Albany, NY - HDTV [Text View] - Page 19

homerofwar

09-13-10, 06:42 PM

Does anyone else have serious lagging issues with their Explorer DVR? Mine is painfully slow switching channels, trying to bring up a guide etc. Sometimes I'll hit guide and 10 seconds later it comes up, or I'll hit fav to scroll through favorites and it won't listen, so I hit it another time or two and it skips like 4 channels.

Very annoying, seems to have started when they updated to the new guide/user interface.

Goto a time warner office and exchange your box for a Cisco HD Cable box, it will still be a little laggy but not as much, the samsung boxes and scientific antenna boxes suck.

homerofwar

09-13-10, 09:02 PM

On or about October 10: Time warner will add following channels.

Discovery Kids HD
EWTN HD
YNN HD

http://www.timewarnercable.com/MediaLibrary/4/152/Content%20Management/Documents/legal_1/notice_albany.pdf

NervousCat

09-14-10, 11:04 AM

Is anyone else confused by this? WCWN 45-1 has re-branded itself at CW 15. I noticed this new logo in the station promos during a rerun of LOST airing last Saturday night.

http://insidethenewsroom.freedomblogging.com/tag/cw-15/

For a moment there I thought I was watching another out of market CW station (http://www.stationindex.com/tv/callsign/WLYH). The re-branding is rather confusing because 15 makes me think of the channel number.

NervousCat

09-14-10, 12:16 PM

Trip in VA

09-14-10, 12:53 PM

From Wikipedia: "The station can also be seen on Time Warner channel 15 (hence the CW 15 Albany branding) and in high definition on digital channel 1815."

I guess I answered my own question. First time I ever heard of a cable channel number used instead of a OTA channel number.

It's been going on for years in some markets. Fort Myers FL and San Diego CA are most famous for it:

Fort Myers:
WINK-11 "WINK" (no channel given, on cable 5)
WBBH-20 "NBC 2"
WZVN-26 "ABC 7"
WGCU-30 "WGCU TV 3" (PBS)
WFTX-36 "Fox 4"
WXCW-46 "CW 6"

San Diego:
KPBS-15 "KPBS TV 11"
KNSD-39 "NBC 7/39"
XHDTV-49 "My 13"
KUSI-51 "KUSI 9"
KSWB-69 "Fox 5"

But some other areas have it too. WCTX in the Hartford market brands as "My 9" and WGGB in the Springfield market brands its Fox subchannel as "Fox 6." In my local market in Roanoke VA, WDBJ 7-2 brands as "My 19" while WWCW-21 brands as "CW 5."

- Trip

NervousCat

09-14-10, 01:39 PM

Thanks, Trip. now that I think about it, we may have another example in the Albany market. I kind of remember earlier posts on this thread discussing a station in Pittsfield, MA called "My TV 4 Albany". I think someone mentioned that the origin of that name refers to channel 4 on some cable provider.

The Hound

09-14-10, 09:35 PM

WCWN used to broadcast on analog 45 and 15.
15 was a LP station based in Albany.
I thought maybe that had something to do with it.

Trip in VA

09-14-10, 10:42 PM

WCWN used to broadcast on analog 45 and 15.
15 was a LP station based in Albany.
I thought maybe that had something to do with it.

You're thinking of WNYA-51. They have WNYA-CA on 15. It should still be on the air actually.

- Trip

The Hound

09-14-10, 11:03 PM

Ah, right.
Thanks

W1KNE

09-15-10, 12:02 AM

You're thinking of WNYA-51. They have WNYA-CA on 15. It should still be on the air actually.

- Trip

As far as I know it's still on.

However people with dual analog/digital sets, who go to channel 15 OTA looking for WCWN , only to find WNYA, should be rather interesting.

kb2fzq

09-15-10, 04:01 AM

WNYA 15 is still on air in analog, why that is I don't quite understand, as it is a mirror of 51.1 digital...it must be costing some cash, if only the power to run the transmitter, obviously poor quality picture, yet it still is up....why is that ya think?

MasterFX1

09-15-10, 10:50 AM

Trip in VA

09-15-10, 12:11 PM

Analog 15 (WNYA) is considered the "Analog Nightlight" in our market. In the event of some sort of emergency or catastrophe it was proposed that one station in each market would remain on-air in analog for a certain period of time beyond the official "Analog Shutoff."

You're confusing things. The nightlight program ended July 2009, and did not involve WNYA-CA.

WNYA-CA is not a full-power station, it's a Class A. As such, it was not impacted by the transition to digital TV, and is allowed to operate its analog until it either chooses to go digital, or reaches some future switchover date that is yet to be decided.

- Trip

MasterFX1

09-15-10, 04:58 PM

WNYA-CA is not a full-power station, it's a Class A. As such, it was not impacted by the transition to digital TV, and is allowed to operate its analog until it either chooses to go digital, or reaches some future switchover date that is yet to be decided.

- Trip

Ineresting. Is this a "Grandfather" situation, or can new applicants achieve the right to start-up in analog, albeit low-power?

Trip in VA

09-15-10, 06:06 PM

No new analog applications are being accepted by the FCC. The thousands of existing analog LPTVs/translator can operate until whatever deadline is ultimately set.

- Trip

W1KNE

09-15-10, 10:50 PM

The thousands of existing analog LPTVs/translator can operate until whatever deadline is ultimately set.

Which I wish the FCC would finally do all ready. It's been long enough all ready.

kb2fzq

09-16-10, 03:47 AM

NervousCat

09-17-10, 11:43 AM

Regardless of the LPTV rule, it makes no (financial) sense to burn money runnining the mirror analog side....how many people are actually watching analog 15.

It's a totally different situation down here in Poughkeepsie since our analog LP translator is not owned by the originating station with the digital signal.

W42AE (UHF analog channel 42) in Poughkeepsie, owned by Dutchess Community College, repeats WMHT-DT. Our local cable company carries the analog 42 instead of digital 17.1. It's rare but sometimes you see pixel blotches when the signal drops - reminds me that I'm watching an analog translation of a digital broadcast. You can get 17.1 directly with a good antenna, but nearly everyone has cable or satellite TV around here (Poughkeepsie is dead center between NYC and Albany - a digital black hole since we don't have our own TV market and rely on distant OTA signals). I think DCC also uses the channel to broadcast classes. I have no idea when DCC plans to switch over from LP analog to digital.

SemiChemE

09-18-10, 01:23 PM

I've said it before, but I still believe adjacent channel interference between WAE42 and WCWN (43) may be causing reception issues for some of us in Poughkeepsie. My experience is that I have two tuners. One usually is able to pick up WCWN, although the signal strength fluctuates a lot (from 60% to 0% depending on the day), but the other can never even detect it. Since these are using the same antenna's and the second tuner usually does a little better with all of the other channels around here, the only explanation I can come up with is that second receiver is more sensitive to adjacent channel interference.

Last year I sent an email to the Dutchess County community relations contact asking what their plans were for upgrading WAE42. I got a response indicating my question had been forwarded to the proper WAE42 contact, but I got no further response.

kb2fzq

09-19-10, 03:32 AM

Regardless of the LPTV rule, it makes no (financial) sense to burn money runnining the mirror analog side....how many people are actually watching analog 15...I would think by now, if you're watching OTA, you've figured out how to get the crystal clear digital signal....of course, it's no skin off my nose if they run the analog side, it just seems in the world we live in these days, a station would be wanting to save the cash...if they were running different programming on 15, yes, leave it up on analog until they can afford a digital transmitter, but that is not the case.

I did some syferin' of my gazinta's...:D
WNYA-15 is running 15 kw, 15,000 watts...amps=watts/volts
That turns out to be 125 amps, or actually, 125 Ah (amp/hours)...125 amps every hour...your 26" LCD TV runs 74 watts, or 1.09 Ah...it's like WNYA-15 is running a little over 114 of the above TV's simultaniously...24 hours a day....
That's a lot of power to duplicate the same programming...and then calculating the cost of that power?....
I don't know...I just don't get it....but it IS very interesting....:eek:

habscolts

09-19-10, 08:31 PM

Does anyone know what physical channels that WRGB and WNYT are located in for clear QAM. Windows Media Center didn't pick them up in the scan despite picking everything else.

ebo

09-19-10, 10:53 PM

No guarantee on how recent the information is but according to the SiliconDust Lineup Server (http://www.silicondust.com/support/channels/) they're both on cable channel 110 in my area.

110-1 WRGBDT
110-2 WRGBDT2
110-7 WNYTDT
110-8 WNYTWX

Try your own zip code; it might be different where you are.

Edit: I just compared the thumbnail of WNYTWX (11:58 AM, no day given) against their current broadcast and the forecasts are identical. That tells me the scan was done about noon Sunday 9/19.

W1KNE

09-21-10, 01:41 AM

I did some syferin' of my gazinta's...:D
WNYA-15 is running 15 kw, 15,000 watts...amps=watts/volts
That turns out to be 125 amps, or actually, 125 Ah (amp/hours)...125 amps every hour...your 26" LCD TV runs 74 watts, or 1.09 Ah...it's like WNYA-15 is running a little over 114 of the above TV's simultaniously...24 hours a day....
That's a lot of power to duplicate the same programming...and then calculating the cost of that power?....
I don't know...I just don't get it....but it IS very interesting....:eek:

Flaw in your post! :p WNYA-CA is running 15kW ERP. That is the power AFTER the antenna gain! (Actually the analog license has them at 28kW). The antenna is a Andrew ALP16L2-HSWR. It is a 16 bay antenna.
The licensed transmitter power is ACTUALLY 730 watts. So the actual amount of power WNYA transmitter is pushing is 730W. :D

kb2fzq

09-21-10, 06:11 AM

Flaw in your post! :p WNYA-CA is running 15kW ERP. That is the power AFTER the antenna gain! (Actually the analog license has them at 28kW). The antenna is a Andrew ALP16L2-HSWR. It is a 16 bay antenna.
The licensed transmitter power is ACTUALLY 730 watts. So the actual amount of power WNYA transmitter is pushing is 730W. :D

Only a fellow Ham could cut me off at the knees...:D
Yes, I did forget the reference to ERP, and your figures, considering your profession, are probably quite correct....
730W is no where near power consumption as I betrayed it, and I guess the :eek: is uncalled for....but I still don't understand mirror transmissions...
Thanks for setting me straight...;)

EDIT:
Question? The FCC Query page shows the latest app for a CP Mod, referencing 15 KW in 2009....does the original licence for 28 KW, dated 2004, superceed any more current applications? Or does the approval of the CP Mod negate the original license? And why would they ask for a construction permit mod with a reference to 15 KW? Might it have something to do with a digital transition on channel 15? I've been wondering about that for a while.....

Tower Guy

09-21-10, 08:54 AM

But I still don't understand mirror transmissions...

I agree. What programming would suit that channel?

The Cool TV.....a niche clientele.
Spanish..........low demographic. (on paper)
.2 Network......never got off the ground.
An LPTV data network.

WNYA-CA is a class A and must have some local programming.

kb2fzq

09-26-10, 05:48 AM

I agree. What programming would suit that channel?

The Cool TV.....a niche clientele.
Spanish..........low demographic. (on paper)
.2 Network......never got off the ground.
An LPTV data network.

WNYA-CA is a class A and must have some local programming.

I don't remember seeing any local programming on 51-1, such as news or talk, except for local advertising, Fred...
It seems to be just a re-broadcast of the "My Channel" down-link...
I've always said it would be neat to have a 24 hour financial sub-channnel somewhere's...I'd bet that would get alot of attention with the way the money world is acting these days...
But that said, 51 should have sub channels available, they just aren't using them??

Tower Guy

09-27-10, 10:33 AM

I don't remember seeing any local programming on 51-1, such as news or talk, except for local advertising.

But that said, 51 should have sub channels available, they just aren't using them??

The last that I knew there was a locally produced show that runs on WNYA on Sunday mornings.

Subchannels on channel 51 would require some equipment, but really need a business plan.

timick1

09-27-10, 12:46 PM

Hello,
I recently dropped Time Warner and signed up for Direct TV (had it installed last week). Is our local CW (channel 45) supposed to be in HD? I'm not getting it in HD.

Davird_Jr

09-28-10, 07:06 AM

Hello,
I recently dropped Time Warner and signed up for Direct TV (had it installed last week). Is our local CW (channel 45) supposed to be in HD? I'm not getting it in HD.

It is in HD, but not all programming is HD. Ch 6 news, Mets games and some shows are HD AFAIK. Can't get it on DISH Sat either and OTA is near impossible unless you are in a sweet spot.

gfbaseball22

09-28-10, 07:25 AM

No, CW and WNYA are not in HD on Directv unless you have an older receiver that has an antenna input.

BruceS

09-29-10, 03:10 AM

Or you have one of the newer HDDVR's and add an AM21 as well.

The AM21 allows the newer HDDVR's to record OTA channels.

timick1

09-29-10, 10:49 AM

Or you have one of the newer HDDVR's and add an AM21 as well.

The AM21 allows the newer HDDVR's to record OTA channels.

I might have to order one of these... thanks for the info.

I need to find out if I can get OTA signal via a simple window mount type antenna.

The Hound

09-29-10, 09:37 PM

Go to http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29 and enter your address.
This will give you an idea of what to expect.

kb2fzq

09-30-10, 03:39 AM

The last that I knew there was a locally produced show that runs on WNYA on Sunday mornings.

Subchannels on channel 51 would require some equipment, but really need a business plan.

It appears to me, that they are happy with what they have....I wouldn't expect any expansion any time soon, IMHO...
I'll have to look on Sunday morning for a local...anytime I tune in mornings, it's usually wall to wall infomercials....

ebo

09-30-10, 09:14 AM

I'll have to look on Sunday morning for a local...anytime I tune in mornings, it's usually wall to wall infomercials....I hope you're up early. They have "Vermont Live" at 6:00 AM on Saturday and Sunday. At 6:30 on Sunday they have "Real Conversations" described simply as "Talk." No indication if it's local.

kb2fzq

10-02-10, 03:15 AM

I hope you're up early. They have "Vermont Live" at 6:00 AM on Saturday and Sunday. At 6:30 on Sunday they have "Real Conversations" described simply as "Talk." No indication if it's local.

I'm usually "on the job" at 5 a.m., of course, days off, the eyes pop open early too...I'll check it out on 51-1 at 6 tomorrow morning...day off...

W1KNE

10-13-10, 01:03 AM

Question for you Time Warner subscribers there in Albany.

Does TW Albany offer Non DVR, HD Cable boxes?
or do they only offer DVR HD boxes?

tonymil

10-13-10, 02:56 PM

I'm looking for someone to calibrate my Panny plasma, I'm in Latham. Any suggestions?

BruceS

10-14-10, 03:01 AM

I'm looking for someone to calibrate my Panny plasma, I'm in Latham. Any suggestions?

Try Hippo's in Stuyvesant Plaza.

If they can't do it themselves, they should be able to suggest someone who can.

You can reach them at 482-1862.

The Hound

10-14-10, 03:10 AM

Towne Tv in Rotterdam has a calibrater on site.
I have dealt with them in the past and find them to be knowledgeable and cheaper then Hipo's.
You realize you can do almost as good a job yourself with the Avia disc for $30 dollars.
A pro calibration will run you $250 or more.

timick1

10-14-10, 08:23 AM

tonymil

10-14-10, 11:24 AM

+1 on Towne TV.

Thanks for the advice, I'll look into them.

jeffbrad

10-19-10, 06:16 PM

I'm about 70 miles south of the tower (Hyde Park / Poughkeepsie). I've been using a CM4228 with a rotor and a CM Titan II 7778 preamp for a dozen or so years.

Like many others, my reception changed with the channel movement for the change to digital. I lost WRGB & WXXA when they moved to low VHF. The other broadcast networks continue to come in quite well.

I do get the 480 feed for CBS on 45-3 which is better than nothing but is no way to watch the out of market NFL games.

I cannot get anything at all for WXXA. Well, I get up to 46% signal strength but no hint of a picture. Now, I have no way to watch any Fox sports broadcasts.

With the bickering going on between Fox (NewsCorp) and Cablevison I thought it might be time to check Albany again.

Has there been any new/recent talk about either of those channels moving to UHF?

Is my best chance for a signal going to be to add a VHF antenna away from the UHF one and connect it to the amp mounted on the mast for the UHF?

As always, thanks for any help/suggestions.

flampher

10-19-10, 09:38 PM

Is that your only antenna? I have that same antenna for UHF and mix it with a Blonder Tounge High band and a Ch 6 Yagi. I am at least 70 miles away and would have to say WRGB RF6, and WXXA (RF 7) are among my strongest channels. The 4228 is UHF only antenna and will do you no good for the VHF band. There are a number of Broadband antennas (UHF/VHF) available at a very reasonable. price. Your preamp is good for both bands however.
I do not know how you were ever getting WRGB on that antenna, as they are broadcasting on the same low band frequency now, and have a lot of power. Maybe you are in a real good spot, if so, a different antenna might work good for you

Good luck,

F

Opps. I just noticed your last sentence. I am not sure if that preamp has separate U/V inputs or not. If it does you could add a separate antenna and input it on the VHF connector of the preamp. if not, there are UHF/VHF mixing devises available for only a few dollars, and you could mix them before the preamp.

Tower Guy

10-20-10, 08:53 AM

Is my best chance for a signal going to be to add a VHF antenna away from the UHF one and connect it to the amp mounted on the mast for the UHF?

Cheapest solution CS-600 antenna
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=CS600&d=AntennaCraft-CS600-Suburban-VHF-FM-HD-TV-Antenna-%28CS600%29&c=TV%20Antennas&sku=

Best solution HD 5030 antenna
http://www.summitsource.com/winegard-hd5030-vhf-fm-tv-antenna-hd5030-prostar-pr5030-hdtv-17-element-outdoor-local-offair-and-fm-digital-signal-rooftop-aerial-75-ohm-red-zone-part-hd5030-pr5030-with-50-ft-coax-cable-p-4550.html

In either case the 7778 preamp has an internal switch that allows it to combine VHF and UHF antennas.

NervousCat

10-21-10, 11:02 AM

NervousCat

10-21-10, 12:37 PM

Also if you get a VHF only antenna, make sure the FM trap on the CM 7778 preamp is switched on. I believe there is 50,000 watts of power coming from 101.5 FM WPDH on the big tower they use on Illinois Mountain (across the river in Highland).

NervousCat

10-21-10, 12:44 PM

Best solution HD 5030 antenna
http://www.summitsource.com/winegard-hd5030-vhf-fm-tv-antenna-hd5030-prostar-pr5030-hdtv-17-element-outdoor-local-offair-and-fm-digital-signal-rooftop-aerial-75-ohm-red-zone-part-hd5030-pr5030-with-50-ft-coax-cable-p-4550.html

Summit source indicates antenna is no longer available for purchase, try here (http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=HD-5030&d=Winegard%20HD%205030%20Prostar%201000%20VHFFM%20TV%20Anten na%20(HD5030)&c=TV%20Antennas&sku=HD-5030&utm_campaign=daily_run&utm_medium=organic&utm_source=google_base_03_TV_Antennas) instead.

jeffbrad

10-21-10, 11:39 PM

Thanks folks for the antenna help. I believe I picked the HD 5030 antenna a while ago when I first lost those two channels. Glad to see it's recommended. If this contract war between Cablevision and Fox goes on much longer I may be climbing up on the roof again (gave my only ladder to one of the kids)

No one offered any hope/rumor that those two stations might be planning a move to to the UHF frequency. That's disappointing but I really didn't expect any based on the response after the initial move to VHF for the digital transition.

Thanks again for the antenna help. I'll post the results when it's up.

Jeff

NervousCat

10-22-10, 08:32 AM

There was a discussion a while ago on this thread about WRGB filing an application for a digital replacement translator to fill-in some of the coverage-loss south of the Rip Van Winkle Bridge (Catskill-Hudson). I remember the location for this low power digital translator was going to be in Kingston (someone on this forum pointed out it was near the NYS Thruway exit) and the channel was UHF 24.

As one former president used to say, I feel your pain. We have Cablevision too and lost WNYW and WWOR. Two months ago our UHF and VHF antennas were smashed by half of the maple tree that fell down in a storm (http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Avis=BK&Dato=20100816&Kategori=NEWS&Lopenr=8160802&Ref=PH). Tree branches broke the boom on each antenna and weakened the eve mounting brackets on the side of the house. So we ended up with two smashed antennas on a mast that was leaning like the Tower of Pisa. The tree removal people knocked the mast down. And this was supposed to be our backup when cable goes out. Now I need a backup for my backup. ;-)

Tower Guy

10-22-10, 09:14 AM

No one offered any hope/rumor that those two stations might be planning a move to to the UHF frequency.

It seems that the FCC would prefer that broadcasters move to VHF to make room for broadband services.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/458783-FCC_Tees_Up_Initial_Broadcast_Spectrum_Reclamation_Moves_.ph p?rssid=20104

"The FCC will also propose finding ways to improve DTV reception on the VHF band (chs. 2-13) so more broadcasters can be moved there and out of the UHF band (14-51), which is better suited than UHF for wireless broadband. Of course, it is also better suited to DTV broadcasts, as broadcasters found during the DTV transition. That is why the FCC needs to find ways to make it more attractive. "UHF has characteristics that are stronger for mobile broadband," said Genachowski, "and we want to look at proposals to improve VHF so it is more desirable for digital broadcasting so that we can end up with as much UHF spectrum as possible released for mobile broadband and broadcasters being very comfortable with VHF."

NervousCat

10-22-10, 09:17 AM

No one offered any hope/rumor that those two stations might be planning a move to to the UHF frequency. That's disappointing but I really didn't expect any based on the response after the initial move to VHF for the digital transition.

Found an old posting about the WRGB LP translator for Kingston here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=18491838#post18491838).

ebo

10-22-10, 10:49 AM

There was a discussion a while ago on this thread about WRGB filing an application for a digital replacement translator to fill-in some of the coverage-loss south of the Rip Van Winkle Bridge (Catskill-Hudson). I remember the location for this low power digital translator was going to be in Kingston (someone on this forum pointed out it was near the NYS Thruway exit) and the channel was UHF 24.If you ask over in WRGB's Digital Television Switchover forum (http://www.cbs6albany.com/share/forums/?plckForumPage=Forum&plckForumId=Cat%3a956f56b5-71a2-4dfe-b14a-069902858962Forum%3ab6afd8cf-3c20-4e52-9d58-7b633a4e87ff) I expect their CE will tell you the current status of that. He may also know about other stations' repeater plans, especially if they've gotten as far as FCC applications. He regularly gives advice on what's needed in various areas to receive WRGB and other stations.

NervousCat

10-22-10, 11:35 AM

I went over to their forum and started a new thread (http://www.cbs6albany.com/share/forums/?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat:956f56b5-71a2-4dfe-b14a-069902858962Forum:b6afd8cf-3c20-4e52-9d58-7b633a4e87ffDiscussion:c61c3dfa-4f8f-4be6-ae3e-0f4a95520154) on Channel 24.

There was a older thread (http://www.cbs6albany.com/share/forums/?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat:956f56b5-71a2-4dfe-b14a-069902858962Forum:b6afd8cf-3c20-4e52-9d58-7b633a4e87ffDiscussion:5b280fa6-75fb-46d0-8eea-616a329b4112) over there, but nothing new posted in six months.

NervousCat

10-22-10, 02:46 PM

If this contract war between Cablevision and Fox goes on much longer I may be climbing up on the roof again (gave my only ladder to one of the kids)

For those of us downstate like you who have Cablevision, here's some news that FCC is getting more involved.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/entertainmentnewsbuzz/2010/10/fcc-starting-to-wade-into-fox-cablevision-battle.html

Keep the ladder handy...

Davird_Jr

10-22-10, 08:25 PM

It seems that the FCC would prefer that broadcasters move to VHF to make room for broadband services.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/458783-FCC_Tees_Up_Initial_Broadcast_Spectrum_Reclamation_Moves_.ph p?rssid=20104

"The FCC will also propose finding ways to improve DTV reception on the VHF band (chs. 2-13) so more broadcasters can be moved there and out of the UHF band (14-51), which is better suited than UHF for wireless broadband. Of course, it is also better suited to DTV broadcasts, as broadcasters found during the DTV transition. That is why the FCC needs to find ways to make it more attractive. "UHF has characteristics that are stronger for mobile broadband," said Genachowski, "and we want to look at proposals to improve VHF so it is more desirable for digital broadcasting so that we can end up with as much UHF spectrum as possible released for mobile broadband and broadcasters being very comfortable with VHF."

At their distance from transmitter, I would think if they install a good VHF antenna, that they will be happier with the result than if 6 moved to UHF, no? I'm just under 50 miles at my location and VHF is much more solid here than UHF. But they're in the valley there so it could be different.

NervousCat

10-22-10, 08:54 PM

The VHF Lo/Hi combo antenna covering channels 2-13 is becoming a thing of the past. Many of these antennas have been discontinued and are getting harder to find these days.

Trip in VA

10-22-10, 09:08 PM

AntennaCraft CS600.

- Trip

bwb518

10-22-10, 09:09 PM

Is WXXA (7-1) off the air? I haven't seen it in two or three days.. I haven't moved my antenna at all either and I'm not far from the tower site...

NervousCat

10-22-10, 10:31 PM

AntennaCraft CS600.

- Trip

That may be a good choice for folks in Southwest VT looking to add a VHF antenna (as you may have heard the phrase: "Vermont ain't flat"). The CS600 was mentioned in this article for a special case of mounting the antenna low and angled up to take advantage of knife edge refraction coming over the mountains.

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/?p=134

It was also featured in another article for a location in Saugerties, NY.

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/?p=36

kb2fzq

10-23-10, 04:39 AM

If you ask over in WRGB's Digital Television Switchover forum (http://www.cbs6albany.com/share/forums/?plckForumPage=Forum&plckForumId=Cat%3a956f56b5-71a2-4dfe-b14a-069902858962Forum%3ab6afd8cf-3c20-4e52-9d58-7b633a4e87ff) I expect their CE will tell you the current status of that. He may also know about other stations' repeater plans, especially if they've gotten as far as FCC applications. He regularly gives advice on what's needed in various areas to receive WRGB and other stations.

Why don't ya just ask Tower Guy what's up with WRGB...it'll save you moving back and forth between forums.....:D

kb2fzq

10-23-10, 04:58 AM

At their distance from transmitter, I would think if they install a good VHF antenna, that they will be happier with the result than if 6 moved to UHF, no? I'm just under 50 miles at my location and VHF is much more solid here than UHF. But they're in the valley there so it could be different.

IMO, I doubt any stations in the Albany market are going to be changing their RF channels anytime soon.....unless the FCC forces the issue...
If you read the quote at the top of this page, it seems the broadbanders are pressuring the the FCC for more bandwidth, and, of course, the FCC will then lean on the broadcasters, to aquire the UHF bands...broadbanders don't want VHF-hi/lo because of it's propogation properties....so hand over that UHF, mister!!
Meanwhile, after who knows how much money the Feds spent to move us from analog to digital, now they want to take away the most efficient part of digital TV, and bunch us all into channels 2 thru 13....just goes to show....money talks, and BS walks...
And if this DOES happen, unneeded cost will arise, UHF stations will have to purchase VHF transmitters, all you need is a UHF antenna now? The one you paid for and is working great? Forget it, throw it out and buy a new VHF antenna....it makes no sense to me....

Davird_Jr

10-23-10, 06:49 AM

That may be a good choice for folks in Southwest VT looking to add a VHF antenna (as you may have heard the phrase: "Vermont ain't flat"). The CS600 was mentioned in this article for a special case of mounting the antenna low and angled up to take advantage of knife edge refraction coming over the mountains.

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/?p=134

It was also featured in another article for a location in Saugerties, NY.

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/?p=36

A bit aggravating to read how he gets WCWN there when I'm not far from there and can't get enough of it to keep a signal on the TV. A little change in location makes a big difference I guess.

NervousCat

10-23-10, 07:41 AM

Why don't ya just ask Tower Guy what's up with WRGB...it'll save you moving back and forth between forums.....:D

Too late! Fred Lass at WRGB already posted a reply on the WRGB Forum (he mentions KB2FZQ in his reply :D )

Fred says:

Kingston has not yet been funded. Kingston is #2 on my list behind Pittsfield. (Sorry KB2FZQ)

He also mentions Freedom Communications is out of bankruptcy. According to Fred, the Pittsfield translator location is considered to be a low cost installation, which may be why it's getting higher priority than Kingston. More here (http://www.cbs6albany.com/share/forums/?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat:956f56b5-71a2-4dfe-b14a-069902858962Forum:b6afd8cf-3c20-4e52-9d58-7b633a4e87ffDiscussion:c61c3dfa-4f8f-4be6-ae3e-0f4a95520154&plckFindPostKey=Cat:956f56b5-71a2-4dfe-b14a-069902858962Forum:b6afd8cf-3c20-4e52-9d58-7b633a4e87ffDiscussion:c61c3dfa-4f8f-4be6-ae3e-0f4a95520154Post:98f9b57a-775f-461a-b0f6-0f3cab7f624b).

Davird_Jr

10-25-10, 01:36 PM

Too late! Fred Lass at WRGB already posted a reply on the WRGB Forum (he mentions KB2FZQ in his reply :D )

He also mentions Freedom Communications is out of bankruptcy, and that the Pittsfield location is a low cost installation, which may be why it's getting higher priority than Kingston. More here (http://www.cbs6albany.com/share/forums/?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat:956f56b5-71a2-4dfe-b14a-069902858962Forum:b6afd8cf-3c20-4e52-9d58-7b633a4e87ffDiscussion:c61c3dfa-4f8f-4be6-ae3e-0f4a95520154&plckFindPostKey=Cat:956f56b5-71a2-4dfe-b14a-069902858962Forum:b6afd8cf-3c20-4e52-9d58-7b633a4e87ffDiscussion:c61c3dfa-4f8f-4be6-ae3e-0f4a95520154Post:98f9b57a-775f-461a-b0f6-0f3cab7f624b).

Interesting. Anyone know the location of these towers? It says the Pittfield tower is in Hancock, MA. (Edit: disregard I reade the "more here". Jiminy Peak is less than a mile from me.)

SemiChemE

10-26-10, 01:56 AM

jeffbrad, I'd go with Tower Guy's best solution (HD 5030 antenna). I'm located 10 miles south of you and I know WXXA (Fox) is hard to get on VHF. WNYT (NBC) has the best signal into the Mid Hudson Valley on VHF Hi. SemiChemE is in the same vicinity as me so he might chime in with his two cents, but guessing that you are probably about 55 miles away from the antenna farm in the Helderbergs, the Winegard HD 5030 would have no trouble pulling in WRGB and is probably good enough for WXXA. The terrain is favorable for signals traveling down the Hudson River since you are on the East side of the river.

Here's my $0.02, I live just North of the Stop & Shop on Route-9 in Poughkeepsie. My reception results might be a little odd as my antennas are in the Attic, which adds an extra bit of complexity. I have 3 antennas: a Clearstream-4 (UHV) pointed at Albany, an extended YA-1713 (VHF-hi) pointed at NYC and a very old Taco VHF (Lo and Hi) antenna of unknown model pointed at Albany. The antennas all feed into a CM7777 pre-amp. The VHF antennas are connected through a series of splitters, hi/lo VHF splitters and A-B switches, such that I can switch between NYC and Albany for VHF-Hi, while VHF-Lo always comes from Albany. I get the following channels in order of "watchability":

WTBY-54 (27)
WRNN-48 (48)
W42AE-42(42) - Analog
WTEN-10 (26)
WMHT-17(34)
WPIX-11 (11)
WRGB-6 (6)
^^^^^^^^^---Strong Consistent Signals (above)
WCWN-45(43)
WNET-13 (13)
WNYT-13 (12)
^^^^^^^^^---Weak, but often watchable (above)
WNJU-47 (36)
WNJB-58 (8)
WABC-7 (7)
WNJN-50 (51)
WWOR-9 (38)
WFME-66 (29)
WCBS-2 (33)
^^^^^^^^^ --- Intermittent, spotty, or DX (above)

You'll notice that I don't receive WXXA-23 (7) at all. I suspect WABC and WXXA are bouncing around the attic and battling it out. WABC seems to have the upper hand, but most of the time neither comes in. It's also possible that these are getting clipped by the FM trap on the CM7777 or theVHF-Hi/Lo splitter.

NervousCat

10-26-10, 09:27 AM

That's pretty good considering it's an attic location. Since our rooftop antennas were damaged and taken down two months ago, I have a temporary antenna setup outside (Winegard HD-1080 mounted on a 5 foot mast driven into the ground next to the house). The HD-1080 was handy since I kept it around as a spare, so I have it as a backup to Cablevision service. As soon as coax cable enters the house, it feeds into a Kitztech KT200 (http://www.rabbitears.info/blog/index.php?post/2010/05/05/Kitztech-KT200) inline amp (yeah I wanted to see if their low noise claim was true even if I overpaid for it). The amp did help bring in WCWN from spotty to reliable. The antenna is aimed toward Albany, so I don't pick up any NYC stations.

WTBY-54 (27)
WRNN-48 (48)
W42AE-42 (42) - Analog
WTEN-10 (26)
WMHT-17 (34)
WCWN-45 (43)
^^^^^^^^^---Strong Consistent Signals (above)
WNYT-13 (12)
^^^^^^^^^---Intermittent, spotty, or DX (above)

I also cannot get WXXA Fox but the HD-1080 has a awful reputation for VHF anyway (negative gain on upper VHF). I used to be able to get WNYW-5 (44) out of NYC with the old Radio Shack U-100 UHF Yagi and CM 0264 preamp located on the roof before the storm damage. I realize the HD-1080 is not meant for use at this distance, but the UHF stations from Albany come in pretty good down here (after finding the right sweet spot and adding the inline amp).

Tower Guy

10-26-10, 02:39 PM

I have a temporary antenna setup outside (Winegard HD-1080 mounted on a 5 foot mast driven into the ground next to the house).

On VHF the HD-1080 has a front to back ratio of -3.1 db, meaning that it has a stronger rear lobe than front lobe. It could get WXXA when aimed at New York City.

http://www.winegarddirect.com/pdf/hd-1080-spec.pdf

In locations that have WABC and WXXA fighting each other on channel 7 I'd suggest stagger stacking. To do stagger stacking you need a pair of identical HI-VHF antennas such as Antennacraft's Y10-7-13 and Y5-7-13; or Winegard's YA1713, and then re-drill the booms for the needed offset. For channel 7 the mechanical offset should be 16 5/8", the extra length of RG-6 in the antenna offset toward the intended reception direction is 13 7/8". the vertical separation between the antennas should be in the 2'-4' range.

http://www.anarc.org/wtfda/stagger.pdf

The front to back ratio on channel 7 of the Winegard YA1713 is only 10.5 db. http://www.winegarddirect.com/pdf/spec_YA1713.pdf
The Antennacraft design is more than that at 13.5 or 16.5; and would be my choice for a VHF hi band antenna in Dutchess County.

SemiChemE

10-27-10, 11:05 PM

kb2fzq

10-28-10, 03:03 AM

You'll notice that I don't receive WXXA-23 (7) at all. I suspect WABC and WXXA are bouncing around the attic and battling it out. WABC seems to have the upper hand, but most of the time neither comes in. It's also possible that these are getting clipped by the FM trap on the CM7777 or theVHF-Hi/Lo splitter.

That's exactly what's happening....I have a similar issue with RF 13 WNYA and RF 13 WVNY...WNYA usually wins, but there are days when WVNY is just strong enough to desense WNYA to unwatchable..Rarely, I can see WVNY, but it's usually in a very heavy tropo duct scenario....
I don't know if there is much you can do about it other then move closer to NYC or closer to Albany....the stagger trick T.G. mentioned is worth a try, IMO...but you can't fudge with the measurements....it has to be exactly as the distances are described...and the antennas MUST be identical...

Tower Guy

10-28-10, 08:48 AM

Interesting, Holl_ands' simulations (http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/wgya1713/ya1713extboom;jsessionid=i6u03epcq1.tiger_s) put the F/B ratio of the YA-1713 at around 13-16 dB, so I wonder if there's really that much difference between the Antennacraft and the YA-1713. My "extended" antenna should be even a little better.

Well, that's a dilemma. The Winegard data is measured, the Holl_ands data is calculated, the Antennacraft data is not channel specific. Stagger stacking should make any of the three antennas work.

The other interference reduction trick is is to space two antennas apart horizontally so that the first null of the antenna pattern off the back of the antenna occurs in the direction of the interfering station. In the case of Poughkeepsie, TVfool shows the azimuth to WXXA as 356°, the azimuth to WABC as 183°. The difference of 173° implies that you use first null angle of 7°. Use the graph on this site: http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/ganging.html to find that the optimum horizontal stacking distance is a bit more than 80". In extreme cases 4 antennas can be used with both stagger stacking and horizontal stacking. That can reduce interference by more than 30 db.

The other dilemma is where to measure F/B ratio. In most cases it's measured at 180° from the front lobe. A more sophisticated measurement uses any lobe in the rear hemisphere. The Winegard Y1713 has a skewed rear lobe on channel 7 that actually aims more at WABC when the main lobe is aimed at WXXA. http://winegard.com/kbase/upload/ya-1713.pdf In Poughkeepsie, the antenna would perform slightly better if mounted upside down.

natehieter

11-05-10, 10:29 AM

Tower Guy

11-05-10, 11:12 AM

TVfool: "http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d81a39308ad9307"

I live in Dutchess County about 50 miles from Albany. My house is situated on a high ridge running NNE which I hoped would provide decent LOS signals from the Albany transmitters.

I recently purchased a Channel Master 3010 which the supplier billed as a "mid-range" antenna. However, upon arrival, I was quite discouraged by the "pie-shapes" displayed on the front of the box. I almost sent it back directly, but curiosity got the better of me.

Given that it was raining, I simply pointed the antenna out the downstairs window, generally north. Surprisingly, WTEN/WRNN/WTBY/WCWN/WMHT/WRGB all came through in gorgeous HD with no tweaking. Minor directional adjustments brought in WNYT. However, not even a glimmer from WXXA....

I am prepared to purchase a new antenna (and climb up the telephone pole on the edge of the cliff!) but after reading about possible FM/WTEN interference with the WXXA signal I am wary about just getting "better" interference.

I am currently considering WINEGARD HD7697P, but if there are experiments I should try first I am all ears (or "eyes" in this case).

You're right, the 3010 is too small for Dutchess County.

The HD7697P is not designed to work on channel 6.

Given your near success with the 3010, consider the Winegard HD7015. It has a 13 db F/B ratio on WXXA's channel 7.

I don't see an FM problem in Clinton Corners.

mikepier

11-05-10, 11:23 AM

TVfool: "http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d81a39308ad9307"

I live in Dutchess County about 50 miles from Albany. My house is situated on a high ridge running NNE which I hoped would provide decent LOS signals from the Albany transmitters.

I recently purchased a Channel Master 3010 which the supplier billed as a "mid-range" antenna. However, upon arrival, I was quite discouraged by the "pie-shapes" displayed on the front of the box. I almost sent it back directly, but curiosity got the better of me.

Given that it was raining, I simply pointed the antenna out the downstairs window, generally north. Surprisingly, WTEN/WRNN/WTBY/WCWN/WMHT/WRGB all came through in gorgeous HD with no tweaking. Minor directional adjustments brought in WNYT. However, not even a glimmer from WXXA....

I am prepared to purchase a new antenna (and climb up the telephone pole on the edge of the cliff!) but after reading about possible FM/WTEN interference with the WXXA signal I am wary about just getting "better" interference.

I am currently considering WINEGARD HD7697P, but if there are experiments I should try first I am all ears (or "eyes" in this case).

You really will not know until you bring the antenna outside on the roof and test it. You were aiming out the downstairs window. Height plays a big part in reception. Also make sure you are aiming the right end towards the transmitters. The small 2 elements in the front should point towards the transmitters, and the large "v" behind it
Upon looking at your TV fool results, you could really benefit by getting a bigger antenna and a rotor. It looks like you could pick up quite a few stations from different areas. The 3010 is OK, but they make better ones.

natehieter

11-05-10, 12:20 PM

You're right, the 3010 is too small for Dutchess County.

The HD7697P is not designed to work on channel 6.

Given your near success with the 3010, consider the Winegard HD7015. It has a 13 db F/B ratio on WXXA's channel 7.

I don't see an FM problem in Clinton Corners.

Thanks for the heads-up on the HD7697 and the alternate recommendation.

Looks like I'll have a rain-free weekend to explore my roof. Unless I suddenly get a clear signal I will order the HD7015 on Monday.

Thanks for the swift responses!

Davird_Jr

11-05-10, 04:28 PM

Looking for recomendations for a UHF antenna to add to my setup to get the Channel 19 translator off of Jiminy Peak. I assume I can join it to the UHF antenna I'm already using with a simple splitter? Then from the splitter to my CM7777. According to Fred Lass the translator is hoped to go live before the snow flies, well too late for that here, but before the snow piles up anyway.

kb2fzq

11-06-10, 04:17 AM

TVfool: "http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d81a39308ad9307"

I live in Dutchess County about 50 miles from Albany. My house is situated on a high ridge running NNE which I hoped would provide decent LOS signals from the Albany transmitters.

I recently purchased a Channel Master 3010 which the supplier billed as a "mid-range" antenna. However, upon arrival, I was quite discouraged by the "pie-shapes" displayed on the front of the box. I almost sent it back directly, but curiosity got the better of me.

Given that it was raining, I simply pointed the antenna out the downstairs window, generally north. Surprisingly, WTEN/WRNN/WTBY/WCWN/WMHT/WRGB all came through in gorgeous HD with no tweaking. Minor directional adjustments brought in WNYT. However, not even a glimmer from WXXA....

I am prepared to purchase a new antenna (and climb up the telephone pole on the edge of the cliff!) but after reading about possible FM/WTEN interference with the WXXA signal I am wary about just getting "better" interference.

I am currently considering WINEGARD HD7697P, but if there are experiments I should try first I am all ears (or "eyes" in this case).

If you are new to this "hobby", you must always consider the weather with reception, such in my casee, with rain several stations come in better, this is not cable or satellite, there are good days and bad days....don't get discouraged....just an F.Y.I.

NervousCat

11-07-10, 07:19 AM

Now that you mentioned it, I hadn't really thought of OTA TV reception as being a "hobby", but I guess it is. I used to be active in CB Radio as a hobby over 30 years ago (shows my age doesn't it). OTA is kind of like what CB Radio was back then - without the truckers. :D

So I guess somewhere during the last thirty years, OTA TV has gone from being a "necessity" to a "hobby". I remember helping my Dad replace our TV antenna back in 1983 to improve our poor reception. The neighbors had cable TV, which we viewed as a "luxury" so we opted for a bigger antenna.

The rooftop TV antennas in my neighborhood have been gone for decades here in Dutchess County. One house down the street still has an old TV mast, but it has been sawed off to fit a satellite dish. I have to drive a mile or two before I come across another TV antenna - and judging by the bent/missing elements, the antennas the remain on rooftops looked like they were abandoned for OTA reception decades ago. Yup, it's a hobby now.

NervousCat

11-07-10, 04:09 PM

I've said it before, but I still believe adjacent channel interference between WAE42 and WCWN (43) may be causing reception issues for some of us in Poughkeepsie. My experience is that I have two tuners. One usually is able to pick up WCWN, although the signal strength fluctuates a lot (from 60% to 0% depending on the day), but the other can never even detect it. Since these are using the same antenna's and the second tuner usually does a little better with all of the other channels around here, the only explanation I can come up with is that second receiver is more sensitive to adjacent channel interference.

For me, WCWN's signal went from solid with no dropouts to no signal at all in the last two weeks. The WCWN signal has been swinging wildly on my signal meter lately. Then again, the unstable reception of WCWN could be from this weekend's windy weather. I noticed a drop in their signal since the leaves started falling from the trees. However from past forum postings, I've noticed other folks have a improvement in their reception when the leaves are down.

Davird_Jr

11-07-10, 04:49 PM

djb61230

11-08-10, 03:45 PM

It was perfect here - including the score of the game!!

kb2fzq

11-09-10, 03:17 AM

For me, WCWN's signal went from solid with no dropouts to no signal at all in the last two weeks. The WCWN signal has been swinging wildly on my signal meter lately. Then again, the unstable reception of WCWN could be from this weekend's windy weather. I noticed a drop in their signal since the leaves started falling from the trees. However from past forum postings, I've noticed other folks have a improvement in their reception when the leaves are down.

While we were sitting quietly all summer, smiling ear to ear, saying, "boy, this OTA is great!", the weather has been effecting the signal, for much of the time enhancing our reception with tropospheric ducting....well, the weather has gone cold and dry, and the ducting becomes less and less likely as we head for the dead of winter...what you may be seeing is the un-enhanced signal, what is really hitting the antenna without Mother Nature giving the signal a boost....with the leaves off the trees, a fractured signal may have changed, causing heart-ache....as I've mentioned before, this is not cable or satellite, it's hit or miss in many cases...this may be the perfect time to upgrade your system, knowing over the next 6 months, this is what you'll get for a normal signal(s), and a better antenna or pre-amp may be necessary....

Davird_Jr

11-10-10, 09:11 AM

it was perfect here - including the score of the game!!

hmmmm

ProTuber

11-10-10, 02:09 PM

Watching NY Giants on Fox and have been getting dropouts in the signal. It is happening on OTA and on Satellite. Anyone else notice this? It was doing the same thing the other night while watching Bones and Fringe, also both OTA and DISH satellite.For me, the picture froze about a half dozen times for approx. 3-5 seconds each during the game (Time Warner/8300HD DVR)

Davird_Jr

11-10-10, 08:23 PM

For me, the picture froze about a half dozen times for approx. 3-5 seconds each during the game (Time Warner/8300HD DVR)

That's what we were seeing too. Thanks.

NervousCat

11-13-10, 10:29 PM

While we were sitting quietly all summer, smiling ear to ear, saying, "boy, this OTA is great!", the weather has been effecting the signal, for much of the time enhancing our reception with tropospheric ducting....well, the weather has gone cold and dry, and the ducting becomes less and less likely as we head for the dead of winter...what you may be seeing is the un-enhanced signal, what is really hitting the antenna without Mother Nature giving the signal a boost....with the leaves off the trees, a fractured signal may have changed, causing heart-ache....as I've mentioned before, this is not cable or satellite, it's hit or miss in many cases...this may be the perfect time to upgrade your system, knowing over the next 6 months, this is what you'll get for a normal signal(s), and a better antenna or pre-amp may be necessary....

I didn't know tropospheric ducting happens on UHF channels. I remember seeing "skip" on VHF before the digital changeover on some summer nights. When the old VHF antenna was aimed at NYC, sometimes it would also pick up Philly analog channels 3, 6, and 10 for an hour or two - then it would fade away back into static.

Another question for you - why are my TV signals usually stronger at night than during the day? Is it also for the same reason - ducting?

Trip in VA

11-14-10, 07:50 AM

NervousCat

11-14-10, 08:51 AM

That's not skip, that's tropo.

Skip is when you see stations from the Midwest on channels 2-6.

- Trip

Oh yeah, that right. Skip involves bouncing off the ionosphere for super long distances. Ham radio guys like you, Trip, probably have first hand experience with that on the amateur HF bands.

This probably qualifies as skip. I remember one day years ago, I had a station from Miami (WFOR Channel 4) come in while I was watching WNBC (which we could receive everyday from Poughkeepsie with our VHF rooftop antenna). Both analog signals began to blend in together for a short time until WFOR was strong enough to replace WNBC completely. It didn't last long - maybe 10 or 15 minutes - and then WNBC came back as usual.

Trip in VA

11-14-10, 10:41 PM

That definitely sounds like e-skip to me.

And my experience with e-skip actually is more from TV than anything else. I remember in 2003 or 2004, the e-skip was so reliable and so consistent that every afternoon for more than a month, KPRC-2 from Houston would come in and be watchable, and stay in until late in the evening.

- Trip

kb2fzq

11-15-10, 04:27 AM

Oh yeah, that right. Skip involves bouncing off the ionosphere for super long distances. Ham radio guys like you, Trip, probably have first hand experience with that on the amateur HF bands.

This probably qualifies as skip. I remember one day years ago, I had a station from Miami (WFOR Channel 4) come in while I was watching WNBC (which we could receive everyday from Poughkeepsie with our VHF rooftop antenna). Both analog signals began to blend in together for a short time until WFOR was strong enough to replace WNBC completely. It didn't last long - maybe 10 or 15 minutes - and then WNBC came back as usual.

Here is a good example of what is happening to many people here and on other forums....analog signals had the capability to ride over each other, causing ghosting of one local channel and a distant channel....together...
But, now, with digital, the data streams from each channel become corrupt and the TV tuner can not determine which is which, so the result is a black TV screen until one channel is strong enough to win out, but even then, the signal quality will be poor for that winning channel on your TV, due to interference from the other channel....I think this is happening a lot out in TV land, with people just unaware of what's really happening...

kb2fzq

11-15-10, 04:55 AM

I didn't know tropospheric ducting happens on UHF channels. I remember seeing "skip" on VHF before the digital changeover on some summer nights. When the old VHF antenna was aimed at NYC, sometimes it would also pick up Philly analog channels 3, 6, and 10 for an hour or two - then it would fade away back into static.

Another question for you - why are my TV signals usually stronger at night than during the day? Is it also for the same reason - ducting?

Without going into an RF lesson, I would suggest Googling tropshereic ducting, this info will blow your mind...but yes, ducting occurs on VHF and UHF, only UHF tends to be less dramatic then with VHF...
Higher signals at night may be the result of the lack of ducting, not allowing a distant station from interfering with a local station..ducting usually happens early morning or (rarely) just before dark...it's effect will fade as the sun rises....
Another thing that might contribute to better signals at night is that many AM radio stations are required to reduce power at night because of skip, if there are signals mixing, and/or are in a harmonic with a TV station frequency, the reduced power might let the TV signal thru to your antenna without interference....but that is purely conjecture on my part...

natehieter

11-15-10, 10:13 AM

TVfool: "http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d81a39308ad9307"

I live in Dutchess County about 50 miles from Albany. My house is situated on a high ridge running NNE which I hoped would provide decent LOS signals from the Albany transmitters.

I recently purchased a Channel Master 3010 which the supplier billed as a "mid-range" antenna. However, upon arrival, I was quite discouraged by the "pie-shapes" displayed on the front of the box. I almost sent it back directly, but curiosity got the better of me.

Given that it was raining, I simply pointed the antenna out the downstairs window, generally north. Surprisingly, WTEN/WRNN/WTBY/WCWN/WMHT/WRGB all came through in gorgeous HD with no tweaking. Minor directional adjustments brought in WNYT. However, not even a glimmer from WXXA....

I am prepared to purchase a new antenna (and climb up the telephone pole on the edge of the cliff!) but after reading about possible FM/WTEN interference with the WXXA signal I am wary about just getting "better" interference.

I am currently considering WINEGARD HD7697P, but if there are experiments I should try first I am all ears (or "eyes" in this case).

Thanks to your help I have successfully purchased a Winegard HD7015 and I am enjoying 100% signal strength from all the "relevant" channels.

Unfortunately, WXXA (fox) continues to befuddle me. The signal strength is perfect. The picture quality is great (although SLIGHTLY worse than the NBC/CBS/ABC HD channels). But....... The screen form-factor is 4:3 as opposed to 16:9!

The picture quality appears "too-good" for SD (and the sub-channel name includes -HD), yet the 4:3 form-factor would argue otherwise.

Did I miss a WXXA sub-channel in my scan? Or is this expected behavior for OTA Fox HD?

NervousCat

11-15-10, 11:30 AM

And my experience with e-skip actually is more from TV than anything else. I remember in 2003 or 2004, the e-skip was so reliable and so consistent that every afternoon for more than a month, KPRC-2 from Houston would come in and be watchable, and stay in until late in the evening.

- Trip

Without going into an RF lesson, I would suggest Googling tropshereic ducting, this info will blow your mind...but yes, ducting occurs on VHF and UHF, only UHF tends to be less dramatic then with VHF...

Thanks kb2fzq and Trip for the propagation education. :D

One Google result gave me a terrific link that explains tropo ducting, e-skip and anything else Mother Nature has to offer.

http://www.anarc.org/wtfda/propagation.htm

ebo

11-15-10, 12:40 PM

natehieter:
WXXA broadcasts two subchannels. Their main one, WXXA-HD, is 1280x720p and carries Fox network programming. The other, WXXA-US, is 720x480i and carries Untamed Sports. Of course any HD channel will sometimes air 4:3 SD programs. 16:9 SD and 4:3 HD are also possible but less common (back when PBS had a separate HD channel, about half their shows were actually 16:9 SD). Annoyingly, 16:9 SD shows are often shown windowboxed, i.e. letterboxed in a 4:3 window in a 16:9 frame.

I don't think WXXA can originate HD programming but they can pass it through from Fox. I don't know if they can handle HD syndicated shows. Tonight (Monday) "House" and "Lie to Me" should be in 16:9 HD.

natehieter

11-15-10, 03:40 PM

I don't think WXXA can originate HD programming but they can pass it through from Fox. I don't know if they can handle HD syndicated shows. Tonight (Monday) "House" and "Lie to Me" should be in 16:9 HD.

Thanks for the swift response! I'll check it out tonight.... Just need final confirmation that everything is hooked up correctly.

Getting close to "cutting the cord"!!!

kb2fzq

11-16-10, 03:54 AM

The Hound

11-16-10, 09:56 PM

getting close to "cutting the cord"!!!
do it, do it, do it!

seaverd

11-21-10, 06:34 AM

I could use some help/advice on improving and distributing my OTA HD signal.

My antenna for most of my channels (pointed to the tower in the Helderbergs is the monoprice indoor/outdoor VHF/UHF antenna. See link: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=109&cp_id=10901&cs_id=1090102&p_id=4730&seq=1&format=6#faq

I also have a homemade 4 bay bow tie type antenna pointed towards Amsterdam to pick up channel 50 (the Ion network). Here is a link for the homemade antenna http://uhfhdtvantenna.blogspot.com/

I am using a Channel 50 Jointenna to combine these two antennas and I receive Channel 50 with no issues. Both antennas are located in my attic.

Here is my problem I need to split my signal to 6 devices (2 TVs and 4 HDhomerun TV tuners). I am currently using a two way splitter and a 4 way splitter (these are in series) so I know I am killing my signal strength. I don't know if I should be using a distribution amplifier like a channel master 3418 or a preamplifier like the Channel Master 7778 or should I get a better antenna??? WRGB signal does drop for me - I am going to play with my antenna orientation to see if I can improve it. Attached is a tvfool plot for my house. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/9575/radardigital.jpg

Tower Guy

11-21-10, 09:43 AM

should I get a better antenna???

The antenna that you have is too small to be effective on channel 6. There are multiple solutions with different costs and complexity tradeoffs.

Cheapest

Antennacraft CS600 with HLSJ or UVSJ to combine antennas using both of your existing antennas

Simplest

Winegard HD7015 to replace the Monoprice antenna and existing homebrew/Jointenna for WYPX

seaverd

11-21-10, 11:51 AM

O.K. I'll check into the antennas you recommended. What is the best way to split the signal to all of my devices? Should I use something like the channel master 3418 instead of the cheap passive splitters?

Thanks,

Dan

seaverd

11-21-10, 12:04 PM

Tower Guy

11-21-10, 04:29 PM

Another quick follow up...Are you saying if I get the HD7015 that I would be able to get all of these stations with one antenna? If so what direction do I point it in? I saw that you listed this as the simplest option...do you think this is the smartest option?

Thanks,

Dan

The HD7015 would get everything except WYPX. Use it with any UHF antenna plus the Jointenna that you have. Passive splitters may be sufficient. If not, you've picked the right distribution amplifier.

SemiChemE

11-24-10, 01:31 PM

Tower Guy

11-24-10, 01:42 PM

I mean no disrespect to Tower Guy, but given the strength of the various signals at your location, I probably wouldn't worry about getting a better antenna. I would instead connect your existing set-up to a single TV. Assuming that you get reasonable reception, you should be OK to use a distribution amplifier to split the signal to the various devices. You could go with a pre-amp like the CM7777 instead, but the distribution amp will be cheaper and probably easier to configure. As for splitting the signal, my experience is that standard low-cost splitters work quite well.

The 7777 preamp is never helpful in a LOS location, it overloads too easily. In any event, the Monoprice antenna has a built in amplifier, which may be overloaded now, but it can't be bypassed. Cascading two amplifiers never ever works right.

The dropouts on WRGB are unlikely to be fixed using the Monoprice antenna. It is too small to have useful gain on low band VHF. Antenna gain is far more important than amplifier gain.

flampher

11-24-10, 07:58 PM

Antenna gain is far more important than amplifier gain.

So true

SemiChemE

11-25-10, 03:23 AM

The 7777 preamp is never helpful in a LOS location, it overloads too easily. In any event, the Monoprice antenna has a built in amplifier, which may be overloaded now, but it can't be bypassed. Cascading two amplifiers never ever works right.

The dropouts on WRGB are unlikely to be fixed using the Monoprice antenna. It is too small to have useful gain on low band VHF. Antenna gain is far more important than amplifier gain.

I didn't realize the Monoprice had an internal amplifier. I agree that cascading the output from a low-quality amplifier is a bad idea. However, with the signal booming in at >60 dB, even a simple set of indoor rabbit ears would probably do the job. At those signal levels, reception issues tend to be more about rejecting multipath than antenna gain.

As for the CM7777, I agree, which is why I recommended a distribution amp. My statement about the CM7777 being more difficult to configure glossed over the fact that such a configuration in this strong-signal location would probably require attenuators to prevent overload. The only advantage of the CM7777 is the fact that it has a fairly good Noise Factor and thus can overcome some of the noise from the sometimes low-quality amplifiers build into modern TV's and tuners. However, if the S/N ratio from the antenna is sufficient, the Noise factor becomes a non-issue.

SemiChemE

11-25-10, 03:56 AM

Antenna gain is far more important than amplifier gain.
So true

That's true if the problems are due to poor incoming S/N. However, if the incoming S/N is already pretty good, but you are splitting the signal a lot then it becomes more about boosting the signal to overcome the losses, making amplifier gain more important. For the case at hand, a 6-way splitter is kind of on the borderline. It introduces about 11.5dB of insertion loss. You might be able to find an antenna with an additional 11.5 dB of gain, but it's probably a little easier and cheaper to find a distribution amp that can do so. With even larger splitters the pendulum swings even more toward the importance of amplifier gain.

kb2fzq

11-27-10, 03:52 AM

Personally, I would go with the channel master 3418 in your case (loose the splitters), as it appears you are receiving all channels except RF 6 quite well....and RF 6 is simply the need for the correct antenna....put up a CS600 wit a UVSJ combiner, thru the channel master 3418, and you should be fine, IMHO...

SimpleTheater

11-28-10, 12:25 PM

Anyone noticing a drop in strength from 6-1 for the football game? I've dropped from 70% to 50%.

benway

12-06-10, 07:27 PM

Davird_Jr

12-06-10, 07:44 PM

Your TV Fool: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d81a39a517e2666

Looks like you have line of sight to Albany tower.

mikepier

12-07-10, 07:14 AM

Your TV Fool: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d81a39a517e2666

Looks like you have line of sight to Albany tower.

Greetings All

I've just relocated from LA, CA 90046 to Rhinebeck NY 12572.

I had pretty decent OTA reception/lots of channels in LA

However, I've done a search here and cant find much on what to expect for OTA DTV in the Rhinebeck area.

Any advice much appreciated

Thanks!
You are almost 50 miles away. You will need a good VHF/UHF outdoor antenna. And possibly an amp.
I have an old Radio Shack VU-190XR on my vacation home in Middleburgh, and I while I can pick up the Albany stations 20 miles away with no problem, I can also turn my antenna towards Utica and pick up WKTV 52 miles away at 50% signal strength with no amp. So you should get the Albany stations. I would try going to Radio Shack and get a good decent size antenna. If it does not work, you could always return it.

NervousCat

12-07-10, 07:23 PM

Getting close to "cutting the cord"!!!

Speaking of cord cutting, I found an interesting article about that topic.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/06/business/media/06rabbitears.html

And some further analysis on cutting the cord.

http://displaydaily.com/2010/12/06/cutting-the-cord-is-it-a-real-trend-or-imaginary/

NervousCat

12-07-10, 09:28 PM

Greetings All

I've just relocated from LA, CA 90046 to Rhinebeck NY 12572.

I had pretty decent OTA reception/lots of channels in LA

However, I've done a search here and cant find much on what to expect for OTA DTV in the Rhinebeck area.

Any advice much appreciated

Thanks!

These past postings may help ... someone in your area recently asked for advice as well.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=19440557#post19440557

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=19490318#post19490318

Davird_Jr

12-12-10, 08:33 AM

Anyone know if this will be carried by Fox in Albany? I read that it would be carried by Fox in MN and NY. Is it just those 2 affiliates or each team's network of affiliates? DISH Network here so no ST.

Tower Guy

12-12-10, 07:12 PM

Anyone know if this will be carried by Fox in Albany?

My favorite NFL web site says yes.

http://the506.com/sports/?cat=14

Davird_Jr

12-13-10, 07:49 AM

My favorite NFL web site says yes.

http://the506.com/sports/?cat=14

Thanks Tower Guy. Great site BTW.

benway

12-13-10, 09:43 AM

thanks all for the replies. I've almost unearthed the tv/STB from the packing boxes, so will report back.

thanks

kb2fzq

12-16-10, 05:30 AM

Curious if anyone has info on this...
Yesterday, my GF started watching "Days of our lives" on the DTV satellite, WNYT 13, and the program had the "jitters", delayed frames, very annoying...
I'm home on vacation so I switched over to OTA for her...this show has always been in a SD format via OTA, but yesterday, it was in HD on OTA.
I can often fix the jitters on sat by switching channels or on/off the recever, nothing helped....I wonder if the change for DOOL to HD was causing the issue on sat and also, any info if WNYT has gone fully HD broadcasting locally?

ebo

12-16-10, 01:01 PM

kb2fzq:
According to several web sources, NBC started feeding DOOL in HD on November 8. WNYT should have been airing it that way since then. All the reasons I can think of that they might not are pretty unlikely. I suppose it's possible that the word never filtered down to Master Control so they just kept taking the SD feed. I don't know how DTV did or does carry the locals: HD, SD or both, but OTA should have been HD when available.

I don't think any station is "fully HD." All can pass through network in HD. Some (all?) can record and play syndicated shows and maybe delay network in HD. AFAIK only WRGB/WCWN can do local origination such as news in HD, and even then it's only the studio shots and maybe clips from HD shows like sports.

kb2fzq

12-20-10, 03:11 AM

OK..yeah, I would have noticed it before last Monday, if I'm home, I'll switch over to OTA during her DOOL, and Monday was the first day....but she's loving the show in HD...thanks for the info...

benway

12-30-10, 04:09 PM

Hello all

reporting back on my reception from 12572.

well, my trusty silver sensor/philips, indoor uhf is pulling in abc [26] and pbs wnet [34], but its very directional-- and about 60%.

I can get CW [43] sometimes, but thats very off/on again.

I can only really use an indoor antenna here-- [and the ceiling has been opened up in the livng room, so theres no attic to put one in :(]

what indoor antenna recommendations would anyone have please?

[it seems that only CBS is on lo-vhf [6]

http://www.tvfool.com/modeling/tmp/81a3/9a5/17e2666/getdigital.php

thanks for any suggestions/help

ebo

12-30-10, 11:31 PM

Channel 6 is always going to be a problem for an indoor antenna because the antenna needs to be quite large. You could try a twin-lead folded dipole cut for channel 6 from plans here (http://www.wfu.edu/%7Ematthews/misc/dipole.html). If it doesn't work, at least it won't have cost you much. It might pull in the high VHF channels too.

A 4- or 8-bay bowtie might improve your UHF reception. Many people mount them indoors, although usually in an attic.

Any antenna should be mounted as far away as possible from people, metal obstructions, etc. No matter what you do, the antenna still has to look through a wall or window. At 50 miles, even LOS, you should put the antenna(s) outside if you possibly can.

If you can get 43 you can get an SD version of WRGB on 43-3. Or wait for them to install a repeater near you on ch. 24.

benway

12-31-10, 09:09 AM

thanks for the reply/info

If I can get the rest, Im not really that bothered about CBS. :D

given that the silver sensor pulls in 2 stations, will something like this work?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001DFTGQU/ref=ord_cart_shr?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER

or this

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002TIELEM/ref=ord_cart_shr?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER

thanks

Channel 6 is always going to be a problem for an indoor antenna because the antenna needs to be quite large. You could try a twin-lead folded dipole cut for channel 6 from plans here (http://www.wfu.edu/%7Ematthews/misc/dipole.html). If it doesn't work, at least it won't have cost you much. It might pull in the high VHF channels too.

A 4- or 8-bay bowtie might improve your UHF reception. Many people mount them indoors, although usually in an attic.

Any antenna should be mounted as far away as possible from people, metal obstructions, etc. No matter what you do, the antenna still has to look through a wall or window. At 50 miles, even LOS, you should put the antenna(s) outside if you possibly can.

If you can get 43 you can get an SD version of WRGB on 43-3. Or wait for them to install a repeater near you on ch. 24.

SemiChemE

01-01-11, 06:42 PM

I'm about 15 miles south of you in Poughkeepsie, so my reception situation is even more challenging. I think you're going to have a lot of trouble picking up the VHF stations with an indoor antenna. In particular, if I were you, I'd forget about trying to get WRGB-6, since you should soon be able to receive CBS in on WRGB-24 out of Kingston. Having said that, a lot of people have had success using the Antenna's Direct Clearstream-2 as an indoor UHV antenna. It does have some gain for VHF-hi (7-13), but I wouldn't count on it being much better than rabbit ears for those channels.

I have the Clearstream-4, the big brother of the Clearstream-2, mounted in my attic and I am able to get all of the Albany UHF stations quite well. WCWN-43 can be problematic, but they are planning some antenna modifications in the near future that should rectify this situation

As for VHF-hi, if you can manage an outdoor antenna, I can recommend the Winegard YA-1713 which works pretty well in my attic. Good Luck!

benway

01-02-11, 07:52 AM

thanks for the reply/info

I'm about 15 miles south of you in Poughkeepsie, so my reception situation is even more challenging. I think you're going to have a lot of trouble picking up the VHF stations with an indoor antenna. In particular, if I were you, I'd forget about trying to get WRGB-6, since you should soon be able to receive CBS in on WRGB-24 out of Kingston. Having said that, a lot of people have had success using the Antenna's Direct Clearstream-2 as an indoor UHV antenna. It does have some gain for VHF-hi (7-13), but I wouldn't count on it being much better than rabbit ears for those channels.

I have the Clearstream-4, the big brother of the Clearstream-2, mounted in my attic and I am able to get all of the Albany UHF stations quite well. WCWN-43 can be problematic, but they are planning some antenna modifications in the near future that should rectify this situation

As for VHF-hi, if you can manage an outdoor antenna, I can recommend the Winegard YA-1713 which works pretty well in my attic. Good Luck!

trtinkerer

01-08-11, 09:13 PM

Benray,

I live in Rhinebeck. I have a small ratshack uhf yagi in my attic with an antenna amp. It gets ABC, NBC, FOX, and PBS from Albany just fine. CBS is weak, but works most of the time. I live at the top of a hill, so reception may be better here than where you live. I also have a small circular loop on and old TV with an ATSC receiver box. That gets the UHF signals OK inside the house, but not CBS or FOX (6 and 7).

I am in the process of putting in a Clearstream C5 for the VHF channels.(Also in the attic).

benway

01-09-11, 08:15 PM

thanks for the info :)

Benray,

I live in Rhinebeck. I have a small ratshack uhf yagi in my attic with an antenna amp. It gets ABC, NBC, FOX, and PBS from Albany just fine. CBS is weak, but works most of the time. I live at the top of a hill, so reception may be better here than where you live. I also have a small circular loop on and old TV with an ATSC receiver box. That gets the UHF signals OK inside the house, but not CBS or FOX (6 and 7).

I am in the process of putting in a Clearstream C5 for the VHF channels.(Also in the attic).

kb2fzq

01-14-11, 03:25 AM

Hello all

reporting back on my reception from 12572.

well, my trusty silver sensor/philips, indoor uhf is pulling in abc [26] and pbs wnet [34], but its very directional-- and about 60%.

I can get CW [43] sometimes, but thats very off/on again.

I can only really use an indoor antenna here-- [and the ceiling has been opened up in the livng room, so theres no attic to put one in :(]

what indoor antenna recommendations would anyone have please?

[it seems that only CBS is on lo-vhf [6]

thanks for any suggestions/help

If you can manage to get a stable signal on WCWN 43, WRGB 6 is re-broadcast on rf chan 45-3.....in standard def....

Davird_Jr

01-14-11, 07:33 AM

For some reason I am getting CW15 at about 30 % SS this morning. Staying on rock solid too. Only at 2 TV's though and my DISH Net boxes won't scan it either. Usually not even a whiff on that channel for me.

benway

01-14-11, 10:04 AM

thanks for the info

If you can manage to get a stable signal on WCWN 43, WRGB 6 is re-broadcast on rf chan 45-3.....in standard def....

NervousCat

01-16-11, 04:14 PM

given that the silver sensor pulls in 2 stations, will something like this work?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001DFTGQU/ref=ord_cart_shr?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER

I'm actually using that Winegard HD-1080 outside. It's not on the roof (no more antennas on the roof since storm damage demolished the rooftop antennas last summer) - but instead mounted on a five foot mast driven into the ground.

The same 2 stations you get with the silver sensor (WTEN, WMHT) are quite solid here in Poughkeepsie with the HD-1080. WCWN was coming in almost reliable during the summer, but then spotty in autumn. Since November, it doesn't come in at all. WNYT sometimes came in solid during the summer as well, but I attribute that to tropo ducting. Now I'm just below the threshold for WNYT on the signal meter since I frequently see pixelation when it does come in. You might have better luck than me since Rhinebeck is closer to Albany, but I've found UHF to be what I expected and VHF-Hi to be disappointing with the HD-1080 antenna.

How did things work out picking an antenna for use indoors in Rhinebeck? I'm curious since I am further down the river from you in Poughkeepsie. When I had a Terk HDTVa indoor antenna, WCWN was the most problematic of UHF signals from Albany. I'm also curious what you ended up doing for VHF reception indoors. I envy those TV markets that are UHF only and indoor antenna friendly.

benway

01-16-11, 04:15 PM

edit-- posted while you were posting! thanks for the info

I havent got an antenna yet, just been using the silver sensor-- so no vhf. I also got a Roku, so its not been so urgent. :D

reception with the SS is very atmospheric/weather dependent. its also very directional.

what albany stations were you able to get with the Terk-- how stable were they?

I will prob try the winegard HD30 indoor antenna soon

thanks

How did things work out picking an antenna for use indoors in Rhinebeck? I'm curious since I am further down the river from you in Poughkeepsie. When I had a Terk HDTVa indoor antenna, WCWN was the most problematic of UHF signals from Albany. I'm also curious what you ended up doing for VHF reception indoors. I envy those TV markets that are UHF only and indoor antenna friendly.

NervousCat

01-16-11, 04:30 PM

The Terk HDTVa is a pretty good amplified indoor antenna, and I'm 67 miles away from the Helderberg antenna farm. It's quite amazing that I could pick up anything here in Poughkeepsie using an indoor antenna.

WMHT came in the strongest on that antenna (reliable, solid signal with no dropouts), followed by WTEN. WTEN was stronger in the summer for some strange reason on that antenna and would sometimes drop out in the winter. WCWN was downright unpredictable with that antenna. Some days WCWN was solid but most of the days I'd get no signal at all. No VHF stations came in using that antenna with the rabbit ears extended. I don't regret buying that Terk antenna - got it for $33 as a open box item at Best Buy (obviously someone else who had the antenna was disappointed in it, but I assume the person who returned it probably chose the wrong antenna for their area).

benway

01-16-11, 05:27 PM

thanks for the info

Ive also noticed that reception is much better at night :confused:.

I'll prob try that winegard and post back here with the results.

The Terk HDTVa is a pretty good amplified indoor antenna, and I'm 67 miles away from the Helderberg antenna farm. It's quite amazing that I could pick up anything here in Poughkeepsie using an indoor antenna.

WMHT came in the strongest on that antenna (reliable, solid signal with no dropouts), followed by WTEN. WTEN was stronger in the summer for some strange reason on that antenna and would sometimes drop out in the winter. WCWN was downright unpredictable with that antenna. Some days WCWN was solid but most of the days I'd get no signal at all. No VHF stations came in using that antenna with the rabbit ears extended. I don't regret buying that Terk antenna - got it for $33 as a open box item at Best Buy (obviously someone else who had the antenna was disappointed in it, but I assume the person who returned it probably chose the wrong antenna for their area).

NervousCat

01-16-11, 06:39 PM

Ive also noticed that reception is much better at night :confused:.

I noticed that too (mostly in the warmer months). I think when I mentioned it in one of my postings a few months ago, someone chimed in that it may have to do with tropospheric ducting (http://www.northcountrypublicradio.org/ducting.html).

I'll prob try that winegard and post back here with the results.

Here's a picture of the Winegard HD-1080 that I have outside. The antenna is bigger than it looks, so make sure you can fit it indoors.

benway

01-16-11, 06:56 PM

thanks for the info

sorry, I meant the winegard HD30 I mentioned earlier, which is a lot smaller than the 1080

I noticed that too (mostly in the warmer months). I think when I mentioned it in one of my postings a few months ago, someone chimed in that it may have to do with tropospheric ducting (http://www.northcountrypublicradio.org/ducting.html).

Here's a picture of the Winegard HD-1080 that I have outside. The antenna is bigger than it looks, so make sure you can fit it indoors.

ebo

01-19-11, 09:55 AM

Are the WRGB forums dead? I have a link to the DTV forum but for the past couple of weeks or so it takes me to a minimal page titled "Publish Your Stuff" with several links including Forums, but when I select that it just returns me to the same page. I see no mention of forums on their main page.

Chief Fred

01-19-11, 02:51 PM

Are the WRGB forums dead?

Unfortunately, yes. The deal that Freedom had with Pluck expired. HQ opted not to renew.

ebo

01-20-11, 11:10 AM

Are the WRGB forums dead?

Unfortunately, yes. The deal that Freedom had with Pluck expired. HQ opted not to renew.
That's a shame. You helped a lot of people to receive WRGB (and sometimes other stations) better through that forum and kept us informed of changes such as power increases, status of repeater applications, etc. It's the sort of information every station should make available on its web site but AFAIK only WRGB did. I hope you'll continue to provide such help here or elsewhere (and if elsewhere, please let us know where).

SemiChemE

01-21-11, 03:07 AM

Unfortunately, yes. The deal that Freedom had with Pluck expired. HQ opted not to renew.

I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you'll still find away to provide updates on the various Antenna and Translator projects you have going. I'm waiting anxiously for the WCWN-43 antenna upgrade. I'm also interested to see if I can pick up the Kingston translator for WRGB down here to Poughkeepsie.

Davird_Jr

01-24-11, 01:25 PM

+ 1

Chief Fred

01-26-11, 09:26 AM

I hope you'll still find away to provide updates on the various Antenna and Translator projects you have going.

In December we asked the FCC to change the antenna in Kingston from Horizontal polarization to Circular polarization. Today the FCC granted that request.

The equipment was ordered in December. The installation date depends on manufacturing cycles and the weather.

A 10 KW backup transmitter for WCWN has arrived from a sister station in Tennessee. It will be used into the main omnidirectional antenna while the channel 43 mask filter is moved from the existing 20 KW WCWN DTV transmitter to the old 30 KW WRGB channel 39 transmitter. That work is scheduled for April.

benway

01-26-11, 03:17 PM

reporting back; well I got the winegard HD30 and its worse than the silver sensor :eek:

about 20% less signal on UHF, only gets ABC and PBS [the same], and no VHF reception at all. :confused:

bizarrely, the silver sensor has occasionally been picking up [but not really holding] WRNN 48, even though its 180 in the other direction.

I'll prob stick with the ss, as the Roku is filling the gap for the moment.

thanks all, for the help

this was for 12572.

http://www.tvfool.com/modeling/tmp/81a3/9a5/17e2666/getdigital.php

kb2fzq

01-28-11, 05:57 AM

bizarrely, the silver sensor has occasionally been picking up [but not really holding] WRNN 48, even though its 180 in the other direction.

I would think you should pick up WRNN on a paper clip from your location....as I recall, I think it's putting out, like, 1000 kw of power!!!....

Judy Y

01-28-11, 12:07 PM

Using my Tivo's channel line up, I get WNYT showing on frequency 12 and 18.
Using the frequency 12, I get drop outs every couple minutes but I get complete guide data. Using frequency 18, I get "to be announced" for guide data, (no matter how many times I link to the tivo service to update) but NO drop outs.

Any way I can get guide data for the more reliable frequency 18? Why is this channel broadcast on two different frequencies? (I have an outdoor antenna RCA ANT 751, I believe, and get 65% to 85% signal strength on all the Albany stations, 6, 10, 23, 45, 51. Antenna is on tripod on ground will not be mounted on roof until spring.)

Any thoughts/help would be appreciated! (I did a search but did not see similar or relevant info on this topic.)

Judy

ebo

01-28-11, 07:35 PM

Judy Y:
WNYT's main transmission is on channel 12 from the Community Tower in the Helderbergs, where most of the major locals are. Channel 18 is a repeater at their old location on Bald Mountain, a.k.a. Mount Rafinesque.

I too get dropouts from ch. 12, about every 16 seconds reliably, but only on one kind of tuner (SiliconDust HDHomeRun). I don't get dropouts with other tuners using the same antenna system, nor does the HDHomeRun have a problem with ch. 18 when I point an antenna in that direction. I haven't figured out what causes it.

I've never used a TiVo so I can't help you there. Most of the systems I have used allow me to tell them that I get station x on channel y. Maybe the TiVo has a way to do that.

I'm surprised that you can get ch. 6 with the RCA ANT751; it looks like it's intended for UHF and maybe some high VHF, but if it works, it works.

Here are a few links I've found useful for finding out about local broadcast stations:

AntennaWeb (http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Address.aspx) lets you zero in on your location on a street map and shows directions to the stations relative to your streets, which simplifies antenna aiming. But it's conservative in what it thinks you can get and may not list all the stations in the area.

TV Fool (http://www.tvfool.com/) doesn't give you the handy street map, but Zip+4 should be accurate enough. It takes terrain into account (but not buildings and trees) and I trust its results more than AntennaWeb's. It also offers a download of a Google Earth overlay showing where all of the US TV transmitters are.

RabbitEars (http://www.rabbitears.info/) has a ton of technical information about US and Canadian broadcast stations. Although I gave the main page here, I find the site map (http://www.rabbitears.info/sitemap.php) easier to navigate.

The SiliconDust Lineup Server (http://www.silicondust.com/support/channels/) will show you what others in your postcode are able to receive with the company's HDHomeRun tuner, from both antenna and cable (and FIOS where available).

Antenna basics (http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/basics.html) and Comparing some commercially available antennas (http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html) from HDTVPrimer give good tips on what kinds of antennas have the best chance of working under various conditions.

Judy Y

01-29-11, 07:24 AM

Thanks for the info, very helpful. I was concerned about the vhf on the 751 when I got it but really couldn't seem to find anything else close for what I needed. But I have had no issues with it.

I am going to study the tivo manual and see if there is any way to swap guide data. Meanwhile, there is not ALOT of NBC programming that I record so will look at the guide data for 12 and then set up manual recordings on channel 18.

Thanks!

W1KNE

03-02-11, 01:51 AM

Judy Y:

I too get dropouts from ch. 12, about every 16 seconds reliably, but only on one kind of tuner (SiliconDust HDHomeRun). I don't get dropouts with other tuners using the same antenna system, nor does the HDHomeRun have a problem with ch. 18 when I point an antenna in that direction. I haven't figured out what causes it.

The receiver is seeing not handling a intermittent interference issue, as well as the others. The others seem to be rejecting it better.

Judy Y

03-02-11, 02:09 PM

Strangely enough, the last couple of programs I recorded from 12 were PERFECT from start to finish..... go figure....

Judy

Chief Fred

03-08-11, 12:24 PM

I'm waiting anxiously for the WCWN-43 antenna upgrade.

The WCWN antenna project now has a firm schedule.

Step 1;

The replacement of the multichannel combiner begins Monday, March 28th. A special combiner bypass for WTEN will be installed. WTEN will be off the air overnight as the process begins.

Step 2;

The special bypass for WTEN will be removed. WCWN begins omnidirectional operation at reduced power using an 11 KW solid state transmitter. (220 KW ERP) That is scheduled for Thursday, March 31.

Step 3;

The high power mask filter will be moved from the 20 KW Thales transmitter to the 30 KW Harris transmitter. The 30 KW transmitter will be on air as soon as it is ready. That should happen the first week of April.

The Thales transmitter uses an IOT tube, the Harris uses an MSDC. The tube technologies are covered here:
h.t.t.p://broadcastengineering.com/mag/broadcasting_dualmode_msdc_iots/

Step 4;

Equipment for Kingston is scheduled to be shipped the last week in March. The Kingston schedule is the second/third week of April. Pittsfield is after that.

Ken NY

03-09-11, 06:55 PM

>>> Monday, March 28th. A special combiner bypass for WTEN will be installed. WTEN will be off the air overnight as the process begins. The special bypass for WTEN will be removed. WCWN begins omnidirectional operation at reduced power using an 11 KW solid state transmitter<<<

there goes more channels down the drain - you guys keep messing up a good thing...
i hope this won't be another "downgrade" like when you guys changed from 39 to 6!
at least after a few months you were nice enough to put 6 on 45-3 but i still can't see 6-2 (this tv) anymore, despite me moving my cut to channel 6 yagi to 40 feet as you said was the optimum height.
now you are going to mess around with 10 and 45!!!!!
i hope you know what you are doing!!!! i dont want to lose those channels too!!!!!
you also took that weather radar from 6-3, i miss that...
i think you should use that channel 39 transmitter for channel 6-1,2,& 3 again and leave 45 & 10 alone (since they are working nice right now)!!!!

SimpleTheater

03-10-11, 11:03 AM

The WCWN antenna project now has a firm schedule.
Fred, thanks for keeping us updated. Now if I could ask you to put this in layman's terms. Will these changes make WTEN easier to receive or harder?

I've noticed a signifigant drop in my WTEN signal starting mid February. Even WMHT dropped from my strongest station to poor starting in December. Not sure if one has anything to do with the other.

Thanks again.

Chief Fred

03-11-11, 08:42 AM

Will these changes make WTEN easier to receive or harder?

WTEN reception will not be changed in any way. The bypass allows WTEN to run at full power into the main antenna while the combiner is replaced. The old combiner was capable of channels 26/34/39, the new one does 26/34/43.

Your reduction in signal strength of WTEN and WMHT simultaneously indicates extra loss in your antenna system. Possible causes could be, antenna blown off aim by the wind, missing elements on the antenna, water in the coax, bad splitter, and/or poor F connector performance.

Davird_Jr

03-11-11, 06:46 PM

Thanks for the update Chief Fred. Here's hoping the upgrade helps us in the Berkshires get WCWN. Apologies to Ken Ny if he loses from the upgrade, but we can't get much more than a whiff of 45 once in a while right now.

AlbanyHDTV

03-14-11, 08:07 AM

The NCAA Basketball tourney will include games on the TruTV channel. Albany TWC does not carry this channel in HD, even though Time Warner owns Turner, who owns TruTV.

Local NCAA fans should note that of the 8 locations for the first weekend's games, 4 will be televised by TruTV. This includes Cleveland, which is where the Syracuse Orange are playing.

Davird_Jr

03-14-11, 09:26 AM

DISH Network carries TruTV HD on channel 204. Top 200 Plus HD package required. DirecTv does not carry TruTv in HD, but apparently will carry the games in HD on 246-1.

Davird_Jr

03-25-11, 10:32 AM

The WCWN antenna project now has a firm schedule.

Step 1;

The replacement of the multichannel combiner begins Monday, March 28th. A special combiner bypass for WTEN will be installed. WTEN will be off the air overnight as the process begins.

Step 2;

The special bypass for WTEN will be removed. WCWN begins omnidirectional operation at reduced power using an 11 KW solid state transmitter. (220 KW ERP) That is scheduled for Thursday, March 31.

Step 3;

The high power mask filter will be moved from the 20 KW Thales transmitter to the 30 KW Harris transmitter. The 30 KW transmitter will be on air as soon as it is ready. That should happen the first week of April.

The Thales transmitter uses an IOT tube, the Harris uses an MSDC. The tube technologies are covered here:
h.t.t.p://broadcastengineering.com/mag/broadcasting_dualmode_msdc_iots/

Step 4;

Equipment for Kingston is scheduled to be shipped the last week in March. The Kingston schedule is the second/third week of April. Pittsfield is after that.

Looks like dry weather for next week. Let's hope all systems are still go for this.

Chief Fred

03-28-11, 08:57 AM

Looks like dry weather for next week. Let's hope all systems are still go for this.

The road is dry and frozen. All the work is indoors.

Step 1 is complete. One small issue, a WR-1500 waveguide to 6 1/8" coax transition tuned to channel 39 didn't work right on channel 26. We swapped in a transition tuned to channel 26 and all is well. See page 142. http://www.spxcomtech.com/SPX/en/assets/pdf/misc.pdf

Davird_Jr

03-29-11, 09:38 AM

Thanks for the update.

MasterFX1

03-30-11, 02:42 PM

Added the Verizon FiOS lineup to the first post in this thread. Thanks to Skaggs (AlbanyHDTV) for the data.

The Hound

03-31-11, 12:18 AM

Chief Fred

03-31-11, 03:19 AM

Step 2;

The special bypass for WTEN will be removed. WCWN begins omnidirectional operation at reduced power using an 11 KW solid state transmitter. (220 KW ERP) That is scheduled for Thursday, March 31.

Step 2 is half complete. The new combiner is installed and tested. The WTEN bypass has been removed. WTEN and WMHT are back on the main antenna.

The WCWN backup transmitter is working fine at 10.6 KW. It is scheduled to go on the air into the OMNI antenna later today. When that occurs, the ERP for WCWN will be 215 KW. Once the full power transmitter has been converted the ERP will be 600 KW, roughly the same as WTEN.

MasterFX1

03-31-11, 03:37 PM

I saw this on the news.
They said Scotia would be one of the roll out villages.
Anyone know if that is just the village proper or if the lines will extend out the main roads?
I live 3 miles off the Ave.
When will the whole FiOS package be available?
Thanks.

I'm in a similar situation and also interested. You could probably research how long it took from town agreement to 1st local subscribers over on albanyhdtv dot com. There's been some fairly in-depth threads on it there. My guess is not for a while, and probably not up near me by Glendaal Elementary for a long while. But I could be totally wrong on that.

flampher

03-31-11, 05:06 PM

Step 2 is half complete. The new combiner is installed and tested. The WTEN bypass has been removed. WTEN and WMHT are back on the main antenna.

The WCWN backup transmitter is working fine at 10.6 KW. It is scheduled to go on the air into the OMNI antenna later today. When that occurs, the ERP for WCWN will be 215 KW. Once the full power transmitter has been converted the ERP will be 600 KW, roughly the same as WTEN.

Thanks for the updates Fred. Have you moved to the backup transmitter yet? Real interested in how this works out way up here in Sudbury, Vt

wkomorow

03-31-11, 05:27 PM

Chief Fred

04-01-11, 07:18 AM

Thanks for the updates Fred. Have you moved to the backup transmitter yet?

WCWN began omnidirectional operation using reduced power at 3:30 PM yesterday, March 31.

The mask filter was removed form the old transmitter by 5:30. Today it gets installed on the high efficiency transmitter. That transmitter is tripping off, so there's a bit extra work to be done.

Davird_Jr

04-01-11, 07:55 AM

With my antenna pointed toward albany, wten, whmt are showing 10 points less signal strenth. No sign of wcwn when pointed toward albany. Interestingly, all three are showing when I point my antenna toward new haven, which is where I used to pick up wcwn on a ricochet.

Btw, thanks to wgrb for making hd versions of syndicated shows available. Wrgb,wcwn, and wnyt are the only ones who do.

I checked WCWN this morning at 0500 and it was on solid with 2 out of 10 bars signal strength. This during a fairly moderate snowfall, which normally wreaks havoc with my UHF reception. Yesterday Icouldn't even get a whiff of the signal. I did not have time to check channel 10, but I think this is a good sign of what is coming when they're done.

BTW thanks Chief Fred for the blow by blow updates. They are appreciated.

wkomorow

04-01-11, 08:20 AM

Still no 45 (43) here. 10 & 17 are back to near normal. 40 from springfield was strong this morning, which is normal when a storm is coming in from the south.

Davird_Jr

04-02-11, 02:35 PM

45 back to mostly broken here now.

flampher

04-02-11, 07:03 PM

I am surprised that the signal on 45 (43) seems unchanged up here. I just got my 8 bay uhf antenna back up today, (it went down in that last big snow storm we got about 3 weeks ago). I had replaced it, temporarily, with a lower gain BT broadband UHF, which is a real tough antenna but very little gain. I know how fickle these digital signals are on the deep fringe, so I am keeping my fingers crossed, but I am encouraged so far. I look forward to the day when the new transmitter is in service.

Chief Fred

04-03-11, 10:30 AM

BTW thanks Chief Fred for the blow by blow updates. They are appreciated.

You're welcome.

The full power transmitter was turned on at about 11 AM Sunday morning, April 3rd.

flampher

04-03-11, 08:53 PM

Looks real good up here! locked, and right in line with WMHT in signal level. I could not be happier! Thanks Fred

SemiChemE

04-04-11, 04:58 PM

Chief Fred,

Thanks for the update. I haven't checked CW45 since Saturday, but on Saturday it was actually producing a watchable signal (although a weak one ~25%) here in Poughkeepsie. I'll check again when I get in later tonight. I'm looking forward to a big improvement.

SemiChemE

04-04-11, 10:18 PM

I just checked CW45 and the signal is great. It's coming in at ~65%, which puts it among my strongest channels. It is now comparable to WTEN and WMHT, both of which are consistently very watchable.

WRGB-6 is still a little marginal at around 35%. At this level the signal is watchable (almost no drop outs), but tends to degrade in bad weather or when there is local interference (someone flipping a light switch or certain cars driving by).

Now if only, someone would fix WNYT and WXXA. I can get the former, although the signal breaks up a lot. I can't even get a wiff of the latter signal. I suspect WABC may be interfering, since it does come in occasionally (normally the signal is ~10% and fails to lock at all).

Davird_Jr

04-05-11, 08:07 AM

W1KNE

04-07-11, 04:28 AM

CoolTV just signed a agreement with Newport TV for carriage in 10 of their markets. Any speculation of WXXA throws CoolTV on 23.3?

The Hound

04-07-11, 06:07 AM

We used to have a video channel on 45.3 WCWN, but it went under.
Why do you speculate that WXXA would carry this?

Scott_J

04-07-11, 10:47 AM

We used to have a video channel on 45.3 WCWN, but it went under.
Why do you speculate that WXXA would carry this?
Because as the last poster said CoolTV signed an agreement to be added to 10 of Newport's stations. Newport owns WXXA. So it's possible (but unknown at this point) WXXA is one of the 10.

The Hound

04-10-11, 10:15 PM

Newport owns WXXA
Ahhh

Trip in VA

04-10-11, 10:19 PM

CoolTV just signed a agreement with Newport TV for carriage in 10 of their markets. Any speculation of WXXA throws CoolTV on 23.3?

I'm willing to speculate about The Cool TV appearing on 23-2.

- Trip

The Hound

04-10-11, 10:23 PM

So they would drop Untamed Sports from 23.2?

Trip in VA

04-10-11, 10:28 PM

Yep.

- Trip

Davird_Jr

04-11-11, 07:20 AM

I am now getting WCWN at about 40 - 50 % SS, but it is not locked on. Goes from 4-5 bars down to zero and then back on. This is a vast improvement, but still not watchable. When it warms up a little I'll have to do some tweaking with my antenna pointing.

My signal seems to have improved a bit with it showing fairly steadily now. Overall much improved over what we had before the upgrade. TV tuners seem to be having not much trouble locking on it. Dish Sat OTA tuner: had to add it manually to VIP722, VIP612 couldn't see it though. Might have to look into the line going to that tuner and make some adjustments. Signal is split about 8 ways after it comes in the house. Using CM 7777 preamp and a 4 port dist amp. Split to 5 HDTV's, 2 sat OTA tuners and 3 radios for FM.

benway

04-11-11, 08:16 PM

Greetings

I posted a while back about reception in Rhinebeck 12572.

I have since moved house.

Here is my new TV Fool

http://www.tvfool.com/modeling/tmp/8d17/8fb/f443b75/Radar-Digital.png

I can now also put an antenna anywhere I want :eek: :D

I would appreciate advice on what antenna to get

Also, how realistic would it be to pull in NYC stations?

Thanks!

The Hound

04-11-11, 09:38 PM

Your antenna height is set at 6ft.
Where it asks you for your address there is a spot for antenna height.
You know you can at least get the height of your chimney.
This may get you out of that 1 edge situation.
Keep going higher just to see how high the tower need be.
Post the results back here.
Maybe with a huge tower you could try for the city.

mikepier

04-12-11, 05:40 AM

Greetings

I can now also put an antenna anywhere I want :eek: :D

I would appreciate advice on what antenna to get

Also, how realistic would it be to pull in NYC stations?

Thanks!

80 miles away from NYC is a longshot.
Even still, you are 52 miles away from Albany. You should concentrate to see if you get those stations first.
As I mentioned in a previous post, get a big antenna from Radio Shack and try it out. Put it outdoors and run a short piece of coax to the TV as a test.
If the antenna can't pick up much, at least you can return it.
I have an old Radio Shack VU-190XR at my place in Middleburgh, and last time I was there, these were my readings on my strength meter on the tv.

At 20 miles away:

WRGB 6 @ 92%
WTEN 10 @ 67%
WNYT 13 @ 82%
WMHT 17 @ 87%
WXXA 23 @ 72%
WCWN 45 @ 61%

WKTV 2 @ 50% With antenna rotated NE

My house is pretty high up on the mountain. This is just to give you a general idea what reception is like.

Here is my tvfool report. Even though I'm close, I have 2 edge reception.
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d8d17c98fd060ae

benway

04-12-11, 07:49 AM

thanks all, for the replies

a quick question about TV Fool/antenna height?

when you use coordinates to locate your house, does it take into account elevation? ie-- I am on top of a hill-- does TVF know that? compared to my neighbors, I have a 100ft antenna :D

I just found an enormous 10ft+ [disconnected] antenna on the property :eek:

It was on a motorised base-- anyone know what it is, please? Or if its worth using? [see thumbnail]

Thanks!

80 miles away from NYC is a longshot.
Even still, you are 52 miles away from Albany. You should concentrate to see if you get those stations first.
As I mentioned in a previous post, get a big antenna from Radio Shack and try it out. Put it outdoors and run a short piece of coax to the TV as a test.
If the antenna can't pick up much, at least you can return it.
I have an old Radio Shack VU-190XR at my place in Middleburgh, and last time I was there, these were my readings on my strength meter on the tv.

At 20 miles away:

WRGB 6 @ 92%
WTEN 10 @ 67%
WNYT 13 @ 82%
WMHT 17 @ 87%
WXXA 23 @ 72%
WCWN 45 @ 61%

WKTV 2 @ 50% With antenna rotated NE

My house is pretty high up on the mountain. This is just to give you a general idea what reception is like.

Here is my tvfool report. Even though I'm close, I have 2 edge reception.
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d8d17c98fd060ae

Tower Guy

04-12-11, 08:04 AM

I just found an enormous 10ft+ [disconnected] antenna on the property
Or if its worth using?
Thanks!

No, the VHF elements are broken. That's typical of the Radio Shack VU-190.

Consider a Winegard HD 7082P, and try to get it on the roof. Next add an AP-8700 preamp.

mikepier

04-12-11, 08:27 AM

No, the VHF elements are broken. That's typical of the Radio Shack VU-190.

Consider a Winegard HD 7082P, and try to get it on the roof. Next add an AP-8700 preamp.

I was going to say, that looks exactly like my antenna, a VU-190 with a rotor.

The antenna is shot.
Don't know about the rotor, you have to bench test it. It operates on low voltage.

AndreasMergner

04-13-11, 02:51 PM

If anyone is interested in having an AVS get together in the Albany area at some point, I created a thread in the "Area Home Theater Meets" forum here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1328508

I apologize if this is not the most on topic post, but figured that I was at least half on topic! :) Thanks.

benway

04-14-11, 06:27 PM

thanks all, for the replies

I looked up the Winegard, but the range quoted wont reach Albany?

THanks very much

No, the VHF elements are broken. That's typical of the Radio Shack VU-190.

Consider a Winegard HD 7082P, and try to get it on the roof. Next add an AP-8700 preamp.

SemiChemE

04-14-11, 08:42 PM

Hi Benway, the ranges listed on Antenna Specs are meaningless, so don't put too much stock into those. The 7082P is pretty good and should pull in most of the Albany stations for you. If you're serious about trying for NYC stations, you could try out the Winegard HD 8200U, which at least on paper is slightly better.

I can pull in the NYC VHF stations (7,11,13) down here in Poughkeepsie with a YA-1713 mounted in my attic, so there is at least a chance you could get them up there with a large outdoor antenna. Note that I get 11 very reliably, 13 somewhat reliably, and 7 very intermittently, which doesn't really line up with my TV fool report, so take that with a grain of salt as well.

For UHF I've got the Antenna's direct C4, which does quite well in my attic for the Albany UHF stations and occasionally pulls in a NYC station or two (WNJU, WNYE) off of the back. For some reason I struggle to get the Albany VHF stations (except WRGB).

Tower Guy

04-15-11, 08:58 AM

I looked up the Winegard, but the range quoted wont reach Albany?

You'll gain a bit if you put it on the roof and you can eliminate line losses with a preamp. With those assumptions, the signal strengths on TVfool dictate the required gain of the antenna. The HD7082P has enough gain margin in your location.

Your potential problem will be interference on channel 7 from WABC interfering with WXXA. The F/B ratio of the HD7082P on channel 7 is 13 db. The slightly larger HD7084P is rated at 19 db F/B ratio on channel 7. The even larger HD8200U has 17 db F/B ratio on channel 7.

benway

04-15-11, 09:11 AM

thanks all, for the replies, again :)

Is the 7082 really 9' long?:eek:

I am not really bothered about the lo vhf channels-- ie CBS. Does that mean I can get a smaller antenna? I do still want a combo uhf/vhf though

THanks again for your help

You'll gain a bit if you put it on the roof and you can eliminate line losses with a preamp. With those assumptions, the signal strengths on TVfool dictate the required gain of the antenna. The HD7082P has enough gain margin in your location.

Your potential problem will be interference on channel 7 from WABC interfering with WXXA. The F/B ratio of the HD7082P on channel 7 is 13 db. The slightly larger HD7084P is rated at 19 db F/B ratio on channel 7. The even larger HD8200U has 17 db F/B ratio on channel 7.

Tower Guy

04-15-11, 10:14 AM

Does that mean I can get a smaller antenna? I do still want a combo uhf/vhf though

The Winegard 7-69 HD7496P has the same gain on UHF as the HD7082P. The boom length of the HD7496P is 110.75", or 1/4" longer than the HD7082P.

A shorter boom alternative is a CS-600 for VHF and a 4 bay UHF (multiple manufacturers). That changes the preamp to a dual VHF/UHF input preamp such as the Winegard AP-2870 or the Channel Master 7777 or 7778.
When selecting the CS-600 expect problems with reception of WXXA and a greater frequency of dropouts on the other VHF channels.

Davird_Jr

04-15-11, 11:58 AM

You'll gain a bit if you put it on the roof and you can eliminate line losses with a preamp. With those assumptions, the signal strengths on TVfool dictate the required gain of the antenna. The HD7082P has enough gain margin in your location.

Your potential problem will be interference on channel 7 from WABC interfering with WXXA. The F/B ratio of the HD7082P on channel 7 is 13 db. The slightly larger HD7084P is rated at 19 db F/B ratio on channel 7. The even larger HD8200U has 17 db F/B ratio on channel 7.

I will vouch for the VHF performance of the HD8200. My VHF performace on WRGB, WNYT and WXXA is close to 100% signal strength in any kind of weather. I am a similar distance to tower as benway. I do not have potential interference from NYC here though. I do not use the antenna for UHF, but I would assume it is excellent as well. It is 14 ft boom, but mounts on a standard boom and tripod on my roof with no problems.

segue

04-15-11, 07:38 PM

TheCoolTV has replaced untamed sports on 23.2 and the display now says 23-CT

They are playing 80s videos in what appears to be the 80s at 8. I'm assuming that after this hour the videos will be more - contemporary?

kq2n

04-15-11, 09:20 PM

Sorry to see Untamed Sports gone from 23-2. It was unique, no other local OTA stations cater to outdoor sportmen of all sorts, fishing, hunting, boating, snowmobiling etc...

benway

04-16-11, 09:46 AM

thanks all, for the replies and info/knowledge

I used to be able to get a few UHF channels with a silver sensor [inside] which is about a foot long, when I was 3 miles closer to Albany.

is there nothing about 3-6ft long vhf/uhf combo that will work?

thanks

I will vouch for the VHF performance of the HD8200. My VHF performace on WRGB, WNYT and WXXA is close to 100% signal strength in any kind of weather. I am a similar distance to tower as benway. I do not have potential interference from NYC here though. I do not use the antenna for UHF, but I would assume it is excellent as well. It is 14 ft boom, but mounts on a standard boom and tripod on my roof with no problems.

Tower Guy

04-18-11, 11:43 AM

Is there nothing about 3-6ft long vhf/uhf combo that will work?

http://www.dennysantennaservice.com/stacker_antenna_design.html

The concept is sound but there's no way to know if the implementation is correct.

The Hound

04-19-11, 12:27 AM

Benway,
If you put your exact coordinates in TV Fool it will take topography into account.
The fact you found the VU-190 on the property tells you what it took for the previous owner to get a signal.
Follow Tower guys link to the stacker set up that guy is selling.
It is a VHF on top of a UHF antenna.
Instead of the UHF antenna stuck on the end of the VHF.
This cuts down the length considerably.
You can do the same thing,
A shorter boom alternative is a CS-600 for VHF and a 4 bay UHF (multiple manufacturers). That changes the preamp to a dual VHF/UHF input preamp such as the Winegard AP-2870 or the Channel Master 7777 or 7778.
When selecting the CS-600 expect problems with reception of WXXA and a greater frequency of dropouts on the other VHF channels.
Or just buy the set up the link points to.
Two seperate antennas can be aimed two different ways also.
Good luck.

NervousCat

04-19-11, 10:29 AM

I just checked CW45 and the signal is great. It's coming in at ~65%, which puts it among my strongest channels. It is now comparable to WTEN and WMHT, both of which are consistently very watchable.

I'm in the same vicinity as you and I've also noticed an increase in signal (also around 65%). CW45 has been unwatchable all winter until about a couple of weeks ago. It's not quite as strong as WTEN or WMHT, but it's now consistently watchable with an occasional blackout when the signal temporarily drops below the cliff.

segue

04-19-11, 10:03 PM

Just noticed 51-2 pop up on my TV - any guesses or knowledge of what it is going to be? Hoping it is the AntennaTV network!

benway

04-20-11, 09:52 AM

thanks all, for the replies/info

I did use co-ordinates for that TV Fool read out.

the old antenna I found looks like it was abandoned many years ago. I suspect the tower/signals have changed since then.

the house was wired for 2 different satellite systems, one big freestanding dish and one DTV type on a chimney, it also had 2 different cable tv's cables in etc

quite a mess of cable, splitters, boxes etc inside.

I'll report back when I get an antenna.

thanks again, all.

wkomorow

04-23-11, 05:15 PM

It is antennatv and it is on. Yeah. Come on me-two. Everyone time for a rescan.

Scott_J

04-28-11, 08:31 AM

I wonder if TWC will add 51-2 to its system. Since I live in Queensbury and don't have an antenna, I can't get it OTA so TWC would be my only way to get it.

wkomorow

04-29-11, 02:41 PM

I wonder if TWC will add 51-2 to its system. Since I live in Queensbury and don't have an antenna, I can't get it OTA so TWC would be my only way to get it.

I don't think the question is if, but when will --- it may be the next time contract is up with WNYA - just guessing. I am sure eventually it will be on. Programming is really good if you like 60s TV.

NervousCat

05-05-11, 08:56 AM

Here's a few articles I found on trends discovered from a Neilson survey.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/03/business/media/03television.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

http://www.slashgear.com/less-tvs-in-the-us-is-it-the-economy-or-the-internet-04149942/

This quote from the New York Times article was worth sharing.

And some in rural areas could not receive digital signals as effectively as analog signals for technical reasons. In those cases, “if you’re an affluent household — or most middle-class households — you’re going to get a satellite dish. If you’re a struggling household, likely you’re not going to be able to afford that option,” Ms. McDonough said.

Chief Fred

05-12-11, 07:13 PM

The repeater in Kingston, NY is on the air on channel 24. It is rebroadcasting the folllowing programming:

45-1 CW HD
45-02 Universal Sports SD
45-3 CBS6 SD

Most HDTVs and converters boxes need to be rescanned to find the station.
The antenna necessary to receive these stations will depend on your location.

You can see the coverage here:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=80&q=call%3dWRGB%26type%3dD%26sitenum%3d2

An indoor antenna is likely to work in orange and yellow tinted sections of the maps.

Appropriate indoor antennas include a Channel Master 4040 or Terk HDTVi available from multiple on-line retailers, or a UHF Bow tie available from Radio Shack.

Green areas would be better off with an attic antenna. An attic style antenna can be the Eagle Aspen DB-2 or Channel Master 4220. These will also work in some blue areas.

Blue and violet areas should use a rooftop antenna.

In most cases a roof mounted four bay UHF is suggested. These could be a Winegard HD-4400, Antennacraft U-4000, Antennas Direct C-2, or Channel Master 4221HD.

The most distant or shadowed locations will need the largest antenna. Appropriate models include Channel Master 4228HD, Antennacraft U-8000, Winegard HD8800 or HD-9032, Antennas Direct C-4 or 91-XG.

Coverage extends from Catskill to New Paltz. I'd appreciate reception reports.

Trip in VA

05-12-11, 07:26 PM

Why are you translating WCWN and not WRGB?

- Trip

Chief Fred

05-13-11, 06:44 AM

Why are you translating WCWN and not WRGB?

- Trip

Translating WCWN gets both stations of our CBS-CW duoploy with no remultiplexing equipment.

Trip in VA

05-13-11, 07:03 AM

You just couldn't make my life easy could you? :p Now I have to figure out how to list WCWN's programming under the WRGB license on RabbitEars.

- Trip

wkomorow

05-15-11, 04:50 PM

When did WYPX go HD? I was watching caddyshack on it yesterday and it looked great. I knew ION was converting their stations but had not heard that Albany was one of them

Scott_J

05-16-11, 10:05 AM

When did WYPX go HD? I was watching caddyshack on it yesterday and it looked great. I knew ION was converting their stations but had not heard that Albany was one of them
I don't know when the OTA feed went HD but TWC added the channel to its lineup last summer.

I posted this at the AlbanyHDTV forum on 8/9/10:
I don't know when it was added, but I noticed this weekend while going through the guide that TWC added WYPX-HD (Ion) on 1820.
http://albanyhdtv.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=gotopost&board=Lineup&thread=1723&post=9153

NervousCat

05-16-11, 01:31 PM

The repeater in Kingston, NY is on the air on channel 24. It is rebroadcasting the folllowing programming:

45-1 CW HD
45-02 Universal Sports SD
45-3 CBS6 SD

Most HDTVs and converters boxes need to be rescanned to find the station.
The antenna necessary to receive these stations will depend on your location.

You can see the coverage here:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=80&q=call%3dWRGB%26type%3dD%26sitenum%3d2

.
.
.

Coverage extends from Catskill to New Paltz. I'd appreciate reception reports.

Rescanned over the weekend. No new channels. Did not pick up CH 24 from my location in Town of Poughkeepsie (Spackenkill area south of the City of Poughkeepsie) using a Winegard HD-1080 on a makeshift 5 foot mast planted in the ground outside the house. That's what I would have expected since my location shows up in the violet area on that TV Fool map.

Hopefully some folks slightly north of my location closer to Kingston might chime in with a reception report.

On the bright side, WCWN 45-1, 45-2 and 45-3 have a reliable signal down here (since beginning of April) ... almost as good as WTEN or WMHT.

NervousCat

05-17-11, 10:13 AM

By the way, Channel 24 is now showing up in my TV Fool results as WRGB.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d574724a2932ae7

I noticed my TV Fool's results also show co-channel interference with WNYE-24 out of NYC. That shouldn't be a problem for folks north of Poughkeepsie as you approach Kingston.

bdee1

05-17-11, 11:23 AM

can anybody tell me the current clear QAM channels available on fios in Albany?
I am in Selkirk and i am trying to map the stations my win7 media center found to the correct guide data.

ebo

05-18-11, 01:35 PM

bdee1:
Normally I would point you to the SiliconDust Lineup Server (http://www.silicondust.com/support/channels/) which shows what's available via antenna and clear QAM by Zip Code. It lists real and virtual channels, resolution and more. But the FiOS listing for Bethlehem comes and goes. I've seen it but it isn't there now, just antenna and TWC. I haven't found it in other local areas known to have FiOS TV either.

The listings are populated whenever an Internet-connected HDHomeRun tuner does a channel scan. It's possible but unlikely that no one has an HDHR on FiOS locally. I should be getting TV added to my FiOS service on Friday; we'll see what happens then. If it doesn't appear on the server fairly soon I'll type up a listing and post it here (other readers: feel free to beat me to it).

bdee1

05-18-11, 01:43 PM

cool.. i'll keep an eye on that silicondust page and see if the fios listings pop up.... or if someone posts it in the meantime, even better.

Good to know about that silicondust page though - thanks!

bdee1

05-19-11, 10:08 PM

i havent had any luck with the silicondust site any chance someone could post their channel mappings??

ebo

05-20-11, 07:40 PM

I should be getting TV added to my FiOS service on Friday; we'll see what happens then. If it doesn't appear on the server fairly soon I'll type up a listing and post it here (other readers: feel free to beat me to it).Friday update: Verizon didn't show. After wading through their really annoying automated phone system (and even being told at one point that their servers were inaccessible so they couldn't pull up my records; please call back in an hour) a Real Person called to apologize and promised to send someone bright and early tomorrow. So, one more day at least.

ebo

05-21-11, 05:10 PM

Saturday update: FiOS TV installed. I did a scan on an HDHomeRun and a listing for FiOS TV in Bethlehem, NY, 12054 showed up almost immediately on the SiliconDust Lineup Server (http://www.silicondust.com/support/channels/), but it's screwed up. It shows as a mix of QAM and 8VSB, and some of the RF channels shown are the broadcast channels (6, 7, 12, 13). I'll keep working on it. Meanwhile, the info bdee1 wanted is that SD versions of the locals are on RF 63 and HD versions are on RF 71, 72, 73 and 74. 2 HD subchannels to a channel with from 1 to 4 SD subchannels on each.

SemiChemE

05-22-11, 05:41 PM

Reception report for Chief Fred:

Like NervousCat I get no signal from Channel 24. I have an attic-mounted Antenna's Direct C-4 antenna (with a CM7777 pre-amp) pointed at the Albany Stations. Also, like NervousCat, I now get very good, reliable signals from WTEN, WMHT, and WCWN (>50%). Of course I also get the local Poughkeepsie stations (WRNN and WTBY) quite well, even though my antenna is pointed away from them.

As for VHF, recently (perhaps since the leaves returned), Channel 6 (WRGB) has degraded and I only get a highly pixellated image with no sound. For whatever reason, I've never been able to receive WNYT or WXXA reliably. Finally, pointing my VHF-Hi antenna toward NYC, I get WPIX very reliably, WNET is usually viewable with occasional glitches, while WABC is usually very glitchy or pixellated. My VHF antennas include a Winegard YA-1713 (VHF-hi only) and an old Taco Electron antenna (for channels 2-13).

bdee1

05-23-11, 11:17 AM

ebo - thanks for posting that info. When i go tinto media center and look at the channels that it picked up - there is nothing in the 70's. it jumps from 66.454 to 80.634.

That is with my avermedia A180 but it still shoudl pick up the same channels as the hdhomerun right?

ebo

05-23-11, 01:54 PM

bdee1:
I have no experience with Avermedia or Windows Media Center but from what I've read about the latter on the SiliconDust HDHomeRun forum I can just about guarantee that your problems are caused by WMC's design shortcomings (I had a stronger word in mind but don't want to be kicked off the forum). One problem is that WMC ignores subchannels that aren't properly identified, which is true of many on cable or FiOS. That's not the case here for the locals; both HD and SD versions are identified. But it's true of some other channels that are currently in the clear (marked UNKNOWN on the SD Lineup Server). Speaking of which, the server seems to be accurate now for FiOS in 12054 except that it's taking a long time for the thumbnails to fill in. Since the FiOS listing first appeared shortly after I switched one of my HDHomeRuns from antenna to FiOS, I suspect the listings are coming from that box.

Another possible problem is that all of those channels have 4-digit subchannel numbers. For example, WRGB-HD is on 74.1623. MCE may not be able to deal with that. It definitely couldn't in the past.

A quick look at the Avermedia A180 manual shows that it ships with its own application, AVerTV 6. Try that (or whatever the latest version is) to see if it lets you tune those channels. If so, then WMC is the problem. Someone may have worked out a solution. Also make sure WMC is up to date. A later version may have fixed that issue.

Scott_J

06-12-11, 05:06 PM

It is antennatv and it is on. Yeah. Come on me-two. Everyone time for a rescan.
From a job posting that was recently posted on WNYT's site, it looks like they've reached an agreement to carry Me-TV on 13-2:

The Digital Account Manager is responsible for generating revenue through selling advertising on wnyt.com website and ME-TV 13.2.
Isn't their weather channel currently on 13-2? Are they finally giving up on that?

The Hound

06-12-11, 10:16 PM

Looks like the weather channel would be more entertaining.
Dobie Gillis, Brady Bunch, Laverne and Shirley.
There is Hogan's Heros and Five-O.
Ah.

RJL1965

06-13-11, 12:45 PM

From a job posting that was recently posted on WNYT's site, it looks like they've reached an agreement to carry Me-TV on 13-2:

Isn't their weather channel currently on 13-2? Are they finally giving up on that?

Actually, the disappearance of weather (sub)channels from the airwaves has been going on for some time because such channels have had extremely low, if any, viewership. The stations had decided that the weather channels are better off being exclusively on mobile TV (which often requires an additional paid subscription on top of the mobile/wireless phone service).

I've been through this: Chicago now no longer has any over-the-air weather subchannels at all.

Scott_J

06-13-11, 02:29 PM

Actually, the disappearance of weather (sub)channels from the airwaves has been going on for some time because such channels have had extremely low, if any, viewership.
That's what I meant by "Are they finally giving up on that?" The "finally" implies they should've dumped it long ago, probably when NBC did away with the national Weather Plus segments. The weather subchannels are worthless. It's so much easier/better to go online or check your phone to get the forecast.

The Hound

06-13-11, 09:28 PM

I check WTEN 10-2 all the time for my weather.
I ride a bike so I need to know.
Don't use 13-2 but, would not like to see 10-2 go.

wkomorow

06-14-11, 06:12 PM

Yeah

Me is great. Maybe 13 will move their weather to .3. They are the only one with live updates on Sun morning. Another channel may be coming, though I don't when or where - pb&j.

Edit it looks like me is coming to 13.3

wkomorow

06-14-11, 06:23 PM

If you go to me-tv website and put in your zipcode - if tells you it is coming soon to wnyt.

W1KNE

06-14-11, 11:29 PM

Actually, the disappearance of weather (sub)channels from the airwaves has been going on for some time because such channels have had extremely low, if any, viewership.

That is not the main reason for the disapperance of these channels. The FCC enacted a rule that required all sub channels carry the same "childrens programming" requirement than the main channels carry, and must be independent programming. IOW, you can't just simulcast what you air on your main , on your sub. After the FCC made this ruling, weather channels started disappearing all over.

wkomorow

06-17-11, 05:27 PM

Does any one know what is going on with WMHT? Its signal has been very iffy over the last week.

wkomorow

06-20-11, 05:12 PM

Does anyone get WFNY 48 out of Gloversville - does it actually exist? It is listed on the my family tv site as an affiliate:

http://www.myfamilytv.tv/affiliate_map.htm

djb61230

06-20-11, 06:13 PM

Does anyone get WFNY 48 out of Gloversville - does it actually exist? It is listed on the my family tv site as an affiliate:

http://www.myfamilytv.tv/affiliate_map.htm

Yes I think it does exist. I mean using my HDHomerun configuration program I do get some signal on 48. However I must be getting a lot of multipath as I cannot lock it in to actually see the video. My antennas are either pointed to Albany or Utica so that is probably why. Same thing with ION out of Amsterdam, but I haven't cared enough about either station to worry about it.

I can look into further if it would be helpful.

L_G_D

06-20-11, 08:00 PM

I reconfigured my antennas Saturday and everything seemed fine then, but yesterday and today, I can't reliably get ch 23 WXXA. Is anyone else having problems, or did I mess something up? It's the only channel that's giving me trouble, and I'm even getting ch 45 now, where it was always a bit shaky.

LD

wkomorow

06-21-11, 09:24 AM

Yes I think it does exist. I mean using my HDHomerun configuration program I do get some signal on 48. However I must be getting a lot of multipath as I cannot lock it in to actually see the video. My antennas are either pointed to Albany or Utica so that is probably why. Same thing with ION out of Amsterdam, but I haven't cared enough about either station to worry about it.

I can look into further if it would be helpful.

Thanks for the info

I was looking at it because PBJ may be added there - there is no way I can get it in the Berkshires, I then started researching WFNY ans could not find any information about it.