spye22,

I don't remember off the top of my head what the tweaks are for chroma delay, but they are in the document. I would try interlaced on the Sony it will probably work better than progressive. You could always ebay it. I did that with mine.

spye22,

I believe the filter is about $60 and you have everything else you would need unless you want to get the light meter to get the gray scale closer. That would add $160.

Originally posted by umr
Here is what it did to my set. This photo is a fairly accurate representation.


That first picture is a great representation of my set -- good but the blacks are still very gray. To counteract this, I've been struggling to get as much ambient light in the room as possible without getting reflections.

My set was a floor model with a lot of hours so the store agreed to replace my lamp at no charge. Once the tech comes out to do that, I'm definitely going to try out the filter!

One other quick question -- Is the CC20R a pretty safe bet, or should I be sure to test with a Color Print Filter Kit? I've had a hard time finding a kit online and have already been outbid on ebay a couple times.

Thanks!

zcar,

I got my kit off ebay as well. It took a few tries. The filter seems to take a VERY long time to get. Most people have waited months to get one.

You can judge what filter you need by looking at a blank screen with no input (lowest level black). You need to be able to judge the color of black you are seeing. Once you do you can determine the filter type if you are correct. Most of the GWII's I have seen have cyan blacks. A few have not.

Color of black - Filter Type

Gray blacks - neutral density filter (filters all colors equally and may not yield much benefit)
Red blacks - cyan filter (filters red)
Blue blacks - yellow filter (filters blue)
Green blacks - magenta filter (filters green)
Cyan blacks - red filter (filters blue & green)
Yellow blacks - blue filter (filters red & green)
Magenta blacks - green filter (filters blue & red)

I would not go beyond a CC20 filter of any type because the screen will probably get pretty dark. Some people think the CC20 is too dark. My set is a little darker with it than it would be without. It depends on what panel saturates first as to how dark your set will be.

The Color Print Filter Kit takes all doubt away if you temporarily recalibrate the gray scale with it you can look through it and get an accurate picture of what the colors will look like. However, it will distort the picture unlike the photographic quality filter.

spye22,

Don't give up working on your dvd pq. My original progressive scan player left a lot to be desired on my 50xbr. I changed players and now the pq is real close to hd quality. Hang in there.

zcar,

You could also purchase a very small polyester CC20R for very little cash and see how it looks by looking through it. This would not be as flexible as the kit, but it would tell you how the CC20R would look.

Thanks, UMR.

I was just thinking the exact same thing while doing a search on ebay!

Well, being the impatient person that I can sometimes be, I went ahead and ordered a CC20R to get the ball rolling. I found it for 58$ with tax and shipping, but the site did say it was on back-order and would not charge until it has shipped.

I think I'll look for a cheap test filter that URM suggested on ebay, which I can probably get home and test still with plenty of time to cancel my order on the real filter if need be.

I am trying to connect my new HTPC to my GWII and I am having two major problems. I have tried to follow UMRs GWII document to set this up and I believe I have followed it perfectly. BTW, thanks UMR. Your document is a great resource and made great improvements to my picture quality.

I am connecting using a ATI9000 video card with the DVI connection. I have set powerstrip (1280x720) and adjusted the MID1 service menu items to correct for overscan. At this point everything works great.

The first problem that I am having is the MID1 overscan adjustments are affecting all inputs not just the DVI. According to the document these should be independent for each input. This now means I must put up with some garbage around the edges of the screen while watching other inputs.

The second problem is after leaving the TV off for a period of time (computer stays on) the TV shows a black screen on the DVI input. A reboot of the computer seems to be the only way to fix the problem. Not sure of the exact length of time but it does not happen if I turn off and immediately back on.

Has anyone else experienced these problems? Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

-Randy

umr (et al),

I brought one of these babies home from the Sony Outlet to check it out for 30 days. Thanks to umr and other contributors to these threads, I have the set looking much improved.

I have spent many hours (read "days") combing these threads for info, and I just typed a long post and accidentally lost it, so I'll be short.

I have the uneven color problem. Right is blueish, left is greenish, except for the very left which is blueish again. Black and white movies are the worst; I would not be able to watch them. Otherwise, the TV is great. Like-new, low hrs on lamp, only one bad pixel (only noticeable close up).

Can this be serviced? I may be able to exchange it if the outlet gets another, but I'm afraid another unit could be worse.

After researching this forum, I think I'd be happier with the GWII XBR than the GWIII 50"we610. I'd like to try to hang on to this GWII, or exchange for same. I'm ready to do the CC20R filter tweak (made some calls today)!

I am looking forward to sharing some of my findings. I want to be able to contribute as thanks for all the info provided by umr and others.

Please advise. Thanks!

nealgrof,

This can be serviceable, but it is difficult to fix. I would contact Sony if you want to try and fix it.

Just read the discussion on blacks and wanted to share this: got "Manhunter" DVD (from Anchor Bay, produced in 2000, NOT the "Director's Cut" or "Director's extended edition" or whatever) and was stunned by the PQ, particularly the night scenes in the ending. I don't know what magic the DVD producers employ when they "tweak" these transfers, but this one is special. And a great movie to boot.

I have noted since acquiring my 60XBR800 that there is an amazing variation in source material out there--whether it be DVDs or SD or HD programming--and I need sometimes to look at DVDs like this one to reassert that my set is stunningly good, and sometimes *too* good at revealing source defects!

I recommend to anyone here that you get real cozy with one of your discs, so after tweaking this-or-that setting, you can look at a DVD you are familiar with and verify your tweak worked (or didn't screw anything up!).

umr,

Thanks. I made quite a few phone calls yesterday and actually got an answer (of sorts). The woman I spoke to at my local Sony service dispatch called one of the technicians in the field. She described my color shift problem and he said that it sounds like a problem with the optic block (sp?). Of course, he wouldn't know for sure until he looks at it. It would be about 3 weeks before the tech could get out to me, and then he'd have to order the part and come back to make the repair. The dispatcher said the tech's recommendation was to exchange the set for another one.

The Sony Outlet is being great about it. They'll take the set back and exchange it for another 50XBR800, or they'll extend my return period if I want to try and see if Sony can fix it (6-7 weeks, perhaps).

I must say that I'm leaning towards the exchange. I'm guessing that these TVs are going to get harder and harder to come by. The outlet is holding one for me now; who knows if they'll have one in 6 weeks if the "repair" doesn't work? I would just cross my fingers and hope that a "new" one wouldn't be worse, and possibly in some other way.

Well, I just got a call from the Sony In-Home Service dispatcher I spoke with yesterday. She spoke to the senior tech, and he doesn't think the problem is the optic block. He says they'd have to see the television. Not too promising...

Guys, please don't kill me. Where is UMR's GWII tweak guide? I want to go and do my fathers' 60 XBR and I can't seem to find the guide anywhere in the thread. Isn't it usually the first post like in the GWIII tweak section? Sorry in advance but I must be missing something.

Thanks,

Josh.

MadChemst,

I removed it to prevent people from trying to use it on GWIII's. I believe it has been reposted somewhere in here though.

You could always Paypal me a few grand and I would be glad to send you a copy.:D

UMR,

I will definitely paypal you some money once I get my finances in order. Every penny I've made until halfway into the year is spoken for already. Could you PLEASE send me a link to it or the guide itself. I'm using it to work on this HTPC thing in the GWIII DVI thread. The same general 1:1 issues exist for the GWII and I was just trying to help him out. If you could it'd be greatly appreciated. This would get my dad's TV running great and provide some insight into the work we've been doing in the DVI thread.

Thank you much in advance,



Josh.

Looks like a good deal on a used 60" GWII on that big auction site. number 3081663710 .

Hi,

I just applied the tweaks from the last version of UMR's tweak PDF file.

I had originally completed the tweaks back in December 2002 when these sets were new. At that time I was very pleased with the results. I find now with the newer tweaks that my HDTV set up is not as good on the PRO setting. In fact on most HDTV material I prefer the VIVID setting which previously I had disliked because it really did look like "torch" mode. To a lesser extent this applies also to 480p DVD input.

Now my PRO setting looks washed out. I may have made a mistake in carrying out the tweaks. Before I go back and reset all the parameters to my previous levels, can anyone suggest any particular parameter that I can experiment with to improve this problem?

I do think that my 480i inputs look better since I applied the newer tweaks.

Thanks in advance

This is just a suggestion so please don't take it otherwise!

I was just hoping that UMR would reconsider posting his tweeks file. Many of us want to be sure we have the latest and as "take_heed"'s experience shows, maybe the age of the set needs to be considered.

I understand UMR's reluctance to post the file due to folks wanting to use it on a GWIII. However, I have at least 6 different Haynes car manuals (don't know why I don't get rid of the manual when I get rid of the car) and would never use my Civic manual on a Ford Explorer or even a year not covered by the Civic manual.

I think adding experiences and corrections to "take_heed" issues would be great.

Just my .02. Oh, and thanks for coming back UMR.

LaVike,

The age of the set or more accurately stated, the age of your set's bulb is most definitely a factor in the PQ. As more hours are placed on the sets bulb, the gray-scale response of the set may be biased toward red or blue depending on the bulb and whichever panel is closer to being maxed out. See UMR tweaks 5.0. Send me a PM with an e-mail address if you do not have 5.0.

Niesman

Here is the latest set. Please don't use these on a GWIII.

UMR,
Thank you very much!

LaVike

This has probably been asked before but how to find out the number of hours you have put on a GW II and what is the life of the lamp? If the age of the bulb is a factor in the PQ should you replace it at a certain number of hours. Thanks.

Originally posted by fstevens
This has probably been asked before but how to find out the number of hours you have put on a GW II and what is the life of the lamp? If the age of the bulb is a factor in the PQ should you replace it at a certain number of hours. Thanks.

You can check the hours in the service menu. Just scroll through the categories it is very obvious.

I would replace the bulb when it burns out or if the light output drops below where you can tolerate it. You might want to have one on hand. I have one on order and it is quoted at 60 days before delivery.

The recent post of tweaks doc "v5.1" has me a little confused. It LOOKS the same as my doc "v5.0" and both are dated 9/6/2003. Anyone know why the version nos. are different?

Originally posted by Laserfan
The recent post of tweaks doc "v5.1" has me a little confused. It LOOKS the same as my doc "v5.0" and both are dated 9/6/2003. Anyone know why the version nos. are different?

Yes, because they are different.:D

Fellow GWII owners, ...I am a very happy 60XBR800 owner for the past one year. Just recently upgraded to Hi def package via my cable company and realized what I was missing. I just have a question, what resolution do you normally set on your box for hi- def programming (720p or 1080i)?

Originally posted by makhannj
... what resolution do you normally set on your box for hi- def programming (720p or 1080i)?

Both. 1080i for 1080i and 720p for 720p.

Originally posted by makhannj
...what resolution do you normally set on your box for hi- def programming (720p or 1080i)? Being the lazy sort that I am, I leave my STB on 1080i and everything looks fine to me. I thought I was anal until I joined this forum!!! :D

My STB (Hughes HTL-HD) has an "EZ DVI" setting which will auto-switch depending on the source, but I channel-surf enuf that I don't like the extra delay involved.

Re: tweak docs 5.0 and 5.1 both dated 9/6/2003, umr you said:

Yes, because they are different.:D

Y'all want to enlighten us or do we hafta go through each-and-every page to find the change(s)?

Originally posted by Laserfan
...Y'all want to enlighten us or do we hafta go through each-and-every page to find the change(s)?

I am not sure I remember, but I believe they were:

- DRC Clarity from 100 to 1 after experimenting with SYSM

- MID6 CUT adjustment to adjust Zoom mode geometry ( this drove me nuts until I fixed it on mine)

UMR,

If you are still monitoring this thread please enlighten us as to the settings that you are using for MID6 CUT. I am also maddened by the zoom geometry. But I must tell you, I have not had much luck with changing the geometry settings in the SM. I have employed all of your tweaks (except filter, still waiting and now going on two months for delivery) with excellent results. The geometry changes do not seem to have any effect. My 4:3 screen is slightly biased to the left and changes in MID2 DRC appear to not take. Any suggestions?

niesman

You need to use test patterns like those found on VE to adjust the Zoom modes.

MID2 is for 480i 4:3. MID3 is for 480p 4:3 (VDHP, VDHS, VDVE, VDVS). There is also a centering adjustment in MID1 (MDHP, MDHS) for 4:3 windows.

UMR,

Thanks for the information. I apologize for my tardy response. I have a newborn to deal with so my Sony has taken a back seat. I am planning to do some tweaking this weekend. B&H just sent me a notice that my filter is shipping!

niesman

niesman,

Good Luck with the tweaking and the filter.

UMR,

I have been enjoying my GWII for almost a year now. I hope you are ok. I am going to order my light bulb to have one just in case. Anyway, I have been enjoying and watching DVDs and HD channels in the GWII and I am so delighted about it.

I am fine. Enjoying mine as well. I just received a spare from Sony myself. It took 60 days to arrive.

Hi all

My set is still going strong. How are you doing UMR? Glad to see you on this thread again so I will start to post also. Who is the manufacture of the bulb and is Sony the only place you can get it?

Hey All,

I finally got my filter last week. I took about 2 months to come in. I have only tweaked a couple settings in the normal menu so far and it has already made a great difference -- so much so that I have been to lazy to go into the service menu and do the real tweaks again.

UMR, thanks for the tip!

Originally posted by Ed Van Belkom
Hi all

My set is still going strong. How are you doing UMR? Glad to see you on this thread again so I will start to post also. Who is the manufacture of the bulb and is Sony the only place you can get it?

I am fine.

I don't know who makes it, but I would guess Philips or OSRAM.

You might be able to get it from a large dealer as well. I didn't try anybody else.

Originally posted by zcar
Hey All,

I finally got my filter last week. I took about 2 months to come in. I have only tweaked a couple settings in the normal menu so far and it has already made a great difference -- so much so that I have been to lazy to go into the service menu and do the real tweaks again.

UMR, thanks for the tip!

No problem. I think you'll find your set performs better than the WE versions once you get that filter tweaked set setup right.

UMR,

I did the filter tweak and was impressed by the increased contrast, especially during the Soprano's and Law&Order (both dark HD shows). My wife however remarked that the picture seemed to be not as bright as before. I silently thought the same ( more than the 10% I expected) and then it happened! The bulb went! (2210 hrs) Thankfully I have a replacement. On first viewing with the new bulb the picture looked excellent, but I feel that I should re-tweak the gray scale and decoder since the present settings were for the almost dead bulb.

niesman

PS. I am going to complain to Sony about the <300hrs on the bulb. I do not expect much from them.

I understand the Bulb is warrantied for the first year under the Sony Warranty

niesman,

I am glad you are happy. I think everyone who has taken the effort has been pleased. It would not hurt to revist the gray scale. I would just take a look at some test patterns first to see if it is OK.

Ok, I've had my set for 1 1/2 years now and have decided to go ahead and get a back-up bulb.

I just spoke with Sound Track's parts supplier (Ultimate something) and they say I need the entire bulb assembly and want $242.31...

Does anyone have the proper part number I need to source and a suggestion as to where I can get the bulb at the best price?

Much appreciated.

kkelley,

XL-2000U -- $200 from Sony, but you will wait a while. Mine took 2 months.

http://servicesales.sel.sony.com/web/index.jsp

Thanks UMR!

I've decided to be more safe than sorry...

Just hope my bulb holds out a couple more months!

Originally posted by umr

It would not hurt to revist the gray scale. I would just take a look at some test patterns first to see if it is OK.

UMR,

I am out of town for a week and then I will have a chance to check the gray scale. I have to tell you, that after a few more days of viewing, the PQ is so outstanding I am in no rush to make any adjustments. Also, after having seen a GWIII 70" XBR in a show room the other day I am extremely pleased That I have a tweaked GWII.

niesman

niesman,

Please make sure you post what you "re-tweak". I have done everything except the filter but am now thinking of doing that. It will be interesting to see what changes.

Originally posted by umr
...XL-2000U -- $200 from Sony, but you will wait a while. Mine took 2 months... This is bizarre, isn't it.

If you order a lamp to have on-hand, the clock starts ticking prematurely on the warranty for it. But if you wait to buy a lamp until AFTER yours fails, then you might have to wait 2 months!!!?!!

Methinks that something is rotten in the state of Denmark!

Yea, that kind of scares me. I don't really have to money to buy one now or anytime soon but if I wait untill to bulb goes I'm screwed for 2 months. I guess I'm going to have to bite the bullet and get one anyway. The set's getting close to 7000 hours if not there already.

For what it's worth, I just ordered from Sony.

They don't have an eta (60 days is probably about right) but won't bill your card until it ships...

I really don't understand Sony's approach to this replacement lamp. Can you imagine if your car service department had to wait for an essential, emphasise "essential", part for 60 days. Motorists just wouldn't stand for it, and if it was just one specific car that was affected then its sales figures would no doubt plummet. I notice that some LCD front projector manufacturers supply a replacement lamp with their new models.

Originally posted by kkelley
niesman,

Please make sure you post what you "re-tweak". I have done everything except the filter but am now thinking of doing that. It will be interesting to see what changes.

KKelley,

After installing the filter,I basically follow UMRs guide (5.1), the software package "smartavtweaks" [url]http://www.smartavtweaks.com/ (http://www.smartavtweaks.com/)[/URL , AVIA and a AEMC light meter to track the gray scale from 0 to 100 IRE in 10 IRE steps. I adjust the cut and drives (2170P-1), then brightness and contrast, the cuts and drives again followed by the color decoder (2170P-4) and then on last iteration, of Bright/contrast and color decoder. I have found that a third go at the cuts and drives is not necessary. This may seem like a lot but it is well worth the time and the software really helps out!

niesman

Originally posted by jgvp
I really don't understand Sony's approach to this replacement lamp. ...


I doubt Sony wants to be in this situation. I am guessing that the lamp manufacturers like Philips or OSRAM may be the problem. The number of devices produced today that use these has increased dramatically in the last few years. It may just be an issue of manufacturing capacity.

I have also heard that repair shops can get one much faster (days) if it is necessary. Delivering a spare lamp in 60 days seems reasonable if you can get one quickly to someone who needs it.

The SMART III looks great. However, If the budget doesn't support the investment, would the filter tweak still be worthwile if I used the manual grey scale approach?

thx

Originally posted by kkelley
The SMART III looks great. However, If the budget doesn't support the investment, would the filter tweak still be worthwile if I used the manual grey scale approach?

thx

Yes.

UMR,

Using DVE and the guide of course, every single one of my settings calibrated to the ones you listed. given that, I just copied your settings for 2170P-1 and the results were fantastic.

Using that logic, if it is not too much trouble, would you be willing to share your post CC filter settings?

Thanks!

Originally posted by kkelley
UMR,

Using DVE and the guide of course, every single one of my settings calibrated to the ones you listed. given that, I just copied your settings for 2170P-1 and the results were fantastic.

Using that logic, if it is not too much trouble, would you be willing to share your post CC filter settings?

Thanks!

When I get a chance I will. DVE has a very useful test pattern for visually checking gray scale tracking. The GWII will not look perfect, but you can use it to check your TV.

Thanks UMR.

What it boils down to is I don't necessarily trust my eyes when dealing with some of the subjective parts of manually adjusting Gray scale.

I guess that is what tools like Smart III are for but I do need to watch the budget...

Originally posted by umr
I doubt ......... I am guessing ....... may be the problem........ It may just be............
I have also heard ...............

Doesn't sound reassuring to me, I'm afraid. Sony are aware of how many GW2s they produced and that within a minimum of 12 months or so each one would require a replacement lamp. Shouldn't present any logistical problem to any lamp manufacturer brought into the picture.

Delivering a spare lamp in 60 days seems reasonable if you can get one quickly to someone who needs it.

Two months without the benefit of your highly expensive HDTV would hardly qualify as being "reasonable" in my experience. The supply and demand scenario will only serve to aid the service people to inflate the cost and no doubt the customers who are in dire straits will fall easy victim to the ransom. I'll know better tonight when a serviceman, referred by the dealer I purchased from, gets back to me with a price. Fortunately, I'm not in the "over the barrel" mode, just trying to be prepared for the inevitable. But I certainly don't approve of the situation where the responses are:- Sony = 60 days from ordering; Dealer = none in stock, but "call this guy he should have plenty". So I'm prepared for the worst. List price or more obviously will prevail.

The SMART III looks great. However, If the budget doesn't support the investment, would the filter tweak still be worthwile if I used the manual grey scale approach?

KKelley,

I agree with UMR, you can eyeball the grey scale and still obtain excellent PQ. I however, am an analytical chemist by profession, so I was just not satisfied with eyeballing, and professional equipment would not pass the "wife, and you spent what on what! test" so smartav and a light meter was a good compromise.

niesman

Originally posted by umr
I doubt ......... I am guessing ....... may be the problem........ It may just be............
I have also heard ...............

Delivering a spare lamp in 60 days seems reasonable if you can get one quickly to someone who needs it.

Doesn't sound reassuring to me, I'm afraid. Sony are aware of how many GW2s they produced and that within a minimum of 12 months or so each one would require a replacement lamp. Shouldn't present any logistical problem to any lamp manufacturer brought into the picture.


Two months without the benefit of your highly expensive HDTV would hardly qualify as being "reasonable" in my experience. The supply and demand scenario will only serve to aid the service people to inflate the cost and no doubt the customers who are in dire straits will fall easy victim to the ransom. I'll know better tonight when a serviceman, referred by the dealer I purchased from, gets back to me with a price. Fortunately, I'm not in the "over the barrel" mode, just trying to be prepared for the inevitable. But I certainly don't approve of the situation where the responses are:- Sony = 60 days from ordering; Dealer = none in stock, but "call this guy he should have plenty". So I'm prepared for the worst. List price or more obviously will prevail.

NB: Re-posted because UMR took umbrage (PM) with my slip of including a remark of mine in with his quotes.

Originally posted by niesman
UMR,

and then it happened! The bulb went! (2210 hrs) Thankfully I have a replacement.

How do you know how many hours are on it?

Originally posted by XBRSteve
How do you know how many hours are on it?

XBRSteve,

During my last tweak session (one week before the bulb died) I checked the Hrs on the bulb in the service menu and it was 2180 hrs. The 2210 was a round up from that number( figure 4-5 hrs a day of viewing for that week). I forget the page title in the SM but it is near the very end. The page gives the temp and the hrs. My understanding is that it does not reset after a bulb replacement. Next time I go in to the SM I will note the page and post.

niesman

Originally posted by niesman
... My understanding is that it does not reset after a bulb replacement. Next time I go in to the SM I will note the page and post.

niesman

I am almost positive it can be reset in the SM. When mine fails I'll post how to do it.

Originally posted by jgvp
....Shouldn't present any logistical problem to any lamp manufacturer brought into the picture. ...

Here is a quote from Philips last quarterly report:

http://www.investor.philips.com/reports/04_QR1_i/downloads/R_QR1_04.pdf

Capacity for innovative products (UHP, Xenon) to be expanded.

Manufacturers today do not tend to add capacity until demand is already present. This is usually evident in extended delivery times. Seems to me it could be a lamp manufacturer issue at this time. I believe the GWII uses a Philips bulb.

Here is a revised version of the GWII tweaks file including my settings with the CC20R. They are on the last two pages.

Originally posted by umr
Here is a quote from Philips last quarterly report:

http://www.investor.philips.com/reports/04_QR1_i/downloads/R_QR1_04.pdf
Manufacturers today do not tend to add capacity until demand is already present. This is usually evident in extended delivery times. Seems to me it could be a lamp manufacturer issue at this time. I believe the GWII uses a Philips bulb.

The demand for Philips would have already been established by Sony in its projected production figures for the GWII. For each of the lamps for the new GWIIs there would also be a requirement for a replacement lamp. For these lamps not to be readily available when required, falls more at the doorstep of Sony than at Philips. After all, Philips no doubt would have preferred to have run both requirements in the same production run for economic reasons. The only obstacle to that approach would have entailed the warehousing aspect for the replacement lamps. This would have presented more of a problem to Sony than to Philips. To lay the blame for the extended delivery times on the manufacturer is tantamount to a mother claiming that everyone else is out of step but her son.

Incidentally, I did hear from the serviceman and he does in fact have a XL2000U in stock at a price of $500Cdn. Apparently it was available last year, when it would be seldom required, at a price of $299Cdn., but Sony saw fit to raise the price as demand for it grew. The price for the replacement lamp for the GWIII model remains at $299Cdn.....for now at least.

UMR,

Thanks for posting the updated tweaks file!

I guess its time to start sourcing the CC20R...

Originally posted by kkelley
UMR,

Thanks for posting the updated tweaks file!

I guess its time to start sourcing the CC20R...

Good luck, It will take at least 2 months!

niesman

Good luck, It will take at least 2 months!

Yep, it took mine exactly 2 months. Best to order it and forget about it, then when it comes it will be a nice little surprise gift to yourself.

Hey UMR, I see we keep you busy here. I have had my GWII for over a year and used your tweaks from the beginning. Looks great.

My current question is related to the new HD-TIVO. I don't know if you have gone down the path, but I have found that the HD PQ on this unit it's as sharp as the Sony HD200.

Just wondering if you or anybody has done any extra tweaks with the HD-TIVO hooked up to get possible a better picture?

Maybe it doesn't matter related to your tweaks versus the HD-TIVO picture, but thought I would check.

Thanks for your past effects and future ones :)

david(dallas),

I have not used an HD-TiVo, but the TV adjustments should not change unless it outputs different signal levels. Glad to here the PQ is very good.

Hey guys,

I just posted this on the Comcast 5100/6200 set-top box thread but wanted to try over here as well. Any ideas? Could there be something going on with the GWII?

===========

Just connected DVI -- SD works but no HD


I have the 5100 with Firmware 7.07 connected to a Sony GWII. I worked with a Comcast CSR last night and she walked me through updating my firmware - but to no avail. BTW, Component still works great.

I have experimented with turning 4:3 override on and off. When it's off I don't even get SD channels.

Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks in advance!

I will have to order this lamp on Monday as I am afraid it will die on me. Umr I have VOOM and VOOM turned on the HDCP flag through input 7 (DVI). Well, the GWII accepted it and it did not experience a problem. I am currently using DVI for their HD receiver.

Is it true that when the light bulb is about to fail the screen becomes darker? Is that true?

Originally posted by motjes2
...Is it true that when the light bulb is about to fail the screen becomes darker? Is that true?

That appears to be normal behavior.

Originally posted by umr
That appears to be normal behavior.

I was afraid of that. I will have to put that order on Monday and hope for the best.

Originally posted by motjes2
I was afraid of that. I will have to put that order on Monday and hope for the best.

How many hours are you up to?

How many folks have had to replace their lamps on this TV and how many hours did you have when it failed?

Mine hasn't failed but I ordered a backup lamp last week. My TV has 2,200 hours.

Originally posted by umr
How many hours are you up to?

3414

I did not realize that I was watching so much TV.

where did you order your spare bulb from bertschb?

Originally posted by Infliktor
where did you order your spare bulb from bertschb?

Direct from Sony.

I have started to see a green shadow that is offset to the left on my 50xbr800. Any ideas?

Originally posted by sushifishman
I have started to see a green shadow that is offset to the left on my 50xbr800. Any ideas?

Sounds like Image Revision. Try the user menu adjustment. Download the tweaks file and use the service menu one if that does not work.

Thanks UMR. I did the tweaks about 8 months ago. Do I need to do again? I haven't done this in so long.

It is particulary noticable when I am in the service menu and the green letters have a offset green shadow. This is image revision?

So I should go to the User menu first and adjust image revision. Then go to the service menu?

Thanks for all your help!

Originally posted by sushifishman
Thanks UMR. I did the tweaks about 8 months ago. Do I need to do again? I haven't done this in so long.

It is particulary noticable when I am in the service menu and the green letters have a offset green shadow. This is image revision?

So I should go to the User menu first and adjust image revision. Then go to the service menu?

Thanks for all your help!

That is what I said. Many of us have seen this setting change with time.

Where can I find the latest version of the tweaks file? I've looked at the first few pages of the thread and it looks like it is gone.:confused:

Originally posted by Big Mike
Where can I find the latest version of the tweaks file? I've looked at the first few pages of the thread and it looks like it is gone.:confused:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3770895#post3770895

Got it. Thank you!

Mike

I finally did the tweaks again after installing the filter -- Looking good! For those of you on the fence, it is definitely worth the effort and money. What a great tip!

All -

Finally had gotten my filter as well and was not happy with the initial results after tweaking -- definately saw too much of a pinkish color in everything.

Then connected my Bravo D1 DVD player via Component 1080i and recalibrated (I use component for my DirecTV HD Tivo) and have to say I am now very happy with the results. Blacks and contrast are dramatically better.

Brightness was definately knocked down a little more than I expected -- but still worth it!!!!

Aaron

All,

Sorry if this is has been asked and answered elsewhere. Is there a way to tell how many hours my set has been turned on? Service Menu, etc? How?

Thanks,

mdm_boulder

Go to service menu and scroll down until you hit the page where it is located.

Just FYI, for all who want to put in a cc20R filter, the adorama website has it for the cheapest that I have seen. I just ordered mine and waiting with baited breadth to see the improvement in the pq. Also ordered a spare bulb, but don't expect that to come anytime soon.

Just FYI, for all who want to put in a cc20R filter, the adorama website has it for the cheapest that I have seen....

That's where I got mine too. Took about 60 days.

I've noticed when looking through this thread that many people seem to notice changes over time with their set. Is this true with LCD Projection sets? Besides some small initial break in time does the set significantly change it's output over time?


I've seen people talk about color changes, worsening vertical banding, and ghosting. Are these common occurances over time with these sets?

From my experience:

I have had my set since Dec 2002. I haven't noticed any issues, no stuck pixels, no bulb burnout or the other problems you mentioned.

There is 1 thing, I did use the original tweaks from UMR when I got TV. It looked great. In the past week, I have re-tweaked and it looks even better.
So I don't know if the tweaks have changed from a year plus ago OR it's just recommended that a re-tweak is done ever so often..

But I'm still happy after 1+years, except for the problem of having to wait forever for a placement bulb. I do want one on hand in case I really need it..

david(dallas),

It has changed.

Hmmm

I didn't realize the tweaks doc had changed from last summer. Did any of the "easy" (basic) tweaks change?

I'll go get the latest version and read through it.

SYSM was added in September of 2003. That is a very useful tweak if you have not implemented it.

It took me a long time to figure that one out.

Originally posted by Tigerriot
I've noticed when looking through this thread that many people seem to notice changes over time with their set. Is this true with LCD Projection sets? Besides some small initial break in time does the set significantly change it's output over time?


I've seen people talk about color changes, worsening vertical banding, and ghosting. Are these common occurances over time with these sets?

Had mine for over 1 1/2 years as well and no problems whatsoever. Will need to put in the color filter but been very very happy with the unit.

umr,

I apologize if you've already answer this, but if I use your settings to adjust the 'Pro' mode, will the Vivid & Standard remain unaffected?
Plus, are the 3 different modes not the same pic quality just because the setting are different? For example, if you made the setting for all 3 modes the same, would not the pic be the same?

Thanks

umr, sorry, I meant the above question for your thread covering adjustments to the setting for the GWIII. I have a kdf-xbr60950.

cdnscg,

The Pro mode tweaks will effect the other modes to some extent. Assuming you don't make a mess of things it should be an improvement.

The PQ will not be the same with the same settings in each mode. They each use different levels of filtering, enhancement and gamma.

Hi guys

Put in the filter which does improve the contrast with the blacks, however with bright white screens, I get a red hue. Just wondering what hue setting umr or others are using after placement of the filter.

china,

The filter is red. YOU must recalibrate the gray scale by reducing the red and/or increasing blue and green. Doing this is not simple.

My bad. I did recalibrate after placing the filter but the settings must have erased itself, so when I turned the tv back on, it was way red. But now that the setting remained, the tv looks great again. Thanks umr.

Not to interrupt the thread but no posts in a few days. Thought this would be the best place for this. I have tried 2 different Denon DVD players on my 60XBR800. Right out of the box they look terrible. Pioneer 563sa and Marantz 8400 have looked the best. Any thoughts form owners on this? Compatibility issues with LCD RPTV, Sony sets? Also, LOTR Return of the King didn't look that great whereas MI, Matrix Reloaded and the various Superbits look great thru the 563 Pioneer DVD. Just wondered what other GWII owners might have to say. Sorry if this isn't the proper venue.

Originally posted by jimmyjames8
...Sorry if this isn't the proper venue. I for one like to hear from any/all GWII owners especially the 60XBR800 which I have also. The other thread I have a sub to is "How's your GWII doing" which you will want to look at.

I wonder why you are trying so many DVD players i.e. if the Pioneer looks the best why not just stick with it? I dunno what the "holy grail" of DVD players is for the GWII, but I don't think Anyone has ever found a system that approaches the HD images the GWII is capable of.

I'd like to see a new thread e.g. "players, switchers, processors, HTPCs that work great w/GWII" or something.

In particular my current interest is with receivers (or processors) which up-convert non-hd sources to component video. My GWII is across the room from my equipment rack and it would be nice to have everything in the rack, and just have 3 component cables to the Sony. Oops, sorry rambling here and OT.

What I really want is a dvd that is compatible with my display that scales to 720p and 1080i. Since the bad experiences with the Denon machines I am leaning towards a Pioneer 59 or the Momitsu 880. Big price difference but I think I can borrow the Pioneer from the dealer for a home demo. Really want to see a scaled dvd image. May not be worth the trouble. All I know is with the right input signal (native 1080i not some stretched or reprocessed up converted crap), the GWII picture is just awesome and it doesn't seem to matter what pict mode I have it in.

As to racks, I went horizontal with 2 tier Sanus racks under and to the sides of my GWII.

Originally posted by jimmyjames8
I have tried 2 different Denon DVD players on my 60XBR800...Just wondered what other GWII owners might have to say.

Check out the Zenith DVB318 in this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=328403&goto=newpost

I picked one up and use it in 1080i mode via component. Anyway, I won't repeat all 150+ pages of the thread here, but I find the picture quality as good as everyone raves about over there. I don't really spend much time scrutinizing picture quality though, so don't take my word for it, check the thread. The price was right too, $160 shipped from http://www.gochnauers.com/.

I also have the 60xbr and just purchased the zenith about 2 months ago and I love it. There seems to be a lot of upconverting dvd players that will come out on the market this year, but most need to use the dvi input, which I reserve for the sat box. The 318 upconverts to 1080 or 720 through component cable, and while it is not true HD, it is 80-90% there. With that dvd player and all the tweaks posted here, I have been very satisfied. The dvd player is cheap too, at under $200

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3893767#post3893767

Edit: Sorry wrong thread, should have been UMR Does GWIII XBR & WE

-SMD

One thing! Make sure they don't leave with the pic tilted. It is not done in the SM. They might have to shim the light block to get it strait.

Got a Zeny DVB318 and just futzing with it for about 2 hours and 480p looks worse than Pioneer 563 480p. 720p looks slightly better and 1080i adds grain. I think UMR is right (was there ever any doubt) scaling with this set (via component) is a waste of time and money. I still can't believe the $150 Pioneer gives my GWII the best picture, better than a $1600 DVD player and many other machines at many other price points. The best picture on my set is still over HD cable from INHD and Discovery HD.

Originally posted by jimmyjames8
... I think UMR is right (was there ever any doubt) scaling with this set (via component) is a waste of time and money. ...

Not in my mind.;)

UMR: Thanks for posting many of the changes made after the installation of the filter. However, I was wondering if you made any changes to the user settings such as brightness, sharpness, and temperature.

Thanks.

Dale

daleebob,

Temperature is what is in the list. Brightness and sharpness may not be absolutely what I am using when you include all of the offsets, but they should be close. You should calibrate those to your equipment.

I have a Sony GWII 50" with Comcast Moto 6200 box, and I am not fully satisfied with my PQ. I have applied some of umr tweaks, but I see quite a lot of picture artifacts in both SD and HD channels. Close ups are very crisp and clear, the artifacts are more visible in the background or a panorama picture, motion shots and around channel logos and scrolling text. I have an older Hitachi RPTV with Comcast regular box (2100?) and the picture seeems a lot "cleaner". It shouldn't be a problem with the signal, its parameters on the Moto box are good (strong db, error counts almost 0). Can I adjust something in the TV SM?
umr, please help...

renpar61,

Sounds like you are seeing MPEG artifacts. These are common. You can increase the filtering to reduce them, but you will loose detail. All of my advice in the tweaks is targeted at maximum resolution not toward reducing it. I don't have much to say about this except that devices that are good at revealing details also reveal source flaws.

Thanks umr,
I appreciate you response. maybe this isn't the right place to ask but I am curious: do all cable/satellite providers use MPEG encoding? Is there a different level of compression from one provider to another or from one channel to another? Higher compression usually translates in more flaws and errors. Am I correct?

renpar61,

All HDTV uses MPEG processing at the consumer level. All satellite and digital cable use MPEG processing, Some SD cable and OTA is analog which does not use MPEG processing. There can definately be different levels and quality of compression between different channels and providers. Higher compression generally translates into more flaws. The original signal can also play a role. 1080i is more difficult to compress than 720p for example.

I did some more tweaking last night, and reapplyed the latest umr parameters after switching Cinemotion off. Very good results on both 480i and 480p. A lot of the artifacts are gone. I think the key issue was ther combination of SYSM and Cinemotion.
Thought I'd share...
I don't see much difference between 480i and 480p output on Motorola box (480p is just slightly better) through component, but 480p doesn't work through DVI. I found this quite odd. The picture is there for 15/20 seconds, then disappears and the screen turns into b/w snow (like no connected antenna). Any idea why?

Does anyone have the original settings for DVI input - 1080i for these two items:

2170P-2
UPOG
UBOG

Any help would be appreciated!

I didn't write them down

Originally posted by Harry Brandt
UMR:

Any thoughts about this?? I was adjusting MID1 DHPH to center the horizontal image. I started at 131...and as I moved upward moving the image from left to right....as the value crossed 139 to 140 there was a notable increase in brightness of perhaps 20%. Any ideas why moving the image across a specific point would lead to an abrupt increase in brightness?

Harry


I recently installed my HD Tivo and was calibrating overscan using HDNET test patterns using DVI. As I cross a certain value in MID1 DHPH it increases brightness. Does anyone know why?

UMR,

I just got my new lamp on Friday. I haven't looked inside. I haven't had a chance to do so.

They must have gotten a batch out. Mine came on Thursday.

All -

Got my spare lamp too! I feel better now.....

Aaron

Got mine too. I haven't looked in the box either.

I ran my new lamp for about a month to make sure it would not be one of those that fails quickly.

Crutchfield has Lamps for $199.99, no shipping or tax.

Originally posted by sushifishman
Crutchfield has Lamps for $199.99, no shipping or tax.

Do you have to wait or do they have them in stock?

I may have found a new tweak for the truly adventurous. The low pass filter on the Y output from the DVI converter appears to be redesigned on the GWIII XBR. It has a 34 MHz of bandpass instead of the 17 MHz on the GWII. This appears to be a flaw in the GWII design. It should be possible to replace the old filter with the new. We would need to remove the old part and put the new one on. Does anyone see a problem with this? What do you think are the tools required to do this with the technology used on these boards?

umr,

First of all, thank you so much for all you efforts. I've enjoyed my kf-60xbr800 tremendously for 17 months now, and your tweaks have been incredibly helpful.

I've been absolutely satisfied with the picture through the component inputs, using HD cable and sat boxes, as well as 480p DVD. Lately, however, I've been trying the DVI input for the first time, starting with when I received my HD DirecTiVo. I found the picture to be slightly less sharp, and with less pizzazz. Just a bit less of the Wow factor. I thought initially it was the TiVo, but after trying a cable box (Motorola 5100) DVI output, I have the exact same result. So now I am thinking that I need to adjust the settings for the DVI input somehow. Unfortunately, my initial attempts at this have been unsatisfactory.

I thought that the DVI input should provide a better picture than the component inputs. Is this assumption correct for this set? Can anyone steer me toward any particular DVI specific tweaks or tips that I may have overlooked?

Originally posted by ad301
umr,

First of all, thank you so much for all you efforts. I've enjoyed my kf-60xbr800 tremendously for 17 months now, and your tweaks have been incredibly helpful.

I've been absolutely satisfied with the picture through the component inputs, using HD cable and sat boxes, as well as 480p DVD. Lately, however, I've been trying the DVI input for the first time, starting with when I received my HD DirecTiVo. I found the picture to be slightly less sharp, and with less pizzazz. Just a bit less of the Wow factor. I thought initially it was the TiVo, but after trying a cable box (Motorola 5100) DVI output, I have the exact same result. So now I am thinking that I need to adjust the settings for the DVI input somehow. Unfortunately, my initial attempts at this have been unsatisfactory.

I thought that the DVI input should provide a better picture than the component inputs. Is this assumption correct for this set? Can anyone steer me toward any particular DVI specific tweaks or tips that I may have overlooked?

I recently started using DVI on my GWII and also found the picture was not up to my expectations. Since many of UMR's SM tweaks are input dependent, I went through each of the settings and make the DVI settings the same as my component input. This made a world of difference!

Originally posted by RobbinMerritt
I recently started using DVI on my GWII and also found the picture was not up to my expectations. Since many of UMR's SM tweaks are input dependent, I went through each of the settings and make the DVI settings the same as my component input. This made a world of difference!

Thanks for the encouragement. I know I need to play with the SM settings. I thought I had set them all to match my settings for component, but maybe I missed something along the way. As of right now, though, the DVI is like looking through a thin layer of fog, compared to the component input out of the exact same source.

I am experiencing the same thing. I don't think it is as bad as a "thin layer of fog" but there is definately a better picture via Component vs. DVI.

Per the guide (pre CC20R filter), my Component and DVI settings are the same.

Has anyone experimented with this? Is the component connection just better?

Originally posted by kkelley
I am experiencing the same thing. I don't think it is as bad as a "thin layer of fog" but there is definately a better picture via Component vs. DVI.

Per the guide (pre CC20R filter), my Component and DVI settings are the same.

Has anyone experimented with this? Is the component connection just better?


I may have overstated the effect slightly :) , but I believe we are talking about the same thing. I had thought that DVI would be even better than the great picture I get through the component outputs, but so far that is not the case. I'd be very interested in learning more about this issue.

Originally posted by umr
I may have found a new tweak for the truly adventurous. The low pass filter on the Y output from the DVI converter appears to be redesigned on the GWIII XBR. It has a 34 MHz of bandpass instead of the 17 MHz on the GWII. This appears to be a flaw in the GWII design. It should be possible to replace the old filter with the new. We would need to remove the old part and put the new one on. Does anyone see a problem with this? What do you think are the tools required to do this with the technology used on these boards?

This is not an issue.

I checked into this some more and it turns out the GWIII & GWII are identical in how this is done. The GWII has a misprint on the block diagram that led me astray.

Here is some info on how your DVI input is converted to component. It is not an impossibility that a devices DVI output could look worse than its component. Make sure your DVI input is fully tweaked in the service menu before you jump to any conclusions.

Asking this another way...

Is anyone getting a better picture with DVI over Component???

Originally posted by ad301
Thanks for the encouragement. I know I need to play with the SM settings. I thought I had set them all to match my settings for component, but maybe I missed something along the way. As of right now, though, the DVI is like looking through a thin layer of fog, compared to the component input out of the exact same source.


"A thin layer of fog" is exactly how I would describe my pre-adjustment look as compared to the same content via component. Unfortunately, I have no idea which setting(s) I updated that made the difference. I carefully went through the entire tweak document and wrote down my component settings and made sure each was the same. I always save after each since I can never remember when things are lost. My HD component settings are themselves copied from 480i component since I used Avia DVD patterns to adjust my gray scale and color settings.

Originally posted by RobbinMerritt
" My HD component settings are themselves copied from 480i component since I used Avia DVD patterns to adjust my gray scale and color settings.

I may be able to shed some light on this subject for moto 5100/6200 DVI users. The Moto HD box has a 4:3 override setting, allowing the user to select 480i or 480p for 4:3 material. Furthermore, the box has a HD setting, either 720p or 1080i. When tweaking the DVI input the user must make changes in the SM for all of the resolutions, that means switching channels from SD to HD and copying then saving the component settings for both! In my case SD is 480i and HD is 1080i. To make things simple you can turn off the 4:3 override and have the moto box scale everything to 720p or 1080i. I found however, that the quality of the SD suffers when doing this.

niesman

All I can say is WOW!!!!!! What a difference!

I thought this set looked great before but now it's a whole new ball game. Contrast and overall picture are just BETTER.

UMR, thanks again for adding your post filter installation settings to the tweak guide.

I wonder if I am done tweaking? I may not touch the service menu again until I replace the bulb.

I guess its back to the sound system...:D

kkelley,

Congratulations on entering the filter tweaked GWII club. It is a truly HUGE upgrade.

Ok, knock it off guys! You're starting to tempt me. I was intimidated by the easy tweaks in the SM so I've shied away from the filter but you guys are making it tough. Can't you say anything to keep us non-technical folks from opening the TV and screwing it all up?

Seriously, I'm glad to hear the filter is working so well. UMR did a great job documenting the process but I'm still gun shy. I'll just wait for the GWIV. Maybe Sony will get the black levels right by then. Besides, my TV is still the best I've ever seen so I'm happy with it.

bertschb,

Sorry about that. We'll keep it down so you guys don't get filter envy.

I should have said, "I'm glad your happy with your very subtle nitpicker's filter upgrade".

The upgrade is very easy thanks to the documentation.

The only part that was a little confusing to me was that after I slid the filter "as shown" up the right side of the projector lens that it needed to be fliped over the lens to the left.

The adjustment after that was kind of "hope and pray" to make sure I covered the lens properly. I have a feeling that if I hadn't covered the lens properly that it would be pretty obvious when the set was fired up again...

Thanks, I feel better now :)

For us non Sony owners, can those of you who made this filter tweak post some pics of the improved end results? I'd love to see what the Sony is capable of.

Originally posted by kkelley
The upgrade is very easy thanks to the documentation.

The only part that was a little confusing to me was that after I slid the filter "as shown" up the right side of the projector lens that it needed to be fliped over the lens to the left.

The adjustment after that was kind of "hope and pray" to make sure I covered the lens properly. I have a feeling that if I hadn't covered the lens properly that it would be pretty obvious when the set was fired up again...

Did you use my settings exactly for the CC20R?

Originally posted by Kid Red
For us non Sony owners, can those of you who made this filter tweak post some pics of the improved end results? I'd love to see what the Sony is capable of.

They are in this thread. Start with this post and look at the next page. I have posted several shots. I have a color corrected shot in my gallery as well that is a good example.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2182181#post2182181

umr- thanks. Some nice pics. So I was reading and the posts were old so now is a good follow up. Was the heat an issue? I saw someone asking about that. My viewing habits are have the set on 12+ a day sometimes and one every day to some extent. Also, any difference between the GWIII and the upcoming GWIV?

Kid,

Heat has not been an issue. I have about 2500 hours on the filter with no problems. I can't comment about the GWIV's because I have not seen one yet. I am guessing the days of LCD being a viable technology are numbered. LCoS should be a better option.

Really? I thought you didn't like the JVC? What other LCOS option is there?

Originally posted by Kid Red
Really? I thought you didn't like the JVC? What other LCOS option is there?

I don't like any LCoS RPTV's at this time, but they should beat out LCD. Many major manufacturers including Sony, Intel, Philips and JVC are working on it. JVC should have been able to surpass the GWIII in every category. Somehow, they managed to offer an expensive TV with few redeeming qualities.

Sony is doing a LCOS set? If comparing the JVC to the Sony GWIII, how much better is one over the other?

It depends on which GWIII you are talking about. The WE shares many of the same flaws as the JVC LCoS. JVC just adds a few more to the list. The XBR GWIII has a few fewer flaws than the WE. How much is debatable and very subjective. It depends on how you would score different flaws. Lets say the GWIII XBR scores a 70 out of 100 points. I would rate the WE probably at 60 out of 100 points and the JVC LCoS at 40 out of 100 points with 100 being a perfect TV.

I would give the GWIII XBR lower results for low contrast ratio and high black levels. I would lower the WE for all the above and its lenticular screen, higher black levels and less the perfect HD frequency performance. I would lower the JVC LCoS score for all the above and poor ANSI contrast, pixelation and electrical noise.

Sony's LCoS is called SXRD.

umr- Thanks, love the knowledge :) So at this point the WE is higher up then the JVC. I will see one (JVC) Friday and I'm looking forward to applying your comments to my critique. Also-how do you feel about the new Hitachis? Namely the 810 series?

Originally posted by Kid Red
umr- Thanks, love the knowledge :) So at this point the WE is higher up then the JVC. I will see one (JVC) Friday and I'm looking forward to applying your comments to my critique. Also-how do you feel about the new Hitachis? Namely the 810 series?

I have not seen the new Hitachi's so I have not first hand knowledge. The older model had a 255:1 contrast ratio compared to the GWIII WE which runs about 360:1. These differences are not minor. If Hitachi was to get the contrast ratio equal to the Sony then they might be very close. I like the user menu in the Hitachi quite a bit better than the Sony. It sounds like the new Sony's might be better than the current models.

You should note that front projector LCD's are capable of 1000:1 actual contrast ratios. This would be much less of an issue if LCD or LCoS could perform at this level in the RPTV incarnation.

Umr, I'm looking at all display types and such. What do you like in your Sony XBR LCD over a CRT rear projection display? Sharpness, color saturation? Thanks.

ay221,

It depends on the CRT rear projection. The best (9" tubes) CRT RPTV's have many fine qualities, but they would be too large for my situation. They also tend to lack screen brightness which is a big factor in my house. Burn-in is a big issue because I am a fanatic about geometry and my wife is likely to leave menus on the screen for long periods of time. Accuracy (gamma and color) near black is also a problem with CRTs that is difficult to correct. You must sacrifice contrast ratio to offset this. Less capable sets can have color accuracy, resolution and electronic noise problems as well. I also like the ability to refresh the lamp and get a bright screen after years of use.

I wish the LCD's had the contrast ratio of a properly calibrated CRT RPTV (~1500:1).

GWII - HTPC question here (also posted in HTPC)...


I didnt realize how lucky i had it. Previously, with Catalyst 4.6 drivers (w/9600xt), I had a working resolution of 800x600 on my GWII -without Refreshlock or other things. After moving to 4.7 I cannot find the magic numbers... this is really gonna be a pain if have to go thru this after every driver upgrade!

Does anyone have PowerStrip timings for a GWII @ 800x600 w/4.7 drivers? I dont care if interlaced or whatever- just need to be able to get to game menus etc...

I DO have 1280x720, 1184x666 working fine- is there a way to 'shrink' 1280x720 down to 800x600 thru PS?

One more question- I usually use PS to run desktop at 1184x666, but when boots up I have black screen until PS kicks in. IS there a way to keep the boot up resolution to 1280x720 (windows res.), so I can at least see what's going on...?


THX

PS- Yes I have tried other posted suggested timings for GWIII and refresh lock etc...

Originally posted by umr
Did you use my settings exactly for the CC20R?

UMR, sorry for the delayed response. I litterally went on vacation after making my last post.

I did copy the settings exactly. At some point, I'll probably verify but as in the past I don't expect there to be many (if any) changes to your settings.

umr,

Months ago, I posted the saga of my 50" XBR800 from a Sony Outlet. The third TV was the charm. Although it still exhibits the same color shift problem, it's better than the first two units I tried.

I have implemented your tweeks, including the CC20R. The CC20R is a significant tweek, and I thank you again for all the info you have provided.

Well, I liked the CC20R so much, I decided to see if I could improve the black level further by adding a neutral density filter as well. After viewing through a sampler "swatch," I went with ND 0.3, 1 stop. The combination produced mixed results.

First of all, I must point out that I attempted to get by "on the cheap" with some Lee and Roscolux polyester filters (cut down to 6"x6" from large sheets). I figured that if I was pleased with the picture, I'd pop for the Kodak Wratten (a c-note!).

The verdict:
The Good: I liked the improvement in black level a lot, improving the contrast level even further. I have a small room that I keep fairly dark for viewing, and I was accustomed to a 36" Wega XBR that I ran pretty "dark" before. So, decreased light output was not an issue for me. I made some additional service menu tweeks to get the white level higher to compensate for the ND filter. After reading through this thread, I know that many were not thrilled with the decreased light output after putting in a CC20R, so I know this tweek might only work for a handful of GWII owners. (Perhaps just me.:) )

The Bad: Refraction and reflections! Since the filters just sit on top of each other, they won't perfectly conform to each other. The result is sort of ghost images, especially noticeable with text, bright images, and in any black bars. Also, lining up the filters is extremely difficult, especially if you have to do it numerous times with different filters (Lee or Rosco) of different sizes (hand-cut to match the CC20R's size to minimize the refractive effects). Note: I followed the umr procedures every time, including gloves. I never removed the CC20R; I instead slid or tilted it with my fingertips to avoid damaging it.

...And the Ugly: Diffraction patterns. The Lee filter was really bad here, causing concentric rainbow circles. It was this that finally made me pull the ND filter. I may have been able to live with the "ghosting" and reflections, but the rainbow patterns got to me after a few days.

My question, then: Do you think the Kodak Wratten Gel Filter would exhibit fewer of these effects? Are there other options for adding an ND filter? I even checked with Kodak to be sure that they don't make any combo filters.

A Caution: I highly discourage anyone from trying this. This endeavor was extremely frustrating at times, and you do run the risk of damage to the CC20R. I am nuts, and I don't give up easily with this kind of stuff.

Thanks for any suggestions!

What you are seeing is consistent with others observations on n0n-Kodak filters. I would give Kodak a try, but there are no guarantees.

You sound like a man after my own heart though. Don't give up.

A better choice might be to use a filter holder and insert it by removing the top. I did this once before. I would recommend using two people to lift it off and a third to help line it up when you put it back.

You guys are nuts!

But, I'm glad you are because your efforts have helped the rest of us so much. Keep experimenting!

Ditto!!!!

I may give the Kodak a try, then. I dont' suppose there's much of a market for used Kodak Wratten ND filters if it doesn't work.

I'll let you know if I need info on "taking the top off." I'm sure I have no idea even where to start.

Also, I must mention that my CC20R has curled. I don't know if it has anything to do with the filter "sandwich" it was party to. Re-centering it over the lens when I pulled the ND was very difficult, since I couldn't get that far edge to "tuck" along that ledge any more. The curl produces no noticeable picture aberations when the CC20R is used alone.

Someday I hope to get a life.

Sorry to bring back the HTPC to GWII connection issue. Did my homework but can't find a simple up to date answer.

I have a desktop PC that I don't use any more and would like to hook it up to my KF60XBR800 to check emails and surf the internet time to time from 10 ft viewing distance. In other words, overscanning is not an issue but 1:1 mapping is important. I don't need high resolution as long as I get clear text fonts. I tried my friend's laptop with composite output at 640 by 480 but the texts are not so clear. I guess it's due to bad video card in the laptop with composite connection.

I already use 2 component inputs of my GWII but DVI, s-video input slots are still available.

What is the simplest and affordable solution for video card and software? Or, is it better to avoid this PC connection as the manual suggests?

Any help will be appreciated.

There are lots of threads in the HTPC section that details how to do this. I have a KF50XBR800 that I have connected to my HTPC. I have an ATI 9500 video card with DVI which I connect to my GWII. I just had to rebuild the OS on the HTPC (total HD crash - Yikes!) and have gone to the CAT4.7 drivers. Originally I was on CAT3.6 and was using PowerStrip to make adjustments. The CAT4.7 drivers do okay, but I really waiting for updated drivers from ATI.

So to really answer your question, it is very doable and I enjoy timeshifting TV via SageTV on my HTPC. A lot depends upon the components you are using. I would only go DVI from my HTPC to the GWII.

Hope this helps.

FWIW-

I have been toying with a GWII (50)HTPC for the past few months or so.
I do not use it to play DVD movies, however. (I use the ole Panny XP50)
Mostly for playing games, surfin, MS office work...

Definitely doin it on the cheap- here's my setup:

Dell 4550 (with extra ram) about $400- 1.5yrs old
ATI 9600xt ($100 ebay)
Use DVI connection ($30 cable)

Also use- Logitech Bluetooth MX wireless keyboard/mouse (not too impressed by non-line-of-sight connection)
Audigy zs (with analog and digital connections)

Software:
Power Strip (I can provide resolution timings, if you need them) - I mainly use 1280x720 (some games) and 1184x666 (desktop)

Refresh Lock (use it to get 800x600 res., a must for BF1942)

Getting the connection and resolutions working requires MUCH patience, but fun once you get it going. 1:1 mapping is going to be impossible, unless you dont mind missing much of the screen (pixels not in viewable range). Also, use care playing with MID settings (to reduce overscan) with DVI input- this WILL alter all other inputs, unlike GWIII...

Gloucerster,

Your setup is more or less what I had in mind. I have all the hardware including wireless keyboard, mouse except for the ATI 9600xt card. I should look for one on Ebay.

What is refresh lock for? What do you mean by BF1942?

1 more question.

Since you said you do MS office work at 1184x666, I guess reading the text isn't so painful on a big screen even though it's not 1:1 mapping. Now I have high hope.

I won't be changing MID settings b/c I watch DVD or HD or D*99% of the time. I hope it's okay.

Gloucerster,
What ATI drivers are you using?

Gloucester,

You should not give up so easily. MID3 can be used to alter the DVI input independent of the others.

VDHP - Horizontal Position
VDHS - Horizontal Size
VDVE - Vertical Position
VDVS - Vertical Size

One more question.

There are many threads about GWIII PC connection. Is PC connection for GWII the same as GWIII? Can I use the suggested set up for GWIII on GWII?

pdcho,
I use a ATI 9000 pro. Any ATI card that has DVI out should work. I allso had to use Power Strip too. I guess there is a Sony Monitor driver out there that will work with out having to use Power Strip but I never really tried too find it. Now that was before Windows XP. XP might have it. Don't know. I had to play with custom resolutions in Power Strip for a bit before I could get it to work right though. I then whent into the SM as UMR said to do to fine tune it. Here are some old threads on the subject.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=201060

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=420857

I know there are some older but I can't find them.

With the new ATi drivers out you can use the default plug/play monitor driver and get any res you want no need for Powerstrip anymore.

In order to get 800x600 resolution working, (which is required for certain programs -e.g. the BF1942 menu screen) I use Refresh Lock -a free download- to prevent Windows from trying to override my refresh rate to 60mhz - It allows me to lock in a 56mhz rate which is (mostly) stable. There is plenty of posted material on getting different resolutions working.

For the most part the GWIII PS timings work on the GWII, with some minor tweaking.

UMR- Thanks- I think I tried the MID3 adjustments, but still had it affect the Input6 (component) which connects the cable box. I will try again and make sure...If I can get that working I will use 1280x720 for all, as 1184x666 leaves an inch or so of underscan on right side.

I am using the Catalyst 4.7 drivers- be careful if you update drivers (copy down all power strip timings) as this often resets resolutions... I am hesitant to update again (to 4.9).

I would like to see the latest drivers and see how truly user friendly they are...Mazda can you tell me how they work (i.e. how to select custon rez)?

I also use PS to overclock the vid card (i can get about 550, 320memory out of my ATI).

Originally posted by TheGloucesterman
...UMR- Thanks- I think I tried the MID3 adjustments, but still had it affect the Input6 (component) which connects the cable box. I will try again and make sure...If I can get that working I will use 1280x720 for all, as 1184x666 leaves an inch or so of underscan on right side....

That is strange. I have used it on mine because my DVI HD STB crops the picture differently than my TWC 8000HD on component.

Hey Gloucesterman,
I'm a BF1942 player as well and just went back to trying to setup my spare PC with the GWII. I had tried it in the past but nothing really too appealing with PowerStrip. I have an ATI card I can use but noticed I can do custom timings and custom resolutions with the new NVidia drivers as well so I'm using an NVidia card with some success (which is more than I can say for the Nvidia cards before!) I guess I need to get a copy of refresh lock, does BF play ok using it in 800x600? Obviously I'd prefer 1024x768 if that would lock, have you tried that as well with any luck?

thanks!

Oh, and while I'm at it wanted to toss another quick "thanks" to umr for all the hard work, I still have the 'original' copy of your tweeks I first used to setup the GWII from over a year ago. It's really come a long way! Thanks again

For BF42- you only have to enable 800x600 to get into the main menu.
I actually play on fullscreen at 1184x666 (you can choose custom res. for the game). Resolution will change once map starts to load. My GWII has to battle with the resolution change for a bit, but gets there eventually- unfortunately, I am often late getting onto new maps... ;(

For more details see tigerdave's widescreen gaming site and search threads here. Once you change config files, I also recommend changing them to read-only to prevent BF1942 from overriding.

Let me know if this works for you.

In addition to BF1942, I am playing Far Cry (at 1280x720), and Call of Duty (same), and Prince of Persia (same) on widescreen w/no probs...
That said, I think the DLPs or even Panny LCDs do HTPC much easier than the GWs.

it's been awhile since i've visited the avsforum. mostly because i've been too busy enjoying my gw2. the umr tweaks have been amazing and have yet to see any hdtvs matching the pq as my gw2. but i'm a bit biased. ;)

i recently upgraded to a hdtv cable box through cablevision. i think it's the sa4200hd or something like that. it's utilizing video 6 through component cables.

do i tweak it using component? or is there a different tweak section for hd material?

i currently have my dvi connected to my htpc. am i better off connecting the hd cablebox using dvi? if it produces better pq...then i might do away with the htpc connection. hmm...

please advise. thanks.

imajazz,

You can tweak it over component or DVI. 720p and 1080i must be tweaked independently.

HD does have an advantage over DVI if your cable provider prevents certain programming from going out over component at HD resolutions. That is what DVI was primarily intended to do. I don't think this is happening yet so component should still be fine at this point in time.

DVI and component are nearly identical from a PQ standpoint it depends on the D/A converter in your STB versus the D/A in the DVI receiver chip.

The GWIV XBR950 does a better job than these sets. I have not seen anything else I would trade mine for other than some front projectors.

umr...thanks. i'm doing the tweaks as i type. i do have another question though.

i notice that on certain channels (primarily nbc hd and abc hd)...i get a green vertical line on the right side of tv screen. i heard this might be underscan. i played with and change the mid1 com settings for dhph (140), dvph (34), mdhs (224), and mdvs (129). i seem to have gotten rid of the green vertical line.

will the changes i made affect pq? i notice that it looks a bit different.

is there another way to get rid of the green vertical line? also...i get a cloudy white flickering on the top of screen. this is usually for sd programming, not hd stuff.

please advise. thanks again.

imajazz,

You need a test pattern to set the image scaling correctly. If you get HDNet use the pattern that is on Tuesday morning. It sounds like you don't have enough overscan.

I only adjusted DVHP to get rid of the green line. I didn't touch MDVS.
You can move the white flickering up by adjusting DRHP under Midi2 or DHPH under Midi1.

It almost sounds like you have a Voom STB.

i don't get hdnet unfortunately. i have inhd...does that have the test pattern? i also have digital video essentials dvd. i haven't use that in awhile. didn't really understand how to use it. hehe.

i have a cablevision stb. oddly enough...not many other cablevision customers complain about the green line. maybe it's just how my gw2 is setup.

i also changed the clarity and reality to 1. and turned cinemotion on. based on the umr tweaks. i did that for my regular cable tv. does this affect my hd programming on viceo 6? not sure since the advanced video is grayed out for video 6.

just seemed that it made a difference. could be in my head.

ideas?

Those settings only apply to 480i inputs.

oh ok. guess i'm just seeing things...hehee. thanks again, umr.

General, high level question from a newbie-novice to this world.

My setup first : I have a Sony 60xbr800 and Directv HD TIVO (HR10-250) with over-the-air HD local channels via a roof-top antenna. While I am currently depending on my XBOX as a DVD player, I will be getting a "real" DVD player soon (haven't chosen one yet and would love input from those that know better). In the end, I will therefore have the HD TIVO using the TV's DVI connection and the future DVD will use a component (ie in total I will only have two connections or sources of interest feeding the TV).

I plan to perform UMR's tweaks soon and was a little confused on what to expect once this is complete, other than the obvious better picture quality:

1) It looks like the intent is to perform the tweaks while the TV is set to Pro mode, adjusting the appropriate user or service menu settings to specific values listed in the guide. This seems pretty straight forward, and sounds like it will effect both of my two sources (HD TIVO and future DVD), right ? In other words, regardless of the devices I've connected to the TV, as long as I set the TV to Pro and make the tweaks properly, then each source will benefit, right (albeit to varying degrees)? Or, are the tweaks source dependent and the service menu requires you to differentiate for each source tha value of each item?

2) Seems like this optimizes the Pro mode and the other modes (vivid, standard, etc), while impacted, go along for the ride and may not be optimized, right ? Maybe I'm not taking the right approach but I was hoping to tailor two of the modes, one for day and one for night viewing. If it's true the tweaks really only address Pro, how do most people address the issue of optimizations for day-time viewing vs night time viewing ? I was thinking that you would pick one mode for day, one for night, and optimize them independent of each other for future use under these two very different lighting conditions. But if the guide is meant solely for Pro mode and I perform the tweaks at night, how best to then set the TV up for day viewing ?

3) I may go through this process using my Avia or Video Essentials DVD test patterns, where appropriate, with the XBOX being the DVD player hooked up to my component TV inputs. Should I instead wait until I purchase a real DVD of higher quality (keep in mind as I right this I realize I don't know enough about DVD players or the XBOX to know why one would be better than the other) ?

4) Lastly, do I understand correctly that once you're through with the tweaks and you save them to memory, you can't restore factory defaults easily (other than manually doing so for each item) ?

thanks folks, this will be most helpful

1) The service menu adjustments are a complex mix that generally do not effect all inputs. One of the benefits is you can have different settings for each input type.

2)Each mode does not always get tweaked when you adjust Pro mode. You must or can tweak each mode independently for the most part. I have no idea how most people address day/night viewing on these sets. I use the same settings for both.

3) It does not hurt to adjust your set with XBOX. You will need to revisit your settings when you get any new source.

4) It is a manual exercise to restore the factory settings.

crsanders,

You may want to take a look at the GWIII tweaks. The procedure to tweak your TV is laid out in a different format, but the details are a little different for your set. I may help you understand the process better though.

Gotcha, thanks very much umr for the answers to my questions, I'll take a look at the GWIII tweak guide like you suggest.

thanks again

Need advice regarding my GWII:

I just switched from a Dish 6000 HDTV receiver to Direct TV HD Tivo. Prior to the change, my GWII was calibrated using UMR advice and AVIA -- and I was very pleased with the results. Post change, the image is noticeably darker, particularly in darker shows like Law and Order. This difference has been noted in the Tivo Community Forum and ascribed to differences in black level settings between the two receivers.

Three questions:

1. Do I need to readjust my settings for the new receiver? (or is it a matter of getting used to the new image)

2. If so, can I use the HDNET test patterns for the adjustments?

3. How do I best take advantage of the HDNET test patterns (the more specific, the better).

Thanks.

Coffeo

1. Probably.

2. Yes.

3. Record the patterns and use them to adust UPOF and UBOF. YOu need to be able to see all the numbers in the black/gray/white boxes. You may also want to adjust the color decoder for this input differently.

Our GWII is going on two years now, just wondering if internal cleaning is recommended or even possible? Such as on our older Sony CRT RPTV, cleaning the three CRT's made a difference with image clarity.
Thanks....

sdwow,

I would not clean the optical path unless you see dust on the panels.

I would consider cleaning the heat sink on the optical unit if your TV has dust inside of it. Cooling the panels is key. One way to judge this would be to check the temperature your TV is running in the service menu. I never see temperatures above 42 deg C. Anything above 48 deg C would seem like a point where cleaning should be considered.

This last spring when I finally got a nice looking stand for my GWII & a nice reciever I rearranged my living room. Since having help I took the opportunity to pop the top & take the back off of the TV to clean it out. There was lots of dust eveywhere & a few cobwebs.

Originally posted by Couch Patato
This last spring when I finally got a nice looking stand for my GWII & a nice reciever I rearranged my living room. Since having help I took the opportunity to pop the top & take the back off of the TV to clean it out. There was lots of dust eveywhere & a few cobwebs.

You found lots of dust on the projection lens and mirror?

I'm sorry. I should have been more specific. I removed the top but the seal between the top & bottom was just fine so it looked very clean in both sides. "The Optical & Mirror" There was allot of dust & a few cobwebs it the OPEN parts of the TV. The fans & boards & areas like that.

Thanks guys for the responses....

Being close to two years now, I knew what to expect with our older Sony after just 6 months..... Darn dust gets everywhere.

Have an Arcam DV-79 hooked up to my 50XBR800 this weekend, just for a home eval. I'm actually interested in an Arcam DV27-A, but they don't have it on hand and must order it.

I've been running a Pioneer DV-37, in auto-progressive mode. It automatically selects interlaced for 4:3, and progressive for 16:9. I agree with the unit. If I force 4:3 to progressive, there is a strange horizontal jaggy effect with movement or quick transitions. Likewise, interlaced is not as good for 16:9 (frankly, I don't remember if there are any strange artifacts when configured this way). When the Pioneer is in Auto-progressive mode (where I leave it) my GWII pops back and forth from interlace to progressive between menu and programs on a DVD. Even for many 4:3 shows and movies (e.g. Alec Guiness collection, The West Wing), menus are 16:9 and the player and TV "pop" back and forth to display the proper format.

The Pioneer's poor performance in progressive on 4:3 was the main reason I wanted to test-drive the 27-A since I would have it connected with the progressive output.

Well, the 79 is not even forcing the video into "Full" mode. I must select it manually with the TV remote. The DV-79 set-up output _is_ set for 16:9. Some observations:

Paramount logo "card" on Star Trek (Original Series, new DVD box) is displayed squeezed 4:3.

Fifth Element, Superbit: menu and program squeezed 4:3.

I suspect there is a problem with this dv79 (component output). But does the GWII change back and forth to properly display menus/program if the signal is always progressive, or is this just something that the Pioneer can accomplish with the auto-progressive mode?

Thanks for listening...

neal,

Some players output a signal that tells the GW to switch to Full while others do not. The Arcam sounds like one that does not. My Denon DVD-3800 has the same problem. My old Panasonic DVD-XP30 and Sony DVP-S7000 sent the proper signal. This is a problem with the player and not the TV.

Thanks, umr. That puts my mind at ease. Plus, I've been studying the DVD shoot-out info at "Secrets," and I now know that what I've been seeing is "combing," and the player is the culprit.

On another note, I had a brainstorm a couple of weeks ago for adding a ND filter and avoiding reflections (see my previous posts). I remembered those transparent report folders that I used in grammar school--you know, with the removable colored plastic spines. I figured I could use two lengths at opposite ends, letting the nestled filters (ND and CC20R) curl, in place. Well, I can't find those report folders at OfficeMax, but I have something even thinner that is a plastic protector from a large straight edge. If I have to, I'll cut it up. If anyone has any other ideas...

Thinking I might have the reflection problem "solved," I began testing with my old poly Lee filters. One stop (.3) is too dark; boosting the pic level still leaves the image too dim. So, I've ordered the 2/3 stop (.2) Kodak Wratten, 150mm. Of course, it's on back-order, so I'll post when it's in.

Lamp number two lasted only 1698 hrs! I talked to Sony customer service. They will only consider compensation after a sony rep has spec'd out the set. The service rep told me that the lamp life must be a result of something else wrong within the TV. I doubt it, but I am going to set up a visit by a sony rep. I will keep you posted.

niesman

Lamp life is not only due to hours used; other factors include how many power cycles, (fewer is obviously better), and the temperature of the lamp when powered on, (better that it has completely cooled down. IIRC, it takes about an hour.)

A few others had bulbs fail around the same time, they were power cycling a lot, IIRC, 3 or more times per day; and turning the TV on while hot, often. Or it could simply be a defective lamp. I tend to doubt it is the TV, but it is possible.

QZ1,

Thanks for the reply, I am aware of all the things you have mentioned. My first lamp took the most abuse with UMRs tweaking and my own curiosity and lasted 500 hrs longer! The second lamp has been babied in comparison. My beef is that Sony reps have told me in the past that the expected lamp life is 3000 hrs. It appears that the true lamp life is closer to 2000 and at $200 a pop, Sony Sony should consider discounting the price if they can not deliver on the 3000 hrs.

niesman

IIRC, the lamp life was supposed to be 6000-8000 hours. I think they said 3000 to you, because they didn't want you to complain, more than you already did.

I remember reading about people who got about the right number of hours out of the lamp.

I have umr's instructions to get into the service menu, but where specifically are the lamp hours listed?

Scroll through the main pages. It's there somewhere.

It's been a few months now but I'm at somewhere between 9,000 & 10,000 hours on my bulb. It's been two yeas this week since i got my GWII. Still very happy!:) I still have not ordered a new bulb yet.

Originally posted by Couch Patato
Scroll through the main pages. It's there somewhere.

It's been a few months now but I'm at somewhere between 9,000 & 10,000 hours on my bulb. It's been two yeas this week since i got my GWII. Still very happy!:) I still have not ordered a new bulb yet.


(2yrs)*(365days/yr)*(14hrs/day) = 10080 hrs

I find it hard to belive that you are watching TV 12 to 14 hrs a day.

But then again your are the couch potato:D

niesman

Between "watching TV" and "worrying about watching TV" (namely haunting these boards) it's no wonder society is going to heck in a hand-basket!:p

Originally posted by niesman
(2yrs)*(365days/yr)*(14hrs/day) = 10080 hrs

I find it hard to belive that you are watching TV 12 to 14 hrs a day.

But then again your are the couch potato:D

niesman

Here ya go!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v169/Colorado59/Miss%20Pics/24820882_553800.jpg

Couch potato,

You are the Man!

niesman:D

Not only that, but instead of his eyesight being 20/20, it's 4:3 or 16:9. At least for 14 hours of the day. ;) Have a Merry Xmas and a Happy New Year everyone.

Couch Patato,

Is the Center Channel Speaker sitting on the TV?
If so, I thought it could cause the TV to warp.

Or maybe there is a weight restriction?
Though I see nothing in the instructions about it.

I don't have Surround Sound yet, so I would like to know.

I only have about 4000 hours on my lamp at this time. I would guess something may be wrong with your lamp ballast. That is one of the more common faults with this set, but it can run a few hundred dollars to replace.

Thanks for your input UMR, I am in the process of having my set checked out by a local Sony suggested tech.

niesman

I would like to have different settings for DVI, Component, and RF, but every change is universal; is there a way for them to be saved independently?

umr- offtopic, I apologize. But in the big JVC thread, we're discussing the possibility on your filter tweak on the JVC and wondered your input on that? You can pop your head in their if you like.

Originally posted by QZ1
I would like to have different settings for DVI, Component, and RF, but every change is universal; is there a way for them to be saved independently?

I haven't found any Brightness/Contrast settings that only effect one of the resolutions (1080/720/480i/p) on each input. What other settings are you looking to tweak? I finally broke down and used standard on the DVI input and then pro on the others.

I bought a Sony DVP-NS975V (upconverting Sony Unit) and tweaked the brightness/contrast on the DVI and component separately. Interestingly, the 1080i and 720p both need to have the brightness set LOWER than the 480i/p.

No, I would like to have a different settings for each input, but if I make a changes, it changes every input. I would like more brightness on RF and possibly Component.

Originally posted by QZ1
I would like to have different settings for DVI, Component, and RF, but every change is universal; is there a way for them to be saved independently?

Have you made any adjustments in the service menu? I can tell you the parameters that make much (but not all) of this possible in the service menu. If you have not previously made changes in the service menu, I must refer you to umr's many warnings on the subject in this thread.

If you are prepared to make these changes, I can advise you further--not to step on umr's toes :) .

Originally posted by Kid Red
umr- offtopic, I apologize. But in the big JVC thread, we're discussing the possibility on your filter tweak on the JVC and wondered your input on that? You can pop your head in their if you like.

Not sure what thread you are talking about, but the tweak should work on a LCoS, DLP or LCD RPTV.

Originally posted by nealgrof
Have you made any adjustments in the service menu? I can tell you the parameters that make much (but not all) of this possible in the service menu.
No, I haven't tweaked the Service Menu. So, is it normal for the User Menu settings to be universal to each input or not?

Originally posted by QZ1
...So, is it normal for the User Menu settings to be universal to each input or not?

Yes, it is normal on this TV. Here is a link to the latest set of recommended adjustments for this TV. Good luck and happy holidays.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3770895#post3770895

Originally posted by umr
I only have about 4000 hours on my lamp at this time. I would guess something may be wrong with your lamp ballast. That is one of the more common faults with this set, but it can run a few hundred dollars to replace.

You were correct. The Sony rep came out today and the lamp ballast failed the diagnostics. Unfortunately the ballast the rep had on hand was for a GWIII. He will be back in 2Hrs. Sony has hinted that they will "help me out with the cost ($300)" . We will see.

niesman

Please Help!
I have many questions. First, I did umr's tweaks for my 50xbr800 today and as best as I can discribe my picture seems blurry. on page 4 of 22 of the tweak umr gives all the values. When hit my reset button my values now match umr's. Did I miss a step? Is this how the picture should be? Next, the main reason I did umr's tweak is because I seemed to have qute a bit of motion pixelation with a 480p or 1080i picture. This tweak did not seem to fix this probl. Unless I did something wrong? any and all help is greatly appreciated.

I also notice that there seems to be a yellowish tint to the picture. I just checked all the colors using Avia and THX opimizer. Any thoughts there?

The yellowish tint is probably a gray scale issue. You may have set contrast too high or need to adjust gray scale.

It is hard for me to know what you have done. You may want to return your set to the original values. Many of the values should not be set to what I found, but require test patterns to set correctly.

You were correct about the contrast! Also I changed the 2170P-3, SYSM to a value of 1 instead of the 3 you recomended. The picture cleared up alot. Should I have changed something else or was that wrong? The color is dead on and looks great. (color that is) I now have a new probl. When I am viewing a 480I or 4 x 3 aspect ratio, I can tell that the picture now is not a square. The picture concaves in on the sides at the top. I started to play with MID 1 COM settings but could not seem to get it right. Would you please advise?

You were correct about the contrast! Also I changed the 2170P-3, SYSM to a value of 1 instead of the 3 you recomended. The picture cleared up alot. Should I have changed something else or was that wrong? The color is dead on and looks great. (color that is) I now have a new probl. When I am viewing a 480I or 4 x 3 aspect ratio, I can tell that the picture now is not a square. The picture concaves in on the sides at the top. I started to play with MID 1 COM settings but could not seem to get it right. Would you please advise?

SYSM should be 3.

The concave image is probably caused by your mirror sagging slightly. I know of no way to fix this.

When I set the SYSM to 3 it appears that the sharpness is way out of whack. I don't want to go so far as to say that the picture has ghost but, it kind of does. I also seem to have a little static in my picture. Any comment there? As for the the sag in the mirror I didn't seem to notice it until I did the tweak. Could my set have been so far out of whack that now that your tweak has been preformed to a much higher standard of viewing pleasure it has become noticeable?

Sharpness needs to be calibrated.

You are probably paying more attention to problems now than before. The tweaks have no effect on how straight lines are on the TV. You may also have adjusted the overscan too low.

When you say "calibrated" do you mean in the SM or the user menu? When I went to adjust the sharpness in the user menu I did not see much of a difference between 0% and 100%? Where did I adjust overscan?

Welcome back to the states! if you are back. If not safe travel.

I just got back from the UK.

There are many different adjustments for overscan. The ones referenced in the procedure are in MID1, MID2, MID6, PLL-C and H POS AD.

Sharpness can be adjusted in the user or service menu. They are the same things. The service mode tweaks reduce the impact of these service adjustments. You may also have a problem with image revision if you are still seeing ghosting problems.

I have the image revision set to "auto". I used to keep it on 3. I can't tell a difference between "2" and "3". Is "auto" OK? Should I set the "sharpness" in the SM to a lower value to get more impact from the UM?

Thank you so much for your help with this! I was intimidated at first to do the tweak but now that I can such a difference, I want to do every thing I can to get the set to looking its best. I went to my local Photo store to order the Kodak CC20, They are going to source it for me. It may take some time to get thought.

UMR, I don't see the 'DRC Clarity' in the User Menu (or Service Menu), where is it?

If this setting exists, I noticed in one of the later revs. of your tweaks, you had it set for '100', then in the last rev. changed it to '1'; is the latter correct or a typo?

And, I only see 'DRC Reality' in the User Menu, when using the 'TV' input, is that normal?

Originally posted by AMO
I have the image revision set to "auto". I used to keep it on 3. I can't tell a difference between "2" and "3". Is "auto" OK? Should I set the "sharpness" in the SM to a lower value to get more impact from the UM?

....

Each set is unique with respect to image revision and the setting changes with time on each set. I would experiment with all the user menu settings and V POS D in the service mode as well. I find black vertical lines on a white or light gray background to be most useful for this adjustment.

I would try both the SM and UM for adjusting sharpness, but I doubt it is necessary to use the SM.

Originally posted by QZ1
UMR, I don't see the 'DRC Clarity' in the User Menu (or Service Menu), where is it?

If this setting exists, I noticed in one of the later revs. of your tweaks, you had it set for '100', then in the last rev. changed it to '1'; is the latter correct or a typo?

And, I only see 'DRC Reality' in the User Menu, when using the 'TV' input, is that normal?

It is under the Advanced Video option and is only available with 480i inputs. The settings for this changed after I found SYSM if my memory is not flawed.

Here is an excerpt from the manual that may help you in finding Clarity.

For most people you you help on this site, you probl. save them hundreds of dollars. For me, you saved me THOUSANDS. I was on the verge of replacing this set for pennies on the dollar. Thank you!

Any suggestions for the pixelation? Line doubler, scanner or new HD receiver?

The pixelation is probably source related. What specific sources are you using.

HD = SAT-HD200, DVD = Arcam DV88 Plus (great player)

I am still using the DVi cable that came with the SAT-HD200, I have not upgraded it because I was not sure I was going to keep it hooked up that way. I have not had a chance to get behind my system to change it to RGB since I tweaked it. I am how ever pretty happy with it thus far.

Your Arcam player should be very similar to the Denon DVD-3800 that I use. Its frequency response looks to be a little worse though with -4.57 dB @ 5.8 MHz vs. ~ +1 dB with for the Denon. A Faroudja player would reduce chroma (color) based pixelation, but at the cost of resolution. Switching to the Denon DVD-3800 should be an improvement in resolution, but you may see more MPEG artifacts.

Sony makes some very nice equipment, but cable is frequently a better option for HD than satellite these days. OTA may also be a better option depending on how much multicasting is going on in your area. I find Sony and LG to make the best HD STB's that I have used.

I would only consider a line doubler if you are into PAL sources. The DVDO IScan HD is a nice choice if you want to go this route.

The CC20R filter was a HUGE improvement on my set. That tweak actually makes these sets better than the current models other than the XBR950 in some respects.