Edit Note:

I modified the UPOG and UBOG settings after hooking my DVD player up with a S-Video connection. 12/3/02

Added a new section on how to improve detail level. This is not a minor improvement. 12/3/02

Modified overall settings after changing color temperature back to factory warm and added section on adjusting the color decoder. 12/4/02

Updated to latest settings and removed section on how to use modes other than PRO. 12/9/02

Added link to download settings. 12/11/02

Modified link and deleted the old info here 1/12/03

Modified link to download settings. 1/31/03

Modified link to download settings and FAQ file. 2/15/03

Modified link to download new settings and FAQ file. 2/18/03

Modified link to download new setting. 9/6/03

Removed link to download settings to prevent people from having problems. 10/29/03

For more info on why click here. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2863719#post2863719)

P.S. Read the entire thread and you will find all of the info on how to tweak this set.

Non-CRT TVs do not have Scan Velocity Modulation, a feature that can add unwanted edge enhancement.

Do Vivid and Standard modes on the LCD XBR have some similar sharpness/edge enhancement that can be disabled so they are more like Pro mode? If so, have you figured out what that code might be?

Any idea what Mild is doing? The ends of the resolution patterns (S&V Home Theater Tune-Up DVD) wave like tadpoles in Mild mode, whereas they're still in Vivid, Standard and Pro modes -- Pro being the best -- the 6.75 straight-lines-in-a-circle (lower right side of chart) are even brightness in Pro mode -- Vivid and Standard seem to be set with weird sharpness settings that don't allow you to adjust sharpness well.

eweiss,

No need to remove your post. It seems on target to me.

I believe Vivid and Standard mode look like PRO if you change the settings I suggested. I am not sure which ones are critical, but they look the same to me after these changes.

Mild seems to be a different mode from all the others. Look at Table 1 for 2170P-1 it shows different settings for Mild and NOT Mild. I avoided mild because I did not really need it and it looked odd to me also.

Umr,

I have implemented your sm settings on my 60" XBR. Either I have improved my eye sight or the Dish Network feed through s-video (input) is looking better. There are minor differences from your original setting:

Mode: Pro
Picture: 11 ticks from center.
Sharpness: 4 ticks from center (greater than 50%).

The locals are looking better but I still have problem watching sports... By the way, I rather watch the satellite feed on 4:3 (normal) rather than any other mode. If I use any other mode, I get more satellite artifacts. The mode that looks the best is full but it is hard to watch 4:3 material on full mode. Please post any other changes that you make.

I have not seen any HD signal on my Tv and right now I am debating whether to do it now or wait unti dish comes out with their HD PVR. I watched DVD movies this past weekend and the tv was awesome. I have to play a DVD and see how it looks with these new settings.

Thanks.

motjes2,

Thanks for the feedback.

I would suggest you adjust the user menu for PRO with the DVD player first and then use UPOG, UBOG, UCOF, UHOF and SHOF to fine tune the other inputs in PRO if you didn't do this already. These settings appear to be offsets for the user menu. My values are just a starting point. What I did was calibrate my set with the DVD player. Then I visually adjusted the picture and brightness for HD while trying to keep the settings the same for that input's PRO mode. Once that was complete I used the HD signal to calibrate my Dish signal with a local channel by adjusting the brightness and picture for that input while keeping the other PRO mode settings constant for that input.

I have read another reply from someone with TIVO who had great results too. I think the key settings for improving the satellite image are the gamma settings and dropping the picture and brightness. The factory settings appear to be off for the s-video and composite inputs.

I like the results from adjusting white balance too, but I am a little concerned about putting that information out since that is probably very set dependent.

I also use Normal mode for everything. The Sony will then automatically adjust the scaling to match the signal.

HD on my set is fabulous.

I have modified my original post and added a new tweak to improve image detail.

For those interested in what PIC-BOOST is doing this link seems to be documentation for the chip located on BC board.

TDA9178 (http://www.semiconductors.philips.com/acrobat/datasheets/TDA9178_1.pdf)

umr
You have PM

motjes,

I had the same issue of waiting to get a Dish 6000 or wait for the PVR. The result is that I got the Dish600. Reason was the following....

1) Dish is known for missed release dates and who knows when the PVR will finally arrive and when it does you can be assured it will have a few bugs in it.

2) It will come out expensive based on previous Dish releases.

3) During the deleys and frustration you will be missing some good HD.. Seeing Shrek in HD is something to see for one. This TV rocks on true HD material.. Boy I wish they would do the superbowl in HD...

That is why I did not wait. It does also help a bit with picture quality but I am dealing with a blurry picture issue and I am not sure if it is do to the reciever. I know what soft is and this is not a soft picture it is blurry. ;)

WeeJavaDude,

The superbowl will be in 720p this year (ABC).

umr,

Thanks for all your efforts. Greatly appreciated!!

I have been eyeing a GWII for a while and thought that its major weakness (beyond the blacks) was the relative lack of picture sharpness in comparison to the HLM507. With all these tweaks, how do you now compare the GWII picture to the HLM507?

jdkJake,

I think the GWII is very close to the 507 in detail if not superior depending on source material with these changes.

UMR,

I've applied your suggested settings to my 50" and directivo on video 1 with excellent results. Although I havent decided whether its a little too dark for me now or I just got used to how it looked previously.

Did you appy the gamm=4 and blk=0 to your dvd input, also, or only dish?

furiousry

I am using PRO mode for Video 5 which uses gamm=4 & blk=0 by default.

For those who are interested I have added information on how to adjust your color decoder to my first post and modified my settings based on changing the service menu items and restoring factory color temperature.

The only thing I would like to improve now is the white balance, but it has been difficult to better the factory warm setting.

umr

I might try these settings this weekend. How long does it take to adjust
the settings and how much gamble is it?
My wife likes the settings now, so I would have to convince her to let me
play around with it and hopefully not mess it up.

umr -- You are the Graham Norbury of the KF-xxXBR800. Graham took it upon himself to master the codes and tweaks of last year's HW series of Sony RPTVs and posted his tweaks at http://www.hometheaterspot.com -- and we are very grateful to you for doing this here for us.

rgathright,

I don't believe anything I have posted is a gamble, but it depends on your level of comfort with these things. I have only posted what I tried that worked so you are avoiding a lot of the risk that I took experimenting. However, this is the service menu so danger does await for changing the wrong item.

If you want to play it safe write the original settings you are changing down and be sure to record the category, item name, item number, data value, input and signal type like Video 5 480i. I would also avoid trying to correct Vivid, Standard and Mild because you have to change a lot of items to do that and your chances of making a mistake increase dramatically with little improvement if you can live with the PRO mode. Also, anytime you think you might have hit the increment or decrement buttons by mistake unplug the tv (after you let it cool down of course).

Start with the items for improved detail and do not save anything. As long as you don't change inputs or modes these changes will stay in effect. If you don't like it return the items to their old values or unplug the TV. If you do like it save those settings and go to the next mode/input/signal type you plan to use. This improvement should not upset anyone since it sharpens the detail.

The rest could be hit or miss depending on your preference. If you want a more accurate display the color decoder changes are a real improvement along with the gamma table changes for s-video/composite/rf inputs.

The riskiest part is changing the UPOG and UBOG for each input since you must save them and cycle through the modes before you can see the effect. However, this is a must if you plan to use PRO mode for every input and you need different levels for various inputs. There is another option to this that I am going to look into, but I don't think it will involve fewer changes in the service menu.

Umr,

Keep at it...

Last night I implemented the "THE IMAGE DETAIL" but I saw very little improvement or none. I have to check tonight again because I was a little busy with other things. I have not done "THE COLOR DECODER" yet. I will try tonight.

Before I implemented the tweaks, I could hardly watch any sports on it (I subscribe to NBA LP (this is supposed to have less compression than the other dish channels). Now, I can watch even at a 10 feet distance. I still see artifacts when there is movement. But the improvement has been quite good. I'll let you know tonight...

motjes2

You need to be on a high quality source to see the difference. I was looking at AOTC on dvd. Go in the service menu while you are watching a high quality dvd source that is paused and the change should be obvious.

Umr,

I believe you told me that you are using the samsung SIR-T165. Is this correct? Questions:

(1) how is the Digital (non-HD) over the air compare with the Dish locals (I am assuming that you subscribe to dish local)?

(2) have you used the scaler of the sir-t165 for the dish signal to see if there is any gain?

Originally posted by motjes2
Umr,

I believe you told me that you are using the samsung SIR-T165. Is this correct? Questions:

(1) how is the Digital (non-HD) over the air compare with the Dish locals (I am assuming that you subscribe to dish local)?

(2) have you used the scaler of the sir-t165 for the dish signal to see if there is any gain?

The locals on the SIR-T165 are definately better than dish. I would cancel my locals if I wasn't using a PVR.

I have not tried the scaler in SIR-T165 because switching inputs on the Samsung is much more difficult (WAF) than the Sony with my Pronto and many other people think it is not all that great.

umr

What do you mean by "cycle through the modes", also do you have to reset
these each time you switch from SD, DVD and HD.

Originally posted by rgathright
umr

What do you mean by "cycle through the modes", also do you have to reset
these each time you switch from SD, DVD and HD.

By "cycle through the modes" I mean you need to force the TV to load the settings for PRO by leaving PRO mode and then reentering it.

Not sure what you mean by reset.

The thing to know is that the TV has memory locations for each input type and display resolution. This means that DVI with 1080i may be a different memory location from DVI with 720p depending on the parameter. You need to change all inputs and resolutions you will be using to achieve the desired result. To do this you must select the input while in the SM, change the values and save them before leaving that mode (PRO...) or input or resolution, or the changes will be lost.

Once these changes are saved they are permanent until you save something else in the SM.

Originally posted by eweiss
umr -- You are the Graham Norbury of the KF-xxXBR800. Graham took it upon himself to master the codes and tweaks of last year's HW series of Sony RPTVs and posted his tweaks at http://www.hometheaterspot.com -- and we are very grateful to you for doing this here for us.

Yes, as a potential purchaser of the 50" GWII, your work is easing my fears about making the leap...

Are you referencing a factory service manual or just trial/error?

Is a factory service manual available? If so, where/how much?


Thanks!

Originally posted by SimRacer
Yes, as a potential purchaser of the 50" GWII, your work is easing my fears about making the leap...

Are you referencing a factory service manual or just trial/error?

Is a factory service manual available? If so, where/how much?


Thanks!

You can order/buy the Service Manual for the KF-50XBR800/KF-60XBR800 for $29 + tax + $3.50 s&h from Sony (877) 865-SONY (7669) -- if that # isn't right, eventually you'll get a person who will tell you what toll-free number to call to order the "Service Manual." You'll have it in less than a week, likely -- I think mine came in 4 days -- the same day my TV was delivered from Tweeter. The grids/charts are confusing, but you'll have ALL the information that umr is referring to.

umr, when are you coming to florida to do my gw?:)

Originally posted by eweiss
You can order/buy the Service Manual for the KF-50XBR800/KF-60XBR800 for $29 + tax + $3.50 s&h from Sony (877) 865-SONY (7669) -- if that # isn't right, eventually you'll get a person who will tell you what toll-free number to call to order the "Service Manual." You'll have it in less than a week, likely -- I think mine came in 4 days -- the same day my TV was delivered from Tweeter. The grids/charts are confusing, but you'll have ALL the information that umr is referring to.

Thank you, sounds like I'll be ordering one tomorrow :)

umr,

I have made a spreadsheet with the settings that you have proposed so far. Since I though it was a good idea to follow the progression of all the tweaks that are made I have included the ones you did on 12/3 and 12/4. I need to convert the spreadsheet to pdf in order to post it but I would like to e-mail it to you before it is posted if you do not mind.

umr,

I have applied the latest settings. I find that on the 60" the settings made the screen go darker than before. It helps with the dish artifacts specially on normal view and it really helps the wide zoom mode for letterbox material. However, whenever there is action on a tv program, I see the artifacts. Not as bad as before. Which of the settings do you think I might want to try to either lower or increase to hide them a little more. I think since you have a 50", you must see less of them. Thanks for your help.

motjes2


I have not found anything else, but lowering the sharpness. To do that for dish only lower SHOF for that input.

strike,

Send us the tickets and I'm on the way.:D

NEEED SIMPLE STEPS THRU REMOTE TO ACCESS SERVICE SCREEN PUSH ?

SimRacer,

The service manual is a big help at understanding how the memory locations in the TV are organized. Unfortunately, the details of what each location does is very limited. Information on the LCD projector settings are totally missing. The manual does contain detailed schematics.

The manual only provides detailed instructions on Diagnostics, Operating the Service Menu, Sub Color/Sub Hue, Hi-Level/Cut-Off, White Level, Vertical Stripe, Sub Bright, Screen Center and Favorites.

I have included part of the information on operating the service menu and screen centering and I found another parameter (VCOL) that is not listed in the manual at all that helps the geometry.

The PIC-BOOST category is the only one that describes the function of each item. Unfortunately the manual does not tell you what they do. That is what the link I provided is for. It lists what each parameter in PIC-BOOST does in great detail and how to change it. I have not found anything like it for any other category. So changes to those have been educated guesses based on the item name.

onandoff,

Did my PM work?

Thanks UMR!!

umr, thank you very much for posting your hard work!! I have implemented your satellite enhancing tips on my video 1 (satellite and tivo) with great improvement. Do you recommend doing the same changes on all inputs? (i.e. dvd-video 6, and digital cable/x-box video 5)

I have compiled the GWII settings in a file (with umr's permission). Read this thread from the beginning so that you may implement the changes. Also, if anyone knows how to get rid of the service menu without turning the tv off, please post.

Thanks...

P.S. This is the 12/9/02 revision to the pdf file....

To download this file please go to Page 4 of this thread. There was some problem downloading from here. Thanks.

12/17/02: moved the file from page 4 to page 6...

1/12/03: Latest revision is on page 13...

1/29/03: Latest revision is on page 15

1/31/03: From now on the File is called "GWXBR Tweaks". The current version is 4.0 and it is posted on page 16 of this thread.

Great job, motjes2 !! You have taken Shakespeare's prose and converted it to pdf.

umr, udaman!

Don't give me all the credit. Umr, also worked on the file and he is the one who has spent all his time tweaking the set.

Umr, do you think the original settings are universal for every set within each model or are they different. Do you think it will be a good idea to add the original settings (at least for the service menu) just in case someone messes up his/her tv. What do you think?

I'll be interested to know where the 50" & 60" differ in the original service menu settings.

motjes2, Great chart, thank you.

Why don't you add original values to your chart as well?

UMR, you da man!

Noticed on UMR's settings looking at chart dvd is using composite input I thought component input was best for video?

Thanks for the chart, this begins to explain things for this RPTV newbie.

One question I do have, that the chart seems to point out:

Are menu settings (Brightness, sharpness, hue, etc, the stuff you can do during normal operations) linked to the type of input rather than which input jack one is using?

In other words all S-Video (for example), uses the same settings regardless which video input jack is being used. I won't be able to have one set of settings for a Sat dish using S-Video and one set of settings for a VCR using S-Video, correct?


Trying to understand my options prior to purchasing, thanks for the patience

Originally posted by ted08721
Noticed on UMR's settings looking at chart dvd is using composite input I thought component input was best for video?

That has to be a typo !

Composite is a typo. We missed that one.

I have been playing with different Gamma tables and currently prefer 0 for GAMM. The gamma function still looks a little low at about 2.2, but it doesn't look right if you try and boost it with the variable gamma function.

Boosting the gamma helps B&W material and removes some of that illuminated black look.

SimRacer,

There are multiple ways of adjusting those parameters. You have four user menu modes available that are toggled by the user and not input dependent. There are also service menu adjustments for each of those modes based on input RF, Video, Component 480i, Component 480p, Component 720p, Component 1080i and DVI.


So you can have four sets of settings per input type listed above if you are willing to toggle the picture mode (Pro, Vivid...). If you do not want to toggle modes and stick with Pro only then each of the above input types can have different settings.

motjes2,

I have no idea if other sets original settings are the same as mine. I do know some of the original settings in my set did not match the service manual. Based on comments I have read about Sony's LCD projectors it is likely that each sets LCD projector has been individually calibrated for white balance to some extent.

Having a complete reference of original settings would be nice, but I bought the service manual to simplify this. I don't plan on typing my original settings in the spreadsheet at this time.

Umr,

I have edited the pdf file. It should read "Component" now. May I publish my original settings (60") or someone else who has a 50"?

I have found a feature that I am using that some others may find useful. Category 2170P-2 allows you to change the remote control reset values for each mode. I have done this so if someone changes my settings from the user menu I can immediately return to my calibrated values. Here are the item names and values I am using for PRO mode; UPCG (63), UBRG (19), UCOL (25), UHUE (32), USHP (27), UTMP (0). To set these go to the view where you change the value and count the ticks from the left and subtract one.

I have also decided to stick with GAMM=0 for all inputs.

Sub picture SPIC in category 2170P-4 is also useful for boosting the whites a little. Be careful about going too far or the light grays may shift colors. The light grays shifted to red on some test patterns with SPIC too high. I increased SPIC from 8 to 12 on Video 1-4 and from 11 to 12 on 480i and 10 to 15 on DVI. This seems to improve the available contrast a little which you need after increasing the gamma from about 2.0 to 2.2.

motjes2,

Please post your settings.

Anyone tried a computer hooked up to the dvi port? Hows the text look is it sharp and readable from a distance like on the dlp? Shipping company is calling tomrow to pick up my dlp for return but the computer via dvi is one thing ill miss on the samsung.

JamesElrod

With the tweaks for eliminating the edge enhancement this set looks as sharp as the 507 on test patterns. I would assume it should be very similar on displaying PC material.

umr,
This has probably already been asked and answered but I'll ask it again as I can't find anything on the numerous posts.

What is the native resolution of this set? What conversion does it do with 480i, 480P, 720P and 1080i signals? If you can select the format with your STB what is optimum?

Thanks for all your hard work in answering questions and tweaking this set. I had the HLM507 and just wasn't happy given the shortfalls and am close to purchasing the 50" GW.

JamesElrod, be aware that hooking a pc up to this thing is apparently a pain. Many have not gotten above 540 res and 720 pretty much being the max with a good amount of overscan. Do a search for GWII and DVI and you should find plenty of info.

Jason

Starting with umr's settings, I have been able to get rid of 95% artifacts coming from Dish Network signal on the 60". I was able to watch NBA basketball on TNT, College Football on Espn 2, Hockey on Espn and Espnews (this channel was unwatchable before). The locals are looking better and now I can use wide zoom without seeing a lot of the artifacts. The settings that I changed were very close to umr's so if you own a 60", there should no problem tweaking the set further. As a matter of fact, I can say that the signal looks free of artifacts in 4:3 mode.

The NBA LP I did not check since there was no game tonight. The movies channels look good and the locals got the most improvements.

Originally posted by LVS
What is the native resolution of this set? What conversion does it do with 480i, 480P, 720P and 1080i signals? If you can select the format with your STB what is optimum?

The native resolution is 1366x768. Being a fixed pixel display everything will ultimately be converted to that resolution. My STB outputs 1080i and not 720p so I can't compare the two, but I suppose math would say that 720p would be less work for the scaler. 1080i looks just fine to me, though.

6

LVS,

It is hard for me to compare 1080i & 720p because the Samsung is very slow to switch resolutions. I have done a little comparison and it was difficult to tell a difference. They both looked very good.

I have chosen 1080i to try and take advantage of the sets extra resolution when 1080i is available. I also don't think scaling/deinterlacing is a weakness of this TV so in reality the set will display 768p avoiding interlacing artifacts.

Overscan changes your perception on what native really means though.

For example my set has about 6% overscan counting the top and bottom of the screen:

For 1080i it works out to...

1080 *0.94 = 1015 lines that need to be displayed.

1015*100/768 = 132% of the available verticle resolution

For 720p it works out to...

720*0.94 = 677 lines to display

677*100/768 = 88% of the available verticle resolution

Here's some more info I have gleaned:

You can avoid powering down the set when going to and from the service menu if you hit power again within a few seconds. When you hit the power button the light does not actually turn off immediately. You can go back and forth if you are quick.

I did a simple test with my camera's light meter using the log grayscale ramps on AVIA and it appears that GAMMA=0 is close to 2.2.

The color detail on my set was improved by reducing the chroma delay. This parameter is in category PIC-BOOST3 and the item is CDLY. My original values were 4 & 7 and my current values for S-Video and component are 0. This can be verified on AVIA with the CY timing pattern or by looking at a menu page for colors on vertical lines not lining up with the luminance channel. My set and DVD player were off about one vertical line width. This is a subtle, but noticeable improvement in resolution.

I have made similar changes to the ones umr posted here. The changes are noticable and improved in dvd and progresive game PQ. The improvements in satellite, cable and non-progressive games are dramatic. I considered SD stuff to be watchable before, but the difference is extremely improved now. The whole family noticed, especially in satellite PPV. I greatly appreciate this thread umr and the others that have responded and created support files. Damn fine job.

dracos2, can you post your settings. I am especially interested in the ones pertaining to progressive game PQ.

I have revised the pdf file. Here are the changes included:

(1) The latest revision includes umr's latest changes to categories 2170P-4, PIC-BOOST3 & 2170P-2.

(2) my original settings for my 60" (s-video only so far).

(3) Compiled a set of questions that have been asked in the thread and put it under FAQ. I will keep adding them.

Please feel free to comment or point out any mistakes...

Thanks.

1/12/03: Latest Revision on page 13...

umr, I connected my Panasonic HS2 to video 6 and turn the progressive signal on. On the service menu there is something called WSL and it keeps changing value. I noticed that for interlace (480i) it was contant at 0. What does it mean?

motjes2

I have no progressive inputs just DVI and interlaced, and the manual does not describe what WSL means so I have no clue about what is going on.

Thanks for updating your pdf file. Could you send me a copy of the spreadsheet I would like to make a few additions/changes.

Dear UMR,

Just thought I would take a break from enjoying my 50' Wega and thank you for all the work you have done in identifying tweaks to improve the picture. The tweaks to the picture detail are great. What a great forum. My thanks to the the Forum managers as well.

Richard

Good Info, thanks Guys for all your work !!!

Thanks for sharing your tweaks umr (and motjes2 for the PDF file), the work is much appreciated.

I noticed that Genesis Microchip has the data sheet up for the gm7030 chip (http://www.genesis-microchip.com/main.phtml?fid=30&mid=33&bsrc=bproducts.jpg&ihref=products%2Fgm7030.html) that the GWII uses. I don't know if there is much information to be had in the document, but perhaps there is something in there that corresponds to service menu entries.

6

How long will it take to do the changes in the Service Menu? I do not
want to miss the ball games today, so if it takes a while I will have to wait
another day.

UMR, motjes2, all,

Thanks SO MUCH for all your efforts. My GWII has been in for 2 weeks. I have ordered the service manual and it will arrive in a few days. I have been reviewing all the suggestions but I have a few questions. First, my set-up:

- GWII - 50"
- SAT-HD200 (Component Video Connected to GWII as Video 6 through B&K 307)
- SAT-A65 (Connected to GWII as Video 1)
- DVD -Denon 3800 Progressive (Connected also to Video 6--Through B&K 307)
- Cable TV (Standard Cable, no converter directly into the GWII)

80-90% of what I watch is Standard DirectTV Channels (the remainder is DVD or HDNET and 509, 543 are excellent too).

Questions:

1. Normally, I leave the SAT-200 in 1080I Mode, should I do this or let it auto switch (Variable 1), in which case, will there be seperate tweaks for each resolution (1080I, 720P, 480P)?

Note: the SAT200 only outputs 480I if you set it to Video 1/2 (S-Video) which is connected to Video 1 (This means that the GWII is receiving 480P or higher except in this mode. And it means that the Cinnemotion on the GWII is off unless you use the Video 1/2 setting of the SAT200.

2. Is there a way for the GWII to display the input mode (1080I, 720P, etc) in normal operation (I thought the KF-60DX100 did this)?

3. Have you played with the Fan Speed in the SM?


Thanks in advance. I'm sure I'll have more questions once I get the SM.

MDM

Would a DVDO iScan Line Doubler help on all inputs into sony GW2 50xbr other than HDTV componet that looks fine. Would the DVDO help clean up compressed regular sat. channels and clear up artifacts so Nba games look detailed and clear. Still having poblems getting into service menu I have tried (Display) push , (#5 channel) push, (Vol +) push last step push power button on remote............. I do this knowing Im on video #1 with sat coming in thru my rxv1 yamaha , I just get view of the picture of sat no service guide comes up. What am I missing? I like umr and other posts but I wish I could get started. Please some one out there help me email me your phone numbers and will be so thank ful. Signed desperate and feeling Dumb.

Originally posted by mdm_boulder
UMR, motjes2, all,
.....
Questions:

1. Normally, I leave the SAT-200 in 1080I Mode, should I do this or let it auto switch (Variable 1), in which case, will there be seperate tweaks for each resolution (1080I, 720P, 480P)?

Note: the SAT200 only outputs 480I if you set it to Video 1/2 (S-Video) which is connected to Video 1 (This means that the GWII is receiving 480P or higher except in this mode. And it means that the Cinnemotion on the GWII is off unless you use the Video 1/2 setting of the SAT200.

2. Is there a way for the GWII to display the input mode (1080I, 720P, etc) in normal operation (I thought the KF-60DX100 did this)?

3. Have you played with the Fan Speed in the SM?


Thanks in advance. I'm sure I'll have more questions once I get the SM.

MDM

1. I leave my SIR-T165 in 1080i mode for this very reason. Some of the memory locations are different for each resolution. I have been experimenting with different resolutions on my STB and I prefer 1080i for 1080i sources and it does not seem to make much difference on others to let it up convert.

2. Not that I know of.

3. Yes. I have been able to change the fan speed, but I am not willing to risk lowering the fan speed to reduce the noise level.

Good luck!

Originally posted by onandoff
Would a DVDO iScan Line Doubler help on all inputs into sony GW2 50xbr other than HDTV componet that looks fine. Would the DVDO help clean up compressed regular sat. channels and clear up artifacts so Nba games look detailed and clear. Still having poblems getting into service menu I have tried (Display) push , (#5 channel) push, (Vol +) push last step push power button on remote............. I do this knowing Im on video #1 with sat coming in thru my rxv1 yamaha , I just get view of the picture of sat no service guide comes up. What am I missing? I like umr and other posts but I wish I could get started. Please some one out there help me email me your phone numbers and will be so thank ful. Signed desperate and feeling Dumb.

I doubt that the DVDO is going to make much difference on cleaning up those compression artifacts. I believe the SM tweaks would help much more than the DVDO.

Hello, I have Road Runner Cable in NYC with HD. Will these tweaks work for me? The HD shows are great, the regular cable is fair. The Digital channels are the best other than HD (HBO etc.) Thanks

Bill

Bronsteen,

Yes.

Thank you sir for all your great work and your answer. I will try them when I get home to my 60 this weekend. Would and inline amp. from Radio Shack also help, hurt, or do nothing? Thanks again.

Bill

Bronsteen

I removed my Radio Shack in-line amp with this set and it did not seem to hurt. It might help, hurt or do nothing if you add one. I thought mine was in the hurt category.

Sorry for being so wishy-washy.

UMR


When I set up my tv and adjusted Pic Boost 2 PKNG from 25 to 1 the PQ got real soft. I tested a lot of settings and found 16 to be the best. Just thought I would let you know. Otherwise all the other settings worked great. I also changed the RYR, RYB, GYR, GYB settings for the color decoder check and the colors are right on. My settings are also different than yours.

The tweaks worked great .Thanks to UMR keep the the news flowing wish I can use the full mode instead of 4:3 on regular sat and cable but I know changes might be coming. Give UMR credit for his posts he is a four star.

Ed,

I too thought that at first, but with the right source material PKNG at zero is amazing.

UMR,

For my set your Black level and white levels are much too high. I can't see either of the needle pulses in the AVIA tests. I dialed both back until I could see both. Do you advocate your settings over "proper" AVIA settings? I admit your settings would enhance black considerably. Also, I feel the sharpness is okay at 50% but I've been running it where you recommend and it looks fine. Also, my color decoder seems to push red more with your settings than it did with my old settings - perhaps it is because you use "warm" and I was using "neutral" before. Does anyone know which white balance gets us closest to standard? I haven't messed with the green and red levels but I plan on doing so tonight.

I've noticed that the PICBOOST2 stuff really really makes an incredible difference on DVD and HD. Attack of the Clones blew me away - background detail was so crisp and sharp - it was like looking at a different television. HD was much more CRT-like. One of the scenes in Se7en that I reported had bad diagonal stair-stepping has now cleaned up. This SM tweak is unreal. It is however a double edged sword. I now notice on some lesser standard-def cable channels a few macro blocks here and there. I think the original settings did much to hide this, but for the most part I love the way it looks now. My standard-def is coming in via component so I haven't used your composite/s-video settings.

Can't wait to try the PICBOOST3 stuff.


Thanks for all the hard work.


Ron

Latest Revision of the PDF file have been done and uploaded on this page see below. The revisions made:

(1) Historical data were deleted. I do not believe any changes to the settings were made.

(2) I input my original settings for 480i component and 480p component.

(3) Added more Questions to FAQ.

Good Luck to all.

motjes2.....for some reason, your pdf file is not updating via the link on page 2.
Will you please post the updated file in a new post on the current page?

thanks
dmk

That is very strange! Here it is. I will delete it from Page 2.

12/9/02 & 12/17/02 Revision of the PDF file.

Apparently there are problems with downloading the new one from here. I moved it page 6.

1/12/03: Latest Revision on Page 13...

1/29/03: Latest Revision is on Page 15...

1/31/03: From now on the File is called "GWXBR Tweaks". The current version is 4.0 and it is posted on page 16 of this thread.

That worked!!! Thank you.

motjes2, thank you for your pdf.

Here is the powerstrip setting which is most successful so far. I copied it from burble's post. It has no overscan, but resolution is 1184x666. Hmm, 666..... Devil's setting maybe.

PowerStrip timing parameters:
1184x666=1184,69,88,307,666,31,17,32,73764,336

Generic timing details for 1184x666:
HFP=69 HSW=88 HBP=307 kHz=45 VFP=31 VSW=17 VBP=32 Hz=60

Linux modeline parameters:
"1184x666" 73.764 1184 1253 1341 1648 666 697 714 746 +hsync +vsync

There are any options in service mode to bypass GWII's scaler?

Originally posted by UUronl
Also, my color decoder seems to push red more with your settings than it did with my old settings - perhaps it is because you use "warm" and I was using "neutral" before. Does anyone know which white balance gets us closest to standard? I haven't messed with the green and red levels but I plan on doing so tonight.

....One of the scenes in Se7en that I reported had bad diagonal stair-stepping has now cleaned up. This SM tweak is unreal.
Ron I, too, noticed that flesh tones were a bit red, and red items (shirts, etc.), had a strange redness to them. I swithced back to Neutral instead of Warm, and then I had to change settings based on that. At least I knew which settings to work with. Thanks, UMR.

I'm glad that that Se7en scene cleaned up. You know, I actually meant to re-check that very scene and then got sidetracked. I'll try to remember to check it tonight if I get a chance. I hope it's fixed on my TV as well.

Dave

Ron,

Thanks for the comments.

My settings were calibrated with AVIA, Video Essentials & THX Optimode. The differences in black levels are most probably one or more of the following:

1) Your DVD player is not putting black at 7.5 IRE and white at 100 IRE.
2) There is some variability TV to TV.
3) You have not implemented all of the white/black level tweaks on 2170P-2 & 2170P-4. The level settings on the user menu are not independent of these changes.

I really does not matter what your settings for picture, brightness, color and sharpness are numerically, but that they be accurate. That is why I suggest you use 2170P-2 to tweak each input to match your system.

The enhancement settings like PKNG are another matter. Someone might like it with a higher setting, but OSP=1 and PKNG=0 are the correct settings for accurate reproduction. You need to increase sharpness after they are changed though.

There are actually a couple of places you can change the white balance settings. One is in category 2170P-1 items 0-5 and items 9 & 10. The other place is on the LCD projector itself with items named B Gain, R Gain..., B Bias... and so on. I have played with this myself, but I am planning on using calibration equipment to set it for real. The warm color setting appears the closest to 6500k, but is probably more like 5500-6000k on my set.

My set has no red push with these settings. You should use AVIA to set your set properly if you think yours has red push.

The PIC-BOOST3 settings can be significant, but they were not as big as PIC-BOOST2 or the GAMM settings on my set.


Originally posted by UUronl
For my set your Black level and white levels are much too high. I can't see either of the needle pulses in the AVIA tests. I dialed both back until I could see both. Do you advocate your settings over "proper" AVIA settings? I admit your settings would enhance black considerably. Also, I feel the sharpness is okay at 50% but I've been running it where you recommend and it looks fine. Also, my color decoder seems to push red more with your settings than it did with my old settings - perhaps it is because you use "warm" and I was using "neutral" before. Does anyone know which white balance gets us closest to standard? I haven't messed with the green and red levels but I plan on doing so tonight.

I've noticed that the PICBOOST2 stuff really really makes an incredible difference on DVD and HD. Attack of the Clones blew me away - background detail was so crisp and sharp - it was like looking at a different television. HD was much more CRT-like. One of the scenes in Se7en that I reported had bad diagonal stair-stepping has now cleaned up. This SM tweak is unreal. It is however a double edged sword. I now notice on some lesser standard-def cable channels a few macro blocks here and there. I think the original settings did much to hide this, but for the most part I love the way it looks now. My standard-def is coming in via component so I haven't used your composite/s-video settings.

Can't wait to try the PICBOOST3 stuff.


Thanks for all the hard work.


Ron

netgo

I don't know how to bypass the scaler in the service menu. I also doubt it is possible since the set probably expects it needs to scale/deinterlace everything from either 1080i, 720p, 480p, or 480i to 768p.

I currently have a 60XBR800 on order so I can't answer this question because I don't have a manual. So, I thought one of you folks could answer it for me.

I recently read a report on the previous version (60DX100) GW1 system. In there the report stated that the GW1 would accept a 720p input but it would down convert it to 480p then upconvert that to 1080i. The result being the loss of 240 lines of resolution.

You guessed it, does a GWII do the same thing or does it convert 720p directly into 1080i?
:confused:

Originally posted by kwolfman
I currently have a 60XBR800 on order so I can't answer this question because I don't have a manual. So, I thought one of you folks could answer it for me.

I recently read a report on the previous version (60DX100) GW1 system. In there the report stated that the GW1 would accept a 720p input but it would down convert it to 480p then upconvert that to 1080i. The result being the loss of 240 lines of resolution.

You guessed it, does a GWII do the same thing or does it convert 720p directly into 1080i?
:confused:

This is not a problem with this set.

UMR,

Thanks for the response. I hadn't previously noticed the white level tweak in 2170P-4. I'll implement and recalibrate. Also, I didn't mean to imply that the decoder push was unexpected - I would expect the decoder push since I haven't calibrated my green and red yet - I mean if yours hadn't pushed you wouldn't have had to adjust them after setting blue saturation.

I presume you were using a digicam to determine the gamma? I'm not sure if mine does that - can you describe how and what you were using to measure the gamma?

Also, I haven't increased the sharpness setting yet - can't wait to try that to see what it looks like.

A question - to calibrate in 1080i - I have to feed it 1080i? I seem to remember now that when I was calibrating, the signal was being reported as 480p. I guess maybe the sharpness tweak isn't yet implemented for 1080i yet then?


Thanks,

Ron

UUronl,

You need to feed each input each resolution and check the settings for each one this would include 1080i, 720p, 480p and 480i. Some memory settings apply across all resolutions and some are resolution specific. I don't try to remember which are which. I just check them all. This is the only way to be sure you have every input and resolution set properly.

I was initially checking gamma with my light meter on the log grayscale in AVIA. My understanding is that this grayscale is setup for a gamma of 2.2 such that each square should be about 2 times different in illumination from the next (2x shutter speed @ same focal ratio). I plan on using my camera to take several photos at different shutter speeds and then convert them in photoshop to lab mode and measure the difference in the luma channel to give me a better estimate when I get a chance. Some time fairly soon I should have some measurements from a spectroradiometer, high quality light meter and accupel signal generator.

I have read that many on this thread have improvements on SDTV and Tivo inputs. The images "look better" after making these modifications.

What components of the image got "better"?

I seem to have a problem with the fidelity of the image when watching anything with fast moving objects (or fast pans). Artifacts and blurry images are all that I see. Will these SM edits fix this issue?

bsimeral,

The user menu adjustments that help the most with satellite are DRC Reality 1 and Clarity 100. The service menu adjustments that help the most with clarity are the adjustments under PIC-BOOST2, PIC-BOOST3 and the GAMM/BLK adjustment under 2170-4.

The size of the screen is itself a problem, but the low factory gamma tends to emphasize the MPEG artifacts. The other adjustments will help, but are more subtle.

Hello everyone, newbie here so please don't mind the questions. I have been reading these forums for the past couple of weeks, and we have finally put the order in for a 50" GWII! I was just curious about the calibration dvds that I have been reading about. Is there a certain one that is recommended over the others? The other thing that I was curious about was the tweaks that UMR has so kindly shared.... are those tweaks to be done after the calibration dvd is run? Just trying to get prepared for our new GWII!! Thanks everyone!

I have my HD TWC NYC going into input 5. My DVD is going into 6. Should I just make them match your DVI settings?

Thanks

Originally posted by Bronsteen
I have my HD TWC NYC going into input 5. My DVD is going into 6. Should I just make them match your DVI settings?

Thanks

Maybe. You will need to see where the black levels and picture controls fall out. I would use the THX Optimizer or Optimode screens to help set those.

Originally posted by Livo
Hello everyone, newbie here so please don't mind the questions. I have been reading these forums for the past couple of weeks, and we have finally put the order in for a 50" GWII! I was just curious about the calibration dvds that I have been reading about. Is there a certain one that is recommended over the others? The other thing that I was curious about was the tweaks that UMR has so kindly shared.... are those tweaks to be done after the calibration dvd is run? Just trying to get prepared for our new GWII!! Thanks everyone!

I prefer AVIA if you are only going to get one. The color filters included with it are necessary to set your color decoder.

The tweaks are actually intended to be done before and during your calibration. The list is in the order they are in the TV with the values I am using. Your settings may be something different in some cases (noted by using a test image).

The order I use goes something like this:

PIC-BOOST2

PIC-BOOST3 - with Avia or image similar to CNN logo

2170P-4 (GAMM/BLK)

H POS ADJ* - with THX screen alignment image
PLL-C* - with THX screen alignment image

USER Menu Settings* - with AVIA or THX Optimizer

2170P-4 (SPIC) - with THX picture/contrast display

USER Menu Settings* - with AVIA and/or THX Optimizer

2170P-4 (Color Decoder)* - with Avia
User Menu (Hue)* - with Avia (if it changes go back to color decoder)

2170P-2 (reset values)*- copy settings from User Menu into reset settings. Remember to start counting at zero.

2170P-2 (custom values) - adjust each input to the desired appearance under PRO mode with these values.

*-only for first (DVD) input. Use these values for all other inputs.

Originally posted by Livo
Hello everyone, newbie here so please don't mind the questions. I have been reading these forums for the past couple of weeks, and we have finally put the order in for a 50" GWII! I was just curious about the calibration dvds that I have been reading about. Is there a certain one that is recommended over the others? The other thing that I was curious about was the tweaks that UMR has so kindly shared.... are those tweaks to be done after the calibration dvd is run? Just trying to get prepared for our new GWII!! Thanks everyone!

I had/have Sound&Vision Home Theater Tune-Up ($19.95), but found AVIA (the "big brother" of the S&V one -- although S&V has DTS testings and some newer charts, apparently, per Guy Kuo who designed it) for $22.99 used and I AM GLAD I BOUGHT IT!! It has so much more re: resolution, overscan, etc., etc. The competition is Video Essentials (current version out of production while they wait to come out with their new HD version), but VE only has a blue filter, I understand. So, pay the $49.95 retail ($40 or so at Amazon) for AVIA and get it. You will want it if you want to get really technical with your TV -- lots of different patterns, IRE levels, etc. -- or maybe see if your local video store has VE or AVIA for rent and rent them both and decide for yourself.

FYI, I have an old Kodak pocket master photoguide, and it has colored red (25 (A)), green (58 (B)) and blue (47 (C5)) filters for various B&W photographic purposes -- they seem to be the same tint as the AVIA filters, but not as dense, so I don't know if they'd substitute, esp. since some of the AVIA color tests have you measure whether the primary colors on the TV are lighter or darker through the filter than your target shade.

Originally posted by eweiss
...FYI, I have an old Kodak pocket master photoguide, and it has colored red (25 (A)), green (58 (B)) and blue (47 (C5)) filters for various B&W photographic purposes -- they seem to be the same tint as the AVIA filters, but not as dense, so I don't know if they'd substitute, esp. since some of the AVIA color tests have you measure whether the primary colors on the TV are lighter or darker through the filter than your target shade.

My understanding is the correct wratten filters are 99 (green), 92 (red) and 98 (blue). I heard the Kodak green filter is better than the one supplied with AVIA.

Well, I tweaked more last night. Didn't ever feed it 1080i during calibration, but I can tell at least some if not all of the settings I changed carried over.

My color decoder was worse off than I thought - I needed to dial both green variables down to zero to get it right. Green is still ultra vibrant at this setting - in the Sopranos HD last night the raft he was on in the pool was translucent green and it looked incredible. Red needed some tweaking to get dialed in, but now flesh tones look ultra-realistic.

I noticed when I was setting the SPIC value that it would revert back to 10 after I had increased it to 15. I committed the changes with a write - hopefully this keeps it at 15. While using the THX Optimode tests I didn't notice any discoloration of light gray - I actually wish you could go higher than 15.

I changed the gamma from 4 to 0 and tweaked the color decoder again. Also recalibrated the black and white levels with AVIA.

I think some of the weirdness in my settings has to do with my DVD player - I think it is too fancy for its own good. It has this OSD that allows for the same picture adjustments - even gamma. I used the "normal" setting on the DVD player for my calibrations, but who knows what this causes the DVD player to output.

Anyway, I can report that not only does DVD look amazing, HD is now tons better than it used to be. Last night "The Sixth Day" was on Showtime HD. I had seen it briefly in HD before and had noticed edge artifacts - something I had noticed on some other HD feeds and channels as well. The artifacts were now completely gone and the picture was nothing less than stunning. Also with the new gamma curve and enhanced contrast, the blacks were darker and not as illuminated - tons better. NYPD Blue HD looked awesome and Jay Leno took top honors. Previously, I could see edge artifacts with Leno. Last night it was so clear and sharp that I thought he was standing in front of a bluescreen - that's how defined he was from the background. I couldn't get over how perfect the image was. I can't thank umr enough for these tweaks, they have made my TV viewing experience amazing. I'll check tonight to make sure all the settings are carried over into 1080i.



Thanks,

Ron

Umr,

I could not wait any longer and put an order for a dish 6000 model. I got the receiver yesterday. Hooked it up and activated it. I was able to watch HD discovery, SHO, & HBO for about 30 minutes before the receiver went bad. After 20 to 30 minutes of watching (after spending all the time with Dish Network advanced support to activate it and download the latest software), the receiver started outputing steady straight vertical lines through the component and s-video output. So I am getting a new receiver by tomorrow.

My question. The dish 6000 model does not have DVI just component. Should I use the same component tweaks that you used or should I play with it until I am satisfied with it. I connected it to video 5 input and the HD looked excellent. I did not have a lot of time to play with the SD signal from the receiver. I have heard that the receiver upscale the SD signal to 1080i as well (I do not know if this correct) but it seems to have a better image than my 721 PVR dish unit. I will check again tomorrow again when I get the new one.

Originally posted by motjes2
Umr,

I could not wait any longer and put an order for a dish 6000 model. I got the receiver yesterday. Hooked it up and activated it. I was able to watch HD discovery, SHO, & HBO for about 30 minutes before the receiver went bad. After 20 to 30 minutes of watching (after spending all the time with Dish Network advanced support to activate it and download the latest software), the receiver started outputing steady straight vertical lines through the component and s-video output. So I am getting a new receiver by tomorrow.

My question. The dish 6000 model does not have DVI just component. Should I use the same component tweaks that you used or should I play with it until I am satisfied with it. I connected it to video 5 input and the HD looked excellent. I did not have a lot of time to play with the SD signal from the receiver. I have heard that the receiver upscale the SD signal to 1080i as well (I do not know if this correct) but it seems to have a better image than my 721 PVR dish unit. I will check again tomorrow again when I get the new one.

I do not have a 6000, but I would guess that the component input tweaks for my DVP-S7000 should be close to right for the 6000.

Finally! I got HD signal from Dish. The only thing I can say is WOW!!! I will posts some pics (in another thread) when I get a digital camera.

Here is some new information for the brave at heart:

I have been playing with adjusting the white balance on my set and am finally happy with the results. You may find the colors/blacks more accurate after doing this.

I adjusted items under 2170P-1 to do this. The items were GDRV, BDRV, BCUT. The final values for these are GDRV=44 from 48, BDRV=39 from 48, BCUT=22 from 23. This also resulted in a small change in the user menu color to UCOL=27 from 25. A color decoder value also changed GYR=7 from 6.

The method I used follows:

1. Place a bright gray window (70-90 IRE) on the screen from AVIA or VE.
2. Go to category 2170P-2 and item RGBS and set the value to 6 (turns off blue)
3. Adjust GDRV until the window looks pure yellow (not green or red tinted).
I record the values where it looks slightly green and red and then try the values near the middle of those.
4. Place a grayscale ramp (100-0 IRE) on the screen.
5. Adjust GCUT and/or RCUT if you see a problem with low IRE yellows. This is difficult to judge.
6. Go back to step one if you changed GCUT or RCUT.
7. Go to category 2170P-2 and item RGBS and set the value to 7 (all panels on)
8. Change the gray window to a value of around 70-50 IRE.
Do not use an IRE value less than 30 because of probable problems with the panels not tracking well at low levels.
9. Set BDRV to zero and then increase BDRV until the screen just looks gray and stop.
I use a photographic gray card with either indirect outside lighting or a 6500K light source to judge this.
Be very careful not to make the grays overly blue.
Many people think 6500k grays are slightly sepia toned.
10. Place a grayscale ramp (100-0 IRE) on the screen.
11. Adjust BCUT if you see a problem with low IRE grays.
12. Go back to step 8 if you changed BCUT
13. Readjust the color decoder if you have done this previously.
14. Write the results to memory and copy to other inputs if you like the results if not just change
the input and everything will go back to normal.

Edited to include changes from being able to turn off blue LCD panel.

Just when I thought I'd finished!! Good work my friend, good work.


Ron

UUronl,

This was not a minor change in the picture. The amount of blue was dropped dramatically and the reduction in green is noticable also.

umr, and other gw II tweakers. How much time should someone reserve to implement all of these tweaks? Add in some have never snooped around in the sm.

I changed the chroma delay, gama and "smart peaking" settings last night. Took me around 10 minutes.

strike,

I am probably the wrong person to ask since I have spent several hours trying to figure this thing out. I would guess it could all be done in 20 to 30 minutes if you don't have many inputs with different resolutions.

Umr revised the PDF file. I delete it from page 4 see below...

The date on the pdf when viewed is 12-10-02 9:39am. Is this the updated pdf or is AVS having the same problem accepting the new replacement file?\
Thanks for all you guys efforts!!!
Pete in Louisina

I don't know how you are seeing that date. However, if the file has the recommended procedure for implementing the tweaks at the beginning it is the new file.

The link also works from the first post I made as well.

Here it is....

(see page 7 for another update 12/18/2002)

1/29/03: Latest revision is on Page 15...

1/31/03: From now on the File is called "GWXBR Tweaks". The current version is 4.0 and it is posted on page 16 of this thread.

That works. For some reason the original did not update from page 4. I was refering to the date that shows on the pdf pages. Again - THANKS.
Pete in Louisiana

Thanks much umr and motjes2. i bought the GW 50" totally unseen, and it definitely needed the tweaking. Will have to find a copy of Avia, hopefully for rent somewhere, as the latest massaging of the unit has made a couple of my most watched channels glow. Like a person's skin is kinda hot, or something. Other stations, not so bad. Episode ii looks pretty damned amazing, though. Can't wait to get a Hi-Def signal on this baby:)

Oops. i think my isp was acting up. Sorry for the multiples.

Here's a new one I have been looking for and finally found. You can turn off panels individually. This allows you to avoid the problems with inaccuracies in the color filters supplied with AVIA and improves on the grayscale adjustment procedure where you are trying to shutdown the blue.

The only hitch appears to be that settings 3-1 appear to have some sort of bias to the signals going to the panels. The blacks on my borders are lighter in those modes than the others. However, it does not appear to change the decoder settings because blue was dead on and I believe that filter is very good.

Category: 2170P-2
Item: RGBS #12

7=All on (Normal)
6=Blue off (Great for the grayscale adjustment in our pdf)
5=Green off
4=Red only (Use instead of red filter for color decoder)
3=Red off
2=Green only (Use instead of green filter for color decoder)
1=Blue only (Use instead of blue filter for color decoder)
0=All off

We'll need to update the pdf again with this new item and improvements to the procedure by using these.

I have spent a lot of time with my set. I keep tinkering, and each time I feel a lot better about the settings. I think part of it is probably due to the lamp maturing, part is due to my unfamiliarity with AVIA, and lastly my tendency to tweak.

I found that the color decoder test in Avia got me close, but the individual color saturation tests helped me dial it in dead on. Just like the blue saturation test, there is a red and green saturation test. Once I used these tests, my color improved dramatically. I'll try the latest tweak just to make sure I have everything optimized.



Thanks,

Ron

umr,
Great job continuing to tweak this set and passing your knowledge on to others that are interested.

UUronl,

Being able to turn the panels on and off is a great aid in setting the color decoder accurately. The filters supplied with AVIA are not perfect because of leakage from the other colors. It is also nice to not have to hold a little filter over your eyes.

I'm still trying to decide on what TV to purchase, the GWII is included on the short list. A question for y'all that tweaked the GWII:

How much of a difference do the Umr changes make? Is it "things look just a little better", or more like "wow! this is an entirely different picture"? Or maybe somewhere in between? I realize this is subjective, but some idea of what's possible with this set would be appreciated.

I've spent quite a bit of time looking at the 'original' GWII in the store and wonder how much its weaknesses can be improved. In particular that means the black levels, and 'impact' the image makes (which probably has a lot to do with contrast and thus black levels).

- Rob -

Originally posted by Rop
I'm still trying to decide on what TV to purchase, the GWII is included on the short list. A question for y'all that tweaked the GWII:

How much of a difference do the Umr changes make? Is it "things look just a little better", or more like "wow! this is an entirely different picture"? Or maybe somewhere in between? I realize this is subjective, but some idea of what's possible with this set would be appreciated.

I've spent quite a bit of time looking at the 'original' GWII in the store and wonder how much its weaknesses can be improved. In particular that means the black levels, and 'impact' the image makes (which probably has a lot to do with contrast and thus black levels).

- Rob -

Everyone please comment because I have spent so much time with this it is hard to remember what it looked like before.

Here is my two cents though:

- Improvement in detail on component inputs with high quality sources is probably a wow level improvement.
- Improvement in detail on s-video or low quality sources is probably in the little better category.
- Improvement in detail on DVI input is zero.
- Improvement on black levels is some where between a wow and a little level of improvement on all inputs.
- Improvement in usability of set from different levels for different inputs is for me a wow level of improvement.
- Improvement in color accuracy is probably between a little and a wow level for all inputs.
- Improvement in geometry was a little level of improvement.

umr:

Have you thought about submitting your tweaks to Sony as a dissertation for a doctorate in TV Tweakology?

Settings are incredibly important - just changing from Standard to Vivid on the GW 50" at the local tweeter made it look identical to the CRT RPTVs right beside it. It was playing the Penguins game on HDNet, and the black jerseys were deep black - as deep as the CRTs. Actually, the resolution looked much better on the GW. The black level probably had much to do with the lighting in the store, I'm going to scrutinize this later and determine if there isn't a better way to light this thing for black level.

I can attest that the picture looks amazingly 3D with the tweaks. I have HD, and the picture is stunning when calibrated properly. Also, good DVD transfers are close in many regards to HD picture. The tweaks make a huge difference over out-of-the-box.


Ron

Originally posted by eweiss
umr:

Have you thought about submitting your tweaks to Sony as a dissertation for a doctorate in TV Tweakology?

No. I assume they know much more than me about this TV and chose the settings they chose for marketing reasons. I would also guess that if they cared they would be reading sites like this anyways.

Here is the lastest file...


Update: There is an updated file on page 13 of this thread.

1/29/03: Latest revision is on Page 15...

1/31/03: From now on the File is called "GWXBR Tweaks". The current version is 4.0 and it is posted on page 16 of this thread.

umr & motjes2: Thank you for sharing the tweak doc with us.

Since I was unable to enter the SM on my 60xbr800, I've
decided to hire someone to perform the tweaks
(I'm a newbie to the world of sophisticated video).

What type of business should I contact to find a qualified tech?

Originally posted by menergy
umr: Thank you for sharing the tweak doc with us.

Since I was unable to enter the SM on my 60xbr800, I've
decided to hire someone to perform the tweaks.

What type of business should I contact to find a qualified tech?

The 50/60 XBR is sometimes tricky about entering the service menu.

Make sure you have selected the "TV" for the device (using the remote key that switches between Sat/TV/DVD-VCR)

Turn off the TV (large green Power button, top right).

Hit in this order and within 1 second of each other:

Display
5
Volume +
Power (large green button, top right)

If the red light comes on and after a flash or two you hear a quiet "click", your TV should come on shortly with the Green Service Menu codes all over the screen. If the red light continues to flash, hit the power button again to turn off the TV and start over.

I do not know if this is too much to ask but it will be good to have images of before and after tweaks. If somebody can post these please mention the input, the source, and equipment that is feeding the TV. Just a suggestion...

My first impression when I applied the tweaks to the video 1 (s-video) was that I could see satellite (dish - 721 PVR) much better. Right now, I do not remember how it looked before.

Originally posted by motjes2
I do not know if this is too much to ask but it will be good to have images of before and after tweaks. If somebody can post these please mention the input, the source, and equipment that is feeding the TV. Just a suggestion...

My first impression when I applied the tweaks to the video 1 (s-video) was that I could see satellite (dish - 721 PVR) much better. Right now, I do not remember how it looked before.

As someone pointed out earlier, digital photos of the GW II on this forum made blacks look much darker and deeper than they are in reality on this TV. It may be difficult for posted before-and-after pictures to accurately reflect/display the true before-and-after differences, IMHO.

I believe it is possible to have the same black reference in before and after shots. This could be done in photoshop using the black border of the set as a reference point using curves and manual exposure settings. I personally don't feel like spending the effort to go back to factory defaults and carefully controlling the pictures.

I applied the UM tweaks to yet another showroom GWXBR today with outstanding results. I have decided that there must have been something wrong with the last couple of sets I've seen, since the settings didn't help there at all -- or perhaps it was the source material. I got a picture that was exceeded only by the Pioneer Elites. Yes, it was flatter than the Elites, but if the GW was the only set in the room I'm not sure I'd always notice.

Thanks for the info you guys are providing. I'm still trying to decide if the sales reps would have a cow if I broke into the service menu....:D

UMR, others -

This is a bit off topic, but since these tweaks require you to look at test patterns I figure I'd be asking the right people. How much misconvergence are you seeing on your GWIIs? Throw up some of the patterns on AVIA and look for magenta edging to the left and green edging to the right. Also, if you could note the amount of variance across the display from left to right/up and down. Mine is at worst 1.5 pixels on the far left of the display and zero pixels at the far right.

Scheduling a 3rd party tech from Tweeter to come and inspect, but I'm wondering if they get any better than this... If not I may just keep the one I have, or try to work a direct swap for the Panny DLP... :)


Thanks,

Ron

I am seeing about 1.0 - 1.5 pixels fairly consistantly across the screen. Green on lthe left, magenta on the right. I am going to talk to my retailer, probably tomorrow.

I see very little chromatic aberration (color fringing) on my set maybe 0.5 pixel. I do see a faint ghost image about 4 pixels offset to the right whose intensity changes with the pattern intensity. It looks like a drop shadow effect. None of these effects are noticeable at my normal viewing distance.

The drop shadow is observable at about 5-6 feet. The color fringing is observable at about 1 foot.

I'd like to thank UMR and motjes2 for making these tweaks available. I've got my 60'' GWII for 2 weeks now and those tweaks really help in bringing out the image details and make my analog cable channels good-looking. Star Wars Episode II looks incredible on it.

This may be off topic for this thread (sorry! i'm a newbie here) but recently after I start watching some more DVD movies, I discovered that the 480p output from my Panasonic RP62 actually looks worse than 480i output.

I've been using 480p for all the tweaking and movie-watching until I saw "Panic Room". The walls in the background just looks blurry, and 2D like, just like an oil paingting in a way. And after I disabled the progressive output, the problem went away. It's even worse when watching those making-of-documentaries(i.e.: Blade II disc 2) on the DVD using 480p. It just looks like a bad OTA channel.

Since when you feed 480p to GWII, the "Advaced Video Control" (CineMotion and DRC) gets disabled automatically, the only thing that makes sense to me is that the scaler does a bad job scaling a 480p to GWII's native resolution.

Does the same thing happen to anyone else?

Is there any settings in the service menu that can help improve the 480p PQ?

thanks a lot!

sonygrandwega,

Actually it is probably not the scaler since the set must scale everything to its native format. I would guess it is your DVD player since many people are seeing excellent images with progressive and interlaced inputs. I would suggest you get a reference quality player like a Sony DVP-S9000 or DVP-S7000 to go with this excellent RPTV.

A fellow I know has been testing some Panasonic players with high quality test equipment and he has been very surprised how poorly the outputs match the standards.

I see a little ghosting like UMR described but it's not noticeable at any normal viewing distance.

sonygrandwega: I've heard good things about the Panny RP-82, not sure about the 62.

Jason

Am I the only person seeing alternate green and magenta stripes about one pixel wide on grey or white solid areas.

ADGrant,

I guess so.

On the tweak front:

I have been playing more with the non-DVD inputs on my set. I believe it is worth spending some time calibrating the other sources (1080i, s-video...) for all of the parameters including white balance and color decoder if you can generate a test signal.

I think something is not right with the DVI output from my Samsung SIR-T165. The levels are just too low and the picture seems overly enhanced. I prefer the component output over DVI at 1080i. The picture is much brighter and very sharp, but smooth. I was not able to get the DVI output to look as good.

I am about to receive my 60" GWII today. I have heard that I need to leave it on for 80 hours before I try any tweaks. Does this include the Avia cd? Will it matter if I play xbox, watch dvds, etc. off and on as long as the TV is on for the complete 80 hours? Thanks,

SCR

The bulb is not affected by the source material. All they are talking about is leaving the set on. You can do the service menu adjustments without powering down the bulb if you press the power button within about three seconds of the last push. I would practice the sequence to enter the service menu in another room before I tried this though.

Thanks for your fast response. I think I will wait for the bigtime tweaks until I have some time to practice. Looks pretty difficult for a beginner like me. I probably will go ahead and try using the avia dvd when it gets here.

Thanks for all you do on this set. I look forward to implementing your tweaks next week (or paying somebody to come over and do it if I can't figure it out). You should be paid by Sony because all of the work you do with this set!

Here is another tweak for those who want it:

Category - MID1

Item - BCOL #24

This item is used to set the background gray intensity. The intensity increases with increasing value.

RE - Green and Magenta.

I too see this, but not under normal viewing conditions, just test patterns. I am looking at a Sony LCD projector right now at work that has 1 pixel green and magenta as well. I guess this is normal, but I'm not thrilled by it.

UMR - re ghosting.

Try this. Put the standard sharpness pattern up from Avia. Set the "Image Revision" to zero and you should see the ghost image come out strongly in a primary color. I have that on my red panel. Mine doesn't ghost completely with "Image Revision" set to Auto, but makes a very faint and spotty ghost similar to what you describe but it is invisible in some places along the edge. The sharpness pattern is where I originally discovered this problem with mine. Luckily, Image Revision seems to do a great job negating the effects.


Ron

I had a suggestion for the next revision of the doc:

Since the doc strongly encourages us to write down existing settings
before making changes, could the doc be modified to provide blank spots
for us to record the existing settings?

Yes, we could write the settings anywhere, but having the reminder built-into the doc could help us to remember.

Thanks

menergy:

PM me your email address and I'll send you the spreadsheet for your modification.

UUronl:

I've seen the same thing with "Image Revision". I don't see any difference between the settings other than zero.

What's this about 80 hours? I don't think I've read that before

Some people believe the light bulb will last longer if you burn it in for an extended initial period. I have not seen any statistically significant data on this phenomena.

My bulb will be a test without this lengthy burn-in.

As will mine.

Jason

So two of us see the green and magenta and one does not (umr). Anyone else care to comment.

UMR,

Since it appears you are the master of the GWII, are you aware of any setting in the service menu that can chance the rotation of the image. By “rotation” I mean one corner of the picture appears to be lower then the opposite one.

At first I thought the signal was being mess with has it passed through the component switcher. But the same condition exists when watching a DVD hooked directly to input 6. I have not tried another input or source yet to see if this exists on all of the set inputs. Any ideas, could this also be cause by the mirror?

Thanks
John

jdpg2,

Unfortunately, the XBR geometry adjustments that would normally fix what you are seeing do not work on this TV. Your only hope is if there is some way to adjust the projector, but I don't know how. I have been trying to get a manual for the projector part of the television, but have not had any luck so far.

My guess is like yours that this is an optical issue and you may be stuck.

Originally posted by ADGrant
So two of us see the green and magenta and one does not (umr). Anyone else care to comment.

UMR said he saw about .5 pixel's worth, and if I read his post correctly it was during pattern viewing. I don't see this during anything but pattern viewing. Normal TV images don't reveal the misconvergence.


Ron

Originally posted by ADGrant
So two of us see the green and magenta and one does not (umr). Anyone else care to comment.

ADGrant,

I was kidding. :D

I said I was seeing about 1/2 a pixel of color fringing which is what I think you are describing. I believe you will see this on close examination of almost any RPTV with bright white lines or dots on a black background. It is an effect called chromatic aberration. This effect is caused by the inability of the optics to bring all of the wavelengths of visible light to focus at the same point.

Optics that are capable of bringing three wavelengths of visible light to focus at the same point are called apochromatic. The shorter the focal length the more difficult (read expensive) this is to do. I doubt any RPTV in this price range is using apochromatic optics. I would guess this would add another $2,000 to $10,000 to the price of the set depending on the diameter of the objective lens and focal length.

This effect may make it difficult for a RPTV to reach 1080p resolution with white light since we are seeing the effects at 1366x768p. The resolution of monochromatic objects will be less of a problem.

UUronl,

The effects of chromatic aberration on normal images is very subtle, but unfortunately it is impacting the actual resolution of the set.

UMR, my TV seems much worse than yours in this regard and much worse the the 50 on display at my local retailer. My other hobby is photography so I understand the limtations of lenses very well. I think what we are seeing has more do do with misalignment than chromatic aberrations since one side of the image is green and the other rmagenta. Chromatic abberatiosn tend to be symetrical and occur in high contrast situations.

In any case, my TV seems worse than many (including that 50 in the store which now looks so small). I am having the TV replaced tomorrow. Hopefully the second one is better.

UMR, thank you very much for all your efforts in making all our GWIIs all they should be. I'm sure all that have used your tweaks are impressed. I do have one question. I have my GWII connected to my hd200 via the DVI cable only (no s-video). Everything is outputed from the hd200 in 1080i. HD is of coarse outstanding and even SD is very good. At first I used the auto-DVI, but found the SD picture greatly improved when I output all DIRECTV channels in 1080i. Have you tried this and if so, is this setup better than using DVI for HD and s-video for SD? Again, thanks for all you efforts.

Mike

Mike,

I have had problems with the DVI connection from my SIR-T165. The picture level is too low and there appear to be some artifacts. I don't know who is at fault, but I am feeding my STB at 1080i through input 6 now and it is much better.

I used my DVD player as the reference source through my STB to generate the test images. The strange thing was even the DVD player looked a little better on test images through the STB. I guess going from 480i to 1080i in the STB and 1080i to 768p in the GWII works a little better than 480i to 768p in the GWiII on test images.

Originally posted by umr
Mike,

I have had problems with the DVI connection from my SIR-T165. The picture level is too low and there appear to be some artifacts. I don't know who is at fault, but I am feeding my STB at 1080i through input 6 now and it is much better.

I used my DVD player as the reference source through my STB to generate the test images. The strange thing was even the DVD player looked a little better on test images through the STB. I guess going from 480i to 1080i in the STB and 1080i to 768p in the GWII works a little better than 480i to 768p in the GWiII on test images.

UMR,

Please clarify your most recent post. Are you saying that you fed the output from your DVD into the STB then out to the GWII?

If so, what were the exact connections? Does this mean you were able to display the AVIA disk (for example) in 1080i? Does the SAT-HD200 have the capability to accept another source (DVD)?

Thanks,

MDM

What is the latest version of the Tweak File? 12/18 or is there a more recent one?

Thanks,

MDM

mdm_boulder,

12/18 on page 7.

Originally posted by mdm_boulder
UMR,

Please clarify your most recent post. Are you saying that you fed the output from your DVD into the STB then out to the GWII?

If so, what were the exact connections? Does this mean you were able to display the AVIA disk (for example) in 1080i? Does the SAT-HD200 have the capability to accept another source (DVD)?

Thanks,

MDM

Yes, my STB will accept other inputs and convert them to 720p or 1080i.

My connection path was:
Avia in my DVP-S7000 (DVD Player) through component input to Samsung SIR-T165 (HDTV STB) through component input and DVI input @ 1080i or 720p.

The SAT-HD200 does not appear to have this capability.

UMR-
Interesting connection of your DVD through the STB...hmmm...you mentioned 480i>>1080i>>768p. I am not certain that you are doing yourself any favor, in comparison w/ a progressive scan DVD...of 480p (and this is DIRECTLY into the TV w/ no additional connections). This is worth checking into though.

WOLVERNOLE,

I don't use this path normally, but I did use it to generate SMPTE color bars and other test patterns to more accurately calibrate the input. The results were different for each input type I tried including; 1080i DVI, 1080i Component, 480i Component and 480i S-Video. Since I don't have a signal generator this was my next best alternative until I can get SMTPE color bars on D-VHS.

I also like the results better than just copying the settings from 480i component to everything else. It just takes more effort.

The strange thing was that the DVD player resolution patterns actually looked better going in at 1080i through the STB than 480i component.

Hey everyone. I happened to be in Tweeter today and was talking with one of the sales guys. I mentioned the tweaks UMR has been working on and he told me that any such tweaking would void the Sony warranty on the set. Is there any truth to this? I find it somewhat plausible, but if you can switch all of the settings back to their defaults, how would anyone know? Anyone have any solid information about this? Thanks.

xrob

Originally posted by xrob
Hey everyone. I happened to be in Tweeter today and was talking with one of the sales guys. I mentioned the tweaks UMR has been working on and he told me that any such tweaking would void the Sony warranty on the set. Is there any truth to this? I find it somewhat plausible, but if you can switch all of the settings back to their defaults, how would anyone know? Anyone have any solid information about this? Thanks.

xrob

I would assume if you break it with a setting in the Service Menu Sony would be able to void the warranty just like you dropped it.

Hey guys,

Just got my GW II 50" today. Dam beautiful, even out of the box. My wife and i were drooling while watching gladiator. No tweaks. SD Signal however is marginal. I'm dying to apply the tweaks, have to wait until my AVIA disk arrives tomorrow.

Couple quick questions

1) WIth the tweaks, does black detail improve significantly?
2) Is there a factory reset function if you mess up to get everything back to default?
3) I have an interlaced DVD player now, thinking of getting a progressive scan. Is there a large noticeable difference between the two modes?
4) On average, how long do the tweaks take to apply to one input (trying to figure out a time to do them since we're so busy this week)
5) Dumb question - but why the hell doesn't Sony ship the set tweaked if it makes such difference? I'm sure it would help move a lot more product off the showroom floor (default Vivid mode is horrible)

Thank you all in this great thread for the great work. This thread made me feel comfortable with my purchase.

Originally posted by TommyTT
Hey guys,

Just got my GW II 50" today. Dam beautiful, even out of the box. My wife and i were drooling while watching gladiator. No tweaks. SD Signal however is marginal. I'm dying to apply the tweaks, have to wait until my AVIA disk arrives tomorrow.

Couple quick questions

1) WIth the tweaks, does black detail improve significantly?
2) Is there a factory reset function if you mess up to get everything back to default?
3) I have an interlaced DVD player now, thinking of getting a progressive scan. Is there a large noticeable difference between the two modes?
4) On average, how long do the tweaks take to apply to one input (trying to figure out a time to do them since we're so busy this week)
5) Dumb question - but why the hell doesn't Sony ship the set tweaked if it makes such difference? I'm sure it would help move a lot more product off the showroom floor (default Vivid mode is horrible)

Thank you all in this great thread for the great work. This thread made me feel comfortable with my purchase.

1) The black detail is not really a problem with this set it is the black levels. The gamma change will make the set looked less washed out. Calibrating picture and brightness correctly will display all black details (levels), but the blackest black is going to stay the same.
2) Yes and no. There is a function, but I don't have the guts to use it. I have read about many problems with this function.
3) The main difference is not interlaced/progressive on this set. The big differences are going to be SMPTE level accuracy, MPEG decompression artifacts, S/N ratio and chroma delay.
4) Not sure. Maybe 30 minutes to one hour depending on number of inputs.
5) Don't know, maybe marketing. This kind of thing happens with most TVs.

Originally posted by umr
1) The black detail is not really a problem with this set it is the black levels. The gamma change will make the set looked less washed out. Calibrating picture and brightness correctly will display all black details (levels), but the blackest black is going to stay the same.
2) Yes and no. There is a function, but I don't have the guts to use it. I have read about many problems with this function.
3) The main difference is not interlaced/progressive on this set. The big differences are going to be SMPTE level accuracy, MPEG decompression artifacts, S/N ratio and chroma delay.
4) Not sure. Maybe 30 minutes to one hour depending on number of inputs.
5) Don't know, maybe marketing. This kind of thing happens with most TVs.

I'm not much of a videophile.. but for instance, last night we watched John Q Public and Minority report. Where characters were wearing a black suit, or had black hair, that black area was just pure black, no detail. The darkness of the black was nice, but i could see any detail. So i cranked brightness up and got more detail, but the picture was too bright and washed out. My Avia disk just came in from Amazon, so i'm going to give the Gamma tweak a try. If I can just get a bit more detail on the blacks, i'd be happy as a punch.

I've tried calibrating the black levels using Avia on my Sony DVP-F11 player using S-Video (the Panny RP-82 is on back order). I've already applied the GAMMA/BLK tweak in the service menu.

Using the black level screen (I don't remember what it's called -- it's the one with the black on the left half of the screen and white on the right half), I can't see any difference in black levels at all. I'm supposed to see 2 black lines moving back and forth and adjust it so one of them disappears while I can still see the other one. No matter what I do with the brightness I can't see any of the 2 lines. Anyone else have the same problem?

Using the THX Optimizer to adjust the brightness (with the screen with the varying black level boxes on the top and bottom), I'm supposed to be able to see the 7th darkest box. I can only see up to the 5th, even with brightness turned up all the way. What's wrong here? Am I doing anything wrong with my Contrast? I have that turned all the way up.

Is this a problem with the set in general, am I missing a setting, or is my set defective?

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by xrob
Hey everyone. I happened to be in Tweeter today and was talking with one of the sales guys. I mentioned the tweaks UMR has been working on and he told me that any such tweaking would void the Sony warranty on the set. Is there any truth to this? I find it somewhat plausible, but if you can switch all of the settings back to their defaults, how would anyone know? Anyone have any solid information about this? Thanks.

xrob
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by umr
I would assume if you break it with a setting in the Service Menu Sony would be able to void the warranty just like you dropped it.


Yes I would think that's a given. I've had my 50" for a week now & and am quite happy for the most part. My new panny PR-82 DVD player looks so good that you would think you wouldn't need to do any tweeks.

UMR, or anyone that knows for sure. I was told by a manager at Sound Track that the TV itself records how many times the sevice menue has been accessed. Is this true?

If so. If we do the tweeks with no probs. A year later. Something quits working that is NOT the falt of ME. The sevice guy comes to check it out. Sees that someone that is not authorized to sevice it has been in there & can say sorry warantee void!

I really want to do all the tweeks. DVD looks great as it is but SD could look alot better. It just barely gets by as is. I'm also disapointed with how my Mini DV camcorder looks true s-video.

By the way I did ajust the user menue by UMR's #'s (DRC).

TommyTT, when you watched Minority Report did you see alot more grainyness to the whole movie that other DVDs? It's the only one that I've see that didn't look that great.

UMR, one other thing I forgot to ask. In 4:3 mode the verticle sides of the pic. are slightly bowed inward. I don't think thats right. I've seen most of the GW's in the showroom showing the same thing. I did see one however that was pefectly strait. I would asume that you can fix this in the service menue. Am I right? Thanks, Scott

Originally posted by xrob
Hey everyone. I happened to be in Tweeter today and was talking with one of the sales guys. I mentioned the tweaks UMR has been working on and he told me that any such tweaking would void the Sony warranty on the set. Is there any truth to this? I find it somewhat plausible, but if you can switch all of the settings back to their defaults, how would anyone know? Anyone have any solid information about this? Thanks.

xrob

I have found the following statements related to user maintenance or modification of TV that might affect or void the warranty. Please correct me if I overlooked something.

1. Operating Instructions Manual
KF-50XBR800
KF-60XBR800

p. 4 "Refer all servicing to qualified service personnel. Servicing is required when the apparatus has been damaged in any way,...."

p. 7 "Servicing Do not attempt to service the set by yourself since opening the cabinet may expose you to dangerous voltage or other hazards. Refer all servicing to qualified service personnel."

These statements seem, in context, to define servicing as related to when the apparatus has been damaged, and also view servicing as an opening-the-cabinet task. NEITHER OF THESE relates, IMO, to doing Service Menu tweaks.

2. SONY LIMITED WARRANTY

"This warranty does not cover customer instruction, installation, set up adjustments or signal reception problems."

"This warranty does not cover cosmetic damage or damage due to acts of God, accident, misuse, abuse, negligence, commercial use, or modification of, or to any part of the Product, including the antenna. This warranty does not cover damage due to improper operation or maintenance, connection to improper voltage supply, or attempted repair by anyone other than a facility authorized by Sony to service the Product."

This also does not seem to refer to Service Menu tweaks. You are not modifying any part of the Product, just making parameter adjustments as you do when you use the User Menu and adjust, e.g., DRC. You are not adding anything to or installing anything into or onto the TV. You are also not making an "attempted repair by anyone other than a facility authorized by Sony" as you are not repairing anything, nor doing any "servicing" as described in the Operating Instructions Manual (i.e., you are not dealing with a damaged product, nor opening the cabinet).

With this LCD TV, you are not modifying or adjusting the positioning or alignment of the LCD panels. You are not adjusting or increasing the intensity or heat of the light bulb. You are hopefully not stupid enough to turn off or disable the fans -- which COULD cause heat damage to the TV. You are not moving any parts or physically adjusting the focusing mechanism -- if you notice bad focus or LCD alignment/convergence under your warranty period, it's TV replacement time, not "do Service Menu tweaks" time. This TV has no burn-in issue, so nothing you can do can damage images or phosphors when you adjust color and brightness and gamma and input settings, etc., as far as I know.

3. Tweeter Performance Package (extended warranty) brochure

Nothing in this brochure that I could find.

4. SERVICE MANUAL LA-1A CHASSIS
KF-50XBR800 RMY912 US/Canada
KF-60XBR800 RMY912 US/Canada

Nothing in this manual that I could find.

Also, Sony sold me and everyone else the Service Manual without prequalifying us or restricting it for sale to authorized and certified repair persons or technicians.

I am no lawyer, but I would be a-hootin' and a-hollerin' and waving the above statements in the face of my salesperson if they refused a legitimate repair based on an attempt to void the warranty because we, as users/owners, had entered the Service Menu.

Well done eweiss. I just now might do these adjustments this week.

Originally posted by rgathright
Well done eweiss. I just now might do these adjustments this week.

Thanks. I hope someone(s) who also has the Service Manual will review the operating instructions manual, the warranty statement, and the service manual to make sure I did in fact note every relevant or tangentially-relevant clause or statement.

Tweak away!!

And ... is there in fact any code or instruction in the Service Manual that does log the number of times the Service Menu has been accessed or used?

I am sorry to be asking a question not relevant to the current discussion. I am trying to get started on these tweaks and need a little help.

I am trying to set the basic settings and have a couple of questions:

1) Is the basic settings (color, brightness, etc.) that are posted in the document what I should be using? Will the Avia DVD give me pretty much the same results?

2) When I try to set Cinemotion and DRC it will not let me into Advanced Video on Video 5 (DVD) or Video 7 (HD200). It will let me do it on Video 6 (XBOX). What am I doing wrong? Thanks so much in advance.

SCR

Originally posted by Southerncentralrain2
I am sorry to be asking a question not relevant to the current discussion. I am trying to get started on these tweaks and need a little help.

I am trying to set the basic settings and have a couple of questions:

1) Is the basic settings (color, brightness, etc.) that are posted in the document what I should be using? Will the Avia DVD give me pretty much the same results?

2) When I try to set Cinemotion and DRC it will not let me into Advanced Video on Video 5 (DVD) or Video 7 (HD200). It will let me do it on Video 6 (XBOX). What am I doing wrong? Thanks so much in advance.

SCR

Re: 2) -- You cannot make Advanced Video settings if the input is receiving a Progressive signal -- either from a DVD player or from an HD broadcast. The Progressive signal overrules/disables the Advanced Video options. If you feed/send it an Interlaced DVD signal, you can access the Advanced Video options. However, after making the changes or adjustments, I don't know if they "stick" in those changed settings or if feeding it a progressive signal again overrides Advanced Video to some preset or predetermined settings or if all such settings are completely ignored when receiving a progressive signal and aren't a factor at all. That's my understanding of this. I have yet to feed my TV a progressive signal, as I have only an Interlaced DVD player and no HDTV.

Also, the MILD Picture Mode disables Advanced Video.

<<Here is another tweak for those who want it:

Category - MID1

Item - BCOL #24

>>

You settings have made my TV better than ever! Thanks UMR.

2 questions.

What do you have your BCOL set at?

Also, if I have an Onkyo HITB 650 should I leave my 60XBR800 speakers on or set them to off?

Thanks again.

Hi, I just purchased what I believe is the European Version of the 50XBR800 (50SX200) and would like to know if the same tweaks will work.

Thanks in advance.

Diego.

Originally posted by dickydoo
I've tried calibrating the black levels using Avia on my Sony DVP-F11 player using S-Video (the Panny RP-82 is on back order). I've already applied the GAMMA/BLK tweak in the service menu.

Using the black level screen (I don't remember what it's called -- it's the one with the black on the left half of the screen and white on the right half), I can't see any difference in black levels at all. I'm supposed to see 2 black lines moving back and forth and adjust it so one of them disappears while I can still see the other one. No matter what I do with the brightness I can't see any of the 2 lines. Anyone else have the same problem?

Using the THX Optimizer to adjust the brightness (with the screen with the varying black level boxes on the top and bottom), I'm supposed to be able to see the 7th darkest box. I can only see up to the 5th, even with brightness turned up all the way. What's wrong here? Am I doing anything wrong with my Contrast? I have that turned all the way up.

Is this a problem with the set in general, am I missing a setting, or is my set defective?

There is something really wrong. You should be able to see all black levels except maybe blacker than black if your player does not output it. I would suspect your DVD player could be miss adjusted or it is defect. These levels are visible without any service menu adjustments by using brightness and picture alone.

Originally posted by Couch Patato
UMR, one other thing I forgot to ask. In 4:3 mode the verticle sides of the pic. are slightly bowed inward. I don't think thats right. I've seen most of the GW's in the showroom showing the same thing. I did see one however that was pefectly strait. I would asume that you can fix this in the service menue. Am I right? Thanks, Scott

I have found no geometry adjustments to fix this. The standard adjustments for XBR CRT screens are in the set, but they do nothing.

I have nothing to add on the whole warranty/service menu issue.

Originally posted by Southerncentralrain2
I am sorry to be asking a question not relevant to the current discussion. I am trying to get started on these tweaks and need a little help.

I am trying to set the basic settings and have a couple of questions:

1) Is the basic settings (color, brightness, etc.) that are posted in the document what I should be using? Will the Avia DVD give me pretty much the same results?

2) When I try to set Cinemotion and DRC it will not let me into Advanced Video on Video 5 (DVD) or Video 7 (HD200). It will let me do it on Video 6 (XBOX). What am I doing wrong? Thanks so much in advance.

SCR

1) I would use whatever AVIA gives you as the correct settings. My settings for these and the individual inputs are for your information only.

2) Already answered above...

Originally posted by Bronsteen
<<Here is another tweak for those who want it:

Category - MID1

Item - BCOL #24

>>

You settings have made my TV better than ever! Thanks UMR.

2 questions.

What do you have your BCOL set at?

Also, if I have an Onkyo HITB 650 should I leave my 60XBR800 speakers on or set them to off?

Thanks again.

I left BCOL at the factory setting. I don't remember what that is.

I would use whatever you like for sound. I don't use my GWII speakers.

Originally posted by Tornini
Hi, I just purchased what I believe is the European Version of the 50XBR800 (50SX200) and would like to know if the same tweaks will work.

Thanks in advance.

Diego.

Maybe:confused:

umr

I have printed out the adjustments of the service menu settings and have
some questions. Which one do I need to do first and which one is the most
important one to do?
I got into the service menu and backed out not knowing what to do first.

Originally posted by rgathright
umr

I have printed out the adjustments of the service menu settings and have
some questions. Which one do I need to do first and which one is the most
important one to do?
I got into the service menu and backed out not knowing what to do first.


I assume this is what you have printed out:
Latest Settings (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=1651505)

The recommended order is on the very first page. The only change I would make is that it is worth while to adjust each input individually except for the user menu.

I have answered this before, but I would do the detail enhancements first. Second I would fix the gamma followed up by fixing the color. The list shows this. The grayscale and color decoder are difficult more difficult than the rest to do right.

Originally posted by umr
There is something really wrong. You should be able to see all black levels except maybe blacker than black if your player does not output it. I would suspect your DVD player could be miss adjusted or it is defect. These levels are visible without any service menu adjustments by using brightness and picture alone.

Hmm...I think I'll wait for my Panny RP82 to arrive before I start to panic. Thanks for the info -- I was worried that all sets were like this and was getting kind of dissappointed.

If one changes gamma and the sharpness controls, does this have any effect on the color/hue handling of the set?

I had a really tough time doing the color decoder, so i went back to defaults.

Also, i was hoping somebody here could take a look at the magenta/cyan blotch issue i'm experiencing. See below.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=205492

The color decoder is easier to set if you lower the picture level to about 25 to 50%.

The sharpness will not effect color/hue. The picture can if you push it too far and one of the panels saturates before the others.

Can you explain what the reality and clarity settings do in the advanced picture menu? Playing around with them, i get some interesting results. Almost like sharpness control.

I am not sure what they are doing technically, but after watching many test patterns I believe the settings I recommended give the best results.

I have to agree with that, changing the settings to umr's recommendations really 'cleaned up' my SD signal a lot. The tweeks helped as well, but that was a quick, easy change to get a better picture on SD.

Umr,

Tweaked my set this weekend thanks so much for your help. Black levels are still my main issue on digital cable. I need to get a DVD that shows black and shadows to see how that compares but was wondering if you had any other thoughts on how to enhance those black levels for digital cable. Was watching Timecop on usa and lots of shadows in movie had to turn up brightness to see the images or they'd just be black no detail. This just may be a function of poor signal quality as I don't particularly like the washed out look. Anyways any input or advice would be great.

Oh if anyone else has idea's I'm all ears.

Thanks again for all your help.

Originally posted by wburdett
Umr,

Tweaked my set this weekend thanks so much for your help. Black levels are still my main issue on digital cable. I need to get a DVD that shows black and shadows to see how that compares but was wondering if you had any other thoughts on how to enhance those black levels for digital cable. Was watching Timecop on usa and lots of shadows in movie had to turn up brightness to see the images or they'd just be black no detail. This just may be a function of poor signal quality as I don't particularly like the washed out look. Anyways any input or advice would be great.

Oh if anyone else has idea's I'm all ears.

Thanks again for all your help.

It sounds like you copied my settings directly. You need to set the brightness and picture for each input going into your set with some type of calibration signal. You can also try other GAMMA settings if you want to see more detail in the low level blacks.

Got my 60xbr800 this weekend. I copied UMRs User Menu settings exactly and I made the PIC-BOOST2 and PIC-BOOST3 changes. Things look great except for sports on my DISH 501.

Since I don't yet have the AVIA disk, I will try to recalibrate the User Menu using THX tonight. I also plan to do the GAMM/BLK tweak.

After reading this entire thread, I am still unclear as to how set dependant these changes are. For example, I have a PVR 501 (S-vid) so should the Croma Delay setting of "7" work fine or do I need to use AVIA to be sure?

Also, I have a new Panny RP 82 (Component). Would you set Croma Delay to "0" for this device?

In regards to the RP 82, should I use the black enhancement setting? Is it best to send progressive out from the unit or not?

Thanks,
Kurt

kkelley,

The chroma delay settings are device and not TV dependent. This is aligning the color and b&w information. To set this you need to display something where you can see when they do not line up. AVIA has a test pattern for this, but you cannot use this with the 501. I would display something with a bright color image next to a darker field. Many of the little bugs they place on channels like CNN work well for this.

I don't know much about the Panasonic DVD player. You should adjust each device individually for chroma though. My understanding is that this player is very poor at matching SMPTE for interlaced outputs. I would go with progressive.

Thanks UMR!

So there could be variances between 501's. When you talk about aligning color and b & w information. Do you mean that I need to adjust so the color does not bleed into the black area?

Thanks for the Panny advice. Would you suggest using the players Black level enhancement?

I doubt there will be a difference between the same devices (like your and my 501) on chroma delay, but it takes very little time to check. I find it easier to detect a bright white area where there should be color instead of trying to see the color bleeding into the black, but you have the idea. Just go to a display and start changing the value in the service menu. You should see the effect easily on the type of display I am talking about.

I don't know what black level enhancement does so I don't have any advice. I would place a grayscale ramp on the screen to see what it does if I had that player.

umr,

Quick thanks for all your efforts. Have my 50 now and tweaked away this wknd. Now my sd picture is most cases is avg to good. Guess I won't be sending you tickets to fly over here and tweak this set yourself. The file you guy's have developed is valuable and user friendly.

Much appreciated.

kkelly,

Use the "Normal" black level to calibrate your set. Check out the following link for further explaination on this topic,

http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/experttips/guykuo/avia/avia_a2z.html

Scroll near the bottom of the page and look at the tip "Should I Set my DVD Player to Enhanced or Normal Black?"

I own a Panasonic RP62 DVD player and I used to set my black level to "Enhanced", which gave me bad PQ result with 480p output. After I set it back to "Normal" and recalibrate my TV, now it looks better with 480p. But for me, when watching movies like "Minority Report", 480p still looks too grainy, I have to switch to 480i to use the DRC settings to get a smoother picture.

sonygrandwega,

Great link. Everyone should read that if they are tweaking their sets. Sounds like the Enhanced Black setting is very useful for calibrating your HD inputs since 0 IRE is the standard for ATSC.

Thanks sonygrandwega! I'll give this a try.

As mentioned above, I have done the PIC-BOOST2, PIC-BOOST3 and now the GAMM/BLK tweaks. Thanks again to UMR.

However, the Dish signal from my PVR 501 still looks pretty bad. Things look grainy and any fast movement looks awful - Monday Night Football to be exact. Anything other than 4x3 mode seems unwatchable.

Even though DVD looks better than anything I have ever seen, I fear the wife will want me to send this thing back if I don't get the Dish signal looking better soon.

Are my expectations unrealistic for this set? It seems that there is little or no improvement over my 7 year old 55" Zenith in regards to the Dish signal...

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

kkelleym,

You have done everything I know of to eliminate artifacts on this TV. I only use 4:3 on my 501 for the same reasons.

The color decoder changes help the picture also, but not the artifacts.

I should probably validate my comment in regards to the Zenith tonight since I am going by memory. We moved it to the play room but I haven't hooked it up yet.

My hope is that the DVD signal is soooo good that my perception of a good picture had been altered... (and that I can convience my wife of this)

UMR, thanks again for all your efforts.

I think your expectations of the Dish signal are unrealistic. It simply isn't good enough for the GWII or any other large screen TV. The better the TV the greater the difference between high quality and low quality sources. With the GWII, I can clearly see the quality differences between different DVDs. BTW I have analog cable and a Tivo. The Tivo makes a poor signal worse.

My suggestion is get a netflix subscription and watch more DVDs. Cancel any premium channels except perhaps HBO if you like their original shows (we wait for the DVDs).

I also use Netflix instead of premium channels.

Does anybody know what the reset function is to get the set back to factory defaults for everything?

UMR,

Since you are using 'warm' color setting, would this make your decoder settings etc. different from somebody that prefers neutral? I was just going to copy your settings, but they didn't seem right with neutral on.

Originally posted by TommyTT
UMR,

Since you are using 'warm' color setting, would this make your decoder settings etc. different from somebody that prefers neutral? I was just going to copy your settings, but they didn't seem right with neutral on.


The following is a quote from the link I provided to Keohi HDTV in your other thread:
Notices that nowhere in this discussion did the grayscale come into play. That's because it is a separate issue. All three primaries are checked using bars at 75% intensity. That means all the test points are at the SAME content of each primary. This eliminates the effect of grayscale imbalance. Imagine that your grayscale was set so badly that red was 50% higher than it should be. At first glance, you might think this would throw off your checks for red push. It doesn't because the red bar and the gray bar would BOTH be altered by the same grayscale imbalance . Both are at 75% red signal intensity and rise in red output TOGETHER as grayscale red content is boosted. This means you can check for color decoder accuracy even when gray scale is incorrectly balanced.

I have a suspicion that copying settings for the color decoder and grayscale is probably not going to work very well.

Ok that is what I suspected. I'll do everything from scratch using AVIA.

Just out of curiosity, how come you use the warm setting? I found everything very reddish in that setting..

Sony typically sets warm as the setting that will most closely match 6500k. I would agree that it is not correct with the factory settings. That is why I adjusted the CUT and DRV values. The procedure in the PDF is a poor mans approach to this. With LCDs it is very difficult to do this because the panels are not perfectly even. When I adjusted mine for yellow you could see this very clearly.

You need a photographic gray card and a 6500k light source to judge this with even a limited amount of precision. A photographic gray card with indirect lighting (in the shade) from sunlight is not a bad approximation.

umr,

I have a 721 Dish Player that has 1 s-video input. I also have Panasonic HS2 video recorder that accepts s-video input and outputs s-video and a progressive signal through component output. I have tested the 721 signal through s-video directly to the 60XBR and through the video recorder connected through s-video and output through component (progressive) and s-video. I have found that the pq looks much much better through the component output that I am getting out the dvd recorder. I am trying to sort this out in my head. The 721 outputs 480i signal from dish ----> the dvd recorder (Panasonic HS2) takes the signal and sends it to the TV at 480p (I guess?) ---> then the TV scales it to 768. Is this correct?

Why I see a difference in PQ? Does this means that a scaler between the satellite receiver and the TV can improve the signal? I do not much about these things but I am seeing quite a difference in pq on regular dish signal and I am trying to sort out why the difference.

Originally posted by motjes2
umr,

I have a 721 Dish Player that has 1 s-video input. I also have Panasonic HS2 video recorder that accepts s-video input and outputs s-video and a progressive signal through component output. I have tested the 721 signal through s-video directly to the 60XBR and through the video recorder connected through s-video and output through component (progressive) and s-video. I have found that the pq looks much much better through the component output that I am getting out the dvd recorder. I am trying to sort this out in my head. The 721 outputs 480i signal from dish ----> the dvd recorder (Panasonic HS2) takes the signal and sends it to the TV at 480p (I guess?) ---> then the TV scales it to 768. Is this correct?

Why I see a difference in PQ? Does this means that a scaler between the satellite receiver and the TV can improve the signal? I do not much about these things but I am seeing quite a difference in pq on regular dish signal and I am trying to sort out why the difference.

Your analysis of the signal path is correct. I don't think it would be the scaler since it is active for 480p and 480i. I guess it could be the video mode deinterlacing if you are seeing fewer artifacts like jagged lines. If it is color, black level or sharpness related I would guess it has more to do with other circuitry, service menu or calibration differences.

I tried to post a pic but the server will not let me. It says that it has been posted already on this thread! Any way, I am seeing fewer artifacts and the colors are better. I will try to post in another thread some pics including this one.

Here are those pics plus some other:


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=208574


Here is how to get the service manual:


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=208717

HI All,

I've done some tweaking and my SD picture is looking much better. One issue I am having is calibrating the color decoder. From my DVD source, the Avia color decoder checks look right (no push of any color). However, I know/feel that my SD STB is pushing red. How can I adjust RYR RYB to take red down by say 5% (without the presence of a test pattern)? Right now they are at default values.

For the ever-curious like myself, if you were wondering why the RGBS (2170P-2 menu) values in umr's Service Menu tweaks are what they are, it's because the 3 primary colors (blue, green and red) interact with each other in this setting based on binary numbers. That's why going from 0 to 7 takes you from black to white with the 3 primary and 3 secondary colors in between. If the color has a 1, it's turned on; if it has a 0, it's turned off. 1 (001) is blue, 2 (010) is green, and 4 (100) is red. Hence:


....421
....rgb
0 = 000 = black (all three panels turned off)
1 = 001 = blue (blue panel only on)
2 = 010 = green (green panel only on)
3 = 011 = cyan (blue + green)
4 = 100 = red (red panel only on)
5 = 101 = magenta (blue + red)
6 = 110 = yellow (green + red)
7 = 111 = white (all three panels on)


I can't claim brilliant insight for this. Graham Norbury on the Sony tweak thread at the Home Theater Spot explained this to me.

This review of the Sony Projector that is a close cousin to the GWII summarizes the GWII's performance well.

Sony Projector Review (http://www.guidetohometheater.com/showarchives.cgi?42)

It is interesting to note that the reviewer also saw great improvement from changing the gamma performance.

If that is the cousin... Is this the older brother? :-)

http://www.avprojector.com/sonvplcdproj1.html

http://www.sony.com/cineza

http://www.projectorcentral.com/projector_details.cfm?part_id=1729

Umr,

Last night I rented the "The Count of Monte-Cristo" . This movie has a lot of Dark Scenes. At first, I did not like how the picture was displaying the dark on the xbr. I also have a dvd player on my pc and I started to compare different dark scenes. One particular one that I focused on is around chapter 21-22. It looked like there was a lack of details in a room that was mostly dark. In the PC dvd, the background showed a red wall while in the xbr, I could not distinguised the color. I was using the panasonic hs2 on the xbr. It is unfortunate that I could not replicate this since the DVD went bad on me. I hope I can get a replacement soon. I will be comparing others chapters as well plus I will try to connect my other non-progressive dvd to make sure is not the hs2 that is causing the problem. If I find the same problem on both dvd players, then I will need to go back and find out what's wrong. Have you tried to compare dark scenes? How is your xbr displaying dark scenes?

Look at my latest post that should give you an idea of dark scene performance.

GWII White Balance (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=209946)

Between 0-10 IRE my set has a very strong blue cast. This kind of thing could be messing with the colors on very dark scenes if your set is like mine.

Umr,

thanks this is all very interested. I found out what was wrong. The panasonic hs2 has its own picture adjustment and it was set to soft making every dark scene detailess. I had to use the user adjustment because any of the pre-settings were not adequate. Here's another set of controls that have contrast, brightness, sharpness, color, gamma, 3d nr, block nr, and mosquito nr. Any way, I have made a few changes and I am getting a lot of details (what I expected). I was getting worried for a moment.

Glad to here you got things straight. When I get a chance I'll send you a modified version of the spreadsheet.

All of the adjustments in the new players seem to be adding to peoples problems more than helping.

Well I got my copy of the service manual today, and all I have to say is... I spent $30 on this?!!?

I'm pretty used to terse technical documentation, but this service manual is atrocious! Aside from being rife with typo's, it doesn't begin to describe what all the settings are-- it just lists pages and pages of opaque labels with a range of acceptable values.

Any ideas what "Killer processing selection" is? Of course not. And only ONE section has any descriptions at all, the rest is just a ticker symbol and a range of values.

The 2170D1 menu (of course it doesn't say what _that_ is) has item #6, VPIN, with a range of values : 15 is "normal" and 15 is "others".

Great.

UMR, how on earth did you get started with this manual to figure out what these letters mean? Your tweaking guide is of real, useful value, but the service manual IS NOT.

... 7 days and counting, waiting for my 60GWII to show up from the local Circuit City...

Originally posted by jephjeph
...UMR, how on earth did you get started with this manual to figure out what these letters mean? ...

Actually the manual is even worse than you can see. It totally excludes circuit board "C" which has the optical drive circuitry. To me its main value is that it shows how the memory is organized and it provides a good place to record all the values I am changing. Many people have struggled understanding the memory structure without the manual.

I read CRT XBR threads on how they tweaked their sets. Searched the web for info on key IC's. I received some help from Bill Cushman about things to look for. I also experimented with chips that looked like they would do what I wanted. Many of these attempts were futile. This required many hours with the TV and test images.

I am still looking for info on the, "C", optical drive unit to further improve this set. I am also waiting on a "Kodak Color Print Viewing Filter Kit" to experiment with improving the contrast ratio and near IRE 0 blacks.

umr,
How will you install the filter? Will you have to break into the optical unit and if so do you know if the filter will fit? Are you deciding to use a filter as a result of the SMART calibration? How did you use the SMART optical unit with this TV as far as locating it for measurements?

I have not implemented your service menu tweaks but have calibrated with AVIA and am pretty happy with what I have so far. TIVO still leaves a little to be desired but HD/ED looks great as well as a good progressive scan DVD player. I am enjoying this TV much more than the Sammy DLP I had for almost 30 days. What are the most important service menu tweaks to start with as listed in your spreadsheet? Thanks again for all your input!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by LVS
umr,
How will you install the filter? Will you have to break into the optical unit and if so do you know if the filter will fit? Are you deciding to use a filter as a result of the SMART calibration? How did you use the SMART optical unit with this TV as far as locating it for measurements?

I have not implemented your service menu tweaks but have calibrated with AVIA and am pretty happy with what I have so far. TIVO still leaves a little to be desired but HD/ED looks great as well as a good progressive scan DVD player. I am enjoying this TV much more than the Sammy DLP I had for almost 30 days. What are the most important service menu tweaks to start with as listed in your spreadsheet? Thanks again for all your input! /QUOTE]

I will install it over the projection lens, probably by removing the screen/mirror assembly if I go this route. I did not use SMART see my thread GWII White Balance (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=209946) on what I used. I will be using the filter set to test these changes without breaking into the set. Bill Cushman suggested this route and it sounds very reasonable to me.

All of the measurements were taken in the center of the screen.

I would say all of the tweaks are important for optimal picture quality, but the easiest to do are the PIC-BOOST ones. The geometry adjustments are probably the least important.

Are you nuts. Everyone knows that DLP is always better than LCD. :D

Thanks umr,
Sorry for the additional questions but I am new to most of this. You stated "All of the measurements were taken in the center of the screen". Was the sensor attached to the screen? How will you test the filter without breaking into the unit? Will you attach the filter to the sensor?

I am sure this has been asked before, but do most of the service menu tweaks apply to SD and non-progressive input devices either component or SVHS/Composite where the DRC is in use? Currently I use the Coax TV input, the SVHS input for TIVO and the other 2 component inputs for progressive scan HD/ED signals. Will I see improvements with this setup?

DLP always better than LCD:confused: I am waiting for flames:D

LVS,

The sensor was attached to a microphone boom up close to the screen.

To test the filter I will just hold it over my eyes initially and ad hoc readjust the gray scale. I would use the filter with the sensors if I had them available. I would then move on to ordering the proper filter if I find one that looks like it is worth the light loss and hassle. We will then readjust the set with the instruments with the new filter in place.

None of the service menu tweaks have anything to do with DRC. All of the tweaks would improve all of your inputs. The biggest problem I had without a signal generator was setting the levels on HD properly.

Umr,

I also got the service manual yesterday. I agree with you guys regarding the lack of information but it is still useful. I also saw a bunch of schematic for the different boards. I haven't seen one of these since college. I am going to look at them more carefully and do some reading on them. I am not an Engineer but I did two years of Electrical Engineering. I wished I had kept my oscilloscope and equipment.

Anyway, you probably talked about this and I missed it but it seems that the tweaking are not only input dependent (in the case of video 5-7) but also signal dependent (480i 480p 720p 1080i). Is this correct or am I reading this incorrectly from the tables? Have you found more information on the different circuit boards on the web? Can you post them? Thanks.

Originally posted by motjes2
Umr,

...Anyway, you probably talked about this and I missed it but it seems that the tweaking are not only input dependent (in the case of video 5-7) but also signal dependent (480i 480p 720p 1080i). Is this correct or am I reading this incorrectly from the tables? Have you found more information on the different circuit boards on the web? Can you post them? Thanks.

Yes that is correct on some of the tweaks. The manual makes it a little more clear how this works.

I only have what is already posted in this thread.

Yes that is correct on some of the tweaks. The manual makes it a little more clear how this works.

So it seems to me that Sony (and others as well) should invest in assembling more than two components per TV. Isn't it the case that these days, most of the equipment have component output. In my case, I have two DVD players, one is progressive (480p) and the other is not (480i). If I tweak video 5, should I do it based on the progressive signal and hope that it will work for the 480i? Wouldn't it there be subtle differences in the tweaks of these two signals? Also, an A/B switch will not resolve the problem of signal dependency per component input.

What about the tweaks for video 6? Which signal should I feed 1080i or 720p? will the tweak of one work over the one?

Component 7 - DVI will be another option but there are very few equipment out there with this type of output.

Originally posted by motjes2
If I tweaked video 5, should I do it based on the progressive signal and hope that it will work for the 480i? Wouldn't it there be subtle differences in the tweaks of these two signals? Also, an A/B switch will not resolve the problem of signal dependency per component input.

What about the tweaks for video 6? Which signal should I feed 1080i or 720p? will the tweak of one work over the one?

Component 7 - DVI will be another option but there are very few equipment out there with this type of output.

Most of the tweaks actually have the same value. They therefore should apply to all inputs except for chroma delay and the user brightness/picture settings. These settings are different for each resolution and input type so you should not have a problem unless it is in that area.

Two inputs of the same type and resolution will not work well if one device has 0 IRE blacks and the other has 7.5 IRE blacks. You need to be careful about what the reference level of each device is that you are feeding into each input type.

The chroma delay is the most likely to cause problems because it is defined on an input type only basis. All component inputs have the same chroma delay regardless of resolution. This means you want all high quality devices on a given input type that have none otherwise you will see problems that cannot be fixed easily unless they just happen to have the same chroma delay.

You will need to tweak some of the values separately for 1080i and 720p. I personally use 1080i, but I would choose what you like the best.

Umr,

Just finished tweaking video 5 with DVD at 480i. Now I understand why your picture is at 100% since mine also ended up there. In user menus I ended up with almost an exact replica. My brigthness setting came up very low (ony 12 ticks); sharpness was a little over 50%. I had a problem with the PIC-BOOST3-CDLY (Croma Delay). When I use AVIA to set it I saw very little difference in changes between 0 an 3. I left at 3.

The white balance adjustment are really a pain. One need to be really carefull with it. My numbers came very close to yours. The illumination settings (2170P-4) were also time consuming. The most drastic number I came up with on GYR was 4.

I played a few DVDs just to see how it looks. These tweaks greatly enhanced the picture quality especially the blacks. I watched the "Count of Monte-Cristo" again and it was filled with a lot of details in all the black scenes. I think 85% to 90% of this film has black scenes and a very good movie too.

One negative that I have noticed (maybe it has to do with the fact that I am tire) is that while watching a bright scene specially when the characters are far away, the picture quality shows "snows". This does not happens in any close up but only in far away scenes. I do not know whether is really the film or the TV. I need to make sure that I did not miss anything.

On another topic, as I was coming home tonight, I was thinking about the input and signal dependency of the tweaks. Is it not possible that the xbr will remember the tweaks for each signal going through the same input? That is, now that I have done these tweaks to video 5 using a 480i signal if I do the same tweaks using a 480p through the same video 5 can this be allocated to another memory, maybe, that will not overwrite the tweaks done on 480i? If this is the case, this will be great. I do not know if this is possible. The service manual is not clear on this.

One negative that I have noticed (maybe it has to do with the fact that I am tire) is that while watching a bright scene specially when the characters are far away, the picture quality shows "snows".

This is probably the movie, but I would check the picture settings with THX Optimizer (Star Wars II) to be sure. Another check I use is to play the movie on my PC monitor for comparison.

Is it not possible that the xbr will remember the tweaks for each signal going through the same input? That is, now that I have done these tweaks to video 5 using a 480i signal if I do the same tweaks using a 480p through the same video 5 can this be allocated to another memory, maybe, that will not overwrite the tweaks done on 480i?

When the tables show different columns for different resolutions like 480i/480p the settings are not shared. When the tables do not indicate this, but only show composite for example the settings are shared. I have seen this when switching from 720p to 1080i on my STB.

Here is the latest spreadsheet from UMR. I could not conver it to pdf yet because of pc problems. As soon as it is available i will post it as pdf.


Sorry I had to remove it as per UMR request. When it is ready, I will post.

Here is a zipped version of the spreadsheet. This version contains some new items previously unmentioned in other posts and all of my current settings.

Edit: Updated to latest info 1/30/03

Edit: Fixed some typos 1/31/03

umr

What program do you have the new settings in? I can't seem to get it opened.

The Microsoft Excel file was zipped with WinZip. We should have a pdf version up soon.

That is what I needed to know. I do not have Excel on this computer, but I do at my computer at work.

Here is an HTML version. See if you can get this to work. Try to extract it all to your desktop. This version actually has some nice graphs that are not on the excel spreadsheet.

Edit: Fixed formatting problem on entering service menu - 1/19/03

Edit: Updated with new alignment info and a few minor changes - 1/29/03

Edit: Updated with 4:3 alignment infor and image detail changes - 1/30/03

Deleted html version - 1/31/03

Originally posted by umr
Here is an HTML version. See if you can get this to work. Try to extract it all to your desktop.

Make sure you change your "Page Setup" to landscape for this one when printing.

BTW, Microsoft provides free viewers for excel, powerpoint, word, etc. which you can download from their website.

Here is the pdf file with UMR's latest setttings. I have taken out the original settings information. I think everyone understands at this point that they should be written down before making any modifications. I have not included the FAQ; I need to update it.

1/29/03: Latest revision is on Page 15...

1/31/03: From now on the File is called "GWXBR Tweaks". The current version is 4.0 and it is posted on page 16 of this thread.

UMR, motjes2,

Thank you for your outstanding contributions to this forum.

motjes2,

re: "I have taken out the original settings information. "

Getting back to your original point for including your factory settings (that being to provide a common frame of reference and a safety net for anyone that forgot to write their factory settings down), I was finding that that ALL of my factory settings were matching yours. I would be interested in knowing if others were finding the same.

Thanks again to you both,
:)

umr & motjes2
The latest tweak updates have got my gw looking sweet!
Whatever you guy's are drinking, I'm buying;)

Originally posted by strike
umr & motjes2
The latest tweak updates have got my gw looking sweet!
Whatever you guy's are drinking, I'm buying;)

What have you done to your set?

All pages except for page 7.

Strike,

What are your impressions?

I made your adjustments to the pro and vivid modes. Now sd has cleaned up significantly. Artifacting is practically non existent, colors are more accurate,and the "washed out" look has been reduced. Should I have to watch a poor pq channel it seems I am able now to use the user menu to make significant changes in the pq. Watched "training day" on hbohd this evening and it was pure eye candy. My dvd pq came around also. I found my problem to be some of my sm adjustments did not write. After downloading the updated file and tweaking today it all came together.
Much appreciate your input and follow up.

Strike,

Did you calibrate the settings that could be with something like AVIA or did you use them directly?

Direct from the specs posted.

Originally posted by strike
Direct from the specs posted.

You might want to at least check the calibration for picture, brightness and gray scale. There does seem to be some variability set to set.