My Bad Jim. I thought you were talking to me.

I'm located just off Ann St in Montgomery and antenna (4228 + 7777 amp) faces around 200 degrees. Before the switch, got WSFA fine ala UHF. After the switch, nada. Put up a VHF antenna on the pole yesterday and am getting WSFA around 80%. Was 100% over UHF. Please go back to channel 14! How are others getting a VHF signal with a 4228? Moved it all over the place and zip. Am not getting 32 at all since they moved their tower to Selma! If you're going to do that, how about boosting your power. WAKA is finally coming in around 70-80% thanks to power increase. Thanks. I have a lot of 100' trees to the south and west, so I'm lucky to get anything. Is 32 just too under powered since they moved to Selma tower?

Scott Smith? Is that you "Country"?

Bill Bassett:)

DaHound,

Which VHF antenna did you put up?

I've got tree too that may be interfering with VHF 12..

Jason.....what's your tree situation? If you don't have any blocking you, that may be the difference in why you can get 12 and DaHound and I can't.

DaHound,

Which VHF antenna did you put up?

I've got tree too that may be interfering with VHF 12..

Jason.....what's your tree situation? If you don't have any blocking you, that may be the difference in why you can get 12 and DaHound and I can't.

I have two trees in my back yard. They aren't in the direction of Montgomery, Selma or Birmigham. I'm in a very flat area too. I guess it's the perfect storm for good OTA. I wonder how much more signal strength and channels I might get if I moved the 4228 outside on the roof. My wife would kill me if the install doesn't first. I think my 7777 makes a huge diffrerence too. Jim , do you have a preamp hooked up?

I know trees are part of the problem for my parents in Lake Forest. They can't even get the Dish HD locals because a tree blocks that sat.

Got a combo vhf/uhf from Walmart in Wetumpka. $69. Don't remember the brand, but it was the only combo vhf/uhf there.

Jason,

Preamp is in the antenna system. It might even be the 7777.

So it sound like if you got good line of sight without nearby trees, the 4228 will work, otherwise....time to go VHF antenna shopping.

Wonder what the odds are that WSFA will change the frequency assignment again?

Scott Smith? Is that you "Country"?

That went over my head.

Jason,

Preamp is in the antenna system. It might even be the 7777.

So it sound like if you got good line of sight without nearby trees, the 4228 will work, otherwise....time to go VHF antenna shopping.

Wonder what the odds are that WSFA will change the frequency assignment again?


I think that might be the solution. I agree, the 4228 is great if you don't have too many trees. I doubt WSFA changes frequencies.

Guess you aren't the Scott Smith I know that works at Gunter.

I think that might be the solution. I agree, the 4228 is great if you don't have too many trees. I doubt WSFA changes frequencies.

Too bad if they don't. The picture was much better over UHF.

DaHound,

How's WCOVDT coming in on your combo antenna?

Can't believe how things change. WCOVDT for a while was borderline, now I'm getting 97-99. WSFA was very strong and now nothing.

These should work for high VHF but in my area of Florida we have 4 channels on VHF (7, 10, 12, 13)and people are finding out that a VHF/UHF combo works much better than a 4228, or even separate VHF/UHF antennas. I'm from Montgomery and go into this forum all the time to see how good ole MGM is getting thru the digital switch--sounds like similar problems as everywhere else. It's almost like going back 30 or 40 years to antennas again.

Guess you aren't the Scott Smith I know that works at Gunter.

No I work for Crosby Communications. We do work on Gunter though.

need to clear up something I said that may be confusing. People are finding out that a VHF-UHF combo OR separate VHF/UHF antenna set-up works better than a 4228 at least around here.

Scott,

Thanks for the reply. I'm basically trying to figure out if I need to buy another antenna or if the 4228 can receive VHF 12. I'm over here in Jasmine Hills with my house below the horizon line. I've already have two 4228s on the mast and I don't think it'll support a 3rd antenna. So something has to give. If I swap the 4228 that's aimed to the south with a VHF antenna, I'll pick up WSFA but likely loose WCOV that's near there.(can't loose "House"lol). So I'm in a bit of a perdicament. What I need is a deep frienge UHF/VHF omnidirectional antenna.....unfortunately there's no such animal.

That flying saucer on a poll of yours looks interesting but if I were to venture a guess, your great reception has a lot to do with how high it is.

try these guys...
http://www.wade-antenna.com/

I'm located just off Ann St in Montgomery and antenna (4228 + 7777 amp) faces around 200 degrees. Before the switch, got WSFA fine ala UHF. After the switch, nada. Put up a VHF antenna on the pole yesterday and am getting WSFA around 80%. Was 100% over UHF. Please go back to channel 14! How are others getting a VHF signal with a 4228? Moved it all over the place and zip. Am not getting 32 at all since they moved their tower to Selma! If you're going to do that, how about boosting your power. WAKA is finally coming in around 70-80% thanks to power increase. Thanks. I have a lot of 100' trees to the south and west, so I'm lucky to get anything. Is 32 just too under powered since they moved to Selma tower?

Scott Smith? Is that you "Country"?

Bill Bassett:)

Think there is a misunderstanding about WNCF 32. Their digital is now on their old analog tower near Gordonsville, Lowndes County. They are running their final assignment of 35kw. Their tower is about a mile from WAKA 8's
(42) tower. WAKA is running 1000kw. Both are at about the same height. Thus the difference in reception

I'm using a Wineguard Squareshooter (powered version) in my attic and all channels except for WSFA come in strong. I guess I'll need to rig up a VHF antenna--just so I can get WSFA--and use a combiner to route the signal down the same coax that I'm using for my Squareshooter. Although I can get the Montgomery HD locals on Dish, I prefer OTA as I just lost the satellite signal due to a T-storm over Emerald Mountain :(

Figures... WSFA broadcasted for several years on 14, and now at the last minute switches channels and screws everything up. So much for allowing viewers to test and prepare before implementing the switch. This is poor planning on WSFA's part if you ask me. They will probably lose viewership because of this.

Looks like my prediction was right about some stations losing viewership because of this moving back to VHF after the mandated cutover (see News Article (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31710381/ns/technology_and_science-tech_and_gadgets/)). Stations like WSFA should not have switched back to VHF after broadcasting HD for years on UHF.

I agree. I get every other local station without any problems with very reliable signal strength. WSFA however, hardly ever shows up and when it does it is always breaking up and going out. I'm not about to mess with my antenna because just for them and chance losing one of the others. Should have stayed on 14 (I always had 90% signal on 14).

Happy Birthday USA, and we hope and pray for many more:D:D:D

I can't understand why you all are having so many problems receiving WSFA. I am in Ozark with a homemade antenna and getting a 75% signal from WSFA. No amps or anything. Getting WCOV at 23%. Also picking up channel 7 at 25% down in Panama City, FL. My antenna is a 93/4 X 91/2 4 bay bowtie. Very hi gain for VHF Hi and UHF. Channel 7 is 69 miles from me. Channel 12 is 49 miles away.

Here's a good read on antennas. http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/sizing.html

Long story short, I'm going to try one of these http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=HBU33 to pull in 12 and 20, and keep one of my 4228s up for channels 8 and 32.

I'll let you know how it turns out.

This may hurt WSFA in the long run. I have cable and can watch them anytime I want. But there are some that don't, and like myself can't afford a fancy antenna outside my house and have to deal with cheap rabbit ears. Before June 12, everyone but WNCF came in fine. They had a backup with WBMM, no problem. By reading these posts, WSFA beams in well everywhere but Montgomery. I'm curious to see how the first all-digital severe weather event shakes out. All these VHF's around the country are having serious problems.

just my 2 cents.

Grand Audio and sluggo41,

I think what you are seeing is that there are several people like myself on this thread that are using a particular type of antenna (channelmaster 4228) that due to design doesn't receive high band VHF consistantly or not at all. We chose it because it was the highest gain antenna for UHF around and at the time we got it, there were no VHF high definition channels. Had we known when we started that there was going to be a VHF channel too, we would have made a different choice.

From a technical standpoint, according the link I posted to above, high band VHF with the correct antenna should have fewer problems than UHF, especially with trees.

sluggo41 ...as far as how the first all digital weather event shakes out, I just don't see much difference having 3 channels giving weather reports versus 4 channels doing it. If the weather gets bad enough, you're going to loose cable and OTA anyway and should have a weather radio.

This may hurt WSFA in the long run. I have cable and can watch them anytime I want. But there are some that don't, and like myself can't afford a fancy antenna outside my house and have to deal with cheap rabbit ears. Before June 12, everyone but WNCF came in fine. They had a backup with WBMM, no problem. By reading these posts, WSFA beams in well everywhere but Montgomery. I'm curious to see how the first all-digital severe weather event shakes out. All these VHF's around the country are having serious problems.

just my 2 cents.
I can speak from experience on this from my post in Mississippi.

We've got the Tupelo NBC affiliate, WTVA, on RF channel 8. I found a sweet spot in the attic and get what is probably the most solid signal of any DTV signal available to me with them. (Which, FWIW is one full time ABC/Fox signal on UHF and a nights-only skip condition PBS/MPB, also on UHF.)

BUT... During the derecho event that did some damage up in Memphis recently, the station was useless. Luckily it was the last day of analog so we still had them on RF channel 9 for a side-by-side comparison.

You know how when there's frequent lightning in the area, your VHF analog signal will get those white streaks across the screen? Well each of those white streaks translates into a broken picture and sound blips with digital. What was a practically unwatchable but easily listenable signal on analog was a digital slide show gone haywire with Max Headroom audio. And the storm wasn't even that severe by the time it blew through here. Most of the lightning was up in the next county and not in-line with transmitter site at all.

Of course, that UHF ABC/Fox digital channel was solid, but this being rural Mississippi they couldn't interrupt Oprah for anything like, you know, 70 mph wind storms or anything silly like that. If there's one thing I miss about Alabama, it's the frothing-at-the-mouth severe weather coverage with Doppler 1 billion and what-not. Here it's just some fresh out of college grads and a camera trained on a Dell laptop. :D

Grand Audio and sluggo41,

I think what you are seeing is that there are several people like myself on this thread that are using a particular type of antenna (channelmaster 4228) that due to design doesn't receive high band VHF consistantly or not at all. We chose it because it was the highest gain antenna for UHF around and at the time we got it, there were no VHF high definition channels.

I totally understand this Jim. The 4228 shouldn't have any problems with VHF-Hi, which is channels 7-13. The antenna I built resembles a 4221 with the elements a little longer.

I wonder if WSFA is just overloading the receivers in Montgomery. Too strong a signal is just as bad as too weak of a signal.

One more thing. My TitanTV guide show there is a WCOV channel 20.3 (This). Anyone getting it up there. Not getting it here. Re-scanned and it isn't there.

I just checked and no 20.3 This TV. Sometimes I can pick it up on 54-2 WXTX late at night. I wish we could get it here. They have old Outer Limits and other good movies and shows. Seems a lot better that RTN.

Keep an eye out for it, I know there are a good number of stations signed to This TV that have not been announced. WCOV is probably "coming soon."

- Trip

(Which, FWIW is one full time ABC/Fox signal on UHF and a nights-only skip condition PBS/MPB, also on UHF.

Just curious Tom, which stations?

Just curious Tom, which stations?
I'm in Grenada. The one I get fulltime is WABG-DT out of Greenwood. They're on channel 32. Was on channel 6. I never got them on 6 in analog ('cept on a car radio), so the strong digital signal is a welcome addition. They carry Fox in SD on a subchannel.

The MPB station is WMAV-DT out of Oxford, channel 36. Back when they were on 18 in analog it was very reliable, but now it's very hit or miss. The MPB website shows us as getting reception from them, WMAB-DT 10 Mississippi State and WMAO-DT 25 out of Greenwood, but I've never gotten anything on those two, analog or digital.

WABG is actually a good ways away, about 50 air miles, but they have a 2,000' tower and the Delta is completely flat. WMAV is up in the hilly country, and is only 36 air miles away.

I totally understand this Jim. The 4228 shouldn't have any problems with VHF-Hi, which is channels 7-13. The antenna I built resembles a 4221 with the elements a little longer.

I wonder if WSFA is just overloading the receivers in Montgomery. Too strong a signal is just as bad as too weak of a signal.

One more thing. My TitanTV guide show there is a WCOV channel 20.3 (This). Anyone getting it up there. Not getting it here. Re-scanned and it isn't there.

I know you're joking about WSFA "overloading" receivers. Their tower is 27 miles south of the city and they are only putting out 31.6kw. If anyone would overload in Montgomery it would be 26 (RF 27) or 45 (RF 46). The real problem is urban noise. And you don't have to be in a city to have it, but it helps.
Electrical "noise" is everywhere, but very concentrated in a urban environment. You would have much less of a problem with that in Ozark. Like I said before, WSFA is "there" but has so many things riding along with it that it becomes very difficult to "see". If you are out of a city and use a outside antenna (outside antennas are not "the in thing" here), WSFA would probably be OK except for skip and weather...but what made VHF good in analog makes it bad in digital. It carries, but is subject to all types of noise. There is trouble with VHF and digital all over the country, not just here. Some VHF's have "re-lit" their pre-transition UHF assignments temporarily to cope with this.
I did spend about an hour at my house seeking the WSFA signal (I live on the side of MGM closest to the WSFA tower). Finally, after moving my indoor antenna to the second floor and placing it at a window facing their tower, I got the signal. It wasn't great and I couldn't have the light on in the room (which is on a dimmer) and continue to receive it, but I did get it. Trouble is, that is not where the TV is. And I'm not installing an outside antenna for just one station. At work, we placed a U/V (outside) antenna on the 2nd floor roof and reception of WSFA improves, but it still takes alot of "hits" which makes it impractical to watch for any length of time (it is "not there period" with an inside antenna). The FCC made several errors in this transition, and one of them was allowing VHF (although VHF would probably be the better of the two bands in very rugged terrain). And if they did allow VHF, to not mix the 2 bands in a market. You would have thought they learned this in 1952 after the big allocation freeze....but it is the government.
But WSFA could have stayed on 14, and this would have been much better for the metro reception (which is by far the biggest chunk of the market).

I'm in Grenada. The one I get fulltime is WABG-DT out of Greenwood. They're on channel 32. Was on channel 6. I never got them on 6 in analog ('cept on a car radio), so the strong digital signal is a welcome addition. They carry Fox in SD on a subchannel.

The MPB station is WMAV-DT out of Oxford, channel 36. Back when they were on 18 in analog it was very reliable, but now it's very hit or miss. The MPB website shows us as getting reception from them, WMAB-DT 10 Mississippi State and WMAO-DT 25 out of Greenwood, but I've never gotten anything on those two, analog or digital.

WABG is actually a good ways away, about 50 air miles, but they have a 2,000' tower and the Delta is completely flat. WMAV is up in the hilly country, and is only 36 air miles away.

WABG used to be one of our stations. They are running a megawatt, while WMAV is running only 272kw at 476m (not a short tower). Power is very important in digital. It amazed me that we were the only Montgomery station
that opted to go with full power. It's like going back to the 1960's.

WCOV-DT is operating at a respectable 460 kW, which is as much as the FCC would allow them on channel 20. I wouldn't call that "not full power" as it's only 3 dB down from your signal...

By the way, have things gotten any less busy for you now that the transition is over? I'd still be interested in TSReader data if at all possible... :D

- Trip

I know you're joking about WSFA "overloading" receivers. Their tower is 27 miles south of the city and they are only putting out 31.6kw. If anyone would overload in Montgomery it would be 26 (RF 27) or 45 (RF 46). The real problem is urban noise. And you don't have to be in a city to have it, but it helps.
Electrical "noise" is everywhere, but very concentrated in a urban environment. You would have much less of a problem with that in Ozark. Like I said before, WSFA is "there" but has so many things riding along with it that it becomes very difficult to "see". If you are out of a city and use a outside antenna (outside antennas are not "the in thing" here), WSFA would probably be OK except for skip and weather...but what made VHF good in analog makes it bad in digital. It carries, but is subject to all types of noise. There is trouble with VHF and digital all over the country, not just here. Some VHF's have "re-lit" their pre-transition UHF assignments temporarily to cope with this.
I did spend about an hour at my house seeking the WSFA signal (I live on the side of MGM closest to the WSFA tower). Finally, after moving my indoor antenna to the second floor and placing it at a window facing their tower, I got the signal. It wasn't great and I couldn't have the light on in the room (which is on a dimmer) and continue to receive it, but I did get it. Trouble is, that is not where the TV is. And I'm not installing an outside antenna for just one station. At work, we placed a U/V (outside) antenna on the 2nd floor roof and reception of WSFA improves, but it still takes alot of "hits" which makes it impractical to watch for any length of time (it is "not there period" with an inside antenna). The FCC made several errors in this transition, and one of them was allowing VHF (although VHF would probably be the better of the two bands in very rugged terrain). And if they did allow VHF, to not mix the 2 bands in a market. You would have thought they learned this in 1952 after the big allocation freeze....but it is the government.
But WSFA could have stayed on 14, and this would have been much better for the metro reception (which is by far the biggest chunk of the market).

In your opinion, do you think WSFA will move back to 14?

WABG used to be one of our stations. They are running a megawatt, while WMAV is running only 272kw at 476m (not a short tower). Power is very important in digital. It amazed me that we were the only Montgomery station
that opted to go with full power. It's like going back to the 1960's.
Having grown up watching Birmingham TV, gtetting WABG is a real trip. It's the most professional of the two Delta newscasts, but that ain't saying much. Their tower though is very impressive. It's easily visible for a good 25-30 miles down US-82 at night.

WMAV is still running lower power from what I've heard. I can't confirm it independently but was told they're still at low power (6.4 kW @ 279m) for some reason.

BTW, do you think the choice of many of your area stations to not go 'full power' is one of economics, or perhaps the engineers are convined that the digital can do a lot more with a lot less?

WCOV-DT is operating at a respectable 460 kW, which is as much as the FCC would allow them on channel 20. I wouldn't call that "not full power" as it's only 3 dB down from your signal...

By the way, have things gotten any less busy for you now that the transition is over? I'd still be interested in TSReader data if at all possible... :D

- Trip

Well, seems most in the market "bailed" from their original plans. WCOV was originally up for 1mw on channel 16, if you recall.

Glad you mentioned that TSReader request again. Yes, we'll send that to you.

It has been a ride, I got to tell you....wouldn't want to do that again.

Having grown up watching Birmingham TV, gtetting WABG is a real trip. It's the most professional of the two Delta newscasts, but that ain't saying much. Their tower though is very impressive. It's easily visible for a good 25-30 miles down US-82 at night.

WMAV is still running lower power from what I've heard. I can't confirm it independently but was told they're still at low power (6.4 kW @ 279m) for some reason.

BTW, do you think the choice of many of your area stations to not go 'full power' is one of economics, or perhaps the engineers are convined that the digital can do a lot more with a lot less?

No doubt economics. And I think the engineers knew alot more than those above them, if you know what I mean.

In your opinion, do you think WSFA will move back to 14?

Don't know. The day to day cost for that would be much higher, and I'm sure it wasn't budgeted for.

DaHound,

How's WCOVDT coming in on your combo antenna?

Can't believe how things change. WCOVDT for a while was borderline, now I'm getting 97-99. WSFA was very strong and now nothing.


WCOV comes in the best of all of them and it's pointing at 200 degrees. When I point SE it's at 100%. Of course, I lose WAKA and WNCF if I do that.

Two things need to happen to make us happy. WSFA needs to go back to UHF or boost the damn power. WNCF needs to boost power, period!

Oh, one more thing. A hurricane needs to take some trees down in my neighbors yards. :p

Don't know. The day to day cost for that would be much higher, and I'm sure it wasn't budgeted for.


From a cost containment standpoint, I wouldn't blame them. Only fly in the ointment is if they lost a significant number of viewers but really don't know what percentage of viewers are OTA much less how many can no longer receive their signal. My impression is that most are either cable or satellite.

Any idea of what percentage of viewers are OTA???

Two things need to happen to make us happy. WSFA needs to go back to UHF or boost the damn power.



DaHound,

You know how that goes. You go buy a new monster size antenna, drag the extention ladder out again, do the acrobat routine swapping antennas, then WSFA switches back to UHF. I'm sending them a bill if they do that. :D

Well, seems most in the market "bailed" from their original plans. WCOV was originally up for 1mw on channel 16, if you recall.

They'd wanted 1000 kW on channel 20 so as to recycle their channel 20 antenna, but the FCC said no to that power level(too much interference to WMPV-DT in Mobile). They also tried getting 600 kW or so but that, too, was rejected.

Glad you mentioned that TSReader request again. Yes, we'll send that to you.

It has been a ride, I got to tell you....wouldn't want to do that again.

No sweat. I didn't want to bother you with it while you were busy with the transition. I bet you're just glad it's done with at long last! :)

- Trip

From a cost containment standpoint, I wouldn't blame them. Only fly in the ointment is if they lost a significant number of viewers but really don't know what percentage of viewers are OTA much less how many can no longer receive their signal. My impression is that most are either cable or satellite.

Any idea of what percentage of viewers are OTA???

Hard to give a good figure, since DirecTV doesn't offer locals. Say 15% plus DTV subs. But that doesn't take into account the second/third set family on antenna at those ADS homes...so higher.

From a cost containment standpoint, I wouldn't blame them. Only fly in the ointment is if they lost a significant number of viewers but really don't know what percentage of viewers are OTA much less how many can no longer receive their signal. My impression is that most are either cable or satellite.

Any idea of what percentage of viewers are OTA???

JimP, you are correct....approx 90% of the US homes have a subscription service, according to Mediaweek Magazine Dec 19, 2008, leaving approx 10% of the homes with over the air only. However a high number of homes with subscription service have TV sets that are not wired (kitchen sets, kid bedrooms sets, etc). By April 2009, the Government had issued over 40 million coupons for DTV converters, indicating that there are more than 40 million TV sets in US with OTA only. This was much higher than the Gov. expected, thus the reason they ran short.

By April 2009, the Government had issued over 40 million coupons for DTV converters, indicating that there are more than 40 million TV sets in US with OTA only. This was much higher than the Gov. expected, thus the reason they ran short.

That's because the average viewer thought they needed one when they actually didn't. No telling how many converter boxes are sitting in the closet.

. No telling how many converter boxes are sitting in the closet.

Nope... EBay...:(

That's because the average viewer thought they needed one when they actually didn't. No telling how many converter boxes are sitting in the closet.
All the sets in my residence are hooked up to satellite, but I still got a box in case I ever move out and take my analog TV with me. Last time I moved I was without service for a while and OTA was all I had.

Someone please check famhd channel 315 for sound problems. I am having trouble with dolby digital and would like to make sure its not just me. Thanks:D

JimP, you are correct....approx 90% of the US homes have a subscription service, according to Mediaweek Magazine Dec 19, 2008, leaving approx 10% of the homes with over the air only. However a high number of homes with subscription service have TV sets that are not wired (kitchen sets, kid bedrooms sets, etc). By April 2009, the Government had issued over 40 million coupons for DTV converters, indicating that there are more than 40 million TV sets in US with OTA only. This was much higher than the Gov. expected, thus the reason they ran short.


Hi David
Welcome to the forum.
We look forward to getting your input on the issues relating to Central Alabama digital TV reception.

So, stick around....and, thanks for cranking the power up. Now if we could get channel 32 to do that. :)

Yes, and I don't understand why any station now would use bandwidth to broadcast their digital signal on both an HD feed and a SD feed. All converter boxes I've reviewed will handle the bit rate of an HD feed and convert it to analog...and all digital-ready TV's do that, and we know the satellite TV providers (Dish & DirecTV) handle that, so that only leaves local cable companies...

Maybe some local cable companies still need a SD feed to convert to analog for rebroadcast on their cable system??? Most feeds from local TV stations are fed to the cable companies and Satellite providers via landline (optical) so does anyone know if any local stations still broadcast HD and SD signals on seperate subchannels?

Russ, and others, please chime in...;)

Down here in Mobile (and likely with every other APTV station), the cable companies are showing center-cut stretch-o-vision on analog cable because APTV is stretching their SD video to fill the screen. The only thing that looks normal is programming that is being broadcast in HD or pre-formatted to be center-cut. Why can't APTV just put the SD programming in the center of the screen in it's original aspect like everyone else?

Why can't APTV just put the SD programming in the center of the screen in it's original aspect like everyone else?

To put it in context, APT is a government-run institution, and running it is not the same as running a private broadcaster. That doesn't automatically mean that it can't be run as well as (or even better than) a private broadcaster, but, to put it bluntly, they don't know (or don't care about) what they're doing. It's so prevalent, that their staff would have to be blind to not notice it. I've seen, and heard, some "interesting" things at their production center in Montgomery. Also, in speaking with a colleague of mine who produces a long-running popular APT program in HD, he has been to the network operations center in Birmingham and complained excessively to their director of engineering about these problems. He told me he "can't talk about it without cussing." The two main issues here are:

1. APT stretches SD content to fill the 16:9 frame. This was not always the case, but who knows why it is done now.

2. APT is apparently being center-cropped for SD on cable systems. This can't continue without either APT requesting the cable companies to letterbox the down-converted signal, or APT MUST require all programming to be produced protecting for 4:3. However, APT doesn't have control over non-APT programming, some of which may be produced without 4:3 protection.

My colleague's program is NOT protected for 4:3, but APT obviously doesn't require it.

A third issue is that a program may air in HD one time, but will air in SD (and stretched) another time.

I don't even know if complaining to them will accomplish anything, but it definitely couldn't hurt.

**Example: Tonight's episode of NOVA on the Parthenon is not entirely 4:3 protected (graphics or camera framing), so I would advocate that APT should require cable and satellite providers to letterbox the HD channel instead of center-punch. It is not a matter of being right or wrong, to protect or not to protect is a production decision that may not be communicated before production, or may not even be addressed. I ALWAYS 4:3-protect on my projects, unless I am absolutely certain it will not be center-punched for 4:3 display.

I've heard that the reason that broadcasters are reluctant to ask cable/sat providers to show the channel 16:9 letterboxed, downconverted to 4:3 for SD cable is because 4:3 program would they show up on the screen windowboxed, with black bars around the entire picture. This, apparently, would supposedly generate a lot of complaints about the picture "not filling the screen".

I can understand the ignorance of non-HD households because I know a lot of people who complain about letterboxed DVDs and the like. These are the same people who buy a widescreen TV then force it to stretch all SD content because they "paid for a wide screen and want to fill it up" no matter that it distorts and ruins the picture.

It's a shame that APT and certain cable networks (cough, A&E, cough Cartoon Network) stretch all their SD programming.

It seems like there should be some technical solution to automatically crop or letterbox the picture as required by the content but no one has apparently bothered to implement it.

The last time I was in Birmingham, I saw APT off DirecTV and there was an SD 4:3 program that was squeezed, not stretched! So even on the 4:3 screen I was watching, there were pillar bars and everyone looked tall and skinny.

FWIW Mississippi Public Broadcasting has opted to keep running two channels per transmitter, one SD and one HD. So far it appears the SD subchannel either crops or letterboxes HD content as needed, which gets around APT's problem.

I've heard that the reason that broadcasters are reluctant to ask cable/sat providers to show the channel 16:9 letterboxed, downconverted to 4:3 for SD cable is because 4:3 program would they show up on the screen windowboxed, with black bars around the entire picture.

I don't doubt it. 16:9 can be such a pain. I prefer center-crop instead of letterbox in the case of 16:9 programming, which is what a lot of APT's programming is now-a-days. Consider 16:9 content that isn't 4:3 protected and is all over the screen. On one hand, when letter-boxed, you see it all, but then 4:3 content is window-boxed. On the other hand, when center-cropped, you get a full screen for everything, but will miss some action, a face, or titles. Pick your poison. The antidote is 4:3-protected programming, of which I am a staunch advocate. Everybody wins with that.

I can understand the ignorance of non-HD households because I know a lot of people who complain about letterboxed DVDs and the like. These are the same people who buy a widescreen TV then force it to stretch all SD content because they "paid for a wide screen and want to fill it up" no matter that it distorts and ruins the picture.I have a "fancy" 4:3 CRT TV, where I can watch letterboxed 16:9 programs as well as window-boxed, up-converted (then down-rezzed) 4:3 programs. It's an amazing piece of technology, my TV! :D Honestly, I think it would be best for ALL HD 16:9 programming to be produced with 4:3 protection, until analog TV's and analog/SD cable are in the minority. Then everyone's screens will be filled (mostly), without parts of the images and text being cut off. And those with widescreens can still turn on their "stretch-o-vision" or what have you for 4:3 content.

It's a shame that APT and certain cable networks (cough, A&E, cough Cartoon Network) stretch all their SD programming.

It seems like there should be some technical solution to automatically crop or letterbox the picture as required by the content but no one has apparently bothered to implement it.

It's already in use (or was) by some. But it wouldn't be feasible to do it at the cable companies' head ends. It requires a separate SD feed.
NBC's SD feed is switched from letterboxing to center-cropping for some of its programming and commercials. For example, Late Night with Conan O'Brien was letterboxed in SD, but when a 16:9 HD commercial would play, it would be center-cropped instead of letterboxed. APT had an SD sub-channel, but it was being used to feed their analog transmitters. When they ceased analog broadcasting, they removed the SD sub-channel. However, I can't remember how programming was formatted on it compared with the HD sub-channel. I'm glad they got rid of it so there could be more bandwidth for the HD sub-channel. One HD and 3 SD sub-channels is like trying to get a cup of orange juice out of one orange.

But this whole DTV, 16:9, 4:3, HD, SD, 1080i, 720p, 2.0, 5.1, thing is still in its infancy, and has a lot of "bugs" still to be worked out.

It seems like there should be some technical solution to automatically crop or letterbox the picture as required by the content but no one has apparently bothered to implement it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Format_Description

- Trip

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Format_Description

- Trip

Sorry Trip, I totally forgot AFD was out there. :o

That's obviously how NBC was doing it internally for their SD feed. The question is: will we see this soon from local broadcasters and cable companies in our respective "necks of the woods?" And then, it can't be expected that the metadata will always be correct, can it? I don't think my receiver supports it, so others like me will not benefit from it without spending money on a new set or receiver.

As I recall, the Fox splicer already implements it. PBS stations are supposed to be working on it, since their programming does not respect safe areas.

I can't speak for any of the other stations involved, though NBC as a network is pushing it. ABC had expressed no interest last time I heard. I don't remember what CBS was doing.

- Trip

As I recall, the Fox splicer already implements it.
- Trip

Splicer has nothing to do with AFD, it's done at the network level. Here's a simplistic altho somewhat dated explanation.

http://www.smpte.org/sections/section_washingtondc/washington_previous/was_jun07/JonesAFDandBarDataSMPTE6-21-07.pdf

Last I heard from CBS was that they didn't feel implementation was practical in their view.

Splicer has nothing to do with AFD, it's done at the network level.

Thanks for the correction. :)

- Trip

Dish added MSNBC HD last week and plans to add QVC HD, Investigation Discovery HD and BBC America HD in the coming weeks. :)

Bring on ESPNU and ION HD please Dish.

Dish added MSNBC HD last week

Two words: Rachel Maddow. :eek:

Anyone have knowledge of Brighthouse Roadrunner internet service. Compare to att

Anyone have knowledge of Brighthouse Roadrunner internet service. Compare to att

We just switched to Brighthouse from ATT about two months ago. Brighthouse offers higher speeds. I like Brighthouse better. Also, if something happens with your modem Brighthouse replaces it for free. Our ATT modem went out twice and we were asked to buy a new one the second time because it was out of warranty. ATT only goes up to 6 mbps while you can get 7 and 10 with Brighthouse. ATT was decent service though. Thier billing department is what forced us to leave. Both services work just fine.

We just switched to Brighthouse from ATT about two months ago. Brighthouse offers higher speeds. I like Brighthouse better. Also, if something happens with your modem Brighthouse replaces it for free. Our ATT modem went out twice and we were asked to buy a new one the second time because it was out of warranty. ATT only goes up to 6 mbps while you can get 7 and 10 with Brighthouse. ATT was decent service though. Thier billing department is what forced us to leave. Both services work just fine.

Thank you very much. I have cable and I am thinking of getting cable and internet.

ATT vs Brighthouse Internet:

You really can't even compare the two. Almost apples vs watermelons.

ATT is a DSL Product (ADSL Actually) where Brighthouse is broadband.

Broadband will smoke DSL (except during peak hours)

Now when ATT rolls out Uverse lookout.

That is a very miss leading statement as DSL is considered broadband as well.

Brighthouse will offer faster speeds but, there isn't truly anything wrong with DSL either. It is just a matter of what fits your situation better. I have been quite happy with the 6mbps from ATT as that speed is plenty sufficent for internet browsing and gaming on the PS3. It wouldbe nice to have a faster connection when downloading some things and Brighthouse will have much better upload speeds (which is the one thing I really miss from cable when I lived in Orlando). DSL just fits our situation better since all of our cable outlets in the house are being used by our DiSH Network service. Instead of having more cable lines installed, DSL was just easier.

I didn't know AT&T had bumped it up to 6mb/512k.
That's not a bad deal there.

They were topping out at 3mb/256k

Besides convenience, it may come down to whether or not you're close enough to the CO or whatever it is to get DSL.

I went from paying $40+/mo for 3Mbps DSL that rarely saw 2 Mbps, and went off all the time, to 10 Mbps cable for $53 that runs a solid 6 Mbps. Turns out we're just too far from the switching office for the DSL to run reliably. ATT's answer? Throttle the speed to the 512kbps service and "hope it gets better". :mad:

Of course the trade off is our cracker box cableco has a 5GB daily cap, but it has gone off once in three months, and that was for 5 minutes. YMMV.

I didn't know AT&T had bumped it up to 6mb/512k.
That's not a bad deal there.

They were topping out at 3mb/256k

The 6MB service is not available in a lot of areas. I've been watching it for a year or so since it became available. Still not available for my phone number, and several co-workers that I've tried.

Cable may have more bandwidth available (depending on all your neighbors usage, the bandwidth is shared), but the penalty is usually really erratic latency. For old guys like me that still play games online, consistent latency is vital and I need a really low ping to make up for my slow reflexes.

Per Google Earth I'm less that 2 miles from the Dalrada switch.

This TV is now on 20.3 OTA..Thanks Mr Woods...I live in the Dalrada area and have AT&T DSL Lite for $10 a month. Can play games, download videos, watch all the baseball on MLB.com with no problem. Since I never upload it works for me.

I noticed a jump in power from ~75% to ~98% from 26 about 2 weeks ago. At first I thought it was a weather anomaly, but the signal is still consistent at ~98% (measured by my Dish 622).

Anyone else notice this??:cool:

I noticed a jump in power from ~75% to ~98% from 26 about 2 weeks ago. At first I thought it was a weather anomaly, but the signal is still consistent at ~98% (measured by my Dish 622).

Anyone else notice this??:cool:

Yep, I've seen pretty much the same thing here in NW Auburn; signal strength went from mid-70s to mid-90s. (91XG and CM 7777 in the attic, Dish 722/622 tuners.)

I noticed a jump in power from ~75% to ~98% from 26 about 2 weeks ago. At first I thought it was a weather anomaly, but the signal is still consistent at ~98% (measured by my Dish 622).

Anyone else notice this??:cool:

Unfortunately their HD programming went from a 95 to 60ish when they dropped that distant HD feed they had a couple of years ago.

I understand the content providers had boosted their fees and several PBS networks dropped them due to cost.

Pretty sad as they had pretty good HD programming.

http://www.secsports.com/index.php?s=&url_channel_id=2&url_article_id=12874&change_well_id=2

These are the old Jefferson Pilot/JP Sports/Raycom Saturday morning games that ESPN will be televising regionally at 11:00. Montgomery's affiliate will be WCOV. Pretty interesting that WSFA is not the affiliate. They carried those Jefferson Pilot games for a long time.

Has WCOV changed anything with there signal? The first few weeks after the switch they were coming in in the low 90% but lately it has only been in the mid 70% with many drop outs.

Unfortunately their HD programming went from a 95 to 60ish when they dropped that distant HD feed they had a couple of years ago.

I understand the content providers had boosted their fees and several PBS networks dropped them due to cost.

Pretty sad as they had pretty good HD programming.

PBS actually discontinued that feed not long after APT dropped it. Unfortunate for us.

I noticed a jump in power from ~75% to ~98% from 26 about 2 weeks ago. At first I thought it was a weather anomaly, but the signal is still consistent at ~98% (measured by my Dish 622).

Anyone else notice this??:cool:

They probably just went back up. I used to get them at 90-100%, then a few months ago my RX quality dropped and stayed around 60-70%.

"Has WCOV changed anything with there signal? The first few weeks after the switch they were coming in in the low 90% but lately it has only been in the mid 70% with many drop outs?"

I did not see the signal drop here...still at 100%.:)

Here's an industry article. The DFW area is flat as a pancake and most all signals (including KTVT) originate from Cedar Hill, about 10-15 miles south-southwest of Dallas. KTVT joins the list of help calls to the FCC from VHF
stations who have seen their viewers dry up.

What's the frequency, Kenneth? CBS11 wants a new one
07/21/09 10:41 AM



CBS11 has faded to static for many of its rabbit-eared viewers.

By ED BARK
Citing a "massive decline" in ratings and "thousands of complaints" from viewers after the June 12th transition from analog to digital, D-FW's CBS11 (KTVT) has an "urgent" request before the Federal Communications Commission. Namely, the station wants a new frequency in hopes of stopping the bleeding.

This is where it gets a bit complicated unless you're an engineer or otherwise well-schooled in "post-transition digital allotments." But CBS11's petition to the FCC, a copy of which has been obtained by unclebarky.com, is crystal-clear in charting the audience losses the station has suffered at the dawning of the digital age.

Since the transition, KTVT "has received several thousand telephone calls and email messages from viewers complaining about the difficulties receiving its signal," the station says. "The majority of these complaints are from viewers who utilize 'rabbit ears' and other indoor antenna systems, and who live more than 15 miles from the KTVT transmitter site . . . While KTVT has attempted to help these viewers receive its signal, it has become apparent that their reception problems are not susceptible of a ready cure."

Using Nielsen Media Research figures, CBS11's petition says the station's over-the-air prime-time (7 to 10 p.m.) ratings dropped 57 percent from the pre-digital week of June 1st to the post-digital week of June 22nd. But among viewers with digital-friendly cable, the dropoff was just 1.9 percent, CBS11 says.

"There is only one possible explanation for an over-the-air ratings decline of this magnitude over a few short weeks and without any significant change in programming," the station says. "Quite simply, large numbers of over-the-air viewers are no longer able to receive KTVT's signal."

Hoping to change this picture before the start of the fall season, CBS11 is asking the FCC to grant use of Channel 19 as its post-transition frequency for non-cable or satellite subscribers using converter boxes to get the station's signal.

KTVT was allotted Channel 11 as its post-digital frequency, but that's been a disaster, the station says. Its sister station, TXA21, allotted Channel 19 by the FCC, instead would use Channel 18 if KTVT's petition is granted. The petition was filed on July 16th.

Maybe this is enough to make many a reader's head spin. But the stakes are high, particularly in a fall season in which CBS will combat NBC's Monday-to-Friday, 9 p.m. Jay Leno show with four proven crime series -- CSI: Miami, CSI: NY, The Mentalist, Numb3rs -- and the promising new legal drama The Good Wife, starring Julianna Margulies. Every fraction of a rating point counts under such circumstances.

Monday's prime-time ratings weren't that bad for CBS11, though. The station easily won the 9 p.m. hour in total viewers with a CSI: Miami repeat. It also topped the 8 to 9 p.m. slot with reruns of Two and a Half Men and The Big Bang Theory. And its 7 to 8 p.m. reprises of How I Met Your Mother and Rules of Engagement were a close second to ABC's "Men Tell All" recap of The Bachelorette.

Would those numbers be better if CBS11 is granted a new post-analog frequency to serve viewers relying on converter boxes?

The station clearly would love to find out.

Actually, to correct the article, KTXA would only use channel 18 for up to one year, due to interference concerns with regard to KYTX-18 (19-1) in Tyler. KTXA would ultimately land on channel 29.

- Trip

Well sports fans, no one that uses a forum like this can complain about not being warned over a year ago about what type of antenna to install. We had many threads on here that cautioned readers to be sure and install a good combo VHF/UHF antenna...yet I read posts of many arguing that "UHF only" would suffice after the transition.

Many folks are complaining about a problem that would be solved by installing a quality VHF/UHF antenna...indoor or attic installations will not work in many locations yet the complaints that "it was working before the transition" keep accumulating.

Stations must drop their soft approach and tell viewers the truth when they call to complain. The FCC can not (and should not) remedy every unique situation in DFW, Montgomery, or anywhere else.

IMHO......

Well sports fans, no one that uses a forum like this can complain about not being warned over a year ago about what type of antenna to install. We had many threads on here that cautioned readers to be sure and install a good combo VHF/UHF antenna...yet I read posts of many arguing that "UHF only" would suffice after the transition.

Many folks are complaining about a problem that would be solved by installing a quality VHF/UHF antenna...indoor or attic installations will not work in many locations yet the complaints that "it was working before the transition" keep accumulating.

Stations must drop their soft approach and tell viewers the truth when they call to complain. The FCC can not (and should not) remedy every unique situation in DFW, Montgomery, or anywhere else.

IMHO......


Seems the major issue in DFW (as in most cities) is the indoor antenna issue.

(Not that I go out on housecalls) but I was just at a viewer's house near the station this morning. I had been there before to help this elderly lady with her reception issues. She has a Terk inside antenna. WSFA comes in (as the weakest signal) only after I fooled with it for quite awhile. All the other stations just boom in. I demonstrated to her just how VERY critical my placement of the antenna was to receive WSFA. She said "I'll be afraid to move it in order to dust". So she got some maksing tape and marked off the base. She also drew the position of the dipoles on a sheet of paper and listed their length...just in case

Seems the major issue in DFW (as in most cities) is the indoor antenna issue.

(Not that I go out on housecalls) but I was just at a viewer's house near the station this morning. I had been there before to help this elderly lady with her reception issues. She has a Terk inside antenna. WSFA comes in (as the weakest signal) only after I fooled with it for quite awhile. All the other stations just boom in. I demonstrated to her just how VERY critical my placement of the antenna was to receive WSFA. She said "I'll be afraid to move it in order to dust". So she got some maksing tape and marked off the base. She also drew the position of the dipoles on a sheet of paper and listed their length...just in case

Not that I make housecalls either, but I was also there. She also has a set with an outdoor antenna (High-V combined with a UHF only), and her lowest signal strength is on WSFA. I say signal strength, because her set has a separate signal strength and signal quality (SNR) meter. The signal quality was similar on all stations (22-26 db SNR as reported by the TV), but even WNCF (about 35 air miles from her home) had a higher signal strength than WSFA (about 25 air miles from her home.) Obviously every situation is different, but it seems that in this case, even with an outdoor antenna VHF doesn't fare as well as UHF.

Russ

Not that I make housecalls either, but I was also there. She also has a set with an outdoor antenna (High-V combined with a UHF only), and her lowest signal strength is on WSFA. I say signal strength, because her set has a separate signal strength and signal quality (SNR) meter. The signal quality was similar on all stations (22-26 db SNR as reported by the TV), but even WNCF (about 35 air miles from her home) had a higher signal strength than WSFA (about 25 air miles from her home.) Obviously every situation is different, but it seems that in this case, even with an outdoor antenna VHF doesn't fare as well as UHF.

Russ

And some may be asking why we sould help someone get WSFA when they can get WAKA just fine? That's the kind of wonderful people we are at the station with the happy difference!

Not that I make housecalls either, but I was also there. She also has a set with an outdoor antenna (High-V combined with a UHF only), and her lowest signal strength is on WSFA. I say signal strength, because her set has a separate signal strength and signal quality (SNR) meter. The signal quality was similar on all stations (22-26 db SNR as reported by the TV), but even WNCF (about 35 air miles from her home) had a higher signal strength than WSFA (about 25 air miles from her home.) Obviously every situation is different, but it seems that in this case, even with an outdoor antenna VHF doesn't fare as well as UHF.

Russ

I think it's great that everyone is helping those with reception problems. I remember our first TV, 1952, I was 12, and the only broadcast stations were VHF. I remember when TV stations became so numerous (new networks, etc) that the FCC and industry introduced the UHF frequency bands and everyone went through the same hoops and growing pains to try and receive these dang new fangled stations :).

Anyway, VHF was always the "coveted" frequency for a station to have, meant more "prestige"...mainly because using the same amount of transmitter power a VHF signal would reach fringe areas with a "watchable" signal whereas UHF stations could not...living in a rural area with mountains and trees between us and the transmitters meant VHF stations were the only ones we could receive.

The same physics still apply today....given the same amount of transmitter power a VHF signal will reach farther than a UHF signal. I believe some of the problems experienced by viewers trying to receive channel 12's VHF signal may be related to the poor design of the TV tuners involved not having a good multipath discriminator or VHF amplifier in the tuner assembly.

I can only speak from my experience here in Clay county south of Ashland and probably as far away from all the Montgomery transmitters as anyone, and the VHF signal from channel 12 has been >100% ever since the transition. I had to use a splitter to attenuate the signal so 12 would not swamp the tuner circuit.

The weakest signal comes from channel 32, yet it is always between 70-80% and I never rotate my antenna, I keep it in the "middle" of the Montgomery area tranmitter tower directions.

So I believe anyone having problems with receiving channel 12 has an antenna problem or poorly designed tuner.:confused:

4bama's post is interesting---since the first TV station in Montgomery was on UHF, WCOV/20 came on the air in 1953, and operates on UHF 20 to this day. WSFA/12 came along a year or so later.

Was helping a friend of a friend with an antenna today connected to a Directv HR21 with piggyback tuner.

Winegard 2000 (The one that looks like a flying saucer) in County downs.
We had the antenna as high as 30 feet to it sitting on a 8' step ladder in the back yard.
97% on Fox and 0% nada on WSFA. That is a VHF/UHF combo antenna.

That sports fans should tell you how bad the upper VHF situation is.

Scott, the "flying saucer" is a poor choice of antennas for good high-end VHF frequencies..the better Winegard has 12 horizontal elements of different lengths specifically for VHF 2-13 and the wedge V front-end with a 4' extended boom for UHF channels....

I have not seen any multi-directional antenna with the gains distributed appropriately for all the different VHF/UHF frequencies. That's why they are a hit-and-miss product...in some DMA's they will work fine, in others there will always be the "outlier" frequency that is the "miss". In the Montgomery DMA it happens to be the channel 12 frequency.

You would think there would be no problem picking up a station inside the city of license. Could the RF from the nearby radio tower behind Eastdale Mall affect the DTV reception? I'm the one that gets a better signal from channel 7 (I guess from Mt. Chehaw, but still not good enough for a picture) than WSFA no matter where I put the antenna.

Scott,

Wednesday night, I helped a friend with her antenna situation. She lives in Dalraida.
The antenna was one from radio shack which is an indoor antenna with what looks like a dish (probably for UHF) and rabbit ears (obviously for VHF). It was also amplified.

It was about 4 feet from the floor, level with a south facing window. We did a channel scan and was able to pick up WSFA. Frankly, I wasn't expecting it to lock in but it did.

Not sure about your friend's situation, but it kind of sounds like maybe the amplifier wasn't connected, broken or perhaps using one of those splitters that doesn't pass VHF.

Anyone using FF v3.5.1?

I posted this problem on the Firefox forum and so far the replies indicate there is a problem with this forum's bulletin board software, vBulletin v3.7.6.

I noticed when logged in and reading a post with FF 3.5.1 that the 3 reply option buttons in the lower right of each post does not show up.. "Quote", "M. Quote" and "Quick Reply".

I access this same forum with IE8 and the 3 buttons are where they are supposed to be.

I need verification from any of you that happens to have FF v3.5.1 that you do, or do not, see these 3 buttons when logged in here. (If not logged in the only button is "Quote", and even it does not show in FF, only the option at the bottom of the page, where you can select "Go Advanced" shows up.

The WildblueWorld forum (I'm on Wildblue satellite for my ISP) uses vBulletin v3.6.8 (this forum says it's using v3.7.6) and the buttons display correctly on posts in the WB forum.

There is either a problem with Firefox or this version of vBulletin, and I suspect the problem is FF, since IE8 has no problem.

Your feedback is appreciated...thanks.:confused:

(Edit) I just checked the DBS forum, it also uses the same version (3.7.6) as this forum and Firefox 3.5.1 displayed the option buttons correctly, so definately something is different, or wrong, with the way this forum's vBulletin software is configured. I had to use IE8 just to edit this post because FF did not show the "edit" button either (which shows to the left of the "Quote" button when you read your own posts)...

I'll wait for further feedback from you other Firefox users...thanks..

Anyone using FF v3.5.1?

I posted this problem on the Firefox forum and so far the replies indicate there is a problem with this forum's bulletin board software, vBulletin v3.7.6.

I noticed when logged in and reading a post with FF 3.5.1 that the 3 reply option buttons in the lower right of each post does not show up.. "Quote", "M. Quote" and "Quick Reply".

I access this same forum with IE8 and the 3 buttons are where they are supposed to be.

I need verification from any of you that happens to have FF v3.5.1 that you do, or do not, see these 3 buttons when logged in here. (If not logged in the only button is "Quote", and even it does not show in FF, only the option at the bottom of the page, where you can select "Go Advanced" shows up.

The WildblueWorld forum (I'm on Wildblue satellite for my ISP) uses vBulletin v3.6.7 (this forum says it's using v3.7.6) and the buttons display correctly on posts in the WB forum.

There is either a problem with Firefox or this version of vBulletin, and I suspect the problem is FF, since IE8 has no problem.

Your feedback is appreciated...thanks.:confused:

(Edit) I just checked the DBS forum, it also uses the same version (3.7.6) as this forum and Firefox 3.5.1 displayed the option buttons correctly, so definately something is different, or wrong, with the way this forum's vBulletin software is configured. I had to use IE8 just to edit this post because FF did not show the "edit" button either (which shows to the left of the "Quote" button when you read your own posts)...

I'll wait for further feedback from you other Firefox users...thanks..

I'm running 3.5 on Vista Home Premium, and everything is fine. I see that Firefox has downloaded an update (presumably to 3.5.1) but it hasn't been applied yet, maybe I'll hold off on that...

Russ

You would think there would be no problem picking up a station inside the city of license. Could the RF from the nearby radio tower behind Eastdale Mall affect the DTV reception? I'm the one that gets a better signal from channel 7 (I guess from Mt. Chehaw, but still not good enough for a picture) than WSFA no matter where I put the antenna.

It's possible, if it's being used for FM. If you're using an amplifier that doesn't trap FM frequencies something could be leaking through. If it's just microwave/cell stuff then it's very very unlikely.

I'm using FF 3.5.1 on Windows 7 RC and everything looks fine.

I'm running 3.5 on Vista Home Premium, and everything is fine. I see that Firefox has downloaded an update (presumably to 3.5.1) but it hasn't been applied yet, maybe I'll hold off on that...

Russ

Russ, I think you should upgrade to v3.5.1 for both the security issues it fixed and also because it fixed 22 bugs that had been reported in v3.5.

As I mentioned, I use 4 different forums that are powered by vBulletin software, AVS, DBS, Wildblue Uncensored and Wildblue World, and AVS is the only forum that gives me this problem...

I sent the AVS administrator a PM with all this info and asked him to look at my account here and see if there are any options he controls that can cause this problem. I've tried all the options available to me via UserCP, plus I use the same options on the other vBulletin forums and no Firefox option affects this problem...I run Firefox without any add-ons or plugins and IE8 with all the bells and whistles enabled...tried enabling all the bells and whistles in FF and that did not solve anything.

I also got feedback from the Firefox forum from users that have FF v3.5.1 and they see the option buttons also...that pretty much narrows it down, it's evidently not a Firefox 3.5.1 problem and not a problem with this board for other users...so far just me...so I don't have a clue and I'm afraid the administrator here will not be able to change anything...

Hopefully, someone else will experience this strange behavior on this forum and we can narrow down a cure...:o

The moderator on the Firefox forum came up with the solution of why I could not see the option buttons in the posts here.

He suggested to remove the items found in the Tools/Options/Content/Load Images Automatically "Exceptions" button. There were several hundred entries there, don't know how that list gets populated, but I removed them all and that solved the problem...I now see all the option buttons...I left James (the moderator) the following comment/question on the Firefox forum..

James!!! That was the problem!! Thanks for the tip...I've never added anything to that list...how does the sites get into that list anyway...they must be selected somehow, or come with the FF install package...does Adblock Plus put them in there?? That's the only add-on extension I use.

I hope you can provide info on how in the world those sites get into the list without any overt action from me (that I know of anyway).. ](*,)

Thanks again...made my day... :D

Has anyone in the Montgomery, Wetumpka or Prattville area gotten one of the SVS- AS-EQ1's.

If so, what did you think of it?

For those of you with Dish Net: The HD Platinum add-on is now free. It was a $10 add-on with 11 HD channels. You can call or do an online chat and ask them to change you to HD and Platinum rather than the Bronze, Silver or Gold. The new package started yesterday. Also, the Turbo HD only packages are no longer offered to new customers.

Anyone having trouble receiving wcov-20?

I am in Eufaula and cannot get WCOV tonight.

My friend up in Wetumpka says he can't pick up channels 20 and 8 tonight. 32 was gone also but is now back. Anyone know what is going on?

I can't get 20 or 32 tonight. I thought it was just me so I spent the past hour in my attic messing with the antenna. WSFA seems to be weaker tonight too. I bet it's the clouds. My Birmingham locals are weaker too.

WCOV was out tonight on Dish Network as well.

Anyone having trouble receiving wcov-20?
I can't get it either. But then I'm 220 miles away.

( :p )

jtrippe,

I just checked my signal levels (at 3:40 a.m.). 20 is missing in action, 32 is lower than normal and 12 is what it should be.

With the bad weather, I'm wondering if there were some lightning strikes that toasted 20.

At least you can get WAKA! :D

I'm looking for something I can add to my AVR as a source to tune in cable TV. I want to use it as backup when Satellite goes out.
Anything out there with a QAM tuner built in? VCR or DVD recorder?

Scott,

I take it that your display doesn't have a built in QAM tuner?

It does but it's a Mitsubishi and too much trouble to change over. I would rather keep it on the same source and let the AVR do the source switching.

Looks like my only choice is a TiVo box.

Still no WCOV through DiSH Network or OTA for me. I wish they would put a message on there website to inform viewers of the situation.

Looks like WCOV-DT is back.

Looks like WCOV-DT is back.

I just called my wife and she confirmed we have WCOV back as well. Wasn't able to check WNCF as the baby was crying so I'll have her check later. I don't get 32 very strong anyway because I use the back side of the antenna. I switched from a VIP 211 to a VIP 622 DVR this weekend and I think my signal strength actually went down a little. I also took out some splits and an RG 59 cable. My signal strength should have gotten better. Maybe it was the rainy weather this weekend affecting the signal strength.

My friend says 20 is back now, but he didn't mention 8 and I didn't think to ask. WCOV's signal is way down here in Ozark also at 15%. WSFA is cooking at 80%. Hope WCOV can up their signal so I can watch THIS TV better.

Does anyone know how long 32 (abc) is going to continue to broadcast on 22-2? Is it a long term proposition? I can receive 22-2 fine (xg 91 w/ a cm 7777; south of Auburn), but don't receive anything on 32.

jns82,

32 without the -1,-2,-3 is the analog transmission that was finally shut down on June 12th.

It should now be on 32-1, 32-2 and if they have a third subchannel 32-3. If you're picking it up on 22.2, then there must getting something else other than channel 32.

JimP: WNCF 32-1 and WBMM 22-2 are ABC. WNCF 32-2 and WBMM 22-1 are CW.

He's asking if they're going to stop showing ABC on 22-2. I would guess it's long-term, but the best way to find out would be calling the station.

- Trip

Trip,

Are they two autonomous entities or are they one and the same and transmit on two frequencies?

They're two separate stations, but owned by the same company. Or controlled by the same company, or something.

- Trip

I am in Eufaula and cannot get WCOV tonight.

I'm north of Montgomery. It appeared to be off the air last night. It's fine now.

Thanks JimP and Trip. I was not sufficiently clear on my question; Trip had it pegged.

Hey guys,
I've been following this blog for some time now and I think I made a cameo once during the 'big switch'!

My name is Drew Woods and I work at the Fox station, WCOV.

Let me tell you that we try very hard here to have the strongest signal possible. I saw some earlier posts about Sunday's little tragedy when we went to black. To give you a summary, we had a tube go out. Now, I'm no engineer but I'll tell ya what I know. We have 2 tubes powering our signal from our transmitter in Grady. And one went down which is why we were off air.

Anywho,
I'll try and stay current on these postings and offer whatever I can

Take care
-Drew

Thanks for the heads up Drew.

I saw a news clip on WSFA.com but didn't have time to read it about WCOV operating at reduced power. Is that old news?

Here it is.
http://www.wsfa.com/Global/story.asp?S=10848312

No it's not old news. And yes, we're at a reduced power. I'll have to talk to our chief engineer about why and what it means. My uneducated guess is that since the tube went out, we'll have to get another one and make sure it's working before we can rev up the power.

And I love the cows picture of the tower, that's a keeper

I guess I learned something. I did not know Transmitters still used Vacuum tubes.

Since I'm new to this blogging stuff, are there any other areas on this site that people post stuff that's pertinent to the Montgomery area (or other areas within our coverage)

Lemme know the cool places to go!

I guess I learned something. I did not know Transmitters still used Vacuum tubes.

Yep..most do.. in WAKA's case..3 of them..new replacements are almost $50k each installed. And they run on ~34,000 volts ..:eek:

http://www.thalesgroup.com/Portfolio/Security/IOT_TH_792/?pid=2290

The two red dots pictured are where the coolant hoses connect up..with about 16GPM of water going through the tube.

Ok, one correction I need to make is that we run on two tubes! and one went out. We'll have to wait until we can get a rep out there to the transmitter to get it fixed. And yes, it will be pricey! Anyone care to donate? Ha!

Ok, one correction I need to make is that we run on two tubes! and one went out. We'll have to wait until we can get a rep out there to the transmitter to get it fixed. And yes, it will be pricey! Anyone care to donate? Ha!

I support WCOV's advertisers whenever possible. I hope that is enough :D

Drew,

That second tube must have been having problems for a while. Now that its completely out, the occassional audio dropout is almost completely gone.

Yeah, I think it was old

I am using a Series 3 TIVO with OTA. I am now receiving Montgomery PBS (WAIQ) on channels 27-3,.27-4, and 27-5. I preiviously received WAIQ on Channels 26-1 thru 26-4. My TIVO program guide reflects programming under the 26 series channels rather than the 27 series. Anyone else experiencing the same?

edge

I have a S3 also.

Called Tivo week before last regarding this problem. They stil haven't fixed it. I'll call again.

JimP

Thanks for your reply. I opened a case number with Tivo and just emailed a followup. I also placed a voice message with WAIQ in case they have delayed in providing PSIP info up the line for their change to frequency 27.

edge,

I switched my antenna lead to go directly into my display's antenna input.

Entering 26.1 gets me WAIQ which would mean that their PSIP info is correct. Entering 27.5 got zip.

This isn't the first time Tivo has done something similar. I've gone though this several times with them with other station combination changes. Given the frequency of this happening, its obvious that they've got something screwed up in their software.

I got off the phone with them a few minutes ago and their rep instructed me to do another channel scan. That hasn't worked the other times I've had a similar problem but its possible that they've changed the logic in their firmware where this will work. I'll post if it does.

Looking at the bigger picture, the only show I watch on PBS is This Old House. So its not like they carry compelling programming any more.


Edit: Channel scan did not correct the problem.

The annoying thing is that this happens every few months but with different channel combinations. aaargh.

JimP

Thanks for the update. I too had done a channel scan with no change.

edge273,

I posted an inquiry on TIVO community and got this response. It sounds correct. I'll call TIVO again this afternoon.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7437843#post7437843

JimP

Good job JimP. I read your Tivo community reference. I think you are on tract. Thanks for the good work friend.

No it's not old news. And yes, we're at a reduced power. I'll have to talk to our chief engineer about why and what it means. My uneducated guess is that since the tube went out, we'll have to get another one and make sure it's working before we can rev up the power.

Thanks Drew. I live down in Ozark and have been unable to receive WCOV for a couple of weeks now. This explains it. I have raised and lowered my antenna trying to find the signal, so I have it back in original spot now. Only getting 20 to 25% before so that 1 tube is critical for me to receive you.

Thanks Drew. I live down in Ozark and have been unable to receive WCOV for a couple of weeks now. This explains it. I have raised and lowered my antenna trying to find the signal, so I have it back in original spot now. Only getting 20 to 25% before so that 1 tube is critical for me to receive you.

Yikes! We fixed the problem and replaced the tube and have been back at full power for a week or so. How was your signal before?

Thanks Drew for keeping us up to date on the issues with the tower.

In the past, other systems have gone out.

It gets frustrating when you think it might be your own equipment and you spend an entire afternoon moving, raising, lowering, your antenna, wires, cables, etc.

It would be great if all the channels would at least post to their network sites (like channel 12 did with the problem with channel 20) when there is an issue. It will save us a lot of grief from trying to fix it ourselves.

Does anyone know how long 32 (abc) is going to continue to broadcast on 22-2? Is it a long term proposition? I can receive 22-2 fine (xg 91 w/ a cm 7777; south of Auburn), but don't receive anything on 32.

did anyone ever answer this question?

I'd like to know too. I get a better signal from 22.2 and have set up season passes, but don't want to come home one day to find them gone.

Thanks Drew for keeping us up to date on the issues with the tower.

In the past, other systems have gone out.

It gets frustrating when you think it might be your own equipment and you spend an entire afternoon moving, raising, lowering, your antenna, wires, cables, etc.

It would be great if all the channels would at least post to their network sites (like channel 12 did with the problem with channel 20) when there is an issue. It will save us a lot of grief from trying to fix it ourselves.


Thanks for that tip, in the future, we'll try and put it up on our homepage. And yeah, I understand the whole 'afternoon at home trying to figure out antennaes, cables, connections, tuners, etc' problem. It's rather exhausting. I'm extremely cheap in my consumer nature and purchased an indoor/outdoor antenna from walmart and spent a good hour on a 20 foot extension ladder drilling it into a telephone pole, checking signals etc. And certain stations still aren't that strong. (this is in north prattville)

Let us know anything else we can do to help!

Well, we're right at our 4th anniversary of DT service.
A few of the first quotes from the forum after we took to air, originally on channel 55:

Anything new going on w/ WAKA going HD???

__________________________
Just for the fun of it I checked Channel 55...to by surprise Channel 55 HDTV is on the air . At present getting between 62 and 65 percent.

__________________________
CBS8 registering about 70% on my meter off Vaughn Road

__________________________

Great day for OTA in Montgomery. Thanks!

The picture on CSI looks great. There was some audio problems but things seem OK now.

Has anyone seen or heard anything recently about AT&T U-Verse coming to the Montgomery area?

Has anyone seen or heard anything recently about AT&T U-Verse coming to the Montgomery area?

I would not hold my breath, here..it is available in spotty areas, and there does not seem to be much push to make it available at that. I have a friend who works there,and cannot get it at his house. He says they just aren't worrying about areas that don't work. The headend engineer here tells me he can't get it at his house either. They tell me that I am +5000 feet from the V-RAD and thus can't get service either.

Bob,

Is it something about the technology or that they're only running main lines to denser populated areas?

Bob,

Is it something about the technology or that they're only running main lines to denser populated areas?


Jim, just my opinion, I surmise based on what inside people tell me..that coupled with the current economy,V-RAD to home (copper) distance limitations,only 1 HD channel at a time delivered, etc....that U-Verse just isn't ready for primetime.
Here, we have dual, redundant fiber feeds going to them out to a NOC in the (Midwest?) IIRC. They do call very quickly if any problems arise with our signal. Based on what I see from the re-trans agreement, subscriber numbers are quite low. The copper to home distance seems to be the main limitation here, so I would think the population density there in FunGomery (TM/copyright 1968 Mark@WAKA) would be even worse than here.

I did ask to see the local NOC, they wanted me to fill out several pages of paperwork that had to be approved in advance of any visit.

From the few that have it,and from the U-Verse engineers..I do hear that U-verse has the best quality of anyone compared to OTA.

There are a few threads here on AVS on U-Verse.

It's my understanding the pipe is already in place connecting Montgomery, Birmingham, Mobile, Atlanta.
I believe they are running at 3.2 Terabits Per Second over a single strand of single mode.

Saw my friend yesterday who works for AT&T engineering..he says they are moving towards VDSL2, which will then give up to 5000' on copper, and up to 30 mb/s eventually. They tried the install at his house but we unable to get solid service due to distance.

I'm right at 5000 from the Dalreda switch if they want a Guinna pig. :cool:

I have been trying for that myself with no luck. Oh well, at least Time-Warner takes care of me in that respect....

So, would this VDSL2 be used for a possible U-Verse roll out in the area or increasing there Fastaccess DSL service speeds (both of which I would be interested in)?

It's my understanding that they are in the process of rolling out fiber from the COs to the DSLAMs so that everyone will be in range.

Yes it's for TV with the possibility of 50 Mb

Unless you are too far from the DSLAM like I (+5000') and my U-Verse engineer friends are.:(

I have a Directv HR-21 and a Dish 622 both connected OTA.
On the 622 I have 89 to 96% signal strength and it's unwatchable.
The HR-21 is a little better but not much.
Watching the HR-21 signal meter it goes from 97% to an occasional dip in the 70s.

Mean while WCOV has a signal in the mid 80's to a peak of 94 and the picture is rock solid.


So WSFA how smart was that channel 13 decision?

I have a Directv HR-21 and a Dish 622 both connected OTA.
On the 622 I have 89 to 96% signal strength and it's unwatchable.
The HR-21 is a little better but not much.
Watching the HR-21 signal meter it goes from 97% to an occasional dip in the 70s.

Mean while WCOV has a signal in the mid 80's to a peak of 94 and the picture is rock solid.


So WSFA how smart was that channel 13 decision?

Scott,
It probably looked like a good idea on paper, but just didn't turn out the way they thought it would.

What kind of antennas and amps are you using? Do you have any splitters for multiple TVs? If so, what kind and how many. By the way, some splittlers and combiners don't do VHF so you have to watch for that.

I have a Directv HR-21 and a Dish 622 both connected OTA.
On the 622 I have 89 to 96% signal strength and it's unwatchable.
The HR-21 is a little better but not much.
Watching the HR-21 signal meter it goes from 97% to an occasional dip in the 70s.

Mean while WCOV has a signal in the mid 80's to a peak of 94 and the picture is rock solid.


So WSFA how smart was that channel 13 decision?

I'm in south Clay country, about 60 air-miles from the WSFA transmitter tower and my 622 gets a 100% signal...I have to attenuate my OTA signals with a splitter to avoid swamping the receiver.

But, of course, I have the best Winegard VHF/UHF combo antenna I could find...so your problem is all related to how good your antenna performs with VHF signals..:)

So WSFA how smart was that channel 13 decision?
I'm confused, did I miss something. I though WSFA was on 12.

jtrippe, checked your site out, very nice. I'll definitely register when you get the forums up. Great idea as well.

rolltide,

Channel 12 is transmitting on digital 13 which makes it a VHF channel.

Many of us who had no problem getting them with our UHF antennas had to go out and get new VHF antennas.

Jason......nice website.

WSFA is on channel 12.

- Trip

Maybe I didn't do a good job of making my self clear.
I have a higher signal strength on WSFA than any other station and the worst reception.

WAKA is in the 70s and is flawless.

If it was a splitter or the antenna wouldn't it effect the signal strength?

I think it's a case of the VHF blues in the metro area.

rolltide,

Channel 12 is transmitting on digital 13 which makes it a VHF channel.

Many of us who had no problem getting them with our UHF antennas had to go out and get new VHF antennas.

Jason......nice website.
I understand all that, I thought they were on digital 12, not 13 though.

I understand all that, I thought they were on digital 12, not 13 though.

Brain cells must have taken Friday off. You're right.

Maybe I didn't do a good job of making my self clear.
I have a higher signal strength on WSFA than any other station and the worst reception.

WAKA is in the 70s and is flawless.

If it was a splitter or the antenna wouldn't it effect the signal strength?

I think it's a case of the VHF blues in the metro area.

This is a widespread problem for WSFA unless (a) you are out in the middle of nowhere and (b) you have a big-a outside antenna. If you meet a and b (sometimes, but not usually a OR b), you are probably fine. Of course, that dwindles down the possibilities quite a bit.
On another note, is anyone having trouble with RF 32? I notice signal but no information being sent on 32-1 or 32-2. Seems to have started on Saturday.

Yes, I also had the problem with 32-01 last nite. Haven't tried it today.

This is a widespread problem for WSFA unless (a) you are out in the middle of nowhere and (b) you have a big-a outside antenna. If you meet a and b (sometimes, but not usually a OR b), you are probably fine. Of course, that dwindles down the possibilities quite a bit.
On another note, is anyone having trouble with RF 32? I notice signal but no information being sent on 32-1 or 32-2. Seems to have started on Saturday.

I'm not getting a picture on 32-1 right now but have no problems with 22-2. I had never used 22-2 until I lost signal on 32-1 during the Alabama/Virginia Tech football game and switched to 22-2, which was perfect. I've been using 22-2 ever since. (Just wish WSFA would go back to a UHF frequency-I know there's little or no chance of that happening). Why is WNCF transmitting (or retransmitting) on 22-2?

I'm not getting a picture on 32-1 right now but have no problems with 22-2. I had never used 22-2 until I lost signal on 32-1 during the Alabama/Virginia Tech football game and switched to 22-2, which was perfect. I've been using 22-2 ever since. (Just wish WSFA would go back to a UHF frequency-I know there's little or no chance of that happening). Why is WNCF transmitting (or retransmitting) on 22-2?

In an effort to cover the market. Each 22 and 32 are running very low
power and are using the buddy system to minimize this handicap (each tower is in a different part of the DMA).

Is it just me or is WSFA HD quality not as good as my other locals. I am sorry if this has been answered. I have a strong signal but there seems to be a lot of compression artifacts that my other locals do not have.

Is it just me or is WSFA HD quality not as good as my other locals. I am sorry if this has been answered. I have a strong signal but there seems to be a lot of compression artifacts that my other locals do not have.

I don't think it's just you, but I also don't think it's just WSFA. I see a lot of macro-blocking on NBC whether it's WSFA OTA or other NBC affiliates via cable or Dishnetwork. I think it's just the network feed.

-WIrving

I don't think it's just you, but I also don't think it's just WSFA. I see a lot of macro-blocking on NBC whether it's WSFA OTA or other NBC affiliates via cable or Dishnetwork. I think it's just the network feed.

-WIrving

WSFA is not devoting a reasonable amount of it's bandwidth to 12-1.
In the past, we have wondered why this is. You can see lots of junk
during transitions or fast action on their local news as well. I'll let WACKY
engineer report specifics after he looks at everyone's streams.

WSFA is not devoting a reasonable amount of it's bandwidth to 12-1.
In the past, we have wondered why this is. You can see lots of junk
during transitions or fast action on their local news as well. I'll let WACKY
engineer report specifics after he looks at everyone's streams.

Their quality is C-R-A-P!! Why would I want an HD TV (which I don't have yet) when it looks like they have everyone in the building pee on it before it goes to the transmitter on my 27" analog TV?! My Netflix internet stream (which looks really good--not quite DVD-quality) is better. Not to mention that occasionally their video signal (net & local) appears to blend the fields, giving it a 30p look. Dilettantes!

I haven't ranted in a while. I feel better. :D

WSFA is not devoting a reasonable amount of it's bandwidth to 12-1.
In the past, we have wondered why this is. You can see lots of junk
during transitions or fast action on their local news as well. I'll let WACKY
engineer report specifics after he looks at everyone's streams.

This has been covered here at least a couple of times before... There are a lot of factors that can determine the perceived quality of digital video, the bitrate is pretty important. You can't make a comparison solely on bitrate, for example, the quality and age of the encoder can make a difference, and there are techniques (like statistical multiplexing, which basically allows a higher priority stream to "steal" bandwidth from a lower priority stream) that can make a program with a lower average bitrate look better than it would if the bitrate were fixed at the lower rate.

With the current digital broadcast standard, we have approximately 19 megabits of bandwidth to work with. Everything we send out-video streams, audio streams, program guide and rating information, everything has to fit in that 19 megabits. I'm using a program called TSReader that is capable of looking at the entire stream and showing approximately how much bandwidth is being assigned to each part of the stream, so at WAKA-DT 8's request, here's a list of the local stations, along with the approximate bandwidth assigned to their primary stream:

WAKA 8 - 16 megabits
WSFA 12 - 11 megabits
WCOV 20 - 13 megabits
WAIQ 26 - 7 megabits
WNCF 32 - 15 megabits
WFRZ 34 - 15 megabits
WMCF 45 - 4 megabits

Thank you all. I never thought I would see the day wsfa is the worst picture in town

Yes, there are lots of factors, however it is not subjective. Football sucks on channel 12. It smears and blocks horribly. Every week, every game, all game. It's a complete mess and I have quit watching channel 12 completey. Make a post here when they get it together.

This has been covered here at least a couple of times before... There are a lot of factors that can determine the perceived quality of digital video, the bitrate is pretty important. You can't make a comparison solely on bitrate, for example, the quality and age of the encoder can make a difference, and there are techniques (like statistical multiplexing, which basically allows a higher priority stream to "steal" bandwidth from a lower priority stream) that can make a program with a lower average bitrate look better than it would if the bitrate were fixed at the lower rate.

With the current digital broadcast standard, we have approximately 19 megabits of bandwidth to work with. Everything we send out-video streams, audio streams, program guide and rating information, everything has to fit in that 19 megabits. I'm using a program called TSReader that is capable of looking at the entire stream and showing approximately how much bandwidth is being assigned to each part of the stream, so at WAKA-DT 8's request, here's a list of the local stations, along with the approximate bandwidth assigned to their primary stream:

WAKA 8 - 16 megabits
WSFA 12 - 11 megabits
WCOV 20 - 13 megabits
WAIQ 26 - 7 megabits
WNCF 32 - 15 megabits
WFRZ 34 - 15 megabits
WMCF 45 - 4 megabits

I am so glad WCOV has the 11:20 SEC game.WSFA had them up till this year. Great job yesterday WCOV! ROLL TIDE

I am so glad WCOV has the 11:20 SEC game.WSFA had them up till this year. Great job yesterday WCOV! ROLL TIDE

And their HD really looked good...:)

I dislike it when there is some big game that I want to watch on WSFA. Tonight is a good example (NYG@DAL). I can deal with the sub-standard HD picture to an extent. What I absolutely hate is when Rich Thomas thinks that entire screen needs to have maps plastered all over it. I know it is raining somewhere in Alabama tonight...I imagine Rich and crew are giddy with excitement knowing they get to have fun with their graphics tonight.

I dislike it when there is some big game that I want to watch on WSFA. Tonight is a good example (NYG@DAL). I can deal with the sub-standard HD picture to an extent. What I absolutely hate is when Rich Thomas thinks that entire screen needs to have maps plastered all over it. I know it is raining somewhere in Alabama tonight...I imagine Rich and crew are giddy with excitement knowing they get to have fun with their graphics tonight.

At least 12 got rid of the maps quickly...channel 13, B'ham, kept the flash flood warning map on screen for almost the entire game...

I switched back and forth...stayed with 12 after the maps were removed because it was raining so hard here that I would get rain-fade on Dish channels for a minute or so...No rain-fade on 12 (OTA)!:)

Anyone with a Dish 722 DVR and OTA.

I presume that OTA is going to look better than their LIL satellite version. Can you compare the picture/sound quality for the locals.

Also, do you happen to know which satellite the locals come in on. I've got a western installation plus a 61.5 dish. In order to get 61.5 to do right, I had to block one of the lnbs while doing a check switch. I'm trying to find out if the one I blocked and is now not functional the same one I need for locals.

I have a 622 and OTA; usually OTA is slightly better PQ, imo.

The SD version of locals are on sat 110, the HD version of locals are on sat 129.

Montgomery HD locals are on a 129 spot beam and SDs are on a 110 spot beam.

http://dishuser.org/129list.php

Turned in to watch new NCIS. The incompetents are at it again, weather map up again. I will wait till this season comes out on DVD. Braves and poker are on.

i give up this will be my last post. .

you lie! :d

I have a 622 and OTA; usually OTA is slightly better PQ, imo.

The SD version of locals are on sat 110, the HD version of locals are on sat 129.

I don't know why I didn't see that when I replied. I think I need new glasses. Sorry for the double post.

I have a 622 and OTA; usually OTA is slightly better PQ, imo.

The SD version of locals are on sat 110, the HD version of locals are on sat 129.


That figures, I blocked 129 so that 61.5 would take priority for many of the same channels. 61.5 is a stronger satellite and shouldn't have as much rainfade.

Anyone with a Dish 722 DVR and OTA.

I presume that OTA is going to look better than their LIL satellite version. Can you compare the picture/sound quality for the locals.


I use my 622 in single mode and put the OTA side-by-side (PIP) with the Dish channel, also use "Swap" to switch tuners in full screen mode and can not see enough difference to matter...I use HDMI from receiver to TV.

The main difference I see is that OTA is 7 seconds ahead of Dish signal...while in PIP mode for the game Sunday night I watched the play clocks and the OTA signal is 7 seconds ahead of the Dish signal...that's how long it takes for the signal to be sent to Dish's uplink center (in Texas I think), encoded to MPEG4, uplinked to 129 and downlinked to me and MPEG4 decoded.:)

That figures, I blocked 129 so that 61.5 would take priority for many of the same channels. 61.5 is a stronger satellite and shouldn't have as much rainfade.

Not that much, when you consider dish size and the frequency involved, as well
as at some point there is just too much rain no matter what at times. Did find out from someone who knows the spot beam doesn't really get up here.
So I just won;t have the Big8 up here at my house..

Bob,
I have an oversize dish for 61.5. That reduced the rainfade for the satellite channels I watch the most.

4bama,
I've rewritten this post a couple of times as I remember the additional reasons that I put up the 61.5 dish. In order for me to get the strongest signals on 110 and 119, signal strength on 129 suffered. So this combination of 110, 119 and 61.5 gives me the strongest signals all the way around. This was about a year ago. If I recall correctly, there was talk about Dish replacing their 129 satellite. Do you know if they actually did this? If so, it would be worth while for me to try it again. Are you getting any dropouts from 129?

I have a small problem with pixalation on Brighthouse. I think I have located problem. Coax into back of dvr. When I touch it the picture freezes and also picture sometimes on lower channels not clear and when touched they clear up. I found it was loose and I tightened it but still screws up every now and then. I guess I will call them to replace coax connection:eek:

This was about a year ago. If I recall correctly, there was talk about Dish replacing their 129 satellite. Do you know if they actually did this? If so, it would be worth while for me to try it again. Are you getting any dropouts from 129?

They did replace the satellite at 129 this past spring (if you go to, say, satelliteguys.us and look for "ciel 2" (the name of the new sat), you'll find lots of stuff). Bottom line is, the old satellite at 129 was dying - it was literally wobbling - and had weaker, sporadic signals. Ciel-2 is great. I put up a dish for 61.5 a year or two ago for the same reasons you did, but I've covered up that LNB and am back to 110/119/129.

In fact, the Montgomery HD locals that Dish made available a few months ago are only on the 129 satellite, not on 61.5...here's a link to the spotbeam map showing where those signals are available:

http://www.satelliteguys.us/thelist/index.php?search=dnall&sub=true&sort=&order=&beamMap=CIEL2_SB43.jpg

-WIrving

you lie! :d

the last person who said that had to apologize to god.

the last person who said that had to apologize to god.

Oh I do that everyday...:)

...at some point there is just too much rain no matter what at times. Did find out from someone who knows the spot beam doesn't really get up here.
So I just won;t have the Big8 up here at my house..

It might be worth another look for you. I live right on the northeast part of the yellow line of the Ciel2 spotbeam 50 coverage map (see http://www.satelliteguys.us/thelist/index.php?search=dn129&sub=true&sort=&order=&beamMap=CIEL2_SB50.jpg ), and I get the Mobile locals pretty well. The spotbeam signal is, of course, significantly weaker than the full continental US transponders for me, but it's surprisingly good considering how far toward the edge of the coverage area I am. It still only drops out during fairly heavy rain.

If you're in Charlotte, then you might be no worse off than I am if you "moved" to Montgomery...you look to be a little bit inside the yellow line of the Ciel2 spotbeam 43 map (URL is a couple of posts before this one), so you might actually do better than me.

-WIrving

When Montgomery first got locals in HD they were on the 61.5 and the 129. I get the 129 but my parents can only get the 61.5 because of trees. We both had HD locals when they became available but about a week or two later my parents lost theirs. Dish couldn't explain why they suddenly removed the HD locals from 61.5. Good thing I put that CM 4228 in their attic.

Bob,
I have an oversize dish for 61.5. That reduced the rainfade for the satellite channels I watch the most.

4bama,
I've rewritten this post a couple of times as I remember the additional reasons that I put up the 61.5 dish. In order for me to get the strongest signals on 110 and 119, signal strength on 129 suffered. So this combination of 110, 119 and 61.5 gives me the strongest signals all the way around. This was about a year ago. If I recall correctly, there was talk about Dish replacing their 129 satellite. Do you know if they actually did this? If so, it would be worth while for me to try it again. Are you getting any dropouts from 129?

Yes, 129 was replaced and the new bird has much more transmitter power..as a matter of fact, during the recent heavy rains we had I would lose 110 and 119 before 129 would fade..also the spot beam transponders on 129 for Montgomery locals should give you the best signal strengths now...:)

Is anyone else having problems with WAKA's OTA? I'm in Montgomery and the signal is fluctuating from 0 to 92%.

Just checked and waka OTA is fine for me in montgomery

Dropped dead for me during half time.

Watching buckeyes, but just checked and waka is working for me

C'Mon WCOV-FOX flip the HD switch....do you have to be told every single Sunday?

Geez, I'm glad those amateurs at WCOV do not have the NFL double-header today as somebody is asleep at the HD switch. The professionals at WAKA do a much, much better job keeping their HD signal on. The NFL on CBS gets my seal of approval, as does NASCAR on WNCF.

The WCOV amateurs need to learn how to run a respectable television station. They do an absolutely horrible job.

Easy, there is more to life than HD! At least you can see it. Wcov fox and Waka cbs have the best HD in Montgomery. I for one thank them.

Wcov fox and Waka cbs have the best HD in Montgomery. I for one thank them.

Did you watch the game today? You cannot claim WCOV has the best HD when the fact is they continuously prove themselves incapable of broadcasting an entire game in HD.

Just because you can see it does not make it the best.

I agree with you about WAKA.

I dont care for NFL football until playoffs. Now if they mess up Bones or Fringe or 24, I am with you! Life is to short to sweat the small stuff. I dont want to end up like Grand PA.:eek::D:D

That's cool. I just do not understand how people seem to think they are obligated to thank businesses for poor service.

Well WCOV was one of the first hd stations along with Waka and they have always been great with keeping us informed of problems they were having and changes. Remember this is all new for them also. I appreciate your opinion and feel your pain.

NEW for them? They have had HD for over four years now. NEW?

new technology! new for us also. Has it been 4 years? Wow time passes fast when you are having fun or when you get old :D

I don't consider HD new technology anymore considering it has been around since the 1998. Now, it maybe new to some stations that are just now upgrading but, not new technology IMO. Definitely not new to WCOV either, they should be use to "flipping the switch" by now.

Didn't we already have this discussion a few months back where it was brought out that its a lot more that just flipping a switch?

I don't consider HD new technology anymore considering it has been around since the 1998. .

Yea, kinda like Windows 3.0 is just like Vista...;)

FYI, WAKA is on it's 2nd run of HD equipment.

Didn't we already have this discussion a few months back where it was brought out that its a lot more that just flipping a switch?

Well whatever. It is obvious that WCOV
cannot get it right.

Hey guys,
Sorry we went down the other night and bdfox18doe was right. It was an equipment thing. What happened was that our Fox splicer froze so that we could not get out of Fox network and into our local system. What normally happens at 9pm is we switch out of Fox to our local news but the other night, it wouldn't let us do that. Long story short, new splicer comes in next week. Until then, Fox and our chief engineer said we should be fine. It comes down to these darn computers and how they're the root of all evil.

We'll keep you posted as the new equipment comes in

I dont care for NFL football until playoffs. Now if they mess up Bones or Fringe or 24, I am with you! Life is to short to sweat the small stuff. I dont want to end up like Grand PA.:eek::D:D

For some reason that brought this to mind:

“I want to die sleeping peacefully like my grandfather and not screaming like the passengers in his car.”

:D

Imagine that. It is Sunday and WCOV does not have the HD switch flipped. The pre-game show is broadcast in HD (I know that for a fact)--but not on good ol' trusty WCOV.

It is really amazing how that station cannot pull it together on Sunday. I watch many other shows on that station throughout the week and very rarely have a problem. Every single Sunday, however, they crash and burn.

Good thing WCOV doesn't really have a good game on today. I'll watch the Big 8 (WAKA). I know they got their stuff together! They truly do "Kick A**!

It was in HD for about 10 minutes, then off again. What a pathetic tv station.

The pre-game show is broadcast in HD (I know that for a fact)--but not on good ol' trusty WCOV. I!

To be exact, pregame studio show is (or should be.. WCOV) upconverted widescreen, FOX has not yet upgraded it to HD.

But you are correct, no excuse for this all the time. I'd be Po'd too..It does annoy those of us who actually take its serious.

It was like that yesterday during sec game with scroll below saying not able to show in HD due to tech problems also during fox news. I just checked and was on for now. Probably another tube blown aay Drew!!!!!!Better be on tomorrow night or else. You Know this is why I miss the days of the xxxxxxxxxx when I xxxxxxxxx all the networks free in clear on the xxxxx.Thanks bdfox18doe

Okay, my WNCF-HD channel is totally unwatchable (severe pixelation and no sound). The SD channel is skipping out occasionally too. Is it like that for everybody, or is it the cable company screwing it up? (Knology) ??

Thanks...It will help when I call to complain! :-)

wncf ON brighthouse and OTA OK

I just called Knology. They know channel 901 is screwed up and are, of course, "working on it". I get the feeling it won't work till next Tuesday since Monday is a holiday.

I just called Knology. They know channel 901 is screwed up and are, of course, "working on it". I get the feeling it won't work till next Tuesday since Monday is a holiday.

Its been like that since yesterday on Knology. Yes, OTA is fine on 22.2. Can't pick up 32 anymore.

Its been like that since yesterday on Knology. Yes, OTA is fine on 22.2. Can't pick up 32 anymore.

Just checked and ABCHD is working again on Knology.

Imagine that. It is Sunday and WCOV does not have the HD switch flipped. The pre-game show is broadcast in HD (I know that for a fact)--but not on good ol' trusty WCOV.

It is really amazing how that station cannot pull it together on Sunday. I watch many other shows on that station throughout the week and very rarely have a problem. Every single Sunday, however, they crash and burn.

Good thing WCOV doesn't really have a good game on today. I'll watch the Big 8 (WAKA). I know they got their stuff together! They truly do "Kick A**!

shoncb,
From our end, there's nothing wrong. NFL comes from Fox in HD and we pass that along to you, therefore, if it's not HD then it may be something else in the system but the signal bypasses all of our SD equipment, no switching involved except for inserting commercials. How are you receiving us? Over The Air should be in HD, and I watched OTA NFL yesterday in HD fine - so let me know how you are receiving it and we'll get to the bottom of it.
-Drew

shoncb,
From our end, there's nothing wrong. NFL comes from Fox in HD and we pass that along to you, therefore, if it's not HD then it may be something else in the system but the signal bypasses all of our SD equipment, no switching involved except for inserting commercials. How are you receiving us? Over The Air should be in HD, and I watched OTA NFL yesterday in HD fine - so let me know how you are receiving it and we'll get to the bottom of it.
-Drew

Fox20 OTA Sunday for Falcons/49er game looked great here...Fox6 via Dish from B'ham also looked great...:)

I can't speak to whether the game was in HD or not--I didn't watch it. If WCOV shows a game next Sunday that I want to watch, I'll comment as soon as it is not in HD.

Receiving via Knology.

4Bama,
How did you wind up with a 70' tower? Must be nice.

4Bama,
How did you wind up with a 70' tower? Must be nice.

The folks that built my house in 1982 installed the tower/antenna/rotor system because back then no Dish/DirecTV or cable here in the outback.

We bought the house in 1995 and I installed the old 10' satellite dish analog system to complement the tower system. I could rotate the tower antenna to Atlanta and pick up all their stations. Added Dish Network system in 2003.

Three years ago the antenna on the tower had finally rotted all the coax connections and I called a big bucket truck here and installed the best Winegard I could find.

The 70' tower is all that has not been replaced from the original...it's solid as a rock and I was very fortunate that the original homeowners installed it.. and I "inherited" it.:)

The folks that built my house in 1982 installed the tower/antenna/rotor system because back then no Dish/DirecTV or cable here in the outback.

We bought the house in 1995 and I installed the old 10' satellite dish analog system to complement the tower system. I could rotate the tower antenna to Atlanta and pick up all their stations. Added Dish Network system in 2003.

Three years ago the antenna on the tower had finally rotted all the coax connections and I called a big bucket truck here and installed the best Winegard I could find.

The 70' tower is all that has not been replaced from the original...it's solid as a rock and I was very fortunate that the original homeowners installed it.. and I "inherited" it.:)

How did the transition to digital impact your Atlanta OTA reception?
I think we are on a few cable systems up your way with the Atlanta CBS affiliate.

I was very fortunate that the original homeowners installed it.. and I "inherited" it.

You bet! That stuff is about 150.00 a 10' section now and your top section is a double that.

How did the transition to digital impact your Atlanta OTA reception?
I think we are on a few cable systems up your way with the Atlanta CBS affiliate.


After I got Dish Network I positioned my antenna toward Montgomery and left it there. I pick up Columbus, Ga OK off a side lobe of my antenna but haven't bothered with Atlanta. TBS was the main channel I looked at from Atlanta (UHF-17) before I got Dish.

My rotor is getting pretty old (should have replaced it when I installed the Winegard, but didn't) and gets cranky during wet weather, so I leave it pointed at Montgomery...;)

Hey, does anyone know if Charter still has the locals in HD unencrypted? I am upgrading to a new tv that has a built in QAM tuner and was hoping I'd be able to atleast get the locals in HD for free and hopefully other channels.

phylly

Go over to jason's website linked to a few post up and you'll find a section on the QAM channels for the local cable companies.

It's a little hard to find so I'll post a link.

http://mtrtest.wordpress.com/tv-links/cable-and-satellite-providers/charter-qam-channels/

Brighthouse ESPN OFF in Millbrook HELP HELP

Brighthouse ESPN OFF in Millbrook HELP HELP

OH NO. It is off on Knology in Prattville too! The SD is on but ESPN HD is off. I hope that gets fixed before 6:30!

ESPD HD off here in Wetumpka as well.

Working on Dish

ESPN HD is back on Knology....hope it is restored for y'all on Brighthouse.

I'm in Birmingham and the pregame was blacked out on DirecTV for some reason. 206 was off but the MPEG2 feed on 73 was on. Weird.

The game on ABC was running long and the games to follow on regional ABC were switched temporarily to ESPN, ESPN2 and ESPNU....ABC had a crawler that explained this...the blackout on ESPN was because the regional ABC game that was temporarily switched to us was not authorized for our viewing area...

As soon as the game on ABC ended all regional games were switched back to ABC and ESPN returned to normal programming...

Bama fans would have stormed the ESPN studios if that was not done...:D

I was in the car! :D:D:D

I was over at a friends house watching the Alabama game last night.

Her Dish box was set to ESPN but it seemed that the game was in SD while some of the commercials were in HD. Was that the same for the rest of you?

I was over at a friends house watching the Alabama game last night.

Her Dish box was set to ESPN but it seemed that the game was in SD while some of the commercials were in HD. Was that the same for the rest of you?

My ESPN via Dish was in HD for both the game and the commercials...are you sure she did not have the ESPN-SD channel selected? Both channels are available and if you happen to tune the receiver to the SD channel then that's what you get..

If not, the game looked great in HD and I could not see any difference in quality between the commercials and the game....both looked great.:)

I watched it on Dish but I had it in Side by Side with the race on the other side.
So I'm not much help. But I have my SD set up with bars so if it was in SD I would have noticed.

Saints game on Fox (82.1) in beautiful HD via Knology, Other than the fact that the chips and salsa has run out, I don't see a problem. Anyone else?

Pretty good in Millbrook ota and Brighthouse

I missed House this week because baseball game ran long. I found this site to watch it in case anyone else needs it
http://housemdvideos.com/seasons/video.php?s=06&e=06

You can get House and many, many more current and old TV shows and movies at Hula.com.

Yea the wife missed Cold Case from baseball I believe but I couldn't find it on line.

I missed House this week because baseball game ran long. I found this site to watch it in case anyone else needs it
http://housemdvideos.com/seasons/video.php?s=06&e=06

I got lucky. Had the Tivo set to also record the program that follows House.