Ed and Aaron,

Any reason, other than price, that you chose the Bravo D1 over the Samsung HD931?

The Zoom works real nice. It seem to be the better choice for the GWII at least for me. With the MX700 remote I can control everything with a push of a button. For the price it was the best choice and I still have my S7000 for playing music and watching DVD's that the D1 might have trouble on (have not had any yet). IMHO

Originally posted by aaron.s
UMR -

D-VHS doesn't have a DVI ouput - it has a component output, so how can that matter?...

I use the Firewire connection on mine to my T165 connected through the DVI input.

Hey UMR

How is the filter holding up. Mine is still on backorder.

Originally posted by Ed Van Belkom
Hey UMR

How is the filter holding up. Mine is still on backorder.

No problems at this time.

I have my GWII connected via DVI with a Radeon 7500 and when I try to play the Unreal 2 3-d game, I'm experiencing what I think is tearing.

Whenever a large amount of data is thrown at the display, it flashes blank for a tenth of a second or so. Do any of you experience this on your DVI-connected HTPC to GWII when running your PowerDVD or games?

Please see the following in the HTPC forum for configuration details and an MPEG file showing the "blank screen flashing" problem http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=282848 I don't mean to cross-post, but I might have put in in the wrong forum to begin with since most GWII HTPC users read this thread.

Originally posted by Feddie
Ed and Aaron,

Any reason, other than price, that you chose the Bravo D1 over the Samsung HD931?

I know I'm not Ed or Aaron, but I've researched and followed these two players for some time. There were some problems with the 931 with the HS-10 owners (a Sony LCD projector with DVI/HDCP). With what is probably many shared internals, I am leery of using the 931 with a GWII. Also, there is edge enhancement on the DCDi chip being used in the 931. Many are opting for the D1 to avoid this.


Mark_la, your video is too small and too overcompressed me to see what you're talking about. There is no movement on the screen which is what I'd associate with tearing. All I see is a blanking of the screen about midway through the clip. Are you overclocking your video card? If so, return the GPU And memory freqs to normal and see if that corrects what you're seeing.

Ron

Originally posted by UUronl


Mark_la, your video is too small and too overcompressed me to see what you're talking about. There is no movement on the screen which is what I'd associate with tearing. All I see is a blanking of the screen about midway through the clip. Are you overclocking your video card? If so, return the GPU And memory freqs to normal and see if that corrects what you're seeing.

Ron

I guess I was using the wrong term, but the blanking of the screen midway through the clip is what I'm talking about. I'm not overclocking the video card either. This blanking never ocurrs when I'm just looking at a static text or graphics screen, only in situations that require a lot of movement like scrolling or moving windows and such, as well as PowerDVD maybe once every 2 minutes of playback. Other than that, the PowerDVD through DVI image at 1280 x 720p rivals film-transfer HDTV on HBO-HD.

I noticed I had to turn sharpness all the way off with my Bravo D1 via DVI, anyone else? (I used Avia and VE to calibrate.) As I posted in another thread the difference is night and day compared to my Technics A10 via component input. I could never completely get rid of a small white line to the left on the shapness tests with the Technics, with the Bravo that line isn't there. And, the difference I see is not only with test patterns, but with real movies. The test patterns did show the differences too. The freq sweeps on Avia had a lot of problems on my Technics toward the right of the sweep, not so with the Bravo.

Originally posted by umr
Matt,

Study page 2 of 12. It shows you which values are suggested and which require test material to set properly. MOST of the values need to be calibrated for your equipment. The values shown are what I ended up with the last time I posted the tweaks. I would not call these "best" they are just what I was using.

Picture, Brightness and Sharpness are User Menu Items not Service Menu.

UMR, are these the settings you used before adding the CC filter? IIRC, you had to recalibrate after adding the filter.

Originally posted by Nullman
UMR, are these the settings you used before adding the CC filter? IIRC, you had to recalibrate after adding the filter.

These were what I was using before the filter, but you should calibrate your set.

I was comparing the settings listed in the Excel file to the settings that my GWII came with, and I noticed that a bunch didn't line up with the factory defaults. I was wondering whether the Excel file is accurate, if my TV didn't ship with "factory settings", or if i'm doing something wrong. I am comparing my TV set to PRO in 720P against the same column in the Excel file. I'd appreciate any opinions on whether to change these to the recommended settings, or to leave them the way they are. Thanks in advance for any help.

The settings that are different are:

2103-1
YLEV was 32 excel says 35
SCON was 12 excel says 11
SHUE was 7 excel says 8
CBO1 was 42 excel says 45
CRO1 was 37 excel says 48
CBO2 was 42 excel says 45
CRO2 was 37 excel says 48

2103-2
SCON was 9 excel says 10
SCOL was 7 excel says 9
SHFO was 0 excel says 1
AFCG was 1 excel says 0
HMSK was 0 excel says 1

2170P-3
MIDE was 23 excel says 28

2170P-4
RROF was 15 excel says 9
RBOF was 9 excel says 7
GROF was 5 excel says 7
GBOF was 9 excel says 7

2170D-3
BBLK was 2 excel says 6

CXA2151
HMSK was 0 excel says 1

MID1
DVPH was 21 excel says 34
MDVS was 135 excel says 127

CCD
ID1M was 4 excel says 7

OP
OSDH was 13 excel says 15

Originally posted by umr
These were what I was using before the filter, but you should calibrate your set.

I plan to, thanks - I was just curious. My filter is still on order. I can't express how happy I am with the TV after tweaking my set, mostly to remove the "enchacements" that seemed to amplify DirecTVs compression artifacts. The last tweak I want to make is installing the CC filter to add contrast and darnken up the blacks a bit.

What do you guys recommend for an HD box with the GWII, for both over the air and DirecTV? The Sony HD200 or Samsung TS160 or someting else??
I am not planning to use the DVI output since I want to hook up a DVD player to the DVI input, but do want the DVI output on the HD box in case I want to use it in the future.
What do you all recommend?? Thanks!

I just received both copies of DVE on D-VHS. I have only looked at the 720p version so far.

The Pluses So Far:
Great Color Filters Compared To Avia Or VE
HD Test Patterns Improved Color Decoder, Geometry & Brightness Settings
Video Test Material Is Very High Quality
The GWII Looks Very Good So Far On Test Material


The Minuses So Far:
It's A Tape
Could Have Included More Test Images Instead Of Pushing Progressive Format

Did UMR just write "In the house?" :D

Any idea what, if anything, will be different on the DVD version?

I am sure he will add a menu system along with chapters and titles. I would guess the HD frequency sweeps would not be present either.

I was just going to load in my 1080i copy and found out they sent me two 720p versions.:(

More delays.

Where are those photos from your DVI compatible DVD players? Inquisitive minds want to know.:D

I would sure like to see a close-up of the Shrek menu that I posted from my XP30.

I would also like to see if DVI DVD players look better on the GW. UMR, did you ever get the screen shots from this thread?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=283025&highlight=xbr+better+than

Originally posted by Feddie
I would also like to see if DVI DVD players look better on the GW. UMR, did you ever get the screen shots from this thread?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=283025&highlight=xbr+better+than

No. The only DVI capable DVD player photo I have seen is posted further up in this thread. I read quite a bit of boasting, but see no proof that it is in reality any better on the GWII or than my photos.

Look at the screen capture vs. my GWII photo. Ignoring the poor color of the photo the resolution differences are VERY small.

The DVI player feeding the ISF calibrated Hitachi looks worse than my GWII if you look at that photo. I doubt that would be true with a DVI player feeding the GWII, but the improvement available is pretty small.

Unfortunately, because the GWII converts the DVI input to analog and then directs it down the same path as the component input, it is unlikely that that GWII will see the same degree of enhanced resolution via DVI that can be seen with other sets. This has been my experience in comparing DVI vs. component on the GWII and on a Marantz VP12s2 projector. On the GWII DVI input only marginally improved the resolution over the component and results in loss of a number of the controls. On the VP12s2, the benefits of the DVI input over component are no less than astounding.

Harry,

Do you believe your projector has "blow away" type of resolution over the GWII?

I don't see how this is possible when mine reproduces resolution test patterns that are nearly perfect for 480p and excellent for 720p. Mine can cleanly resolve crossing single pixel lines on the component input with a 480p signal. It also has outstanding chroma resolution.

UMR:

I never meant to imply that the projector blows away the GWII in terms of resolution. It would be highly unlikely that a 110" diagonal image could ever blow away a 60 inch diagonal image in terms of resolution....unless the 60" image was very poor (which with both know is absolutely NOT the case with the GWII).

If you reread my post you will see that I was comparing the degree of improvement of DVI over component for the projector and for the GWII....and not comparing the projector with the GWII.

To summarize: Projector: DVI resolution >>> Component resolution
GWII: DVI resolution only marginally better than component

I do wish Sony had let the DVI path remain digital further down the line instead of the rapid conversion back to analog. If that were the case, more of the benefits of DVI might show up for GWII users.

Harry,

I was not sure from your post what you thought about the resolution difference between your RPTV and your FP. I looked at a Sim 300+ a while back and was surprised how well the GWII compared in both HD and DVD playback. I know many people prefer the Marantz over the Sim, but I have not seen it.

UMR:

I compared the Sim 300+ and the Marantz and decided on the Marantz. My sense is that the primary colors (particularly green) may be slightly more accurate on the Sim, but the black level and resolution (via DVI) on the Marantz is absolutely outstanding. I've been very happy with my choice. I believe that the Marantz is happiest when it is being fed 720p via DVI. I have all sources running into a Focus Enhancements CS2 for this purpose.

It is still my firm belief that the GWII with appropriate adjustment cannot be beat as a RPTV.

Harry

Does anyone have the Factory Settings for Video 1 480i (S-video connection)? If not, a way to reset the TV.

On mine they are:

PIC-BOOST2/OSP - 0
PIC-BOOST2/PKNG - 25
PIC-BOOST2/VGAM - 28
PIC-BOOST3/CDLY - 4
2170P-1/RDRV - 47
2170P-1/GDRV - 47
2170P-1/BDRV - 47
2170P-1/RCUT - 23
2170P-1/GCUT - 24
2170P-1/BCUT - 24
2170P-2/UPCG - 31
2170P-2/UBRG - 31
2170P-2/UCOL - 31
2170P-2/UHUE - 31
2170P-2/USHP - 31
2170P-2/UTMP - 1
2170P-2/UPOG - 38
2170P-2/UBOG - 18
2170P-2/UCOF - 31
2170P-2/UHOF - 31
2170P-2/SHOF - 31
2170P-4/SCOL - 31
2170P-4/SHUE - 31
2170P-4/SPIC - 8
2170P-4/GAMM - 6
2170P-4/BLK - 0
2170P-4/RYR - 10
2170P-4/RYB - 13
2170P-4/GYR - 11
2170P-4/GYB - 3
MID1/BCOL - 1
MID1/DHPH - 119
MID1/DVPH - 17
MID1/MDHS - 163
MID1/MDVS - 120
MID2/DRHP - 154
MID2/DRHS - 164
MID2/DRVP - 37
MID2/DRVS - 120
MID5/MHLY - 2
MID5/MVLY - 1
MID5/MHLY - 1
H POS AD/HPOS ADJ - 125
H POS AD/VPOS ADJ - 130
PLL-C/VCOL - 162

I have the 60" GWII. Does anybody know if changes to the Service Menu settings are lost if the TV is unplugged for several hours?

Originally posted by bertschb
I have the 60" GWII. Does anybody know if changes to the Service Menu settings are lost if the TV is unplugged for several hours?

Only if you did not write them into memory.

I did write them to memory several months ago. What's weird is just a few days ago I was thinking "boy, those black levels sure look much nicer than they did out of the box." I've actually had this thought MANY times since I changed the settings. Then this evening while watching an HD program that I recorded with my Zenith 230 the blacks look all wrong again. We had thunderstorms a couple days ago (which are very rare in my area) so I unplugged the power. I thought because of the poor blacks that my settings were lost.

I guess I need to go back into the service menu and check the settings again.

You probably lost the user menu settings though unless you setup the reset feature.

It doesn't look like I lost the user settings. But, I did notice that the TV wasn't in Pro mode- it was in Standard mode. I did all the Service Menu changes in Pro mode. I'll have to watch closely this evening to see if that was my problem.

I need some time to read up on how to get back into the Service Menu. It took quite a while for me to get the courage to do that the first time.

I don't recall anything about a reset feature. Is that in the Tweaks doc? The last version I printed was dated 2/18/2003.

Originally posted by bertschb
...I don't recall anything about a reset feature. Is that in the Tweaks doc? The last version I printed was dated 2/18/2003.

I believe it was in that version. You can set the default user menu settings for each picture mode in the SM and restore them by pressing the reset button while you are on the user menu settings.

If you are using Video Essentials or Jim Taylor's DVD Demystified here is a link that is useful to understand the Snell & Wilcox test pattern.

Pattern Info (http://www.snellwilcox.com/reference/testchart.html)

Can anyone please post some stand options for the GWII KF-xxXBR800. Or at least give some opinions on the stands that have been used with these models. Thanks.

Try the search engine, here is a thread I found.

GWII Stands (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=197812)

Dear UMR or Others,

I thought I read to leave the GWII turned on for 3 days straight when you first buy it. Is this true and what benefit does that have in the long run? I tried a search but could not find anything. Thanks for any info provided.

Originally posted by mgoblue
Dear UMR or Others,

I thought I read to leave the GWII turned on for 3 days straight when you first buy it. Is this true and what benefit does that have in the long run? I tried a search but could not find anything. Thanks for any info provided.

There is a belief that the bulb should be conditioned by leaving it on for an extended period initially. Those who adhere to this belief believe it will last longer in the end.

I have found no proof to support this belief and have seen none presented to date. I did not follow this behavior and have about 1600 hours on my bulb at this point. We may know in a few years if it mattered.

http://www.ikea-usa.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10101&storeId=12&productId=11299&langId=-1&parentCats=10104*10173*10407

Originally posted by Chorizo
I was comparing the settings listed in the Excel file to the settings that my GWII came with, and I noticed that a bunch didn't line up with the factory defaults. I was wondering whether the Excel file is accurate, if my TV didn't ship with "factory settings", or if i'm doing something wrong. I am comparing my TV set to PRO in 720P against the same column in the Excel file. I'd appreciate any opinions on whether to change these to the recommended settings, or to leave them the way they are. Thanks in advance for any help.

The settings that are different are:

2103-1
YLEV was 32 excel says 35

...

OP
OSDH was 13 excel says 15

Discrepancies between your factory settings and those listed in the Excel spreadsheet may occur for several reasons:

- The spreadsheet is specific to the KF-60XBR800 The manual implies settings may differ between this and the 50" model.

- The TV stores settings dependant on your input type and display mode. The spreadsheet describes component input from input #5 at 720p and component input from input #6 at 420p. (It looks like you are viewing the correct column)

- I suppose it is possible for two televisions which are otherwise identical to have different factory settings.


I would encourage you to experiment with the differences you mention above. If, all other things being equal, you feel your setting or a different setting is better, then I can check it out and make a change.

-- John

All -

Ikea makes great furniture... Myself and many others have gotten this stand (in black) instead -- only $79:

http://www.ikea-usa.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10101&storeId=12&productId=11149&langId=-1&parentCats=10104*10174

It supports up to 150lbs (60" GWII weighs 138) and is nearly as wide as the TV itself, which makes it look GREAT. The height is also PERFECT for the GWII.

Aaron

I have the TechCraft Monaco series TV stand. It is perfect for the 50" - not big enough for the 60. I have the birch, silver, and clear glass. The wood is solid real wood. I think they have them at Sears, but I got mine online. Mine is 20" high which is about the upper limit for the GWII. Fits my DefTech C/L/R 2300 underneath, has plenty of room and top ventilation for my AVR-3802 underneath the speaker on the bottom shelf.

side view of the stand

aaron.s:
just to make sure I'm understanding you, the IKEA stand is available in black?

mlandau -

Yes - definately - I have one! My friend who also just got a 60" GWII just bought his Black Oppli stand from the Ikea in NJ about 2 weeks ago.... $79

Aaron

Got my 60" two weeks ago, no bad pixels, no tilt.

Use StarChoice sat. with the 405 reciever, and find the differences in PQ in SD varies WILDLY from channel to channel.

Went through UMR's tweaks and made it BETTER, but still ABC, CBS and NBC channels look like mud. Premium channels (movie networks/ppv) look great most of the time.

Is there anyway to improve this ?

BTW, do any of the canadians here have the HD Sidecar? Is it worth it for only 3 HD channels?

Got my 60" two weeks ago, no bad pixels, no tilt.

Use StarChoice sat. with the 405 reciever, and find the differences in PQ in SD varies WILDLY from channel to channel.

Went through UMR's tweaks and made it BETTER, but still ABC, CBS and NBC channels look like mud. Premium channels (movie networks/ppv) look great most of the time.

Is there anyway to improve this ?

BTW, do any of the canadians here have the HD Sidecar? Is it worth it for only 3 HD channels?

Hey,
When I try to play some .ts or .tp files, I receive a detroit area map, and I can only listen the sound. Does anyone experience this ?? I´m getting crazy...
Thanks

Actually I use the same TechCraft stand for the 60" and it works fine. Looks good as well. I can post pictures if you want to see it with a 60"

I was able to checkout a V Inc. DVD player for several hours last night. It was connected by DVI to a 50" GWII. I have no desire to replace my XP30 based on what I saw, but I do see how people could be happy with it. The performance of this deck varied depending on what type of output was selected and what type of source was available.

720P or 1080I Output:

- The best 4:3 performance I have seen on a GWII.
- Anamorphic DVD's were soft compared to XP30. It looked more like my old Sony DVP-S7000.

480p Output:

- Relatively poor 4:3 performance.
- Anamorphic DVD's were as good as the XP30 or maybe slightly better.

When the source material was 4:3 the deck added black bars that appeared to be too large on 480p. This seemed to compress the image such that the GWII could not display it properly. I tried stretching the picture, but it did not help. However, when the deck did not add the black bars the 480p mode was the best. It appears that only allowing the TV to scale the image was better than letting the DVD player and TV do it.

The player also locked up a couple of times while I was jumping around various DVDs.

I would be switching the output of this deck depending on the movie I was watching. 480p for anamorphic DVD's and 720p for 4:3. This would require calibrating the DVI input for both types of inputs.

Dear GWII Group,

What do you think I should pay to pick up a 50" GWII? What is the best source?

Thanks.

TGI is is clearing all GWII presently in stock (I spoke with the buyer apparently he over estimated demand a bit) and they have the 60" for $3999 and the 50" for $3699.

Thanks. What is TGI? Could you please post a url?

The Great Indoors. They do not have either of these two on their web site you will have to go to the store. They are now shipping the GWIII's. The 60" is $3999 and the 50" is $3299

Here is the link:

http://www.thegreatindoors.com/

TGI is owned and operated by Sears. Very high end Home improvment and furnishings. Sears has cut some deals with Sony and they are the first to get them in stock

I am color deficient and do not trust my eyes when it comes to color.

I have a 50" GWII and had a few question

1. Can I just input the values in the service menu without using THX Optimizer/Avia/VE?

2. Star Wars has a THX optimizer and on the 16:9 screen the outer box is not centered on my screen. Seems a little left, can that be adjusted?

Thanks

Originally posted by stick30
...1. Can I just input the values in the service menu without using THX Optimizer/Avia/VE?

2. Star Wars has a THX optimizer and on the 16:9 screen the outer box is not centered on my screen. Seems a little left, can that be adjusted?

Thanks

I would not use my values directly except for those that reduce enhancement.


You can adjust the image size/position with the MID1/2 tweaks documented in the tweaks guide.

You know.. I remember when this thread was only on page two...
Anyways, great stuff here! I'm running a custom built HTPC with a radeon 9500 via DVI to my GWII. Now I've heard that the DVI is similar in quality to the component (something to do with the digital to analog path..). My question is: Has anyone done the Mike Parker (MP1) mod in conjunction with a grand wega. And if so, how does it look compared to the DVI?

Thanks in advance!

llama,

I have not seen a post about someone using that mod with the GWII.

I would not be so broken hearted about DVI being close to component. It appears to me the 480p to 1080i component inputs on this set are very high quality. The Bravo DVD player was able to look a little better with DVI in some cases, but it is also seriously flawed in others. The gap between perfect test images and the output of my DVD-XP30 is very small.

I've been waiting to check out the the GWIII's, but not gonna get one until umr posts a tweaking guide for it ;)

Originally posted by eweiss
You can order/buy the Service Manual for the KF-50XBR800/KF-60XBR800 for $29 + tax + $3.50 s&h from Sony (877) 865-SONY (7669) -- if that # isn't right, eventually you'll get a person who will tell you what toll-free number to call to order the "Service Manual." You'll have it in less than a week, likely -- I think mine came in 4 days -- the same day my TV was delivered from Tweeter. The grids/charts are confusing, but you'll have ALL the information that umr is referring to.

Dear GWII Group,

Does anyone know if the Service Mannual has a Part Number?

Is this still the best way to get one?

Thanks.

That is the best way to get the manual.

The part no. is 9-965-350-01.

how does one reset the service menu to the factory defaults? Thought I'd start over and see if I did something that causes the severe motion blur. Also, my 4:3 stuff is not centered (more black bar on one side than other).

Originally posted by hornmdt
how does one reset the service menu to the factory defaults? Thought I'd start over and see if I did something that causes the severe motion blur. Also, my 4:3 stuff is not centered (more black bar on one side than other).

Manually reenter the values you recorded.:D

UMR,

Is it possible to make the PICBOOST changes without having the service manual?

I finally got around to playing with my new toy (got it three weeks ago but just turned it on this weekend) this past weekend, and can not seem to get any image when attempting to enter the service commands.

If not, then I'll just buy it and then make changes. Thanks.

Chris

CTOM9,

You should be able to do this adjustment without the service manual. I do not understand why you are not getting an image. I would not adjust anything in the service menu unless you can see an image though.

On one of my component inputs I have a progessive DVD player, on the other I have a Gamecube/PS2 (I swap them when neccessary).

I adjusted the DHPH, DVPH, MDHS and MDVS values with THX optimode with my DVD player.

When I run 480p 16x9 games (Burnout2 on PS2, FZeroGX on gamecube) there is ALOT of underscan on the left and right edges of the screen and the image is shifted to the left. I can also tell that the aspect ratio of the screen is wrong. If I plug my DVD player into that very same input, their is no underscan (the DVD looks exactly the same as on the other input).

When I adjust the MID1 values to be optimal for 16x9 games, it causes overscan with my DVD player (which is on a different component input). I thought MID1 was input specific but it does not appear so.

Is there any way to get around this or should I just try to find a middle ground where there is some underscan for games and some overscan for DVD's?

Thanks,
Santos

Originally posted by Santos
... I thought MID1 was input specific but it does not appear so.

Is there any way to get around this or should I just try to find a middle ground where there is some underscan for games and some overscan for DVD's?

Thanks,
Santos

These adjustments are shared for all 480p component inputs. I believe the DVI input for 480p would be separate. Your best bet is probably to find a middle ground.

I just heard the 50xbr800 is discontinued. Any info?

Read here:

Sony Info (http://news.sel.sony.com/digitalimages/album?album_id=144184)

More Sony Info (http://news.sel.sony.com/pressrelease/3734)

Originally posted by umr
Read here:

Sony Info (http://news.sel.sony.com/digitalimages/album?album_id=144184)

More Sony Info (http://news.sel.sony.com/pressrelease/3734)

Dear umr,

Thanks for the info.

Do you plan to get one of these models anytime soon?

Has anyone in this group seen these models?

:-)

I might get the smallest one.

These sets are not available yet. I have heard a few reports of people seeing them, but I would wait to see them for myself.

UMR
By doing your recomended service menu tweaks What exacly are the diffrences that I will see in PQ on SD signals?
thanks in advance for the help

Hi.

I currently own a sony grandwega II and I'm useing this with my HTPC. I've tried for a while now to get 'smooth' pans, but seem to have no luck. Now the pans are not jerky, they just seem blurred... Could this be a limitation of the LCD technology or am I missing something. Here's some specs:

Holo3d I
Radeon 9500 Pro in 1360x720 mode
XCard/Pdi to Holo3d

Any Thoughts? Thanks

Originally posted by MIG1
UMR
By doing your recomended service menu tweaks What exacly are the diffrences that I will see in PQ on SD signals?
thanks in advance for the help

Read the posts in this thread. The differences are discussed in great detail.

Hi UMR/Motjes2:

Thank you for all the work you have done. I am in the market for New GWII and/or the New Model WE610 60".

Have read a lot of the thread and the details, your collective efforts deserve more than commendation and I doubt that even the Sony Engineers have as much experience in really setting this set up in a real world! Thank you so very much, both of you! {Is Tweak 4.5 the latest?}

One issue that both my wife and I noticed in various stores when comparing GWII w/Samsung DLP was the "reflection" of the GWII surface. We are building new home w/window wall ~ 15 ft to right side (when facing). While prime viewing will be at night, I anticipate some ambient light. Has anyone heard whether the newer models will have a more diffuse "glare screen"? Very noticeable in comparison w/Samsung (albeit, we both thought that out of the box on the demo floor, the Samsung was extraordinarily pixelated)!

Addl' ? - I note that Sony has changed the nomenclature for the newer model KF-60WE610 and though the specs seem identical, it does not refer to XBR. Is this and downgrade (hence $ difference - $ 3999 vs $ 4999) or is this just a means of marketing to a larger audience?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts and advice, I've got a bunch of other questions, but this would help seal the decision!

Dave

Tweak 4.5 is the latest version posted. I have some updates, but Motjes2 has been too busy to update it.

I can't speak about the GWIII other than what is published. The glare screen on the GWII is less effective with glare than the Samsung, but it does not interfere as much with PQ IMO.

Have to say that I still think this set is awesome. Got mine last Christmas and after getting a progressive scan dvd player and making the tweaks, movies look fabulous and regular tv looks good too. Thanks again to UMR and Motjes2 for all of their efforts. I'll be hooking my pc up to it in the next couple weeks so I'm sure I'll make even further use of their expertise.

Thanks again guys.

Jason

Besides the cheap little cloth that comes with the GWII, what does everyone use to clean their GWII screen with?

Thanks in advance!!!

Originally posted by Lindy
Besides the cheap little cloth that comes with the GWII, what does everyone use to clean their GWII screen with?

Thanks in advance!!!

I would use the micro fiber cloth. It is designed for cleaning optics.

UMR:

Thanks for info re: Tweaks. It took awhile to find the right "Post" but I have downloaded all your work as well as the Excel Spreadsheet. Will update you re: WE610 vs XBR800. House is still awaiting completion and I don't want to have the equipment in all the dust, dirt and workmen until the last!

Re: other questions - I note from the thread you have the Samsung TS160/ 165 and I would guess DirectTV vs Dish. I've looked at other AVS Threads re: pros/cons of each. Currently have Dish, though "cable-guy" out yest. and couldn't determine whether I had receiver problem(s) or cable prob - therefore ??? Dish. With new installation, I should be able to control runs better (I pulled ~ 1.5 mi of wire - the house will only fall in a tangled mess!). Still I wonder if going with the Sony HD200 (300) w/DVI coupled with a Sony Receiver (my "weakest link") and GWII/III would make life easier - eg remote control etc? I would value your opinion, thanks in advance!

Dave

Dave,

I use a Dish 501 along with a SIR-T165. I use a Philips Pronto with my system to solve the problem of connection complexity. It works very well except the Samsung does not have discrete codes. I have no opinion on the HD200, but I am looking at getting a PVR 921 when they become available.

UMR

Thanks again, I must have assumed your use of DirectTV from discussions r/t SIR-T160 vs Bravo1.

Re: 921 - I visited w/"the cable guy (Dish)" yesterday. The "field" techs don't really have a clue as to 921 release and have yet to be "schooled," so despite the promises and Charly Chat, not expecting it soon. As noted, he had no idea (never seen in 7 yrs) my HM DSR100 (earlier JVC D-VHS Recorder/Sat Receiver), couldn't fix or even check. I got another (4th) one today (admittedly very prompt considering) and it seems to be working - acid test - give it a week (weak)!

Does anyone - Sony, Hughes, Hitachi, Panny, JVC, Zenith, RCA.... put out a HDPVR w/DVI in and out? This might make for an interesting "bridge device" from both Computer and higher end DVD (eg. Bravo) and still permit the single connection DVI on Sony.

Dave

UMR

Just looking at the HD200/300. It has HD-DVI out 1080i,720p,480i,480p and component/RGB (?) (15pin VGA?). Does it simultaneously output to both ports or does it select the "highest" eg DVI only? While I may use the GWII/III for primary HT, it would be nice to send HD Signal to another HD capable TV/Monitor in the adjacent room (< 6 ft).

Since your setup utilizes the 501/SIR-165, how are you routing your Audio to the Outlaw Amp? DVI takes care of Video but to coordinate sound (Sat - Dish 501) (5.1+) w/simultaneous TV Control is "taxing" my thought process even with Pronto or am I just making it too complicated?

Dave

Maybe spousal unit isn't the only problem - ;(

I can't comment on the HD200/300 operation because I don't have one of those.

I route all of my audio signals to my B&K Ref 30 preamp/processor. The XP30, 501, JVC 30K and SIR-165 all feed in to different optical inputs. I have a macro setup to switch the inputs on the TV and preamp anytime I switch what I am watching. Actually DVI and firewire only handle the HD inputs. I route the 501, JVC30 and XP30 for 480p/i inputs directly to the TV.

UMR,
Is the "Avia" cd needed to do your tweaks? Can I do the tweaks with just the instruction sheet? Should I have a still image displayed on the TV as I am doing the tweaks so that I can see how the image looks?

Originally posted by Sommer3
UMR

Just looking at the HD200/300. It has HD-DVI out 1080i,720p,480i,480p and component/RGB (?) (15pin VGA?). Does it simultaneously output to both ports or does it select the "highest" eg DVI only? While I may use the GWII/III for primary HT, it would be nice to send HD Signal to another HD capable TV/Monitor in the adjacent room (< 6 ft).

Since your setup utilizes the 501/SIR-165, how are you routing your Audio to the Outlaw Amp? DVI takes care of Video but to coordinate sound (Sat - Dish 501) (5.1+) w/simultaneous TV Control is "taxing" my thought process even with Pronto or am I just making it too complicated?

Dave

Maybe spousal unit isn't the only problem - ;(

I have the HD200 and it does not output simultaneously any of the ports. There is a switch on the back to select either DVI, component or RGB. To output the signal via svideo or composite you have to change to Video 1/2 which can be done via the remote. I am not sure, but think the HD300 might simultaneously output the signals. Check out the HDTV Hardware forum.

I am just beginning to use a HTPC with the GWII, mainly for DVD playback. I'm not sure what resolutions under powerstrip would be the most appropriate for the GWII (e.g., 1280x720 or 1368x768, using the settings listed in version 4.5) given the native resolution of the screen? Or does it matter that much?

Thanks,

Mike

Originally posted by dan1home
UMR,
Is the "Avia" cd needed to do your tweaks? Can I do the tweaks with just the instruction sheet? Should I have a still image displayed on the TV as I am doing the tweaks so that I can see how the image looks?

The tweaks cannot be done with just the instruction sheet. You should know that though if you read them.

Doesn't anyone have an answer for my question above?

Thanks!

I personally like 1360x720.

DO THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK OF COURSE!!!

I finally found what is causing enhancement on vertical lines in the service menu. This is a very significant improvement. My picture was very sharp before. This makes it even more film like by removing the small amount of enhancement (ringing) that was still present on vertical lines. There was a little edginess before that is now gone.

Category 2170P-3

Item # 0

Item Name - SYSM

Initial Value for 480p - 1

Best value with my setup - 3

Notes: This change shifts the image slightly to the left. You might want to recenter after doing this. To see the effect of this change place an image on the screen with sharp vertical lines and transitions from 0 to 100 IRE. I used Jim Taylor's images from "DVD Demystified" for this. His one pixel crossing line pattern is excellent for verifying what this does.

i just performed the umr tweaks. question.

when i, or someone else, changes the picture mode (using user menu settings)...does this mean that the overall settings change?

or does only the user settings changed? i would hate for all my service menu settings to go away.

shoot...forgot to ask.

i'm trying to tweak my cable tv settings. should i use the same settings as composite or component? or is there a place i can find the optimal cable tv settings? not a very clear picture. coax cable from the wall.

thanks.

Originally posted by imajazz
i just performed the umr tweaks. question.

when i, or someone else, changes the picture mode (using user menu settings)...does this mean that the overall settings change?

or does only the user settings changed? i would hate for all my service menu settings to go away.

You may not understand what you did. Some settings in the SM are picture mode specific. They will not be lost if you wrote them to memory. The UM settings and some of the SM settings will change when you change picture mode.

Originally posted by imajazz
shoot...forgot to ask.

i'm trying to tweak my cable tv settings. should i use the same settings as composite or component? or is there a place i can find the optimal cable tv settings? not a very clear picture. coax cable from the wall.

thanks.

You must determine the optimal settings for your RF input. The items shown in the SM and UM tweaks are where you should focus your attention. Note in the procedure where there are asterisks and not.

UMR/Rgathright:

UMR - Thanks for the update re: your B&K / component setups, I believe my Sony ES Receiver will do similar inputs, though no where near as nicely. I was hopeful that most of the rear inputs to the GWII/III could be bypassed via the HD200 (Zenith (LG) 520) utilizing either component or DVI but we haven't gotten that far yet! Any hope for IEEE (a' la HAVI)?

Rgathright - I appreciate your input re: HD200 (see above). I was hopeful that I might save 1 Tuner by outputing Component to 1 TV & DVI to the other, ah well. Since you have the HD200 does your Sony Remote control both TV & HD200? My current sat receiver (JVC) takes UHF and nothing but nothing else works it - lost the battle of remotes (at least 2/3) to control everything.

{Note to others w/similar ?/needs. Happened to Circuit City on 9/5-selling HD200 for $ 699 but Zenith HD520 (same unit) for $ 449 - possibly only local store, but ????}

And since we have brought up the whole component setup, IR code thing... it appears that there are quite a few of us non-GW II owners that are hanging out here and applying UMR's tweaks to our Sony sets as well. Perchance would anyone happen to have a CCF file with all the discretes and stuff for the 36HS510? I need to reprogram the Pronto for this new tv since I got rid of the RCA it replaced. I've already been to remotecentral.com and they didn't have diddly in terms of any HSxxx model. Heck, they didn't even have the XBR800 models.

Thanks,
Jeff

Regarding the Y/C delay and Avia. I've searched through every post in this thread on it, as well as anything I could find on the web, but I can't really put 1 and 1 together to get 2. I've looked at the Avia test pattern on my Sony, but can't seem to see what it is that I should be looking for to tell if I need to tweak my chroma delay. Any pointers?

Secondly, since the HD510 series don't have any of those PIC BOOST menu items, will the other tweaks in the PDF be of as much worth, i.e. MID1 DYCD vs. PIC-BOOST3 CDLY?

Thanks,
Jeff

Here is my ccf file.

Jeff,

Missing a section is not a problem, but you should look for something similar. You will want to adjust the color decoder, gray scale, levels, geometry and eliminate enhancement from your set. You should get a copy of the service manual for your set to find all of these.

You might not have a chroma delay problem. Try reading the help on Avia. The key is the chroma (color) and luma (B&W) information need to lineup properly. This should be at the 0 position on Avia.

USE THESE AT YOUR OWN RISK!!!

THESE ARE NOT FOR THE GRAND WEGA!!!

Jeff,

I have not calibrated your Sony model, but I have adjusted a few Sony CRT TVs. I believe the CRT geometry adjustments on the XBR800 include the following.

2170D-1 (Category)

VPOS- Vertical Position
VSIZ - Vertical Size
NSCO- Geometry Rotation

2170D-2 (Category)

HPOS - Horizontal Position
HSIZ - Horizontal Size
MPIN - Pin Cushion
PIN - Top Pin Cushion
PPHA - Geometry
VANG - Geometry
LANG - Geometry
VBOW - Geometry
LBOW - Geometry

2170D-4 (Category)

DF - Dynamic Focus

UMR: Thanks for all the information! I've downloaded your latest tweaks PDF. In my attempt to locate the CC20R wratten gelatin filter, I found that only Tiffen can supply them (under contract with Kodak). And, since they're emerging from chapter 11 bankruptcy, they don't have a lot of inventory. Where did you get your 6"x6" filter? Thanks for your help!

Dale

daleebob,

I got my filter from Adorama. They seem to be very difficult to get know though. I know several people who have had them on order for a while.

Hi All.
I'm undertaking a slight adventure here and would like to get some help and advise. The goal of this exercise is to get a 1:1 pixel mapping on my 50" grand wega.

For awhile, I've been using a Radeon 9500 with good success, but you know what they say about curiosity and the cat... I purchased a Matrox Parhelia 128 because they have the ability to run custom resolutions in multiples other than * (i.e. 1366x768). Running via DVI to the GWII I can get a res of 1280x720 with no problem.

I was able to get 1366x768 to show up as an option, but can't get the GWII to recognize it. In multimonitor mode, the other CRT monitor work in that res though. The Matrox software has similar options like Powerstrip has (Front Porch, Back Porch, etc). Does anyone have an idea what I should try setting these at?

Any thoughts at at would be helpful!!

Thanks

llama,

I don't believe anyone has had success trying to drive this set native. The electronics on this thing are expecting 480i, 480p, 720p or 1080i. I believe the SM tweaks will get you a better PQ than trying to drive this thing native.

UMR: It seems on some HD broadcasts, only the lower part of the screen is very sharp. The middle to upper is a little "out of focus". Does this sound like the source material, or some setting on the GWII? DVD's are fine, and PBS HD is good. It's only on the broadcasts that I believe are up-converted (4:3 aspect ratio). Thanks!

UMR: It seems on some HD broadcasts, only the lower part of the screen is very sharp. The middle to upper is a little "out of focus". Does this sound like the source material, or some setting on the GWII? DVD's are fine, and PBS HD is good. It's only on the broadcasts that I believe are up-converted (4:3 aspect ratio). Thanks!

Originally posted by daleebob
UMR: It seems on some HD broadcasts, only the lower part of the screen is very sharp. The middle to upper is a little "out of focus". Does this sound like the source material, or some setting on the GWII? DVD's are fine, and PBS HD is good. It's only on the broadcasts that I believe are up-converted (4:3 aspect ratio). Thanks!

This is not the case on my set. I would have seen this DVE on D-VHS test material for sure if it existed on mine. You might have an optical alignment problem on your set. You might want to get a service call.

There is a problem with material that is 4:3 and 480p on the DVI input. I would not use that resolution.

UMR

UMR - oops (sorry all, I hit tab by mistake)
I just spent 2 hours w/local Sat retailer (Dish). He had "retail" Charlie Chat taped (DVR'd) and got to watch the back/forth re: new Satellite sent up 8/6-7. Latest should be "on-line" ~ 10/15 at which point SuperDish, HD 811/921 should be released.
Based on your experience w/Dish and GWII, would you get either HD from Dish or continue to use your present set-up? I'm still debating the Dish vs DirectTV system for new home and GWII. Since we're "rural" we get Pegasus and most of the local agents are just that agents, not pros!

Dave

Sommer3,

I did the satellite installation myself so that was not a factor for me.:)

I believe that Dish will have more bandwidth for HDTV in the near future than DirectTV. I plan on getting the 921 once it is available. I would probably switch to DirectTV if they had a similar device available today. I primarily want the 921 for HDNet to get HD soccer and the PVR for OTA HD.

Programming and/or hardware features tends to decide the DirectTV and Dish decision.

UMR,

Thanks for the update. Has anyone seen the GWIII's yet, supposedly Expo or Great Indoors supposed to have 1st? Have you been able to look at the GWIII (WE series vs XBR950's) specs or Service Manuals (? part no.)?

Dave

directv is the sattelite choice for me due to nfl sunday ticket and the one channel in high def which is awesome and two ed channels from fox which are sharp also but not as sharp as the cbs hi def feed. dish dosnt offer sunday ticket. that was deciding point for me.

Tweeter here is showing a delivery date of Sept 24th for the non-XBR GWIII's. Who knows what will really happen though.

I was told the ship date is the 24th, which means it could still be a week before they are received.

This stuff happens for everything. Companies will always tell you end of them month.

Dear umr,

What do you think the optimal viewing distance is from a 60" Sony LCD?

I was going to get the 50XBR800 and now I am getting the 60XBR950, because there is no 50XBR950.

Thanks.

I would use this chart if you are unwilling to check it out for yourself. (http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/learningcenter/S-6oPftmxkgtg/home/tv_faq.html#viewing_chart)

Yes, check it out yourself. Some people prefer a larger screen than the chart listed.

UMR or ?

Can someone describe the use of the HD-RGB plug on GWII and other HD sets? It looks like a VGA input, but have read that it doesn't work the same way (ie is not compatible w/Computer I/O). Seems odd to use this plug and not be able to connect to computer.

Originally posted by mgoblue
Dear umr,

What do you think the optimal viewing distance is from a 60" Sony LCD?

I was going to get the 50XBR800 and now I am getting the 60XBR950, because there is no 50XBR950.

Thanks.

Originally posted by umr
I would use this chart if you are unwilling to check it out for yourself. (http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/learningcenter/S-6oPftmxkgtg/home/tv_faq.html#viewing_chart)

Thanks umr,

I have not seen that chart.

I have checked out the GWIIs but only on storeroom floors and you all keep saying it is not a great representation of the potential for these sets.

Also, I thought your expertise with these LCD sets might be a better source than the generalized chart for all TV technologies.

FYI, the new XBR950 manual recommends a distance greater than 7 feet for the 60 inch and 8 feet for the 70 inch.

umr which size is your GWII and how far do you usually sit when viewing?

Thanks.

MGoBlue

I have a 50" and I view it at about 10.5 feet.

Originally posted by umr
I have a 50" and I view it at about 10.5 feet.

Thanks!

I have the 50" and view it at about 8'. It's just right.

Interesting comparisons in case you did not see this.

Mfusick Hitachi vs. UMR GWII (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2690222&fullpage=1)

Note the smooth curves and finer lines on the GWII vs. a "perfectly" converged Hitachi RPTV.

Hitachi In Store vs. UMR GWII (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2690102&fullpage=1)

Note the uneven screen illumination.

Those comparisons just make me all the happier that I bought the GWII. But, now we have the 70" GWIII. Dang! The only thing I don't like about my set is that it's too small at 60". I really want 75" or 80". I'll hold out for the GWIV unless the GWIII turns out to be a significant upgrade to the GWII.

bertschb,

I would not expect much. The improvements available other than size are pretty much limited to contrast ratio (black levels), gray scale tracking without a filter, a more even gray scale across the field and perfectly clean 720p HD resolution. Moving some of the items to the user menu from the service menu is a plus. User menu improvements have been done in the XBR versions of the GWIII.

That's good to hear. With your tweaks I'm very happy with the GWII. Perhaps the next generation (after the newly announced GWIII) will be larger than 70". That may give me a couple more years to enjoy this set.

BTW, I don't recall reading much about you spending time hooking PC's up to the GWII but I thought I'd pass this along anyway:

Last night my son wanted to hook his PC up to the TV. I had tried my PC with an NVidia card without too much success. He has an ATI 9800 Pro. He set the screen resolution via Windows (not PowerStrip) to 800x600 and we plugged the PC into the DVI port and bang - it worked! There was quite a bit of overscan but we could still see part of the start button, system tray icons, etc. It was very usable as a game platform and we didn't change anything. When we checked the screen resolution it said 1280x720 (I think). I know it wasn't 800x600 anymore. Anyway, no PowerStrip, no unplugging all the other video cables, no selecting diffent monitors in the control panel, no changes to anything in the TV. It just worked. Now granted, it was not the perfect picture with perfect mapping that others strive for. But, if your kid wants to run the new Halo demo on your TV and they have the 9800 Pro - just plug it into the DVI port.

I thought it was pretty cool. I had to do a lot of screwing around in PowerStrip with my NVidia 4200 just to get a marginal screen resolution.

Sorry for rambling and I apologize if this is old news. I haven't been keeping up with this thread as well as I was a few months ago.

What are the original user settings of the Pro mode on the GW II? Thanks in advance.

UMR,

According to your response to Bertschb, the new GWIII (XBR Versions e.g. 950's) will feature some changes (improvements) to the User/Service Menus.

1) Do you know or have you heard whether these same changes apply to the WE Series?
2) Can these Changes be "updated" to a GWII, through a software and/or rom upgrade to the board? (obviously they would not apply to any circuitry change, but similar to computer bios updates - improvements to the basic system and controls?)

Dave

Originally posted by Sommer3
UMR,

According to your response to Bertschb, the new GWIII (XBR Versions e.g. 950's) will feature some changes (improvements) to the User/Service Menus.

1) Do you know or have you heard whether these same changes apply to the WE Series?
2) Can these Changes be "updated" to a GWII, through a software and/or rom upgrade to the board? (obviously they would not apply to any circuitry change, but similar to computer bios updates - improvements to the basic system and controls?)

Dave

1) Do not know yet.

2) I doubt it.

Originally posted by fstevens
What are the original user settings of the Pro mode on the GW II? Thanks in advance.

I believe Picture, Brightness, Color, Hue and Sharpness are all in the middle of scale. You can press the reset button and it will reset the settings unless you changed this in the service menu.

I believe color temperature default was Neutral. I don't remember if Cinemotion was on or off. DRC was set to the center of the circle which is something like 24,1.

UMR:

1- OK, we'll have to wait and see. Has anyone SEEN???

2 - Darn, might be a good suggestion to the Engineer Types!

3 - I read on another forum that the current 60XBR800 costs more & weighs more due to its Optical Glass & 1st Mirror. Does that make sense? That might explain the change to the new WE Series though I can't imagine how they could replace the lens/mirror with a less expensive product. Any thoughts?

Dave

Originally posted by Sommer3
...3 - I read on another forum that the current 60XBR800 costs more & weighs more due to its Optical Glass & 1st Mirror. Does that make sense? That might explain the change to the new WE Series though I can't imagine how they could replace the lens/mirror with a less expensive product. Any thoughts?

Dave

I don't know, but the top of my set is very heavy. I believe the screen protector material is glass on the GWII. They might have replaced it with plastic. The GWIII does have a first surface mirror. I do not know how you can make that out of plastic. I should get a look at a GWIII in a few days so we'll see.

Originally posted by bertschb
Those comparisons just make me all the happier that I bought the GWII. But, now we have the 70" GWIII. Dang! The only thing I don't like about my set is that it's too small at 60". I really want 75" or 80". I'll hold out for the GWIV unless the GWIII turns out to be a significant upgrade to the GWII.

Is there really a 70" GWIII? I haven't seen any information on it.

Interesting comparisons in case you did not see this.

Mfusick Hitachi vs. UMR GWII

Note the smooth curves and finer lines on the GWII vs. a "perfectly" converged Hitachi RPTV.

Hitachi In Store vs. UMR GWII


Is this a comparison of the Hitachi V500 vs. the Sony GWII?

I'm using my HTPC to connect to my GWII 50". I'm running 720p into the GWII. When I calibrate, using UMR's tweaks, should I use Avia in the HTPC? Does Avia do 720p or is this just a function of my video card? Do I need a special version of the Avia DVD to calibrate my setup if I'm not using a stand alone DVD player? I've tried to figure this out from the thread but am confused.

Thanks in advance.

Nils

my resolution issues... please help! i just received my new dell pc with the nvidia geforce fx5200 video card. i'm using the dvi connection to my 60xbr800 gw2.

off the bat...i'm able to see stuff at 640x480. and it maxes out at 848x480. but that's about it. this is without using powerstrip.

after playing with powerstrip for over hours...i managed to get a bunch more resolutions at 480 and 540. but that's it. i can't get over 540. i was hoping to get something like 1280x720 or something along those lines. won't let me. max of 540. of course...i'm able to go up to 1920x540. which looks wacky.

does this mean my brand new 128mb nvidia card doesn't support resolutions above 540? that would suck.

help a brother out...

I can't help my self but this thread might help. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=189974

Originally posted by jwholm
Interesting comparisons in case you did not see this.

...Is this a comparison of the Hitachi V500 vs. the Sony GWII?

The resolution chart is a 51" SWX20B. The other is an Hitachi SWX of unknown model number. These are from Mfusick's gallery.

imajazz,

I believe some people have had trouble with NVidia.


Try this link:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=1893485

I was watching my set yesterday when I noticed something I don't remember seeing before. I have a 60 GWII for the last 9 months and was enjoying it thoroughly until now. I have started to see a pink vertical line or a shade, mostly noticeable on white background, over certain parts of the screen. Just watching the NFL today on Fox, the whole Fox horizontal score card had a a little bit of pink shading on it. I have not done UMR's tweaks but have done Avia calibration. After seeing it on TV, I tried my AVIA disc and see many settings do show the verticle pink shade over there also, especially black and white tests patterns. Even after eliminating COLOR from the menu setting, I still was not able to get rid of the problem.


Is this time for me to call the tech? Sorry if this has been addressed before but any suggestion on getting rid of this problem would be appreciated.

Regards,

makhannj,

You can try a few things. Try lowering your contrast to see if it is too high. Try watching the set stretched instead of 4:3 to reduce the heat from the black bars. Call Sony and have a tech check it out.

Uneven gray scale across the screen is a problem with LCD.

Originally posted by makhannj
I was watching my set yesterday when I noticed something I don't remember seeing before. I have a 60 GWII for the last 9 months and was enjoying it thoroughly until now. I have started to see a pink vertical line or a shade, mostly noticeable on white background, over certain parts of the screen. Just watching the NFL today on Fox, the whole Fox horizontal score card had a a little bit of pink shading on it. I have not done UMR's tweaks but have done Avia calibration. After seeing it on TV, I tried my AVIA disc and see many settings do show the verticle pink shade over there also, especially black and white tests patterns. Even after eliminating COLOR from the menu setting, I still was not able to get rid of the problem.


Is this time for me to call the tech? Sorry if this has been addressed before but any suggestion on getting rid of this problem would be appreciated.

Regards,

I seem to remember having a problem like this some time ago.

Have you tried changing the Image Revision setting in the user menus?

I believe mine was set to auto for the longest time and I didn't notice any problems, then one day I noticed some ghosting and tried changing this setting and it worked.

I was also seeing this problem with the pink shading as well as slight ghosting on my 60XBR800. I just changed Image Revision from "Auto" to "2" and the problem is gone. Thanks for the tip.

Thanks, mnb and UMR for your suggestions. I also changed the Image Revision from "auto" to "2" and it took care of it.

I did something very interesting to my GWII, I'm just not sure what. After spending some time with the GWIII (which I found quite improved over the GWII) I went back to UMR's tweaks to see if I could squeeze any additional improvement from my set using Avia and my trusty grey photo card. I made a few minor changes to SPIC (14 over 13) and and to th the red's but very minor. I was in the service menu for a while and did adjust many of the user settings but ended up (at least as far as I can tell) saving only these two minor changes.

When I exited out of the service menu and restarted the tv what I had before me was a different set. The grey (blue - uncalibrated) film which permeates darker images was gone. The tv was lighting bright - crushing all whites and requiring me to turn the picture (contrast) down substantially. I then had to go back in and recalibrate the set as I had some red push. Needless to say after making the changes and cutting back the picture setting to about 65% and brightness to about 50% my tv did not crush whites (almost but you can just still see the moving lines on Avia). Increasing the picture to about 70% crushes whites (not terribly) but makes the image blazing contrasty far unlike any GWII I have ever seen. The PRO and Mild settings have been effected. Vivid appears normal (for vivid) and standard seems only slightly enhanced.

I have checked to make sure I did not change any gamma settings but they are all as shipped from the factory. I have not had time to pull out the service manual to determine what setting I must have changed but I would be interested if anyone else has seen this. If I carefully the set picture and brightness my GWII appears to have contrast resembling a traditional rptv while still maintaining the color accuracy this set is known for. Let me know your thoughts. It is going to take me a while to compare the settings in the service manual to those for my set.

Just to be clear this is a drastic improvement in the set if you are careful with the picture and brightness settings!

Thanx

Ben

Hey BBerns22,

Where oh where did you get to "Play with a GWIII"? Inquiring minds and Sony fanatics want to Know!

Dave

Tweeter

Drats:

I think the nearest Tweeter is give or take 2000 miles. Course I live in the boonies (well not quite Alaska, but...)!

Did you see the 60 or 42/50WE610? I'm looking for a deal on 60" and am still considering the current XBR800. You said much improved, since I can't see it in person, what is your impression? Where are the improvements? The one thing we (my wife and I ) noticed was the reflection off of the screen (glass) on the current unit; its going into a large room with lots of potential ambient light to one side (though most viewing will be at night). Do you feel that it has the same or better controls as the current XBR units? Finally, trying to get a feel for the possible Tweaks - a la UMR - GWII pretty well detailed. Were you able to play enough to check for Service/ User Menus and see any differences?

Thanks in advance for any input?

Dave

Originally posted by Sommer3
...Were you able to play enough to check for Service/ User Menus and see any differences?

Thanks in advance for any input?

Dave

I went into the service menu and it is VERY different from my GWII. You might be able to find the same parameters, but they will not be in the same chips. I did not see a single chip that was setup the same along with the projector electronics. The MID chip was the only thing that looked similar, but it was not the same either.

The user menu is similar with a few additional adjustments. These include Mild, DRC Modes, Noise Reduction, Block Noise Smoother, Vertical Center (zoom modes), Vertical Size (zoom modes), Game Picture Adjust (Left/Right Positioning) and a High Altitude mode.

I don't believe the user menu settings are all saved on a per input basis.

Just to clear I asking about my GWII. The reason I went back into my GWII was due to the great brightness I saw on the GWIII at tweeter. I did not look at the GWIII service menu.

umr or anyone that can help-

i've done most of the umr tweaks. i can't stress how much the quality of the tv has improved. all inputs as well. cable tv, ps2, dvd, htpc dvi, etc.

one thing i've noticed. the quality and clarity has improved. but i still feel that the tv is not vibrant. the color seems muted. from the other gw2 pictures...they look much more lively and vibrant (almost 3d like).

how would i accomplish this? i bought the digital video essentials dvd from amazon. should receive it soon. will that help to calibrate the picture color?

basically...since the tweaks...pq has improved exponentially. but color is still not vibrant enough (at least for my tastes).

ideas?

UMR:

Thanks for the input re: GWIII. Given your obvious knowledge and expertise, did you find GWIII "untweaked" better/worse than typical GWII?

Did they have both models to compare on the floor?

Could you tell what might have been left out of GWIII vs GWII? Again base price minus (-) $ 1000 + various discounts that I've seen advertised, indicates that Sony "removed" something. Question is what? I suppose it could be that the "engineering" for generation 3 has become more sophisticated (more LSIC's/ASIC's) and difference somewhere - possibly XBR status, just where?

Finally you noted significant difference w/Service Menu. Was it still "tweak-able"? Every once in a while the engineer types think they know best and set the parameters so you can't adjust them at all, hope that is not the case.

Thanks,

Dave

PS - Are you going to try to repeat your hurculean efforts with GWIII?

Worse than my GWII. I can't comment on the typical one.

They had a 50" GWII and a 42" GWIII.

The remote and cabinet look cheaper to me. I would guess the screen/mirror might be cheaper based on the weight difference.

I did not attempt to change the SM setttings in the GWIII since I am not familiar with the chip sets in those sets.

I do not currently plan on getting a GWIII to tweak so I would not expect a herculean effort from me. I guess if someone close by gets one I might help out.

Dear umr,

I saw a 30" Sony xbr LCD with a Floating Screen and it looked awesome. Do you know if the 60" and 70" xbr 950s will have the Floating Screen.

Thanks.

MGoBlue

UMR

I was wondering if you have ever used a DVI to component cable. I ran out of component inputs on my 50" GWII and would like to have a direct feed from my tv to my Motorola 5100 HDTV cable box. The only HD input I have left on my set is the DVI and the 5100 only has a component output. I found this cable on the Internet and was wondering if you think it may work with the GWII. Here is a link http://store.yahoo.com/cavinsinc/42-83404-001.html

Thanks for all your help your tweeks have greatly improved my PQ.

I just purchased a DTV system and the picture on my 60XBR800 looks pretty bad, specifically, little liquid lines around lettering, etc.... sports and local are the worst. I am now using S-Video, which helped a little bit. The picture looks great using DVD so I'm sure it's the Sat feed and XBR settings. I've been looking around and have downloaded the umr tweaks. I'm not real technical and much of what I'm seeing here and other places is a little over my head so I haven't done the tweaks yet, want to make sure I know what I'm doing before I start. What is the recommended test/tune product out there, I've seen "digital video essentials", "Avia? and something from Sound & Vision. I need to improve this picture or my wife is going to kill me!
Any help for a newbie is appreciated

I have the GWII50xbr and Comcast will be dropping off the hi-def box (Motorola 5100 series) next week.

Question: Right now, I run the Comcast cable into my Monster power conditioner and then to the processor and then component cables to the tv. Should I skip the power conditioner and/or the processor and go directly to the tv?

I am assuming the DVI port on the Motorola cable box is not enabled. If it is, I would run DVi directly to the TV from the cable box.

I am just curious if anyone has tried both ways and if you see a difference in picture quality.

Early on in this thread there was a link to download the GWII service manual. That link is no longer working. Is there any other place to download it?

Thanks.

umr has not posted in a few days. Somebody better send out a search party. :eek:

Originally posted by Feddie
umr has not posted in a few days. Somebody better send out a search party. :eek:

MAYBE he's enjoying his GWII!

:)

David

Originally posted by faceoff
MAYBE he's enjoying his GWII!

:)

David

Is he allowed to do that? :p

Originally posted by Feddie
Is he allowed to do that? :p

Since he didn't ask me, I assumed that he asked you. That's what happens when you assume.

David

Originally posted by manticore56
I just purchased a DTV system and the picture on my 60XBR800 looks pretty bad, specifically, little liquid lines around lettering, etc.... sports and local are the worst. I am now using S-Video, which helped a little bit. The picture looks great using DVD so I'm sure it's the Sat feed and XBR settings. I've been looking around and have downloaded the umr tweaks. I'm not real technical and much of what I'm seeing here and other places is a little over my head so I haven't done the tweaks yet, want to make sure I know what I'm doing before I start. What is the recommended test/tune product out there, I've seen "digital video essentials", "Avia? and something from Sound & Vision. I need to improve this picture or my wife is going to kill me!
Any help for a newbie is appreciated

The "UMR tweaks" do make satellite look better. I suggest always using the MILD picture mode for satellite until/unless you make the tweaks. Some have used the THX calibration screens on some DVD's to make adjustments. Personally, I recommend getting a DVD like Avia or Digital Video Essentials to use as tool with UMR's procedures.

In the end, standard definition video is not going to look at good as it did on an analog, direct view set. Those old sets were designed to show that type of video at it's best. These digital sets are designed to show off DVD and HD. That's the nature of the beast.

i've done most of the umr tweaks. i can't stress how much the quality of the tv has improved. all inputs as well. cable tv, ps2, dvd, htpc dvi, etc.

one thing i've noticed. the quality and clarity has improved. but i still feel that the tv is not vibrant. the color seems muted. from the other gw2 pictures...they look much more lively and vibrant (almost 3d like).

how would i accomplish this? i bought the digital video essentials dvd from amazon. just received it. will that help to calibrate the picture color?

basically...since the tweaks...pq has improved exponentially. but color is still not vibrant enough (at least for my tastes). i assume the tv has potential to be vibrant.

ideas?

Could someone post their user menu default settings for a 50" GWII. I can not seem to find mine and would like to compare the difference between umr's changes and the original default settings.

Originally posted by RobbinMerritt
The "UMR tweaks" do make satellite look better. I suggest always using the MILD picture mode for satellite until/unless you make the tweaks. Some have used the THX calibration screens on some DVD's to make adjustments. Personally, I recommend getting a DVD like Avia or Digital Video Essentials to use as tool with UMR's procedures.

In the end, standard definition video is not going to look at good as it did on an analog, direct view set. Those old sets were designed to show that type of video at it's best. These digital sets are designed to show off DVD and HD. That's the nature of the beast.

Thanks RM, I'll be getting the DVE and using umr's tweaks here shortly, (hope I don't totally hose myself and have to get an ISF guy in) we'll see what happens!

Originally posted by manticore56
(hope I don't totally hose myself and have to get an ISF guy in)

This has been said time and time again -- so I'll repeat again. Besure to write down all your original settings.

The version of UMR's document I used didn't include a procedure for setting the individual colors unless you had a color analyzer. There are some detailed, UMR approved procedures for doing this "manually" posted in this forum. I may have referenced them earlier in this thread. He may have updated since then, too.

UMR: I've got a color filter on order (hope it arrives someday) and was hoping you could tell me what settings were adjusted after installation. I've gone thu all your tweaks using Avia, and am hoping to improve the black levels with the color wratten filter. Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

Dale

Originally posted by daleebob
UMR: I've got a color filter on order (hope it arrives someday) and was hoping you could tell me what settings were adjusted after installation. I've gone thu all your tweaks using Avia, and am hoping to improve the black levels with the color wratten filter. Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

Dale

The primary change is gray scale. You must recalibrate the gray scale.

UMR: Well, the filter is still on order (and has been since 9/7). Are there other types of filters you'd recommend? Thanks.

Dale

Originally posted by daleebob
UMR: Well, the filter is still on order (and has been since 9/7). Are there other types of filters you'd recommend? Thanks.

Dale

I am not aware of any others that will work as well. They need to be about 6"x6" and flexible. There are some glass ones available that are much more expensive and require disassembling the TV.

Wow. Is the lens really that big in diameter?

I'd like to do this with my Hitachi one day in the future. I wouldn't have the courage to even look into it, if it weren't for guys like UMR!

Originally posted by Ten 99
Wow. Is the lens really that big in diameter?
...

Yes. I tried a 4x4 and it was too small in width.

I have a question and hopefully someone with a service manual can help me figure out what I hosed up.

First a little background on my setup. I have the 60XBR800 and I am feeding it from a Denon AVR-3803. The 3803 has the ability to up-sample composite and S-Video inputs to it's component outputs. So I am only using input 5 on my TV and switching my Satellite receiver (S-Video), VCR (S-Video), and DVD Player (Component) through the 3803. I was able to choose the desired picture format for "wide" and "4:3" under the screen options in the user menu and things worked as expected - When I switched to DVD on my receiver the TV would switch to Full mode, when I switched to satellite or VCR it would switch to Wide Zoom mode.

Now the problem...

I started to apply some of the service menu tweaks last night but I had trouble getting into the service menu - I was trying to hit all the keys at once rather than in sequence. Obviously this did not work, then stupid me I figure out the sequence and everything is great, I now have the service menu. I do the first few tweaks, save them off and shut down. When I power the TV back up everything is fine as far as the picture. I switch to my DVD input and I notice that the screen format is set to set to Wide Zoom. I go to flip the "Wide" setting to Full and notice that both Wide and 4:3 are set to Wide Zoom. I figure maybe it just got reset from entering the service menu and flip it to Full for Wide content. I then flip back to the satellite and guess what - it's still in Full mode. I go back to the options and verify that 4:3 is set to Wide Zoom and it is, I change it and nothing happens. I change the setting for Wide content and the screen reformats...

Basically I have lost the ability to have the automatic switching between screen formats.

While doing the tweaks I changed NOTHING on my receiver. And I was very careful not to tweak any settings not listed in the guide from umr in fact I only tweaked PIC-BOOST2 (OSP, PKNG), 2170P-3(SYSM), and MID5 in the order suggested by the guide. I set these for input 5 at 480i which are the correct settings for what's coming of my receiver and saved them.

I have a hunch that while I was screwing around trying to get into the service menu that I hit some other key combo that altered the sets behavior but that may be paranoia.

Can anyone offer any insight into why this would have stopped working correctly and all signals are being treated as Wide?

When I switched to DVD on my receiver the TV would switch to Full mode, when I switched to satellite or VCR it would switch to Wide Zoom mode.

I was not aware this was a feature. The set normally switches from Normal to Full. I believe there are some settings in the user menu that deal with these modes you might look there.

Were you adjusting MID5 in a Zoom mode?

Originally posted by umr
I was not aware this was a feature. The set normally switches from Normal to Full. I believe there are some settings in the user menu that deal with these modes you might look there.

Were you adjusting MID5 in a Zoom mode?

I'm not exactly sure it IS a "feature" but I do know it worked. I played with it some more after posting - basically reset everything to default, reset my DVD player as well. I setup the modes to be Wide - Full, and 4:3 - Wide Zoom. I then popped into the service menu so I could see the exact input source and mode the set was in. I put in LOTR and the set stayed in Full. I then switched to satellite and after a bit of flickering/blanking the set popped up in Wide Zoom mode - great! I switched back to LOTR, another flicker/blank and I was back in Full mode. This was exactly how it worked before. I made sure my DVD player was set for 16:9 output, and also set it's OSD for 16:9. I had had it configured that way originally but it seemed like the GWII set was "hung" getting the 16:9 flag regardless of input source. Perhaps resetting it and the DVD player cleared it up, or perhaps switching through sources on the receiver while playing something I KNEW was 16:9 cleared it up. Either way it seems to be working as it did before.

On a different note I am seeing the downside to switching all my signals through the receiver - Many of the tweaks make DVD's look much improved but when viewing Satellite (non-HD) with the same settings the images look soft or washed out at times. This seems odd since most of the tweaks have greatly improved sharpness/detail on DVD content. The upside is that satellite compression artifacts appear reduced but it's at the cost of a slightly blurry looking picture.

Any suggestions?

Originally posted by chirstius
...
On a different note I am seeing the downside to switching all my signals through the receiver - Many of the tweaks make DVD's look much improved but when viewing Satellite (non-HD) with the same settings the images look soft or washed out at times. This seems odd since most of the tweaks have greatly improved sharpness/detail on DVD content. The upside is that satellite compression artifacts appear reduced but it's at the cost of a slightly blurry looking picture.

Any suggestions?

Don't use your receiver to switch signals and tweak the inputs separately.

This has been driving me nuts for a while and I am wondering if anyone has found a work around.

User menu adjustments such as Color and Hue seem practically impossible when doing things like adjusting the color decoder (blue panel on). That transparent box around the adjustment bar affects the test pattern and makes adjustment VERY difficult.

I have gone so far as using MID1 COM to temporarly move the picture high as possible as to avoid the overlap but this doesn't seem to buy me much.

Is anyone else running into this. Am I doing something wrong?

Thanks!!

kkelley,

It is difficult. If you have DVE you do not need to turn the panels off. The filters with DVE are good enough to do the adjustments for the color decoder.

My bulb died after exactly 1768 hours of use. The picture had been showing signs of darkening for a few days. Sony replaced the bulb free of charge as the tv was less than a year old. I suspect the constant on / off I was doing, going in & out of the service menu and turning the tv on/off played a contributing role.

The picture is significantly brighter than it ever was with the old bulb and I also suspect that my original bulb was not 100% from the factory. The set is far brighter than even Had the new GWIII's. I have to set the contrast at 3/4 and black level at slightly less than half (unless I want to be blinded).

As indicated in a previous post I believe I accidental changed a service menu setting a month or so ago that caused the increase in brightness. But to date I have not bothered to try to figure out what the item was.The new bulb has also seemed to remedy the white crush I was experiencing earlier. Everyone who has seen the set with the new bulb has been astonished at the overall improvement in PQ brightness, color saturation and overall contrast. I am once again pleased with the set and have no desire to perform further tweaking.

Originally posted by bberns22
My bulb died after exactly 1768 hours of use. The picture had been showing signs of darkening for a few days. Sony replaced the bulb free of charge as the tv was less than a year old. I suspect the constant on / off I was doing, going in & out of the service menu and turning the tv on/off played a contributing role.
Correct, the reason they only give approx. lamp life hours is because power cycling figures into the equation. My hunch is they figure two on/off cycles per day. I think the lamp is rated for 6000 hrs. of 'normal' use. Myself, I rarely put the TV on/off more than once.

Using the Service Menu, is it necessary to cycle the power so many times? Or is that because, too often, you didn't like the changes, and kept clearing them?

I was not getting results I liked. The bulb has been weak for a long time and looking back, I was trying to compensate for the darker than normal picture. Although, out of the box the picture was never this bright, nor have I seen a GWII in on display anywhere that has the brightness of my set. I still believe I may have changed a setting in the service menu unknowingly.

Originally posted by QZ1
[B]...Using the Service Menu, is it necessary to cycle the power so many times? ...B]

No.

UMR, I have never edited the Service Menu; so starting with the easiest, what order should I follow?
And, I wonder, if there are any tweaks I should avoid?
I know, you say to write the original settings down, but I can't believe it is that foolproof.

QZ1,

I would do the tweaks that interest you. The risks are very low (not zero) and the manual gives a suggested implementation order. This assumes you record the original values and don't write to EEPROM any changes you are not certain of. You can always pull the plug and restore the saved values if you don't save your changes with MUTE - ENTER.

I am aware of very few who have had any negative effects and they were all able to reverse it in the end. The worst was a fellow who tried to copy someone else's spreadsheet values and did not record his original ones.

You always have the option of living with your UM adjusted PQ. It is up to you in the end.

The easiest are the ones that do not require any special calibration (SYSM, GAMM, OSP, PKNG, VGAM). The most difficult thing to adjust is the gray scale (cuts and drives).

Do you have Avia or DVE? You do not need to turn off any panels to set the color decoder with DVE. The filters supplied with that disk are plenty good enough.

Well my 10CC & 20CC 6" wratten filters have been shipped (it only took 3 months on back order). It will be interesting to see if this tweak is as good as UMR says. I bet it will!

bberns22,

Where did you order your filters from? I've avoided placing the order because none of them could ever tell me when they would have them in stock.

I know UMR gave very detailed instructions on the physical install of the filter, how are you planning on calibrating the set after the filter is installed? Redo the tweak list, recalibrating the gray scale and white balance?

Last question =) How did you decide on the 10CC and 20CC (red I assume) filters? UMR used a filter sample kit and mentioned something about maxing out one of the 3 panels, but I was never exactly sure what he meant by that.

Thanks for any help

Adoroma.

I have had other filters in the set but they were too red. The set could not compensate (the install takes 5 minutes and is easy). I have purchased several 10 & 20 cc red filters and will try different combinations.

Calibration is done as indicated by UMR using AVIA. It's very easy to drop the panels in the service menu in order to get the cgrey scale correct. I will also correct the color. The whole process should not take more than 20 minutes or so. I have done this dozens of times on the GWII.

umr...

I just bought a kf-50xbr800 last Saturday from Ultimate Electronics in Southlake, TX for a nicely discounted price. It was the last unit (floor model). I was told it was on the floor less than 3 weeks (the 60" was the unit normally set out on the floor). ... and the HD picture looked SUPERFANTASTIC!

I was planning on buying the new KF-50WE610 but after seeing the older XBR, I felt the XBR has a better picture, not to mention that I like the looks much better on the XBR.

Was able to take it home on our minivan and plug it right in. The picture is 100 times better than my old 51" Pioneer RPTV! I still do not have an HD tuner, but I am very pleased with the quality of the 480p signal out of my Toshiba DVD player.

In looking for information on the GWII, I have come upon this forum and am excited about all the info there is on it about the set. I do have a couple of quick questions.

1. What do you recommend for a HD Tuner? Should I go with the DirecTV offer or should I buy a SONY SAT200 or wait for the SAT-300?

2. Though I am not a technician, I have put together Heathkit receivers (oops that really dates me), and am not afraid to go into the service menu. From everything I have read, your tweaks on the GEII are a must. But, how do I find the latest copy of your "recommended modifications"?

I do have AVIA, Video Essentials and Sound & Vision Home Theater Setup DVDs. Not sure what is DVE).

Thanks in advance for your help!

Macanudo

Hey Macanudo,

DVE is an abbreviation for "Digital Video Essentials". It's the updated version of the disc you have that is more geared towards more modern displays whereas the old one was almost exclusively for CRT televisions. It's worth buying for like $20. Comes with better filters than Avia uses and has some GREAT demo scenes to check your picture with, including the Space Shuttle stuff that you may have seen running at Best Buy some years ago.

Hope that helps,
Jeff


Originally posted by Macanudo

I do have AVIA, Video Essentials and Sound & Vision Home Theater Setup DVDs. Not sure what is DVE).

Thanks in advance for your help!

Macanudo

I am saddened by the news of umr's departure. I unfortunately was one day too late. My first post was 10/31 and his last was 10/30! I just hope somehow I can find a copy of his famous tweaks for the KF-50XBR800, which I just bought a few days ago on 10/25..

From what I have read, he was an extraordinary contributor to this forum.

I have had my GWII for almost a year now. I have done all the UMR tweaks except adding the color correcting filter.

I have spent many hours tweaking this set. I also recently put the set through it's paces with the new DVE.

What strikes me is that almost every single setting calibrates to UMR's EXACT results - the color decoder, gray scale, everything. I got the impression that some of the "calibrated" results should very from set to set...

The ONLY setting that didn't calibrate to UMR's results was Brightness. Mine ended up roughly at 50%. I think the tick is over the "l".

Of the others that went through all of this, did you end up similar results?

I could have saved myself a bunch of effort and just copied the results..

UMR, sorry to see you go! Thanks to you, I have absolutely NO buyers remorse about this purchase.

Where did UMR go????

What is the last version that was posted of the GWII Tweeks?

I'm very sorry to see UMR go. Anyone who can take this technical of a subject and present it in a manner that non-TV gurus can use and not be totally lost is amazing.

I would hope that UMR would reconsider and at least post to this thread.

Either way, thank you so much for your Herculean efforts UMR. If you don't come back, you will be missed.

Well: I have had the opportunity to test 10CC,20CC, and 30CC wratten filters with my GWII. UMR is correct about the dramatic effect, although I have found that my 60" performs best with a 10CC. The 20CC was a bit to dark for my taste and the set required a high green level on the color decoder. 20CC was at the limit of the color decoder to correct.

In my set up the slight purple tinge that was occasionally noticeable at low IRE is gone completely. Overall black level is greatly improved (see UMR's comments he says it all).

Based on my experience I would suggest testing both 10CC & 20CC filters. I suspect personal taste and unit to unit variation will dictate which is optimum.

The filter thing is interesting. I have the Panny PT40LC12 which
has no color temperature adjust at all. I bought a color temperature
correction filter (glass ... not cheap, $85) to correct it. I had tried
plastic ones (cheap) but they caused color fringes due to the
monochromatic green line from the lamp. The major problem with this
is that you have to decide in advance what filter to buy. If you
have a good spectroradiometer (which I do) that you can use at home
(which I unfortunately can't) it would be easy.

Doug McDonald

Does anyone know if and when DirecTV might get a piece of hardware similar to the PVR 921 for DishNetwork.

I've been waiting a while for an HD capable DVR. This new PVR seems perfect... but I have DirecTV and a Zenith HD receiver that does very little.

Anyone else out there who has DirecTV and HD?

From what I have read, the DirecTV-Tivo HD DVR has now been announced for 2 Qtr 2004!

Waiting patiently... Macanudo

Originally posted by Macanudo
From what I have read, the DirecTV-Tivo HD DVR has now been announced for 2 Qtr 2004!
Actually, it could be Q1 or Q2, because now they are saying March or April '04.

After a week with my red filter I have decide to remove it. Yes I like the contrast improvement but I was never able to get the color temp right. Perhaps it's my set but there was always a rosy tint to the pic that I found annoying. Following UMRs method, and following it exactly yielded a way to red color temp. I spent hours trying to get it go away but no combination of settings proved satisfactory. Even though my contrast is now lower, the better color temp from 20 ire and up, and the brighter picture are preferable to me.

I know it is time for GWIII, but am still enjoying the GWII.

Could somone please PM me or send a link for the UMR's GWII tweak file. I really miss UMR on the forums.

Thanks

comast is also planning on coming out with the Motorola 6208 STB that will have built in 80GB HDTV PVR built in. Supposedly will be included in the price of digital cable subscription

Hi,

I have two issues with my 50" GWII.

1. While watching any dvd, (on full - widescreen) the entire picture is zoomed in just a little bit. I can't see the edges of the picture. I usually use the zoom option and zoom out one step, so there is a little bit of black on each side of the screen. At least I can see what is on the very edges of the picture. BUT, I'd like to change this somehow so that the default setting fills up the screen but doesn't zoom in more than it should. (Btw, is this called overscan?) This leads to my second issue.

2. When zooming out one step, I notice the ride side of the picture is tilted. The bottom right side is closer to the edge of the screen than the top, maybe by 1/2 inch. I believe the bottom is also uneven but less so. This really bugs me. I zoom out because of the problem above, but then I notice this. Also, I wonder, if I just watch the dvd how it defaults to filling up the screen, I don't notice this obviously, but I bet it is still there, distorting the picture. Can I correct the tilt/uneven problem, and also the problem above?

thanks guys for the help.
Bill

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DirkPitt
[B]Hi,
. At least I can see what is on the very edges of the picture. BUT, I'd like to change this somehow so that the default setting fills up the screen but doesn't zoom in more than it should. (Btw, is this called overscan?)

I'm experiencing just the opposite, especially when viewing the PBS HD Demo. I noticed one photo of a GW11 screen that showed the full icon in the lower right corner and the full title of the scene in the lower left corner of the screen. Mine are shortened from the outer edges and I can't find in any menu either on the GW11 or the Avia DVD how to adjust for this. Anyone else experiencing this and how have you resolved it ? Is this something that Sony after sale service should do while under warranty ? Thanks.

Originally posted by DirkPitt
While watching any dvd, (on full - widescreen) the entire picture is zoomed in just a little bit. I can't see the edges of the picture. I usually use the zoom option and zoom out one step, so there is a little bit of black on each side of the screen. At least I can see what is on the very edges of the picture. BUT, I'd like to change this somehow so that the default setting fills up the screen but doesn't zoom in more than it should. (Btw, is this called overscan?)
I don't have DVD or HD, yet, but I noticed when they have letterboxed SD programs, and I use the TV's zoom, it cuts off the bottom of the the channel logo, and it shouldn't, (unless the WB doesn't use 16:9 letterboxing); I think this is overscan.

Anybody know if the the screen size can be reduced in the service menu? I will read UMR's GWII guide in the meantime.

EDIT: Using Zoom function w/NBC letterboxing is also causing logo to be cut off. It would be disappointing if HD 16:9 is like this.

I recall reading that some letterboxing is actually 16:10, which would cause this problem, but since they are showing these shows in 16:9 HD, I don't think this is the case here.

Originally posted by QZ1
I don't have DVD or HD, yet, but I noticed when they have letterboxed SD programs, and I use the TV's zoom, it cuts off the bottom of the the channel logo, and it shouldn't, (unless the WB doesn't use 16:9 letterboxing); I think this is overscan.

Anybody know if the the screen size can be reduced in the service menu? I will read UMR's GWII guide in the meantime.

EDIT: Using Zoom function w/NBC letterboxing is also causing logo to be cut off. It would be disappointing if HD 16:9 is like this.



You can adjust the screen up or down while it's on ZOOM or ZOOM WIDE in the user menu unnder screen adjustments. I always adjust mine so the logo is not seen. I don't think you miss much with the bottom cut off. I hate having heads cut off in close ups.


When watching a 16:9 show while in 4:3 format such as "ER" and then zooming it. It will have to overscan the top & bottom so the sides can be filled in. If you were watching it in HD I don't thing this happens. It should auto switch to full like a 16:9 enhansed DVD does with very little overscan

Originally posted by Couch Patato
You can adjust the screen up or down while it's on ZOOM or ZOOM WIDE in the user menu unnder screen adjustments. I always adjust mine so the logo is not seen. I don't think you miss much with the bottom cut off. I hate having heads cut off in close ups.
I hope that setting doesn't have to be adjusted everytime. I just wish there was a way to adjust the amount of zooming, as I would have it zoom in a bit less, by default, if there was such a setting.

When watching a 16:9 show while in 4:3 format such as "ER" and then zooming it. It will have to overscan the top & bottom so the sides can be filled in.
Silly, if you ask me, what would be wrong w/ not filling the screen completely and not cutting off any of the screen.
If you were watching it in HD I don't thing this happens. It should auto switch to full like a 16:9 enhansed DVD does with very little overscan
I hope so.

Originally posted by Couch Patato
You can adjust the screen up or down while it's on ZOOM or ZOOM WIDE in the user menu unnder screen adjustments. I always adjust mine so the logo is not seen. I don't think you miss much with the bottom cut off. I hate having heads cut off in close ups.


When watching a 16:9 show while in 4:3 format such as "ER" and then zooming it. It will have to overscan the top & bottom so the sides can be filled in. If you were watching it in HD I don't thing this happens. It should auto switch to full like a 16:9 enhansed DVD does with very little overscan

I have a GWIII and noticed the same thing when watching Enterprise and The West Wing under zoom. But what I don't understand is that if these shows are letterboxed to 1.78:1, which is the same ratio as the tv, why would it have to overscan the top and the bottom to fill the sides? Shoudn't it fit perfectly within the screen with no space on either side?

Originally posted by Emissary
I have a GWIII and noticed the same thing when watching Enterprise and The West Wing under zoom. But what I don't understand is that if these shows are letterboxed to 1.78:1, which is the same ratio as the tv, why would it have to overscan the top and the bottom to fill the sides? Shoudn't it fit perfectly within the screen with no space on either side?

Because the 16:9 format of the program is within the 4:3 format. You are zooming in the entire 4:3 format. "zoom" is setup for just 4:3. Wide zoom is setup for true 1.78:1 or 1.85:1(enhansed for 16:9) that you get from DVD. I would think HDTV is the sameway.

It would be nice to have levels of zoom within the zoom mode.

Can someone forward a copy of the faq and tweaks to me? Unfortunately, I have lost it with a crashed harddrive. I went on this forum to get it again and find it gone. Too bad UMR left.

-A

agolovit@yahoo.com

UMR is not gone...

He was last sited in the GWIII thread, posting tweaks for it!

Originally posted by bberns22
After a week with my red filter I have decide to remove it. Yes I like the contrast improvement but I was never able to get the color temp right. Perhaps it's my set but there was always a rosy tint to the pic that I found annoying. Following UMRs method, and following it exactly yielded a way to red color temp. I spent hours trying to get it go away but no combination of settings proved satisfactory. Even though my contrast is now lower, the better color temp from 20 ire and up, and the brighter picture are preferable to me.

I'm finding the same thing as well after a couple of days with the my filter. I suspect that it's almost impossible to correct the colour decoder without the use of a light meter. Also, the reduction in light output bothers me. It's not an insignificant reduction. There is a definite improvement in black levels and the blue tinge is gone from 20 IRE down, but I can't seem to get the colour right.

I installed the filter a few weeks ago then had a gentleman certified by the ISF recalibrate the gray-scale, color decoder, gamma, and a couple of other things. Four hours and $400 later, the result is spectacular.

Don't bother installing the filter if you don't plan on doing the rest.

The improvement in black level is dramatic. I remember watching "Carnivale" on HBO prior to the filter. It is a particularly dark show and it always looked washed-out. With the filter, the show looks great--you can actually see what's going on.

The ISF tech noted that some of the newer front projectors by Sony come with a red filter. Perhaps they've learned something as well.

BTW, after I installed the filter, I couldn't help but wonder if a lower-wattage projector bulb would have produced a similar effect on black level.

What filter did you install, in which set and how?

Originally posted by motorcop
...BTW, after I installed the filter, I couldn't help but wonder if a lower-wattage projector bulb would have produced a similar effect on black level.

Yes, but it would not have increased the contrast ratio.

motorcop

Welcome to GWIII or greater performance in a GWII.

Originally posted by umr
What filter did you install, in which set and how?
I'm not sure if this is directed at me, but I installed the Kodak CC20R filter following your instructions. I also attempted to redo the gray scale and colour decoder visually as per your document, but after applying the settings to all the inputs, the colour still had a red tinge.

Nevertheless, even if I got the colour right I wouldn't have been satisfied with the reduced light output. My set is right next to a set of ceiling-to-floor windows.

dickydoo,

A drop in light output is likely (10% in my case), but may be partially offset by pushing green and blue panels further. It sounds like you and another previous poster are not getting your gray scale and/or color decoder correct. You should not see a red tinge to the whole image once you are done. That is a shame the filter can yield stellar results.

UMR, about a month ago I noticed the image revision was off on my set. I know for a fact since a year ago it was perfect. I've always had it on 3.

Auto, 2 & 3 all look the same now. Since your prob. the most familiar with the SM. Is there any adjustments in the SM for image revision? Something has changed and the slight red band is driving me nuts now.

Couch Potato,

Here is an excerpt from my latest tweak manual for the GWII on the subject.

Originally posted by umr
dickydoo,

A drop in light output is likely (10% in my case), but may be partially offset by pushing green and blue panels further. It sounds like you and another previous poster are not getting your gray scale and/or color decoder correct. You should not see a red tinge to the whole image once you are done. That is a shame the filter can yield stellar results.

Following your instructions for setting the grayscale, it doesn't say anything about adjusting RDRV (red gain). I'd assume thats I'd want to do that to offset the red that the filter adds. Are the values for GDRV and BDRV supposed to end up higher than before to compensate for that? In my case, they ended up being lower than the original settings following your instructions.

Originally posted by umr
Couch Potato,

Here is an excerpt from my latest tweak manual for the GWII on the subject.


Thank you very much Sir! I guess I should have gone through the last tweeks PDF since I have it. Dahhhh. Oh well It's in the data base now. All fixed and looking good again. All's it took was one click up. From 30 to 31. I just wonder what caused the change. By the way I checked my lamp hours & it's at 5117 hours.

Originally posted by dickydoo
Following your instructions for setting the grayscale, it doesn't say anything about adjusting RDRV (red gain). I'd assume thats I'd want to do that to offset the red that the filter adds. Are the values for GDRV and BDRV supposed to end up higher than before to compensate for that? In my case, they ended up being lower than the original settings following your instructions.

If you run out of green you must decrease RDRV. The goal is to get the screen to look yellow when the blue is off not to just use the green adjustment only. You should not end up with blue and red values lower than they were originally unless you never adjusted gray scale before. The instructions are simplified so it is less confusing, but if you run out of green you must cut red. It seemed obvious to me.

I have discussed this before, but here goes. You should be trying to run the limiting panel at 100 IRE up to the point where it runs out of juice. To do this you need to determine which is limiting. The contrast pattern from THX Optimizer is good for this. You must increase contrast or the SPIC adjustment while viewing the test pattern through the AVIA filters. The color which limits out first is the one you should maximize the drive and cuts for. The other colors are then added to achieve D65. This is interactive with contrast and brightness of course.

You might want to skip this whole thing if this does not make sense to you.

Thank umr, that clarifies things a bit. It seemed that green was the limiting panel and I ended up almost maxing that and reducing the red panel some from my original settings. The light output is a lot better and the colour balance seems to have improved. Again without a light meter and a photographic gray card it's very hard to adjust color and gray scale. I'll leave it in for a while more and see if I like it.

I have owned the 50" GWII for about a year now. I'm happy with it but would be interested in the latest Tweaks PDF file. I fully understand UMR's frustration but would hate to miss out on all the work that's been done on this set.

I would appreciate if someone can email me the latest PDF.

Thanks

Seeking Latest GWII Tweak Files and Service Manual - Please

Can someone please forward me a copy of the latest version of the GWII tweaks/faq pdf file and service manual? I would appreciate it. Unfortunately, I lost my electronic copies when my hard disk crashed yesterday. I tried searching the forum to get it again and could not find it. I had applied the tweaks several months ago and wanted to check to see if there were any new recommended improvements. I also noticed that the Sony site where I originally downloaded the service manual is now password protected.

Any assistance would be appreciated.

Thanks
acf@bellatlantic.net

Originally posted by umr
What filter did you install, in which set and how?

Sorry for the delay in reply UMR. I installed the CC 20R filter per your directions in the 60-inch GWII. It was a straightforward and simple installation.

BTW, I had ordered the filter from Adorama and had to wait two months for them to get in in stock. Could this filter thing be sweeping the nation? ;)

Could someone explain to me how we check the Lamp Hours on the GWII?

Sorry for the double post.. but I am also seeeking hte latest UMR Tweak Document..

Purchased a 60XBR800 floor model over the holiday season at a very good price, way below cost. Picture quality is very good. I applied the UMR tweaks to remove the enhancements in the pro mode (recorded original settings of course). While experimenting with the black levels I found that increasing the GAMM value (9 or 10) provided a picture with a better contrast and also setting the picture to "warm" provided much better "blacks" and accurate skin tones. If I used cool or neutral settings the blacks tend to have a blueish hue.

Originally posted by BusaDave
I would appreciate if someone can email me the latest PDF.

Thanks

You can find it on this page. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3195956#post3195956

Originally posted by Couch Patato
You can find it on this page.

Thanks!

I hope to get around to working on this in the next few days. I found that going through the settings again in Pro mode wit the Avia DVD helped my picture quality quite a bit. Who would have thought?

I honestly thought these settings were just individual user setting memories. I hadn't a clue they used different internal calibrations!

According to UMRs recommendation for the GAMM (umr tweak ver 5.0) the value should be set to 0 to improve picture contrast. I'm finding that increasing the GAMM level to 8 or 9 improves picture contrast by increasing the intensity of the bright picture areas thus giving a better contrast effect. If I set it to zero the picture appears to lose contrast an appear a bit washed out. Anybody have a similar experience here?

Originally posted by hawaii351
...If I set it to zero the picture appears to lose contrast an appear a bit washed out. Anybody have a similar experience here?

GAMM 0 is the correct value for a gamma of 2.2. You need to recalibrate the picture and brightness levels to get it correct. It should not look washed out.

umr, are there other settings that must be set in conjunction with the GAMM level=0? I set my GAMM level back to 0 and readjusted the picture and brightness levels with DVE however when I watch a dark source like Gladiator the contrast level continue to looked washed out. While in service mode if I increase the GAMM levels in real time while watching Gladiator the contrast level improves. Increasing GAMM appears to increase the intensity of the bright image sources thus giving the impression of better contrast and blacker blacks. What exactly is GAMM doing and why does it increase the bright images sources as you increase its value? I too appreciate all the work and information you've brought to this forum!

hawaii351,

Changing GAMM alters gamma. VGAM also alters gamma. There are probably settings that will result in higher gamma values. A value of 2.2 to 2.4 is desirable. I find values higher than 2.2 loose details in blacks. You can choose any settings you like. It is your TV not mine.

thanks umr, yep ultimately it comes down to each individual perception of their "ideal" picture quality. However I appreciate the information and experience you bring to this forum.

Have tweeks been posted for the GWIII model? I have a KF50we610 and have seen references to a tweek thread for the GWIII but have been unable to find thus far...

thanks

The GWIII tweaks are here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=331875

UMR, you are a scholar and a gentleman.

I found a great deal on a floor model 50xbr800 last weekend and talked them down even a little more. However I was almost ready to return it for poor performance until I found this thread and tried the tweaks from the 5.0 document.

DVD was pretty good on my cheap 35$ special with component cables and my dish 508 was nearly unbearable through the svid cable. I have not noticed much difference in the DVD, but the sat is much better than before the tweaks.

The sat only has composite and svid out which I have hooked to video1 on the tv. To get a test pattern I took the svid cable from the sat and moved it to the dvd player with the THX pattern (and unplugged the component from the dvd because it was causing some interference). What I noticed was that with the svid cable I could not see the blackest bar on the pattern no matter how I moved the Picture and Brightness, but the same bar was easily viewable through the component cables. Is this just life with a lesser quality cable or do you think I have a bad cable? Would I be better off with composite coming from the sat?

I may try going back to composite and trying again tonight. I will also look for the avia dvd at the local stores to get the additional patterns and filters.

I'd be very interested in seeing the differences from the 5.1 tweaks document. I'm also very interested in adding a filter. I'm fairly mechanically inclined and a computer geek so am not too worried about destroying the tv.

Thanks for your help.

hi gang,

i hope this isnt a dead thread. i recently purchased a used 50xbr800 and applied most of umr's tweaks (except the color filter- too risky for a newb like me). seems like most of the tweaks improved the PQ of the set. the only thing that troubles me is the PQ of my dvd player. i bought a new 5 disc sony dvd player and have it in my video 5 input. while watching some dvds, it seems that the picture is not as focused or sharp as i would expect it to be. the hd feeds look tremendous, but dvd leaves a lot to be desired. is it just me? i know 1080i feeds should obviously look better than a 480p feed, but i just think that the dvd PQ can be better than it is. i have tha avia disk and used it, but the settings were VERy close to umr's settings, so i just kept umr's settings in place.

please help me out with any suggestions as to what i can do to improve my dvd PQ!

btw, i am using monster video 3 component cables for my dvd player.

thanks in advance.

zcar,

The black bar is a DVD player issue and not a cable problem. Composite is what I use for satellite.

spye22,

I doubt it is the cables. I would check the frequency sweep on Avia. You might also want to get DVE and look at a chroma frequency sweep. These should look nearly perfect. I would get a different player if they don't. Sony is not known for making the best player on the market.

I would also check the Y/C delay. You can tweak this to some extent in the service menu if this is flawed. Many Sony decks have this problem in progressive. You might need to run it in interlaced to get around this.

Have you done the SYSM tweak?

umr,

thanks for the quick response. i will try your suggestions, however, it is too late for me to return the player. which settings in the SM are for the y/c delay? also, i assume you are saying that i should just run the dvd player w/ progressive scan off? if thats the case, i probably just wasted money on a pro scan player (i had a non-pro scan sony before this purchase).

in any event, i will let you know if the pq improves.

as always, thank you for your time and effort. your suggestions and tips have made me a very happy gwii owner.

also, i know your color filter tweaks are very detailed, but im too afraid to physically alter my set. forgive me if this has been asked, but will the color correction filter improve my pq dramatically? if so, how much am i looking at spending for all the necessary products/equipment for the filter tweak?

yes, i did do the sysm tweak.

Here is what it did to my set. This photo is a fairly accurate representation.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2182181&fullpage=1