WBUI, our WB station appeared on Ch. 22 last night. It came
in barely with the antenna where it was. Moving it up 5 inches
or adding the preamp back in and it is very solid.

They are scaling their SD somewhat wrong ... some sort of
digital vertical interval stuff appears at the top unless I scroll
it all the way up, and there is a gap at the bottom with a black bar.
Also, it's skewed to the right about the width of their bug.

I visited the CC (in Champaign) last night to purchase a telephone so I could call and congratulate them from home (I've never before
owned a touchtone phone at home.) While there I saw a GWII
(see thread at proper place) and played with their OTA DTV
setup. This is some sort of Zenith STB.


As set up, it only received WCIA. But if I set the Silver Sensor
on the phone box, it readily got WCIA, WAND, and WBUI. Still
no trace of WICD, which is not unexpected considering the
store layout.

Doug McDonald

Hi Doug,

I recently learned of the dtv stations in the area from a few of your earlier posts. I am assembling my equipment to be able to get dtv, hopefully by the end of the year. Right now I have a dish 6000 that I need to purchase the ota module for. I live in the Homer Lake area and have an omni-directional antenna from radio shack in my 2nd story attic. Do you think that will pull these dtv channels in? What type of setup and equipment do you have? I realize these channels are all SD but I'm still excited about the new technology.

Are you the one that posted about WAND having their HD equip. on order?
If so, any more word on that?

Thanks, John

You have a problem, namely, the analog signal of WICD-15
being so close to it.

I've got a Samsung STB and a Radio Shack double bowtie antenna
with the screen taken off (making it a bidirectional antenna). The
antenna sits in the middle of my picture window on the second floor.
I live near the Assembly Hall.

I get WICD-DT (Ch 41) through two walls and it is a bit weak. The
others are strong.

You will be able to get all our channels, since WAND and WBUI
are half power as will be WCCU if they ever actually get on.
WCIA and WICD are low power, but WCIA is at full antenna
height and you will be able to get it if you try.

All you can do is try. You may need an outdoor antenna to get WCIA,
which is Ch. 48 and therefore a bit close in frequency to WICD (41)
which is blasting away behind you, so close in frequency.

You may also need an outdoor antenna to get WAND and WBUI
due only to overload from the analog WICD being so powerful and
so close.

Whatever you do, be careful not to use a cheapie amplifier in your line
without buying an expensive filter to kill WICD-15. Put your
effort in a better antenna if you have WICD troubles.

I live right next to WHMS-FM and have a terrible time with
overload from it. The best solution if you have trouble is an
outdoor antenna with a very high F/B ratio . I do assume you are
west of WICD. If somebody were a couple of miles east of it,
they will be paying big bucks to Blonder-Tongue for CATV grade
filters.



Doug

Doug,

Yes, I live west of the WICD tower, probably about 5 miles. What is F/B ratio in terms of an antenna? I didn't realize that the digital signal from WICD would interfer with the others. The analog signal doesn't seem to,do you know why there is a difference?


Thanks for all your help.

John

With a good quality setup there should not be a problem, I have had problems trying to recieve a distant station shooting through a close adjacent local but not 2 or three channels away, I would get a decent directional antenna with a rotor and a high quality mast mounted preamp for those low power digitals.

5 miles from WICD is plenty to avoid disaster but still he should
avoid an amplifier of possible. There is absolutely no need
for a rotor ... just point a big UHF antenna west.

Just be sure WICD and WCCU are not in super deep nulls, a couple
of degrees rotation will fix any problem without bothering the
weaker stations to the west.

A rabbit ears will probably get WILL-DT, Ch. 9 just fine, if not
a small high VHF antenna will do it, and he can use a VHF-UHF
combiner in the downlead.

Doug

Anyone in Bloomington having any luck with HDTV? I have Dish Network and was thinking about upgrading to their HDTV receiver to get more use out of my outdoor UHF antenna. Just ordered a front projector and curious if anything is available OTA.


Donnie

I live in Danville and I can't seem to be able to get any consistant signal from any of the DTV stations in the area however in the evenings I can usually pick up the Indy DTV stations which are actually further away. Is this because of the power the cent. Ill. stations are broadcasting or could it be caused by the fact that the WAND repeater (Ch-31) is located less than 1 mile to the rear of my antenna when pointing westward.

Bloomington should be able to get PBS 46.3 peoria, WYZZ fox digital 28 is claimng to be on the air but I know of no-one that can recieve them, they are supposed to raise their antenna 180 more feet very soon, then you may have a shot, but they are owned by Sinclair so you can look forward to the trademark low power crappy upconvert and no passing of network signal that is making Sinclair infamous in the digital broadcast world.

I live in the Arbour Meadows subdivision in Savoy, and I get the following with a Radio Shack VHF/UHF antenna pointed east, using a Channel Master preamp. The signal strengths are readings from my RCA DTC100:

WCIA (CBS 48-2): 94 Full-time.

WCFN (UPN 48-3): 94 full time.

WICD (NBC 41): 84 full time (note that this signal is coming from the back end of my antenna, which indicates that the RS antenna I'm using has poor F/B rejection, but in this situation, that works to my benefit!).

WAND (ABC 18): 65, on during prime-time only (7:00 - 10:00 p.m.)

WBUI (WB 22): 48-50 full time. As of 12/1, they were having audio problems - getting only the right channel from them.

Still nothing from Fox (WCCU).

John Colombo

Originally posted by jdcolombo
I live in the Arbour Meadows subdivision in Savoy, and I get the following with a Radio Shack VHF/UHF antenna pointed east,

WICD (NBC 41): 84 full time (note that this signal is coming from the back end of my antenna,

John Colombo

Uh, WICD is east of you. the rest are west. I think you mean
the antenna points west.

Doug McDonald

Danville should get a big signal from WICD. I predicted that the
guy in Homer would be able to get all of them with a bit of work.
Danville however I'm not so sure about.

IF a Danvillite can get any but WICD (and WCCU when they appear)
it will be with a big antenna well above the roof. WBUI and
WAND should be about the same as a half-power station
from Terre Haute.

Doug McDonald

Originally posted by jdmcdonald
Uh, WICD is east of you. the rest are west. I think you mean
the antenna points west.

Doug McDonald

Uh - Yep. Got my directions mixed up. Antenna points west, gettin WICD from east (back side of antenna).

Also, I probably should add that this antenna was RS's "medium" range antenna and is in the attic of my two-story house. It probably sits about 20' above ground level. I don't get anything digital from Springfield (e.g., WICS) or Peoria. Wonder if a 100' tower would fit in my back yard . . . :D

John C.

Originally posted by jdmcdonald


IF a Danvillite can get any but WICD (and WCCU when they appear)
it will be with a big antenna well above the roof. WBUI and
WAND should be about the same as a half-power station
from Terre Haute.

Doug McDonald

I'm just puzzled Doug, why I get good signals from Indy (80-85 miles away) but almost nothing to the west. Could the WAND repeater be interfering with my DTV reception to the west? It sits less than a mile to my NE and I rotate my RS-210 (big sucker) to appr. 265 degrees to get my best readings for Wcia-dt, Wbui-dt, Wand-dt, Wi(cd-dt. All 4 register only a 9-12 on my Hughes HD receiver while I can pick up WRTV Indy (25-1) at 30-50 during daytime and 50-80 in evenings. Is there a way to block out the signal from behind the antenna?

DL Clark, I live in Normal, and get 46.3 out of peoria clearly.
I also get channel 3 analog clear from Champaign with my attic mounted antenna pointed to Peoria. Should I be able to recieve the Champaign HD channels clearly?

Can anyone tell me what F/B means in reguards to antennas?

Thanks for all the info. guys.

John

Originally posted by Millsjr
Can anyone tell me what F/B means in reguards to antennas?

Thanks for all the info. guys.

John

It stands for Front to Back gain. Probably along with heighth one of the 2 most important feature needed to obtain good signals from a distance. The more the better!!!

edster,
have you tried to recieve the digital channel 28 signal at very low power from Fox WYZZ yet?

Dear rrrick in danville:


I don't understand why WRTV is so good. I could get it here
in Champaign, 40 miles to the west of you, from when
I got my box in August to late October. They are 5 times
the power of WBUI and WAND, but on a much lower tower.
Maybe it has something to do with the low land in the Wabash
valley.

Nevertheless, you should get a very respectable signal from
WICD. They are at low power (a couple kw) and low height, but I get them
just fine here in Champaign on a trivial bowtie antenna indoors.

WCIA is the same power as WICD but two or three times the height.
WAND and WBUI are much heigher than WICD or even WCIA and
are at half power (200 kW).

One mile from a repeater and off the back of a big antenna
should not be a big problem. Besides its not off the back
when you point to WRTV.

Can you get the other UHF DTV channels from Indy? In August I
could occasionally get ch. 45 and 46, even though there is
a low power ch. 46 analog two miles from me. This, however,
was with a huge single channel Yagi with a huge F/B ratio.

I have a Samsung receiver so I cannot compare signal readings
with you.

Are you using a preamp? It may help if you get a really good
one with good overload properties.

Doug

Originally posted by jdmcdonald


Are you using a preamp? It may help if you get a really good
one with good overload properties.

Doug

Doug,
With my RS-210 antennae I use a CM 7778 preamp on top my 1 1/2 story home, mounted on a 15' mast above the roof.
Yes, Sometimes I can get other Indy stations at night CBS-9.1, NBC-13.1, Fox-59.1 signal strength varies widely on different nights though.
Do you know of any professional antenna installers in the central Illinois area?
Rick

Hi Central Illinois folks....

I should have my Samsung 160 hooked to my Hitachi 57 SWX tomorrow... So I will be trying antennas to see what I can get OTA.

I am in Mahomet... About 8 miles west of Champaign.

What formats are the OTA DTV stations sending? I gather none are passing HDTV signals. Are they 480P? How does the picture look when it is working? Is it better than standard NTSC (analog)??

After a while, I will report what I find.

Regards,
David

It's good to know there are people in Central, IL wanting HDTV. I can't justify upgrading if PBS is all I can get. It sounds like the Champaign area is the place to be. What really bugs me is, since I dropped cable, I can't get UPN which is broadcast on analog channel 59. I may need to upgrade to VHF so I can get channel 3. No Illini games and I couldn't watch the high school state football playoffs. 31 really pisses me off as they broadcast infomercials while channel 3 is broadcasting sports on the weekends.

According to antennaweb it looks like things will improve in May of 2003 with most of the peoria stations going digital. I just hope this holds true and the FCC makes them comply.

On one hand, I'm glad I didn't invest in HDTV a few years back when I wanted to. On the other hand, now that I'm getting one all I can watch is a few HDTV satellite channels and PBS. I wish there was a way to get HDTV networks via dish since it's not available locally.

Donnie

rrrick8 ....

strange

That's a good antenna setup.

But if it does not get WICD-DT ch 41, something is wrong.
Perhaps overload from WICD-15. You do of course have
the FM trap active in your preamp? If there is a
nearby full power FM it could be the problem.

I suggest trying to find a Radio Shack double bowtie
antenna. They are discontinued but if you find one they
are $5. Try it indoors and see what you see. Then try outdoors
if you can, or on the second floor.

If you get the same reading for all four westerly DTV stations,
that alone says something is wrong. WICD should be by far the
strongest, low antenna altitude or not.

You might also consider trying to remove the amplifier for a test.

Doug McDonald

dlclark:

You should, possibly, be able to get WAND-17 (ABC),
WBUI-22 (WB), WILL-9 (when it comes on) and
WCIA-48 (CBS and UPN ... both)

They are all 33-38 miles away. I get 17 and 22 strongly
with an indoor antenna at that distance. WCIA may need
a big antenna.

Get a Samsung T-151 from Best Buy and try it. You can always
take it back. Also get from them a cheap Recoton signal
amplifier and try adding it into the antenna line.

Doug McDonald

Doug, are you in the Champaigm area? I had my satellite installer put up a UHF antenna and it's pointed towards Peoria. Everything over there comes in great but I can barely get 17 and 22, they are unwatchable. I hate to sacfrifice getting those Peoria stations to add WB and I already get ABC fine. I have a Radio Shack double bow tie that I use to extend the UHF remote on Dish Network. I pointed it towards Decatur and it can get 22 and 17 a little better, but still not watchable.

I am on the North side of Normal and the antenna is on top of my two-story house.

Thanks, Donnie

Just got on the rooftop and can get 17 and 22 fine, pointed towards Decatur, but I do lose all Peoria stations. Pointed to Decatur also gets me the Springfield networks, except there is no CBS. I have a Winegard PR-8800 UHF. It looks like in order to watch Illini games, I will need to upgrade to VHF as well so I can get channel 3. I could not get UPN channel 59 at all, they also carry Illini games.

Sorry, this is turning into non HDTV talk for me. I am looking forward to stations upgrading to digital. It looks like Peoria will have plenty if Antennaweb is correct.

Donnie

dclark,
I have to ask, can you receive the fabled WYZZ FOX 28 digital signal, they claim they are covering their city of license which is Bloomington.

I won't have my HDTV receiver until next month. I can tell you that we tried at my uncle's house with the Radio Shack double bow tie and could not get it. He has an RCA DTC-100 receiver and he lives appx 5 miles from the transmitter.

Donnie

Does he live near congerville?

Just outside Bloomington on the West side.

dynamohum1

I checked last night and I can receive channel 28-2, fox from bloomington, I have an antenna in my attic and it is pointed to peoria so that may be a part of the problem. I only recieved it with a strenth of 34, and it was having problems with pixilization. I also checked and could not recieve any of the champaign digital staions. I may go up into the attic and adjust the antenna, and point it to champaign but that will not be until this weekend.

So there is a signal, I cannot get 1 blip on my meter 22 miles away pointed right at the transmitter, they are at 120 feet and are supposed to raise the antenna to 300 feet very soon so maybe then. I would suggest a rotor in your location, with all of your directional options.

To Bloomington people: you may be able to get CBS and UPN
from Champaign WCIA on digital channel 48. They are at full
height but very low power. All you can do is try. Somebody with
a roof antenna should borrow a digital STB and try it.

Remember that WAND will be the first Champaign/Decatur station to get HDTV. You may want to be prepared to get them if they get going
before the Super Bowl.

Doug McDonald


Doug McDonald

While I would love to try a rotor, my Homeowners association does not allow for outdoor antennas, hence the attic mount of the antenna. My attic is full of rafters and re aiming the antenna is a pain which is why I will not be able to give it a try until the weekend. I did try removing the antenna coax from the antenna A input on my dtc100 and using a handheld rabbit ears, but did not get any signal then. I may try that with the Champaign stations (48) this weekend. I will let you know.

Originally posted by edster67
While I would love to try a rotor, my Homeowners association does not allow for outdoor antennas, hence the attic mount of the antenna. My attic is full of rafters and re aiming the antenna is a pain which is why I will not be able to give it a try until the weekend. I did try removing the antenna coax from the antenna A input on my dtc100 and using a handheld rabbit ears, but did not get any signal then. I may try that with the Champaign stations (48) this weekend. I will let you know.

Actually, your homeowners association cannot legally prohibit a rooftop TV reception antenna; FCC rules pre-empt restrictive covenants against outdoor TV reception antennas (and dishes less than 1 meter in diameter). So if you wanted to put up an outside antenna, you could do so (though you'd have to be prepared for a long educational session with your HOA; some folks just don't want to believe what they read).

John C.

Hi,

Just a little update from Mahomet.
I now have my dish and T-160 hooked up to my Hitachi.

Right now, my set top indoor antenna (hoop and rabbit ears) is pulling in a good signal and pictures of 17-1 WANDDT and 3-1 WCIADT (I am guessing they are SD 480p 4x3 (possibly and upconvert??).
I would rate the picture at the moment as better than most analog or D** pictures, but probably not as good as dvd.
I am using the Samsung t-160. I must say that HBO HD and HDNET on d** look awesome. I hope we get some OTA HD before too long!

I am going to try some of the other channels mentioned now, and will probably get a UHF Radio Shack antenna to play with.... After that, I guess I will choose an outdoor antenna. Are there any special ones for this area?

Dave

Isn't ABC carrying the Super Bowl this year? If so, does anyone know if WAND will be broadcasting it.

My projector will be here in three weeks and I might buy an HDTV receiver, only to return it after the event. I have Dish Network and am waiting on their new HDTV receiver with built-in PVR.

I just visited WAND's site and there is an engineering note that they will be broadcasting in 720P by the end of the month. Looks like power is only at 350KW so it may be a waste of time for me.

Donnie

Does WAND pass any HD now? As for antenna choices I am in Peoria and I use a Televes DAT75 with very good results and I will be watching the Superbowl on WQAD from 60+ miles with perfect reception. For those interested, the Antenna and Tower crew arrived yesterday ant KWQC NBC's tower to install a shared antenna for the FOX and NBC affiliates in the quad cities. The Tower is in the same location as WQAD and both stations will start with at least 500,000 watts and the ability to pass network digital at HD/SD or whatever is sent to them. If you are pointing to the northwest WQAD is on 38.1 .2 .3 and NBC will be 56 FOX on 49 .
edited to add this link http://www.kwqc.com/Global/category.asp?C=35186

WAND will have the super bowl. Hopefully they will have HDTV
going in time for it.

350 kW is half power for them and is plenty at your distance.
You may be able to get them with an indoor antenna. I do at only
a couple of miles closer than you. They've got a big
tall tower.

Doug McDonald

Hi,

Well, That is good news on the Superbowl and WAND (17-1)... It would be great if they are passing HD soon. I get them solid right now on SD.... I must say that the picture quality of WAND in SD is only so so at the moment.

but as noted above, per their web page "We are scheduled to begin HDTV Broadcasting 720P before the end of the month."


Surprising to me, WBUI-DT on 23-1 (WB network) appears to have an Excellent SD picture with great 'presence'. It looks like downresed HD, and this is the station I get the weakest signal on. This one shows up as under review on Titan, but I seem to get it every time I check.

I am also getting 3-1 which seems to alternate between CBS (WCIADT) and UPN (if I remember right). It looks pretty good.

I cannot find a trace of these three which Titan TV shows (with my indoor antenna). Can anyone confirm if they are on the air? I am considering which outdoor or attic UHF antenna I should try (if there are channels to go after).
43-1 WYZZDT Fox (ch. 28) (per Titan) but 28-1 or -2 per this thread.
15-1 WICDDT NBC (ch. 41)
20-1 WICSDT NBC (ch. 42)
also cannot find WRSPDT ch 44? Fox

If anyone has more info on who is up, please share!

Regards,
David
I edited this a bit to make it more complete....

WYZZ-DT is on 28.1 or.2 but the antenna is at 120feet and they are at 500watts so unless you are within 5-10 miles of the transmitter you will be out of luck, and since they are owned by Sinclair they are choosing to not pass the FOX network DT feed.

WICS-DT Channel 42 (20.1) is on the air. However, they are broadcasting at extremely low power. I get them sometimes in the morning, and occasionally in the evening.

Dyno,

Since I seem to be the only one recieveing the fox 28-1 signal I will confirm that the programming is just the same as their analog, converted to digital, with no HD that I have seen.
You seem to be pretty down on Sinclair. Would it do any good to let them know that at least some of us are watching and would like to receive the FOX HD feeds, or is it alreaday a lost battle?
I also checked last night and could not get the WAND digital signal. I do get their analog signal so I will keep trying and let you know when I can recieve it.

I have called sinclair and got as far as getting them to raise the antenna, the FCC had to be contacted as well, to the height they were approved at around 300 feet. This is just to receive the signal, as far as getting the feed from FOX I do not think they are willing to spend any more than they have to to keep the FCC off their backs.

WICD is on all day, on channel 41. They are at low height and power.
I get them fine in Champaign, but much farther west than here is
going to get iffy very quick.

WRSP/WCCU are trying to delay as much as possible.

WCCU's construction permit has EXPIRED. They no longer have
a construction permit.

They do have a Special Temporary Authority to transmit at
half power, which they are not using.

The word for this is "default". We shall see, probably soon, whether
the FCC simply caves in and extends the construction permit
deadline, or whether they start imposing penalites. Given that
people have reported that they already have much equipment,
and that they are apparently not claiming technical hurdles
(they claim "financial" which means we can't read the claims)
we may very well see something interesting happen soon.

Given that they have by far the worst of all the analog pictures
I get, I would dearly love to get them digital. At their distance from me
and height, it's good that they can't go to the very low
powers of WCIA and WICD. OF course Fox doesn't do HDTV, but
these bozos will clearly not pass through Fox's 480p.

Doug McDonald

I was told by a gentleman at the FCC that they will not bother the station during the STA time period but that if after the 6 months if they have been dark and are not transmitting they can lose their digital spectrum and that the penalty will be much more severe than a missed deadline for a cp, the station has told the FCC that they are ready to broadcast with the equipment and power specified in the STA if they do not go on the air they have not just missed a deadline due to reasons beyond their control, they have deliberately deceived the FCC.

I use a d** reciever to tune DTV. Sadly... if the Samsung does not have the DTV station downloaded in the guide, it tends to end up looking for a sattelite channel when you type in 15-1 for instance.
Does anyone know what triggers Direct T* to add DTV channels to the list under the local zip code? It sure would be easier to play with the antenna to find the channels (15-1,20-1, etc) if the box would keep looking for it. Does anyone have any experience with this issue?
I know the channels are weak, but it sounds like I ought to have a shot at 15-1 (WICD CH 41) for instance.

Oh well, at least we have some activity going on.
Have Fun, and it is nice to see all this info pooled.
David

Titan this morning shows WCCU coming January 1st.
Not going to hold my breath, but we can always hope that it is correct.

WCCU has everything installed and tested and ready they just do not turn it on, they are ready with full power and all the equipment is there, they say they are waiting for corporate to tell them to run the digital station... maybe everyone should call the corporate office and ask when why ect. Seems a shame, with all the other stations not on the air with no equipment installed and here is one with everything in place and they refuse to turn it on.

Anyone in central Illinois know a good antenna installation / repair company. Seriously, who installed your OTA ?
I'm tired of messing with mine. I installed it myself in April and everything worked fine until WICD DT-41 went on line. Now I get no signal or extremely weak one from any and all DT stations to the west of Danville. At night I can rotate it toward Indy and pick up 3 to 4 stations when conditions are favorable.
This antenna is a bear to handle- super large RS-210 on a 15 mast on top of the roof. It's all I can do to take it down, tweak it, then put it back up.
Today I took it down, flip the switch on the amp filter, put it back up and it was worse than before. couldn't even get analog channels without interference. So I was able to tape a small screwdriver to a board and extend it up and flip the switch back so that I at least get analog again.
Anyway as I said before I need a professional, any recommendations?

Home theater concepts in Morton Illinois is the only one I know of near here.

I think you (rrick8) need a different or no amplifier.

You might try running good RG6 from the antenna down
at least to the base of the tower or if its say 25 feet or less,
into the house, so you can experiment with no or different amplifiers.

A UHF only amplifer or a filter in front of the amplifier can work wonders,
if you have a nearby FM station.

A big antenna can't hurt ... unless it overloads something.

Doug

Doug McDonald

Hi Everyone,

Just wanted to pass on that titantv.com appears to have done a significant update to the dtv channels they list in the last couple of days.
I am thinking that 48 (49-1) really should be UPN, Not the CBS they show currently. (CBS is 48 (3-1) mapped).
Anyway, when I watch 3-1 on my samsung, it seems to alterate between feeds of UPN and CBS. I figure they are just testing stuff. 49-1 only popped up once for me so far.

Regards,
David

Heh all... just a note from your St. Louis friends:

As of tonight at 7pm Central KDNL (ABC) in St. Louis began passing through High Definition. The station is at full power from what I am aware of - so it should theoretically be possible to pick it up depending on where you are at. If WAND doesn't get their equipment to passthru this is an option for you to try and get the SuperBowl in Hd.

Chris

Just an update on WBUI-DT (23-1 Decatur) -- the audio problem has been resolved. Previously, audio was only coming out of the right channel. Then, the other day, they went off the air for a little bit. When they came back on, the sound was working properly.

I'm glad to see them up and running. As was mentioned earlier, their picture quality is very good -- better than most other stations' digital offerings in this area.

WCIA should work properly on Samsungs now (150 - 151 -165, the 160 is under control of dark forces). You perhaps should try
(I know, it can cause problems) removing the antenna, doing a channel scan, pointing antenna correct direction, reconnecting it, and pushing in 48. When I do that, 3-1 appears on the screen, and if I push in 49, I get 49-1.

They are not alternating, there really is a 3-1 and a 49-1.

Doug McDonald

Doug;
Remember, WCIA is also broadcasting the same streams on channel 53 in Springfield, and that may be a easier signal for those west of Champaign to pick up.

Both sites have been updated; however the Springfield update now seems to have broken Dish 6000 recievers over there.

WCIA is looking for the solution for *that* problem.

CheapEngineer

Hi Doug,

Thanks for the tips. I tried your techniques, but it would not work for me. I have disconnected the cable and satelitte, then the antenna... scanned for "no" channels, then typed in the numbers as you indicate.... Then scanned for digital OTA stations.... I still alternate between 3 and 49.
I have not confirmed, but I think if I use the methods above (with 'no dish'), I ussually get CBS on 48 and 3-1. If I get the D** satellite guide of stations, I think I ussuually get UPN on 3-1.
Lately, I have not go anything on 49 or 49-1 (Are you using a t-160 to test this?). On 49-1 I get a searching for signal. I have not tried a Full 'REBOOT'
Any more ideas on what to try? When I get them, they both have good pictures.
Is it correct to say that both of these stations are:
-on the same frequency (UHF 48)?
-on the same physical antenna?
-on the same RF carrier?
-simply 'mapped' to other designations 3-1 and 49-1

With no guide and no 'smarts', how would you get to 49-1, if 48 goes to 3-1??

Thanks for any tips!
David

migman .... I was referring to the Samsung 150-151-165 boxes
which are OTA only.

As I said, the 160 is a DirectTV box and under the control of
dark forces, that is, Direct TV. The only people that can help
you if you have a Direct TV box are from DirectTV.

Doug McDonald

OUCH!

If you have any 'knowledgeable' contacts... Maybe you could PM them to me?

I don't like the dark forces.....

David

I checked a little more.. I am pretty sure....
If the last thing I did was an OTA digital channels scan, I get CBS on 3-1.
If it was downloading the program guide, I get UPN on 3-1.

When allowed to tune UHF 48, I get the same thing as above.... mapped to 3-1

Lately, I always get searching for signal on 49-1, and I can find no way to force it to find both channels at once.... Looks like I will be trying to contact Direc* TV.

Thanks for the clues,
David

This sounds like DirectTV is out of sync with reality.

Doug McDonald

And the samsung t160 seems incapable of tuning/finding the OTA channels if used as and OTA only box.

D

WAND apparently is now 720p. They appeared last night with 17-1 and
17-2. 17-1 says"HD" and 17-2, which was a blank screen, says "SD".

On 17-1 some upconverted commercials sure did look sharper than
they were. We will not get any HD until Drew Carey tomorrow.

Doug McDonald

Just curious... Where Did it say 'HD' I noted the two channels same as you did, and 17.1 looked like a 16X9 upconvert stretch.... I thought I remember DT and SD, but not HD....

Thanks for the note.
David

I have a Samsung T-151. If you press "info" it says "HD" or "SD".
It does not distinguish forms of HD, and I do not know if it
calls 480p HD. But since they bought a 720p encoder .....

Doug

Double post due to computer crash.

Johnny Nash said it all.

Thanks to jdmcdonald, dynamohum1, and any others who tried to help me with my reception problems. I was finally able to correct my WCID overload problem with the help of Dave Strabala from Winegard tech support. A simple $9 part from radio shack called a variable attenuator has given my reception the equivalant of rocket fuel. All channels are coming in with no drop outs. Thanks again, and i highly recommend Winegard. Their support was fast and right on target. I don't plan on disappearing from the forum. I will stillpost reports from the Danville area.
:D :D :D

Drew Carew was not in HD on WAND last night. The STB said it was HD,
but it must have been an analog SD upconvert.

They must not be ready yet.

Doug McDonald

Well, last night, Sunday the 22nd, they were on in HD. The stupid
(really stupid) Santa movie was on in HD, as were the other two
programs. None of these are the best to show off HDTV, since
they are either "movies" or TV shows shot at a somewhat dark
level with a very narrow depth of field, for a "film look", so
often the only part of the picture in focus is the actor's eyes.
The long shots on "Alias" and "The Practice" were however excellent.
To see the best in HDTV that ABC offers, you should see the
sitcoms.

Congratulations to WAND.

And a big fat Bronx Cheer to WCIA and a smaller one to WICD
for not getting HDTV.

Doug McDonald

My rotor is on the fritz, but I am getting nervous about KDNL-DT in St. Louis being ready for the Super Bowl. They are having equipment problems and aren't passing 5.1 yet. Alias was the last thing I watched on KDNL last night, but the engineer posted today saying after 9PM they had to switch to upconvert because of audio problems.

Is WAND-DT doing DD5.1?

Hi Jim,

I agree with your comments. I was able to catch most of the Practice on WAND, and it was definately HD. It was the first time I have seen 720p. I am glad to see WAND making progress and bringing us some OTA HD.

I need to look into Fox and NBC again to see if either of them have a signal worth going after.

I get ABC, CBS, and WB (and UPN when I "switch" from CBS) with rabbit ears and a little hoop on the set top.

David

migman,

Have you gotten anywhere with Samsung on the TS160 OTA tuning issues? My frustration with some known glitches in this box remains at a high level, but unfortunately I'm stuck with it now and the alternatives won't be out for months anyway.

I called Samsung support yesterday and again mentioned OTA issues and I might as well have been talking to a wall.

Anyone: Is WAND-DT passing DD5.1? With the holidays I don't know when I will be able to catch an actual 5.1 program on ABC. I'm anxious to know . . . KDNL-DT out of St. Louis is projecting mid-January for passthru. That's a little too close to the Super Bowl.

Actually having a network stream that is DD5.1 would help with some troubleshooting I am attempting on this box that is having problems sending the correct stream (PCM/DD2.0/DD5.1) as well.

I was watching WAND 17-1 on my Sony 53xbr300 and Dish 6000 and was having a problem with a thin grayish line that was unstable across the very top of the picture and immediately below the black bar. Also the picture seemed compressed as the football players looking squatty or squished. I tried switching to the s-video input through regular satellite rather than HD and there was no line but still had the squeeze appearance. What am I doing wrong. Also it seems like I fixed this picture location problem once before on a Showtime HD movie but for the life of me I can't remember if it was within the 6000 menu or the TV. Help anyone. By the way I am about 40 miles from the Wand tower and the picture clarity is simply fabulous. Thanks

Nothing is wrong .... The football game was in SD ... you need pillar
bars.

Do you have any problem receiving the football game on Monday?
I kept getting terrible pixelization, which I've never seen before on them
and which was not on Ch. 22, whose tower is nearby.

Doug McDonald

Originally posted by jdmcdonald


Do you have any problem receiving the football game on Monday?
I kept getting terrible pixelization, which I've never seen before on them
and which was not on Ch. 22, whose tower is nearby.

Doug McDonald

Yep. I had the same problem. Signal strength was fine, but the picture suffered so badly from dropouts and pixelization that I ended up watching it via StarChoice.

The HD channel was off the air around 7:15, so I'm hoping they were just having a transmitter or encoder problem that they didn't quite get fixed before the football game.

All of us who participate in this thread should send a note of thank-you to the WAND engineering staff and publicize WAND's HD commitment. Maybe eventually WCIA will bend to market pressure and start passing CBS's HD.

John C.

I thought so and the chief engineer
knew there were problems with the encoder. But he didn't know about these breakups. There is no proof that the encoder was causing the problems ... it could be the STL or less likely the satellite
downlink. But I told him I thought there was a breakup problem and
would ask here and call back if it was just my setup. Obviously
it was not.

Call WCIA and bitch at the station manager. It will do no good,
but nevertheless is fun and if we annoy him enough he might mention
it to management.

Doug


Doug

WAND still is not working right. Something is sick .... they were
transmitting an upconverted SD last (Tuesday) night. They were playing
around at times.

Doug

This is getting strange. WAND is on this afternoon (Christmas present
to people with new HDTVS?) and George Lopez was on in
perfect HDTV.

Doug McDonald

The last time I was in contact with a WAND engineer (which was a few months ago via e-mail), he indicated that WAND-DT would broadcast during prime time until next April, and then full time after that. But, he also stated that they planned to pass all ABC HDTV programming, even if it was outside of prime-time hours. That would explain why George Lopez was on this afternoon.

Turls,

No, I haven't got anywhere with the OTA... The problem I have is pretty much getting 49-1 and 3-1 to both be available. I have been busy doing Holiday stuff. No word from the E-mails to tech support. At the moment, I am not Dolby Digital capable.

David

Did anyone else notice serious breakups on Mrs. Doubtfire during the
8-9 hour which stopped totally after 9? Is it me or is it them?
I'm especially interested in people not in CU.

JDcolombo ... did you watch it?

Doug McDonald

I experienced the breakups as well (just outside of Springfield IL). I hope WAND is able to figure out what's causing this before the SuperBowl... :)

Please, Chilli_Dog .... don't put a smilie on a subject like the Super Bowl
and possible breakups. A jinx might ensue. Maybe a frownie?

Well it sure sucks to be in central Illinois this winter. We all know ABC will be broadcasting the Super Bowl in HD, well it seems that CBS will be airing the AFC Division and conference championships in HD too. WCIA has really dropped the ball on this. They always advertise how advance their equipment is and that they're the "premiere" station in central Illinois. Bull *@#%. Keep the e-mails and phone calls going to them. It probably won't matter, but it sure couldn't hurt either. I'm also e-mailing CBS to let them know how disappointed I am with their central Illinois affiliate.


CBS and Rca team up! (http://www.hidefguide.com/?HDPictures.com) :mad: :mad: :mad:

:mad: :mad: :mad:

There are your frownies, jdmcdonald... :)

I just turned to WAND-DT to see what was on tonight and, quite frankly, couldn't even make it out. It was just a jumbled mess of pixels, with no sound whatsoever. I checked out the signal meter, and it was registering at 100%. It must be on their end. I never had problems before they started upconverting / broadcasting at 720p.

I really, really hope they get this straightened out soon. I'd love to have an HD SuperBowl party, but it certainly wouldn't be worth it if their broadcasts are going to be like this.

Guess we gotta have some patience, though. At least they're trying to bring us HD... that's a lot more than can be said about the other stations in this area.

As I said in the WRSP thread, WAND's HDTV microwave is sick. Or
it could be a bad cable or connector. And they can't get the
vendor on the phone today.

They'll get it fixed.

A little off topic but I thought this might be a good place to ask.

Does anyone know of a good ISF calibrator in the area (Champaign)?
I'd like to get my Hitachi 65SWX20b done for the Superbowl.

dsinder-

call Champagne Audio in Champaign and ask for Mike Brya, he knows a person from Mahomet that does it. I just purchased a new system from him including the new sony hs-10 pj and asked if they had someone to do calibrations and this is what he told me.I haven't used him yet but its the only one I have heard of around here.

btw- for everyone else I just purchased and installed the ota tuner cartridge for the dish 6000 and was working on tuning in stations last night, so far the only thing I get is analog, I couldn't get a single digital channel.
I guess I will need to work with my antenna a bit , I'm only 5 miles west of the wicd tower so I can't believe I didn't even get a reading on the signal meter for them

anyway hopefully soon you guys will have another person to compare notes with

John

I think the name of the guy in Mahomet is Joe Tandy. I have spoken to him on one occassion about doing my sony and he was straightforward and honest in suggesting he had very little experience with sony rptv's. If I recall correctly he was very familiar with the Hitachi line and perhaps Toshiba. There is also a store in Peoria, the name of which escapes me, which is ISF capable. I think it is Home Theatre Concepts or something like that. These are listed on the ISF website, I believe.

I also have the 6000 Dish receiver and obtained the module about a month ago. I live in Sullivan, about 55 miles South and West of Champaign. I receive channel 23 and channel 17 from Decatur very clearly. 17 is having the HD problems spoken of, but when it comes in it is great. I have no luck getting anything else including Wcia 48 out of Champagin. I am in process of putting up a new Channel Master yagi or 4228 with a rotor. I'll keep everyone posted on how it works out.

I also concur that Mike or John at Champagne Audio are great resources and this is a great store to support. They are very price competitive and they know more about these subjects than the entire staff at any 5 Circuit City's or Best Buy Stores combined. I purchased my hdtv at Champagne Audio about two years ago and have had great luck with all my other purchases there. Just my $.02
Dan

I third the recommendation for Champagne Audio. The guys there are serious about staying informed on these topics (and I stop by about once a week to make sure they know the latest that's going on!).

WAND seemed more stable last night, but I had to re-orient my antenna to pull in the signal. I wonder why - did they do something with their transmitter?

John C.

As to WAND last night .... they obviously did something.

As to the antenna reorientation .... early in the evening you
may have had to re-orient to avoid interference from the channel
18 NTSC station in Lafayette Indiana ..... early in the evening there
was a period of the strongest tropo propagation from the east I
have ever seen .... for example, there was a Grade A picture
from Ch. 20 (PBS) in Indy! Ch 18 was Grade B before WAND turned on.
For the first time ever I got a good picture on 29. At the peak I
even got a stable picture on digital 46 from Indy .... over the
local LP 46!

But what WAND did should not change the picture quality. Did
nobody else notice? Their 17-2 appeared with a picture ...
just what I had "guessed" would eventually show up there ....
all weather all the time. Actually a wonderful resource.

Doug McDonald

Doug,

Yes,there was some hot"refraction action" here last night also.All St.Louis DT's,except 39,were in very strong for a period of time.KDNL 30 completely wiped out local WTIU 30 to the extent I thought they went off the air.Not even a trace of cci.Amazing stuff.

Also had WAND DT-18 in when Layfayette 18 cooled down.Only one new DT log,WBUI DT-22,Decatur.DTV log #70.

**HAPPY NEW YEAR**

The tropo must have been it - today everything is back to normal, and I'm getting a very stable picture on 17-1, which I've been watching since the Rose Bowl came on (thank you, WAND). Not HD, but far superior to what I get on their analog signal.

Meanwhile, still not a peep out of Fox. Now that football season is about over, I don't really care anymore . . .

John C.

So, what is the verdict on WICS-DT? I got it once or twice in November, but have never been able to get it since. I'm at least 40 miles from the transmitter. I can get WBUI-DT and WAND-DT fine, even when I point my rotor at what I believe to be towards WICS-DT's antenna (according to antennaweb.org).

They were just teasing with high power and now back down into a few light bulbs range (as reported here earlier)?

WAND-DT DD5.1--I guess not. I just e-mailed their engineering to ask about that. I guess nobody else here notices or cares :)

I get WICS-DT very rarely -- and I'm only about 15 minutes out of Springfield. It's pretty disappointing.

As for WAND-DT, I can't say that I've ever noticed them broadcasting DD 5.1. If they were, I'm pretty sure I would have noticed by now. I usually look twice at what's on when I see the blue light on my receiver...

Neither WICS, WICD, nor WCIA can tease with high power. They
don't have the transmitters, and for WICS and WICD, the antennas would melt anyway.

What WCIA has that WICD and WICS (Sinclair) don't have is
an antenna at full tower height. WICD and WICS are on
antennas barely taller than Ham radio operator can use.

You should not expect them to get any better before May 1, 2006.

Doug McDonald

It must have been a real fluke to get WICS-DT around 40 miles away then. I have a good NBC out of St. Louis fortunately.

However, the Sinclair ABC out of St. Louis is still having transmitter problems (the engineer posted again today). Between this and WAND-DT, maybe one will be ok for the Super Bowl--I guess DD5.1 would be a bonus at this point.

Well, I guess DD5.1 isn't high on WAND-DT engineering's list either. My e-mail of 10 days ago was ignored.

I realize it will be nice to have 2 choices to choose from for the Super Bowl, but I just wish somebody could give a technical explanation why it is so hard to get a 5.1 feed retransmitted. Probably in a thread around here somewhere. Maybe I'll start a new one.

Matt,

The Dolby 5.1 feed comes from ABC at a non-standard bitrate (640 kb/s) from the ATSC standard (384 kb/s). Thus, the affiliate is responsible for purchasing a decoder to split to three AES audio pairs, L/R/C/LFE/RS/LS, and then re-encode the AES pairs at the compressed bitrate. In addition, the need to switch these AES pairs requires additional audio switching apparatus, be it a router, or HD switcher. ABC does not feed all HD programs in 5.1, therefore the affiliate also needs to control the encoder to switch it from DD5.1 to DD2.0 whenever the network is only providing stereo. Again, the affiliate needs to justify each purchase in difficult economic times, just as I had to do to get my DTC-100 past the wife!

Best explanation I've found without a search :) Thanks . . . I assume somehow CBS plans on an easier route or else they wouldn't be speaking for their stations saying they will have x number of them up in 5.1 this year!

However, I did get a response to a follow up e-mail to WAND-DT engineering. To paraphrase, I guess they have the required equipment for DD but are still working on configuring it.

There is still hope for Super Bowl Sunday I guess . . .

Turls,
You are not the only one hoping for the superbowl in HD 5.1. Please keep the board informed of any updates you get them. I get WAND here in Normal only if I reaim my antenna, so until you say it is up and running correctly I won't be making the effort to reaim.

Well, I wouldn't be surprised if there is a way to manually switch they wait until the big day to do it. I have a rotor so it will be no big deal for me to go with either KDNL-DT or WAND-DT, depending on which one is better that day or else who is passing through 5.1.

As far as just HD goes, both seem to be doing pretty well, but I usually leave mine towards St. Louis for obvoius reasons.

WAND-DT is sick. They are working to fix the problem. The macroblock
problems are not your antenna.

Doug McDonald

I was trying to watch all the HD programming on Channel 18 last night. Great Video but no audio for the entire evening! Channel 42 was fine as was 23-1. Did you notice the lack of audio? I am beginning to worry about this for the Superbowl.


Pacragoe

Winegard 9095P with Channel master rotor.

Yep. No audio on WAND.

Doug McDonald

I talked to WAND's chief engineer. There's no way we are going
to be able to contact their on-duty engineer in the evening, because
their phone system simply is incapable of doit it .... I don't understand why.

That's the bad news.

The GOOD news is that they were trying to get surround sound working
in time for the Super Bowl. They may succeed. Also, they will be sure to check to see and hear that everything is working more reliably in the future.

Doug McDonald

Thanks for the follow up.

I will turn in this evening to see if the sound is on from 8:00 -8:30.

I thought they had it working, it just took a manual switch. Maybe I misunderstood the response and your info is newer than mine.

I would think they would be able to do the manual switch for the SB if nothing else.

In any case, I'll start the day pointing at Decatur. KDNL-DT's engineer confirmed they don't even have the equipement for DD5.1 and won't get it anytime soon.

Originally posted by jdmcdonald
The GOOD news is that they were trying to get surround sound working
in time for the Super Bowl. They may succeed. Also, they will be sure to check to see and hear that everything is working more reliably in the future.

No posts on the SB? Did somebody start a different thread? Well, no DD5.1 on WAND-DT. I was lead to believe by the engineer that they had the equipment, it just took a manual switch? Is it that complicated?

Maybe the DD5.1 viewers were spared the lip sync issues I had the ENTIRE game. Come on ABC! It definitely dulled the impact of the SB HD for my guests . . . a little :)

Yep, the lip-sync issues were disconcerting, but the picture was just stunning.

By the way, I switched between WAND and Detroit's ABC station (which I get via Canada's StarChoice small dish system), and they were having lip sync issues, too. Not as bad as WAND, but it made me wonder whether the problems were network-feed related. Also, no 5.1 from Detroit, either, even though that station does ABC's prime time programming in 5.1. So I wonder if the 5.1 problems were network related (although this also could have been a StarChoice issue).

By the way, I think we should e-mail WAND and tell them thanks. Even with the sound problems, they are the ONLY central-illinois station doing HD right now, so we should pat them on the back. If the SuperBowl had been on CBS, none of us would have gotten an HD picture (well, I would have via StarChoice, but not from WCIA!).

John C.

Do you know the email address for WAND so that we can send them our thanks, for having the superbowl on in HD? I can not comment on the 5.1 lip sync issue as we watched the superbowl at a friends house using my HD reciever, and an HD projector, while listening to the sound of the SD feed which was playing on the other TV's

Easiest way to e-mail them is from their website:

http://www.wandtv.com/

Click on "Contacts" in the "Inside WAND" box on the LH side of the site, and you'll get a list of WAND's various departments with their e-mails imbedded.

John C.

The Super Vowl worked just fine Chez McDonald.

The 720p on my 720p LCD RPTV was simply awesome. I did not
notice any artifacts. Perhaps they only occurred with people with
1080i TVs. Oh yes ... there were artifacts galore on upconverted material,
like a one pixel wide yellow line at the right edge of the pillarbox.

This show convinced me that 720 really is the way to go for sports ...
1080@30p would be good for some things, but the FCC should
totally ban 1080i.

Doug McDonald

I tried watching the superbowl from wand dt 17-1 with my panasonic 47" windescreen and a new zenith hd420. Not much luck. Terrible problems with the screen breaking up and alot of audio difficulty with dropouts and the sound running behind the lip movements. The picture repeatedly would break up and then go black with no signal and then restore shortly thereafter. These problems were particularly evident during the halftime show. Anyone else have these problems with wand?

Originally posted by uihoops
I tried watching the superbowl from wand dt 17-1 with my panasonic 47" windescreen and a new zenith hd420. Not much luck. Terrible problems with the screen breaking up and alot of audio difficulty ... Anyone else have these problems with wand?

Not here in Champaign ... it was perfect.

Doug McDonald

It looked good on my Samsung ts 160 and Hitachi 57swx.... which converts it to 1080i.... therefore, it does not look quite as good as native 1080i on my set.

The main problem I had was lip sync. The video preceeded the audio by and obvious margin... Not sure why, but I will have to check other ABC material to see if it is there.....

HD Net, and HBO are fine....

Pretty good show overall, but the ABC SD upconvert stuff was awefull... much worse than when the sammy converter does it.

D

Migman, did you get to contact Samsung about your OTA issues yet? I'm going to hold you personally responsible if I get those stations eventually if they up the power and Samsung hasn't fixed the problem ;)

After I thanked them for the broadcast, which I received just fine in Springfield, I asked WAND-17-1 how much it costs to upgrade to HD broadcast. Here is their reply. He also apologized for the lip synch problem during the SB.

Is it true that it cost millions to broadcast in HD like WAND is now
doing?

It depends. It can cost a couple of million if the tower has to be
strengthened to take a full power antenna and feed. Digital 480I can now be upconverted for 30-75 grand for the encoding only. The FCC permitted
stations to put on a low power signal to serve the main city only for an
interim solution which saves the cost of a full power transmitter. I didn't
have to strengthen the tower and still spent over a million. The government
is saying the regular transmitter will have to be turned off sometime in the
future so its going to be a pay it now or pay it later unless they change
their mind.

I saw the out of time audio but was afraid I would kill it
By adjusting it.

wandeng@wandtv.com

Well, I've contacted everyone.
Samsung and Direct TV alterately ignore, or make lame excuses and fail to address the problem. I did get some good communications with the engineer at the station... and he pretty much said that they have a PSIP problem that causes problems with some boxes... Has to do with two 'primary' (-1) stations. (49-1 and 3-1).
He said it was a top shelf thing to address, buy that was probably 3 weeks ago. I will have to check back.

D

Thanks for the update. Sounds like they are working on it, sounds like we can't expect much from Samsung.

WAND-DT was already on the air at 6:20 this evening and is still on at 10:20. I had read somewhere that they did plan to go full time with the digital beginning April.

There were not on at 8:30 this morning.

Doug McDonald

The last two evenings they have been on well before 7 pm and off a bit after the end of Nightline. Not sure what the exact shcedule is now.

It's 11:45 now and WAND is still on.

Not always helpful, but here's what they say on their website now:

"WAND transmits a 720P over the air high definition signal during prime time per the FCC. Prime time is 11 a.m. - 11 p.m. weekdays and 6 - 10 p.m. on Sunday. We upconvert programming and station breaks from our analog system when ABC isn't making a high definition program available to us. We will endeavor to make all special event programming available in HDTV to you."

WCCU and WRSP got construction permit extensions to 9/31/03
(for WCCU). This means they will certainly not be on until then,
if then, if ever. They are trying as hard as possible to stall.

Note that their tower, antenna, and transmitter has been complete
for digital for two years now!

Doug McDonald

I noticed last night during NYPD Blue that my receiver had switched from Dolby Pro Logic II to THX Ultra 2. Further checking showed that the network feed was getting fed through in 2/2.1 channels.

I have heard that NBC in Peoria is now digital and broadcasting HD when available. I think the call letter are WEEK Channel 25. Can anyone confirm that?

Yes. It is mapped at 57-1. 4x3 aspect with gray bars. Indicator light says HD, but the material I saw was upconverted and didn't look all that nice.

Joe

57-1 is HD when the network senda HD material.

Originally posted by jtandy
Yes. It is mapped at 57-1. 4x3 aspect with gray bars. Indicator light says HD, but the material I saw was upconverted and didn't look all that nice.

Joe

You can get them in Champaign? Really? If so, where and
what is your antenna?


I've seen not a trace.

Doug McDonald

Does anyone know when WMBD CBS out of Peoria is going to come online?

Thanks
jc

Originally posted by jdmcdonald
You can get them in Champaign? Really? If so, where and
what is your antenna?


I've seen not a trace.

Doug McDonald

I can't get it at my house; my customers in Bloomington do. That's where I noticed it. Didn't mean to get you excited.:D

Joe

It really does not matter much as they will be at 1.26 kw and no HD passed through, supposed to be within a week or 2 for the lame digital excuse they will be outputting.



Originally posted by jchorak
Does anyone know when WMBD CBS out of Peoria is going to come online?

Thanks
jc

WMBD is on the air digital 30-1 remapped to 31-1 at a stunning 1.26 kw digital and no HD, the owners and engineers are both weak and lame.

WMBD is a joke, its a shame they're the only CBS station near me. Their head engineer told me 18months before they pass HD. The ABC station WHOI should be going live soon, anyone know if they plan to broadcast HD?

ABC will be lower power as well, HD I am not sure about, they are not as big a problem for us in Peoria as we can easily recieve WQAD out of moline for HD. A four bay with no amp will work fine for the HD moline stations. There have been a couple of editorials in the local paper slamming WMBD already for the lack of HD, and they say noone watches. A big hats off to WEEK for going full power and passing HD from the first day.

There have been a couple of editorials in the local paper slamming WMBD already for the lack of HD, and they say noone watches.


I wrote one that ended up in the opinion of the Journal Star about 2 weeks ago :D

I wrote the other one commending WEEK about a week later.

Awesome!!! I read it!! Good write :)

Hey can you guys post the articles refrenced?

Email from WHOI -

Our digital antenna has been installed. We expect delivery of the digital transmitter any day now. We hope to be telecasting in digital by mid July. Thanks for writing.

I do not think that PJstar.com keeps stuff on for more than 7 days.

For those that have been wondering about no signal from WTVP (PBS digital 46 Peoria) lately, here is an email from them:

The other news is that we are finally moving to our new facility down on Peoria's riverfront. Our digital broadcasting has been interrupted because we're doing things like disassembling the satellite dish so it can be moved and reassembled downtown. Annoying but necessary....Word from the engineers is that Channel 46 will be up and running again about the first week in July.

I just received an email from an Insight Cable representative here in Champaign. They are going to start carrying HBO-HD and Showtime HD the first week of July, and "an HDNET package that will include sports &
music" in approximately 60 days. Presumably that package will include ESPN HD and Discovery HD, if the Insight HD lineup in Louisville is any indication. No word on if or when they will carry WAND HD.

I live in washington and having a very hard time picking up (CBS)WMBD and amnot getting FOX (WYZZ) and ABC(HOI) at all.

I am not sure if HOI is live yet.

Any suggestions on an Antenna that will work and can be concealed

I tried the TERK 55 and it was horrible.

Thanks

I called Insight Communications a couple days ago regarding HDTV. In a few weeks, the following HDTV channels will be available in Bloomington/Normal via cable:

HBO
Showtime
ESPN-HD
Discover-HD
HDNet
HDNet Movies
WTVP (PBS)
WEEK (NBC)They are still working on getting WHOI (ABC) and WYZZ (Fox) on board.

Their web site says it will cost current Digital Cable subscribers only $2 per month. They told me over the phone that it will cost Basic Cable subscribers $10 per month.

I can't wait!

I heard from a reliable source today that WMBD (CBS) in Peoria, IL, is broadcasting HDTV over the air. I hope that means Insight cable will eventually be carrying their HDTV signal.

Auggie,

I will check tonight. I have been having a hard time getting in from Washington.

I have a Zenith Silver Sensor Indoor Antenna that seems to work the best of about four I have tried.

I have only had my Sony GWII and Zenith SAT520 about two week. I can get WEEK 57(NBC), PBSHD is coming up on 46-4, and UPN but they have no shows I have seen in HD.

Waiting on HOI 40 and WYZZ(FOX) 28

I would think a good roof top Antenna could get you the Decatur/Champaign/Springfield stations.

I am trying to see if I can get away with an indoor Antenna or have somewhere in the attic.

Originally posted by stick30
I would think a good roof top Antenna could get you the Decatur/Champaign/Springfield stations.True. I've been talking to someone in town who can do just that with their rooftop antenna and rotor. But the ideal situation for me is to get HDTV without having to purchase any equipment. $10/month with no equipment to buy and no antenna is what I'm waiting for, even if it takes a couple of months for the other affiliates to sign on with Insight.

Originally posted by jdmcdonald
Uh, WICD is east of you. the rest are west. I think you mean
the antenna points west.

Doug McDonald

I belive WICD is transmitting from the main studios tell they setup at the main TX site. So the strong signal to the west makes sence.

Marcus

I picked up a Zenith 520 at CC for $499 and was expecting to pickup NBC/WEEK on 57, but I find nothing there. Is this channel online or not? Also, as I sit here watching WHOI and WMDB digital, They aren't broadcasting HD, even at prime time (Letterman, Nightline). Is this typical? It is a little disappointing. Also, I'm a bit suprised that it is being said that one should be able to pick up Moline or Springfield with a rooftop antenna from Peoria. I have a rooftop, and I'm getting neither of them. If its possible to do, what am I missing here?

ABC and CBS are not passing a HDTV signal. NBC is and I was able to pick them up 2 days ago the last time I was able to watch a little tv. As far as roof top antenna's, it all depends on what your using. I live out in the woods so I can only get good signals from NBC and PBS. PBS's HD signal isnt that great now that they are mutlicasting....lots of blocking.

Make sure to call WMBD and WHOI and tell them how your dissappointed in their service....I have...multiple times.

mcmilwj,

I live in Morton and just finished installing an antenna in my attic. I can pick up Springfield channels and Decatur, including ABC digital out of Decatur. I can pick up a couple of Moline channels and even Fox digital out of Bloomington along with all of the Peoria channels, of course. You will definitely need a preamplifier and an antenna rotator. My antenna is a CM 4228 with a CM 7777 preamplifier.

NBC out of Peoria offers HD and ABC out of Decatur and Moline offer HD. Other than that, you are SOL. I hope this helps.

HD

Where did you get your Antenna and equipment. I have been looking for a solution that will get me ABC in Decatur and somewhere that passes through CBS HD

I am in washington looking to put one in my attic also

stick30,

I ordered the antenna and preamplifier off of solidsignal.com. I got the Rotator at the Radio Shack there in Washington. I bought a tripod, but there wasn't enough room in the attic to allow the antenna to turn. I had to rig up something with 2x4's to mount the rotator. If your attic is big enough, I would get a tripod. The antenna is 40 in. wide.

As far as CBS HD, I can't get it anywhere.

Home Theater Concepts in Morton can sell and install any of the antenna equipment you will need for HD in and around central Illinois. Dan is a great guy and knows what signals are out there and how to get them.

Can't verify it yet since my set isn't in, but WHOI just scrolled across the bottom of MNF that they're now HD on channel 40.

edit: Poor grammar, sorry.

It appears they are working on it. I just got home and 19-1 keeps going up and down.

For a brief period I had a HD signal with sound but no picture.

I am sure it will be up soon

According to Titan-TV, the 8:30 "According to Jim" and the 9:00 "NYPD BLues" should be in HD. I checked the "according to Jim" several times and no HD. (I didn't check ABC out of Decatur to see if they had it.) But the currently playing NYPD is HD (execpt for the credits which I thought was weird). That is great news. Looks good.

Anyone hear anything now on the one holdout - CBS?

And speaking of our beloved CBS station, HDinIllinois or anyone else, could you confirm for me that you are NOT getting the Fox 480p Widescreen feed but rather just a 480i 4x3 upcovert on 43-1?

Yes, Jim and NYPD looked great. It seems that WHOI just tweaking today on and off.

Now if WMBD would get their Ass in gear!!!!

I confirm that 43-1 is not FoxWidescreen 480p.

Is anybody in the Shelbyville area? I've got a winegard 8200 on a 40' tower with a rotor and am wondering what I'll be able to get this evening?...my hdv-420 finally got here..


erie

I used to be from Findlay. I remember people saying Shelbyville was somewhat in a hole.

You should be able to get WAND 19-1 no problem I can get it from Peoria. The others could be a problem.

It will take some time rotating to get the best signal.

dgreen,

Fox is just 480i and I don't expect anything different for a while. I believe the same people run FOX 43 as WMBD 31 and they don't sound as if they are in any hurry to provide HD. I think we are seeing all the HD we are going to see for a while. That really sucks since the Super Bowl is on CBS this year. A very crappy effort if you ask me.

WRSP apparently will pass through the 480p.

Doug McDonald

That's cool. Is WRSP coming online soon? Every time their target date approaches, it seems to get pushed back...

I have Basic cable from Insight in Normal, IL. The Monday Night Football broadcast tonight is tall and skinny on my 4:3 TV. Looks like WHOI (Peoria, IL) is sending its 16:9 HDTV broadcast to Insight. (WHOI started broadcasting MNF OTA last Monday.)

Obviously, it can't be high definition, but it's definitely the 480i version of ABC's HDTV broadcast. Everyone without a 16:9 TV, unable to stretch the picture like it should be, is going to be wondering what the heck is going on.

I've put the broadcast up on my Sharp 9000 DLP projector and it looks 1000 times better than the ultra-crappy version of MNF I usually get. And it's fun to see the widescreen version of MNF. WHOI is usually washed out and "snowy" coming over cable. Tonight, the colors are sharp as is the picture, even though it's not high definition.

Getting the broadcast OTA in HD 720p and it looks great. In fact my neighbor is going to CC tomorrow and buy a Zenith SAT520 since he has DTV and a nice 65inch Sony. We are there next week for the Bears/Packers.

Is it possible that insight is doing something that is not letting the HD pass through?????

Originally posted by stick30
Is it possible that insight is doing something that is not letting the HD pass through????? No. They just screwed up. I don't have HDTV cable nor do I have the equipment to decode it. They just accidentally broadcast the ABC HDTV broadcast (downconverted to 480i) and handed it to Insight. If they did it on purpose, they don't have much respect for everyone with a 4:3 TV that was having to put up with tall skinny football players.

Originally posted by Augie
They just accidentally broadcast the ABC HDTV broadcast (downconverted to 480i) and handed it to Insight. If they did it on purpose, they don't have much respect for everyone with a 4:3 TV that was having to put up with tall skinny football players. I watched part of the late local news on WHOI after the game. They apologized for having technical difficulties during the Miss America pageant and said they'd be reairing it. They also said technical difficulties prevented some people from seeing the MNF game.

Reading between the lines, WHOI must have handed Insight the downconverted version of the HDTV broadcast because that's all they had to give them -- better that than nothing at all.

Turns out I was lucky to see the game at all. It wet my appetite for HDTV, that's for sure. If the downconverted version looks that good, I can only imagine how good the HDTV version looks!

Augie,

I just was talking with a guy from work and he brought up the game and how great it looked on insight.

He has a Hitachi 43" 4:3 and he said exactly what you said last night.

You just have to decide when to take the plunge, you have all that great equipment, why not spend the extra on a receiver.

I just got home and I have Insight HDTV in Washington IL, near Peoria, and They now have ABC on HD Channel 760! Looks like I will get to see the Bears Open up Soldier Field in HD after all!!

I have insight cable here in Springfield and am nearly getting frustrated with insight. I was told that by the end of the month, they would be offering the HD pack that is similiar in price and products to the dishnetwork package. I'm not sure what, if any, local HD channels will be included.
However, I just looked at my HD reciever tonight and noticed that there are channels 750 and 751 coming through (HBO that I've been getting and Showtime HD), but there is also 774-778. 774 is the Bravo HD+ channel that was actually on last night. They must be pushing it through as a test or something. I have a Panasonic PT-LC75U and the HD picture was fantastic. They were showing a special on music concerts and it was awesome. I think they must have taped it in HD because it was much better that the upconverted HBO movies. I'm not sure what 775-778 are, but Inisght is getting a call tomorrow to see what they are. I'll post an update.

HDTV Reception in Danville

I live in Danville and wonder what the reception is like in this area?? I have an Samsung HLN 61 and am eager to get the setup for HDTV.

I have DirecTV and wonder if I should stay with them or look at Dish-network when I upgrade my STB to HDTV - would like any advise you you may have.

Also, I do not have any antenna setup and would like to know what I will need for this area?

Thanks so much for any help.

Geoffrey

Well, by looking at http://www.antennaweb.org it does not look ideal for OTA reception, but I do not have any specific experience.

I'd almost lean to recommending Dish (E*), especially if you are currently a Pegasus D* provided customer. E* is planning on offering the Champaign / Springfield locals (although they will not be HDTV!), E* does not add a local provider fee in your area, and E* does have a HDTV CBS feed available to certain customers, but I'm not sure if you'd have to "move" to qualify for those. I'm a D* customer, but think you are in a situation where you may be better served by E*.

The advantage of staying with D* is currently wider selection of HDTV set top boxes, that currently have better OTA reception than the Dish 6000 (if you get the D* Sony or Zenith).

I'd wait until early next year to see if the new Dish box (811) has received good reports about OTA reception, and if so, it may be worth while getting. (Or their HDTV PVR if you really want it)

Danville is iffy for HDTV OTA.

WILL-DT will be on at full power in January, and will have HDTV.
You will be able to get them with a big Channel 9 antenna.

WICD-DT (ch 41) is on now and you will get them with any UHF antenna,
but they are not yet HDTV. They are at low power, but that will not
be a problem unless you are behind a hill.

WCIA-DT (ch 48) is on but not HD, and at low power. At full power
you will get them .. but not now.

WAND (18) and WBUI (22) are on and WAND is full power HDTV.

They are a long way from you but you may get them, espeically
WAND, with a really good antenna.

All the Indy majors are on in HD. You will get all of them part
of the time depending on propagation conditions, which are best
in August and are slipping now. You are helped by the low
ground level in the Wabash valley. I frequently get WRTV and
sometimes WFYI here in Champaign. I suspect that a big antenna
on a tall pole will get you the Indy channels reliably.

Doug McDonald

Doug:

Thanks ever so much for the great information on channels and power:) Looks to be very exciting for the future and I can't wait!!!

Wonder if you could point me in the right direction for a "BIG" antenna and also where to get a pole for the antenna??

Thanks again,

Geoffrey

Hi Doug,

I am curious if you have any insight into WICD-DT in Mahomet.

I get 3-1, 17-1/2, 23-1, (and 49-1 if I reconfigure my Samsung TS-160.
These are on a set top antenna.

Anything else I could pull in with a better antenna? What kind of antenna would you reccomend?

Sure wish 3-1 WCIA-CBS would go HD feed. ABC is nice!

Thanks,
David

Don't bother with WICD-DT. The picture is no better than
their analog, and they are at a low power and low antenna
height. They will be getting a better antenna and higher power soon,
and MAY get HD ... I strongly suggest you call them up and say
"WE WANT HDTV" ... as well as finding a thread an avsforum about Sinclair
(their owner) and telling MrDTV that "WE WANT HDTV", he is the
guy who can make things happen. Once they get a full height
antenna you will get them with a small antenna, perhaps even at low
power.

When WRSP-44 in Springfield comes on hopefully Nov. 1 you will probably be able to get them with a big antenna on the roof and a good preamp.

Call WCIA as well as WICD and demand HD.

WILL will be on as soon after the New Year as a tower crew
can get their antenna up ... they would be on by Christmas
EXCEPT that their station manager ORDERED their engineers
not to install the antenna as soon as it arrives "So we will
be at full power during our begging period". They will get HD.
And you will have no trouble getting them (ch 9) with a
trivial antenna ... even a UHF antenna will work if it is the kind
that has two unconnected wings, rather than a loop (which shorts
out at DC), as they are very close to you.

Hi Doug:

Do you think the Channel Master 3671 would be a good choice for the Danville area to pull in HDTV from Champaign and maybe Indianapolis??

Thanks

Geoffrey

Hard to say whether a monster VHF like that will help.

When WILL-9 (PBS) in Champaign goes on, it may ruin WISH-9
(CBS) in Indy even with a monster antenna .... or it may not.

A possible alternative is the 4228, an all-UHF antenna
which is much smaller. Then possibly add a Winegard
single channel Channel 9 to it.

Because of the two Ch 9s (there is also 11 in Lafayette, CBS
but they are not HD) you've got a really tough case.

I've tried an antenna equivalent to half a 4228 and it seems to work OK.
I have it indoors through a big window, but not one big enough that
a full 4228 would help much.

You will need a good preamp. Because of the analogs on 15 and
27 you will need really good overload performance.

Doug

Originally posted by jdmcdonald
WRSP apparently will pass through the 480p.


After inquiring, I got an email from WRSP stating they will begin DTV broadcasts by 11/1/03 on channel 44 at 335 kilowatts. They also plan on passing through 480p widescreen and 5.1 programming when they start DTV broadcasts. That is great news (and hoping they are strong enough to pick-up in Bloomington).

Hey Peoria CBS and Bloomington FOX, let's get going with HD!

Thanks again Dough:

Mmmmmmmmmmm a lot to be looking at in Danville to get hdtv reception.

Just check http://www.antennaweb.org
and it is showing that WLFI-DT 11 CBS Lafayette IN Now Live 75°

Just wanted to pass this information on to all who are interested. The following is a copy and paste.

As the system design engineer for WRSP-DT, I'll be up your way this week,
and hopefully have WRSP-DT on-air by this weekend. We'd love to hear from you on reception, feel free to email me here. We'll be on RF channel
44 @ 330kw..You should see us as 55-1 and 55-2.
Feel free to spread the word on AVS!

Thanks!

There you are!!

Alacazam

Thats good news....! Keep us up to date...

WSEC (PBS - Jacksonville) is very close to going live. They've been testing the last couple of days. Their 1080i feed looks pretty sweet. :D

Originally posted by alacazam
Just wanted to pass this information on to all who are interested. The following is a copy and paste.

As the system design engineer for WRSP-DT, I'll be up your way this week,
and hopefully have WRSP-DT on-air by this weekend. We'd love to hear from you on reception, feel free to email me here. We'll be on RF channel
44 @ 330kw..You should see us as 55-1 and 55-2.
Feel free to spread the word on AVS!

Thanks!

There you are!!

Alacazam

PLEASE!! Turn on WCCU also!!!!

I certainly could have got WRSP last night .... in fact I watched
Fox 45 in Indy, despite being 108 miles away, but in the winter
WRSP may be hard.

Doug McDonald

Hi Doug:

What antenna's do you have to be able to pull in Indy stations = must be amazing? From previous posts I live in Danville`

Was going to go DISH HDTV STB and have OTA antenna installed, and dump DirecTV. But now I have decided to opt for the new VOOM satellite system. They include in the package OTA antenna. Hope it works at least in getting the champ stations. Maybe they can add more if I pay the extra so I can get Indy:) Will have VOOM installed on the 22 Oct.

Cheers,
Geoffrey

It will be awhile before we light up WCCU..Hope to have WRSP on-air
sometime today if all goes well!

Thanks for the update Bob. I'll be looking this evening!

Originally posted by gels
Hi Doug:

What antenna's do you have to be able to pull in Indy stations = must be amazing?

Cheers,
Geoffrey


I'm currently using a Radio Shack double bowtie. The Indy
stations only come in in late summer-early fall. They were very
strong this monring.

Doug McDonald

Last night at the cable commission meeting in Champaign
WICD (NBC) said that they will have HDTV in six months. Full power
will be much later, and the guy there had no idea about
their antenna height.

WCIA (CBS) was a no-show ... little doubt why.

WBUI did show up and said that they really want HDTV but are
worried about the money, which he quoted as $250,000. Also,
they will be going full power in a few days. He said that this
will not change their power bill.

Doug MCDonald

-----Original Message-----
From: Dale R Sinder
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 2:24 PM
To: 'vpgm@wcia.com'
Subject: WCIA and HDTV

I am writing to inform you that due to the fact that WCIA has
offered no indication whatever that it will broadcast HDTV
that I will no longer watch any CBS or WCIA programming
until HDTV from WCIA becomes a reality.

cc: vpgm@wcia.com
cbs.com feedback

Dale Sinder
CITES
University of Illinois

That's nice, since until a few months ago after I corrected them, TitanTV had them live and me looking for a non-existent signal.

Originally posted by Chilli_Dog
WSEC (PBS - Jacksonville) is very close to going live. They've been testing the last couple of days. Their 1080i feed looks pretty sweet. :D

I am getting WRSP-DT in SE Urbana intermitently. No preamp. Looks Like I'll need to add one.

Hi Dale,
Thanks for the update,,what antenna and receiver are you using?

I'm using a Sony HD200. The antenna is a channel master 3018 mounted on a rotor about 15' above the peak of my single story roof. The antenna output is split two ways with one half going onto a Radio Shack remote RF switch and then to a ChannelPlus DA 550HHR distribution amp then to the HD200. (The other half of the split signal goes to a manual switch which is also connected to a UHF antenna pointed at WICD and then to my TIVO.)

At around 5:15 the signal started to get stronger and I've had a steady picture ever since. Right now the HD200 signal strength meter is staying right around the boundary between "normal" and "good".

Ready for Cubs Baseball tomorrow!

WRSP-DT coming in loud and clear in Sherman IL. Looks great! Using a Zenith HD-SAT520 and a Channelmaster 4228 in the attic.

The only concern I have is with the upconverted programming. It's awesome that WRSP is capable of outputting an HD signal. I'm really looking forward to the Enhanced Widescreen and future 720p programming. My concern is that most of the current programming will be 4:3 with sidebars. As much FOX as I watch, burn-in will be a definite concern since I can't stretch a 1080i signal like I can a 480i / p signal...

Other than that, I'm ecstatic! Woohoo (in my best Homer Simpson voice)!!!

WRSP-DT is showing identical programming / resolution on 55-1 and 55-2 (1080i). What are the plans for the 2nd subchannel? Will this be an SD version of FOX programming? Or something else?

Thanks in advance for your response. And congrats on getting the digital broadcast up and running!!!

55-2 will be the same video as 55-1, except the audio will be SAP(spanish)
or DVS(descriptive video) when available..The Simpsons DVS can be hilarious..
We can add grey or colored side bars, but have found with past experience that most viewers don't like this..it is easy to add them tho..
I have a 520 as well..you can get around this by putting the box in 480p
mode..it wil then allow you to fill the screen,If I'm correct, it has been a whilesince I have done that..

55-1 and 55-2 coming in pretty good from the East side of Bloomington with just a basic attic antenna (no preamp). Just a couple breakups that I'm sure can be tweaked on my end. Good use of a sub-channel with the spanish.

My understanding is that you are passing 480p widescreen and 5.1 when available? Can't wait to get that. Am I correct that our first chance will be Sun afternoon football? Is WRSP assigned a game that is 480p and 5.1?

I will obviously be waiting for full HD programming. But for now, this is great. Thanks for the work and offerings (and now the pressure is really on for the Cubs to go to the WS as we want to see them in 480p and 5.1).

We can add grey or colored side bars, but have found with past experience that most viewers don't like this..
Good point.
I have a 520 as well..you can get around this by putting the box in 480p mode..it will then allow you to fill the screen,If I'm correct, it has been a while since I have done that..
You are correct. Switching to 480p allows you to set the ratio to "cropped", which will fill the screen quite nicely. Unfortunately, with the Zenith, that's kind of a pain. You can't switch from 1080i to 480p with the remote. Instead, you have to get up and switch it from the front panel.

The only other option is to switch to 480i (which you can do with the remote), and then switch inputs on the TV. That's not a problem for me, but I can see the wife getting a little frustrated with that... :rolleyes: Looks like I'll be setting up macros on the remote pretty soon... :p

Bob, thanks for taking the time to respond. It's nice to have a local engineer on the forum who is willing to answer our questions (and who understands our passion for digital / HD reception).

You'r welcome. But I'm only here til Saturday, at which point I'll turn it over to the WRSP Engineers..but I'll be monitoring the thread and you can email
me with any questions.
I'm not sure when we will have the first NFL game in widescreen, there are some issues we have to work out with FOX based on the fact that WRSP
and WCCU mostly carry the same feeds, but occassionally have to do seperate feeds. (WRSP and WCCU come from the same master control)
That is complicating things a bit. We'll keep you posted.

I am in Bloomington, Il and will be getting my first HD capable set on Monday.

I called Insight Communications about HD cable and was informed that the local ABC station i(WHOI) s now on the HD package they offer. They hope to have NBC (WEEK) available in about a month. They are in contract negoations with them now, supposedly. CBS (the Tiffany Network) isn't even broadcasting in HD in the area.

Anybody using Insight's service in the Bloomington area? If so, how is the available programming - quality and quantity?

Are they still using two boxes for HD - one for digital cable and one for HD, or have they gone to a single box? The person I asked didn't know anything about the hardware.

My experience in dealing with Insight is that you'll likely get as many answers as people you talk to. I actually had one person tell me that their digital music channels were broadcast in mono, because most people didn't have stereo tvs. This was while I was listening to one of the channels in stereo!

I'll either go with Insight or look into one of the sat services when the HD PVR options come out.

Thanks in advance for any feedback fellow Central Illinoisans can provide.

I have the HD package in Bloomington. Went from the "enhanced" analog package to the digital package with HD. Get the same cable channels with the addition of the HD ones. HDnet, HDnet Movies, Discovery HD, and ESPN HD are the cable channels. All are good and reliable. Bravo HD was listed on the brochure but isn't up yet.

As far as local channels, it is the PBS and ABC stations out of Peoria. My judgement is both are better over cable than OTA. Not sure why that is. The NBC station would be convenient, but I can pull it OTA. You are correct that there is no CBS. That is the big central Illinois HD missing piece as far as I am concerned. A response as to plans from WMBD has been nonexsistent for the last several months. Anyone else know?

I had my install about a month ago and it was the two boxes. I don't even have the digital cable box running to the set. Only the HD box.

There was lots of differing information over the summer about how this would take shape from Insight, but now that it is here, they are doing a really good job from my perspective. There is no time commitment so other than a $4.95 service call, I don't think you can go wrong in giving it a try.

I'm getting 55-1 and 55-2 off the back side of my antenna great (40 ft tower 45 miles SW of Springfield) with a Samsung TS160, I can pull that trick off with ABC out of Decatur only once in a while. So now I can get Fox out of St. Louis and Springfield at the same time without using the rotor . . . nice.

Just joined you guys yesterday. I have a Panny 300 projector and finally got an HD set top box, Zenith. We had 20 people over last night and everyone was blown away by PBS high def and most even thought the game on Fox looked high def. Toy Story on ABC looked great and was in dolby digital which blew everyone away as well.

A buddy has high def on cable and I prefer OTA, mainly because there is noticeable pixelation on cable. I invested in a 4228 antenna, rotor and preamp and we can get Decatur, Springfield and Peoria all perfectly. Before the HD tuner, 47 was very grainy and 59 was unwatchable. They now both come in crystal clear. I had a 25" backup TV tuned to the same channels as the HD tuner and our guests couldn't believe the difference in signal quality. Life is good, if we can just get CBS in digital and more HDTV programming, all will be better.

One note on the 4228 antenna. We had a standard channel master UHF antenna installed last year by our satellite installer. The 4228 is not much of an upgrade over what we had. If I had it to do over again, I would just add the preamp, rotor and HD set top box.

Don Clark

I worked furiously on WRSP-55 here in Champaign (on First St.)
last night. When conditions are good ... as they are right now,
9 in the morning, it is easy to get with a Radio Shack double bowtie
with the screen on it, or a home-made quad bowtie with no
reflector, with non-critical positioning.

However, it degraded badly last night but eventually I found some
signal with a dedicated Ch. 46 (6 channels wide) antenna in my bedroom,
using a cheesy 5 dB NF amp. It was almost but not quite perfect. I think that even 2 dB more antenna or a better preamp and it would be fine.

If they just had full power it would be very easy. I was surprised to
note some Faux Widescreen stuff, with a very very blatent occupation
of the non-4:3 zone with absolutely, totally, worthless junk.

Doug McDonald

Thanks to all for the reports on WRSP.

I was able to get WRSP-DT with a strong signal after 5:15 PM Thursday.
But since then it's been mostly not quite enough signal. I've got a preamp ordered.

If we invest in antenna's now to receive stations transmitting at low power what will happen when they go to full power or go higher on the mast?? Will we have to replace the antenna's or change the pre amps because of too much power??

Might seem a silly question:)

Cheers,
Geoffrey

Not a silly question at all. In some cases, the preamp will help, in others
it will overload the receiver and make problems worse. Worst case, you will
have to remove it, but the antennas should not be a problem. I'd just wait and see, you may have to do a bit of experimenting to get the optimum
configuration.

Here, I have a Silver Sensor mounted outside on the chimney feeding
a 4-way, commercial grade amplified 15db splitter, which feeds my RCA100,
Zenith 520,Sammy 160 and Dish 6000. I get all 9 locals perfectly..8 UHF's and 1 VHF. So, sometimes simpler can be better, no one antenna config
will work in all situations. Hope this helps!

I just yesterday built (I build these things out of copper tubing ...
they are indoor) a monster 7 foot long Ch. 44 antenna and installed
it ... it is much better than the Radio Snack double bowtie, my homemade
quad bowtie with no reflector, and its half-as-long predecessor, in
fact, it is just, as theory predicts, 2.5 dB better than is predecessor.

But somebody mentioned "what happens when somebody (in our case,
WCIA) goes to full power". Funny, I just did the calculation, and I find
that while all would be well now with a CM 7775, if the two stations
(44 and 48) were the same direction, there would be a serious
overload on 48 at full power. Luckily, I'm just far enough south
that I can get 44 at the center of the pattern and 48 much lower down,
so it shoucl work. Otherwise, it would be $120 for a GaAsFET preamp
with higher overload and lower gain. The CM 7775 has too much gain.

With my current preamp, 44 seems pretty stable but there are some
breakups when it is coming in poorly.

Doug McDonald

Am I the only one not getting 55-1? All I get is 55-2. Not a big deal since I like listening to the radio call during the ballgame.

The picture is really nice though. The best FOX picture I've ever seen!

I'm in Champaign and get a 100% on the signal with a 40' tower and an old Wineguard amplified fringe UHF antenna.

Lance

Hi Lance-
What receiver are you using? We'll check and make sure all is well with WRSP-DT,last look at our DTC100 and Sony 200 all was well.

It's a Toshiba. Something like a DST3000. I've had it for a couple of years.

If you're sure 55-1 is going out I'll look at my end. I haven't reset the receiver or anything. It may be an issue with a Directv local channel (don't ask) on 44 messing me up.

I'll give it a power reset when I get home and see what happens.

Thanks for the help!

Check your receiver setups Lance, 55.1 is broadcasting fine. I'm watching it right now on a Sony 200.

I just received my CM 4228 and have a 7777 preamp on order. I'am not sure this setup will be exactly what I need. My zipcode is 61739 and I would like to pull in the Peoria stations from the roof of my single story house. Can anyone recommend a better setup for my area. Or anyone in my area have any luck with this setup? Thanks in advance!

Found out today that those going with the new VOOM Sat service will get in their installation the Channel Master Stealth 3010. Can't imagine it doing much on the fringe area's like Danville??

Like to hear your thoughts.

Cheers,
Geoffrey

It was my receiver. A power off/on and 55-1 is now there.

Thanks to all!

I'm missing program guide info for the following:

WICD-DT
WBIU-DT
WRSP-DT

Additionally the Guide for WAND-DT reflects the old hours (starting at 7PM) rather than the current schedule. I'd really like to be able to remove the Analog channels from my favorites but doing so now makes it hard to see guide data (without the -DT guide data present).

Are others in the same situation? Who might we encourage to address the problem?

Hi Guys and Gals:)

Just talked with a local antenna installer, and they recommend the Winegard HD-7084 and say they get good reception with this model.

Does anyone have any comments please???

One day soon I'll get this HDTV setup done, but don't want to get it wrong!!!:(

Thanks and Cheers,
Geoffrey

dsinder:
The Sony 200 only reads guide data from DirecTv's APG. (you do have the
unit connected to directv?) We sent them the info to put us in the system
several days ago, and have not heard back. That's why you aren't seeing anything. We do put generic guide data in, most receivers that have directv do not read it, but take the APG instead. I was told by a leading
STB engineer that this is a DirecTv contractual requirement.

Thanks Bob,

I expected that was the case and called DirecTV yesterday late afternoon. The entertainment consultant was less than helpful and I finally managed to get thru to 2nd level support for HD. THat after the entertainment consultant sent me off to Ultimate TV support apparently not knowing the difference.

The 2nd level put me on hold for a while and came back and gave me a line about how my signal might be strong enough to get picture and sound but not guide data from the OTA station. I replied that as an engineer myself this did not make sense. I was floored by the response I got back. "It does not make sense to me either, but that's what they told me to say."


After an hour of this and while watching the Sox and Yankees I decided to give up on DT for the afternoon.

----
Today:

I spent another 1.5 hours on the phone this evening going thru 2 entertainment consultants, a floor manager and a manager above him.

DirecTV remains firm that local guide information does not pass thru their facilities unless it is a local channel that they carry. They say that the program guide that is broadcast by the local broadcaster is integrated into the AGP. However, the AGP is not available at all unless there is a satellite input.

They say if I'm getting guide data for some local stations and not others then it's because those stations are not including program data in their broadcast signal.

And since the data in the APG is horrible at keeping up with live channels, and there is no way to get feedback to them about it, it is very frustrating.

Especially for those of us with channels on multiple vectors.

Originally posted by bdfox18doe
We do put generic guide data in, most receivers that have directv do not read it, but take the APG instead. I was told by a leading
STB engineer that this is a DirecTv contractual requirement.

I don't think so. My non-DirecTV HD box has more guide info than my DirecTV HD box.

I tried for months to e-mail changes/corrections. It never would get routed to the correct people. Phone with DirecTV is an even bigger waste of time.

Originally posted by dsinder
They say if I'm getting guide data for some local stations and not others then it's because those stations are not including program data in their broadcast signal.

Haven't checked in in a while. Nice to see the news about WRSP. I checked tonight and am receiving WRSP relatively cleanly from Southwest Champaign using Radio Shack U-75R (15-2160) UHF antenna mounted in attic with a cheapo RS inline 10db preamp. Antenna points almost due West, maybe 5^o N to optimize WCIA. No rotor. This feeds into a MyHD card in my htpc. Signal strength is about 32%-36% (on Fri 8:30pm). This gives clean picture but does give occasional dropouts. In comparison, WCIA is usually about 40%, which is usually enough for consistent picture. WAND is really strong - no problems at all.

So basically WRSP is a go, but it would be nice if they could increase signal strength a smidgeon. Owing to tight space considerations in attic a rotor is not workable.

John

Originally posted by jtv
but it would be nice if they could increase signal strength a smidgeon. Owing to tight space considerations in attic a rotor is not workable.

John

Doesn't work that way, Stations can't arbitrarily increase power based on desire. Besides, our 1 tube is running at a comfortable maximum power, so there is no more available from a practical standpoint. WRSP will be at the current 335kw ERP until the analog feed is discontinued somewhere in the future.

:(

Live in Danvville:

Having VOOM installed on Wednesday with OTA to pick up area stations. Also having rotator installed.

What HDTV stations can I expect to recieve with the right antenna? Also, what HDTV stations are transmitting in this area.

Thanks for your help.

Geoffrey

I'm getting WRSP 55-1 and-2 clearly with few dropouts in Peoria. I'm on the top of a hill using a radio shack "golden U" double bowtie and a Samsung T-160. SS around 36%, and perfectly watchable.
I've never been able to receive WYZZ-DT 28, but then again the microwave oven in my kitchen has more power than their DT transmitter.

I'm getting WRSP-DT with a good strong signal most of the time at night. There are a few drop outs. But during the day the signal strength is much lower with many drop outs and frequent occurances of signal too low to get picture at all.

I'm looking for a way to get WRSP-DT very solidly at night (almost there) and to get signal consitently but with some drop outs during the day. Here is my current configuration:

Sony HD200
Channel master 3018 mounted on a rotor about 12' above the peak of my single story roof which amounts to about 26 feet above the ground. That puts the antenna at about the level of some power lines about 40 feet to the west of the anetenna (towards WRSP).
Channel master 7778 preamp.

Things I'm thinking about doing:

Raise the antenna another 5 feet.

and/or

Replace the CM 3018 with a Winegard PR-9032 or HD-9095 on the rotor
and a HD-4053P for WILL, WILL-DT, and WILL-FM.

Comments or ideas?

Your ideas are just fine for SE Urbana. You'll need all the gain you can get
from that UHF antenna, and the height too.

Also, worry about preamp overload. The 7778 has too much gain for
its own good. It **WILL** overload when WCIA-DT goes full power
unless you tune the direction to a notch.

Doug McDonald

I have ordered a 0.5 dB NF Ch. 44 preamp from Advanced Receiver Research. We shall see if this helps. This will take a while, it's
a special order item, and since it is 50 ohms I will have to change the
antenna feed to match it. The nice things about these preamps is that
they have ideal gain (16 dB) and a really good overload level.

These are expensive, but not hopelessly so ... $110 plus
a wall-wart to power it.

Doug McDonald

jdmcdonald,

Please keep us posted on how that works.

Signal strength for WRSP has actually been all over the map with me.

Initially (last Fri 9pm) I was getting 32% or so. Saturday morning 9am I was getting 75%, and Saturday evening up around 50%. Sunday afternoon was 13% or no signal, Sunday evening around 40-44%. Through all these times WCIA was a consistent 40-44%. Basically anything over 30% is essentially watcheable with only occasional brief dropouts.

As noted above, this is an attic based RS 2160 UHF antenna with 10 db preamp.

John

Originally posted by jtv
Signal strength for WRSP has actually been all over the map with me.

Initially (last Fri 9pm) I was getting 32% or so. Saturday morning 9am I was getting 75%, and Saturday evening up around 50%. Sunday afternoon was 13% or no signal, Sunday evening around 40-44%. Through all these times WCIA was a consistent 40-44%

John

This is exactly what is to be expected. WCIA is a local, well
above the horizon station and should be rock steady. WRSP is
just under the horizon for Champaign and should be expected to
vary, in October, from barely receivable to good signal
strength. In late August or early September you would have found
periods of extremely high signal.

Expect the fluctuations to get less and less as the weather
gets colder ... and to settle to the worst you have seen. Hopefully
it won't get any worse than that. Based on observations of
55 last winter, that's what I expect. Hence, my experiment, to
be reported on, with the "ultimate preamp".

Doug

I decided to try an upgrade on my preamp (RS 15-1170), so I went up to Lowes and picked up a CM Spartan3 3041DSB for $60. This seems to have the same basic specs as the Titan2 7778 but with a cheap plastic housing. Housing doesn't matter to me since mine is mounted in the attic. Anyway it's what Lowes had on hand. It's worth noting that I have about a 120' RG6 cable run from my antenna to receiver.

Tonight's results for signal strength with RS and with new CM are:

Chan ___RS______CM
_3-1 ___44%_____64%
15-1 ___49%_____69%
17-1 ___75%_____75%
23-1 ___53%_____53%
55-1 ___49%_____75%

Nice improvement. Even considering that tonight is a good reception night, I think that with this new preamp, I'm now in pretty good shape. Usually on MyHD card anything over 30-35% is pretty clean.

John

I hope you've at least looked at TitanTV and antennaweb.org.

I'd be real skeptical of any antenna skills of Voom installers at the speed at which Voom has ramped up.

I'm surprised they will even do a rotor. I imagine they will charge you extra for that.

Of course, what do I know? I went to Sears in Litchfield and got "what?" when I asked about Voom last week (day after the launch I think). I politely mentioned the exclusive was only good until January. I guess they might figure out what it is by then.

Originally posted by gels
What HDTV stations can I expect to recieve with the right antenna? Also, what HDTV stations are transmitting in this area.

As a friend told me.."Sorry, Everyone Around here's Really Stupid"

The frustrating thing for me, is that IMHO Sears has one of the best
HD product lines of anyone..

Originally posted by jtv

Tonight's results for signal strength with RS and with new CM are:

Chan ___RS______CM
_3-1 ___44%_____64%
15-1 ___49%_____69%
17-1 ___75%_____75%
23-1 ___53%_____53%
55-1 ___49%_____75%

Nice improvement.

John

Those numbers are incapable of telling how much improvement there is.
If when you switch preamps, and it actually works better (less
breakups, etc), then that is an improvement.


Otherwise, you may just have increased the gain without decreasing
the NF, which is what counts (assuming at least a reasonable gain).
However, the preamp swap you did certainly went from
a poor NF to a better one. By yourself, the only tests you can
make that actually proves an improvement is to insert a
calibrated attenuator between antenna and preamp and see what
attenuation you need for each preamp before breakup happens.
Of course, in this test more attenuation is better.


Doug McDonald

For the first time, tonight my on screen guide (on my Hughes E-86) had the HD emblem on Wcia 3-1 programming. Though the video definately was not High Def. I never have had any "false" indications before on any channel. Any one else get a HD indicator for WCIA 3-1 tonight? :confused:

bdfox18doe or ktFOX55/27,

Very much enjoying the widescreen and 5.1 of the WS. Thanks for getting this up.

I wanted to report that I am getting an occasional breakup. Usually about one every 3 to 5 minutes lasting several seconds. I believe my signal remains strong. It isn't artifacting, it is more of a freeze of video. Most of the times the audio also momentarily drops, but sometimes I think the audio is still received and it is only the video which freezes. After a couple seconds, it picks back up. Almost like a buffer overflow or something. Is anyone else seeing this? Any thoughts?

I'm waiting for the first NFL game in widescreen, but it doesn't look like we get it this week either if I read the schedules correct -- can't understand why the stellar teams of Detroit/Chicago doesn't qualify for one!!! :-)

Ken and I will look at it this morning and see if we can correct the problem.
Thanks for advising us!

Question for Bob Davis:

Are there any estimates of how long it may be before WCCU-DT comes on line? I'm debating whether or not it's worth going to the expense and effort to attempt to get WRSP-DT with a higher degree of reliability.

Thanks.

Dale

Hi Dale-
Sorry to say that we do not have a date at this time as to when WCCU-DT
will be on-air. We don't expect it to be anytime soon.

We are aware of the occasional breakup and parts are already on the way to remedy the problem.

I got my $106 GaAsFET preamp for Ch. 44 and hooked it up this
afternoon while 44 was having breakups, and it helped a lot. It remains
to be seen, of course, whether overall it will really make things
ultra-stable.

I also installed Dolby 5.1 today. Do any of the central IL
stations do it, and if so, what shows should I watch for it on?

Doug McDonald

WRSP automatically passes 5.1 on FOX programming that is provided in 5.1. Currently, only certain NFL games and Nascar feeds are provided in 5.1. There is no listing as to which games are provided in 5.1, we receive an email with details about a week ahead of time. Since I'm now home
for the day, I don't recall which two games this week are being done, but
they are both 1pm games.

Doug: I "think" WAND-DT sometimes puts out a D5.1 sound track. At least MyHD tuner card reports as such and my receiver reports receiving 5.1 over the spdif optical input. There is certainly a different sound coming from the rear speakers. Other channels simply report Stereo sound track. I haven't payed close enough attention to verify if it's real 5.1 or not. Don't remember which if any shows do it regularly, but I have definitely seen it when they do movies.

Edit: dsinder - you could easily be right - mine doesn't distinguish between 4.1 and 5.1 in its display.

John