Originally posted by Ultrix
I would specifically like to know if you can set the HD output to be the native res of the current channel (1080i for HBO but 720P for ABC). My display can do both 720P and 1080i, but the 3100HD will only output at 1080i.

Yes, you can do this on the 3250HD. Check out this document:

http://www.sciatl.com/consumers/cablingPDFs/4003114.pdf

Mine came "stock" from TWC defaulting to 1080i output. You can run the HD setup program described in the document above to enable all other modes, which are changeable which watching TV. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like it saves the output mode per channel.

In case anyone missed the post a while back, TWC will be getting HDNet and HDNet Movies.

Press release: http://www.hd.net/2003-prarchive/2003-12-16-01.html

I called the Albany TWC office to inquire as to when it will be available, and low and behold, they hadn't even heard of it yet.

There is a portion of the release that has me wondering:

"The two channels will accompany iN DEMAND's two INHD channels on a high definition destination tier, available to Time Warner Cable HD customers at an incremental retail cost."

Anytime I hear "tier", I think $$$. Do you guys think TWC will start charging extra for an "HD Tier"? I figure it's only a matter of time.

there are two guys at twc to ask for: matt bassett is one and mark flood is the other. both are business reps and seem to have a lot of info on whats going on and/or what will go on.

Hello everyone! Am new to the HD scene. Just purchased one of the small Samsung 26" 1080i 16:9 TVs at Sears. Just bit the bullet and upgraded my TW to digital with an HD box. As are most people I am thrilled with the quality of the HD broadcasts offered by TWC, but am less-than-thrilled with the amount of HD broadcasts offered by TWC.

Here is the text of my e-mail to Peter Taubkin at TWC:
Mr. Taubkin:

I am a longtime TWCable subscriber and a recent owner of an HD TV set. I just upgraded to TW Digital cable with an HD converter box.

I am disappointed with the small choice of HD broadcasts--including the selection of only Channel 10 among the local channels being presented in high-def. It is my understanding that all the local stations are currently broadcasting in high-def. Will they soon be added to your line-up? I also am very interested in receiving ESPN high-def broadcasts. How about those?

Thank you for any information you can provide in this area.


I am very seriously considering this upgrade to the digital tier for high def an experimental period and am ready to pull-the-plug if the high-def offerings don't expand quickly. I probably should have included that in my e-mail to TWC. In fact, I will based upon his response. I will post that response here upon its arrival.

Thank you all for all the information on the subject of high-def broadcasting in the greater Capital District.

The third time is the charm. Picked up Radio Shack's indoor HDTV antenna ($49.99) and it works very well for me in Guilderland. I get 6-1 WRGB-DT (CBS), 6-2 WRGB-DT All Digital Simulcast of WNYA (UPN), 13-1 WNYT-DT (NBC), 13-2/ WNYT-DT (Color Bars), 17-3 WMHT-DT (PBS-HD) and 17-4 WMHT-DT (PBS-480P) fairly easily. PBS-HD looks as good as anything else out there including Discovery HD Theater on TWC. My previous attempts with other indoor antennas yielded only WNYT. So for those who don't want to deal with an outdoor antenna, there is hope.

17-3 and 17-4.

When 17-3 (PBS-HD) is showing a static image it is stunning, but I am seeing quite a bit of pixelization when things move too quickly, more so than on WNYT-DT or WRGB-DT. I am getting a normal to good signal intensity and view on a 51" screen.

17-4 (WMHT) still has out-of-sync audio for me, anyone else?

I'm sorry to bring a newbie's ignorance to this thread. If someone can point me to an FAQ on basics, that would be great.

Here's my immediate question. When RWSimon posts:

Picked up Radio Shack's indoor HDTV antenna ($49.99) and it works very well for me in Guilderland. I get 6-1 WRGB-DT (CBS), 6-2 WRGB-DT All Digital Simulcast of WNYA (UPN), 13-1 WNYT-DT (NBC), 13-2/ WNYT-DT (Color Bars), 17-3 WMHT-DT (PBS-HD) and 17-4 WMHT-DT (PBS-480P) fairly easily.

are you guys saying you can pick up off-the-air HD signals without those real expensive HD signal converter boxes? Or do you still need one of those in addition to the antenna?

I don't see pixellation on 17-3. Looks great to me on moving images, etc.
I haven't really watched 17-4, so can't say anything about the audio....

As for needing a STB for HD, yes you do! I'm receiving it on the ATSC tuner built into my Pioneer plasma.

bOriginally posted by RWSimon
I don't see pixellation on 17-3. Looks great to me on moving images, etc.
I haven't really watched 17-4, so can't say anything about the audio....

As for needing a STB for HD, yes you do! I'm receiving it on the ATSC tuner built into my Pioneer plasma.

Pixilation is pretty bad on WRGB-DT 6-1 during sporting events. Here are the posts I made and responses about it...posts 178-182

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3008708#post3008708

I believe it's from WRGB multicasting more than just one channel which chews up available bandwidth for the HD Broadcasts...here's a thread on the subject...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=329348

Thanks for your help!

Just found the Basics FAQ. Was going to post a link to it in case there are any others lurking who may have some of the same questions I do. But, being the new kid on the block, I can't yet. :D

I sent Taubkin a similar email last month. He didn't have the courtesy to respond to mine, let's see if you get a reply.

Originally posted by lufters
I had a 3100HD but traded it in for a 3250HD.
The main differences are:
1: It runs much cooler
2: Noticeably faster channel tuning (more memory, faster processor)
3: No need for separate analog audio cables. Both Digital and Analog sound now can go though the digital output from the STB to your receiver

One real bad thing:
You can not view the program guide if you using the S-video output.
I use S-video for better picture quality on my Non-HD channels. I heard it
may be a glitch in the box and SA may come up with a patch that TW would push down. I haven't seen the patch yet.

Lufters,

I am not using the S-video output, and the program guide is still not viewable. Also, with the 3100HD the channel and program information was displayed on the bottom of the screen when changing channels. That no longer happens with the 3250HD. Is that also a result of the program guide glitch? Any info is appreciated.

The other thing I noticed right away with the new box is all vertical and horizontal bars are now gray on my tv instead of black.

Matt

Originally posted by mattalb
Also, with the 3100HD the channel and program information was displayed on the bottom of the screen when changing channels. That no longer happens with the 3250HD. Is that also a result of the program guide glitch? Any info is appreciated.

The other thing I noticed right away with the new box is all vertical and horizontal bars are now gray on my tv instead of black.

Matt

Matt: I believe the channel info and guide only appear on the component outputs. I've seen it posted in a couple of places that SciAtl is fixing the problem... question is, will we ever get it...

As for the gray bars, there is a setting that you can change to make them black. Hit the Settings (or setup, I forget) button on the remote. Scroll through the options there. One of them has to do with background color, or something similar (different than the "theme" or whatever for the program guide). You can change it to black there.

If you can't find it, post here again and when I get home, I'll look it up.

Well, I got a quick and rather lengthy response today from Mr. Taubkin which I will share with you all now. I would be interested to hear if you are surprised by any of his remarks or if all seems to be as he explains it.


Thanks very much for contacting me.

Please know that we have made and continue to make every effort to carry as much HD programming as is out there and made available to us. We have made the investment do to so and clearly wish to realize the potential of that investment by putting on the product that we have set up our infrastructure to support. We know the demand is out there from loyal customers such as yourself.

With regard to the local broadcasters, we cannot carry a signal that is not provided to us and for which we do not have an agreement to carry. As evidenced by our early carriage of WTEN HD, we have been ready to carry the local HD's for some time. In fact, for WRGB, we actually dedicated and "logoed" a channel (1806) in anticipation that we would be provided a signal. We have an agreement that would allow them to provide us with the signal, but they have yet to do so. We understand and share your frustration, and can suggest at this point that you may wish to contact WRGB to ask them why they are not providing the signal to us. As for WNYT, we do not have an agreement to carry their HD signal. I am the point person for these negotiations (as for the others), and I can only say that I remain hopeful that we can reach an agreement once the station is ready to deal with the issue. We are ready to carry their signal and have been ready for quite some time. Re: WXXA, we are ready as well, have an agreement, and are waiting for delivery of signal. We have been in close contact with our friends at WMHT, and are ready to carry their digital signals as well once they are ready to provide them to us. With regard to all of these, there is no "hold up" on our end.

As for ESPN HD, the issue is one largely of cost. We pay ESPN significant fees to get their programming (ESPN, ESPN 2, ESPN News, etc) and in fact it is such programming costs that comprise a substantial portion of the rate that makes up a customer bill. While ESPN HD might be "available", it is being made so at a cost that basically would have us pay other significant dollars to get programming that we already pay for ... but just in another form.

Again, we know the demand is out there, and certainly in the competitive environment we operate in, want to make our HD offering as valuable as possible. We'll remain hopeful that we can make a definitive positive announcement about the addition of ESPN HD and other such programming in the near future. HD programming is expensive to produce, so from that end, the question of availability is one determined by the programmers/networks. For programmers that do have it (i.e.: ESPN), please know that we are continually working to achieve all possible opportunities.

Lastly, you may have seen that we plan to launch an HD DVR in the first quarter of this year, and hopefully that will be viewed as a further demonstration of our commitment to provide this programming product. In addition, to add to the HD product that we do currently have (i.e.: Discovery, HBO, Showtime, HD In Demand, etc), we will soon be launching an HD Tier that will include HD- NET and HD NET Movies both of which will offer a variety of sports, entertainment and movie programming in HD.

I hope this provides some helpful status on HD carriage. I thank you again for getting in touch with me, and from all of us at TWC, we greatly appreciate your business and loyalty. Should you have any other or further questions, please feel free to let me know.


My response to him was as follows:

Mr. Taubkin:

Thank you for your response.

To be frank, while I appreciate your answers, I do not expect that I will continue with the digital/HD tier unless other stations are added shortly. I am not sure the extra cost for such limited product makes the investment worthy as of this writing.

I am very excited by the new technology but suspect it may be more cost-effective for me to find the signals off-the-air then to continue with the digital tier. I am quite impressed with the program guide and other features of the digital box (SciAtlanta 3250). The visual quality of the Discovery HD Theater Channel and INHD channels is beyond compare. My question will be whether they are enough to warrant the extra $ each month.

Again, thank you for your timely and expansive reply.

Originally posted by MasterFX1
17-3 and 17-4.

When 17-3 (PBS-HD) is showing a static image it is stunning, but I am seeing quite a bit of pixelization when things move too quickly, more so than on WNYT-DT or WRGB-DT. I am getting a normal to good signal intensity and view on a 51" screen.

17-4 (WMHT) still has out-of-sync audio for me, anyone else?

I have noticed the same on 17-3...while a static picture is beautiful, I have noticed that scenes showing a waterfall, a slow dissolve, or any rapid motion, pixilates more so than anything I've seen on WRGB-DT or WNYT-DT. I, too, have noticed the lip-sync issue on 17-4.

On a separate note, I'm really impressed with the response "Freezer" received from Time Warner. While I don't think that their commitment is enough to get me back from my OTA local reception and DirecTV, I'm impressed that they are treating the HD viewing community seriously.

Matt

Mr. Taubkin does not address (and that may be because he was not asked) the topics of fees for local HD signals and sub-channel carriage.

Well, Mr. Taubin's version of the WGRB story is different from WGRB's story. I wrote to their General Manager (Tom Long) and he responded with:

"We've been broadcasting in digital since July and HD since September. The reason we're not on Time-Warner is that there is no agreement between our companies which will allow them to retransmit the digital signal. We are working on it, and I hope to have this resolved relatively soon - but at this point I really don't know how long that will be. We've invested millions to be able to provide this digital service, and our real obligation is to provide the over-the-air signal. That's what we're doing, and the product is free if you have a digital receiver and antenna. However, we'll continue to work on an agreement with T-W so that the cable digital box will also work. Stay tuned."

Wonder what the "real story" is....

After much thought, I have decided to share my opinion (as biased as it might be)...

I believe that there are two different schools of thought when discussing OTA DT/HD broadcasting and cable carriage of HD signals. Cable is motivated by MONEY and SUBSCRIBERS. OTA broadcasters are looking to provide the BEST SIGNAL POSSIBLE and SERVE THE RESIDENTS OF OUR COMMUNITY.

While TW Cable is seemingly "dragging their feet" on the HD carriage issue, local broadcasters have joined together to build a community tower and digital transmission facility that will allow all of the stations to share costs and make it more economically feasible to transition to digital TV.

I am impressed that Mr. Taubkin (TWC) responded to "Freezer's" inquiry, and that TWC seems to be treating the HD viewing community with some seriousness and respect. On the other side of the coin, I am even more impressed with Mr. Long's (WRGB) frank response, and tend to believe that his response is a more accurate representation of what is really happening.

So much for my 2 cents, and thank you for reading through it!

In any event, I'm thrilled to see HD over-the-air in the Albany-Schenectady-Troy market. I am even more excited to see that there are a number of us watching and sharing feedback on this new and exciting venture!

Originally posted by RWSimon
Well, Mr. Taubin's version of the WGRB story is different from WGRB's story. I wrote to their General Manager (Tom Long) and he responded with:

"We've been broadcasting in digital since July and HD since September. The reason we're not on Time-Warner is that there is no agreement between our companies which will allow them to retransmit the digital signal. We are working on it, and I hope to have this resolved relatively soon - but at this point I really don't know how long that will be. We've invested millions to be able to provide this digital service, and our real obligation is to provide the over-the-air signal. That's what we're doing, and the product is free if you have a digital receiver and antenna. However, we'll continue to work on an agreement with T-W so that the cable digital box will also work. Stay tuned."

Wonder what the "real story" is....


......and I e-mailed WMHT's Steve Baboulis-VP/GM back in November and got a different story also. Check out posts POST #132 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2898592#post2898592) and POST #133 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2899166#post2899166) If you notice the response...I 'm sure this is WRGB's issue also. Mr. Taubin's want's to keep us happy customers since he didn't go into any real detail and probably knew it was going to be posted on this forum. An awfully long response for one person...don't you think?



-----Original Message-----
From: [mailto:jlworld@nycap.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 9:36 PM
To: rklein@wnyt.com; sbaboulis@wnyt.com
Subject: Digital signal and Time Warner Cable

Hello,

I was wondering when you would have a deal in place with Time Warner Cable to feed your new digital signal to them.

If you do have a deal with them already.....when do you think we will see the new channel on TWC?

Thanks,

John L.
Albany, NY


----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Baboulis
To: 'John L'
Cc: Laura Sousa
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 12:10 PM
Subject: RE: Digital signal and Time Warner Cable


Dear John,
Thank you for your e-mail. As you may know, our new digital signal is available over the air, as of mid-October. Unfortunately, there is currently no deal with Time-Warner for the retransmission of our digital signal on their cable system.
It is our expectation, as the provider of the signal, that the ENTIRE signal should be aired as we have sent it out. Time Warner, along with other cable providers, wishes to reserve the right to "modify" our signal, if they so choose. For instance, if WNYT broadcasts a full high-definition signal, then the cable companies say they'd have no problem sending out the full signal to all of their subscribers. However, if WNYT provided a split digital signal, perhaps including a 24 hour news or weather service, a home shopping channel, etc., then the cable operators insist on reserving the right to "strip out" any channels they wish (perhaps the ones they view as competitors to their own services). There are some other issues, but this is the main area of disagreement.
It is my hope that as more consumers buy digital tv's, they will demand of their cable operators full carriage of the local broadcasters' ENTIRE digital signal. Until then, our signal will be available by using an over-the-air antenna.
Thank you for taking the time to write.

Steve Baboulis-VP/GM
WNYT-TV


__________________

"we will soon be launching an HD Tier that will include HD- NET and HD NET Movies"

Wonder how much $$ that will be. Guess we shall find out soon.

Edit:
Actually, found my own answer. From TV Week:

"Time Warner Intros Premium HD Tier: Time Warner Cable will add HDNet
and HDNet Movies to its high-definition programming slate starting
early next year. They will be available on an HD tier to HD customers,
along with iN Demand's two HD channels for $6.95 to $9.95, depending
on the system. Time Warner is charging for the new content because
these HD channels provide 24-hour content that is not otherwise
available, a Time Warner spokesperson said. The cable operator also
offers a basic HD lineup for free, including programming from ABC,
NBC, CBS, FOX, PBS, WB, UPN, HBO, Showtime, Discovery HD Theater and
some Fox Sports regional sports networks. HDTV is available to 98
percent of Time Warner's customers."

Originally posted by slayerav
"we will soon be launching an HD Tier that will include HD- NET and HD NET Movies"

Wonder how much $$ that will be. Guess we shall find out soon.


According to other TWC HD threads from around the country...I believe it will be an extra (around) $6.95 a month.

Just another corporation "Nickel and Dimeing" us again!

Originally posted by lufters
According to other TWC HD threads from around the country...I believe it will be an extra around $6.95 a month.

Wonder if they will move inHD and inHD2 to this tier in this area or if those will remain "free".

Originally posted by slayerav
Wonder if they will move inHD and inHD2 to this tier in this area or if those will remain "free".

They will not remain free (including Discovery HD)....They will be part of the HD tier.

The TWC in Syracuse has already adopted the HD Tier charge of $6.95. I'm not sure if you can subscribe to just the HD tier and not the SD Digital.

It would be nice if a Time Warner HD sub would share his monthly costs with forum readers. How much is it these days for TWC Digital? And then tack on another $6.95.

Originally posted by MasterFX1
It would be nice if a Time Warner HD sub would share his monthly costs with forum readers. How much is it these days for TWC Digital? And then tack on another $6.95.

Here are the charges that I saw on my last TWC bill, before I went to DIRECTV:
Monthly Service: $11.50
Standard Service: $28.45
Digital Tier: $ 1.95
Digital Navigator I $ 3.00 (on-screen program guide fee)

Digital Converter $ 6.60
Digital Remote $ 0.35

FCC Fee $ 0.05
State/Local Fee $ 3.25

Total $55.15

Now, the last bill that I received was through December 31, 2003, and had language that attempts to justify the latest rate increase: basically noting that they have added more channels, and that they are "Leading the way in TV entertainment, HD, the Internet and customer service."

(Message revised to reflect fees & taxes).

Sat-Matt, thanks for the info.

My Last DirecTV Bill:

Total Choice $33.99
HD Package $10.99

TOTAL $44.98

MasterFX1:

Could you tell us what HD content you get on DirectTV? And, that $44.98 includes an STB?

DirecTV HD Tier:

ESPN-HD
Discovery HD Theater
HDnet
HDnet Movies
Special Events (like NFL Game of the Week or golf's Masters)

Also available with additional subscription: HBO-HD, SHO-HD, HD-PPV, NFL Sunday Ticket (season's now over)

With DirecTV you need an HD Sat receiver. All HD sat receivers for DirecTV are also OTA HD receivers. New subscribers can get a new HD sat box for $399 with subscription. Or you can buy a used one on eBay. Existing DirecTV customers who call and bitch can get a $200 rebate if they upgrade to an HD sat box at full price. ($500-$800).

So if it costs $55.15 to get HD on TWC and that goes up another $6.95 it'll be a total of $62.10... Good Lord, that's a difference of $17.12 ($205.44/year) over DirecTV, and if you can live without NFL Sunday Ticket, DISH network is even less expensive with the same channels. Looking at costs on a yearly basis, for me, the cost of an HD Sat box is not that much considering you can sell them when they're too old on eBay.

Then of course there's Voom. www.voom.com But the Jury is still going to be out for a while on VOOM.

Originally posted by slayerav
Matt: I believe the channel info and guide only appear on the component outputs. I've seen it posted in a couple of places that SciAtl is fixing the problem... question is, will we ever get it...

As for the gray bars, there is a setting that you can change to make them black. Hit the Settings (or setup, I forget) button on the remote. Scroll through the options there. One of them has to do with background color, or something similar (different than the "theme" or whatever for the program guide). You can change it to black there.

If you can't find it, post here again and when I get home, I'll look it up.

Slayerav,

Thanks. You're right, the program guide comes over on HD (using component cables). It would be nice to get that fixed. I haven't tried changing the gray bars, but will get to that tonight.

As for all this talk of TWC vs. Directtv/Dish, I always held out hope that TW would receive the local signals as soon as they were available. While many other people were making the switch to satellite, I stuck with TW in hopes they would increase their programming. Mostly this was because I already had a small fortune (for me!) invested in my system and didn't want to sink more money onto the satellite hardware. Every now and then TW would throw us a bone - Discovery HD, INHD, and that would keep me happy. But now this whole fiasco with carriage of the local signals and additional charges for HDnet and INHD, I will be saving to make the switch to DirectTv or Dish. I have invested alot of money into a HDTV system and satellite and OTA viewers are watching great programming while I'm holding my breath for TW.

Satellite subscribers: What kind of cost am I looking at for all the hardware to make the switch? MasterFX1 indicated the receiver is $300. How about the dish?

Matt

What burns me the most about cable is that I have to pay more and more for the trash channels they keep adding, then have to pay on top of that for HD programming. Of course, I guess the same can be said for satellite.

I thought it was a decent deal... $99.95 for RoadRunner and digital cable w/1 premium. HD was "free". Now rates are going to something like $108 plus soon another $7 or $10 to keep getting several of the HD channels.

Satellite subscribers: What kind of cost am I looking at for all the hardware to make the switch? MasterFX1 indicated the receiver is $300. How about the dish?

You'll be lucky to only find the receiver in/around the $300 price range.. it will be like finding an HDTV STB for under $200, it can be done, but you'll be a lucky son-of-a-gun!

I think somewhere around $500 is more realistic with both the Directv and Dish Network IRD/Dish combo's..

Take note..

Basic HDTV programming between the 2 are very similiar HDNET,HDNET Movies,ESPN HD,Discovery HD.. Dish Network is $9.99 a month opposed to Directv's $10.99..

Directv HDTV = 1 dish
Dish Network HDTV = 2 dishes

Dish Network has standard definition locals..($5.99 month)
Directv does not..(yet)

If money is an issue, you will save a few bucks with Dish as long as you don't lease the equipment, you want to OWN your Dish Network equipment to avoid an extra $5.00 a month per receiver..

Extra viewing rooms also play into cost here as well...

Originally posted by slayerav
What burns me the most about cable is that I have to pay more and more for the trash channels they keep adding, then have to pay on top of that for HD programming. Of course, I guess the same can be said for satellite.

I thought it was a decent deal... $99.95 for RoadRunner and digital cable w/1 premium. HD was "free". Now rates are going to something like $108 plus soon another $7 or $10 to keep getting several of the HD channels.

Slayerav.......I couldn't agree with you more. It's totally getting out of hand!!

I said it before and I'll say it again......I had it with TWC!! :mad:
I'm switching over to DirecTV sometime this year (definitely before the new NFL season).

The only concern I have with DirecTV is the Picture quality with their HD Channels. I guess there are two many channels crammed into the number of Satellites they have up. But from what I've read, some of the issues have already been fixed....and there will be a new satellite (7S, and others eventually) going up this year to hopefully fix the problem further with the addition of more HD Channels.


Here are some links about this.....

HBO-HD finally looking great on DirecTV (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=343571)

DirecTV Straight Answers (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=338598&highlight=7S)

Is there a benefit to having local channels with satellite if you plan on also having an antenna to receive OTA?

Matt

Originally posted by mattalb
Is there a benefit to having local channels with satellite if you plan on also having an antenna to receive OTA?

Matt

Going with OTA since you won't be getting the Local Channels in HD off Satellite any time soon.

This is from Directv site for Current Customers

(I can't post a link, not enough posts.)
Go to directv.c then click on hdtv on right side of page.
****************************

HD Equipment Offer for
CURRENT DirecTV CUSTOMERS

Get the equipment you need to enjoy the best in high-definition entertainment:

-DIRECTV® HD RECEIVER
-TRIPLE LNB MULTI-SATELLITE DISH
-INCLUDES STANDARD PROFESSIONAL INSTALLATION

ONLY $399
Plus tax and $24.95 shipping and handling fee. Total amount due must be paid with a valid credit card.

With a 1-year commitment to any TOTAL CHOICE® programming and to the DIRECTV® HD Package.
A high-definition television is also required and sold separately. To receive local channels in high definition, an off-air antenna is required.

ORDER NOW!
To take advantage of this special offer, just call 1-800-226-9723.
Offer ends 6/30/04

That being the case, a new DirecTV subscriber should be able to get an HD-Sat box for even less.

Shockingly, I've learned that someone new to DirecTV could sign up for an HD sytem for $379 (thought it would be way less) through www.americansatellite.com. However, you would be getting a rather crappy receiver, the Hughes E86.

BUT... an existing customer can upgrade to an HD system for $399. DirecTV says you will either get the E86 receiver (Crappy) or a Samsung SIR TS160 (Good). From what I've read on other threads, DirecTV is for the most part sending the Samsung to upgrading HD customers.

Seems odd that New customers only save $20 over the old ones, normally the hardware discounts to a new subscriber are much more. All prices included professional installation.

If you are a long time customer and have been good in making payments, you can get the HD receiver deal for $99 or so. You mileage may vary depending on which CSR you get. When you call, select Canceling your account, this takes you to the retention department. They know more about this latest winkle.

Check out the DirecTV thread in the TiVo Community forum for details.

I'm wondering if anybody knows if TWC has had the same issues nationwide with the locals.

Well, this morning, I see they've got WXXA-HD up on channel 1808...

Is the channel active? Can you tell what format (1080i,720p,480p,480i)? Fox Network does not yet have any HD programming, some of the primetime shows and NFL playoffs are 480p Widescreen and DD5.1.

The channel IS active, there was paid programming on it (not high def)when I looked earlier (I'm at work now so can't check). It was the same program as on channel 08 (SD WXXA). I have the 3250HD cable box that I have set to output 1080i, how can I tell what resolution a show is being broadcast in?

Yes, WXXA is now on Time Warner 1808 (as of last night) -- currently upconverting the NTSC path to 720p, and will pass FOX's 720p when FOX provides it.

Sat-Matt: Do you know if WXXA-DT will pass DD5.1 when available? Will the 480p Widescreen material from Fox be upconverted to 720p as well or will all network be left native?

Originally posted by lufters
Going with OTA since you won't be getting the Local Channels in HD off Satellite any time soon.


I talked to DISH yesterday and they said any HD content would be passed on any channel, if I received the local channels from them for 5.99. I didn't have to use the OTA capabilities of their hd receiver.

Is this true?

Originally posted by joeorp
I talked to DISH yesterday and they said any HD content would be passed on any channel, if I received the local channels from them for 5.99. I didn't have to use the OTA capabilities of their hd receiver.

Is this true?

NOT TRUE AT ALL!!!

You will not get locals in HD via satellite. (any system) You CAN get locals in HD using the OTA capabilities of an HD Sat box. The 5.99 local service is NOT in HD.

GOOD to know!! Thank you

Do you have any idea if the HD receiver they provide is any good for OTA reception...Model DISH 811.

WXXAHD on Ch. 1808 TWC up and running today!

I'm kind of suprised how fast this came about.

Now we can at least get the NFL Playoffs in EDTV (Enanced Widescreen 480P)...better than nothing.

....WRGB needs to get going very soon

I emailed WRGB last week to see what the deal was with getting their HD to TWC. Here is the response I got:

-------
Thanks for writing. WRGB is obligated to provide an
over-the-air signal in digital (and HD when available). We've been
doing that since July (digital) and September (HD) on channel 39. Time
Warner Cable can retransmit our digital signal to its subscribers, but only if it has an agreement with us for retransmission. Currently, there is no
agreement, but the terms are being discussed. The final agreement for
any retransmission will be negotiated, and/or approved, by the corporate
offices of both T-W and WRGB, not the local managers. I wish I could
tell you when T-W will be able to carry out signal, but right now it's up in
the air. Our digital & HD programming is available though, at no cost, to
anyone who has a digital receiver and a uhf antenna.

I wish I had a more definite answer for you. We're working on the T-W
thing, and hopefully we'll be able to reach an agreement.
-------

Originally posted by slayerav
I emailed WRGB last week to see what the deal was with getting their HD to TWC. Here is the response I got:

-------
Thanks for writing. WRGB is obligated to provide an
over-the-air signal in digital (and HD when available). We've been
doing that since July (digital) and September (HD) on channel 39. Time
Warner Cable can retransmit our digital signal to its subscribers, but only if it has an agreement with us for retransmission. Currently, there is no
agreement, but the terms are being discussed. The final agreement for
any retransmission will be negotiated, and/or approved, by the corporate
offices of both T-W and WRGB, not the local managers. I wish I could
tell you when T-W will be able to carry out signal, but right now it's up in
the air. Our digital & HD programming is available though, at no cost, to
anyone who has a digital receiver and a uhf antenna.

I wish I had a more definite answer for you. We're working on the T-W
thing, and hopefully we'll be able to reach an agreement.
-------



".....but right now it's up in the air...."

No Pun intended!
:p :p :p

Originally posted by lufters
".....but right now it's up in the air...."


Yep, at the rate it's going, it may go no farther than the air.

Now, if you go to TWC's local site (www.twalbany.com) and select HDTV, you get a pop-up window about Fox. The first couple of paragraphs:

<<Time Warner Cable is pleased to announce WXXA, the local Fox affiliate, is now available in High Definition. Prime-time and sports HD programming became available on digital cable channel 1808 on Jan. 9.

The change comes just in time for this weekend's football games! Two NFC playoff games will be contested this weekend, and the NFC Championship Game is next Sunday. All three games will be available on HDTV channel 1808.>>

As you watch the NFL on TWC channel 1808, please note that this is not a High Definition production. It is enhanced definition - 480p Widescreen, DD5.1. HD is simply defined as being either 720p or 1080i. Those of you with larger displays will notice these games as not being as sharp and crisp as channel 1810's (WTEN-DT) past NFL-HD and WRGB-DT's NFL-HD (OTA).

Originally posted by jpeter1093
Now, if you go to TWC's local site (www.twalbany.com) and select HDTV, you get a pop-up window about Fox. The first couple of paragraphs:

<<Time Warner Cable is pleased to announce WXXA, the local Fox affiliate, is now available in High Definition. Prime-time and sports HD programming became available on digital cable channel 1808 on Jan. 9.

The change comes just in time for this weekend's football games! Two NFC playoff games will be contested this weekend, and the NFC Championship Game is next Sunday. All three games will be available on HDTV channel 1808.>>


I think I may e-mail TWC on how they are misinformed about HD.

Sounds like TWC doing a little damage control since they probably won't be able to brodcast the Super Bowl In HD (1080i) thru WRGB.

Aw Lufters, I beat you earlier today :cool: Post 291 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=232530&perpage=20&pagenumber=15)

Aw Lufters, I beat you earlier today :cool: Post 291 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=232530&perpage=20&pagenumber=15)

DirecTV and Cold Weather!!!

I was surprised to come home today and learn that nothing was coming from SAT A on the DirecTV system, which is most of the SD channels. My wife said that it started last night, I guess I didn't notice because I only watched the HD channels. Anyway, I called DirecTV Tech Support and told them that I was getting the HD channels but not the SD ones and the guide kept giving me inconsistent results. They immediately asked me if there was a cold spell in place over the region. Well... yeah! (Bear in mind that on my hill it is generally 9 degree colder than downtown Albany) They then said, that it was extremely rare, but severe cold (which they defined as below 20 degrees F!!!) can effect eliptical dishes, specifically the LNB for SAT A. They suggested I wait until the Cold spell is over, but would give me a free service visit if I so desired.

I am still a little "dumb-founded" on this, not sure how I should react yet.

Originally posted by jpeter1093
Aw Lufters, I beat you earlier today :cool: Post 291 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=232530&perpage=20&pagenumber=15)

I guess you did...Don't know how I missed it. Now I feel stupid. :confused: :cool:

No need for embarassment, Lufters. We're all in this together. :) I was just excited to see another HD channel (even though not true HD yet)

Originally posted by jpeter1093
No need for embarassment, Lufters. We're all in this together. :) I was just excited to see another HD channel (even though not true HD yet)

That's what happened...I went home for lunch, saw the channel, got excited and missed the previous posts. :cool:

Originally posted by MasterFX1
Sat-Matt: Do you know if WXXA-DT will pass DD5.1 when available? Will the 480p Widescreen material from Fox be upconverted to 720p as well or will all network be left native?

The encoding equipment is set to pass the FOX network signal native, and will also pass DD5.1. As we all know, the FOX Network has committed to the 720p standard, but this weekend's sports will only be seen as "enhanced widescreen" 480p.

I don't believe that FOX has started much in the way of production on 720p as of yet.

Enjoy!

Originally posted by Sat-Matt
The encoding equipment is set to pass the FOX network signal native, and will also pass DD5.1. As we all know, the FOX Network has committed to the 720p standard, but this weekend's sports will only be seen as "enhanced widescreen" 480p.

I don't believe that FOX has started much in the way of production on 720p as of yet.

Enjoy!
Watching Fox 1808 right now...The non-EDTV picture is squeezed inward (everything is skinny)....seems like WXXA needs to work out some kinks

Originally posted by Sat-Matt
The encoding equipment is set to pass the FOX network signal native, and will also pass DD5.1. As we all know, the FOX Network has committed to the 720p standard, but this weekend's sports will only be seen as "enhanced widescreen" 480p.

I don't believe that FOX has started much in the way of production on 720p as of yet.

Enjoy!

Thanks for the info!

I had read that Mark Burnett (Of Survivor fame) is producing a reality show for Fox about running a casino in Las Vegas, shot in 720p, making it the first HD reality series.

Originally posted by lufters
Watching Fox 1808 right now...The non-EDTV picture is squeezed inward (everything is skinny)....seems like WXXA needs to work out some kinks

Now I'm watching Boston Public (Widescreen)....still have black bars on the sides (not as bad as before since it's in widescreen) of my 16x9 TV and no 5.1 surround.

Anybody else seeing the same thing??

Sounds like TWC doing a little damage control since they probably won't be able to brodcast the Super Bowl In HD (1080i) thru WRGB.

Well.......I got two e-mails from TWC today about this development. :D The first was in press release form. I believe I signed up for e-mail notices from TWC on any hi-def news. Here is the full content:

Fox programming available in high-definition

Time Warner Cable is pleased to announce WXXA, the local Fox affiliate, is now available in High Definition. Prime-time HD programming will be available beginning this evening on digital cable channel 1808.

The addition comes just in time for this weekend's football games! Two NFC playoff games will be contested this weekend, and the NFC Championship Game is next Sunday. All three games will be available on HDTV channel 1808.

There's more than just sports. You can also watch these Fox prime-time shows:


24
A Minute with Stan Hooper
Arrested Development
Bernie Mac
Boston Public
Luis
Malcolm in the Middle
Oliver Beene
Skin
The O.C.
The Ortegas
Tru Calling
Wanda at Large
Wonderfalls

Our HDTV lineup stands at seven, with more soon to follow:

1808 -- WXXA (channel 23; Fox affiliate)
1810 -- WTEN (channel 10; ABC affiliate)
1837 -- Discovery HDTV
1865 -- iNHD
1866 -- iNHD2
1870 -- HBO HDTV
1875 -- Showtime HDTV

Features coming soon include HDNet and HDNet Movies (http://www.hd.net/) and the HD Digital Video Recorder. Watch for announcements coming in future newsletters.

For more information about HDTV, see our special page on twalbany.com.


Reaching my e-mail box just one minute earlier, I got a personal e-mail from Peter Taubkin which said this:

Just wanted to make sure you knew...Today we announced the launch of WXXA HD on channel 1808. The addition is just in time for the this weekend's two NFC playoff games, and the NFC Championship Game next Sunday. All three games will be available on HDTV channel 1808.
In addition to these games, other programming will include Fox prime-time shows such as:

24

A Minute with Stan Hooper

Arrested Development

Bernie Mac

Boston Public

Luis

Malcolm in the Middle

Oliver Beene

Skin

The O.C.

The Ortegas

Tru Calling

Wanda at Large

Wonderfalls


Take Care.

For full disclosure, Mr. Taubkin used that information as a response to a reply I sent him earlier after our initial dialogue.

Mr. Taubkin:

Thank you for your response.

To be frank, while I appreciate your answers, I do not expect that I will continue with the digital/HD tier unless other stations are added shortly. I am not sure the extra cost for such limited product makes the investment worthy as of this writing.

I am very excited by the new technology but suspect it may be more cost-effective for me to find the signals off-the-air then to continue with the digital tier. I am quite impressed with the program guide and other features of the digital box (SciAtlanta 3250). The visual quality of the Discovery HD Theater Channel and INHD channels is beyond compare. My question will be whether they are enough to warrant the extra $ each month.

Again, thank you for your timely and expansive reply.

I am pleased that it seems as if TWC is listening to its customers to a certaine extent.

Oh. And I found the WXXA HD signal while surfing a little while ago and a couple of very bad home-video shows were on with that "Squeezed inward" picture. Very wide black bars on the sides.

Originally posted by lufters
Watching Fox 1808 right now...The non-EDTV picture is squeezed inward (everything is skinny)....seems like WXXA needs to work out some kinks

I just talked to WXXA Engineering about the problem. They've been aware of it and have been working on it with the network.

CHOP CHOP! :cool:

i have a widescreen hd tv. Experiencing the same inward squeezing as others with FOX, WXXA. Anyone know what is going on?

Originally posted by djw1978
i have a widescreen hd tv. Experiencing the same inward squeezing as others with FOX, WXXA. Anyone know what is going on?

The post Post #317 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3183582#post3183582) right above you.

If you have an expand feature on your TV, use it...it basiclly takes care of the problem. I thing you might lose some resolution though.

This is my first post I’ve been lurking awhile, great forum.

I think the “squeeze” is due to the fact that it is not a true HD broad cast. I’m pretty sure that Fox ED is a 480p broadcast so the box is up converting it to 1080i and 16x9 TVs handle the signal differently than a true HD signal. If you change the out put on your box to 480p standard, the squeeze will go away. Zoom with the box or your TV and it will fill the screen without distortion. Mine looks best with the TV at 16;9 standard (Hitachi 51uwx20b) and the cable box doing the zoom. You need to have the 3250 boxes to do this I don’t think the older boxes have this feature

I can't do any stretching with my tv when in "HD" mode. Stretching options (there are 4 or 5), with the sony 50 inch lcd's, is only available when in non HD mode (DVD, cable, antenaa, etc...).

Unfortunately, I have a 3100 box. Maybe I'll mess around with it but ,based on the post above, sounds like only the 3250 HD box will do this.

Why is fox the only one that is different?

Thanks,
Dave

Originally posted by Tconnors
This is my first post I’ve been lurking awhile, great forum.

I think the “squeeze” is due to the fact that it is not a true HD broad cast. I’m pretty sure that Fox ED is a 480p broadcast so the box is up converting it to 1080i and 16x9 TVs handle the signal differently than a true HD signal. If you change the out put on your box to 480p standard, the squeeze will go away. Zoom with the box or your TV and it will fill the screen without distortion. Mine looks best with the TV at 16;9 standard (Hitachi 51uwx20b) and the cable box doing the zoom. You need to have the 3250 boxes to do this I don’t think the older boxes have this feature

Untrue...Even though it's a non-HD broadcast at 480p, it is presented in Widescreen (16x9). So you shouldn't have to do anything to the picture format.

I have a 3250 also...the Zoom, Stretch, etc has no effect on my picture while using the component outputs (used for HD). Are you using the component Outputs on your 3250?? If not... your not getting any HD.

Originally posted by lufters
Untrue...Even though it's a non-HD broadcast at 480p, it is presented in Widescreen (16x9). So you shouldn't have to do anything to the picture format.

I have a 3250 also...the Zoom, Stretch, etc has no effect on my picture while using the component outputs (used for HD). Are you using the component Outputs on your 3250?? If not... your not getting any HD.



Not really. I understand that you need to use the component outputs to get true HD. Like you I am also using the component output. It’s the format that you’re outputting that counts. All of the wide output 480p, 480i, 720p and 1080i are not affected by the stretch-zoom options on the box. But as stated above the 480p standard and 480i standard can be adjusted by the options on the box. I have no idea if XXA or TW is doing something that screwing-up this signal, they probably are. But this is a way to work around it for now. Give it a try it looks pretty good

Originally posted by Tconnors
Not really. I understand that you need to use the component outputs to get true HD. Like you I am also using the component output. It’s the format that you’re outputting that counts. All of the wide output 480p, 480i, 720p and 1080i are not affected by the stretch-zoom options on the box. But as stated above the 480p standard and 480i standard can be adjusted by the options on the box. I have no idea if XXA or TW is doing something that screwing-up this signal, they probably are. But this is a way to work around it for now. Give it a try it looks pretty good

It's WXXA....they said they were working on the problem when I called them today. Post #319 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3183591#post3183591)

Originally posted by lufters
It's WXXA....they said they were working on the problem when I called them today. Post #319 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3183591#post3183591)

It would seem as if this is a problem with the output of the FOX Network receiver...everything that WXXA sends from their plant that is SD (commercials, local programming, syndication) looks to be the standard 4:3, but any FOX Network programming is squeezed horizontally. I'm suggesting that it might be their receiver, since I know that they are passing FOX along native...

Sat-Matt: I know you stated that FOX is being passed through at 480p and not being upconverted to 720p. But if they were upconverting a 480p wide broadcast to 720p, but forgetting to change the aspect of the input on the upconverter, I could see how this problem would occur. Possible or no?

Originally posted by Tconnors
Not really. I understand that you need to use the component outputs to get true HD. Like you I am also using the component output. It’s the format that you’re outputting that counts. All of the wide output 480p, 480i, 720p and 1080i are not affected by the stretch-zoom options on the box. But as stated above the 480p standard and 480i standard can be adjusted by the options on the box. I have no idea if XXA or TW is doing something that screwing-up this signal, they probably are. But this is a way to work around it for now. Give it a try it looks pretty good


Thanks, works great!

Not MNF, but FOX isn't doing any HD yet so 480p is as good as your going to get. Letting the box do the zoom looks better on my TV too.

Does anyone else think that WXXA on 1808 is not as colorful as it should be (I guess it's called saturation)? I flip back and forth between ch 8 and 1808 and there is far less color on 1808. Other HD channels are fine (1810, Discovery HD, etc).

I thought so too, although I only watched 1808 for a few moments becasue my 3100 Box wouldn't make the adjustment. What a joke TWC is turning out to be.

Paul

Originally posted by Paul B. Musser
I thought so too, although I only watched 1808 for a few moments becasue my 3100 Box wouldn't make the adjustment. What a joke TWC is turning out to be.

Paul

Probably not TWC's fault. In any event, you should be able to exchange your 3100 for a 3250. The Albany office near Crossgates has them, and I imagine others do too.

i will switch at least one of my 2 boxes, probably both, but has anyone figured out what the squeeze has actually done to the resolution? TWC sent out these great emails promoting this event (FOX in HD - NOT) without checking to make sure it is actually working correctly.
I have a Samsung OTA HD reciever on the way, so hopefully I will see the PATS in true HD this weekend.

When the Sopranos ends in May, I'll get rid of HBO. If TWC doesn't carry ALL of the locals in HD, I'll get rid of digital cable as well.

Originally posted by Paul B. Musser
I have a Samsung OTA HD reciever on the way, so hopefully I will see the PATS in true HD this weekend.

I hate to say this (not sure if it's only me) but you will not be seeing true HD next weekend on WRGB-DT. Check out my posts....#178 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3008708#post3008708) , #180 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3010354#post3010354) and post #182 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3010726#post3010726).

I believe WRGB-DT is not allocating enough bandwidth for their HD broadcasts especially for a fast moving sport such as football. The picture gets extremely pixilated at times along with the "dancing grass" effect. Maybe I notice it more because I have a 65" TV.

I thought about getting a hold of WRGB engineering and asking them if they could shut down their other channels temporally so they could give full needed bandwidth for the HD Super Bowl on Feb 1st.

Anyone think that's a good idea??

If WRGB is in fact limiting the bandwidth, that is a real problem that should be protested by us early adopters. Have they in fact admitted that they aren't sending out as good of a signal as they could? Or at least at the national average for CBS affiliates (what ever that is?) I can't really comment until I see it this weekend. I have a Sony projector on a 92" screen, so pixelization problems should be obvious.
How do CBS network programs look?

Paul

ps: TWC called me twice tonight to invite me to try Showtime, CInemax and Starz for free for a month. I said sure.

Originally posted by Paul B. Musser
If WRGB is in fact limiting the bandwidth, that is a real problem that should be protested by us early adopters. Have they in fact admitted that they aren't sending out as good of a signal as they could? Or at least at the national average for CBS affiliates (what ever that is?) I can't really comment until I see it this weekend. I have a Sony projector on a 92" screen, so pixelization problems should be obvious.
How do CBS network programs look?

Paul

ps: TWC called me twice tonight to invite me to try Showtime, CInemax and Starz for free for a month. I said sure.

Network programs look good.

If you see what I seen on every CBS (WRGB) NFL game, you'll be disappointed. But don't get me wrong...it sure beats that awful analog picture most of America is still watching. I guess we need to take the good and the bad with new technology. :cool: .....but some stuff we shouldn't have to put up with.


"The picture was very clear (better than MNF on TWC 1810) during close ups with very little movement....but if you had a camera angle with a close-up of players running or with any fast movement, the picture became extremely pixilated"

A ot of reviewers have talked about 720P (ABC) being better movement and sports, and 1080i being better for tv programing and most movies. Could that account for the differences, or do you believe its more than that?

Have you had a chance to look at any sports on NBC (1080i)?

Ok guys, and maybe girls, could you please help me out. I'd start another thread, but I thought I could get a faster answer here. I live in Ballston Spa, and I'm looking to go OTA with a Set-Top Box. I've done a lot of reading and looking around, but I want some honest answers I know I'll get here. I have the HD Box from TW, but want the other channels. What would be the best equipment that I can purchase to get the job done. I checked the antenna page, and it seems that I can get all the "blue" stations. That being 6 and 13, as well as a few others. I'm willing to spend a little money, but I want to do it right, and not kick myself for my investment if it didn't go right. So, what setup do you guys think would suit my needs? Thanks for your help, as I appreciate it very much.

I just ordered a used Samsung 151 OTA only tuner for around $200.00 form Ebay. That's bottom of the rung, but I'm in the same position as you w/ TWC. If you want to spend more, Samsung has units with DVI out if your tv will take it. I've heard very good things about the Zenith 420 (around $400.00 new) which is OTA - only and the Zenith 520 (around $500 new) which adds a Direct TV and cable tuner. You will also obviously need some sort of antenna. I'm trying the $50.00 Radio shack 1st because some else on this thread in Guilderland had good luck with it.

Hope this helps.

Paul

Originally posted by Paul B. Musser
A ot of reviewers have talked about 720P (ABC) being better movement and sports, and 1080i being better for tv programing and most movies. Could that account for the differences, or do you believe its more than that?

Have you had a chance to look at any sports on NBC (1080i)?

I've thought about it but it's just not the case according to what I've read on other threads in the AVS Forum. I think most people like 1080i for sports since it's crisper.

720p or 1080i football? (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=346791&highlight=1080i+for+sports)

I've seen College Hockey, Boxing, Tennis, Wrestling on INHD without any pixilation (at least not noticeable). It's very distracting on WRGB.

I'm almost positive it's a bandwidth issue. But it seems I'm the only one on this local board that's complaining about it.

Anybody else seeing what I'm seeing??

Originally posted by Paul B. Musser
A ot of reviewers have talked about 720P (ABC) being better movement and sports, and 1080i being better for tv programing and most movies. Could that account for the differences, or do you believe its more than that?

Have you had a chance to look at any sports on NBC (1080i)?

I have seen 720P on basketball and agree that it's generally better than 1080i. Unfortunately, Time Warner converts ABC's 720P to 1080i before they send it, so if you want a true comparison, you'll need an OTA system after WTEN signs on their HDTV transmitter. Note that many displays also convert from one scanning format to another, so it's hard to know what you're really seeing. If you want to compare progressive vs. interlace using ESPN HD in 720P, you'll need a satellite dish. The smoothness of motion on 60 frame progressive is impressive. The extra sharpness of 1080i video will only be noticable on displays with native resolutions higher than 1280 by 720. If you look close, a 720P display is softer horizontally than vertically, but still far better than SD. Also, and in spite of the hype, Time Warner is carrying Fox in 480P widescreen converted to 1080i. That's similar to the resolution of a DVD, but not HD. The Fox network expects 720P production to begin this fall.

I would advocate shutting 6-2 down during both the Superbowl and the Grammys to devote full bandwidth on 6-1. I don't know if it is feasable, but I would advocate for it.

IMO, these two events (on consecutive Sundays on CBS) represent the absolute best live HD productions taking place to date.

Looks like TW sent out an upgrade to the 3250 boxes. You can now zoom and stretch the 1080i and 720p outputs. XXA looks like it's ok now even at 1080i, we'll have to wait for a ED broadcast to be sure. You can also see the guide on the s-video output. Have to play with it more tonight.

It is true that a full bandwith 1080i (very rare since most source material is not full horizontal bandwidth) with a still picture on a display capable of full horizontal resolution display (not very common either) can have more detail than a 720p source. But once movement is involved 720p has far better apparent resolution for a host of reasons. But since most HDTV displays are not very mature at this stage and since source material production is not very mature yet either, lots of fudge factors make the difference less than obvious.

Give it 5 to 10 years and no one will want to produce or view interlaced material once the apparent resolution advantages of progressive scan can be viewed as intended. This is not to say that 1080i is crap. A swith to 1080p for production will be the next step to improved viewing as even larger displays become common.

Richard.

Originally posted by Feirstein

Give it 5 to 10 years and no one will want to produce or view interlaced material once the apparent resolution advantages of progressive scan can be viewed as intended.

Richard. [/B]

This may be true for live sports, but because most prime time drama is shot on film at 24P, there are not enough frames to give 720P (which sends out 60 progressive frames per second) any advantage over 1080i (which uses 60 interlaced frames per second.) Because there is no movement of the film frame, an interlaced film frame at 1080i becomes progressive and is actually sharper than a progressive film frame at 720P. In addition, any display with 3/2 pulldown capability turns all film transmissions into a progressive image anyway.

tconnors,
I called TWC . They said that there was no upgrade but I can exchance my 3250 for a another 3250 and give it a try. Help

I'll check my 3250 tonight to see if I notice any changes.

Originally posted by therpmguy
tconnors,
I called TWC . They said that there was no upgrade but I can exchance my 3250 for a another 3250 and give it a try. Help

Yes there was an upgrade done. Another instance of TWC being completely Clueless. Tconnors you are correct!

We now can see the Guide on the S-Video output (we couldn't before) and the stretch modes work with 1080i and 720p outputs.

My box was also reset to channel 1 when I turned it on today. If TWC didn't do an upgrade they did something else because these options weren't available before.

Heres a good link... SA3250 Comprehensive Review Guide - Notes and Setup (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=346428&perpage=20&pagenumber=1)

Can someone just confirm that the local channels (WRGB and WNYT) are outputing a Digital signal all day long (even when sending out SD), and not just when they have a HD program to show? I'm having trouble finding the tower on my new box. Also, for WRGB, do you turn to the channel to 6.1 or 39 or either?

thanks,

Paul

I had my box on at 5:30am this morning watching the news when the upgrade happened, the box shut down the picture and symbols and numbers flashed on the box's display for 15 minutes. I knew an upgrade was happening but until I read this thread, I didn't know what.

Another thing I noticed when switching modes, before the TV displayed 480i or 1080i. Now it shows 480i normal and 1080i normal

Originally posted by Paul B. Musser
Can someone just confirm that the local channels (WRGB and WNYT) are outputing a Digital signal all day long (even when sending out SD), and not just when they have a HD program to show? I'm having trouble finding the tower on my new box. Also, for WRGB, do you turn to the channel to 6.1 or 39 or either?

thanks,

Paul

Yes it's a digital signal 24/7. Tune your box to 39 for WRGB-DT which will show 6-1 on your box. It will also see 6-2 and 6-3 on ch 39. Kind of confusing if you ask me. Check out..Post #1 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=1936453#post1936453)

You also have to remember the WRGB-DT is on the UHF and WNYT-DT is on VHF. I had a hard time getting both thru my RCA Indoor powered Antenna, but I now I have it adjusted just right.

Lufters and MasterFx1, what STB's do you guys own? Would you buy them again?

Originally posted by jpeter1093
Lufters and MasterFx1, what STB's do you guys own? Would you buy them again?

I have the Samsung SIR-T151. I had the SIR-T351 and returned it. I was not happy with it because of the constant audio drop outs I had. I have read that a lot of them are defective with a Dolby Digital problem.

Samsung SIR-T351 Dolby Digital drops out (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=308880&highlight=samsung+SIRT351)

I'am happy with my T151.

lufter,

I just got the 151 as well. what kind of antenna are you using. Confirm you just hooked it all up, turned them the 151 to a channel (like 39) and moved your antenna until you found the tower, and the signal meter activated? Mine doesn't seem to get anything - it just says "No Signal" I might have gotten a dud :<

Lufters,
One more thing. When you change channels, it says in the top right corner "CATV 6-0" or some other channel, correct?

thanks,
Paul

Paul-

Is your antenna located indoors or outside?

Best results would be an external roof mount antenna. If you are using an indoor antenna you will want one that has a built in amplifier. I have experimented with non-amplified antennas and got unsatifactory results..
A compass would help in your case as well..

Breakstuff,

I bought a amplified indoor uhf/vhf antenna which gets analog signals to the tv no problem. I also have a large directional antenna in the attic which I aimed in the general direction of the new tower with no luck, yet it picks up 6/13 analog no problem. I have a compass somewhere and I will try to find it, but I'm not sure that is the problem. Through the Samsung, I'm getting nothing at all on the meter.

P

Originally posted by Paul B. Musser
Breakstuff,

I bought a amplified indoor uhf/vhf antenna which gets analog signals to the tv no problem. I also have a large directional antenna in the attic which I aimed in the general direction of the new tower with no luck, yet it picks up 6/13 analog no problem. I have a compass somewhere and I will try to find it, but I'm not sure that is the problem. Through the Samsung, I'm getting nothing at all on the meter.

P

Note that channel 13 is located north of Troy. The digital tower is in the Helderbergs near Thatcher Park. Try aiming your attic antenna for the best reception of WEWB analog on channel 45 and then connect the antenna to your Samsung. Or, there may be a menu selection on the Samsung that you're missing. Note that you must put the Samsung into the search mode and it must find a DTV signal before the signal meter will function.

Paul-
As noted by TowerGuy, many tuners need to perform an autoscan in order to tune-in digital channels for the first time. Also, both WRGB-DT and WNYT-DT are broadcasting digital audio, it is a digital channel, if you hear any audio from a digital channel it is safe to assume it is digital. Dolby Digital 5.1 is another story. My audio receiver will automatically switch between Digital Stereo and DD5.1. Right now (7:20pm EST), both 6-1 and 13-1 are showing local up-converted programs. 13-1 says Dolby D but is not 5.1, 6-1 says Digital Stereo. During network programming when DD5.1 is available, both stations are able to pass along the DD5.1 signal.

Jpeter-
I am using the Zenith Sat520. I previously had a Panasonic TU-HDS20. The panasonic was crap... It had an unusually loud fan, took upto 30 seconds sometimes to change a channel and just had a less than useful interface, not to mention it could not receive WRGB-DT at my location with my existing antenna setup. The Zenith is way, way better. However, it does freeze and need to be re-booted about once every week or two. From what I have learned, LG makes the boxes for both Sony and Zenith. Thus similiar generation boxes from all 3 are really the same. The conclusion I reached after many nights of reading the hardware forums was that people are most happy with those three LG-made brands. The original RCA100 HD receiver (the first DirecTV HD receiver you could get) is still considered by owners (some of which now own more than 3 DTV receivers) to be the best and most reliable. I don't know if it even possible to get a new RCA100.

I've got it now. It was set for cable for some reason and had to be switched to antenna (hidden deep in the menu and the manaual). I'm getting 6 and 13. It 17-3 broadcasting tonight? I haven't gottne anythinh form WMHT yet.

thanks to all,
Paul

Yes, both 17-3 (HD) and 17-4 (SD) are currently broadcasting at this time..

Originally posted by lufters
I just talked to WXXA Engineering about the problem (picture is squeezed). They've been aware of it and have been working on it with the network.

CHOP CHOP! :cool:


WXXA-DT 1808 is now fixed. :cool:

Don't see any 5.1 Surround though.

Don't see any 5.1 Surround though.

Currently the only FOX event broadcasting 5.1 would be HD NFL football games...

http://www.dolby.com/ht/pa.in.dtv5.1list.html

Originally posted by BreakStuff
Currently the only FOX event broadcasting 5.1 would be HD NFL football games...

http://www.dolby.com/ht/pa.in.dtv5.1list.html

It's actually EDTV Football Games...TWC brainwashing you?? :D

Great link...thanks. :cool:

I've also noticed WXXA is expanding their picture on their local stuff. Which is cool for "burn in" prevention. To bad the other locals didn't do this also. :cool:

Note -

Now there're not expanding the local stuff.

Well, sometimes FOX is expanding their content on ch 1808, other times they are not. I dont know what is going on, but at least they are compressing the EDTV stuff anymore , I can deal with stretched by watching regular FOX on ch 8, but the compression problem was just plain annoying.

Is anyone else not getting digital sound out of their 3250HD boxes since the upgrade? My receiver light doesn't come on like usual, indicating a digital signal (no matter how many channels)

Originally posted by jpeter1093
Is anyone else not getting digital sound out of their 3250HD boxes since the upgrade? My receiver light doesn't come on like usual, indicating a digital signal (no matter how many channels)

I still have digital on my 3250.

Make sure your audio settings on the box are set to Digital out (Dolby Digital).

Hit the settings button twice to get to the menu with the audio settings.

If that's not it...try rebooting the box.

I still have digital audio from my upgraded 3250 (that's the only way I have it hooked up).

Fox news was expanded on 1808 tonight for about 5-10 minutes. It then jumped back to no-stretch when I was in another room.

On a positive note, the color saturation looks correct now, as opposed as virtually colorless last week.

Yep, my bad. I had inadvertantly re-assigned the cable box's digital input on my receiver to the CD selector. Works fine now, thanks, fellas.

In regards to TWC and the local HDTV pricing and all that.

I got an email from Mr. Taubkin (I was a bit surprised to even get a response).

He seemed surprised that there is any sort of "price increase" for an HD Tier. He stated that InDemand1 and InDemand2 are already on the digital tier.

I sent him the link to here which listed the TV Week Quote stating that TW will implement an HDTV Tier.

But that's the last I've heard. Guess silence means that it is true and we will have to pay extra now (although seems that DirecTV is starting to charge extra for HDTV content and DISH has been charging extra for quite some time--at least for Discovery HD Theater)

I don't buy it that he hadn't heard of the HD Tier elsewhere. It's only a matter of time that they will have enough content to be able to charge for the HD channels. I'm guessing HD Net/Movies will put them over this line.

This is my first post here, I have read the whole thread and it is very informitive. Thanks guys! Does anyone believe that TWC will use channel 1801 for the Super Bowl broadcast or do you think we will miss it do to them negotiating with WRGB. I'm thinking of getting a STB and an indoor antenna to pick-up CBS, NBC & PBS but I will need an HD switcher due to my HDTV having only 2 480i/480p/1080i component inputs. Any thoughts.

I was thinking about getting the STB and antenna myself for the same reasons as you and then selling them once TWC gets its act together regarding the locals.

Originally posted by jpeter1093
I was thinking about getting the STB and antenna myself for the same reasons as you and then selling them once TWC gets its act together regarding the locals.

That's why I bought a STB...but I don't plan on keeping it after the Super Bowl and Grammy's this year.

I wouldn't depend on TWC to get their act together and go get one ASAP. They were out of stock at Best Buy recently and I had to convinced the sales person/manager to give me a floor model.

A lot of people with new HDTV's from Christmas will finally figure this mess out (if they haven't already) and realize the only way to get the Super Bowl in HD is thru OTA.

WRGB updated their web site today to include this HDTV FAQ.

http://www.wrgb.com/special.asp?Selection=wrgb_hdtv

Nothing in life is a guarantee, but it is extremely unlikely that TWC in our market will have the Superbowl in HD. If you want it in HD, you'll need an OTA-HD setup. Sure, there's a .0001% chance that an agreement is reached at the last second, so make sure there's at least a 2 week return policy on anything you buy.

Originally posted by MasterFX1
WRGB updated their web site today to include this HDTV FAQ.

http://www.wrgb.com/special.asp?Selection=wrgb_hdtv

I love it... "Locally, Time Warner... does not yet include important programming options such as WRGB..."

Maybe we should all watch WTEN or WXXA during the Superbowl...

Wow, that's quite a shot across the bow. Sounds like someone is PO'd about something.

Yeah, I guess it was a bit harsh! :) I'm just PO'd that I won't be able to watch the Superbowl in HD at my place with my new RPTV. I'm not ready to plunk down the $$$ for an OTA receiver because as soon as I do, all the channels will be on cable... just my luck!

Originally posted by slayerav
I'm not ready to plunk down the $$$ for an OTA receiver because as soon as I do, all the channels will be on cable...

1. Return policy - most retailers have one.

2. How much did you spend on your set? And the tuner's too much?

3. eBay.


FYI - This is exactly why the FCC has forced the Consumer Electronics industry to integrate tuners into sets. I think by 2007 all new sets will have a tuner built in.

Also- If TWC decides to move to a pay HD tier (as in Syracuse) you may wish to receive the networks for free OTA.

Originally posted by MasterFX1
1. Return policy - most retailers have one.

2. How much did you spend on your set? And the tuner's too much?

3. eBay.


FYI - This is exactly why the FCC has forced the Consumer Electronics industry to integrate tuners into sets. I think by 2007 all new sets will have a tuner built in.

Also- If TWC decides to move to a pay HD tier (as in Syracuse) you may wish to receive the networks for free OTA.

30 day return policy at both Circiut City and Best Buy...no questions asked.

Let's see.....bought my STB and powered indoor Antenna on Sat. Jan 10 to start the NFL Divisional playoffs, takes me thru this Sunday for the AFC Championship, the following Sunday (Feb. 1st) for the Super Bowl,and I'm good till after the Grammy's on Feb.8th if I want to return it. :D

Lufters, I know you have the T151, what powered indoor attenna do you have? Did you get that at BB or Circuit City as well? I'm thinking of getting the Motorola HDT 100 at CC, but not sure what attenna to pair with it.

Originally posted by jpeter1093
Lufters, I know you have the T151, what powered indoor attenna do you have? Did you get that at BB or Circuit City as well? I'm thinking of getting the Motorola HDT 100 at CC, but not sure what attenna to pair with it.

I have the RCA High Power (35-45dB) ANT1250 indoor antenna. BB and CC both have it.

When you get it hooked up, you have to remember that WRGB-DT and WMHT-DT are on UHF and WNYT-DT is on VHF. I had a hard time getting both UHF and VHF channels at the same time...it was either one or the other. Depending where you live and where you have your antenna placed has a lot to due with your reception.

Most of the time whenever I had the UHF channels locked in (which is the center round antenna)...as soon as I extended the antennas for the VHF I lost the the UHF channels. But after a lot of trail and error I finally got both UHF and VHF antennas adjusted just right.....Get that? :D

I didn't have much luck with the RCA 1250 antenna in Guilderland.
I eventually tried the Radio Shack HDTV indoor antenna ($50) and it brings in all the local DT channels with no problem.
It's worth a shot.

I have the Radio Shack and a Zenith Silver Sensor. I haven't found one perfect setting yet for 6, 13 and 17 yet, but I'm still trying. So far the RS is working better for me.

P

Ps. I actually have an old VHS antenna mounted in my attic from the previous owners, with a 300 Ohm line down to the system. It gets 13 well, but not the UHF channels. I tried the Silver Sensor up there with no luck at all.

I have checked out AntennaWeb.org and the web page had everything OTA in yellow for my area. After reading the current replies I might consider getting an STB with an indoor antenna. How much trial & error is expected? Should I buy the Radio Shack antenna? Thanks!

Originally posted by Paul B. Musser
I actually have an...old antenna mounted in my attic from the previous owners, with a 300 Ohm line down to the system. It gets 13 well, but not the UHF channels.

I would highly recommend trying a gain amp on the "old" attic antenna, just get a $1 coax adapter (swiches the "Crows Feet" wire to a "Cable" wire) from Radio Shack and a $10-$20 line amp. It would be better if the line amp was in the attic at the "Head End," and you replace the 300 ohm wiring in the house to coax. Hook that old antenna (with a new amp) right up to your HD-OTA receiver.

If that old antenna already has a line amp, then it may be the best you can do. My antenna came with the house, and without a line amp could only get Ch. 6 analog, nothing else! Notice my elevation (2000'), once I hooked a line amp to my old antenna I was getting stations from 5 totally different markets: Albany, Hartford, Utica, Springfield and even Canada. Note: It's my elevation that helps the most, but without the line amp, I only got one channel, now I get more than 20.

MAsterfx1,

Thanks for the info. I'm a little new to all this. What exactly is the "line amp". Any chance you could provide a link to one or a model #. Is there any way to do it witout replacing the 300 Ohm wiring?

One last option... do they make something that would let me plug both a 75 Ohm coax line and the 300 Ohm line into it, right behind the HD box? without degrading the signal stregth too much.

At the moment, I have the RS antenna in a basement window and I'm getting 6 and 13 fairly well, but not 17.

TWC in Albany,NY sent a software update to all 3250HD boxes on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 that enabled the DVI output. I stumbled upon this when I came home from work and my 3250HD was "stuck" with a display of "530" on the display. I called TWC and they explained about the update. In fact, the customer service guy let me know exactly what they were told. Here it is:

All: Tomorrow morning between 5:00AM and 5:30AM we will be sending new software to all 3250HD settops in the system. This upgrade will allow
us to begin using the DVI port on this type of converter. This is the
only change that this update will include. Customers will see their
settop reboot and then begin to load the new software. Once the clock
comes back on they will be all set. Please do not have customers reboot
their converter during this process or it will need to begin over again
once the settop is plugged back in.

Also, please note that we do not supply the DVI cable that will be
needed to use this port. This (DVI) cable will come with the
television, or the customer will need to purchase one where they
purchased the television. Further, there are a number of different types
of DVI cables and the customer should verify that they have the correct
one for connecting to a television before hooking it up.

Finally, remember that this type of connection to an HD television (DVI)
bypasses many of the functions on the SA settop. This means that if the
television does not support Things like zooming or stretching of the
picture or upconverting to 1080i from 720p, for example, then those
functions will not be available to those customers unless they reconnect
their televisions with the component hookup that we supply. Thanks.

I hooked up my DVI cable on Wednesday and went through the 3250HD's advanced setup wizard. I have noticed a "problem" when viewing SD channels...the picture is shifted to the left, leaving a portion off the screen and also leaving a black vertical bar on the right.

I called TWC and the customer service guy had no clue, trying to tell me it was my TV, but I did not have this problem before hooking up my DVI cable. He scheduled a service visit for this coming Wednesday Jan 21.

Has anyone else had this problem or maybe know how to fix this?

Originally posted by AlbanyHDTV
TWC in Albany,NY sent a software update to all 3250HD boxes on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 that enabled the DVI output. I stumbled upon this when I came home from work and my 3250HD was "stuck" with a display of "530" on the display. I called TWC and they explained about the update. In fact, the customer service guy let me know exactly what they were told. Here it is:

All: Tomorrow morning between 5:00AM and 5:30AM we will be sending new software to all 3250HD settops in the system. This upgrade will allow
us to begin using the DVI port on this type of converter. This is the
only change that this update will include. Customers will see their
settop reboot and then begin to load the new software. Once the clock
comes back on they will be all set. Please do not have customers reboot
their converter during this process or it will need to begin over again
once the settop is plugged back in.

Also, please note that we do not supply the DVI cable that will be
needed to use this port. This (DVI) cable will come with the
television, or the customer will need to purchase one where they
purchased the television. Further, there are a number of different types
of DVI cables and the customer should verify that they have the correct
one for connecting to a television before hooking it up.

Finally, remember that this type of connection to an HD television (DVI)
bypasses many of the functions on the SA settop. This means that if the
television does not support Things like zooming or stretching of the
picture or upconverting to 1080i from 720p, for example, then those
functions will not be available to those customers unless they reconnect
their televisions with the component hookup that we supply. Thanks.

I hooked up my DVI cable on Wednesday and went through the 3250HD's advanced setup wizard. I have noticed a "problem" when viewing SD channels...the picture is shifted to the left, leaving a portion off the screen and also leaving a black vertical bar on the right.

I called TWC and the customer service guy had no clue, trying to tell me it was my TV, but I did not have this problem before hooking up my DVI cable. He scheduled a service visit for this coming Wednesday Jan 21.

Has anyone else had this problem or maybe know how to fix this?

Good possibility it's your TV. I know early 2004 Mitsubishi TV Models had a problem with the DVI Input....but a lot of of the problems I believe turned out to be a cable issue.

http://www.hometheaterspot.com/htsthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=467717&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1


Here's a good forum link if you want to research a manufacture...

http://www.hometheaterspot.com/htsthreads/ubbthreads.php?Cat=&C=5

I went to CC today and picked up the Motorola HDT100 STB along with the RCA 1250 indoor antenna. I'm picking up all my locals fine. I'm noticing some pixelation with WRGB though. When ABC & FOX go OTA will I be able to pick these up just as well or is there a chance I will need a different antenna? Thanks again!

Originally posted by ThePrisoner
I went to CC today and picked up the Motorola HDT100 STB along with the RCA 1250 indoor antenna. I'm picking up all my locals fine. I'm noticing some pixelation with WRGB though. When ABC & FOX go OTA will I be able to pick these up just as well or is there a chance I will need a different antenna? Thanks again!

You should have no trouble with ABC. They're about a month away from on air. Fox doesn't know if they're going to get channel 7 or channel 4. You should have no trouble with channel 7. If they get channel 4, it depends on your antenna. An on air date Fox is at least six months away, and probably longer.

Thank you Tower Guy. Looks like I might just keep my TWC HD package along with my new set-up for local HD than. Why does WRGB pixel more than the others?

Originally posted by Paul B. Musser
MasterFX1,

What exactly is the "line amp". Any chance you could provide a link to one or a model #. Is there any way to do it witout replacing the 300 Ohm wiring?

http://www.radioshack.com/category.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F001%5F003%5F001&Page=1

This link is worth checking out. There's two pages of products that can help you.

Originally posted by ThePrisoner
Thank you Tower Guy. Looks like I might just keep my TWC HD package along with my new set-up for local HD than. Why does WRGB pixel more than the others?

Are you talking about Signal Pixilation or Picture Quality Pixilation?

I know I beat this to death but take a look at my post #332 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3195027#post3195027)

Check out tomorrow's AFC Championship Game at 3:00 on WRGB-DT and you'll know what I'm talking about.

Originally posted by lufters
Are you talking about Signal Pixilation or Picture Quality Pixilation?


I was watching WRGB but the program material was not HD and it was pixelating heavy. As soon as Hack came on at 9pm and the HD feed kicked in everything was fine. One time it pixelated very quickly. The District was also fine presentation. I definitly want to check out the game today at 3pm.

Originally posted by ThePrisoner
Thank you Tower Guy. Looks like I might just keep my TWC HD package along with my new set-up for local HD than. Why does WRGB pixel more than the others?

There's many causes of pixelization. Weak signal, multipath, excessive motion, and set top box problems are possibilities. Troubleshooting DTV problems is alot like fixing a computer, use the process of elimination. Both weak signals and multipath can be eliminated with an outdoor antenna, that's where I'd start. I have a Radio Shack U-100 that I installed 20 years ago. Even though it's a UHF only antenna, it gets NBC on channel 12 fine. The little brother to the U-100 is still available for $21.99. http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=15-2160
Radio Shack antennas with longer VHF elements tend to fall apart in the weather. The best source for antenna and preamp information is: http://www.starkelectronic.com
A caution about preamps, unless you're in a fringe area too much gain can cause problems with overload. As long as the output DBMV rating is the same, a cheaper preamp is usually better than an expensive preamp. Radio Shack preamps (line amps) have been known to cause problems with internal oscillation.

I just registered ALBANYHDTV.COM and hope to make it into a site where we can all exchange info about HDTV tips & tricks in the Albany, NY area.

TowerGuy:
Thanks for turning us on to Stark Electronics. Their products are definately a few notches above RadShack. Are their any retailers that are more local that carry those same manufacturers?
What symptons would a problem with "Internal Oscillation" cause?

Originally posted by AlbanyHDTV
I just registered ALBANYHDTV.COM and hope to make it into a site where we can all exchange info about HDTV tips & tricks in the Albany, NY area.

Your site has a nice appearance, good luck with it. If you want it to be useful for people, you may want to add a link to this forum. You may also want to copy-paste post #1 from this thread right onto your homepage. I would appreciate credit being given to myself and all of the "Insiders" on this thread that continuously provide the only up-to-date and accurate public source of information- for no reason other than love of the industry.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank those "Insiders" myself - Thanks for helping the DTV transition right here in the trenches of this thread.

-MasterFX1

Originally posted by MasterFX1
TowerGuy:
Thanks for turning us on to Stark Electronics. Their products are definately a few notches above RadShack. Are their any retailers that are more local that carry those same manufacturers?
What symptons would a problem with "Internal Oscillation" cause?

Internal Oscillation would cause interference to the channel where the oscillation occurs. In addition, the oscillation is transmitted by your receiving antenna, so the signal can also interfere with reception at other homes up to 1/4 mile away.

I noticed my SA3250HD box display was showing 12:00 this morning. It wouldn't power up so I unplugged it and plugged it back in to force a re-boot. Don't know if TWC had pushed an update down the pipe or what.

Which brings me to my question, when something like us happens due to a software upgrade or power outage, my "PICTURE FORMAT" setting always changes back from 'PASS THROUGH' to 'FIXED'. None of my other settings seem to do this upon a reboot. Am I missing something or does this happen to everyone? I like the pass through option because it automatically changes from 480i to 1080i when I change to an HDTV channel.

I have a SA3250HD and did not notice anything different this morning.

Has anyone else tried to hook up a DVI cable to the SA3250HD?

I'm picking up my DVI cable tomorrow. I'll post my results then.

Originally posted by MasterFX1
Your site has a nice appearance, good luck with it. If you want it to be useful for people, you may want to add a link to this forum. You may also want to copy-paste post #1 from this thread right onto your homepage. I would appreciate credit being given to myself and all of the "Insiders" on this thread that continuously provide the only up-to-date and accurate public source of information- for no reason other than love of the industry.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank those "Insiders" myself - Thanks for helping the DTV transition right here in the trenches of this thread.

-MasterFX1

...and I would like to thank MasterFX1 for starting Albany Schenectady Troy in the AVS Forum which seems quite popular recently.

We are alway near the top of the AVS Forum>HDTV>Local HDTV Info and Reception (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=45) thread at currently 401 replies and 13268 views. :cool:

Ya know...if it wasn't for this forum....I never be able to vent my fustration out on TWC and WRGB! :D

Can anybody recommend the best STB for the $$$ & antenna for the Guilderland area? I checked antennaweb.org and it recommends a Medium Directional antenna because of the 30' trees around me. I'd like to place the antenna in my full-size attic, if possible.

I have TWC, but want to get WRGB in HD for the Superbowl.

Originally posted by AlbanyHDTV
Can anybody recommend the best STB for the $$$ & antenna for the Guilderland area? I checked antennaweb.org and it recommends a Medium Directional antenna because of the 30' trees around me. I'd like to place the antenna in my full-size attic, if possible.

I have TWC, but want to get WRGB in HD for the Superbowl.

Radio Shack SKU 15-2160 $21.99. I found it last year at Mayfair Plaza in Glenville.

I use a Channel Master 4221 UHF antenna that I purchased from Stark Electronics.Since they are nearby, shipping only took a couple days and they had everything I needed to get my antenna up on the roof.There is also alot of good information on antennas in the hardware forum...

http://www.starkelectronic.com/allant.htm

Originally posted by lufters
Are you talking about Signal Pixilation or Picture Quality Pixilation?

I know I beat this to death but take a look at my post #332

Check out tomorrow's AFC Championship Game at 3:00 on WRGB-DT and you'll know what I'm talking about.

I receive both WRGB & WNYT about 55 miles south of Albany. Both have (had) been absolutely amazing. For about a week now, the picture from WRGB has been pixilating most of the time and frequently to the point of un-watchable. WNYT, from the same tower, has not been nearly as bad and most of the time no pixilation is visible. I was hoping that it was the referenced signal strength problem and that the picture would be stable for the play-off game this afternoon. That is not the case.

I've seen the commercials that WRGB is running promoting the Superbowl in HD. They make it sound easy... HD capable TV, receiver and antenna. They even say that you won't be able to see it from TWC. Showing the play-off games in HD from WRGB to friends and family is not going to increase their viewers for the Superbowl. The picture is rock solid from Cablevision.

Has anyone else, south of Albany, noticed a similar change in picture quality?
Could it just be the (cold?) weather. Could it be the difference between the VHF WNYT and the UHF WRGB signals? I've tried turning the antenna to no avail. It's a CM4228 (UHF only) antenna with a pre-amp and rotator.

I may not be giving up Cablevision for a while longer.

Hey guys, I'm in the Ballston Spa area and I'm looking for some input on what would be my best choice for an outdoor antenna. I checked the Antenna Web site, and all the locals appear in the "blue", which translated to the Medium Directional w/Pre-Amp for the proper antenna. Knowing that, what's a good, or great antenna, that would get the job done for me from your experience? Thanks for any help.

Jeff,

I feel the same way. I'm returning my Motorola STB and RCA 1250 antenna tomorrow at CC. I tried to watch the AFC game today on WRGB and I kept getting weak or no signal. I played with the antenna and it was good until 3sec later pixelating occured followed by a black screen. Last night I got a pretty good signal but alot of pixelating until true HD came on. During the Superbowl I can imagine myself getting up a dozen times fixing the antenna. I don't want WRGB that bad that I have to get a roof antenna. I'll keep TWC HD for ease. I want to tell WRGB that how many viewers do they really think have an HD STB with an antenna vs. how many HD customers have TWC in the capitol region.

Has anyone else, south of Albany, noticed a similar change in picture quality?
I'm not south of Albany but I have noticed a considerable amount of pixelation today during the playoff game and right now watching Cold Case on CBS. lock-ups/break-ups are so frequent you can't even view the shows.

I don't remember seeing the break-up(s) while watching Joan of Arcadia friday night, so its seems to be a recent disturbance for me.. Signal strength for me is 93-100 %...

I feel the same way. I'm returning my Motorola STB and RCA 1250 antenna tomorrow at CC. I tried to watch the AFC game today on WRGB and I kept getting weak or no signal.

Prisoner-

I wouldn't give up that easily, it definately seems like its an issue with WRGB and they just need to get the bugs worked out. I've watched weeks of CBS HDTV with no hiccups at all, concerning this weekend they sure picked a helluva time to have signal integrity problems...

Originally posted by BreakStuff





I wouldn't give up that easily, it definately seems like its an issue with WRGB and they just need to get the bugs worked out.


Last night during Hack & The District my picture was fine. Toady I turned the TV on at 3pm for the game on WRGB and got no signal/pixelation. I thought it was due to my antenna. If the signal was good last night why isn't it today. I moved the antenna around and nothing. Now I'm thinking of what you said, it wasn't my set-up but WRGB. I'm thinking everytime I watch something OTA I will have to move my antenna. Tell me this is not the case. Thanks!

Is anyone else watching CBS at 10:00 pm and seeing lots of problems? It is unwatchable, yet my signal strength is good. Is WRGB having problems?

I watched the 1st half of the PATS game heree at home and it looked great. Very few problems at all. Lufters - the only time I noticed pixel;ization was when they used that sideline camera and panned with it. It seems to me like it is some sort of digital camera they are using there that is not high enough in resolutions (as opossed to the older standard def cameras.) That is just a guess, but I wasn't seeing problems with the other cameras as they were panning, or as the players were running.

I took my Samsung 151 over to my dads house a mile away for the 2nd half and hooked it up to his samsung DLP set but had know luck at all. We could barely get a signal and it was mostly unwatchable, trying both of my antennas. Did anything change between halves, or was it just the location?

Anyway, thanks to all who have been helping me. I currently have the RS antenna hooked up upstairs and run on a coax line down to the basement with good results, except for the CBS problem.

Paul

LETS GO PATS!!!!!

Originally posted by Paul B. Musser
Is anyone else watching CBS at 10:00 pm and seeing lots of problems? It is unwatchable, yet my signal strength is good. Is WRGB having problems?

I watched the 1st half of the PATS game heree at home and it looked great. Very few problems at all. Lufters - the only time I noticed pixel;ization was when they used that sideline camera and panned with it. It seems to me like it is some sort of digital camera they are using there that is not high enough in resolutions (as opossed to the older standard def cameras.) That is just a guess, but I wasn't seeing problems with the other cameras as they were panning, or as the players were running.

I took my Samsung 151 over to my dads house a mile away for the 2nd half and hooked it up to his samsung DLP set but had know luck at all. We could barely get a signal and it was mostly unwatchable, trying both of my antennas. Did anything change between halves, or was it just the location?

Anyway, thanks to all who have been helping me. I currently have the RS antenna hooked up upstairs and run on a coax line down to the basement with good results, except for the CBS problem.

Paul

LETS GO PATS!!!!!

The picture pixilation wasn’t that bad today for the game (making a liar out of me)…it’s been awful for every NFL HD game I’ve seen on WRBG…maybe you couldn’t tell as much because of the snow…or maybe they are finally aware of the issue and working on it.

My signal was quite good for the first 3 quarters….but it seemed into the fourth quarter my signal kept dropping with video blips and audio dropouts.

On another note, what a joke with that “How to get the Super Bowl in HD” commercial from WRGB. Their basically telling people with TWC that since the OTA signal is free…to go out and spend $400-$500 on a STB and an antenna if you don’t have one…..What’s so free about that? :mad:

Originally posted by jeffbrad
I receive both WRGB & WNYT about 55 miles south of Albany. Both have (had) been absolutely amazing. For about a week now, the picture from WRGB has been pixilating most of the time and frequently to the point of un-watchable. WNYT, from the same tower, has not been nearly as bad and most of the time no pixilation is visible. I was hoping that it was the referenced signal strength problem and that the picture would be stable for the play-off game this afternoon. That is not the case.

I've seen the commercials that WRGB is running promoting the Superbowl in HD. They make it sound easy... HD capable TV, receiver and antenna. They even say that you won't be able to see it from TWC. Showing the play-off games in HD from WRGB to friends and family is not going to increase their viewers for the Superbowl. The picture is rock solid from Cablevision.

Has anyone else, south of Albany, noticed a similar change in picture quality?
Could it just be the (cold?) weather. Could it be the difference between the VHF WNYT and the UHF WRGB signals? I've tried turning the antenna to no avail. It's a CM4228 (UHF only) antenna with a pre-amp and rotator.

I may not be giving up Cablevision for a while longer.

Jeff, I also live in the Hudson Valley (Kingston) and had a terrible time with WRGB yesterday. Held up fine for the "Game", but during Cold Case Files, I had so much pixilation that it was unwatchable. Signal strength was on the high end of Good. Checked out WNYT and WMHT and they were fine. In fact, I rarely have a problem with WNYT, but I know it's VHF, but WMHT (UHF) is the best of them all as far as pixilation. WMHT had a show on about Hot Air Ballons in Albuquerque yesterday that was absolutly beautiful. I think it was the first show that my wife was impressed with and told me all my stuggles with HDTV "might" be worth it. I realize we are on the edge for OTA transmission at about 50 miles.... I have a Channel Master 4248 UHF and a Antennacraft 7-13 VHF antenna, with an amp about 8 feet above the roof on a 2 story house. Never put a rotor on and just kind of "estimated" the direction of the Albany tower. Sounds like the folks in the Albany Area were also having a problem, so doesn't seem to be a distance issue! Hopefully these problems are just "growing pains" and all will settle out in the near future.

The thing get me is when all is well on our end and the station doesn't "flip the switch" and you get the program in DT, as with L & O CI last night on WNYT. Both shows were broadcast in DT not HD!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by lufters
On another note, what a joke with that “How to get the Super Bowl in HD” commercial from WRGB. Their basically telling people with TWC that since the OTA signal is free…to go out and spend $400-$500 on a STB and an antenna if you don’t have one…..What’s so free about that? :mad:

I haven't yet seen this commercial, but if they're showing it, things must not be going so well with TWC negotiations. Maybe TWC will make a little 30 second commercial for channel 1806 showing a guy walking into Circuit City and having to fork over $400-$500 for OTA components to watch the "free" superbowl. :)

Originally posted by slayerav
I haven't yet seen this commercial, but if they're showing it, things must not be going so well with TWC negotiations. Maybe TWC will make a little 30 second commercial for channel 1806 showing a guy walking into Circuit City and having to fork over $400-$500 for OTA components to watch the "free" superbowl. :)

The WRGB commercial aired every other commercial break during the AFC championship game. CBS had their own HDTV commercial too, with Jim Nance talking about how great football in HDTV is. Looks like WRGB put their commercial on before/after CBS's in order to head off the phone calls and emails they might receive.

I sent an email this morning to WRGB stating my disgust over lack of a deal with TWC. No reply as of yet.

WRGB-DT is currently experienceing some severe difficulties. In fact as of this posting, the encoder appears to be frozen with a static image.

I did not see the game, but looked into if anything was wrong on their end... WRGB is aware of the problem and is working to fix it.

I agree, what a horrible moment to experience technical frustrations. On the brighter side, maybe work being done now will better insure against problems during the Superbowl or Grammys.

As far as OTA being Free... it is. I don't understand why you chose to buy a TV without a tuner.

You can get a brand new Samsung SIR-T151 OTA-HD Receiver for $299.

http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php/masterid=691699/search=samsung%2520151/ut=d8eeb1f4ca833b60

Originally posted by slayerav
I haven't yet seen this commercial, but if they're showing it, things must not be going so well with TWC negotiations. Maybe TWC will make a little 30 second commercial for channel 1806 showing a guy walking into Circuit City and having to fork over $400-$500 for OTA components to watch the "free" superbowl. :)

HEHE! :D

Originally posted by MasterFX1
As far as OTA being Free... it is. I don't understand why you chose to buy a TV without a tuner.

The reason why I didn't buy my TV (Mitsubishi 65411) with a tuner back in OCT. 2002 is because it wouldn't make economical sense. I would have had to buy the next model up from what I have to get a integrated tuner which was basically the same TV but an extra $1000+ at the time. So why spend that extra money for a TV w/HD tuner when I'm getting one from TWC??

Who knew TWC and our locals were going to have a major issue with each other when a lot of the country were getting their locals from TWC with no problem. This is why I'm so ticked off.

Originally posted by lufters

Who new TWC and our locals were going to have a major issue with each other when a lot of the country were getting their locals from TWC with no problem.

I feel the same exact way. I bought my Mitsubishi WT-46805 in 2000, the price was a whopping $3000 and the Mitsubishi STB was $1500. How come local channels agreed with TWC in other areas. How many people does WRGB think will run out and buy a STB and antenna for there roof top in this area just for the Superbowl. I really don't blame TWC but do blame WRGB.

Sounds like sour grapes from being an early adopter... 2000? That was 4 years ago. If a new HD-OTA receiver costs you $300 and lasts you 3 years... it's $8.33/mo. A lot cheaper than being forced to subscribe to TWC's digital service (not to mention an impending HD tier hike)

Here's a link about other CBS affiliates... specifically an Emmis owned CBS versus COX cable. WRGB is owned by Freedom.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=348646

It has nothing to do with me being an early adopter. I'm a audiophile & videophile and I know technologies change but what does bother me is that we are in 2004 and we have to play with antennas to get HD. I thought those years were behind us.

WTEN seems to have no problem.

Sounds like sour grapes from being an early adopter

I bought my Mits 55411 about six months ago. I was also told that I wouldn't need a STB if I was using TWC. I only had to go across the street and pick up the free 3100. Since I already had Cable and Broadband service I opted for the digital package which basically threw in a premium package for free. I fully expected to see all the local HDTV local content on TWC. I also put the blame on WRGB. I won't go out and buy a STB and antenna just to recieve WRGB...it just aint gonna happen.

Many years ago I had to put up with an antenna to receive OTA TV and was never happier when cable came along. I still have an antenna on my roof for my ham radio gear and I'm still putting up with frozen rotators in the winter. It's unfortunate there's no such thing as cable 2,6,40,75 and 80 meter reception for us hams :p

Just my 2 cents worth.

Wordz

If NBC had the Superbowl, we would still be in the exact same predicament. If you read the thread I just posted about Emmis, you'll see the real story.

Originally posted by ThePrisoner
WTEN seems to have no problem.

...Yet. See the post about Emmis.

Originally posted by ThePrisoner
I thought those years were behind us.

It strikes me as odd, that the public, for the most part, is OK with their phone service transitioning to wireless (where reception is good) but the TV, which for most used to be wireless, should stay "Wired" to the pole.

Let us review the 3 biggest reasons that stations have with cable regarding retransmission of HDTV signals:

1. Fees - Notice TWC has yet to come up with ESPN-HD either, yet DirecTV, DISH and many other cable systems have it. Look, if your grocer stopped paying his food distributor and then he told you, "We'll sell groceries when we get them," not telling you that he owes his supplier money... You would scratch your head in amazement and find a new grocer. What sucks is that TWC is the only cable outfit in town with HDTV ability.

2. Bandwidth Integrity - Anyone claiming to be a videophile should demand this. Do you really want to accept whatever water-downed resolution TWC delivers? Already, 720p content is upconverted for you. Sure, you can change your box's output to 720p, but now you are upconverting and then downconverting, only adding to the possibilities for problems. Plus, the cable company could decide that a particular station is using too much of their cable-bandwidth capacity and compress them further.

3. Sub-Channels - So "Cable" is a multi-programming distributor that dabbles in content (like Capital News 9). But if a content producer (such as WRGB or WNYT) wants to multicast, TWC wants to reserve the right to strip it out of the signal. Should WRGB or WNYT offer 24-hour news on a sub-channel, it would directly compete with their own content product. Thus they would likely choose to strip it out.

Reasons 2 and 3 are tightly related, often referred to as "Full Data Stream or No Data Stream." As in, cable: take it all, or leave it. So far, TWC is leaving it.

Yes, the Superbowl and Grammys are getting people quite worked up and emotional. But consider the big picture, year after year. The precedents are being fought now, not later.

Free OTA HDTV ?? How silly!..

Well let me see..I been watching over the air HDTV since September and I still have YET to receive a monthly bill from any of the local affliates broadcasting in HDTV..

Sounds like free to me! :)

I always thought the point of having cable was to provide local signals to people that have difficulty receiving them OTA. Once that reason for being is satisfied, then the cable company can sell whatever it needs or wants to be profitable.

If the municipalities that grant franchises had the b__ls to demand that the cable company provide all the signals, we would have a lot less to complain about.

iI understand that we are still in the infancy stages of HDTV in the Albany area. I have no doubt that eventually (months or years) we will be able to pay extra to get local HD channels on TWC as well as ESPN, HBO and many others. This is only the frustrating beginning.
What really bothers me is that WRGB is now marketing OTA HD and telling us to go get a box (which I did) when they don't have it working well yet. Since I hooked upo last week, WRGB has given me nothing but headaches. I am planning on having 10-20 friends over for the Superbowl so they cn watch it in HD on an 8' screen. If it looks like crap, I'm going to feel like a jerk. I can just here one of the wives "Our 27 inch Sony doesn't do this....."

It's to bad they wouldn't just selll rights for the game (like the Masters) to TWC, but considering their recent commercials, that seems unlikely.

I hope WRGB can pulls it together.


Paul
LETS GO PATS!!!!!

Originally posted by MasterFX1
It strikes me as odd, that the public, for the most part, is OK with their phone service transitioning to wireless (where reception is good) but the TV, which for most used to be wireless, should stay "Wired" to the pole.

Talking about comparing Apples and Oranges.....

Why would I want to carry my 65" TV, Yamaha Receiver, 2 sub-woofers, and 6 speakers around with me where ever I go?? :p

Maybe I should buy a Truck so I can give it a try...since I'm not "Wired" to the pole.

Where did the idea come from that local HDTV would be available via TWC?

I don't see where WRGB is obligated to just "hand" over their HD signal to TWC... If WRGB paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for the equipment alone, I can expect they will want something in return from TWC for broadcasting the same signal.. TWC already has the SD signal, if they want to show off the pretty picture then they have to agree to WRGB's terms to broadcast it..simple.

Does WRGB HD need TWC?

WRGB's marketing idea does work,I used to never watch CBS, now I'm a regular viewer..(PBS too!)

I havent been a TWC customer since the late 80's (not including RR) and I don't see myself signing up anytime soon in the near future..
I was interested in their HDTV offerings this summer,however I was not going to pay $51.00+ for HD ABC and a basic package..In fact, if they included all the locals at the same price today, I would still tell them to get bent and I'll buy my own equipment and get the available local HD for free..simple again..

Why would I want to carry my 65" TV, Yamaha Receiver, 2 sub-woofers, and 6 speakers around with me where ever I go??
I think that MasterFX1 was responding to Prisoners reply about having to mess around with with antenna elements to receive a quality signal..

You guys crack me up..

You can spend thousands of dollars for high resolution displays,the best dolby digital surroundsound system,luxurious seating arrangements,popcorn machines,etc and you do everything that you can do to impress your friends and family..

But,

You can settle for a set of $29.99 RatShack rabbit ear antenna to receive the HDTV signal and expect it to be exceptional...Thats some funny stuff! :)

Originally posted by BreakStuff
Where did the idea come from that local HDTV would be available via TWC?




AVS Forum (http://www.avsforum.com) I think you might have heard of it.

You can settle for a $29.99 RatShack rabbit ear antenna to receive the HDTV signal and expect it to be exceptional...Thats some funny stuff!
Try some aluminum foil!

I think I seen that work on a Honeymooners episode!

Sorry..I'll shutup now.. :p

Originally posted by BreakStuff
I think that MasterFX1 was responding to Prisoners reply about having to mess around with with antenna elements to receive a quality signal..

You guys crack me up..

You can spend thousands of dollars for high resolution displays,the best dolby digital surroundsound system,luxurious seating arrangements,popcorn machines,etc and you do everything that you can do to impress your friends and family..

But,

You can settle for a $29.99 RatShack rabbit ear antenna to receive the HDTV signal and expect it to be exceptional...Thats some funny stuff! :)

It's actually the whole point of the matter...I shouldn't have to go out and buy a "$29.99 Antenna" and have to worry about receiving a signal when I'm paying out of my A#% for cable (my choice). When two companies that make money from offering a service to "Us" customers can't get their freaking act together you wonder why people tend to get upset. I personally could care less about TWC or WRGB...I just want things right...as with most people in the area in our position.

If people like "US" didn't watch TV, people like "Them" wouldn't make any money...hence not need to exist. So they should try at all costs to keep "Us" happy. The gov't really needs to step in sooner than later to clean this debacle up.


By the way...even though I have a lot of family and friends....I only want to impress three people............Me, Myself, and I. :D....and if the family and friends are impressed along the way...so be it!:cool:

"You can settle for a set of $29.99 RatShack rabbit ear antenna to receive the HDTV signal and expect it to be exceptional...Thats some funny stuff! "
Breakstuff.


If buying an EXPENSIVE antenna would fix the WRGB problem, so that I could get FREE WRGB, I would do it. But as far as I can tell, that is not the case.

Paul

If you post your exact address, users monitoring this thread that have topographical software may help you with your antenna problems.

Breakstuff: Amen.

Originally posted by AlbanyHDTV
I have a SA3250HD and did not notice anything different this morning.

Has anyone else tried to hook up a DVI cable to the SA3250HD?

I got my DVI cable and hooked it up last night (3250HD on one end, Sony Grand Wega LCD on other).

From what I could tell after flipping channels for 20 minutes, the DVI input is on par with component outputs for SD channels, but a hair better on HD channels.

The one nice thing is that I don't have to fiddle with anything for it to change output modes (I guess the DVI mode always outputs the native resolution), and since my TV remembers the stretch mode I want, I don't have to touch anything but the channel up/down.

It is somewhat difficult to directly compare component and DVI output because the STB turns off the component output when the DVI cable is plugging in.

masterfx1,
Have you had problems with WRGB in the last couple of days or has it been good?

thanks,

Paul

I had a terrible time with WRGB on Sunday, but watched CSI-Miami last night and the signal was fine in Kingston. Saw 2 or 3 blocks of pixalation once or twice. Sunday evening there was so much pixalation it was unwatchable....

WRGB-DT is having a problem with how they physically transmit their signal from the station in Niskayuna to the Tower in the Helderbergs. The problem has to do with moisture and freezing temperatures. The signal seems to be doing OK as of right now, but Engineers at WRGB know what is causing these intermittent problems and are attempting to prevent it from happening further.

Paul: My signal strength has remained good, but I have seen some of the "Break Ups." FYI, if you have great signal strength, but bad picture... the problem is probably not on your end.

Last night I had great signal strength and Everyone Loves Raymond & CSI:Miami looked great with little breakup in one spot. Today I see heavy breakup on WRGB DT & PBS DT. Signal strength is strong but when heavy break up comes the signal strength goes down than right back to strong.

Originally posted by ThePrisoner
Last night I had great signal strength and Everyone Loves Raymond & CSI:Miami looked great with little breakup in one spot. Today I see heavy breakup on WRGB DT & PBS DT. Signal strength is strong but when heavy break up comes the signal strength goes down than right back to strong.

Those are common problems with indoor antennas.

This just in... The Daytona 500 will be in HD on WNYT.

The 46th annual Daytona 500 will be the first NASCAR race to be covered in HDTV. Details are still slim at this time, but HD coverage was confirmed directly to AVS, by NBC earlier today.

Last years Daytona 500 drew its highest ratings ever for start-to-finish coverage and was the most-watched auto race since 1984. NBC's telecast, its first airing of the race under a six-year deal with NASCAR, drew a 10.9 rating Sunday with a 26 share, a jump of 9 percent from the 10.0 rating for the 2002 Daytona 500 broadcast on Fox.

HD coverage will begin 12pm ET, Sunday February 15, 2004 on WNYT-DT.


WOW: Superbowl Sunday, Grammy Sunday and the Daytona500 Sunday... it's like the best consecutive 3 HD Sundays ever.

I see that WMHT has switched from 17-3 and 17-4 to 17-1 and 17-3. At the moment, 17-1 is Nova in standard def while 17-3 is the same program in HD. Some receivers may need to be put in the search mode to work properly.

The President's State of the Union Address is on in HD on ABC WTEN (1810 TWC), CBS WRGB-DT, NBC WNYT-DT and EDTV on Fox WXXA (1808 TWC).

Excellent way to compare the different formats...480P to 720P and 1080i. (Even though I have everything being upconverted to 1080i)

I'm now trying to compare WRGB-DT and WNYT-DT since WRGB-DT doesn't use as much bandwidth because of the use of sub-channels.

WNYT-DT is a tad clearer....but not much.

The Daytona 500 will be in HD on WNYT.
This will be an interesting test for NBC..

I was actually questioning when NASCAR would attempt a HD broadcast last summer while watching a race. A few moments later I realized that this might be a bad idea due to the amount of camera's used during a typical NASCAR event..

It wasn't a complete success for the Breeders Cup last November and sometimes it got annoying when the camera's were switching back and forth between SD and HD..they might have HD camera's at Daytona but my guess is that most of the content will be standard definition..

but I guess any HD content is better than none at all...

Originally posted by lufters
WNYT-DT is a tad clearer....but not much.

I noticed WNYT being a little clearer also. How was your WRGB-DT signal this afternoon? Mine wasn't great but it got better around 7pm. Navy CIS was good but I had some pixelation and audio being out-of sync.

Re: State of the Union

I thought that WRGB-DT actually had more detail, but WNYT-DT's chroma was a tad hotter. I preferred NBC's graphic treatment to CBS'.


Re: WMHT's channel mapping changes

I too noticed the change, I had to perform a new channel search to get rid of the 17-4. DirecTV's data stream incorrectly provides 17-1 program information as the digital sub-channel for kids on TWC .

Anybody try to watch American Idol the past two nights on 1808 TWC?
Back to the squeezed-narrower than 4:3 format; totally unwatchable. Any idea what the deal is? They had their act together for the NFL games last weekend.

Originally posted by ThePrisoner
I noticed WNYT being a little clearer also. How was your WRGB-DT signal this afternoon? Mine wasn't great but it got better around 7pm. Navy CIS was good but I had some pixelation and audio being out-of sync.

WRGB-DT signal has been better since Sunday.

I just turned it on tonight so I couldn't tell you about the signal this afternoon.

Originally posted by MasterFX1
As far as OTA being Free... it is. I don't understand why you chose to buy a TV without a tuner. This is answered in the AVS FORUM HDTV FAQ posted here. (http://www.avsforum.com/hdtvfaq/HDTV-FAQ.htm#If%20I%20buy%20an%20HDTV-ready%20set%20today,%20will%20it%20be%20obsolete%20tomorrow? )

If I buy an HDTV-ready set today, will it be obsolete tomorrow?

That depends on whether you buy an "all-in-one" integrated DTV set, where the tuner is part of the set. There's a remote possibility that the modulation standards for broadcasting 8VSB DTV over cable systems may still change. And, of course, cable TV system operators such as Time Warner use the QAM standard for DTV.

The DTV picture transmission formats (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i) are NOT likely to change, however. The smartest thing to do would be to buy a separate TV and set-top DTV tuner. This way, the most you'd have to do in the future is to switch to a new set-top box, and not replace your entire DTV set.

[i]The smartest thing to do would be to buy a separate TV and set-top DTV tuner. This way, the most you'd have to do in the future is to switch to a new set-top box, and not replace your entire DTV set. [/B]

My Zenith has a built in tuner as well as inputs for an external set-top box. That's also true for the Sony and Mistsubishi integrated sets. Is there an integrated set without an external input? That would cover you in the unlikely event of a format change.

Some displays have a single HD input which limits you to only one set top box. (cable or OTA) An external DVI or Y,Pr,Pb switch box is almost as expensive as a tuner and more combersome than an integrated set. Only a few surround sound systems have HD source selectors.

Beginning in mid 2004 the FCC required built in tuner phase-in kicks in.

Originally posted by AlbanyHDTV
This is answered in the AVS FORUM HDTV FAQ posted here. (http://www.avsforum.com/hdtvfaq/HDTV-FAQ.htm#If%20I%20buy%20an%20HDTV-ready%20set%20today,%20will%20it%20be%20obsolete%20tomorrow? )

If I buy an HDTV-ready set today, will it be obsolete tomorrow?

That depends on whether you buy an "all-in-one" integrated DTV set, where the tuner is part of the set. There's a remote possibility that the modulation standards for broadcasting 8VSB DTV over cable systems may still change. And, of course, cable TV system operators such as Time Warner use the QAM standard for DTV.

The DTV picture transmission formats (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i) are NOT likely to change, however. The smartest thing to do would be to buy a separate TV and set-top DTV tuner. This way, the most you'd have to do in the future is to switch to a new set-top box, and not replace your entire DTV set.

Very True!

I don't think I would lose too much sleep on the fact that your integrated television may become obsolete in the future..

If the broadcasting standard was going to change its not going to happen soon and its not going to happen overnight..

When and If the time comes, your integrated television would be outdated and plasma/lcd technology will be affordable and mainstream.. We'll all have beautiful flat panel displays and you'll want to throw the big bulky integrated tv set in the kids bedroom or give it away to charity! :p

My next HDTV will have an integrated tuner along with DVI, hopefully by than they will have a multi-input DVI TV. Can anyone here that uses DVI see a difference? I have heard that a DVD player with DVI out is sweet but never heard anyone mention watching HD with DVI.

Originally posted by ThePrisoner
My next HDTV will have an integrated tuner along with DVI, hopefully by than they will have a multi-input DVI TV. Can anyone here that uses DVI see a difference? I have heard that a DVD player with DVI out is sweet but never heard anyone mention watching HD with DVI. I have a Monster Cable DVI cord running from TWC's 3250HD box to my HDTV. Without being able to compare the the DVI vs. Y,Pr,Pb side-by-side, I can't see a noticeable improvement.

However, what the DVI connection does do is free up one of my two Y,Pr,Pb HD inputs so I can connect my DVD player and the OTA STB.

AlbanyHDTV: Why does the crawl on your homepage exclude WNYT in you call for people to e-mail their frustrations?

Originally posted by MasterFX1
AlbanyHDTV: Why does the crawl on your homepage exclude WNYT in you call for people to e-mail their frustrations?

Maybe because WRGB will be showing (in HD) the most watched TV show of the year called the Super Bowl in about a week and a half.

It may or may not be a big deal to some people....but I think WRGB made it a big deal with their "How to get the Super in HD" commercials....trying their best at damage control.

But I agree with you... might as well throw WNYT (and WHMT) in there also.

I'm curious if WRGB's advertisers were made aware that their paid for ads were not available to TWC HD viewers but are on the other local stations (with a couple of exceptions) if they might prefer to put their advertising $$$ somewhere else? Just a thought.

Time Warner Cable responded to the recent commercials on WRGB with the following statement posted on their website:

HDTV: Status with WRGB
To our HDTV Customers:

Recently you may have seen that WRGB is suggesting that our HDTV customers purchase hundreds of dollars worth of antenna and other equipment in order to get WRGB's HDTV signal. Such a suggestion is odd, especially because the overwhelming majority of WRGB viewers watch the station on Time Warner Cable.

Please know in the case of WRGB there is an agreement in place that would allow the station to deliver its HD signal to us. That agreement was negotiated by Time Warner Cable and CBS for use by all CBS affiliates in the country. In fact, operating with the understanding that WRGB would be delivering us its signal under this agreement, we dedicated a channel (1806) some time ago for the purpose of receiving its signal.

Despite that, WRGB has refused to provide us with its signal. In addition to suggesting that you pay for extra equipment, WRGB is now demanding that we compensate them for this over-the-air signal. Such demands are unreasonable and negatively impact our customers. We currently carry the HD signals of other local broadcasters such as WTEN and WXXA and will soon be carrying WMHT. In taking the tact that it has, WRGB is simply diverting attention away from the fact that it is solely responsible for its HD signal not being on our system and for the apparent and unfortunate likelihood that it will not be on the system for this year's Super Bowl.

We regret WRGB's decision and share your frustration. We appreciate your loyalty and support.

This text can be seen on the Albany Time Warner website here. (http://www.twalbany.com/digitalentertainment/hdtv_wrgb.php)

The bottom line is TWC is attempting to get something for free that they will then use as a carrot to get subscribers to upgrade to the more costly TWC-Digital and the forthcoming HD Tier. It would take less than a half year to recoup the costs of a tuner with the money you'll save not paying TWC each month. Strangely, no one really seems to care that WNYT-DT is more or less in the same boat, despite having the Daytona500 in HD, it's not the Superbowl, but it is the 2nd most popular televised-live event of the year.

If WRGB offered to buy you a OTA-HD receiver and antenna, would you be willing to commit to a 2 year - $14/Mo rental fee? OK, forget WRGB, I'll make the offer... If you sign with me, MasterFX1, at $14 a month for atleast two years, I'll buy you a tuner and antenna. And every month you stay subscribed with me beyond the first 24 months will be pure profit for me.

Also, OTA is as uncompressed and native as you can get. TWC only adds links to the chain, and non-1080i material is automatically upconverted.

So you want to watch the big game on CBS in HDTV but its only going to be broadcast OTA and not by the local cable company, well your not alone

Other markets in the same situation... (as of Dec 2003)

Alberquerque,NM
Amarillo,TX
Dallas,TX
Bakersfield,CA
Boise,ID
Baton Rouge,LA
Birmingham,AL
Cedar Rapids,IA
Dayton,OH
Fort Worth,TX
Madison,WI
Miami,FLA
Portland,OR
Providence,RI
Reno,NV
Roanoke,VA
Sacremento,CA
Salt Lake City,UT
Santa Monica,CA
Savanah,GA
Seattle,WA
St Louis,MO
Topeka,KS
Tulsa,OK

Wow. Impressive list.

Originally posted by MasterFX1
AlbanyHDTV: Why does the crawl on your homepage exclude WNYT in you call for people to e-mail their frustrations? Originally posted by lufters
I agree with you... might as well throw WNYT (and WHMT) in there also. As per both your comments, I have added WNYT and WMHT to the scroll. I was happy to see in the TWC statement that they will be adding WMHT shortly to the HD channels.

I put the crawl up on my website because I thought WRGB's "Superbowl in HDTV for FREE" commercial was ridiculus. Most people have 12:00 flashing on their VCR's and can't record an outgoing message on their answering machine without help, but WRGB suggests you "only" have to hook up a STB and an antenna to your HDTV ready TV to get WRGB (and the Superbowl) in HD. They didn't mention the $400+/- cost of the additional equipment to get their HD feed for "free". That's asking a lot from people for something that can easily be delivered to them through their existing subscription to TWC.

As an interesting side note, I received a negative email from WRGB's Fred Lass this afternoon. I won't discuss it's contents because he asked that I not post it publicly on the internet.

However, what it does prove is that the local television station operators/managers are lurking in this forum and on my website. (http://www.albanyhdtv.com) They are reading our comments and probably discussing it with their co-workers.

Keep the information coming. I know I appreciate it.

MasterFX1, Tower Guy:

Antennaweb.org recommends that I use a medium directional antenna for my area. Everything is red coded. Lowes has a Channel Master 3020 for $100. Would this work in my half attic (large crawl-spaces) of my house? Would this put my indoor antenna (RCA 1250) to shame? How about a Radio Shack antenna? Thanks

However, what it does prove is that the local television station operators/managers are lurking in this forum
Hi Fred,

I could give a hoot about the Superbowl in HDTV, however, could you allocate the most bandwidth possible for the Final Four NCAA Mens B-Ball Tourney in April, that would be great!

Thanks for listening,
BreakStuff :)

Originally posted by MasterFX1
The bottom line is TWC is attempting to get something for free that they will then use as a carrot to get subscribers to upgrade to the more costly TWC-Digital and the forthcoming HD Tier. It would take less than a half year to recoup the costs of a tuner with the money you'll save not paying TWC each month. Strangely, no one really seems to care that WNYT-DT is more or less in the same boat, despite having the Daytona500 in HD, it's not the Superbowl, but it is the 2nd most popular televised-live event of the year.

If WRGB offered to buy you a OTA-HD receiver and antenna, would you be willing to commit to a 2 year - $14/Mo rental fee? OK, forget WRGB, I'll make the offer... If you sign with me, MasterFX1, at $14 a month for atleast two years, I'll buy you a tuner and antenna. And every month you stay subscribed with me beyond the first 24 months will be pure profit for me.

Also, OTA is as uncompressed and native as you can get. TWC only adds links to the chain, and non-1080i material is automatically upconverted.

That makes sense...I'm going to pay $14 a month for at least 2 years for maybe 2 stations, when eventually they'll be on TWC sooner than later anyway. (FCC involvement?)

"OTA is as uncompressed and native as you can get"...that makes sense too.....I wonder what WRGB's real bandwidth is on 6-1 (HD channel) since they split their signal into 2 channels (looks like it will be 3 channels eventually). Most of the HD NFL games I’ve watched on WRGB-DT this season looked like crap because of the lack of full bandwidth given to 6-1. By this, they’re basically saying we don’t care too much about our HD viewers. They’d rather send out a half-As#ed HD signal so they can maybe make a little bit more revenue….Pleeeasse. :p
If they'd allocate more bandwidth during sporting events, I think everyone would be much happier.

Anyway you look at it, it's WRGB's fault for holding out…..their “Damage Control Commercials” just don't cut it….trying to fool the misinformed poor HDTV owners out there into spending hundreds of dollars on a STB and an Antenna to get the Super Bowl in HD...when most of them already have cable…PLEEASSSE! :o

Originally posted by AlbanyHDTV
As per both your comments, I have added WNYT and WMHT to the scroll. I was happy to see in the TWC statement that they will be adding WMHT shortly to the HD channels.

I put the crawl up on my website because I thought WRGB's "Superbowl in HDTV for FREE" commercial was ridiculus. Most people have 12:00 flashing on their VCR's and can't record an outgoing message on their answering machine without help, but WRGB suggests you "only" have to hook up a STB and an antenna to your HDTV ready TV to get WRGB (and the Superbowl) in HD. They didn't mention the $400+/- cost of the additional equipment to get their HD feed for "free". That's asking a lot from people for something that can easily be delivered to them through their existing subscription to TWC.

As an interesting side note, I received a negative email from WRGB's Fred Lass this afternoon. I won't discuss it's contents because he asked that I not post it publicly on the internet.

However, what it does prove is that the local television station operators/managers are lurking in this forum and on my website. (http://www.albanyhdtv.com) They are reading our comments and probably discussing it with their co-workers.

Keep the information coming. I know I appreciate it.

They've been reading this thread for quite a while now. We might have been hearing from some of those "managers/engineers/co-workers" right here on this board....Hmmmm.....I wonder. :p

So to all of the TWC and WRGB people....get your Heads out of your A@#es and get a contract signed. The SUPER BOWL is FEB 1ST.!! CHOP CHOP!! :D

Originally posted by lufters
for maybe 2 stations

I wonder what WRGB's real bandwidth is on 6-1

trying to fool the misinformed poor HDTV owners out there into spending hundreds of dollars on a STB and an Antenna

Already 3, weeks away from 5 stations, the most popular ones in the country I believe. CBS, NBC, ABC, WB, PBS. More than 50% of all TV viewing is on these networks.

Whatever the bandwidth assigned to 6-1, it will only get worse adding more links to the chain (TWC).

TWC is trying to "Pull the Wool over people's eyes" and sucker you into a commitment of nearly a $1000 per year. My DirecTV/OTA setup gives me way more HD than TWC and costs way less. And the rumors are running rampant that this will be a breakout Summer for DirecTV and HD.

6-1 has just made upgrades to their encoding process, compression related artifacts should be less apparent.

All the stations will continually upgrade and optimize over time. Costs keep coming down and technology keeps getting better. PQ will improve over the years on all DTV stations.

BTW, I see breakup even on full-bandwidth programming like WNYT-DT and HDnet, so there is no perfect encoding system yet. An HD infastructure can be upto 1.5GB of Bandwidth, yet the maximum bandwidth a station may broadcast is 19.4MB. Eventually compression technology will make the difference unnoticable to the human eye, but it will take time. Mark Cuban (Owner of HDnet) fought long and hard with DirecTV to guarantee that he would get 19+MB devoted to his channel. I still see breakup during fast sports plays and camera moves.

Originally posted by MasterFX1
Already 3, weeks away from 5 stations, the most popular ones in the country I believe. CBS, NBC, ABC, WB, PBS. More than 50% of all TV viewing is on these networks.

Whatever the bandwidth assigned to 6-1, it will only get worse adding more links to the chain (TWC).

TWC is trying to "Pull the Wool over people's eyes" and sucker you into a commitment of nearly a $1000 per year. My DirecTV/OTA setup gives me way more HD than TWC and costs way less. And the rumors are running rampant that this will be a breakout Summer for DirecTV and HD.

I agree with you....Like I stated on a previous post, I plan on going with DirecTV sometime this year. :cool:

Originally posted by MasterFX1
6-1 has just made upgrades to their encoding process, compression related artifacts should be less apparent.

All the stations will continually upgrade and optimize over time. Costs keep coming down and technology keeps getting better. PQ will improve over the years on all DTV stations.

BTW, I see breakup even on full-bandwidth programming like WNYT-DT and HDnet, so there is no perfect encoding system yet. An HD infastructure can be upto 1.5GB of Bandwidth, yet the maximum bandwidth a station may broadcast is 19.4MB. Eventually compression technology will make the difference unnoticable to the human eye, but it will take time. Mark Cuban (Owner of HDnet) fought long and hard with DirecTV to guarantee that he would get 19+MB devoted to his channel. I still see breakup during fast sports plays and camera moves.

Very true....I think I noticed the difference on last Sunday's AFC Championship game. I guess you have to take what you can get with new technology.


On another note, I would like to make it clear to everyone reading this board that my constant complaining to WRGB and TWC is not toward the hard working engineers, co-workers, etc of those company's. I've e-mailed and spoken with some who have been very friendly and courteous when answering questions pertaining to HDTV.

My complaining is toward the desision/policy makers only!

I'm just looking out for the best interests of "Us" HDTV users in our area. :cool:

Just some random thoughts:

First, I do find it very frustrating that WRGB is being so resistant to TWC in regards to their HDTV. I guess I wouldn't be so upset if their stupid OTA would actually work. The "good" shows that are in the highest resolution (CSI, Cold Case) have had MAJOR pixelation issues to the point that they have been unwatchable the past few weeks. I will say that I've never had that problem with TWC. Not to mention the $250 for an HDTV Tuner, $50 for an indoor antenna (will have to spend about $100 for a good outdoor omnidirectional when it warms up).

In regards to DISH and DTV having "more" HD content that TWC, it's probably a wash, to tell you the truth. DISH wanted (don't know if they still do) $80 for an upgraded module for the DISH 6000 unit AND $12/month to get Discovery HD. I'm pretty sure they also charge extra for ESPN-HD and HDNET. (actually just checked and yes, it's $10/month to get ESPN-HD, HDNET, DHD and HDNET Movies) In theory, if TWC adds HDNET and HDNET Movies, they'll probably have about the same content. I do believe that DTV is now starting to charge extra for their HDTV content as well.

I'm also a bit peeved by WRGB and WNYT making it sound like it's totally TWC fault for not carrying their HD Signal. Of course, TWC not responding to the "price" issue about HDTV channels is disappointing too.

I will admit I totally fell off my chair tonight when I see a TWC TV commercial stating how they revitalize HDTV's. What? Yeah right. To tell you the truth, the ONLY thing that revitalizes them is VOOM! (but extremely pricey). You have to admit that like 40 channels of HDTV is the most you'll find right now. I hardly call 5 HDTV channels "revitalizing" HDTV. Even if I sub to DISH or DTV I'm going to get maybe 10 channels AND I will have to pay extra for them (although apparently we will be paying extra to TWC soon as well).

Maybe a customer backlash will fix things, but I highly doubt it. Everyone knows that if you go out and spent $2000-3000 for an HDTV unit you probably can and will pay extra for the HDTV content. Not that I like doing that mind you.

Of course I originally got my setup for DVD's mainly because I'm sick and tired of going to the movie theater, spending $10/ticket and having someone either blab on their cell phone or bring a baby/infant/toddler into the movie so they can talk or cry throughout the show.

Originally posted by ThePrisoner
Antennaweb.org recommends that I use a medium directional antenna for my area. Everything is red coded. Lowes has a Channel Master 3020 for $100. Would this work in my half attic (large crawl-spaces) of my house? Would this put my indoor antenna (RCA 1250) to shame? How about a Radio Shack antenna? Thanks

I am not personally familiar with antenna brands and models. That being said, an outdoor antenna is your safest and best bet. It would certainly put all your other options to shame. If Lowes has a no questions return policy and your OK with bringing it back, give it a try.

Prisoner,

I bit the bullet and ordered a Channel Master 5646 UHF/VHF/FM from StarkElectronic.com It costs $30 + $15 ups from Worcester and arrived 24 hours after I ordered it. I installed it in my attic today with a 75 Ohm coax down to the basement. I live 14 miles from from the tower and now (at least tonight ) am getting perfect reception of WRGB, WNYT and WMHT on my Samsung. I was having lots of problems with my RS powered antenna and the Zenith Silver Sensor. Those are going back.

Thanks to all who have helped....

Paul

MasterFX1

I picked up a Radio Shack outdoor antenna cat# 15-2152. I put in my attic space, when it gets warm I will put it outdoors. It seems to be working way better than my indoor powered antenna. Is there such a thing as perfect OTA HD without some signal breakup (pixelation breakups, sound drop outs)?

Paul,

I see a difference with mine also. WRGB is rock solid now. I got very little breakup with WMHT, it corrected itself very quick. I live 10.5 miles from the towers according to antennaweb.org. This past week was hell for me, nothing was solid at all. I don't watch alot of WNYT. My RCA 1250 is going back tomorrow.

Seems like we got some people making HD hardware purchases to improve their viewing pleasures..

My turn..

I was in Sears today and scored a Samsung TXN 3071 (30 inch direct view widescreen) for $699.00, thats $300 dollars off regular price!

Anyway, it was returned from another customer that wasn't happy with it.. its not perfect (yet), but I am currently working on that.. :)

Originally posted by BreakStuff
Seems like we got some people making HD hardware purchases to improve their viewing pleasures..

My turn..

I was in Sears today and scored a Samsung TXN 3071 (30 inch direct view widescreen) for $699.00, thats $300 dollars off regular price!

Anyway, it was returned from another customer that wasn't happy with it.. its not perfect (yet), but I am currently working on that.. :)

Good price!

I think you're gonna like your set. Over the holidays I got the 26" Samsung WS HDTV for $539(!) and have been having an excellent time.

Regularly priced $799. Goes on sale pretty often for $699. Black Friday sale of $599 and then another 10% off on their Saturday morning sales around Christmas.

Great HD set for someone on a budget with a moderate living space.

Now if only we could get TWC to carry more HDTV programming. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Paul B. Musser
I bit the bullet and ordered a Channel Master 5646 UHF/VHF/FM from StarkElectronic.com It costs $30 + $15 ups from Worcester and arrived 24 hours after I ordered it. I installed it in my attic today with a 75 Ohm coax down to the basement. I live 14 miles from from the tower and now (at least tonight ) am getting perfect reception of WRGB, WNYT and WMHT on my Samsung. I was having lots of problems with my RS powered antenna and the Zenith Silver Sensor. Those are going back.Paul:
Thanks for the info.
I was unable to find the Channel Master 5646 on either Starkelectronic.com or Channelmaster.com. Could you please either post or PM me the links? Did you install an amp on the line? Is the 5646 a MD antenna?

AlbanyHDTV,
http://www.starkelectronic.com/cmadv.htm

The 5646 replaces the 3016, which was discontinued. There is a good chart there showing what you might need. He did say that he was shipping me the last one (of that model), but who knows.

I did not install an amp on the line, and sorry, I don't know what a MD antenna is,.

My guess is that WRGB has improved the signal in the past few days, but I can now seemingly get all the stations without any futz at all. Hopefully this will remain the case.


BTW, for those thinking of an attic antenna, setting up the antenna itself was really pretty easy. You will need a pole for it sold separately, which you can get a radio shack. I used the pole from the old antenna up there.

Paul

Originally posted by ThePrisoner
Is there such a thing as perfect OTA HD without some signal breakup (pixelation breakups, sound drop outs)?

Glad to see you discover a real antenna. I'm sure one day there will be "Perfect" HD OTA, but I have yet to experience it. Even if your end is perfect many glitches still plague the networks and affiliates. BUT it IS getting better, all the time. Just this Wednesday, WRGB-DT upgraded 6-1 to a better compression technology... which should let viewers experience less pixelization. Yet they are also having difficulty with weather related problems at the tower. You have to take the good with the bad this early in the game.

I would be interested in hearing Peter Taubkin say "WNYT."

Perhaps someone could write him to attempt to elicit a response soley about WNYT and not WRGB, WMHT, WXXA and WTEN. The Daytona 500 broadcast could be the "Ice breaker."

Thanks MasterFX1. My attic space isn't that big, whats nice is that the back of my house looks right over at the Helderbergs. Looks like I'm now ready for the Superbowl!

I don't recall anyone raising the issue of encrypted QAM/8VSB with respect to TWC carrying the local channels. Does anyone know TWC's policy on their local HD channels? Is TWC committed to providing the locals in unencrypted 8VSB? or at least unencrypted QAM? If TWC commits to providing the locals in unencrypted 8VSB then I think there is a stronger argument for them not paying the locals for the signal. If TWC is reserving the right to encrypt the signal (or use QAM) such that a regular HDTV with an HDTV tuner cannot tune the channels off of the cable, then the channels are not being broadcast for free over TWC and the locals should get a piece of the pie. Even if that pie is just the STB rental fee that TWC collects. If you have to use TWC's STB to see the channel, then TWC has a revenue stream from that and the locals should get a piece of that stream.

Originally posted by ken.martin
Does anyone know TWC's policy on their local HD channels? Is TWC committed to providing the locals in unencrypted 8VSB? or at least unencrypted QAM? If TWC commits to providing the locals in unencrypted 8VSB then I think there is a stronger argument for them not paying the locals for the signal.

Timw Warner uses 256 QUAM on the cable. They allocate 3 mHz of spectrum for one HD signal, 8VSB uses 6 mHz. 8VSB is better for over the air because a weaker signal still produces a perfect picture. Cable puts digital signals high in the spectrum where analog signal to noise is marginal but 256 QUAM still has headroom.

Tower Guy: So yes or no, can an ATSC tuner decode the HD locals on the TWC wire?

How many miles is it from the digital towers to clifton park/halfmoon?

Originally posted by justman
How many miles is it from the digital towers to clifton park/halfmoon? Go to Antennaweb.org (http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Address.aspx) and enter your address. The site will list the distance and also the best antenna for your location.

How many miles is it from the digital towers to clifton park/halfmoon?
give or take a couple...

http://www.indo.com/cgi-bin/dist?place1=Berne+NY&place2=Halfmoon+NY

200 post's for me... woot! :p

OK looks like to get all the locals i need a Green
if i want to get carried away and get Kingston i need a yellow
if i attic mount will a slate roof impede the signal???
(160 year old house)

To everyone who uses Dish Network,

I'm thinking of switching over to Dish Network for programming plus HD. Will DIsh Network also install my OTA HD antenna on my house along with the satellite?

DISH will hire a local company to actually perform the installation. I don't think a VHF/UHF antenna install is part of the arrangement between DISH and whoever gets the job. However, I am more than sure you can negotiate a reasonable price for the technician to also install your antenna. After you sign up for DISH, you will be contacted by the local people for an install appointment. This would be when you should mention that you are also looking to have your antenna installed.

BTW, Same situation for DirecTV. The VOOM install does include an OTA antenna.

Can someone confirm that TWC works like this:

They get a 720P signal from ABC and convert it to 1080i at their facilities. They then broadcast that 1080i signal along the wire to our boxes.

OR, do they send it down the wire in 720P and let our boxes decide what to do with it? The 3250 box lets you pick an output resolution.

thanks,

Paul

Originally posted by Paul B. Musser
Can someone confirm that TWC works like this:

They get a 720P signal from ABC and convert it to 1080i at their facilities. They then broadcast that 1080i signal along the wire to our boxes.

OR, do they send it down the wire in 720P and let our boxes decide what to do with it? The 3250 box lets you pick an output resolution.

thanks,

Paul


The second one. You can set the box to pass-through and see what is being sent to the box.

For some reason my box seems to go back to fixed after a while. But, I like the pass-through setting.

For some reason my box seems to go back to fixed after a while.

Yea, mine does that too. Anybody with any idea how to keep it "locked" in pass through mode?

So how does the pass through work? It actually sends out whatever it gets? 1080i OR 720p OR 480i?

P