I do not have a TIVO, but I think what you are seeing is the result of comcast moving the existing HD channels around. Upgraded areas will be getting new channesl as well (on or around 11/15).To the best of my knowedge we will only be getting new channel numbers-

Can any HD comcast users verify the channel line up change? I wont be home until late tonight. I am hoping they added the four new channels here but I highly doubt it!

Hi,

We rent in Santa Cruz, and in our rental house we have been using an HDTV for about a year, plugged into a coaxial cable that I always figured was getting an OTA signal from a rooftop antenna (we pay for no tv related services, but get 4 network channels, pbs, an asian channel, and the local UHF channels).

I just went up on the roof and realized that the cable runs from our TV set direct into the grid, to a telephone pole. No junction box of any kind noticeable anywhere.

Are we getting basic channels from Comcast for free? Is this likely to be (certain to be?) a mistake, and if comcast knew they'd yank them? Or is this some kind of standard arrangement for our area?

I remember, too, that a couple of years ago at one point for a couple of weeks we were getting cable channels HBO etc., and then they stopped, but we continued to get (and still get) the basic broadcast channels I listed above, which makes it seem certain that we are getting them through a cable that leads back to a cable tv service provider. Could it be anyone other than Comcast?

After not getting any good channels from the Radio Shack HDTV antenna mentioned on this site a while back, now I'm wondering if I can offer Comcast $5.00 a month for the hardware fee to upgrade our signal to HDTV even though we don't pay for any cable services.

trevethanista,

Sounds like the previous resident of your house had cable service. When the resident called comcast to cancel, it is unlikely that comcast terminated delivery of the cable signal. Cable companies generally don't have the resources to immediately send out an employee to physically disconnect the residence from the cable system. Many times they will leave the service connected until the next resident signs up.

That being said, it is considered to be theft of service to view the cable signal on your TV without opening an account with the cable provider. If comcast somehow discovers you are viewing the signal, they could potentially take legal action. As hated as the Cable company often is, they are a business which has a right to be paid for their services.

I'm not a cable customer so I don't know whether it is possible to pay $5.00 per month to receive local HD channels. My guess would be that you would need to pay for a basic cable package in addition to the HDTV service fee.

When I moved into my house in Aptos in 95 I too had free basic cable for about 10 years!!!! One day a truck came by and turned it off. It launched my into the HDTV obsession that I now have.

The cheapest that Comcast will let you recieve encrypted HD channels is about $60 a month. They have very complicated packages/levels of service (called digital tiers) and rules. There is a term called "customer service roulette" because sometimes if you call you will get one answer, but next time you get a diffeent answer to the same question. This has happened to me when trying to figure out the cheapest that I could get all their HDTV channels. Good luck!

Until a week or two ago, I got Fox HD (KCBA?) on 35-1 on Comcast in Santa Cruz. I re-scanned the channels, and I see that a lot of them have moved, but I can't find Fox HD anywhere. Is it still available?

I know this is not strictly a local reception question, but here's a question for local DirecTV subscribers:

I really want to upgrade my 3lnb dish and HR10-250 to a 5lnb and HR20 to get the new HD MPEG4 channels. I received a call from DirecTV offering me a free upgrade. I currently get the HD locals with an OTA antenna connected to the HR10.

Has anyone here in the Monterey-Salinas-Santa Cruz area upgraded recently? Were you able to get an HR20 either through your installer or at a local retailer? I want to upgrade but I am afraid I'll get stuck with an HR21 and no OTA recording capability. I know I can probably keep the HR10-250 once I upgrade but I really want all my Sat and OTA channels on one box.

Edit: An update - the local installer (Ironwood Communciations) claims to have no more HR20s available...

Any luck finding Fox HD? I don't use QAM tuners anymore but try 28-2

I know this is not strictly a local reception question, but here's a question for local DirecTV subscribers:

I really want to upgrade my 3lnb dish and HR10-250 to a 5lnb and HR20 to get the new HD MPEG4 channels. I received a call from DirecTV offering me a free upgrade. I currently get the HD locals with an OTA antenna connected to the HR10.

Has anyone here in the Monterey-Salinas-Santa Cruz area upgraded recently? Were you able to get an HR20 either through your installer or at a local retailer? I want to upgrade but I am afraid I'll get stuck with an HR21 and no OTA recording capability. I know I can probably keep the HR10-250 once I upgrade but I really want all my Sat and OTA channels on one box.

Edit: An update - the local installer (Ironwood Communciations) claims to have no more HR20s available...


I am in a similar boat. I want to dump comcast so I just put up 15 more feet of antenna and can now get CBS HD, NBC HD, and FOX HD ota. I called Direct TV to check on the availability of the HR20. THe CSR was so confused. She had no idea what I was asking. I decided to wait a while and try again.

Good idea to try local installers. Are there other installers anyone recommends?

Please keep me posted on when the HR 20's become available.

thanks

I am in a similar boat. I want to dump comcast so I just put up 15 more feet of antenna and can now get CBS HD, NBC HD, and FOX HD ota. I called Direct TV to check on the availability of the HR20. THe CSR was so confused. She had no idea what I was asking. I decided to wait a while and try again.

Good idea to try local installers. Are there other installers anyone recommends?

Please keep me posted on when the HR 20's become available.

thanks
HR20s are quickly becoming extinct. You can't request one through DirecTV. Well, you can request it but they won't guarantee you'll get one. HR20s are pretty much being phased out in favor of HR21s. If you really want to switch to DirecTV and want OTA you should act fast since the HR20s will probably not be available much longer.

DirecTV is supposedly working on an external OTA tuner for the HR21 which plugs into the USB port. This hasn't been publicly announced and no one knows for sure when it will be available.

GBruno if you want to dump comcast you should call DirecTV again and tell them you are a comcast customer and would like to switch. Some of the DirecTV CSRs are not very knowledgeable. If you get a clueless CSR, ask for their supervisor, or call back to get another CSR.

They usually give good deals to new customers. If they offer you a free install and free HD DVR you can ask them if you can purchase an HR20 from a retailer and get a credit. HR20s are available online, or our local Costco/Circuit City/Best Buy *may* have one in stock. You're actually not purchasing the HR20, you are paying a "lease fee" for which DirecTV may give you a credit.

I called DirecTV and found out that since I own my equipment, I can't buy a leased box to replace an owned one and still be able to get a credit. So I won't be looking to buy an HR20. I'm going to continue to use my old HR10 to receive/record OTA, and use the HR21 for the DirecTV HD.

^^^^^^

Thanks Snarfshark. I will call ASAP again and see what happens.

I was one of the fortunate souls in Monterey to have line of sight access to the OTA channels 25-1 to 25-5. Some time in the past week or ten days, these channels have gone off the air.

I live on the Highway 68 corridor between Monterey and Salinas. I called a friend who lives in downtown Salinas and he too reports he is no longer able to receive these channnels with his OTA antenna.

Does anyone know what the story is?


TIA,

Dave

25.1 (KCAH) and its subchannels have been off for week! Can't find any stories or references to this major meltdown. Anybody who gets the story please post here.

I sent a message to KQED about this problem and got this reply:

>For the past several days, I have noticed that KQET 25-1 has been
>off the air. Are you aware of this problem? When will service be restored?


A custom-made part in the digital transmitter burned out on Friday.
It's been shipped back to the manufacturer for rebuild. We're hoping
the part will return and be reinstalled on Wednesday.

Red Dana
Manager, KQED/KTEH/KQET Audience Services

I sent a message to KQED about this problem and got this reply:

>For the past several days, I have noticed that KQET 25-1 has been
>off the air. Are you aware of this problem? When will service be restored?


A custom-made part in the digital transmitter burned out on Friday.
It's been shipped back to the manufacturer for rebuild. We're hoping
the part will return and be reinstalled on Wednesday.

Red Dana
Manager, KQED/KTEH/KQET Audience Services

Mystery Solved. Well Done.

Yup, just got the same reply, thanks. Man, that's the only PBS-HD we can get down here. I was worried they were shutting it down due to the merger of the all the local PBS affiliates recently. Dodged a bullet.

Announcement sent out by Red Dana, Manager, KQED/KTEH/KQET Audience Services:

Starting Monday 12/17, The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer will be produced and aired in HD! You'll be able to catch one of America's most trusted news programs Mon-Fri 3pm & 6pm, with overnight repeats Tues-Sat 1:30am & 5am. The NewsHour will also broadcast a segment offering a behind the scenes look at our transition to HD reported by Media producer Jeffrey Brown on the Friday 12/14 program.

Also, we had a part burn out at our digital transmitter for KQET, so DT25.1 through DT25.5 have been off the air since last Friday. The part is currently back at the factory being rebuilt, and we hope to have it back in place and the signal back on by Wednesday or Thursday of this week (12/12 or 12/13).

KQED's HD service is available Over The Air (OTA) 5pm-6am on KQED HD (DT9.1), KTEH HD (DT54.1), and KQET HD (25.1), and 24hrs/7days on Comcast Channel 709.

I really hope the Monterey area gets the HD locals on DirecTV soon. The SD seriously blows when viewed on an HD set.

Thanks for the 25.1 -.5 research and passing it on. Let's not to forget to support these channels to keep them interested in us rustics.

After a long series of useless email exchanges, I managed to escalate to the regional offices of Comcast. A very nice lady named "Lola" and I just spoke on the phone.

By the end of this calendar year, our crappy little DMA will be receiving properly mapped ABC-HD on Comcast - but ONLY in prime time.

According to Lola, who escalated to the main offices, this is due to ABC not allowing the broadcasting of their channel into our DMA.

I do not know if this is specifically true, and in honesty don't care. I am just pleased to be told no double-talk, no capacity issues, no specious FCC quotes, etc.

I'll keep my fingers crossed that my Series 3 Tivo will actually get a mapped version of ABC-HD by year end.

FYI

regards,

patrick

Patrick,

Thanks for the information. I appreciate your persistance. I have tried repeatedly to get info on this. I really do not want to switch to Direct, but was just about to call them. I dont need 80 HD channels-just about 4 more. ABC is #1 on my list.

I hope it shows up. I find it strange that they do not make good news known ASAP...oh well

My comcast box is now listing channel 720 as FSN. No announcment from Cmocast or shows yet but looks like we might be getting one or two channels for/around x-mas

From Red Dana, KQED, KQET Viewer Services

The damaged combiner from the KQET transmitter has not yet returned. Turns out it needed replating as well as rebuilding, and is now not expected back until after Christmas. Meanwhile, a little jury-rigging has allowed KQET-DT to operate, but at only 25% power, so some viewers may now be able to receive a less-than-perfect signal.

At long last.

patrick

Yeah comcast-two new HD channels. One of them is even showing content (ABC). What is up with FSN on 720 not showing anything?

Does this mean Monterey Comcast will also have ABC-HD soon? Puh-LEASE say "Yes!"

:confused:

Does this mean Monterey Comcast will also have ABC-HD soon? Puh-LEASE say "Yes!"

:confused:

OK. Yes. Channel 707 is "KGOHD".

:)

Pleasant surpise to findKGO 7 (707) & FSN HD (720) show up on my TiVo & comcast boxes yesterday. Not so pleasant: the 2 NBA games were in badly cropped 480i. HD programming didn't start until 8PM and was gone this morning. Only Comcast would give us a part-time HD station!

Hallelujah! Progress at last!

KGO-707 ABC HD on Comcast in our DMA. At long last.Thanks, Patrick, for your persistence. This is great news. If there are no further HD additions I will still be happy. Especially if SDV never rears its head around here. Now, if TiVO will just update the data for KGO-707...

Yup, I filed a "fix the channel map" with Tivo last week. Should be fixed shortly, or I'll refile the report. My S3 is showing the same lack of channel info. They eventually fix them but you must goad them by filing a report.

You should do it as well.

regards,
patrick

Good news indeed! I bet we will even be given one or two more HD channels in the next year. But for now I have (finally) made the decision to stick with comcast and bought a Tivo HD. My wife is very happy-she is tired of me "thinking out loud" about what to do.

FYI: If you have not done so already; Call comcast and ask about getting HBO HD for free. I have it now a year for free. In the past I have been given 2 6 month subs for free.

I was at Costco Santa Cruz today (1/3), and lo and behold there was a stack of 3 HR20-700s sitting next to the plethora HR21s. I grabbed one for my upgrade to MPEG4, so there were 2 left. A ten minute call to D*, and I'm set for a new dish on the 14th. The CSR was very surprised any HR20s were around, and applauded me on my find as she noted HD locals are non-existant in my DMA. Phew!

Drats,

I just made the decision to stick with Comcast-this was partly based on my phone calls to Direct where 3 CSR's had no idea of the (OTA) difference between the HR20 and 21. One assured me that I would even receive my locals in HD. Of course she thought Aptos was in LA.

I am looking forward to playing with my new TIVO HD coming Monday.

FYI on the SF thread someone mentioned that beginning on 1/8/8 one no longer has to schedule a tech visit for cable card installs. You can just go to the office, pick them up and install yourself. I bet I am the first one to try it in Santa Cruz.

There is no self install in our area, at least for the moment. I cannot comment on the source in SF, but as I just endured my second Series 3 (NOTE: not the HD Tivo which is the second generation Tivo capable of high def recording off the air or via cable - but rather the first generation model called the Series 3) cable card install and it went poorly. It's all good this morning after I performed Guided set up.

I make this distinction because of the tidal wave of mis-information among installers regarding "S3 Tivos" (they lump the two very different units into one category) and the specific differences in the way they handle cable cards.

IF your new unit is in fact the "HD Tivo" by model and not by generic description of the capabilities (as both models are actually HD Tivos but not by model designation - clear as mud, eh?) then your installer can use the new "M" cards.

The "M" cards are "multistream" and thus can support dual tuners. The other cards are "S" cards and represent "single stream" so you always need two cards.

Series 3 Tivo - must use two cards, either "M" or "S" variety - if "M" cards are utilized they MUST be configured as "single stream" or the install will go to crap.

HD Tivo - can use "S" cards (2 of them) or can use one of the new "M" cards.

As I just went through this hell yesterday, it is safe to say I am current. As you must call dispatch, an inside number, and use ID so the head end knows who you are, etc, our local folks are not even close to self installs as of Friday. Given the time and grief we went through as he tried, and failed miserably to use "M" cards in my Series 3 unit, I cannot see self installs.

If yours is indeed a self install, please post the results, and I wish you luck!

regards,

patrick

ps...I re-escalated the lack of Guide data for our new KGOHD 707 with Tivo on Thursday. As they can only pass this to Tribune Media (provider of the Guide data) and Comcast it remains to be seen if the mapping will happen soon.

GOOD NEWS (so far). Just went down to the santa cruz office and picked up a M-card. They even have a one page "Cable Card Installation for Tivo" guide. The first step is to differentiate between the Tivo HD and the Series 3. The CSR even knew the difference. Tonight I will put it into the box and see if I can do it.

I will say that the SD is better with the Tivo than with the moto. I hope HD and other digital looks great!!!!

Patrick, sorry that you had a (needless) hassle with them.

Hope it goes well.

Tivo just released new software allowing viewing of online Picasa web albums. Totally rocks to see them on the 58" plasma.

You will love HD on the Tivo, completely sweet user interface. Years ahead of the rest. In fact I laugh when I see DISH adds asserting "better than Tivo". HA HA HA HA HA HA. Not even close but it is a free country, so you can think whatever you want.

Just try it, though, before you judge it and don't ever let anyone else judge for you.

regards,

patrick

some minor glitches with the cable card self install. But I will admit it might have been my impatience. I was not getting all the digital channels so i called and they "hit" the box and told me to give it an hour to get all the channels. I did and so far it is great.

My only complaint so far: When changing channels is there a way to make the banner translucent to you can see through it to the channel? Or is there a way to minimize the channel and put it in the upper right hand corner like the (gasp) moto did? I wont have a chance to really play wit it until this weekend.

thanks

http://www.tivocommunity.com

Looks like KGO-HD programming info showed up on my Tivo this morning.:)

Thanks very much Patrick for your efforts!

-Crackers

There must some serious muck behind the scenes for such an (apparently) trivial issue to require six months of pestering and a year or more of missing service.

You're welcome, by the way.

regards,
patrick

Fantastic. I got the Tivo "lineup Change" message again, and went to read it, expecting to be uninterested once again. And the entry read "KGOHD", and my heart sped up a little. Patrick, allow me to also thank you for your persistence - I've nagged Comcast a bit each time I've swapped Cablecards out (which was all too often for a while), but I don't think I was following any particularly effective channels.

Now we just need the writers strike to end so that I can actually set up my two ABC season passes in HD. Luxury!

At long last.

patrick

Amen Brother.

I've literally lost sleep over this issue by trying to figure out how the hell I was going to record the HD QAM feed already present on the wire. I was sure it would be YEARS before Comcast would resolve whatever "issue" was preventing them from moving the station into the regular lineup (they never did say anything publicly did they?).

Before I got the M card installed into my Tivo HD (which took Comcast 3 weeks to do BTW :(), I was able to manually record the ABC shows I wanted from 7.1, but of course that went out the window when the card went in.

Last week the spousal unit and I actually sat and watched Greys Anatomy on live TV so we could watch in HD. Pick your poison: Commercials or crappy standard def signal. When you've been blissfully zapping ads for as long as I have (since almost day 1 on the original Tivo series 1), it's definitely painful not to be able skip them!

Anyway, I'm definitely a happy camper now!

Mark

My new Tivo HD detected a "new channel." It is now listing 720 as FOXHDWE instead of FSN. Is this a change in name only or a more significant change?

Time will tell I suppose. It is obvious, however,Comcast is feeling the heat from the satellite folks due to their significant edge in HD content. So they may be tossing us a bone until the analog channels go away - and then they can triple their HD content.

Stay tuned.

patrick

A friend told me of this site and as a techno dino I need help. Just weaned myself from the dish and want a few tips on hd antenna. Is it true that we can pick up hd with only an antenna? Which one is best for the seabright area. Are there recommended dealers for an antenna. I did the antenna web search for channels . . . do the red spectrum channels need a tall exterior antenna? Thanks for the help.

eor

We're like 3 miles or less apart. We have different locations, true, but in general we have the same line of sight.

There are too many variables to go into without knowing much more about your location.

Other than ABC HD, yes, potentially, you can receive them all. POTENTIALLY.

I sent you a PM, if you want to discuss just reply.

patrick

I've updated the Digital Channel List for the San Francisco Bay Area, Sacramento and Monterey/Salinas with more information, including power, antenna height and other transition details. At the request of many, I've also resorted the main list by PSIP channel number rather than transmitter channel.

I hope you find the new information to be useful and the new sort to be more easy to use.

You'll find the list at: http://www.choisser.com/sfonair.html

Larry
SF

Well the majority of the Bay Area has been or is being upgraded. Six new and popular HD channels have been added. I called Comcast and was told that there are NO plans to upgrade this area in the near future.

I had a Dish install on Sunday. Good deal on their HD only package if it fits your needs. They have their problems (awful CSR's so far, 2 year commitment, no locals in HD except for ota and no abc-hd possible). But at least I have a great DVR (VIP 722) and a lot of HD material to record. Any other local Dish HD subscribers??

I too am very frustrated by the lack of additions to the local Comcast lineup, very sparce and very much no information. They are easy to use, etc. but they are clearly falling way behind in terms of price/performance in our area.

It may be time to solicit the best deal from the sat folks. I know the new MPEG4 stuff on DTV is no longer plagued by being downrezzed - the issue which drove me from them initially.

But - What networks do you get in HD? Do you get the local networks in HD? Do you get ABC, PBS?

patrick

I'm dish HD subscriber for locals in HD they were schedule for some time this year, but now with the lost AMC14 it could be a very long time! For ABC I had ABC out of LA,but Dish lost all their distants networks due to legal issues.:(. Btw how is that 722 DVR? I have two 211's and looking to get a 612 DVR.

Patrick,
I just went down to Comcast Santa Cruz to drop off all their equipment-yea! The guy said that we are actually a 750 mhz area??? ( I thought we were 550). But blamed the FCC and other factors on us not having more HD. He also said that "it would be a very long time before we saw any changes to that." He is now the second CSR to say that to me.

For my local stations I have to use the OTA input on the VIP 722. I can get CBS, NBC, FOX and PBS in HD. BUT you have to pay DISH 5$ a month extra(to buy their local SD stations package) in order for them to let the program information for the OTA channels to show up in their guide (which is a must have in order to record anything off the air.) In addition to the 4 HD OTA stations I get 37 HD stations-some are even worth watching. Check out their (hard to navigate) website for specifics. I get the HD ONLY package for 29.99 a month + 5.98 DVR per month rental + $5 for local SD stations so for about $41 and tax a month I get a lot of HD. THIS IS NOT A GOOD PACKAGE FOR SPORT FANS (which I am not). I went with with it over Direct because of the low price and their dish needs one coax cable from it (Direct needs two-I have a big house with) I have been a little too busy to watch all the new HD, but from what I have seen so far the HD PQ is easily comparable to Comcast. Mileage does vary depending on the channel, etc -just like comcast. If fact in the several hours I have watched there have been far fewer drop outs, etc.


HD Dude24, The 722 is very nice so far (I have only had it for 4 days). It actually comes with two separate remotes and can run a SD TV separately (see Cnet's review for more info). 55 hours of HD recording space with external storage available. I hated the motto box form comcast. I have a TIVOHD which is more intuitive to use than the VIP 722 but not as many features that I like.

I am happy to provide more information if you want.

gb

gbruno...

Thank you for the details. I appreciate it. The lack of locals in HD is lame, and FCC should be taken out. They serve no one but the people milking us.

patrick

Wow- DISH just added four new HD channels-CNN, USA, SCI-FI and Cinemax (Cinemax is a promo for 1 peny a year for two years if you go auto pay).

Of course it is just a timing thing but I have had more HD channels added in 6 days of DISH than I did in 2 years of comcast.

When/If they add locals I doubt comcast could even compete.

Is KION-DT off the air?

As of last Fri, I am no longer receiving a measurable OTA signal for KION-DT on my DirecTV HR20-100. This has always been my strongest signal as the tower is 8 mi away and I can actually see Mt. Toro from my location.

Is anyone else having problems receiving KION-DT using an OTA antenna - is KION having any transmitter issues?

Only other thing I can think of is Friday's EQ has tweaked my antenna position (antenna is in my attic). There was a DirecTV HR20 software upgrade which I received last Thurs, but I am still able to receive all my other OTA channels.

LOST MY KION-DT TOO! It used to be very stable. Snarfshark, or anyone else, know their contact information?

thanks,

GBruno you're a Dish network subscriber, correct?

Are you using the Dish Network box to receive your KION-DT OTA signal?

If you're using the Dish box, that tends to make me think something's wrong with the KION transmitter (I'm getting no signal on KION-DT OTA, but with a DirecTV box).

Is KION-DT off the air?

As of last Fri, I am no longer receiving a measurable OTA signal for KION-DT on my DirecTV HR20-100. This has always been my strongest signal as the tower is 8 mi away and I can actually see Mt. Toro from my location.

Is anyone else having problems receiving KION-DT using an OTA antenna - is KION having any transmitter issues?

Only other thing I can think of is Friday's EQ has tweaked my antenna position (antenna is in my attic). There was a DirecTV HR20 software upgrade which I received last Thurs, but I am still able to receive all my other OTA channels.

I've lost KION-DT as well, and also got the HR20 upgrade last week.

However, I called a buddy yesterday who doesn't have the HR20, but receives his HD programming OTA using his TV Tuner. He was also getting no signal.

I went to their website and picked an email from the contact list and sent an email to find out if they're having problems. If I don't hear anything tomorrow, I'll try calling another couple of friends who may have better contact info and may even know the station engineers...

If anyone else hears anything, please let us know. KION-DT is probably the most watched channel in our house!

No 46-1 here also is anyone havng audo dopouts on 8-1, 8-2 is ok. Directv Hr-100 using OTA. Called KSBW left a message for the enginner.

GBruno you're a Dish network subscriber, correct?

Are you using the Dish Network box to receive your KION-DT OTA signal?

If you're using the Dish box, that tends to make me think something's wrong with the KION transmitter (I'm getting no signal on KION-DT OTA, but with a DirecTV box).


Yes, I am using the VIP 722. Sounds like a transmitter issue.

Can someone post the contact information for KION. Maybe if we all contact them we can get a faster resolution.

Thanks,

No 46-1 here also is anyone havng audo dopouts on 8-1, 8-2 is ok. Directv Hr-100 using OTA. Called KSBW left a message for the enginner.

No audio dropouts on 8-1. I hope it gets fixed for you soon!

Yes, I am using the VIP 722. Sounds like a transmitter issue.

Can someone post the contact information for KION. Maybe if we all contact them we can get a faster resolution.

Thanks,

I emailed a Kim Meyenberg, who is listed on the KION website as the person in charge of programming.

She sent me an email this morning staying that they're having technical difficulties with their digital channels. The parts to fix the problem are on order and supposed to arrive this morning.

Hopefully they're up and running tonight.... the Mrs. is not gonna be a happy camper if NCIS and CSI are not in HD this week!

Sharkie,
Thanks for the info...

Yes, THanks!

Dish just added 22 more HD channels. Their HD only package is a deal-as long as you can get your locals OTA in HD and ABCHD via QAM; and as long as you are not a big sports fan.

They do have a lot of niche channels that I don't watch, but at least they are staying competitive (come on comcast).

Yeah I just check it about half hour ago woohooo World Fishing Network!

Are these some/all of the former VOOM channels?

Comcast is really losing ground fast in this demographic. Really fast.

thanks

regards,

patrick

Interestingly, after adding about 22 new HD channels, Dish (unannounced) removed 5 of the voom channels. Allegedly to make room for the new channels (which had already been added). But some DBS forum members point out that Voom had been not adding new HD content so maybe this is a wake up call to them.
AND,
What type of deal do you have to cut to have Dish include the World Fishing Network? (ok so I watched about 2 minutes of it-boring)

OK so now Dish has removed all the voom channels (15 I think) without notice. Lots of uproar in the related forums. The speculation is all over the place-but personally I think they are about to add more popular HD channels-they have room. But if you are thinking about jumping to Dish you might want to see what happens in the next week or two.

Was messing around with a friend's Samsung LCD TV today with QAM tuner. No cable box, just digital cable hooked up directly to the TV cable input.

Did a channel scan, a couple of channels listed as DTV 46-1 and DTV 35-1 were found but tuning to these channels just gave a "weak or no signal" error message from the TV. Checked other channels but could'nt locate any channels which appeared to be the local digital channels.

Are any of you Monterey-area Comcast subscribers able to receive the digital local channels via Comcast without a cable box? Are these channels scrambled or in the clear?

Sorry I cant help. I gave up on using my QAM due to unreliable signals.

Did a channel scan, a couple of channels listed as DTV 46-1 and DTV 35-1 were found but tuning to these channels just gave a "weak or no signal" error message from the TV. Checked other channels but could'nt locate any channels which appeared to be the local digital channels.

Are any of you Monterey-area Comcast subscribers able to receive the digital local channels via Comcast without a cable box? Are these channels scrambled or in the clear?
----------------------------------------------
You're confusing a few things. I use a pair of Tivo Series 3 units with Comcast. I rent cable cards for them to work with the digital services. Just the presence of a QAM tuner (which the Tivos are) is not going to get you much since the head end changes the actual digital channel they use all the time.

The QAM tuner WILL allow you to receive HD digital signals off the air, and 46-1 is CBS HD off the air. 35-1 is NOT off the air, but rather the re-mapped channel from the actual HD signal which is, if I recall, UHF 13.

So, to answer your question, nothing you can reliably find is sent out on the QAM cable in the free and clear. You can get lucky and find HD signals in the random pile of a few hundred they can use, but you cannot find them easily or reliably.

If you hook an antenna to your QAM tuner you will likely see 46-1 pop into view. 35 is tough but it might work, as are 8 and 54.

regards,

patrick

QAM decoders are for cable only. Quadrature Amplitude Modulation -- in this case 16-QAM -- is subject to too many problems over the air but is fine on a piece of wire. Over the Air (OTA) transmissions are 8VSB (eight-bit vestigial sideband modulation in a 6-MHz channel). All DTV sets with an RF or antenna input should decode both signals as they automatically sense the modulation scheme. Don't rely on the signal meter of the receiver or converter box to tell you signal strength unless the word "strength" is how its labled. The boxes that just indicate "signal" often give an indication based on "bit error rate" and it is more an indication of proper antenna orientation for minimal multipath errors than of the actual strength of the signal received. Remember, with digital TV, its a go / no-go system -- either its there or its not. Right on the threshold, there is the "cliff effect" which shows up as a "blocky" picture. This is intermittent reception with signficant bits missing. The OTA signal is 19+ MB-per-second. Cable typically degrades this down to 10 MB-per-second or less. Unlike analog, OTA digital outperforms cable channels ever time because cable can only cram so much onto a wire......and they're trying for data (internet) and telephone service as well on that wire.

All of the local broadcasters multi-cast, with the result being degraded primary HD channels. None of them are providing a full 19MB/sec. So despite the theory OTA is superior by default, the locals have decided to bruise the signal to the extent that it is visibly degraded and much blockiness happens. It may well be a toss up on a given channel who is less bruised, cable or OTA. It's sad but true.

PBS multicasts, as do CBS, FOX and NBC = less bandwidth for the main HD channel.

regards,
patrick

Actually, the 19-MBs signal was designed for 1 HD and up to 2 Standard Definition (SD) programs simultaneously. It is this total signal that some cable channels beat down to 10-MBs. HD is usually transmitted at 10.7MBs with the dot-2 and dot-3 sharing about 7 MB of space. The rest is used by metadata. Standard Defintion programming is true bandwidth if the dot-2 channel gets a 6-MB assignment and only shows "blocking" during fast motion at a 4-MB allotment. If no dot-3 channel is used, there should be no artifacts at all on either the HD or SD program -- provided the broadcaster sets up his encoder properly. HOWEVER, broadcasters using 1080i seem to have a lot of problems in this area. I know of one PBS station that, after having a lot of problems multicasting, converts their 1080i signal to 720p at the transmitter and transmits both the HD signal as 720p along with 3 SD programs without problems. The encoder at the broadcaster needs to be carefully set up and not all the bugs are worked out, but HD with SD OTA is still very viable and is being successfully done.

Myron and Patrick,

Thanks for your responses.

I am aware of the difference between QAM and 8VSB. When I did the channel scan on the Samsung TV, I did the scan on the CATV input only. All the channels it found during the scan were listed as "Cable xx" or "DTV Cable xx".

The strange thing was it found a couple of channels which were labelled "DTV Cable 35-1" and "DTV Cable 46-1". These were not OTA channels as the channel scan was on the CATV input and no OTA antenna was connected to the antenna input. I could tune to these channels but there was no picture and the TV displayed a "weak or no signal" error message.

In any event, judging from Patrick's post, it appears that a Cable box is required to receive the Digital locals.

Once again thanks for everyone's help.

I’m writing to share my experience with the new DirecTV AM21 Off Air Tuner and to ask for advice about which antenna to use.

I live near Salinas HS and use the DirecTV HR21, and I just installed the AM21. I’m using rabbit ears until I can select a better antenna.

I get clear HD broadcasts from KSBW DT1 and 2, KQET DT1, 2, 3, 4, and 5.

KCBA DT is pixelated unless I touch the rabbit ears.

I can’t receive KION DT1 and 2 at all, but earlier posts suggest they are having broadcast problems. I get SD KION OK through the satellite.

I know KION transmits from Mt. Toro, and the stations I receive well are from Fremont Peak. Maybe that’s the problem. Turning or otherwise adjusting the rabbit ears doesn’t produce any signal.

Which antenna should I buy? I was considering an Antennas Direct DB2 either inside my garage or on the roof, if necessary. If it won’t receive well from both Fremont Peak (38° and 10.5 miles distant) and Mt. Toro (155° and 9.1 miles distant) I could install a second DB-2 and connect them with a Channel Master 7777 antenna preamplifier.

Does this sound like a good plan? I would appreciate any suggestions.

Steadman,
Every location is different and you will probably have to try a couple of different antennas before you find one (or 2) which will work for you.

One thing to note is that KSBW-DT and KCBA-DT are on VHF channels 10 and 13 respectively. KION-DT and KQET-DT are on UHF channels 32 and 58 respectively. So assuming you are trying to use one antenna to pick up all of these channels, what you really need is a UHF antenna which also has good gain numbers for the high vhf band (10 and 13). Channelmaster 4228 fits this description but it is a fairly large and heavy antenna (similar in shape to the DB2 but about 4x the size). Mounting the 4228 outside requires some pretty substanstial mounting hardware. The DB2 is mainly a UHF antenna which doesn't do a particularly good job with VHF, but it might work since you are able to receive KSBW-DT with just rabbit ears.

I would start out by trying the rabbit ears in the garage and then outdoors to see if the signal improves. When orienting the antenna, keep in mind that moving the antenna by as little as a inch will have a effect on which signals you receive and how strong they are. If moving the rabbit ears outdoors does not help, you might then try something like the DB2 or 4228, just make sure you purchase it from a vendor who will allow you to return it if it doesn't work. Check the vendor to make sure they don't charge restocking on returns. Also, if you go with the Channelmaster 4228, you will have to be careful with it as it is heavy and its easy to tweak the wire mesh. If you tweak it too much you might have problems returning it.

If you aren't able to find one location which allows you to receive all the Digital channels, you may have to resort to using one antenna for VHF and one for UHF using an amp to combine the signals.

For more info, I would recommend searching back through this thread for posts from myself,PGDave,LeftCoastDave and others. There have been quite a few posts about setting up antennas in different locations which should be of help. My personal antenna setup is described in an earlier post here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8314481#post8314481
This setup is still going strong - I get everything *except* KQET.

Good luck and please post your questions and experiences in this thread as you try different things.

Steadman,
I'm over in Watsonville and I put a ChannelMaster 4221 on my roof using a 10' pole. I get KION-DT, KSBW-DT, KCBA-DT and all KQET-DT with no problems. I installed a second CM4221 trying to get KICU-DT but no luck. The CM4221 is a 4 bay ant. that's 1/2 of a CM4228. I picked it up at FR*S in SJ for $29.99, the regular price was $49.99, but box was marked with the lower price.
I have to rely on OTA since cable stops one mile from my house. Purchased my first HDTV two months ago, a VIZIO, and WOW, I never knew OTA could be so clear and sharp.

Workingman - good job going to the trouble to grab the free OTA HD channels. If more people did this then the pukes at Comcast would be forced to increase their cable work and keep up with channel additions.

We're in the Carbonera area of Santa Cruz near the intersection of 1 and 17 and we get the same channels OTA.

regards,

patrick

I wonder if this is gonna happen in Monterey/Santa Cruz????

http://www.siliconvalley.com/latestheadlines/ci_9361579

Based upon the stone wall we face regarding expansion,. I'd say you have hit this on the head. Frankly, it can only get better. And if not, I nuke it.

I hope they don't do that to you guys, We have charter cable in south Monterey County and they suck! But good thing I have Dishnetwork ;)

I soooooo want those Charter systems in Capitola - Watsonville - Castroville to be acquired by C*. It would be an easy plug in.

a puke

ps, Carboner canyon is my favorite fishook bypass.

Barovelli...

And you're right, they are dying for a system upgrade. Unfortunately, Charter has a signed deal with Capitola and and have zero incentive to sell.

If you work for Comcast then maybe you can explain why we have no expansion to keep up with the Bay Area?

regards,

patrick

Barovelli...

And you're right, they are dying for a system upgrade. Unfortunately, Charter has a signed deal with Capitola and and have zero incentive to sell.

If you work for Comcast then maybe you can explain why we have no expansion to keep up with the Bay Area?

Everyone has their price. Charter could want a system that Comcast owns somewhere in the country.

Why there's been no physical upgrade? I can't say too much, but sure would like to use DCH3416s there . . .

can you PM me and share just a slightly less coded message?

thanks

patrick

Snarfshark and Workingmantom:

Thanks for the answers to my antenna question. I followed Workingmantom’s example and installed a Channel Master 4221 except I put it inside my garage. After some experimentation I have it pointed towards Fremont Peak. I get KSBW, KQET, and KCBA at 100%. KION is 94%. I obviously don’t need a second antenna for VHF or for Mount Toro. The reception for all stations is perfect. This was a lot easier than I was anticipating.

Jack Steadman

Jacksteadman:
I'm glad that the CM4221 ant. worked out for you. It's a great ant. for the local stations, without being a large eyesore.
I added a second unit in hopes of picking up KICU36 in digital, but no such luck, although I do receive the analog broadcast clearly. Maybe I'll try a CM4228 or an XG91 to get some of the San Jose stations. Tom

Howdy,
Just thought I would check in with my results of finally switching from analog OTA to digital OTA.

I live near downtown Monterey, a couple of blocks up the hill from the Marriot, and yes, it's partially blocking my line-of-sight to Fremont Peak, along with 2 apartment buildings. I live on the bottom floor of a 2 story apartment complex with a window that faces east.

I just received my Channel Master CM-7000 digital to analog converter box today. I've got it plugged into a very nice 10 year old S-video equipped 19" Panasonic TV. I'm using a neat home made indoor antenna I learned about here:
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/762088/coat_hanger_hdtv_antenna_better_than_store_bought_amazing/

I'm getting 12 digital channels (including the sub channels). Fox and CBS both give me perfect, 100% reception, while NBC and PBS seem to vary between 75-100%, with only an occasional audio drop out, and even less occasional freezes and blocking of the image. All in all not to bad.

I think with a bit of fine tuning to my antenna that I will be able to improve all my reception to near 100%, but even the way it is now it's such a drastic improvement from what I'm used to seeing that I'm totally satisfied with my modest investment. Very nice indeed.

I mucked around with one of my antenna yesterday to see about grabbing NBC off of the San Jose KNTV feed. I couldn't receive squat, and previously I could grab it without issue. We're in the Carbonera area off 17 near Pasatiempo and receive all of the local channels OTA.

Are they not sending signal over the hill toward us anymore?

The reason I wanted to grab it was they show slightly different timing than the local NBC feed, and had the Olympic trials a full three hours sooner.

I know it formerly was there as 11-1 and 11-02.

Any thoughts? Was I just careless in pointing my antenna?

thanks

patrick

I mucked around with one of my antenna yesterday to see about grabbing NBC off of the San Jose KNTV feed. I couldn't receive squat, and previously I could grab it without issue. We're in the Carbonera area off 17 near Pasatiempo and receive all of the local channels OTA.

Are they not sending signal over the hill toward us anymore?

The reason I wanted to grab it was they show slightly different timing than the local NBC feed, and had the Olympic trials a full three hours sooner.

I know it formerly was there as 11-1 and 11-02.

Any thoughts? Was I just careless in pointing my antenna?

thanks

patrick

KNTV moved their transmitter to Mt. San Bruno over a year ago. They are no longer transmitting from Loma Prieta.

Awesome, it feels so good to be so on top of things! One year ago? ha ha ha

Thanks, I'll not try to receive 11DT anymore, and resign myself to the second tier NBC we receive from our local feed.

patrick

I have been experimenting with UHF antennas here in Monterey.
I am at about 550 feet in the Monte Vista area. Zenith DTT901
Here is what I can get for Digital stations, (RF channel listed);
Rabbit ears;
KSBW 10, KQET 58, KCBA 13, KION 32, KSMS 31

With an gain antenna and clear view to the NNE (Mt Allison and Monument Pk)
(an old Winegard HD-9095P I believe, with 5' run of RG59)
KDTV 51, KICU 52, KSTS 49, KTEH 50.
And the following RF channels have a hint of a signal but NO picture;
18, 24, 30, 61, 63, 41, 47
(antenna was swung from NNW to E).
Keith

KGO-DT TO TEST DIGITAL ON CHANNEL 7 SUNDAY

Now is your chance to see how well you'll get KGO-DT next year when they switch their digital operation to channel 7... that is, if you don't mind losing a little sleep this weekend!

KGO will turn off their analog transmitter at 2:30 am this coming Sunday morning, September 14, for three and a half hours. After a short period to get set up, they will be testing the new channel 7 digital transmitter starting at approximately 2:45 to 2:50 am.

They will be testing the digital transmitter on channel 7 for about 3 hours. There might be times when they will be off the air for short periods, but they hope to be on the air for most of the 3 hours.

I don't know if the channel 24 transmitter will remain on the air during this time or not. That wasn't mentioned in the email I received from KGO's Director of Engineering, Janice Reyes.

You will, of course, have to do a scan so that your receiver will pick up the channel 7 digital signal and then re-scan for channel 24 after they go back to normal operation.

KGO will turn the analog transmitter back on at approximately 6:00 am and resume normal operation at that time.

I'm going to stay up and watch. It's going to be interesting to see how well their 24 Kw ERP signal on channel 7 compares to their 561 Kw ERP signal on channel 24, so I hope some of you will stay up and report your results.

Any signal reports I see I'll forward back to KGO.

Larry
SF

For those down Monterey way, I did a test today from the overlook on
Holman Hwy 68 near the S curves (several hundred feet North of the
Senic Dr/Los Alsos Dr overcrossing) Elev. 665ft
4-bowtie with reflector for UHF, ch8 yagi for VHF
Zenith DTT901 receiver.
I could get a picture on the following RF Digital channels (not
counting the Monterey stations);
29 KPIX
24 KGO
30 KQED
12 KNTV
And I could get a yellow bar but no pic on the following
56 KTVU
57 KRON
51 KDTV
19 KBWB
33 KMPT
52 KICU
39 KCNS
43 KCSM
45 KBCW
49 KSTS
41 KKPX
34 KFSF
47 KTLN
It would be interesting for someone that knows the antenna layout and
power level on Sutro to compare the first 4 with the others.
Keith

Anyone try to DVR "Chuck" OTA last night? I ended up with 26 one minute recordings of it on my VIP 722?? Not sure if it was the broadcast, the receiver or me (or one of the kids playing with the remote again.).

It recorded fine on my Series 3 Tivo OTA 8-1. So OTA, per say, was OK.

regards,
patrick

THanks, I think it was an oddity with the one OTA tuner on the 722 being "confused."

Does anyone else have a problem with KCBA 35-1. I live in Watsonville, and when a commercial comes on, I get a popping noise right at the start of the commercial or when the program starts again. This happens 4-5 times an hour. TV is a Vizio VX32, about six months old. Thanks

Hello.

No, I have not experienced the issue you describe. I watch OTA using the built-in tuner on my Panasonic plasma or the Tivo Series 3 (depending upon how busy the Tivo is), and just watched the baseball game last night OTA on 35-1.

Only on 35-1? That's weird. Have you tried attenuating the signal to see if, perhaps it is overloading the tuner? I'm grasping at straws here but it should be easy to test.

regards,
patrick

I am in Aptos and have not experienced any popping OTA on 35-1. I use the VIP 722.

Just curious if any one in the Santa Cruz area has tried to get ABC OTA? The tower is 61 miles from my house but I have a pretty good LOS for about 30 miles in that direction.

thanks

^^
I've attempted to figure out if it was even possible. It doesn't really seem so, at least not for me. I'm limited in how obscene in size my antenna is, because I live in a townhouse/apt thingy. I've looked at maps showing broadcast ranges and looks like people around SC are generally SOL... the SC mountains mess everything up. I'm supposed to get a new antenna from monoprice, we'll see how that goes, but it'll most likely be facing southeast towards the Salinas towers so it seems unlikely I'd even get trace amounts of KGO.

According to information posted on the San Francisco HDTV Yahoo Group - http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HDTV-in-SFbay/ - 23 stations in the San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose and the Salinas-Monterey markets will do a 2-minute DTV test between 7:28pm and 7:30pm on Wednesday 12/17.

This is part of a coordinated effort sponsored by the National Association of Broadcasters and the FCC. It is actually expected to occur around the same local time across all four time zones of the US resulting in thousands of stations participating.

This should be interesting given the national factor and that it is a full two minutes, plus later in the evening when the number of television sets actually in use is pretty high.

There will be another two tests for at least the San Francisco Bay Area in January and in February.

The notice also reminds everyone that they will need to rescan their receivers on February 18 for changes that will occur during the transition. Several Bay Area and Monterey-Salinas stations will be making channel changes.

Larry
SF

Just curious if any one in the Santa Cruz area has tried to get ABC OTA? The tower is 61 miles from my house but I have a pretty good LOS for about 30 miles in that direction.

thanks

When KGO conducted a test of their digital transmitter on channel 7 during the wee hours of the morning a few weeks ago, someone in Pacific Grove was able to get a solid signal. I have a feeling that they had a good shot right over the water, bypassing all of the hills.

Unless you can get a fairly decent analog picture on channel 7 now, I doubt very much if you'll get the digital signal post transition in February. The station's coverage is supposed to be just about the same for digital as it is for analog, but remember the digital cliff edge. You have to have enough signal for the tuner to figure out all of those ones and zeros to make a picture.

It's going to be interesting to see what coverage all of the stations will have once the analog transmitters are turned off. For the UHF digital stations transmitting from Sutro Tower, they won't be on their permanent antennas until early fall, 2009. All of the analog antennas have to be removed after the shutdown and all new digital antennas will be installed in their place high atop the tower. Then the stations will be to go to their final operating mode.

Larry
SF

Larry and Diabloazul, Thanks for the good info. Once sutro is up to full operating power I will buy the largest antenna I can find (that is returnable) and give it a shot.

I did plot a solution from my roof to Sutro. Unfortunately the line runs parallel over the highest part of the mountain range for a good distance.

Thanks again, Greg

KSBW will be testing dtv at 6

SALINAS, Calif. -- KSBW Action News 8 Reports at 6 p.m. will perform a DTV test to give viewers the chance to see if their televisions are ready for the digital conversion set to take place Feb. 17, 2009.

The analog signal will switch to digital for about two minutes to allow viewers to see if their televisions are receiving a digital signal.

Viewers who are not DTV ready will see a graphic on their television sets telling them what they need to do to prepare for the switch.

On Feb. 17, all full-power broadcast television stations in the United States will stop broadcasting on analog airwaves and begin broadcasting only in digital.

Digital broadcasting will allow stations to offer improved picture and sound quality and additional channels.

http://www.ksbw.com/news/18299650/detail.html

I have comcast digital cable without a HD box so in order for me to view the local HD channels I have to connect the coaxial cable directly to the tv skipping the box. Now after I do a channel scan how do I know which channels are HD and which ones aren't? So for NBC its channel 6 but how do I find out what channel the HD version of NBC is? Zip code is 93901

Does anyone know if KION is transmitting TVGOS?

If you mean the show title and info on 46.1 (32) digital, yes it is... Keith

If you mean the show title and info on 46.1 (32) digital, yes it is... Keith

Not the PSIP program information transmitted by each station, but the TV Guide On Screen program service that TV Guide has contracted with CBS to transmit. Not all CBS stations are doing it though. It's more like the program guide found on the satellite providers. Some new equipment like the Dish DTVPal DVR can use it.

I have an old VCR with analog tuner that would occasionaly pop up the show title (but not more), Is that what you are looking for? I could put an antenna on it and see.
Won't that be going away when they turn off the analog transmitter?
Keith in Monterey

You have to have to have a device that uses TVGOS. TVGOS is very similar to what you see when you press Guide on your cable or satellite box except it's for OTA.

OK, just hooked up my analog vcr tuner to 46 and I get "PRICE IS RIGHT" on the screen.
Is that what you are looking for?
I assume all that will go away in Feb, and your digital converter (or ATSC receiver) would use the new system?
Keith

OH, and I see "NET6" where I think the callsign should be on ch 46, and some stations also have "SAP" and "STERO"....Keith

SAN FRANCISCO, Jan. 7 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- AT&T Mobility and Consumer Markets today announced the launch of AT&T U-verse(SM) TV, AT&T U-verse High Speed Internet and AT&T U-verse Voice in parts of the Salinas and Monterey areas. Don't know what parts of the cities it's install at. I wonder if as good as Dishnetwork?

http://newsblaze.com/story/2009010700030200002.pnw/topstory.html

Some potential good news for local Dish subs. I just saw in the DBStalk forum that Dish's' new sat has "up-linked" CBS, NBC and fox for the Monterey DMA. While not a sure thing it suggests that dish in negotiating to broadcast our locals (except for ABC of course) in HD.

If this happens I personally will get on my soap box to convert comcast subs to Dish.

They don't mention it on their HD-Locals Coming-Soon page;
http://www.dishnetwork.com/turbohd/localChannels/default.aspx
But you can sign up for email alerts if they do.
Keith

I live over on the east side of SC in the pleasure point area. I can get NBC, FOX and several other HD channels and subchannels with a simple rabbit ear and some aluminum foil, however whenever I tune to KION, CH 46.1 on my plasma's built in tuner, all I get is the sound and NO picture. This seems kind of odd to me. Usually, I get a 1)strong signal with picture AND sound, 2)a weak signal with the odd bits missing and sound that is also spotty or 3)NO Signal at all.
anyone else experience this? any ideas what's going on or where I can find out what is happening? could this be an issue with my tv's tuner?

You would think we would be much farther along with this whole HD thing by now <sigh>
thanks for any help.
-Tony O

They don't mention it on their HD-Locals Coming-Soon page;
http://www.dishnetwork.com/turbohd/localChannels/default.aspx
But you can sign up for email alerts if they do.
Keith

I must admit that I do not ever go to the Dish website. I use DBStalk. Not sure why it is not mentioned on their site. My best guess is that it is not a done deal yet-that being up-linked means it is a possibility if everyone in charge can play nice!

I live just off HWY 68 between Salinas and Monterey. Is it possible to get local channels in HD and what do I need to do. Would love to watch the Super Bowl in high def...Thanks

jeffurm28@gmail.com

You should be able to get the locals on Fremont Peak and Mt Toro. You need a High Definition TV to get HD, and maybe an outside antenna depending. You can get them in digital (non-HD) with a converter box hooked to an older TV.
KEith in Monterey

I live just off HWY 68 between Salinas and Monterey. Is it possible to get local channels in HD and what do I need to do. Would love to watch the Super Bowl in high def...Thanks

jeffurm28@gmail.com


I live off Highway 68 on the south side of the hill below Bay Ridge which faces onto Pasadera CC. We are in Mesa Hills West at an elevation of about 600 feet. I get all locals in HD (CBS, NBC, FOX, PBS) with a simple Zenith Silver Sensor antenna on the floor behind my entertainment cabinet.

I have a clear shot at the digital towers by sighting on azimuths over the adjacent hilltops. I do need a different antenna to catch PBS and its subchannels but the signals are strong if you are at the right elevation. I have a rooftop omnidirectional antenna that gets CBS, NBC, and Fox but not PBS.

What type of antenna do i need to get to pick up HD from Markham Ranch (Corral de Tierra).

What type of antenna do i need to get to pick up HD from Markham Ranch (Corral de Tierra).

You could try the silver sensor or equivalent from Radio Shack -- it if doesn't work, return it. Zenith, Philips and Terk all make one.

http://electronics.pricegrabber.com/antennas/m/30895447/

I recently did a survey of the FCC database to get updates, changes and new applications for stations in the Bay Area, Sacramento-Stockton and Monterey-Salinas to make sure my lists of DTV Channels were up to date.

I found a few modifications to construction permits, several applications for auxiliary operation and lots of new low power digital station applications. All of the new information has been updated in my lists. You might be surprised to see the number of low power stations that are applying for the low-VHF channels being vacated by high powered analog stations.

I now have two complete stations lists - the original one ( http://www.choisser.com/sfonair.html ) sorted by virtual channel, and a second one ( http://www.choisser.com/sfonair2.html ) sorted by the post-transition transmitter channel. You'll be able to find the new stations easier in the new list. If you click on a call sign in the list, it will take you to that stations records on the FCC web site where you can find full details about the station, including a coverage map found under "Area: Service Contour Map".

Some of the low powered digital stations already have licenses, so they should be on the air soon, if they aren't already. I would appreciate an email note if you find any of the new stations on the air so that I can update my list. Since most cover just a local area, I'm going to need help for the stations that are not in San Francisco. Thanks!

Larry
SF

So any of our local station going for feb 17th or wait till June 12th?

I haven't read anything about any of the Monterey/Salinas stations going off before June 12th. I have read that Hearst-Argyle has pledged to keep their analog stations on through June 12th (KSBW).

We'll know for sure though after the Monday deadline for stations to file for a Feb. 17th turn off.

Chuck

From Broadcast Engineering
http://broadcastengineering.com/hdtv/san-francisco-stations-delay-analog-shutdown-0206/

San Francisco TV stations delay analog shutdown
Feb 6, 2009 8:42 AM

At a meeting February 5, the heads of the 11 television stations broadcasting from San Francisco’s Sutro Tower decided to delay the analog shutdown until the new deadline just passed by Congress and the Senate. The new date of June 12 will add 84 days to the transition in order to assist viewers not yet ready. This also means that stations waiting until June 12 will also have higher electric bills and possible construction delays on permanent DTV facilities. As a result, Sutro Tower has just started a multimillion dollar project to add a new main and standby community antennas for most all stations. Problems concerning the construction delays and how that would affect the contractor were discussed at the meeting and have been worked out.

Also of concern are the two stations that are now broadcasting on out-of-core DTV channels and need to jump to channels now occupied by analog stations. KTVU is now broadcasting on DTV Channel 56 and will switch to DTV Channel 44 after the transition, but KBCW is currently using Channel 44 for its analog signal. In addition, KRON, which is now using DTV Channel 57, will switch to Channel 38, which KCNS is currently using for its analog signal. The local ABC O&O KGO is currently on Channel 7 analog and Channel 24 DTV but will switch back and use Channel 7 for its digital after the transition.

There are several stations in surrounding areas that plan to use currently occupied analog channels after the transition. With this staggered switch, there could be interference problems for viewers in some areas.

KION has filed a "Termination of Analog Service" with the FCC and assuming it is approved, will end analog on 2/17/09.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/corrp_list.pl?Facility_id=26249

Chuck

The deadline has passed for stations to notify the FCC that they will be shutting down their analog transmitter on February 17. (The deadline was 11:59 pm EST Monday.) We just searched the files for all of the stations in this area and found the following:

Stations signing off their analog transmitter on February 17 are:
KOFY 20 San Francisco
KICU 36 San Jose
KCNS 38 San Francisco
KION 46 Monterey

There were no stations shown for the Sacramento-Stockton market.

There was a notice that KRON digital would be operating at half power on channel 57 beginning January 5th so that they could modify half of their transmitter for channel 38. At the transition they will come up on channel 38 at half power, then modify the other half of their transmitter and return to full power on channel 38 at a later date.

There was another notice that KTNC would be turning off their channel 63 digital transmitter on January 12, so that they could install their new transmitter and antenna for channel 14. They said they would be ready to go on with the new facility on February 18. (With the transition delay and KDTV analog staying on the air until 6/12, it looks like KTNC will not have a digital signal on the air for four more months now.)

As of this time, President Obama has still not signed the DTV Delay bill. You can check the status of the bill at:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:S352:

(Just a thought: Can you imagine the craziness that will occur if the president vetoes the bill?)

Larry
SF

The FCC has released a complete list of full power stations in the US by DMA showing all of the stations that have already shut down, or will be shutting down, their analog transmitter before or on February 17.

There are two stations in this area on the FCC list that weren't in the list that I sent out last night:
KCBA 35 Salinas
KFTY 50 Santa Rosa

So the complete list for the SF Bay Area/Sacramento/Stockton/Salinas/Monterey is:
KOFY 20 San Francisco
KCBA 35 Salinas
KICU 36 San Jose
KCNS 38 San Francisco
KION 46 Monterey
KFTY 50 Santa Rosa

No stations in Sacramento/Stockton will be shutting down early.

The only station that will be doing Nightlight Service is KOFY 20.

For a complete list of stations nationwide released by the FCC this afternoon download this PDF file:
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-221A5.pdf
Look for the stations printed in red. Those are the ones going off early.

That's the latest info.

Larry
SF

Check out the new FCC maps:

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/

Larry
SF

Hi:

I'm using a DirecTV HR20 receiver connected to a rooftop antenna with amplifier. I'm getting FOX 35.1 and KSBW's 8.2 weather channel, but nothing on 8.1.

Does anyone know if this is an issue of my sat receiver expecting 8.1 to be on channel 8 instead of channel 10? I wrote to KSBW and they said they have been broadcasting in digital, so I'm not sure why my box can't see any signal on 8.1.

Hi,is anyone in the Watsonville area able to receive kicu in digital? I've always received a good analog signal but I'm unable to get the digital signal. I'm using a channel master 4221 at about 20' from the ground and have not been able to get a signal. I've been thinking about going higher and maybe trying a CM4228 or an XG91. Any opinions? Thanks, Tom

Hi:

I'm using a DirecTV HR20 receiver connected to a rooftop antenna with amplifier. I'm getting FOX 35.1 and KSBW's 8.2 weather channel, but nothing on 8.1.

Does anyone know if this is an issue of my sat receiver expecting 8.1 to be on channel 8 instead of channel 10? I wrote to KSBW and they said they have been broadcasting in digital, so I'm not sure why my box can't see any signal on 8.1.

8.2 is KSBW-DT on channel 10. I can't imagine why you can't see 8.1. Maybe you should call your sat company.

Chuck

Hi,is anyone in the Watsonville area able to receive kicu in digital? I've always received a good analog signal but I'm unable to get the digital signal. I'm using a channel master 4221 at about 20' from the ground and have not been able to get a signal. I've been thinking about going higher and maybe trying a CM4228 or an XG91. Any opinions? Thanks, Tom

I can tell you that my experience is their digital channel 52 is a lot harder to receive than their analog 36. It's probably the frequency difference. KTEH is much weaker up here than KICU but their digital channels are similar.

Aren't you guys watching KICU on K29AB? I see they have a construction permit for a digital transmitter on 29. Maybe they'll switch over to it on June 13th and then you'll have no problem.

Chuck

Aren't you guys watching KICU on K29AB? I see they have a construction permit for a digital transmitter on 29. Maybe they'll switch over to it on June 13th and then you'll have no problem.

Chuck

I'm not looking forward to that. KICU-DT comes in fine here on the Monterey Peninsula. K29AB (an analog translator) causes interference with KPIX-DT which also transmits on channel 29. Other local LP analog stations that cause interference: 19 makes getting KOFY-DT iffy; 43 precludes receiving KCSM; 23 rules out KRCB and 38 probably will cause problems getting KRON when they move to 38 in June.

I'm not looking forward to that. KICU-DT comes in fine here on the Monterey Peninsula. K29AB (an analog translator) causes interference with KPIX-DT which also transmits on channel 29. Other local LP analog stations that cause interference: 19 makes getting KOFY-DT iffy; 43 precludes receiving KCSM; 23 rules out KRCB and 38 probably will cause problems getting KRON when they move to 38 in June.

I hear you. The FCC, in their fervor to put as many stations on the air as possible, has made reception of any station outside of your market very hard or impossible. I've already lost KION here when KFTY moved to 32. The transition will make some things better and some worse.

They're doing to TV what they did to the AM band which is nearly unlistenable at night because there are so many stations on every frequency.

Chuck

I'd appreciate a note when KCBA and KION end their Nightlite Service and turn off their analog transmitters, so that I can keep my DTV Channels list up to date. Thanks!

KOFY 20 in San Francisco turned off their transmitter Tuesday night.

KICU 36 is still airing Nightlight Service.

Larry
SF

I'd appreciate a note when KCBA and KION end their Nightlite Service and turn off their analog transmitters, so that I can keep my DTV Channels list up to date. Thanks!


I just took a look and I see nothing now on 35 or 46 analog. Sometimes I can't see 35 because it so weak but I could always see 46.

BTW, KION was showing a single screen saying both KCBA and KION had gone to digital only. So I assume if one is off, both are off.

Chuck

I received an email on March 4 from a viewer in Monterey who said that KCBA and KION analog had gone to snow.

He also reported that KYMB 27 in Monterey has a crawl saying that they're going digital soon. Their web site - http://www.kymbtv.com/ - shows that they will have 4 sub-channels: 27-1: MGM-This, 27-2: Mega TV, 27-3: Coastal TV and 27-4: America One.

Larry
SF

KYMB digital, 27.1 through 27.4, came on the air today.

I think this is the first low power digital to come on the air in Northern CA. It's the first one I've heard about.

The transmitter is running 5 kW from 574 feet from southeast of Monterey. What kind of coverage does it have?

Larry
SF

I have not confirmed it at home but it is posted that DISH has now uplinked NBC-HD, CBS-HD and Fox-HD to the Salinas/Monterey (including Santa Cruz County) DMA.

Yeah

I have not confirmed it at home but it is posted that DISH has now uplinked NBC-HD, CBS-HD and Fox-HD to the Salinas/Monterey (including Santa Cruz County) DMA.

Yeah

Yeah just saw that on KSBW so far it looks good, but I wish we can get a ABC HD feed...

KYMB digital, 27.1 through 27.4, came on the air today.

I think this is the first low power digital to come on the air in Northern CA. It's the first one I've heard about.

The transmitter is running 5 kW from 574 feet from southeast of Monterey. What kind of coverage does it have?

Larry
SF


I'm going to try scan for it Larry i'll get back to you on that.

I agree-it is stupid that we can not get ABC-HD OTA or through DISH/Direct. At least comcast is broadcasting it now but who wants comcast!

I can also confirm that DISH is now broadcasting our locals in HD-minus ABC-HD.

I agree-it is stupid that we can not get ABC-HD OTA or through DISH/Direct. At least comcast is broadcasting it now but who wants comcast!

I have DirecTv and I get the LA feed of ABC-HD. Since we don't have a "local" ABC station, you can choose the get 2 SD feeds (LA and NY) or 1 HD feed (LA). All you have to do is call. Took less than 5 minutes for mine to be turned on.

Hi kittykat, I am able to get ABC-SD through All American Direct. WHo did you call to get ABC-HD?

TIA

Dish doesn't offer distant ABC in HD via All American Direct...at least not yet. I was told by a AAD customer rep that they would offer it by the end of March, but I have not seen or heard anything credible for anyone else. Direct TV can offer them though like KittyKay says.

DirecTv - 1-800-531-5000

The FCC required all full power stations that have not yet ended their analog transmission to file a Termination of Analog Service form by 5:30 pm EDT Tuesday (3/17) advising the date they would be ending their analog service. All of the Monterey-Salinas stations that are still transmitting an analog signal will terminate analog on June 12th except KQET 25. They have requested early termination on May 9th.

Larry
SF

I'm just curious if this channel is being recieved in the city of Santa Cruz or to be more exact, I'm in the Pleasure Point area over on the east side. I can pick up NBC and Fox but my attempts at picking up CBS in HD have been unsuccessful. FYI, I'm using one of those "coat hanger" antenna's whose plans are all over the internet. Oddly, I can get perfect sound, but sound ONLY on CBS if the antennae is oriented properly - the picture is blank, which confuses me even further.

tia,
Tony O

Tony O, I have been having unreliable OTA KION signal strength for several months. I live in Aptos and for about 18 months it was coming in fine?? I have not looked further into it as my sat company, Dish, has recenlty added locals (yeah).

Please post if you find anything out

At least now I know I am not alone...
do you get the subchannel at least? (46.2)
I can get that one clear if I play around with the antennae.

what sort of antennae are/were you using to get OTA signals?
I was thinking that maybe I need a UHF as well as the one I am using at the moment.

cheers
Tony O

I have the same shaky experience with 46-2. I have a medium range channel master UHV/VHF. I have not gone up on the roof to re aim after losing the signal strength. SO far the DISH provided locas have been problem free

Im just playing with my new computer with QAM tuner. I only see one unencrypted HD channel (KQED)? Anyone else have bettter luck or maybe skill?

KICU-DT is now transmitting on RF channel 36. The signal is now stronger in Monterey; it used to be in the mid 60s and is now in the low 80s. You will have to rescan or manually add this channel.

CBS COMCAST reception problems

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I live in the Monterey Bay area and I am hook up to HDTV cable with COMCAST. I have recently noticed that on channel 705 CBS KION every 2-3 minutes there are intermittent streaks and digital drop outs. The reception is ok but the streaks are annoying. This is the only channel that has this problem. I checked all my cable connections and HDMI connections and everything is fine. I have been on COMCAST HDTV cable for the past 3-4 years and have just noticed this problem. Has anyone else noticed this.

Thank you!

CBS COMCAST reception problems

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


This does have the attention of the local system. I was asked to also watch KCBA HD for the same issue. Has anyone noticed pixelations on that channel?

Same goes for the SD version - though I think it's a HD channel only problem.

Thanks for any and all feedback

Dish is now offering ABC HD through AAD. Its a bit expensive-almost $10 a month!

Now that KGO has moved from UHF channel 24 to VHF 7, their signal is much stronger in the Monterey Bay area (see photo below). Although they are now transmitting from the base of Sutro tower, they have temporarily tripled their power to compensate for the lower antenna height. I am able to receive KGO reliably 100% of the time. The signal should be even better when they move their antenna back to the top of Sutro tower around July 15. A rooftop VHF antenna is necessary to receive KGO in our area.

I am having trouble getting KSBW-DT off the air on channel 8-1.

Previously with an omni directional rooftop antenna I was able to get a signal strength of 65-70 on my HR20-700, but since the end of May I have been unable to get anything. I am located off highway 68 in Monterey at an elevation of about 500 feet above sea level with a decent line of sight to the Northeast over Pasadera CC.

Are any of you able to get 8-1 or 8-2 and if so have they moved the transmitter requiring me to re-orient my antenna?

I hear similar complaints from friends in downtown Salinas so if anyone can enlighten me I would be grateful.

They have not moved their transmitter but they did change their transmitting channel from VHF 10 to VHF 8. You will have to rescan to get KSBW. Their signal is very strong and anyone in this area should be able to receive it.



I am having trouble getting KSBW-DT off the air on channel 8-1.

Previously with an omni directional rooftop antenna I was able to get a signal strength of 65-70 on my HR20-700, but since the end of May I have been unable to get anything. I am located off highway 68 in Monterey at an elevation of about 500 feet above sea level with a decent line of sight to the Northeast over Pasadera CC.

Are any of you able to get 8-1 or 8-2 and if so have they moved the transmitter requiring me to re-orient my antenna?

I hear similar complaints from friends in downtown Salinas so if anyone can enlighten me I would be grateful.

Comcast has just announced adding up to 80 new HD channels in most of the bay area. NOT Santa Cruz/Monterery-afaik. I would like to return to Comcast if they would upgrade this area-I cant imagine paying them the same amount of money for the few HD channels availbable here that those with 80+ HD channels get! Maybe by the time my two year Dish contract is up...

Anyone know when Comcast is expanding our HD lineup in Monterey? I'd like to get MSNBC in HD. Thanks!!

AAD's HD Channels come out of Chicago and LA (Soon I think Chicago will be replaced by Dallas/Fort Worth. but their SD service comes out of SF and NYC (previously Atlanta until 3/4/09)

I've made a change to my DTV Channel lists. Instead of guessing about what the virtual (PSIP) channel will be for stations not yet on the air, I've changed them all to question marks. In the list where the channels are listed by virtual channel, you'll now find all of these stations at the bottom of the list in the order of transmit channel.

If anyone finds any of these new digital low power or translator stations on the air, please let me know and tell me what they're using for their virtual channel.

Thanks.

Larry
SF

The antenna removal and replacement project continues on Sutro Tower in San Francisco.

More photos have been added to my Sutro Tower site at:
http://www.larrykenney.com/sutrotwr.html

Larry
SF

Anyone in Aptos/santa Cruz able to get KGO-hd since july 21? I have not gone up to try.

KGO tv was my strongest signal after the digital changeover, it is gone at present, my understanding is that none of the stations transmitting from Sutro are using the new antennas during daylight hours M-S, I question if they are bothering to use the new antennas anytime yet, at present I'm recieving channels 2 and 20 intermittently (In Aromas), according to the information that was given in January the changeover would take 8 to 10 months to complete, so were looking at the end of October to get our stations back online, at that time I'll have to look at replacing my old off the air antenna if there is a signal strong enough to detect.

KGO 7 is now operating on its permanent antenna, except for during the daytime while the crew is working atop the tower. From about 5 pm on, they are transmitting from the new antenna at full power. What you're getting now is their final coverage.

The UHF stations will not be moving to the new antennas until the entire project is finished in October.

Larry
SF

Thanks Larry!

KSBW is now back on their omni antenna that they used on analog 8. The signal is dramatically better in those areas that used to be able to receive analog 8 but had difficulty with digital 10 and 8 after the transition. Its about 20 dB stronger where I am.

Chuck

KSBW is now back on their omni antenna that they used on analog 8. The signal is dramatically better in those areas that used to be able to receive analog 8 but had difficulty with digital 10 and 8 after the transition. Its about 20 dB stronger where I am.

Chuck

Can any DirecTV users out there confirm if they are currently receiving KSBW OTA with their DirecTV boxes?

I have lost my KSBW OTA all of a sudden. I'm assuming that they are still broadcasting on physical channel 8, just using a different antenna.

I used to get 8-1 KSBW-DT on my HR20's but lost the signal about the time the world went digital. I typically got a 65%+ signal strength both on my rooftop omni directional antenna and with my table top silver sensors, but now I cannot get anything except the old 771 searching for channels. Something ain't right.

I'm a new directv subscriber that was just hooked up last night. I laid a RCA ANT 751 on my deck railing and am getting 80+ on 8-1 with an HR20-700.

I've also lost 8-1 and 25-1 since the transition. Fiddled with my indoor antenna quite a bit the other day but to no avail.

Ive lost signal stenght in 8-1 and 25-1 too. I can still receive them about 90% of the time but, as you all know, those breakups are sooo annoying. i have not tried to re aim the roof mount...such a hassle geting up there on my house!

Is it me or KION in HD now?

It looks to me like some of the field cameras and some of the studio are HD but some studio is stretched, upconverted (not real sharp). Im not complaining-it is a good start and I bet it will prompt KBSW to do them one better!

Yeah after watching it more it does look upconverted, but it looks way better than before. Kswb studio still looks like they stuck in 80's

I am brand new to this area (formerly the founder of the Colo Spgs thread) and was wondering if anyone could give me a heads up on what the best option is for pay HDTV in this area?

I have been in Europe for the last 6 years so I am fairly unaware of what is available now. Previously I had DirecTV, but even six yrs ago the HD feeds looked quite over-compressed. I was hoping AT&t Uverse would be available in my area (Seaside), but it is not.

So again, any advice would be greatly appreciated!

OTA HD is very nice here if you can grab the signals. I live in Santa Cruz and lost the local NBC and PBS signals at the digital transition. Hoping those guys are upgrading their transmission power.

Otherwise, I have both DirecTV and Dish. DirecTV seems much more committed to HD quality in its offerings, though I'm always wanting more HD channels. It sure beats any local cable HD quality I've seen.

I do not recommend COmcast for this DMA-at least in Santa Cruz they have not added the 70 plus HD stations they have added in the bay area and have not made any plans to do so known. I have Dish with the HD only package (which I do not think is available) and I am happy. I do have to pay AAD to get ABC-HD.

Is anyone having trouble with Fox KCBA? For the last few months I have had a very weird signal (on 35-1) on my Directv tuners connected to the antennae. I have strong signals for NBC (8-1) and CBS (46-1), but while the Fox signal is reported to be 95-100%, there is a problem in that the DVR cannot navigate backwards or forwards thru a recorded program. It's always been a little tempermental, but now it's downright unwatchable.

FYI, I have both the Directv HR20 and the newer +HD DVR with the off air adapter.

I'd love to compare notes!
TERI (West Side SC)

In this area, how does the visual quality of Comcast compare to DirecTV or DISH with regards to HD channels? My Comcast cable internet installer swore that in the Monterey area the Comcast HD quality was less compressed than the satellite services.

Again, since I haven't been in the states for a while, I don't really have any better info at the moment. So, please chime in...

I switched from Comcast HD to Dish HD about 1.5 years ago. I have a 50 inch NEC plasma. For me the problem was not the quality of comcasts HD but the quantity. IN this DMA you will get far fewer stations with Comcast. My opinion is that comcast has not overly compressed the HD stations here, because they do not need to (with so few stations). In the majority of the Bay Areas where the "World of More HD" is coming out there a lot of complaints about quality. Dish HD is good to very good depending on the station, etc.
IN short, I would not be overly concerned about what company has the best HD quality but which one has the station that I want most... thats my two cents worth

Well, I ended up going with DirecTV and I am pretty satisfied with it. Now, is there any possibility to watch next year's Super Bowl in HD in the Monterey area (while at home, I mean)?

Don't shoot the messenger. Dish Network offers the local Monterey channels in glorious HD while we continue to wait (and wait, and wait, and wait, and...) for DirecTV to deliver their promised HD superiority.

I think our minimal Dish package, solely to get those locals, runs about $30 a month.