Montgomery, AL - HDTV [Text View] - Page 18

WAKA-DT 8

01-19-09, 10:28 AM

The power on WNCF isn't as much of a problem as their height is. They're currently at about 500 feet from a tower right in Montgomery. Their analog antenna (which is where they'll end up after the transition) is up about 1800 feet from a tower near the tower WAKA is on. So if you get WAKA-DT now, I imagine it's a safe bet that WNCF should be workable for you.

- Trip

Although WNCF will have height in the future, their power will only increase to about 89kw. And they will be about 35 miles from their current studio.
We have been running approx that power froim time to time while we had tower work going on and we are about a mile from their future site. All I can say is good luck with that. Talk about a thin signal ! They'll need to order more phone lines...when we were dropping to that level the phones lit up.

Oh, and WCOV seems to be headed to about 460kw--not 1mw--from WSFA's tower. Not official, but probable.

Trip in VA

01-19-09, 11:11 AM

Although WNCF will have height in the future, their power will only increase to about 89kw. And they will be about 35 miles from their current studio.
We have been running approx that power froim time to time while we had tower work going on and we are about a mile from their future site. All I can say is good luck with that. Talk about a thin signal ! They'll need to order more phone lines...when we were dropping to that level the phones lit up.

Oh, and WCOV seems to be headed to about 460kw--not 1mw--from WSFA's tower. Not official, but probable.

I've reliably received signals weaker than that over a distance of 79 miles. It's just a matter of having a decent antenna and being in a decent location. Extra power does help in difficult areas (such as indoor antennas), of course, but in general it's not that huge a difference. You're right to warn people though, I probably should have mentioned it.

Does WCOV already have an analog channel 20 antenna up on that tower? I imagine that's why they want to keep channel 20, though I can't see how that changed from the time of the channel elections to now...

- Trip

bdfox18doe

01-19-09, 11:15 AM

Extra power does help in difficult areas (such as indoor antennas), of course, but in general it's not that huge a difference. - Trip

You need more real world experience and less book learnin' there Trip! :) While we all know a decent antenna makes all the difference, that is not generally known by the average viewer. Most people your age have never heard of or seen outdoor antennas.

Trip in VA

01-19-09, 11:24 AM

You need more real world experience and less book learnin' there Trip! :)

You say that as though there's much book learning going on now. :D

While we all know a decent antenna makes all the difference, that is not generally known by the average viewer. Most people your age have never heard of or seen outdoor antennas.

And that's why I wrote my article in the newspaper last month. :) It's written for my local area up here in VA, but a lot of the general material still applies. http://www.southsidemessenger.com/articles/2008/12/18/news/top_stories/ts3.txt

- Trip

bdfox18doe

01-19-09, 11:27 AM

You say that as though there's much book learning going on now. :D- Trip

I do have a question, by your posts your'e a smart guy..and I'm sure you're not there taking fluff courses.. so how do find time for all this internet you do
and take care of school? Are you living on Rockstar and NOS drinks? :D

Trip in VA

01-19-09, 11:34 AM

I do have a question, by your posts your'e a smart guy..and I'm sure you're not there taking fluff courses.. so how do find time for all this internet you do
and take care of school? Are you living on Rockstar and NOS drinks? :D

Until this semester, I've been taking largely general education "necessary" classes, the easier things that don't focus on engineering that much. I think that'll be changing this semester, with multiple electricity-related classes. I'm hopeful that I can retain my Internet presence, but we'll see. :)

And I don't touch energy drinks or caffeine. I can keep myself awake during the day (most of the time) without such things. :D

- Trip

WackyEngineer

01-19-09, 03:17 PM

I've reliably received signals weaker than that over a distance of 79 miles. It's just a matter of having a decent antenna and being in a decent location. Extra power does help in difficult areas (such as indoor antennas), of course, but in general it's not that huge a difference. You're right to warn people though, I probably should have mentioned it.

Does WCOV already have an analog channel 20 antenna up on that tower? I imagine that's why they want to keep channel 20, though I can't see how that changed from the time of the channel elections to now...

- Trip

No doubt that if you really want to pull in a signal, you can, but the majority of the viewers around here don't fit into that category...they just want to hook up their rabbit ears or their 30 year old outdoor antenna and pick up the digital versions of all they analog channels that they receive. They don't want to combine multiple antennas, they don't want to use a rotor, they just want to watch TV. We are at 60-65% power right now, and one of the cable companies here in Montgomery is having trouble with OTA reception of our digital signal...they happen to be at a low elevation with a short tower.

And yes, WCOV is currently broadcasting their analog from WSFA's tower, their current plan as filed with the FCC is to use their existing transmission line and antenna with a new digital transmitter. As for the changes since channel elections, there's no doubt that a megawatt on 16 would have been a better choice, perhaps they were expecting a better financial situation than they have now.

Hope this makes sense, I keep getting interrupted by people who can't pick up our 600,000 watt signal on their rabbit ears 25 miles from the tower... :)

Russ

WAKA-DT 8

01-19-09, 04:19 PM

No doubt that if you really want to pull in a signal, you can, but the majority of the viewers around here don't fit into that category...they just want to hook up their rabbit ears or their 30 year old outdoor antenna and pick up the digital versions of all they analog channels that they receive. They don't want to combine multiple antennas, they don't want to use a rotor, they just want to watch TV. We are at 60-65% power right now, and one of the cable companies here in Montgomery is having trouble with OTA reception of our digital signal...they happen to be at a low elevation with a short tower.

And yes, WCOV is currently broadcasting their analog from WSFA's tower, their current plan as filed with the FCC is to use their existing transmission line and antenna with a new digital transmitter. As for the changes since channel elections, there's no doubt that a megawatt on 16 would have been a better choice, perhaps they were expecting a better financial situation than they have now.

Hope this makes sense, I keep getting interrupted by people who can't pick up our 600,000 watt signal on their rabbit ears 25 miles from the tower... :)

Russ
Honestly, this is not the beat down Tripp hour:)

It's true! I've lived it!
We have experienced the real world since December 1....it has been a real eye-opener. Most expect something "better" than analog. While it may be under ideal conditions, those don't happen very often. We have received over 2000 calls of trouble (yes we were at reduced power for some of those but at a megawatt for most). The killer is that when signal quality drops, you lose video AND audio...and that really pisses (is that the way you spell that--just doesn't look right to me;)) people off. Digital is not forgiving. MANY PEOPLE ARE NOT SOPHISTICATED ENOUGH TO DEAL WITH THAT. Maximum facilities is about all you can do to put some "head room" in for the viewer. WNCF has, in my opinion, made a major error in not maximizing. Look at the stories from Wilmington, Helena, and other markets that have switched early. They have had the same problems we had. Reliable digital OTA is going to be a metro thing. Those in the sticks (distant from tower) won't be so lucky. Once the analogs go off, bar the door. Katrina time. How many calls have I gotten from those that said they can get NO digital signals reliably in severe weather? Lots. Signal quality with ears at my house ranges from a 68 to 99 in calm weather (WCOV weakest at 68 and all the others at least 88 with WAKA and WAIQ at 99). In other words, great, solid reception on all local signals. But let that wind kick up outside, and you can't depend on any of them. Sure, the "stronger" signals are more stable, but still far from enjoyable viewing.
This will all wash out with time as people "adjust" to the new way, but unless
many of those out in the woods invest in satellite or a really sweet antenna system (read no to the latter...not at least for the average guy) they will be back in the 1950's with one or two signals that are reliable. Sorry...it is what it is...because people are what they are. And they should be. It shouldn't take an engineer at each house to make it work reliably.

Trip in VA

01-19-09, 07:20 PM

Honestly, this is not the beat down Tripp hour:)

:D

I hear what you're saying, that people expect what they have to work properly without any work on their part, but I doubt there's a way to make a system like that. If you try to use a car tire on your bicycle, it won't work. Using a hammer might force it on, but that still doesn't make it the correct solution.

The right thing to do is educate them that maybe a bicycle tire would fix the problem. Goodness, even a UHF indoor antenna can do the job! I used the Silver Sensor in testing at someone's house two weeks ago to get the local stations at 75 miles--no amp! The antenna can be bought online for about $20, and did its job perfectly.

Unfortunately, the PSAs aired by the stations basically told people that all you have to do is hook up the magic box and everything will be perfect. Whether or not that was the intention, that's what I've run into, and it should have been stressed just as much as the box.

But anyway, has DT-42 signed on yet?

Also WAKA-DT 8, either I have to send you a PM, or you need to send me an e-mail. But I figure you're busy with your station work, so I won't bother you til March! :D

- Trip

WAKA-DT 8

01-20-09, 10:26 AM

:D

I hear what you're saying, that people expect what they have to work properly without any work on their part, but I doubt there's a way to make a system like that. If you try to use a car tire on your bicycle, it won't work. Using a hammer might force it on, but that still doesn't make it the correct solution.

The right thing to do is educate them that maybe a bicycle tire would fix the problem. Goodness, even a UHF indoor antenna can do the job! I used the Silver Sensor in testing at someone's house two weeks ago to get the local stations at 75 miles--no amp! The antenna can be bought online for about $20, and did its job perfectly.

Unfortunately, the PSAs aired by the stations basically told people that all you have to do is hook up the magic box and everything will be perfect. Whether or not that was the intention, that's what I've run into, and it should have been stressed just as much as the box.

But anyway, has DT-42 signed on yet?

Also WAKA-DT 8, either I have to send you a PM, or you need to send me an e-mail. But I figure you're busy with your station work, so I won't bother you til March! :D

- Trip

Most repeated comment from the public: "Wat was wrong with the old system? Who's responsible for this crap? XXX##@@1&*". It's kinda disheartening, really. Here I am looking at a really pretty picture and I know how "capable" the package is. But that doesn't matter to most of the public. They could care less. They're just angry that digital doesn't work as well (apparently some impulse noise and snow were very acceptable). PM me anytime.

JimP

01-20-09, 10:31 AM

I think most the public is on cable and they haven't noticed anything.

WAKA-DT 8

01-20-09, 11:14 AM

I think most the public is on cable and they haven't noticed anything.

Just got this email, and it is typical of the flood. Thought the "real word" would give everyone an idea of what's going on. No doubt they could get a fine signal, it will just take about 2 or 3 calls from me each lasting about 45 minutes. Of course, once I get them fixed, they probably won't be able to get channel 12 because it will be coming from a different direction. This is typical of "our days" since December 1. Enjoy:

IT JUST SUCKS WE HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO GET YOUR CHANNEL WITH THE CONVERTER BOX NOR THE NEW FLAT TV. WE LIVE IN RUTLEDGE AL AND HAVE A HUGH ANTENNA ON A HUGH THING ALSO A BOOSTER....STILL NO 8. MY MOM LIVES IN GREENVILLE AL IN TOWN WITH AN ANTENNA AND CAN'T GET IT EITHER...

YOU MAY AS WELL TAKE YOUR CHANNEL OFF THE AIR...OUR FRIENDS BETWEEN GEORGIANA AND GREENVILLE CAN'T GET IT EITHER.

TV IS ONLY FOR THE RICH NOW IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD CABLE YOU HAVE NOTHING TO WATCH

bdfox18doe

01-20-09, 01:16 PM

Thought the "real word" would give everyone an idea of what's going on.

Mark's note is only a fraction of the typical comments we get from the public. Which is why we don't take it very well from some folks who post here the way they do..;) Some even argue with us when we try to help them. "It can't be the cable company, it's only your station" or the one I got last week " Ya'll need to turn the drums down we can't hear the guy calling the game"..

moedog

01-20-09, 02:18 PM

Well, I'm not surprised at the problems the Montgomery stations, and their viewers are having. When I first read of the transition plans for theese stations (on Trip's website) I knew this was going to be a rocky road. First, WAKA has one of the most convoluted transition plans in the country. I wonder why WAKA didn't stay on 8 for digital--I'm sure there is some good reason. Then there's WNCF with their flea powered digital, way out in the country---what could they be thinking? Of course, WSFA, like most Raycom stations, will be REDUCING their permanent power and coverage on Feb 18--this will cause a howl you won't believe. And who knows what WCOV will do. Most likely they will still have their same tiny digital footprint after Feb 17, and far into the future. Factor in a very large poor and isolated rural population who cannot afford cable, satelite or large antennas, and you've got a real mess on your hands. I congradulate WAKA for striving for a maximized digital signal---they will be the one signal many in the rural areas will recieve, though it will take a few months. IMHO the other three stations are not and will not be making much of an effort to serve their market, which, despite the economic situation, is rather shameful.

sarasdad

01-20-09, 02:21 PM

I for one have received nothing but helpful information from my local tv stations. although some more than others (tv 8). I was unable to receive tv 8 when it first started and received antenna directions and was even asked even to let them know of issues about picture quality.One trip to radio shack and a outside Amp and presto great picture. I am one of the lucky ones who pick up all my locals OTA. As with new technology there is sure to be problems but good God its not that important to act like an ass every time something goes wrong! I for on would like to thank my locals for the help and hard work in this endeavor.Oh by the way my outside antenna is 25 years old and not a fancy HD one. I had it up before cable came to Millbrook and never took it down.

JimP

01-20-09, 03:18 PM

Just got this email, and it is typical of the flood. Thought the "real word" would give everyone an idea of what's going on. No doubt they could get a fine signal, it will just take about 2 or 3 calls from me each lasting about 45 minutes. Of course, once I get them fixed, they probably won't be able to get channel 12 because it will be coming from a different direction. This is typical of "our days" since December 1. Enjoy:

IT JUST SUCKS WE HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO GET YOUR CHANNEL WITH THE CONVERTER BOX NOR THE NEW FLAT TV. WE LIVE IN RUTLEDGE AL AND HAVE A HUGH ANTENNA ON A HUGH THING ALSO A BOOSTER....STILL NO 8. MY MOM LIVES IN GREENVILLE AL IN TOWN WITH AN ANTENNA AND CAN'T GET IT EITHER...

YOU MAY AS WELL TAKE YOUR CHANNEL OFF THE AIR...OUR FRIENDS BETWEEN GEORGIANA AND GREENVILLE CAN'T GET IT EITHER.

TV IS ONLY FOR THE RICH NOW IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD CABLE YOU HAVE NOTHING TO WATCH

Obviously the problem calls can be aggrivating, but what percentage of the total viewers do you think are having a problem?

BradGCarr

01-20-09, 04:58 PM

It is aggravating when you can't get a signal. Just look what happens here in Montgomery when you have DirecTV and can't get the locals via satellite. I ask you: what's the solution?

Trip in VA

01-20-09, 05:11 PM

Well, I'm not surprised at the problems the Montgomery stations, and their viewers are having. When I first read of the transition plans for theese stations (on Trip's website) I knew this was going to be a rocky road. First, WAKA has one of the most convoluted transition plans in the country. I wonder why WAKA didn't stay on 8 for digital--I'm sure there is some good reason.

bdfox18doe or one of the other WAKA folks would have to answer that, but if I had to guess, I'd think the consultants told them that due to digitals on 9 in Mobile/Panama City/Columbus/Anniston, they'd have to cap power on channel 8 to some obscenely low level.

Then there's WNCF with their flea powered digital, way out in the country---what could they be thinking?

Probably that most of their audience is on cable and satellite.

Of course, WSFA, like most Raycom stations, will be REDUCING their permanent power and coverage on Feb 18--this will cause a howl you won't believe.

I must be looking at a different plot than you are, WSFA-DT has asked the FCC for 31 kW on channel 12, that signal should be very strong. The question is, will they have 31 kW out of the gate? The FCC's only approved about 1 kW right now, and seems to be dragging their feet on the matter.

And who knows what WCOV will do. Most likely they will still have their same tiny digital footprint after Feb 17, and far into the future.

If the FCC approves their channel change request, I imagine they'll just flash-cut analog 20 to digital 20 at the 460 kW they've asked for.

- Trip

Intheswamp

01-20-09, 06:32 PM

<chuckle>I can envision the writer of that email. Sadly, Rutledge once was a very nice little community with good, honest, hardworking, literate folks...I lived just about in the middle of it...those folks put up with me for 12 years. I moved out about 20 years ago. Since then there's be a lot of "new", more "transient" type of people that have moved in to a lot of the houses where several generations of locals once lived. Ah well, I've heard lately that it's time for a change anyhow.

Interestingly, I live a few miles to the west of Rutledge, thus between Greenville and Rutledge. I've been receiving WAKA-DT for over two years now with a CM4228 and a CM7777 sitting up about 17-feet. Been pretty consistent on reception, too. WAKA-DT, WSFA-DT, WTVY-DT(67 miles away), 45-DT, 29-DT, and WDIQ-DT, all come in pretty good for me. Every now and then I get some tropo from along the gulfcoast, but's tropo. :) Unfortunately, I've yet to reel in WNCF or WCOV but I'm aware of their status and still have hopes for both of them. Living on a hill helps me, I'm sure, but paying attention to details, educating myself a little, and making a modest investment is part of success, too. I can't wait around (nor hold my breath long enough;) ) for the wacky engineer or WAKA-DT 8 to come down here and set things up for me...but, a very, very large portion of John Q Public has been educated to wait for someone else (big brother) to take care of them...I believe that that is one reason the economy is currently coming apart at the seams.

Anyhow, I just wanted to say keep up the good work and that all viewers are not negative....and that a lot of us actually know what that "HUGE THING" is called that the "HUGE ANTENNA" is on.:D

Ed
Just got this email, and it is typical of the flood. Thought the "real word" would give everyone an idea of what's going on. No doubt they could get a fine signal, it will just take about 2 or 3 calls from me each lasting about 45 minutes. Of course, once I get them fixed, they probably won't be able to get channel 12 because it will be coming from a different direction. This is typical of "our days" since December 1. Enjoy:

IT JUST SUCKS WE HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO GET YOUR CHANNEL WITH THE CONVERTER BOX NOR THE NEW FLAT TV. WE LIVE IN RUTLEDGE AL AND HAVE A HUGH ANTENNA ON A HUGH THING ALSO A BOOSTER....STILL NO 8. MY MOM LIVES IN GREENVILLE AL IN TOWN WITH AN ANTENNA AND CAN'T GET IT EITHER...

YOU MAY AS WELL TAKE YOUR CHANNEL OFF THE AIR...OUR FRIENDS BETWEEN GEORGIANA AND GREENVILLE CAN'T GET IT EITHER.

TV IS ONLY FOR THE RICH NOW IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD CABLE YOU HAVE NOTHING TO WATCH

Intheswamp

01-20-09, 06:33 PM

rolltide1017

01-21-09, 01:43 AM

I don't mind using OTA and my new antenna should be here tomorrow (which will hopefully help) but, I really hope that Dish Network helps me out by adding our locals in HD soon (and by soon, I mean hopefully sometime this year).

At least I live in the city where it should be a little easier to deal with and at least know how to understand sites like antennaweb.org and TVFool.com.

I truly believe that this transition needs to happen (technology must move forward IMO) but, I do feel bad for those in rural areas where the transition will be a tough one for a while.

Is this Feb. 17 date a hard date, meaning we will have to re-scan to pick up any channel changes that day; or will stations ease in to the changes over the course of a week or so?

JimP

01-21-09, 03:13 AM

[QUOTE=Intheswamp;15607185...snip...

...but, a very, very large portion of John Q Public has been educated to wait for someone else (big brother) to take care of them....

[/QUOTE]

....and when big brother isn't there to save their butts, they complain.

I can see how people who have gotten by all their life scamming the man may think its a display of wits to see how little they have to work and how much they can get out of the system but what I'm amazed with is when something like katrina comes around and these same people think that they can somehow pull the same scam on mother nature. Drowning is drowning and death is pretty final.

Intheswamp

01-21-09, 09:25 AM

It is aggravating when you can't get a signal. Just look what happens here in Montgomery when you have DirecTV and can't get the locals via satellite. I ask you: what's the solution?

Brad, post a bit more information about your location and setup and I'll bet there'll be somebody here that can help you. Have you tried any type of antenna? A simple set of rabbitears could be a good start in receiving OTA signals. Getting a long length of coax and placing the rabbitears outside and seeing how strong of a signal you can get would be a worthy experiment. Moving the rabbits ears to the attic/upstairs would be another experiment.

I've got a friend that has a set of rabbitears on top of a bamboo pole standing up out beside his trailer(they've been there about two years now).:D He lives about 20 miles south of WSFA's tower which is located in Ramer, south of Montgomery...and receives WSFA-DT, WAKA-DT, for now the analog WCOV and WNCF, along with WTVY-DT(Dothan about 60 miles) and a few other independent and pbs DT stations. He does live in a rural area (as I do) so about the only interference/obstruction he has is trees.

Here's a few questions:
*House, apartment, mobilehome, etc,?
*Subdivision or rural setting?
*Live on a hill, or in a low area?
*Obstructions around you...large buildings, tall hills, etc.,?
*If you live in an apartment/condo complex do you live on the east, west, north, or south side?
*Are you allowed to install an outdoor antenna?
*Need to know what part of Montgomery you live in, too.

The transmitting towers are scattered a bit around Montgomery. I believe WAKA is to the southwest out past the airports , WSFA is to the south down in Ramer, WCOV will eventually share space on WSFA's tower but for now is (I think) somewhere close to Baptist Hosptial South and at very low power and elevation, WNCF is (I think) east of Jackson Hospital and also at low power. Thus, your location matters as to how well you will pick up the different stations and how much of an antenna you will require. WNCF and WCOV will eventually improve their signals somewhat whereas WAKA and WSFA are about where they're going to be (I think I read where WSFA may be cutting their power some???)

Anyhow, that should give you a little understanding on why we need to know your rough location and any peculiarities about your location in regards to your ability to receive OTA signals.

Holler back,
Ed

Intheswamp

01-21-09, 09:29 AM

I read an article the other day that Obama had stated that the country wasn't prepared for the switch-over and that it needed to be postponed.

Who knows...we may all get 50" flatscreens in the mail complete with masts and antennas (antenna size adjusted for your zipcode). I wonder if we'll have a choice of brands?:rolleyes:

Ed

I don't mind using OTA and my new antenna should be here tomorrow (which will hopefully help) but, I really hope that Dish Network helps me out by adding our locals in HD soon (and by soon, I mean hopefully sometime this year).

At least I live in the city where it should be a little easier to deal with and at least know how to understand sites like antennaweb.org and TVFool.com.

I truly believe that this transition needs to happen (technology must move forward IMO) but, I do feel bad for those in rural areas where the transition will be a tough one for a while.

Is this Feb. 17 date a hard date, meaning we will have to re-scan to pick up any channel changes that day; or will stations ease in to the changes over the course of a week or so?

sarasdad

01-21-09, 09:33 AM

I just want my check! I will decide what to buy!

WAKA-DT 8

01-21-09, 10:33 AM

BradGCarr

01-21-09, 10:38 AM

Ed: I really appreciate your taking the time to respond to my query. I live in a home four miles from downtown in a subdivision. By installing the dish on the chimney I cand get line of sight needed without obstructions. I know other of my neighbors have DirecTV because I can see the dish on a pole right in front of one house. I guess what I am still trying to figure out (before I actually call DirecTV to come out) is how I will have to get the locals. Obviously, I don't want to have to pay Knology for basic service AND have a satellite just to get CBS and NBC. That will get very expensive.

Crisis_Core

01-21-09, 10:39 AM

bdfox18doe

01-21-09, 10:40 AM

I live in a home four miles from downtown in a subdivision. .

Plot your address at www.tvfool.com that will tell you what you can receive.
Make sure you read the notes so you will know what the numbers mean.

Tim Ward

01-21-09, 01:53 PM

....and when big brother isn't there to save their butts, they complain.

I can see how people who have gotten by all their life scamming the man may think its a display of wits to see how little they have to work and how much they can get out of the system but what I'm amazed with is when something like katrina comes around and these same people think that they can somehow pull the same scam on mother nature. Drowning is drowning and death is pretty final.

I totally agree. Obama wanting to delay the transition because people aren't ready? If they're not ready, they're either expecting the government to take care of them, or they don't watch TV. If you watch TV, you can't say you haven't seen one of those PSAs! If you haven't seen them, you're not watching TV, and don't need to worry about it! :D

bdfox18doe

01-21-09, 02:27 PM

What PSA's? Did they run those at WAKA? :confused:

Tim Ward

01-21-09, 03:23 PM

What PSA's? Did they run those at WAKA? :confused:

:confused: DTV 2009 PSAs?

WackyEngineer

01-21-09, 05:20 PM

:D

...

But anyway, has DT-42 signed on yet?

...
- Trip

FYI, we signed on WAKA-DT 42 this morning. The signal on 42 and the signal on 55 are exactly the same, so they both show up as 8-1, 8-2, and 8-3.

More than likely, you won't notice anything unless you do a channel scan, at which point you will see two each of 8-1, 8-2, and 8-3, if your set works the same as ours...

If anyone tries to tune it in, please post your experiences here.

As a side note, if the governement decides to delay the transition, we will shut down 42 until closer to the transition.

Thanks,
Russ

WAKA-DT 8

01-21-09, 05:29 PM

What PSA's? Did they run those at WAKA? :confused:

Hell yes. Would you like the 17 boxes of documents piled up in my office documenting how we have educated the public? I won't be able to get in here if they extend the deadline. I could go out on the balcony, but whatever idiot designed this place didn't put a door in my glass wall.

Ahhh....the responsibility of being chosen as a "nightlight" station by the FCC....

JimP

01-21-09, 05:46 PM

That's to avoid suicide attempts when the FCC extends the analog cutoff.

jtrippe

01-21-09, 05:53 PM

JimP

01-21-09, 06:03 PM

4bama

01-21-09, 06:18 PM

[QUOTE=JimP;15616298]I see on the listing that its on satellite 129 which is in the western arc. I didn't see anything for an eastern arc satellite. Unless you've added satellite since Sept 1, 2008 you're on western arc. After Sept 1, you could be on either one depending on line of sight.[

Both B'ham and Montgomery get spot beams from 129, so look for you locals in HD as soon as DISH moves the new satellite from current test location at 138 degrees to it's final 129 location.

JimP

01-21-09, 06:21 PM

There's one already at 129 that's failing. The 138 one being moved is probably going to replace it. Or maybe just a game of outer space marbles using expensive satellites.

What's a little strange is that 61.5 in the eastern arc duplicates a lot of the channels thats on 129. You'd think 61.5 would also have our locals.

bdfox18doe

01-21-09, 07:12 PM

Hell yes. Would you like the 17 boxes of documents piled up in my office documenting how we have educated the public? I won't be able to get in here if they extend the deadline. I could go out on the balcony, but whatever idiot designed this place didn't put a door in my glass wall.

Ahhh....the responsibility of being chosen as a "nightlight" station by the FCC....

I thought that would get ya going.. not sure many here picked up on my cynicism..:D.. Glad I didn't design your office.

And for those of you who are unaware, WAKA has been chosen as a "nightlight" station.. which means they get to keep the analog transmitter on (the one they shut off on December 1st) for 1 month past the analog cut-off.:p

sarasdad

01-21-09, 08:36 PM

I just tuned in to waka 8 and now I have a strong steady picture without turning my outside antenna and using no amp.

tigerfan33

01-21-09, 08:57 PM

bdfox18doe

01-21-09, 09:10 PM

I just tuned in to waka 8 and now I have a strong steady picture without turning my outside antenna and using no amp.

Is that on 8.1(#1) or 8.1(#2)? :D

The first 8.1 you find will be channel 42, the second 8.1 will be channel 55.

rolltide1017

01-21-09, 11:20 PM

Today Dish Network uplinked WSFA, WNCF, WCOV and WAKA in MPEG-4 HD to their new Ceil-2 Sat. This Sat. should be functional by the end of the month. I would expect these to go live within the next couple of months. Here's the link:

http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-network-uplink-center/162220-uplink-activity-report-1-21-2009-4-12pm-145-changes.html

This is great news if you have Dish and antenna problems. :)
This is great news and I'm glad to see them on the western arc since that is what I had installed in October.

I also got my new ClearStream 4 antenna today and put it up in my attic. Very mixed results and I'm a little disappointed that my $15 RCA rabbit ears antenna worked almost as good. Almost makes me feel like I wasted $65. The new antenna improved my WAKA signal strength from the mid to high 60s up to the mid 90s! That was great but, that is where the good news stops. My WSFA strength dropped from the mid 80s to the high 70s (hitting 80 a little bit). A good solid signal but still sad to see a little drop in strength with a more expensive antenna. WNCF didn't change at all, still low to mid 60s but, not reliable. I still get a few drop outs every hour. I was really hopping that this antenna was going to improve WNCF because Lost started tonight. By adjusting the antenna I can get WNCF to hit the low 70s but, it causes WSFA to become unreliable.

Most disappointing is the fact that WCOV still will not come in at all. I've walked all over my attic and nothing. Oh, I found a couple spots that would pull in WCOV (low 60s signal with drop outs) but I would loose the other 3 completely in those spots. Not too impressed with the so far CS4. While it did greatly improve WAKAs signal, the other 3 channels are no different then my cheap throw-a-way antenna. For this reason I can not recommend the CS4, I probably should have gone with the 8 bay bow tie from Channel Master.

Even though Dish looks like they will be adding our locals, it be nice to havea good working antenna to offer a 3rd recording option on my DVR to help with some conflicts. Maybe the antenna's performance will improve after the switch when WNCF and WCOV move to there new tower locations.

JimP

01-22-09, 12:04 AM

rolltide,

According to this http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=C4 you only have a horizontal beamwidth of 70 degrees. Isn't the difference between 12 and 8 over 90 degrees? In other words, you can get each one if you turn the antenna towards that transmitter but you can't get both at the same time. If you plan on using a DVR which doesn't lend itself to using a rotar, you can go with either an antenna with a wider bandwidth or dual antennas and joiners. The problem with 20 is that you're inside a roof shooting into the side of your neighbors roofs. If you were to get it outside on a mast high enough to get above the roofs, you'd do better with 20. Or wait a few weeks when they increase their power and see if that's enough to get a solid signal. By the way, welcome to the world of ladders and scary antenna installations.

rolltide1017

01-22-09, 12:25 AM

Channels 12 (signal in the up 70s, low 80s) and 8 (signal in the 90s) are the 2 coming in fine, it is WCOV and WNCF that are the problems. WNCF comes in just not as reliable as 12& 8. WCOV has a nice solid signal of 0 (at least it is consistent).

Right now, in my attic, the antenna is basically pointed straight at the WCOV tower (yet still gets nothing). So, the 70 degree beamwidth is plenty to get WAKA & WNCF (which both come in) in that position and I guess WSFA is just leaking in from the back side of the antenna. My main problem with this antenna is that it didn't really improve my situation compared to my cheap rabbit ears antenna. While I'm grateful for the increase in signal strength for WAKA, I was hoping it would be able to pull in WCOV. Just feel like it was a waste of money at this point.

Don't understand what happened with WCOV. A week and a half ago it was coming in okay, now nothing. Oh well, maybe things will improve in 3 weeks. The definitely will when Dish lights up there new bird based on those uplink reports.

Scott Smith

01-22-09, 12:28 AM

Like I said a few pages back. Dish Network receiver and the antenna I mentioned about 20 feet in the air and I get all the stations perfect. Including WCOV.

Off Waresferry Road by Alabama Christian.

JimP

01-22-09, 12:56 AM

rolltide,

I thought I'd go check to see what the signal strength is for 20 and found that its at 56 whereas a few days ago it was in the low 60s. So you're right, WCOV DT has dropped their power.

sarasdad

01-22-09, 05:38 AM

All stations on 8

sarasdad

01-22-09, 05:42 AM

A post a few pages back from me says why and what wcov is doing now

sarasdad

01-22-09, 05:42 AM

A post a few pages back from me says why and what wcov is doing now

4bama

01-22-09, 07:47 AM

[QUOTE=4bama;15616423][QUOTE=JimP;15616298]I see on the listing that its on satellite 129 which is in the western arc. I didn't see anything for an eastern arc satellite. Unless you've added satellite since Sept 1, 2008 you're on western arc. After Sept 1, you could be on either one depending on line of sight.[

Both B'ham and Montgomery get spot beams from 129, so look for you locals in HD as soon as DISH moves the new satellite from current test location at 138 degrees to it's final 129 location.[/QUOTE

Bham hd locals are on 61.5 and 119.

Actually, B'ham locals in SD are now on DISH's 110 sat. and the HD locals are on 119. Since the "New" 129 satellite transmits at much higher power than the current 129 look for all Alabama locals to migrate to 129 once the satellite is moved from 138 to 129 (Most are already uplinked to this new satellite). The current 129 satellite will be moved to a new location.

DISH will probably mirror some locals on the Eastern arc satellites for mobile customers (like RV's) and to cover their bases for marginal spot beam areas.

I am in the B'ham DMA and currently receive the locals on 110 and 119. I have OTA from Montgomery (75' tower with Winegard antenna and CM7777 preamp) and get 90-100% signal levels from all stations in Montgomery except ch 20, which comes and goes with weather propagation (I'm appx 75 miles from the Montgomery transmitters).

Looking forward to the death of analog hoping ch 20's transmitter power is increased enough to reach here with some reliability.

With my DISH 622 receiver and OTA connected to it I can record 3 different football games (or programs) at the same time....really nice during football season.

jpdubose

01-22-09, 08:25 AM

Here's hoping the Montgomery locals uplinked yesterday become real once the new satellite gets into place.

I know the station guys that post here probably can't say anything due to contract negotiations, but if any of you can comment on the HD feeds coming to DISH, it'd be awesome.

tigerfan33

01-22-09, 08:49 AM

[QUOTE=tigerfan33;15617776][QUOTE=4bama;15616423]

Actually, B'ham locals in SD are now on DISH's 110 sat. and the HD locals are on 119. Since the "New" 129 satellite transmits at much higher power than the current 129 look for all Alabama locals to migrate to 129 once the satellite is moved from 138 to 129 (Most are already uplinked to this new satellite). The current 129 satellite will be moved to a new location.

DISH will probably mirror some locals on the Eastern arc satellites for mobile customers (like RV's) and to cover their bases for marginal spot beam areas.

I am in the B'ham DMA and currently receive the locals on 110 and 119. I have OTA from Montgomery (75' tower with Winegard antenna and CM7777 preamp) and get 90-100% signal levels from all stations in Montgomery except ch 20, which comes and goes with weather propagation (I'm appx 75 miles from the Montgomery transmitters).

Looking forward to the death of analog hoping ch 20's transmitter power is increased enough to reach here with some reliability.

With my DISH 622 receiver and OTA connected to it I can record 3 different football games (or programs) at the same time....really nice during football season.

Birmingham will be in the Eastern Arc (61.5) while it looks like Montgomery will be in the Western Arc (129)

6495 WJSU (40) MPEG4 HD 61.5�W 09 8PSK (2/3) Area 9 beam Anniston, AL Available
6496 WIAT (42) MPEG4 HD 61.5�W 09 8PSK (2/3) Area 9 beam Birmingham, AL Available
6497 WVTM (13) MPEG4 HD 61.5�W 09 8PSK (2/3) Area 9 beam Birmingham, AL Available
6498 WBRC (6) MPEG4 HD 61.5�W 09 8PSK (2/3) Area 9 beam Birmingham, AL Available

rolltide1017

01-22-09, 09:22 AM

FYI, we signed on WAKA-DT 42 this morning. The signal on 42 and the signal on 55 are exactly the same, so they both show up as 8-1, 8-2, and 8-3.
Just a question but, are they the same as far as the power that they are transmitting? When I tune to 55 I get a signal strength in the mid 90s but, when I tune to 42 it drops to the mid 70s.

Tim Ward

01-22-09, 09:35 AM

I live near the WNCF tower, and I tried to get WAKA on 42--manual-tuning, re-scanning, deleting 55--but it didn't happen. Just 55. And only about 30%. But I also haven't replaced my rabbit ears yet, either. :) I get everyone, just get some drops on WAKA and WSFA, and occasionally WCOV. Well okay, WBIH 29 went away. I don't know what happened there. I gotta have my infomercials! ;)

BradGCarr

01-22-09, 10:14 AM

WackyEngineer

01-22-09, 10:27 AM

Just a question but, are they the same as far as the power that they are transmitting? When I tune to 55 I get a signal strength in the mid 90s but, when I tune to 42 it drops to the mid 70s.

WAKA DT on channel 42 is operating at approximately 40 kilowatts, compared to 600 kilowatts for WAKA DT on channel 55 (except for most of the day yesterday, when we had one transmitter down and were only at about 300 kilowatts.) Around 40 kilowatts is the highest power we can transmit on 42 without causing interference to the stations in Birmingham and Mobile on 42.

Russ

WackyEngineer

01-22-09, 10:36 AM

Following up on jpdubose's comment regarding the TV station engineers who post on this forum, what does anyone know about DirecTV and Montgomery locals. I mean if DISH is already planning to do this then I'd think DirecTV would as well.

Any info from any DirecTV owners on this forum?

DirecTV called us about 2-3 years ago and sent someone out to do a site survey because they were looking for a place to put their receive site for Montgomery locals. We filled out a bunch of paperwork, sent it back to them, and haven't heard anything since :( Obviously they've decided that it makes more sense from a business standpoint to concentrate on other markets.

Dish Network already has a receive site here, they've been offering the Montgomery locals in standard definition for at least the 4 years I've been in Montgomery, so offering the HD locals is pretty much just a matter of allocating some bandwidth on the satellites and changing out some equipment. Since DirecTV has no local presence here at all, it would be much more involved for them.

Russ

rolltide1017

01-22-09, 02:23 PM

Hey WackyEngineer,

Will 42 go up in power after the transition? Don't mean to beat a dead horse, just trying to get all these numbers people have been throwing out lately straight in my head.

WackyEngineer

01-22-09, 03:29 PM

Hey WackyEngineer,

Will 42 go up in power after the transition? Don't mean to beat a dead horse, just trying to get all these numbers people have been throwing out lately straight in my head.

Yes, we will be increasing the power on 42 after the transition is complete, whenever that is...

This will happen in stages, about a week before the transition, we will reduce power on 55, then the night of the transition, 42 will come up to to around 500 kilowatts, then about a week after the transition, we should be back to 1000 kilowatts.

WackyEngineer

01-22-09, 03:39 PM

We've had an equipment failure on one of the channel 55 transmitters, so the signal on channel 42 will be down for a while so we can keep 55 running at the highest possible power. I'll post here when we bring 42 back up.

Russ

WAKA-DT 8

01-22-09, 04:46 PM

following up on jpdubose's comment regarding the tv station engineers who post on this forum, what does anyone know about directv and montgomery locals. I mean if dish is already planning to do this then i'd think directv would as well.

Any info from any directv owners on this forum?

we last heard from the d boys about 3 years ago. They had us do alot of runaround work and then left us hanging. Just like they did 3 years before that. Since the last date, they haven't made contact.

4bama

01-22-09, 06:16 PM

[QUOTE=4bama;15620387][QUOTE=tigerfan33;15617776]

Birmingham will be in the Eastern Arc (61.5) while it looks like Montgomery will be in the Western Arc (129)

6495 WJSU (40) MPEG4 HD 61.5�W 09 8PSK (2/3) Area 9 beam Anniston, AL Available
6496 WIAT (42) MPEG4 HD 61.5�W 09 8PSK (2/3) Area 9 beam Birmingham, AL Available
6497 WVTM (13) MPEG4 HD 61.5�W 09 8PSK (2/3) Area 9 beam Birmingham, AL Available
6498 WBRC (6) MPEG4 HD 61.5�W 09 8PSK (2/3) Area 9 beam Birmingham, AL Available

As I stated, some will be mirrored on 61.5 but don't expect the current assignments on 119 to be moved to 61.5 but do look for them to be moved to the new 129. Else DISH would have to replace a lot of antennas. Everyone around here has the DISH-1000, which picks up 110, 119 and 129. With the extra power for spot beams on the new 129 bird that makes more sense, of course sensible solutions are not always the end results for a company <g>, so we'll wait and see. If they switch the B'ham HD locals from 119 to any location other than 129 then DISH will incur a lot of expenses.

I do think that "New" installations are evaluated by location to determine whether 61.5 or 119 or 129 is the best choice for new customers.

JimP

01-23-09, 07:05 AM

Yes, we will be increasing the power on 42 after the transition is complete, whenever that is...

This will happen in stages, about a week before the transition, we will reduce power on 55, then the night of the transition, 42 will come up to to around 500 kilowatts, then about a week after the transition, we should be back to 1000 kilowatts.

May I ask you to contact TIVO about your stations' frequency reassignment. I understand that other markets had to do this to get their program guide to reflect correct program information. It takes 5 to 7 days for these request to process. Thanks.

http://www.tivo.com/abouttivo/contactus/phonesupport.html

Trip in VA

01-23-09, 06:53 PM

To the various WAKA people:

The FCC site has been slowly changing stations' statuses to "LICSL" and giving a "status date" that is in the future. Already dated as going silent on 02/17/09, WEIQ and WIAT. So looks like the move to 42 should be able to go on as scheduled.

- Trip

sarasdad

01-24-09, 12:17 PM

rolltide1017

01-24-09, 01:04 PM

Scott Smith

01-24-09, 03:04 PM

So, now that the transition is being delayed

Have you heard that somewhere officially?

4bama

01-24-09, 06:08 PM

Not even a week into the new Obama administration and I already hate what they are doing. So, now that the transition is being delayed (again!, how many times does that make now) to June, will any locals still switch over in Feb.? Are we going to be stuck with low power Fox 'til then now? I don't understand what Obama thinks willchange in 4 months, people are still going to be just as lost as they are now.

Come on Dish, light those locals up!

The bill that's going through the house and senate right now (it hasn't passed yet) leaves the option up to each station--they can switch (and turn off analog) in Feburary, as scheduled, or they can delay until June. The bill further states that there will be no penalty for stations electing to go ahead with the planned switch in Feburary.

Politicians are a crafty bunch, this way if the public complains that they can't get reception after Feburary their congressman or senator can say "hey, it's not our fault, it's the station's fault".

So, with the wording of the bill, the amount of money spent by stations on equipment and the amount of advertising time already spent educating the public that the Feburary date is the end of analog, I believe "most" stations will go ahead with original plans, some areas of the country have already switched.

The one good thing about the bill is it allocates more money for folks to get the $40 coupons for converters up through the June date. So if anyone missed out on their coupons they now have another window.

Crisis_Core

01-26-09, 12:44 AM

Hooray for Dish adding local channels!

brittcrowell

01-26-09, 12:58 AM

So I was just browsing NewEgg tonight knowing my dad is going to purchase a new TV some time in the next 3 months to 3 years.
And I saw that the Panasonic 65" uses a max of 792 watts.
Isn't that about the power of WCOVs digital signal??? :D

Britt

WackyEngineer

01-26-09, 01:11 PM

The bill that's going through the house and senate right now (it hasn't passed yet) leaves the option up to each station--they can switch (and turn off analog) in Feburary, as scheduled, or they can delay until June. The bill further states that there will be no penalty for stations electing to go ahead with the planned switch in Feburary.

Politicians are a crafty bunch, this way if the public complains that they can't get reception after Feburary their congressman or senator can say "hey, it's not our fault, it's the station's fault".

So, with the wording of the bill, the amount of money spent by stations on equipment and the amount of advertising time already spent educating the public that the Feburary date is the end of analog, I believe "most" stations will go ahead with original plans, some areas of the country have already switched.

The one good thing about the bill is it allocates more money for folks to get the $40 coupons for converters up through the June date. So if anyone missed out on their coupons they now have another window.

Unfortunately, an "optional delay" is about the worst possible situation. The DTV transition plan (conceived long long ago) was never intended to be a phased transition. All of the post-transition channel assignments were based on the assumption that all of the current analog assignments would be vacant. We'll have a problem if 42 analog in Birmingham or Mobile stays on, and there's a 43 analog in Louisville...think anyone's done an interference study to see if they would cause interference to or receive interference from a full power DTV signal on 42? Even worse, look at other markets where stations have a post-transition digital assignment on the same channel as an existing analog station...for example, WEDU in Tampa plans to move their DTV signal to channel 13, what happens if WTVT, also in Tampa, decides they want to keep their analog signal on 13 until June? Who decides who gets the frequency?

I'm sure given the option, a lot of stations, especially the ones that already have full power digital facilities, will go ahead and switch to get rid of the power bill associated with the analog transmission. But stations that are operating low power digital facilities now might not be in such a big hurry to bring that high power digital facility online, especially if they are moving from VHF to UHF. And it only takes one station deciding to keep their analog signal on to cause real problems in a market. And let's not forget that for the analog "nightlight" program, the FCC only came up with around 896 stations (out of 1800+) that could leave their analog signals on without interference issues post transition...and now congress wants to give them all the option?

Just so there's no confusion, I personally think the best thing is for the transition to complete as planned and on schedule. Any delay will penalize many stations (and viewers) that have done exactly what the FCC has been telling them to do for the last few years.

Russ

bdfox18doe

01-26-09, 01:22 PM

And I saw that the Panasonic 65" uses a max of 792 watts. Britt

That,BTW, is the heat output of a small electric heater on the "LOW" setting..:)

Trip in VA

01-26-09, 01:22 PM

Tim Ward

01-26-09, 02:37 PM

Russ:

WIAT, WEIQ, and WGIQ, all the stations you mentioned, have filed with the FCC and said they'll be signing off on February 17, regardless of Congressional action. Your move should be doable.

WIAT:
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1290097&Form_id=910&Facility_id=5360

WGIQ:
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1290870&Form_id=910&Facility_id=710

WEIQ:
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1290868&Form_id=910&Facility_id=721

WIIQ:
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1290873&Form_id=910&Facility_id=720

- Trip

I bet those filings won't be set in stone if the bill passes, and they'll have the option to re-file. But like Russ said, if it was me, I'd go ahead with the February switch.

WackyEngineer

01-26-09, 02:46 PM

Russ:

WIAT, WEIQ, and WGIQ, all the stations you mentioned, have filed with the FCC and said they'll be signing off on February 17, regardless of Congressional action. Your move should be doable.

WIAT:
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1290097&Form_id=910&Facility_id=5360

WGIQ:
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1290870&Form_id=910&Facility_id=710

WEIQ:
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1290868&Form_id=910&Facility_id=721

WIIQ:
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/prefill_and_display.pl?Application_id=1290873&Form_id=910&Facility_id=720

- Trip

Yes, I saw your earlier posting about that, I should have re-worded my post. I was just using our situation as an example of the potential problems resulting from the last minute decision to switch from a hard cutover to a phased transition. I still think that of the three options that have been considered so far (transition as planned, delayed transition, delayed transition with option to transition early), the delayed transition is the worst option.

Russ

Trip in VA

01-26-09, 03:45 PM

I bet those filings won't be set in stone if the bill passes, and they'll have the option to re-file. But like Russ said, if it was me, I'd go ahead with the February switch.

The APT ones are as in stone as they're going to get. They say very specifically in the filings that they'll be transitioning regardless of Congressional moves. The APT stations say they don't have money budgeted to keep the analogs going. A lot of PBS stations are saying the same thing.

WIAT says they're filing so they can go off due to "uncertainty" about when the date will be. I'm pretty sure they want to cut off their analog as well, given that big UHF analog they have. If any of them back out, it'd be this one, but given their owner, I wouldn't expect them to.

- Trip

bdfox18doe

01-26-09, 04:31 PM

. A lot of PBS stations are saying the same thing.- Trip

ditto for SCETV

4bama

01-26-09, 05:33 PM

Just so there's no confusion, I personally think the best thing is for the transition to complete as planned and on schedule. Any delay will penalize many stations (and viewers) that have done exactly what the FCC has been telling them to do for the last few years.

Russ[/QUOTE]

But agreeing with you doesn't stop the stupid political battle with those congressmen trying to convince the public it's "in their best interest".

I don't know if the broadcast industry has any powerful lobbiest, but if they do now is the time for them to lobby<g>..

Scott Smith

01-26-09, 10:25 PM

It's a done deal. :eek::mad:

bdfox18doe

01-27-09, 07:31 AM

It's a done deal. :eek::mad:

We are looking at the options, especially with WAKA..(and our other 4 stations) I think most broadcasters are ready to be done with it. IMHO, if you can't deal with the transition, go shutup and read a book.:mad:

JimP

01-27-09, 08:15 AM

So basically Congress passed a bill to extend the deadline but did it so late that it will in all likelyhood have no effect on stations shutting down their analog transmitters?

Intheswamp

01-27-09, 08:27 AM

It's a done deal. :eek::mad:
...what has taken several years of preparation to arrive at is being put on a back-burner in less than a week...not much thought there. A sad fact is that the dtv switchover is a minor issue for our country (though major for the broadcasters)...the government in the auto manufacturing business, getting into the (nationalizing) banking business, etc., etc., ah well...get ready, hello socialism.:mad:

Tim Ward

01-27-09, 09:17 AM

I guess WCOV is happy. :D

So, where are the *new* PSAs? :D :D :D

Socialism? Nah, the government's just gonna *temporarily* control everything "for our own good." ;)

Intheswamp

01-27-09, 12:58 PM

I guess WCOV is happy. :D

So, where are the *new* PSAs? :D :D :D

Socialism? Nah, the government's just gonna *temporarily* control everything "for our own good." ;)

So, does this mean that Obama gets to wear Wood's football jacket?

Scott Smith

01-27-09, 04:25 PM

Heard from the Dish regional rep that Montgomery Locals are a done deal and will light up in about a month. I guess I can "Move" back to Montgomery now. :D:D

jpdubose

01-27-09, 04:32 PM

Heard from the Dish regional rep that Montgomery Locals are a done deal and will light up in about a month. I guess I can "Move" back to Montgomery now. :D:D

Great news if it pans out. With DISH though, I'll believe it when I see it in my guide.

sarasdad

01-28-09, 09:21 AM

Tim Ward

01-28-09, 11:08 AM

Question:
All my hd ota signals are good. WSFA is the strongest but during primetime shows I notice tiling or very small squares when ever there is a sudden change or movement in the picture. I do not notice this on any other station. Is this a network or local problem. I am watching on a 65 inch DLP Mitsuibishi.
Thank you,
Charles :confused:
P.S. this also seen on Brighthouse channel!

That'd be a WSFA problem. They just don't get it (neither does APT).

Russ (WackyEngineer) posted this a while back:

OK, I took a few minutes this morning to look at the bitrates on WSFA... There's no variation in them, I don't remember what they were before, but now they appear to be fixed at (approximately):

WSFA-DT: ~11.7 mbps
WxPlus: ~2.4 mbps
RTN: ~3.6 mbps

For comparison:

WAKA-DT: 16 mpbs
WAKA-WX: 1.8 mbps

WCOV-DT: ~13 mbps
WCOV-WX: ~2.25 mpbs

I can't pick up WNCF right now, but I think they are 15-16 mbps.

Russ

Now, that's not exactly apples-to-apples since WSFA & WAKA are 1080i while WCOV & WNCF are 720p...meaning, 720p needs 88.89% of the bandwidth of 1080i to look as good compression-wise (if that makes sense), putting WCOV at around 14.5 Mb/s (for comparison only) against WAKA & WSFA. AND, if you go further, you'll see that WSFA compresses their RTN channel at a higher quality/bit rate (comparitively-speaking) than they do for their HD channel. What?!

**Also, the type of encoder and settings makes a difference in quality, and can go as far as to make or break the picture quality.

sarasdad

01-28-09, 11:36 AM

Thanks for the information. That explains why my 24 and all my fox favorites look so much better than my wsfa shows. I was watching Law and Order on Universal HD and it is beautiful but on wsfa it's just ok.
Thanks again

sarasdad

01-28-09, 11:41 AM

sarasdad

01-28-09, 11:46 AM

WackyEngineer

01-28-09, 12:43 PM

Update on WAKA SOUND ISSUE.
I have noticed a few DD 5.1 sound drops during prime time shows. Not as many as the problems before. Just wanted to keep you informed.Great picture. Keep up the great work and info you provide!

CBS will be making a change to their HD audio distribution next week, hopefully it will take care of some of these issues. I'll try to post here once the changes take effect.

Thanks,
Russ

sarasdad

01-28-09, 01:07 PM

No problem, it's nothing like before. Thanks again for updates.

Tim Ward

01-28-09, 01:08 PM

There is an article in todays paper APT is dropping analog signal in Feb due to cost of continuing analog feed. My question when are they going to start there HD feed full time? I don't know how many times I have wanted to watch something in HD and it is not or the picture is stretched or messed up and sound is screwed up!

APT is...well...odd? They used to run HD 24/7...mainly PBS HD (which was REALLY cool), with an occasional local HD show. Then they decided to get rid of PBS HD and do what they're doing now, which if someone could tell me what that is, I'd like to know. They also picked up the syndicated Create channel, and created the APT IQ channel. Personally, I think they should get rid of one of those channels, as well as their redundant SD x.2 channel to save on bandwidth (and with all the financial troubles they're having).

Trip in VA

01-28-09, 01:12 PM

APT stopped airing PBS-HD because PBS-HD went away. The feed ended on 12/21/2008.

- Trip

Tim Ward

01-28-09, 01:58 PM

APT stopped airing PBS-HD because PBS-HD went away. The feed ended on 12/21/2008.

- Trip

APT switched from it because it became too expensive to subscribe to, and cut it off June 30, 2007. But now it seems that they aren't switching to the HD versions of HD programs, and are just airing some in SD.

sarasdad

01-28-09, 01:58 PM

Is PBS HD on dish and direct tv?

bdfox18doe

01-28-09, 02:10 PM

Now, that's not exactly apples-to-apples since WSFA & WAKA are 1080i !

Plus,WAKA is using the latest generation high-efficiency encoders.

Tim Ward

01-28-09, 02:16 PM

Yeah, forgot to mention about the "Encoder Difference"! I added that to the post.

jtrippe

01-28-09, 03:40 PM

Is PBS HD on dish and direct tv?

A select few markets have it on Directv and maybe even Dish. Directv has been rolling out more and more markets for PBS HD lately. However, neither have a national PBS SD or HD feed. When Montogmery lights up on Dish it won't have PBS(APT) HD.

sarasdad

01-28-09, 03:45 PM

thanks everyone for the information

4bama

01-28-09, 05:26 PM

APT stopped airing PBS-HD because PBS-HD went away. The feed ended on 12/21/2008.

- Trip

I stayed in phone contact with the APT programming director for a long time.

They had (have) several issues. First, they don't have the ability to record a PBS HD program and reair it on APT in a different time slot. That limits their HD from PBS to "live" feeds.

Second, they did sever ties with PBS for the fulltime feed because of how much money PBS was asking for that capability.

Third, they did contract with PBS to carry "some" of their HD programming. That's why "The News Hour" and shows like "Frontline" are in HD on APT. I watched both last night and they were in HD.

Trip in VA

01-28-09, 05:29 PM

APT switched from it because it became too expensive to subscribe to, and cut it off June 30, 2007. But now it seems that they aren't switching to the HD versions of HD programs, and are just airing some in SD.

Ah, okay. Didn't know that, had been told it was PBS-HD a few months back.

But either way, the national PBS-HD feed did end. There's now a national PBS schedule available in HD, but has lots of SD-upconverted programs.

- Trip

sarasdad

01-28-09, 06:15 PM

Updated: Jan 28, 2009 03:04 PM CST
WASHINGTON (AP) - The United States House of Representatives defeated a bill that would have delayed the analog TV shutdown. "The Big Switch" will occur as had been previously planned on February 17,
This is headline wsfa web page

Tim Ward

01-28-09, 06:46 PM

They had (have) several issues. First, they don't have the ability to record a PBS HD program and reair it on APT in a different time slot. That limits their HD from PBS to "live" feeds.

Did he say what they were using their HDCAM decks for? I'd assume they would use them for tape-delay, in addition to playing local programs produced in HD. I guess they may not have wanted to use tape, since they use a server for program scheduling and playout.

I did find this quote interesting, given that APT's HD sub-channel is at a lower bit rate:

"Obviously standard MPEG-2 compression wasn't the answer," said Windell Wood, APT director of engineering. "That typically requires upwards of 15 Mbps for quality HD transmissions."

I'll be visiting with one of their engineers soon, so maybe I'll be able to get the "skinny" on some of APT's workings.

Scott Smith

01-28-09, 07:51 PM

JimP

01-28-09, 11:28 PM

....or more pork that needs to be greased.

blp

01-29-09, 04:50 AM

Emailed Knology about HD channels and here is the replay:

Barry,

Thanks for taking the time to write.

The decision to split the Golf / Verses HD networks was theirs.

The good news bad news story is that we still carry those networks on Channels: 32 and 165 so, they have not disappeared.

However, they wanted an exorbitant amount of money for their HD signal in addition to carrying some less popular networks they own.

We do have plans to add 15 – 20 additional HD Channels within the next 3 months so stay tuned!

Thanks again,

RC

4bama

01-29-09, 06:54 AM

Did he say what they were using their HDCAM decks for? I'd assume they would use them for tape-delay, in addition to playing local programs produced in HD. I guess they may not have wanted to use tape, since they use a server for program scheduling and playout.

I did find this quote interesting, given that APT's HD sub-channel is at a lower bit rate:

"Obviously standard MPEG-2 compression wasn't the answer," said Windell Wood, APT director of engineering. "That typically requires upwards of 15 Mbps for quality HD transmissions."

I'll be visiting with one of their engineers soon, so maybe I'll be able to get the "skinny" on some of APT's workings.

Tim, they may have the equipment to record/playback HD by now, it's been about 3 months since I last talked with APT.

musikman29

01-29-09, 09:25 AM

Hi guys, I discovered your web site after doing a search on locals provided by Dish. Some of you seem to be quite knowledgable of spotbeams and such so I am asking advice. Due to frustration with not getting all of my locals in Dothan, I "moved" last night to Montgomery. Well, after the "move", my new Montgomery locals are not showing up. Come to find out, it seems as I am outside the spotbeam for SD Montgomery locals. So now I either have to "move" again, or wait to see if I will be in the spotbeam for the HD Montgomery locals when Dish lights up the new sat. My question is, does anyone know if I will be in the HD spotbeam? If so, I can wait until they go live. If not, I need to move again, maybe to Panama City, Fla. My zip is 36301. Thanks for your help!

Tim Ward

01-29-09, 09:38 AM

Tim, they may have the equipment to record/playback HD by now, it's been about 3 months since I last talked with APT.

In one of my earliest conversations with the guys at Discovering Alabama, they said they were having to carry their HD shows to WBIQ to master them to HDCAM, which was about 3 years ago. But regardless, APT obviously has their reasons for the way they do things. It would be cool to see more HD on there! They have some really neat shows on PBS.

Everything's going to the Internets anyway, so TV will be moot! ;) :D

Scott Smith

01-29-09, 10:56 AM

musikman29

01-29-09, 01:20 PM

nahh the map doesn't help much. Thanks for linking it, but I can't really make heads or tails of it. I just need to know if I'm in the "zone" to receive Montgomery stations.

wirving

01-29-09, 02:05 PM

nahh the map doesn't help much. Thanks for linking it, but I can't really make heads or tails of it. I just need to know if I'm in the "zone" to receive Montgomery stations.

I think the answer to your Montgomery HD locals spotbeam footprint question is "have to wait and see". According to the uplink reports on satelliteguys (I see you've already poked around some over there), the Montgomery HD locals are on the new 129 W satellite (Ciel-2), but the spotbeam assignment isn't listed. So I don't think we know yet. Having said that, this thread has maps for some of the Ciel-2 footprints:

http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-network-forum/150304-ciel-129w-footprints.html

Post number 16 in that thread has some relevant spot beam maps; I'm guessing Montgomery's HD locals will be in that spot beam shown in the 3rd map. If so, you might be okay.

There are other pages at the dishuser.org site that list the spot beams and satellites for currently available channels, etc. If you combine that info with the spot beam maps for the older satellites (the one linked to a couple of posts back), you can eventually make sense of it.

You might be better off with the Mobile locals; you'd definitely get the SDs. The HDs are currently on 61.5 W, but it looks like they must be moving to Ciel-2 also - they were recently uplinked there. I live between Montgomery and Columbus, GA, and I "moved" to Mobile a couple of years ago. I get their SD locals, but not the HD - not in the spot beam; I'm hoping to be able to pull in the HDs on Ciel-2. If not, I might consider "moving" to Montgomery, but I just prefer the Mobiles.

As for the frequency of "moving", I know a guy who did it twice in about 3 days without problems. Other people like to wait a few weeks; personally, I don't think Dish really cares.

Hope this helps,
WIrving

musikman29

01-29-09, 02:27 PM

Great response, exactly what I was looking for~thanks a lot, at this point I'll wait and see what happens with Ciel2.

Scott Smith

01-29-09, 06:55 PM

Just move to a market that's not on Spots.

Tim Ward

01-30-09, 01:33 PM

Here's a question. Why are EVERYONE'S clocks on Eastern Time, with some as much as about 20 minutes off (WCOV)? Or is it just me?

JimP

01-30-09, 01:50 PM

Isn't WKAB running an antenna seminar on Monday over on Harrison Rd?

Tim Ward

01-30-09, 02:21 PM

Isn't WKAB running an antenna seminar on Monday over on Harrison Rd?

You have any more info on that? Of course you meant to say "WNCF," right? ;) :D

WackyEngineer

01-30-09, 02:23 PM

Here's a question. Why are EVERYONE'S clocks on Eastern Time, with some as much as about 20 minutes off (WCOV)? Or is it just me?

I've seen different sets show different times (off by 1 hr) on the same stream here, so it seems that some sets don't apply the correct offset to the STT. You may have to lie about the timzone to get your displayed time correct. If the clock is off by less than an hour, it probably just means the time is wrong on the PSIP generator...

Russ

Tim Ward

01-30-09, 03:23 PM

Oh, I forgot to mention that the hours were right before the time change. I'll have to look in the menus again to see what's what. It's great when the EPG shows the wrong stuff! :D

WackyEngineer

01-30-09, 03:27 PM

Oh, I forgot to mention that the hours were right before the time change. I'll have to look in the menus again to see what's what. It's great when the EPG shows the wrong stuff! :D

I think that's when the set we have here messed up. Although on our set, the guide times agreed with the clock on the set...so at 3:00, the set would say it was 4:00, and it would say Dr Phil runs from 4:00-5:00.

Russ

brittcrowell

01-30-09, 03:55 PM

I noticed that the times for RTN were messed up and off by an hour according to the Directv listings too. But in the last week they got right.

JimP

01-30-09, 07:54 PM

You have any more info on that? Of course you meant to say "WNCF," right? ;) :D

Its whichever one that's on Harrison Road in Montgomery.

Can't find anything on the internet. Might have to phone them to get more information.

Their promo on TV showed some guy adjusting an outdoor antenna.

sarasdad

01-31-09, 06:47 AM

thats abc WNCF tv 32 http://www.wncftv.com/

Grand Audio

01-31-09, 08:26 PM

For anyone interested, WSFA will be performing a test starting at 2am until 3am tomorrow. They will be shutting off the channel 14 digital and channel 12 analog signals and going full power on 12 digital.

I have been asked to check the signal strength before and after down here in Ozark. Then report back to them the results from here.

sarasdad

02-01-09, 07:21 AM

Great time to test! Super bowl.

buckeye1

02-01-09, 10:36 AM

Anyone else with Directv. I have 2 hr20s that get 0 signal on WSFA. My hr10-250 sees it at 80 and plugging the antenna direct to the tv works.

Any ideas appreciated

Scott Smith

02-01-09, 11:10 AM

I have an HR21 with the piggyback dual tuner. 89% on tuner one and 88% on tuner 2 on WSFADT 12-1

buckeye1

02-01-09, 11:44 AM

I'm baffled. I can get WSFA in each room through the tv but I get no signal on both tuners for both hr20s. Guess I need to rewire the main tv setup prior to tonight.

I don't know how long this has been a problem since I normally don't watch live network tv. Normally watch recorded off a MythTV box. That box is currently running a development version of MythTV that doesn't allow live tv from my tuner.

Oh well.

JimP

02-01-09, 12:53 PM

buckeye1

On your hr20s, are you using them to tune the locals or are you actually getting a satellite feed of the locals? If you're using the hr20s to tune the stations with an OTA antenna, you might have to do some sort of channel scan.

Intheswamp

02-01-09, 12:57 PM

This is more a question for folks local to Montgomery. I got to thinking about WCOV and WNCF this morning and realized my focus has been waiting to receive the primary FOX and ABC network programming but then I got to wondering about subchannels. I see that WNCF also operates WBMM/CW but do these two stations along with WCOV have any subchannels? If they do, what are they?

Thanks,
Ed

buckeye1

02-01-09, 01:20 PM

JimP - I am getting the locals OTA. There is no option to scan on the HR20s. The channel maps are sent from the satellite. I have resetup and hard rebooted to no avail. I was hoping someone else may have the same equipment to see if it was just me or if there had been a recent update to the receivers. I wonder if the HR20 has more issues with multipath than any of my other options.

InTheSwamp - FOX has a subchannel for weather. WNCF does not have any subchannels.

Scott Smith

02-01-09, 01:28 PM

WCOV has one Sub channel Accuweather TV.

I don't see a WBMM

I did find WBIH though
http://www.stationindex.com/tv/callsign/WBIH

Looks like WBMM is Affiliated with WAKA since they use their news staff.

http://www.cwmontgomery.com/

http://www.cwmontgomery.com/docs/Quarterly_DTV_Report.pdf

buckeye1

02-01-09, 01:40 PM

Looks like my issue was some sort of multipath problem. Moved the antenna a little and now have WSFA back. I lost WAKA, but, I can worry about that after today. What's funny is that I haven't touched my antenna in months.

Grand Audio

02-01-09, 02:08 PM

I monitored the test this morning that WSFA asked me to. There was no change whatsoever at my location. Started at 1:30am..autoscanned at 2:05, like they asked...signal stayed the same until after 3:00am. 20% to 25% with a peak of 30%.

What ever they did it had no effect at my location in Ozark. Waiting for a reply to see what they say about it.

JimP

02-01-09, 02:13 PM

Are they transmitting from the same location? Did they direct you to reaim your antenna?

Tim Ward

02-01-09, 04:34 PM

I see that WNCF also operates WBMM/CW but do these two stations along with WCOV have any subchannels? If they do, what are they?

WBMM is run by WNCF, who contracts with WAKA for news. I understand WBMM was up a year or two ago with a digital signal for a while, but ran into technical problems and had to take it down. Hopefully it'll be up in a couple of weeks...I only watch it for one or two shows, but it'd still be nice.

Grand Audio

02-01-09, 05:10 PM

Are they transmitting from the same location? Did they direct you to reaim your antenna?

I was told they would be shutting down digital 14 and analog 12...then going to full digital power on 12.1.

I got a reply a few minutes ago. The test was canceled due to some kind of electrical problem in the studio. Probably why I saw no change in signal!

I got real depressed when there was no change. Now I know it was because there wasn't any!

brittcrowell

02-01-09, 06:17 PM

I've got the H20 (no recorder) and I can get all of the major networks OTA with the built in tuner. I'm up north of Wetumpka (Dexter/Santuck).
TVFool reports that:
WAKA is at 230 degrees 49.5 miles
WSFA is at 183 degrees 45.6 miles
I've got my CM 4228 pointed at about 205 degrees on about a 35-40ft tower and I get 8,12,20,26,32 digitals.
The rotator doesn't work, it was just an easy mount point.
Any questions?
http://www.brittcrowell.com/2009/Antenna1.JPG
http://www.brittcrowell.com/2009/Antenna2.JPG

Scott Smith

02-01-09, 08:29 PM

Is that a different rotator than the one you and I discussed?

Scott Smith

02-01-09, 10:03 PM

WSFA HD during the Super bowl.

Awful. :eek:

Good thing I had an alternative. Night and day difference.

brittcrowell

02-01-09, 10:05 PM

Is that a different rotator than the one you and I discussed?
It is different Scott.
My cousin needed one. He only has OTA.
He lives up Marbury way.
The one you sold me works great!
Thanks for the great deal!

Britt

brittcrowell

02-01-09, 10:10 PM

Man the confetti is really f'ing up the HD feed on 12!

mkc7908

02-01-09, 10:57 PM

WSFA HD during the Super bowl.

Awful. :eek:

Good thing I had an alternative. Night and day difference.

It really spoiled the game for me. Not only was there excessive artifacts, but the cameras seemed to continually lose focus. My wife kept complaining (like I could do anything).

Any idea if it was the national feed or just WSFA?

Scott Smith

02-01-09, 11:40 PM

It was WSFA and their choked down bitstream. I switched over to WXIA from Atlanta and the picture was pristine.

JimP

02-02-09, 12:04 AM

Scott,

How did you do that?

Scott Smith

02-02-09, 06:44 AM

Scott,

How did you do that?

My Directv Receiver is on My Atlanta Address. It has Montgomery OTA and Atlanta Sat Locals.

Grand Audio

02-02-09, 10:50 AM

Aren't you clever!

Scott Smith

02-02-09, 11:03 AM

Well, you gotta do what you gotta do when your local market can't provide an acceptable product.

Grandpa Train

02-02-09, 12:50 PM

My Directv Receiver is on My Atlanta Address. It has Montgomery OTA and Atlanta Sat Locals.

I thought that was illegal?. Giving wrong home address.

bdfox18doe

02-02-09, 12:52 PM

I thought that was illegal?. Giving wrong home address.

it is..:)

Grandpa Train

02-02-09, 01:03 PM

it is..:)

Then why tell us about it. keep to legal stuff.

bdfox18doe

02-02-09, 01:06 PM

I have several markets at home too for monitoring purposes. Legally too.
But I don't openly discuss that here.

JimP

02-02-09, 01:29 PM

I thought that was illegal?. Giving wrong home address.

So is restraint of trade but that doesn't seem to be bothering anyone.

sarasdad

02-02-09, 03:47 PM

Bite me Grandpa, you are illegal!

bdfox18doe

02-02-09, 04:17 PM

Ya'll play nice now.. don't want anyone to get a bad impression of Fungomery! :)

blp

02-02-09, 04:46 PM

So what happens if you need a service call?

sarasdad

02-02-09, 05:59 PM

I was being nice,ok I'm sorry! I had a bad day

Scott Smith

02-02-09, 06:19 PM

I have a residence in Atlanta and carry the box back and forth. How is that illegal? And who are the DMA police?

Scott Smith

02-02-09, 06:21 PM

So what happens if you need a service call?

Doubt I'll bee needing one since I forgot more than the techs that come out would know. :cool:

bdfox18doe

02-02-09, 06:27 PM

I have a residence in Atlanta and carry the box back and forth. ?

Uh-huh. Sure.;) Betcha have a custom padded road case with quick disconnects too, right?:D
Hope it boots quicker than my 6000.

JimP

02-02-09, 06:38 PM

Wonder if the antenna demo got postphoned due to rain?

jtrippe

02-02-09, 09:25 PM

brittcrowell

02-02-09, 10:18 PM

Scott Smith

02-02-09, 10:30 PM

Uh-huh. Sure.;) Betcha have a custom padded road case with quick disconnects too, right?:D
Hope it boots quicker than my 6000.

Savanna Apartments right across the street from Perimeter Mall.
My wife is there right now watching my HR21.............

Via Slingbox. :D

Grand Audio

02-02-09, 11:54 PM

A buddy of mine that lives in the Greer community above Wetumpka told me tonight that he got a FREE digital antenna that was suppose to be good for 60 miles from some outfit over at channel 32 today. It was announced on WLWI that the first 100 people to show up would get one. He couldn't tell me what it was or the model number cause he left it in Montgomery where he worked. I'll find out tomorrow.

Anyone else get a free antenna?

JimP

02-02-09, 11:57 PM

Sounds like they didn't postphone the demo due to rain. :)

Grand Audio

02-03-09, 12:01 AM

I'm curious to find out kind of antenna it is.

He also found out while he was there, that WCOV has got a new tower 28 miles south of Montgomery that they will start using on the 17th. Suppose to be more power than WSFA. This was the first I heard about this.

Trip in VA

02-03-09, 12:11 AM

As far as I know, it IS the WSFA tower, and it will have less power than WSFA does now I think.

- Trip

Grand Audio

02-03-09, 12:16 AM

It could be. This is what they told my friend that went to get his free antenna. Said it was a brand new tower in Covington county. My friend has real bad reception with WCOV.

rolltide1017

02-03-09, 12:27 AM

Those of you who have Dish or are interested in Dish may want to check out Satelliteguys.us. CI HD was added yesterday. Fox News HD and Fox Business News HD are uplinked and will be available Wenedesday. A ton more HD is coming this week and month. The new Satellite is active tomorrow. It's a great time to be a Dish customer. Montgomery HD locals are coming soon too!
That's fine and all but, the CI HD channel has been a waste of space so far and I could care less about news channels in HD. Plus, they removed the Smithsonian Channel which really pisses me off.

When will Dish add these HD channels; Nick (my daughter misses her Wonderpets and Backyardigans since we are TurboHD subs and don't get the SD version), Spike, Speed, ESPN U, AMC, MLB Network and Comedy Central just to name a few.

I really am upset about the removal of the Smithsonian Channel. Can't wait to get our locals in HD as OTA has not been reliable for me.

Grandpa Train

02-03-09, 06:24 AM

So is restraint of trade but that doesn't seem to be bothering anyone.

It bothers the hell out of me. I have said for a long time I would get ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX from somewhere else if it were legal. For example New York would be my choice, but it is illegal to to give home address in New York if you reside in Montgomery.

Grand Audio

02-03-09, 07:16 AM

I have a residence in Atlanta and carry the box back and forth. How is that illegal? And who are the DMA police?

I don't see how it would be illegal if he actually has an Atlanta residence and carries the receiver to Montgomery.

Just my opinion.

JimP

02-03-09, 07:31 AM

It bothers the hell out of me. I have said for a long time I would get ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX from somewhere else if it were legal. For example New York would be my choice, but it is illegal to to give home address in New York if you reside in Montgomery.

Since restrait of trade is illegal, is a law that enforces restrait of trade also illegal?

That's retorical as it is illegal although shouldn't be.

rolltide1017

02-03-09, 09:04 AM

It bothers the hell out of me. I have said for a long time I would get ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX from somewhere else if it were legal. For example New York would be my choice, but it is illegal to to give home address in New York if you reside in Montgomery.

First, we are not in the NY spot beam down here so I doubt you could get the NY locals even if you wanted too.

Second, and I'm not saying I agree with the practice but, I'm surprised that you have never read about this until now. This "moving" practice has been going on for years and it is not the first time it has been mentioned in this forum or other place on AVS.

I don't agree 100% with the "moving" trick but I now that many people on AVS have done it and it is almost common practice over dbstalk.com. My point being, illegal or not, you can't possibly believe that Dish Network it getting fooled by 1000s and 1000s of people. Dish is fully aware of what they are doing and, to this point, don't seem to care.

I don't blame people for doing it that live in a market that Dish dosen't provide there locals in HD. I've considered doing it because OTA has been such a headache for me but, thankfully, Dish is adding our locals very soon now. If I had done it, I was going to move to B'Ham and use my sisters address.

I just don't think we should attack the guy just because he is doing something we don't agree with.

jtrippe

02-03-09, 09:07 AM

That's fine and all but, the CI HD channel has been a waste of space so far and I could care less about news channels in HD. Plus, they removed the Smithsonian Channel which really pisses me off.

When will Dish add these HD channels; Nick (my daughter misses her Wonderpets and Backyardigans since we are TurboHD subs and don't get the SD version), Spike, Speed, ESPN U, AMC, MLB Network and Comedy Central just to name a few.

I really am upset about the removal of the Smithsonian Channel. Can't wait to get our locals in HD as OTA has not been reliable for me.

I am upset about Smithsonian too. I called and voiced my concern and they gave me $5 off for 5 months.

Fox News HD is now live on channel 205! Fox Business News HD will go live this week and the others this week and month.

rolltide1017

02-03-09, 09:13 AM

I am upset about Smithsonian too. I called and voiced my concern and they gave me $5 off for 5 months.

Fox News HD is now live on channel 205! Fox Business News HD will go live this week and the others this week and month.
So you called. Hmm, I e-mailed my concern but didn't get a response so maybe I'll call. Of course my e-mail was kind mean because they decided to remove an HD channel at the same time they raise the price of my Turbo HD Gold package by $10. Stupid timing on the part of Dish IMO (but I guess it kinda evens out now that they've add 3 new HD channels). Just sucks because I will miss the Smith. channel and will hardly ever watch either Fox News channel or CI HD.

JimP

02-03-09, 09:20 AM

jtrippe

02-03-09, 12:02 PM

jtrippe,

I just tried 205 and it seems that I would have to upgrade my plan to get it. Anybody surprised. lol

I'll give them a call about Smithsonian channel. Hate to see them get rid of a good channel. Wonder what Direct TV is doing about the Smithsonian channel.

Jim:

According to Satelliteguys, Fox News HD is not available to Turbo Silver or Gold HD only yet but will be this week. It is live on AT200 and higher. Dish made a mistake and made it available too soon. A direct number for dish is 1-888-387-6371. Also, the rumor is that Smithsonian will come back soon.

baker60

02-03-09, 02:53 PM

It could be. This is what they told my friend that went to get his free antenna. Said it was a brand new tower in Covington county. My friend has real bad reception with WCOV.

WSFA's tower is in Crenshaw County, and I believe Covington County is more than 28 miles from Montgomery.

Intheswamp

02-03-09, 03:04 PM

WSFA's tower is in Crenshaw County, and I believe Covington County is more than 28 miles from Montgomery.

Going from memory but isn't WCOV's and WSFA's beams basically putting Grand Audio on the backside of the beam?

Ed

WackyEngineer

02-03-09, 04:19 PM

Going from memory but isn't WCOV's and WSFA's beams basically putting Grand Audio on the backside of the beam?

Ed

WSFA's current digital (channel 14) is on a directional antenna pointing mostly north. Their post transition plan is to use their current analog antenna, which is non-directional.

WCOV is planning to use their analog antenna for their post-transition digital, and I believe that antenna is also directional to the north.

Russ

JimP

02-03-09, 04:27 PM

So those of us up in Wetumpka might have actually lucked out for once. lol

Grand Audio

02-03-09, 06:03 PM

Going from memory but isn't WCOV's and WSFA's beams basically putting Grand Audio on the backside of the beam?

Ed

What ticks me off is I can't get WSFA with Dish Networks in Ozark. Because this is not their local market. BUT, cable carries WSFA. That's just not fair! Those of us on Dish have to either get NBC out of Montgomery or Panama City.

I remember back in the 60's we picked up WSFA here with rabbit ears. Channels 12...4...9 were all we could get.

By the way the free antenna was a Clearstream C4 that my friend got at WNCF yesterday.

Scott Smith

02-03-09, 06:30 PM

Dish is a little more stringent than Direct.

I would say 70% of Direct's customers are in the wrong market. I know several homes around here that were sold by Bellsouth in a DSL package. When the customer realized they didn't have locals they pitched a fit and Direct instantly turned on Nationals. All while Dish was being sued for it.

jns82

02-03-09, 08:29 PM

I am located just south of Auburn (I see alot of Tide user names, I come in peace), in a relatively low part of the landscape. I currently have a rooftop mounted directional old-style conventional antenna (I’ve been told that my current antenna is a small-mid range antenna, not a deep fringe) on a rotor with a mast mounted preamp. The antenna feeds two tv’s; I have a splitter after the preamp. I have worked to ensure no other splitters or coupling in the cables.

I have attached my pre and post-transition TV Fool report. There are three channels (networks) we are interested in receiving OTA; channel 15 (WRBL-41 miles, 115 deg) and channel 9 (WTVM-41 miles, 115 deg) from Columbus, GA, and channel 12 (WSFA-58 miles, 227 deg). Through mast rotation, I receive WRBL (88% digital tuner strength) and WTVM (35%, sporadic signal) digitally, but not WSFA (15 to 20%). WSFA is located at 227 deg, WRBL and WTVM are at 115 deg. Thus, the stations with problems are WSFA (pre 14, post 12) and WTVM (47,9). Post-transition, I will need VHF (WTVM and WSFA) and UHF (WRBL). WSFA is our biggest concern- got to have Alabama news (as opposed to GA).

On another AVS forum, I’ve been told no omnidirectional will work with signals this low, and I’ve been advised to go with a 91XG (for UHF) mounted 4ft over a YA-1713 (for VHF), with a CM7777 preamp. Does this seem logical to ya’ll? I’ve been able to glean from this board that when the switch is made, WSFA will be going to either more power and/or omnidirectional; both of which should help my situation, true? Any input greatly appreciated.

Tim Ward

02-03-09, 09:29 PM

It was WSFA and their choked down bitstream. I switched over to WXIA from Atlanta and the picture was pristine.

How many sub-channels does WXIA have?

Intheswamp

02-03-09, 11:46 PM

Thus, the stations with problems are WSFA (pre 14, post 12) and WTVM (47,9). Post-transition, I will need VHF (WTVM and WSFA) and UHF (WRBL). WSFA is our biggest concern- got to have Alabama news (as opposed to GA).

On another AVS forum, I’ve been told no omnidirectional will work with signals this low, and I’ve been advised to go with a 91XG (for UHF) mounted 4ft over a YA-1713 (for VHF), with a CM7777 preamp. Does this seem logical to ya’ll? I’ve been able to glean from this board that when the switch is made, WSFA will be going to either more power and/or omnidirectional; both of which should help my situation, true? Any input greatly appreciated.

Howdy jns82. I haven't had experience with the two antennas but they've probably been suggested by folks with more knowledge than I have. I've heard folks speak well of the 91XG but I can only tell you my experience.

Currently I'm using a Channel Master CM4228, rotor, a CM7777 preamp connected with probably a little less than 100' of RG6 quad coax. It's a homerun from the pre-amp to the tv...no splits. The antenna is up only about 18' but I live on a hill. I consistently receive WTVY in Dothan from 67 miles away with this setup...but remember that I'm on a hill. If you have the room and capability to move your antenna around a bit...up/down and in different spots in relation to the ground you just might find a better reception spot for it. You could actually use a set of rabbit ears on a bamboo pole to "probe" around for a sweet spot. Attached is my tvfool results. The CM4228 is the older version before they added the "HD" designation and changed it somewhat.

The CM4228 is an 8-bay bowtie, UHF, deep-fringe antenna but also has a reputation for reaching down into the upper VHF range. The only VHF station that I've had experience with is WDIQ/channel #11 which is a fairly low-powered pbs station about 12.5 miles south of me...I can usually pull it in off the backside of the CM4228. It will be interesting to see how the CM4228 performs when WDIQ drops on down to channel #10 and WSFA drops down to channel #12 after the transition.

Interesting, but it looks like you'll be receiving WCOV-DT better than you will WSFA-DT after the transition. WCOV will give you Alabama news from Montgomery...and I believe by the same folks that are at WSFA.

You're definitely in a depression of some sort, but still have a good chance of bringing in all the networks. Multi-path might be a problem with your predominate 2-edge designations and the directional 91XG might be what you need. BTW, did you use lat/long coordinates or street address? Lat/long seems to work better.

Best wishes,
Ed

jbrazjr1

02-04-09, 02:23 AM

Please help. My father loves NASCAR but can not get FOX HD where he lives in Holiday Shores (Titus side). He currently has Brighthouse cable which has no Fox HD. Several months back I tried getting him Directv with locals but since he is actually just barely in Elmore County instead of Coosa, they would not let him qualify. I have DTV but get this in like 4 trips they couldn't complete installation an installation with OTA for locals. I'm not kidding.I would LOVE for him to have Fox HD for the Daytona race.

After adding a second OTA antenna (shaped like a flying saucer) on his roof and then couldn't make it work,they told me an indoor Terk that I had brought up was better than what was on the roof. The tech (4th trip promise) couldn't get any kind of picture. It was a Wednesday and I had the tech come while my Dad was at church. He couldn't get a picture. With my Dad having been ill with cancer and having experienced 3 previous installation attempts ending in frustration, I let the tech go and said we were finished with DTV. My Dad was really frustrated upon his return. We went out where the OTA was connected and I pulled on the coax cable leading from the OTA on the roof and asked my Dad to tell me which of the cables it was that went under the house and connected on the side of the house (with other coax connections). Get this...I pulled the cable and it was connected to NOTHING !! just laying under the house.Over an hour and a half and the tech can't figure out why no picture and ultimately says it's no good. Suggestions ? I would really like for him to be able to watch his races in HD. Thanks.

JimP

02-04-09, 04:34 AM

Brighthouse has supposably already come to an agreement with WCOV-DT (Fox) to carry HD.

Seems that they're waiting for Fox to increase power before they can retransmit it. That should come with the analog cutoff in a couple of weeks.

....and if that doesn't work for you, Dish Network (the satellite company) will be adding HD locals to their western arc satellites. Having a clear line of sight to those satellites would be important. The uplink activity report from Dish doesn't show that the eastern arc satellites will carry the signal so be careful about your installation if you go this route.

Grand Audio

02-04-09, 05:48 AM

The CM4228 is an 8-bay bowtie, UHF, deep-fringe antenna but also has a reputation for reaching down into the upper VHF range.

I wish I could could get an old type 4228. Been looking but all I have found is the new HD model. From test I have seen on another forum it doesn't really compare. So I'll build my own if the 4-bay bowtie doesn't do the job I need. Either that or a Gray-Hoverman.

JimP

02-04-09, 05:55 AM

Grand Audio,

Please link to the 4228's replacement test. I thought it was suppose to be an upgrade of sorts.

4bama

02-04-09, 07:30 AM

I wish I could could get an old type 4228. Been looking but all I have found is the new HD model. From test I have seen on another forum it doesn't really compare. So I'll build my own if the 4-bay bowtie doesn't do the job I need. Either that or a Gray-Hoverman.

This is the antenna I wound up installing at my house. I live in Clay County and am 60-70 miles (as the crow flies) from the various Montgomery stations. The Winegard (I use a CM7777 preamp with it) had the best overall gain for any combination VHF/UHF antenna that I researched. It is pricey, about $200, but well worth it. I get all the digital signals in the 90-100% range except WCOV, which comes and goes with the weather propagation, but post-analog shutoff I expect it to boom in here too. I also get other stations, including the Columbus digitals if I rotor to that direction. I don't have to rotor after peaking the signal for 32.1, so I just leave it pointing in that direction. I have the output of the preamp split 3 ways going to my DISH 622 and two DTV-Pals for conversion to older analog TV sets. Never a problem in my deep-fringe area. I copied the following from the Winegard online store at:

http://www.winegarddirect.com/viewitem.asp?p=HD8200U

Winegard HD 8200U High Defintion Platinum VHF/UHF/FM Antenna (HD8200U)

The best of the best. The HD8200U has some of the highest gain of any consumer grade antenna. Built to last, so if you just want to purchase an antenna once, this is the one you want. Includes weather proof cartridge house for download module with 75 Ohm coaxial connection.

Steel hardware is zinc plated for maximum corrosion resistance.
Width: 110 in.
Height: 33 in.
Turning Radius: 101 in.
69 Active Elements, 34 VHF, and 35 UHF
Estimated range 100 miles VHF, 60 miles UHF
Includes hardware for mounting to a mast; antenna has a 75 ohm coax connection
Flexible polyethylene boot covers protect connections from the weather.
Engineered for extra strength with double boom braces, high-impact ABS girder design and support insulators.
Platinum HD antennas deliver powerful VHF performance and offer additional 1 dB to 2 dB higher gain on VHF and UHF, important for weak signal areas.
Outstanding UHF reception acheived by precise director spacing and highly efficient corner reflectors.
Box size: 99½ x 6½ x 7½
Boom Length: 168.25 in.

Click to view larger image(s)

Winegard List Price: $ 189.99
Winegard Direct Price: $ 170.99
Standard Shipping: $ 27.95

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Your final cost: $ 198.94

The metallic silver elements with high-gloss finish give an esthetic look with practical weather protection. Mast clamps with four locking jaws. Fits 1" to 2" OD mast. Double boom on longer flat line models for extra strength and rigidity.
Tri-Linear directors with new plastic insulators are 50% stronger than before. New lock design on UHF director.
Four positive locks give maximum support and permanent alignment. High-impact girder design support insulators.

Truss-type phasing bars, top and bottom, with more conductive surface give maximum transfer of signal. The truss-Type "bridge" construction more than doubles the boom strength. The HD8200P has a compact weatherproof cartridge housing for downlead module with 75ohm coaxial connection. F-connector on PC board sealed with silicone. No separate matching transformer required.

Powerful Performance:

Platinum HD antennas deliver powerful VHF performance, and offer an additional 1 dB to 2 dB higher gain on VHF and UHF for greatly improved picture quality, especially important for weak signal areas. Outstanding UHF reception is achieved by precise director spacing and highly efficient corner reflectors.

CHANNEL
CH
2 CH
4 CH
6 CH
7 CH
9 CH
11 CH
13 CH
14 CH
32 CH
50 CH
69
dB gain over reference dipole
7 7.7 6.4 10.4 12.6 11 12 14.2 13.7 12.2 13
Beam width at half power points
69° 68° 66° 29° 34° 42° 41° 40° 41° 33° 23°
Front-to-back ratio
>20dB >20dB >20dB >20dB >20dB 19dB 18dB 13dB 20dB 20dB 10.5dB

PDCL

02-04-09, 07:46 AM

Brighthouse has supposably already come to an agreement with WCOV-DT (Fox) to carry HD.

Seems that they're waiting for Fox to increase power before they can retransmit it. That should come with the analog cutoff in a couple of weeks.

I called Brighthouse last week about SciFi HD (I keep seeing text pop up saying it's now available in HD, call provider). No SciFi HD yet, although the lady said probably in a few months. Then she said they expect to have Fox HD very soon.

JimP

02-04-09, 08:08 AM

I've had SciFi HD since last August. Nothing like the space battles in Battlestar Galactica in HD. This is on Dish satellite.

I think that cable is going to have a problem keeping up with HD offerings as they have a limited amount of bandwidth and tend to lower the bitrate to accomodate more channels. At some point, physics prevails and you loose quality when you have too many HD channels on cable. With satellite, you may eventually have that problem if they keep adding everybody's locals, but it may just take longer.

brian_esq

02-04-09, 11:08 AM

That's great news. Now, I'd like to have FOX News in HD. They can have Hallmark HD. It's never in HD anyway.

PDCL

02-04-09, 11:27 AM

I've had SciFi HD since last August. Nothing like the space battles in Battlestar Galactica in HD. This is on Dish satellite.

I thought about getting Dish just for BG on SciFi HD. But with only half a season left, I'll just wait. Actually, after BG goes off the air, I'm not sure I'll watch much on SciFi anyway, until Stargate Universe starts.

jpdubose

02-04-09, 01:32 PM

satelliteguys.us is reporting that DISH has announced in today's retailer chat that Montgomery HD locals are launching in March.

rolltide1017

02-04-09, 02:17 PM

Uh, the month wait is going to kill me. The new 129sat is up and running, the channels are already uplinked, just throw the switch already.

Can't wait 'til the go live.

Fox News HD is being reported as already live but, it is red in my guide, any her able to get it? I'm a Turbo HD Gold w/ Platinum HD subscriber. With this plan I was under the impression that I would get all HD channels except the premium/sports pack ones.

jpdubose

02-04-09, 02:23 PM

From what I understand, the Fox channels haven't been turned on for the Turbo packages yet. I don't know what the hold-up is. It should be just a matter of changing a flag in the tables.

I'm on DVR Advantage 250 w/the $10 HD pack and I had both Fox News HD and Fox Business HD this morning.

March can't come fast enough. I just hope they get them on in March and it's not delayed until April or something like that.

JimP

02-04-09, 02:26 PM

rolltide,

Think I saw where in the press release Dish was going to migrate Fox HD onto some of the lower plans.

I've got the absolute HD package and don't have it...yet.

Edit: Meant to say Fox News HD.

cobolisdead

02-04-09, 03:45 PM

Any word on Knology adding any new HD channels?

WackyEngineer

02-04-09, 03:51 PM

I've finished the first phase of the CBS audio changes, let me know if anyone notices any audio issues, loudness problems, etc.

As a side note, I have the audio working on 8-2 now, it should be a stereo version of the audio on 8-1 most of the time, but when CBS is sending SAP or Descriptive Video, it should switch to that.

Russ

jpdubose

02-04-09, 04:54 PM

WackyEngineer

02-04-09, 05:14 PM

The delay made it through the house this time. All that's left now is Obama's signature.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/04/its-official-dtv-hard-date-moved-to-june-12/

Any of the station guys want to comment on their station's plans?

Well, obviously we've already turned off our analog, the transmitters are in a dumpster, so we won't be turning it back on... We've filed a request with the FCC to bring our post transition facility (channel 42) up to full power as planned, since the Birmingham station on 42 and the Mobile station on 42 have already filed with the FCC indicating that they plan to shut down their analog transmitters on February 17th.

WNCF has also filed with the FCC that they plan to shut down their analog on February 17th as well, not sure about the other stations.

Russ

WAKA-DT 8

02-04-09, 05:24 PM

Well, obviously we've already turned off our analog, the transmitters are in a dumpster, so we won't be turning it back on... We've filed a request with the FCC to bring our post transition facility (channel 42) up to full power as planned, since the Birmingham station on 42 and the Mobile station on 42 have already filed with the FCC indicating that they plan to shut down their analog transmitters on February 17th.

WNCF has also filed with the FCC that they plan to shut down their analog on February 17th as well, not sure about the other stations.

Russ

Yep, like he said: our plans have not changed. Analog went away 12/1.

I'll bet everyone else goes 2/17.

Thanks for the 13 day notice, feds!

bdfox18doe

02-04-09, 05:35 PM

I'll bet everyone else goes 2/17.!

Wouldn't that send a nice message to Washington if most of the stations went on the 17th anyway.

Intheswamp

02-04-09, 05:35 PM

My daughter teaches 4th graders down at Red Level. She just came by and said that this morning WSFA was blacked out on Dish....all her students that are on Dish reported the same thing. The kids that have cable said they received it ok this morning. ??? Just thought I'd mention it for what it's worth.

Ed

Grand Audio

02-04-09, 11:39 PM

Hmm....I wonder if they decided that Red Level wasn't in their local market too?

JimP

02-05-09, 04:14 AM

Wouldn't that send a nice message to Washington if most of the stations went on the 17th anyway.

I think its pretty much a done deal at this late a date. Besides, how are they going to handle the stations that would overlap?? That's what I'm watching.

Scott Smith

02-05-09, 07:33 AM

How many sub-channels does WXIA have?

I'm not watching it OTA so I don't know.

bamavaman

02-05-09, 07:33 PM

Tim Ward

02-06-09, 02:01 PM

Here in Millrook, as of yesterday, I am receiving Digital CW22 on channel 32-4 (one set only). No matter how many times I rescan my other set, I cannot get the station. Since I had not heard anything about this starting up, I was kind of suprised.

I just tried scanning, and didn't find it. I'm less than a mile away. I hope they don't do that permanently, but it would seem to be the "cheap" way out. Why not just put WBMM-DT back on the air, and switch over to the CW HD signal. CW needs to allow ALL markets to broadcast their HD signal, not just the larger markets. That's one of the weirdest things I've heard of.

Trip in VA

02-06-09, 02:06 PM

I just tried scanning, and didn't find it. I'm less than a mile away. I hope they don't do that permanently, but it would seem to be the "cheap" way out. Why not just put WBMM-DT back on the air, and switch over to the CW HD signal. CW needs to allow ALL markets to broadcast their HD signal, not just the larger markets. That's one of the weirdest things I've heard of.

It's not that they're not allowed, just that the feed they're provided with the included syndication is only available in SD. They can pipe it in right off a satellite dish just about. To go HD would require new dishes, receivers, switchers, etc. They can't just pass it through like they do with the rest of the feed. CW+ is designed to be "cheap." :)

- Trip

dennispap

02-06-09, 03:46 PM

The White House wants your opinion on The DTV Delay ACT Bill
President Obama said he will not sign the DTV transaction act into law on Monday until he hears what the public has to say, you can comment here

http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing_room/dtv_delay_act/

jtrippe

02-07-09, 10:19 AM

I've scanned twice and cannot pick up 32-4 (CW) here in Wetumpka. I get 32-1 at 78%. I wonder if they were just testing. I emailed them last week about the OTA for the CW but I haven't gotten a response.

JimP

02-07-09, 10:28 AM

Jason,

I couldn't get it here in Jasmine Hills either.

sarasdad

02-07-09, 11:42 AM

not here in Millbrook

Intheswamp

02-07-09, 11:55 AM

I can't get in down here in west Crenshaw County, either.:rolleyes:

:D
Ed

bamavaman

02-07-09, 02:14 PM

I am on the hill next to Camp Grandview - I am still getting 32-4 (CW 22 DT) on LG LCD in the bedroom. Nothing on LG Plasma in the LR.

bdfox18doe

02-07-09, 03:28 PM

I am still getting 32-4 (CW 22 DT) on LG LCD in the bedroom. Nothing on LG Plasma in the LR.

Russ would have to look at their stream, (tho I actually could look remotely :cool:) they may have it "hidden" and thus some sets that should not see it actually can.

Tim Ward

02-07-09, 06:42 PM

I've finished the first phase of the CBS audio changes, let me know if anyone notices any audio issues, loudness problems, etc.

After putting my rabbit ears on the roof for better reception :D (now 60-70% WAKA), I noticed during PGA golf that WAKA's audio was now acting just like WNCF's audio.

Local: 5.1 all the time, with stereo material appearing to be Lt/Rt surround decoded, but dialog is coming from all three screen channels fairly equally, and is also in the surrounds at a lower relative level.

Network: 5.1 all the time, with stereo material going Lt to Left and Rt to Right (with no ability for Lt/Rt surround decode) and silent on all other channels.

Is this what CBS has decided to change? I personally thought you guys had the best audio with the previous WAKA/CBS setup (despite the brief audio drops when switching formats...but that was only during commercials :D), allowing viewers' AVRs to decode the signals according to viewers' audio setups.

The only loudness "problems" I've noticed is when CBS switches to 2/0 source material, where the dialog can be hard to localize (and cause possible listener disorientation) since it's not locked to the screen anymore. And not that anyone has any control over it, but it just bugs the stew out of me when the mix engineer of a sportscast rides the audience/ambience mics up and down--that stuff's annoying! :rolleyes: ;);)

As a side note, I have the audio working on 8-2 now, it should be a stereo version of the audio on 8-1 most of the time, but when CBS is sending SAP or Descriptive Video, it should switch to that.I'm getting Center channel only, with what sounds like either the Left or Right channel audio coming from it.

Grand Audio

02-07-09, 10:57 PM

President Obama said he will not sign the DTV transaction act into law on Monday until he hears what the public has to say, you can comment here.

I went and put my 2 cents worth in....not that it will matter. He was pushing for this even before he took office!

Frank-0-Video

02-09-09, 08:44 AM

Greetings ....

WSFA 12 (14) and WAKA 8 (42 or 55) have been received in my Phenix City residence this morning Feb 9th, beginning at 8:00 AM EST (WSFA) and 8:40 AM (WAKA).

Tuner: Channel Master CM-7000
Antenna: RCA ANT1050, mounted in Window, facing East-Southeast
Signal Strength: Mostly 18%-25%, both stations

Thanx-A-Lot, Frank-0-Video

WackyEngineer

02-09-09, 02:58 PM

After putting my rabbit ears on the roof for better reception :D (now 60-70% WAKA), I noticed during PGA golf that WAKA's audio was now acting just like WNCF's audio.

Local: 5.1 all the time, with stereo material appearing to be Lt/Rt surround decoded, but dialog is coming from all three screen channels fairly equally, and is also in the surrounds at a lower relative level.

Network: 5.1 all the time, with stereo material going Lt to Left and Rt to Right (with no ability for Lt/Rt surround decode) and silent on all other channels.

Is this what CBS has decided to change? I personally thought you guys had the best audio with the previous WAKA/CBS setup (despite the brief audio drops when switching formats...but that was only during commercials :D), allowing viewers' AVRs to decode the signals according to viewers' audio setups.

The only loudness "problems" I've noticed is when CBS switches to 2/0 source material, where the dialog can be hard to localize (and cause possible listener disorientation) since it's not locked to the screen anymore. And not that anyone has any control over it, but it just bugs the stew out of me when the mix engineer of a sportscast rides the audience/ambience mics up and down--that stuff's annoying! :rolleyes: ;);)

I'm getting Center channel only, with what sounds like either the Left or Right channel audio coming from it.

Tim,

You are correct about the audio. Previously, CBS was sending down metadata that would change modes on the AC3 encoder to match the audio that was being sent. Apparently, this was causing a problem with some stations, so they have now stopped sending the metadata, and instructed us to set our AC3 encoders to encode everything as 5.1. I believe they are working on a solution, so this should only be temporary. While I have no control over the network audio, I may be able to force a switch to stereo for our local audio, but I wanted to make sure everything was stable in the CBS approved config before I change it.

I'll have to check, but I think the SAP/DV audio is mono only. It's difficult for me to troubleshoot this SAP stuff since it's only there during primetime shows. Personally, I like to be at home on the couch during primetime...

Russ

Tim Ward

02-09-09, 08:41 PM

I believe they are working on a solution, so this should only be temporary.

Then they could share it with ABC! ;)

I'll have to check, but I think the SAP/DV audio is mono only.I forgot to specify that there was no dialog (just the Left or Right channel) during PGA golf (5.1). So when you say it should be a stereo version of the audio on 8-1 most of the time, that would be unless there is SAP/DV, and then it would switch to mono?

Personally, I like to be at home on the couch during primetime...Well, with that kind of attitude, it's a wonder you get any work done--sheesh! ;)

bdfox18doe

02-10-09, 07:18 AM

I forgot to specify that there was no dialog (just the Left or Right channel) during PGA golf (5.1). So when you say it should be a stereo version of the audio on 8-1 most of the time, that would be unless there is SAP/DV, and then it would switch to mono?

Should be whatever CBS feeds on the SAP channel, not necessarily complete program audio..
FOX also does this, if WCOV has asked them to enable it in their splicer. Baseball is spanish, NFL and Nascarp have nat sound only, which alot of people like as they then don't have to listen to DW... Simpsons is descriptive video, which can be quite funny at times. (Homer sits on the couch farting, as Marge's nose curls and Bart runs from the room)

4bama

02-10-09, 08:31 AM

FYI...Last night NBC13 in Birmingham announced it would delay analog shutoff until June. This is the first Alabama station I have seen that made this decision. So far, the other announcements I've seen states they intend to cut off analog at midnight, Feb 17.

JimP

02-10-09, 08:44 AM

Is NBC13 broadcasting in digital too?

Tim Ward

02-10-09, 09:13 AM

You might remember NBC-13 touting their local news as Alabama's first in HD. WDFX in Dothan is also delaying transition.

Tim Ward

02-10-09, 09:22 AM

Should be whatever CBS feeds on the SAP channel, not necessarily complete program audio..
FOX also does this, if WCOV has asked them to enable it in their splicer. Baseball is spanish, NFL and Nascarp have nat sound only, which alot of people like as they then don't have to listen to DW... Simpsons is descriptive video, which can be quite funny at times. (Homer sits on the couch farting, as Marge's nose curls and Bart runs from the room)

Gotcha. It would seem CBS was sending nat sound on SAP for golf. WCOV doesn't do SAP/DV, although they do convert their local stuff to 14:9. :rolleyes: I'd like to see the Simpsons with DV, that sounds fun! I've watched some of the CBS DV before, but I recently watched a movie on DVD that had a DV track--I don't remember the name of it, but I think it's pretty cool. I assume they're pretty much reading the narratives from the script.