Currently we are receiving KSBW8 (NBC) on digital 10. We also receive KNTV11 from San Jose, but this is also NBC. CBS and FOX will begin there digital broadcasts from the same tower in Salinas in mid February (estimated).

Hello Seth,

I also live in Santa Cruz area (Bonny Doon) and I'm currently getting the following HD stations: KNTV 11.1 (NBC), KCBA-DT 35.1 (FOX), and KION-DT (CBS) 46.1. However, I'm unable to get any Program Information. Do you have the same problem? BTW, I'm using a new LG 3100A HDTV receiver. So, this could be the problem. Also, do you know when ABC and PBS plan to begin transmitting?

Thanks, Rick

I live in Monterey County and receive the KCBA (FOX), KION (CBS), KSBW (NBC), and KNTV (NBC) also without channel info. I am using the Zenith HD-SAT520 which is the older cousin of the LG box.

I have queried KGO (ABC) on numerous occasions to find out if they are going to cover our area OTA for HD. No response.

I stopped by the Comcast office last weekend. I was told that HD is scheduled for the start of the year (2005). They also said that a HD DVR will be available on launch.

Official Monterey-Salinas, CA thread.

I'm about to get an HDTV with an OTA tuner and would be interested in others reception experience in the Pacific Grove area.

I'm in Aptos and installed an Off-Air antenna on my dish, but am getting horrible reception.

Any advice on a good antenna? I'm running it through the Dish 921 HD DVR.

Thanks.

I'm using a Radio Shack 1880 indoor amplified antenna and get FOX, NBC and CBS. I have a Sony 955 TV with a built in HDTV receiver.

I have a 955 as well, but wanted to be able to record off-air, so I ran the antenna line through my 921. I don't think an indoor would work where I am. I have an antenna on my roof right now and I'm not getting much.

Have you gone to antennaweb.org and plugged your zip code in to see what channels you should be able to receive? It will also give some advice on antennas. I am in Salinas and have a humongous Winegard on my roof, with a Channel Master 7777 pre-amp on the mast. I get the local FOX, NBC, CBS, UNI, and can receive KNTV if I rotate my antenna. Which I don't, since I would never watch it.

Jerry

I'm in Santa Cruz by the harbor. After finding out the hard way that Terk's products are useless, I went to Radio Shack in Scotts Valley and picked up the 15-2185. It's a foot wide disc with foot long wings on either side. It picks up all our locals while mounted under the eaves. It doesn't seem to like moisture on it, which I found out the first foggy night I had it left in the open. Short of roof mounting a larger antenna this is the best setup I've tried. In talking with KCBA's tech, it became clear that Santa Cruz is just on the edge if not out of their OTA range. That seemed odd to me, but it might explain why OTA reception is a black art around here.

I think we're SOL on an any OTA from KGO. I'm waiting for DirecTV to get around to adding ABC-West in HD, as we automaticaly get a national ABC feed due to KGO not transmitting here.

KCAH-DT, the sister station of KTEH is building a transmitter at Fremont Peak according to the FCC website. That should mean we'll get an HD PBS feed in the next year.

We face the Bay up the hill adjacent Branciforte. Clear shot to Monterey but a mountain of trees facing the transmitters for FOX and NBC.

I have a Winegard SquareShooter for ch 46/32-1 , and a Winegard YA-6713 high band VHF yagi to bring in 8/10-1 and 35/13-1 for those two networks. Of course the two antenna are not in the same direction and in particular, 35/13-1 is a feeble signal. I combine them with a Channel Master 7777 combiner/pre-amp.

On an HD-Tivo OTA tuner I am getting 95 for 46/32-1 , 90 for 8/10-1 and 75 for 35/31-1.

I can get the Ch 35/13-1 to drop as much as ten points with a one inch move of the antenna. Insane.

Ch 11/21-1 from Loma Prieta is almost 90 degrees off and although only 14 miles away would require yet another antenna (no thanks on a rotor) to tune, though it is a powerful signal. I have read this channel, formerly ABC to old timers - we watched our first season of MNF and the first Super Bowl transmitted in HD from this location- is in negotiation to move out of the area to better serve the Penninsula. So anyone wishing to retain NBC on our side of the hill should concentrate on receiving 8/10-1.

Don't hold your breath about getting ABC in HD off Direct anytime soon. They are pushing back hugely to prevent national HD feeds from appearing on satellites to protect the local affiliates. Don't you think Direct TV would be showcasing MNF if they could?

You want ABC in HD, you need to go with Express Vu. PM me if you seek details.

regards,

patrick

I want to get all the Local Chanells In HD what do i need??

You want ABC and FOX in HD

I have tried in PMs to explain that there is no ABC broadcast over the air in HD or even standard. There is FOX, but it is low powered and broadcasting on channel 13 to send out the HDTV signal. It is on Fremont peak, use a compass and find 103 degrees - that is the direction of FOX and NBC. CBS is at 127 degrees on channel 32. There is no ABC, analog or digital, in our area.

You asked if a tall antenna could possibly pick up channel 7 from SF? Not a chance. In addition, the HD feed of channel 7 is NOT broadcast on channel 7, but is actually sent out on UHF channel 24. UHF must have line of sight to work and 24 is UHF.

Go back to the antennaweb.org site, and after you enter your location info, click on "show digital stations" to eliminate all the BS channels and show you the HD channels you may be able to receive. It's a pretty short list.

Also remember this, the HDTV channels are not the same as the analog channels you have been using to receive analog TV for a given channel, like perhaps 7 from SF. That's the way they implemented HDTV, it's called "remapping" and it is what happened all over the country. Confusing as heck? Yes.

Then you'll start to see what I have been unable to make clear.

patrick

anybody know what is going on with kcba. this is the second week in a row with no hd football

I wonder if Comcast (AT&T, whatever they're known as this week) will import KGO-DT in HD to the Monterey/Salinas/Santa Cruz market.

As far as I know, they're still importing the analog Channel 7 - and rebranding it "ABC 7" as a cable feed, which basically means they put their own ID slides and insert local advertising. I believe Comcast/KGO also has to pre-empt some syndicated programming, because of market rights to such programming belonging to other stations in the Monterey Bay market.

This - and DirecTV's upcoming satellite launch to deliver HD locals, eventually - is the only way you'll ever see high definition ABC feeds in the "other" Bay Area.

KCAH-DT IS UP ON CH 58. GOT A SIGNAL STRENGTH OF 91 IN LIVE OAK BUT STILL GETTING SOME DROPOUTS

Nice! I'll have to check out 58 in the morning. As for ABC, DirecTV should be rolling out ABC-HD very soon. We're in a white area here in the Monterey Bay, and I already get ABC-W from them due to distant network status.

I'm in Live Oak too, Jason.

Hey, just bought a philips 55" hdtv monitor from costco last week. Having fun with 480p dvd until I can purchase an HD Directivo, (or is that worth it?). I really only care about Fox and NBC HDTV, and I have a line of site to fremont peak from my roof. (need to hire someone-fear of heights)

I've been thinking about building a simple DVR (for OTA HDTV). I haven't done any leg work on finding who makes the best card, etc, as I only want to spend say $500. This would also allow me .

I currently have a Directivo hooked up to it, but I am itching to get some HD fox and NBC programming (thrid watch, er, arrested development, OC?, north shore?) And ideally ABC in the future. does dtv have a ABC HD signal yet?

Realistically i will probably just hold out and get a HD Directivo eventually.

As of Jan 1st DirecTV is broadcastng ABC West HD, and it looks great. Because we are in both a digital and analog white area, we can get Distant Network Service. Call up DTV and have them turn it on for you if you get their HD package.

As for the HD Tivo, you might want to wait. They announced this week that they will be offering HD locals in the next year or so, but to do so are switching to MPEG 4 from MPEG2for all HD. Current equipment, ie the HD Tivo won't be able to decode it. You might want to get a standard HD box like the Hughes HTL-HD that can do OTA, Sat and Cable inputs. D* will no doubt give you a rebate when new equipment is needed.

we are lucky to have locals, for god sakes were on a sat that you need a wide dish for. It will be a long time before we see our locals in HD, and crap what do i care about watching jodi jones in HD, tho it might be nice.

Is your fox station (i believe KCBA) broadcasting in HD? If it is, please tell cpanther95 that if it is so that he can add your dma to the list of markets broadcasting in HD. Thank you.

Yes, KCBA is broadcasting in 720p and dd5.1 and i added it to the list

I live in Aptos next to Cabrillo College. I have a line of site view across the bay to Monterey. I've been waiting for Comcast to offer HDTV over cable.

I was also interested in VOOM, but its not clear whether they will be in business. Besides DirectTV, any other recommendations for HDTV?

Thanks
Dave

You are only out a dollar if you get voom and it goes under with the promo they are running right now. plus you would end up with a free antenna. I have had it for about a year and really like it. The only problem is no abc. Plus the sd picture quality is really good.

I'd go over to Radio Shack and pick up an antenna. If it doesn't work, you can take it back. I'm in Live Oak and get Fox, 2 NBCs (KSBW & KNTV), and CBS. I get ABC-HD from DirecTV.

I was surprised to discover that a few HD channels are now available on the Monterey, Seaside, Carmel and Carmel Valley System. I am currently receiving channel 702 (KCBA-DT) and 736 (Showtime-HD) using Comcasts supplied DCT5100 HD receiver on my Standard Cable subsciption.

Additional HD channels IND1, IND2 and ESPN-Hd are available on tjhe Digital Classic tier as well as HBO-HD, Cinemax-HD and Starz-HD on Premium Services whatever that is.

Comcast's office in Monterey personnel stated that they expected addition HD channel availability in March along with the dual tuner HD PVR.

HD receiver setup was easy. The receiver defaulted to 1080i and comes supplied with every imaginable cable including an optical auduio cable.

All in all a good value for $5 per month assuming we get some more network channels. It will be interesting to see how they handle KGO-DT.

I'm happy to report that I can receive FOX35-HD from Comcast in West-side Santa Cruz. I have a cabe-card ready plasma (panasonic) and I can get the channel at RF 28-2 (no cablecard needed).
I have not been able to find any other HD channel.
Just so you know.
M.-

Thanks marcelo. Does anyone know when Comcast plans to give us ABC in HD? It's the only channel I can't get OTA in Pacific Grove. Since VOOM is shutting down any day now I am really in a jam as to who to go to.

I asked them over the phone and they did not know what HD was :/

I asked via e-mail and got a great response. Here is what they said:
Thank you for contacting Comcast.
Comcast is committed to deploying HDTV service. We are working to provide as many high definition channel broadcasters as possible. Here are some of the factors involved with expanding our high definition lineup:

-the negotiation and contract process required to obtain the rights to carry a specific high definition broadcast, such as ABC-HD

-the increased bandwidth resources which are required

-the relatively low number of subscribers (currently only a small minority of customers have high definition compatible television sets)

We will continue to explore additional HD programming opportunities as more content providers make plans to offer their programming in HD format.

We appreciate the fact that you took the time to let us know what is important to you. We hope to expand our high definition channel lineup as fast as we can. Unfortunately we are unable to provide specific details regarding the launch of new channels at this time, please keep an eye on your monthly billing statement as the announcement of any channel additions will appear on those statements.


Thank you for choosing Comcast.


Maybe you should drop a line to vidsupport_bay@cable.comcast.com to let them know that there is more people interested that what they think.

M.-

Santa Cruz gets an expanded HD lineup May 2.

Monterey has most of the cable networks - the ABCBSNCB networks soon.

The Monterey area Garden Road Comcast office confirms that May 2 is the rollout date for KGO-DT, KION-DT and KBSW-DT. These new HD channels will join the existing KCBA-DT channel on the approx. Limited Basic tier. This will enable Monterey, Carmel, Pacfic Grove and Seaside HD-Ready set owners to get 'with the program' so to speak.

For those that are paying for Digital Classic (at approx. $10/month over Expanded Basic tier) the HD ready set owners here will also see INHD1, INHD2 and ESPNHD. Again with the installation of Comcasts HD set-top-box at $5/month or a Cable Card.

The office reps also said that the HD DVR is expected to be available here in the summer because "of some more network buildout work that remains". That sounds lame to me. They also claim that PBS is a possibility in near future.

They also stated that the latest digital rebuild in Monterey area get us to a 850 MHz system... So they say.

This gets Comcast to 11 HD channels... The only problem is that I have to drive down to Garden Road to get this info. The Morgan Hill Reps seem to be in the dark regarding HD. The info I get from them is consistently wrong.

That is great news. Thanks wheaton.

I rescanned and got:

RF 28-2 KCBA (FOX)
RF 28-3 KION (CBS)
RF 90-1 KSBW (NBC)

Does anyone get any other HD channel? If so, at what RF channel?

M.-

Does anybody know if Comcast got the new HD channels working on May 2... and if so what channels are they?

I don't know abou Monterey, but in Santa Cruz it did.
I get
NBC x 2,
CBS,
ABC,
PBS

I'm very happy.
M.-

ABC in HD! Can someone please let me know if this is going on in Monterey?

This just after I took Echostar up on their VOOM offer.

No ABC, No PBS. Not yet at least.

FOX, NBC, CBS INHD, ESPN, HBO, Show, etc.

Many thanks to everyone at Comcast Monterey that contributed in getting the "system" updated to 850Mhz and the local network affiliates channels digital feed on-line. HD, HD-PVR's and VOD will do more to recapture DBS viewers than money wasted on disparaging "dish" with TV advertisements.

The picture quality is excellent... now we need ABC and KQED-PBS.

So, can I get an update on what HD stations Comcast Santa Cruz has? I know they've been mentioned, but I'm wondering what's available now. Comcast website is useless.

Oh, and what about the cable box? what type of outputs does it have? hdmi? do they offer an hd dvr yet?

thanks,
Eric

Website looks accurate to me:

ESPN HD - Channel 723
INHD - Channel 719
INHD2 - Channel 720
Fox Sports Network Bay Area – Click for schedule of games
KGO (ABC) - Channel 707
KNTV (NBC) - Channel 703
KPIX (CBS) - Channel 705
KRON4 HD featuring HDNet– Channel 704
Discovery HD Theater - 722
KQED (PBS) - Channel 709

HDTV Premium movie channels*
HBO – Channel 730
Showtime – Channel 736
Cinemax - Channel 732
Starz! - Channel 734

Dual Tuner HD DVR is available. DCT6412, has DVI and the rest of the normal outputs.

i see some people on this thread in santa cruz getting kgo-dt?!

i tried to enter 707 but it won't come in. i just got comcast dtv last week.
when i hit up the website it doesn't list it either.

i really need monday night football!!!
:)

thanks for any help.
i live in ben lomond, if that helps.
thanks.
-r

Website looks accurate to me:

ESPN HD - Channel 723
INHD - Channel 719
INHD2 - Channel 720
Fox Sports Network Bay Area – Click for schedule of games
KGO (ABC) - Channel 707
KNTV (NBC) - Channel 703
KPIX (CBS) - Channel 705
KRON4 HD featuring HDNet– Channel 704
Discovery HD Theater - 722
KQED (PBS) - Channel 709

HDTV Premium movie channels*
HBO – Channel 730
Showtime – Channel 736
Cinemax - Channel 732
Starz! - Channel 734

Dual Tuner HD DVR is available. DCT6412, has DVI and the rest of the normal outputs.


HMM, I just ordered and they said an HD-DVR isn't available. I have a hd cable box on the way. Can you confirm that you're in Santa Cruz and you have a HD-DVR, with all those channels?

thanks
Eric

My digital TV saga begins with my purchase of a Samsung SIR TS-160 HD receiver off eBay. I bought it to see what digital TV was all about and was hoping to be able to receive the San Francisco area digital TV signals despite being told by all the "experts" that digital reception from San Francisco was not possible in this area because of the distance and intervening terrain.

When I got the receiver, I hooked it up to my existing Winegard Chromstar 8200 rooftop antenna with a Winegard preamp. I had always been able to receive good reception of the San Francisco analog signals so I thought I had a good chance at getting the digitals.

This was not to be the case. I was only able to receive the six local digital channels, KSBW-8, KNTV-11, KCBA-35, KCAH-25, KION-46 and the local Univision channel 67 which was 31 digital. One time I did receive digital channels 7 and 38 from SF but this was just a fluke due to favorable atmospheric conditions and was not reliable.

After much research on the internet, I decided to try another antenna which had been favorably reviewed and was described as the highest gain UHF antenna available, the XG-91 from antennasdirect.com. I also bought a new preamp, the Channel Master 7777.

What a difference! After installing the new antenna, I am now able to get all the digital stations in the Monterey and San Francisco bay areas. A list of the channels and comments follow:

2.1 - KTVU - Fox San Francisco - HD Broadcasts Dolby Digital (DD) most of the time
4.1 - KRON - Ind. San Francisco - SD; No Dolby Digital
4.2 - HD-NET - Full-time HD content - No Dolby Digital
5.1 - KPIX - CBS San Francisco - Dolby Digital on some primetime shows
7.1 - KGO - ABC San Francisco - " " " " " "
7.2 - KGO - Reruns of prior shows (mostly news)
7.3 - KGO - AccuWeather - Full-time weather channel
8.1 - KSBW - NBC - Salinas - No Dolby Digital
8.2 - KSBW - WeatherPlus - Full-time weather channel
9.1 - KQED - PBS - HD only after 8PM; off-air during the day; DD on some shows
9.2 - KQED - PBS - Encore channel shows reruns, No DD
9.3 - KQED - PBS - World channel shows news and documentaries
9.4 - KQED - PBS - Life channel - Cooking and home improvment; off-air after 8PM
9.5 - KQED - PBS - Kids channed - Cartoons and children's shows
11.1 - KNTV - NBC - San Francisco - DD on some primetime shows
11.2 - KNTV - WeatherPlus - Full-time weather channel
14.1 - KDTV - Univision - San Francisco - Spanish programming; No DD
20.1 - KBWB - WB - San Francisco
25.1 - KCAH - PBS - Watsonville - Simulcast of KTEH-54; No DD
26.1 - KTSF - San Francisco - Asian programming; No DD
31.1 - KSMS - Univision Monterey - Spanish programming
31.2 - KCU - Telefutura Salinas - Spanish programming
32.1 - KMTP - Ind. San Francisco -
35.1 - KCBA - Fox Salinas - DD on some primetime programs
36.1 - KICU - Ind. San Jose - No DD
38.1 - KCNS - Ind. San Francisco - Shopping channel
43.1 - KCSM - PBS San Mateo - Weak signal; rarely comes in
43.2 - KCSM - Jazz TV - San Mateo - " " " " "
44.1 - KBHK - UPN San Francisco - No DD
46.1 - KION - CBS Monterey - No DD
48.1 - KSTS - Telemundo San Jose - Spanish programming
65.1 - KKPX - PAX San Francisco - No DD
65.2 - KKPX - PAX East
65.3 - Worship Channel - Religious programming
65.4 - Faith Channel - Religious programming
66.1 - KFSF - Telefutura San Francisco - Spanish programming
66.2 - Simulcast of KDTV - Univision - Spanish programming
68.1 - KTLN - Novato - Religous programming; most distant digital channel I receive

Reception of the San Francisco digital channels is possible in our area but I don't know of anyone else in the Monterey area that has done it. Maybe my story will inspire others to try.

HMM, I just ordered and they said an HD-DVR isn't available. I have a hd cable box on the way. Can you confirm that you're in Santa Cruz and you have a HD-DVR, with all those channels?

thanks
Eric

I know in a very personal way.I can tell you exactly how many are in stock, if you wanted.

Go to the service center downtown or Scotts Valley. They have them.

I know in a very personal way.I can tell you exactly how many are in stock, if you wanted.

Go to the service center downtown or Scotts Valley. They have them.


really? why'd the lady tell me they're not offering dvr? weird.

Reception of the San Francisco digital channels is possible in our area but I don't know of anyone else in the Monterey area that has done it. Maybe my story will inspire others to try.

Depends on the location. New Monterey and parts of PG can get good off air reception. I used to get 2, 4, & 5 on a rabbit ear when I lived on Eardley.

Website looks accurate to me:

ESPN HD - Channel 723
INHD - Channel 719
INHD2 - Channel 720
Fox Sports Network Bay Area – Click for schedule of games
KGO (ABC) - Channel 707
KNTV (NBC) - Channel 703
KPIX (CBS) - Channel 705
KRON4 HD featuring HDNet– Channel 704
Discovery HD Theater - 722
KQED (PBS) - Channel 709

HDTV Premium movie channels*
HBO – Channel 730
Showtime – Channel 736
Cinemax - Channel 732
Starz! - Channel 734

Dual Tuner HD DVR is available. DCT6412, has DVI and the rest of the normal outputs.


I saw this listing the other day when I was checking out TitanTV, however, this is what I'm getting here in the Pleasure Point/East Side of Santa Cruz:

702 - Fox
705 - NBC
706 - CBS
709 - KQED
722 - Discovery
723 - ESPN
730 - HBO

I really hope we get ABC in place by the time football season starts.

They have many dvr's.
I got mine in the santa cruz location (near tony and alba's on soquel).

I get that smaller list of HD stations listed in the previous post.
I hope KGO gets added soon.

I called around about it and it actually sounds like the city of Santa Cruz somehow mandates what channels are picked up by comcast. Oddly, we may need to call some county offices to figure out why. That should be quick and efficient. :)

-r

I hooked up a new plasma with a built in QAM tuner for a friend in Scotts Valley a few weeks ago and they recieved KGO-dt. They got the hd and sd digital channels along with the analog one. they also recieved KNTV-dt and the weather station. Comcast came a couple of days later and installed a cablecard and they no longer recieve them.

Hello,

Thanks all for helpful information in this forum. I will be moving to santa cruz next month and thought the move would be a good time to go digital. So I will be getting a digital dvr at some point (hd, i suppose). I'm a little confused about the discussions of what channels people can "get". I know the air-broadcasts are going to be variable, but what is the deal with cable? I understand Comcast is the provider for the area. So if I have my own digital box, what is the cable service that I need to order when I move to the area?

1) nothing ordered - does digital cable or HD cable just "leak through"
2) very basic analog cable
3) extended basic cable
4) digital cable
5) digital cable + HD (is this a service you are paying for or just the rental of the HD decoder)?

So the question is, I have a digital/HD box -- which package do I order? If I order digital cable, do I have to use their supplied box or can I use my own and still get the same channels? Do I have to order digital cable at all, or will some channels just come through anyway? What about HD?

Thanks in advance...I'm just starting to learn all this on my own. My plan is to get there and try stuff out, but if someone has a good setup strategy already, that would be great.

So the question is, I have a digital/HD box --

What kind of digital box do you have that you own?

I'm unsure as to what I should get -- I will either be going with a computer based pvr (the Elgato EyeTV 500 DTV/HDTV option for mac) or Motorola DCT6412 Dual-Tuner HD-DVR. They will essentially serve the same function of being able to receive digital tv or HDTV over cable (or air in the case of the eyetv). If I were to then subscribe to digital cable, the cable company will be trying to shove their digital box on me, but I want to use my own dvr. Will comcast encrypt such that you have to use their tuner?

I'm unsure as to what I should get -- I will either be going with a computer based pvr (the Elgato EyeTV 500 DTV/HDTV option for mac) or Motorola DCT6412 Dual-Tuner HD-DVR. They will essentially serve the same function of being able to receive digital tv or HDTV over cable (or air in the case of the eyetv). If I were to then subscribe to digital cable, the cable company will be trying to shove their digital box on me, but I want to use my own dvr. Will comcast encrypt such that you have to use their tuner?

The computer based PVR setup will only grab 'in the clear' content. No HBO or other such subscription channels, unless they have one that has CableCard to authorize it.

Have not heard of any customer owned Motorola 6412s being authorized.

I saw this listing the other day when I was checking out TitanTV, however, this is what I'm getting here in the Pleasure Point/East Side of Santa Cruz:

702 - Fox
705 - NBC
706 - CBS
709 - KQED
722 - Discovery
723 - ESPN
730 - HBO

I really hope we get ABC in place by the time football season starts.

Same here. I have to see my Raiders take on the Patsies in HD! Although I doubt it will be here by next week.

Barovelli, any word on when ABC-HD might arrive?

i was told by abc and comcast that it's up to our county offices to approve kgo hd for santa cruz.

it sounds odd, but i haven't been able to find out much.
-r

FWIW, and YMMV, I was in the Scotts Valley head end office yesterday paying my bill and inquired about the ABC feed. I was told that they were still waiting for the fiber ring build out (?) before we'd see it here. No dates or further detail were disseminated....

fiber ring buildouts on the thermalthrottle to boost sigma values over 225RQMs are never quick.
bummer.
-r

well, my computer hdtv receiver gets the fox,cbs,nbc dtv/hdtv channels. it also gets espn hd, but not discovery hd. any word on how/why that is? does comcast santa cruz (based in scotts valley?) encrypt disc but not espn? or is my signal reception at fault?

also, there are a bunch of music channels. at the bottom of the list, i see two named channels: "kgo hdtv" and "kgo news ch" but neither one actually gets any feed. is this abc in the works? or do other people already get abc and somehow my receiver doesn't?

thx

You guys can call me crazy but i swear to god KGO and KNTV is up on the system, at least in scotts valley. Im sure we will not get ABC until comcast is able to insert local adds in to the their hd channel

In Morgan Hill,

I receive KCBA-DT (FOX), KSBW-DT (NBC), and KCAH-DT (PBS)

Is anyone in this area able to pick up more than this, I am currently using, a
radio shack amplified indoor antenna, pointing south by window. I am pretty
much receiving what the antennaweb indicates. Almost poked my eye out
trying to assemble a CM3020, and this thing didn't get anything. So what
options do I have to increase my dtv content. I really like to get the KION
CBS, when are they going to go full power. Anyone care share the Morgan
Hill dtv options recommendations?

thanks

what do you mean it's up on the system?
thanks,
-r

Sorry have not checked the site in a while. with the tv's built in QAM tuner it recieved KNTV and KGO both of which we do not get with the comcast box. This was in scotts valley a couple of blocks from the head end if that means anything. No there was not an antenna hooked up. got 3 KGO channels. If anyone has a tv with a tuner try it. I never understood how we would have to wait for the fiber ring to be extended to Santa Cruz to receive ABC when we recieve pbs from the same location.

when i was going through the "HD" listings on titantv.com for comcast of santa cruz, i noticed they mentioned channel 400 as sending HD sports at times.

it's officially listed as "comcast sports net."
has anyone seen if it actually does give HD when it says it would?

i wonder how many of you are using the new 6412 box, too. i heard sd channels supposedly look better.

thanks,
-r

The second round of digital channel selections is now complete. All stations in the San Francisco-Sacramento-Salinas-Monterey area have made their final channel selection, so we have updated our Digital/HDTV Channel Listing to show the latest information.

Included are two lists:

One that shows Present Digital and Analog Channel, PSIP designation, Final Channel, Call Letters, Network, City of License, Transmitter Location and various notes.

A second list that shows "Digital Channels After Analog Shutdown", indicating all of the proposed final assignments. Not all have been approved by the FCC, so there might be a few minor changes forthcoming if there are interference conflicts.

You can check it all out at:
http://www.choisser.com/sfonair.html

Larry
SF

Does anyone know if KGO ABC will ever put a tower in Monterey County or any plans to? We have Charter Cable down here in Soledad but they don't have any HDTV here yet.

FYI:

For all those Comcast HD users in Santa Cruz, Comcast will be airing the Superbowl in HD on channel 707. Apparently it's only for one day which really makes me question why we don't get the ABC HD feed as part of the package, but at least we'll be able to watch the game in HD!!

i know... in some ways it's almost more frustrating to see it for only a day than not at all.

oddly enough, it truly is the local kgo feed so whatever they were saying about the "fiber ring build out" is moot. obviously the infrastructure is in place to make this happen. also, if the county is stopping it (which i was also told by comcast) then i seriously doubt they would have some legal provision "for the super bowl."

anyway, it's on now (saturday) and when i go through the program guide, it's showing as available indefinitely.

i hope they make this channel stick. i would love to watch the NBA in hd finally.

i would also like to know when they will add more hd stations, it's about time they do, imo.

-r

I live in the live oak area of santa cruz, and just bought a 50" SXRD Sony LCD Projection, I came home and plugged in my BASIC COMCAST CABLE, and I am getting all of the Local HD Channels that one would recieve with OTA. I don't understand it, when I bought my TV I also bought a TERK OTA HD dish, but It looks like I can return it! I get ABC, FOX, NBC, CBS, as well as some channels I never had before like movieplex and a few other 480p or higher channels! I guess it finally paid to stick with basic cable? Has anyone else been able to get these channels through their cable?

yep. I've got a panasonic with a QAM tuner and I was getting the basic HD channels over the cable before comcast actually starting renting hd boxes. I even got HBO in HD sporadically, and this was all with just a basic cable subscription, not even the digital cable.

one little gotcha. if you do use the comcast digital box, you won't get ABC in HD. that was a bummer when I got the digital package with motorala DVR. they told me at the local comcast office that they were still working out a deal with ABC. I still get ABC in HD when I switch back to my built-in tuner, but I can't view or record it on the DVR. luckily they did add it to the digital lineup for superbowl sunday so I could record and use the instant replay features. it's gone now though.

VOD relelased in Monterey/Salinas today

Only need a digital cable box.

Finally!!

VOD relelased in Monterey/Salinas today

Only need a digital cable box.

Finally!!

now if only I could get ABC :(

Don't know if you guys notice or know NBC KSBW has thire weather plus DTV channel up and running on 8-2 good info on local weather 24/7

Does anyone know what channel 27-7 Arizis? I just did a rescan today and that channel pop up?

Stony...

can I ask what channel ABC HD comes in on? I live over in the Pleasure point area and can't pick it up when hooked up to the comcast feed. I do get an ABC but it is so pixelated that I can't watch it. What tuner are you using? I bought the Samsung T-451 in a vain attempt to pick up ABC HD (Need to be able to watch the Worlc Cup on it!)

thx
Tony

Does anyone know what channel 27-7 Arizis? I just did a rescan today and that channel pop up?

It is KCBA Fox 35. Someone made a mistake at the station and sent the wrong PSIP information which caused your receiver to think it was a new channel. It has happened a couple of times now. Just delete it.

I live in the Peninsula. With standard cable I can't pick up the above stations. I would have thought I could. Am I doing something wrong?

You can't receive the San Francisco digital stations via cable. You need a good antenna with preamp and a favorable location like PG, New Monterey, Hidden Hills or some areas in upper Pebble Beach.

i am in the sc mtns (ben lomond) and i've had comcast now for over a year. i'm about to lose it, though, based on lack of hd additions. it looks like everyone else gets inhd or kgo near us. santa cruz comcast packages are weak.

has anyone heard of anything new on the horizon? if not, i am seriously thinking about switching.

thanks.
-r

Last week, KION 46 came in great, over the air
This week, no signal at all. What's up with that?
-------
Found out...


John:

Thanks for your email. We had a part fail on us late last week. We
ordered new parts which arrived on Friday, unfortunately they too were
not operational. Our engineering department is currently working on
the
problem and hope to have a working part in hand no later then
tomorrow.
Hopefully we will be back and operational by tomorrow night.

---------------
I'm using a Radio Shack VU-190XR.
I used the transmitter directions found in antennaweb-org
I get KCBA, KTCH and KSBW just fine -- excellent digital signal.
I tuned in KION analog and moved the antenna to get the
best receiption from that direction (its within a few degrees
of the antennaweb compass direction).

Thanks for all the great post!

I've been HD for a year. I've got a Sony KDF50-A10 and a Winegard 'wing' antenna. I get:

8.1 - great signal
8.2 - great signal
25.1 - very good signal
31.1 - very good signal
31.2 - very good signal
35.1 - great signal
46.1 - great signal
46.2- great signal

I watch some great football and other great evening show on these channels but got tired of the hit and miss of the 'who cares' over the air broadcast. I mean, I don't think these guys care if the HD signals are broadcasting OTA or not. Seriously, I quote JZWiebel's post "We had a part fail on us late last week. We ordered new parts which arrived on Friday, unfortunately they too were not operational." If I gave that response at work I'd be reprimanded, or fired. Whatever happpend to redundancy?

Moreover, cause I wanted to watch the World Cup, but can't get ABC, and I wanted to watch the Tour de France, but can't get OLN: I got E*'s HD Gold Package for a great into price with their Vip622 receiver. Great package! Bad customer service!!!! Do your research before you order!!!

BaconMan: you get all of Comcast's HD and more with the Gold package! Check it out.

I'm not rich and I have a room mate that splits the cost, sweet! (plus she's cute! ) but if you've paid good money for an HD TV I'd get a good HD service.

BTW, I live in Prunedale and have a good northern view. Do you think I could reach the famed Sutro Tower with a better antena. Anyone got the right antenna for sale???

Chad...

Sony KDF50 A10
E* HD Gold w/Vip622 receiver
Winegard (I forgot the model) wing antenna

[QUOTE=HungJury]Thanks for all the great post!

I've been HD for a year. I've got a Sony KDF50-A10 and a Winegard 'wing' antenna. I get:

8.1 - great signal
8.2 - great signal
25.1 - very good signal
31.1 - very good signal
31.2 - very good signal
35.1 - great signal
46.1 - great signal
46.2- great signal

I watch some great football and other great evening show on these channels but got tired of the hit and miss of the 'who cares' over the air broadcast. I mean, I don't think these guys care if the HD signals are broadcasting OTA or not. Seriously, I quote JZWiebel's post "We had a part fail on us late last week. We ordered new parts which arrived on Friday, unfortunately they too were not operational." If I gave that response at work I'd be reprimanded, or fired. Whatever happpend to redundancy?

Moreover, cause I wanted to watch the World Cup, but can't get ABC, and I wanted to watch the Tour de France, but can't get OLN: I got E*'s HD Gold Package for a great into price with their Vip622 receiver. Great package! Bad customer service!!!! Do your research before you order!!!
.....

BTW, I live in Prunedale and have a good northern view. Do you think I could reach the famed Sutro Tower with a better antena. Anyone got the right antenna for sale???

Chad...Chad,

See PGDave's earlier post in this thread on receiving SF stations OTA.

Seems like you would have a decent shot at receiving SF stations since you are closer to Sutro than PGDave is.

As for ABC in HD, if you are able to get SF OTA then you will be all set. If not, the other option would be to go with Directv, if you are in the Monterey Salinas DMA they will give you KGO (SF ABC Afiiliate) in SD, and upon request they will give you the LA ABC Affiliate in HD. Actually, Dish network *may* be able to give you the same stations, don't know for sure since I'm a D* customer.

If you decide to try for the SF OTA locals, please post your experiences as others here will probably be interested in your results.

My Ch46 reception is back up.

I set my antenna to 101deg magnetic.
There is a 14deg East declination in Santa Cruz and it appears that
the directions in the table below (from antennaweb-org) are in relation
to true North. So, I'm "to the right" of the Channel8 signal and "to the left"
of the ch46 channel.

The signal rank is from my TV which can be "bad, normal, or good".
As with all digital, if its there, its there so I can't see the difference on the scrren.
But my experience is that if its just above the borderline between bad and normal,
then reception will be very reliable. I am able to receive "high bad" stations, but
I guess I don't care any more. :-)

(And why don't the spanish stations have an English SAP? Some of
their shows look pretty good. ;-)

Digital Stations
-----------------
KSBW-DT 8.1 101° 30.9 10 low good
KCAH 25 PBS 101° 30.9 25 good
KSMS-DT 31.1 49° 14.6 31 borderline normal
KCBA-DT 35.1 101° 30.9 13 excellent
KION-DT 46.1 129° 36.1 32 low good

And I meant to thank Eric at Channel 46 (KION).
Without his help I would not have tried to get 46 back again.

I am having a hard time getting KSBW8.1 or KSBW 8.2 OTA.

Currently I am using a WineGuard SS100 Antenna on a second story on the West Side of Santa Cruz - No Major Obstructions, just a few trees blocks away.

I receive 35.1, 46.1, 46.2, 25.1 and the various spanish stations just fine.

35.1 and 8.1 should be at the same location - so I would think that if I can receive 35.1 in OTA HD I should be golden with 8.1 KSBW.

Any tricks I can try with the antenna?
My Set top box is a Hughes HDHTL DirectTV Box

Now that Football is on NBC I need my HDTV for NBC...

The STB shouldn't have anything to do with it.

FWIW: When Ch46 went down a few weeks ago, I tried to adjust my antenna to find it.
I had moved it maybe 10deg. I was getting the other stations just fine. I had to get an email from an engineer at 46 to get a clue that it was back up again. I then adjusted my antenna again by 5 deg and there it was.

I have a Radio Shack VU-120 XR. I had orignally purchased a Terk (you want it?) and
it initially got all the stations just fine. But then after a couple of weeks, channel 8 disappeared.
(its "red" on the antennaweb[dot]org site) the Radio shack antenna is one step up from that, blue. I couldn't do anything to get ch8 back with the Terk.

I also found that if I used the antennaweb directions, that I had to subtract the 14deg of magnetic declination to get the ch46 signal (meaning it points about 105deg, or a compromise between ch46 and ch8.

I am having a hard time getting KSBW8.1 or KSBW 8.2 OTA.

Currently I am using a WineGuard SS100 Antenna on a second story on the West Side of Santa Cruz - No Major Obstructions, just a few trees blocks away.

I receive 35.1, 46.1, 46.2, 25.1 and the various spanish stations just fine.

35.1 and 8.1 should be at the same location - so I would think that if I can receive 35.1 in OTA HD I should be golden with 8.1 KSBW.

Any tricks I can try with the antenna?
My Set top box is a Hughes HDHTL DirectTV Box

Now that Football is on NBC I need my HDTV for NBC...

Montl, I feel your pain.

I live near Laguna Seca, and I have recently been trying to find an optimal position for my Channelmaster 4228. I'm getting a strong signal for KION 46-1 (9 mi away), and I can also get a reasonably strong signal for 35-1. But I'm having trouble with KSBW. I have found 1 location where I can receive KSBW with a reasonably strong signal, but then I lose 35-1. Weird since KSBW and 35-1 transmit from the same location.

I realize that KSBW is high band VHF, whereas the others are UHF. But I purchased the CM 4228 antenna specifically because it was a UHF antenna with high gain for high band VHF.

Interestingly, I can only receive KSBW when the antenna is positioned in a relatively low position (level with the eave line on the first story of the house). Raising the antenna in the same location improves the UHF reception but kills off KSBW.

I haven't given up and am trying more locations to see if I can receive everything from 1 antenna location....

Thanks for the suggestions - I am going to try moving the antenna again this weekend. I was talking with a RF expert and he told me that channels 8.1 and 35.1 being ~100mhz apart could be part of the problem - and he suggested that I move my antenna facing Fremont peak and then tilt or rotate it to try to pull back in 46.1 - we will see, I am a bit frustrated but that is part of the game. My adjustments so far have been very minor and usually less than a few degrees.

Does anybody know if Comcast in Mty passes the HD local stations in the clear?

I'm interested in knowing if it is possible to receive the HD locals using a clear QAM tuner - without using a Comcast STB.

Down in Soledad I use two antennas CM 4228 and VHF 10 Element Yagi Ch.7-13. I can get 8.1 at 99% 35.1 at 85% 46.1 at 74%

btw are you guys having a real bad picture break up on the Football game tonight on fox?

I am now getting everything I need - The solution was to point directly at Fremont Peak and then rotate the Wineguard antenna about 45 degrees which gave stronger signal.

Now I am pointing about 20deg different than before but still get 46.1 without trouble...

Thanks everyone for the help!

Anyone know what happened to 'the CW'?
For weeks I was watching a test pattern, then weeks of KION on 46.2 and suddenly -- nothing.

DTV is so frustrating. :-)

Anyone know what happened to 'the CW'?
For weeks I was watching a test pattern, then weeks of KION on 46.2 and suddenly -- nothing.

DTV is so frustrating. :-)
Your post confused me a little - are you saying you're not receiving KION?

I just checked my TV 2 mins ago it appears to me that KION-DT is on-air.

Anyone know what happened to 'the CW'?
For weeks I was watching a test pattern, then weeks of KION on 46.2 and suddenly -- nothing.

46.2 The CW is back with streched SD simulcast of 46.1.

46.2 The CW is back with streched SD simulcast of 46.1.
Interesting - I didn't know this channel existed. Just did a channel scan and there it is!

Why do they call it "the CW"?

Interesting - I didn't know this channel existed. Just did a channel scan and there it is!

Why do they call it "the CW"?
Never mind - found it out myself, the CW is the combined UPN/WB network. Guess that Clear Channel (owner of KION) is going to have a CW local affiliate on 46-2, although there is nothing on the CW website (cwtv.com) about it.

Personally I'd rather have them keep broadcasting the streched CBS SD - I hate the black bars on SD content on 46-1.

Does anybody know if Comcast in Mty passes the HD local stations in the clear?

I'm interested in knowing if it is possible to receive the HD locals using a clear QAM tuner - without using a Comcast STB.

I get local channels in HD in Scotts Valley. I have Comcast basic cable service and the cable is plugged directly into my Panasonic HDTV with a QAM tuner (no cable box or cable card) and I get ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX and PBS in HD.

Here's one man's experience with receiving digital OTA in the Monterey area. I hope it will encourage others to give OTA reception a try.

My house is located just off of Hwy 68, between Laguna Seca Golf Course and Laguna Seca Raceway. The house is slightly above the level
of Hwy 68, but is in a bowl surrounded by mountains on all sides. I am mainly concerned with reception of:
KSBW8 NBC Digital ch 10, 20 mi to the NE
KCBA35 Fox Digital ch 13, 20 mi to the NE
KION46 CBS Digital ch 32, 9 mi to the SE
KCAH26 PBS Digital ch 58, 20 mi to the NE

I am able to receive a good picture with no dropouts on all but KCAH. KCAH seems to be a lost cause where I am located.

I started with the idea that it was unlikely I would receive anything. This was based on the topography around my home, and the comments of my D* installer and the folks at Radio Shack in Del Monte ctr, who both said that I would only be able to receive digital channels OTA if I was located on a hillside near the ocean. The guy at Radio Shack even refused to sell me an antenna - "Just go with cable if you want HD locals". He threw down the gauntlet, and I accepted the challenge.

Based on posts here on AVS forum, I selected the Channelmaster 4228. My logic was that it was a UHF antenna with excellent gain for the high VHF channels I was trying to receive (10 and 13). I started with the idea that I would mount it outdoors. To test reception I bought a couple of sections of antenna mast from Radio Shack, and used my Ultimate bicycle tripod stand to hold the mast and antenna. I also purchased a Sencore signal meter on ebay to make it easier to peak the antenna signal.

To my surprise, I received a strong signal (anywhere from -14 to -3 db) for KION right off the bat. Anything in the general direction of the tower yielded a strong signal. KSBW and KCBA were another matter. I was able to get an acceptable signal on either one of channel 10 and 13, but no one location worked for both. This was very curious to me since both channels 10 and 13 are broadcast from the same tower, and are on the same band. After much experimentation outdoors, I decided to try mounting the antenna in the attic. To my surprise it did not have a large negative effect on signal strength. My house has a tile roof. But I still was unable to find a location which would work for both channels 10 and 13. For a few weeks I left it mounted in the attic, set up to receive channels 10 and 32 only.

After researching the gain numbers for the CM4228 antenna at http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html, I noticed that the gain for this antenna dropped off between channels 10 and 13. The lost gain was apparently just enough to make the OTA tuner on my D* HR10-250 unable to sync reliably to the digital signal on ch 13. First I purchased the CM7777 preamp to see if that would boost the gain enough that the HR10-250 would sync to the signal for ch 13. Signal strength was higher with the preamp but still not good enough.

So I decided to try a high gain VHF/UHF antenna, reasoning that I had gain to spare on the UHF band but obviously needed more gain on the VHF side. I selected the Antennasdirect v-21 antenna.

I mounted the new antenna in the same attic location as the 4228, tweaking the position until I was able to reliably get the following readings (db readings are without the CM7777 preamp, HR10-250 readings are with the preamp connected):
-16 to -17 db for channels 10 and 13 = 60 on the HR10-250 signal meter
-13 db for channel 32 = 89 on the HR10-250 signal meter
-38 to -40 db for KCAH(58) = 0 on the HR10-250 signal meter


So I would call my quest for digital TV a success. I'm getting a good picture with no dropouts on all channels except KCAH. Luckily I get KCAH in SD via D*, and it doesn't appear that KCAH has much HD content anyway. I get ABC in HD (HD Lite) via D* DNS.

Here's my tips to those who would like to try to receive digital OTA:
1) Don't listen to anyone who tells you that the topography, etc. will prevent you from receiving a signal. Without hooking up an antenna and signal meter, no one can know for sure if you can receive a signal at your location. Even if surrounded by hills and trees, you may be able to receive a reasonable signal. Be prepared to give it a shot, and if you can't receive a signal then at least you know it for sure. Obviously you want to purchase antennas and stuff which you can return in case you can't get a signal.
2) Use antennaweb only as a rough guide. I would recommend stepping up to the next higher gain antenna than the one that antennaweb recommends. In my case antennaweb recommended a medium directional with preamp, I ended up with a long distance directional with preamp.
3) In our area, you probably want to lean toward an antenna which has better VHF gain than UHF gain. Although those of you who are farther away from the KION tower than I am may still need high UHF gain. Both the CM4228 and antennasdirect v-21 will do a good job for both VHF and UHF, the CM4228 doing a little better on UHF, and the antennasdirect v-21 doing a little better on VHF. If your'e closer to the KSBW/KCBA tower you may want to opt for the CM4228 antenna. Those closer to the KION tower may want to opt for the antennasdirect v21 antenna. Make sure you purchase the antenna from a dealer which accepts returns as it is very possible you may need to try several antennas to find the right one.
4) To test your signal I would recommend taking your ATSC tuner to the antenna location and connecting the tuner to the antenna and a small portable TV. Once you have determined you can receive any signal at all, a signal meter or spectrum analyzer will greatly simplify antenna aiming. I would not have been successful in aiming my antenna without one. I have a Sencore SLM1453 meter I purchased on ebay for ~$300. Signal meters such as the Sencore and the Sadelco Displaymax CLI, usually sell on ebay for $300-$700. If you don't want to spend money for a meter the ATSC tuner/portable TV combination should work ok. I would not recommend trying to point the antenna with someone standing downstairs giving you feedback. If your signal is marginal you'll be shocked how a small movement of the antenna will affect your signal strength readings.
5) Attic mounting is not out of the question even in a marginal location. Try the antenna outdoors on a portable tripod, and if you get a good signal, then proceed to the attic (but only if you don't have a metal roof :-)

As a postscript, check out PGDave's earlier post in this thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6018790&&#post6018790 about receiving SF Digital channels OTA in the Monterey area. I tried to receive the SF digitals in my location using the antennasdirect xg-91, but was unable to receive any measurable signal. Luckily antennasdirect accepts returns :-) I have to assume that PGDave's home is located on a hillside near the ocean in order for him to receive any signal from SF.

Does anyone get NBC 11 out of San jose? i'm getting it at 80% down in Soledad

Does anyone get NBC 11 out of San jose? i'm getting it at 80% down in Soledad
I'm getting no signal for KNTV here at Laguna Seca. PGDave is receiving KNTV, see http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6018790&&#post6018790

I'm surprised you're receiving KNTV - according to www.2150.com/broadcast the KNTV transmitter is at Sutro in SF. That would make it 90-100 miles away from Soledad.

Does KNTV have another tower located closer to us? Do they broadcast digital on ch 12?

I'm getting no signal for KNTV here at Laguna Seca. PGDave is receiving KNTV, see http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6018790&&#post6018790

I'm surprised you're receiving KNTV - according to www.2150.com/broadcast the KNTV transmitter is at Sutro in SF. That would make it 90-100 miles away from Soledad.

Does KNTV have another tower located closer to us? Do they broadcast digital on ch 12?
Just rescanned this thread, looks like KNTV has a transmitter at Loma Prieta on ch21. See
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=4700732&&#post4700732

Since KNTV is now the SF Bay's lone NBC affiliate, I would expect that they might kill this transmitter eventually since they have a transmitter at Sutro. But I suppose that folks in South San Jose might have difficulty receving a signal from Sutro, so perhaps they'll leave the Loma Prieta transmitter up and running.

For those receiving KCAH OTA, a couple of questions:
1) How does the signal strength compare to the other OTA channels you receive?
2) Do they ever broadcast any HD content?

I have an antennasdirect v-21 VHF/UHF antenna with CM7777 preamp, located 20 mi from the transmitter. I get good signals for all of the Mry locals except for KCAH - the signal for KCAH is approx 20db lower than all my other locals and is unusable. Looking at www.2150.com/broadcast KCAH is broadcasting from the same location as KCBA and KSBW, at what appears to be a high power level.

I'm just wondering if there's anything I can do to receive KCAH. I also have not been able to get a decent signal for KCAH with a CM4228 antenna. This antenna will pick up every other local station from my location.

Does KNTV have another tower located closer to us? Do they broadcast digital on ch 12?

KNTV broadcasts from Mt. San Bruno, in South San Francisco, on digital channels 12.1 and 12.2. They do not have another transmitting location. The Loma Prieta transmitter was shut down when they moved to Mt. San Bruno.

When I wrote my first report, KNTV was still transmitting from Loma Prieta and was my strongest signal. Now, their signal is much weaker and I receive it only when atmospheric conditions are favorable.

In my never-ending quest for better reception, I have turned an old satellite dish into a terrestial antenna. After tilting the dish to an upright position, I removed the feedhorn and replaced it with the back 1/3 of an XG-91 UHF antenna coupled with a Winegard 8275 preamp.

It works like a champ and provides a much better signal than the stand-alone XG-91. However, it is much more directional so its off-axis performance is worse than the XG-91. I use an A-B switch to switch between antennas when I want to watch 36 or 46.

To improve high-vhf performance, I made a dipole for high VHF from a couple of strips of aluminum and wired it into the XG-91 box with twinlead. You can see the dipole attached behind the reflector in the photos below.

KCAH 25 does not broadcast any HD content at this time. My signal strength for 25.1 is 100%.

Please click on the links below to see photos of both antennas.

Here's one man's experience with receiving digital OTA in the Monterey area. I hope it will encourage others to give OTA reception a try.

My house is located just off of Hwy 68, between Laguna Seca Golf Course and Laguna Seca Raceway. The house is slightly above the level
of Hwy 68, but is in a bowl surrounded by mountains on all sides. I am mainly concerned with reception of:
KSBW8 NBC Digital ch 10, 20 mi to the NE
KCBA35 Fox Digital ch 13, 20 mi to the NE
KION46 CBS Digital ch 32, 9 mi to the SE
KCAH26 PBS Digital ch 58, 20 mi to the NE

I am able to receive a good picture with no dropouts on all but KCAH. KCAH seems to be a lost cause where I am located. .

Snarf,

I would like to add my two cents on Monterey OTA reception. My results are virtually identical to yours, not surprisingly since I think that we live less than a mile apart.

I am located at Hidden Mesa Place off Boots Road, 1 mile South of Highway 68 opposite Laguna Seca Golf Course. For the GPS inclined among you, I am 725 feet above sea level at N 36 degrees 33.833 minutes and W 121 degrees 47.063 minutes. I am located below the surrounding hills in a box canyon below Bay Ridge and am blocked on three sides by local hills. I am guessing from your description that you live in or near Pasadera CC.

Around June of 2004, I was told by a Carmel Valley friend that despite my previous inability to get any OTA analog TV, that I had a good shot at getting the digital OTA signals from the locals from their new tower locations.

Using a set of old rabbit ears initially and a Zenith Silver Sensor later, I was stunned that I was able to consistently get KION 46-1 and KSBW 8-1 with a relatively strong signal using my RCA DTC100 DirecTV receiver.

I have since replaced the DTC100 with an HR10-250 and despite some tuner sensitivity, when the locals are broadcasting, I can get KION 46-1, KCBA 35-1, The CW 46-2, KSBW 8-1 and KSBW Plus 8-2 with no difficulty whatsoever. I am unable to receive KCAH 25-1 no matter what gymnastics I attempt.

I might add that KSBW 8-1 is a hit and miss proposition. I am not certain why but there are many times when it pixelates so badly that I wonder if they have reduced power or if atmospheric conditions are affecting the signal, but suffice it to say it is the weakest of the locals and the one most likely to be off the air on an aperiodic basis.

I recently helped my neighbor capture OTA HD using a Samsung SIR T451 OTA receiver and I am amused to report that at his house we had better success with plain old rabbit ears than with my Silver Sensor. He is located 200-300 feet closer to Hwy 68 and in fact has a better view of the horizon than I, but the signal we got is so directional that the silver sensor will not pick up all five locals at the same time without reorientation, whereas the rabbit ears will. Go figure.

Not being one to crawl around rooftops at my age, I took advantage of some free "stuff" from D* and had them install their "POS" omnidirectional rooftop antenna, for no charge of course, and I can report it is worth exactly what I paid for it. Nothing. I still get a better signal using rabbit ears than the D* bistro table I now have perched atop my chimney.

Bottom line, using the HR10-250 signal meter as a measuring device, I get strong 80's to low 90's on KCBA 35-1 and KION 46-1. My KSBW 8-1 and 8-2 signals peak out at around 65 and they fluctuate a lot. I have not taken a measurement on 46-2 because I have no idea how to locate it using the HR10-250 OTA signal strength screen.

Those of us who are lucky enough to live in the Highway 68 corridor have a great chance to get all the locals (except KCAH 25-1). Our poor bretheren in Carmel Valley are truly out of luck no matter what they attempt. OTA is impossible on the other side of Laurales Grade.

Dave

Snarf,

I would like to add my two cents on Monterey OTA reception. My results are virtually identical to yours, not surprisingly since I think that we live less than a mile apart.

leftcoast,
Thanks for your post - it's good to know that a neighbor is watching this thread!

Using a set of old rabbit ears initially and a Zenith Silver Sensor later, I was stunned that I was able to consistently get KION 46-1 and KSBW 8-1 with a relatively strong signal using my RCA DTC100 DirecTV receiver.

I have since replaced the DTC100 with an HR10-250 and despite some tuner sensitivity, when the locals are broadcasting, I can get KION 46-1, KCBA 35-1, The CW 46-2, KSBW 8-1 and KSBW Plus 8-2 with no difficulty whatsoever. I am unable to receive KCAH 25-1 no matter what gymnastics I attempt.

I might add that KSBW 8-1 is a hit and miss proposition. I am not certain why but there are many times when it pixelates so badly that I wonder if they have reduced power or if atmospheric conditions are affecting the signal, but suffice it to say it is the weakest of the locals and the one most likely to be off the air on an aperiodic basis.

This is interesting. My KSBW signal has been solid since I optimized my antenna location. My guess is that the as the signal level fluctuates, the gain on your rabbit ears is sufficiently low that it allows the signal level to the tuner to drop below the threshold sensitivity of the tuner. My signal for KSBW does fluctuate very slightly as viewed on the HR10's signal meter as well as the Sencore meter. This fluctuation is on the order of +- 1db. But even though my signal fluctuates, it never drops off enough for the tuner to lose the digital signal. I'm using a preamp as well which I think helps with signal stability.

But it's also possible that there is enough of a difference in topo between our locations which is contributing to your signal dropout problems. If I move my antenna 1 inch, it has a huge effect on which channels I can receive and their signal strength. I'm also wondering how much my reception is going to vary as the seasons and atmospheric conditions change - I've only had this working for a month or so. So far so good.

Not being one to crawl around rooftops at my age, I took advantage of some free "stuff" from D* and had them install their "POS" omnidirectional rooftop antenna, for no charge of course, and I can report it is worth exactly what I paid for it. Nothing. I still get a better signal using rabbit ears than the D* bistro table I now have perched atop my chimney.

Totally understand not wanting to crawl around on the roof - that's why I did an attic install. If I had been forced to install outdoors, I was going to determine the antenna location myself and hire someone to do the install. The attic install was simple for me since my house has structured wiring and the coax to connect the antenna to the TV was already present in the attic.

Don't know if an attic install is an option for you, but I suspect than a higher gain antenna in the attic would give you a more stable signal.

As for the D* "antenna", I suspect that one of the reasons my D* installer told me I would not receive an OTA signal is that he knew the D* antenna was worthless.


Bottom line, using the HR10-250 signal meter as a measuring device, I get strong 80's to low 90's on KCBA 35-1 and KION 46-1. My KSBW 8-1 and 8-2 signals peak out at around 65 and they fluctuate a lot. I have not taken a measurement on 46-2 because I have no idea how to locate it using the HR10-250 OTA signal strength screen.

My results are similar, but my lowest signal strength reading is for KCBA. KCBA signal strength fluctuates more than the others, but I never see the signal dropout. I can get better KCBA signal strength by tweaking the antenna direction, but that will degrade the KSBW signal. Since I don't watch Fox very often, I opted to optimize the direction for KSBW reception.

46-1 & 46-2 are broadcast on the same channel frequency, channel 32. The digital broadcasts allow multiple channels to be broadcast on the same frequency. Likewise 8-1 & 8-2 are on ch freq 10.

Those of us who are lucky enough to live in the Highway 68 corridor have a great chance to get all the locals (except KCAH 25-1). Our poor bretheren in Carmel Valley are truly out of luck no matter what they attempt. OTA is impossible on the other side of Laurales Grade.

As for KCAH, here's one thing I failed to mention in my post which might be of interest:
When I was attempting to receive SF locals with the Antennasdirect XG-91, I noticed that when I oriented the antenna to the SE, I was receving a KCAH signal of approximately -15db, which is strong enough to receive a picture on the HR10-250. This was with the antenna outdoors. I was able to move the antenna through about a 45 degree range from the SE to due S and get a signal of -15 to -17 db. The antenna direction that received the KCAH signal was actaully about 90 degrees opposite from the actual transmitter location! But I was unable to receive a signal from any of the other channels from this direction, and since KCAH was a low priority, I didn't proceed any further. I assume that the signal is a reflection off of the mountains and that is why it is coming in from the "wrong" direction.

If and when KCAH starts broadcasting HD content I may install another antenna just for KCAH and use a Channelmaster Jointenna to join the signal for the ch 58(KCAH) antenna to my other antenna.

If and when KCAH starts broadcasting HD content I may install another antenna just for KCAH and use a Channelmaster Jointenna to join the signal for the ch 58(KCAH) antenna to my other antenna.

I agree that KCAH SD is of little interest today particularly since we get it in the locals package and its network content is a duplicate of D* channel 384 anyway. I will be interested to hear if your results improve once they start HD broadcasting.

PBS HD would be a welcome addition. For a time between Sept 2001 and January 2005 I subbed to BEV Expressvu and enjoyed terrific PBS HD out of Seattle and Boston. I truly wish we could see KQED HD from down here, but that is a whole 'nuther discussion.

Dave

Yesterday, the FCC released the "LPTV AND TV TRANSLATOR DIGITAL COMPANION CHANNEL APPLICATIONS NON-MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE PROPOSALS". That's a mouth full! What it is is a list of all proposals for low power stations received during the filing window that didn't conflict with anyone else's proposals. The stations listed are now eligible to apply for a license.

I've added the stations on the list for the San Francisco-Sacramento-Salinas/Monterey area to my web site listing. You'll find them in the list of "Digital Channels After Analog Shutdown" at the bottom of the page at: http://www.choisser.com/sfonair.html

If you're not familiar with that page, it's a list of all stations now on the air in these markets and a list of the channel assignments after February 17, 2009. Some stations will be changing their digital channel from the one they're using today.

I was surprised to read HDdude24's report about receiving KNTV in Soledad. That's a long haul from Mt. San Bruno! HDdude24... do you get any of the other digital stations from Mt. San Bruno or Sutro Tower?

Larry
SF

When I was attempting to receive SF locals with the Antennasdirect XG-91, I noticed that when I oriented the antenna to the SE, I was receving a KCAH signal of approximately -15db, which is strong enough to receive a picture on the HR10-250. This was with the antenna outdoors. I was able to move the antenna through about a 45 degree range from the SE to due S and get a signal of -15 to -17 db. The antenna direction that received the KCAH signal was actaully about 90 degrees opposite from the actual transmitter location!

You can be amazed at the signals you get from a direction that's nowhere near the direction of the transmitters. From my own experience up here in San Francisco, I get better results and more consistant signals from the four stations that transmit from the East Bay hills above Fremont (14, 36, 48 and 54) if I point my antenna South West at 220 degrees instead of South East toward the transmitters.

There's a hill to the South East, so that is probably the reason for the weaker signals in that direction. Sometimes the signals are okay with the antenna pointed that way, but the levels vary a lot. With the antenna pointed South West, the signals - definitely reflections off of some hill or building - are much more consistant. RF is a very interesting phenomenon! Once you lock in a station, don't be afraid to rotate the antenna around and watch the levels. You might find a hot spot where you least expect it!

As for you folks not being able to pick up KCAH as well as the other stations, it's probably due to their lower power. They transmit with only 151 kW, which is low for a UHF station.

Larry
SF

I was surprised to read HDdude24's report about receiving KNTV in Soledad. That's a long haul from Mt. San Bruno! HDdude24... do you get any of the other digital stations from Mt. San Bruno or Sutro Tower?

nope I wish I can get KGO! I can still pick up KNTV but it's real weak now.

As for you folks not being able to pick up KCAH as well as the other stations, it's probably due to their lower power. They transmit with only 151 kW, which is low for a UHF station

Larry
SF

ahh that's why I can't pick it up


VHF 10 Element Yagi Ch.7-13 Antennacraft Model Y10-7-13
UHF Channel Master 4228 8-Bay UHF antenna
VHF/UHF Joiner Channel Master Model 0549

Here is a Pic of my setup

VHF 10 Element Yagi Ch.7-13 Antennacraft Model Y10-7-13
Here is a Pic of my setup

That VHF antenna is similar to the Winegard 3113 I have for KNTV. I bought mine when they were transmitting from Loma Prieta, 55 miles from here, and I got a signal of 70-75 with it. Now that they're just 4 miles away I get their signal at 99 to 100.

You're getting a signal over an exceptionally long distance. Soledad must be at least 100 miles from Mt. San Bruno.

Larry
SF

As a fellow Monterey resident I felt it my duty to chime in here.

I live near the fairgrounds and I'm receiving all the above mentioned OTA channels quite well without any antenna - basically just a wire attached to the antenna input on my DishHD receiver that hangs out the window.

8-1 KSBW signal 65-75 (depending on cloudcover)
8-2 WX Plu (KSBW's weather channel) 65-75
25-1 KCAH 70-75
35-1 KCBA 70-85
46-1 KION 85-100
46-2 The CW 85-100

Only ever had problems with KSBW dropping out several times over a period of three days a few weeks back - while recording of course.

Has anyone locally been able to get ABC (KGO) ota?

That sounds simple enough. What type of 'wire'. Regular cable RG6?

I have dishHD too, I have the VIP-622 reciever hooked up to a Winegard Sensor II and I don't get good reception.

When I have my Wingard hooked directly into my Sony KDF-50A10 it works great.

I get 8.1, 8.2, 25.1, 35.1, 46.1, 46.2, 31.1, 31.2.


What happen to CBS yesterday? Football was in no-def.

Chad...

Is that no-def or low-def. CBS only chooses certain games to broadcast in HD. They won't have all games, like Fox, NBC, ESPN, and NFLN (live) till next year.

About the same time as most high school games will be broadcast in HD
:rolleyes:

That sounds simple enough. What type of 'wire'. Regular cable RG6?

I have dishHD too, I have the VIP-622 reciever hooked up to a Winegard Sensor II and I don't get good reception.

When I have my Wingard hooked directly into my Sony KDF-50A10 it works great.

I get 8.1, 8.2, 25.1, 35.1, 46.1, 46.2, 31.1, 31.2.


What happen to CBS yesterday? Football was in no-def.

Chad...

I live at old Fort Ord, and can pick up all 8 digital channels above with an indoor antenna.

I am in Fort Ord. - Preston Area.

I have my TV set at 16:9
I use an Accurian ($89 special HD receiver from Radioshack). I can get NBC, CBS, FOX, PBS in HD with a RABBIT EARS. I can get all other when using a terk antenna on top of my dish.

Settings - TV 16:9 STB set at 16:9 + NORMAL (not wide)

Recent problem (Since Sept. 20-24, 2006) .

The NBC 8-1 & 8-2 are both silent (no sound. + the image is square NOT even 4:3. I have not seen any 16:9 view even on primetime HD programs
The CW looks correctly stretched unbder Normal Setting.
Fox looks square (even in HD)
PBS and Spanish satations look correctlystretched

Has anyone run into this?

When I set the OTA box to wide instead of normal, it shows NBC as 4:3 with black side bands + No sound.

BTW 8-1 & 8-2 both sow the same thing. Weather is not on 8-2 anymore?

That sounds simple enough. What type of 'wire'. Regular cable RG6?

I have dishHD too, I have the VIP-622 reciever hooked up to a Winegard Sensor II and I don't get good reception.

When I have my Wingard hooked directly into my Sony KDF-50A10 it works great.

I get 8.1, 8.2, 25.1, 35.1, 46.1, 46.2, 31.1, 31.2.


What happen to CBS yesterday? Football was in no-def.

Chad...

The wire is just an ota fm antennae lead with a coax connector on one end - originally meant for my receiver but I don't listen to the radio at home.

I don't receive 31.1 or 31.2 - which stations are those?

Hey MatintheHat,

31.1 and 31.2 are Univision and Galavision... I think. Great soccer and game shows. Broadcast in 480i.

Jimbo09,

That's low-def.

Question:
Why can't we get all Network stations? Fox and NBC respect us but ABC, sometimes CBS, and PBS don't seem to care about us?! Towns like Fresno get 15 or so stations. Is it a contractual problem? Are we too small of a market?

Chad...

CBS seems to be fine 46.1 is almost always in HD during prime time, and they broadcast the CW in SD.

I get a few SD PBS stations with satellite, so the local station isn't that important to me. I know that in most places the local PBS has 2-4 sub-channel, we have one PBS period.

BTW, 49ers/ Raiders in low-def this weekend, but that'd be a low def game even if they decided to play it right outside my window. :)

I thought all NFL games were filmed in HD? So, I was surprised to see a game in SD.

I have satellite, too. But they don't offer any locals in HD. I'm just frustrated with local offerings in our market.

I'm a huge 49er fan... I like to see the 49ers be 'sharp' and the 'clear' winner even in low-def.

I've updated the list of San Francisco Bay Area/Sacramento/Monterey "Digital Channels After Analog Shutdown" on our web site and added station ERP (Effective Radiated Power) and HAAT (Height Above Average Terrain) to it from the new FCC DTV Table of Allotments.

For those not familiar with this, be aware that it takes less power on VHF than it does on UHF to get the same coverage area, so you can't compare channels 7 to 13 with channels 14 to 51 without taking this into consideration. Also, higher antenna heights require less power for the same coverage area.

I hope you find this new information to be useful. You'll find it at:
http://www.choisser.com/sfonair.html

As always, accuracy is not guaranteed but it's correct to the best of my knowledge. I converted HAAT in meters on the FCC site to feet for our list, but I used a spreadsheet, so that should all be correct.

If you find any errors on the page, corrections are always welcome.

Larry
SF

Does anyone get HD/SD KION near Monterey High School? At the moment I have tried the old standby indoor antennas (one of those flexable T-shaped double wires) and the single wire taken from my stereo (5-6 ft long I think). To my surprise signal strength hovers around 70% for KCAH, KSBW, and KCBA. Occational dropouts but I suspect a better antenna might help that. But there is no signal at all for CBS. Antennaweb org does not even show KION as available except for the usual analog one. I assume they both use the same tower.

Does anyone get HD/SD KION near Monterey High School? At the moment I have tried the old standby indoor antennas (one of those flexable T-shaped double wires) and the single wire taken from my stereo (5-6 ft long I think). To my surprise signal strength hovers around 70% for KCAH, KSBW, and KCBA. Occational dropouts but I suspect a better antenna might help that. But there is no signal at all for CBS. Antennaweb org does not even show KION as available except for the usual analog one. I assume they both use the same tower.
KION broadcasts from a different tower than all the other locals. The KION tower is southeast from Monterey. The others broadcast from a tower which is to the northeast.

For more info on local reception, there are a couple of posts in this thread which may help. In particular you may want to take a look at my post:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8314481&&#post8314481

I'm next to Laguna Seca but a lot of the info may apply to your location as well...

Does anyone get HD/SD KION near Monterey High School? At the moment I have tried the old standby indoor antennas (one of those flexable T-shaped double wires) and the single wire taken from my stereo (5-6 ft long I think). To my surprise signal strength hovers around 70% for KCAH, KSBW, and KCBA. Occational dropouts but I suspect a better antenna might help that. But there is no signal at all for CBS. Antennaweb org does not even show KION as available except for the usual analog one. I assume they both use the same tower.

Now and then, KION goes off the air and at other times it showed up at 46-2 instead of 46-1. Now that the CW is on 46-2, KION is only available on 46-1.

While I do not live in your neighborhood I can verify that KION DT at 46-1 is on this air as of 3:50 PM local time on Thursday. I am getting a solid 90% signal from my location off Boots Road 1 mile from Hwy 68. KSBW and KCBA are also coming in but at a much lower 70% signal strength.

I use a plain old Silver Sensor for my OTA signal.

Dave

Ive been trying other antennas I have laying around and today I actually got KION and CW. So at least I know they work. But now KCBA doesnt want to come in today... some mighty finicky reception here. Then again my cell phone signal strength here isnt all that great either. But take a little walk down the street and all is good. Perhaps I have some kind of metal meteor buried under the house ;o)

Watched a college game for a few on KION and it looked quite nice, although the signal wasnt clean and had occational problems (hovered around 70% strength). Hopefully my TV will be arriving within the next 2-3 days. I have read here and there that built-in HDTV can sometimes do a better job of handling over-the-air than cable/satellite receivers do. I will be putting that to the test.

Otherwise... I didnt really think about local digital TV except via cable or dish because other than KSBW I didnt think they were broadcast here yet. So getting this to work is more of a welcome bonus to something that I already enjoy.

As many of you know, I maintain a list of the digital stations within 100 miles of San Francisco on my web site (http://www.choisser.com/sfonair.html) showing lots of information about each station... callsign, channel info, network, transmitter location, etc.

Since I'm located in San Francisco and I can't receive any of the stations transmitting from your area, I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who finds any errors or missing information in that list. If a channel adds a sub-channel, changes network or programming service, or does anything else that should be noted on the list, I'd appreciate hearing from you. I want to keep the list as accurate and current as possible, so your input is most welcome.

I read that CW is on 46-2 now. Is there a separate station on that channel, or just the CW programming from 8 to 10 pm? What's on there at other hours?

Are there any digital stations in the Salinas-Monterey area that are on the air but not listed?

It's information like that I would appreciate hearing about.

Since I have an email spam filter, please use my mail form to contact me: http://www.choisser.com/larry/mail/

Thanks.

Larry
SF

Anyone in Santa Cruz County (Aptos) with good OTA. I have Comcast-thinking of dumping it. I have an HDTV monitor so would need to pick up an OTA receiver. Before doing so I am intersted in hearing from anyone who is in this area?

Hi, I just recently stopped getting cable, I still want to get the local channels for news and such.

I have been researching HDTV antennas and there is much out there and much confusion. I need to use an indoor antenna due to my circumstances where I live. I don't have an HDTV, just want to get the signals and if they change to HD only I want to still pick them up.

I am in the Seabright/Broadway area of Santa Cruz. Does anyone have a recommendation as to which indoor antenna to get?

TIA

Anyone in Santa Cruz County (Aptos) with good OTA. I have Comcast-thinking of dumping it. I have an HDTV monitor so would need to pick up an OTA receiver. Before doing so I am intersted in hearing from anyone who is in this area?


I'm also in Aptos (near Sumner) and am on the hunt for a tried and true OTA Antenna to hook in to my Sony SXRD A2000. Currently have Dish with the locals in SD. Would love to experiment with an attic antenna but am not opposed to mounting one on my roof (or on the dish) if it means getting better reception all around. According to antennaweb I am 25.2 miles away from the towers and need a small multi-directional. Any recommendations would be appreciated.

Hi, I just recently stopped getting cable, I still want to get the local channels for news and such.

I have been researching HDTV antennas and there is much out there and much confusion. I need to use an indoor antenna due to my circumstances where I live.

The digital stations down your way transmit from Fremont Peak, which is northeast of Salinas near San Juan Batista, and Mt. Toro, which is directly south of Salinas. I can't give an answer on coverage in Santa Cruz because I live in San Francisco, but it doesn't look promising with an indoor antenna. The reason I'm responding is because of your next comment:

I don't have an HDTV, just want to get the signals and if they change to HD only I want to still pick them up.
TIA
To receive HD or digital signals you will need a digital receiver. An old analog TV tuner will not pick up the digital stations.

There's no such thing as "an HDTV antenna". Any antenna that's made for TV will work for HD, but it needs to be outside and up on the roof to work right... and the further you are from the transmitters the better that antenna has to be.

Larry
SF

I'm also in Aptos (near Sumner) and am on the hunt for a tried and true OTA Antenna to hook in to my Sony SXRD A2000. Currently have Dish with the locals in SD. Would love to experiment with an attic antenna but am not opposed to mounting one on my roof (or on the dish) if it means getting better reception all around. According to antennaweb I am 25.2 miles away from the towers and need a small multi-directional. Any recommendations would be appreciated.

Hi emsteff, I am new to the OTA world but I am thinking of starting cheap/easy (indoor) with the antenna and then workng my way up to bigger (roof mounted) as/if needed (and wife permitting).

I called Dish last night to ask about locals package (Salines/Monterey) but he confused me. Do you have HD? (I'm dont know my Sony well). What Locals do you get in SD? What is your overall impression of Dish?

THanks

The digital stations down your way transmit from Fremont Peak, which is northeast of Salinas near San Juan Batista, and Mt. Toro, which is directly south of Salinas. I can't give an answer on coverage in Santa Cruz because I live in San Francisco, but it doesn't look promising with an indoor antenna. The reason I'm responding is because of your next comment:

To receive HD or digital signals you will need a digital receiver. An old analog TV tuner will not pick up the digital stations.

There's no such thing as "an HDTV antenna". Any antenna that's made for TV will work for HD, but it needs to be outside and up on the roof to work right... and the further you are from the transmitters the better that antenna has to be.

Larry
SF
Thank you for the information. I have been hearing that at some point stations will only broadcast digital signals and that I would have to get a set top box to translate the signals to the analog TV.

I have also heard about a device that an antenna gets attached to that would connect to my computer (I have an iMac) via USB. (there is a story at ABC news about an Artec Digital TV tuner) It looks like I could get digital signals that way. I have a digital bridge (Pyro) that goes both ways, analog to digital and digital to analog. Of course I could upgrade my TV to digital, but I am finding with my nice 20" screen on the iMac I am watching video, podcasts and DVDs on my computer!

Thanks so much for your feedback, the technology for OTA TV is very confusing with many different claims and experiences, I appreciate the guidance!

Hi emsteff, I am new to the OTA world but I am thinking of starting cheap/easy (indoor) with the antenna and then workng my way up to bigger (roof mounted) as/if needed (and wife permitting).

I called Dish last night to ask about locals package (Salines/Monterey) but he confused me. Do you have HD? (I'm dont know my Sony well). What Locals do you get in SD? What is your overall impression of Dish?

THanks
I just got rid of Dish Network. Nothing wrong with the service, I just wasn't watching it enough to justify the expense (watch TV at the BF's house mostly). They do have a HD package and it does include a couple local HD channels. I believe it is NBC and CBS (channels 8 and 46) I can't remember if Fox is HD. We don't get a local ABC channel (a very weird thing, used to be one in San Jose then they changed to NBC) The ABC station I was getting was from L.A.

They have other HD channels, like Discovery. My boyfriend was looking into it as he has Comcast and isn't happy with what they offer and was thinking of switching to Dish. Dish does have a better package, but like me he is tired of paying so much money and hardly watching it.

Hi emsteff, I am new to the OTA world but I am thinking of starting cheap/easy (indoor) with the antenna and then workng my way up to bigger (roof mounted) as/if needed (and wife permitting).

I called Dish last night to ask about locals package (Salines/Monterey) but he confused me. Do you have HD? (I'm dont know my Sony well). What Locals do you get in SD? What is your overall impression of Dish?

THanks
GBruno, the locals I get off Dish are from Monterey and are NBC, CBS, Fox, and a few Spanish channels. The locals I get through Dish are in Standard Def only and look “so so” on the Sony sxrd. I have to say though that getting local channels in SD for $5 or $6 over Dish is my only gripe. I’ve had Dish for 2 weeks now and the HD channels have exceeded my expectations. I have the Bronze HD package and I believe we get around 26 HD channels. Overall it provides a nice balance of programming for my wife and I. The local SD’s for $5.99 have got to go though. Let me know if you have any luck with an OTA. I might purchase one from Radio Shack in the next few weeks and try it out.

Thank you for the information. I have been hearing that at some point stations will only broadcast digital signals and that I would have to get a set top box to translate the signals to the analog TV.

I have also heard about a device that an antenna gets attached to that would connect to my computer (I have an iMac) via USB. (snip)

You're right about the analog cutoff, Gigi. All analog stations will go off the air by February 17, 2009, so we still have a couple of years to go before it happens. After that all TV stations will be digital only. Those that still have analog TVs will have to get a digital receiver-converter box to get OTA signals or have satellite or cable.

For those interested in what the new line up will be after the end of analog, you can check out my web site:
http://www.choisser.com/sfonair.html
Below the list of present day channels you'll find a list showing "The TV dial after analog shutdown". You'll note that some channels like KSBW, KGO, KICU and KXTV will be moving their digital operation to their present analog channel when the change over occurs.

You're also correct about digital tuners for computers. Several are available for both the Mac and PC. I have the MyHD card (which is for a PC) in this computer and it works great. You can receive both OTA and cable channels with it, and record and playback HD and SD programming. Be aware that HD files take up a lot of disk space. One hour of HD takes up about 8.5 Gigabytes, so you need a big hard drive on your computer if you plan to do much recording.

I'm not sure what's available for the Mac, but there's a separate section here on the AVS Forum for Home Theater Computers and you'll find lots of information there.

GBruno... I have Dish Network and have been very happy with their service. They offer 26 national HD channels, like Discovery, TNT, ESPN, HDNet, Food Channel, HGTV, Rave, HDNews, etc. and here in San Francisco I get four local HD channels - KGO, KPIX, KNTV and KTVU. I don't think they offer any HD locals in the Monterey-Salinas market yet. They offer six local SD channels in your area: 8, 25, 35, 43, 46, and 67. Their ViP-622 DVR is very good, too. I pay $67 a month for the Dish Bronze HD package that includes the 30 HD stations and about 80 SD stations and the DVR service. They offer more expensive packages that include more HD, like HBO, Showtime, Stars, etc. and more SD channels. Their HD pictures look really good!

Larry
SF

For analog signals you can get an antenna from Radio Shack.
I used one for many years (I live just off seabright).
But it won't provide really good quality all the time. Even at its best, it
isn't much better than OK. When I got an HDTV I had to put up
an outdoor antenna.

Thanks everyone. I have ordered a Samsung DTB. If I can reliably get OTA NBC/CBS/FOX in HD from Aptos then I will dump Comcast (only 6 HD channels) and go with DISH. Bummer is I most likely will not have even ABC SD.

We can send a man to the moon...

thanks again, Greg

For analog signals you can get an antenna from Radio Shack.
I used one for many years (I live just off seabright).
But it won't provide really good quality all the time. Even at its best, it
isn't much better than OK. When I got an HDTV I had to put up
an outdoor antenna.
Thanks for the info. I think I will just go with this for now. I hardly watch TV at home, but there are nights I do and this is an acceptable choice for now as it is inexpensive. I mostly watch "House" and "ER" and wouldn't want to miss then as the newer eps aren't at NetFlix yet.

I have been enjoying the amazing amount of stuff available in Podcast form too!

Larry, I found something called "EyeTV" for the Mac. It comes with capture software that records it to MP4 so that it is compressed. It works off antenna or off a cable feed to turn the computer into a TiVo like DVR/Recording device (it has a program guide with the software package). There are versions of this type of device for Windows too.

A lot will change in the two years before all analog is gone I am sure. I was just panicked a little because my boyfriend thought it was changing next March. I think it is great that there are alternatives to cable and dish and paying them to get local channels. There is time to see what will come on the market, this is actually exciting although it is quite confusing. I am grateful to have found this forum and thanks so much for the advice and for sharing experiences!

Great forum... I'm glad to see all the great post!

Larry, you might have to help me with my wording...?

For the Monterey/Santa Cruz market you'll need an antenna with both VHF and UHF.

NBC - VHF 8.1 on channel 10.
Fox - VHF 35.1 on channel 13.
CBS - UHF 46.1 and 46.2 on channel 32.
PBS - UHF 25.1 on channel 58.

As you see our channels range from 10 - 58 a wide range. You'll also want an antenna that kinda directional cause all towers are at a southwest direction from Santa Cruz.

I live in Prunedale and the towers are 15 - 20 miles from here. You'll need at least a medium, if not large, size antenna for the distance of 30 to 40 miles from Santa Cruz.

I hope this gets you started... another option... try a large antenna and try to get to SF's tower on Sutro Mt... there you'll get ABC and alot more!

Good luck,

Chad...

P.S. I'd stay away from RS's antenna stuff. You can do alot better online. Check SolidSignal for starters.

PGDave, let me know what you think my chances are of getting signals from Mt. Sutro. I live near Sumner and Clubhouse Dr in Aptos and have a pretty clear view up the coast. When I map it on Google Earth it looks to be about 64 miles. What do you think, should I give it a shot with the X91 or is there a better antenna on the market now? Also, should I use a preamp like the cm 7777 you have?

Thanks for your great posts. You definitely have me intrigued with the possibilities!

PGDave, let me know what you think my chances are of getting signals from Mt. Sutro. I live near Sumner and Clubhouse Dr in Aptos and have a pretty clear view up the coast. When I map it on Google Earth it looks to be about 64 miles. What do you think, should I give it a shot with the X91 or is there a better antenna on the market now? Also, should I use a preamp like the cm 7777 you have?

Thanks for your great posts. You definitely have me intrigued with the possibilities!

I know of viewers in both Santa Cruz and Pacific Grove who are able to get several of the stations from Sutro Tower in San Francisco, but they're not far from the ocean and I suspect the signals are coming over the water. I don't know what the chances are for Aptos, but I don't think reception is totally out of the question.

I put Aptos 95003 into antennaweb.org, the site recommended as best for determining what stations you can get. It didn't show any digital stations from San Francisco, but it did show KTVU analog channel 2 from Sutro and KNTV channel 11 from Mount San Bruno just four miles away. Antennaweb is noted for being stingy on it's recommendations and many viewers have been able to get stations they don't list.

Seeing that channel 2 from Sutro IS listed, you might have a chance with the X91 and CM7777. There's no way to be sure though until you try.

I'm copying the list I received from antennaweb for your information.

Good luck!

Larry
SF

- - - - - -

AntennaType Call Sign Channel Network City State CompassOrientation Miles From FrequencyAssignment
yellow - uhf KION 46 CBS MONTEREY CA 139° 33.7 46
* yellow - uhf KSMS-DT 31.1 UNI MONTEREY CA 38° 9.0 31
yellow - uhf KKPX 65 i SAN JOSE CA 1° 10.1 65
* green - uhf KION-DT 46.1 CBS MONTEREY CA 139° 33.7 32
green - uhf KTEH1 54 PBS SANTA CRUZ CA 0° 10.0 54
lt green - uhf K53DT 53 TBN MONTEREY CA 154° 29.5 53
red - vhf KSBW 8 NBC SALINAS CA 110° 26.2 8
* red - vhf KSBW-DT 8.1 NBC SALINAS CA 110° 26.2 10
red - uhf KCBA 35 FOX SALINAS CA 110° 26.2 35
* red - vhf KCBA-DT 35.1 FOX SALINAS CA 110° 26.2 13
blue - uhf KMCE-LP 43 AZA SAN MARTIN, ETC. CA 110° 26.2 43
blue - uhf KCAH 25 PBS WATSONVILLE CA 110° 26.2 25
blue - uhf K56AA 56 PBS SALINAS CA 139° 33.3 56
blue - uhf KMUV-LP 23 UNI MONTEREY CA 110° 26.2 23
blue - uhf KSMS 67 UNI MONTEREY CA 110° 26.2 67
blue - uhf KDJT-CA 33 TFA SALINAS-MONTEREY, ET CA 42° 8.8 33
* violet - uhf KCAH-DT 25.1 PBS Watsonville CA 110° 26.2 58
violet - vhf KNTV 11 NBC SAN JOSE CA 314° 57.7 11
violet - vhf KTVU 2 FOX OAKLAND CA 316° 62.3 2
Note:
The above listing is a conservative prediction of stations received. Depending on the specifics of your installation, you may be able to receive stations that do not appear in this list.

PGDave, let me know what you think my chances are of getting signals from Mt. Sutro. I live near Sumner and Clubhouse Dr in Aptos and have a pretty clear view up the coast. When I map it on Google Earth it looks to be about 64 miles. What do you think, should I give it a shot with the X91 or is there a better antenna on the market now? Also, should I use a preamp like the cm 7777 you have?

Thanks for your great posts. You definitely have me intrigued with the possibilities!

As Larry says, the only way to know for sure is to try. I think the mountains may be too close to you and block the signal from Sutro. But you are 20 miles closer than I am so that may make a difference. You will definately need the CM 7777 and I don't know of a better antenna than the XG91. You will also need a rotor.

The most reliable signals I receive from Sutro are: 5, 7, 9 and 38.

Good luck!

As Larry says, the only way to know for sure is to try. I think the mountains may be too close to you and block the signal from Sutro. But you are 20 miles closer than I am so that may make a difference. You will definately need the CM 7777 and I don't know of a better antenna than the XG91. You will also need a rotor.

The most reliable signals I receive from Sutro are: 5, 7, 9 and 38.

Good luck!

Thanks guys. I'll give it the old college try. I'll give you an update around mid Jan next year.

We just moved from Santa Cruz (off of 7th by the Harbor) to a home in the Vineyards in Scotts Valley...

In SC, I got all the Salinas/Monterey channels via my HD OTA Antenna provided by DirecTV (Flat round saucer about 18" across) and all was happy... since moving to SV I can't get SQUAT over the air with that same antenna...

Has anyone had any luck with any OTA HD Antenna in the Scotts Valley Area?

Thanks in Advance!
SW2

I realise that some UHF antenna designs have a reasonable gain for the high VHF channels. Now Fremont Peak is 25 miles away at 129 degrees and Mt. Toro is 34 miles away at 157 degrees. With the prospect of KSBW 10.1 reverting to 8.1 in 2009 what would be the best options for antenna selection? Single UHF Bow-tie or Yagi?
UHF/VHF yagi? I'm a couple of hundred feet higher than the coastal plain and can mount antennae on a roof 50 feet above the ground.
I'm a newbie here so I'd appreciate a patient response. When I can help someone else, I will :cool:

Thanks in advance

I would definitely get a VHF/UHF combination antenna since you'll need VHF for KSBW and KCBA and UHF for the other stations. Most UHF antennas don't work at all for VHF and the CM4228 is only good at the high end of VHF, and it doesn't have much gain there. I doubt you'd get channel 8 with it... 10 and 13, maybe.

Since the two transmit locations are separated by 28 degrees you might need a rotor, too. Most antennas don't have that wide a beam, so trying to find a spot where you can pick up stations from both places probably won't work. You might try an omni directional antenna with some gain and see if that would work, but in hilly areas the multipath often causes too much interference with an omni directional.

You'll probably have to try different things to see what works best.

Larry
SF

Larry, thanks for the advice.
What's clear is that I'll have to experiment step-by-step.
I use the DVR on my vip622 a lot, so a rotator doesn't appeal.
Looks like I could avoid that since all the VHF channels are on Fremont Peak and the UHF channels on Mt. Toro, about 30 degrees apart.
Anyway, I'm getting ahead of myself. Next job is to get on the roof with a simple dipole and a small portable TV to check the potential problems by focussing on Channel 8 analog first. That should help me discern what the VHF portion of my antenna solution needs to be like.
I do have hills around me, but I'm at 400 feet and Fremont Peak is about 3000 feet, so I'm optimistic about VHF at least.
By the way, Google Earth is a fun toy to figure out the line-of-sight possibilities.

If I learn something of interest to others locals, I'll let you know

Larry, thanks for the advice.
What's clear is that I'll have to experiment step-by-step.
I use the DVR on my vip622 a lot, so a rotator doesn't appeal.
Looks like I could avoid that since all the VHF channels are on Fremont Peak and the UHF channels on Mt. Toro, about 30 degrees apart.

I have the 622 and love it! You're right, you don't want a rotor when you're going to record programs from stations in both directions without manual intervention.

Here's a combination that should work for you. Get a VHF-UHF combo antenna for Fremont Peak, because there are two UHF stations there (25 and 31) besides NBC and FOX, and a UHF antenna for Mt. Toro and connect them together with a Channel Master Jointenna tuned for channel 32. They come in single channel models. You can get a Jointenna at Schad Electronic Supply in San Jose - 800 262-1130. You connect the VHF-UHF as the main antenna and connect the UHF antenna as the single channel antenna. You should get good results with that set up.

Larry

Yet another good suggestion to ponder!
I'm in search of HD "locals" material (vip622 got me hooked on national HD) and neither of the UHF transmitters at Fremont Peak offers anything at the moment.
The NBC and FOX local stations are both on VHF.
Even after tweaking the insanely conservative Antennaweb listing for my location, it still doesn't show ANYTHING from the UHF stations on channel 32 at Mt. Toro.
It does suggest red/blue solutions for VHF at Fremont Pk., which implies the need for a mast-head pre-amp (CM7777 ? )
Hopefully I can optimize for hi-band VHF right away (Winegard YA-1713 ?) while I figure out what to do about the "missing" ch. 32.
The story continues.......

Even after tweaking the insanely conservative Antennaweb listing for my location, it still doesn't show ANYTHING from the UHF stations on channel 32 at Mt. Toro.

For some unknown reason, antennaweb lists the KION analog channel 46 but does not list digital ch 32 (KION-DT). KION-DT is in fact broadcasting 2 digital subchannels on ch 32 - subchannel 1 is the KION CBS affiliate, while subchannel 2 is "The CW" network. Antennaweb does list a location for the analog ch 46, which is the same transmitter location as digital ch 32.


It does suggest red/blue solutions for VHF at Fremont Pk., which implies the need for a mast-head pre-amp (CM7777 ? )

Test reception without the preamp first, to get an idea of baseline signal strength. It's very possible that you won't need one. Installing a preamp when you have a good baseline signal will not necessarily improve reception - in fact it can over amplify the signal which can lead to no reception whatsoever.


Hopefully I can optimize for hi-band VHF right away (Winegard YA-1713 ?) while I figure out what to do about the "missing" ch. 32.

IMHO, don't worry about UHF channels 25 and 31. Channel 25 (KCAH PBS) does not broadcast any HD content and it doesn't seem likely this will change in the near future. It also has a very low power signal which may be difficult to receive. I'm in Monterey, 23 miles away, and I can't pickup a useable signal on ch 25.

Channel 31 is Univision, so unless you care about Spanish language programs there's no need to bother. Since your handle implies you are British, you may be a football (soccer) fan, and I think that Univision may broadcast some games, I'm not sure.

If you eliminate 25 and 31, then you don't need to worry about UHF from Fremont peak and can concentrate on UHF from Mt. Toro.

It's very ironic that I can get the only Monterey station KSBW out in the Cental Valley both in analog and digital. However I think that in 2009, KSBW's signal may be reduced so which means that I can't get the station anymore by then I think?

It's very ironic that I can get the only Monterey station KSBW out in the Cental Valley both in analog and digital. However I think that in 2009, KSBW's signal may be reduced so which means that I can't get the station anymore by then I think?
Many stations who broadcast analog on VHF have selected a UHF channel for digital. The theory is that once analog shutdown occurs, they will move the digital broadcasts to their VHF channel. Since VHF channels are typically broadcast at lower power than UHF, it is possible that some people who previously were able to receive the digital broadcasts on UHF will no longer be able to receive them once they are moved to the VHF channel. Also in some cases folks who only have a UHF antenna with low VHF gain will be forced to install a new antenna.

In KSBW's case, analog is broadcast on ch 8 and digital is on ch 10. They will likely move the digital to ch 8 at the time of analog shutdown. Since ch 8 and ch 10 are both VHF, the scenario I describe above will not apply to KSBW.

If you are receiving both ch 8 and 10 now, this would seem to imply you will be able to receive digital on ch 8 when analog is shutdown. The only issue would be if the gain on your antenna for channel 8 is significantly lower than the gain for channel 10 AND the strength of the station's digital transmission was lower than the analog transmission. If BOTH of these conditions occur, the resulting loss of gain might be enough to drop below the threshold sensitivity of your OTA tuner. But this doesn't seem likely to me, particularly if you have relatively strong signals now.

IMHO, if you are receiving KSBW-DT now, you should be able to receive it once analog shutdown occurs.

Many stations who broadcast analog on VHF have selected a UHF channel for digital. The theory is that once analog shutdown occurs, they will move the digital broadcasts to their VHF channel. Since VHF channels are typically broadcast at lower power than UHF, it is possible that some people who previously were able to receive the digital broadcasts on UHF will no longer be able to receive them once they are moved to the VHF channel. Also in some cases folks who only have a UHF antenna with low VHF gain will be forced to install a new antenna.

In KSBW's case, analog is broadcast on ch 8 and digital is on ch 10. They will likely move the digital to ch 8 at the time of analog shutdown. Since ch 8 and ch 10 are both VHF, the scenario I describe above will not apply to KSBW.

If you are receiving both ch 8 and 10 now, this would seem to imply you will be able to receive digital on ch 8 when analog is shutdown. The only issue would be if the gain on your antenna for channel 8 is significantly lower than the gain for channel 10 AND the strength of the station's digital transmission was lower than the analog transmission. If BOTH of these conditions occur, the resulting loss of gain might be enough to drop below the threshold sensitivity of your OTA tuner. But this doesn't seem likely to me, particularly if you have relatively strong signals now.

IMHO, if you are receiving KSBW-DT now, you should be able to receive it once analog shutdown occurs.

Is 46 moving to VHF? alot of people down south county have a hard time picking it up. KSBW I get 100% with KCBA 35 at 85%

Is 46 moving to VHF? alot of people down south county have a hard time picking it up. KSBW I get 100% with KCBA 35 at 85%
I think that KION-DT (ch 32) will move to 46 when analog is shut down, since 46 is KION's "advertised" channel number. Don't know for sure however.

If you look earlier in this thread, I think Larry Kenney has a post with a link to a list of "proposed" channel assignments for local stations when analog shut down occurs.

EDIT:
Looks like KION-DT is going to stay on ch 32.
see http://www.choisser.com/sfonair.html for the "proposed" final channel assignments.

So in my attempt to get ride of comcast I have just set up an CM 3016 antenna to a Samsung digital STB-H260F to my 50 inch plasma. I have a 5 foot mast on the roof (sorry neighbors). I am in Aptos. I am getting 8.1; 8.2; 25.1; 35.1; 46.1 and 46.2. I eyeballed the boom towards fremont peak which is 26.7 miles from home. once I find a compass I will see how close I am and then also try to point it towards Sutro tower with the hope (prayer) of getting ABC-62 miles from here (but with a good line of sight).

Greg

No luck gettng ABC OTA. I would need a much bigger antenna I think. Am I missing something or is it impossible to get ABC HD in Santa Cruz??

I know switch over is in 2009, but Will our local stations every broadcast the news in HD before 2009?

HDdude24....not sure what you are asking?

There is no connection with digital and HD other than incidental. In other words, a station can be transmitting in digital format but not sending a thing in HD. Digital and HD are not one in the same, though it often seems like that is how they are perceived.

So none of them are required to transmit anything, news or otherwise, in HD. They are, however, soon to be legally made to transmit digitally - which most of them are already doing.

regards,
patrick

Anyone have any information about Comacast adding any more HD in Santa Cruz? I called them two weeks ago and was told that FSN-HD 720 would be added on 1/25. When it did not happen I called back and was told that I was told wrong. However both times I called I was told that more HD programming was going to happen within a year but they could not tell me anything else. I am rather suspicious of this because both representatives used almost the exact sentence. Also this is exactly what I was told one year ago when I asked the same question. Any thoughts or Information?

Also, I follow the SF comcast thread and many complain about being in a 550 mhz area. Is that what we are in? How can you tell? and, of course what is the significance?

Thanks, Greg

San Francisco Chronicle, January 10, 2005
Subscribers in some Bay Area Cities Have Far More Options Than in Others

...snip...

Nationwide, about 82 percent of networks are at 750 MHz or above, 12 percent are at 550 MHz and 5 percent are under 550 MHz

... snip.


It's all about bandwidth and ours is on the bottom of the chain, and they do their typically poor job sharing their expansion plans. Why they behave like this, year in and year out is anyone's guess, but it does nothing but enforce the idea that they don't give a crap.

They could post a web page with a grid and some rough dates, so people could use the information to make informed decisions.

I am not referring to the service level personnel. I am referring to the Ivory Tower mental giants who think they are being wise and strategic. Instead they create the atmosphere of mistrust. Over the long haul they drive people away. Ask ANYONE how they perceive the cable company and you'll get a sense for this.

I understand the logistic issues of expansion. What is lacking is their willingness to share the one year plan, so entire geographic areas can see the process and deal with it.

There is a huge opportunity right now for them to become a valuable consumer advocate. And, it'll never happen. So we wait and receive doubletalk or flat out BS.

patrick

Thanks for the post Patrick,

I am not surprised. About 10 years ago they came on to my property and actually destroyed a 4 way splitter I had-they broke it open and left it on the ground with a strange note. Funny thing is for about 1 years before that and the following ten years I had free cable. Just one year ago did they actually turn it off at the pole. Thats when I went HD and began this frustrating experience with them.

I figure since I had a decade+ of free cable I will give them one year to add more HD. But by 1/08 if I don't have Foodnetwork-HD it is off to one of the competitors.

Greg

For those with Dish Network check out the new channel that came on today. A&E HD is now on channel 9419 with the same schedule as on A&E SD.

Larry
SF

Any chance on DirecTV broadcasting Monterey local stations in HD after their new satellite launches?

Before I dumped Direct, I could get no answer to that valid question. But we are a very small market, and they are greedy. No date is posted or shared.

The issue you need to keep in mind is the 'HD Lite" Direct is sending out and calling it HD. Their HD is 1280 x 1080i, to save transponder bandwidth. True HD is 1920 x 1080i. Do the math. It is compressed into something halfway between HD and SD. It as a blatant a misrepresentation of a product as has happened in recent memory. Oh, it looks much better than SD, but it looks worse than true HD, and they are lying about it. They have even been sued over this issue and the litigation is proceeding to the best of my knowledge.

I hope it works out for you, but aside from the HD Lite, you must use the world's worst DVR- the HD20-700. This is the Murdoch-inspired HD DVR that replaced the HD Tivo after Direct dropped the relationship with Tivo. This is the ONLY way to record the new MPEG4 local HD channels, when and if they appear locally. The unit uses a 250GB drive, and incorporates home-brew software which is without doubt the worst ever made. Get ready for frequent hangs and reboots in addition to an insulting User Interface. In addition, the drive size limits your recording storage if used for HD, and cannot be expanded.

Look, if I had NO choice I would be right there with you and use it and try to be happy about it. I am not putting you down for using Direct.

But fortunately I can receive the uncompressed HD off the air for free, and I use Comcast for HD ESPN and Discovery HD, in addition to KQED -PBS- HD out of SF. And the Discovery HD off Comcast is way more detailed than I ever saw in my multiple years of Direct HD.

There are two other options for HD in our area. PM me if you want to discuss.

regards,
patrick

I understand all about HD-Lite.

But let's put it this way: HD-Lite football, with all teams, beats the hell out of having to watch the lame Raiders every week.

... Their HD is 1280 x 1280, to save transponder bandwidth. True HD is 1920 x 1280.You probably meant to type 1080 instead of 1280 for the vertical resolution.

Good catch. corrected.

patrick

ps...I got caught up...ha ha ha

Take a look at KCAH, channel 25.1. Is it in HD?

Watching KQED, I noticed a new bug: KQED, KCAH, KTEH

KTEH is now in HD, so I suspect KCAH is too. Apparently the three stations are now simulcasting the HD programming.

KTEH looks better than KQED! It doesn't have four sub-channels fighting for bandwidth like KQED does, so there is less pixelation on 54.1. I suspect it's the same on KCAH.

I'd appreciate it if someone down there in the Monterey-Salinas-Watsonville area confirmed the HD for me so that I could update my channel list. Thanks!

Larry
SF

KCAH is now broadcasting 5 digital channels. You can view PBS HD on 25.1 and it even includes Dolby Digital 5.1 sound on some programs; it is the same programming as on 9.1 and 54.1. On subchannel 25.2 is Spanish programming called "V me". On subchannel 25.3 is World, the same as KQED World on 9.3. Subchannel 25.4 is Life, the same as KQED Life on 9.4. Subchannel 25.5 is Kids, the same as KQED Kids on 9.5.

You may have to rescan or manually add these channels to receive them. If manually adding them, remember that digital channel 25 actually transmits on UHF channel 58.

It should be noted that HD programming begins at 5pm and the subchannels are in SD.

KSBW-TV this morning announced the production of a 10 p.m. newscast airing on KSBW's digital weather channel "KSBW Weather Plus."KSBW Action News 8 at 10:00" is a half-hour newscast anchored by Dan Green and Erin Clark, with lead forecaster Jim Vanderzwaan, and Dennis Lehnen on sports.
Viewers can watch the 10 p.m. newscast on KSBW Weather Plus, over the air on digital channel 8-2, on Comcast digital cable channel 186, or live on the station's Web site theKSBWchannel.com.

link http://www.californianonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070312/NEWS01/70312004

does anyone in the monterey bay area pick up FSN (Fox Sports Net) Bay Area in HD with OTA or a QAM tuner?

I see that I can watch Action news at 10 PM on 8-2 since i live in the terroritory near KSBW's sister station, KCRA which it is already in HD. I'm wondering when will KSBW go to HD because they aren't in HDTV as of yet?

I see that I can watch Action news at 10 PM on 8-2 since i live in the terroritory near KSBW's sister station, KCRA which it is already in HD. I'm wondering when will KSBW go to HD because they aren't in HDTV as of yet?

I ask the same question about a month ago

here is what I got for an answer

HDdude24....not sure what you are asking?

There is no connection with digital and HD other than incidental. In other words, a station can be transmitting in digital format but not sending a thing in HD. Digital and HD are not one in the same, though it often seems like that is how they are perceived.

So none of them are required to transmit anything, news or otherwise, in HD. They are, however, soon to be legally made to transmit digitally - which most of them are already doing.

KSBW can't seem to get their act together with production & PQ (garbled audio, tape that looks like a 6th gen copy, etc.) for their SD newscast, so I hate to think about the trouble they would have with new technology & HD equipment. If they do invest in new gear, they should also invest in a Valium prescription for Andrea Menetti. :p

i live in marina and I just got a westinghouse 32w6 over the weekend and I have been receiving HBO in HD with my QAM tuner, sadly, today, HBO isn't there anymore and I always look forward to watching it...

the thing is i also bought an OTA antenna today to get some HD channels and I hope that didn't interfere with anything. Noticing that HBO wasn't picking up, I tried doing a channel scan without the antenna with QAM (using basic cable) and still no HBO.

does this channel go on and off sporadically? I will still be happy if I get to view it at random times... anyone know?

when I first tried a QAM tuner in santa cruz, I would get HBO sporadically. once comcast finally came out with a hd dvr, I stopped using the tuner so I don't know if HBO is still coming in like that.

ABC *is* available in HD with the QAM tuner though. since it's not available with the comcast box, we used the QAM tuner to watch the academy awards.

i live in marina and I just got a westinghouse 32w6 over the weekend and I have been receiving HBO in HD with my QAM tuner, sadly, today, HBO isn't there anymore and I always look forward to watching it...

the thing is i also bought an OTA antenna today to get some HD channels and I hope that didn't interfere with anything. Noticing that HBO wasn't picking up, I tried doing a channel scan without the antenna with QAM (using basic cable) and still no HBO.

does this channel go on and off sporadically? I will still be happy if I get to view it at random times... anyone know?


I think you happened to buy your 32wb on a weekend when HBO was having a free premier(?)

Greg

I think you happened to buy your 32wb on a weekend when HBO was having a free premier(?)

Greg

that is probably the answer then.. thanks

Newbie HDTV Questions.

I am posting this as a reply because I am a brand new AVS member and after much wandering around I could not find any place to start a new thread. (I know that I've somehow missed the obvious, and I apologize.)

So this may not be the right place to ask my "beginning amateur novice" questions. If so, please tell me where I should post this message, and how to get there.

To Anyone:

My 20 year old analog CRT Proton TV died (no picture, buzzing sound, funny "burning" smell; turning off and unplugging and discarding seemed to be the best response), so I decided to move into modernity and acquire a "Digital" Sony Bravia LCD 23" KDL-23S2010 television.

In Monterey California, I am a Comcast cable subscriber, and I had expected to need a cable box (never had one with the Proton) to receive "digital" channels, but my new TV apparently gets some "digital" channels as well as "analog" channels without a cable box.

Some questions, the answers to which I could not find in the FAQs here:

1) Analog channels are from stations that broadcast "over the air" (or otherwise originate) analog signals, that Comcast distributes in analog, but that my TV converts to digital format in order to display them. Correct?

2) An analog channel's native display always is 4:3 (e.g. "narrow"), and on a Digital TV such as my Sony, for an analog channel a "wide" setting on a Digital TV will always stretch the picture horizontally (making people look fatter than otherwise) --- unless the standard (narrow) setting has a black band at the top and/or bottom. Correct?

3) Digital channels are from stations that broadcast "over the air" (or otherwise originate) digital signals (probably in addition to an analog signal), that Comcast distributes in digital format, and that my TV does not need to convert. Correct?

4) A digital channel may or not be a High Definition channel. Correct?

5) Whether or not a digital channel is High Definition, its "native" display always is "wide" (e.g. 16:9). Correct?

6) As I use the remote's up and down "rocker switch" channel selector, the "native" screen widths vary channel by channel (although I can always change the widths with another button). Does the "native" width (apparently either 16:9 or 4:3) give me any clue about what type of channel I am receiving?

7) Comcast's website gives me a list of local channels (availability of course depending on subscription): some analog, some listed as "Digital Broadcast," some as "Digital Classic," some as "High Definition."

In Comcast's list, all of the channel numbers are whole numbers (e.g 5, 20, 702, 736).

But on my Sony TV, the "digital" channels have (non-consecutive) decimal numbers ranging from 9.1, 9.2, 83.1, up to 124.2 (e.g. 9.1 is KQED, and 124.2 is the Weather Channel).

Is there a list anywhere of how to "map" Comcast's whole numbers into the Sony's digital numbers?

Thanks for any help, suggestions, or comments.

Roger Folsom

it's been a whole month since a new post, anything new in monterey?

Directv H-20 with radio shack "star trek" antenna get all local channels all the 8-DTs 25-DTs, 35DT. 46-sDT at first had a RCA amplified antenna got all the channels but had to move the antenna around,Radio shack antenna never have to move works great here.

What is this star Trek antenna you are speaking of? make and model?

it's been a whole month since a new post, anything new in monterey?


I Just read on the Bay area comcast thread about a deal with comcast. If you have digital cable for over a year they will give you up to 3 maybe 4 (depending on what CSR you talk to) free DCT 700 stbs (free for the first year). I just ordered mine (from a confused CSR-she admitted she new nothing about how tvs worked and had never done this promo before so would call me back in 15 minutes).

I have several beefs with comcast-including them repeatedly saying that they are going to add more HD in Santa Cruz and not doing wo. But if I can really get these STB's for free then it will keep me happy for a while.

Works well. Go to radio shack it is remote controlled black plastic with a round antenna on top. Theres only one like that on their web site

Works well. Go to radio shack it is remote controlled black plastic with a round antenna on top. Theres only one like that on their web site

what's the make and model? im having a hard time finding it

Ok here is one for you guys. My Dad just bought a Phillips 63" Plasma with analog and Digital receivers built in. He has just regular comcast basic with expanded channels, hasn't purchased digital service yet. When first hooked up to comcast the auto scan gave us 300+ digital channels plus the over air of some hdtv signals like KION, KSBW and PBS. On the comcast side it gave channels like 104.2 and other high numbers with point numbers. I can not figure out where these channels are coming from. They are not on any comcast list. Also KTVU, KCBA, KION, KSBW and KGO are coming in on 118.1- like 118.7. Are these HD capable channels. And one last thing is that I seem to get the terrestrial signal of KION- DT on 46.1 but not getting its CW on 46.2, don't get KCBA-DT ON 35.1 BUT get KSBW-DT ON 8.1 AND WEATHER PLUS ON 8.2 This all has me really confused, and to let you in on that I work at a TV station and it has some of the engineers baffled.

15-1892 model number.

On the Bay Area Comcast thread there is an announcment stating that two more HD channels will be added in Santa Cruz-VS/Golf HD and Universal HD on or about May 16th

YEAH!!!!

I might not have to switch to Dish.

Hi all,

I'm in downtown Santa Cruz by Louden Nelson. I'm using an ATI HDTV Wonder card (and the included indoor antenna) in an XP Media Center Edition PC. I wonder if any of you know why Media Center can't tune all of the channels that ATI's software can? With MCE, I only get NBC, but with ATI's software I can get a bunch of PBS channels and other stuff as well (don't have the call letters or channel numbers handy).

I've tried adding the channels manually, and MCE seems to know what they are (it gets the call letters right) but it gets no signal at all on any channel besides NBC.

Thanks!

Hello.

I'm not specifically familiar with the two devices you use, though I certainly have heard of them.

Are you saying the Media Edition is a tuner, and compared to the ATI tuner it isn't able to capture the same channels?

If yes, then is the Media Center up to date? There are certainly differences between tuners, but this sounds really dramatic. Like something is misconfigured on the ME? Are there settings on the ME tuner which allow for digital AND analog reception? You'll get very little analog in your location, due to line-of-sight obstruction. Digital may find a way to snake into your area, as evidenced by the ATI.

I speculate you can fix this.

patrick

Thanks for the reply, Patrick. Media Center is Microsoft's home theater PC software, including TV viewing and time-shifting. The ATI HDTV Wonder is the only tuner I have (it's a PCI expansion card installed in my PC).

The HDTV Wonder comes with it's own TV viewing software, but it is not very user-friendly. That's why I prefer the Media Center software -- except of course that it doesn't tune all the same channels as the ugly ATI sotware! Media Center is up to date, as are the ATI drivers. I did have to install a driver hack to get around the fact that Media Center does not recognize the HDTV Wonder's analog tuner.

So, I'm a bit stumped as to how different TV viewing software could have such different results with the same hardware. Besides manually adding the channels (MCE initially tunes only the channels it knows about from it's downloaded program guide) I don't know what else to try!

Thanks for the reply, Patrick. Media Center is Microsoft's home theater PC software, including TV viewing and time-shifting. The ATI HDTV Wonder is the only tuner I have (it's a PCI expansion card installed in my PC).

The HDTV Wonder comes with it's own TV viewing software, but it is not very user-friendly. That's why I prefer the Media Center software -- except of course that it doesn't tune all the same channels as the ugly ATI sotware! Media Center is up to date, as are the ATI drivers. I did have to install a driver hack to get around the fact that Media Center does not recognize the HDTV Wonder's analog tuner.

So, I'm a bit stumped as to how different TV viewing software could have such different results with the same hardware. Besides manually adding the channels (MCE initially tunes only the channels it knows about from it's downloaded program guide) I don't know what else to try!

You will probably get a better answer to your question if you post it in the "HDTV Reception Hardware" section and/or the "Home Theater Computer" section of AVSforum.

Hi again,

Thanks again for the responses. Just in case any area folks are trying out Windows Media Center, I thought you'd want to know that I solved the mystery of the missing PBS channels. The downloaded guide information had an incorrect physical channel number for KCAH. I found this article explaining how to remedy the problem:

"Troubleshooting ATSC Issues in MCE" (you'll have to Google it -- I can't post URLs cause I'm a noob)

The images are broken for me, but the page is quite interesting and useful to anyone with a computer HDTV tuner. It describes some tools for troubleshooting stream encoding problems, which will be interesting to anybody who likes to know the gruesome details.

I just received a message on my comcast DVR saying that 4 new HD channels will be added tomorrow-Nat Geo, TNT, ESPN-2, and VS/Golf. Originally I was informed that it would be only 2 -VS/Golf and Universal. I hope the message is correct!!!

GBruno....where are you? What city, etc.?

I'm in Santa Cruz city, up on the hill. I thought our 550mHz system was not capable of upgrades at this time. How can they add these channels and not provide a properly mapped ABC HD?

thanks

regards,

patrick

^^^^ Patrick, I thought as much as well. But I am in Aptos and received the message last night. I was expecting VS/golf and Universal HD based on information from the SF thread. Even getting two new HD channels would have surprised me as I thought (and think) that we are 550. I will keep my fingers crossed for all of us and report back with an update tomorrow!

GOOD NEWS...

All four channels-NGCHD on 715; VSGLF on 721; ES2HD on 724 and TNTHD on 726 are up and running. Wonder if a QAM rescan will pull in anything new?? I will try tonight.

Does this mean our headend has been updated?

They are there. No program guide, I am making the assumption the Tivo service will latch onto this upgrade/addition.

Sweet.

Thanks for the heads-up.

WHY NO ABC HD with mapped channels????????? Anyone have any insight? It can no longer be argued it is a bandwidth issue.


regards,

patrick

Yes I agree.

ABC HD seems the logical (well at least to me) choice to add. In the SF thread a post stated that more (unspecified) channels would be coming by fall. I am willing to wait as a switch to Sat. would be a big hassle for me.

I have no Guide data yet on the new channels. I did file a report with Tivo (I use Series 3 units with cable cards) and it'll get fixed soon.

I am assuming COMCAST made this upgrade secretive, and did not alert their cable card base of users.

Do you folks get the Guide data with your Comcast DVRs?

regards,

patrick

I do not use cable cards. My DVR had the updated guide data within 24 hours of the new channels.

Bruno, where are you located? Are you getting these new channels with an HDTV Satellite? or QAM tuner?

I am in Aptos. I use the Comcast (Motorola ) HD-DVR.

I am in Santa Cruz city on COMCAST, and use a Series 3 Tivo with Cable Cards. Same channels, far superior HD DVR ;-)

regards,

patrick

Yes, I am waiting for the correct timing to dump my Motto-However, there are rumors that COmcast is working with Tivo to enable us to download the Tivo software onto the motto HD-DVR (Which is annoyingly crappy).

COMCAST had a working demo at CES. However, the core hardware used by COMCAST is so limiting the use of the device, regardless of the GUI, will be less than a full experience.

I would vote to hold onto the Moto since you already have it, and then you can judge once the new software is loaded (at a small additional fee per month, I have read).

The S3 is my choice, however. Using the Amazon.com "Unbox" to download movies to the unit replaces the on-demand for our uses. It's not an exact replacement, but it comes close. Seeing what is recording on the two tuners on the front panel, having built in Ethernet, being able to program recordings via the web when not at home, etc, etc.

Hang in there. Meanwhile, the Guide information is now appearing for the four new HD channels. Sweet. Took a little over a week after filling out the form at the Tivo site.

patrick

I've got a quick question: Because I'm cheap (and I really don't watch that much television) I only want to get ABC, CBS, NBC and PBS in HD. What package should I order? I currently own two HDTV QAM tuners (an LG HDTV/DVD combo and a Sony HDDVR). If I remember correctly, Comcast must (by law) provide these channels "in the clear" in their basic digital cable package ($16.21) (i.e. they cannot by law scramble them). I'm thinking that I do not need to order their +$5.00 HDTV option.

If anyone can provide their thoughts, I'd appreciate it. Also, I live in Monterey (if that makes a difference).

Justin

I cannot comment on "the law" but I've not found all of the network on my Tivo Series 3 (QAM tuner) when used without the cable cards. I can find ABC and PBS, and if I recall NBC. But the other networks I've never seen unmapped. I also haven't looked too hard.

$5.00 is too much to make it easy? Can you not get them all over the air in HD for free (or for the cost of an antenna or two)?

regards,

patrick

In Santa Cruz (ok Aptos) I currently can get ABC, CBS, NBC and PBS in the clear. OTA I can get all these except for ABC which transmits out of SF.

I should add that I have had a QAM tuner for about 6 months. And in this time Comcast has turned on/off/on (or scrambled) CBS and NBC. Currently they have been on continuously since they added the other HD channels (TNT, National Geo, VS/Golg, and ESPN 2) to their HD package. I suspect the reason why they were unavailbe was because of upgrading the headend but I have no real evidence of this!

Hope this helps

Patrick & GBruno,
Many Thanks. It does in fact help. I currently have an OTA antenna and watch/record NBC, CBS and Fox. I'd like to add PBS and ABC. I'll start with the Basic Digital and then see if I "need" addition equipment from Comcast in order to get those channels in HD. I'll post back once I figure it all out (at my age, it may take a while!).

Justin

weatheryoko...

You'll get ABD HD on 7-1, using the tuners, and you'll also find PBS-HD on 9-1.

Have you tried to receive the (somewhat recently in HD)) PBS HD off of 25-1 (this is remapped KTEH) in Salinas?

Regardless, combined with what you receive for free, the basic digital package will net you the missing HD channels you seek.

Good luck, post what happens.

regards,
patrick

Thanks for the post patrick. Well after calling Comcast, I found out that there is no such thing as "Basic Digital Cable". Their Basic Cable is analog. If I wanted to get those HD channels (i.e ABC, CBS, etc), I would have to get their "Digital Starter" package. Seeing that they (Comcast) wanted $53.00 a month for this service and I already get most (not quite all) of the channels I want, I find it hard to justify this expense. I'll just continue to pull NBC, CBS, Fox, and the CW from my OTA antenna. I'd like to get ABC, but it's not worth $53.00 a month. I'm going to re-try PBS again using my OTA antenna. Thanks again to Patrick and GBruno for your help.

Justin

Hi,
I'm in Santa Cruz yacht harbor area just got into HDTV with Panasonic 700U plasma. I have Tivo-3 with 2 cablecards with Comcast. I noticed a few locals here on this forum also have similar Tivo-3 setup on Comcast.

As you may know, there is no KGO-DT (7.1) that I was able to get on the QAM tuner on the TV or Tivo-3 without cable cards. Are we are out of luck using Tivo on KGO-DT (7.1) until or if Comcast (aka "Costcast") adds KGO-DT?

Also, does anyone have an OTA antenna recommendation for this area in case I decide to try OTA for better quality digital ? Attic mount required?

-Crackers

The ABC-HD issue is a mystery to everyone, especially given the recent addition of FOUR HD channels. Can't use the old capacity argument anymore, can they? You are SOL for using the cable cards and getting ABC-HD.

The Series 3 is a sweet box. If you have the stock hard drive, you can easily expand and use the external USB port, which you probably already know.

I wrote KOGO a letter explaining they are losing market, if they give a hoot. They don't, so I don't either!

As far as OTA, location is the issue. Do you have clear line of sight to Salinas? We have an odd mix of channels used for HD. There are two NBC feeds - one off Loma Prieta and one in Salinas, for example.

Use this link, to Antenna Web.org, to see where channels are relative to your position. http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx

Then I, and others, can help once you determine if you have line of sight in the correct directions.

I use a Winegard "Squareshooter" for CBS, PBS and a tuned (for low VHF) yagi for FOX and NBC.

regards,

patrick

From my attic, about 35 feet above street level, I look in the direction of the Salinas towers and KION tower. Looks like the top of a 4 story condo blocks the way, about 1 block away. Otherwise, straight shot over the Bay. I may have a slight chance to get a few more feet elevation, manuever around and get the VHF's to be near the top edge of the building. Any chance this might work on VHF?

-Crackers

I have not been getting ABC-HD via QAM for at least a week. Anyone else having this issue??? KQED is also missing I think.

Obviously not HD programming at this hour of the afternoon, but it's there as up-converted SD.

Are you not getting anything on 7-1?

I'll check tonight when Prime Time starts and see what I receive.

regards,

patrick

7.1 is gone for me...my guess is that I have to many splitters on the line (7 that I can recall). I will get an amp. Thanks Patrick.

Something else has happened.

Before you buy a noise-adding amp, isolate the issue. Reduce your cable feed to a single, unsplit feed and see if you can receive the channel. Add the splits, etc., until you lose it. Each split whacks the signal by around 1.5db, though this was likely far more of an issue when the signalswere analog, not digital. (this should date me pretty well).

Did you recently add/subtract/change something? This stuff doesn't just vanish for no reason.

patrick

I have not recently changed anything. That Channel has always been weak however. It will come in fine for up to an hour then break up more and more until we just tune to SD. I have a freestanding QAM tuner which I first thought was at fault but it does not do it with other channels??

I will give your suggestions a try. Thanks again!

I'm just glad that KSBW will stay on channel 8, KSBW's sister station, KCRA will move to channel 35 and thus it will likely mean that KCRA will become KCRA 35 instead of KCRA 3

Plus it will avoid the confusion of what will happen in 2009.

Please explain what you mean, cite your sources, etc. Gbruno and I were talking about ABC-HD on Comcast.

We're talking about HD channels. 8 is not HD on 8 over the air, it maps to another channel, etc.

???? You lost me.

regards,

patrick

I'm just glad that KSBW will stay on channel 8, KSBW's sister station, KCRA will move to channel 35 and thus it will likely mean that KCRA will become KCRA 35 instead of KCRA 3

Even though it sounds stupid... at least to me... the FCC ruled a while back that all stations will continue to identify themselves with their analog channel number after the analog shut down. This, supposedly, is to keep viewers from being confused.

The channel ID and the actual channel will only coincide for a very few channels: KGO-7, KSBW-8, KXTV-10, KCAH-25, KICU-36, and KTXL-40. All of the other stations will be transmitting on their present digital channel or a new one, not on their present analog channel.

To me, having KTVU call itself channel 2 when it'll actually be on channel 44 and KBCW call itself 44 when it's on 45 is what's going to be confusing! There are other similar occurences. See the entire channel line up for after the analog shutdown, February 17, 2009, at: http://www.choisser.com/sfonair.html - it's at the bottom of the page.

Larry
SF

Hi All,

FYI, I recently ordered a Terrestrial Digital DB2 antenna and mounted it outside under the eaves of my second story apartment. Despite the massive Police station on Center St. and a clump of trees in my yard being between me and the towers, I receive KION, KCBA, KSBW, KSMS and KCAH quite well. I'm using Windows Media Center for program guide and DVR functionality (going to need more disk space ASAP) and couldn't be happier watching Wimbledon (for free!) in HD.

Though it is confusing, I think that stations that will stay on their channels will at least be less confusing.

Yesterday, August 6, the FCC released the new DTV Table which provides television stations with their final channel assignments for after the DTV transition on February 17, 2009.

There were no channel changes for the San Francisco Bay Area from the preliminary list published several months ago, but there were a few power and antenna height changes.

I have updated the listing on my web site at:
http://www.choisser.com/sfonair.html
You'll find the final assignments for this area (San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose, Monterey, Salinas, Sacramento, Stockton, Marin and Sonoma counties, and all places in between) at the bottom of the page in numerical order of the final channel number. Included is the Call Sign, City of License, Transmitter Location, Effective Radiated Power (ERP) and the antenna height (HAAT-Height Above Average Terrain).

To read all of the FCC's comments and their reasons for making certain assignments, take a look at:
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publ...CC-07-138A1.pdf

If you want to see the entire list of final channel assignments for the country, you'll find it at:
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publ...CC-07-138A2.pdf

One final note of interest. How many stations will be operating in the lower VHF channel 2-6 segment after February 17, 2009? Due to interference from electrical and natural sources to digital operation in this band, most stations have decided to stay out of this frequency segment. There is only one station in all of California, channel 3 in Eureka. Nationally,
Channel 2 - 7 stations
Channel 3 - 7 stations
Channel 4 - 2 stations
Channel 5 - 13 stations
Channel 5 - 8 stations
Total of all stations: just 37

Larry
SF

I was browsing some of the out of my area UHF stations this morning and saw a lot of interference to KCNS 38. I moved the antenna down to Salinas and with the help of the FCC database, I see that K56AA analog is now on 38 running 114 KW, up from it's 1.1 KW on 56. When did this start up? I hope you all enjoy your upgraded shopping channel. :)

I wonder why the FCC is allowing new analog stations on the air only 18 months out from the transition? I know stations like K56AA don't have an analog cutoff date yet, but still........

Chuck

Is 46-01 out?

working fine in SC.

hmm I most lost it first time ever. grrr don't fill like going on the roof!

Hey,

Yesterday, I could not watch football on 46-01 over my D* vip-622 OTA tuner. But I was able to get a good signal using my Sony kdf-e50a10 OTA tuner.

Has 46-01 gotten weaker? It use to be our strongest signal.

Chad...
Prundale

It was a PSIP problem. KION was on 32-3. It's fixed and everything is back to normal now.

Anyone around here have Dirct TV? I am intersted in opinions about the new HD channels. How do they look (and would you be willing to post what HD channels are now available)? I am wanting to get some local feedback cuz it is sure looking tempting!

Hey,
Yesterday, I could not watch football on 46-01 over my D* vip-622 OTA tuner. But I was able to get a good signal using my Sony kdf-e50a10 OTA tuner.

Has 46-01 gotten weaker? It use to be our strongest signal.

Chad...
Prundale

I have a vip 211 seems the same to me.


It was a PSIP problem. KION was on 32-3. It's fixed and everything is back to normal now.

I did a rescan that day 32-2 didn't come up?

Anyone around here have Dirct TV? I am intersted in opinions about the new HD channels. How do they look (and would you be willing to post what HD channels are now available)? I am wanting to get some local feedback cuz it is sure looking tempting!

This link has everything you want to know about the new and exisiting HD channels on DirecTV. Subsequent posts describe the picture quality ad nauseam. Generally, the HD community is pleased with the picture quality and channel selection on DirecTV.

I have been a DirecTV HD subscriber for several years and I think the quality is on a par with the off the air signals I see locally (KION-DT, KSBW-DT, KCBA-DT, and KQED/KTEH-DT).

I should caution you that there will be several posts at this link whining about stretched 4:3 content passed off as bona fide HD content. My comparisons refer to actual HDTV broadcasts on these various channels and when it is true HD, it looks terrific on my 55 inch Sony SXRD RPTV.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11730714#post11730714

Here is a quick list of the ones currently active on DirecTV ..

Current HD Channels

MPEG2 Channels
ESPN HD (206/73)
ESPN2 HD (209/72)
(Discovery) HD Theater (76)
HDNet (79)
HDNet Movies (78)
TNT HD (245/75)
Universal HD (74)
CD USA (101)
HBO HD East (70/501/509)
Showtime HD (71/537/543)


MPEG4 RECENT ADDITIONS


A&E HD (265)
Animal Planet HD (282)
Big Ten HD (220)
CNN HD (202)
Discovery HD (278)
History Channel HD (269)
TLC HD (280)
NFL Network HD (212)
Science Channel HD (284)
Smithsonian HD (267)
TBS HD (247)
Versus HD / Golf Channel HD (604)
Weather Channel HD (362)
The Movie Channel HD (544)
SHO Too HD (538)
Showtime HD West (540)
Starz Comedy HD (519)
Starz HD East (520)
Starz HD West (521)
Starz Edge HD (522)
Starz Kids and Family (518)

Are you implying the Monterey bay area now gets the MPEG 4 channels you list? When did this happen?

Leftcoast - you seem to gloss the clearly understood issue of down-rezzing of the HD Lite channels by the satellite providers. This is not some subjective misinformation - it is a measurable fact. They send out 1280 x 1080 instead of 1920 x 1080. In addition they compress it. The compression is the gray area though it is again measurable - namely, can you see it? I sure can but it is not always an issue, to be honest, it seems to vary as they see fit?

I am not interested in arguing if you like it or not, only that it is grossly in error to assert it is HD - is simply is not. It is one of those ambiguities that they can get away with.

I have a 58" 1080P plasma. The difference between Direct's HD Lite (using Discovery channel as one benchmark) versus Comcast Discovery HD is visible and quite pronounced. This is the best apples-apples which can be used.

Off the air, well I tend to agree with you as I had Direct, OTA and cable for a brief period concurrently as I tossed Direct. The Comcast local HD feeds are no better nor worse than a solid OTA feed. And of course we all share the stupidity of ABC HD. Like, due to the protectionist FCC the satellites cannot provide it, and Comcast send its out, but only out in the muck of the QAM unmapped and thus even using Comcast gear you do NOT receive ABC HD. How stupid is this?

Unfortunately for everyone, the multi-casting of the locals in HD results in a seriously impaired HD signal - block pixels in fast motion are the most easily perceived negative. Even the awesome PBS feed is whacked into like four channels.

But on other than local HD, the Comcast HD offerings are visibly superior to Direct Or Dish. Easily seen, not compressed. Ever try to watch a basketball game on Direct TNT HD? Hideous block artifacting. Not a trace on cable.

I am NO Comcast fanboy, far from it! But I am also not drinking the Direct Kool Aide with their specious HD, down-rezzed offerings. What's next, the 24 Hour Fireplace Channel in HD? ;-)

And they just announced it is 100, not 150 channels, and by the end of the year. Only, that's ONLY for the MPEG4 areas and they don't say WHAT year.

Facts are friendly. ;-)

regards

patrick

To bad there are no electronics stores with identical, side by side HDTVs. One with Direct, one with Dish, then COmcast and then OTA.

Folks like me who love HDTV but hate all the confusion might then be able to make a more informed decison.

Patrick and Leftcoastdave I appreciate your info. I assumed that we were in a MPEG 4 area and that MPEG 4 was considerably better than 2. Maybe I will wait to see what comast does to respond to this. I have asked at the Santa Cruz office if COmcast is upgrading/adding more HDTV to this area and have been told a wide range of responses (from we have already been upgraded, to there are no plans to upgrade).

Dave sent me email indicating the MPEG4 stuff is alive on Direct. That would mean HD locals out of LA, which is a good thing for all local subscribers. So if you have Direct, or wish to get it, you have quite a large number of channels from which to choose.

I have not personally seen the MPEG4 material. On paper, the compression scheme results in great bandwidth savings. Unfortunately, Direct has shown they have a complete disregard for the customer by parsing a seriously reduced HD signal so I doubt their new MPEG4 channels are any better than their MPEG2. This means block artifacts and keeping things right on the edge. It is, after all, their satellite system so they can send out whatever seriously thinned-out channels they wish.


regards,
patrick

I just decided to not switch to Direct (for a while at least) and then I read your last post Patrick.

Sorry for the rookie question here but does getting Local HD's out of LA mean I would get ABC/CBS/NBC/FOX in HD via Direct? IF not what does it mean?

thanks

Yes, that would mean you could receive those in HD. But you would need Direct's MPEG4 units, either receiver or DVR. I'm sure you can finesse them for free if you say you are switching from cable.

Dave knows all of those tricks. Maybe he'll chime in to help you.

patrick

Are you implying the Monterey bay area now gets the MPEG 4 channels you list? When did this happen?
As of 9/26/07, D* lit up the new MPEG4 HD channels on the sat at the 103 location. With the new 5lnb dish and MPEG4 receivers (H20,HR20) anyone in Monterey with a clear view of the southern sky should be able to receive the new channels.

What is not available via D* is the Monterey-Salinas HD locals. D* will be launching a new Sat (D11) soon which is destined to provide HD locals to additional markets. Hopefully the Monterey-Salinas DMA will be one of the markets receiving HD locals from the new sat. D* has not made any announcements yet as to when and if we will get HD locals.

Leftcoast - you seem to gloss the clearly understood issue of down-rezzing of the HD Lite channels by the satellite providers. This is not some subjective misinformation - it is a measurable fact. They send out 1280 x 1080 instead of 1920 x 1080. In addition they compress it. The compression is the gray area though it is again measurable - namely, can you see it? I sure can but it is not always an issue, to be honest, it seems to vary as they see fit?
It is true that both D* and E* are downrezzing some of the HD channels. There has been a lot of discussion on this topic on the Sat boards(check out dbstalk.com). Many people believe that the new MPEG4 channels on D* are *not* downrezzed but I don't think anyone has verified this for sure.

I am not interested in arguing if you like it or not, only that it is grossly in error to assert it is HD - is simply is not. It is one of those ambiguities that they can get away with.
I agree with you that these transmissions don't meet the HDTV "spec". The degree to which this is noticeable to the end user is dependent upon the TV being used. Most current 16:9 plasmas and LCDs are scaling content to a native resolution which is lower than 1920x1080.

I have a 58" 1080P plasma. The difference between Direct's HD Lite (using Discovery channel as one benchmark) versus Comcast Discovery HD is visible and quite pronounced. This is the best apples-apples which can be used.
I don't know if any of the new D* HD channels are carried by Comcast. It would be interesting to use your 1080p plasma to compare one of the new D* MPEG4 HD channels with the same channel on Comcast.

BTW, it's important to remember that a TV described as "1080p" can mean a couple of different things. It can mean that the native resolution of the TV is 1080p, and/or the TV has the capability to accept an input signal at 1080p resolution. It is possible to have a TV which will accept a 1080p signal, but the same TV may scale the input signal to a lower native resolution.

And of course we all share the stupidity of ABC HD. Like, due to the protectionist FCC the satellites cannot provide it
You can receive ABC HD via D* - since there is no ABC channel in our DMA, the Sat companies are allowed to provide an out of market channel. So any D* subscriber in the Monterey-Salinas DMA can receive the Los Angeles ABC affiliate in HD. It is true that KGO (the SF ABC affiliate) is not available via D*.

But on other than local HD, the Comcast HD offerings are visibly superior to Direct Or Dish. Easily seen, not compressed. Ever try to watch a basketball game on Direct TNT HD? Hideous block artifacting. Not a trace on cable.
I think the jury is still out on this one as far as the new D* MPEG4 channels are concerned.

And they just announced it is 100, not 150 channels, and by the end of the year. Only, that's ONLY for the MPEG4 areas and they don't say WHAT year.
AFAIK, Monterey-Salinas is an "MPEG4 area". As long as we have line of sight to the 103 sat, the new MPEG4 channels should be receivable in this area. Personally, I have D* but have not upgraded to the MPEG4 capable dish and receiver since I am loathe to give up my HR10-250 TIVO for the D* HR20 DVR. Eventually I will upgrade to an MPEG4 system, but I have used an HR20 at a friend's house and I just don't like it as well as the TIVO. But eventually the desire for additonal HD content will outweigh my love for the TIVO.

I have nothing against Comcast, but I have no desire to get their "triple play", and I have compared pricing for the TV service only. For me D*, offers more content at a lower price. I receive my HD locals OTA so I don't care if D* provides HD locals or not. On my TV the downrezzing of HD is acceptable. When I upgrade my TV I will likely upgrade to MPEG4 or reconsider Comcast.

I agree with your comments.

In my case, and "crackers" as well (further back in the thread), our units are the 1080P native sets.

No arguments about what can be perceived and what prevails in the real world. My beef is simply the way Direct has previously opted (at least until verified with the new stuff) to lower the bar to meet their own needs. I strongly suspect they have not changed anything, but the new MPEG4 scheme is adroit at hiding the artifacts. Heck, ALL of uTube uses a variant of the same MPEG4 scheme. It can look great. The end result should be very pleasing - even though reduced.

If I had no option I would use Direct. But I do - in fact, multiple ones ;-)

regards,
patrick

I just decided to not switch to Direct (for a while at least) and then I read your last post Patrick.

Sorry for the rookie question here but does getting Local HD's out of LA mean I would get ABC/CBS/NBC/FOX in HD via Direct? IF not what does it mean?

thanks

AFAIK, viewers in the Monterey-Salinas DMA can only receive the LA ABC affiliate in HD. It's due to one of those goofy regs described by Patrick - as long as there is a local affiliate, you cannot receive an out of market station for that network. Since we have local NBC,CBS, and Fox affiliates, you won't be able to receive the LA stations for these networks via D*.

However, there are 2 ways to get around this:
1) Write (or have D* contact) the local station asking for a waiver so that you can receive the out of market station. Typically these waiver requests are refused by the local station.
2) Have an engineer conduct a signal test which verifies that you cannot receive the local channel via an antenna. In this case the local affiliate is supposed to grant permission for you to receive the out of market channel.

EDIT: I just realized that option 2 is not available to viewers in the Monterey-Salinas DMA. This is due to the fact that D* provides SD versions of the local channels, so all subscribers in this DMA are able to receive locals via D*. The law does not differentiate between SD and HD, so the fact that D* does not provide HD locals is immaterial.

46-01 out again?

It never was out.

Working fine, same lame halftime show at the moment. ;-)

patrick

hmmm I hate it with does it to me on football sunday!

Try rescanning. It should show up on 32-3. PSIP problems again.

I did do a rescan on my dish vip 211 nothing came up:mad:

I got nothing on my Dish vip 622 either. When I tried to rescan, I got a strong signal strength but no lock. The tuner on my Samsung plasma showed 46-1 on 32-3 and 46-2 on 32-4. Some tuners are better able to handle PSIP issues than others. I called KION and left a message about the problem but they probably won't fix it until tomorrow.

I would of hook it up to my tv tuner, but would been a pain in the butt to unhook the cable and hook it up my tv. yeah my vip 211 did the same thing strong signal but nothing.

The Dish Network receivers do not produce a picture unless they receive PSIP information from the station. If a station looses it's PSIP info, you'll see a signal, but no picture or sound.

Some receivers revert to the transmitter channel number when they don't receive PSIP info, so that's why PGDave was receiving 32-3 and 32-4 on his Samsung.

Some of the older receivers didn't use PSIP, so they continue to work as though nothing happened.

Larry

IUPDATE_ caught a thread on the Tivo forum - it's across the board as Comcast added channels and did not properly notify Tivo, which comes as no surprise.

But though the guide information is appearing on my Tivo Series 3, there is no signal on either. They are both in the HD "700" range.

Anypne else seeing or receiving these?

regards,

patrick