Originally posted by Tusk
As far as setting up the CM 4221, can it be placed on a pole that is attached to a satellite footing. If it's just attached to the shingles (worst choice for dish install, BTW), I would not add another antenna to the mast, due to possible wind loading. The mast you linked to would work if securely attached to something other than roof decking. I would also watch the contraption during the first winds that come along. If any swaying at all was observed, guy wires should be added.

--Sam

Anybody seen channel 5 come up for testing? Don't watch a lot of PBS, but there are a couple of shows I will glance at to see if I have any interest that night. Has anyone got any ideas if they plan to pass HD when it is available.

/ Dennis

Dennis

I tried to tune in Aetn today and was not successful. I found some information at the bottom of their website about their digital transition.

http://www.aetn.org/

Hopefully it will be functional soon.


Jeff

KAFT is coming in here on channels 9-3,9-4,9-5,9-6 with a signal strength in the low 80's.

No sound yet however......

jstrossner,
No KETS-DT for me, either. But since KETS-DT is not in the D* EPG database yet, I don't think my Samsung TS160 will "see" it unless I go into setup and tell it "NO DISH". NO DISH option makes the STB look for OTA DTV stations based on PSIP, instead of the EPG data. But setting the box to "NO DISH" mucks with my favorite stations, which is a chore to rebuild.

I wondering if I'll actually be able to receive KETS-DT at all, since they're down in Redfield and only xmitting at a measly 1 kW ERP.

Arkie,
What are they broadcasting? Test patterns? Simulcast of the analog station?....?
Send an email to AETN's director, Allen Weatherly aweatherly@aetn.org and let him know you're receiving the station. Also tell him you would prefer they not attempt multicasting on extra sub channels in the evenings, when PBS-HD programs are being broadcast. Multicasting significantly reduces HD picture quality.

They are broadcasting the same as what is on their analog station. All four channels have the same thing on, just no sound......

All four channels are compressed looking...... lots of pixelation....

What's the current status of the WB? Have they been approved to begin transmitting? Will they be carrying HD when they do?

If they can get up and running with HD, then that only leaves KARK as the only hold out who doesn't care about meeting the spirit of the law or providing quality services to the consumers.

If KARK isn't going to broadcast HD, the FCC should sell their spectrum to someone who will. They've had it for 50 years. Give someone else a shot.

Originally posted by Arkie
... All four channels are compressed looking...... lots of pixelation....Please contact AETN (aweatherly@aetn.org) and LET THEM KNOW that digital that looks worse than analog is unacceptable.

Tusk,
I haven't heard any more about KWBF-DT. Contact their public relations director, Doug Krile at: DKrile@ebc.ebcorp.net

You may soon be able to get NBC-HD on DirecTV if the new satellite viewer bill becomes law. Part of the bill allows satellite providers to offer HD distant network programming in markets where the local affiliate won't spend the bucks for HD or full power digital. The bill is supposed to pressure local stations to get serious about digital.

Even if the bill doesn't become law, D* may add other network HD stations soon, since the launch of DirecTV 7s satellite was successful. If that happens, you can just "move" your service address to a white area and subscribe to the networks alacarte. That's what I did. It gives you an option when the local station forgets to throw the HD switch, or when they're shrinking the picture to show election results or weather junk. It also gives you DD 5.1 on CBS-HD, if you're into that.

Arxaw-

On my 160, I am showing both 7-1 and 7-2 when entering my zip for the primary market, where on channel 11, I just have 11-1 show up. I thought 11-2 was a radar, and 7-1 was the only thing KATV was transmitting on. I get a signal of about 30% off and on on 7-1 and 7-2, but since I can't actually see anything on either, am wondering what I should be concentrating on. Did your scan reveal a 7-2 or is that just an issue with the zip code system?

KATV-DT is broadcasting 720p on 7-1 and (wasting significant HD bandwidth) broadcasting 480i or 480p on 7-2. KTHV-DT shows 1080i on 11-1 and a very low bandwidth radar image on 11-2.

You may be getting incorrect guide data from DirecTV for your ZIP Code. Tribune Media Services actually supplies the EPG data for D*.

Try putting in a LR ZIP like 72227 or 72201. The box will reboot and reload the guide info from D*. If the LR ZIP gives you the correct sub channels, just leave the box set to a LR ZIP, unless it affects other channels you receive locally. I would also report the errors to TMS (mailto:listings@zap2it.com).

Originally posted by arxaw
Tusk,
I haven't heard any more about KWBF-DT. Contact their public relations director, Doug Krile at: DKrile@ebc.ebcorp.net

I found this on the FCC website. Probably old news to you guys, but at least KWBF got the approval to use 44 instead of 43 and will be locating their digital signal on Shinall.

IT IS ORDERED, That effective March 3, 2003, the DTV Table of Allotments, Section 73.622(b) of the Commission's Rules, IS AMENDED, with respect to the community listed below, to read as follows:

City Channel No.
Little Rock, Arkansas *5, 12c, 22, 30, 32, 44

IT IS FURTHER ORDERED, That within 45 days of the effective date of this Order, River City Broadcasting, Inc. shall submit to the Commission a minor change application for a construction permit (FCC Form 301) specifying DTV Channel 44 in lieu of DTV Channel 43c for station KWBF-DT.

Anyone in Maumelle having much luck getting KATV-DT? I can get 4, 11, 16, and 38, but no 7.

Thanks

KATV-DT transmitter is in Redfield. It's a low power transmitter with a directional antenna aimed at WLR, so you may have problems receiving them. I know people in downtown LR/NLR that can't get KATV-DT.

ANYONE in the LR area getting KETS-DT yet?

Originally posted by arxaw
ANYONE in the LR area getting KETS-DT yet?
Not yet, anyone one got an idea when they plan to start testing? We might be a good resource for them to get some feedback on how they are doing if we know when they start.

/Dennis

I am in Conway with a 72034 zip code. I just recently found this thread, and have a few questions. I have my service with Voom and have gone through several different off-air antennas to try to pick up our locals. The towers for 16, 11, and channel 4 are all just about 20 miles away, but channel 11 is the only channel that I can pick up consistently. What else can I do to make this work?

tmilam,

I'm in Conway also. I had about the same luck with reception before I got a Channelmaster 7777 amplifier. I have a Televes antenna with the amp running into a Voom receiver and get 4,7,11,16,and 38. 25 is just too weak and I'm waiting for PBS.

Jeff

KETS-DT is on, but very weak. The RF channel number is 5.
They are multicasting on:
2-1
2-2
2-3
2-4
I'm getting very pixelated video on all sub channels, and no audio on 2-1.

I assume the pixelization is due to cramming that many multicasts into one channel. YUCK.

Anyone else having any luck getting KETS-DT?

Originally posted by arxaw
Anyone else having any luck getting KETS-DT?
I am getting it. Some audio breakups but the video has been pretty good. I am able to use the rotator to aim the yagi at the tower so I think that has helped.

/ Dennis

Where is the best place to get the Channel Master 4221? Can I get it locally or do I need to order it? If I need to order it, who can ship it here the fastest?

Thanks.

Not available in Little Rock (please post your location in your PROFILE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/member.php?s=&action=editprofile)).

Warren Electronics has one of the lowest prices I've seen on the 4221, and their shipping is very fast - like a couple of days. I've ordered stuff from them several times and never had a problem. Here's a link to the Channel Master antennas (http://www.warrenelectronics.com/Antennas/Chmaster_ant.htm) they sell. If you need a preamp, get the CM 7777 VHF/UHF, which happens to be on sale right now at warren.

Be aware that the 4221 is designed for UHF only. It will usually work OK for upper VHF channels 7-13 (like KTHV-DT), but performs poorly for lowband VHF (chs 2-6). PBS/AETN/KETS-DT is in the VHF lowband on channel 5.

Originally posted by arxaw
Not available in Little Rock (please post your location in your PROFILE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/member.php?s=&action=editprofile)).

Warren Electronics has one of the lowest prices I've seen on the 4221, and their shipping is very fast - like a couple of days. I've ordered stuff from them several times and never had a problem. Here's a link to the Channel Master antennas (http://www.warrenelectronics.com/Antennas/Chmaster_ant.htm) they sell. If you need a preamp, get the CM 7777 VHF/UHF, which happens to be on sale right now at warren.

Be aware that the 4221 is designed for UHF only. It will usually work OK for upper VHF channels 7-13 (like KTHV-DT), but performs poorly for lowband VHF (chs 2-6). PBS/AETN/KETS-DT is in the VHF lowband on channel 5.

Thanks for the info. I was just about to order from that company. Looks like I was on the right track.

Gonna try without the preamp, but if I need one, I'll get that one.

Thanks again.

Hey guys,

Im from the Stuttgart area and im new to the forum and HDTV for that matter. I recently picked up a 57 Hitachi HDTV and got interested in HDTV after that i decided to buy a Samsung 150 STB off ebay that came with a RS 1890 Indoor Antenna. I figured i would read this thread to answer some questions but it has just produced them. First off my experiance with my little entry level set top box and antenna is that if i set the antenna on the roof from my deck out the window ( oh yea lookin redneck doing that but it all in the name of experiamentation) I can if selected to VHF play with the dipole and amp on get CBS with about 4-5 bars which is enough to lock it intermittently and after watching a few shows in HDTV have never seen anything look any better. if i select the UHF heli and amp on and point it just right ( this is from the back side of my house just sitting on the eve) using a compass to help me a little ( hope im even reading it right) i can get FOX and UPN neither of these stations look near as good as CBS. Now i recently called D* and worked what a feel is a good deal on New receiver upgrade my questions start here.

1. when i get the D* HDTV upgrade with the launch of the new Sat can i expect to get my Local Channels in HD through D* anytime soon?

2. if not my research on the net seems to indicate that this

is the [URL=http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/4228.htm]

best antenna since i am 59.7 miles away from Fox and CBS. But my little RS cheapo will pick them up if oriented correctly.

i was also looking at this antenna because i can pick it up locally.

[URL=http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=15-2154]

Anyone have any luck with the RS antennas basically i want FOX and CBS because it looks like there isnt much point in any others.

3. Finally there was mention in using a "white spot" address to obtain locals what are the mechanics of doing this i mean how does one select and address where one does not live and pick up the bill and or equipment they **** there ect.

i dont want to cheat anyone i just want my local channels ive been paying D* for over the last year and have never gotten and been routinely lied too about.

thx for any Help or suggestions :)

SGilbert

What would be the difference between the ChannelMaster 7777 and the 7778? Is one better than the other or just better in different locations? I am in Conway, 72034.

You can find the specs at the Channel Master site. They are Titan preamplifier's.

http://www.channelmaster.com/

/Dennis

Dlot you got any idea how to skirt around the local channel issue? im ready to receive

Originally posted by sgilbert
Dlot you got any idea how to skirt around the local channel issue? im ready to receive

1. when i get the D* HDTV upgrade with the launch of the new Sat can i expect to get my Local Channels in HD through D* anytime soon?

7S is a spot beam satellite meant primarily to provide additional SD locals to mid-size DMA's not currently served by D*. You will not see HD locals with this satellite. There has been some discussion about the possibility that the Spaceway satellite that is to be launched later this year could be reconfigured to provide HD locals. There are several issues with this though that will have to be worked out. It would probably require a bigger dish, a different LMB, and would probably be more suseptable to rain fade. No one is sure if it would require a different receiver although that looks to be a real possibility. That said D* seems aware that HD locals in the near future are a must if they are going to compete with cable. Probably coming but not imminent.

2. best antenna since i am 59.7 miles away from Fox and CBS.

araxw would be the best to ask about this. At that distance you may be looking at a CM 4228. Here in LR he usually recommends the CM 4221 but you may need the 4228 because of the distance. You almost for sure need a good preamp. The CM Titan 7777 is one that a lot of us have had good results.

3. Finally there was mention in using a "white spot" address to obtain locals

White spots refer to areas that are not in a local stations DMA. They are not used to receive local stations but distant network stations from the East and West coast. What you are seeing done is people who live in a local DMA and want to receive the network feeds because they either can't get the local with an OTA antenna reliably or the local station does not do HD. You are able to "move" your service address to a "white spot" and qualify for the distant networks.

araxw, did I miss anything?



Edited to correct misinformation - Thanks Tusk

Originally posted by dlott
White spots refer to areas that are not in a local stations DMA. They are not used to receive local stations but distant network stations from the East and West coast. What you are seeing done is people who live in a local DMA and want to receive the network feeds because they either can't get the local with an OTA antenna reliably or the local station does do HD. The distant network stations all are HD so you are able to "move" your service address to a "white spot" and qualify for the distant networks.

araxw, did I miss anything?

/Dennis

Actually, the only distant network offered by D* or E* in HD right now is CBS, D* will begin offering Fox in HD this fall. The rest of the distant network channels are SD.

Thanks Tusk. I get the locals here fine so have not "moved". Sorry for the misinformation. :o

A white area will get you the NY/LA networks (but NOT the LR locals when they become available June 10). The NY/LA nets include CBS-HD & (soon) FOX-HD. ABC & NBC *may* be possibly added later, if all goes well with DirecTV 7s satellite.

A few white area towns in Arkansas are:
FiftySix, AR
Mountain View, AR (certain addresses in valleys)
Ponca, AR
Boxley, AR

To get some addresses in those towns, enter the town name & state at:
http://wp.netscape.com/netcenter/whitereverse.html

Enter some addresses to see if they qualify for the NY/LA nets at:
http://directvdnseligibility.decisionmark.com/app/AddressEntry.asp
If you find a qualified address, add an apartment number to it. That way, if the address happens to already have D* service, there won't be a conflict. Call D* at:
800 DIRECTV and tell them you're moving and doing a self-install, but keeping your current billing address. Then request they add the distant nets. You can order them alacarte.

There is no problem with the fact that your phone number won't match the town you're moving to. They don't check that, and don't care;) In fact, you don't even have to have a phone line any more. Just tell them you only have a cell phone. If they give you slack (they shouldn't), ask to speak to customer retention. --Sam

For other "moving" to a white area, go to:
http://www.dbsforums.com
Look in the "General Information" forums. There are several D* CSRs that post there.

Originally posted by sgilbert
... research on the net seems to indicate that this

is the http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/4228.htm

best antenna since i am 59.7 miles away from Fox and CBS. But my little RS cheapo will pick them up if oriented correctly.

i was also looking at this antenna because i can pick it up locally.

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=15-2154
sgilbert, welcome to the forum.

Either one of those antennas should work, although the RatShack mileage ratings are grossly exaggerated. You may need a preamp for reliable reception in all weather and seasons, and you may need a rotor, or two antennas + an A/B switcher to switch between the two. Only add the preamp, rotor, etc. if needed later.

Order the CM 7777 VHF/UHF preamp from warren electronics or some other place, if your signal strength is low or drops later. Do bother with cheap amps from RS or Wallymart. They have too much noise and don't always work well. The CM preamps are on sale right now at warren until June 30.... --Sam
[i do not work for warren electronics]

Mena, AR is eligible for both locals and distant networks. With the possible adding of the HD feeds of ABC and NBC, I would think you would be better off making a "move" now to avoid any issues coming up later when a large amount of subscribers may "move" to get access to the feeds that they can't get locally.

Originally posted by nj829
Mena, AR is eligible for both locals and distant networks. With the possible adding of the HD feeds of ABC and NBC, I would think you would be better off making a "move" now to avoid any issues coming up later when a large amount of subscribers may "move" to get access to the feeds that they can't get locally.

nj829,

I know you are aware, but the SHVERA bill working it's way through Congress now may include a provision that would disallow distant networks if you are eligible to receive locals by satellite and not strictly by your ability to receive an adequate OTA signal. I am just hoping that they will include the following two provisions:

1) If a local network affiliate does not broadcast in HD, you would qualify for a distant HD network station until such time as it is available.

2) That if a local station chooses to take their digital bandwidth and multi-cast only the primary sub-channel will be considered must carry.

I think this will do more to get the digital transition moving than anything else the FCC could do and would not cost the government or taxpayers a penny.

/Dennis

thx for the help guys!!

You mentioned June 10th is that date pretty firm? When we get locals on June 10th will any be avaliable in HD?

i just realized i payed for locals like a whole damn year i didnt get them.


SGilbert

thx for the welcome to btw

Originally posted by sgilbert
You mentioned June 10th is that date pretty firm? When we get locals on June 10th will any be available in HD?

The date looks to be firm since the first local's roll out seems to have gone off without a lot of difficulty. No, the locals that will be coming the 10th are in SD only.

\Dennis

My biggest concern with the HD networks for those who can't receive due to local carriage is that it won't happen until the FCC cutoff for analog happens, or a huge fight from the NAB. Also, if they don't specify a certain power level, the stations that are broadcasting lower such as ALL in Little Rock (minus Fox and UPN) would complain that they offer HD, so you shouldn't get the feeds. The final option would be to just "move" to NYC, as the big 4 are on national beams there, you would just have to look for them under their normal channel assignments vs. in the 380's. I did inquire back in Dec. about getting a waiver for CBS thru KTHV, but was told they would not honor one for an HD feed, since it is based on analog only.

Where there is a will, there is a way...Spending a couple grand on HD equipment only to watch analog doesn't work for most people, so I would think that retailers would start to push a bit for the signal, oh, wait, then they would actually have to be more truthful on reception issues...(No Best Buy, just because digital cable has the word digital in it DOESN"T make it HD) No offense to any employee who knows the difference, just train your co-workers.

Wow - it sure does stink to get to watch the Eastern and Western conference Finals in HD, then have to watch the NBA Finals in SD on crappy Dish network ABC locals.

Seems backwards and frustrating that everyone in the US can get ESPNHD and THTHD if they want to - but only a small portion can get the network ABCHD.
Sorry for the rant - it just blows to have this big HDTV and have to watch SD.

Well i got the SamSung T360 installed today it tears me up that ive paid for local and been lied to about them for over a year for nothing and have to skip past the CBSHD channel that i cant recieve. Man thats bull the only Locals i want are CBS and FOX anyway. well maybe a 4228 will pull them in and i dont have to do all the lieing and stuff. It really ticks me off we cant get HD locals anyway when im 60 miles from them as it is.

i guess ill order a 4228 from Warren.

Thx guys.

SGilbert

We are only a little better off up here. We are in the Springfield, MO DMA; but only 1 channel up there is broadcasting in HD (KYTV-NBC). I have been lucky in that I can get KFSM and KHOG (CBS & ABC) in HD from Faytetteville/Ft. Smith. No Fox HD OTA though. Fortunately, Harrison is in a white area for all networks except NBC, so maybe when Fox HD is added to satellite I will at least have all the major networks.....

KTHV down in Little Rock has told me they have increased their power to 70% to see if I can lock on their signal. It has not helped very much. Are any of you guys noticing any increase in strength?

Maybe if the significantly viewed thing goes through, I can get Little Rock on DirecTV since the local cable in Harrison carries KATV, KTHV, and KARK....?

Originally posted by Arkie
... KTHV down in Little Rock has told me they have increased their power to 70% to see if I can lock on their signal. It has not helped very much. Are any of you guys noticing any increase in strength?...Interesting. When did they increase the power to 70%? Last I heard, it was only increased to 50%, but was temporarily bumped up to 100% during the Super Bowl.

FWIW, my signal strength for KTHV-DT is 100%, so if they from 50 to 70% of full power I wouldn't notice it.....

When I posted on here that I was occasionally getting KTHV, someone here, I believe it was you arxaw, told me I should let them know it. So I sent them an email, and they replied they would bump up the signal 10% a week until I got a steady signal......

We exchanged emails a few more times, they went to 70%, it really didn't help much, so I decided to not bother them anymore......

It has probably been 5 weeks or so since I have communicated with them.....

The reason I get them occasionally may be due to atmospheric conditions. Last week, I was getting most of the Tulsa digitals with signals in the 90's.

Most of the time, the signal strengths from Tulsa range from 0-10....

Any chance for us to get LR on satellite if this significantly viewed clause goes through?

Originally posted by Arkie
... The reason I get them [KTHV-DT] occasionally may be due to atmospheric conditions. Last week, I was getting most of the Tulsa digitals with signals in the 90's.

Most of the time, the signal strengths from Tulsa range from 0-10....

Any chance for us to get LR on satellite if this significantly viewed clause goes through? You can check when atmospheric conditions are best for distant OTA reception at:
http://www.iprimus.ca/~hepburnw/tropo.html
Best hours are usually evenings or early mornings before 10am. These are also the times when you may suffer from distant channel interference, too. Especially VHF channels.

The new satellite act may change the rules for distant locals and allow D* to carry the same stuff the local cableco carries. Even if you were able to get LR locals on satellite, they won't be in High Def for the forseeable future - at least not on Dish or DirecTV. They just don't have the bandwidth.

I noticed that the LR locals on DirecTV are only available in certain zip codes, not including the county just to our south, Searcy, despite the fact I think they are in the LR DMA.

Is that because the spot beam won't reach us up here? That might be a problem if significantly viewed DMA's are allowed in the future.

Arkie,
Just guessing here, but I thought the exclusions were based on ZIP Codes that were claimed by other affiliates like Fayetteville, Springfield, etc... But maybe it is a spot beam problem.

Go into your STB setup menu and check the signal strength for the following transponders on the 119° satellite (SAT-B). The new locals will be on:
23
25
29
31

Looking at the map at:
http://www.ulna.net/mapserver/dtv/view.html
it appears that the LR locals will likely be on either transponder 25 or 31. If you get high signal strength on those 2 xponders, you can just "move" to a LR address, or some other address that qualifies, and get the locals (SD only, no HD).

Here are my signal strength readings for those transponders:
23 - 20
25 - 100
29 - 0
31 - 100

signal strengths

23- 0
25- 73
29- 74
31- 86

It is cloudy and rainy today, so that might have some minor effects.....

That, or you might need to tweak your dish. I'm still getting 100s on 25 & 31, but it's not raining at the moment... only cloudy.

Arxaw,

How often do you get rainfade? I have been with D* for about a month and have the Phase III dish. I have signal strength in the mid-90's on 101 and all 100's on 119 except for 23 and 29.

It seems like I am losing signal everytime it rains. Last night I lost all channels (0 on all transponders) from about 7:00 to 7:15. It was pouring down though and when it slacked up, the signal returned. Maybe it is the same as when I had E*, but it seems like a lot. It has rained a lot however.

I am getting 100's on transponders 22,27,30 & 32.....

Shaneotool-I have been able to get a lock on abc at times with amplified bunny ears in hot springs, one night I was able to watch the 10:00 news and raymond on the digital channel, when usually I never get a lock. If you were to adjust your antenna, you may have a real good chance of locking in on it.

Originally posted by nj829
Shaneotool-I have been able to get a lock on abc at times with amplified bunny ears in hot springs, one night I was able to watch the 10:00 news and raymond on the digital channel, when usually I never get a lock. If you were to adjust your antenna, you may have a real good chance of locking in on it. Shaneotool,
KATV uses a low power UHF transmitter coupled to a directional antenna in Redfield, aimed W/NW, mainly for the WLR crowd. There are people in downtown LR/NLR that can't get KATV-DT OTA. The engineers at KTHV at 8th & Izard Sts. tell me they can't even receive it with their outdoor antenna. It's doubtful the signal would reach to Harrison.... but hey, ya never know.... :)

Speaking of OTA, here's an interesting article on new OTA tuners from LG/Zenith. New LG TVs with built in tuners, available this summer, will have the multipath problems licked, allowing reception with simple indoor antennas and no precise aiming.
ARTICLE (http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/06-08-2004/0002189302&EDATE=)

arxaw-

Has AETN come in any better for you? I tried emailing them from their website to ask about the Arkdelphia transmitter, but it bounced back, do you have any contacts there. (Shaneotool is in Hot Springs by the way, Arkie is in Harrison, who on the best atmospheric day possible shouldn't be able to receive KATV)

Also, have you checked on Little Rock locals on D*? Just curious how they look.

KTHV can't pick up the low power stations because we receive using directional from Shinall. Even then we don't receive KARK well, also not seeing AETN yet.

A few more kilowatts from those transmitters would be nice.

rpqueen
is this Ron Purtle?

rpqueen-Is KTHV going to boost their power any? I ask in regards to the posting from Harrison who he thought the power was near 70%..

70% power. exceeds the analog coverage area and is being received well outside of grade "B".

Digital transmission, 520 meters above avg terrain. VHF...

All hard to beat

I have never even seen a 'blip' on the signal meter from any station other than KTHV, who I can occasionally get...... still not consistant....

For what it's worth, I always get a 'watchable' picture from KTHV analog.

If it matters much, my elevation here in the Ozarks is 1,400 feet......

Thank you for the clarification rpqueen! It is always much appreciated when someone directly affiliated with a station is available for information.

I'm seeing what arkie said above; this taken from woopig.net:

"DirecTV now has LR local channels
« on: Today at 08:34:29am »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Free for 60 days, then $3 per month thereafter. You must have the new multidish system. Channels are on their actual channel number (KATV -7, KARK - 4, etc)."

Hmm - wonder if them saying must have multidish means they would come in, in HDTV?

Don't hold your breath!

Originally posted by Azanon
... Hmm - wonder if them saying must have multidish means they would come in, in HDTV? No, DirecTV has no HD locals via satellite. With current MPEG2 compression, they just don't have the bandwidth for local HD. For the forseeable future, you'll still need an OTA antenna for local HD.

The LR locals are on the new DirecTV 7s satellite, located at the 119° orbital position, instead of the main sats' 101° slot. An 18x20" multisat dish and "multi-sat capable" STB are required to pick up the 101° & 119° sats. Existing D* customers needing to upgrade can call DirecTV Customer Retention at 800 600-8977. If you ask nicely, they'll schedule an equipment upgrade at no charge.

Originally posted by nj829
... Has AETN come in any better for you? I tried emailing them from their website to ask about the Arkdelphia transmitter, but it bounced back, do you have any contacts there.

Also, have you checked on Little Rock locals on D*? Just curious how they look. nj829,
AETN.....!!! After mucking with my large lowband VHF roof antenna + VHF preamp and getting nothing but dropouts, I gave up on that antenna. It must be in a dead spot for channel 5.

Next I tried a homemade ½-wave dipole antenna I had previously made specifically for KTHV-DT channel 12. It's basically 2 coat hanger wires, cut to ½ the wavelength of channel 12. The two wires are screwed to a small block of wood with a 300-75 ohm balun and short coax attached to the VHF input of a CM 7777 V/U preamp. I stuck it up in the attic and it LOCKED onto KETS-DT's 1kW signal at a rock steady 69%. No dropouts at all, except during lightning or when the dishwasher is cycling. Lowband VHF (chs 2-6) digital channels seem to suffer from impulse noise much worse than highband VHF or UHF.

AETN has promised to pass PBS-HD programs in HD, but so far, all I've seen is 4 sub channels of SD programming. Perhaps they haven't gotten all their HD stuff up & running yet. There is also no PSIP program info yet, just the station ID and sub channel number.

Here is some AETN contact info (http://www.nationaloutreach.org/PublicBroadcastingWorld/OutreachMap/station_specifics.cfm?station_id=134&state=AR#specifics).

WRT the standard def. locals on D*, I don't qualify for them. My D* service address is in a "white area" .... I've heard the locals look overly compressed and a bit soft.

Originally posted by rpqueen
... Even then we don't receive KARK well, also not seeing AETN yet.
A few more kilowatts from those transmitters would be nice. rpqueen,
Welcome to the forum!

Don't forget KATV. At one point, I heard the downtown KATV studio couldn't even receive its own OTA signal. A few more kilowatts from all of these low power stations would end a lot of DTV frustration.

But you don't really expect that from Nexstar or Allbritton, do you? :(

Only your station, 16 & 38 seem to care about transmitting a decent DTV signal, and it is appreciated.

Originally posted by arxaw
WRT the standard def. locals on D*, I don't qualify for them. My D* service address is in a "white area" .... I've heard the locals look overly compressed and a bit soft.

The locals for D* came online yesterday. They look really good compared to all other programming on D*. They look as good as the national networks IMHO.

A high-quality OTA analog signal would still be superior, but the locals are much better than Comcast. My only complaint would be KATV. It is soft and a tad bit washed out. I know it looks the worst of the E* LR locals as well. It seems that the number one station in the market could kick in some money to updrade their transmission equipment.

Originally posted by Tusk
... My only complaint would be KATV. It is soft and a tad bit washed out. I know it looks the worst of the E* LR locals as well. It seems that the number one station..... As long as I can remember, KATV OTA analog has always looked a tad blurry and washed out.

As for "the number one station" to each his own, but I couldn't disagree more. ABC has little programming of interest to me, and KATV's local news is too, uh, stuffy.....

Originally posted by arxaw
As long as I can remember, KATV OTA analog has always looked a tad blurry and washed out.

As for "the number one station" to each his own, but I couldn't disagree more. ABC has little programming of interest to me, and KATV's local news is too, uh, stuffy.....

I don't watch any ABC programming, aside from MNF. KATV always ranks number one in news and other rating measures for the LR market. That's all I meant. If you are consistently ranking number one, I think you would take more pride in your station. I guess they might say we're number one the way we have always done things. Who cares about spending more money.

Of course KARK is consistently last and continue to prove they could care less about improving the station.

Originally posted by Tusk
... If you are consistently ranking number one, I think you would take more pride in your station...Actually, they aren't consistently number one. KTHV is number one in morning and 10pm news ratings.

... Of course KARK is consistently last and continue to prove they could care less about improving the station... [/B]It's their owner, Nexstar (http://nexstar.tv/) that doesn't give a s**t about quality or serving the public interest of the Little Rock market. They are only in it for the money.

Nexstar thoughts as repeated by me: "But it just costs so much to put up a digital signal, and poor little KARK doesn't want to invest in something that limited people will receive and besides, the only show that is on NBC is 15 versions of Law and order and it just costs so much to put up a digital signal, those jerks at the fcc don't know what they are talking about....making us poor little stations spend money on new transmitters. we are actually mad about NOT doing a better transmitter so we can charge more money by multicasting QVC...." ***not official statement, just a generalization......

You can bet Nexstar/KARK will upgrade to full power when USDTV (http://www.usdtv.com/) (or similar OTA multicast pay service) comes calling, looking for bandwidth. They'll probably continue to send out one 480i SD signal free and put HD on one of the MPEG4 multicasts on USDTV's pay tier.

Based on reviewing the FCC website, this is the information that I found. Forgive the formatting, but I have no idea how to make columns. The first number is the current operating level and the second number is the level at which the license was issued.

Operating Licensed

KETS 1 kW 2.1 kW
KARK 4 kW 989 kW
KATV 10 kW 750 kW
KTHV 27.5 kW 55 kW
KLRT 1,000 kW 1,000 kW
KASN 1,000 kW 1,000 kW
KVTN 10 kW 725 kW


What I am wondering is the differences between the total power output that the stations are licensed for? Is KTHV at 55kW significantly less that everyone else because of VHF compared to UHF? Why would KATV license 750 kW compared to the other UHF stations at 1,000 kW?

Also, why would a station choose to broadcast such a weak signal compared to licensed output when other stations such as KLRT and KASN are using full power. I assume it saves electricity or did the station install a smaller transmitter than would normally be used to save money on equipment.

Just curious. FWIW, KARK and KATV are pathetic with their current power levels. Also, if everyone ever begins using full power, obtaining signal should not be a problem.

KLRT-DT is currently experiencing macro blocking. The main HVAC system at the transmitter site has been a problem for the last couple of days causing both the main and standby exciter in the digital transmitter to lose lock. The backup HVAC system is not adequate to cool the digital transmitter on hot days. The HVAC contractor is aware of the problem and is working on repairing the unit.

Allen

allen,
Thanks for the heads up. I knew something was wrong, since my signal strength (as always for your stations) was at 100%.

I wish KARK would get off their duff and fix their DTV signal. They just don't give a s*** over there.

Originally posted by Tusk
Operating Licensed

KETS 1 kW 2.1 kW
KARK 4 kW 989 kW
KATV 10 kW 750 kW
KTHV 27.5 kW 55 kW
KLRT 1,000 kW 1,000 kW
KASN 1,000 kW 1,000 kW
KVTN 10 kW 725 kW


What I am wondering is the differences between the total power output that the stations are licensed for? Is KTHV at 55kW significantly less that everyone else because of VHF compared to UHF? Why would KATV license 750 kW compared to the other UHF stations at 1,000 kW?

Also, why would a station choose to broadcast such a weak signal compared to licensed output when other stations such as KLRT and KASN are using full power. I assume it saves electricity or did the station install a smaller transmitter than would normally be used to save money on equipment.

Just curious. FWIW, KARK and KATV are pathetic with their current power levels. Also, if everyone ever begins using full power, obtaining signal should not be a problem. Very general rules of thumb:
• 8VSB digital broadcasts need much less power than NTSC analog to cover the same area.
• The lower the channel number, the less power needed.
• VHF needs much less power than UHF to cover the same area.
• Lowband VHF (chs 2-6) need less power than highband VHF (chs 7-13).

Some stations are broadcasting a piss-poor weak and/or SD-only signal because their owners don't give a damn about digital TV. They assume everyone is content to watch non-HD on cable or satellite. Some stations only broadcast digitally at all because the FCC made them broadcast digitally (due to the NAB/broadcasters' original request for HDTV!)

And yes, it saves considerable money on power bills each month to send out a low power signal. It also saves significantly on A/C costs to cool a low power vs a high power transmitter site.

Send specific station complaints regarding low power/short tower OTA DTV reception problems to:

Rick Chessen, FCC DTV Task Force Chair
rchessen@fcc.gov
tel: 202 418-2602

Or,
Susan Mort:
smort@fcc.gov
tel: 202 418-7200

The HVAC at the KLRT transmitter site has been repaired. It will take a few days to trim out the exciters for proper operation. You should already be noticing a much more stable signal.

Allen

Thanks allen.

Yes, the picture is much improved.... :)

Allen,


Is KLRT on track to have the slicers set up before football season? Got any timetable before KLRT goes HD?

>Allen,
>
>
>Is KLRT on track to have the slicers set up before football season? Got >any timetable before KLRT goes HD?

Yes we are on track and no later then the fall sports and programming season.

Allen,

Thanks, that is what I thought. We appreciate the effort and commitment from you and your team at 16 & 38. It doesn't go unnoticed.

Originally posted by allenf
... we are on track and [HD] no later then the fall sports and programming season. Will you be switching from 1080i to 720p ?

We will be in 720p.

A few days ago dlott was asking why the differences in power levels between stations. Sam gave a good technical explanation. Let me fill in the behind the scenes scenarios. There are basically 4 schools of thought among broadcasters.

So what the heck. I'll bite. These are my opinions and mine alone. They in no way are meant to reflect upon any particular broadcaster or my group's positions. These are my observations as a broadcast engineer for over 20 years.

That said, here are the major schools of thought as I see them:

1) Ignore DTV and it will go away. This is the line of reasoning that goes along the lines of the average Joe will never invest more then the absolute minimum in a TV. Joe will raise heck when he figures out his TV won't work after 2006 and lean on the politicians. DTV will sort of fade away.

2) VHF stations that drew UHF allocations. Invest the absolute minimum UHF plant and when and if NTSC goes away, choose the VHF allocation for their DTV signal. VHF stations as a group are scared silly over the thought of the power levels, cost and technical learning curve needed to run a full powered UHF transmitter.


3) Aggressively cost conscience stations/groups. They know that at some point they'll have to up power and build out. But today, gotta satisfy the stock holders. Maximize the return for them.

4) A few groups realize that for better or worse they have to make the best of the current situation and their future lies with their DTV facility.


Happily, my group is in number 4 above. Even so, there was a major debate to go maximized across the group. I hope this answers dlott's questions. Again, take this for what it is worth, my opinion only.



Allen

Allen,
Excellent post.

Also, thanks for the 720p info.

Thanks for the reply Allen. That was very informative.

What is the current scheduled date for NTSC to go away? I think this date has been moved several times.

Didn't they decide to use the "85%" rule, instead of a fixed date?

I am watching LR locals for the first time in a long while now that DirecTV is carrying them. I have been watching KTHV and KATV in HD on Comcast. (I know, I can get them for free if I bought a tuner. I am waiting to buy the HD Tivo.)

Anyway, I noticed that on the analog channels, there is seldom a day that goes by that 1/4 of the screen is not taken up by the state of Arkansas indicating a thuderstorm watch somewhere in the state. This is mainly venting, but these warnings are idiotic.

I know that basically they want you to see the warning, then tune into their newscasts to watch their super duper live view futurecast X45 extreme doppler forecasts. But a thunderstorm watch? Or a flood warning? They are basically covering a lot of the programming viewing area to tell us there is a chance of rain.

And even more ridiculous, one night all of the stations had their huge warnings up and the only county colored in was Benton county in NW Ark. They don't even receive our stations. I guess on the off chance you have a relative in Rogers, you could call them and tell them that it might be raining there.

KLRT and KASN are the worst. The text of the warnings are at the top which means that they almost reach into the center of the picture. It's always enjoyable to watch someones face who has the word watch stuck in their nose.

Stick to Tornadoes. That's when we need to seek shelter.

Sorry to rant. I just needed to get it off my chest.

On the subject of wx warnings. You should email the news director Michael Fabac and the General Manager Chuck Spohn with your observations and opionions. Viewer feedback on such things is taken seriously. To date they have been getting many positive emails and calls on the subject.

michaelfabac@clearchannel.com
chuckspohn@clearchannel.com

Wow, I just re-read Tusk's post re transmitter power levels. When did KATV-DT drop down to broadcasting at 10kW (~1/3 of their previously low power level of 30kW)? I guess that explains why their signal is not as strong as it used to be.....

Allbritton corp. sucks.

Well, I finally was able to order the HD TiVo through Circuit City and got it hooked up last night. I don't currently have an antenna mounted outside or inside so I grabbed a 10 year old combo rabbit ears, loop antenna. After hooking it up, I was getting KLRT 16-1 at 90 peak, KTHV 11-1 and 11-2 at 87 peak and KARK 4-1 at 83 peak. Not bad considering.

I had no signal at all on any of the other digital stations. I ordered the CM 4221 from Warren Electronics and plan on trying that without the amp. The determining factor will be how well KATV comes in for whether I will need to add one.

I noticed last night that Everybody Loves Raymond came in perfect, but the next show with Charlie Sheen as well as CSI: Miami had terrible audio problems. The picture was perfect but the audio was all jumbled. Was this the station or my equipment. This morning, the morning show was working fine.

Fox looked great even without broadcasting in HD yet. NBC looked no better than my SD satellite signal. Anyway, it's exciting to be a part of this thread rather than looking forward to OTA digital.

BTW, Discovery HD, HDNet movies, HDNet and HBO HD looked fantastic. I wasn't as impressed with Showtime HD.

Tusk,
Congrats on the HD DirecTivo.

What you saw on Showtime-HD [i]may have only been an upconvert. They do a lot of movies that are not HD. Some are just SD versions upconverted to 1080i.

I didn't watch KTHV-DT last night, but they have been working on the audio lately. One problem they are currently working on is the dialog isn't coming from the center channel on HD programs. It only "centers" on non-HD stuff....

Whenever you have video/audio problems: Pull up the signal strength meter and see if the signal's steady and reasonably strong. If so, it's usually a station problem.

You're lucky to get KARK-DT, since they're at such low power. Of course, they're only 480i, so no better than the analog on OTA or satellite. KATV's pretty weak too, and their distance from LR doesn't help.

Can you get PBS - KETS-DT? They're broadcasting 4 multicasts on RF channel 5, and remapped to subchannels:
2-1
2-2
2-3
2-4
Their signal strength may be too low for you to pick it up indoors, and the CM 4221 won't likely get their lowband VHF station, either. Please post back with how well your 4221 works. --Sam

ps: What's your ZIP Code?

I looked on Showtime's website and the shows that I saw parts of are listed as Widescreen OAR HDTV, not upconverts. I thought the pictures were a tad bit grainy compared to HBO and the other HD channels. I thought HBO looked awesome.

I kept checking my signal strength when I was having problems with KTHV and the strength was a constant 85-85 reading, so I bet the issue was with the station and not the receiver. KLRT had a constant strength around 88 at the same time and I had no problems with it.

My zip is 72223. I mentioned earlier in the thread that I can see the towers on Shinall mountain from my driveway. I am less than a mile from the towers I bet. That's why I can get 4, 11, and 16 with a set top antenna. Hopefully the 4221 will bring in the Redfield stations without overloading the closer stations.

I didn't think to look specifically for KETS since it wasn't automatically listed in the guide, but I did an off-air scan and it did not pick it up.

Would you think I would get good strength for KTHV with the 4221 (being that it is a UHF antenna) and no rabbit ears? That will definitely be the channel I watch the most.

The 4221, although designed for UHF, will usually work just fine for upper or "highband" VHF channels 7 thru 13. It's the lowband VHFs on 2-6 that it won't usually pick up.

At your distance from the xmitters, I wouldn't worry about KTHV-DT being on VHF channel 12. I get it fine with a 4221 several miles to the East.

From Mediaweek programming insider

TV Tidbits:
Notes of Interest

-Smallville on HDNet:
High definition cable network HDNet has acquired the first-run HD rights to WB drama Smallville from Warner Bros. Domestic Cable Distribution. Debuting this September, Smallville will be the first current broadcast series to debut on HDNet.

If you watch Smallville, this is good news since no one knows the status of KWBF.

Originally posted by Tusk
... If you watch Smallville, this is good news since no one knows the status of KWBF. I don't think KWBF even knows their status. They don't seem to care enough to reply to emails lately.....

I know I will get the standard reply, but here is my effort:

Dear Mr. Chester,

I am a viewer in the Little Rock market and have a few comments that I hope you will consider.

I pulled this information from the NBC Olympics website:

For the first time by a U.S. broadcaster at a Summer Olympics, NBC will provide high definition coverage. NBC's separate, unique HDTV coverage on NBC's digital affiliates, presented by Sony Electronics Inc., will provide HDTV coverage on delay of six sports from the only main Olympic venues provided in high definition by the Olympic host broadcaster. Those sports include swimming, diving, gymnastics, track and field, medal rounds of basketball and the men's soccer gold medal final. The HDTV coverage will total 399 hours and is a completely different production from the standard definition broadcast on the network. NBC has 124 HDTV affiliates with the potential to cover 86 percent of the country.

Unfortunately for the viewers in Little Rock, America's 56th largest market, we will be unable to enjoy any of this high quality HD programming that NBC is pleased to be promoting.

I understand economics and the desire for companies to return the highest profit to its investors as possible, but your station is quickly being left behind considering that KATV, KTHV and KASN are broadcasting programming in HD and KLRT will be prepared for HD when Fox transitions over the next few months. Also, KETS is in the process of getting their system up and running.

It appears that KARK, KWBF and KYPX will occupy last place together in our market. Hopefully Nexstar will consider spending the resources to meet the needs of its viewers and make KARK a top station in Little Rock. Evidently they have the money judging by your new accommodations downtown.

Please do not dismiss the concerns of a subset of your viewers who long for NBC programming and the Olympics in HD.

Thank you for your time

QUOTE]Originally posted by Tusk
Well, I finally was able to order the HD TiVo through Circuit City and got it hooked up last night. . [/QUOTE]
Congratulations Tusk :) I know you will enjoy your HD TiVo. I sure enjoy mine. I am using a 4221 and a CM 7777 preamp with a Model 9521 rotator and have been able to pickup all the LR locals without any problems from Otter Creek. From my location the rotator is essential to get all the stations. It takes a little preplanning to set up Season Passes for the LR locals but due to the fact that I boycott KARK and the fact that until college football season starts there is not much of interest to me on KATV I can leave it in a default position that gets KTHV and KLRT without having to reposition the antenna. The shows I like to watch of KETS are repeated at 1 AM so I can reposition the antenna before I go to bed and the HD TiVo grabs them while I am asleep.

dlott,
Are you picking up KETS-DT with the 4221?
Does the HD DirecTivo show the programs for all four KETS-DT sub channels (2-1 thru 2-4)?

Originally posted by arxaw
dlott,
Are you picking up KETS-DT with the 4221?
Does the HD DirecTivo show the programs for all four KETS-DT sub channels (2-1 thru 2-4)?
I have a Channel Master 3016 (yagi) combined at the preamp for KETS-DT. Didn't see any way to get KETS-DT at the power they were broadcasting at without it. It works well. No, the HD TiVo doesn't show the programs for the KETS-DT sub channels. Fortunately, I have DirecTV and it does show the guide data for channel 2 since DirecTV remaps the locals to their VHF channel number. I have set up a Season Pass with a manual recording for the 3 shows I am interested in (Nova, Frontline, and Arkansas Week) on 2-1.

I have D* too, and also only get the guide for analog 2. When I choose "NO DISH" in setup, my STB looks for PSIP (instead downloading the D* guide), and finds no program info for KETS-DT :(

My biggest problem with KETS-DT is macroblocking and intermittent loss of audio. I think it's due to their terribly low power level and lowband VHF channel assignment. It's often unwatchable, even though my signal strength is very stable. Very similar to the problems I used to have with KTHV when they started out at very low power levels.

To all on this thread:

Please post your reception results (good, bad, intermitent) for PBS/AETN/KETS-DT in Little Rock area.

I can not reliably watch them due to intermittent macroblocking and audio drops. Signal strength is a rock-steady 69%.

Loss of audio is particularly annoying!

What VHF antenna are you using arxaw? Are they easy to combine on a mounting pole with the 4221?

I would like to have the most stable setup to receive my all of the digital channels. I have the 4221 on the way. I thought I would try it without the amp but I may add it. What do you guys get for KASN and KATV with your 4221 and 7777?

Thanks

Originally posted by Tusk
What VHF antenna are you using arxaw? Are they easy to combine on a mounting pole with the 4221?

I would like to have the most stable setup to receive my all of the digital channels. I have the 4221 on the way. I thought I would try it without the amp but I may add it. What do you guys get for KASN and KATV with your 4221 and 7777?

I have tried several antennas for KETS-DT, ranging from a made for channel 5 special antenna to a homeade one from coat hanger wire. I get a solid 69% on KETS-DT, but get annoying A/V dropouts & pixelization.

Other channels I get fine with a CM 4221 + CM 7777 preamp.
Current signal strengths are:
KARK-DT 93%
KATV-DT 100%
KTHV-DT 100%
KLRT-DT 100%
KASN-DT 100%

IF anyone else on this thread is having KETS-DT reception problems, please let them know what problems you are having. Send reception reports to:
Tony Brooks (tbrooks@aetn.org), AETN Deputy Director

I read on another forum that Fox would begin testing HD by broadcasting the MLB All-Star game on July 13. (Affiliates that are prepared can carry it)

Allen, does KLRT plan on carrying this HD programming. Will you guys be ready by then?

Originally posted by Tusk
What VHF antenna are you using arxaw? Are they easy to combine on a mounting pole with the 4221? Any lowband (chs 2 thru 6) VHF or made-for-channel-5 antenna should work.
Examples HERE (http://www.dishplace.com/default.php/cPath/1_3_110?osCsid=409e47557852af496dd49c71e84c732e), and also more at:
http://www.starkelectronic.com/delhi.htm
http://www.starkelectronic.com/btp1.htm

I installed the CM 4221 on the top of the mast and the VHF below it. Both are run to their respective inputs on the CM 7777 preamp. The "Combined/Separate" switch inside the 7777 must be changed to "SEPARATE" when using separate VHF & UHF antennas.

I am in Conway, 72034, and can only pick up KTHV 11 with the Stealthtenna that Voom supplies. I would like to be able to pick up all the digital channels possible. What would be the best set up to do this?

>I read on another forum that Fox would begin testing HD by broadcasting >the MLB All-Star game on July 13. (Affiliates that are prepared can carry it)
>
>Allen, does KLRT plan on carrying this HD programming. Will you guys be >ready by then?

I don't think we will make it by then. Some feedline for the new FOX dish was damaged in shipment. This caused us to lose our installation slots. FOX and their contractor are working us in as they can spare crews. We have been assured will make the fall rollout, but I don't have a firm date for the completion of the install this summer.

Originally posted by tmilam
I am in Conway, 72034, and can only pick up KTHV 11 with the Stealthtenna that Voom supplies. I would like to be able to pick up all the digital channels possible. What would be the best set up to do this? tmilam,
The Stealthtenna is more suited for urban/suburban use. You need a better antenna, like a Channel Master CM 4221 or 4228 (http://www.warrenelectronics.com/Antennas/Chmaster_ant.htm). Most people in Conway also add a low noise preamp like the CM 7777 (http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/spring_special.htm). Both 4221 & 4228 are designed for UHF, but usually also pick up higher VHF chs 7 thru 13 (like KTHV-DT). They would *not* work well for KETS-DT on ch 5, but their transmitter is too weak for even most people in LR to pick up - I'd forget trying to get it.

Enter your address at: http://antennaweb.org/
When the channel list appears, click View Street Level Map to see which direction to aim the antenna.

The 4221 is the weaker ot these 2 antennas, but it requires less precise aiming than the 4228. You could probably aim the 4221 "in the middle" of the 2 transmitter directions and get most of the stations. The 4228 is a more powerful antenna, but also requires precise aiming, so a rotor may be required to get both the Shinall & Redfield stations.

I would install the antenna & preamp on as tall a mast as possible, and separate from the satellite dish, of course. If your current OTA antenna signal is diplexed onto the same coax as the satellite, I would run a new separate RG6 coax for the OTA antenna and preamp.

Antenna installation is an untapped market for Little Rock. I dont see any companies in the yellow pages that specifically say they do home outdoor antenna installs. I would think with the rising popularity of HDTV's, there's at least enough market for one company to tap this.

I know i'd be first on the list if I could find somone that i trusted.

I went to the www.antennaweb.org site and it instructed me that I needed a medium directional antenna. One such antenna that I located was a Winegard 7015A with a CM 7777 preamp. I'm interested in getting all the L.R. channels, so is the CM 4221 or 4228 better than these listed for that purpose? I'm more than interested to find someone that could install it professionally. I agree that this is untapped market.

tmilam,
Unless you're on a mountain, you won't get low powered KETS-DT (PBS) out of Redfield. I'm on a hill in LR and have trouble receiving it without dropouts. Many of the people on this board living in LR report they can't get KETS-DT.

So.... I would choose the 4221 or 4228, as they are dedicated UHF antennas that will also usually work for KTHV-DT - which is the only VHF digital you'll likely be able to receive. The rest of the digital channels are UHF. I would also add the CM 7777 preamp.

Both the 4221 and 4228 have their advantages and disadvantages. If you want a stronger signal, go with the 4228. Drawback: The 4228 is more directional. Depending on your location, you may have to use a rotor on the 4228 and move it when you flip between Shinall stations (KARK, KTHV, KLRT) & Redfield stations (KATV & KASN). The 4221 has less gain, but receives stations over a wider beamwidth than the 4228.

On the Street Level Map for your address at antennaweb.org, roughly how many degrees apart are Shinall & Redfield on the map?
In what color band(s) are the digital stations listed for your address?

Originally posted by jstrossner
... I had about the same luck with reception before I got a Channelmaster 7777 amplifier. I have a Televes antenna with the amp running into a Voom receiver and get 4,7,11,16,and 38. 25 is just too weak and I'm waiting for PBS.jstrossner,
Have you tried pointing the Televes at Mtn. View to get KEMV-DT (PBS)?

Also, do you have to use a rotor to get the Shinall & Redfield stations, or is your Televes fixed?

Sam,

I have my Televes fixed between Shinall & Redfield. It's Uhf only, so no luck on PBS.

Jeff

The difference in degrees is approximately 20-24 degrees between the Chenal and Redfield towers. The colors are red, blue, and violet. Jstrossner--what type of antenna is the Televes--bowtie or directional?

Originally posted by jstrossner
I have my Televes fixed between Shinall & Redfield. It's Uhf only, so no luck on PBS.I don't think you could get KETS-DT in Conway even with one of these antennas (http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/y1026.htm) :(

tmilam,
The CM 4228 is an 8bay bowtie that is high gain and very directional
(Higher gain = more directionality).

jstrossner,
I know that both the CM 4228 8bay bowtie and the Televes DAT75 both have fairly narrow beam spreads. Do you think the 4228 would work pointed "in the middle" where tmilam lives?

Tmilam--The Televes is directional.
http://www.televes.com/ingles/noticias/pdf/1097.pdf


Arxaw--I thought about a separate Vhf antenna for PBS but decided it wasn't worth it. I would think that the 4228 would have a very good chance of working for Tmilam. A co-worker who lives in Plumerville (~ 15 miles west of Conway) has a 4228 and gets all digitals (except 5 and 25). He had to get the 7777 amp to pull in ABC.

The 4228 sounds promising. I'm just wondering how to mount it and wire it. Jstrossner--do you have your OTA antenna wired thru a diplexer with the satellite feed or do you have it wired directly to the Voom receiver?

Tmilam-- I have the OTA wired directly into the Voom receiver.

tmilam,
If not done exactly right, using a diplexor and powered antenna preamp on the same coax may damage the preamp and/or the satellite equipment. Signal strengths may also be reduced. Diplexors also make trouble diagnosis more complex if you have OTA or satellite problems down the road.

Run a separate outdoor grade RG6 coax to the antenna in this order:
STB ANT-IN > power supply for preamp > Coax GROUNDING BLOCK > preamp > antenna.

Install the antenna on as high a mast as possible, preferably with no thick trees directly in front of the antenna. On the 4228, the "bowties" face the direction of the transmitters. The wire mesh screen is the "back" of the antenna. The purpose of the screen is to block unwanted reflected signals from reaching the antenna.

IMPORTANT:
Ground both the coax grounding block and the antenna mast to your home's main power service ground, using solid ground wire as large or larger gauge as recommended in the instructions that come with the antenna.

thanx alot arxaw.

Hey, guys - hope you don't mind a couple questions that are probably found somewhere in the 32 previous pages. ;)

I live in North Carolina, but my parents live in Little Rock (I grew up there). Anyway, they just got their first HDTV today and they are pretty clueless. So, I have a few questions for you guys ...

1. I looked up their address on antennaweb - it seems like the stations are pretty much all spread out. They live in West Little Rock (Pleasant Valley) -
a. anyone near there have much luck OTA?
b. What antenna do you use?
c. Do you use a rotor?
d. Which channels are availabe in HD and which are just digital?

2. What channels are available on Comcast locally?

a. is there an HD tier? extra cost?
b. how much does it cost over all?


3. Has anyone had any luck using a QAM tuner? Is Comcast sending out any HD channels unencrypted?

Thanks VERY much!!!

Originally posted by deArgila
... my parents live in Little Rock...

1. I looked up their address on antennaweb - it seems like the stations are pretty much all spread out. They live in West Little Rock (Pleasant Valley) -
a. anyone near there have much luck OTA?
b. What antenna do you use?
c. Do you use a rotor?
d. Which channels are availabe in HD and which are just digital?Having transmitters in (mostly) 2 different directions and some very low power stations makes reception tricky in some parts of hilly Little Rock.

I am currently using two antennas. For all but one channel, I'm using a CM 4221 UHF antenna + CM 7777 preamp, this antenna is pretty good for picking up stations "off axis", so it works well in parts of LR. For me, it receives these digital channels:
12 (KTHV-DT 11-1 - CBS) VHF 27kW ERP HDTV
22 (KATV-DT 7-1 - ABC) UHF 10kW ERP HDTV
30 (KLRT-DT 16-1 - FOX) UHF 1,000kW ERP HDTV, as soon as FOX starts HD
32 (KARK-DT 4-1 - NBC) UHF 4kW ERP SDTV
39 (KASN-DT 38-1 - UPN) UHF 1,000kW ERP HDTV

PBS (KETS-DT) is on channel 5 in the VHF lowband, so I have to use an A/B switch and change to a home made lowband VHF antenna when I want to watch PBS. KETS-DT is NOT yet HD (4 pixely SD sub channels), very low power ~1kW ERP and difficult to impossible for most in the LR area to receive. Being on a hill helps me, but since they're in the lowband VHF and ridiculously low power, I get impulse noise interference from nearby things "electrical", like motors, light switches, etc :-( I'm very disappointed in KETS reception.
2. What channels are available on Comcast locally?

a. is there an HD tier? extra cost?
b. how much does it cost over all?Comscat currently only carries two OTA LR digital channels CBS & ABC. AFAIK, they are the only channels you can receive "in the clear" using a QAM tuner on cable, without renting the cableco's HD STB.

To rent the HD box, you have to subscribe to at least the basic digital package and the HD package, which includes the 2 OTA channels mentioned, plus ESPN, INHD and Discovery. If you subscribe to premium channels like HBO, you get HD versions of those channels, too.

I'm not familiar with the breakdown in comscat's rates, but a friend of mine pays ~$72/month for:
1 HD box for analog/digital basic and the HD tier.
2 extra TVs that only get basic analog channels.
No premium channels like HBO, SHO, etc.....

He hates the cost, but since he lives in an area surrounded by hills, he has no other way to get ABC & CBS HD until the OTA channels increase their power.

arxaw - thanks very much! That's very helpful.

Does anyone here use VOOM? That's what I have here and I'd like to recommend to my parents if possible.

Hey arxaw, I need some help.

I installed the CM4221 today with no pre-amp to see what the strengths would look like.

Rabbit ears and loop antenna:

KTHV 88
KLRT 92
KARK 80
KATV 20 solid
KASN 16 solid

CM4221 no pre-amp:

KTHV 82
KLRT 86
KARK 15
KATV 0 - 33 with a constant jumping around in between
KASN 0 - 16 with a constant jumping around in between

Should I be getting better signal strengths with the 4221 than I am? Will a pre-amp make the difference. It seems like I might do well with a silver sensor instead given the strengths with the set top antenna. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Did you try aiming the 4221 in different directions? If so, it's very possible you installed it in a "dead spot", similar to a cellphone call that can be improved by walking a foot or two away from where you were originally talking. It's possible the indoor antenna was in a sweet spot for reception.

I would think that signal strengths would be higher, even without a preamp. But every location is different, so reception can never be predicted. A preamp will increase signal strength, but won't fix a wildly fluctuating signal. For that, you may need to move the antenna or re-aim it, including changing the vertical TILT.

Also, check your connectors on the RG6 coax and make sure the balun wires aren't shorted out.

Originally posted by Tusk
Hey arxaw, I need some help.

I installed the CM4221 today with no pre-amp to see what the strengths would look like.


Tusk,

You may need to go to a rotator. I use a CM Model 9521. I like it since it uses a remote control. It is easy to code into a universal remote. The CM4221 is not as directional as the CM4228, but with the stations being in two different locations I found that I need to aim it in the direction of the station I want. I also use the CM7777 pre-amp with mine. The draw back is with the HD TiVo you have to do a little planning ahead to make sure that antenna is pointing in the correct direction to record the next OTA recording in your To Do List.

Hey guys, thanks for all the feedback.

I don't mean to be a pain, but what do you guys think would result in getting an amplified set top antenna such as:

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?cookie%5Ftest=1&catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F007%5F001%5F001%5F000&product%5Fid=15%2D1880

I'm getting such good signal strengths with NBC, CBS, and FOX with

http://www.rca.com/product/viewdetail/0,2588,PI40-CI209,00.html?

Do you think an antenna like Radio Shack might be able to bring in KATV and KASN? Like I mentioned before, I'm getting about 20 for KATV and 16 for KASN with no amplification.

Something of interest. I get 0 on signal strength for all stations except KLRT without an antenna. With Fox I'm getting 90's.

I would audition the RatShack antenna (http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?MSCSProfile=745D84CBF04D14A48AA6FF9C89D722C0BA68 C1B04FE384678A5285FCD6E056B17AF21627FDABE316B90B3C038D68EBD6 B7F9F3BD1712EAA9951ACB2590A05C6517EFE46941FEFDD1985D4EFD6321 F5E70B4DE9B6C1D45512DCD9FB3DBCACB9472C9EF3719C4E94F3E368B893 7AD62844306D8FC6647E99BC6631742B635B694E675909A027B8F3F1&cookie%5Ftest=1&catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F007%5F001%5F001%5F000&product%5Fid=15%2D1880), since it's had at least some good reviews. And you can just return it for a refund if it doesn't work.

Another option for indoor would be the Silver Sensor, possibly available at Sears, Best Buy or Circuit City. If signal strength for KATV/KASN is low but steady, I would add a good low noise preamp to the Silver Sensor - like the CM 7777 (http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/spring_special.htm). A directional antenna like the SS may help with your fluctuating signal, probably caused by multipath or a hill in the way. The SilverSensor is very directional. Bring up the tuner's signal strength meter for KATV, then slowly move the antenna until you find a stable signal strength. You may be able to get a better signal by picking up a "bounced" signal off a hill, than by aiming directly at the direction of the transmitters in Redfield.

OTA antenna selection in Little Rock is a crap shoot at best.... :(

Sorry if this is a little off topic since it does not deal with HD, but it is very frustrating that the local cable here in Harrison (I live 3 miles from the cable line) provides both the Little Rock and Springfield locals to their customers, but DirecTV will only give us Springfield when it comes available later this year.

I get the Springfield channels fine with an antenna, and would really like to get the Little Rock news to get an Arkansas perspective on things....

I get a signal strength in the high 70's on transponder 25. Is there any chance that if a significantly viewed provision is passed in the new SHVERA that we can get LR locals up here in the hills...?

Thanks for any help or insight on this matter...........

Originally posted by arxaw
Having transmitters in (mostly) 2 different directions and some very low power stations makes reception tricky in some parts of hilly Little Rock.

I am currently using two antennas. For all but one channel, I'm using a CM 4221 UHF antenna + CM 7777 preamp, this antenna is pretty good for picking up stations "off axis", so it works well in parts of LR. For me, it receives these digital channels:
12 (KTHV-DT 11-1 - CBS) VHF 27kW ERP HDTV
22 (KATV-DT 7-1 - ABC) UHF 10kW ERP HDTV
30 (KLRT-DT 16-1 - FOX) UHF 1,000kW ERP HDTV, as soon as FOX starts HD
32 (KARK-DT 4-1 - NBC) UHF 4kW ERP SDTV
39 (KASN-DT 38-1 - UPN) UHF 1,000kW ERP HDTV

PBS (KETS-DT) is on channel 5 in the VHF lowband, so I have to use an A/B switch and change to a home made lowband VHF antenna when I want to watch PBS. KETS-DT is NOT yet HD (4 pixely SD sub channels), very low power ~1kW ERP and difficult to impossible for most in the LR area to receive. Being on a hill helps me, but since they're in the lowband VHF and ridiculously low power, I get impulse noise interference from nearby things "electrical", like motors, light switches, etc :-( I'm very disappointed in KETS reception.
Comscat currently only carries two OTA LR digital channels CBS & ABC. AFAIK, they are the only channels you can receive "in the clear" using a QAM tuner on cable, without renting the cableco's HD STB.

To rent the HD box, you have to subscribe to at least the basic digital package and the HD package, which includes the 2 OTA channels mentioned, plus ESPN, INHD and Discovery. If you subscribe to premium channels like HBO, you get HD versions of those channels, too.

I'm not familiar with the breakdown in comscat's rates, but a friend of mine pays ~$72/month for:
1 HD box for analog/digital basic and the HD tier.
2 extra TVs that only get basic analog channels.
No premium channels like HBO, SHO, etc.....

He hates the cost, but since he lives in an area surrounded by hills, he has no other way to get ABC & CBS HD until the OTA channels increase their power. Who's the moron that put kets on ch 5? The problems you are having with reception may well be due to co-channel interference with WMC and KFSM in memphis and ft. smith. You will probably have a long wait for PBS-HD; its been 4+ years ago that WLPB went on the air here in La. Only now can I get PBS-HD channel reliably. PBS-HD is great by the way,sorry you're missing out.

Arxaw, you were right about my 4221 installation. I had installed it in a dead zone. I did a temporary installation using an old satellite dish mast just to try it out last night and was getting poor reception on all channels. I went up on the roof after work and moved it a little higher and away from some vents. The peak signals I got by just holding the antenna while my wife read them off were:

KASN - 92
KATV - 92
KARK - 91

I didn't check KTHV or KLRT because I knew they would be good. I need to do a permanent install with a rat shack tripod. I'm going to try out the CM7777 because I'm running about 80 feet of cable and I bet I can get 100's across the board with the amplification.

On a side note, I was talking to the guy a radio shack about mounting options. I told him I was trying to get all the digital channels and his eyes got real wide. I could tell he was not familiar with the digital stations. He asked what antenna I was using and I said a UHF only. He told me I couldn't get KATV because they broadcast on 7. I said that their digital broadcast is 22. He asked what type of UHF and I told him a CM 4 bay. He told me that I couldn't pick up anything from Redfield with a 4 bay. He showed me the Yagi antenna (which they happened to have in stock) that would be required. I thanked him for his time and told him I would think about it. ;)

Keep in mind, UHF-only antennas may be a short-lived solution. When the analog shutdown occurs, stations can opt to move their digital broadcast back to their orignal analog signal on VHF. My understanding is that most stations intend to do this, for the same advantages VHF afforded for analog broadcasts (coverage, power, etc.).

Xesdeeni

Originally posted by Arkie
Sorry if this is a little off topic since it does not deal with HD, but it is very frustrating that the local cable here in Harrison (I live 3 miles from the cable line) provides both the Little Rock and Springfield locals to their customers, but DirecTV will only give us Springfield when it comes available later this year.

I get the Springfield channels fine with an antenna, and would really like to get the Little Rock news to get an Arkansas perspective on things....

I get a signal strength in the high 70's on transponder 25. Is there any chance that if a significantly viewed provision is passed in the new SHVERA that we can get LR locals up here in the hills...?

Thanks for any help or insight on this matter........... My parents are in the same situation. Chicot county is in the Greenville, MS DMA and they aren't eligible for LR locals via DirecTV. The local cable company provides both sets of locals. Same for my in-laws in Ashley county except they are in the El Dorado/Monroe, LA DMA. I've suggested that they both "move" a few miles to Drew county so they can get LR locals.

Last I read, there should be a new provision to put satellite and cable on the same set of rules when it comes to locals. And yes, with a signal strength in the high 70's, you should be able to get LR stations. You may have some rain fade but it shouldn't be bad.

-Robert

Originally posted by Arkie
... I get the Springfield channels fine with an antenna, and would really like to get the Little Rock news to get an Arkansas perspective on things....
I get a signal strength in the high 70's on transponder 25...Arkie,
Check your PM...

Originally posted by phitz
Who's the moron that put kets on ch 5? The problems you are having with reception may well be due to co-channel interference with WMC and KFSM in memphis and ft. smith. You will probably have a long wait for PBS-HD...The morons are at AETN. They originally were assigned UHF channels, but in the case of every Arkansas transmitter but one, they went to local LPTV stations and begged for a channel swap to get VHF channels, so they could xmit at lower power. In the LR area, they did a channel swap with a LPTV translator in Sheridan (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=24263), which traded them channel 5 for channel 47 - the KETS-DT original channel assignment (http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=100499777&formid=340&fac_num=2770).

Result: KETS-DT went digital on the cheap, and most people in LR can't get KETS-DT, at least not reliably enough to abandon analog.

You are correct about the interference from Ft Smith & MEM in the mornings & evenings. And late afternoons, when tropo (http://www.iprimus.ca/~hepburnw/tropo.html) & E-Skip aren't mucking with the signal, there's lowband VHF "impulse noise" interference. I think AETN was dragged kicking & screaming into the world of digital TV and they're only there "on paper" to satisfy the FCC, not their viewers.

Originally posted by Xesdeeni
Keep in mind, UHF-only antennas may be a short-lived solution. When the analog shutdown occurs, stations can opt to move their digital broadcast back to their orignal analog signal on VHF...Yes, many stations that have VHF analog / UHF digital slots will move digital over to the coveted VHF channel assignment, when analog goes dark. Stations that currently have temporary low power digital transmitters that can't be upgraded to xmit full power without significant hardware expense (KARK & KATV in LR) are almost 100% certain to go back to VHF.

No big deal though. Down the road, you can always add a dedicated VHF antenna to the same mast the UHF is on, and combine them with a V/U combiner or V/U preamp.

Or, you may need a new antenna by then anyway, if yours is outdoors. They do corrode over time....

I've only been watching the digital broadcast of KLRT for about a week now and must say that the widescreen upconvert looks great. The Jury almost looks like film HD (and is a good show by the way). I can't wait to see the HD feed when it comes online.

Is there a list anywhere of FOX shows that will be in HD this fall. Also, how many football games to the plan to broadcast in HD. CBS HD football is kind of hit or miss (some are, some aren't).

Although Allen at KLRT does a damned good job of upconverting 480 to 1080i, FOX-HD 720p should be a big improvement over the current fox-ws, especially on HD-cam stuff like SPORTS.

You might check the Programming Forum Threads (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3999523#post3999523) for upcoming FOX-HD shows.

Originally posted by Tusk

Is there a list anywhere of FOX shows that will be in HD this fall. Also, how many football games to the plan to broadcast in HD. CBS HD football is kind of hit or miss (some are, some aren't).


The best place I have found to keep up with HD programing is:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=34

What's the current purpose of 7-2? I don't have ABC up and running yet, but the program guides are identical. Why would they broadcast one channel at 720p and another at 480i? That doesn't seem to make any sense at all.

Harris setup KATV's DTV equipment to broadcast 720p on 7-1 and 480i on 7-2. The folks at that station are probably clueless as to how to shutoff 7-2. So I doubt you'll see them attempt to shut it off and allocate all the bandwidth to 7-1 HD programming. From the poor quality of it, it almost looks as if it's their analog OTA broadcast being received by an antenna somewhere, then digitized and re-broadcast on 7-2.

About the only useful purpose for 7-2 in 480i right now is for people who want to stretch non-hd programs but can't, due to the limits of some tuners & TVs that can't stretch a 4:3 pillarboxed 720p signal to fill the screen.

I've heard KATV has long term plans to put a 24/7 "KATV news" loop on 7-2. So don't look for it to go away :(

dlott or arxaw,

What's KETS currently look like? Is it worth adding a VHF antenna? What are they broadcasting on the 4 subchannels?

Tusk,
Due to their low transmission power (~1kW ERP), KETS-DT ch 5 suffers from impulse noise interference in the heat of the day. Mornings & nights it possibly gets co-channel interference from WMC-5 in Memphis and KFSM-5 in Ft Smith. All of this causes frequent interruptions in audio and video. IMO, lowband VHF should be abandonded for digital TV broadcasting.

KETS-DT simulcasts four 480i subchannels of PBS programming.
2-1 is the same as analog channel 2.
2-2 thru 2-4 are various & sundry PBS programs, with 2-3 & 2-4 usually being childrens' programs like Sesame St. , etc.

When interference isn't plaguing the broadcast, the overcompression of 4 subchannels is, causing a pixelated mess during high action scenes.

IMO, KETS-DT is not worth adding a VHF antenna to receive them.

Reception is futile.....

Thanks for the info. Sorry I'm asking so many questions, but digital OTA is a whole new world to me right now and I'm pretty excited about everything.

I should be getting my CM7777 in today and will be installing a tripod mount for my CM4221 this weekend. I'll let everyone know what my signals look like. I expect 100's since I was getting around 90 on KASN, KATV, and KARK over 80 feet of coax without a pre-amp. I've been reading and figure I'm losing about 5-6db of signal over the length of the run. (It's ironic that I can see KARK's tower from my house and I get the same signal as KASN and KATV who are 35 miles away.)

On a side note, when I was concerned about the reception from the 4221 the other day, I bought the silver sensor just to try out. I was able to get KASN at about 65 and KATV at about 45 (which will lock on at that strength by the way). Of course the antenna has to be in two different places to get these channels and an entirely different place for KLRT and KARK. Impressive little antenna though.

Well, the best laid plans....

I spent most of Sunday afternoon and part of Monday morning messing with this @#$% antenna. Currently, my best result with the 4221 in one position is:

KTHV 69
KLRT 89
KASN 85
KATV 83
KARK 15 (and not steady)

I have tried it with and without the amp. My best signals above are without the amp.

I am at a total loss at this point. I was getting the following with rabbit ears and a loop.

KTHV 88
KLRT 92
KARK 80

My only thought is to get an A/B switch since I can get 90 on KASN and 88 on KATV with the 4221. Either that or add a VHF antenna for KTHV.

Arxaw, you said before that you were getting 100 on all stations except KARK on which you were getting 93. What's the secret? :)

Help.

Tusk,

Depending on your location picking up all the LR digital stations can be a bit of a challenge. You almost have to live in west LR and have a bit of luck on your side because of the fact that most are broadcasting directional from different locations and at extremely low power. You may find that you cannot get all the stations leaving the antenna pointed in one direction. You may have to use a rotator . I use a CM Model 9521. I like it since it uses a remote control. It is also easy to code into a universal remote.

I have found that the HD Tivo gets slightly lower readings on signal strength than other HD receivers. That is nothing to be concerned about. I would be much more concerned if the signal was marginal or not steady. A signal that is not steady makes it almost impossible for the receiver to lock on.

Good luck :)

Dennis,

What kind of signal strengths do you get with the HD Tivo and your 4221?

Thanks.

Originally posted by Tusk
Dennis,

What kind of signal strengths do you get with the HD Tivo and your 4221?

Thanks.

Tusk,

Here is what I just recorded:

KTHV-DT 90
KLRT-DT 90
KASN-DT 92
KATV-DT 95
KARK-DT 91
KETS-DT 65
VTN-DT 61

Originally posted by Tusk
...Currently, my best result with the 4221 in one position is:

KTHV 69
KLRT 89
KASN 85
KATV 83
KARK 15 (and not steady)

I have tried it with and without the amp. My best signals above are without the amp.

Arxaw, you said before that you were getting 100 on all stations except KARK on which you were getting 93. What's the secret? :)
If you're using the CM7777 preamp, you should be getting higher signal strengths than without it. It sounds like it's connected wrong or defective.

Regardless, just like dlott said, if your signal strength is steady, the numbers for all the above (except KARK, of course) are perfectly good, and may be "max" for your tuner - some of them never show "100%" on the meter.

You may not be able to get KARK-DT without moving the antenna. Their transmitter is very low power and they have the shortest antenna of all the digital locals. You're not missing anything if you can't pick them up because they're only SDTV 480i.

Even with a VHF antenna + preamp, you may not be able to get KETS-DT at all, but they're not HDTV yet, either, so it's not worth the trouble.

It may be of interest that I am getting KLRT and KASN digital OTA here NW of Harrison tonight.

KLRT with a signal in the 60's, and KASN with a signal in the mid 80's....

Must be the weather I guess?

Yep, it is ducting season. All sorts of fun stuff can happen during a ducting event. How stable was KLRT & KASN's signal?

Allen

They were very stable, especially KASN. I watched KASN for over an hour and it was still on when I went to bed. KLRT was on as well.

They were gone this morning, but I was picking up digitals from Cape Gir..... (I can't spell it) over in SE Missouri. Over 200 miles from my house.....

I can always get a signal from KTHV-DT, however only occasionally is it srong enough so that I can watch it. KTHV analog, however, is usually watchable all the time.

I can always get KFSM-DT, KAFT-DT, and KHOG-DT from Fayetteville, even though we are not in their DMA.

Originally posted by Arkie
... I can always get a signal from KTHV-DT, however only occasionally is it srong enough so that I can watch it. That should change when they eventually up their power to 100%.

What's your elevation?

arxaw, my elevation here is approx. 1,400 feet.

:) No wonder you get such good reception :)

KLRT-DT going to 720P.


I will be changing KLRT-DT from 1080i to 720p next week. This is in preparation for the FOX HD equipment upgrades. We will still be upconverting the FOX wide-screen feed as we have been doing to 1080i for the next few weeks until the HD gear is installed. Unfortunately, I still do not have a firm time-line for the HD installation. We lost our slot in installation schedule because of some equipment damaged in shipment. Someone along the way managed to put a forklift fork through a crate! I have been speaking with FOX's subcontractor and we are in hopes they will be installing the gear in the next few weeks. I will be on vacation from July 17th through the end of the month, but this will not slow down the installation should it get scheduled while I'm gone.

Allen

Must be nice to take a vacation in a ratings period Allan!

KTHV-DT is at 100% for few days. Probably won't make much difference in Harrison, that is a little beyond our coverage area. But when your elevation is 1400 feet anything is possible!

RE: KLRT 720p

Fantastic news! The FOX upgrades for KLRT-DT are scheduled for next wednesday. We received the news late today. Stay tuned...

Alison- Nice to see you posting here.

Folks- Please welcome Alison here. She and I share many of the same views concerning HDTV and have spent time discussing the technology and business aspects. I consider her and her station to be my stations only serious competition here in the market when it comes to DTV.

Was there a problem with KTHV-DT 11-1 last night (Sunday, July 11)? I could get 11-2, and the other networks, but 11-1 kept giving me a searching for antenna error.

Also, is there a benefit to removing the screen on a 4221. It seems that KTHV, KLRT and KARK are coming in from the side of the antenna, and I was wondering if removing the screen would effect my signals any.

I watched a few minutes of CBS but flipped to WCBS-DT instead of KTHV-DT, so I don't know if 11-1 was having problems.

If some stations are coming from behind the screen, removing it may help. It may (or may not) also reduce signal strength for other stations, and could possibly increase multipath problems. Removing the screen does work for some people, so it may be worth a try. What works for one person can be a total disaster for someone at a different location.

Something else you can try is changing the vertical / tilt of the antenna. It may take some improvising, but tilt can greatly affect reception, especially if you have multipath issues.

Hey guys! We did not have any problems this weekend with 11-1 just so you'll know. However, we were running at 100%. This could have increased multipath and caused problems for some. It may be too much of a good thing! We are lowering back down to 70% for now.

Let me know if that makes a difference.....

hey alison,
Why was the power just raised for the weekend? Leaving it @ 100% would be nice for people in outlying areas :-)

Tusk, if you're using a VHF/UHF preamp, KTHV-DT may be overloading your receiver when they're up at 100% power - especially if living near Shinall mtn.

Originally posted by arxaw
hey alison,
Why was the power just raised for the weekend? Leaving it @ 100% would be nice for people in outlying areas :-)

Tusk, if you're using a VHF/UHF preamp, KTHV-DT may be overloading your receiver when they're up at 100% power - especially if living near Shinall mtn.

I need to stay at reduced power for a couple of reasons, but really what we have found is that at 65 or 70% our digital coverage exceeds the range of our analog contours. Too much signal hurts us in the LR metro area. I have found that the "data stream" coming from a high-band VHF transmitter is quite robust. If you recall we could never successfully eliminate our cable ingress problems when our analog cable channel was on 12, that is why we moved to channel 10. Viewers experienced "ingress" problems as far as 30 miles away!

So in short, I feel pretty confident of coverage at current power levels. It is new technology and we are all still learning!

Originally posted by Tusk
Was there a problem with KTHV-DT 11-1 last night (Sunday, July 11)? I could get 11-2, and the other networks, but 11-1 kept giving me a searching for antenna error.


Tusk,

I am having the same thing happen. I show a 90 reading when I check the signal strength, but get the searching for antenna error on 11-1. 11-2 comes in fine. I am at work now, but will check when I get home tonight to see if the reduction in signal strength has resolved the problem. Makes me wonder if the HD TiVo is going to be sensitive to overpowering if everyone goes to 100% power. Of course then I might be able to get rid of the pre-amp.

I don't see how the power will cause only certain bits in the same raw stream of data to be corrupted. It doesn't make sense that 11-2 would come in while 11-1 wouldn't. If there is multi-path interference, it should interfere with all streams equally.

Xesdeeni

Originally posted by dlott
Tusk,

I am having the same thing happen. I show a 90 reading when I check the signal strength, but get the searching for antenna error on 11-1. 11-2 comes in fine. I am at work now, but will check when I get home tonight to see if the reduction in signal strength has resolved the problem. Makes me wonder if the HD TiVo is going to be sensitive to overpowering if everyone goes to 100% power. Of course then I might be able to get rid of the pre-amp.

Yep, that's my exact problem. I didn't check this morning but will when I get home. I was showing 85 for strength.

Well, KTHV 11-1 is still not working. I'm showing signal around 87. All of the other stations are coming in fine including 11-2.

I rescanned off air channels and it said that 11-1 and 11-2 had been added. Of course they were already there. Tried again and still got the searching for antenna message.

Dennis, any luck in you neck of the woods.

Hey Dennis, bad news. Check out the link below for remapping problems with the DirecTivo.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1943361#post1943361

1) the subchannel is not mapping at all. In this instance, your station's analog channel (the one we've known for the last million years) is on channel X, and their digital station is sent on on channel Y. Most of the time the station then remaps the digital channel to channel X-1. In some cases now, the Tivo is not remapping that channel.

If you tune to 12-1, you will find KTHV 11-1.

Alison, did you guys make any adjustments to your equipment or your transmitter this weekend? For the past month, my digital signal has been fine, 11-1 and 11-2. However, as of Sunday, 11-1 is not remapping and is showing up on 12-1. 11-2 is still in the right place.

Originally posted by Tusk
Hey Dennis, bad news. Check out the link below for remapping problems with the DirecTivo.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1943361#post1943361

1) the subchannel is not mapping at all. In this instance, your station's analog channel (the one we've known for the last million years) is on channel X, and their digital station is sent on on channel Y. Most of the time the station then remaps the digital channel to channel X-1. In some cases now, the Tivo is not remapping that channel.

If you tune to 12-1, you will find KTHV 11-1.

Alison, did you guys make any adjustments to your equipment or your transmitter this weekend? For the past month, my digital signal has been fine, 11-1 and 11-2. However, as of Sunday, 11-1 is not remapping and is showing up on 12-1. 11-2 is still in the right place.

Nope, everything should be the same. Will check in the am just to make sure.

Originally posted by alisonf
Nope, everything should be the same. Will check in the am just to make sure.
Allison,

It looks as if something changed Sunday. Both of us started seeing this Sunday. I was out of town from Saturday morning early until Sunday around 2. I did not have this problem Friday night. When I went to watch Cold Case Sunday night is when I first noticed the problem. Tusk and I both are using the same HD receiver, the HD TiVo. Something happened that has messed up the way it is able to remap to 11-1.

Originally posted by dlott
Allison,

It looks as if something changed Sunday. Both of us started seeing this Sunday. I was out of town from Saturday morning early until Sunday around 2. I did not have this problem Friday night. When I went to watch Cold Case Sunday night is when I first noticed the problem. Tusk and I both are using the same HD receiver, the HD TiVo. Something happened that has messed up the way it is able to remap to 11-1.

Dennis,
Sounds like a mystery! I checked my consumer receivers and they did not indicate a problem. I do not have a Tivo. Are you not picking us up at all?

I haven't picked up 11-1 since sunday. Shows nice signal strengh, no image. Just checked 12-1 per above, and 11-1 is coming in fine on that channel. Just FYI.

Okay! It will have to wait until the am for a reset. You just about have to take the channel off the air for a reboot and I prefer to avoid that in prime time! We could have had a power glitch at the studio this weekend, I know that KARK had a dark studio for about an hour. Could be that it affected us somehow during that process. Thanks for the info!

Thanks Alison for following up on this for us. Even though we are considered early adopters and expect to have a few bumps in the road, it's still really frustrating when glitches occur.

We're glad you're here. Keep up the good work at KTHV.

Thanks! We appreciate you guys who keep us on the "straight and narrow"!

Originally posted by alisonf
Thanks! We appreciate you guys who keep us on the "straight and narrow"!
Thanks Alison!!!
I have almost gone to watching your's and KLRT exclusively when I am watching a local station. It does make a difference when we see a commitment from a station's management and people to do HD right. We realize that right how it is not something that is viewed by some as cost effective, but it does show the stations commitment to put the viewers interest first. I will not forget who has my best interest at the forefront of their station's plans. I thank you, Allen, and both your stations management for your commitment to HD over short term profits. Thanks again.

KLRT 720p update

We switched over to 720p today around mid-day. We are still on track for the upgrades wednesday. The installer is telling me we should be able to complete the upgrade wednesday, all though he is scheduled to be here through thursday should any problems arise. Look for KLRT-DT to be off the air most of the day wednesday.

allen,
I noticed KLRT-DT is now 720p.

Thanks for letting us know you'll be off the air Wednesday. There's nothing more frustrating for the digital viewer than to tune to a dead OTA channel and wondering what's wrong.

Alison,

I wanted to update you. I just got home and checked 11-1. It's working again. I remapped my OTA digitals, and 12-1 has dropped off since 11-1 is active again on my receiver.

Thanks for resetting the system or whatever you did. When my guide data was at 11-1 and the actual channel was at 12-1, I wasn't able to set my programs to record.

Thanks again.

Originally posted by Tusk
Alison,

I wanted to update you. I just got home and checked 11-1. It's working again. I remapped my OTA digitals, and 12-1 has dropped off since 11-1 is active again on my receiver.

Thanks for resetting the system or whatever you did. When my guide data was at 11-1 and the actual channel was at 12-1, I wasn't able to set my programs to record.

Thanks again.
You are welcome! It was a quick fix. It seems as if the PSIP computer had a microsoft moment and needed a restart. Glad it worked!

I guess Perry Chester and the rest of KARK have decided it's easiest to ignore us loons spouting some gibberish about HD programming. I sent an e-mail to Perry about a month ago and an e-mail to KARK engineering about two weeks ago. I expected a cookie cutter reply, but they chose instead to just ignore me.

Oh well. I wasn't really expecting them to say they would get right on it. Still, it's nice when the station acknowledges you. I've sent e-mails to KTHV (which was answered by Alison before I knew she was on the board) and KLRT which was answered by Chuck Spohn, GM. It's no wonder that KARK is in the crapper. I guess their new building is supposed to make them a player in the market. Instead they continue to fall behind staying barely ahead of KWBF and PAX in my opinion.

KWBF's and PAX's picture on DirecTV is terrible. The picture is so soft it is almost blurry, and the color is washed out. I was surprised to see how Equity's website talks about their state of the art facilities and how they provide service through their CASH system all across the country. They need to focus on sending a better transmission two miles down I-430 to Clear Channel for DirecTV uplink.

Just my thoughts.

Originally posted by Tusk
... KWBF's and PAX's picture on DirecTV is terrible. The picture is so soft it is almost blurry, and the color is washed out. I was surprised to see how Equity's website talks about their state of the art facilities and how they provide service through their CASH system all across the country. They need to focus on sending a better transmission two miles down I-430 to Clear Channel for DirecTV uplink... Although I don't get the LR locals on D*, I suspect the "softness" you're seeing may be due to overcompression by DirecTV for those two channels.

I just wish KYPX & KWBF would start broadcasting digitally. I occasionally watch them OTA, in spite of the severe ghosting on those channels at my house. Equity's probably holding off on OTA DTV until they can snag some sort of multicasting deal from USDTV (http://www.usdtv.com/), et al.

To alison and allen:
Do your stations have any plans for future multicasting deals with these "OTA" cable companies?

Originally posted by arxaw
Tusk,
Due to their low transmission power (~1kW ERP), KETS-DT ch 5 suffers from impulse noise interference in the heat of the day. Mornings & nights it possibly gets co-channel interference from WMC-5 in Memphis and KFSM-5 in Ft Smith. All of this causes frequent interruptions in audio and video. IMO, lowband VHF should be abandonded for digital TV broadcasting.

KETS-DT simulcasts four 480i subchannels of PBS programming.
2-1 is the same as analog channel 2.
2-2 thru 2-4 are various & sundry PBS programs, with 2-3 & 2-4 usually being childrens' programs like Sesame St. , etc.

When interference isn't plaguing the broadcast, the overcompression of 4 subchannels is, causing a pixelated mess during high action scenes.

IMO, KETS-DT is not worth adding a VHF antenna to receive them.

Reception is futile..... It looks like that gang in conway is giving a giant middle finger to the good people of Arkansas with this ch 5 mess!! I mean that this is the FLAGSHIP PBS station with a 90 - 100 mile reach on ch 2! Compare with surrounding states : Miss - first PBS digital station- FIRST ! La -lpb dt25- was the first digital station in La 4.5 years ago Okla-Ch3(dt31)- full power PBS HD subchannel only, located in the woods just across the border . Denizens of conway would a lot better chance of getting this than ch5.

Send reception complaints to AETN's Director:
Allen Weatherly
aweatherly@aetn.org

CC: it to:
Rick Chessen, FCC DTV Task Force Chair
rchessen@fcc.gov
tel: 202 418-2602

Originally posted by alisonf
Hey guys! We did not have any problems this weekend with 11-1 just so you'll know. However, we were running at 100%. This could have increased multipath and caused problems for some. It may be too much of a good thing! We are lowering back down to 70% for now.

Let me know if that makes a difference.....

How about 80 or 85% as a compromise for us folks down in Hot Springs?:)

I guess I'm right on the edge of your range - sometimes I get a good lock, and occasionally I can't get a lock.

How about 120% for us folk up in Harrison? I would like to know exactly how the Harrison cable can pull in the Little Rock channels so well. They have carried the Little Rock majors (except Fox) for as long as I can remember. (the early 70's)

Originally posted by Arkie
... I would like to know exactly how the Harrison cable can pull in the Little Rock channels so well. They have carried the Little Rock majors (except Fox) for as long as I can remember. (the early 70's) Interesting.... maybe a microwave link from LR?
Or via a mountain top antenna closer to LR than Harrison is, and sent from there to Harrison via microwave repeaters?

Alison?

Below is an email I recently sent to Allen Weatherly, Executive Director of AETN regarding reception problems with KETS-DT in Little Rock.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

To: aweatherly@aetn.org
From:xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx
Subject: Can't receive KETS-DT
Cc: "Rick Chessen, FCC DTV Task Force Chair" <rchessen@fcc.gov>


Mr. Weatherly,

AETN needs to increase their power on DTV channel 5 if you expect it to be watchable. In addition to the lousy last minute decision to change from UHF ch 47 to a low band VHF channel 5 (low band VHF is the worst band for digital TV), the low transmitter power cannot overcome the frequent impulse noise interference common to channels 2 thru 6.

I know a *lot* of people in the Little Rock area who have invested thousands of dollars in expensive DTV equipment for OTA home viewing. NO ONE I've talked to in LR metro can receive KETS-DT at all. I can receive it, but the frequent and constant interference makes it UNWATCHABLE.

Please remove the "DT" designation from KETS on your station logos. If a station is broadcasting but no one can receive it, they're not really broadcasting.


xxxxxx xxxxxxxxx
OverTheAir DTV supporter
Former KETS/AETN/PBS supporter



Mr. Weatherly's reply:
"Thanks for the input. We'll continue to refine the system and hope
coverage improves. The decision to use Channel 5, not a last-minute
decision, will save the state of Arkansas hundreds of thousands of
dollars. If we had stayed at the higher VHF [UHF] frequencies we were not able
to afford, with the money we received from state government, to accomplish
transition for the entire state - a requirement of our license.

Yours is one of two correspondents we have received about not receiving
the signal to date. Your input is important for us to track as we continue
to work to improve the system.

Thanks.

Allen Weatherly
AETN Executive Director"

And my reply:

The decision to switch to an interference-plagued lowband VHF channel for DTV *and* broadcasting power levels too low to be received by the residents of the cities of license (just so you can tell the FCC you're "on the air"), is wasting hundreds of thousands of dollars of Arkansas taxpayer dollars.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since Mr. Weatherly says they are tracking viewer input, please send your digital reception results to AETN. Let them know that the current DTV signal is unwatchable.

I just sent an email to Mr. Weatherly asking about power for both Little Rock and Arkadelphia. I get the Arkadelphia AETN much better than Little Rock, and according to their site, I should be getting AETN-DT on 13-1, but nothing. Will let you know what I hear! Shaneotool do you have a rotor for your antenna? Curious if you would be able to easily switch towards Arkadelphia to see if you can receive the digital signal.

Response from AETN-Mike McCullars

AETN is currently operating five digital transmitters in addition to its five
analog transmitters. Those serving the Hot Springs area are:
1. Arkadelphia: KETG-DT / 13 (virtual channel 9) is operating at full power (7.30 kW ave) using a dual channel omni directional antenna.
2. Little Rock: KETS-DT / 5 (virtual channel 2) is operating at low power (1.05 kW ave) with a directional antenna.

The reason for KETS-DT being at low power is that we are required to "protect" two channel 5 stations out of Memphis and Fort Smith until analog signals are done away with. We have no choice on this matter. We are investigating how we might tweak the KETS-DT signal to provide better coverage in some areas, but without interfering with those other stations.

As the technology continues to be improved over time (as it has already been over the past several years), our hope is that the reception of the digital signal will improve. This, unfortunately, may be a slow process that will take time as newer equipment for the broadcaster and the viewer becomes available. The other problem with digital is that, while analog is somewhat forgiving (ie, snowy, but viewable reception), digital is not forgiving -- you either get a perfect signal or no signal. In your case, it is possible that when KETS-DT is allowed to go to full power you will receive a signal. But that won't fully be known until that time and, sadly to say, there are not guarantees. This is frustrating and disappointing for you and us alike.

At this time, the official FCC date for analog broadcast to be eliminated is still 2006. However, there is much talk in the industry that this date will be pushed back by several years. This is still an issue to be decided before the FCC.

To answer your last question, AETN is currently utilizing its digital signals as best as can be allowed under present circumstances. We are providing four program streams now and will begin high definition this Fall if all goes well. We are working with the cable companies around the state to get them to carry the digital signal (either in addition to or in place of the analog signal). This, too, is a very slow process and we totally are at their mercy. Plus, the satellite providers have no plans to carry the digital signal in the near future, so we are told.

I know this is not what you would like to hear, but rest assured that we are doing all we can to provide a digital signal to as many people in Arkansas as possible. We do appreciate your letting us know of your reception problems. Not knowing your particular situation, we hope that you have already tried everything possible on your end, including raising your antenna higher, to get the AETN digital signal and being sure that your tuner is the latest version. Beyond this, we can offer no other suggestions at this time. Thank you for your patience and understanding.

Originally posted by nj829
Response from AETN-Mike McCullars

2. Little Rock: KETS-DT / 5 (virtual channel 2) is operating at low power (1.05 kW ave) with a directional antenna.

The reason for KETS-DT being at low power is that we are required to "protect" two channel 5 stations out of Memphis and Fort Smith until analog signals are done away with. We have no choice on this matter... nj829,
Thanks for contacting them.

Channel 5 used to be KWBF-LP (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=24263), a low power station in Sheridan, AR. KETS-DT was originally assigned UHF channel 47, but did a channel swap with KWBF-LP, knowing full well about the "protected" status of channel 5 in MEM & FTSM. They also knew about the pitfalls of using a lowband, low power digital transmitter in the 2 thru 6 VHF channel band.

It allowed KETS-DT to be on the air digitally, but only "on paper" to satisfy the FCC. This shenanigan is a complete waste of thousands of Arkansas taxpayer & viewer supporter dollars.

IMO, they are NOT on the air yet.

They are absolutely not on the air as far as HD goes! and thats the whole point of this dt stuff for me.

That response from AETN is a total joke. Basically, they are saying that it will be at the earliest 2006 but most likely a later date before they can begin transmitting at a higher power. However, they are currently doing everything they can do bring their digital signal to the most Arkansans. Sounds like the most people who can receive their station are those that live next to the antenna.

If no one can get the station, then the money they are spending is a complete waste of taxpayer money. They said their choice to use channel 5 was not a last minute decision. That's scary. Evidently that spent some time in making a terrible decision. I wouldn't broadcast that to the world if I were you Mr. Weatherly.

"the most people who can receive their station are those that live next to the antenna."

heheh, I think there are more cows than people in Redfield, SE of LR, where KETS-DT is co-located with KASN-DT. I doubt there are many HDTV receivers in that 'burb, either.

The time was spent wrangling & begging other stations for a channel swap. IIRC, they did this in some other part of the state, too (possibly NWA?).

At least Arkadelphia got a big eff'n 7kW transmitter <LOL>

What are the AETN sub-channels ( KIDS,YOU, LEARN, etc)?

Originally posted by shaneotool
How about 80 or 85% as a compromise for us folks down in Hot Springs?:)

I guess I'm right on the edge of your range - sometimes I get a good lock, and occasionally I can't get a lock.

I don't think that 10 or 15% will make much difference in Hot Springs. I am afraid the terrain or geography may be our obstacle. The problem is most likely elevation or lack thereof. Some the valleys in your neck of the woods can be difficult to cover. Are you able to receive KLRT-DT?

Originally posted by arxaw
Interesting.... maybe a microwave link from LR?
Or via a mountain top antenna closer to LR than Harrison is, and sent from there to Harrison via microwave repeaters?

Alison?

It is possible that some cable operators use microwave to beam the locals in LR out to the areas not covered. Most just have very nice receiving equipment with antennas on high towers.

As to 120% power requested by Arkie on the DT. That would be a great way to end my career in broadcasting! Are you guys trying to get rid of me?

As for 7kw transmitter in Arkadelphia...it may not sound like much so let me provide a reference point in regards to power using our station as an example. The analog channel 11 transmitter has an erp of 316kw at 100% power. That is a figure (316Kw) common to high band VHF transmitters. It takes about 39kw of raw transmitter power for that to happen. However, the digital ch. 12 tx has an erp of 55kw (maximized) at 100% for the very same coverage. It only takes about 8.6kw of transmitter power to drive it to that level. A little goes a long way! Much of the gain is in the antenna system. I hope that explanation helps put "power" in perspective.

alison,
I don't understand your post. KETG's ERP or Effective Radiated Power is only 7.3kW. Their actual transmitter power is much less.
See:
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=2768#10002

Originally posted by arxaw
alison,
I don't understand your post. KETG's ERP or Effective Radiated Power is only 7.3kW. Their actual transmitter power is much less.
See:
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=2768#10002

What is thier channel #?

They are digital 13, which is supposed to be the same as your transmitter in Hot Springs, is it not?

Originally posted by nj829
They are digital 13, which is supposed to be the same as your transmitter in Hot Springs, is it not?
Yes, I believe you are right. Well, that means that they are similar to our DT which is a high-band VHF. So it sounds like a low power operation. Relatively speaking it has more signal strength than some UHF stations that are running at low power.

And the DT Golden Finger Award goes to ...Mike McCullars.
Here's part of an AETN response

The decision to use VHF channel 5 was definitely not a "faulty engineering
decision", a "short term tactical decision" nor even a last-minute
decision. It was made after exhaustive analysis and research in order to
save the taxpayers of Arkansas nearly a million dollars in construction
costs for this transmitter alone as well as more than $150,000 per year,
every year in utility costs. Considering the limited amount of money the
state had available for the entire project, we would simply not have had
enough money to complete the full project to serve the entire state of
Arkansas -- a requirement of our five broadcast licenses -- if we had
stayed at the original higher UHF frequency. We do sympathize for those
viewers who bought such expensive equipment so early in the digital
transition. We have been advising people for the past several years to
wait as long as possible before making such purchases.
(Alright guys...why did you spend your money so foolishly?)

We still have one piece of equipment to be received, installed and tested
before we can begin regular HD broadcasts. This should be accomplished by this Fall -- if all goes well. (yeah, sure, but who can see it?)

As the technology continues to be improved over time (as it has already
been over the past several years), our hope is that the reception of the
digital signal will improve. This, unfortunately, may be a slow process
that will take time as newer equipment for the broadcaster and the viewer
becomes available. And we do remind viewers that the FCC's decisions --
and what we are required by law to go by -- were based in part upon
viewers receiving their digital signal using an antenna that is 30-feet in
the air. We understand that the 5th generation digital tuners that are
coming out this year are a great improvement over previous models.

In addition, for those wishing to receive their digital signal by
non-broadcast means, we are working with the cable companies around the state to get them to carry the digital signal --either in addition to or in
place of the analog signal. This, too, is a very slow process and we
totally are at their mercy. Plus, the satellite providers have no plans
to carry the digital signal in the near future, so we are told.
(Boy, this guy doesn't have a clue about the cable business!)

For the record, your email is one of four correspondents out of all 2.6
million television viewers in this state we have heard from to date about
not receiving the digital signal. Your imput is important for us to track
as we continue to work to improve the system. Thank you again for your
email.
(Can't one of you send a note to him so we can get it up to 5 out of 2.6 million viewers? Golly, that's 5.2 million eyeballs not seeing HD on AETN)

Mike McCullars
Director of Special Projects
AETN

McCullars' response cracks me up!

We still have one piece of equipment to be received, installed and tested. This should be accomplished by this Fall -- if all goes well.

With the FCC mandate being only the transmission of a digital signal, why are they wasting the taxpayers' of Arkansas money on HD? With the abysmal signal strength of their digital signal, what will the cost per viewer of HD add up to? If they truely are trying to save us money, why not weasel out like KARK?

Jeez, McCullars tries to blame everyone but AETN for the lack of reception. KETS-DT is the ONLY station I can't receive dropout-free. Hmmmm @ only 1 kW ERP, it's their fault, not my equpiment.

If they aren't going to broadcast at high enough power to be received, why waste even more money on HD equipment?

Maybe AETN could strike a deal to lease that piece of HD equipment to KARK. :D

nj829 - I don't have a rotor on my antenna, I have it pointed towards FOX and CBS because those seem to be the only signals that I could recieve here anyway. Most of the time these come in OK. It would be nice to get ABC for football - but that seems like a slim chance.

I rescanned for any new channels this weekend and picked up digital ch 5. It only comes in at 49% and I can't see a picture.

shaneotool,
complain to AETN's director of engineering, Gary Shultz
gschultz@aetn.org

ABC has been touting their new digital channel that is supposed to be operative during the Democrat convention. Is Channel 7 putting it on their digital sub channel. I can't get them off-air so it's not possible to tune them to see for myself.

I did note that INHD switched to covering the convention after the baseball game finished and it was in glorious HD. Ch 7 or Ch11 network feeds were not in HD. Or did they forget to throw the switches?

None of the major networks are covering the conventions in HD. HDnet is covering it in HD gavel to gavel and making it available to outlets who want it. I know Dish is putting it on in place of one of their pay-per-view channels. HDNet is only showing an hour with the keynote speech on the regular HDNet channel on DirecTv.

On ABC's web site (http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/ABCNewsLiveChannels/abcnews_now_channels_map_2004_subindex.html#ar), they show "ABC News Now" available on KATV channel 22-2 (aka 7-2). But KATV is only showing their regular network programming on 7-2 in 480i (and 720p on 7-1).


UPDATE: KATV is showing "ABC News Now" on 7-2.

Originally posted by wxguy
ABC has been touting their new digital channel that is supposed to be operative during the Democrat convention. Is Channel 7 putting it on their digital sub channel. I can't get them off-air so it's not possible to tune them to see for myself.

I did note that INHD switched to covering the convention after the baseball game finished and it was in glorious HD. Ch 7 or Ch11 network feeds were not in HD. Or did they forget to throw the switches?

The national feeds of the convention coverage are not provided to us in HD. The preceding programs Monday night were. So if you are talking about the convention coverage, there were no switches to throw! Ditto with tonight's coverage. The only HD today is Y & R at 11am and prime time between 8p and 9p, slim pickin's!

arxaw you beat me to the punch. I noticed ABC had switched to it last night at 1am (probably on earlier, but that was when I caught it on) This morning at 7, 7-2 was back to normal programming. On a side note, this was the second time I have ever gotten those channels to actually come in, but I am only using amplified bunny ears (and not the highly regarded RS 15-880) and in Hot Springs, making me assume that it would be possible with a better set-up to get ABC constantly. I am on top of a hill, and have great line of sites to LR, just a lack of programming keeping me from trying much more. Also, AETN out of Arkadelphia I have been able to get a signal from, but haven't been able to get a steady signal, just hits every so often, so no picture yet..

In the on-line schedules I note that Wednesday's lineup shows INHD (maybe HDNet also) is carrying the convention in HD starting around 6pm. What I find interesting (no not the convention) is that yahoo lists INHD as a simultaneous feed from CBS with Dan Rather, etc. Yet the Tiffany network is only feeding SD to the locals. I don't know what the costs are in electing to do it that way, but it seems strange not to send it along since it is available.

Not the fault of the locals if the networks do it that way, but it does put them at a competitive disadvantage when I've got a choice of HD vs SD.

Since DirecTV will be soon be adding NBC-HD (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=30587&page=1&pp=20), I wonder if KARK will grant "digital waivers" for people in the KARK coverage area who want to watch NBC-HD?

UPDATE: KATV is showing "ABC News Now" on 7-2.

I was flicking channels last night and tuned up to cable channel 195. They had the ABC News Now on there but it was real smeared and soft. Kind of like they forgot to take the Barbara Walters Gauze off the lens. Don't know if they are using the subchannel feed from CH 7 but they ought to quit sending it out if they can't do better than that. Are the off-air subchannel pictures (7.02) fuzzy?

Originally posted by wxguy
... Are the off-air subchannel pictures (7.02) fuzzy? Nope. OTA 7-2 is as clear as a bell. Of course, it's only 480i. Maybe comscat is overcompressing the channel, making it look soft.

Originally posted by arxaw
Since DirecTV will be soon be adding NBC-HD (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=30587&page=1&pp=20), I wonder if KARK will grant "digital waivers" for people in the KARK coverage area who want to watch NBC-HD?
I am not going to hold my breath on that one.:(

If NBC-HD is handled like CBS-HD and if KARK won't offer digital waivers, you can probably just "move" your D* service address to a white area, keep your existing mailing address (& phone number), and subscribe to NBC-HD alacarte for $1.50/mo
;)

I wonder about the effect of this ruling on KARK and KATV


FCC Adopts Rules for Digital Stations
By Doug Halonen
http://www.tvweek.com

The Federal Communications Commission unanimously adopted rules today making clear that broadcasters who don't soon raise their digital TV stations to fully authorized power levels could lose potential audience reach permanently.

According to industry estimates, about 1,400 of the nation's 1,600 TV stations are offering DTV service. But some stations-particularly in smaller markets-are not currently operating at fully authorized levels, a move that critics charge is undermining the transition. In its order today, the FCC said most Big 4 network affiliates in the top 100 markets would have to be up to full power by July 1, 2005 or lose interference protection. Most other stations would have to follow suit by July 1, 2006.

"Station licensees that meet these deadlines will be permitted to carry over maximized service areas to their new digital channels," the FCC said. "Stations licensees that fail to meet these deadlines will not be able to do so."

Also today, the FCC adopted timelines and regulations under which broadcasters are supposed to pick the DTV channels they're planning to operate on permanently, with the first round of channel elections to be held in December and the final round in January 2006. In addition, the FCC announced that it has eliminated-at least for the time being - a requirement that broadcasters simulcast their analog-channel programming on their digital channels during the transition to the technology.

I'm not sure if the loss of interference protection applies to their current digital channel slot, their analog channel slot, or both. KATV & KARK will likely move their digital channels to their coveted analog VHF channel assignments when forced to turn off analog. That's probably why they purchased cheaper temporary low power UHF DTV equipment

Hopefully, the "digital white area" legislation (see p.5 here (http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=108_cong_bills&docid=f:s2644is.txt.pdf)) will pass and put even more pressure to upgrade on these cheapo stations.

The most likely "carrot" to get LP digital stations to increase power though, will be multicasting for "OTA cable". The corporations that own these stations won't be able to resist selling their "excess" bandwidth to outfits like USDTV (http://www.usdtv.com). Never mind what it will do to HDTV picture quality.... :(

Originally posted by arxaw
I'm not sure if the loss of interference protection applies to their current digital channel slot, their analog channel slot, or both. KATV & KARK will likely move their digital channels to their coveted analog VHF channel assignments when forced to turn off analog. That's probably why they purchased cheaper temporary low power UHF DTV equipment

Hopefully, the "digital white area" legislation (see p.5 here (http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=108_cong_bills&docid=f:s2644is.txt.pdf)) will pass and put even more pressure to upgrade on these cheapo stations.

The most likely "carrot" to get LP digital stations to increase power though, will be multicasting for "OTA cable". The corporations that own these stations won't be able to resist selling their "excess" bandwidth to outfits like USDTV (http://www.usdtv.com). Never mind what it will do to HDTV picture quality.... :(

I believe the loss of interference protection relates to the coverage area, which is neither digital or analog, it's both. It is the territory of broadcast that needs protecting.

alison,
So what you're saying is, if KARK-DT doesn't go full power by 7/4/05, they'll lose interference protection for both channels analog 4 & digital 32? If so, this is very good news for people who can't reliably receive KARK-DT. However, this still doesn't address KARK's lack of NBC-HD carriage.

Originally posted by arxaw
alison,
So what you're saying is, if KARK-DT doesn't go full power by 7/4/05, they'll lose interference protection for both channels analog 4 & digital 32? If so, this is very good news for people who can't reliably receive KARK-DT. However, this still doesn't address KARK's lack of NBC-HD carriage.

The way I understand it the protection is based on what your ultimate channel number is (frequency) and your ability to broadcast with out interference from others on that same frequency. We enjoy that protection now on the channel that actually makes $$.

I would imaging that unavoidable marketplaceand economic pressures will push the improvements viewers demand. Broadcasting is just like everything else, there needs to be some prospect of earnings before investments are made. This can be a tough business.

So in KARK's case, that would likely be channel 4?

Originally posted by arxaw
So in KARK's case, that would likely be channel 4?
They have protection now on 4 and temporarily on 32. I do not know their future plans for analog shut down. That would be a tough decision, low band V or UHF. I'd go for the prettier picture, if you can afford it. High energy bills and increased maintenance go hand in hand with UHF. Water-cooled tube power is not as much fun as solid state.

Hey Alison,

I've noticed that the DirecTV transmission of channel 11 has had significant white noise in the background. When you turn the volume to the point that you can hear what is being said, it sounds like the wind is blowing. I noticed this on the news, Big Brother and the Amazing Race.

Not sure if the problem is on DirecTV's end or at the uplink center. Thought I would let you know.

If lowband interference on digital 4 is anywhere near as bad as ch 5 digital is (impulse noise and tropo interference every night on KETS-DT), they best stick with 32.

Originally posted by Tusk
Hey Alison,

I've noticed that the DirecTV transmission of channel 11 has had significant white noise in the background. When you turn the volume to the point that you can hear what is being said, it sounds like the wind is blowing. I noticed this on the news, Big Brother and the Amazing Race.

Not sure if the problem is on DirecTV's end or at the uplink center. Thought I would let you know.

I had a viewer contact me on that one this week. Sounds like they are crowding in a few too many channels!!!

Originally posted by arxaw
If lowband interference on digital 4 is anywhere near as bad as ch 5 digital is (impulse noise and tropo interference every night on KETS-DT), they best stick with 32.

As much as I don't like big tubes and transmitter plumbing, I think 32 is probably a good bet. Finne has shown it can be a liveable situation. It takes a little more high power RF know-how. I am also seeing KETS ch. 5 coming over the top of their ch. 5 on Comcast cable. Maybe a little ingress occurring. TV is just no fun anymore!!

I don't see how 5 could ingress into any- well never mind - it is comscat. Seriously, 5 is hard enough to receive with a cut-to-channel antenna aimed at Redfield. Even then, it has horrible dropouts from interference every evening.

BTW, what is on comscat channel 5? I haven't had cable in years......

Comcast channel 5 is KARK.

Is AETN doing sub- channels? If so which ones.

Originally posted by alisonf
I believe the loss of interference protection relates to the coverage area, which is neither digital or analog, it's both. It is the territory of broadcast that needs protecting.

Alison,

That is the way I understand it.

" The deadlines for replication and maximization are:
July 1, 2005: Station licensees affiliated with the top-four networks in the top 100 markets that receive a tentative digital channel designation in the channel election process on their current digital channel must construct full, authorized facilities. Such licensees that receive a tentative digital channel designation on a channel that is not their current digital channel must serve at least 100% of their analog population coverage.
July 1, 2006: All other commercial station licensees as well as noncommercial licensees that receive a tentative digital channel designation in the channel election process on their current digital channel must construct full, authorized DTV facilities. Such licensees that receive a tentative digital channel designation on a channel that is not their current digital channel must serve at least 80% of their analog population coverage.

What constitutes "analog population coverage?" I mean, what quality of the analog signal qualifies me as covered? I can watch most analog signals until about the time the color sub-carrier is lost (with the exception of heavy multi-path interference). Do viewers with this type of signal qualify as covered?

Xesdeeni

Originally posted by phitz
Is AETN doing sub- channels? If so which ones. Currently, on KETS-DT:
2-1 is the digital equivalent of analog 2 (AETN)
2-2 thru 2-4 are all different PBS network programs from the PBS network feeds.

On my DirecTV box, there is no way to tell what's on any of the sub channels except 2-1, because PSIP info isn't being supplied and no information has been provided to Tribune Media, the company that provides program guide info to DirecTV.

When AETN begins carrying PBS-HD prime time broadcasts this fall, I would assume they will only attempt multicasting during the day. Of course knowing them, they may continue to try and shoehorn in all those compressed sub channels, plus the HD channel. Of course, that won't work.

The whole idea of HD on KETS-DT is ridiculous though, since NO ONE CAN RELIABLY RECEIVE THEIR STUPID 1kW station. What they need to do is move to a channel band suitable for DTV (highband VHF or UHF) and transmit at a power level that people can actually receive.

If the four subs are like WYES( an old line "whiteglove" private foundation PBS station) they are : 1-PBS national feed (as seen on Direct tv or dish network) 2-PBS kids 3-PBS national feed delayed 3 hours (westcoast feed) 4-PBS you. WYES does these subs during the day then does HD only at night. There is no analog mirror . The subs map to channel "80" (80-3 80-4 80-5 80-6) The HD channel maps as 11-1. I read in a post that the 80 is something that comes direct from PBS. A second string, Church run PBS station (WLAE. willwoods ministry) is coming on line in a few months. How they will do subs or coordinate with WYES I know not. The La state outfit , WLPB, does three subs : 27-1-analog mirror, 27-3- pbskids during the day and pbs you at night, 27-5 HD channel 24/7. The Miss state outfit, WMAH, has two subs: 1-analog mirror and 2 -HD channel. The HD channel suffers quite a bit from bit starvation: any complex motion causes checkerboarding, the more subs the worse it is! Therefore I expect AETN to continue there passive aggressive ways and run six subs. They will spin into this: Look: six stations where there was once only one! The fact that they are all pixilated is to be ignored.

AETN is doing 4 sub channels and the first one (2-1) is definitely a digital mirror of the analog channel. The other 3 sub channels 2-2 thru 2-4 are various PBS feeds with not much consistency to them, except that 2-3 & 2-4 are nearly always PBS kids.

Whatever they decide to multicast when they go HD is moot anyway, since no one living more than 10 or so miles from their directional low power antenna can reliably receive them. There is too much impulse noise in the heat of the day and too much tropo interference at night from three nearby high power analog stations blasting on channel 5. All of this interference causes frequent A/V dropouts.

AETN totally botched the Little Rock/Pine Bluff DTV conversion by doing a UHF for VHF-lowband station swap. Their answer to all of this is "we'll be on cable soon".... Well, I don't have cable, and have no desire to subscribe to it just to watch AETN digitally.

I am in the process of relocating to Little Rock from California, where I enjoyed all the networks in HD from Cox cable.

Without having to go back and read through the past 37 pages of posts, can someone give me a quick summary of the current status of HD availability in Little Rock? What is the best bet? Does Comcast offer any HD or do I need to go back to a dish and off-air receiver? Which networks are broadcast in HD locally? Will you all be watching the game tonight in HD on ABC?

Any information is greatly appreciated.

Speedbump,

Welcome to the Rock!

Here is the current digital lineup on Comcast- LR. You will need to enter a local zip (try 72210) and go thru a couple menus, to get to the digital channel lineup.

http://www.comcast.com/Support/viewCLU.asp?CLUID=10335

Currently ABC, CBS, and UPN are transmitting OTA HD. The local Fox affiliate is all set to begin when Fox starts HD this fall. I look for Comcast to add them to it's digital tier when they start as the policy is not to add the local affiliates until they start to broadcast in HD. Sorry to say that it looks like hell might freeze over before the local NBC affiliate (KARK) will do anything with HD.

All the national networks are broadcasting digitally here but some (NBC, ABC, and PBS) are at extremely low power.

Both Dish and DirecTV have the local station's analog signal available.

You will find most on this forum have gone to OTA for local reception to get the locals digitally, although it can be a bit tricky. If you decide to go that route you will find that the members here in this forum will be more than willing to share their experiences with you and make some good solid recommendations on what has been found to work in this area.

Hope you enjoy Little Rock!!

P.S. You can bet that most of us will be watching the game tonight. For alot of us, will be the first chance to catch some HD football. :D

Originally posted by speedbump
...Without having to go back and read through the past 37 pages of posts, can someone give me a quick summary of the current status of HD availability in Little Rock? What is the best bet? Does Comcast offer any HD or do I need to go back to a dish and off-air receiver? Which networks are broadcast in HD locally? Will you all be watching the game tonight in HD on ABC?Welcome speedbump. Yes, the game on ABC is in HD here in LR :)

Currently, here's the OTA digital lineup in LR:
PBS - *very* low power and no HD. Not worth trying to receive. Lowband VHF ch 5.
NBC - *very* low power and no HD. Not worth trying to receive. UHF ch 32.
ABC - low power on a directional antenna aimed at West LR. HD, but no DD 5.1. The ABC affiliate also offers ABC News Now on a second digital sub channel. UHF ch 22.
CBS - 1/2 of full power and HD, but no DD 5.1 Live weather radar on second sub channel. Highband VHF ch 12
FOX - Full power and 720p HD-capable, when FOX goes HD this fall. UHF ch 30.
KVTN - *very* low power digital religious station. UHF ch 24
UPN - Full power and 1080i HD. UHF ch 39

Comscat has some local OTA, but is ridiculously priced, vs DirecTV and an antenna. You have to have their digital and HD tiers, plus rent an HD box. You can get ABC and CBS in HD, plus the usual HD channels comscat offers in other cities. The City of LR charges enormous franchise fees and city, county & state sales taxes on comscat cable service. Service work is done by clueless underpaid subcontractors.

Take your pick, depending on what you want to watch and how much you're willing to pay each month. With the price difference of cable vs satellite, you can pay for the initial cost of a D* HD setup very quickly, especially with all the discounts they're currently offering.

If you're considering satellite service and want high speed internet service, SBC offers very reliable DSL service here. It's $36.99/month for the first year, for 3mbs speed. Slower 1.5 mb service is even cheaper. At the end of your contract, you can re-negotiate your contract and lock in a cheap rate for DSL for another year.

Currently ABC, CBS, and UPN are transmitting OTA HD

Welcome Speedbump--
A little value-added info for you when looking for a place to live. In North Little Rock, which incidently is the garden of speedbumps "one on every street", your choices are dictated by your techie needs.

Large chucks of NLR are not served by DSL, but cable is along most of the urban streets. Cox doesn't operate in this county (but it does in adjacent counties) and the city of Maumelle has Charter, so it's Comcast for most people in this county. Your desires for broadband internet could drive your decision on whether cable or dishes.
(Use the SBC/Yahoo DSL query form to see if DSL is available for your potential next-door-neighbor's phone)

They don't carry UPN on Comcast, just to clarify, but I found at my NLR home I can get almost all stations with a simple antenna. A simple no-gain UHF bowtie gives me everyone but PBS (which I understand nobody can get.- Ch 7ABC(actually CH22, but same tower) comes in -- an antenna cut for VHF5-PBS might do it).

You might have to invest in an OTA box (providing you don't have builtin tuner) to get some of the listed digital signals since Comcast is very slow to add channels. UPN has a couple HD programs, but not enough to get the Comcast execs to add them, so if you like certain network programs in HD, there is a possibility you can't get them except via OTA. (If you are using dishes, that's how you'll get them anyhow

No, you can't raise chickens in NLR. I think you can in Little Rock if your coop matches the historical style of your neighborhood and you don't cut down a tree to build it.
:)

DSL is available in most of Little Rock (YMMV North of the river).

SBC has a special right now for a DSL/Dish bundle. Total cost for both services is $57/mo. Add ~$10 for the HD package.

The older Dish HD receivers had some problems, but I have been told that the newer boxes have had firmware updates to fix the bugs. I would check with other Dish owners....

Thanks for all the feedback.

You're right about Comcast pricing. I currently pay about $52/mo for HD service w/ 2 premium channels and high speed internet (this includes a $16 monthly credit for turning in my old D* equipment). Looks like I'll have to pay over $120 for similar features here :( . And I was expecting a decrease in the cost of living!

Sounds like a dish and DSL are the way to go. I'll be in West Little Rock, hopefully I'll have good luck pulling in OTA locals. Any antenna recommendations?

It seems as if Dish has better equipment prices than D*. Other than lack of NFL ticket, is there an advantage to one or the other?

Thanks again.

DirecTV has an HD TiVo for recording OTA and DirecTV based HD programming. Dish had an HD PVR but I don't think the current receiver lineup has one. The HD TiVo can record multiple HD signals at the same time.

By the way the Dish PVR isn't even close in features to the DirecTV w/TiVo receivers.

I have DirecTV. That being said, each service has its advantages. As hbp said, if you're interested in an HD DVR, DirecTV is the way to go, although the hardware is quite expensive. If you want HD/OTA equipment for free (except for OTA antenna), the Dish/SBC/DSL bundle is the cheapest.

The OTA transmitters in central Ark. are mainly in two locations. This can be a hassle, depending on where you live in relation to the towers. CBS-HD, FOX-HD & NBC-SD are all on a hill in West LR. ABC-HD, UPN-HD & PBS-SD are near the small town of Redfield, approx 25 mi or so SE of West LR.

Generally, a small UHF antenna like the CM 4221 (http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/4221.htm) will usually work for most of the stations including CBS, which is VHF channel 12. PBS is only 1kW, 25 miles away and suffers from lots of noise & co-channel interference, due to its channel assignment in lowband VHF (ch5). It's not HD either. Reception of PBS requires a lowband antenna and preamp, but it's not worth the expense, IMO.

ABC is 25 miles away and only 10kW (last I heard), so if signal strength's weak, you'll need a good low noise preamp, like the CM 7777 (http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/7777.htm).

Alison,

Have you guys talked to DirecTv about your white noise problem? I have been watching SD programming off the HD antenna feed because the sound on the DirecTV SD channel is so bad.

I would be worried about all of the people out there who only have the DirecTV feed.

Thanks.

Tusk,
FWIW, WCBS-DT had the same problem a few days ago, but D* fixed the "hissing" audio.....

Part of a story from today's Demazette:

Most Arkansans won’t see Olympics in HDTV
BY MICHAEL STOREY
ARKANSAS DEMOCRAT-GAZETTE

OK, sports fans, we know you’re drooling for the Athens Olympics on NBC on Friday. The opening ceremonies kick off at 7 p.m. But if you took out a second mortgage to equip the den with a high definition television system, you’re out of luck if you hope to watch HDTV Olympics on KARK-TV, Channel 4.

Perry Chester, KARK vice president and general manager, said the number of viewers with HDTV is too low to justify the expense of producing the high-definition signal. "I think at this point, less than 1 percent of our viewer base for the total market has HD," Chester said. "We are doing a digital signal, but there are no plans for this year — or even next year — to do high definition."

For the record, Chester cited the official company statement on the matter: "Nexstar Broadcasting, the parent company of KARK, has made a decision to broadcast standard definition digital signals until such time as the FCC mandates high definition broadcast or the viewer base supports the additional cost associated with transmitting a high definition signal."

Nexstar, based in Irving, Texas, owns, operates or programs 43 medium-size TV stations. Their affiliations include all the broadcast networks except The WB. Nexstar bought KARK from Morris Multimedia Inc. "We bought the station a year ago," Chester said, "and we’ve got a lot of things we’re trying to do. "We’re trying to prioritize our capital investment in the television station, and we’re doing the things that will have the biggest impact on the biggest number of people and high definition is not one of those things."

KARK competitors KATV, Channel 7, and KTHV-TV, Channel 11, do offer HD channels on the Comcast digital tier. The service costs an additional $5 per month to rent a converter box.

I'm glad to see KARK getting some bad press on this. Maybe Nexstar will change its stupid SD-only policy if the "digital/HD white area" law goes into effect.....

The last paragraph should have mentioned that KATV-DT & KTHV-DT (& FOX & UPN) are available for FREE over the air.