that it really is pretty much a done deal that we'll have our HD locals very soon, if they're not already up.

Thanks for the update, Josh.

Does this mean that DirecTV will be passing the HD signal soon? Or will they be downrezzing it before delivering it to us?

I'm not sure what Direct's plans are as far as downrezzing but they have recently installed a ton of new equipment for HD within the last few months.

-and finally, you mention providing 5.1 audio, but this always seemed to be the case for WBUI. i don't have an old ep to go check, but i do have logs that clearly show a 5.1 feed coming from WBUI OTA. i guess it is possible it was a fake 5.1 feed wrapper around 2.0 if you were using the networks stereo feed.


That's more or less what we had been doing since the move to Springfield. He have an audio processing unit from TC Electronic that would take the two channel sound and remix it into 5.1 Surround. This would remix the day time shows as well as network programming.

12:15 pm. Dropped in on lunch and still no Champaign HD. I will check again when I get home.

12:15 pm. Dropped in on lunch and still no Champaign HD. I will check again when I get home.

FYI - info from this site:

SatelliteGuys.US - Subscription 129°W (http://www.satelliteguys.us/thelist/index.php?search=dn129&sub=true&sort=TP&order=)

5250 WICS (20) MPEG4 HD 129�W 07 8PSK (2/3) Spotbeam ?? Springfield, IL Available

5251 WCIA (3) MPEG4 HD 129�W 07 8PSK (2/3) Spotbeam ?? Champaign, IL Available

5252 WAND (17) MPEG4 HD 129�W 07 8PSK (2/3) Spotbeam ?? Decatur, IL Available

5253 WRSP (55) MPEG4 HD 129�W 07 8PSK (2/3) Spotbeam ?? Springfield, IL Available

We'll see. I can't confirm yet.

Cool. From that page, it looks like that as of 1:53PM they should all be available.

Update: There's a post over on satelliteguys.us that appears to confirm that our locals are up and running on Dish in HD. A poster there says that he has them. Yay!

I can confirm it, I'm at home looking at it right now. WRSP, WAND, WCIA, and WICS are all up and running in HD via DishNetwork. :cool:

PQ looks great. Flipping back and forth between the OTA WRSP HD signal and the Dish, I can't tell any difference. :)

I can see it! Wow! I would like to thank the academy......:)

woot! Criminal Minds in HD on Dish! No more fscking with the damned rotor on the roof or the pitiful WAND signal in east Urbana.

Has anybody notice the picture on channel 3 HD flickers every once in a while since E* added it to the line up? I have not seen it on any of the other local HD channels yet. Not sure if it is the station or an issue with my Vip 722. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

Has anybody notice the picture on channel 3 HD flickers every once in a while since E* added it to the line up? I have not seen it on any of the other local HD channels yet. Not sure if it is the station or an issue with my Vip 722. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

Yes. I noticed it last night while watching Survivor on WCIA HD 3. The picture was stuttering. Especially noticeable when they'd pan a shot - it was jerky and not smooth. It was acting very much like there was some bit of equipment somewhere that wasn't quite able to keep up with the HD bandwidth. There were also some lip sync problems too, though those seemed to get better as the program went on. I also have a Vip 722.

It wasn't unwatchable (for as watchable as Survivor is anyway), but it definitely was a little bit annoying.

I checked a couple of other channels, both local & national HD, and they seemed fine.

I've posted a message over on WCIA's 'Station Manager' forum to see if they had any ideas.

Yes. I noticed it last night while watching Survivor on WCIA HD 3. The picture was stuttering. Especially noticeable when they'd pan a shot - it was jerky and not smooth. It was acting very much like there was some bit of equipment somewhere that wasn't quite able to keep up with the HD bandwidth. There were also some lip sync problems too, though those seemed to get better as the program went on. I also have a Vip 722.

It wasn't unwatchable (for as watchable as Survivor is anyway), but it definitely was a little bit annoying.

I checked a couple of other channels, both local & national HD, and they seemed fine.

I've posted a message over on WCIA's 'Station Manager' forum to see if they had any ideas.

Thanks, looking forward to the response.

It would seem that on Friday, early i'm guessing, that WAND 17.1, WBUI 23.1, and WRSP 55.1 all changed frequencies. I tune all channels OTA on a series 3 TIVO and now there are 2 channels for each of them with the same channel numbers. The old ones will not tune now but have all of the tv guide data. The new ones will tune but there is no guide data at all. I have done everything on the tivo I can but no data as of now. Does anyone know if it will actually fill in any time hopefully before Monday? Any info will help greatly.

Thanks, Jeff.

It would seem that on Friday, early i'm guessing, that WAND 17.1, WBUI 23.1, and WRSP 55.1 all changed frequencies. I tune all channels OTA on a series 3 TIVO and now there are 2 channels for each of them with the same channel numbers. The old ones will not tune now but have all of the tv guide data. The new ones will tune but there is no guide data at all. I have done everything on the tivo I can but no data as of now. Does anyone know if it will actually fill in any time hopefully before Monday? Any info will help greatly.

Thanks, Jeff.

Interesting. None of those channels appear to have changed in any way for me. I can get them via Dish now, but I still have my OTA antenna hooked up. I just checked, and they're the same channels today as they were 6 months ago. Not sure why your Tivo is reading them differently! :confused:

For the past 3 days or so, I have no picture on 17.1, 17.2, and 20.1 on my Directv HR 20 & 21. I am getting a strong signal on all three, however no picture or sound. I have tried rebooting the units, taking the ota channels out and adding them back in, but still have the same problem. All my other local .1 stations are coming in fine. 17.2 is the only one I am really needing because directv doesn't give us that one. Any idea engineers??

For the past 3 days or so, I have no picture on 17.1, 17.2, and 20.1 on my Directv HR 20 & 21. I am getting a strong signal on all three, however no picture or sound. I have tried rebooting the units, taking the ota channels out and adding them back in, but still have the same problem. All my other local .1 stations are coming in fine. 17.2 is the only one I am really needing because directv doesn't give us that one. Any idea engineers??I noticed the same thing today on my HR-20. I re-did the OTA setup and got all of them back except 17.2. It still does not come in.

Sounds like I am not the only one with issues. I am actually receiving them all fine but with no guide data for 17.1, 23.1 and 55.1, I can't record. I have repeated guided setup to no avail. I just hope it is there come Monday night.

I spent a painful 36 minutes on the phone with DirecTV this evening. Most of that was spent just getting the CSR to understand that it's an OTA channel that is the problem not a sat. channel. Finally, after a long hold they had me delete all the locals and reinitialise. Surprise, no help.

They then said that the ""Department" she spoke to told her it might take a bit for the information to come through due to the "recent changes". I asked how long "a bit" was. She said to wait a week... Then asked if there was anything else she could do for me. I said yes, I'd like my bill prorated so that I'm not charged until they have things fixed. She said she could not do that now because their systems were undergoing maintanence... I should call bak in a few hours.

I did tell her others were reporting the same problem in the area.

I'd suggest everyone call and ask that they prorate your bill until you can use your reciever as it is supposed to work...

Just went to dbstalk.com and it looks like this problem is happening throughout the country. No sure fix yet. Stay tuned.

Well I can WICS-DT 20.1, and WCIA-DT 3.1 to the list too. It appears that a majority of the stations that terminated the analog switched the frequencies of their digital channels, causing problems for everyone depending on the equipment you have. My Sony DHG-HDD250 dvr is unaffected but the tivo has duplicate channels of 3.1 17.1 20.1 23.1 and 55.1 as of this morning. I removed the old ones from the channel list, and all stations come in fine, just "to be announced" on the guide, which is not helpful when you want to record. Hopefully they will get it straightened out soon.

OK, I got the jist of what has happened. On tivo forums I found that most of the 1800 stations nationally switched instead of waiting and the stations themselves have changed frequencies in most areas for better efficiency. Depending on your hardware, the problems will vary. With tivo, we just have to wait until their database of stations is updated to get correct guide data. It could be early or late this coming week.....

Well, I have another problem..I can only get HD off of the 61.5 bird. My 129 is blocked by trees - no way around it. I spoke to tech support at DISH and they have no plans at this time to mirror the locals on 61.5. DEPRESSING!! Since I live in Danville I have a very hard time getting anything other than WICD ota. I hope enough people have this problem so that they will have to do something about it.

Actually, about 1/3 of stations nationwide have shut off analog broadcasts. In Champaign though, none of the digital stations that I know of have changed their frequency. I think the only station that is supposed to change is WCFN, but the haven't yet.

Well, I have another problem..I can only get HD off of the 61.5 bird. My 129 is blocked by trees - no way around it. I spoke to tech support at DISH and they have no plans at this time to mirror the locals on 61.5. DEPRESSING!! Since I live in Danville I have a very hard time getting anything other than WICD ota. I hope enough people have this problem so that they will have to do something about it.

I feel for you, but I wouldn't get my hopes up. 129 covers most of the US, and those on the east coast that are out of range are covered by the eastern arc sats. It does not make financial sense to use the valuable bandwidth on 61.5 to mirror spot-beamed locals just for the small percentage of people with line-of-sight problems. They can make a lot more money using it for international channels.

I'll have to reposition my wing dish from 61.5 to 129 as well, but I think I'm far away enough from the tress to clear them. We shall see.

I noticed the same thing today on my HR-20. I re-did the OTA setup and got all of them back except 17.2. It still does not come in.

Same thing here, on both of my HR20-100's. I didn't try a TV or converter box to see if 17.2 is gone there also - they have had problems with it in the past, so it might not be a problem on the HR20.

Interestingly enough, one of my HR20's was tuned to 20-1 & has been working fine non-stop right through the shut-off on Tuesday. I saw these posts over the weekend & when I changed to another one of the OTA's that shut off, (17-1, 23-1, etc) I then got SFS, even after changing it BACK to 20-1, which again, was working fine BEFORE changing the channel - wierd! :confused:

Same thing here, on both of my HR20-100's. I didn't try a TV or converter box to see if 17.2 is gone there also - they have had problems with it in the past, so it might not be a problem on the HR20.

Interestingly enough, one of my HR20's was tuned to 20-1 & has been working fine non-stop right through the shut-off on Tuesday. I saw these posts over the weekend & when I changed to another one of the OTA's that shut off, (17-1, 23-1, etc) I then got SFS, even after changing it BACK to 20-1, which again, was working fine BEFORE changing the channel - wierd! :confused:
I didn't reboot today, but checked when I got home for lunch and 17.1 and 20.1 were back, but no 17.2 yet.

Well, I have another problem..I can only get HD off of the 61.5 bird. My 129 is blocked by trees - no way around it. I spoke to tech support at DISH and they have no plans at this time to mirror the locals on 61.5. DEPRESSING!! Since I live in Danville I have a very hard time getting anything other than WICD ota. I hope enough people have this problem so that they will have to do something about it.

If you can get 110 and 119, can't you find a spot where you can also point at 129 with a separate dish? Move dish to other side of tree line, move dish back from tree line to see over the top, mount dish at higher elevation, cut top of tree, etc.?

ok, lets clarify

THIS IS NOT A LOCAL STATION PROBLEM
THIS IS NOT A FREQUENCY CHANGE PROBLEM
THIS IS A SAT PROBLEM AND THEY KNOW ABOUT IT

the chief problem is that changes were made last minute, and the sat companies just didn't have time to adjust. it is partly the sat companies fault for delaying their updates, which is common in small markets like ours, partly the locals fault because they were often shoddy on their DTV broadcasts so the sat company chose to keep using the more reliable analog broadcast till the end, and partly the gov't for change the rules at the last minute.

on Feb 17, the original DTV transition date, most of our locals switched off primary broadcasting on their analog transmission and now are ONLY broadcasting on their DTV OTA channel. the FCC mandated that one analog channel remained, so say WCIA is still there.

also, most stations are broadcasting a public service message, none as nightlight/nitelite service on their old analog channel and will do so for several weeks. this helps people who haven't upgraded to inform them what to do. put up the old rabbit ears and tune to the old analog channel for say WICD and take a look if you want.

i repeat, ABSOLUTELY NONE of the local DTV stations changed channels or frequencies from the ones they were using for many years before. a couple of them will in the FUTURE, but none of them have now.

the reasons are mostly financial. the stations were paying a huge cost to run both transmissions so they opted to turn off the analog early. while most the stations had the option to change their DTV frequency, they chose not to again becaue of cost; they already had the gear and setup for their current DTV channel and changing would cost money. some stations will however change their channel later on, most are just moving their DTV channel back to their old analog channel, in some cases the old DTV channel is going away, like WEEK, because it is too high up.

Josh> your WBUI feed still has some audio issues, although some are fixed

the LFE channel is there now, so you got the cabling worked out:
AC3 Audio: 3/2 Channels (L, C, R, SL, SR) + LFE, 48.0 kHz, 448 kbps.
Dialog Normalization: -27.0 dB, Center Mix Level: -3.0 dB, Surround Mix Level: -3.0 dB


but the audio timestamp gaps are still there which is causing serious lip-sync issues. in a one hour broadcast, for example this monday's gossip girl, it was off a total of: 2.432000 seconds of audio timestamp gaps. i'm not an audio tech guy but the log says frequent gaps and ac3 packet errors are in the transport stream, here is an example:

Sequence Frame 97082(8-P) / Time 0:57:58 :
AudioError: Corrupted AC3 frame of 1790 payload bytes at file offset 6245353262

Sequence Frame 97094(8-P) / Time 0:57:58 :
AudioWarning: Timestamp gap of 0.032000 sec. ending at file offset 6246001674

it bassically causes little hicups and sync drift

this is a slight improvement from last week when the gaps were 0.064000 sec. i've never seen anything like this before so i don't know what the problem could be.

That's more or less what we had been doing since the move to Springfield. He have an audio processing unit from TC Electronic that would take the two channel sound and remix it into 5.1 Surround. This would remix the day time shows as well as network programming.

ok, lets clarify

THIS IS NOT A LOCAL STATION PROBLEM
THIS IS NOT A FREQUENCY CHANGE PROBLEM
THIS IS A SAT PROBLEM AND THEY KNOW ABOUT IT

the chief problem is that changes were made last minute, and the sat companies just didn't have time to adjust. it is partly the sat companies fault for delaying their updates, which is common in small markets like ours, partly the locals fault because they were often shoddy on their DTV broadcasts so the sat company chose to keep using the more reliable analog broadcast till the end, and partly the gov't for change the rules at the last minute.

on Feb 17, the original DTV transition date, most of our locals switched off primary broadcasting on their analog transmission and now are ONLY broadcasting on their DTV OTA channel. the FCC mandated that one analog channel remained, so say WCIA is still there.

also, most stations are broadcasting a public service message, none as nightlight/nitelite service on their old analog channel and will do so for several weeks. this helps people who haven't upgraded to inform them what to do. put up the old rabbit ears and tune to the old analog channel for say WICD and take a look if you want.

i repeat, ABSOLUTELY NONE of the local DTV stations changed channels or frequencies from the ones they were using for many years before. a couple of them will in the FUTURE, but none of them have now.

the reasons are mostly financial. the stations were paying a huge cost to run both transmissions so they opted to turn off the analog early. while most the stations had the option to change their DTV frequency, they chose not to again becaue of cost; they already had the gear and setup for their current DTV channel and changing would cost money. some stations will however change their channel later on, most are just moving their DTV channel back to their old analog channel, in some cases the old DTV channel is going away, like WEEK, because it is too high up.


Thank you for the info, for my basic understanding only, could you explain what happened? My particular problem is tivo only, I don't have any dish services anymore. I have had 2 hd tivos for close to 3 years now, and only use them for OTA. On 2-20-09 both of them showed 2 copies of the same channels 3.1, 17.1, 19.1, 20.1, 23.1, 25.1, 31.1, and 55.1. Only 43.1 is unaffected. All duplicates show same channel numbers but different frequencies. Example WAND-DT 17.1 ATSC frequency 17, now ATSC frequency 18. It is the same for all channels. This info is from the tivo channel editor. I called tivo support because I haven't had guide data for 6 days now. The guide is only on the old frequency channels, which do not tune anymore. The tivo tech was helpful and seemed knowledgeable. He said I am not the first to have this problem and he would report it to Tribune Media, which handles data services such as tivo. If the stations have indeed not switched then what would cause this problem. It is the only problem I have ever had and curiously it occurred right after the big "switch" which ironically I told my wife would not affect us.:eek: Any info will be much appreciated. Thanks.

See how much less confusing this is since congress postponed the transition! :)

:rolleyes:

To JFKLS1, your problem lies with Tivo's service, and has nothing to do with either Dish Network, DirectTV, or the stations themselves. As the other poster says. And as the Tivo Tech support said, I'd bet that the problem lies in wherever Tivo gets their guide info, which they say is Tribune Media. Still, you pay Tivo to provide that guide data, so IMHO it's their problem to fix.

But since we haven't seen a plethora of other Central Illinois Tivo users here complaining, it might just be something corrupt in your Tivo. Have you checked dedicated Tivo forums to see if you can find anyone else with the problem? If you can't, then it's probably just your Tivo that's having problems.

It's been a couple of years since I've had a Tivo, but I do know that I once had a similar problem. No, there was not DTV switch, but my Tivo's guide data just suddenly was messed up one day. It didn't resolve itself, even after forcing data updates. I solved it by 'moving' the Tivo. I told the Tivo it was somewhere else in it's setup, rather than here. That forced it to download new guide data. Once that was done, I 'moved' it back to here. It re-updated the guide data to our area, and that solved the problem.

I have no idea if it will work for you, but it's an idea.

For the record, Dish Network had no problems with the "transition". In fact, quite the opposite. They just (finally) brought our locals online in HD, as mentioned in this very thread. They're working perfectly. And a friend who subscribes to DirectTV w/locals also says that he sees absolutely no changes or interruptions in his locals service. So from what I can tell, neither Dish nor DirectTV got caught off guard with the DTV "transition" (or lack thereof). At least not here in Central Illinois.

. . . while most the stations had the option to change their DTV frequency, they chose not to again becaue of cost; they already had the gear and setup for their current DTV channel and changing would cost money. . .

That's not completely accurate. Some stations didn't move because the FCC told them they couldn't. Case in point, WCFN.

They were/are scheduled to move from UHF 53 to VHF 13. They didn't move because the FCC told them they couldn't. According to the station manager, they have to continue broadcasting on 53 because if they move to 13, they'd interfere with other channels in the area that weren't ready to switch. WCFN has invested the money to switch and is completely ready. But they can't because some other station (300 miles away - in Jefferson City,MO) isn't ready to transition to their new channel. :rolleyes:

So there's more than just money. There's a domino-effect with some of these stations.

Thanks for the help BigStig, I have repeated setup, changing zip codes and redownloading data to no avail. It looks to be Tribune Media, according to the tivo tech. I do want directv but living in Normal, can't get the Champaign, Springfield locals, which I prefer to the Peoria ones. By the power of grayskull I will get this resolved.....:)

I do want directv but living in Normal, can't get the Champaign, Springfield locals, which I prefer to the Peoria ones.

So, just "move" your account address to one in the C/D/S market after you get it installed - problem nicely solved... ;) ;)

But they can't because some other station (300 miles away - in Jefferson City,MO) isn't ready to transition to their new channel. :rolleyes:

Really? I'd have assumed the cause of the delay was WPXS-13 in Mount Vernon, IL. Much closer than KRCG...

- Trip

Really? I'd have assumed the cause of the delay was WPXS-13 in Mount Vernon, IL. Much closer than KRCG...

- Trip
Yes. I just remember the one in JefCity because they're not switching until 6/12/09. He mentioned WILL. Edit: And also yes about WPXS. In another post, further down in their forum, he mentions a station in Mt. Vernon is causing problems too. That must be WPXS.

From 'rhamilton' (the station manager) from WCIA/WCFN's forum...(http://illinoishomepage.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9701).

"...we have to leave WCFN on half power digital and stay on our analog because WILL is not turning off their analog on February 17, 2009. Evidently the FCC believes our full power digital signal on WCFN Ch 13 will interfere with WILL and a CBS station (CH 13) in Jefferson City, MO., also a low power station (CH 13) in Mt. Vernon, IL. Hard for me to believe those facts but that is the law and we cannot switch WCFN over to full power digital. Since we are already operating at 100% digital on WCIA we are just keeping our analog on both WCIA and WCFN until the stations above switch and we are allowed to have both of our stations 100% digital. As of now the station in Jefferson City is planning on staying with their analog until June 12, 2009 (but that could change) and WILL is going to wait until the end of March to make any decisions. Nothing changes with WCIA as we are already 100% and you get the plus of watching the analog a little longer (if that is a plus)..."

I hate to break it to him, but WPXS is not a low-powered station. It's a full-powered 316 kW analog, whose coverage contour very clearly overlaps with WCFN-DT 13's contour.

A lot of FCC arguments are full of it (including, I think, the KRCG argument), but not the WPXS one.

- Trip

Can someone explain to me why D* has the CW and PBS Champaign stations listed as HD when you can tell that they aren't? I had no problems when I was living in Chicago getting WGN/NW in HD when listed as such and PBS in HD when listed as such.

And maybe one of the technical people can answer this...why is our local ABC affiliate so lazy when it comes to shows like Good Morning America being in HD? Is it really that hard to pass through the HD feed from New York and then switch over to their ancient SD equipment for local weather? Why does the GMA audience have to suffer with pillarboxed programming...at that point just leave it with New York and forget the local forecast.

Edit: I stand corrected when talking about our local ABC affiliate. I noticed tonight during the storms that when switching to OTA, channel 15 had their overlays on top of the HD signal. So what I thought was a case of a small town operation really had me baffled. How in the heck does channel 20 (I'm assuming Springfield?), a station in the state capital either have a lack of equipment or sheer laziness when this mom and pop size operation in Champaign does it right?

Can someone explain to me why D* has the CW and PBS Champaign stations listed as HD when you can tell that they aren't?

Where DOES D* say they ARE in HD? It sure is NOT on D* own website & never has yet.

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/packProg/localChannels.jsp?assetId=900018

Put in any zip code in our market & it quite clearly tells you that ONLY the big 4 are currently in HD here.

Maybe you are confused by the fact that while the rest of our stations are NOT in HD, they ARE, in fact, in MPEG4 Ka - but ONLY in SD. D* is transitioning all 72.5 local markets such as ours all onto MPEG4, so that is why ALL of our locals are on Ka. Eventually, we're supposed to be getting CW & at least 1 PBS affiliate in HD, but even Chicago JUST got their PBS in HD back in December, so even THEY had to wait, too. (I know this for a fact, since I get them myself... ;) )

I had no problems when I was living in Chicago getting WGN/NW in HD when listed as such and PBS in HD when listed as such.

(what IS /NW anyway???)

Guess what - you ain't in Chicago anymore; unfortunately, things take longer south of I80. ;) :D
I'm actually amazed we got ANY locals in HD already - & BOTH on D* & E* within 6 months of each other! (E* JUST lit up our big 4 locals last week) Do you realize that NEITHER DBS provider had even SD locals down here until about 2-3 years ago, so we're actually making better progress than usual.

Speaking of "full of it"...


From 'rhamilton' (the station manager) from WCIA/WCFN's forum...(http://illinoishomepage.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9701).

"...we have to leave WCFN on half power digital and stay on our analog because WILL is not turning off their analog on February 17, 2009. Evidently the FCC believes our full power digital signal on WCFN Ch 13 will interfere with WILL

Uh, does anyone ELSE around here realize the many OTHER full power analog/digital stations, that were/are ALREADY on adjacent channels - some on the very SAME TV stations - HELLO!!! Like, uh...

WSEC-TV/DT 14/15
WAND-TV/DT 17/18
WCIA-DT48 / WCFN-TV49
WSEC's Spfld translator ch 8 / WILL-DT 9
WBUI-TV/DT 23/22

Where DOES D* say they ARE in HD? It sure is NOT on D* own website & never has yet.

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/packProg/localChannels.jsp?assetId=900018

Put in any zip code in our market & it quite clearly tells you that ONLY the big 4 are currently in HD here.

Maybe you are confused by the fact that while the rest of our stations are NOT in HD, they ARE, in fact, in MPEG4 Ka - but ONLY in SD. D* is transitioning all 72.5 local markets such as ours all onto MPEG4, so that is why ALL of our locals are on Ka. Eventually, we're supposed to be getting CW & at least 1 PBS affiliate in HD, but even Chicago JUST got their PBS in HD back in December, so even THEY had to wait, too. (I know this for a fact, since I get them myself... ;) )

Actually the guide itself shows the stations with the little HD box. PBS's American Experience and CW's 90210 were the two that were listed as in HD when I checked but were stretch-o-vision.


(what IS /NW anyway???)

Guess what - you ain't in Chicago anymore; unfortunately, things take longer south of I80. ;) :D
I'm actually amazed we got ANY locals in HD already - & BOTH on D* & E* within 6 months of each other! (E* JUST lit up our big 4 locals last week) Do you realize that NEITHER DBS provider had even SD locals down here until about 2-3 years ago, so we're actually making better progress than usual.

I meant WGN/CW. Actually I never truly was in Chicago, though I can't wait to "get back there" after equipment upgrades and a mover's connection move. ;)

Speaking of "full of it"...

Uh, does anyone ELSE around here realize the many OTHER full power analog/digital stations, that were/are ALREADY on adjacent channels - some on the very SAME TV stations - HELLO!!! Like, uh...

WSEC-TV/DT 14/15
WAND-TV/DT 17/18
WCIA-DT48 / WCFN-TV49
WSEC's Spfld translator ch 8 / WILL-DT 9
WBUI-TV/DT 23/22

Co-located stations like that do not interfere with each other.

WCIA/WCFN might meet the distance requirement or something, I'll have to check. VHF (WILL-12/WCFN-13) has different distance requirements than UHF.

- Trip

17.2 is back up and running as of this morning on my Directv HR20 & 21. Just in time to watch the big glob of green on the doppler.

Can anyone direct me to a Champaign Comcast HD channel list? I'm in Chicago, but I'm always trying to help my Mom in Champaign find shows.

Thanks!

Can anyone direct me to a Champaign Comcast HD channel list? I'm in Chicago, but I'm always trying to help my Mom in Champaign find shows.

Thanks!
Here is a link to the comcast website that gives a list of Comcast channels available in Champaign-Urbana. I hope this helps.

http://www.comcast.com/Customers/Clu/ChannelLineup.ashx?lid=4ProgrammingChannelLineups&lpos=Nav

Thanks so much! Exactly what I needed.

Yes. I noticed it last night while watching Survivor on WCIA HD 3. The picture was stuttering. Especially noticeable when they'd pan a shot - it was jerky and not smooth. It was acting very much like there was some bit of equipment somewhere that wasn't quite able to keep up with the HD bandwidth. There were also some lip sync problems too, though those seemed to get better as the program went on. I also have a Vip 722.

It wasn't unwatchable (for as watchable as Survivor is anyway), but it definitely was a little bit annoying.

I checked a couple of other channels, both local & national HD, and they seemed fine.

I've posted a message over on WCIA's 'Station Manager' forum to see if they had any ideas.

Any answer on this problem ???

AFAIK, no, there has been no written response to my complaint. Surprisingly, the manager didn't answer my post over on WCIA/WCFN's forum. He's usually pretty good about that, so :confused:.

However, I didn't pursue the issue because the problem seems to have resolved itself. Something somewhere was adjusted and/or fixed sometime last week. The picture and sound quality of last week's Survivor was perfect. No stuttering. No lip sync delays. Performance was just as it is on any other HD channel I receive, whether OTA, other Dish HD locals, or Dish HD nationals. The couple of other CBS shows I've watched since then also looked fine.

If you're still having a problem, I don't know what to tell you. If you're a Dish Network customer, try rebooting your receiver. That sometimes helps with these sorts of things.

I noticed last night that the issue is still there. Watching the CBS line up last night and again this morning on the local news, it was still happening. I have notice that it had not been as bad till last night. I rebooted my VIP 722, but still did not seem to help.
Side note, I noticed when the picture flashed last night that the audio would also drop out. I seem to be having audio issues with Fox also. But I have noted that others have commented that the issue was fixed, I still see that the volume differs from programing to commercials and the level is way softer than other stations.

I still have the flashing also.........Nice to know it's not just my 722 thats doing it.

Dish Network used to have a e-mail for picture quality, I'll have to look that up and send them a note about this.......who knows if it will help!

I get everything OTA except Fox 27-1.

NBC, CBS, ABC, WCFN and more coming in super strong no problems..
Just Fox has stopped since 2/17/09 approximately it's like it's shut down. I am 90 miles south of Chicago and 50 miles north of Champaign area and all networks coming in great. Is it my equipment, any ideas.

Weird I got my Fox 27-1 on 3/5 for a day and it's completely disappeared again.

Anyone in the Danville area seeing W31BX-D? Should be repeating WAND-DT, and I'm trying to figure out if it's mapping to 17-1 or not.

- Trip

Can anyone give me a ballpark figure of what it's going to cost to have our antenna mounted by Good Vibes (or any other suggested company)? Fairly standard 10' boom antenna with a 10' mast (may look into buying another 10') and will likely be taking our existing mount with us. The only thing we may or may not have when they come is the coax. (I'm also going to pay for them to run wire for our rear speakers as well which I've read on their site should be around $200.)

Anyone else have No Picture On WCIA-HD On Comcast in Springfield? Audio is coming through fine, but i have no picture on any of my TVs. nor do my parents out in Chatham. Is this a Comcast problem? or a WCIA problem? I guess ill be downloading "the Unit" this week.

Dr.

Can anyone give me a ballpark figure of what it's going to cost to have our antenna mounted by Good Vibes (or any other suggested company)? Fairly standard 10' boom antenna with a 10' mast (may look into buying another 10') and will likely be taking our existing mount with us. The only thing we may or may not have when they come is the coax. (I'm also going to pay for them to run wire for our rear speakers as well which I've read on their site should be around $200.)

It won't be cheap. Without knowing exactly what has to be done it is hard to estimate. You're probably looking at hundreds, probably $250 or more depending on the antenna and the mast. If you're just talking about adding an antenna and mast section to an existing tower or mast, it may be cheaper. Can you not just order a telescoping antenna mast and do it yourself? There's a base plate the mast fits into and an eave bracket to mount. Add the antenna to the mast, then raise the sections and tighten the set screw to hold in place.

Would anyone care to comment on CBS's HD picture? I've noticed that on on fast moving shots (basketball) there is so much blocking it"s sad. This happens on all three of my HD sets (mits LCD, panny plamsa, and LG LCD). I am receiving WCIA off air via attic antenna. Compared to BigTen Network or ESPN via Directv it is a huge difference. Is this the way CBS is or something WCIA is doing?

Would anyone care to comment on CBS's HD picture? I've noticed that on on fast moving shots (basketball) there is so much blocking it"s sad. This happens on all three of my HD sets (mits LCD, panny plamsa, and LG LCD). I am receiving WCIA off air via attic antenna. Compared to BigTen Network or ESPN via Directv it is a huge difference. Is this the way CBS is or something WCIA is doing?
I get WCIA via Comcast on my Sony SXRD and have noticed the micro blocking for the past three basketball seasons. I don't know if it is a local or network issue, though.

Would anyone care to comment on CBS's HD picture? I've noticed that on on fast moving shots (basketball) there is so much blocking it"s sad. This happens on all three of my HD sets (mits LCD, panny plamsa, and LG LCD). I am receiving WCIA off air via attic antenna. Compared to BigTen Network or ESPN via Directv it is a huge difference. Is this the way CBS is or something WCIA is doing?

You're finding out about a 1080i signal, with a 480i subchannel.

This is why ABC and Fox went with 720p. Sports. Progressive scan can deal with fast action better than interlaced. Plus, they can add subchannels without bit-starving their prime channel.

You're finding out about a 1080i signal, with a 480i subchannel.

This is why ABC and Fox went with 720p. Sports. Progressive scan can deal with fast action better than interlaced. Plus, they can add subchannels without bit-starving their prime channel.

I figured that was the case, but hadn't thought about 1080 vs 720. Is there any way they could use more of the bandwidth for WCIA and less for WCFN during the tournament?
I'm starting to think about getting March Madness from DirecTV to get a better signal.

For those unable to find WCIA-DT on Comcast QAM, try re-scanning. I have been working with their main head-end tech and we've hopefully got the problem fixed.


WCIAchief,

Almost a year later, and still no resolution? WCIA-HD was appearing in the 90's, but now it's disappeared completely on comast. It has been this way for several months now. Pretty aggravating around march madness.

I'm starting to think about getting March Madness from DirecTV to get a better signal.

How do you think it's going to be better on DirecTV, since DirecTV picks WCIA-DT OTA here in Springfield, but via WCFN-DT 49.2??? :confused: ;)

Josh> audio on the HD feed was static at the start of the CW primetime, until someone at the studio flipped it to the SD feed for the rest of the broadcast

even the audio on the SD feed had a few errors, but not enough to cause lip sync drift; notice the encoder was actually working and giving bits to the subchannel not needing them with the large static black bars surrounding the picture:

[the 21second mark error is your flip to the CW feed from local]

Sequence Frame 641(7-B) / Time 0:00:21 :
AudioError: Corrupted AC3 frame of 1790 payload bytes at file offset 33328670

Sequence Frame 3102(8-P) / Time 0:01:50 :
AudioError: Corrupted AC3 frame of 1790 payload bytes at file offset 185384574

Sequence Frame 7569(2-I) / Time 0:04:32 :
AudioError: Corrupted AC3 frame of 1790 payload bytes at file offset 482302938

Sequence Frame 38923(8-P) / Time 0:23:07 :
AudioWarning: Timestamp gap of 0.032000 sec. ending at file offset 2073629878

Sequence Frame 107247(9-B) / Time 1:02:58 :
Info: End of MPEG2 sequence

Sequence Summary:

File Size Processed: 5.04 GB, Play Time: 01h:02m:58s
1920 x 1080, 29.97 fps, 45.00 Mbps (10.62 Mbps Average).
Average Video Quality: 45.69 KB/Frame, 0.18 Bits/Pixel.
AC3 Audio: 3/2 Channels (L, C, R, SL, SR) + LFE, 48.0 kHz, 448 kbps.
Dialog Normalization: -27.0 dB, Center Mix Level: -3.0 dB, Surround Mix Level: -3.0 dB
0 of 107247 video frames found with errors.
3 of 118080 audio frames found with errors.
0 corrupted video bytes in file.
0.000000 seconds of video timestamp gaps.
0.032000 seconds of audio timestamp gaps.


Josh> your WBUI feed still has some audio issues, although some are fixed

the LFE channel is there now, so you got the cabling worked out:
AC3 Audio: 3/2 Channels (L, C, R, SL, SR) + LFE, 48.0 kHz, 448 kbps.
Dialog Normalization: -27.0 dB, Center Mix Level: -3.0 dB, Surround Mix Level: -3.0 dB

but the audio timestamp gaps are still there which is causing serious lip-sync issues. in a one hour broadcast, for example this monday's gossip girl, it was off a total of: 2.432000 seconds of audio timestamp gaps. i'm not an audio tech guy but the log says frequent gaps and ac3 packet errors are in the transport stream, here is an example:

i was talking about the initial channel election obviously

as far as moves now, many are delayed till June.

That's not completely accurate. Some stations didn't move because the FCC told them they couldn't. Case in point, WCFN.

They were/are scheduled to move from UHF 53 to VHF 13. They didn't move because the FCC told them they couldn't. According to the station manager, they have to continue broadcasting on 53 because if they move to 13, they'd interfere with other channels in the area that weren't ready to switch. WCFN has invested the money to switch and is completely ready. But they can't because some other station (300 miles away - in Jefferson City,MO) isn't ready to transition to their new channel. :rolleyes:

So there's more than just money. There's a domino-effect with some of these stations.

this information is actually incorrect, but leads to the same conclusion

720p is assumed to deal with live 60frame action better than 1080i, but real world results have never come to fruition. your not going to find a single average person who can tell the difference between 720i and 720p at the same rate with the same source. progressive delivery affects picture quality to almost unoticeable levels for the average person.

also a progressive source is not needed for the vast majority of content which is produced 24 frame, your typical tv show shot on a set, as the interlace frames can be flagged to recreate 24p or even a good decoder can recreate it from a non flagged source.

the blocking you see on 1080i WCIA feed is due to bandwidth starving as they split their channel to send WCFN on the subchannel. they are probably also still using older equipment and lack appropriate stat muxing which would alleviate some of the probelms even on a split feed. it would look no different at the same bandwidth in 1080p. WCIA has chosen to do this as they consider it an acceptable trade off to lower their quality in order to distribute WCFN more broadly and try to make more money. the assumtion is that even though you don't like the starved CBS feed, your still going to watch.

it is all about money pretty much.

ABC and FOX chose 720p due to cost, it is a whole lot cheaper to shoot and distribute. Fox could stuff all their football games in HD on the transponder at 720p quality whereas CBS had to buy more bandwidth to do the same and preserve quality at 1080i. there is no comparison between full bandwidth Fox 720p and CBS 1080i.

you don't see as much blocking on 720p because it is HALF the resolution, HALF the detail. so when you reduce the fine detail needed, you don't need as much bandwidth and can deliver a picture that doesn't block, but is not nearly as sharp and detailed.

if you've ever had the opportunity to see Fox or ABC shows in 1080i or 1080p either on bluray or on stations in other countries like SKY in europe, you'll see the difference is huge. Lost on ABC looks like analog compared to the SKY HD channel. so even though you think your getting a great HD picture on ABC or Fox because there is no blocking, your not getting the detail you should be, it is cheaper HD, but because you don't have the same show in 1080i to compare it with, it is harder to tell.

and lets not forget the home users TV/display. many people have crummy HDTVs. the older or cheaper plasmas, or most flat panel LCDs are fairly crappy and have awful decoders inside them. your going to see some blocking no matter what, it just gets noticeably worse when the feeds get bad.


your best bet for quality CBS is to try and pull in WMBD peoria, which is full bandwidth and has a more recent model encoder, plus they don't spam the screen with constant weather maps. write WCIA and tell them your going to watch WMBD instead and write WMBD and thank them and tell them your suggesting it to all your friends.

You're finding out about a 1080i signal, with a 480i subchannel.

This is why ABC and Fox went with 720p. Sports. Progressive scan can deal with fast action better than interlaced. Plus, they can add subchannels without bit-starving their prime channel.

WCIAchief,

Almost a year later, and still no resolution? WCIA-HD was appearing in the 90's, but now it's disappeared completely on comast. It has been this way for several months now. Pretty aggravating around march madness.Have you called Comcast to complain? They are required by the FCC to carry local stations. I'll check back with them but I have absolutely no control over their QAM setup.

your best bet for quality CBS is to try and pull in WMBD peoria, which is both full bandwidth and has a more recent model encoder, plus they don't spam the screen with constant weather maps. write WCIA and tell them your going to watch WMBD instead and write WMBD and thank them and tell them your suggesting it to all your friends.

They have the same model encoder we have, a Tandberg E5780. Yes, it does lack stat muxing, but it's what corporate gave us. I ran WCIA-HD at 16.5 MB and WCFN-SD at 1.5 MB for over a year, but the video quality for CFN was just brutal. So, CFN is now at 4 MB and WCIA is set for 14 MB. Of course I would love to provide full 1080i HD in the full 19.4 MB payload, but it is what it is.

We only "spam the screen" with weather maps when the weather warrants it. Part of our obligation to serve the community is to issue weather alerts and contribute to public safety.

Not sure what you have against my station, but we're no different than any other business these days. While I have nothing against one of our fellow Nexstar stations in Peoria, trying to pull it in will be an exercise in futility for most folks in this DMA.

They have the same model encoder we have, a Tandberg E5780. Yes, it does lack stat muxing, but it's what corporate gave us. I ran WCIA-HD at 16.5 MB and WCFN-SD at 1.5 MB for over a year, but the video quality for CFN was just brutal. So, CFN is now at 4 MB and WCIA is set for 14 MB. Of course I would love to provide full 1080i HD in the full 19.4 MB payload, but it is what it is.



WCIA Chief:

Is the signal that you uplink to DirecTV at the full 19.4mb? I sometimes think the DirecTV link has a better picture, but I'm probably hallucinating.

John C.

WCIA Chief:

Is the signal that you uplink to DirecTV at the full 19.4mb? I sometimes think the DirecTV link has a better picture, but I'm probably hallucinating.

John C.
Hi John-

Nope. WCIA-HD is derived from the WCFN-DT signal in Springfield which is running at 14 MB. I'm glad it looks good for you, as Direct compresses it to get it up to their satellite. I've read that Dish seems to have some issues with our signal but haven't confirmed that.

Really? I'd have assumed the cause of the delay was WPXS-13 in Mount Vernon, IL. Much closer than KRCG...

- Trip

WPXS-13's analog will go dark on 30 APR 09:

http://www.fcc.gov/DA-09-589A2.pdf

Their digital is on RF 21.

this information is actually incorrect, but leads to the same conclusion

720p is assumed to deal with live 60frame action better than 1080i, but real world results have never come to fruition. your not going to find a single average person who can tell the difference between 720i and 720p at the same rate with the same source. progressive delivery affects picture quality to almost unoticeable levels for the average person.

also a progressive source is not needed for the vast majority of content which is produced 24 frame, your typical tv show shot on a set, as the interlace frames can be flagged to recreate 24p or even a good decoder can recreate it from a non flagged source.

the blocking you see on 1080i WCIA feed is due to bandwidth starving as they split their channel to send WCFN on the subchannel. they are probably also still using older equipment and lack appropriate stat muxing which would alleviate some of the probelms even on a split feed. it would look no different at the same bandwidth in 1080p. WCIA has chosen to do this as they consider it an acceptable trade off to lower their quality in order to distribute WCFN more broadly and try to make more money. the assumtion is that even though you don't like the starved CBS feed, your still going to watch.

it is all about money pretty much.

ABC and FOX chose 720p due to cost, it is a whole lot cheaper to shoot and distribute. Fox could stuff all their football games in HD on the transponder at 720p quality whereas CBS had to buy more bandwidth to do the same and preserve quality at 1080i. there is no comparison between full bandwidth Fox 720p and CBS 1080i.

you don't see as much blocking on 720p because it is HALF the resolution, HALF the detail. so when you reduce the fine detail needed, you don't need as much bandwidth and can deliver a picture that doesn't block, but is not nearly as sharp and detailed.

if you've ever had the opportunity to see Fox or ABC shows in 1080i or 1080p either on bluray or on stations in other countries like SKY in europe, you'll see the difference is huge. Lost on ABC looks like analog compared to the SKY HD channel. so even though you think your getting a great HD picture on ABC or Fox because there is no blocking, your not getting the detail you should be, it is cheaper HD, but because you don't have the same show in 1080i to compare it with, it is harder to tell.

and lets not forget the home users TV/display. many people have crummy HDTVs. the older or cheaper plasmas, or most flat panel LCDs are fairly crappy and have awful decoders inside them. your going to see some blocking no matter what, it just gets noticeably worse when the feeds get bad.


your best bet for quality CBS is to try and pull in WMBD peoria, which is both full bandwidth and has a more recent model encoder, plus they don't spam the screen with constant weather maps. write WCIA and tell them your going to watch WMBD instead and write WMBD and thank them and tell them your suggesting it to all your friends.

I was right about the bit starving.

These old poodle eyes find 720p quite sufficient. And, I am definitely of the "more content" camp. Rupert ain't stupid.

Mad Scheme: Poodle.1 carries my mix of KETC-killers. Poodle.2 carries CNN. Poodle.3 carries Cartoon Network. Poodle.4 carries the History Channel. Poodle.5 carries The Science Channel. <reverb> All in Glorious Standard Definition!</reverb>

5 SD channels, death to Charter. Of course, I gotta pay the fees to the content providers, but this is a nice fantasy. :)

Hi John-

Nope. WCIA-HD is derived from the WCFN-DT signal in Springfield which is running at 14 MB. I'm glad it looks good for you, as Direct compresses it to get it up to their satellite. I've read that Dish seems to have some issues with our signal but haven't confirmed that.

Indeed there seems to be a problem with the HD signal on Dish. There is a flicker every 4-5 minutes. It's not horrible just annoying. It started when the DMA went live with HD last month. Otherwise the picture is outstanding upped to 1080i on a Dish 722.

Indeed there seems to be a problem with the HD signal on Dish. There is a flicker every 4-5 minutes. It's not horrible just annoying. It started when the DMA went live with HD last month. Otherwise the picture is outstanding upped to 1080i on a Dish 722.

That must be something unique to your install, as I have not had any problems. Make sure your signal to the 129 satellite is clear and unobstructed. What are your signal strengths on it? Mine are around 55-60 most of the time. Try running a switch check and/or rebooting your 722 too, as they do need that from time to time.

The only problem I've with WCIA's Dish HD feed occurred just a couple of days after the DMA came online. For an evening, there was some strange stuttering of the picture. See posts from a couple of weeks ago. That cleared up within a day or so and has been perfect ever since.

On my 61" HDTV, WCIA's Dish HD feed looks just as good as any other HD channel. Whether national (HBO, Discovery, etc), other local HD's via Dish (WRSP, WAND, WICS) or those locals in HD via OTA antenna. I can't get WCIA's OTA signal where I live, so I can't compare it to that.

That must be something unique to your install, as I have not had any problems. Make sure your signal to the 129 satellite is clear and unobstructed. What are your signal strengths on it? Mine are around 55-60 most of the time. Try running a switch check and/or rebooting your 722 too, as they do need that from time to time.

The only problem I've with WCIA's Dish HD feed occurred just a couple of days after the DMA came online. For an evening, there was some strange stuttering of the picture. See posts from a couple of weeks ago. That cleared up within a day or so and has been perfect ever since.

On my 61" HDTV, WCIA's Dish HD feed looks just as good as any other HD channel. Whether national (HBO, Discovery, etc), other local HD's via Dish (WRSP, WAND, WICS) or those locals in HD via OTA antenna. I can't get WCIA's OTA signal where I live, so I can't compare it to that.

Strange, It only happens with WCIA. All the other locals are fine. Agreed on the picture, it is just as clear as any of the national feeds, It's on a new Z- series Bravia. I thought at first it maybe my 722, I've only had it 2 months and it acts goofy sometimes but I have also noticed the flicker on my parents VIP622. It seems more random. I have been watching Letterman and Late, Late show and it hasn't done it all tonight. Maybe I'm just too tired to notice it right now.

http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/76370

WILL-TV 12 signs off 3/31/09.

How do you think it's going to be better on DirecTV, since DirecTV picks WCIA-DT OTA here in Springfield, but via WCFN-DT 49.2??? :confused: ;)

Well this brings up the question (which probably belongs on DBS talk) were does DirecTV get the feed for their March Madness Package? I assume it's from CBS directly some how like the raw national feed since the ad they run says you can get all the games without the regional cut ins and outs ... But surely it's not the single form 49.2.

And I don't have anything against WCIA for the record, in fact it is my preferred local channel. Just have spent alot of money on some high quality sets and want the best picture quality when it comes to my basketball.

...were does DirecTV get the feed for their March Madness Package? I assume it's from CBS directly some how like the raw national feed

Yes - NO different than their other season ticket packages...

And I don't have anything against WCIA for the record, in fact it is my preferred local channel. Just have spent alot of money on some high quality sets and want the best picture quality when it comes to my basketball.

Agree - that's why I go ELSEWHERE for my network prog, that DON'T have all these constant problems... ;) :D

Looks like DirecTV is passing the HD signal for WILL and WSEC now... :cool:

by encoder setup i meant the lack of stat muxing which is key for subchannel use.

while it is what it is as far as you doing your job, it is crap many times for what it is for us watching, especially when a much better alternative exists in WMBD; i don't have any love for either station, just respect for what they actually do, not their excuses.

personally i believe starving the main channel to send an unrelated channel is sleazy. if WCIA could do it without affecting the PQ, then sure why not, but they can't. so that means WCIA has made a choice, force their viewers to suffer to reach a few more eyeballs for a couple more pennies in corporate profits. it is what it is.

as far as screen spam goes, the FCC does not force or require a single one of those spam maps, or the spam W in the other corner. that is a station choice, a branding choice, and many don't like it. other stations in the DMA and other DMAs do not run the spam maps, or if they do not nearly as often. this excuse is always the cop-out. if you consider a map covering over the tv program showing some sprinkles somewhere public safety, then so be it. important weather safety information can be provided in a multitude of ways that don't require continual screen obstructions. occasional real weather alert crawls and weather bumpers would be more than enough.

the choice may not be yours, but just reporting what it is.

They have the same model encoder we have, a Tandberg E5780. Yes, it does lack stat muxing, but it's what corporate gave us. I ran WCIA-HD at 16.5 MB and WCFN-SD at 1.5 MB for over a year, but the video quality for CFN was just brutal. So, CFN is now at 4 MB and WCIA is set for 14 MB. Of course I would love to provide full 1080i HD in the full 19.4 MB payload, but it is what it is.

We only "spam the screen" with weather maps when the weather warrants it. Part of our obligation to serve the community is to issue weather alerts and contribute to public safety.

Not sure what you have against my station, but we're no different than any other business these days. While I have nothing against one of our fellow Nexstar stations in Peoria, trying to pull it in will be an exercise in futility for most folks in this DMA.

Looks like DirecTV is passing the HD signal for WILL and WSEC now... :cool:

WOW, didn't think we'd get BOTH in HD already - & BEFORE St.Louis got their PBS in HD! :eek:
Now, if they'd just get WBUI-CW HD... :(

I noticed that WICD has been broadcasting in SD the past couple of nights, at least on Comcast in Champaign-Urbana. Does anyone have any insight to what is going in with them?

Indeed there seems to be a problem with the HD signal on Dish. There is a flicker every 4-5 minutes. It's not horrible just annoying. It started when the DMA went live with HD last month. Otherwise the picture is outstanding upped to 1080i on a Dish 722.

I agree creasemonkey...........I still get this flicker also, I emailed dishnetwork and they said they were looking into it but that was 2 - 3 weeks ago:confused:

I noticed that WICD has been broadcasting in SD the past couple of nights, at least on Comcast in Champaign-Urbana. Does anyone have any insight to what is going in with them?

No insight here...(only Comcast). And OTA, which is also in SD.

I noticed that WICD has been broadcasting in SD the past couple of nights, at least on Comcast in Champaign-Urbana. Does anyone have any insight to what is going in with them?

I just called the station--they said they hope to have it fixed by Thursday night.

Have you called Comcast to complain? They are required by the FCC to carry local stations. I'll check back with them but I have absolutely no control over their QAM setup.

Are they required to carry the digital version? I have called them to complain, but they insist that I need their box to get any digital channels...i.e. the people answering the phone have no idea that some of the channels are broadcast clear QAM. Therefore they won't talk to me.

WCIA-HD was appearing in the 90's, but now it's disappeared completely on comast. It has been this way for several months now. Pretty aggravating around march madness.

Have you tried doing a rescan of your TV lately? I just did on mine a couple days ago, because I lost a couple of our local HD's - lo & behold, WCIA-HD is NOW properly mapped to 3.1 in clear QAM! (it's STILL on the same QAM frequency, however) WICS-HD is ALSO mapped to 20.1 as well! Right now, the only local stations NOT properly mapped are 17.2, 55.1HD & 51.1SD.

I know we're not on the same headend as you guys, but I imagine your headend get WCIA-HD the same way we do (on fiber), so it's worth a shot.

I just called the station--they said they hope to have it fixed by Thursday night.
Thanks for looking into this. I should have called myself. I really hate the non-HD broadcast from WICD. I could hardly watch Life On Mars tonight.

http://www.sj-r.com/archive/x2030331076/Comcast-to-make-WSEC-digital-only-in-late-April

Comcast will move local PBS affiliate WSEC-TV to its digital service next month.

As of April 22, Channel 8 will be available only to Comcast customers who have either digital set-top boxes or a digital TVs.

The move comes in the wake of a complicated agreement between the Association of Public Television Stations and the National Cable & Telecommunications Association.

Rich Ruggiero, a spokesman for Comcast, said Thursday that in cities with more than one PBS station, cable providers can designate one station as the “primary” and other stations as “secondary.”

Cable providers must carry both the analog and digital signals of the primary station, he said.

For secondary stations, however, cable operators have two options: carry one analog station with no digital stations, or carry multiple digital stations with no analog. It’s up to the secondary PBS stations to make the choice.

“That’s the agreement between the public-television world and the cable world,” Ruggiero said. “That’s not specific to Comcast or any particular public TV station.”

In the Springfield-Decatur-Champaign market, Comcast selected WILL-TV (Channel 12) as the primary public TV station. WILL will remain available in analog and digital.

As a secondary station, WSEC chose to have Comcast carry its digital signals, which means it will no longer be available to analog cable customers.

WSEC chief executive officer Jerold Gruebel called Comcast’s selection of WILL as the area’s primary PBS outlet “a bad decision.”

“We tried to change their minds. They wouldn’t listen. We had community leaders write letters and make calls. They wouldn’t listen,” Gruebel said. “I’m disappointed.”

Ruggiero said Comcast selected WILL because it is the only station carried in all three cities. WSEC is carried in Springfield and Decatur but not Champaign; WEIU-TV, which originates in Charleston, is carried in Champaign but not Springfield or Decatur.

Ruggiero was asked if Comcast could have designated WSEC as the primary station in Springfield and WILL in the rest of the market.

“We wanted to identify the thing that would produce the least amount of channel change across the system we serve,” he said. “And because (WILL) is on both analog and digital everywhere, that’s the reason we went in this direction.”

Most of Comcast’s customers in Springfield already have set-top boxes and will be unaffected by the change, he said.

For those who don’t, Ruggiero said Comcast will offer a digital cable box free for one year. He said he expects that offer to be on the table soon.

WSEC will remain part of basic digital service, he said.

“The end result is: Customers are going to get more PBS from us,” Ruggiero said.

Starting April 22, digital customers will have access to four WSEC channels: the main station in standard definition (Channel 8); the main station in high definition (Channel 916); WSEC-Create, which carries cooking, arts and crafts shows (Channel 219); and WSEC-World, which carries PBS documentaries, science and news programs (channel to be determined). All but WSEC-World are available now.

On April 2, Comcast will add WEIU-World and WEIU-HD to the current standard-definition WEIU (Channel 189).

Indeed there seems to be a problem with the HD signal on Dish. There is a flicker every 4-5 minutes. It's not horrible just annoying. It started when the DMA went live with HD last month. Otherwise the picture is outstanding upped to 1080i on a Dish 722.

I've been having the same problem ever since the HD went live on Dish Network. So it's not just you. I've got a 722 that I'll sometimes switch to the OTA input if the flicker becomes too annoying.

Last night seemed extremely bad as it flashed a lot during "How I met your mother" and "Two and a half men" not near as bad during "Big Bang". Anybody else having a problem with the audio dropping in volume on channel 3 HD? I also have a VIP 722.

Are they required to carry the digital version? I have called them to complain, but they insist that I need their box to get any digital channels...i.e. the people answering the phone have no idea that some of the channels are broadcast clear QAM. Therefore they won't talk to me.
Yes, they are required by agreements to deliver BROADCAST HDTV to every package, even the basic package which I have. This is clearly stated in the fine print on their website, under the cable packages that they offer. You can access that by entering an address and zip code. The wording is such that a box may be required.

But in Decatur, they clearly do not have their act together. I have went in person to the cable office and have received the runaround. I have showed them the print out. They returned with a copy of hand scribbled digital station numbers that were once active but are not now. I told the person at the window these were no longer active, and she said she would let me talk to a tech person. I did get to talk to this person who was very personable and seemed knowlegeable enough. His first question was do I have a SONY television and I said yes, then he told me that Sony tuners operate differently than others. That the stations are there but I would have to search for them, hunt and peck so to speak. He said that he was going to a friend's to help him with his Sony and if he found the numbers he would make sure there was a copy of them at the office and I could check back.

As incredible as this sounds, I am NOT making this up. He believed what he was telling me. I bought his story.

When I got home and thought it over, I got to thinking if Sony tuners were somehow "blind" to certain digital signals that other brands were not.

I THINK NOT.

I have Direct TV but I do not necessarily want or need every TV in my house to have a receiver connected to it or to have my entire satellite package. I like to run the basic cable to a couple of tvs just to get the broadcast channels on them.

I am not making this story up. I am not creative enough.


I know there are some people who post to this thread with some technical expertise beyond my laymen's knowlege.

Are SONY digital tuners unable to pick up signals that other brands can?

That was the story I was given, and I bought for awhile.

Anyone watch ESPN on Monday afternoon? ESPN on Comcast is supposed to be showing the Mets - Reds baseball game, but instead they are showing ESPN News. Is this the case for people with D* and E* as well? Just curious.

Anyone watch ESPN on Monday afternoon? ESPN on Comcast is supposed to be showing the Mets - Reds baseball game, but instead they are showing ESPN News. Is this the case for people with D* and E* as well? Just curious.

Not watching, but just out of curiosity, have you tried the SD ESPN channel? I know during football season when the ESPN national HD game would be blacked out in our market, you could only watch the alternate game on the SD channel, because ESPN only has the capability to broadcast one HD game concurrently. But I don't know whether there is ever a similar situation for baseball.

Not watching, but just out of curiosity, have you tried the SD ESPN channel? I know during football season when the ESPN national HD game would be blacked out in our market, you could only watch the alternate game on the SD channel, because ESPN only has the capability to broadcast one HD game concurrently. But I don't know whether there is ever a similar situation for baseball.
I remembered that ESPN had done that and so I did go to the SD ESPN channel and no game on their as well. Right now ESPN2 is blocking the Cubs - Astros games, but I expected that since I can see the game on Comcast Sports channel.

At least you can watch your game somewhere. Comcast is blacking out 20 Stl Cardinal games again this year. I tried to sign up for MLB's online game service but can't get Cardinal games because the rights for my area are owned by Fox Sports Midwest and Comcast is blacking out 20 of the games, at least they are showing the rest of the Fox Sports Cardinal package. Anyone hear when AT&T's u-verse is going to be available in the Springfield, Il area? I can't wait to drop Comcast, I'd get a dish but I have tons of trees blocking the proper exposure.

Comcast is blacking out 20 Stl Cardinal games again this year. I tried to sign up for MLB's online game service but can't get Cardinal games because the rights for my area are owned by Fox Sports Midwest and Comcast is blacking out 20 of the games, at least they are showing the rest of the Fox Sports Cardinal package.

I thought this was resolved late last season; where did you see it's going to happen again THIS year???
The other stupid thing with comcrap, is that they still do NOT have FSW up in HD yet, but BOTH DISH & DirecTV do - what an outfit! :rolleyes:

It was announced in the State Journal Register today, 4/7, blacking out the 4/7 and 4/8 games as well as 2 against the Mets later this month. No more specific dates were mentioned. If you call Comcast to complain they try and tell you the blackout is due to MLB rules. I told them they were either misinformed or lying to me, they really couldn't care less.

Well, contrary to what was reported in the paper, the 4/7 Cardinal game was shown. ????????? Not sure what's going on.

cable companies are required by law to carry local OTA DTV broadcasts and send them 'in the clear'; this is a FCC ruling. however some cable cos 'interpret' the ruling differently and the FCC has been lax in enforcement as they are in many areas. ideally the cable co has an interest in being friendly here so it is best to just use their promise.

the cable co uses a transmission tech called QAM which allows for encryption along with channel mapping. those local stations are supposed to be clear unencrypted QAM, but there are no rules on where they can be, ie what channel number and if that number can keep changing.

as the cable co often does behind the scenes work, those digital channel numbers get changed so they appear lost or gone to people with DTV sets and no cable box; those with the cable box don't have issues as the box uses the cable guides to find where the channel moved.

also, when the cable co moves things, they often accidentally encrypt those channels which they shouldn't, that is often another problem for DTV sets. the cable boxes again don't care as they can decode the encryption.

you have to remember that most people have no clue, so it does little good to inform the customer service reps as the customers generally have other problems. nine times out of ten, it is the customers problem. also the customer reps don't get brief on every little tech change or repair.

and like the cable tech said in your reply, some sets with certain DTV tuners can have problems with how the cable co sends out its QAM identification and mapping. this is not a Sony problem as they don't even make the tuner chip inside the set, and often different Sony DTVs have different chips. the cable co can't keep every brand of DTV to test with, nor do they really care as they want you to have a box anyway.

the best option is to get a knowledgable tech person at the local end, explain the issue, and hope he'll do something.

unfortunately this problem is not going away anytime soon. every so often they change something, its possible you lose the channel or it gets encrypted again.

if you decide to search for it, you'll often find other channels which should be encrypted that are not, or VOD pay per view and such; again more mistakes. you may even find a VOD channel your neighbor is watching, but be careful as he might pause it on you ;)

Yes, they are required by agreements to deliver BROADCAST HDTV to every package

Anyone hear when AT&T's u-verse is going to be available in the Springfield, Il area? I can't wait to drop Comcast, I'd get a dish but I have tons of trees blocking the proper exposure.

See U-Verse info from April 9 C-U News-Gazette on Spfld, Decatur, C-U, and Danville. Would expect announcements/ads during the Summer of 2009.

http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2009/04/09/att_u-verse_to_be_offered_in_area_in_summer

cable companies are required by law to carry local OTA DTV broadcasts and send them 'in the clear'; this is a FCC ruling. however some cable cos 'interpret' the ruling differently and the FCC has been lax in enforcement as they are in many areas. ideally the cable co has an interest in being friendly here so it is best to just use their promise.

the cable co uses a transmission tech called QAM which allows for encryption along with channel mapping. those local stations are supposed to be clear unencrypted QAM, but there are no rules on where they can be, ie what channel number and if that number can keep changing.

as the cable co often does behind the scenes work, those digital channel numbers get changed so they appear lost or gone to people with DTV sets and no cable box; those with the cable box don't have issues as the box uses the cable guides to find where the channel moved.

also, when the cable co moves things, they often accidentally encrypt those channels which they shouldn't, that is often another problem for DTV sets. the cable boxes again don't care as they can decode the encryption.

you have to remember that most people have no clue, so it does little good to inform the customer service reps as the customers generally have other problems. nine times out of ten, it is the customers problem. also the customer reps don't get brief on every little tech change or repair.

and like the cable tech said in your reply, some sets with certain DTV tuners can have problems with how the cable co sends out its QAM identification and mapping. this is not a Sony problem as they don't even make the tuner chip inside the set, and often different Sony DTVs have different chips. the cable co can't keep every brand of DTV to test with, nor do they really care as they want you to have a box anyway.

the best option is to get a knowledgable tech person at the local end, explain the issue, and hope he'll do something.

unfortunately this problem is not going away anytime soon. every so often they change something, its possible you lose the channel or it gets encrypted again.

if you decide to search for it, you'll often find other channels which should be encrypted that are not, or VOD pay per view and such; again more mistakes. you may even find a VOD channel your neighbor is watching, but be careful as he might pause it on you ;)

I appreciate the info that you posted.



I am getting a good number of digital signals on QAM. I am getting the digital signals which correspond to my basic package which include the shopping channels, C-Span, and local weather. I am getting some VOD preview channels and some other channels which go off and on. The problem is they are not putting up any of the local broadcast stations in digital or HD.

The problem is they are not putting up any of the local broadcast stations in digital or HD.

Either you are having a problem with your TV or wiring, or maybe do you have a trap in your line? I can tell you here in Spfld, I get EVERY single local HD & SD local OTA channel. Are you aware that Comcast is now mapping the HD (& some SD local digitals) to their proper OTA channel designation. (eg: WCIA-HD comes on my Sony QAM tuner at 3.1, WICS-HD at 20.1, etc.) And obviously this means they are NOT encrypted, & since Decatur IS on our headend, it is the same for Decatur.

Here is the entire list that I am currently getting:

WCIA-HD 3.1
WCFN-SD 3.2
WILL-HD 12.1
WILL-Create 12.3
WSEC-HD 14.1
WSEC-Create 14.3
WAND-HD 17.1
WICS-HD 20.1
WBUI-HD 23.1
WEIU-HD 51.1
WEIU-Worldview 51.2
WRSP-HD 55.1

WAND doppler weather is the only one not properly mapped - right now it comes up 120.71; maybe eventually it will get mapped to 17.2 where it really belongs.

I will tell you that in the past, my Sony SXRD sometimes did NOT find all these channels on it's own; I had to manually "help" it out. If you look back at some previous posts of mine, it tells you how to do this in your add/delete channel menu. Also, you ARE running a complete channel auto prog routine - & NOT just the "add digital channels" one instead?

Either you are having a problem with your TV or wiring, or maybe do you have a trap in your line? I can tell you here in Spfld, I get EVERY single local HD & SD local OTA channel. Are you aware that Comcast is now mapping the HD (& some SD local digitals) to their proper OTA channel designation. (eg: WCIA-HD comes on my Sony QAM tuner at 3.1, WICS-HD at 20.1, etc.) And obviously this means they are NOT encrypted, & since Decatur IS on our headend, it is the same for Decatur.

Here is the entire list that I am currently getting:

WCIA-HD 3.1
WCFN-SD 3.2
WILL-HD 12.1
WILL-Create 12.3
WSEC-HD 14.1
WSEC-Create 14.3
WAND-HD 17.1
WICS-HD 20.1
WBUI-HD 23.1
WEIU-HD 51.1
WEIU-Worldview 51.2
WRSP-HD 55.1

WAND doppler weather is the only one not properly mapped - right now it comes up 120.71; maybe eventually it will get mapped to 17.2 where it really belongs.

I will tell you that in the past, my Sony SXRD sometimes did NOT find all these channels on it's own; I had to manually "help" it out. If you look back at some previous posts of mine, it tells you how to do this in your add/delete channel menu. Also, you ARE running a complete channel auto prog routine - & NOT just the "add digital channels" one instead?
I appreciate your information, it gives me hope.

I do not believe those channels slots are active here in Decatur. I have tried those numbers and 12.1 is sometimes active with WILL HD.

The fact is that I am trapped. It is my understanding that Basic cable which I subscribe to is trapped, but I am still getting a lot of digital channels in the clear.

I happen to think that here in Decatur, they have not got around to putting and properly mapping the local HDTV signals.

I do not believe those channels slots are active here in Decatur. I have tried those numbers and 12.1 is sometimes active with WILL HD.

I assure you, they VERY much are - again, you are on the SAME, EXACT headend as us. If you don't want to believe it, then I don't know what else to tell you. :confused:
Have you thought about going to a friend's house that has cable w/a QAM TV & seeing what happens with their set???

The fact is that I am trapped. It is my understanding that Basic cable which I subscribe to is trapped, but I am still getting a lot of digital channels in the clear.

Well I think that's your problem - YOUR trap might be happening to be knocking out those freqs (QAM's) that these channels are on. I got to tell you though, I know others with either basic OR internet only traps (which knock out channels 2-78), but they ARE getting these channels fine. Again, it appears the problem is only at your place.
You might also have other signal problems that are ONLY happening at your house - other people here & on another board have had issues with their signal quality, since digital signals are more sensitive to signal degradation than analog. One guy in particular in Chatham had this same problem, which was caused by his trap - he kept nagging Insight until they came out & fixed it, which they finally did & it's worked fine ever since.
Unfortunately, you most likely will have a hard time getting cc to come out & fix this, since their mantra is to force you to use THEIR box - regardless if you should be getting these signals w/out it.

I happen to think that here in Decatur, they have not got around to putting and properly mapping the local HDTV signals.

Again, see first reply...

I assure you, they VERY much are - again, you are on the SAME, EXACT headend as us. If you don't want to believe it, then I don't know what else to tell you. :confused:
Have you thought about going to a friend's house that has cable w/a QAM TV & seeing what happens with their set???



Well I think that's your problem - YOUR trap might be happening to be knocking out those freqs (QAM's) that these channels are on. I got to tell you though, I know others with either basic OR internet only traps (which knock out channels 2-78), but they ARE getting these channels fine. Again, it appears the problem is only at your place.
You might also have other signal problems that are ONLY happening at your house - other people here & on another board have had issues with their signal quality, since digital signals are more sensitive to signal degradation than analog. One guy in particular in Chatham had this same problem, which was caused by his trap - he kept nagging Insight until they came out & fixed it, which they finally did & it's worked fine ever since.
Unfortunately, you most likely will have a hard time getting cc to come out & fix this, since their mantra is to force you to use THEIR box - regardless if you should be getting these signals w/out it.



Again, see first reply...

I appreciate what you have said. I will try to do some investigating this week, and check out some other tuners if possible.

If they are using the same headend then as Springfield, then I should be getting those channels. I have not given much attention to the cable in my house. I do not have a basement, just a crawlspace but if I find others getting the HDTV signals, then there might be a splitter or something acting like a trap underneath my house.

The funny thing is that I am getting all the digital signals such as shopping channels and C-Span. I am getting a consistently good HD for WGN on 85.1 and I have gotten a nice HDTV signal for Fox 55 on 94.3 for many weeks but that went away. I was even getting Will HD on 12.1 last week.

Before the first of the year I was getting digital locals in the 20 point somethings.

and I have gotten a nice HDTV signal for Fox 55 on 94.3 for many weeks but that went away. I was even getting Will HD on 12.1 last week.

OK, sorry to nag you, but have you done a FULL AUTO SCAN within the past couple days??? Again, Fox 55 NO longer will come up on 94.3 (mine used to do the same thing) but instead has been mapped to 55.1 - they just did this VERY recently!
You have to understand that cc has been moving digital channels around quite a bit recently - anytime they move these around, OR even change the mapping on them, you MUST do a full rescan to get them back. I have to do it as well & there is NO way around it if you want to use a QAM tuner. I know it takes a while on those Sony TV's, but if you want those channels back, you don't have any other choice . ;)

OK, sorry to nag you, but have you done a FULL AUTO SCAN within the past couple days??? Again, Fox 55 NO longer will come up on 94.3 (mine used to do the same thing) but instead has been mapped to 55.1 - they just did this VERY recently!
You have to understand that cc has been moving digital channels around quite a bit recently - anytime they move these around, OR even change the mapping on them, you MUST do a full rescan to get them back. I have to do it as well & there is NO way around it if you want to use a QAM tuner. I know it takes a while on those Sony TV's, but if you want those channels back, you don't have any other choice . ;)
I really do appreciate your interest and your help.

I just did another full scan.

And I got pretty much what I had.

I came up with 12.1 again but it has some pixelation and the picture is barely holding up and will probably go to no signal.


I think that I probably have a problem with a trap or attenuation on the lower channel numbers. I do not get 55.1 but I am trying to get 12.1. I am getting HD for WGN on 85.1. I think that I am probably getting everything that is in the clear above 70.

I have lived in this house for twenty years and I have not touched the cable runs under the house. I know there is least one splitter. When I have been in the crawlspace, I have paid little attention to the cable because it has always worked properly.

I will try to get the cleanest feed from the pole and see if that brings me more channels.

My immediate neighbors are mostly very old and have tube sets or I might take a look at that aspect.

I just did another full scan.

And I got pretty much what I had.

I came up with 12.1 again but it has some pixelation and the picture is barely holding up and will probably go to no signal.


I think that I probably have a problem with a trap or attenuation on the lower channel numbers. I do not get 55.1 but I am trying to get 12.1. I am getting HD for WGN on 85.1. I think that I am probably getting everything that is in the clear above 70.

The fact that you are having problems w/12.1 tells me YOU are indeed, having a signal issue in your house. It could actually be the trap is defective out at the pole/pedestal that your cable drop connects to - or it could be something in your house, such as bad splitters, coax, connectors, etc. If you try calling comcast, just them you are having "picture issues", but do NOT even go into the digital/HD stuff with the CSR on the phone, as they will just tell you "you need OUR box for HD" - just explain to the tech when he arrives & show him the missing channels on your TV.

Also, DO be aware that the channel#'s do NOT at all correspond to the actual frequency they are carried on. eg: ch 55.1 is still carried on cable freq 94.3, ch 3.1 is carried on cable freq 119.59. If you go into the diagnostic menu of your TV each time you go to a digital channel, you can see this frequency for your self. (on channels remapped to their OTA channel#'s, you will NOT see the .xx, but just the main QAM freq that particular channel is on)

Good luck getting your problem fixed

The fact that you are having problems w/12.1 tells me YOU are indeed, having a signal issue in your house. It could actually be the trap is defective out at the pole/pedestal that your cable drop connects to - or it could be something in your house, such as bad splitters, coax, connectors, etc. If you try calling comcast, just them you are having "picture issues", but do NOT even go into the digital/HD stuff with the CSR on the phone, as they will just tell you "you need OUR box for HD" - just explain to the tech when he arrives & show him the missing channels on your TV.

Also, DO be aware that the channel#'s do NOT at all correspond to the actual frequency they are carried on. eg: ch 55.1 is still carried on cable freq 94.3, ch 3.1 is carried on cable freq 119.59. If you go into the diagnostic menu of your TV each time you go to a digital channel, you can see this frequency for your self. (on channels remapped to their OTA channel#'s, you will NOT see the .xx, but just the main QAM freq that particular channel is on)

Good luck getting your problem fixed
I really want to thank you for your help and your knowlege.

As I have already posted, I have a satellite dish also connected to my big screen and get HDTV locals through the satellite. I simply want the ability to rout my cable to my other televisions in order to get HD from broadcast to other rooms without additional receivers or boxes.

My first test will be to get the most direct cable from the cable company to an HD tuner to check that signal. I will then work from there. I am in no hurry to get underneath the house to my crawlspace.

But I am certain you have helped me figure out what I need to do to find the problem.

It may be a cable in my house or as you suggested a trap on pole.

Thanks again.

Have you tried doing a rescan of your TV lately? I just did on mine a couple days ago, because I lost a couple of our local HD's - lo & behold, WCIA-HD is NOW properly mapped to 3.1 in clear QAM!

Finally got around to it...have 2 tv's (one is a phd tuner attatched to a projector), the phd receiver found 3.1, and tunes it just fine. The tv (a panasonic) found 3.1 but says "weak signal" and displays nothing. So yea, comcast champaign did finally get around to giving WCIA the proper mapping to 3.1 :-D

At this point I'm suspecting that there is something wrong with the wiring in the house. Do you think comcast would help me diagnose this, or am I on my own?

The fact that you are having problems w/12.1 tells me YOU are indeed, having a signal issue in your house. It could actually be the trap is defective out at the pole/pedestal that your cable drop connects to - or it could be something in your house, such as bad splitters, coax, connectors, etc. If you try calling comcast, just them you are having "picture issues", but do NOT even go into the digital/HD stuff with the CSR on the phone, as they will just tell you "you need OUR box for HD" - just explain to the tech when he arrives & show him the missing channels on your TV.


Rich,

I'll take this advise also and call comcast. Thanks for your helpful responses!

Josh>

WBUI has been SD in primetime for almost 2 weeks now
i see the subchannel is gone, but i think most would rather have 14mbps HD than 17mbps SD

any word on a fix?

just thought I would chime in and say how much I hate comcast.

As of last time I was home (I am away at school now) all channels above 24 or something are no longer authorized on our DVR box downstairs. I mean, we get all the HD channels, but what if I want to watch Comedy Central? Ridiculous. On other TV's just running coax cable we get up to 75 or something. It is just stupid, I called and they said we had to pay more or something for it.

And what is the deal with NFL network... do we no longer get that? Also what package is MLBnetwork on... we don't get that. I'm guessing we have to pay more. Stupid.

Either you are having a problem with your TV or wiring, or maybe do you have a trap in your line? I can tell you here in Spfld, I get EVERY single local HD & SD local OTA channel. Are you aware that Comcast is now mapping the HD (& some SD local digitals) to their proper OTA channel designation. (eg: WCIA-HD comes on my Sony QAM tuner at 3.1, WICS-HD at 20.1, etc.) And obviously this means they are NOT encrypted, & since Decatur IS on our headend, it is the same for Decatur.

Here is the entire list that I am currently getting:

WCIA-HD 3.1
WCFN-SD 3.2
WILL-HD 12.1
WILL-Create 12.3
WSEC-HD 14.1
WSEC-Create 14.3
WAND-HD 17.1
WICS-HD 20.1
WBUI-HD 23.1
WEIU-HD 51.1
WEIU-Worldview 51.2
WRSP-HD 55.1

WAND doppler weather is the only one not properly mapped - right now it comes up 120.71; maybe eventually it will get mapped to 17.2 where it really belongs.

I will tell you that in the past, my Sony SXRD sometimes did NOT find all these channels on it's own; I had to manually "help" it out. If you look back at some previous posts of mine, it tells you how to do this in your add/delete channel menu. Also, you ARE running a complete channel auto prog routine - & NOT just the "add digital channels" one instead?


1. I have a Panasonic HDTV and I get all the above mentioned channels and I get WGN channel 85-1 in HD, also. I assume that WCFN is still in standard defintion (SD) because they have not made the transition to digital yet. What do you think?

Either you are having a problem with your TV or wiring, or maybe do you have a trap in your line? I can tell you here in Spfld, I get EVERY single local HD & SD local OTA channel. Are you aware that Comcast is now mapping the HD (& some SD local digitals) to their proper OTA channel designation. (eg: WCIA-HD comes on my Sony QAM tuner at 3.1, WICS-HD at 20.1, etc.) And obviously this means they are NOT encrypted, & since Decatur IS on our headend, it is the same for Decatur.

Here is the entire list that I am currently getting:

WCIA-HD 3.1
WCFN-SD 3.2
WILL-HD 12.1
WILL-Create 12.3
WSEC-HD 14.1
WSEC-Create 14.3
WAND-HD 17.1
WICS-HD 20.1
WBUI-HD 23.1
WEIU-HD 51.1
WEIU-Worldview 51.2
WRSP-HD 55.1

WAND doppler weather is the only one not properly mapped - right now it comes up 120.71; maybe eventually it will get mapped to 17.2 where it really belongs.

I will tell you that in the past, my Sony SXRD sometimes did NOT find all these channels on it's own; I had to manually "help" it out. If you look back at some previous posts of mine, it tells you how to do this in your add/delete channel menu. Also, you ARE running a complete channel auto prog routine - & NOT just the "add digital channels" one instead?

2. My Panasonic HDTV's list of channels automatically provides the channel caption (station listing and signal) of all of the above mentioned channels, for example, for Fox channel 55-1, the channel caption is WRSP HD. On the other hand it does not provide the channel caption for any other channels. When Fox was on channel 94-3 or 91-3, as a temporary Comcast channel, there was no caption provided automatically on my Panasonic list of channels and I had to look at all of the channels to find Fox HD. I then begin to think that the caption would only automatically appear when Comcast set the channel to the OTA channel number, which turned out to be false as the OTA channel for WCIA HD is 49-2 not 3-1. Comcast must have something to do with this that lets my TV automatically provides the captions for these channels and only happens when Comcast has permanently set the channel number such as 3-1. Originally I thought my Panasonic TV was providing the caption listing automatically for local HD channels but not all of the above channels are HD or digital. Is Comcast doing this just for local channels and/or is Comcast behind in setting up their digital network?

3. Which brings up another interesting question. I thought when a channel was desinated 3.2 or 3-2, it meant it was at least a digital channel but WCFN 3-2 is standard definition (SD) for now anyway. What's going on here?

2 Is Comcast doing this just for local channels and/or is Comcast behind in setting up their digital network?


I would guess they are just repeating the signal they receive which has that information on it (you get these over the air too), which explains why only channels that you could receive over the air have the labels. They are making that info available on other digital channels (the analog ones, too), with the caveat that you have to have one of their boxes to read it.


3. Which brings up another interesting question. I thought when a channel was desinated 3.2 or 3-2, it meant it was at least a digital channel but WCFN 3-2 is standard definition (SD) for now anyway. What's going on here?

WCFN on 3.2 is digital, which is a separate issue from being SD or HD. It is sharing the bandwidth of that particular frequency with the HD feed 3.1, which is why they have to lower the quality (although most of the content broadcast on 3.2 would be SD regardless of the amount of available bandwidth). See this wikipedia entry for a summary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_television#Formats_and_bandwidth).

WCFN IS already in digital SD OTA, but is NOT HD. It also shares the bandwidth w/WCIA-HD, on BOTH WCIA-DT & WCFN-DT OTA - I hope the hell Nexstar doesn't try a stunt of attempting to make it ALSO HD & squeezing BOTH HD's in the same amount of channel space.
Why in the hell Comcast is ALSO broadcasting WCFN-DT in the HD channel block (the 900's on all their boxes) is beyond me - they are also doing the same thing w/WEIU-DT, which is NOT in HD, either. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I would guess they are just repeating the signal they receive which has that information on it (you get these over the air too), which explains why only channels that you could receive over the air have the labels. They are making that info available on other digital channels (the analog ones, too), with the caveat that you have to have one of their boxes to read it.



WCFN on 3.2 is digital, which is a separate issue from being SD or HD. It is sharing the bandwidth of that particular frequency with the HD feed 3.1, which is why they have to lower the quality (although most of the content broadcast on 3.2 would be SD regardless of the amount of available bandwidth). See this wikipedia entry for a summary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_television#Formats_and_bandwidth).

If WCFN at channel 3-2 is in digital shouldn't my TV indicate that it is broadcasting in at least 480p and not 480i, which is what my HDTV is indicating?

If WCFN at channel 3-2 is in digital shouldn't my TV indicate that it is broadcasting in at least 480p and not 480i, which is what my HDTV is indicating?

No, digital signals (EITHER OTA or cable) support EITHER format... ;) ;)
WCFN-DT is also in 480i on both the OTA (49.1) & cable (3.2) QAM signals here.
480i does take up slightly less space than 480p, which also gives a little more bandwidth to WCIA-HD, which is in 1080p & takes up a little more bandwidth than 720p.

Just a headsup: CSN+HD is being broadcast in the clear on 109.5 tonight.

I hope the hell Nexstar doesn't try a stunt of attempting to make it ALSO HD & squeezing BOTH HD's in the same amount of channel space.

Why not? Our ABC affiliate 200 miles north-northeast in Chicago is. And...

Um...

Yeah. Not a good thing. :( They also run a second subchannel, which makes it worse.

To ctmooregottapee . I was just wondering what you were using to detect those AC3 Packet Errors you reported a month or so ago.

hey Josh, unfortunatley the errors are still there and have been during the HD broadcasts, but not when you drop to the SD feed so it maybe be in the HD chain

after recording the full transport stream, i'm using a tool called 'mpeg2repair' and using the log function. its purpose is to perform transport, mpeg2, and ac3 spec compliance checks on a transport stream. people capturing OTA broadcasts can use it to see if their capture was clean without errors or if the station has some induced errors. sometimes people use the repair function which basically blasts away the errored bytes and replaces them with something a decoder will see as compliant so it can be played, albeit with missing data. in the early days encoders were all over the place so the repair part was useful then.


those ac3 packet and timestamp errors are indicative of what i'm seeing with the audio sync issues, but i don't know how to tell you what is wrong exactly. if the transport stream is played the audio slowly goes out of sync as the timestamp gaps indicate, but if i ffw or rew, the audio resyncs. it is almost like if you used a timemachine on the audio to speed it up but didn't do the video and then recombined them. if i run it through a video/audio editor, it tries to remove video frames every so often to rematch the audio and video back up.


here is the start of last nights gossip girl:

Sequence Frame 1888(8-P) / Time 0:01:10 :
AudioWarning: Timestamp gap of 0.064000 sec. ending at file offset 130898414

Sequence Frame 1996(8-P) / Time 0:01:14 :
AudioWarning: Timestamp gap of 0.064000 sec. ending at file offset 139914894

Sequence Frame 2140(8-P) / Time 0:01:19 :
AudioError: Corrupted AC3 frame of 1790 payload bytes at file offset 151962498

Sequence Frame 2149(5-P) / Time 0:01:19 :
AudioWarning: Timestamp gap of 0.064000 sec. ending at file offset 152554134

Sequence Frame 2203(11-P) / Time 0:01:22 :
AudioWarning: Timestamp gap of 0.064000 sec. ending at file offset 156965178

Sequence Frame 3925(11-P) / Time 0:02:27 :
AudioWarning: Timestamp gap of 0.064000 sec. ending at file offset 309165466

Sequence Frame 6264(1-B) / Time 0:03:50 :
AudioWarning: Timestamp gap of 0.064000 sec. ending at file offset 500346802

Sequence Frame 6322(8-P) / Time 0:03:52 :
AudioWarning: Timestamp gap of 0.064000 sec. ending at file offset 504853350

Sequence Frame 6341(0-B) / Time 0:03:53 :
AudioWarning: Timestamp gap of 0.064000 sec. ending at file offset 506402094

Sequence Frame 6344(3-B) / Time 0:03:53 :
AudioWarning: Timestamp gap of 0.064000 sec. ending at file offset 506620174

Sequence Frame 6585(4-B) / Time 0:04:01 :
AudioWarning: Timestamp gap of 0.064000 sec. ending at file offset 526387810

Sequence Frame 6596(3-B) / Time 0:04:02 :
AudioWarning: Timestamp gap of 0.064000 sec. ending at file offset 527271222

Sequence Frame 6647(6-B) / Time 0:04:04 :
AudioWarning: Timestamp gap of 0.064000 sec. ending at file offset 530890598

Sequence Frame 6713(7-P) / Time 0:04:06 :
AudioWarning: Timestamp gap of 0.064000 sec. ending at file offset 536284318

Sequence Frame 6714(8-P) / Time 0:04:06 :
AudioError: Corrupted AC3 frame of 1790 payload bytes at file offset 536502210

Sequence Frame 6761(6-B) / Time 0:04:07 :
AudioWarning: Timestamp gap of 0.064000 sec. ending at file offset 539903694

Sequence Frame 12825(3-B) / Time 0:07:35 :
AudioError: Corrupted AC3 frame of 1790 payload bytes at file offset 990509238

Sequence Frame 13410(2-I) / Time 0:07:56 :
AudioWarning: Timestamp gap of 0.064000 sec. ending at file offset 1034754662

Sequence Frame 13474(3-B) / Time 0:07:58 :
AudioError: Corrupted AC3 frame of 1790 payload bytes at file offset 1039612958

Sequence Frame 19419(6-B) / Time 0:11:51 :
AudioWarning: Timestamp gap of 0.064000 sec. ending at file offset 1575621262

Sequence Frame 21101(2-I) / Time 0:12:57 :
AudioWarning: Timestamp gap of 0.064000 sec. ending at file offset 1727695778

Sequence Frame 21662(11-P) / Time 0:13:17 :
AudioWarning: Timestamp gap of 0.064000 sec. ending at file offset 1775498162

Sequence Frame 21971(11-P) / Time 0:13:29 :
AudioWarning: Timestamp gap of 0.064000 sec. ending at file offset 1801668138


To ctmooregottapee . I was just wondering what you were using to detect those AC3 Packet Errors you reported a month or so ago.

Hey gang. I'm able to receive WBUI HD over my antenna. I live in Bloomington, IL. Has anyone noticed the audio and video are out of sync with everything they air?

Or is it just me?

yes WBUI has been out of sync for about two months now; if you look up a couple posts, i'm showing a guy from the station the logs to prove it

on cable box, if it gets bad, just change the channel and change back and it should get better but slowly start to drift again. a ffw or rew on DVR playback might do it too.

the HD PQ has been fantastic though with the full channel bandwidth

Hey gang. I'm able to receive WBUI HD over my antenna. I live in Bloomington, IL. Has anyone noticed the audio and video are out of sync with everything they air?

Or is it just me?

Does anyone have the current Comcast channel list? I have a Sony v4100, and I can get 3.1 (no cable box), but 12.1, 17.1, etc are missing. Is it my tuner, or did these channels go away?

Does anyone have the current Comcast channel list? I have a Sony v4100, and I can get 3.1 (no cable box), but 12.1, 17.1, etc are missing. Is it my tuner, or did these channels go away?

I also have the V4100 and get all the local HD channels with no box, must be your tuner? They are still mapped like you posted also.

Does anyone have the current Comcast channel list? I have a Sony v4100, and I can get 3.1 (no cable box), but 12.1, 17.1, etc are missing. Is it my tuner, or did these channels go away?

They just moved them around again (when they just added WILL World) - I just rescanned last night & everything is there.
AND now, amazingly - ALL OTA HD/Digital/Subchannels, have ALL their correct OTA PSIP mappings, too! (finally got WAND weather on 17.2!)
Amazed that cc FINALLY got this one right! :eek: :eek: (at least on the Spfld/Decatur headend - I can't speak for the C/U one...) Maybe now they'll leave them ALONE for awhile.

I also have the V4100 and get all the local HD channels with no box, must be your tuner? They are still mapped like you posted also.

Can you double-check for me? I thought they were still there, but then I realized that I haven't watched them in months, and they were in fact missing.

Thanks,
Alex

Can you double-check for me? I thought they were still there, but then I realized that I haven't watched them in months, and they were in fact missing.

Thanks,
Alex

All still there:
3.1 WCIA (CBS) HD
3.2 MY TV (WCFN)
12.1 WILL (PBS) HD
12.2 WILL (PBS)
12.3 WILL (PBS Create)
15.1 WICD (ABC) HD
17.1 WAND (NBC) HD
17.2 WAND (weather)
21.1 WGN HD
23.1 WBUI (THE CW) HD
27.1 WCCU (FOX) HD
51.1 WEIU (PBS)
51.2 WEIU (PBS World)

This is Comcast classic package with no cable box here in CU.

All still there:
3.1 WCIA (CBS) HD
3.2 MY TV (WCFN)
12.1 WILL (PBS) HD
12.2 WILL (PBS)
15.1 WICD (ABC) HD
17.1 WAND (NBC) HD
17.2 WAND (weather)
21.1 WGN HD
23.1 WBUI (THE CW) HD
27.1 WCCU (FOX) HD
51.1 WEIU (PBS)

This is Comcast classic package with no cable box here in CU.

Don't you also have 12.3, WILL Create & 51.2, WEIU-Worldview???

We have them here, so I would think you guys would, too... ;) ;)

Well, something is indeed wrong. I have 3.1, 23.1, but the others are missing. I don't know what else to try. I also have Comcast in CU with no box.

Well, something is indeed wrong. I have 3.1, 23.1, but the others are missing. I don't know what else to try. I also have Comcast in CU with no box.

You did a FULL rescan, right?
(do not use "add digital channels" - it will not work properly)
Also, are you on full or limited analog basic cable? If you're on limited, they might have moved things around that your trap is knocking out improperly...

Yup, full rescan, starting from scratch. We have full cable, with no box. I'm going to try some plugging in a different TV to see what it finds.

Don't you also have 12.3, WILL Create & 51.2, WEIU-Worldview???

We have them here, so I would think you guys would, too... ;) ;)

Yes we do, I revised my post I just forgot those two. Thanks.

I just noticed that there is a 3 way splitter on the outside of the house, but we only use two of the outputs, so I am going to replace it with a two way one instead. That should boost the signal, but I'm not sure if it's the problem.

I recently noticed Comcast changed the delivery of my digital cable via cablecards so every channel is now digital (even the <99 ones). I can confirm this because TiVo interprets the channels differently if they're QAM256 vs analog tuning (removes recording options, gives more signal decoding debugging, etc.) The oldest recording I have that should have been analog (on WCCU 11) was from 5/10 and it was received/recorded digitally, so the transition was sometime before then.

This is significant because prior to this I was surprised the number of channels in the digital range (all the way up to 700s) were being told to analog tune (even though they were part of the digital cable package). I might have posted about this before. Only the newer channels were in digital. Channels that were both in basic analog and their digital tier (say ESPN at 25 and 506) were analog in both. Now they're digital in both (even the 25 channel tunes to the digital source). I like seeing 506 in digital; I kinda wish they would have left 25 analog.

I saw some value in recording non-HD things in the analog tier: giving my TiVo the choice on what recording quality to store. (Gotta stretch that harddrive as far as I can.) Now, because it's digital, I get the encoding/quality from Comcast. I haven't noticed if that's saved me disk space or not. (And I have no good way to compare the quality of their digital encoding of SD content versus the TiVo.)

Just an FYI. I know some cable markets are going all digital -- I wonder if updating the cablecard sources is the first step. Cleanup even more analog channels, make more signal space, etc. I still use my TiVo S2 (with an analog tuner) and haven't seen a channel reduction, but maybe it's coming for our area? Or maybe Comcast is finally putting digital cable on their digital tier: I always wondered if their digital boxes were getting analog signals or if they were slighting us CC users. I'm guessing if you have their digital box you get digital everything, and now on CC too.

-TBK

I recently noticed Comcast changed the delivery of my digital cable via cablecards so every channel is now digital (even the <99 ones).

Comcast actually went ADS in our region since at least last fall...its been this way for EVERY one with a digital box or cablecards.
Also an FYI, you do NOT need a box or cablecard for any of the digital versions of the limited channels, as they are NOT encrypted - any QAM tuner will pull them in as well. (except the numbering will NOT correspond to their box numbering, of course)

Can anyone confirm for me what programming is being carried on WSEC-DT 14-2 and 14-3?

Thanks.

- Trip

Can anyone confirm for me what programming is being carried on WSEC-DT 14-2 and 14-3?

14-2 is World, 14.3 is Create - same as what WILL-DT carries on their subs...

14-2 is World, 14.3 is Create - same as what WILL-DT carries on their subs...

Thanks. That's what I thought it had, but I was poking at SiliconDust last night and it showed MHz WorldView on 14-3. Must have been an error in their database.

- Trip

hey ctmooregottapee: Did you get anywhere with WBUI and their audio sync troubles? Have they fixed it? Are working on it? Acknowledge? Ooh they didn't ignore you did they?:eek:

If not, hopefully they get those resolved by the time fall premiers start. Personally the audio is out of sync enough that the shows are painfully unwatchable (mostly annoyingly so).

I've noticed a number of minor "hiccups" in the audio on WAND channel 17 lately (via DirecTV). It's been very noticeable during Conan O'Brien. Is this happening OTA as well? Or is it just a DirecTV issue?

Tomorrow is the "Big Day", DTV Conversion, attempt 2.

Everyone ready? :cool: :p

Anyone know what the final word is on the UHF->VHF change for the rimshot WCFN (w/ WCIA subchannel) signal out of Springfield? Will they flip the switch on this tonight? Since it's VHF, should it propagate further?

I don't care about OTA signals as much as I used to, now that Dish has our locals in HD. But it'll be fun to see if the UHF->VHF conversion makes any difference for picking up that WCFN (for WCIA) signal out here west of Springfield.

Anyone know what the final word is on the UHF->VHF change for the rimshot WCFN (w/ WCIA subchannel) signal out of Springfield? Will they flip the switch on this tonight?

I'd like to know myself, as I have several clients that really need the extra power on WCFN-DT.

Of course, WCIA's "wonderful" website doesn't say JACK about the switchover, other than some canned generic DTV info that every other station has as well. And considering what they are doing with WCFN in particular, you would think they would at least put a tidbit on it - nice job WCIA. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Heh, heh. Exactly. All the hoopla about being ready for the conversion and the delay, with countless commercials, coupons, editorials, comments, and much gnashing-of-teeth. All mostly irrelevant for all but the most clueless consumers.

But information that might actually matter to semi-tech savvy WCFN viewers - the fact that it's moving from UHF to VHF - isn't mentioned on their website. One would think that they'd at least have a small story about it. "If you live in the communities of X,Y,Z, you may be able to now receive WCFN/WCIA on our new channel. Look for us Friday afternoon on 13! Note, you may need a new antenna, see <insert link here> for the differences between UHF and VHF reception." Nope. Apparently it's not news-worthy to them. :rolleyes:

Their forum used to be at least a little bit useful and interesting. Nice to see they shut it down. :rolleyes: :confused:

I'd like to know myself, as I have several clients that really need the extra power on WCFN-DT.

Of course, WCIA's "wonderful" website doesn't say JACK about the switchover, other than some canned generic DTV info that every other station has as well. And considering what they are doing with WCFN in particular, you would think they would at least put a tidbit on it - nice job WCIA. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Heh, heh. Exactly. All the hoopla about being ready for the conversion and the delay, with countless commercials, coupons, editorials, comments, and much gnashing-of-teeth. All mostly irrelevant for all but the most clueless consumers.

But information that might actually matter to semi-tech savvy WCFN viewers - the fact that it's moving from UHF to VHF - isn't mentioned on their website. One would think that they'd at least have a small story about it. "If you live in the communities of X,Y,Z, you may be able to now receive WCFN/WCIA on our new channel. Look for us Friday afternoon on 13! Note, you may need a new antenna, see <insert link here> for the differences between UHF and VHF reception." Nope. Apparently it's not news-worthy to them. :rolleyes:

Their forum used to be at least a little bit useful and interesting. Nice to see they shut it down. :rolleyes: :confused:

I also didn't know that WCFN was going to be VHF. I thought WILL was going to be the only local channel that will be VHF. And I thought I was semi-tech savvy. I will have to admit I haven't paying close attention to this since I get my locals via Comcast.

I also didn't know that WCFN was going to be VHF. I thought WILL was going to be the only local channel that will be VHF. And I thought I was semi-tech savvy. I will have to admit I haven't paying close attention to this since I get my locals via Comcast.

Yep. According to sites like TVFool.com and from what I've heard from forum-chatting with the station manager. It is/had been/was on channel 53 (mapped to DTV 49). It is supposed to now be on channel 13 (still mapped to 49). That's a move from the UHF band to the VHF band (albeit high VHF).

Can anyone that lives in Springfield confirm if it's actually moved? I'm not seeing it over here in Jacksonville. I was under the impression that I probably would be able to receive it over here on 13 (and - what I really care about - the WCIA subfeed) post DTV transition. It doesn't appear so.

Again though, it doesn't really matter for me - Dish provides them all anyway now. Just would be nice to have CBS-HD on OTA, as that would ease my DVR-scheduling as I'd be able to record CBS-HD via OTA.

I can confirm WCFN-DT is now on RF channel 13. WCFN-DT made the switch about 1830 Friday night 6/12/2009. I am picking them up at 98 percent signal strength with a clearstream C4 UHF antenna in my attic in Chatham, IL. UHF antennas should be able to pick up channel 13 fairly well in Springfield and Jacksonville too i would think.

Can anyone that lives in Springfield confirm if it's actually moved? I'm not seeing it over here in Jacksonville. I was under the impression that I probably would be able to receive it over here on 13 (and - what I really care about - the WCIA subfeed) post DTV transition.

It most definitely DID move yesterday evening to RF13. And I'm pleasantly surprised to see it strong enough to peg my signal meters in at least 2 of my DTV tuners! And the feeds are exactly the same as they were before:
.1 WCFN-SD
.2 WCIA-HD

And just to show you how strong it it - I went to a client's house today on the west side of town (by Washington Park - LOTS of trees!) that only had rabbit ears on the ground floor of their house hooked up to a Samsung plasma. (I was there actually to hook their DISH network back up) So I went ahead & scanned their TV & it comes in great with no breakups to speak of. (I forgot to look at his signal meter)

Sounds like you should consider getting an all-band antenna, which would most likely solve your problem over there. Also, do you have a pre-amp - if not, you probably should consider one as well.

Congrats to WCIA for FINALLY, FINALLY making this happen - after giving Spfld the shaft for 5+ years!!!
Better late than never I guess...

Thanks to you both for the confirmation of the switch.

Yes, my current antenna is technically UHF-only, so it's no real surprise that I'm unable to get a faint (for me) VHF signal. I have cheap old VHF antenna in a closet somewhere - I'll have to take it out and see if it makes a difference.

My current setup is an AntennasDirect DB4 + ChannelMaster 777 Preamp. The antenna sits in a second story, east-facing window. It works pretty well, for not even being outside. I can reliably get WAND-DT over here, with 70-90% signal strength (depending on the weather). And that's enough for a perfect DTV signal. That's 76.6 miles away, according to TVFool.com. I think that's pretty good. :) WICS-DT and WRSP-DT, out of Springfield ~30 miles away, are usually pegged at 100%. :) It'd just be nice to be able to get all four major networks via OTA HD. ;)

As mentioned, it's not worth a great expense for me to try to pull in WCFN OTA, as I've got WCIA-HD via Dish. It would just make scheduling a little bit easier come football season. :o

the trick is to change the channel at commercial breaks and change back. the timestamps read by the box will resync the audio and video but it will slowly drift back out of sync

they have a played a bit with some settings. it looks like they think the telecine option was the culprit but it is not.

my log for the final 90210 ep on may 19 has telecine(24p flagging) off but the audio gaps and corrupted frames still exist just like they did in the prior week when the flagging was on

something is def set up wrong

i've been getting my CW HD from alternate sources for the time being; with the internetz we no longer have to suffer the faults of local broadcasters ;)

hey ctmooregottapee: Did you get anywhere with WBUI and their audio sync troubles? Have they fixed it? Are working on it? Acknowledge? Ooh they didn't ignore you did they?:eek:

If not, hopefully they get those resolved by the time fall premiers start. Personally the audio is out of sync enough that the shows are painfully unwatchable (mostly annoyingly so).

Probably a stupid question here, but a forum search didn't pull up anything recent. Why isn't WILL (channel 12) found in HD on Dish Network? I used to get 12.1 OTA before my antenna came down in a storm, but even the Dish Network web site only lists the big 4 locals as being in HD.

Thanks.

Probably a stupid question here, but a forum search didn't pull up anything recent. Why isn't WILL (channel 12) found in HD on Dish Network? I used to get 12.1 OTA before my antenna came down in a storm, but even the Dish Network web site only lists the big 4 locals as being in HD.

Because DISH is not carrying ANY PBS locals now... ;) ;)
If you want it now, you'll have to put up an antenna to get it.

Because DISH is not carrying ANY PBS locals now... ;) ;)
If you want it now, you'll have to put up an antenna to get it.

Actually, I came to ask this question because I stumbled upon a broadcast of something on WILL last night that I really wanted to see in hi-def. Since I've got only Dish feeding my channels, they had it at least last night! And they even had a second PBS channel (don't recall the number or station and I'm not at home right now) doing a fundraising drive talking about audiences in Springfield, Hannibal, Quincy, etc. -- sounds like an northeast Missouri/west central Illinois thing.

Interesting... :)

Actually, I came to ask this question because I stumbled upon a broadcast of something on WILL last night that I really wanted to see in hi-def. Since I've got only Dish feeding my channels, they had it at least last night! And they even had a second PBS channel (don't recall the number or station and I'm not at home right now) doing a fundraising drive talking about audiences in Springfield, Hannibal, Quincy, etc. -- sounds like an northeast Missouri/west central Illinois thing.

Interesting... :)

Dish carries WSEC (PBS Springfield) in SD that covers west central IL to the river.

hey Josh, unfortunatley the errors are still there and have been during the HD broadcasts, but not when you drop to the SD feed so it maybe be in the HD chain


I just wanted to let you know that we believe we have found the cause of this problem though I don't have a time frame currently for the solution.

Basically what it boils down to is an upgrade we made to one piece of equipment is incompatible with another piece of equipment unless it is also upgraded.

Per June 30 2009 Springfield State Journal Register :
http://www.sj-r.com/homepage/x737348054/AT-Ts-U-Verse-coming-to-Springfield

"Portions of the following communities were included in the initial rollout announced Monday by AT&T:

Springfield, Champaign, Urbana, Decatur, Danville, Leland Grove, Mt. Zion, Harristown, Savoy and Tilton. "

Any opinions on why some of the towns/portions of towns above were chosen by AT&T?

thanks josh

let me know when you have a fix and i'll let you know if it works

i know the upgrade cycle can be murder

I just wanted to let you know that we believe we have found the cause of this problem though I don't have a time frame currently for the solution.

Basically what it boils down to is an upgrade we made to one piece of equipment is incompatible with another piece of equipment unless it is also upgraded.

obviously $$$ - you go where the money is
but also just the typical infrastructure issues of what can be upgraded where, what needs to be now, and so forth, and a bit of internal politics.

i was in an area that had a nice cablesystem relative to the area only because the cable co upgraded their last, and tech had advanced quite a bit. dsl came quicker than norm as the prior switching equipment was so old in needy to be replaced.


Per June 30 2009 Springfield State Journal Register :
http://www.sj-r.com/homepage/x737348054/AT-Ts-U-Verse-coming-to-Springfield

"Portions of the following communities were included in the initial rollout announced Monday by AT&T:

Springfield, Champaign, Urbana, Decatur, Danville, Leland Grove, Mt. Zion, Harristown, Savoy and Tilton. "

Any opinions on why some of the towns/portions of towns above were chosen by AT&T?

This is an update from April. I would like to again thank Dishrich who definitely put me on the right track to solve my problems.

I decided to rewire the underneath of my house. I got rid of splitters and some Rg 59 and other wires which may have had questionable connectors.

I replaced it Commscope Rg 6 with the Thomas and Betts compression connectors. I also installed an Antronix drop amp.

Picture quality is even noticeably better on my CRTs which are still in SD analog.

The mapping however is different than I have seen posted.

12.1 is WCIA HD

94.3 is WILL HD

120.3 is WAND HD

I am getting all the HD broadcast channels which I should get and I am also getting many channels digitally which is not required for my Basic Service.

Comcast QAM:

I lost the C-U local ABC and NBC on 15.1 and 17.1, last night. Did this happen to anyone else?

It seems like they moved some other stuff around too, I did a full rescan but can't find any ABC or NBC locals anymore. WCIA, WILL, Fox, etc. are all still in the same spots.

Comcast QAM:

I lost the C-U local ABC and NBC on 15.1 and 17.1, last night. Did this happen to anyone else?

It seems like they moved some other stuff around too, I did a full rescan but can't find any ABC or NBC locals anymore. WCIA, WILL, Fox, etc. are all still in the same spots.

Comcast QAM:

I lost the C-U local ABC and NBC on 15.1 and 17.1, last night. Did this happen to anyone else?

It seems like they moved some other stuff around too, I did a full rescan but can't find any ABC or NBC locals anymore. WCIA, WILL, Fox, etc. are all still in the same spots.

The same thing here but they came back on and are still the same channel numbers.

Hmm.... they still aren't back for me. I am on basic cable using the QAM tuner in my Sony TV. Everything else shows up... just not local NBC and ABC.

AT&T is rolling out U-verse in my neighborhood (Robeson Meadows West). I think it is also being activated in several other SW Champaign areas and in Savoy. I have a long term contract with Dish and have been very happy with their service, so I'm not switching TV now. I did sign up for 18 mbps internet service and VOIP, which is just going to cost me just $20 more a month than POTS and 3 mbps DSL.

They're deploying just south of Bradley Ave across from Parkland

Is 5.1 audio on WCCU still not working? I've tried various different things on my MCE and it's still only picking up 2 channel audio. Any chance of 5.1 for football?

I see there are a couple of people reporting u-verse service in SoBra (South of Bradley :) ), and Robeson Meadows.

Does anyone have it in the mattis->prospect/kirby->springfield quad? I called att and they said they're extending it constantly in Champaign right now.

They also said they're very hush on the fiber location because of competition. Does this mean FIOS is expected? :confused:

Fiber to the home is not an option, according to installer last Saturday. I can't comment on TV service, but the 18 mbps internet measures up to spec.



They also said they're very hush on the fiber location because of competition. Does this mean FIOS is expected? :confused:

Fiber to the home is not an option, according to installer last Saturday. I can't comment on TV service, but the 18 mbps internet measures up to spec.

Yeah, what I meant was that they wouldn't reveal the location of their main fiber line. Proximity to the fiber line determines availability. Then they have to put extender boxes in (or something like that) to branch off. He said they're beige instead of green (for a regular line).

Just got off the phone with a friend in Fisher, outside of Champaign. He's locking KDSM-DT, 500 kw at 1900' AGL, from Des Moines, IA, with a 62 signal on his Dish Network HD box at 1 PM! He also noted new WLCF-LD from Decatur at 15 kw with an 84 signal, and W07DD-D is now digital with 3 subchannels in Champaign, with a whopping 280 watts and an 80 signal on his tuner.

The derecho/squall line has caused quite a temperature inversion and tropo duct behind it!

I don't have the luxury of even thinking about cable/fiber/anything. I am having problems with my OTA reception.

I am 8 miles straight north of Market Place Mall. I used to have my antenna inside my house and got perfect reception on all channels. Since moving my antenna to the roof I am having problems with 3.1/2 and 27.1 even though the antenna is pointing the exact same direction.

Obervations: 3.1/2 comes in much better during prime time hours. Do they change their ouput levels? My MCPC has the signal pegged. My TV shows it in the 40s during the day.

27 came in perfect inside the house even though the antenna was in a brick cubbyhole blocking the direction of the antenna. Now that it is outside it has problems. I am trying to be proactive before football season since those are the two Sunday channels.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Are you using a pre-amp? If so, it's very possible you might have too MUCH signal, since you now moved the antenna outside. Since the channels you seem to be having problems with happen to be the CLOSEST to you, that's why I'm bring this up.

If you are pre-amping, can you totally bypass the pre-amp (remove it totally out of the signal path) then try your reception again. (just unplugging it will NOT bypass it...)

If you are NOT pre-amping, you still could have too much signal - might try padding the signal down. (putting in an attenuator or a splitter to knock it down some) It might be worth a try...

... so no one in Champaign has comments on their Uverse service (general location and short review on quality)?

I AM using a preamp. I will get on the roof when time and bypass the preamp to see if that helps.

Hopefully that helps... It might hurt my ability to pick up WEIU and other distant stations, but that is to be determined

Thank you for your help.

Are you using a pre-amp? If so, it's very possible you might have too MUCH signal, since you now moved the antenna outside. Since the channels you seem to be having problems with happen to be the CLOSEST to you, that's why I'm bring this up.

If you are pre-amping, can you totally bypass the pre-amp (remove it totally out of the signal path) then try your reception again. (just unplugging it will NOT bypass it...)

If you are NOT pre-amping, you still could have too much signal - might try padding the signal down. (putting in an attenuator or a splitter to knock it down some) It might be worth a try...

Dishrich:

Can you get channel 15 (15 kilowatts) from Decatur in Springfield? Just curious. (Or can anyone else get 15 from Decatur, or 7 from Champaign?)

Can you get channel 15 (15 kilowatts) from Decatur in Springfield?

If you're talking about WICD-15, you ARE aware it's actually EAST of C/U anyway, in Homer - which is a VERY long distance away from Spfld. :confused:

But to answer your question - not myself, nor anyone else I know has been able to.
But, a few people HAVE actually pulled in WCIA-DT... :)

Anyone know if Comcast is running this MUN2 channel today for the US/Mexico soccer game?

http://www.ussoccer.com/News/Mens-National-Team/2009/08/Live-Coverage-Information-USA-Mexico.aspx

It has been reported that AT&T U-verse TV, Charter, Comcast and Time Warner Cable will be picking up mun2 for the day. Fans should check local listings to confirm availability.

Anyone know if Comcast is running this MUN2 channel today for the US/Mexico soccer game?

http://www.ussoccer.com/News/Mens-National-Team/2009/08/Live-Coverage-Information-USA-Mexico.aspx
Comcast had a message on cable boxes about this. I think it is available on channel 376 or 379. I'm not a soccer fan so I really didn't pay much attention to it.

Comcast had a message on cable boxes about this. I think it is available on channel 376 or 379. I'm not a soccer fan so I really didn't pay much attention to it.
Ah there it is, 379 and seems to be open as I don't subscribe to the spanish channels. Thanks!!

Bummer no HD for the Bears/Bills game on Fox. NFL network is blacked out to the Colts/Vikings blah! Suppose Chicago is the only market getting HD?

Bummer no HD for the Bears/Bills game on Fox. NFL network is blacked out to the Colts/Vikings blah! Suppose Chicago is the only market getting HD?

On D* in Springfield area and I got the Bear/Bill game in HD on the NFL network. :D

thanks josh

let me know when you have a fix and i'll let you know if it works

i know the upgrade cycle can be murder

Just wondering where WBUI is with this issue. Fall TV is going to be starting up soon...

i've noticed they've occasionally made changes, not sure whether intentional or not, but the problem seems to still be there. they did drop the bit rate back down to when they had a subchannel even though they didn't add a subchannel stream. progressive flagging was switched off and then back on about last week.


Just wondering where WBUI is with this issue. Fall TV is going to be starting up soon...

On my D* HR20 w/OTA, a couple of weeks ago, the listings that were appearing on 23.2, changed from the SD listings of the main channel, to totally different programming. (most appeared to be movies & old TV reruns like Mr. Ed) On a hunch I checked the program listings on www.this.tv & sure enough, they are the same!

Of course, there is NO 23.2 being broadcast currently, but the D* DVR's pull all OTA listing info from Tribune listings - if you go to zap2it, they are showing the same thing as well.

... so no one in Champaign has comments on their Uverse service (general location and short review on quality)?

While not in Champaign, I'm in Urbana just west of Lincoln Ave.
Haven't had the service long, obviously, but it's been a joy.

Picture clarity has been great, and it's the first STB-based television experience I can remember where the box and interface are able to keep up with my interactions.
There are always concessions, and losing Comcast's vast VOD collection was one, however having moved to an HD-DVR experience on U-verse for the same price I had previously on Comcast minus the DVR, I find recording shows I am interested in is a good replacement for the large VOD catalog.

Haven't played much with the other random doodads in the U-verse system, specifically U-bar, Weather on Demand, etc. I was upset to learn that the way U-verse is configured you cannot use their Web Remote Access or Mobile Remote Access (web & iphone DVR scheduling) unless you're also getting their internet package. That Yahoo/Internet link needs to be broken - these are great services that paying for TV service from them should be able to include.

Anyhow. Let me know if there's something more particular you're hoping to learn about the service.

DirecTV subs, are you now receiving WSEC in HD?

DirecTV subs, are you now receiving WSEC in HD?

Yes, it & WILL went HD several months ago...STILL waiting on WBUI-CW to go HD on D* :mad:

Yes, it & WILL went HD several months ago...STILL waiting on WBUI-CW to go HD on D* :mad:

Thanks!

Hey all, I just came across this forum after a quick Google search for QAM listings in Champaign. My question is, does anybody else get the following channels on their QAM tuner? I find it odd that I can find ESPN HD but not ESPN2 HD. Has anybody come across any other channels?

71-2 ESPN HD
79-2 Comcast Sportsnet HD
101-1 TBS HD
101-3 Big Ten Network HD
109-1,2,3,4 Big Ten Network overflow channels

When I do an auto channel search, a ton of other channels come up but when I go to them, they all either say "Scrambled" or "No Signal."

i've noticed they've occasionally made changes, not sure whether intentional or not, but the problem seems to still be there. they did drop the bit rate back down to when they had a subchannel even though they didn't add a subchannel stream. progressive flagging was switched off and then back on about last week.

I was watching Windtalkers this past weekend. Sound out of whack and every so often a 'tick-tick-tick-tick' noise. WBUI seriously needs to fix their broadcast, or I'm ditching CW shows..:rolleyes:

Hi,

I live on campus at U of I, and I'm trying to find a good HDTV antenna for my TV. I have a HDTV, but I don't have cable. Do you guys have any recommendations? Also, how many over the air channels should i expect to receive?

Thanks,
Pete

While not in Champaign, I'm in Urbana just west of Lincoln Ave.
Haven't had the service long, obviously, but it's been a joy.

...

Anyhow. Let me know if there's something more particular you're hoping to learn about the service.

Great review. Thank you. I was mainly looking to see if anyone actually has the service in the CU area. I'm just west of Prospect and apparently it's not here yet.

I'm surprised that there's VOD with Uverse. After your review, however, I'm most excited about the quick interface. Comcast is sooooo slooow and clunky.

Just for everyone's information, 23.2 THIStv Illinois is now broadcasting. You may need to rescan your tuners.

We are currently running a "soft launch" through the rest of the month so it's possible there may be outages or funny breaks as we fine tune the system.

THIStv is an over the air movie channel with classic movies and shows. for more information and listings you can visit http://www.this.tv/ .

--
Josh Miller
WRSP WCCU WBUI Engineering & IT

Thx for the info Josh - I was wondering when you guys were finally going to actually turn 23.2 on, to go with the prog guides you were already x-mitting. Yes, it's coming in fine - however, you guys with DirecTV HR20 or HR2x/H2x/R22 boxes w/the AM21 OTA tuner, you're probably going to have do "reset OTA settings" to delete them, then redo "initial setup" to get 23.2, as I had to do it on both my HR20's.

Also for Comcast subs on the Spfld/Decatur systems, THIS is supposed to be added on 9/14 to ch 232 - according to my bill I just received. I just rescanned my TV & it does NOT appear they have even added it yet in clear QAM - guess it won't be there until Monday as well.

i know your just the engineer tasked with adding the 'value added' sub channels, but if the audio issue isn't fixed, you may find the main channel bringing in barely enough money to keep the station afloat.

so far the sub channels on any station have made zero dollars
PQ is holding up ok though on the main channel so far, i'm not even gonna bother with the low rent stuff on the minor one.

Just for everyone's information, 23.2 THIStv Illinois is now broadcasting. You may need to rescan your tuners.

We are currently running a "soft launch" through the rest of the month so it's possible there may be outages or funny breaks as we fine tune the system.

THIStv is an over the air movie channel with classic movies and shows. for more information and listings you can visit http://www.this.tv/ .

--
Josh Miller
WRSP WCCU WBUI Engineering & IT

Hi and welcome Josh,

It's great that you joined up here. It's always appreciated when engineering interacts with the community here.

I was just considering trying to contact WBUI about 23.2. I am glad to hear you're fine-tuning. I expect you'll be juggling bitrates for a while to not degrade your primary signal.

FWIW, I have never seen frame rate reduction like I am seeing on your OTA sub. It does seem other stations have managed to lower the pq on their subs without such a distracting flip-book effect. I wish you luck and success in nailing it.

Take care,
Mike

Also for Comcast subs on the Spfld/Decatur systems, THIS is supposed to be added on 9/14 to ch 232 - according to my bill I just received. I just rescanned my TV & it does NOT appear they have even added it yet in clear QAM - guess it won't be there until Monday as well.

Big surprise - Comcast DIDN'T add this channel today, as their bill said they would... :rolleyes: :p

ouch!!!! WBUI: 5Mbps drop in primetime (almost 1/3 loss) AC3 audio chopped back to 348kbps

the audio errors didn't show up logged but i'm not watching GG up to date as i'm downloading other versions because of WBUI's audio glitch so i don't know if it is fixed. maybe they went back to the old fake 5.1

i'm not sure if they have a real stat muxer that runs VBR for each stream or if it is hardcoded which makes things worse. i have to run a few more tools to check.


Sequence Summary:

File Size Processed: 5.66 GB, Play Time: 01h:01m:58s
1920 x 1080, 29.97 fps (27.37 fps Telecine), 45.00 Mbps (12.27 Mbps Average).
Average Video Quality: 54.71 KB/Frame, 0.22 Bits/Pixel.
AC3 Audio: 3/2 Channels (L, C, R, SL, SR) + LFE, 48.0 kHz, 384 kbps.
Dialog Normalization: -27.0 dB, Center Mix Level: -3.0 dB, Surround Mix Level: -3.0 dB
0 of 101786 video frames found with errors.
0 of 116217 audio frames found with errors.
0 corrupted video bytes in file.
0.000000 seconds of video timestamp gaps.
0.000000 seconds of audio timestamp gaps.


Hi and welcome Josh,

It's great that you joined up here. It's always appreciated when engineering interacts with the community here.

I was just considering trying to contact WBUI about 23.2. I am glad to hear you're fine-tuning. I expect you'll be juggling bitrates for a while to not degrade your primary signal.

FWIW, I have never seen frame rate reduction like I am seeing on your OTA sub. It does seem other stations have managed to lower the pq on their subs without such a distracting flip-book effect. I wish you luck and success in nailing it.

Take care,
Mike

Yes, it & WILL went HD several months ago...STILL waiting on WBUI-CW to go HD on D* :mad:

Do you have WBUI in HD now?

Do you have WBUI in HD now?

Yes, from my antenna on the OTA tuner... :D ;)

If you mean thru the dish, I don't know myself, because my account is in the Chicago DMA.
I'll have to ask a friend or client that actually gets them & see.

LOL. Nice. I just noticed they have WBUI listed as HD on the local channel lookup tool now, but no one had said anything confirming it.

YES - WBUI-23 CW is DEFINITELY now in HD on D*!! :D :D
The Cards fans will now finally get the Sunday games in HD - kinda better late than never for this year anyway.
Sweet, at least now D* carries ALL our locals in HD (that do broadcast in HD ;) )

Awesome. So, is there any difference between WICS and WICD or is WICD pretty much a direct simulcast of WICS?

BTW, thx for the heads-up on WBUI - since I don't get them thru the dish, I would not have noticed this until I saw it on someone else's D* system. :) ;)

So, is there any difference between WICS and WICD or is WICD pretty much a direct simulcast of WICS?

They are actually 2 completely separate stations, that except for the local news & commercials, air the same network & syndicated prog. (semi-satellite) They do utilize the news departments on each other's newscasts. They are both owned by Sinclair.

WCCU-27 is a satellite station of WRSP-55, but is just a simulcaster.

Great review. Thank you. I was mainly looking to see if anyone actually has the service in the CU area. I'm just west of Prospect and apparently it's not here yet.

I'm surprised that there's VOD with Uverse. After your review, however, I'm most excited about the quick interface. Comcast is sooooo slooow and clunky.

No worries, glad you found it helpful.
There is VOD with U-verse, it's just not nearly as extensive as Comcast's.
Interestingly though, there are several "still in theatres" movies that you can purchase in the VOD section on U-verse which I find mildly appealing. The lack of fun, random, free HD VOD akin to Comcast is a but of a loss to me .. but I so far the user interface and overall experience from just a television aspect of U-verse has been great.

They did spend several hours for installation, but the technician was helpful and informative, asked all the right questions and didn't do anything with regard to wiring/etc without asking/or suggesting. Overall an amazing experience that I have never seen from Comcast or similar in the past.

--

Plenty of small downsides or complaints, but nothing major so far. Clearly biggest limitation on U-verse will remain to be its maximum of 2HD streams at a given time to any location. Works perfect for our single main TV/DVR setup, however and in common use probably wouldn't result in any issues.

As before, any questions- let me know. More than happy to answer anything about U-verse service that I can answer for you guys.

A few various points.

The first weekend on THIStv we had some issues with the PID information that was causing it to tune in oddly. For example, when I scanned for it on my home tuner, I picked it up with no video, though when I punched in 23.2 directly, it would come in just fine. This has been resolved.

As for bit rates and flip book effects, this is mostly limited to the local spots. We're testing out a few different ways of loading the spots onto the system. The original set up was an entirely file based re-encoding from our regular video servers but it seems to have caused the ugly stutter. Anything loaded directly on the machine in real time seems to not have this issue.

There is also some audio drop out issues on the local spots that may be related to this.

On WBUI 23.1, someone mentioned seeing changes in the audio stream a few times. We've been trying several different options in an attempt to fix the audio drift issue. We're pretty sure it's related to one of two pieces of equipment since everything looks to be in sync up to that point but checking the audio after that point is a bit of an issue since the audio an the video take different paths through the system (it's all embedded before that).

We've swapped out both suspect items but neither switch seems to have helped. In short, we're still working on it.

Also, one last thing, others have confirmed this but the higher ups did indeed finally make a deal with Direct TV to put WBUI on in HD.

Josh, the program guide for 55 on both Dish and Windows Media Center for Thursday evenings from 7 - 10pm has been showing up as To Be Announced for quite some time now. What the deal behind that? It sort of screws up recording. I haven't check today but as of last evening, next Thursday was showing up TBA.

Josh, the program guide for 55 on both Dish and Windows Media Center for Thursday evenings from 7 - 10pm has been showing up as To Be Announced for quite some time now. What the deal behind that? It sort of screws up recording. I haven't check today but as of last evening, next Thursday was showing up TBA.

Hey, maybe it was you, I just got off the phone with someone regarding this. I'll look into it and check with our other Engineer.

Hi,

I just wanted to say 23.2 is much improved, at least for us OTA.
It seems totally smooth and flip-book free, and I haven't noticed any quality loss on the main channel. It's been good for a couple days now.

I haven't analyzed the program stream like others. 384k sounds low, but many a DVD runs AC3 at that rate, 2.0 AC3 anyway.

When I was seeing the frame reduction flip book, it wasn't just on the local spots. It was on everything, just as noticable on the program. It seems totally gone now.

So, IMO, nice work Josh and crew; much appreciated.

Admittedly, I should say we hadn't been watching really any CW over the summer, but are starting to again with the new season.

Mike

I have a DISH DVR pal and I have not received PSIP program info from WBUI for a long time. I do get PSIP from WBUI from other TV's I have tried at work but the PSIP for the DVR is what I want.

I am also dissapointed WBUI added a movie network as I second channel. I do not like it. I was hoping for Retro TV. I thought that is that they were going to carry.

http://www.myretrotv.com/shows.html