WAKA analog is down too. But for good. And all that's there is a roll saying that channel is now obsolete, from "The Big 8." This just marks the beginning of a historically-momentus event. Wait, was that a tear? Nah, something flew in my eye.

Winds are extremely high. I wonder if this is related?

Sounds plausible. My power went out for a couple of minutes a little before 9:00. All when the winds were at their peak.

THEN...towards the end of the banner it said that if you see the banner then you don't have to anything...that your receiver is already up to snuff. SAY WHAT!!!???? Now, I know I must have missed something....certainly they didn't run a digital banner that only a digital receiver could receive to tell whoever received it that they didn't have to do anything for the upcoming changeover to all-digital because their equipment was good enough? Huh?


That caught my attention too in the "why are they bothering to do that."

The only thing that makes any sense is that if you happen to also have an analog OTA TV that you don't watch all the time, you might catch the message on the digital channel.

Any one having problems with WSFA SD this morning? All I'm getting is a pink screen using Dish Network. All other channels work fine.

Was watching the ballgames Saturday and WAKA's audio kept dropping out...but I was letting it slide. Finally the "We gotta dump the analog feed this November..." banner started scrolling across the screen. I figured it wouldn't last too long and was going to deal with it until it went off.

THEN...towards the end of the banner it said that if you see the banner then you don't have to anything...that your receiver is already up to snuff. SAY WHAT!!!???? Now, I know I must have missed something....certainly they didn't run a digital banner that only a digital receiver could receive to tell whoever received it that they didn't have to do anything for the upcoming changeover to all-digital because their equipment was good enough? Huh?

That sound confusing? I was too. I switched over to WTVY for the rest of the day and didn't have to deal with the banner covering up the field of play nor the audio dropouts.

Does it make sense for us to run a digital banner that only a digital receiver could receive to tell people they don't need to do anything to receive a digital signal? No. Unfortunately, the FCC, in their infinite wisdom, REQUIRES all TV stations to run these DTV education crawls, not only on their analog channel, but on their PRIMARY DIGITAL channel as well. Not only that, but the law requires all TV stations to run these DTV education crawls until March 31, 2009...a month and a half AFTER everyone has shut down their analog transmitters.

After we started running the crawl, we got calls from people who thought they were OK because they were watching the digital signal, but wanted to call and make sure, since they saw the crawl, so we decided to add the bit to the end saying if you see this crawl, you are OK.

So, we agree it makes no sense, but the FCC makes us do it. Now that the crawl is essentially useless, I'm going to try to make it as short and unobtrusive as possible.

On the analog dropouts, we are still working to correct that. We've replaced or bypassed several pieces of equipment, but haven't been able to isolate the problem yet. We are continuing to work on the problem and hope to resolve it soon.

Russ

Thanks for keeping us in the loop! As always tv 8 is the best in Montgomery at that. The sound drop outs seem to be more now than before last week! Please keep trying to find the problem. Thanks again.
Charles

Bob Howell just did a good job explaining their digital channel outage. It seems a tree fell near their transmitter and knocked out the power. All is well now.

Does it make sense for us to run a digital banner that only a digital receiver could receive to tell people they don't need to do anything to receive a digital signal? No. Unfortunately, the FCC, in their infinite wisdom, REQUIRES all TV stations to run these DTV education crawls, not only on their analog channel, but on their PRIMARY DIGITAL channel as well. Not only that, but the law requires all TV stations to run these DTV education crawls until March 31, 2009...a month and a half AFTER everyone has shut down their analog transmitters.

I think that the FCC has erred on this approach. Why run this message on the digital side as well? It only waters down the message. Most people are probably numb to the crawls by now and other analog shut-downs today, such as WGGB in Springfield, MA suggest the crawls and PSA's aren't working.

How has the response been from the viewers with the switch from VHF to UHF (for those that just converted from the analog broadcast)?

If you can confirm the current ERP, I will update the spreadsheet accordingly (see signature for the link to it). Also, is WAKA continuing DTV ops on 55 until 1/19/09 or should I correct that date?

Thanks!

I think that the FCC has erred on this approach. Why run this message on the digital side as well? It only waters down the message. Most people are probably numb to the crawls by now and other analog shut-downs today, such as WGGB in Springfield, MA suggest the crawls and PSA's aren't working.

How has the response been from the viewers with the switch from VHF to UHF (for those that just converted from the analog broadcast)?

If you can confirm the current ERP, I will update the spreadsheet accordingly (see signature for the link to it). Also, is WAKA continuing DTV ops on 55 until 1/19/09 or should I correct that date?

Thanks!
We completely agree, I couldn't believe it when I read that in the FCC order.

The crawls and PSA's help, but a lot of people do tend to ignore them. For example, early this year, we started working with the cable systems to get them switched to our digital signal before October 1. Shortly after October 1, we started running an extremely annoying crawl on our analog channel only. We referred to it as "The Crawl of Death", and it ran right over the faces of the people on TV, telling people that they are watching the analog channel, and it's going away on Dec. 1. We started out running once per hour, then kept increasing it until the last week it's been running every 10 minutes. We got quite a few calls about that, of course, most of them were asking if we could move it to the top or bottom of the screen. Sunday night, we just put a roll up telling people the analog is dead and giving the phone number for our helpline. Between the time we put the roll up at 6:45 and the time we left at 10:00, we got close to 300 phone calls, and the phones were still ringing when we left. We haven't totaled the calls for today yet, but I'm sure we've had at least a few hundred more.

We haven't had a lot of problems with the switch from VHF to UHF, the majority of our OTA viewers already have UHF/VHF antennas. There are a few areas in our coverage area where VHF only antennas are popular, but not a lot. It will probably be worse for the stations that are moving their DT service from UHF to VHF, since a lot of the "HDTV" antennas that people are selling are UHF only.

Our current ERP on 55 is 1000kw, we are going to have to reduce power in late December, and again in early February, as we re-tune our current transmitters to Ch 42. We will continue to operate Ch 55 until February 17th, 2009, when we bring channel 42 up to near full power, then probably a week or two later, we will re-tune the last transmitter and should be up to 1000kw on 42.

Russ

So WAKA is moving from 55 to 42?

Does it make sense for us to run a digital banner that only a digital receiver could receive to tell people they don't need to do anything to receive a digital signal? No. Unfortunately, the FCC, in their infinite wisdom, REQUIRES all TV stations to run these...<snip>

Russ
Thanks for the reply, Russ. It figures that the black helicopters musta been involved...leave it to the government.

Even with all of the notices on the air and elsewhere, I can still envision the ambulance chasers and "peoples" lawyers lining up with their entitlement and rights transgressed plaintiffs with their lawsuits after the digital switch...the FCC has even tried to cover their butts via millions of dollars stuck into the CECB program. Lawsuits...the American way. :(

Lawsuits...the American way. :(

No kidding. :rolleyes:

Thanks for the reply, Russ. It figures that the black helicopters musta been involved...leave it to the government.

Even with all of the notices on the air and elsewhere, I can still envision the ambulance chasers and "peoples" lawyers lining up with their entitlement and rights transgressed plaintiffs with their lawsuits after the digital switch...the FCC has even tried to cover their butts via millions of dollars stuck into the CECB program. Lawsuits...the American way. :(

I predicted over a year ago this would be the next Katrina. Since the shutdown, I feel like we moved the station to New Orleans. I expected what we're getting, but it is just sad to talk to the callers. Question: "What brand of converter box do you have?" Answer: (pause) (pause) "C-O-N-V-E-R-T- (pause) E-R (pause) what does that spell?" Once we fix their problems (and we've been able to resolve just about all of them) you frequently hear a series of screams like you would on The Price Is Right. Almost lost an ear drum yesterday. Oh, and we're up to about 600 calls since the shutdown.

Once we fix their problems (and we've been able to resolve just about all of them) you frequently hear a series of screams like you would on The Price Is Right. Almost lost an ear drum yesterday. Oh, and we're up to about 600 calls since the shutdown.

Thank you for the additional information. I will include it on the next update to the spreadsheet.

Early analog shutdowns are the ultimate test and I want to thank stations which are turning off analog early. I know that most have reasons other than to help educate the public, but these early shutdowns are probably doing more to raise general awareness than all the crawls and PSA's.

Though the broadcasters turning off analog early are the "pioneers with arrows in their backs," it should make the transition for other local broadcasters easier.

Locally, there are no stations serving the LA basin which have planned to end analog early. There is a soft analog shut-off test tonight, but I don't know how many will be watching at 5:28-5:30pm and I did not see any stations mentioning it on the morning news casts.

I agree about the UHF to VHF conversions. We have 4 stations which will be making that change in the LA area. I can tell if a house has DTV as they have a UHF only antenna on the roof. Are they prepared for the moves back to VHF? :eek:

We have 4 stations which will be making that change in the LA area. I can tell if a house has DTV as they have a UHF only antenna on the roof. Are they prepared for the moves back to VHF? :eek:

I doubt they have a clue.


Aren't all the Montgomery stations in the UHF band? ....and will they stay there?

I doubt they have a clue.


Aren't all the Montgomery stations in the UHF band? ....and will they stay there?

All Montgomery stations are currently UHF, but WSFA plans to move their digital signal back to Channel 12.

Russ

So WAKA is moving from 55 to 42?

Yes. Channel 55 is "out of core", and will no longer exist as a broadcast TV channel after February 17th, 2009. It's a long story, but our out-of-core assignment has a lot to do with why we had to shut our analog signal off early. For a short period of time, we will be operating on both 55 and 42 (at low power to avoid interference with WKRG and WIAT), then overnight on Feb 17th, we will shut down 55 and bring the power up on 42.

Russ

COOL BRING UP THE POWER. Please have the power up for this weekends football game! Roll Tide. We may not win but aT least we got there. This has been a great year,and CBS and tv 8 has the best HD!

I knew it! WSFA's HD studio cameras are the JVC HD250's--HDV camcorders (with studio config options) with native 720p imagers. No wonder they keep them covered up. :D Don't get me wrong, they are one of, if not THE best HDV camcorders out there. Just when you see them shooting sports with a "handycam-type" camcorder, it makes you wonder.



http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/105/860925

I knew it! WSFA's HD studio cameras are the JVC HD250's--HDV camcorders (with studio config options) with native 720p imagers. No wonder they keep them covered up. :D Don't get me wrong, they are one of, if not THE best HDV camcorders out there. Just when you see them shooting sports with a "handycam-type" camcorder, it makes you wonder.

http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/105/860925

...well, at least they're better than $99 Jazz HD cameras.:D

COOL BRING UP THE POWER. Please have the power up for this weekends football game! Roll Tide. We may not win but aT least we got there. This has been a great year,and CBS and tv 8 has the best HD!

I gotta admit that WAKA's HD is good, especially when the Tide is playing.;) When they get their audio problems squared away (and can drop that hokey banner) they'll definitely be one of the better one's that I get down here in no-man's land.

Maybe something like "DTV021709" would work in the required banner....very brief and to the point...and it seems that folks already have WAKA's phone number to call if they have any questions.:p

I gotta admit that WAKA's HD is good, especially when the Tide is playing.;) When they get their audio problems squared away (and can drop that hokey banner) they'll definitely be one of the better one's that I get down here in no-man's land.

Maybe something like "DTV021709" would work in the required banner....very brief and to the point...and it seems that folks already have WAKA's phone number to call if they have any questions.:p

Unfortunately, we're stuck with the required crawl until March of next year, and we can't make it that brief, since the FCC requires it to last at least 1 minute...I'm going to try to trim it down, if I can ever get off the phone long enough :)

Russ

Unfortunately, we're stuck with the required crawl until March of next year, and we can't make it that brief, since the FCC requires it to last at least 1 minute...I'm going to try to trim it down, if I can ever get off the phone long enough :)

Russ

Well, this Saturday can we have the crawl during the news or something and not the Florida/Bama game? That way folks that are really interested in what's happening in their world will be tuned in to the news rather than a stupid ol' ballgame. Makes sense to me! ;)

btw,...is that your phone ringing? :rolleyes:

I do have a question about getting WCOV though.
When I first got my HD tv about 2 years ago, I got a big philips VHF/UHF antenna. I've never had any problems with 8 or 12 (and I loved the old video music channel on 12 till it went bye)
I then managed to recycle an old antenna mast from a friend of my dads and got the antenna up higher and a lot more stable than the old pipe (yea it was a pipe) it was on before.
http://www.brittcrowell.com/2008/2008-03-31_NewAntennaTower/HPIM2150.JPG
http://www.brittcrowell.com/2008/2008-03-31_NewAntennaTower/HPIM2153.JPG
The rotator doesn't work, it was just easier to mount that way.
Now I get 8,12,32 DT no problem unless the wind is just crazy. 26 and 45 too
I've been thinking about getting one of the DB8 antennas and a preamp to see if it would help me get 20.
I live north of Wetumpka and even worse kinda on the backside of a small ridge.
I don't have access to cable, so thats not an option really.
I just wonder if anyone else out around the Santuck area can get 20 on digital?
Would the DB8 antenna help?
Would a preamp help?
Should I add another section to my mast? ( and then have to run guy wires too)
Also I'm going to have to split my antenna signal to send a signal to my other two TVs in the house that are slowly becoming obsolete.

Thanks
Britt
PS Don't forget that after the first of the year get together

All Montgomery stations are currently UHF, but WSFA plans to move their digital signal back to Channel 12.

Russ

So that's not just Channel 12 psip, but true frequency reassignment that puts it at the top end of VHF. Any idea when the reassignment will occur?

Wonder how that'll affect us Channelmaster 4228 users. This mainly UHF antenna is suppose to work somewhat at VHF 12. Guess we'll have to wait till the transition to find out and have out checkbooks and ladders at the ready. :(

I do have a question about getting WCOV though.
When I first got my HD tv about 2 years ago, I got a big philips VHF/UHF antenna. I've never had any problems with 8 or 12 (and I loved the old video music channel on 12 till it went bye)
I then managed to recycle an old antenna mast from a friend of my dads and got the antenna up higher and a lot more stable than the old pipe (yea it was a pipe) it was on before.
http://www.brittcrowell.com/2008/2008-03-31_NewAntennaTower/HPIM2150.JPG
http://www.brittcrowell.com/2008/2008-03-31_NewAntennaTower/HPIM2153.JPG
The rotator doesn't work, it was just easier to mount that way.
Now I get 8,12,32 DT no problem unless the wind is just crazy. 26 and 45 too
I've been thinking about getting one of the DB8 antennas and a preamp to see if it would help me get 20.
I live north of Wetumpka and even worse kinda on the backside of a small ridge.
I don't have access to cable, so thats not an option really.
I just wonder if anyone else out around the Santuck area can get 20 on digital?
Would the DB8 antenna help?
Would a preamp help?
Should I add another section to my mast? ( and then have to run guy wires too)
Also I'm going to have to split my antenna signal to send a signal to my other two TVs in the house that are slowly becoming obsolete.

Thanks
Britt
PS Don't forget that after the first of the year get together

If your interested I'll sell you a rotator Dirt cheap.
http://www.channelmasterintl.com/images/products/antennas/rotator/9521_Antenna_Rotator_lg.jpg

So that's not just Channel 12 psip, but true frequency reassignment that puts it at the top end of VHF. Any idea when the reassignment will occur?

02/17/09.

- Trip

So that's not just Channel 12 psip, but true frequency reassignment that puts it at the top end of VHF. . :(

The VCT (virtual channel table) part of PSIP tells the reciever what to call a particular channel. As the receiver scans and finds RF channel 55, it reads the VCT and knows to call it WAKA-DT 8.1. We could easily make it display WSFA-FM 3.1. Very soon you will have two 8.1's show up with a scan, one from 55 and one from 42. You won't easily know which actual RF channel you are watching dependent upon your receiver.Viewers will have to rescan once we have channel 42 on to add it, then again once 55 is off to remove it. Should make for more funtime via phone for Mark and Russ :eek:

So that's not just Channel 12 psip, but true frequency reassignment that puts it at the top end of VHF. Any idea when the reassignment will occur?

Wonder how that'll affect us Channelmaster 4228 users. This mainly UHF antenna is suppose to work somewhat at VHF 12. Guess we'll have to wait till the transition to find out and have out checkbooks and ladders at the ready. :(

Yelp, it'll be really interesting to see how it turns out. I'm using a 4228 also up only about 18' so I might have to get some more height on it...but it the 4228 is stated as handling even lower channels than #12. Mine is pulling in WTVY out of Dothan very well but it's digital #36. I'm hoping the height of WSFA's tower and it's location in Ramer will help us folks that are down south in no-man's land.

My 4228 is also pulling in Channel 2, WDIQ, a pbs station about 12 miles from me. WDIQ is on digital #11. I pretty much have to have the 4228 broadside (either front or back) to WDIQ to get solid reception without break-ups but it brings it in good then...and they're only running very minimal power...last time I looked only 1.3kw. I think WSFA will be ok with most 4228 users. The 4228 is a pretty dog-gone good antenna.

I do have a question about getting WCOV though.
When I first got my HD tv about 2 years ago, I got a big philips VHF/UHF antenna. I've never had any problems with 8 or 12 (and I loved the old video music channel on 12 till it went bye)
I then managed to recycle an old antenna mast from a friend of my dads and got the antenna up higher and a lot more stable than the old pipe (yea it was a pipe) it was on before.
http://www.brittcrowell.com/2008/2008-03-31_NewAntennaTower/HPIM2150.JPG
http://www.brittcrowell.com/2008/2008-03-31_NewAntennaTower/HPIM2153.JPG
The rotator doesn't work, it was just easier to mount that way.
Now I get 8,12,32 DT no problem unless the wind is just crazy. 26 and 45 too
I've been thinking about getting one of the DB8 antennas and a preamp to see if it would help me get 20.
I live north of Wetumpka and even worse kinda on the backside of a small ridge.
I don't have access to cable, so thats not an option really.
I just wonder if anyone else out around the Santuck area can get 20 on digital?
Would the DB8 antenna help?
Would a preamp help?
Should I add another section to my mast? ( and then have to run guy wires too)
Also I'm going to have to split my antenna signal to send a signal to my other two TVs in the house that are slowly becoming obsolete.

Thanks
Britt
PS Don't forget that after the first of the year get together

Britt,

That's really a difficult question to answer. Unfortunately, you could raise the antenna, get a better antenna AND a pre-amp, and still not get the signal. Just to put things in perspective, consider the following (all power levels and heights are approximate and gathered from FCC filings):

WAKA 8 is broadcasting from Lowndes County at 1000kw from 1578 ft
WSFA 12 from Grady at 600kw from 1738 ft
WAIQ 26 from downtown Montgomery at 600 kw from 577 ft
WNFC 32 from Harrison Rd in Montgomery (near the I85 Ann St Exit) at either 5.9 or 10.9 kw from 807 ft
WCOV 20 from Adrian Lane in Montgomery at 1.1kw from 511 ft

So, with the least height, and the least power, WCOV is going to be the most difficult station for people outside of Montgomery (and some inside Montgomery) to pick up. It may be possible to get them at your location, but it probably won't be easy. In general, you want as much height as you can get, and the weaker the signal, the more critical your antenna positioning will have to be, so you might consider an antenna rotor. A pre-amp may or may not help, but you definitely should consider one if you are going to have to split your antenna lead for multiple sets.

You may already know about the site, but tvfool.com has a TV Signal Locater that will try to predict coverage at your location and give you an idea of the direction your antenna needs to be pointing...

Russ

I've been working the phone bank in the evenings, so I haven't had a chance to listen to our DT signal in the evenings, are the dropouts still there? Better, worse? I replaced our HD encoder on Monday, I'm hoping that helped...

Russ

I've been working the phone bank in the evenings, so I haven't had a chance to listen to our DT signal in the evenings, are the dropouts still there? Better, worse? I replaced our HD encoder on Monday, I'm hoping that helped...

Russ

I was still getting dropouts last night, but did seem to possibly be fewer of them. Keep up the good work.

Ed

I do have a question about getting WCOV though.
When I first got my HD tv about 2 years ago, I got a big philips VHF/UHF antenna. I've never had any problems with 8 or 12 (and I loved the old video music channel on 12 till it went bye)<snip...>

One thing to remember is that in three months WCOV should be cranking up the power from WSFA's tower close to Ramer. Their primary transmitting direction will be towards Montgomery (I think), even though the transmitting antenna will be further from you I think the increase in power will make it more likely to be received at your location. I've been without FOX HD for the last two years, too, and have been waiting for the turn-off/turn-on. Hopefully suddenly FOX HD will materialize down here in no-man's land. Matter of fact, I've got my satellite contract timed to expire right about that time in case I want to dump the monthly $atellite fee.

As Russ mentioned, www.tvfool.com is a very good site. You can do a "pre" and "post" transition query and it'll give you some good imformation. Study the legends and instructions and you'll have a good idea of what to expect.

Thanks for the info.
I couldn't remember the TVfool.com site. I've been there before and even downloaded the google earth overlays for the transmitters. Thanks to the info provided, I now know why the overlay has WCOV at the same place as WSFA. So I guess I'll just hold off on the new antenna for a while and see what happens after the transition.

Thanks again.
Britt

This weekend, as someone else mentioned, WSFA went off the air. When it came back, I have noticed extreme pixelation on any kind of movement or camera panning. I never noticed it before, and 90% of what I watch is on WSFA. Now, I can barely watch what I normally watch because of this. Is anyone else experiencing this or know what is up? Its only NBC, all my other HD channels look fine. And its not just sports, I'm talking sitcoms like Chuck and Heroes.

This weekend, as someone else mentioned, WSFA went off the air. When it came back, I have noticed extreme pixelation on any kind of movement or camera panning. I never noticed it before, and 90% of what I watch is on WSFA. Now, I can barely watch what I normally watch because of this. Is anyone else experiencing this or know what is up? Its only NBC, all my other HD channels look fine. And its not just sports, I'm talking sitcoms like Chuck and Heroes.

Are you saying that your picture quality was good before, but now the macroblocking is worse, or are you just noticing it now? WSFA does have the lowest-quality/most-compressed signal. Any fast motion, fast cuts, flashes, etc. will look horrible on WSFA.

I've read people saying NBC was one of the worst, but in my experience, it was one of the best. I just bought a new HDTV probably 6 months ago, so I've been really paying attention to picture quality on different channels, and devices (DVD, etc..) and, while I don't watch much sports and can't attest to how sports look on NBC, I know how the shows I watch regularly look, and they definitely look much worse now than before. It was noticeable immediately. Maybe it was there before, but I don't know how I missed what I am seeing now. I thought something was wrong with my tv until i checked some other channels.

Tim,

I've noticed macroblocking during fast motion in the last few days. Previously, it must have been minimal as I didn't notice it.

same here in Millbrook

WSFA has changed their encoding setup recently. I'm not sure when, though. I will say that I've noticed over the past few days that RTN has looked a lot better. I haven't lingered on WX Plus, but in passing, it seems a little better. That may be an indicator that they've decreased 12.1 and increased 12.2 & 12.3. I tell you, HD gets no respect! Take my wife...please! Seriously though, WSFA was using a type of variable bit rate encoding setup before (which didn't work so great), but have switched to a constant bit rate encoding setup, like everyone else (I think).

On the bright side (maybe), RTN has been in financial trouble, and was sold about 6 months ago. Maybe they'll go away!

I've noticed macroblocking during fast motion in the last few days. Previously, it must have been minimal as I didn't notice it.

I do tend to be overly-picky! :D I'm trained to be critical of A/V quality, so it bleeds over sometimes! I'm like a carpenter who notices that the kitchen cabinets are just a little off from square. :D

I wouldn't count on RTN going away, though WeatherPlus goes away on 12/31.

If they reverted from VBR to CBR, then maybe their encoder failed and they're on a backup? That's all I can think of.

Do you have a computer-based receiver or something that you can observe such bitrates?

- Trip

I wouldn't count on RTN going away, though WeatherPlus goes away on 12/31.

If they reverted from VBR to CBR, then maybe their encoder failed and they're on a backup? That's all I can think of.

Do you have a computer-based receiver or something that you can observe such bitrates?

- Trip

No, I don't have a computer receiver. I can ballpark the bit rate by eyeballing, since I know that ATSC uses MPEG-2 MP@ML&HL interframe compression. DVD-video uses similar encoding, and I encode both types of streams at work. I also talk on occasion with folks from a couple of the local stations. WSFA's encoding method switch was deliberate. I don't know what's happened over the past few days, but RTN sure looked better. And 12.1, not so much. I remembered I noticed that after I replied to Bomonganni earlier.

Honestly, I think maybe the ATSC intended a DT signal to carry either 1 HD channel, or 3-4 SD channels, and not a mix so much. $$$ is a powerful drug. :D

Woo! Your eyes must be better than mine to be able to eyeball bitrates! Though I suppose if you work with it all the time, it must be easier. :D

- Trip

"ballpark" ;)

I wouldn't be able to differentiate between constant and variable just from looking at it! :D

- Trip

"ballpark" ;)

And a big one at that. I'm willing to bet If we took a 1999 flexicoder running 1080i at 12mb/s and a 2008 Harmonic MV450 or Tandberg E5780 (WAKA) running the same you'd guess wrong. :)

I wouldn't be able to differentiate between constant and variable just from looking at it! :D

I was told. :D

And a big one at that. I'm willing to bet If we took a 1999 flexicoder running 1080i at 12mb/s and a 2008 Harmonic MV450 or Tandberg E5780 (WAKA) running the same you'd guess wrong. :)

It's easier to figure when you know the upper limit. So I'm a cheater--I can't eyeball it absolutely. Just relatively. And only at lower bit rates. :D It's tough to see much difference above a certain point.

It's tough to see much difference above a certain point.

Gasp! You speak such blasphemy Tim! If you were a true pro you could tell the difference as small as 1/10th mbps regardless of bit rate and format..just like you can hear 1/2 db of level difference, and feel a temperature difference of 1/2 degree.. ;)

Guess we all cheat somewhat, huh? In my case I know that WAKA's HD video is a constant 16 mb/s..:cool:

I was told. :D



It's easier to figure when you know the upper limit. So I'm a cheater--I can't eyeball it absolutely. Just relatively. And only at lower bit rates. :D It's tough to see much difference above a certain point.

I wouldn't be able to differentiate between constant and variable just from looking at it! :D

- Trip

Trip-

You probably would have been able to tell on WSFA if you were watching them before and after the change...their encoder was either poorly configured, or not very good at stat muxing. Looking at a graph of the bitrate for each stream (I do have a PC based ATSC receiver), it looked like the HD was giving up bandwidth for the two SD streams...and you could really see it in the HD. One night, a while back, I was watching the NBC Nightly News in HD, and I thought it looked much better than usual, then I realized that the picture quality was not really better, but it was more consistent. Before, when they cut from a static image to a scene with motion, it would take a while for the detail to appear in the moving scene. I graphed the bitrates, and they were much more consistent than before, with very little variation.

I haven't looked at it recently (either video or statistics) since I've had a lot going on, but I'll try to take a look at the bitrates when I get a chance. If there are more artifacts, they may have gone back to the stat mux config.

Russ

I can't bite my tongue any longer. WSFA News picture quality is the worst excuse for HD I can think of!!

Wow, you guys have gotten really technical on me! LOL You lost me several posts back. So, I'm not the only one that noticed it? If I understand you correctly, NBC was pretty poor previously, and then did something to make the quality better, and perhaps they've gone back to what they were using before? What is RTN? Can you explain this in idiot terms? LOL I guess the bottom line is do you think it will improve? I watched a little last night and it didn't seem to be as bad. But someone mentioned their Olympics coverage, and yes, I did notice the pixelation then, especially on the diving and swimming events, but I didn't really notice it then on their regular programming, so I assumed it had something to do with the Olympics feed only. On my set, to my eyes, NBC colors are brighter, and the picture seems sharper than say, FOX which tends to have a slight graininess to it. Maybe its the particular shows I'm watching and is an intended effect. I don't really watch anything on CBS or ABC, so I can't compare those channels. Why do some HD channels or programming on these channels (like say Science Channel) claim to be HD but then the show will not quite fill up the screen? Sorry for all the questions and long posts, but I'm curious to how this works....I know there's alot of misinformation out there ( I have a friend who tried to tell me 480p was "sort of" HD, and as far as I know that is progressive DVD, which is not the same thing...but then maybe I'm the one who is clueless...LOL.....thanks guys!

What is RTN? Can you explain this in idiot terms? LOL

RTN: Retro Television Network (WSFA-DT 12.3) ;)

I guess the bottom line is do you think it will improve? I watched a little last night and it didn't seem to be as bad. But someone mentioned their Olympics coverage, and yes, I did notice the pixelation then, especially on the diving and swimming events, but I didn't really notice it then on their regular programming, so I assumed it had something to do with the Olympics feed only.Improve? It's as sure as you can bet on the stock market. :) You're right about the Olympics. The feed had gone through a number of conversions and re-compressions, that it couldn't be as good as the regular programming. It wasn't just here in Montgomery. But apparently, something was different with NBC's transmissions. People from cities across the country were complaining about it, while CBC in Canada and BBC had markedly better quality.

On my set, to my eyes, NBC colors are brighter, and the picture seems sharper than say, FOX which tends to have a slight graininess to it. Maybe its the particular shows I'm watching and is an intended effect.The graininess is probably because the shows were shot on film, and the type of film stock they used.

Why do some HD channels or programming on these channels (like say Science Channel) claim to be HD but then the show will not quite fill up the screen? The actual signal is in HD, but the video is SD, and was "up-converted" (scaled) to fit inside that HD frame size. It's like when you place a picture in a Word document, and you need to stretch it larger to fill up the whole page. The picture may be only a 4"x6" and you want it to fill an 8.5"x11" page, so it's blown up past it's "native" size.

Sorry for all the questions and long posts, but I'm curious to how this works....I know there's alot of misinformation out there ( I have a friend who tried to tell me 480p was "sort of" HD, and as far as I know that is progressive DVD, which is not the same thing...but then maybe I'm the one who is clueless...LOL.....thanks guys!Yep, you're right. Video is considers HD if it has at least 700 lines. 480p is part of the ATSC DTV standard, and is sometimes referred to as Enhanced Definition. FOX used it before going HD. DVDs also.

OK, I took a few minutes this morning to look at the bitrates on WSFA... There's no variation in them, I don't remember what they were before, but now they appear to be fixed at (approximately):

WSFA-DT: ~11.7 mbps
WxPlus: ~2.4 mbps
RTN: ~3.6 mbps

For comparison:

WAKA-DT: 16 mpbs
WAKA-WX: 1.8 mbps

WCOV-DT: ~13 mbps
WCOV-WX: ~2.25 mpbs

I can't pick up WNCF right now, but I think they are 15-16 mbps.

Russ

By the way, the numbers Russ lists are for the VIDEO only, that does not include audio(s) and PSIP info. You also have to leave a bit of null stuffing to accommodate PSIP bursts for the EPG to prevent oversubscription of the multiplex. Hence why you can't run a full 19.4 mb/s.

One thing to remember is that in three months WCOV should be cranking up the power from WSFA's tower close to Ramer. Their primary transmitting direction will be towards Montgomery (I think), even though the transmitting antenna will be further from you I think the increase in power will make it more likely to be received at your location. I've been without FOX HD for the last two years, too, and have been waiting for the turn-off/turn-on. Hopefully suddenly FOX HD will materialize down here in no-man's land. Matter of fact, I've got my satellite contract timed to expire right about that time in case I want to dump the monthly $atellite fee.

As Russ mentioned, www.tvfool.com is a very good site. You can do a "pre" and "post" transition query and it'll give you some good imformation. Study the legends and instructions and you'll have a good idea of what to expect.


Not so fast! As of 10/22 (their latest filing) WCOV continues to ask for digital channel 20 instead of the current channel 16. They have also asked to reduce power to 460KW down from 1MW. So far, the commission has not acted on that, although they denied them a previous, similar request. That leaves them approved on 16 at 1MW...something they seem to be fighting (although they originally asked for it). I'm sure money is involved as they can use their currrent ch 20 antenna and line if the commish approves.
But this has been in play for about a year and there is no resolution (although the commish opened for comments on 11/20 and most hold it open for at least 45 days after it is published in the federal register--that date yet to be determined). And it's mighty close to Feb 17. So don't let that satellite go yet. A nail biter for sure.

I can't bite my tongue any longer. WSFA News picture quality is the worst excuse for HD I can think of!!

I see you've been able to watch news from a real market and compare it to here.

The night they started it, I said: "That's it?"

We may be second with local HD news, but when we do it it won't look like
theirs.

I see you've been able to watch news from a real market and compare it to here.

The night they started it, I said: "That's it?"

We may be second with local HD news, but when we do it it won't look like
theirs.

Hey! It IS widescreen. And a little sharper. :D That's what happens when you use small cameras for studio and field, ugly sets, and blurry "HD" graphics! Not to mention the Raycom Sports-looking graphics package. That's a bit much for news.

I still don't see how CBS allows Guiding Light to use similar cameras. You can clear tell they are Canon (XH-G1's & XL-H1) from the horrible treatment of reds, and the lack of latitude shows on outdoor scenes.

Speaking of WCOV, I haven't talked with WCOV's station manager in a while, so I e-mailed him a few days ago, but haven't heard back yet. One thing I asked about was the "forgetting to flip the switch" thing, just for shoncb (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15181248#post15181248). ;)

OK, I took a few minutes this morning to look at the bitrates on WSFA... There's no variation in them, I don't remember what they were before, but now they appear to be fixed at (approximately):

WSFA-DT: ~11.7 mbps
WxPlus: ~2.4 mbps
RTN: ~3.6 mbps

For comparison:

WAKA-DT: 16 mpbs
WAKA-WX: 1.8 mbps

WCOV-DT: ~13 mbps
WCOV-WX: ~2.25 mpbs

I can't pick up WNCF right now, but I think they are 15-16 mbps.

Russ

Are you using TSReader to get those numbers, or specialized equipment/software?

- Trip

Are you using TSReader to get those numbers, or specialized equipment/software?

- Trip

I'm using TSReader, it's a great little package.

Russ

Are you using TSReader to get those numbers, or specialized equipment/software?- Trip

And in the case of WAKA, that's what we have the encoders set to. :)

Any luck on audio drops waka

WSFA-DT: ~11.7 mbps
WxPlus: ~2.4 mbps
RTN: ~3.6 mbps

Well that explains it. That's almost worse than DISH. At least they use Mpeg4.

Speaking of WCOV, I haven't talked with WCOV's station manager in a while, so I e-mailed him a few days ago, but haven't heard back yet. One thing I asked about was the "forgetting to flip the switch" thing, just for shoncb (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15181248#post15181248). ;)

You're the best, Mr. Ward!:)

I'm using TSReader, it's a great little package.

Russ

You have a PM. =)

- Trip

You're the best, Mr. Ward!:)

Hey, it was bothering me too! :)


You guys from WAKA are the best! You don't have to post on here, but you do, and I know everyone appreciates that. Maybe some of the other stations will eventually come here.

Any luck on audio drops waka

Not yet, I'm planning to make more changes today.

Russ

You guys from WAKA are the best! You don't have to post on here, but you do, and I know everyone appreciates that. Maybe some of the other stations will eventually come here.

Oh, We all don't mind, as long as people act like civilized adults.
Besides, we need, value, and appreciate your feedback.
Mark and Russ have their hands full right now, know that Russ and I speak daily on the audio issues, and the problem will be solved with you guys' help.

I can't bite my tongue any longer. WSFA News picture quality is the worst excuse for HD I can think of!!
You hit the nail on the head there!, sheesh what crap!

Not yet, I'm planning to make more changes today.

Russ

I didn't notice any audio dropouts tonight. You obviously set it to the stereo feed full-time, with no 5.1.

Same here in Millbrook. No drops ,but not Dolby Digital 5.1

This may not be in right place to post, but I need advice on changing my Mitsubishi dlp wd-65831 lamp. I have extended warranty but when I called them they said will send a replcement bulb. Just the bulb only, not the housing. I am a little nervous about it. Any hep or advice welcome.

Charles,

Most of these bulbs have some sort of base that makes it easy to swap out bulbs. If you want, P.M. me and I'll come over with the extra large hammer and give it a try. :)

You probably don't have the bulb yet, but I'll be heading over to Moutain Ridge this afternoon to watch the game.

Charles,

Most of these bulbs have some sort of base that makes it easy to swap out bulbs. If you want, P.M. me and I'll come over with the extra large hammer and give it a try. :)

You probably don't have the bulb yet, but I'll be heading over to Moutain Ridge this afternoon to watch the game.
Man, as many posts as you have you oughta know you're gonna tear something up with that hammer!!! :eek: Shame on you!!!! You know very well that you have to use a wooden mallet!!!!

Big hammer is better on DLPs. Wooden mallets raises the black levels on DLPs. Definately a no no. :)

Everybody is a comic! The complete housing is easy to change. Almost like plug and play. With bulb only not sure about.
Mountain Ridge Jim? Roll Tide!

anybody having trouble with WAKA reception. I usually get about 98 signal strength and it is now cutting out with a strength of about 73. about two hours before the game. Is this just me or everybody. Channelmaster 4228, 7777 and a rotator. My signal strength will go up to 93 and then down to 73 in a matter of seconds.
steve

I didn't notice any audio dropouts tonight. You obviously set it to the stereo feed full-time, with no 5.1.

Same here in Millbrook. No drops ,but not Dolby Digital 5.1

Well, I had already eliminated everything ahead of the 5.1 equipement, now I've eliminated everything after...so I know where to concentrate now.

I've got some new equipment coming in next week, and a few more things to try in the meantime, so next week we'll probably be stereo some nights, and 5.1 the others.

Russ

no trouble in Millbrook

Channel 46 CBS Atlanta has the same audio hickups the problem may be on the Network end.

Channel 46 CBS Atlanta has the same audio hickups the problem may be on the Network end.

Interesting...one of our engineers in Charlotte thought he'd heard a similar issue on the CBS station there, but I've monitored CBS 42 in Birmingham, and I don't hear the problem there. The audio on 42 does sound different, though, so maybe they are upmixing to 5.1, or using different equipment.

I'm working on a plan to isolate the problem here, when I'm not answering the phone or trying to figure out what the latest problem is...so far, since 11:00, we've had two CBS issues and one equipment problem that has killed either our cable feed or the DT feed.

Russ

no trouble in Millbrook

I'm just curious, what kind of antenna setup are you using in Millbrook? We've gotten a lot of calls from people in that area that are having trouble with our digital signal...

Thanks,
Russ

Interesting...one of our engineers in Charlotte thought he'd heard a similar issue on the CBS station there, but I've monitored CBS 42 in Birmingham, and I don't hear the problem there. The audio on 42 does sound different, though, so maybe they are upmixing to 5.1, or using different equipment.

I'm working on a plan to isolate the problem here, when I'm not answering the phone or trying to figure out what the latest problem is...so far, since 11:00, we've had two CBS issues and one equipment problem that has killed either our cable feed or the DT feed.

Russ

It seems that it may be a CBS problem. Apparently, other CBS stations are experiencing similar problems.

This is from an engineer in the Beaumont, TX HDTV forum:

I haven't heard anyone mention the popping audio lately. Has it quit, or has everyone just given up on it being fixed? The one person at this station who watches us doesn't remember hearing it lately. The other CBS stations with this problem have quit sending complaints to CBS about it and I am wondering if they have given up, or has it been fixed?

Can someone record this audio popping and send me an audio file? I have never heard this popping myself. Maybe if I could hear it, that would help.

Two of the "other" CBS stations have reported that the audio dropout has started again. But they don't mention a pop.

Richard

I am on Brighthouse.I have outside antenna also and drop outs were on both. It's not a poping but just sound drops out. Picture for the game perfect.

I was in Millbrook this afternoon and had occassional audio dropouts during the game with an occassional pixelization of the picture. Homeowner was on Brighthouse cable so its hard to say if it was their cable leg or the actual OTA signal.

my trouble turned out to be that my amp was blocking the antenna from turning after fixing I had no trouble through the whole game, but the inlaws did call and say that they had no picture just audio on the sd channel on dish and I checked and had the same but no problem OTA
steve

I had a few friends that said their SD cable channel was out also. I believe it was Charter.

Could someone at WCOV "flip the switch"? Fox News Sunday just isn't the same in standard definition.

Watching channel 8 news and the lip sync is horrible.

Bear with us, Russ is working diligently on it. Lip Sync can be a royal pain to set, especially if you are like me and can tell it is off but not how far or which way. We ordered some equipment today that will aid in setting lip sync, however it will be a few weeks before it arrives.:o

Bear with us, Russ is working diligently on it. Lip Sync can be a royal pain to set, especially if you are like me and can tell it is off but not how far or which way. We ordered some equipment today that will aid in setting lip sync, however it will be a few weeks before it arrives.:o

Yes it is. When I setup my bluray It was rough and I was using music watching the drummer and still had a hard time. :D

Just basically wanting to know if it was going to be there for a while and I would need to adjust my Denon rec or just wait it out.
thanks
steve

The lip sync issue should be fixed now, just another one of those strange things that crop up when we make changes...

I've made another change to the audio routing, so let me know if there are any other audio issues tonight.

Thanks,
Russ

Yes it is. When I setup my bluray It was rough and I was using music watching the drummer and still had a hard time. :D

However setting up toy audio is nothing like broadcast audio where,in WAKA's case, there are 5 or so places the sync could be off. And our audio isn't carried on an HDMI cable with the Video :)

You TIVO S3 owners might be interested in this.

TIVo and Netflix have worked out an instant download service for many titles. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=412534
Just glancing at the Netflix page on instant download choices of 12,000 movies, it doesn't appear to be newly released blockbuster movies that are available on their regular mail service.

EDIT
Just discovered that the audio is 2 channel, not DD 5.1.

TIVo and Netflix have worked out an instant download service for many titles. .


Now if it will work with my PopCorn Hour,that would be sweet! :)

In regard to audio changes last night:
Still no Dolby 5.1.but no audio problems v-8 via Brighthouse.

In regard to audio changes last night:
Still no Dolby 5.1.but no audio problems v-8 via Brighthouse.

Thanks. I installed new equipment today, tonight we should be back to 5.1, hopefully without audio dropouts.

Russ

Thanks for the information,Good Job

WAKA HD had some problems today during The Young and the Restless. I was remembering the days of vertical / horizontal hold controls on the old TV sets when the picture began to roll upward, but then it switched to standard def.

Good audio tonight waka. Dolby 5.1. Dark Knight great on blue ray. Finally a good sequel

Good audio tonight waka. Dolby 5.1. Dark Knight great on blue ray. Finally a good sequel

Bought it yesterday. Haven't had a chance to watch it yet.

Does anyone have a submersive subwoofer by Mark Seaton?

I'm interested in buying one and would like to listen to it first.

Does anyone have a submersive subwoofer by Mark Seaton?

A waterproof subwoofer? :D

Doubt it. :)

Suppose to be a pretty good design. Opposing dual 15" drivers in a sealed box design.
Pretty flat into the teens.

Not trying to get a flame war going, but is there any noticeable picture quality difference between Knology and Charter?

Not trying to get a flame war going, but is there any noticeable picture quality difference between Knology and Charter?

Don't know about the HD, but with the SD programming, Charter fibers it in from Leeds, Ala. (except locals, TWC, TVGuide), while Knology originates locally--they pull in the programming with satellite antennae. Charter's SD stuff is highly compressed, and the effects are visible on analog cable. My personal leanings are toward Knology.

Knology SD does look pretty good. I was watching some last night when I was testing a new TV that my mother bought my dad for Christmas. Even without the HD DVR, the channels looked nice on a 42" 1080p Sharp LCD.

This is a Bright House question. On my TiVo Series 3, I recently received a message alerting me to a channel change. It said Mojo was gone and that Hallmark HD was replacing it on Channel 783. There is nothing on that channel now. Anyone know what's going on? I just checked the Bright House site and confirmed this channel change.

It also says Hallmark coming soon on there web page.They have the channel listed 783 but I get not authorized. Checked it out on the web, nothing to get
excited about!

I called Brighthouse and they said they were working on it and would be on shortly. Just checked it is on now. First show not even wide screen. http://www.hallmarkmoviechannel.com/

WAKA HD... Where is it? I'm watching Y&R in SD on Bright House at the moment. Yesterday, Y&R was shown in SD for almost half the show. To clarify, they are showing the SD feed on the HD channel. They even just ran the "end of analog" crawl across the entire 16:9 screen even though the show is in 4:3.

I tried to watch the Today show at my office this morning in HD. Either Bright House or WSFA have some sort of problem. The show kept disintegrating. I think they call it "artifacting". Bright House has been out here to measure the signal strength in the past and says there is no problem.

WAKA HD... Where is it? I'm watching Y&R in SD on Bright House at the moment. Yesterday, Y&R was shown in SD for almost half the show. To clarify, they are showing the SD feed on the HD channel. They even just ran the "end of analog" crawl across the entire 16:9 screen even though the show is in 4:3.

I tried to watch the Today show at my office this morning in HD. Either Bright House or WSFA have some sort of problem. The show kept disintegrating. I think they call it "artifacting". Bright House has been out here to measure the signal strength in the past and says there is no problem.

Yesterday, CBS had audio issues on the central time zone Y&R feed, so we had to switch to the upconverted feed, we switched back to HD once they were resolved.

We are in the process of replacing the satellite dish and associated cabling that we use to receive the HD feed of Y&R, and unfortunately we had a cable fail this morning. We are working on it now, hopefully it will be resolved (or at least patched) by tomorrow.

Russ

watched criminal minds on cbs, audio not dolby 5.1

watched criminal minds on cbs, audio not dolby 5.1

Thanks for the info. It should have been 5.1, I'll have to check and see what's going on.

Russ

Thanks. Anyone have information on our Public Television,and why it is not in HD?

Yesterday, CBS had audio issues on the central time zone Y&R feed, so we had to switch to the upconverted feed, we switched back to HD once they were resolved.

We are in the process of replacing the satellite dish and associated cabling that we use to receive the HD feed of Y&R, and unfortunately we had a cable fail this morning. We are working on it now, hopefully it will be resolved (or at least patched) by tomorrow.

Russ

Thank you for your response to my post.

I was wrong Audio was in DD 5.1. Sorry

Thanks. Anyone have information on our Public Television,and why it is not in HD?

I'd started wondering about that myself. I had to work in "L.A." this week, and noticed that WEIQ-DT (Mobile) and WSRE-DT (Pensacola) were both in HD during primetime on Wednesday.

There has been some great shows on and are advertsed as in HD but not in this area

Just got a press release stating that WCOV will no longer be carried on Charter.
It seems that they could not come to terms on a contract.

I've seen this happen in other markets. It usually becomes a nasty battle between the tv station and cable company... both trying to get their versions of the story out.

I did not see a date for it to disappear. Perhaps they can still work something out.

Question.... I am in East Mont. (Vaughn near Ryan Road)
Will I be able to pick up WCOV in HD over the air with a small indoor HD antenna on top of the TV? Last time I tried the antenna more than 6 mo ago, seems that I had issues.

Will I be able to pick up WCOV in HD over the air with a small indoor HD antenna on top of the TV?

No

There has been some great shows on and are advertsed as in HD but not in this area

If you can figure it out, go for it. Their 6pm M-F national news is sent in HD, but about once or twice a week it always displays in SD. Now, to APT's "credit", they do not have the HD bug up in these cases, but this once or twice a week miss has always happened. On Florida public television, the show is always in HD.

Just got a press release stating that WCOV will no longer be carried on Charter.
It seems that they could not come to terms on a contract.

I've seen this happen in other markets. It usually becomes a nasty battle between the tv station and cable company... both trying to get their versions of the story out.

I did not see a date for it to disappear. Perhaps they can still work something out.

Question.... I am in East Mont. (Vaughn near Ryan Road)
Will I be able to pick up WCOV in HD over the air with a small indoor HD antenna on top of the TV? Last time I tried the antenna more than 6 mo ago, seems that I had issues.

January 1 is the date.

If any of you Brighthouse subscribers notice audio level differences on WAKA, please post here. For the past few weeks we have been getting complaints, and they are 100% Brighthouse customers. They seem to be on SD channel 8 (not 216 digital) but maybe not. I know this is a sacrifice to ask you to watch SD, but if you notice on either channel, we would appreciate the advisement as we have no direct way to monitor the signal on BH.

So WCOV-DT won't be carried over Charter and Brighthouse. Whose left? Knology?

So WCOV-DT won't be carried over Charter and Brighthouse. Whose left? Knology?

I'm not exactly holding my breath for OTA either. :rolleyes:

Our discussion a few months ago speculated that Fox might be carried by one of the other locals. Heard anything in the rumor mill about that?

Just got a press release stating that WCOV will no longer be carried on Charter.
It seems that they could not come to terms on a contract.

I've seen this happen in other markets. It usually becomes a nasty battle between the tv station and cable company... both trying to get their versions of the story out.

I did not see a date for it to disappear. Perhaps they can still work something out.

Question.... I am in East Mont. (Vaughn near Ryan Road)
Will I be able to pick up WCOV in HD over the air with a small indoor HD antenna on top of the TV? Last time I tried the antenna more than 6 mo ago, seems that I had issues.

Call up Charter and complain. It might not get you anything, but they might at least give you some sort of compensation for it.

I'd jump ship--let their thinner wallet do the talking. :D

Speaking of Brighthouse, The new hd channel Hallmark is not why I bought my HD setup.

I'd jump ship--let their thinner wallet do the talking. :D


Hail to free OTA.

Hail to TIVO.

Hail to the 30 second skip. :D

Link to the WCOV press release???

Speaking of Brighthouse, The new hd channel Hallmark is not why I bought my HD setup.

Whhaaa? You don't like endless re-runs of Walker upconverted and stretched to boot? That's real HD...:rolleyes:

Whhaaa? You don't like endless re-runs of Walker upconverted and stretched to boot? That's real HD...:rolleyes:

I heard Best Buy was trying to get a contract so they could run Halmark movies exclusively on their walls of flat panels...flat-headed customer appeal.

I am an AU fan, but the wife is UA. This WCOV thing really bites if you have charter since FOX is carrying the sugar bowl. Don't you know Knology will be busy in the next 10 days. I dropped charter 2 years ago, but I would be pissed if I still had them.
steve

Thank goodness for my 30 year old outside antenna

Don't know about the HD, but with the SD programming, Charter fibers it in from Leeds, Ala. Charter's SD stuff is highly compressed, and the effects are visible on analog cable. While the analog SD channels are transported via fiber from Leeds, they are not highly compressed. In fact they aren't compressed at all. The analog SD transport platform transports 16 uncompressed analog carriers on a single OC-48 DWDM wavelength. That works out to be approx. 155Mbps of bandwidth per analog channel.

A while back I posted some info on digital SD channel compression. The original post can be found here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6898152&#post6898152

Below is the text from the original posting.

For anyone interested, this is just a little FYI on Charter's Digital service and digital cable in general.

I think it's safe to assume that we have all witnessed MPEG compression artifacts in both satellite and digital cable channels. I think the general consensus is that the artifacting is a result of some sort of bit rate shaping the cable or satellite provider is performing, usually in order to cram too many channels into their limited bandwidth. In some instances that may be the case, but in many instances the artifacting is actually originating with the Cable network. (I'm looking at you MTV Networks.)

For example, anyone who has ever viewed MTV Hits or the now defunct VH1 Mega-Hits on Charter Digital Cable can attest to how poor the picture looked. MPEG artifacting was everywhere. The artifacting bothered me so much that I asked our Senior Headend Engineer why those particular channels looked so poor.

His response to me was “The channels are transmitted that way from MTV Networks”. He went on to say that we were passing those channels straight into our lineup without any additional compression. To prove it to me, he showed me the digital video stream of MTV Hits straight out or our satellite decoder and he was right, it looked like crap.

Just like OTA broadcasters who rate limit or “shape” their multicast SD streams, MTV and other cable Networks are shaping the bit rate of their digital channels before the channels are distributed from their transmission facility. They perform the shaping in order to squeeze more channels into the limited capacity available on communication satellites. According to http://www.lyngsat.com/amc11.html, MTV Networks squeezes the followings digital streams into one of their transponder frequencies on Americom-11:

MTV2 East
MTV Jams
MTV Espanol
VH1 Classic US
VH1 Soul
VH1 County
Noggin
NICK GAS
Nicktoons
Nick Too
Logo East
MTV Hits US

On a different transponder frequency, also on Americom-11, they squeeze the following:

TV Land East
TV Land West
CMT West
CMT East
Spike TV East
Nickelodeon West
Nickelodeon East
Spike TV West
Comedy Central West
Comedy Central East
VH1 West

That’s a lot of channels and that is also a lot of compression before the signal ever reaches Charter, DirecTV or other TV providers. (I’m assuming for the sake of argument that DirecTV acquires the content in the same manner as cable providers.)

Because the shaping is under the cable networks control, they can dedicate more bandwidth to so called popular channels such as MTV2, while decreasing the bandwidth available to the other channels also transmitted on that transponder. This is why some channels look pretty good, some look okay, and others like MTV Hits, look like crap.

“So, what’s your point?” you ask. Well the point is that regardless of how you acquire “cable TV” the PQ on many Cable Networks is substandard before the signal leaves _their_ transmission facility. Therefore, in many cases the MPEG compression artifacting that drives us crazy isn’t necessarily the fault of the cable or satellite TV provider.

I hope the Cable Network don’t continue this practice with their HD channels, but I’m not holding my breath.

Regards.

While the analog SD channels are transported via fiber from Leeds, they are not highly compressed. In fact they aren't compressed at all. The analog SD transport platform transports 16 uncompressed analog carriers on a single OC-48 DWDM wavelength. That works out to be approx. 155Mbps of bandwidth per analog channel.

Don't forget the overhead on that OC48! ;) So, taking overhead into account, each channel may be given around 150 Mb/s, which is about 15-20% compressed (8-bit SD is about 180 Mb/s). But that still wouldn't come close to making it look like it does here in Montgomery, so if the channels indeed have that much bandwidth, they are getting compressed somewhere else before reaching our homes. And it's AFTER satellite downlink, because side-by-side with Knology, it's very obvious that Charter's channels are compressed. And that's viewing on an analog TV with the Basic-Expanded lineup. You could compress them to 1/5 of what you say it is and still have great quality, rather than what is showing up. So something else may be at fault? :)

Link to the WCOV press release???

http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/article/20081223/NEWS/81223022

Whhaaa? You don't like endless re-runs of Walker upconverted and stretched to boot? That's real HD...:rolleyes:

Don't you know stretching is good for increasing flexibility, and great exercise? :D

wcov in the paper http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/article/20081223/NEWS/81223022

Brighthouse WEB PAGE notice does not mention wcov but does say ABC HD AND SD also CW NETWORK MAY CEASE

wsfa news at 6 had the story about charter. Get this wcov,David Woods, said that wcov had reached agreements with all local cable co. including Brighthouse. Could this mean wcov HD on Brighthouse soon? Check out wcov tv fox for breaking news on this story

Merry christmas to all :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Ok, Charter customers. Can someone a little more savvy than me answer this? We have (not including HD of course) WCOV on channel 2 and WBRC on channel 6. They are both Fox. WCOV is Fox 20 in Montgomery and WBRC is Fox 6 in Birmingham.

I've checked both websites and WCOV has a press release about the Charter situation, but WBRC does not. My question is: If this situation doesn't get resolved will we still get channel 6? It seems to me that we will. No, we won't be able to watch in HD for a few days, but it seems like we might be able to watch the feed out of Birmingham instead (in SD of course).

In my opinion this is all moot anyways, since I truly think the powers that be will work this out before Jan. 1st.

***Edit: Nevermind. I was in Selma when I wrote everything above. We don't have channel 6 in Montgomery. Selma does though. Does anyone know if they will still get it if no agreement can be reached?***

Hum,

WAKA not coming through good today, but the CBS channel out of Huntsville is blasting lound and clear all the way down here - go figure!

IM not sure but they may be at reduced power. Ok in Millbrook

Not sure what has made the difference, but for the past couple of months I have been able to get all the locals from one antenna direction. In the past, to get WAKA reliably I had to adjust my antenna and then adjust it back to get all the other locals (rarely could I get them all from the same antenna position). In the past, WAKA was the odd man out with it's Selma tower (between Montgomery and Selma). Even with WAKA at reduced power the reception is still great. WCOV has been problematic at times in the past, even with the anenna in an optimal position but I have had no problems lately.
Hopefully this is not just due to atmospheric condition during this time of year.
(I am between Wetumpka and Millbrook).

Not sure what has made the difference, but for the past couple of months I have been able to get all the locals from one antenna direction. In the past, to get WAKA reliably I had to adjust my antenna and then adjust it back to get all the other locals (rarely could I get them all from the same antenna position). In the past, WAKA was the odd man out with it's Selma tower (between Montgomery and Selma). Even with WAKA at reduced power the reception is still great. WCOV has been problematic at times in the past, even with the anenna in an optimal position but I have had no problems lately.
Hopefully this is not just due to atmospheric condition during this time of year.
(I am between Wetumpka and Millbrook).

Sounds like trees.

Sounds like trees.

No, there aren't any trees (or leaves) that were intefering (I had those cut down 2 or 3 years ago). WAKA comes in perfectly now in the same atenna position as WCOV and the others. I believe Jim mentioned a while back that his reception of WCOV was much better. I've experienced the same thing. My WAKA reception has always been good-just had to reorient my antenna. Of course, I probably shouldn't have posted anything, I may now have cursed my reception.

WAKA is at reduced power and the trees are not in your yard, they are in the 45 miles between you and AKA.

WAKA is at reduced power and the trees are not in your yard, they are in the 45 miles between you and AKA.

When are they bringing power back up? Low power is pain. :mad:

There's a Jeff Foxworthy joke in there somewhere. You know you're a redneck when.....(as in my case) you're wondering if your neighbors would notice that you cut down their trees so that you can get better TV reception.

When are they bringing power back up? Low power is pain. :mad:

We are currently operating at approximately 65% power, but we have a tower crew working on removing the channel 8 antenna and installing the new channel 42 antenna, so we have to reduce power to around 10% while they are working near the antenna. Lately, that's been pretty much all day, yesterday they didn't bring the power back up until about 5:30 PM.

Barring technical problems, WAKA will be operating at approximately 65% power until around February 9th, at which point we will reduce power even further to approximately 30% power. On February 18th, we will be at approximately 50% power on channel 42, then as soon as possible after that we will get the power up to 100%.

I know it's causing problems for a lot of people, but with the restrictions the FCC has imposed, moving from channel 55 to channel 42 is a challenge.

Russ

Wonder how going to 42 will affect the b'ham station 42.1 which I locked into early this morning? Will I not be able to map it then?

WIAT 42-1 Birmingham is on channel 30. WEIQ 42-1 Mobile is on channel 41. No interference will occur once the respective analog signals are gone. WAKA-DT will operate channel 42 at low power until those analog signals go away for precisely that reason.

- Trip

Ok, thanks

We are currently operating at approximately 65% power, but we have a tower crew working on removing the channel 8 antenna and installing the new channel 42 antenna, so we have to reduce power to around 10% while they are working near the antenna. Lately, that's been pretty much all day, yesterday they didn't bring the power back up until about 5:30 PM.

Barring technical problems, WAKA will be operating at approximately 65% power until around February 9th, at which point we will reduce power even further to approximately 30% power. On February 18th, we will be at approximately 50% power on channel 42, then as soon as possible after that we will get the power up to 100%.

I know it's causing problems for a lot of people, but with the restrictions the FCC has imposed, moving from channel 55 to channel 42 is a challenge.

Russ

I watched those Tower guys on "The Worlds Toughest Fixes" (NGCHD) No freakin way would you catch me up there. That is just plain nutz.

Does anyone live in the Lake Martin/Blue Creek area and have any luck with OTA. Charter just doubled the price on basic cable and my parents want to switch to OTA. Would a CM 4228 with pre-amp pull in Birmingham and Montgomery locals? Would they get any FOX channels at all?

Thanks.

Got a football emergency going on here.

Did Brighthouse ever add Fox in HD?????

Not yet, Happy New Year everyone.

Not yet, Happy New Year everyone.

Happi Nooo Yeer 2 u 2...<hic>:D

PS.. Your Dish811 is working well.

Thats good to hear. I may need to trade back if my cable goes up again!:D:D:D

Charter just doubled the price on basic cable and my parents want to switch to OTA.

TV stations are getting too greedy. Sure, they should have agreements with the cable operators, but what ever happened to the Community Antenna part of CATV? Bottom line is all that matters anymore. :rolleyes:

And the economy isn't helping...with the recent WSFA & Raycom layoffs as case-in-point. DTV Transition and Recession don't mix.

TV stations are getting too greedy. .

Tv stations aren't asking for much..besides, cable has gotten us for free for many,many years while paying for everything else. You should look into what ESPN and some others charge.

And you're right Tim, the dtv transition could not be coming at a worse time.
I wonder how many stations won't survive?:(

Looks like Opp and Demopolis is in WSFA's cross hairs.
http://www.wsfa.com/global/story.asp?s=9572076

My question is now that Brighthouse has come to terms with wcov, does this mean we will get fox in HD now. I know where they can put it. Take the stupid Hallmark station off and put real HD there! At least MOJO had real HD programs!

Picked up a CM 4228 today at Electronic Supply in MGM today. Got home just as the Sugar Bowl started. Suffered through the first half in fuzzy SD.
During half time I couldn't help myself and went and just hung up the 4228 with some wire at about eye level above the crown of my roof line on my tower.

BAM! ( Larry Williams reference http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCXE9ZJb-RI NOT PC! )

FOX HD!

Sweet!

Why did I wait two years to do this???

Britt

I hope channel 12 takes that freakin map down before NFL football starts. :mad::mad:

I hope channel 12 takes that freakin map down before NFL football starts. :mad::mad:

LOL. You know they won't. They have a captive audience and want to show off their graphics. As the rains move in it will only get worse. Expect Rich Thomas to break in at any moment. And, don't be surprised if he doesn't direct a wall-to-wall coverage until every drop of rain has left the state. Shoot, we may get several views from the new freakin' skycam high atop the Hampton Inn in Prattville! .... I can't wait!

LOL. You know they won't. They have a captive audience and want to show off their graphics. As the rains move in it will only get worse. Expect Rich Thomas to break in at any moment. And, don't be surprised if he doesn't direct a wall-to-wall coverage until every drop of rain has left the state. Shoot, we may get several views from the new freakin' skycam high atop the Hampton Inn in Prattville! .... I can't wait!

Maybe Rich and his girlfriend are out for the day...:)

Somethings never change.:D:D:D

Hey again everyone.

As I've had quite enough of Bright House Networks, I've gone ahead and gotten a subscription to Dish Network. They should be here Wednesday afternoon to get everything set up. But I have a few questions regarding the local channels. Will I be able to get the HD local stations in this area without going over the air? And if not, will I still be able to see NBC, CBS, etc. in HD? Finally, anyone here who has it, what do you think of it so far? Thanks in advance for all the replies.

You can get an outside antenna for HD locals and route it through your Dish receiver. Depending on what model you get, you would have either single or dual ATSC tuners.

You can get an outside antenna for HD locals and route it through your Dish receiver. Depending on what model you get, you would have either single or dual ATSC tuners.

Thanks very much for your help. I should still be getting the local stations in standard definition, right? And the national, HD versions of NBC, CBS, et al, I presume?

In the way of an explaination, you get the signal from these national networks through their local affiliates. (Charter cable TV's problem with Fox is unique and isn't the norm as its a contract dispute). Dish is retransmitting the SD version from these local affiliates through the satellite signal. Since we're in a small market, it can be quite a while before they retransmit the HD signal due to capacity limitations on the satellites.

To get these networks in HD in Montgomery, Elmore and Autauga areas(legally) you need an OTA antenna.

There is a way (illegally) to say that you've moved to a larger market (Birmingham) and get the HD signal for that market, but I think that causes bigger problems down the road if you need to have youre dish realigned or your receiver serviced.

Okay, so I'm not going to get HD network channels through Dish Network at all? I HAVE to use an OTA antenna to get NBC, CBS, FOX, and ABC in HD period? This blows. :(

Until Dish adds the HD subchannels for the locals, that's correct.

Personally, I prefer OTA and having the option, chose it over cable and satillite for my locals because its more reliable, cleaner picture and its free.

So what's the latest with Dimhouse and WCOV?

Brighthouse and WCOV (Fox) came to terms per a Fox news release that's mainly about Charter not coming to terms and dropping Fox service effective Jan 1.

http://www.myfoxmontgomery.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail;jsessionid=36FFB9C9D0BFD07262C75C920E8F10B9?contentId =8132452&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1&sflg=1

Hey JimP, sorry to bother you all again, but you guys are always really helpful when I have problems with these guys and I'm hoping you might can answer the call of duty just a few more times, hopefully. I know next to nothing about getting OTA stuff. I guess I'm going to go ahead and try that out since I gotta have my networks in HD, after all. Can you explain what kind of antenna I should get (brand, type, etc) and what I need to do to install it?

TV stations are getting too greedy. Sure, they should have agreements with the cable operators, but what ever happened to the Community Antenna part of CATV? Bottom line is all that matters anymore. :rolleyes:

And the economy isn't helping...with the recent WSFA & Raycom layoffs as case-in-point. DTV Transition and Recession don't mix.

Am I reading this wrong? When I was a wee child, we had that kind of cable...got about 4 each of ABC, CBS, NBC. But you know, the cable companies CHARGED subscribers back then too ! And all their content was free. So I'm sure you mean the CABLE COMPANIES are getting too greedy, since mine just hiked basic by $5 to "cover the local stations fee". Hmmmm...according to my calculations (and I know the amounts) they are being charged collectively less than a dollar. Now they charge me $5. Who's greedy?

Until Dish adds the HD subchannels for the locals, that's correct.

Personally, I prefer OTA and having the option, chose it over cable and satillite for my locals because its more reliable, cleaner picture and its free.
I agree with the cleaner picture and being free but, as far as more reliable, I'm not sure about that. I continue to have signal strength problems with WAKA, WCOV and WNCF. WSFA comes in pretty strong all the time but, i bet that will change next month when they switch to VHF. WAKA is the biggest headache for me. One day it will come in great, the next it will hardly come in at all. Odd thing is that it could be overcast on the day when it comes in great and a clear blue sky on the day it doesn't. WNCF and WCOV are kinda hit and miss for me all the time, although WCOV has been coming in pretty good the past week or so.

Of course, my main problem is probably the cheap $15 rabbit ears antenna that I'm using in my attic right now. One day I hope to buy a better antenna and clear up these problems (maybe after the deadline next month or with tax refund money).

Am I reading this wrong? When I was a wee child, we had that kind of cable...got about 4 each of ABC, CBS, NBC. But you know, the cable companies CHARGED subscribers back then too ! And all their content was free. So I'm sure you mean the CABLE COMPANIES are getting too greedy, since mine just hiked basic by $5 to "cover the local stations fee". Hmmmm...according to my calculations (and I know the amounts) they are being charged collectively less than a dollar. Now they charge me $5. Who's greedy?

Don't read it wrong--My point is, since individuals get OTA for free using their personal antenna, why do cable providers have to pay some TV stations for individuals to use their Community Antenna (of course subscribers pay for the service ;))? Sure, there should be agreements and stipulations, but a TV station charging for a free service it already provides? I dunno. I can see the points on both sides, but is it really fair to the people who don't have personal antennae? Or am I just a stick in the mud? :) Cable companies are still considered the enemy though!

Now that $5 thing--that IS outright greedy. I thought you didn't even own a TV! I do, but I'm OTA-only now. :D

...snip...
Of course, my main problem is probably the cheap $15 rabbit ears antenna that I'm using in my attic right now.

When I was a kid, I tried to use a chain link fence as an antenna. Probably worked about as good. :)

Hey JimP, sorry to bother you all again, but you guys are always really helpful when I have problems with these guys and I'm hoping you might can answer the call of duty just a few more times, hopefully. I know next to nothing about getting OTA stuff. I guess I'm going to go ahead and try that out since I gotta have my networks in HD, after all. Can you explain what kind of antenna I should get (brand, type, etc) and what I need to do to install it?

Tell us what area of town you're living in and maybe somebody near you can make a recommendation that works for them.

Don't read it wrong--My point is, since individuals get OTA for free using their personal antenna, why do cable providers have to pay some TV stations for individuals to use their Community Antenna (of course subscribers pay for the service ;))? Sure, there should be agreements and stipulations, but a TV station charging for a free service it already provides? I dunno. I can see the points on both sides, but is it really fair to the people who don't have personal antennae? Or am I just a stick in the mud? :) Cable companies are still considered the enemy though!

Now that $5 thing--that IS outright greedy. I thought you didn't even own a TV! I do, but I'm OTA-only now. :D

OK- I'll go for no fee paid to stations IF the cable company provides the locals free. That's fair....until of course, the cable company uses the locals as bait to buy into pay per view and higher levels of service. Which they will.
No, on second thought they should pay for the most popular channels they carry....which would be the big 4.

Hello to all. I moved here last year from Denver to the Montgomery, Woodmere (Zip 36117) area. I'm doing online research to determine the feasibility of using OTA for local channels and found you guys to be the most knowlegdeable and helpful. I have three HD TV's to hook up. My primary question is the availability of someone local that installs antennas. I have searched online to no avail. I don't know if the install is a job that I can do myself and I'd like to get an installers antenna recommendation for my location based on tower signal directions, strength and degrees of spread. I am leaning towards DishNetwork for the Turbo HD Silver package and the 722k HDVR for the primary TV. I think that I can use an HD box for the second TV. I'm hoping to route the coax through the Dish to the 722k box and be able to record locals in HD. The third TV is mostly only used by the grandkids to play games and I will run coax without an STB. I am not going to do the project until after the mid February digital change is finalized. Right now I have Charter and the bill is up to $100 without any premiums. Internet is another $50. My wife and I only watch and record the major networks and maybe 4 cable only channels. Crazy what you have to get to watch so few. Long post, any advice or help would be appreciated. Thanks

Picked this up off WCOV's site.

WCOV-FOX20 and Charter agree to a one week extension

Press Release Montgomery, Alabama December 31, 2008

WCOV FOX-20 announced today that a short-term agreement with Charter Cable was reached which will enable Charter to continue carrying WCOV FOX-20 in Montgomery and the surrounding areas. The term of the agreement is one-week and will begin at midnight on December 31st and expire on Wednesday night at midnight January 7th, 2009

At 4:30 pm on New Year’s Eve, after several days and many hours of negotiations, both parties agreed to a one week extension. David Woods WCOV’s President said, “We worked very hard to finalize the formal agreement with Charter and time just ran out. We felt it would be in the best interest of the viewers to do the one-week extension. The Charter Executives are to be complimented as they put forth significant effort to complete the formal agreement. They worked late on New Year’s Eve as their offices are on East Coast time. At 5:30pm eastern time, we decided it was time to go home”.

Woods said, “We are excited that Charter customers will be able to watch the Sugar Bowl with Alabama Crimson Tide and Utah on January 2nd as well as the Cotton Bowl, Orange Bowl, Fiesta Bowl and the NFC Wild games on Sunday January 4th.”

Negotiations will resume on Monday January 5th.
For more information please call David Woods at 334-288-7020 or email Paul@WCOV.com

This a response I got from WCOV:
We are low power digital as of right now. By feb 17th we will be full power. As far as Brighthouse is concerned, they will eventually be piggy backing off of Charter for the digital, this is my understanding. Not sure when that will be. Thanks for your inquiry. Mike Hunsberger

Another from WCOV FOX:
Currently no, but in a few weeks yes! There is no way for Brighthouse to receive our HD signal until we are broadcasting at full power digitally. This is no fault of Brighthouse's. We are currently broadcasting a low power digital signal and will be up to full power soon. They have no way to receive our HD signal as there is no direct line to Brighthouse carrying it (pardon the technical jargon). Thanks for your feedback and sorry for any inconvenience!
-Drew

Why are the cable company's so lazy and cheap to think OTA is the only way to get the signal?
Can you say Fiber?

Why are the cable company's so lazy and cheap to think OTA is the only way to get the signal?
Can you say Fiber?

Yea,especially if there is no fiber available..as it's only about $10k per mile, plus pole rights, directional borings, surveys, etc..

So where is Brighthouse's antenna location?

There's fiber everywhere. All they need to do is call AT&T and get their check book out.

They don't get the analog OTA.

I can't stand FOX. They have been the only channel that I have had trouble picking up for 2 years. Now that the Game is about to start I have lost the signal. This sucks
steve

Perfect in Millbrook OTA

Perfect here in East Montgomery.

Since I'm somewhat new to the area still, I have a question for those who may work at some of the local stations.

Is there any chance that we will see some or all the 4 major local channels in HD on Dish Network soon? Have talks even started between Dish and some local channels? I just think it is weird that the have the SD versions and would not have at least begun talks about the HD versions. I realize that the Montgomery market just isn't that big and Dish has space limitations for local HD channels. Just kinda wandering if the hold up is more of talks in progress thing or Dish just not even pursuing it yet?

I can't stand FOX. They have been the only channel that I have had trouble picking up for 2 years. Now that the Game is about to start I have lost the signal. This sucks
steve

Receiving it just fine in Jasmine Hills/ Wetumpka.

What are you using for an antenna?

Since I'm somewhat new to the area still, I have a question for those who may work at some of the local stations.

Is there any chance that we will see some or all the 4 major local channels in HD on Dish Network soon? Have talks even started between Dish and some local channels? I just think it is weird that the have the SD versions and would not have at least begun talks about the HD versions. I realize that the Montgomery market just isn't that big and Dish has space limitations for local HD channels. Just kinda wandering if the hold up is more of talks in progress thing or Dish just not even pursuing it yet?

We are 118th.
They are getting close
http://www.tvb.org/rcentral/markettrack/US_HH_by_DMA.asp


Keep an eye here
http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=101

When our DMA gets uplinked they will know first.

Look on the bright side. Direct doesn't even have SD locals for this area.

Receiving it just fine in Jasmine Hills/ Wetumpka.


What kind of antenna are you using ?

What kind of antenna are you using ?


I'm using two amplified Channelmaster 4228s which are stacked one above the other aimed in slightly different directions.

This may not be what you need. My house sits in a low area in the subdivision which I'm pretty sure causes reception problems that had to be overcomed by using two of these directional high gain antennas.

It is raining again. Those crap folks at 8 are screwing us again.

What are you mumbling about? :D:D:D

I dont get all the fuss about receiving these channels. Are we that bored?

using a channel master 4228 amped by 7777 and a rotator. Today I am having no trouble with fox, but it is the only channel that I ever have any trouble with. But like I said looks great today.

spoke too soon now during 24 I get no signal.

I don't understand why everybody else gets this but I have trouble.
what gives

spoke too soon now during 24 I get no signal.

I don't understand why everybody else gets this but I have trouble.
what gives

Who installed your antenna? Pre terminated cable?

I just wish WCOV would not run their local breaks all over 24. Is that too much to ask? :mad:

I did it myself with compression fittings. I get 100 on all three of the other channels, I get 70 on fox and lately it has been cutting out. Antenna web says that fox is 147 deg. from my address so I point it at 147 and get 68-70. I would think if it was an installation prob I would have trouble with all. WAKA is the furthest from me and I get 100. I just can't seem to fugure this out.
steve

I may split the signal and run haf to the TV tuner just to rule out the 622

spoke too soon now during 24 I get no signal.

I don't understand why everybody else gets this but I have trouble.
what gives

In case you don't know, in a day or two you can watch that episode on fox's website.

Yes, but my problem is for the future with the super bowl party I thought I was going to have. Unless I get this worked out I won't be having it. it is on FOX correct.

using a channel master 4228 amped by 7777 and a rotator. Today I am having no trouble with fox, but it is the only channel that I ever have any trouble with. But like I said looks great today.

Sounds like you're at the minimum limit and when the signal fluctuates slightly, you loose your signal.

Check your PM in a few minutes.

Yes, but my problem is for the future with the super bowl party I thought I was going to have. Unless I get this worked out I won't be having it. it is on FOX correct.

Ummmm...Nope.. NBC..

I did it myself with compression fittings. I get 100 on all three of the other channels, I get 70 on fox and lately it has been cutting out. Antenna web says that fox is 147 deg. from my address so I point it at 147 and get 68-70. I would think if it was an installation prob I would have trouble with all. WAKA is the furthest from me and I get 100. I just can't seem to fugure this out.
steve

I may split the signal and run haf to the TV tuner just to rule out the 622

The problem might be 1kw at 500 feet. Not much to start...not much to lose.

Two more stations added. a Church station and oldies I think channel. Brighthouse . Also Major league baseball station. Brighthouse.I want my FOX

The problem might be 1kw at 500 feet. Not much to start...not much to lose.
Not to sound stupid but what does that mean.

Not to sound stupid but what does that mean.

WAKA-DT 55 was operating at 1577' 1000 kW. (They've either already reduced power or will shortly) On channel 42, when all is said and done, it will be 1626' 1000 kW.

WCOV-DT 16 is operating at 511' 1.1 kW.

The power difference alone is huge, but the lower height is what really makes it difficult to lock the signal over any kind of distance. UHF signals are line of sight, which means the higher you are, the further the signal will carry.

What he's saying is that WCOV-DT is at such low power, and at such a low height, it's a wonder you receive anything at all out of them.

- Trip

Big Bang theory tonight.

Man I guess it was a network problem. I was watching it on Atlanta 46.
The dialog was so low that when you turned the volume up to hear it, the canned laughter would blow you out of your chair!

EDIT:
They fixed it with 11 minutes to go.

I'm watching today's Y&R on my TiVo. It's in SD. Is there still a problem with the HD feed for this show?

Ok thanks trip, that makes sense.
steve

Brighthouse.I want my FOX

I know, I think I want to switch to Dish Network. :(

Novice,

Dish does not have Fox in HD in the Montgomery area. You still would need an OTA antenna. The very unofficial rumor is that once Fox goes full power, then Brighthouse will add it.

I'm watching today's Y&R on my TiVo. It's in SD. Is there still a problem with the HD feed for this show?

We were replacing the cable from our main CBS dish to the building so we had to switch to the secondary dish for a while (SD only.) We are now running on the new cable, so everything should be back to normal.

Russ

We were replacing the cable from our main CBS dish to the building so we had to switch to the secondary dish for a while (SD only.) We are now running on the new cable, so everything should be back to normal.

Russ

I'm watching today's episode now. It is back in HD and looks great. I wonder why no other daytime soap is in HD? I suppose being #1 has its privileges.

I wonder why no other daytime soap is in HD? I suppose being #1 has its privileges.

Has nothing to do withe being #1. It has to do with the high cost of converting to HD for production with NO return on the investment. You can't get more money for commericals because a soap is in HD.

Receiving it just fine in Jasmine Hills/ Wetumpka.

What are you using for an antenna?

Jim, Got the PJ up and running. Let me know if you wanna check it out sometime. :)

I have Charter (uhg) and am increasingly unhappy with the service. I have a Terk indoor antenna but can not pick up WAKA at all ...even regular channel 8 and certainly not the HD or WCOV HD (can get regular analog 20) and no WNCF HD or analog. I can get WSFA (all 3 )fine as well as PBS and the 4 channel 45's.

Should I get an attic antenna (looking at Clear Stream 2 or 4) or would I need it outdoor ? Any help greatly appreciated.

Where do you live?
What type of roof? Metal, Shingle,
Is your decking foil backed?

I live in Halcyon South...house backs up to Taylor Rd. High pine trees on the berm about 25 yards behind my house. Architectural shingle roof. Not sure what you mean by decking foil. Thanks for the help !

Scott, my roof decking is just plywood ...no foil. Is this what you meant ? I have Charter and Directv. I can't get local on DTV (except waiver from one of the 4). Can't get OTA with my indoor Terk except WSFA , PBS and the 4 religious (channel 45). Opinion on antenna ?

Really sad that you can't get everything you want from one provider. Directv is the best overall product but no locals and rain fade are a problem. Charter 's picture is CONSTANTLY tiling and freezing...one time they come out and say too much signal,the next too little. Their customer service is ignoring me ...will be a short relationship at this rate.

I would like to receive the locals OTA. I almost pulled the trigger on the Clear Stream 2 or 4 but don't really know much about this issue. Want to make sure I'm getting what I need.

I have Charter (uhg) and am increasingly unhappy with the service. I have a Terk indoor antenna but can not pick up WAKA at all ...even regular channel 8 and certainly not the HD or WCOV HD (can get regular analog 20) and no WNCF HD or analog. I can get WSFA (all 3 )fine as well as PBS and the 4 channel 45's.

Should I get an attic antenna (looking at Clear Stream 2 or 4) or would I need it outdoor ? Any help greatly appreciated.
I'm stuck down here in the boonies with no chance at all of getting WCOV or WNCF DT with their current antenna and power status so just a couple of broad comments here.

"Regular" channel 8 WAKA is non-existent. They've already killed their analog signal.

UHF/VHF is primarily "line of sight" though reception is definitely possible where "line of sight" isn't happening. If the berm that you spoke of is to the west of your house this could actually be blocking signal from WAKA-DT (and maybe WCOV-DT)...getting the antenna in the attic or on a mast/pole might help clear some of this obstacle.

Outside is always better.

The higher elevation, (normally) the better.

The shorter the coax run, the better. Anything much over 50' I like a pre-amp up at the antenna.

I'm sold on the Channel Master 4228 but I believe they've changed this to a (tongue-in-cheek) "HD" version....basically made it lighter duty. It is an 8-bay bow-tie antenna but would probably be overkill for you. A CM4221 (I think that is the 4-bay model) might do you well. I would imagine, though, that in the metro area you may have more issues with multi-path...a more directional antenna "might" be better.

The first thing I would do is buy enough coax to reach into your attic. Run the coax *outside* into your yard and connect the Terk to it. If you know where a bamboo thicket is go cut you a nice long one and tape the terk to the tip of it (I've done this with $5 dollar star rabbit ears and it works great...I know where one is that has been working great for over two years:p) Otherwise any kind of extendable pole will do. Once in the yard and elevated you should be able to get a better idea of what your OTA capabilities really are.

Next thing would be to snake the coax into the attic and see what kind of reception you get there. I would expect the signal to be degraded...to what degree is yet to be seen.

You may or may not be able to use the Terk. The Terk is a directional antenna and It may pick up the channels just fine but have to be turned toward the transmitting antennas...WSFA being due south of you (WCOV will be down there soon...we hope), WAKA will be to the west and WNCF I'm not so sure of (to the NW???). It would be a pain to go in the attic to turn the antenna each time you changed channels...in this situation an outdoor antenna mounted on a rotor would work in the attic.

Higher and outside is best, next is attic and higher *if* you don't have foil-backed insulation stapled to the trusses thus shielding the antenna. Something else to watch for is if your house is stucco...most stucco structures have a wire mesh attached to the outside walls for the stucco to attach to...this acts as a shield, too. Aluminum siding would be a pain for indoor antennas, too.

There's several options for you and I'm sure some of the guys here will have better info for you. But, getting an antenna outside to see how good of a signal you have at your location is a good project to begin with, then go from there. If you opt for an outside antenna then you might want to do some "probing" which is basically trying the antenna at different locations and heights...it can make a difference. Matter of fact, I'd recommend that if doing an attic installtion, too. :)

So much for the country boy's rantings. Best wishes,
Ed

I have Directv and Dish because I have 2 addresses.

I have had good luck with this antenna.
http://www.winegarddirect.com/viewitem.asp?p=WD-SMS2000
I chose this antenna because it's omnidirectional and amplified.
Mine is about 20 feet in the air and I pick up everything on both receivers (even fox).

Since your with Direct it's really easy to change your address. I have Atlanta Locals via Satellite and Montgomery Locals via OTA. Kind of the best of both worlds.

Thanks to both of you for your feedback ! I really appreciate the help. I'm just feeling my way right now. You you or have you run accross anyone using a firewire (IEEE1394) OTA reciver (Samsung SIR T165 for example). I have been recording HD football games on D-VHS tapes for like 3 or 4 years now. I need an OTA firewire enabled input to record off the local channels. Thanks again you guys. Let me know if ya'll put together a local meeting.

I just ordered the ClearStream 4 today from solidsignal.com (only $60 from them right now) so, I'll let you know how it goes. I live in Halcyon Oaks so I should be able to give you a decent idea as to how good or bad it works for this area of town. You can fill out a short questionnaire and e-mail solidsignal.com on there website, describing your location and what type of install you want (attic/outdoors or indoors etc.), and they'll send you a recommended antenna a few days later. http://www.solidsignal.com/antenna_selector.asp

Right now I have a cheap rabbits ear antenna hanging in my attic and it has done okay but the signal is not too reliable. I'm hopping that the CS4 will boost the signal strength just enough so that the 4 major locals become more steady (especially WCOV which has always been hit or miss but, since Tuesday, hasn't come in at all).

Thanks for your repsonse . I would be very interested un how the CS4 works for you since we are so similarly located. Please follow up with me when you receive it. I'd be happy to help you ...it would give me a chance to learn along the way. Thanks again !

I need an OTA firewire enabled input to record off the local channels. .

You should look into a PC with TsReader and tuner card for reception and recording,(with bluray burner) and a Popcorn Hour A110 for playback.
It's much more versatile. :) DVHS is such "old" technology. ;)

DVHS is such "old" technology. ;)

Very good point. Technology moves along so fast that you don't want to get married to something that's already dated.

My apologies in advance if I'm being too much of a noob with my questions.

I live in Prattville and have DirecTV. We don't watch network TV on a regular basis and I've been receiving local channels via one of those antennas you clip on your dish. (I also get NBC/ABC with DirecTV but that's only because when I moved here from Florida they didn't deactivate them.) I can get 8-1, 12-1, 20-1, 26-1, 29-1 somewhere in the range of 60-80%. I can't get 32-1 at all and the analog channel is fuzzy but clears up if I move the antenna. Thinking I needed to be up higher, I got a multi-directional antenna that attaches to the dish and is above the dish. There was no change to my reception. We aren't supposed to have huge antennas in our yards and I don't want to get in a fight about it so getting a better antenna and sticking it way up in the air isn't an option. Is there a better way?

I also noticed from their respective Wikipedia pages that the digital signals for WAKA, WCOV, WSFA, WNFC are 1000kw, 1000kw, 600kw, and 10.9kw respectively. Will WNFC increase its digital signal on February 17 and if yes, will that increase my chances of reciving 32-1?

The power on WNCF isn't as much of a problem as their height is. They're currently at about 500 feet from a tower right in Montgomery. Their analog antenna (which is where they'll end up after the transition) is up about 1800 feet from a tower near the tower WAKA is on. So if you get WAKA-DT now, I imagine it's a safe bet that WNCF should be workable for you.

- Trip

bdfox...thanks so much for the response. I have been looking at buying a bluray burning computer for about a year now. I've looked at Sony, Dell etc. Heard bad things about HP. I have used a D-VHS recorder to record football games for about 3-4 yrs. now. I would want to be able to transfer from D-VHS to blu ray of course.

Blu Ray discs are still pretty expensive and I've been able to use S-VHS tapes(same tape quality as D-VHS and works when a second hole is drilled to allow it to come down on the carriage).

Any recommendation on a computer ? I am ready to make a move soon. My problem and why I originally posted is I have Directv(no locals), Charter cable(tiling and freezing especially locals and ESPN) and my little indoor Terk only picks up WSFA(NBC),PBS and the 5 religious cahnnels(45.1,2 etc.). Thanks in advance for your help.

For HTPC, building one is the best route if you have the skills. I'm finishing up a new one now..Gigabyte MA78GM mainboard with VGA,DVI, and HDMi outputs..AMD Phenom X3 proc, and 4 Gb memory, 200gb Op drive and 500 gb media drive to go with the Popcorn Hour with internal 640gb drive. It plays high-bitrate HD and Bluray just fine using power DVD8.

TSReader supports D-VHS dependent upon your deck, I got rid of mine about 2 years ago. I have one PC that records OTA DTV, another does satellite and component HD. These are both networked as shares to the Popcorn Hour for playback... 1.5Tb total storage.

Bob, I WISH I could build my own. I know a little bit...just enough to be dangerous. Wow, sounds like you have a GREAT setup !

Are you able to relate about what the cost would be for the system you are building ? I want to be able to do what you are doing basically. What is the Popcorn Hour to which you refer ? Also, what is the TS Reader ? Sorry for the low level knowledge. And again, thanks for your help!

I've looked at Sony, Dell etc. Heard bad things about HP.

None of the above.

If you can't do it get a local shop to build what you want.

A110 is at www.popcornhour.com

TsReader is at www.coolstf.com

Thanks both Scott and Bob ! Looks like I need to do some research on having what I need built for me compuetrwise. I have been waiting on a stand alone Blu Ray recorder but that looks like it is a ways away. It looks like having one built would be the way to go.

I know that my D-VHS is MPEG 2 and that DTV is mostly MPEG 4 now. So this A-110 sounds good along with TsReader. Looks like I need to make my computer the center of my viewing and recording entertainment,. Let me know of any other tips you may have. Thanks !