Originally posted by Scott Shanks
I received this e-mail response from Karen Stokes this morning. I would tend to trust her information more than a CSR's. It's just a little frustrating to get two VERY different answers to the same question, though.

Thank you for your website inquiry. We anticipate launching the All-In-One box the first week in December. Please don't worry, I added you to the contact list back in July!

She just e-mailed me too and said I was on the list a long time ago...I quess bugged her about it pays off huh. :p

Originally posted by Scott Shanks
80 Gb.
60 hours SD capacity
10 hours HD capacity

But can we upgrade that harddrive...put in, say, a 200GB+ drive?

Hey guys...looks like first week of December IS the date for the new HD box from Insight...here is the email I just received:

Dear Mr. Baird:

Thank you for your technical inquiry. The Motorola all-in-one boxes will be
available during the first week of December, 2003. If you would like to
upgrade to the new box, please contact our 24-hour customer service center
at (502)357-4400 or you may visit any of our front counter service centers
http://www.insight-com.com/about/louisville.html#louisville during that
time.

Sincerely,



Karen Stokes
Insight Communications


Woo hoo!
-Alex-

I got a slightly more generic/impersonal reponse. :(




Dear Mr. Turner:

Thank you for your technical inquiry. The Motorola All-In-One boxes
will be
available during the first week of December. At that time, all current
Insight HD subscribers will be notified. We appreciate your patience.

Sincerely,



Karen Stokes
Insight Communications

we are gonna drive Karen Stokes insane prolly.:D

Originally posted by silvermaxd
we are gonna drive Karen Stokes insane prolly.:D

We should all invite her to our homes for Christmas dinner. ;)

Originally posted by Scott Shanks
We should all invite her to our homes for Christmas dinner. ;)

heh...but...along those lines....

We should all get together one night for some brewskies! :D

Did someone say BEER???

who gonna invite Karen?:p

Mr Bob is looking into doing a calibration tour of the Louisville area. Robert Jones is a Professional ISF Calibrator. He can be reached at www.imageperfection.com. Looking for and early 2004 visit to Louisville.

Anybody in the Louisville area get VOOM yet? I'm wondering what kind of signal strength we'll get in this area. Signal strength has been an issue in some areas of the country.

I'm tempted to try VOOM because the money back guarentee has been extended to 3/31/04. From the VOOM formum on yahoogroups.com:

"Please be advised that Voom has expanded its 30 day money back
guarantee policy. Effective immediately, Customers who activate on
or before January 31, 2004 will be entitled to their money back
until March 31, 2004 (30 days after the free-view ends). Customers
who activate on or after February 1, 2004 will be entitled to their
money back for 30 days after the customer's first bill."

Also you don't pay for programming until 2/29/04.

Originally posted by STEVENSHS
Mr. Bob is looking into doing a calibration tour of the Louisville area. Robert Jones is a Professional ISF Calibrator. He can be reached at www.imageperfection.com. Looking for and early 2004 visit to Louisville.

Hmm...tempting...but what's the damage gonna be?

And, Rick, what is VOOM?

Oh wait...http://www.voom.com :)

$750, though?

Originally posted by PCS
Thanks for the update Rick. I haven't watched ABC since Sun so I don't know what the status of WHAS is on MNF. This will help me know if its a problem in my setup, Insight transmission or WHAS bit rate/signal. I hate to waste time emailing, calling, etc. if its not even the real problem. Good luck.

Jerry does the MYHD card have component inputs/outputs?

Well, I may end up keeping the card. I switched the cable input to the MyHD card from the ATI 8500DV in order to capture a show for someone and I noticed the PQ is LEAPS and BOUNDS better than the ATI card. The 8500DV's picture is snowy/grainy. It's tuner apparently sucks!

Originally posted by NightowlKY
Hmm...tempting...but what's the damage gonna be?

And, Rick, what is VOOM?

Oh wait...http://www.voom.com :)

$750, though?

Look at it this way ... you get an HD STB, an HD dish, an OTA antenna, installation and 2 yr at home service contract for $750 - not at all out of line with what those same items would cost you total for installation of a Dishnet or Directv HD system + OTA antenna installed.

You get free programming that includes ALL their channels for the next 3 months (the works is $99/month after that) AND you have a full money back guarentee - for 4 months. Doesn't sound too risky to me. If I don't like it by 4 months from now, I'm only out 1 months programming fee. If I cancel within 3 months - I'm out nothing.

The repots on the AVS and Yahoo VOOM forum have said the picture qaulity of VOOM is superb.

Yeah...*if* I had the money right now.

:(

[QUOTE]Originally posted by NightowlKY
[B]Hmm...tempting...but what's the damage gonna be?


email MR BOB it will cost nothing and he will be able to give a estimate. Give him details of your set...make model. Also travel charges will be split so depending of # interested will affect price.

I am sure alot of you are curious about calibration so I sent an email to Mr. Bob asking what it cost and what was included and here was his response.

Here's an emailout that will hopefully answer most of your questions, though not all of it may apply to you -

As you probably know, 100 hours is the ideal burn-in period for new big screens, so if your TV has accomplished that by now, it's ready. This is the period where your RPTV is most likely to drift in certain high-precision parameters, like convergence, because of being brand new, so it can also be called the "drift" period.

Ideally, calibrations are done after the drift period, but not necessarily. My new Panasonic 65" PRTV, though no different from any other brand new RPTV on such issues, was so far off out of the box that corrections were mandatory within the first several viewing hours. I literally couldn't stand to watch it that way without correcting it.

Any TV over 100 hours old is ready for a complete calibration; with some owners, like myself, ready and willing to do it immediately after purchase and then again after the first 100 hours - which I will do for no extra charge on critical precision operations like convergence on the primary scanrate/input/mode/format as long as a second travel charge is understood as being necessary and is covered by the client. Travel charges are always independent of each other.

If retrimming ops like convergence - or any other calibration operations - are desired done again on scanrate/input/mode/formats other than the TV's designated primary one, there may be reasonable extra charges, which we can discuss at the time.

Keep your contrast low for the first 100 hours, no more than 75% of what your eye tells you your TV can do, and probably more like 50% max would be safer.

All CRT based RPTVs should be recalibrated every 2-3 years, if you wish to really get your money's worth out of your several thousand dollar investment. Otherwise, most of the time you are not seeing anything close to what your TV is capable of at all times, which is of course to look like better than new at all times for the effective 10+ year life of the TV.


As far as screenburn goes, NO EXTENDED-TIME FIXED IMAGES AT HIGH CONTRAST. EVER.

No MSNBC, no FOX, no fixed-image/border video games, no ticker tape reports burning that band into your phosphors. You'll probably have your hands full, after awhile, just keeping the black/grey bands from being seen on your screen while bright and white images are there, due to the mixing of standardized aspect ratios in this crossover era between NTSC'S 4X3 and HDTV's 16X9. High Contrast is not good for regular viewing anyway, because it blurs your picture, and usually midpoint Contrast is the max recommended for high precision viewing. But for screenburn concerns, keeping Contrast as low as possible, always, is imperative. Let Contrast be high only on special occasions, like if you need to watch something during the day and your viewing area has poor light isolation, or you can't - or simply haven't yet - removed your glarescreen.

If you absolutely have to have fixed images up there for any length of time, turn your contrast low for the duration, and save the bright images for when you're watching something really spectacular. I even keep my contrast low when I watch Jay Leno's monologue in HD every night, turning it up later, for the better parts of the program. Brightness is not the bugaboo on burn-in, Contrast is. Brightness, a misnomer, controls the background darks; Contrast controls the foreground bright areas. On certain brands, like my Panasonic, it is necessary to turn BOTH down, to truly protect your phosphors. On Mits's, usually just Contrast attenuation would be enough.

If you choose to accellerate the burn-in, so as to take a shorter time to get to the end of the 100 hours, don't just run the TV night and day for the required time. Be sure and turn OFF the TV at night, and let it go totally cold between extended daytime ON periods. Mechanical expansion and contraction are substantial parts of the burn-in process. Just running it for 100 hours straight, night and day, won't accomplish this part of it. Only letting it go completely cold repeatedly, over and over, before warming it up again completely, will.

The basic cal package covers, on whatever you designate as your primary input/mode/format/aspect ratio, (for the basic cal package you must choose between NTSC or HD, to do both is a higher figure, see below), the following:

Regular optics cleaning. Old Mits's are factory sealed, and generally don't need cleaning under the regular lenses, so to clean down to the coolant covers does not apply to them or to any other factory sealed units, where the CRTs would have to be removed to get to the coolant covers, rather than just the exposed lenses. Deeper optics cleaning is extra, see below;

Mechanical and electrostatic focussing - with special emphasis on precision blue defocussing, and how it relates to greyscale's white balance vs. blue image blooming. This precision defocussing of the blue is generally not needed on the newer CRT based RPTVs.

Mechanical focussing, performed using the Cantilever Technique, which you can read up on under entries by Mr Bob - me - in the Universal Tweaks section of , and the Expert Tips section on the Keohi site: ;

Geometry - picture shaping and placement, esp. after taking in (on most brands) the everpresent overscan, which OOB - out of box - successfully makes the picture fit all markets in the country, but unfortunately also deprives you of sizeable areas of your picture. After taking in the height and width to proper sizing, whatever precision the geometry and convergence had OOB gets hosed beyond belief, and requires lengthy redesigning of the green master image once the sizing is again correct and has recaptured your lost picture areas. Reducing your sizing also throws in the perk of tightening up your horizontal - and sometimes vertical - resolution in the process. This is a HIGHLY critical and necessary operation, which I spend inordinate amounts of time on in a calibration.

Convergence - first to remedy the gross color shift errors that show up in response to the general hosing of the picture because of the reduced sizing, then high precision, super-tight general convergence of the primary designated input/mode/format/aspect ratio, which is usually FULL, on DVD. This, in addition to the higher resolution achieved by the resizing done in the geometry section above, gives you the overall combined bonus of a denser, tighter and much more coherent image than you had before - which allows you to sit closer to your image than before, and delivers a bigger picture to enjoy and surround yourself with. I sit 8' back from my 65" Panny, tilted down just a bit to be fully centered in the RPTV's "sweet spot", and I couldn't be happier. It's as if I am dead center at the movies with my own private 35mm projector in my own living room, and I often gleefully get caught up in studying the grain of the film used to shoot high precision HD shows like CSI, The Agency and Alias.

Basic calibration package does not include certain advanced-level rebiasing-type of registers that are there in some convergence systems - and act as landmines to the uninitiated - though that extended service is available upon request, as an extra. Its price also does not include the extensive work needed on the Peri registers of Panasonic RPTVs. Both the Peri registers and the rebiasing-type of convergence registers can be ultra fine-tuned, however, for a nominal extra charge.

The IP basic cal package price also no longer includes recentering the point system values for H and V on the newer, achingly slow Mit point systems that are present on some models, the ones with Net Command. If recentering of those points is desired, extra charges will be assessed. As long as the customer simply wants the existing numbers trimmed to accuracy, there will be no extra charges. But if the entire point system is off by 7" - which I did see on a brand new one recently and which caused bad problems in the coherency of the image - then extra charges will be needed, to get it right by recentering the point values and going from there. The last one I did took me 4 extra hours to do, and unfortunately I am no longer willing to just "kick that in," on the basic cal package.

If I discover a way to make that zeroing of the point system go fast instead, like on the older models, I will go back to normal on my charges, including this in the basic cal package. I have just learned something from Mit about how the Net Command may be the culprit, and next chance I get I will plug in the codes Mit gave me to eradicate this problem.

Complete greyscale alignment, using the ISF optical comparator.

Calibration to user centerpoint of the Brightness/Black Level, for the look and feel of 35mm film, where efficiently available in the unit's service menu. If not, detailed description is given as to where to set it in user settings, if recalibration of user center is not readily available;

Calibration of color and tint to user centerpoint, also if allowed for in the service menu, using the blue isolation of color bars test;

Checking of the accuracy of the color decoder, using the AVIA Color Decoder pattern;

A certain amount of general consultation on HT subjects, such as SVM, where to set Sharpness and Brightness and Contrast levels, etc.

On sets less than 70 inch size the basic cal package currently costs $485 plus travel, and covers your primary designated input/mode/format/aspect ratio - NTSC or HD; for both see next paragraph. Use of progressive 480p DVDPs is preferred and in many cases covers 480i sources like S or DSS or cable or OTA NTSC channels, as long as the values found in 480 progressive can be transferred directly to 480 interlaced. If 480i and p require separate sets of values and you desire the workup to be done from the ground up on both, separate fees have to be charged for each, tho in this case the structure part of it will have already been accomplished in working on the progressive section. If transferring from i to p scanning by upgrading your DVDP in the future, side to side and/or up and down positioning may be affected to a certain degree;

Due to the increased precision needed for For RPTVs 70 inches and larger, an extra $100 is charged on TVs of this larger size, per scanrate.

For calibration of BOTH NTSC and HD, the price is an additional $250 per additional scanrate for TVs smaller than 70". That means travel plus $735 for the normal dual scanrate HDready of 480p and 1080i, or travel plus $935 for both scanrates on TVs 70" and larger.

This covers your primary input mode format or aspect ratio in EACH of both the standard 480i/p NTSC and 1080i HD modes of your TV. If, like mine, your TV is 720p native-capable and you wish this scanrate calibrated also, an additional $250 will of course be charged. As of this writing, I know of no 70" or larger RPTVs that are - or ever have been - 720p native-capable.

HD mode usually freezes your aspect ratio response to one specific and exact 9x16 aspect ratio, tho on the 4x3 HDready Toshiba, HD is stretched vertically in HD mode. This can be corrected to fully accurate HD format reception of 9x16 via corrections in the service menu, as an extra. The black bars that will be created are inescapable and will eventually screenburn your 4x3 set, treating your CRT exactly the way they are treated in 9x16 HD units; as of this writing, there are still no 9x16 CRTs made, only 4x3 units used in 9x16 applications. The resulting screenburn is understood on the 4x3 CRT faces, but of course is not visible to the screen or the viewer, when the screen is a 9x16 screen.

Ground traveltime is $60/hr. RT, from my location to yours and back. Air travel is charged at the rate of $25/hr. for both airtime and airport waiting time, all of which is lost production time. On calibration tours with at least 5 cals waiting at the other end, the $25/hr. airtime charge is waived, making it irrelevant where in the country - or the world - I am being asked to go. Clients who live within 15-20 minutes of the airport will not be charged any extra groundtraveltime, but if farther than that, the $60/hr rate kicks in. Take me to dinner or lunch on the way home from the airport, and those charges have been known to have mysteriously vanished, as long as you don't live TOO far away...

Anything aside from that is extra, and will be talked about with the customer at the time, before work is performed on that extra.

Extras might include:

Removal of a permanent-style glare screen, known in non-videophile circles as protective sheild, and in videophile circles as glarescreen, for some rather important and inescapable videophile reasons.

Now, if you have dogs or medium age small kids, either living there or appearing now and then, you may wish to explore alternate means of eliminating the debilitating effects that room reflections have on the depth perception and 3 dimensionality potential of your bigscreen - such as backlighting only, in place of any frontlighting in the viewing room in question.

However, removal of your glarescreen is the best, truest and most phenomenal way to see your picture, and drink in its depth and 3 dimensionality - which you would miss with it on, anytime your room is not totally dark. It is the cheapest, "quick and dirty"-est method of improving your picture available, outside of knowing how to do your crosshairs properly, on static convergence. (Yes, even static convergence requires special instruction for many people in order to get it really right, by using the picture for the final doublecheck on the static settings, rather than the crosshairs).

This is not offered when the glare screen is glued in and unremovable without breakage, like in the older TW40X81. In the new 40" Toshs they are removable, at regular rates. Mits WS series glare screens come off in about 40 seconds, so no charge there, tho some of the newest of the new are not so simple, and do cost the regular fees;

Astigmatism realignment of one or more CRTs, if found to be needed for accurate electrostatic focus;

Scheimpfluge realignment of one of more lenses, if the focus on one or more of your colors is not evenly distributed across the screen, but is correct on 2/3 of the picture and out on the final 1/3 at either side. This also applies in the up/down direction but is much less noticeable there, and as such is much less important than the side to side - which can be very noticeable and thus irritating for the viewer;

Deeper optics cleaning, which requires removal of readily available lenses, which most units have. This is not generally needed on units up to a year old, but may be needed every year after that.

Normal extras prices do not cover cleaning of deeper optics that are not readily available, as in some double and triple mirrored RPTVs. Any optics that are hard to get to but still need cleaning, however, can be cleaned for an adequate amount of extra money;

Changing of coolant, if found to be contaminated on older units - this shows up in the picture, but requires access to the optical cavity for verification that the problem is definitely tainted coolant, and not strictly the optics being in need of professional cleaning;

Multiple aspect ratios converged which are local and not global, like on the Toshiba TW series and most Pioneers, as elaborated on below;

Advanced convergence on older Sonys and Pioneers, and any other units that use C Lin, S Lin, etc. Regular dynamic convergence is covered in the basic cal package, and static convergence - aligning the crosshairs - is of course performed at no charge at all, along with consultation on how to do static convergence best, upon request;

Geometry/convergence for aspect ratios different from

the designated primary aspect ratio in each scanrate, requiring separate geometry, convergence, and/or greyscale for that scan rate and/or aspect ratio, as in Full vs. Normal vs. Zoom vs. Theaterwide 1, 2 or 3, etc. HD is usually locked in at the one

9x16 aspect ratio that HD uses, so usually no extra aspect ratios can be done on HD anyway, just so you know;

Re-aligning the color decoder, as in eliminating the red push in the Mit x3 and x5 series units, and some of the most recent models. I will be glad to supervise and help set the variable attenuator on the x7 and x9 Mits's for no additional charge, as long as the customer has already purchased all the necessary parts and does the actual hookup work himself. Having a copy of Shakespeare in Love at the ready for the Before and After test for red push is always pretty thrilling, focussing on Kit's costume, with Shakespeare and Kit sitting at the bar in Chapter 8. I usually carry one with me. If you want to make sure I bring my copy in your case, be sure and remind me, otherwise own it or have it rented for the day;

I2C intervention on Mits's, tho I recommend that if you don't watch much S video or interlaced component on NTSC directly on your set - 480i thru a line doubler to 1080i means it is hitting your TV in RGB, most likely, and of course is no longer 480i - I recommend you do other means of red push attenuation if possible, and only on the more critical progressive and HD scanrates. The variable attenuator, if your set has component inputs on the more critical venues, works just as well as the I2C interface, tho it only affects where the attenuator is installed, and cannot help you on RGB inputs or S video or composite, or internal NTSC channels.

RGB inputs, luckily enough, in many cases don't have red push anyway, since RGB generally bypasses your set's color decoding. If your set will not allow User changing of Tint control in your HD because of RGB hook-up, you probably don't need I2C intervention on RGB, because that input is bypassing your TV's ability to change color decoding - and as such your set isn't altering the color decoding into a red push scenario anyway.

If Tint IS alterable in RGB hook-up, forget the last line of type above. If you do want the decoder realigned in RGB, I2C is available for you. However, if your HD is available to go in thru component instead, the attenuator route is also available.

The I2C interface is highly invasive, and requires erasing of all of the 8,000+ registers in each of your Mit's 2 eeproms. These values have been saved to a laptop and are changed and re-entered to your set, but in the process you are temporarily leaving your set without a brain.

Duvetyne/black felt installation, tho you don't need my technical expertise for an operation like this. My hourly rate on this op is $95/hr., with you providing all materials and tools. Just over an hour is usually a pretty good timeframe expectation. I do not do the lens hood, you'll have to do that;

Anything else not included in the basic calibration package.

General information:

I am not set up for credit cards and don't intend to be in the forseeable future.

Aside from traveltime, calibration time expectancy on one scanrate is usually 4 hours, or 6 hours for 2 scanrates, as in to include HD. Extras and especially problematical calibrations can take extra time over and above these figures, and can resultantly cost more, but this is always spelled out up front, with the client being totally at choice at all times.

The viewer is responsible for having the Setup and/or Service Manual at the ready, BEFORE I arrive on location for the calibration. Some brands don't require me to use the service manual, such as Toshiba and Mitsubishi, either because they are straightforward enough or because I have done enough calibrations on that particular brand to not need the manual anymore.

Others, like Pioneer, Panasonic and Sony, require the manual to be at the ready. I have and carry with me the manual for the current Pioneer Elites, the older Panasonics, the x7 series Mitsubishis and some others. I also have the manual for the 34" Sony HD1 16x9 Directview, which is several years old now, but which contains enough info to cover the new Wega 16x9 Directviews.

I have a few other manuals, but don't make any promises as to having the exact manual you might need for your set. Newer units all use specific get-in access techniques and service mode codes, many of which registers bear absolutely no resemblance to reality as far as trying to interpret their abbreviations extemporaneously - to try and make sense of them on location without the correct keys and legends which setup/service manuals carry within them.

Many of these manuals are available by downloading them from the net. One resource is:

The manufacturers themselves are the bottom line resource if downloading off the Net doesn't work. If I arrive on location for your calibration and the manual is not readily available, I will do my best with what we have - which is quite a bit, really, and includes anything mechanical, such as focussing and astigmatism realignment - all of which is still very empirical and not dependent on service codes.

If that is not sufficient to complete the calibration, however, the customer will be charged the travel for that visit plus a minimum partial-calibration charge of $150 to cover my time. This is not, of course, a separate charge. It is fully applicable and will be applied against the final fees once the proper information is present and the cal can be completed. As such, the only actual loss the customer will incur in that case will be an extra travel charge. Unfortunately, while that might be an inconsequential sum when local, it could wreak havoc if the cal is part of a calibration tour out of state.

If you have any questions about whether your TV will require a particular manual to be ready for me on location, email me or call me, as it is your travelcharge money that will have to cover any return visits that could have been avoided, had you had the setup/service manual at the ready during the initial visit.

For out of town/out of state clients, those over 20-30 miles away from my home base of San Lorenzo and the SF Bay Area:

All out of town/out of state calibrations are to be paid for in cash, money orders or traveler's checks;

I'd be happy to stay on a couch or in whoever's guest room during overnight travel, a motel is not strictly necessitated. A rental car is sometimes necessary, tho, and as a necessity to the travel component of the job, is paid for by the customer;

I do also require either a phone line for my laptop or use of your computer at night, to keep in contact with my emails. Also, use of your phone would be necessary occasionally, to make calling card calls back to my homebase and my "other" life. Those LD phone expenses are on me, of course.

Hope this helps.

PS - Send me your phone number and we can continue this live.

Any locale is eligible for my services. I realize that very few people can just fly me to them – tho one guy did that, for one Mit 55” RPTV, and that was to New Jersey from California. Others have had me in for calibration tours, and I have been flown in to various locations all over the continent, including Canada.

I have several guys so far, interested in this one. Nobody has yet stepped up to be the organizer, tho. Would you like that honor?

Send me your contact info and I will forward all your infos to each other, so you can organize with each other on your end.

All projection TVs are eligible, no matter what age or type, almost without exception. Older units actually show the incredible differences/improvements due to calibration even more than brand new units. So if you know anybody with any type of bigscreen, (s)he’s eligible to be part of the tour.

I will forward you info by separate email. Please reply only to this one, as the other one is very large.

Where did you hear about me, BTW?

Looking forward to working with you.

Mr Bob

I am new here but man this seems pretty pricey. I am not sure if it is worth it or not I have always heard though to get the best picture, calibration is required but you could be looking at 800 bucks or more, heck my set only cost me 2500. What do you guys think ?

I am hoping sometime next week to finally get my hands on the new HD Box with the DVR as they are still testing them in house. I hope that we can persuade them to leave the fire wire port turned on so that we have the ability to easily expand the hard drive. The Beta testers really need to push for this feature since the box easily has the capability.

Way too pricey for me. Thanks for getting the info, though. I'm sure he could improve my set, but at 33% of the purchase price, it's just not worth it to me. I can do the service menu convergence myself and I bought an overlay grid. I can't justify that kind of $$$.

By the way, I finally got the ESPN-HD basketball in the mail the other day. I, honestly, had forgotten all about it. Anyone else get theirs?

Yep, got my basketball.

Also, I noticed a new channel on the HD box today. 96 I think. Anyone know what this is cause it's a blank screen for me! Sorry if it's been talked about before, but I glanced through the past posts and didn't see anything.

Thanks,

K13

I'm with you on Mr Bob being too pricey. I've done my own and the only calibration I can't do is greyscale without the right equipment but I'm pretty happy with my 55" Mits PQ for the last 3 years.

Also, yes I got the ESPN-HD Bball about a month ago.

I too noticed 96 on my Insight box last PM. Blank screen. What is this a new channel on the way? let's hope we may finally see INHD.

Dave Levy calibrated my set for $500 and some change. He did a manual focus,grayscale and set the contrast etc. for all inputs. I was kinda shocked at his price. I think the price was a little high but since he was outta town you have to consider his time,travel expenses. Somebody local should be cheaper for sure.

PCS,
I was too scared to adjust the focus on my own. Was it hard to do? I'm afraid I'll screw it up more than I'll help it. I almost got the 55" Mits you bought, but we were concerned about it fitting down the steps to the basement. We ended up with a 50" Tosh 4x3 with 16x9 mode (it barely squeezed in). If we ever get rid of that set, I don't know how I'm going to get rid of it. :)

Steve,
Were you pleased with the work Dave did to your set? Was the picture improved dramatically and in what way?

Scott, my set was only about 6 months when he did it back in april..he did'nt have to clean anything...he spent most of his time getting the grayscale set to 6500k. I did notice a difference in the colors...they seemed alot better especially the reds....no red push at all. he was very professional and explained everything he was doing. I'm satisfied overall...it's feels good just knowing that your TV is setup the way it's supposed to be. Of course with cable it does'nt matter but with HDTV/DVD I wanted it to be the best it could be. I spent alot for this set and I want it to be performing to its best ability and calibrating was a no brainer for me.

FYI...

spoke to Insight Customer Service today about the availability of the new single-box, PVR, HD replacement box slated for rollout on December 1st. Looks like a small delay with availability either mid or end of December. They said a mailer would go out to all existing customers HD "two-box" customers detailing this.

-Alex-

Originally posted by silvermaxd
Dave Levy calibrated my set for $500 and some change. He did a manual focus,grayscale and set the contrast etc. for all inputs. I was kinda shocked at his price. I think the price was a little high but since he was outta town you have to consider his time,travel expenses. Somebody local should be cheaper for sure.

Silvermaxd,
Where is Dave located. $500 doesn't sound as bad as some do. There was a "Ken" that came from Indy, but other than that I never found anyone local doing an ISF cal.

Anyone know if the PBS news, in the link, will apply to this area. I use dish and get both 17 & 38 PBS OTA. Haven't watched in a while but if they added more hd I would.
link:http://www.satelliteguys.us/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3540

Thanks,
Larry

Originally posted by lapplegate
There was a "Ken" that came from Indy, but other than that I never found anyone local doing an ISF cal.

"Ken ... from Indy" is Ken Whitcomb's Calibrations, Inc. He lives in Indianapolis. Ovation recommended him to me - said he does the tough calibration jobs for them.

He did my Pioneer Elite 520-HD several months ago. He did a great job - it made quite a noticable difference in my set. He had all the latest equipment including a Sencore Color Analyzer, etc and spent a lot of time with me educating me about what he was doing and what to look for. The bill was about $400 - well worth it to me.

I highly recommend him - phone # 317-254-9886

Originally posted by Rick214
"Ken ... from Indy" is Ken Whitcomb's Calibrations, Inc. He lives in Indianapolis. Ovation recommended him to me - said he does the tough calibration jobs for them.

He did my Pioneer Elite 520-HD several months ago. He did a great job - it made quite a noticable difference in my set. He had all the latest equipment including a Sencore Color Analyzer, etc and spent a lot of time with me educating me about what he was doing and what to look for. The bill was about $400 - well worth it to me.

I highly recommend him - phone # 317-254-9886

Rick,
Thanks alot. I had read about him and heard he was good. Thanks for confirming it. My Mits 65809 is about 2 years old now. I've done all the standard tweaks (focus, overscan, convergence, avia) but alot of people say an ISF cal is well worth the investment.

Larry

Any update on the new channel 96 that showed up last week?

I'm pretty sure it's just an analog channel test, they did this before with the Gameshow network, i think it was the same channel, but they moved it to a digital package, so now the channel is blank.

I also was told that the HDTV PVR box was coming this month. I was told it would be like 12$ a month, but that would include the Digital Gateway and HDBox rental fee, so it's only like 3 bucks more.

Originally posted by MichaelZ
I just noticed today the HDNet will have Louisville vs. Iowa in HD @ 1:30pm :) Thought I'd mention it.

The game is being rerun on Wednesday 12/3 at 3:00 pm, if anyone can bear to watch. :(
It is followed by the IU vs. Xavier game.

The Louisville Palace in HD
Sunday night at 9 PM, HDNet is airing an Alison Krauss concert. I believe it was recorded at The Palace Theater. The promos looked beautiful.

Wow, nice find!! I'll be sure to tune in!

From Hd.net's page:
"Alison Krauss & Union Station Premiere
This incredible performance by Alison Krauss and Union Station at the Louisville Palace in Louisville, Kentucky blends bluegrass, jazz and folk. In 1995 Alison Krauss won the grammy award for female country vocalist of the year. This awesome performance finds bluegrass's most celebrated crossover band at the top of it's game. "

Scott Thanks for the heads up on the Palace concert. Sounds great. I may have to miss my Alias fix for one week.

Oh sweet!!

I've been meaning to get the DVD. I wish I had a way to record this (for posterity ;) )

The CD is just tremendous!!

I watched the concert after Alias and I was very impressed. It's not really music I listen to, but I still found it enjoyable. The shots of the palace were very very nice, and the PQ overall was definately up to HDnet's standards.

I watched the 2nd hour of the Palace concert after Alias too. WOW! If you missed this you will want to catch an encore performance which they always offer. Wonderful PQ. The picture virtually sparkled. What would you call this music? Countrygrass? Pop-Bluegrass? Very relaxing whatever you choose to call it!

They're considered Bluegrass, for the most part. Esp. since Dan Timynski (sp?) has won several awards at the BMAs the last couple of years :)

But, did anyone else notice that the volume would lower when the music (and esp. on applause) would get louder? It was a noticeable dropoff in volume.

And, for the record, I'm in LOVE with Alison! :D

Finally WLKY says that they have heard the audio problem and may know what is causing it. This is the email I received:

We caught the problem and may have identified a piece of equipment causing
the problem.
This is the first time I have heard the problem.

Jim


I sure hope they have found it and at least they admit there has been a problem.

What was up with WHAS last night? Nothing in HD.

Any news on the Insight single box solution?

Originally posted by Briands
Any news on the Insight single box solution?

Nada.

For what it is worth....

Talked today to an Insight CSR about the single box progress (when will it be available, how much, etc...) and the only info she had was that the "firm" date for release is the week between Christmas an New years.

Maybe a late Xmas present...we shall see!

-Alex-

Anyone know the model numbers for the old insight boxes?
I need to look up the back panel connections for both of them
Thanks
woo

Originally posted by woowoo
Anyone know the model numbers for the old insight boxes?
I need to look up the back panel connections for both of them
The digital box is a DCT-5100.
The analog box is a DCT-2000.

Originally posted by STEVENSHS
Finally WLKY says that they have heard the audio problem and may know what is causing it. This is the email I received:

We caught the problem and may have identified a piece of equipment causing
the problem.
This is the first time I have heard the problem.

Jim


I sure hope they have found it and at least they admit there has been a problem.

I hope they fix it quickly. Audio on CSI tonight is HORRIBLE!

Originally posted by NightowlKY
I hope they fix it quickly. Audio on CSI tonight is HORRIBLE!

Sure was I emailed Jim Mercer again. Please all send him an email.

JMERCER@hearst.com


It has taken me weeks to get him to admit there is a problem and perhaps if we all let him know there is a problem we might get it fixed.


Steve

FWIW,

We also had another instance of the audio echo/stutter on WKYT-HD last night, during Survivor and CSI. About 1/2 way through CSI, the pic switched to SD for a couple of minutes ... switched back to HD and no more audio issues for the rest of the evening. This would seem to suggest that there may be something in the network feed that's "tickling" these local problems.

HDC

Originally posted by HDTVChallenged
FWIW,

We also had another instance of the audio echo/stutter on WKYT-HD last night, during Survivor and CSI. About 1/2 way through CSI, the pic switched to SD for a couple of minutes ... switched back to HD and no more audio issues for the rest of the evening. This would seem to suggest that there may be something in the network feed that's "tickling" these local problems.

HDC

HDC

Please join the squeaky wheel club and email Jim Mercer.
JMERCER@hearst.com

Steve

Originally posted by STEVENSHS
Please join the squeaky wheel club and email Jim Mercer.

Steve,

I would but I don't get WLKY reliably (yet ... working on correcting that :) ) I was just saying that there were problems from Lexington as well. There does seem to be a pattern in the problems occuring at both stations ... I just don't know if it the same problem or what the KYT guys did to fix it last night.

HDC

Originally posted by STEVENSHS
HDC

Please join the squeaky wheel club and email Jim Mercer.
JMERCER@hearst.com

Steve

Email sent!

Originally posted by HDTVChallenged
Steve,

I would but I don't get WLKY reliably (yet ... working on correcting that :) ) I was just saying that there were problems from Lexington as well. There does seem to be a pattern in the problems occuring at both stations ... I just don't know if it the same problem or what the KYT guys did to fix it last night.

HDC

Well I have also sent a letter to the CBS VP of Engineering. No reply yet. One of the main problems is that the locals act as this is a burden on them instead of an opportunity.

Steve

Hi,

Anyone else having trouble with WHAS (ABC)? The last two nights the signal has been terrible and I couldn't get a picture. The strange part is since I've been recieving OTA, I've gotten NBC and CBS at around 90% and ABC around 75%.

I came home for lunch today and the signal wasn't bad, a little lower than normal but a steady picture. Once again tonite, nothing. I'd be curious if anyone else is having trouble.

Thanks,
Bryan

Peabobb,

I've seen big problems with pixellation/dropouts, myself, on WHAS over Insight's feed. Maybe WHAS' tower doesn't like cold weather? ;)

Originally posted by peabobb
Hi,

Anyone else having trouble with WHAS (ABC)? The last two nights the signal has been terrible and I couldn't get a picture. The strange part is since I've been recieving OTA, I've gotten NBC and CBS at around 90% and ABC around 75%.

I came home for lunch today and the signal wasn't bad, a little lower than normal but a steady picture. Once again tonite, nothing. I'd be curious if anyone else is having trouble.

Thanks,
Bryan

I have no problems with WHAS. OTA with Sony HD 300. Good picture no problem.

Steve

Hi all,

I could use some advice on OTA. Here is my current setup:

First (of two) floor apartment in St. Matthews. Silver Sensor with a 25 db amp. Zenith HDV420 receiver. Roughly 30 miles from the towers.

I can get NBC & CBS with very good signals, only an occasional hiccup. ABC varies day to day. Some days ABC is no problem to get and other days its a challenge to position the antenna to get a steady signal. I'd like to get steady reception from ABC and if possible UPN as well. UPN signal strength is currently around 25% and does not produce a picture.

I'm curious what recommendations anyone might have? Other indoor antennas etc. I currently have a directv dish on my patio so I assume I would be able to do a small outdoor antenna (assuming such a thing exists). Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

Thanks!
Bryan

peabobb--

I can only speak from experience. I've only had consistent results using UHF antennas like this:

http://www.channelmaster.com/images/4248.jpg

But with any antenna, it might be difficult to acheive consistent results being on the first floor.

You might consider Insight HD.

Actually, I wanted to stay away from insight (cable in general). I had them for a while but I thought the quality wasn't all that great for what I was paying each month. Out of curiousity, how is quality of their HD programming?

Content: ESPN HD, Discovery HD, HDNet, HDNet Movies, Bravo HD, KET, WLKY, WAVE, and WHAS (also Showtime and HBO if you subscribe)

I think the video quality is on par with OTA. I have both OTA and Insight HD, and can't tell the difference.

Another thing Insight has going for it is the soon to be released HD DVR set top box.

Also, has anyone heard any rumors about when Insight might add InHD/InHD2?

WHAS over Insight is AWFUL!!!

Almost constant pixelation and dropouts. Too bad as The Santa Clause is on and it's a pretty good transfer.

Anyone else seeing this horrific PQ?

Originally posted by NightowlKY
WHAS over Insight is AWFUL!!!

Almost constant pixelation and dropouts. Too bad as The Santa Clause is on and it's a pretty good transfer.

Anyone else seeing this horrific PQ?


Crystal clear over the air for WHAS. No video or audio at all on WAVE.

Well, if it wasn't so cold, I'd run a cable out the sliding door of the family room and hang my antenna on the back gate.

This has been going on for at least a week, too, with WHAS on Insight. Wish the entry cost of getting HD tuners from DirecTV or DISH wasn't so high.

I watched the football game on WHAS OTA this afternoon. The first half was great but the second had some audo drop outs. I've noticed audo problems on and off the past week or so with that channel.

Actually, that was WLKY (CBS) that had the audio problems today. Sorry, I haven't been in town that long ;-)

I recently (Mon 22) had to contact Insight CC and they told me they were having "problems" with the new boxes and so we probably won't see them until the new year. Oh well at least they had the brains to sort out any problems before they ship them out. Of course that doesn't mean there won't be more problems later.

Will the U of L vs U of K game be in HD?

Originally posted by bjrosez1
Will the U of L vs U of K game be in HD?
I doubt it...

The Bills @ Patriots game starting at 1:30pm preceeding the UK/UL game will be in HD... and then on Sunday it will be Denver @ Green Bay in HD...

I think that about taps out all of CBS's HD "live" resources for this weekend... They've never done more than two "live" events in a weekend before.

Does Insight broadcast Fox Widescreen? I have seen many posts about it, but I have never noticed fox looking any better than any of the other non-HD channels. Thanks,

K13

Originally posted by Kleve13
Does Insight broadcast Fox Widescreen? I have seen many posts about it, but I have never noticed fox looking any better than any of the other non-HD channels. Thanks,

K13

No because WDRB is doing nothing. Just regular signal on digital channel. They are the pits.

Insight finally has the new DVR/HD set-top converters available, and they are booking installation appointments. I'm scheduled to get mine on Jan 6th.

The CS rep, though, did have problems booking the order. Their order-entry system kept trying to tell her that I wouldn't be eligible for the "triple play" discount with the new set-top box. No doubt my billing will be messed up once everythings said and done (it should just be an extra $5.95/mo). She said mine was only her 2nd order for the new box.

Note Insight now has their version of the user-guide for the new Moto DCT-6208 DVR/HD boxes on their revamped website at insight-com.com/help/InsightDigitalCableDVR-HDTV.pdf.

Note it's $5.00 a month extra for the DVR/HD box, not $5.95 as I posted above. ($12.95 vs $7.95 for "regular" Digital cable)

yep yep, i called insight today about my bill and asked about cinimax/startz and the new hd box. he didn't have any info about the channels, but he said the box launched yesturday. i called my apartment's insight guy and am scheduled to get it on friday. =D

Well, WLKY-HD is on the air... but the rose parade is SD. Please, someone flip the switch!!!

Call there newsroom and complain 891-4932

From what I've read so far today, Tribune Broadcasting stations (mostly WB stations) and Discovery HD are the only stations carrying the Rose Bowl Parade in HD. In Indy, local WB station (Tribune), WTTV-DT, is broadcasting the parade in HD. The local ABC, CBS and NBC stations are not presenting it in HD.

Steve

Watching it on Discovery and it is just great.

Originally posted by VaxHeadroom
Insight finally has the new DVR/HD set-top converters available, and they are booking installation appointments. I'm scheduled to get mine on Jan 6th.

Thanks for the heads up! Called and set up my appointment last night for Tuesday 1/6 midday. :) They attempted to charge me a $19.95 change of service fee, but the CSR said she could waive that fee after complaining for only a second or so. Silly.

Let us know how it goes, John after you get yours installed (I'm assuming that is today). Thanks.

Originally posted by VaxHeadroom
Insight finally has the new DVR/HD set-top converters available, and they are booking installation appointments. I'm scheduled to get mine on Jan 6th.
Mine was installed today! Works great! It's really nice to have 1 box instead of 2. I finally have a functional on-screen program guide.

Thanks Insight! Now ... how about INHD and INHD2?

I'm trying to advise a family member in Louisville regarding the purchase of a HDTV. Does anyone have recommendation for knowledgable retailers? One worry is installation and configuration. I'd like to set up someone who can calibrate the monitor and configure it correctly with a hdtv cable box.

Also, what connections does the cable box from Insight have? Would he be best served by a monitor with a DVI input?

Thanks,
Andrew

Michael,
I haven't had mine installed yet, but I heard the 6208 firewire port is configured to work when connected to a monitor, but not to a hard drive.

I've got an both an external firewire hard-drive, as well as firewire ports on the PC, and will be testing both with the DCT6208, assuming I get the STB on Tuesday as scheduled. I do not have a firewire display, so I can't test that, though.

Assuming the 6208 uses the firewire for video output (as opposed to supplemental PVR hard-drive space), I'm curious how "copy protection" is handled - can one capture the firewire data video stream onto a PC just like one does from a DV camcorder?


Joe Walko
Louisville, KY

Good News finally the 1 STB solution with DVR & firewire! I'll be signing up asap!

I'm not sure we know for sure that firewire and/or DVI are enabled. It's safe to say Component outputs are active, as they are on the current 5100 STB the Insight has been using for HD.

FCC rules from last fall mandate that the CableCo's have to provide firewire-enabled STBs to customers who request it by April 1, 2004. It's very possible the firewire won't get enabled until then, as manufacturers in some cases are still working out software issues (DishTVs 921 box, for examble).

The same FCC mandate says that DVI output isn't required until mid-2005.

My guess is that Insight will have both DVI and firewire (video) enabled either now or by April 1.

My bettin' money says it does, or will by April 1 (when the FCC requires the cable STBs to support firewire). Even if it's not turned on initially, it'll just be a matter of a firmware download from the head-end to enable it. The 6208 supports (or will support by 4/1)firewire with copy protection (DTPC or 5c), as do all the D-VHS recorders. Most channels should be flagged to allow either unlimited copying, or either "copy once" for some premium channels. Only the PPV & special events are supposed to get flagged as "copy never", thus disallowing recording of them on a D-VHS deck.

At least a couple of forum members should have these new STBs by now - any feedback yet on firewire interoperatibility?

Location: Bedford, IN.

I noticed towards the end of the Colts vs Broncos playoff game a degradation in my signal (pixelation and breakup) on WLKY DT. A quick check of signal meter on the Rcvr showed a weak and varying signal compared to the normal 100%. Same for WAVE DT. Both are normally rock solid pics and 100%. Ant direction was positioned as normal.

Then a check of analog stations showed a weak pic compared to normal on the UHF channels (32, 41, 58).

Sooooooo I'm just curious if this was a weather related thing noted by others in the area or if all this rain might've finally gotten in my cable or ant amp and caused a problem?

Part #2:
Has anyone heard if WHAS DT has any plans to increase their current broadcast power? NBC DTand CBS DT are fine (normally... today excepted) but no ABC DT for me unless I'm very lucky and pick up WRTV DT out of Indy.

I won't even ask the same question about Fox41.... :(

-AKH

Don't know if anyone else noticed but we lost the HD picture at the start of the fourth quarter. I finally decided to call WHAS and got an "Oh, sorry!" and a quick flip of the switch after talking to master control. Good to see that works. :rolleyes:

my insight guy had to delay my installation of the combo box, which was unfortunate, but expected. if I hadn't called him to remind him of it in the first place, he wouldn't have remembered anyway. =/

I'm supposed to be on a "list" to get the 6208 but I don't know what that means...Rick did they contact you or did you call them?

Will WLKY be in DD5.1 in the near future (say before the Superbowl)?

Does anyone know what the holdup is?

I assume the lack of DD5.1 on WLKY is not on my end is it?

-AKH

Originally posted by silvermaxd
I'm supposed to be on a "list" to get the 6208 but I don't know what that means...Rick did they contact you or did you call them?

I had sent an email to Karen Stokes a while back and she replied that people would be contacted. Well, I didn't want to keep waiting so I just called and the earliest available appt was Jan. 20.

akh, considering the weather we've had, I wouldn't be at all surprised you were experiencing OTA reception problems. Esp. considering the rain was heavier there in southern IN.

As for WLKY, I thought they were in DD? I can't say with 100% certainty but I watch a fair amount of CBS HD (CSI, Judging Amy, etc. and I thought it was Dolby Digital)

Well I got my new Insight box coming Wed (7 Jan) can't wait!!!

I couldn't get out of the $20 "installation" fee tho. D'oh!!

hmm...the person didn't mention any type of installation fee to me. Just the $12.95 cost of the new box. If they charge me...I'll be sure and b!tch loudly!

Wow...this thread is a few months away from being 2yrs old. :)

Anyway, if you all would kindly help out, I'd like to help everyone in the area. If you all could PM me any phone #s or email addresses for engineers, news desks, GMs, etc. that we can call or write when there are problems with reception or HD quality, I'll update the original post.

This includes direct-dial #s at Insight to bypass the menu-hell they have ;)

Jerry,

This won't help with Insight, but here are the #s from a prior post on this thread:

WHAS 582-7840
WHAS NEWS (for nights and weekends)582-7223

WAVE 585-2201
WAVE NEWS (for nights and weekends)561-4150

WLKY 893-3671
WLKY NEWS (for nights and weekends)891-4932
Chief Engineer Jim Mercer [email]jmercer@hearst.com
:)

Originally posted by silvermaxd
I'm supposed to be on a "list" to get the 6208 but I don't know what that means...Rick did they contact you or did you call them?
I was on the "list" as well but I was not contacted. I called and made an apppointment as soon as I saw VaxHeadroom post here that Insight was taking orders.
Originally posted by NightowlKY
I had sent an email to Karen Stokes a while back and she replied that people would be contacted. Well, I didn't want to keep waiting so I just called and the earliest available appt was Jan. 20.
I called them on Wednesday and they came 3 days later on Saturday. I guess they've got a lot of calls since then.

I've recorded and watched several HD shows in the past 3 days. I am addicted to this thing! I think it's going to dramatically change the way I watch TV and certainly will allow me to be more discriminating! I wish the HD in it was larger than 80MB. I hope the firewire connection works for an additional HD.

I watched "2 1/2 Men" tonight on Insight 763. The sound broke up constantly! I switched to 32-1 via by my antenna - same thing, constant sound breakups.

The commercials also broke up. I tried to watch CSI: Miami but I couldn't take the sound any more.

I emailed Jim Mercer at WLKY. Anybody else?

These sound breakups are awful.

Oh, yeah, and WLKY is only Pro Logic...no Dolby Digital.

I just turned the 'Effects Off' button on on my yamaha receiver and we'll see if this is any better. (Nope...still audio problems.)

Last night's CSI: Miami was great...no audio problems that I heard. Tonight is ugh!


Oh...and thanks, PCS. I'll update the 1st post.

Originally posted by NightowlKY

As for WLKY, I thought they were in DD? I can't say with 100% certainty but I watch a fair amount of CBS HD (CSI, Judging Amy, etc. and I thought it was Dolby Digital)

My home theater unit only shows digital stereo for WLKY DT. IIRC I've never seen DD5.1 detected on WLKY DT even tho I know there should be DD5.1 content being broadcast (CBS broadcasts DD5.1. I don't know if WLKY has DD5.1 equip or not).
I just checked on another OTA HD channel that I recieve (WTIU) and the HT display immediately switched to DD5.1 for that station. Change back to WLKY DT and it goes back to only DD2.0 (digital stereo only, no surround, no center channel, etc).

...Plus the audio on WLKY DT is a bit flaky this evening anyway. :(

IIRC CBS was ramping up DD5.1 just around the time WLKY DT went live last winter.

-AKH

I just got the HD service from Comcast here in Elizabethtown and I am only getting two network stations CBS and ABC. Does anybody have any info from Comcast when they will be picking up new HD stations?
Thanks

77haven,
Louisville is serviced by Insight, not Comcast. You are certainly welcome to post in this thread, but you might get more responses by starting a Central Kentucky Comcast thread. Good luck.

Insight installed my 6208 this morning. Some observations:

- Model Motorola DCT6208. Software V21.03-1226-44. Firmware 07.07

- Noisy! There's a tiny but loud and "whiny" fan in front of the hard drive. It's on all the time, even when the STB is powered off. This alone is almost enough incentive to get the box open and replace the fan with a quieter version.

- Analog-channel quality is not good. "Grainy" is the best way I can describe it. I'm sure it would look absolutely horrific on a large display. The installer said the analog quality varied greatly on the handfull of 6208 installs he had performed, so perhaps its sensitive to signal quality or noise. On one install the customer had him put the old 2000/5100 equipment back in. The poor analog quality is not a huge deal to me, especially with (most of) the local channels available in digital format. Plus one can always tune the analog channels directly on the display if this a problem.

- The diagnostics interfaces menu (power-off, menu, menu, select, interfaces) seems to indicate that both firewire and DVI are enabled. I don't have a firewire display, but when I connected a firewire camcorder, the diagnostics screen showed the firewire port go active, but also knew it wasn't a "5C" compliant device. I don't have a DVI TV, but I did try connecting a DVI LCD computer monitor. Nothing displayed, but the computer LCD displays don't have the copy-protection stuff, and I think the STB is looking for this before enabling the display.

- Channel changing is slow (2 seconds between channels). But surfing through the program listings is very, very fast.

- The new TV-Guide channel info is OK (faster, no more truncated titles), but I'm dismayed to see adverstisements sucking up valuable screen real-estate to the left of the channel info.

- PVR functions seems good. Not as good as Tivo (based on what I've heard), but it'll certainly meet my family's time-shifting needs far better than the d*mn VCRs, which I've grown to detest.

- Real-time/any-time "rewind" function is very, very cool. The hard drive is always buffering what you've just watched.

- HD channels still in >750 channel range, just like on the 5100.

- I briefly experimented with attaching an external firewire hard-drive. I saw the fireport go active, but it still only showed the internal IDE hard drive as being attached (in the diagnostics page).

- No new remote.

- OnDemand functions are much faster with the new STB, obviously benefiting from the faster processor.

- The installed said they will no longer install 5100s; I guess the plan is to get all the 5100s swapped out with the new box. Note the 6208 and the 5100 look identical from the outside. I'm guessing Motorola is able to recyle old 5100s into new 6208s fairly easily.

---------------------

Joe Walko

Hopefully I will be getting my 6208 tomorrow and will be able to answer this myself but I'll ask anyway. Is it possible to bypass a HD channel thru the 6208. Thursday nights we like to watch Without A Trace in HD on CBS but E.R is on NBC in HD (usually) at the same time. So will I be able to watch one in HD and record the other in HD.

got my HD PVR box from insight last night, it looks exactly the same as the old HD box, but has a new inteface and pvr capabilites, and also DVI output. I recorded Jay Leno and the Mantis show off discovery and my capity was already at 20% full, so.. it takes quite a bit of space, and you only have like a 3 hour preview guide, so you can only scedule things 3 hours in advance, which is kind of a let down. And to record a show, you have to be tuned into it, so you can't be watching one show while recording the other. Also, the GUI is very clunky.. but i guess that's not the most important aspect, but they changed the directional arrows to work as FF, RW, Pause, Play, so you can't nagivate the channels like you could before . It was nice that all the pause/rewind/fast foward features worked on hd stuff though, and most of all, finally.. one box!

This is my first pvr, so i'm still playing with it. I set it to record The Ring and some show off HDNet before i left. So, it's pretty nice you can do that with HD stuff now. I wonder if i can throw a larger hard drive in there.

Originally posted by 77haven
I just got the HD service from Comcast here in Elizabethtown and I am only getting two network stations CBS and ABC. Does anybody have any info from Comcast when they will be picking up new HD stations?
Thanks

The only local stations you don't have at this point are NBC and KET (which is rarely HD anyway). FOX and UPN are broadcasting digitally, but they're at rediculously low lvls and aren't passing through wide-screen or HD feeds. I don't think the WB is even up and running yet. So you're really only missing out on NBC at this point. You might have better luck contacting your station's csrs. Glad to hear E-town has HD now.

You can schedule PVR events farther into the future by not using the preview guide, and instead explicitly specifying the time & duration. Kind of kludgy, but still better than a VCR. You can also set it to record every day or every week at the same time slot & duration. First thing I did was set up recording Teen Titans every Saturday at 10PM for my kids.

--
I was still able to navigate the channels & listings overlay using the arrows, but then at somepoint I got into a different mode where the arrows did the FF, RW, PLay, etc. Not sure how I got into that mode, or how to get back out.

---

Morotola's future 6408 STB will have dual tuners, thus enabling one to Record and Watch at the same time (or do PIP stuff). Not sure when it's going to be released, or if Insight has any plans to offer it for more $s. Or, once can always get a 2nd 6208 - the 2nd might be less than the 1st; I believe the $13 cost of the first STB ($8 for the old DCT2000) includes a $5 fee for the digital service itself.

I wonder what happens if one is watching when it comes time for a pre-scheduled recording to take place. Which takes precedence?

Joe Walko

if you have a pre-scheduled recording, it'll promt you like 5 minutes before it begins if you want it to tune to that channel when it starts, or cancel the recording. If you try to change channel while it's recording, it'll prompt you if you want to cancel the recording currently going on. It will also notify you if you have scheduling conflicts.

It's still quite nice though. When I went home for lunch it was still recording The Ring and i also had it record Spiderman.

Originally posted by VaxHeadroom
First thing I did was set up recording Teen Titans every Saturday at 10PM for my kids.

--
I was still able to navigate the channels & listings overlay using the arrows, but then at somepoint I got into a different mode where the arrows did the FF, RW, PLay, etc. Not sure how I got into that mode, or how to get back out.

LMAO :) My 8 year old daughter loves Teen Titans. She went as Raven for Halloween. She is always driving me nuts about recording both shows on Saturday: noon and 9PM, I think. Thanks for the tip.

You have to hit the OK button in the center of the arrows first to channel surf (while watching a channel) before hitting the arrows. It is little hard to get used to, but after awhile, I'm sure will become second nature.

I agree that the analog channels don't look as good as they used to. Apparently, that was the delay in the release of the box (according to the tech that did my install). Apparently all the compressing and de-compressing the box does with the hard drive makes the analog signal picture look worse. I would agree that grainy is a good description.

I miss the RF bypass though. I tried splitting the signal (one to the 6208, the other direct to the TV), but the analog channels looked AWFUL on the antenna input. They looked okay on the component input.

On my 6208, the "preview guide/grid listings" are now populated out for serveral days into the future. This data must "dribble" in over a period of time, and it got updated while I was at work the afternoon.
----

My 11-year old daughter also was "Raven" on Halloween; she and her younger brother are quite obsessive about not missing the show.

Joe Walko

Yes, it does take a little while to load, but you should get 14 Days of guide info when fully loaded. The analog pics are a little grainy due to the conversion from analog to digital and back to analog on the component or composite out, the DVI output is slightly better since it is digital out and only processed once. Moto is aware of the problem....the 2 tuner Box is slated for April or May...but as always I add at least 6 month to the current projections....this is a great thread, love reading all the observations...

I don't have a DVI HDTV, but I did try again connecting the 6208 into my 17" computer LCD monitor, which has a DVI input (non-HDCP). At first it wouldn't work, but once I set the 6208 to use 480P with 4-3 overide "off", then it worked fine. At 1080i or 480i the display frequency was outside the range that the monitor could handle.

I'm not real clear on what the future of non-HDCP compliant DVI display devices are with HD STBs such as the 6208; presumably it might keep working for everything except things such as Pay-per-view shows, which are supposedly going to enforce the copy protection flags.

Hooking a DCT6208 up to a 17" LCD computer via DVI would seem to be a very economical way to get a HD TV setup; 17" LCD computer monitors with DVI input are much less expensive than "true" 17" LCD "TV" displays ($400 vs $800).
Joe

Just got the 6208 installed. It is great to have 1 box now for digital and HD. Seems that the 1080i upconvert on the standard channels isn't too bad. Now if we can just get the firewire ports working for adding storage and recording capabilities!

Also, has anyone heard the rumors that Insight is being purchased by TWC? If true this could mean a significant increase in HD content...

-Alex-

Originally posted by bairda

Also, has anyone heard the rumors that Insight is being purchased by TWC? If true this could mean a significant increase in HD content...

-Alex-

As long as that doesn't mean a significant increase in $$ :)

Speaking of paying more, who would pay more not to have ads and clutter on the program guide and info bar? I think I'd be willing to pay a little more for that.

I don't know if anyone is interested (or if Insight is providing these with the 6208 boxes) but I have the 48 page 6208 Users Guide from Motorola in pdf. PM me your e-mail address and I can send a copy (or the link were I found it).

I'm scheduled for my 6208 install on the 17th. Can't wait....

they are coming out to my house on monday(1/12). I asked the girl if the firewire was funtional and she said it was'nt at this time.

Does anyone know if the optical out is there or is it covered up?

Originally posted by silvermaxd
Does anyone know if the optical out is there or is it covered up? If you're speaking of the Toslink optical sound connection then yes, that's how I have my 6208 connected to my A/V receiver.

Originally posted by Rick214
If you're speaking of the Toslink optical sound connection then yes, that's how I have my 6208 connected to my A/V receiver.

That be the one! Did they sell you the cable or did you use your own?

Insight did not provide the optical cable. I had to.

Quick question ... Does the new insight box activate the Component outputs when it "wakes up" to do a background recording? I am wondering how this may affect the auto switching of some switches.

Well after about 5 hours of 2 Insight techs trying to figure out why my premium channels weren't coming thru, I finally got my new 6208 setup. Very nice although I'm a little dissapointed with the quality of the analog channels especially as there's no way (that I can see) of bypassing the box like with the old sets. With the amount of money i pay each month for cable you would of thought they could find some way of giving me a decent set of analog channels. Guess I've got to go a buy a DVI cable now. Is the DVI output even activated?

gnj1958
The literature on the Motorolla sight shows an F connector output that you should be able to send directly to your TV to view analog. As a matter of fact that is the way it describes viewing one show while another is recording.

FYI...all of the video out connections can be used simultaneously. Component, S-video and composite all pump out video at the same time. However, the user guide will only appear on the component output on my system. This may be due to the fact that I am bypassing the default 480i convert on the non-hd channels and upconverting 1080i to my projector.

Does anyone know if there is any "stretch" modes for 4:3 content so I can stretch it to my 1080i register on my projector without the side blanking? I have seen that the new Scientific Atlanta 8000 model can do this.

-Alex-

Originally posted by Briands
gnj1958
The literature on the Motorolla sight shows an F connector output that you should be able to send directly to your TV to view analog. As a matter of fact that is the way it describes viewing one show while another is recording.

I tried that. It only sends whatever channel the box is set to. You also have to be tuned to channel 4 on the TV.

It needs the optional RF Bypass module which is not included with the models that Insight is distributing. See the two different diagrams on page 8 of the white User Guide - we have the one of the left, without the RF Bypass module.

There's a related option on the Menu under Setup to enable RF Bypass. By default it is "off"; turning it "on" has no effect since the boxes don't have the Bypass Module.

Joe

One "Last" question for you guys who have the new Insight box. Are you using the built in cable modem?

I tried messing with the built-in DOCSIS cable-modem without success. The "Interfaces" page on the diagnostics screen shows that the DOCSIS modem is active, but keep in mind the the DOCSIS technology is probably also used for the STB itself to communicate with Insight's head-end equipment.

The same Interfaces screen, though, showed the "10BT", which I presume to be the Ethernet port on the back of the STB, in a "Not Installed" state. This status did not change when I connected the STB to an Ethernet router. On the flip-side, though, the router did get an active "link" from the STB, so the ethernet is "alive", at least at the physical level. I fiddled with it for a while, but never saw a single packet transmitted by the STB over the ethernet.

My guess is that the hardware & firmware are all there, but that Insight currently has this feature disabled. They probably don't need the support headache right now. Presumably, in the future, it would be more economical for them to enable it, as opposed to providing "free" (under Triple Play) or otherwise subsidized external Cable Modems.

Personally, my interest in using the cable modem integrated into the STB is simply to be able to eliminate a "split" in the cable. Even with an Insight-provided amplifier, my analog channels have always been somewhat sub-par. Interestingly enough, this problem got worse when I got the "digital phone service"; the grey Arriss box on the outside of the house which provides the phone-service itself acts like a "splitter", sucking the signal down several db (sorry, getting a bit off-topic here...)

Joe

First of all, I would like to thank you all.
This forum is a great source of info.

I am in the process of installing five of the 6208's in a little theater room we are building downtown.

They will drive two 42" plasmas in our new office on main st.

I have two of the 6208's on hand.


Has anyone found any info on the "IR" port?

I need to control (just) one of them from another room.
My IR repeater wants to change the channel on all of them.I need to hardwire it to one of them.

The book is useless

Thanks in advance
woo

I believe that the IR port is used to control another devise and not to have the 6208 controlled (see the diagram on page 4 of the user’s guide and the description of the IR port). You can always use something like a Home Theater Master MX-800. I think that it can be used to control different installs of the same hardware.

Thanks buckwheat.
I guess its time to build a "Cardboard Shroud" for the IR Transmitter.

P.S.
We will have an open house for our new offices on Jan. 30th
618 w. main st.

(Just a couple of offices and a screening room)


Thanks again to the forum.
I have been busy lately and have not had time to chat
You guys are great
woo

Good to hear from you again, woo. Been wondering what you were up to.

And thanks for the info on the open house. Looking forward to it!

As a few mentioned, SD channels on the new 6208 STB REALLY suck!! The Insight guy told me that the problem is the digital conversion it does on analog channels (hmm, well maybe). In any case he said its an issue Insight's aware of and are working on, though he also said that didn't necessarily mean it would be resolved any time soon.

Since I don't watch much non-HD content anymore (except the occasional Fox Sports football games), and I love the TIVOHD like device, it's not a big problem for me. But if you watch lots of non-HD content - BE WARNED! You might not want to make the jump just yet.

Originally posted by HTCrazy
As a few mentioned, SD channels on the new 6208 STB REALLY suck!! The Insight guy told me that the problem is the digital conversion it does on analog channels (hmm, well maybe). In any case he said its an issue Insight's aware of and are working on, though he also said that didn't necessarily mean it would be resolved any time soon.

Since I don't watch much non-HD content anymore (except the occasional Fox Sports football games), and I love the TIVOHD like device, it's not a big problem for me. But if you watch lots of non-HD content - BE WARNED! You might not want to make the jump just yet.

Does this happen only with the DVI or component outputs? ...Can you watch non HD via a composite output or SVideo and if so does that help any?

I know from my experience with satellite viewing that I prefer using my composite input for SD channels and switching to component only for my HD.

-AKH

Hmm...maybe I am just lucky or have a great connection or box (or my old digital box sucked) but my picture on analog channels is markedly improved since I got the 6208.

The difference may very well be the fact that the analog is now being upconvereted to 1080i and passed through component rather than the svideo to HTPC via Dscaler setup I had with my old box. Whatever the reason, I have a much better picture on my analogs.

I haven't seen any gross artifacts from the DVR and "live" tivo capabilities the box uses for compression on the HD. Looks as good or better than a TIVO set to "best" compression for "real-time" and recorded shows.

My observations are from a 108" picture from a NEC 85 CRT so, I am pretty certain that any glaring compression problems would be visible.

Oh well, everyones mileage will vary.

Now if we can just get those SA 8000 boxes that are rumoured to be the next replacement for the 6208. Yeah I know...I should be thankful for what I have now!
-Alex-:D

OTA WLKY DT- No HD for today's playoff game? Colts vs Kansas City. Has someone forgotten to 'flip the switch'? SURELY this is an HD game?

-AKH

Thinking the same thing myself. Anyone have the control room number?

You have to call the newsroom. I just called and was told that this game was not offered by CBS in HD. I tried to correct them without success.

edit: they just flipped the HD switch!

Originally posted by Rick214
You have to call the newsroom. I just called and was told that this game was not offered by CBS in HD. I tried to correct them without success.

edit: they just flipped the HD switch!

Got same response from there newsroom. Please everyone email jmercer@hearst.com and let him know this is unacceptable. They just have no clue.

Just got my Motorolas DCT6208 delivered and installed yesterday. I was excited only to find a number of shortcomings in the unit. Since I am new to this technology a few questions/comments come to mind.

- Horrible analog picture quality through the unit. The digital channels aren't much better and not nearly as good as the direct connected cable to my widescreen. I made a change in the video outpu on the box to 480p and found marginal improvement in the channels. HD channels were very good, especially Bravo full screen format.
- One tuner recording. Cannot record on one channel and watch another.
- RF Bypass. There does not seem to be a way to by pass the converter and go directly to the TV. Very disappointing.
- Integral Cabel Modem. Doesn't seem to be activated unfortunately.
- Local Channels. Is there a reason the local channels (WHAS,WAVE, WLKY) don't braodcast in widescreen mode or is my set up incorrect?

Any suggestions would be welcome to help improve the quality of the picture! I am leaning on returning the unit to Insight and saying "thanks but , no thanks"

Why can't you install the 6208 yourself? Is there some magic required to make it work?

Chris

Originally posted by bairda


My observations are from a 108" picture from a NEC 85 CRT so, I am pretty certain that any glaring compression problems would be visible.

...

-Alex-:D

Alex, If memory serves, I don't think the XG85 has component input. What transcoder are you using?

Anyone else make a recommendation?

Is it just me or is anybody else getting a blank screen where WAVE HD should be? It's been happening a lot to me lately.

No Law & Order:CI in HD ARGGHHH!!!!

Originally posted by gnj1958
Is it just me or is anybody else getting a blank screen where WAVE HD should be? It's been happening a lot to me lately.

No Law & Order:CI in HD ARGGHHH!!!!

They were on with no audio yesterday and have not been on the air at all today. Email for eng. dept. tjohnson@wave3tv.com

Originally posted by gnj1958
Is it just me or is anybody else getting a blank screen where WAVE HD should be? It's been happening a lot to me lately.

No Law & Order:CI in HD ARGGHHH!!!!

Blank here.... OTA... ZERO on the meter.

-AKH

Originally posted by bairda
Hmm...maybe I am just lucky or have a great connection or box (or my old digital box sucked) but my picture on analog channels is markedly improved since I got the 6208.

The difference may very well be the fact that the analog is now being upconvereted to 1080i and passed through component rather than the svideo to HTPC via Dscaler setup I had with my old box. Whatever the reason, I have a much better picture on my analogs.
-Alex-:D

It must be that you had a bad digital box. Even my installer acknowledged the problem with non-HD channels and the 6208 and said Insight was aware of it. I also have a 108" FP setup and was shocked by the difference. Using the DVI over component did slightly help - but its still like you're watching their usually crappy SD channels through a dirty mesh screen.

With smaller displays the difference shouldn't be as dramatic.

Brian, my XG85 has the ability to input component using just the RGB BNC's on the RGBHV card onboard. I really like this as I can use one card for both my HTPC and component inputs. The 85 will pick up the lack of sync from the H and V inputs and use the sync on green from the component and make a switch automatically to that register in the memory. Has really been great since my only other way would have been to use a transcoder or use a CAT 5 drop on the projector and some video baluns.

HTCrazy...could be that my old digital box was crappy. Can I ask if the degredation in the picture you see is compression artifacts (due to the DVR) or do you think it is actually in the digital signal before the compression?

-Alex-

I use a Key Digital transcoder for my HTPC. I'd recommend it.

I noticed Leno was not HD Friday night either. Strange.

I'm in Etown and I get about 65% on WLKY-DT and was getting around 85% on WAVE-DT but no Wave tonight and I picked up WHAS-DT the other night real well but now....nothing.....I have a yagi 59 element antenna....any help.....and why do the stations play with their digital feeds so much? Thanks all. GO COLTS!!!!

Can I ask if the degredation in the picture you see is compression artifacts (due to the DVR) or do you think it is actually in the digital signal before the compression?

It doesn't look like the kind of compression artifacts you get with, say, DVD's. The picture is washed out, grainy, and with some ugly artifacts I'd have to look at again to try to describe.

The DVR compression is actually pretty good. With HD channels I don't notice the difference between DVR or live. In either case, though HD was subtly better with my old box. It's grainier and has other artifacts that you notice up close - but its not major, and those artifacts are much reduced using DVI. I'd guess people without a FP setup won't notice.

Originally posted by HTCrazy
The DVR compression is actually pretty good. With HD channels I don't notice the difference between DVR or live. Compression was discussed in the 6208 thread in the AVS HDTV Recorders forum. Here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3064098#post3064098) is a quote from one:Originally posted by RSawdey
Digital DVRs don't need a 'quality of compression' option, because the signals are coming precompressed. They just copy what they are given to the Hard Drive before it goes to the MPEG2 decoder for display. Always full quality.

Insight just installed the 6208 and the HD looks pretty darn good. I watched part of a 1962 movie on discoveryHD and wow it was unbelievable. I had to get back to work so I did'nt have time to check everything out but it was looking promising for sure! The guide will take a little getting used to for sure. The time was'nt showing on my box after I turned it off:confused: .

There's an option to enable the "time" display on the box, even when it's turned off. With the box on, press "menu", then select "main menu", "set-up", "cable box", then "time", and change it to "on".

Originally posted by J_Slimz
I'm in Etown and I get about 65% on WLKY-DT and was getting around 85% on WAVE-DT but no Wave tonight and I picked up WHAS-DT the other night real well but now....nothing.....I have a yagi 59 element antenna....any help.....and why do the stations play with their digital feeds so much? Thanks all. GO COLTS!!!!

It's probably more to do with atmospheric conditions than stations playing with their digital feeds.

This site may give you some idea when you can hope to get better reception:

http://www.iprimus.ca/~hepburnw/tropo.html

Sorry....I am stupid to this. Exactly what does this tell me? Sorry for the ignorance? Thanks for the help though.

Originally posted by Rick214
Insight did not provide the optical cable. I had to.

They "did" provide a toslink optical cable and it was a lil extra $$.

Does anyone have the 1394 firewire connection going to the TV?

Originally posted by J_Slimz
Sorry....I am stupid to this. Exactly what does this tell me? Sorry for the ignorance? Thanks for the help though.

When Louisville is in a colored area (esp. the green/yellow/pink) that means the atmospheric conditions for allowing a signal to travel farther are more optimal.

It's days like those when you could, say, pick up Indy or Cincy signals rather well. I used to do that a fair amount a couple of years ago.

I checked with Insight; they are not currently supporting the integrated cable-modem on the 6208:


Dear Mr. Walko:

Thank you for your website inquiry. At this time, the Motorola 6208 will
only be used for Digital, HD and DVR functions. We apologize for any
inconvenience.

Sincerely,

Karen Stokes
Insight Communications

Last night my receiver picked up 15-5 and 15-6 both with color bars. Can anyone including the guys at KET advise what this is all about?

Originally posted by beetle
Last night my receiver picked up 15-5 and 15-6 both with color bars. Can anyone including the guys at KET advise what this is all about?

We added our senate and house feeds from frankfort.
They normaly feed the frankfort cable system.
This "Should" only be for the current session of state government.

I got a DVI-D cable to hook my 6208 to my Sony TV and I really can't see much difference. But then HD already looked so good I can't imagine how it could be any better

WLKY audio has digital distortion again tonight 1/16. All that can confirm this please email Jim Mercer at WLKY with a complaint.


jmercer@hearst.com

Audio was out for a while on WAVE yesterday, too. And what's with Jay Leno not being in HD the last couple of nights??

Originally posted by STEVENSHS
WLKY audio has digital distortion again tonight 1/16. All that can confirm this please email Jim Mercer at WLKY with a complaint.
jmercer@hearst.com

I hope they have this cleared up for the Super Bowl.

Originally posted by Scott Shanks
I hope they have this cleared up for the Super Bowl.

Just checked and my first email to WLKY about this problem was 3/9/03 and it is not fixed yet.

Hey Stevenshs I'm with ya on the frustration with WLKY's audio, but don't give up guys. There have to be more and more if us emailing them complaining so lets keep it up until they cut the s*%t and get it right. I too hope this is good to go before the Super Bowl!

Make your opinion heard email WLKY! THey really do listen and the more of us that sound off the better chance that they will actually fix the problem!

Called WHAS today and asked about Wake vs. Duke in HD..said he would check on it...never flipped switch. There are over 5.8 million homes in the US that watches HDTV and it is only growing. You would think that our locals would take this a little more serious and keep their customers happy. Email and call when ever possible. Keep up the good work on this thread. I've learned a lot!!

Does anyone else have digital phone service from Insight? I do, and the phone service is fine, but I swear that my analog channel picture quality degraded noticeably when they installed the gray box that provides the phone service. This box gets power from the Insight cable network, so it has to be the first device in the chain, thus I can't split the cable before the phone box. Or maybe the power they insert on the line for the phone box causes signal degredation? I've had Insight out to look at it a couple of time to no avail. I did have an Insight amp installed, which only marginally improved the analog picture quality.

Any similiar experiences?

I never noticed a difference in quality after I dropped the phone service. I got tired of paying the $18 + taxes/fees on that 2nd phone line that I never wanted in the first place.

Cell phone only now!

Has anyone asked Jim Mercer about when WLKY will begin to pass CBS's DD5.1 feed?

Originally posted by Scott Shanks
Has anyone asked Jim Mercer about when WLKY will begin to pass CBS's DD5.1 feed?

Have not asked because for almost one year they have not been able to get the current audio fixed. I received a reply today from Mr. Mercer:

"During the times that I tuned in to check these feeds I noted no distortion
but I did not watch all night. I will talk to the engineer who was on duty
to see if he caught any thing.
Thank
Jim"

They claim not to hear it. Once again I ask all the hear it to email Mr. Mercer. With all audio problems.


jmercer@hearst.com

I think he thinks it is just me:mad: :mad:

Its not just you. I get it OTA and some nites I can't even watch it because the audio is so terrible.

Originally posted by peabobb
Its not just you. I get it OTA and some nites I can't even watch it because the audio is so terrible.

Please email Mr. Mercer we need him to know it is wide spread and not just me.

jmercer@hearst.com

Thanks.

I received this response from Mr. Mercer yesterday:

"WLKY is trying to isolate the audio distortion problem. I have asked my
engineers to check this feed at the cbeginning of each show, our master
board operators monitor the NTSC feed full time. Hopefully we will
determine the problem soon. We pass network HD audio through embedded which
makes locating the problem difficult. We will get it.

CBS sent out some infornation on 5.1 sound early last year and WLKY
purchased equipment needed. CBS has sent no further updates to me about the
launch schedule.

Jim"

It seems to me I read in the HDTV programming section that other CBS affiliates have 5.1 up and running. I wonder if WLKY never got the info or CBS only sent it to their largest affiliates first. At least they appear to be working on the distortion portion.

Can't wait for that audio problem to be fixed!

Good news, though, is I get the combo cable box tomorrow when they hook up service at the new location. Sure will be nice not having to swap cables behind the TV to switch between SD and HD! ;)

Originally posted by Scott Shanks
I received this response from Mr. Mercer yesterday:

"WLKY is trying to isolate the audio distortion problem. I have asked my
engineers to check this feed at the cbeginning of each show, our master
board operators monitor the NTSC feed full time. Hopefully we will
determine the problem soon. We pass network HD audio through embedded which
makes locating the problem difficult. We will get it.

CBS sent out some infornation on 5.1 sound early last year and WLKY
purchased equipment needed. CBS has sent no further updates to me about the
launch schedule.

Jim"

It seems to me I read in the HDTV programming section that other CBS affiliates have 5.1 up and running. I wonder if WLKY never got the info or CBS only sent it to their largest affiliates first. At least they appear to be working on the distortion portion.


Audio distortion on all CBS broadcast tonight 1/22. Sent yet another email to MR. Mercer. Rapidly approaching the 1 year anniversary of my first email to him about this problem.


Steve

Originally posted by Scott Shanks
I received this response from Mr. Mercer yesterday:

"WLKY is trying to isolate the audio distortion problem. I have asked my
engineers to check this feed at the cbeginning of each show, our master
board operators monitor the NTSC feed full time. Hopefully we will
determine the problem soon. We pass network HD audio through embedded which
makes locating the problem difficult. We will get it.

CBS sent out some infornation on 5.1 sound early last year and WLKY
purchased equipment needed. CBS has sent no further updates to me about the
launch schedule.

Jim"

It seems to me I read in the HDTV programming section that other CBS affiliates have 5.1 up and running. I wonder if WLKY never got the info or CBS only sent it to their largest affiliates first. At least they appear to be working on the distortion portion.


Maybe if they got 5.1 equip up and running the current audio problem would be rendered null anyway?

After reading Mr Mercer's reply... and after seeing this other (now related) thread just a few days ago... it would seem there's a communication problem between CBS Natl and WLKY.
Here is the thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=350912&highlight=cbs+5.1)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=350912&highlight=cbs+5.1

Anyway, as BobRoss has indicated, CBS broadcasts their live events in DD5.1.
I believe they launched DD5.1 nearly a year ago (in time for, or right around last year's Grammy Awards). If WLKY is waiting on a memo, it is a year late and probably not coming at this point. CBS DD5.1 has been launched for months (for live events). It sounds like BobRoss and Jim Mercer need to be introduced ;)

-AKH

[I believe they launched DD5.1 nearly a year ago (in time for, or right around last year's Grammy Awards). If WLKY is waiting on a memo, it is a year late and probably not coming at this point. CBS DD5.1 has been launched for months (for live events). It sounds like BobRoss and Jim Mercer need to be introduced ;)

-AKH [/B][/QUOTE]

I sent an email to Mr. Ross this morning asking him to please help us in Louisville with the audio distortion and to inform WLKY that all live CBS HD is DD. The distortion problem being the first order of business. Other than all of us showing up at WLKY with picket signs I am not sure what else to do.

Steve

Originally posted by STEVENSHS
Other than all of us showing up at WLKY with picket signs I am not sure what else to do.

Steve

I've got some posterboard and a magic marker. ;)

Originally posted by Scott Shanks
I've got some posterboard and a magic marker. ;)

Just received a return email from Bob Ross head of engineering at CBS:

Let's see what I can do - I know their group engineer very well

Bob

I just hope this gets the ball rolling.

Steve

I lost a lot of signal to WAVE and WHAS. Would the ice have something to do with this? Damn.....missed the Practice in HD.....any help is appeciated.

Yes

Originally posted by J_Slimz
I lost a lot of signal to WAVE and WHAS. Would the ice have something to do with this? Damn.....missed the Practice in HD.....any help is appeciated.
Ice builds up on the antennas and stops the signal.
VSWR goes through the roof
Causes the transmitter to shut down.
Most folks do not have "Antenna heaters" on there DTV antennas.....

Originally posted by J_Slimz
I lost a lot of signal to WAVE and WHAS. Would the ice have something to do with this? Damn.....missed the Practice in HD.....any help is appeciated.

I checked my reception on WAVE and WLKY DT's last night at 11:30 or so (after seeing this post) and both were coming in fine. Signal strength/quality was at 100% on the Toshiba DST3000 here in Bedford, IN. WHAS DT doesn't reach here at all so I wouldn't expect to get it anyway (unless they ever go to full power).

-AKH

Hello: I am located about 15 miles west of E-Town. Have a RS Ru-190 VHF/UHF antenna and Channel Master 7777 pre-amp. I receive WaveDT and WLKYDT very strong and usually fine, except for WAVE going to sleep and WLKY audio distortion. I did get WHAS just at breakup level and now I can't get WHASDT at all, are they running low power or is the best it is going to get and I have to get out my tower and stack some Yagi's. I have called and e-mailed WAVE when they forget to switch HDTV on.

I have designed video equipment for 40 years and sold much to TV stations, and I think we are dealing with amateurs here, it is very disappointing as this is all I can receive here on a farm, other than my C-Band dish and HDTV receiver.

Mike T W6MXV

Originally posted by mtallent
Hello: I am located about 15 miles west of E-Town. Have a RS Ru-190 VHF/UHF antenna and Channel Master 7777 pre-amp. I receive WaveDT and WLKYDT very strong and usually fine, except for WAVE going to sleep and WLKY audio distortion. I did get WHAS just at breakup level and now I can't get WHASDT at all, are they running low power or is the best it is going to get and I have to get out my tower and stack some Yagi's. I have called and e-mailed WAVE when they forget to switch HDTV on.

I have designed video equipment for 40 years and sold much to TV stations, and I think we are dealing with amateurs here, it is very disappointing as this is all I can receive here on a farm, other than my C-Band dish and HDTV receiver.

Mike T W6MXV

This was the last thing I've heard about WHAS DT increasing their power:

"At this time there are no plans to increase power on the WHAS-DT55."

I was hoping they at least had a public timetable that was on the horizon. Maybe in time for next season's Monday Night Football. The above didn't sound very promising.

That was from earlier this month (Jan 2004) so it is fairly recent. I know WHAS DT 'can' go to higher power because they turned it up for last year's Super Bowl. Unfortunately, afterwards they turned it back down again. It is disappointing because here in Bedford at my location I was able to receive the WHAS DT signal when they 'upped' it temporarily, but can't normally receive WRTV DT signal out of Indy.... So no ABC Digital for me :(

NBC (WAVE DT), CBS (WLKY DT), and PBS (WTIU DT) are what is so far consistently receivable here (OTA).

I imagine others in this area may have better luck with the Indy stations than my results due to terrain to my immediate north hindering me.

-AKH

Can anyone tell me if their HD programming is in 16:9 or 4:3?

I had Insight install the HD package last week and the local HD channels do not fill up the screen on my 43" Widescreen. Fooling around with the aspect ratio does help a little, but not enough to fill up the entire screen. I do not have a problem with ESPN-HD, Bravo-HD, etc.

Anyone experiencing the same? Any help would be appreciated.

the local HD channels put black bars on the left and right of the non-hd 4:3 content. If you have a 4:3 HDTV, then, it's also most likely putting black bars on top and bottom, giving you an overall smaller picture.

But to answer your question, the HDTV standard is 16x9, not 4x3. Try watching the local channel during primetime, to see it go to full 16x9.

Steve,

All the locals use 16:9 for true HD broadcasts (unless they don't switch to HD and remain in SDTV mode). They use 4:3 for SD broadcasts. If you are getting 4:3 on a DTV channel it usually means they are showing SD, not HD. However, you may need to check the menu in your STB to see that the aspect ratio is set to 16:9 and that you are getting 1080i and not downconverting to 480i. If your other HD cable channels are coming in OK then this second issue is unlikely. Check a TV guide like Titantv.com or go to the broadcasters website (ABC,CBS...) to check to see if the broadcast is actually in HD. If it is then yes it should be 16:9.

I guess what I was seeing was an SD broadcast on the HD channel for WHAS, WLKY, etc.

Originally posted by mtallent
Hello: I am located about 15 miles west of E-Town. Have a RS Ru-190 VHF/UHF antenna and Channel Master 7777 pre-amp. I receive WaveDT and WLKYDT very strong and usually fine, except for WAVE going to sleep and WLKY audio distortion. I did get WHAS just at breakup level and now I can't get WHASDT at all, are they running low power or is the best it is going to get and I have to get out my tower and stack some Yagi's. I have called and e-mailed WAVE when they forget to switch HDTV on.

I have designed video equipment for 40 years and sold much to TV stations, and I think we are dealing with amateurs here, it is very disappointing as this is all I can receive here on a farm, other than my C-Band dish and HDTV receiver.

Mike T W6MXV


Here is my deal....I'm just south of E-town close to Glendale and I have a yagi 59 element antenna...no pre-amp. I can pick up WAVE-DT and WLKY-DT with good success....about 69% signal......I tried a pe-amp and it overpowered the signals....so I tried an in line signal amplifier.....if I turn it on I can get about 65% signal for WHAS-DT vs. 9% with it off, but with it on WAVE-DT comes in but it has a lot of drop out and WLKY-DT drops to about 54% and doesn't lock in........this is my situation and it is kind of awkward but it is sufficient for now since not a lot is in HD that I would be flipping back and forth on. hope this helps.

Originally posted by J_Slimz
Here is my deal....I'm just south of E-town close to Glendale and I have a yagi 59 element antenna...no pre-amp. I can pick up WAVE-DT and WLKY-DT with good success....about 69% signal......I tried a pe-amp and it overpowered the signals....so I tried an in line signal amplifier.....if I turn it on I can get about 65% signal for WHAS-DT vs. 9% with it off, but with it on WAVE-DT comes in but it has a lot of drop out and WLKY-DT drops to about 54% and doesn't lock in........this is my situation and it is kind of awkward but it is sufficient for now since not a lot is in HD that I would be flipping back and forth on. hope this helps.

Perhaps you can find an Ant splitter. Then get an inline attenuator. Lastly get an RF selector box. Bring your ant into the splitter (this would be after the preamp powersupply). Feed one leg directly into the selector. Feed the other leg into the attenuator and then into the selector.

Then you'd have buttons to select the attenuated signal for your higher powered channels or the normal signal for more distant/weaker channels.

Just thinking off the top of my head. There's probably a more elegant solution to your problem.

-AKH

http://www.ket.org/pressroom/2004/06/KET5+6_homepage.html
Don't shoot me, I'm only the messenger

Woowoo...
The link does not work

Does for me....??????
Oh well, Here it is

KET launches two new digital channels for legislative coverage, adds to datacasting service
Beginning Feb. 2, KET is providing unprecedented coverage of daily legislative proceedings through the launch of two new digital channels dedicated to live, full-session coverage of the General Assembly. Utilizing the extended bandwidth offered by digital TV, KET has added two more digital channels to its existing four. KET5 broadcasts live gavel-to-gavel coverage of Kentucky House of Representatives chamber session and selected committee meetings, and KET6 does the same for the Kentucky Senate.

"The addition of KET5 and KET6 is a public service to the people of our Commonwealth and much more," said KET Executive Director Malcolm Wall. "Working with the Governor's Office for Technology, we can now give interested citizens, schools, universities and agencies throughout Kentucky the means to be more informed and in touch with critical decisions being made in Frankfort on a daily basis."

While KET continues to offer videostreamed coverage of Senate and House chambers and selected committee meetings live via KET's Web site at www.ket.org/legislature, the addition of KET5 and KET6 allows this coverage to be delivered directly to televisions equipped to receive digital signals. KET is also offering KET5 and KET6 free to local cable companies and satellite providers.

KET's live coverage of the Kentucky House and Senate is also available through KET's datacasting services to computers equipped with datacasting receivers. More information on KET's datacasting can be obtained by calling Mike Clark at (859) 258- 7254 or sending an e-mail query to dtvhelp@ket.org.

KET continues to provide daily highlights from the General Assembly Monday through Friday at 11/10 p.m. CT on KET1. The 2004 Kentucky General Assembly in Regular Session provides a report on each day's most significant activities.

Here's the email I sent to dtvhelp@ket.org

I think it is terrible that KET added even MORE digital channels to channel 15. Most viewers who have a digital TV that is capable of viewing these channels most likely have a 30" or much larger screen HDTV. These extremely digitally compressed and/or extremely low bandwidth channels look just horrible on these TV's. These TV's are designed for FULL bandwidth glorious HDTV! I don't want to watch anything but HD - most people don't once they get a taste of HD that is not multicasted to death. Just who do you think are going to watch this visual garbage? I sure won't. Give the public the bandwidth for HD! Then maybe we can stand to watch what you're broadcasting!

I think it is a shame that this area of the country cannot get the great HD PBS programming that I am hearing is being sent out by PBS to much of the rest of the country. Multicasting will die. The visual image it projects on TV's that can display a digital signal is no competition for full bandwidth HDTV.

KET has plans for several HD options for our viewers. They are in the works...

And no I don't think most viewers have large screen sets as several cable companies have picked us the SD services and are placing them on their standard digital tiers where they can be viewed on "non HD" analog sets..

KET is REQUIRED to simulcast the programming from the analog on the digital service at least 12 hours per day (soon to be 18). Any new PBS HD service will not be a copy of KET1 so that will REQUIRE multicasting...

So unless stations give up their analog to a downconverted HD Feed 18 hours per day all PBS stations will be facing this issue.



Stay Tuned..

William

Originally posted by MichaelZ
Programming note, UofL is on today in HD on ESPN!
Go Cards!
The game looked incredible! (Except for the outcome :( )

If Duke had lost, that would have softened the blow of the UofL loss. ;)

Anyone seeing all kinds of breakups on the video/audio from WHAS-DT via Insight today? It's unwatchable.

MichaelZ

A little late with the info. I just got my 6208 yesterday and I hadn't set it to record the game. And of course I was away from the house. Doh.

I guess I'll have to start watching the HD listings more closely.

Yes i see it but is not on WHAS 11 OTA! hope Insight fix it soon!!! :(

Hey Snakez, Did you notice Insight added HBO Latino?

yep :) i have HBO Latino to I like to get Nicktoons soon :)plz call Insight and tell then you like to have then get Nicktoons to :)

I have to say initially I viewed KET as a leader in the development of DTV/HDTV. At first I watched KET as the sole source of DTV in Kentuckiana. I had high hopes that they would keep leading the way for other channels. My opinion has definitely changed over the past 3 years.

I must agree with you Rick, as a big screen viewer with access to HD channels I now do not bother with KET which, sorry if the truth hurts, s one of the poorest looking DTV channels I get. The picture is faded, blurry and compared to even the SDTV broadcasts it is sub-par. For this I am sad. With the addition of more multicasts I doubt that I will ever watch KET! Too bad as a Public Broadcaster they seem to shoot for the lowest common denominator who "don't think most viewers have large screen sets". Not exactly forward thinking!!! Some folks in the Commonwealth still don't have indoor plumbing.

PBS has joined the ranks of UPN and WB. At least Fox is going to be HD eventually.

PBS, ah what might have been . . .

Rant over.

I hate to say it, but I will no longer watch the programming on KET either. I have a 65" Mitsubishi, and HDTV is fantastic. The lower definition programming just doesn't do it for me, what is the point? We have had low definition color for 40 years.

It is kind of like a cable modem or DSL. Once you have experienced high-speed internet, you will never go back to dial-up. I have experienced true HDTV, and I do not want to go back standard definition.


Chris

I'm in partial agreement. I PREFER to watch HDTV over SDTV. However, I do generally choose content over picture quality. It is a shame that the public TV stations are taking steps backward on the quality of the delivered product. But from their perspective they are expanding the availability of the content which really is their prime directive (i.e. PUBLIC TV).

On to a different subject. Are there any Formula 1 fans (like me) who are outraged that F1 isn't HD? F1 has always maintained that it is the technological leader in ALL aspects of motor racing but yet they deliver a sub-standard feed to the world. Oh well… I guess that NASCAR will hold this crown from now on…

I can tell you we are working toward more HD content in the Louisville area. I wish Rick had posted the reply he got... ( its not fair to bash and dash)..

As far as the two additional services go, they were created without degrading the existing services. As I have said many times before KET1 and KET2 also feed the analog transmitters and therefore cannot be removed from service during HD transmission. Statewide operation is a whole lot different ballgame than local based facilities. We do public service... not lip serivce...



Bandwidth used by KET3,4,5,6 are all re-allocated to HD when we are in that mode.

When the analogs go away additional bandwidth will be available for HD just be a little understanding. There is a whole lot you don't know and yes we are getting a lot of interest in KET5 and 6.

William, thanks for your message. Are there plans to add more than 1 digital channel to the Louisville market? You mention that additional bandwidth will be available when the analogs go away. But that timing is 10 years away, correct ?

I personally appreciate the time you and woowoo take to respond to our questions. KET is the only digital channel in the Louisville market that participates in the HD forums. If the group is going to bash, let's start with WAVE. They purposely restrict bandwidth for no logical reason. If NBC starts broadcasting sports / racing in HD, don't plan on watching it on WAVE HD.

If we want better quality PBS HD, talk to your state representative. It probably comes down to funding. If you don't know your state rep, see them on KET5 and 6 (ha ha)

I have also had reports that the new Motorola/GI single box HD system that Insight is using doesn't do SD as well as the two box systems did. (Just reports)


Can't comment on the timeline other than to say if it was up to me the analogs would already be gone..


Things are in the works ( if the funding holds)

Originally posted by William Smith "I wish Rick had posted the reply he got... ( its not fair to bash and dash)"I posted my original email to KET here with the only intention that it might inspire others to take it upon themselves to send KET their own opinion about KET's announcement to expand to 6 subchannels on channel 15 - not to "bash and dash".

The person from KET who responed to my email identified himself as the Director of Program Operations Division - KET. I had a couple of quite lenthy but polite exchanges with him via email. Neither his nor my viewpoint has changed as a result of these exchanges and I did not feel posting his reply and then my reply to his reply, etc would be appropriate as these were private emails between ourselves. It seems you got a copy of his reply. Did he also send you a copy of my reply to his reply?

See, this is already getting tiresome.

As far as the two additional services go, they were created without degrading the existing servicesHow can you not further degrade the existing bandwidth when you go from dividing it up 4 ways to dividing it up 6 ways?

As I have said many times before KET1 and KET2 also feed the analog transmitters and therefore cannot be removed from service during HD transmission.)I understand this but the fact remains any HD transmitted in this environment is degraded from full bandwidth.

Statewide operation is a whole lot different ballgame than local based facilities. We do public service... not lip serivce....)Not to take away from the great things PBS does, but trying to justify 6 sub-channel multicasting while not giving full bandwidth to HD when it is broadcasted is hard to swallow.

Bandwidth used by KET3,4,5,6 are all re-allocated to HD when we are in that modeI'm sure this helps but still there are 2 subchannels active taking away bandwidth (quality) when you're supposed to be showing HD.

When the analogs go away additional bandwidth will be available for HD just be a little understanding. There is a whole lot you don't know and yes we are getting a lot of interest in KET5 and 6.I still don't understand why someone who owns a (most likely a large screen) digital TV, which is what is needed to view all these subchannels, would tolerate the terrible picture it will present for very long?

Give me full bandwidth HD and then I may consider watching what you have to present. We have way too many HD choices now (and only growing) to spend much time watching poor quality (visually) TV.

I'm really not in the mood to get into a heated debate. We can certainly agree to disagree. But accusing me of "bash and dash" got me going :p

.............. Rick

I think KET has taken strides to keep the quality as good as possible under their bandwidth constraints. Adding 5 and 6 should have little impact as they will probably send a minimum amount of bandwidth down subs 3,4,5,6 when passing the "HD" from PBS in the evening.

Most agree KET HD picture leaves a lot to be desired. The PBS programming they pass in HD looks soft, not as good as a DVD. PBS only passes a few shows in HD, so it has little impact on my viewing.

See PBS HD Schedule:
http://www.pbs.org/digitaltv/dtvsched.htm
notice many shows are "widescreen standard"

Some of our SD feeds are converted to analog format for use:

KET1 is the primary KET feed and is also delivered by the analog transmitters.

KET2 (also transmitted on Ch. 68 in the Louisville area) serves over 60 percent of the state with additional programming ( formerly delivered by satellite)

KET3 is our school service for all public schools in Kentucky. We are currently migrating this feed from satellite delivery to DTV. The signal is decoded to analog and feeds the existing analog television system in most schools.

KET4 ( Annenburg) is a professional development /adult learning service for teachers and non traditional students.

KET5 and KET6 are legislative coverage available to the public. These services can save money for the state by allowing various remote state offices to keep abreast of the session without having to travel to Frankfort.( for the cost of a set top box)

All services are available to all (including schools) who are equipped to receive DTV.


That is why I say most of the viewers of these services are not on high end systems. Count every analog set in schools and delivery in SD on cable.


The name says it all ... Kentucky Educational Television.

I think KET brings great value to the state, and they depend on pledges for part of their operating budget. In the future KET will have to carefully balance the cutting edge donor who wants NOVA in HD with those that give a blip about HD (see: Barney Lover). Most viewers today watch SD only, but the HD numbers are growing.

KET was the first HD station in the state when Paul Patton flipped the switch 5 years ago. Now with little to show, was this the path KET originally planned?

When did the demo at the state fair we did show HD, multicasting, and Datacasting.. so yes and no... what we did show is the potenital of DTV to meet the mission of public television.

We have always multicast as the same STL system has to feed the analogs as well as the digitals. The intention was and still is to run multicast during the day and HD when available ( within our program rights ) at night. We haven't really changes from that. We are still doing DTV despite several major budget cuts. What we have done is migrated our services to DTV to help offset those cuts and still maintain service.

The FCC also mandates the simulcast rules for stations that require the programming to be duplicated. .. I guess we could have gone the other way and dropped our entire fleet of services ( and downconvert the HD to analog) so that the one HD feed is on the DTV transmitters and a downconverted version is on the analogs but then we would have lost what makes us KET not PBS...Just an automated box with an ID once an hour.. ( and you complain about the shop at home channels)

Eventually the school feeds may move to some other distribution (Internet or I2) but right now the state can't afford it .

We don't put the services on without a reason..
and we do try to balance our bandwidth demands... within our budget.


PBS promised a lot of HD material but then backed off due to production costs..

HD is a goal during prime time for KET...

Oh and in case your wondering, we have covered the sessions of the General Assembly since the late 70's so adding KET5 and KET6 did not generate any additional production costs. ... it only made the coverage more available to the public.

Has anyone heard if Insight plans on adding any addition channels to the HD pak like INHD/INHD2 anytime soon?

A friend just had Insight show up to install an HDTV box. Here is a copy of his later email to me:

Well the guy came today to install my hdtv...he told me i might not like it. When you use the HDTV box, the analog chans actually look worse than before. He was right...after watching for a few mins, I had him take it back out.

I dont wanna pay extra for HDTV only to have all my other chans looks like s***. He said they should be telling cusomers about this problem over the phone but they arent. He said lots of people do what I did, and tell them to un-install ... :-(

He then said supposedly they will have it all lined out in a month. So I might try it again... :-\

Are there no workarounds for the analog tv channels (S-video out? Composite out?)? Is it really that bad? I knew of the complaints from the forum when he told me he was ordering the HDTV pkg but I didn't want to say anything and skew his opinion of the analog channels thinking maybe it wasn't 'that' bad and he wouldn't notice.

A couple of points stood out... the installer telling him 'lots' of people are asking for the boxes to be removed because of the regular channels looking bad. ...And the installer telling him they will have it lined out in a month. That is the first I've heard of Insight addressing the problem.

Anyone else hear that Insight is working on that problem?

-AKH

In my opinion, the analog channels look slightly better than when my box was first installed (maybe I'm just getting used to it). The picture doesn't have that "looking through dirty gauze" look that it had when the 6208 was first installed. I also must say that I don't watch a whole lot of the analog channels (TVLand, TLC, and ESPN2). The thing I don't like is watching a basketball games on ESPN2 thru the 6208. It looks like ghosts are following the players around when there is alot of fast motion. I ran a cable direct to the TV and bypassed the HD box. I use that set up in certain cases.

Scott I'm glad that you said that. I thought that I was just having a flashback... After about 1-2 days I could swear that the channels cleared up. The only thing that I can think that could cause this is something with the buffer being full. Has anyone else experienced this "clearing up"?

I agree that SD doesn't look as bad as when I first got the box installed. You're right about the dirty gauze at least not being as pronounced. Maybe the flashrommed an update to the boxes. I actually think SD is more watchable now than with the 2 box system before. But barely.

I think the percieved improvement in SD quality is imagined, not real. The software/firmware versions on my box are still the same as when it was installed in early Janary - SW 21.03-1226-44, FW 7.07.

Joe Walko

Insight is coming tomorrow afternoon to install my new DVR box... and I assume take away my 2 current boxes. The main reason for the upgrade was so that I could record HD programs, I didn't mind (too much) having 2 boxes.

After reading these comments on the SD quality is it really worth it? Has anyone had the 6208 installed, then sent it back for the 2 boxes after testing?

I dont want to give up the quality of 300 channels so I can record 8 HDTV channels (I already have a ReplayTV for SD)..

If it looks too bad, I may ask how much it would be for me to keep my SD box, and use the 6208 for HD.

Glad I still have my MyHD card. I'm going to have to hook it up and go back to the swapping of cables in the back of the TV to do some comparative analysis.

Originally posted by billmill
I dont want to give up the quality of 300 channels so I can record 8 HDTV channels (I already have a ReplayTV for SD)..



Only the analog channels (under 99) are "grainy" with the 6208, though keep in mind some of these now have HD equivelants. I don't think the SD digital channels are any worse, in fact I think they might be a tad bit better.

My viewing habits have really changed since getting the Motoroloa 6208 HD DVR from Insight. I'm watching much less "live" TV. I love zooming past the commercials.

If I haven't pre-recorded something, I will often wait 15 minutes or so after a live program has started and then start watching it from the beginning so I can fast forward through the commercials.

The limitation of the 6208's 1 tuner and paltry 80 GB hard drive we're slowing me down so I had Insight install a 2nd one. Both are connected to my only HDTV so now I can watch a live HD program while recording another and also have 160 GB total storage space - worth the extra $12.95 a month to me. Cheaper than paying $1000 for a Directv HD Tivo (supposedly available next month) and no mandatory 1 year contract.

Rick,

Are the two boxes able to talk to each other (ethernet or firewire?)

I just saw where dish will have a 350GB HD PVR this spring. Now THAT is capacity.

Anyone heard of any hacks for the 6208 to install a larger hard drive? Or are there any firewire drives that will work?

Lastly, I thought there was an HD PPV channel on Insight, but no such luck finding it. Was I mistaken?

Originally posted by Briands
Rick, Are the two boxes able to talk to each other (ethernet or firewire?)
I don't know if this is possible. I use them independantly.

Did anyone catch the 'World's Greatest Fireworks' on DiscoveryHD? They had a pretty good segment on Thunder over Louisville. :)

I just got a Viewsonic VP191s 19" LCD monitor, in part because of the advertised HDTV (720p) compatibility. Turns out it only works through the DVI-D input. I still have the DTC5100, so I'm outta luck for the moment. So now I'm very interested in upgrading to the 6208. Does anyone know for sure if the DVI output on the 6208 is "DVI-D"?? Or does it even matter as long as it's DVI? I don't really understand all of the technical aspects of this. Also, is there a "spec sheet" out there showing what is enabled on the 6208?

Thanks!!

OK. Had the 6208 for over a week now and Im having a problem with recordings. It seems that the clock is not set with the network feeds so I end up missing the beginning or end of programs. Anyone else experience this? I would think with the bumper comercials that there would be a pretty big window to work in, but everything I've recorded thus far seems to miss one end or the other. On my VCR (remeber those) I used to start recordings a couple minutes before the hour and end a couple minutes after, bu I don't see how to do that here.

Any suggestions?

Once you've set up a recording, you can go under recording options and specificy how many minutes "early" or "late" to record. I record a lot of HBO, and their shows often run over a couple of minutes, so I usually set the records to go 5 minutes past the scheduled end of the show.

In the case of a live sporting event, I'll record the game and the next show after it to be sure I won't miss the end of the game.

OK. I guess I was hoping the system would be more intelligent than that.

You know, I've been meaning to post this for a while, but the problems with the 6208 have finally pushed me over the edge. :)

I really like the two box setup.

My current configuration is attached. As you can see, this allows me three separate, simultaneous feeds to my TV. What this means is that I can record one thing on TiVo, then switch to either the analog (straight from the wall) input for SD programming, or to the HD box for live viewing. If I get really crazy, I can record one thing on TiVo, then wach SD *and* HD content live using PIP. :)

The other cool thing about this setup is that the HD box doesn't require that you hit [Enter] on the remote when changing the channels via direct number input, while the Gateway box does. This means that when I change the channel on the HD box by entering the number in directly, it doesn't change the channel on the Gateway box, which TiVo is controlling via IR blaster, so it doesn't screw up my recording.

If the signal quality issues work themselves out on the 6208, I might consider toying with this unit (recording HD = very cool), but I would really hate to lose the ability to record one show while watching other HD content live...


Anybody else out there have this same setup? I figure most of you think I'm goofy. :D

Raiden256,

I have exactly the same setup and couldn't agree with you more. After seeing the quality of the picture and the guide on the 6208 at a friends house, I prefer to stick with my my current setup... I'm thankful that Insight was one of the first to distribute the HD PVR and I would love to be able to record HD but...

I'll be willing to switch once the quality issues are fixed and the new Motorola box I've read about with two tuners is available. Even then it will be difficult to give up my Tivo...

Anyone else seeing a channel 770 on the HD side of things?

There's nothing there but is it a sign of InHD or something else to come, maybe?

I'm seeing that channel too! I hope its another HD channel:) .

Insight 770 is showing an "All Star 2004" basketball game in HD. Is this channel TNT?

MichaelZ - I have the same problem with my 6208's.

I just read in the AVS HDTV programming forum here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=351479&perpage=20&pagenumber=1) that this is being shown on the special events channel 84 on DirecTV ... so I'm thinking what we're seening on 770 may not be a new Insight HD channel but just a temporary special event as well.

I was hoping for INHD.

I hope this TNT-HD channel stays on after the game!

Where is the Dayton 500 feed??? I know the race is not scheduled until 12:30, but I'd bet they are using all of the HD equipment for pre-race too.

Wave better not mess this up...

This is the kind of thing that could REALLY increase the saturation if HD!

BTW, I've called the newsroom (561-4150) and they said they would ask about it...

WAVE did a good job with SHREK last PM. Some minor pixels but no gaffs going from SD to HD after comercials. Audio sync was bad afterward but I didn't watch further to see if it straightened out.

On vacation for a week and now see TNT-HD test pattern. Hope you guys are right about a new channel.

I guess Insight 770 was just for the NBA all star programming - 770 is not accessable now. :(

I don't see it all the time. Sometimes when I start a recorded program it stutters. It seems like it often goes away if I pause for a minute - which leads me to believe that it may be a buffering issue.

Both of the 6208's I have do this sometimes but not every time. I was kinda waiting to hear from others who have this model to see if it's a widespread issue or did I get unlucky and get 2 bad 6208's.

There are a couple of threads in the HDTV recorders forum that are discussing 6208's here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=327653&perpage=20&pagenumber=1) and here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=360043&highlight=comcast). I haven't been following them closely so I'm not sure if this has been brought up.

Let us know what Insight has to say.

thanks .................. Rick

I have noticed that the unit is sometimes VERY slow to respond to remote input near the begining of playback. Like several seconds to accept the FF comand then it will jump up to FF4 (because I pressed it trying to get a respons). It seems to work OK as long as I just let it play.