My receiver reports WAND-DT as 4.1, no center.

None of the games on WRSP's schedule have been in 5.1 yet, including the upcoming weekend's games.

I also receive the email of what games are being presented in 5.1, so when we get one I'll post to give y'all a heads up.

My receiver reports WAND-DT as 4.1, no center.

I've noticed this as well, although I DID see 5.1 coming from WAND just the other night. That was the first time I'd seen it. It may have been when I was watching Alias. Not sure, though. I had trouble taking my eyes off the TV long enough to pay too much attention... ;)

Seriously, I think it was Alias or MNF.

MOST ALL of ABC's primetime is provided in TRUE 5.1, as is Monday Night Football. We do pass it on WOLO-DT.
I had that same problem watching Alias...:D

I think I have had enough time now to say that my new preamp helps
quite a bit on WRSP. It seems to work with 3-4 dB more attenuation
in front of it than my previous preamp, and 7-8 more than with
no preamp. This is approximate since it is 50 ohm and the older one is 75;
the antenna has an SWR of less than 1.5:1 at either impedance so
that is not an issue. This thing has a noise figure of 0.6 dB,
1.4 dB better than the Channelmaster 7775.

I am now no longer getting long periods of minor breakups
like before. I still get occasional short total losses, probably
due to airplanes.

Doug McDonald

I see and HD flag in the 'guide' for WCIA 3-1... But I did not see any quality that lead me to believe ther was any HD feed or content.... Maybe and error???

St. Louis vs San Francisco at 3pm in widescreen and 5.1 this Sunday on WRSP-DT

St. Louis vs San Francisco at 3pm in widescreen and 5.1 this Sunday on WRSP-DTWoohoo! Now THAT'S what I've been waiting for... very cool! :cool:

I this another of those 480i zoomed things, or is it real EDTV.

The Faux Widescreen productions from film look perfectly OK,
probably because they started at 24Hz.

The World Series did not look very good.

Doug McDonald

I this another of those 480i zoomed things, or is it real EDTV.

The widescreen production of NFL games will be the same as what you saw during the World Series.

Hi there:

Where in the Champaign area can I get the Channel Master 4228 8-Bay Bowtie UHF Antenna?


Thanks so much,

Geoffrey

Originally posted by ktFOX55/27
The widescreen production of NFL games will be the same as what you saw during the World Series.

I take it that since Fox has promised real 720p, that when they
get that going then at least the "front line" sports will be
true 720p, not an upconvert. Is this true?

Doug McDonald

I take it that since Fox has promised real 720p, that when they get that going then at least the "front line" sports will be true 720p, not an upconvert. Is this true?

To the best of my knowledge, yes.

WICD was off the air last night. They are installing full power and
full height, which will be tested today.

They hope to be on permanently at full height tonight, Friday. They
are NOT talking about full power for quite a while, even though they
will be able to.

They are waiting for equipment to go HD, and will have HD as soon as
it arrives.

But full height on their big tower will help.

Doug McDonald

Time to chime in as the resident C-U HDTV NEWBIE. First, thanks to Doug McDonald for taking the time to come out and test whether or not I'd be able to get signal at my location (far east Urbana, outside of city limits).

I had Good Vibes come out and put up a new roof antenna, replacing the ancient thing on my roof. Good thing too, since the old aerial basically disintigrated in the installer's hands. I haven't gotten the bill yet, so I don't have the model number of the antenna (I was told it was $80-85). There's no signal strength indicator on the integrated HD tuner in my Mitsubishi set, so I don't know how strong of a signal I'm receiving.

For the time being I opted not to have a rotor installed, instead the antenna is facing west.

The channels I am able to receive (at the moment) and the indicators that the Mits tells me about the signal:

003.01 WCIA-DT SD 4:3 Standard

015.01 WICD DT SD 4:3 Standard

017.01 WAND HD HD Standard

017.02 WAND SD 4:3 Standard

023.01 WBUI-DT Off the air as I type this, but I've pulled it in before.

049.01 WCFN-DT SD 4:3 Standard

Being new to this, I've got a few questions as to what is "normal":

1. Last night at about 10:30 I decided to see what was on WAND-HD, and got no signal at all. Do the channels go on and off the air sporadically for testing/upgrading/etc? Or are there set hours between which the various stations broadcast (I'm getting flashbacks to the days of my youth watching the VHF channels in black & white, playing the national anthem then going off the air to snow). I know that WAND only broadcasts true Hi-Def during weekday prime time.

2. Are any of the channels above broadcasting a digital surround audio signal?

3. The first night I was able to watch HD, I caught the Diane Sawyer interview with Britny Spears (Yeah, I know, no substance, but it was eye candy), and the majority of the program had vertical bars left and right; in other words the picture was crisp, but it was 4:3. Yet the local commercials as well as the ABC promos for the same interview seemed to be in 16:9. What gives?

I hadn't originally intended to get the Mits with the integrated HD OTA tuner, but I'm glad I did. With other stations gradually coming online, this can only get better...

Thanks in advance,

-Dan

WBUI is normally never off the air. WAND is on the air from roughly noon
to midnight. TitanTV has that backwards.

So if WAND was not on at 10:30 PM, you have problems.

The antenna should be aimed slightly south of west, see the sheets
I left with you.

You should try a preamp, indoor type like I showed you, the little silver box
that amplifies 50-800 or 50-900 MHZ 10 dB. Put it on the coax at the first connector nearest the antenna inside the house. For your run length
of RG6, that is good enough. Don't use an outdoor "inline" type as those
are either crummy (RadioSnack) or will overload when WCIA goes full power (7775).

If this does not make it reliable, you need a higher antenna.

Doug

Any word when they might start passing HD?????

I would also like to know about WMBD. When will they be HD and are they at full power?

Same goes for WCIA, When do they plan on being at least full power?

Kinda stinks that 1000000watts is a pay site now, I use to look at it quite often.

Thanks!

WCIA plans on HD and/or full power when Hell freezes over.

Doug

No HD anytime soon from these cheap *****, they also control the light bulb on a broomstick WYZZ Fox that they claim has been on the air for some time now, only one high def cow out in bfe can pull in the 2 watt signal. It is just as well, they have not mastered analog yet.


Originally posted by Big ETH
I would also like to know about WMBD. When will they be HD and are they at full power?

Same goes for WCIA, When do they plan on being at least full power?

Kinda stinks that 1000000watts is a pay site now, I use to look at it quite often.

Thanks!

Since the CBS affiliates in Champaign and Peoria seem to not want to do hi-def, does anyone know what the situation with channel 10 in Terre Haute is? I have pretty good luck with their analog signal up here.

I talked to WTHI today and they sounded like they didn't care either. Their antenna is only 500 feet high and broadcasting at 900KW They told me that it probably will be at least 2 years before they go full power. Check back in 6 months, and they might change their mind. So it looks like hell freezes over again.

Any idea how the negotiations between Insight Communications and WEEK are for delivering NBC programming on the Peoria and Bloomington cable systems?

Last I heard from Insight, they we "in negotiations" and expected to have WEEK on their HD package very soon. I had heard that WEEK wanted more $ for their HD feed. Insight thought it was included in the contract they already had with WEEK, to deliver their SD feed.

ABC is available on the package now. CBS doesn't even broadcast in HD. If two of the three majors were available in HD, it would make the package worth upgrading to.

If not, ota is probably the way to go, but I'd hate to buy an HD box, antenna, etc. and find out that I could get the same thing through the existing cable for a couple of extra bucks a month.

Can anyone tell what HDTV they are getting OTA in Morton and what antenna I will need to get it.The only place I have for an antenna is in my storage/furnace area in my basement.Thanks Steve

Originally posted by bigbone61554
Can anyone tell what HDTV they are getting OTA in Morton and what antenna I will need to get it.The only place I have for an antenna is in my storage/furnace area in my basement.Thanks Steve

Morton should give you great reception of all the Peoria stations. I'm not sure a basement antenna will do the job however.

Any room in the attic?

Thanks for the reply.I could put it in the attic. Would I be able to get any channels from other areas or just Peoria/Bloomington.

You may be able to get WAND and WBUI from Decatur and possibly
WRSP from Springfield and me of the Quad Cities staions some of the
time.

Does WHBF(CBS) in Quad Cities pass through HD.

Damn WMBD!

Originally posted by Chilli_Dog
WSEC (PBS - Jacksonville) is very close to going live. They've been testing the last couple of days. Their 1080i feed looks pretty sweet. :D

Hi Everyone,

I am a newby here. I am happy to find this forum, it is great to talk to others in the same area trying to achieve the same thing, DTV. I can't believe the number of post in this thread alone!

Regarding WSEC, I can't pull them in. I did get them one night but it was a very weak signal, mid 20's. I don't think they are actually broadcasting every night? I emailed to ask them if they were on and got a quick response.

"WSEC DT began regular transmission on November 4th... it's on the air from 2pm to 11pm daily with two channels (14-1 & 14-2) of programming. "

Anyone receiving this channel regularly? :confused:

Right now I can get in DTV:

WAND
WBUI
WICS
WRSP
WCFN
WCIA
and late at night WEEK

Talked to Insight-Bloomington today. WTVP 46-4 is back on 764 correctly. Several other pieces of new good news:

- Bravo HD should be up in several weeks on 774.

- The new HD PVR is going to be available in our market. Their goal is before Christmas. See this thread where the release was posted:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2833847

Originally posted by dgreen
Talked to Insight-Bloomington today. WTVP 46-4 is back on 764 correctly. Several other pieces of new good news:

- Bravo HD should be up in several weeks on 774.

- The new HD PVR is going to be available in our market. Their goal is before Christmas. See this thread where the release was posted:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2833847


I am in Bloomington, Illinois and also talked with Insight. We will be getting the new Motorola 6280 DCT, the one with the 80 GB built in PVR and, get this, I'm told by very reliable sources that the DVI WILL be activated should we choose to use it. That's very good news as I should be getting our new Samsung HLN437W by (hopefully) the middle of December. I hope to install the new HDTV capability as soon as it is available since we only get basic and the next step up in cable service.

Originally posted by Stevenage
Regarding WSEC, I can't pull them in. I did get them one night but it was a very weak signal, mid 20's. I don't think they are actually broadcasting every night? I emailed to ask them if they were on and got a quick response.

"WSEC DT began regular transmission on November 4th... it's on the air from 2pm to 11pm daily with two channels (14-1 & 14-2) of programming. "

Anyone receiving this channel regularly? :confused:


I've been receiving WSEC on a regular basis since they went live. Most of the time, I have no problems with reception. Only occasionally do I have to deal with breakups. I'm actually rather surprised, since my antenna is in my attic and it's pointed towards Springfield / Decatur, rather than Jacksonville. I wouldn't think you'd have any problems receiving their signal since you're in Springfield (depending on your setup).

WRSP seems to have an extremely sick encoder, as usual
it happens during a football game.

Is there any way to call them to complain? I tried the main
number and no answers anywhere.

Doug

Problem wasn't the encoder but it is taken care of.

After business hours, the phone system will allow you to leave a message.

Thanks for getting our Fox picture back.

But I do note ... after it reappeared, 16:9 material was being pillarboxed,
and many TVs/STBs, mine included, can't un-pillarbox things. So
we had tall narrow people.

Doug

Could anyone tell me what the channel numbers for the following digital stations are?

WAND
WBUI
WCIA
WICD
WEIU
WILL

Thanks so much for your help.

Anyone have no MNF. I can't get a signal on 19-1

No OTA HD signal from WHOI, huh? No WHOI HD via Insight cable on channel 760 either on Monday night.

I called Insight this afternoon. They "reset" my HD cable box and channel 760 is back.

Originally posted by gels
Could anyone tell me what the channel numbers for the following digital stations are?

WAND
WBUI
WCIA
WICD
WEIU
WILL

Thanks so much for your help.


Go to http://www.titantv.com They have all that info.
WAND- (18) 17-1, 17-2 (WEATHER)
WBUI- (22) 22-1, 23-1
WCIA- (48) 3-1, 48-1
WICD- (41) 15-1, 41-1
WEIU- (50)
WILL- (9)

I've read the last couple of months on this thread and am trying to get a feel for what HD will be available here in Champaign. I've decided on either the 43" or 46" Samsung DLP RP and now need a good signal to feed it. I know WAND is transmitting ABC's HD shows and that WILL will be on the air for PBS fairly soon. One poster suggests that WCIA has ordered their HD equipment and will soon go full power, while another suggests a snowfall in hades will likely proceed that event. Anyone know the story on WCIA's plans? I assume that if all the other stations go HD, that will put some pressure on our NBC affiliate to follow suit.

Any help would be appreciated. If OTA HD of most programming is not going to be available here for some time, my next choice is the so-called "Canadian Solution," but I'd prefer OTA since I can get a DVI equipped HD STB.

MIKE

Well, I answered my own question, or at least part of it. I called WCIA engineering and was told it would likely be years before they do HD. Corporate headquarters makes those decisions and it takes about a year after a HD commitment is made to get all the needed equipment in place and operable. No commitment has yet been made, so it will be at least a year.

I also visited Insight to see if they were making deals with other network stations to transmit their HD signals (Terre Haute, maybe). The person I spoke with was both clueless and indifferent and could only say that Insight corporate headquarters might be in such negotiations, but he didn't really know and didn't volunteer to follow up with headquarters.

It looks like I'll give the Canadians a chance at my HD business.

MIKE

mraub,

You are correct in that WAND is already broadcasting HD. WICD is waiting for some equipment and should be broadcasting HD by March '04. WILL should be up and going with their HD signals early next year also. That leaves WCCU & WCIA as the 2 villians for us HD lovers. WCCU has been fighting and dragging their heels on just getting a DT signal out. They're probably at least a year away from that. As for WCIA, WHAT A DISAPPOINTMENT they are. They advertise themselves as the leaders of broadcasting in central Illinois, but they have definately dropped the ball on this one. My understanding is, it is the owners of WCIA (not CBS) that is resisting the transformation to HD. CBS carries the most, and best (1080i) HD programming but we in central Illinois will be far behind markets of the same size and smaller. I'm fortunate that I can at least pull in CBS HD signals from Indy on many nights. I can't say enough, to anyone from WCIA that might scan this forum occasionally, "What a dissapointment you are" Shame on you for "trailing the pack" on HD!

Originally posted by mraub


It looks like I'll give the Canadians a chance at my HD business.

MIKE

What do the Canadians have to offer?

Ummm, I wouldn't go there, unless you've got a spare $3500. laying around.

It looks like less than $1000, see this link:

http://www.global-cm.net/CAN/canadiansolution.html

Since it looks like CBS is the only fly in the ointment to getting most OTA HD programming, I wonder if the CBS station in Terre Haute, IN is HD yet? I don't I have a shot at Indy OTA from Champaign, but maybe Terre Haute, if they are full power and have a good, high antenna. Anyone tried this yet?

OF course this leaves out ESPN-HD. That is available through Insight, but I don't know if Insight's HD box also receives terrestrial signals. I'd bet not, but you never know.

Someone needs to write a letter to the News-Gazette pointing out that on their 50th anniversary, WCIA is still using the same technology they started out with 50 years ago (well, they did finally add stereo). I'd do it, but I work with Jennifer Roscoe's husband and don't want to start any conflicts, though I've told Jennifer many times what a cheesy outfit she works for. Maybe a little public embarrassment would shame them into doing the right thing.


MIKE

I have some additional information, but don't yet have the equipment to test it out. WTHI in Terre Haute, IN is broadcasting all of CBS' HD offerings in HD, but not at full power yet. They transmit the HD from a tower on their station in downtown Terre Haute, which I figure is about 60 miles from my house, as the crow flies. The engineer I spoke with thought there was chance I could get their signal with a high gain directional antenna, perhaps supplemented with a low noise line amplifier.

Does anyone have the right gear to see if the CBS signal can be received in Champaign from WTHI?

On anther note, Insight says government regulations forbid them from acquiring a CBS HD signal from another station. Sleazy broadcast industry lobbyists at work, no doubt.

MIKE RAUB

At full power and height WTHI should be barely doable in Champaign,
about the same as WRSP is now.

With their present setup, it's hopeless.

CBS is in a conspiracy to prevent people from seeing them in HD.

Doug McDonald

Doug,

You may be right, but I wonder if anyone has tried it. People in Danville are reporting reasonable reception from Indy, which is a lot further away than 60 miles (though I suspect most Indy stations are full power). I have a very high house and probably could get an antenna up 40' high in the attic and if I put it on the high part of roof outside, 50'.

As I say, you may well be right, but I'd still like to hear from someone who has tried it.

MIKE

I can get a decent analog signal on channel 10 from time to time. I just looked for a signal on digital 24 and got nothing. I'm in s/w Champaign for what it's worth.

Doug's comments notwithstanding, I get a 100 signal on digital 44 WRSP from Springfield 24x7. So if his comments are accurate about WTHI, maybe they can be received up here once they go to full power. I sure hope we can get them up here because they seem to be the only option for CBS-HD in Champaign.

Originally posted by mraub


Does anyone have the right gear to see if the CBS signal can be received in Champaign from WTHI?



Yep,it's just not "in" Champaign <g>

http://community-2.webtv.net/GregBarker/CurrentUHFTower/

Seriously,I doubt very much if the stuff I use would pick up WTHI on a consistent basis at 60mi.However,when they go to the top height and 1000Kw,60-70mi should be do-able with a decent antenna setup.I doubt it'll be any time soon they go to full power though.

Lance,

That doesn't sound promising. What type and height of antenna did you try with? WTHI's engineer said there were no immediate plans to increase power, since that will involve new equipment at their main antenna site 15 miles South of Terre Haute.

MIKE

If that's the case then I have to agree with you, it's doesn't look promising. This really sucks because with being able to get FOX wide-screen from Springfield and with the local NBC station doing hi-def sooner rather than later, CBS is the only major network that we can't get here in central Illinois in high definition.

I have an old Wineguard fringe type antenna mounted on a 40' tower.

A fringe antenna 40' up is probably all I could do too, so I guess that option is out for me too. It looks like I'll probably go with one of the Canadian providers. That will give me all network HD (including Fox and PBS). My only hesitancy is that the receiver and dishes will run me about $800 and the receiver has no OTA option nor DVI output. However, a PVR will likely be offered by the middle of next year.

While I have the attention of some CU videophiles, I wonder if anyone can recommend a good satellite installer in the area. Since this will be a non-standard installation (i.e. not DISH or DirectTV) I'll probably need someone who really knows what they are doing.

Thanks.

MIKE

When I said WRSP is barely doable in Champaign, I meant
you need good equipment. I too have it reliably, 24/7, and so far
the lowest margin I have measured is 7 dB.

[EDIT] ... 7 dB is margin after the preamp. I'll have to redo the
measurement before the preamp using a proper 50 ohm attenuator,
since this is a 50 ohm antenna and preamp.


And this is with an INDOOR antenna .... albeit a huge one ....
at 24 feet. But I'm using a $106 GaAsFET preamp with a 0.6 dB
noise figure. I've had periods of loss with a cheap preamp, and
when Ch 48 goes full power the folks with 7775 preamps are going
to have serious overload, especially those in the northern part
of the city where 48 and 44 will be almost the same direction.
The GaAsFET one will not overload.

I'm almost in Savoy, and I and people there will have it well to the
side.

I think it is time we start calling Nexstar corporate headquarters
and complining about WCIA. Their web address is www.nexstar.tv
[sic]

Doug

Try emailing the corporate honchos at psook@nexstar.tv, dlammers@nexstar.tv, rstolpe@nexstar.tv, and bjones@nexstar.tv.

I sent them an email and got a VERY fast response:

For now we intend to provide the current level of service, which is standard
definition digital. I have a digital set, and the difference between 1080i
and 480i is hardly discernable to me. It does make a difference on sports.

We have federally mandated dates at which we have to provide certain levels
of service, and we will be compliant at all times. The cost of installing
equipment to reach "High Definition" is in the millions, and our company
faces this problem at 41 other locations. Hence you can imagine the cost of
upgrading 42 facilities. We're doing the best we can.

I won't post the guys name, but just the fact that he can't tell the difference between 480i and 1080i speaks volumes of their direction.

I sent something to them. We shall see if the brushoff letter
is generic.

Doug

Maybe we should all chip in and get this guy from Nexstar an eye exam and/or an alignment of his television set. And to think there are people in 41 other markets who are putting up with the same nonsense.

Once CBS becomes the only network still in SD in this market, you'd think the network would apply much pressure to have their affiliate upgrade to HD. If hope WAND and WICD (when they finally go HD) launches ads campaigns trumpeting their new technology. In talking to people, I think there are going to be a surprisingly high number of HD capable TV sets sold this holiday season.

Another avenue of complaint is with the FCC. Entities who hold broadcasting licenses are obligated to operate in the public interest and the FCC takes comments from the public into account (though probably not much) when a station's license comes up for renewal.

Has anyone tried to get a waiver from WCIA so than can get a CBS high definition feed from DISH?

MIKE

Anyone still getting breakups in WRSP's picture? I've noticed this since they went live, especially during football games. I also noticed occasional breakups during primetime the other night (watching Nutty Professor and Drew Carey). It's wasn't horrendous, just enough to be annoying. Just wondering if it's still a station problem, or if I'm possibly being overloaded on signal (since I'm fairly close to the tower).

Originally posted by Chilli_Dog
Anyone still getting breakups in WRSP's picture? I've noticed this since they went live, especially during football games. I also noticed occasional breakups during primetime the other night (watching Nutty Professor and Drew Carey). It's wasn't horrendous, just enough to be annoying. Just wondering if it's still a station problem, or if I'm possibly being overloaded on signal (since I'm fairly close to the tower).

I am getting breakups or drops too. I have also noticed that signal during 24 is snowy and not very good. Also, the Bears game was in wide screen but did not look hd, can this be?

Originally posted by mraub
Has anyone tried to get a waiver from WCIA so than can get a CBS high definition feed from DISH?

MIKE

I tried about 18 months ago to get a waiver from WMBD (the CBS affliate in Peoria--also owned by the beloved Nexstar) and no dice. They had a GM at the time which was somewhat willing to discuss HD but I don't think he is there any longer. As far as I'm concerned, we have made huge progress with HD availability in central IL. I'm especially pleased with Insight's HD offerings. But missing CBS from any direction is a major problem. And especially with CBS offering so much regular programming and sports (NCAA Bball, NFL, the SUPERBOWL).

On another note, I get WRSP Fox very good here in Bloomington. But also continue to see the periodic drop outs (freezes) the rest of you have discussed.

On another note, I get WRSP Fox very good here in Bloomington. But also continue to see the periodic drop outs (freezes) the rest of you have discussed.
I noticed several drop outs / freezes during the Billboard awards tonight. It's too bad, since the overall picture quality was pretty good.

This is really starting to get frustrating with WRSP. I wish they'd get this worked out. It ruins what would otherwise be a very pleasurable viewing experience.

We are still working on the problem with glitches and making some progress in solving the problem. It's one of those things that would probably be easier to fix if something would just flat out break. Believe me when I say NO ONE wants this problem solved more than I do.

We are still working on the problem with glitches and making some progress in solving the problem. It's one of those things that would probably be easier to fix if something would just flat out break. Believe me when I say NO ONE wants this problem solved more than I do.
Ken, thanks for responding. I'm glad you guys are actively working on this. I'm sure it gets very frustrating, especially when it's difficult to track down the exact piece that's causing the problem.

Good luck to you. Hope you're able to track it down soon!

signal during 24 is snowy and not very good. ?

Snow?

Also, the Bears game was in wide screen but did not look hd, can this be?

Currently, the widescreen programming that FOX provides to us is Enhanced Definition (480p). Look for HD (720p) programming to begin later in 2004. Prime time shows will most likely lead the transition to HD.

"Snow" in 24 is commonly known as film grain. FOX's transmission path
is digital from tape to your receiver, so that's probably what you're seeing.
Quite often, this is an intended look by the producers. It has been an often discussed problem between affiliates and FOX, especially with Boston Public.

Thanks a lot for you responses Fox Guys! I was wondering if the "snow" was intentional. I don't watch Boston Pub but I will check it out now.

The Billboard Awards did look great. The best I have seen on Fox so far. Keep it up! I feel lucky to be getting the HD broadcast anyway, being a small market and all. Thanks!

I have not gotten any replies from the emails I sent to those people
at Nexstar. I think that they must be unhappuy that we, the lowly
and unimportant (potential) viewers, are bothering them.

Of course if we were major stiockholders ....


Doug McDonald

WICD (41) has been down this Sunday (12/14/03) afternoon. I wonder if there's any chance it's because they're installing their HD equipment?

Doug,

If you make contact with anyone from Nexstar see what their attitude to giving waivers to get the HD feed from DISH is. Someone reported that the Peoria CBS station refused to give one, but maybe there is some flexibility with all the complaints they've received. They are going to be getting more complaints soon. Four of my co-workers have bought or are planning to buy HD-capable TV's for Christmas and I suspect this is going to be a huge season for widescreen HD sets everywhere. There are going to gripes when they find out they can't get either the Superbowl or the NCAA tournament in HD.

MIKE

Don't expect to get waivers.

I don't really expect a waiver, but you never know until you ask. I can't imagine CBS is happy with Nexstar's back to Morse code attitude to technology, since that leaves them as the only non-HD network in a lot of markets. They are probably the best source of pressure that may produce some results. I have e-mailed my dissatisfaction to CBS and would suggest others do likewise.

MIKE

WICD is installing their high power transmitter and will be back on
soon. They will not, however, be turning it on soon.

All HD stuff is ordered and they are waiting for it to come in.
This will take months. When it all arrives, they will then be on
in a few days with HD.

Doug McDonald

Originally posted by jdmcdonald
WICD is installing their high power transmitter and will be back on
soon. They will not, however, be turning it on soon.

All HD stuff is ordered and they are waiting for it to come in.
This will take months. When it all arrives, they will then be on
in a few days with HD.

Doug McDonald

Thanks for the update Doug.

According to an article in the News-Gazette a couple of weeks ago, WICD said they expected to go HD in about March, so it sounds like they are right on schedule. Hopefully, NBC will keep increasing their HD programming.

MIKE

Hi everyone.

Sent messages to Nexstar management about lack of HD content on WCIA. Received form back.

Here's the message I sent:

I am a resident of Savoy, IL who has invested a great deal in High
Definition television reception equipment. The recent article by Rich
Warren in the News Gazette that indicated that WCIA has no current
plans to pass the CBS HD signal is very distressing. WCIA used to be
the TV leader in this market; now they lag behind WICD (expected to
begin HD service in March) and WAND, which has been offering HD service
since last January. Your intransigence on this issue also means that
viewers in the Champaign TV market are unable to watch CBS's great HD
sports programming, and in particular, will miss the HD presentation of
the SuperBowl this January (not to mention the fact that we have
already missed the NCAA Final Four from last March/April).

I would like to know whether WCIA has any current plans to begin HD
broadcasting. If not, then I plan to take steps to secure an HD CBS
signal from other sources and WCIA will have one less person in its
Nielson ratings. My own defection may not matter much to you, but as
sales of HD television sets expands this holiday season, you might want
to consider the broader effect of viewers turning to ABC and NBC for
their high-def "fix."

Sincerely,

John D. Colombo
708 Vista Drive
Savoy, IL

Here is what I got back:

Pursuant to FCC requirements, Nexstar Broadcasting is transmitting a standard definition digital broadcast signal for stations WCIA / WCFN. Stations may broadcast both analog and digital signals until at least December 31, 2006, when they may be required to abandon the analog format, provided that 85% of households within the Champaign-Decatur-Springfield DMA have the capability to receive a digital signal.

Digital transmissions currently may be low-power, but full-power transmission will be required by a future date to be established by the FCC. The FCC left the decision of which digital format to be transmitted up to individual broadcasters. Nexstar Broadcasting has made a decision to broadcast standard definition digital signals until such time as the FCC mandates high definition broadcasts or the viewer base supports the additional costs associated with transmitting a high definition signal.

Nextstar Communications

I strongly urge folks on this forum to e-mail, write (better) or phone (better yet) the management at Nexstar and let them know your feelings about HD. In my case, I sent the following back after getting the above form reply:

Dear Rick,

Thank you for the standard form Nextar policy on high-definition broadcasting. I have enjoyed WCIA's programming for many years; perhaps I will enjoy it once again in the future. Until then, I will not be watching WCIA nor the local ads, which produce revenue for your station. I look forward to the day when WCIA may once again claim technological leadership in its market.

John Colombo

In the meantime, those of you desperate for CBS-HD might want to look into getting a gray-market subscription to Bell ExpressVu from Canada, which carries both the Boston and Seattle HD stations. It is some amount of trouble, but I'll be watching the CBS football playoff games and the SuperBowl in HD this season, WCIA be damned.

John C.

Hi,

Saw an artical in the Champaign paper today saying Dis* Network will be offering local channels to our area starting very soon... (a few days?).
I have DS*. :(
The did say that DS* planned to offer local channels by the end of the year, but is behind schedule, but maybe first quarter of next year.
Did mention digital signals... I wonder if this means HD on channels that offer it such as 17-1??

Any more details?
MigMan

Neither Dish nor DirecTV carry HD locals; only the SD signals.

John C.

Thanks for the (bad) news. Any chance they will become 480p widescreen (ED) TV? (I doubt it).

Thanks, MigMan

For Bloomington Insight cable subscribers--

BravoHD appeared within the last several days on 774. Mostly reruns, but looks like several quality shows and more importantly--add another channel to the mix!

If my thinking is wrong *please* correct me. 8-)

Reading posts in the E* forum it appears that since I do have a waiver for CBS ( I live outside of Springfield) and I receive it from Chicago I am eligible for CBS in HD since I receive the Chicago feed. One problem here is that since I am on Dish 500 I am only pointing at 2 satellites right now and this HD CBS signal will reside on a satellite I am not equipped for right now.

The wildcard is if WMBD gets there act together I possible could pick them up. I *have* to get the Superbowl in HD. AAAAHHHHH.

T

I asked Insight Cable when the planned to add WEEK (NBC) to their HD lineup here in Bloomington, il.

They told me that they needed NBC's permission to pass the HD signal and that should be granted soon.

The answer changes every time I ask them, except for the "soon" part.

The HD market must be so insignificant that nobody - broadcasters, service providers, etc. - seem to think it warrants any priority at all.

When I had my Insight HD cable box installed (mid Sept I think, several weeks after the initial rollout), the serviceman indicated that he had been doing 4 to 5 installs a day, and that others were doing the same. He seemed to infer that there was a signficant population. I'm sure it pales to non-HD, but I was surprised that it could be high. He also mentioned that a number of customers were confused as to what they needed as far as HD sets, and what having HD service really meant (i.e. all channels aren't in HD!!!)

On another note, I called today about the 6208 HD PVR. They just said it was on hold and to try back in two weeks. Anyone have any info on this for Bloomington?

The PVR is the selling point for me. I know content will eventually arrive via HD, but having the locals that do broadcast in HD would certainly be a big plus for the service.

Does anyone know if WAND will be broadcasting Saturday's NFL playoff games in HD?

-Dan

TitanTV says WAND will have two games in HD.

Heavy, I got the Splat terrain software working. You are
above the horizon for WBUI, but only by 9 feet at 1.16 miles.
You are some 300 feet below it for WRSP (at 4/3 earth radius),
which is some 150 feet worse than me. This is bad for WRSP.
You are well above for all other stations except WAND, which is
close to WBUI.

Doug.

Just reflecting on the the past couple days of NFL football...

WHOI (Peoria): When I got to the first Sat NFL game (about midway through 1st quarter), we were HD. I saw over on another thread that AVS member Benplace had to call them (thanks!) But it looked good. Even an HD skycam.

WHOI then WAND (Decatur): The second Sat game picture was abit darker for me but still very good. 5.1 came through fine. But with about 4min to go, it went back to SD. This was true both on Insight cable and OTA. I switched to WAND and it was still HD. Even though the game was basically over anyway, not sure what happened to Peoria.

WRSP: For the first game on Sun, I had lots of brief freezes (per usual) but also some total breakups loosing sound and video. Not sure if that was the weather or the source. But it was wide screen and in 5.1. ED is better than pure analog!

WMBD (Peoria) or WCIA (Champaign): Hmmm. Well, we all know the story here. Quite disgusting that we can't get either of these stations to budge. And to think CBS has the Superbowl.

So I guess we have come along way in Central Illinois from just a year ago. Many thanks to those stations who have stepped up to the plate. Your efforts are appreciated. But we also have plenty of room for more improvements.

Now onto the college game--looks good from the intial shots.

WRSP: For the first game on Sun, I had lots of brief freezes (per usual) but also some total breakups loosing sound and video. Not sure if that was the weather or the source.
I had a lot of breakups as well, and I'm only 10 miles or so away from the towers. I guess they're still trying to track down the cause of this. I hope so, anyway. I enjoy watching sports in ED (although not as much as HD), but it gets pretty frustrating when the picture / sound breaks up all the time. My wife usually asks me to change it back to the analog channel.

Does anyone else notice that 19's SD picture is horrible compared to 17's? Also, last night during the Sugar Bowl, 19 completely lost HDTV for the last five minutes or so, I switched to 17 and the picture was perfect. Is anyone else getting bad audio from 28? It seems as though it chooses the surround speakers in my system for the mains and vice versa. I usually need to use a DSP mode on the audio receiver or switch to 55.

Don

I get breakups, they are very strong off the back of my antenna at least 45 miles away, I have to choose between breakups and 5.1 sound or KTVI out of St. Louis with few breakups (although I was getting them during 24 a lot a few weeks ago) and no 5.1 sound.

This is with a Samsung TS160.

Originally posted by Chilli_Dog
Anyone still getting breakups in WRSP's picture? I've noticed this since they went live, especially during football games. I also noticed occasional breakups during primetime the other night (watching Nutty Professor and Drew Carey). It's wasn't horrendous, just enough to be annoying. Just wondering if it's still a station problem, or if I'm possibly being overloaded on signal (since I'm fairly close to the tower).

I'm restraining myself from calling WILL every day to ask how they
are doing with DTV. They're supposed to be on by mid-month.

Anybody know anything? Is their new antenna up? The old
one is a red and white painted plastic tube radome, I think the
new one looks like a hedgehog. The 12 things down on the tower
proper are WILL-FM.

Doug MCDonald

Originally posted by jdmcdonald
I'm restraining myself from calling WILL every day to ask how they
are doing with DTV. They're supposed to be on by mid-month.

Anybody know anything? Is their new antenna up? The old
one is a red and white painted plastic tube radome, I think the
new one looks like a hedgehog. The 12 things down on the tower
proper are WILL-FM.

Doug MCDonald

An update on WICD would be nice also. :D

I do not think the WILL antenna is installed yet. The Jan/04 issue of "Patterns" (you are a friend of WILL, right?) mentioned that the antenna was going to be installed soon and that WILL-TV would be off the air for about two days while this happened. They also mentioned that one could check www.will.uiuc.edu for more info, but I've been unable to find any there.

I know the Director of Broadcasting at WILL. I'll see if he can get us some more info and I'll report back.

I'm not a "friend" of WILL-TV, because I can't get a good picture
because of impulse noise. Their digital should be strong enough
to overcome this. I was a friend of WILL-FM until they started
airing so many obnoxious commercials.

Doug McDonald

In some locations, as I have found from experience, impulse noise can
be so strong as to overcome even the strongest signals, and the error
correction in the STB's will be unable to overcome this.

Here's the response I got:

Hi, Dale--I don't have an exact date for the conversion to digital right
now....but I expect to have one in about a week, and will let you know!
Don

About WILL: apparently they have let Jan. 15 slip and are
talking middle Feb.

Doug McDonald

Found this in the CBS HD thread in "HDTV PROGRAMMING"

mcamden
New Member

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Wheeling, WV
Posts: 3
OK; I just got off of the phone with DirecTV, and I'm wondering if the CSR was mistaken in what he told me. I told him that I just heard that DirecTV was going to start carrying the network CBS HD feed in time for the Super Bowl, and that I was curious about what I needed to do to subscribe to it. He asked me to wait and then came back online and asked me if I was already a subscriber to HD. When I responded yes, he informed me that DirecTV is hoping to have this rolled out in time for the SuperBowl and that since I subscribe to HD there is nothing else I would need to do. I informed him that I cannot currently get local channels or CBS via DNS through DirecTV and asked if that would affect my ability to get the CBS-HD network feed. He put me on hold for few minutes and then came back and told me that he just confirmed that access to the locals or DNS does not impact this. He then said that he confirmed that as long as I am DirecTV subscriber with the HD package and the HD equipment, I will automatically receive the CBS network HD feed when it becomes available the last week of Jan or early Feb.

Now this flies in the face of everything else I've read here (and elsewhere). I am not in one of the 17 O&Os and I don't qualify for DNS because I live in the 151st DMA with a strong signal to a non O&O CBS station (which will probably never broadcast in HD), so I was thinking that I would be out of luck. I realize that I shouldn't get my hopes up because this is probably a case of a misinformed CSR, but he did put me on hold a couple of times to confirm this info, so it seems as if he at least asked one of his supervisors.

Is there any chance that this could be accurate (please, please, please let it be true!!!)?
------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's another post on same subject:

kakster
New Member

Registered: Apr 2003
Location: Vernon Hills, IL
Posts: 5
I am in the Chicago O&O area and checked the D* eligibility site which did not show any other station for CBS (although it claims I can receive Milwaukee's NBC and ABC). I talked to a CSR on Saturday who told me that according to her script there was nothing that needed to be done to turn on CBS-HD national feed for the SuperBowl on 2/1. As long as I have HD equipment I will get it automatically, she said. Won't hold my breath. I've got Comcast locals as a backup anyway... It's just annoying to have to switch over all the a/v components just to change the channel. I'd just like to see whether CBS-HD looks better on the D* feed than the Comcast feed. I get noticable pixelation during the football games.

Insight cable in Bloomington/Normal, IL, made the Motorola DCT-6208 HDTV PVR available this past week. It replaces the old 2-cable box system (1 standard definition, 1 HD) with 1 box that can output and record both standard definition and HD. A hard disk-based recorder for HD... very cool. And for those of you with DVI-inputs, the 6208 has a DVI output, though I do not have DVI and cannot confirm it is active.

I got mine this past Friday. It cost me $3 more per month. FYI, I'm a basic cable subscriber with HD added, but no HD Pak (no ESPN-HD, HDNet, etc.).

An added note: The 6208 is pretty loud. My TiVo is virtually silent due to the fact that it has no fan. But the 6208 has a fan. Some may find the noise objectionable.

Regarding WHOI's high definition broadcasts switching to standard definition: This happened during an early-season MNF game. I contacted the engineer and he looked into it. Turns out, when the control room switches control to the news desk in preparation for the local news, the HD feed is "lost" and the SD feed is sent in it's place. The Monday night control room folks were told this and did not switch control to the news desk until after the games were over. (Most of the time, they made the switch before the post-game interviews were over. But at least they waited until the game was decided.) Obviously, the weekend control room folks are unaware of this and switched control over too early.

WICD now has all the HDTV equipment in-house. So all we need
do is wait for the install. I could practically see the engineer's grin
from my office.

Doug McDonald

Originally posted by jdmcdonald
WICD now has all the HDTV equipment in-house. So all we need
do is wait for the install. I could practically see the engineer's grin
from my office.

Doug McDonald

I'll volunteer to carry his tools and hold an umbrella in case of rain or snow, if it helps to expedite things!:D :D :D

As soon as my installer can get me a Dish 811 receiver, I'm moving to HD. I wonder if someone in Champaign can give me some practical antenna advice.

I live in Southwest Champaign (Robeson Meadows West subdivision--ZIP 61822). I'd like to pick up all the OTA digital signals. Though I have lots of free attic space, some sort of antenna mounted on the Dish bracket would be an easier install. I know the Terk stuff is junk, but a guy at Radio Shack said customers have been doing well with RS's amplified omni-directional antenna. Would this likely do for me, or do I need to be looking at a directional antenna in the attic. I checked antennaweb.org, which suggested I might need a directional antenna for a couple of stations. However, someone with personal experience would be more helpful.

Thanks,

MIKE

[QUOTE]Originally posted by rrrick8
[B]Found this in the CBS HD thread in "HDTV PROGRAMMING"

mcamden
New Member

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Wheeling, WV
Posts: 3
OK; I just got off of the phone with DirecTV, and I'm wondering if the CSR was mistaken in what he told me. I told him that I just heard that DirecTV was going to start carrying the network CBS HD feed in time for the Super Bowl, and that I was curious about what I needed to do to subscribe to it. He asked me to wait and then came back online and asked me if I was already a subscriber to HD. When I responded yes, he informed me that DirecTV is hoping to have this rolled out in time for the SuperBowl and that since I subscribe to HD there is nothing else I would need to do. I informed him that I cannot currently get local channels or CBS via DNS through DirecTV and asked if that would affect my ability to get the CBS-HD network feed. He put me on hold for few minutes and then came back and told me that he just confirmed that access to the locals or DNS does not impact this. He then said that he confirmed that as long as I am DirecTV subscriber with the HD package and the HD equipment, I will automatically receive the CBS network HD feed when it becomes available the last week of Jan or early Feb.

Now this flies in the face of everything else I've read here (and elsewhere). I am not in one of the 17 O&Os and I don't qualify for DNS because I live in the 151st DMA with a strong signal to a non O&O CBS station (which will probably never broadcast in HD), so I was thinking that I would be out of luck. I realize that I shouldn't get my hopes up because this is probably a case of a misinformed CSR, but he did put me on hold a couple of times to confirm this info, so it seems as if he at least asked one of his supervisors.

Is there any chance that this could be accurate (please, please, please let it be true!!!)?
------------------------------------------------------------------


I can't believe this is generally accurate. If it were true, it would mean that CBS had essentially "blown off" its local affiliates in providing a national HD feed. What is more likely is that the CBS HD feed for the SUPERBOWL ONLY will be made available to everyone. Given the "event" status of the Superbowl and the fact that the national ads are the big money makers, it makes sense that CBS would make this game available generally. But I simply can't believe that the CBS HD feed itself will be made available to everyone. But maybe DTV won't know any better and turn it on by accident . . .

After having Bell ExpressVu for two years to get HD, I'm now seriously considering another plan in light of DirecTV's announcement. Since we already get ABC HD from WAND and will soon get NBC from WICD and PBS from WILL, that only leaves CBS and FOX as HD wastelands in our market. DirecTV will be putting up national HD feeds for both CBS and FOX (Fox is currently not doing true HD, but will move to HD by fall 2004). So, I'm considering "moving" my service address for DirecTV to Chicago, which should make me eligible for both the national CBS and Fox feeds no matter what. Then in March when the HD-TIVO is released, I'll be able to get all the major networks in HD (or "Faux" HD until they switch) and use the HD-TIVO for time shifting. If all this works out, I'll cancel my BEV subscription. Even though I like the CBC, I'd much rather give my bucks to a US company than send them to Canada.

John C.

John C., it just may be that CBS is pi$$ed that the Nexstars and such have "blown off" HD. CBS has been 2nd only to Mark Cuban in pushing HD content. They have an enormous amout of money tied up in HD and they may be sending a signal to these slow pokes like WCIA, to get their butts in gear. I find it intriguing that at least two CSR's have told customers(after talking to a supervisor, or reading from D** own "script") that CBS-HD will be available to antone with the HD package. But, As I said earlier, I'm not going to hold my breath, but it does seem like that's a possibility.

Originally posted by rrrick8
John C., it just may be that CBS is pi$$ed that the Nexstars and such have "blown off" HD. CBS has been 2nd only to Mark Cuban in pushing HD content. They have an enormous amout of money tied up in HD and they may be sending a signal to these slow pokes like WCIA, to get their butts in gear. I find it intriguing that at least two CSR's have told customers(after talking to a supervisor, or reading from D** own "script") that CBS-HD will be available to antone with the HD package. But, As I said earlier, I'm not going to hold my breath, but it does seem like that's a possibility.

I sure hope that's right. I'd LOVE to get CBS-HD with my DirecTV system, without lying to anyone about my address or citizenship. Unfortunately, my recollection is that the actual DirecTV announcement referred to CBS O&O markets for the HD signal, which is the same policy that governs DISH. But if the CBS HD signal appears on my RCA DTC100's, hey, I'm sure not going to complain!:D

John C.

The rights of WCIA and CBS to deliver programming created by CBS is no doubt governed by a contract between WCIA and CBS. I'm sure CBS reserved a remedy for itself in the event it's affiliate fails to deliver the programming to the intended viewers. It would be real interesting to see what these contracts provide. I'd guess CBS has the upper hand in negotiations, since it would have less trouble finding (or creating) an affiliate than an affiliate would find trying to get together with another network, since the supply there is definitely limited. I also doubt an affiliate wants to sue CBS, since that would not doubt come back to haunt them the next time the contract came up for renewal.

My prediction is that Nexstar will soon abandon their no-HD policy. The forces of the marketplace will act on them, just as it did on FOX. HD sets must have sold like gangbusters over the holidays. HD receivers are in very short supply from DISH. I know 4 people in our office got HD-ready sets in December and a couple more will jump if the pre-Superbowl projection TV sales are as good as in most years.

MIKE

Originally posted by mraub
My prediction is that Nexstar will soon abandon their no-HD policy. The forces of the marketplace will act on them, just as it did on FOX. HD sets must have sold like gangbusters over the holidays. HD receivers are in very short supply from DISH. I know 4 people in our office got HD-ready sets in December and a couple more will jump if the pre-Superbowl projection TV sales are as good as in most years.

MIKE

I have no insight into Nexstar's accounting books, but I believe that they are on such a tight budget because they bought so many stations so fast. After purchasing the Champaign & Peoria affiliates, my understanding is that they went on a spending binge and bought numerous other stations across the country. They probably don't have the funds for the HD up-grades. This though is no fault of the viewers. We should not suffer from their mismanagement. They knew the "Digital era" was coming. They should have prepared for it.
NOTE TO NEXSTAR: "Bring back Jerry & Marta, and give me my HD!!!:D

Is anyone having problems with the sound on HD broadcasts from WAND (ABC) Decatur IL? Whenever there is an HD program on the sound I get has alot of echo to it. I don't have any audio enhancements set and WAND is the only channel that has this problem. I have the Hughes HTL-HD. Just wondering if anyone else is having this problem.

Originally posted by rrrick8
I'll volunteer to carry his tools and hold an umbrella in case of rain or snow, if it helps to expedite things!:D :D :D

I understand that all the outdoors work is already done.

This is not true of WILL, of course .... they have to replace the
main antenna.

Doug

Originally posted by mraub
As soon as my installer can get me a Dish 811 receiver, I'm moving to HD. I wonder if someone in Champaign can give me some practical antenna advice.

I live in Southwest Champaign (Robeson Meadows West subdivision--ZIP 61822). I'd like to pick up all the OTA digital signals. Though I have lots of free attic space, some sort of antenna mounted on the Dish bracket would be an easier install.
MIKE

If by all you mean all, you will need an outdoor antenna at
a respectable height and a good preamp. This includes Fox digital, WRSP-DT
channel 44 in Springfield. Fox is not HD just yet, but their picture
is widescreen and better than most DVDs. They will be HD next fall
some time. WCCU will go digital when Hell freezes over. For Fox
you should get the very best (9032) or at least next best (9022) in Winegard UHF only antennas, and a ChannelMaster 7775 amplifier.

Without Fox it will be easier. Do not try any dish mounted antenna.
An attic antenna will probably work. Even the Radio Shack double
bowtie (930-0998) or a Silver Sensor (a unique name) will possibly work if it's a tall two story house. A quad bowtie from Channelmaster (3021/4221) or Winegard (4400) probably will. WICD will be off the back but will probably work fine there. If you want to kiss off Fox I'd get the quad bowtie and try it. If it doesn't work in the attic, mount it right at the top of the roof, just above it. If its a long (>40 ft) cable (RG-6) run you will possibly but not necessarily need the 7775. Don't buy it unless
you need it.

Don't get a big VHF-UHF antenna ... they are far too huge and unneeded.
If you have trouble with WILL-DT Channel 9 ... not on until mid
February ... put a rabbit ears in the attic for them and use a UHF-VHF combiner.

Don't even consider any indoor antenna except a double bowtie or
Silver Sensor.

If I lived out there, I'd put the big UHF antenna on a tower 11.999
feet above the rooftop. A big antenna tells the Joneses next door
that you've got a hotshot HDTV. That area NEEDS some big antennas
on the roof.

Doug McDonald

Is anyone having problems with the sound on HD broadcasts from WAND (ABC) Decatur IL? Whenever there is an HD program on the sound I get has alot of echo to it. I don't have any audio enhancements set and WAND is the only channel that has this problem. I have the Hughes HTL-HD. Just wondering if anyone else is having this problem.

I've noticed this from time to time on Alias and other prime time shows. I don't think I noticed it with MNF, though. I've been meaning to e-mail WAND about it, but keep forgetting to. They're kind of hit and miss with e-mail responses anyway, so I don't know if they'd respond or not. I'll e-mail them later tonight. If I hear back from them, I'll let everyone know.

BTW, I've noticed this on a Hughes E86 and a Zenith HD-SAT520. It's not your HD receiver.

I have the LG 3200A and also get an echo effect from WAND-DT.
I end up tuning to WHOI-DT because the echo is so annoying.

I don't know much about it, so I thought it was an over-amping problem.

Paul

Originally posted by roberte114
Is anyone having problems with the sound on HD broadcasts from WAND (ABC) Decatur IL? Whenever there is an HD program on the sound I get has alot of echo to it. I don't have any audio enhancements set and WAND is the only channel that has this problem. I have the Hughes HTL-HD. Just wondering if anyone else is having this problem.

I don't get any echo, however, the audio synchronization is off. Am I the only one have this problem?

Originally posted by mraub
As soon as my installer can get me a Dish 811 receiver, I'm moving to HD. I wonder if someone in Champaign can give me some practical antenna advice.

I live in Southwest Champaign (Robeson Meadows West subdivision--ZIP 61822). I'd like to pick up all the OTA digital signals. Though I have lots of free attic space, some sort of antenna mounted on the Dish bracket would be an easier install. I know the Terk stuff is junk, but a guy at Radio Shack said customers have been doing well with RS's amplified omni-directional antenna. Would this likely do for me, or do I need to be looking at a directional antenna in the attic. I checked antennaweb.org, which suggested I might need a directional antenna for a couple of stations. However, someone with personal experience would be more helpful.

Thanks,

MIKE

My experience is simlar to what Doug McDonald suggested. I live in southwest Champaign (south of Windsor). I have a small Radio Shack UHF only directional antenna (15-2160 $22) mounted in the attic of a two storey house. It points about 5 degrees north of due west. i.e. in almost a direct line toward the wcia antenna from my house. I get all of the digitial channels including wrsp out of Springfied. I use a Channel Master preamp which is a slight variation of the 7775 (same electronics, plastic box). I need the preamp because I have a 100 ft cable run of RG6 down to my crawl space and over to the living room.

If you want to buy stuff locally, Radio Shack had the antenna; Menard's has the best prices on 100ft runs of RG6 as well as connectors. I found the CM preamp at Lowes for about $60. IF you want to try a cheap preamp, Menards had one for $10-$15 which worked better than the RS inline but was not nearly as good as the CM7775 clone.

John

Originally posted by jtv
My experience is simlar to what Doug McDonald suggested. I live in southwest Champaign (south of Windsor). I have a small Radio Shack UHF only directional antenna (15-2160 $22) mounted in the attic of a two storey house. It points about 5 degrees north of due west. i.e. in almost a direct line toward the wcia antenna from my house. I get all of the digitial channels including wrsp out of Springfied. I use a Channel Master preamp which is a slight variation of the 7775 (same electronics, plastic box). I need the preamp because I have a 100 ft cable run of RG6 down to my crawl space and over to the living room.

If you want to buy stuff locally, Radio Shack had the antenna; Menard's has the best prices on 100ft runs of RG6 as well as connectors. I found the CM preamp at Lowes for about $60. IF you want to try a cheap preamp, Menards had one for $10-$15 which worked better than the RS inline but was not nearly as good as the CM7775 clone.

John

Same experience here. I have a VHF/UHF Radio Shack antenna in my 2-story attic pointed about 5 degrees north of due west with a CM preamp. Live in Arbour Meadows subdivision in Savoy. I get all the digital channels including WCIA, WAND, WBUI, WICD. WSRP comes in most of the time, but not always - probably the result of the small-ish UHF reflector on the combo antenna, but I wanted the combo to get WILL when they go live on channel 9. I might try the UHF only with a UHF-only preamp to see if it does better on WSRP than the combo antenna.

Meanwhile, those of you with DISH or DirecTV might want to consider the option of moving your service address to Chicago. If you have a friend in Chicago who is willing to "lend" you their address, you can change your service address to Chicago while leaving your billing address and phone number local. Changing your service address will qualify you for Chicago local channels which in turn means that you automatically qualify to receive the CBS HD feed (already available on DISH, though they are having some contract difficulties with Viacom that could result in an interruption of this feed; the CBS HD channel is supposed to be available before the Superbowl on DirecTV). To get the CBS HD feed (which is WCBS-DT from NY) on DISH, you'll need a separate dish pointed at 61.5-degrees and an SW64 or DP32 switch to combine three sats for your receiver. For DirecTV, you'll need a 3-lnb oval dish with the "Sat C" kit and multiswitch. Also, DirecTV has announced that it also will carry the Fox ED (eventually HD) feed for Fox O&O stations, so if you have DirecTV and move your service address to Chicago, you'll get this too.

You all will have to assess for yourselves the ethics of lying about your service address to your satellite provider. In my own case, I've made the decision that since WCIA and WCCU have decided not to provide me with the service I want, I will take steps to secure that service other ways. Doing this also means that you can't call DISH or DirecTV and have them send out an installer to your house to add or fix something, because the installer would go to your service address. So if you aren't technically "handy" and can take care of your own dish installations and wiring, this isn't a good idea.

John C.

It's interesting that you get WRSP with that setup. Is it reliable?

I'm near Windsor just east of Neil and I get it most of
the time with a modest antenna, but not 100%. However, I'm behind
another building. With a big antenna it is perfectly reliable. Without
a preamp I never get it.

I just tried my new propagation prediction software and
it predicts an 8 dB difference between me and far SW Champaign,
so I guess that's the difference.

Doug McDonald

Thanks for all the good advice on antenna selection. I hope to have HD in place for the Superbowl, but that depends on whether Dish can supply a receiver by then.

The guy I'm buying the gear from is savvy about choosing service addresses to get the feeds you want. Be careful about using Chicago area addresses: if you get too far North or West you may need waivers from Milwaukee or Rockford stations. Best to stick with the South Suburbs.

MIKE

Originally posted by jdmcdonald
It's interesting that you get WRSP with that setup. Is it reliable?

I'm near Windsor just east of Neil and I get it most of
the time with a modest antenna, but not 100%. However, I'm behind
another building. With a big antenna it is perfectly reliable. Without
a preamp I never get it.

I just tried my new propagation prediction software and
it predicts an 8 dB difference between me and far SW Champaign,
so I guess that's the difference.

Doug McDonald

"Reliable" might be too strong a description. I can usually get WRSP in the evenings without dropouts. Daytime, usually not. I've attributed this to day/night propagation differences for UHF signals.

John C.

All the talk about dircetv sending down cbs in HD is getting me excited. In Springfield we can get a waiver for cbs, and I get the NY and LA feeds. I can also pick up ch 3 in dtv too.

If this happens, it will complete the major networks for me. Right now I can get FOX (WRSP), ABC (WAND), NBC (WEEK), PBS (WSEC? 15.2 and 46.4 W???) and hopefully cbs through Directv.

I WANT MORE! I think I am sick;)

Originally posted by jdcolombo
"Reliable" might be too strong a description. I can usually get WRSP in the evenings without dropouts. Daytime, usually not. I've attributed this to day/night propagation differences for UHF signals.

John C.

OK that makes sense!

It's the same for me with my less than super antenna.

I'm using very big guns for reliability .... a tuned-to-channel-44 antenna
(made by me) and a tuned-for-Ch.-44 preamp from Advanced
Receiver Research with a 0.6 dB noise figure. However, in actual
fact it turns out I don't need the super preamp, just a pretty
good one. The Rat Shack inline one is nowhere near good enough.

Doug McDonald

>>>In Springfield we can get a waiver for cbs, and I get the NY and LA feeds. I can also pick up ch 3 in dtv too.


Isn't CBS in Springfield the same as WCIA in Champaign? If so, Champaign residents should be able to get the same waiver.

MIKE

Originally posted by mraub
>>>In Springfield we can get a waiver for cbs, and I get the NY and LA feeds. I can also pick up ch 3 in dtv too.


Isn't CBS in Springfield the same as WCIA in Champaign? If so, Champaign residents should be able to get the same waiver.

MIKE

The waiver for Springfield is probably based on the fact that Springfield is not in the Grade B contour area for WCIA's analog transmitter. You can get WCIA on DTV because they share space with WCFN, which used to be WCIA's low-power translator for Springfield. Now, however, I think that the analog transmitter is devoted entirely to WCFN, which means that Springfield technically is in a "white" area when it comes to CBS. Doug McDonald probably knows more about the transmitter/contour situation than I do, but I can tell you for certain that I once asked WCIA for a waiver and it was denied. But I live in Savoy.

John C.

Originally posted by mraub
>>>In Springfield we can get a waiver for cbs, and I get the NY and LA feeds. I can also pick up ch 3 in dtv too.


Isn't CBS in Springfield the same as WCIA in Champaign? If so, Champaign residents should be able to get the same waiver.

MIKE

Yes it is WCIA. We can not, however, receive the analog signal.

Yes it is WCIA. We can not, however, receive the analog signal.

That makes sense. I always assumed they had some sort of repeater to rebroadcast their signal over there.

MIKE

I noticed the echo tonight durring Primetime. It sounds like a phaze problem, reminds of Funkadelic's Magot Brain. I wonder if thay are trying to send two audio signals at the same time?

I sent an e-mail to WAND asking about the "echo" problem early this morning. So far, I have not received a response. Anybody else send them one? Maybe if several of us notify them of the problem, they'll take it seriously...

RRick,

I have also seen the echo & sync problem on WAND. I am sending them an email. I will let you know what I get for a response.

Ed

Edster,

Sorry to be late on the reply. I have a good setup but can't get anything out of Champaign. I get everything out of Peoria, Decatur and Springfield plus 28-1.

Don

I received a reply from WAND today concerning the echo problem. The response they provided was incredibly detailed in terms of the hardware they use and the possible source of the problem. Long story short, they are aware of the issue and said they would attempt to correct it. Let's hope they're able to do so!

I listened for the problem last night and heard it ... though only
in stereo from the STB. The DD 5.1 from my surround receiver
sounded fine, though a bit out of sync, as has been noted.
This was not really bad though.

Doug

Good afternoon all,

I just had Dish installed here in Urbana yesterday afternoon. The promo deal for new subscribers that includes the 811 Hi-Def receiver made it a no-brainer over DirecTV (at least for me). I had ordered the install on December 23 and this was the soonest install date I could get. Apparently I got lucky only waiting 3 weeks or so. The installer said they have been absolutely pounded with people wanting the locals and that some installs are backed out as far as September 2004. Plus the 811s are backordered like a sonofabitch (for a while there Dish wasn't even taking install orders for the 811; not sure if that's still the case). 811s on Ebay are going for more money than they cost to buy from Dish.

Mine was only the second 811 install that this installation team had done. I actually had to do the connections to the home theatre system (which frankly I would prefer to do anyway).

The installers came from Danville. They got here at 3pm and worked until about 7pm. The new "superdishes" that are used to get the locals CANNOT be mounted on a roof or side of a building due to the weight. They must sit on a pole, and since the pole they provide is only about 7 feet tall, this may present problems getting the right exposure or building/roof clearance for a lot of people. We walked around my property and tried a couple of different places and ultimately settled on a spot at the back of my property. They dug a hole, poured concrete and set the pole to firm up. They ran cable underground up to my house.

The 811 receiver has a bonus of also having an OTA tuner built in. Unlike the one built into my Mits 65613, this one *does* have a signal strength indicator. Once you scan for channels and save them, it integrates those channels into the Dish guide, so you can browse through them with your satellite channels (no content is given for the OTA channels though). I noticed that the OTA CBS feed is better than the Dish feed of WCIA.

I also had a 301 (they were out of 301s so I got the newer 311) installed in a back room that I'm going to use as a home gym (gotta get rid of some excess tonnage :). I have it hooked up to an InFocus X1 projector. Here the SD really shows its limitations when projected at 80" diagonal. Once things settle down and the demand for 811s wanes a bit, I'll probably pick up a used one in order to be able to see some HiDef back there.

Overall , I'm quite pleased, but I wish Dish had BravoHD... :(

-Dan

I thought I would share an email reply I received this afternoon from the GM at WCIA as to why the station is not passing HDTV. Apparently this station or its owner, Nexstar, is not doing well financially or else this is another station that is kicking and screaming about new technology.

Steve
............................................................ .......................................................

Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 2:18 PM
To: eng@wcia.com
Cc: vpgm@wcia.com
Subject: Where's your HDTV?


I was just perusing your website and saw the promotion with the big screen
giveaway. What about watching the Super Bowl in HDTV? I've been reading
through posts at www.avsforum.com about the lack of HDTV from CBS stations
in Central Illinois. Nearby WLFI-DT 11, Lafayette, IN, market #190, is
finalizing its HDTV installation. The Super Bowl will be in HDTV on that
station.

If I am wrong about WCIA-DT not offering HDTV, then please enlighten me.
Otherwise, it seems that after 50 years of service, WCIA has not moved
forward with the latest technology.

Steve Rich
Indianapolis
............................................................ ......................................................

Thank you for your question and comments about WCIA not moving forward with
the latest technology. I don't know if you run a business or own a company
but as always there are tremendous cost issues along with government
mandates. Pursuant to FCC requirements we are transmitting a standard
definition digital broadcast signal for WCIA. As per the FCC stations may
broadcast both analog and digital signals until at least December 31, 2006,
when we may be required to abandon the analog format, provided that 85% of
households with our DMA have the capability to receive a digital signal.
Currently our market is a long way from 85% to just receive a digital signal
let alone HDTV. We have made a decision to broadcast standard definition
digital signals until such time as the FCC mandates high definition
broadcasts or our viewer base supports the additional costs associated with
transmitting a high definition signal. Based on your comments I don't know
if this will enlighten you or not but "The pure and simple truth is rarely
pure and never simple".....

Russ Hamilton
Vice President & General Manager
WCIA

Steve,
Since you have made contact with one of the powers that be at WCIA, why don't respond inquiring if they will grant waivers for anyone who wants the CBS-HD feed from Dish or (soon) DirecTV. If, as he says, the market for HDTV is minuscule, why would granting a few waivers hurt them?
MIKE

Originally posted by mraub
Steve,
Since you have made contact with one of the powers that be at WCIA, why don't respond inquiring if they will grant waivers for anyone who wants the CBS-HD feed from Dish or (soon) DirecTV. If, as he says, the market for HDTV is minuscule, why would granting a few waivers hurt them?
MIKE

It's not an OBO market.

It's not an OBO market

I'm not familiar with that acronym. How would that affect their discretion to grant a waiver to those who request one?

MIKE

OBO - owned by and operated by.

as I understand it in a nutshell CBS will allow CBS HD over those people in areas where CBS ownes the Station, but where the station is owned by and operated by a second company then you will have to have to get a waiver from your local channel if you want to recieve the HD channel over satelite. This is to protect the local owners from our eyes not seeing the local ads.

Ed

as I understand it in a nutshell CBS will allow CBS HD over those people in areas where CBS ownes the Station, but where the station is owned by and operated by a second company then you will have to have to get a waiver from your local channel if you want to recieve the HD channel over satelite. This is to protect the local owners from our eyes not seeing the local ads.

That bring us back to my original query: If the HD market in Champaign is minuscule, why would WCIA balk at giving waivers to the few who request them?

MIKE

Originally posted by mraub
That bring us back to my original query: If the HD market in Champaign is minuscule, why would WCIA balk at giving waivers to the few who request them?

MIKE

Because WCIA doesn't REALLY think the HD market is all that small, or at least doesn't think it will remain that small.

Face it, this isn't really a market-driven decision. Nextstar Communications doesn't want to spend the money to upgrade WCIA's infrastructure to carry HD. And as long as they can force local viewers to watch the SD signal with no possible downside, why should they spend the money? If your boss knew that you had zero job prospects other than working for your current company, would the boss give you a raise? Of course not. Employers give raises because they believe there is a realistic possibility they will lose a good employee to another company. Similarly, why should WCIA spend money when they know their viewers have no alternative?

The problem with the HD system is that there is neither a federal mandate to broadcast in HD, nor a market method to let consumers voice their preferences. Instead, we have what is the worst of all possible economic systems: an essentially unregulated monopoly. WCIA knows that no matter how many HD fans there are in the market, we have no choice but to watch their SD signal if we want to watch CBS at all. I suppose that if eventually their ratings fell because people started switching to WAND or WICD, then maybe they'd perk up. But the truth is that most of us will watch CBS because of the shows - we may swear and grit our teeth, but we won't switch off CSI and watch Frazier.

It's because of this royal screwing of the consumer that I made my own choice to acquire CBS HD through other means. But if you think WCIA is going to give you a waiver when they can force you to watch their station, well, don't hold your breath.

John C.

Any chance WICD will have their HD signal going by the Daytona 500?

I live in Champaign as well...what "other means" for CBS are available? I don't want to spend thousands of dollars, but I sure would like to know what choices/costs are available.

Originally posted by Queso Madness
I live in Champaign as well...what "other means" for CBS are available? I don't want to spend thousands of dollars, but I sure would like to know what choices/costs are available.

There are two basic possibilities, each with two sub-choices.

First, you can subscribe either to Bell ExpressVu or StarChoice from Canada. This would require you purchasing the necessary equipment and installing it all yourself (including the dishes, cables, etc.), then subscribing through a Canadian "address broker" who will give you a valid Canadian address. Bell ExpressVu (abbreviated BEV) has both East and West feeds of all the US HD networks (Boston and Seattle) including PBS. You also get City TV from Toronto which carries UPN and WB HD material (Enterprise, for example). If you go this route, the equipment cost would be about $800. The basic channel package that includes the HD networks runs about $40/mth US total (Canada adds a number of taxes to the quoted price on BEV's website, plus you'll pay your address broker an annual fee of about $75 US for their service). There is no US law that prevents you from subscribing to either BEV or SC, but make no mistake: you will be lying to them about your address in order to get service (they can only legally sell their service to Canadian addresses). More info is available from www.global-cm.net (click on "Canadian Solution" from the home page).

The second possibility, if you are only interested in CBS HD (and perhaps Fox ED, as well) is to buy the equipment for DISH or DirecTV for HD service from an internet source, install it yourself, and then when you set up service, provide a service address in Chicago. Both DirecTV and DISH permit a service address that differs from your billing address, and they have no way of knowing where the equipment is physically located. They don't even question the fact that you have a "217" phone number (though setting up service from a cell phone might be best). They don't ask questions - you just tell them you need a billing address different from your service address, they set up your account, and that's the end of it (and after you have an account set up, you can manage it via Dish or D*'s websites). But the downside here again is that you have to be pretty self-sufficient with equipment. You would need to install the equipment yourself, and you can't call DISH or D* and ask for someone to come out to your house to fix something, because they will go to your service address (in Chicago).

Giving a Chicago service address qualifies you for Chicago locals; since the CBS station in Chicago is CBS owned-operated, it also qualifies you for the CBS-HD signal that is already available from DISH and will be available from DirecTV on January 30 (DirecTV also has announced that it will carry a national Fox ED feed for people in Fox O&O areas, which also includes Chicago). Note that once again, you must lie to your service provider about your service address. You won't go to jail for this, but it is clearly a breach of your service agreement, and they would cut you off if they found out (which they have absolutely no incentive to do). The ethical issues you'll have to work out for yourself.

The costs for this route vary. DISH has a new HD receiver, the 811, that you can get for $399, but I've heard reports that it is somewhat buggy. DISH also has released in limited quantity an HD PVR, the 921 ($1000), that promises to be a terrific piece of equipment if they ever get the bugs fixed. You also will need at least two dishes (a regular DISH500 and an 18" dish pointed at 61.5 degrees, which is where the CBS-HD east signal is) plus the necessary multiswitches to tie it all together.

DirecTV has several HD receiver models available, running from about $400 to $800 retail. Of course, you'll also need the newest triple-LNB dish. Either way, you're looking at several hundred dollars of equipment, although if you are a new subscriber, you should be able to qualify for new sub deals even if you buy the equipment on the internet and are doing a self-install.

I want to emphasize that neither of these solutions is simple, and if you aren't "handy" and feel comfortable doing your own dish installations, cabling and so forth, you shouldn't even attempt them (as an example, I have six satellite dishes in my back yard, including a 10' BUD. So I'm very comfortable doing all this myself. But if you're a first-timer, it can get very frustrating to aim a satellite dish correctly). But you asked, so there you are.

John C.

Addendum. If you already subscribe to DISH or DirecTV, you also may be able to "move" your service address to a Chicago address. This process is pretty simple with DISH. You simply call them up, tell them you are moving (into a vacation home?), give them a new service address, but tell them you want your old address to continue as your billing address. Note that you no longer will qualify for the Champaign local stations, but that you will get the Chicago locals (and remember that you'll need to install a dish pointed at 61.5, plus necessary switches, to get the CBS HD east feed).

You can also do this with DirecTV provided that you are in an area of Champaign County that is served by DirecTV directly, and not Pegasus. You can't "move" your service address to Chicago with Pegasus, because they do not provide service to Chicago (you can accomplish a move, but it would require terminating your service with Pegasus and starting a new account with DirecTV, which is MUCH more complicated than "moving" a current account service address). You'll also need to have a triple-LNB dish to get HD service from DirecTV.

If you do this, again, note that you will NOT be able to call DISH or DirecTV for in-home service or technical help. Once you move your service address, you're "on your own" if something goes wrong with your dish installation. So once again, I warn folks not to do this unless you are completely comfortable with installing and maintaining your own satellite equipment.

Originally posted by jdcolombo

I want to emphasize that neither of these solutions is simple, and if you aren't "handy" and feel comfortable doing your own dish installations, cabling and so forth, you shouldn't even attempt them (as an example, I have six satellite dishes in my back yard, including a 10' BUD. So I'm very comfortable doing all this myself. But if you're a first-timer, it can get very frustrating to aim a satellite dish correctly). But you asked, so there you are.

John C.


Here's a picture of John's backyard...

http://www.global-cm.net/DISHFARMW02c.jpg

:D :D :D

Bet the wife loves that..

Originally posted by rrrick8
Here's a picture of John's backyard...

http://www.global-cm.net/DISHFARMW02c.jpg

:D :D :D

Actually, I wish that WAS my backyard (it's really Mike Kohl's "yard"). My dishes consist of a 10' BUD; a 90cm KU dish on an H-H drive for dedicated MPEG2 DVB reception (this one was a bear to install to get the H-H DisEq drive tracking properly); a 75cm Ku dish pointed at Nimiq2, two 18" DBS dishes for nimiq 1 and Echo3, and a D* Phase II triple LNB oval.

If I only lived on a farm . . . I'd have a dish farm!

John C.

John C.,

Does having a DirecTV Tivo create any problem in option 2? i.e., Your DirecTV Tivo is calling from a phone number outside of your service area?

With HD Tivo soon coming (hopefully), what do we need to do or who do we need to contact to get the program information to show up in the program guide for the digital channels for WHOI and WMBD in Peoria and WRSP in Springfield. I currently only get the description of "regular programming" for these channels and I'm wondering if any DVR will record from these channels. Anyone have any info?

Thanks.

Originally posted by HDinIllinois
John C.,

Does having a DirecTV Tivo create any problem in option 2? i.e., Your DirecTV Tivo is calling from a phone number outside of your service area?

Not that I know of, although I don't have one (I'll let you know when I get my HD Tivo in April!). The Phillips DSR7000 manual indicates that the DirecTIVO uses the DirecTV program guide information for recording, and this is set by your service address, not your phone number. The manual does note that the TIVO uses the local area code to find a list of "free" modem-connect numbers, but it also provides an 800 number if your local area doesn't have any "free" numbers, so I can't imagine that the phone number you are dialing from makes any difference to them. Also, it would be odd to do that - people have a number of legitimate reasons for taking equipment with them to a different phone number: a vacation home is the primary example (in fact, I initially studied strategy #2 when I wanted to take my DirecTV equipment down to Georgia for a couple of weeks at a beach home). But I can't give you a definitive answer to this. You might want to search the boards at DBSTalk, SatelliteGuys, and DBSForums to see if someone there has answered this specific question.

John C.

The current direct Tivos and direct Tv PVR's do not have the ability to record from any other source than the DTV satellite and they receive there guide data from the DTV satellite. If the HD Direct Tivo has the ability of recording from a OTA antenna then they will need guide data for the OTA channels as well. Untill one of those units are released no one will know what the capabilities will be or how it will receive guide data.

The HD DirecTV Tivo will be able to record OTA. I am assuming that it will get its guide info from the same place that my current HD DirecTV STB gets it now. Since my current box doesn't have complete guide info, I'm assuming that the HD Tivo also won't get the complete guide info. How do we get the corrected guide info? Do we contact our locals or DirecTV? The analog info is in the guide, but the digital is not.

WILL bogs down again

They claimed they would be on my Feb. 14, and now their
web site says no, it will be "this spring".

And, what's more, there are two pages of things about HDTV,
one of which calls it a "scam" and both of whioch are are full of serious
misinformation and piles and piles of FUD.

Doug McDonald

When I tried to get channel data added about a year ago, I contacted DirecTV, although I believe the HD receivers will use PSIP data if available. Talking to DirecTV about OTA reception is like talking to a wall, I'd start with the station themselves and ask them to provide schedule data in the datastream like they should be doing anyway.

WRSP is the only one of the ones you mention I receive, and I don't get guide data for it on either of my HD boxes (one DirecTV, on IT910s).

Originally posted by HDinIllinois
The HD DirecTV Tivo will be able to record OTA. I am assuming that it will get its guide info from the same place that my current HD DirecTV STB gets it now. Since my current box doesn't have complete guide info, I'm assuming that the HD Tivo also won't get the complete guide info. How do we get the corrected guide info? Do we contact our locals or DirecTV? The analog info is in the guide, but the digital is not.

Doug,

You have failed to include the context of the "scam". That is that most of the DTVs sold now do not have ATSC tuners. This is true and consumers must be aware of it. But what that section does fail to mention is that you can buy an ATSC OTA tuner so that you are not "stuck just watching DVDs".

It is a bummer that they are delaying so long.

Originally posted by jdmcdonald
WILL bogs down again

They claimed they would be on my Feb. 14, and now their
web site says no, it will be "this spring".

And, what's more, there are two pages of things about HDTV,
one of which calls it a "scam" and both of whioch are are full of serious
misinformation and piles and piles of FUD.

Doug McDonald

Originally posted by turls
, although I believe the HD receivers will use PSIP data if available. WRSP is the only one of the ones you mention I receive, and I don't get guide data for it on either of my HD boxes (one DirecTV, on IT910s).

MOST DirecTV receivers DO NOT read local OTA PSIP EPG..(Other than the Sammy 165 and RCA100)..DirecTv requires they use the APG..IF DirecTV
inserts the locals in the APG, you should get the guide.

WRSP is inserting generic PSIP, if your receiver will read it, you will currently
see "WRSP-DT's Digital Service" on 55-1. In the next few weeks, we will be
adding full PSIP with EPG, however most DirecTv receivers won't see it
other than the two mentioned.:(

Hmmm... I thought the Sammy 165 was an OTA only box.... My 160 is a DirecTV and OTA box....

Migman

you are correct..the 165 will read OTA psip too. Have both of those, and always get them bassakwards.

Originally posted by bdfox18doe
MOST DirecTV receivers DO NOT read local OTA PSIP EPG..(Other than the Sammy 165 and RCA100)..DirecTv requires they use the APG..IF DirecTV
inserts the locals in the APG, you should get the guide.

WRSP is inserting generic PSIP, if your receiver will read it, you will currently
see "WRSP-DT's Digital Service" on 55-1. In the next few weeks, we will be
adding full PSIP with EPG, however most DirecTv receivers won't see it
other than the two mentioned.:(

I'm clearly no expert on the topic, but my HD Zenith DirecTV receiver has the OTA locals in the program guide. Doesn't this mean it reads local OTA PSIP EPG? Hopefully, it will recognize the WRSP-DT upgrade. Regardless, I sent an e-mail to 2 of my local stations to see if they have plans to add the full PSIP with EPG (I have no idea what that means:confused: )

Originally posted by turls
When I tried to get channel data added about a year ago, I contacted DirecTV, although I believe the HD receivers will use PSIP data if available. Talking to DirecTV about OTA reception is like talking to a wall, I'd start with the station themselves and ask them to provide schedule data in the datastream like they should be doing anyway.


It might interest you to know that it will be in the best interest of the stations to soon add PSIP data to their stream. Starting in metered markets next year, Neilson is requiring stations to add program information so they can track digital viewers too. The cost is about 50k per station for the encoders and all. I suspect it will soon follow that lower markets will also need to do this, even if they don't have metered homes. Right now most if not just about all analog stations are passing along basic program information, such as during prime time with network programming and some syndicated shows. (They include the data.) Since most large markets will be doing this, the equipment costs should come down, and I'm sure some vendors will come out with less costly alternatives in the next few years. Maybe by then STB will finally standardize on how to read PSIP.

HD/I..I assume you have a Zenith 520..it doesn't read local PSIP EPG,
only DirecTv's APG..it is stated in the manual.

I was going to say--I know the 160 does PSIP because that is what they had major problems with in the first couple firmwares! So why hasn't DirecTV added WRSP yet? Why does DirecTV drag their feet on some stations and not others?

Originally posted by bdfox18doe
you are correct..the 165 will read OTA psip too. Have both of those, and always get them bassakwards.

Matt,
trying to get WRSP added, have sent the request ... Hang loose.

How about taking all this guide data talk to another thread, and leaving this thread dealing with broadcast issues? :o

As far as I am concerned,Since EPG is a part of PSIP and the DTV broadcast, it has a place here.

Originally posted by bdfox18doe
As far as I am concerned,Since EPG is a part of PSIP and the DTV broadcast, it has a place here.

It is just a suggestion. It's a lot easier finding answers to questions when topics aren't mixed together in the same thread. :D

I know that the WCIA and WMBD CBS signals are just digital not HD. What I dont know is what format they are. Are they 480i or 480p and are they 4:3 or 16:9? I haven't installed my rooftop antenna yet to check for myself. Thanks in advance

As of to day, I now have CBS HD! Both NY and LA locals. Looks like the Super Bowl party is at my house! :cool:

Oh, you mean like this thread being clogged with Peoria station commentary which I can't even get? ;)

Ok, everybody, move the non Decatur/Jacksonville/Springfield disucssion out of this thread ;) ;)

In all seriousness, get real. The engineer is in this thread. Of course it is appropriate here.

Originally posted by rrrick8
It is just a suggestion. It's a lot easier finding answers to questions when topics aren't mixed together in the same thread. :D

Originally posted by ZJedi01
I know that the WCIA and WMBD CBS signals are just digital not HD. What I dont know is what format they are. Are they 480i or 480p and are they 4:3 or 16:9? I haven't installed my rooftop antenna yet to check for myself. Thanks in advance

WCIA is 480i 4:3.

John C.

WCIA is 480i 4:3

And plans to remain that way until icicles form in hades.

MIKE

Originally posted by turls
Oh, you mean like this thread being clogged with Peoria station commentary which I can't even get? ;)

Ok, everybody, move the non Decatur/Jacksonville/Springfield disucssion out of this thread ;) ;)

In all seriousness, get real. The engineer is in this thread. Of course it is appropriate here.

Hey, it was just a suggestion. It was not terse nor disrespectful. Also the last time I looked at a map Peoria, Decatur, Jacksonville, & Springfield were in "Central Illinois".
My only point is, that some threads get so long and bogged down on several different topics that they become so cumbersome. Someone in say Champaign, who might have just bought their first HD set is looking for information as to what's available, in what areas, etc. it would be better if they had a thread to read that dealt with that issue only.

Again I'm not on a crusade here or anything, it was just a suggestion. One that apparently has been rejected. So be it.
:)

Just picked up a Superdish and HDTV receiver today for dishnetwork (I havent had time to install it yet). Ive been receiving mixed answers on whether or not I will receive CBSHD on the dishnetwork. I will only have one dish so I know I will have to point this dish at the echostar sat at 148 or 65, no biggie. But the guy at the store wasnt sure if I would qualify for CBS HD in Athens, il. I notice that Stevenage said he was going to be receiving the feed in springfield...I assume I will but...

I called dishnetwork 3 times today and they said I would get it. When the sales guy called they told him I wouldnt because I chose to take their new local channel package. Therefore I was no longer in a white area.

I guess my question is the following...Stevenage do you have the new local channel package for springfield or do you use one at all or do you use one out of chicago? Does it matter since I live in a white area for cbs for ota. Opinoins.....I just want to know if I get it basically. I think I do but until I can hook it up tomorrow the suspense is killing me.

Originally posted by ZJedi01
Just picked up a Superdish and HDTV receiver today for dishnetwork (I havent had time to install it yet). Ive been receiving mixed answers on whether or not I will receive CBSHD on the dishnetwork. I will only have one dish so I know I will have to point this dish at the echostar sat at 148 or 65, no biggie. But the guy at the store wasnt sure if I would qualify for CBS HD in Athens, il. I notice that Stevenage said he was going to be receiving the feed in springfield...I assume I will but...

I called dishnetwork 3 times today and they said I would get it. When the sales guy called they told him I wouldnt because I chose to take their new local channel package. Therefore I was no longer in a white area.

I guess my question is the following...Stevenage do you have the new local channel package for springfield or do you use one at all or do you use one out of chicago? Does it matter since I live in a white area for cbs for ota. Opinoins.....I just want to know if I get it basically. I think I do but until I can hook it up tomorrow the suspense is killing me.

I wish I could help but I am on Directv:rolleyes: Can you unsubscribe from local channels and then be eligible?

I was informed by WCIA this morning that wiavers to get
a satellite HD feed were available.

I have no intentioning of getting one, since I don't want to spend
the money for an HD satellite receiver. Besides, it's a bit late for the
Super Bowl.

Doug McDonald

Originally posted by jdmcdonald
I was informed by WCIA this morning that wiavers to get
a satellite HD feed were available.

I have no intentioning of getting one, since I don't want to spend
the money for an HD satellite receiver. Besides, it's a bit late for the
Super Bowl.

Doug McDonald

When I lived in Springfield and they pulled CBS from the WCFN translator to make a UPN out of it. I immediately applied for the distant network. In fact when I looked up my address on Dishnetwork a week after they went to UPN it showed CBS as available from any of their DN feeds. I called up, asked for CBS and then asked to speak to the HD department. I was up in less then 10min's. Since then I've moved out of state and I've not lost my CBS HD feed. Apparently you get grandfathered in even if you move. Just shows you, never ever switch service. Since then, I’ve looked up my old Springfield address and they now show SPI-CMI stations listed. No distant network from CBS. I guess superdish has taken that away..

I was informed by WCIA this morning that wiavers to get
a satellite HD feed were available.

Doug,

Any details on the mechanics of how to get the waiver? My installer just called and said he got a Dish 811 for me, so I'm about ready to go.

Thanks,

MIKE

I believe if you will be having the Superdish installed it should be a "flip of a button"????

T

Originally posted by jdmcdonald
I was informed by WCIA this morning that wiavers to get
a satellite HD feed were available.

I have no intentioning of getting one, since I don't want to spend
the money for an HD satellite receiver. Besides, it's a bit late for the
Super Bowl.

Doug McDonald

Wow. This is certainly a change of heart. Do you have a person to contact there about a waiver?

John C.

I talked to the general manager. I was bitching about the SuperBowl
in SD when he mentioned giving two HD waivers Friday morning, and
37 recently.

This does not help me, since I have no intention of spending money
on a satellite HD receiver.

Doug McDonald

Rather than pestering the General Manager individually, maybe those of us here who want waivers can present our requests as a group.

On another note, there is a thread on HD Programming discussing how Fox intends to distribute their new HD programming in a fashion than will allow their affiliates to rebroadcast it with a minimum of new equipment required. Perhaps that will allow our local Fox affiliate in Urbana to get on board with HD.

MIKE

There are no plans at this time to add HD Passthrough to WCCU..(the
feed actually originates from WRSP.) Major system changes have to occur
to be able to do so. Wish we could say differently!

Originally posted by bdfox18doe
There are no plans at this time to add HD Passthrough to WCCU..(the
feed actually originates from WRSP.) Major system changes have to occur
to be able to do so. Wish we could say differently!

Will WSRP then give a waiver to those of us in Champaign who can't get the WSRP signal? While it's not a big deal for me yet, it certainly would be a big deal by next fall, when Fox goes HD and football season rolls around.

John C.

I don't know John, that would be a question those above me.

I really think that essentially anyone in Champaign who is able
to put up an outdoor antenna should reliably get WRSP-DT. It's not actually
hard, it just takes a big antenna and an expensive preamp.

Urbana is a very different matter for people on the other side of
the big buildings on campus or in a low spot beyond Yankee Ridge.
They will need a good size tower.

Doug McDonald

I just ordered a Winegard HD9095P and a Channel Master 7775 Titan 2 UHF preamp. I'll going to try it in a high, 2-story attic first. but can mount it on the roof, if needed, though I don't know if any sane person would get up on my steep, snow covered roof right now.

I'm hoping to get things hooked up this weekend, if I can get the installer here.

MIKE

Originally posted by mraub
[B] though I don't know if any sane person would get up on my steep, snow covered roof right now.
/B]

Maybe so, but he certainly wouldn't want to fall off! :D

Bob,

While we have your attention, does Fox intend to do its NFL broadcasts in HD next season (or at least some of them)?

MIKE

WRSP-DT is now running full PSIP with EPG, for those receivers that can
display it. Still testing, so there may be a few bugs..

Here in Champaign I did a channel scan tonight and briefly caught a glimpse of an ABC affiliate on physical channel 25, mapped to 25-1. Wasn't really enough signal to get a clear picture for more than a few seconds at a time.

Don't need another ABC channel of course, but just curious if anyone know where this channel originates.

jtv

Well, it is possible and a stretch, but 25-1 is WOLO- ABC Columbia SC..

Originally posted by bdfox18doe
WRSP-DT is now running full PSIP with EPG, for those receivers that can
display it. Still testing, so there may be a few bugs..

I am getting it, haven't noticed any bugs. I have a RCA tv with built in directv tuner.

25-1 is WEEK NBC in Peoria, IL.

Originally posted by jtv
Here in Champaign I did a channel scan tonight and briefly caught a glimpse of an ABC affiliate on physical channel 25, mapped to 25-1. Wasn't really enough signal to get a clear picture for more than a few seconds at a time.

Don't need another ABC channel of course, but just curious if anyone know where this channel originates.

jtv

Yes indeed. It is WRTV in Indy. No quibble.

For some reason this station is far more visible here than any of the
other stations that are clustered together near Indy. Between
late July and early October it is watchable 3 out of four evenings.
By watchable I mean so realible you can actually sit down and
watch TV on it ... and I did many many times watch HD on it before
WAND went to HD. They also have a 25-2 news channel.

I actually looked for it last night since I saw a real bad interference
on WICS-20 (from WFYI-20 in Indy). I got some green light blinks but no picture.

At the peak of the tropo season I can also get WFYI-DT ch. 21 in Indy,
but this is fairly rare.


Doug McDonald

Thanks, Doug jtv

Thanks for the PSIP Info Steven.

Yep, WRSP PSIP works.

However .... ? Is there something from with my STB or
were they double-pillarboxed last night .... all thing an anorexic?

Doug McDonald

We're checking..

Hey everyone,

I am new to this forum, so bear with me. Did anyone see The Lion King on WAND 17-1 tonight. All I can say is WOW! HD and 5.1 as well. Really looked great.

Question about waivers from WCIA. Right now I have only a TERK Antenna mounted to my dish (I know!), but have good success with FOX, WAND, and WB. They all come in excellent. WCIA however is another story. I have DirecTV and have gone through them 3 different times to get a waiver from WCIA with no succes, the latest try being a week ago. I even contacted the Station Manager a year or so and was blown off. Yet now I see that some people are being given waivers if they bring up the HD thing with the station manager. Is this working for people, because if it is I think it might be worth a try to contact the station again and pester them. Who all has had success with this and where do you live?

Also, any suggestions on antennas for me as far as receiving WCIA OTA? A Channel Master 4221, Winegard 4400, something else? WCIA is between 35 to 40 miles from me, I think.

I am glad I stumbled on this forum. Great info in here.

Brian

Central Decatur is line of sight to WCIA and should work fine with
a respectable antenna, as should WICS and when they come on, WILL.
The river bottoms are out of line of sight and will need a very good
antenna for WCIA . Have you tired WCFN-DT? They carry CBS, you know.

I have done no coverage calculations for WCFN, but I started one right now
and will report back when it completes (takes well over and hour on
my 600 MHz PC.)

I would try a quadruple bowtie antenna. Point it west and see what you get. Point it northeast and see what you get. If you get everything one
way or the other, fine. Otherwise, if possible try removing the
reflector and orienting it nne. When WILL comes on on Ch 9, a UHF
antenna will likely work.

Doug McDonald

My WCFN coverage map finished. It will be a little harder than WCIA
in most places in the Decatur area. If either were full power they
would be very easy to get, but they are running at about 1/500
of full power. WICS is also low power, but a big tower helps a lot.

Doug McDonald

Thanks Doug for the recommendations. I actually live in Mt. Zion, just south of Decatur. I will give the bowtie antenna a shot.

Brian

Mt. Zion will be harder for WCIA than Decatur and much harder for WCFN.

A quad bowtie is worth a try if you can return it. You better avoid
a preamp like the plague, since you are so very close to WAND and WBUI.

Doug

Thanks for the heads-up on the preamp, Doug. I've always appreciated your knowledge. I have read your posts over at HomeTheaterSpot over the last couple of years.

Brian

Originally posted by BSphar
Thanks for the heads-up on the preamp, Doug. I've always appreciated your knowledge. I have read your posts over at HomeTheaterSpot over the last couple of years.

Brian

No you haven't ... I don't think I ever posted anything over at that web site.
MAybe once or twice.

Doug McDonald

Has anyone heard anything lately from WMBD in Peoria??? I am in no man's land. I am near Springfield and I received the waiver from E* for CBS but I want it in HD without putting up a Superdish.

T

Originally posted by thumperxr69
Has anyone heard anything lately from WMBD in Peoria??? I am in no man's land. I am near Springfield and I received the waiver from E* for CBS but I want it in HD without putting up a Superdish.

T

If you have the distant network feed now, i.e. East coast or West coast CBS (including Chicago/Denver) feed, then the HD feed is available too. Try calling and ask for advanced tech support. It's at no cost. I was in SPI and received the waiver with no problems and asked for the HD feed also with no problems. But this was before superdish, so I don't know if they somehow force you to only take superdish. CBS HD is only available on 62.5 or 148 sat. So you will need to get a switch and a 18" dish. (Now called Dish 300) There is a dish dealer (I assume he is still there) on Stevenson Drive on the north side of the street near the Bunn factory, between 6th street and Lake Shore. It's been more then a year since I lived there. I bought a mount from him for $5, he had 10 of them, more then he cared. So I suspect he has tons of 18" dishes from all the Dish 500's going in. You can't miss it; it's got a C-band dish on the side of building and 3 smaller 18" dishes mounted on the sign up front on the street.

Channel 3 should grant any requests for distant network in and near SPI. The grade B contour falls just short of Springfield about ten miles to the east. So if you are in lets say Mechanicsburg then the request might not be granted, and surly if you are in Decatur it would get denied. 3's transmitter on 49 WCFN switched to UPN and thus made SPI and surrounding area a "white area" that CBS does not cover. Enabling distant network as an option. With only local cable co.'s getting 3 and also on the DTV transmitter at WCFN TX site. It simulcasts both UPN and 3 in 480i. It's cute, but I would expect most people here would want HD. But I don't see that happening any time soon with Nextstar owning them. They have similar notions about DTV as Sinclair. But it seems Sinclair my actually fork up the money to put HD onto 20 and 15. They certainly are going to make sure you can receive the signal; most Sinclair’s have bought full power transmitters for DTV. Both 20 and 15's small signal will soon be boosted by the end of the summer.

Just before the Superbowl there was a post saying the GM of WCIA was freely giving waivers to allow Champaign residents to get CBS-HD feeds from DISH or DirecTV. Has anyone here obtained such a waiver? Did you go through WCIA or let the satellite provider apply for the waiver?

Thanks,
MIKE

Originally posted by mraub
Did you go through WCIA or let the satellite provider apply for the waiver?

Thanks,
MIKE

I went through Dish, I never had to call WCIA. But at the time, channel 3 said it was granting all requests to viewers in and around Springfield. This was about 1.5 years ago. So Superdish was not at all available or on the horizon. They were granting distant network feeds of CBS. With of course the result being, I then qualified for CBS HD too. There is no "HD waiver", you have to qualify for one of the 4 O&O feeds that Dishnetwork provides. So if you live in Chicago, you can have CBS-HD from New York or L.A. via dish because WBBM is an O&O. Or better, if you lived in Denver. You could get the HD feed from the sat, while KCNC battles local NIMBY's about their tower. (Still not on the air with DTV, other then low power downtown) So, find out if you qualify for a distant network feed.

There is no "HD waiver", you have to qualify for one of the 4 O&O feeds that Dishnetwork provides

I guess that is technically correct, though I'm not really interested in distant networks in SD.

Since Springfield does not receive any CBS broadcasts OTA, they are in a different situation than residents of Champaign-Urbana. I wonder if any CU viewers have tried to get the waiver from WCIA and how they went about that.

Thanks,

MIKE

I was wondering if anyone else was not able to receive WRSPDT and WICSDT today (2/22/04). I show a 0% signal strength. I know they both are on the same tower out there near mechanisburgh....that seems like a weird conincident.

About 8 am WRSP was normal. WICS is far too low power
for us here in Champaign.

Doug McDonald

WRSP-DT suffered a critical problem Sunday morning and will be off the air until a manufacturer representative can come out to inspect/repair the problem. I hope to have it back online by midweek, I'll post more details on WRSP-DT's return as they become available.

This problem is not related to any problem that WICS-DT may be having, as we are NOT on the same tower.

I was really looking forward to watching NASCAR in widescreen and Dolby 5.1 today, as I'm sure many of you were. My apologies go out to all of you for this outage.

Thanks for the info, its good to see that one of the stations actually has an interest in digital/hdtv and is interested in keeping their viewers informed (I never dreamed I would get a response from someone at the station actually, let alone someone with decision making power). I wish I could assume that for all stations, but I dont think I can....cough cough wmbd, wcia, wics...etc. Bravo to WRSP, now if we can just get FOX to hurry up and bring us HD. I just assumed that since wics and wrsp were both in the exact same direction and almost the same distance according to antennaweb.org that they were on the same tower, sorry about that. Well that explains wrsp...now whats the problem with wics...doubt we'll ever find that find out...

Darn it, that was a bad time for WRSP-DT's transmitter to go south. My Dish/OTA antenna installer is coming tomorrow morning to get everything set up, including a 8 foot long UHF antenna which I'd hoped would get WRSP-DT from a high attic mount and a pre-amp. I guess we'll point it at channel 55 and hope that will be close enough when the digital signal returns.

MIKE

WRSP-DT is back up and running.

Again, I apologize for the extended outage. It was necessary to get the equipment manufacturer involved so that they could analyze the problem firsthand. Hopefully they will be able to use this information to further improve an already excellent product, resulting in better performance and reliability for us and ultimately you the viewers.

bout daggum time..! :>)

I finally got my DISH/OTA partially installed. The installer forgot to bring the gadget he needed to power the antenna amp from the DISH receiver, so that is not yet hooked up.

With a Winegard HD9095 (about 15 dB gain) pointed generally toward Decatur (from Southwest Champaign), the two Decatur digital channels come in like gangbusters--about 85% on the DISH 811 meter. WAND is off the back of the beam and is marginal at about 50%; not really usable. WCIA which is a bit North of my antenna aim is also poor and not really usable at this time. Now that WRSP is back on the air, some more adjustments are going to have be made after the amp is in the circuit. I hope the Decatur stations don't overload.

My DISH installer also explained his understanding of WCIA waivers for the satellite CBS-HD feeds. According to him, if you subscribe to the locals over DISH, WCIA will automatically grant the waiver (they get $$$ from DISH to allow them to carry their signal). I was going to use a creative address to get that feed, but I don't mind subscribing to the locals, even though I didn't put up a SuperDish yet to actually get the signal.

MIKE

This is my first post on this forum but I was hoping someone could help me out. What is going on with 3-1? I am only picking up channel 49 through this channel. Channel 3 displays the proper programming but 3-1 is UPN 49.

OK I live in Athens about 10 miles north of Springfield. OK just like everyone I am looking for the Holy Grail of antennas. ;-)) I hate to experiment. I would love to get this right the first time. According to TitanTV I need a Winegard GS-2000A bidirectional antenna which would be nice to go bidirectional since I would not have to A/B two signals. Currently I can get Peoria stations (about 45 miles) albeit a little a snowy with a small loop RCA amplified antenna.

Thanks
T

Originally posted by jdmcdonald
[B]I was informed by WCIA this morning that wiavers to get
a satellite HD feed were available.

Would somebody be so kind as to explain the waiver process and restrictions?

I just spent the most infuriating 30 minutes on the phone with Dish's customer support (now located in India I might add). They could not tell me where on the web site it says this, but according to the CS person even though I subscribe to the Champaign locals, I cannot get CBS in HD unless I subscribe to the "distant locals" package which is another $5 a month. I asked that if I was going to have to pay for all the distant locals, could I simply substitute that package for the Champaign locals. He said I would have to apply for waivers from each of the networks, and most likely would not be able to get them all. So in effect CBS-HD would cost me $5 a month on top of the $5 a month I pay for the regular locals. Moreover, the waiver process would take up to 45 days.

This setup is too [CENSORED] convoluded!

-Dan

uhh..that's "convoluted".. :>)

My DISH installer applied for a waiver for me from WCIA and told me that they are usually being granted in a about a week's time. We'll see. I've also heard of people contacting the station directly and having them fax a waiver to DISH, but don't know if a specific form has to be used or who at DISH the fax goes to. Another approach is to change your service address to somewhere that qualifies for the distant network feed. Since Springfield can't pick up CBS OTA, anywhere there ought to qualify you. There is a long post earlier in this thread explaining how to do this.

The law that created this unholy mess is coming up for renewal soon. However, since the National Association of Broadcasters has continued to line the pockets of Congressmen and Senators with "campaign contributions," things will probably get worse, not better.

MIKE

Any updates available on WILL & WICD status? Eagerly awaiting more HD choices.

WILL is playing with themselves.

WICD says middel April.

WICS told me this morning that they are "slightly" behind their
sister. They are now at full tower height and about 4 or 5 kW ERP.

This is enough that I received them last night here in Champaign for
the first time. They disappeared overnight. I measured their signal relative to WRSP and they were exactly at the expected power difference.

Doug McDonald

I looked at antennaweb.org and saw that there is a Fox affliate in Bloomington, WYZZ. Does anyone know if they are transmitting Fox's 16:9 480p signal? They are closer to me than WRSP and might be easier to get, if they are at or near full power.

MIKE

43-1 is low power and the transmitter (if I remember correctly) is in Carlock, about 10 miles to the north west of Bloomington. The east side of Bloomington receives a mediocre signal strength. I'm in Mahomet and cannot get it.

Joe

mrab,

At this time WYZZ is just doing 480i for all programming at low power. We are working on installing at new transmitter and antenna along with equipment that will allow us to pass through Fox's HD in the fall. The weather has delayed us, but hope to start construction soon. We will have to take the low power digital off the air for several weeks during the construction.
Jim, Regional Manager

Originally posted by jdmcdonald
WILL is playing with themselves.

WICD says middel April.

WICS told me this morning that they are "slightly" behind their
sister. They are now at full tower height and about 4 or 5 kW ERP.

This is enough that I received them last night here in Champaign for
the first time. They disappeared overnight. I measured their signal relative to WRSP and they were exactly at the expected power difference.

Doug McDonald

Thanks for the update, Doug.

What has happened to WRSP ... I thought they had PSIP? But
last night it was not there.

Doug

I have more information to add on waivers to get the CBS-HD feed. According to DISH, my initial request for a waiver was denied by WCIA. I know someone who works at WCIA and asked her to approach the General Manager to see if that decision could be changed. I now have in my hand a printout of waiver for the DISH Network packages. Waivers are apparently done through a website called ww3.waivertv.com. I don't think I got any special favors, but you may have to contact WCIA directly to get the waiver approved. I think if you tell them you subscribe to the locals package from DISH, you ought to get the waiver. I don't think DISH provides that information to WCIA when the waiver request is sent to them.

Now I've got to spend what will probably be hours on the phone with DISH trying to find who can get the service started, though maybe this will be easier than I anticipate.

MIKE

I have PSIP for WRSP shut-off for now. Back soon..

"Have you ever lived in a market where your NBC station was owned by Sinclair, so you couldn't get NBC-HD? Well problem solved! Introducing WAND and WICD will be swapping networks!"

http://www.herald-review.com/current/Local_News/localnews1.php

There's a discussion at radio-info.com Coast-to-Coast TV board.

I hope you didn't like Monday Night Football. I think your chances of seeing it in the future just fell.

- Trip

WICD/S will have HD capability long before this happens. It will
only affect those people who can't get WICS/WICD because their
power is too low. The article seems to inply a switch date of Sept. 2005
(2004 is for Dayton OH), in which case Sinclair may already have upped the power.

The problem is WCIA/CBS.

Doug McDonald

Seems they got the cart before the horse - just got this from their site:

Getting Ready for Digital Television


(WILL-TV plans to launch its digital television service, WILL-DT, in spring 2004, allowing the station to transmit superior pictures and sound on Channel 9 while still broadcasting its regular signal on Channel 12. A February launch date was postponed so WILL could conduct a structural survey of its broadcast tower. The survey was needed to guarantee the safety of workers assigned to install digital equipment.

Read the articles on digital television, and check back for the launch date.)

You'd have thought that they would have done the survey long before the install schedule!!!!!!!

Geoffrey

(about WILL)

I would have thought so. Especially since they were originally
scheduled to get the new antenna about Thanksgiving. The engineer was
talking mid December ... but then said that management vetoed that because they would be off teh air during their begging period. So it was set for Jan. 15. Then it went to Feb. 15. Then they stopped giving a
date at all with that excuse. I think they simply don't want to do it.

Doug McDonald

That is bad news for me. I'm unable to get a good signal from WHOI but I'm able to get a great signal from WAND even though my ota is aimed at the Peoria stations. No more NYPD or MNF in HD for me after the switch. Now I will have two HD NBC and no ABC or CBS HDTV. I just got my HDTV about a month ago. Love HDTV. Just wish one of the local CBS stations would finally go HD. :mad: I dream of more HDTV content. Get it together local stations.

Originally posted by LoveMySonyHDTV
That is bad news for me. Just wish one of the local CBS stations would finally go HD. :mad: I dream of more HDTV content. Get it together local stations.

Unfortunately both WMDB and WCIA are owned by the same company, Nextstar. So the rules are probably similar for both stations. However, WMDB might have a better chance of getting HD then WCIA. Since WCIA is multicasting two stations on it, I don't believe that WMDB is. So that leaves room for HD. Does Peoria have a WB and UPN on the air? If they don't, I would not be surprised if Nextstar decided to add UPN or WB to its digital signal, and then maybe add a low power analog to please UPN or WB. But then they did not have to do this in Champaign, I guess cable carriage is good enough for them. (UPN, WB nets)

I believe Peoria's UPN, WAOE, is already broadcasting digitally on frequency 39 (and analog 59) on their own tower (thus fuzzy analog reception for me as it is a different direction than the main towers). must be kinda low power because antennaweb says a medium directional is needed , whereas every other Peoria station states small multidirectional needed.

The cable only WB station in Peoria is owned by the ABC station WHOI, so I doubt that they'd share with WMBD.

Yesterday I talked to WILL again. Their manager is getting very
waspish about people asking about their digital plans. He very clearly
has no desire to go digital and they are stalling, just plain using any excuse to stall. Currently, of course, they are stalling because they
are in a begging period. Funny ... the engineer said in early November that their antenna would arrive on Thanksgiving day, but he had been ordered
not to install it till after their late fall begging period, so he put a Jan. 15
time of TitanTV. That of course came and went, and they said mid February
in their program guide .... then they reneged on that date, with a pointer
on their web site. Now all mention of digital has vanished from the web site.

The web site at one time said Spring, so I guess the next renege date
will be June 21.

This people are simply stalling.

Doug McDonald

Then I will have to stall with my Pledge when they come begging unless they can tell us exactly what their intentions are.

:)

Geoffrey

According to antennaweb, the WCIA tower is in the same general direction as WAND. I get a solid lock on the WAND digital signal at about 85% on the meter of a DISH 811 HD receiver. However, WCIA is usually about 62% with a lot of dropouts. Could this be an overload problem or is WCIA just using low power on their DT transmitter?

I've also notice a lip sync problem in WAND's HD telecasts. Is this a problem for everyone or something unique to my setup?

I'm sure glad DISH and Viacom ironed out their dispute. CBS is doing the final two rounds of the Big 10 hoops tourney in HD and I'm hoping to watch the Illini win in both, though I wouldn't bet money on it, given the history of the Big 10 tourney.

MIKE

WCIA is low power.

Depending on where you live you could be getting overload from
Ch. 46. WCIA is of course 48.

Doug McDonald

Is there any good way to determine whether your problem is too much signal vs. too little?

Am I the only one with a lip sync problem with WAND? The DISH 811 has plenty of bugs and I guess this could be one of them.

MIKE

I've seen lip synch problems on WAND on occasion (with a Zenith HD-SAT520). I believe it's been mentioned here before as well.

Well, my waiver request for CBS HD through Dish was denied. Who is the point of contact for this at WCIA? Also, has anyone here *actually* gotten a waiver for CBS HD from WCIA, or is this all anecdotal?

Thanks,

-Dan

I have a waiver, so it's not all anecdotal. You need to contact WCIA's station manager; I don't recall his name, but if you call the station you can probably get through to him. You may want to soft sell your request, tell him you have a new HD set and want to watch the Final Four in HD, though you don't intend to abandon WCIA, etc. etc. I've got the sense that CBS might be pressuring their non-HD affiliates to grant waivers more freely than they have in the past.

If you are a basketball fan, hoops in HD in almost jaw dropping.

Let us know how you come out.

MIKE

Originally posted by mraub
You need to contact WCIA's station manager; I don't recall his name,... MIKE

His name is Russ Hamilton.

I dropped by WCIA after work today and spoke with Russ. At first he seemed a little put off by my request for a waiver and my claim that "others locally had been granted waivers." His response to the latter was "Oh? Really. How recent was this?" He ultimately took all my information and said that he would put the waiver request through.

He was quite pleasant, but the whole thing seemed a bit... "odd" (for lack of a better word). It was almost as if he was doing this reluctantly.

I wonder if there's a behind-the-scenes shitstorm (political or otherwise) surrounding all the waiver business (he did say that the waiver process was a complicated mess).

I have no idea what will happen next, whether Dish will contact me, I need to contact them or what...

Almost as complicated as trying to collect on an insurance claim from FedEx (another morass I'm sunk in at the moment).

-Dan

I think it would be tragic if Illinois ended up in the Final Four, carried in HD by CBS, but not by WCIA. Of course, that won't happen (I can't imagine the Illini beating Duke, let alone Texas), but it would be a very sad day for local TV viewers if it did - and one would hope it would be a terrible embarrassment for WCIA, but they probably wouldn't care or "get it."

On the other hand, I really don't care anymore. I gave up on WCIA months ago and moved my DirecTV subscription to Chicago, which qualifies me for the WCBS HD feed out of NY. And I still have my BEV system with CBS-HD from Boston and Seattle as a backup. I don't even watch the WCIA local news anymore; WAND has gotten my business on that front. Maybe one day in the future WCIA will see the light and I'll start watching them again. Not any time soon, though.

John C.

Originally posted by heavyharmonies
I wonder if there's a behind-the-scenes shitstorm (political or otherwise) surrounding all the waiver business (he did say that the waiver process was a complicated mess).

I have no idea what will happen next, whether Dish will contact me, I need to contact them or what...

-Dan

I also wonder how hard WICA took it with losing all those viewers to Dish and Direct when they pulled their WCFN translator in Springfield to make it UPN, and not CBS anymore. I suspect near a few thousand viewers up ad disappeared overnight, that they can't count any more. With probably hundreds every few months as time goes on. As more make the switch to satellite. This means fewer eyeballs, so they can't charge as much to advertisers.

They brought this mess on themselves by trying to bring a UPN on air without buying the necessary hardware to do it right As in, put up a tall stick with an antenna and a monster signal (5 Mega Watts) near Decatur and a microwave link. (Jeez, they already have a microwave between CMI and SPI, not hard to add more) But that would cost them on order of 3million. So they made up this kludge to get around the cost.

So now it's everyone’s headache.

I have no idea what will happen next, whether Dish will contact me, I need to contact them or what...

It's all done electronically. I have a printout of my waiver approval. It was done on ww3.waivertv.com. I called DISH the next day and they had it on their computer, though I had to go to technical support to get the HD feed activated.

Has WICD increased their digital transmitter power? I now get a solid signal from them off the back of a yagi pointed toward Decatur. Maybe HD soon?

MIKE