Here are several progressive scan Custom Timing and Resolution strings for the ATi Radeon card, created with Powerstrip 3.30 build 366 and Catalyst 3.1 WinXP ATi drivers, Radeon 9500pro card and displayed on a Mitsubishi W55819 1080i 16x9 HDTV. All are 1080i/ 540p based timings. Scan rate is exactly 33.75KHz, refresh rate is 59.94Hz and vertical line total is 563 for all resolutions. Please note I currently use an ATi HDTV adapter. If you use the ATi HDTV adapter read the notes further in this guide. These timings also worked with a VGA breakout cable connected to the RGBHV inputs of my Mits, and a Key Digital VTCA-2 Transcoder connected to the YPbPr inputs.
BE AWARE THAT NO TWO MODELS OF HDTV WORK EXACTLY ALIKE. FOR EXAMPLE, MY MITS LIKES TO SEE A SCAN RATE OF 33.75KHZ, WHEREAS SOME MODELS, LIKE HITACHI, PREFERS A SCAN RATE CLOSER TO 33.5KHZ. IF YOU HAVE ISSUES WITH ONE SCAN RATE, TRY THE OTHER.
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Copy the entire Powerstrip timing parameters listed below, one resolution at a time. Then, in PS 3--display profiles--advanced timings--custom resolutions--user defined, click the paste button, which will add the copied values, and then click “add”. Powerstrip will tell you if the display driver has accepted the new resolution. You may be promted to reboot first. If so, you will restart at your previous resolution, so you will have to manually switch to the new resolution. Enter the advanced timings screen and adjust as needed. Common first time tweaks include positioning and adjusting for horizontal over/underscan. Remember, to use your new custom T & R, make sure you set Powerstrip 3 (options---preferences) to start up with Windows AND apply settings at start up. Use at your own risk.
For more info on how to use Powerstrip, see the update at the end of this post.
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PowerStrip timing parameters: Desktop 4x3
640x480p=640,152,48,176,480,28,1,54,34290,272

Generic timing details for 640x480:
HFP=152 HSW=48 HBP=176 kHz=34 VFP=28 VSW=1 VBP=54 Hz=60
+hsync +vsync
----------------------------------------------------
PowerStrip timing parameters: DVD 1
720x480p=720,76,40,100,480,29,1,53,31590,272

Generic timing details for 720x480:
HFP=76 HSW=40 HBP=100 kHz=34 VFP=29 VSW=1 VBP=53 Hz=60
+hsync +vsync
----------------------------------------------------
PowerStrip timing parameters: Desktop Widescreen 1
848x480p=848,88,48,120,480,28,1,54,37260,272

Generic timing details for 848x480:
HFP=88 HSW=48 HBP=120 kHz=34 VFP=28 VSW=1 VBP=54 Hz=60
+hsync +vsync
----------------------------------------------------
PowerStrip timing parameters: Desktop Widescreen 2
856x480p=856,87,48,121,480,28,1,54,37530,272

Generic timing details for 856x480:
HFP=87 HSW=48 HBP=121 kHz=34 VFP=28 VSW=1 VBP=54 Hz=60
+hsync +vsync
----------------------------------------------------
PowerStrip timing parameters: DVD 1.5
1080x480p=1080,108,48,164,480,29,1,53,47250,272

Generic timing details for 1080x480:
HFP=108 HSW=48 HBP=164 kHz=34 VFP=29 VSW=1 VBP=53 Hz=60
+hsync +vsync
----------------------------------------------------
PowerStrip timing parameters: DVD 2
1440x480p=1440,144,80,208,480,29,1,53,63180,272

Generic timing details for 1440x480:
HFP=144 HSW=80 HBP=208 kHz=34 VFP=29 VSW=1 VBP=53 Hz=60
+hsync +vsync
-----------------------------------------------------
PowerStrip timing parameters: DVD 2.5
1800x480p=1800,154,96,246,480,32,1,50,77490,272

Generic timing details for 1800x480:
HFP=154 HSW=96 HBP=246 kHz=34 VFP=32 VSW=1 VBP=50 Hz=60
+hsync +vsync
-----------------------------------------------------
PowerStrip timing parameters: DVD 540p
1800x540p=1800,148,96,244,540,7,1,15,77220,272

Generic timing details for 1800x540:
HFP=148 HSW=96 HBP=244 kHz=34 VFP=7 VSW=1 VBP=15 Hz=60
+hsync +vsync
-----------------------------------------------------
PowerStrip timing parameters: DVD 540p
1920x540p=1920,161,104,255,540,7,1,15,82350,272

Generic timing details for 1920x540:
HFP=161 HSW=104 HBP=255 kHz=34 VFP=7 VSW=1 VBP=15 Hz=60
+hsync +vsync
-----------------------------------------------------
PowerStrip timing parameters:
960x540p=960,98,48,142,540,7,1,15,42120,272

Generic timing details for 960x540:
HFP=98 HSW=48 HBP=142 kHz=34 VFP=7 VSW=1 VBP=15 Hz=60
+hsync +vsync
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POWERSTRIP FINE TUNING
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To get an exact scan rate of 33.75Khz, go to the "advanced timings screen", type "33.75" in the horizontal scan rate box and press the TAB button on the keyboard. This will set the scan rate exactly to 33.75KHz and also adjust the refresh rate accordingly. If your scan rate is 33.75KHz and your vertical line total is 563, then your refresh rate should be 59.947Hz
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If you find your desktop has black bars on the sides (underscan), or has a bit too much overscan (image cropping), simply go back to the advanced timings screen and adjust the horizontal front/back porches using the size control buttons: To reduce horizontal overscan, increase the horizontal front/back porches. To increase horizontal overscan, reduce the horizontal front/back porches.

Before making overscan adjustments, click the "lock scan frequencies" button in the advanced timings screen. Now you can make realtime adjustments while keeping the scan rate and refresh rate locked. You’ll probably find that a couple of clicks on the horizontal size control buttons will do the trick.

Do NOT use this method for vertical adjustments as it will change your vertical line total and your set could lose sync after a click or two.
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Keep the progressive vertical line total at 563 (interlaced 1125).
You don't have any range of vertical sizing adjustment, only positioning. To compensate for vertical underscan, it is best to create a custom resolution and add more lines to the vertical line total since the range of adjustment is limited. Try to maintain a 16x9 aspect ratio when you add to the line total. Example: if 848x480p is underscanned, try a custom resolution of 888x500p, using the same timings. To compensate for vertical overscan, adjust using the service menus of your set.
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It is also important to note that the monitor you specify in Windows must be capable of resolving the resolutions you present to the display driver in progressive scan mode. I have used the Sony GDM-W900 monitor drivers because it has a max resolution of >1920x1200p as listed in Powerstrip 3 monitor profiles. Make sure to "disable plug & play monitors". Selecting a high-resolution monitor will also help avoid "virtual desktop", or a side scrolling desktop. Powerstrip will allow you to create your own custom monitor driver. I made a driver for my Mits HDTV based on the Sony specs and is attached later in this thread. If you are having trouble activating high resolutions, try double-clicking on the monitor icon next to the resolution slider in the Display profiles screen, and Powerstrip will attempt to uncap rez restrictions. When using the ATI HDTV adapter, it takes priority over any monitor driver you have selected.
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I use 856x480p @ 540p timings (posted above) for best 16x9 desktop results. The sides are perfect on my set with less than half of the title bar and task bar cropped, quite manageable IMO. Your results may differ depending on your sets’ overscan. Try large icons and a Windows Standard -large- Appearance for a smooth, easy to read desktop and a neutral grey desktop color for even tube wear. There are also utilities available to hide the desktop and mouse completely, such as Icon Hider and BZ (mouse) Hider (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=132570). Powerstrip now features desktop and mouse blanking as well. There are several Front End programs available as well, I prefer MyHTPC.
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ATi HDTV ADAPTER TIMINGS
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I can get the following resolutions to work (at 540p/1080i timings)
with the ATi HDTV adapter:
640x480p
720x480p
856x480p
1776x1000i
1920x1080i
UPDATE: Catalyst 4.2 drivers now feature Center Timing Mode, which allows for more standard Windows resolutions to be displayed. Catalyst 4.6 has custom resolution support for the adapter. Be careful making timing adjustments in Powerstrip, as the adapter seems to want a specific horizontal sync width value, and strange things happen if you deviate very far....the black levels change, making it difficult to calibrate, along with picture distortion during DVD playback. Many of the interlaced resolutions listed below now work with CTM enabled.
YMMV
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Powerstrip dongle 540P/1080i custom timings:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
PowerStrip timing parameters:
640x480p HDTV adapter=640,143,48,169,480,28,1,54,33750,272

Generic timing details for 640x480:
HFP=143 HSW=48 HBP=169 kHz=34 VFP=28 VSW=1 VBP=54 Hz=60
+hsync +vsync
-------------------------------------------------------------------
PowerStrip timing parameters:
720x480p HDTV adapter=720,72,48,88,480,29,1,53,31320,272

Generic timing details for 720x480:
HFP=72 HSW=48 HBP=88 kHz=34 VFP=29 VSW=1 VBP=53 Hz=60
+hsync +vsync
-------------------------------------------------------------------
PowerStrip timing parameters:
856x480p HDTV adapter=856,88,48,120,480,28,1,54,37530,272

Generic timing details for 856x480:
HFP=88 HSW=48 HBP=120 kHz=34 VFP=28 VSW=1 VBP=54 Hz=60
+hsync +vsync
--------------------------------------------------------------------
PowerStrip timing parameters:
1776x1000i HDTV adapter=1776,136,48,240,1000,42,5,78,74250,280

Generic timing details for 1776x1000:
HFP=136 HSW=48 HBP=240 kHz=34 VFP=42 VSW=5 VBP=78 Hz=30
interlace +hsync +vsync
--------------------------------------------------------------------
PowerStrip timing parameters:
1920x1080i=1920,169,56,295,1080,2,5,38,82350,280

Generic timing details for 1920x1080:
HFP=169 HSW=56 HBP=295 kHz=34 VFP=2 VSW=5 VBP=38 Hz=30
interlace +hsync +vsync
----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I cannot stress this point enough: test on your PC monitor first, get a stable picture with acceptable values, connect to your HDTV, then adjust as needed.
As always, results may vary according to manufacturer.
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Here are several UPDATED interlaced custom T & R strings for the ATi Radeon card, created with Powerstrip 3.30 build 366 and Catalyst 3.1 WinXP ATi drivers, Radeon 9500pro, and displayed on a Mitsubishi W55819 1080i 16x9 HDTV. Scan rate is 33.75KHz and refresh rate is 30Hz for all resolutions. Most of these should work with Center Timing Mode enabled (1776x1000i being the exception).
***Interlaced overlay support (VGA) is fixed with Catalyst 3.4 drivers***Center Timing Mode requires Catalyst 4.2 or higher***
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PowerStrip timing parameters:
800x600i=800,279,56,329,600,250,1,274,49410,280

Generic timing details for 800x600:
HFP=279 HSW=56 HBP=329 kHz=34 VFP=250 VSW=1 VBP=274 Hz=30
interlace +hsync +vsync
-------------------------------------------------------
PowerStrip timing parameters:
1024x768i=1024,164,56,220,768,160,1,196,49410,280

Generic timing details for 1024x768:
HFP=164 HSW=56 HBP=220 kHz=34 VFP=160 VSW=1 VBP=196 Hz=30
interlace +hsync +vsync
--------------------------------------------------------
PowerStrip timing parameters:
1152x864i=1152,190,112,218,864,112,1,148,56430,280

Generic timing details for 1152x864:
HFP=190 HSW=112 HBP=218 kHz=34 VFP=112 VSW=1 VBP=148 Hz=30
interlace +hsync +vsync
-----------------------------------------------------------
PowerStrip timing parameters:
1280x720i=1280,125,120,139,720,180,1,224,56160,280

Generic timing details for 1280x720:
HFP=125 HSW=120 HBP=139 kHz=34 VFP=180 VSW=1 VBP=224 Hz=30
interlace +hsync +vsync
-----------------------------------------------------------
PowerStrip timing parameters:
1280x768i=1280,138,96,166,768,156,1,200,56700,280

Generic timing details for 1280x768:
HFP=138 HSW=96 HBP=166 kHz=34 VFP=156 VSW=1 VBP=200 Hz=30
interlace +hsync +vsync
--------------------------------------------------------------
PowerStrip timing parameters:
1280x960i=1280,128,96,160,960,44,1,120,56160,280

Generic timing details for 1280x960:
HFP=128 HSW=96 HBP=160 kHz=34 VFP=44 VSW=1 VBP=120 Hz=30
interlace +hsync +vsync
----------------------------------------------------------------
PowerStrip timing parameters:
1280x1024i=1280,127,96,161,1024,43,3,55,56160,280

Generic timing details for 1280x1024:
HFP=127 HSW=96 HBP=161 kHz=34 VFP=43 VSW=3 VBP=55 Hz=30
interlace +hsync +vsync
----------------------------------------------------------------
PowerStrip timing parameters:
1440x960i=1440,140,104,180,960,60,1,104,62910,280

Generic timing details for 1440x960:
HFP=140 HSW=104 HBP=180 kHz=34 VFP=60 VSW=1 VBP=104 Hz=30
interlace +hsync +vsync
------------------------------------------------------------------
PowerStrip timing parameters:
1600x900i=1600,159,80,249,900,89,3,133,70470,280

Generic timing details for 1600x900:
HFP=159 HSW=80 HBP=249 kHz=34 VFP=89 VSW=3 VBP=133 Hz=30
interlace +hsync +vsync
-----------------------------------------------------------------
PowerStrip timing parameters:
1776x1000i=1776,166,88,274,1000,44,5,76,77760,280

Generic timing details for 1776x1000:
HFP=166 HSW=88 HBP=274 kHz=34 VFP=44 VSW=5 VBP=76 Hz=30
interlace +hsync +vsync
------------------------------------------------------------------
PowerStrip timing parameters:
1920x1080i=1920,169,56,295,1080,2,5,38,82350,280

Generic timing details for 1920x1080:
HFP=169 HSW=56 HBP=295 kHz=34 VFP=2 VSW=5 VBP=38 Hz=30
interlace +hsync +vsync
-----------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------
Ok, by popular request here are some 480p based timings for 4x3 HD sets for the ATi Radeon card. These basically emulate a 480p progressive scan DVD player. They were created on a 16x9 Mitsubishi HDTV in 480p mode and in 4x3 horizontal squeeze mode, so you might have to adjust for horizontal overscan and positioning relative to your own set.
Timings are exactly 31.5KHz scan rate and 60Hz refresh rate for all resolutions.
There is some vertical overscan, but it's not too bad.
Use at your own risk.
-------------------------------------------------------
480p timings-----Radeon Catalyst 2.5 drivers
-------------------------------------------------------
PowerStrip timing parameters: Desktop 4x3
640x480p=640,55,96,57,480,11,5,29,26712,272

Generic timing details for 640x480:
HFP=55 HSW=96 HBP=57 kHz=32 VFP=11 VSW=5 VBP=29 Hz=60
+hsync +vsync
-------------------------------------------------------
PowerStrip timing parameters: DVD 1
720x480p=720,67,96,85,480,21,5,19,30492,272

Generic timing details for 720x480:
HFP=67 HSW=96 HBP=85 kHz=32 VFP=21 VSW=5 VBP=19 Hz=60
+hsync +vsync
--------------------------------------------------------
PowerStrip timing parameters: DVD 2
1440x480p=1440,118,144,218,480,13,5,27,60480,272

Generic timing details for 1440x480:
HFP=118 HSW=144 HBP=218 kHz=32 VFP=13 VSW=5 VBP=27 Hz=60
+hsync +vsync
--------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------
UPDATE: TIPS ON USING POWERSTRIP FOR THE FIRST TIME:

Creating a custom resolution in PowerStrip is actually very easy, but you must have a graphics card that supports user-defined, custom resolutions, and you must know what custom resolution and timing your monitor needs.

These are the prerequisites:

A. You must be using a Matrox G-series, Parhelia, NVidia, 3dfx or ATI Radeon graphics card, with the latest driver. At this time, no other graphics chips or drivers allow custom, user-defined resolutions. Put another way: S3, SiS, Trident, Intel, and ATI Rage and Rage128 users should go no further - you are limited to the resolutions you find in Display properties. REMEMBER THE TIMINGS LISTED ABOVE ARE RADEON SPECIFIC. DO NOT USE THEM ON A GEFORCE CARD.

B. Go to Windows Display properties > Settings, and check the maximum resolution you are allowed there. There is no point in trying to create a custom resolution that *exceeds* this resolution. If the maximum is 1600x1200, don't bother with 1920x1080; if the maximum is 1280x1024, forget 1400x1050. To raise the maximum, you must tell Windows - and your display driver - that your monitor can support the resolution you want to create. Sometimes it is enough to change your monitor type in Windows Display properties > Settings > Advanced > Monitor, and sometimes some driver specific switches need to be set. TRY DOUBLE CLICKING ON THE MONITOR ICON NEXT TO THE RESOLUTION SLIDER IN THE DISPLAY PROFILES SCREEN TO UNCAP RESOLUTION RESTRICITONS.

C. You must know the resolution your monitor wants, and you must understand that not all resolutions are possible. In particular, note that graphics cards generally do horizontal timings in character clocks of 8 pixels, not individual pixels. Unless you have a Matrox Parhelia or early Kyro, your desired horizontal resolution should be evenly divisible by 8, and your vertical resolution should be an even number. If you have a plasma or LCD display that wants 1366 or 852 pixels, you will need to settle for slightly more or less. And modern graphics controllers generate interlaced resolutions with great reluctance or not at all - use progressive resolutions like 960x540p instead of 1920x1080i wherever and whenever possible. ALL THE T & R's LISTED ABOVE WORK ON MY MITS HDTV.

D. You either need to have a multisync monitor that accepts VESA timings, or you need to know the exact timing your monitor wants, or you need to be prepared for a lot of trial-and-error experimentation. All HDTVs, for example, claim support for 1080i - but no two HDTVs are actually alike or look perfect with the industry standard 1080i timing definition. If you don't know what timing your monitor wants, check with others who have the same model as you.

E. Finally, and needless to say, make sure your computer is working properly at 640x480 before you try to add more complexity to it. Don't try to set up a second head/monitor until the 1st head/monitor works very well. If you have a HDTV, set up with a regular monitor before connecting the HDTV. And remember the PowerStrip safe mode hot key - Ctrl+Alt+S by default - in case you run into trouble.

If these 5 conditions are met and understood, you create a custom resolution by following the steps below:

1. PowerStrip menu > Display profiles > Configure > Advanced timing options > Custom resolutions

2. Scroll thru the list of pre-defined resolutions to see if the one you want is already in there - if it is select it, and jump to step 4.

3. If it isn't, enter the resolution you want in the "Active pixels" properties and then adjust the timing parameters in the following order: front porch, sync width, back porch. Only after those parameters are set should you change the refresh rate values. And remember that all these values are interdependent - change one and another will necessarily change. IN THE CASE OF THIS GUIDE, SIMPLY COPY THE TIMING STRINGS AND CLICK THE PASTE BUTTON, AND THE VALUES WILL BE ENTERED AUTOMATICALLY.

4. Click "Add new resolution" and follow the instructions on screen - you will normally need to reboot to see if the resolution was accepted.

5. When Windows restarts, you will still be at the old resolution - go to Windows Display properties > Settings and see if the new resolution is now listed. Note that under XP only resolutions of 800x600 and higher will be listed - if yours is below that, click Advanced > List all modes to see if its there. If it isn't go back and make sure the prerequisites are met. If it is listed - *don't* select it... yet.

6. Make sure PowerStrip is loaded - PowerStrip isn't needed for the resolution, but it may be needed to enforce the timings you specified. Go to PowerStrip menu > Display profiles > Configure and select the resolution and then click "Apply"

7. If the screen syncs and you can see it, jump to step 8. If the screen goes blank, do absolutely nothing - PowerStrip will revert to your old resolution in seconds. OR PRESS THE ESC BUTTON. Then go back to Step 3 above and change your timing parameters - the ones you used before are wrong.

8. If you can see the screen, chances are it is less than perfect and needs fine tuning - click Advanced timing options, and make the necessary adjustments there, keeping in mind that the values here are interdepedent. SEE THE SECTION ABOVE REGARDING CORRECTING FOR OVERSCAN.

Hey Karnis. Thanks for the great info. I hope all is well with you.

Echoing what thorr said...great to see you back, as well as bringing back this thread which I attempted to link to a few times in vain recently :)

Stick around... and HAPPY NEW YEAR !!!

Awesome , so very happy to see you back Karnis :) !!!
-- And thank you for the Update !
--- Jason Berg

Welcome back & happy new year.

Yea! Karnis.... You-da-Man!

Cheers, and A Happy New Year.

Tp, in Torrance

That's great information, thanks for putting it all together!

Maybe this is a little OT for this post, but I'm a little confused about what is going on when you are running a specific resolution at some timing (ie 1080i timing). What is really going on here, does the tv think it is receiving a 1080i signal but you are really running at a different resolution.
Also, the TV I am considering will take 720p signals, do any of these powerstrip settings apply to that, or do I need settings for running at "720p timings"?

Thanks!
Tim

Mr.Pibb,
If you are considering a Sony RPTV it should take the standard 1280x720p timing in powerstrip.
(atleast mine does anyway)
I will say that I don't use this timing much because the picture is pretty fuzzy.

Hope this helps :)

Qyv10,

Actually I was looking at the Toshiba 34HDX82. It's the only widescreen directview that will fit in my current entertainment center. It is hard enough convincing the wife that we should spend $2k on a tv without trying to get her to replace our custom entertainment center! It accepts 480i/p, 720p (upconverted to 1080i), and 1080i. What resolution do you use that doesn't look fuzzy? It's got to be better than the s-video to SD TV I'm using now!

Thanks,
Tim

Originally posted by Mr.Pibb
What is really going on here, does the tv think it is receiving a 1080i signal but you are really running at a different resolution.
Also, the TV I am considering will take 720p signals, do any of these powerstrip settings apply to that, or do I need settings for running at "720p timings"?
Thanks!
Tim

HDTVs could care less about resolutions per se.....they want scan rates and refresh rates they can accept. So you are correct in your assumption...you are running a given resolution (848x480p, 1440x480p, etc) but with Powerstrip you are locking these resolutions at 33.75KHz scan rate and 59.94Hz refresh rate, 1080i-HDTV-safe timings.
If your set will display 720p (not just accept and convert to 1080i), then yes, you should work with resolutions using 720p timings.

Welcome back Karnis, so glad you are back!

Mr.Pibb,
I generally use 1440x540p for the satellite thru the H3D.
I use 1440x480p for DVD (TT 1.5)
I use 900x500 for computer desktop, no overscan.
I only use 1280x720p for computer when I need to hit the "OK" button on screens that don't fit the 500 vert. lines, I switch to 720 then hit the OK then back to 900x500.

btw My sony accepts 720 but DOWNconverts it to 480p.
I don't really understand why it is so fuzzy given the downconvert.
I would think it should look great since it is starting with more info and removing some rather then creating info in the case of upconvert.

Karnis, any idea on this?
Also it's nice to see you here again and thank you for your work on the powerstrip timings.
They have helped me out :)

Downconverting will always look like crap. You are removing 1.5x of the vertical resolution. I'm surprised it doesn't convert to 1080i!

This is the best resource I've found on these forums (and that's saying a lot!) So I'm very happy to see it continuing. Thank you Karnis.

matt

Is there some reason the 1440x480 timings are missing and only 1400x480 and 1800x480 are included? I have found 1440 to be a sweet-spot on my display.

matt

Karnis,
For some reason Sony decided to have the HW series downconvert and have the XBR series upconvert.

Typical Sony :(

Excellent information. I can't get the interlaced resolutions to work and I think it's probably because my current monitor driver is the "default monitor" driver in Windows XP. I can't find the Sony GDM-W900 monitor driver (Windows XP SP1). Can anyone point me to it, or would Karnis be kind enough to share his custom driver (I'm using a Mitsubishi WS-65909)?

Originally posted by wormzer
Is there some reason the 1440x480 timings are missing and only 1400x480 and 1800x480 are included? I have found 1440 to be a sweet-spot on my display.

matt

Sorry, typo on my part. 1440x480p has been added.

You can get the real one from Sony.

:)

Thanks for the timings. I have a Radeon 8500 and a Mitsubishi 55809 so I'm not at all worried that the timings will work. My only question is how do you connect your Radeon to your Mitsu? I can use either the ATI componet dongle or I also have a VGA to 5 BNC cable. Which is preferred? I have been reading alot about this and this will be my second attempt at making an HTPC, I got started but then moved so I got sidetracked.

Thanks,
RCook

Mitsubishi 55819 HDTV monitor driver attached. You can always edit it with Powerstrip 3 and rename it to your HDTV.
I couldn't get interlaced resolutions to work either in XP as I have Radeon Tiling disabled to prevent corrupt 2D displays in Theatertek.
I have used interlaced resolutions for quite a long time and I prefer progressive scan resolutions. Interlacing seems to "dull" the image somewhat (in terms of contrast) and also exaggerates video deinterlacing artifacts. Also, interlaced resolutions sometims acn screw up DVD menu highlights in HW acceleration.
I connect to my Mits HDTV with a KD transcoder as my Yamaha RX V1 has component switching. I would use the breakout cable instead of the ATi dongle. From reading about it, ATI still doesn't know what the hell they are doing yet...which is laughable since I gave them all of my timings! No 540p support means zero overscan control...and DVD playback is disabled >480p unless you rip & strip the DVD.

Originally posted by RCook
Thanks for the timings. I have a Radeon 8500 and a Mitsubishi 55809 so I'm not at all worried that the timings will work. My only question is how do you connect your Radeon to your Mitsu? I can use either the ATI componet dongle or I also have a VGA to 5 BNC cable. Which is preferred? I have been reading alot about this and this will be my second attempt at making an HTPC, I got started but then moved so I got sidetracked.

You can also connect your PC directly to the VGA input on your 55809 - despite what the manual says it will accept 480P/540P/1080i signals. Personally, I wouldn't bother with the ATI component dongle as it just adds another adapter to the chain.

Originally posted by Karnis
Mitsubishi 55819 HDTV monitor driver attached. You can always edit it with Powerstrip 3 and rename it to your HDTV.

Thanks for the driver and other info.

Excuse my ignorance but I don't want to screw anything up. By using the driver you posted will I still need Powerstrip or does the driver cover that?

Wow I guess I didn't even notice that I could use a VGA cable directly into the TV. I just looked up Mitsu's site and the PDF sure does show a VGA input. So the direct VGA input, I would assume, would be the best method of connecting. If I do go direct VGA all I need to do is use the dirver provided by Karnis and in theory I'm set?

This could be very cool, DVD's should look awesome if this works.

Thanks for the answers,
RCook

I believe the VGA input has a res limit on it.
You should check your manual.

:)

Originally posted by RCook
Excuse my ignorance but I don't want to screw anything up. By using the driver you posted will I still need Powerstrip or does the driver cover that?

You still need to use PowerStrip. The driver just gives PowerStrip better information about the monitor it is using.

Wow I guess I didn't even notice that I could use a VGA cable directly into the TV. I just looked up Mitsu's site and the PDF sure does show a VGA input. So the direct VGA input, I would assume, would be the best method of connecting. If I do go direct VGA all I need to do is use the dirver provided by Karnis and in theory I'm set?

Whether the direct VGA input is the best option or not, I'm not sure. That input has fewer video adjustments available than the RGBHV input has (at least on my WS-65909) - sharpness isn't available on the VGA input, for example. My plan is to use the VGA input for the output from my HD tuner card and the RGBHV input for the output from my Radeon 9500PRO. Again, you need PowerStrip - the driver from Karnis just saves you a little work setting up your monitor in PowerStrip.

This could be very cool, DVD's should look awesome if this works.

They will :).

Originally posted by Qyv10
I believe the VGA input has a res limit on it.
You should check your manual.

:)

The manual is wrong - IIRC, it says that it accepts only a 640x480 signal. It's currently showing a 540p signal for me :D. Do a search in the HTPC forum and you'll find several of us who have found that the VGA input supports more than what the manual says.

One final question before I got home and then out for New Years...On the RGBHV (or VGA->BNC) do I need to worry about Sync-on-green at all or does this not come into play when the signal is coming from the Radeon?

Thanks,
RCook

Karnis - just read your post after I had created a thread asking for similar info.

You certainly seem to know your stuff!

I have a WS-65905 that does 480i, 480p, 1080i.

Would your ps_mon.inf be a good idea for this HDTV? I'm after playing a DVD thru PowerDvd > Radeon 7000 > MyHD > WS-65905 in whatever the 'best' resolution would be.

BTW - is the resolution different for different DVDs? I have mostly anamorphic, but would love to see Titanic and The Crow at proper aspect ratio (which I can't do on my stand alone DVD player) unless I go in thru s-video (as this set has no aspect control for progressive scan).

gsr, I put that out there only because I remember reading it when I was considering getting a Mits.

I ended up going with Sony mainly because I couldn't take the red push of Mits.

Just wondering, can the VGA take 1920x1080i?

:)

Originally posted by lescaudle
I have a WS-65905 that does 480i, 480p, 1080i. Would your ps_mon.inf be a good idea for this HDTV? I'm after playing a DVD thru PowerDvd > Radeon 7000 > MyHD > WS-65905 in whatever the 'best' resolution would be.
____________All the monitor driver does is specify the scan, refresh and resolution limitations of the monitor in question. It should work just fine, but you still need Powerstrip to create the custom T&Rs. Read the guide for more info on desktop and DVD resolutions.

BTW - is the resolution different for different DVDs? I have mostly anamorphic, but would love to see Titanic and The Crow at proper aspect ratio (which I can't do on my stand alone DVD player) unless I go in thru s-video (as this set has no aspect control for progressive scan).
_____________I use the same rez for all DVDs...but I use TheaterTek DVD player to control the AR. This way you can display 4x3 LBX DVDs properly on a 16x9 screen.

Karnis - as you use the same rez for all DVDs, what is that rez?

Karnis, how do I use the driver? I am using the same build of Powerstrip, but my config file does not have the headers in your ps_mon file. I am curious, how did you generate it?

I play all DVDs @1800x540p.
HDTV monitor driver was created in the monitor section of Powerstrip, use the drop down window and select "create custom driver".
Then when selecting a driver to use, use the "browse" button and point to the location of that custom driver, in the Powerstrip directory.

Originally posted by Qyv10
gsr, I put that out there only because I remember reading it when I was considering getting a Mits.

No problem - it's annoying when the technical information from the manufacturer is wrong on this sort of thing as it could be a big enough factor for someone to go with a different brand.

I ended up going with Sony mainly because I couldn't take the red push of Mits.

That can be fixed pretty easily (at least on some models, including mine) through the service menus, though that often isn't easy to find out before you make a purchase.

Just wondering, can the VGA take 1920x1080i?

Yes, it's the same timing as a 540p signal.

When I was considering it the only way to fix it was with a filter that went on the red line of the component inputs.
A guy from the *************** made them.

After I got my Sony someone came up with a way to reprogram the red level in the color decoder eeprom.

No big deal as I was already use to the Sony type picture.
I had a 35" direct view Sony before I got my 57 HW 40.
I have gotten use to their high color temps so no loss for me.

Thanks for the reply.
My brother might find it useful as he really likes the Mits type picture.

:)

Here's a tip that makes centering the custom rez so that you have even overscan on all sides of the screen. Use your DVD software to take a capture of the overscan test pattern from Avia, and set it as your desktop background in "stretch" mode, and then you can easily check the overscan while adjusting your custom rez in Powerstrip.

A tip to add to Jeff's.
Don't use the overscan pattern in Video essentials.
It is not centered properly.

:)

Anyone have a custom monitor driver for a Toshiba 57H81 HDTV Monitor (Rear Projection) ?

You can create one yourself in Powerstrip. First, slect the SONY GDM-W900 monitor drivers in Windows. Then reboot and open the monitor information screen in Powerstrip. It should list the SONY monitor. In the options drop down window, select write custom driver. Rename the manufacturer & model to your HDTV. Save it in the Powerstrip diectory. Now change your monitor driver in Windows, this time use the "have disk" or browse button and point to the Powerstrip directory. Your custom monitor driver is located here.

Karnis-

Thanks for your timely post of this guide. I hooked my htpc up to my philips 34pw9818 for the first time last night using your custom timings and it worked right off the bat. I've got some tweaking to do to get the over/underscan under control but the advice you give in the first post has given me a good start on that. Watched "Beautiful Mind" last night using the htpc and it was awesome.

Thanks again and welcome back!

Fran

P.S.
As I understand it, the monitor driver for PS just lets PS know what your monitor wants - it doesn't really affect output. Is this correct?

Karnis, just wanted to say thank you for the timings for the Mitsu. I now have a HD source for my TV! DVD's look stunning, so much clearer, wow. It even passed the wife test, she was very impressed by the picture.

RCook

I assume all the settings listed at the beginning of this thread are for HDTV (16x9)?
Are there anywhere settings I could use on a Barco Retrographics 808s (4x3)?
I just started the thread Need help re custom resolution for Barco RPTV (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=208544)

Thanks for any help, I am completely lost.

PS: If there is anybody in Las Vegas who could help me with it? I have not yet blown my whole x-mas bonus ;)

Welcome back.

I hope all is well with you and yours - your contribution to this (and other) forums has been excellent. I, for one, have missed you.

Thanks again for all of your work.

[Tried to PM you, but that is turned off?]

Thanks guys for the kind words.
Yes Ramick I have PM turned off.....I used to get swamped with PM's and answering them wouldn't leaving any time to do anything else! :)

Welcome back Karnis. :)

Do you know if it is possible to run a custom resolution of 852x480? The refresh rate is not that important for me. I'm having problems bypassing the scaler of my plasma when running 848x480.

Let me start by saying: I have read every thread I can find on doing custom PowerStrip resolutions, including the outstanding guides to be found here. I'm willing to concede that I am, in the words of Dr. Evil, "a frickin' idiot".

I'm trying to get a resolution of 800x600 or above, preferably progressive, to display on my Sony 61HS10 television. The video card I'm using is the ATI Radeon 8500LE, and I'm making the connection via the ATI component dongle. I have the latest version of PowerStrip, the latest ATI drivers, and am running XP Pro.

Since I'll be using the HTPC pretty much exclusively for PC applications (Mario's Lobby suite), it is important that I get no overscan, or as little as possible.

I am throwing myself on the mercy of the forum. If anyone can assist me with specific settings for this combo, or a similar one, I would be tremendously grateful. I have tried countless settings that have been posted here; 95% of them will not display at all on my TV, and the remainder produce overscan that I have been unable to correct.


Thanks,

Mike

Originally posted by Esben
Welcome back Karnis. :)

Do you know if it is possible to run a custom resolution of 852x480? The refresh rate is not that important for me. I'm having problems bypassing the scaler of my plasma when running 848x480.

Doesn't look good. The next available horizontal value goes up to 856. The Horizontal pixel value has to be a multiple of 8.

Originally posted by Karnis
Doesn't look good. The next available horizontal value goes up to 856. The Horizontal pixel value has to be a multiple of 8.

So I'm out of luck? :(

Is it for all graphics cards that the horizontal pixel value has to be a multiple of 8?

Mike, I have a Sony 53HS10, so I assume that they will react very similar to the signals throw at them. I've been using a resolution of 896x504 with mine and I have very little overscan. If you can't get this resolution to work for you, I can get on my htpc and get the custom timing and post it on here. My timings would be for a geforce 2, but I don't think thats too important.

PS- have you tried using a breakout cable and going into your Video 5? Also, are using the ATi's components on video 5?

Karnis,

I owe you big time! I have had my HTPC and Mits 55" since before I even knew to call it a HTPC (over 3 years now). I had tried for a couple years to get custom timings to work on my set without any appreciable overscan or underscan, but always failed. In order to get decent top/bottom scan, I ended up with bars to the right and left. When I used Powerstrip to try to adjust, the picture would always lose sync before the geometry was right. Well, your simple tip of always resetting to 34.75khz as you adjust was the trick!! I now have PERFECT 848x480 in 540p timings with zero under or overscan either horizontally or vertically. AND the timings are identical to my HiPix, so the convergence stays valid (before, convergence was different between the HiPix and HTPC). Either I have been VERY dense to miss this trick all these years, or it was never explained as clearly as you did. 3 years too late, but better late than never.

I am in your debt!

Bob

Asking again:

Are all the settings listed at the beginning of this thread for HDTV (16x9) only?

If yes, are there anywhere settings I could use on a conventional 4 x 3 set?

Thx

Originally posted by videogeek
Asking again:
Are all the settings listed at the beginning of this thread for HDTV (16x9) only? If yes, are there anywhere settings I could use on a conventional 4 x 3 set?

Thx
These timings were created with a 16x9 set in mind.
If you use them on a 4x3 set, they should still work, as they simply emulate an HD signal. So the real question is, what does your set do when fed an HD signal? Most will "squeeze" the image to a 16x9 aspect ratio. Some give you manual control.
Sorry, I don't have 4x3 timings yet....they would be based on 480p timings.
I'll try to put some together some time soon for you 4x3 guys.

Thanks for all of the wonderful info...now a question!

There are a great number of resolutions to choose from. In setting up my new display last night, the biggest problem I had was maintaining the proper aspect ratio within the movie/tv/dvd apps I was using.

If you are using a resolution like 1440x480, how do you prevent the picture from being squeezed horizontally?

Thanks,

Kevin

Originally posted by avekevin
If you are using a resolution like 1440x480, how do you prevent the picture from being squeezed horizontally?
Thanks,
Kevin
The desktop will be squeezed, but in your DVD player, uncheck "keep aspect ratio". This will fill and the 2x-scale the image correctly.

Ok, by popular request here are some 480p based timings for 4x3 HD sets. These basically emulate a 480p progressive scan DVD player. They were created on a 16x9 Mitsubishi HDTV in 480p mode and in 4x3 horizontal squeeze mode, so you might have to adjust for horizontal overscan and positioning relative to your own set.
Timings are exactly 31.5KHz scan rate and 60Hz refresh rate.
There is some vertical overscan, but it's not too bad.
-------------------------------------------------------
480p timings-----Radeon Catalyst 2.5 drivers
-------------------------------------------------------
PowerStrip timing parameters: Desktop 4x3
640x480p=640,55,96,57,480,11,5,29,26712,272

Generic timing details for 640x480:
HFP=55 HSW=96 HBP=57 kHz=32 VFP=11 VSW=5 VBP=29 Hz=60
+hsync +vsync
-------------------------------------------------------
PowerStrip timing parameters: DVD 1
720x480p=720,67,96,85,480,21,5,19,30492,272

Generic timing details for 720x480:
HFP=67 HSW=96 HBP=85 kHz=32 VFP=21 VSW=5 VBP=19 Hz=60
+hsync +vsync
--------------------------------------------------------
PowerStrip timing parameters: DVD 2
1440x480p=1440,118,144,218,480,13,5,27,60480,272

Generic timing details for 1440x480:
HFP=118 HSW=144 HBP=218 kHz=32 VFP=13 VSW=5 VBP=27 Hz=60
+hsync +vsync
--------------------------------------------------------

I'll add these to end of the guide as well.

Not sure what res to set for the Hitachi... any pointers? thanks.

Is it for all graphics cards that the horizontal pixel value has to be a multiple of 8?

Not quite all - although Matrox itself uses 8 pixel character clocks in their PowerDesk-HF software, the hardware itself and their driver will accept single pixel increments...

Originally posted by NathanJ
I can get on my htpc and get the custom timing and post it on here.

I would be very grateful.

Originally posted by NathanJ
PS- have you tried using a breakout cable and going into your Video 5? Also, are using the ATi's components on video 5?

I'm using ATI's component dongle, and yes I am connected to video 5.


Thanks much,

Mike

Originally posted by Ashley Saldanha
Not quite all - although Matrox itself uses 8 pixel character clocks in their PowerDesk-HF software, the hardware itself and their driver will accept single pixel increments...

Okay, that's great to hear. Then atleast there's one option besides the PixelPerfect card, which I'm calling a "late 19-century card". :D
But I have some other doubts regarding Parhelia's performance with games and DVD playback.
And Matrox will probably go bankrupt soon... :(

But I'll ask my brother if he can bring over his computer, which has a Marvel G400 I'll try the custom resolution on. :)

BTW, I could create an 852x480 resolution on my Quadro4 card, but it still only has 848x480 active pixels. :(
I wonder if it could perhaps output 852x480 if I used DVI?

Originally posted by Karnis
The desktop will be squeezed, but in your DVD player, uncheck "keep aspect ratio". This will fill and the 2x-scale the image correctly.

This works for true 16:9 content, but won't widescreen content be stretched?

Kevin

Depends on your DVD player, example, TheaterTek and ZP have complete aspect ratio controls and will maintain a 4x3 image on a 16x9 desktop.

Sorry, I can be a little dense sometimes.

How does the player know the aspect ratio of the display?

Imagine the scenario:

Resolution: 1440x480
Content: 16:9 DVD

Given that the display may either be either 4:3 (TV, monitor) or 16:9 (HDTV) format, and that I don't see a way for the player to determine which it is, how do the players maintain the proper AR?

Sorry for the somewhat trivial questions - just trying to understand.

Thanks,

Kevin

But I'll ask my brother if he can bring over his computer, which has a Marvel G400 I'll try the custom resolution on. :)

Stupid of me not to mention this: only the Parhelia does this. Earlier G-series cards use charcater clocks for horizontal timing....

bump
Someone was looking for 1440x960i timings.
Added to, and revised, the interlaced resolution section of the guide.

Someone was looking for 1440x960i timings.
Added to, and revised, the interlaced resolution section of the guide.

Karnis,

Did you get these timings from an older post you had saved or do you still have a partition running Windows 98? I'm curious to see how an interlaced overlay would compare to todays catalyst 2.5.

Thanks.

I just tested those timings today on WinXP w/ DX9 and catalyst drivers 2.5....of course, I can't get a correct overlay but oh well.
No more win98 for me.

Wayne,

Perhaps you can help us sort out the confusion as of late regarding whether or not we can get interlacing out of the newest Detonator drivers (or the ones before them), and with which hardware. I've had no success on a GeForce 3 but apparently others have, while still others have crippled their ability to do custom t/r at all with the new Detonators. If you have any insight, it'd be more than welcome.


Dan

Sorry, I don't have a GF card anymore so I have no idea. :(
However, I did have interlacing when I had a GF2 and the listed drivers and gamed with them all the tiime. But that was many moons ago. ;)

Hi Karnis,

Thank you very much for the powerstrip timings and sharing your wealth of knowledge....

Most of my HTPC is arriving in the mail this week and we're about 3 weeks from lighting up a new dedicated theater. I would like to run the configuration past you and also welcome comments from others.

Zenith Pro900x forward CRT
80"x60" 4x3 screen

HTPC
Input:
OTA Antenna
DVDs
Output:
Radeon 7500
HiDTV Pro

Zektor HDS4 4-1 component video switcher http://www.zektor.com/hds4/index.htm)
Input: STB, XBOX, & DVD Player
Output: Component into KD-XB

Key Digital KD-XB transcoder
Input:
Component sources in from HDS4
RGBHV in from HTPC DB15 dongle on 7500 DVI
Output: RGBHV out to Zenith Pro900X CRT


There seems to be many ways to configure this gear... which way would you suggest to get the best pq?

Q. Does the HiDTV transcode the VGA signal on the pass thru into component?

Q. HiDTV Pro component out w/7500 on the pass-thru -> HDS4 -> KD-XB

Q. HiDTV Pro component out -> HDS4 -> KD-XB AND 7500 DVI->VGA dongle -> KD-XB?

Haven't purchased the KD-XB yet... waiting on a call from support to see if it only works w/XBOX.

Haven't purchased the ATI component dongle yet, I'm researching if the HiDTV will transcode the ATI VGA input to component.

The Zenith owners manual shows the following:
Horizontal scan freq 15.0 - 50kHz
Vertical scan freq - 40.0 - 100Hz
Retrace Time = Horizontal: < 3.5us 15.0-50kHz
Bandwidth 37.5 MHZ
RGB resolution: 1920x1080i
Video resolution: 800 TV lines

I'm really digging the powerstrip data you posted for 4x3 screens...
Q. Can I run those timings on the Pro900x or is there more tweeking for me to do?

TIA :)
--
FlukeHT

One quick, kind of odd-ball question: Why do you use 848x480 as the 16:9 desktop resolution when 856x480 is slightly closer to actually being 16:9?

I have had a hard time getting 1360*768 working on my SE20hd. Are you ignoring us guys?

Originally posted by bswango
One quick, kind of odd-ball question: Why do you use 848x480 as the 16:9 desktop resolution when 856x480 is slightly closer to actually being 16:9?
848x480 is a default widescreen desktop resolution for Radeon cards. It's just easier to activate it with Powerstrip.

flukeht and TiminMem:
Remember this thread is geared towards HDTVs. I don't have a high end CRT or digital PJ so I can't really help you, sorry. You should try the CRT or Digital PJ forums for more info.

I have a 65" Mits diamond('99, I forget the model name offhand) that I am going to make another attempt to hook up to my tv using a GeForce 4400 (need to make a trip to RS for BNC to RCA connectors first). Are the timings you listed specific to ATI video cards or should I expect success with my Nvidea card?

Originally posted by curtisb
I have a 65" Mits diamond('99, I forget the model name offhand) that I am going to make another attempt to hook up to my tv using a GeForce 4400 (need to make a trip to RS for BNC to RCA connectors first). Are the timings you listed specific to ATI video cards or should I expect success with my Nvidea card?

The majority are Radeon-specific, however, at the end of the guide are some nVidia timings. Be aware that I have not used an nVidia card for about 18 months so use at your own risk.

Originally posted by Ashley Saldanha
Stupid of me not to mention this: only the Parhelia does this. Earlier G-series cards use charcater clocks for horizontal timing....

:(

I'll tell him to leave his computer at home. In another topic I read about a person getting 1366x768 with a Radeon 9000. Can that be true?

i believe there is a Dila timing for 1366*768 @ 72hz for Radeon cards

Hi all,

I've got an ATI Radeon 8500LE w/the component dongle connected to a Toshiba 50H81. I'm running PowerStrip and have the current resolution set at 856 x 480. I can load up higher resolutions, and they're accepted by my video card, but when I activate them, my display reverts to a "pan & scan" format: only a portion of the Windows desktop is displayed, and the rest is displayed only when I pan with my mouse.

Is there something I'm missing? I've got a custom monitor driver configured for my tv, but that doesn't appear to help.

Please help!

Thanks in advance,
gcb

Instead of a custom driver, try the Sony GDM-W900 driver. Or you could try the HDTV driver I posted earlier in this thread....no virtual desktop (for me) with either. What OS are you running? If its Win98, try setting the refresh rate to "optimal". I've seen that lock the desktop in place.

Originally posted by TiminMem
i believe there is a Dila timing for 1366*768 @ 72hz for Radeon cards

Anyone who can confirm?

Thanks for all the great info Karnis, I received my AA transcoder yesterday for my Toshiba 42H82 and your timings worked wonderfully. Mainly 848x480, it was great! Now my question, from what I've read, a Geforce4 Ti4200 is not capable of doing interlace resolutions, correct? Not that it really matters since most people seem to like the progressive output better. My other question is that the Toshiba is supposed to be able to take 720p input and upconvert to 1080i. Is the handled through the HDTV or through a STB? Could I send a 720p signal from my GF4 to the HDTV? Or will the interlace mess it all up? And what are the timings for 720p? I have your timings for 540p but I didn't really see any for 720. One last question is regarding the underscan/overscan, I tried to adjust the front and back proches but then I start getting non-convergence in the corners. Is this normal? Am I missing a step? I wanna impress my friends this weekend so any info regarding any of these questions is greatly welcomed. Thanks to all on this great forum!

-Gitesh

I have some of the same questions as Gitesh since my Toshiba will arrive tomorrow. 540p timings will work for 1080i input, correct? 720p timings would be helpful as well when my Radeon 9500 arrives next week! I figure it may look just as good at 720p upconverted to 1080i, or it may look like crap, but I'd at least like to try it!

Tim

Gitesh:
I don't really know about GF cards & interlaced rez as I haven't used one in almost 18 months, sorry. Sounds like your set does the conversion, but I'd stick with 540p (Mr Pibb=yes, 540p will work for 0180i. They run at the same scan rate, just different refresh rates). It will look better than an interlaced desktop. After you adjust the porches, you must readjust the scan rate back to the desired value. You missed that step. ;)
Sorry I don't have a 720p set, so no 720p timings.
If someone wants to send me a 720p HDTV for testing, however..... :D

Originally posted by gsr
The manual is wrong - IIRC, it says that it accepts only a 640x480 signal. It's currently showing a 540p signal for me :D. Do a search in the HTPC forum and you'll find several of us who have found that the VGA input supports more than what the manual says.


gsr- Can you tell me more about this and paste your custom timings so I can try them? I did a search of the forum and found nothing. Please paste all your timings and let me know how it all works. I have the Mits ws-65869 and have not yet tried any custom settings. I am curious how you made this work!!

I have a Sony 51" RPTV that does the 720 sideconversion to 1080i. I use the HDTV Standard timing for 720p that comes with Powerstrip. The output is pretty crappy though. I use a hotkey to switch to it when there are parts of the desktop that aren't visible (long dialog boxes).

- Nikhil

nikhil,

That's a good idea with the hotkeys. That was my main concern with a 540 line desktop, even 800x600 can cut off some dialog boxes!

Thanks,
Tim

Now I always wondered this. 480p resolution with 540p timing. Is it supposed to be better than 480p with 480p timing ? The number of horizontal lines displayed are still same no matter what timing you are using, I belive, if the resolution is 480p. Then what advantage do I get by doing 480p resolution with 540p timing? Are people doing 480p with 540p timing mainly to resolve overscan issues ?

Ken

Originally posted by kslim
Are people doing 480p with 540p timing mainly to resolve overscan issues ?
Ken
Exactly. Due to overscan issues only about 480p or so lines (960i) are displayed. You almost must account for the vertical blanking area. So by running 480p at 540p timings you (a) eliminate vertical overscan and (b) enjoy the benefits of the higher scan rate 33.75KHz.

Originally posted by thomasamiller
gsr- Can you tell me more about this and paste your custom timings so I can try them? I did a search of the forum and found nothing. Please paste all your timings and let me know how it all works. I have the Mits ws-65869 and have not yet tried any custom settings. I am curious how you made this work!!

Follow the instructions posted by Karnis at the top of this thread - those are the timings I'm using.

Hi Karnis,

I changed my monitor to the Sony GDM and I eliminated the "virtual desktop" but now I have severe flicker. I thought that might be due to scan or refresh rates, so I tried modifying both with no success.

What should I look at to eliminate the flicker?

thanks in advance!
gcb

btw - my PC's running Win2k Pro, latest PowerStrip, ATI Radeon 8500LE w/Catalyst 2.5 and component dongle.

What rez do you have flicker? If its 1920x1080i, that's to be expected. Interlaced rez on a HTPC desktop is pretty ugly. How does 848x480p @540p timings look?

I haven't read this whole thread, but here are some resolutions I've come up with that might be useful to someone.

All of these are for Radeon cards (Radeon 9500 specifically, but I don't think it should matter what exact model you have). I got all these running with a DVI connection to my Hitachi SWX 57 inch TV. The overscan adjusted resolutions are the least amount of overscan I could get on the SWX, while still having no underscan whatsoever.

480p, 4:3 mode

standard
640x480=640,40,96,24,480,8,2,35,25250,3094

overscan adjusted (Hitachi SWX 57)
600x450=600,48,96,24,450,23,2,50,24196,3094

480p, widescreen mode

standard
853x480=853,21,85,106,480,1,3,13,31758,7

overscan adjusted
784x444=784,80,80,104,444,0,3,51,32994,3094

540p, widescreen mode

standard
960x540=960,20,40,92,540,7,1,15,37250,3088

overscan adjusted
880x496=880,112,40,96,496,25,1,41,37823,3088

720p, widescreen mode

standard
1280x720=1280,56,136,192,720,1,3,22,74481,1

overscan adjusted
1200x676=1200,192,136,184,676,24,3,43,76719,3088

1920*540
1920x540=1920,232,40,264,540,2,5,15,82890,3088

Ok something just occured to me as I was working on figuring this all out (besides the fact that all this gained knowledge will be useless in a year or so when this process is plug and play..) Part of my goal is setting up my HTPC is to get HDTV playback from recorded files. However, if I am only going to get 480p (at 580p timings) on my Mits ws-65905, then can I really play back these files at 1080i HD resolutions? For that matter, can normal HD even be played at full rez using a OTA HD card like MyHD? (which I'm currently planning on, yell if I smoking something for leaning towards it).

Originally posted by kslim
Are people doing 480p with 540p timing mainly to resolve overscan issues ?
Ken

Originally posted by Karnis
Exactly. Due to overscan issues only about 480p or so lines (960i) are displayed. You almost must account for the vertical blanking area. So by running 480p at 540p timings you (a) eliminate vertical overscan and (b) enjoy the benefits of the higher scan rate 33.75KHz.

Hi Wayne:

Welcome back.

I assume your response applies to 16:9 HDTVs. I've got a 4:3 HDTV so in order for me to be able to display at full screen without any bars I guess I need to stick with 480p timings? Whenever my Mitsubishi senses a 540p timing it does an anamorphic squeeze and letterboxes the image on my 4:3 display.

Larry

I assume your response applies to 16:9 HDTVs. I've got a 4:3 HDTV so in order for me to be able to display at full screen without any bars I guess I need to stick with 480p timings? Whenever my Mitsubishi senses a 540p timing it does an anamorphic squeeze and letterboxes the image on my 4:3 display. Well, it depends on what you're trying to do. I guess for just the desktop, you might want to stick to 4:3 480p, but for 16:9 and letterbox DVD's, you would want to use the 16:9 540p timing with anamorphic squeeze, so you don't waste scanlines drawing the letterbox bars.

Originally posted by JKohn
Well, it depends on what you're trying to do. I guess for just the desktop, you might want to stick to 4:3 480p, but for 16:9 and letterbox DVD's, you would want to use the 16:9 540p timing with anamorphic squeeze, so you don't waste scanlines drawing the letterbox bars.

Hi John:

Thanks for your response.

Yes, I should have been clearer. For my 4:3 HDTV I use a modified version of Wayne's 848x480p timings with 525 total lines to line-double standard NTSC satellite programming and full screen DVDs.

For anamorphic DVDs I use a 960x540p timing with 563 total lines. This gives me a great image letter-boxed on my 4:3 display.

For my Windows desktop I believe I use a 900x500p resolution with 480 timings. (I'm not at home to confirm this statement.)

For letter-boxed non-anamorphic DVDs I use the 960x540p timing and YxY to correct the squished aspect ratio.

In my initial, poorly worded question, I was trying to confirm that running at 4:3 full screen and using the "480 timing within a 540 timing" to correct overscan were mutually exclusive on 4:3 HDTVs that do the anamorphic squeeze.

Thanks.

Larry

curtisb - you are an early adopter just like me with a no aspect control WS-65905.

I have a MyHD connected to my 65905 and it works in full HD splendor.

Do not hesitate. But one one now. I am very happy.

What the MyHD puts out is not under PowerStrip control. The PowerStrip mods are only for playing DVDs with WinDVD/PowerDVD thru your video card and its timings.

MyHD does 1080i perfectly. And for shows that are lower resolution HD, it outputs those perfectly also.

In my initial, poorly worded question, I was trying to confirm that running at 4:3 full screen and using the "480 timing within a 540 timing" to correct overscan were mutually exclusive on 4:3 HDTVs that do the anamorphic squeeze. If your set automatically does the squeeze for 1080i/540p then I think what you're saying is correct.

Karnis,

This is to thank you for your post over at Rage3d to Catalyst Maker!

I read your guide and every post on this Thread since I saw your message over at Rage3d! thanks.

I have a Mit WS-65908 and using the ATI AIW 8500 DVI to HDTV adapter with no success due to overscan problems.

I have not yet learned how to use your guide and PowerStrip although.

Will the guide and PowerStrip work with the DVI to HDTV adapter?

And should I be using the DVI to VGA adapter and inputing to the WS-65908 VGA port instead? Last time I tried to use the VGA adapter and Mit VGA input I could only get somthing like 640X480 resolution?

Your knowledge and information is the best on the ATI problem.

Jerry:
I do not use the ATi dongle at this time as I have a 9000pro, and I think the dongle is severly limited to what it can do.
So, I have no idea if the adapter will work with the timings I've posted. Sometime in the near future I plan on upgrading to a 9500 and I'll get a dongle to play with & see what it can do.
It may be more expensive but for the best in control, flexibility and no-restrictions I recommend a transcoder if your set only has component inputs.
I have a 55819 mits with no VGA input, but it does have the RGBHV, so if your set has that connection all you need is a VGA-to-BNC breakout cable, add the RCA adapters & you are good to go. All you need at that point is Powerstrip and the guide I posted.

Karnis:

Thanks for the quick reply.

This Mit WS-65908 has a VGA, two(2) component inputs and a DTV input that can be either RGB sync on green or RGB +H&V. From you note I could use the RGB +H&V then as an input from a VGA to RGB adapter. So the AIW Radeon 8500 would have a DVI to VGA to RGB adapter. Darn I should have bought the AIW Radeon 8500DV it has a VGA port instead of a DVI port. I'll try it, only problem might be the text resolutions, I supose the movies will look ok.

It makes one wonder what ATI was thinking about with the HDTV dongle, hell it don't work at all.

thanks again,

Actually Jerry, just use the VGA breakout cable. So your AIW 8500 would go/ DVI to VGA adapter/ to breakout cable/ into the RGBHV DTV input.

I need help I have spent hours and hours and still cannot figure it out.
I have a Mitsubishi 55908 tv and the ati Ati all in wonder 9700 pro card.
I have connected the pc to the tv with the component video cable, and the picture that I get on the tv is good but zoomed in alot the res is 720 x 480.
The only settings that will work on the tv is 480i and 480p when I switch to the other ones it is goes blank. I am confused on the duel monitor settup also.
Should the monitor be turned off and the YpbPr turned on in the Ati displays menu or should the monitor be secondary and the YpbPr primary when I am using the Tv. I am not trying to use both at once.
I have also tried powerstrip 3.3 with no help. I have did the custom resolution at the top with no help it will only except 34 by 60 and that comes out the same as without powerstrip.

I'm no expert, and haven't tried PS. I did get this working by setting YpbPr to Primary in the ATI display page, the turning off the monitor on that page, leaving YpbPr as the only active output. Then I went to the Adapter page, chose 'list all modes' and chose 640x480@60hz. That got the HDTV working ok, although I've still got too much overscan...


----------------


I need help I have spent hours and hours and still cannot figure it out.
I have a Mitsubishi 55908 tv and the ati Ati all in wonder 9700 pro card.
I have connected the pc to the tv with the component video cable, and the picture that I get on the tv is good but zoomed in alot the res is 720 x 480.
The only settings that will work on the tv is 480i and 480p when I switch to the other ones it is goes blank. I am confused on the duel monitor settup also.
Should the monitor be turned off and the YpbPr turned on in the Ati displays menu or should the monitor be secondary and the YpbPr primary when I am using the Tv. I am not trying to use both at once.
I have also tried powerstrip 3.3 with no help. I have did the custom resolution at the top with no help it will only except 34 by 60 and that comes out the same as without powerstrip.

It makes one wonder what ATI was thinking about with the HDTV dongle, hell it don't work at all.

The dongle does work. I have success with this adapter for 720x480 @ 540p timings (DVD), 856x480 @ 540p timings (99.9% square pixels), and 1152x648 @ 720p timings (timings provided by ATI). These modes work fine for me without the virtual desktop panning or overscans.

The timings Karnis provided would not work for me as my HDTV would interpret them as 480p source format. In my case, the problem was in the width of the horizontal sync pulse. I had to readjust the width of the horizontal sync pulse to 1uS (Closer to the HDTV standards I believe).

As to why the ATI driver would invoke the pan and scan mode for some of the custom resolutions listed above (e.g., 848x480 @ 540p timings windowed in 720x480) I can't say. I'm using the ATI Catalyst 2.5 driver packs.

Mad Cat:
I'm not sure if you saw my earlier post but when I read your comments I adjusted all timings to have a vertical sync width =1. Some sets are more particular than other regarding this value.

I was having problems with the horizontal sync pulse width times, not the vertical sync.

Now THAT'S weird! What value did you wind up using? In Powerstrip, the HDTV standard for 1080i has a HSW of 48.

Horizonatal sync pulse time = HSW/Pixel Clock Frequency.

For 1920x1080i mode provided by Powerstrip:
Horizontal sync pulse time = 48/(74.184 MHz) = 0.647 uS = 647 nS.

For the 720x480 @ 540p timing that you listed above (HSW = 64),
Horizontal sync pulse time = 64/(31.590 MHz) = 2.025 uS = 2,025 nS.

For a modifed 720x480 @ 540p timing that works on my setup (HSW = 32),
Horizontal sync pulse time = 32/(31.860 MHz) = 1.004 uS = 1,004 nS

The modified PowerStrip timing parameters that works on my system:
720x480=720,59,32,133,480,31,1,51,31860,278

I found this link on the WWW that discuss the horizontal sync pulse times, but I'm having trouble deciding from which two sets of numbers to use in PowerStrip: HDG-2000 HDTV Analog Component Video Calibration Generator FAQ. (http://www.accupel.com/HDG2000_FAQ_f.html)

aj930 thanks for the reply I have tried using the tv as the primary display and unselecting the pc but the lowest resolution I am able to get is 800x600. I dont have an adapter page, I am connecting the component video cable directly to the ati wonder 9700 pro.

I have read turning the virtual desktop off how do you do that on xp.


Jim


xp, ati wonder 9700pro, mitsubishi ws55908

Is there a way to disable the virtual desktop??
I’m using the Custom Resolution Karnis posted and when ever I try to use anything other than 848x480p I get the virtual desktop.
I have tried both the Sony monitor driver and the custom driver Karnis posted.
I am using
Power strip
ATI 9500 Pro video card
Mitsubishi WS-65908 TV
And I am connected to the TV with RGBHV cables
I would like to use the 960x540p settings but I get virtual desktop, and I even got virtual desktop with settings at 1920x1080i.

Also I had no virtual desktop problems with a gforce 2 video card at any resolution.
Any suggestions on what may be wrong?

Try display properties---advanced---displays, you will see a monitor section, click the large button above the monitor to display the properties, check under the attributes tab and uncheck "DDC"....also check the max resolution, make sure it is set higher than 1920x1080.

Carpose,


"I would like to use the 960x540p settings but I get virtual desktop, and I even got virtual desktop with settings at 1920x1080i.
Also I had no virtual desktop problems with a gforce 2 video card at any resolution.
Any suggestions on what may be wrong?"


I know how painful/frustrating it is to keep seeing virtual desktop when using ATI card. I've had lots of problem like that, and still get that on occasion like updating video card driver. I still dont know why it happens, but I now know some actions to take. Here is what I found out that may help you hopefully,

Assuming you are trying to achieve 960x540

1. virtual desktop symptom1. (Video card is sending 960x540)

Your PC monitor is not able to lock to 960x540, and the monitor shows a virtual desktop. However if you carefully look at powerstrip advanced timing parameter, and if the active pixel is still 960 and 540, then you are fine. In this case, your video card is sending 960x540 signals. It is just your monitor that cannot lock the signal, ending up some extended 640x480 with virtual desktop. If you display this to HDTV, you should not see the virtual desktop. (Oversan/Underscan should still be there)

2. virtual destop symptom2. (Video card is sending some extendet 640x480)

Your video card cannot set to 960x540. Your PC monitor would show a virtual desktop of some extended 640x480. Just by looking at the PC monitor, you would not be able to tell the difference between symptom1 and 2. However again if you look at the powerstrip parameter, you would read 640x480 on the active pixel. This is a problem. Because if you display it on your HDTV, it would still show virtual desktop of extended 640x480. You have to fix this. In my case (mitsu46"hdtv, ati8500), this happens when,

1. I set VGA to secondary device, and DVI to primary device. (dont know why).

2. My driver is screwed up for some reason, like tyring video card tweakers. Usually fixable by a fresh driver install.


So the key idea is to look at powerstrip parameter, confirming whether you are actually sending the 960x540 signals or not. If it is, then no problem when you are displaying to TV. If not, try the fresh driver install, and make sure your VGA is the primary device, (maybe disable all other display such as DVI, tv,etc). There maybe something else, but this worked for me. I think these are valid for other resolutions too.

Hope it helps.


Ken

From the Display Properties->Settings->Advanced page, there should be an Adapter tab, with a 'List all Modes' button that displays more modes. I'm using the component video cable as well, so this should work.

BTW, can anyone help me get Powerstrip working. I've created custom timings, add them, then choose the restart option. The custom settings appear in the 'user defined' area, but I can't figure out how to use them. I'm sure I'm missing something obvious...



Originally posted by djsl
aj930 thanks for the reply I have tried using the tv as the primary display and unselecting the pc but the lowest resolution I am able to get is 800x600. I dont have an adapter page, I am connecting the component video cable directly to the ati wonder 9700 pro.

I have read turning the virtual desktop off how do you do that on xp.


Jim


xp, ati wonder 9700pro, mitsubishi ws55908

Someone please enlighten me?

I have sucessfully configured Powerstrip to display HD signals to my HD TV through my transcoder.

What I can't get working is displaying HD (Fullscreen) images to my HD TV from MyHD tuner card. This card bypasses Powerstrip and is supposed to send a 1080i signal. I either get horizontal lines or a blank screen on my HD TV. My computer monitor displays the image correctly. I have tried every resolution output that's listed in the MyHD software for full screen display. No luck.

I have:

Toshiba 57H81 HDTV
MyHD Tuner card
Keydigital Transcoder w/ VGA passthough

What do I need to do to make my MyHD tuner output display on my HDTV?

Any help would be much appreciated.

Allen ...

Karnis:

Could you give us ( I see others don't know either) a tutorial or where we could get educated on how to use PowerStrip? I have tried several configurations and all have failed, but I think I'm not using PowerStrip properly. For example how does one input and then select the Custom T&Rs you have posted here. Also, I tired to create a custom T&R but it wanted to overwrite the same name as the one you attached earlier in this thread in the .Zip file? I didn't figure out how to take advantage of that Zip file yet either.

Any suggestions on how to test the T&Rs on a monitor before going to the RGB output? My Dell monitor wants to go out of sync with a 33.75Khz horizontal timing? And if it doesn't work on the Mits WS-65908 then how would I get back to a workable monitor output?

I have picked up bits and pieces from this thread on how to use PowerStrip but not enough yet to get it. I also read other threads here with no real good undersatnding either. I checked the PowerStrip web site out but there isn't any help file or how to's over there.

Jerry:
I'll post something soon....maybe not today, but soon.

My POS Daewoo 13" monitor syncs to every custom rez I use on HDTV. 33.75KHz is not a high scan rate. If your monitor syncs to 640x480 or 800x600 at 60Hz it should sync to any of those rez.

Ranger3: Your question is more appropriate for one of the MyHd threads ongoing. Try posting over there for better response.

Originally posted by MadCat
The dongle does work. I have success with this adapter for 720x480 @ 540p timings (DVD), 856x480 @ 540p timings (99.9% square pixels), and 1152x648 @ 720p timings (timings provided by ATI). These modes work fine for me without the virtual desktop panning or overscans.

As to why the ATI driver would invoke the pan and scan mode for some of the custom resolutions listed above (e.g., 848x480 @ 540p timings windowed in 720x480) I can't say. I'm using the ATI Catalyst 2.5 driver packs.

There is much confusion over the capabilities of the ATI HD component adapter. It has no magic powers and only serves to mechanically convert VGA -> component and to signal the video card to output in YPrPb mode. The dip switches may also function to notifiy the video card the capabilities of the display. The limitations of its output resolutions relate to the current Catalyst driver support. While a Radeon card with dongle can be forced into different timings which will give it some ability to correct for overscan in your display, it will not allow custom resolutions. None of the resolutions you have listed above are "custom" resolutions.

Via PM, I have recently spoken with someone at ATI to correct this issue however at this time resolutions other than those supported result in a virtual desktop with panning.

Thanks guys my max resolution was too low and I had virtual desktop symptom2 so I uninstalled every thing to do with ATI and reinstalled just the ATI driver and used the custom monitor driver Karnis posted and no more virtual desktop.

Karnis,

Quick question. A lot of your resolution/timings mention that they are set for 540p timings. I know that in a way 540p and 1080i are the same. But, I am looking to set up my HTPC with a Sony 34XBR800 which (according to the manual) suports component inputs of 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i.

Can I use the setting which have the 540p timings? Will the set see those as if they were 1080i?

Sorry if this is a dumb question. Still trying to figure out the whole powerstrip timings, scan rates, etc.

Also what are the front and back porch settings?

Thanks.

None of the resolutions you have listed above are "custom" resolutions.

RTK, I was simply putting forth the case that the ATI component adapter works when someone was claiming it didn't work at all. I find the adapter very useful for the resolutions that I am able to use with it. I concede that there are some resolutions that you can't use with this adapter.

Bump to keep this on the 1st page in the hope Karnis (or someone who knows) will see my question above. And also because the thread is very helpful and may head off many questions.

Can I use the setting which have the 540p timings? Will the set see those as if they were 1080i? Yes, the scan rate for 540p is the same as 1080i, so it should work fine.

I would also point out that if your set accepts 720p you may want to try a resolution of 1280x720p and see how that looks. It may look great, or if it gets converted to 1080i internally it may not look so hot. Might be worth a try, though.

Originally posted by JKohn
Yes, the scan rate for 540p is the same as 1080i, so it should work fine.

I would also point out that if your set accepts 720p you may want to try a resolution of 1280x720p and see how that looks. It may look great, or if it gets converted to 1080i internally it may not look so hot. Might be worth a try, though.

Thanks. The set converts 720p to 1080i, so who knows what that conversion will do to the computer image. Great to hear about the 540p settings. That will give me a lot more options.

Originally posted by dbett
Karnis,
Can I use the setting which have the 540p timings? Will the set see those as if they were 1080i?

Also what are the front and back porch settings?

Thanks.
Yes, your set should see the 540p timings as a 1080i signal. Some STB's convert non HD signals to 540p.

Front and back porches are the black areas surrounding the desktop image. Horizontal porches are on the left & right, vertical porches top & bottom. You can increase or decrease the size of the horizontal porches to increase or decrease horizontal overcsan.

Karnis, or someone:
I just installed a 9700 pro, with the DVI based ATI dongle. I upgraded from a 8500DV AIW. I'm trying to get some of the custom timings to work on my Zenith (DW60). Installed the Mits driver file (thanks), am using PS, and can get the TV to display 1280x720 no problem. What I am having problems with is getting resolutions like 1440x480, or 848x480 to display properly without the virtual desktop kicking in. I had the same problem with the 8500, but understand the process better than I did before.
Using the custom driver has no effect on my ability to change the refresh rate higher or lower than 60 (ATI properties screen), which indicates some type of dongle restrictions. I do have the option of using a VGA connection from the card to the monitor(it sees a set top box RGB, or a PC RGB). I really would like to use what I have set up (dongle), but would like to be able to try other resolutions without the VDT. Any suggestions will be appreciated.
Mark

Now you know why I don't use a dongle. Too many problems!

Has anyone every had either interlaced desktop or overlay in WinXP with a Radeon 8500 and Toshiba XXH81 series RPTV?

Powerstrip always says it accepts it yet when I "switch" nothing ever changes. I have no problem with the HiPix and interlaced, but the Radeon never can do it.

Interlaced desktop should work, but interlaced video overlay has always been broken in XP. See the ATI interlaced overlay thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=206976) and be sure to send some feedback to ATI letting them know you want this feature fixed.

please ignore any of my previous posts as i some how managed to muddle through getting 1920x1080i though the vga input on my pioneer rptv. this is supposed to be what it is expecting.

now the issue is of course the overscan problem but also a small vertical flicker. i went into powerstrp and tried tweaking vert ( about 30) and horizontal ( 33.75) but as i went to the limit ( of instability ) in each, it didn't improve noticably. i also tried tweaking the vertical and horizontal sync width but still no go. iam using a high quality xvga cable with baluns on it. i don't know what else to try.
both h and vsync are set to + on the radeon card control panel( aiw8500dv) i tried checking composite sync ( how does this work?)

any ideas very much appreciated!

"Powerstrip always says it accepts it yet when I "switch" nothing ever changes."
I've seen this before in XP.
If it does this, back out to the display profiles screen and move to slider to your custom interlaced resolution. Under REFRESH RATE, if it lists as CUSTOM TIMING, then the resolution was accepted. Try switching to it. If it doesn't synce just hit the ESC button to back out.
For interlaced rez to work you must add this switch in pstrip.ini:

[Global options]
DisableRadeonTiling=1

Modify the .ini while Powerstrip is closed. Then open it and reboot. You should have interlaced desktop....still no interlaced overlay though...

Flickering text on the desktop is the norm when using interlaced resolutions.

I've seen this before in XP.
If it does this, back out to the display profiles screen and move to slider to your custom interlaced resolution. Under REFRESH RATE, if it lists as CUSTOM TIMING, then the resolution was accepted. Try switching to it. If it doesn't synce just hit the ESC button to back out.
For interlaced rez to work you must add this switch in pstrip.ini:

[Global options]
DisableRadeonTiling=1

Modify the .ini while Powerstrip is closed. Then open it and reboot. You should have interlaced desktop....still no interlaced overlay though...

Thanks. I already had the hook in the ini but still couldn't get it to work. However, I am able to choose 1920x1080i and click apply on the main powerstrip dislay profile page as you suggested. It does switch correctly for desktop, but I can't seem to eliminate the underscan with the usual powerstrip custom screen. I guess I'll need to modify the custom resolution and apply that until it works.

Karnis,

One slight problem I've had with a couple of the timings, mainly 960x540 and 848x480, is that the "blanking" area alway cuts off some of the desktop on the top and the bottom. Even if I go into the service menu of the TV and reduce the height of the visible screen (this way I can ususally see all the way to the edge of the signal being displayed). If I go into powerstrip and try to reduce the height, it actually starts to sort of creep up and I start to lose mora and more of the taskbar and the top of the screen.

I can also see this on my computer monitor downstairs when I apply the timings. You can visibly see the area of the screen that is displaying the blanking area and the desktop itself, but when I try to reduce the size, it just cuts off more of the window as it shrinks on my screen.

I hope I explained what is going on clearly enough. Am I approaching this the wrong way? Should I be trying to make the desktop larger and adjust via the TV's service menu? I think I tried that and eventually lost sync before I got it to a good position.

Thanks for all your help!
Tim

The blanking area is actually covering up the top & bottom of your desktop? I've never seen that before. The front & back porch controls usually just "push or pull" the borders of the image.

yea, for some reason as I pull the borders of the image out it just starts to cut it off even though I hadn't gotten to 0 on the front or back porch controls. This is with a radeon 9500 and like I said, it does it on my TV and on my computer monitor. I'll try to look at it some more tonight. I'll also post my current timings that at least get me the majority of the desktop displayed. I lose about half of the task bar and an equivalent amount off the top. Left and right are fine.

I'm assuming the ATI controls for height and width are just adjusting the same parameters that powertrip adjusts...am I correct? I haven't played with that yet.

Tim

i added all the custom configs from the guide here and when i used the 1920x1080i as i stated above, the flicker especially on dialog boxes was bad. i tried timing adjustments to no avail. i also just tried your 960x540p and the flicker went to zero but the size of everything got huge. me pioneer says it only takes 1080i through the vga input but it seems to be doing something to the 960x540p signal. also the task bar and sides are cut off and when i try to adjust porches it starts worsening the image. i'm really dense on this stuff so apologize in advance but can you help me nderstand what is going on and how i can fix it? thx

Originally posted by dvimages
i added all the custom configs from the guide here and when i used the 1920x1080i as i stated above, the flicker especially on dialog boxes was bad. i tried timing adjustments to no avail.
That is normal for interlaced resolutions.
i also just tried your 960x540p and the flicker went to zero but the size of everything got huge. me pioneer says it only takes 1080i through the vga input but it seems to be doing something to the 960x540p signal.
That sounds normal too, if the TV is using the 540p signal directly instead of upconverting it, it should look twice as big because there is only half as much resolution available.

Mr. Pibb:
Are you talking about horizontal or vertical porches?

dvimages:
960x540p has a lot of inherent overscan which accounts for all the symptoms you see. It's only real value IMHO is to provide a base timing value to base all other 540p-based custom resolutions on.
To help control overscan, try using the 848x480p (540p-based) HDTV timings instead

Hi-

I have an ATI 9500 w/ hdtv dongle (AA on order, am fedup with this dongle) and am wondering what the right settings are for a 4:3 aspect ratio 1080i resolution. So far I can only get the following resolutions to work:

640x480p
720x480p
1920x1080i (16x9)

unfortunatley I can't get the ATI driver or powerstrip to send my TV something like:

1776x1000 (4x3)
1440x1080 (4x3)
1920x1440 (4x3)

at an interlaced 30hz. the only options are 60hz. everything else results in panning.

Any suggestions?

-Omar

Originally posted by dvimages
but it seems to be doing something to the 960x540p signal. also the task bar and sides are cut off and when i try to adjust porches it starts worsening the image. i'm really dense on this stuff so apologize in advance but can you help me nderstand what is going on and how i can fix it? thx

The task bar and sides (as well as the top) are cut off thanks to overscan, which is why many of us are using modes such as 720x480p with 540p timings as these make use of the porch settings to minimize the effects of overscan.

I have an 9700 Pro, XP, and the newest 3.0 drivers, Sony RPTV, PS 3.3/

I can get a great 1920x1080i using the timings provided.
However, 1600x900 and all other "i" resolutions have severe verticle underscan.

When I try and fix this interactily all of my interlace goes to hell and I get 59hz and of course scrambling screen.

WHat should I do for say 20% underscan verically based on what the current 1600x900i timings are in the first post by the god :)

Originally posted by Karnis
Mr. Pibb:
Are you talking about horizontal or vertical porches?


Vertical. I have no problem adjusting the width, but if I try to adjust height or try to move the screen vertically I alway have some part of the screen blocked off. Basically nearly half of the task bar on the bottom and half of a title bar on top. When try to shrink the screen it shrinks, but it also cuts off more of the bottom. Same thing when I try to expand the screen, it expands but cuts off more of the top. When I start to go in the right direction, powerstrip won't let me move it any lower or make it any tallker. Here are the powerstrip parameter.


PowerStrip timing parameters:
960x540=960,108,80,100,540,0,1,24,42120,272

Generic timing details for 960x540:
HFP=108 HSW=80 HBP=100 kHz=34 VFP=0 VSW=1 VBP=24 Hz=60

Tim

Edit: Well...848x480 with smaller fonts actually looks better anyway, so I'm going to go with that. I guess I just had to figure that out for myself!

Originally posted by shahineo
Hi-

I have an ATI 9500 w/ hdtv dongle (AA on order, am fedup with this dongle) and am wondering what the right settings are for a 4:3 aspect ratio 1080i resolution. So far I can only get the following resolutions to work:
640x480p
720x480p
1920x1080i (16x9)
unfortunatley I can't get the ATI driver or powerstrip to send my TV something like:
1776x1000 (4x3)
1440x1080 (4x3)
1920x1440 (4x3)
at an interlaced 30hz. the only options are 60hz. everything else results in panning.
Any suggestions?
-Omar

I'm not at home so going from memory. Right click on the desktop and click on properties, click on the settings tab, click on the "advanced" button to bring up the ATI control panel, click on the displays tab, click on the "YPrPb" and there should be a blue button which says something like custom settings or resolutions. check the boxes of the ones you wish to enable. (you can select 540p although it wont work). you will probably be asked or you will need to reboot after which the supported HD resolutions should be available.

Karnis:

I may have figured out how to use PowerStrip from your previous posts.

I checked and the manual on your Mit W55819 and my W65908 DTV input are the same specs.

For some reason I am unable to make any of the T&Rs work so far? All I get is blue screen on the DTV input using the RGB cable described below.

I suspect the DVI to VGA dongle on the ATI AIW Radeon 8500 is doing somthing with the sync? The Mits spec says we need sync on green. In PowerStrip Sync on Green is always greyed out? Could it be a signal level issue?

I made a cable using a 15pin connector to three 75ohm coax leads to represent the RGB signals on pin 1, 2 and 3 plus ground on 6,7 and 8. I cut in half two six foot video RCA patch cords to make the three 75ohm RBG RCA leads.

I also have a Panasonic LCD projector I have been trying to input to it too. I get some what of a picture, It doesn't seem to be rolling so I figure it's a horizonatal frequency issue? The Panasonic has a screen that displays H and V frequency the H frequency is always several hertz lower than what PowerStrip is set at?

Any thoughts or comments?

cheers,

Using powerstip, I can adjust my overscan by tweaking the scan frequencies, however I'm not sure how safe it is to do this.

While playing with the settings I noticed that my display will trip into vertical compression mode when I go from 31.5 to 33.75 kHz.

I've also noticed that with some of the timings posted here, that my display seems to go into "ultra-bright" mode. This doesn't seem too healthy so I quickly went back to the defaults.

Obviously, I won't use settings that don't give me a picture on my display, but can I damage my TV if I use not-standard frequencies?

I'm driving a Sony KP-53HS30 with an ATI AIW 9700 Pro.

Please Help,

-Z

Originally posted by zjx2172
While playing with the settings I noticed that my display will trip into vertical compression mode when I go from 31.5 to 33.75 kHz.-Z

Yes, using 33.75 (540p timing) to compensate for display overscan is exactly what Karnis has been describing.

Originally posted by RTK
Yes, using 33.75 (540p timing) to compensate for display overscan is exactly what Karnis has been describing.

but how about the in-betwen timings? For example, I can reduce overscan in 4x3 mode by choosing a scan freq. above 31.5, but below the trip for vertical compression.

Originally posted by JerryWolfer
Karnis:

I may have figured out how to use PowerStrip from your previous posts.

I checked and the manual on your Mit W55819 and my W65908 DTV input are the same specs.

For some reason I am unable to make any of the T&Rs work so far? All I get is blue screen on the DTV input using the RGB cable described below.

I have a WS-65909 (pretty much the same as your WS-65908 but with the integrated HD tuner, I believe) and all of the custom timings posted by Karnis work perfectly for me.

I suspect the DVI to VGA dongle on the ATI AIW Radeon 8500 is doing somthing with the sync? The Mits spec says we need sync on green. In PowerStrip Sync on Green is always greyed out? Could it be a signal level issue?

I made a cable using a 15pin connector to three 75ohm coax leads to represent the RGB signals on pin 1, 2 and 3 plus ground on 6,7 and 8. I cut in half two six foot video RCA patch cords to make the three 75ohm RBG RCA leads.

I also have a Panasonic LCD projector I have been trying to input to it too. I get some what of a picture, It doesn't seem to be rolling so I figure it's a horizonatal frequency issue? The Panasonic has a screen that displays H and V frequency the H frequency is always several hertz lower than what PowerStrip is set at?

Any thoughts or comments?

The construction of RGB cables is somewhat critical. Your description of the construction of your cable and the fact that your LCD projector image with the same cable isn't giving you a great picture suggests that your cable is suspect. In fact, you mention only 3 RCA connectors for the cable - you should have 5 (RGBHV - horizontal and vertical sync are pretty important connections) unless you're using a component video adapter. I'm using RGB cables from Better Cables with excellent results, but any well made cable should do.

If you suspect the DVI->VGA dongle as the culprit, doesn't your card also have a VGA connector? If so, give that a shot and take the dongle out of the equation. Assuming you still have problems, go out and purchase a good VGA to RCA breakout cable from a reliable source such as Better Cables and I bet your problems will clear right up.

Originally posted by zjx2172
but how about the in-betwen timings? For example, I can reduce overscan in 4x3 mode by choosing a scan freq. above 31.5, but below the trip for vertical compression.

stay as close to 31.5 or 33.75 as possible

gsr thanks for your comments!

You may have solved my problem. I have NOT added the H & V sync leads to my cable make up since I was under the impresion that Sync on Green would do the trick? I will give it a try, I have a professional breakout cable with H&V leads but only have tried the RGB, Humm just didn't think I needed the H&V sync leads.... dumb ..

Also, I do not use an external scaller I have been expecting the combination of the ATI output and PowerStripe would be doing that for the HDTV input?

The AIW Radeon 8500 only has a DVI connector on it? another dumb problem by ATI. One has to use the DVI to VGA dongle to get to VGA.

Thanks for the help!

Originally posted by gsr
I have a WS-65909 (pretty much the same as your WS-65908 but with the integrated HD tuner, I believe) and all of the custom timings posted by Karnis work perfectly for me.



The construction of RGB cables is somewhat critical. Your description of the construction of your cable and the fact that your LCD projector image with the same cable isn't giving you a great picture suggests that your cable is suspect. In fact, you mention only 3 RCA connectors for the cable - you should have 5 (RGBHV - horizontal and vertical sync are pretty important connections) unless you're using a component video adapter. I'm using RGB cables from Better Cables with excellent results, but any well made cable should do.

If you suspect the DVI->VGA dongle as the culprit, doesn't your card also have a VGA connector? If so, give that a shot and take the dongle out of the equation. Assuming you still have problems, go out and purchase a good VGA to RCA breakout cable from a reliable source such as Better Cables and I bet your problems will clear right up.

9700 Pro
Sony RPTV
Trancoder (audioauthority)

1920x1080i as provided by Karnis works PERFECTLY :)

However, all other interlaced rez have sever understand vertically.

What should i do to adjust the porches. Whatever I try and do seems to always screw up the display.

Karnis and gsr:

Thanks for all of your help!

gsr's comment on my cable make up was the fix after all. I had not built my VGA to RGBHV with the HV leads since I thought Sync on Green was all I needed, not... I did need the H&V sync leads. The T&Rs now work just fine.

ATI can now take their DVI to HDTV dongle and shove it. I have several computers with ATI boards in them and will now be looking for their replacement going forward, ATI had the right idea but just missed the mark on how to set up a HTPC. I guess all the money for them is in gaming.

Originally posted by sjchmura
9700 Pro
Sony RPTV
Trancoder (audioauthority)

1920x1080i as provided by Karnis works PERFECTLY :)

However, all other interlaced rez have sever understand vertically.

What should i do to adjust the porches. Whatever I try and do seems to always screw up the display.

Thats the way interlaced rez work. Since you have a 1080i display, if you use, example 1152x864i, those 216 vertical lines still need to be accounted for, so they are added to the vertical blanking area. So you don't have much room fro vertical adjustment.
For adjusting horizontal porches, adjust a click of two, and make sure you readjust the h-scan rate back to the desired value.

Is 1280x720P listed in here somewere?

Since these timings are designed for a 1080i HDTV, no 720p T&Rs have been tested.
However, here are the Powerstrip 1280x720p HDTV timings:
-------------------------------------------------------------------
PowerStrip timing parameters: 720p HDTV
1280x720=1280,80,40,248,720,5,5,20,74137,7

Generic timing details for 1280x720p:
HFP=80 HSW=40 HBP=248 kHz=45 VFP=5 VSW=5 VBP=20 Hz=60
-hsync -vsync
-------------------------------------------------------------------
I tested it on my LCD flat panel & it synced. However, if you have problems on your display, try setting the hsync & vsync to "+".

So Karnis,

Is it possible to get a full screen 1600x900i? It looks on my 16:9 TV that I have an anamorphic squeeze :) going on vertically.

The whole picture is squished in the middle of the display. All the lines look to be there. So my desktop looks like it is a 2.35 aspect movie -best way to describe it.

So is 1600x900i just not possible? It would be great for games on my 9700 Pro with 2x AA

You want a 1600x900i that does not trigger the anamorphic squeeze, right? So it must be at 31.5KHz scan rate (480p timings) but at 30Hz. I haven't tried those timings yet but I'm sure its possible.

Karnis:

Looks like I am missing something (again) fundamental about the HD monitor timings. You mention that you are not including T&R's for 720p modes on a 1080i monitor. So what mode is my MITS 65905 running in when I am watching ABC (1280x720p) from my DTC-100? Does the DTC-100 always scale the video to 1080i?

Does the DTC-100 always scale the video to 1080i?Yes

The DTC 100 displays 1080i native, scales 720p to 1080i and all other sources to 540p.

Karnis, you've solved a mystery I could never quite explain that being why my DTC-100 always seems slightly better than other tuners for SD or 480p source material. The DTC-100 output matches the native resolution of my display.

Karnis:

Thanks. Now the discussion(s) on dscaler is making more sense. On the MITS WS65905 , in the Advanced Setup Menu you can choose 480p or 960i. Any idea how/when this applies? I have never noticed changing it to have any effect.

"480p or 960i" applies to NTSC sources. You can select if 480i sources are converted to 480p or 960i.

So does the mits display 1080i input as 1080i or is a 1080i input downconverted to 960i?

It sounds as if the latter is the case. What the native resolution of that display?

"480p or 960i conversion" applies to NTSC sources...S-video, composite etc. It does not apply to ATSC DTV signals.
A 1080i ATSC signal is displayed as 1080i.
A 480p ATSC signal is displayed as 480p.
A 720p ATSC signal is out of range for the Mits and must be converted by the STB to 480p or 1080i.

Thanks Karnis.

For my Hitachi
540p or 1080i conversion applies to NTSC sources, 480p and 720p
A 1080i ATSC signal is displayed as 1080i.
The native resolution (really the only resolution) is 540p.

So since the mits set can do 480p, 960i, and 1080i what is the native resolution of the display?

My Mitsubishi syncs to 31.5 and 33.75 KHz horizontal scan rates, meaning it can natively display 480p, 540p, and 1080i. That is part of the nature of CRT based displays, they are not inherently single native resolution devices like digital displays are. For whatever reason (probably simplicity and cost reduction) Hitachi chose to support 33.75 KHz only.

Thanks Ron, that makes total sense.

Have used Karnis' resolution and timings settings as well as what's preconfigured in PowerStrip. The preconfigured 960x540 seems to be a better fit for my stuff. Have tweaked both these resolutions mercilessly (front porch, back porch, etc.) and not found a solutioin to:

A white horizontal line at the bottom of the cropped image on both my PC monitor and the HDTV. The white line is (guessing) about 3 or 4 pixels in height. Most noticible on DVD playback

Video card is Radeon 7500, running Win 98 SE on Soyo SY-K7V Dragon plus mb with AMD Athlon XP 1600.

Monitor is a RCA D36TF30 direct view - it is a 4:3 model with a 16:9 mode switch. Using VGA from PC to RCA.

Any thoughts on how to get rid of the white line?

One other thing. I'm pretty much a PowerStrip rookie.

Try adjusting the vertical sync width a few notches.

Karnis:

I tried adjusting the vertical sync width a few notches. Didn't get rid of the line in either your recommended settings, or the preconfigured settings.

With your resolution and timings (VFP=7, VSW=1, VBP=15, Hz=60), , the white line is slightly below the black cropping border. Kind of embedded slightly into the bottom black crop.

Using the following vertical settings (VFP=2, VSW=2, VBP=31, Hz=60), the white line appears to be on the border of the bottom crop.

I have not upgraded my Radeon 7500 drivers since I installed the card (about 14 months ago). Wonder if that could be a part of it?

Not sure what to try next.

I'm getting clear ghost characters on menus using a Sapphire Radeon 9000. I've tried several settings including the recommended 848 by 540.
Any thoughts?

What kind of VGA cable & are you using any kind of video switcher? Ghosting is usually associated with improper impedance matching...poor cabling (not 75 ohms) and low quality switchers can do this....I saw your post but I have no problems with my built by radeon 9000 pro.

Originally posted by Karnis
What kind of VGA cable & are you using any kind of video switcher? Ghosting is usually associated with improper impedance matching...poor cabling (not 75 ohms) and low quality switchers can do this....I saw your post but I have no problems with my built by radeon 9000 pro.

I bought the cable from digital connections. VGA to 5 BNC. No switcher.

Those are HQ cables.
You might get better help for one of the PJ forums, I only know about HDTVs....and even that is marginal!

I think so.

1 - VGA to 5 RCA(HD15M5R6) - $39.00

Originally posted by Karnis
Those are HQ cables.
You might get better help for one of the PJ forums, I only know about HDTVs....and even that is marginal!

This is on MITS 46809

Have you tried adjusting the sharpness control in the user menus or the scan velocity modulation in the service menus?

Originally posted by Karnis
Have you tried adjusting the sharpness control in the user menus or the scan velocity modulation in the service menus?

I haven't. Sharpness control sounds easy enough. I've never ventured or know how to get into the service menu.

Sharpness should be at about 30-40% on your set. Bring it down to zero then increase until text from PC develops halos, then back off a bit.

Great post and settings!

My Mitsubishi Diamond HDTV claimed to only work in 640x480 VGA but most of the settings you have posted worked fine. DVDs running at 1800x480 with PowerDVD look excellent!

-John

<bump>
Added new Custom Resolution:
---------------------------------------
PowerStrip timing parameters: DVD 1.5x scaling
1080x480p=1080,88,80,104,480,29,1,53,45630,272

Generic timing details for 1080x480:
HFP=88 HSW=80 HBP=104 kHz=34 VFP=29 VSW=1 VBP=53 Hz=60
+hsync +vsync
---------------------------------------------
Tested with AVIA for clean scaling, no artifacts in 6.75MHz anamorphic circle
---------------------------------------------
Why don't you ATi HDTV adapter users try this out and see if has virtual desktop? TIA.....

Hi Karnis,

Back to basic, I've been thinking about this for a while, and still cant get it. What does high scan rate buy me ? I mean I understand you run 480p with 540p timing to fix the overscan and enjoy the 33.75Khz scan rate. But what does 33.75Khz buy me over regular 480p timing(forgot the scan rate for 480p). Isnt scan rate a frequency of a horizontal line drawing. Hence to make it 30 frame per second, scan rate has to be such that,

1/(scan rate) * (active # of horizontal line + associated blanking, etc) = 1/30 frame/sec

1/30 frame/sec is a fixed number. So if you change the scan rate(33.75Khz 540p), and keep the active # of horizontal lines to 480p, you must increase the # of blanking lines. This means that time you saved drawing a line using a higher scan rate, goes to blanking. You still end up a frame that consists of 480p lines in 1/30 sec. So I cant imagine how it is supposed to improve the picture... Well, using higher scan rate actually looked better on my set, and dont understand why...

Ken

"Well, using higher scan rate actually looked better on my set, and dont understand why... "
Welcome to my world!
I just do what I learned here. It looks better and I don't ask why! :) :D

Karnis,

a simple question from someone new to HTPC, but have been following this forum for a while. I should understand this by now, but hey...

(I am using ATI Radeon 9700 AIW with component dongle going to a Sony 32KVHS500)

when you refer to changing a resolution within a (480p or 540p) timing, does that 540p timing ONLY refer to the scan rates (33.75 kHz for 540p and 60Hz)? Is that why in all of your Radeon Powerstrip timing parameters, you list kHz=34? Help me out if I'm wrong about this.

Now, setting a resolution within those "timing parameters" - everytime I try to switch resolutions, Pstrip 3 drastically changes both my vertical and horizontal rates. Is that why you suggest going into pstrip.ini and copying the entire string from your guide - so it forces all of the settings into exactly what you want them to be?

ANy help or enlightnment you could give would be helpful. I have tried to make my way through some of these basic issues but have come up slightl confused.

Dirk

Originally posted by dakvanslam
when you refer to changing a resolution within a (480p or 540p) timing, does that 540p timing ONLY refer to the scan rates (33.75 kHz for 540p and 60Hz)? Is that why in all of your Radeon Powerstrip timing parameters, you list kHz=34? Help me out if I'm wrong about this.

______________Yes, I am forcing all these 480p resolutions to run at HDTV safe timings, 33.75KHz scan rate & 59.94Hz refresh rate...default timings for 960x540p.

Now, setting a resolution within those "timing parameters" - everytime I try to switch resolutions, Pstrip 3 drastically changes both my vertical and horizontal rates. Is that why you suggest going into pstrip.ini and copying the entire string from your guide - so it forces all of the settings into exactly what you want them to be?

_____________You don't need to edit the pstrip.ini, just copy the timing string, then go to the custom resolution screen and click the paste button. This will enter the values, click on "add" and & follow the on screen prompt.

Thanks, Karnis - that helps a lot. A couple more simple questions...

1) The vertical and horizontal refresh rates for each of your timings strings - they are contained in the five digit pixel clock parameter, correct? Or do I have to set the frequencies manually?

2) I am one of those odd birds who is using a 4x3 HDTV - why is it that I have to use 480p based timings and not 540p timings? My TV will accept 720p and upconvert to 1080i (which is really a downconversion to 540p, no?) - so doesn't that mean I could use a 45kHz frequency? I am obviously a little confused as to what detemines what "timings" I have to use. The main reason why I ask is that I notice for the 540p timings in your guide, you give T&Rs for a wide range of screen resolutions (which I understand now how those are different from timings). However, for the 480p timings for 4x3 sets, you only give T&Rs for a 640x480 resolution (desktop). Is there a real limitation there, or is that simply because you are personally using a 16x9?

Thanks for all your help in advance - this is a real education.

D-

1) Correct, all parameters including pixel clock are built into the timing strings.
2) Yes, my timings are primarily for 16x9 1080i sets. With 4x3 sets and users who want fullscreen, you are just limited by the nature of the set. You could do 640x480, 720x480 but above that you distort the icons and desktop. 1440x480p is good for DVD only. Not much you can do vertically either. You have a lot more flexability with a 1080i set (and a true 720p set as well). You wont find a 1080i desktop very pleasing so it doesn't make sense to have a 720p converted to 1080i desktop....try it & see what happens! My set does not accept 720p so I don't have much experience with it.

Well, I guess I now know way more about PowerStrip than I ever wanted to (I have been messing with it quite a bit) :-). I have had good success with getting numerous 480 modes to work. I have found that I cannot remove excessive vertical overscan without losing synch, particularly in the 540 modes. myHD and DTC-100 have about 1/2 of the station id cutoff in the vertical direction in 1920x1080i DTV mode which makes me believe this needs to be adjusted with the MITS service menu, which I don't know how to use. I am guessing my TV (MITS WS-65905) needs some professional adjustment. Does this sound right to you folks? If so, does anyone know how to make the adjustment in the service menu?

keith

2/10/03: Yup, the overscan was out of adjustment, required tweaks in the service menu. Powerstrip timings are very happy now :)

You might try the Home Theater Spot forum, they have a lot of good info on service menu tweaks for Mits HDTVs.

After playing with all kinds of resolutions posted here, the only one that works well is 856x484.
640x480 doesn't provide a workable desktop since it's so big and 1080x480 gives black side bars during DVDs.

The strange thing is that when I bring up the shutdown menu, my rptv starts buzzing. It doesn't happen at 1080x480. It also buzzes when I try to drag the dockable taskbar on the bottom or a window. It might have something to do with clicking on the edge of the rptv. I'm not sure.
Can someone please enlighten us on this phenomenon and give your opinion on whether it's bad for the rptv or not.

I have a Pioneer Elite 530HD which is suppose to due true 720p. I'd figured a rptv like this would be compatible with a lot of powerstrip timings but I'm either wrong or I'm lost. I'm also using a ATI Radeon 8500DV and connecting to the rptv via a DVI cable.

Thanks for your response.

If the ATI drivers don't think you're connected to a TV because you're using the DVI interface you might be able to get some of the greater than 480P resolutions to work.

However, if it does somehow figure out you're connected to a TV I think you're hosed. From what I have been able to conclude there are only 4 legal resolutions in the ATI driver for connecting to a TV.

These are: 640x480, 720x480, 856x480, 1920x1080. The 480s are all progressive, and can be made to work with 540P timing, and 1080 is interlaced. By tweaking the total number of pixels and front and back porches you should be able to get rid of any overscan but the driver will limit the nubmer of active pixels.

When you go into the desktop properties panel, advanced settings, displays tab, what does type of display does it say you are connected to?

Originally posted by Karnis
Sharpness should be at about 30-40% on your set. Bring it down to zero then increase until text from PC develops halos, then back off a bit.

Bringing the user sharpness to zero gets rid of the effect. Perhaps I need a calibration using the AVIA disk.

I also run a radeon 32 DDR on my home pc (not my htpc) and if I look real close I notice the same slight clear ghost of a character on the Mits CRT. I only notice this on menus so perhaps its a windows font problem or a radeon problem. It's not that noticeable on the CRT, most likely due to text size.

does anyone have any insight on the buzzing problem while dragging a window or task bar towards the top or bottom?

hey jvincent,
I checked last night and my radeon thinks i'm connected to an lcd panel since i'm using the dvi connector.

Cool. Not that it was ever in doubt, but the next TV will definitely have DVI as a requirement.

Originally posted by jlui
hey jvincent,
I checked last night and my radeon thinks i'm connected to an lcd panel since i'm using the dvi connector.

What TV?

Powerstrip newbie here (which will become blantantly obvious in a second).
* I am about to hook up my new HTPC to my widescreen mitubishi. I know that there are things that can ruin my tv, if I am not careful. What specifically should I worry about? In other words, if I asked you to come over to my house and told you to break my tv using only powerstrip, what would you do?
* I see that I should try out the settings on a real computer monitor first. How is it that this is possible? Just because a setting works on my monitor, does that mean it will work on my widescreen? Is how it looks on my monitor any indication of how it will look on my tv?
* Is it possible to have a good (great??) looking windows desktop on the TV? I see a lot of people talking about fliccker, overscan, poor resolution, etc.
* I tried using the paste function for some of the timings in the first post here. Some don't seem to paste at all. I push paste and nothing happens. For others, it works fine. Primarily, it seems that the sections for the HD widescreen (the *second* section) won't work. They are syntactially different from the first section. Is that why, or am I screwed up?

Sorry for all the questions, but I just want to figure this stuff out a bit more before I get started.

Originally posted by Karnis
<bump>
Added new Custom Resolution:
---------------------------------------
PowerStrip timing parameters: DVD 1.5x scaling
1080x480p=1080,88,80,104,480,29,1,53,45630,272

Generic timing details for 1080x480:
HFP=88 HSW=80 HBP=104 kHz=34 VFP=29 VSW=1 VBP=53 Hz=60
+hsync +vsync
---------------------------------------------
Tested with AVIA for clean scaling, no artifacts in 6.75MHz anamorphic circle
---------------------------------------------
Why don't you ATi HDTV adapter users try this out and see if has virtual desktop? TIA.....

no virtual desktop, but still a sh!tload of overscan........ on my hitachi 43uwx10b.. i still don't have a resolution that is higher then 480p and get clear text. . . . .

[edit] left and right overscan.. no up and down overscan.. radeon 8500dv w/ hdtv dongle

aveKevin,
It's the Pioneer Elite 530HD.
The desktop looks great at 1080x480p but when there is a lot of small text on the screen, I hear a slight buzz. I'm not sure if this is because the guns are working overload and trying really hard to focus. I hope I don't kill my tv.

Another newbie to HTPC so please bear with me:

Based on the info I've read so far on this thread, I'm trying to use the VGA port on my Mits 65857 w/ G4 4200 and have so far only been able to get a signal with X*480 settings. I see 960*540 and 1920*540 as available settings on the resolution scale, but no luck getting them to display. I think I'm missing something. I've been able to get higher res thru the comp. cables in the past, but gave up since I didn't want to use a switcher.

When I read that the VGA port is able to handle 480p, 540p and 1080i, does that refer only to the timings (33.75 and 31) or should I actually be able to set the display to something other than 480p? Meaning, if I can get X*480 to display with 540p timings, that's what's meant by getting a 540p signal?

Again, please excuse the ignorance. I've read thru this thread at least 3 times and am willing to reread if someone has answered this question.

Thanks,
Tony

When I read that the VGA port is able to handle 480p, 540p and 1080i, does that refer only to the timings (33.75 and 31) or should I actually be able to set the display to something other than 480p? Meaning, if I can get X*480 to display with 540p timings, that's what's meant by getting a 540p signal? Unless it has changed on the newest models (and your experience seems to indicate that it has not), the VGA port on the Mits RPTV's can only handle 480p. You'll need to use an RGBHV breakout cable to connect to the DTV input if you want to get 1080i/540p timings.

Thanks for the response, but I was going by the following post:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=1692580#post1692580

Originally posted by gsr
You can also connect your PC directly to the VGA input on your 55809 - despite what the manual says it will accept 480P/540P/1080i signals. Personally, I wouldn't bother with the ATI component dongle as it just adds another adapter to the chain.

I'm using a 65857 (2000)

Tony

Sorry to interrupt, but could someone please take a look at the questions I posted two days ago in this thread. I'm not trying ot be rude or pushy, but there is no way to ask without sounding that way :)

-Just a newbie trying his best to learn.

I am relatively new here, also, and can relate to your unanswered questions. Most of what you asked has already been answered in this thread, and others. Seek and you will find.
I have a Zenith RPTV, and I haven't broken it yet. Even after having some unreal garbage displayed after changing my timings to something it didn't like. My experience has been to try different timings until you find something that works, and looks good.
If you are using an ATI card/dongle setup you will run into OVERSCAN problems, but there are settings that will work-I used 1152x648, which is the ATI optimized setting for 1280x720. YMMV
Keep trying, it will work.

Mark

mr b,

Like I said, on the 05 and 07 models, it's widely documented that the VGA port is limited to 480p, and your experience seems to bear that out. Maybe something was changed on the 09 models (which is what gsr is using). But you don't need a dongle or a transcoder because the Mits has RGBHV input so just get a breakout cable and you'll be set.

Thanks Jeff. Looks like I'm gonna have to use some kind of switcher.

Originally posted by JKohn
mr b,

Like I said, on the 05 and 07 models, it's widely documented that the VGA port is limited to 480p, and you're experience seems to bear that out. Maybe something was changed on the 09 models (which is what gsr is using). But you don't need a dongle or a transcoder because the Mits has RGBHV input so just get a breakout cable and you'll be set.

I have no experience with the 05 and 07 models, but on the 09 and (I'm pretty sure) the 08 models, the VGA inputs supports 480p, 540p, and 1080i signals. I'm using the VGA input for the output from my AccessDTV card set to 1080i and the DTV input for the output from my Radeon 9500 Pro set to various resolutions from the list Karnis posted at the top of this thread depending on what I'm doing. I have also tested the VGA input connected to the 9500 Pro at the same resolutions (various 480p, 540p, and 1080i timings) and they all work.

Thanks GSR. I guess I was just assuming all the VGA ports had the same capabilities.

Tony

Karnis - Does the refresh rate affect how audio and video are kept in synch when playing a DVD?

I have no perceptable audio dropouts or artifacts of any kind when playing DVDs, but every now and then I can see the video jump forward a fraction of a second.

I'm running 720 x 480 at 540p timings with my scan rate at exactly 33.750 - but my refresh rate is at 59.947.

Do I need to get the refresh to exactly 59.940 - and will this make any kind of difference?

Karnis - in the Advanced Timing Options of Powerstrip - I can see buttons with + and - for Horizontal and Vertical under the Synchronization section.

Also, Composite synch and Interlaced (I know that the Interlaced does, but I have no clue as to Composite).

And several options such as 'lock total geometry' and 'lock scan frequencies'.

Any tips on the best way to use these features of PowerStrip?

not to digress, but has anyone found the best workable timing for playing counterstrike on the rptv?

Ok, this is pretty cool stuff.

I will be using a WS-55807 so I will need VGA to BNC with the RCA Adaptors.

Question is if I want to play PC games on my HDTV will they look good? How good, as good as a monitor? I thought I saw that it said the interlaced doesnt work with gaming?

Let me know!!!

not to burst your bubble, but you can't play a lot of good games onyour monitor because games like counterstrike will revert to regular monitor resolutions (640x480,800x600,1024x68,etc..) which won't work on you rptv.
you can get 640x480 to work but you'll have overscan and who wants to play in that resolution anyways. i haen[t found a way around this yet.

i just found out that matrix doesn;t work in either powerdvd, windvd, or cineplayer1.5., Kinda bummed out. It works fine on my stb. I'm having second thoughts on thiswhle hp thing. i had ihed i'd never put so much money into it, no it's too late to go back, might as well charge forward.

jlui,

I've gotten Medal of Honor, RTCW to work fine at HDTV resolutions. I've heard of others getting counterstrike and halflife working as well. You just have to enter the correct settings into their .cfg files.

Matrix plays fine on my system, but I understand your frustration. I finally have a totally stable system with no DVD stutters and smooth gameplay. It took a lot of time (which my wife wasn't too happy about ;) ). Now I only wish I could get slightly higher vertical resolutions without going interlaced. I don't want to slow my gaming down by disabling memory tiling!

Tim

Why does Karnis (the creator of this guide) use a transcoder on his Mitsu 55819? Other posts in this same thread seem to indicate he could do several other (cheaper) options - use the VGA in for 480P/540P/1080i signals on the 9 Mitsu models
or
use a VGA breakout cable since the TV has an RGBHV input
or
use a the DVI (or VGA) to component video ATI dongle (I realize people have had problems with this setup though).

I have a Mitsu 55859 that I'd like to setup with my HTPC (currently a GF3 Ti 200 in it, but I may put a Radeon in it). What should I use in my TV? Transcoder, vga breakout, vga, or dongle?

Which is easiest?

Which is provides the best quality?

My goals would be to output a 1080i signal from the AIW 8500DV through the DVI->Component dongle to handle:
-DVD playback (and perhaps VCDs / DivX videos)
-PC Gaming in HD (is that possible? - what resolutions?)
-As a PVR for antenna (output to the same 1080i input on my TV?)
-Maybe eventually for use as a PVR w/ HDTV. I might eventually get a myHD card for doing this.

Thoughts? TIA,
--Kyle

Why does Karnis (the creator of this guide) use a transcoder on his Mitsu 55819? I believe he's using the component-switching capabilities of his receiver, so he needed a YPrPb signal not RGB.

But otherwise you would be correct, you don't have to use YPrPb with the Mits, RGBHV works too.

Hey Mr. Pibb,
The Matrix issue is a known fact and is usually due to the decoders. This happens when it transitions from chapter 20 to chapter 21.
Probably going from one side to another?
What setup do you have, that will help debug my system.
I'm also having problems with Radeon's hardware acceleration, when turned on, i get green dashes across the screen, but doesn't happen when i use software istead.

Do you know where I can learn more about getting counterstrike to work in these resolutions? Thanks.

For more vertical resolution, have you tried, 1280x720p @ 45Khz, if your rptv accepts it.
(It's funny how pioneer calls their rptv a monitor...)

The Matrix issue is a known fact and is usually due to the decoders.I watch the matrix several times a year and have never had any problems with it. Currently I'm using TT 1.5, which uses the Sonic filters.

Maybe your disc is bad, or your DVD-ROM drive doesn't like something about that disc. In the case of the latter you might want to see if there's a firmware update available for your drive, sometimes issues like this are addressed with new firmware.

Karnis,
Are you still recommending 1440x480 for viewing DVD's? What is your current favorite resolution for strictly watching dvd's? I have been using 1440x480 and enjoy it a lot. I can't see any difference in picture quality between 1440 and 720. What is the purpose of the 1, 1.5, and 2.0 dvd timings you list? Do different format DVD's look better with different timings? In other words would the matrix look good with one timing and lord of the rings look better with a different timing?

Note to Mitsubish owners! I read on another forum (home theatre spot) that the mitsubusihi RGBHV inputs are no different then the Component inputs becaus the Mits just converts the RGBHV to component video. Which seems lame. I am wonding if the VGA input is also converted to component video?

Thanks Jeff, I guess that makes sense. Would the transcoder be any easier to use than just an VGA breakout cable (in terms of setting up the resolutions, etc.)? Any better quality or more flexible?

And how does just VGA in compare if I'm able to get the 480P/540P/1080i signals through it?

i've used sonic 1.5, powerdvd, windvd, ati dvd and they all hang on chapter 21 whereas my stb doesn't. you could be right about my samsung SD-612B not reading it. I'm not sure I want to spend $65 on another drive just to check it out. I'm glad it's just me and not anyone else so i know there's a work around for this.

bump TTT for CM and crew....

Originally posted by thomasamiller
Karnis,
Are you still recommending 1440x480 for viewing DVD's? What is your current favorite resolution for strictly watching dvd's? I have been using 1440x480 and enjoy it a lot. I can't see any difference in picture quality between 1440 and 720. What is the purpose of the 1, 1.5, and 2.0 dvd timings you list? Do different format DVD's look better with different timings? In other words would the matrix look good with one timing and lord of the rings look better with a different timing?

Note to Mitsubish owners! I read on another forum (home theatre spot) that the mitsubusihi RGBHV inputs are no different then the Component inputs becaus the Mits just converts the RGBHV to component video. Which seems lame. I am wonding if the VGA input is also converted to component video?
Currently using 1800x540p for DVD playback...vertical overscan corrected to 480p in TT AR control. I like to run the highest rez my display can theortically support while still maintaining even multiples of DVD rez for correct scaling...I use this for all DVDs.
Different resolutions are provided simply for users to play with & decide what they like best. What's a world without choices? ;)

Karnis,
Can you please explain something that's probably obvious to everyone else except me:

You use 1800x540p (I'm assuming 45Khz scan rate) for your DVD viewing. If you're screen is 16:9, how does this work. 1800x540 is like 30:9. What mode do you watch your DVD's in (anomorphic, letter box, etc..)
thanks for this useful info.

I watched Bourne Identity of a few chapters on my htpc this weekend and it froze. I think it's because of the DXVA being enabled. So i reverted back to my STB. The STB has just as good a PQ but the color is not as brilliant.
Thanks for your reply.

Do not associate resolution with aspect ratio. The 16x9 aspect ratio (screen shape) is maintained by increasing the front/back porches in Powerstrip. Desktop icons will appear tall and skinny....but who cares about desktop icons during fullscreen DVD playback?
I use the same rez for ALL format DVDs...anamorphic, 4x3, and 4x3 letterbox.

Do not assume that scan rate. Since I'm using a 1080i HDTV, scan rate is 33.75Khz and 59.94Hz refresh rate.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.
My 530HD rptv can accept 720p at 45Khz but it converts that to 1080i internally. So do you think it's better to just feed it 540p directly?

yes

Doesn't 1800x540p equate to 1800x1080i which is close to a 16:9 aspect ratio?

Ron

I've tried the 1800x540p and I didn't see much of a difference in PQ compared to 1080x480p.
540p cuts off some of the top and bottom of a movie which takes the entire screen while 480p fits nicely.
Karnis, So you use 1800x540p for watching DVDs which is good for anormorphic ones with black bars already, but what about the ones that fill the screen? Would you rather lose some of the info to use 540p instead of 480p. Please forgive my ignorance. Thanks, I'm learning a LOT!

I did a test this weekend (I was snowed in) and so I tested the vga input on the mitsubishi. THe picure quality of the component input blows away the vga input. I have no idea why is sucks so back but it is very noticeable.

Originally posted by jlui
I've tried the 1800x540p and I didn't see much of a difference in PQ compared to 1080x480p.
540p cuts off some of the top and bottom of a movie which takes the entire screen while 480p fits nicely.
Karnis, So you use 1800x540p for watching DVDs which is good for anormorphic ones with black bars already, but what about the ones that fill the screen? Would you rather lose some of the info to use 540p instead of 480p. Please forgive my ignorance. Thanks, I'm learning a LOT!

I use the aspect ratio control in Theatertek to make sure all DVDs are displayed correctly within the 1800x540p desktop rez.

Originally posted by thomasamiller
I did a test this weekend (I was snowed in) and so I tested the vga input on the mitsubishi. THe picure quality of the component input blows away the vga input. I have no idea why is sucks so back but it is very noticeable.

What model Mistubishi and what are you using for cables on the 2 inputs? On my WS-65909, the picture quality on both inputs is excellent.

Updated 540p based timings for broader compatibility. Updated overscan correction techniques to use "lock scan frequencies" for safe realtime adjustments.

I'm on a MITS WS-65905 attempting 720 x 480 at 540p.

I can get 33.750 khz, but the other value goes to 59.947.

If I change to 54.94, the 33.75 is changed slightly - and the 59.94 ends up at something like 59.941.

As the 54.94 seems to be double the film frames per second - does this affect the problem where the audio is perfect, but the video jumps ahead a 1/4 second every now and then?

Should I be shooting for getting both of these values exactly on the money - or is one or the other more important?

If I do need them exactly on the money - which settings in PowerStrip should I tweak to get the exact values?

The scan rate is the most important value, and next is the vertical line total....if your scan rate is 33.75KHz and your vertical line total is 563 then the result is a refresh rate of 59.947Hz. If your refresh rate drops too low the result is a picture that "bows" on the top & bottom. Basically, the tiimngs posted are "on the money";) ....easy way to tell: call up the Mits convergance screen and then switch between the HTPC and a HD STB...you want to see the convergance pattern change as little as possible (I have a Mits 55819).
Bottom line....leave it as is. Emulating an HD STB with the correct timings is much more important in this case than trying to exactly double DVD frame rate. With DXVA, the rules have changed; where before with HD Front-PJ's, those guys previously wanted to get ~72Hz as a multiple of 24fps to avoid 3:2 pulldown artifacts... now you actually want to avoid this due to timing issues! There is an interesting discussion about this at the TheaterTek forums, search user "CinemVidGuy" for more info!

Karnis-
If we are using your 1440x480 timings then is it true that the aspect ratio will NOT be a problem?

True. Just uncheck "keep aspect ratio" or the equivalent in your DVD player to fill the desktop with the DVD image.

this stuff is so confusing...

thank god for Karnis!

anyway...

i got a hitachi 51swx50... which does ONLY 540p and 1080i (480p and 480i upconvert to 540p or 1080i)
I am going to use Theatertek dvd, what do you recommend as resoultion and timings for dvd watching?
i also have a xcapture card that i want to feed my output of a DSS reciever into... can i use the same resolutions?


mitch

Use one of the 16x9 desktop settings for everyday applications.
All the rez marked "DVD" are there for the user to experiment with...try different ones and see which you like best. They are all the same HDTV-safe timings.
On my Mits I use 856x480p for desktop and 1800x540p for DVD. I have TheaterTek DVD player and use it's aspect ratio controller to correct for vertical overscan.

What's the powerstrip setting for 1280x960i on a Radeon AIW 9700 using Catalyst 3.1 drivers?

Don't have one at this time, however, you can create one based on the 14440x960i timings, just use the "lock total geometry" button, change 1440 to 1280 and click "add new resolution".

I'm using karnis' 856x484p on my pioneer elite 510hd for desktop and often for dvd as well and things have been working great - thx much karnis! Myhtppc just added an embedded wmp9 player which i can't get to adjust aspect ratios when in full screen.

however i did manage to get wmp9 stand alone to go into full widescreen with no side bars. to do it i have to 1) start stand alone wmp9 and start a dvd not in full screenat 856x484p. 2) switch reolution to anything else with powerstrip. 3. switch resolution back to standard 856x484p and then set wmp9 to fullscreen.
when it goes to fullscreen it scales up the picture and looks great. no side black bars.

the problem is that it doesn't work with the embedded player and i can't figure out how to do this programatically anyway ( wife and kids issue). any ideas what this might be? thx


is this the tv or powerstrip or ati 8500dv card or wmp9??

WMP9...I never could get it to reliably switch to full screen mode. Sometimes it would, sometimes not...with no rhyme or reason.

Has anyone had any problems regarding horizontal scan rates? My problem is that some programs (Soldier of Fortune 2, Medal of Honor, and even WinDVD) keep changing my horizontal scan rate from 33.75 to 30.X or whatever. Is there some setting or some way to prevent the program from affecting my scan rate? I've setup each program to use a custom resolution of 848x480 (different for WINDVD) but the scan rate change messes my screen up to where it's somewhat useless. I've managed to set up my monitor profile to only use 60hz but there isn't really a setting that controls horizontal scan rate. Any ideas on how to fix this? Thanks!

-Gitesh

Question answered in your PM. You need to have PS running at all times. Also, many games use different rez for different things (menus, movies, etc) so you need to set as many resolutions as possible (640x480, 800x600, etc) to run at the same scan rate. Thats the whole purpose of the custom rez guide, to have as many resolutions as possible run at the same HDTV-safe scan/refresh rates.

I have powerstrip working at the normal resolutions that the games run for intros, movies, and such. And powerstrip is running everytime with these settings saved as profiles. The problem is that the program isn't changing the resolution or even the refresh rate, it's just changing the horiz. scan rate from powerstrips setting of 33.75 (or whatever the case may be depending on my custom rez). It's only really affecting these 3 programs (although WinDVD didn't used to do it... it does now, but I use ZP now so I really don't care about that) Any other possibilties? Thanks.

-Gitesh