Originally posted by Yodobashi


For those of you with HD satellite (Dish/DirecTv)...
Does anyone local to C/U have a spare D*/E* dish I could borrow or that they would be willing to sell for cheap? I have been trying to get satellite at my apartment but the installers tell me I don't have a line of sight. That's entirely possible but the 2 min. visual check they did (no tools - not even a compass) to determine this didn't exactly make me confident that was the case - especially considering a lot of other people around here have dishes with similiar obstacles.

Or if anyone knows of some good installers around here, I would love to talk to them!

I don't have a spare dish, but here's a way you can check things for not a lot of money (even if you don't have this stuff yourself, you can probably borrow it from a friend, with the exception of the inclinometer, which is about $15 and useful for all sorts of things anyway). You need a camera, a tripod for the camera, a compass, and an inclinometer (sometimes called an "angle finder" - available at Lowe's and other hardware places). Put the camera on the tripod and set the tripod up at the spot and height that you would mount your dish. Find the elevation angle and azimuth for the satellite you are aiming at (use the satellite company's web site or any of the many independent sites that will calculate this for you). Use the inclinometer to set the elevation angle on the tripod head to the elevation angle for the satellite (make sure that the inclinometer is flat on the tripod head - you might need to remove the camera to find a flat spot on the head for the inclinometer). Lock it down, and use the compass to pan the camera to the correct azimuth (imagine a centerline through the lens - this is what you want to line up at the correct azimuth). Now look through the camera at maximum zoom. Are there any obstructions that you can see in the center of the viewfinder? If not, you're home free. If so, you're SOL.

John C.

Originally posted by bdfox18doe
Oh My.. I'll have to see what the folks at FOX have to say about that!
Must have been done by Dilbert's marketing department..

Just to clarify, it was a local WRSP / WCCU commercial -- not a national FOX commercial. Anyway, hope no one gets in trouble over this. (Doubt if 95% of Joe Public would even notice.) Just thought it was humorous.

Originally posted by Vitale'sFakeEye
I just upgraded to Directv's HD package and with it came the Samsung TS360 receiver. I found and old set top antenna that gets both UHF and VHF so I hooked it up. To my disbelief, this old $5 antenna actually picked up WAND and WICD HD channels. I could not get 3-1 very well if at all. When I did get channel 3-1 to come in the picture I was seeing said it was UPN. What gives? Also, would hooking up an amp to this old antenna allow me to pull in 3-1? All I want is ABC,NBC,FOX and CBS. I am pretty sure FOX 27-1 is out of the question.

You don't have a location specified but can you tune to 49-1 or 49-2???

T

I am in the Westlake Subdivision (Clayton and Duncan intersection). That is Northwest Champaign, basically between Prairie Gardens and Parkland College. I hope that is what you mean Thumper, if not sorry. I tried 49-1 and 49-2 but could not get a signal.

If you're that far away, you won't get 49-1 and 49-2. Those are the (very weak) digital signals coming out of Springfield.

Does your DTV box allow you to simply punch in stations?

49-1 should be a VERY easy signal in NW Champaign:
it's only 8 miles west, on Springfield Ave. 49-1 is actually
physical channel 48. So is 3-1, which is CBS. If you get 49-1, you get
3-1, period .... unless DirectTV prevents it.

In west Champaign it should be easy to get all networks,
CBS and UPN are actually channel 48
ABC is 18
WB is 22
Fox is 44 but is pretty weak.
All the above are west or southwest, and except for
Fox are about the same strength.

NBC is 41 and east, very strong.
Fox is also 26, and NNE, fairly strong.

The two Foxs show identical programming.

Doug McDonald

Doug,

I don't know if this will help but the receiver I am using is the Samsung TS 360. Yes, I can just punch in the station number. I tried punching in 49-1 and the receiver said no signal. I think that this is probably due to the fact the antenna is not that strong. I don't know, I am really a green-horn when it come to this stuff. Last night, 27-1 and 15-1 came in great and have continued to do so since I got the receiver 5 days ago. I punched in 3-1 and I got a picture last night but it was UPN 49. Now I really do not understand how that is. I punched in 3 and got the actual CBS analog feed, but it was snowy but watchable. All I want is ABC,NBC,CBS and FOX feeds. I don't care about UPN,WB, etc.. because I don't watch those channels. What I am most perplexed about is, how can I get WAND 17-1 but not WCIA 3-1? Isn't the CBS tower closer than that of WAND's? I probably am not making any sense. Aaaargh!

Try punching in the numbers I gave.

If you can get 49-1 you absolutely can get, physically, 3-1.

Try punching in 49-1, 49-2, 49-3, 3-1, 3-2, 3-3, 48-1, 48-2, and 48-3.

The only way you can get UPN and not CBS is if DirectTV is screwing you.

Doug McDonald

Originally posted by jdmcdonald
49-1 should be a VERY easy signal in NW Champaign[/B]

Didn't realize there was a 49-1 in Champaign. I assumed it was 3-1 and 3-2.

In Springfield, we have 49-1 (UPN) and 49-2 (CBS). Physical channel is 53.

When I got home I did a rescan of digital ota signals and that did the trick. I now get WCIA 3.1, WICD 15-1, WAND 17-1 & 17-2 and WCCU 27-1! Those are the channels I wanted and I can't believe I am picking them up with the antenna I am using. 23-1 comes in but is not strong so it goes out frequently. A friend came over tonight to check out the HD look of the football game and he couldn't believe that my antenna would pick up anything. What is even better is that the antenna is not an eye-sore to look at. I feel better now. Thanks for all the info Doug.

For those out of the area, what is on WAND 17.1 and 17.2?

17.1 is high def ABC, and 17.2 is a weather channel.

What are the following stations broadcasting their HD in, 720p or 1080i?

WCIA 3-1 (I think this is 420)
WAND 17-1
WCCU 27-1
WICD 15-1

Originally posted by Vitale'sFakeEye
What are the following stations broadcasting their HD in, 720p or 1080i?

WCIA 3-1 (I think this is 420) -> 480i
WAND 17-1 -> 720p
WCCU 27-1 -> 1080i; MAKE THAT 720P as per below
WICD 15-1 -> 1080i

Sorry Bob, I was doing that one by memory!

WCCU is 720p..Not 1080i

My receiver with convert 480i and 720p to 1080i if I want it to. Would you recommend that this be done or with their be a loss of pic quality. Should something being sent out in 720p be viewed as 720p and not 1080i? Or does it really matter? HD is HD.

I would say let your reciever convert the signal to the 'native' high res setting of your monitor.
Many CRT based sets like may rear projection Hitachi are Native 1080i (therefore, my box converts all incoming signals to 1080i).

Many plasma's and DLP's are 720p

This keeps 'converting' to a minimum.

Migman

HELP!!

I'm not getting WCIA-DT or WCFN-DT one hour before the Illini game today.
Is anyone else having a problem? All other digital stations are at their normal signal strength. Signal for both of these is at 0 or might flash to 30% once every 5 min. or so. I have a Dish 6000 receiver.

John

No problems here receiving 49-1 or 49-2

T

Does anyone know why WRSP-DT, channel 770, is not working in Springfield? Insight says the problem won't be fixed until Monday or Tuesday. I was looking forward to watching 24 in HD tonight.

Bob or other WRSP/WCCU folks:

Can you comment on the GB/Minnpls game? Picture quaility is some of the worse I have seen all football season--like back to 480p Fox WS days? Are you getting a good HD feed from the network?

Hey Guys-
We had to make some changes to the WRSP/WCCU Transport streams to meet some new legal requirements. Apparently, Insight's equipment is having a problem accepting the changes, even tho we seem to have no problems with OTA reception that we know of.
As to PQ of the game, I haven't looked here to see what it looks like. If the
game is in 16x9 on WRSP/WCCU, then we're passing what is being delivered to us by the network.

It's 16x9, but the picture quality is rather disappointing. Previous FOX games have looked better. Others in the HDTV programming forum are saying the same thing...

I don't think it looks as bad as some here make it out..the cold and moisture are having some effect on the cameras as well.

Originally posted by bdfox18doe
we seem to have no problems with OTA reception that we know of.
As to PQ of the game, I haven't looked here to see what it looks like. If the
game is in 16x9 on WRSP/WCCU, then we're passing what is being delivered to us by the network.

I can confirm that both WRSP and WCCU are fine OTA. And it is in 16x9, 5.1. Just the picture quality is lousy (but I admit getting a little better in the past 10 min).

Originally posted by bdfox18doe
Hey Guys-
We had to make some changes to the WRSP/WCCU Transport streams to meet some new legal requirements. Apparently, Insight's equipment is having a problem accepting the changes, even tho we seem to have no problems with OTA reception that we know of.
As to PQ of the game, I haven't looked here to see what it looks like. If the
game is in 16x9 on WRSP/WCCU, then we're passing what is being delivered to us by the network.

I can't even pick up a signal from WCCU here in Danville. Where-as I've gotten great reception before.

We'll be looking at it tomorrow on both stations. Please keep us posted.
Thanks.
Rick what is your rx again?

Originally posted by bdfox18doe
We'll be looking at it tomorrow on both stations. Please keep us posted.
Thanks.
Rick what is your rx again?

:confused: :confused: :confused:

What does "rx" stand for?

rx = receiver

Not going to catch me complaining about PQ today.

It's the first time since the ice storm that enough ice melted off my bow ties to get reception from 60 miles away.

From my perspective, everything looked great. ;-)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by bdfox18doe
We'll be looking at it tomorrow on both stations. Please keep us posted.
Thanks.
Rick what is your rx again?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I have the Hughes HTL-HD. I've done numerous scans to "read" your signal but I get a big fat 0 on the meter here in Danville. I've been receiving your WCCU signal great up til the last couple of days. I have a mammoth RS antenna mounted on top the house that can pick up INDY stations, so the antenna is not the problem. All the other channels, (i.e. 3-1,15-1,23-1,17-1) are being received normally.

Does anyone know where I can buy the Zenith silver sensor antenna in Champaign-Urbana? I have tried Sears, Best Buy, Circuit City and Radio Shack. Maybe it is in one of these stores and I walked right by it but I don't think so. I would rather not buy the product on-line because of the return hassel if it doesn't work. Thanks.

VFE:

Try Farm and Fleet.

I got a zenith rotor from FM.

cheers,

Geoffrey

Originally posted by bdfox18doe
Hey Guys-
We had to make some changes to the WRSP/WCCU Transport streams to meet some new legal requirements. Apparently, Insight's equipment is having a problem accepting the changes, even tho we seem to have no problems with OTA reception that we know of.


You obviously haven't asked, and I haven't bothered to comment.

You DO have OTA problems. On my Motorola OTA box WCCU is still
the same, no picture on Channel 27-2. On WRSP (which I still
use in preference to WCCU, since I don't have to switch antennas)
a few days ago it stopped working entirely. I did a rescan and the
box had a terrible time locking onto the transport stream ... it seemed
like forever to decide what to do. It did recover 55-1 which now works fine.
But now there is no picture on 55-2. I didn't check the sound.

Doug McDonald

55-2 should NOT be present on either station at this time..Now, with that said..do we have a problem in regards to your STB?
Also are awaiting feedback from the MFG on fixing the 55-2 issue.

I tried Farm and Fleet with no success.

Originally posted by Vitale'sFakeEye
I tried Farm and Fleet with no success.

On Zenith's website Circuit City is listed as one of their authorized merchants. I know you said you didn't see it there, but you may give them a call and ask about it.

Originally posted by bdfox18doe
55-2 should NOT be present on either station at this time..Now, with that said..do we have a problem in regards to your STB?
Also are awaiting feedback from the MFG on fixing the 55-2 issue.

It depends on whether "NOT be present" means not having a picture,
or not being in the list of sub-channels. It is present in the subchannel
list but has just a black screen.

Incidentally, it should not say "WRSP-SD".

Doug McDonald

Originally posted by Vitale'sFakeEye
Does anyone know where I can buy the Zenith silver sensor antenna in Champaign-Urbana? I have tried Sears, Best Buy, Circuit City and Radio Shack. Maybe it is in one of these stores and I walked right by it but I don't think so. I would rather not buy the product on-line because of the return hassel if it doesn't work. Thanks.

Found a Silver Sensor at True Value in Monticello. They only had one though (which I bought). Don't know whether other True Value's carry them.

I called CC and they don't have the Silver Sensor in stock. I may try the Terk TV 32. I really wanted something I could set on or near the tv. Presently, I am using an old RCA UHF,VHF, FM antenna that picks up 15-1 and 17-1 with no problem. Yesterday I was able to get 27-1 to come in but 3-1 wouldn't not come in no matter what I did.

Hi. I hope another HD Tivo owner can help me on this one. I've been able to tune in FOX, ABC, and NBC OTA and the guide information has been added to my TIVO guide for everything but 27-1 and 27-2 FOX. It just shows "Regular Schedule", which makes it pretty much impossible to setup season passes. 55-1 shows up, even though I can rarely tune it in, and for 55-1, the program guide is complete. Anyone know how I can get the program guide info for 27-1/2?

For the HD Tivo, guide data comes from either Tivo or DirecTv..even tho WCCU is inserting local EPG, that reciever won't read it. Since WCCU is a
satellite of WRSP, unless the listing services carry it, it won't show up.
Hence why you can get data for WRSP and not WCCU.
We're working with Tribune and DirecTv to see if this can be remedied.

Thanks. Hopefully it will be remedied soon. In the meantime, I guess I can setup manual recordings on WCCU.

Bob or Ken,

Still not getting anything from WCCU here in Danville. Does it check out allright on your end? I'm showing zero signal strength. Tried re-scanning 3 times again today with no results.

Everything on WRSP-DT and WCCU-DT looks ok here on my end. I'm watching "24" off air on both of them right now.

WRSP coming in fine in Sherman on my HTL-HD. Performed a scan just to see if it would pick it up again. Picked up 55-1.

WRSP and WCCU okay on my system in Champaign. WRSP is at 40-44% and WCCU is at about 32-36% on my MyHD card. I am not seeing any dropouts on WCCU but 32% is about the minimum strength I can get a stable picture. I usually just watch WRSP because it almost always is just a bit stronger for me.

Note that I have attic mounted antenna with woooden siding and a wooden shake roof. The roof is definitely still wet and the wet layer of wood shakes definitely will attenuate the signal a bit.

jtv

Rick,
We're stillmaking some changes and testing some configurations..
(we do a lot of that here). I'm not sure why, but you should not have a
problem in Danville. More later today.

Well Good Vibes intalled a Wineguard Sensar II today. It's installed above the roofline of my two story townhome. All they could get tuned in were ABC and CBS. Even rotating the antenna all the way around, they couldn't get higher than a 35 on the OTA tuner of my Hughes HR10-250. Well, after they left I decided to play around with the Silver Sensor that I picked up the other day. After positioning it high on a bookcase in my living room and pointing it at WCCU (FOX), I'm able to pull in a 60 or above signal for ABC, NBC, and FOX, without even moving the antenna. It sure kicks the Wineguard's butt.

The Winegaurd Squareshooter works better than the silver sensor..
The Sensar, I'd make them take that back..

Originally posted by bdfox18doe
Rick,
We're stillmaking some changes and testing some configurations..
(we do a lot of that here). I'm not sure why, but you should not have a
problem in Danville. More later today.

This is really weird, during a thunderstorm last night, we briefly lost power for 10-15 seconds. When my rx re-booted itself it automatically rescanned and low and behold I got WCCU back (only 27-1, no 27-2).
:D :D

Aren't electronics fun? :confused:

That's the norm.. That's why we kinda laff when some folks instantly pop up and say our stream is wrong.. between all these receivers out there,
there's always one that doesn't like something in the transport.

Hope to make a few more changes today, and are awaiting new software
for WCCU..Please keep me posted, I know where you are as I did signal checks thru Danville.

Is anyone using the Square Shooter antenna in Champaign-Urbana? Also, I see that Best Buy is selling a Terk antenna with a look very similar to the Square Shooter, anybody using that? If so, how is it working for you and what part of the Champaign-Urbana area is it located? Thanks

Originally posted by Vitale'sFakeEye
Is anyone using the Square Shooter antenna in Champaign-Urbana? Also, I see that Best Buy is selling a Terk antenna with a look very similar to the Square Shooter, anybody using that? If so, how is it working for you and what part of the Champaign-Urbana area is it located? Thanks

I have a SS in my attic (2 story house), with a pre-amp, pointed to the southwest and it pulls in all stations in that direction reliably, including the FOX Springfield station and (usually) the NBC Springfield station. I have a small Radio Shack UHF yagi pointed to the west for WICD and WCCU, hooked into the feed line with a splitter mounted backwards. It took a little adjusting to get everything to work right, but the setup seems very reliable right now. A good place to get the SS is:

http://www.solidsignal.com

They're up in Michigan, so it's only a couple days for delivery. Good prices and service, too.

MIKE

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I am only able to receive ABC and NBC with the Wineguard Sensar II that was installed by Good Vibes. My question is.. Since I can receive FOX fine with my Zenith Silver Sensor, is there some type of antenna combiner that can be used so that I don't need to switch back and forth? I've tried a diplexor from Rshack as well as a simple splitter/combiner and neither seemed to work.

Originally posted by kkj1961
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I am only able to receive ABC and NBC with the Wineguard Sensar II that was installed by Good Vibes. My question is.. Since I can receive FOX fine with my Zenith Silver Sensor, is there some type of antenna combiner that can be used so that I don't need to switch back and forth? I've tried a diplexor from Rshack as well as a simple splitter/combiner and neither seemed to work.

When you say the splitter/combiner didn't work did you mean you lost all signals or one of the antennae didn't work? I have 2 antennae connected with a splitter wired backwards and it works fine.

Also, you might see if you can get FOX from WRSP in Springfield. I get a better signal from them than I do WCCU. Their digital channel is 44 (remapped to 55-1 and 55-2).

MIKE

Originally posted by mraub
When you say the splitter/combiner didn't work did you mean you lost all signals or one of the antennae didn't work? I have 2 antennae connected with a splitter wired backwards and it works fine.

MIKE

What do you mean by wired backwards?

Originally posted by mdamberger
What do you mean by wired backwards?

I put the feeds from the 2 antennae in what ordinarily would be the output jacks and the feed to the TV in the input jack--so, basically backwards from its usual use to split a single feed into 2 feeds.

MIKE

Originally posted by mraub
I put the feeds from the 2 antennae in what ordinarily would be the output jacks and the feed to the TV in the input jack--so, basically backwards from its usual use to split a single feed into 2 feeds.

MIKE

Another thought. It's possible that some splitters might be designed to pass a signal only one way. However, if what you bought was described as a "splitter/joiner" you wouldn't think that would be the problem. You might want to try another brand of splitter, just to be on the safe side.

MIKE

using splitters to mix/combine antennas can cause a ghost to be induced into the receiver..as the receiver sees the same signal from both antennas a lot of times, doing this won't work very well.

Using a splitter as a joiner will will fine and reliably so long as
you have two high gain, high directionality, antenna
well up in the air above a house getting good clean signals
from directions different enough that one antenna completely
dominates the other on each channel. If they are on the
same mast, or even within a few yards of one another, if
they cancel it will not result in "multipath" type problems,
but total signal loss.

I've tried it with indoor antennas in my house and it basically
does not work because each antenna sees reflections from
nearby trees. The result is not multipath as normally talked
about (ghosts) but total signal loss. It varies depending
on how wet the trees are.

Doug McDonald

Hasn't anyone else seen this? I was watching West Wing the other night and it started out in HD then went back to SD then back to HD and so on. I was watching this on NBC (15.1) and noticed it also happening on WAND (17.1). I understand that commercials are not HD. Just curious.

Yep. Don't know about abc, but nbc was definitely having problems with hdtv vs sd during west wing. They switched back and forth at least a few times.

jtv

I lost 55-1 about 8 weeks ago,channel not available message on screen no guide either. I used to get it now I dont. Rooftop antenna is correctly positioned and using rca dtc 210. ANY IDEAS ? THANKS

Rich,
Have you tried a re-scan on the 210 (actually samsung). Changes to our PSIP have required rescans for many receivers. The change has to do with dynamic vs static psip, which apparrently many receivers don't like.

Reception of WRSP at my abode in Champaign has been bad this winter, much worse than last winter.

I had reliably been getting an 8 dB signal margin, now
it is running 1-4 dB with occasional dropouts. On rare occasions
I have to get up and switch to my WCCU antenna.

My Motorola box was unhappy with the PSIP change, but eventually
recovered by itself, giving me -3 and -4 subchannels. Only
the -3 had a picture, however. A rescan resulted in -1 and -2
sunchannels and pictures on both ... this is both on WRSP and WCCU.

Doug McDonald

People in this thread should go read the Peoria thread. The agressive
moderation recently imposed has resulted in an unfortunate separation,
since we and Peoria share the same misery.

There is talk that Nexstar (WCIA) is in dire financial shape and is likely to
1) demand money for cable carriage and
2) go belly up completely

This was of course predictable ... It is a good bet that their top
management is well taken care of with rhodium plated platinum parachutes,
not to mention a big year end bonus.

Doug McDonald

Originally posted by jdmcdonald
A rescan resulted in -1 and -2
sunchannels and pictures on both ... this is both on WRSP and WCCU.

Doug McDonald

Thanks for the report Doug. The remux that converts WRSP into WCCU
has new software, so good to know the Moto is happy with it. Not sure
that it is 100% correct yet for all boxes.
We probably need to re-check the corrections on WRSP, which could be the
cause of your lower margain.

Query: I know that this thread is primarily for discussion of OTA HD issues. Is there a like thread for discussions of C-U/Danville/Decatur pro and con experiences with satellite installs, or is that appropriate here as well?

I'm having Voom installed on Thursday, and thought I'd provide a play-by-play for others locally thinking about ditching E* or D*.

Voom (or more accurately Installs, Inc.) is notoriously bad, so I thought the information would be useful.

But I don't want to clutter this thread if it isn't the appropriate place to do so...

Originally posted by heavyharmonies
Query: I know that this thread is primarily for discussion of OTA HD issues. Is there a like thread for discussions of C-U/Danville/Decatur pro and con experiences with satellite installs, or is that appropriate here as well?

I'm having Voom installed on Thursday, and thought I'd provide a play-by-play for others locally thinking about ditching E* or D*.

Voom (or more accurately Installs, Inc.) is notoriously bad, so I thought the information would be useful.

But I don't want to clutter this thread if it isn't the appropriate place to do so...

If the discussion is about HD, I assume it'd be OK--but I'm not the moderator.

Buddy from Peoria who did pro installs in a previous life tried the free Voom offer awhile ago (before switching back to Directtv.).

He walked the guy through the entire install. Said the fella had ZERO idea of what was going on. Guy asked if he could call my friend if he had any questions about any of his other scheduled installs. Being the decent guy he is he said sure.

One big advantage to either DISH or DirecTV is that with a waiver (if those are still available under the new law) or a "move" to a Chicago area service address, you can get the CBS-HD feed, something that probably won't be available OTA here for about a year. I don't think VOOM offers any of the networks. CBS has the NCAA basketball tournament, which may be of great interest this year in Illini Country.

Originally posted by mraub
One big advantage to either DISH or DirecTV is that with a waiver (if those are still available under the new law) or a "move" to a Chicago area service address, you can get the CBS-HD feed

So how is this done?

Originally posted by Cubfan
So how is this done?

Under the old law, you could have the satellite carrier request a local station to allow you to receive a distant network feed. Stations routinely deny these requests. A personal visit to the station manager usually got you a waiver. There's a lot of debate on whether this practice can still be used under a new law passed by Congress late last year.

"Moving" is the practice of calling the satellite carrier and telling them your service address has moved to the Chicago area, but keeping the billing address the same. This gets you HD because CBS owns the Chicago station and has granted a blanket waiver to allow an out of market HD signal to be delivered to viewers in that area (the HD feeds are those of CBS' New York and LA stations). This is mildly fraudulent, but since we're dealing with rather trivial regulatory statute, I've never seen any great moral dilemma. It's about on par with driving 75 on the Interstate, technically illegal but who cares (not even most cops).

A lot more on these topics can be found on:

http://www.dbstalk.com/

Originally posted by Vitale'sFakeEye
Does anyone know where I can buy the Zenith silver sensor antenna in Champaign-Urbana? I have tried Sears, Best Buy, Circuit City and Radio Shack. Maybe it is in one of these stores and I walked right by it but I don't think so. I would rather not buy the product on-line because of the return hassel if it doesn't work. Thanks.

I saw the Zenith Silver Sensor at K's Merchandise in Champaign on Saturday right around $25.00, they also had one of those TERK stick type antennas in stock. Two things I have observed with indoor set top antennas is that they are extremely directional pulling in digital signals, sometimes just a tiny bump will dramatically change the ability to get a signal, secondly the best direction seems to drift through the day, at different times of the day differents directions extremely differently.

Originally posted by EAW
Buddy from Peoria who did pro installs in a previous life tried the free Voom offer awhile ago (before switching back to Directtv.).

Just out of curiosity, what made him leave Voom and go back to D*?

Programming in general. There are obviously more HD channels on voom but not enough that truely interested them and to counteract the fact that the Sunday Ticket and all it's HD games were gone.

He was also a Direct TV test customer form waaaay back. He has an RCA receiver that he doesn't use anymore that's serial number is 3 or some very low number. Point being, that he and his wife were just very familiar with the Direct TV menus etc which also added to going back.

I think he reads this forum so maybe he can provide more detail. Not sure if he actually posts though.

I'm the guy referred to by EAW. The VOOM install was a disaster. I did the install and the tech assisted me. No big deal, but I expected more. Programming lacked content. There was some flashy stuff but nothing (save for VOOM news) that caught my interest. Ho hum. The last straw was the receiver. I could not get locals that my Hughes E86 for DTV could get. The receiver lacked sensitivity. Also, the receiver was not mapped for all my locals. Bummer. Hopefully those problems are fixed, but at the time I wanted the equipment out of my house. Guess who did the uninstall? I had it all wrapped up, boxed and packaged when the tech arrived. At the time it was my prediction that VOOM would not make it. I don't know if things have changed.

How long ago was this, and do you recall the name of your installer? Hopefully it's not the same outfit that's doing installs in C-U. :(

As far as programming vs. E*, I'm not seeing that much of a difference. I'll give up HDNet and HDNet movies, but that's about it...

It was in the Spring of '04, I forget the exact date, May, I believe. I don't recall the name of the installer, but he was from the Chicago area. Apparently, at the time, VOOM was hurting for installers and most anyone could qualify and be called up for a local or distant installation. I didn't mean to rant in my earlier post and I have nothing against VOOM, it's just that not much went right. It was only in December that the billing thing got straightened out. I read in the Wall Street Journal yesterday that VOOM's board of directors (Is it Comcast?) were to meet to decide the future of the service. I thought I read that after a year or so VOOM had only 40 thousand customers, something like that. That's a shame because I'm an HD junkie and I'm sure there are many other folks looking for quality HD programming. I neglected to mention that the guy was representing Installs Inc., and he said he had yet to receive training on how to properly install, set up and align a dish, etc.

dalevelk,

GREAT find! Thanks for the heads up with K's merchandise and the Silver Sensor. I went there yesterday and picked one up. It works exactly what I need it for, it picks up 3-1, 15-1, 17-1, 17-2 and 27-1 just great. I was not able to get 3-1 with the other antenna too well but this antenna locks right on. Now, if the Illini are shown on 49-1 (UPN) then I am screwed but until I figure out exactly what I want to do about either an attic or outside mount this will work perfectly. Again thanks for the heads up.

3-1 and 49-1 are just different sub-channels of the same signal (48 if I remember right). SO if you get 3-1 you are automatically getting 49-1. May need to check your receiver to make sure it's picking out the subchannels properly - it's definitely not an antenna issue.

Hope that helps, jtv

jtv,

Maybe someone who has the Samsung TS 360 could chime in but I have tried over and over again to get 49-1. I rescan for signals but 49-1 never comes in. When I first got the receiver about 3 weeks ago, when I first tried the ota channels for some reason on channel 3-1 the picture was coming from UPN 49. I posted this earlier when it happened and I did a rescan and it took care of the problem. That is, 3-1 was showing WCIA but no 49-1 could be picked up. If anyone has any ideas on what to do let me know. Sorry if this sound confusing but I don't know how to explain it.

Originally posted by Vitale'sFakeEye
jtv,

Maybe someone who has the Samsung TS 360 could chime in but I have tried over and over again to get 49-1. I rescan for signals but 49-1 never comes in. When I first got the receiver about 3 weeks ago, when I first tried the ota channels for some reason on channel 3-1 the picture was coming from UPN 49. I posted this earlier when it happened and I did a rescan and it took care of the problem. That is, 3-1 was showing WCIA but no 49-1 could be picked up. If anyone has any ideas on what to do let me know. Sorry if this sound confusing but I don't know how to explain it.

You might try posting your problem in the HD Hardware group here. I think a lot of people there use Samsung receivers and may be able to give you some help. It's a bit unusual to have a completely separate station on a subchannel and that may be the cause of the problem.

Sorry, I don't know anything about that Samsung unit. Can you do a manual scan on a single channel. If so, do a manual scan on channel 48 and see if maybe it picks up 48-1 -> 3-1 and 48-2 -> 49-1.

On my Motorola box, an auto scan will occasional miss one of the stations and I do this manual scan to pick it up. The titantv site shows the physical channel number for all local stations, e.g

physical -> logical
9 -> 12 pbs, someday we hope
18 -> 17 abc
22 -> 23 wb
26 -> 27 fox
41 -> 15 nbc
44 -> 55 fox
48 -> 3, 49 cbs, upn

Those are from memory, so someone correct me where needed.

jtv

Well, Voom is in the house. :)

I'm running into a problem with OTA channels and the Voom receiver.

(I'm using my own antenna/rotor that I had previously; I did not have the VOOM OTA intenna installed).

For one thing, the Voom receiver appears to be less sensitive (doesn't pick up the channels as easily) than my Dish 811 Receiver.

A bigger problem is NBC.

My Dish 811 finds NBC at frequency 41 and places it at channel 41.1 in the guide, not channel 15.1 like it should (for example CBS is at frequency 48, but is placed properly into channel 03.1 in the guide). It displays the channel just fine though. The Voom receiver, on the other hand, detects a signal at frequency 41, places it into the guide at 15.1, but there's nothing to display. In other words, it sees "something" with a signal strength of 98, but can't display it.

I'm able to get in the other OTA channels just fine.

The fact that the Dish receiver finds NBC, but places it in the wrong channel slot makes me wonder if the local NBC affiliate is doing something nonstandard that the Voom receiver simply cannot handle.

Suggestions?

As far as the Voom install itself, it went pretty well. The installer was about an hour late, but he had called me this morning and said he might be running late, and I had told him not to rush, that I'd be home all afternoon. All in all, the communication was quite good.

He was a friendly guy, and we chatted quite a bit while he was doing the install. He does installs for all of the satellite providers, not just Voom. He said that he has been doing quite a few Voom installs locally as of late, which bodes well. He had no problem with me using my existing OTA antenna/rotor setup.

Due to some issues with the siding/facia on the house, he had to place the dish on the roof itself. It's at the very corner of the house, and I really don't see an issue with snow pileup; if anything it's close enough that snow could be broomed off if necessary.

I had all the connections ready and labeled before he got there, so hookup was a breeze.

He never even raised the issue of phone line being hooked up, which is good, considering I don't have a land line (there was a possibility that this might be an issue, given the relative ferocity with which Voom insists that you have a land line).

I've not spent any major time looking through channels, because the Illini game is on, for Pete's sake! :D :D ESPNHD looks the same as it does on E*.

A few downsides that I've found thus far, none of them dealbreaking (and there may be solutions to some that I just haven't had time to research yet):

1. When you display info onscreen for a channel, there's no signal strength indicator like there is on the 811. I found that extremely handy.

2. No way to stretch/pillarbox on-the-fly like there is with E*. You have to go into a menu and change your defaults. Pain in the butt. Luckily I'm also routing the signal via S-video through an Iscan HD, so I can change aspect ratio on-the-fly there for SD (which is most likely where you'd want to change AR anyway).

3. You cannot manually add OTA channels singly, you have to do a complete rescan, which is a pain.

I just signed up for the base Voom package ($54.95/month). I'm toying with the idea of keeping E* just for the HD pack so I can retain HDNet and HDNet Movies, in which case I can route my OTA through the 811 and avoid the Voom receiver anomalies. I think I've read where you can unsubscribe from everything but the HD pack. True?

We'll see how things go (and if Voom stays in business...)

-Dan

I can't help you technically with your question Heavy but it is not looking for Voom. Voom (http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/01/19/business/dolans.html)

I would really like to see E* buy Voom.

T

Yeah, wonderful ****ing timing. As of earlier tonight, E* has bought the satellite. All sorts of speculating over at satelliteguys.us as to when Voom will go dark. Could be days or weeks.

I guess I won't be cancelling my E* service after all.

Sad thing is, after now watching for a few hours, that none of E*, D*, and Insight have enough HD content to keep me happy. They all suck.

One bright cutting-edge light, smothered...

A friend of mine got a nice 60" Sony Wega LCD screen a few weeks ago that I finally got to see last night. He lives in Champaign here and for the life of us we could not get it to pick up any local over the air digital signals. We tried some lovely indoor $50 antenna from Radio Shack as well as a directional antenna up in the attic. With the attic antenna, we were actually picking up WICS-20 and WRSP-55 analog signals out of Springfield! The Decatur stations were coming in great too, but for everything we tried it would not pick up any of the digital stations. I tried manually typing in stuff like 3.1 and 27.1 and 17.1, but wouldn't find it. I went to the diagnostics screen with the signal strength and everything was 0%, wasn't even a hint of life on any of the stations. We spent like 5 hours screwing with it, even doing a complete reset on the TV to no avail. We had the antenna plugged into the antenna jack on the back and had the TV in 'antenna' mode. The analog stations were coming in great, but no digital.

Any thoughts on this? I know digital stations run less power than their analog friends, but we should have been able to receive at least the Champaign digital channels. Thanks for your help!

-Stan

Stan: I use attic mounted Radio shack yagi antenna (in two storey house) and pick up cbs (48), nbc (41), fox(26 and 44), wb(22) and abc (18). BUT I find that I need to use a pre-amp to get most of these stations. I use the $60 Channel Master preamp they sell at Lowes.

For experimenting, I recommend you try to get WICD-15 NBC on physical channel 41. I have tried using indoor antennas and this was the only one I could get using the little Radio Shack double bow tie antenna with no pre-amp.

Note that the direction you point these antenna is fairly important. Further up in this thread I posted a little map showing the direction of all the broadcasting towers.

Good luck, jtv

Originally posted by stanswx
A friend of mine got a nice 60" Sony Wega LCD screen a few weeks ago that I finally got to see last night. He lives in Champaign here and for the life of us we could not get it to pick up any local over the air digital signals. -

My first thought would be to ask if this set has a HD tuner built-in. If it does and you could not receive WAND-DT out of Decatur, then something is seriously wrong. WAND-DT is at full power and I can almost get them with a safety pin stuck in my antenna jack. Maybe the the ATSC tuner is broken or maybe HD OTA must be enabled in a menu somewhere (not very familiar with Sony TV's).

MIKE

Originally posted by stanswx
A friend of mine got a nice 60" Sony Wega LCD screen a few weeks ago that I finally got to see last night. He lives in Champaign here and for the life of us we could not get it to pick up any local over the air digital signals.

-Stan

What model of Sony is it? Maybe someone has it, or can look up the model number and see if it's got an ATSC tuner.

The Model # is KDF60XS955. Thanks!

-Stan

Originally posted by mraub
My first thought would be to ask if this set has a HD tuner built-in. If it does and you could not receive WAND-DT out of Decatur, then something is seriously wrong. WAND-DT is at full power and I can almost get them with a safety pin stuck in my antenna jack. Maybe the the ATSC tuner is broken or maybe HD OTA must be enabled in a menu somewhere (not very familiar with Sony TV's).

MIKE
Mike,

Yes, it's got an HDTV tuner built right into it. I've looked in the manual numerous times and cannot find anything to 'turn it on'. Thanks!

-Stan

I am at Lincoln Christian college in Lincoln. I am needing help in getting CBS. Cause WCIA took the signal from Springfield and made it UPN I can't get CBS from Champaign or Peoria to come in at all. I am using an RCA indoor antenna on the 2nd floor of a 2 floor dorm. Any help?

can anyone near lincoln get CBS on an indoor antenna?

Originally posted by Jhamps10
can anyone near lincoln get CBS on an indoor antenna?

I'd suggest you plug your address into the search engine at www.antennaweb.org That will give you distance and bearing to the Peoria CBS tower, which is probably your only hope of getting CBS OTA.

I don't think the Peoria CBS station does HD yet. There is also a Peoria area thread on this forum, which might help.

Jhamps news is not good :(

According to www.antennaweb.org (antenna locator)

Your CBS choices are pretty minimal. F=orget Peoria and WMBD. They are not transmitting in digital yet. I live just north of Springfield and I can get CBS (49-2) OK (Also I get CBS through D* with a waiver). The Springfield station is digital but is not passing any HD content though. With a decent antenna setup (preamp/quality antenna/location) you would probably receive it.

T

hey thanks for the info, One question, can you get the HD feed on a regular TV? and so what are the physical TV channel numbers for the HD feeds?

Originally posted by Jhamps10
hey thanks for the info, One question, can you get the HD feed on a regular TV? and so what are the physical TV channel numbers for the HD feeds?

You cannot receive HD on a standard NTSC television. You must have a set or other display device that either has an HD tuner built in or has inputs to receive the output of an outboard HD tuner (some which include a satellite receiver). Almost all HD or HD-capable sets sold today are in the 16:9 widescreen format to match the format of HD broadcasts.

MIKE

WMBD does have a digital signal (30-1, shows as 31-1). Just not HD. And the digital signal is particularly poor. You aren't missing much.

I am looking to add an OTA receiver to get local channels in HD. I live in West Champaign (off Staley between Springfield and Kirby), and I am wondering what I would be able to pull in with an antenna on my balcony (which faces East, but is really unimpeded to the North and South). I would especially like to get Fox for the Super Bowl...

My plan was to try to find one of the Direct TV receivers, just the receiver and not with D* service, to use for its OTA capability and get a (hopefully) inexpensive outdoor antenna. I don't have an attic because I live in a condo, so I figure that a smaller outdoor antenna is my best bet. I am open to suggestions on the receiver front, and mostly planned on a Direct TV model because they seem to be pretty cheap. Right now, I have the Insight HD package, and the box they include doesn't do OTA.

Where can I get a tuner around here, and what kind of antenna should I be looking for? Any advice you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

If you want just OTA, you can't use a DirectTV tuner ... you have to
pay for DirectTV or they charge your credit card a big bundle.

You can get Motorola HDT101 or a Samsung SIR-T351 for $250
at Circuit City, assuming they actually have them. Walmart is
supposed to have the USDTV receiver.

As to antennas, "Silver Sensor" ones are good. Fox and NBC are
east, all others are west. You may very well still be able to get the
west ones.

Doug McDonald

I have had the LG LST-4200A for about 6 months now and it is a *great* STB compared to my previous Zenith 420 and Samsung STBs. This one seems to be more sensitive than the others. This one does ATSC and NTSC.

Very reputable dealer....
4200A (http://*********************/LG%20STBs.htm)

T

jguyette,

I live only a few minutes from you (Clayton and Duncan intersection) I suggest going to K's merchandise and picking up the Silver Sensor (approx. $25). It is on an end cap next to their big screen tv's. A member here directed me there and the Silver Sensor works great. You may have to move it aroung here and there to get certain channels. Luckily I found a spot after much moving, that allows me to watch FOX, ABC and NBC HD shows with no problem. The Superbowl will look like nothing you have ever seen.

Also, I currently am using a Samsung TS 360 HD receiver to get the OTA signals. I would not recommend this receiver because it has some quirks on ESPNHD during certain shows. I personally can live with it for now, but Directv said that they will send me a different receiver when I choose to do so.

In case you have not noticed, we here in Champaign (per se) now have a
third Fox digital station, WYZZ-DT in Bloomington. They have gone full power
and at least last night put a strong signal into my house. I got them on
a double-bowtie antenna.

They are not yet HD, but are promising it for the Super Bowl.

Doug McDonald

Doug:

Thanks for the heads up. WYZZ Fox43 came in loud and clear on physical channel 28. This is from SW Champaign with my attic mounted small Radio Shack yagi pointing due west.

jtv

I have Dish Network HDTV service & my question is if I plug a TERK TV50 antenna into the "8VSB TV ANTENNA/CABLE in" at the back of my HDTV receiver from Dish Network will that get me HDTV broadcast in the S/W Champaign area? or do I need a OFF AIR HDTV receiver as well?

Thanks, Jason

All current DISH HD receivers have a built-in over the air HD module. I'm not familar with the antenna you mention, though Terk antennas don't have a very good reputation. A Silver Sensor (available at K's Merchandise) might do you better, though it is directional. If you browse through the messages on this thread you'll find someone has posted a link to map showing the locations of the digital transmitters in this area. About half are to the east and half to the west, which makes a highly directional antenna not ideal. I have 2 antennas in my attic, one pointed east and the other west, which works well for me. I too live in SW Champaign.

MIKE


Originally posted by CIOUTLAW
I have Dish Network HDTV service & my question is if I plug a TERK TV50 antenna into the "8VSB TV ANTENNA/CABLE in" at the back of my HDTV receiver from Dish Network will that get me HDTV broadcast in the S/W Champaign area? or do I need a OFF AIR HDTV receiver as well?

Thanks, Jason

Quick question about the "moving" technique to receive HD CBS from Directv. I have a friend that lives in the Chicago suburbs (Naperville), so if I call Directv and give them his address as my "service address", then I would qualify for CBS-HD, right? Do they require you to give a phone number for the new address?

I don't think they are picky about phone numbers, but the people on this forum might have better information for you:

http://www.dbstalk.com/

I think Directv now has all the network HD feeds available, or will soon have them. I also think all the network affiliates in Chicago are owned by the networks, so if you "move" you may be able get all the networks in HD without an antenna. You might want to make sure the address in Naperville qualifies for the feeds. If you get too far west you might be in a Rockford DMA and be required to get a waiver to get the network feed.

MIKE


Originally posted by kkj1961
Quick question about the "moving" technique to receive HD CBS from Directv. I have a friend that lives in the Chicago suburbs (Naperville), so if I call Directv and give them his address as my "service address", then I would qualify for CBS-HD, right? Do they require you to give a phone number for the new address?

Does anyone know if going to see Russ at WCIA will be worthwhile in getting a waiver. I want CBS HD and that looks like the only way other than "moving." Does one have to set up an appointment to see him?

There are questions about whether waivers work after Congress passed the new SHERVA law in December. However, if WCIA will give you one and the satellite company accepts it, I guess it is good. WCIA used to give waivers to allow reception of the CBS-HD signal only, which is probably the only thing you want anyway.

You may be able to get better information on the status of waivers here:

http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=79

Good Luck!

Originally posted by Vitale'sFakeEye
Does anyone know if going to see Russ at WCIA will be worthwhile in getting a waiver. I want CBS HD and that looks like the only way other than "moving." Does one have to set up an appointment to see him?

Does anyone know the status of PBS going digital? Delay after delay after delay

Where are you located at Vitale??? That I am aware of WSEC has already made the switch. If you are talking about the Champaign one, I believe there has been recent conversations on this and if memory serves me they are stalling. ;) Mraub can step in here???

T

Originally posted by thumperxr69
Where are you located at Vitale??? That I am aware of WSEC has already made the switch. If you are talking about the Champaign one, I believe there has been recent conversations on this and if memory serves me they are stalling. ;) Mraub can step in here???

T

jdmcdonald has been the member here trying to get information from WILL on when they'll start passing through PBS' HD programming. I hear PBS has a travel show with stunning HD imagery, which I'm looking forward to seeing.

My bad Thumper. I am in Champaign. Last night on my silver sensor I was able to pick up the analog channel of WICS! Couldn't get it to lock on to 20-1 but I couldn't believe it was getting WICS

I've been the member tyring to get info on WILL. Last call the chief
engineer finally got really really really mad at me and hung up on me. He
said "is your name McDonald? I've been warned about you. All I'll say
is that we expect to be on in April." He won't say what the real
problems are. He does talk about the "tower"... but they eventually got the
antenna up. Mention the phrase "transmission line" caused the above mentioned explosion. I do believe he gets huffy if you show
some sort of knowledge of how TV works.

Remember that this is a new chief engineer who took over early last
fall.

I'm actually afraid to try to talk to the station manager, for fear that
I will wilt like a steamed lettuce leaf under his fury. He does not like
people who ask for technical quality, nor people who are not clearly
Left Wing politically.

Somebody else will have to start annoying WILL if we want real
info.

Oh yes ... they claimed for awhile that "Physical Plant" was
causing them problems. Well, I just had a big project done by
them .. much bigger than WILL's ... and they got done on time
(except for CITES, who was three days late.)

At least WEIU has an actual, real, genuine good excuse: their
transmitter site deal fell throught at literally the last hour, and they
had FAA [sic] problems with their next try. I suspect that the failed
transmitter site deal was intentional on the part of the company
that backed out, in an attempt to cut competition.

Doug McDonald

A friend of mine was actually offered the chief engineering job when it first opened up. Of course he didn't take it because (1) he had a better job offer and (2) he said that there are "problems" at WILL. He said nobody knows what is happening from one day to another. Another friend of mine actually lives two houses down from the current engineer.

Doug,

I received an email from Carl Caldwell and in the email he said the following: "We intend to begin transmitting an SD and HD signal in March of this year.
We're very anxious here to launch this new service."

Originally posted by Vitale'sFakeEye
My bad Thumper. I am in Champaign. Last night on my silver sensor I was able to pick up the analog channel of WICS! Couldn't get it to lock on to 20-1 but I couldn't believe it was getting WICS

Especially for this time of year, tropospheric conditions were certainly giving TV signals some "extra mileage" last evening. I had WICD-DT in and out most of the evening (94 miles) and I had a few brief locks on WAND-DT (143 miles). On analog, WICD-15 was quite good, too, while WAND-17 was trying to blast through a local low-power station on ch. 17. I'm using 2 Triax UHF antennas horizontally stacked at 30 ft. with the CM 7775 preamp.

Since WICD-DT cranked up its power I see it from time to time and I'm sure I'll see it a lot this summer, when tropospheric conditions generally peak.

Steve
Indy

I've searched for an answer to my question on this thread and I'm sure it's there but I can't find it. Help me out someone.

I live in Clinton, In 47842. I can pull in all of the Champaign/Urbana and Decatur digital stations except WCIA. However, the Program Guides on both of my DirecTV HD receivers only show "Regular Programming" for WCCU-DT (27.1 and 27.2). Oddly, the programming is displayed for WCCU's sister station, WRSP, which is much further away. It's also displayed for WCCU's analog broadcasts.

Is this an inherent problem which you all face? If so, is it because WCCU is not transmitting banner info for its digital broadcasting? Someone please educate me.

Thanks

WCCU-DT does transmit EPG (Electronic Program Guide) data. DirecTV receivers do not read EPG data transmitted by terrestrial HDTV stations, they receive all their EPG data from the DirecTV satellite. Unfortunately DirecTV is only sending EPG data for WRSP-DT, we are working with them on this issue and hopefully we can reach a resolution soon.

I tried WRSP and WCCU last night. Both work fine, but there
is no program guide for either. Station name yes, program guide,
no. This is true on both Motorola and Samsung T-151 boxes,
after a rescan. It has been this way for at least a couple of
weeks.

WYZZ-28 Fox Bloomington also has no program guide.

Doug McDonald

Hmmm....
I'm seeing EPG here for both stations, but I'm looking into why you can't see it Doug.

I'd appreciate it if others could post if they are able to view the EPG on WRSP-DT and WCCU-DT. Please include your location, which station you are checking and what receiver you are using.

Did/Do have guide. WRSP-DT. Outside Peoria. Hughes E86

As of now Wednesday 02/02 4PM I'm getting a small reading on digital channel 9 here in Danville. Conditions are not favorable for a distant channel skip. Could it be WILL foolin' around?

Ken:

Per your request, I have the Sony SAT-HD300 and the DirecTV HR10-250. Both get WRSP-DT's program guide and neither get WCCU-DT's. I'm in Clinton, IN 47842, have a 40' tower and a Channel Master 4242 antenna with a CM 7777 preamp

Indy, I have a Sony 300.. It does NOT read OTA EPG, which is why you don't see anything on WCCU..It uses the DirecTv APG, and DirecTV does not carry the WCCU listing. We are working on that issue. I'm pretty sure
that is the same for the HR-10 as well.

As Ken mentioned, we'd like to know who does and does not get EPG on these stations..we work closely with one of the PSIP generator MFG's, I spoke with them today and we/they suspect a bug in the program that
causes the data to be intermittent on the receivers that actually will read OTA EPG.

Thanks in advance for the feedback..

bfoxdoe: if it is intermittent, it is intermittent on a time
scale of weeks!

Anything to do with Tijuana?

Doug McDonald

No..but..

"merci" for the info.. !:)

This morning a program guide appeared on both WRSP and WCCU,
but one of them, I forget which, was an hour off on the clock time.

This was both the Samsung and Motorola receivers.

*****************************************************

As for WYZZ, they are stretching out 480i content, and there
is no way on my receiver system ... and on lots of others ...
to get it in the proper 4:3 aspect ratio without downconverting it
back to 480i and then up to 720p again. They need black bars
like WCCU and WRSP.

Doug McDonald

Thanks Doug. I've been out of town, and haven't touched the PSIP generators since last week. I did hear from the mfg late yesterday, they
are working on the bug. Probably WCCU is off-clock, which is another known bug in the Remultiplexor.

Hey all...
Tonight on Insight digital channel 770, a Fox HD channel showed up. I am real excited about this - just in time for the big game. I just hope it lasts past that point and becomes permanent...
Knock on wood.
Joe

Feb 4:

last night WCCU and WRSP again had no program guide,
still none this morning

Did anyone else notcie that WAND-DT appears totally off the air?
I don't get a peep, even the strange appearance I see analog
on the n+1 channel (i.e. ch 19 for WAND).

Doug McDonald

Doug,

I could not get 17-1 at all last night either.

Why is it that WICD and WAND's picture looks better than WCIA's picture when channels are not in HD? On my tv 15-1 and 17-1 have a much better SD picture than 3-1.

WAND used to turn off their digital transmitter at midnight. I found that out while trying to do a channel scan late one night and wondering why I could not pick up their usually very strong signal.



Originally posted by jdmcdonald
Feb 4:

last night WCCU and WRSP again had no program guide,
still none this morning

Did anyone else notcie that WAND-DT appears totally off the air?
I don't get a peep, even the strange appearance I see analog
on the n+1 channel (i.e. ch 19 for WAND).

Doug McDonald

After more tests, WCCU and WRSP have a program guide that
really is intermittent on a 1/2 day scale. This morning that of
WRSP took about 5 minutes to appear after tuning it in.

WYZZ seems solid.

Doug

Anyone else experiencing no signal from 17-1? So far, I have yet to get it to come in this entire Saturday

It was out when I checked this morning. Haven't checked this afternoon.

17-1 WAND has been out for me since Thursday night.

Email from WAND's engineer. I don't know what the heck he is talking about but:

"The input cavity of the tube won't take over twenty thousand volts and
we have been promised a new one on Thursday of this week."

I guess this mean maybe later this week for HD content?:confused:

Having problems with WICS as well this morning. Strong signal, but no audio / video.

Vitale,

It means they are merely broadcasting at low power. So, hopefully,
everything will be well by close of business on Thursday. I hope!

Our stations have elected the following channels as their "final"
digital ones:

WCIA 48
WICD 15
WAND 18
WBUI 22
WCCU 26
WRSP 44
WILL 9
WYZZ 28
WEIU 50

All of these are as expected. Note that only WICD has elected
to go back to their analog channel for digital. This is because
15 is enough lower in frequency than 41 that it will get somewhat
bigger coverage.

Doug McDonald

Originally posted by jdmcdonald
Our stations have elected the following channels as their "final"
digital ones:

WCIA 48
WICD 15
WAND 18
WBUI 22
WCCU 26
WRSP 44
WILL 9
WYZZ 28
WEIU 50

All of these are as expected. Note that only WICD has elected
to go back to their analog channel for digital. This is because
15 is enough lower in frequency than 41 that it will get somewhat
bigger coverage.

Doug McDonald

I have to read the rules again. But I believe that since WCIA has decided to leave its analog channel for another frequency. That they will have to build out their DTV facility to replicate their analog coverage on channel 3 within a certain time period before the analog "switch off" date. So by next summer they need to have a full power DTV channel 48 on the air. With that kind of coverage on 3, they will need to build a mega watt facility, maximized power and probably build a higher tower to make that coverage pattern. We are probably talking in the neighborhood of 1.5miilon dollars to be spent on tower and transmitter facilities. The tower they have now will never support the kind of antenna they will need for that maximized facility. They could go with a taller tower and lower power a bit, but with the kind of transmitter and antenna they need, 1 mega watt is not hard to achieve at this level of investment. Might as well protect your coverage area. What a project that will be. But hey, at least it will all be new equipment and not some 50 year old tower and drafty building. Better hurry up and make plans now 3! :)

Doug,

Does that mean that in coming months we will not have channels like 15-1 and 17-1? We will not have to worry about the hyphen anymore?

Originally posted by Vitale'sFakeEye
Doug,

Does that mean that in coming months we will not have channels like 15-1 and 17-1? We will not have to worry about the hyphen anymore?

No one knows this yet. Will they call themselves by their new and
only digital number. or the old analog one?

The hyphens will remain, as they still can have subchannels. WAND
will clearly keep their weather channel, unless NBC makes them get rid
of it. 1080i takes more bits than 720p for acceptable quality,
because it is interlaced.

Doug McDonald

I read somewhere that Nexstar had hired a company to coodinate their full DTV conversion. If I recall correctly, the plan was due next month. Maybe when the plan is done we'll know when WCIA will finally start passing CBS' HD programming. It clearly won't be done in time for the NCAA basketball tournament (at least this year's tournament).

MIKE





Originally posted by mdamberger
I have to read the rules again. But I believe that since WCIA has decided to leave its analog channel for another frequency. That they will have to build out their DTV facility to replicate their analog coverage on channel 3 within a certain time period before the analog "switch off" date. So by next summer they need to have a full power DTV channel 48 on the air. With that kind of coverage on 3, they will need to build a mega watt facility, maximized power and probably build a higher tower to make that coverage pattern. We are probably talking in the neighborhood of 1.5miilon dollars to be spent on tower and transmitter facilities. The tower they have now will never support the kind of antenna they will need for that maximized facility. They could go with a taller tower and lower power a bit, but with the kind of transmitter and antenna they need, 1 mega watt is not hard to achieve at this level of investment. Might as well protect your coverage area. What a project that will be. But hey, at least it will all be new equipment and not some 50 year old tower and drafty building. Better hurry up and make plans now 3! :)

Originally posted by Vitale'sFakeEye
Doug,

Does that mean that in coming months we will not have channels like 15-1 and 17-1? We will not have to worry about the hyphen anymore?

You will still have sub-channels. Right now if they want to, they can include program guide data on the analog channel and have a reference to the digital channel for the receiver. Analog would be referred to as 15-0, digital 15-1 and so on. When 3 moves to 48 they will still keep the "Channel 3" branding, even though the receiver channel will be 3-1. That is, until another station were to decide to build a facility on channel 3 (frequency). Then WCIA would have to give up the "branding" of 3. That is unlikely to happen, most low VHF stations (2-6) are abandoning their channels in favor of UHF, or if they are luckily a high VHF (7-13) channel. The low VHF channels just have too much interference and co-channel for digital to work on a consistent basis. Turn on that microwave and the station goes away..

Low VHF will work fine for digital with enough power. It is just that
none as of yet have that power. Enough means substantially more
average power digitally than analog. The 100 kW for low VHF analog
means peak power, which corresponds to about 20-30 kW average power.
50 or 100 kW average power for low VHF, especially channels 4, 5, and 6,
would work very well.

Channel 3 in Chicago, for comparison, is roughly 3.7 kW.

Doug McDonald

Doug McDonald

here is an email I received today from the WAND engineer. It is short and sweet, well not sweet that is.

"Now the tube itself has shorted out. Delivery first of the week, sorry"

to WCCU and WRSP:

I tried your PSIP last night with bizarre results.

The Motorola show no program information at all, ever,
when you push the button that shows the current signal levels and
current program and next program.

But when you push the extended program suide button, it showed
some short stretch of prgramming for Sunday morning, starting
about 6 or 7 in the morning. It was different for the two stations. It usually
appeared that way, but sometimes even that did not work.

Doug McDonald

Has anybody else noticed that WAND's channel mapping has
gone bonkers?

Doug McDonald

Has anyone else been having problems receiving WCIA lately? The last few weeks I've had real problems tuning the station in, almost like they've dropped their power immensely.

Tonight I tried homing in on it using my rotor, doing a full 360-degree sweep, and never did pull it in at all.

-Dan

Doug,

Your not the only one. My WAND-DT wants to map to 18-1 and 18-2. I get good signal strenth but no picture at all. I'm actually glad to see someone else with a problem. I still have a problem with WICD locking up my receiver(Dish 6000), it has a good signal but I have yet to get it a picture since they went HD. I talked to their engineer months ago about it but I never followed up. I guess NBC hasn't had anything on compelling enough for me to worry about it.

GO ILLINI!!

John

Heavyharmonies, Did you have any problem getting 3-1 (49-2) during the Illini game yesterday??? It came in fine for me.

T

Man, two weeks in a row without Desperate Housewives in HD. I am not a big enough fan to watch it in SD. Trying to tune it in sends my RCA into a fit. They better get it fixed before Lost and Alias or I will be really mad, what else can I do LOL

Originally posted by thumperxr69
Heavyharmonies, Did you have any problem getting 3-1 (49-2) during the Illini game yesterday??? It came in fine for me.

T

I got it, but it kept flickering in and out. I had to put on WDWS for the audio, because the WCIA broadcast was unlistenable for most of the game.

I have had no problems with WCIA.

Doug McDonald

Why cant Comcast move just 2 or 3 analog channels on Standard Service to digital? That would open up about 12-18 Mhz of bandwidth for more HD and VOD.

Originally posted by heavyharmonies
Has anyone else been having problems receiving WCIA lately? The last few weeks I've had real problems tuning the station in, almost like they've dropped their power immensely.

-Dan

WCIA has definitely been harder to pull in recently. My Motorola box pulls it in fine, but the slightly inferior tuner on MyHD card has been having a lot of trouble keeping a stable signal. Both are using same antenna feed. Haven't had this problem before over the past few months that I can recall.

jtv

As Jdmcdonald has said I believe WAND must be doing some channel swapping in the last week or so. I did a rescan tonite and WAND appears to be "normal" (as it used to be).

T

No audio on WRSP tonight or is it just me?

Noticed when I got home from work on KOTH at 5:30

Ken will fix it it it's broke! Anyhoo, if broken it will be there during network time.

No problems with audio that I have noticed, listening to it now.

Sounds great.

Since you are taking requests, can you get WMBD in Peoria up in HD by the time Illinois is in the final 4?

Thanks in advance.

And WCIA, while you're at it. :)

The commercials had no audio all night but the shows did. What would cause that? Is that really somehow on my end?

Originally posted by EAW
The commercials had no audio all night but the shows did. What would cause that? Is that really somehow on my end?

I noticed that from WCCU last too. It was only on the "local commercials" though. The audio on the network commercials were just fine.

Turns out we did have a audio problem after all with local content only. Problem is fixed now.

you know, there's been everyone complaining about WCIA and poor reception. Well, how bout this, I was flipping thru the TV channels on my new TV and all of a sudden WCIA pops up, now I did a antenna web search from my address in Lincoln, and said that it was only 45 miles to the tower. Hopefully when I get back from spring break next week, WCIA will still come in. P.S. Champaign is actually about 60 miles from Lincoln, so I must really have a good inside antenna.

This was on Fri. Night when I was checking things out, about midnight. I do have a little bit of help, by being on a second story building. gee maybe channel 3 raised power on 3 or maybe I had the antenna set just right, havent touched it since fri night, and when I turned the TV on Sat. morning, it still came in.

Originally posted by Jhamps10
you know, there's been everyone complaining about WCIA and poor reception. Well, how bout this, I was flipping thru the TV channels on my new TV and all of a sudden WCIA pops up, now I did a antenna web search from my address in Lincoln, and said that it was only 45 miles to the tower. Hopefully when I get back from spring break next week, WCIA will still come in. P.S. Champaign is actually about 60 miles from Lincoln, so I must really have a good inside antenna.

Their transmitter tower is actually about 15 miles west of Champaign, appr. half way between Champaign & Monticello. So the 45 miles is probably accurate.

Based on the discussion here, and the FCC approval of a new construction permit here, on February 14:

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_list.pl?Facility_id=25684

I shall assume that WICD is now at full power as of Friday. You can't reliably get a 2 kw ERP DTV signal 45 miles out! :-)

Unless, of course, they're just testing...

Originally posted by sebenste
You can't reliably get a 2 kw ERP DTV signal 45 miles out! :-)



Even with a smiley that is not true.

I suspect that with an standard big Yagi at 30 feet off the ground
WRSP could be received reliably at 45 miles if they were at 2 kW ERP.

A Salina KS 2 kW ERP station ... with a 2000 foot tower ... would
need only a Silver Sensor antenna in a second floor window of your
standard farmhouse at 45 miles.

We are talking Channel 44 here, of course, not channel 2.,
which would go much farther. if you had an antenna well away
from impulse noise.

Doug McDonald

Jdm,

I find it incredibly hard to believe that anyone could get a *reliable*
signal 45 miles out, even with a stacked yagi, with 2 kw of power.
Mathematically, assuming a 41 dB signal level at that distance
to get a lock seems impossible. Now, on top of a mountain, maybe you
could get 25 miles. In Chicago, we have a 15 kw on channel 27 at 1400'
and they can be received with a CM 4228 8-bay UHF and a CM 7777
preamp 65 miles out here in DeKalb. However:

2 kw is really low power for a DTV station (15 kw on UHF is considered
an LPDTV)
Channel 44 is higher in frequency than 27
Atmospheric conditions (fronts, inversions, etc) will affect the signal
much more than a 100 kw signal or higher

I'm not saying it is impossible to get. But *reliably*, or consistently,
I'd have to say no. Reliably getting channel 2 is impossible at 2 kw at
45 miles because of tropo, E-skip and power line noise. Heck, in
the big cities, as has been proven, even at 10 miles out, it's darn
near impossible in some areas.

> if you had an antenna well away from impulse noise.

For nearly all of the population, that's impossible. 65 miles west of
Chicago, WBBM-DT 3 in the cornfields still gets eaten up alive by
impulse noise and other things that make reliable reception
impossible. BTW, I am still shaking my head at those stations who
chose to go back to VHF-LO. They will pay in the end with lower ratings
for OTA users, which nullifies savings from a lower power bill.

Does anybody know when the FCC will REQUIRE that all stations must have a DT signal and the analog signal turned off?

Still a matter of debate at the FCC and in the Halls of Congress. I've read the FCC favors something like 2008 as the date when analog must be shut off. Much lobbying is going on, as you might expect.

MIKE


Originally posted by Jhamps10
Does anybody know when the FCC will REQUIRE that all stations must have a DT signal and the analog signal turned off?

hey here's some breaking Network news! In the fall, WICS/WICD will no longer be a NBC station, and WAND will be the NBC, leaving WICS/WICD to be the ABC station!

That was first announced a couple of months ago. Fortunately, we won't lose any HD with this change. I recall that Nexstar's consultant was to present their HD conversion plan sometime this month, so maybe we'll soon have some additional information on when we can expect CBS-HD from WCIA. It clearly won't be in time for the NCAA basketball tournament.

Originally posted by Jhamps10
hey here's some breaking Network news! In the fall, WICS/WICD will no longer be a NBC station, and WAND will be the NBC, leaving WICS/WICD to be the ABC station!

maybe in time for the NCAA tourney in 06.

What I'd really like to see would be CBS-HD from WBUI, which
probably would change their name. Would they dare "WCUI", which
is available?

I'll bet that the WBUI owners would mortgage anything to
get HD equipment to broadcast CBS.

This would leave WCIA and Nexstar with WB.

And when the transition ended, CBS would end up with the
superior channel (22 vs 48) and a higher tower.

Doug McDonald

Another interesting tidbit:

WILL's digital construction permit has expired!

They have filed for an extension, to run out on May 9, but
it has not been approved.

Technically this means that even if they get their station all
complete they will have to ask for a special temporary authorization
to turn it on at all. And if they don't get it done soon, they are
going to get admonished. Very very very few "public" stations
have gotten to the admonishment stage. Mostly this has been
reserved for relatively low-power (but standard license) religious stations
operating as repeaters of satellite channels.

Doug McDonald

Originally posted by jdmcdonald
Another interesting tidbit:

WILL's digital construction permit has expired!

They have filed for an extension, to run out on May 9, but
it has not been approved.

Technically this means that even if they get their station all
complete they will have to ask for a special temporary authorization
to turn it on at all. And if they don't get it done soon, they are
going to get admonished. Very very very few "public" stations
have gotten to the admonishment stage. Mostly this has been
reserved for relatively low-power (but standard license) religious stations
operating as repeaters of satellite channels.

Doug McDonald

Hi Doug,

A reliable birdie told me that equipment procurement and a big
turnover of engineers due to retirement is making life not fun
for WILL's current engineer. Don't blame the current one, he
got screwed by this (not the former engineer's fault, either...just
bad timing all the way around) and he now is trying to get the
necessary parts to get this thing on the air. It's not the antenna;
it's been up on the tower since fall. I don't want to say more, but
I say this so that you and everyone else knows...don't blame
the engineer. Now that I understand the situation, he's been
put between a rock and a hard place. At this point, there is no
sign on date, but word is they're gunning for late spring. Also,
WEIU-DT has an expiration date of May 4 on their CP, so they'll
probably hit the air pretty close to each other. Looking at their
web site, they should make that.

Yeah, TBN has been hit hard by this rule. However, they've gotten
their act together and a bunch of stations are going full power
this year. Complete list is on tbn.org's main banner page. The one
north of you, WWTO-DT 10 in Ottawa, also has a STA which expires
around June 3, if I recall correctly, for their measly 55 watts of
power. They are going to have it done by then.

The current engineer at WILL sent me an email telling me that plans are to go digital in March. He didn't say what time in March but definitely this month.

The last time I talked to the guy ... when he got all huffy and screamed at me ...
he said "early spring". I took that to mean June 19 :-).

It would be fun if WEIU-DT put a useable signal into Champaign before WILL-DT!

Doug McDonald

Since WILL will be on a VHF channel, I wonder how hard it's going to be to receive. My Squareshooter supposedly has some VHF capabilities, but the NTSC signal from WILL has quite a bit of snow.

MIKE

Originally posted by Vitale'sFakeEye
The current engineer at WILL sent me an email telling me that plans are to go digital in March. He didn't say what time in March but definitely this month.

Thanks for the note,

The University finally appears to be moving on our tower repairs. Our
Engineering staff now estimates an April launch for digital. I've become
very reluctant to make any firm announcements about DTV because of the slow
pace being taken by the Campus to pay for the half-million dollars in tower
upgrades and modifications. Our Chief Engineer is estimating an April
launch, so I'll gladly concur with him on that. I'd like it to happen
before my white hair falls out completely.

Again, I appreciate your continuing interest.

Carl

Vitale,

The info I got was from a few days ago. When did you get your information?

As for WEIU...it just might happen.

Gilbert

I received this email today at 9:00 am

It's too bad that CBS isn't sending an HD crew to the RCA Dome in Indy for the NCAA games this week featuring the #1 Illini, but then again WCIA doesn't believe in HD so no loss there. Hopefully Nexstar and WCIA still believe in color television <sarcasm>. WCIA does use color cameras, right? Nexstar's WTWO, Terre Haute is still waiting for stereo audio.........Really sad..................

No Indiana teams in the tournament this year so good luck Illinois!

Steve

I wonder if the manager of WCIA will be inundated with waiver requests. All games after the first round will be in HD. I just latched on to a ticket for the games in Indy, though I doubt my view will be as good as I'd get with an HD broadcast.


Originally posted by goldrich
It's too bad that CBS isn't sending an HD crew to the RCA Dome in Indy for the NCAA games this week featuring the #1 Illini, but then again WCIA doesn't believe in HD so no loss there. Hopefully Nexstar and WCIA still believe in color television <sarcasm>. WCIA does use color cameras, right? Nexstar's WTWO, Terre Haute is still waiting for stereo audio.........Really sad..................

No Indiana teams in the tournament this year so good luck Illinois!

Steve

Well WCIA may be delinquent in bringing us HDTV, but at least they are bringing national attention to the hometown market.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/13/politics/13covert.html?pagewanted=7

In this NY times article, WCIA are cited for replaying government produced videos from the usda as if they were news reports from the station. They even got the USDA to modify the by-line at the end to give the impression that WCIA produced the report.

Here's an idea - if we could convince the USDA, State, Defense, HHS etc to produce their government "news" videos in HD, maybe WCIA would jump in and upgrade so they could continue to play them without further local production costs.

jtv

On CBS.com website there is this link to their stations broadcasting in HD.

http://www.cbs.com/info/hdtv/hdtv_stations.shtml

I wrote them an E-mail advising them of their error on WCIA and of course informed them that they are the only major network without an HD signal in the 82nd largest market in America. Shameful. :D

Anyone have the audio dropping in and out last night on Fox HD during the American Idol program?

Originally posted by Vitale'sFakeEye
Anyone have the audio dropping in and out last night on Fox HD during the American Idol program?

It wasn't on the national FOX HD feed I was receiving on D**.

Vitale I assume you are receiving 55-1 WRSP??? For me 55-1 OTA was perfect as as far as audio and video for that matter during American Idol.

:D

T

The CBS affil in Madison, WI is going to show a different game on their
digital side when another is playing on the analog. Granted, with
the U of I games on, no one else is going to watch anything but that,
unless it's a 4th quarter total blowout. But I wonder if your CBS
station has plans to do the same thing?

Originally posted by sebenste
The CBS affil in Madison, WI is going to show a different game on their
digital side when another is playing on the analog. Granted, with
the U of I games on, no one else is going to watch anything but that,
unless it's a 4th quarter total blowout. But I wonder if your CBS
station has plans to do the same thing?

No! Russ Hamilton (station manager) was on yesterday (Wednesday 03/16/05) and he stated that they have notified CBS that they will be staying with the Illini for the whole game, irregardless of what the network feed does. I forget the exact "terminalogy" that he used for the right of WCIA to do that.

Anyone notice that WCIA (49-2) quality has gotten much better of late. More specifically there has been "running sparkles" quite often except tonite. CSI looked really good for SD.

In general I don't watch 49-2 because I do have a waiver for CBS feeds on D* but is this a precursor to us seeing CBS in HD before the Illini on Thursday???

One can dream...;)

T

with a disclaimer of course. Also will broadcast 2 channels 12-1 HD, 12-2 SD

http://www.will.uiuc.edu/tv/digital/default.htm

I live 60 miles SE of the FOX 55 tower location. Does anybody have a good guess if I could pick up the OTA HD signal? According to checkhd.com I can with a large outdoor antenna, but how high? The SD FOX feed from St. Louis via DISH is horrible, worse than the other "locals". I REALLY want HD for football. Thanks

Originally posted by stelmobarry
I live 60 miles SE of the FOX 55 tower location. Does anybody have a good guess if I could pick up the OTA HD signal? According to checkhd.com I can with a large outdoor antenna, but how high? The SD FOX feed from St. Louis via DISH is horrible, worse than the other "locals". I REALLY want HD for football. Thanks

If many in Champaign are getting it, then I would think you should. Thanks to the flat Illinois prairie a good amplified deep fringe antenna mounted above your roofline should do the trick.

Thanks! I'll give an antenna guy a call.

We'd love to hear how you come out on that "Barry"..

I want to buy one of the $250 HDTV OTA receivers now available, and pull in HDTV programming.

I live in Champaign on Foothill Drive, south of Kirby and in between Mattis and Prospect.

What channels can I expect to get?
a) with an "indoor antenna" on the 1st floor
b) with an antenna in the attic of a 2-story house

And if (b), what antenna would you recommend?

Sorry for the mooching of info with little to offer, but you guys obviously know this stuff inside and out. Thanks for whatever you can tell me.

David

Try checkhd.com or antennaweb.org ,I think that is correct, put in your address and viola!

You may need 2 antennae, since about half the stations are to your east and the rest to the west. Radio Shack sells a very cheap UHF yagi and a couple of them in your attic might work for you.


Originally posted by DavidL
I want to buy one of the $250 HDTV OTA receivers now available, and pull in HDTV programming.

I live in Champaign on Foothill Drive, south of Kirby and in between Mattis and Prospect.

What channels can I expect to get?
a) with an "indoor antenna" on the 1st floor
b) with an antenna in the attic of a 2-story house

And if (b), what antenna would you recommend?

Sorry for the mooching of info with little to offer, but you guys obviously know this stuff inside and out. Thanks for whatever you can tell me.

David

David: I am about 1/2 mi south of you. Using the indoor RS double bowtie, I could get only a single station. I now have two attic mounted antenna - one pointed west and the other east. Both are the cheap ($20) small Radio Shack UHF only YAGI antenna The west antenna also has a $60 Channel Master pre-amp I picked up at Lowes. I run both a Motorola STB and a MyHD computer card.

Actually, with a newer stb box with performance similar to my Motorola (HDT-101) you might just get away with one west antenna. I put the east antenna up back in the old days before wicd increased their signal strength. With just the west antenna, I pull in WICD (15-nbc), WCIA(3-cbs), WRSP(55-fox), WAND(17-abc) and WBUI(23-wb) all reliably without drop-outs. I can usually get wccu(27-fox) but I think wrsp is slightly easier for me.

This post has a map of the broadcasting antenna for local stations.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4829884&highlight=map#post4829884

jtv

To DavidL: the antenna web sites are basically useless.

Where you live you are unlikely to get reliable reception of
all networks with one antenna no matter where placed.

However, with one antenna at the far west end of the attic facing
west, and one at the far east end facing east, you will, though
a switch is needed. Winegard or ChannelMaster quad bowtie antennas
are appropriate. The Rario Shack double bowtie will probably work too.

This assumes that your house is at least as high as others around it.
If not, you may have to search for a good signal or mount a pair
of antennas back to back on the roof.

The problem is Fox and the eventual WEIU.

Doug McDonald

Doug: You are right concerning Fox WCCU - I can only pick that up on my east facing antenna and a switch is needed. (Although my MyHD computer card actually has two astc inputs, so the switching is automatic in the software.) On the other hand, the Motorola HDT-101 stb only has a single antenna input. On that box, I don't bother trying for wccu, but wrsp comes in reliably from the west so I get by with just the one antenna on the Motorola box.

My post above was slightly misleading since one might have inferred you could pull in wccu on the west facing antenna. You can sometimes, but it's irregular. Also note that these results are for the RS yagi antenna. I am guessing that the back screen on the cm or winegard bowties might be more effective and hence reduce one's ability to bring in stations from the rear direction. No personal expereince with those, so I'll defer to others on that judgement.

jtv

Jdm et al,

Why not use a CM 4221 (or whatever it is called now) and use a rotor?
Fox Peoria booms into Chambana. As apparently does the one in
Springfield. With WEIU-DT about to hit the air:

http://www.weiu.net/newtower.html

You'll need to cover northwest, west, east, and south. 4 antennas?
Put a small VHF antenna on the rotor and then you are set.

Rotors are a PAIN if you are an aggressive commercial zapper.

Better a switch.


What is needed is a 4 or 6 or 8 element turnstyle (batwing) antenna ... looks
like the main, top, transmitting antenna of Channel 3, is omnidirectional,
is broadband, and has good gain. See http://www.dielectric.com/broadcast/brochures/TF-batwing.pdf for
a picture of one (NOTE: this is of course low VHF, and a transmitting
one, not receiving).

Except for WYZZ and WRSP, a four element should be fine.

Doug McDonald

I may have just got lucky, but I get good reception with 2 antennae connected with a simple splitter/joiner. It might be worth trying before doing something more complex.


Originally posted by jdmcdonald
To DavidL: the antenna web sites are basically useless.

Where you live you are unlikely to get reliable reception of
all networks with one antenna no matter where placed.

However, with one antenna at the far west end of the attic facing
west, and one at the far east end facing east, you will, though
a switch is needed. Winegard or ChannelMaster quad bowtie antennas
are appropriate. The Rario Shack double bowtie will probably work too.

This assumes that your house is at least as high as others around it.
If not, you may have to search for a good signal or mount a pair
of antennas back to back on the roof.

The problem is Fox and the eventual WEIU.

Doug McDonald GO ILLINI!

I am having problems with WICD 15-1 coming in here in northwest Champaign. Anyone else experiencing this?

Yesterday being a nice day, I paid a visit to the WEIU-DT new
tower site. Yikes those towers are close together!

The new tower is about half height, with the construction "pole"
still attached. Stuff is lying all around.

There is no sign of construction of a shack, or of power lines going to where
it would be, and the tower is of course still unpainted. So its still
a long way for fruition. Looks like WILL will likely win the race.

Doug McDonald

Does anyone live in Clinton and pull in 3-1? If so what are you using to get it?

Originally posted by jdmcdonald
Rotors are a PAIN if you are an aggressive commercial zapper.

Better a switch.


What is needed is a 4 or 6 or 8 element turnstyle (batwing) antenna ... looks
like the main, top, transmitting antenna of Channel 3, is omnidirectional,
is broadband, and has good gain. See http://www.dielectric.com/broadcast/brochures/TF-batwing.pdf for
a picture of one (NOTE: this is of course low VHF, and a transmitting
one, not receiving).

Except for WYZZ and WRSP, a four element should be fine.

Doug McDonald

Doug,

Does anyone actually make a consumer-reception antenna like this? I'm doing fine with a "leaky" VHF/UHF antenna pointed west (it's front-to-back rejection is relatively poor, so I also get WICD and WCCU this way), but this turnstile design would obviously be better and more convenient to use.

John C.

As far as I know, nobody makes a multiple element omnidirectional
antenna for reception. I find this very strange. It seems as if
they have the idea that "omni" means single element.

Doug McDonald

Anyone hear anything... Did WCIA have any fall-out over no HD for the Illini games?

What's a WCIA? :)

I've read most of this massive thread from the last year or so, but I still have some specific questions. Here is my situation:

I live in Urbana, right off Lincoln between Bradley and Fairview - one story house surrounded by other similar houses - nothing really big around. I just got a Sony KDF-42WE655 HDTV and have been trying to pick up HD signals with an indoor antenna. A radio-shack rotating amplified antenna only gave me the NBC feed, and a silver sensor picks up NBC and FOX, but I can't seem to find any other signals (ABC/CBS are the most important to me). I've tried pointing the antenna in various directions (ABC/CBS should be west). Surprisingly, I get the best reception of FOX/NBC pointing the antenna west (even those are east of me) - does this antenna actually "point" from the back, where the cable is connected?

Should I be getting better reception with the silver sensor? I'd be interested to here from others near me on the setup required to get all the networks. I don't mind putting up an outdoor antenna, but I don't want to buy more than I need - any specific recommendations, or a reference for a knowledgeable installer would be appreciated. Also, does insight cable offer the local HD channels without having to buy digital cable/HDTV pack? I just have the basic service now, but wouldn't mind paying a little more for local HD feeds.

Also, a programming question. My wife was able to watch American Idol last night and she said it was true HDTV (16x9, great picture ect.) so I know the TV is working properly. However, I've tuned into the Tonight Show for the last two nights and it doesn't seem to be in HD. The signal says it 1080i, DD, but the picture is still 4:3, and while it's clearer than my cable feed, it doesn't look like HD. Can anyone verify that WICD was trasmitting a HD signal for the last two nights? Would a reception problem lead me to see it in SD, even though an HD signal was present?

Sorry for all the questions, and thanks in advance for any answers received!

WICD-DT has a very poor track record for being able to pass through HD from NBC. I think I've not yet seen a complete West Wing in HD. I suspect last night was a bit more of a special situation with it being election day.
WAND-DT dropped back to a 4:3 image in the 720p signal when showing election returns. I did not watch WICD-DT last night but I've seen similar things when weather alerts come on from them. But apart from these situations where they need to super-impose info WICD-DT has done a really bad job of keeping HD come through. I've been meaning to call them about it.

Upgrades were performed on the WCCU-DT equipment today that may cause some receivers to not receive WCCU-DT until a rescan is performed. If you still have problems after a rescan let me know.

Originally posted by RidgeRider
I've read most of this massive thread from the last year or so, but I still have some specific questions. Here is my situation:

I live in Urbana, right off Lincoln between Bradley and Fairview - one story house surrounded by other similar houses - nothing really big around. I just got a Sony KDF-42WE655 HDTV and have been trying to pick up HD signals with an indoor antenna. A radio-shack rotating amplified antenna only gave me the NBC feed, and a silver sensor picks up NBC and FOX, but I can't seem to find any other signals (ABC/CBS are the most important to me). I've tried pointing the antenna in various directions (ABC/CBS should be west). Surprisingly, I get the best reception of FOX/NBC pointing the antenna west (even those are east of me) - does this antenna actually "point" from the back, where the cable is connected?

Should I be getting better reception with the silver sensor? I'd be interested to here from others near me on the setup required to get all the networks. I don't mind putting up an outdoor antenna, but I don't want to buy more than I need - any specific recommendations, or a reference for a knowledgeable installer would be appreciated. Also, does insight cable offer the local HD channels without having to buy digital cable/HDTV pack? I just have the basic service now, but wouldn't mind paying a little more for local HD feeds.


You probably don't want to hear this, but until our digital stations go to full power at maximum tower height, you'll likely need a better antenna, preferably mounted outdoors. Radio Shack sells an inexpensive UHF corner yagi antenna that is relatively compact. I used one of these, mounted to a short mast that itself was mounted on the eve of my house (in Savoy, off Wesley Avenue) to pull in the Fox station in Springfield before our local Fox station went HD. ABC, CBS and WB were no problem whatsoever, with signal strengths in the 80's and 90's on my ancient RCA DTC100 HD receiver. The only problem is that with our location, half of the digital stations require pointing an antenna due west, while the others are ENE and ESE, respectively. At one time, I put up two of these yagis, one pointed E and one pointed W, using a simple A/B video switch with F-connectors on it to switch between them for the relevant channels (FOX and NBC on the E antenna, CBS, ABC, WB on the W). Now I have a larger VHF/UHF antenna in my attic (also from RS - their smallest one) which is so badly designed that although I point it west, it also nicely picks up the signals from the east. Works great! (I never thought I'd be thankful for lousy engineering!).

Also, you should understand that our local CBS station does NOT broadcast in HD. They do have a digital signal up, but it is an SD signal only. A couple of months back, the local station manager, Russ Hamilton, said something on the WCIA Morning Show about converting to HD "late this year" but I wouldn't hold my breath. If you really want CBS-HD, the only way to do it right now is to subscribe to one of the satellite services (DISH or DirecTV) and after installation, call them up and tell them that you've moved to an address in south Chicago. That will make you eligible to receive a national CBS-HD signal, but this strategy has downsides (like not being able to have a service technician come to your "fake" address).

I don't think Insight carries the local affiliates' digital signals, but my info may be out of date.

John C.

I think Insight does carry WCCU (Fox) in HD, but no others yet.

If you sign up with Directv satellite service and give a bogus Chicago service address I think you can get all the networds feeds in HD via satellite, since all the network stations in Chicago are owned by the networks themselves and they've granted a blanket license to allow delivery of HD feeds into their markets, though the HD feeds themselves are from the New York City and LA stations.

A less devious way to get CBS-HD via satellite is to request WCIA grant you a waiver until they've completed their transition to HD.

Originally posted by mraub
I think Insight does carry WCCU (Fox) in HD, but no others yet.

If you sign up with Directv satellite service and give a bogus Chicago service address I think you can get all the networds feeds in HD via satellite, since all the network stations in Chicago are owned by the networks themselves and they've granted a blanket license to allow delivery of HD feeds into their markets, though the HD feeds themselves are from the New York City and LA stations.

A less devious way to get CBS-HD via satellite is to request WCIA grant you a waiver until they've completed their transition to HD.

Insight carries NBC, FOX, and PBS I believe. All in HD.

Those are just the local channels.

I'm waiting for ABC (which is available in HD in central illinois, and CBS (WCIA) which for some reason doesn't value HD even though their network does. I don't know how a station that has the Final Four and the Masters can not value HD.

Simple economics..the return on investment and additional cashflow generated is zero..

Originally posted by bdfox18doe
Simple economics..the return on investment and additional cashflow generated is zero..

Unless of course people like me stop watching in the case of WCIA or stop contributing in the case of WILL.

Thanks for the help. I'm going to try to RadioShack VU-75XR (15-2151) which goes for $39.99 mounted on my chimney. Do you think I need the rotator with this setup or should I just point it west and hope I can still get NBC/FOX? Do I need any kind of amp or is the antenna by itself worth trying first (about 50' of cable)?

Any reports of NBC high def recently. I'm stil trying to figure out if it's my TV. I tuned into Law and Order last night and the tonight show and both seemed to be in SD. Did anybody else watch last night in champaign/urbana and get a true HD 16:9 signal?

RidgeRider,

It's not your TV. It's a WICD-DT problem.

Someone needs to get a phone number for WICD's engineering office so they can be called to flip the $%%#%#$ switch when a HD broadcast come on.

Originally posted by dsinder
RidgeRider,

It's not your TV. It's a WICD-DT problem.

Originally posted by mraub
Someone needs to get a phone number for WICD's engineering office so they can be called to flip the $%%#%#$ switch when a HD broadcast come on.

I sent them email yesterday. No response yet.

Hey, fellow central Illinoisers (or whatever we are called)... sorry to somewhat butt into the conversation, but I've got a couple questions you might be able to help with.

I recently got an EDTV projector and am looking into getting some HD channels. I've currently got Insight digital cable, but the HD package seems very expensive compared to satellite. Any recommendations there? Is it true to get satellite you have to plug one receiver into a phone jack (hard to do if no TVs are by a phone jack).

Also, I've been reading quite a bit on the Silver Sensor. I am about 15 miles from FOX, but 35 miles from everything else. Plus, I'm about 1/2 mile from the Bloomington Airport. Would that antenna be strong enough pull in any OTA HD channels? Will it work with an HD receiver from Insight? Thanks to everyone for your help... I share in your pain of their not being better HD options in a seemingly large enough market.

Originally posted by RidgeRider
Thanks for the help. I'm going to try to RadioShack VU-75XR (15-2151) which goes for $39.99 mounted on my chimney. Do you think I need the rotator with this setup or should I just point it west and hope I can still get NBC/FOX? Do I need any kind of amp or is the antenna by itself worth trying first (about 50' of cable)?

Any reports of NBC high def recently. I'm stil trying to figure out if it's my TV. I tuned into Law and Order last night and the tonight show and both seemed to be in SD. Did anybody else watch last night in champaign/urbana and get a true HD 16:9 signal?

I'd first try just pointing it west and see how you do with Fox and NBC coming in through the back side. This is the same antenna I have mounted in my attic, pointed west, and I get Fox and NBC fine. If it doesn't work, get a rotor, or get a small UHF corner yagi or bowtie and point it west. You could then try using a simple splitter/combiner for the two antennas at the mast (giving you one coax into the house). This might not work because of multipath and cancellation effects between the antennas, but sometimes it does, and it sure beats having to mess with a rotor.

John C.

Originally posted by jholzbauer
Hey, fellow central Illinoisers (or whatever we are called)... sorry to somewhat butt into the conversation, but I've got a couple questions you might be able to help with.

I recently got an EDTV projector and am looking into getting some HD channels. I've currently got Insight digital cable, but the HD package seems very expensive compared to satellite. Any recommendations there? Is it true to get satellite you have to plug one receiver into a phone jack (hard to do if no TVs are by a phone jack).

Also, I've been reading quite a bit on the Silver Sensor. I am about 15 miles from FOX, but 35 miles from everything else. Plus, I'm about 1/2 mile from the Bloomington Airport. Would that antenna be strong enough pull in any OTA HD channels? Will it work with an HD receiver from Insight? Thanks to everyone for your help... I share in your pain of their not being better HD options in a seemingly large enough market.

I don't know about the Silver Sensor; in general, a good outdoor UHF corner yagi mounted outside as high as you can get it should pull in WAND, WBUI and WCIA from your location.

With respect to Insight vs. Satellite, you just need to do price and package comparisons. DirecTV charges $11/mth for their HD package, which is only 5 channels right now (ESPN, UniversalHD, DiscoveryHD, HDNet and HDNet Movies). I pay it because of ESPN which is doing more and more HD coverage; I rarely watch the other channels (but if you're a Law and Order fan, Universal HD would be heaven). Since I don't have either cable or DISH, I can't tell you what they offer. I can tell you that by fall, DirectTV should have several additional channels up as they will be launching two new satellites and moving their local channel service to those sats in HD (e.g., the Chicago market locals will be all in HD, and moved to one of the new satellites). These moves should free up some space on their current sats for additional national HD offerings, and rumor has it that D* has already signed contracts with TNT and ESPN2.

John C.

Originally posted by bdfox18doe
Simple economics..the return on investment and additional cashflow generated is zero..

I really hate to get back on my soapbox on this, but this is one of the problems with FCC policies regarding out-of-market signals. I can understand the desire to protect local markets when they are offering the same thing as distant signals. But if the FCC really cared at all about competition in media (which is the mantra we've heard for years from Mike Powell, and appears to be the same line taken by his successor), they would have a rule that at the very least would permit anyone in a market that is not served by an HD signal to get an out-of-market HD signal without a waiver from the local affiliate.

Such a rule would let the local affiliate gauge the true economic interest in HDTV and make investments accordingly. I don't have a problem with WCIA making a financial decision that HD isn't worth it, IF they make that decision on the basis of true market forces. Right now, the out-of-market rules insulate WCIA from market competition. Heck, why should they make the investment when we're all "captives" to them. On the other hand, if we could all buy an out-of-market CBS-HD signal, then WCIA could gauge true market demand for that service and make investments accordingly. They could get what they want, and the consumer could get what she wants, and at the point at which WCIA was losing enough customers to out-of-market HD to make it worthwhile, they'd invest in upgrading.

It really pisses me off that our current government keeps chanting "let the market work" in areas where market solutions are very difficult (e.g., broadband access) but then refuses to implement easy market solutions when a big lobbyist (the NAB) that also happens to control political commercial access decides they don't want market competition.

OK. Enough of the rant for the day.

John C.

If you don't buy pay-per-view offerings, the satellite companies don't seem to enforce the connect to telephone rule. I've never connected any of my DISH receivers to a phone line and that's never been a problem.

Originally posted by jholzbauer
Is it true to get satellite you have to plug one receiver into a phone jack (hard to do if no TVs are by a phone jack).

No signal this afternoon from WCIA. The pilot light they use to power their transmitter must have blown out from a gust of wind. :D

Newbie here. New TV comes Friday when I move to my new house in Sawgrass on the Very West side of Champaign. I'm getting the Sony KDF-60XS955 LCD 60 Incher with built in HD Tuner. I've read most of the posts and am planning the two yagi approach, one west and one east with an A/B Switch. Kind of a pain, but I guess it'll get me off the couch for a little bit. My main question is about Insight. I'm gonna try insight since I don't have to buy a HD DVR box, how is their Pic Quality on HD Package channels? I may switch to a dish eventually, but I'm not fond of buying a new DVR for a thousand bucks, especially since I just bought a Tivo DVD Recorder a few months ago. Now the Insight Guy said their box WILL record HD. Is that in fact true? I work for the railroad and am gone a lot during prime time shows, so a DVR is a MUST!

Another question, should I get a preamp? One or two, I mean it sounds like I can get away with the east facing antenna as is, but may need one for the west facer. Will the preamp go on the roof with the antenna? I hope not, I mean, running cable is bad enough, but a power line too? It's a new house and I really don't want to drill 15 holes in it. Also does anyone have any suggestions on what kind of cable to use, inside and outside. Thanks a lot.

Chuck

Chuck: try just the west antenna first if that's easier. You should be able to do everything except wccu-27 which is not needed since you should be able to get wrsp-fox from Springfield. My Yagi's are attic mounted so if you go outside you should do better.

On the preamp - it's pretty simple. The preamp itself is mounted at the antenna and simply connects to the antenna cable. The power adapter can be located at the tv or anywhere convenient (mine is in my crawl space). It requires normal 120V ac outlet and feeds the power to the preamp through the antenna cable.

If you do need the east yagi, you "should" be able to get away without a preamp. If you need one, first try a cheap $!0-$15 Magnavox from Menards (which has a poor signal/noise ratio). For the west antenna, I needed a good preamp and went with the $60 Channel Master from Lowes.

jtv

JTV: Thanks. Now, I know this has been covered in the antenna forum, but what are people using around here that I can find in the stores. I'm impatient and don't want to wait to order something online, find out it doesn't work, send it back, yada yada yada. What Yagi are people using? I don't see anything listed on Radio Shack's website.

Chuck

Here's a link to the little UHF yagi many are using:

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F001%5F002%5F000&product%5Fid=15%2D2160

It appears to be in stock at all local stores.


Originally posted by cagrigsby
JTV: Thanks. Now, I know this has been covered in the antenna forum, but what are people using around here that I can find in the stores. I'm impatient and don't want to wait to order something online, find out it doesn't work, send it back, yada yada yada. What Yagi are people using? I don't see anything listed on Radio Shack's website.

Chuck

As Mike noted, the antennas can be purchased from Radio Shack. Menards seemed to have the best deal on RG6 antenna cable, much cheaper than Radio Shack. Menards also has the rg6 couplers, stripping tool and crimping tool for assembling custom length cables. They had a cheap ($10-$15) amp which "might" work okay, but as noted above I bought the better quality $60 ChannelMaster preamp at Lowes. The $30 cigar shaped preamp sold at RadioShack is not particulary good.

jtv

Originally posted by cagrigsby
. I've read most of the posts and am planning the two yagi approach, one west and one east with an A/B Switch. Kind of a pain, but I guess it'll get me off the couch for a little bit.
Chuck

Check out this A/B switch and then you won't have to get off the couch. A friend of mine told me about it. It works great!

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F010%5F011%5F000&product%5Fid=15%2D1968&site=search

Thanks for the advice so far. Just a few more questions. First does anyone have Insight currently and would they comment on their service, especially the DVR box.

And also, do most of you with outdoor installs use a tower, roof mounts, side of house mounts? Any additional supports? Thanks.

Chuck

I looked into pre-amps and attics and everything else and just decided I would be better off paying the cable company a little extra and getting the DVR box.

The HD package is good but not great. I watch ESPNHD, but not all of the programs on there are in HD. I watch a lot of the Discovery HD channel, and that is great. They also give you Fox in HD, and that is great. I don't really care about Nascar that much, but it looks pretty darn good in HD.

The package in Champaign/Urbana currently does not include any local channels in HD other than Fox. This sucks, but I never have to deal with moving antennas or losing signal or any of the other patience-testers in getting HD off the air. I think the majority on this forum has a general dislike for Insight's offerings, but it works for me.

The DVR box works great, too. It will record in whatever format the program originally plays in. HD shows will record as HD and SD shows record as SD. One word of caution - standard cable looks like crap if you run it through the box. I split my cable at the wall and run one into the TV and the other into the box. This way, the analog channels look fine and the HD stuff can come through the box.

Hope that helps.
Joe

Hey Everyone,

I've been reading this forum a while and I figured i'd post my set up in case it would help someone else down the line.

I live near prospect & green in champaign. I'm getting wcia, wicd, wccu, wand, and wbui all in digital with a Winegard GS2000 mounted on a 5 foot mast atop my two story house. It took a bit to get the antenna aimed to get all the stations at once, but it works great now. I had an installer from good vibes help me with the installation.

I've also had dish network with thier hd package for about 1 year now. Before the ncaa tourney I called them and "moved" to a friends address in chicago to get dish networks cbs-hd feed out of new york. This setup allows me to get all the networks in hd except for wb and upn.