Little Rock, AR - HDTV [Text View]

arxaw

04-28-03, 09:48 AM

Originally posted by allenf
Has anyone heard when Equity's WB affiliate in Little Rock is going HD?
Allen,

Probably not any time soon, if the forwarded email below is any indication.

They are also trying to get a different channel assignment from the FCC. Link HERE (http://www.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2003/db0117/DA-03-86A1.txt)
They were assigned ch 43, but want to change to 44.

-------------------forwarded message below--------------

On Sun, 16 Feb 2003 09:31:04
Doug Krile wrote:
>Unless something happened this week, the FCC has not yet assigned the
>digital channel for KWBF. There is a fair amount of interest in WB HD
>programming. We have not yet finalized plans for the transmitter and
>programming.
>
>Doug Krile
>Corporate Director of News and Public Relations
>Equity Broadcating Corporation
>1 Shackleford Drive
>Suite 400
>Little Rock, AR 72211
>501 255-0212
>dkrile@ebcorp.net

macd

05-02-03, 02:17 PM

I recently moved to Plumerville, AR (45 miles northwest of LR along I-40 near Morrilton). I put up a CM 8 bay bowtie antenna on a 10 foot mast on my roof, and then added a CM 7777 preamp. (On Sam's recommendation--thanks ). The preamp output is going into a Eagle Aspen 5x8 powered multiswitch and I'm using a Zenith SAT 520 HDTV receiver. I'm able to get digital 4-1, digital 7-1, 7-2 (couldn't get 7-1, or 7-2 without the preamp), CBS -11-1, 11-2, FOX 16-1, digital 38-1, analog Pax, WB, several religious channels, and a Spanish LR station on 55. My Zenith will only display signal strength as bad, normal, and good---and all are good with fox, and 38-1, and CBS probably a tie for the strongest. The only one I'm missing is PBS I think. Now I just wish they'd run the Masters again in HD!!

Scott Koontz
Plumerville, AR

allenf

05-03-03, 10:23 AM

macd,

Great report. Especially the part concerning 16-1, 38-1 signals being among the strongest! PBS should be on the air by late summer from KASN's tower in Redfield. They are beginning construction and it should go fairly quickly.

arxaw

05-03-03, 10:40 AM

Originally posted by allenf
...PBS should be on the air by late summer from KASN's tower in Redfield.
AETN told me to look for them to be on the air "possibly by November"....

Allen, I thought KETS-2 was broadcasting from KATV's tower. You're saying their digital channel will be on KASN's tower? What's the difference in tower height? I was hoping they would be on the taller stick, since they're only going to be ~2.5kw....

macd: I'm glad you're able to get all those channels. It will be interesting to see if you can get KETS-DT when they get on the air, since they'll be the only digital channel in the lowband VHF spectrum (RF channel 5). The bowtie antennas don't ususally work well for lowband VHF channels 2-6.

If you can't pick it up, you can always add a big honking lowband VHF antenna, and run it to the VHF terminal of the CM 7777 preamp. You'll need to open up the preamp and change the internal switch from single combined input, to "separate" input.

allenf

05-03-03, 02:21 PM

KATV didn't have any additional room on their tower for KETS-DT. Both KATV and KASN towers are basically 2000' structures. KETS-DT will be near the top of the tower. They have shifted the proposed height so I am not sure of the exact height. But figure somewhere in the top third of the tower. As a comparison- KASN and KASN-DT share a top mounted antenna at 1989'.

I've known the DOE for a while now and also know the fellow who is in charge of the project. They are both very competent and actually care about DTV. I would bet that things will progress rapidly now that they are started. Most of the delay to this point appears to have been budgetary (dealing with State and Feds), and a channel change. Things that could slow them down at this point include tower crew delays, weather, etc.

arxaw

05-03-03, 07:29 PM

Allen, thanks for the info. I was told that KASN's tower was much shorter than KATV's, but you should know :-)

Do you think that people in LR will be able to reliably receive KETS-DT @ only 2.1 kw ERP?

And have you heard if KETS-DT will be doing PBS network HD or just SD?

allenf

05-03-03, 08:38 PM

The problem with lo band VHF stations (2-6) is that an efficient antenna for them is physically large. Combine that with impulse noise and you may have a problem. Another issue is that *most* DTV stations are UHF. Folks who haven't seriously tried to receive off-air signals for years are buying antennas that focus on the UHF band. Could be trouble. On the other hand, VHF tends to propagate further and have less terrain issues then UHF. I'll defer answering your question about reliability. I'm taking a wait and see approach.
I haven't heard anything from them concerning HD vs SD multicasts. Personally- I would be fine with them SD multicasting during the day to serve their education mission IF they would then go HD during evening hours at a decent bitrate. You got to think that there is a an awesome potential for gorgeous HD being PBS. Again- I'm willing to wait and see.

When are you gonna drop by for the nickle tour?

arxaw

06-10-03, 11:28 PM

Analog KTHV, channel 11 is currently carried on Comcast cable channel 12 in Little Rock. Channel 12 is also the channel assigned to KTHV for their digital channel. This has caused interferenced for some Comcast customers, so Comcast is moving KTHV from cable channel 12 to cable channel 10.

Hopefully, KTHV-DT will become a full power station after the move...

hpb

06-11-03, 06:41 PM

Anyone have a date for KETS 2 to start HD transmission?

arxaw

06-12-03, 09:45 AM

Originally posted by hpb
Anyone have a date for KETS 2 to start HD transmission?
Sometime between now and November.... unless they get yet another extension from the FCC. I heard they already have their antenna installed on KASN's tower, so maybe it won't be too much longer.

According to this FCC site (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=KETS), they will be broadcasting at very low power; ~2kw ERP. They will also be on VHF lowband channel 5, which may suffer from impulse noise interference. I hope not, though.

You can contact AETN about their digital progress at:
info@aetn.org

arxaw

06-12-03, 09:53 AM

Originally posted by arxaw
Hopefully, KTHV-DT will become a full power station after the move...
Good news!

Yesterday, I spoke with an engineer at KTHV. He said they plan to increase their power on KTHV-DT, digital channel12 to the maximum allowed by the FCC. They will increase power within a day or so after moving from cable channel 12 to cable channel 10 on Comcast & Charter cable systems (http://www.kthv.com/comcast-move/default.asp).

This should greatly increase their reliability and coverage area.

arxaw

06-15-03, 07:41 PM

Anyone able to receive KVTN, channel 24 (remap: 25-1)?

FWIW, I heard they're on the air, but at extremely low power.

RockyF

06-18-03, 03:10 PM

Hi guys,

I've been reading this thread for a while, but haven't jumped in til now. I don't actually have any HD at home yet, I'm just staying informed so I'll know what's going on when I do. Anyway, I'm an editor at KVTN, and we are on the air. I'm not an engineer, so I don't know exactly what our power is, but on the monitor in Master Control, it has been pixilating a lot, and this morning there was no audio. I don't know if that's any help, but I have been enjoying reading this thread, so I hope that I can contribute more in the future. Keep up the good work.

arxaw

06-18-03, 07:52 PM

Hi Rocky,

Please find out what power level KVTN is using and post it here.

It must be extremely low, because I have a very good outdoor UHF antenna + preamp (I can pick up your sister station in Hot Springs), but I can't get a peep out of KVTN-DT. If they are at a very low power, they may as well turn it off if no one can receive it. It's a waste of energy.

BTW, I'm in midtown LR, on a hilltop.

RockyF

06-19-03, 11:25 AM

We are currently at 4.7 kw, but the engineer I spoke to said we will be doubling that soon (I don't know how soon, next week maybe). Our transmitter is in England, so if your antenna is pointing west towards Shinall, it probably wouldn't get our signal anyway. Let me know what you can get (or can't), the engineers are interested in finding out that there actually are some potential viewers out there.

arxaw

06-19-03, 12:04 PM

I have 2 antennas. One is for Shinall, and the other one is for Redfield. The antenna (http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/4221.htm) I use for Redfield has a very wide beam spread and I'm using a high quality low noise preamp (http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/7777.htm), so I should be able to pick up a station in England.... IF it was at a reasonable power level.

In the past, I had trouble receiving 4kw KARK-DT (until I "stacked" my Shinall antennas), and I live *much* closer to Shinall than England.

I don't think you'll get many viewers at that low power level & location, especially in the UHF band and a tower only 97 meters high, according to this FCC site (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=KVTN). I doubt that there are very many DTVs in England, Scott & Rose City, which is your likely coverage area.

Increasing the transmitter height, and/or increasing power to a decent level would make reception in LR more likely. If they do either one, please post back. I'll do a channel re-scan and let you know if I can receive it.
--Thanks

RockyF

06-19-03, 03:49 PM

We do monitor it here at the studio, which is in west LR on Napa Valley. I don't know exactly what type of antenna they have the reciever connected to, but it can get all of the other digital channels. We do experience more dropouts on our own channel than the others, so I guess thats just our reception here. I'll try to keep you informed.

arxaw

06-19-03, 06:35 PM

Since you're also experiencing reception problems, that should be enough evidence that the transmitter power & tower are too low for reliable reception. Dropouts make impossible to enjoy digital TV. I get NO dropouts on any of the other channels, although KARK-DT 4-1 took a lot of antenna experimentation before I could reliably receive it. They're about the same power as KVTN-DT, but on a much higher tower, and closer in.

See if you can find out what equipment the studio is using to pick up channel 24. (antenna, antenna height, amp(?), tuner, etc.).

Does channel 24 show up as 24-1 or does it remap to 25-1?

Thanks.

arxaw

06-23-03, 07:53 PM

Tomorrow, KTHV is moving from cable channel 12 to channel 10, on Charter & Comcast cable systems in central AR. This will allow KTHV to increase their OTA digital channel (12) to full power. Before this move, they were not able to broadcast at full power, due to interference on the cable systems.

If anyone is currently having problems receiving KTHV-DT, please post here if your reception improves in the next few days.

allenf

06-23-03, 09:33 PM

Anyone having trouble with KLRT-DT this evening? I am seeing macro blocking. Took a quick look at some monitoring gear I have access to remotely and things look fine. Still bugs me though. I rarely have trouble monitoring my stations here at home.

arxaw

06-24-03, 03:17 PM

According to "Allison" at channel 11, KTHV-DT (RF channel 12) is now running at full power. I get them at 100% on my Samsung TS160 using either antenna listed in the post above. They are experimenting with the signal strength levels and will be at full power for a couple of weeks. After that, they will likely drop back to 50% power.

Until now, they've only been transmitting at 15% of full power.

If you live quite a distance from Little Rock and can now receive KTHV-DT, please let the engineers at channel 11 know ( 501 376-1111 ), and also post your location here.

mjw1755

07-07-03, 11:41 PM

I recently moved to west Little Rock and have the Samsung 160 and a Channel Master 3016 (suburban range antenna in the attic). For the past few weeks, I was able to pick up 4-1, 7-1, 11-1, 16-1, and 38-1 easily with very little drop outs. Last week sometime, I was unable to receive 16-1. It may come on for a few seconds every minute, but now nothing at all. I thought I'd found the best place to point the antenna, but now I'm not so sure. I rescanned the digital channels, and now both 16-1 and 11-1 are gone. I was having no problems with CBS until I rescanned. I watched CSI: Miami with no drop outs at all this evening. I know that these are the two strongest broadcasting stations, so I can't figure out why I cannot get these two, but can get the weaker stations. Maybe I can fiddle with the antenna some more and hopefully find all the signals again. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Jordan

Tusk

07-08-03, 09:52 AM

Is anyone going to sign up with Comcast for HDTV?

arxaw

07-08-03, 11:09 AM

Originally posted by Tusk
Is anyone going to sign up with Comcast for HDTV?
Not me. I have DirecTV and an OTA antenna which gets the local HD channels perfectly, for free. DirecTV's a lot cheaper than comcast.

arxaw

07-08-03, 11:12 AM

mjw1755,

The Little Rock TV transmitters are in two different places. Some are near Shinall (not Chenal) Mountain, and others are near the town of Redfield, 25 - 30 miles from WLR.

What's your nine digit Zip Code?

tmcelmurry

07-08-03, 11:23 AM

I am. A comcast installer will be over at my house thursday morning.

I've been waiting for Comcast to offer this for a long time.

Tusk

07-08-03, 11:31 AM

tmcelmurry,

What kind of deal are you getting? Do you have to buy all of the movie packages to get HBO and SHO? What about the cost of box rental?

Thanks

arxaw

07-08-03, 12:04 PM

tmcelmurry,
Good luck with comcast.

See this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=274883&highlight=comcast+rant) about their HDTV service.

tmcelmurry

07-08-03, 01:27 PM

comcast hdtv is $5 a month. we were told that we would get cbs, nbc, abc, and you would get HBO HD and Showtime HD if you already had there packages.

The lady that I talked to also told me that they had plans to add one or two other channels shortly, but who knows.

mjw1755

07-08-03, 02:46 PM

arxaw,
My zip code is 72227-6462. I just found it weird that I was able to pick up all the channels easily for a while, and now it's difficult. Thanks
Jordan

arxaw

07-08-03, 04:56 PM

Jordon,
According to Antennaweb.org (http://www.antennaweb.org), you need to aim in 2 different directions, but if it's really hilly in your area, you may be able to point at a hill and pick up everything on a reflected signal.

Point West/NW for CBS, FOX, NBC
Point South/SE for ABC, PBS & UPN

(I'm about a mile east of you, in Leawood.)

arxaw

07-09-03, 11:25 AM

Originally posted by mjw1755
... Last week sometime, I was unable to receive 16-1. It may come on for a few seconds every minute, but now nothing at all....
mjw1755,
I wonder if KTHV-DT could somehow be causing problems for you. They just switched to full power the last week of June.

Just a thought.....

Tusk

07-10-03, 05:01 PM

Originally posted by tmcelmurry
comcast hdtv is $5 a month. we were told that we would get cbs, nbc, abc, and you would get HBO HD and Showtime HD if you already had there packages.

The lady that I talked to also told me that they had plans to add one or two other channels shortly, but who knows.

Have you got this installed yet? How is the quality?

Until Dish comes out with their 921 HD PVR, I'm going to pay the $5 for HD CBS and ABC. I was told that NBC is not yet available.

Also, if your interested, they said I could add HBO HD east and west feeds for $9.95 a month. I only have the limited basic package, so I'm going to do this for a few months because I can't wait to see HDTV at home.

arxaw

07-11-03, 09:18 AM

Originally posted by Tusk
... I'm going to pay the $5 for HD CBS and ABC. I was told that NBC is not yet available.
The Little Rock NBC affiliate, KARK-DT is only broadcasting digitally @ 480i STANDARD DEFINITION, and aren't showing any NBC network HD programming. They are too cheap to install HD equipment.

Since KARK-DT is only broadcasting in 480i SD, it would be a waste of comcast's bandwidth to carry the digital channel, when the picture is identical to the analog channel.

Send complaints to KARK here (http://www.kark.com/karktv/aboutkark/email_dir_tmp.asp).

Tusk

07-11-03, 10:00 AM

Hey arxaw,

How do I tell which LR stations are VHF and which are UHF? I hope to get a STB soon and I have never tried using an antenna before. I was trying to figure out what I might need.

I looked on antennaweb.org and everything is listed as red except KATV-DT, KVTN-DT, and KWBF-DT (which is not live yet) and those are blue. I live in chenal and can see the towers on shinall from my driveway.

If this has been covered before, I apologize. Thanks for any input.

arxaw

07-11-03, 10:16 AM

Antennaweb shows the actual channel numbers being used. The digital channels end in "-DT".

Channels 2 - 13 are VHF; channels 14 - 69 are UHF.

If you live near Shinall mountain, you should have little problem picking up KARK-DT (NBC), KLRT-DT (FOX) & KTHV-DT (CBS). They are all broadcasting from Shinall. KTHV-DT is the only VHF digital channel, but since you're so close, a UHF-only antenna would work for you.

For ABC (KATV-DT) and KASN-DT (UPN), you'll need to aim the antenna ~SouthEast of your home. See Antennaweb.org for exact directions on the "map" there. PBS (KETS-DT) is not on the air digitally.

If you want an indoor antenna, try the Silver Sensor from Sears or Circuit City. They'll let you return it, if it doesn't work for you.

A good outdoor antenna is the CM 4221 (http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/4221.htm). It's small, unobtrusive, and not expensive.

If you want a good OTA-only set top receiver, the Zeniths (Circuit City) have the strongest tuners. I have a Samsung, but if I were buying a STB today, I would get a Zenith.

arxaw

07-11-03, 10:18 AM

BTW, the CM 4221 is a better than "code blue", high gain antenna.

tmcelmurry

07-11-03, 01:58 PM

Since KARK-DT is only broadcasting in 480i SD, it would be a waste of comcast's bandwidth to carry the digital channel, when the picture is identical to the analog channel.

After it was installed, the installer told me almost the exact same same, but did say they were looking into possibly getting hdtv feed from another nbc station on some "true hdtv" feed in the future.

I watch CSI last night and the picture was great. I couldnt believe that I was able to see every piece of glass fly though the air or see every drop of rain from the sky. I havnt been able to see a abc "true hdtv" show yet.

I dont know what the hbo feed will look like yet, since I am know told that they will not have hbo hd till tommorrow, because, as the person on the phone said, "We have put the cart in front of the horse."

arxaw

07-11-03, 04:09 PM

Your comcast installer was BS-ing you. They can't show another NBC network station in KARK's market. KARK would immediately have the FCC on comcast's tail.

I've been watching CSI on KTHV-DT for about a year now, and yes, it looks fantastic. Some of the blood & gore scenes are a bit too much detail....

ABC's HD offerings although very good, don't seem to have the "punch" that CBS' 1080i shows do. That may be due to the fact that 720p must be converted to 1080i for my TV. If your display does native 720p, it may look better.

HBO on DirecTV is very good, but a bit below CBS quality, IMO. Of course, films transferred to HD look somewhat softer than the HBO original programming.

DirecTV also has:
Showtime HD
ESPN HD
Discovery HD Theater
HDnet
HDnet movies (better than HBO-HD, IMO)
HD Special events channel
HD PPV

Tusk

07-11-03, 06:27 PM

Originally posted by arxaw
Your comcast installer was BS-ing you. They can't show another NBC network station in KARK's market. KARK would immediately have the FCC on comcast's tail.

I wonder what the exact rule is for cable. I'm well aware of the SHVA for Dish, but when I lived in Fayetteville, we had the FS/Fay NBC, CBS and ABC, and we also had the Tulsa CBS and ABC as well as the Little Rock NBC. This was part of basic cable even though FS/Fay is its own DMA.

arxaw

07-12-03, 09:32 AM

My dad used to live in Heber Springs, AR. Their cable system carried ABC stations from LR & Jonesboro. But both of those stations can also be received there OTA.

That would have a lot to do with it, as well as who the various stations are owned by.

hpb

07-24-03, 04:27 PM

Are KASN-DT and KATV-DT broadcasting from the same tower?

I have a Channel Master 4228 antenna with rotar and a CM 7775 preamplifer.

I can get a 77% reading on my samsung receiver for KASN-DT but I have no signal at all for KATV-DT. After changing the antenna position I can get a 77% signal for KATV-DT I have a 33% to 0% signal for KASN-DT?

Any suggestions anyone ?

arxaw

07-24-03, 04:29 PM

I was having problems with KASN-DT 38-1 yesterday. Now, it's a "0" on the signal strength meter.

All the other digitals 4-1, 7-1, 7-2, 11-1, 11-2 & 16-1 are coming in perfectly, with no dropouts.

Anyone else having problems with 38-1?

arxaw

07-24-03, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by hpb
Are KASN-DT and KATV-DT broadcasting from the same tower?
No.

But both towers are in the Redfield area, just a few degrees apart, depending on where you live.

Maybe it has something to do with KETS-DT adding their digital antenna to KASN-DT's tower. (KETS' analog antenna is on KATV's tower). I hope so. It would be nice if KETS would get their long-overdue station on the air.

I tried to call Allen Finne, chief engineer for KLRT/KASN, but he's out of the office until early August.

jstrossner

07-24-03, 06:16 PM

I'm getting a zero on 38-1 as well!

arxaw

07-24-03, 09:18 PM

KASN-DT, channel 39 (aka 38-1), is back on the air.

arxaw

07-25-03, 08:13 AM

Does comcast carry both 11-1 & 11-2 on their HD/digital cable in LR?

mjw1755

07-28-03, 06:58 PM

I was able to find a spot to point my antenna between the two towers where I can pick up all the channels. The problem is sometimes I get dropouts on the channels from this position. It was happening during CSI, so I turned to that tower, because I mostly watch CBS and FOX. With football season approaching, I will have to have ABC as well. Would it be better to get a rotor and switch between the towers, or get an amplifier to pick up all the stations from the position between the towers. Does anyone have any suggestions on which I should try, and which models to try? Thanks.
Jordan

arxaw

07-28-03, 07:24 PM

You are getting dropouts probably because the antenna is getting mulitpath - reflected signals causing the disruptions. Multipath can change, depending on time of day, time of year and atmospheric conditions. A preamp would likely make multipath problems worse.

Also, the type of antenna you use can affect reception. LR has digital channels in both the VHF & UHF bands, so you need a VHF+UHF antenna. CBS and (soon) PBS digitals are in the VHF band. All the rest are UHF.

What antenna are you using right now? Brand and model, if possible. Also, what part of town do you live in? What's your nine digit ZIP code?

arxaw

07-28-03, 07:27 PM

I haven't been able to receive (UPN) KASN-DT most of the day. Anyone else having problems?

jstrossner

07-28-03, 08:56 PM

I just checked KASN and it was coming in fine.

I saw this article about Nbc and HD http://www.adweek.com/aw/national/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1941056

I emailed Perry Chester @ Kark and asked if they were going to be broadcasting in HD any time soon .... Still waiting for a response !!

illumin8

07-28-03, 10:57 PM

I just found out that Comcast was offering HDTV when I scrolled through the guide on my digital box and saw HBOHD and SHOHD. Placed my order today and I should have an installer out here Thursday.

I previously had OTA HD reception through a Zenith HDV420 set top box, but the only channel I could get was KTHV 11-1. I live in an apartment building and can only use an indoor antenna. CSI in HD is an awesome experience though. My only dissapointment was sometime in February of this year when KTHV changed something about their signal and I could no longer receive it at all!

I have no idea who to contact about these things. After a couple of weeks with no KTHV in HD, I just said "screw it" and packed up the Zenith box and stored it away.

Well, it's good to know that some people in Arkansas actually read avsforum and they seem to be people in the know. I figured if I ever contacted a TV station here and told them their HD signal was out I would get someone that would say: "HDTV, what's that?" Anyway, from reading this thread, it sounds like my KTHV problems may be resolved. I'll have to pull out the Zenith and see if it's working now.

On another note, which set-top box is Comcast using for HDTV? Is it the Motorola 5100? If so, do you know if the DVI-D port is enabled? I have a TV with DVI-D input and I'd like to be able to use it. All of my component inputs are full...

arxaw

07-29-03, 08:02 AM

Originally posted by jstrossner
I just checked KASN and it was coming in fine.

...I emailed Perry Chester @ Kark and asked if they were going to be broadcasting in HD any time soon .... Still waiting for a response !!
He never replied to my emails. What address did you use? Their web site shows pchester AT kark DOT com

You can also contact KARK's owner, Nexstar Broadcasting Group (http://nexstar.tv).

In addition to no HD, KARK is only transmitting at a measly 4kw ERP (compared to KLRT & KASN @ 1000kw!). And KATV is only 30kw.

If you're having reception problems with KARK or KATV (not HDTV complaints), contact:
Rick Chessen, FCC DTV Task Force Chair
rchessen@fcc.gov
tel: 202 418-2602

Tell him how much you've invested in DTV, only to find out some of the stations can't be received due to low transmitter power. The public is being mislead on DTV.

WRT KASN-DT, they're back on the air. Their chief engineer has been on vacation. That might be the reason KLRT & KASN have been having trouble lately.

arxaw

07-29-03, 08:34 AM

Comcast has ESPN-HD (which occasionally broadcasts games in HD - but most programming is just "stretched" SD from their regular channel), and SHO-HD & HBO-HD. HBO/SHO-HD channels are included if you rent their HD box and subscribe to SHO & HBO. Comcast only carries two LR local digital stations - KATV (ABC) & KTHV (CBS). For the rest, you still need an antenna and an OTA STB.

According to this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2344727#post2344727), some comcast boxes have DVI, others don't. And on the ones that do have it, it's non-functional!

Back in Feb., I think KTHV-DT was only broadcasting at ~8kw ERP. They're now at 27.5kw, which still doesn't sound like much, but they're on VHF (channel12). VHF requires only a fraction of the power a UHF station needs. But it does normally require a different antenna than UHF. What indoor antenna were you using?

jstrossner

07-29-03, 09:08 AM

I did use Kark's web link email. I'll send a copy off to Nextstar.

illumin8

07-29-03, 02:42 PM

Originally posted by arxaw
What indoor antenna were you using?
Terk with an amplifier (for some reason I get a better signal with no amplification though). On a clear day I can sometimes get 16-1 KLRT Fox, but with Fox, what's the point? It's 480P anyway, although 480P widescreen is (slightly) better than 480i 4:3.

If KTHV is coming through Comcast I might as well just get rid of the Zenith box. No sense in cluttering up the home theatre setup with yet another component. ;) Besides, those two component inputs on my Sony set are becoming prime real estate. It looks like the DVD player and HD Cable box are going to win the contest for the only two component hookups, and the Xbox will be relegated back to S-Video... :(

I know I must be probably the only person that actually wants them to enable DVI-D, because for most it just means copy protection, but my set supports it and I could really use the extra input. Not to mention slightly better PQ.

Thanks for the info.

arxaw

07-29-03, 03:13 PM

It's a shame to give up on OTA, when I suspect the root of your reception problem is that awful TERK antenna. They are the worst pieces of overpriced over-hyped junk on the market. It's been reported in this forum that a coat hanger works better. Others have reporting signal strength increased when they disconnected their Terk - really.

See
1. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2461682&highlight=terk#post2461682)
2. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2402194&highlight=terk#post2402194)
3. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2415875&highlight=terk#post2415875)
4. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2420631&highlight=terk#post2420631)
5. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2421726&highlight=terk#post2421726)
6. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2444107&highlight=terk#post2444107)
7. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2451028&highlight=terk#post2451028)
8. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2463203&highlight=terk#post2463203)
9. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2479779&highlight=terk#post2479779)

illumin8

07-29-03, 10:02 PM

Funny, I tried the Zenith super sensor first and it was worse... Honestly, living on the bottom floor of an apartment complex and having an indoor antenna, how many channels can I actually get? I pretty much came to the conclusion that to get any decent reception in Arkansas you must have an outdoor antenna. Is that not the case?

Anyway, I just want to watch HDTV, not worry about pixelation, drop outs, or anything like that. Digital cable might suck, but at least I don't usually have signal quality problems with it. I think it's a pretty bad state of affairs when we have all of this high-tech home electronics yet to tune in a channel you have to sit there and twist the rabbit ears around just like it was 20 years ago. I thought technology was supposed to improve things like this. Maybe I'm just jaded but so far my OTA HDTV experience in Little Rock has been less than stellar.

I should have taken the Zenith back to Circuit City before the 30 day return deadline, because it's really not worth it for just one channel.

arxaw

07-30-03, 09:48 AM

Enjoy your cable.

I have a friend who is looking for an OTA STB. If you're interested in selling the Zenith, send me a PM.

jstrossner

07-31-03, 01:26 PM

I had emailed Kark to ask about their plans for hd. Here's the response.

"Jeff, Thanks for the inquiry. KARK,at this time ,has no plans to broadcast HDTV this year ,or even early next year.Our company just purchased KARK and there are higher priorities facing us at this time. Conversion to HDTV is important to us.However , it is not the most important item on our list. Thank you!
Perry Chester"

arxaw

07-31-03, 05:58 PM

That is the response I expected.

They spent millions for a new building, but can't afford the equipment for network HD.

The FCC should allow satellite and cable to carry out of market HD network affiliates in places where the local affiliate is not broadcasting at full power or not passing network HD.

illumin8

08-01-03, 01:00 PM

I just wanted to post my experience with Comcast HD in Little Rock. My install was scheduled for Thursday between 10 am and 2 pm (I asked if they would let me come into the office and pick up the box, but no, they would not).

Install Experience:

The installer didn't show up until 4:00 pm, and only after I had called the central office 3 times wondering where they were. They are not good about even calling you to let you know they are running late. I'm a Support Engineer for Sun Microsystems, so it's hard for me to believe the lack of professionalism from their install contractors. If they are running late, that's one thing, but I would expect at least a courtesy call to let me know their ETA. I did receive a $20 credit on my bill as a way of saying "we're sorry for being late."

The installer brought a Motorola 5100 box and a fairly thick looking cable which is basically component video + RCA audio, all 5 wires in one thick white cable. I used my own cables. He didn't seem to know what TOSLINK was for audio, and was kind of surprised that I didn't need to hook up any RCAs to my stereo. The install went very smoothly.

Post-install experience:

My set is a Sony 40" XBR. I checked both SD and HD broadcasts, and was impressed and a little surprised that right out of the box the STB was configured properly for my television. HD broadcasts were sent in 1080i with a 16:9 aspect ratio (of course), and when I change channel to an SD broadcast the box outputs a 480i signal to my television, which causes it to resync and I get a 4:3 aspect ratio so the image is properly zoomed on my TV. The color is a little off on the SD broadcasts for some reason, and this seems to affect both the component outputs and the S-Video output (I connected S-Video into my television also so that I could A/B the SD channels). The color isn't too noticeable most of the time, but watching a few minutes of the Simpsons on KLRT it seemed like I might be getting a little bit of green push. Overall, SD picture quality is slightly worse than watching on a non-HD digital cable box.

When I first tuned to HBO-HD and SHO-HD, I was getting some pixellation and MPEG artifacts every few minutes. I called Comcast and the operator said some of the "rate codes" on my account were not setup properly, and they reconfigured something on their end. After a couple of hours, the MPEG droupouts cleared up. This seemed to affect only the HBO-HD and SHO-HD pay channels.

One other thing to note: This box must have a much more powerful CPU than the other digital cable boxes I've used because channels change much faster. Also, the painfully slow channel guide is much faster. Now screens re-draw instantly. They still have the same fugly guide with banner ads on it though.

Channel quality:

The two local stations (ABC(?) affiliate and KTHV CBS affiliate) seem to be pass-through of the exact same signal you get from an OTA receiver. Of course KTHV is probably the best quality. I've always been very impressed with the HD programming on CBS.

ESPN-HD is really lousy. They are simply stretching SD material to a HD resolution (not sure if they're using 1080i, 720p, or 480p). Eventually they may broadcast some games in HD, which would be nice, but overall I'm not impressed.

HBO-HD seems to have the most movies in pristine 1080i and Dolby Digital 5.1. One of the first movies I watched was Shrek in 1080i and DD5.1, and it was amazing. This is what HD was made for! SHO-HD seems to be broadcasting only 50% HD and the rest of the time it is a pillarboxed SD version of the movie. Also, it seems that Showtime has less movies that are Dolby Digital 5.1, and more that are just 2 channel Pro-Logic surround.

Conclusions:

Overall I think it is a good service, especially due to the low up-front cost (you don't have to buy the box). If you're already receiving digital cable it's especially a good deal because it won't cost you anything more per-month to swap your existing digital box for a Motorola 5100. If you're not getting digital cable there is a $5 a month box rental fee.

I live in an apartment complex where I can't get satellite so digital cable or OTA are pretty much my only options. This seems to be the best HDTV solution for me so far, and it's kind of future proofed because I don't have to invest any up-front money in the box.

Anyway I'll post more information after I've had the box a little longer. Let me know if anyone has questions about the service.

arxaw

08-01-03, 07:05 PM

Originally posted by illumin8
...Overall, SD picture quality is slightly worse than watching on a non-HD digital cable box.

The A/D/A conversions in the STB probably degrade the PQ.
Other AVS Forum members have reported getting better picture quality on the analog channel tier by splitting the cable and running a leg of it to your TV, and using the TV's tuner for the analog tier. Of course then you lose the wonderful ad-filled guide.....

... The two local stations (ABC(?) affiliate and KTHV CBS affiliate) seem to be pass-through of the exact same signal you get from an OTA receiver. Of course KTHV is probably the best quality. I've always been very impressed with the HD programming on CBS.
ABC (as well as ESPN & eventually FOX) is 720p and CBS is 1080i. If your STB must convert 720p to 1080i for your set, there's may be some PQ lost in that conversion, too.

... ESPN-HD is really lousy. They are simply stretching SD material to a HD resolution (not sure if they're using 1080i, 720p, or 480p). Eventually they may broadcast some games in HD...

ESPN is 720p and has been broadcasting some games in HD. But they are stretching all 4:3 material to 16:9, which is a total joke. They're even stretching commercials during true HD game broadcasts. The true HD is rare for ESPN so far, but they will increase programming a lot as time goes on. The price may go up, too. Comcast told me ESPN-hd was a "free preview" right now. Others in the forum have been told the same thing.

...If you're already receiving digital cable it's especially a good deal because it won't cost you anything more per-month to swap your existing digital box for a Motorola 5100. If you're not getting digital cable there is a $5 a month box rental fee.

These are not the prices I was given. I was also told if I had cable, I could just come in, pickup the STB, and do a self-install. Just like DirecTV, if I called comcast back and got a different CSR, I would probably be told a different story.

I was told if you already had digital cable, the HD box was another $5 a month (in addition to the digital tier charge and additional STB charges for each TV). And if you only had analog cable and wanted to add the box just for High Def channels, the HD box was $10 more per month.

For 1 HD box, 2 additional SD boxes and the digital tier, comcast quoted me $32 a month more than D* charges, for less programming than I'm currently getting. That difference would pay for my D* system in less than 18 months.

illumin8

08-02-03, 02:15 PM

These are not the prices I was given. I was also told if I had cable, I could just come in, pickup the STB, and do a self-install. Just like DirecTV, if I called comcast back and got a different CSR, I would probably be told a different story.

I was told if you already had digital cable, the HD box was another $5 a month (in addition to the digital tier charge and additional STB charges for each TV). And if you only had analog cable and wanted to add the box just for High Def channels, the HD box was $10 more per month.

For 1 HD box, 2 additional SD boxes and the digital tier, comcast quoted me $32 a month more than D* charges, for less programming than I'm currently getting. That difference would pay for my D* system in less than 18 months.
Yes, the price of digital cable sucks. It is much more expensive than DirecTV and Dish for inferior quality (non-digital channels are inferior due to the A/D/A conversion). But, there are a couple of other things you have to take into account. I live in an apartment that won't let me put a dish up so that's out. Also, my internet service is through them, and it's only $40 a month with digital cable, but they charge $60 a month if you're not a cable customer (I thought bundling services like that was illegal in most countries, but this is the U.S. and large corporations get away with murder here). I was going to get rid of digital cable completely before they came out with HD service. Now I guess I'll probably keep it.

Anyhow, the bottom line is that DirecTV and Dish give you more better quality channels at a lower price, but if you can't get DirecTV or Dish for some reason, HD over cable is a viable alternative.

arxaw

08-02-03, 06:02 PM

If I lived in a north facing apartment, I probably get cable HD if they carried all the locals.

I assume you do not have a south-facing balcony. If you do, your apartment can not prevent you from putting a dish on your patio. See the FCC fact sheet (http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html).

Cable modem service is awful where I live. The speed can be good, but reliability is not as good as DSL, and often slows to near dialup speeds in the evening. And when it goes down, there's no dialup backup, at least there wasn't when I inquired about it. Perhaps there are too many cable modem customers in my neighborhood. I also needed dialup access when traveling.

Anyway, I have DSL, which is only $29.95/month, and includes free nationwide/backup dialup access.

mjw1755

08-04-03, 11:25 AM

arxaw,
I have the Channel Master 3016 Suburban Range Antenna mounted in my attic. My zip code is 72227-6462. I posted before and you helped me with which way to point the antenna. I guess I need to get a rotor. Thanks.

arxaw

08-04-03, 08:08 PM

mjw1755,
Which channels can you get with your antenna? And when you re-aim it, what channels are added, and what channels do you lose?

illumin8

08-05-03, 12:30 AM

Did anyone notice that ESPNHD was out on Comcast today? I checked around 7:30 pm to see if the baseball game would be broadcast in HD and the feed was dead. Just a blank screen and the Dolby Digital audio feed from the STB went shut off as well.

They're not turning it into Pay-per-view for certain events are they? I would have expected a message from the STB asking me to order if that was the case.

mjw1755

08-05-03, 07:18 AM

arxaw,
I get CBS, NBC, and FOX pointing it at Shinall Mt, and ABC and UPN pointing toward Redfield. I found a spot about in the middle where I can pick up all the channnels, but experience dropouts. It's not too bad, just annoying. At the moment I have it pointed at Shinall Mt., because I primarily watch CBS and FOX right now. This will change with football season approaching.

arxaw

08-05-03, 12:41 PM

illumin8,

ESPN is not a PPV channel. It sounds like your subscription got hosed. Call comcast and have them turn it on again.

A friend of mine with an HDTV and analog basic cable just called comcast to ask about HD & ESPN-HD availability. Comcast told him if he paid $5 a month, he could get an HD box that would pickup two local channels KTHV & KATV, and that other stations (fox, UPN, NBC, WB) would be added in the future, IF they ever go HD.

They also said ESPN is available right now as a "free preview". So it sounds like it will become a pay channel on comcast before long.

WRT your somewhat blurry SD channels, there may be an RF Loop through on the back of the HD box. IF it's there, you can connect the cable directly to your TV's Ant. input from the back of the box, without splitting it again. This will allow analog chanel viewing on the TV when the STB is turned off. According to other threads in this forum, some of these STBs have this feature enabled, but others do not.

arxaw

08-05-03, 01:03 PM

Originally posted by mjw1755
arxaw,
I get CBS, NBC, and FOX pointing it at Shinall Mt, and ABC and UPN pointing toward Redfield. I found a spot about in the middle where I can pick up all the channnels, but experience dropouts. It's not too bad, just annoying. At the moment I have it pointed at Shinall Mt., because I primarily watch CBS and FOX right now. This will change with football season approaching.

mjw1755,
You might have better luck with a less directional antenna, like the CM 4221 (http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/4221.htm). The CM 4221 is a good one for aiming "in the middle" of two towers, or towards a hill. Although designed as a UHF-only antenna, it often works well for VHF channels 7-13. It will probably pick up channel 11-1 (really ch 12) with no problem. But when PBS channel 2 goes digital (on lowband VHF channel 5) this fall, you'd need to add a separate VHF antenna, or you can add your existing antenna to the mix (see next paragraph).

Since your reception is weak, adding LOW NOISE preamp may help you. The CM 7777 (http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/7777.htm) is a good one. It has 2 coax inputs and an internal combined/separate switch option for connecting a single VHF/UHF antenna on one coax, or separate VHF & UHF antennas.

If I were you, I would try a CM 4221 aimed at the sweet spot and connected to the UHF input of a CM 7777 preamp. Then, aim your existing combo antenna at Redfield and connected to the VHF input of the preamp.

The CM 4221 is ~$30. The CM 7777 is ~$65, but definitely worth more than discount store amps, due to its very low noise rating. Noise kills digital signals.

arxaw

08-05-03, 06:28 PM

(NBC) KARK-DT, channel 32 (aka 4-1) is having problems with their digital channel. The MCO is aware of the problem and said someone was "on their way to the transmitter" to fix it.

It's been pixelating for several days now....

I really wish they would add the equipment needed to pass NBC network HD programs. Maybe the fact that comcast refuses to carry non-HD OTA digital stations will make KARK (and other foot-dragging local stations) speed up their HD conversion.

jstrossner

08-05-03, 07:19 PM

After receiving Kark's email response about Hd, I would say that they have done all they plan to as far as digital/hd is concerned. They had to put up a digital feed...they did...low power and antenna height. They have a monopoly as to Nbc broadcasting/viewing in central AR..."It's good to be King"
I receive Nbc from LA and NYC via directv so I don't have to rely on Kark. Hopefully this won't change when Directv adds our locals near the end of the year!

arxaw

08-06-03, 09:13 AM

I solved the KARK pixelization problem.
I quit watching them :)

arxaw

08-13-03, 11:49 AM

A buddy of mine with an HDTV and basic analog cable recently heard about comcast's HD service here in LR, so he gave 'em a call. They told him he could just come in, pick up the HD box and take it home. It only raised his bill $5 a month, so he thought he'd give it a try.

He picked up a box, brought it home and promptly called me to connect it for him (he is not tech-savvy at all). When I looked at the box, the first thing I noticed was it had no component output jacks, so I knew they gave him the wrong STB.

When he called comcast about this, they said "oh, you can't pick up an HD box - we'll have to install it", so he set up an appointment for a particular morning. They showed up right on time (~5pm that afternoon) and connected a Moto DCT5100 HD STB. The installer did not leave my friend a STB user manual or even a "quick check" guide.

Shortly after the install, friend calls to tell me that the picture looked no better than his analog cable. I asked him what input he was using and he said "CH 3 - that's what the guy told me to watch it on" (comcast repair also told him to use CH 3, when he called to complain about the picture). I told him, "No, you need to switch to component HD input". So he tried that, but the picture was severly off-color and there was NO SOUND. So I go over to his house to see WTF was wrong.

When I checked the back of the STB, I found the component video OUT was connected there correctly. But the L+R AUDIO cables were connected to the Audio IN Jacks on the STB, instead of Audio OUT!. I grumbled and moved the cables to the correct jacks. This fixed the lack of audio, but the the video color still looked horrible.

On the back of the TV, I found that the Pr video component cable was connected to an unused AUDIO-IN jack! No wonder the picture looked off-color! I cussed comcast again and moved the plug over to the Pr IN jack.

That fixed the picture, but he still couldn't control the sound using the comcast-supplied remote. He had to use his TV's remote for that. I realized that the installer didn't program the STB universal remote to control his TV. I did a quick Google and found the setup info & codes for the DCT5100 remote. Finally, everything worked.

After all these problems, and after seeing the slow, primitive ad-filled guide on the DCT5100, I have no desire to ever try HDTV from comcast in Little Rock.

(The only upside to this story is my friend is also getting all the non-premium digital cable channels including HD for only $5 a month. He's supposed to just get the 3 HD channels for his $5. Normally, SD digital cable without HD is ~$15/mo extra, including SD box rental. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/images/icons/icon12.gif)

arxaw

08-18-03, 07:02 AM

Anyone else having audio problems with KATV-DT 7-1?
I get audio on all the digital locals (including 7-2) except 7-1. It's been out for over a week.

I called the station, but they're clueless. They don't even have a way to monitor the OTA audio from the studio!

allenf

08-18-03, 07:55 AM

arxaw- Just checked and the audio is working on 7-1 for me here at home.

arxaw

08-18-03, 08:05 AM

allen,
I can't get it to work on my TS160? It worked fine until a week or so ago.

I've checked all my STB audio settings, rebooted/reset the receiver, etc. but nothing helps.

Any ideas as to what might be causing this problem only on 7-1?

allenf

08-18-03, 10:40 AM

Sam- Just looked at KATV's transport stream here at work. Looks like everything is in order on their end. Only problem I see is their average PCR jitter is towards the high end of acceptable. As a point of reference, KARK-DT average PCR jitter is much higher. I did a full rescan with a spare Samsung 150 and it found KATV 7-1 & 7-2 with no problems and was playing audio. The box was receiving 7-1 audio before the rescan. Mainly wanted to make sure things would come back preoperly after a rescan. Only thing I can think of is to do a rescan with no antenna hooked up followed by a rescan with your antenna/s.

arxaw

08-18-03, 11:01 AM

Thanks for the suggestions.
I've tried the "no antenna" scan/rescan, but that didn't help.

I suspect it's something in the data stream that's changed that's affecting the TS160. There are other threads in the forum about lost audio on the TS160, and it's often been with ABC affiliates.

KATV is clueless; they don't even have an DTV OTA monitor in the studio. My next step is to contact Steve Samsung support.

WRT KARK problems, they've been SNAFU off & on for over a month. Pitiful.

allenf

08-18-03, 11:31 AM

Sam- If you find out the cause of the ABC issue and the 160, I'd be interested to know the cause. I don't see any issue with the transport stream. If there is some subtle thing I'm missing, I'll put it in my bag of tricks for future use. I never pass up an opportunity to gather knowledge!

Allen

arxaw

08-18-03, 11:41 AM

Allen,

I called Samsung Tech Support. They said the problem was with the station. Even after telling them that friends of mine with other brands of STBs could pick up the audio, they refused to budge on their diagnosis. I guess I've reached a dead-end.

Any more ideas?

Azanon

08-18-03, 11:44 PM

Well i have new widescreen HDTV on the way and I need some help deciding what HDTV reception method is best for me. I live in West Little Rock on Cherry Crest Cove, zip 72211-5437.

Ok here's where i stand if i went Satellite/OTA: - I dont own a receiver so i'd need to buy one like that zenith for 400 bucks from circuit city. I also dont have either an antenna or a dish. I am NOT mechnically inclined at all so the antenna, pole, .... everything would need to be both purchased and professionally installed. Same goes for the dish. And one final concern I have is if there is any chance upper-middle class WLR homeowners communities have anything against "archaic" OTA antennas on your house (please dont laugh, i'm not really sure and haven't actually noticed one, though I i'm not the most observant person sometimes).

My other option of course is Comcast HDTV/Digital cable. Less upfront costs (no need for a 400 dollar HDTV OTA receiver, no need for professionally installed and purchased OTA antenna, and DirectTV dish/service install), but more month to month costs.

Help me decide on what will make me happiest.

Thanks,

Azanon

rlj5242

08-19-03, 08:16 AM

everything would need to be both purchased and professionally installed Free installation is usually included since you would be a new customer.

And one final concern I have is if there is any chance upper-middle class WLR homeowners communities have anything against "archaic" OTA antennas on your house They can't do anything about it. The FCC protects your right to receive television signals in any manner you see fit. Or you could just install the antenna in the attic and no one would see it. The only problem is if you live in one of the valley's in your neighborhood. I lived at the bottom of the hill on Cherry Bend and had pretty bad reception of the analog LR stations. On the other hand, I hadn't found this forum and learned about quality antennas.

Help me decide on what will make me happiest. It's really up to you to weigh the pros and cons and make the decision. I switched to satellite 10 years ago because of the crappy cable company in Sheridan. I never tried LR cable but I know people who did and hated it. When I moved to the Memphis area, I took Time Warner's 30 day free trial of digital cable. I kept it 29 days and went back to satellite.

-Robert

Azanon

08-19-03, 08:23 AM

Free installation is usually included since you would be a new customer.

I was referring to the OTA antenna. I know DirectTV would install the dish, but i'm assuming they arn't going to bother with my OTA antenna. I know you can buy one of those OTA antennas that attach to the dish, but I think i'm going to need one that's separate since half the stations are on shinnal mountain and the other half are SE of me.

I'm actually pretty far up the mountain, but not all the way at the top. The mountain i'm on continues to rise West of me and there's a 3 story house at the top of that mountain.

Azanon

arxaw

08-19-03, 08:48 AM

Hi Azanon, and welcome to AVSForum.

Your decision should be based on what HD channels you want, as well as long term cost.

Comcast HD package offers:
One brand and type of SetTopBox. No choice. No DVI or RGB outputs. No VCR control via program guide. One set of audio jacks on the box. An Ad-cluttered program guide.
CHANNELS:
HBOHD & ShowtimeHD (with subscription to the standard definition channels of those channels)
A *lot* of HBO & Showtime HD programming is upconverted - not true HD
ESPNHD (occasional HD - mostly games)
KATV-DT 7-1 (ABC)(HD primetime & sports)
KTHV-DT 11-1 (CBS)(HD primetime & sports)

Choosing DirecTV gives you:
Choice of STBs from several manufacturers. Most have DVI outputs and component outputs, and some have RGB out. All have multiple audio out jacks and one button VCR recording via the D* program guide. NO advertising in the channel guide.
DirecTV CHANNELS:
HBOHD & ShowtimeHD (with subscription to the standard definition channels of those channels)
ESPNHD (occasional HD - mostly games)
DiscoveryHD (HD 24/7 - no upconverts)
HDnet (various HD programming 24/7)
HDnet Movies (movies in HD 24/7)
HD PPV ($5 per movie)
With the DirecTV box and antenna you would also get:
KATV-DT 7-1 (ABC)(HD primetime & sports)
KATV-DT 7-2 (480i)
KTHV-DT 11-1 (CBS)(HD primetime & sports)
KTHV-DT 11-2 (local live view radar)
KARK-DT 4-1 (NBC)(KARK is not yet HD)
KLRT-DT 16-1 (FOX)(HD sometime in 2004)
KASN-DT 38-1 (UPN)(HD when UPN begins....?)

You can get a standard multi-sat DirecTV system installed at no charge. Your extra costs would be the HD STB, and installation of an antenna, if you want an outdoor/attic antenna professionally installed. Antennaweb.org (http://www.antennaweb.org/) shows that in your zip code you could probably get all the channels with only an indoor VHF/UHF antenna. This one from Radio Shack (http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?cookie%5Ftest=1&catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F007%5F001%5F001%5F000&product%5Fid=15%2D1880) would probably work at your zip code. It you can get all the stations without rotating it, you could just put it up in the attic. Outdoor antennas may also be installed in the attic, but better results are usually obtained outdoors. Your HOA can NOT prevent you from installing a dish or outdoor antenna. See:
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

With the difference in costs for comparable programming & digital cable STB rental vs DirecTV, my 3 room DirecTV system paid for itself in less than 18 months. Now I'm saving ~30 bucks a month and I get more HD channels.

If you have an outdoor/attic antenna installed, your costs will be higher of course, but you still eventually come out ahead cost-wise with DirecTV.

arxaw

08-19-03, 09:11 AM

Originally posted by Azanon
I was referring to the OTA antenna. I know DirectTV would install the dish, but i'm assuming they arn't going to bother with my OTA antenna. I know you can buy one of those OTA antennas that attach to the dish, but I think i'm going to need one that's separate since half the stations are on shinnal mountain and the other half are SE of me.

I'm actually pretty far up the mountain, but not all the way at the top. The mountain i'm on continues to rise West of me and there's a 3 story house at the top of that mountain.
Azanon,

If you go with DirecTV, call Broadway Satellite at
501 945-3553 to set up installation of a BASIC standard definition "multi-sat satellite" system and OTA antenna. A basic system costs a DOLLAR, if you agree to keep TotalChoice basic programming for a year.

The OTA attic/outdoor antenna, if needed, will cost more of course. Broadway Satellite use multi-sat dishes exclusively, which is what you need for HD.

AFTER the system is installed, purchase a DirecTV HD receiver (Zenith & Sony, both made by LG Electronics, currently have the best OTA tuners). Circuit City carries these STBs. Buy locally, in case the box has problems, so you can return it with no hassles.

Replace the standard def. box with your new HD box. Call DirecTV to have the HD box activated and the SD box deactivated. Also tell DirecTV to activate the "HD programming package", or add it youself at the DirecTV web site. Sell the old box on eBay or keep it for a spare. THERE IS NO 12 MONTH COMMITMENT to keep any specific SET TOP BOX connected, as long as you keep your TotalChoice basic programming for a year.

Azanon

08-19-03, 12:17 PM

Thanks for the help Arxaw!

I do have one more question. As i'm sure you know, DirectTV intends to offer local channels as an add-on option shortly. Do you know if these channels will include the HD versions, or not?

That would eliminiate the need for an OTA antenna, but of course would add to the cost.

arxaw

08-19-03, 12:23 PM

No HD-locals are planned anywhere by DirecTV. They currently don't have the satellite capacity to carry them. They could, if they changed to a newer encoding method, but that would require changing out every existing D* set top box!

The OTA digitals are so good, I have no intention of paying $5 more a month for the locals on D* which will be heavily compressed and much lower picture quality than OTA.

Azanon

08-19-03, 12:51 PM

Ok Arxaw, you convined me..... i'm going DirecTV. I'll work with Broadway Satellite too. I'm assuming you want me to have them install the basic set first since i'll get a free set-top box out of it. The channel i really want is discoveryHD. I'm a biologist and all, and that really appeals to me.... amonst the other advantages.

I'll research HD receivers tonight. I was originally just going to go with the 600 dollar samsung that had the DVI port, and supports both OTA and DirectTV. I'll check into those other models though. A quick glance at Best Buy and Circuit City's websites only showed the cheaper HD receivers that dont support Direct TV (only OTA). But if you say they have one at their stores, i'll stop buy and check it out on my way home.

I guess the only thing i'm really nervous about going this route is the possiblity i wont be able to get abc or cbs in. I watch the main networks quite a bit, so i'll be disappointed if i cant get a solid signal. I guess i will try having broadway satellite just installed an OTA directly onto the dish or whatever else they recommend when i call them. As i said before, my house is pretty high up the mountain and i have a tall, two-story, though i'm not at the pinnacle. But i'm really nervous because my dish/antenna will be static when the half the antenna towers are one direction, and half of them are in the other direction, per antennaweb.com.

Azanon

arxaw

08-19-03, 01:11 PM

How far are you from Shinall (not chenal) mountain? That's where CBS is located. I easily get CBS and ABC, with an attic antenna pointed toward Redfield.

Being so close to Shinall, you could likely just aim a VHF/UHF antenna S/SE toward Redfield (towards ABC) and get all the Redfield and Shinall stations.

If you're really concerned with OTA reception, I would get one of the Zenith/Sony (both made by LG) DirecTV boxes. They have the best OTA tuners. I have a Samsung, BTW.

The reason I suggested ordering a basic D* system, is Broadway Satellite may not do a free install on an HD system, since most of those customers have more money than sense :)

You can always call and ask them if they'll do a basic HD install for free. If not, just order the basic free SD setup + antenna, and then later, swap out the box for the HD box you buy on your own.

The "Insectia" series (http://dhd.discovery.com/schedule/series.jsp?series=78061&gid=10167) on DiscoveryHD is fantastic.

Azanon

08-19-03, 01:52 PM

I'm approximately 6.25 miles from Shinall Mountain. The only downside is the mountain continues upward to the NW, in the direction of Shinall.

Azanon

08-19-03, 02:53 PM

Ok well Broadway's coming out tomorrow. They are going to put me up a "batwing" antenna that will be anchored to the dish, but not directly on it, since it is really an independant antenna. They told me this will be an upgrade to the standard terk that they normally put on the dishes when people want an OTA antenna.

It will be a stationary antenna (no rotor), but they agreed to allow me to "try it out" and see just what i can pick up with it. I wont have my HD tv set up by then, but i'm going to assume if i can get a clear picture on abc and cbs, that I should be able to get a strong enough HD signal from those networks.

Azanon

arxaw

08-19-03, 04:53 PM

Did you tell Broadway your plans to add an HD box? If so, was that OK with them?

As for using analog reception as a good indicator of digital, that may not be of much help. For instance, I can not receive analog FOX channel 16 good enough to watch on my big screen, due to multipath ghosts. However, their full power digital channel comes in perfectly. On the other hand, NBC channel 4 analog, I get quite well, but their digital station is very low power (the lowest of the locals), so reception at my house has been problematic in the past. Reception was impossible with my old Hughes E86 STB.

If you get the Zenith or Sony (LG) STB, I don't think you will have problems. If you do have OTA problems with the LG box, it will probably be antenna-related.

It sounds like your "batwing" antenna may be a ChannelMaster Stealthtenna. Here's some info (http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/stealth.htm) on it, including an optional amplifier that might help with your reception. If this is the antenna Broadway installs, ask them to add the optional internal amplifier. Searching the threads for 3010, the amp seems to help that (somewhat weak) antenna.

The clip-on Terk antenna, (the one Broadway said they normally install) is not good at all for DTV or analog reception, according to others in this forum. It is easy to install though, which may explain why they use it.

Azanon

08-19-03, 05:42 PM

I didnt tell Broadway i intended to get a HD receiver, but i did make sure that they'd install a multi-satellite dish. I agree with your initial suggestion to "KISS", and just call DirectTV later when i'm ready to swap in my HD receiver, and add the HD package.

I'm glad you told me about the amp for the anternna, because i told them i didnt want it. Antennaweb told me i didn't need amps cause i'm not far from the towers, but i'll go ahead and add the amp based on your advise.

Well, I guess i wont know for sure whether I can get the HD signals then based on what you're telling me. But, heck, im practically centered (slightly offcentered) between shinall mountain and Redfield, so i cant imagine a much better location to be in, so hopefully with this decent outdoor antenna i wont have any problems. I grew up in Brinkley Arkansas (60 miles away from LR), and darn it if i can pick up cbs and abc there (which we can), SURELY i can pick them up (comparitavely) sitting under the tower.

I'll make sure and get the Zenith or Sony STB.

Azanon

arxaw

08-19-03, 05:52 PM

I based the amp suggestion on a search for keyword 3010 on the forum. I'm guessing the stealthtenna is the one they will be installing. It's not rated very highly, according to other members, but the amp does seem to help with low power digital stations. With the exception of FOX & UPN, all the LR digitals are operating at low power.

Good luck, and post back how everything goes. Also post any other questions or problems you come across.

Azanon

08-19-03, 08:13 PM

Just taking a cursory glance at this guys test, the stealthantenna look like the top performer, given that you install the amp: http://www.projectorexpert.com/Pages/antout.html

Now lets just hope that's what "Rickie" meant by "batwing". I swear i talked to the "son" today (that's on TV). How could one mistake his voice?

Azanon

arxaw

08-19-03, 08:37 PM

Yeah, it does look pretty good when amplified, for channels up to 39. Our highest digital channel is 39 (UPN), so maybe this antenna will be all you need. It did well on VHF channel 12, which is the channel that CBS digital is on in LR.

<LOL>Rickie & his dad.... I don't mind their funny little DirecTV ads.... it beats the screamin' car dealer ads on the news every night :)

Azanon

08-19-03, 09:18 PM

Yeah i love those ads too, though the dad seems senile.

I'll post back here after i get everything hooked up and all to let you know how its going. I just broke the news to the wife about how much the STB is going to cost. Looks like Circuit City is out of the Zeniths, but they have the Sony's in stock. I'll wait and buy it after I get the TV and SD STB running.

hpb

08-20-03, 09:50 AM

I get no audio. On the banner on my SamsungOTA HD broadcasts usually say "digital/AC 3".

On 7-1 it only says "digital". All other channels are working fine, including 7-2.

Is it my receiver or KATV?

arxaw

08-20-03, 10:06 AM

hpb,
YES, there is a problem with KATV.

A couple of weeks ago, they did a software change to the digital station which affected audio only on Samsung STBs.

Is your Samsung model # TS160? If so, please call KATV's Chief Engineer, James Tidwell at: 501 324-7790 or 324-7792 and complain to him.

He needs to be aware that the software change that affected only certain brands of STBs is still not fixed. It is NOT the fault of your digital tuner. The more people that call, the faster they will address the problem.

arxaw

08-20-03, 10:07 AM

hpb,
Please post back here with your Samsung model number.

Thanks

arxaw

08-20-03, 10:35 AM

Originally posted by Azanon
... Looks like Circuit City is out of the Zeniths... You can order it online (http://www.circuitcity.com/detail.jsp?c=1&b=g&oid=65243&catoid=-9712&errorMsg=no_avail) with free shipping. If there's a problem with it, you can return it at the local store.

If you want to compare features of different D* STBs or just read up on the one you plan to buy, you can download the user manual for the Zenith and other DirecTV STBs at this link at DirecTV (http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/learn/Manuals.jsp).
The Zenith is model #SAT520.

Once your DirecTV service is up & running, you can make changes to your programming (add/remove channels like HBO, SHO, etc.), or add/remove SetTop Boxes to your account. Programming changes and STB activation done online take place immediately.

However, since you're starting out with Basic non-HD service, I would add the HDTV STB and HD programming package later by phone, instead of internet. If you talk to a live person, you can get the first month of HDTV package free. But only if you ask for "HDTV first month free" offer.

Here's the AVSForum Thread on the SAT520 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=164376&perpage=30&pagenumber=15).

Azanon

08-20-03, 12:59 PM

I'd rather buy locally. Unless there's major issues with the Sony, i'll just go with it.

arxaw

08-20-03, 01:04 PM

I'm not familiar with these STBs, but supposedly the Sony has a couple of extra features on the remote that the Zenith lacks. Otherwise, they are identical inside.

arxaw

08-20-03, 01:07 PM

hpb,
I got this email form Mr. Tidwell at KATV regarding the audio problem affecting some STBs...

"We are trying to determine why [English/AC3 is missing on 7-1's channel banner], because the same PSIP information is on both channels. We are also working on a program schedule for the PSIP."

I attached a screen shot that shows the missing PSIP info on 7-1

hpb

08-20-03, 01:41 PM

Your screenshot is exactly like mine.

I have the Samsung T-160 also.

I will call Mr. Tidwell.

allenf

08-20-03, 03:48 PM

Sam- I just corrected the EPG problem with KASN & KLRT. The computer that grabs guide info from Tribune was hung. Tried emailing you, but email kept bouncing.

arxaw

08-20-03, 04:03 PM

allen,
Thanks for the heads up. I thought y'all provided PSIP EPG. I hadn't been using real PSIP until yesterday, when I removed the ZIP code in my Samsung box, so I coud watch KATV-DT with sound!

With no local ZIP code entered in setup, the TS160 uses PSIP info to build the local EPG. If a ZIP is entered, the box downloads an EPG for locals from DirecTV.

But entering a ZIP also kills the audio on 7-1.

I hope KATV gets all this figured out. They are trying to get Harris & Samsung to talk to each other about this problem.

hpb,
For now, if you want to get the audio back on 7-1 on your TS160:
1. Go into setup/installation/local networks
2. Remove all local zip codes.
The box should reboot and rebuild your program guide - MINUS the guide info for the local OTA channels.

NOTE, you will get some guide info from OTA, from the stations that provide it. Currently, 4-1, 11-1, 11-2, 16-1 & 38-1 all provide PSIP guide info.

Channel 7 does not.

shaneotool

08-20-03, 04:57 PM

Hey guys, I live in Hot Springs and was wondering if the OTA signals from the Little Rock stations are strong enough to be received down here. I'd like to make the jump to HDTV, but not if I can only get it off of DirectTV.

Also, whats the deal with Dish Network? No one has mentioned them as an option for HD. Is it even an option?

thanks for any advice

arxaw

08-20-03, 05:53 PM

hi shaneotool,
I'm not sure if all the OTA digital stations could be received in HS. I have my doubts, because most of them are broadcasting at low power.

You should be able to receive KLRT-DT (FOX), KASN-DT (UPN) & possible KTHV-DT (CBS). FOX & UPN are the only LR digitals transmitting at full power. KTHV-DT was at full power for a while, but according to one of their engineers, they've dropped back to ~50% power. KARK & KATV are the lowest power digitals and may not reach much farther than their city of license. You might try calling the stations & speaking to some of the engineers.

Only KATV & KTHV are broadcasting network HD. The rest are just standard definition.

Dish Network has some HD and more on the way. But currently, DirecTV has the most HD channels and a better selection of STBs.

hpb

08-20-03, 10:44 PM

I removed the zip code from my Local Network configuration and now I have audio on 7-1, but no guide data for KATV. So I decided to put the zipcode back to see if the problem would return but the receiver says it is receiving data and goes to 100%, waits a few more minutes and never sets the location to Little Rock or retains the zipcode setting.

I have tried a variety of zip codes and all produce the same results. Maybe DirecTV is having a problem with guide data?

Any thoughts?

arxaw

08-21-03, 10:28 AM

Originally posted by hpb
... I decided to put the zipcode back to see if the problem would return but the receiver says it is receiving data and goes to 100%, waits a few more minutes and never sets the location to Little Rock or retains the zipcode setting.

I have tried a variety of zip codes and all produce the same results. hpb,
I'm having the exact same problem. I've tried different ZIP codes, selecting NO DISH and back to OVAL-3, rebooting and unplugging the box (even overnight).

I can NOT get the box to re-accept the ZIP code info. It hangs at 100%.

I'm going to do some searches in the TS160 threads to see if there's a way to fix this.

Were you able to contact engineers at KATV?

Azanon

08-21-03, 10:41 AM

Arxaw,

Well, broadway's coming back out again today... they didnt have a tall enough ladder yesterday (my house is quite tall, and on a mountain). I'm going to just have them point the batwing towards Shinall. CBS is the highest quality one of them (cause my tv is native 1080i), so i'd just prefer i get a solild hit on it. I'm just hoping i'll be able to get ABC, UPN, and the others when they eventually go to full power with HD down the line.

I've seen at least one person here actually getting ABC HD with just an indoor antenna, so surely i can get it with an outdoor antenna with me being on this mountain and my tall house sitting on it, regardless of which way i have the antenna pointing.

I was delighted to see the sony HD receiver will come with a DVI cable. I thought i'd have to pay another century note for that cable, but i guess i wont.

Oh, and the technician was laughting at me, asking me "are you sure you want this batwing antenna in this neighborhood? I have this much more visually pleasing terk that goes right on the antenna". I smiled and answered.... "YUP!, i want the batwing!".

Azanon

hpb

08-21-03, 10:43 AM

arxaw,

I spoke with Mr. Tidwell yesterday and he suggested the same procedure you did.

Have you changed your zipcode since the firmware upgrade that came out last May? I don't think I have. Maybe there's a bug in the code.

hpb

arxaw

08-21-03, 12:01 PM

hpb,

Good news/bad news. First the good news:

KATV appears to have fixed the audio problem caused by incorrect PSIP data.

Here's how to get your local ZIP Code(s) back into the TS160:
1. If the system is locked, unlock the system in Profiles and exit the menu screen
2. With the STB still on, go over to the STB and open the drop down door.
3. Hold down the RT arrow key> on the STB itself (not the remote).
4. While holding down the RT arrow key, press the MENU button on the STB (not the remote) until the hidden menu appears on screen.
5. Select: COMMANDS/DEFAULT SETTINGS.

The box will reset to its default settings and you will now be able to enter your local zip code.
After entering your ZIP code, rescan for analog OTA channels from the Setup/Antenna menu.
Next rescan for digital OTA channels.
If you also have analog cable, you may alternately select SCAN ALL.

Now, the bad news:
ALL your settings for the box, including Profiles, Favorite channels, blocked channel lists, etc. may have to be re-entered.

arxaw

08-21-03, 12:20 PM

Azanon,

KTHV-DT, although not full power, seems to be one of the easiest channels for me to receive, regardless of antenna position [YMMV]. It is also a VHF channel, which your stealthtenna handles better than UHF.

Since you're farther from KATV-DT (ABC), and it is lower power, UHF and farther away, I would first try aiming the antenna for highest signal strength on ABC. At your distance, KTHV-DT will probably not be a problem.

I would insist on the preamp, since that antenna doesn't perform too well without it, according to tests I've read.

If the antenna is too obtrusive, you can paint it a flat color to match whatever's behind it (like trees), so it's not as visible from the street. Everything on the DirecTV dish, except the white parts of the LNBs, may also be painted, if desired.

hpb

08-21-03, 01:49 PM

arxaw,

Thanks for the info. I'll give it a try tonight. I don't have a favorites list or have any special configuration so it shouldn't be that big a deal.

If it were my TiVo that would be a different story ! ;)

hpb

hpb

08-21-03, 07:05 PM

arxaw,

That did the trick. Everything is back the way it should be.

Thanks,

hpb :D

Azanon

08-22-03, 08:37 PM

I wound up getting the Zenith 520. They had it mispriced for 499 (instead of 599) and gave me the lower price, weee!

The antenna they installed for me was a Wineguard GS-1000, without a preamp. They call it a batwing, and that's what it looks like, but Wineguard GS-1000 is the official name. As i mentioned before, it is an outdoor VHF/UHF antenna installed, attached to my satellite dish.

I'd say my reception was a success. I decided to point it towards Redfield, and i'm getting in both 7 and 11 DT, afaik without dropouts (see radar screen on 11-2, and 7-2 comes in perfect but just stretched shows so far). Naturally, 7, 38, and 2 are almost crystal clear on non-digital. Channel 4 on non digital is pretty good, but channel 11 is unwatchable (SD). Fox is also unwatchable ND, and i dont believe the DT for 16 is coming in either.

So far, my HDTV viewing has been stunning, watching mainly a mix of HD Disc, HDnet, and HD movies. I havent had the chance to see a real OTA HD show yet so I look forward to that.

Azanon

arxaw

08-23-03, 09:34 AM

Azanon,

Whew, I was afraid the antenna I *thought* they were going to install wouldn't work. But the one you ended up with is supposedly even worse for weak signals! It's designed for RVs, and only rated at ~25 miles, which is close to the distance to Redfield (ABC) from your house. And KATV-DT is only broadcasting at a 30kw, (full power would be ~1000kw).

This reinforces the opinions of many in this forum that the LG/Zenith/Sony STB you purchased has the best OTA tuner of all the DirecTV boxes available right now.

You should be able to get:
NBC KARK-DT 4-1 (480i) (actually on UHF channel 32)
ABC KATV-DT 7-1 (720p) (actually on UHF channel 22)
ABC KATV-DT 7-2 (480i) (actually on UHF channel 22)
CBS KTHV-DT 11-1 (1080i) (actually on VHF channel 12)
Radar KTHV-DT 11-2 (480i) (actually on VHF channel 12)
FOX KLRT-DT 16-1 (1080i upconvert) (on UHF channel 30)
FOX will begin HDTV in fall '04 and KLRT will likely switch to 720p at that time.
UPN KASN-DT 38-1 (480i) (actually on UHF channel 39)

If you later notice reception problems when the weather changes, or at different times of the day, you likely have a weak signal. If so, adding a high quality, LOW NOISE preamp to the antenna, like the Channel Master CM 7777 (http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/7777.htm) should solve dropout problems.

Did you connect the HD box after Broadway finished their work, or did they install it?

Azanon

08-23-03, 01:32 PM

Well, on your list i'm not getting 4-1 or 16-1. All i can say about channel 4 is, as i understand it, local NBC digital is being transmitted really low power and is also not HD yet, so I dont see that as being my antenna's fault nor do i really care anyway since it isnt HD. Furthermore, the NBC tower is also opposite direction my "directional" antenna is pointed.

Fox is also simply the other direction and whether my antenna was good or bad, it is definitely a directional antenna pointed the opposite direction of this tower. Like NBC, it isnt HD yet anyway, and wont be for at least another year. I cant remember if you said Fox is transmitting digital full power yet. Hopefully they arnt and i'll be able to get it when they do.

I installed the HD box myself after broadway finished their work. It went pretty painless, and i had it installed, up, and running in an hr or so.

I'm crossing my fingers on one potential problem that i guess i'll have the answer for tonight when abc and cbs broadcast a couple HD shows. Right now, both 7-1, and 11-1 are making my tv show a 4:3 image when i am in i1080 mode (my tv's native resolution). On those 2 channels, I have to put it on 480p to get it to fill my widescreen. I'm hoping that is just because they are showing 480i programming now, but i guess i'll find out tonight. My TV's ability to adjust the various widescreen modes is disabled since both my satellite video and OTA antenna is running through my STB and the input of video to the TV is via the DVI cable.

Azanon

arxaw

08-23-03, 01:53 PM

Originally posted by Azanon
[1.] ... I cant remember if you said Fox is transmitting digital full power yet.

[2.] ... Right now, both 7-1, and 11-1 are making my tv show a 4:3 image when i am in i1080 mode (my tv's native resolution). On those 2 channels, I have to put it on 480p to get it to fill my widescreen. [1.] Fox (16-1) is the only digital broadcasting at full power from Shinall Mtn.
UPN (38-1) is the only digital broadcasing at full power from Redfield area (different tower than ABC (7-1).

If you want to try to get any missing channels, or if you later discover audio/video dropouts on 7-1 or 11-1, especially during weather/season changes, the CM 7777 preamp may solve your problems.

[2.] Your STB and TV formatting for 7-1 & 11-1 are working as they should for a 16:9 TV.

7-1 upconverts all SD/HD programming to 720p.
11-1 upconverts all SD/HD programming to 1080i.
Both of these channels are always in 16:9 format.

Any 4:3 programming on these channels is sent as a 16:9 image, with either black or gray bars on the sides of the 4:3 image to fill the 16:9 frame. The bar color is set by either the network or local station.

If your TV's brightness & contrast are set correctly (per AVIA (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/630551982X/qid%3D1061661231/sr%3D11-1/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F1/102-5522766-9478500) or similar setup DVD), the sidebars shouldn't damage your screen.

Azanon

08-23-03, 02:39 PM

If you want to try to get any missing channels, or if you later discover audio/video dropouts on 7-1 or 11-1, especially during weather/season changes, the CM 7777 preamp may solve your problems.

I asked the broadway fellow about the preamp. As i understand it, doesnt a preamp have to "plug-in" to an electrical outlet? The preamp hooks direclty onto the antenna right? If so, then i'd have to run a power cord from the top of my house to my nearest outdoor outlet. I want to try to avoid that if possible, or am i misunderstanding preamps?

My TV has a "LNA" mode that supposedly improves the reception in a weak-signal area. As i understand it, this IS a preamplifier. Is this what you're talking about? Only downside is, the antenna isnt directly plugged into the set since it has to run through the Decoder first, so i guess that function is useless anyway.

Any 4:3 programming on these channels is sent as a 16:9 image, with either black or gray bars on the sides of the 4:3 image to fill the 16:9 frame. The bar color is set by either the network or local station.

I'm so glad to hear this. I was on pins and needles waiting to see the HD programming tonight hoping this would be fixed when HD content was sent.

Are the only HD programs on CBS and ABC during primetime, or is there some HD content during the day? From what i understand, it will only be for special events, like March Madness coming next year.

Azanon

08-23-03, 02:54 PM

Arxaw,

My Zenith 520 manuel suggests I connect the "out to TV" port on the zenith 520 to my TV's antenna In, in addition to my DVI connection. What functionality would this provide me? Right now, the only video cable i have going into my TV is my DVI cable from the 520 (and my component from my DVD) and my local channels seem to be working fine. However, i cant switch the widescreen mode type though (its permastuck in "wide" mode, no panorama, 4:3, etc.)

Thanks,

Azanon

arxaw

08-23-03, 04:34 PM

Originally posted by Azanon
Arxaw,

My Zenith 520 manuel suggests I connect the "out to TV" port on the zenith 520 to my TV's antenna In, in addition to my DVI connection. What functionality would this provide me? Right now, the only video cable i have going into my TV is my DVI cable from the 520 (and my component from my DVD) and my local channels seem to be working fine. However, i cant switch the widescreen mode type though (its permastuck in "wide" mode, no panorama, 4:3, etc.) About the only thing the "out to TV" coax connection would do in your case is allow you to view analog OTA channels using your TV's NTSC tuner, when the STB is turned off, assuming the Zenith STB has antenna "loop though" when off. It might be helpful in using your TV's PIP function, but I'm not really sure. For Zenith specific questions not answered by the manual, try the hardware forum threads (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=25) for the SAT520.

I'm not sure what you mean by "its permastuck in "wide" mode, no panorama, 4:3, etc.". Are you referring to the TV or the STB functions? And on which channels?

You might want to connect the S-video cable to the TV and switch the TV & STB to that input. That may allow you to use your picture formatting functions, but the picture quality would be worse.

Azanon

08-23-03, 06:23 PM

I'd dont really want to use any connection but the DVI though (but i'd consider a component connection). But my understanding is, the minimum connection for an HD signal is a component connection, with DVI being preferred. S-Video cant do 1080i right? (or 720p).

Ignore this if you want, just responding to you. I know its off-topic.

arxaw

08-23-03, 06:58 PM

Originally posted by Azanon
I'd dont really want to use any connection but the DVI though (but i'd consider a component connection). But my understanding is, the minimum connection for an HD signal is a component connection, with DVI being preferred. S-Video cant do 1080i right? (or 720p). Correct.

S-video is only 480i, but it's an alternate way to view the 4:3 material on 7-1 & 11-1 using your formatting options (stretched, zoomed, etc.). But I'm certainly not recommending you use s-video connection, though. S-vid 480i would turn on the stretch/zoom, etc., but you would lose a lot of resolution.

Formatting is supposed to be locked on 720p & 1080i channels. Assuming your TV has been properly setup (contrast & brightness turned down to non-screen-burning levels), I would just watch 4:3 on 7-1 & 11-1 the normal way - via DVI with sidebars to fill out the 16:9 frame.

WRT compnent vs DVI, there should be no difference at all in PQ if you have a CRT projection set, and very little difference for other types. I don't recall what type of set you said you have....

arxaw

08-23-03, 07:06 PM

BTW, Azanon, how do you like the DirecTV HD channels so far?

Have you seen any true HD on ESPN-HD yet (most ESPN-HD stuff is 4:3 SD, upconverted to 720p & stretched to 16:9, instead of 4:3 + sidebars, like all the other HD networks do)? If not, there's a football game on toninght. California @ KS State. ~ 6:45pm :)

Azanon

08-23-03, 07:15 PM

Ive found i can get 7-1, and 11-1 to go fullscreen if i switch the output from 1080i to 480p.

So far, i'm loving the HD channels. They are just stunning. I havnt seen a sporting event on ESPN on true HD yet, but yeah i knew that football game was coming on tonight. So far, i found a good HDTV tv guide at HDTVgalaxy.com. The only downside to that guide is that it doenst have HDmovies channel on it.

Tonight, im going for hawain tropic beauties on HD net, followed by Hack and the District on CBS, in HD. :)

Azanon

arxaw

08-23-03, 07:32 PM

I've watched almost every episode of The District. Other good series on CBS are CSI & CSI Miami.

As for guides, I just use the DirecTV EPG, and the remote:) All the stuff on HDnet, HDnetMovies & DiscoveryHD are HD. The few HD events on ESPN are marked "HD" in the EPG.

Most ABC primetime non-news series and movies are HD, as are MNFootball.
CBS primetime non-news non-reality series are all HD.

Some primtime series look "softer" than stuff seen on DSCHD & HDnet. Some of this is intentional, especially on ABC.

Azanon

08-24-03, 12:09 PM

I was a little disappointed last night to see that both hack and the district were only stereo audio. I'm using the optical out to my Sterero, and my receiver has a blue light that comes on whenever the audio source is in Dolby Digital. But i can look on the panel and tell the exact audio format, and last night it was just plain, left/right stereo for CBS.

I only had one dropout that lasted about 10-15 seconds, during hack.

arxaw

08-25-03, 08:58 AM

Originally posted by Azanon
I was a little disappointed last night to see that both hack and the district were only stereo audio.CBS has only recently attempted any DD 5.1 audio. I don't think any of their series this year are in DD 5.1, but maybe they will do some this fall. ABC & FOX supposedly do a lot more DD 5.1 than CBS. It will be widespread.... eventually.

I don't have a DD 5.1 system, so I don't know what's DD5.1 and what's not. I only have DPL, which works ok for me right now. I feed the L+R audio from the STB to the TV, and then out to the DPL receiver. The TV has an auto-sound-level feature, which I really like for leveling the volume between stations and lowering commercials' noise!

The CBS Owned & Operated (O & O) stations are supposed to be first in line for DD 5.1 satellite equipment. KTHV is not an O & O, so they may not have the DD5.1 installed yet.

Have you heard any DD5.1 at all on CBS? You might call KTHV-DT 376-1111 and ask to speak to Allison or anyone in engineering. They like to get reception reports from OTA viewers and are usually very helpful.

Or email Bob Ross at rjross@cbs.com He is in charge of CBS East Coast Operations, and is a member of AVS Forum.

Azanon

08-25-03, 03:03 PM

As I later learned from another forum, i dont think CBS is outputting DD 5.1 yet. AFAIK, ABC is though, and most if not all of their HD programming is in DD 5.1.

As i mentioned to you privately, an optical connection has all the capabilities of any lesser audio connection, thus is fullly sufficient at carrying DPL or whatever other type of sound format is being sent through it. I'm assuming at this point that CBS is not even sending DPL over their digital channel since my receiver is only showing front L&R audio on their HD shows.

I hope MNF tonight is in DD 5.1. That'll more than makeup for the upconvert my 1080i set must do to the 720p image.

Azanon

Azanon

08-25-03, 03:05 PM

.... but let me add that "true" HDTV is supposed to include DD 5.1 sound (or better). Not sure that's official or anything, but I thought that is generally what you are supposed to expect with HDTV programming. Then again, HD Discovery is not DD 5.1 either (whereas HDNet is).

arxaw

08-25-03, 05:47 PM

Originally posted by Azanon
.... but let me add that "true" HDTV is supposed to include DD 5.1 sound (or better). No.

It is AC3 digital audio, but can have anywhere from 1 to 5.1 channels.

--------------------------------------------

From Wikipedia.org (http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC3):

" Alias names

* Dolby Digital (promotion name, not accepted by the ATSC), often combined with channel count (DD 5.1)
* DD
* Dolby SR-Digital (for more than 2 channels)
* SR-D
* Audio Codec 3
* AC-3
* ATSC A/52 (name of the standard, current version is A/52 Rev. A)

This is all the same under different names.

Dolby Digital is the trademark for Dolby Laboratories' AC-3 lossy audio compression system. It supports anywhere from 1.0 channels (mono) to 5.1 channels (full surround) and also dual channel (1+1). "5.1" surround sound consists of the 5 full-range (10 Hz...22 kHz) channels (3 screen channels and 2 surround channels) plus the limited range (10 Hz...120 Hz) low frequency effect channel LFE.

The last version is Dolby Digital EX. an extension of dolby digital that provides 6.1 and 7.1 channel configurations by matrixing the channels (Dolby 5.1 otherwise uses discrete channel encoding.) This configuration offers more rear channels, and is less frequently used in home systems than in theaters.

The codec

The term AC-3 applies to the encoding process that creates the Dolby Digital files. Dolby Digital relies on perceptual coding to remove audio information that is disguised by other, louder frequencies in the waveform. In this sense it is an example of lossy data compression as these frequencies are not restored on playback.

Applications of Dolby Digital

Dolby Digital SR-D cinema sound tracks are optically recorded on a 35mm release print using sequential data blocks placed between every perforation hole on the sound track side of the film. A CCD scanner in the projector picks up a scanned video image of this area, and a processor correlates the image area and extracts the digital data as an AC-3 bitstream. This data is finally decoded into a 5.1 channel audio source.

Dolby Digital audio is also used on DVD Video and other purely digital media, like home cinema. In this format, the AC-3 bitstream is interleaved with the video and control bitstreams.

The system is used in many bandwidth-limited applications other than DVD, such as digital TV.

Bitrates range is from 32 to 640 kbits. For DVD data rates up to 448 kbps are allowed. AAC outperforms AC-3 at any bitrate, but is much more complex. Advantages of AAC become clearly audible at <400 kbps for 5.1 channels, at <180 kbps for 2.0 channels.

External links "

Azanon

08-25-03, 06:22 PM

OK.

But what can be taken from that, a DD capable link (ie: optical cable) should have no problem passing DD 4.0 sound - front, center, left, rear, no separate sub..... aka Dolby Pro-Logic.

^^

Dolby Digital is the trademark for Dolby Laboratories' AC-3 lossy audio compression system. It supports anywhere from 1.0 channels (mono) to 5.1 channels (full surround) and also dual channel (1+1). "5.1" surround sound consists of the 5 full-range (10 Hz...22 kHz) channels (3 screen channels and 2 surround channels) plus the limited range (10 Hz...120 Hz) low frequency effect channel LFE.

So what's up with CBS and their stereo on the Digital channel? Is this a limitation of an OTA antenna that I didnt know about?

arxaw

08-25-03, 07:44 PM

Originally posted by Azanon
... So what's up with CBS and their stereo on the Digital channel? Is this a limitation of an OTA antenna that I didnt know about? If you're referring to 2 channel audio (no surround), it could be several things. Your equipment may not be configured correctly OR it could be a digital flag sent by the station that disables your surround. I don't know.

DPL does work for me on KTHV-DT (CBS). You might contact the station and ask them about your lack of surround, or post in the Zenith STB forums, or in the audio forums.

I do know that it has absolutely nothing to do with a limitation of an OTA antenna.

Azanon

08-26-03, 07:34 AM

Hmm. OK i'll check in another forum then because it really shouldn't be necessary for me to set up a second audio link just to get pro-logic sound. I know for sure DD 5.1 is working cause it works fine on HDNet and HDMovies.

arxaw

08-26-03, 08:48 AM

Originally posted by Azanon
... it really shouldn't be necessary for me to set up a second audio link just to get pro-logic sound.I don't think that should be necessary, either. I only suggested connecting the analog L+R (RCA-type) cables for DPL because I know for sure that would work.

The Zenith SAT520 threads or perhaps the Audio Setup (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=91) threads would be more appropriate areas to ask these questions. Be sure and put your STB & AV receiver brand/model numbers in your posts or (better) your profile (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/usercp.php?s=), under "HT Gear".

Good luck!

Azanon

08-26-03, 09:51 AM

Getting back to your post above, i found this glossary at hdtvprimer.com:

Dolby Digital 5.1: Also known as AC-3, it provides 6 channels of sound: left, center, right, left rear, right rear, and sub-woofer. It is also called “5.1 channels” since the 6th channel has reduced bandwidth. Dolby Digital 5.1 is the audio standard for all U.S. digital TV stations, most DVDs, some DBS programs, and many theaters.

In the same glossary, AC-3 was listed. The definition? See Dolby Digital 5.1.

That AC-3, Dolby Digital 5.1, whatever, is backwards compatible I think would almost go without saying (ie: backwards compatible to Dolby Pro-Logic, or whathaveyou), though naturally it can be said. Regardless, AC-3, DD (5.1) or whatever synonym you choose to use IS the audio standard for HDTV. In my mind, if a station claims to be transmitting an HDTV signal, that signal should naturally carry an audio aspect, it should be transmitted in AC-3/DD5.1 format and should have NO difficulty outputting through one of the two only compatible digital forms of transmission - a Digital Optical cable or Digital Coaxial.

Said another way, IF the audio were to not work correctly - it should not work right on a red/white audio left+right, not my "appropriate" optical connection.

Sorry, it just erks me my HDTV audio cable (ac-3 compatible) isnt sufficient.

Azanon

arxaw

08-26-03, 10:27 AM

The reason I haven't bought a DD5.1 receiver yet is mainly because of the problems I've read about on the AVS Forum. The networks and stations don't have all the bugs worked out yet. DD problems have occured on both Satellite and OTA channels.

If the station is not sending the correct data flags, people have reported getting 2 channel sound, no sound, or no dialog on the digital connection. Another problem seems to be lip sync issues. I've never had those on my STB using DPL, but I have lost audio for weeks on KATV, mostly due to ignorance of how PSIP works and how it can affect audio.

Some local stations are really clueless about DTV. The cable company is even worse (scroll back and read some of the cable stories).

Here's part of an email I got regarding KATV PSIP problems that recently affected audio on my setup:
"As you've probably decided by now, DTV is a learning experience for everyone involved. There is only one person on our staff who has dealt with UHF transmitters before. No one is familiar with digital or PSIP. We strongly rely on Harris to guide us through the process and it appears Harris [equipt. mfg.] isn't as familiar as we had assumed.

In your problem one person at Harris told us to set the PSIP generator one way and another told us to set it up a different way to clear your problem. We can only try...."

____________________________________

Email the GM at KARK-DT and tell him you want NBC in HD.
pchester@kark.com

Azanon

08-26-03, 10:42 AM

Well, i'm going to give the audio L/R hookup a try tonight. If it turns out that's the culpret, and i'm able to get Pro-Logic that way, then i'll probably end up leaving it that way. I doubt the sound will work properly with both audio connections, connected at the same time.

I'm having to jerry-rig my sound right now anyway, since the only digital outs I have on my Receiver are both on my "DVD/LP" channel (one optical, and one coaxial) and thus, im forced to turn the DVD player off when i'm running the satellite (as to not send 2 sound fields into the same channel) and vise versa. Guess i'm too cheap to just buy a new receiver to get the satellite and DVD on their own channel, but if i end up running the satellite HD receiver on a plain audio L/R, then i'll just put it back in the "TV" channel on my receiver.

Azanon

Azanon

08-26-03, 11:25 AM

I just confirmed that MNF last night on abc, and some of the CBS shows that I watched WERE produced in DD 5.1. They simply weren't transmitted by our local stations in DD 5.1 OTA. Seems our local stations still have a ways to go with only 2 outputting HDTV video, and none thusfar outputting HDTV audio (aka, ac-3/DD5.1).

Azanon

arxaw

08-26-03, 01:25 PM

I would contact the stations and ask them if they have DD 5.1 capability. They may not, OR they may be incorrectly flagging the audio, causing your A/V receiver to default to 2 channel stereo.
KTHV-DT 501 376-1111 (ask for Allison or engineers)
KATV-DT 501 324-7790 (Master Control number)

Does your A/V receiver have DPL II ? If so, I would use that, at least until the stations get their act together. DPL II is supposed to sound remarkably close to DD.

____________________________________

Email the GM at KARK-DT and tell him you want NBC in HD.
pchester@kark.com

hpb

08-26-03, 01:26 PM

Speaking of MNF.

Maybe I was a little tired last night but the picture quality was not very consistent. There were some major differences in quality of the various cameras used and some of the on screen graphics looked blurry.

Just me or did any one else notice this?

Azanon

08-26-03, 01:40 PM

The image on MNF last night was pretty clear for me, except i'd see occasional pixelation, say, on someone's arm, but then it'd go away. The sound would also make a quick hiss sound on occasion. There is considerable discussiong going on about MNF last night in "HDTV Programming" including the sound problem I seem to be happening. The concensus so far is that it is issues at the local TV stations.

I will say the image was not of the quality of ESPN's HD football game just shown a few days ago, and supposedly both abc and espn are outputting 720p, suggesting that abc could use some improvement.

Arxaw, i'm going to first try the audio left/right tonight and see if i can at least get dolby pro-logic. If i cant, and you have confirmed that you can, then that would suggest that maybe something's wrong on my end.
Then again, it would probably be easier for me to break a steel ball than to mess up connecting one optical audio cable to a stereo and/or a red/white rca cable :).

Azanon

hpb

08-26-03, 05:52 PM

azanon,

Thanks for the heads up on the MNF thread. Some others are speculating that ABC may have used some 480p cameras in the wide overhead shots. That's where I saw the difference in PQ. The closeups looked great though.

I have 130" image projected from my NEC 10pg crt projector so small defects are greatly magnified.

hpb

Neil L

08-26-03, 06:36 PM

You guys in LR are not the only ones with sound problems. I get my DTV from Memphis. Can't get ABC most of the time so I can't comment on them, but CBS and NBC only send DD 2.0 sound. I can usually get two other DTV stations that are not HD. Ones digital sound is center channel only, and the other stations is right channel only. So I use the analog connection to my receiver also, and just use pro-logic. Much better sound than any of those other options.

arxaw

08-26-03, 07:28 PM

WRT to MNF on KATV-DT looking somewhat less-than-HD:

Part of the problem may be due to KATV's insistence on simulcasting in SD on 7-2 all the time. Subchannel 7-2 serves no purpose during a 16:9 HD broadcast, but it does take bandwidth away from the HD channel. This may explain some of the loss of resolution.

I doubt that they will stop using subchannels. I hear they have plans to air a 24/7 news loop on 7-2, as soon as they figure out how to do it (that may take a while...).
____________________________________

Email the GM at KARK-DT and tell him you want NBC in HD.
pchester@kark.com

Azanon

08-27-03, 12:40 AM

Well i found a temporary fix for my sound problem. The sound sorce for abc, and i believe cbs for the HD programs is usually DD 5.1, but we're just not getting transmitted that here locally. Since the "flag" for the sound is dd 5.1, but end users arn't receiving 5.1, my receiver gets confused and just reverts to DD 2.0, and outputs it exactly like that, IF i have it set to "a.f.d." which is a mode that attempts to simply identify the sound type.

My work around for now is to just use one of sony's "digital cinema surround" fields which default to a Front left, center, right, rear dual or single channel, and then the sound is output in a modified pro-logic form for cbs and abc.

arxaw

08-27-03, 09:18 AM

Sony's "Digital Cinema Surround" is probably the same as or very similar to DPLII, which usually sounds very good.

___________________________________

Email the GM at KARK-DT and tell him you want NBC in HD.
pchester@kark.com

arxaw

08-28-03, 08:59 AM

Originally posted by Azanon
My work around for now is to just use one of sony's "digital cinema surround" fields which default to a Front left, center, right, rear dual or single channel, and then the sound is output in a modified pro-logic form for cbs and abc. Azanon,
Have you tried toggling the Zenith STB audio output between PCM & DD?

Selecting PCM may give you more sound options or better sound via the digital audio connection.

____________________________________

Email the GM at KARK-DT and tell him you want NBC in HD.
pchester@kark.com

tmcelmurry

08-28-03, 08:53 PM

I thought I would let everyone know that Inhd is on Comcast in Little rock now. It is showing up on channel 174.

Azanon

08-29-03, 09:19 AM

Have you tried toggling the Zenith STB audio output between PCM & DD?

Sorry, not sure what PCM is. Are you asking me if i've compared Stereo L/R output to Dolby Digital?

I can tell you even before i do that, that the dolby digital will certainly be superior to DPL on stations that use it (HDNet, HD Movies, HD PPV). Dolby digital is amazing. I'm sort of surprised you're putting this off.

Azanon

hpb

08-29-03, 03:23 PM

What 's INHD

hpb

08-29-03, 03:28 PM

PCM is Pulse Code Modulation.

It is how "normal" left +right stereo is stored in a digital format. Audio CDs use PCM as the format to store the digital data stream to the disc.

Most if not all DVD players and home receivers have a setting to switch from DD 5.1 to PCM. This allows you to use the Digital to analog converters in your receiver (they are usually of a much higher quality) instead of the D to A converters in your DVD/STB.

You will still need to use either digital coax or toslink if you switch to PCM. Your L+R RCA connectors are not used.

jstrossner

08-29-03, 06:28 PM

What 's INHD

It's a new hd channel.
http://www.inhd.com/

Azanon

09-15-03, 08:27 AM

If anyone from KTHV or KATV is reading this forum, can one of you tell me when you guys intend to transmit DD 5.1 sound to go with the HD picture on your digital stations?

I live here in WLR, and get both HD channels via OTA antenna with no dropouts, but it would sure be nice to hear DD 5.1 sound to go with the beautiful picture.

HDNet is easily the most impressive channel I have, simply because the combination of picture and DD 5.1 sound is amazing.

Thanks,

arxaw

09-15-03, 10:33 AM

Azanon,

Did you notice any difference between the DD5.1 & PCM settings on your Zenith STB?

Did "PCM" give you better sound or more options to control DD 2-channel sound?

Azanon

09-15-03, 01:04 PM

No it did not. Going to PCM didnt give me any new options for non-DD 5.1 sources. I still had to manually tell the receiver to use a DPL sound field. On DD 5.1 stations (ie: HDNet), i didnt get DD 5.1 sound using PCM, so using the "dolby digital" setting is a must it seems.

Azanon

10-15-03, 11:19 AM

Saw this in the HDTV programming forum:
"
An engineer from the Dallas-Fort Worth UPN affiliate, KTXA-DT/TV is reporting that effective next week we'll be seeing Wednesday's broadcast of "Enterprise", "Jake 2.0", and some of the Friday night UPN movies in HD! So this is major good news, even if it does create a new programming conflict for me ("Enterprise" and "Smallville", head to head in HD)...

For those who are curious to see the original posting for themselves, go to <http://dhtg.napurano.com/> and follow the links to the HD programming forum.

"

I get 38-1 perfect, so I guess i'm wondering if our local UPN will be ready to transmit HD signals, or is 38-1 currently just DTV?

Azanon

arxaw

10-16-03, 10:14 AM

Originally posted by Azanon
... I get 38-1 perfect, so I guess i'm wondering if our local UPN will be ready to transmit HD signals... I have been informed by KLRT/KASN Chief Engineer Allen Finne that Little Rock/Pine Bluff UPN affiliate KASN-DT (38-1) may have Enterprise in HD next week :)

Thanks Allen!

-- Sam

arxaw

10-16-03, 10:15 AM

Azanon, what channel are you receiving "Smallville" on in HD?

Azanon

10-16-03, 12:27 PM

Sam,

Ok i think i'm confused. Is "WB" and UPN 38 the same station? I havent been watching smallville, but i assume it would come on both 38, and 38-1 on wednesday night. I'm not at the house right now, so i can verify with my channel lineup. My understanding was that UPN 38 wasn't transmitting HD signals here locally.

Our channel lists should be the same, Sam. I'm using DTV/OTA like you.

But supposedly, last night was the first night that UPN showed Enterprise in HD. I was not at home at the time, so i wasnt there to see if Enterprise was being shown in HD.

Azanon

Azanon

10-16-03, 12:30 PM

I pretty much only watch HD channels now, except for the occasional CNN, or maybe SNL on sat night. I'd rather watch paint dry in HDTV, than most any SD station.

arxaw

10-16-03, 01:17 PM

Originally posted by Azanon
... Is "WB" and UPN 38 the same station? No.

KWBF (the WB) is broadcast on analog channel 42. AFAIK, they don't even have a digital channel assigned yet. Smallville is a WB program, not UPN.

KASN (UPN) is broadcast on analog channel 38 & digital channel 39.

Azanon

10-16-03, 02:03 PM

That's great new about Enterprise. What about Jake 2.0, and the UPN Friday night movie? Here's a post from another UPN local affiliate (not Little Rock) from the HDTV programming forums:

"If you want to spread the news to the forum.....UPN is feeding us native 1080i on Enterprise and Jake2.0 starting tomorrow at 8 PM._ UPN will also feed the Friday UPN movie in native HD starting on the 24th of October at 8 PM with "Double Take"._ As far as I know Wednesday nites will continue in HD until further notice._ movies on fridays will be occasionally HD not always._ Audio is in Stereo not 5.1"

Another HDTV station to add to the mix! Wee! Who will be next?

And for my closure:
Hello KARK and KLRT, 20th century called.... they want their SD programming back! LOL.

Azanon

Azanon

10-16-03, 02:25 PM

I sent this email to KARK today, specifically gyarbrough@kark.com

"Dear KARK,

Just writing a brief email to say that I look forward to you guys adding HDTV transmissions to your capabilities. I'm currently receiving HDTV transmission from both CBS and ABC via my OTA antenna, but would be overjoyed to be able to add KARK/NBC to the mix with great programs such as Law and Order and Jay Leno. To be completely honest, I no longer watch NBC for this reason, and felt it was only fair that I told you guys why you have lost me as a viewer.

Sincerely,

Bradley Myers"

Azanon

jstrossner

10-22-03, 02:59 PM

Has anyone in Central AR recently purchased/upgraded to the Sony hd300 receiver? I got one last week and I'm having problems with Katv (7.1). Abc comes in fine on my hd100 and built-in xbr2 tuner, but is very pixelated on the 300 and drops out. I get a signal strength of 86 on the hd100 and barely to the N in normal on the hd300. I have tried a second 300 and it gives a no signal message. I can switch from the 100 to the 300 with consistent results--good on the 100 and unwatchable on the 300.

Sam, Allen, any ideas or suggestions?

Any word on PBS?

Thanks,
Jeff

allenf

10-22-03, 03:20 PM

I am pleased to announce that KASN-DT will be broadcasting UPN Network in HD Wednesday and Friday evenings beginning tonight.

Azanon

10-22-03, 11:39 PM

That's awesome allen... i'll make sure and tune in for some HD UPN.

arxaw

10-23-03, 07:15 AM

Thanks, Allen!

Your hard work is appreciated :)

--
Sam

arxaw

10-23-03, 07:28 AM

Originally posted by jstrossner
... I can switch from the 100 to the 300 with consistent results-- [abc is] good on the 100 and unwatchable on the 300. That's odd that you're having problems on two separate 300s. A very wild guess here, but perhaps the tuners in that new model STB have a problem with certain channels? I would definitely call Sony or LG and explain your problem to them. If they offer no suggestions, return the 300 for refund while you can.

I'm getting 100% SS on KATV-DT here with a CM 42221 mounted on the chimney. I also get KATV-DT ~93% using 2 horizontally stacked Silver Sensors in the attic, aimed at a hill roughly 110° away from the transmitter.

Antenna pics here (http://home.swbell.net/arxaw/antennas/)

jstrossner

10-23-03, 08:51 AM

Sam--I called Sony yesterday. They'll look in to the matter. A guy in Roanoke, VA got an LG yesterday and is having similar problems with his FOX station and some breakups on ABC--they both come in fine on a Samsung.

Allen--picture looked great last night!

arxaw

10-23-03, 10:05 AM

jstrossner,
This may be way out in left field, but if you want to, try:

1. Removing your ZIP Code (or change it to all Zeros) in the setup menus.
2. Reboot and rescan the local OTA digitals.

See if that makes any difference in reception.

jstrossner

10-23-03, 01:33 PM

1. Removing your ZIP Code (or change it to all Zeros) in the setup menus.
2. Reboot and rescan the local OTA digitals.

See if that makes any difference in reception.
__________________________________________________________

Sam,
Tried the above with no success. It seems that some folks on the east coast are having similar problems with the LG version.

arxaw

10-23-03, 06:36 PM

I'd return it.

Sounds like most other typical newly-released STBs lately. Not quite ready for prime time.... :(

I've looked at that STB, but didn't like the fact that you can't make a custom guide the default guide. You have to step through some stupid menus to get to a custom guide. Whose idea was that?

Azanon

10-27-03, 01:44 PM

Allen,

Last night was my first opportunity to watch Enterprise on digital UPN (38-1 for me) and see if it was being broadcasted in HDTV. Unfortunately, it was not. Do you know what was up?

Thanks,

Azanon

Xesdeeni

10-27-03, 03:31 PM

Apparently the repeats on the weekend are not being broadcast in HD. Only the Wednesday night show.

Xesdeeni

arxaw

10-27-03, 07:57 PM

According to Allen's previous post, currently, UPN broadcasts HD on Wednesday & Friday nights only.

Xesdeeni

10-28-03, 08:46 AM

Actually, I live in Dallas and the repeated broadcast isn't in HD here either. It could be because the local affiliate can't record the show for later broadcast, but I think it is more likely because UPN doesn't re-broadcast it in HD. So you might not be able to blame your AR UPN affiliate in this case.

Xesdeeni

arxaw

10-28-03, 03:26 PM

Originally posted by jstrossner
... Any word on PBS? Got this from AETN today:
QUOTE:
AETN Engineering staff is anticipating receiving an extension from the FCC for delayed sign-on until May 2004. We are currently in the process of installing digital microwave links between the production center in Conway and the five transmitters across the state.

:(

Azanon

10-29-03, 08:50 AM

According to Allen's previous post, currently, UPN broadcasts HD on Wednesday & Friday nights only.

Then who's responsible for putting the "HD" symbol on my program menu, UPN or DirectTV? I assume UPN is since DirectTV only knows what they are told. There was definitely "HD" indicated besides Enterprise sunday night.

I'm already considering cancelling showtime because twice now the HD symbol is listed on the menu, and i look foward to seeing it, then it turns out that its actually single definition.

I've become one of those folks that'd rather watch paint dry in HD than see the Super Bowl in SD.

arxaw

10-29-03, 09:46 AM

Originally posted by Azanon
...who's responsible for putting the "HD" symbol on my program menu, UPN or DirectTV? The data is supplied by Tribune Media Services. They sell programming guide info to DirecTV.
http://www.tms.tribune.com/products.html
http://biz.zap2it.com/

Send complaints to:
listings@zap2it.com

They are also incorrectly showing NBC HD programs for KARK-DT as being in "HD". Of course, KARK is too cheap to buy HD equipment and has no HD broadcasts.

arxaw

10-31-03, 10:15 AM

Has anyone else noticed audio problems lately on (CBS) KTHV-DT, 11-1? It's a sort of "stuttering" sound on CBS network programming. Local seems to be OK.

If you have noticed this problem, please report it to:
technicalservices@todaysthv.com

hpb

10-31-03, 06:53 PM

Yes, me too.

I'm glad someone else is having problems. I was starting to believe my receiver was failing.

Anyone have direct phone #'s to the KTHV engineers we can call to let them know when it's happening?

arxaw

10-31-03, 07:50 PM

Originally posted by hpb
Yes, me too.

I'm glad someone else is having problems. I was starting to believe my receiver was failing.

Anyone have direct phone #'s to the KTHV engineers we can call to let them know when it's happening?

During the day, you can call 501 376-1111
At night, call the 24 hour news line. I think it's 501 244-4565 (if not, it's in the book).
They *will* let the MCO know.

I heard from a friend that the problem is coming from a new satellite receiver that KTHV recently received from CBS. Probably for the DD 5.1 conversion. Hopefully, they can get the problem resolved soon, because channel 11's analog reception sucks at my house.

shaneotool

11-03-03, 10:19 AM

Hey guys I just got a 65" Mits and can hardly wait to get some HDTV. Hopefully E* will get that new 811 box out this month.

I'm in Hot Springs and according to antennaweb I should be able to get cbs and fox. (fingers crossed). These are the only two digital stations that are on the website. i know there are more, as you all are talking about UPN.

I'm wondering about UPN and KATV - How strong are these signals compared to cbs and fox. Or is katv transmitting hdtv at all?

arxaw

11-03-03, 10:47 AM

Unless you're in a valley surrounded by hills:
If you get a good fringe antenna and low noise preamp (CM 7777), you can probably get this full power station:
(FOX) KLRT-DT 16-1 (RF ch 30) (FOX has no HDTV, only "digital"). 1,000 kW ERP

You may also be able get these stations:
(CBS) KTHV-DT 11-1 (RF ch 12) (HDTV) 27.5 kW ERP
(Radar)KTHV-DT 11-2 (RF ch 12) (Live local radar) 27.5 kW ERP
(UPN) KASN-DT 38-1 (RF ch 39) (HDTV) 1,000 kW ERP Pine Bluff

I doubt seriously if you can get these low power stations as far away as Hot Springs:
(NBC) KARK-DT 4-1 (RF ch 32) (No NBC HDTV and very low power - 4kW ERP)
(ABC) KATV-DT 7-1 (RF ch 22) (HDTV) 30kW ERP Pine Bluff

http://antennaweb.org is a good starting point for station reception probability and an antenna aiming map, but is not always accurate.

arxaw

11-03-03, 10:49 AM

bump edit

shaneotool

11-03-03, 10:59 AM

Thanks arxaw,
I really hope I can pull in CBS and UPN, I'll be pissed if I drop a lot of money setting up an antenna for nothing.
Any plans for these stations to go full power in the near future?
And what do you all think of the CM 2030 - they have one at Lowes, it looks pretty good.

arxaw

11-03-03, 11:21 AM

Originally posted by shaneotool
...I really hope I can pull in CBS and UPN, I'll be pissed if I drop a lot of money setting up an antenna for nothing.
Any plans for these stations to go full power in the near future?
And what do you all think of the CM 2030 - they have one at Lowes, it looks pretty good. [I'd be pissed if I dropped thousands on an HDTV and couldn't get any locals]

If you're referring to the CM 3020, it's a good antenna. Just don't pay any attention to the "mileage" rating that it, or any other antenna lists. Ask Lowes if you can return it if it doesn't work for you.

You will need a good high gain LOW NOISE preamp. A preamp is an antenna amp that connects outside on the mast, near the antenna. One that many people in this forum have had good luck with is the CM 7777 VHF/UHF preamp. You can get one from Warren Electronics (http://www.warrenelectronics.com/Antennas/HDTV_preamps.htm) or Solid Signal online for about 60 bucks. Don't bother with the cheaper models sold at Lowe's or Rat Shack. Many of them don't work well, and are a crap shoot at best.

Do you live in a valley? Are there tall hills between you and the stations' transmitters? This may affect reception a lot. Does your TV have a built in OTA tuner?

You may also want to contact the stations and ask if they have "digital" viewers in your area. Call and ask to speak to Master Control Op or an engineer.

shaneotool

11-03-03, 12:19 PM

Thanks for the help arxaw, I sent an email to ch 11 and they said if I could get the analog signal than I shoud be able to get the digital signal. This sounds like BS. Hopefully I'll find out by the end of the month. I have to wait for the 811 as my tv doesn't have a tuner. I'll post here with my results.

allenf

11-04-03, 07:53 AM

Shane.

I'm curious as to why you'd think KTHV's response is BS?

Azanon

11-04-03, 08:12 AM

Holy Cow, why didnt i check this forum sooner.

I've also been getting the studdering on channel 11 at times (such as during last week's "Without a Trace"), and though my receiver was going bad. Man, I sure am glad to hear that it isnt just me.

Shane, i barely get KTHV analog (it is unwatchable), but i get digital KTHV perfect, with no dropouts (not counting the studdering everyone is having problems with).

Azanon

arxaw

11-04-03, 09:39 AM

Originally posted by shaneotool
... I sent an email to ch 11 and they said if I could get the analog signal than I shoud be able to get the digital signal. This sounds like BS... Not really BS, assuming a digital station is broadcasting at sufficient power. Digital is more efficient, so it only takes a fraction of the power needed for a comparable analog station, other things being equal. It's a very rough estimate, though.

Sometimes the opposite is true. A digital station may be receivable, while the analog is unwatchable, due to ghosts or snow. That is true at my house, where multipath ghosts make some analog channels unwatchable on my big screen tv. However, the digital channel on the same antenna comes in perfectly. Here are some screen grabs (http://home.swbell.net/arxaw/kthv.html) of analog vs digital on my TV. They are from a cheapie digital camera, so the quality isn't too great, but you can see the difference.

About the only way to find out for sure if you can receive DTV is to try it at your house. You can purchase OTA tuners at Best Buy, Sears or Circuit City - they all take STB returns. If you can't receive anything, just can return the box for a full refund. Lowe's may take the antenna back that you mentioned, if it's in good condition. You can buy a CM 7777 preamp at warrnelectronics.com or solidsignal.com. They may not take returns, but you could easily sell the preamp on eBay or on the links at the top of this page.

You'll have to ask Dish folks about their STB return policy though. I would call some of the local Dish installers in Hot Springs, or Custom Satellite (http://yp.yahoo.com/py/ypResults.py?Pyt=&stx=custom+satellite&stp=a&city=Little+Rock&state=AR&zip=72227&uzip=72227&country=us&msa=4400&cs=5&ed=qNnAiq1o2Twpq8Te_qqwhY7vo.yKSQPsPJd.VTAqqimb&doprox=) in LR.

arxaw

11-04-03, 09:48 AM

Originally posted by Azanon
...I've also been getting the studdering on channel 11 at times (such as during last week's "Without a Trace"), and though my receiver was going bad. Man, I sure am glad to hear that it isnt just me. Azanon,
It may have been during KTHV's DD 5.1 upgrade attempt. The sat receiver they got was defective. They've switched back to their old equipment, so the problem should be gone now. Here's a portion of an email I received from them re the problem:

>From: "Wilson, Russell" <rwilson@kthv.gannett.com>
>Subject: KTHV-DT audio

>.... CBS recently delivered a
>new HD decoder to KTHV. This decoder has some intermittent audio
>problems and has been removed form service. The old equipment is back
>on line.
>
>If you continue to have problems please let me know by email or give
>me a phone call at
>501 376-1111
>
>Thanks for you help.
>
>Russell Wilson
>KTHV

arxaw

11-04-03, 09:51 AM

allenf,

I noticed y'all have been doing HD promo ads on KASN UPN38-1.
Nice to see your station promoting HDTV :)

shaneotool

11-04-03, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by allenf
Shane.

I'm curious as to why you'd think KTHV's response is BS?

I just thought it sounded like too easy of an answer. I also thought the digital signal was not as powerful as the analog they are transmitting. But maybe they were right. If so, that's good for me because I know you can receive analog CBS in Hot Springs with an antenna.

Azanon

11-04-03, 03:57 PM

DD 5.1 upgrade attempt? Wow, i cant wait!

allenf

11-06-03, 07:51 AM

OK guys,

Which show Enterprise or Jake2.0 do you find to be technically superior in HD? My vote is for Jake. Enterprise seems to have an overall "soft" look.Your thoughts?

arxaw

11-06-03, 09:07 AM

In terms of PQ, Jake 2.0 is better, IMO.
They both seem a bit "soft"; a bit too filmlike for me.

They still look a helluva lot better than Standard Def!

Azanon

11-06-03, 11:03 AM

I play tennis wed night, so i wind up missing them both. i'll get to see them this winter though.

allenf

11-12-03, 08:39 PM

Well Darn!!!

You guys may have noticed that the HD side went down about 20 minutes into Enterprise this evening. Called in and walked the MCO through trouble-shooting the problem.Got things working around 7:30. Turned out to be a LOOSE power plug on the 4x1 HD switcher. Now why in the world would it run just fine for days on end and decide to go intermittant 20 minutes into a HD program????? What can I say? Hope you won't beat me up TOO bad over something as silly as a power plug!

Allen

arxaw

11-13-03, 02:41 PM

Yep. Had to jump to the ANALog channel, but flipped back later during a break and noticed y'all had it fixed. Thanks!

S**t happens :)

Azanon

11-13-03, 03:22 PM

It sucked cause i missed the history lesson on the skaggs (sp) and the humans in that jail scene. but it happens :D

Azanon

11-17-03, 11:42 PM

Boo! Britney Spears was only in single definition tonight on KATV though it was broadcasted in HD nationally.

I sure hope CBS/KTHV doesnt let us down wednesday night with the Victoria Secret Special.

Azanon

arxaw

11-18-03, 08:31 AM

Azanon,
When katv forgets to "throw the HD switch", go here:
http://www.katv.com/contact.hrb

Send comments to:
Engineering
Programming
General Manager
(In some browsers you can send the message to one department, then hit your browser's BACK button and send the same message to the next dept., etc.)

Big_Nate

11-20-03, 02:33 PM

Can't believe I've been coming to this site for a long time and only now noticed this thread ha!

I'd like to start getting HDTV OTA stuff, but I need some advice please. I live in Maumelle, Arkansas, which is northeast of I-430 and borders North Little Rock. I would normally get OTA broadcasts just fine, but unfortunately my house is on the side of a large hill that is opposite of the broadcast antennas. I've tried a directional mast-mounted antenna before (this is just SDTV stuff) and it didn't pick up stuff very well at all (this was without an amp).

I may be under some misconceptions here, but would HD signals be easier to pick up for me? I pick up the ABC channel (non-hd) just fine with a set-top antenna, except it suffers from a little ghosting. What kind of HDTV antenna should I use, an omni or directional one?

Any help/hints would be appreciated, thanks!

nj829

11-20-03, 02:33 PM

Is anyone on the dishnetwork and tried to get a waiver to receive CBS-HD? I am in Hot Springs, and am unable to receive any type of signal from Little Rock (probably due to my use of amplified bunny ears).

shaneotool

11-20-03, 03:06 PM

nj829 - what kind of antenna did you use to try to get signals from Little Rock? just bunny ears?

I'm going to be putting up an antenna this weekend - I hope I have better luck. I really want to see the hogs vs LSU next week in HD.

nj829

11-20-03, 03:55 PM

I am just using the bunny ears, i can get UPN 38, channel 26, are pretty good. 11, 7 are very fuzzy, and 4 is almost non-existant. I know that with the Samsung, if it gets any signal, it will lock that channel in, and so far I have been out of luck on that front.

arxaw

11-20-03, 04:44 PM

nj829,
Get a decent Channel Master VHF/UHF Outdoor fringe antenna and CM 7777 preamp.
Don't bother with Radio Shack junk.

You can order antennas at solidsignal.com or warrenelectronics.com Both are reliable sources.

I don't think KTHV will give you a waiver for CBS on Dish, since you're within KTHV's grade-b coverage area.

arxaw

11-20-03, 04:59 PM

Originally posted by Big_Nate
... I'd like to start getting HDTV OTA stuff... If you're in Maumelle, you're not very far from Shinalll Mtn, where about half the stations are. The rest are in Redfield.

I would try a CM 4221 UHF antenna + CM 7777 preamp. Although the CM 4221 is designed for UHF stations only, it will often pick up VHF stations like KTHV-DT, especially if they're nearby. See my previous post for two online sources, or search Google for more.

As for aiming, if you're surrounded by hills you'll just have to experiment until hopefully you find a sweet spot for receiving all the stations. If you get some of the stations in one direction, only to lose others, you'll need a rotor, or get two antennas and an A/B switch, to jump between the two antennas.

arxaw

11-21-03, 10:39 AM

A friend of mine lives in LR, in a deep valley surrounded by hills. He's tried OTA HDTV, but gave up because he never could get ABC. He is interested in the LG LST-3100A 8VSB OTA/QAM cable STB (http://*********************/zenith_HD_PDR.htm), but is afraid he won't be able to get any digital cable channels.

Does anyone know which comcast QAM digital channels are unencrypted in LR? I know that at one time, ABC-HD (7), CBS-HD (11) & ESPN-HD were "in the clear", but need to know if that's changed....

Azanon

11-23-03, 12:15 AM

I might have misunderstood both your post and the item you're linking but this might help:

Comcast digital cable, and their HDTV package, requires that you use their STB (Motorola 5100), so an alternative STB such as the one you're linking is not an option in Little Rock. The only other routes for HDTV, as you know, is DirectTV and Dish Network that unit doesnt support. OTA "only" HDTV STB units should be much cheaper (100 dollars?).

Comcast's policy is to add DTV as they become HDTV capable, which is why I "assume" they still only provide 7 and 11. They went on record stating as soon as a new local station provides HDTV transmission, they will add it to their lineup.

Azanon

11-23-03, 12:42 AM

I didnt realize how bad my antenna sucked until tonight - well depending on how you look at it.

Lately ive been getting dropouts on KTHV-DT, but i used to get it in 100% of the time. Well, just for kicks, i plugged a plain jane dipole antenna (no UHF loop) and, in a sweet spot, i got in DT 4, 7, 11, 16, and 38 with only dropouts here and there (i didnt try WB and the others). With the batwing I have on my roof now, i just get the ones at redfield - the direction its pointed (DT 2, 7, 38, but 11 cuts in and out, no 16 or 4 or WB).

Tomorrow, im going to go get a silver sensar and see how that does, for a short term solution to not being able to get in all the channels. "If" i can get all the channels at Shinall with that, then i guess i could get a switcher and go back and forth between by batwing. The downside to silver sensar + a/b switcher is i get negative marks from the wife because im jerry rigging up the living room.

The best solution would be a better outdoor antenna that gets them all without a rotar. The batwing i have now is mouted on the back of my D* dish. Hopefully i can find an alternative UHF antenna that will mount onto it easily, as i have no boy scout skills. (Just climbing up on my 2 story roof will make me nervous enough) "Since" i managed to get both 7 and almost 38 with just a dipole antenna (VHF only!) amonst the others stations on the bottom floor of my house, surely i can get all stations with an outdoor UHF antenna pointed "somewhere".

arxaw

11-23-03, 11:31 AM

Azanon,
I remember the antenna that Bwy Satellite installed for you. They are not very good. The only reason they install them is because they're easy. No extra mast involved.

arxaw

11-23-03, 11:59 AM

Originally posted by Azanon
... Comcast digital cable, and their HDTV package, requires that you use their STB (Motorola 5100), so an alternative STB such as the one you're linking is not an option in Little Rock. The only other routes for HDTV, as you know, is DirectTV and Dish Network that unit doesnt support. OTA "only" HDTV STB units should be much cheaper (100 dollars?).

Comcast's policy is to add DTV as they become HDTV capable, which is why I "assume" they still only provide 7 and 11. They went on record stating as soon as a new local station provides HDTV transmission, they will add it to their lineup. I've seen 7 & 11 HD on comcast digital cable being received "in the clear" with only a QAM tuner. No comcast 5100 box was used, and the cable subscription was "analog basic" only. NO digital sub. I heard that ESPN-HD and the basic digital tier also were receiveable, but can't confirm.

IIRC, comcast policy is to send OTA HD channels (ie 7 & 11) unencrypted, but need to know for sure if other channels (ESPN-HD, etc.) are stil receivable without renting a 5100 from them and only using a QAM capable tuner like the LG 3100A.

If the 3100A were available locally, my friend would just buy one and try it. If it didn't work, he would return it. But right now, the 3100A is only available online. If he can find out for sure which channels are unencrypted, he'll order one online. If not, he's dumping comcast for the FREE Dish HD special at Sears or Custom Satellite (Free 3 room system installed. One of the 3 boxes can be either their new Dish 811 HD STB or a DishDVR non-HD box.).

Azanon

11-23-03, 06:05 PM

If one is receiving comcast cable, IMHO its crazy to just not rent their motorola 5100. Any cutting edge technology like anything associated with HDTV is evolving literallly monthly, and even conservatively, yearly. At only 5$ per month, you'd have to rent 5 years just to pay for that STB. I'd opt for renting if it were me.

arxaw

11-24-03, 09:45 AM

My friend tells me the "$5" per month is not exactly true.

He had basic cable only (no STB), when he ordered HD. When he ordered HD, comcast told him all he needed to add to his basic analog cable to get the local OTA HD channels & ESPN-HD was the Moto 5100, which he could rent for $5 a month. A couple of months later, they informed him that the $5 HD special only lasted x number of months (I forget how many), and he would have to move up to one of their digital tiers (another bill increase), plus pay the $5/month HD STB rental.

Bottom line, his monthly cable bill is going up over $15/month just to get the OTA local HD channels & ESPN-HD, which was all he wanted to add to his basic programming. AND after the first of the year, he said his bill will go up again, so it will be over $20/month higher than what he was originally paying for basic (no-STB) cable.

The whole thing is moot anyway. He called me last night and told me he ordered the Dish special and will be dropping comcast.