Is there a way to send channel 6 an email other than to the newsroom. Combed their site and nothing. I want to ask them about this from their site:

"High Definition:
WRGB was the first station in Albany to transmit HDTV over the air. As a part of
the transition to digital television broadcasters are required to operate two
transmitters, one analog and one digital. Our analog signal is on VHF channel 6;
the digital transmitter is on UHF channel 39. VHF signals tend to travel beyond
hills better than UHF. For this reason we have constructed a taller tower to make
it possible for most locations that can receive channel 6 to receive our UHF
HDTV signal. At some point in the future analog transmitters will be turned off.
WRGB has opted to return to channel 6 after analog transmissions have ended.
If you are considering installing an over the air antenna for HDTV, you may want
to include channel 6 capability. The Dish Network does not have plans to carry
the Albany local stations in Hi-Def via satellite; DirecTV has announced an HDTV
local station plan for launch in 2006 that should include Albany stations. If you
want CBS in HD, you must have your own over the air antenna, subscribe to
Time Warner cable, or be located within one of the Adelphia franchise areas."

I am curious why they would say this when channel 10 & 13 are on Dish in hi-def and channel 23 was recently uplinked and may be coming soon. This comes from their memo on satellite waivers which basically says you have a better chance of hitting the billion dollar lottery than getting a waiver from them.

Like every year Time Warner has raised their rates again.

Soon enough their subscribers will be dropping them like flies!!!!

What comes around goes around!!!

Will Verizon spur cable TV rate war? -- Page 1 -- Times Union - Albany NY: http://timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=772317&category=BUSINESS

The TU article makes it seem like FiOS TV will become available in smAlbany NY sometime during the next two years.

Given the arrival of Sematech & AMD in the near future we certainly have become a high-tech region.

The possibility of losing a good portion of their base of 400,000 subscribers cannot make Time Warner very happy.

The way I look at it, TW has held a lock on the Cable TV market for way too long and I'm glad to see a little competition coming to this region.

Did anyone read today's article in the Eagle about the Albnny stations - I had no idea things were that bad. You would think freedom would want the income from a retrans deal.

David - regarding overlap with CT stations. I can get many hartford and new haven analog stations (very snowy but I can get them) - but cannot get a single Springfield station or CT digital station. One night I briefly got 33 WSFB. I had expected to get wwlp when they boasted power - according to tvfool the noise level for that station should be 0.0 .

Like every year Time Warner has raised their rates again.

Soon enough their subscribers will be dropping them like flies!!!!

What comes around goes around!!!

Will Verizon spur cable TV rate war? -- Page 1 -- Times Union - Albany NY: http://timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=772317&category=BUSINESS

Ya, its pathetic when they continue to up prices but do not continue to provide higher quality service. very frustrating... And that $99/month deal is a farse, because they charge extra for the boxes, and fees, and tax, so by the time you are done it's $140...

Did anyone read today's article in the Eagle about the Albnny stations - I had no idea things were that bad. You would think freedom would want the income from a retrans deal.No. Could you provide a summary?

No. Could you provide a summary?or a link to...

Are any of you guys using a standalone OTA HD receiver?

Did anyone read today's article in the Eagle about the Albnny stations - I had no idea things were that bad. You would think freedom would want the income from a retrans deal.

David - regarding overlap with CT stations. I can get many hartford and new haven analog stations (very snowy but I can get them) - but cannot get a single Springfield station or CT digital station. One night I briefly got 33 WSFB. I had expected to get wwlp when they boasted power - according to tvfool the noise level for that station should be 0.0 .

Glad to see you're still plugging away at it. Thanks for the response.

BTW here is the link to the article:

http://www.berkshireeagle.com/ci_11748687?IADID=Search-www.berkshireeagle.com-www.berkshireeagle.com

Are any of you guys using a standalone OTA HD receiver?

I use the Samsung DTB-H260F.
Anyone else using this box?
If you are, do you have issues with the detailed info on some stations not showing up until the programs half over?
Do stations send out the detail info differently then the program name?

6.2 almost always has the detail, 10.3 most of the time too.
All the others are just the program name no detail until 20 minutes into a half hour show.
Could it be an issue with the box?
Just seems funny I get the program name but no detail.

No. Could you provide a summary?


Summary: channel 10 has filed for chapter 11
channel 13 fired 17 members of its staff, including some that have been there for 20 years - some think some of the firings are also politically motivated - ultra conservative ownership - more moderate news casters
channel 6 fired staff and closed news bureaus

not in the article channel 23's owners Newport are in serious financial trouble - Variety TV just tanked - that is 4 for 4 major networks in the area in trouble.

Sorry, I did not provide a link, because I read it in the physical paper on Sunday. One of the more interesting articles about the local tv stations.

WXXA HD is now lit on DISH Network. Guide is not populating properly, but the channel is there. The news is on now. Now all we need it Channel 6 and life will be much better.

I use the Samsung DTB-H260F.
Anyone else using this box?
If you are, do you have issues with the detailed info on some stations not showing up until the programs half over?
Do stations send out the detail info differently then the program name?

6.2 almost always has the detail, 10.3 most of the time too.
All the others are just the program name no detail until 20 minutes into a half hour show.
Could it be an issue with the box?
Just seems funny I get the program name but no detail.Yes, the program names and the description text are contained in different PSIP tables. It shouldn't take more than a minute for detail info (when sent, because it is optional) to be available.

All the gory details can be found here: http://www.atsc.org/standards/a65.php

Thanks!

DISH Network & DirecTv tesified before congress about this. Apparently they're asking for similar things, namely loosening DMA rules in rural areas and having Congress mandate reasonable retransmission rates and loosening must carry rules.

Charles Ergin testified before Congress on 2/24 at the Subcommittee on Communications, Technology, and the Internet Committee on Energy and Commerce regarding the Reauthorization of the Satellite Home Viewer Extension and Reauthorization Act. He makes some interesting points and I hope they're listening.

Of particular interest (to me) regarding retransmission agreements:

"On retrans reform – a broadcaster used to negotiate with a single cable company and the leverage was relatively equal. But, today, DISH customers are held hostage, as broadcasters play their local monopoly off multiple pay-TV providers. In 2008 alone, consumers lost programming in approximately 15 percent of our markets because of retrans disputes. This is a huge increase over prior years, and the problem keeps getting worse. Today, stations in seven of our markets remain down because of unreasonable demands from Fisher Communications. Yet broadcasters provide the same content for free on the Internet and to those lucky enough to live within the shrinking areas of digital over-the-air coverage.

Because the broadcasters got their spectrum for free, I still think retrans should be free – but I understand I’m in the minority on that. So, first option, create a national retrans rate, which would apply to all broadcasters and all pay-TV providers. Treat a monopoly like a monopoly. Satellite providers already pay a fixed, per-subscriber copyright royalty rate, and I see no reason why a similar concept can’t work for retrans. Or, second option, create an actual market. If a broadcaster threatens to drop programming, pay-TV providers should be able to bring in a nearby affiliate to fill the gap. Consumers should never have to wonder what happened to Sunday Night Football."

Full text from Ergin here:

http://energycommerce.house.gov/Pres...mony_ergen.pdf

More here:

http://tech.yahoo.com/news/nm/20090224/tc_nm/us_satellite_congress_2

Ergen made a lot of sense. Who know maybe we will get Boston stations on sat.

Ergen made a lot of sense. Who know maybe we will get Boston stations on sat.

That would be nice, maybe a Springfield or Hartford station also.

Just wanted to ask as a sanity check if anyone else had trouble last night with 6-1 OTA reception.

I realize usually these problems are not at the source but since all of the other Albany signals came in great (as they generally do) when I checked during the 10PM hour while Eleventh Hour aired. My CSI recording had so many dropouts that it was only 8 minutes long, and since the problems continued during Eleventh Hour I stopped the recording.

Perhaps one of the tuners on my HDHomerun is bad, but it was fine the hour before as it was used to record American Idol.

Thanks in advance.

Just wanted to ask as a sanity check if anyone else had trouble last night with 6-1 OTA reception.

I realize usually these problems are not at the source but since all of the other Albany signals came in great (as they generally do) when I checked during the 10PM hour while Eleventh Hour aired. My CSI recording had so many dropouts that it was only 8 minutes long, and since the problems continued during Eleventh Hour I stopped the recording.

Perhaps one of the tuners on my HDHomerun is bad, but it was fine the hour before as it was used to record American Idol.

Thanks in advance.

I recorded CSI from 6-1 OTA on my DISH Network DVR last night also. I will check it out and let you know how it looked.

I recorded CSI from 6-1 OTA on my DISH Network DVR last night also. I will check it out and let you know how it looked.

Too many dropouts to watch. Dropped out about very 20 seconds or so. Possibly weather related as I think some kind of front moved through last night. Could not watch the Ghost Whisperer OTA tonight either. Too many dropouts.

Too many dropouts to watch. Dropped out about very 20 seconds or so. Possibly weather related as I think some kind of front moved through last night. Could not watch the Ghost Whisperer OTA tonight either. Too many dropouts.

Thank you very much for checking the CSI recording. Our Ghost Whisperer recording did have some dropouts but we found it watchable.

"Sorry that you are having audio problems. I have been told by Direct TV that they are having problems with lip sync in the receivers used at the local collection point here in Albany. This is not a problem that we see in our off air digital transmission which is the same signal used by the satellite providers. These receivers are being replaced around the country."

and when I asked for a bit of clarification, just got this:

"Local collection point" is the site that is used by Direct TV to pick up all the local channels which are processed and fed to their up link site where they are fed to the satellite. We monitor our off air signal and do not see the problem you are having. Direct TV tells me that the lip sync issue appears to be in the receiver used to decode our transmission. It is the receiver they use for our signal, not your receiver. Cable does not see this problem.

I Bolded the most important line of the reply.....it did not come to me this way.

So ----- Directv - WHEN WILL THIS BE FIXED?

we are still having major audio problems with out directv dvr on fox WXXA (audio synch, brrrrrrrip distortion). it is only on the fox 23 broadcast and only on direct tv. fox 23 on OTA is fine. other channels on direc tv are fine. I assume it relates to the issue quoted above. can anyone confirm this problem and when it will be fixed? from the quote above i guess it has nothing to do with my equipment? it is very frustrating as this has been on and off many months.

Are there any Albany Time Warner digital cable subscribers in this Forum who have been getting a "Channel Not Available" message for many of the channels in the HD tier? I've noticed that quite a few channels I normally receive have been unavailable for the past couple of days.

The oddest thing. I can't get WXXA for the life of me, even though I can get all the other major stations just fine. I'm in Troy near RPI with an essentially clear view of the west.

Actually, I get 100% strength using the Samsung 260F but 0% with my HTPC w/Hauppauge 2250. I get 100% on WRGB, WTEN, and WNYT.

jonnythan:
I'm closer to the towers than you are, but I see no problem with WXXA using either a 4-bay bowtie (UHF, but with fair high VHF reception) or rabbit ears and a loop. In fact it's stronger than WNYT for me. WXXA is currently the lowest-frequency digital here (ch. 7). Can your antenna deliver that? And BTW, how's your reception of analog channel 6? You'll need that for digital in June.

Another possibility is connector corrosion. I had problem where I lost a small range of channels on cable which was fixed by loosening and retightening connectors.

Are there any technical limitations for WRGB that will not allow them to feed Albany TWC with multiple HD feeds of the NCAA games?

Why can't the game being shown on channel 1896 be shown in HD? ...or at least SD widescreen?

Are there any technical limitations for WRGB that will not allow them to feed Albany TWC with multiple HD feeds of the NCAA games?

Why can't the game being shown on channel 1896 be shown in HD? ...or at least SD widescreen?
I can't figure out why they can't do it OTA. Channel 6-2 shows the same game as 6-1. When they switched during the Sienna-Louisville game I kept thinking of the "Heidi" blunder.

I can't figure out why they can't do it OTA. Channel 6-2 shows the same game as 6-1. When they switched during the Sienna-Louisville game I kept thinking of the "Heidi" blunder.
There is limited bandwidth using OTA. While it is possible to broadcast two games in HD, there will be a degredation in quality, so I could understand why they won't do it OTA.

However, WRGB has a fiber connection directly to TWC. My question concerns why they they don't have two HD games available via TWC.

..or at least the second game is SD 16:9 widescreen instead of 4:3 SD.

Are there any technical limitations for WRGB that will not allow them to feed Albany TWC with multiple HD feeds of the NCAA games?

Why can't the game being shown on channel 1896 be shown in HD? ...or at least SD widescreen?Speaking with no actual knowledge, as I often do, my guess is that they have hardware limitations. They'd need an extra HD receiver, HD-capable switcher if they want to insert local content, and the hardware to feed another HD channel to the fiber. At the TWC end they'd need another HD receiver looking at the fiber. All this for a show that runs a few days a year. WRGB probably doesn't have one or more of the needed devices, and they probably don't have the budget for it either.

WRGB EngDept has said that they feed TWC exactly the same signal that they feed to their transmitter.

As for setting 6-2 to 16:9 SD, they could probably do that by setting the proper flag and driving it with anamorphic 4:3 (that's how DVDs do it, anyway). Shouldn't impact bandwidth unless they also switched to 480p.

This is obviously unscientific but I just recorded 5 minutes of TV from 6.1 OTA and 18.6 ClearQAM using Windows Vista Media Center and here are the results.

OTA- 576 MB or 15.4 Mbps
QAM- 506 MB or 13.9 Mbps

does anyone know if WMHT shut off their analog signal as they said they were going to on April 16?

does anyone know if WMHT shut off their analog signal as they said they were going to on April 16?

I didn't see it this morning. I have deleted it from my channel list.

How about fox 23? Didn't they say they were going to switch off on the original date? Last I checked a couple weeks ago, they were still on.

How about fox 23? Didn't they say they were going to switch off on the original date? Last I checked a couple weeks ago, they were still on.

WXXA analog was on Monday morning.

Yeah, I guess they thought twice about being the only ones not on analog still. But now that WMHT is off analog, how long before the rest jump ship? Or are they all going to wait until June 12? The only thing I really care about is if I'm going to need a low VHF antenna for ch 6. Checked the ch 6 analog signal last night and it was pretty snowy and really didn't hold a lock, and that's with the leaves still off the trees, once the leaves are out, probably won't get anything.

LD

Everyone else in Albany waits until June 12 according to FCC filings.

- Trip

Is there anyone here or anyone you know of that still relies on the analog broadcast?

I would figure most people have already made the digital switchover, and the ones that havent will never be ready regardless of any planned date.

Is there anyone here or anyone you know of that still relies on the analog broadcast?Sure, they're great for aligning an antenna to receive digital broadcasts from the same location.:D

But I do know an elderly woman in a nursing home who has an analog TV with rabbit ears in her room. I've mentioned the coming change on several visits and it's news to her, every time. When she lived in her own home she had cable with a box and I had to keep coming over to "fix" it for her because she couldn't understand that she had to leave the TV on channel 3 and just change channels on the box. If her family gets her a CECB I expect she'll have the same problem.

Got a friend who's girlfriend just moved out and since she's not paying the cable bill anymore, he's going to need a box. Don't know what kind of antenna he has, but I have a coupon he can use.

My SONY DVR stopped getting guide information... what gives, am I SOL without an analog 6 ( that's where they had the information in the past ).

My SONY DVR stopped getting guide information... what gives, am I SOL without an analog 6 ( that's where they had the information in the past ).

Looks like SONY has a firmware for downloading guide data over digital, although reports are still that it's hit and miss. Does anyone else get TVGuide data OTA with digital locally?

On clear days, like today, I have a problem with WTEN rf26, coming in stable.
My Zenith 901 receiver has this problem, my Samsung 206f receiver not so much.
Very strange that good weather does this.
Possibly it overloads the Zenith?
It is a newer chipset.
Any thoughts on this one?

TVFOOL (http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d7c720cae07de2a)

Snowmoon it's good Sony is working on a fix.
My JVC DVD recorder will lose the guide when analog goes away.
I record off the Samsung receiver but it makes setting up the recorder much easier.

The Hound:
At 18 miles with no serious obstructions there's a good chance you're overloading the Zenith. It's more sensitive than any other digital receiver I've tried, able (with careful antenna adjustment) to pick up a station (WYPX) that my other tuners can't touch.

You didn't mention your antenna or whether it has an amplifier but you shouldn't need an amp at that distance. I presume you're splitting the antenna output to the Zenith and the Samsung. If they have different antennas all bets are off.

Try padding the signal into the Zenith. Unless you have pads made for the purpose the easiest way is to put another splitter in the line. That will cut the signal at least in half (more if the splitter has more than two outputs).

I'm using a RS Yagi similiar to THIS (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103088) at about 25', for UHF.
Coupled to a full size 2-13 dipole, both outside on a mast.
Yes, I split one downlead between the two tuners.
I would just put a splitter in the leg going to the zenith?
Thanks.

The Hound:
That should give you plenty of signal. I think your first guess was correct: you're overloading the Zenith. For test purposes I'd put an extra splitter in the line to the Zenith. Normally I'd recommend getting a good quality one but in this case you could probably get by with a cheap one from a dollar store. You should terminate the unused output in 75 ohms but for the test it probably won't matter much if you don't.

My SONY DVR stopped getting guide information... what gives, am I SOL without an analog 6 ( that's where they had the information in the past ).6 didn't go away, 17 did. I think Gemstar burped. I lock my LG DVR to 6 for the guide and recently it gave me the setup screen where I had to choose my lineup. I picked a likely candidate (none is ever quite correct) and all seems to be good again.

I have seen one change in the listings within the past month or two. There is now a listing for WRGB digital, separate from their analog listing. That's good news because now I can assign one to 6-0 (necessary to get the guide from that channel) and the other to 6-1 so that when I schedule a recording of a CBS show it will record digital, not analog.

6 didn't go away, 17 did. I think Gemstar burped. I lock my LG DVR to 6 for the guide and recently it gave me the setup screen where I had to choose my lineup. I picked a likely candidate (none is ever quite correct) and all seems to be good again.

I have seen one change in the listings within the past month or two. There is now a listing for WRGB digital, separate from their analog listing. That's good news because now I can assign one to 6-0 (necessary to get the guide from that channel) and the other to 6-1 so that when I schedule a recording of a CBS show it will record digital, not analog.

I applied the update to the SONY and it's now got listings again. I don't know exactly what did it but, for now, things are back to normal. I guess the real test will be pushed off a month or so.

hi guys...this might be a stupid question, but I was wondering if anyone would mind suggesting a good amplified antenna that I could buy that looks decent and won't totally break the bank. Thanks
James

bartonjm:
Yes, I'd mind. I know that's not the answer you were hoping for, but it's the right one.

First, you didn't say where you are so it's impossible to recommend any antenna. Plug your location into either www.antennaweb.org or www.tvfool.com to get general antenna recommendations. I prefer TVFool because it takes terrain into account.

But more importantly, I suspect you're talking about an amplified set-top antenna. Don't waste your money. If such an antenna isn't good enough without an amplifier, an amplifier won't help. An amp can't improve the signal coming off an antenna; it can only compensate for losses in a long transmission line or splitters.

Ok...I'm in Glenville NY. I thought I had changed that in my profile, but I did not. Thanks for the information. James

bartonjm:
Yes, I'd mind. I know that's not the answer you were hoping for, but it's the right one.

First, you didn't say where you are so it's impossible to recommend any antenna. Plug your location into either www.antennaweb.org or www.tvfool.com to get general antenna recommendations. I prefer TVFool because it takes terrain into account.

But more importantly, I suspect you're talking about an amplified set-top antenna. Don't waste your money. If such an antenna isn't good enough without an amplifier, an amplifier won't help. An amp can't improve the signal coming off an antenna; it can only compensate for losses in a long transmission line or splitters.

bartonjm:
The major network stations are about 17 miles almost due south of you with no terrain obstructions. A set-top antenna for both VHF and UHF might be OK for you; at least it's worth a try. I like the Zenith (or Philips) non-amplified Silver Sensor for UHF. It might even pull in some of the high VHF stations but it's not designed for that. Should be in the $20-$30 range but some places sell it for much more (like Sears). After June 12 WRGB will be on its current analog channel, 6, and eventually there will be 3 high VHF channels: 7, 12 and 13 so you'll need something for those. Rabbit ears are cheap and worth a try.

If you have the room, consider mounting an outdoor antenna indoors such as in an attic. A 4- or 8-bay bowtie doesn't take up a lot of space and might work well for high VHF (especially the 8-bay). Channel 6 is the wild card. My attic-mounted 4-bay gives me snowy analog reception of 6 at about 8 miles but I'm hoping it'll be good enough for digital.

All this assumes your antenna doesn't have to look through signal killers such as aluminum siding or stucco. If it does then you may have to mount it outside.

I am in Clifton Park and got an antenna that I am using quite successfully in my attic. Got it from http://www.dennysantennaservice.com - it is the EZ-HD antenna, along with a Winegard preamp (I think it is model AP8700, but not certain). I would suggest speaking with Denny if you can - he is really good at matching up antennas with particular situations. I am able to receive all digital stations in the area quite consistently (as long as the wind is not blowing too hard!)

it is the EZ-HD antenna, I would suggest speaking with Denny if you can - he is really good at matching up antennas with particular situations.

The EZ-HD is not designed to receive low band VHF. It won't work for WRGB in June.

Call Denny and ask for your money back.

Is anyone else having trouble with WXXA?

Not that I noticed today but, at other times yes.

My question, did WVER up there power recently.
I have never pulled in there signal before (RF 9).
Tonight it was solid at 75%.
So it's coming in from behind my VHF antenna, 146 degree out, 70 miles away.
Hhhmmm....

I can't get any signal at all on WXXA-DT anymore, with or without my antenna's amplifier. Hm.

Is anyone else having trouble with WXXA?
I receive WXXA-DT at 94% signal strength. No problems.

I too get WXXA solidly, but I'm only 8 miles from the tower. The signal is much lower than it has been, about 22 dB SNR, while the others from the same tower range from 28-33 dB. I'm using a UHF attic antenna (4-bay bowtie) and WXXA is VHF (7), but so is WNYT (12) and that's currently about 30 dB.

I wish that TV stations in general would have an engineering blog on their web sites where they would report any technical problems they have that might affect reception and another report when it's resolved. Contrary to what management might think, that would make a station look better, not worse, to most people. The closest we have to that is occasional reports about WRGB by WRGB EngDept (their CE, I presume).

I too get WXXA solidly, but I'm only 8 miles from the tower. The signal is much lower than it has been, about 22 dB SNR, while the others from the same tower range from 28-33 dB. I'm using a UHF attic antenna (4-bay bowtie) and WXXA is VHF (7), but so is WNYT (12) and that's currently about 30 dB.

I wish that TV stations in general would have an engineering blog on their web sites where they would report any technical problems they have that might affect reception and another report when it's resolved. Contrary to what management might think, that would make a station look better, not worse, to most people. The closest we have to that is occasional reports about WRGB by WRGB EngDept (their CE, I presume).

I haven't been able to get anything at all for days. I'm in south Troy, about 17 miles from the tower. I'm on the top floor of an apartment and practically have LOS to it. I've tried my RCA antenna with and without amplifier and my rabbit ears/loop in every configuration imaginable and I've gotten absolutely nothing.

I'm in south Troy, about 17 miles from the tower.

Perhaps you are receiving interference from WRPI 91.5.

Try an FM trap. http://www.solidsignal.tv/cat_display.asp?main_cat=03&CAT=Antenna%20FM%20Traps

I have seen a definite decrease in WXXAs signal strength these last couple of weeks.

I have seen a definite decrease in WXXAs signal strength these last couple of weeks.

I checked mine and it is down from about 90 per cent to about 70 percent. Still solid though.

Albany Channel 6's manager, Bob Furlong, has been on air telling viewers that DISH Network and WRGB have been in negotiation for their HD signal for a while, but DISH executives do not seem to want to reach a deal. As a result, WRGB is threatening to pull their SD signal from DISH Network as well as the local CW unless Dish agrees to carry the HD signal. This could happen as soon as Wednesday. This seems to be coming from WRGB's station owner Freedom Corporation, which is doing the same thing with its other CBS & CW stations in other parts of the country. It seems that DISH has been able to reach agreement with WTEN, WNYT & WXXA for their HD signal, but WRGB (Freedom) apparently feels that their station is worth much more, or they are holding carriage of WCWN as a must for carrying WRGB. Either way, DISH Network customers in the Albany DMA will be the big losers. If you don't have OTA, or you have trouble getting WRGB or WCWN OTA you will lose them completely. I and some others will be contacting WRGB's advertisers by email or phone to advise them that they should be aware that WRGB will be pulling their ads from DISH Network subscribers soon.

Here is a partial list of WRGB advertisers:

Green's Appliance Direct
Residential Specialists siding
Times Union Center
Walmart
Lia Hyundai/Toyota
Good Feet Store
Roman Jewels
Martin, Harding & Mazzotti
Quick Response Fire Restoration
Garvey Hyundai
Hana Japanese Steakhouse
Window World
Erie Construction
Mark Lawson Antiques
Baptist Health Rehab Centers
Jean Paul Spa
Yankee Trails World Travel
Affordable Denture
GNH Lumber
Northeast Health Samaritan Hospital
Curtis Lumber
Mohawk Honda
Finklestein & Partners
NY Lottery
Raymour & Flanagan
Bath Expressions Showroom by Security Supply
Terry Chrysler Jeep
Aspen Dental
Taft Furniture
Rensselaer Honda
Greenwich Regional Medical Center
Cats Eye Pest Control
Consumer Credit Counseling Services
Metro Mattress
Old Saratoga Coin
Hippo's Audio Video

I and some others will be contacting WRGB's advertisers by email or phone to advise them that they should be aware that WRGB will be pulling their ads from DISH Network subscribers soon.
Just curious as to why you feel the need to do this?

Just curious as to why you feel the need to do this?

I would rather not lose WRGB from my sat. OTA is iffy here at best. Do you have a better suggestion to put pressure on Freedom to be more reasonable with DISH?

I would rather not lose WRGB from my sat. OTA is iffy here at best. Do you have a better suggestion to put pressure on Freedom to be more reasonable with DISH?

How do you know it's not Dish being unreasonable? Maybe they strongarmed the other networks into crappy deals and WRGB isn't just taking it.

Strongarmed how? What leverage do they have? "If you don't let us carry your channels at a price we're willing to pay you, then you'll lose all the Dish subscribers and have to settle for viewers of DirecTV and TWC and OTA." I'm sure the station owners are shaking in their shoes at that prospect.

How do you know it's not Dish being unreasonable? Maybe they strongarmed the other networks into crappy deals and WRGB isn't just taking it.

WRGB does what Freedom Communications tells them to do. They are located in California and have had thier other stations run similar ads in their other markets. As far as knowing that DISH is not being unreasonable, I don't. However it is not DISH that is threatening to drop WRGB, it is Freedom threatening to pull the SD if DISH does not give in to their demands on the HD. Also the other three networks in town reached agreements recently. It seems that Freedom is trying to make up for lost ad revenue on the backs of Sat providers. Not sure what if any cable pays, but the SAT cos have to pay the stations to rebroadcast their supposedly free signals back into thier own market. The SAT cos actually help the stations reach their viewers who either don't have OTA or can't receive them well OTA and they have to pay for the privelege. DISH charges 5.00 a month for locals. For this they provide 6,10, 13, 17, 23, 45, 51 in SD and 10, 13, 23 in HD. They charge no extra to provide the HD. Included in that charge is the cost of getting the signal to the uplink and maintaining the uplink. It is really a loss leader and I don't see how they can make money on it and they probably don't really. Basically the SAT cos provide locals because people expect to get their locals with their pay TV service as I'm sure all cable customers do. So I guess you could argue that DISH does benefit by being able to carry the locals because it would be much harder to get customers if they didn't. But the local stations benefit too by having their advertisers reach a larger audience. So it seems that they are helping each other, but only the SAT co has to pay. And the customer is the one who loses

This reminds me of the fight WRGB put up against TWC. WRGB wanted to receive something in return from TWC for their HD signal. WTEN and WMHT had agreements with TWC for years before WRGB finally reached a pact with TWC. Actually, this was the reason I got an OTA antenna.

If you scan back about 4 or 5 years in this thread, you can read all the related posts.

I would rather not lose WRGB from my sat. OTA is iffy here at best. Do you have a better suggestion to put pressure on Freedom to be more reasonable with DISH?

How do you know it's not Dish being unreasonable? Maybe they strongarmed the other networks into crappy deals and WRGB isn't just taking it.

I thought you had a vendetta with WRGB and were trying to make them lose advertising revenue.
:p

Still getting that WVER signal strong, rain or shine.

Channel 28 (13.1) went digital yesterday - thanks channel 13 - the signal is weak but steady.

In terms of Dish/WRGB - the federal government gave channel 6 the monopoly for CBS programming in the Albany DMA. As a resident of MA, I can not legally get the Springfield or Boston stations via satellite. Technically, there is no problem - and this is why the rules need to change. NAB (National Association of Broadcasters) have opposed legislation that would would allow the importation of neighboring signals.

In addition to that, living in Berkshire county, 6's signal is unreliable OTA. This means that if 6 pulls their signal from Dish, no CBS for me.

Local stations have been given a monopoly status by the federal government to be the sole providers of a network's programming via satellite in a DMA. With this status is a responsibility to price their product fairly. As David points out, Dish charges $5 a month to deliver the local packages - that covers HD and SD cost for all channels in the market. In that cost is also the price of uploading the signal and staffing/outfitting the uplink center. Dish has made agreement with thousands of stations across the US. There are only a few with which they do not have agreement. So, their offer must be what the market will bear. Like WWLP in Springfield, which fought TWC over pricing last year, more broadcasters are demanding additional monies to carry their signal. I would say fine, let them, but take away their monopoly status and let me pay for the channels I want to purchase - channel 7 in Boston or CBS2 in NY for example. Let the quality of the station determine whether I pay for it or not. Otherwise, if I am forced to take a station because I want CBS programming make sure it is priced fairly.

It is perfectly right and fair to notify advertisers that if 6 pulls its signal from Dish, ads will reach several thousand less customers.

I would love for the NAB to stop opposing a reduction in regulations so that I can get Springfield and/or Boston stations - then I would say go at it - I will watch CBS from Boston. Given that Freedom is a libertarian based organization in Santa Ana CA - there is a certain irony that they rely on government over-regulation to make their demand for price increases more weighty. But for now, they are the only game in town.

This sounds like the same issue with WKTV Ch. 2 here in Utica. They went HD OTA last July, but for whatever the reason, Time Warner is not providing their HD signal. For the olympics last August, TW did feed the HD signal, but when the olympics were finished, WKTV's HD was taken back off. WKTV's analog signal went off back in February and are strictly digital now. TW does have the HD feed right there, but due to a negotiations grid block, only the SD signal is being fed to cable subscribers. This has been going on for 10 months already.

This sounds like the same issue with WKTV Ch. 2 here in Utica. They went HD OTA last July, but for whatever the reason, Time Warner is not providing their HD signal. For the olympics last August, TW did feed the HD signal, but when the olympics were finished, WKTV's HD was taken back off. WKTV's analog signal went off back in February and are strictly digital now. TW does have the HD feed right there, but due to a negotiations grid block, only the SD signal is being fed to cable subscribers. This has been going on for 10 months already.

Can you get WKTV on clear QAM? ( without an STB). I was under the impression that all cable companies that carry the SD version of a major network channel must carry the HD version. From Wikipedia on "clear QAM":

"If cable providers provide rebroadcasts of locally aired programming, they must also carry rebroadcasts of high-definition digital locally aired programming, in an unencrypted form, that does not require the customer to use leased equipment, per FCC Sec. 76.630 and CFR Title 47, §76.901(a). These usually include the local affiliates for CBS, NBC, ABC, PBS, and FOX, and the cable providers comply by rebroadcasting them over QAM channels. The law does not require the cable provider to advertise their availability, and the cable customer service representatives are known to unequivocally (and incorrectly) insist to customers that a converter box is mandatory to view any HD channels"

Channel 28 (13.1) went digital yesterday - thanks channel 13 - the signal is weak but steady.


Just wondering what you mean here. OTA 13.1 is WNYT-DT (HD) right? I'm not home to check but have they shuffled their sub-channels? And I must admit I have not bothered with analog TV since 2005, so I'm not familiar with channel 28.

Help, I'm confused!!! :confused:

Can you get WKTV on clear QAM? ( without an STB).

No, that is his point. Their HD signal is not available at all on TWC. Well it was for a short time for the Olympics as he said.

Just wondering what you mean here. OTA 13.1 is WNYT-DT (HD) right? I'm not home to check but have they shuffled their sub-channels? And I must admit I have not bothered with analog TV since 2005, so I'm not familiar with channel 28.

Help, I'm confused!!! :confused:

WNYT operates a translator on Mt Greylock. It's actually on channel 38. The transmitter has already been flash cut from analog to digital.

Do you get WNYT's translator on channel 21 in Johnstown?

It's actually on channel 38.

The one wkomorow is referring to is a translator in Pittsfield which is on channel 28. W28DA is the call sign.

- Trip

No, that is his point. Their HD signal is not available at all on TWC. Well it was for a short time for the Olympics as he said.

They are suppose to carry it according to the FCC. Maybe if a complaint is filed, they will carry it.

The one wkomorow is referring to is a translator in Pittsfield which is on channel 28. W28DA is the call sign.

- Trip

Correct. When I did a scan yesterday, I was surprised to find 3 additional channels on 28. Others in the Berkshires might want to try and see if they can get it. It is located on south mountain in Pittsfield. I can not find a digital signal on channel 38, but neither have I seen it analog.

Sorry, I take it back - I just pointed my antenna toward Greylock and got 38 - very weak signal. Now I get 13 on three frequencies 13, 28, 38.

I am planning to do a rescan on Saturday. I will see if i get it then.

Channel 28 (13.1) went digital yesterday - thanks channel 13 - the signal is weak but steady.

In terms of Dish/WRGB - the federal government gave channel 6 the monopoly for CBS programming in the Albany DMA. As a resident of MA, I can not legally get the Springfield or Boston stations via satellite. Technically, there is no problem - and this is why the rules need to change. NAB (National Association of Broadcasters) have opposed legislation that would would allow the importation of neighboring signals.

In addition to that, living in Berkshire county, 6's signal is unreliable OTA. This means that if 6 pulls their signal from Dish, no CBS for me.

Local stations have been given a monopoly status by the federal government to be the sole providers of a network's programming via satellite in a DMA. With this status is a responsibility to price their product fairly. As David points out, Dish charges $5 a month to deliver the local packages - that covers HD and SD cost for all channels in the market. In that cost is also the price of uploading the signal and staffing/outfitting the uplink center. Dish has made agreement with thousands of stations across the US. There are only a few with which they do not have agreement. So, their offer must be what the market will bear. Like WWLP in Springfield, which fought TWC over pricing last year, more broadcasters are demanding additional monies to carry their signal. I would say fine, let them, but take away their monopoly status and let me pay for the channels I want to purchase - channel 7 in Boston or CBS2 in NY for example. Let the quality of the station determine whether I pay for it or not. Otherwise, if I am forced to take a station because I want CBS programming make sure it is priced fairly.

It is perfectly right and fair to notify advertisers that if 6 pulls its signal from Dish, ads will reach several thousand less customers.

I would love for the NAB to stop opposing a reduction in regulations so that I can get Springfield and/or Boston stations - then I would say go at it - I will watch CBS from Boston. Given that Freedom is a libertarian based organization in Santa Ana CA - there is a certain irony that they rely on government over-regulation to make their demand for price increases more weighty. But for now, they are the only game in town.


+1. Good post.

Mike Pier wrote: Can you get WKTV on clear QAM? ( without an STB). I was under the impression that all cable companies that carry the SD version of a major network channel must carry the HD version. From Wikipedia on "clear QAM":

I don't use clear QAM, but from the comments on the Utica/Syracuse board, WKTV HD is not available on clear QAM either.

WNYT operates a translator on Mt Greylock. It's actually on channel 38. The transmitter has already been flash cut from analog to digital.

Do you get WNYT's translator on channel 21 in Johnstown?

Thanks for clearing that up. I do remember now getting the translator that has been digital. I delete them from the "guide" so it's the old thing "out of sight, out of mind." My memory is that I do get a solid signal on it. Perhaps I'll check this weekend to see if I get the latest translator that went digital.

Well go figure. I am finally getting a full week of programming guide on all my OTA channels. I live in Glenville. I am told that TVGOS is handled by CBS. Come Saturday, I doubt that I'll get CBS6 OTA anymore. They are going to switch from CH39 to CH 6. CH6 is very low VHF and I and many other OTA watchers won't receive this. So good by CBS6 and goodbye TVGOS

WNYA is now digital on real channel 13, PSIP 51.1 - great strong signal. And it is broadcasting in HD

Anyone know when WRGB switches to 6? I was expecting it would have by now.

I'm not expecting to be able to receive it with my CM4228, but I haven't done anything yet just in case somehow it works. As a backup I have it on satellite.

Thanks in advance.

Anyone know when WRGB switches to 6? I was expecting it would have by now.

I'm not expecting to be able to receive it with my CM4228, but I haven't done anything yet just in case somehow it works. As a backup I have it on satellite.

Thanks in advance.

11:59 tonight

19 and 13 are the only major channels that have killed their analog as of 9 PM today.

WNYA is now digital on real channel 13, PSIP 51.1 - great strong signal. And it is broadcasting in HDThey may still be adjusting and not at full power. I saw them on and off this afternoon and evening. Right now, using an OnAir GT and rabbit ears about 10 miles away, LOS with only a few buildings nearby, I'm getting them at 19 dB SNR on 13 compared with 31 dB on WNYT (12). A spectrum analyzer shows WNYA quite a bit lower with severe jaggies (suggesting multipath) while WNYT is sloped but not jagged.

BTW, congrats to WRGB for running a banner on their analog broadcast announcing the shutoff and what to do about it. When I checked earlier the remaining others (10 and 23) weren't doing that. I'll be looking at midnight to see if they do anything special, like putting up an Indian test pattern with tone.

I haven't watched this much analog in years.

QUOTE=ebo;16639243]BTW, congrats to WRGB for running a banner on their analog broadcast announcing the shutoff and what to do about it.[/QUOTE]

"what to do about it"???? i wish they would tell me!!!!!

I WONDER HOW MANY OTHERS THEY HAVE SCREWED LIKE ME?????

Analog 6 used to be the only one watchable of all the analogs.

Then everyone came out with digital and I had all the channels perfect...

6 was working just fine on UHF 39 (why did they switch it to LOW- BAND VHF????????).

At 12 midnight they stopped on UHF channel 39 and started on VHF 6 and now all I get is a channel that cuts in and out (worthless to me, un-watchable)!!!
Digital TV was the best thing that ever happened till SIX screwed it up by changing from UHF to LOW BAMD VHF tonight.

Can't they figure out why only 5 other know nothings in this country chose to stay on low band??????? BECAUSE IT IS NO GOOD!!!!!

I guess it is a good thing i get so many other channels watchable in digital, but what will i do about CBS?
Didn't they try anything out before today??? why cant we still have 39 (it worked just fine)?

Thanks for screwing me (and many others in West Middleburgh, NY) out of something that worked just fine for the last 2+ years!!!!!!!!!!!
don't you care about people that have been watching CBS form you as long as you have had CBS (you were NBC when i first watched 6)?

And please don't tell me about better amplifiers and antennas - I already have a cut to channel antenna for 6 which was working great on analog 6 and the best amplifiers on all my stuff!!!!! and I have been doing antenna work since the 60s...

THANKS FOR THE NOW UN_WATCHABLE CHANNEL - digital was the best thing that ever happened for the last few years till you guys screwed it up!!!!

HHmmm...No WRGB/CBS on my rescan this morning. Wonder if my CM 4228 (UHF) is just not doing the job at VHF like I thought it would. I wonder if I have to phase in a VHF antenna for this channel?I'm in Center Brunswick and have a decent path to the Helderbergs, always had decent signal strength here.

All the other channels showed up fine with the rescan. I get 51.1 (WNYA) whcih I think is a simulcast of CH15 analog, which is still on the air it seems.

For grins I may hook up my 6m ham antenna to a TV and see if WRGB-DTV is there. That should be more resonant at VHF-low than the CM 4228.

I did a channel scan on Friday afternoon at 3PM and my tuner found 6 analog channels and 15 digital channels.

A channel scan this morning (Saturday) at 8AM found 3 analog channels and 16 digital channels.

BTW, WRGB 6.1 comes in at 94% signal strength for me with a Channelmaster 3016 outdoor VHF/UHF antenna mounted in my attic.

Channels I receive:
6.1 WRGB
6.2 this TV
10.1 WTEN
10.2 WTEN Weather
10.3 WTEN Retro TV
13.1 WNYT
13.2 WNYT Weather
13.3 WNYT Radar
15 ?
17.1 WMHT
17.2 WMHT
17.3 WMHT
23.1 WXXA
23.2 WXXA - Variety TV
43.3 WCWN
43.4 WCWN Universal Sports
51.1 WNYA
52 TBN
58 3ABN

6 was working just fine on UHF 39 (why did they switch it to LOW- BAND VHF????????).


Ken, it would have been nice if they stayed on 39 but we have known for a few years they opted to switch.

I'm giving this a shot:

http://www.wfu.edu/~matthews/misc/dipole.html

My calculations is a length of 66 inches. :D

I'll let everyone know if it works.

I'm getting 6.1 and 6.2 just fine on RF-6. I am also now getting 51.1 on RF-13.

It is weird that WRGB would decide to move back to 6, I had them at 100% on my DIRECTV OTA receiver, and now I get em at 81%. Probalby fine, but obviously a weird decision. Oh well.

I'm also now getting WNYA-DT (finally HD Yankees on Tuesdays) at around 51%. Sounds low, but it comes in perfectly. I wish the DIRECTV box showed it in dBA. Sounds like they may be dialing that up at some point, though, is that true?

Everything else (except 55.x) are at 100%. I have a ChannelMaster 3677 45-mile VHF/UHF on the roof in North Greenbush.

I really like this forum but I don't like when the answer to everything is to buy a roof mount or attic mount antenna. I live in an apt complex and sure I could put one up legally but it's a hassle and frankly I don't have cable and rely on antenna because I don't have money for cable so what makes one think that people like me can afford an rooftop antenna?

With that said it's upsetting that nobody holds the FCC and these broadcasters accountable for their actions. 6 is on 6 because it saves them money plain and simple. Less power blah blah blah. The FCC should have never allowed ANY of the VHF stations to go on the air. We have four, I have set top antenna and although I live in Troy I barely get them all and forget it if a plane flies over or if the wind is blowing, or if it's raining, etc... the use of VHF makes TV inaccessible to lower income folks who can't afford a fancy antenna setup and frankly it's a waste of electricity to have these stations on the air.

And for the record - I have friends and family who live in the "hill country" that 6 claims their channel change will help them reach and that's just horse crap. They get 10, 17, and 45 reliably but everything else is touch and go... just like in the metro!!!

Frustrating!

Don't know if this makes sense but most of the digitals are lower in power for me (signal meter shows them lower), but lno drop outs like I was used to. Their signal strength stays within a point on my signal strength meter. I used get lots of fluctuation in strength.

I can actually get channel 6 now at 73% signal strength with no drop outs.

The only major station that I have a problem getting now is 43 (45). I was able to briefly get it on a ricochet of a local mountain but have now lost it. Ion can also be iffy.

Still can not get the Springfield stations [VFH or UFH] (they are closer to me than the Albany ones), I had suspected when 19 shut-down and their signal stopped overwhelming my antenna, I would be able to get Springfield.

Did my rescan this morning. 6-1 now at 100% on my Samsung TV and showing 91% on my DISH VIP722 and rock steady on all!!!! 10-1 aeems to be up about 10% in SS and 13-1 & 23-1 seems reduced by about the same. All are steady though. 17-1 is good. No sign of 45-1 on any TV or my VIP. Also I did pick up 51-1 and am getting it at about 58% SS. Had no problems with the scans. Did have 38-something show up on my LR TV, but no picture.

I really like this forum but I don't like when the answer to everything is to buy a roof mount or attic mount antenna. I live in an apt complex and sure I could put one up legally but it's a hassle and frankly I don't have cable and rely on antenna because I don't have money for cable so what makes one think that people like me can afford an rooftop antenna?

With that said it's upsetting that nobody holds the FCC and these broadcasters accountable for their actions. 6 is on 6 because it saves them money plain and simple. Less power blah blah blah. The FCC should have never allowed ANY of the VHF stations to go on the air. We have four, I have set top antenna and although I live in Troy I barely get them all and forget it if a plane flies over or if the wind is blowing, or if it's raining, etc... the use of VHF makes TV inaccessible to lower income folks who can't afford a fancy antenna setup and frankly it's a waste of electricity to have these stations on the air.

And for the record - I have friends and family who live in the "hill country" that 6 claims their channel change will help them reach and that's just horse crap. They get 10, 17, and 45 reliably but everything else is touch and go... just like in the metro!!!

Frustrating!

From your location a modest size antenna mounted outside a window would probably do the trick. The folks in the Hill towns will need something like a large Winegard or Channel Master fringe antenna. Works pretty good here.

No 6-1 on any of my receivers and 13-1 is a weak 30% signal strength using a CM 4221 (UHF). Luckily I have a CM 3016 (UHF/VHF) sitting in the attic and will report back after installation.

FWIW.. I have a second CM 4221 attached to the bedroom stb and the antenna is lying flat on a sub-roof and not even properly installed and I am able to receive 6-1 @ 30% signal strength.

The CM 4228 or 4221 are UHF antennas although the 4228 does a respectable job on the HIGH band VHF, not LOW where Ch. 6 is.

I lost Ch. 6 digital here in the Utica area, regretably, although on early morning enhancement it did come in, but gone now. I have a Low/High band fringe area VHF antenna, I may have to raise it a few feet, will see if that works.

No 6-1 on any of my receivers and 13-1 is a weak 30% signal strength using a CM 4221 (UHF). Luckily I have a CM 3016 (UHF/VHF) sitting in the attic and will report back after installation.

I am now able to receive 6-1 with the CM 3016 installed. 6-1 @ 81% and 13-1 @ 87%, the lowest is 51-1 @ 41%, highest is 23-1 @ 97%. All other channels average around 81% signal strength.

So I still can't get WXXA. And now I can't get WRGB either, which I was able to get yesterday.

So I guess I need to upgrade my antenna. I'm currently using an RCA ANT1450 from Best Buy. It has an amplifier that I sometimes use.

Antennaweb suggests a yellow VHF or UHF. WRGB and WXXA are both 18 miles away, and my living room window - on the third floor of a 3-floor apartment building - has a clear view oriented almost exactly in the direction of the towers. There's basically nothing in the way in that direction except for another identical apartment building that sits about 20 feet lower.

So... can someone suggest an inexpensive antenna that might work? Preferably that I could buy locally?

Ken, it would have been nice if they stayed on 39 but we have known for a few years they opted to switch..

yes - but they were telling us it would be for the better (yeh, better for them since they are saving electricity) claiming that the lower power on 6 would give better coverage than the high power on 39...

So... can someone suggest an inexpensive antenna that might work? Preferably that I could buy locally?

Indoor amplified antennas never worked for me, awhile back I purchased a model 15-1892 from Radio Shack and had horrible results, I had a non-amplified Zenith Silver Sensor with so-so results. If you have a decent line of sight to the tower then you might want to try a Silver Sensor or comparable antenna. Terk makes an amplified SS type antenna but its not cheap.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7322587&st=antenna&lp=15&type=product&cp=1&id=1118844608800

Hey my 300 ohm twin lead dipole antenna works!! :D

I didn't have any of the old style wire around so I had to buy 100' from Radio Shack for $18-something. It's located in a third floor bedroom (not being used right now) and connected to my other UHF antennas by just using a simple combiner. When the room was being used I had an RG6 run there for a satellite receiver. I used that RG6 to get the signal to my basement where my media server is located.

I did have to use an amplifier (one of those house distribution plugin types) to get the signal in the 70s. But really not too bad for being 35 miles from the transmitter.

Here is the link again in case anyone wants to try:

http://www.wfu.edu/~matthews/misc/dipole.html

The folded dipole really does work to rx CH6 here in Brunswick. I actually had one already made; it was the FM dipole antenna that came with the stereo receiver that I bought 20 yrs ago :) I had never used it. These dipoles are cut for 88 - 108 MHz which is pretty much the band I'm looking for. I strung it in the attic and nailed it across some roof trusses. I used a standard "splitter" to combine the UHF CM4228 and the VHF-low dipole. I now get WRGB CH6 DTV pretty decent, and the other Albany stations well.

I had also tried an FM dipole antenna I had around the house. My testing showed it wasn't as good as my home-made channel 6 dipole. The FM dipole measures 59 inches, which makes sense as the FM band is "between" channels 6 and 7.

As kb2hpw says, it's definitely worth a try if you have one around the house. My guess is that kb2hpw is closer to the transmission tower than I am, so thats why it works well for him.

It really does seem to be trial and error with antennas. I must say I was impressed with the FM dipole but it might just be a function of where I am in relation to the TX antenna. And I'm also thinking immediate terrain is a factor. I'm probably 20-25 line of sight miles from the DTV site on Pinnacle. But I have a "tail" of a small mountain just SSW of me, right here along RTE 7, that hides Pinnacle just enough to make me need to get every last bit of signal. Who knows, maybe I'm getting a signal that "bounced" at just the right angle over here. Which is also why I believe in casting the antenna in many directions, not necessarily right at the XMTR.

I have a buddy who actually lives about 1200' in the Helderbergs, he's the closest to the site but gets nil! He's totally unfortunate to have a "mini mountain" that puts him in the perfect shadow to the DTV stick. Unbelievable irony for him to be the closest but RX's nothing.

Is a 75/300 ohm splitter being used to create the dipole? or maybe something that involves splitting the coax to create the antenna? :confused:

Off topic: When I was a kid I used to disassemble cb radio antenna elements, nail them to a piece of 2x4 to create a dipole antenna, I could listen to radio stations such as WOUR in Rochester or WPLR in New Haven. That was a cool discovery back then being a kid. :)

I did use a 300 ohm-to-75ohm transformer at the end of the twin lead dipole. THen I used a 75 ohm splitter: UHF coax at one terminal, the VHF dipole at the other. I then fed my system with the single terminal. I used the "splitter" as a combiner for both antennas. It seems to work fine at combining both antennas.

The FM dipole that I used is about 3ft, I didn't measure it exact. There may be longer versions out there I suppose. This came with a Realistic stereo RCVR that i bought about 20yrs ago. I think most of us threw those antennas away!

Honestly I read the idea here on the forum, grabbed the dipole and parts and nailed it into the attic. Thanks and kudos to whoever tossed that idea out :)

Same story for me re: ch 6 WRGB - nada. I was away for the weekend, so when I got back Sunday night I did a rescan and everything comes in that you would expect, gained 51.1 but lost 6.1 & 6.2. I have a channel master 8 bay bowtie on the roof, and I used to be able to get analog 6 but very snowy. Now that the leaves are on the trees, there's no signal on digital 6. I guess I'll have to try the dipole solution, I had tried it last summer to try to get ahead of the game, but I think I had problems with it overdriving other signals. What happened was, I got 6 OK, but other channels way up in UHF land (forget which ones at this point) went screwy. Bad or lost signal completely. I may need to try an attenuator I guess. Another trip to radio shack I suppose.

On another note - my one TV with a CECB from Best Buy rescanned and picked up two sets of channels for WNYT ch13 - anyone see that? I had to manually delete a set. They weren't still broadcasting on the old frequency for a while when the had the new one on, did they? That can't be, because WNYA is now on 13, so I wonder where the extra Ch13 came from?

Same story for me re: ch 6 WRGB - nada. I was away for the weekend, so when I got back Sunday night I did a rescan and everything comes in that you would expect, gained 51.1 but lost 6.1 & 6.2. I have a channel master 8 bay bowtie on the roof, and I used to be able to get analog 6 but very snowy. Now that the leaves are on the trees, there's no signal on digital 6. I guess I'll have to try the dipole solution, I had tried it last summer to try to get ahead of the game, but I think I had problems with it overdriving other signals. What happened was, I got 6 OK, but other channels way up in UHF land (forget which ones at this point) went screwy. Bad or lost signal completely. I may need to try an attenuator I guess. Another trip to radio shack I suppose.

On another note - my one TV with a CECB from Best Buy rescanned and picked up two sets of channels for WNYT ch13 - anyone see that? I had to manually delete a set. They weren't still broadcasting on the old frequency for a while when the had the new one on, did they? That can't be, because WNYA is now on 13, so I wonder where the extra Ch13 came from?

Yup - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16622833#post16622833

Did a rescan on the set in my office in downtown Schenectady. Previously could get it all, but now cannot get 6-1, 6-2. Cannot get 51-1 either. I am only using rabbit ears, but I seem to get 23-1, 23-2 on RF7 at 75%. Odd that 6-1, 6-2 on RF6 is only peaking at a 37% signal.

I wonder if WRGB & WNYA are at full intended power yet.

I wonder if WRGB & WNYA are at full intended power yet.

WNYA 51.1 on RF Channel 13 had problems about 4 hours after sign-on Friday. They were unable to do extensive pre-testing since WNYT's analog 13 was still on.

Their power fluctuated throughout the weekend, but they were never at full power. Apparently they're bypassing half their antenna for repairs. They'll go full power into that half, but they won't have the signal they will have after they get the other half of their antenna repaired.

Yup - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16622833#post16622833

Oh, that's what that was about, wasn't sure it applied, strange that the other TV which is connected to a DVR with digital tuner, didn't get the double channel. Then again, maybe I missed it. Have to check again, thanks for the pointer.

Is WNYA transmitting DTV13 at the old Bald Mtn WNYT site? Or are they also on the community tower in the Helderbergs? I notice that CH15 analog is still on the air. Must be exempt under the "low power" rule, etc.

A TIVO question: has anybody done the DTV converter box connection to a Series 2 DVR? We have a lifetime sub to this box, which has analog RX only. I've read over TIVO's step-by-step to connect it to a converter and I will try it. They give a list of compatible DTV boxes but was curious if someone else has tried this. When I get this working I will post my results.

Yes 15 is low power so an exception. Has TBN moved their ch 52 translator to a different frequency? They applied for 32... and supposedly they'll be digital. Anybody know about that? What about 58 moving to 44? They are supposedly going digital soon. How funny if both come in better than 6...


WNYA is on the master tower up on the mountain. The only things transmitting from Bald Mtn is WBZZ 105.7 mounted near the bottom of the tower and an FM translator on 94.9 which is mounted half way up. I wonder if they will dismantle the tower or take off the top half considering the cost of maintaining it (painting, lighting, etc) wouldn't be worth it at this point. I doubt the rent of two FM tenants and a cellular tenant or two near the base justify the cost.


On a tower just next to the WNYT Radar tower WNGN-LP is transmitting... well, so they say but I doubt they are on the air and doubt they have been more than 75% of the time they've told the FCC they have been... but that's a different story for a different time.

I'm watching during this awesome lightning storm and I have to say that 6 is nothing but pixels every lightning strike... all of them blip, mainly on sound with the lightning. 13 (12) is surprisingly resilient with the weather... 6 and 23 (7) are crappy... 6 is worse. WMHT is okay, WCWN is not great, WNYA is not great either... 10/26 is the best by far. Guess they get the engineering gold star today.

Is WNYA transmitting DTV13 at the old Bald Mtn WNYT site? Or are they also on the community tower in the Helderbergs? I notice that CH15 analog is still on the air. Must be exempt under the "low power" rule, etc.

The DTV13 is being broadcast from WRGB's former analog site in the Helderbergs near the community tower. Channel 15, as a Class A LP, doesn't have to change yet.

Are they on the now former WRGB tower? I knew their analog LP was there...

Why aren't they up on the master tower? High VHF antenna couldn't handle a 3rd? Expense?

I'm getting WXXA now! Still no WRGB though.

I'm disappointed with the results of the digital changeover. I lost channel 6 totally. Before the changeover channel 6 was rock solid both on digital and analog. I don't understand why they had to change to low six. It makes no sense to me

If you were getting 6 analog strong, I would think you should be able to get 6 digital as well. My reception of digital 6 is very strong almost 100 % SS and I'm not far from you. I would try rescanning again in dry clear weather.

WPVI's application to quadruple their power informs that WRGB will also boost power from 4.64 kW to 18.56 kW.

- Trip

Does anyone know if I can get the local stations in HD with basic cable from TW?

Does anyone know if I can get the local stations in HD with basic cable from TW?You can. All of the local HD and most of their SD subchannels are available in clear QAM. Exceptions are WNYT's radar channel (13-3) and WYPX's 4 subchannels. A scan should find them or check real channels 74, 98, 102 and 104. Also, 121 has the NYS legislature, TWC's channel of local sports and several ad channels.

HHmmm...No WRGB/CBS on my rescan this morning. Wonder if my CM 4228 (UHF) is just not doing the job at VHF like I thought it would. I wonder if I have to phase in a VHF antenna for this channel?I'm in Center Brunswick and have a decent path to the Helderbergs, always had decent signal strength here.

All the other channels showed up fine with the rescan. I get 51.1 (WNYA) whcih I think is a simulcast of CH15 analog, which is still on the air it seems.

For grins I may hook up my 6m ham antenna to a TV and see if WRGB-DTV is there. That should be more resonant at VHF-low than the CM 4228.

Just for the record, thought I'd chim in here...
I live in Hudson Falls and have put together a system of phased log periodics with the best mast pre-amp Rat Shack sells, all on a rotor bought on the internet, up about 15 feet.
Before 6-12-09, I received all available DTV out of Albany as well as PTZ and CAX from Burlington, VER in Rutland, and CDC Pittsfield, EXCEPT the analog 6.
These beams claimed to cover chan 5-12 and uhf channels, but got static only on analog 6.
I ended up homebrewing a mast mount dipole cut exactly for 83.25 mhz and finally analog 6 was there, not fantastic, but had color and sound.
After the transition, everything was the same,and DTV 6 is swinging 28-32% on the TV meter. Initially WRGB 39 pounded in here at 72% or better all the time....why change back to 6? They have this pipe dream to broadcast their chan 6 audio on radio FM 87.7 like they did on analog, but the FCC hasn't licensed that, nor is WRGB sure they will, but still they made the switch saying the VHF-LO frquency will get into the mountains better then UHF. Here on the flat lands, I'm just barely getting it, I can see many complaints coming to them from people north of here.
And finally, WNYA and WYPX....chan 51 is not here, but the ops manager at WNYA assures me the antenna problem will be fixed in a couple of days and they will be at full power. I have nothing on 55...FCC maps say it should be here, but it isn't....I suspect a mountain range is in the way..OR...these antennas don't quite pull channels 50 and up as they are supposed to (channel 45.1/43 is great). More testing will continue.
Just my story and my 2 cents....hope you're all enjoying this new media called DTV!!!

I have to agree that the switch to VHF Low was a foolish move on WRGB (6) part and the claims of better coverage is just total garbage. For the record I was able to receive WRGB's signal pinned at 100% prior to the switch using a Winegard Square Shooter with a 12db preamp but post switch 0% just snow at 13.5 miles from the tower. Able to shoot into the mountains better? ! I HIGHLY doubt this claim is even close since my close proximity at level ground gets nothing. Now before you go thinking "well that's because it's strictly a UHF Antenna" I am still able to receive the other VHF digital signals at the same levels they were before the change over so....what happened? It has got to be directly connected to the fact that WRGB stepped down to the VHF LOW Band spectrum and it's all garbaged up for whatever the reasons are. I posted this argument a very long time ago before the switch over that, initially the digital plan was for all digital to be broadcast in the UHF spectrum and that's the way it should of been left. Somewhere along the way broadcasters started figuring out way's they could minimize their expenses by using some of their current equipment and remaining in the VHF spectrum. These waivers were granted and in the end we are the ones that lose out, at least in my case, because Digital VHF are the only channels that bounce/waiver on my meters and even though it could be due (in part) to the fact that my antenna is rated for UHF at 13 miles from the towers, there has got to be more to it than that. In the end I guess for WRGB penny wise, pound foolish approach to this whole idea, it will force me to go out and buy a seperate, low band vhf antenna if I ever want to see those 3 channels I lost. Even for those that have the 18 footers will need something additional to pull in WRGB now and if the end resulting reason is just so the can continue broacasting on the radio...........well I won't even go there except to say the few outweigh the many?

I understand WRGB want to be on 6 because that's their nameplate.

In wilton, just down the street from the St. Police baracks i had a lot of trouble with WRGB prior to the change. I'm running a CM4228 with a 7777 pre-amp and pull almost everything else very well (fox is jittery sometimes but the rest are great). After the change I'm still getting WRGB but a little lower quality (65-72% now vs mid 70s before) and it's more jumpy. I have an old UHF VHF in the attic that i started with and couldn't pull wrgb before with so i canged to the 4228. I may try hooking up the combo again and see what that does for me since i'm trying to pull low VHF with a uhf. I think it may help with fox too.

Anyway, the point is I'm seeing expected results from WRGB's change and thier signal is pretty good up north.

Glad to hear something positive about the switch as far as WRGB is concerned, so it is working for some out there and that's good news. Unfortunately, I suspect that this conversation will come to the same conclusion as the one I had before the switch over, that I need to buy a medium range antenna and strap it up to my roof. So much for my urban friendly, square, pie in the sky antenna, that was my attempt at keeping it simple and keeping the neighbors happy. I just don't know if there is an antenna out there that's not TOO big, can get UHF, high and low VHF, plus send it all down one 75ohm cable.

For the record I was able to receive WRGB's signal pinned at 100% prior to the switch using a Winegard Square Shooter with a 12db preamp but post switch 0% just snow at 13.5 miles from the tower.Snow? On digital?

Anyone hoping to get VHF channels (high or low) with a UHF antenna should take a close look at the chart at the bottom of "Comparing some commercially available antennas" (http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html) to see what response he might hope for. Most show little or no gain for low VHF; none is as good as rabbit ears. Your Square Shooter's gain is too low to chart. Even at high VHF it's the lowest of those tested.

You might try rabbit ears, or build a folded dipole from twin lead cut to channel 6 from these plans (http://www.wfu.edu/%7Ematthews/misc/dipole.html). Neither is very suitable for outdoor mounting but you could put them in your attic if you have one.

Snow? On digital?

Anyone hoping to get VHF channels (high or low) with a UHF antenna should take a close look at the chart at the bottom of "Comparing some commercially available antennas" (http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html) to see what response he might hope for. Most show little or no gain for low VHF; none is as good as rabbit ears. Your Square Shooter's gain is too low to chart. Even at high VHF it's the lowest of those tested.

You might try rabbit ears, or build a folded dipole from twin lead cut to channel 6 from these plans (http://www.wfu.edu/%7Ematthews/misc/dipole.html). Neither is very suitable for outdoor mounting but you could put them in your attic if you have one.

Good catch there ebo, yep my error, was just following what another poster had said they received on there system- - - -the actuallity of it is, since I have it running through my DirecTV OTA receiver all I get in Code 771 Searching for signal...................but as of this writing WRGB is now coming in at a WHOPPING 40%, yippee they must of maxed their output! Can't wait for the heavy snow and rain storms. Seriously though, Yes I do think it's time for an upgrade from my square shooter, just have to find the right antenna that can incorporate both Low and High VHF plus UHF yet not take up a quarter or more of my roof line. On another good note channel 13.1 now pinned at 100% and channel 51.1 at mid 80's so only 45 WCW left in the 70's. If things stay the way they are now though I might just keep it all the same and pull in my WRGB from D* LIL HD, getting 6.2 would be nice but can live without also.

Another WRGB tale of woe - tried an FM dipole and tied it into the CM 4228 and it worked OK last night when the weather was clear, a decent signal on ch6. The breezy weather and the leaves on the trees conspired to cause interference on chs 10, 17 & 45 though. I could tell exactly when the wind was blowing by how much signal was dropped (~50%). When the wind was calm, those three stations had a decent signal in the 70-80% range. It would drop to zero at some points though. The rest of the channels were fine, no problems.

This morning with the rain, ch6 was gone, I guess the FM dipole can't pull in enough signal. Now I'm thinking of adding the CM-3010 by channel master. Looks to be a smaller "footprint" than a huge full VHF/UHF antenna, and says it's good for channels 2-69 so I may tie that into the 4228 and see what happens. The 3010 only costs about $40 so I'm not out much.

I must have a unique system in that my 4228 is picking up 6 ok. I was having a lot of trouble with 39 (i htink that was their UHF???) in that it was a half wave or 2 waves (can't remember now) of the state police barack in wilton so some days i'd have great reception, others poor. Always had pretty good analog on 6 with just the 4228 and 7777 pre-amp. I had a rat shack combo before that's i couldn't get to pull in wrgb digital before so i'm goingto try to switch back to that one of these days when i feel like climbing through the rat hole in my attic.

You can. All of the local HD and most of their SD subchannels are available in clear QAM. Exceptions are WNYT's radar channel (13-3) and WYPX's 4 subchannels. A scan should find them or check real channels 74, 98, 102 and 104. Also, 121 has the NYS legislature, TWC's channel of local sports and several ad channels.

I confirmed this by calling my TW guy.

I'm getting hooked up for basic cable today. I'm sick of dealing with antennas, dropouts, lost signals, and missing channels.

$7 a month well spent.

I just don't know if there is an antenna out there that's not TOO big, can get UHF, high and low VHF, plus send it all down one 75ohm cable.

From the WRGB DTV FAQ (http://www.cbs6albany.com/sections/dtv/):

What is the absolute best antenna to receive WRGB?
The Winegard HD7084P has more gain on channel 6 than most other all-channel antennas.

Thanks for the info NervousCat but at nearly 13 foot long and 12 foot wide that would not even be remotely possible in my urban setting. Brings me back to a conversation I had before with one of our members and he informed me he was using an 18 foot boom, I thought to myself my god that's more than half of my roof taken up!!!! Nah, don't think I'll need to go quite that large for my location (Latham) in fact, I'm already leaning towards doing wthout OTA 6.1-6.2-6.3, just too much involved for someones pisspoor idea. Just a bad, some may say greedy move on their part but I'm just saying too bad for them and the customers who's only reception is OTA.

Yeah, that's a little (a LOT) bigger than I want to go, too. I took a chance and ordered the CM-3010, and see how that goes.... Just wondering what the best way to combine the signals from the 3010 and the 4228 would be, since the 3010 seems to have a built-in balun, and outputs to coax and the 4228 has two lugs that needs a balun added. I was hoping the 3010 would output to 300 ohm like the 4228 and I could just wire them together to one balun and run coax from there. Guess I'm going to need a combiner and I'm not too sure how to go about using one that's going to be exposed to the weather.

the CM7777 amp has a built in combiner and the amp does a good job. Not to expensive either.

Guess I'm going to need a combiner and I'm not too sure how to go about using one that's going to be exposed to the weather.

Here's one option:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001RUDC84/ref=asc_df_B001RUDC84735213

Here's another:

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=HLSJ

[QUOTE=kb2fzq;16674160] they made the switch saying the VHF-LO frquency will get into the mountains better then UHF. QUOTE]

yeh - the tops of mountains at lower power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[QUOTE=kb2fzq;16674160] they made the switch saying the VHF-LO frquency will get into the mountains better then UHF. QUOTE]

yeh - the tops of mountains at lower power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is a thread in the HDTV Technical section regarding people's preference and experiences of VHF VS. UHF after the transition: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1155836

I posted this there:

It seems most people like the band that comes in best for them. I don't blame them. I like what's best for me too. Unfortunately there is not a best for everyone. For me VHF is the clear winner and it is no contest. I live short of 50 miles away from the transmitters in Albany, NY. Between me and the tower are several 2000'+ peaks. Behind me is a 2500' peak and right behind that is MT Greylock at 3500'. For VHF I am getting RF 6 (WRGB CBS 6), RF 7 (WXXA FOX 23), RF 12 (WNYT NBC 13) and RF 13 (My TV 51) and with the exception of 51 they all come in between 9 & 10 bars out of 10 on my TVs and are pretty much rock solid. 51 comes in about 65% SS (low power I believe). For UHF I am getting RF 26 (WTEN ABC 10) and RF 34 (WMHT PBS 17), but am unable to receive any signal at all from RF 43 (WCWN CW 45) broadcast from the same tower as the others. The two UHF stations are the least reliable here and are affected heavily by weather and wind. If it is cloudy or raining or the atmosphere is wrong the UHF signal goes in and out constantly. It is much worse than what is being reported by people from lightning (occasional drops from lightning) and depending on the weather and atmospheric conditions can be completely unwatchable. UHF signals run anywhere from mid 50's to as high as 70 % SS, but during weather/wind can drop from 70 to 0 in an instant and then back. Very frustrating. CBS 6 moved from RF 39 to RF 6 on 6/12 and the improvement for me was vast. Getting 10 out of 10 bars on the TV meters and my DISH VIP722 shows a 91 % SS, the highest of any of my channels. And supposedly they are going to quadruple their power at some point.

BTW using a Winegard HD8200 and Antennas Direct 91XG combined using a CM 7777 preamp. All three of these pieces of equipment came highly rated. If I could improve my UHF performance I would, but I don't see how I can without spending a ton MORE dough. Wife already thinks I overkilled it. BTW she is the one who refuses to watch OTA when there are dropouts, even when the HD from OTA looks so much better than the SD coming from the sat dish. She just won't put up with the dropouts.

Bottom line is WRGB has to think about the entire area when determining where to locate on the frequency band. Some people close up seem to be having problems. Some people with UHF only antennas are having problems. People here in the Berkshires are struggling to get the UHF channels. A lot of us have invested in the best UHF only antennas and still recieve middling results. Having invested in a good VHF antenna I am getting fantastic results on VHF. I wish all the channels would go to the VHF band. For those up close they don't need the monsters like I have on my roof. I'm sure a modest size antenna upgrade would fit the bill.

Good luck.

I'm done with antennas. Got basic cable hooked up yesterday, now I get the local channels in HD with no fuss.

I don't get the CW in HD, but I don't think I ever watch that station anyway.

I also noticed I get ESPN in SD, which is a nice bonus :)

the CM7777 amp has a built in combiner and the amp does a good job. Not to expensive either.

I have one, but took it down because it didn't seem to make a difference as an amp, didn't think about it also being a combiner as well. That's probably my best/easiest bet I suppose.

.....And finally, WNYA and WYPX....chan 51 is not here, but the ops manager at WNYA assures me the antenna problem will be fixed in a couple of days and they will be at full power.....

Just an update for those not getting WNYA...WNYA's ops manager emailed me that they were at full power late Thursday afternoon...I rescanned early Friday morning (yesterday) and I had 51.1...weak (25%) but there.
When I got home yesterday at 2:30 p.m., it was gone again, but slowly gained strength to about 32% as evening approached...very strange.
I would think it's either good or bad, unless I unknowingly had a solar flare or Mother Nature type trick occuring yesterday. And, leaves were wet in the morning and we had some heavy rain after 3 pm yesterday...very strange.
I may not have mentioned but WNYT bangs in here, why WNYA doesn't bang with 3.6 kw more power, one channel away from WNYT is a mystery to me.
They may still be tweeking....more testing :D

From the WRGB DTV FAQ:

What is the absolute best antenna to receive WRGB?
The Winegard HD7084P has more gain on channel 6 than most other all-channel antennas.

Here's what was emailed to me from WRGB when I complained about the ch 39 back to 6 switch:

Dear Bill;

I’m sorry that you missed the final channel assignment data from the FCC. Our election to switch back to channel 6 was made on June 23, 2005. If you want WRGB, you’ll need to add a low band VHF antenna. The Antennacraft Y5-2-6 is cheap. The HLSJ splitter joiner would add it to your existing array. You won’t need to rotate the channel 6 antenna.

We have done everything that we can to inform our viewers of our switch back to channel 6.

We run a crawl 4 times a day that says to keep your big, old analog antennas.

The DTV FAQ on our web site addresses our switch back to channel 6.

Reception of the Albany DTV stations would not have been difficult. It appears to me that all the $$$$ money that you spent was to receive the Vermont stations.

If you are curious, there are two extremely strong reasons for our return to channel 6. The first is the inability of channel 39 to reach into the Adirondacks, Berkshires, and Catskills. The second is the possibility of continuing to operate an analog FM carrier on 87.7. In order to eliminate interference, our 87.7 signal will be much weaker than the DTV signal and will be vertically polarized.

'nuf said

[QUOTE=Ken NY;16678107]

There is a thread in the HDTV Technical section regarding people's preference and experiences of VHF VS. UHF after the transition: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1155836

snip...


Bottom line is WRGB has to think about the entire area when determining where to locate on the frequency band. Some people close up seem to be having problems. Some people with UHF only antennas are having problems. People here in the Berkshires are struggling to get the UHF channels. A lot of us have invested in the best UHF only antennas and still recieve middling results. Having invested in a good VHF antenna I am getting fantastic results on VHF. I wish all the channels would go to the VHF band. For those up close they don't need the monsters like I have on my roof. I'm sure a modest size antenna upgrade would fit the bill.

Good luck.

I just wanted to add another data point from here in Poughkeepsie, where I am ~65 miles from both the Albany and the NYC towers. Strangely, I seem to be able to get the Albany UHF stations, but not the VHF's and I can get the NYC VHF stations (11 and 13), but not the UHF's. I can sort of understand the NYC situation, since I'm 2edge diffraction, so it's not surprising that the UHF stations just can't quite bend around Mount Beacon.

What's baffling is that according to TVfool, the Albany VHF stations should be ~40dBm stronger than the NYC stations, yet no matter how I aim the antenna the best Albany VHF signal on my receiver is ~20% below the corresponding NYC signal. The end result is that the Albany VHF signals are just below the watchable threshold for my attic mounted antenna. Later this summer I hope to move my antennas to a rotor on the roof, which based on some tests from a couple weeks back, should give me enough boost to actually receive WRGB, WXXA, and WNYT. As for WNYA and WABC, both appear to be MIA, so who knows if I'll ever get either one.

[QUOTE=Davird_Jr;16680586]

I just wanted to add another data point from here in Poughkeepsie, where I am ~65 miles from both the Albany and the NYC towers. Strangely, I seem to be able to get the Albany UHF stations, but not the VHF's and I can get the NYC VHF stations (11 and 13), but not the UHF's. I can sort of understand the NYC situation, since I'm 2edge diffraction, so it's not surprising that the UHF stations just can't quite bend around Mount Beacon.

What's baffling is that according to TVfool, the Albany VHF stations should be ~40dBm stronger than the NYC stations, yet no matter how I aim the antenna the best Albany VHF signal on my receiver is ~20% below the corresponding NYC signal. The end result is that the Albany VHF signals are just below the watchable threshold for my attic mounted antenna. Later this summer I hope to move my antennas to a rotor on the roof, which based on some tests from a couple weeks back, should give me enough boost to actually receive WRGB, WXXA, and WNYT. As for WNYA and WABC, both appear to be MIA, so who knows if I'll ever get either one.

As I wade thru this old/new technology, I find ones signal strength on their TV all depends on frequency, power, antenna height, and market coverage. It's an interesting and frustrating little chess game. Theory says the lower the frequency the less power you need to get the same results and this equates to dollars spent by the broadcasters paid to the power company. I am not sure lower power on VHF always makes for a watchable signal. Most of the big guns (Network broadcasters) are either VHF at the top of their towers or if on UHF running massive power. WRGB is a perfect example. When they were on chan 39, they were running 600 kw, they could have almost quite literally burned the rivets off my antennas (SS 97+%). Reaching into the mountains "should" have been no problem, but then theory steps in, and they switch back to VHF-LO chan 6 running 4.94 kw,and move the antenna up the tower about 3 football fields higher, making their signal just barely over threshold. This equates to money, marketing and branding....mostly money in my opinion. This practice doesn't always make things good for us out in front of the TV's. I feel, if you want to play, you have to pay, meaning any station running lower than needed power on any band will have coverage problems down the road, but then what do they "really" want to cover??
The transition was a reality check...you could stand to watch that favorite show thru all the static and lines, but NOW, if the signal's bad, you see a black screen. Not so fun, huh?
If you Google "TV Query results-Video Division FCC" you can type in each broadcaster call sign and find all the answers (the contour maps are most helpful) you are seeking for the channels you are looking for, eventually, you will see a pattern as to why or why not a certain channel isn't coming to you.

[QUOTE=SemiChemE;16691300]WRGB is a perfect example. When they were on chan 39, they were running 600 kw, they could have almost quite literally burned the rivets off my antennas (SS 97+%). Reaching into the mountains "should" have been no problem, but then theory steps in, and they switch back to VHF-LO chan 6 running 4.94 kw,and move the antenna up the tower about 3 football fields higher...With regard to height, not sure how you came up with that. WRGB on 39 was combined with WTEN(26) and WMHT(34) in the antenna at the very top of the tower with a HAAT of 426 meters. If you went to the FCC's TV Query site you would see the HAAT for 6 is actually 30 meters less (396) or almost 100 feet lower on the tower.
Also the max amount of power allowed at that frequency was set by the FCC. WRGB would not intentionally choose a power level that would put it at a disadvantage. It's quite likely that just as in Philadelphia (WPVI on channel 6) WRGB may get permission to raise its power.

[QUOTE=SemiChemE;16691300]
If you Google "TV Query results-Video Division FCC" you can type in each broadcaster call sign and find all the answers (the contour maps are most helpful) you are seeking for the channels you are looking for, eventually, you will see a pattern as to why or why not a certain channel isn't coming to you.

I don't think my reception issues have to do with differences in the frequencies, since I am comparing NYC (7,11,13) to Albany (6,7,12,13). Perhaps I'm having co-channel interference issues?

As for the FCC contour maps, they just aren't too helpful for me. According to them, the Albany stations' coverages end about 4 miles north of my house, the NYC stations end about 6 miles south of my house and the Hartford stations end about 10 miles east of my house. Back on Analog, I was just within the contour map for the NYC VHF stations (2,4,5,7,9,11,13), but the digital contours dropped the range by about 5-10 miles. Apparently, the Albany stations were allowed to boost their signals to compensate, but it wasn't enough. So, officially according to the FCC I shouldn't be receiving any signal except WRNN and WTBY. I guess I should be happy that I can at least watch infomercials and religious programming. Who needs the major networks and PBS anyway?

Hello folks,

I want to say that it's a pleasure to find someplace where there are people who actually seem to have some answers to the new OTA DTV issues. I'm looking for some advice to see if I can improve my reception situation.

I use a attic mounted Radio Shack 80" Boom Length, 32-Element Antenna

I use a DTX 9950 converter box

They are connected via 25 feet of RG-6 cable. The converter box then plugs right into the TV with the short cable it came with. All connections are solid and well made.

In the room where I am watching the TV there are a few computers, and game systems and some routers that use eithernet cable. I add this as I'm unsure of electronics can interfere with things.

I live in the hills of western Schenectady County, and in December once I set up my above system I was able to get solid reception on WNYT, WXXA, WKTV (utica) and ION out of amsterdam. No others. As the winter turned to spring I lost WNYT and WXXA, and was unable to get them in any form.

I spoke with WNYT and they felt my issue was the analog signal from 13 was stepping on the digital one on 12 and after transition it would clear. WRGB said that when they went to low freq, odds are i'd be able to get them where I was. So I decided to wait to post transition and then work from there.

So post transition I was pleased to find that WNYT firmed up on the 21 frequency, which is now solid 99% of the time. WKTV is also solid as a rock again now, and the strongest signal I get outside of ION. So I get two NBC's (and the CW thanks to WKTV) and ION.

WRGB now comes in for me, but degrades very very easily. So it's gone as much as it is there. Which is an improvement over it not being seen at all on 39. Now here is the odd thing. If I move the wire from my converter box to the TV as little as an inch, the picture resolves. If I move the antenna cord I can see a similar massive change also. And of course if I stand there touching the converter box the picture is perfect (ah memories of holding the rabbit ears for dad back in '71 so he could watch a ball game) so it seems that a very small alteration is able to fix the issue.

My goal is to have an NBC and a CBS to watch, which is what I had before transition. Anything else is gravy. Both 13 and 6 are in the red zone for me via TVFool, and my antenna rates that. I'm feeling that I'm clearly getting a pretty good signal on the antenna if such a small move in a wire well away from it can resolve the channels. And that the issue is getting the signal from the antenna to the TV.

So what is it that I need to do to solidify my WRGB signal? From reading this forum I get the feeling a pre-amp of some sort might be the missing piece of the puzzle? If so, what sort should I get? Or am I utterly off base? Is there something else I should do?

I appreciate the help, and am sorry if this specific thread was not the right place to ask. Thank you!

If I move the wire from my converter box to the TV as little as an inch, the picture resolves. If I move the antenna cord I can see a similar massive change also. And of course if I stand there touching the converter box the picture is perfect so it seems that a very small alteration is able to fix the issue.


Those are odd observations. Perhaps there is a bad connection on the coax into the converter box. Try replacing the F connector.

Maybe the shielding on the box is deficient. Try wrapping the box in aluminum foil.

A preamp will help WNYT on channel 12 a bit more than WRGB on channel 6.

Locating the antenna on the roof is likely to fix both WRGB and WNYT. Red zone antennas are meant to be placed outdoors.

I agree with Tower Guy, your observations sound more like a bad connection or damaged cable than a reception problem. One thing you didn't mention is what happens to the signal level reported by the converter box when you move the cable? If moving the cable causes the signal level to drop, but you still see the signal indicator clearly then the problem is with the cable from the antenna to the converter box. If the entire picture including the signal indicator goes blank the problem is with the cable between the converter box and the TV.

I hope this helps.

Jason,

Shielding the convertor box is worth trying if you think local interference might be a problem. Some convertor boxes (LG & zenith, i think) use metal cases, so if that turns out to be the problem, you could try one of those.

I have the same antenna in my attic with a Radio Shack 15-2507 amplifier and am happy with the results. There are better amps, but this one seems to be "good enough". An amplifier should help, but before you buy one, I would make sure your antenna is pointed in the right direction. You didn't mention if you had a rotor, but I'm assuming you don't. If you do, disregard the rest of this message.

If I am understanding you, ION is your strongest channel. Your antenna is directional and if it is pointed North to get ION, your reception of the Albany stations won't be as good as it could be.

Most converter boxes have a way to display the signal strenth. What you want to do is have someone watch the signal strength meter while tuned to WNYT. Turn the antenna until you have the strongest signal, then re-scan your converter box & see what channels you have.

If you loose WKTV or ION, but get more Albany stations, the thing to do would be to get a second antenna, aim it at the channel you want, and connect it to your down-lead with a spliiter/combiner. These are both UHF channels, so Radio Shack's U75-R (15-2160) is all you should need.

For spliiter/combiners 15-1234 or 15-2587 should work. You don't want to use something designed to connect a satalite dish & antenna to a TV or one designed to combine seperate VHF & UHF antennas to a TV. These may not pass all of the VHF and UHF signals from your main antenna. (I am using the same type of setup to get WVER-DT, using a sperate high-VHF antenna.)

Good luck,
Dave

Ok, I have applied some of the advice here are the results:

Shielding the box with foil produced no change.

I borrowed a Zenith converter from a friend, and it did much worse then the one I listed above. I couldn't see 13 on the 21's, nor 6 in any form.

I played with the antenna, and was unable to find a stronger signal for 6 or 13 in any other direction but the direction that I have the antenna currently pointed, which is NW. The fact that there is a huge hill the climes several hundred feet to my direct SW might explain this :) I did find a slightly better direction that provided a cubism-WXXA but nothing else.

regarding signal strength.

WKTV which is rock strong is a steady 47 (well into the 'yellow')
WNYT (off the 21 freq) Is solid at 36 (just inside the 'yellow')
Ion is a stunning 72 (only station in the 'green')

All three of these are working great in my opinion.

When I tuned to WRGB tonight when I got in I had a 7 strength, and no image on screen (WXXA registers the same).

By just moving the cable between the antenna and the box (and not so it even caused a change with the connections at either end) I got the signal to 27 strength, which resolves into a breaky-cubisim picture. If things go well, it will jump up to 30-31 on its own which resolves to watchable.

I managed this stable state for a while (20 min). And did a rescan, and the box found a Vermont Public station at freq 28 that was coming in just as strong as 6 was.

Eventually a bug must have sneezed someplace ,as it all dropped back into the high 20's and became cubism again.

So by wire moving I can effect a 10-20 point shift.

So, perhaps I need to replace the antenna to box cable? If so what type should I get for best results?

And if I understand what was said above about a Pre-Amp, would it provide that few point shove I seem to need to resolve 6 given where I am now with strength from ideal wire placement?

I'd love to put the antenna outside, but my location is very very prone to lightning hits, and back in the 70's we had our antenna turned into modern art by strikes twice before my parents gave up on having one out there. So having it up in the rafters of my huge loft is as good a solution as I can offer I fear.

Once again, thank you for the advice. We seem to be making progress. With analog all I had was 2, 6 and 13, and I'd be happy with that situation with digital :)

Transition went great for me.
I already had full size VHF and UHF antennas.
It seems in reading this thread alot of folks with UHF antennas are having the problems.
Like Ebo said if you're close try rabbit ears or the old FM dipole.

[QUOTE=kb2fzq;16692209]With regard to height, not sure how you came up with that. WRGB on 39 was combined with WTEN(26) and WMHT(34) in the antenna at the very top of the tower with a HAAT of 426 meters. If you went to the FCC's TV Query site you would see the HAAT for 6 is actually 30 meters less (396) or almost 100 feet lower on the tower.
Also the max amount of power allowed at that frequency was set by the FCC. WRGB would not intentionally choose a power level that would put it at a disadvantage. It's quite likely that just as in Philadelphia (WPVI on channel 6) WRGB may get permission to raise its power.

You are correct...height between dt 39 and dt 6, 6 went down 30 meters, I believe I was speaking of analog 6 and dt 6, my thought was, as the transition approached, if I could receive analog 6 clearly, dt 6 should be good, which turned out to be fair, and poor at times even after putting the dt antennas up the tower. I always use AMSL for height comparisons, in my opinion, Sea Level is a costant...Average Terrain might not be, if comparing to different towers, in different cities.
And I was not saying WRGB would intentionally reduce power, I was saying a choice to pay for power at 4.94 kw, compared to pay for power at 600 kw, I would think the 4.94 kw would be the business choice, a choice they made regardless of the result for those of us in the fringe areas. They could have very likely stayed on 39 and pleased 99% of the people, they did not, and may have very likely opened Pandora's box regarding area coverage. We will see what they will do regarding raising power. More power is more money.

WRGB's own admission states two primary reasons they chose to stay on Ch. 6 after the DTV conversion. They felt the VHF low band allocation on Ch. 6 would provide better penetration into mountainous areas (not doing too well however on that account up into the hilly area to the NW along the Mohawk Valley), and secondly, and I believe this is more important in their viewpoint, and that is that they wanted to retain the audio feed on 87.75 Mhz on the low end of the FM radio band.

Utica does not have a CBS outlet, people here get CBS from either WRGB or WTVH Syracuse, depending on which side of the hill one lives on. At one time when WNYT was CBS, WNYT installed a translator up here on Ch. 55. That went away when WNYT switched network affiliations to NBC as we have WKTV, an NBC affiliate already here in Utica. WTVH Ch. 5 Syracuse has financial issues and seems to ignore the Utica area totally, perhaps WRGB can reconsider a translator here for Ch. 6 so Utica could have local quality CBS OTA reception.

BTW, analog 6 was typically a little snowy up this way, I lost it now when it switched to Digital 6.

I have Time Warner Albany HD service with the 8300HD DVR.

Am I doing something wrong, or does the software revision that TW Albany uses for the DVR predate beta VCR's?

I have had extensive email/phone conversations with TW support about the "record first-run only" option not being present on my DVR. The email support tells me the feature is there and wants to send a tech out, the phone support tells me they have never heard of that feature. I know the DVR can handle the feature, as a friend with Cablevision on Long Island has the feature on this DVR.

I have to assume the email support is not from Albany, and has NO idea what software revision is in use here. He repeatedly sent me instructions with options to choose that were nonexistent on my DVR, as well as the added bonus of sending me a PDF instruction manual for my remote (I didn't ask for it), and it was not my remote.

Needless to say....frustrating experience with TW Albany...

Jevon Kasitch,

Very interesting observations for sure. I think every one of us will have a good DTV story to tell eventually :)

If I understand correctly, you have some very prominent hills/mountain that blocks your path to the Helderbergs? Moving the coax like that and getting signal changes makes me think that you (your body) is acting like an antenna (coupling to the coax), or perhaps changing the RF ground counterpoise (sp?). If you are blocked like I think, you may be picking up "groundwave" from WRGB ch6 from a different angle. WRGB's signal is getting to your house, but perhaps bouncing off somethign else on the way. Groundwave is usually an HF or "shortwave" thing, but with VHF-Low (WRGB 85Mhz or so) it falls into that grey area. Coax does radiate some RF, and in our case I beleive it also receives. You might find that a certain piece of coax is the "magic" wavelength, either a 1/4wave or some multiple/harmonic, and also acting as an antenna. Try a piece that is shorter or longer. Is the sheild of the coax grounded anywhere? Try removing a ground, see what happens. Play around with a "ground counterpoise", just a long wire connected to the shield of an RF connector on the '9950 and let it hang free.

My WRGB CH6 signal was much improved (from zero) by combining in a simple VHF wire dipole. The kind that comes with every stereo receiver. Dipoles have basically no gain but because it is way more resonant at VHF-low than my UHF only rooftop antenna, it brought CH6 right up into the green zone (DTX9950). And I am kinda blocked from the Helderbergs TX site by a mini-mountain at my QTH in Brunswick. So who knows exactly where the Ch6 signal is hitting my dipole from.

I have one of those DTX9950 boxes and I think it's pretty decent for the money.

I have Time Warner Albany HD service with the 8300HD DVR.

Am I doing something wrong, or does the software revision that TW Albany uses for the DVR predate beta VCR's?

I have had extensive email/phone conversations with TW support about the "record first-run only" option not being present on my DVR. The email support tells me the feature is there and wants to send a tech out, the phone support tells me they have never heard of that feature. I know the DVR can handle the feature, as a friend with Cablevision on Long Island has the feature on this DVR.

I have to assume the email support is not from Albany, and has NO idea what software revision is in use here. He repeatedly sent me instructions with options to choose that were nonexistent on my DVR, as well as the added bonus of sending me a PDF instruction manual for my remote (I didn't ask for it), and it was not my remote.

Needless to say....frustrating experience with TW Albany...

Haul the box into your local TW office and tell them you'd like to swap it out because it keeps acting funky.

They'll swap it out no problem. I've done this a few times myself. No charge.

I played with the antenna, and was unable to find a stronger signal for 6 or 13 in any other direction but the direction that I have the antenna currently pointed, which is NW. The fact that there is a huge hill the climes several hundred feet to my direct SW might explain this.

Reception of channel 6 in a red zone with an antenna aimed in the wrong direction is unlikely to work. It's very possible that the channel 6 direct signal is better than the reflected signal that you are aiming at.

Trying for a bounce on UHF might have been your only hope. That's what works for Davird_Jr in Hancock, MA.

VHF shouldn't need to bounce to your location. The direct path should be stronger and have less multipath.

Haul the box into your local TW office and tell them you'd like to swap it out because it keeps acting funky.

They'll swap it out no problem. I've done this a few times myself. No charge.

I can definitely do that...I'd just like to know if that feature even exists in albany. I don't think it does, as a friend doesn't have the "first-run only" option either...

I can definitely do that...I'd just like to know if that feature even exists in albany. I don't think it does, as a friend doesn't have the "first-run only" option either...

I'm pretty sure mine had it. Either that or a "new episodes only" or something like that.

Jevon, (sorry for getting your name wrong, last time)

RG-6 should be good enough. You can get quad-shield RG-6 which will do a better job of preventing RF noise from entering your cable, but that might not be where your problem is.

A mast mounted pre-amp will raise the level of the signal, right after the antenna, so better shielded cable wouldn't be needed. (Your signal-to-noise ratio would be better, assuming that the noise is getting in the cable in the first place)

If I understand, kb2hpw is suggesting that you may be picking up ch6 with the cable, and not nessesarily the antenna. If that's the case, then a pre-amp probably won't help at all.

The Vermont station you recieved on ch28 is on RF channel 9, just to add some information. That is the same channel I get with my second antenna. (I am much farther east than you: southern Washington County.)

You are definately located in a "challenging" spot. I would try everything, including a pre-amp, but find out if you can return it, if it does no good.

Good luck,
Dave

I have Time Warner Albany HD service with the 8300HD DVR.

Am I doing something wrong, or does the software revision that TW Albany uses for the DVR predate beta VCR's?

I have had extensive email/phone conversations with TW support about the "record first-run only" option not being present on my DVR. The email support tells me the feature is there and wants to send a tech out, the phone support tells me they have never heard of that feature. I know the DVR can handle the feature, as a friend with Cablevision on Long Island has the feature on this DVR.

I have to assume the email support is not from Albany, and has NO idea what software revision is in use here. He repeatedly sent me instructions with options to choose that were nonexistent on my DVR, as well as the added bonus of sending me a PDF instruction manual for my remote (I didn't ask for it), and it was not my remote.

Needless to say....frustrating experience with TW Albany...

Yes, the software that runs TWC's DVRs (SARA) is similar to what a VCR used 20 years ago.

Albany TWC's 8300DVR (or any DVR from them) has never had the "record new episodes" feature active.

Exchanging the box will not activate the "new episode" feature. You can check out details on the SARA software in this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=471859).

You will need a TiVo to use a "first run only" type of feature. I have two TiVo HD's and am very happy with them.

Really? I thought for sure mine had one. Oh well.

I returned my 8300 and am using an HTPC now. Windows Media Center definitely has the "new episodes only" option.

Just found this article called the "TV and the Mystique of Channel 6" on the TV Technology website where WRGB's engineer is quoted several times throughout the article.

Here's the link http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/75206

Ugh. So TW has to update their software to make this work?

With alot of people complaining about the digital transition I thought I'd put in a few good words.
Prior to analog shutdown I could not receive WNYA 51.
I could get WNYA 15 with snow.
Now I get WNYA perfect with 80% signal strength.
I can't wait to watch the remastered Star Trek on the big screen.
So I'm quite happy.

I heard 87.7 on the air today - but I'm not sure that it was WRGB... several of the frequencies on the bottom dial were stations from afar which makes me suspect that it was e-skip.

The audio sounds like it's a channel six in night-light mode - it was that DTV program that stations were playing before the transition. It kept referring to the upcoming date of February - which we all know is well passed and was change.

Anyone else?

Spent most of Saturday morning adding a CM3010 to my CM4228. Results are mixed. Didn't do much either way for channel 6 over the FM dipole I had been using, so no difference there, 80-85% signal either way. Seemed to improve the reception on ch 17 at least enough so that it's watchable now. Still nothing on ch 45, I don't think I'm going to get that in the summer with the leaves on, no matter what. Unless they do change it's frequency like they said they might. Or, if I cut down some trees....

Channel 10 is another story. It was pretty good with just the 4228 (or 3010 for that matter), but when I combine the two, it started to have problems. It always was the least powerful of the main channels, so I don't know what's going on there. Doesn't seem that adding more signal would cause it to break up. Anyone know of a way to block just that channel from one of the antennas?

I took out my CM7777 preamp because it actually made the situation worse on all channels. Just using a standard splitter/combiner from Radio Shack to combine the signals from the two antennas on the pole before it comes down a single wire to a ground block then to the powered splitter to reach the various boxes.

I took out my CM7777 preamp because it actually made the situation worse on all channels. Just using a standard splitter/combiner from Radio Shack to combine the signals from the two antennas on the pole before it comes down a single wire to a ground block then to the powered splitter to reach the various boxes.

You should not be using standard splitters for this. You should use JoinTenna connectors. Google jointenna to learn more.

You should not be using standard splitters for this. You should use JoinTenna connectors. Google jointenna to learn more.

Jointennas are excellent, but normally are expensive. Amazon has the channel 6 model on closeout. You can add low band VHF to high band VHF with a HLSJ. You can add VHF to UHF with a UVSJ.

http://www.amazon.com/Channel-Master-Jointenna-0576-Combiner/dp/B001RUDC84/ref=pd_rhf_p_t_1

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=UVSJ
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=HLSJ

HLSJs and UVSJs can also be used to minimize preamp overload. I have a UVSJ between my 4228 antenna and the HDP-269 preamp. It removes VHF signals that had been overloading the amplifier.

I looked at jointennas and the UVSJ & HLSJ and they didn't seem to do what I wanted. Since the CM3010 is a full-spectrum antenna, I don't want to filter out the UHF from it totally since it helps with some of the higher channels like 17, whatever it's really on, 34 or something? With just the 4228, 17 was iffy at best, with the combined signal from both antennas, it's pretty decent, with just a few droputs now and then. Couldn't even get a steady lock with just the 4228. Most of the other channels didn't change one way or the other when I combined both antennas. The only channel effected, it seems, was 10, which tvfool lists as my strongest channel, signal-wise, but has always been the first one to drop out whenever the weather gets bad. Well, along with 17 & 45.

I seemed to get a better signal on ch10 with just one antenna, didn't matter which one, and I don't think the CM7777 amp was doing anything one way or the other, it didn't seem to make a difference when I had it hooked up to just one antenna. But, when I used it to combine the signal of the two antennas, everything went down. I remember reading here somewhere that a signal trap can be built to exclude just a small frequency band, I'm wondering if I had one that blocked just the signal from ch10 (real 26) and used it on one antenna, if that would solve the problem.

Then again, this is summer, and the leaves aren't helping, who knows what it will look like once the leaves are gone?

Peter Putman talks about the problems of low-band Channel 6 for DTV. It's not just the Albany area that has the Low Band TV woes ... although the article does mention WRGB specifically.

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_c/TechTalk.html

Is there a problem with channel 6? I have no signal thru my TV tuner, and no signal thru my direct tv box OTA. however I get 10, 13, 23 fine thru the tv tuner and thru DTV box OTA. It was working fine for years before now.

EDIT: Never mind -- I just rescanned channels on my tv and direct tv and im getting it now. good signal.

Are all the channels in the Albany, NY Area UHF or VHF or a combo?

WE have both kinds country and western.
Seriously, VHF high and low and UHF.

Peter Putman talks about the problems of low-band Channel 6 for DTV. It's not just the Albany area that has the Low Band TV woes ... although the article does mention WRGB specifically.

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_c/TechTalk.html

Interesting. I'm getting 6 way better now than I ever did before the switch. Getting almost 100% SS at almost 50 miles from tower. 13 & 23 are also rock solid at near 100%. 10 & 17 it depends on the weather. 45 never got it. Still don't.

Also today I noticed that when watching 6 on the kitchen tv while my wife was using the electric mixer only about 8 feet from the TV there was no degredation from the motor as has been reported by many on low VHF. Just loving VHF here in the Berkshires.

From Scott Fybush's "Northeast Radio Watch" the following was cut and pasted.

Several DTV stations operating on the VHF band are already increasing power - and looking for still another round of power increases. Schenectady's WRGB (Channel 6) was granted special temporary authority last week to increase its effective radiated power from 4.64 kW to 11.2 kW, with an application now pending to go to 30.2 kW.

I came from Long Island up to my family's place in the mountains in Middleburgh for the first time this year, and I brought my DTV box because I was curious what I can get. I have a Radio Shack antenna VU-190 with a rotor with twin lead coming all the way to the TV. I was able to get 6.1,10.1,13.1,17.1,23.1, with 6.1 coming in the stongest.
I can barely get 45.1 if I lock in the antenna precisely to the right position. I was pretty impressed. We have DirectTV now, so we bought another HDTV for another room to get the OTA channels.
One thing I noticed is that during the thunderstorms yesterday I lost a lot of channels.

You'd probably have better luck using shielded coax, but I don't think much is going to help during heavy rain, the OTA digital signal seems to be as fragile as a sat signal during rain. Some stations transmit fine through rain, others not so much.

As for rotating the antenna, all channels come from the same tower now, so one should be as good as the other once you get the direction correct. The only major channel in this area is 55 ION TV which is in Amsterdam, the rest are right behind Thacher Park in the Helderbergs.

Interesting. I'm getting 6 way better now than I ever did before the switch. Getting almost 100% SS at almost 50 miles from tower. 13 & 23 are also rock solid at near 100%. 10 & 17 it depends on the weather. 45 never got it. Still don't.

You might be interested in these articles about reception in your neck of the woods (well, sort of in your general area - just north of you in Vermont).

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_b/ReceptionOnTheFringe.html

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_c/DTVtransitionRevisited.html

As for me I'm in Poughkeepsie, NY - midway between New York City and Albany. We have two antennas, one 30 year old Archer U-100 UHF antenna and a 26 year old Channel Master Crossfire VHF antenna. They were considered deep fringe antennas for their day. The UHF antenna is on a rotor while the VHF antenna is fixed towards New York City. Both antennas are fed into a Channel Master Spartan 0264 preamp. We used to get 7 analog VHF stations before the transition - now we get nothing from NYC DTV broadcasts on VHF. TV Fool shows the terrain more favorable toward Albany with 1Edge vs. 2Edge from NYC. However, the mast is old and won't turn (not even with a pipe wrench) because it is frozen to the eve mounting brackets on the side of the house. If I could get the massive VHF antenna aimed at Albany I'm sure I could pick up WRGB. I actually did write to Pete Putman and he suggested that I replace the antennas, but taking down the old mast is a problem. Probably cutting off the mast with a hacksaw would do it - TIMBER!

You'd probably have better luck using shielded coax, but I don't think much is going to help during heavy rain, the OTA digital signal seems to be as fragile as a sat signal during rain. Some stations transmit fine through rain, others not so much.


You know , its funny you mention that. I remember about 10-15 years ago, I tried replacing the twin lead with coax as a test to see if the reception was better. It actually got worse, in fact I could only get Ch 6 and very snowy. But with the twin lead CH 6 came in clear, as well as CH 10,13, and CH2( when antenna was rotated) so I assumed for my application, twin lead was better due to less signal loss.
Maybe things have changed since then. Next time I go up to the house, I'll try to test it with coax again. But for now, everything ( except 45.1) seems to come in fine with no problems.

I don't know if this was brought up before, but when I use tvfool.com, it does not list WNYT 13.1 as an available station to get OTA. Perhaps its not in their database?

I also tried TV FOOL, and as mikepier says, WNYT doesn't show up. Somehow it must have slipped off the edge. The info on TV FOOL seems current as they have the higher WRGB transmitter output now factored in.

I've always heard that coax is better than twin lead. What kind of transformer did you have converting the twin lead output of the antenna (assuming that's what it has, unless it's built-in) to a coax connector? A bad/old transformer can cause a lot of signal loss so I hear.

Strange that you should mention tvfool, because I know 13.1 WNYT was on there a couple days ago, listed on real channel 12. Right now, it's listed on real channel 18 with no virtual channel? Weird. Maybe they are updating their database or something.

I've always heard that coax is better than twin lead. What kind of transformer did you have converting the twin lead output of the antenna (assuming that's what it has, unless it's built-in) to a coax connector? A bad/old transformer can cause a lot of signal loss so I hear.


My antenna just has twist on wing nuts to connect the twin lead directly. Then the twin lead runs down into the house, under the crawl space, then up to the HDTV, where it gets connected to a 300-75 ohm F converter, then plugs into the TV.
WRGB signal strength is up there at almost 90%, both on my Philips HDTV and on my Maganavox DTV box. And I'm getting all the other channels. So I'm wondering if its worth it to run the coax.

The lowest loss TV lead is a special twin lead with hollow spaces in the jacket. It does not last very long in hostile environments and I have not seen it around for some time. I use RG11 quad shield out near Cooperstown with mixed results, but things have improved as power has been added.

WNYT is missing from TV Fool due to the way the FCC database is handling two recent fill-in translator applications. It's listing them with duplicate ID numbers, which is confusing the TV Fool software.

Andy has assured those of us in the TV Fool thread (over on the HDTV Technical forum) that work is being done to correct the issue...

- Trip

Supposedly, WRGB 6.1 just boosted their signal up to the 11.2 KW today according to The station manager. No, help here for me in Latham though still using my SquareShooter, not even hitting the meter.

No change in ch. 6 here in the Utica area either, for comparison, WNYT Ch. 13(rf 12) always rock solid between 40 and 70% here.

Supposedly, WRGB 6.1 just boosted their signal up to the 11.2 KW today according to The station manager. No, help here for me in Latham though still using my SquareShooter, not even hitting the meter.As I said in an earlier response, you need to get an antenna that has some reasonable gain on channel 6. Even rabbit ears would be far better than your SquareShooter (well over 20 dB better according to the chart on the link (http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html) I gave you).

Thank's ebo, yes I remember that conversation and I have just been dragging my feet on the issue, it just seems ridiculous because of one channels decision to change freq and then reduce signal levels is a reason for me or any consumer to be "forced" to add or change their setups for. Just don't understand why they just can't broadcast the same way the other HD VHF channels do. It's all about a number on a dial I guess and that's fine, it's their choice but obviously it is causing them some concern now b/c I just read in todays paper that now they are looking to increase their 11.5KW all the way up to 30. something.....seems like alot to go through for what they are retaining.

Thank's ebo, yes I remember that conversation and I have just been dragging my feet on the issue, it just seems ridiculous because of one channels decision to change freq and then reduce signal levels is a reason for me or any consumer to be "forced" to add or change their setups for. Just don't understand why they just can't broadcast the same way the other HD VHF channels do. It's all about a number on a dial I guess and that's fine, it's their choice but obviously it is causing them some concern now b/c I just read in todays paper that now they are looking to increase their 11.5KW all the way up to 30. something.....seems like alot to go through for what they are retaining.

Yes, according to Fred Lass, WRGB is in the process of purchasing a high power transmitter to convert to digital resulting in 30.2 kw....BRAVO!
I guess I may have spoken out of turn...it appears they are quite concerned with their viewers...and not too worried about the $$$$$...did they make a mistake..maybe...are they attempting to fix it...absolutely

Yesterday (7-7-09) I wanted to catch the pop-in weather reports on OTA channel 10 because of the thunder storms. 10 seems to have a more in-depth weather report, IMO. Chan 10 lately has been a marginal 50-60% SS up north here for the last week or so. About 15 minutes before 5 o'clock news, the signal began to drop up and down...DirecTV had a screen up on channel 10.."Don't call, we know it's down"
This OTA disorder lasted until around 5:10 pm when it came back up with a 92% SS!!!
I'm curious if it was a mistake, permanent, just Mother Nature playing with the signal?....did anyone see this massive increase in power?
Maybe all the stations in the Albany area are asking the FCC for a power boost...if one can do it, why not everyone?

I've been checking 87.7 every few days since the transition and it's been nothing but static. BUT yesterday I accidentally tuned into 87.9 and there it was!!! It was crystal clear audio of CBS 6 on 87.9 instead of 87.7

While I'm happy it's there, and I'm sure they know it is, how legal is this? I would hate to see them get in trouble because I surely enjoy the audio on the radio. I hope posting this doesn't make them pull the plug!

Is it possible that after the planned power upgrade they may put it back on 87.7?

Fred - are you out there?

Yes, I heard the WRGB audio on FM 87.9 Mhz on the way to work this morning also. Not as strong as it used to be up this way (Utica) however. They're on a real frequency thats tunable dead on by most digital tuners now. The old audio from analog Ch. 6 actually was at 87.75 Mhz while FM spacing and most digital tuners tune in .1 or Mhz increments (either 87.7 or 87.8 for example). Either way, it's still below the standard U.S. Fm band that starts at 88.1 Mhz. I did see somewhere too (perhaps on the WRGB website) where they were seeking FCC approval of the WRGB audio broadcast again, so I doubt they just began this without approval. I wonder now if the FCC will give permission to any TV broadcaster, regardless of channel, to put up an audio transmitter on 87.9. Of course distance spacing rules between transmitters/cities would need to be instituted depending on power allowed. I don't think the new audio only WRGB 87.9 Mhz transmitter is anywhere near the power of the old WRGB analog transmitter output.

Yeah - the audio sound much louder to me though than when it was just 87.7... is it actually on 87.75 and my tuner is finding it on 87.9? Or maybe it is on an even frequency (like they use in Europe among other places)... 87.8?

Has anyone's TV reception taken a hit because of their new-found audio?

- Trip

I'm assuming it's actually transmitting on 87.9 now, if I remember correctly, when it used to transmit on 87.75, I would pick it up on 87.7 and not 87.9. But, it could be some odd frequency in between, although that wouldn't make sense with digital tuners now prevalent.

I for one can saw that my reception has been a roller coaster ride. Toward the end of last week I couldn't receive anything except sporadic boxes of picture on the screen until my converter box eventually gave up and displayed a low signal message.

This week I have been able to successfully get a full screen picture but it drops out and jerks a lot - but again this is after they have (I believe) boosted their power and have the FM audio on.

Frankly I think once they can go all the way up to 30.2 kw I will have zero problems receiving them and it'll be nice to have the audio on the FM - but again it's a bit queer (strange) that it's on 87.9...

Has anyone's TV reception taken a hit because of their new-found audio?

- Trip

I was just signing on to see if anyone experienced what happened to me. I get TV OTA. I lost CBS6 (and my access to TVGOS) when they moved to very low VHF CH6. This past Monday and Tueday morning, my CBS6 reception was very good! Power level on my PAL DTV DVR was 76 out of 100 and the picture was perfect. By lunch time Tuesday when we went to watch Liz at noon - it was gone - no signal. Haven't been able to pick them up since. What's going on?

Mine does that too - here one hour gone the next - not sure why. It almost seems like the transmitter is dropping to lower power and back up again - which could be the case but isn't likely, is it?

Maybe there is a tower crew up there?

No, help here for me in Latham though still using my SquareShooter, not even hitting the meter.

The web site HDTVprimer discovered that the Square Shooter is vertically polarized on VHF. Try turning your Square Shooter on a 45 degree angle. That may be enough to receive VHF better and without losing UHF.

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/SquareShooter.html

The web site HDTVprimer discovered that the Square Shooter is vertically polarized on VHF. Try turning your Square Shooter on a 45 degree angle. That may be enough to receive VHF better and without loosing UHF.

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/SquareShooter.html

If that doesn't work, attach a preamp (if you have the unamplified SS-1000). It was mentioned in this article that reviewed the Square Shooters SS-1000 and SS-2000.

"If it wasn’t obvious before, it’s pretty clear now that Winegard’s Square Shooter designs, although more aesthetically pleasing to the eye than most antennas, are real compromises when it comes to TV signal reception. While they work moderately well in parts of the UHF band, neither antenna is a great performer on high-band VHF channels and both are largely useless with low-band VHF stations unless you use an accessory amplifier or have a close-in, line-of-sight path to the transmitter. Surprisingly, the SS-1000 worked much better with the external Titan 2 preamp than did the SS-2000 with its built-in preamplifier. In most cases, the SS-2000 didn’t fare much better than its unamplified competitors."

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_c/Five_Antennas.html

And here's yet another article. This one is all about antennas and shows the inside of a Square Shooter.

http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/consumer-electronics/gadgets/antennas-for-the-new-airwaves/0

Just noticed tonight that if I'm watching a non-HD channel, time Warner 450 for instance, the channel now fills the screen. Last night I had the bars on the sides. I'm watching via Time Warner. HD channels that are NOT in HD still have the bars on the sides (channel 1808 So You Think You Can Dance for example). Is this happening to anyone else on here??

Well - I broke down and added a amplified Terk antenna to my ss-3000 via a splitter/joiner. I did not use the UHF portion of this antenna because it did not fit in the small space available. I am only using the Terk for the rabbit ears. I am in Scotia. By extending the rabbit ears an aggregate of 5 feet and laying them flat out in an upstairs window - not pointed up, I get great reception on ch 6 & 7. My ss-3000 is still bringing in all the other statsions

Thanks for the info NervousCat but at nearly 13 foot long and 12 foot wide that would not even be remotely possible in my urban setting. Brings me back to a conversation I had before with one of our members and he informed me he was using an 18 foot boom, I thought to myself my god that's more than half of my roof taken up!!!! Nah, don't think I'll need to go quite that large for my location (Latham) in fact, I'm already leaning towards doing wthout OTA 6.1-6.2-6.3, just too much involved for someones pisspoor idea. Just a bad, some may say greedy move on their part but I'm just saying too bad for them and the customers who's only reception is OTA.

Maybe you can add a compact VHF-Hi antenna to go with your Square Shooter. There is a new antenna coming out at the end of this month from Antennas Direct called the C5. It won't help with 6 but will pick up 7, 12 and 13. Then again, it claims to have so much gain, it might just pull in WRGB if you are close enough?

http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/82294

http://www.fadfusion.com/selection.php?product_item_number=20204600053

Mine does that too - here one hour gone the next - not sure why. It almost seems like the transmitter is dropping to lower power and back up again - which could be the case but isn't likely, is it?

Maybe there is a tower crew up there?Maybe. I could get them OK at work yesterday but not today, using rabbit ears fully extended (and a loop on a pencil mast for UHF) in a crawl space maybe 15' up, 11 miles from the tower. All other stations from the hill come in fine. Our spectrum analyzer shows WRGB about 3dB lower today than yesterday.

I tried for their FM audio while driving home last night. It was there but with many momentary fades. No such problem when it was part of the analog signal.

WRGB's digital signal on 6 is a lot lower than the other stations'. On the spectrum analyzer, with all the much higher spikes of the FM stations right next to them, they look like they're trying to hide in the tall grass.

I was just signing on to see if anyone experienced what happened to me. I get TV OTA. I lost CBS6 (and my access to TVGOS) when they moved to very low VHF CH6. This past Monday and Tueday morning, my CBS6 reception was very good! Power level on my PAL DTV DVR was 76 out of 100 and the picture was perfect. By lunch time Tuesday when we went to watch Liz at noon - it was gone - no signal. Haven't been able to pick them up since. What's going on?

What you're experiencing is called tropospheric ducting. It occurs in the early summer mornings, usually during warm and humid days on the VHF bands. I haven't actually experienced it on UHF, but it may happen there as well. The weather pattern literally produces a duct that the radio waves travel thru extending the distance the waves travel, resulting in a stronger receive signal at your antenna and TV. The duct will fall apart mid morning as the sun rises. Us Ham radio operators love this duct as we can talk with other hams much farther away then we normally would be able to talk to. In your case, CBS6 may not reappear until another duct forms, which can happen any morning. If you wake up to a clear, warm, humid morning, check channel 6, it may be there to watch.

Thank's ebo, yes I remember that conversation and I have just been dragging my feet on the issue, it just seems ridiculous because of one channels decision to change freq and then reduce signal levels is a reason for me or any consumer to be "forced" to add or change their setups for. Just don't understand why they just can't broadcast the same way the other HD VHF channels do. It's all about a number on a dial I guess and that's fine, it's their choice but obviously it is causing them some concern now b/c I just read in todays paper that now they are looking to increase their 11.5KW all the way up to 30. something.....seems like alot to go through for what they are retaining.I was real nervous when CBS went to VHF 6, but I got lucky with this small antenna from Channel Master ($40).
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_6593010/Channel-Master-3010.html?tp=3261

I'm 23 miles from the WRGB tower, so you should be good in Latham. Let me add one important piece of information - I also have a Square Shooter - which stopped receiving WRGB after the change over.

WRGB's digital signal on 6 is a lot lower than the other stations'. On the spectrum analyzer, with all the much higher spikes of the FM stations right next to them, they look like they're trying to hide in the tall grass.

This is interesting. It sounds almost like they have an SNR issue, which I can't say is terribly surprising to me what with the FM audio signal right there. I'd be curious to find out what their EVM is, not that those tools are terribly widespread.

A high EVM would explain a lot.

- Trip

This is interesting. It sounds almost like they have an SNR issue, which I can't say is terribly surprising to me what with the FM audio signal right there. I'd be curious to find out what their EVM is, not that those tools are terribly widespread.

A high EVM would explain a lot.

- TripNot available to me, anyway. I had to look it up to see what you were talking about. Reading about it on the Agilent site made my brain hurt.

WRGB's digital signal on 6 looks pretty uneven, which I believe often suggests multipath, but the other patterns are much better except WNYA's (13) which is new. Just after the shutdown I had trouble receiving both of them. Should be a pretty straight shot from the transmitters to my workplace, except for the corner of a building being built nearby. Still, that doesn't seem to impair reception of the other channels.

EVM is just a measure of how easy a signal is to decode. The lower it is, the better.

My local PBS on channel 3 had an EVM of 7 or 8 for a while. No wonder it couldn't be decoded. Meanwhile, local Fox station has an EVM of 1.5, which makes it really easy to deal with.

- Trip

EVM is just a measure of how easy a signal is to decode. The lower it is, the better.

My local PBS on channel 3 had an EVM of 7 or 8 for a while. No wonder it couldn't be decoded. Meanwhile, local Fox station has an EVM of 1.5, which makes it really easy to deal with.

- Trip

Hey Trip,
I see on your website that WRGB 6 is on your TVGOS list.
I have an EPG button on my remote...Electronic Program Guide I assume.
When I have Channel 6 on screen and hitting the EPG button, nothing happens. How do I get that TVGOS??

DE K2YI

What kind of receiver do you have?

- Trip

The Critical Listener has started a movie club near Albany, NY. It's free and open to all. Details can be found here:
Columbia County Movie Club (http://www.meetup.com/Columbia-County-Movie-Club/)

Not sure if this is the right place, or even allowed by the AVS rules. If it is not I will happily remove it.

I came across this blog entry about other reports of local reception...

http://www.dailygazette.com/weblogs/wilkin/2009/jun/19/digital-nightmares/

What kind of receiver do you have?

- Trip

My antenna coax goes directly to my HDTV...bought at Radio Shack, it's an NOC L26W861...

I just read a post on the WRGB DTV forum from Fred Lass indicating they have purchased a High Power transmitter and it is on it's way to the transmitter site.

Per Fred posted 7/14/09 @ 2:07 p.m.....
"We have asked the FCC for additional transmitter power. We've acquired a larger transmitter. It is on it's way to our transmitter location right now."

I came across this blog entry about other reports of local reception...

http://www.dailygazette.com/weblogs/wilkin/2009/jun/19/digital-nightmares/

That's a great article NC...I feel so bad for the older community, before on analog, they could move the rabbit ears and have what little pleasure they could get, their favorite TV shows. Now they need a Telecomm masters degree. And as I read thru the many blogs and forums, many, young and old, are TRUELY AND TOTALLY confused with the DTV switch. Me thinks the FCC "may have" biten off more then they can chew.....

My antenna coax goes directly to my HDTV...bought at Radio Shack, it's an NOC L26W861...

I don't think your TV supports TVGOS, though I'm not certain of that. I can't find much information, but usually if a TV supports TVGOS, it's pretty easy to tell.

- Trip

My antenna coax goes directly to my HDTV...bought at Radio Shack, it's an NOC L26W861...Trip:
I think he means AOC. From their logo, it's easy to get it wrong. The Owner's Manual (http://208.109.228.157/arquivos/produto/manual/L26W861_manual.pdf) shows an EPG button on the remote, about which it says, "This function is not support." That's the only mention of EPG. So it definitely does not do TVGOS, and apparently doesn't display EPG info either.

kb2fzq:
While TV Guide On Screen (TVGOS) is certainly an electronic program guide, it's different from the Electronic Program Guide (EPG) that digital broadcasters are required to transmit. A station's EPG carries program listings for that station only. It could be several days' worth but is usually much less, maybe only a few hours. Some stations don't transmit it at all, even though they're supposed to.

TVGOS from Gemstar (now Macrovision) carries 8 days of program info for local (and not-so-local) broadcast and cable channels. It is typically sent by 1 or 2 stations in an area, originally as part of the analog signal and now as a stream in the digital signal. Only certain receivers can use the guide, and all that do would advertise that prominently, often calling it "Guide Plus+" (redundant, not to mention redundant).

That's a great article NC...

Thanks. Here's another one I found...

http://www.dailygazette.com/news/2009/jun/19/0619_digitaltv/

In the article NervousCat linked to, Mike Sechrist, general manager at News 10, was quoted as saying, "A lot of these analog antennas were made for analog, especially the older ones. They weren’t made for digital.” I guess he bought into the hype. Of course there's no difference between an analog antenna and a digital one, just (possibly) different frequency requirements. In our area that hasn't changed; we had channels on low VHF, high VHF and UHF, and we still do. The biggest difference is that WNYT's antenna is no longer in a different location from everyone else. That's a problem for people who live near the old one and also for those with dual antennas such as Channel Master's Capitaland Special which trap out channel 13 (and probably 12, their digital channel) from the main antenna.

Yeah I thought that was a funny thing for Sechrist to say. I immediately got a picture of a pointy-haired boss in my head. :D

I don't think your TV supports TVGOS, though I'm not certain of that. I can't find much information, but usually if a TV supports TVGOS, it's pretty easy to tell.

- Trip

Yup...my mistake...it's AOC, and yes the EPG is non functional, but that's ok, I have TV Titan....thanks guys...

Yeah I thought that was a funny thing for Sechrist to say. I immediately got a picture of a pointy-haired boss in my head. :D

Yeah, that's funny...my vision too..
IMO, Sechrist as GM is a money man...he probably knows little if anything about RF and probably doesn't want to know....just get those commercials on the air!!!
Mo' Money

Since the transition, 6 has stabilized and during OK weather the reception is fine, I can also get 7, 12, 13, 26, 34, 28, and if I use the rotor 50, 36, and 38, On very good evenings, I can get Utica 29, and Univision 27. So the transition has been good to us in the Berkshires with the exception of 43, which I can not get at all anymore. One the other hand, channel 26 used to peak my meter, but is now barely in the low 70's but stable. The only channel that tvfool predicts that I should be able to get but can not is 11 WWLP. TVfool tells me that the noise level in db for this station is +0.2. As I understand it, you need to bring the noise level to + with amplifiers, etc, to predictably get a station. There is a radio tower directly in that direction. Could that be the source of the problem. If so, is there a solution?

It has come to my attention that WNYT has submitted an application (public FCC records) to put a translator station on or near the W47CM translator tower on the Luzerne (Mountain) road (north of the ski center) here in Glens Falls (Queensbury proper).. The app shows transmission on rf 45 at 15 kilowatts, omni-directional antenns. TheTiger map shows coverage well into much of Warren, Washington and Saratoga counties. Clearly, WNYT is assuring those in the "mountainous areas" WILL receive WNYT.
As I write this, given WRGB's coverage issues, I wonder if a certain rf 39 transmitter might find it's way up here to the North Country.
It's apparent that WNYT has drawn a line in the sand.

i can no longer get WTEN OTA on my thru my direct tv reciever. all other OTA channels are working thru the reciever. I get WTEN ok thru the tv's tuner. anyone else with this issue?

i can no longer get WTEN OTA on my thru my direct tv reciever. all other OTA channels are working thru the reciever. I get WTEN ok thru the tv's tuner. anyone else with this issue?

Sounds like the DirecTV box is causing loss to the OTA signal. I use an S-video cable from my DirecTV box with stereo audio cables to the TV, and put the OTA coax directly to the F connector on the back of the TV, then switch the source on the TV to go back and forth between OTA and satellite.
It works...

Sounds like the DirecTV box is causing loss to the OTA signal. I use an S-video cable from my DirecTV box with stereo audio cables to the TV, and put the OTA coax directly to the F connector on the back of the TV, then switch the source on the TV to go back and forth between OTA and satellite.
It works...

thanks but not really helpful for my situation - I have HD DVR and need to run thru the reciever to record

I have been getting WTEN fine thru this reciver for several years. It just stopped a few weeks ago. all the other OTA channels work fine (96% signal strength). I have reset the box and rerun the OTA setup on the box several times with no success. I am puzzeled.

Is 10 still coming in on any other tuners in the house? If not it could be something recently introduced to your surroundings thats blocking just it. Any other UHF channels missing? If it is only missing on the D* box, call D* to troubleshoot. How old is the receiver?

If you can get WTEN directly from OTA antenna to TV with good signal, it is obviously the box causing issues....what is the signal strength of the antenna to TV without the D* box inline? If it's low normal or in the 22% range, the box may be lossy enough to cause an LOS on 10. Also, I occasionally have issues with drop out on WTEN...bumping the rotor a few degrees usually helps. If all other stations are strong, try moving your beam heading to get a better signal from 10. If you're not on a rotor, a good blast of wind could have moved the antenna off true heading and you don't even know it. It used to happen to my 70 foot up ham radio beam antennas all the time during a nasty summer T-storm. One powerful storm actually moved my long VHF antenna some 45 degrees off of the shorter UHF and 220 mhz antennas beam heading....it happens.

I'm sure this has been covered here before, but this is a looong thread so bare with me.

I live in Poughkeepsie and for 3+ years I have had a Channel Master UHF antenna in my attic pointing out of a window north to Albany. I get 10-1, 10-2, 10-3, a couple of the 17's and 45-1 and 45-2, before the changeover analog 23. Also I use to get 6-1, and 6-2, but they disappeared over a year ago so I'm assuming they went to the Low VHF band.

Anyway I am seriously thinking about getting a VHF antenna and setting it right next to the UHF so I can get 6 again, and hopefully others including 23. Obviously I want to use the same cable the UHF antenna is using, I don't want to run more cable.

So what do I need? Is there a splitter I can use so both antennas can hook into it and use the same cable?

Thx

edit: I am reading this thread and I think I got my answer on a 2 antenna splitter, BUT I am still confused about a VHF antenna. Is Channel 6 going to need a totally separate VHF antenna? Is there a VHF antenna that will pick up 6 and the high VHF channels like 12 and 13?

So what do I need? Is there a splitter I can use so both antennas can hook into it and use the same cable?

UVSJ http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=UVSJ

$3.99

Is there a VHF antenna that will pick up 6 and the high VHF channels like 12 and 13?

Here's one option. It's too small for the attic, but should work on the roof.
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=CS600

Here's one option. It's too small for the attic, but should work on the roof.
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=CS600

After I posted here I went looking around the net and not only saw this antenna but I saved it. And now you recommended it.

Excellent and thank you! I'm ordering it and a coupler right now!

BTW I can easily put this VHF antenna on my roof, but 1st I will try it in my attic. Because if I have the same luck with VHF as I do with UHF I'm all set.

I live 65 miles from Albany and get 95-100% signal on all the UHF channels I now receive, except channel 45 which is about 75%. I don't know why I pick up the Albany channels so easily, I do live close to the Hudson River so maybe the signals travel down the valley unimpeded. Before Channel 6 switched over to VHF I use to get that at about 90-100% too.

I'm mostly shooting for Fox 23, but I would love to get 6 and 13 too. I know, I'm being greedy.

Thx again!

barbie845:
The first post in this thread lists the Albany area stations including the channels they're really on. All but WCDC (a mirror of WTEN) and WYPX come from one location; most are on the same tower.

Enter your location at www.tvfool.com to find out what stations are available and your chances of getting them. Using Poughkeepsie's zip code, you're about 63 miles away, not quite a clean shot but not too bad. You say you get the 3 UHF stations with a UHF attic antenna but no VHF ones (there are 4, on channels 6, 7, 12 and 13). You may be a candidate for an all-channel fringe-area rooftop antenna with a low noise preamp at the antenna. Look and ask around to find out what others in your area are using.

I see in a later post that you're going to try an inexpensive mid-range antenna. My guess is that you might get WXXA (7), WNYT (12) and maybe WNYA (13) but probably not WRGB (6), at least not right away.

WRGB-DT, formerly on channel 39 and now on 6, is the hardest to get for many people because it requires a larger antenna than they may have room for, the station is running lower power than most VHF stations do (there are reports that they're planning to increase it if allowed) and they're trying to squeeze in an analog FM broadcast of their audio at the upper edge of their band. I can't get them using rabbit ears at 11 miles with no serious obstructions. I had to build a folded dipole out of twin lead cut to the right length for channel 6 and combined with my attic bowtie to get it. I consider their move to ch.6 to be a Bad Idea, and adding an FM carrier to be a Very Bad Idea Indeed!

BTW, WRGB switched from channel 39 to 6 at midnight on June 12, 2009, so if you lost them a year ago there must be some other reason.

barbie845:
The first post in this thread lists the Albany area stations including the channels they're really on. All but WCDC (a mirror of WTEN) and WYPX come from one location; most are on the same tower.

Enter your location at www.tvfool.com to find out what stations are available and your chances of getting them. Using Poughkeepsie's zip code, you're about 63 miles away, not quite a clean shot but not too bad. You say you get the 3 UHF stations with a UHF attic antenna but no VHF ones (there are 4, on channels 6, 7, 12 and 13). You may be a candidate for an all-channel fringe-area rooftop antenna with a low noise preamp at the antenna. Look and ask around to find out what others in your area are using.

I see in a later post that you're going to try an inexpensive mid-range antenna. My guess is that you might get WXXA (7), WNYT (12) and maybe WNYA (13) but probably not WRGB (6), at least not right away.

WRGB-DT, formerly on channel 39 and now on 6, is the hardest to get for many people because it requires a larger antenna than they may have room for, the station is running lower power than most VHF stations do (there are reports that they're planning to increase it if allowed) and they're trying to squeeze in an analog FM broadcast of their audio at the upper edge of their band. I can't get them using rabbit ears at 11 miles with no serious obstructions. I had to build a folded dipole out of twin lead cut to the right length for channel 6 and combined with my attic bowtie to get it. I consider their move to ch.6 to be a Bad Idea, and adding an FM carrier to be a Very Bad Idea Indeed!

BTW, WRGB switched from channel 39 to 6 at midnight on June 12, 2009, so if you lost them a year ago there must be some other reason.

Yeah, from what I'm reading here picking up 6 is a PITA, so if I get it fine, if not no big deal. Like I said I'm mostly shooting for Channel 23.

Years ago I remember reading that when the OTA stations go digital they will all probably use the UHF band, which IMO would be perfect, and make things nice and simple. But I guess things have changed, my guess it is, as usual, become a money issue so many channels are staying with/using the VHF band..

BTW I can't imagine why I lost Channel 6 over a year ago. I remember getting 6-1, and 6-3....6-3 was the RADAR weather station and that went 1st, then not too long after that 6-1 went. Like I said I use to get a very strong signal on all of them, so when I lost them I thought they were moving to VHF, Channel 6.. I don't know...

[B]Barbie845:[B]

Hello, good to see another Poughkeepsie resident on the board! I thought you might be interested in my experience with the Albany and NYC stations. I live near the corner of Beechwood Ave and Rt-9, which puts me about 65 miles from the Albany antennas as well. I have an Antenna's Direct C4 antenna for UHF and an old unidentified Taco Electronics VHF antenna mounted in my attic. The antennas are joined through a CM7777 pre-amp.

Like you I get all of the UHF stations (WRNN-48,WTBY-54,WTEN-10, WMHT-17, WCWN-45) quite well >70%. I currently have the VHF antenna pointed south toward NYC and I am able to pick up WPIX-11 at about 30-40%. Sometimes WNET-13 is watchable, but usually the signal is <20% and unwatchable. WABC-7 has just enough signal for my converter box to identify it as WABC, but has never been watchable (<5% signal).

As for the Albany VHF stations, I am currently unable to receive any VHF signal in my attic, regardless of how I orient the antenna. Last February I was able to pick up WNYT-13 and WXXA-23, but I seem to have lost them ever since the leaves came back out on the trees.

Shortly after June 12, I took my VHF antenna outside to test the signal and I found that I was able to pick up WNYT-13, WXXA-23, and WRGB-6 all at about 30%, which is quite watchable on my converter box. If anything WRGB-6 seemed to be the strongest and most stable of the three, although that might reflect my antenna, which I suspect is optimized for VHF-Lo. I was unable to pick up any signal from WNYA-51 (13 VHF). Unfortunately, my wife decided an outdoor mount was too much of an eyesore, so I'm not currently able to watch the Albany VHF's.

Note that from outside, the NYC channels were also significantly stronger with WPIX-11 reaching >50% and WNET-13 >40%. For some reason, I still couldn't get WABC-7, I suspect my antenna may not be sufficiently directional and I am getting interference between WABC-7 and WXXA-23. I am also wondering if a similar issue is responsible for the lack of WNYA-51, which could be interfering with WNET-13.

In addition to the Albany UHF's, I can also get WFUT-68 if I point the antenna towards NYC. Don't ask me why this one NYC UHF slips through, while all the rest seem to be blocked by Mt. Beacon.

Finally, just a comment regarding the CM7777 pre-amp, for me I see a consistent improvement by about 20-30% (based on converter box reading) for all channels. So, if you find that you get some signal, but not enough for a consistent picture and sound the CM7777 could boost you into the watchable range.

Semi:

Thx for the info, I'm sure it will be helpful when I get the VHF antenna.

I HOPE I don't need a pre-amp, I have no electrical outlets in my attic.

I live just off of Hooker in one of those 100 year old 2 story houses, so the attic antenna will be about 25' off the ground..And the house points exactly north and south with only a north facing window in my attic, so unless I put this VHF antenna on the roof there's no way I'll get the NYC channels.

So I am mostly going to be shooting for the Albany stations. I could go to the roof, if I have to obviously I will, but I 'think' if I stick it out of my attic window pointing north I'll get 23, and maybe 13.. Like I said before I'm not going to go nuts trying to get channel 6.

Thx again.

Reception from Poughkeepsie is difficult at best here off Spackenkill road (one mile east of the IBM plant) with separate VHF and UHF antennas on the roof (photo attached). I've given up on NYC stations (seems like I'll be waiting forever for for that TV mast at 1 WTC to go up since Freedom Tower construction is just going so slowly). From the Empire State Building, UHF reception is dismal (currently just WNYW now on UHF) and VHF reception is nonexistant. Pointing that antenna at Albany is the way to go (at least from the TVFool stats for our location). Our little Terk HDTVa indoor antenna inside our north facing bedroom sometimes outperforms the 30 year old Archer UHF Yagi on the roof with a CM 0264 Spartan preamp (the Terk sometimes picks up WCWN 45 while the rooftop antenna can't). The other UHF stations we receive are WTEN and WMHT. Our VHF antenna is fixed at NYC so unless we can turn that antenna around to point at Albany (which is not easy to do because the mast has rusted frozen to the mounting brackets), the Channel Master Crossfire VHF antenna is just scrap aluminum on the roof.

And I thought I was special, being in Poughkeepsie and picking up Albany stations.. I guess not!! LOL

Anyway the one and only reason I decided to try and pick up the Albany stations many years ago was because of the NFL's stupid NYC blackout rules. If I wanted to sit home and watch football on a Sunday if either the Jets or Giants were home since Poughkeepsie falls in NYC market there was usually no double header game. So I was stuck watching just the Giants, and Jets. And some years they both stink and are like watching paint dry.

Before I moved to Poughkeepsie I was originally from near Saratoga, so I knew there were no blackout rules up there so I wanted to get Fox (23).... And before the change-over I did get it analog. But now if I want 23 I have to try a VHF antenna, which PO's me a little because one would think Channel 23 would be on UHF, but that's another story and another rant... :)

Thx for all your help people, I will let you know how I make out.

Good luck with your VHF attic antenna project, barbie845. Indoor VHF is a challenge, as I found out while looking at this posting from the Hartford, CT forum thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16851954#post16851954

By the way, you can put a preamp in your attic even if there are no electrical outlets. Preamps have two-piece design with separate amp module and power supply. The power supply piece is in a separate unit, which you can put downstairs where an electrical outlet is available.