I had a 70' Rohn 25G. I just kept adding 10' sections til I was clear of trees by a good 20'. I picked up Memphis at 140 miles every morning and night, during the day it was in and out. Channel Master Quantum UHF yagi at the time...No amp, and RG6. Didn't have a VHF antenna on the tower.

Dig a 3' square hole... Chop a little out of the side of the hole vertically. Drive a hard copper 8' pipe down that into ground about 4 feet, and pack dirt back around it so the concrete won't touch it leaving 6-12" above ground. Set your tower (I insulated the tower base mount from the electrical ground and painted it with tar to keep concrete from corroding it), add granite gravel to the bottom of the hole for drainage, pour your concrete. When dry, bond the bottom tower leg above ground to the copper pipe with copper or aluminum braided strapping. If lightning hits the tower, it will go through the strapping (probably melting it) to the copper pipe, and not blow out the concrete. You can then replace it. I used 3 sets of 3 guy wires, at 20, 40, and 60 feet. Never had any problems with wind...Maintain the guys annually... Guy anchors should be set in concrete deep enough to prevent the wind from pulling them out. I used a Ham II rotor, which was rated for 4x the windload of the antennas I had up there... (a 3 element Triband ham antenna, and the TV antenna and a two meter 11 element vertical yagi) on a 10' thickwall 1.5" EMT conduit pipe.

thinking about doing the same here at this house to clear the ridges all around me which are 60-100' higher.

Don't think you need lights unless you are within a mile of an airport. If its a concern, I'm sure one of the station engineers could tell you where the rules for that are.

Have a dx blast...and make sure you add the tower/antenna as a line item on your homeowners to make sure they cover it.

Thank you so much Dave, that is some awesome info, I already feel much more confident about installing all of this now. I'm not sure I would pick up a whole lot more stations East and West since I have Danville Mt. and Mt. Magazine to contend with in those directions. But I'm figuring North and South Might yield me a lot of channels. Either way, I'm excited about it. I'm sure its gonna take me a while to get all my stuff and get it into place.

About the Airport.

Yes, there is an airport to my east about 1-2 miles. Its on HWY 10 owned and built by Johnny Chambers the rich Banker, Jerry Jones's(owner or the Dallas Cowboys) is his brother in-law. So, I might have a small issue there. Planes and choppers fly over my house reguarly and sometimes they appear to be only 50-100 feet higher than my tallest trees, thats the main reason I asked about the flashing light.

One dilema on the tower would be antenna selection.

I dont know if I should use my CM3671 broadband Ant or Use seperate UHF and VHF Ants. Right now I have a setup aimed at Fort Smith that consist of a CM4228 8-Bay and Winegard PR9032 yagi. I have the CM7777 Amp, 4228 running into the VHF side and 9032 into the UHF side. The 4228 picks up a remapped 13.1-.4 which I think is actually received on ch 9. My concern is that 2.1 is going to use ch 7 and I dont know if the 4228 would pick up a VHF channel that low. IF it wouldnt, I'd probably be better off with the broadband Ant. If I do go with the seperate Ants, I'm thinking about getting the Televes DAT-75. A few years back, I almost bought a couple of Blake JBX21WB's to do a horizontal stacking technique. At the time, I couldnt get enough info to make me pull the trigger on the Blakes. I had read about Televes but like the blakes, didnt have enough info, plus at the time I dont think they were being sold in the USA. I've also considered going with the ATF X-300 from Atech Fabrication. The whole Dual Ant and Tilter is very tempting. He claims his Ants are lighter and beats most of the Blake and Televes on Performance. I'm pretty sure the ATF is a custom make Ant by this guy. I looked at some of the pics and the construction on these Ants looks to be heavy duty and very strong. Appreciate all the help and info guys, Lord knows I need all the help I can get:D

Below is a link to "A-tech Fabrication",

a cool place I found on the web a few years back. This guy developed his own mounting and tilting system for stacking antennas, plus he came up with his own harnessing and phasing setups. Here's the link

http://atechfabrication.com/reception_solutions.htm

Steveken: Can you see if your contact at Tribune can add 3ABN and KTWN (digital 27.x and 18.x) to their database, so Directv can add them to the OTA locals list, so my DVR's can tune them?
Not real sure that them adding it to their list would make DirecTV put it in their lineup for OTA reception. Plus, would they really be willing to do that since they are low power stations or stations that don't carry anything that is very popular?? What is on those channels anyway?

Plus, where would they get the guide data from? That was the biggest thing I ran into when trying to get them to put the PBS-HD into the comcast lineup. They wouldn't just go with the fact that it was the same as like 3 other stations, they had to actually find a way to get data about what is actually on the channel. It was all I could do to convince them to put KDIN's info in there for us. Damn near had to bribe her to do it. :)

Anyway, is there a place they can get guide data or anything else for that matter for these two channels??

FWIW, I have never seen any listings for KTWN-LD anywhere. They do not put any EPG data in their PSIP. They just kinda show whatever they want to when they want to on whatever channel they want to (except their re-broadcast of PBS on 18.2).

I can see how a placeholder for a channel would be of use in a DVR situation and would note that I have seen many channels on TitanTV/Zap2It that were just placeholders for some Dishnet stuff with no meaningful programming info.

dmatch

Arkyman give this forum a quick read it may help you
http://forums.qrz.com/archive/index.php/t-21448.html

Here is some contact info for that airport if you need it
http://www.airnav.com/airport/32A

Arkyman give this forum a quick read it may help you
http://forums.qrz.com/archive/index.php/t-21448.html

Here is some contact info for that airport if you need it
http://www.airnav.com/airport/32A

Thanks:)

Basically you can think 100 to 1 ratio. If you are 1 mile (5,280 feet) from the nearest end of the runway, you can put up an antenna 52.8 feet tall. Two miles would be 105.6 feet. Hopefully you are closer to 2 miles than 1 so you can put up a taller tower. :)

Been by that airport while heading up to Magazine to make ham radio contacts. I bet decent reception is tricky through there.

Basically you can think 100 to 1 ratio. If you are 1 mile (5,280 feet) from the nearest end of the runway, you can put up an antenna 52.8 feet tall. Two miles would be 105.6 feet. Hopefully you are closer to 2 miles than 1 so you can put up a taller tower. :)

Been by that airport while heading up to Magazine to make ham radio contacts. I bet decent reception is tricky through there.

Its taken alot of trial and error and $$$'s here to get the kind of reception I am satisfied with

Anyway, is there a place they can get guide data or anything else for that matter for these two channels??

I would assume they could get it from the station?

Arkyman: I've got the Televes DAT-75 and it kicks my quantum 1162a Deepest fringe uhf's sections ass... Its awesome...Has a solid state balun for direct 75 ohm connection, and its built like a tank.

Is Danville mountain the 1250' one I drove over today between Lake Greeson and Ola on Hy 7? If so, good luck!!!

I'd personally use a Televes for UHF side of the 7777, and get a VHF-hi yagi. I see no point in adding the size elements for vhf-lo unless you actually are trying to get the occasional E skip...Just my opinion tho.

The extra height will help with stations you get marginally now, and increase the signals of stations you lock... probably won't help much with tropo skip, which doesn't really care much about height, usually. Steveken was getting some stations on the last tropo on his rabbit ears that I couldn't lock with the Televes...Location...Location...Location.

Arkyman: I've got the Televes DAT-75 and it kicks my quantum 1162a Deepest fringe uhf's sections ass... Its awesome...Has a solid state balun for direct 75 ohm connection, and its built like a tank.

Is Danville mountain the 1250' one I drove over today between Lake Greeson and Ola on Hy 7? If so, good luck!!!

I'd personally use a Televes for UHF side of the 7777, and get a VHF-hi yagi. I see no point in adding the size elements for vhf-lo unless you actually are trying to get the occasional E skip...Just my opinion tho.

The extra height will help with stations you get marginally now, and increase the signals of stations you lock... probably won't help much with tropo skip, which doesn't really care much about height, usually. Steveken was getting some stations on the last tropo on his rabbit ears that I couldn't lock with the Televes...Location...Location...Location.

No, that mountain is probably part of the Ouachita Mountain range. I think Greeson is not far from Murfesboro. Danville mountain stands right over the city of Danville. I cant find the info on Danville Mt. its mostly undeveloped. Highway 27 runs accross it and connects Danville on one side to Plainview, Bluffton, Gravelly and Fouche Valley on the other side. Hwy 7 runs from Ola to hot springs and then on down south. I was told once that Danville Mt. is like 1,600 something feet tall. Its pretty high. That would mean its about 1,100 ft shorter than Mt. Magazine, looking at both, I'd say thats about right but I don't know it to be a fact. For Arkansas, I live between two Monsters

Did some research. Didnt think I was ever gonna find anything on it. Apparently unkown to everyone in this area who refers to it as Danville Mountain, its official name is Bunker Hill. it is 1,201 ft tall, 1 foot shorter than my tower will be........J/K:p

I would assume they could get it from the station?
Tell ya what, since I don't get that channel or have any other info about it, you might be better off getting ahold of them yourself. The address is lineups@tribune.com. The lady I talked to was Lynne. Maybe she can help.

Steveken: Ok, Thanks...got it figured out. I added Kansas City as a secondary local...Dont get KATV on 7-1 anymore, but do get all 4 18.x stations from Searcy now. KATV comes in from sat, so Ill just set the computer to record Ugly Betty as a backup.

Arkyman: I meant Nimrod...my bad. Took my lunch break watching the torrent rush out from the dam. It was a beautiful day today... On top of the mountain North of Nimrod and South of Ola, my GPS read 1250', and the CB radio was picking up stuff from everywhere...as was the FM radio...Sure would love to have a house in the woods up there.

The Dat-75 is sold in the US now, I believe. I got mine from Europe. The direct 75 ohm feed in itself saves a LOT of signal loss...most baluns are rated at 2:1 swr, a significant loss before you even hit the amp.

I'm gonna wait until next spring when KETS switches to ch 7, then I'm gonna split inputs and put a long boom 7-13 LP type up there.

Just found some company that came by a Channel Master "Parascope" model 4251, and is selling it for $1000.00 ... WOW.
Those that remember the good old days of antenna design, this is the HUGE parabolic reflector with twin bow tie active elements. I remember when they used to put them on 80' towers around Milwaukee to watch the Packers from Madison when the game was blacked out in Milwaukee.... Original price was $170 in the early 70's.

DAT-75 is $200
and they have the Televes version of the 4221 but much better built...

Can't post the link on this phone, but found it on Google search "Televes dat-75"

Just found some company that came by a Channel Master "Parascope" model 4251, and is selling it for $1000.00 ... WOW.
Those that remember the good old days of antenna design, this is the HUGE parabolic reflector with twin bow tie active elements. I remember when they used to put them on 80' towers around Milwaukee to watch the Packers from Madison when the game was blacked out in Milwaukee.... Original price was $170 in the early 70's.

DAT-75 is $200
and they have the Televes version of the 4221 but much better built...

Can't post the link on this phone, but found it on Google search "Televes dat-75"

Found it, and here (http://www.ultrasatellite.com/product_p/1097.htm) it is.

What would cause a screen door affect between my Directv HD receiver(tv input video 7), Maggy 2160 HDD/DVD recorder(tv video 6) and my Sony SXRD tv? About a week ago, I started noticing little black squares similar to looking through a screen window or door. Its very faint and can only be seen in lighter scenes like light blues, orange and so on. It does not show up in darker shades of blue. Surprisingly, white does not show it either. This is something new. My tv is about 14 months old and I've never noticed this until recently. I know it didnt exist before because I had several other people like my wife confirm she was seeing it too and had never noticed it before. I actually set my Noise reduction to "on" (I usually leave it "off") because it took the boxes away on Sunday. However, its still set to "on" and I started noticing the boxes again last night. I have not checked anything yet, I've been real busy. Can a loose HDMI cable or a defective cable cause what I'm seeing? It only does this on video 7 where the directv is and on video 6 where my HDD/DVD recorder is hooked and fed by the directv receiver for recordings.

Well, nevermind, I found a bad S-video cable from the Directv to the HDD recorder. Changed it and the problem is gone. As for it appearing directly from the box to the TV, I unplugged and re-plugged each end of the HDMI cable and the problem is now gone on Video 7 too. Checked all connections. The little BBC box seemed like it might have some issues too as moving it around made the problem either slightly worse or better. However, reconnecting both ends of the HDMI cable and changing the S-vid out for a new cable seems to have eliminated the problem. I started to delete the post since I've fixed it, but decided to leave it up as info incase someone else might experience similar problems.

BTW, I could make the problem worse and even completely eliminate it with the old S-vid cable by pushing up slightly on it where it hooks to the Svid port of the HDD/DVD recorder. This could mean one of two things. Either the port a little loose in the HDD or the cable end was worn out and was not making a tight enough connection. Since the new S-vid cable eliminated the problem, I'm thinking the real culprit was a bad end on the old S-vid cable that no longer allowed it to make a tight connection. I've probably pulled on the cable too much as I have had my tv pulled out a lot the last month adding new components and disconnection old components, I'm sure I gave her a good yank a time or two on accident and is probably what caused the problem to start with.

Sounds like a ground loop, but I thought Directv to TV using Hdmi was a 100% digital connection, and I wouldn't expect a ground loop to affect digital in that way, but I'm glad you fixed it. I've had my share of svid problems in the past with those cheap little connectors.

Sounds like a ground loop, but I thought Directv to TV using Hdmi was a 100% digital connection, and I wouldn't expect a ground loop to affect digital in that way, but I'm glad you fixed it. I've had my share of svid problems in the past with those cheap little connectors.

Yeah, I'm just glad it turned out to be a simple fix and not a problem with one of the actual components or tv, I was sweating it for a while and thinking....OH NO:(:D

I have to laugh...just checked tvfool.com, and it says I would need a 60' tower for LOS to Shinall (about right), and that KTWN is weaker than -100dbm (correct). Pretty accurate...And...Id only need to put a tower up 336' to get LOS to Mountain View :)
Maybe a onmi antenna on a hot air balloon with a RG11 tether?

Basically told me what I already knew...If you are in Little Rock, there just arent any "secondary locals" to consider... I was actually hoping it would list KAIT from Jonesboro, so I could get an idea what the signal level would be...but its not on there.

I have to laugh...just checked tvfool.com, and it says I would need a 60' tower for LOS to Shinall (about right), and that KTWN is weaker than -100dbm (correct). Pretty accurate...And...Id only need to put a tower up 336' to get LOS to Mountain View :)
Maybe a onmi antenna on a hot air balloon with a RG11 tether?

Basically told me what I already knew...If you are in Little Rock, there just arent any "secondary locals" to consider... I was actually hoping it would list KAIT from Jonesboro, so I could get an idea what the signal level would be...but its not on there.

I get several stations from LR and FS that TV fools says I'd have to have a 500 ft tower to get, even then, some that I do get at 18 feet are still not listed on the 500ft. I'm hoping we will get some stronger signals going out when the analogs are cleared. I read on TVfool where many stations are having to operate at lower powers to keep interference down. They also say some channels may move back down lower in the UHF band so that they curve around terrain and act more like the VHF signals. I'm hoping 42 will get with it and power up, its bascially my current headache, in and out in and out. I'm not worried about 2.1, at my location, I may never get it. I do get KAFT-DT-9 out of winslow that remaps to 13.1-.4 KAFT

Just a moment ago, checking on the FS side Antenna system. They ran an advertisement saying channel 60 analog located in Paris Ark will be moving to a digital feed on channel 34. The tower is 14.1 miles from me located on top of Mt.Magazine. I know this is the LR thread but some of you might be located in a position to get this channel, who knows, maybe it will tropo some night.


KRAH-CA

Licensee

FORT SMITH 46, INC.
City

PARIS
State

Arkansas
Service

TX
Channel

60
Antenna

Directional Antenna
Filenumber

BLTTL -19970415JD
Effective Radiated Power (kW)

34.7 kW
Antenna Height Above Average Terrain (HAAT)

0
Latitude

North
Degrees latitude

35
Minutes latitude

9
Seconds latitude

52
Longitude

West
Degrees longitude

93
Minutes longitude

40
Seconds longitude

52
Distant (radius) from entered latitude, longitude

0.00 km (0.00 mi)
Azimuth

0.00 deg
Height of antenna

854. m
Antenna id number

18080
Antenna pattern rotation

240
Antenna structure reg no

0

I get several stations from LR and FS that TV fools says I'd have to have a 500 ft tower to get, even then, some that I do get at 18 feet are still not listed on the 500ft. I'm hoping we will get some stronger signals going out when the analogs are cleared. I read on TVfool where many stations are having to operate at lower powers to keep interference down. They also say some channels may move back down lower in the UHF band so that they curve around terrain and act more like the VHF signals. I'm hoping 42 will get with it and power up, its bascially my current headache, in and out in and out. I'm not worried about 2.1, at my location, I may never get it. I do get KAFT-DT-9 out of winslow that remaps to 13.1-.4 KAFT

Just a moment ago, checking on the FS side Antenna system. They ran an advertisement saying channel 60 analog located in Paris Ark will be moving to a digital feed on channel 34. The tower is 14.1 miles from me located on top of Mt.Magazine. I know this is the LR thread but some of you might be located in a position to get this channel, who knows, maybe it will tropo some night.


KRAH-CA



Arky, there is an inactive translator channel 34 K34FH in Little Rock. It previously aired TBN programming in analog (I got them as often or more than "full power" KKAP 36) but is off the air. K34FH is planning on flash cutting to digital at some point. Since Equity has control of KRAH-CA i have doubts that KRAH moves to DTV before 2/17/2009---and even then I would think K34FH will be on the air as a LD (low power digital).

I have to laugh...just checked tvfool.com, and it says I would need a 60' tower for LOS to Shinall (about right), and that KTWN is weaker than -100dbm (correct). Pretty accurate...And...Id only need to put a tower up 336' to get LOS to Mountain View :)
Maybe a onmi antenna on a hot air balloon with a RG11 tether?

Basically told me what I already knew...If you are in Little Rock, there just arent any "secondary locals" to consider... I was actually hoping it would list KAIT from Jonesboro, so I could get an idea what the signal level would be...but its not on there.

If only KEMV's DTV would match their analog...*that* is a big signal. I seldom get WABG 6 analog here, but that KEMV 6 just blasts in nearly every morning.

As for "secondary ABC's OTA", my closest one WABG-DT (32) is dead in the water this far west and north due to CCI from KARK-DT and also unfavorable terrain to the East-Southeast (rolling hills). WPTY-DT (25) Memphis is blocked out by KVTN (analog 25) and won't decode even under strong tropo.

Signals from ABC's in Shreveport (KTBS-DT 28) and Springfield MO (KSPR-DT 19) are much more likely to make the trip here, and of course are dependent on favorable tropo scatter.

KAIT-DT is low power on ch 9 until T day when they flash cut to ch 8. I've gotten KAIT-DT in the past but not recently.

Its to put it bluntly, bad living in an ABC-HD OTA white area. I sometimes feel like early adopters watching NBC programming circa 1953 in Little Rock. Hopefully some new management will follow that new tower to the LR ABC "affiliate" on DTV 22 soon.

......
I'm hoping 42 will get with it and power up, its bascially my current headache, in and out in and out.
From looking at their construction permit engineering data it appears that the EXTRA power that KWBF-DT will be putting out will be generally to the southeast, toward Pine Bluff. The antenna pattern will be changed from a north bias (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/polarplot?temp=73231&rotate=0.00&p0=1.000&p10=1.000&p20=1.000&p30=0.970&p40=0.950&p50=0.900&p60=0.830&p70=0.730&p80=0.600&p90=0.500&p100=0.380&p110=0.270&p120=0.200&p130=0.150&p140=0.150&p150=0.160&p160=0.170&p170=0.180&p180=0.180&p190=0.180&p200=0.170&p210=0.160&p220=0.150&p230=0.150&p240=0.200&p250=0.270&p260=0.380&p270=0.500&p280=0.600&p290=0.730&p300=0.830&p310=0.900&p320=0.950&p330=0.970&p340=1.000&p350=1.000&p360=1.000&) to a southeast bias (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/polarplot?temp=59098&rotate=0.00&p0=0.280&p10=0.270&p20=0.350&p30=0.460&p40=0.570&p50=0.660&p60=0.720&p70=0.770&p80=0.800&p90=0.840&p100=0.870&p110=0.910&p120=0.940&p130=0.980&p140=0.990&p150=1.000&p160=0.990&p170=0.980&p180=0.940&p190=0.910&p200=0.870&p210=0.840&p220=0.800&p230=0.770&p240=0.720&p250=0.660&p260=0.570&p270=0.460&p280=0.350&p290=0.270&p300=0.280&p310=0.340&p320=0.400&p330=0.420&p340=0.400&p350=0.340&p360=0.280&).

Where I am located the power will only slightly increase (~15%). Depending on the exact angle to the transmitter from Danville you could lose power there.

However, since they will also add about 150 meters to the antenna height, perhaps that will help us.

dmatch

Arky, there is an inactive translator channel 34 K34FH in Little Rock. It previously aired TBN programming in analog (I got them as often or more than "full power" KKAP 36) but is off the air. K34FH is planning on flash cutting to digital at some point. Since Equity has control of KRAH-CA i have doubts that KRAH moves to DTV before 2/17/2009---and even then I would think K34FH will be on the air as a LD (low power digital).

That was the first time I had ever heard them mention digital. I just assumed when the lights went out on 2-17-09, they'd go dark forever. However, after some extensive reading, I have found info that says only the largest transmittes are affected in this first wave of the change. Apparently, a whole lot of lower power analog channels will still exist for quite some time. I'm surprised that KRAH would be changing over on that date. I am assuming this move is being made on their own and not one of the mandated moves, if so, then kudos to them for stepping up and making the transition. some of the larger stations could take a lesson or two from a tv station that doesnt need someone to FORCE them to do things.....KATV..hint hint

My understanding is that channels 60-69 have to be completely vacant on 02/17/09, but low-powered stations can continue to occupy 52-59 on a secondary basis until the new spectrum owner asks them to shut down so they can start their services. Full-powered stations cannot be using 52-59 after next year at all.

- Trip

My understanding is that channels 60-69 have to be completely vacant on 02/17/09, but low-powered stations can continue to occupy 52-59 on a secondary basis until the new spectrum owner asks them to shut down so they can start their services. Full-powered stations cannot be using 52-59 after next year at all.

- Trip

Ok, lets get past 2/17/09 and say we are 3 years down the road. All analog has finally ceased to exist, all channels whatever their power range may be have made the permanent move to digital transmitters. What channels will TV be allowed to broadcast on after this particular point in time. Will it be restricted to channels 7-51. I havent found anything yet that discloses the final allotment of channels that will be useable in the TV spectrrum. Do you know or have any ideas? Does anyone know. I'm just wondering how much the current spectrum will shrink and will this give Antenna Manufactuers a chance to construct higher gain antennas for lets say 7-51. I know the antennas in theory could shrink in overall size sine the biggest parts or widest spans (width) of an antenna would not be required any longer. If I understand it correctly, its the largest end of my CM3671 broadband that is needed for channels 2-6. After the complete change over, I'd think manufactuers would adjust by producing much smaller broadband anteannas with many more elements and higher gains. I'd think loosing the big end of the Ant would probably cut production cost dramatically, especially when you add it up over bulk production. I'm just a curious DX'er who dont know much, but I'm trying to learn:D:)

As far as I know, LPTV stations can continue to occupy 52-59 until the spectrum owner says otherwise. There might be a hard limit I'm not aware of.

2-6 will still be allowed but most stations will avoid it.

- Trip

As far as I know, LPTV stations can continue to occupy 52-59 until the spectrum owner says otherwise. There might be a hard limit I'm not aware of.

2-6 will still be allowed but most stations will avoid it.

- Trip


So I guess it would be safe to assume that broadband ants like mine will stay in their larger bulky form to accomodate rare situations that might require 2-6. I think Anteanna manufactuers could make good money by building Ants to a specific areas reception needs. I know we used to have what was called the "River Valley Special" that you could pick up at Radio shack and other surrounding hardware stores. Now this was back in the 1970's and 80's when all you got was mainly the 4 major networks and maybe PBS. The river valley is a unique situation where reception is possible from LR and FS. The "River Valley Special" was setup for folks of in areas like ours to receive stations from both markets in one set position without needing a rotor. I remember when I was a kid, just about every house in about a 30-40 mile radius had exactly the same Antenna. It was manufactuered by Antenna Craft. I'm sure Anteanna Craft didnt design it specifically for my location, Im sure somewhere else in the USA it was called something else, but you know how local marketing and all that goes ,they call it something that sounds as if it was made for you specifically. However, it was a Bi-Directional designed for channesls 2-13 in reception areas that had two markets on opposite sides, hence my location, Little Rock East....Fort Smith West and their offsets are almost 180 degrees apart which made an anteanna of this design really over achieve in a Bi directional enviornment. We received these channels on it.

Little Rock

AETN 2....Descent
KARK 4....Good
KATV 7....Ok, always had a little snow in the PQ
KTHV 11 ... Good

Fort Smith

KFSM 5... Good
KAFT 13..Snowier than KATV ch 7 but watchable

Mountain View

KEMV 6....Pretty snowy, sometimes watchable, seems like it either interfere with channel 5 or 4 or maybe 5 interfered with 4, I cant remember now, its been too long.


Keep in mind that I do realize this was an all VHF antenna which was fine at the time, but we do need mainly UHF these days. However it seems some channels are stubborn and insist on remaining in the VHF band. Just think how dramatically the physical size of antennas would change if all broadcasting tv channels would move into the UHF spectrum.

As far as I know, LPTV stations can continue to occupy 52-59 until the spectrum owner says otherwise. There might be a hard limit I'm not aware of.

2-6 will still be allowed but most stations will avoid it.

- Trip

except for holdouts like WMC (NBC) Memphis. :(

except for holdouts like WMC (NBC) Memphis. :(

I feel your pain. My PBS is on channel 3 already and despite countless problems, they've decided to throw money at maxing out power and dropping the directional pattern on channel 3, rather than just building out a UHF like they should.

- Trip

I feel your pain. My PBS is on channel 3 already and despite countless problems, they've decided to throw money at maxing out power and dropping the directional pattern on channel 3, rather than just building out a UHF like they should.

- Trip

They're not my local NBC station so I don't have to worry about them. But those in East Central and Northeastern Arkansas certainly will.

My local PBS is also low band (KETS on ch5) but only for a few more months. Its directional to protect current WMC analog and KFSM analog.

Trip, isn't your local PBS WBRA? I logged them (the low-band DTV) via E-skip 2 years ago and then this summer. PSIP only, no video or audio.

Yep, that's them. I bet your e-skip was more reliable than my reception at home. :D

- Trip

Got into Birmingham AL (http://tvdxseark.blogspot.com/2008/09/new-one-in-two-modes.html) this morning.

Yea, I was getting Holly Springs again. I just split the 7777 with the Dat75 on UHF and plugged the quantum into VHF. What's south of here on VHF I might look for. Ch2,4,5,7,9,11,12 are in use here. Getting a weak signal from Arkadelphia on 13.... anything on 3, 6, 8, or 10?

Yea, I was getting Holly Springs again. I just split the 7777 with the Dat75 on UHF and plugged the quantum into VHF. What's south of here on VHF I might look for. Ch2,4,5,7,9,11,12 are in use here. Getting a weak signal from Arkadelphia on 13.... anything on 3, 6, 8, or 10?

That Holly Springs TBN station (WBUY-DT 41) always comes in every opening from Memphis, WKNO-DT (29) seems to be the second strongest. Even WREG-DT (28), and WLMT-DT (31) were locking.

I got WBBJ-DT (43) in Jackson, TN and was hoping for Nashville since WZTV analog dropped in. The "CW21" from Birmingham (WTTO) was a first for analog and digital (DT on 28) here.

The question of VHF...there isn't anything down here on DTV VHF (save for KETS) other than KETG-DT 13 and KETZ-DT (12) El Dorado-- that one has never been logged. Monroe has a DTV on channel 7 (KNOE), but they are moving to ch8 after T-Day, and KETZ will take over ch 10, and KAQY will flash to DTV on 11. I think VHF high will be somewhat crowded after the transistion with AETN leading the way.

5 WMC
7 KETS*
8 KNOE, KAIT
9 KAFT
10 KETZ*, KOLR
11 KAQY
12 KTHV*
13 KETG*, KEMV, WHBQ

(* likely locals available at this location 24/7 after 2/17/2009, others are possible tropo targets)

Packers @ Tampa Bay (12 noon KLRT)
Redskins @ Cowboys (3pm KLRT)
Broncos @ Chiefs (12 noon KTHV)

Watching the Presidential debate...it appears KETS is downconverting the widescreen HD feed and upconverting to transmit...PBS-HD was much sharper. Shouldn't matter having subchannels on a talking head show... And noticed they had scrolling graphics in the 4:3 area, on the 16:9 picture... If they can't record/time shift HD, how can they add a scroll to a passthrough HD feed, unless they are in fact mixing it through their non-HD master control?

I don't know. I just wish someone would do like other major cities, and put up a second PBS station, in HD, with no subchannels.

PBS used to be they leader in quality across the board...Now, its like they either can't afford it, or don't care.

except for holdouts like WMC (NBC) Memphis. :(

I'm looking forward to being able to use WMC as a propagation beacon :)

Watching the Presidential debate...it appears KETS is downconverting the widescreen HD feed and upconverting to transmit...PBS-HD was much sharper. Shouldn't matter having subchannels on a talking head show... And noticed they had scrolling graphics in the 4:3 area, on the 16:9 picture... If they can't record/time shift HD, how can they add a scroll to a passthrough HD feed, unless they are in fact mixing it through their non-HD master control?

I don't know. I just wish someone would do like other major cities, and put up a second PBS station, in HD, with no subchannels.

PBS used to be they leader in quality across the board...Now, its like they either can't afford it, or don't care.

The problem isn't PBS but AETN.

They don't get HD at all. Like the masses, "HD" they believe is anything widescreen regardless of picture quality. AETN has made a major step BACKWARDS with this move, and accomplished two things.


AETN gives a false impression of what HDTV actually is
AETN killed the X-2 sub during primetime and another opportunity to watch programming missed or preempted by AETN.


But when commercial local stations are stretching pictures, network affiliates are preempting network programming for infomercials the dumbing down does tend to sink deep.

I've said it before, but this "HD" plan by AETN is neither fish, nor fowl. Please go back to the 4 SD's with occasional true HD feeds.

I'm looking forward to being able to use WMC as a propagation beacon :)

DTV ch 28 (WREG, KTBS, KSFX) is a great beacon down here, but I don't have to deal with that LPTV ch28 pest from LR.

Pretty much these days I use analog TV for beacons, mainly ch3. I'm tempted to put up a tall dipole cut for ch5 aimed to Memphis. If their DTV propagates the way WMC analog did a few years ago it should be interesting. That however doesn't excuse WMC from wanting to go low VHF. Memphians in apartments won't like it at all.

Button punchers asleep again at KARK-DT.
First 20 minutes of Golf on KARK-DT in SD. Then, suddenly it got punched up in HD.
What is the answer to this problem???
Phone calls to management don't seem to fix it.
With the loss of DNS next month, our HD viewing whether OTA or Local HD will not happen if they continue to not pay more attention to their job. I am fairly sure that this was no NBC feed problem.

I too am disappointed with the lack of professionalism at many stations locally. I am watching less and less local TV. Seems like many times that I try to enjoy something in HD there is some sort of snafu. Whether it be interference issues (KETS-DT comes to mind) or asleep at the switch issues some crap seems to happen.

AND what causes the tendency for HD Television drama shows to be so dark? Ugly sets that can't stand up to the light of day and HDTV? There are a couple of exceptions, ER and CSI Miami come to mind, but for the most part, most times, if a scene is set in-doors it seems really dark and I find this irritating and a waste of HDTV's potential. Outdoor scenes do not seem to suffer this same degradation, nor do Sports done in HD.

I find myself watching stuff I have downloaded from the internet, feeds on BUD satellite or stuff I recorded many years ago and have been converting to decent quality digital SD (old B/W movies on VHS convert quite nicely via MPEG 4) to be watched via computer. Just messing around removing commercials from old long ago recorded shows and converting them is more or less my major form of TV entertainment lately. I can probably mess around with stuff like that thru the entire winter if not longer. Gonna have to get an extra hard disk.

Part of the problem for me is there is just not much I would want to watch even if it were done good and in a professional manner.

Maybe it will get better but I ain't holding my breath. :(

dmatch

The writers strike last year did in much of my network viewing. Why bother with the networks when third-rate "reality" shows became a staple. I also all but wrote off ABC viewing when our "affiliate" lost the tower (and a reliable OTA HD feed).

I'm not one of the older guys here, but sometimes the programming was better in the old days--no infomercials, etc.

....

I'm not one of the older guys here, but sometimes the programming was better in the old days--no infomercials, etc.
Heh! I resemble that.;):D

dmatch

Anybody seeing the game in HD OTA?

Anybody seeing the game in HD OTA?
I presume you mean the Hogs and I can't get 7 OTA in HD. I can get it from DTV, and it's not in HD. What gives?

Yes, the Tenn v. Auburn game looks good on CBS. ;)

dmatch

They turned off HD when with the kickoff so they could run their data crawl on the Old Miss game, now they have not gone back.

If I remotely cared what the "hogs" did, I suppose I could watch the direct HD feed, but I'm watching Nascar and the Cubs/Brewers game at the moment. Strange they would pay extra for the HD feed and send it out in SD though.

http://www.hdsportsguide.com/files/sep-27-abc-map.jpg

According to the coverage map, the game is NOT in HD at all, it's not a local thing. Of course, I think I was having more fun doing yard work, so I think I'll get back to that. :)

I had to return to work before kickoff....heard the score on the radio coming home. The Hogaholics with their "flat screens" were certainly crying in their beer for more than one reason.

This thread is only 700 posts shorter than Chicago...Guess we talk more than we watch.

This thread is only 700 posts shorter than Chicago...Guess we talk more than we watch.


Hey, we're passionate about this. Some of the boards have been inactive for months and even years.

Well, I settled on pointing the Quantum at 210 degrees for KETS and KTHV (70 and 90% respectively), and the Dat75 pointed at 30 degrees for the rest: KARK,KLRT 100%, KASN 70%, KTWN 75%, KWBF 90%... Seems to work well, and allows me to rotate both. Once the Digital transition occurs, I'm going to mount a second tripod or push up, or small tower, and have the VHF-Hi and UHF on separate rotors, and feed both antennas to the 7777 with its single downlead. Seems the best DX solution, with the lack of VHF-lo band. wonder how effective two stacked 10 element VHF-Hi yagis would be?

...The Hogaholics with their "flat screens" were certainly crying in their beer for more than one reason.Naw, the hogaholics weren't crying about their flat screens, just the score. Most of them leave their "flat screens" on permanent stretch and were too drunk to notice and picture quality differences. :)

The game was in SD on KHOG-DT 15, Fayetteville and KSPR-DT 19, Springfield.
[It was presented in SD by ABC, so even katv couldn't f*** it up.]

For anyone that cares, if you have Directv AND a Directv interactive receiver, the Weather Channel (SD only) now has "local on the 8's"... Its ok for forcasts, but the radar is centered on Texas.

Packers @ Tampa Bay (12 noon KLRT)
Redskins @ Cowboys (3pm KLRT)
Broncos @ Chiefs (12 noon KTHV)

I scheduled a record for the Packer game (the hometown team), and noticed tonight the schedule changed for KLRT to show the 49'ers vs Saints. So much for watching Ch16...Big dish time...Ill find it somewhere in SD. God I hate our local stations programming depts.

Doing a little DXing here at Midnight. Using the tuner in my Directv -100. My OTA system pointed East toward Little Rock. I'm picking up OETA 3-1 and 3-2. Best I can tell this is from Eufaula Oklahoma which is somewhere West of me. Yep, commericial just confirmed this as Eufaula, OK, NTSC ch 3 broadcast channel UHF 31 This might also explain why my Box has locked 31-20 and 31-21 locked but only a black screen. I guess its re-mapping to 3-1 & -2. Locked with no drop outs at 64%. I do not know if this is a channel I will always get or if its just coming in tonight only, strange that it would lock on the LR side, but 40.1 KHBS from Fort Smith locks on the LR side all the time. I have not scanned in a while until tonight. I noticed the station in Eufaula does say its transmitting at 1,000KW full power. Think I'll swing toward Eldorado and Fort Smith and see if I can get a few more surprises


Just scanned and locked these same channels on my Sony SXRD TV's ATSC tuner. To my surprise, the tv's tuner is locking them at 70%, even better than the directv-100. I also have the signal split thru a low loss regal splitter, -3.5db running to the -100 and -7db running to my sony tv's ATSC and it still has a stronger signal...... I'm confused unless my sony has a super sensitive tuner


OETA 3-1 & -2 is coming in at 90% on the Fort Smith Side. Also, 31-5 & 31-6 are locking and am able to watch the same shows on them as 3-1 & -2. Also, 31-8 & 31-9 lock but only put up a black screen. Nothing else new on the Fort Smith side. I scanned in several different spots wherever I was getting descent analog channels, however, no other new digitals so far.

My Pansat logs readings in the low 90's for stations my Directv AM21 reads as 60's. Directv receivers are conservative or use a different method for calculating the readings. My Directv box will lock and show a solid picture at 30% where my Pansat requires 50%.... Same signal, same antenna, same time.

My Pansat logs readings in the low 90's for stations my Directv AM21 reads as 60's. Directv receivers are conservative or use a different method for calculating the readings. My Directv box will lock and show a solid picture at 30% where my Pansat requires 50%.... Same signal, same antenna, same time.

I kind of figured it might be something like that but was not sure. thanks for that info Dave. I'm starting to think I will get OETA all the time since it was 90% on the FS side. I had not scanned in a long time and its possible this channel has been there for a while and I just didnt have it logged yet. Hope so, that would be cool to have an Oklahoma channel locked at my convienen:Dce

Signals are definitely stronger than usual here tonight, just checked 42-1 and its at 87%, on the norm, if I get it at 62-65% I'm doing good

I've never been able to get Ft Smith...You would think the signal would bounce down the river at least once...course, I've never logged Missouri either, and Haley gets it every week, and he is 100 miles farther!

Checking in @ lunchtime....

Arky,

I last logged OETA-Eufaula (KOET-DT 31 "3-n") the weekend of Sept 9th (when all that tropo was jacked up). I even got the analog that night which is unusual for those guys.

Dave,

The problem getting KFSM in Little Rock is that nearby KTWN--again the CCI/frequency coordination issue. And KHBS-DT is on 21. Since KKYK-CA (analog 20) throws a decent directional signal toward LR, it in effect blocks out KSPR-DT (19) and KHBS-DT (21). Seemingly the channels in this area are jammed together so tight.

As for the other FS station, KFTA-DT its low power, plus there is the new 3ABN DT translator on ch 27 (which also blocks out KTVE-DT for you). KHOG-DT 15 in Fayetteville is close to analog KLRT (gone in 2009) so that might be a good target, but both KHOG and KHBS's DT's are much lower power than KSPR (! MW on DTV). Not sure if the ch9 translator in LR will go away (that's blocking KAFT-DT 9 from any dxing in LR).

If, KAIT gets their DTV signal on ch8 equivalent strength (after Transistion Day), there may be hope for a backup ABC OTA, but I'm not sure it will be reliable without a wing, prayer, and lots of Rohn 25G :D Their analog is a pest, nearly as bad as KEMV.

I'm kinda looking forward to D-Day. These analogs down here kill me. Be nice if the fcc would assign channels a little better.

Heres some info about KHBS 40.1 & .2 , somtimes its 21.3 & 21.4 out of Fort Smith.


FORT SMITH DTV=21 PWR=325kW ERP(max alloted by fcc) Height=602.0 meters

says right now during tansition period it covers about 21,000 sq km and serves about 310,000 people

I get this channel in the 90 percentile range most of the time here, surely they are running a higher KW power than this chart shows. On the FS thread, 40/29engineering could probably answer this question, he works for them. I think he did address it a while back, they have 2 transmitters.

OETA 3.1 from Eufaula is now down to 14%, guess it was just tropo:(

I should have added that OETA is their PBS stations equivilant to our AETN

Every signal over 60 miles away is Tropo unless you are on top of Mt. Magazine :)

Every signal over 60 miles away is Tropo unless you are on top of Mt. Magazine :)

I've always wondered what reception would be like on top of Mt.Magazine. I did not know that over 60 miles away was considered tropo. That means even though I get 38.1 from Redfield 99% of the time, its tropo. The tower is right at 79 or so miles from me, maybe 76, I dont remember, just know its high 70's. Also, all the towers on Shinall Mt. are in the 54-55 mile range from me. Wow:eek:...I almost live in Tropo-ville :D:)

Now you guys have me wanting to take a small tv, converter & an inverter up there. It is fun to take a ham radio up there but I haven't tried that yet.

I bet FCC Phase II will be to get rid of (sell) channels 2-6. Nobody wants it but a few holdouts like WMC, it would sure simplify things. Not much benefit having that few channels & most homeowner associations don't like big antennas.

Hey...Breaking News... Its raining in Mountain View.... and the gawdy map is covering a large portion of the screen, on premier week... Arhhhhhhhhh !!!!!!j

I bet FCC Phase II will be to get rid of (sell) channels 2-6. .

I read somewhere the plan was to expand the FM broadcast band as well as sell off portions of 2-5. Could use more FM bandwidth.

The plan is currently that 2-6 stay in the core. It's just that most sane people want to see 2-6 repurposed for FM, either an expanded analog, or a digital FM band.

- Trip

The plan is currently that 2-6 stay in the core. It's just that most sane people want to see 2-6 repurposed for FM, either an expanded analog, or a digital FM band.

- Trip

How cool would it be to get all your digitals and get to keep the exiting major networks in Analog on channels 2-6. I know it wont happen, but it actually would be smart to have backups. Not sure if the lineup I listed would cause major adjacent channel problems or not. We had 4, 5, 6 and 7 on antenna when I was growing up, sometimes they had a minimal amount of interference but never nothing major that made them unwatchable

Channel

2 PBS
3 NBC
4 ABC
5 CBS
6 FOX

There is space between 5 and 6, and lots of space between 6 and 7.
Would be nice though, each state could have a 200-400KW low band analog (+3 to 6 db more than currently allowed). Since it would be backup, co-channel interference and co-state interference would just be the responsibility of the receiving side. I'm guessing that with few exceptions, you would be able to pick up one group from just about anywhere. Like clear channel AM used to be at night.

How cool would it be to get all your digitals and get to keep the exiting major networks in Analog on channels 2-6. I know it wont happen, but it actually would be smart to have backups. Not sure if the lineup I listed would cause major adjacent channel problems or not. We had 4, 5, 6 and 7 on antenna when I was growing up, sometimes they had a minimal amount of interference but never nothing major that made them unwatchable

Channel

2 PBS
3 NBC
4 ABC
5 CBS
6 FOX

Here is a wikipedia article about the UK using the old 405 line B&W system well into the early 1980's. When Britain started PAL color (which was all UHF) about 1967 the Band I 405-line system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/405_line) (very low band VHF, starting in the mid-low 40mhz range) remained as a back up because fewer transmitters were needed in rural areas. The last 405 line transmitter was shutdown in 1985. The 405 line system wasn't compatable with PAL color, but a few sets were dual mode.

Its going to be very interesting after February 09, to compare KATV which will be state of the art full power on the lowest assigned UHF channel locally, with KTHV, using one of the two best propagating upper VHF channels, out in the country. I'm curious how the two are going to stack up.
I was testing FM stations on my last trip to Mountain Home, and 94.1 and 98.5 were solid up hy 65 til I got to St Joe/Buffalo River...There were spots, notably Marshall, where the signal was picket fencing, due to the shadow of the mountain ridge... Going up hy 14, it was pretty solid all the way to the Buffalo as well. KEMV audio (ch 6) kicked ass all over the region, and didn't begin to exhibit any drops until I got just south of Conway on I-40 (using the stock GMC FM radio in the van). Ill test some ATSC reception with my laptop and a portable antenna next year.

Hey...Breaking News... Its raining in Mountain View.... and the gawdy map is covering a large portion of the screen, on premier week... Arhhhhhhhhh !!!!!!j

Yeah, I was glad someone was paying a little attention at KARK, we only missed the first several minutes of Hiro & Ando's subtitled dialogue on Heroes, before someone decided to turn off the maps.

...I was testing FM stations on my last trip to Mountain Home, and 94.1 and 98.5 were solid up hy 65 til I got to St Joe/Buffalo River...Davenlr,
Next time you're up this way, try for LR FM in your vehicle.

KARK-TV analog 4 makes it all the way to East Van Buren St. (Hwy 62E) in Eureka.
Here's a google earth screen grab of predicted KARK-4 reception here:
http://i36.tinypic.com/esm49c.jpg

There are several houses along Hwy 23, just South of Eureka, with outdoor TV antennas pointed toward> Little Rock.

The audio on the HD channel of Ch16's Directv is all screwed up. The sd version is OK. Since it is doing it on both my HD receivers I'm guessing it is a satellite problem not anything on my end.

Anybody else note the audio this AM?

The audio on the HD channel of Ch16's Directv is all screwed up. The sd version is OK. Since it is doing it on both my HD receivers I'm guessing it is a satellite problem not anything on my end.

Anybody else note the audio this AM?

Went over to check OTA, audio is fine. Programming is a different story :(

I apologize if this has already been asked. Does anyone know if Dish Network will be adding HD locals and if so when?

Thanks.

I apologize if this has already been asked. Does anyone know if Dish Network will be adding HD locals and if so when?

Thanks.

Not anytime soon for Central Arkansas or NW Arkansas. What general area (town) are you located? You may be able to receive some or most of the LR locals OTA using the Dish receiver's OTA HDTV tuner.

I live in Maumelle. I do get them OTA except for ABC. But ABC is the one I was most interested in as it has alot of the SEC games. Also the lose HD signal often even on the channels I do get OTA. But I also wanted to HD-DVR the shows my wife and I watch. Dish is coming out Saturday to upgrade me to HD. I would have gone with Direct TV but up front cost for them is $300 where Dish is $0 (I got them to do this if they wanted to keep me as a customer).

I live in Maumelle. I do get them OTA except for ABC. But ABC is the one I was most interested in as it has alot of the SEC games. Also the lose HD signal often even on the channels I do get OTA. But I also wanted to HD-DVR the shows my wife and I watch. Dish is coming out Saturday to upgrade me to HD. I would have gone with Direct TV but up front cost for them is $300 where Dish is $0 (I got them to do this if they wanted to keep me as a customer).LR HD is not on Dish's list. You can get a DirecTV HD DVR (with local HD) for $100. Or get the free Dish HD equipment and no HD locals on satellite.

KATV will be on their new tower soon and it should be the easiest channel to receive OTA, once they get it up & running. It will be on the air long before Dish adds the LR HD locals.

LR HD is not on Dish's list. You can get a DirecTV HD DVR (with local HD) for $100. Or get the free Dish HD equipment and no HD locals on satellite.

KATV will be on their new tower soon and it should be the easiest channel to receive OTA, once they get it up & running. It will be on the air long before Dish adds the LR HD locals.
Yes, $100 for the HD-DVR. But I also have 2 other rooms with DVR.

The new KATV tower will be a great help. At least you can point your antenna to one location instead of splitting the difference between Redfield & Shinall Mountain to get all the major networks.

KETS & KASN should just move up there & make everybody's lives easier.

Wolfman, you can choose free equipment (dish) or better HD programming (DirecTV).

The audio on the HD channel of Ch16's Directv is all screwed up. The sd version is OK. Since it is doing it on both my HD receivers I'm guessing it is a satellite problem not anything on my end.

Anybody else note the audio this AM?

DirecTV is working on it, they are not sure what the problem is. It is on their end though, I am handing the same signal out of the same DA off to 3 of their competitors and they don't have the issue.

Supposedly this was fixed earlier in the day and has gone back to bad audio again.

E

wolfman01: You should get all the LR locals without breakup using OTA (except maybe PBS)...Do you have an outdoor or attic yagi, or are you trying to use an indoor antenna? LR is to complicated a digital setup to get reliable reception of a dvr with an indoor antenna.

I live in Maumelle. I do get them OTA except for ABC. But ABC is the one I was most interested in as it has alot of the SEC games. Also the lose HD signal often even on the channels I do get OTA. But I also wanted to HD-DVR the shows my wife and I watch. Dish is coming out Saturday to upgrade me to HD. I would have gone with Direct TV but up front cost for them is $300 where Dish is $0 (I got them to do this if they wanted to keep me as a customer).I'm not sure which TV/tuner you are using, but if you're having dropouts now, you'll likely have them with the Dish equipment. The OTA tuners they use in thei DVRs are not the best. You need a good outdoor antenna system for reliable reception. Otherwise, you'll be frustrated trying to record stuff full of dropouts.

If you're not interested in CW or PBS, you can simplify the antenna setup by just aiming a good VHF+UHF outdoor antenna at Shinall Mountain.

Yeah, I was glad someone was paying a little attention at KARK, we only missed the first several minutes of Hiro & Ando's subtitled dialogue on Heroes, before someone decided to turn off the maps.
Again, TORRENTS. :)

Again, TORRENTS. :)

Again, I didn't buy a big screen HDTV, HD DVR and surround sound system to watch tv on my laptop.:)

Again, I didn't buy a big screen HDTV, HD DVR and surround sound system to watch tv on my laptop.:)
You don't have a DVI, VGA, or HDMI connection off that laptop? You don't have any of those connections on the TV? :) See where I am going with this? hehehe For the audio, most of the time anyway, the surround signal can still be decoded by just using an 1/8th inch headphone to RCA cable into the stereo. Works pretty well on mine anyway.

The point is this, if the commercials or the idiotic maps for areas that are barely covered by the station in the first place bug you enough, you will find a way to get the same content out of the same TV with the minimum amount of loss of quality. :) It sure makes TV viewing that much more enjoyable when you don't have to worry with commercials or other obstructions. I LOVE having that extra 16 minutes after a 1-hour show is over to do other stuff or watch another show instead of sitting/fast forwarding/zapping through commericals.

Again, I didn't buy a big screen HDTV, HD DVR and surround sound system to watch tv on my laptop.:)Bingo. And it's not worth the hassle of connecting a computer to my HDTV and trying to keep it all working. TV itself is complicated enough nowadays.

If I can't get decent TV OTA or through a provider like D*, I just turn the damned thing off.

You don't have a DVI, VGA, or HDMI connection off that laptop? You don't have any of those connections on the TV? :) See where I am going with this? hehehe For the audio, most of the time anyway, the surround signal can still be decoded by just using an 1/8th inch headphone to RCA cable into the stereo. Works pretty well on mine anyway.


I think we've had this conversation before, and honestly, I did look into the HTPC options earlier this summer after I got rid of Dish and it's dual tuner DVR, but it just doesn't seem worth the hassle for me. To answer your questions, no, the best output my laptop has is S-Video, and the best on my TV is component, no DVI or HDMI on either. I have been waiting for the Echostar TR-50, but I think I've decided that I would rather pay the little bit extra for a TivoHD, due to the extra features it has and the potential problems facing the TR-50, notably the guide accuracy.

Wow, you guys just aren't as hardcore of hobbyists when it comes to computers and TV as I am I guess. You do, however, spend way way way more time on these antennas than I ever would. If you have the right cables and know where to plug things in to the TV and stereo, it is no problem what-so-ever to get computer output to the TV, the only other hassle after that is a remote for it, but there are ways around that. There really is nothing complicated about it.

Like for you, Rocky, your laptop has a VGA out port on it (that I can almost guarantee because all laptops have the ability to connect up to an external monitor). There exists cables that have VGA on one end and RCA component plugs on the other end to get this sort of video hookup going. They are pretty cheap on eBay (like $5 to $10 probably) and you could probably get one long enough to have it sitting beside you potentially. And a headphone extension cable would take care of the audio very easily. Its simply a 1 minute hookup job and you are set to enjoy your program.

I know its not for everyone, but I just thought I would throw that out there because I hate weather maps and commercials just as much as the next guy (or you could say more depending on who it is we are comparing). Once you understand the basics of the connections, its childs play and provides hours of enjoyment. Hell, you have to do SOMETHING with your old computers when you upgrade, why not use it for something like this? :)

Well, I might look into a VGA-to-component cable, I've already got an audio cable, for playing my MP3 player through my audio system. It would help with the shows we've missed so far this season that we'll have to watch online. But even if I did that, it would remain my back up way of watching TV, not the primary way. Plus, it would drive my wife crazy, 90% of the time we're watching TV together, she's got the laptop surfing the net. :)

Well, I might look into a VGA-to-component cable, I've already got an audio cable, for playing my MP3 player through my audio system. It would help with the shows we've missed so far this season that we'll have to watch online. But even if I did that, it would remain my back up way of watching TV, not the primary way. Plus, it would drive my wife crazy, 90% of the time we're watching TV together, she's got the laptop surfing the net. :)
I know it wouldn't be your primary, was just offering it as an alternate source for the times when the silly weather maps are concealing part of the screen or when other sources prevent you from watching. I never really understood watching TV while surfing the net because every time I have tried it, I ended up missing part of the show or movie. It's just too much of a distraction sometimes. Depends on who you are I suppose and whether or not you are affected by it.

Yeah, I can only do it when I'm watching "light" programming, my favorite shows though, are the ones you have to pay attention to. But my wife, she can surf and watch just about anything, at least she claims she's paying attention. :)

... There exists cables that have VGA on one end and RCA component plugs on the other end to get this sort of video hookup going. They are pretty cheap on eBay (like $5 to $10 probably) and you could probably get one long enough to have it sitting beside you potentially. And a headphone extension cable would take care of the audio very easily. Its simply a 1 minute hookup job and you are set to enjoy your program.



Convinced me. Let's all rush out and buy cables so we can all watch fuzzy pictures on our HD tv.

Convinced me. Let's all rush out and buy cables so we can all watch fuzzy pictures on our HD tv.
No need to be a wiseass about it. And it's quite obvious you have never tried watching computer content on a television because if you had, you would understand that its actually just as good as any other content.

Wonder what KARK-DT's malfunction is this morning?

Wonder what KARK-DT's malfunction is this morning?

I dont know, but ever since they were down a few weeks back, I've had trouble with them dropping out from time to time and a weaker signal. Hope they get it fixed

I wonder if a piece of equipment didn't break and they are having to make do with backup, less than reliable stuff until the new piece comes in.

Wonder what KARK-DT's malfunction is this morning?

Power problem on the mountain this morning.

E

I would be interested to see if anyone else reading this forum has had the same experience, or has a similar setup with no problems.

Yep, I am. I get KWBF guide data for OTA KATV, and it is driving me crazy. I posted about it over at dbstalk and someone mentioned I might post about it over here. It started for me after my first VIP722 suffered a blown power supply, the replacement VIP722 no longer gets guide data correctly for the OTA katv station (007-01). The guide data for the channels fed via the dish local stations is fine (007-00, 9350). I have complained at least 4 times now, over the last few months. If I get a response at all it is usually something along the lines of "they (katv) are feeding us bad data". I have emailed KATV, hoping they might be able to address it. My hopes are not up very high though...

Did you ever get it resolved?

I attached screen shots of the bad guide data, showing 007-00 is correct, 9350 is correct, and 007-001 shows data from 9354 (KWBF).

Wow, you dug that one up from a few pages back. I had completely forgotten about that post.

You two seem to be the only ones that are brave enough to vocalize your problems. I wonder how many other people are having the same problems without reporting it. I think my statement over on the other forum is probably right. "I am beginning to think that the guide data for the OTA channels is a little mix of the receiver picking up the channel, determining what channel that is, then getting the guide data from Dish in the stream that comes down on the main guide data transponder. I don't think it is actually getting any of the data via OTA. That's why you get the right data and everything on your TV when the ears are plugged directly into it. "

Anyone else here that might want to get caught up to speed with my and other peoples theories about this can go to this page and see everything: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1816942

I think my ideas about the remapping of the channel and the receivers code being insufficient to handle such a unique situation is the cause of all this trouble for you guys.

Wow, you dug that one up from a few pages back. I had completely forgotten about that post.
This is quite a long thread, it took me a while to find it ;)

I think my ideas about the remapping of the channel and the receivers code being insufficient to handle such a unique situation is the cause of all this trouble for you guys.

My previous setup was comcast with a mythtv dvr, channel mapping was as simple as manually editing a table entry for the channel or using the UI. It would be nice if dish did in a similar fashion. If only I could find an engineer at dish who actually knew their products ;)

Yep, I am. I get KWBF guide data for OTA KATV, and it is driving me crazy. I posted about it over at dbstalk and someone mentioned I might post about it over here. It started for me after my first VIP722 suffered a blown power supply, the replacement VIP722 no longer gets guide data correctly for the OTA katv station (007-01). The guide data for the channels fed via the dish local stations is fine (007-00, 9350). I have complained at least 4 times now, over the last few months. If I get a response at all it is usually something along the lines of "they (katv) are feeding us bad data". I have emailed KATV, hoping they might be able to address it. My hopes are not up very high though...

Did you ever get it resolved?

I attached screen shots of the bad guide data, showing 007-00 is correct, 9350 is correct, and 007-001 shows data from 9354 (KWBF).

I have that same problem. But the worst one is even getting a signal out of "7-1", aka KWBF-DT. I usually go by the "7-0" grid and know what is playing over there.

It will likely not change until local DTV channel 22 is reactivated.

Yes I did a digital scan and picked up 7-1 and 11-1 and 16-1 and a couple further up. The basic question is anyone using a good set of "rabbit ears" that they've had success with in Little Rock?

Thanks for the other info.

I am using inside rabbit ears and reception is great. I live one hilltop over from Shinall though...

I have that same problem. But the worst one is even getting a signal out of "7-1", aka KWBF-DT. I usually go by the "7-0" grid and know what is playing over there.

That's all fine and great, as long as you don't ever want to schedule recordings. OTA is the only way to record the national networks in HD for Little Rock folk... The quality of the SD channels of the local stations carried by dish is total crap and not even worth watching. Well, there is always manual scheduling, yee haw.

OR you could dump your Dish Network setup and go with DirecTV. I know its going to cost a little bit up front, but at least you will get locals in HD (well, almost all them anyway. still holding out for CW at least to come online). Plus, with all the other HD they offer, you will be gaining a major increase in watchable TV without the over compression that Dish does to cram stations onto an already full satellite. :)



I just know I'm gonna catch hell for that one. LOL

OR you could dump your Dish Network setup and go with DirecTV. I know its going to cost a little bit up front, but at least you will get locals in HD (well, almost all them anyway. still holding out for CW at least to come online). Plus, with all the other HD they offer, you will be gaining a major increase in watchable TV without the over compression that Dish does to cram stations onto an already full satellite.
That is exactly what I am going to do if they don't fix this problem once the new KATV tower gets up and running, supposedly in Jan/Feb.

I went with dish because the equipment is much better. I hate to say it, but a Tivo does not compare to the dish HD DVR. The ability to plug in an external USB drive, 55 hours of HD storage 330 hours of SD, the ability to use the internet to download programming instead of a phone line, ability to share a modem or network connection between the receivers, etc... I can record 3 HD streams simultaneously while watching a recording, 1 OTA tuner, 2 dish tuners. As far as HD programming, when I signed up the differences between the dish and direct lineups were negligible, but they were both better than comcast. The HD quality is excellent as far as I can tell, much better than what I have seen out of comcast and directv. Actually, the dish dvr (vip722) is so much better than the directv one I would opt for it over the directv dvrs even if I had to pay for the dish and not the directv ones.

What pushed me over the edge was that the customer support for dish was supposed to be rated as the best. Gee, that has not turned out to be quite so true. And that issue will end up being what pushes me to drop them like a rock. Not much point to having great equipment if it doesn't work right.

Not to sound like a DirecTV lover and a hater of any other service, and to not sound like a "fanboy" or a suckup or anything, here are my responses to your post of things:

DirecTV doesn't use TiVo anymore.

You can plug in an external drive (eSATA, not slower USB) and get more space. Only caveat is that you lose use of the internal drive. You also do NOT have to pay $5 more a month just to be able to do that. DirecTV doesn't care if you use an external drive like Dish does.

DirecTV also does NOT use the phone line to download programming. It uses the internet for all VOD content. In fact, unlike Dish, you do NOT have to use a phone line at all for DirecTV. While Dish will charge you extra if you don't have a phone line, DirecTV doesn't give a crap unless you order PPV and that can be done MANY other ways. I don't have a phone line in my house and its never been an issue.

Oh, and speaking of ordering PPV or whatever, did you know that DirecTV has it now where you can schedule recordings on your DVR OVER THE INTERNET?! :) That is an awesome feature in my mind. I can set a recording from my mobile phone, from any web browser, etc and not have to worry about missing something if I wanted to record it.

You can't share content on one DVR with another DVR, YET. That is coming soon. It's called Multi-Room Viewing. They are also working on it where if you wanna watch something off the DVR while someone else is using it, you can go to a computer and watch it there without interrupting the other person.

You can record 3 HD streams simulaneously while watching a 4th on DirecTV too....one of the HD recordings being a VOD you are downloading while recording two other HD sources.

The differences between HD offerings may have been negligible, but that was only the case until they got DirecTV-11 up in the sky which they have now gotten. Even though Dish *tried* to get a sat up, it was commonly accepted that DirecTV would kick the crap out of Dish once that new sat got put up.

I have watched Dish, Comcast, AT&T U-Verse, and DirecTV HD content and DirecTV is the cleanest by far out of them all. The reason Dish is lower quality is because of the amount of compression they have to do to their signal just to be able to cram more HD content on it. It really degrades the quality of the image.

I am willing to bet you are basing all your ideas over the DirecTV DVR and its abilities on older, outdated equipment that is no longer offered. While its not perfect, it still does a pretty damn good job and doesn't look near as Fisher-Price'ish as Dish's does. I swear, the first time I saw a Dish DVR, I thought it was a kid's toy computer that you plug into the TV. :)

LOL, I have only heard the customer service claim about Dish in their commercials. Every single other source I have heard about it has ranked it as the lowest with the dumbest employees. Their employees at the call center are never phased by your threats to leave them for DirecTV. They honestly don't give a crap there about anything but bringin in the cash. DirecTV on the other hand will bend over backwards for you if you threaten to leave.

DirecTV doesn't use TiVo anymore.


But Tivo is back with DirecTV for 2009.

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPage.jsp?assetId=P4900010

But Tivo is back with DirecTV for 2009.

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPage.jsp?assetId=P4900010
Yeah, but its not going to be for a very long time still. Plus, there is this quote about it from that very same article:

"DIRECTV will continue to develop and offer its own portfolio of industry leading set top boxes as primary offerings to both new and existing customers. This new TiVo box will be offered as an alternative choice to those DIRECTV customers who would like to add TiVo to a full line up of DIRECTV services."

In any case, its not here now, and for those of us who have current boxes that they are sending out now, we aren't going to be forced to get them and will still even have the option of getting new boxes without it if we want. So, you see, its not a big deal. If you don't like TiVo, you won't have to get it.

DirecTV doesn't use TiVo anymore.
My Mom got direct earlier this year, and I believe it is a tivo... When did they change, I would like to see the specs on the current dvrs..

You can plug in an external drive (eSATA, not slower USB) and get more space. Only caveat is that you lose use of the internal drive. You also do NOT have to pay $5 more a month just to be able to do that. DirecTV doesn't care if you use an external drive like Dish does.
It is a one-time activation fee of $5, and you can shuttle the usb drive between any other dvr. I use it to do things like record every Law & Order ever filmed, then stick them on the 350GB usb drive for a rainy day ;)


DirecTV also does NOT use the phone line to download programming. It uses the internet for all VOD content. In fact, unlike Dish, you do NOT have to use a phone line at all for DirecTV. While Dish will charge you extra if you don't have a phone line, DirecTV doesn't give a crap unless you order PPV and that can be done MANY other ways. I don't have a phone line in my house and its never been an issue.
You can use a broadband connection in lieu of a phone line with dish also, although previously there were certain pay-per-view rentals that required a phone line. Those were all SD so I don't really care. Now there is somewhere in the neighborhood of 17 HD VOD/PPV movie channels that don't require it, so I am happy. Does direct let you record VOD/PPV movies?

Oh, and speaking of ordering PPV or whatever, did you know that DirecTV has it now where you can schedule recordings on your DVR OVER THE INTERNET?! :) That is an awesome feature in my mind. I can set a recording from my mobile phone, from any web browser, etc and not have to worry about missing something if I wanted to record it.

Now that is something I definitely miss about my mythtv, being able to schedule and/or watch content over the net. I got all excited the other day when I saw a new menu option about Web Activation, turns out they don't have it yet, supposedly it is on the way.


You can't share content on one DVR with another DVR, YET. That is coming soon. It's called Multi-Room Viewing. They are also working on it where if you wanna watch something off the DVR while someone else is using it, you can go to a computer and watch it there without interrupting the other person.

The dish dvrs, at least the ones I have, are dual tuner, meaning they run 2 tvs. You can record on one tuner and watch it on the other (that shares the dvr). Of course the external usb drive can be shuttled between them, but that is too much of a hassle.

The differences between HD offerings may have been negligible, but that was only the case until they got DirecTV-11 up in the sky which they have now gotten. Even though Dish *tried* to get a sat up, it was commonly accepted that DirecTV would kick the crap out of Dish once that new sat got put up.

I have watched Dish, Comcast, AT&T U-Verse, and DirecTV HD content and DirecTV is the cleanest by far out of them all. The reason Dish is lower quality is because of the amount of compression they have to do to their signal just to be able to cram more HD content on it. It really degrades the quality of the image.
Do you know of reports anywhere that document the actual quality of the two provider's HD offerings, bandwidth, compression, mpeg2/4, etc? I would be curious to know which one has the better picture, beyond anecdotes and such...

a pretty damn good job and doesn't look near as Fisher-Price'ish as Dish's does. I swear, the first time I saw a Dish DVR, I thought it was a kid's toy computer that you plug into the TV. :)
Heh heh, that is exactly what I thought of the directv ;)

Does direct have PIP?

LOL, I have only heard the customer service claim about Dish in their commercials. Every single other source I have heard about it has ranked it as the lowest with the dumbest employees.

I was Consumer Reports or JD Powers, can't recall which. The report was that dish and direct were both better than comcast, but rated about the same as one another. The dish was much better priced at the time.

Hopefully, if I end up staying with dish, competition between u-verse, direct, and dish will help get better HD programming. The two satellite providers are so close right now I don't see any point in switching between them based on HD alone... Particularly since I can't stand sports, who the hell needs 50 HD sports channels?

Directv is dropping the ball not carrying PBS (either national or AETN), doesn't have several national HD channels in their lineup, most notably Fox News..and their attempt at a "local on the 8's" for TWC is dismal, especially since its SD only.

PQ is great on 1080i channels. The 720p channels are noticably less sharp (and its not Directv, Fox FSN's look mucky even on their direct feed, grass is a blurry mess). Watching the TBS Major League baseball coverage after a whole summer of Fox FSN's is an eye opener. Even NBC 1080i sports is looking better since they upgraded their equipment for the olympics. I can actually watch a football game on NBc now.

As for the DVR, I've never used Dishes', but the HR22, with ~100 hrs of HD, and the fact any subscriber can participate in the beta test program, is a giant plus. I have a Tivo, but prefer the Directv DVR. Many more features, an example of my favorite being:
AALL NASCAR SPRINT CUP HDTV NNOT PRACTICE QUALIFYING CCHAN 200 699
Which hasn't failed to record a race for me all year. Try that with Tivo. Hide SD dups is priceless, and the DVR looks cool to boot :)

My cousin has Dish SD service in Milwaukee, and it looked ok to me on his 32" tube tv, but haven't seen Turbo HD demo, so don't know how it compares.

Directv better start adding some of the popular network channels soon though, or they will lose lots of business to Dish in markets where Dish offers HD locals.

Directv is dropping the ball not carrying PBS (either national or AETN), doesn't have several national HD channels in their lineup, most notably Fox News..and their attempt at a "local on the 8's" for TWC is dismal, especially since its SD only.
Dish doesn't have fox news in HD, and dish doesn't even carry Fox Business...

My cousin has Dish SD service in Milwaukee, and it looked ok to me on his 32" tube tv, but haven't seen Turbo HD demo, so don't know how it compares.

My main tv is a Sony Wega, which is a wide screen HD CRT (KD-30XS955). The hd picture is just stunning, that is all I can say. I have never watched directv hd on it, but there is no comparison to comcast hd. I rarely watch SD channels any more ;)

Noone has any PBS's in HD yet unfortunately. I hope that changes soon, but am not holding my breath. Who really cares about Fox News in HD, honestly? If I wanted a one sided spin on news events going around, I would watch that (or talk to a Republican, lol). Instead, I prefer news that is actually news and doesn't change a story around or only tell the parts of the story that they like. Fox News is notorious for this and I just cannot tolerate their type of "news". As far as the "local on the 8's" part, they are still working on the HD part of it. From what I understand, they are still beta testing the software to do it or something. We should have it fairly soon.

I agree on the FSN crap. It bugged me the few times I actually noticed it. I think part of it was their current facilities aren't sufficient enough to get enough bandwidth out for all the channels in HD. I read somewhere, can't remember where...hell, might have been here, that they are building a new facility in either Dallas or Houston that is supposed to be up and running by Spring Training. That will give them the umph to get ALL the FSN's in HD and, I would think, enough bandwidth to make them all look good.

I agree on the beta testing part of it. Its added so much fun and enjoyment for me that it makes the risk of losing all my crap worth while.

There are many people out there that bitch about missing recordings all the time. Or at least there used to be, haven't noticed much of it lately, so I don't know if its a problem still or not. And they have ALL the NASCAR stuff in HD? I would like to watch more NASCAR, but I always forget about it. If I knew it was in HD and found a good sched to go by, I would watch more.

And hiding SD duplicates has made things MUCH easier for me, although they could make the DVR switch the recording to the HD channel when it comes online instead of making you do it yourself. That kinda annoys me.

They are still adding stuff all the time, my friend. Right now, they are concentrating on local HD rollout for the markets that don't have it yet.

Do you guys watch PBS that much or do you just want another channel? I hardly ever watch that channel. I used to watch a show, I think it was called the Northern Wood Shop or something of that sort on Saturday afternoons, I liked it. I also like Antique Road Show

I enjoy Nova and Nova News Now sometimes, but my son really likes his Sesame Street and it just looks sooooooo much better in HD.

I enjoy Nova and Nova News Now sometimes, but my son really likes his Sesame Street and it just looks sooooooo much better in HD.

Yeah I know what you mean. I saw KAFT 13.1 from Winslow (fort smith side) shut down their subs one night and ran Full HD on 13.1, it was PBS like I'd never seen it before, very very nice. I suppose if I did not have Directv, I'd watch all of the locals more than I do now. PBS does have some good programming, I just dont watch most of it because of all the other available channels.

I enjoy Nova and Nova News Now sometimes, but my son really likes his Sesame Street and it just looks sooooooo much better in HD.

So many answers...
PBS.. I watch Nova, Nature, American Experience, Nova Science Now, Newshour, Antiques Roadshow, and a lot of their miniseries...Its my favorite network.

Fox News... I don't watch it since it looks like crap, but would watch some of the shows for entertainment value...Pinhead!

Wasn't trying to compare Dish to Directv, was just commenting on Directv in General.

I chose Directv because they were the first DBS system when I got it, and wanted to rid myself of the hassle of turning a 10' dish every time I wanted to change channels. Just stuck with them...havent been disappointed except by their clueless CSR's, which I found out how to bypass.

Considered Dish, but the up front activation fee, and the rip off fee for using your own external drive, and the fact they charge a dvr fee for each dvr where Directv only charges me once, was the deciding factor in renewing with Directv.

Nascar is 100% HD. Craftsman Truck series is on Speed usually Friday night...Nationwide is on ESPN 1 or 2 usually Saturday Afternoon or evening, and Sprint Cup is on ABC usually on Sunday afternoon. They vary in days/times and overlap sometimes. They also change networks throughout the year, started on TnT, then Fox, then Espn, and now ABC fo the Sprint Cup.

Yeah I know what you mean. I saw KAFT 13.1 from Winslow (fort smith side) shut down their subs one night and ran Full HD on 13.1, it was PBS like I'd never seen it before, very very nice. I suppose if I did not have Directv, I'd watch all of the locals more than I do now. PBS does have some good programming, I just dont watch most of it because of all the other available channels.
Oh, don't get me wrong, I am not going to stop everything just to watch those. I will watch them if all my other shows on the other channels I wanna watch usually. I often lose PBS programming cause I need space on my computer. (I record them off Comcast's QAM feed.)

Fox News... I don't watch it since it looks like crap, but would watch some of the shows for entertainment value...Pinhead!

LOL, guess you told me! :) I was saying part of that tongue in cheek, but in all fairness, they do tend to warp things. They are quite funny to watch and most of the women they have on there are damn good looking, so thats about the only reason I would love to have it in HD for.

I believe its CNN that Nancy Grace chick is on. She is a real hoot sometimes and would fit in perfectly on Fox News. I don't see how she hasn't been gobbled up by them with the way she treats some of the people she talks to and the way she just goes nuts. :)

The pinhead comment wasn't directed at your comments, It's Bill O'reileys favorite word on "The factor".

I watch a variety of news, CNN, networks, PBS, and BBC, and Al Jazeera.

For unbiased content, I prefer AlJazeera..they cover world stories the US networks just don't bother with, especially with all the Obama/McCain crap on now.

PBS is pretty fairly balanced. I just find it interesting to compare the various outlets when covering the same stories.

LOL, oh, okay, I wouldn't know not having ever watched him. I don't like much news anymore, especially local, because I get sick of hearing about the same old crap.....robberies, murders, arrests, the razorbacks, crap like that. Anyway, unless they put it in widescreen HD local news, I won't watch it except for maybe the weather, and thats a stretch.

I have complained at least 4 times now, over the last few months. If I get a response at all it is usually something along the lines of "they (katv) are feeding us bad data". I have emailed KATV, hoping they might be able to address it. My hopes are not up very high though...

And here is the response from DISH technical support, typical...


Thank you for your email. We apologize that it took so long to respond.
We've received an unexpected amount of e-mails this month. Our normal
response time is 24-48 hours. We would also like to apologize for any
inconvenience this issue has caused and understand the frustration of
this issue. Since ABC 007-1 is a multicast channel unfortunately we have
no control over the guide information on that channel since it is
multicast from ABC. You will need to contact your local ABC for further
information on this issue. We apologize again for any inconvenience this
issue has caused. You may also use the second link below for any further
information or concerns you may have.


They tell me, the customer who is paying them $5 monthly for the local channel package, to contact the station.

Anyone have any idea what multicast is and why it would be causing the problems? How can I check with ABC to see what guide data they are "multicasting"?

Multicasting is the ability for digital television stations to carry multiple subchannels on a particular frequency. Right now, KATV-DT is being broadcast as a subchannel of KWBF-DT. From your description of the problem it appears they are actually sending out info or 42.1. Contacting Channel 7 may not even be enough to take care of the problem, the source of the problem is probably KWBF.

And it won't even be fixed because channel 7 wants their 7.1 to be sent out with that virtual number. Since they want it sent out as 7.1, they won't let KWBF change it back to 42.3 which is what would fix the problem.

Sorry to bend (or break) the rules here, but I'm desperate. Newspaper can't run an ad in time.

I need to sell 2 center orchestra tickets to Les Miserables at The Rep for Sunday night at 7:30 pm. Asking face value. PM me if interested.

We now rejoin our regularly schedule forum topic already in progress...

Woah, way to go past the line, man! You are BANNED!!

Just kidding, I understand about the paper being real slow. Apparently, there is a new craigs list for little rock (or arkansas) according to my wife. you could try there too.

I want to give a little history of my past, present and future antenna installations from my location here in yell county, especially on the Dehli/Jerrold VU-937R VHF/UHF/FM.

I live in a very fringe area in Arkansas, in a valley between Danville mountain (east) and Mt. Magazine (west). The valley is 8 miles from foot of mountain to foot of mountain. I originally had the CM1160a with the 0110C on board cartridge pre-amp. It was probably the best overall Rooftop Ant I ever had for total broadband coverage. In 1995, I had it professionally installed on a 20 foot mast and guyed on my rooftop with a rotor system,total height was 35 feet. A wind storm in 2002 caused a guy wire to come lose and the boom was bent in the fall. It never worked as well afterwards. I replaced it with the CM3671 crossfire and CM7777 Pre-amp. Overall, it performed almost as well as the 1160. The crossfire seemed to work slightly better on channels such as 38, but for channel 42, the 1160 worked better, both were close in performance. I just ordered a Winegard 8200U to replace my crossfire which has some bent up elements from the recent hurricanes that surged up into Arkansas from the gulf of Mex. I'm hoping the 8200U works as well as the reviews I've read. Currently my 3671 is mounted about 18 feet high on a mast attached to the eave of my house. I plan on installing the new Winegard 8200U back in the original spot on the roof, 20 feet up and guyed, that seems to be the best overall reception spot that I've had. The current 18ft height is a nice spot too, but 38 and 42 were always much stronger when the 1160 was 20ft off the roof. The tower is out for me now, its just too expensive and I know I can get really strong reception at 35 feet.

Now, onto the "Delhi ( Jerrold ) VU-937SR UHF-VHF-FM TV ANTENNA Deepest Fringe TV antenna". I ordered one of these delhi antennas from stark electronic after the 1160a collapse in 2002 before I wound up getting the CM3671 crossfire to permanently replace the 1160a. However, the plan was originally for the VU937R with UHF extension to replace the 1160a, it did not work out. I remember the guy from Stark Electronics telling me he wasn't sure the dehli would work any better in my area and said he really doubted it would. I had to try it anyway because it was and is the largest consumer broadband antenna available and I do live in a fringe area. The VU937R with extended UHF was huge, like 19 feet long. With some help, I pushed it up 30 feet off my rooftop(15ft) using a CM 30ft telescoping pole on the peak of the house for a total of 45 feet, it was guyed with 3 levels of wire on 3 sides. It was pre-amped and on a rotor, it was heavy. I mounted it in the same location as the 1160a but with a different pole. To my surprise the VU937SR was very "weak" compared to the 1160a and since then I'd say its weak compared to the other Antennas I've had. I see a lot of reference to this antenna and I just wondered what other folks results were in "deep fringe areas"? One of my biggest gripes was that it performed horrible on the low Vhf 2-6 channels. It would not pick up Channel 2 (AETN PBS) at all. Channel 4 (KARK NBC) came in but in black and white, it would not relay the color, I was pretty mad after all of that work and such sorry results, but I should have taken Stark Electronics advice when they couldnt give it a full vote of confidence in my area. Later on, I cut the antenna in half and created what was basically the same as the XG91 UHF Antenna, it didnt work worth crap here either. I dont know if antennas are tuned for a certain area according to available channels or not ,but the VU937SR is deffintely not for use in my area of Arkansas. I was truly disappointed and can tell you that its the worst long range antenna I've ever owned. It was also not built as strong as the CM antennas I've owned, it actually had a sway in it after it was mounted, it really needed supporting arms to keep it from bending. Another really bad antenna for UHF is the Antennas Direct 8-bay, it wont pick anything up even amped up ,its sorry. However, the Cm4228 8bay does not work much better in my area either, it seems yagi style UHF's work better in my area. I dont know if this will help anyone here or not, its just my personal experience and information, hopefully it helps someone:)

ARKYMAN: Why don't you just get another 1160a Quantum? I've seen new ones still for sale on Ebay (Around $250). Ill tell ya, Channel Master blew it when they dropped that line. I only have the 1162 which is the same UHF section as yours, but only a "fringe" VHF section. my Televes DAT75 only beats it by a little bit...

When I put mine up, I put silicon on every rivet, and every joint. Its been up since 2000, and only problem was a tree branch that fell on it during a stom and bent the back left side reflector. I bent it back carefully, and note no reduction in signal. The Quantums dual boom is actually the feedline, so it doesn't need those corrosion prone cross crossed wires interconnecting all the elements.

If you still have the quantum, and can get a rivet gun, or stainess screws, you should be able to remove all the elements from the bent boom, and remount them on a new pair of booms, if you can get two the exact same size.

In any case, I'd be trying to find be another Quantum somehow :)

Edit: several Quantums for sale at http://www.ultrasatellite.com

Does anyone know how Nevada County in SW Arkansas got DirecTV to offer them "Neighboring Local Channels" from LR?

In case you don't know what "Neighboring Local Channels" are, go to this site (http://directv.com/DTVAPP/packProg/localChannels.jsp?assetId=900018) at DirecTV and enter Nevada County ZIP Code 71828. They are in the Shreveport DMA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_market), and get both Shreveport and LR locals on D*.

Our state representative in Carroll County is trying to find out how to go about getting NWA locals added for Carroll County satellite viewers, which is stuck in the Springfield, MO DMA.

..... it seems yagi style UHF's work better in my area.
When trying to choose between a XG91 and a CM4228 (8-bay panel) I went with the XG91 (yagi UHF). My reasoning was that if you have hot and cold spots in the signal transmission field (inconsistent), like what I (and apparently you) have, elements in the higher field strength hot spots would broadcast the signal back out thru elements in cold spots. Since a yagi funnels its signal back thru all the directors and they aren't actually inter-connected elements (like in an 8-bay panel) I had thought it should perform better. The XG91 did offer some improvement over the 16 director yagi on my large combo antenna. It wasn't an earth shattering improvement but the 10% extra quality was enough to make the unreliable channel 42 (physical 44) an all-the-time channel instead of a hit or miss channel.

In short, I think your assessment is correct.

dmatch

Someone was asking about tilt earlier, and I found the answer. The antenna will perform 5 to 10% better if its pointed at the visible horizon. Since I'm on a 450' hill, hit have 500-550 foot ridges all around me at about a mile, my tilt is set at 5 degrees. I sighted the boom towards the horizon (i.e. the tree line on the ridge), and it works perfectly. Of course, if you have different horizon levels, you have to average or use a tilter motor.

Also found out the XG91 and DAT75 were almost identical for real gain, and were both better on ch 30 and up, where the 4228 was better on ch 30 and lower. We should see antennas (yagis) being a little higher gain after 2009, as the manufacturers will only have to optimize for 14-51 instead of 14-69. Yagi directors are cut for the highest channel, driven element for the lowest channel, and reflector for the lowest channel plus 5%. A corner reflector widens the bandwidth over a single reflector element slightly increasing gain.

The quantum uses a hybrid system, it has diamond shaped directors, then a log periodic set of driven elements, and uses the VHF ch 13 elements as a reflector for the UHF section.

Does anyone know how Nevada County in SW Arkansas got DirecTV to offer them "Neighboring Local Channels" from LR?

In case you don't know what "Neighboring Local Channels" are, go to this site (http://directv.com/DTVAPP/packProg/localChannels.jsp?assetId=900018) at DirecTV and enter Nevada County ZIP Code 71828. They are in the Shreveport DMA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_market), and get both Shreveport and LR locals on D*.

Our state representative in Carroll County is trying to find out how to go about getting NWA locals added for Carroll County satellite viewers, which is stuck in the Springfield, MO DMA.


Nevada County is the home of Mike Ross (US House, 4th Dist AR) and that may have played a part. He and some of his fellow Prescott/rural Nevada County constituents are upset that Nevada County was switched recently to the Shreveport DMA from Little Rock.

If D* offered Nevada County customeers SHV and LR HD locals....that could be a future "boomtown" :D

Nevada County is the home of Mike Ross (US House, 4th Dist AR) and that may have played a part. He and some of his fellow Prescott/rural Nevada County constituents are upset that Nevada County was switched recently to the Shreveport DMA from Little Rock...Haley, thanks for the info.

Nevada County is the home of Mike Ross (US House, 4th Dist AR) and that may have played a part. He and some of his fellow Prescott/rural Nevada County constituents are upset that Nevada County was switched recently to the Shreveport DMA from Little Rock.

If D* offered Nevada County customeers SHV and LR HD locals....that could be a future "boomtown" :D

Sam: Why don't you have your representative contact Mike Ross, and work for repealing the whole damn "govt tells you what stations to watch" law...That would solve the problem for those of us without a tv watching representative in our district.

The real motivation though behind the outrage in Nevada county were these viewers losing Little Rock news and (drum roll please.....) KATV Razorback games. However the Raycom broadcast football and basketball games are available via KMSS (SHV Fox) and not KTBS (SHV ABC).

There was also a extended dustup between E* and KTBS this past year over retransmission consent--KTBS was gone from E* for several months starting January 1. (side note: Because of that, guide data would not show up for KTBS-DT (3-1) on my E* receiver during the dispute.) Both parties have come to an agreement. This did not affect D* subs in the SHV market.

Sam: Why don't you have your representative contact Mike Ross, and work for repealing the whole damn "govt tells you what stations to watch" law...That would solve the problem for those of us without a tv watching representative in our district.Dave, the laws won't change. Too many eff'n NAB lobbyists.

I totally agree with the idea, though. If I can buy an out of market newspaper and read the same AP stories a local paper carries, I should be able to subscribe to and watch network programs from TV stations in other markets.

And if a local station fails because of it (not likely), so be it.

Boy, LPGA golf on 4-1 looks like CRAP today. I mean, Raycom's Razorback game looks better, and its on the sh**ty 42-3 share. What the hell is up with 4?

I'm finding this interesting. The Raycom Razorback feed on AMC16 has three camera angles that show the overall field of play. When on those cameras, there is a wavy vertical herringbone pattern moving on the screen. KATVs encoder cannot keep up with the herringbones rapid shimmering, and the result is the grass looks like its crawling around under the players. Its not KATV's fault tho. Probably a bad mixer at the Razorback stadium. Close ups, and tight shots from the mobile cameras are sharp. Now, after the ccommercial break, the herringbone on the feed is gone, but the picture jumps like their 3:2 pulldown is on.... Weird.

As for golf, they look to be using PAL 520i widescreen cameras in whatever country they are in, as noted by the 15:9 picture ratio when I set the monitor on dot to dot mode, so I'd say the golf isn't really in HD, just upconverted PAL widescreen.

The golf was from California today. I remember looking at the info for it and it said something California. So, I don't think they would have been using PAL equipment. :)


EDIT: It was Half Moon Bay, California

Well, in that case, they used 480i cams, cuz it wasn't HD...Wasnt even a full 16:9...

ARKYMAN: Why don't you just get another 1160a Quantum? I've seen new ones still for sale on Ebay (Around $250). Ill tell ya, Channel Master blew it when they dropped that line. I only have the 1162 which is the same UHF section as yours, but only a "fringe" VHF section. my Televes DAT75 only beats it by a little bit...

When I put mine up, I put silicon on every rivet, and every joint. Its been up since 2000, and only problem was a tree branch that fell on it during a stom and bent the back left side reflector. I bent it back carefully, and note no reduction in signal. The Quantums dual boom is actually the feedline, so it doesn't need those corrosion prone cross crossed wires interconnecting all the elements.

If you still have the quantum, and can get a rivet gun, or stainess screws, you should be able to remove all the elements from the bent boom, and remount them on a new pair of booms, if you can get two the exact same size.

In any case, I'd be trying to find be another Quantum somehow :)

Edit: several Quantums for sale at http://www.ultrasatellite.com

Thanks for the info Dave, I did not know quantums were still available. If the 8200U doesnt work out, I'll check into a new Quantum, I might should go ahead and buy one anyway, someday they wont be available at all. In 1995, I didnt know just a whole lot about antennas that were available. I told my installer I wanted the biggest baddest antenna on the market, he brought me the 1160a Quantum. It was twice as big as any antenna I'd ever owned and was built rock solid. I was also very impressed with the on board cartridge amp. I have two trees, one on each side of my house, both have grown way up in the past 13 years. In 1995 when I had the 1160a 20ft off the roof , the antenna was about was about 5-10ft. taller than these two trees. One is a huge elm and the other is a huge cottonwood. They now soar a lot higher than the original height of my quantum antenna at 35ft. Those trees need to be topped or cut about halfway down, for one thing they are eventually gonna split or be uprooted in a wind storm, plus, it would probably help my reception tremdously in the process. Kill two birds with one stone.

I have my antennas mounted in the middle of the woods :) Would need to go up 60' to clear em. I'm gonna test signal readings on KTWN-LP when the leaves drop and see just how much difference they really make.

Yea, If I lived where you did, I'd definantly be snagging up another 1160a... here in Lr, its pointless, as there are a total of ZERO VHF stations receivable on a consistent basis (other than the local ones), so I just don't need the VHF gain stronger than what the 1162 gives me, and the DAT75 is a tad better on UHF...So I think I'm doing about the best I can without stacking and tall towers :)
I picked up a second rotor on sale for $19.95 (closeout) and have it stored. Gonna mount the Dat75 and Quantum on separate rotors, and use an A/B switch... Use Quantum for the DVR, and the Dat75 for DX'ing on the Pansat since I can beam tilt that one.
Not in any hurry til all these pesky analogs shut down, and the DT's crank it up a notch.
Had to spend $300 on my cat in the past week, and still haven't found out what's wrong with her...dont know if I'm gonna be able to save her or not. None of thr vets can figure out what's causing her throat to keep getting infected and her lungs to fill with fluid...so...my checks are going to her at the moment.

Wish I could find a used Rohn tower in decent shape for sale around here. I can't afford the new ones with the cost of shipping these days.

I have my antennas mounted in the middle of the woods :) Would need to go up 60' to clear em. I'm gonna test signal readings on KTWN-LP when the leaves drop and see just how much difference they really make.

Yea, If I lived where you did, I'd definantly be snagging up another 1160a... here in Lr, its pointless, as there are a total of ZERO VHF stations receivable on a consistent basis (other than the local ones), so I just don't need the VHF gain stronger than what the 1162 gives me, and the DAT75 is a tad better on UHF...So I think I'm doing about the best I can without stacking and tall towers :)
I picked up a second rotor on sale for $19.95 (closeout) and have it stored. Gonna mount the Dat75 and Quantum on separate rotors, and use an A/B switch... Use Quantum for the DVR, and the Dat75 for DX'ing on the Pansat since I can beam tilt that one.
Not in any hurry til all these pesky analogs shut down, and the DT's crank it up a notch.
Had to spend $300 on my cat in the past week, and still haven't found out what's wrong with her...dont know if I'm gonna be able to save her or not. None of thr vets can figure out what's causing her throat to keep getting infected and her lungs to fill with fluid...so...my checks are going to her at the moment.

Wish I could find a used Rohn tower in decent shape for sale around here. I can't afford the new ones with the cost of shipping these days.

I've thought about possibly ordering another Winegard 8200 and stacking them vertically or possibly getting another 1160a and stacking it with my older one that still works pretty good. Only thing is, with the hot booms and on board amps, could you even join two quantums? I know you are not suppose to split between the amp and power supply, ultimately if you joined two quantums with the on board amps, thats exactly what you would do. Any way around that? As for the Winegard 8200U, I'm gonna use it with the CM7777 amp that I'm currently using with my 3671 crossfire. I'll say this for the Quantum 1160a. When everything was still analog, I could pick up 4,7,11 and 16 clear as a bell, just as clear as my Cband dish, 38 had just a bit of snow in the picture and 42 believe it or not came in almost as clear as channel 4 and the other channels, it was unbelievable, I'd never seen such performance from an antenna. The Crossfire 3671 was mounted in the same location on the roof for about 3 years, although it did a nice job, it never brought those channels in as clear as the quantum. Ch.38 on uhf was slightly better with the 3671, but ch.42 was nowhere near as good as it was on the quantum 1160a.

Can't stack quantums very easily, as the stacking distance is supposed to be 1 wavelength apart...which means you would have to pick which band you wanted to stack them for, and the other two bands would be all out of phase.

If you did experiment with two quantums, you would use a coupler/splitter between the two identical length feedlines, and the the output of that combiner into your amp antenna in jack. You would not be able to use the cartridge amps, and would have to use two identical baluns, one in each quantum. It would be better to just stack two 10 element 7-13 log periodics for VHF...at 72" vertical spacing.

You could stack the two identical UHF yagi's tho. I believe the vertical stacking distance is about 24" or two feet.

In any case, the amp goes between the combiner and the downlead. At 90% efficiency on the combiner, it would yeild about a 2.8 db gain, and narrow your beamwidth considerably.

For high vhf, several cable companies actually use 4 antennas, in a square stack, with 300 ohm balanced feeders, configured so as to get 0 combined loss at the 300 ohm central feedpoint, for 6 db gain over a single yagi.

Lots of hardware for that kind of setup. Two UHF'ers should be pretty simple to set up tho.

Search for the hdtvprimer and check out their tech documents on antenna stacking/combining, and other related into. Its great reading.

I know USDTV had a run out west in like 3 states for a couple of years. For those who dont know, local channels offered cable channels on their "subs" such as ESPN, ESPN2, TBS, TNT and on and on. I copied this because I was writing alot of it wrong, this is from wikpedia.

The company used extra bandwidth on digital television stations to send channels to subscribers who had a special set-top box provided by the company. It had an ATSC tuner that receives and decodes regular digital TV stations, as well as being able to decode more highly-compressed WMV9 and later MPEG-4 AVC. Customers with earlier WMV9 boxes were expected to be sent an upgrade in the form of a USB device, which handles the new codec. USDTV channels were broadcast by multiple stations in each area, but through the use of virtual channels. They all appeared as subchannels of 99.x, even on regular sets that could not decode them. This was also true in the EPG.

Do guys think this could be the future in subscription tv, maybe once D-day rolls around the locals start to consider their options by carrying subscription or cable like channels? Has anyone heard of this happening? For me, I pay around $73 a month with directv. I've tried to reduce my package from choice but nothing below it offers ESPN or ESPN2 so I'm stuck paying at least $53/mo for the package. They offer one package for either 19.99 or 29.99 but it does not have ESPN and ESPN 2. If the locals would offer the basic cable channels on their subs for lets say $20-$30/mo. I'd bite on it myself. We need an alternative to cable and small dish. With the swap from analog to digital, local tv stations will now have the ability to offer up packages like this if they choose to do so. I'd like to get all the good basic channels and pay a lower price. The way it is now, with cable or small dish, most folks are looking at $50+ per month. However there is one major drawback, this also is from wikpedia on the downside of locals carrying such a setup

Because it uses full-power broadcast stations, this also in turn limits the bitrate of free "extra" channels the public can receive from those stations. Broadcasters in the US are only required to carry one SDTV channel. This has led to speculation that stations would rent out the bandwidth of the additional five multiplex channels to pay TV services such as USDTV, instead of broadcasting in HDTV. Should this become commonplace practice among broadcasters, not only would HDTV be precluded, picture quality in SDTV can suffer noticeably due to excessive data compression, which leaves visible compression artifacts.

$50/mo? I wish. Mine is $115/mo. Scrambled subscription tv OTA has been tried by many stations. It sucks to much bandwidth...Can you imagine watching ESPN on a macroblock ridden subchannel? Won't happen, no one would pay for it.

Just an FYI, this is solar outage week. Sun travelling the satellite arc. Good time to find sites for LOS and check on those pesky trees. For Little Rock:
Due South at 12:57p
99 sat at 1:27p
103 sat at 1:46p
123 sat at 3:16p
127 sat at 3:34p

For other dates/locations:
www.intelsat.com/resources/satellitedata-pas/sun_calc.asp

$50/mo? I wish. Mine is $115/mo. Scrambled subscription tv OTA has been tried by many stations. It sucks to much bandwidth...Can you imagine watching ESPN on a macroblock ridden subchannel? Won't happen, no one would pay for it.

Just an FYI, this is solar outage week. Sun travelling the satellite arc. Good time to find sites for LOS and check on those pesky trees. For Little Rock:
Due South at 12:57p
99 sat at 1:27p
103 sat at 1:46p
123 sat at 3:16p
127 sat at 3:34p

For other dates/locations:
www.intelsat.com/resources/satellitedata-pas/sun_calc.asp


I read some reviews on the net where folks said it had HDMI hookup and the PQ was very good, I'd have to see it first to make up my mind. To me personally, what we all pay these days for tv is pretty darn high. I remember when our cable bill was $9/month in the 1980's. Sure, there is gonna be inflation along the way, at the time you could buy a new truck for about $15,000 and now they are about $30,000, thats doubled. That means our cable or dish bills should be in the $20 range per month:)

Have to remember, They had 30 channels back then, all analog. Now they have 200 channels, digital or fiber, HD... Plus, they didn't have to pay local affiliates to carry their signal, which they do now. Trucks are basically the same...

Have to remember, They had 30 channels back then, all analog. Now they have 200 channels, digital or fiber, HD... Plus, they didn't have to pay local affiliates to carry their signal, which they do now. Trucks are basically the same...

The problem is cable and small dish stick the customer with a bunch of channels they may never watch, the packages are not customizable, at least within practical reason. You can go ala carte, but its expensive. I've been thinking about seriously going back with our crappy cable company who still only runs analog in our area, suddenlink is the provider. I spoke with them a while back and they said my area should be changed over to digital by the end of 2008. If so, that would be alot better PQ than their analog channels. The thing is, with cable its $50/mo and you can hookup all the tvs in the house, that plus the lower price is a big plus in the cable companies corner. IF the payscale equaled the bills these days, I would not worry about it so much, but I have 4 kids (1 in college) and we are gonna have to start cutting back on things.

Yea, I understand that. I checked Comcast out, but by the time I paid the cabe bill, and bought two HD Tivo's,and Comcast charged me for 4 cablecards, the bill would have been more than Directv, with 1/2 the channels, no sports pak, no Speed HD... Just wasn't a good deal. Pay more for less.

What do you have now? Maybe a big dish with alacarte 4DTV subscrption for the ESPN's would be cheaper for you...

Yea, I understand that. I checked Comcast out, but by the time I paid the cabe bill, and bought two HD Tivo's,and Comcast charged me for 4 cablecards, the bill would have been more than Directv, with 1/2 the channels, no sports pak, no Speed HD... Just wasn't a good deal. Pay more for less.

What do you have now? Maybe a big dish with alacarte 4DTV subscrption for the ESPN's would be cheaper for you...

Right now I have my OTA system and Directv Choice with HD access, living room HD, 1 bedroom standard receiver. All adds up to $73/month. I do still have my Cband dish and my 4dtv receiver, but my 4dtv never picked up that great here, much more of a pain than Cband Analog. If I could still get Cband analog past Feb 2009 for a descent price, thats the way I'd go. Right now I'm considering the Suddenlink Analog package here, it offers all the channels most folks care about and its price locked at $39.95/month for 12 months. They also offer the cable/internet combo for $60/mo. There net runs about 3x's faster than my DSL connection. Currently I pay $39/mo. for 256/128 DSL and $73 for Directv, thats $112 - $60 = $52/mo. savings. I used to neve look at things like this but these days who isnt looking to cut corners or get rid of bills all together. My last option is to drop it all and just go with my OTA, it would be an adjustment but after a while, we'd get used to it. BTW, the last Sub I had on my Cband 4dtv was no better deal than the subs on the small dishes, one of the main reasons I sadly put my Cband system to rest:(

Let's do it this way, what channels do you watch/need? List them out...ones you can't live without. Also, what type C band dish do you have? Mesh/fiberglass/steel? Actuator still working? Good LOS on the whole arc?

[QUOTE=Davenlr;14805318]Yea, I understand that. I checked Comcast out, but by the time I paid the cabe bill, and bought two HD Tivo's,and Comcast charged me for 4 cablecards, the bill would have been more than Directv, with 1/2 the channels, no sports pak, no Speed HD... Just wasn't a good deal. Pay more for less.
QUOTE]


Davenlr, just to give a little side note to the conversation, and I know this won't make you rush out and reconsider your whole set up, but Comcast added Speed HD on Oct. 1st. :) (Along with Fox News and FX.)

Let's do it this way, what channels do you watch/need? List them out...ones you can't live without. Also, what type C band dish do you have? Mesh/fiberglass/steel? Actuator still working? Good LOS on the whole arc?

ESPN, ESPN2, TNT, TBS, Discovery, TLC, N.Geographic, Science some of the cartoon channels for the kids

Cband dish is black Mesh 10ft. Actuator still works. LOS is not good on G5 and west, not good for digitals as most are located on C3,G1, G5 and then just east on G9. The Elm tree I was talking about growing up to tall and too wide in my CM1160a, the same Elm has limbs hanging over the dish on the west side far enough to cause signal problems at G5, I think that was alot of my problem last year when I still had it all hooked up. It eventually got to where anything G5 or lower would not come in. Analogs even became hard to pick up. This tree was a non factor in 1995 when I had my Cband system installed, its a big factor now. I've got the phone number of a local tree trimmer, I've got to give him a call. I'd do it myself but my chainsaw is old and worn out, it wont run half of the time. Here is a list of channels Suddenlink currently offers analog here.

2 KETS-PBS 2 Little Rock, AR
3 Community Channel
4 KARK-NBC 4 Little Rock, AR
5 KFSM-CBS 5 Fort Smith, AR
6 KLRT-FOX 16 Little Rock, AR
7 KATV-ABC 7 Little Rock, AR
8 KASN-CW 38 Pine Bluff, AR
9 Trinity Broadcasting Network
10 C-SPAN
11 KTHV-CBS 11 Little Rock, AR
12 KVTN-IND 25 Pine Bluff, AR
13 KKAP-ETV 36 Little Rock, AR
14 CNN
15 Home Shopping Network
16 CNBC
18 CNN Headline News
19 ABC Family
22 Disney
23 The Weather Channel
24 TBS Superstation
25 USA
26 ESPN
27 ESPN 2
28 Lifetime Television
29 Discovery Channel
30 TNT
31 Arts & Entertainment
32 Spike TV
33 Home & Garden Television
34 American Movie Classic
35 Outdoor Channel
36 Great American Country
37 Univision
38 Nickelodeon
39 Animal Planet
95 MSNBC
96 National Geographic
97 KKYK RTN 20 Little Rock, AR
98 KWBF-MNT 42 Little Rock, AR
99 MTV

All those channels you listed except Nlt Geographic are available on Dish Networks $32.99 plan... Don't know what Dish charges for dvr's. If you do decide to switch to cable, Hollar at me. I know someone with a stock Phillips TIVO DVR with Lifetime subscription they aren't using and would probably sell....Would work great with Analog cable.

So, you would then just have HD from OTA?

Also check out the $29.95 TurboHD package on dishnetwork.com, it looked like it had almost all the channels you were wanting.

All those channels you listed except Nlt Geographic are available on Dish Networks $32.99 plan... Don't know what Dish charges for dvr's. If you do decide to switch to cable, Hollar at me. I know someone with a stock Phillips TIVO DVR with Lifetime subscription they aren't using and would probably sell....Would work great with Analog cable.

So, you would then just have HD from OTA?

Also check out the $29.95 TurboHD package on dishnetwork.com, it looked like it had almost all the channels you were wanting.

Alright Dave, I sure appreciate all your help:) I used to be with Dish, I know I can get the cheaper packages with them but I just really didnt want to go thru all the swithching back, besides, I think I'd rather pay what I am now and stay with Directv over Dish even at $33, they screwed me over pretty badly the first time around with them, I said I wouldnt ever go back but you know how that goes sometimes. Yes, I guess the only HD I'd have would be from the OTA, except for ESPN and ESPN2, its what we watch the most anyway. I'll have to think it over real hard, except for the price, I've been extremely happy with Directv.

Yea, I like Directv too, although it seems like a shabby business practive to advertise a $29.9f HD package, then find out it doesn't have any of the popular channels in it, there is a $10 additional monthly fee if you want HD, and another $5 charge if you want a DVR. Even for their cheapest package, its really $45. Dish has the $99 activation fee.... They are all rip offs in my book. I'd be with Dish's TurboHD or Comcast now, if it wasn't for Sports...Gotta hand it to Directv there...only place to get my sports.

Found out today, the trunk of an oak tree in my yard is blocking 1/4 of my dish for 119 :) Still getting high 90's tho.

The solar outage dropped my KA signals from low 90's to upper 60's, but didn't drop out.

Comcast added Speed HD on Oct. 1st. :) (Along with Fox News and FX.)

SpeedHD and Fox News HD? Well, If I'd have known that two weeks ago, I'd have switched... No Speed HD was the killer for me. I love Nascar. Now, since I got a free DVR, I'm locked into another 2 yr commitment.

I'm finding this interesting. The Raycom Razorback feed on AMC16 has three camera angles that show the overall field of play. When on those cameras, there is a wavy vertical herringbone pattern moving on the screen. KATVs encoder cannot keep up with the herringbones rapid shimmering, and the result is the grass looks like its crawling around under the players. Its not KATV's fault tho. Probably a bad mixer at the Razorback stadium. Close ups, and tight shots from the mobile cameras are sharp. Now, after the ccommercial break, the herringbone on the feed is gone, but the picture jumps like their 3:2 pulldown is on.... Weird.

As for golf, they look to be using PAL 520i widescreen cameras in whatever country they are in, as noted by the 15:9 picture ratio when I set the monitor on dot to dot mode, so I'd say the golf isn't really in HD, just upconverted PAL widescreen.

defiantly not katv's fault, i watched it on KHBS 40.1(21.1) and noticed the same thing. it was strange.

defiantly not katv's fault, i watched it on KHBS 40.1(21.1) and noticed the same thing. it was strange.

I also watched the game on 40.1 yesterday. 40.1 is usually super clear on their HD football games, but it looked like crap yesterday

I'm sure it was Raycom.

BTW Arkyman, you can get all 5 networks from Puerto Rico, CW feed, Bunches of Fox and MnTV, ABC and NBC from Wyoming., Nasa, several PBS, and lots more, with your 10' dish...all you need is a $99 FortecMercury2 receiver, and perhaps, a disq to linear actuator converter box to turn it...Its all free SD. Nat Geo, Fox News, Bio also on free but don't know how long. HD receivers also available for around $400. Might be an option to supplement cable if you switch.

I'm sure it was Raycom.

BTW Arkyman, you can get all 5 networks from Puerto Rico, CW feed, Bunches of Fox and MnTV, ABC and NBC from Wyoming., Nasa, several PBS, and lots more, with your 10' dish...all you need is a $99 FortecMercury2 receiver, and perhaps, a disq to linear actuator converter box to turn it...Its all free SD. Nat Geo, Fox News, Bio also on free but don't know how long. HD receivers also available for around $400. Might be an option to supplement cable if you switch.

I forgot that C-band no longer has ESPN, I guess that idea is out now

Most of the live sports ESPN carries is tho :)

Most of the live sports ESPN carries is tho :)

I'm really considering Dish Turbo. I can get the bronze package for $24.99/mo plus $5 for the HD DVR dual tuner. It would be around $32/mo with tax, I might could live with that:) I also would rather pay the $99 and not have the 24/mo committment. I'm also considering Arkwest Communications IPTV again. The only thing I dont like about it is no HD boxes. Although the standard boxes look clearer than any other standard hookup I've ever seen, the IPTV setups cant handle fast motion sports too well like boxing and football. Thats the thing that keeps me from going with them, all the marco blocking in fast scenes. I wish they'd invest in some HD DVR type boxes

If paying the $99 up front relieves you from the 2 yr commitment, I would probably go with TurboHD myself.

On another note, since it was raining buckets, my soon to go bye bye NBC HD feed went out, and my backup feed for Hero's (which I have archived every episode of since the very first one) was unwatchable because of the large gawdy weather map and crawls, and text covering a large portion of the screen. I refuse to watch it. Steveken, tell me what software I need and where I need to look to find it on the net. Its been years since I used any peer to peer stuff.

If paying the $99 up front relieves you from the 2 yr commitment, I would probably go with TurboHD myself.

On another note, since it was raining buckets, my soon to go bye bye NBC HD feed went out, and my backup feed for Hero's (which I have archived every episode of since the very first one) was unwatchable because of the large gawdy weather map and crawls, and text covering a large portion of the screen. I refuse to watch it. Steveken, tell me what software I need and where I need to look to find it on the net. Its been years since I used any peer to peer stuff.
Well, I don't consider torrents peer2peer basically because you don't have the normal *******s that will put virus's in the files like you would get on any of those apps....I forget their names now its been so long since I used them. Torrents are at least secure in that one person can't make it where its bad or anything because there are going to be other people seeding it out to you and they all have to match, so it would have to be a combined screw everyone method for it to work.

Anyway, to your question...... Are you on a regular windows machine now? Or, better yet, a Mac? I say better yet because if you are on a Mac, there is a program you can get for it that automatically watches for tv shows and such to go up and then downloads the torrent file to your computer automatically. There are even some torrent apps that will start the download automatically when they see the new files. Do you have a good Internet connection (its going to take hours if you are on a slow one)?

I ask those questions because they are kind of a qualifier to whether you want to do it or not. I know you were on that PDA for the longest and just wasn't sure if you got the desktop problem fixed.

Has anyone noticed on DirecTV 7 (the new HD feed of it) that the audio and video are horrendously off??? At times it looks like its coming off a severely underpowered computer where the video will lag, then speed up a little only to lag again. It makes the video a good 1 to 2 seconds behind the audio. I wonder what the deal is with that. Aren't they supposedly picking it up off the OTA feed just like we are???

Add to the (long line of) katv complaints here:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=138584&page=3
Supposedly, these are read by someone at DirecTV. Whether they will (or can) do anything about it is another story.

You can't get ABC HD blood out of an Equity multicast turnip.

Ok, something is bad wrong here and I cant figure it out. I had my CM3671 with CM7777 pre-amp mounted 18 feet. I got these LR stations, recorded these numbers this morning BEFORE putting up my new Winegard 8200U.

4.1
7.1
11.1
11.2
16.1
38.1
38.2
40.1 (fort Smith KHBS)
40.2
42.1
42.2

Now, the 8200 will only pick up channel 11.1 and 11.2 at 78% which is about normal. 4 only shows 42%. Hey, I just remembered the phasing wires from the UHF side was touching the boom on both sides. That is probably a major cause, I'm gonna go fix that right now. But why would 11.1 come in as strong as ever yet the other channels will not:confused: None of the UHF channels are doing anything, not even much on analog. I hope I installed the balun to phase line chip correctly. Instructions with the 8200 were vague on everything, I finally figured most of it out. Help?

Arkyman, check your PMs.

It was the phase wires from the UHF end of the antenna, they were touching the boom. When I put it together, I had to bend the phase wires in order to insert them into the terminal housing. Then I had to install the balun chipboard that connects to the VHF and UHF terminals. I forgot to bend the phase wires from the UHF end so that they would not touch the boom. It was dumb on my part but you know how you get busy and just forget things from time to time. I was in panic mode at first and thought I had wasted my money. So far, I have seen about equal readings on the LR side, but I've seen these increases on the Fort Smith side. If readings from FS continue in this same range from now on, I'll be one happy camper:D

CM3671
5.1 = 59-62%:cool:
13.1 = 62-65%:cool:
40.1 = 87-92%:)

Winegar HD8200U
5.1 = 78%:D
13.1 = 87%:D
40.1 = 98%:eek::D

Nexstar Broadcasting (KARK ch 4) just purchased KWBF (ch 42)... Don't know if they bought the whole equity mess, or just ch 42.

Arkyman, that's a big honkin antenna. Can you get any signal on it from PBS (either Little Rock, or Gurdon)? I'm getting a 20% signal almost constantly from 13.x (9.x) Gurdon. Not enough to lock, but your antenna is lots bigger than mine :) Glad you got it working. Better than the Quantum was? Worse?

Nexstar Broadcasting (KARK ch 4) just purchased KWBF (ch 42)... Don't know if they bought the whole equity mess, or just ch 42.

Arkyman, that's a big honkin antenna. Can you get any signal on it from PBS (either Little Rock, or Gurdon)? I'm getting a 20% signal almost constantly from 13.x (9.x) Gurdon. Not enough to lock, but your antenna is lots bigger than mine :) Glad you got it working. Better than the Quantum was? Worse?

Dave, it appears the UHF side may be stronger than the Quantum , but its hard to say at the moment because I have it mounted about 17 feet lower than the Quantum was mounted and its performing at a little less on VHF and a little more on UHF. I do get KAFT 13.1, I think the tower is at Winslow. I will try for 2.1 later tonight. But, its so low power that I doubt I'll get it.

Here is a link to the story of Nexstar buying KWBF that Dave mentioned

http://www.tvnewsday.com/articles/2008/10/07/daily.3/

Dave, it appears the UHF side may be stronger than the Quantum , but its hard to say at the moment because I have it mounted about 17 feet lower than the Quantum was mounted and its performing at a little less on VHF and a little more on UHF. I do get KAFT 13.1, I think the tower is at Winslow. I will try for 2.1 later tonight. But, its so low power that I doubt I'll get it.

Forgot they had a transmitter in Winslow...Looks like you are in a good spot there. I'd give anything to be in a spot like I used to be in SE Wisconsin, where I could get 4 major cities at the turn of a rotor :)

That's a nice looking antenna. Keep me posted on how it works out. If it looks like it might outperform the Dat75, I could put all my eggs in one downlead :) with one of those.

Forgot they had a transmitter in Winslow...Looks like you are in a good spot there. I'd give anything to be in a spot like I used to be in SE Wisconsin, where I could get 4 major cities at the turn of a rotor :)

That's a nice looking antenna. Keep me posted on how it works out. If it looks like it might outperform the Dat75, I could put all my eggs in one downlead :) with one of those.

Its about the same size as the CM 3671. The Vhf end on the 3671 is longer and the UHF end of the W8200U is longer. I measured them while the elements were folded up, they are almost identical in lenght. I do think the Spun booms on the CM are a little stronger than the square booms on the Winegard. I"ve seen many post saying the Winegard was a heavier duty better built antenna. From what I can see, that is not true, in fact, the CM3671 seems like the more heavy duty Ant to me. The Elements might be slightly stronger on the Winegard, but not by much if any. However, both Antennas are the best consumers can buy. I currently own these anteannas and feel I am in possession of 3 of the very best TV antennas ever engineered for Consumers.

Channel Master Quantum 1160a with 0100C on board pre-amp VHF/UHF/FM Broadband

Channel Master Crossfire 3671 VHF/UHF/FM Broadband

Winegard HD8200U VHF/UHF/FM Broadband

I also owned once the Dehli/Jerrold VU937sr VHF/UHF/FM Broadband with UHF Extension. The monster was Almost 20 feet long. To give some perspective, it was about 4 feet longer than the Quantum 1160a and 5 feet longer than the 3671 and 8200U. Unfortunately, the VU937sr was terrible on low VHF 2-6 in my area as I stated in an earlier post.

Here is a link to the story of Nexstar buying KWBF that Dave mentioned

http://www.tvnewsday.com/articles/2008/10/07/daily.3/

Some of the followup links in this article basically say alot...
Equity's CEO quit so he could buy several equity stations...
Equity is basically broke and selling off stations to stay in business.

I say R.I.P.... A company that had a total disregard for planning ahead for the digital revolution, failed to pay employees a par salary, had one or two employees running 18+ stations at once, failed to realize the "turn off" factor of running endless infomercials...I could go on and on.

So, let's all speculate... What's this sale going to mean to the local landscape? Here are some of the things I'd do...Raise power on KWBF-DT so people can actually get them. Put KWBF-DT on their TALL KARK tower. Put NBC WeatherPlus on KWBF-DT as a subchannel (since RTN won't be there anymore I don't guess).

So, will Equity now continue using channel 20 for KKYK-DT after Feb 09? Will we lose RTN locally? Will I be able to pick up KKYK-DT from Arkadelphia on ch 49 after the flash cut?...

Let your ideas flow. Maybe we can all get the good ones together and send them to KARK.

I just had another idea....unrelated...With the abandonment of VHF-LO, what is the National Weather Service were to buy up all the old Analog transmitters, and each major office with a doppler radar, was to transmit that radar, 24/7 with a scroll at the bottom of their watches/warnings. With 5 channels, they should be able to cover 90% of the country with used cheap equipment, and not interfere with ANYONE... Since the band is pretty useless for digital, it would give it life, and as for analog tuners after Feb09, anyone wanting to get it could easily find a used vcr, dvd recorder, or other analog tuner...

TV manufacturers could put in "priority" circuitry in their high end sets to constantlymonitor the S.A.M.E signal and autotune the set to the "weather channel" in case of a warn.

Put NBC WeatherPlus on KWBF-DT as a subchannel (since RTN won't be there anymore I don't guess).

Doubt it. NBC WeatherPlus is being shut down by the end of the year.

- Trip

Well, guess that rules out that idea :) Thanks Trip...Didnt know that.

Well, guess that rules out that idea :) Thanks Trip...Didnt know that.

It was announced this afternoon, so I can't say I'd have expected you to. :)

- Trip

I just hope since Nexstar runs KARK ( a pretty good and reliable DTV ch.), they will upgrade KWBF and do something good with it for the folks or Arkansas.:)

Nexstar Broadcasting (KARK ch 4) just purchased KWBF (ch 42)... Don't know if they bought the whole equity mess, or just ch 42.


I hate to say Nex$tar Broadcasting is a step up but its big time compared to the fourth-rate outfit Equity was. Equity operated too many stations and got bit by using them as conduits for infomercials.

Here's what I expect after Nexstar takes over. They would probably (?) get rid of the s t r e t c h o v i s i o n that populates 42-1, shift some of KARK's older shows over to KWBF, and move some of KWBF's programming to KARK. KARK will likely produce a 9pm newscast for KWBF (as Nexstar stations in Springfield MO, Fayetteville, and El Dorado/Monroe presently do). Nexstar will also extort...er ask for retrans fees out of E*, D*, and cable ops.

But this sale will likely end the cozy relationship KWBF has with KATV as KWBF is the dumping ground for ABC Sports programming that KATV dumps for "Local Programming". KATV will be under pressure by ABC to air more ABC/ESPN sports programming since KWBF won't be a convenient babysitter while KATV sluts around the Infomercial Dives of Sunday afternoons.

My take on that...KATV will be up full power on ch22 by the time the sale goes though. Management at KATV already demonstrated their belief in the use of subchannels (abc news now). I'm guessing they will still run infomercials on 7-1 and push network programming to 7-2, hopefully in HD. That would give the infomercial suppliers the DBS/cable subs, and us OTA viewers the real programming.... How far off am I?

My take on that...KATV will be up full power on ch22 by the time the sale goes though. Management at KATV already demonstrated their belief in the use of subchannels (abc news now). I'm guessing they will still run infomercials on 7-1 and push network programming to 7-2, hopefully in HD. That would give the infomercial suppliers the DBS/cable subs, and us OTA viewers the real programming.... How far off am I?

I doubt that. KATV will just fire up "7 News Now" complete with outdated weather information, etc on sub 7-2.

Nexstar could stick Telemundo on a future KWBF subchannel or bring back Univision. Several of Equity's former transmitters would go dark before T-Day, the company is a complete wreck.

Or Nexstar could pull the old KATV/KRTV trick (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7788901#post7788901) and shut down KWBF-DT and return the license and just put MNTV on a KARK subchannel. :(

Its about the same size as the CM 3671. .

I just checked Winegard Direct, and found their new antenna, the HD-7698P has the EXACT same gain specs as the 8200U, with the exception its designed for 7-51 instead of 2-51. Lacking the low band, the wind loading is considerably lower...All other sizes, appear identical. This should be a winner after February, unless you live in one of the few places with a low band station. Kinda pricy tho.

I just checked Winegard Direct, and found their new antenna, the HD-7698P has the EXACT same gain specs as the 8200U, with the exception its designed for 7-51 instead of 2-51. Lacking the low band, the wind loading is considerably lower...All other sizes, appear identical. This should be a winner after February, unless you live in one of the few places with a low band station. Kinda pricy tho.

I decided not to chance it this go round. I've been swaping antennas out about every 7 years, so I'll know more about these 7-51 antennas in the future if I need another. Right now, I just couldnt go with it knowing I'd not be able to get low band VHF, plus I still get channel 60 from FS

I just said 51 out of habit...Im sure they both get ch 60... I was just thinking it might be a good one antenna replacement for my two antennas, but not at $135...It will have to come way down from that.

I just said 51 out of habit...Im sure they both get ch 60... I was just thinking it might be a good one antenna replacement for my two antennas, but not at $135...It will have to come way down from that.SolidSignal specs still say up to channel 69. But don't count on any channels above 51 being around much longer. LP stations above channel 51 can stay on the air after 2/17/09, but must vacate immediately, when notified by the new spectrum owners. That bandwidth was purchased at auction by companies like AT&T, Verizon, etc. for billions of dollars. They probably won't take kindly to squatters on their airwaves.

And no need for LO VHF any more around here. Waste of metal and it just adds wind loading and weight to antennas.

Regarding the KWBF/Nexstar buyout: Who knows what they'll do with the station. Nexstar should've spent that CASH on finishing the DT/HD upgrades of stations they already own. They had the nerve to plead with the FCC for more DT buildout time, citing "no money" as the reason. Please.

Regarding the KWBF/Nexstar buyout: Who knows what they'll do with the station. Nexstar should've spent that CASH on finishing the DT/HD upgrades of stations they already own. They had the nerve to plead with the FCC for more DT buildout time, citing "no money" as the reason. Please.

The whole thing with KWBF/Nexstar seems odd though. Nexstar is foot dragging in Joplin MO on DTV/HDTV, only got Monroe LA (KARD FOX) up at New Years and they're buying a pitiful station that lacks a true full power *digital* transmitter with a dubious network affiliation. At least the WB/UPN attempted to do original programming, much of MNTV's fare is from the Fox Reality Channel library, and old movies.

All I've got to say, LR TV is a strange marketplace...

Dave, I don't know if you saw it or not, but I responded to you question about the TV show stuff.

Well, I decided to drag my old CM Quantum 1160a out of retirement this afternoon and put it up at my shop so I could watch tv while I work on things. Man the thing was filthy, I'd had it in the top of another little 16x12 shop I have, the dirt dobbers, spiders and everything else just had a field day with it. I washed her off good with a water hose, looked a lot better, probably will help it perform a little better also. It was in worse shape than I remembered. Besides a slighty bent boom, it also had at least 5-6 broken elements that I had to "Farmer Engineer";) back together. I dont know if its because the thing is 14 years old, the amp is weak or both, but it doesnt peform quite as well on the broad spetrum as my 3671 and 8200. But the thing is old and kind of messed up somewhat. Anyway, I hooked it up to my old Mitsubishi 65" 16x9 HD monitor. It only has an NTSC tuner, no ATSC. So, I hooked it up to one of the insignia STB's that converts DTV to analog. Even so, it looks way better than the Analog did when I first hooked it straight to the tv. Another factor in the Quantums reception could be the location. My shop is about 100 feet to the East of my home, I have never had an antenna there before so I didnt know what to really expect at that location. It locks 4.1 KARK and 11.1 THV really well. 16.1 KLRT and 38.1 KASN lock but the signal is erratic and it drops a lot. 42.1 KWCRAP is a no go. On the FS side, 13.1 KAFT and 40.1 KHBS are really strong, but 18.1 KFSM is weak and wont lock. All in all, for the shop, I'm pretty happy with the set up. I'd have to say at this point, the CM3671 and Winegard 8200 definitely lock onto channels easier than the 14 yr old beat up weak amped Quantum. However, I'd love to see a comparison between all 3 of these if the Quantum was brand new, that my friends might be a whole different story, at one time I'd say it had twice the performance as what I seen out of it today. The 1160a when I first got it would bring ch 42 analog in almost as clear as 4, 7, 11 and 16 which were comparable to my C-bands PQ. Today on analog, 42 looked like crap ,very snowy, watchable but most of us wouldnt looking like that. So the Quantum has seen its better days. I also noticed today that it is much more directional than the 3671 and 8200. That can be good and bad, in my case its bad because 16 and 38 are offset a bit from 4 and 11. I like finding the hot spot where I get them all in one position, wasnt happening with the 1160a, that booger has and eye on it and you've got to really aim it. In the old days of analog, that is why this anteanna performed so well when new, it did not accept interference like multipath or ghosting at all. But, like I said, the location is also different, If I had put it back in its original location on my home roof, it might have out performed the other two ants. I tell ya fellas, all 3 are BIG HUGE ANTENNAS...and when your doing it all by yourself it'll wear you out. It would be fun to get all 3 up in similar locations and run comparison tests to see which one rises to the top. From my experience with these 3 antennas, I can draw a few conclusions, at least for my location.

The Quantum 1160a when new, is probably the best performer, however the on board amp 0100C I believe has lower gain and a higher noise rating than the CM7777 preamp. That can be a difference in an area like mine. But the Quantum seems more directional, has a "HOT BOOM" and the amp is built right into the terminals for minimal db loss in transferring signal to Coax to power supply. VHF is hot on the Quantum, UHF is good at 16, weaker at 38 and stronger at 42 when NEW, not when its 14 yrs old like mine.

The CM3671 seems to be a monster on VHF, really strong readings, UHF is pretty darn good as well. Its not as directional as the 1160a but in a way thats a good thing, it still rejects all the annoyances that can occur. I'd say as a comparison between the ants I have and the conditions they are in, the 3671 is a bit better than the Quantum on the UHF side.

The Winegard HD8200U seems to be the monster on UHF. I did not see much improvement on it with readings from LR vs the 3671, however, it smoked the 3671 on uhf readings from Fort Smith. I seen meter readings jump as much as 20 points, that is a HUGE difference. The UHF on the 8200 is the hottest I've seen from any antenna, it even out performs the Winegard PR9032 (114" yagi) and the CM4228 that I have amped up with another CM7777 amp. For some reason, Broadband antennas get higher readings on both bands at my location than single band antennas do. VHF on the 8200 is slightly weaker than the 3761 and considerably weaker than the Quantum 1160a. But, we are talking readings like KARK 4.1 CM1160a = 90%....CM3671 = 87%.......Winegard 8200U = 81%. So as you can see, even though it is the weakest of the 3 on VHF at my location, it really doesn't matter because 81% is still a very reliable signal.

Sorry for rambling so much guys, just felt like sharing some of this info, maybe someone can find some use out of it. I would also be glad to answer any questions any of you might have about these particular ants if I can. All in all, I've been enjoying myself lately with all the antenna swapping and experimenting I've been doing. Its a lot of fun to me, it can be back breaking work at times in certain situations but I have a farm so whats new:D

Steveken: Yea, I answered you...said the msg was all *'ed out, but got the info I needed.

Arkyman: Don't know how bent the boom is, or how you reattached the broken elements, but I'd wager a bet, that a new 1160a would still outperform anything out there when combined with a 7777 amp.

The quantums claim to fame back in the day, was its exceptionally narrow beamwidth and high gain. I've never seen an antenna with as narrow a beamwidth. I can actually point mine at individual towers on Shinall and see peaks at 15 miles, between individual towers. DAT75 has more gain, but not as narrow. That's only because it has twice as many elements, and a corner reflector.

Keep resurecting the 1160a :) Replace the elements with solid rolled aluminum elements hahaha.

I used to have the VHF only full sized Quantum, don't recall the model number, but I had it on a 70' tower in downtown NLR, and could watch Memphis ch 5 and 13 all day long. 3 was iffy, as was ch10. Left it on the tower when I sold the house :(

Drove by Winslow today, and the PBS AETN tower base was well above me, and my elevation was 1800' ... that sucker is high!

Steveken: Yea, I answered you...said the msg was all *'ed out, but got the info I needed.

Arkyman: Don't know how bent the boom is, or how you reattached the broken elements, but I'd wager a bet, that a new 1160a would still outperform anything out there when combined with a 7777 amp.

The quantums claim to fame back in the day, was its exceptionally narrow beamwidth and high gain. I've never seen an antenna with as narrow a beamwidth. I can actually point mine at individual towers on Shinall and see peaks at 15 miles, between individual towers. DAT75 has more gain, but not as narrow. That's only because it has twice as many elements, and a corner reflector.

Keep resurecting the 1160a :) Replace the elements with solid rolled aluminum elements hahaha.

I used to have the VHF only full sized Quantum, don't recall the model number, but I had it on a 70' tower in downtown NLR, and could watch Memphis ch 5 and 13 all day long. 3 was iffy, as was ch10. Left it on the tower when I sold the house :(

Drove by Winslow today, and the PBS AETN tower base was well above me, and my elevation was 1800' ... that sucker is high!

Thats why I said if the 1160 was new, it would probably outperform the other two. Its one of the best if not the best ever engineered for regular folk. Well, too bad on the Quantum and the tower, I bet someone enjoying them. How did you get a tower up 70 feet in the middle of the city? Dont they have regulations against things like that? Or can you get a permit to put one up?

It looks like DirecTv has added the CW 38 to its HD programming broadcasts. About time.

Thats why I said if the 1160 was new, it would probably outperform the other two. Its one of the best if not the best ever engineered for regular folk. Well, too bad on the Quantum and the tower, I bet someone enjoying them. How did you get a tower up 70 feet in the middle of the city? Dont they have regulations against things like that? Or can you get a permit to put one up?

No, no restrictions I am aware of...might be close to the airport, or if it was erected where it could fall through the neighbors roof :)

Good find on CW-HD on Directv Cotton.... Now, if only they would add PBS in HD.

It looks like DirecTv has added the CW 38 to its HD programming broadcasts. About time.

did you actually see them running some primetime shows in HD? After I seen your post, I flipped over to check it out but all the prime time shows were over and they were running their lower SD shows. I'll try to remember it tomorrow night. Thanks for the heads up:)

BTW, welcome to the forum:)

did you actually see them running some primetime shows in HD? After I seen your post, I flipped over to check it out but all the prime time shows were over and they were running their lower SD shows. I'll try to remember it tomorrow night. Thanks for the heads up:)

BTW, welcome to the forum:)

No I did not see any shows actually broadcast in HD. I did not discover it until 9ish. I am hoping for the best tonight though.

Thanks for the welcome.

It looks like DirecTv has added the CW 38 to its HD programming broadcasts. About time.I noticed the SD programs were sharper and so I assumed D* had added it to the 99s MPEG4 Sat.

The whole thing with KWBF/Nexstar seems odd though. Nexstar is foot dragging in Joplin MO on DTV/HDTV...And then there's KFTA-DT 27 (fsm/fay) that claims be at full power, but few people in the predicted full-power coverage area can receive. And the analog channel is off the air about as much as it is on. :rolleyes:

By looking on DirecTV's website, 38 is still the same SD feed. Now, I fully admit, DirecTV isn't fast about updating their site, but I would think that they would have sent out messages on the boxes or something....oh wait, they rarely do that too. :)



EDIT: Oh, wait, looking at DBSTALK and the website's front page says it is HD now. Hmm, interesting.

Looks like Comcrap has screwed around with the clearQAM mapping again. Recorded Christine last night off my tuner card and got KATV-2 instead.


Hmm, can't find PBS-HD, maybe it was that one cooking thing I saw. Found Fox News HD, but with no audio.

If you left arrow the directv guide to highlight the chaannel, the MPeg4 HD channels off the 99 satellite are labeled A3,City, channel, Call, Affiliate. The SD channels lack the "A3" designation.

Audio on Fox16 on Directv is terrible for the ballgame. Brrrippp Brrrrippp....

If you left arrow the directv guide to highlight the chaannel, the MPeg4 HD channels off the 99 satellite are labeled A3,City, channel, Call, Affiliate. The SD channels lack the "A3" designation.

38 thru Diretv now says A3

Yea, I recorded Supernatural tonight, it was HD. Looked good. Haven't watched it yet.

Yea, I recorded Supernatural tonight, it was HD. Looked good. Haven't watched it yet.

I'm so on top of things that I forgot to check 38 in primetime again to actually see something in HD:o. OF course I'm used to seeing things in HD on 38.1 thru my OTA system, but I wanted to see it thru Directv to compare the PQ's. Most of the PQ's so far are pretty much on par with what I see thru my OTA system....except Channel 7 Marcoblock Tv:rolleyes:

Whats the deal with 11.1's Audio. You can be flipping between the LR OTA channels and when you get to 11.1.....HOLY SMOKE! Cover your Ears:eek: I've been watching them since 2003 when I first hooked up my Samsung Sirt165 to my 65"Mitsubishi, their Audio has always been WAY TOO LOUD:confused:

I have a audio leveler in my Denon that pretty much gets rid of those things, unless the audio level is really the same and the perceived volume increase is caused by compression...

7.1 on Directv actually looks better to me than the OTA version, like Directv's encoder is somehow processing the signal.

I actually watched TV last night

Last night I got to watch Ugly Betty OTA via KATV on KWBF's "HachDee Lite", somewhat better than the pathetic E* SD feed. I turned to KARK for The Office and the SNL special (No Tina Fey as Winkin' Sarah though :( ).

9pm rolled around, and gave Life On Mars A look see back on ABC (KWBF-DT subchannel). That show has potential on several fronts.

After getting the dog put up for the night, I came in here and noticed that KSPR was nearly pegging the Zenith's meter. Dang, if only I'd checked again at 9pm I could have at least watched LOM with an actual HD picture!

...After getting the dog put up for the night, I came in here and noticed that KSPR was nearly pegging the Zenith's meter...KSPR-DT 19's signal is really really strong. I can easily get it with just an "RF remote" antenna, connected to the ANT-IN jack on my D* HR20-DVR. And I'm 70 miles from the transmitter.
http://i38.tinypic.com/2djpk61.png

KSPR-DT's low UHF channel 19 and having their antenna ~3300 ft above mean sea level helps!
I think low UHF is the most reliable channel band for OTA DTV.

KSPR-DT 19's signal is really really strong. I can easily get it with just an "RF remote" antenna, connected to the ANT-IN jack on my D* HR20-DVR. And I'm 70 miles from the transmitter.
http://i38.tinypic.com/2djpk61.png

KSPR-DT's low UHF channel 19 and having their antenna ~3300 ft above mean sea level helps!
I think low UHF is the most reliable channel band for OTA DTV.

Wish I could get it. Its gotta be going right over me to get to Haley !!!

Wish I could get it. Its gotta be going right over me to get to Haley !!!You must have a hill in the way.

Those flatlanders get all the good DX-ing... :)

KSPR-DT 19 (33-1) Springfield MO ((HD))
WPTY-DT 25 (24-1) Memphis ((HD))
KTBS-DT 28 (3-1) Shreveport LA ((HD))
KTUL-DT 10 (8-1) Tulsa ((HD))
KWBF-DT 44 (42-2) Little Rock in low-bandwidth standard definition

ABC affiliates KHBS, KHOG, KAIT, KATV (KWBF-DT "7-1"), and WABG will carry the South Carolina @ Kentucky game on Raycom.

Oh, if you wanna watch the arkansas game, and if your TV is capable of showing clearQAM, its going to be on pay-per-view on one of the clearQAM channels. If you do a scan for it, you will see the placeholder that says ark v auburn I think it is (don't know cause I don't care that much).

You must have a hill in the way.

Those flatlanders get all the good DX-ing... :)

Huh? :D I'm only 8 miles from the "flatlands". There are a few hills in the Star City-Monticello corridor (one of which blocks WABG's signal here--aided of course by poor frequency coordination by the FCC :( ).

(exposing my redneck side ;) ) I once rented a mobile home years ago in a valley between two hills north of Monticello. Needless to say TV reception (this was before DTV and D*, and E*) was iffy at best except for (analogs) 2, 7, 38, and 10 (KTVE). WABG (analog) 6 came in great. 4, 11 were snowy and 16 was tropo dependent. I was told at the top of that hill rabbit ears worked quite well.

I also lived some years later at a location in Star City and actually had a waiver from KTHV for CBS (WCBS, KCBS) on D* DNS because there was a water tower and a north hill blocking reliable reception.

South Arkansas does have a few good places for DX, There are some areas nearby that are better suited but this place is much better than the creek bottoms surrounded by pine trees.

Last week when I went to Monticello, I noticed there were a few 450'-500' long top hills, seemed like I was either at 450' or 200 feet...I was thinking to myself how good the DX must be on top of one of the big ridges...

...South Arkansas does have a few good places for DX, There are some areas nearby that are better suited but this place is much better than the creek bottoms surrounded by pine trees.I've often wondered why the huge pine trees my 4228 is aimed directly at don't muck with NWA reception.

KSPR-DT 19 (33-1) Springfield MO ((HD))
WPTY-DT 25 (24-1) Memphis ((HD))
KTBS-DT 28 (3-1) Shreveport LA ((HD))
KTUL-DT 10 (8-1) Tulsa ((HD))
KWBF-DT 44 (42-2) Little Rock in low-bandwidth standard definition

ABC affiliates KHBS, KHOG, KAIT, KATV (KWBF-DT "7-1"), and WABG will carry the South Carolina @ Kentucky game on Raycom.
What about KODE-DT 43 (12-1) in Joplin (http://www.fcc.gov/ftp/Bureaus/MB/Databases/fm_tv_service_areas/maps/DT1167637.gif)?

Anyone with access to PBS-HD, can you tell me whats on it right now? I wanna check to see if I remapped it right, but whats on now is something I haven't seen before, so I can't tell if its right. Its two guys talking and the info says its supposed to be "Martket to market" and something about "Social, political, and economic trends of American agriculture".

Anyone with access to PBS-HD, can you tell me whats on it right now? I wanna check to see if I remapped it right, but whats on now is something I haven't seen before, so I can't tell if its right. Its two guys talking and the info says its supposed to be "Martket to market" and something about "Social, political, and economic trends of American agriculture".

Two guys sitting at a table tlking, in 4:3...Looks like Moyers. Talking to a guy with a foreign accent.

Anyone with access to PBS-HD, can you tell me whats on it right now?
Bill Moyers Journal "Global Capital Meltdown" is the topic.
KOZK-DT 23 (21-2) PBS-HD from Springfield, MO.
In 16:9 720p. Not quite HD, but a helluva lot closer than AETN.

Does anyone know if any company makes a cable or converter to go from YPrPb (RGB on the back of Directv receiver) to a VGA input on a computer monitor?

Does anyone know if any company makes a cable or converter to go from YPrPb (RGB on the back of Directv receiver) to a VGA input on a computer monitor?Check with Monoprice.

What about KODE-DT 43 (12-1) in Joplin (http://www.fcc.gov/ftp/Bureaus/MB/Databases/fm_tv_service_areas/maps/DT1167637.gif)?

I didn't think KODE was full power yet. I'll keep a lookout when I hear they are ;)

Thats why I didn't list 'em.

Check with Monoprice.

Yea, I did. They have cables, but note on each one that it WONT work between a Component HD device and a computer monitor.

The Directv receiver has Red, Blue and Green with Sync... VGA requires Red, Blue, Green, Horizontal Sync, Vertical Sync.

I'm guessing I need something to convert the signals. Probably just be cheaper to go to Wal Mart and get a 22" lcd hdtv. I'm wanting to have the second DVR on a computer sized monitor next to the 17" widescreen computer monitor...so both can be used at once. I have a couple old computer monitors and was just going to use one of those, but looks like a converter isn't going to be cheap like a cable.

I didn't think KODE was full power yet. I'll keep a lookout when I hear they are ;)I was just wondering if KODE was going to show the game at all (including the analog ch). Some people in Benton County might watch it (as an alternative to raycom crap on KHOG).

Yea, I did. They have cables, but note on each one that it WONT work between a Component HD device and a computer monitor.

The Directv receiver has Red, Blue and Green with Sync... VGA requires Red, Blue, Green, Horizontal Sync, Vertical Sync.

I'm guessing I need something to convert the signals. Probably just be cheaper to go to Wal Mart and get a 22" lcd hdtv. I'm wanting to have the second DVR on a computer sized monitor next to the 17" widescreen computer monitor...so both can be used at once. I have a couple old computer monitors and was just going to use one of those, but looks like a converter isn't going to be cheap like a cable.
I have this big 29" CRT monitor that takes those kinds of inputs from a VGA output of a computer, but thats the closest I have.

Incidently, anyone wanna buy that? Its a NEC Multisync XM29+ 29" monitor that has like 4 inputs on it. It works really well, but, being a CRT, is big and bulky. Has slight burn in on the screen from the stuff that it was used for on it, but other than that its great. It came from the engineering department of some place I think. I got it used and it worked for me till I wanted to upgrade. Anyway, would work great for a shop monitor if you have a tuner that you can hook up to it. I am negotiable on price if you wanna haggle. I just would like it gone from my bedroom. Kinda taking up space. I have pics somewhere of front and back if you wanna see it. I'll throw in the VGA to RCA cable that I bought for it along with the power cord (not like you guys won't have a million of them laying around, its just a computer power cord).

Hey Alison, if you get a chance to see this, I had an idea for the weather segments on the news that you might be able to pass along to the right people if you think its a good idea.

I have noticed that it takes a little while (relatively speaking of course) for that green screen to roll up and down out in the weather garden. And sometimes it gets a squeak to it while its rolling.

How about this, you guys could leave it down all the time and just put a small, relatively inexpensive camera out there to take a shot of whats behind the screen and just chroma-key it in while the talent is out there doing their shots? It could/would look like its not even there and give a nice increase of available time when doing the segments out there without the added distraction of the screen going up or down.

What do you think? I, personally, would like it a lot and would think it was a very big improvement over what you guys do now. Anyway, just thought I would throw that idea out there. Just something I have been thinking about.

Just found something I have been waiting for since MTV went reality tv...

TVU Music Television, a non-profit, no commercial radio and television enterprise with 100% music videos, 24 hrs per day.

Available on the internet, select radio stations, and as of yesterday, on AMC16 C band, 3824 H 2480, its currently in SD with plans to go HD.

Totally donation supported.

The music is great, mix of pop to metal, new bands I've never heard of, to standbys. Looks great, even in SD :)

Check it out at http://www.unleashthemusic.org or AMC16 (Its at 85W I believe).

Would make a GREAT digital LP or subchannel addition...maybe KARK will add it as a subchannel on KWBF when they buy it...that would be awesome.

I love music, and its been forever since there was any free music vid channels...

Used to have a lot of Christian oriented music (couple of years ago) when it was known as TVU Spirit (I believe it is owned by Spirit Communications).

Anyway, here's a direct link to watch it:

http://www.tvulive.com/watch.htm

Haven't watched that channel on satellite for a while. I believe it may have disappeared for a while... or maybe I just forgot to watch.

Thanks for the post. It jogged my memory.

dmatch

a friend owns a Phillips 30pw8420. he asked me about getting over the air HD channels. I can't seem to get them with auto program. the label says it is HD TV. the user manual is quiet about it. since I use a provider I'm not familiar with what is needed. I know the channles are *-1 but that's about it. I know I could research but I'm on my iPhone hoping someone has a quick answer. thanks.

Press Menu
Cursor up/down to highlight INSTALL
Cursor right to display install features
Cursor up/down to Tuner Mode
Cursor right to select Cable/antenna or auto
When finished press status/exit

I'm guessing it has to be set to antenna if he wants to use OTA.

The web is mixed, but it appears the unit might only have a NTSC tuner (HD ready) and may not be able to tune ATSC. Reference was made to requiring an external tuner.

Press Menu
Cursor up/down to highlight INSTALL
Cursor right to display install features
Cursor up/down to Tuner Mode
Cursor right to select Cable/antenna or auto
When finished press status/exit

:) Yah I tried all the conventional menu tricks. I set cable, set antenna, set auto...and tried programming channels under each.

I'm back home now and perused the forums a little deeper. I think he's going to need a set-top box HD tuner. Pretty sure the TV is just an HD monitor, not a tuner.

Yea, I just edited my msg too...Found that info also. Be cheaper for him to just get a new flat screen TV or subscribe to Directv/Dish or Cough, cable.

:) Yah I tried all the conventional menu tricks. I set cable, set antenna, set auto...and tried programming channels under each.

I'm back home now and perused the forums a little deeper. I think he's going to need a set-top box HD tuner. Pretty sure the TV is just an HD monitor, not a tuner.That's what google says. HD monitor.

So, no one needs a 29" CRT monitor that they can hook a tuner up to for their shops or anything? Sorry, just getting hounded by the wife to get rid of the thing and would hate to put it by the curb. LOL No one on garagesale wanted it either. Interested in ANY offer at this point.

I haven't watched KATV live lately off DirecTV, did they ever get the issue with the audio/video sync fixed?

It comes and goes. Depends when you are watching.

This has been going on for waaaaay too long. Thank goodness for OTA reception.

So, no one needs a 29" CRT monitor that they can hook a tuner up to for their shops or anything? Feline Rescue & Rehome (FuRR) is having a yard sale 11/7 and 11/8 and we'd love to have the monitor to sell. You can go to www.teamfurr.org for our email address and phone number.

Yea, I just edited my msg too...Found that info also. Be cheaper for him to just get a new flat screen TV or subscribe to Directv/Dish or Cough, cable.

Wow really? I haven't even looked at how much ATSC tuners are. I'm thinking he'll pass since he's not subscribing to a provider in the first place. Thanks for the help.

He has a couple options..
1.. $400 for a Free To Air satellite receiver with built in ATSC tuner...it let's you watch all sorts of free HD and SD material direct from satellite for free, plus gets all locals with an antenna.
2.. A standalone ATSC tuner which I have no cost estimate for.
3. A "converter" box for $60 which let's him receive the HD program and other DTV channels, but outputs in SD to the TV's svideo jack.
4. An HD Tivo for $299 plus an additional $13 a month for guide data.
5. A $50 USB ATSC tuner stick for the computer, which could be plugged into the TV and provide HD.
6. A new flat screen TV.
7. Directv or Cable.
8. rumor has it Echostar will be selling a HD ATSC standalone DVR this winter, with free guide data.
9. Buy a used Mpeg2 Directv receiver with built in ATSC tuner, as these are no longer any good for Directv since they switched to Mpeg4, but the OTA tuner would still work...might even get free guide data if he plugged it into a directv 18" dish.

Anyone that DOESNT have HD, and DOES have cable tv... I have a Sony Tivo SVR-2000 with lifetime subscription I'm going to be selling as it will NOT work OTA after Feb 09 and Tivo will not update the software to control an external DTV converter box, nor give me a credit on a lifetime sub for a HD Tivo. It WILL work great for you if you have analog cable/SD digital cable box or Directv SD receiver.

Has 130 hrs (upgraded hard drive).. If interested, email me at davenlr@yahoo.com.

Now we might have some idea why KARK bought KWBF? Is it possible?

www.engadgethd.com/2008/10/14/nbc-replaces-weather-plus-with-universal-sports/

They used to be World Championship Sports Network (WCSN) and were in the clear on 4DTV BUD satellite for a couple of years until NBC became involved and it was re-branded as Universal Sports Television Network (USTN).

I watched quite a bit of it and liked the channel when it was WCSN. They tended to repeat events ad-nausium but in general I enjoyed many of the Olympic, international type sport events. I also watched a lot of World Curling Federation events on their (WCSN) internet site for free. Horrible picture but I have been known to listen to curling on internet radio so it was somewhat better than that.

I don't see how that relates to KWBF going to be purchased by KARK though. It seems to me that USTN is intended to be a subchannel not a primary channel. You know what that would mean....A 4-2. I thought the only sports allowed in Arkansas was Razorback football and basketball :rolleyes:. Please elaborate, speculate, postulate.

Edit:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Sports

dmatch

I don't see how that relates to KWBF going to be purchased by KARK though. It seems to me that USTN is intended to be a subchannel not a primary channel. You know what that would mean....A 4-2. I thought the only sports allowed in Arkansas was Razorback football and basketball :rolleyes:. Please elaborate, speculate, postulate.

Edit:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Sports

dmatch

Well, I kinda guessed that KARK's engineer probably is anti-subchannel (thank God) and maybe they talked corporate into using KWBF for the subchannel activity. I really don't know what else they would pay that kind of money for a second station in a market with no unserved networks...unless they are going to keep running Mntv...Which I doubt survives...

...unless they are going to keep running Mntv...Which I doubt survives...
Wouldn't that be a hoot! That is, No change.

I was guilty of saying KARK is buying KWBF when it is Nexstar doing the buying and they already own 5 MNTV affiliate stations. So... Will it be 6? Probably... for at least a little while anyway.

I really hope not, unless they put USTN as a subchannel with it and give it at least a little bandwidth and get rid of the squashed TV picture. I watch almost nothing on KWBF, but actually that's more to do with the stretch-o-vision since I can't stand to even see what is on there.

Ain't extrapolating, speculating, postulating fun?

dmatch