Okay, I just got my GWII going (60") and love it so far. I just started tweaking and I'm not sure exactly what I've affected.

If I edit things in Pro mode and then switch to Standard, are all the changes ONLY in Pro mode and thus, not seen in Standard mode or are some changes tied to modes while others are mode independent?

What I've changed so far (all on Input 1 with DirecTV as the source):

I tried umr's User Menu changes and didn't like those at all for some reason. All the colors just looked off to me. Am I alone there? (Page 3 of 12)

I changed PCI-BOOST2 OSP and PKNG. I couldn't see ANY difference with OSP at 0 or 1 but moved it to 1. PKNG resulted in a major WOW factor. It was at 25 and as I dropped it, suddenly DirecTV became watchable. The only negative I see from this is that I've lost a bit of .... focus/sharpness. People now tend to go from sharp to blurry on me. Is this normal?

I also changed VGAM from 28 to 31. Didn't really change very much.

Is this the GAMM setting everyone is talking about? If so, I'm a bit lost as to what the big deal is.

For now, that's all I changed. I assume I've only changed Input 1 in Pro mode, correct?

I looked at PIC-BOOST3/CDLY but wasn't sure what the table was suggesting I do. Is it saying it should be 7 if this is Input 1 for Dish/DirecTV and 0 if it's used for DVD playback? In my case DVD is on Input 5 so I suspect I'd need to change this while I'm in Input 5.

BTW, while I'm at it, has anyone found a way to mute the TV without displaying MUTE? I use a Home Theater Master MX-500 remote to do a nice discreet macro that: Does a discreet power on of the TV, discreet power on of the receiver, discreet power on of the DVD, sets the receiver to DVD mode, sets the TV to Input 5 and then sets the remote to the right page for the DVD controls.

The one problem I have with this is that I now have a nice 5.1 setup all ready to go but the TV volume is still on. Yes, I know 90% of you probably don't use the TV speakers at all, but my wife insists on it for standard TV watching. She HATES having to be running all the extra stuff just to watch TV. Thus, I must keep that on so I'd like to find an effective, immediate way to kill the TV volume when going into DVD mode.

Hey guys (and gals),

Just wanted to share my experience...

After MUCH viewing and comparing, I do not think the UMR tweaks are for me. My cable PQ is already fine for the most part so it didn't help there too much, and for everything else I prefer the 'Vivid' mode with the sharpness turned down a few notches and the color temp set to 'Neutral'. It may not be the best setting on test patterns, but for DVD's and games, it is by far my favorite. It also looks MUCH more 3-D to me.

It's funny, UMR's tweaks are supposed to help the 'washed out' look, but in comparing the modes, 'Pro' now looks the most washed out (except for 'Mild'). Maybe I am doing something wrong but my #'s all match the guides. Also, in pausing SW Ep. II DVD at a space scene and cycling through the picture modes, the are twice as many stars under 'Vivid' and 'standard' than 'Pro'. I seem to be losing a lot of dark definition in "pro'. The 'Vivid' mode also seems to have a better contrast to me. Blacks looks richer.

PLEASE do not take offense to my post UMR or anyone else. I appreciate the unbelievable amount of work and knowledge that has gone into these 'tweaks' and I think we have ALL gained an amazing amount of knowledge. These are just my opinions of the tweaks. They're just not quite doing it for me.

Anyway, I do thank everyone for such valuable information regarding this incredible TV set !!!!

Happy viewing !

Originally posted by Spooky
... Maybe I am doing something wrong but my #'s all match the guides...

You are definitely doing it wrong. The guide does not tell you to copy all the numbers. You need to calibrate your set individually for color, picture, brightness, sharpness, hue, color decoder, gray scale and Y/C delay.

You can watch it however you want to though.

Hi Folks,

I am thinking about getting the 50" set but when I saw it at the stores (Frys and Goodguys), I was kind disappointed at the PQ. It does not look worth 3K set. The picture was kind blur when playing DTV, Sony s715 DVD via component cable comparing to others, such as Sharp LCD. Is this because the store did not have it setup correctly or it's what I would expect to see from the set? I can get this set direct from Sony for 3200 (TV + stand + Tax). Can you share your oppion? I also heard that Sony will come out with new technology that will surpass the LCD TV somtime this year. Do any of you have any info on this regarding the price range and how it would compare to the WEGA LCD?


Thanks,
Ted

I thought this would be the best place to post this to get a fast answer.

Is there a recommended pedestal height range for the 60xbr800 that affects optimal vertical viewing angle? I'm trying to decide on the right furniture. I'm stuck between a piece 21 1/4" high and a piece 33 3/4" high. Is this even an issue? Thanks.

Mine is on a temporary stand now that is 24" high and everyone who sees it says it's up WAY too high. The Sony stand that was designed for it is just 18" high and I'm really looking forward to getting it down to that height.

Ted, how are you going to get this set direct from Sony for only $3200 with the stand and tax? Is this a deal others can get?

I have a freind who works for Sony and he is nice enough to buy it for me.

How does you TV compares to other rear projection TVs and LCD? I visited Frys, GoodGuys, Circuit CT, others and the picture look horrible there. But from this thread it sounds like the TV is very good. Can you share your oppion? I need to make the decision ASAP before my freind changes his mind:)

Thanks,
Ted

If you looked into any of my threads on it, I looked at several sets at various retailers head-to-head and decided on a Sony KP-65WV700. I thought about the GWII but it was about $1,000 more than I wanted to spend and I was worried about LCD ghosting issues. Well, the RPTV all had a couple of issues I just didn't like. First, they're huge. Second most appeared a bit grainy to me. Worst of all, nearly everyone I spoke with about them kept driving home how much work it was to own one. "Don't watch CNN too much on it." "Don't watch standard TV more than 20% of the time." "Mix up what you watch." Burn-in was such a concern that everyone seemed fine with changing their viewing habits to work around it. I want my TV to work WITH me for watching TV, not against me, so when the set had trouble, back it went.

I then figured, what the hell, let's give the GWII a shot. I am NOT a video enthusiast. I just like to own decent equipment. I own a 36" Sony XBR-250 that has a tremendous picture but just wasn't big enough, wasn't 16:9 and couldn't do HDTV. If they sold a tube-based 45" widescreen that did HDTV, I'd have bought that instead. Alas, they don't make one. So, this set showed up and IMMEDIATELY everyone in my house was blown away. The picture is SO movie-like. Standard TV could be better but every screen this large has issues and with some tweaking, I cleaned it all up quite nicely. What's more, no burn-in. Regular TV has black bars and that's fine with me. I don't have to worry about my 8 year-old son forgotting to turn off the TV now and burn in the word "GAME" onto the set, etc.

With some more tweaking, the picture has just gone from great to WOW and still improving. It's not perfect, but nothing outside of the tubes are these days. The blacks everyone talks about are fine to me. Sure, they're not as dark as the black around the frame of the TV but everything looks nice and black to me. I suspect this is a critique from video-philes and not regular consumers. My wife has not once said anything about the black not being black.

I also looked at it right next to the Samsung unit, twice and it looked better in both cases. I had them pop in a DVD and preferred the GWII both times.

I can't tell you anything about HDTV until tomorrow (Tuesday) as that's when mine finally gets put in but DVD's look excellent on them. The set does have a sweet spot and it's more a vertical issue than horizontal one. If the set is up too high or too low, you won't get as good a picture as a dead on view. Off the sides it's rather impressive but does wash out on excessive angles and is unwatchable on extreme angles of course.

I suspect what will bother me most is that it "only" has one DVI port, which is of course 1 more than most TV's already. I say this because most HDTV receivers AND DVD players are going to DVI ports so there will be a fight over that single port rather quickly. I almost suspect a conspiracy from Monster Cable to get us to buy new cables. <grin>

For my viewing habits and mixed viewing needs, this TV delivers in nearly every way. The RPTV's I tried nearly got me hyperventilating with anxiety from worrying about burn-in and such and that's no way to feel about an expensive of that type.

For what it's worth (since it's opinion),

I agree with the last poster that the black level thing is overblown. That's not to say that it couldn't be better and I would certainly prefer better, but given the current set of tradeoffs between the various TV technologies the GW is very good.

I think the worse case for the GW is in a pitch black room. In that situation the 'dark grey' blacks are noticeable and perhaps even annoying. In a dimly lit room the black levels look fine; not as good as a good crt set, but pretty darn good and the resolution can't be beat.

I just wonder how good the next announced LCos-like technology Sony has will be and how much it will cost. Sony claims true HD resolution with a huge contrast ratio, much less (or none) 'screen door' effect, etc.

-- Steve

Here's hoping that his rumoured technology takes about 5 years to mature and get within price reach. For me, if it's affordable by Christmas or early next year, I'll want to shoot myself. <grin>

I have my 100mm x 100mm CC20R in my hand. This weekend I hopefully will be able to install it.:D

Many pictures and measurements to follow.

Originally posted by umr
I have my 100mm x 100mm CC20R in my hand. This weekend I hopefully will be able to install it.:D

Many pictures and measurements to follow.


I look forward to those :)

Originally posted by umr
I have my 100mm x 100mm CC20R in my hand. This weekend I hopefully will be able to install it.:D

What is the ultimate hope of this? To correct black?

Originally posted by Agrajag
What is the ultimate hope of this? To correct black? Increase contrast ratio, color correct 0-10 percent blacks and reduce the brightness of 0 percent blacks.

Looking forward to hearing about this. Is it the sort of thing mere mortals might be able to do?

Well, I have read all the postings so far and there is something I don't get about all this tweaking. I have used the Avia DVD to do the calibrations and I am partly satisfied with the results I have achieved. However, while some channels have really good PQ, others look like they're under water with some odd sharpness-lacking resolutions. I put this down to the originating TV station and am I of the opinion that no amount of tweaking is going to improve the resolutions of these stations.

I have noted that irrespective of all the calibrations, the PQ of the HDTV channels appears, to me at least, to remain unchanged. I don't see how the HD PQ can possibly be improved upon either by tweaking or calibrating. I'd be quite content to leave the HD as is. As it is, I am having to make do with the #285,#286,#287 HDTV channels on BEV, while waiting impatiently for the 20" dish installer to call. I don't know what to expect after I can receive the 10-11 HDTV channels, whether the PQ will remain the same as now on all of them, or whether they too will vary in PQ.

Are there GWII owners who thought the same as I do now and yet still went ahead with the umr tweaking and possibly the full pro-calibrating service and were still impressed with any improvement in PQ on both SD and HD channels ? I'd really appreciate hearing from you. Thanks.

I just got my 50'' GWII last week. As others have mentioned here with their sets, my picture is also tilted with left side down. I just wonder if this is a common problem. Have anyone solved this problem?

Thanks

Andy

, my picture is also tilted with left side down. I just wonder if this is a common problem. Have anyone solved this problem?

Thanks

Andy

After 4 weeks.... I feel I have the same tilt to the left....and it starts to frustrate me...

Has anyone who has implemented UMR tweaks also had an ISF Calibration. I'd be interested in knowing the extent of changes in PQ and which service menu items were focused on. Also, what's a reasonable charge per input of an ISF calibration? I'm quite happy with my current PQ, but always looking for further improvement. UMR...I'd be interested in your opinion about the value of an ISF calibration also.

Regards to all,
Harry Brandt

As I brought subject this up last week, I went back to re-read the entire thread to see if there was any further info on the left leaning picture tilt. I came across URM's AVIA Resoulution JPG on page 19 and it appears to me that the pattern in the pic has the same tilt as my set and may be quite common. I have a feeling that it might be a mirror geometry issue or the way that the projector is mounted in the base of the set.

With a front projector or slide projector, one could just adjust the feet to level the image on gthe screen. I wonder if a shim (washer) under one side of the projector would do the trick.

Again, I'm very reluctant to have anything mechanical done to this set & I may just have to live with it unless someone (Sony?) comes up with a proper fix.

TAM

I think it can be fixed rather easy if you look on the lens you will see a wing nut that can be adjusted.


I have not tried.

"As I brought subject this up last week, I went back to re-read the entire thread to see if there was any further info on the left leaning picture tilt. I came across URM's AVIA Resoulution JPG on page 19 and it appears to me that the pattern in the pic has the same tilt as my set and may be quite common. "

I too now notice the 'tilt'. On a 2:35:1 aspect ration movie, the black bar at the top of the screen is about a half inch larger on the far left side as it is on the far right. It is not as noticeable on the bottom for some reason, but annoying none-the-less.

I can even see it a little when I go into 'Wide Zoom' on regular TV and look at a constant line at the top or bottom like a news or sports ticker. I have to really look with this example though. The widescreen movie is slightly more noticeable.



HELP !?!?!?!?!??!

Anyone gotten any further with this issue ????

Originally posted by Spooky
Anyone gotten any further with this issue ????

While I still have it, my 60" has the same problem as does the 50" at the Tweeter store here.

Originally posted by Agrajag
While I still have it, my 60" has the same problem as does the 50" at the Tweeter store here.
Curious...

I wonder if it is inherent in these sets. :confused:

While it is not a very big deal, it is somewhat noticeable. I would not come close to considering a different set because of it, but if it can be easily fixed, I'm all for it.

Maybe a better question for this 'tilt' issue should be, is anybody NOT experiencing this 'tilt' ???

I've had my 50" for about 3 months now, and have not done the tweaks, don't have any bad pixels, and mine does not tilt. I'm very happy with my set, even with standard cable. I'm probably wrong in saying this, but I really can't see how my picture could be much better than it is, even with the tweaks, although I do appreciate all the work UMR and others have done.

Originally posted by Spooky
Maybe a better question for this 'tilt' issue should be, is anybody NOT experiencing this 'tilt' ???

I'm not experiencing any tilt whatsoever. I'm only using the Video 7 DVI input.

Harry Brandt

I'm inclined to say that my GWII does NOT have a tilt. ;)

My opinion would lean towards: No visible tilt of my GWII (the picture, not the TV)... ;)

I only have the tilt problem on payday, after I cash my check. I carry my wallet in my right rear pocket and thus I tilt toward the left. Problem usually disappears within a couple of days. Hope this helps.:D

No tilt here (noticeable)

I just installed the Lee CC20R in my set and it is too small by about 5mm in width. :( It is a shame the blacks do look good at the moment, but I have a small uncorrected bar on each side. I guess I'll just leave it in for now.

I ordered a Kodak 6x6 gel for my next attempt. I wish I would have discovered this before it sure would be easier to slip that gel in instead of the Lee resin filter.

I have not noticed any negatives so far except for it being too small.

I have not recalibrated yet because it is fairly bright still.

Originally posted by umr
I just installed the Lee CC20R in my set and it is too small by about 5mm in width. :( It is a shame the blacks do look good at the moment, but I have a small uncorrected bar on each side. I guess I'll just leave it in for now.

I ordered a Kodak 6x6 gel for my next attempt. I wish I would have discovered this before it sure would be easier to slip that gel in instead of the Lee resin filter.

I have not noticed any negatives so far except for it being too small.

I have not recalibrated yet because it is fairly bright still.

UMR:

I hope you are well!! Would you please give us a bit more information about the filter install. Was it simple or difficult?? Could you describe the degree of difference in black between the uncorrected bars and the corrected area?? Also, do you have a preliminary take on the impact on color balance. I'm trying to decide whether a filter would be worth the effort.

Also, I've decided to let Chuck Williams of Williams Electronics do an ISF Calibration of my set. He'll be able to adjust an input with the Centerstage 2 and one without so we'll get some objective comparison.

Regards,
Harry Brandt

Harry,

I was waiting to post until I had some more time to watch it in the dark. I would still not recommend this set for a pitch black room, but low lighting is now very good.

The filter install required:

- removing about 20 screws front and back
- removing the back cover
- removing a metal support in the back
- removing all the inputs on the back
- removing the left and right access covers on the front of the set
- removing the front access cover to the projector lens
- removing the mirror/screen assembly
- mounting the filter above the projector lens.
- recalibrating the brightness, gray scale and color decoder

- putting it all back together

The most difficult part of the installation was putting the mirror/screen assembly back on. This was a three person job.

I was not able to mount the lens properly because of the size issue, but it is sitting such that it covers most of the light path (~95%).

My on/off contrast ratio measures out at about 400:1 instead of about 300:1. The lowest level blacks appear to be about as bright as the Samsung DLP's with the filter while the set is about 60% as bright at 100 IRE. I have not seen any reflection problems caused by the filter, but the maximum light output did drop a little because my green panel saturated early.

I have not measured the accuracy of the gray scale with an instrument at this point, but it is an obvious improvement. The dramatic shift to blue is gone. I do not know how close it is to D65 at 0%, but it is much closer than it was. I would not say that it is perfect, but I can easily live with this level of performance.

The increase in contrast ratio is very noticeable along with the improvement of color accuracy at low levels. I was watching several scenes with challenging black levels that I was very familiar with before and it is much better today. I was also looking at some scenes that did not compare well to a Sim 300+ in the past where contrast ratio lacked. Today the difference between the Sim and this set are not nearly so obvious. Going from 300 to 400:1 contrast ratio is a big improvement.

My son complained that the blacks are now too dark. He did not think it looked like a TV anymore. He thought the blacks should not look black on a TV. :D

umr:

Thanks for the quick reply. I'll anxiously wait for your full report, but it sounds like the improvement in contrast ratio and color balance will likely be worth the reduction in light output. Where did you order your Kodak gel from....and did you get a decent price?

Harry

I ordered it from Adorama for about $50. This filter can probably be installed by only removing the front panels. I will advise on how and if it needs to be trimmed to fit.

I am not sure everyone will suffer a drop in light output. I have read some posts where people have not been limited by their green or blue panel. That should allow them to maintain the same light output and an even higher contrast ratio.

umr:

While you had your set apart, did you notice any kind of adjustment mechanisms on the mirror assembly or the projector that might correct the picture tilt that some us seem to have?

Tom

exLabDriver.

Yes. I mentioned this in other posts as well.

I'm pretty sure someone has posted regarding this before, but I've had no luck finding useful info:

I've attached an HTPC with a GeForce 4200Ti that I've attached to the GWII via DVI. I'm running WinXP SP 1 with NVidia's 43.45 drivers and PowerStrip 3.4. I've tried, with much futility to break the vertical limit of 540 lines (ultimately trying to achieve the much touted 1360x720). Unfortunately, regardless of the monitor driver that I use (I've tried the Sony setting as per UMR's Tweak Faq), PowerStrip forces the limitation to the EDID values of 1920 x 540. I can't deactivate the plug-n-play check box under the Monitor Information screen, nor does PowerStrip let me force a vertical resolution greater than 540. It tells me that that is beyond the capabilities of the monitor.

My question is this:
Is there a way for me to overcome the 540 limitation? If not, is this a limitation of the GeForce card or the new version of PowerStrip that reads EDID info over DVI and forces a limit?

Al

Originally posted by golov
I'm pretty sure someone has posted regarding this before, but I've had no luck finding useful info:

I've attached an HTPC with a GeForce 4200Ti that I've attached to the GWII via DVI. I'm running WinXP SP 1 with NVidia's 43.45 drivers and PowerStrip 3.4. I've tried, with much futility to break the vertical limit of 540 lines (ultimately trying to achieve the much touted 1360x720). Unfortunately, regardless of the monitor driver that I use (I've tried the Sony setting as per UMR's Tweak Faq), PowerStrip forces the limitation to the EDID values of 1920 x 540. I can't deactivate the plug-n-play check box under the Monitor Information screen, nor does PowerStrip let me force a vertical resolution greater than 540. It tells me that that is beyond the capabilities of the monitor.

My question is this:
Is there a way for me to overcome the 540 limitation? If not, is this a limitation of the GeForce card or the new version of PowerStrip that reads EDID info over DVI and forces a limit?

Al

Nobody has been able to break beyond 540 with this type of card. ATI cards, 9000, 8500 and 9700 have been able to break beyond 540 with overscan that needed to be corrected through the service menu.

Originally posted by golov

My question is this:
Is there a way for me to overcome the 540 limitation? If not, is this a limitation of the GeForce card or the new version of PowerStrip that reads EDID info over DVI and forces a limit?

Al

I think it's actually the nVidia display driver that's doing everything by the book. I believe ATI's drivers don't enforce the EDID info it reads from the display device while Nvidia's do.

umr:
Please keep us updated on the Kodak filter. If it's a relatively painless way to improve the contrast ratio I'm sure we'll all be very excited to try it out.

Here is a photo that compares my set before and after the CC20R. I did not try and adjust the levels or color balance these photos. These are straight off the camera. The uncorrected one is a little exaggerated, but the corrected one represents the blacks pretty well. The color on the TV is better than the photo though.

UMR -

I don't suppose you will supply those of us geeks that *may* be willing to attempt this modification with the information to buy and install this filter?

More importantly - in your opinion - is this mod worth it?

Also - how difficult do you actually think this would be for geeks like me who build their own computers and are pretty good with tools and such?

I assume this mod would void the warranty on the set - or would we be able to remove the filter so our warranty could stay intact if we needed to get it serviced?

Thanks for your help as ALWAYS - you're the GW man!!!

Aaron

I don't suppose you will supply those of us geeks that *may* be willing to attempt this modification with the information to buy and install this filter?

I have posted above what I did, but I will post more once I have the final setup.

More importantly - in your opinion - is this mod worth it?

Yes. Don't you, after seeing these photos? The only negatives I see are reduced light output and a little more scattered light. Internal reflections seem to be a little less for some reason.

Also - how difficult do you actually think this would be for geeks like me who build their own computers and are pretty good with tools and such?

Probably not too difficult.

I assume this mod would void the warranty on the set - or would we be able to remove the filter so our warranty could stay intact if we needed to get it serviced?

I did nothing that could not be removed later. The filter just sits above the projector lens.

Thanks UMR!!!

I definately though the images proved that the using the filter was *definately* worth it - but I didn't know how difficulty 20 screws etc... to get it in there was....

When you get your final specs ironed out, could you please post some detailed instructions on where to order the filter and how to install it?

Thanks!!!
Aaron

--------------------------------------------
Two Additions:
--------------------------------------------

UMR - is this the gel you bought?

http://www.adorama.com/catalog.tpl?op=details&sid=1052186834116363151&sku=KKWF6CC20R

Also - as indicated in your posts - can one install this gel by just removing the frint access panels - or will we need to do the whole procedure you outlined above - including needing 3 people to replace the screen/mirrir assembly?

Thanks again!
Aaron

Originally posted by aaron.s
....

UMR - is this the gel you bought?

http://www.adorama.com/catalog.tpl?op=details&sid=1052186834116363151&sku=KKWF6CC20R

Also - as indicated in your posts - can one install this gel by just removing the frint access panels - or will we need to do the whole procedure you outlined above - including needing 3 people to replace the screen/mirrir assembly?

Thanks again!
Aaron That is the gel I bought, but I don't have that one yet. I believe it can be installed by just removing the front access panel. I have not been able to try it yet though. As always do this at your own risk.

UMR -

I'm going to wait until your final report -- just want to be "ready" to order it if your final report gets a thumbs up! I hope you're right about the front access covers though!

So the picture you did is of the smaller filter that only covers 95% of the screen I take it?

Aaron

Originally posted by aaron.s
UMR -

I'm going to wait until your final report -- just want to be "ready" to order it if your final report gets a thumbs up! I hope you're right about the front access covers though!

So the picture you did is of the smaller filter that only covers 95% of the screen I take it?

Aaron

Yes.:D

There is a little problem on the left edge. You can see it if you look closely.

Here are some more photos that I have tried to adjust to accurately portray my sets picture. Note the black border of the frame is on each shot as a reference.

Another:

Next.

Again.

Somebody stop me....

Here is a photo of my last installation. People have asked for this even though I don't like it. I used nylon screws to position it above the lens. It rests on little feet.

Here is a close-up of it.

This is so darn intrguing! If this works (and it appears that it does) I CANNOT wait to give this a try!
Two questions:

Will gray scale have to be redone after this?

I can't really tell what the filter is resting on. I see that the nylon screws are lifting it up a bit. What little feet were you refering to?

The feet are the screws. They rest on a flat area that is part of the projector lens. I do not recommend this though because it did not totally work.

You must recalibrate the gray scale and color decoder once this is complete.

It definately works for my TV. I don't know if everyone elses will though.

UMR -

Thanks for the additional photos.....

** UTTERLY STUNNING RESULTS **

Now I'm definately interested to see how you make out when you receive the 6x6 gelatin filter and what will be needed to install it.

Now I can't wait to apply this modification!!!!!

--> Any idea when you'll be receiving the new filter?

Aaron

Originally posted by aaron.s
....--> Any idea when you'll be receiving the new filter?

Aaron

They said about two weeks.

Great work UMR!

Very Impressive!

Will be waiting for the final pics of the second install following your always great instructions.

UMR,

Did you consider installing the gel by the lamp before the light gets to the optical block instead of installing it above the projection lens? It seems to me that might be an easier install and might achieve similar results. What do you think?

-S

Originally posted by SourceError
UMR,

Did you consider installing the gel by the lamp before the light gets to the optical block instead of installing it above the projection lens? It seems to me that might be an easier install and might achieve similar results. What do you think?

-S

I used such filter in the past for other applications.
If you put the filter too close to the lamp - they will melt...

Originally posted by Robert G
I used such filter in the past for other applications.
If you put the filter too close to the lamp - they will melt...

I thought they used acetate gels in stage lighting because they were resistant to heat. I guess if it's too close it might be a problem. Alternatively you could use something like a neutral density camera filter which is made of glass. It's hard to believe that Sony wouldn't tune the wattage of the lamp down so that you could get a better black level.

-S

Originally posted by SourceError
UMR,

Did you consider installing the gel by the lamp before the light gets to the optical block instead of installing it above the projection lens? It seems to me that might be an easier install and might achieve similar results. What do you think?

-S

I considered that and chose to avoid it for the reason Robert gave (melting). I did not want a mess on my hands and a ruined optical block.

Originally posted by SourceError
... I guess if it's too close it might be a problem. Alternatively you could use something like a neutral density camera filter which is made of glass. It's hard to believe that Sony wouldn't tune the wattage of the lamp down so that you could get a better black level.

-S

You might be able to use a glass filter, but I did not use a neutral density.

There are really three problems that I was addressing with the CC20R. The first was a strong shift to blue at low light levels. The other was the level being too high at 0% and finally a low contrast ratio.

The color correction filter helps all of these. Some posts indicate others may see an even greater increase in contrast.

I would guess Sony is trying to get the best light output they can for bright showrooms. They also do not appear to be tweaking each set to its optimum.

It is possible a CC20R would not be the best choice for every GWII. For example, a CC30R might be better if you had more green and blue panel to work with than I did and you were willing to sacrifice some accuracy for increased contrast.

umr,

Hey. I bought my 50" GWII about 3 or 4 days ago.

Picture on HD looks awesome. DVD is pretty good.

Digital Calbe (running through component) is not impresive at all. I can barely stand to watch the picture.

Maybe it's just me, or maybe I'm just blind, but I downloaded the first link to a .pdf file in this thread (page 1). I took it to Kinko's, printed it, had it bound, and took it home. I sat down and started to read, and I don't see all of the tweaks that I am hearing about. For one I am hearing about some tweaks that enhance SD on this set, yet I can't find them. I have worked with the Sony Service Menus before, but not for this particular set.

If you could provide a little more insight as to enhacing and/or improving a SD signal on this TV set I would really appreciate it.

Thanks,
-Chris

Originally posted by csull
...If you could provide a little more insight as to enhacing and/or improving a SD signal on this TV set I would really appreciate it.

Thanks,
-Chris

Actually about everything in the tweaks applies to SD (480i) signals. A few of the tweaks do nothing for HD while most others do. You should just go through the list and do the ones you want.

Originally posted by csull
Maybe it's just me, or maybe I'm just blind, but I downloaded the first link to a .pdf file in this thread (page 1). I took it to Kinko's, printed it, had it bound, and took it home. I sat down and started to read, and I don't see all of the tweaks that I am hearing about. For one I am hearing about some tweaks that enhance SD on this set, yet I can't find them.

...

Hey all/umr,

Quick thanks for all the posts. I got the 50xbr last week. I tried the receipt method at 3 different CC, didn't work. But i got it for that price at Good Guys (open box - noisy fan). Yup, the fan is noisy. But they said if its too loud I can get it replaced.
questions:

1. I have a Toshiba progressive DVD player on Video 5, and regular cable. I have the Avia disk and UMR's tweaks ready to go. In the tweaks there are * saying use for DVD pro mode only, does that mean to use all the tweaks including those listed with a * for video 5? Or use ONLY the * ones for dvd input video 5 and none others?

2. I know there is a listed order of steps, but I'm still confused. When I get down the list to Avia, exactly which tests do I do while using the avia disk? All of them? Select ones? If so, which?

3. What mode do you all use for watching standard cable? Pro as well?

4. Is there a list of tweaks I don't or shoudn't need to do as I have a progressive scan dvd player? There seems to be conflicting info here. Does someone who has set up a prog. scan dvd player have an easier step by step instructions on how to perform tweaks and use Avia and in which order?

6. Are some gwII's fan's louder/quieter than others? My fan is loud, but i only have 2-4 dead pixels and 0 bright ones. If i get it replaced I may end up with lots of dead/bright ones and another noisy fan?

I am having a custom stand build and when it's finished i'll post a picture.
Thanks so much everyone for the good info. Its why I bought the tv.

-Bill

1. I have a Toshiba progressive DVD player on Video 5, and regular cable. I have the Avia disk and UMR's tweaks ready to go. In the tweaks there are * saying use for DVD pro mode only, does that mean to use all the tweaks including those listed with a * for video 5? Or use ONLY the * ones for dvd input video 5 and none others?

I would suggest you copy the values determined from the DVD player to the other input types you have when it is marked with a *.

2. I know there is a listed order of steps, but I'm still confused. When I get down the list to Avia, exactly which tests do I do while using the avia disk? All of them? Select ones? If so, which?

You use Avia when it says to use Avia. Page 14 of 24 lists the Avia test patterns I use for specific calibrations.

3. What mode do you all use for watching standard cable? Pro as well?

Yes, I use Pro for everything.

4. Is there a list of tweaks I don't or shoudn't need to do as I have a progressive scan dvd player? There seems to be conflicting info here. Does someone who has set up a prog. scan dvd player have an easier step by step instructions on how to perform tweaks and use Avia and in which order?

PIC-BOOST does nothing for an HD or progressive input. You can just skip the PIC-BOOST items if you want or do them for the progressive input it does not matter. I tried to simplify it by not having a complex decision tree depending on the input type unless it was necessary.

6. Are some gwII's fan's louder/quieter than others? My fan is loud, but i only have 2-4 dead pixels and 0 bright ones. If i get it replaced I may end up with lots of dead/bright ones and another noisy fan?

It seems like the fan noise does vary between sets and how they are located. I would just get the fan replaced.

After reading UMR's filter mod, I thought that I would try a quick experiment to try to easily simulate what he is doing.

Last night I watched many of the dark scenes in the 'Terminator' DVD thru medium gray sunglasses. While this will not give an absolutely correct display, the effect was quite pleasing. Blacks were black and the bluish haze disappeared. The GWII's picture is so bright (perhaps to its detriment) that the picture was still excellent.

Try it and you will see what I think is a reasonable facsimile of what UMR's filter does; however, be sure not to let anyone see you doing it!

Now if the glasses could cure my picture tilt......

Tom

exLabDriver,

What you saw is about 1/3 of what the filter tweak is doing. You are not getting increased contrast or more accurate near black colors with that method.

umr:

I agree that your mod is undoubtedly far better. It was just a quick experiment to see where you were going with your filter mod.

Tom

I too have tried umr's tweaks'several times.But end up hiting 8 enter in the service mode for the factory settings.I worked at magnovox and know first hand that no two tv,s are alike.My tv is perfect at factory settings,yours may be too......But umr's tweaks are great for those that need them.I'm a born tweeker but if it don't need it ,leave it be.It like a shadetree mechanic waiting for the warrenty to run out on a new car so I can mess with it.But I quess I should count my blessings and enjoye my gwll.thanks SONY!
shine'ola

Originally posted by shine'ola
I too have tried umr's tweaks'several times.But end up hiting 8 enter in the service mode for the factory settings.I worked at magnovox and know first hand that no two tv,s are alike.My tv is perfect at factory settings,yours may be too......But umr's tweaks are great for those that need them.I'm a born tweeker but if it don't need it ,leave it be.It like a shadetree mechanic waiting for the warrenty to run out on a new car so I can mess with it.But I quess I should count my blessings and enjoye my gwll.thanks SONY!
shine'ola

What does 8 + ENTER do?

Does it restore ALL the settings to the Service Manual settings?

I noticed when I did some of umr's tweaks that some of my TVs settings were NOT identical to what's listed in the SM book. Now, I believe there are a couple wrong values in some of the charts, but I do believe that my TV had a few from-the-factory settings different than the Service Manual lists.

So, what happens if I do 8 + ENTER?

Originally posted by shine'ola
I too have tried umr's tweaks'several times.But end up hiting 8 enter in the service mode for the factory settings.I worked at magnovox and know first hand that no two tv,s are alike.My tv is perfect at factory settings,yours may be too......But umr's tweaks are great for those that need them.I'm a born tweeker but if it don't need it ,leave it be.It like a shadetree mechanic waiting for the warrenty to run out on a new car so I can mess with it.But I quess I should count my blessings and enjoye my gwll.thanks SONY!
shine'ola

What happens if I hit 8 + ENTER?

Some of my original settings were NOT identical to what the SM charts show. (I think a couple of the SM charts have wrong data -- mistypes by SONY, I believe -- , but there were still a couple settings that didn't match the ones in the chart).

So if I hit 8 + ENTER, what will I have on my TV? The SM chart figures for all inputs? For just the Input I'm currently in? Or what?

Thanks for your help in setting up my HTTP with the GWII. I love the high res!
Has anyone been able to come up with functional PowerStrip settings for either 800x600 or 1024x768?

-golov

I NEVER RECOMMENDED PRESSING 8+ENTER AND I HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT IT WILL DO.:rolleyes:

Originally posted by umr
I NEVER RECOMMENDED PRESSING 8+ENTER AND I HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT IT WILL DO.:rolleyes:

That's what I've always thought.

I figured "8+ENTER" must realign the earth's magnetic axis or something absolutely devastating like that.

umr,

Hi, great work here on the TV, I got a 60" GW2 and am interested in
applying the modifications.

One thing I am running into, while playing some of the DVDs, I get
bands along the top and bottom regardless of the wide mode I set
the TV to. The DVD is a widescreen version, and I would expect to
see the bands on a 4:3 screen, but the manual says that zoom mode
(or wide zoom) will increase the size of the picture to fit the screen.
The bands that I see vary between being about five inches wide on
top and bottom to being about three inches in the zoom mode. I was expecting it to fill the entire screen. Is this normal? Nothing in the
menus seems to allow me to stretch the screen more vertically, does
anything in the service menu?

Thanks for any help you can provide.

What,

The black bars across the top and bottom of the screen are normal for some widescreen movies, even on 16x9 TV's.

There are two main aspect ratios used when filming a movie. These ratios are 1:85:1 and 2:35:1. The 1:85:1 ratio is the wider of the two and will fill the screen on a 16x9 set. The 2:35:1 will not completely fill the screen but will come much closer on a 16x9 TV than a 4:3 set. The DVD must also have an anamorphic transfer (or '16x9 enhanced') which formats the picture to correctly utilize the 16x9 screen size. If a DVD is not 16x9 enhanced (non-anamorphic), the 1:85:1 picture will have black bars and a 2:35:1 will have even larger bars and look stretched.

HI All using DVI:

I have connected my HTPC with Radeon 7500 DVI Out to my DVI In of a 60" GWII. I am using a DVI-I to DVI-I cable. (Should be the same as DVI-D, but some extra pins that aren't used in this case).

I have entered the numbers exactly as in the .PDF file (timing parameters etc) to get the x720p resolution out of my PC.

I have the picture up on Video7, but I notice that it is not absolutely "Solid" (??). I can see some ghosting for example behind the cursor, or on edges of windows. The ghost image always appears to the lower-right of the real image.

I adjusted image revision, and had NO effect at all on the picture. What seemed to help was cycling to "PRO" mode where I had turned off a bunch of sharpening etc, and ghosting was greatly reduced. In vivid mode I can see 3 ghosts. In Pro, I can still see a feint ghost image to the lower right.

I am also noticing a "Flickering" of the screen for solid, static colors (which I thought was odd in an LCD type display).

Note: From a distance I cannot notice the ghosting. Also, I cannot notice the flickering on "Moving Pictures". Only on static, single color type displays.


Is this normal to expect since the DVI gets a Digital->Analog->Digital conversion? Or, is there something I can do to improve it? Say, by adjusting more powerstrip timing, better video card, etc...

Thanks,
James

I have implemented UMR's mods with good results. I used the Avia DVD where appropriate, but in searching the other Avia tools, I realized that I have a bit of an overscan problem. I was wondering if I can tweak the overscan in the Service menu. I downloaded the PDF version of the manual, but the file appears to be damaged in some way. Can anyone comment on how to modify the over/under scan on the KF-60XBR800?

Incidentally, I am hoping this helps when playing DVDs. I have a progressive scan DVD player and a KF-60XBR800 with 16:9 capability. When I start a DVD, the picture is in normal mode. In magnifying the picture to fill the screen, I seem to lose a few centimeters on all sides (due to overscan I think) and I assume there is some loss of detail because the image is only digitally magnified, not optically magnified.

I may be wrong about this in 1 or more ways. Can anyone describe their user experience with a Progressive Scan DVD player? Have I done something wrong in setup, or is there a deficiency in my DVD player (Sony 715) Any help is appreciated.

JColosi,

The trick is the "MID1 COM" category in the service menu.

The settings you want to change for 16x9 are:

MHPH - Horizontal Position
DVPH - Vertical Position
MDHS - Horizontal Size
MDVS - Vertical Size

Tweak them until your overscan problem is fixed! (Note: A Little overscan is not necessarily a bad thing for moving video. I modify it only because it will cut off the start menu of my PC Desktop...)


OH, for the DVD:

I use a Panasonic progressive scan player. Assuming the DVD you are playing is "Anamorphic" the TV should default to FULL mode (16x9) (if you haven't told it otherwise in the user menu. The default is auto FULL). I never really Zoomed a DVD, but I Zoomed some letterbox TV and you do lose a little and get artifacts from the scaling (I bet there is not too much going on in the scaling algorithm to smooth artifacts...)

Of course the best thing is get Anamorphic movies, and watch it in "FULL" mode. Make sure your DVD player is set to "16x9" TV instead of "4x3" tv or you will be losing lots of resolution for anamorphic films as it will "Letterbox" your signal and throw away a lot of lines of data.

The trick is you should *NOT* be magnifying your anamorphic DVDs. You should display the full resolution (in general a 1.85:1 disc fills your screen). Only Magnify for material that is non-anamorphic "Letterbox" mode.

Also, make sure you are using a connection from your DVD player to TV that can pass the anamorphic signal. Preferably Component in. I Hear S-Video can do it also. Do not use composite as it is incapable.


James

Originally posted by jcolosi
...I downloaded the PDF version of the manual, but the file appears to be damaged in some way...

I just downloaded it without a problem. Try it again or upgrading Adobe Acrobat.

Yep,

The PDF still downloads fine for me as well. I am guessing it is just an older version of PDF viewer that is the problem...

Also, does anyone have any input on my DVI questions above?

Thanks,
James

Originally posted by wihardjw
...Also, does anyone have any input on my DVI questions above?
...

I would suggest you try removing all the enhancements with the tweaks if you have not already and try adjusting sharpness after that. I have found that there is a sweet spot with sharpness on my set.

Also, make sure you are using a connection from your DVD player to TV that can pass the anamorphic signal. Preferably Component in. I Hear S-Video can do it also. Do not use composite as it is incapable.
I believe my TV works on composite, S-Video and component.

New GWII review:

Home Theater Review 50" GWII (http://www.hometheatermag.com/printarchives.cgi?166)

I am surprised they were not able to do a better job with gray scale. My set was closer than theirs even without the CC20R.

Originally posted by umr
New GWII review:

Home Theater Review 50" GWII (http://www.hometheatermag.com/printarchives.cgi?166)

I am surprised they were not able to do a better job with gray scale. My set was closer than theirs even without the CC20R.

Very nice review. Thanks for sharing.

So umr,

Does the filter mod compensate for the "blue bump" they mention in the review? I know you said that it did help, but does it cure it completely?

Eagerly awaiting the instructions and your results. (read - eager to tear apart my set)


Ron

Originally posted by UUronl
So umr,

Does the filter mod compensate for the "blue bump" they mention in the review? I know you said that it did help, but does it cure it completely?
...

It did for my taste, but I have not made accurate color measurements to be able to quantify it. My set was closer than theirs though to start with. Mine measured 6389K without a filter at 20 IRE while they measured about 7600K at the same point.

Here is a link to info on the panel that might be in this TV.

LCX037BLT (http://www.sony.co.jp/~semicon/english/img/sony01/e6801372.pdf)

This is an interseting quote from the Home Theater Magazine review.

To get this level of brightness, you'd normally have to use a DLP RPTV, and they almost never have the splendid color that this Sony has.

Umr,

First off let me say Thank You for all the helpful information on the tweaks. I have seen good improvement by using them.

A couple of questions for you or anyone else that can help me.

1) 2170P-4 Gamm Settings. I noticed that for some of the dark video games that I play (Xbox - Component) I have to turn this up to 12-15. Makes the Dark Video games look a lot better.

Going by UMRs settings this one seems way off and I was wondering if I was doing something wrong. If I change Brightness/Picture its just washed out or too dark. I've implemented all except the Gray Scale tweaks.

2) Does anyone elses GWII make noise due to heat/cold? Every once in a while my GWII makes like a Cracking noise. I think it is just due to the set warming up or cooling down. The vendor that I bought it from said it was normal. I just wanted to see if anyone else was having the same problem.

Thanks

Benson98

The GAMM setting I am recommending results in a gamma of about 2.2. I have not measured what a GAMM of 12-15 is in terms of gamma. You have the right to use whatever gamma you like.

Setting picture and brightness correctly on this set is critical. I would suggest you use THX Optimizer to get this right.

Many people have observed the popping sound from heating and cooling of the set.

1152x864 GWII MID1 SIZING

UMR,

I have not been able to reduce vertical overscan using the GWII "Setup Menu" for virtual desktop resolutions such as 1152x864. Currently I must scroll vertically to see the entire screen. There is no horizontal overscan. When I try using the "Setup Menu" to reduce vertical overscan all I do is create a smaller scrollable vertical image. Is there a solution to this? Is it just a matter of disabling the virtual desktop feature and if so how is it disabled? I have no problem resizing 1280x720 to fit the screen.

Thanks UMR,

RAJH

GWII 60"
ATI 8500DV
CATALYST 3.2
WINDOWS XP

RAJH,

I have no experience with this personally because I have never tried to set a PC up on my set.

What you describe though sounds like what I have seen on my laptop. When I display a resolution on my laptop that is greater than my display supports Windows scrolls the display. It sounds like your PC thinks the GWII cannot display the vertical resolution you are requesting. I would guess you may need to override what the TV is telling the PC about its capabilities.

Thanks for the reply UMR.

I agree with your assessment but have yet to figure out how to override what the TV tells the PC. If I ever figure it out I'll post the solution.

UMR,

Thanks for the help. It turns out that I set the GAMM to 6 and adjusted the Brightness/Picture with THX and got pretty good results.

I was just worried that cranking up the GAMM from 0 to around 12 may do damaged having it set so high. So I adjusted it back down and readjusted the brightness/Picture for a compromise.


Thanks

-Benson98

UMR,

I got my games setup pretty good under the Standard setting. I changed Pro back to your recommendations for Dvds because of the better results.

Now here is where the problem starts. I went to calibrate my GWII & Denon 1600 (Component) and had to set the brightness way up. I was using THX (From Monsters Inc.) and Avia. If I use Video Essentials the Brightness Pattern it is fine and I keep the brightness down to around 24 Ticks.

Any idea on why the difference, Could I have accidently messed something up in the service menus. I referenced the service manual to compared all the settings and could not find any difference that would effect this.

If I use my Xbox DVD player THX, Avia and VE all work fine. I changed the Input for the Denon, changed Cables with no luck thinking I changed something specific to that input. I even tried the Xbox in the same input and it work.

Thanks

-Benson98

I don't have a GWII, but check the black level setting on the Denon. It sounds like it is set for 0IRE (sometimes referred to as enhanced black level) while the XBox is set for the standard NTSC level of 7.5IRE. There should be a setting on the Denon that you can change if necessary.

-Steve

Steve,

Thanks for the reply.

I already tried setting the Denon. There is a mode for Lighter / Darker. I was up really late last night messing with it so I can quite remember, but I believe if I turned it to one option the 2 Black bars would not even show. I then changed it to the other and that is when the Brightness was set really high.

The picture still looks good with setting it where I believe the brightness should be. I it just seems funny the I can not longer see the black bars on the test patterns from Avia and THX. Video Essential the pattern is fine.

Thanks

-Benson

umr,

Any news on that new filter?


Ron

Originally posted by UUronl
umr,

Any news on that new filter?


Ron

No word on when it will ship.

I have implemented UMR's tweak and the results thru DVI & Component are very good. The blue tinge associated with blacks are now gone. I have decided to cancel my IFS calibration session as the grey scale now seems to be as good as possible, as is the contrast.

The only small issue I have now is that reds have shifted a little bit toward orange. I have made a few tweaks to the initial UMR color decoder settings, using AVIA and this has helped but, not completely eliminated the problem. Blue, green and yellow are good. Just wondering if anyone has seen this and has any suggestions. I can definitely live with what I have but I would bet that reds could be improved while maintaining the current grey scale accuracy.

BB

Well I went back and according to the Avia disk I am dead on, and the same when I drop the panel to red only. My wife says the colors are perfect and I think she is right

BB

My 6"x6" filter is on the way!!!:D It should be here on Monday.

IM A LITTLE SLOW BUT I DO FOLLOW THE WISDOM SMARTS THAT UMRS FINE THOUGHTOUT AND UNDERPAID POSTS AND IT SOUNDS GOOD TO ME.WHAT UMR IS GOING TO TRY TO DO WITH THE FILTER MINE WILL IN TO ME IN ABOUT 10DAYS.THE CENTERSTAGE COMPANY WERE SUPOSE TO LET UMR TRYOUT A CS2 ON A GW2 THEY SHOULD BE PLACED IN A POSITION THAT MAKES CENTERSTAGE COME THRU ON WHAT THEY PROMISED MANY POSTS AGO ON THIS FORUM TO UMR SO WE ALL COULD BENFIT. EVERY ONE SHOULD POST TO CENTERSTAGE AND SAY WERE IS UMR TRYOUT SAMPLE. HE IS THE BEST GW11 PICTURE MAKER AND A FRIEND.

I have been watching this thread since late January when I almost purchased a 50" Panasonic plasma display. This thread caused me to first seek out a GW II so I could make my final decision. Needless to say I was blown away by the HD feed I saw at Circuit City. In early February I ordered a 50" GW II direct from Sony(Family Plan), cousin works for Sony. I took delivery on Tuesday and as expected the HD picture on D's HDNET was terrific right out of the box. Then I put on a regular SD channel and was horrified by how really bad it looked. Then I put in a DVD, (LOTR) and this was good, but not great. I finally got to UMR' s tweaks on Wednesday and wow what a difference. HDNET improved, SD was as good as my 35" Sony XBR and were I was most impressed was actually on DVD' s. I could not believe the detail I was missing prior to the tweaks. Can't wait to re-watch all my DVD's.

Thanks UMR for all your hard work.

Originally posted by evNOVA
.... SD was as good as my 35" Sony XBR and were I was most impressed was actually on DVD' s. I could not believe the detail I was missing prior to the tweaks. Can't wait to re-watch all my DVD's.

Thanks UMR for all your hard work.

::Sarcasm On::
You must be blind.;) Haven't you read all the anti-GWII posts on the CRT RPTV thread. This set is horrible.
::Sarcasm Off:

I'm glad you're happy. That along with learning from others is why I bothered to post. Unfortunately, I have not received much information in exchange.

evNova,

I would "highly" recommend a Panasonic XP30 or XP50 if you do not have something like it. My XP30 really adds quite a bit to DVD's.

I second the motion The Panny xp30 really works great. I had a Sony 755 which was to be a great machine really was terrible compared to the panny xp 30. The detail and color was out standing compared to the sony. Umr really know's his stuff. Every time I read his posts it cost me money. But its worth every dollar.

I currently have a Sony DVP-CX850D 200 disc changer and was actually looking at the threads about the panny players when I saw a thread about the new Bravo D1 dvd player with DVI

Originally posted by evNOVA
I currently have a Sony DVP-CX850D 200 disc changer and was actually looking at the threads about the panny players when I saw a thread about the new Bravo D1 dvd player with DVI

I would not use a DVI DVD player with this TV. Because:


You only have one DVI input
The TV converts the signal to analog as soon as it hits the first printed circuit board
I have not seen a quality difference of DVI over component on this set

After I saw how good my dvd player looked with your tweaks I decided to stay with my current player but now you re "tweak" my interest in the Panny units. How much better can they actually be?

Probably quite a bit compared to your Sony DVP-CX850D.

More info on my XP30 in this thread. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=1854037#post1854037)

Lately I have been experimenting with Cinemotion on and off. I currently prefer Cinemotion off since my only interlaced source is video. The video source appears to have a few less artifacts with Cinemotion off. This is not night and day, but I do think it is a slight improvement. This might not be a good idea if you are using an interlaced DVD player unless you are willing to switch it on and off.

I will soon get a gwII - 50" & hope to implement your tweaks, but I have 1 question. I was checking out the tv's in the store & they had a 42" panasonic plasma running monsters inc. dvd that covered the whole screen. It looked amazing - very nice picture.

Then they had an anamorphic dvd - with bars on top and bottom - running on the gwII - the gwII looked grainy. I am thinking it's the dvd format right. If monsters inc was running on the gwII - it wouldn't look grainy?

Is this right?

Also, which tweaks get rid of the graininess?

I will order the gwII ... I am curious which tweaks you did?

The important ones to me are:
2170P-4
GAMM & BLK

Which ones made a huge difference on SD & dvd?

Originally posted by abarsami
...If monsters inc was running on the gwII - it wouldn't look grainy?

Is this right?

Also, which tweaks get rid of the graininess?

I have never seen grain in an animated feature on my set. I don't believe any of them get rid of graininess. Most of the grain you see is in the source material. The goal of the tweaks is to present what is sent to the TV as accurately as possible. The tweaks will tend to send any grain in the source right through.

I would not implement the MID5 tweaks if you want to hide grain or any other fine details. You could also try increasing the filter coefficients on MID5 if you want to hide more fine details than the factory settings.

I did not do all the tweaks but I am at work and cannot tell you exactly which ones right now because I am at work. I will post them tonight.

Thanks for the link to the xp30 comparison. I am very interested in upgrading to one of these players.

All -

*Without* hesitation, I would HIGHLY recommend the Bravo D1 DVI DVD Player. I have a 60" Sony GWII.

My Samsung SIR-TS160 High Def DirecTV receiver used to be on the DVI input and is now on the Component input and I really cannot tell any difference.

The Bravo D1 on the DVI makes a *substantial* difference to my previous DVD player (a Philips DVD-R1000 DVD+RW Recorder) which was on the Component inputs. Putting an all digital upconverted (720p in my case) DVD stream into the GWII - even though it is converted to analog - makes an amazingly smooth, film-like image -- OUTSTANDING!!

If you look at the various Bravo D1 threads - even those that own the XP30 and other outstanding DVD players say that the Bravo D1 was substantially better.

Once inexpensive DVI switchers that support HDCP and have an IR remote are available, I will purchase one and switch the DirecTV receiver back to DVI - but honestly, I see no difference in HD quality having it on Component.

Read the Bravo D1 threads!!!!! You won't be sorry!

Aaron

aaron.s,

Please go buy Jim Taylor's "DVD Demystified" and post a picture of the Video Essentials resolution pattern (the last one in the advanced menu). I would like to see how much better the Bravo D1 is than an XP30.

I think we have hit the point of diminishing returns with the XP30 myself, but show me the test patterns and you can change my mind.

umr -

I will try to over the next couple of days.

But have you read all the various threads on the Bravo D1 in the DVD and >$5000 projector forum? They talk about the Avia resolution pattern and the fact the the Bravo D1 is able to display a higher resolution than several of the better non-dvi DVD players like the XP30.

I even believe someone has already posted pictures of the resolution pattern. Trust me though - with my eyes - and the more intense comparisons others have done - the Bravo D1 can only be matched by a Home Theater PC - and then several have said that the Bravo D1's picture was even slightly better.

For $199 how can you loose??

Aaron

I read the posts yesterday. Most of them are comparing apples and oranges. The example gif posted is with a display that is all digital and a DVD (Avia) that is digitally mastered. The DVD in the picture is also mapped "exactly" 1:1 for pixels. That is the best case for this deck. However, that is not what we have.

You're deck measures -8.26 dB @ 5.8 MHz (What Video). The XP30 has much better resolution than that because of the high sample frequency DAC's its frequency response is excellent out to the limit of a DVD.

I would guess some people are seeing improvements because of the DVI route others are seeing improvements because their original deck is not as good as the D1. I have seen no difference between DVI and component so far, but I will have a Video Essentials DVHS test tape soon. I should be able to quantify any difference with that.

I would also be interested in seeing photos of Jim's Test Images from DVD Demystified. He has some "very" challenging resolution patterns for the luma channel.

I would guess the D1 might be slightly better or worse PQ than an XP30 on this TV, but it sounds like the build quality is not as good. I personally would not change unless the difference in PQ is substantial.

This is the photo I want to see for the D1. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=1854063&fullpage=1)

I don't see how the D1 can be that much better than the XP30 because it is so very close to perfect.

Here is a series of photos that show how to install a color correction filter in your set. This is the best tweak I have found for improving the picture on this set. It must include adjusting the picture, brightness, gray scale and color decoder to be effective.

The first photo here shows how to remove the front side panels. Gently pull forward on the panels to remove. The connectors are four little pegs that snap into holes. There are also tabs on that slip inside the silver Sony cover plate. Be sure not to break the tabs or pegs.

THIS IS AT YOUR OWN RISK!!!!!

BE SURE TO UNPLUG YOUR SET BEFORE STARTING THIS AND AVOID GETTING ANY DIRT IN THE SET.

Here is a photo of what this does if you don't know. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2182181&fullpage=1)

Panel removed from left side....

Panel removed from right side...

Remove the Sony name plate panel by removing the screws shown in the photo. BE SURE YOU UNPLUGGED YOUR TV!!! The lower panel where you access the buttons must be open for this to come off.

Benson98,

I get that Cracking noise also, at first I was alarmed and prayed that it would not cause the panels to come out of alignment or cause any damage. I have since gotten used to it and it doesn't happen as often. I'm sure it is just the outer case shrinking/expanding according to the temp. Nothing to worry about. Hopefully it will stop making the noise alltogether someday when the unit is fully "broken-in"...

Remove the access panel underneath. I would carefully place the Sony panel to the side while this is being done. Note wires and printed circuit board are exposed at this point. Do not short anything out!!!! BE VERY CLEAN AND CAREFUL. UNPLUG THE TV!!!!

Lifting this panel off is tricky. It is in two pieces with the top piece under the bottom. The top cannot be removed first, but it must be loosened first before the base can be slipped out.

Everything off....

I wrapped the air intake next...

The 6"x6" CC20R filter.

I wore vinyl gloves to keep my skin oils from contaminating the filter.

keep 'em comin' umr... keep 'em comin' ;)


Ron

Next take the filter out of the package. Then remove the foil and cardboard covers. Do not remove the tissue paper. This will protect it while you get it into the set.

Curl it and slip the filter up the right side of the projector lens as shown in the photo.

Next slip the tissue off once it is above the lens and position it so it covers the entire lens. I don't have pictures of these things because they are difficult for me to see much less the camera. The filter ends up resting on a ledge in front of and behind the filter. It is pretty easy to see and feel, but impossible to photograph.

Next remove the plastic wrap and assemble in the reverse order. Replacing the cover plate is the most difficult part. You cannot put the bottom piece completely in place or the top part will not fit. You need to get the bottom piece close then put the top piece in its final position. After that carefully push the bottom place into its tabs.

Assembling the rest was no problem. REMEMBER THIS THING IS PLASTIC DO NOT OVER TIGHTEN. Plug it back in after it is all together and make sure the filter is covering the entire picture by using wide zoom.

Now you need to recalibrate Picture, Brightness, Color, Hue, gray scale and color decoder. I would use the GWII tweaks guide for the order.

Have fun with this!!!!:D

umr,

I'll admit I'm excited, but I have some reservations, mainly about heat. I found this on an Olympus site:

"Note that even though neutral density, color compensating, and other Wratten filters are protected by a lacquer overcoat, they are still susceptible to damage (particularly from scratches), and should be handled only at the edges or in the corners. An alternative is to protect gelatin filters by placing them into a simple metal frame, marketed by a number of manufacturers. Never expose gelatin filters to temperatures exceeding 50 degrees Celsius for extended periods. It is also important that these filters not be placed too close to the tungsten-halogen lamp of a microscope or other instrument to avoid heat damage."


50 degrees Celsius is just 122 degrees Farenheit. How long have you had yours in? Did it just go in right now? Also, these things deteriorate over time, the dyes mostly. This may be something we'll need replace repeatedly - I'm wondering how often it will need to be done.

Thanks for all your pioneering efforts nonetheless!



Ron

umr-

You've outdone yourself this time! It took me a while to get enough courage to go into the service menu and apply the original tweaks you've documented (but I'm REALLY glad I did). I'm way too chicken to apply the filter but I applaud your courage and efforts to document it for those among us with more cahoonas than me. Nice pictures BTW.

UUronl,

I have had a resin filter in my set for about a month. The gelatin was "just" put in. I agree heat is a BIG concern. I am guessing this filter will not be permanent. The temperature inside my light engine gets up to about 45 deg C (service menu item). The temperature above the filter seems very close to room temperature.

I would guess UV is going to be the bigger issue on filter life. Some of the folks on the projector forum are reporting fading on some gel filters with time.

You can always remove it if you don't like it.

bertschb,

It is a shame most people can't see one of these things all tweaked out. The picture on my set is really great.

Another benefit of this filter is that it seems to reduce reflections. My GWII did not have many reflections to start with, but they are pretty much non-existent with this filter.

Agreed(about removal). I didn't recall the exact temp of the lamp unit you had posted earlier - thanks for reposting. I guess if it never goes above 45 degrees we're okay? I'm just trying to avoid multiple installs and removals, and to a lesser degree multiple purchases.

What are the exact requirements for full coverage and what is the thickest filter that in your estimation would fit?


Thanks,

Ron

Originally posted by UUronl
Agreed(about removal). I didn't recall the exact temp of the lamp unit you had posted earlier - thanks for reposting. I guess if it never goes above 45 degrees we're okay? I'm just trying to avoid multiple installs and removals, and to a lesser degree multiple purchases.

What are the exact requirements for full coverage and what is the thickest filter that in your estimation would fit?


Thanks,

Ron

The filter in the picture (6"x6" Kodak gel) is the only one I know of that gives full coverage. I tried a 4"x4" Lee resin, but it was slightly too small. The thin size of this one is a BIG plus for installation. It was a breeze compared to lifting the screen off for the rigid resin filter.

Ooohhh. I see. So we need a flexible filter to do it the easy way. Ouch. Ok. So we're kinda stuck with gelatin then. I'm really interested in watching this over time - I hope you have great luck with it.

Thanks,

Ron

I doubt you will here much from me soon. I am pretty much done tweaking. I would be a little curious though if someone else tried the filter tweak.

I can't wait to try this tweak, umr. Nice job!

Do you have any before/after pics? I'm wondering how big the improvement is. Also, where did you purchase the filter?

thanks again for your help.

btw, anyone live in Seattle?

Bill

Here is photo of before and after. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2182181&fullpage=1)

I have not had a chance to access my TV in a dark room to get some better shots with the new filter, but the link above captures the effect. The link above is my TV with some reflections and the old filter. The new filter is just slightly better.

I ordered mine from Adorama, but it took 1 month to get.:(

Maybe someone else can find a better source.

Wow, the aftershot is amazing! The guy in the background just "disappears"!


;)


thanks. If I find a better source I'll let ya'all know.

I know aren't low black levels wonderful. I think the hat is the best example in the photo of what to expect.

My filter is on the way. I will break into the gw11 when my filter comes. I've been waiting 2 weeks so far. Your the best.

umr,

Just curious if you think the filter you have gives the best tradeoff between light loss and black levels. Or in other words, is it still bright enough or are you going to try an intermediate filter value?

Miro

Skellington,

I find this filter to be the best for my set. I already tried many others including a CC10R, CC20R, CC40R, CC10M, CC20M and CC40M.

umr - Thanks for all your hard work. I just had a 60" delivered last night. Is there a break in period before I perform the tweaks, or do you think I can give it a go tonight???

Originally posted by umr
I doubt you will here much from me soon. I am pretty much done tweaking. I would be a little curious though if someone else tried the filter tweak.

umr,

I didn't mean more tweaks - I'm just curious to hear how long the filter stays a) flat, b) intact, and c) dyed.

Hopefully it doesn't get warped/melted/faded. That's what I meant when I wished you luck.


Thanks,

Ron

Originally posted by mulesqb
umr - Thanks for all your hard work. I just had a 60" delivered last night. Is there a break in period before I perform the tweaks, or do you think I can give it a go tonight???

I would give it a go tonight. The break-in period if it applies is pretty subtle and should only significantly effect gray scale.

Originally posted by UUronl
umr,

I didn't mean more tweaks - I'm just curious to hear how long the filter stays a) flat, b) intact, and c) dyed.

Hopefully it doesn't get warped/melted/faded. That's what I meant when I wished you luck.


Thanks,

Ron

I would bet money it won't melt or warp, and I only bet on sure things. Fading is the only thing I am worried about. UV could ruin it over time. I hope it lasts quite a while, but I still have the resin filter as a backup.

Hi, sorry for going off subject. It's been a while since I visited, but I needed a break from this frustration. I'm looking for the official thread that might contain the answers to connecting the GWII to a PC. I checked all my old threads and they didn't have anything new.

Motjes2? By any chance did anyone ever figure out why the 9700 PRO works for some and not all? I still am stuck in 640x480 with DVI and the ATI 9700 Pro. Anything else and it's black screen time. Do I need to do UMR's tweaks to make it work perhaps? I have a dual link cable, could that be it? Has anyone figured this out, I sure haven't.

I know I should do UMR's tweaks too even if only for a better picture, I just can't find the intestinal fortitude.

Regards,

ASUS

ASUS,

You might want to try PM'ing someone in this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2144535&highlight=gwii+9700#post2144535) thread.

Hi all,

after applying a few basic UMR settings, I can see a shadow bar mostly visible on the right hand side of 4/3 SDTV images. Any clue on how to improve that ?

Erik.

I've been lurking here trying to figure out the whole DVI-ATI 9500-GWII 50" thing and I'd like to thank everyone here. I had success last night after some problems. Thanks so much!

In hopes of giving a little back to the community (and I didn't see these values in UMR's document) here are my MID1 COM values for correcting the overscan for 1280 X 720 for the KF-50XBR800.

MDHS - 224
MDVS - 124
DHPH - 151
DVPH - 39

I have slight un-correctable overscan on the right hand side. I'm not going to bother with it. My original values were the same as was listed in UMR's document.

For people who are on the fence about getting into the Service Menu, I would REALLY recommend reading UMR's document, especially the table that lists how to navigate through the Service Menu. I was estatic that I finally got my HTPC hooked up that I haven't done his other tweaks but I will shortly.

Thanks all and good luck!

Nils

Hi guys, I need a litttle help. I have a kf-50xbr800 and though it's a beautiful set, I have a shadow-like band about 3/4" wide running from side to side just above the center of the screen. It's been there from the the first day I turned it on. Sony has not been much help at all since I don't live within range of a home service center. The closest Sony repair provider picked my set up on Friday, and when I called today, they said that they didn't think that there was a problem with my tv. They saw the band but said it was normal. Could you check your sets for this problem? It is very easy to see in scene 27 of LOTR, where it opens with a bright screen. They changed the projector unit, but that didn't fix it. I pulled the bulb and shined a very bright flash light into the socket. That was enough to make the screen glow and I could easily see the band on the screen. Thanks.

Could you post a photo of what you are seeing?

Does the red text used for warnings on this forum appear blurry to anyone else on their GWII? Text in all other colors looks sharp but for some reason red text is blurry and unfocused on my set. I've tried different graphic cards and different computers but the problem remains.

UMR - I only wish I could. The service people took my set to their shop, saying they would need to troubleshoot it there. To me, once I saw the band or streak with the set turned off and a flashlight shining into the optical block, that implied a physical rather than an electronic problem. As far as appearance - you've seen a crt with a logo or image burned in, so that on a moderate to bright screen you see what looks like a shadow? That's what it looks like, about 3/4 " wide, slightly above center, from side to side. It seems like it may be slightly darker on the right side, but I'm not sure. About 5 " above that there is another streak, not as obvious, maybe 1/4 " or less. Sometimes against a dark background it seems like there is another 3/4 " streak immediately below the dark one, only this one is a shade or two lighter instead of darker, almost like a diffraction or interference pattern.

Hi,

I applied UMR's tweak settings...and now...no matter what mode I am in (standard, mild, pro, etc...) I can't properly adjust black level.

Whenever I display a black level test pattern (I tried avia and THX), I can't differentiate between the blacks...no matter how I set the brightness, the white get's whiter and the blacks lighten up but on the avia disk I can't see the two black bars on the left and on the THX optimode pattern, I can't see the THX logo or the drop shadow no matter how I adjust the brightness...it's as if when the blacks drop below a certain level, they all look the same, no matter what the brightness is set to. Anyone know what is going on or how I can fix it?

Thanks!
Santos

I'm not sure if anyone has tried this yet but I have found a way to display standard PC resolutions (640x480, 800x600, 1024x768, 1280x960, and 1280x1024) full screen with no overscan and no virtual desktop on my GWII. Powerstrip is not required. But the solution I used is not cheap.

I purchased a Kramer VP-723DS scaler from Protech. I feed the PC video into the scaler via a VGA cable, select the desired PC resolution and the scaler converts it to 720P. The scaler has many scaled outputs to choose from but the only ones I have managed to get working are 480P, 720P and 1080i. I have tried feeding the scaler via VGA, DVI and component. Component looks a little washed out. DVI looks great but I can't get past the 1024x768 resolution barrier. VGA also looks good and lets me select all sorts of resolutions. I had to tweak the vertical and horizontal screen size from the GWII service menu to eliminate overscan.

This method should work with just about any graphic card/PC combination. I have tried it with an old P3 500mhz and a newer Athlon 2200+ with both a Nvidia 4600 and ATI 9700 Pro. Both systems are running Windows XP.

Has anyone else tried this method? Has anyone found a different solution?

"Not cheap" is relative. What does the Kramer VP-723DS actually cost ? Thanks.

jgvp,

I paid $1248 including shipping but they have since increased their price. Check around for the latest price.

I've been noticing that vertical motion on my GWII appears "jittery". This is especially noticeable on the end credits of a film scrolling to the top of the screen. The text appears to jitter up and down as it scrolls upwards. I've also noticed this effect during panoramic scenes such as the one in Gladiator where there is an aerial panning shot of the Colosseum.

Has anyone noticed this before?

Horizontally scanned text does not appear to have this problem (judging from dvd animated menus that have text scrolling horizontally across the screen). I'm certain this IS NOT a GWII blurring related issue. Is there something that can be done with vertical filtering or refresh rates that may fix this?

Thanks in advance for your help.

I realized I didn't list my dvd equipment.

I'm using the component output on a Marantz DV4300 progressive scan player.

UMR:

I have successfully implemented your tweaks and several weeks ago ordered my red filter. I am curious about grey scale settings after installation of the filter. Color, brightness,ect.. won't be a problem but without any equipment to measure color temp. I am unclear what procedure to follow. It appears that you initial grey scale settings were based on measurement. Have you made any further measurements with the red filter installed? Thanx

Originally posted by bberns22
UMR:

I have successfully implemented your tweaks and several weeks ago ordered my red filter. I am curious about grey scale settings after installation of the filter. Color, brightness,ect.. won't be a problem but without any equipment to measure color temp. I am unclear what procedure to follow. It appears that you initial grey scale settings were based on measurement. Have you made any further measurements with the red filter installed? Thanx

You need to recalibrate the gray scale using one of the methods in the tweaks thread. I have not been able to measure the set with my new filter, buy I would guess it is MUCH closer at 0% than previously. Maybe +- 2000K from D65 at that level and +-500K at 10 IRE.

This week I was calibrating my mother in-laws 55" Mits RPTV and her 27" Sony. Here are my observations and some measurements for those who are interested. I performed a gray scale, level, color decoder, focus and convergence calibration.

Measured contrast ratio:

Mits 1500:1, GWII 400:1 in a dark room.

Mits 70:1, GWII 150:1 in a moderately bright room. Maybe a brighter screen is a plus.

Resolution:

Mits in 4:3 mode was limited to about 1/2 the resolution of the GWII on chroma and about 2/3 the resolution on luma. I did not have a good 16:9 pattern to actually measure the resolution on the Mits, but it was softer than the GWII. The Mits did a nice job hiding lower quality signals because of its resolution limitations and it tended to filter things nicely.

Screen brightness:

The one year old Mits was about 1/2 as bright as my GWII. This is on a set that is not used very frequently and had the contrast adjusted slightly higher than Avia would recommend.

Black level:

The level of black on the Mits was about 8 times lower than my GWII. Note it did not go totally black.

Color decoder:

I could not adjust the color decoder on the Mits to be close to the GWII level of accuracy. The Mits had a BAD red push that I believe can be corrected over the I2C bus, but she would never let me do that.

Gray Scale:

The Mits gray scale looked excellent once I was done. The GWII is nice, but the Mits is much better here.

Geometry/Convergence/Chromatic Aberration:

I was able to get the Mits very close to the level of accuracy I see on my GWII. There was still some unevenness that could probably have been corrected, but I was tired of messing with it. The convergence had drifted quite a bit since last year when I adjusted it last. The color fringing (chromatic aberration) people have reported seeing on the GWII looked to be the same on the Mits. The geometry on the Mits was slightly better, but only because I spent hours fixing it. The GWII was much closer on geometry out of the box.

Overscan:

The Mits and GWII were the same on 16:9 material, but the Mits was not adjustable for 4:3.

General comments:

I watched many movies and quite a bit of cable on the Mits after calibration and I liked the set. The blacks and gray scale accuracy on this set made watching B&W movies a real treat. Cable on the Mits was better than Dish on my GWII. I would guess most of this is source related, but I can't do a direct comparison to know for sure.

I found the color accuracy of the Mits to be its biggest flaw. The strong red push was pretty ugly that made most color sources hard to watch. I also felt like the Mits was significantly softer than my GWII on excellent quality sources like ATOC. You were always just on the verge of seeing what DVD is capable of delivering. The adjust-ability of the Mits was also lacking compared to the GWII except in the area of convergence which the GWII does not need any.

There are still some problems with how windows handles this, but if you want to play Sim City 4 on your 60" screen here's what's up:

This was done using Sapphire Radeon 9000 w/ DVI, a Belkin Dual Link Cable, and the 60" GWII.

The TV and the video card seem to communicate with each other over the DVI. When an improper 37.5khz 60hz 800x600 signal is sent over the DVI, the videocard along with powerstrip are sent into 90+khz. An attached monitor continues to function, but the system becomes unstable (occasional mouse & kb freeze) and any attempt to leave this mode crashes the display and then reboots the system shortly after. (it might possibly help to exit powerstrip before changing modes if you end up here).

The good news is, 800x600 @ 56hz does not create this instability. It doesn't show on the TV, but once in this mode it is possible to continue to the 800x600 custom timings which I'll describe next. I do not yet know how to make 56hz the windows default for 800x600 mode, so I switch manually into this mode using the ATI tray icon. Otherwise, a switch to 800x600 starts at 60hz and messes up the video card DVI before powerstrip can switch it to a custom. If anybody knows how to remove a resolution from windows please post. I tried a custom driver with max 59hz but that did not stop the 60hz lockup.

As for the timings, they turned out to be quite tricky because it is not possible to place 800x600 in the 720p timings. 808x600 works just peachy when placed within the standard 720p, as do 800x598 and 800x602. But for some reason this TV expects 800x600 (and 792 by 600) to be widescreen yet using the 720p timings. The standard 720p image starts off past the right of the screen and it must be brought left by reducing horizontal pixels as scan rates are locked. But as it shifts left, it also expands to widescreen. Also, the TV was picky--even timings which seemed stable after fiddling were rejected by the TV during a mode switch.

Here are my settings. I recommend pasting in the powerstrip timing parameters as even small deviations blinked occasionally or did not take as a mode switch.

PowerStrip timing parameters:
800x600=800,96,48,168,600,47,6,97,49500,3094

Generic timing details for 800x600:
HFP=96 HSW=48 HBP=168 kHz=45 VFP=47 VSW=6 VBP=97 Hz=59

Linux modeline parameters:
"800x600" 49.500 800 896 944 1112 600 647 653 750 -hsync -vsync

--as I have it now, any program which switches into 800x600 is not going to work. To play Sim City 4 for instance, I start at 1184x666 and switch into 800x600@56 using the ATI tray icon installed by the supplemental ATI software. If powerstrip is running it will set the custom resolution right after your manual switch occurs. Powerstrip may also be started at this time and then use it to switch to 800x600 custom. Once Sim City 4 starts in 800x600, it does not change modes again so there is no problem. If it were to switch to 640x480 and then back to 800x600 it would probably crash. So this is not completely working unless someone knows how to remove 800x600@60 from windows.

Also, it is important not to shut down the machine in 800x600 mode. You probably need an attached monitor to recover from that. Starting up in VGA mode does not work because the ATI driver is not started. I always switch back to 1184x666 which does not even need powerstrip loaded to work. Also, I find it is ok to hibernate while using 800x600 custom timings.

I remember on win95/98 it was possible to set a default refresh rate for each resolution within windows. I can't figure out how to do this in XP. It always wants to do 60, not 56 and the DVI crashes followed by the system.

Also remember to do the manual switch before entering these timings into powerstrip. Attach a monitor to the VGA port to help during this, and hopefully keep a spare one attached in case something goes wrong and the machine tries to start up in 800x600.

Also I have an alternative 1184x666. On my setup, the one from the tweak pdf has very slight overscan on the left and an occasional slight flicker on the upper right. The one I give here has slightly more underscan on the right however.

PowerStrip timing parameters:
1184x666=1184,152,88,256,666,33,5,46,75625,3094

Generic timing details for 1184x666:
HFP=152 HSW=88 HBP=256 kHz=45 VFP=33 VSW=5 VBP=46 Hz=60

Linux modeline parameters:
"1184x666" 75.625 1184 1336 1424 1680 666 699 704 750 -hsync -vsync

The key to tweaking this for yourself is that the horizontal timings are pretty much ignored. The DVI or TV only is interested in the total horizontal pixels, which as you change it adjusts the horizontal width. It is possible to fit more active pixels (I tried 1200), but this increases the underscan on the right. To remove the current underscan probably one can try fewer active pixels and adjust the horizonal width using total pixels. Maybe the text will be clearer this way. I keep the scan rates locked at about 60hz.

Hrmmm - B&H has a 2 filter minimum order for the 150mm Kodak CC20R UMR is using. Anyone in the DC area want to go in for one if I order a pair? PM me. Their price seems good at ~$43. Adorama has them for $49, but instead of saying "special order" they say they're out of stock. Sounds less promising. Can anyone recommend a source?


Thanks,


Ron

At long last, I have put together an Excel spreadsheet describing Service Menu values for the KF-60XBR800.

* UPDATE *
I posted an update to my spreadsheet on July 9th, 2003 at 9:27 GMT. Please download the latest version of the spreadsheet attached to that post. (Post #975, Page 49)

thanks,
-- John

This isn't completely germaine to this thread, but thought I'd post where other owners of my new TV would see. I recently purchased the KF-50XBR800 with a stand (not the Sony one, but one made particularly for this TV). When I place a center speaker in the stand directly under the TV (the only logical spot for it) there is a faint, but very noticeable humm/buzz. It is there only when the TV is on (and not just when the fan is on - it goes away during cool down), or if I move the speaker to just in front of the TV. I have tested it with different speakers, and they all produce the buzz. I have unplugged all my other home theater components, and plugged the TV into a Monster Powerbar 1100, but it persists. Has anyone else encountered this? Any ideas on how to make it go away?

I've noticed the same thing (60XBR800 in my case). It is only caused by the TV being on. Doesn't matter whether the receiver is on or if speaker is receiving signal. Contemplating moving speaker to above TV but it is a hassle so I haven't tried yet. My guess is is EMF associated with the lamp.

Thom

I have no problems with Yamaha driving centre speaker under GWII. But there is one shelf containing a 7 inch high tape recorder between the GWII and the center speaker. Perhaps an EMI filter of some sort at the audio amplifier's power plug or power bar may help ? I'm using a power bar with built in surge/lightning protection - perhaps it has emi supression as well. I have 3 power bars total.

I have a Definitive Technology center speaker directly below my GWII 60" and I don't get any feedback/buzzing/noise of any kind.

Hey guys,

I've always found the elusive answers in this particular thread.. After searching for two days, i'm ready to give up on this.. Here goes..

I'm looking for the discreet remote codes to the 4 picture modes on the GW II (Vivid/Pro etc.) I want to via a macro be able to switch between HDTV and Standard Def on my One For All remote . I like to also change PIC modes b/c HDTV/DVD looks great on Vivid while I use "UMR Tweaked" Pro on SD. Getting really confusing for the wife. I have everything else except for the PIC mode working.

Hoping to do this without a JP1 b/c that would mean buying a newer OFA remote.

Ok....here goes!

I purchased the tv roughly a month ago. I became immediately active in tweaking settings in an effort to learn more about the tv but more importantly improve on what I see as sub-par performance. I had access to the service manual and was able to change some settings (I wrote down factory settings 1st) and accomplish a "better" picture. Then I found your guide. I did keep my settings under the "standard" settings and did yours, as directed, under PRO.

Now here is my situation. I have absolutely terrible image quality while the camera is moving and on vertically moving text (ie. Credits). When the cam pans around there are jaggies all over. An good example would be "The Road to Perdition." There is a scene where the camera zooms out to reveal a very large field of crops and you can just make out a green blur with jaggies all over. Also in the scenes in the city where the camera is also zoomed out the cars exhibit the same characteristics. Hopefully you or someone will understand what I am saying.

I guess my question is, are all of you seeing the same thing and living with it. This tv is quite expensive and I am starting to think I should've just gotten the plasma for the extra bucks. Pls some feed back and suggestions. I followed your guide all the way through. ThnX

FWIW-
I bought my 60" GWII a few months ago and applied most of UMR's tweaks and I'm still blown away on a weekly basis with the picture quality. The quality of the OTA HD feeds in my area varies quite a bit from week to week but when I'm getting a good signal the picture is stunning. DVD's are very nice but don't hold a candle to a GOOD HD feed. Overall I'm very happy with this set. I haven't seen anything better.

EKoh,

I am sorry to hear that. What DVD player are you using and what is your connection type? I have only done a couple tweaks to my set, although I thought DVD looked fantastic with some slight user menu (not service menu) tweaking using Video Essentials. What I was less impressed with was the artifacts on broadcasts from DirecTV. I made changes suggested by UMR to Video 1 (PICT BOOST2 and 3 I believe as well as the DRC changes) to remove edge enchantment and wow, what a difference. The DTV picture is softer now, but I don't see all those artifacts anymore. I have not seen, nor do I own the movie you mentioned, so I can't compare.



:)John, Thanks for that spreadsheet!!! :)

I guess my question is, are all of you seeing the same thing and living with it

I just watched "Road to Perdition" on Sunday night and I did not notice any of the artifacts that you describe. In fact, I have purposely been trying to see flaws in moving images that have been described here. The “worst” I could observe is a slight lack of sharpness or detail, but certainly nothing close to “jaggies”.

I have only adjusted the user menu settings “manually”, ie without Avia or Video Essentials. I have a 60" GW II.

I thought the problem might be with your DVD player as well. Do you see the same behavior with HD signals?

I posted a similar finding back in 12/02 when my Klipsch center buzzed under my GWII. Took the center black to UE for an exchange. My salesman walked it over to their floor model, and reproduced the buzz. He got more buzzing in bringing over two other Klipsch centers from his speaker section. A Boston Audio didn't react, but I'm very partial to my Klipschs! Took it back, and its been buzzing ever since. At least it isn't volume-sensistive.

Well, fellow "GWII" owners...I am once again a very happy 50XBR800 owner, after solving the red shadow-on-the-left-side of figures only, with light background. It was in fact solved, very simply by the "image revision" option, readily accessed in the basic format of "setup." I just had to go from "auto" to "2."
Thanks for the advice UMR and others.;)

Hi all,

Sorry for the follow-up post. I'm still looking for meanings on several of the service menu items. Specifically, the following Category:Item pairs are giving me a bit of trouble.

2103-1: YLEV 2170P-3: MIDE 2170D-3: LBLK MID1: DYSD
2103-1: CLEV 2170P-3: VM 2170D-3: BBLK MID1: MDHS
2103-1: BPFO 2170P-3: VMH 2170D-3: AFCM MID1: MDVS
2103-1: CBO1 2170P-3: VMM 2170D-3: VDJP MID3: VDHP
2103-1: CRO1 2170P-3: VML 2170D-3: VDST MID3: VDHS
PIC-BST1: BSET 2170P-4: PIC 2170D-5: HFRQ MID3: VDVE
PIC-BST2: CRNG 2170P-4: GAMR 2170D-5: HFRX MID3: VDVS
PIC-BST2: NLMP 2170P-4: GAMG 2170D-5: INTR MID3: VCPO
PIC-BST3: DGR 2170P-4: GAMB 2170D-5: VLNL MID3: VCWD
2170P-1: CBOF 2170P-4: DCTR 2170D-5: VLNH MID3: VSTP
2170P-1: CROF 2170P-4: APED CXA2151: MTRX MID6: MWHS
2170P-3: SYSM 2170P-4: RROF MID1: DHPH MID6: MWVS
2170P-3: PROV 2170P-4: RBOF MID1: DVPH MID6: MRHS
2170P-3: LTLV 2170D-1: VSZO MID1: DHAR CCD: ID1M
2170P-3: LTMD 2170D-1: APSW MID1: DVAR 3DNR: YCR
2170P-3: CTLV 2170D-2: HPOS MID1: DHPW 3DNR: CCR


If anyone knows where I can find a reliable description of these items, I'd appreciate it.

Please see the attachment I posted on "06-27-03 07:37 PM" for a complete list of all Service Menu items and values.

thanks again,
-- John

I have the Kf-50xbr800 w/ and xbox w/ hd pack and Monster Video 3 component cables. Also a Sony SLV-D500P VCR/DVD combo aslo using the Monster 3 components. My computer is hooked up using the Monster DVI-400 and I used powerstrip to make the custom resolution, which I admit is very cool. I don't have HD yet because I need to buy another box.

This is the tv I am using in my bedroom so I don't have my surround sound hooked up and the dvd player, though progressive scan, might not be the greatest. I know there is a saying that "the system is only as good as it's weakest component." I work for Sony and got the player hoping it would provide a desirable picture and it was an unbeatable price, do you think upgrading to a better dvd player would take care of the issue??? When the camera is still the image quality is good and maybe even excellent, but as soon as it starts to pan or zoom the "jaggies" around the edges of objects and blurry faces in the background almost makes me cringe when I think about the price of the tv and the fact that my tv in the living room looks flawless in comparison @ 1/2 the price. Any suggestions for a great dvd player @ a competitive price ($300-400)??

Originally posted by TommyTT
Hey guys,

I've always found the elusive answers in this particular thread.. After searching for two days, i'm ready to give up on this.. Here goes..

I'm looking for the discreet remote codes to the 4 picture modes on the GW II (Vivid/Pro etc.) I want to via a macro be able to switch between HDTV and Standard Def on my One For All remote . I like to also change PIC modes b/c HDTV/DVD looks great on Vivid while I use "UMR Tweaked" Pro on SD. Getting really confusing for the wife. I have everything else except for the PIC mode working.

Hoping to do this without a JP1 b/c that would mean buying a newer OFA remote.

I have looked all over for the picture mode codes with no luck. I do not believe they exist. I hope someone can prove me wrong on this though.

Originally posted by EKohlbrenner
...When the camera is still the image quality is good and maybe even excellent, but as soon as it starts to pan or zoom the "jaggies" around the edges of objects and blurry faces in the background almost makes me cringe when I think about the price of the tv and the fact that my tv in the living room looks flawless in comparison @ 1/2 the price. Any suggestions for a great dvd player @ a competitive price ($300-400)??

I use a Panasonic DVD-XP30 with excellent results.

Originally posted by jcolosi
...
If anyone knows where I can find a reliable description of these items, I'd appreciate it.

Please see the attachment I posted on "06-27-03 07:37 PM" for a complete list of all Service Menu items and values.

thanks again,
-- John

You might try the GWI manual. I don't have it available at the moment, but I believe it has descriptions for many of those items.

UMR
What would you say the best HD receiver is? I have a Sony SAT-HD200 for my living room tv and it works well. Just wonder if you have come across a better deal?!? Also, where can I get more info about the filter that you installed?? Was that mainly to improve black levels or the entire color decoder. I am interested in anything to get my moneys worth out of the set!!!

Originally posted by EKohlbrenner
UMR
What would you say the best HD receiver is? I have a Sony SAT-HD200 for my living room tv and it works well. Just wonder if you have come across a better deal?!? Also, where can I get more info about the filter that you installed?? Was that mainly to improve black levels or the entire color decoder. I am interested in anything to get my moneys worth out of the set!!!

I have no opinion on which is the best HD receiver.

The info I posted in this thread has most of the info I have found on using color correction filters with LCD projectors. The filter improves black level and gray scale accuracy at low light levels. I don't believe the accuracy of the color decoder is improved except at low light levels because of the strong blue shift.

I'm thinking pretty seriously about the GWII. Something I don’t understand: If the native resolution of LCDs in the XBR800 is 1366 x 768 and standard HDTV is 1280x720 how does the Sony “scale” this. Does it simply adjust the optics so that 720p takes up the whole screen (give or take some overscan) or does it logically scale the image using it’s electonic scaler (as it would for 480p and 1080i I assume).? I would think the former would give a much better picture.

PDeMaio
There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.

Originally posted by Santos
Hi,

I applied UMR's tweak settings...and now...no matter what mode I am in (standard, mild, pro, etc...) I can't properly adjust black level.

Whenever I display a black level test pattern (I tried avia and THX), I can't differentiate between the blacks...no matter how I set the brightness, the white get's whiter and the blacks lighten up but on the avia disk I can't see the two black bars on the left and on the THX optimode pattern, I can't see the THX logo or the drop shadow no matter how I adjust the brightness...it's as if when the blacks drop below a certain level, they all look the same, no matter what the brightness is set to. Anyone know what is going on or how I can fix it?

Thanks!
Santos

Strange, I have the exact same problem with my Technics A-10. I had purchased a Sony preogressive scan player, but didn't like the color as much as my A-10. I know I did see the "blacker than black" bar at some point on my 50XBR800, but now I can't. I am going to play with this a bit today. I know this DVD player outputs blacker than black on my old 36" direct-view set... Santos, did you ever get this figured out?

Originally posted by Nullman
Strange, I have the exact same problem with my Technics A-10. I had purchased a Sony preogressive scan player, but didn't like the color as much as my A-10. I know I did see the "blacker than black" bar at some point on my 50XBR800, but now I can't. I am going to play with this a bit today. I know this DVD player outputs blacker than black on my old 36" direct-view set... Santos, did you ever get this figured out?

It sounds like you may be using my settings blindly. Adjusting service menu settings for brightness, picture and gray scale could cause this. You need to use test images from something like AVIA to avoid setting the service menu brightness too high.

Originally posted by umr
It sounds like you may be using my settings blindly. Adjusting service menu settings for brightness, picture and gray scale could cause this. You need to use test images from something like AVIA to avoid setting the service menu brightness too high.

I didn't due any SM tweaks other than a slight change to gamma that would effect the black level. I decided to hook the Sony player back up and saw the blacker than black. I guess it is just my Technics DVD player. Maybe it has something to do with outputting in 16:9 vs 4:3 like on my old set, who knows. I've ordered a Bravo D1, which I hope to have next week.

Kind of unrelated, but I dropped by Tweeter yesterday to kill some time. They have a Sencor feeding the HDTV signal to the floor. There was a 50" Sammy and a 50" GWII side by side with the same signal. A salesperson was showing a group of people the two sets. The GWII looked dramatically better than the Sammy, and the sales rep was telling the people that he thought the GWII was the best looking set they had on the floor. The Sammy actually looked a little washed out and green - which I know they're known for. The GWII even looked like it had better black levels the way it was calibrated. This was the first time that they had the same feed on both sets, usually they had HD on the Sammy and a DVD on the GWII. I can only imagine if they applied the UMR tweaks to the set! I was also at Best Buy the other day - I was seeing rainbows all over the place - they had about 6 of the Samsungs peppered around the store. Boy am I ever glad I picked the Sony.


Ron

Originally posted by jcolosi
Hi all,

Sorry for the follow-up post. I'm still looking for meanings on several of the service menu items. Specifically, the following Category:Item pairs are giving me a bit of trouble.

2103-1: YLEV 2170P-3: MIDE 2170D-3: LBLK MID1: DYSD
2103-1: CLEV 2170P-3: VM 2170D-3: BBLK MID1: MDHS
2103-1: BPFO 2170P-3: VMH 2170D-3: AFCM MID1: MDVS
2103-1: CBO1 2170P-3: VMM 2170D-3: VDJP MID3: VDHP
2103-1: CRO1 2170P-3: VML 2170D-3: VDST MID3: VDHS
PIC-BST1: BSET 2170P-4: PIC 2170D-5: HFRQ MID3: VDVE
PIC-BST2: CRNG 2170P-4: GAMR 2170D-5: HFRX MID3: VDVS
PIC-BST2: NLMP 2170P-4: GAMG 2170D-5: INTR MID3: VCPO
PIC-BST3: DGR 2170P-4: GAMB 2170D-5: VLNL MID3: VCWD
2170P-1: CBOF 2170P-4: DCTR 2170D-5: VLNH MID3: VSTP
2170P-1: CROF 2170P-4: APED CXA2151: MTRX MID6: MWHS
2170P-3: SYSM 2170P-4: RROF MID1: DHPH MID6: MWVS
2170P-3: PROV 2170P-4: RBOF MID1: DVPH MID6: MRHS
2170P-3: LTLV 2170D-1: VSZO MID1: DHAR CCD: ID1M
2170P-3: LTMD 2170D-1: APSW MID1: DVAR 3DNR: YCR
2170P-3: CTLV 2170D-2: HPOS MID1: DHPW 3DNR: CCR


If anyone knows where I can find a reliable description of these items, I'd appreciate it.

Please see the attachment I posted on "06-27-03 07:37 PM" for a complete list of all Service Menu items and values.

thanks again,
-- John


Here are examples of what you can find in the GWI service manual.

2103-1: YLEV Y out Gain
2103-1: CLEV Cb & Cr out gain
2103-1: BPF0 Chroma band filter f(0) setting
2103-1: CBO1 Cb/EXT Cb offset (maybe)
2103-1: CRO1 Cr/EXT Cr offset (maybe)
PIC-BST1: BSET Data table selection
PIC-BST2: CRNG Coring level
PIC-BST2: NLMP Non-linearity amplifier
PIC-BST3: DGR Green enhancement on/off
2170P-1: CBOF Cb/Ext Cb offset
2170P-1: CROF Cr/EXT Cr offset
2170P-3: SYSM Sets signal bandwidth
2170P-3: PROV Sets the preshoot to overshoot ratio (maybe)
2170P-3: LTLV ?
2170P-3: LTMD ?
2170P-3: CTLV ?

I'm having the same issues as Nullman and Santos... I've tried using both a Sony DVP-S7000 and the Panasonic XP50 DVD player with the AVIA disc and I cannot see the two black bars on the black level tests no matter what adjustments I make. Any other thoughts? Can others out there verify that they can actually see the bars at some point so I have some more motivation to keep trying? =) Thanks!

Masteropp,

I can tell you that I did see the black bars with the Sony unit I am about to return. (I'll take down the model number tonight and post it here.) I made no changes to the TV, just plugged it in and increased the brightness and there it was, the blacker than black bar. I went back to the Technics and no matter how bright I turned up the TV I couldn't see it. I even went in and "undid" all the SM tweaks I had done. (I had them all written down.) I still couldn't get the BtB bar to appear using the Technics DVD player. I know the BtB bar showed up on my old 36" Direc-view Wega with the same player. I don't get what's going on really, but using the THX Optimizer you can still adjust the black level properly without seeing the BtB levels. I believe there is even a blur that says "some DVD players don't output blacker than black, so turn up your brightness until you can just see the 7th square", or something like that.

Originally posted by masteropp
I'm having the same issues as Nullman and Santos... I've tried using both a Sony DVP-S7000 and the Panasonic XP50 DVD player with the AVIA disc and I cannot see the two black bars on the black level tests no matter what adjustments I make. Any other thoughts? Can others out there verify that they can actually see the bars at some point so I have some more motivation to keep trying? =) Thanks!

I have seen the bars with an S7000 and an XP30. What have you tried specifically?

FWIW, the Sony NS725P will display BtB bar in interlace mode, but will not in progressive scan on my TV. My Technics A10 (interlace only) will display the black bar if I set the black level to light, but not dark in it's internal menu.

Be especially concerned if you don't see the "black bars" in AVIA. They are actually very slightly ABOVE true black and should be visible even on player which don't pass blacker than black. If raising the display's brightness control never allows you to see the AVIA black bars, then the system is cutting off all shadow details which are nearly black.

This problem is most common caused by a digital processor in the chain (often internal on a HD ready set) which is expecting to see black at a higher voltage than the source device is supplying black. You'll see this frequently if you set a DVD player to output "enhanced black," "darker black," or Setup = 0 IRE. That puts black in the video signal at a lower voltage.

Playing in the service menu of a set could also alter the voltage threshold which the display interprets as black to be too high. Everything below that incorrectly high threshold then becomes indistinguishable from black. That means shadow details will be lost.

I am working out of town this week, so I can't check and adjust my settings until Friday. I am glad to hear that I should be able to see the bars, so I will continue to try. I have been disappointed w/ shadow detail, so this is good to hear that I should be able to improve that by getting my settings adjusted properly... Thanks for the responses.

Hi guys,

I got a problem with ghost on my GWII and I can't seem to able to correct it event with V POS D tweak and I still. I have attached a photo of the what I see on the screen. If you see where the character hair then you will notice a white high light. This ghost like high light is driving me nut! Anyone have an Idea what cause it and how to correct it? I am playing the move with my RP82 BTW.

Thanks,

Eddie.

attached picture (http://www3.sympatico.ca/ektmon/gwii/DSCN0564.JPG)

Originally posted by Eddie M
Hi guys,

I got a problem with ghost on my GWII and I can't seem to able to correct it event with V POS D tweak and I still. I have attached a photo of the what I see on the screen. If you see where the character hair then you will notice a white high light. This ghost like high light is driving me nut! Anyone have an Idea what cause it and how to correct it? I am playing the move with my RP82 BTW.

Thanks,

Eddie.

attached picture (http://www3.sympatico.ca/ektmon/gwii/DSCN0564.JPG)

I would check out the following possibilities:

- Your Sharpness is not set correctly
- You have not done the enhancement reduction tweaks
- The movie you are looking at has edge enhancement (no fix)
- You have some kind of enhancement function enabled on your DVD player

Originally posted by Guy Kuo
Be especially concerned if you don't see the "black bars" in AVIA. They are actually very slightly ABOVE true black and should be visible even on player which don't pass blacker than black. If raising the display's brightness control never allows you to see the AVIA black bars, then the system is cutting off all shadow details which are nearly black.

This problem is most common caused by a digital processor in the chain (often internal on a HD ready set) which is expecting to see black at a higher voltage than the source device is supplying black. You'll see this frequently if you set a DVD player to output "enhanced black," "darker black," or Setup = 0 IRE. That puts black in the video signal at a lower voltage.

Playing in the service menu of a set could also alter the voltage threshold which the display interprets as black to be too high. Everything below that incorrectly high threshold then becomes indistinguishable from black. That means shadow details will be lost.

Thanks a million Guy, I just messed with mine enough to get the drop shadow on the THX. The funny thing was that I had been able to see it right after I got the set, and then I did a whole mess of tweaks. A couple of months ago, I remember doing this test and wondering why I wasn't able to see the drop shadow.

I've done the umr tweaks (and I spent a while undoing them tonight) and I can say that they have no bearing on the ability to see the drop shadow. My problem was that I had the brightness too low on my DVD player - the thing has too many knobs - you can set gamma on it for crying out loud. Anyway, I increased the brightness on the DVD player, and the drop shadow came back. I think I recall setting it to the defaults at one point thinking it would be easier to set everything on the TV.

I can't believe the difference in the picture quality on DVDs. The picture actually seems more detailed and very clear. Monsters Inc., the only title I could ever see solarization on, is perfect now. Thanks a million - and for those out there who can't see the drop shadow - you need to!



Ron

Ron, glad to hear you got your system components to agree with each other about what level black is at. This wasn't so much of a problem before we saw so much digital processing circuitry which didn't have enough leeway in what signals they could pass without clipping off the tops and bottoms of signals. Now you really should use something with test material which is very nearly at max black and max white to check if your settings are causing any clipping.

The black level bars in AVIA (and Home Theatre Tune-up) are only 1 and 2 IRE above the digital level which is defined as true black for standards compliant video material. That gives you even finer testing for clipping than the +4 IRE signals you find in a traditional PLUGE pattern. Similarly, at the bright end, AVIA and HTT white level bars are 1 and 2 IRE below digital white. The combination gives you something with to test for clipping at either end of the signal processing range.

Some DVD's do carry picture information in the reserved signal levels which are below black and above white. Video material should not exceed the limits when properly mastered, but not everything is that well mastered. For instance, the original Charlie's Angels DVD has its white level above the legal digital 235 level. That means that disc will show clipping of bright image details on any equipment which does not accept higher than normal signal levels. Hopefully, such transgressions of signal level standards will remain the exception.

Eddie M

I had ghosting on mine as well. The fix was to adjust the image revision in the users menu. I took it of of auto and set it to 2 I believe. I have to thank umr for pointing that out and I'm suprised he didn't suggest it.

Guy,

What brought you to this thread?

Secrets Editor In-Chief has Sony Grand Wega.

Interview (http://www.sdinfo.com/videos/tech-tv/tech-tv-3-2003.wmv)

Originally posted by Guy Kuo
Ron, glad to hear you got your system components to agree with each other about what level black is at. This wasn't so much of a problem before we saw so much digital processing circuitry which didn't have enough leeway in what signals they could pass without clipping off the tops and bottoms of signals. Now you really should use something with test material which is very nearly at max black and max white to check if your settings are causing any clipping.

The black level bars in AVIA (and Home Theatre Tune-up) are only 1 and 2 IRE above the digital level which is defined as true black for standards compliant video material. That gives you even finer testing for clipping than the +4 IRE signals you find in a traditional PLUGE pattern. Similarly, at the bright end, AVIA and HTT white level bars are 1 and 2 IRE below digital white. The combination gives you something with to test for clipping at either end of the signal processing range.

Some DVD's do carry picture information in the reserved signal levels which are below black and above white. Video material should not exceed the limits when properly mastered, but not everything is that well mastered. For instance, the original Charlie's Angels DVD has its white level above the legal digital 235 level. That means that disc will show clipping of bright image details on any equipment which does not accept higher than normal signal levels. Hopefully, such transgressions of signal level standards will remain the exception.


Thanks for the tips Guy. I actually found the newest Optimode tests to be the best for white and black levels. The 8 segment white box with distinct shades of white seem to be very good for setting Contrast. My panels aren't thresholding, and now the black level is good too. I didn't just increase brightness on the DVD player, I actually had to modify the settings for Contrast and Brightness on both devices to get everything right. I've noticed the problem with Charlie's Angels too - it's actually murderous on HBO as well. Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Barrels has some above white too - but only in some scenes, I chalk that up to a film exposure issue - it being Guy Richie's first. Just when I thought I was done tuning this thing...

At some point I should just have Chuck Williams ISF my set.



Thanks,

Ron

Originally posted by umr
I would check out the following possibilities:

- Your Sharpness is not set correctly
- You have not done the enhancement reduction tweaks
- The movie you are looking at has edge enhancement (no fix)
- You have some kind of enhancement function enabled on your DVD player

Thanks UMR,

I will double check for (1),(3),(4) as per your suggestion. I know I did (2) as instructed in your tweak sheet.

How can one tell if the DVD has edge enhancement?

Originally posted by NightHawk
Eddie M

I had ghosting on mine as well. The fix was to adjust the image revision in the users menu. I took it of of auto and set it to 2 I believe. I have to thank umr for pointing that out and I'm suprised he didn't suggest it.

I try that too but no go :confused:

Originally posted by umr
Curl it and slip the filter up the right side of the projector lens as shown in the photo.

UMR, I ordered my filter and I have a question about this part. When you say "curl it" do I just bend it into a U shape? That is what the picture looks like to me.

Originally posted by umr

The filter ends up resting on a ledge in front of and behind the filter. It is pretty easy to see and feel, but impossible to photograph..

This is confusing to me, but maybe it will make sense when I do it. There are two ledges, one in front and one behind the filter that it rests on?

I am so thrilled with this TV, the only thing I'd change if I could, would be the darkness of the black level. Since it seems I can change this I am going to go for it. (I am a tinkerer anyway.) My only concern will be doing color correction after the filter is installed. I have my Avia and VE DVDs as well as the guide, so I hope I'll get it right.

Thanks again UMR, I only wish I could contribute something in return for all your help.

I have updated my Excel spreadsheet describing Service Menu values for the KF-60XBR800.

There are 8 columns, describing the Vivid, Standard, Pro, and Mild modes for both Satellite (720p) and DVD (480p) input.

At the very least, the listing of the 569 Categories/Item Names in the Service Menu might prove useful. A total of 4,552 values have been archived.

UMR's suggested tweaks can be found in the leftmost column. Notes on the application of those tweaks can be found in the rightmost column.

NOTE: I have compressed the Excel Spreadsheet using Winzip. You'll need to unzip the file before viewing.

thanks,
-- John

Originally posted by Nullman
UMR, I ordered my filter and I have a question about this part. When you say "curl it" do I just bend it into a U shape? ...

...There are two ledges, one in front and one behind the filter that it rests on?...

Yes, I just bent it only enough to fit next to the lens. I did not want to crease it.

Yep there is a ledge in front and behind the lens that the filter can rest on.

I thought I was almost done with the tweaking process, but...

Last night I noticed that when my DVD player (Sony NS725P) is in Progressive Scan mode, the top quarter of my screen shudders very noticably. Looks like every few frames the top quarter of the screen is scewed badly. The result is a shuddering effect. If I turn off the progressive scan mode the effect disappears entirely.

Has anyone experienced anything like this before?

thanks,
-- John

Great job - does anyone have a spreadsheet for the KF-50XBR800 or can I assume the settings would be the same as those for the KF-60.
Thx.
Tom H.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by jcolosi
[B]I have updated my Excel spreadsheet describing Service Menu values for the KF-60XBR800.

Originally posted by jcolosi
I thought I was almost done with the tweaking process, but...

Last night I noticed that when my DVD player (Sony NS725P) is in Progressive Scan mode, the top quarter of my screen shudders very noticably. Looks like every few frames the top quarter of the screen is scewed badly. The result is a shuddering effect. If I turn off the progressive scan mode the effect disappears entirely.

Has anyone experienced anything like this before?

thanks,
-- John

I have not seen this, but have you pushed overscan to less than 5%? You might want to try backing off to 4 or 5% if you have.

Eddie,

Another possibility is that you are seeing crosstalk from adjacent pixels on the LCD panels. This can look like edge enhancement or ghosting. I posted some information on this in this thread. Sony claims to be able to eliminate this effect, but I have my doubts.

Here is the post. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2105026#post2105026)

UMR, Thanks for your advice. It is the DVD (Castlel in the sky) that give the ghost hight light. All other DVD move look fine. I find that out when I play the same movie on my lap top computer and I saw the same problem.

Bought the GW II today and Very excited.

A few questions about the tweaks.

I am reading about a filter. Where do you get it and how hard is it to install?

Can an person with above average technology skills make service menu changes w/o screwing up the TV??

Thanks

Hi,

Does anyone knows the username/password to download GWI service menu from the sony-service site posted before ??? If not, can someone please send me a PM with the manual ???

BTW, I have a KF-60DX100 (GWI) and most of the tweaks works fine. The service menu has some different values, comparing to GWII, but it´s easy to associate with the tweaks posted here.

UMR, nice job !!! Thanks for your patience !!!

Dear UMR,

I finally got my GWII and am about to get toyour tweaks this weekend.

My question is whether there is a big difference in PQ with standard cable versus digital cable box (Ihave crappy time warner with no HD on the horizon). Also, do you still recommend the directy connect cable to the GWII.

Eventually plan on getting HD DirectTV once the newer boxes are out, but i still need to try to get the fuzz out of the SD cable feed for my local channels

Thanks Prof

More tweaking...

Worked on the set some more - HD and DVD looked different after I adjusted for the BTB bars. DVD was great, but my cable box was blooming.

The technique I used will only work if you have the ability to adjust "normal tv" settings on your source device. My DVD player happens to have all the standard adjustments plus gamma, but if you use an HTPC you can do the same. Just wait until a movie is on that you happen to own the DVD for. It helps if the movie has a recent version of THX Optimode. Attack of the Clones was on, so I synced the DVD to the HD source. I then switched back and forth, adjusting the -DVD- player settings only until both pictures looked exactly the same as far as I could judge. Once I had them both looking the same, I brought up the THX video adjustment tests on the DVD and used the -TV- settings to adjust for the Optimode tests.

Now both sources are identical, and tuned to colorbars and patterns, etc... Man does the stuff from my cable box look good now. :)


Ron

I am trying to learn as much as I can before I start using the adjustments in the tweak file that was posted in this thread. Sorry if this seems like I am asking for an idiot's guide, but the more I learn before I start, the less chance of screwing up my TV image, right?

1. When I look at the tweak file that is posted, are the values in the file the suggested best values or are those values that are the defaults? I assume they are suggested "best" values.

2. While setting my TV to the values in the tweak file, some adjustments call out for an image from a reference disk like Avia. Others do not. Should I be using a reference disk for all values or are you all just looking at the image until it looks good? I have the Avia disk on its way.

3. The following table is in the tweak file. Are these default settings or suggested settings?

01/30/2003
Composite Component DVI
480i 480i 1080i
Pro Pro Pro
Video 1 Video 5 Video 7
Satellite DVD HD
100% [64 ticks] 100% [64 ticks] 100% [64 ticks]
31% [20 ticks] 31% [20 ticks] 31% [20 ticks]
44% [28 ticks] 44% [28 ticks] 44% [28 ticks]
52% [33 ticks) 52% [33 ticks) 52% [33 ticks)
27% [17 ticks] 27% [17 ticks] 27% [17 ticks]
On On On
Warm Warm Warm
1 1 1
100 100 100
Set For Your TV Set For Your TV Set For Your TV

4. On the first adjustment: PIC BOOST 2 OSP, the note is to readjust sharpness after setting the vaule. Adjust sharpness with another setting like PIC BOOST 3 or with the tv's little adjustment box (DRC?) that is accessable via the menu from the TV's remote.

5. On PIC BOOST 2 VGAM it is suggested that Picture and Brightness be readjusted. Is that accomplished with the adjustments accessable through the TV remote? or another setting in the service menu?

Thank you so much for the help!
Matt

Matt,

Study page 2 of 12. It shows you which values are suggested and which require test material to set properly. MOST of the values need to be calibrated for your equipment. The values shown are what I ended up with the last time I posted the tweaks. I would not call these "best" they are just what I was using.

Picture, Brightness and Sharpness are User Menu Items not Service Menu.

I seem to remember someone mentioning that the TV should stay on for 80 hours prior to setting the tweaks. Is this correct? If so, does on mean "on and set to something like TV where an image is displayed"?

Thank you for your help. I look forward to starting.
Matt

MSteele,

I would not wait.

Here is a photo of the same image on my GWII using a Panasonic XP30 as a photo posted on the web from a Hitachi TWX20B using a Samsung DVI player. The poster claimed the resolution was exceptional. See if you can guess which is which. The photo is from the menu on Shrek.

This is a little bit of apples and oranges, but I found it interesting.

The answer is...:D

That was a fun game. Can we have more? :D
UMR, have you tried a DVI player or will you in the future?

Feddie,

I am glad you enjoyed it.

I don't plan to get a DVI player until I see a photo where it is significantly better than what I get today. Dealing with the single DVI connection is a problem today and I see no reason to do it so far.

You also loose the ability to tweak that input for HDTV separate from the DVD player. That would be a problem if the sources did not convert the MPEG streams to DVI exactly the same. I would not be surprised to find that my Samsung T165 handled an HD MPEG stream differently than a Bravo D1 handles a NTSC MPEG stream.

Here is the thread where the Hitachi photo came from. (http://www.hometheaterspot.com/htsthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB63&Number=436445&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1)

The Hitachi set was ISF calibrated about 4 months ago based on his previous posts.

But UMR -

Thats like comparing Apples to Oranges - you need two images from a GWII with both a DVI and Non-DVI equipped player connected!

Your tweaks have made such a difference in the pleasure I am getting from my 60" GWII -- but I have to say HONESTLY - that when I got the Bravo D1, it made a SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE from my two other DVD players (a Sony DVP-S7000 and a Philips DVD-R1000 DVD+RW Recorder). Good DVD's now rival some of the lesser HD transfers I have seen on HBO-HD and SHO-HD -- and I am being totaly serious here!

Meanwhile - changing my Samsung SIR-TS160 HD DirecTV receiver from the DVI input to the Component input resulted in literaly no difference in picture quality. For $199 I think the Bravo D1 is a bargain considering the amount of difference it make in my enjoyment of DVD Movies.

I would highly suggest you see if V Inc. would lend you one for review - and don't doubt that you'de be able to get one. There is a rep from V Inc. that frequently posts to the DVD forum -- give it a try!

Aaron

Can you post a photo from a DVD that I have?

Hi UMR

I second aaron.s remarks. I just received a Bravo D1 last week and did a direct comparison with the Sony DVP-S7000. The picture quality just blew the Sony away. The 3d effect and smoothness of the picture and also the accuracy's of the colors was so much better that I will only use the Sony for music. I have only played about 4 DVD's but no lockups and the PQ is amazing.

My Panasonic blew away my DVP-S7000. Show me the proof. I also have D-VHS so loosing HDCP support is an issue for me.

Here is a screen capture vs. my GWII. Ignoring the color balance and level problems with my photo the difference in resolution is what is left to capture.

UMR -

D-VHS doesn't have a DVI ouput - it has a component output, so how can that matter?

In addition to the DVP-S7000, I also have the Philips DVD-R1000 DVD+RW recorder connected via 480p component to the GWII and was extremely pleased with it's DVD output -- the Bravo D1 still blew it out of the water!

Aaron