How consistent is the digital OTA in Albany? I will be moving soon and am considering OTA only for locals (no cable backup). We will go crazy if there are problems & dropouts and we have no other source to turn to.

Also, is there any local boards on the web to discuss OTA reception issues in Albany? We have a Yahoo group in Atlanta and users would post problems to determine if it was our equipment or a problem at the source.

Originally posted by ThePrisoner
To everyone who uses Dish Network,

I'm thinking of switching over to Dish Network for programming plus HD. Will DIsh Network also install my OTA HD antenna on my house along with the satellite?

Keep in mind, that DISH may still require the HD "dish" to be pointed AND receiving a signal from the 65.1 satellite in order to utilize OTA. yea, I know.

But when I had the DISH 6000 model, in order to utilize the 8VSB module (in order to receive OTA signals) Dish REQUIRED that the receiver be able to "get" a signal off the 65.1 satellite. If it didn't get a signal, the receiver would refuse to let the OTA work.

In other words, during a rainstorm/snowstorm if you lose your signal to the 65.1 satellite no OTA for you.

Another reason I dropped DISH (that and at the time, it was another $80 for the module to get Discover HD AND another $12/month for Discovery HD. And they wouldn't let me get CBS HD because I could get it from the local stations)

m_jonis: DISH has made major improvements to both the cost and technology since you were a subscriber.

Originally posted by Tconnors
The second one. You can set the box to pass-through and see what is being sent to the box.

For some reason my box seems to go back to fixed after a while. But, I like the pass-through setting.

Just to make sure I'm understanding correctly. I have the SA 3100 right now (have to go and exchange for the 3250).

TW simply takes whatever the signal is and passes it through to us. So if ABC broadcasts in 480p, we get 480p. If a certain show is 720, we get 720. Same for 1080i?

I thought I saw an earlier post about TWC "upconverting". (which I don't see what the big deal is given that my Samsun OTA receiver upconverts everything to 1080i anyway). UNLESS what they meant is that TW takes a 1080i signal and say, downgrades it to 720 to push along the stream, and then the box "upconverts" from that.

I have been told that TWC upconverts the channels at the head end.

Originally posted by Tconnors
You can set the box to pass-through and see what is being sent to the box.

For some reason my box seems to go back to fixed after a while. But, I like the pass-through setting. If you use a DVI cord with the SA3250HD, Pass Through is not an available option. Only Fixed, Auto-DVI, Up Convert1, & Up Convert 2 are options.

The Auto-DVI setting shifted my picture 2" to the left & off the screen, leaving a 2" vertical black bar on the right side of the screen. TWC sent a service rep to my house and when he got here, his first comment was, "They didn't even tell us the DVI port was enabled yet." His "fix" for my shifted image was to set the General Settings Picture Format to "Fixed" and the Quick Settings Picture Format to "1080i". However, now whenever I turn on the TV, I get white snow on the screen and have to hold the SELECT button for 3 seconds (until the message light comes on), then press VOL- (HdSr should show on the 3250 display), and then press VOL+ (to set to 1080i). Then picture immediately displays on the TV.

Anyone else having similar problems with their 3250HD box?

Originally posted by MasterFX1
I have been told that TWC upconverts the channels at the head end.

Right now, according to the box, TEN is in 720p and so is XXA. As I understand it FOX only does 480p right now. So TW or XXA must be up-converting it.

How consistent is the digital OTA in Albany?
justman-
My signal has been quite consistent, but again it all depends upon your particular location..if you are going to be located in the Halfmoon/Clifton Park demographic I would suggest a quality outdoor uhf/vhf combo antenna, doesn't seem like the indoor amplified antenna's are making the grade and seem stubborn,you shouldn't have a problem with roof/attic mounted antenna.. you may also want to consider a line amp..

Is there any local boards on the web to discuss OTA reception issues in Albany?

I think AVS and AlbanyHDTV's site are about it for now.. HDTV is fairly new to this region and your best info is going to come from members right here in this very thread..we are the early testers and I see a rapid increase of members in the future..I also see a slow transition from this thread to a home at albanyhdtv.com after this thread becomes too big and confusing to the newcomers..

Also,welcome to the thread and a soon to be welcome to the capitol region of upstate NY..

TConners,

I set mine to pass thru, but I don't see where it indicates what the signal is?

P

Originally posted by Paul B. Musser
TConners,

I set mine to pass thru, but I don't see where it indicates what the signal is?

P


If you chance from TENHD to Discovery HD it will read "normal 1080i". Change back to TEN it will read "normal 720p" It's displayed for about 2 seconds. If your picture is zoomed you might not see it. It's at the bottom right hand side. It only shows when it changes. If you go from one 1080i station to another it won't display it again.

My tv also displays the signal that is being received.

Tconners: I know that WXXA is upconverting to 720p with their local programming. I am not completely sure about when they are in prime.

Originally posted by AlbanyHDTV
Anyone else having similar problems with their 3250HD box?

AlbanyHDTV: I have a 3250HD hooked up via DVI (auto-DVI mode, which is the default). Everything works ok, no problems with geometry or shifting. Does your TV set have alignment settings per input? Perhaps you can shift the image to the right.

Does it do it on all modes? Try an SD channel, like ESPN (should say Normal 480i), then try 1810 (720p) then DiscoveryHD (1080i).

If all else fails, try exchanging your box for a different one.

Would you pay an extra $1 a month to TWC to receive all of the local channels (Including WNYT, WRGB, WMHT and WEWB) in High Definition?

Hypothetically, if each broadcaster demanded $0.10 per subscriber, the total increase in programming costs to TWC would be $0.60. Charging $1, would allow TWC to profit $0.40 per subscriber.

Originally posted by MasterFX1
Would you pay an extra $1 a month to TWC to receive all of the local channels (Including WNYT, WRGB, WMHT and WEWB) in High Definition?

Hypothetically, if each broadcaster demanded $0.10 per subscriber, the total increase in programming costs to TWC would be $0.60. Charging $1, would allow TWC to profit $0.40 per subscriber.

Why would I want to pay more for something I should already be getting?? TWC makes a big enough profit on me. They make sure of that when they increase my cable rates almost every other year...just like they did this past Jan 1st.

The locals make money on advertising, so if a local station doesn't want to deal with a local cable company in a certain way, there's that many more viewers not seeing those advertisements. Personally, I've watched WTEN on TWC (CH 1810) 95% more (when I normally wouldn't) than any of the other local stations because I was getting WTEN in HD from TWC. TWC even said in a recent statement that most people view the locals thru them, not the "Free" OTA.

If I was an advertiser on WRGB,etc....I'd maybe reevaluate things because the situation is only going to get worse untill the FCC steps in....and who knows when that may be.

Yes, I would pay $1 more/month for all local HD channels.

I live in an apartment in a valley, surrounded by woods... cable is my only real option.

(I also agree with lufters' post, however I know TWC would never give up profit to the local stations)

Lufters: Thanks for your feelings, but I'm looking for a "Yes" or "NO" only. Was that a "No" from you? Remember it's just a buck. If you will grudgingly pay the $1, then it's a "Yes."

Originally posted by lufters
TWC even said in a recent statement that most people view the locals thru them, not the "Free" OTA.

H'mm, how do they know?

TWC= ABC HD
OTA=NBC HD,CBS HD, PBS HD

Oh, they were talking about analog TV.

I would happily pay $1.00, but I doubt it will be that cheap.

Originally posted by MasterFX1
Lufters: Thanks for your feelings, but I'm looking for a "Yes" or "NO" only. Was that a "No" from you? Remember it's just a buck. If you will grudgingly pay the $1, then it's a "Yes."


That's a BIG NO!!!! because of the whole point. $1 is a Dollar.

Post #437 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3235744#post3235744)

But if it's the "only" way to get the locals in HD thru TWC then so be it.

You seem to be very in favor of the local stations?? You've had a very biased opinion since day one! Take a look at your posts.(I'm sure a lot of people who frequent this board will back me up on this). Who do you work for??

...and you don't have to thank me on my feelings since most people who read this board feel the same way I do. Why would anybody pay extra for something they should already have???

If you take a look at all my posts....I'm completely neutral....I'm looking out for "Us" Consumers (HD users)....that's all. What's wrong with that?

Paying an extra $1 isn't going to get me the Super Bowl in HD on TWC this year is it?

Originally posted by lufters
That's a BIG NO!!!! because of the whole point. $1 is a Dollar.
But if it's the "only" way to get the locals in HD thru TWC then so be it.

I'm confused, so is that a "Yes" or "No?" (Again, I'm looking for a one word answer. If this was an actual offer from TWC, you could either subscribe or not. There is no in-between.)

I don't think it's fair that TWC intends to use the local HD's as the hook to reel in a big Digital Subscriber. If I was to go TWC, I would only want the analog basic and the HD channels. But as I understand it, TWC would force me into subscribing to the full digital service, a pricey package I don't want. I believe TWC will one day soon implement an HD tier that costs extra with or without WRGB and WNYT.

I am also in favor of ESPN-HD's stance with TWC. My employer has nothing to do with it. TWC is being greedy... and I'll live without those stations because as a fan of the Television Entertainment Industry, I think TWC is acting like a big baby. Content is King. Cable is a distibutor. If Cable wants to sell a certain product, it must first buy it. If a gas station wants to sell gas, they must first buy it from a fuel vendor. If a grocer wants to sell produce, he must first buy it from the vegetable distibutor. Do you understand yet? I don't know what you do for a living, but if anyone could take your finished product, whatever it is, for free, and then resell it at a profit, you would be upset.

MasterFx1, I'm not taking sides here. I respect both yours and Lufters postings and look forward to when you BOTH write.

However, I'm not sure you're making a good argument. The content IS free if it's OTA, we're basically renting TWC's big attenna. A better (?) agrument: A gas station gets gas for free and we agree to pay him to haul it to our home. The gas vendor adds a new flavor of gas, that we can get free (I know, we need a STB) from the vendor. The gas station would like to haul it to us with the regular gas, but the vendor will only give it free to us or charge the station.

You know, reading what I just typed; this is like King Solomon's dilemma. Although, my take is, if WRGB wants to buy us the STB, then I'm on their side. BUT, since we (virtually) pay TWC for our STB, then I have to take their side. If it's free OTA, it should be under the existing arrangement. If WRGB simply got a stronger NTSC transmitter, would they expect TWC to pay more?

jpeter1093: Except not only do you need the STB, you also need to UPGRADE to the Digital service, the less expensive analog service doesn't do it. And I'm not making this extra-fee HD tier up, it IS already happening in other New York State TWC markets. If I could get the HD locals as part of TWC's least expensive programming tier, that would be a totally different story.

Good point about being forced into the digital service upgrade, even if the extra-fee HD tier never comes about.

Please don't get me wrong, I love the lively debate, but I would like to remain focused on my poll:

Would you be willing to pay TWC an additional $1/mo. to receive all of the locals in HD.
This is a "Yes" or "No" poll. Even if you are totally pissed, but still willing to pay the $1, that counts as a "Yes."

So far, it seems I have 2 Yes, and 1 (I think) No. -Lufters, PM me to confirm you are a "No."

I'm a yes.

I'm a reluctant yes :(

Yes

TWC does't make you get the digital tier for HD. I tried this and it works. They seem perfectly OK to let you have the locals on HD with just broadcast basic (about $7 per month). You will need to rent some SA3250s from them for something like $7/month/unit. I haven't heard if a generic STB such as LG3100A (which does QAM) can receive the TWC locals in HD.

Regarding the vote, I'd say YES if I can use my own STB, and NO if I need TWC's $7/month STB. (I realize it was a yes or no only question but you didn't indicate anything about the STB situation)

Originally posted by MasterFX1
Tower Guy: So yes or no, can an ATSC tuner decode the HD locals on the TWC wire?

No, see the following web site for built in tuner info:

http://www.ce.org/publications/books_references/digital_america/video/cable_story.asp

Or, for general info on digital cable see:

http://www.dolby.com/professional/tvaudio/dtvupdate/m.nw.0002.dtvaudioupdate.pdf

Ahh, Tower Guy, what ken.martin is pointing out is different than my question... Can a newer generation tuner that also has a QAM tuner decode the local HD channels?

ken.martin: Your situation is quite interesting. Do you now get WXXA-DT also? So your total Video services bill is basic analog plus $7 for the STB to get the HD locals? Can you trade your tuner in for the latest model?

Interesting to ponder, but at $7/mo STB fee, it would take nearly four years to recoup the costs of just buying one. I (and I assume 'We') would need to decide how often I would want to upgrade my tuner, versus how often TWC will update their tuners.

Can I pay $1 for only the HD local OTA's and not have to subscribe to any other channel? - Sign me up - it solves my problem.

Is anyone else not getting Las Vegas on WNYT (9:00PM) to fill up their entire widescreen? I have 2" vertical bars on the left & right.

As of now, Las Vegas on channel 13 is not in HD. Is it literally that someone at NYT needs to flip a switch? Does anyone know if you can actually call and ask them to do it. This is one thing that drives me crazy!

No current HDTV feed with Las Vegas yet...

Was the same with Law and Order Saturday night..seems someone on the WNYT end is asleep at the wheel...

I am experiencing unwatchable levels of break-up on both 6-1 and 6-2 right now, despite excellent signal strength. I don't know about 13-1, try harrassing their newsroom.

Poll Stats: 6 Yes, 1 (I think) No.

Just spoke to Greg at Master Control at WNYT. He flipped a switch as I was watching and it went to HD. Go figure.

WRGB is rock solid for me on Raymond.

No breakups with me MFX1, I been watching WRGB-HD since 8pm and its been all green light up here and not even the slightest amount of pixelation, SS is the norm at 100%...

Originally posted by AlbanyHDTV
Just spoke to Greg at Master Control at WNYT. He flipped a switch as I was watching and it went to HD. Go figure.

cool!

My 6-1 & 6-2 are solid, have been all night. I'm in the Waterford/Halfmoon area

How mamny people out there do you guys think are actually trying to set up a OTA setup (or have done it) in the Capital Region because they cant get HD from TWC?

Paul

Just hooked mine up my OTA receiver this evening.

Can't get WMHT with a RS indoor antenna right now.

I have a Channel Master 5646 on order that I will install in my attic this weekend.

Originally posted by Paul B. Musser
How mamny people out there do you guys think are actually trying to set up a OTA setup (or have done it) in the Capital Region because they cant get HD from TWC?

Paul

Not many....most people are totally clueless about what's going on (even with the Super Bowl coming up)...and if they do know...their clueless on how to solve the problem. They don't have time to sit on a message board all night like most of us. :p


...and MasterFX1....that's a NO!...just because :D

Originally posted by MasterFX1
I am experiencing unwatchable levels of break-up on both 6-1 and 6-2 right now, despite excellent signal strength. I don't know about 13-1, try harrassing their newsroom.

Poll Stats: 6 Yes, 1 (I think) No.


Actually, I have excellent signal strength, with absolutely no breakups what so ever..........on WTEN-HD TWC (CH. 1810)....and ya know...I can't even remember the last time I had a weak signal. :D

P.S. WXXA-HD (TWC CH. 1808) is looking pretty damn good too!!

"Wired to the Pole" ain't to Shabby!

Originally posted by lufters
Actually, I have excellent signal strength, with absolutely no breakups what so ever..........on WTEN-HD TWC (CH. 1810)....and ya know...I can't even remember the last time I had a weak signal.:D

P.S. WXXA-HD (TWC CH. 1808) is looking pretty damn good too!! Hilarious! LOL:D

most people are totally clueless about what's going on
I think this statement works both ways..

I can't tell you about the many people I know that own HD compatible television sets and aren't even concerned about receiving HDTV..

Sure , they were all informed at the time of purchase they would need a seperate "whatcha-ma-callit" box to receive HDTV, but after setting up the bigscreen all that escaped their minds.. they're happy with what they have and see no reason for an upgrade..

In a different perspective, I was approached today by another friend who is about to take a $3500 plunge on a LCD flat panel and wasn't aware that his HD choices were going to be very limited via TWC, he thought all the channels would be HD... wow!

Hilarious! LOL
Yeah, especially when you receive the monthly bill, what a riot! :p

Hey luft..I'll admit, that was a good one and I bet you were just waiting for the opportunity to let that one out!

Tconnors, what antenna are you using?

Originally posted by justman
Tconnors, what antenna are you using?



It's a indoor Radio Shack 15-1880. I think it cost $50.

I have a SIR 151, I get about 75% signal strength. I've read that's as high as it will go. I don't know if that true or not, but the picture is great.

Originally posted by lufters
Not many....most people are totally clueless about what's going on (even with the Super Bowl coming up)...and if they do know...their clueless on how to solve the problem. They don't have time to sit on a message board like all night like most of us. :p


...and MasterFX1....that's a NO!...just because :D

Me. ONLY because of CBS though. They seem to have WAY more HDTV content (in higher resolutions) than the others. Plus I like CSI and Cold Case. Although I've not watched Law & Order yet (waiting for reruns to finish).

One station I REALLY wish had HDTV? Sci Fi. Only seen it on VOOM! though. And I'm not about to spend $700 plus $70/month. that's a little too pricey.

Originally posted by BreakStuff
Yeah, especially when you receive the monthly bill, what a riot! :p

Hey luft..I'll admit, that was a good one and I bet you were just waiting for the opportunity to let that one out!

I couldn't help myself on that one. :D

Yeah, I do laugh at my TWC bill every month....what a Joke!

Tconnors,
Yesterday I went to return my RS 15-1880 antenna at the store in Latham Farms (where I bought it) and the manager couldn't believe one of his salesman had sold it to me because it is supposed to be off the shelf now because, "It doesn't work." 2 weeks ago the guy found it in the back room for me.

It never worked well or me, but neither did the Silver Sensor. Just thought that was interesting.

I never did get my 3250 box to tell me the resolution of the programming. Possibly its down in the over scan of my Toshiba?

I'll try my other system when I get a chance.

Can I vote yes again if it means getting CBS on TWC by Sunday? :>

Originally posted by MasterFX1
ken.martin: Your situation is quite interesting. Do you now get WXXA-DT also? So your total Video services bill is basic analog plus $7 for the STB to get the HD locals? Can you trade your tuner in for the latest model?


I cancled my service because at the time I had three HD tuners and was getting only one channel (this was before WXXA-DT was on TWC) So I was paying $21 (3 STBs * $7) per month for only one channel and that didn't make a ton of sense. I figure if TWC gets all the major networks then I will reevaluate. The tuners were SA3250's.

If a standard QAM tuner can decode the locals free of charge (legally), then TWC may (I said may) have a leg to stand on.

Originally posted by MasterFX1
Would you pay an extra $1 a month to TWC to receive all of the local channels (Including WNYT, WRGB, WMHT and WEWB) in High Definition?

Hypothetically, if each broadcaster demanded $0.10 per subscriber, the total increase in programming costs to TWC would be $0.60. Charging $1, would allow TWC to profit $0.40 per subscriber.

Yes

7 Yes, 1 No. (And I suspect the 1 "No" would cave and get it anyway.)

It was brought to my attention that when Capital News 9 launched, the basic cable package went up $2 to compensate the cost of the new news service.

I suspect my reception troubles with 6-1 and 6-2 are due to ghosting in my signal. I brought the Tuner to work and it performed fine. Why this problem would suddenly show up this week of all weeks is truely cruel. (And Lufters, spare me the forthcoming remark, TWC does not offer any service to my address)

Originally posted by MasterFX1
(And Lufters, spare me the forthcoming remark, TWC does not offer any service to my address)

:D!!

Originally posted by MasterFX1
7 Yes, 1 No. (And I suspect the 1 "No" would cave and get it anyway.)

It was brought to my attention that when Capital News 9 launched, the basic cable package went up $2 to compensate the cost of the new news service.

I suspect my reception troubles with 6-1 and 6-2 are due to ghosting in my signal. I brought the Tuner to work and it performed fine. Why this problem would suddenly show up this week of all weeks is truely cruel. (And Lufters, spare me the forthcoming remark, TWC does not offer any service to my address)

MasterFX1,
If by ghosting you mean "multicasting" you may need a more directional antenna. I'm in Kingston, so I have distance concerns, but the first antenna I tried was a CM 4228 which is not very directional. Strong signal but breakups, and on the analog stations I had ghosting. Switched to a Yagi, CM 4248 and the signal is great. No problems with 6-1, 6-2. 17-1, and 17-3 (I think that is what WMHT is using???), even during last nights snow storm. You may want to try a Yagi to eliminate the reflected signal. The 4248 is overkill from your distance, but a smaller Yagi may help.......

BTW, I vote no for TWC. I have Directv and when I wanted to get Road Runner from TWC, they wanted $20 a month more than the going rate because I didn't get Digital Cable from them. I wouldn't go near TWC for anything again. I did get my service through Earthlink for $8 a month less than TWC's best rate :)

Originally posted by MasterFX1
I suspect my reception troubles with 6-1 and 6-2 are due to ghosting in my signal. I brought the Tuner to work and it performed fine.

...and where would work be, WRGB or WNYT??.....or did you go and hook up your Tuner directly to the new tower?

I bet you got perfect reception at that point.."Wired to the Pole"! :D

I would pay 1 dollar a month extra for hdtv locals.

I am reluctantly using twc since I rent an apartment, and don't have a balcony or anything similar to hang a dish on.

What I really want is a real allacarte service. I turned on the Paris-Dakar Rally a few weeks back and found I no longer had speed vision. In order to get speed vision, I had to add a bunch of weird sports channels for a small fee. While I didn't mind this, why can't I remove the blocks of crappy music video channels, or "chick" show channels. (Not that my gf would let me). I think a tiered service is a good thing, but it must be done uniformly. I'm sure the economics of the industry won't allow this, but it would be my ideal.

I actually have a sale pending on my house in R'ville and will be moving to a temp apartment in Clifton Park for a few months, so it makes no sense to pursue new antennas on my current house. I will probably become a *gasp* TWC customer, atleast during my apartment tenure, but mostly because I have not had broadband internet in 4 years. I'll never get rid of my OTA HD tuner though.

It is worth pointing out that of the 6 homes I have viewed as a buyer, 5 of them had an HD monitor in the living room! All homes are listed between 145K-165K. The one seller that did not have one was an 80+ years old widow.

On another note: Winegard introduced a revolutionary outdoor antenna design. http://www.winegard.com/offair/squareshooter.htm

Poll Results: 8 Yes, 1 No.

Originally posted by Paul B. Musser
Tconnors,
Yesterday I went to return my RS 15-1880 antenna at the store in Latham Farms (where I bought it) and the manager couldn't believe one of his salesman had sold it to me because it is supposed to be off the shelf now because, "It doesn't work." 2 weeks ago the guy found it in the back room for me.


That's funny, the radio shack guy in the clifton country mall told me that was the best one for HD indoor that they had. That was about two month ago. They must have gotten a lot of returns.
I have been lucky, I've had very few reception problems. It was really plug and play for me

Originally posted by MasterFX1
Would you pay an extra $1 a month to TWC to receive all of the local channels (Including WNYT, WRGB, WMHT and WEWB) in High Definition?

Hypothetically, if each broadcaster demanded $0.10 per subscriber, the total increase in programming costs to TWC would be $0.60. Charging $1, would allow TWC to profit $0.40 per subscriber.

I hate to think of owing TWC more money (it won't be long before I'll be washing dishes at their HQ), but I would pay $1/mo extra to get local HD.

I hooked up my DVI cable to my SA 3250 last week and it works great, but...

My system also has a TiVo which is hooked up to the S-Video output of the 3250. Well, it turns out that whenever TiVo tried to record anything when the TV is off, all I get is a 3250 error screen "DVI Alert" telling me that my TV is not HDCP-enabled and I need to use the composite video connection.

As far as I can figure, when the TV is off, the 3250 doesn't get the HDCP handshaking it needs and decides that I am trying to do something illegal with the digital signal whenever TiVo tries to change channels.

Has anyone else had a similar problem? Does anybody know of a workaround? I don't plan to keep the TV on around the clock to get TiVo to work! I tried talking to TWC about it, but they just say that they don't know anything about TiVo. I don't think this is a TiVo issue; it's an issue of using the analog port of the cable box while the DVI port is enabled.

Ideas anybody?

Originally posted by RWSimon
As far as I can figure, when the TV is off, the 3250 doesn't get the HDCP handshaking it needs and decides that I am trying to do something illegal with the digital signal whenever TiVo tries to change channels.

Has anyone else had a similar problem? Does anybody know of a workaround? I don't plan to keep the TV on around the clock to get TiVo to work! I tried talking to TWC about it, but they just say that they don't know anything about TiVo. I don't think this is a TiVo issue; it's an issue of using the analog port of the cable box while the DVI port is enabled.

Ideas anybody? I have a TiVo setup with my 3250. However, I split my incoming cable feed so one goes to the TiVo and one goes to the 3250. If you don't have premium channels & don't want to record any of the "digital only" channels, you can do this.

You can also rent another STB from TWC and use that with our TiVo.

It is the DVI connection that is causing your problem.

When you turn on the TV in DVI mode, does it display "white snow"? Mine does. In order to get rid of the "snow" and display the video, I have found that holding the SELECT button for 3 seconds on the 3250 (until the message light comes on), then press VOL- (HdSr should show on the 3250 display), and then press VOL+ (to set to 1080i). The picture immediately displays on the TV.

You may find more info in the
SA3250 Comprehensive Review Guide - Notes and Setup (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=346428) thread.

I'd be interested to know what you find out.

Greg must be working the master control center at WNYT again.. no HDTV on NBC yet.. :(

Originally posted by BreakStuff
Greg must be working the master control center at WNYT again.. no HDTV on NBC yet.. :( Did you call? See my post concerning What to do when an HDTV program is not in HD (http://albanyhdtv.proboards18.com/index.cgi?board=Lineup&action=display&num=1075171118).

Whoopi is not in HD on WNYT, but Navy CSI on WRGB is.

I thought Whoopi was in HD, I know I've seen it HD before. I solved my reception problem literally jiggling one of the cables in my setup. Go figure. Guess even a slight interference can whack-out a single digital channel in the lineup.

Originally posted by AlbanyHDTV
Did you call? See my post concerning What to do when an HDTV program is not in HD (http://albanyhdtv.proboards18.com/index.cgi?board=Lineup&action=display&num=1075171118).

Whoopi is not in HD on WNYT, but Navy CSI on WRGB is.

Here's one for you.

I called 13 asked them to turn the HD feed on. I was told it was on. I asked if they were seeing a 16x9 picture, dead silence, then I ask if there was black bars on the sides. He said yes! The guy in master control apparently doesn't know what a HD is supposed to look like. He said he'd look into it, asked me to hold, then hung up!

It really drives me nuts.

Maybe something with NBC, maybe 13 will figure out what HD should look like.

I asked if they were seeing a 16x9 picture, dead silence, then I ask if there was black bars on the sides. He said yes!

ROFLMAO! :D

My TWC 3250 box was reset again to Channel 01 when I got home tonight.

Not sure if this is new...or maybe I haven't noticed...but whenever you press the double 00 button on the remote...it changes the stretch modes.

Originally posted by Tconnors
Here's one for you.

I called 13 asked them to turn the HD feed on. I was told it was on. I asked if they were seeing a 16x9 picture, dead silence, then I ask if there was black bars on the sides. He said yes! The guy in master control apparently doesn't know what a HD is supposed to look like. He said he'd look into it, asked me to hold, then hung up!

It really drives me nuts.

Maybe something with NBC, maybe 13 will figure out what HD should look like. Last night, Greg at WNYT said the same thing...."It is on". He was apparently looking at an HD indicator light on some control panel that was lit. After a few seconds, I saw the black bars disappear, reappear, disappear, reappear, and the disappear again. He got back on the phone and said, "I see what you mean. Thanks for notifying us." See my post here. (http://albanyhdtv.proboards18.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&num=1075174527)

Originally posted by lufters
My TWC 3250 box was reset again to Channel 01 when I got home tonight. I called TWC. They said they sent a software update last night that fixed some problems with the Video on-demand and the guide data.

My box was turned off this morning when I came downstairs at 6AM. I normally leave the box on all the time so TiVo can record.

Originally posted by AlbanyHDTV
Last night, Greg at WNYT said the same thing...."It is on". He was apparently looking at an HD indicator light on some control panel that was lit. After a few seconds, I saw the black bars disappear, reappear, disappear, reappear, and the disappear again. He got back on the phone and said, "I see what you mean. Thanks for notifying us." See my post here. (http://albanyhdtv.proboards18.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&num=1075174527)


Unfortunately my guy wasn't so helpful. I hate when I get a attitude from someone who has absolutely no idea what they're doing.

Watching 24 now looks pretty good

Originally posted by AlbanyHDTV
I called TWC. They said they sent a software update last night that fixed some problems with the Video on-demand and the guide data.

My box was turned off this morning when I came downstairs at 6AM. I normally leave the box on all the time so TiVo can record.


Could you always change the stretch modes by pressing 00 on the remote??

Originally posted by lufters
Could you always change the stretch modes by pressing 00 on the remote?? When I press 00, it changes the channel to channel 1, Womens Entertainment. No stretching.

Originally posted by BreakStuff
ROFLMAO! :D

Had to look that one up:confused:

Originally posted by Tconnors
Had to look that one up:confused:

Can you spare me the search? What did you come up with?

Originally posted by AlbanyHDTV
When I press 00, it changes the channel to channel 1, Womens Entertainment. No stretching.

My bad...it's actually my enter button on my Theater Master MX-700 Remote. Pressing enter on the TWC remote has no effect.

Weird...I'm pretty sure it didn't do that before and I didn't program that button either. But it's cool. :cool:

Originally posted by MasterFX1
Can you spare me the search? What did you come up with?


Rolling on the floor laughing my ass (arse) off (from google)

Originally posted by AlbanyHDTV
When I press 00, it changes the channel to channel 1, Womens Entertainment. No stretching.

My bad...it's actually my enter button on my Theater Master MX-700 Remote. Pressing enter on the TWC remote has no effect.

Weird...I'm pretty sure it didn't do that before and I didn't program that button either. But it's cool. :cool:

WNYT in HDTV! Go Greg! :p

How come during FOX widescreen or DTV programming we are back to stretching it on are SA3250 STB to get correct picture geometry because it is squeezed. It was fixed now I noticed it is back while watching American Idol & 24 tonight.

Originally posted by ThePrisoner
How come during FOX widescreen or DTV programming we are back to stretching it on are SA3250 STB to get correct picture geometry because it is squeezed. It was fixed now I noticed it is back while watching American Idol & 24 tonight. I thought I had 24 on earlier and it filled the screen. TConnors said 24 looked pretty good in an earlier post, too.

Originally posted by lufters
My TWC 3250 box was reset again to Channel 01 when I got home tonight.

Not sure if this is new...or maybe I haven't noticed...but whenever you press the double 00 button on the remote...it changes the stretch modes.

My SA 3100 was in the same condition. It was powered off (no power outage at the house) I'm guessing they sent out one of their lovely upgrades.

Hey TWC:

Why do you send out upgrades in the day to disrupt our cable boxes? Maybe you should get a clue and perform the updates at (gasp) odd hours of the morning when nobody's using the darn thing. Tivo does this. This is one of the reasons I returned their PVR unit. They kept sending out updates during viewing hours and the stupid bootup cycle took like 5 minutes. Idiots.

New TWC HD channels noticed this morning:
1867 - HDN
1868 - HDNM

I believe these are High Def Net and High Def Net Movies. BUT, no display, just the message 'call TWC to order'. So these two will be pay??? And so it begins....

Originally posted by jpeter1093
New TWC HD channels noticed this morning:
1867 - HDN
1868 - HDNM

I believe these are High Def Net and High Def Net Movies. BUT, no display, just the message 'call TWC to order'. So these two will be pay??? And so it begins....

I called TWC. The conversation is posted here. (http://albanyhdtv.proboards18.com/index.cgi?board=Lineup&action=display&num=1075286619)

Sounds like TWC might be throwing us a temporary HD "bone" before the non-HD Superbowl.

As of Friday, Tom Long will no longer be the GM for WRGB. He is moving on to a sister station at Grand Rapids, MI. (Bigger Market=More $$$) A new GM will begin on Monday, Feb. 2. His first day is the day after the Superbowl. I'll post his e-mail address as soon as he has one.

Could last night's problem with FOX widescreen on TWC be another example of someone forgeting to flip a switch?

HDnet and HDnet Movies are pretty good HD channels IMO. It's awesome to see some of the older movies re-transfered to HD. HDnet is very similiar in format to INHD. The owner of HDnet, HDnet Movies (and the Dallas Mavericks), MarK Cuban, frequents the avsforums and answers complaints directly! His user name is M Cuban. As far as these channels moving to a pay tier on TWC... They are already part of a pay tier on DirecTV and DISH, not to mention, oh yes... "I TOLD YOU SO!"

Poll Results: 9 Yes, 1 No.

I received an e-mail from TWC that said the above HD channels would be $3.95 per month and be available at the end of January. The e-mail also said that the SA8000HD would also be available at the same time.

Only time will tell

Mick, can you cut and paste the text of the message on the board here?

Here is the e-mail I received from TWC:

I apologize for the delayed response,

We have currently reached agreements with HDNet and HDNet Movies to have
them put on a HD Tier for an additional $3.95 per month, We are
currently testing the 8000HD model HD DVR boxes and hope to have them
both available by the end of January. We have just added XXAHD which is
the local FOX feed in HD, however this currently is an EDTV feed and
they are aware and working on resolving the issue. We are currently
ready and capable to supply CBSHD we are just waiting on the local
affiliate to provide the feed. There has been no word as of yet about
the local NBC feed in HD however when they become capable to provide a
feed we are ready. Again I apologize for the untimely response but I
hope this answers the questions for you.

$3.95? For two channels? or will the other HD channels stop being included in the digital tier? Doesn't the $0.60 seem silly now? C'mon TWC buck up.

Looking for a little insight on the Program Guide on a Zenith SAT-520 with DirectTV and OTA. I am having a problem with 13-1 and 17-1/17-3. There is no program guide available for these HD stations. It just says "Regular Programming" (or something like that!). And the guide for 17-1 is wrong. It lists kids shows all day long. The guide for 6-1 and 6-2 are correct and even 10-1 is correct, even though they are not broadcasting yet! I ran the Setup wizard last night to see it it would help, asked me if I wanted to include Local Stations and I said YES, but no help. The guide is still screwed up. Is the data for the guide a function of DirectTV? If so, maybe these stations are not in it's database? Or is my 520 just screwed up?????

$3.95 for HDNet does not seem too unreasonable, at least compared to other areas. I believe in other upstate markets, it's $6.95 for HDNet + inHD. So if inHD remains in the regular digital tier, $3.95 seems about right. The big questions remains though... if and when TWC gets ESPN HD, how much will the $3.95 increase...

I do wish, however, like another posted mentioned, that TWC chop up their digital tier into more pieces, allowing us to ditch the stuff we don't really want.

Originally posted by stoder
Looking for a little insight on the Program Guide on a Zenith SAT-520 with DirectTV and OTA. I am having a problem with 13-1 and 17-1/17-3. There is no program guide available for these HD stations. It just says "Regular Programming" (or something like that!). And the guide for 17-1 is wrong. It lists kids shows all day long. The guide for 6-1 and 6-2 are correct and even 10-1 is correct, even though they are not broadcasting yet! I ran the Setup wizard last night to see it it would help, asked me if I wanted to include Local Stations and I said YES, but no help. The guide is still screwed up. Is the data for the guide a function of DirectTV? If so, maybe these stations are not in it's database? Or is my 520 just screwed up?????

I too have the same problem. The data comes from DirecTV's data stream. Which program listing service that is a function of, I don't know. What WNYT and WMHT are not doing is forwarding their program information to program listing services. The data that is wrong for 17-1 is being derived from a kids only sub channel wmht does for cable.

As of 3:00PM 1/28/04, the HDNet and HDNetMovies channels are working on the Albany TWC system, channels 1867 and 1868. They are both included in the digital cable package for now, but for how long?

Originally posted by slayerav
I do wish, however, like another posted mentioned, that TWC chop up their digital tier into more pieces, allowing us to ditch the stuff we don't really want.

No doubt!!


TWC is totally smoking Crack when it comes to their pricing!

DirecTV is looking better and better everyday!

Photos of the shared Albany DTV transmission tower

Anybody interested in seeing what the shared DTV transmission tower looks like? You can take a drive up to the top of the Helderberg Mountains or simply click here. (http://albanyhdtv.homestead.com/tower.html)

Originally posted by slayerav
I do wish, however, like another posted mentioned, that TWC chop up their digital tier into more pieces, allowing us to ditch the stuff we don't really want.

I know. Why couldn't they just price HBO HD & Showtime HD seperately instead of buying the whole package? Now that I pay for HDNet & HDNet Movies I think I will cancel HBO, I don't have Showtime.

I'm thinking of canceling HBO (after the Sopranos) as well, but I think they get you because you loose the $7 discount on your bill of Digital Service + HBO, so you don't save that much.

I don't think I'll sign up for HDNET until I see more content I want to see. IHHD is worthless. If HDNET picks up the Olympics again, that would be worth it. Maybe there will be enough good baseball, but we'll see.

Paul

These guys must be smoking crack! They showing what I think is the west coast feed. Right in the middle of West Wing.

Fine SD through TWC.

Now it back

NO HD THOUGH!!

WE NEED GREG AGAIN

Originally posted by Paul B. Musser
I'm thinking of canceling HBO (after the Sopranos) as well, but I think they get you because you loose the $7 discount on your bill of Digital Service + HBO, so you don't save that much.

If you get the 'DigiPic 1000' package, (digital + 1 premium), you can ditch the premium and get the DVR for the same price. Maybe that's of more interest for you. That's what I'm thinking of doing once the 8000HDs are rolling.

Originally posted by lufters
No doubt!!


TWC is totally smoking Crack when it comes to their pricing!

DirecTV is looking better and better everyday!

Having subbed to DTV (and DISH), I can tell you DTV will be more than happy to charge you for their HD channels. And their customer service is the worst of all three (TWC, DISH, DTV).

Tack that onto the 5 days or so /year that you will lose satellite signal due to rain, etc. (I had 97% signal strength).

Make no mistake I do NOT like paying extra for HD content, but given that DTV started the trend first, then DISH (with their Discovery HD), and now apparently TWC, looks like we consumers will have to complain to the FCC or something.

Does anyone think there's a chance that WRGB will increase the Bandwidth on 6-1 for the Super Bowl on Sunday?

Originally posted by lufters
Does anyone think there's a chance that WRGB will increase the Bandwidth on 6-1 for the Super Bowl on Sunday?

I doubt it. This close to game time it would be a bad move to tinker with the Signal Path. In an attempt to make things slightly better, they could get way worse. 6-1 did just upgrade its encoder giving it a more efficient compression system. The new encoder with its current bandwidth should be nearly as good as the last one had it been given full bandwidth. The old encoder is lying ready in standby should the new one give the engineers trouble on Game Day. Additional staff has been devoted to the local broadcast to monitor and troubleshoot snafoos in the HD broadcast.

Originally posted by MasterFX1
The old encoder is lying ready in standby should the new one give the engineers trouble on Game Day. Additional staff has been devoted to the local broadcast to monitor and troubleshoot snafoos in the HD broadcast.

This is one reason why I would love it if WRGB let TWC have the feed for HD. How many of us are having some friends over and don't want to see any problems? Time will tell. I know there could be problems with TWC, I have seen some errors on MNF but with the Superbowl it will be hard to say if it is WRGB's end or our own equipments fault.

The encoder is a link in the chain with both OTA and TWC (If it were to be active).

Albany TWC updated its' HDTV Programming webpage (http://www.twalbany.com/digitalentertainment/hdtv_programming.php) with HDNet info today.

There was no mention of eventually having to pay for the two additional channels.

Channel 1867: HDNet
HDNet is the first all high definition national television network. HDNet features a variety of HDTV programming, including live sports, sitcoms, dramas, action series, documentaries, travel programs, music concerts and shows, special events and news features, including the popular HDNet World Report -- all in spectacular HDTV.

Channel 1868: HDNet Movies
HDNet Movies delivers a commercial-free schedule of full-length feature films converted from 35mm to high-definition, including titles from an extensive library of films. HDNet Movies will feature a mix of theatrical releases, made-for-TV movies, independent films and shorts.

I should call back TWC and see why the rep I spoke to last night said it would cost me an additional $3.95

Just got off the phone with TWC. HDnet & HDnet Movies will be free until March, than the $3.95 price kicks in if you want to keep them.

Is the $3.95 for HDnet & HDnet Movies? or is for all the non-premium (HBO/SHO) HD channels?

How are they going to work it if they indeed charge for HD? For example, if I have HBO and want HD HBO, will they want an additional charge to my normal monthly HBO charge? Can I say I don't want SD HBO, cancel that and only provide HD HBO? Can I say I don't want the SD locals, only the HD locals? Will they make it simple, 2 tiers, no cable or $200 for cable?

Originally posted by jpeter1093
How are they going to work it if they indeed charge for HD? For example, if I have HBO and want HD HBO, will they want an additional charge to my normal monthly HBO charge? Can I say I don't want SD HBO, cancel that and only provide HD HBO? Can I say I don't want the SD locals, only the HD locals? Will they make it simple, 2 tiers, no cable or $200 for cable?

With regard to the premium channels (HBO,SHO,MAX,STARZ,etc.): These packages are negotiated by the owners. HBO and SHO, for instance, mandate that HBO-HD or SHO-HD are only available in subscribing to the total HBO or SHO package. HBO and SHO have held firm on that condition.

I agree with your main sentiment though... Cable operators shouldn't force people into a seemingly "All or nothing" tier structure such that the services you actually want are all way too overpriced due to all the other stuff you don't want lumped in. The more A la Carte that is available the better for the consumer. IMO.

Do you know if HBO with HBO-HD is the same price as HBO alone or do they charge a premium to get it with the HD?

I have HBO-HD. I'm pretty certain that HBO-HD does not cost extra, beyound the normal 14 channls of HBO.

Yes, I do, too, Paul. I'm asking in the context of what happens as TWC HD "matures" and they begin the rumored charging for high def channels. I'm just wondering if we already pay for HBO, will they tack on an addtional charge for HBO's HD feed.

Anyone watching ER on WNYT? I've got a 2" black rectangle around the whole picture. Is that the way it is supposed to be?

Is that the way it is supposed to be?
Negative.. The show is normally broadcast in HDTV..but t'nite it seems like we got some sorta letterbox thingy happening.. lets call Greg, I bet he can fix it!

Originally posted by jpeter1093
Yes, I do, too, Paul. I'm asking in the context of what happens as TWC HD "matures" and they begin the rumored charging for high def channels. I'm just wondering if we already pay for HBO, will they tack on an addtional charge for HBO's HD feed.

That will be up to HBO and the next time these things come up for renegotiation. Personally, if they forced you to take the SD package and then charged more for the HD, it might just burst the bubble... but I'm sure they'll want to test the market.

Good Thread....

Official Word on Muliticasting (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=354088)

Does anyone know the terminology that can be used to explain to WNTY that they are not showing actual HD?

The last couple of nights have been like this. I call on Wed, the guy I talked to didn't get it (previously posted), but it was eventually changed.

If I could be more technical when I call maybe it would go smoother.

Thanks

Time Warner Cuts HD Deals


By Steve Donohue -- Multichannel News, 1/28/2004 5:27:00 PM

Time Warner Cable will be able to offer most of its customers this Sunday’s Super Bowl in high-definition after cutting agreements -- some of which are temporary -- with local CBS affiliates.

Time Warner divisions that have cut deals with CBS affiliates during the past week include Kansas City and Rochester, N.Y.

Four of Time Warner’s 31 divisions don’t have agreements to offer the HD feed to customers divisionwide: western and eastern Ohio; Albany, N.Y.; and Portland, Maine.

Not much time left....Can it happen? It has for Kansas City and Rochester. Does anyone know if their CBS affiliates are having the same issues with TWC as WRGB?

We all would love it if it could happen but since today is the 30th I don't have any hope left.

Interesting article about CBS and MSO's not reaching aagreements and fans getting shut out for Sunday.

http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/business/7834474.htm

What is the cheapest level of TWC cable available? I am thinking about getting a basic level as a backup for locals in case I have antenna problems. In Atlanta, there was a cable level called "Broadcast Basic" for $11 and it was around 10 channels (just the locals).

Does TWC ALbany have something like this?

Anybody getting audio dropouts on HBO-HD on TWC?

and for the 3rd consecutive night, no hdtv on WNYT! :mad:

my bad..third watch is not broadcast in hdtv..:eek:

update;

I stand corrected, for the 2nd consecutive night, Leno is NOT being broadcast in HDTV :mad:

Originally posted by BreakStuff
and for the 3rd consecutive night, no hdtv on WNYT! :mad:

my bad..third watch is not broadcast in hdtv..:eek:NBC broadcasts Third Watch in HD. See the Third Watch NBC site (http://www.nbc.com/Third_Watch/index.html). There is an HDTV logo next to the description of the program.

Did you call the station (http://albanyhdtv.proboards18.com/index.cgi?board=Lineup&action=display&num=1075171118&start=0)?

Seems like WNYT is sleeping at the control board....again!

Originally posted by justman
What is the cheapest level of TWC cable available? I am thinking about getting a basic level as a backup for locals in case I have antenna problems. In Atlanta, there was a cable level called "Broadcast Basic" for $11 and it was around 10 channels (just the locals).

Does TWC ALbany have something like this?

TWC does have a broadcast basic tier. The gray area is if the HD locals are part of that tier. Supposedly they are, but you'll have to rent a TWC-HD STB for an additional $7/Mo. It has yet to be determined if a Broadcast Basic subscriber with their own QAM-capable tuner can legally decode the HD locals.

Originally posted by justman
What is the cheapest level of TWC cable available? I am thinking about getting a basic level as a backup for locals in case I have antenna problems. In Atlanta, there was a cable level called "Broadcast Basic" for $11 and it was around 10 channels (just the locals).

Does TWC ALbany have something like this? While I have the digital service, my TWC cable bill is itemized with:

Broadcast Basic: $9.00
Standard Service: $33.90
Digital Converter: $7.60
Digital Remote: $0.35
FCC Mandated Fee: $0.05
State/loc Franchise Fee: $2.74
Total Amount Due: $53.64

The stations included in the packages are listed on the Albany TWC Channel Lineups (http://www.twalbany.com/digitalentertainment/lineups.php?displayRegion=Albany) page.

Note there is no fee for Digital service listed because my first 6 months are free. It is listed as an additional $2.45 per month in a notice I recieved from TWC in my December 2003 bill.

More details posted at AlbanyHDTV.com. (http://www.albanyhdtv.com) Look under Quick Links.

Originally posted by justman
What is the cheapest level of TWC cable available? I am thinking about getting a basic level as a backup for locals in case I have antenna problems. In Atlanta, there was a cable level called "Broadcast Basic" for $11 and it was around 10 channels (just the locals).

Does TWC ALbany have something like this?

The broadcast basic includes probably 20 channels up here and costs something like $8. The channels include all the locals plus CSpan, Weather Channel, Time Warner's Local News Channel, NASA Channel. I have heard reports that depending on where you are some other channels may or may not show up such as FOX News, Home Shopping, etc.

Here is a link to the broadcast basic channels according to TWC http://www.twalbany.com/pdf/lineups/standard_troy_batt.pdf

Originally posted by lufters
Anybody getting audio dropouts on HBO-HD on TWC?

I was getting dropouts (just little 1/2 second blips) on a couple of the non-HD HBO channels yesterday.

Originally posted by ken.martin
The broadcast basic includes probably 20 channels up here and costs something like $8. The channels include all the locals plus CNN, Weather Channel, Time Warner's Local News Channel, NASA Channel.What channel is the NASA channel on TWC?

Originally posted by AlbanyHDTV
What channel is the NASA channel on TWC?

In Clifton Park, it is on channel 14. However, I don't think it's available at all in Albany. I've emailed TWC about it and never received a response.

Re-posted for relevance from post #187, as requested by a forum user.

A local Master Control Operator "Asleep at the Wheel." This is the single most common nationwide reason a show supposed to be in HD isn't.

When this happens to a show you want to watch you may consider the following:

1. Call that station's newsroom phone (listed in phone book)
2. Ask for Master Control
3. If they say "Why?" or "No," tell them that you thought the show on their air right now was supposed to be in High Definition and wanted to ask the Master Control Operator if that was true.
4. If you get the Master Control Operator just ask him the same question.

9 times out of 10, this will get the dude to "Flip the switch." However, once I called WNYT's newsroom phone to inquire about a West Wing episode they dropped the ball on, and the newsroom person wrongly told me I wouldn't see anything because they were not HD yet. So results will vary from person to person... especially on nights and weekends.

I urge you to e-mail your disappointment when this happens to either the GM and/or Chief Engineer of the "Ball-Dropping" station. The more they realize people are expecting their HD, the more scrutinizing managers will be of their operators, the less often mistakes like this will continue.

Does anyone else see 7 black pistripes on Seinfeld while watching channel 1808 at 7:45PM? If I switch to 0008, the pinstripes are not shown.

What's up with that?

I don't have these pinstripes on any of the other 1800 series HD channels.

I seen them during Mad Max today on 1808 also.

Just talked to Master Control. They told me that they are not receiving the HD feed from the network. This has been happening the last couple of days. He just got in and didn't know why. Said he was working on it

At least he understood what I was talking about, that's a plus!

I just emailed WNYT about the latest HD broadcast problems..

I was ready to lay into them and rip them apart, but I held back and assumed it was a hardware issue and not user error... I believe they won't let us down and they will be back to normal in no time...

TWC's on-screen guide lists "Super Bowl Press Conference" from 8:00AM to 4:00PM today on INHD1. However, at 8:03AM, a show about Wyoming was being shown.

An impressive list of upcoming high profile events on INHD is shown here (http://albanyhdtv.proboards18.com/index.cgi?board=Lineup&action=display&num=1075640844).

The lead story in yesterdays (Saturday) Gazette was about the stand-off between WRGB and TWC. I do not subscribe to the online edition so I cannot copy paste for you. Tom Long (Whose last day was Friday) was quoted as saying something to the effect of... "If you knew how much money we are actually fighting for, you would laugh, and then you would be angry at TWC for not providing it."

Also of note: The article says TWC has 5000 High Def Subscribers. Where that info comes from is unknown. (I estimate TWC has 250,000 total subscribers in the market.)

The new GM is Bob Furlong. I will post his e-mail when I learn it. Monday's his first day so don't beat him up too bad. Remember, he is inheriting the situation. He is new to the company that owns WRGB and no one knows his feelings on these matters yet.

Today's Times Union has an article on page CC2 titled:

CBS promises 'judicious' use of gadgets

No HDTV: From a consumer perspective, the best technological innovation of this generation has been high-definition television. CBS will offer the Super Bowl in high-def, but Time Warner Cable has not cut a deal with local affiliate WRGB (Ch. 6) to air the HDTV signal.

"We invested a couple of million bucks, and we are not going to give it away for free," WRGB general manager Tom Long said.

Cable companies argue they shouldn't have to pay for something that anyone can pick up with a rooftop antenna.

Unless an 11th-hour agreement is reached, HDTV set owners either will need an antenna or a satellite dish to get the enhanced signal today.

The entire article is posted here (http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=214564&category=SPORTS&BCCode=&newsdate=2/1/2004).

The Bottom Line Is-
WRGB is holding the superbowl (and any other HDTV programming) hostage over what they are calling a nominal amount.

I dont watch football, I do however understand that it is the most watched annual event on television.

Frankly this pissing contest over a "MattersOf Principle" has enraged me.

Time Warner is not charging their digital customers anything for HDTV channels at this time. (even though an HDTV box is required). Most consumer sites suggest getting HDTV's without HDTV tuners. Therfore the 2 hdtv's in this house have no tuners in them. We are not going to purchase a tuner and an antenna to recieve one station, WHY SHOULD WE IF THE SIGNAL IS FREE!

I totally understand Time Warner's stance in this situation!

This situation should have been resolved by now. WRGB has burned football fans all over the capital district by using them as pawns to manipulate Time Warner into an agreement.

I see WRGB as being the culprit and I am going to boycott their advertisers until they release the HDTV signal and urge others to do the same. I also intend to tell their advertsers that.

I created an MSN GROUP (named ShameOnWRGB) as a means to inform people and get their feedback. Feel free to join it and post any feedback or information there.

Originally posted by DaBlueMeanie
I created an MSN GROUP (named ShameOnWRGB) as a means to inform people and get their feedback. Feel free to join it and post any feedback or information there.
So why not include groups called ShameOnWNYT and ShameOnWMHT, I don't see TWC broadcasting these either..

Originally posted by BreakStuff
So why not include groups called ShameOnWNYT and ShameOnWMHT, I don't see TWC broadcasting these either.. You seem a little defensive....

Would you happen to be employed by WRGB?

Originally posted by DaBlueMeanie
The Bottom Line Is-
WRGB is holding the superbowl (and any other HDTV programming) hostage over what they are calling a nominal amount.

I dont watch football, I do however understand that it is the most watched annual event on television.

Frankly this pissing contest over a "MattersOf Principle" has enraged me.

Time Warner is not charging their digital customers anything for HDTV channels at this time. (even though an HDTV box is required). Most consumer sites suggest getting HDTV's without HDTV tuners. Therfore the 2 hdtv's in this house have no tuners in them. We are not going to purchase a tuner and an antenna to recieve one station, WHY SHOULD WE IF THE SIGNAL IS FREE!

I totally understand Time Warner's stance in this situation!

This situation should have been resolved by now. WRGB has burned football fans all over the capital district by using them as pawns to manipulate Time Warner into an agreement.

I see WRGB as being the culprit and I am going to boycott their advertisers until they release the HDTV signal and urge others to do the same. I also intend to tell their advertsers that.

I created an MSN GROUP (named ShameOnWRGB) as a means to inform people and get their feedback. Feel free to join it and post any feedback or information there.

I say boycott WRGB also...don't watch their news and TV shows (only when nessessary...like the Super Bowl and Grammys).....and make sure you boycott their advertisers. Let's see how much "money" they'll lose now.

They're not going to hold me hostage!

....and when I'm done with WRGB...TWC will be probably next!

DirecTV here I come! :D

Originally posted by AlbanyHDTV
TWC's on-screen guide lists "Super Bowl Press Conference" from 8:00AM to 4:00PM today on INHD1. However, at 8:03AM, a show about Wyoming was being shown.

An impressive list of upcoming high profile events on INHD is shown here (http://albanyhdtv.proboards18.com/index.cgi?board=Lineup&action=display&num=1075640844).


My TV Guide program guide and the INHD web site say "Discoveries...America" is running all throughout the morning today.

The INHD web site used to say something in the sports section about press conferences about a week ago but it looks like the schedule changed and your program guide didn't get the update.

In the HD programming forum I see some last minute deals with CBS today. Some CBS channels through TWC will only be on today for the big game but will go off air tomorrow so further deals can be worked out. One area will have CBS turned on at 12pm. What are the odds of this happening here in the capitol region today.

Originally posted by BreakStuff
So why not include groups called ShameOnWNYT and ShameOnWMHT, I don't see TWC broadcasting these either..

Maybe because their not holding me Hostage with the most watched show of the year called the Super Bowl. It's not my fault WRGB is an affilate of CBS.

It sounds like WRGB would be in an equal postion..if not better to make up their "miilions of dollars" in upgrades anyway. Today would have been a great starting point with the digital feed to TWC.

Why aren't WXXA and WTEN complaining about spending millions?? What about MOST of the other locals across the country that have deals in place with the cable companies??

Spending money to upgrade is part of being a TV station...if they don't like it...their definetly in the wrong buisness! I'm sure another company would love to take CBS out of the hands of WRGB and broadcast it locally.


Nuff said!

WMHT has been experiencing break-ups and pixelization the past 12 hours that might be related to broadcasting corrections. Geometry has been corrected and I no longer notice overscan on PBS-HD.. :)

Originally posted by BreakStuff
So why not include groups called ShameOnWNYT and ShameOnWMHT, I don't see TWC broadcasting these either..



Could it possibly be because I feel that WRGB is holding FOOTBALL FANS in the capital district hostage over what they are calling a NOMINAL AMOUNT?

If the amount is so nominal then WHAT IS THE POINT!

Is a nominal amount of money more important than their audience?

IT SEEMS SO to me!

After the game no more WRGB in my household. I own a business and I am constantly investing money back into it, it's an essential component, I don't look for hand outs. What lame excuses that they are offering. Shame,shame,shame WRGB!

Originally posted by **** WRGB!
I own a business and I am constantly investing money back into it

It's understood you have to invest money back into your company,but in doing so, do you also give away your product at no cost?

Originally posted by BreakStuff
It's understood you have to invest money back into your company,but in doing so, do you also give away your product at no cost?



The Product is paid for when we purchase from their advertisers


That is how the television industry has been functioning for over 50 years didnt you know?

Originally posted by **** WRGB!
After the game no more WRGB in my household. I own a business and I am constantly investing money back into it, it's an essential component, I don't look for hand outs. What lame excuses that they are offering. Shame,shame,shame WRGB!


WRGB made these updates because the FCC requires they be in place by 2005. This is a typical upgrade cost for a tevevision station.

The advertisers should be raising hell, after all they are the ones that are paying for wrgb's upgrade arent they?


Things that make me go HMMMMMM

As a consumer the last place I want to be is stuck in the middle of a dispute such as this, it is greed at its worst. If WRGB were even a little consumer friendly they would have figured out a way to provide the signal for today then go back to negotiating an agreement thereafter. There simply is no argument that can defend WRGB execs. Why were so many other affiliates able to negotiate a deal? Even DirecTV is broadcasting in high def. but unfortunately mostly to major cities. And just to note, many of my expenditures are not made just to make a buck, sometimes you have to spend money to keep up with technology and trends,simply part of the cost of doing business. SHAME,SHAME,SHAME WRGB, get a clue!!!!

The FCC has never required HDTV. The FCC only requires 480i. So why should a station invest in converting to full-blown HD if the revenue they generate (and the ratings) is exactly the same? In all the other markets that CBS is on a cable or sat system in HD, the MSO compensated the provider for the signal. This happens to be one of the few markets in which TWC sees fit to keep fighting... And WRGB is not going it alone, it's the Superbowl that is focusing the attention on CBS affilaites. WNYT also has stated publicly they are having negotiating disputes with TWC. ESPN-HD and TWC cannot reach an agreement either.

WNYT has the Daytona 500 in HD this month. It is the second most watched live televised event of the year... and it's not available from TWC. They also have the Olympics in HD. No one seems to care yet!?! That's becasue the Superbowl is THIS week and that's what viewers care about- right here, right now. So will WNYT become the new whipping boy after next week?

As far as I can tell, the cheapest way to get HD on TWC is to pay around $20/mo. (Broadcast Basic $9 + STB $8 + FCC franchise Fee $3)... That's $240/Year. I plan on watching HD for more than 2 years, so to me, my own OTA-HD box is way cheaper.

Retail stores have a tendendacy to advise consumers they don't want a OTA-HD tuner built-in or STB because they don't want to risk losing a sale over the price; or their inventory is filled with HDTV-no-tuner sets... Or they were MISTAKENLY informed that cable will automatically have all the locals.

TWC charges for advertisements on their cable system, yet cable is not offered for free. Subscibers pay to see content via cable, yet they are still subjected to advertisements on almost all the non-premium channels. Why is OK for the cable company to charge for both content and advertisements, but not a local affiliate?

The real shame is on the viewer who believed that TWC would do what they needed to, and chose not to invest in OTA-HD.

They couldn't swallow their pride for just one day?

There are two basic business models at work here. One is the business model that radio stations, television stations and even newspapers to a little different degree work under. They provide their content free or for much less than it costs to produce it and then sell advertising to become profitable. The larger the subscriber, listening and or viewing base they have, the more they can charge their advertisers.

The other business model is the one that cable companies use. They purchase or freely acquire programming with state of the art receiving equipment providing a superior picture for a fee to their subscribers. We also know that they sell advertising to increase their revenues.

When cable came along most everyone decided that the picture was superior to what they could get with their roof mounted antennae and they had access to content they never even dreamed of before. /as the masses gravitated to cable and started taking down their antennae the local stations were in a panic over losing their advertising dollars. They petitioned for and acquired a mandate from the FCC that cable had to carry their content.

What it all boils down to is this: If TWC didn't have to carry WRGB's SD signal and told WRGB if you don't allow us to provide the free HD signal you are providing OTA then we will not provide your SD signal either, WRGB would be out of business...end of story.

Now before anyone flames me for not mentioning the other local stations, they are not the stations that fired the first shot across the bow of TWC by advising consumers to buy a STB and an antenna in order to see the Super Bowl.

I am not going to spend money on more equipment in order to watch WRGB in HD. As a matter of fact...after watching WRGB long enough to compile a list of advertisers, I won't be watching it in SD either.

WRGB is willing to freely give away their HD content over the air to anyone who wants it, except to those of us who subscribe to cable. WRGB can go to blazes!!!!!

Wordz

Mitsubishi 55411
Yamaha RX-V630
Sony speakers and SUB
TWC

I tried joining (searching for) ShameOnWRGB at MSN but was unable to locate it. Any help would be appreciated.

Wordz

While the must-carry law is true, most networks waive their must-carry rights in lieu of a Retransmission Agreement. This is the case for every analog station I have ever worked for. Must-Carry is mostly intended for smaller independent stations, like WXXA before they were a FOX affiliate. Usually the station and cable system come to some sort of reciprical advertising buy agreement... i.e. the cable company will purchase advertising on the local station, and the station will buy ad time on the cable system.

Friday's Wall Street Journal has an article explaining it.

BTW... the game looks great in HD.

No need for that kind of behavior on this forum, that's not why we're here.

Hope the moderators step in

Originally posted by jpeter1093

Hope the moderators step in All you have to do is let me know.

Superbowl Halftime Show

The audio on the OTA HD telecast on 6-1 was not 100%. The video was rock solid, and has been the entire game. I have noticed a few times that the screen seemed blurry, but I believe that was due to the non-HD cameras.

During the halftime show, I switched my reciever to the cable TV audio & back to the OTA HD audio several times. The cable TV audio did not seem to have any of the problems I heard on 6-1.

My posts were deleted, I'd like an explanation.

When will FOX-DT (1808) be fixed, they still have the vertical black thin bars on the picture. I tried to get a look at Independence Day quick during the half-time show and noticed the picture. Does FOX even know about it?

Originally posted by AlbanyHDTV
During the halftime show, I switched my reciever to the cable TV audio & back to the OTA HD audio several times. The cable TV audio did not seem to have any of the problems I heard on 6-1.

I also heard the audio hiccups during the halftime show, keep in mind that the OTA audio was 5.1 Dolby Digital and the TWC audio is only a 2 channel stereo broadcast and I'm sure the 5.1 encoding/decoding was to blame but the breakups were only minor IMHO and not a problem, If it were the Grammy's it would be a problem, so lets hope for the best next week..

BTW..That was one good looking game! Thanks to CBS and WRGB :)

It was worth the time and effort to put up my own OTA system to see the PATS do it again! I still think WRGB is making a mistake, but THANK YOU to all the techs and engineers at WRGB and elsewhere to presented a near flawless Superbowl. I'll agree the audio seemed a little off, but nothing major.

Thanks again!

I'll keep my OTA tuner until this mess gets straitened out.

Originally posted by Wordz
There are two basic business models at work here. One is the business model that radio stations, television stations and even newspapers to a little different degree work under. They provide their content free or for much less than it costs to produce it and then sell advertising to become profitable. The larger the subscriber, listening and or viewing base they have, the more they can charge their advertisers.

The other business model is the one that cable companies use. They purchase or freely acquire programming with state of the art receiving equipment providing a superior picture for a fee to their subscribers. We also know that they sell advertising to increase their revenues.

When cable came along most everyone decided that the picture was superior to what they could get with their roof mounted antennae and they had access to content they never even dreamed of before. /as the masses gravitated to cable and started taking down their antennae the local stations were in a panic over losing their advertising dollars. They petitioned for and acquired a mandate from the FCC that cable had to carry their content.

What it all boils down to is this: If TWC didn't have to carry WRGB's SD signal and told WRGB if you don't allow us to provide the free HD signal you are providing OTA then we will not provide your SD signal either, WRGB would be out of business...end of story.

Now before anyone flames me for not mentioning the other local stations, they are not the stations that fired the first shot across the bow of TWC by advising consumers to buy a STB and an antenna in order to see the Super Bowl.

I am not going to spend money on more equipment in order to watch WRGB in HD. As a matter of fact...after watching WRGB long enough to compile a list of advertisers, I won't be watching it in SD either.

WRGB is willing to freely give away their HD content over the air to anyone who wants it, except to those of us who subscribe to cable. WRGB can go to blazes!!!!!

Wordz

Mitsubishi 55411
Yamaha RX-V630
Sony speakers and SUB
TWC


Wordz,

You took the "Wordz" right out of my mouth!! :D

Originally posted by MasterFX1
The FCC has never required HDTV. The FCC only requires 480i. So why should a station invest in converting to full-blown HD if the revenue they generate (and the ratings) is exactly the same?

Full blown HD??? MasterFX1 you must be kidding. Try Half-A#$ed HD!

I would have named it the Pixel Artifact Bowl!

MasterFX1 and BreakStuff...what are you guys smoking?? Were you guys watching the same game?? Half the game looked awful due too much pixilation during fast motion close ups.

MasterFX1...A New Encoder?....Pleeeassse. Post #604 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3287255#post3287255)
WRGB is not giving enough bandwidth for the HD signal due to multi-casting, plain and simple.

Mark another screw-up against WRGB!

WNYT....your next to go in the crosshairs!! :D

While the must-carry law is true, most networks waive their must-carry rights in lieu of a Retransmission Agreement.

So are you saying that WRGB has waived their must-carry rights and that TWC could refuse to provide WRGB in SD? If TWC tried that, WRGB would be un-waiving their rights in a hurry. I was born but I wasn't born yesterday.

While I appreciate and applaud your loyalty to your employer, and I would hire you as an employee for my firm in a heartbeat, I'm afraid WRGB has entered the "digital HD era" with a less than stellar approach. Many HDTV cable subscribers have a very sour taste in their mouth toward WRGB and now that the Superbowl travesty is over, the best PR in the world will not be able to shine WRGB's tarnished image.

That having been said, I will now turn my attention to WNYT. Let's hope that they will not blindly follow the vision impaired WRGB.

Wordz

Originally posted by Wordz
So are you saying that WRGB has waived their must-carry rights and that TWC could refuse to provide WRGB in SD?

Not until the existing analog retransmission contract ends. Cable wouldn't do it anyway, cutting off 5000 people is one thing, cutting off 250,000 is another. Remember, CBS is the most watched ntwork in the country these days... Followed closely by NBC.

Lufters- Full Bandwidth still does not get rid of the video break-ups. As Mark Cuban explained it once, existing compression makes 95% of the video great. But even at Full-Bandwidth, the shots that broke up at reduced bandwidth will usually still break-up. You may get a 2% improvement, but viewers will not notice much improvement. Your gripe is with the encoding manufacturers to make better encoders. I'll be interested to hear your PQ review of the Daytona 500.

Lufters,

I and 20 of my friends watched the game on an 8' screen. Overall, I thought it looked great. Yes, there were a couple of non-HD camera used, and yes, the occasional fast panning shot pixelized, but thats all I noticed. Not one person complained about anything, after they picked their jaws up off the floor. Compared to what most people in the world (and on this forum) were watching, it was awesome. Wish I was watching at the end of Janet's act though :>)

Paul

Originally posted by Wordz
I tried joining (searching for) ShameOnWRGB at MSN but was unable to locate it. Any help would be appreciated.

Wordz


http://groups.msn.com/ShameOnWRGB

That should help ya find it

Originally posted by lufters
Maybe because their not holding me Hostage with the most watched show of the year called the Super Bowl. It's not my fault WRGB is an affilate of CBS.

It sounds like WRGB would be in an equal postion..if not better to make up their "miilions of dollars" in upgrades anyway. Today would have been a great starting point with the digital feed to TWC.

Why aren't WXXA and WTEN complaining about spending millions?? What about MOST of the other locals across the country that have deals in place with the cable companies??

Spending money to upgrade is part of being a TV station...if they don't like it...their definetly in the wrong buisness! I'm sure another company would love to take CBS out of the hands of WRGB and broadcast it locally.


Nuff said!


I agree 100 percent

Originally posted by MasterFX1
The FCC has never required HDTV. The FCC only requires 480i. So why should a station invest in converting to full-blown HD if the revenue they generate (and the ratings) is exactly the same? In all the other markets that CBS is on a cable or sat system in HD, the MSO compensated the provider for the signal. This happens to be one of the few markets in which TWC sees fit to keep fighting... And WRGB is not going it alone, it's the Superbowl that is focusing the attention on CBS affilaites. WNYT also has stated publicly they are having negotiating disputes with TWC. ESPN-HD and TWC cannot reach an agreement either.

WNYT has the Daytona 500 in HD this month. It is the second most watched live televised event of the year... and it's not available from TWC. They also have the Olympics in HD. No one seems to care yet!?! That's becasue the Superbowl is THIS week and that's what viewers care about- right here, right now. So will WNYT become the new whipping boy after next week?

As far as I can tell, the cheapest way to get HD on TWC is to pay around $20/mo. (Broadcast Basic $9 + STB $8 + FCC franchise Fee $3)... That's $240/Year. I plan on watching HD for more than 2 years, so to me, my own OTA-HD box is way cheaper.

Retail stores have a tendendacy to advise consumers they don't want a OTA-HD tuner built-in or STB because they don't want to risk losing a sale over the price; or their inventory is filled with HDTV-no-tuner sets... Or they were MISTAKENLY informed that cable will automatically have all the locals.

TWC charges for advertisements on their cable system, yet cable is not offered for free. Subscibers pay to see content via cable, yet they are still subjected to advertisements on almost all the non-premium channels. Why is OK for the cable company to charge for both content and advertisements, but not a local affiliate?

The real shame is on the viewer who believed that TWC would do what they needed to, and chose not to invest in OTA-HD.

They went beyond the required upgrades PROBABLY because it was cost effecient. I dunno I am not privvy to their books.

The keep saying they requested a nominal amount from TWC - they arent saying what nominal is either.

It isnt retailers that suggested that people buy the sets without tuners it was CONSUMERS! with a hand full of local stations it isnt cost effective for me to purchase a tuner and an antenna as I said in a previous post.



ARE YOU SURE YOU DONT WORK FOR WRGB?????

Originally posted by Wordz
I am not going to spend money on more equipment in order to watch WRGB in HD. As a matter of fact...after watching WRGB long enough to compile a list of advertisers, I won't be watching it in SD either.



Same Here!

After I compile the list I intend to contact every advertiser and explain that I am boycotting them and why.


I'm glad I drink 8 o clock coffee and they dont advertise it

Originally posted by **** WRGB!
My posts were deleted, I'd like an explanation.


WERE YA CUSSIN IN EM?????

Originally posted by MasterFX1
Lufters- Full Bandwidth still does not get rid of the video break-ups. As Mark Cuban explained it once, existing compression makes 95% of the video great. But even at Full-Bandwidth, the shots that broke up at reduced bandwidth will usually still break-up. You may get a 2% improvement, but viewers will not notice much improvement. Your gripe is with the encoding manufacturers to make better encoders. I'll be interested to hear your PQ review of the Daytona 500.

Actually my gripe isn't with the encoding manufactures...it's with WRGB because of their muilticasting.

I wonder what encoder HDNet uses...I watched a NHL game on HDNet the other night and didn't see much of any pixillation...and hockey has much more fast moving closeups than an NFL game would ever have. The HD picture looked like it should.

Maybe WRBG should contact Mark at HDNet to see how HD is really done.....but then again why would WRGB want to do that when they couldn't even squeak out a deal with TWC for a day for most of us HD customers.

Well said! I can't believe how lame WRGB is. HDnet does look better than anything I've seen OTA, and it's through TWC.

TWC sent an email on February 2, 2004 with info about:

HD DVR's (http://albanyhdtv.proboards18.com/index.cgi?board=boxes&action=display&num=1075758085)

and

Monthly cost of HDNet and HDNet Movies (http://albanyhdtv.proboards18.com/index.cgi?board=Lineup&action=display&num=1075758439)

Click the links above for more information.

New Poll: Yes or No answers only please.
Will you pay TWC the $3.95/mo to continue receiving HDnet and HDnet movies?

You can still vote yes or no on the old poll: Are you willing to pay $1 to receive ALL locals in HD.

Please be sure to indicate which poll you are answering.

HDnet: yes
All locals: yes

As of right now, NO to HD NEt. If I'm impressed w/ their programming over the next 2 months, I'll consider it.

I will probably try the HD dvr.

Paul

I'm in for the HD DVR, but NO to HD Net.

Originally posted by MasterFX1
New Poll: Yes or No answers only please.
Will you pay TWC the $3.95/mo to continue receiving HDnet and HDnet movies?

You can still vote yes or no on the old poll: Are you willing to pay $1 to receive ALL locals in HD.

Please be sure to indicate which poll you are answering.


The HD-Net lineup isnt all that enthising therfore I wouldnt pay 395 per month for it.

I have a digital dvr and will swap that for the HD dvr when it comes out.

No I do not want to pay for local HD programming through Time Warner

I'm going to go for yes to both the $1 and the $3.95, especially during hockey season with 3 games (which look phenomenal) a week, baseball later this year and maybe the olympics again in HDNet.

Sorry, make that two games a week...can't type tonight...it's still yes though

Does anyone know whether the 8000HDs will come with DVI ports enabled? I'm hopeful that since the 3250HDs have them enabled, the 8000HDs will as well.

Originally posted by Paul B. Musser
Lufters,
I and 20 of my friends watched the game on an 8' screen. Overall, I thought it looked great.
What! You had a 8 foot screen, 20 friends and didn't invite any of us! :p

On the downside, there were also 16 little children running around my house last night. My wife is a saint!

Log me as a yes on the 8000HD
Undecided on the HDNet (abstained)

Paul-

I am also a front projector owner (Sanyo PLV-Z1) and watched the game on a 92" wide screen (105" diag).. :) I actually stumbled upon your site a long time ago while surfing the RR members webpage directory and was quite impressed with your home theater setup..

Just wondering, what is your other display used for ordinary television viewing?

Originally posted by **** WRGB!
My posts were deleted, I'd like an explanation. Your comments were inappropriate. It's fine to voice an opinion, but insulting comments, name calling, swearing and other immature forms of communication are not tolerated here. Your user name is also out of line and needs to be changed.

Further, this is not a public forum. You agree to comply with specific rules when joining. One of them is not to question Moderator actions on the forum. If you have questions, contact me via AVS Private Message.

breakstuff,
I have the Toshiba TW40x81 (4 years old now) in my living room which is great just watching tv because 480i actaully looks decent on it (not too big), and HD looks fantastic.

Paul

Special Edition of The Lion King
The Wonderful World of Disney
Saturday, February 7 at 8/7c on ABC
In HDTV where available.

Shown locally in HD only on Time Warner Cable channel 1810.

I'm getting a job offer in Saratoga Springs. Is it possible to receive OTA in and around Saratoga Springs? If not, what are my options, living closer to Albany, DirectTV or urghhh cable?

Thanks
Joe

Originally posted by joev
I'm getting a job offer in Saratoga Springs. Is it possible to receive OTA in and around Saratoga Springs? If not, what are my options, living closer to Albany, DirectTV or urghhh cable?

Thanks
Joe

You can check signal strengths at various locations at antennaweb.org

The good news is that with the commutation patterns in Albany you can live in Albany and work in Saratoga and not have to worry about traffic. The same can't be said for the opposite commute.

Originally posted by slayerav
Does anyone know whether the 8000HDs will come with DVI ports enabled? I'm hopeful that since the 3250HDs have them enabled, the 8000HDs will as well. The SA 3250HD thread has a post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3317606#post3317606) that says the DVI port on the SA 8000HD will be enabled in March. However, the person who posted it is from Columbia, South Carolina. I suggest you call Albany TWC and ask if the DVI port is enabled on the 8000HD. They have been testing them for some time now.

There are also some questions related to if the firewire ports will be enabled.

added 7PM 2/3/04

Just got off the phone with TWC.

I asked the CS rep about the DVI port on the 8000HD. He told me that he was a beta tester for the 8000HD and the DVI port was NOT active. TWC expects it to be activated via a software patch in the near future. This is similar to how they rolled out the 3250HD boxes.

He told me that if I wanted, TWC could have the box shipped directly to my house via UPS. I declined because the DVI port was not enabled.

I also asked about the firewire ports that are shown in the user manual (http://albanyhdtv.homestead.com/cableboxuserguides.html). He said that there are different versions of the 8000HD and not all of them come with the firewire ports. Those that do come with them will NOT have them enabled immediately.

added 7:45PM - 2/3/04
In a post on the 3250HD thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3319426#post3319426), "vegggas" stated that at the recent Consumer Electronic Show in Las Vegas, "the 8000 and 8300 were using Serial ATA DVD burners and Serial ATA Drives for expansion and archiving."

I looked over the last few pages and haven't heard anyone mention this in a while. WXXA has been unwatchable for me for about the last week. There are all those veritcal pin stripes.

I tried to watch 24 tonight and it seemed even worse (maybe because widescreen?)

I have the 3100 HD box.

Are others having this problem?

I have the 3250 box... WXXA is all striped on mine as well. Tonight's stripes are different than the stripes when I last watching a couple of nights ago. (Not sure if that is good or bad!)

Originally posted by djw1978
I looked over the last few pages and haven't heard anyone mention this in a while. WXXA has been unwatchable for me for about the last week. There are all those veritcal pin stripes."Hankster" made a post on the AlbanyHDTV Forum (http://albanyhdtv.proboards18.com/index.cgi?board=Lineup&action=display&num=1075727350) regarding this problem.

FOX-DT looks repaired now. Everything seems fine.

Originally posted by MasterFX1
The lead story in yesterdays (Saturday) Gazette was about the stand-off between WRGB and TWC. I do not subscribe to the online edition so I cannot copy paste for you.The entire article is posted at the AlbanyHDTV Forum. (http://albanyhdtv.proboards18.com/index.cgi?board=SuperBowl&action=display&num=1075929946)

I've noticed that MasterFX1 hasn't posted since Monday. I hope it's because he's on vacation and not that he's taken offense to the slings and barbs some on the board have thrown his way.

I, for one, appreciate his insight and insider knowledge that he chose to share with us. I would hate to no longer hear his thoughts.

Good stroke, jpeter1093! There just hasn't been any news yet.

Poll Results:

HDnet/HDnet Movies for $3.95/Mo - 2 Yes, 3 No.

HD-DVR from TWC? - 4 Yes, 0 No.

Originally posted by jpeter1093
I've noticed that MasterFX1 hasn't posted since Monday. I hope it's because he's on vacation and not that he's taken offense to the slings and barbs some on the board have thrown his way.

I, for one, appreciate his insight and insider knowledge that he chose to share with us. I would hate to no longer hear his thoughts.


And I haven't posted recently because I ran out of things to complain about. :cool:


On another note:

MasterFX1...on your Poll..


That's a Maybe....Maybe Not on:

HDnet/HDnet Movies for $3.95/Mo


Maybe....Maybe Not on:

HD-DVR from TWC

:D :D :D :D :D

Originally posted by MasterFX1
The new GM is Bob Furlong. I will post his e-mail when I learn it. Monday's his first day so don't beat him up too bad. Remember, he is inheriting the situation. He is new to the company that owns WRGB and no one knows his feelings on these matters yet. His email address is rfurlong@wrgb.com

You can find the email addresses for all of the local TV & Cable HDTV contacts at AlbanyHDTV.com. (http://albanyhdtv.homestead.com/email_links.html)

Originally posted by MasterFX1
Good stroke, jpeter1093! There just hasn't been any news yet.

Poll Results:

HDnet/HDnet Movies for $3.95/Mo - 2 Yes, 3 No.

HD-DVR from TWC? - 4 Yes, 0 No.

My poll info:

HDNet/HDNET Movies for $3.95/month - NO (the content on it does not justify the price, IMO)

$1/month extra for ALL Local HDTV? YES

HD-DVR? YES (just got mine today)

Obviously the HDVR doesn't do OTA, but I'm not about to pay $900 for the DTV/Tivo HD unit AND have to sub to DTV just to pick up CBS and WNYT (I detest DTV both in their pricing and their customer support). I personally get a MUCH better price deal from TWC. And have had less outages.

However, I will admit that I LOVE my Tivo's (yes I have two of the Series 2 units).

For "average" people the TWC DVR is fine. Remember, I paid $250 EACH for my Tivo's PLUS the $250/lifetime sub EACH (it's now $300), PLUS the $150 for the HMO option (for both units).

Pluses for the Tivo:
You can fastforward/rewind in 15 minute "chunks" (cannot do this on TWC DVR)
Tivo "guide"/search functions are superior to the nasty old TVGuide you gotta use.
Tivo "season pass" is more full featured than TWC (You can specify how many episodes to save, and whether you want first runs, ALL runs, or reruns only).
Easily upgradeable (capacity wise)

AND if you buy the HMO option you can share between units and play music and photos

Minuses:
Expensive.

TWC DVR:
Can record ONE thing while watching another (Standalone Tivo does not have this ability unless you split the signal and then you either end up buying two cable boxes to watch the Digital stuff or suffer with "basic)
No major cash outlay ($4.95/month)
Now does HDTV (again I refuse to pay DTV the equivalent of $90/month to get what I'm getting with TWC for less--plus the $900 for the unit).
No "home media option" (would be a very nice feature to network the sucker)

--kevin

I'll get my 8000HD next week. For those who already have them, is the HD PQ the same as on the 3250? In some places people have noticed a real degradation in the picture on the DVR compared with the regular STB.

I got my 8000HD DVR yesterday and like it so far, this is my first time using DVR services. I just wish as you stated that TWC can change their TV guide though.

RWSimon,

To me the pq is the same compared to my 3250. Recording HD content and playing it back is great. I see no loss of pq.

m_jonis,

How would you compare the noise level between the Tivo and SA 8000? My only complaint with the analog 8000 is how loud it is, even when not in operation.

P

SA 8000 loud???
mine doesn't make a peep

Thats interesting. I can hear the hard-drive spinning up and down all the time. Its in our bedroom so at night it is very distracting. I'm getting my HD version tomorrow, so I'll see if it is any better.

P

My 8000HD doesn't make a peep also

Man, I'm envious. How did you guys get your 8000HDs? Were you on the pre-reserve list and they called/emailed you? Did you call them and they just happened to have one?

I'm on the list and have called a few times. They've always said, it's coming soon, be patient. Well, I'm just as impatient as the rest of us on the board. So spill...how'd you get them?

Originally posted by RWSimon
I'll get my 8000HD next week. For those who already have them, is the HD PQ the same as on the 3250? In some places people have noticed a real degradation in the picture on the DVR compared with the regular STB.

I only had the 3100, so I can only compare it to that.

It seems the same to me.

(using component outputs)

Originally posted by Paul B. Musser
m_jonis,

How would you compare the niose level between the Tivi and SA 8000? My only complaint with the analog 8000 is how load it is, even when not in operation.

P

Tivo #1 is setup with the "regular" cable box. using S-video out from the cable box to S-video into the Tivo, which passes it through to the TV.

To tell you the truth, I've never been able to notice THAT much of a diff. between the S-video and RCA cables. Keep in mind, that in this setup, the cable signal is being converted twice, so there IS some "degradation" of quality. Compared to the component outputs (on my HDTV), I would say that "regular" digital cable is "sharper" on the HDTV (but that may be due to the component cables and/or the inter scalar processor on my Mits. TV)

Tivo #2 is using "pure" cable (no box) and on a sucky old TV that only supports RCA. Picture quality is not as good as Tivo #1 (that TV is newer).

Overall, the pic quality on the HD unit is better, but again, probably due to three things:
Signal from TWC doesn't have to get converted twice through their DVR
Component cables
Mits. HDTV inter-scalar processor

--kevin

Originally posted by jpeter1093
Man, I'm envious. How did you guys get your 8000HDs? Were you on the pre-reserve list and they called/emailed you? Did you call them and they just happened to have one?

I'm on the list and have called a few times. They've always said, it's coming soon, be patient. Well, I'm just as impatient as the rest of us on the board. So spill...how'd you get them?

I think I signed up. PM me and I can have you call the guy I spoke to.

Originally posted by jpeter1093
Man, I'm envious. How did you guys get your 8000HDs? Were you on the pre-reserve list and they called/emailed you? Did you call them and they just happened to have one?I stopped by the Schenectady TWC building on Highbridge Road this afternoon and turned in my 3250HD and got a 8000HD DVR...no questions asked. They gave it to me still packed in the Sci Atl cardboard box. On the way back to the office, I called TWC and cancelled my appointment for them to drop the 8000HD off at my house next week.

By the way, there is a brunette that works behind the desk at the Highbridge Road office that is gorgeous!

Is anyone else having a problem with WMHT's DTV channel this evening? My set says no signal.

Originally posted by Tower Guy
Is anyone else having a problem with WMHT's DTV channel this evening? My set says no signal. I'm not getting a signal, either.

Is WRGB having issues?

No WRGB or UPN (I believe they're on the same antenna?)

WNYT comes in fine.

I watched WRGB last night and I've got an indoor antenna at 75% signal strength.

Anyone else?

Originally posted by m_jonis
Is WRGB having issues?

No WRGB or UPN (I believe they're on the same antenna?)

WNYT comes in fine.No problems with WRGB or UPN here.

Originally posted by m_jonis
Is WRGB having issues?

No WRGB or UPN (I believe they're on the same antenna?)

WNYT comes in fine.

I watched WRGB last night and I've got an indoor antenna at 75% signal strength.

Anyone else?

WRGB have been having major issues with their digital signal for quite awhile now......I'm not getting anything at all........on TWC! :D

I'm getting WRGB just fine. But WMHT is out.

Originally posted by lufters
WRGB have been having major issues with their digital signal for quite awhile now......I'm not getting anything at all........on TWC! :D

LOL!

OK, this is a pretty dumb question, but never having used or owned a DVR... When the 8000HD (for example) is on, I assume it always plays through the hard drive (ie. cable -> disk -> TV). Is this true?

Yes, that is correct.

This was originally posted at AlbanyHDTV.com. (http://albanyhdtv.proboards18.com/index.cgi?board=boxes&action=display&num=1076023459)

I picked up the 8000HD on Friday and finally got a chance to hook the DVI cable up to the back of the 8000HD DVR this morning.

No output at all from the 8000HD DVR via DVI.

Right before I started to hook up the DVI, I noticed that there were four dashes "----" displaying on the 8000HD screen where the time normally displays. The power would not turn on. I called TWC and she sent a "hit" to the box. The time immediately displayed. She said she would make a note of the problem, because they are logging all issues with the 8000HD DVR's.

BTW, I am watching The Lion King right now, which played on ABC last night. The picture is fabulous and the sound is incredible. Too bad those anti-TWC HD users weren't able to enjoy it.

Besides the lack of DVI support, I have yet to find any problems with the 8000HD DVR.

Two minor issues are:

1. You cannot set a "season pass" like on a TiVo. For example, I set the 8000HD DVR to record Sex in the City on HBO HD, but it records ALL the episodes shown including the repeats, not just the new ones. With TiVo, I can set it to record only the "first run" of each episode.

2. It does not record HD programs OTA via my STB. I would like to be able to record the HD versions of the shows on CBS & NBC (when WNYT does remember to "flip the switch" and pass through the HD version of the program). Hopefully, in time, TWC, WNYT, and WRGB will come to an agreement to show the HD programming on TWC.

Originally posted by AlbanyHDTV
This was originally posted at AlbanyHDTV.com. (http://albanyhdtv.proboards18.com/index.cgi?board=boxes&action=display&num=1076023459)

I picked up the 8000HD on Friday and finally got a chance to hook the DVI cable up to the back of the 8000HD DVR this morning.

No output at all from the 8000HD DVR via DVI.

Right before I started to hook up the DVI, I noticed that there were four dashes "----" displaying on the 8000HD screen where the time normally displays. The power would not turn on. I called TWC and she sent a "hit" to the box. The time immediately displayed. She said she would make a note of the problem, because they are logging all issues with the 8000HD DVR's.

BTW, I am watching The Lion King right now, which played on ABC last night. The picture is fabulous and the sound is incredible. Too bad those anti-TWC HD users weren't able to enjoy it.

Besides the lack of DVI support, I have yet to find any problems with the 8000HD DVR.

Two minor issues are:

1. You cannot set a "season pass" like on a TiVo. For example, I set the 8000HD DVR to record Sex in the City on HBO HD, but it records ALL the episodes shown including the repeats, not just the new ones. With TiVo, I can set it to record only the "first run" of each episode.

2. It does not record HD programs OTA via my STB. I would like to be able to record the HD versions of the shows on CBS & NBC (when WNYT does remember to "flip the switch" and pass through the HD version of the program). Hopefully, in time, TWC, WNYT, and WRGB will come to an agreement to show the HD programming on TWC.


Have you noticed any differences in Picture Quality between the 8000HD DVR and the 3250? I've read the PQ is not as good with the 8000 compared to the 3250 and other STB's. Supposedly there are still many glitches to be worked out of the 8000 yet.

I see no differences with my 8000HD compared to my prevoius 3250. Recorded HD looks incredible.

Originally posted by ThePrisoner
I see no differences with my 8000HD compared to my prevoius 3250. Recorded HD looks incredible.

I agree. Well worth the extra $5 a month.

Originally posted by AlbanyHDTV
I agree. Well worth the extra $5 a month.

That's good to hear....I guess the problems could be a locality issue. I may go take the plunge tomorrow and pick one up.

Here are some of the posts I was taking about.......


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3224013#post3224013

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3262271#post3262271

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3330536#post3330536

Lufters, I agree, HD looks just as good to my eyes as the 3250HD I had. The 8000HD doesn't have the Passthrough setting. I'm hoping that comes at some point with a software update but I have my macro until then. The only other thing is that at first I thought the analog channels looked a bit worse with the 8000 than the 3250 but either my eyes are adjusting or the 8000 is breaking in, since they look better now.

My experience in getting the box. I called Saturday morning, the rep said no 8000HDs were available. I told her people I knew (from this forum) were getting them. She said they had a few but were only giving them to people who presently had an HD box...I replied "that's me!" and explained I had the 3250HD. So, she called the Albany TWC office and reserved the (supposedly) only one they had. Of course, I ran right over and grabbed it. Don't forget the special remote (a DVR capable remote) that comes with it.

ThePrisoner,

Who (ISF) Calibrated your TV?
I'm looking to get my Mits done sometime this year after I move.

lufters,

My set was calibrated by Dave Abrams. He is located down in Woodstock but travels to just about everywhere in the country. He has worked miracles on my set. Check out www.avical.com
He has some nice price packages and he loves working on Mitsubishi's. He has tweaked mine on 3 different occasions.

How bad is the Picture Quality on WRGB-DT during the Grammy performances (fast movement) tonight?

I never seen so much pixilation and Macro-blocking in my life. Did anyone check out how obvious it was during the first performance with Prince and Beyoncé. How can't anyone see this?? Maybe because I have a 65" TV??

I'm so done with WRGB after tonight. They can take their Half-A@#ed HD multicast signal and go #$%&!!!!


WRGB....some advice.....watch HDNET and get a clue!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by lufters

WRGB....some advice.....watch HDNET and get a clue!!!!!!!!


I agree, HDnet is awesome. NHL Hockey is flawless:cool:
The NHL All-Star Game on ABC today was also rock solid.

I had Dave Abrams do my Toshiba set 3 or so years ago. Highly recommended. In my limited look at the 8000HD, I haven't noticed any change in PQ from the 3250.
If I get a chance, I'll turn on the Grammys.

Im getting very weak signal from WRGB tonight. Is anyone else?

I usually get > 80% im now getting 53% and less.

Originally posted by ThePrisoner
lufters,

My set was calibrated by Dave Abrams. He is located down in Woodstock but travels to just about everywhere in the country. He has worked miracles on my set. Check out www.avical.com
He has some nice price packages and he loves working on Mitsubishi's. He has tweaked mine on 3 different occasions.

I'll have to look him up. I have a few friends that are looking to get their set calibrated also.

How can't anyone see this?? Maybe because I have a 65" TV??
I also seen alot of pixelization during the 1st performance with Prince and Beyonce.. quality gets better when there is not alot of movement..

For what its worth,pixelation is definately more noticeable on my 100" display and was barely noticeable on my 30"..

Originally posted by lufters
WRGB....some advice.....watch HDNET and get a clue!!!!!!!! Originally posted by ThePrisoner
I agree, HDnet is awesome....and Demi Moore's awesome naked body looked great on HDnet last night, too.

Originally posted by BreakStuff
I also seen alot of pixelization during the 1st performance with Prince and Beyonce.. quality gets better when there is not alot of movement..

For what its worth,pixelation is definately more noticeable on my 100" display and was barely noticeable on my 30"..

Finally I'm not the only one that sees this.

Thanks for your input :cool:

I guess it's a good thing that TWC (and us) don't have to pay WRGB for their HD signal. Given all the problems between them and WNYT, maybe it's a blessing in disguise. (okay, so I'm trying desperately to look on the bright side).

Originally posted by m_jonis
Given all the problems between them and WNYT, maybe it's a blessing in disguise. (okay, so I'm trying desperately to look on the bright side).

LOL!:D

Originally posted by lufters
Finally I'm not the only one that sees this.

Check out the national thread... even full-bandwidth CBS stations had the same exact problems. Stobe light effects have never come out right on anything I have watched in HD - It doesn't matter if it was the Disturbed concert on HDnet, last year's SuperBowl Halftime on TWC 1810, the introductions of a basketball game on ESPN-HD or any live event on WRGB-DT. Strobe effects don't work in HD yet. And quick cuts during extensive lighting effects only synergizes the problem.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=364100

In a story posted at AlbanyHDTV.com (http://www.albanyhdtv.com),

WRGB says: Digital Cable offers more than Satellite (http://www.albanyhdtv.com)

Ironic?

Hey AlbanyHDTV,

Great job with your site, all that hard work is paying off. :)

Maybe you could incorporate a local tv guide with HDTV listings? i.e. titantv..

I called Greg again...he said NBC is not transmitting the HD signal to them.