Originally posted by William Smith
Please check KET4 for me and let me know which transmitters you can see..

Thanks
William

If you mean 15.4 I have an orchestra showing in HD.

Correct, Thanks..

Originally posted by William Smith
Please check KET4 for me and let me know which transmitters you can see..

Thanks
William

Looked good from WKLE too ... (not enough help from Thor tonight for WKMJ)

HDC

Originally posted by sMoRTy71
What does the calibration cost? I've also been kicking the idea around.

Ran me about $600-700 a couple years ago. But, Chuck had to do the red-push fix on my Mits and it also covers his travel expenses.

Originally posted by NightowlKY
Ran me about $600-700 a couple years ago. But, Chuck had to do the red-push fix on my Mits and it also covers his travel expenses.

Its still the same. According to Lion A/V (Greeg Loewen and gang) for a rear projection TV...

ISF Cal: $400 (one scan rate)
Additional scan rate (say 1080i) $150
Duvetyne (helps get blacker blacks) $150 (includes material and labor)
Travel Fee $50.00

So...$700 bucks...but its worth it.

Mark

We came through the big storm unscathed. We never lost power for more than a few seconds (we live between St Matthews and Crescent Hill). I guess someone was smiling down on us.

I have been wondering about InHD from Insight. Anyone heard any rumors or is it time to e-mail Karen Stokes again?

well I had a tree fall on my house barely missing my outdoor antenna. My roof will have to be repaired and a couple of sections of privacy fence replaced(I've already fixed (1) section).

Have'nt heard anything about INHD either. I know one thing BravoHD is a waste!

Can anyone confirm that Insight has turned "no record flag" ON for some of the HD channels?

I tried to record via CAPVHS via Firewire to my XP HTPC just now and could not get any recordings from Showtime, HBO, HDNet or Discovery. However I could record and dump down to the HTPC from the networks, and BravoHD.

Can someone else with Insight HD check this out! I hope that it isn't true...but I knew it would come sooner or later!

Thanks,
-Alex-

Thanks for checking that out MichaelZ. I was hoping that it was something amiss in my rig!

Well at least I got a few good movies dumped to my drives. Guess its time to start waiting for BlueRay or whatever HD DVD format comes out.

-Alex-

Originally posted by MichaelZ
Looks like its back to satellite, now the question, which one?? What a couple of weeks, first my power out, then my TiVo dies and now this :rolleyes:
Won't you have the same problems with the satellite companies sending a "no record flag" on the premium content? Does anyone know if the satellite providers do the same thing?

Man, not being able to record HDNET really su@ks. Guess it's back to DirectV for me. Good thing I left the dish on the roof, and keep the HD receiver.

Does anyone know if HDNET was 5C'ed at Mark Cubans request or did Insight make that decision?? Who's the best person at Insight to complain to.

Maybe its time to give VOOM a shot...anyone know the status on their PVR?
-Alex-

I received the following from Mark Cuban.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mark cuban [mailto:mark.cuban@dallasmavs.com]
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 10:49 AM
To: Nelson, John; mark@hd.net
Subject: RE: HDNET 5C Copy Protection

We don’t enable any copy protection at all. However, it is up to the cable provider to make the decision on what they want on their systems. We cant control it one way or the other

m
Looks like it's Insight's doing. I just sent an e-mail to Insight expressing my concerns, and letting them know my $116/month will be going somewhere else, unless they reconsider there decision. If you care about your ability to record, I would encourage everyone to contact Insight and let them know what you think (politely).

Originally posted by MichaelZ
Anyone get the local SD channels on D*? I was wondering how the quality is, better/worse than cable or the same?

Can't speak specifically about the Louisville market, but the Lexington D* locals are better on some stations and slightly worse on others (it is obvious D* is capturing WDKY and WKYT analogs using good old fashioned antenna tech.) WKYT even has the same ghosts that I get from my attic antenna. There is sometimes a "breathing" problem with the black levels.

I wouldn't care so much about the 5c if they would give me a cheap and realistic way to expand capacity on the 6208 HD (like through the addition of chained external hard drives). Certainly this can't be hard to do! Also I also wish the insight would switch to a decent 2 stream HD unit like the Moxi or even the 6204 with the Pioneer or Microsoft interface...

Who is the contact @ Insight to send our issues to and what is their email?

MichaelZ...isn't BEV a strictly canadian provider (please correct me if I have this wrong)?

Thanks,
-Alex-

Originally posted by MichaelZ
I looked at the D* locals at a large retailer (who shall go nameless) and the picture was not to bad but seemed to have a few artifacts and then noticed every channel, local and national, being displayed had some artifacts and I do not know if it was the TV or STB but something did not seem right.

I would say that the digital artifacts on the SD LiL are on par with the normal range of artifacts on the national channels. The analog "artifacts" (ghosts, pulsing brightness, etc) are more distracting to me than the digital artifacts ... YMMV.

I have D* with locals. The PQ looks much better than what I ever had with Insight. There is a little artifacting, but I don't experience near as much ghosting as I did with Insight. In addition, having a Tivo receiver blows away anything that Insight has put forth.

I use a Hughes HDVR2 Tivo and a Hughes HTL-HD, and I love the combination.

Perhaps these two threads will give you some additional feedback in the choice between cable and sat and the choice between D and VOOM.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=424331

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=425270

Voom CSR (I know it may be bogus) told me that their PVR was due to be out in Aug or Sept.

Good luck in making a decision.

According to this (http://louisvillehdtv.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=44) post on Louisvillehdtv.com WHAS is now muticasting a 480i news feed on subchannel 11-2

IMO this is not good news for HD lovers. I've sent emails to the general manager (bob.klingle@whas11.com) and engineering (bill.brown@whas11.com)

MichaelZ, I thought that a DVHS player was a compliant piece of hardware and therefore allowed to copy a copy protected (5c) program! I agree; Insight sucks!

Looks like I may jump to Voom. Does anyone have a compelling reason why I shouldn't get Voom? Yes, I will miss the DVR (even the clunky Moto 6208/TV Guide one Insight uses), but I can survive a couple of months until the Voom solution arrives. Anyone else jumping to Voom?

-Alex-

Originally posted by bairda
MichaelZ, I thought that a DVHS player was a compliant piece of hardware and therefore allowed to copy a copy protected (5c) program! I agree; Insight sucks!

I would think that the "copy-never" flag would be completely un-called for on even premium (HBO, Sho) services, however, your non-complient PC woes are another issue. I would dump Insight if a true 5c "copy-never" flag were indeed being applied.

I received a response from Insight re, not being able to record HDNET. It said:

"We have passed along your message to our Louisville Marketing team for review and consideration."

Doesn't sound promising. Anyone know who in Metro Gov, deals with the cable franchise?

Originally posted by bairda
Does anyone have a compelling reason why I shouldn't get Voom?
Only two I can think of:
1. Up front costs are relatively significant. $700 - $1,000, I believe.
2. Voom is a new service. I am not sure if there is a major entity behind Voom to $upport them and to what degree. If they don't make it, for whatever reason, your up front investment would be lost, and the equipment would not be usable with another service. I could be wrong on this, but I think this is the case.

I'd like to see alot more discussion about this.

There is currently no upfront cost to get VOOM if you lease the equipment for ~$10/month. There is also no contract. Installation includes an OTA antenna for local digital stations.

VOOM currently has 35 HD channels. Even if you don't count their 21 "exclusive" HD channels they have more HD than anyone else. There may be some "deal breaker" channels currently missing from VOOM that may be important to you such as HGTV, Sci-fi, HDNET, InHD ... but some of those are expected to be added "soon" or later this fall when they move from MPEG-2 to MPEG-4 or WM-9 encoding.

VOOM is a new company... but it is a growing company. I've had it since December 2003. I see improvements all the time. New software is being pushed to the STB's this week that will add many anticipated benefits and fixes.

With no upfront cost (if you lease) and no committment, this really is a no risk venture. Try it, if you like it .. keep it. If you don't ... cancel.

If you are contemplating VOOM you should spend some time at http://www.satelliteguys.us/ .. that is where is the biggest, most active VOOM forum is on the net.

Rick,
Thanks for the info. That sounds pretty good actually.
What do you do for locals and the other non-HD sets in your house?

I live in New Albany, just a few miles from where most of the digital OTA towers are located (on "The Knobs"). I have an attic antenna that I had before my VOOM was installed. I didn't have the antenna VOOM provides installed, I had them just connect to my existing antenna. I'm sure because of my location, I have no problem receiving digital locals OTA.

I also have Insight cable... for 3 reasons:
1) it's the only way I have right now to time shift / record HD programs using the Motorola 6208.
VOOM is developing a DVR - due out this fall.
2) HDNet is one of my favorite stations, which is not currently on VOOM.
3) I have basic cable running to my other SD sets in the house - so no extra charge for that.

VOOM is only connected to my HDTV. Because I have access to so many HD choices, I rarely watch any SD anymore.

anybody email Karen Stokes yet to find out what the F is going on?

Originally posted by HDTVChallenged
I would think that the "copy-never" flag would be completely un-called for on even premium (HBO, Sho) services, however, your non-complient PC woes are another issue. I would dump Insight if a true 5c "copy-never" flag were indeed being applied.


I been reading the posts regarding the flags and am a little confused. The way I am reading it is either some people are under the impression the flags are set incorrectly to copy-never on premium content such as HBO/SHO, which should be set as copy once or their equipment is non-compliant???? HBO/SHO should be set as Copy Once.....

I did send this string of posts to my SVP and the Senior Engineering Staff in NY to get clarification and will get back with uall today hopefully.We do have specific instructions from each programmer as to how each channel we carry is to be treated in regards to the flag setting. From my understanding, this would apply to all carriers of the channels capable of recording via the Firewire Port, D,Voom or whoever else.

If you have any other questions about this, feel free to drop them in and I will try and get the answers. Also for you folks in Louisville, it appears you need a good inside Technical Contact to talk to at times. I'm going to be talking to my counterpart in Louisville who is really covered up right now, and let him know about this thread. My SVP is wanting the link to it now, since it provides such valuable feedback.

Thanks,
Winston Boggs
Technical Manager
Insight Lexington
boggs.w@insight-com.com
859-514-2418

Originally posted by bitblaze
I been reading the posts regarding the flags and am a little confused.


That makes two of us


The way I am reading it is either some people are under the impression the flags are set incorrectly to copy-never on premium content such as HBO/SHO, which should be set as copy once or their equipment is non-compliant???? HBO/SHO should be set as Copy Once.....

The question I have is if "copy once" combined with using the Insight HD-DVR means that you can't dump a (recorded) program from the DVR to a compliant 5c device (DVHS.)

Thanks Winston! It is great to have a person inside Insight looking at these problems and showing interest and concern! I hope that we can get a regular dialog going with Insight and address some of the questions we questions and issues raised! I look forward to seeing progress.

I think the issues with the 5c flag relate mainly to two areas (please everyone correct me if I am wrong):

- Incorrect implementation of the flag on channels such as HDNet and HDNet Movies where we know from the content owner (Mark Cuban), that he does NOT require any implementation of the copy once flag from the service provider. Thus we should be able to record via firewire this content to a storage device (and one that is not necessarily 5c compliant).

-Incorrect implementation of the flag on other HD sources such as HBO and Showtime where even 5c compliant devices (such as DVHS recorders) cannot store content.

Personally, my issue with Insight HD right now are three fold:

- Inability to expand storage on the 6208 for HD content. The small 80gb HD on this unit and the paltry 12 hour HD storage limit is just too limiting for even a weeks worth of potential content. That is why I was using the firewire to PC option to offload content for viewing. Even this solution is very laborious as it requires a very involved and lengthy process of setting up the cable box and the PC to talk to each other, tinkering with some esoteric settings and then transferring content in real time. A simple solution of expanding the DVR storage capacity is really necessary. This could be additional external firewire drives or via an interface into a local storage device such as a PC. And 5c isn't really the issue with me. Protect the heck out of it, but at least give me a solution that can let store a copy so I can see it!

- The 6208 box and its TVGuide interface are not a long term solution for HD that I want to stay with. Besides the obvious User Interface issues (the UI on this box is one of the LEAST intuitive and ugly I have seen) the already mentioned absence of storage, there is also the inability to watch one HD broadcast while recording another (this is really a key feature of any time shifiting PVR), the inability to search for content intuitively and to intelligently record content (getting beyond the very basic, "record this content every week at such and such a time" which the 6208 implements) issues. Finally the fact that every time I turn the box on it has ADS all over the place really makes me wonder why in the heck I am spending $90 some odd dollars each month for Insight!

There are much better interfaces for the Motorola boxes (Microsofts new UI, Pioneer's UI) as well as alternatives to the equipment (like the new Moxi units that let the user stream HD content to other sets in the house!)

-Content....this makes or breaks all the other issues. Insight is charging a premium for a very limited amount of HD content right now and we have heard nothing about new HD channels, just vague promises of "more soon". InHD, Cinemax, Starz, Encore, TNT, FoxSports HD need to be added to the HD tier and Insight needs to be agressive about adding any other new HD content as it becomes available.

I am really at a crossroads now on which HD provider I will go to or stay with. I hope that Insight can step up to the plate and address some of these issues and consider some improvements.

Thanks,
-Alex-

Welcome Winston. It is indeed a pleasure to see an Insight representative participating in this thread.

I don't think I could state my concerns any better than Alex stated them above. Great job. The only other thing I might add is the 6208's analog picture is not as good as what we used to get with the 5100. I'd love to know if this is being addressed or is it something that we are going to live with for the forseeable future?

My email to WHAS on 7/26/04: I was very disappointed to hear that WHAS 11 is starting to multicast a 480i news feed on the digital channel 11-2. This bandwidth stealer will only further degrade the quality of the 11-1 HD feed especially since you're transmitting that in 1080i for some strange reason. The ABC network HD feed is 720p.

Quantity is NOT better than quality. I want to see HD in it's full bandwidth
glory. This is really a step backwards.

Reply today: The addition of 11.2 is using less than 19% of the available bandwidth while providing an additional channel to our digital viewers.

Our Corporate standard is 1080i.

I would be interested in knowing if you have noticed any real loss in the quality of 11.1 during ABC HD Programming.

Bill Brown, Asst. DOE
WHAS-TV

Comments?

My comment would be ... What would you do if your boss said he was going to reduce your income by ONLY 19%?

The best part is that is for NEWS... something most of us probably get off of the web anyway...

Thanks Bairda and Scott,

Even though I am not part of the Louisville market, I do pay close attention to what is going on, because it only is a matter of time before it does affect the Lexinton market. I have spoken to my counterpart " Mickey Beard" a couple of times over the last couple of days and did send him this link and he is very aware of the concerns expressed here. It is pretty clear, all premium channels are set for copy once........for 5C Compliant Devices. We do have a call tomorrow morning to clear up an issue with a couple of channels that we were instructed to flag, that the owner has emailed individuals he never would flag programming.......wonder who that is...

While the other issues mentioned above in the posts are being looked at by Insight and yes, we are the same Company, I would like for Mickey and his staff to have the opportunity to interract with u'all and udate you on our plans, cause, from what I do know. If you do go to dish now for HD Content in the short term, you will wish you would have hung around, with Insight......


Thanks,
Winston

Thanks again Winston! I look forward to seeing the input of the Insight team on these issues and to get an idea of what we may see in store for the near future.

On a similar note there is a great thread going on over in the HDTV recorder forum on 5c for HDNet. It really gives some insight (pun intended) into the complex relationship that has been setup between the firewire output and input devices with 5c content. Here is a quote from that thread that explains the 5c chain and its confusing problems:

Originally posted by michaeltscott
Content Embedded CCI (Copy Control Information) and EMI (Encryption Mode Indicator, another type of CCI) are different fields with analogous values: Copy Freely, Copy One Generation, Copy No More and Copy Never. Embedded CCI is a field embedded in the content (MPEG-2 TS); since there can be multiple programs in a single transport stream, each can have a different CCI value. The entire stream has a single EMI value, which is a field in some of its 1394 packet headers. Equipment can read this without dealing with the content format (MPEG) to find out what the protection mode of the content is. If there are multiple programs in a stream with different CCI values, EMI is supposed to be set by the source to correspond to the most restrictive of them.

EPN (Encryption Plus Non-Assertion) is a single-bit DTCP field which pertains only to Copy Freely content--its state is ignored for all other protection modes. When asserted, it says that the content, though marked Copy Freely, must be encrypted on the wire, and, if recorded, stored in encrypted form and played back as EPN-Asserted Copy Freely. Encrypting the content means that, even though there's no restriction on how many times it can be copied, only authorized DTCP devices can copy it at all, because only some such device could authenticate itself with the content source in order to receive the decryption key. So it's "Copy Freely, but only by 1394/DTCP devices."

The problem comes in when the embedded CCI of a recorded stream is "Copy Freely", EPN is asserted and the EMI field is "N/A" (Copy Freely). EPN-Asserted says that the stream must be encrypted, but the EMI field indicates that it isn't. This is an illegal conflict and the JVC 40K isn't happy with it. (Any value of EMI other than Copy Freely will do).

It may be that some source devices don't recognize that a stream containing only Copy Freely content, with one or more of them having EPN-asserted, has to have its EMI set to something other than Copy Freely.

Whoo! Why in the heck is this stuff so complex, even at this 50,000 foot overview! Just seems overkill to protect content like this. It penalizes both the provider (who has to implement this mess) and the user who pays both for the content and delivery and yet still has to spend a fortune on new equipment, set aside time to learn how to make all the equipment work together, and then end up with no ability to implement the features of all the wonderful technolgy. Very frustrating!
-Alex-

I was able to get my hands on a Marantz MV8300 D-VHS from one of our local television dealers to play with. (Barney Millers) I have had no problem recording any of the premium content that is set for copy once, and when I did try and record PPV, it did correctly restrict it. I'm going to continue to play with it over the weekend. Also, I did find a post by a gentleman that has some good information on the Motorola 6200 Series STB's and what they have on the drawing board.....Winston

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4132276#post4132276

Thanks for the info Winston. Keep it up. Hopefully, your Louisville counterpart will join the discussion soon. I couldn't find any info on things Moto has in store for the 6208 in the link you provided. Can you give us a summary of what you know? Thanks.

The news flash of the day is that WB will be adding 5.1 audio to their HDTV broadcasts and doing Lord of the Rings FOTR this fall (with TT and ROTK to follow) in HD 5.1.

Anybody have any idea if our local WB station will be going HD 5.1 or just HD anytime in our lifetimes? I know they are low power DTV but not worth it to Insight to pick up at this point. It would be great to have them on cable and add another HD to our locals.

Any news on this?

Originally posted by PCS
The news flash of the day is that WB will be adding 5.1 audio to their HDTV broadcasts and doing Lord of the Rings FOTR this fall (with TT and ROTK to follow) in HD 5.1.

Anybody have any idea if our local WB station will be going HD 5.1 or just HD anytime in our lifetimes? I know they are low power DTV but not worth it to Insight to pick up at this point. It would be great to have them on cable and add another HD to our locals.

Any news on this?

Motion seconded!!

Heck...on that note when will 41 start giving us FOX in HD? We are getting VERY close to NFL kickoff and a couple more HD games a week would be great!
-Alex-

Taken from this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=409554) thread:

Top 10 DMAs without Splicer Installed
1. (23) Baltimore, MD
2. (24) Portland, OR
3. (30) Nashville, TN
4. (35) Greenville, SC
5. (45) Oklahoma City, OK
6. (47) Harrisburg, PA
7. (48) Providence, RI
8. (50) Louisville, KY
9. (53) Wilkes Barre, PA
10.(55) Albany, NY

Top 10 DMAs not Broadcasting in 720p
1. (24) Portland, OR
2. (30) Nashville, TN
3. (35) Greenville, SC
4. (47) Harrisburg, PA
5. (48) Providence, RI
6. (50) Louisville, KY
7. (55) Albany, NY
8. (58) Richmond, VA
9. (63) Charleston, WV
10.(64) Flint, MI

Hopefully these are a priority for Fox.

In April I sent an email to Fox41 and asked this question:Can you confirm that WDRB is planning to broadcast in HD this year?
This is the response I got from Bill Lamb (blamb@fox41.com) with Fox41 then:Rick,

At this time, that is our plan. September is our goal.

Bill Lamb
General manager
WDRB-TV I'll email him again for an update.

Rick

Thanks for the link. I sent Bill Lamb a polite email to ask about where they stand on this. Lets all send one to let him know there is an audience waiting!

I still wonder about WB and UPN. Who owns them? Are they poorly managed? What's the story?

Originally posted by PCS
I still wonder about WB and UPN. Who owns them? Are they poorly managed? What's the story?

WFTE (UPN) is owned by the same folks that own WDRB (FOX), WBKI is owned by Louisville Communications, LLC ... not sure if they are part of a larger group.

Remember that WBKI is sort of out in no-man's land (community of license is Campellsville), it's a real stretch to include them in the Louisville DMA based on OTA coverage - this is why they have a "cable-access" license for Louisville.

Originally posted by HDTVChallenged
WFTE (UPN) is owned by the same folks that own WDRB (FOX), WBKI is owned by Louisville Communications, LLC ... not sure if they are part of a larger group.

Remember that WBKI is sort of out in no-man's land (community of license is Campellsville), it's a real stretch to include them in the Louisville DMA based on OTA coverage - this is why they have a "cable-access" license for Louisville.

Anyone notice that WAVE digital is not "associated" as 3-1, I now get it as 47-1 on my RCA 50 inch DLP.

I just hope someday WDRB will increase their POWER, at least enough to light a light bulb so that I can get a digital signal out here in "no-mans land".

Mike T near Cecilia, not to far from Campbellsville

Originally posted by Rick214
Bill Lamb (blamb@fox41.com) (General Manager of) Fox41... I'll email him again for an update.
Here's the email I got from Bill Lamb tonightRick,

We're still waiting for some ordered equipment to come in, but it looks like
we'll be in HD by mid to late September. I'm glad you're looking forward to
it. So am I.

Bill

Originally posted by mtallent
"no-mans land" ... Mike T near Cecilia, not to far from Campbellsville

Don't take that comment personally ... I merely meant that the WBKI coverage area is significantly different than the normal Louisville or Lexington DMA coverage ... WBKI doesn't really fit either place and ought to be in both (at least for those of us on the border of the two)

I wonder if the WBKI location in a rural area makes them less likely to go HD due to perceived limited HD viewership, economic limitations of the stations budget, limited advertisers, etc. ?

Since they have a "cable-access" license will they automatically get HD treansmission by Insight if they broadcast it?

If WDRB and WFTE are owned by the same folks perhaps they will both eventually go HD since Fox is required/assisted in doing it. Call me a dreamer but a guy can be wishful.;)

Great news on FOX HD! Hope that the schedule holds!
-Alex-

Originally posted by PCS
... economic limitations of the stations budget, limited advertisers, etc. ?

Since they have a "cable-access" license will they automatically get HD treansmission by Insight if they broadcast it?

AFIAK, this is one of those things (along with LP and TX) that has yet to be determined by the rule-makers (FCC/Congress.)

And yes the station budget issue has been cited as one of the reasons for not going full-power etc, etc ... WBKI has a rather tortured history of barely staying the on air and has been through several owners.

Thanks HDTV. Some info is better than none.

Literally as we were building our digitals WBKI finished built the largest analog transmitter plant I know of at 360KW TPO (6 IOT tubes) using a low gain antenna to get to their 5 MW ERP. They spent a huge amount of money to get a city grade signal over Louisville including new tower, new antenna pattern, and the BIG transmitter. I bet the electric meter looks like a slot machine or gas pump...<grin>


All to turn it off in a couple of years...

14 of our analogs run a single 30KW IOT with a redundant spare. The other two run two 30 KW tubes in parallel.

Originally posted by William Smith
All to turn it off in a couple of years...


Uhg! Seems like the money would have been better spent building out the digital plant. ... Also seems like it would make more sense for WDKY to build out their new digital plant at Clay's Ferry first ... but I what do I know eh? :D

Originally posted by William Smith
Literally as we were building our digitals WBKI finished built the largest analog transmitter plant I know of at 360KW TPO (6 IOT tubes) using a low gain antenna to get to their 5 MW ERP. They spent a huge amount of money to get a city grade signal over Louisville including new tower, new antenna pattern, and the BIG transmitter. I bet the electric meter looks like a slot machine or gas pump...<grin>


All to turn it off in a couple of years...

14 of our analogs run a single 30KW IOT with a redundant spare. The other two run two 30 KW tubes in parallel.

Makes me wonder who's minding the store at WBKI?

Originally posted by PCS
Makes me wonder who's minding the store at WBKI?

Well in all fairness, there could be some strange coverage requirements in Bizzaro-FCC-World that caused WBKI to go down this path.

Originally posted by HDTVChallenged
Uhg! Seems like the money would have been better spent building out the digital plant. ... Also seems like it would make more sense for WDKY to build out their new digital plant at Clay's Ferry first ... but I what do I know eh? :D

As hard as this is to believe, WDKY has really tried to do the right thing. First they tried to find another DTV channel other than Ch 4, they wanted to avoid all of the hassles of being on the "consumer electronics" channels ( Ch 3 and Ch 4). Next they tried to get a new tall tower location off Athens-Boonesboro Road but no one has been able to build a new tower in Fayette County for years. They did try Jessamine County, and finally got a location in Madison Co. Sinclair wanted to hold off building DTV until they had a new tower site but the FCC had other ideas. As the old tower couldn't hold a large antenna, they went the low power route with the entire system at the transmitter site. They have also been trying to get an STL shot from their studio in Chevy Chase to either site. Whomever put the studio where it is never talked to an engineer first. I have been told that both stations will be up at the new site when its done.

Originally posted by William Smith
As hard as this is to believe, WDKY has really tried to do the right thing.



I'll take your word for it :) I was just think about it from a logistical standpoint. Given that they have a perfectly good working analog plant now, they could have put the new digital antenna at the top of the new tower, saving the hassle of moving it up once the analog is shut off for good. Then they could have moved the analog plant over to the new site at their leisure (or just left it where it is.) Granted this would mean temporarily maintaining two sites - and the links from the "studio." But seems like they already run two separate links to the existing site.



Sometimes I get the feeling that certain FCC regs are actually working against a timely transition to digital ;)

Your term is perfectly good analog plant is the part that is faulty.

Trust me..

The old tower couldn't hold the DTV antenna at any appreciable height.
They just got approval for the new site last spring.. so they are moving fast..

They only keep two engineers on staff and one of them just left for WTVQ.

William

Originally posted by William Smith
Your term is perfectly good analog plant is the part that is faulty.

Well, I guess it does have an annoying habit of going down whenever there's a thunderstorm within 10 miles :D

I just don't understand why the digital CP appears to still be "pending approval."

Anyway sounds like an opportunity to do some moonlighting (as if you weren't busy enough.)

I emailed Bill Lamb about receiving their signal down here around Etown and hopefully just south closer to Glendale:

We will not be broadcasting with a full strength signal for a year or so,
however, we are increasing our power slightly and raising the antenna a
couple hundred feet so our signal will travel farther. I hope it reaches
you!

Bill Lamb
General Manager


The increase and raising of the antenna is scheduled for mid-September. I don't have an exact date. Full power is not scheduled until late in 2005 (maybe).

Bill Lamb

Let's all cross our fingers and hope for some great results!

Go COLTS!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyone else having terrible signal fluctuation (constant dropouts) with WHAS DT?

Hey guys I also got an update from WDRB. Looks like the NFL, etc. will be coming our way in HD this fall!

Dear Dr. Land

Yes, WDRB will be ready to broadcast a 720p signal this fall. Yes, Insight will carry us. No absolute, flip-the-switch, firm date yet, but mid-September is our goal.

Bill Lamb
General Manager

Good luck down around Glendale.
:cool:

IS WHAS DT at full power?

Were they before the news subchannel?

Originally posted by Buckett
IS WHAS DT at full power?

Were they before the news subchannel?

Strong bounce/ducting tonight ... I was getting Cincy stations at 100%, while Lexington (local) stations were knocked down to ~50%. I'd bet you were getting interference from an out of market station.

Anyone else having terrible signal fluctuation (constant dropouts) with WHAS DT?
I didn't get constant dropouts during the game; however, I did notice more pixelation that usual. It seemed like pixelation had replaced the old blurring problem. For example, when they would show large onscreen graphics, there would be a few seconds when the image would be be pixelated.

Anybody else notice that?

I have had constant dropouts and wild signal fuctuations since the NBA Finals (Game 3, I think). I haven't received WHAS well since then. Before that it was perfect.

As the Lousiville market is in the top 100 they will have to increase power by July 1, 2005 or their protected coverage area will be reduced.

Per the FCC meeting last Wed.

I saw the massive amount of pixelazation (sp?) on MNF last night also. Fast motion (which, unfortunately a BIG part of sports) broke the picture up badly.

Is this due to the reduced bandwidth that WHAS is pumping out right now? I hope this doesn't become the norm for MNF this season...
-Alex-

Originally posted by bairda
I saw the massive amount of pixelazation (sp?) on MNF last night also. Fast motion (which, unfortunately a BIG part of sports) broke the picture up badly.

Is this due to the reduced bandwidth that WHAS is pumping out right now? I hope this doesn't become the norm for MNF this season...
-Alex-

It didn't look good last night and I'm sure we're stuck with it until the 11-2 is gone. Quality was much worse than last season.

Chris

It doesn't look like 11.2 is going away anytime soon. I've been emailing WHAS about my PQ concerns since 11.2 has been added. This is a reply I got today:

The addition of 11.2 was mandated by Corporate as a cooperative effort between ABC and their affiliates across the country.

Bill Brown, Asst DOE
WHAS-TV

I would encourage all of you to make your voice heard as well. Here's the email for Bill Brown (bill.brown@whas11.com)

Originally posted by William Smith
As the Lousiville market is in the top 100 they will have to increase power by July 1, 2005 or their protected coverage area will be reduced.

Per the FCC meeting last Wed.

I'd suspect there might be an exception to that rule for stations that are stuck above channel 52.

The excpetion is they have to cover 80 percent of their area.

Originally posted by William Smith
The excpetion is they have to cover 80 percent of their area.

Well that does kind of bite (for WHAS), especially since WHAS will almost certainly keep channel 11 after the cutoff. As I understand it, they already have the ability to turn up the power without buying a new xmitter ... could be worse.

I think ABC's news channel is slated to end the day after election day.

Looking at TitanTV's Insight Cable listings just now it looks like WAVE NBC-DT channel 762 will not be airing the special HD Olympics coverage. The way it is listed they are just mirroring what is on the SD channel. However, there is a new listing for channel 770 called "special events" - so I assume we're going to get the HD Olympics package on that channel - I hope!

WAVE listings appear the same on D*. No HD Opening Ceremonies. I hope that this is a mistake.

Prepare to flood executive inbox.

UPDATE: Titan TV listings show OTA:

8PM Slat Lake Olympics Review HD
9PM 2004 Opening Ceremonies

Just one more note on the HD NFL preseason broadcasts....

I looked at the severe falcons beating last night on ESPN and the picture, was NOT pixelated or broken up like the MNF game this week on WHAS. However, the picture did look a little soft and flat. Anyone else see the game and notice anything?

-Alex-

Originally posted by bairda
However, the picture did look a little soft and flat. Anyone else see the game and notice anything?

I, too, noticed that the ESPN HD broadcast last night didn't look as good as it did last season. There was a lot of noise in the picture. And, as you mentioned, it did look a bit flat.

I wonder if they are compressing the signal more than they used to.

BTW, on a slightly different note, did ESPN replace Mike Patrick with Pat Summerall permanently? I sure hope not. Summerall was good in his day; however, last night, he could barely read the promos from the teleprompter.

I think D* is compressing the heck out of the HD signal right now, as they are revamping everything. This is speculation based on rumors/information gathered here and from other forums.

I agree... game looked a little grainy. This has been somewhat noticeable on baseball airings too. I think that when it is dark and the cameras must zoom a considerable amount (centerfield behind pitcher and football side view cam) that the graininess ia more likely to appear. My $.02.

Not really sure of the benefit, but Insight has added a digital TV guide to channel 500 on their HDTV box. I wonder what they are holding open channel 96 for?

Originally posted by HDTVChallenged
Well that does kind of bite (for WHAS), especially since WHAS will almost certainly keep channel 11 after the cutoff. As I understand it, they already have the ability to turn up the power without buying a new xmitter ... could be worse.

WHAS has the equipment, they just have to turn it on..

Originally posted by William Smith
WHAS has the equipment, they just have to turn it on..

Well since that "other thread" went horribly wrong :eek:, I'll start fresh here:

I've checked out the what info I could find about the KET datacasting (offerings and hardware) and must admit that you've managed to peek my curiousity on the subject. I'm still skeptical that it has any advantage over a NOAA Wx radio for most regular non-emergency services folks .. nevertheless, I might actually consider such hardware *if* it were also able to display the regular TV "services" and the price were "right" (meaning on par with the other common PC HDTV cards.)

So ... the questions are:

1) Do you know what the going (or even MSRP) price of the Broadband Tech card is?

2) Will this card also display the regular TV channels - the spec page implies that it does, but there is no mention of this capability in the manual

Anyone else getting choppy PQ and audio on WAVE's Olympic coverage? I keep getting dropouts and some of the NBC commercials' audio is AWFUL!

This is via Insight HD.

Originally posted by HDTVChallenged
Well since that "other thread" went horribly wrong :eek:, I'll start fresh here:

I've checked out the what info I could find about the KET datacasting (offerings and hardware) and must admit that you've managed to peek my curiousity on the subject. I'm still skeptical that it has any advantage over a NOAA Wx radio for most regular non-emergency services folks .. nevertheless, I might actually consider such hardware *if* it were also able to display the regular TV "services" and the price were "right" (meaning on par with the other common PC HDTV cards.)

So ... the questions are:

1) Do you know what the going (or even MSRP) price of the Broadband Tech card is?

2) Will this card also display the regular TV channels - the spec page implies that it does, but there is no mention of this capability in the manual


The PCI cards are about $200 , the USB unit is about $225, The Novra unit lists at $450.


The BBTI units can display the video services with the proper driver ( we are betaing it now). Only the PCI card can display HD as the USB unit is limited to USB 1.0 transfer speeds.

Originally posted by NightowlKY
Anyone else getting choppy PQ and audio on WAVE's Olympic coverage? I keep getting dropouts and some of the NBC commercials' audio is AWFUL!

Yep .. I'm getting the same thing via the DX rig with a steady signal strength tonight. The audio on the commercials has been messed up for several days now.

Originally posted by William Smith
The PCI cards are about $200 , the USB unit is about $225, The Novra unit lists at $450.

The BBTI units can display the video services with the proper driver ( we are betaing it now). Only the PCI card can display HD as the USB unit is limited to USB 1.0 transfer speeds.

The PCI card is definately tempting. I wonder if anyone has any plans on including datacast capability into a regular STB. It seems like that would be a small step for a TiVo like device.

Thanks for the info and appologies if I ruffled any feathers. The "comment" was never meant to be taken the way it apparently was.

Originally posted by NightowlKY
Anyone else getting choppy PQ and audio on WAVE's Olympic coverage? I keep getting dropouts and some of the NBC commercials' audio is AWFUL!

This is via Insight HD.

Same thing here. I don't know if it's NBC or Insight, but the HD signal thus far in the Olympics has been downright terrible! Motion artifacts everywhere. Every time the olympic logo pans across the screen I just cringe. Don't even get me started on the audio.

As a side note, preseason monday night football on ABC looks much worse than it looked last season. Again with the motion artifacts. This is driving me crazy....

Maybe it's my signal or box? Are others having this issue? Are those with OTA reception seeing it?

Originally posted by Raiden256
As a side note, preseason Monday night football on ABC looks much worse than it looked last season. Again with the motion artifacts. This is driving me crazy....

Maybe it's my signal or box? Are others having this issue? Are those with OTA reception seeing it? WHAS-DT started multicasting an ABC news channel on the digital feed 11-2. If you read back several posts you'll see where this was talked about here. WHAS says the 11-2 feed is using "only" 19% of the available bandwidth. Since WHAS is broadcasting the ABC 720p signal as 1080i (because of "corporate" policy), this 19% takes enough bandwidth away from their 1080i 11-1 channel to cause all the artifacts we're seeing.

I've emailed them complaining and I was told they don't believe we can see the difference between full bandwidth 1080i and compressed 19% less 1080i. I don't know who they think they are fooling. Seeing how almost all who have a TV capable of watching 11-2 have an HDTV, I don't know who is going to tolerate watching this highly compressed 480i channel.

I hope they realize what a waste of bandwidth this subchannel is and how detrimental it is the the quality of the (supposed to be) HD 11-1 feed. Should we be surprised that "corporate" would choose quantity (to sell more commercials) over quality?

I suggest you contact WHAS and let your voice be heard. That's about all we can do about it now. Let them know we're not going to watch such poor quality with our high quality sets.

As WHAS and others upgrade encoders, the differences you are attributing to lower bandwidth will be much less apparent. The biggest problem is in the upconverters used to make SD material look like HD. Most of the problem that have been attributed to PBS feeds have been traced to bad upconversions. 720p can and does look quite good.

The SD multicast is only a waste to you if you don't value the content of the second service.

Not everyone is watching on super sized HD screens either...

Originally posted by William Smith
Most of the problem that have been attributed to PBS feeds have been traced to bad upconversions. 720p can and does look quite good.

True ... but 1080i video @ 17.8Mbps looks even better ... all doubts in my mind were erased last weekend whilst comparing CBS NFL preseason football on WLKY and WKYT. It's not that WKYT looked "bad," but the "full" bandwidth on WLKY made my set look brand new again.

Saddly by the time the other 95-97% of the public gets on the HDTV bandwagon, HD will have been "justified and compromised" to something a bit better than 480p DVD quality and they won't know any difference ...

Except for PBS the networks are sending down 45 Mbps signals to the station receivers. PBS is the only one doing a transmit ready 19.39 Mbps stream.

The networks are also taking advantage of the lower production costs generated from using HD instead of film. This same reason why there is so little HD on PBS. PBS does NOT produce content, the member stations do and PBS distributes it.

PS. Except for the O and O's , the bandwidth doesn't belong to the networks, it belongs to the stations BIG difference.

The locals are fishing for eyeballs and two ( or more) services give them more hooks in the water...

Originally posted by HDTVChallenged
True ... but 1080i video @ 17.8Mbps looks even better ... all doubts in my mind were erased last weekend whilst comparing CBS NFL preseason football on WLKY and WKYT. It's not that WKYT looked "bad," but the "full" bandwidth on WLKY made my set look brand new again.

Saddly by the time the other 95-97% of the public gets on the HDTV bandwagon, HD will have been "justified and compromised" to something a bit better than 480p DVD quality and they won't know any difference ...

I disagree, as more and better codecs are generated and receivers get the ability to be updated in the field ( See ATSC Candidate Standard CS/97:
Software Download Data Service) the picture quality will increase as bandwidth requirements drop.

Originally posted by William Smith
The locals are fishing for eyeballs and two ( or more) services give them more hooks in the water...

Speaking of that: I suspect that if the UPN deal on WKYT is successful, it might inspire WLEX to follow up with a Telemundo service, meaning 1080i @17.8Mbps would be effectively dead in the Lexington DMA, most likely *never* to be resurrected. ... I guess the upside to all this is that USDTV is probably a non-starter here.

PS: I think the FOX splicer system will be transmit ready too

Originally posted by William Smith
I disagree, as more and better codecs are generated and receivers get the ability to be updated in the field ( See ATSC Candidate Standard CS/97:
Software Download Data Service) the picture quality will increase as bandwidth requirements drop.

We'll see ... But I have to ask, how long did it take to "upgrade" (meaning replace) NTSC once it was established. Feel free to be optimistic, but history suggests otherwise.

I can run one SD in MPEG-2 and 1 HD in WM9 or MP4 in the same bitstream and still be legal. if the "upgraded" receiver can decode the WM9 or MP4 then to the user its transparent. This is why I don't like to push the integrated tuner concept. Remember the display doesn't care..

Originally posted by William Smith
I This is why I don't like to push the integrated tuner concept. Remember the display doesn't care..

Precisely my point, a lot of those 95-97%'ers are going to be stuck with integrated tuners that will be even less useful than the current "cable-ready" NTSC tuners ... and frankly, the last thing I want to see in the TV business is for it to succumb to the same ridiculous "upgrade/featuritis" cycle that permeates the computer world.

Again, I'm on the other side... the old ways are dead ( or dying) .. We're not in the TV business, its the content delivery business, be it via IP, DVD, DTV, DTH satellite, fiber, or any other future technology.

But unlike the transition to digital from analog, one its bits its bits period, the only limits is the transport layer...

Originally posted by William Smith
Again, I'm on the other side... the old ways are dead ( or dying) .. We're not in the TV business,

Well ... we've covered this ground over and over in the other section.

I fear that TV broadcasters may be in for a rude awakening. All most people want from their TV is to plug it in, turn it on and get their favorite program without having to work up a sweat figuring out everything. More importantly, they're not going to want to upgrade their recievers a/o TV's every year just to keep getting "free" TV. If it's just about "content delivery," I can think of several more reliable and sensible methods than OTA broadcast to do the job. If it weren't for "exclusive rights," local broadcasters would get schooled quickly on the importance of quality and reliablility. Hint: WLKY (so long as they keep their switching and audio issues under control) is now my preferred CBS source over WKYT. The 3%'ers might put up with all this, the 97%'ers won't.

And I can give you perfect 1080i color bars and surround sound 400 Hz. reference tone as well. The TV will work but without the content its meaningless to most people.

If people can home install Dish and Direct TV satellite receiver systems they can install the TV. Remember that only now it a receiver chip set available that can begin to make DTV plug and play a reality, give it another 18-24 months and the antenna will steer itself ( electronically) and the receiver will be able to auto-update itself with new software/firmware. ( via web , dial-up, or OTA download)

Originally posted by William Smith
And I can give you perfect 1080i color bars and surround sound 400 Hz. reference tone as well. The TV will work but without the content its meaningless to most people.

Bottom Line:

As much as I appreciate what you and your crews have done to make KET4-HD look as good as it does, if I were able to get the unaltered PBS-HD feed via satellite or cable, which one do you think I'd be watching? I generally check for bounce from WKMJ before I settle on KET4. ;)

Time will tell ...

I never said it was perfect but its not bad, Now I guess you would prefer I drop 1 and 2 and not give anyone the chance to view the programming we offer on them (since its not HD its not worth anything to you right?), to give a more bits to the HD broadcast.

KET is KET not PBS....

Originally posted by William Smith
Now I guess you would prefer I drop 1 and 2 and not give anyone the chance to view the programming we offer on them

Nope ... in my world, you (KET) would be able to do exactly what you want, and I would be able to choose between PBS-HD sources (and by extention to any of the broadcast networks.) Conversely to your argument, should I be limited to 3-4 hours of PBS-HD a day (or even denied access entirely) so others can watch Annenburg or KET1,2,3?

FWIW, I'm actually kind of stoked that WKYT will be providing UPN on 13.2, the irony is that I may only watch 1 hour of UPN a week and I may choose to go to WLKY for CBS-HD.

No one is stopping you ( or anyone) from getting PBS-HD all the time.

Its available via satellite ...

If you want I can PM you with what you need to get it..

Originally posted by William Smith
No one is stopping you ( or anyone) from getting PBS-HD all the time.

Its available via satellite ...

I'm aware of that :D ... But all of this discussion is gotten really wide of the point I was trying to make which was:

1) Broadcasters (not necessarily you personally) keep saying that only the "content" matters not the method of delivery or quality thereof.

2) I say that quality and method *do* matter, and this has been proven over and over again.

As a service provider, its a broadcasters job to juggle between technical quality and content.

What your saying is you don't like us making the choice..

Originally posted by William Smith
As a service provider, its a broadcasters job to juggle between technical quality and content.

What your saying is you don't like us making the choice.. You make your choice to show poor quality HDTV and I'll make my choice not to watch it.

I don't want to watch butchered HD: HDlite.

Not enough bandwidth to do both and MOST people are watching KET1 and KET2

Originally posted by William Smith
Not enough bandwidth to do both and MOST people are watching KET1 and KET2 Well if you can't or won't do HD right then why do it at all?

You are correct, there isn't enough bandwidth to multicast multiple stations AND present a descent HD picture. But if you're still going to do "HD", then please, give it the bandwidth it needs. Turn off a couple of those feeds when you have some HD to show. Then at least KET will be known for a quality product when it does do HD, and not poor quality.

Maybe MORE people would watch KET-4 if the quality was there. When we try to watch "HD" on KET now, my visitors tell me "are you sure that's HD? It sure dosn't look as good as the other HD channels"

In Louisville you can watch PBS-HD 24/7 on CH 38 (WKMJ-DT)..

If you care to look at 17 every night during prime time you would see that only KET1,KET2, and KET4 are active the rest have NO bandwidth allocations.

If we shut down KET2 Ch 68 analog and better than 80 percent of the population lose programming via cable.

If we shutdown KET1 the remaining 15 analogs drop.

So what your saying is that since you don't like it that we should not let anyone else in the state see it...

Can't please anyone here...

Originally posted by William Smith
So what your saying is that since you don't like it that we should not let anyone else in the state see it... Please ... :rolleyes: ... I didn't say that. I did not even imply that. Please stop trying to put words in my mouth.

All I'm saying is if KET cannot or will not present a quality HD product, then maybe you shouldn't even try. Why bother if the best you can do is poor quality? I can only speak for myself, but I won't be watching inferior HD when a better choice is available. Maybe that's why MOST people are not watching KET-4.

Can't please anyone here... Remember, "here" is a "High Definition" forum, not the HDlite forum ... and you're surprised that you "Can't please anyone here" because KET chooses to go with quantity (multicast) rather than quality HD?

Originally posted by Rick214
Please ... :rolleyes: ... I didn't say that. I did not even imply that. Please stop trying to put words in my mouth.

All I'm saying is if KET cannot or will not present a quality HD product, then maybe you shouldn't even try. Why bother if the best you can do is poor quality? I can only speak for myself, but I won't be watching inferior HD when a better choice is available. Maybe that's why MOST people are not watching KET-4.

Remember, "here" is a "High Definition" forum, not the HDlite forum ... and you're surprised that you "Can't please anyone here" because KET chooses to go with quantity (multicast) rather than quality HD?

So again you have Ch 38 in your market ...


Most people across the state are watching KET4 ... they can't get 38..

I have avoided bringing this up in any thread but your pushing me to explain why we are doing what we're doing..


Remember the state budget cuts?

KET is a state agency

The last Star channel satellite service will sunset in under a year.

We have been aggressively helping schools across the state install OTA antennas and DTV receivers to feed their in house cable systems for the last year. More than half are converted and watch KET's school services via DTV every day. All of the KET2 viewers outside of the Louisville area (where they can watch analog 68) are watching DTV via converters at cable headends. (More than 80% of the state). We also have some feeding other service providers.

So yes we have more people watching DTV than you think..


KET3 and KET4 support the schools as replacements for the Star Channels.

KET1 and KET2 are under 5.5 Mbps now with 3 192 kbps audio services total.

KET4 in HD mode is running 11.5-12 Mbps Video with 1 single 384 kbps audio stream

Add 256 kbps for PSIP and leave the rest to add TVCT's downstream at the transmitter sites and handle encoder spikes.


The operating costs for the DTV is the same regardless of the number of services and are about 1/3 of the satellite air time.

Originally posted by William Smith
In Louisville you can watch PBS-HD 24/7 on CH 38 (WKMJ-DT)..Originally posted by William Smith
So again you have Ch 38 in your market ... Thank you for pointing that out. I didn't realize that PBS-HD was available 24/7 on WKMJ-DT. I can get this OTA but it would be nice if it was on Insight Cable... then I could record some things with the Motorola 6208. Do you know why this is not on Insight? Originally posted by William Smith
Most people across the state . . . costs for the DTV is the same regardless of the number of services and are about 1/3 of the satellite air time. Thanks for that detailed explanation. I have no doubt that KET provides some very valuable services across the state. I can see how multicasting 480i is a very cost efficient way to accomplish these goals with limited state funding.

But what does HD have to do with KET's mission? Why even attempt HD, especially since WKMJ-DT is doing it? IMHO, poorly done HD is a disservice.

Because for a lot of people across the state we are the only outlet for PBS HD at all.

Both WKMJ and WKPC are part of KET

The KET multichannel stream is fed from Lexington to all 15 sites. At Louisville, the WKMJ/WKPC site has a separate system to feed 38. It is a lot of trouble to turn off KET4 on just 17 ( there would be only null packets in the stream) every night and make sure its back on by midnight when the schools start recording overnight feeds so its easier to leave it on.

I'm working on getting EPG data onto 38 now... but not till after the fair is over..

Originally posted by William Smith
As a service provider, its a broadcasters job to juggle between technical quality and content.

What your saying is you don't like us making the choice..

Actually I've been in my happy place wrt KET for quite some time now ... I fully understand your constraints and choices and would likely have reached the same allocation decisions if were I sitting in the "hot-seat." OTOH, I am a bit miffed that I've been denied easy access to the NBC-HD feed for the Olympics.

I was merely using the PBS-HD/Satellite vs KET4 situation an example. There's a vast difference between being "stuck" with 720p @ 9-11Mbps and being "stuck" with 480i @ 3Mbps (or analog.) The end result: both WLEX and NBC lost my eyeballs because of their refusal to bend even a little on "content rights."

I don't mind broadcasters making their choice, it's the refusal to allow free-market forces to shape those choices that I "don't like."

PS: I get the feeling that it would be cheaper and less of a hassle to pick up and move closer to WKMJ than it would to pull the PBS-HD feed down from AMC4 ... especially given the forest in my back yard ;) :D

AMC -3 ...

About $2500 for a receiver and an old Primestar dish with LNB. ( unless you can find a Integra receiver on E-bay).

Trees are just un processed firewood...

Originally posted by William Smith
AMC -3 ...

About $2500 for a receiver and an old Primestar dish with LNB. ( unless you can find a Integra receiver on E-bay).

Trees are just un processed firewood...

Ooops, must have misread the Lyngsat entry ... unfortunately some of the trees are in the neighbor's yard ... I'm doing good to keep 101-119 clear for D*. :)

Much higher look angle ( about 45 degrees)

Fascinating read about KET guys. I too share the sentiments about frustration over the diminished HD PQ.

However, as an Insight customer I can only get KET 1,2,3,4. What is this about WKMJ-DT 38 doing HD 24/7. Why is this not available on Insight HD? It seems to my uneducated (in this area) mind that this would be the place to service your HD market in the Louisville metro area. Instead we get murky HD via KET 4. Very disappointing.

Please take this as interest and wishing for WKMJ via Insight HD rather than criticism. I do understand you are operating under the constraints of our state system.

Any way to get WKMJ on Insight?:D

Its up to Insight not us... Why don't you call them?

William,

Are KET 1-4 available on Insight digital basic? If so I will ask Insight to drop KET from the HD tier ad give us the PBS HD channel in the HD tier we pay for. Is my logic accurate from your perspective?

If so I think all AVS HD Insight customers should do what you are suggesting and rise up and demand that Insight give us PBS HD that is available on the HD tier not simply a DTV feed. After all this is an HD tier!

Anyone else with Insight HD feel the same way?

Originally posted by PCS
Anyone else with Insight HD feel the same way? I do ... I've emailed Karen Stokes (stokes.k@insight-com.com) at Insight requesting that WKMJ-DT be added.

Can't please anyone here...


I'm pleased. Sure, I'd like it better if there wasn't any multicasting during HD broadcasts, but this isn't commercial television - I hold it to different standards given that in addition to HD broadcasts, there are needed services provided.

-Reagan

Originally posted by PCS
What is this about WKMJ-DT 38 doing HD 24/7. Why is this not available on Insight HD?

Yep ... been that way since March (or was it May?) It's pretty sad when folks 76mi from the tower see it and 'Villians' don't :D If there was ever a better argument for an antenna, I can't think of it. :) A silver sensor or ratshack double-bow oughta work fine.

PS: Most of the "murkyness and blockiness" on KET4 is mostly the result of less than stellar 480p->1080i upconversions at PBS - The true HD material is much improved of late.

Originally posted by PCS
William,

Are KET 1-4 available on Insight digital basic? If so I will ask Insight to drop KET from the HD tier ad give us the PBS HD channel in the HD tier we pay for. Is my logic accurate from your perspective?

If so I think all AVS HD Insight customers should do what you are suggesting and rise up and demand that Insight give us PBS HD that is available on the HD tier not simply a DTV feed. After all this is an HD tier!

Anyone else with Insight HD feel the same way?

I don't know, they are carrying 15 and 68 analogs somewhere, but 3 and 4 are only available on the HD tier.

Slightly off topic...

Titan TV is listing the NFL Network on Insight channel 125. It's not coming up on my cable box yet, but hopefully coming soon!

looked on NFL Networks website and it said that it wasn't available to the Insight in my area

Originally posted by William Smith

Trees are just un processed firewood...
Watch it buddy
(Tree hugger here)
I can make life hard for you........ :)


woo

This is also a little off-topic (and it may have been covered although I didn't find it). Did DTV moved the local channels to Sat B? I currently have reception problems with Sat B (until leaves fall off the neighbor's tree :)) and noticed my locals are gone.

Also, did they move any other programming to Sat B?

Originally posted by sMoRTy71
Did DTV moved the local channels to Sat B?

Yes ... they've been there for 2-3 weeks now.

Originally posted by Rick214
I do ... I've emailed Karen Stokes (stokes.k@insight-com.com) at Insight requesting that WKMJ-DT be added.

Boy, I bet that was a useless exercise. I find that Karen is one of the most useless people on this planet. All of her responses follow the same format.

1. Thank you for your (Technical inquiry, Programming inquiry, etc)
2. We at Insight don't give a rats a$$ about what you what. We have a monopoly on cable in your area, and we will do what we please.
3. If you need further assistance, please call customer service or stop by our office.

Switch to D*.

Originally posted by HDTVChallenged
Yes ... they've been there for 2-3 weeks now.
Thanks. The fact that I didn't notice before now makes me wonder why I am paying for locals anyway. As long as NFL Sunday Ticket didn't move to B, I'll be OK.

Originally posted by Buckett
Switch to D*.

As soon as I can verify that the R5000 is a shipping product, I'm back to D*.

I wish Mark Cuban would come thru with some alternative method of HD delivery. Then I would kiss Insight, D*, good-bye forever.

Am I correct in that I need the 3rd lnb on the dish for HD from D*??

NFL Network is now on the air on Insight channel 125 in Louisville!

"Am I correct in that I need the 3rd lnb on the dish for HD from D*??"


Yes.

Originally posted by Buckett
"Am I correct in that I need the 3rd lnb on the dish for HD from D*??"


Yes.

Yes you do need three lnb's.

Good news at last!

I just wrote to WDRB, the FOX affiliate in Louisville. I asked whether they would be able to get HD online by football season, and if not when were they shooting for. They said "We are still 'shooting' for Sept. 12th"! Now we have to hope that Insight will be ready by then.

That fits with what WDRB told me. They also believe that Insight will carry them as soon as they turn the switch. Let's hope so.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I got this email this morning from the WDRB general manager: Up until yesterday I have been told we would be broadcasting in high def by September 13. Now word comes from a distributor that some of the equipment we ordered won't be in until late October. Obviously I am upset because that is a difference of six weeks! Unfortunately, that is now the most accurate information I have. I just wanted to keep you updated.

Bill Lamb

That stinks.

Back in June I was told it would be mid-fall, so I guess that they are right back on schedule.

Yes I got the same email from WDRB too:

Up until yesterday I have consistently been told by our engineers that we would be broadcasting in high def by September 13. Now word comes from a distributor that some of the equipment we ordered won't be in until late October. Obviously I am upset because that is a difference of six weeks! Unfortunately, that is now the most accurate information I have. I just wanted to keep you updated.

Bill Lamb

SUX:mad:

At least we will get Fox in HD - The more HD the better! Less SD I will be forced to watch! Now if only all HD channels/signals here would look like HDNET or DiscoveryHD. :)

How does the local FOX HD situation affect the blackouts for NFL Sunday Ticket games? For example, if the local affiliate is showing a game in our area, NFL Sunday Ticket is supposed to black it out. Since they are going to be showing HD games on Sunday Ticket, will those games be blacked out too (even though FOX local isn't broadcasting the HD feed)?

Originally posted by sMoRTy71
How does the local FOX HD situation affect the blackouts for NFL Sunday Ticket games? For example, if the local affiliate is showing a game in our area, NFL Sunday Ticket is supposed to black it out. Since they are going to be showing HD games on Sunday Ticket, will those games be blacked out too (even though FOX local isn't broadcasting the HD feed)? Unfortunately yes ... NFL ST will be blacked out. Any NFL game shown locally will be blacked out on ST... it doesn't matter (to the NFL or the local affilliate) whether the game is in HD or not. We have to view whatever the local affiliate gives us. Until WDRB goes HD, we'll be watching SD.

This rule of course is the same for WLKY (CBS) AFC games on Sunday. But since WLKY is passing the HD network feed it's not a problem for most that these games are blacked out on NFL ST.

Argh! If I miss my Vikings in HD on the opening Sunday, I will be upset.

BTW, will FOX's signal strength improve when they make the switch to HD? At my house (near 71 and 265), I can barely get a decent FOX digital signal now.

We will be increasing our low power signal significantly, allowing us to cover the metro area very well, but we will not be at full power until sometime late next year.


This was taken out of a message that I received from Mr. Lamb in June. FWIW.

Sorry, the thread is so long I can not find answers to my questions. Please help.

I have Directv with tivo and am not going to pay $1000 for the HD Tivo. So I just want to add the local channels in HD.

1) What are the OTA local HD channels and channel number?
2) If I get a silver streaker antenna which I understand to be UHF - will it pick up all the HD channels or are some on VHF?
3) Are the local Louisville channels broadcasted in HD on Insight Cable?

Any and all suggestions welcomed, thanks!

I'm asking these uestions here because responses will be from local people - sure I could answer most of these by surfing D* online, but the answers I'll get from you guys are based on actual experience - not a brochure.

As of today(Sept. '04), what are the positives/negatives of D* over Insight?
I checked out cost of dishnetwork and after factoring in all item I have now, the cost would be about 15 bucks more a month. Largely due to the need to keep the cable modem which would jump by 10 per month if I dropped everything else. Is D* any different costwise than dishnetwork?
Is the quality better or equal?
Do you get many more HD Channels over insight?
Is the hardware better? or cheaper? (rental via insight is like 13/month for the box).
Do you have to buy the STBs?
Do you have to have a box for each set in the house to receive anything other than standard OTA signals? I like having digital cable to the main TV and regualr cable to all other TVs in the house without the need for a box.
Can you watch multiple channels on different TVs?
Those that switched from insight to D* (and vice versa): Whydid you switch?

Thanks!
CoSh

Thanks, Michael - appreciate the response.
I'm very satisfied with cable modem, which I've had for maybe 5 years and never had a single issue and get excellent speeds. The 120k up has never been an issue for me either. I've heard horror stories from other friends who have/had dsl and my experiences have been mixed. Also debate the speed issue between dsl/modem - I've found my connection is as fast if not faster than dsl. Granted, I've not spent any significant time gaming over a dsl, so only have limited experience. Only equalizer is that dsl is steady ~1.44 & cable is bursty with caps at around 3 but averaging above 1.44 easily - according to speed tests I've used to compare with. That, and this house does not have a land line (they are in the ground, but literally disconnected from the house - I use cell phones 100% of the time anyway, so never bothered to call Bell south for a service call). So, Ill definately keep cable modem - 45/month (55 without other insight pkgs)

So, my current content consists of most of the standard channels (2-150 or so), showtime, hbo, hd box, hdpak for ~85.00/mo(excluding cablemodem) - all on 1 TV (others just have regular cable channels). So, internet connections aside, it sounds like you are getting better service & more channels for a bit less price ($15) and the important thing is (to me anyway) more HD content.
I may look into this a bit further and see what is offered, run the numbers, etc. Who did you go thru as your provider locally, if you are in the louisville area? I think there are many local companys that do satellite around here.

CoSh

Well, briefly checked out D* online and found it apparently requires a land line for the box. I'm not about to pay 40 bucks a month to bellsouth just to get a phone line/# for the satellite service AND have telemarketers call. Sigh. When oh when will the world realize that these days, not everyone has a land line! lol - probably never.

CoSh

I only use one tv for HD at the moment and I only get the basic cable plus HD including the HD PVR. The locals CBS, ABC, NBC (soon FOX) are on Insight along with ESPN-HD, Discovery HD, Bravo, HDNET, HDNET Movies and PBD-HD. HBO and SHO are available for $10/mo. I have HBO. I am satisfied (for now) with Insight. I use them as ISP and Phone (Local & Long) My total bill for all these services is $100 - $115 depending on how much long distance phone service I use. This is less than I used to pay for these a la carte and I've added HD + PVR. I think its a good value. If they don't start offering more content as it becomes available then I'll look at other options, but for now the PQ is acceptable and the locals are available so I have no complaints.

I also use Insight as my HD provider. I get the Basic package (digital basic I guess) + HD tier + Showtime/HBO + rental on the equipment. I think my bill is about $95. However, I am not really pleased with the service and HD selection and would leave if one of the satellite services could get a PVR out the door at a reasonable price. Since we have three kids, time shifting is a MUST for my wife and me. We are addicted to the HBO/Showtime series (Dead Like me, 6 feet under, Sopranos) so a unit without the ability to record encrypted HD cable is pretty much out. But on the satellite side paying $1000 for a d*/Tivo unit is just as ridiculous! And the Insight 6208 unit is a POS. So I am kinda stuck with Insight for the time being....

Lets hope that either Insight brings more HD content out and/or a better DVR. Not holding my breath on that though.

My advice is that if you don't need an HD DVR, go with d*. They are the best out there right now (IMHO).
-Alex-

For now, I'll hang with insight at 129/mo total (cable modem makes it higher than some other posts). I'd like more HD channels and insight hopefully will continue to expand their lineup. I know there is TNT and soon FOX(local), but will insight pick em up? who knows. Their front line techs have no idea either (according to a recent call) .

I guess with me, you could sum it up by saying that I don't have any comparison to any other service/hardware/signal thats out there at this time, so I'm ok where I'm at. Unfortunately the more I read (here,etc) the more I find out what all I may be missing and the negative views toward insight products and services, the more I think "what am i missing"?

Ah well, I will keep "feeding the pig" as it were for a while yet.


Whatever happend to that guy from lexington insight and his local counterpart in louisville (who I don't believe we've heard from). Be nice to hear more from those that actually know something about the present and future at insight...

CoSh

Tonight, Wed. 9/8 I tried to watch NBC HD on WAVE DT. There is so much video breakup and audo dropout I can not watch. I watch by OTA with a Sony HD 300 and all the other stations are fine. Is anyone else seeing this? I have very good signal strength.

Originally posted by STEVENSHS
Tonight, Wed. 9/8 I tried to watch NBC HD on WAVE DT. There is so much video breakup and audo dropout I can not watch. I watch by OTA with a Sony HD 300 and all the other stations are fine. Is anyone else seeing this? I have very good signal strength.

Same here. They have been having problems on and off for a few weeks, but last night was by far the worst of it. Completely un watchable. Do the cable folks have the same problems?

Chris

Speaking of problems, anyone else having issues with ABC OTA? Ever since they launched the new sub-channel I have a hard time getting it. When I do its breaks up to the point of nearly being unwatchable. Just curious if anyone else is having problems...

Peabob,

Anytime one of us has problems I recommend emailing the station or calling them to complain. Search the thread (go back about 10-20 pages) to find the email and phone numbers for all the station managers in Louisville. Good luck.

Monday night football in HD on insight looks marginal. You'd think that showcase events like this one would be pumped out in the best format they could... There seem to be vast amounts of compression artifacts (i think). Anyone else notice this? Is this something that Insight is responsible for or is it direct from the local or national abc station?

CoSh

Originally posted by cosherer
Monday night football in HD on insight looks marginal. You'd think that showcase events like this one would be pumped out in the best format they could... There seem to be vast amounts of compression artifacts (i think). Anyone else notice this? Is this something that Insight is responsible for or is it direct from the local or national abc station?

CoSh

I'm not really seeing this. As an additional comment, I thought the Chiefs - Broncos game on ESPN last night was as good an outdoor game I've seen.

Yea, the cheifs/broncos was a great looking game-thats what HD football should look like. MNF looks good, but with the pans (fast/slow it doesn't seem to matter), I see a bit of pixelization (i assume are due to compression from the source).

Originally posted by cosherer
I see a bit of pixelization (i assume are due to compression from the source). Not surprising when WHAS-DT 11-1 is broadcasting 1080i which is upconverted from ABC's 720p and then the bandwidth for 11-1 is reduced by 19% because of the ABC news subchannel being multicasted on 11-2.

Just say NO to HDTV Lite - Give me full bandwidth or stop calling it HDTV!
Let's not allow them to do to HD what they did to SD.
Call your HD provider and complain today!

Tonight Monday Night Football definitely had macro blocking issues during fast motion on WHAS ABC. You could easily see it during the extra point attempts as the camera panned with the ball. On a large projector screen, it was very noticeable throughout the broadcast.

Because I did not see any of these problems last year, this problem is caused by the reduction in bandwidth, not the 720P>1080i conversion.

Let's hope they drop the subchannel. Calling this crap "HD lite" is much too polite.

Originally posted by cambus
Because I did not see any of these problems last year, this problem is caused by the reduction in bandwidth, not the 720P>1080i conversion.
The point I was trying to make is that 1080i needs most of the 19 MB/sec bandwidth to look good. Reducing the signal for 1080i by 19% is more detrimental than if they just passed the 720p ABC feed. 720p doesn't need as much bandwidth as 1080i so 720p + 1 small subchannel would not look as bad as 1080i with a subchannel. Of course, no subchannels would look best.

If we don't demand quality, we will get (poor quality) quantity.

............ Rick

Rick: Thanks for the clarification. I see your point!

Getting rid of the 720p to 1080i transcode would help some... better encoders help alot..

Rick et all,

Uncompressed HD is 1.5 Gbps and cannot be transmitted using ATSC standards.

So.... who should get the focus of our wrath? Locals at whas or someone higher up the food chain? And, maybe someone could post a sample letter/email to send? I'd like to make sure that I'm using specific information regarding the problems and also to request specific info on how I wish them to solve it - not simply "hey, your broadcast in HD looked like crap, please fix it".

Everyone who cares should send letters/etc. each week until we get satisfaction. The squeaky wheel gets the oil and all that.

CoSh

William:
PBS HD on KET4 (using InsightHD) looked great Sunday night. Has your configuration/equipment changed?
Thanks, Steve

Originally posted by William Smith
Getting rid of the 720p to 1080i transcode would help some... better encoders help alot..

Rick et all,

Uncompressed HD is 1.5 Gbps and cannot be transmitted using ATSC standards. OK, let's call it OVERcompressed then. Who asked for 1.5 Gbps to be transmitted? Please resist exaggerating the issue.

I believe broadcasters know how much bandwidth, or whatever it takes to give us a great HD picture - instead of the pixelated, blurry crap some broadcasters seem content to feed us and call it "High Definition".

When you've seen HD done right (HDNet and CBS/WLKY for example) it tells me that "corporate" decisions (multicasting) are depriving me of the wonderful HD experience that motivated me to invest in an HDTV.

I believe HDTV owners want quality first, quantity second.

Originally posted by cosherer
So.... who should get the focus of our wrath? Locals at whas or someone higher up the food chain? All the above And, maybe someone could post a sample letter/email to send? I'd like to make sure that I'm using specific information regarding the problems and also to request specific info on how I wish them to solve it - not simply "hey, your broadcast in HD looked like crap, please fix it". You don't need technical terms. Just tell them what you see. "I tried to watch xyz HD program but had to change the channel to your competitor because there was constant picture and sound breakups and the picture looked blurry. Why cant your HD picture be as clear and steady as your competitor?"

Everyone who cares should send letters/etc. each week until we get satisfaction. The squeaky wheel gets the oil and all that.

CoSh I agree. We'll get what we settle for. If they don't improve and their competitor does, guess which station I'll be watching?

Topic change...

My WDRB-DT OTA siganl meter is jumping all over the place, cutting in and out. All other channels look stable and strong. Anyone else noticing this?

Fox HD Update...

Got some more info from Bill Lamb at WDRB:

Our timetable has been pushed back to late October. We received word a couple
weeks ago that one of our manufacturers is having a problem delivering some
equipment on time that we ordered last spring. It seems when Fox announced
their HDTV plans, a lot of stations jumped forward at the same time we did. As
I said, it didn't make any sense to buy a bunch of HDTV equipment when Fox
hadn't even announced what format they would be adopting. Now that they have,
everyone wants in all at once.
I'm sorry for the delay. I really am.
Bill Lamb

So, its gonna be a little while longer to get Fox HD...
The real question is, how long after they go HD does insight pick them up?

CoSh

Originally posted by cambus
William:
PBS HD on KET4 (using InsightHD) looked great Sunday night. Has your configuration/equipment changed?
Thanks, Steve


Nope, we haven't changed anything here...PBS may have done something...unless Insight has switched KET4 to WKMJ-DT without telling us.

William:

I will do some comparisons between OTA 17-4 and Insight. Are you sending the entire 19.2Mbps for WKMJ-DT?

Thank you

No, its running at about 14 Mbps in 720p (3 Mbps for KET2 on the sub)

There should be a WKMJ-DT Louisville Bug in the lower right corner on 38.

Granted I'll go back to not really caring next week, but just out of curiousity, has WAVE ever made it through Leno without screwing up the HD<->SD switches for half the show? Enquiring minds would like to know ...

Inquiring minds also want to know if the UT vs. FL game had no sound for anyone else? Was it Insight, WLKY, CBS?

BTW, I have watched Leno and seen a few shows when they don't screw up the HD/SD switches. However they usually mess it up more than they get it right. I guess there are so few of us that they don't put the "A-Team" on HD quality control.

I just turned on the UT vs FL game, sound is working OK with Insight

Originally posted by PCS
Inquiring minds also want to know if the UT vs. FL game had no sound for anyone else? Was it Insight, WLKY, CBS?

Yeah it was silent via OTA for a while. It seemed to be straightened out by the second half. WKYT had sound so it looks like it was a WLKY problem.

PS: .... and what's the deal with "Crossing Jordan?" Is it only in HD when there's a full moon or what?

Thanks guys. I forgot to mention that the lack of sound issue was only in the first quarter. Also there were only color bars for the first 5 or so minutes of the game. Guess it was a WLKY issue. Thanks.

BTW, I don't watch Crossing Jordan but I have noticed on TitanTV channel guides that sometimes it shows up as HD and sometimes not. I have expected that once a show goes HD then it will be HD. I guess that's not always true. Perhaps its due to some episodes being HD and others pre-HD? Who knows.

Maybe by next seasons lineup most things will be HD and the local stations will really start to treat it with respect to make the HD broadcasts consistently excellent. Right now they are not up to the standards I expect for consistency.:(

Originally posted by PCS
Maybe by next seasons lineup most things will be HD and the local stations will really start to treat it with respect to make the HD broadcasts consistently excellent. Right now they are not up to the standards I expect for consistency.:(

I'm a bit surprised that the Louisville stations are still going through these switching issues and other "growing pains." The Lexington stations seem to have these things figured out (for the most part.)

I e-mailed Insight to see if they will be getting any of those new motorola DCT6412 boxes with the dual tuners and 120GB HD. Once again they tell me nothing. Message from Karen Stokes of course. She sounds so damn enthused. Sorry to interupt your game of solitare Mrs. Stokes..lol

"Thank you for your digital inquiry. We do not anticipate launching new
digital equipment in the near future. Rest assured, if this situation
changes, we will be sure to keep our customers posted."

I shoulda asks about more programming or something.....come on insight get with it!!!!!! Sooooooooooo Slowwwwwww. Spend some of that big money. Argh

silvermaxd

I feel your pain brother! The HD wheels turn SLOOOOOW.

Originally posted by silvermaxd
I e-mailed Insight to see if they will be getting any of those new motorola DCT6412 boxes with the dual tuners and 120GB HD. Once again they tell me nothing. Message from Karen Stokes of course. She sounds so damn enthused. Sorry to interupt your game of solitare Mrs. Stokes..lol

"Thank you for your digital inquiry. We do not anticipate launching new
digital equipment in the near future. Rest assured, if this situation
changes, we will be sure to keep our customers posted."


Has anyone ever been notified about any new service?? I would not know they offer HD if not for this forum. When they add a new HD channel, was anyone notified, when they turned on 5C copy protection and stopped everyones ability to record the HD channels, did they notify anyone. I quess the latest Oxy Moron is "Insight Communications".

John, you have summed it up nicely!

Also, remember that Insight is the BASE provider for HD. Their market is the existing cable customers who are buying new HD sets. These people are absolutely floored just to see a 480p football game, much less their regular network shows in 1080i/720p. Insight doesn't need to be an HD technology leader when just ANY HD at all will be selling well to this audience. So like it or not, the HD offerings we have now, along with the crappy Moto DVR boxes we have, will probably be around for a while. Yes, Insight will add channels like FOX and UPN when the locals finally get around to broadcasting them in HD, but I don't expect to see new premium HD offerings being added too often, at least not over the next 6 - 12 months.

Personally, I realize that if I want any of the latest HD technology, I have to go dig it up myself. And that means going back to the satellite, and it means paying $$$. I just don't think that waiting on Insight to provide new services, equipment or channels in HD is a good idea if you want the cutting edge.

Hopefully I will be pleasently suprised and Insight is getting ready to launch all kinds of new HD channels (INHD, TNT, Starz, Cinemax, etc..), great equipment (the new Moto DVR's with two tuners and the Moxi UI), and new services (HD pay per view), but my experience tells me that this isn't going to happen. But one can always hope!
-Alex-

I haven't checked it out with my OTA STB yet, but Insight cable now has FOX 41-DT on channel 761! The bug was outside the 4:3 area so I assume they are ready for HD!

I hope so too....the picture looked pretty good if it was'nt HD....anything is better than the analog.

Originally posted by JThree
I haven't checked it out with my OTA STB yet, but Insight cable now has FOX 41-DT on channel 761! The bug was outside the 4:3 area so I assume they are ready for HD!

Steady there ... I'm getting a good bounce from WDRB tonight and 49.1 is still 480i, there doesn't appear to be any additional sub-channels.

Michael,

I had the same experience with LOST! Bummer.

Back to the WDRB topic. Hey does the DT-761 on Insight with the FOX bug in the 16:9 area mean they have the "splicer" installed just not transmitting in 720p? I look forward to seeing today's NFL to see if it is in HD. Maybe we're getting close to FOX in HD!!!

Originally posted by PCS
Back to the WDRB topic. Hey does the DT-761 on Insight with the FOX bug in the 16:9 area mean they have the "splicer" installed just not transmitting in 720p? I look forward to seeing today's NFL to see if it is in HD. Maybe we're getting close to FOX in HD!!!

Well, 49.1 was still 480i last night ... But, I suppose there's always the possibility that they can get the HD signal to Insight, but not out to the DT tower yet. Darned rivers to cross and all that ...

While I'm still stuck at work I'm wondering if Insight 761 still doesn't have sound? We're getting so close to having FOX HD I can almost taste it.

Looks like HD (Maybe ED or whatever it's called)is on right now. It looks pretty good, but I'm not sure it's really HD. Anyone know if it that Fox ED or if it really is HD?

Yahooooooooooooooo

UofL 59-7 over East Carolina yesterday!
UofL in the Orange Bowl against Miami on ESPN-HD 10/14!

WDRB on today in 720p DD5.1 for Eagles/Bears game.

Schweet!

Yes the FOX PQ is a tad soft. Softer than the 720p ocf ESPN-HD IMO. But at least it is HD and not EDTV 480p.

If you are watching Insight it is cross converted to 1080i which is what most of our HDTVs do native. This may account for some of the softness.

Comparing 41-1 OTA to Insight 761, the OTA is definitely 480i and 761 doesn't look like pristine HD but it sure looks like HD. It can't be ED, WDRB doesn't have the equipment to do that. They were going from 480i straight to HD. Also I noticed the feed on 761 is several seconds behind the OTA feed. It looks like today is the day we got Fox HD!

The Fox 41 OTA signal is not in HD. Anybody heard why?

Originally posted by robjulo
The Fox 41 OTA signal is not in HD. Anybody heard why? The last we heard from WDRB General Manager Bill Lamb, he didn't think FOX HD would arrive here until the end of October. I'm sure it will be on 41-1 soon. They probably are working on one thing at a time. We need to be patient and give them a chance to do it before we worry too much. Things are looking up! :)

Originally posted by robjulo
The Fox 41 OTA signal is not in HD. Anybody heard why?

I suspect the issue is getting the digital feed from the studios/mc over the river to the tower/transmitter.

Hey folks I was searching for some HD info on the FOX network and came across this news release on WDRB. I hadn't seen this before. Check it out if interested Here's the link

http://www.wdrb.com/programming/hdtv.asp

Hope the OTA gets going soon for you antenna-only guys.

sweet, thanks for the info.

btw does anyone know what happened to "The Benefactor" last night? Something else was in it's normal time slot locally.

Are there any local establishments that offer TV calibration? I am tired of tinkering with my system, knowing that I am not getting the best results. By no means do i want to wait for a calibration tour, and then fork over half of the cost of my TV. I am looking for a reasonable solution. They don't have to be a world renowned calibrator, just someone who knows what they are doing and charges a reasonable price (sub $400).

I have a Toshiba 50H81 HDTV Monitor.

Any recommedations are appreciated.

Thanks.

Originally posted by Rick214
Comparing 41-1 OTA to Insight 761, the OTA is definitely 480i and 761 doesn't look like pristine HD but it sure looks like HD. It can't be ED, WDRB doesn't have the equipment to do that. They were going from 480i straight to HD. Also I noticed the feed on 761 is several seconds behind the OTA feed. It looks like today is the day we got Fox HD!

Well, the Motorola box does record on the fly for rewind/pause capabilities so it's a few seconds behind.

I was surprised as heck to see 761 show up the other day and now the program guide is working, too.

BTW, 2000+ posts in this thread...wow!

Originally posted by NightowlKY
Well, the Motorola box does record on the fly for rewind/pause capabilities so it's a few seconds behind. You're right, I forgot about that.

Still when I checked last night, comparing WDRB-DT OTA to Insight 761 you could see that 761 is passing HD (when an HD program is on) while the OTA feed is stretched 480i.

Does anybody know if WDRB turned up their power? I'm down here in Brandenburg and am just using a small indoor antenna (amplified) and I am now getting 41-1. Its in 4:3 with only stereo. In the past I have never had a strong signal for WDRB but now I am getting 80-82%. WFTE also now appears with a signal strength of 79 to 81%.

Also, since everyone here is familiar with Insight, is there anyone that I can contact there about getting a field survey done? Insight does the cable down here, but there is no cable in our part of the neighborhood. Driving around, I'm only about a half mile or so from the nearest pole that has cable on it.

Thanks!

Mark

Originally posted by Buckett
Are there any local establishments that offer TV calibration? I am tired of tinkering with my system, knowing that I am not getting the best results. By no means do i want to wait for a calibration tour, and then fork over half of the cost of my TV. I am looking for a reasonable solution. They don't have to be a world renowned calibrator, just someone who knows what they are doing and charges a reasonable price (sub $400).

I have a Toshiba 50H81 HDTV Monitor.

Any recommedations are appreciated.

Thanks.

Buckett,

Gregg Loewen usually passes through the area on occasion. You can e-mail him at gregg@lionav.com. He charges $400.00 for RPTV which includes greyscale adjustment, color adjustments, cleaning of optics, manual and electrostatic focus. Thats usually on your 480p scan rate. If you want him to do 1080i its an extra $150. He was in the Louisville area back in September when CEDIA was going on in Indy. If you e-mail him, he can work you in when he is travelling.

Mark

Wdam33

You may want to just call insight and express your interest. I have a property in So IN that didn't have cable service. Our street had no cable and was about 1/4 - 1/2 mile from the nearest pole. I called and expressed my interest thinking they'd probably put me off. Instead they thanked me for my interest and said that gave them the reason they needed to run the service into my area. Go figure.

Try it what can it hurt?

Is everyone else getting that horrible crackling in the audio from 41-1?

Thanks for the recommendation on Mr. Loewen. Has anyone heard of SMD Technologies? They are a local setup that supposedly does calibrations.

Yes I know of SMD Technologies. Steve knows his calibration stuff.

Receiving WDRB HD over the air this morning. SD stuff with black side bars.

Can anyone PLEASE tell me if Insight is providing any unencrypted/unscrambled QAM channels? If I buy a set top box with the ability to tune QAM, will I be able to tune anything via Insight (like, the major networks?) I am not interested in paying for something I am already getting for free (via off the air waves) but it would be much more convenient for me to just be able to pull these channels off the cable.

So, does anyone have an answer?

-A

Anyone else having 41-1 OTA dropouts? This is frustrating. Everything has been working stellar until tonight during the game. Now I have low to no signal and I'm getting all sort of dropouts.

The digital versions of channel's 3 and 32 went away. I have been watching them fine, now nothing. Is this just me or did they do something (share the same tower?)
Since I'm using Voom, the only way I have currently to receive locals is OTA.

Thanks
MIke

Sad to hear about your troubles with 41-1 OTA. WDRB via Insight has been rock solid so far. I haven't watched it too much but I have seen no lockups so far via cable. I'm not sure what causes this difference is indeed it is different. Anyone have an educated guess?

I just checked 3-1, 32-1 and 41-1 OTA on my both my VOOM and DirecTV receivers and all seem fine. I live in New Albany only 2-3 miles from the towers so if they did decrease power I wouldn't be the 1st to notice.

Originally posted by Buckett
Anyone else having 41-1 OTA dropouts? This is frustrating. Everything has been working stellar until tonight during the game. Now I have low to no signal and I'm getting all sort of dropouts.

Reception is very spotty this evening ... most likely due to the weather system moving into the area. This was the first night in quite a while that I've had any trouble from WAVE and WLKY here at the cave.

Does anyone have any more information about WLKY and 5.1 DD sound?

Thanx for info Challenged.

Originally posted by PCS
Hey folks I was searching for some HD info on the FOX network and came across this news release on WDRB. I hadn't seen this before. Check it out if interested Here's the link

http://www.wdrb.com/programming/hdtv.asp

Hope the OTA gets going soon for you antenna-only guys.

After seeing this (as well as someone mentioning possibly higher power) last night I pointed my OTA antenna toward L'ville, locked in to 41-1 and the ALCS in HD was... WOW! I can't wait to see the NLCS in HD. I hope I can continue to receive it (I'm 62 miles away in Versailles) through the Super Bowl.. unless of course our local WDKY gets their HD up and I get a VHS antenna up... Later,

Chuck

Originally posted by chuckgr
After seeing this (as well as someone mentioning possibly higher power) last night I pointed my OTA antenna toward L'ville, locked in to 41-1 ...

Probably got some reflective help from the storms last night, but keep an eye out, you never know when these things can pop up.

Baseball looked fantastic last night in HD! We are fortunate WDRB is up and running with the Fox HD Feed (now OTA and Insight) considering their lack of enthusiasm for the previous Fox 480P signal. According to the Fox schedule, WDRB will be showing the Cardinals tonight in HD.

I'm surprised Chuck was able to pick up the WDRB signal, as I'm still showing a moderate to weak signal in eastern Jeff Cty.

During Jay Leno last night, Wave forgot to flip back to the HD feed around 12:05am. I assume this is faulty equipment or a tired staffer. It did flip back to the HD feed before the musical guest at 12:31am.

Also, U. Louisville Football on *ESPN HD* Thursday 7:30 - 10:30pm
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tvlistings/espnhd/index

Originally posted by cambus
During Jay Leno last night, Wave forgot to flip back to the HD feed around 12:05am. I assume this is faulty equipment or a tired staffer. It did flip back to the HD feed before the musical guest at 12:31am. I record Leno every week night. I can't remember the last time the show was HD all the way through. It often is not in HD the latter part of the show. I think the switch guy only works until midnight. :rolleyes: I'm surprised the HD came back on at 12:31.

What channel is the Yanks/Redsox game on on D*?

FXSCN is blacked out.

Nevermind, it is 644.

St. Louis Baseball on WDRB Looks Great !

Screenshots taken from OTA WDRB Signal:
http://www.louisvillehdtv.com/foxbaseball.aspx

The Ville vs. The U

Oct.14 7:30
ESPN-HD
You don't want to miss this :D

Wave now have the capability to display their news/weather crawler on their digital channel.

Test Wave ran tonight:
http://www.louisvillehdtv.com/wave.jpg

Michael,

In case you want HD for the game, I have seen it posted that 4th street live and Cardinal Hall of Fame Cafe (Crittendon Dr) will both be doing HD on plasmas. Good luck.

OMG is this a phenominal game or WHAT????

Anyone else experiencing OTA dropouts again during the end of the baseball game last night?

This is getting a bit frustrating. Why does this happen with WDRB, but not with the other stations?

Someone mentioned the weather change as a factor, but wouldn't this affect all stations?

What a gutsy effort by the Ville against Miami. The Cards are a few breaks (dropped interception, phantom holding calls, stop the f#$%ing celebration penalties)away from a win that has much larger implications.

This team is the first Louisville team that has the real talent to compete with the top teams. They just need a little more depth in the defense and they will be unstoppable.

I feel so great and so disappointed after a GREAT college football game. :confused:

What a great game! PCS, you are right about how close it was...any one of those items you mentioned had gone differently and Louisville would have won! Just like you said, it may be a loss, but this is one loss where we won. NO ONE will ever look at Louisville quite the same way again. And with Brohm (taking nothing away from the great performance by Lefors last night) giving us a glimpse of the Heisman 2 years from now, this is truly exciting times here in the ville!. Enjoy!

Wasn't this also UofL's first Hidef football broadcast?

BTW...I had the game shown with hidef via an X1 projector that I rent out (yes...it isn't truly a hi def image, but even the 800 X 600 scaled down looked fantastic) at Bearno's (the old sunset east) on Bardstown road. A great looking game and enjoyed by all.

-Alex-

Wanted to float an idea for all the people in the Louisville area who have Front projectors...

I am getting a BenQ 8700+ to replace my NEC XG CRT projector and want to cablibrate its color and grey scale. I was wondering if anyone wants to go in on sharing a month rental on a colorfacts kit. More info here:

http://www.milori.com/milorionlinecatalog/enter.html?target=Colorfacts.html

Rental is $300, but if we divide it over several people it should be reasonable. A one month rental should be sufficient to use the unit over several projectors.

Here is more details and a review on the Colorfacts unit...

http://home.earthlink.net/~tlhuffman/ht/main/ColorFacts_CF6500.htm

Give a shout if you are interested!
Thanks,
-Alex-

Originally posted by Buckett
Someone mentioned the weather change as a factor, but wouldn't this affect all stations?

Yes it does affect all stations ... but the difference is in the power levels. For instance, WAVE-DT runs at 1000kW ERP, WDRB is at 6.7kW (ish) ERP, therefore you can expect WDRB to fade, "flutter" or get "stepped on" by distant stations much more easily than WAVE or WLKY.

Thank you again for the info. That is what I was loking for.

That is a shame. The have the NFL and World Series, but we can't see it certain minor weather conditions. Yes, I am complaining, but I am also overjoyed that we do finally have FOXHD. Thank you WDRB. Some people are high-maintenance when it comes to technology. I am one of them.

Originally posted by bairda
Wasn't this also UofL's first Hidef football broadcast?

Nope ... pretty sure they were on HDNet last year or the year before. Then again, that might have been a roundball game.

WHAS-DT - Serious problems here following the storms. Anyone else? Big dropouts and signal fluctuations, all the way down to no signal. WDRB audio keeps "refreshing" on the receiver also. Neighbor's house got hit by lightning. I hope my stuff didn't get afffected. Poor dude lost his whole set up.

Two items:

1. Yes that was the first football game in HD for the Cards. What a game it was! The Cards have been on CBS, HDNET and I think ABC in basketball over the past 2 years. There was one basketball game in HD that got pre-empted by a space shuttle re-entry tragedy. That may have been the ABC game. That was a sad day.

2. Sorry Bairda I've got an RPTV so I can't help ya with the front projector kit. Good to see you are a Ville fan and glad Bearnos showed it in EDTV. Hope this gets more folks fired up to get HDTVs.

Thanks PCS!

BTW...colorfacts will work with RPTV. Its spectrometer tool is aimed from a tripod to a screen, FP or RP. Supposedly works on all sets EXCEPT LCD. For LCD, you have to get a different piece of hardware.

Thanks,
-Alex-

I have just had Insight HD installed. I have a Toshiba 50H81 4:3 HD TV. When I had satelite HD I had grey or black bars on top and bottom to give the proper 16:9 aspect ratio. On Insight HD the hi def signal fills the entire 4:3 screen instead of a 16:9 ratio. Insight is telling me this is the way their HD looks, I do not want 4:3 HD. When I try to set up the cable box, the only result that gives 16:9 is when I set the cable box to output 480i or 480p, which is of course not HD, when I set it to 1080i, it fills the whole screen. I am unfamiliar with Insight HD, is this the best they can do?

Originally posted by bone_fide
I have just had Insight HD installed. I have a Toshiba 50H81 4:3 HD TV. When I had satelite HD I had grey or black bars on top and bottom to give the proper 16:9 aspect ratio. On Insight HD the hi def signal fills the entire 4:3 screen instead of a 16:9 ratio. Insight is telling me this is the way their HD looks, I do not want 4:3 HD. When I try to set up the cable box, the only result that gives 16:9 is when I set the cable box to output 480i or 480p, which is of course not HD, when I set it to 1080i, it fills the whole screen. I am unfamiliar with Insight HD, is this the best they can do?

I am a Direct TV user however, I have helped a number of friends with Insight. The problem I see the most is installers do no either know how to or just do not set the receiver up correctly. He is a link to the Motorola receiver and you will see hot to set it up correctly. Hope this helps.
http://broadband.motorola.com/dvr/downloads/DCT6200-08_UserGuide.pdf

i will check out the link, much thanks.

Originally posted by bone_fide
i will check out the link, much thanks.

On page 10 of the guide you can select the aspect ratio for your display as well as the 480i overide.

Fred

Still having serious problems with WDRB-DT. Signal is good and stable, but sound drops out every 15-30 secs and I get this weird horizontal macroblocking.

Anyone else having this problem? Help please! I am trying to watch the game.

Originally posted by Buckett
Still having serious problems with WDRB-DT. Signal is good and stable, but sound drops out every 15-30 secs and I get this weird horizontal macroblocking.

Anyone else having this problem? Help please! I am trying to watch the game.

Same here. Watching OTA. This is the first I have seen this from WDRB. Signal is strong so it is either a WDRB problem or FOX. This looks a lot like the problem WAVE had and it was there studio to transmitter link.

Just called WDRB news room... no help.

Just curious, for those getting FOX OTA, how far are you from the towers? Indoor or outdoor antenna? I'm about 20 miles (st matthews) with indoor SS (with amp) and only get about 25% signal, which isn't enough for a picture on my receiver.

Originally posted by peabobb
Just curious, for those getting FOX OTA, how far are you from the towers? Indoor or outdoor antenna? I'm about 20 miles (st matthews) with indoor SS (with amp) and only get about 25% signal, which isn't enough for a picture on my receiver.

I am in Springhurst also about 20 miles with an antenna in attic. Med range roof type antenna. I get constant high sig for all Locals.

I am right between Highview and Fern Creek south of 265, about 21 miles from towers. I use a CM 3021 with a CM preamp mounted outdoos on chimney with some tree obstructions. I get excellent signal on WHAS, WLKY, and WAVE, but I get have signal problems with WDRB in inclimate weather and receive about 75% signal level during normal conditions.

Hope that helps.


I will be contacting WDRB in the AM about the current problems. I would encourage you guys to do the same, as multiple contacts usually speeds up any process.

I'm seeing the same problems with WDRB - OTA late tonight. My signal strength is 53% (myHD card) which is about normal.

Earlier tonight I did not notice any issues watching Fox baseball on Insight HD.

Separate topic: I posted a sample of the macro blocking issues you see on Wave HD:
http://www.louisvillehdtv.com/macro_blocking_multicasting.aspx

Wave has repeatedly said broadcasting 15Mpbs instead of 19.2Mpbs does not degrade the picture. Buzz, wrong answer.

Originally posted by cambus
Separate topic: I posted a sample of the macro blocking issues you see on Wave HD:

Steve,
The Lexington info on your site could use some updating:

1) WKYT: Is now (apparently) using 720p for the main CBS (13.1) sub-channel to make room for UPN (13.2) "affiliate" on a 480i sub-channel. Only DD2.0 on both.

2) WDKY: Is now up and running HD via FOX splicer (and of course 720p.) New tower (more power) is going up now ...

3) WLEX: CP has finally been issued ... now waiting on antenna and full power transmitter (475kW) - estimated time to live "by July 05"

Thanks HDTV Challenged, updated

Originally posted by STEVENSHS
Same here. Watching OTA. This is the first I have seen this from WDRB. Signal is strong so it is either a WDRB problem or FOX. This looks a lot like the problem WAVE had and it was there studio to transmitter link. :

WDRB TV incurred a direct lightning strike on Monday morning. Parts are ordered and they should be back to full power very soon.