If anyone is interested, KTHV-HD can be picked up in Hot Springs. Due to the weather, I didn't get a chance to mount my antenna on the mast I put up. I just had the antenna laying on the ground in front of my garage with a cable run inside to the tuner. It came in great - however, that was the only station that would come in. It's the only one that I really wanted, so that's ok. Maybe when I put the antenna on the mast and hook up the pre-amp, I'll get a couple more.

I'm pretty bitter about STB's right now. They are selling the Zenith 520s for $250 dollars at circuit city now. I paid twice that just a few months ago, and that was a good deal! (cause they were really 600 dollars).

I ordered a channelmaster 4221A today. Hopefully, i'll have that up ASAP after it comes in.

Azanon,
That's the price you pay for being an early adopter. Had I waited till now to get HD, I would be getting DISH-HD and their new 811 STB, FREE for new customers.

You can always sell the 520 and buy a cheaper one, or a different brand. 520s are selling for $500+ on ebay (http://cgi.*********/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3060372382&category=15071) right now. :)

Where did you get the 4221?

Did you order a preamp? I would, to insure getting the low power stations - especially if you're paying someone to climb your roof and install it.

The CM 7777 VHF/UHF low noise preamps work great.

Originally posted by shaneotool
If anyone is interested, KTHV-HD can be picked up in Hot Springs. What antenna and preamp did you get?

Be sure and install the antenna as high as possible, if you're trying to get more stations in Hot Springs....

Arxaw,

Well if i willing to do that (sell my 520 on ebay), then others should be just as willing to advertise a 500 dollar sat520 on ebay, and go buy the units at circuit city; same difference except even less hassle than me since i'd have to set up a new D* card.

But I do love Ebay - several times ive sold items for the same price i bought them after having used them 1-2 years.

I bought the 4221A at solidsignal.com. I intend to install it myself or have a friend/my dad help me. I'm gonna go without the preamp for the following reasons: 1. I'm plenty close to both redfield (17 miles or so), and shinall (6 miles) that a preamp should not be necessary 2. I get all digital station with my silver sensor sitting in one location, inside my house no less. "surely" the 4221A will perform at least as well (which would be ~ perfect) on the roof of my 2-story house which is sitting on a mountain. 3. Even low noise (as opposed to none) on unneeded amplification would likely be an equal tradeoff, at best. 4. antennaweb.org says i dont need a preamp'ed antenna. 5. the 7777 preamp isnt exactly cheap.

azanon,
WRT the preamp, I was only thinking of saving you a return installer visit, if you end up needing a preamp. How long is your coax run?

Have you scheduled the antenna install yet? If so, who did you get and what was their estimate?

The reason I ask, a friend needs an OTA antenna for his new Dish system, and I *really* don't want to install it for him, if he can get it professionally installed at a reasonable price.

Arxaw,

I mentioned in the previous post I intend to install it myself or have a friend/my dad help out. The install should be straightforward now because all of the cabling is taken care off. I just have to unhook the coax from the batwing, mount the new 4221A, and plug the coax into the 4221a.

My total coax run is probably, ole, 60feet from top of roof to my jack by my TV. That's a total guess, but my house is really tall and the wire comes into the central portion of my house, but my TV is on the far N wall.

Arxaw,

Where are you seeing this deal for dish-HD that includes a free HD STB? Considering they used to charge $600, that sounds almost too good to be true. Post or PM me a link, cause I have a couple friends that might be interested in that.

Azanon

Check out dishdepot.com

This is the deal I'm going to get when/if the 811's ever get released.

arxaw - I have a ChannelMaster 3020 and 7777.

Since I finally got Fox to work right this weekend, i had the opportunity to watch the Cowboys game. I noticed that the game seemed to be running in true widescreen EDTV (480p). It was quite pleasant on the eyes since the screen wasnt distored (via wide mode or pana). How many programs on Fox DT are in EDTV? Just a football game here and there or all of the prime time stuff as well?

Oh and btw, if you're curious, my TV is a 30" Samsung 3098WHF and i've been very pleased with it. It was as large as i could go to fit my TV slot, without having to rip it out of the wall and rebuild it.

Azanon,
A lot of faux prime time is in widescreen, as are many sports events. KLRT-DT doesn't send it 480p. They have the equipment to send it in any format, but Allen upconverts it to 1080i for now, because he said it looked the best for SD/HD upconverts. By late next year,FOX will begin broadcasting 720p HD, and KLRT-DT will likely change to 720p at that time.

WRT the free Dish DVR or HD box for new subscribers, go to the Sears store at I-630 & University. They have tons of brochures on the offer, and can setup an installation appointment. Sears is also pushing VOOM, the new satellite service specializing in HD channels. You can also go by Custom Satellite on W. Markham (near Chip's Barbecue) and talk to the people there about the free DishHD offers. Their brochures are slightly different than Sears, and they seem to be pushing the "Dish Home Plan", which is a STB rental plan, which includes a maintenance agreement and extra monthly fee. Custom Satellite also installs OTA antennas.

The DishHD offer at Sears has two pricing options for the STB:
Free, if you sign up for 2 years of basic programming.
$99, if you sign up for 1 year of basic programming.

If you coax is over 50', I would seriously consider installing a VHF/UHF preamp, when the antenna is installed.

They have the equipment to send it in any format, but Allen upconverts it to 1080i for now, because he said it looked the best for SD/HD upconverts

Ahh, that explains the "interlaced" look to it (shimmer). As for if it was sent 480i or 480p, I probably wouldnt know because my TV would deinterlace it (has 3/2 pulldown) to 480p anyway. I'm a little surprised Allen feels upconvert 1080i looks better. 480p is aweful nice looking and isnt real far behind a true 1080i image, simply because it has no shimmer to it. Also, if i'm not mistaken, the refresh rate is double on progressive (60hz as compared to 30hz?).

On a big screen HDTV, 1080i nearly always looks a lot better than 480p - even when it's only an upconvert. IMO, 480p just looks "soft" compared to 1080i.

Allen's tried every format that KLRT's equipment is capable of, and I would trust his judgement based on studio monitors over us viewers using consumer-grade stuff.

So how does that pseudo HD that fox has compare to the HD of CBS? Is it still loads better that fox on cable?

CBS-HD beats "faux" widescreen, hands down. The difference is very apparent on football games and other CBS-HD shot with HD cams. On film transfers, the difference is slightly less noticeable, but CBS-HD still looks better. Much more detail than faux.

I don't have cable, so I can't compare OTA DTV vs cable. Also, each cable system varies in quality (even from neighborhood to neighborhood). But OTA, KLRT-DT 16-1 looks sharper than KLRT 16 analog, using an OTA antenna 7 miles from the transmitters.

I trust his judgement on that; besides there is insane talk over the bravod1/samsung931 dvd players that are capable of upconverting 480p to 1080i, so I have to assume upconverted 1080i looks better. All i'm saying is that when i toggle my stb setting to 480p on a HD channel, the image, in some ways, looks nicer cause the shimmering goes away. (but overall is much worse cause it isnt HD anymore.

Good point about the TV size - lower resolution isnt as detrimental on a smaller TV. Progressive vs Interlaced is a big change though.

Shane - any true HD image, such as CBS's 1080i football, blows away EDTV (Fox) or non-HD. Its really no comparison. Now 720p vs 1080i - you have a never ending debate. Strangely enough, i very slighly prefer the IQ of ESPN HD football games over CBS's HD football and that shouldnt be the case since my TV is native 1080i.

I guess the main benefit is the widescreen.

Something I've noticed with the HD on CBS in the three days of having it, is how good the colors are. I thought that everything would just be much sharper. I wasn't expecting the vibrant, bright, lifelike colors. It really is awesome. Analog cable looks washed out in comparison.

Yes, in addition to a much sharper picture, HDTV is able to display a *lot* more colors and shades of gray than the old NTSC system. If your set is setup well, using a good setup DVD like Avia, etc. (or professionally ISF calibrated). The image can be even better than the "out of the box" settings on an HD set.

I had to self calibrate mine. I use the DVI port on my TV, but my DVD only has the typical component video outputs. In my service menu on my TV, it has separate settings depending on what port is being utilized so to calibrate one port does nothing for, say, the DVI.

My TV was way off out of the box - both colorwise and geometrywise. Its like a whole new TV compared to out of box settings.

No Hogs in HD this friday. I'm so F'n pissed - I might have to leave work and go home.

hell, they even had all those local commercials with craig o'neil saying it was going to be on HD. This is BS.

I'm gonna use the Cowboys game to show off my HDTV this Thanksgiving. "The guys" from my family are coming to my house to watch the game after having Thanksgiving lunch at one of my cousin's house in LR.

Yeah I was ticked about the LSU game not being on HDTV as well. I figured CBS would want it in HD considering LSU's standing.

shane,
Where did you get this information?

Look here Sam: http://www.sportsline.com/u/cbs/schedule/coll_football.htm

I called KTHV at 501 376-1111
Call and ask to speak to Allison or anyone else in the control room. They said the game would definitely be in HD.

The Networks' and DirecTV's guides are not always accurate, and they do have the "subject to change" disclaimer.....

I'm pretty sure they are mistaken. Remember, they just pass on what is fed to them nationally. I'm almost positive the HD truck that is normally used for the SEC game of the week is being utilized for the Florida vs FSU game.

time will tell....

Ken H, the moderator in HDTV Programming, usually does a great job of making sure everyone's informed about what football games will be in HDTV each week. He is not showing the Arkansas/LSU game as being one of those: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=300607

There is also another thread about Florida vs FSU being in HDTV, and the consensus in that thread is that the truck that would have been used for the arkansas/lsu game is in florida.

Yes, it will. Dont get me wrong - I hope like hell you're right Sam.

Allison returned my call just before noon. No HDTV for LSU vs Arkansas. :-((. She said they were pretty upset about it because they (via O'Neal) had been advertising it for some time.

If anyone should know the facts, she would, so I guess it's true about the "no-HD game"..
:(

I sympathize with Allison. I can't speak for CBS, but FOX and UPN on occasion do provide incorrect information to their affiliates or make a last minute change with no warning. I was looking forward to the game in HD. On well, maybe next year!

From HDTV Programming:

"I am posting this to let people know that ABC will run episodes of its normal primetime programs thanksgiving day in HD. If local stations do not get the word that the programs will be in HD they will not air that way. Also any station people that do not work evenings may have never run an HD program and may not know how to do it. West coast stations also need to switch transponders on their HD receivers to get the west coast HD feed. It is very likely that there will be problems with local stations airing these programs if past experience is any guide.

Rory
KXTV
Sacramento"

Just checked KATV - no one's thrown the switch yet. I have to leave the house so i dont have time to call them.

Azanon

Well found out my fear of heights is still there. I chickened out installing my antenna after climbing up on the first level of my roof (my dish and antenna is on the higher, second level). I was going to try and see if the mast on the back of my dish could handle the weight of the 4221, though i'm pretty sure that's doubtful. If not, i need to buy a mast of some type.

Well, that project is on hold until i run across someone willing to do it at a fair price. If you find anyone to install it for your friend, Sam, let me know cause i might use him/her as well.

Azanon

Well, the antenna is now mounted on the mast. I can get CBS and FOX. The are both coming in about 58%. Strange - when the antenna was just sitting on the ground CBS was 100%. ??

I have a question about the picture quality maybe one of you knows the answer. When I'm watching a football game in HD on CBS, the gameplay shots from far away look great. But when the camera is zoomed in on a player or coach who is moving around, the picture looks almost like a mosaic, or like it's made up out of blocks. When they stop moving - it looks razor sharp again. Is this normal?

...who is moving around, the picture looks almost like a mosaic, or like it's made up out of blocks. When they stop moving - it looks razor sharp again. Is this normal?Unfortunately, yes. This is a limitation of the MPEG encoder. Even with 19.x Mbps, moving video, especially interlaced video, it tough to encode. Hopefully the encoders will improve. And I would suspect that dropping a subtle hint to the local station that the limitation of the encoder are apparent would encourage them to look for upgrades.

Xesdeeni

Thanks Xesdeeni - I thought that was the case.

It kind of detracts from the "you are there" feel when it looks like the players are made out of legos.

I noticed the grid pixellation on the cowboys football game this past thursday. ESPN HD doesnt seem to have that problem - even zoomed in shots are in stunning detail.

I may be wrong, but the way I understand it is that the national networks send the video to the local affiliates in a much higher bandwidth broadcast (hundreds of megabits). This would be virtually without artifacts. The local affiliate processes the video, including adding their own "bug" (channel logo), promos, weather alerts, etc., and then compresses the combined video for broadcast. ESPN-HD probably encodes their own broadcast once to the HD data rate. Their encoder is probably more expensive than the local affiliates can afford. That's why I recommend gently nudging the local affiliates to keep upgrading.

Xesdeeni

I'm about 20 miles from the Helena bridge. Its about 80 miles to Memphis and about 90 miles to Little Rock. Am I out of luck picking up any ota HD? I havent tried and antenna yet. I was looking at one from Radio shack that is 58 tine's with a 120 mile range. Just want to know if I'm wasting my time. I'll post this in the memphis thread also.

sg

I would guess that you are too far away from Little Rock to get anything. Have you tried antennaweb.org to see what they say about your reception?

Here is what I get.

Digital Antenna Type Call Sign Channel Network City State Live Date Compass
Orientation
* blue WPTY-DT 25 ABC Memphis TN Now Live 49°
* blue WREG-DT 28 CBS Memphis TN Now Live 52°
* blue WKNO-DT 29 PBS Memphis TN May 1 2004 53°
* blue WLMT-DT 31 UPN Memphis TN Now Live 49°
* blue WMAV-DT 36 PBS Oxford MS Now Live 103°
* blue WPXX-DT 51 PAX Memphis TN Now Live 51°
* blue WABG-DT 54 ABC Greenwood MS Under Review 166°
violet WREG 3 CBS Memphis TN 52°
violet WMC 5 NBC Memphis TN 51°
violet WABG 6 ABC Greenwood MS 166°
violet WMAV 18 PBS Oxford MS 103°


May have a shot at memphis?

I have been getting audio dropouts on CBS and ABC lately on the digital stations - esp during HD, primetime hour. It was particularily bad on CSI last night. I think it may be related to me using the Silver Sensor instead of the overhead antenna but im not sure. When this happens, the picture does not drop out at all, including no pixellation. Are others experiencing this?

I haven't noticed any audio (or video) dropouts on those stations, although I seldom watch anything on ABC. 11 is rock solid, even during rain & lightning.

The Silver sensor sometimes doesn't work well for VHF stations. How is your analog 11 reception using the Silver Sensor? If you see any snow at all on analog 11, it's also likely you're getting a weak signal on 11-1, which is broadcast on VHF channel 12, and at a much lower power than the analog station (27.5kW for the digital, vs 316kW for the analog.

WRT channel 7-1, their digital station is also low power - roughly the same as channel 11's. That, and increased distance from you may be the reason for the dropouts when using an indoor antenna.

If your signal is weak or multpath plagued, reception can also vary widely when the weather changes. Night vs day reception can also be very different if the signal is marginal.

Another possibility is the DD5.1 signal may be giving you audio problems. Have you tried switching to DPL audio (using the RCA audio L+R jacks) when the dropouts occur?

Originally posted by aquacure
Here is what I get.

Digital Antenna Type Call Sign Channel Network City State Live Date Compass
Orientation
* blue WPTY-DT 25 ABC Memphis TN Now Live 49°
* blue WREG-DT 28 CBS Memphis TN Now Live 52°
* blue WKNO-DT 29 PBS Memphis TN May 1 2004 53°
* blue WLMT-DT 31 UPN Memphis TN Now Live 49°
* blue WMAV-DT 36 PBS Oxford MS Now Live 103°
* blue WPXX-DT 51 PAX Memphis TN Now Live 51°

May have a shot at memphis? You may have a shot at Memphis, but it would be iffy. If their digital stations are low power, forget it. Check the Memphis threads and see if the stations are full power.

If they are full power, try a good antenna + preamp, on a TALL mast. Even then, reception may be weather dependent.

Forget Radio Shaft and their inflated antenna mileage ratings. Also, don't try a VHF/UHF antenna, since all the Memphis stations above appear to be UHF. You would need a high quality long range UHF antenna, like a Channel Master CM 4228 8-bay bowtie (http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/4228.htm). You would also need a high gain, LOW NOISE preamp, like the CM 7777 (http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/7777.htm). If you wanted the Oxford, MS station too, you'd also need an antenna rotator. The CM 4228 antenna is very directional.

So i guess you're indirectly suggesting its possible to have an audio dropout when the video is unaffected on HDTV - which is what is happening in my case. On CBS, the non-digital version is very bad - fuzzy with what looks like 3 images slightly overlapping. ABC has a little better picture on non-digital, but certainly not anywhere near as clear as what you would expect, say, on cable. I dont recall having sound dropouts on either ABC or CBS with my batwing, which is no longer up. This despite even considering that CBS comes in better on my silver sensor - yet i have audio dropouts??

Though i'm using a DD 5.1 audio connection, I only get CBS and ABC the way they are broadcasting the sound - which is 2.0 (stereo). I say that becaues my receiver is supposed to output the sound the way it is being received if i press "A.F.D." button and on all local networks, the receiver chooses 2.0. Yes, i can force the receiver to output the sound to DPL I. I can also use DPL II, but ive heard that is not recommended for stereo sources, rather older movies that were encoded in "regular" dolby surround (DS, or DPLS- not DD). I'm pretty sure that has nothing to do with the dropouts though, since i never get dropouts on most of my satellite stations, which are also usually in stereo (sans HD and movie channels like HBO).

BTW Sam, you should really consider going DD 5.1. It it literally the HDTV of sound. I just watch "Drumline" on HBO this past week which was in DD 5.1 and, OMG, the sound was amazing. I just ordered me a set of Ascend Acoustics, a full 5.1 setup, for christmas to replace my old, and more inferior Advent speakers. They should sound gorgeous - i cant wait!

The 4221A is a work in progress. I found another close friend that has already took down the batwing and vows to come back and install the 4221a once we find an appropriate mast. In return, i'm going to fix his computer.

Azanon

Originally posted by Azanon
So i guess you're indirectly suggesting its possible to have an audio dropout when the video is unaffected on HDTV
Yes, very possible.

...I'm pretty sure [DD] has nothing to do with the dropouts though, since i never get dropouts on most of my satellite stations, which are also usually in stereo (sans HD and movie channels like HBO).
OTA DD audio and DirecTV DD audio are broadcast in different ways, so your comparison is meaningless. I would at least try the RCA audio L+R connections, just to make sure it's not a OTA DD issue. Read this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=319487&highlight=audio+dropouts+OTA) on the subject.

BTW Sam, you should really consider going DD 5.1.
I've heard DD 5.1 many times, and I know it sounds great.
I fully intend to upgrade to a DD5.1 receiver, as soon as the broadcasters get all the kinks ironed out of OTA DD :)

The 4221A is a work in progress. I found another close friend that has already took down the batwing and vows to come back and install the 4221a once we find an appropriate mast. How do you plan to install the 4221? On the dish mast, or a separate mast? I would use separate masts, as the 4221 + sat dish on one mast might be too susceptible to wind movement.

Do you have a brick chimney? That would be a good place to attach the 4221.

I'm new to the Little Rock hdtv world and really like what I see off my Comcast feed. One thing has me puzzled and thought a tech on the forum might me able to answer. It appears that the regular analog output coming from Comcast are a bit soft or smeary when converted to 480i by my Mitsubishi 55". Shouldn't a digitized picture be as sharp as it appears to be in analog? The comcast component output of the same channel looks grainy or noisy so it that part probably has to do with a cheap encoder in that box.

FYI, I hooked up an old bowtie antenna clipped to a drape and plugged it into the digital tuner. Ch38 comes in pretty good most of the time and can get Ch 12.1&.2 if I move around the room a bit. I'm planning to put up a small antenna to backup the cable in case of an outage. It does seem the 480 images encoded by 38 are sharper than what I get through the cable and ch12 about the same.

Is there something I could do to improve the sharpness of the pictures my tv set encodes? Thanks for your time.

Originally posted by wxguy
I'm new to the Little Rock hdtv world and really like what I see off my Comcast feed. One thing has me puzzled and thought a tech on the forum might me able to answer. It appears that the regular analog output coming from Comcast are a bit soft or smeary when converted to 480i by my Mitsubishi 55". Shouldn't a digitized picture be as sharp as it appears to be in analog? The comcast component output of the same channel looks grainy or noisy so it that part probably has to do with a cheap encoder in that box.

FYI, I hooked up an old bowtie antenna clipped to a drape and plugged it into the digital tuner. Ch38 comes in pretty good most of the time and can get Ch 12.1&.2 if I move around the room a bit. I'm planning to put up a small antenna to backup the cable in case of an outage. It does seem the 480 images encoded by 38 are sharper than what I get through the cable and ch12 about the same.

Is there something I could do to improve the sharpness of the pictures my tv set encodes? Thanks for your time.
KASN-DT (UPN) and KTHV-DT (CBS) never broadcast in 480i. They always upconvert everything to 1080i at the station.

Are you using the comcast box to view the analog channels, or are you using the TV's analog tuner?

As I described in my original question, I look at both.
My TV says the off air stuff is HDSD, so however they are encoding it, my base question is why does a 640x480 analog image look soft and smeary when converted to a digitized 480i, 480p, 1080i or whatever it is changing to?

TV sharpness control doesn't make much difference cause they still appear degraded compared to an analog.

If an analog cable signal is excessively noisy, when digitized it will often cause the "soft" problem you describe.

OTA DD audio and DirecTV DD audio are broadcast in different ways, so your comparison is meaningless.

If either my receiver or STB was failing, that information would not be meaningless. It would tell me that is likely the problem since, as you said above, the two are broadcasted in different ways.

I think my audio dropouts are due to poor reception. It was much better today as i found a good spot for my silver sensor. I didn't have audio dropouts with my batwing further suggesting my optical link and/or DD sound is not the problem. I was simply asking if it was just me, or was it you guys as well. Also FYI, disabling DD is not an option anymore than going back to single-definition TV is for me. I know the local networks arnt broadcasting DD at this time, but other stations are and it is simply too much of a pain to swap cables. Forced to choose, i'll take a drop out here and there for DD sound or for HDTV.

My friend is going to try achoring a new mast to my D*'s mast on the back with probably some base support as well. My chimney is siding.

Originally posted by Azanon
FYI, disabling DD is not an option... I didn't mean permanently disabling DD. I was only trying to help narrow down your audio dropout problem.

If you tried the DPL and still got dropouts, I would tend to believe you had a reception problem. If DPL cleared the problem, it would likely be a STB problem or station problem (although the latter would be unlikely).

I am getting ready after the first of the year to go to a HD set. I am waiting for the DirecTv HDTivo to come out in the 1st quarter of the new year. In the mean time, I have been getting set up for local OA reception. I have gotten a CM-7777 and a 9521A rotator. I am still trying to decide between a CM-4228 or a CM-4248 antenna. I live in the Otter Creek area of LR. Has anyone had any experience with either of these antennas and how do you think it will work with the locals HD transmissions since they all seem to be on low power. Thanks for the forum. I have gotten lots of good local information here.

:confused:

Those antennas might be a tad overkill given your location and might cause you to have to tweak the rotor every time you change the station since they are very directional - or moreso than other choices. Maybe consider what i bought, but haven't yet put up yet - the 4221A. You're probably 10 miles or so from shinall mountain, and maybe 25 or so from Redfield.

dlott,

I would keep the CM 7777 preamp, but I agree with Azanon; a CM 4221 would likely work better for you. It is less picky about direction than the antennas you mentioned. And being smaller than the 4228, it is more resistant to wind damage. IIRC, the 4221 also tested out the same to slightly better for highband VHF channels 7-13 than the two antennas you mentioned. (KTHV-DT (CBS) is in the VHF band, on channel 12).

With the CM 4221 + CM 7777 preamp, you may not need a rotor by trying these two options:

1. You may be able to find a "sweet spot" to pick up all the stations by aiming somewhere between the two transmitter locations.

2. If the transmitters are close to 180° opposite of your location (they appear to be, in parts of Otter Creek), you can unclamp and remove the screen on the 4221 and make it a bi-directional antenna. This will cost you some gain, but with the CM 7777 preamp, it shouldn't be a problem. Just tweak it for the weakest station, which is KARK-DT (NBC).

(PBS) KETS-DT should be on the air by next summer, but it will be in the LOW VHF band on channel 5. It will also be very low power, ~2kW ERP, broadcasting from Redfield. You may need to add a separate VHF antenna for that station, since UHF antennas seldom work well for channels 2-6.

The CM 7777 preamp makes it easy to add a separate VHF antenna later. Just open the case and flip the "combined/separate" antennas switch to "separate". Then connect the VHF antenna coax to the "VHF" coax terminal on the preamp. Both antenna signals are combined/amplified in the preamp, and sent to the STB on one coax.

Here's a CM 4221+ CM 7777 preamp + VHF antenna I mounted on my brick chimney:

You may be able to find a "sweet spot" to pick up all the stations by aiming somewhere between the two transmitter locations.

Its interesting that you say that. The sweet spot on my silver sensor which seems to allow me to get all the stations and prevents the dropout problem i was having was by pointing it roughly between the two towers. I have it pointing roughtly 70 degrees where redfield and shinall are roughly 135 degrees and 325 degrees from me, respectively.

That seems odd to me since im sitting on the side of a mountain with the rise of the mountain due WNW of me (290 degreeish).

Originally posted by Azanon
Its interesting that you say that. The sweet spot on my silver sensor which seems to allow me to get all the stations and prevents the dropout problem i was having was by pointing it roughly between the two towers. I have it pointing roughtly 70 degrees where redfield and shinall are roughly 135 degrees and 325 degrees from me, respectively.

That seems odd to me since im sitting on the side of a mountain with the rise of the mountain due WNW of me (290 degreeish). You may be using "bounced" signals off another hill or landmark (water tower, office building, hospital, etc.). The directional nature of the SS allows you to do this. Results are not always reliable, and may change with the weather, seasons, humidity, etc. Everything that affects multipath.

With all the hills and low power digital stations, reception in LR is a crap shoot, at best. What works for you, may not work at all for the next guy, or even your next door neighbor.

-- Sam

Just heard from a reliable source that the WB affiliate in LR, KWBF-DT, is on the "fast track" to get on the air and in High Def. They will be broadcasting from the TCBY tower building on UHF channel 44, which should remap to 42-1 (their analog channel is 42).

Thanks for the info on the WB. I'll be looking for it.
Maybe KARK will get on the "Fast track" someday and bring us NBC hd!

Thanks for the help. Looks like I will be looking out for a CM-4221. arxaw you are correct. It looks like the antenna sites are almost 180 degrees from each other from my house. If it works out I may have a 9521 to sell in a couple months that has never been opened. Thanks for the tip about taking off the screen to get the opposite direction sites, looks like that my work in my case.

dlott,
If you get a 4221 (http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/4221.htm), try aiming "between" the two transmitter sites first, before removing the screen. If no go, then try the screen removal.
http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/4221.jpg

Is everyone asleep at KATV or what? Threat Matrix is supposed to be in HD. As usual, they fogot to throw the HD switch again last night.....:(

Same thing happened Tuesday night on KATV. Don't the engineers monitor the HD signal?

Anyone have a number we can call at night to wake up the man with the switch ?

I would prefer that they leave the signal in widescreen mode all the time.

Better to have stretched commercials than 4:3 SD programming IMO.

(Personally, I *hate* stretched programs, and find the distortion unacceptable. I didn't buy an HDTV to watch people with fat heads. I prefer Original Aspect Ratio, as do most others on the AVSForum. If your set is adjusted properly, you shouldn't have to worry about screen burn.)

KATV needs to know that people are watching HDTV and somebody there is falling down on the job. Every time a known ABC HD show is not in HD on KATV-DT, contact the station at:
http://www.katv.com/contact.hrb
Send comments to:
Programming
Engineering
General Manager

KATV

Techs:
501 324-7792 (leave a detailed message)
501 324-7793 (leave a detailed message)
Transmitter at Redfield:
501 397-2318
Programming Director
501 324-7783 (leave a detailed message)
24hr News Line:
501 324-7760 (they may notify the MCO)

What are my chances of HD OTA in Heber Springs?

It depends.

If you're on a hill, you may be able to at least get the full power digital stations (KLRT-DT [fox-not HD] & KASN-DT [upn-HD]). If you're in a valley, with hills between you and the transmitters, forget it.

AFAIK, KATV-DT (abc-HD) and KTHV-DT (cbs-HD) are not yet broadcasting at full power. However, since KTHV-DT is VHF, you may have a shot at it, because VHF travels farther than UHF. Also, KATV-DT is on a very tall tower, which may help. KARK-DT (nbc) is barely on the air, using a very low power transmitter, just so they can say they're "on the air in digital" to satisfy the FCC. KARK-DT is not in High Def, either.

Your best bet is to contact the stations' engineers.

KTHV: 501 376-1111 laudas@kthv.gannett.com
KATV: 501 324-7792 jtidwell@katv.com
KASN/KLRT: 501 225-0016 AllenFinne@clearchannel.com

I agree with you about the stretched image. Every time I go to Best Buy I walk through the video dept and reset the widescreen TV to the native format.

My comment was that I don't care about what the commercials look like I just want them to get the programs correct.

Isn't there be a flag in the digital data stream that automaticly sets the screen format properly before it is transmitted?


Originally posted by arxaw
(Personally, I *hate* stretched programs, and find the distortion unacceptable. I didn't buy an HDTV to watch people with fat heads. I prefer Original Aspect Ratio, as do most others on the AVSForum. If your set is adjusted properly, you shouldn't have to worry about screen burn.)

KATV needs to know that people are watching HDTV and somebody there is falling down on the job. Every time a known ABC HD show is not in HD on KATV-DT, contact the station at:
http://www.katv.com/contact.hrb
Send comments to:
Programming
Engineering
General Manager

Originally posted by hpb
... Isn't there be a flag in the digital data stream that automaticly sets the screen format properly before it is transmitted? All 720p and 1080i broadcasts are 16:9 format. When the program is 4:3 format, it's up to the station/network whether to send it stretched to fit the 16:9 frame or keep it OAR and add sidebars to fill the 16:9 frame.

Most sidebars are currently black or gray, but they can also use any color or even logos/graphics/ads in those bars if they want.

So after a commercial break shouldn't it automaticly switch to 16:9?

If the show is actually 16:9 it should switch. But much of the switching is currently done manually.

Plus, there are two network feeds - one for analog and one for HD. If a show is in HD and the local station is asleep at the switch (as KATV often is), you get an upconverted analog 4:3 program with sidebars, instead of the 16:9 HD feed.

OT: Good source in Little Rock to get a DVI cable?

Try:
BestBuy, CompUSA, Circuit City or Audio Dimensions.
All of these stores are on or near Bowman Rd in WLR.

Is there anyone out there who has gotten the 811 from Dish? How is OTA if you have, and also install dates and issues?

( nj829, please put your location or ZIP Code in your Profile (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/usercp.php?s=) )

A friend of mine tried to order the HD 811 Dish system + Superdish from Custom Satellite.

The day before his install date, they called and said they would have to install TWO dishes, instead of the single super dish. He told them to forget it, because he didn't want 2 dishes plus an OTA antenna on his house.

I am assuming that is due to the one channel being carried on 61.5 vs. Dish 500. I don't have the OTA antenna on my roof (renting) so my thoughts are on signing up for the deal, and then before the super bowl "moving" to Dallas to receive CBS-HD. I am with D* currently, but not wanting to spend the extra on a new receiver. Plus, I am in a Pegasus serviced area, which is quite the pain.

We need to start pushing the local networks for Dolby Digital 5.1 sound. Apparently nationwide, DD sound output for those transmitting HDTV is pretty commonplace. I feel like the odd-man out on "HDTV Programming" forum when i mention we're not getting Dolby Digital 5.1 sound.

I just sent an email to Russell Wilson of KTHV to ask what's up with the supposed DD sound upgrade from a couple months back.

Azanon

Here was my email and his response:

Bradley,

Our goal is to transmit Dolby 5.1 sometime in the future. At this point in time I can not say exactly when that will take place. Dolby 5.1 requires us to purchase additional decoders and encoders for the HDTV signal. As encoder pricing comes down and viewer demand goes up we will be looking into getting Dolby 5.1 on the air. I am glad you enjoy the HD programming. If you have more questions please e-mail or call me at 501-376-1111.

Thanks,

Russell Wilson
KTHV
Assistant Chief Engineer
crwilson@kthv.gannett.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Bradley.C.Myers@swl02.usace.army.mil [mailto:Bradley.C.Myers@swl02.usace.army.mil]
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2003 9:37 AM
To: Wilson, Russell
Subject: Dolby Digital Sound


Russell,

I, and a few of my friends, have really enjoy you guys HDTV programming; its outstanding. To that end though, we are really looking forward to you guys also transmitting Dolby Digital sound. Is that something planned for in the near future. HDTV + DD sound would be the ultimate experience.

Thanks,

Bradley Myers

Originally posted by nj829
Is there anyone out there who has gotten the 811 from Dish? How is OTA if you have, and also install dates and issues?


I got the 811 hooked up yesterday. Call Blocker Electronics here in Hot Springs - They have a bunch of 811's. I only have one dish on the roof and get everything I want - Locals, HD package, and HBOHD.

The OTA reception seems pretty good, I get CBS and FOX about 72%. Something is wrong with the OTA audio though. It will lose sound every few minutes and I have to change the channel back and forth for it to come back. I hope I can find a fix for this soon as it's pretty annoying.

shaneotool-are you able to pick up UPN? I have been able to get that without any problems. How long did it take from order to actual install?

I ordered it on Thursday and it was installed yesterday. They could probably do it before the end of the month.

I have only been looking for digital stations, so I don't know if I can get UPN. What channel does it show up on your antenna? Is it digital? To be honest, I don't know of any shows on UPN that I watch.

The only thing on UPN in HD is Enterprise. I only watch it if nothing else is on at that time. Digital 39, should remap to 38-1 for you.

I guess I don't get it. I ran an auto scan last night and it went right past 39. Maybe my antenna is pointing in the wrong direction. I need to check into this.

Jake 2.0 and usually the Friday Night movie are also in HD on UPN.

If you have DirecTV or Dish Network please visit this site and complete the registration to send a letter to our state reps to stop this satellite only tax bill. :(

http://www.stopsatellitetax.com

Thanks.

shaneotool,
KASN-DT broadcasts some HD programming on Wednesdays & Fridays.
Look at the map for your address at Antennaweb.org (http://antennaweb.org/) to make sure you're pointing the antenna in the right direction.

1. What OTA antenna are you using - is it the one you installed before, or did the satellite intaller put up a different OTA antenna for you?
3. Are you using a preamp?
4. Are you using a diplexor?
5. Is the dish they installed the oval "super dish"?

When I look on antennaweb for stations that are available to me, KASN-DT isn't on the list. Maybe my house is in a bad spot to receive OTA from Pine Bluff. I still have my big Channel Master antenna and a pre-amp - it's pointed at Little Rock. I don't have a superdish installed and don't know what a diplexor is. I believe now they are only going to install a superdish if you need one to get your locals.

About the Dish 811 - it worked great last night. I don't know what happened but the digital audio output worked again - I got dolby digital on hbohd and hdnet.
Also the OTA tuner worked great - neither the picture or audio cut out once, and I watched CBS for about an hour. The performance last night was better than I had been getting with my motorola tuner. Right now, I am very happy with the 811. I hope it continues to work this well.

shaneotool,
Did Antennaweb show any Pine Bluff/Redfield analog stations, like 2(pbs), 7(abc) or 38(upn)? If so, click on the "street map" and re-aim your antenna in the direction of those channels, to try and get KATV-DT or KASN-DT. You may be able to receive them, even though antennaweb doesn't list them.

arxaw, It looks like to get channel abc and maybe upn I would have to have my antenna at 90 degrees. Right now it is pointed at 52 degrees to get cbs and fox. I would need a rotator to get all of them - not really sure if it would be worth all of the trouble. It's doubtful that I could receive them anyway as there is a hill by my house in that direction. I sure would like KATV though.

I would at least try aiming the antenna that direction. Both of those stations have very tall towers. KASN-DT is broadcasting at full power 1,000 kW. I'm not sure about KATV-DT, though. Last I heard, they were only at ~20kW, but they may have increased their power. I used to receive KATV-DT at ~77% on the signal strength meter, but in the past month or so, they've been coming in at 100%. Both of those stations are about 25 miles from my house.

Copy of e-mail sent to KARK

Dear Sir,

As a viewer of your station I have been sadly disappointed by what seems to be a lack of commitment to digital transmission of your stations signal. As one of the big 4 networks, it seems that KARK is doing the minimal amount that it can get by with to meet the government mandates for DTV. With the rapid growth of High Definition televisions and the new HD capable receivers that are coming into vogue in the cable and satellite markets it would seem to be prudent for a station of the stature of KARK to be moving aggressively to keep itself a player in the High Definition market before these viewers change their viewing habits. It would seem to be KARK's advantage to make this move before viewer ship is loss verses trying to reclaim viewers lost do to a lack of commitment to a changing viewer profile.

dlott,
You should also contact KARK's owner, Nexstar Communications (http://www.nexstar.tv/about.asp) (you may have to snailmail a letter). Mention the fact that they are not serving the public interest because their 4kW digital station is too weak to be received in most areas of their city of license, and KARK-DT can't be received on cable because they have no HD.

At the bottom of the letter, put:
"CC: to Rick Chessen, FCC DTV Task Force Chairman".
You can send a copy via email to Mr. Chessen at:
rchessen@fcc.gov

I have been having problems with KTHV's Live View Radar channel 11-2. The image would either be frozen or a black screen. I contacted KTHV (technicalservices@todaysthv.com) and got this very prompt reply from Allison <technicalservices@todaysthv.com>:
>We had troubles yesterday with our digital encoder at the studio.
>It should be ok today. We did, however, rob some bandwidth
>from the radar to give to the HD channel. So if the sweep on the
>radar is not smooth, that is why.
>We wanted to make sure the NFL playoffs and Superbowl
>coverage in HD had all the bandwidth we could give.

I wrote back and told her that although the radar subchannel is still not working on my TV, that was fine with me if it would improve PQ on the HD channel. I asked them to quit simulcasting all the time.

If you also wish that KTHV would completely do away with sub channels so HD would improve, please contact them and let them know.

technicalservices@todaysthv.com

bump

Thanks for writing us! We have just reduced the bandwidth on 11-2 to give
more to the HD channel. 11-2 is only taking about 5% of the total
available. I am going to see if I can take 11-2 temporarily off the air on
SuperBowl day so 11-1 can have the full bandwidth. I am not sure that
taking the radar off will completely eliminate all pixilation, some of what
you are seeing is incoming from CBS. Ah... modern technology. We
appreciate you watching us and appreciate the feedback.
Thanks,

dlott,
Thanks.

Have you noticed any changes on 11-2 ?

Haven't noticed a difference yet, but haven't had much of a chance to spend time watching lately. Here is a copy of what I sent Allison. We need to make sure that they know that the stations are being watched and we notice the efforts or lack of effort do do DTV right. Sorry for the personal commentary.

We would perfer that KTHV focus on the picture quality of their HD offerng
instead of simucasting the radar image that you are currently doing. With
the fine CBS offerings in HD it would be to KTHV's advantage to show that
they are the station with not only the best HD offerings but also the best
picture quality. Thanks for your time.

Very similar to what I sent them :)

I hate to see bandwidth wasted on subchannels of something that's available elsewhere (like KTHV's web site), when that bandwidth could be used to improve KTHV's HD picture quality.

I heard Fox is going to 720p by this fall. Does anyone know if KLRT will be ready to go for this when it happens?

To be more general, will there be any end-user HDTV advancements for us guys here in LR this year? The only thing i know of so far is supposedly D* will be adding a few HDTV channels this year, im not sure which.

Azanon

KLRT-DT has been HD capable since day one. They can do 480i, 480p, 720p & 1080i. They are currently upconverting everything to 1080i, but may change to 720p when FOX-HD starts. ClearChannel owned KLRT-DT (fox) & KASN-DT (UPN) are the only stations in LR currently broadcasting at full power levels.

WB station KWBF-DT (http://www.wb42.com/station_information.htm) should be on the air by spring '04.

DirecTV is adding CBS-HD for people in O&O markets and in "white area" markets. This will be done by super bowl, but it will not affect viewers in the LR/PB DMA, since KTHV is not a CBS O&O station. DirecTV is also adding fox widescreen very soon, but it will not be available in LR either.

AFAIK, DirecTV's HD capacity will be max'd out when they add the above channels, until they launch another satellite sometime this quarter. If that sat launch is successful, it will also allow D* to add the LR local analog stations to their channel lineup.

Originally posted by dlott
Thanks for writing us! We have just reduced the bandwidth on 11-2 to give
more to the HD channel. 11-2 is only taking about 5% of the total
available. I am going to see if I can take 11-2 temporarily off the air on
SuperBowl day so 11-1 can have the full bandwidth. I am not sure that
taking the radar off will completely eliminate all pixilation, some of what
you are seeing is incoming from CBS. Ah... modern technology. We
appreciate you watching us and appreciate the feedback.
Thanks,

I'm glad you did this. I did notice that the games this weekend looked much better than a few months ago. Every single close-up back then was real blocky. Now it's not so bad. Thanks. If you want to get rid of it all together thats fine by me.

shaneotool,
did you send that comment to the station?

err... I will now. I was just skimming though this and thought dlott was from KTHV. opps!

Good. Channel 11 actually enjoys hearing from DTV viewers.

email: technicalservices@todaysthv.com

Might be time to e-mail, call, write, KARK to ask them to get serious about upgrading to HD now before August slips up on us and we are watching the Olympics in underpowered and marginal DTV.

Good idea, dlott. Perry Chester is their general manager.
pchester@kark.com

Also contact Nexstar (http://nexstar.tv/about.asp), KARK's owner.

I contacted pchester@kark.com about getting HD on the air in time for the Olympics, but never got a reply. However a friend who wrote the station did get a short reply, and forwarded it to me:

">KARK will not be broadcasting in HDTV in time for the Olympics. "



nexstar sucks

I emailed Perry last July to ask about the station's plans for hd. He did answer with the following

"Thanks for the inquiry. KARK,at this time ,has no plans to broadcast HDTV this year ,or even early next year.Our company just purchased KARK and there are higher priorities facing us at this time. Conversion to HDTV is important to us.However , it is not the most important item on our list. Thank you!
Perry Chester"

In the "real world" of business, the consumer would just have to find an alternative store/business that could supply the item/service requested. Not much choice with a monopolistic network affiliate!

I view Nbc on Directv via NYC and LA stations. Maybe Hdnet will be able to simulcast the olympics this summer like they have before.

Originally posted by jstrossner
"... HDTV is important to us. However , it is not the most important item on our list...."IMO, the most important thing on Nexstar's "list" is adding more infomercials during non-prime time slots. Nexstar's purchase of KARK has only taken our NBC affiliate from bad to worse, and they do not serve the public interest. Their sorry low power digital station doesn't even cover their city of license.

I view Nbc on Directv via NYC and LA stations. Maybe Hdnet will be able to simulcast the olympics this summer like they have before. Where or how did you get a waiver? Did you uh, "move" your D* service address?

Where or how did you get a waiver? Did you uh, "move" your D* service address?

I was able to sign up for the distant locals when I subscribed to D* in '95 and have been "grandfathered in" since.

I completely agree with your summation of Kark!

Copy of the email sent to KARK:

Mr.. Chester,

I know that KARK was bought out early last year and this seems to have stalled your move to DTV. I know that your station has always been a leader in this market and I am sure that you intend to continue that in the future. However, I would like to state that our families viewing of KARK has just about ceased since we have gone to a HD set. The digital signal from your station is spotty at best compared to the other digital stations in town. We would like to come back and watch your station more often, Denise Whitaker is a neighbor of ours, but we are now use to watching as much as possible in HD. We were saying that we certainly hope that by the time of the Olympics in August KARK will be at full power and broadcasting in full HD. Thanks for your time.

A great chance to compare PQ between KATV and KTHV.

ABC News, in rotation, is the pool for the State of the Union and will broadcast the speech in High Definition, the first time a major news event has been transmitted in HDTV. CBS News is the pool for the Democratic response, and will also broadcast in HDTV.

dlott,
Thanks for the info.
I'm not sure how fair the comparison will be though. If ABC is covering the SOTU, the native format will probably be 720p, which means CBS will have to convert it to 1080i. Nevertheless, I'll still be flipping between 11 & 7 just to see what, if any differences I can spot :)

WRT KARK, I have friends here in LR who can't receive KARK-DT at all, due to their low power. I told them to file a complaint with Rick Chessen (mailto:rchessen@fcc.gov), head of the FCC's DTV Task Force, which they did.

Well, its no contest: CBS blows away ABC image quality tonight on the State of the Union Address. A rare opportunity to flip back and forth to compare the HD quality with concurrent transmissions. Granted.... I am viewing it on an HDTV with native 1080i, but the comparison is still interesting.

Did anyone else compare?

Azanon

It wasn't really a fair comparison.

It was shot in 720p, and broadcast in native 720p on ABC. But CBS converted the 720p feed to 1080i. Since your equipment converted ABC's 720p to 1080i but CBS did the conversion for you, CBS naturally should have looked better. CBS has much better conversion equipment than what's available in a consumer-grade STB.

The real comparison was ABC/CBS vs fox. fox looked like blurry crap, after watching the two HD networks :)

It wasn't really a fair comparison.

Not necessarily. Who's doing the upconversion, and what resolution its shot in, isnt the only variables. Case in point - on my TV, ESPN HD>CBS HD, and we know ESPN HD is native 720p, requiring my STB to upconvert. In particular, when they zoom the camera into a player's face during an HD football game, CBS HD goes to a pixelated mud on my TV, whereas ESPN HD retains high fidelity. Yeah, i know that has to do with inferior equipment at KTHV, but still that's the comparison for us, which is why i posted here, and not in HDTV programming........ So my point in saying all that is, that "maybe" KATV's equipment for viewing close in zooms is superior to KTHVs. No way to know without a comparison.

That didnt seem to be as much of an issue on ABC vs CBS last night - perhaps because KATV's equipment isnt any better than KTHV's. CBS still looked better on closeups, such as at the start when the VIPs were walking in.

I forgot to check Fox. I've found Fox widescreen to actually look pretty darn good in the past. But i agree, im sure it didnt compare to true HD.

Azanon

FYI, on KTHV-DT & CBS, there will be no DD 5.1 for Super Bowl commercials this year, per Bob Ross of CBS (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3282040#post3282040).

I have just started reading this thread, and I am not qualified to speak to the subject, but has anyone engaged Michael Storey at the Demo-Gaz to see if he can join in the effort to rattle the KARK cage?

wangdang,
Welcome to AVS Forum :) Please add your town and/or ZIP Code to your Profile HERE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/member.php?s=&action=editprofile).

Has Michael Storey written any articles about HDTV in LR? If so, your idea may be a good one. Maybe some negative press would rattle the Nexstar cage (kark's owner) in Dallas. But I don't think any Nexstar stations are HD/Full Power capable. Their plan seems to be "token LP SDTV" until forced to do otherwise by the FCC.

Sorry for late response, but there's no DD 5.1 for any local stations for us, and that is not likely to change for some time (year+). Per page 17, I contacted Russell Wilson of KTHV and was told as much. That's no reason to delay getting DD 5.1 though; I'm loving the 5.1 DD on HBO HD, HDNet, DHD, and HDMovies.

I DO think we'll be seeing some originally recorded DPLII stuff though on the local networks. My new receiver has this mode, and i've noticed some of the primetime shows sound wonderful with it on; perhaps they were encoded using DPLII.

DPLII is not an encoding method. It's just a superior way of decoding plain ol' Dolby Pro Logic sources. You get 3front/2rear channel output (vs 3front/1rear for DPL), better channel separation and bass treatment than with regular DPL. DPL's rear channel frequency cuts off at 7+khz. DPLII has no frequency cutoff on its two rear channels.

It sounds very good, without the problems OTA DD 5.1 is having.

That is not my understanding. There was a pretty large thread, I think in HDTV programming (i'll have to hunt it down), that annouced that several primetime shows on various networks will be using DLPII this coming season for encoding. My understanding is that DS, DPL, and DPLII are both decoding and encoding methods.

It sounds very good, without the problems OTA DD 5.1 is having

What problems is that? Of course we wouldnt know from experience here. My guess is by the time they get DD 5.1 locally, the local stations will be offered via D* in HDTV. From what i remember from the CES debate on HDNet, the spokesman for D* did indicated being able to provide local HDTV was a goal.

Here's the thread i was thinking of regarding DPLII encoding: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=341545&highlight=dplII

Anyone else try to watch the movie "It Must Be Love" on CBS last night? KTHV forgot to throw the HD switch, so it was in glorious SD 4:3 + gray sidebars :(

I wish they'd wake up on the weekends.

If I am subscribed to local channels for Little Rock & I have a 811 should I be receiving any of the broadcast in HD?

sblasl,
If your service address is in a Grade-A or B Little Rock reception area, you can't get distant networks in HD on Dish. You need to plug an antenna into the ANT-IN jack on the 811 and receive them OTA.

Now, there *are* some small towns up in Stone County that can receive CBS-HD (New York) and the LR locals via Dish. If you found an address in Mountain View that qualified (http://customersupport.dishnetwork.com/customernetqual/nqCustomerLocalsCheck.jsp), you could "move" your service address there and get the distant nets + LR locals on Dish. :)

Example:
100 E MAIN
MOUNTAIN VIEW AR 72560

arxaw,

When they installed my system, due to line of sight they were not able to mount the 2nd dish to get 61.5. Does this matter if I change my address?

Originally posted by sblasl
...When they installed my system, due to line of sight they were not able to mount the 2nd dish to get 61.5.If you want a channel that's on the 61.5, you would need the 2nd dish.

KATV-DT forgot to flip the HD switch for all the shows Tuesday night AGAIN.

How hard is this ! :mad:

HELLO KATV is anyone awake over there ? :rolleyes:

Originally posted by hpb
KATV-DT forgot to flip the HD switch for all the shows Tuesday night AGAIN.

How hard is this ! :mad:

HELLO KATV is anyone awake over there ? :rolleyes: Call and complain. Two control room numbers are:
501 324-7792
501 324-7793
If no answer, leave voicemail, hang up and call their 24 hr news line.

Also, leave after hour voicemail complaints:
Programming Director
324-7783

Email complaints to the General Manager, Programming Dept. & Engineering at:
http://www.katv.com/contact.hrb
Their typical response is that they had "technical difficulties last night....blahblah..." But complaints let them know that people are actually trying to watch HDTV.

I seldom watch that stupid channel, but when I do, it's very annoying to see the same problem occur over & over...

I sent the following message to the Enginering, Programming, General Manager departments.

Dear KATV,

Thank you for transmitting your primetime network programming in High Definition. You are already ahead of many of your competitors in this area.

However, many times I attempt to watch ABC’s HD programming and find that either due to technical difficulties or perhaps an oversight from someone in the engineering department, that a standard definition signal is being broadcast.

This occurred this past Tuesday February 24th. You have spent a considerable amount of money investing in HD broadcast hardware. And I have spent quite a bit of money on receiving and display hardware. It is VERY frustrating to watch a SD picture when an HD picture is possible.

Thank you for listening to my comments,

Harry Broadwell


I'll post any response I receive back from them.

My money's on this answer: "technical difficulties", which of course, is BS.

Every time I've called the KATV news line (when MCO won't answer the phone) and complained, the program was magically switched to HD within 5 minutes.

I still email the GM the next day to let them know about the lack of HD. And I always get the reply that it was due to technical difficulties.

KATV obviously doesn't care much about HDTV.

According to TitanTV, tomorrow is the day WB 42 goes digital. Does anybody know if they'll be HD, what their power will be, etc?

I don't think KWBF is going to make their digital deadline. You can email Doug Krile at the station for specifics. dkrile@ebcorp.net

I received this response from KATV about forgetting to switch to HD feed.
_________________________

Mr. Broadwell,
Thank you for your interest in KATV. I apologize for the lapse. We changed the control function of that operation and the person had been away sick and did not realize there had been a change. We continue to try to improve our operations.
James Tidwell
Director of Engineering
KATV,LLC
_________________________

At least they acknowledged the problem.

Last night Kingdom Hospital on KATV was delayed due to the Razorback game. After losing in OT, KH was finally run. It looked TERRIBLE on my system. So after getting a quick answer on my last email I decided to ask again. So I sent this email eairlier today.
_______________

Mr. Tidwell,

Thanks for the quick response on my last email. I have another question. Yesterday Kingdom Hospital was delayed because of the Razorback game. I assume KATV recorded the program to be replayed at the later time.

Is your recording equipment capable of recording the HD signal or are you limited to SD?

I'm asking because the delayed program was not broadcast in HD and the 4:3 SD signal looked very dark and "muddy" due to the down conversion. Even the "abc" bug in the lower right corner of the screen was almost invisible due to the darkness of the picture.

Thanks,
Harry Broadwell
_______________

And here is the answer I received.

==================

Mr. Broadwell,

KATV does not the capability to originate or tape HDTV program content. We can only pass ABC HD programs. The program last night was taped in analog, played back in analog and converted to digital at the transmitter.
James Tidwell
Director of Engineering
KATV, LLC

==================


Just thought this was interesting that KATV has no HD recording capability.

Originally posted by hpb
...Just thought this was interesting that KATV has no HD recording capability. Very few local stations have HD recording capability yet, not unlike when color broadcasts began. Initially, only the networks could afford the very expensive color cameras. The locals could only afford equipment to "pass through" network colorcasts.

None of the LR stations have equipment for HD recording or HD local broadcasts.

Originally posted by arxaw
Very few local stations have HD recording capability yet....None of the LR stations have equipment for HD recording or HD local broadcasts.That's pretty sad, given that I have that capability in my home, using a sub $300 PCI card in an HTPC that cost less than $1000 to put together. I realize this relies on an already-encoded ATSC signal, but I find it difficult to believe that it would be particularly expensive to put together a short-term combination for the local affiliates to use, that would also not break the bank.

Xesdeeni

And how much HD equipment could they buy if the sold "chopper 7" :rolleyes:

I apologize if this has already been covered, but I didn't see anything in my scanning of this thread.

What, if anything, can be done to get Comcast to carry kasn's HD Wednesday night feed? My understanding was that they had a rule not to carry local digital channels until the channel was broadcasting at full HD resolution. That explains Fox 16, which is currently 480p at best. But KASN on Wed. night is full 1080i. What gives? They seem to be violating their policy and it is frustrating to those of us who can only get HD thru cable.

Thanks.

We were told that wednesday and friday evening programming was not enough to justify adding KASN-DT.

LOL, they [comcast] added espn-"hd"

vidcamguy,
why can you only get HD through cable?

Allen,

How's KLRT's local news addition coming along?
When will it begin?
Will it be full service news like 4 - 7- 11 ?

ALSO, is AETN still going to use KASN's tower for their digital antenna?
Any word on when they'll be on the air?

Is anyone having trouble getting 11-1 today (6 March)? I just installed a rooftop antenna and am having trouble receiving, wondering if it is me or them.
thanks

Their signal is coming in strong in Conway.

>Questions for allenf......
>Allen,
>
>How's KLRT's local news addition coming along?
>When will it begin?
>Will it be full service news like 4 - 7- 11 ?

The newscast will debut March 28th. It will be a 1 hour newscast at 9:00pm.

>ALSO, is AETN still going to use KASN's tower for their digital antenna?
>Any word on when they'll be on the air?

AETN is using KASN's tower for their digital antenna. It is up on the tower. The main holdup now is the construction of the transmitter building. Last I heard they should be on by early summer.

I have been getting sporatic reports of difficulty receiving KLRT-DT over the last week or so. Is anyone here having trouble? All indications at my end are fine. Full power, no obvious transmitter issues, etc.

allenf,
No problem with KLRT-DT (other than that new ugly logo). Coming in at 100%.

Originally posted by 4fans
Is anyone having trouble getting 11-1 today (6 March)? I just installed a rooftop antenna and am having trouble receiving, wondering if it is me or them.
thanks 4fans,
Welcome to the forum.

What kind of antenna are you using? Brand/model? (KTHV-DT is VHF, not UHF)
What receiver/tuner are you using?
(Consider adding your equipment to your profile (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/member.php?s=&action=editprofile))

Have you aimed the antenna toward Shinall Mountain, per the map for your address at antennaweb.org (http://antennaweb.org/) ?


-- Sam

Originally posted by arxaw
LOL, they [comcast] added espn-"hd"

vidcamguy,
why can you only get HD through cable?


Because I don't have a built-in ATSC tuner in my TV or an outboard box except for the Motorola 5100 supplied by Comcast.

Originally posted by vidcamguy
Because I don't have a built-in ATSC tuner in my TV or an outboard box except for the Motorola 5100 supplied by Comcast. Then change providers. You can get an HDTV receiver from Dish for FREE, which includes and Over The Air HDTV tuner.

Or continue renting and putting up with the poor selection of HD channels on comscat.

arxaw.
Thanks for the reply, I tweaked it yesterday and was able to pull in 7-1, 11-1, 16-1, and 38-1. About as good as I can hope for, from reading this forum I gather that 4-1 is transmitting, but at very low power. I am barely getting any signal at all from NBC.
Thanks again,
4fans

One more question,
Any good ISF calibration experts in the area? I have a Philips widescreen and as this is not a real common RPTV wondering it anyone has experience with this TV and if they thought it was worth the $$.
Thanks.

Had to call KATV again to hit the HD switch.

They made the switch at the next commercial break.

:confused:

Originally posted by hpb
Had to call KATV again to hit the HD switch.

They made the switch at the next commercial break...That station is run by complete idiots.

Originally posted by 4fans
... Any good ISF calibration experts in the area?... Try HERE (http://www.imagingscience.com/isf_results.cfm?temp=3&Country1=none&State1=AR&dlr_status=CAL)

Originally posted by 4fans
arxaw.
Thanks for the reply, I tweaked it yesterday and was able to pull in 7-1, 11-1, 16-1, and 38-1. About as good as I can hope for, from reading this forum I gather that 4-1 is transmitting, but at very low power. I am barely getting any signal at all from NBC.
Thanks again,
4fans KARK-DT 4-1 is at low power, but with the right equipment you may be able to receive it. However, it's not HD, so if you can't get it you're not missing much.

(again) What brand/model antenna are you using? Are you using a preamp?

I believe the antenna is a ChannelMaster. Not sure the model, but it is very large, probably 4' long. It is a VHF/UHF directional, sorry, that's about all I know. I do have a preamp, without it I would not even pick up the stations I do now. I was rather surprised, I am only 11-15 miles from the towers, but just cannot get a very good signal. That is why I mounted the antenna on the roof, orginally it was in the attic, got OK reception, but would drop out frequently on various stations. Finally got fed up, moved it to the roof, was expecting much more improvement. Got some, but hoped for more. I will tweak again this weekend, hopefully can fine tune it some more.
Thanks for the replys.
4fans

Originally posted by 4fans
I believe the antenna is a ChannelMaster. Not sure the model, but it is very large, probably 4' long. It is a VHF/UHF directional, sorry, that's about all I know. I do have a preamp...Do you know the brand/model of preamp? Some preamps work a lot better than others. Some are too noisy for DTV, and can cause dropouts.

4FANS

Get rid of the pre-amp. With the antenna you have you don't need it unless you are behind a large hill. In which case, the pre-amp might help.

Suggestion: All of the digital stations are UHF with the execption of KTHV. Everyone is on Shinall Mtn except KATV & KASN which are in Redfield. Use KLRT ch ANALOG to aim your antenna at Shinall. Use KASN ch 38 ANALOG to aim at Redfield. Go for the best picture quality that does not have ghosts (multipath). Depending on your location, you may not be able to aim at Shinall and Redfield at the same time and meet the below criteria. Looking at the above analog signals while aiming your antenna look for:

1) Great analog signal , no ghosts : Digital will work great.
2) Noisy analog signal, minimal ghosts: Digital most likely will work.
3) Lots of ghosts on analog signal: Digital will work poorly, dropout, etc.

It is as simple as that. There is snake oil galore out there. Ignore the ads and sales pitches. 99% of the time it boils down to making sure you have the least multipath possible. Then worry about signal strength and adding more antenna or pre-amps.

ARXAW-

Good advice on the pre-amp quality. Using a pre-amp is one of the most frequent questions I get. I tend to view them as a last resort. They cause more problems then they solve for most situations.

The pre-amp I have is a TrunkLine, Model 20-TDA25. All the analog channels come in fine, with no ghosts, but the digital signals just will not come in without the pre-amp. I am receiving all signals, but cannot get a great signal on all of them at once (Shinall vs Redfield). Still will drop out frequently. Seems like 7-1 is espescially week this morning, usually it comes in very strong.
4fans

4fans,
Like KARK-DT, KATV-DT also took the cheap route to DTV. They're using a low power transmitter and a directional antenna aimed at WLR. If you're not in that part of town, you may have reception problems. KLRT, KASN & KTHV are the only digital stations that have full power capability in LR. IIRC, KTHV-DT is running at ~½ power, but KLRT & KASN are at full power.

Time of day, weather and seasonal changes will also affect marginal stations. Weak stations may come and go or even disappear after the leaves come out on the trees :(

Just curious, is your preamp VHF+UHF or UHF only?

allenf,
Your "good analog=good digital" comparison is not always true. YMMV.

Examples at my address:
KTHV and KLRT analog are wracked with multipath ghosts. (see screen shot below)
But KTHV-DT & KLRT-DT come in perfectly, regardless of the weather.

However, aiming the antenna for the best analog picture is usually still a good way to also get the best digital signal, especially if your STB doesn't have a good SS meter.

arxaw,
It is a UHF/VHF/FM amp, with an FM trap.

I will be getting a Mits WS-55313 in a few weeks and have been lurking in this forum for a few day and have noticed that most don't like the cable HD.
But it also seems that there are a lot of problems with getting it OTA. I will be getting my cable digitized and would like to know the pros and cons to having the cable HDized (what a word!).

Thanks in advance,
Christopher Smith

I would only go with comcast as a last resort (i.e. if I lived where OTA HD was absolutely impossible).

Why pay cable for fewer local digital channels than you can get OTA for free? With cable, there's no choice of equipment. They have one STB - take it or leave it, whether it works well on your TV or not. Their pitiful ad-filled interactive guide only shows one hour of programming at a time. No picture in guide. Funky remote. Cable in my neighborhood is unreliable. YMMV, of course.

Cable has little up front cost, but the expensive digital tier (required) plus HD STB rental will pay for OTA or OTA+DirecTV equipment of your choice in just a few months.

my 2¢

Okay, we got Dish, with the 811 box. Subscribed to the Dish HD package. Lurked around this thread. Got steered to some other good threads and sites.

If i understand it, there's still a step or 2 I've got to take to get the HD signal from the LR stations on to my television, right? Can you help?

I confess I am over my head, and the Dish folks so far have not been able to help me much.

Thanks in advance ... DB

Originally posted by wangdang
... If i understand it, there's still a step or 2 I've got to take to get the HD signal from the LR stations on to my television, right?Right.

1. Buy an OverTheAir (OTA) antenna suitable for your location (http://antennaweb.org/), and aim it at the stations, per the map at antennaweb (http://antennaweb.org/).
2. Using RG6 coax, connect the antenna to the ANT-IN jack on your 811 receiver.
3. Setup the 811 to scan for local OTA channels. The 811 user manual will tell you how to do that. If you didn't get a manual, call the dish installers and ask for one.

This antenna (http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/4221.htm) often works well for the existing LR OTA channels, unless you're in a valley surrounded by big hills. Since several LR digitals are low power, indoor antennas usually don't work well.

Do not buy any OTA antenna made by TERK. They are junk.

Thanks for ALL the help ... :)

I also just had Dish HD installed in the last few weeks.
So far I have been very happy with the PQ of the 811 and my Sony KF 42WE610 .
There were some strange problems with green bars show up all over my screen, but they turned out to be caused by not turning the 811 off at night. They would go away when you opened up any menu.
The other problem I have seen with the 811 is that sometimes the sound will get off track while watching HD. Turning the channel seems to fix the problem.

As far as reception goes, I will need to buy a new antenna. There was already an old antenna in the attic and I thought I would try it out before I ran out and spent a lot of money. Right now without doing anything I am getting strong signals from WB and KATV HD channels. I need to see if moving it around would allow me to get UPN. I printed off the map from antennaweb so that should help me get the channels located.

Am I wrong in thinking that If I bought a new antenna I can run it to my old antenna for extra reception? If I can pick up a strong signal for all channels from inside my attic I would be happy. A little surprised but very happy.

Thanks,

TO


Edit: I was thinking I was picking up WB but I believe it was an analog signal.
I moved the old UHF antenna around in the attic and I'm able to pick up UPN at a steady 75% but ABC is almost unwatchable at 49%-63%. I though I was going to be able to get CBS too but it is no longer coming it after I came down from the attic. I think a new antenna would probably do wonders and if I mounted it outside it would do even better.

Tworr,
Welcome to the forum.
Yes, KWBF (WB) is still analog.

Installing an outdoor antenna should help, but getting good OTA reception in LR can be frustrating. See Post #421 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3541723#post3541723) above for antenna stuff.

For weak stations, adding a good low noise VHF/UHF preamp, like this one (http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/7777.htm) may help. Don't waste your money on cheap noisy amps from rat shack or big box stores.

Thanks for the info Arxaw!

That's a really good price for that antenna, but I think I'm going to wait and see how what I have works out.

I spent some time this weekend working on the antenna in the attic and after suspending it I'm able to get a signal for the 3 main HD stations now. I'm not exactly sure what I have, but it's an old Antennacraft with one large 6'x4' mass and two smaller 4'x3' pieces attached by antenna wire. With the changes I made I am getting a 75% signal for CBS,UPN and ABC. The Fox station while I don't think it's HD is coming in a little stronger at 80%.

Once I get some of the other projects done around the house and yard I will be looking into improving my reception by changing to that CM and mounting it outside where I can get a cleaner signal.

I never thought an OTA HD signal would look this good.

TO

There is nothing wrong with the cable product for HD. For some reason people get rather fanatic over various pieces of hardware or go nuts over cable/dishes/ota, or whatever.

Instead of a mits 55313 you might look at a 55513 which has a built in tuner. If you plug in your cable (split the incoming line) to the Antenna A and the Digital tuner you can get all the analog pictures plus you get all the unscrambled digital content plus the unencoded HD pictures. (It's encoded in QAM and your TV will break it down like 114.01 114.02 114.03, etc -- encoded bands of programs with subchannels)

If you go the cable route you need their box to get the HD movies plus subscribe to HBO, Showtime, etc. Right now they are sending out StarzHD and MaxHD with the other paid movie packages for free. Or maybe they forgot to encode it.

You won't get the scrambled digital cable channels without a box and without paying for it.

Have fun.

Originally posted by Tworr
... With the changes I made I am getting a 75% signal for CBS,UPN and ABC. The Fox station while I don't think it's HD is coming in a little stronger at 80%...A steady signal is a lot more important than a strong signal that fluctuates. Some receivers can easily lock onto a 30% signal, if it's steady. Other than dropouts at very low or fluctuating signal, signal strength has no effect on picture quality.

CBS & ABC in LR are usually HD for most primetime & some major sports events. UPN has some HD a couple of nights a week. fox has no HD at all, but will begin HD this fall. The local fox (KLRT-DT) & UPN (KASN-DT) stations are full power, and both presently upconvert SD programming to 1080i. KLRT-DT may possibly change to 720p this fall, when fox begins FOX 720p-HD programming.

PM allenf for more info.

ARXAW-

I will be attending NAB in a few weeks. FOX is holding a seminar for engineers outlining what exactly their plans are for HD network equipment/distribution. This is very welcome- sometimes as a FOX affiliate I feel we are the last to know. I have seen topics concerning FOX discussed here that often turn out to be substantially correct. I will definitely post a summary when I get back.

Is AETN still looking at early summer or have they received another waiver? Haven't been able to locate anything definitive. I was thinking that they were actually on track for a early summer transition but am not sure that is correct.



BTW Allen, it is great to have you as an active participant in this board. It is nice to know that you and your stations are committed to the digital future. Wish I could say the same for KARK. I saw where FOX Sports is going to make a major commitment to HD programming with the transition to HD. That is great news!!!

Originally posted by allenf
... I will definitely post a summary when I get back. Allen,
Thanks.

Originally posted by dlott
Is AETN still looking at early summer or have they received another waiver?dlott,
The last email I received from AETN said they plan to have KETS-DT (ch 5, or "2-n") on the air sometime "this summer". There is some AETN DTV info at: http://www.aetn.org/strategicreview.pdf

If/when KETS-DT does get on the air, you may need a good lowband VHF antenna + VHF preamp to receive them. They plan to broadcast at very low power (2.1 kw ERP). And if you're not in the path of their directional antenna, forget it.

Transmitter info at:
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=KETS


-- Sam

Originally posted by arxaw [/i]
---------------------------

1. Buy an OverTheAir (OTA) antenna suitable for your location (http://antennaweb.org/), and aim it at the stations, per the map at antennaweb (http://antennaweb.org/).
2. Using RG6 coax, connect the antenna to the ANT-IN jack on your 811 receiver.
3. Setup the 811 to scan for local OTA channels. The 811 user manual will tell you how to do that. If you didn't get a manual, call the dish installers and ask for one.

This antenna (http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/4221.htm) often works well for the existing LR OTA channels, unless you're in a valley surrounded by big hills. Since several LR digitals are low power, indoor antennas usually don't work well.
--------------------[/QUOTE]

I'll be darn if it doesn't work -- thanks ARXAW!

wangdang,
Which antenna did you get?
Which OTA channels are you receiving?

Against your better advice, but because I have external attachment problems along with severe Spousal Approval Factors, I got a Jensen Low-profile amplified indoor antenna. I have it plugged into a dish 811 STB.

i am getting KLRT killer, KTHV okay, except for today, and occasionally KARK. When I run Digital Scan thru Dish, I am getting other signals, but none lock in. Never a signal from KATV.

I Used the map resources from Antennaweb, grabbed a compass and put little put markers on the cabinet so that if i need to i can re-aim. My main desire was KTHV, so i am happy for now. Although I have not been able to get the radar shot today.

I live right behind The Books-A-Million in North Little Rock, so i am fairly elevated for this part of NLR.

DB

Arxaw,why did you tell wangdang to get an internal antenna!! :P

After doing more research the most talked about antenna were the CM's and what not to do like installing in your attic *cough* and/or getting one of the small indoor-preamp antenna's unless there was no other choices.
But I've also read where some people have had good results with them. I guess trees, buildings and location makes the term "your results may vary" true.

Speaking of my antenna, I put an image on my webpage of how I installed it in my attic. Getting it up off the attic beams really helped! Once I get that amp I may not have to get the other antenna, but I'm leaving my options open because I know that's the best way to get a better signal.
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/tworr/_images/HDTV/antenna.jpg

The biggest improvement was being able to get all the channels to come in at a "strong AND steady" level. I was noticing that if the level jumped around that my 811 would not keep a lock. It looks like the 811 will not lock in a signal if it is below 50%.

Wangdang,
Even though we are less than 25 miles from all the towers the indoor antenna may just have too much interference to pick up anything good.
I've heard putting one of those antennas next to a window could help but I'm not sure. Try aiming your antenna South-Southwest between the two towers, you might get lucky and be able to get a signal lock.

wangdang,
Lakewood House *may* be causing multipath problems with KTHV-DT & KARK-DT. If so, your reception may vary depending on time of day, time of year, temperature, humidity, etc.

KATV's signal in Redfield is low power and they're transmitting on a directional antenna aimed at WLR, so indoor reception for you would be difficult, at best.

Good thought. After i read you post, i got out the compass again and tightened up "my aim." KTHV coming in great for the ball game tonight -- to bad not in HD. KLRT's Wonderfalls is a pretty good widescreen pix, though.

Originally posted by wangdang
... KTHV coming in great for the ball game tonight -- to bad not in HD...I'm pretty sure the game last night was in HD - I didn't watch it, but I did see it while flipping channels. But I may have seen it on WCBS-DT out of NYC. I have it for a "backup" on DirecTV. Comes in handy when KTHV-DT occasionally forgets to throw the "HD switch"...

Has anyone watched the last couple of episodes of CSI Miami? I've been getting some stuttering audio. The picture never drops out or pixelates, but the sound was jittery. It got so bad my gf made me change it to SD to finish the show. Is this my setup or a problem with the signal?

Originally posted by shaneotool
Has anyone watched the last couple of episodes of CSI Miami? I've been getting some stuttering audio.... It's a problem with the station's audio. Very annoying.

Contact the station and complain:
501 376-1111 (day)
501 244-4565 (night)

technicalservices@todaysthv.com

Did anyone else notice that KATV forgot to throw the switch for "The Haunting", but did so later in the movie. Man, they are incompetent.

Azanon

I got this reply today from KTHV:
"Thanks for emailing us! Yes, we are aware of the problem. It is a
satellite receiver problem on our end. It has been difficult for us to track
because the problem comes and goes. But we are chasing the little gremlins
as fast as we can! Thanks for your patience."

Why doesnt KATV just leave widemode on all the time on 7-1 like KTHV digital is (perma 1080i, or perma 720p in their case), effectively making it dummyproof and eliminating the need to throw a switch?

Hey Tworr, in your Post # 434, you imply arxaw recommended an internal antenna to me. He did not. I went against his advice. It just happened to work out. Just wanted to clarify.

Looks like bring able to pick up THV will keep me in HD sports-heaven all summer long.

Originally posted by Azanon
Why doesnt KATV just leave widemode on all the time on 7-1 like KTHV digital is (perma 1080i, or perma 720p in their case), effectively making it dummyproof and eliminating the need to throw a switch? The "switch" is to change satellite feeds, not to turn 720p off/on. 7-1 is always broadcast in 720p.

They have to manually change between HD/SD feeds during commercial breaks and for non-HD programs. When they forget to throw the HD switch, you're watching the SD 4:3 feed (with sidebars) converted to 16:9 720p. Obviously, KATV doesn't give a s**t about making sure the switch is thrown at the appropriate times.

Hello from the Ozarks. Thought you might interested to know I can occasionally pick up channel 11's digital signal here in Boone County.

Is there any chance of picking up any of the other central Arkansas stations?

I am probably 150 miles from Little Rock.

Originally posted by Arkie
... I can occasionally pick up channel 11's digital signal here in Boone County.
Is there any chance of picking up any of the other central Arkansas stations?
I am probably 150 miles from Little Rock. Probably not. Normal Line of Sight (LOS) distance for reliable reception is ~60 miles. Channel 11's digital station is VHF, which is more likely than UHF to "bend" past the horizon. All the other LR stations are UHF, which makes out of market reception very difficult. Also, NBC (4-1) & ABC (7-1) are broadcasting at low power, making reception difficult even in parts of Little Rock.

You're lucky you can even get channel 11, as they are only broadcasting at ½ of full power! You should contact the station engineers at 11 and let them know. They like getting reception reports. technicalservices@todaysthv.com

Anyone know what happened to KTHV-DT Live View Radar on 11-2?

Hopefully they decided to drop the radar and give all the bandwidth to 11-1 and HD. Probably just dreaming, but we can hope.
:)

Dennis,

I got an email reply from Alison. She said 11-2 is still there. I too, would prefer they use the entire bandwidth for 11-1, but it ain't gonnna happen. They have reduced the BW allocated for 11-2 to the absolute minimum needed for "almost full motion" video (they did this prior to the Super Bowl). This helped reduce blurriness and macroblocking on action programming like football.


Are you not receiving 11-2 either? If not, please contact Alison Fletcher and let her know.
technicalservices@todaysthv.com

What STB are you using that won't receive 11-2?

I'm monitoring this thread because my parents live in LR. In DFW, our affiliates have said something similar about these simulcast radar channels. I don't accept this, and I wouldn't if I were you. I assume they cite competition, but competition is for YOUR eyeballs. If you are dissatisfied, then they lose. So far they are probably getting more positive than negative feedback. So it's time to speak up.

Just say "NO" to simulcasting (with HD).

Xesdeeni

As much as I disdain it too, multicasting is only going to get worse if pay services like USDTV (http://www.usdtv.com/why_usdtv-reception_maps.php) go nationwide. Local stations won't be able to resist reselling multiple SD channels to these "wireless cable" providers.

The local cable here in Harrison provides analog channels 4, 7 and 11 to their viewers. How are they able to get those signals from Little Rock?

Originally posted by Arkie
The local cable here in Harrison provides analog channels 4, 7 and 11 to their viewers. How are they able to get those signals from Little Rock? Most likely path: Satellite Uplink/Downlink.

allen,

Will KLRT-DT be ready for FOX-HD?
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=391168

I'm too lazy to hunt for it, but I thought he already said they're ready to go as soon as they get the HDTV broadcasts.

Azanon

heheh, I couldn't remember and was also too lazy to search... :)

KLRT should be receiving the stream splicer sometime this summer. I am working on getting firmer date. Once the splicer is installed, we'll be ready the pass along 720p as soon as FOX provides it. As a side note for folks receiving HD via Comcast, the local Comcast provider has refused to carry us because we are not currently "true HD". Hopefully, they will consider 720P "true HD" and we will be added to their HD tier.

allenf,
Thanks for the info. Perhaps the lack of comcast et al carriage because of no HD programming on fox was part of the reason fox decided to upgrade to HD. If so, I'm glad the cablecos are holding out for HD before adding them to their digital packages.

I don't want them to carry KARK either until they go HD. No cable carriage will help continue the complaints to come into KARK, Nexstar & the FCC about 4's crappy SD low power signal :)

I also heard that most FOX affiliates will be doing local HD by 2006. Any truth to that rumor? --Sam

Anyone heard any news lately on whether or not KARK will make the effort to bump the power of the the OTA HD broadcast of the Olympics ?

Official reply from Perry Chester:
Nexstar, KARK's owner, has NO plans for HDTV on KARK-DT.
Nexstar, KARK's owner, has NO plans to increase the piss-poor power level on their DTV station until forced to do so by the FCC.

So, no Olympics in HD in LR (unless HDnet is allowed to carry them, as in the past).

Send complaints to:
email: pchester@kark.com
FAX: 501 340-4425

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=395782

I think we knew Nexstar would do something like this, but I am hoping this is not in Clear Channel's plans for KLRT.

I fear that eventually everything on free OTA DTV will end up being SD 480i. If you want HD, you'll have to either subscribe to cable, satellite or one of these new multichannel OTA services :(

If there's a profit to be made in selling what many broadcasters view as "excess" bandwidth, the local stations will sell it. It's exactly what cable and satellite have done with digital signals - compress the hell out of it, resulting in blurry basic SD service, then offer HD channels as a premium service.

[allenf, any word on ClearChannel's plans re this?]

Nexstar, KARK's owner, has NO plans for HDTV on KARK-DT.
Nexstar, KARK's owner, has NO plans to increase the piss-poor power level on their DTV station until forced to do so by the FCC.

I have NO plans to watch KARK anytime soon.

......

I have me a RS UHF indoor double bowtie antenna on order, so i'll compare it to the silver sensor. I dont mind paying whatever it takes to get the best picture possible. Unfortunately, Radio shack doesnt carry this antenna locally.

BTW, does anyone know someone in LR qualified to install a roof antenna? (including mounts) on a two story house? Money is not a problem. I'll pay a fair rate if someone can do this for me. It sucks to have to resort to an indoor antenna.

Azanon,
Call Custom Satellite and ask them if they will install an antenna that you've purchased elsewhere. They will probably do it - for a price.

What station(s) are you having problems with? What antenna(s) are you using now?

I'm getting 100% signal strength on all digital locals except KARK-DT, which usually is ~77%. I'm using a CM 4221 4-bay bowtie + CM 7777 preamp.

I'm using a Zenith Silver Sensor w/o a preamp.

Only speaking digital here, i have the most trouble with Fox, and UPN with the SS. ABC can sometimes be problematic. The only one i get with virtually no dropout is CBS.

I have a CM 4221A outdoor antenna in my garage, but I tried and failed to install it myself. There's no way i'm getting on my roof.

Azanon,
If your house is newer, it may have a foil-backed radiant barrier in the exterior walls to reduce radiant heat gain. If so, this would explain your reception problems on full power stations like KLRT-DT & KASN-DT.

How did you "fail" to install the 4221? What went wrong?

My roof's too high and steep, and i'm afraid of heights, lol. I had a friend try to hook it onto the back of my D* dish, but with anything touching my dish, it caused my satellite to go out. I dont think he was enthused about it enough to bother with installing a mount for me, and i didnt want to be pushy.

I'm basically going to need a separate mount for it, though I already have the antenna cable rigged to the roof (the endpiece is unattached lying besides my satellite dish atm).

I'll let ya know how the indoor RS double bowtie works out when it comes it. It was only 14.99 so its worth a try. If I can get one indoor antenna to pick up shinall good and the other one redfield, then i might just get a switcher so i dont have to get up to rotate the antenna every time i change the station.

(edit) regarding having trouble with 16 and 38, i did notice something really strange. When they do come in, the signal strengh (using the feature on my STB) is always stronger than ABC and CBS, but it drops out on me more. It goes from near pegging the meter, to the bottom causing a dropout. Maybe that has something to do with what you suggested. My house was built in 1995.

I'm using a CM 4221 and CM 7777 preamp with a Model 9521A rotator. Works great, even can get KVTN without any problem. Glad I listened to arxaw. If you can get that 4221 mounted I don't think you should have a problem.

Originally posted by Azanon
... regarding having trouble with 16 and 38, i did notice something really strange. When they do come in, the signal strengh (using the feature on my STB) is always stronger than ABC and CBS, but it drops out on me more. It goes from near pegging the meter, to the bottom causing a dropout. Maybe that has something to do with what you suggested. My house was built in 1995. Nothing strange about it. Sounds like a typical multipath problem. Unfortunately, like most indoor antennas, the RS DBT doesn't deal with multipath too well either. But you may as well try it, since you've already ordered it.... ya never know *what* will work with OTA reception.

Hopefully, new OTA receivers with the LINX (http://www.linxelectronics.com/products/lx2004rx.asp) multipath-negating chips will be out before too long. This technology uses multipath to its advantage by taking bounced signals and combining them to increase signal strength. Supposedly, you can use just about any ol' antenna with them - no aiming required. Look for this chip in RCA/Thomson receivers sometime in '05.

Originally posted by dlott
I'm using a CM 4221 and CM 7777 preamp with a Model 9521A rotator. Works great, even can get KVTN without any problem. Dennis,
Glad the combo is working for you.

I haven't really tried to pick up KVTN-DT, but you're the first person I know of who actually can receive that low power station (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=607#10001). Their digital antenna is only ~300 ft off the ground, compared to 1500 - 1800' for other locals. --Sam

Voom pre-programs local OTA into the program guide. I can always see what's on Kvtn but, needless to say, I've never seen a picture in Conway!

jstrossner,
How are you liking VOOM?
Is the OTA tuner very good?
Are installers located in Conway, or are they in LR? If LR, what company does the install?

Sam,
So far, I have been very pleased with Voom. With $0 and no contract I figured I'd give it a try and see how it worked out. The OTA tuner is better than my Sony HD 300---the Sony won't pickup ABC but Voom does. HD pq is better with Voom and SD is the same as D*. Voom contracts with Installs Inc. for installation. A company in LR installed mine. I was somewhat worried after reading some installation horror stories, but my installer was top-notch. I can't remember the name of the company but it wasn't Broadway or any other that I have heard of. About the only HD I don't get is INHD, Hdnet, Hdnet Movies. Espn is being added today and Tnt is supposed to be on next month. You get the east and west coast channels and other nonHD premiums not available on D* like Showtime extreme and ActionMax.

jstrossner,
The install company may have been Custom Satellite.

You're lucky you can get KATV-DT. They are using a directional antenna to beam their very low power signal toward WLR. There are folks in NLR and downtown LR that can't get KATV-DT.

I get CBS-HD E&W and will soon get FOX-HD on DirecTV. It's a good backup when the local affiliate is covering the screen with election results, weather warnings, etc., or when they pre-empt a program with some other local crap. I had to "move" my service address to get the E/W coast feeds.

Sam,

I think it was Custom Satellite.

I have the network package on D* as well. It's nice being able to get 5.1 audio while we wait for KTHV to upgrade their audio.

Paying for locals Sam? Ok.... fess up... who stole Sam's account?

Azanon

Hey arwax,

Where did you "move" to? I am switching to D* this week and am currently "packing".

Originally posted by Azanon
Paying for locals Sam?Nope, not locals. I get those FREE OTA. I "moved" my D* service address to get the Distant Networks (NY & LA).

It comes in very handy for CBS-HD when KTHV-DT's sound goes crazy or they forget to flip the HD switch on 11-1. I can also watch CBS HD network shows later in the evening on KCBS-DT from LA.


Tusk,
I moved to a "white area" in Arkansas. Try addresses of small towns in stone & newton counties. There are others.....

You need to make sure the address is not served by Pegasus (a D* reseller). Do that here:
http://www.localprovider.org/index.jsp

Then, search for a DirecTV white area here:
http://directvdnseligibility.decisionmark.com/app/AddressEntry.asp

If you just want the LR locals on D*, I would wait. DirecTV 7-S satellite for new local markets is launching TODAY. You can view the launch on DirecTV channel 855.

Hmm, that doesnt sound honest to me, no offense intended to you of course. I register "strong signal" on that for all stations, so i'm not eligible for Distant Network Service. Its no biggie though since DT 11 is my easiest to receive signal, and i'll only miss out when they put up local shows over the main broadcast.

My new indoor antenna came in yesterday, but hopefully i'll get a chance to try it today.

Azanon

Originally posted by Azanon
Hmm, that doesnt sound honest to me, no offense intended to you of course. Offense not taken.

However, it's not like I'm stealing anything. I pay DirecTV for the a-la-carte distant nets. Anyway, I normally watch CBS-HD on 11-1 because it's slightly sharper than CBS-HD on D*. But when 11 sometimes screws up the audio (like CSI last night) or forgets to throw the HD switch (golf over the weekend), I like having a backup source of HD.

If you read the posts from D* reps over at DBSForums.com (http://www.dbsforums.com), DirecTV knows that a lot of people "move" to a different service address to get the locals, or to get away from crappy Pegasus resellers. I doubt that D* really cares, as long as they're following the law and their customers are happy.

I pay DirecTV for the a-la-carte distant nets.
How so? I thought you mentioned they were at no charge to you earlier.

AFAIK, i'm only paying the basic 33.99 regular costs + HD package, so I assume i'm not playing for a-la-carte distant nets.

The distant nets are available if you are unable to receive a grade "B" signal or better OTA. I am currently paying for locals from my original location before moving here as they are still on CONUS until 7s is up and running, plus I would be able to access the distant nets due to my service address. The cost is $1.75 for one network east or west, $2.25 for both. The HD channels for CBS are included for CBS as a distant net, as will Fox once those become available. It also would be possible to get Little Rock locals AND the DNS once Little Rock is on D*, although that loophole may close with the new SHIVA/SHERVA act. On a side note, I am west of Little Rock, but able to get a 99% on transponder 4, which is the Memphis spot beam. On another site, I noticed someone commented that Little Rock was not covered by any spotbeams at this. Could you guys check and see where your strength is on those? Just curious if I am seeing the Memphis spot beam, or a different one that is not showing properly on the maps on the internet. Thanks!

Arxaw,

I've read back on some of your previous posts regarding the CM 4221 and the CM 7777 amp. I'm at the foot of Shinal in west LR and am looking to buy an antenna soon. My main item of confusion regards UHF and VHF. Everyone is broadcasting UHF right now except for KTHV. Will all of the stations be moving to VHF in the future? Is that a requirement of the FCC or based on the fact that they will be dropping their analog broadcasts in 2006.

With that said, should I be looking at a combo antenna, or just get the CM 4221 and add a VHF antenna later.

Thanks.

I believe the broadcasters have a choice of keeping their UHF channel or using their VHF for digital. I believe the reasons VHF was chosen in the first place may also mean that most will switch back to VHF. I understand this means better coverage for lower power, which translates to lower electric bills. But VHF has some disadvantages, like worse multi-path interference, that might make things worse for digital. There may be a few stations that decide this is enough reason to stay UHF, probably depending on their terrain.

But the bottom line is I think most stations will revert to their VHF channels for digital.

Xesdeeni

The cost is $1.75 for one network east or west, $2.25 for both. Well, that's $1.75-$2.25 more than i'm willing to pay then. I prefer free.

>My double bowtie indoor i ordered from Radio shack was a success and is clearly superior to the SS (for me anyway). I found a spot on top of my STB that allows me to get DT 4, 7, 11, 16, and 38 without adjusting it. I'm not sure if I will have dropout problems with it like that but best i could tell last night, its working great. Heck i can even get channel 2 with it - go figure (getting channel 2 with a UHF only antenna??? /boggle).

>Tusk, i know you're asking arxaw, but here's my 2 cents. If you're sitting on shinall mountain, I hope you already know to pass on the preamp. Regarding the VHF issue, why worry about it. Right now, all the HDTV DT stations are UHF only (or close enough to it, ie; KTHV), so i'd recommend getting an antenna that optimized reception on the UHF bands. I know PBS is cleary VHF, but they're not HD yet (locally), and the content on that station IMO isnt worth worrying about or at least worth lowering the quality of the reception of all the other stations via a jack-of-all-trades, master of none antenna. I suspect arxaw will reiterate suggesting going with a UHF only antenna.

If they switch in the future (and future will = years) then no biggie - just get another antenna. Its not like they're expensive.

Originally posted by Azanon
...I thought you mentioned they were at no charge to you earlier... I never said DNS is free. OTA is free, which I also receive.

Originally posted by Tusk
... I'm at the foot of Shinal in west LR and am looking to buy an antenna soon. My main item of confusion regards UHF and VHF.The 4221 UHF antenna will usually work ok for "highband" VHF stations 7-13. If you're at the bottom of Shinall, any antenna will probably work for KTHV-DT (12).

Sometime this summer, KETS-DT (PBS) will be on the air in the low VHF band. Since their transmitter is 25+ miles away from your location, plus the fact that they have an STA (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=2770#10002) to transmit at only ~1kW ERP, you may need a dedicated lowband VHF antenna, which you can add later if you want to receive PBS when it goes live.

WRT the CM 7777 preamp, only add a preamp later, and only if needed. A preamp at your location might overload Shinall stations.

Thanks guys. I will be getting a HD stb sometime in the next month and will try out your suggestions.

KETS-DT (LR), KAFT-DT (NW AR) and KTEJ-DT (NE AR) have finally completed their digital antenna installations. Testing is scheduled to begin ~ May 17. KETS-DT will be on low VHF channel 5.

http://www.aetn.org/transmitter/

Nothing new from KATV, I am so glad that ABC doesn't air any programming all that worthwhile anyway. You would think the #1 station for news would be able to generate a little bit of revenue and have some pride in their station but I guess it's not to be. I find it amazing that UPN and Fox are the only stations able to run a full power transmitter, as I would suspect those stations are not able to charge for advertising like the big 3 are able to, especially since they don't have regular newscasts that generate the most eyeballs. I guess you could draw a conclusion that Fox and UPN are much better at managing their finances, or aren't full of the corporate greed that the other stations have.

Thank you for your interest. At this time there are no plans to increase the
power of our digital transmitter. To do so would require a major expenditure at
a time when there is no likelyhood of return on the investment. It was a
corporate decision to install a low power transmitter and it will be a corporate
decision when to increase the power.

James Tidwell
Director of Engineering
KATV, LLC

Fox 16 and UPN 38 are owned by Clear Channel, that's where their money comes from. Oh, and Fox does have a newscast now if you haven't noticed. 9PM every night (I run prompter or video 4 night aweek, check it ou.) Doesn't have much to do with DTV or HD, but just thought you might want to know.

Originally posted by nj829
Nothing new from KATV, I am so glad that ABC doesn't air any programming all that worthwhile anyway. You would think the #1 station for news would be able to generate a little bit of revenue and have some pride in their station Allbritton owns KATV and LR isn't the only market they are doing HD on the cheap.

KATV certainly isn't #1 for news at my house. I never watch their news... they're too full of themselves. And your right about ABC's programming - it sucks big time, just like NBC.

I actually watch the Fox 9:00 newscast, and appreciate having it an hour earlier. I was referring more towards the fact that the other stations have the morning shows, then noon, then 5 and 6 and 10, which provides more opportunities for eyeballs than one newscast (and very new) and more advertising revenue, plus weather sponsored by.....sports sponsored by.....traffic report sponsored by.....as for NBC not having much to watch, I was able to watch Las Vegas back in September when it first premiered in HD, which gives it an entirely different view than just analog or analog digital stretch cheap complying with the fcc stuff that KARK shows. I am still amazed to this day how far behind Little Rock is in HD compared to Des Moines, where we had CBS and NBC with full-blown 1080i full power, Fox full power, but not 480p, and a very very very weak ABC. Hopefully someday they will get on the ball here, but I sure am not holding my breath.

I have given up on KARK ever broadcasting in HD. It looks like Nexstar has no intention of broadcasting in HD here. What are the chances that the new SHVERA bill will include a provision that says that if you can not receive HD network programming from your local affiliate, you WOULD be able to get it from DBS. I would prefer to receive my network affiliates locally for local news and I understand that local business need as many eyes on their ads as possible but when the local affiliate has no intention of delivering a product that I desire I certainly feel I should have the right to get it elsewhere. If, and that is a big if, they begin to broadcast in HD they could cut off the distant station and I would have no objection. Just don't penalize me for your cheapness. Sorry for the rant. :mad:

/Dennis

Originally posted by dlott
... It looks like Nexstar has no intention of broadcasting in HD here. What are the chances that the new SHVERA bill will include a provision that says that if you can not receive HD network programming from your local affiliate, you WOULD be able to get it from DBS...I think SHVERA covers inability to receive network HD broadcasts via antenna, partially to pressure local stations to upgrade to HD.

NBC-HD on DirecTV will probably happen before SHVERA passes or Nexstar coughs up the money for KARK to go full power HD. If so, just "move" your DBS service address to a white area and get NBC-HD (NY & LA) via satellite.

arxaw,

Are you going to get an HD10-250 Tivo? I just hooked up Directv yesterday (6 year Dish customer) and am loving it so far. The SD-Tivo is great and am hoping to get the HD one soon. I've been checking Circuit City since they have been getting shipments in on a regular basis. No luck yet though.

Tusk.

If you live in the LR area I have the HR10-250 DVR. PM me and we will set up a time for you to check it out if you want. Lot of money for something sight unseen. Love mine by the way.

Originally posted by Tusk
arxaw,

Are you going to get an HD10-250 Tivo? I don't plan on it unless the price drops significantly later on.

I think you'll like DirecTV. I've had it since August 1995 (except for a few months in 2000, when I moved to a different house). It's certainly better than anything comcast has to offer in LR.

As far as setting up the CM 4221, can it be placed on a pole that is attached to a satellite footing. At one point I had two dishes with E*. After switching to D* I have a footing attached to the roof that I could attach a pole to with the 4221 on top. Will this work or is the 4221 to heavy for this type mounting.

I was thinking of using a pole like this.

http://www.summitsource.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=SS&Product_Code=MTW300&Category_Code=ANTMOUNT

Thanks for the input. I have thought of using an SS with it, but I don't want to worry about dropouts. I would prefer to do it right the first time.

Originally posted by dlott
Tusk.

If you live in the LR area I have the HD10-250 DVR. PM me and we will set up a time for you to check it out if you want. Lot of money for something sight unseen. Love mine by the way.

/Dennis

Thanks for the offer. I am planning on having HD with D* and since I'm spoiled on PVR's now, I will definitely be getting the HD10-250. Just a matter of time :D