Just purchased a GWII 50" TV, yay. Also built a high-end multimedia PC to drive the TV, consisting of a Athlon 2100mhz, 512mb RAM, high speed drives, etc, and most of all, a Radeon 8500DV All-In-Wonder Card. Connected the PC to the TV using DVI dual cable. PC / Radeon card work fine on a regular computer monitor by the way. TV now gets detected as a sony plug and play monitor, good so far, resolutions are all off. Downloaded Powerstrip and tried to apply the settings listed in the Tweak PDF, and can't seem to get any of them to apply. Every time I apply a custom setting Powerstrip reverts back to 640x480, tried the suggested starting one as well as the 2 additional custom ones suggested in the tweak manual with no success. Also, did anyone ever find a set of parameters that will actually match the native resolution of the PC?
Any help is much appreciated, I'm a computer systems engineer for a living, the PC part usually doesn't cause me too many problems, but the TV part is somewhat new to me. Can't wait to use my PC as a progressive scan DVD / scalar / TiVO at DVI output... /drool.

Thanks!

Check out this post. I don't use a PC with my set so I can't help you much more than this.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=1859714#post1859714

gqchicago,

make sure to get a connection at any resolution when you connect your pc through dvi to the gwii. Then go to the device manager and change the monitor to Sony GDM-W900 (this will give you a high resolution monitor driver). The easiest way to do this is to go to powerstrip and select change the monitor, then system hardware will come up and then select the device manager and update the driver with the one above. After installation re-start pc so that the monitor gets picked up automatically by powerstrip. Then use any powerstrip settings the ones on those threads or on the thread that UMR pointed out to you. That's it. 1280x720 is the highest resolution that we got so far. To eliminate overscan user UMR's setting on MD1 (see the same post for an example).

I did a little experimenting on verticle size adjsutments based on Steve Martin's comments. He is absolutely correct.

You need to use a test pattern with thin horizontal lines to judge how far to go. I used one of Jim Taylor's test images that has lines spaced one pixel appart for 480p. You can definately see the resolution changing with verticle size.

It turns out I just lucked out and happened to hit the right verticle size without knowing it.

Okay umr, I am going to take your suggestion and do the setup as you have described. Can anyone tell me what a "photographic grey card" is and where I can buy one? Also, is buying a 6500 degree light source as simple as buying a special bulb? If so where can I get one of those?

You need a 6500K Spectrum Bulb Phillips makes one should be able to get one from Home Depot.

If not try a fish store they have lots.

The "photographic" gray cards are available at your better photo supply stores. You can place one in a photo to properly color balance the shot. The best ones to get are made by Kodak.

A good light source is hard to come by. I have an Ideal-Lume from CinemaQuest that I use for this and for back-lighting, but these are not perfect. You might want to try just using the gray card first with indirect daylight.

There are also some bulbs available. What you are looking for is one with a high 'Color Rendering Index' (CRI) and a temperature close to 6500K. I had no luck finding one locally.

Studio and Transmitter techs usually come around to painting their favorite rooms a perfect gray standard and using 6500 light sources !

So does anyone off hand have a paint make and color code to match this standard gray ! I could be wrong, but think I remember the camera studios I toured through during meetings as having gray walls etc there also. I guess I can ask them to match the gray photographic Kodak card at a paint store and be somewhat close to the ball park of it.

Also, does anyone have a recomendation on a fair light meter type - spec we can look for, to do measurements at fair cost and performance needed ?

Originally posted by kbat
...Also, does anyone have a recomendation on a fair light meter type - spec we can look for, to do measurements at fair cost and performance needed ?

I have a AEMC CA813 on order for that purpose myself. It is about $150 and matches the CIE photoptic response. I should have it in hand fairly soon.

Originally posted by kbat
..So does anyone off hand have a paint make and color code to match this standard gray ! I guess I can ask them to match the gray photographic Kodak card...

It is my understanding Kodak takes great care in color balancing this card. Getting a paint to match it exactly may be difficult.

Originally posted by umr
The "photographic" gray cards are available at your better photo supply stores. You can place one in a photo to properly color balance the shot. The best ones to get are made by Kodak.

A good light source is hard to come by. I have an Ideal-Lume from CinemaQuest that I use for this and for back-lighting, but these are not perfect. You might want to try just using the gray card first with indirect daylight.

There are also some bulbs available. What you are looking for is one with a high 'Color Rendering Index' (CRI) and a temperature close to 6500K. I had no luck finding one locally.

Supposedly Westinghouse now makes fluorescent bulbs at 6500K and 98 CRI, which makes them (technically at least) as perfect a bulb as you can get. Angelo Bros., I believe, is the distributor for Westinghouse bulbs (I found that out via a search for Westinghouse bulbs), and they can direct you to a local source for buying or ordering. As I recall, they're a lot cheaper than Ideal-Lume lights -- but you may want to buy Ideal-Lume's set of neutral density filters to reduce the light output by covering the fluorescent fixture.

I haven't gone this route yet -- you'll have to look at the Ideal-Lume site to see what this filters look like -- I think they fit over standard fluorescent fixtures.

Good luck!

Originally posted by eweiss
Supposedly Westinghouse now makes fluorescent bulbs at 6500K and 98 CRI, which makes them (technically at least) as perfect a bulb as you can get. Angelo Bros., I believe, is the distributor for Westinghouse bulbs (I found ...

I don't think so. You might need to spend quite a bit more to get that.

GretagMacbeth Might Be It For $$ (http://www.gretagmacbeth.com/files/products/SPL3.pdf)

I think I have done all of the adjustments now (on one input) and although faces and moderately lit scenes look great I think I may have some problems at the bright end of the spectrum. I am going to go back in and see if I have some clipping (not sure how to check this really).

Also I am unclear on RYR vs RYB and GYR vs GYB. What is the difference? Perhaps I should have switched to a different source (non-testpattern) and turned on all the guns and played. I have my old settings so I can go back. When playing, with only the apropriate guns on, and looking at the color decoder patterns it is very hard to tell the difference. The tweak pdf file is less clear here than on most other topics.

Thanks,
Eric

Here's a new product I seen in my new sssue of widescreen.
very interesting. And been very happy with my GWII.
-Pete

Colorfacts (http://www.colorfacts.com/colorfacts/default.asp)

Originally posted by Dixie_F
I think I have done all of the adjustments now (on one input) and although faces and moderately lit scenes look great I think I may have some problems at the bright end of the spectrum. I am going to go back in and see if I have some clipping (not sure how to check this really).

Also I am unclear on RYR vs RYB and GYR vs GYB. What is the difference? Perhaps I should have switched to a different source (non-testpattern) and turned on all the guns and played. I have my old settings so I can go back. When playing, with only the apropriate guns on, and looking at the color decoder patterns it is very hard to tell the difference. The tweak pdf file is less clear here than on most other topics.

Thanks,
Eric

The best way I have found to check for white "crush" it the THX Optimizer display for contrast. The near white grays should not shift color.

The color decoder is adjusting how intense each color is in itself, white and its complement. You want to balance these out to be equal in the test. I would guess you did not lower picture if you saw no difference for green and blue. This needs to be done to compensate for a bias in the electronics for these colors. This is recommended in the pdf and is discussed earlier in this thread.

Adjusting the color decoder without test patterns is something I could not do if it was very far off.

Quite expensive... Is it worth the money?

Questions regarding the service manual?

1 - I noticed that on pages 22 & 23 on Table 1 for PIC-BOOST2 and under PIC-BOOST3, the tables have column headings BSET:0, BSET:1, BSET:2, and so on...What do these headings mean?

2 - On page 48 under MID1 COM category. The column headings are 1920, and 1440/1840? I think 1920 means 1920x1080? What do the others mean? Is interested that they have chosen these column headings instead of 1080i and 720p. What do 1440/1840 refer to? Any idea? This might give us someway to get a resolution that will fit into the DHPH, DVPH, etc..?

Do you have a link to a description of how to adjust the color decoder? I used the test pattern with 3 color bars (sets of blocks) and percentages next to them. But I was unclear on when to adjust RYR and when to adjust RYB. I did manage to get all 3 colors very close to 0%. However, I am pretty sure I didn't do it quite correct.

Thanks again,
Eric Fesler

Originally posted by Dixie_F
Do you have a link to a description of how to adjust the color decoder? I used the test pattern with 3 color bars (sets of blocks) and percentages next to them. But I was unclear on when to adjust RYR and when to adjust RYB. I did manage to get all 3 colors very close to 0%. However, I am pretty sure I didn't do it quite correct.

Thanks again,
Eric Fesler

That is the wrong display to use.

Go to the standard color bars under color adjustment on Avia. Do not use the filters for green or red if you want it to be accurate. It is pretty obvious once you are on the correct display.

Here are some readings from my AEMC CA813 lightmeter for those who might have one. These are gray scale readings through Avia filters.

Avia 80 IRE Gray Window

White 102 lux
Blue 0.91 lux
Red 8.22 lux
Green 13.3 lux

motjes2,

Thanks for updating the files.:) I modified the link on the first post in this thread. It looks like the GWII is now very good as a Windows PC monitor. The text in your pictures looked sharper than I thought it might.

UMR, it is very good indeed. I think a lot more could be accomplished and it just a matter of time...

Sorry, sorry, sorry. but here is the new version with all the files together. I was having problems compressing it and I finally figured out what I was doing wrong. I will delete the above posts...

This is version 4.3, it contains an update provided by UMR. It also contains information on how to connect your HTPC to the GWII. If you have connected your HTPC and would like to add information to the file let me know. I only added the information for the 60" and I have no information on the 50".

Finally, here it is...

Update: See Page 28 for a new update v4.5.

UMR,

Here is some information that I found while looking information about the DVI circuitry.

This site has a lot of IC chips and other sony parts datasheet.

http://www.sony.co.jp/~semicon/english/90230.html

CXA2069Q (http://www.sony.co.jp/~semicon/english/img/sonyde01/a6801988.pdf)

This is an example of the Chip CXA2069Q use in the BLOCK DIAGRAM (7). The part number is IC2002. Video 1 - 6 plus sound goes through this chip. DVI-video goes through another path.

I do not know if you have this already but here it is anyway.

Many people have asked for more information on setting your color decoder so here is my latest.

I have been playing with my new light meter, Avia and the color decoder settings for my GWII. I was using the light meter to try and get a more accurate color decoder setting. My changes from these measurements are:

Reduced the color setting by 2 (UCOL 25) and modifed the color decoder as follows:
RYR = 6
RYB = 14
GYR = 13
GYB = 3


I did this by using my filters, the meter and known information about Avia filters, GWII and color bars. This information consists of:
The red and blue filters with Avia are good enough to set the decoder
The green Avia filter is too poor to use
The human eye is not the best way to measure light intensity
The GWII is not completely even in brightness across the display
Each of the color bars has known properties with respect to brightness
The GWII does some strange bias thing when you turn the panels off


To deal with the screen shifting intensity across it I used one of the special Avia color bar patterns that has a 77 IRE white bar along the bottom of the screen.

I used the blue filter to set the adjustments for blue. The filters were always between the light meter and the screen with the sensor pressed up to the screen. I then set the level of blue to match the level of blue in white with the COLOR adjustment. I then adjusted HUE by measuring the level of blue in cyan and magenta and matched them to the level of blue in white. Having the white bar directly below the color bar helped minimize the shift in brightness caused by a change in position.

Next, I used the red filter to set the color decoder for red. I adjusted RYR (red level) by setting the red bar intensity to match the white bar with the red filter. I then adjusted RYB by setting the red level in yellow and magenta to match that in white.

Green required a different method because the color filters are inadequate for that primary. The color bars should follow the following intensity pattern for NTSC relative to white:
White 1.0
Yellow 0.866
Cyan 0.701
Green 0.587
Magenta 0.413
Red 0.299
Blue 0.114


HD should follow the following pattern if you had a test pattern:


White 1.0
Yellow 0.9279
Cyan 0.7875
Green 0.7154
Magenta 0.2846
Red 0.2125
Blue 0.0721


Using this information I set the level of green to match its ratio to white without any filter (0.587) using GYR. I then set the level of yellow and cyan to match their ratios to white (0.866 & 0.701) using GYB. I also measured all of the levels relative to white without filters in the end. The one with the greatest error was cyan.

The lightmeter I used for this was an AEMC CA813. This meter has an error rating of +-3% of the reading and follows the CIE photoptic response.

Bill Cushman's help on this was invaluable.

UMR (or others):

How do I best use AVIA to adjust sharpness after implementing both user and service adjustments?

1. I've re-read this thread and best advice seems to center on minimizing white "blooming" around horizontal/vertical lines on the AVIA sharpness screen. I'm having trouble getting it right? Do I go from low sharpness to high? (note that white appears alongside the bars at too low a setting) Or from high to low?

2. Are there other parts of the sharpness screen that would help? (AVIA suggests constant gray level across all frequency bars -- to my eye that exists across a broad range of sharpness settings)

3. How do I best use other screens (such as TVL 200) that you reference?

Probably all rookie issues. Picture already looks great with all your help.
Thanks.

Very interesting. A few days ago I readjusted my color decoder settings using the AVIA filters and the best judgments of my wife and daughter (because I am red-green color blind). The settings we ended up with were:

UCOL 25

RYR 7
RYB 14
GYR 13
GYB 4

I decided to stick with these values even though they were different. UMR's post today with essentially the same values gives me some confidence we are on the right track.

I do have a question. Some yellows and greens look extremely vivid....almost fluorescent. While quite pleasant...I can't decide if it's entirely accurate. Which adjustment is likely to tone these down a touch.

Too bad Sony doesn't use these settings from the factory....i think they would sell a lot more sets!!!!!

I've re-read this thread and best advice seems to center on minimizing white "blooming" around horizontal/vertical lines on the AVIA sharpness screen. I'm having trouble getting it right? Do I go from low sharpness to high? (note that white appears alongside the bars at too low a setting) Or from high to low?

I would go from low to high and stop when the vertical and horizontal lines are the same width.

Are there other parts of the sharpness screen that would help? (AVIA suggests constant gray level across all frequency bars -- to my eye that exists across a broad range of sharpness settings)

I don't use it for anything else, but others might.


How do I best use other screens (such as TVL 200) that you reference?

That display is useful for seeing if any changes are helping or hurting resolution. These would include DRC, sharpness, service menu edge enhancement and geometry changes. That display can also be used to set the overscan for 4:3 mode.

Originally posted by Harry Brandt
[B...I decided to stick with these values even though they were different. UMR's post today with essentially the same values gives me some confidence we are on the right track.

I do have a question. Some yellows and greens look extremely vivid....almost fluorescent. While quite pleasant...I can't decide if it's entirely accurate. Which adjustment is likely to tone these down a touch.
.. [/B]

You should always use the values you get by calibrating your set.

Increasing GYR, GYB and decreasing UCOL wiil reduce yellow and green.

Originally posted by umr
You should always use the values you get by calibrating your set.

Increasing GYR, GYB and decreasing UCOL wiil reduce yellow and green.


Here's a question: What is the relationship between UCOL and the color adjustment in the user menu. Do they do essentially the same thing??

Originally posted by Harry Brandt
Here's a question: What is the relationship between UCOL and the color adjustment in the user menu. Do they do essentially the same thing??

UCOL is the user menu value for that input after you hit the reset button. There are several ways to change the color and hue settings.

Edit: I had this wrong earlier.

An update from my experience. Having tried unsuccessfully to get the PC connected to the GWII (I have a 50") using the above suggestions I was finally able (through trial and error) to get it to work. The suggested monitor driver seems to be a key determinant in getting the PC to dislpay on the Sony. My configuration, 50" GWii, PC running Windows XP SP2 and ALL available updates, ATI Radeon 8500DV with dual DVI cable, latest 3.1 ATI Catalyst Drivers. PC is a brand new clone, AMD Athlon 2100mhz, 512mb DDR RAM, 80gb Maxtor 7200rpm hard drive w/8mb cache. When I applied the suggested Sony Monitor to windows, I could not get the card in conjunction with Powerstrip to display any other resolutions. It would seem to take the resolution, ask to reboot, then come up blank. Only thing I could do at this point is hook the PC back up to a regular computer monitor and then I could get video going again and play some more. I will look later and let you all know which monitor driver we finally got to work. So far I've only written a powerstrip driver / resolution for 1184x666, will keep trying some of the other suggested ones and report back, as well as letting you all know what monitor driver DID actually work in my case, I've been stuck on this for about a week now.

God, either I must be dumb or Sony arranged for my set not to be calibrated! I've successfully keyed in the required starting sequence and got the green service manual on my 50XBR800' screen and also played the Avia DVD, but I don't see how any calibrations can be made. There are no adjustment bars on the screen that you could use to make adjustments. How do you make the adjustments as I don't even see any menus ?

Also I'm beginning to think that maybe I should have waited until I viewed the GWII before buying the Avia DVD for the PQ on my set is such that I don't think you could possibly improve it in either SD or HD. I use the setting "vivid", but I have been told that setting will shorten the life of the lamp, true or false ?

Originally posted by jgvp
God, either I must be dumb or Sony arranged for my set not to be calibrated! I've successfully keyed in the required starting sequence and got the green service manual on my 50XBR800' screen and also played the Avia DVD, but I don't see how any calibrations can be made. There are no adjustment bars on the screen that you could use to make adjustments. How do you make the adjustments as I don't even see any menus ?

Also I'm beginning to think that maybe I should have waited until I viewed the GWII before buying the Avia DVD for the PQ on my set is such that I don't think you could possibly improve it in either SD or HD. I use the setting "vivid", but I have been told that setting will shorten the life of the lamp, true or false ?

"Vivid" will not shorten the life of the lamp.

There are not bars in the "service mode" only numbers. You must go the the correct "Category" (the upper left text) and change the proper "Item's" (the lower left text and first number on the top from the left) "Data" value (the second number from the left on the top). You should not be in the "service mode" if this does not make any sense.

Originally posted by gqchicago
An update from my experience. Having tried unsuccessfully to get the PC connected to the GWII (I have a 50") using the above suggestions I was finally able (through trial and error) to get it to work. The suggested monitor driver seems to be a key determinant in getting the PC to dislpay on the Sony. My configuration, 50" GWii, PC running Windows XP SP2 and ALL available updates, ATI Radeon 8500DV with dual DVI cable, latest 3.1 ATI Catalyst Drivers. PC is a brand new clone, AMD Athlon 2100mhz, 512mb DDR RAM, 80gb Maxtor 7200rpm hard drive w/8mb cache. When I applied the suggested Sony Monitor to windows, I could not get the card in conjunction with Powerstrip to display any other resolutions. It would seem to take the resolution, ask to reboot, then come up blank. Only thing I could do at this point is hook the PC back up to a regular computer monitor and then I could get video going again and play some more. I will look later and let you all know which monitor driver we finally got to work. So far I've only written a powerstrip driver / resolution for 1184x666, will keep trying some of the other suggested ones and report back, as well as letting you all know what monitor driver DID actually work in my case, I've been stuck on this for about a week now.

Did you try the powerstrip settings posted in the GWII Tweaks v4.3 File? Also I have posted a new resolution powerstrip 1368x768 on this thread...

60 XBR PICS (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=208574&perpage=20&pagenumber=10)

I will be trynig the 4.3 tweaks shortly, hadn't yet since the document wasn't posted as of my original posting. I had tried many different settings (almost all of the ones I found on this thread however). I couldn't get any setting to take effect, when I applied them in powerstrip the screen would go blank and stay that way. The key seems to be the monitor driver selected causing problems, once I changed that I was able to apply the powerstrip settings. I am confident that I will now be able to apply the different resolutions / settings in the 4.3 tweak manual, just wanted to let people know that the TV driver listed (Sony GDM-W900), caused nothing but problems in my particular scenario. At work now, I will check which one I used when I get home this evening and post an update.

Originally posted by gqchicago
I will be trynig the 4.3 tweaks shortly, hadn't yet since the document wasn't posted as of my original posting. I had tried many different settings (almost all of the ones I found on this thread however). I couldn't get any setting to take effect, when I applied them in powerstrip the screen would go blank and stay that way. The key seems to be the monitor driver selected causing problems, once I changed that I was able to apply the powerstrip settings. I am confident that I will now be able to apply the different resolutions / settings in the 4.3 tweak manual, just wanted to let people know that the TV driver listed (Sony GDM-W900), caused nothing but problems in my particular scenario. At work now, I will check which one I used when I get home this evening and post an update.

What driver did you end up using? The Sony GDM-W900 worked fine with my 9000 pro card. Please post the driver you used.

My Pioneer Elite 47a DVD player can set black either at 0 or 7.5 IRE. I've had it set at 0 so far. Anybody have any recommendations regarding this in relation to the settings of GWII??

I had originally been using the drivers that came for the suggested Sony driver/TV with W2K Professional. Went to Sony's website and downloaded a driver for the Sony GDM-FW900. Driver date 10/22/2001 Driver Version 2.0.0.0 Manufacturer: Sony (NOT Microsoft).

Originally posted by Harry Brandt
My Pioneer Elite 47a DVD player can set black either at 0 or 7.5 IRE. I've had it set at 0 so far. Anybody have any recommendations regarding this in relation to the settings of GWII??

My DVD-XP30 outputs 0 IRE on progressive independent of this setting. I would use 0 IRE to try and improve the A/D conversion in the TV, but any improvement will be slight. 0 IRE is also used by HD, but other NTSC sources will generally be 7.5 IRE.

UMR --

Thanks for your response regarding sharpness and AVIA. I just tried your recommended approach and I still don't get it. The horizontal and vertical black lines appear equal in width across virtually the full range of sharpness settings. The only thing that changes is is a white "halo" around the vertical black lines that is minimized at a setting of 18. I am sure this is a rookie mistake but would appreciate any additional advice.

Thanks.

I don't know what else to say. When I go from 1 t0 63 the vertical lines get thicker on my set. You need to look at where they cross near the middle. I would just use my setting if you can't see it. That should be close.

Originally posted by gqchicago
I had originally been using the drivers that came for the suggested Sony driver/TV with W2K Professional. Went to Sony's website and downloaded a driver for the Sony GDM-FW900. Driver date 10/22/2001 Driver Version 2.0.0.0 Manufacturer: Sony (NOT Microsoft).

I tried to download the driver from SONY but the web site was having problems. I did try the Sony GDM-FW900 (microsoft) and it worked with no problems. If you get your configuration working at 1368x768 as I posted before can you please post the following to update the file:

(1) Graphic Card used, Memory and Catalyst Version
(2) Type of DVI Cable: Singel or Double Link
(3)OS, RAM, CPU Speed, Monitor Driver and Powerstrip version.

This way we can document your configuration so that others have the information. Thanks... I will be posting the powerstrip setting for 1368x768 today on a new version of the GWXBR Tweaks file. You may also visit this thread to get it.

60 XBR PICS (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=208574)

This is the new GWXBR Tweaks v4.5 file. This version has the following updates/changes/additions:

1 - Under GWXBR Tweaks, the visual & lightmeter procedures for Color Decoder were added by UMR.

2 - Under the HTPC Connection:

(a) the Configuration tables were combined and re-arranged for both models.
(b) added the 1368x768 resolution including Powerstrip Timing Parameters.
(c) added two new sections under PROCEDURE (SERVICE MENU and UNLOCKING TASKBAR).
(d) added a section on how to use the HOT KEY MANAGEMENT in powestrip to change resolutions.

IMPORTANT: DO NOT USE THE KEYBOARD TO ENTER THE POWERSTRIP TIMING PARAMETERS; INSTEAD USE THE COPY FUNCTION (FROM THE PROGRAM YOU ARE COPYING THE PARAMETERS FROM) AND THEN USE THE PASTE FUNCTION IN POWERSTRIP.

I believe I mentioned this but I did not make it a must. It is a must to copy and paste the powerstrip timing parameters. Use the Paste function on powerstrip. DO NOT USE THE KEYBOARD TO COPY THEM. The vertical refresh rate is not really 58 as you see it in the post. When you enter them in powerstrip by using the paste function, you will see that the vertical refresh rate is greater than 58 but never 59.

hmm, I'm not real familiar with pdf tricks, so in case others are wondering the same thing, here goes my pdf question. Better a dumb question than none !

On the threads listing of the "gwxbr tweaks.pdf" near the end of pdf pages 45 to 49, how do I easily get to these links ? The "hand" won't click it to a new window. Is there a property I need to set in the browser or Acrobat reader ? Or - I guess I can type in the post title and use the avs search window.

PS: Thankyou umr, motjes2 & all others on your most excellent GWII data compiling :-)

Now if only I can find a Canadian avia source. I assume the avia filters don't come with the avia DVD as a complete kit. May have to just order direct from US I guess. I thought I heard Sony had a reference service calibration DVD, but maybe this is not correct.

Thanks for your below reply motjes2, understandable :-)

Maybe also there are two options if felt warranted:
1) The links could be put into a post here with avs somewhere near the start perhaps or a merged GWII threads post ? (perhaps easiest)
2) Maybe a second pdf file with links only ?

Also thanks take_heed, (below) I'm going to get it and a light meter !

Right now, I do not think there is a way to do it from that page. I had to unable it because it was taking too much bites to leave the links enabled. I am stilll working on this -- activating the links. Right now, I guess you will need to search for the title of the thread using the search function at avsforum or type the entire thread. I know it's not great but it is the contraint that we have on posting no more thant 500kb.

Originally posted by kbat
...Now if only I can find a Canadian avia source. I assume the avia filters don't come with the avia DVD as a complete kit. May have to just order direct from US I guess....

That is one of the great things about Avia. The DVD comes with the filters. Unfortunately, the green filter is of little practical value.

umr

I was wondering is there a way to center a image per input on the GWII. I am able to center my DVD input using the THX optimizer and the service menu but when I play PS2 games out of my other component input the image in full mode is shifted a little to the right. There is a tiny black strip on the left side of the screen. When I go into the service menu to center the PS2 image the DVD image becomes un-centered. I would also like to thank you for all the time and effort you put into the pdf file without it I would not be able to get sweet PQ for my new 50" GWII.

I would see if my DVD player allowed me to adjust the image position. If you centered it for the PS2 you might be able to center the player using its adjustments. The only other choice I know of would be to get a new player that did this or an external scaler.

kbat,

re: Canadian source for Avia

I got the Avia disk from amazon.ca

I received my "Kodak Color Print Viewing Filter Kit" a few days ago. I have been experimenting with different filters. My observations are:

The best filter in the kit to correct black to near D6500 on my set appears to be a CC20R
A 10-20% boost in contrast appears possible with a CC20R
The maximum light level on my set dropped about 30% to 27 f-L with this filter because I was not able to raise the light output on green very much. This also limited the contrast ratio improvement on my set.
The minimum light level dropped about 40% with a CC20R
The improvement in color accuracy of 0-10% level blacks was very noticable
The set is easier to watch in a dark room without 0-10% level blacks shifting strongly to blue and the minimum light level being lowered dramatically


I ordered a Lee 4x4" CC25R resin filter from B&H to attempt this correction. They did not have a CC20R in stock. I will post more information once I have attempted to install it.

Sweet, keep us up to date. Did they give you an ETA on that filter?

I wish there was a way to see the before and after. BTW, what's a filter like this cost? Was there a CC30R with the kit that recieved from Kodak? If so, did you try that and was it too drastic (dark)? My assumption (on what little I know about this) is that you took a risk on the CC25R because it was in stock and you feel hopeful that there is maybe even a wee bit more to gain and if not you'll go with the CC20R that Lee has when it's back in stock?

Thanks umr!

Originally posted by Ten 99
Sweet, keep us up to date. Did they give you an ETA on that filter?

I wish there was a way to see the before and after. BTW, what's a filter like this cost? Was there a CC30R with the kit that recieved from Kodak? If so, did you try that and was it too drastic (dark)? My assumption (on what little I know about this) is that you took a risk on the CC25R because it was in stock and you feel hopeful that there is maybe even a wee bit more to gain and if not you'll go with the CC20R that Lee has when it's back in stock?

Thanks umr!

I don't have an ETA, but I am guessing the middle of this week.

A Lee filter cost me about $60 delivered from B&H.

The kit came with a 40, 20 and 10 for each color so I did not get to try a CC30R. I doubt the CC25R will be too dark, but if it is I would go with the CC20R later. I was actually not looking too much at how dark it is, but instead the color of black. The CC40R was definitely too red on black for me without any additional gain in contrast. The CC20R was about right. I think the CC25R could be too red, but I will not know until I get a chance to look through it.

The CDLY parameter under PIC-BOOST3 does not affect chroma delay for progressive inputs. I found a new parameter that can be used with care for progressive inputs.

DYCD under category MID1 changes the chroma delay for this circuit. Unfortunately it changes the YC delay for ALL inputs with a single parameter. The manual indicates otherwise, but it appears to be incorrect. This limits its usefulness, but I was able to improve my DVD image slightly with this while not noticeably impacting the others.

Originally posted by umr
This limits its usefulness, but I was able to improve my DVD image slightly with this while not noticeably impacting the others.

Umr,

can you give more details on the improvements made (i.e., before & after details)? Are you using video 5 0r 6? So, if you change the DYCD under category MID1, this change will be reflected on all inputs video 1 - 7 or just the components video 5 - 6?

Originally posted by motjes2
Umr,

can you give more details on the improvements made (i.e., before & after details)? Are you using video 5 0r 6? So, if you change the DYCD under category MID1, this change will be reflected on all inputs video 1 - 7 or just the components video 5 - 6?

My DVD image is slightly sharper on excellent transfers with the blue much closer to zero error than -0.07 on Avia's YC Delay test pattern. The green and red are not quite as close to zero, but they are not bad. This change is not big for my DVD-XP30, but it is noticeable. I am using Video 5 for my player.

Yes, as I said it affects ALL inputs Video 1-7. You may need to revisit CDLY when you change this item and other devices on Video 5-7 could be negatively impacted.

Originally posted by umr
My DVD image is slightly sharper on excellent transfers with the blue much closer to zero error than -0.07 on Avia's YC Delay test pattern. The green and red are not quite as close to zero, but they are not bad. This change is not big for my DVD-XP30, but it is noticeable. I am using Video 5 for my player.

Yes, as I said it affects ALL inputs Video 1-7. You may need to revisit CDLY when you change this item and other devices on Video 5-7 could be negatively impacted.

This is interested UMR. Did you have to re-tweak any of your inputs once you made a change to DYCD under category MID1? Can you quantify the negative impact on your other video source (the one's that you are using)?


P.S. I am not trying to be a pain by asking these questions, but rather to get an idea of the impact of changing this category.

I did not have to adjust any other inputs. I can not quantify the improvement/degradation outside of my DVD input. I would say from a qualitative standpoint I did not see a difference on the other inputs, but I only went from 0 to 1 on DYCD. You could easily see changes much greater than that.

Umr,

Maybe this has been stated before. Is there a way to know how many hours of life remains in the lamp? I can't see anything in the service manual that states this. Only when it is already about to expire with the blinking front light.

Originally posted by umr
I received my "Kodak Color Print Viewing Filter Kit" a few days ago. I have been experimenting with different filters. My observations are:

The best filter in the kit to correct black to near D6500 on my set appears to be a CC20R
A 10-20% boost in contrast appears possible with a CC20R
The maximum light level on my set dropped about 30% to 27 f-L with this filter because I was not able to raise the light output on green very much. This also limited the contrast ratio improvement on my set.
The minimum light level dropped about 40% with a CC20R
The improvement in color accuracy of 0-10% level blacks was very noticable
The set is easier to watch in a dark room without 0-10% level blacks shifting strongly to blue and the minimum light level being lowered dramatically


I ordered a Lee 4x4" CC25R resin filter from B&H to attempt this correction. They did not have a CC20R in stock. I will post more information once I have attempted to install it.

I've been following the filter thread with interest. Could you explain the process of installing the filter, assuming you find one that helps significantly. Is it simple or complicated??

Originally posted by motjes2
Umr,

Maybe this has been stated before. Is there a way to know how many hours of life remains in the lamp? I can't see anything in the service manual that states this. Only when it is already about to expire with the blinking front light.


Motjes,



It is under Option-E


Lamp Time
Temp

And gives you some more info on pic settings etc.

Is there any chance of installing the filter in lamp compartment somehow rather than ripping the TV apart? Seems like the filter is a good thing but I'm not sure I'd have the guts to install it otherwise. I suppose sony doesn't do this by default because it would decrease the brightness of the tv.

Originally posted by Harry Brandt
I've been following the filter thread with interest. Could you explain the process of installing the filter, assuming you find one that helps significantly. Is it simple or complicated??

There is no doubt that the CC20R helps the PQ significantly. It is just a matter of trying to fit it.

My plan is to take the screen/mirror assembly off and fasten the filter above the lens. Assuming a 4"x4" filter is big enough that it can physically be accommodated, I plan on attaching some legs onto the filter. These should slide over the outside of the lens while maintaining its position slightly ~1/8-1/4"" above the apex of the lens.

It might be possible to fit this without removing the screen/mirror assembly once I have made measurements. Access from the the center panel might be sufficient to accomplish this.

My operation will require at least two people and probably three. I guess that qualifies as complicated.

Originally posted by Scott Krotz
Is there any chance of installing the filter in lamp compartment somehow rather than ripping the TV apart? ...

No chance. :(

Firstoff, thanks again to umr and motjes2 for helping us all out with this tweaking info and for maintaining the pdf!

I followed the instructions in the PDF for connecting my GWII to my PC, and it appeared to work fine right from the start.

HOWEVER, it only works for basic use of the computer -- I cannot get any DVDs to play right, nor can I get any games to work.

My specs: P4 2Ghz, 1 gig RAM, WinXP Pro w/SP1, ATI Radeon 9700 connected via DVI cable, running at 1280x720 (also had same issues at 1360x720), with monitor driver of Sony GDM-W900

I have 2 different programs for playing DVDs on my computer. The first is PowerDVD, which shipped w/my PC. The second is InterActual, which I think came with the Radeon 9700.

NEITHER of them can successfully play a DVD. The image that appears where the DVD menu should be is a garbled pixelated mess in bright pink, green, and white. Furthermore, leaving this up on the screen for any period of time causes my PC to reboot. BTW, I've tried lowering the color depth to only 16 bit, but it didn't make a difference.

I'm so bummed, b/c I've read through some of the threads and everyone seems to say that the video from DVDs through PC is striking, and much better than DVD thru Xbox (which is what I'm using now).

I also tried to play a number of games, and all I get is a black screen, or the PC crashes.

So as it stands now, I can only use my PC on my fabulous 60" GWII for web surfing, word processing, etc, but not for any of the things that I actually want to do (gaming and DVDs!)

Can anyone help me out with what might be going wrong here?

turtlebird,

congratulations in getting your HTPC and the GWII connected. Welcome to the club. Regarding your DVD player problem. I have used both powerdvd and windvd without any problems to play DVDs. Have you tried to uninstall/reinstall your powerdvd?

PC games: I have not tried this myself but I have heard that games pretty much depend on the resolution that you are running. First, find out what is the resolution that the PC games are compatible. I will try to install some of my son's games to see how it works.

turtlebird,

here is more information on PC games.

furiousry posted pics of PC game at another thread:

2/4/03: furiousry posted some battlefield 1942 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=208574&perpage=20&pagenumber=7) running on his 50" gwII, through DVI at 1280x720 on Page 7.

Somebody asked him on this thread how he got it to work and he suggested to look a this other thread:

thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1728713&highlight=battlefield+1942#post1728713)


Good luck and report any successes or failures...

Thanks motjes2!!!

I'm not sure where my PowerDVD install disc is at the moment, so I downloaded and installed the WinDVD Platinum trial. IT WORKS!!!!! :)

I will check out that other thread re: gaming...hopefully it'll help! I'll report back here with my success rate..

OK - so I'm working my way through that thread, which seems to be about which games work in custom resolutions. Other games seem to need standard resolutions to work.

There is a mention in the thread regarding standard Windows resolutions at HDTV timings, but the link to that thread is broken. I tried searching AVS forum to find the thread that discusses this, but had no luck.

I tried to figure it out myself, by copying the powerstrip timings for 1184x666 into notepad, replacing each 1184 with 800 and each 666 with 600, and then pasting that into powerstrip, but that didn't work.

Is there a way to get standard resolutions such as 800x600 or 1024x768 working with the GWII?

THANKS!

turtlebird,

Glad to hear that your dvd is working. Here's another site that have game pc resolution information.

http://www.digitalconnection.com/Support/cliffnotes_17.htm

Also, check the HTPC forum FAQ. There's so much information there...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31225


Good luck...

I have good news and bad news.

The bad news is I received my filter and it is the wrong one. I got a CC2.5R instead of a CC25R.

The good news is I found a source for a CC20R at Adorama.

The bad news is it will be another two weeks.

I also did a little more snooping in my TV from the front access area. I was able to block the entire light beam with a 4"x4" peace of paper. This means my 4"x4" CC20R should fit.:) I did notice that it was easy to get a bright reflection near the lens from this paper at the bottom of the screen. Placement of the filter will need to prevent this. I also discovered that the 4"x4" filter will not fit though this hole. This means the top will need to be removed to add this tweak.

I also peaked around with an inspection mirror that I have. It looks like there is quite a bit of gray colored plastic on the bottom of the screen/mirror assembly. This seems like a prime candidate for something like Duvetyne or black paint. I don't want to introduce something though that will end up on the LCD panel in the end though. We need something that is not going to flake or generate fibers to do this right.

I also discovered that the fan under the lens is sucking air into the optical block to cool it.

UMR:

Any thoughts about this?? I was adjusting MID1 DHPH to center the horizontal image. I started at 131...and as I moved upward moving the image from left to right....as the value crossed 139 to 140 there was a notable increase in brightness of perhaps 20%. Any ideas why moving the image across a specific point would lead to an abrupt increase in brightness?

Harry

Originally posted by Harry Brandt
UMR:

Any thoughts about this?? I was adjusting MID1 DHPH to center the horizontal image. I started at 131...and as I moved upward moving the image from left to right....as the value crossed 139 to 140 there was a notable increase in brightness of perhaps 20%. Any ideas why moving the image across a specific point would lead to an abrupt increase in brightness?

Harry

I have not seen this, but if it did happen you would need to calibrate picture and brightness again. I have no idea why this would happen.

UMR :-) re

"I also peaked around with an inspection mirror that I have. It looks like there is quite a bit of gray colored plastic on the bottom of the screen/mirror assembly. This seems like a prime candidate for something like Duvetyne or black paint. I don't want to introduce something though that will end up on the LCD panel in the end though. We need something that is not going to flake or generate fibers to do this right.

Thought this worth mentioning.
We used to utilize a nice anti-reflective Black Felt in an optical laser scanner for Las Vegas Mining shows to get the ambient light reflections (in the show area) down to black area. The demo showed the use of optically sensing of rock material reflections (while in air flight) when thrown at 3 yards per second (or so) in a sheet layer with gravity destination to conveyors. The processor determined from video the positions/ feature criteria acceptance and firing of high speed - high pressure air valves (they were very fast on/off) to separate good/bad material from the main stream to a second trajectory - conveyor destination. Although the goal was to reduce only the ambient show room light reflection affects, to a fair degree degree the Black Felt also aided to reduce the laser's surounding beam light imperfections (main beam spot size was about 1/8 th inch OD with some beam reflection around it). The felt was used to cover the scanner's interior which was painted black in the first place but not as effective as the Black felt - I always thought that was interesting.

It worked well and had an optional peel back adhesive. Not much of the adhesive would need to be removed. I wonder if this type of anti reflective Black felt can be sourced on "Internet searches" (will try when I get a chance - science related sources) for testing on the direction you mention to "affect of reducing interior ambient reflections. Odd that Sony wouldn't have put more thought into the ambient interior reflections. I guess there will be a few alternatives also to Black felt also - like Duvetyne.

I wonder if there is a air filter in the fan ? Not likely. Clean, filtered, positive air pressure - blown in - would perhaps be best logic so as to not suck in dust / particles from cracks if operating in the reverse with filter.

Sure glad you & others have time for these interesting improvements for viewing and CPU interfacing.

Almost got my 2nd TV stand done - 6 shelfs under neath (was 4) about 1" higher. The old one will become a useable table !

I wonder if there is a air filter in the fan ? Not likely. Clean, filtered, positive air pressure - blown in - would perhaps be best logic so as to not suck in dust / particles from cracks if operating in the reverse with filter.

I believe the air is being filtered through the woofers on the back of the screen. Sony appears to have the screen sealed very well to prevent dust from sneaking in. There design also give dust a chance to settle before it gets to the fan if it makes it into the set. The interior of my TV was very clean unlike the reports of even new Samsung owners. The air flow through the fan is very low.

Hi

I am interested in GWII 60. My friend has one but has not applied the tweaks. Dvds on his set have ghosting around text and like a ring or ghost around images and faces were slightly pasty. Hd had some artifacts. 4:3 digital ota tv had slightly bowed sides. The only review of this set that I could find was on CNET and that review indicated that pq wasn't as good as crt based sets. My question is will the tweaks eliminate these problems

Bernie

They will fix everything, but the bowed 4:3 image if you do it right. You might want to check the bowing with something straight. My 50" bows very little in 4:3. Most of what I see is actually an optical illusion on bowing.

I read a friend's Jan/02 magazine article on DLP systems review. It indicated the manufacture increased contrast ratio from 500 to 1000 by coating the main DLP chip (under the DLP mirrors) black instead of the as made finish. So it would seem interior cabinet reflection reduction would be worth looking into for some improvement.

Question about the ATI 9700. Do you people that have the ATI 9700 know if the card was MADE by ATI? Most ATI 9700s are actually made by other companies. If it is made by ATI the box will say: "Built By ATI" in the upper right corner.

I'm asking because I have tried ALL the custom resolutions and have only been able to get 640x480 to work with my PC. I am using a DVI cable with XP and ATI 9700 Pro. I'm spent on this issue. Mine is built by ATI and obviously does not work in higher resolutions.

Regards,
ASUS

Originally posted by ASUS
Question about the ATI 9700. Do you people that have the ATI 9700 know if the card was MADE by ATI? Most ATI 9700s are actually made by other companies. If it is made by ATI the box will say: "Built By ATI" in the upper right corner.

I'm asking because I have tried ALL the custom resolutions and have only been able to get 640x480 to work with my PC. I am using a DVI cable with XP and ATI 9700 Pro. I'm spent on this issue. Mine is built by ATI and obviously does not work in higher resolutions.

Regards,
ASUS

I am quite surprised that you are still having problems connecting. There are fellows that have the same configuration as you do and had no problems connecting at higher resolutions than 640x480. I remember that your problem was basically having powestrip recognize the ATI driver of the 9700. Is this correct? I suggested last time to uninstall/re-install the ATI card and powerstrip. Just to start all over. I guess you have done this. If this is the case I can only suggest you to get another card. There might be something wrong with the one you have. Do you have another pc where you might test the 9700?

Has anybody been able to get an NVidia GeForce TI-4200 to work with the GWII? If so, what was the highest resolution obtained? It seems most folks are using older Radeons or the 9700 but I don't remember seeing anybody talk about the 4200. Also, are the PowerStrip settings the same regardless of the video card used? Yes, I'm new to this and no, I have no idea what I'm doing.

Hi,

i'm a total noob, and need a few answers before i can justify buying one of these suckers. my questions reveal at best total ignorance and at worst total stupidity, please for give.

1. is this tv HDTV ready or HDTV capable?ie, do i have to spend another several hundred dollars to get this thing going on hd signal?

2. i've heard people mention that sports, i love sunday ticket myself, can be unwatchable, is this true? i can't imagine spending 3k + and having a poor sports watching experience. Can the tweakage that umr suggests fix this? i was kind of expecting to be able to see blades of grass on the field and every jersey name in the huddle.

3. is the gw1 also called the xf-50xbr800 or does it have another code? I only ask this amazingly stupid question because i see a couple online retailers selling it for under 3200 and I was wondering if it was the same thing.

4. i use a standard cable feed for my regular channels (not even what my provider (cox) calls its digital cable, should i upgrade and if not will my picture look crappy? I have a 4 year old 32in xbr right now, will this 50 inch look comparable?

please help a dummy out and answer some of these questions. anyone feel free to chime in. it will really help me decide to spend the big bucks on this sucker

thanks

stonebones

Stonebones-

I'm new to all of this as well but I do have a few answers for you.

1- The GWII requires a separate HDTV decoder. Samsung and Zenith make over the air (OTA) only decoders (also known as Set Top Boxes - STB's). They, along with other's (Hughes, Sony, and?) also make combo DirecTV/OTA decoders. Dish also sells an HDTV/OTA decoder. These cost from about $350 - $800.

2- PQ for me is excellent on all inputs but I don't have DirecTV so I can't comment on satellite picture quality. I did the first 4 or 5 of UMR's tweaks and they did help. I'm not done tweaking yet.

I can't answer your other questions but I doubt very much if you will be disappointed with the GWII. It's an excellent TV. What sold me was no burn in on SD signals and the clarity of the picture. It can be razor sharp. Really amazing. I've spent many, many, many hours on the AVSForum. If you have the time it's well worth it. I think eventually all your questions about this set will be answered if you read enough threads. There are a couple of VERY knowlegable people who have the GWII and they are a tremendous help for all the rest of us rookies.

Good luck on your decision!

1. is this tv HDTV ready or HDTV capable?ie, do i have to spend another several hundred dollars to get this thing going on hd signal?

Yes. You need an HD tuner.

2. i've heard people mention that sports, i love sunday ticket myself, can be unwatchable, is this true? i can't imagine spending 3k + and having a poor sports watching experience. Can the tweakage that umr suggests fix this? i was kind of expecting to be able to see blades of grass on the field and every jersey name in the huddle.

HD sports are fabulous. Lower quality signals leave something to be desired. I don't think this set is worse than others after tweaking, but it does not do anything to improve bad signals. Some are very unhappy with SD sports. You need to judge this for yourself.

3. is the gw1 also called the xf-50xbr800 or does it have another code? I only ask this amazingly stupid question because i see a couple online retailers selling it for under 3200 and I was wondering if it was the same thing.

That is a GWII. The GWI is a 60" and not an XBR set.

4. i use a standard cable feed for my regular channels (not even what my provider (cox) calls its digital cable, should i upgrade and if not will my picture look crappy? I have a 4 year old 32in xbr right now, will this 50 inch look comparable?

It might look good or bad it depends on the signal quality. I would assume the 50" will look worse for SD because it amplifies and clarifies the problem in the signal. Without the tweaks it will very definitely look worse. My SD currently is probably a little better than my old 36" direct view.

UMR

I want to thank you for all the hard work you've done with the GWII. You've made it possible for a rookie like me to improve the PQ of my set.

A couple of questions-
1- What is the best video card to use with a PC for this TV? It sounds like the 9000 Pro works well. Is the 9700 Pro AIW as good?
2- Do you know if recording with a PC HD card (like MyHD) results in quality comparable to OTA HD or D-VHS?

I want to be able to record HD but I don't like tape (DVHS) and I don't really want to wait for the HD Tivo (or Zenith) recorders.

Brian

1- What is the best video card to use with a PC for this TV? It sounds like the 9000 Pro works well. Is the 9700 Pro AIW as good?

I have not tried a HTPC so I can't help much there. I would suggest you ask motjes2. When I was looking at this option I was considering cards that did not require active cooling to limit the noise. I believe I found a 9000 that fit this bill.

2- Do you know if recording with a PC HD card (like MyHD) results in quality comparable to OTA HD or D-VHS?

I believe so, but again I am not doing this myself. I did research this path and decided it was too expensive and would not meet the WAF. You might want to consider a Dish 921. It should be out in June if they stay with the current schedule.

Yeah, I've spent a couple hours today reading motjes2's posts. He seems to be the expert with the PC-GWII setup. I'm not quite done reading the threads but he's making more progress with each page I read.

Other than just screwing around to see if I can do it, I'm trying to find a way to justify connecting my PC to this TV. Using the PC as a HTPC would work but the PQ must be as good as it gets. I haven't done enough research yet to see if the PQ is comparable to OTA-STB-DVHS.

Are you going to start traveling around the country tuning up GWII's?

Originally posted by bertschb
Has anybody been able to get an NVidia GeForce TI-4200 to work with the GWII? If so, what was the highest resolution obtained? It seems most folks are using older Radeons or the 9700 but I don't remember seeing anybody talk about the 4200. Also, are the PowerStrip settings the same regardless of the video card used? Yes, I'm new to this and no, I have no idea what I'm doing.

I read, from other threads posted earlier, that there was very little success getting a high resolution with any other card (other than ATI). Do not take my word for it since I did not try this myself.

I am not going to go and buy one of these other cards but if someone want me to try it, I will be willing to play with it and find out what resolution will work. I think I have a procedure down of getting these cards to work, but I will not post it since it requires some unorthodox ways. Anyway, anybody can pm if they are willing to send me via mail one of these cards.

Originally posted by bertschb
Yeah, I've spent a couple hours today reading motjes2's posts. He seems to be the expert with the PC-GWII setup. I'm not quite done reading the threads but he's making more progress with each page I read.

Other than just screwing around to see if I can do it, I'm trying to find a way to justify connecting my PC to this TV. Using the PC as a HTPC would work but the PQ must be as good as it gets. I haven't done enough research yet to see if the PQ is comparable to OTA-STB-DVHS.

Are you going to start traveling around the country tuning up GWII's?

I had very good results with the HTPC and improving the SD. Dscaler just takes the input and cleans the SD signal and the only adjustment that need to be done are the contrast, picture, hue, color, sharpness, etc... This might be a good option as well. I am still studying to see if I can improve it even more.

I have no idea what I'm doing but the best I could get with my Ti-4200 was 848x480. Sending you my card is tempting but I don't have a back up. The work you and UMR have done is outstanding. Between the two of you you've covered all the bases with the GWII.

I'll keep reading in the forum and see what I can pick up about recording HD on my PC.

Originally posted by bertschb
...The work you and UMR have done is outstanding. Between the two of you you've covered all the bases with the GWII...

I believe there is still some room to tweak this set for those who are adventurous (we have not covered all the bases yet). I would suggest the following areas can still be explored by those who want to help.

1. Removing enhancement on vertical lines. There is still some edge enhancement on vertical lines. I have tried everything I know of to get rid of it, but it is still there. I have given up on this so I won't find it.;)

2. Optimize DRC. I believe the DRC-MF chip in this set has more features than the GWII is using. I have not figured out how to adjust the service menu items associated with DRC. I have given up on this so I won't find it either.;)

3. External deinterlacer/scaler. I have seen very little objective information posted about how something like an IScan Ultra or CenterStage 2 works with this set post tweaking. I should be getting a CS-2 for review in a few weeks so I'll let you all know.

4. Color correction filters. I have been exploring using a CC20R in the light path on my set, but it has been slow. More testing of this would be useful.

5. Eliminating internal reflections. The ANSI contrast ratios I have measured for my set are surprisingly low for LCD technology. Normally on/off ratios are fairly close to ANSI with LCD technology. Careful measurement of the results while applying of black cloth or paint would be useful.

I figured you might take exception to the "covered all the bases" statement. I just meant that you are working on the PQ and motjes2
is working on the PC connectivity.

I suspect you will be busy tweaking for quite some time to come. I wish I could help but I have nowhere near the techical expertise that you have. Are you an engineer/technician or are you just incredibly curious and brave? Unless you tweak for a living I'm amazed at your efforts.

I am an engineer, but not an electrical engineer. I don't work with TV's for a living.

I guess you would say I am just curious and able to figure most of these things out with some help from a friend, the web and service manuals.

Umr,

I posted the settings for video 2 on the 60 XBR Pics Thread. While going through them, I also try to figure out how dependent each item was on Picture Mode, Video Source and Signal Source. I posted what I think I was able to determine from the service manual but was not able to do it for Pic-Boost 2. I know you have more experience than I do and have found that the service manual have typos and mistakes.

From my point of view, I think is important how each of the items on your tweaks are dependent on Picture Mode, Video Source and Signal Source (maybe I am wrong). Anyway, can you take a look at them and see if I am correct on my determination, if it is not too much to ask.

The service manual is very bad in documenting the names of the items and categories. I was looking at MID3 VD0. Do you know what this category is all about? Some of the items like VDHP, VDHS, VDVE, and VDVS seem to have the same function as the item in MID1 COM (the ones used to eliminate the overscan).

There is another category that I was looking at (2170D-5).

motjes2,

The MID3 is documented much better in the GWI service manual. It does appear similar to the others, but is for VDO. I am not sure what VDO is and I have no notes about any attempts I may have made in tweaking it. I don't think I tried anything on this one since I did not know what VDO was.

The 2170D chip is part of the XBR electronics. Much of those adjustments don't do a thing on this set because it is not CRT based. I have not attempted any adjustments on 2170D-5. I have attempted to use other sections that apply to CRT sets and I could not make any improvements.

I believe PIC-BOOST is a function of the Picture Mode and Input Type. Your list looks basically right to me, but I don't trust the manual on these things. However, a value of 31 for UTMP looks wrong to me. I think you are better off if you save it and look at what changed across the different inputs and resolutions.

Whenever I change any of the UPOG,UBOG,UCOF,UHOF, or SHOF settings the screen changes pretty radically, into a state that I would be afraid to save. Is this normal, and after saving and switching through the picture modes things would be OK, or is something different about my set? How do these settings work, exactly?

Scott

Scott,

I saw the same thing on my set. This is why I suggested to save the settings and change picture modes until you return to PRO. It does take a certain level of courage to do this. I have noticed my set does not do this anymore since then . You might be able to avoid this problem by doing all of the enhancement and gamma changes first. I would guess one of those is causing the strange behavior.

You might not see this problem if you follow the order recommended in the file.

Umr,

thanks for the suggestion about the GWI manual. I will print it out and try to read it tonight on the bus. I will also verify the dependency factor of these items as per your suggestion. Anyway, I also noticed that the weird picture that I got in the beginning by "cycling" after applying the new settings for UPOG, UBOG,.. is also gone.

P.S. the UTMP was a typo. The correct number is 1.

Hi Bertschb,

I have a Radeon 7500 on my PC, however I don't really use the output of it (I just use the Svideo out to use the TV as a makeshift monitor, but at that point I didn't care about the quality).

I use a MyHD tuner card along with the PC. The signal that you "Record" from the MyHD is actually the transport stream (meaning, exactly the digital signal that comes in over the antenna.) Basically, what this means is that if you watch it OTA, or if you watch it after it's been saved to the Disk -- it is exactly the same. Get lots of HardDisks. Data rate is 8.5GB Per Hour for HDTV transports.

I have it connected to a 60" GWII and HD looks pretty awesome! If you do decide to get a MyHD, dont forget to buy a "VGA Breakout cable" (which I forgot). Otherwise you won't be able to plug the MyHD into your GWII :).

James

Originally posted by bertschb
UMR

I want to thank you for all the hard work you've done with the GWII. You've made it possible for a rookie like me to improve the PQ of my set.

A couple of questions-
1- What is the best video card to use with a PC for this TV? It sounds like the 9000 Pro works well. Is the 9700 Pro AIW as good?
2- Do you know if recording with a PC HD card (like MyHD) results in quality comparable to OTA HD or D-VHS?

I want to be able to record HD but I don't like tape (DVHS) and I don't really want to wait for the HD Tivo (or Zenith) recorders.

Brian

James-

Thanks for the reply. How do you output HD from the PC via S-Video cables? I thought HD could only be passed through component, DVI or Firewire.

Brian (Bertschb)

Hi Bertschb,

I Do not use S-Video to view HD Material. I use the S-Video out of my normal video card (ATI 7500) so I do not need an extra monitor to do "Setup". The MyHD comes with a remote, but you cannot delete/move files/select playlists with it. You need to use your standard monitor to do that. I just use the S-Video out as a quick-and-dirty Monitor. I will also buy a DVI-D Cable soon (My ATI 7500 supports DVI Out), and since GWII supports DVI-In, that's a good match. Good thing Motjes2 has described how to attach that.

As for passing MyHD HDTV to GWII, it was tricky, and was why I mentioned you need a "VGA Breakout" Cable. Basically, you are correct. You MUST have component video (Or DVI) if you want HDTV.

The MyHD Connector is a standard VGA-Out cable. It does NOT have component plugs. However, you can tell MyHD to send any of these over the VGA Cable:

1) RGB (For PC Monitors, and such)
2) PyPbPr (For Component Output)

So, MyHD Can send a Component signal, over a VGA Cable. Now, herein, lies the problem that your GWII does not accept a VGA Cable as an input. Therefore you need what is called a "Breakout Cable" which will take the DB15 (VGA Connector) and split it into 5 cables:

1) Red = R or Pr
2) Blue = B or Pb
3) Green = G or Py
4) White = ??? (No Connect for GWII)
5) Black = ??? (No connect for GWII)

Then, you just attach cables 1-3 to the GWII's component inputs after you set MyHD to output PyPbPr instead of RGB.

You can get the necessary cable from Digital Connection since they have a cable that goes direct to RCA. I was in a rush to get it on the weekend, so I went to Fry's Electronics and bought the breakout cable that ends in BNC, and a mass of adapters to change BNC to RCA :).

Note: This "Breakout Cable" will *NOT* work on the VGA-Output of your VGA card since your VGA card cannot output PyPbPr. To change VGA-Out of your video card to Component you must have a Transcoder.


Hope this helps,
James

Originally posted by bertschb
James-

Thanks for the reply. How do you output HD from the PC via S-Video cables? I thought HD could only be passed through component, DVI or Firewire.

Brian (Bertschb)

Hey Motjes,

How are you outputting the "Dscaled" signal to GWII -- Via DVI-D output of your video card, or using a VGA to Component Transcoder?

Also, what capture card did you use for Dscaler?

Thanks,
James

Originally posted by motjes2
I had very good results with the HTPC and improving the SD. Dscaler just takes the input and cleans the SD signal and the only adjustment that need to be done are the contrast, picture, hue, color, sharpness, etc... This might be a good option as well. I am still studying to see if I can improve it even more.

" Use of Blacker GW cabinet interior for less reflections post "

Save this as a "Favorite" or "Bookmark" for later reference to this same post/page of thread if of interest to you.

I read an article (dated Jan 2002) on the chip mirrors method (LCOS ?) where coating the main chip under the pixel mirrors increased the contrast ratio by 100 % from 500/1 to 1000/1 and then called "blacked chips" :-)

Blacker interior for reduction of interior reflections in thought of increased GWI/GWII PQ contrast: In event of warranty conflict due to modifications if Sony service reps where concerned, this would be easily removable. It can be cleaned as well. Could maybe use double sided tape with none peel back adhesive sheets. One option would be use of velcor to make it removeable.

I can attest that Black Felt is very resistant to light reflection (ideal). But it can burn too:-( Liken the idea to the use of irregular foam used in sound room walls/ceilings/floors to testing by manufactures of high end speakers for acurate measurement of "real" speaker sound comparison to original sound source.

I have a red laser (1/8" OD beam). This should give me a "point" feel for the back scatter off what I can find and play with. No light meter yet, but aiming for one soon. Since the interor is gray per umr, we need maximum effect to show significant contrast ratio improvement.


Additionally the fan currently sucks air into the cabinet via filters in the case speakers

Per umr posts: "We need something that is not going to flake or generate fibers to do this right" "My main concern is that whatever is placed in the TV does not generate crud that gets sucked into the optics. The secondary concern is flammability. I would rate a materials ability to absorb light behind those two goals" "The foam looks like it should be better than felt for both of my main concerns"

"I believe the air is being filtered through the woofers on the back of the screen. Sony appears to have the screen sealed very well to prevent dust from sneaking in. Their design also give dust a chance to settle before it gets to the fan if it makes it into the set. The interior of my TV was very clean unlike the reports of even new Samsung owners. The air flow through the fan is very low"

Whatever sites & sources we find, I'll post at this post here instead of several posts staggered by myself. Far as I can see, rules are Ok to post these links. I need tips on that fancy word link trick ! cool.
If not let me know. You are welcomed to send me a "PM" if preferred (click on top button "PM" in this very post)


******* Some current search & input results,

This from umr --> a Jackpot: I'm impressed - 1/8" x 42" x 72"
Full Sheet Neoprene Foam (High Quality) Maybe we can get samples ? But price is indeed fair if contrast is noticable. Use a few small Velcor adhesive patches to retain it in position maybe ?
http://www.foambymail.com/neoprene.html

For this above link regarding "Flammability":
FM VSS No. 302 ..... pass
UL 94 HBF ............. pass
UL 94 HFI ............. pass


Other low quality results, I'll likely delete these soon:

http://www.centralshippee.com/pages/colorcards/feltcolorcard.htm

http://distributioncentre.epsb.net/dc_Search.cfm?cSearchBox=BYD&cSearchIn=Category
Felt,Black,39 inches wide X 72 inch roll ,thin ,aprox.310-330 grams
Stk/N 10-01287 Not sure if this would have peel back adhesive.
Maybe also:
http://www.ebay.com
http://www.ebay.ca

Toronto area try EfstonScientific - probably too expensive though. Let me know if you find any - I'm not in Toronto (PM (top button) OK)
http://www.e-sci.com/

I plan to check out my local stores, linen & crafts sources.

Per Ten 99 (below post):
Black neoprene foam Self Stick Foamies, Very non reflective, easy to cut, & easy to work with at Walmart for 99 cents per 9"x12" sheet. This can come in pretty dark black. Perhaps Darice Foamies will do if low reflectivity. Thanks Chris. See umr's found link above or in forward posts also.


** notes per umr posts in previous pages: **

"I also peaked around with an inspection mirror that I have. It looks like there is quite a bit of gray colored plastic on the bottom of the screen/mirror assembly. This seems like a prime candidate for something like Duvetyne or black paint. I don't want to introduce something though that will end up on the LCD panel in the end though. We need something that is not going to flake or generate fibers to do this right"

" Eliminating internal reflections. The ANSI contrast ratios I have measured for my set are surprisingly low for LCD technology. Normally on/off ratios are fairly close to ANSI with LCD technology. Careful measurement of the results while applying of black cloth or paint would be useful "


Well got to go on line order my avia DVD, light meter & some black stuff, soon as my new card gets here asap :-) kbat

Originally posted by wihardjw
Hey Motjes,

How are you outputting the "Dscaled" signal to GWII -- Via DVI-D output of your video card, or using a VGA to Component Transcoder?

Also, what capture card did you use for Dscaler?

Thanks,
James


DVI Single Link Cable;

$39 CX23881 Capture Card. I have documented this card here plus there is a link that takes you to the HTCP Forum that has more information (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1937731#post1937731)

Well, what about instead of felt if it were 2mm thick black neoprene foam in like 9"x12" sheets that were self-adhesive backed (peel and stick). This stuff is very non reflective, easy to cut, and easy to work with. I have purchased this stuff at Walmart for 99 cents per sheet. I think it could work very well for this application, but it may be something you want to look at and see for yourself. It comes in several different colors, and is usually found in the crafts section of your Walmart. I'm sure they sell it at other crafts type of stores.

It's called Darice Foamies, and this is the Self Stick Foamies.

It would obvious take several sheets to do this, but if the material seems as though it would work well, then it would be worth the rather small investment, especially considering (once again) how easy it is to work with.

umr, Kbat, anyone else ... take a look at this stuff and let us know what you think.

Originally posted by Ten 99
...umr, Kbat, anyone else ... take a look at this stuff and let us know what you think.

Foam Info (http://www.foambymail.com/neoprene.html)

The foam makes some sense unless it is too thick. I doubt that is a problem. My main concern is that whatever is placed in the TV does not generate crud that gets sucked into the optics. The secondary concern is flammability. I would rate a materials ability to absorb light behind those two goals.

The foam looks like it should be better than felt for both of my main concerns. The specifications from the web site look good for this application.

Duvetyne is probably less flammable, but I suspect it would tend to drop some threads once it is cut.

Umr,

I am still not at peace with the Sony DVI connection not being able to take a digital signal through out the circuitry to the TV screen. I have contacted Sony for an explanation of this or some sort of documentation. Their response was the following:

"Thank you for contacting SONY Online Support.

The DVI connection carries the video signal digitally from the connection to the screen.

Thank you for the opportunity to be of assistance.

The Sony Internet Support Team
Online Support and Services Center
CV1D
Bennie"

I do not know to what extend these people at Online Support are knowledgeable to answer this question. I do not know if there is a way to contact an engineer at Sony that can respond to this. Is there documentation Online about this?

Sorry if this post has nothing to do with tweaking but this thread seems to know the most about the GWII.
I have been reading all your post for some time now trying to decide if now is the time to buy a TV or wait until the perfect solution is available. I realize that this day may never come so in the mean time I thought the GWII was as good as it gets for the money. I have seen this TV in several stores and finally saw the dead or blue pixel and was surprised at how easily it can be seen at 8-10 feet with the right dark background on the screen. I was watching the opening of Clones and there it was, I was unable to see it with normal color on the screen. My question is how long does the defect take to show up. To me it look like there was more than one pixel. If I were to buy this unit should I just run it continuously for a week to make sure it is ok or will it take time for this defect to show up say past the 30 day money back trial period.

Originally posted by UT_Kodiak
Sorry if this post has nothing to do with tweaking but this thread seems to know the most about the GWII.
I have been reading all your post for some time now trying to decide if now is the time to buy a TV or wait until the perfect solution is available. I realize that this day may never come so in the mean time I thought the GWII was as good as it gets for the money. I have seen this TV in several stores and finally saw the dead or blue pixel and was surprised at how easily it can be seen at 8-10 feet with the right dark background on the screen. I was watching the opening of Clones and there it was, I was unable to see it with normal color on the screen. My question is how long does the defect take to show up. To me it look like there was more than one pixel. If I were to buy this unit should I just run it continuously for a week to make sure it is ok or will it take time for this defect to show up say past the 30 day money back trial period.

I have a 60" and sit between 10' and 15'. I had the TV since 11/27/02 and have yet to see a dead pixel. True, I do not look for them but if they are present on my TV, they do not bother me and we (me & the dead pixels, if any) live in perfect harmony so far. :)

Here is a thread that talks about this topic:

GW2 and dead pixels (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=202176)

motjes2,

Bennie is wrong about that.

The information is in the service manual drawings. Look at Block Diagram 9 (board UD). The DVI input goes into IC7004 and comes out analog through a 17Mhz low pass filter on Pr, Pb and Y. These signals then go to Block Diagram 2 and on to Block Diagram 5 (board BC) where they are routed through the same signal path as Video 5 & 6.

I really would not get too concerned about this. I doubt many manufacturers are going to go to the trouble to have an all digital path. Most DVI devices other than PCs are not setup for calibration of the signal sent to the TV. Because of this most TVs that had an all digital path would require A/D converters for there analog inputs like the Samsung. They would then manipulate the signal in the digital domain. I am not sure this is necessarily perfect either. Many of the digital artifacts on the Samsung could be caused by the implementation of that design decision. I have seen one DLP implementation that is artifact free other than rainbows.

Sony may have made their decision for this very reason to minimize problems with manipulating the signal in the digital domain. I would also guess it is less expensive to do this in the analog world today with HD type signals.

UMR
I am in the market for a new HDTV (my old projection TV finally died after 13 years).
I also own a Toshiba TW56x81 (3 years), which I plan to move to my bedroom.
Now, I am hesitating with LCD Projection TVs like the KF-60XBR800. what about pixel burn outs.
In regular LCD screens a dead pixel... is forever... and warranty only covers when there is a cluster of them.
What happen in the Projection LCD? Is it the same? if you have a dead pixel - you're screwed?
How does this RPTV compare to the CRT like the 65WV700?
Please enlighten me.
Thanks
Robert

UT_Kodiak

I've had my 60" GWII for 6 weeks or so. I haven't seen any dead pixels but I haven't looked for them either. I sit about 14' from the TV. There may indeed be dead pixels but at normal viewing distances I can't see them.

-Bertschb

What happen in the Projection LCD? Is it the same? if you have a dead pixel - you're screwed?

The policy is the same for FP and RPTV LCDs. I would not buy an LCD without at least a 30 day return policy for this reason. Dead or weak pixels are hard to see. Full on is where you can have a real problem. I saw a Panasonic with this that I could not live with.

How does this RPTV compare to the CRT like the 65WV700?

I have not seen a calibrated 65WV700 so I don't think I can comment about the differences objectively. I would be concerned about the flicker problem. I think the GWII is very strong on colors and resolution after tweaking. The GWII also has no burn-in. The GWII weakest point is blacks. I would not buy a CRT RPTV because of burn-in so I have not looked at them except as a comparison for PQ.

Sorry to sound like a broken record, but THANKS very much to everyone who as contributed to this thread (honorable mention to UMR). I have benefited a great amount using your instructions on my GWI. I was not able to apply your tweaks directly, but with your help and the AVIA test disk, I am getting much improved picture from my GWI.

Unfortunately, I am still having a problem that I can't figure out. I seem to be getting a slight ghost image on my set. I have had this problem since I got the set.

The problem manifests whenever the set displays a black image directly to the right of a lighter image like grey. (e.g. on my Satellite guide, beside any black letters). It seems to appear about 1/4" to the left and I think it is worse on the right side of the screen.

I know that your work has been related to the GWII, but do you have any idea what could be causing this? I have played around with some of the settings and found that a couple of the MCP-ADJ3 settings seemed to affect the location of the ghost image, but did not eliminate it. As well, they seemed to make the image much worse than before, so maybe I need to change them in conjunction with something else... The settings were 'FO' and 'SYSM' (in the MCP-ADJ3 menu).

These are the labels in the manual:
FO - Sets sharpness f0
SYSM - Sets signal bandwidth

Any ideas on how to eliminate this ghost image, or insight into what the above settings are, and whether or not they need to be adjusted in conjunction with another setting would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks, and keep up the great work...

Rod

P.S. I editted the post to include the labels from the manual.

Rod,

I would experiment with the following parameters for a GWI. I do not know how to guide you other than this.

I have not attempted any of these so proceed at your own risk. I am sure most of them will not improve things, but these are the ones I would guess have the best likelihood of eliminating excessive enhancement.

Please post what you find. We may be able to use it in a GWII.

2103-1

SHAP
SHF0
PREO
BPF0
BPFQ
BPSW
TRAP
LPF

2103-2

SHAP
SHF0
PREO
BPF0
BPFQ
BPSW
TRAP
LPF

P-BOOST 2

STEP
CRNG
OSP
PKNG

MCP-ADJ3

SSHP
F0
POVR
SYSM

MID5

POP (23 is probably the best and only setting if you can get it to stick)
MHLY
MHLC
MVLY
MVLC
MHYE
MHCE
MVYE
MVCE

L001ENH

SVDANEN
SVDAN
SVCLPEN
SVCLP
SHDANEN
SHDAN
SHCLPEN
SHCLP
YDANEN
YDAN
HICLPEN
HICLP

UMR
I have a 60XBR800 delivered this coming Tuesday.
Any advice on connecting it to a Center Stage CS2?
Thanks

Originally posted by Robert G
UMR
I have a 60XBR800 delivered this coming Tuesday.
Any advice on connecting it to a Center Stage CS2?
Thanks

I'm currently running a Centerstage2 into a GWII. The resolution that I've found works best via DVI is 720p. A component connection (but not currently a DVI connection) from the Centerstage will run 1080i. The combination of UMR tweaks and the Centerstage is simply spectacular. I've been particularly impressed with improvements in picture quality, very fine control of white level, black level, color, hue etc., and signifcant reduction in motion artifact like diagonal jaggies. I'll be very interested to see what UMR thinks when Focus Enhancements gets a unit to him for evaluation. The complexity of adjustments with the various resolutions and settings of the CS2 coupled with the UMR tweaks is exponentially more complicated than either set alone and will likely tie him up for the next decade!!!

Harry

Robert,

I would listen to Harry on this. I don't have it in hand yet.

Harry,

Sounds like it should be fun, but I don't think they will give me that much time.

UMR:

I worked on my color decoder settings for quite a while this evening, because I felt that skin tones were not as realistic as they had been a while back. I started with Avia blue, red, and green bars.....and the %color sat screen. I started from scratch and tried not to be influenced by my memory of earlier settings. It turned out that a majority of the recalibrated settings were within 1 unit of the current UMR tweak settings. The only exception was GYR which ended up at 9 instead of 13. This was your former value for GYR?? On what basis did you increase it to 13?? Skin tones are more realistic again with my GYR dialed in to 9. Any idea why the difference?

Harry

Harry,

The new method I used is in the latest tweak file. I used a light meter without filters for the green adjustment. My settings look very good to me at this time. I believe it is difficult to set these accurately by eye. A light meter takes all of the guess work out of it.

I would highly recommend using a light meter over your eye.

Originally posted by umr
Harry,

The new method I used is in the latest tweak file. I used a light meter without filters for the green adjustment. My settings look very good to me at this time. I believe it is difficult to set these accurately by eye. A light meter takes all of the guess work out of it.

I would highly recommend using a light meter over your eye.

UMR:

I agree with this...and will give a light meter a try. This may represent a situation where what is most accurate is not necessarily the most pleasing. In audio, for example, many people prefer lots of deep bass...but when you look at a frequency curve.....the bass is clearly at too high level relative to other frequencies. I guess using a light meter to set the color balance is like using an equalizer or sound meter with pink noise to set the frequency response. Supposedly, red push is dialed in at the factor because people like lots of red even though it messes up the color balance.

Another factor is that I am red-green color blind so what I see may be a bit different. I do get help from others when setting colors.

I think it is very difficult to judge whether color is correct by looking at a variety of source material. Many movie and video sources intentionally shift the color balance. A better approach would be to look at material which you know how it should look. I do not find accurate sources to have displeasing color with these settings. I am sure some people find accurate colors to be too muted.

Hi all,

forget the stupid question but in the UMR instructions, is S-VIDEO considered a composit or component input ? As I recall it is identical to the three component cables except jammed into one tiny connector which accounts for the quality difference.

Also, since the GWII automatically does a 3:2 pulldown, should I find a way to disable the Faroudja chip in my Philips Q50 ?

Last question, is there a GWII manual online (not service manual) ?

Thanks in advance,

Erik.

Neither...
S-Video is a step between Composite (2 Leads in one cable) and Component (3 cables 2 leads each).

But when it comes to the sample settings in the umr guide, should I consider it Composite or Component (2170P-4, page 8, first section, version 4.5) ?

Erik.

In this case S-Video should be considered as Composite.

I have used the Avia DVD and made the adjustments for SD. While the PQ has been improved somewhat, it still leaves a lot to be desired depending on the channel and content, which is no doubt irreversible. I'm still at a loss as to whether it can still be improved upon. If it can then what's the point of the Avia ? The HDTV demo loop PQ is, to my eyes, as perfect as I could expect. I'd, quite frankly, be amazed if the PQ could be improved upon. So, my question is, can the umr tweaks improve the PQ of my GW2, and would there be any point in acquiring the services of an ISF calibrator after the tweaking ?

So, my question is, can the umr tweaks improve the PQ of my GW2, and would there be any point in acquiring the services of an ISF calibrator after the tweaking ?

I may be biased, but I don't think there is any disagreement on your basic question. The tweaks will improve PQ beyond the user menu alone. The difference an ISF calibration can make is going to depend on you and the technician.

I know one ISF tech adjusted a set only with the user menu for $350. Hiring that person would be a waste of time. Hiring a technician to calibrate the color decoder and gray scale could be useful if you are not able to do a good job with the tweaks.

I would hire a competent tech if I was not comfortable going into the service menu. I would buy the light meter fro about $160 that I recommend and do it all myself if I was comfortable with the service menu.

Originally posted by umr
I may be biased, but I don't think there is any disagreement on your basic question. The tweaks will improve PQ beyond the user menu alone. The difference an ISF calibration can make is going to depend on you and the technician.

I know one ISF tech adjusted a set only with the user menu for $350. Hiring that person would be a waste of time. Hiring a technician to calibrate the color decoder and gray scale could be useful if you are not able to do a good job with the tweaks.

I would hire a competent tech if I was not comfortable going into the service menu. I would buy the light meter fro about $160 that I recommend and do it all myself if I was comfortable with the service menu.

UMR:

Perhaps you mentioned this earlier, but how did you decided which light meter to use....and do you have recommendations about where to get one??

Harry

Originally posted by Harry Brandt
UMR:

Perhaps you mentioned this earlier, but how did you decided which light meter to use....and do you have recommendations about where to get one??

Harry

Bill Cushman recommended it as the best low cost meter on the market. He also suggested it to Steve Smallcombe who is now using it instead of his home brew setup in the SMART system. I purchased mine off the net. PM me if you want to know where. They don't want us posting stuff like that here.

Thanks for the suggestions UMR.

I have good and bad news... Bad news first: I have played around with a number of settings and still can't remove the ghost image. However, I did manage to reduce it a bit. First off, does anyone else have this problem? I will try to post a picture of it if that will help...

NOTES: I am using a Bell 6000 receiver, with component input at 1080i, and I do see the ghost image on my DVD player as well (sony DVP-NS900 at 480P. I should also note that the problem is present with the s-video output of my 6000 receiver when set to SD mode. This leads me to believe that it doesn't have anything to do with the source, but anything is possible. My normal viewing distance is about 12 feet.

Anyhow, here are the settings that affected the location and visibility of the Ghost image:

MCP-ADJ3
FO: affects the ghost image, but I ended up with the default setting of 3
SYSM: seems to reduce the visibility of the ghost image by increasing the setting to 3 (from a default of 2). I tried a setting of 1 for a while (it reduced the width of the ghost image), but it seemed to be worse.
POVR: didn't make a huge difference, but I can see some improvement from 1 foot away by increasing to 3 (from default of 2)
CTI: again, not a huge diff, but changed to 0 (from a default of 1)

MCP-ADJ1
SCON: This is where I got the best improvement, I increased this to 15 (from a default of 5). This seemed increased the overall white level, so I'm not sure if it is the contrast difference that makes it harder to see the ghost image, but it is definitely improved. I haven't had time to try this with my DVD player, so I don't know if it has affected my colour calibrations(although it doesn't appear to have made a noticeable difference to over all colour).

Unfortunately, I can still see the problem. It is obvious on the satellite guide, but is also noticeable when viewing HD content. I can easily pic it out on the right side of faces (usually women) where the face is 'uniform' in tone and there is long dark hair right beside it. It may sound funny, but it is actually quite distracting.

Anyhow, any more ideas would be appreciated. BTW, I did try every setting that UMR mentioned above, and the only ones that had any effect (for me) are listed in this post. As well, I was feeling brave so I 'tried' every setting from 3D-COMB through to VID ADJ (don't forget it's a GWI, so this may not be safe for GWII or even your GWI for that matter!). I'm not sure if the menu names are the same or available on the GWII, but they probably translate to something...

I took some pictures of the problem. When looking at the images, look to the left of anything black you can see a bit of the ghost image. It is actually a bit more noticeable in person, my camera seems to reduce it a bit. You can notice along the black border, there is a black 'smear' that is about 20 pixels wide! I'm beginning to think that I have a problem with my set and I should inquire about warranty service... If anyone has this same problem, please let me know so that I can determine if it is a problem with my set only.

Regards,

Rod

Rod:

I'm sure you probably alreadytried this...but did you try all the different options in "Image Revision" in the setup page of the user menu?? Your choices will be Auto, 1, 2, or 3. I've found that setting 1 creates a ghost similar to that seen in your pictures. On my set, either Auto or 2 shows no ghost.

Harry

Rod,

I agree with Harry this looks like an image revision problem. This is on page 3 of the tweaks file and page 68 of your user manual.

Rod,

I would guess the image revision should fix the problem. I would suggest you look at your cables next if that does not work. I have read that poor impedance matching can cause ghosting, but I have not seen it myself. I would suggest cables that use Canare connectors with Beldin or Canare wire.

Originally posted by umr
Rod,

I would guess the image revision should fix the problem. I would suggest you look at your cables next if that does not work. I have read that poor impedance matching can cause ghosting, but I have not seen it myself. I would suggest cables that use Canare connectors with Beldin or Canare wire.

I wish it were as easy as changing the Image Revision setting, but that is one of the first things I tried. I have it set at 0 (1 also works), if I set it to Auto it is way off (i.e. you can barely even read the on screen TV display, things are off by two inches or more).

I don't think it is my cables, since I get the ghost image with every cable I try (from s-video to component). I am using IXOS component cables that cost around $150CDN ($100 US) for my DVD player, and it also has the problem.

Just for kicks I removed every cable with the exception of my IXOS component cables and still had the problem. Then I attached each of my sources (i.e. only one source physically attached at a time), and the problem was there on each source.

I have alot of components hooked up to the same power source, so that was my next thing to experiment with. My amps draw alot of current (two Bryston 4B's), so I thought I'd start with them (even though they are on a separate physical circuit). I disconnected the amplifiers (and preamp) completely from the power source to no avail. After connecting and disconnecting other components, I desided to try the TV and DVD player only, and then the DVD and HD receiver only. NO LUCK on either! Bummer! Since they are completely different componets, I don't think that they are the source of the problem. I think it is either a problem with the TV or my power source.

Oh well, maybe I will try a UPS (if I can get my hands on one) to get a cleaner source of power...

One other note: I recall when I first got the TV the image revision was set at AUTO and it worked fine. When I came home from work one day the image was all messed up and I set the image revision to 0 to clear it up. I can't remember if I had the ghost image before that, but I'm pretty sure I did.

Regards,

Rod

Rod:

That's strange.....I think something is out of whack on your set. When my Image Revision is set on 0....that iis when I see dramatic ghosting. On Auto, 1, 2, or 3, I see no ghosting. Seems to be opposite of yours. My guess is that one of your boards is bad.

Harry

Rod,

I am with Harry on this. It sounds like something is probably wrong with your set. If we knew what was actually going on in the image revision circuitry we might have a clue where the problem could be.

I initially thought you would have tried image revision until I saw the photos. What you are seeing looks like the kind of problem that circuitry is designed to fix.

I don't think any power conditioner is going to fix this. I have not seen any type of ground or power problem that looks like that. It is also unlikely a power problem is just going to appear out of the blue one day and hang around.

I have seen image revision effected by different devices. Your post sounds like you have exhausted that possibility though.

Thanks everyone.

I guess this is what the warranty is for... I just hope the technicians that end up working on it know what they are doing!

Rod

P.S. Bell ExpressVu (the satellite provider that I use here) just added 11 new HD channels... I got them going this weekend and WOW, this is AWSOME! The only problem is that now I'm probably going to be without my TV while I get it fixed... Maybe I'll get lucky and they will exchange it for a GWII!!

Rod,

Please keep us informed on what they did to fix your problem. I would be interested to know what caused it.

Here's the reply i received from Sony when I questioned them about the conversion of the DVI input to analog:

Thank you for contacting SONY Online Support.

The DVI connection is utilized for the DTCP copyrighted content from the
source digital signal. All displays albeit Picture Tube, LCD, Plasma,
Etc emit and analog signal for the picture. You can't actually see a
digital signal. The digital connections are for the protocol of digital
copyright protection between source material and the display device used
to communicate the licencing signal back to the source device to allowy
the picture to transfer.

Thank you for the opportunity to be of assistance.

The Sony Internet Support Team
Online Support and Services Center
CV1D
Bennie

Originally posted by Harry Brandt
Here's the reply i received from Sony when I questioned them about the conversion of the DVI input to analog:

Thank you for contacting SONY Online Support.

The DVI connection is utilized for the DTCP copyrighted content from the
source digital signal. All displays albeit Picture Tube, LCD, Plasma,
Etc emit and analog signal for the picture. You can't actually see a
digital signal. The digital connections are for the protocol of digital
copyright protection between source material and the display device used
to communicate the licencing signal back to the source device to allowy
the picture to transfer.

Thank you for the opportunity to be of assistance.

The Sony Internet Support Team
Online Support and Services Center
CV1D
Bennie

This sounds like DVI on the GWII is only for copyrighted material if I am reading Bennie's respond correctly. Harry can you post your original question.

Sure: Here's the question;

Message : Hi: recently purchased a KF-60xbr800. I also purchased
the service manual and have reviewed the block diagrams. I was very
surprised to see the the DVI connection into the set on Video 7 is
converted to analog in its signal path. Why would you guys do that!!!!
One of the reasons I purchased the set was so that I could hook up my
SONY HD200 STB to the TV via DVI and keep the signal in the digital
domain right to the screen. But you convert the signal to analog inside
the set and then run the same path as the component inputs. THIS MAKES
NO LOGICAL SENSE!!! Thanks, in advance for your reply.

Originally posted by Harry Brandt
Here's the reply i received from Sony when I questioned them about the conversion of the DVI input to analog:

Thank you for contacting SONY Online Support.

The DVI connection is utilized for the DTCP copyrighted content from the
source digital signal. All displays albeit Picture Tube, LCD, Plasma,
Etc emit and analog signal for the picture. You can't actually see a
digital signal. The digital connections are for the protocol of digital
copyright protection between source material and the display device used
to communicate the licencing signal back to the source device to allowy
the picture to transfer.

Thank you for the opportunity to be of assistance.

The Sony Internet Support Team
Online Support and Services Center
CV1D
Bennie

Was this the actual reply, spelling errors and all?
"albeit"
"Etc"
"and analog signal"
"licencing" -- okay, "licence" is an acceptable alternate spelling for "license"
"allowy"

This reminds me of some of those "English" assembly instructions which come with modular furniture made by some factory in Taiwan. You need a translator to translate the translation!

eweiss:

This is the actual response from SONY....spelling and all!!!

Harry

Do other people see, in bright images or white screens, horizontal bands where the color/brightness is slightly uneven? Its noticeable best when a bright sky is being shown, and especially when the camera pans down from the sky because the sky is moving but the bands don't. I'm not sure how to best describe it.

Just curious.

Scott

Originally posted by Rod B

P.S. Bell ExpressVu (the satellite provider that I use here) just added 11 new HD channels... I got them going this weekend and WOW, this is AWSOME!

Where did you get the dual dish from to get the new channels from Bell?

I was told they are sending all customers with 6000's new dished out?

Originally posted by Mazdaspeedguy
Where did you get the dual dish from to get the new channels from Bell?

I was told they are sending all customers with 6000's new dished out?

Before I got Bell, I had a Dish Network 500 "dual dish" setup that is still installed on the roof (basically two separate dishes connected with a y-connector called a switch). Bell and Dish Network use compatible hardware, so I took a leap of faith and pointed the second dish to the new bird and re-installed the y-switch that is required for the dual dish setup (the switch is SW21 or something like that). I also had to turn off my receiver to take the update and BANG, all the new channels were there!

Before I tried this I had called Bell to get information on the new channels. They said that they are not available yet (wrong!), and they would make an appointment in a few weeks or months to install a larger single dish that can pick up both satellites (dual lnb dish). I will still get the new dish installed from Bell. It supposedly will yield a stronger signal, and I will only require one dish on my roof. I just couldn't wait 2-3 months, so I decided to give it a try.

To recap, here is the physical hardware you will need:
- second satellite dish (or the appropriate dual lnb parabolic dish that works for Bell). I'm not sure if the Dish network dual lnb dish will work with Bell or not.
- switch (I think the model of mine is SW21 or something very close, it has a 'SW21' in it for sure). Mine is on the roof, so I can't verify the number.
- 6000 receiver (or other HD receiver, if any??)

It may help for you to picture the physical connections involved:
1. satellite dish pointed at Nimiq 91, with a Coax connection to the switch input 1
2. satellite dish pointed at Nimiq 82, with a Coax connection to the switch input 2
3. 6000 receiver with Coax connection to the switch output

An alternative would be the Dual LNB dish (like the one Bell will install for customers that own a 6000 receiver at no charge). I've never seen a dual Lnb dish up close, so I'm not sure if they use a built in switch or have a separate switch...

You may want to check other posts regarding this subject (it's a bit off topic for this thread). I think that some others have also gotten this going as well.

Rod

Rod, could you list what HDTV channels are available to you now with what you described above?

Thanks!

Originally posted by Scott Krotz
Do other people see, in bright images or white screens, horizontal bands where the color/brightness is slightly uneven? Its noticeable best when a bright sky is being shown, and especially when the camera pans down from the sky because the sky is moving but the bands don't. I'm not sure how to best describe it.

Just curious.

Scott

This is a fairly common LCD short coming. I see it rarely, but I think it is set dependent. There is a service menu adjustment for correcting alternating vertical line brightness.

UMR
I finally got my new 60XBR800 yesterday evening.
I tried to implement your tweaks, but encountered a few problems.

I connected a Zenith HD-SAT520 via DVI and Component to Video 6.
I connected a Denon 1600 via component to Video 5.
And cable to RF.

I have a few questions:
1. User Menu... Image revision???? what's this.... do I change this setting with an RF signal? the DRC settings are grayed out when the signal is from DVI or component...
2. Do I save (write ) after every change in an Item or wait until I finish the Category? I tried both ways and the setting are not kept...
3. Can I scroll through the Video Inputs and make the changes or I have to exit Service and come back... I tied to scroll the inputs, modify some items... but they were not saved (I saved them after every change in an Item)
4. OSP and PKNG - do I have to quit the setup go to the user menu and change the sharpness with a test DVD? or I can do it while in Service Mode.
5. VGAM - it is not clear to me what I have to do in order to keep the setting of 31... every time I come back is is back to 28.
6. CDLY - as I do not use analog inputs except RF... what should I use?
7. 2170P-1 - the settings are not saved..................
8. page 7 of 12 "Press the reset button..." the instruction is not clear... what yellow?
9. 2170P-2 - I changed the settings... (they are not kept).. but it is not clear to me why the reference to the Menu. is it the user menu? are these the same settings I entered in page 3 before I started?
10. 2170P-4 - again I changed them... saved them... but they are not kept...
11. MID5 - I checked each input but when I come back... it's back to the original setting...

I have more problems... but let's start with these..

Thanks for your help
Robert

You are hitting "mute" then "enter" right?

I've continued to explore the DVI to analog conversion with a number of people at Sony and elsewhere who seem to know what they are talking about. My take on this is that they did not see significant advantage to maintaining the signal in the digital domain until further in its path to the LCD panels. Their primary objective was to use DVI for HDCP processing...and then to convert the signal back to analog so that it could travel the same path as the component input. Whether this design decision has adversely impacted on PQ is unclear and cannot be tested. This does, at least, explain why the DVI input and component input look virtually identical in terms of PQ

Robert:

Image revision affects ghosting. Basically, you should adjust it so with a test pattern or picture that includes letters...and set it where they are sharpest, without ghosting. Most people have found Auto to work well. On my set, Auto, 1, 2, and 3 are fine on just about everything with no real difference. Setting 0 creates signficant ghosting on my set.

Saving....
I hit the Muting button... and I see on the screen the word write....
Should I hit something else??? I did not hit the enter button....
I'll try it immediately...
Thanks

Did it work?

Originally posted by Robert G
Saving....
I hit the Muting button... and I see on the screen the word write....
Should I hit something else??? I did not hit the enter button....
I'll try it immediately...
Thanks

Robert:

Until you hit the enter button and see the word WRITE turn red....you have saved absolutely nothing!!!

Harry

Now I see... and it works...
Thanks

Robert, try reading this thread. I believe these questions have been answered.

The reset button is used to restore the factory defaults on the user menu. The service menu can be used to change these defaults to the values are restored to your settings instead of the factory values.

UMR
I read and re-read...and you're right... most of my questions were answered... but I still have some questions...

I connected a Zenith HD-SAT520 via DVI - Video 7
I connected a Denon 1600 via component -Video 5.
And cable to RF.

I have a few questions:
1. CDLY - What setting should I select for Cable on RF?
2. Setting the Reset Button - can you clarify the sequence..

When I change the output from the HD-SAT520 from 1080I to 720P to 480P(via DVI), do I have to make all the changes you recommended for each resolution?

Thanks
Robert


Thanks for your help
Robert

Originally posted by Robert G
UMR
I read and re-read...and you're right... most of my questions were answered... but I still have some questions...

I connected a Zenith HD-SAT520 via DVI - Video 7
I connected a Denon 1600 via component -Video 5.
And cable to RF.

I have a few questions:
1. CDLY - What setting should I select for Cable on RF?
2. Setting the Reset Button - can you clarify the sequence..

When I change the output from the HD-SAT520 from 1080I to 720P to 480P(via DVI), do I have to make all the changes you recommended for each resolution?

Thanks
Robert


Thanks for your help
Robert

Robert.....I think I can answer some of these questions for you.

1. Every input, resolution, and mode has its own set of values....so, yes...you must make the changes for each resolution.

2. CDLY - You will need to set this for your set using a Chroma Delay screen from a test disk such as AVIA. It is highly variable depending on source, input, and resolution.

3. I'm not sure what you mean by "setting the reset button" sequence.

Harry

Harry
Thanks...
re Reset:
On Page 7 it says:
Press the reset button on the remote after saving them (saving what?), with the mode ( what mode) highlighted in Yellow(?) to invoke These (What?).
than there are values, which I entered...
So please explain.....

Umr,

I think we all agree that your settings have improved the source signal one way or another. I have benefited, from day one, of all your tweaks. If I get a new set, I will start documenting and comparing the default settings with your Tweaks. I did not want to do this with my current TV (I did not want to go back and input my original setting) but if I have to start all over I might as well do it.

So here is my to do list.

[list=1]
Document my default and current settings (the TV I have right now) for all inputs.
Once the new TV arrives, document the new default settings for all inputs.
document the AVIA patterns at default for each input.
take a few pics that I can compare later on and minimize the degradation of the pic as much as possible.
Apply UMR's tweaks and document the AVIA patterns.
Take a few pics and compare to default settings pics.
[/list=1]

This all depends on your anticipated analysis of the FE CS-2 with the GWII.

Ditto.

Thanks UMR for all the work - my set looks so much better than when it was delivered. I've been away from the forums for a while, but I did the MID5 tweaks a couple of weeks ago. Forgive me if this has been stated already, but I feel the MID5 tweak is a mixed bag...

Pros-

-HDTV and DVD looks much sharper now
-Magenta and Green full screen splotchiness gone from mid-greys on DVD
-Moire mostly gone from SD (or my eyes have grown used to it)

Cons-

-Pixel matrix much more visible and from farther away
-low quality SD suffers considerably from the lack of filtering (I now see more rough edges and macroblocking which is something I never used to see on SD)
-Combing from progressive DVD (mostly menus, but occasionally certain bad spots within the movie)


I might switch it back - I think in a few years the downsides won't be as bad as the quality of source material improves.



Ron

Ron,

I believe I stated this before that tweaking MID5 can be good or bad. It will definitely reveal the source material. For my inputs this has been an improvement. Any sources with high frequency noise may look worse when you remove the filtering. I think MHYL should be an improvement for all sources though.

Originally posted by Ten 99
Rod, could you list what HDTV channels are available to you now with what you described above?

Thanks!

NBCHE
ABCHE
CBSHE
FOXHE
PBSHE (only demo loops right now)
CITYHE
NBCHW
ABCHW
CBSHW
FOXHW
PBSHW(demo loops)
HDTV (PPV, I think)
HDTV1 (movies, I think TMN or Movie Central?)
HDTV2(various network programming, not 24 hr)
HDTV3(various)

The network HD feeds are not 100% HD, but the feed is 10x better than the standard channels. Better resolution, and more consistent color. I'd guess real HD content is about 30-50% during prime time.

The moment I've been waiting for has just arrived!! I fixed the ghosting problem on my GWI!!!

There were two settings that removed the ghosting all together. They are both in the D-GM TG table (on my GWI). The first was POS CTL (although I set this one back to the default). The other setting was the V POS D (TG V Position dot). My default setting was 30, I reduced it to 25 and the ghost image is completely gone.:D Anything lower or higher and the ghost image starts to appear.

You may recall that I got some positive results with the MCP-ADJ3 table. The MCP-ADJ3 settings reduced the ghost image, but had some drawbacks with regards to sharpness. I thought it was best to leave those unchanged, so I changed them back to the defaults.

So to be clear, the setting that I used to remove the ghost image was in the D-GM TG table, called V POS D.

I will post a follow up to this message to let you know the tables that I played around with...

Rod

In trying to find a solution to my ghosting problem I played around with a few of the tables on my GWI. I thought it would be less confusing to post this as a separate message:

I ended up trying a large number of different settings (and I didn't blow up my TV!). Below are the tables that I tried modifying:

3D-COMB
2103-1
2103-2
P-BOOST1
P-BOOST2
P-BOOST3
MCP-ADJ1
MCP-ADJ2
MCP-ADJ3
VID ADJ
MCP-FIX (except cblk, akbt, blks)
MID1
MID2
MID5

L001SCALE
L001ENH
L001POS S
HV POS AD (used this to set the position of my image using avia patterns)
D-GM TG (only tried INV CTL, POS CTL, H POS, V POS H, V POS D)
D-GM IM
D-GM WB
D-GM TEST
D-GM TPN (see note below)
LCD-DR (Didn't change anything that had voltage in the description...)

NOTE on D-GM TPN. I believe this table is used for displaying a test pattern. Be careful with the T-PATN SW setting, your table display goes away completely (i.e. you won't know where you are in the system setup)! I wouldn't recommend changing this unless you know what you are doing, I certainly don't!

Changing some stuff in the L001ENH (?? I can't remember which one) had some visible effect when displaying the avia resolution patterns. I may go back to these at some time to see if there is any possible benefit there...

Please remember that my TV is a GWI, so the same may not apply to those with the GWII. Also, when testing some of the settings, my TV image did change drastically in some cases so change them at your own risk.

Rod

Geez, sorry about all the posts. I feel like I'm talking to myself:o

I just went in to the Image revision item on the Setup menu, I can now set this to Auto again. In fact, it works on Auto, 0, 1, and 2. If I set it to 3, I can see a very minor ghost image... I found this interesting, so I thought I'd pass it on...

Rod

Rod,

Thanks for the post. I just tried your V POS D tweak. It does the same thing on my set. I tried setting mine to 25 as well so I can go back to Auto. It did not work quite as well as default with image revision at 2 on my set. This looks like a service menu version of the user menu adjustment.

I have played quite a bit with L001ENH. Most of these do change the picture quality, but I have not found any I like better than the default settings. Make sure you check test patterns and movie material before you decide a setting is an improvement. Some of these look better on test material while they are much worse on program material.

Originally posted by umr
Rod,

Thanks for the post. I just tried your V POS D tweak. It does the same thing on my set. I tried setting mine to 25 as well so I can go back to Auto. It did not work quite as well as default with image revision at 2 on my set. This looks like a service menu version of the user menu adjustment.

I have played quite a bit with L001ENH. Most of these do change the picture quality, but I have not found any I like better than the default settings. Make sure you check test patterns and movie material before you decide a setting is an improvement. Some of these look better on test material while they are much worse on program material.

UMR,

I'm not sure if it will make a difference, but you may want to try changing the setting to AUTO in image revision, and then go up and down on the V POS D setting until you get a good match (this might be difficult, depending on how bad your ghost image is). I'm guessing that this is a set depend ant setting so 25 will not work the same on your TV as it does on mine. For me it was quite easy, as I adjusted the setting down, the ghost image moved to the right and then lined up... Really obvious when using an Avia resolution pattern (the one with the circular lines and numbers, I think it is the second one in the list on the resolution page).

Also, I did some more playing around and found that I still had a slight ghost image (maybe 1 pixel off), and I could only get rid of it with changes to POS CTL combined with V POS D. I reduced the POS CTL to 10 (from a default of 11), with V POS D at 25 (from a default of 30).

Thanks for the information on the L001ENH table, that will save me some time!

Rod

Rod,

I did put my set back to Auto and tried POS CTL to improve the picture, but it was not better than my original settings. The default on my set for POS CTL was 1 and not 11. I doubt I tried 10 and 25 together though. I'll have to give that a shot.

Originally posted by umr
Rod,

I did put my set back to Auto and tried POS CTL to improve the picture, but it was not better than my original settings. The default on my set for POS CTL was 1 and not 11. I doubt I tried 10 and 25 together though. I'll have to give that a shot.

UMR:

Are you trying to improve minor degrees of ghosting?? or just trying to further improve PQ. I'm trying to decided whether to mess with these setting since i can see no ghosting on Auto or 2. Please let me know whether it is worth the effort.

Harry

Originally posted by Harry Brandt
UMR:

Are you trying to improve minor degrees of ghosting?? or just trying to further improve PQ. I'm trying to decided whether to mess with these setting since i can see no ghosting on Auto or 2. Please let me know whether it is worth the effort.

Harry

I am trying to improve very subtle degrees of ghosting. I don't really see any to speak of with IR set to 2, but I am always game for an improvement. You can be surprised with these tweaks. Sometimes just when you think you have done everything you can another one sneaks up and makes a difference. I don't expect it to be better, but I won't know until I try it.

Originally posted by umr
I am trying to improve very subtle degrees of ghosting. I don't really see any to speak of with IR set to 2, but I am always game for an improvement. You can be surprised with these tweaks. Sometimes just when you think you have done everything you can another one sneaks up and makes a difference. I don't expect it to be better, but I won't know until I try it.

For the most part, my final settings have mirrored yours even in situations where i have started from scratch and gotten consensus of a couple of people before setting the final value. Please let me know your final settings for these variables if you note some fine scale resolution improvement.

Also, where do things stand with your CS-2??

Harry

Originally posted by Harry Brandt
For the most part, my final settings have mirrored yours even in situations where i have started from scratch and gotten consensus of a couple of people before setting the final value. Please let me know your final settings for these variables if you note some fine scale resolution improvement.

Also, where do things stand with your CS-2??

Harry

Sure thing. The only thing I have changed on my set that I have not posted is sharpness. I have found I can get a little better results from VE test patterns with sharpness than Avia. I am actually running my sharpness a little higher than before.

I have not heard a thing on the CS-2 yet.

Harry,

I just tried the SM settings that effect ghosting and I see no reason to change from the factory settings. I have a feeling this is device dependent though since my DVP-S7000 worked on Auto and my DVD-XP30 requires image revision set to 2.

Originally posted by umr
Harry,

I just tried the SM settings that effect ghosting and I see no reason to change from the factory settings. I have a feeling this is device dependent though since my DVP-S7000 worked on Auto and my DVD-XP30 requires image revision set to 2.

UMR:

That's what I thought. I'll play with the ghosting settings tonight as well and will let you know what I find. I find that when I scale a 4:3 standard def image to full screen....i do see some artifact (and maybe even a little ghosting) around some lettering...such as the moving strip on CNN. Let's face it.....SD is NEVER going to look like HD, even with excellent scaling. And expanding to full screen tends to emphasize problems. IR settings have seemed a bit erratic. For a while...i thought setting 2 was a touch sharper than auto....but recently they have been looking the same. I haven't analyzed this by source yet, though. Currently, I'm leaving IR set on auto.

Regards,
Harry

Harry Brandt
Hi, I stand to benefit from all the good info from this forum when I receive my 60XBR800 in a few days. I felt the need to register with this site and share any info I acquired. Speaking to a knowledgeable sales person at Ultimate (I've delt with him many times). I learned that the new Blue laser DVDs will have DVI output. As I understand, if you don't have a DVI input on your HDTV, you will not be able to record DVDs in the future. The salesman also suggested that Direct TV may move away fro DVI. If they don"t move away from DVI you will need two DVI inputs or some sort of DVI multi-switch. Hope this helps! P.S Thanks UMR and all the others for the great information in this forum.

ugh, At least, your GW-II has all the inputs you'll need for the next few years. If DVI is the HD standard of the future, there will be plenty of switch boxes available from $10 and all the way to DVI compatible A/V receiver.

Originally posted by ugh
Harry Brandt
Hi, I stand to benefit from all the good info from this forum when I receive my 60XBR800 in a few days. I felt the need to register with this site and share any info I acquired. Speaking to a knowledgeable sales person at Ultimate (I've delt with him many times). I learned that the new Blue laser DVDs will have DVI output. As I understand, if you don't have a DVI input on your HDTV, you will not be able to record DVDs in the future. The salesman also suggested that Direct TV may move away fro DVI. If they don"t move away from DVI you will need two DVI inputs or some sort of DVI multi-switch. Hope this helps! P.S Thanks UMR and all the others for the great information in this forum.

Hi ugh,

Welcome to this forum. I agree that here has been a ton of very useful info here, largely due to the diligence of UMR, Motjes, and others committed to excellent picture quality with the GWII.

Now, on to your questions. I'm not sure I understand exactly what you are asking, but I will try to answer. DVI is a current digital interface that has gained some favor to connect various input devices to the GWII. An advantage of DVI is that it will pass an HDCP encoded signal. If I understand correctly, this is how some digital content will be protected. Currently, there are some satellite set top boxes (STB), and scalers that have DVI outputs and some DVD players on the horizon.....The GWII does have a single DVI input. The GWII can receive an HDCP encoded signal via DVI so you will be able to view protected output from an HDCP enabled STB or scaler. In terms of whether you will need a switch for DVI will depend on how many sources with DVI you are running. I guess if you want to have a DVD player with DVI output and an STB with DVI output.....both connected to the single DVI input of the GWII, you would need a DVI switching device. I think Extron and perhaps other manufacturers make such a device.

There are other digital connections on the horizon....and this is perhaps what your salesperson was referring to. HDMI is probably going to compete with DVI, and may ultimately replace it. SDI is another possible digital output from DVD players. Unfortunately, there will always be connector and format wars in all branches of this industry (DVD-A vs SACD etc.). Too bad manufactures can't get together and move to a common standard....but that discussion is for another time and another place!!!

In terms of recording DVD's....i'm not sure what you were getting at or exactly how this pertains. Perhaps someone else can comment on this.

Harry Brandt

UMR,
As I increased the CTL POS from 1 to 2 or 3, the faint yellow line about 1" away from the AVIA resolution circle disappeared. As I went to 4, a purple line showed up on the other side. The IR stays at auto and V POS D at 30. Not sure if you would see the same thing, but to me that indicates an improvement.

As I understand it DVI is a current temporary connection which is HDCP compliant for transfer of digital video data with analog audio.

HDMI provides the same data transfer, but with the ability to feed dolby digital audio as well. The Dolby digital is not really required for the GWII as most of us use a separate audio receiver. So audio receivers will be changing at some point as well. HDMI outputs can be, I'm told connected with a adapter cable to DVI inputs. The HDMI has some extra bandwidth in it for additional tricks the manufactures may add into the system in the future.

You can do a search for DVI & HDMI on the net for further details or:

HDMI FAQ (http://www.hdmi.org/faq/faq.asp)

HDMI (http://www.hdmi.org/)

HDCP (http://www.digital-cp.com/)

DVI & details + IEE1394 firewire (http://www.tagmclarenaudio.com/members/news/news48.asp)

After a few weeks with my GWII, I decided to take it to the next level an applied the tweaks developed by UMR, motjes2 and many others. Thanks to you all for all the hard work.

Russ

UMR or others:

Whoops!!! I moved a couple of values and hadn't written down the baseline. Please let me know your values for:

D-GM IM 2 SUB CON
D-GM IM 2 SUB BRT

Thanks in advance,
Harry

Hi, Harry
I didn't ask a question. I responded to a post of yours when you wrote Sony a letter about DVI converting the digital signal to analog. I was hoping the info I supplied would have been of help to you. It looks like you and others are highly knowledgable about all aspects of this subject. I won't give up, and if I think I have info that might be of use I will post. Thanks for the response and additional info.

Originally posted by Harry Brandt
UMR or others:

Whoops!!! I moved a couple of values and hadn't written down the baseline. Please let me know your values for:

D-GM IM 2 SUB CON
D-GM IM 2 SUB BRT

Thanks in advance,
Harry

My settings are:

D-GM IM #2 SUB CON Value=8
D-GM IM #3 SUB BRT Value=18

Good luck!!!

Originally posted by ugh
Hi, Harry
I didn't ask a question. I responded to a post of yours when you wrote Sony a letter about DVI converting the digital signal to analog. I was hoping the info I supplied would have been of help to you. It looks like you and others are highly knowledgable about all aspects of this subject. I won't give up, and if I think I have info that might be of use I will post. Thanks for the response and additional info.

Hi: Sorry for the confusion. My issue with Sony had to do with the premature conversion of the DVI signal to analog once the signal enters the set. I think we were talking about different things. Anyway...welcome to the thread.

Harry

Originally posted by umr
My settings are:

D-GM IM #2 SUB CON Value=8
D-GM IM #3 SUB BRT Value=18

Good luck!!!

Thanks UMR!!! Did you change these...or were they baseline? Or perhaps they changed as a result of other adjustments. The service manual lists the "standard values" as:

D-GM IM #2 SUB CON Value = 25
D-GM IM #3 SUB BRT Value = 20

Are these related to the contrast and brightness from the user menu?? What do you think these are doing??

Harry

Originally posted by umr
My settings are:

D-GM IM #2 SUB CON Value=8
D-GM IM #3 SUB BRT Value=18

Good luck!!!

Thanks UMR!!! Did you change these...or were they baseline? Or perhaps they changed as a result of other adjustments. The service manual lists the "standard values" as:

D-GM IM #2 SUB CON Value = 25
D-GM IM #3 SUB BRT Value = 20

Are these related to the contrast and brightness from the user menu?? What do you think these are doing??

Harry

Originally posted by Harry Brandt
Thanks UMR!!! Did you change these...or were they baseline? Or perhaps they changed as a result of other adjustments. The service manual lists the "standard values" as:

D-GM IM #2 SUB CON Value = 25
D-GM IM #3 SUB BRT Value = 20

Are these related to the contrast and brightness from the user menu?? What do you think these are doing??

Harry
I have not changed these values in my set. I do not know if they change set to set.

I believe these are levels associated with the projector. Many of the settings are replicated on the projector settings. You can tweak the replicated values in the projector or the XBR side. I generally avoid the projector because it seems to apply to all inputs.

Harry
Could you elaborate on the settings you applied connecting your CS2 to the GWII

Thanks

Originally posted by Robert G
Harry
Could you elaborate on the settings you applied connecting your CS2 to the GWII

Thanks

Hi Robert:

I've tried a number of different output resolutions. Currently, I'm connecting my CS2 to the GWII via DVI and also via a VGA HD15 to Component breakout cable. The DVI inputs to Video7 of the GWII and the Component inputs are to Video6 of the GWII.

I've been using the 720p-EIA-RGB resolution via DVI and 1080i resolution via the component. I've extensively compared these and they look very, very similar.

I'm currently setting my Sony HD200 to "Variable 3" setting and connecting this to the CS2 via DVI. I also have a Pioneer DV47a with the Immersive SDI modification. This is connected to the SDI input of the CS2.

I've been extremely happy with the CS2, particularly in terms of improvement of standard def and tivo inputs. The improvement to HD sources is less apparent but careful testing reveals some improvement in color and motion artifact.

I'm away on vacation, but when I get home i'll put up some comparative screen shots for you, umr, and anyone else who is interested.

Thanks

Hi All. I'm planning on getting the Iscan Ultra to use with my GWII. Does ne1 forsee any problems hooking it up to the tv via DVI?

Also, has anyone tried this before? I'm interested to see if umrs tweaks help or hurt after putting the iscan in place (at least with inputs like the Dish Player 7200). Thanks!

Originally posted by llama
Hi All. I'm planning on getting the Iscan Ultra to use with my GWII. Does ne1 forsee any problems hooking it up to the tv via DVI?

Also, has anyone tried this before? I'm interested to see if umrs tweaks help or hurt after putting the iscan in place (at least with inputs like the Dish Player 7200). Thanks!

Llama,

I think you'll be the first one to use the Iscan Ultra with the GWII. I do not know if yo will have problems connecting through DVI. You should download the GWII XBR Tweaks v4.5 file on the first page of this thread. Under HTPC connection are the resolutions that have been successful connecting through DVI. Please let us know about the Iscan Ultra. This is an expensive equipment and we will like to know your review with or without UMR's tweaks.

All -

I would think the CenterStage CS-2 would be a better choice? If I'm correct, the iScan doesn't do scaling - which would make a world of difference in image quality.

I have been reading with great excitement about the results people have had with the CenterStage in getting better quality out of SD sources. I have to say that I am *very pleased* with the quality I am getting from my Sony DirecTivo connected to my 60" GWII after applying umr's tweaks.

Considering the price of the CS-2, I am still trying to decide if it's worth the price to get an additional 40% improvement (as stated by another user). I have to say it would be great having most sources consoldated onto the DVI input on the GWII though!

Right now, the CS-2 can only output 720P on DVI - which Im sure will eventually be corrected. I have to say that I have seen a bit of a difference in output quality between 720P and 1080i from my Samsung SIR-TS160, so I would prefer to have the CS-2 able to output 1080i via DVI.

In any event, I'de welcome comments from others about this....

Regards,
Aaron

The iScan Ultra might be better or worse or about the same as the CS-2. I believe the person who posted the 40% comment added the tweaks and the CS-2 at about the same time so he was not sure exactly how much the CS-2 added. The value of these devices is probably source and TV (50" or 60") dependent.

I would guess the biggest improvement to be had is probably from bypassing the deinterlacer. All of the test signals I have seen at 480i show a significant roll off of chroma resolution. It would take a high resolution 480i component (not s-video or composite) input though to benefit from this. I have not seen a huge problem with the GWII's deinterlacer performance.

I believe the CS-2 does not correct for chroma delay. When you bring all of your inputs into a single connection at one resolution you will not be able to correct for this in the TV. My Dish 501 has serious chroma delay problems that I would not be able to correct with a CS-2. The CS-2 does scale, but so does the TV. I am not sure which is better at this.

The iScan Ultra does correct for chroma delay which could be a big advantage for it over the CS-2. The lack of scaling might or might not add much. I see about the same amount of scaling problems on HD sources and DVD. Remember the TV is not 1080i or 720p, but requires all other resolutions to be scaled to fit 768p.

I have been promised a CS-2 to test, but I have not heard when yet. I am interested to see what it can do.

umr -

I hope you do get the CS-2 to evaluate, as I will be interested in seeing what your results are.

Your GWII tweaks have made watching of my Sony DirecTivo (Via S-Video to Video 1) much more enjoyable then when I first set up the TV.

I do have to say though, that when watching SD sources (i.e. other directv channels) upconverted by my samsung sir-ts160 and out through DVI, the quality is a bit better than the DirecTivo.

CBS non HD digital material I get OTA - obviously upconverted by their high end equipment - looks REMARKABLY good on the GWII. In this case, the sir-ts160 is just passing CBS's 1080i signal through to the DVI output.

Again, thanks for all your hard work to make your fellow GWII owners a very happy bunch!

Regards,
Aaron

Originally posted by umr
I believe the CS-2 does not correct for chroma delay. When you bring all of your inputs into a single connection at one resolution you will not be able to correct for this in the TV. My Dish 501 has serious chroma delay problems that I would not be able to correct with a CS-2. The CS-2 does scale, but so does the TV. I am not sure which is better at this.

Actually, you have the flexibility to do this with the CS2. You simply can run multiple outputs from the CS2 to various inputs of the GWII. I'm currently running a component input to Video 6 and DVI into Video 7. These different inputs to the GWII can have different tweak settings allowing for the advantages of both.

Harry,

I believe there is only one Y/C delay adjustment for all high resolution inputs 480p to 1080i. You can use the other tweaks, but Y/C delay looks like a problem to me.

Originally posted by umr
Harry,

I believe there is only one Y/C delay adjustment for all high resolution inputs 480p to 1080i. You can use the other tweaks, but Y/C delay looks like a problem to me.

Ah....i didn't know that. Now I understand the issue.

Harry

I've got everything pretty well dialed in, except today I've noticed that when in Zoom mode, the picture oscillates up and down one scan line, several times a second. It's pretty annoying.

None of the other wide modes do this, and it happens in any picture mode. I figure it may have something to do with setting the geometry (overscan, etc), but I'd appreciate any advice to fix this.

I fixed it with some of the MID5 settings, but they didn't seem to stick. By reducting the vertical size by 1 increment I made it go away, so it was indeed a geometry issue.

I started to do some of the setting adjustments and had a question. On the MIDI 1 my original settings are 6 or 7 points higher than what you have posted. Will I need to change the adjusted setting 6 or 7 points higher than what you suggested.

OK...if UMR and others (in the know) are still reading this thread...

After doing all the tweaks on the GWII, my Sony DVD player (in progressive mode) will not show the drop shadow or any blacks blacker than the 6th box in the THX optimizer menu. In interlace mode, the GWII easily shows all blacks. Obviously adjusting brightness allows the proper settings.

Is this a problem with the set that needs servicing? Thanks in advance, guys.

Jeff

Originally posted by CCsoftball7
OK...if UMR and others (in the know) are still reading this thread...

After doing all the tweaks on the GWII, my Sony DVD player (in progressive mode) will not show the drop shadow or any blacks blacker than the 6th box in the THX optimizer menu. In interlace mode, the GWII easily shows all blacks. Obviously adjusting brightness allows the proper settings.

Is this a problem with the set that needs servicing? Thanks in advance, guys.

Jeff

If you are sure your player is preforming properly in progressive and you have tried adjusting brightness in the user and service menu then it is the TV.

I am positive the DVD player is performing correctly. I just replaced a rear projection unit with this one. So, a service call is in order?

Thanks,

Jeff

Originally posted by CCsoftball7
I am positive the DVD player is performing correctly. I just replaced a rear projection unit with this one. So, a service call is in order?

Thanks,

Jeff

That's what I would do.

After doing all the tweaks on the GWII, my Sony DVD player (in progressive mode) will not show the drop shadow or any blacks blacker than the 6th box in the THX optimizer menu. In interlace mode, the GWII easily shows all blacks. Obviously adjusting brightness allows the proper settings.

You might try increasing the BRT parameter in section 2170P-4 of the service menu. You will need to drop the PIC parameter in the same section a little bit, and then re-adjust your user settings. This helped fix a similar problem for me with crushed blacks on both a progressive scan dvd player and the sony playstation 2.

The PIC and BRT settings are stored per user mode (standard/pro/mild/vivid).

Scott

Scott and UMR...thanks. I'll give that a try. I adjusted the DVD player brightness and it helped some, but there is still no "clear" drop shadow.

Where does one gets the THX optimizer menu with THX Optimode screen?
Thanks

Where does one gets the THX optimizer menu with THX Optimode screen?

The screen is in the "newer" THX certified discs (ex. Star Wars, Episode II). On the DVD menu, there is an "option" selection. The THX setup is in that portion of the menu.

UMR,

I believe the BRT setting is for "all" modes, not just the 480p. Is that correct? I would like to find the setting for the 480p only. I don't want to change the brightness for the 1080i or 480i. They are set like I think they should be. Another thing, would it be the UPOG, UBOG settings?

Jeff

Jeff,

I don't have my manual handy so I don't know if BRT is for all modes or not. I would first try and use UBOG myself for this, but BRT should work as well. There are many ways to make this type of adjustment.

I thought you said you tried everything?

I thought I tried everything, but not specifically UBOG - the reason, I hadn't downloaded the service manual at the time. I now have a copy...it looks like UBOG has a setting for 480P component. The settings make much more sense to me now that I can see what table they are associated with. BRT looks as though it is NOT signal independent. I would think I would want to leave this alone. I'll mess with it more when I get my 60 (tomorrow). My brother now has the 50, so my expeirimenting stopped when I took the TV to his house. The biggest issue to me is to see the blacks (that are now crushed) and not over brighten everything else (wash out the screen). Man, it's certainly a fine line.

Thanks again.

Hello all,

Please help. I am a proud owner of a kf-60xbr800. Just got it last week and upgraded to HDTV Cable Box (early adopter cable company). I have applied UMRs tweaks and have seen significant improvements for the digital cable channels, no change for HDTV (which is the clearest picture that I have every seen at my house). Any way, the FAN Noise on this thing is tough to bear. I have it tucked into a corner and am trying sounding deadening against wall, but no great success. Are there any Tweaks to lower the fan noise, or do I just have to turn up the volume and live with it? I do not want to damage the set, however, if this was a PC could add a second fan at ½ the rpms and almost ½ the noise without effecting the flow. Any thoughts?

Thanks
Bob

rpleo,

There are service menu settings for fan speed so you could slow it down. I would not recommend this since it could impact the life some components like the LCD panels. You might also be able to replace the fan in the rear with a quieter version. This is also dangerous for the same reason.

I would monitor the temperature before and after if you decide to do one of these things.

Hi all. I finally got the Iscan Ultra unit I order last week. First let me say that I got this from Onecall for 857 shipped. I also bought a 3 ft DVI cable. Total was around 950 or so. The cool thing was I got free financing until the end of the year. Wippe.

Starting with the equipment in question:
* Grand Wega II 50"
* Philips Q50 DVD Player
* Dish Network Dish Player 7200
* Game Cube
* PS2
* Harmon Kardon AVR8000
* Iscan Ultra

The DVD player, gamecube, and ps2 are all using the component outputs which run into the receiver then out to the Iscan. The DishPlayer uses svideo, again into the receiver and out to the iscan.

I have the Iscan hooked up through the DVI OUTPUT, which seems to work fine. Here's the only 'oddity'. You can select between 640x480 out or 720x480 out. When I choose the 720, the picture on the TV becomes sharper, but there are weird square artifacts everywhere. Almost like the gwII can't scale that resolution properly. The 640x480 seems to work fine.

The first thing I tried was the DVD player. Scene 15 of Attack of the Clones seems to be a good benchmark. It's when the shuttle is landing on the planet, and the there's a good bit of scrolling in the background. Usually this is a bit blurry. With the Iscan in the picture, the scene looks much more 'fluid'. The picture itself seem not quite as sharp, but much better overall. Specifically dealing with motion artifacts and such...

The DishPlayer looks the best. The big thing that bothered me was the motion artifacts. Those are now pretty much gone.

Hopefully I'll have a chance to adjust the color and all that good stuff tonight. I'll also try umrs tweaks in a before/after state.

Hope this helps! Thanks

Originally posted by llama
Hi all. I finally got the Iscan Ultra unit I order last week. First let me say that I got this from Onecall for 857 shipped. I also bought a 3 ft DVI cable. Total was around 950 or so. The cool thing was I got free financing until the end of the year. Wippe.

Starting with the equipment in question:
* Grand Wega II 50"
* Philips Q50 DVD Player
* Dish Network Dish Player 7200
* Game Cube
* PS2
* Harmon Kardon AVR8000
* Iscan Ultra

The DVD player, gamecube, and ps2 are all using the component outputs which run into the receiver then out to the Iscan. The DishPlayer uses svideo, again into the receiver and out to the iscan.

I have the Iscan hooked up through the DVI OUTPUT, which seems to work fine. Here's the only 'oddity'. You can select between 640x480 out or 720x480 out. When I choose the 720, the picture on the TV becomes sharper, but there are weird square artifacts everywhere. Almost like the gwII can't scale that resolution properly. The 640x480 seems to work fine.

The first thing I tried was the DVD player. Scene 15 of Attack of the Clones seems to be a good benchmark. It's when the shuttle is landing on the planet, and the there's a good bit of scrolling in the background. Usually this is a bit blurry. With the Iscan in the picture, the scene looks much more 'fluid'. The picture itself seem not quite as sharp, but much better overall. Specifically dealing with motion artifacts and such...

The DishPlayer looks the best. The big thing that bothered me was the motion artifacts. Those are now pretty much gone.

Hopefully I'll have a chance to adjust the color and all that good stuff tonight. I'll also try umrs tweaks in a before/after state.

Hope this helps! Thanks

Llama, can you post some pics of the your displayer going through the Iscan. Is there a way in the Iscan to manipulate the pixel clock and vertical refresh scan at 720? I only say this because the GWII uses a specific vertical refresh rate and pixel clock speed. If you are out of range, it will not sync with the Iscan.

I'll see what I can do for the pics. I have a good camera, but it's only as good as the user I suppose.

As the the pixel clock and stuff... I'm not sure. The options avaiable on the box itself don't really address that, but there may be some fine tuning I can do inside the unit :-p

You think the DVI would be better than the Component output?

Originally posted by llama
I'll see what I can do for the pics. I have a good camera, but it's only as good as the user I suppose.

As the the pixel clock and stuff... I'm not sure. The options avaiable on the box itself don't really address that, but there may be some fine tuning I can do inside the unit :-p

You think the DVI would be better than the Component output?

I do not have a lot of hardware to connect through DVI, except my HTPC. So, I am the wrong person to answer your question of DVI vs Component on the GWII.

I'll be interested in seeing the pics and also what else you can do in fine tuning the 720p. Please keep us informed of your progress.

Hi Guys,

first of all thank you for the wealth of knowledge provided on this thread and the accompanying .pdf document. I have had the GWII for a few months now and just recently completed my HT set-up with the addition of a Denon 3803 receiver...so I am now anxious to apply the tweaks!

As you may or may not know, one of the main features (and one of the reasons I purchased it) of the 3803 is it's ability for "video upconversion" (for lack of a better term). i.e. I can run all of my components (panny rp91 dvd, sat60 tivo, sat-520 hd dbs, VCR etc.) into the Denon via whatever input, s-vid, component., and it will output all signals through the component outs to the GWII(note: it does NOT upconvert the actual resolution, just outputs the native resolution through the component outputs)...thus, allowing me to run ONLY 1 set of component cables to the GW. (which is nice, cause my components are 16 ft away in a built-in cabinet!)

My question: Because all of my source components are essentially going into the one component input on the GWII, is there anything regarding these tweaks that I should be careful of? or will this set-up not allow me to apply the tweaks as they are designed...i.e. I noticed that each tweak is kind of designed for each input which, in turn, has it's own source component which, in turn, has it's own resolution. OR is this a good thing, as I only have to tweak the respective resolutions (480i, 720p, 1080i) for just the ONE input !

I am a bit confused....any help would be greatly appreciated so that I don't inadvertently mess things up. Thanks Again!

Ok, here's an interesting update on the Iscan. I'm actually getting a much better picture running all stuff through the svideo... The component output was generating some weird kind of artifacts when I uped the res on the Iscan to 720x480. Now everything seems great. Again, I'm using the DVI output from the iscan.

Hi all
Where can you download a service manual for a kf-50xbr800?

It's way back on page 20 or something. I'll be nice though.

http://service-asc.sel.sony.com/SonyESI/pdf/99653500.1/manual.pdf

Just right click it and hit save target as. Let it download. It will be much easyer to view that way. It will take awile to download too.

umr

I adjusted for overscan with MIDI-1 last night on Video 7. When I changed to Video 6 this picture was squised like it was adjusted also. I thought these inputs were independent of each other when making these adjustments. Did I do something wrong? I am currently using 1280x720.

I would assume they are the same if you are looking at similar resolutions 1080i or 720p. These adjustments are not necessarily separate for DVI and component because they use the same circuitry. I believe 480i and 480p are separate though.

Just received my GWII yesterday. After watching last night, all I can say is WOW. It is absolutely unbelievable. If any of you guys are wavering due to size/space, I sit 12 feet from the screen and a 60 is perfect. I wish they made a 70... :) Thanks again to UMR and others for all the efforts they've put into the tweaks.

I adjusted for overscan with MIDI-1 last night on Video 7. When I changed to Video 6 this picture was squised like it was adjusted also. I thought these inputs were independent of each other when making these adjustments. Did I do something wrong? I am currently using 1280x720.

If you check the Service Manual, it will give you a better idea of how the tables are laid out. It looks like one will effect the other. They are signal dependent and not input dependent.

Have GWII 60" since November with flawless performance. Suddenly I am getting what I can only describe as "flicker" especially in white or bright areas. This happens with DVD (component), DirecTV (s-video or DVI). Started yesterday now all the time. Is this a bad bulb? What do you think?

Thanks

Originally posted by scrannel
Have GWII 60" since November with flawless performance. Suddenly I am getting what I can only describe as "flicker" especially in white or bright areas. This happens with DVD (component), DirecTV (s-video or DVI). Started yesterday now all the time. Is this a bad bulb? What do you think?

Thanks

I would suspect that to be the problem based on the Panasonic DLP thread.

As of today, though have scheduled Sony to check on set, flicker down about 90%. We have had huge shift in humidity here in So. Cal. Suspect bulb after reading Pan DLP issues as per umr.

I'm having the same condititon as that posted by a member a couple of months ago... "The left third of screen has a greenish tint and the right side is more reddish. The center is very fine. This shows up clearly when the picture is black/white. It is also noticeable when viewing two side by side talking heads. The one on left has no pinkish/natural appearance but more like paleface. Also left side doesn't appear as finely focused. Most scenes are not noticeably effected."
Has anyone found a solution to this issue??


Thanks,

Easyrider5251
:)

Originally posted by Easyrider5251
I'm having the same condititon as that posted by a member a couple of months ago... "The left third of screen has a greenish tint and the right side is more reddish. The center is very fine. This shows up clearly when the picture is black/white. It is also noticeable when viewing two side by side talking heads. The one on left has no pinkish/natural appearance but more like paleface. Also left side doesn't appear as finely focused. Most scenes are not noticeably effected."
Has anyone found a solution to this issue??


Thanks,

Easyrider5251
:)

I would call Sony so that they can look at it. All the story I have heard so far with this type of problem have no immediate solution but to call Sony. I had a problem like that but it was not green. It was more like brownish on the left side upper coner and right side upper coner. The solution was to replaced the OPTICAL BLOCK. This brought another problem a bright green pixel (and a green spot that you can only see when TV was initializing (turning on)).

I spotted this green spot a few days after the dead pixel. It will not show while watching TV but only while TV was initializing and it was around the dead green pixel. The solution was to change the TV. NOw, I am watching this TV very carefully.

Thanks, Sounds like i'll have to call Sony. Hope this doesn't cause more problems like you had experienced.

Thanks

Originally posted by bbart1
....As you may or may not know, one of the main features (and one of the reasons I purchased it) of the 3803 is it's ability for "video upconversion" (for lack of a better term). i.e. I can run all of my components (panny rp91 dvd, sat60 tivo, sat-520 hd dbs, VCR etc.) into the Denon via whatever input, s-vid, component., and it will output all signals through the component outs to the GWII(note: it does NOT upconvert the actual resolution, just outputs the native resolution through the component outputs)...thus, allowing me to run ONLY 1 set of component cables to the GW. (which is nice, cause my components are 16 ft away in a built-in cabinet!)

My question: Because all of my source components are essentially going into the one component input on the GWII, is there anything regarding these tweaks that I should be careful of? or will this set-up not allow me to apply the tweaks as they are designed...i.e. I noticed that each tweak is kind of designed for each input which, in turn, has it's own source component which, in turn, has it's own resolution.

OR is this a GOOD thing, as I only have to tweak the respective resolutions (480i, 720p, 1080i) for just the ONE input !

I am a bit confused....any help would be greatly appreciated so that I don't inadvertently mess things up. Thanks Again!

Can anyone give me a little guidence/confirmation on this one...nothing too detailed, just if I am understanding it right. I don't want to go through the whole tweak list and then come to find out that it doesn't jive with my set-up.

thanks!

Originally posted by bbart1
Can anyone give me a little guidence/confirmation on this one...nothing too detailed, just if I am understanding it right. I don't want to go through the whole tweak list and then come to find out that it doesn't jive with my set-up.

thanks!


This is my best recommendation to you. If you are going to do this, remember that the input depends on the signal you are sending (720p or 1080i). It might work but I do not know if result will be good for your 480i and 480p signals. It will a good experiment. What I would do, if I were you, is to improve the satellite or cable signal alone (since this more compressed in the source) and would connect the hardware that have components output to the component input of the GWII and tweak separately. Others might a different opinion on this.

Originally posted by Easyrider5251
I'm having the same condititon as that posted by a member a couple of months ago... "The left third of screen has a greenish tint and the right side is more reddish. The center is very fine. This shows up clearly when the picture is black/white. It is also noticeable when viewing two side by side talking heads. The one on left has no pinkish/natural appearance but more like paleface. Also left side doesn't appear as finely focused. Most scenes are not noticeably effected."
Has anyone found a solution to this issue??

I originally posted this problem and have received a solution from Sony.
It seems that having speakers too close to the TV resulted in this condition.
Although Sony recommended that the speakers be moved to 4-6 ft from the set (and plug removed for 1/2 hour), I have removed the speakers from the room completely to test. The tinting problem seems to be gone. I believe overall picture quality seems improved as well, but not sure about that. At any rate, the green tinting seems 95% better, only slightest trace remains, but not objectionable.

I'm thinking of putting together a nice little HTPC for my GWII. When I put this together, I'll probably use a Radeon 9000 or similar card. Just for testing though, I have a PNY ti-4200. When I hook it up through the DVI, it only works in 800x600 with 4bit color... I'm using powerstrip with the right sony monitor driver as per the instructions i found in the pdf file. Any thoughts? Thanks

Originally posted by llama
I'm thinking of putting together a nice little HTPC for my GWII. When I put this together, I'll probably use a Radeon 9000 or similar card. Just for testing though, I have a PNY ti-4200. When I hook it up through the DVI, it only works in 800x600 with 4bit color... I'm using powerstrip with the right sony monitor driver as per the instructions i found in the pdf file. Any thoughts? Thanks

llama,

From reading people's comment on this forum, I have not read another card other than ATI 7500 or 9000 that have been able to work at higher resolutions of 1280x720 or 1360x720. Some ATI 9700 have worked but not all (at this point I do not know why). If you want to do this, get an ATI 7500 or 9000.

Originally posted by hbradar
I originally posted this problem and have received a solution from Sony.
It seems that having speakers too close to the TV resulted in this condition.
Although Sony recommended that the speakers be moved to 4-6 ft from the set (and plug removed for 1/2 hour), I have removed the speakers from the room completely to test. The tinting problem seems to be gone. I believe overall picture quality seems improved as well, but not sure about that. At any rate, the green tinting seems 95% better, only slightest trace remains, but not objectionable.

Dear Hbradar

My Surround sound speakers are shielded but thought I give your recommendation a try. Unfortunately it didn't remove the tint shift on the left side of the screen.

Thanks for the suggestion

Originally posted by Easyrider5251
Dear Hbradar

My Surround sound speakers are shielded but thought I give your recommendation a try. Unfortunately it didn't remove the tint shift on the left side of the screen.

Thanks for the suggestion

Initial observations were too optimistic. The tint is still present on mine as well, although I do feel that it may be somewhat diminshed. At any rate, Sony tech will be out next week.

Originally posted by hbradar
Initial observations were too optimistic. The tint is still present on mine as well, although I do feel that it may be somewhat diminshed. At any rate, Sony tech will be out next week.


Please keep me posted on the Sony's tech visit!! I tried moving the speakers and there was no visible change to the green/brown shift to the left side of the screen.


thanks

motjes,

Have you noticed that when you adjust the service menu settings to get rid of overscan through a DVI HTPC connection the Memory Stick reader stops working (it doesn't give an error, just a black screen). When I set back to the original service menu settings, the memory stick reader works again. Anyone have a solution for this?

Yes I have the same problem with mine memory stick does not work after changing the settings.

Does not matter the pictures look better with the DVI from the computer then off the memory stick reader on the T.V.

I have been trying to figure out what the Image Revision adjustment is doing and I believe I may have figured it out. I believe Image Revision has to do with some type of crosstalk cancellation circuitry.

It seems that when an individual pixel is addressed the LCD address circuitry can actually cause surrounding pixels to activate as well. This effect is greatest when you have a sharp change in brightness. Sony claims to manufacture crosstalk free LCD circuits, but it sounds like they are using some type of cancellation method.

I am not a 100% certain about this, but it sounds consistent with what we have all been seeing. It would also explain how it is adjustable since it is some form of electrical correction to surrounding pixels.

Manufacturers appear to be using a combination of various addressing systems and correction circuitry to fix this problem. I am surprised reviews of LCD projectors and RPTVs have not discussed this problem. Most of the discussions I have found before is related to ghosting (slow refresh), but that is really an unrelated problem.

umr,

Thank you for all of the fantastic information that you've painstakingly compiled over the months of time. I really appreciate all of your posts.

I've been watching DirecTV on my new 50XBR800, and I can't see a difference when I change the IR setting. I'll go watch for the sharp brightness changes and play with the settings some more.

I have the Video Essentials DVD. Is there a particular test pattern that I could use on that disk? I'm seriously considering the purchase of the Avia disk now that I've gotten your document.

Cheers,
Ray

As a new member I would like to thank all those here who have provided such good info on the GWII. I've had my 50 incher with Sony stand for a month & have implemented most of UMR's tweaks with great success. I have no visible pixel problems and the PQ is nothing short of amazing. Our local digital cable (Shaw Cable) here on Vancouver Island is really quite good & I haven't experienced any of the PQ problems that many have had in other parts of North America.

I have 2 observations on my set:

- I have slight ghosting on both sides of vertical lines that is most evident on Avia's 'Sharpness' screen, but can be seen on some parts of DVD movies. No adjustments/tweaks have erradicated them completely; and

- As others have noted here with their sets, my picture is slightly tilted with left side down - probably 1 to 2 degrees. This is not very noticable on 4:3 but in widescreen it can be evident.

I've talked to my local Sony authorized techs, but they have no experience with these sets & therefore have no idea as yet how to correct the tilt, although they are researching the problem with Sony Canada. Unfortunately, it appears that there is no SM item to address this & may require a mechanical adjustment (which I would be reluctant to have done).

Those who have this problem, have you had any success in correcting picture tilt on GWs?

TAM

Originally posted by pacific85
...I have the Video Essentials DVD. Is there a particular test pattern that I could use on that disk? I'm seriously considering the purchase of the Avia disk now that I've gotten your document.

Cheers,
Ray

I would just leave Image Revision on auto if you can't see a difference. The problem is visible on most images if you have it.

VE is very good for gray scale and sharpness. I prefer Avia though for color bars (special) and geometry adjustments. THX Optimizer is my preferred method for picture and brightness though. You may not notice a difference on the color bars though unless you are using a light meter.

Originally posted by exLabDriver
..- I have slight ghosting on both sides of vertical lines that is most evident on Avia's 'Sharpness' screen, but can be seen on some parts of DVD movies. No adjustments/tweaks have erradicated them completely; and..TAM

I would suggest you do the final sharpness adjustment with the Video Essentials pattern. Avia was digitally authored and it appears to have a little bit of an enhanced look compared to VE. "DVD Demystified" has the VE pattern on it if you want to try it instead. It also contains some other very useful test material.

Does anyone know how to set the BRIGHTNESS settings on an input-type-by-input-type basis? I can find the BRT setting under the 2170P-4 service menu catagory just fine, but unlike other items in that catagory it seems to apply for the whole set, not just one input.

I ask because a DVD image via component seems quite a bit brighter than the same image by composite or S-Video, and my other components are suffering while the DVD looks great. :-)

EDIT:

OK... never mind, looks like my UBOG setting wasn't right for those inputs (18 instead of 31). Now it matches component and finally my black level tests look right on composite, S-Video and component.

...Put it down to a 4 AM moment. :-)

But I do have a question: how exactly does UBOG interact with the user menu BRIGHTNESS? Is UBOG merely a way to tweak brightness for a particular input?