You can get WJRT from Holt with a silver sensor??????? Either you have a very sensitive receiver or sit on top one mother of a hill. :) I'm 20 miles closer, using a 4-element bowtie (outdoor), and I don't even get a blip from them.

A group of us where I work (2-3 post here occasionally) have a grid on my buddies website about how our reception is where we live and what our signal strength is per channel, the equipment we use, etc. I am not going to link to his site without his permission, BUT... I made up a map (using Microsft Trips software) and posted it on MY server, so I have no problem posting it for you to see:

www . jonrcortright . com/hdtv/hdtvmap.gif

(EDIT: Sorry about that separated link, but apparently I haven't posted here enough to warrant being allowed to post links... the Spam-police-bot flagged me as a potential spammer, I guess... just type the link in manually!)

ANYWAY... the above map has the location of the antennae for all of the HDTV/OTA signals in our area. It really helps giving you a visual of the situation. Well, helped me a lot at least.

Ignore our names and our triangles. When I get the time, I plan on making a comprehensive Michigan map of all of the broadcast towers and where they are physically (without our personal locations) and put it up on my server for all to see. I will post that link here once it is done (well, if the spam-bot LETS me!). Until then, this one should help.

Originally posted by Wooger
When I get the time, I plan on making a comprehensive Michigan map of all of the broadcast towers and where they are physically (without our personal locations) and put it up on my server for all to see. That would be great! I'm sure everyone here would find that handy. :)

Wooger, linkified....

MAP (http://www.jonrcortright.com/hdtv/hdtvmap.gif)

OK, as promised:

Lansing Metro area OTA
h t t p : / / w w w. jonrcortright . com / hdtv / LansingMetro.gif

Grand Rapids/Kalamazoo/Battle Creek/etc.
h t t p : / / w w w. jonrcortright . com / hdtv / GRLanBCJaxKzoo.gif

Detroit Metro
h t t p : / / w w w. jonrcortright . com / hdtv / DetroitMetro.gif

Overall Southern Mid-Michigan
h t t p : / / w w w. jonrcortright . com / hdtv / MidSouthMI_HDTV.gif

Enjoy!

(EDIT: Still on the spam patrol list, until I make 5 posts... You will have to modify the above links)

Lookit that! Post #5!!

OK, NOW we are talking! Here ae the (real) links! (I hope)

Lansing metro area (http://www.jonrcortright.com/hdtv/LansingMetro.gif)

Grand Rapids/Battle Creek/Kalamazoo/etc. (http://www.jonrcortright.com/hdtv/GRLanBCJaxKzoo.gif)

Detroit metro area (http://www.jonrcortright.com/hdtv/DetroitMetro.gif)

and...

Overall Mid-Michigan OTA map (http://www.jonrcortright.com/hdtv/MidSouthMI_HDTV.gif)

:)

Hello, I just moved to Haslett and will be swiching to DirecTv. Does any body have any suggestions as to which OTA will work best for me. I know a couple of people in other states who just tried the square shooter and they work good but I don't know if they will work well here. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys.

I would try a pair of rabbit ears it may be all that you need. Have you checked antennaweb.org?

Yeah I checked it out and it says most channels fall under yellow, only ABC Lansing falls under green so I guess I need a multi-directional amplified antenna? The furthest stations are only 25 miles away. I tried rabbitt ears for analog and I didn't get NBC and Fox barely came in I don't know if that means anything when it comes to picking up digital. Thanks.

I would still use the rabbit ears and see what happens, I would bet you will have no problem with WILX, WLNS and Fox47 you may get 12 as well, my mother in law lived in Haslett and Rabbit ears is all it took.

Besides I havn't heard the greatest things about the square shooter.

From what we read on the official Square Shooter website, it is a directional antenna. While you will not have the supposed 'multipathing' issues of an omnidirectional, you would only be picking up (with a good signal) stations with their broadcasts originating in the direction that you are pointing.

Better to go to Fulton Radio Supply or Radio Shack and get an amplified omnidirectional disc antenna. Note: Do NOT put any splitters between the disc (antenna) and the pre-amp... Because what I THOUGHT was the pre-amp was actually just the power supply sending voltage upstream to the ACTUAL pre-amp, INSIDE THE DISC!!! This is true for both the Weingard (Fulton) and the RS omnis (I think). So, just a straight shot from the power supply to the antenna... after the power supply, split away!

Hope this helps!

I see that WLAJ is shown on Wooger's map, but they aren't broadcasting yet. Or did it miss that announcement? Also, what's on 12? I don't think I'm getting anything there.

Jules -- I have a spare silver sensor antenna if you want to borrow that to see what you get. I suspect it would do a better job than an omnidirectional or rabbit ears.

Do most of you guys use an amplifier with your antenna? I never have and I'm wondering if that's a mistake. I use a 4221A Channel Master 4-bay bow, roof-mounted, which is supposed to have about a 45 mile range. But, I only get WSYM, WLNS, WILX, and sometimes WZPX. I don't get even a blip from any other station.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chris White
I see that WLAJ is shown on Wooger's map, but they aren't broadcasting yet. Or did it miss that announcement? Also, what's on 12? I don't think I'm getting anything there.
12 is ABC from the chesaning area (west of Flint)

You should try an amp on the antenna, you could probally get 12 and lock better on 44. If it doesn't help just return it...

Thanks for all your help guys. Chris, I might take you up on that offer. One more question though. If I do use an outdoor antenna is it better to hook up the antenna directly to the tuner or can I run it through a multiswitch? I have heard that the multiswitch can compromise the picture quality. Thanks.

Chris: Channel 53 (and 18) are definitely NOT on the air HD yet... they are certainly dragging their heels on it.

I am picking up TV-12s HD (ch. 36) as it is my only choice for ABC HD programming. They also have some neat stuff going on with their side channels... 12.1 = 720p ABC feed, but 12.2 = 480i digital secondary feed of SOME (non-ABC) network (WB? UPN?) and 12.3 is their local weather radar feed!

Jules: Multiswitch = splitter. As I said earlier, do NOT place the splitter/multiswitch between the omnidirectional power supply and the actual antenna unit (the 'disc') as you will not allow the pre-amp in the disc to get it's power, a mistake I made initially.

As for AFTER the power supply (aka: 'downstream') you will likely lose SOME reception but it depends on how much. Porbably not enough to notice, but... you won't really know until you get 'er up there!

WARNING: The Weingard "Omnidirectional" antenna isn't really... It is more of a "Multi-Directional" antenna. I live just a few miles away from the WLNS antenna and so when I was putting it up initially, I tried to key off of my worst signal, WILX, and optimize the reception for them, figuring I would get WLNS regardless... WRONG! Not even a blip! I had to go back up and twist the antenna (AWAY from WILX's optimum reception, btw) to get WLNS. So the Radio Shack multi might be a better buy for you. The Weingard WORKS, don't get me wrong, but... there are definite 'dead spots' to it. I mean, if I live 5-6 miles from a station and cannot pick it up with it twisted a certain way, I cannot honestly call that antenna an "omnidirectional" and keep a straight face! Envision two bowties crossing in the middle... I am guessing I just happened to find that sweet spot where the two intersected I guess... I HAVE opened up a Radio Shack omni btw and seen how it is configured. It has a hexagonal pattern (3 pairs of bowties, sort of). Less dead spots. Just fyi.

Unfortunately, I don't get anything at all on Channel 36. Perhaps my CM4221 is too directional. I'm currently aimed at about 240 degrees (between WILX and WLNS) which would put Flint off the backside of the antenna. Or, the signal is there but I would need a preamp to get it. Or, my tuner card (ADTV) just isn't sensitive enough. Whatever it is, I can't get it.

I record everything and watch it later, so I didn't discover until last night that Frasier on Tuesday and both West Wing and L&O on Thursday were not broadcast in HD. I'm pretty sure the network broadcast was in HD, so WILX is either having a problem with their HD equipment or the engineer forgot to throw the switch. Anybody know?

I use a Televes DAT75 highly directional w/ CM rotator and a Fusion HDTV II card, and pick up WJRT DT 36 at 72% signal strength. Since I get WOTV DT 20 at 99%, I really don't worry much about WJRT.

I just read on antennaweb that WLAJ (ch51) is there any truth to this?

Not that I've been able to determine. Antennaweb has had it wrong for some time. I suspect that they'll also talk about it on their website when they're closer.

Originally posted by Wooger
Lansing Metro area OTA
h t t p : / / w w w. jonrcortright . com / hdtv / LansingMetro.gif

Are those right? Looking at channels 47 and 53. I know where the studios are ... 47 on St. Joe and 53 on Penn. Are the towers really that far south of Lansing?

Hi all,

Has anyone been having problems receiving WLNS lately? It came in fine last night during the Grammys and this afternoon for the Young and the Restless but I can't seem to pick it up at all now, nor did I pick it up on Friday night.

I live in East Lansing, and according to antennaweb, I am only 4.7 miles from them. Also strangely, I don't pick up MSU's PBS station, WKAR, even though I am even closer to them.

My setup is kind of strange; I live in an apartment complex with cable feeds from ECI wireless cable in Haslett. My Samsung SIRT151 OTA tuner is hooked up to a splitter from the coax feed that I use for my regular cable. I think that either a) ECI simply retransmits the OTA signal piggyback on their cable feed or b) that they have an antenna on the roof of my apartment complex that is capable of receiving the HD signal. I mention this because I don't have access to the antenna to see if there is a problem with it. I tried to use a standard UHF antenna I had laying around to no avail; my main problem there is that I am on the second floor with Northern exposure, and I can't get Western exposure to check the signal. (I went out on my balcony with the antenna and a long piece of coax, but I didn't get any signal for WKAR or WLNS.)

Through the jack, I currently receive WLNS (cbs), WILX (nbc), WJRT (abc), WSYM (fox), and WKBD (upn). Well, I recevie WLNS sometimes, anyway. =)

So, anyone else not getting WLNS tonight?

Have you guys noticed that Monday night Los Vegas (WILX) is not HD since last couple weeks. Network is sending HD feed, seems to me, WILX is not broadcasting. :confused:

Addendum: I just checked the HD Programming section - NBC has been feeding SD. No fault of WILX.

Yeah, my rule is not in HD, not worth watching, too much other good HD out there.


In case anyone is between Lansing and Detroit as I am, you should know that WDWB --WB Network-- is now in HD on 21-1 and SD on 21-2. I'm getting a decent signal up here in Flushing, others should be too. Everwood looked great last night, I'm really waiting to see Smallville and Angel on WED. BTW this makes 16HD/DT OTA channels for me!

Funny, little WB can get their act together but big old GE can't!

Chris White

I wanted to put up new antenna when I purchased my RCA, DTC-100 in April of 2001. Living in Eaton Rapids I also figured a amp would be in order as at that time only WLNS and WOOD (7) was broadcasting off air. I had always preferred channel master and from a few topics here wanted to go with their Quantum 1162 VHF/UHF, but it was already being discontinued even though it was one of there best sellers. I found it at Purchase Radio in Ann Arbor. Purchase Radio Supply
327 East Hoover
Ann Arbor, MI 48104
Phone: (734) 668-8696
Phone Number 2: 0
At the time they had about six of them. I love it and its streamline appearance. I also purchased the 0100 Pre-Amp that was made for it. I replaced all bolts and screws with s.s. and used a cold galvanize spray on the new tri-pod. I also installed an attenuator for the power supply to pre-amp.
Picked up GR, Kazoo, Battle Creek, and Lansing area with no problem. Even survived the Tornado's two years ago; had to re-install it. It is a little like the Crossfire 3671 but much better looking. Fairly long, about 104" I believe. I figured if I had to much power I could adjust it down with attenuator for closer stations but have left it about right in the middle.
Anyway hope this helps a little. What is nice is that I also purchased channel master's rotor with IR remote before they discontinued it so now have all stations and antenna settings programed into my Pronto with icons, so changing stations off air, or satellite is a macro away. Very cool!
Good luck and I also have a indoor antenna that you could try, its not the sensor but a Terk25 I believe. Been a while since I had it in the system.
Well take care and lets hope our local ABC affiliate gets cracking.

John

Originally posted by deising1
Also strangely, I don't pick up MSU's PBS station, WKAR, even though I am even closer to them.
I tried for the first time to pick them up tonight without success. I'm near Hell. I'm hopeful that WKAR can fill the void that the dorks at the FCC created when they overlapped signals for WTVS-DT :rolleyes:

JP, nice setup. Hopefully when this snow gets of my roof in the spring I'll do something similar.

If any of you care , WLAJ claims they will be online 3-15 to 4-1

Wow! That's great news. I only wish WHTV would now jump onboard for a UPN affiliate. But at least with WLAJ's entry, all of the major networks are available without having to go out of market.

WKAR DT was not on air last night, also noticed they were absent this morning. Bout time WLAJ makes appearance. I have been using WOTV DT for ABC programs.

Does anyone know if WKAR has been consistently/mostly operational (with last night being an exception), or are they on and off as they get settled into their new digs? Just curious because it would be great to have a PBS-HD OTA signal that doesn't stutter every 3-4 seconds, and their tower is actually closer to me than is WTVS.
Thanks!

Man E, as far as I know they have been operational right along. Only problem with WKAR is that they only pass the National feed at the moment. There are a few things there I like but I much prefer some of the other stuff like Soundstage that is done locally. I saw it once or twice on WTVS, when WZPX was down or something and I enjoyed it. WKAR will have the capability soon from what I've heard.

How's WDWB coming in down over there?

I only flipped past WDWB last night. I got a picture that was pretty choppy, but I was moving the rotor all over the place trying to lock WKAR so I can't really say how well I pull it in. I rarely watch them, but it is nice to have it there for those occations when they have something I like.

Now that I think about it a bit more, they must be pretty strong because my Unity Motion picked them up off of the backside of the antenna while I was scanning Lansing. It does that for others in the Detroit area too, but only the strongest ones.

No signs of WKBD or WDWB here in Holt but the towers are 62 miles away. I've picked up WKBD before but usually only late evenings or during unusual weather conditions. I figure about 55 miles is the limit for my antenna. I guess WZPX is my only source of WB programming OTA at the moment. Do they actually show anything in HDTV? Titan shows that Angel, One Tree Hill, and Everwood are broadcast in HDTV at 7:00pm but I've never actually checked. I still have the no sound issue on all but their first subchannel so they get skipped over most of the time.

[edit 2/18] WZPX got their sound issue fixed Monday. They don't however appear to broadcast anything in HDTV.[/end edit]

And I guess WXSP is the only UPN affiliate I can get unless WHTV ever goes online. WXSP only does SDTV so doesn't really count. Has anybody heard what WHTV's schedule is for digital deployment?

Originally posted by Man E
Does anyone know if WKAR has been consistently/mostly operational (with last night being an exception), or are they on and off as they get settled into their new digs? Just curious because it would be great to have a PBS-HD OTA signal that doesn't stutter every 3-4 seconds, and their tower is actually closer to me than is WTVS.
Thanks! For me it's been rock steady, but then again, I live about 12 blocks from the MSU campus. :)

Originally posted by action000
Are those right? Looking at channels 47 and 53. I know where the studios are ... 47 on St. Joe and 53 on Penn. Are the towers really that far south of Lansing?

Yes, I am pretty sure. Check this link:

http://www.michiguide.com/dials/tv.html

Pick a station and clink the INFO link.

This is pretty typical for TV and radio. If there are multiple markets (metro areas) in a general area and the station can deliver city-grade signals to all of the markets (by placing the antenna in a common area in between) they will try to maximize their "market penetration" by placing their antenna there. Notice the GR antenna cluster, trying to cover GR, BC, and Kzoo. Lansing stations atr trying to cover Lansing and Jackson similarly.

[EDIT: EXCEPT FOR WLNS!!! OOPS!!! I thought, since I lived down the road from them and pas the tower almost daily, I knew where they were... WRONG! They broadcast out of Williamston. Their tower behind their studios is NOT their transmitting studios! To be fixed soon!]

Lansing map corrected for REAL WLNS-TV 6 [59] broadcast tower location (D'OH!)

http://www.jonrcortright.com/hdtv/LansingMetro2.gif

...sorry about that! Thanks to those that corrected me!

Does anyone know if WKAR has been consistently/mostly operational

I haven't watched much WKAR, but every time I've checked they've been there with a rock solid signal.

I also have a indoor antenna that you could try, its not the sensor but a Terk25 I believe

Thanks J.P. I have a silver sensor and it can't begin to compete with the CM4221 I have on the roof. I believe the only way I would probably get the ABC station in Flint is to put up a large yagi and use a rotor. There isn't a single program I watch on ABC (other than MNF), so I'm not sufficiently motivated to do that.

EXCEPT FOR WLNS!!! They broadcast out of Williamston.

Actually, I think they are in Okemos.

An observation --- I've decided the engineer at WLNS must be in a big hurry to get home at night. He manages to flip the switch from HD to SD with a minute or two left in the program each night at 10pm.

Chris, I've noticed that for years, has to be automated. I can't believe that at 2 miunites to the hour without fail, it goes to SD. Weird.

It is automated as I have spoke with him on the phone about that very issue. You would think it would be automated to turn on at 7:59, but wrong. Its better now but I don't know how many times I have called the station at 8:05 or later and asked them to flip the switch. This was an ongoing problem a couple of years ago. What can I say. At least WKAR really listens and is doing their utmost. I wish all affiliates were as attentive and dedicated. Thanks guys. Looking forward to the 500.

John

I agree...wlns is bad. I've also caught WSYM 47 doing it too right before minight instead of waiting until programming is done.

O.k. so everyone here is talking about HDTV with antenna's? Does anybody know anything about Comcast? When? Available channels at launch? I think I heard about a month away.. for Holt.

Originally posted by tbadour
O.k. so everyone here is talking about HDTV with antenna's? Does anybody know anything about Comcast? When? Available channels at launch? I think I heard about a month away.. for Holt. Well, yeah, since that is pretty much the only way we've been able to get it so far! I've asked for Comcast to notify me when it does become available, but haven't heard anything so far. Personally, I'm not too concerned. I can already get ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, and PBS in HD (OTA) for free, and I'm pretty sure HD cable won't come cheap. I already pay $38 for just standard cable (not counting my cable modem) so I'd say they get enough of my money!

Using an antenna isn't really a bad way to go. Heck if WLAJ would just get off their asses, I could leave mine pointing South all the time instead of having to rotate it towards Chesening every Sunday to get Alias. :)

anybody know anything about Comcast?

We've got Millennium in Williamston. Their cable isn't good enough to provide a decent analog signal so I'm sure they won't have hdtv any time soon.

Well just got my Comcast HDTV beta installed today....
GREAT PICTURE !!!

Only five channels right now..... Installer said I was last to get in under beta. He said it would be at least another month or better before its available in the Lansing market. Kinda surprised to get the 6200 Motorola.

I thought WLNS had made some progress in fixing their audio problems, but Navy NCIS on Tuesday night had so many dropouts, I gave up and watched it off the Replay. I ruled out the problem being at my end because (1) the signal strength was steady and over 90% and (2) Law & Order SVU played without any dropouts.

Completely unrelated....

Is it time to start a new thread? Perhaps srgilbert would like to kick off the official Lansing area 2004 thread.

If someone does start a new Lansing thread, please cross-post a link to it here... I have this thread bookmarked and not much else from AVS. :)

I would have to wade through all the other posts to find it.

Thanks in advance!

What was up with ER's sound on WILX tonight. Sounded like dual stereo during the show, but the local inserts were front channel only. During the show I was getting sound out of all 5 speakers. I'm not aware of NBC doing 5.1, so I think it was something the station was doing. Didn't sound bad, just not quite right. I was too lazy to switch over to WDIV-DT from Detroit, so I don't know if it was WILX or NBC's doing.

BTW, next weeks tank scene was filmed in front of my cousin's apt. A few weeks ago on a Sunday afternoon, she woke up from a nap to see a tank gong down her street crushing cars, she quickly got out of there...

As of last week we have been receiving WEYI standard and HD, which helps when Wilx cuts out due to weather. WEYI HD Programming is on 30-2 BTW don't ask me why.

We are the most happy with WKAR we watch many programs we would have never viewed now that they are broadcasting in HD. Last night we watched "desert speaks" and some travel show and both were magnificently produced programs.

I guess that shows just how well WEYI has trained me NOT to watch them, it didn't even cross my mind to tune into them rather than WILX or WDIV. I've always thought of them as an also ran in a third rate market. It was just a few years ago when I asked if their analog signal would ever pass stereo sound from the network, and I was told they didn't think it was necessary, BTW analog is still mono to the best of my knowledge...

Five posts back, I said, "I thought WLNS had made some progress in fixing their audio problems."

Mea culpa!!! I've discovered that even though the signal strength for WLNS is very good (always >90%), the reason I'm getting constant audio dropouts is signal drop. It varies from night to night, but if I watch it long enough, the signal will occasionally bounce down to zero.

The WLNS tower is only 6 miles from me, so the only reason I can give for the bouncing signal is multipath interference. For those not familiar, multipath happens when signals bounce around between buildings, or other large obstructions. This bounce causes a reflection and the receiver tries to lock onto the original signal as well as the reflection.

What I don't understand is why I'm getting multipath interference. I don't have any big trees or buildings (except my house of course) near the antenna. I have an absolute clear line of sight between my antenna and the tower. Perhaps the signal is just shooting over my antenna.

Chris: I have always had the same problem as you mention with WLNS. Also now have that problem with WKAR. I live in the Waverly - Jolly Road area. It depends on different atmospheric conditions on the seriousness of the dropouts. My way around it is to turn the outdoor antenna in exactly the opposite direction and it catches the signal without glitches until of course the atmosphere again changes. I'm using DTC100, which is the oldest of oldest receiver. The newer ones are better at discriminating, I believe, but waiting for the casper chip before buying another receiver.

Chris where are you in relation to the airport? Are you in a flight path? Since I'm dealing with weaker signal, over 50+ miles, I really notice when a plane is in the area. I live near a small private airfield and often notice dropouts when I hear a plane overhead. Something to think about...

Chris where are you in relation to the airport?

25 miles away

Are you in a flight path?

I sure don't think so.

Oh well, it was worth a shot. I get great signal levels on both Lansing and Detroit stations, Lansing in the mid to high 90's and Detroit mostly in the 80's on my RCA. Due to my location most of my Detroit stations have to cross over Bishop Airport and for some reason every night at about 9:08 PM my Detroit stations have drop outs, that is the only thing I can think of that would be that time specific.

My location is just west of Eaton Rapids and I still have audio drop outs on WLNS. My DTC-100 shows 88-90 but it still happens. Usually a clear night.
I have also been experiencing audio drops on ESPN-HD, basketball with *D*. I hope it is resolved by tomorrow night!! GO STATE!!!

Since my Zenith C32V37 won't be here until Saturday..... My son and I are going to the game in Ann Arbor. GO BLUE!!!! Helps that my sister works there and can get me tickets. No public ticket sales.. too bad State fans! LOL!

Can't wait to check out the HD content in town. Hoping to pick up ABC out of Flint for the Oscar's Sunday. Is that possible with the Zenith(suposedly good tuner) and a Silver Sensor? See that WLAJ-DT is still in the "testing" phase. Their web site is pretty useless.

Still haven't found anywhere around here to pick up a Channel Master 7775 Amplifier. Anyone know where I can pick one up in the Lansing Area? Is that a good move with the Silver Sensor?

Am a little worried with Cap City Airport just a few miles away. But only on the flight path for a few small planes and occasionaly a big one in really abnormal wind conditions.

Tx

Originally posted by VIVOtheFURY
Since my Zenith C32V37 won't be here until Saturday..... My son and I are going to the game in Ann Arbor. GO BLUE!!!! Helps that my sister works there and can get me tickets. No public ticket sales.. too bad State fans! LOL!

Can't wait to check out the HD content in town. Hoping to pick up ABC out of Flint for the Oscar's Sunday. Is that possible with the Zenith(suposedly good tuner) and a Silver Sensor? See that WLAJ-DT is still in the "testing" phase. Their web site is pretty useless.

Still haven't found anywhere around here to pick up a Channel Master 7775 Amplifier. Anyone know where I can pick one up in the Lansing Area? Is that a good move with the Silver Sensor?

Am a little worried with Cap City Airport just a few miles away. But only on the flight path for a few small planes and occasionaly a big one in really abnormal wind conditions.

Tx

Your best bet for ABC is 12 out of Flint (36-1) or WOTV out of battle creek area. Most lansing people can get 12 with a decent antenna, not sure if the silver sensor will grab it. WLAJ is a joke, I don't believe anyone on here thinks they are actually testing.

Hey what was up with WKAR-DT Wed. night? I was looking forward to the concert for George in HD, but sound broke up a few times early on, was out of sync, then gone all together never to return. The SD feed on 55-4 was fine.

Originally posted by Matt L
Hey what was up with WKAR-DT Wed. night? I was looking forward to the concert for George in HD, but sound broke up a few times early on, was out of sync, then gone all together never to return. The SD feed on 55-4 was fine. Yeah, I've been noticing that sort of thing alot ever since they took control of the feed and added the SD channel. Sound seems alright, but the picture has been really jerky and stuttering, I couldn't watch it at all last night. They are re-running the concert on Sunday and next Tuesday, so hopefully it will be cleared up.

Anyone have any inside info on what is causing this and if/when it will be corrected? It doesn't do it all the time, but enough to really be trying.:confused:

Dropped a note to Tim at WKAR, here's his response:

Matt- Gary B. and one of our transmitter ops have had no luck pinpointing the cause
of the intermittent audio problem you mentioned. They are working on it.

It would help if you continue to send us any further info on HD signal
problems (if any) you encounter on WKAR-DT.

Please pass this along to any other HD viewers you come in contact with. If
others are experiencing reception problems on WKAR-DT but don't let us
know about them, we can't fix them.

Thanks for taking the time to write.


Tim

And this from Gary:
Thanks for you comments about the problems with reception last
night.

We're not sure at this point what was, or to some extent, is wrong
with the signal. We're looking for possible problems in our encoder
system, the microwave, or the transmitter itself.

We're seeing intermittent video hits and synchronization errors on
both our HD and SD services. We are working to isolate the
problem so that we can fix it, but I can't really say we have gotten
to the bottom of it yet.

By the way, what does "others have mentioned....problems"
mean?




So, I guess if you are noticing problems please froward your concerns to Tim or Gary at WKAR

Originally posted by Matt L
So, I guess if you are noticing problems please froward your concerns to Tim or Gary at WKAR I thought of that, but in some weird way, I didn't want to seem ungrateful by complaining! :o

Good point. Their signal has seemed weaker to me over the past couple of weeks, but they're still immeasurably better than WLAJ. ;)

Another big problem is the presence of the subchannel :rolleyes: I'm watching a show about glass blowing and any fast motion or complex scenes pixilate the heck out of the display. It's just really stupid to run HD and an SD subchannel.

I guess I'll send an email to Gary on Monday. Ever since WKAR added the SD subchannel, it's like they cut their power in half. Whereas the signal used to be rock solid, now it's much weaker, with frequent audio/video dropouts. I was really looking forward to watching Beautiful America tonight. There is a dropout of the audio and video signal (with pixelation) every few seconds. These dropouts make the show unwatchable. I was planning to record [i]Concert for George[/b] tomorrow night, but there's probably no reason to.

Hmmm, I'm not having any problems here and you're a lot closer... I wonder if it's a tuner issue. RCA here.

Hmmm indeed. Anybody else watching WKAR last night?

Originally posted by tbadour
Well just got my Comcast HDTV beta installed today....
GREAT PICTURE !!!

Only five channels right now..... Installer said I was last to get in under beta. He said it would be at least another month or better before its available in the Lansing market. Kinda surprised to get the 6200 Motorola.

So ... assuming Comcast doesn't have you on NDA, what're your results?

Chris, I tuned in WKAR for a bit tonight, Monday, and had no problems. Are you consistently seeing those problems?

I'll have to check again tonight Matt. I know have some multi-path issues receiving WLNS, but I didn't think that was the problems with WKAR because the signal quality meter isn't bouncing up and down like it does with multi-path. When I was getting the dropouts, the signal actually looked pretty steady. Who knows? Maybe my antenna is just in a really bad spot.

We've had some pretty high winds of late, maybe your antenna got bumped? Do you have a rotor?

You might have been near your noise floor originally. When they added the SD crudannel it may have eclipsed the floor (which fluctuates) for the HD channel (which would now have less information).

Any more news on this since it's now 3/15? They're last FCC extension would be up around 4/20.


Originally posted by steamboat
If any of you care , WLAJ claims they will be online 3-15 to 4-1

Hello all,
I just got my HD going these past couple of days.
I have a question.:
I watched the NASCAR race yesterday on 47-1. The picture filled my widescreen tv, looked great, but I don't believe it was HD. Is that what is called ED? Regardless, it looked a ton better than viewing it on my widescreen via cable. The 5.1 sounded great.

Yes, FOX does ED. they are in a transition to true HD, looks like 6 months to a year before they are done with the updates. ED is considered DVD quality, good but not quite HD.

Anyone know if WLNS will be broadcasting more than one game for the tourney? I sent them an email, but I didn't get a reply.

Originally posted by mlcarson
Any more news on this since it's now 3/15? They're last FCC extension would be up around 4/20.
They now claim it will be up and running by 4-23

Originally posted by Egret
Anyone know if WLNS will be broadcasting more than one game for the tourney? I sent them an email, but I didn't get a reply.

Just the last weekend of games (Final Four)... 2 semifinal and one final game. The buggers. Like they couldn't wheel the cameras out to just ONE of the many sites for a "featured" game earlier? Bah!

WWJ-DT CBS Detroit did multi cast 4 different games, but as nice as it was to have a choice, they all look like crap. 4 video feeds with lots of action just doesn't make it with the bandwidth alloted.

Originally posted by Man E
Another big problem is the presence of the subchannel :rolleyes: I'm watching a show about glass blowing and any fast motion or complex scenes pixilate the heck out of the display. It's just really stupid to run HD and an SD subchannel.

The FCC rules require WKAR-DT to simulcast WKAR-TV 50% of the time that we are on the air. Starting April 1st WKAR-DT is required to simulcast WKAR-TV 75% of the day.

Since the vast majority of WKAR-TV programming is in standard definition, the only way we can bring you as much HDTV as we can (18 hours a day at this point) is to do multicasting of the HD and SD channels.

The alternative is to do like most of the commercial stations seem to be doing: just upconvert the SD signal and switch to HD for the few programs that are available in HD. We choose to bring you as much HD as we could, even though it meant dropping the bit rate from 16.5 to 13.3.

Probably around May 1st we'll be looking at a couple of changes. Our satellite receivers will then be capable of converting the PBS 1080i signal to 720p. And, our encoder manufacturer, Tandberg, should release the variable bit rate option for our encoders, which when implemented will allow us to dynamically allocate bits between our SD and HD services.

Gary,

Thanks so much for enlightening us on this situation. To the uninformed, it seemed like a strange arrangement. I am glad to hear WKAR is working so hard to utilize the HD technology. Can't wait to see more content in 720p, as well.

Gary, have you talked with Helge at WTVS? That is exactly what they are trying at the moment, since I can't get them I cannot comment on how it looks, but I have no complaints with ABC's 720p, looks great to me.

Thanks for all your efforts, glad to see you here....

Anyone else not picking up WLNS? The signal crapped out on me during the basketball games.:(

Gone for me too.

I got no picture starting late in the second half of the GT/KU game. According to my receiver, I was getting a signal, but like I said, there was no picture.

Originally posted by Geordon
Can't wait to see more content in 720p, as well.

I don't know if I should be happy about this or not. My Toshiba does 1080i or 540p. Any ideas?

Your Toshiba will scale the 720p to 1080i Adrian.

Some one was beta-testing Comcast HD cable in the Lansing area. Any ETA to go live and pricing? Thanks.

Hi Usg,

Beta testing is now complete with Comcast. Hdtv is now available in the Lansing area market. The monthly charge is $5.00 per month added to digital cable. The HDTV box I received was the Motorola 6200. Right now only 5 channels Espnhd, Inhdtv1, Inhdtv2, Hbohd, and Showtimehd. They are suppose to be adding more channels very soon!!

Originally posted by Adrian D
I don't know if I should be happy about this or not. My Toshiba does 1080i or 540p. Any ideas?

I'd suspect that your Toshiba will convert 720p as necessary to display the signal.

Originally posted by tbadour
Hi Usg,

Beta testing is now complete with Comcast. Hdtv is now available in the Lansing area market. The monthly charge is $5.00 per month added to digital cable. The HDTV box I received was the Motorola 6200. Right now only 5 channels Espnhd, Inhdtv1, Inhdtv2, Hbohd, and Showtimehd. They are suppose to be adding more channels very soon!!

Thanks TBadour!
I believe only Basic subscription is required to get the HD, right? Is Motorola 6208 is available too (probably at $10/month)? Thanks.

USG

WKAR is now transmitting the PBS HD channel (23-1) in 720p.

Please let me know what you think about it.

Thank you.

Since 720p is the least common and 1080i is the most common resolution among all rear-projection hd-capable televisions, why would WKAR make this change Gary?

Garybliev,

Great news. Question: What's your current power level at (digital)? I'm quite a distance north of E. Lansing but I can get your analog broadcast quite nicely with my setup...and hoping I can pick up your digital signal.

Hey guys,

Brand new to the East Lansing area, house was supposed to be built and done in Feb, here it is April 7th and I sit in a hotel in East Lansing (at least they have internet here)...

HOPING to get a temp occupancy permit on Friday so they can at least move our stuff in and come in to do the phone and cable tv / internet (Comcast).

Cross your fingers for me the tv arrives safely, for now everything is in a truck in storage till we have the OK & permits to move in, I HATE moving my 65 inch mitsu, so much for that $$ spent on the ISF visit UGHHH...

My main questions are these, (and I will be reading thru the many threads here over the next few days so slap me with the silly stick if these are already answered).

I will be in the upper East Lansing area by The Falcon golf course at a newly renamed property called Falcon Pointe (State and Abbott is the biggest intersection nearby).

Based on that info, (don't laugh) but how close am I and what direction should I be aiming my antenna at for my Local OTA digital stuff???

I have a radioshack 80' boom antenna (http://www.radioshack.com/searchsku.asp?find=15-2152) and was hoping if I installed that in my garage's attic that I could still pull in the local HD stuff? It will go in the garage attic to keep my wife happy cosmetics wise - she always hated seeing my antenna at the other house.

Secondly, to anyone with Comcast in East Lansing, how far away are they from running HD thru the cable lines? When I called for hookup they said soon, but heck when I came from Chicago I was told soon for the year + that I lived there and when I moved it was still in BETA, then I moved to Indiana for a year and again was told SOON (was in beta) and recently moved and they were also still in beta after a year hehe...

Anyways hoping the house is done soon and the tv arrives safely, and once I get that antenna up hoping things are closeby enough that my antenna mounted in the peak of my garage will pull the signals in well enough.

Bill :)

Gary, initial looks seems OK, I think the key will be when something with more action is on. 720p looks fine on ABC for me, but WXYZ runs only radar and weather cam on sub's, I have no way of measuring the bandwidth.

how long have you been powering down at night? Seems I used to tune in late before, website indicates programming on 55-3 in the AM, but you were powered down when I tuned in, as was ch 23. Is it budget, or are you working on transmitter?

Originally posted by Chris White
Since 720p is the least common and 1080i is the most common resolution among all rear-projection hd-capable televisions, why would WKAR make this change Gary?

ABC is using 720p. Fox will be using 720p.

We are experimening with 720p right now. Basically, as I mentinoned before, to be able to do an HD and SD at the same time, we have to bit rate reduce the signal coming to us from PBS. PBS sends the video to us at about 16.5 mpbs. We are decoding then re-encoding at 13.3 mbps.

We noticed some blocks during high motion intervals that looked like we may be bit rate starving the picture.

It is our hope that because the progressive signal is easier for an encoder to properly encode, that we won't see as much blocks.

Thus far, to us, it is looking pretty good. The only blocks we've seen outgoing we've also seen incoming from PBS.

It does however look like there may be a bit of resolution loss.

So, it's an experiment. Let us know how it looks to you. Frankly many of the viewers on this forum have better viewing equipment that we.

Originally posted by GenoV
Garybliev,

Great news. Question: What's your current power level at (digital)? I'm quite a distance north of E. Lansing but I can get your analog broadcast quite nicely with my setup...and hoping I can pick up your digital signal.

Our power level is 56kw ERP. This is the power level assigned to us by the FCC. By way of comparison, WLNS was assigned 1,000kW.

We have viewers as far away as Midland to the North East and Hillsdale to the south.

Originally posted by FTLOSM


Based on that info, (don't laugh) but how close am I and what direction should I be aiming my antenna at for my Local OTA digital stuff???


Secondly, to anyone with Comcast in East Lansing, how far away are they from running HD thru the cable lines? When I called for hookup they said soon, but heck when I came from Chicago I was told soon for the year + that I lived there and when I moved it was still in BETA, then I moved to Indiana for a year and again was told SOON (was in beta) and recently moved and they were also still in beta after a year hehe...



Bill :) [/B]

Check with http://www.antennaweb.org type in your zip code and they will present to you a list of stations you should be able to receive along with directions to those stations.

I'm not in Comcast's area, so, I can only provide heresay evidence. Reportedly Comcast is up with some HD services, but none of the local broadcasters are yet on the digital tier.

Originally posted by Matt L


how long have you been powering down at night? Seems I used to tune in late before, website indicates programming on 55-3 in the AM, but you were powered down when I tuned in, as was ch 23. Is it budget, or are you working on transmitter?

The DTV transmitter hours closely match the analog broadcast day. We sign both on at 7AM M-F and 8AM Sat-Sun. Signoff is typically at midnight, except that if an HD program would extend beyond midnight we will turn the transmitter off earlier to avoid chopping a program off in progress.

We're looking at having the DTV transmitter on 24x7 but that probably won't be until May or June after we get a remote control system that can allow us to comply with the FCC's rules for unattended operation.

Hello, I was just wondering if anybody else has been noticing audio dropouts from WLNS. I have been watching the Masters and every minute or so the audio cuts out. I am in Haslett and I am using the Silver Sensor. Picture is coming in great. Just wondering if it would be on my end or theirs. I just moved here last month and I am wondering if this is common in the area with these HD channels, this one in particular. Any help would be great thanks.

Originally posted by luc12
Hello, I was just wondering if anybody else has been noticing audio dropouts from WLNS. I have been watching the Masters and every minute or so the audio cuts out. I am in Haslett and I am using the Silver Sensor. Picture is coming in great. Just wondering if it would be on my end or theirs. I just moved here last month and I am wondering if this is common in the area with these HD channels, this one in particular. Any help would be great thanks.

I have Silver Sensor in DeWitt and get Audio drop outs occasionally as well. This happens to me on any channel when the signal drops near the minimum. Not sure why the audio stream is more sensitive than the video stream.

Originally posted by garybliev
The DTV transmitter hours closely match the analog broadcast day. We sign both on at 7AM M-F and 8AM Sat-Sun. Signoff is typically at midnight, except that if an HD program would extend beyond midnight we will turn the transmitter off earlier to avoid chopping a program off in progress.

We're looking at having the DTV transmitter on 24x7 but that probably won't be until May or June after we get a remote control system that can allow us to comply with the FCC's rules for unattended operation.


Good to hear you are looking at 24x7 on DTV!

Downsample to 720p looks fine for most shows. There is one exception. The show about the Mexican Family(Can't remember the name at the moment..) looks really really soft compared to what it was at 1080i. Do you get a full D1?(1920x1080p) high bit rate feed from PBS?

Any Idea why that show sees more of an impact than the others?

VIVO,

Is this a common occurance in this area? I never had this problem when I used my SS in Georgia. Antennaweb says I am within 24 miles from everything. It seems to be pretty bad, constantly cutting out. If it is common I might have to go to a rooftop, and if so does anybody have a recommendation for one in this area. Thanks.

Luc12,

Yes, I have this problem more often than I would like. Much worse when it is windy. Get occasional precipitous drops in signal, then everything is fine again. Not sure if this is caused by multi-path issues(planes going in/out of Cap City?) or something else..

Haven't gone roof top yet. Had Comcast come out to put in an HDTV cable box, but when I found out that even with a premium digital package I was only going to get a few channels(none of the major networks), I told them to bring it back when they got all their ducks(contracts) in a row! My TV would pick them up if they didn't encrypt them(grrrrrr..)

If you do go for HDTV over cable the box has tons of features, just don't think all are enabled. They provide a 5 wire cable(Component+LRstereo) You have to provide your own DVI and/or Digital audio cables.

Thanks VIVO, I will be getting Directv HD with HD Tivo hooked up in a couple of weeks, since my cable company stinks(Millenium) so I think I am going to have them install an omnidirectional antenna while they are up there. I can't stand this audio cutting in and out all the time, it drives me nuts. I don't know which kind I am going to use so if you or anybody else have any suggestions as to which kind that I should use that would be great. I heard Radio Shack or Weingard has some pretty good ones. It stinks that my Silver Sensor doesn't work well and I have to buy another antenna, but oh well. Thanks.

I was wondering if anyone knows when WLAJ is going live

Yes, good question.

WHTY UPN18 had a fcc extension as far as their info, but now according to antenna web they are live?

Has anyone seen or heard anything if they are up or will be soon?

Digital channel is 34.

You might call the chief at WLAJ, they are the engineering for WHTV, Mike Winski might have a timeline for you. However my feeling is that they will not go DTV till the last possible time, due to ownership.

I built that station technically, and the ownership is kinda quirky.

Originally posted by VIVOtheFURY
Good to hear you are looking at 24x7 on DTV!

Downsample to 720p looks fine for most shows. There is one exception. The show about the Mexican Family(Can't remember the name at the moment..) looks really really soft compared to what it was at 1080i. Do you get a full D1?(1920x1080p) high bit rate feed from PBS?

Actually, there are not recorders currently avaiable in the market that can record and playback the full bandwidth of HDTV. Most of them max out at about 1440 horizontal pixels.

PBS sends programming to member stations as a compresed data stream at about 16.5 mpbs video.

Any Idea why that show sees more of an impact than the others?

American Family looks to be shot on film rather than video. Even though film has a higher resolution, it has always looked softer as it does not have the arfiticial enhancement that is applied to video.

Also American Family's film to tape process is in HD. Many (most) of the programs on the PBS HD channel are standard definition wide screen presentations.

Another factor, we are conducting an experiment in data casting for the Michigan State Police and county emergency managers. Because of this testing the HD bit rate was reduced by an additional 2mpbs to about 11.3. It will be going back up on Wednesday after the testing.

Originally posted by garybliev
Actually, there are not recorders currently avaiable in the market that can record and playback the full bandwidth of HDTV. Most of them max out at about 1440 horizontal pixels.

That would explain why Microsoft's WMV9 HDTV 1080i clips max are only 1440 pixels wide.

PBS sends programming to member stations as a compresed data stream at about 16.5 mpbs video.

I thought that in the HDTV spec there is a very high band width(>100Mbs) feed for network transmissions. Would be much easier to resample from this than from an already compressed feed.



American Family looks to be shot on film rather than video. Even though film has a higher resolution, it has always looked softer as it does not have the arfiticial enhancement that is applied to video.


Still doesn't really explain why it looks softer at 720 than it did at 1080i. I have also noticed stuttering, more so on other programs during motion scenes. Could this be an artifact of the deinterlacing process when going from 1080i to 720p?

I would like to understand how going to 720p reduces your bit rate requirements. I thought that the frame rate of 720p is effectively double the 1080i frame rate, therefore even though the resolution lower, the actual bit rate requirements are about the same. wouldn't you have to drop down to 720i(standard??) to reduce bit rate?


Another factor, we are conducting an experiment in data casting for the Michigan State Police and county emergency managers. Because of this testing the HD bit rate was reduced by an additional 2mpbs to about 11.3. It will be going back up on Wednesday after the testing.

Will be very happy when you go back to the higher bit rate. I noticed that there are occasions when the content on your SD feed is the same as what is on the HD feed. Why can't you switch off the SD feed and allocate full bit rate to the HD feed during these programs?

Thanks for all the information!

Any Help? I am not able to receive Fox or NBC channels using my Silver Sensor over here in Haslett the last couple of nights, absolutely nothing. Is this right? Should I be receiving these channels with the SS from my location, everything is within 25 miles or are they not broadcasting in HD yet? Any help would be great.

Hope no one minds if I bring this up, but it seems to be pledge time for WKAR and we seem to spend a lot of time talking about WKAR anyway.

Might not be a bad idea to show Gary and the crew at WKAR-DT how appreciative we are of the support they have given us and all the hard work they have put into getting HDTV on the air for all of us spoiled sob's. ;)

http://wkar.org/support/page.php?area=telev&content=tvmember

:D

Originally posted by VIVOtheFURY
I thought that in the HDTV spec there is a very high band width(>100Mbs) feed for network transmissions. Would be much easier to resample from this than from an already compressed feed.


To the best of my knowledge, no network is sending feeds to their affiliates at that bandwidth. PBS is using the ATSC standard 19.4 (with video at about 16.5) this feed utilizes 1/2 of a transponder. The other half of the transponder contains four standard definition signals.

My understanding is that the commercial networks are currently using 45 mbps to feed HD signals to their affiliates. A 45mpbs signal fits on a DS-3 data circuit, and also fits on one transponder. No doubt 100mpbs would look better than what we're doing, but it wouldn't be cost effective.

From what I've read, Fox is going to a system similar to PBS's this fall, in that they will be feeding HD pre-compressed in a 19.4 package.



Still doesn't really explain why it looks softer at 720 than it did at 1080i. I have also noticed stuttering, more so on other programs during motion scenes. Could this be an artifact of the deinterlacing process when going from 1080i to 720p?

Maybe. I think the studdering is associated with the low bit rate we're using right now, at about 11.3 mpbs.


I would like to understand how going to 720p reduces your bit rate requirements. I thought that the frame rate of 720p is effectively double the 1080i frame rate, therefore even though the resolution lower, the actual bit rate requirements are about the same. wouldn't you have to drop down to 720i(standard??) to reduce bit rate?

Indeed, they are the same number:

1920 pixels x 1080 lines at 29.97 fps = 1440 pixels x 720 lines x 59.94 fps = 62,145,792 pixels per second

What you gain is that the compression of a progressive signal is easier for the encoder to do.


I Will be very happy when you go back to the higher bit rate. I noticed that there are occasions when the content on your SD feed is the same as what is on the HD feed. Why can't you switch off the SD feed and allocate full bit rate to the HD feed during these programs?

They are relatively rare, perhaps an hour or two a day. We now have at least one cable systems that is picking up our simulcast signal from WKAR-DT and using it as the source to feed our programming on the cable system. If we were to drop it and reallocate the bits the signal would be lost for that length of time.

Also, may of the DTV receivers out there look for a signal once (when doing a channel scan) and if they don't see it then, they never look for it again. So, if someone scans while we are on HD only, they may never find the SD signal.

Thanks for all the information!

Originally posted by tbadour
Hi Usg,

Beta testing is now complete with Comcast. Hdtv is now available in the Lansing area market. The monthly charge is $5.00 per month added to digital cable. The HDTV box I received was the Motorola 6200. Right now only 5 channels Espnhd, Inhdtv1, Inhdtv2, Hbohd, and Showtimehd. They are suppose to be adding more channels very soon!!

I need one of those dancing banana smileys now ... just punched up comcast.com's site and it's an orderable option.

DVDs are great but it'll be great to finally have the full rez without having to go drive to see my display running an HDTV feed at the dealer.

(Side note: if we're counting heads, I prefer 720p over 1080i. Progressive scanning looks better IMO whether it's computer monitors, DVD signal, or HDTV.)

I prefer 720p over 1080i

I'm still not sure about this. My display converts 720p to 1080i. I imagine this applies to most folks with an rptv. I understand 720p is less subject to motion artifacts than 1080i, BUT, there is probably some "softening" in the upconversion from 720p to 1080i. So which is the lesser of two evils -- motion artifacts or upconversion?

Does anybody know how well multidirectional antennas work in the area. I just moved to the Haslett area and antennaweb suggests I use a multidirectional antenna but I have heard a lot of negative things about them. Since my Silver Sensor isn't working that well I need to find an alternative when I get Directv installed soon. Any suggestion on which will work best?

I don't have one but some of the guys at work have had success with them. I think it really depends on your exact location.
See: Vissers (http://www.vissers.net/hdtv.htm)

Originally posted by luc12
Does anybody know how well multidirectional antennas work in the area. I just moved to the Haslett area and antennaweb suggests I use a multidirectional antenna but I have heard a lot of negative things about them. Since my Silver Sensor isn't working that well I need to find an alternative when I get Directv installed soon. Any suggestion on which will work best?

Have you tried putting an inline amplifier on your Silver Sensor? In other threads I have seen people really talk up the Channel Master UHF only amp. I couldn't find one around here and went for a $20 radio shack one instead. I think it helps. Throws off the balance a little bit with the amp hanging off the back, so you have to push a loop of the cable back forward through the stand.

Good Luck Luc!

Originally posted by Chris White
I prefer 720p over 1080i

I'm still not sure about this. My display converts 720p to 1080i. I imagine this applies to most folks with an rptv. I understand 720p is less subject to motion artifacts than 1080i, BUT, there is probably some "softening" in the upconversion from 720p to 1080i. So which is the lesser of two evils -- motion artifacts or upconversion?

Bigest evil is when signal is downconverted from 1080i to 720p and then our CRT based sets upconvert it again to 1080i. Don't think anything good can come from that. Probably not a problem at all for those people with pricey 720p native panels. Would think that the conversion hardware at the station does a better job than the hardware in the TV.

Originally posted by Chris White
I prefer 720p over 1080i

I'm still not sure about this. My display converts 720p to 1080i. I imagine this applies to most folks with an rptv. I understand 720p is less subject to motion artifacts than 1080i, BUT, there is probably some "softening" in the upconversion from 720p to 1080i. So which is the lesser of two evils -- motion artifacts or upconversion?

Certainly if you convert a lower rez picture to a higher rez it'll be 'softer' (you don't magically get image detail out of nowhere). As Vivo said, the worst case is to do 1080i to 720p and then have to upconvert back to 1080i, because then you neither get the 60hz refresh rate nor the extra image detail which was thrown out in the convert to 720p.

All I was saying is that I never could stand computer monitors in interlaced mode (you may remember early days when 1024x768 rez was only available on most monitors in interlaced mode), and I found the same to be true in HDTV.

I chose my display appropriately (720p native rez). I don't presume to know what other people prefer nor what other people own, I'm just stating my opinion.

Well, I get WILX and WSYM fine now. Maybe there was someting wrong with my Sammy receiver. What's weird though is that those two stations are the furthest away and they come in fine audio and all. Yet the two that are closest CBS and PBS have audio dropouts and they are coming in about 90% the other two are around 70%. CBS is really bad, cutting out constantly PBS only does it occassionaly. Is there something wrong on their end or am I experiencing multipath issues. I tried the in-line amplifier you suggested VIVO and nothing changed. I still might try the multi-directional antenna. Thanks for your help guys.

Originally posted by luc12
Well, I get WILX and WSYM fine now. Maybe there was someting wrong with my Sammy receiver. What's weird though is that those two stations are the furthest away and they come in fine audio and all. Yet the two that are closest CBS and PBS have audio dropouts and they are coming in about 90% the other two are around 70%. CBS is really bad, cutting out constantly PBS only does it occassionaly. Is there something wrong on their end or am I experiencing multipath issues. I tried the in-line amplifier you suggested VIVO and nothing changed. I still might try the multi-directional antenna. Thanks for your help guys.

With that kind of signal strenth it sounds like a multipath rejection problem. Any water towers or other tall structures nearby?

Are you connecting to your sound system digitally from the Sammy, or using analogue outputs?

I notice that my external Dolby Digital decoder(Creative Extigy using OpticalTSOlink from TV) suffers audio dropouts at times when the TV speakers connected directly from the built-in HD tuner in my TV does not. Wonder if even a miniscule drop-out in signal forces a reaquisition cycle by the DD decoder?

My setup does not allow me to tell which Dolby digital encoding is being used. My guess is that CBS and PBS are broadcasting 5.0 or 5.1. The others may only be broadcasting 2.0 which may more tollerant during dropouts. Perhaps our friendly resident WKAR engineer can enlighten us here?

I don't have any tall structures in my area that I know about. I live just north of Lake Lansing. Interesting though, I was using the Digital output before and I was getting all the droputs then I switched to analog outputs and no more dropouts, sound is fine. I wonder what the reason is. You may be right VIVO about the decoder and the fact that the other channels broadcast in 2.0. Maybe I will experiment with different receivers to see if there is a difference as well. Thanks.

Wonder if even a miniscule drop-out in signal forces a reaquisition cycle by the DD decoder?

It does. The worst station for dropouts for me is WLNS (even though it's only 6 miles away) so when I watch a CBS show, I mostly use the analog output of my HD card. With analog, the dropouts last only an instant.

AFAIK, the only local station broadcasting 5.0 is WILX.

For me, WLNS is my best signal. I can adjust my powered indoor antenna, and not have any audio or video dropouts. I don't watch much golf, but I had to check out the Masters in HD, and it was very nice. I've been having a hard time getting PBS lately. I don't know why.
This summer, I plan on putting an antenna on the roof. I'm really not sure what kind yet. Any recommendations? For reference, I am near the intersection of Pennsylvania and Cavanaugh in Lansing.

Well I moved in and the tv arrived safe and sound (whewwwwww)...

I had comcast set up for an appointment to come out and hook me up with my digital box and the guy says "how come you didn't go with an HD box"?

I explained the girl on the phone said it was coming yet not available yet, he said "sure it is I have installed 4-5 in the last week alone"...

So I called with him right there, girl on phone says not yet but soon, guy laughs at the rep on the phone and talks to her for a min and suddenly I am setup with installation for an HD box the next day (he didn't have an extra on his truck that day).

Nice box, Silver Motorola 6200 no instructions or manuals of any kind though...

5 HD channels with a promise of more soon now THAT is the 1 million dollar question ----

"How soon is soon & what channels will be added"

but I guess I am just happy to have some Comcast HD to start with which was more than the many months of promises from them in my previous hometown...

Bill :)

Motorola has the whole DCT 6200 manual available on their site in pdf form.

Chris,
I'm thinking about getting the CM4221 like you have or going for it and getting the CM4228 8-bay.
If you don't mind, I have a couple of questions.
Did you install it yourself?
Do you have any pros or cons to say about your 4221?
What channels do you get that aren't from Lansing?
Thanks,
Adrian

Did you install it yourself?

Yes. It looks really big in the picture, but it's actually very small - 20"x40" and lightweight. I've got mine on the end a 3' pole on the roof and it's so small no one ever notices it.

Do you have any pros or cons to say about your 4221?

Pros: small size; it isn't "too" directional
Cons: medium strength; I'm sure the 4228 is much more powerful, but of course it's also much more directional.

What channels do you get that aren't from Lansing?

The only station I get other than locals (WLNS, WILX, WKAR, WSYM) is the UPN station between Lansing and Grand Rapids. The signal for it is pretty weak though. I was hoping to pick up ABC from Flint, but no go.

WJRT? Channel 12 out of Flint comes in really well with my Silver Sensor. :-D
Has All news on 12-2 and low bit-rate weather forcasat and radar on 12-3
When is ABC switching to HD for all their football feeds?

PAX to the west is a little tougher but usually comes in OK.
(No HD ever!) 4 SD channels is all you get.

There's supposed to be a UPN station down near Jackson but have no luck with that at all.

Channel 12 out of Flint comes in really well with my Silver Sensor.

That surprises me. It looks to me like you're further from Flint than I am. Maybe my ADTV card isn't sensitive enough.

FWIW, WJRT's tower is north and west of Flint...between Chesaning and Luce.

I don't believe that UPN station (WHTV-DT) is live regardless of what antennaweb.org shows. Isn't it on the same tower as WLAJ? It'd be great if both of the channels would go live at the same time. Any specific date on WLAJ yet?

VIVOtheFURY said:
There's supposed to be a UPN station down near Jackson but have no luck with that at all.

Chris White said:
The only station I get other than locals (WLNS, WILX, WKAR, WSYM) is the UPN station between Lansing and Grand Rapids.

Are you sure that was a UPN station and not a WB/PAX station (WZPX)?

Are you sure that was a UPN station and not a WB/PAX station (WZPX)?

No, I'm not sure. :) You're probably right that it was a WB/PAX station. My memory is pretty fuzzy since I never watch either one (UPN or WB/PAX).

I noticed that WLAJ is up today. Was today the first day or have I just missed it until now?

Originally posted by mlcarson
I noticed that WLAJ is up today. Was today the first day or have I just missed it until now?

Thanks, that is news to me.

What Channel? Will try when I get home.

They have subchannels, or everything on the main feed?

51-1 coming in great for me. Now I have 3 ABC outlets, I just hope they don't stretch the picture as WJRT does.

Originally posted by Matt L
51-1 coming in great for me. Now I have 3 ABC outlets, I just hope they don't stretch the picture as WJRT does.
It appears that 51-2 is stretched and 51-1 is not. Both seem to be Dolby Digital 2.0 I'm glad to see WLAJ on the air now.

What would be the next ABC HD program so I can check it out?

The first ABC program in HD tonight is George Lopez (8pm), followed by Big House (830pm), Hope & Faith (900pm), and Married to the Kellys (930pm).

Originally posted by mlcarson
I noticed that WLAJ is up today. Was today the first day or have I just missed it until now? That must be pretty new if none of us had noticed until today. Of course, as I check it out right now, neither channel is in widescreen on WLAJ, turn the antenna to WJRT, and they are in widescreen. Hopefully WLAJ will get this fixed ASAP.

Now all we need in Lansing is a UPN affiliate and we'll be all set. :)

A WB affiliate would be nice too.

I too would like to see a local WB-DT station that actually broadcasts in HD! Sorry, 43's 4 channels of SD don't cut it. Even when Titan claims the program should be in HD, it isn't.

If the programming was not in HDTV, then it shouldn't be in widescreen. That's what most people hate about WJRT -- they stretch SDTV content to fit widescreen which really just distorts the picture. If you want widescreen format for an SDTV signal, let the TV do it -- don't send the picture in a distorted format so that it cannot be viewed the way it was intended.

If the programming was HDTV programming and it wasn't being sent out that way, that's a different story...

Originally posted by srgilbert
[B]Of course, as I check it out right now, neither channel is in widescreen on WLAJ, turn the antenna to WJRT, and they are in widescreen. Hopefully WLAJ will get this fixed ASAP.

ABC's Friday night shows are in Hd, WLAJ didn't pass them that way. I tuned in and found black bars on 51-1 and gray on 51-2, no stretching!

Originally posted by Matt L
ABC's Friday night shows are in Hd, WLAJ didn't pass them that way. I tuned in and found black bars on 51-1 and gray on 51-2, no stretching! Exactly, the shows I was refering to ARE supposed to be in widescreen. It's probably more likely that we have caught them in early testing. I'll be happy if it's fixed in time for the next showing of Alias. :)

No HD tonight on WLAJ. 51-1 had black bars for "The Mummy Returns", 51-2 was stretched. I had glorious HD for 36-1 and 20-1 ABC. I agree that I hope they are testing.

Well it doesn't look like they've got the station id stuff working either so maybe they are just testing.

Howdy all,

Well I dusted off the Mitsu srhd500 box (since I don't have directv anymore) but I figured why not just plug in an antenna I just got at target tonight and see what I get...

Wife wanted to go to Target tonight (setting up new house here) so I hit the electronics isle as she shopped in bedding and such, I grabbed a clearance amplified antenna from RCA for $7, figured it was worth a try for $7 and I could just return it if it didn't get anything in.

I didn't even know where to point it so I just stuck both antenna arms straight up (36 inches each) and set it behind the tv so I couldn't see it.
I turned the dial to max (25 db gain I think it said) and did a channel scan


here is what my box found



6-1 WLNS (cbs) 100% signal

10-1 WILX (nbc) 93% signal

23-1 WKAR (pbs) 100% signal
23-2

43-1 (all those pax and worship channels)
43-2 /
43-3 /
43-4 /

47-1 WSYM (fox) 100% signal
47-2

51-1 (no call tags just said LOCAL, but saw an ABC logo on it) 100% signal
51-2

Curious to know from those of you who do know the locals here, is this a pretty good attempt at most of the HD channels here?

I do have an 80 inch boom antenna in the garage, I was thinking of running a line inside and messing with that a bit, but heck all my signals (on the channels I got) were 93% - 100% peaked, so unless I am missing a few key local channels I think this $7 unit will do me just fine - till comcast starts putting HD locals thru the lines (if ever)...

Bill :)

Originally posted by FTLOSM
here is what my box found
6-1 WLNS (cbs) 100% signal
10-1 WILX (nbc) 93% signal
23-1 WKAR (pbs) 100% signal
23-2
43-1 (all those pax and worship channels)
43-2 /
43-3 /
43-4 /
47-1 WSYM (fox) 100% signal
47-2
51-1 (no call tags just said LOCAL, but saw an ABC logo on it) 100% signal
51-2

Curious to know from those of you who do know the locals here, is this a pretty good attempt at most of the HD channels here?

Bill :)

Yep, that's pretty much everything you can get (or would need really) as far as local HD. Only glitch is the ABC station you found is the one we were just talking about. That's WLAJ, and they just activated their DT signal this week. So far, they aren't passing a HD signal, but we expect that to be corrected eventually. I think that most of us had been getting our ABC from WJRT out of Flint, and that would require the outdoor antenna in the Lansing area.

It's really been quite a year in this area for DT hasn't it? When I started this thread in March of last year, we only had TWO stations in Lansing OTA, now we have SIX in this area alone, and HD cable on the way as well. Now only if there was something on worth watching...... :)

FTLOSM, looks like you're in a good spot, you're getting everything Lansing has to offer. You might gain a few out of market stations with the big antenna, but you'd have to rotate it. Odds are you could retract the rabbit ears since all of the stations are UHF.

Now, if only Lansing had an HD WB outlet I'd leave my antenna pointed west. But I got to have my WB fix...

Thanks for the replies guys, at least I know I am seeing most of what is available, that abc is weird, i get 100% signals yet it takes about 20 seconds to "kick in" and then breaks up now and then (even with solid 100% signal) but being new and all I bet they will have the kinks worked out soon.

The PBS and CBS stations both looked great tonight though. I will have to see if I can drop the ears and do a signal strength on the current channels I get, that would be nice if it still pegged out at 100% with them down, altho behind the "wall of tv" hehe they are hidden pretty well...

My comcast cable hd stuff is pretty fun too, but I can only watch so much basketball or tennis, and espn's programming seems to be only 1 of 5 or so in real HD,, INHD1 and 2 are cool tho, and I do subscribe to the hbo hd, haven't decided on show hd tho just yet...

I hope comcast adds some more programming in hd soon, I heard from the tech here that in Ann Arbor they have over 30 hd channels thru comcast, dunno if that was accurate or not but having 5 now is a good start I guess (+ my locals thru my other set top box)...

Bill :)

Oh btw, my tv Mitsu 65907 only has one set of hd inputs, is there a switcher or something I can buy (even if it is manual) so that I could have both my comcast hd box and my mitsu hd box (which I use for local ota hd), both running and plugged in, then I would only need to go switch an a/b type device vs having to plug in and unplug each other when I am in the mood to scan thru comcasts hd or mitsus otal locals?

I thought about running 5 sets of "Y" cords from the lines of both boxes so that the signal of both boxes were fed into my one input - then making sure the one is OFF before turning the other ON (so there wouldn't be two signals running into the tv at once), yet I didn't do it (too chicken I guess and I dont have 5 Y cables).... but would that work as long as I made sure that one box is OFF when I turn the other box ON?

Some of us used WOTV - 20 (ABC). If you you have a VHF antenna, you can also pick up WOOD - 7 (NBC) and get the UPN affiliate (but unfortunately not in HDTV) at the same angle. As soon as WLAJ and WHTV come online, it's time to repoint the antenna....

Originally posted by srgilbert
I think that most of us had been getting our ABC from WJRT out of Flint, and that would require the outdoor antenna in the Lansing area.

FTLOSM, what kind of connections are you using? Component? If so I've read good reports on using a basic RS A/V switch, the Y, R, W connections are easily used for the 3 component feeds. I know the mechanical is break before make but I'm not sure on the remote controlled unit.

Yes I am using rca styled component cables for both my hd cable box and my mitsu ota hd box, I might even HAVE one of those old 2 or 3 device RCA style ABC type switches laying around in one of these unpacked boxes from way back when I used to have like 3 game systems plugged into one small 20 inch tv...

Its a manual one but I think it is only Yellow Red White (3 per input), on a component cable we have 5, altho two are just Red White audio,,,, could I just run the component Green Red Blue's of each device into that switcher as say input 1 and input 2, then just use 2 Y cables for the red and white audio lines of both component boxes wires directly (thru the Y of each of those) into the tvs audio inputs for hd, (then just make sure the one box is off when I turn the other on so I don't get both sound feeds) etc etc?

Hope what I wrote here makes sense, but if I can find that box It sure would be worth trying for fun...

Thanks for the idea...

I wish my comcast box (motorola 6200) allowed me to use an ota antenna sorta like my mitsu allows me to get the directv stuff and the local otas all in one unit, if comcast released a box that would allow that then I would be even happier, or better yet just add them to the hd comcast lineup! hehe

Bill :)

You got it. My component cables are only 3 conductor, and occasionally I use an old Y,R,W cable for connections, never had a problem, though there are some on the boards here that would yell at me....

I route all my audio through my HD receiver, since it up-converts standard audio to optical, but prior to that I routed all audio to my receiver and that would be inconvenient with a 5 conductor cable.

You've got an impressive setup compared to mine, do you have a dedicated room in your new home?

Originally posted by Matt L

You've got an impressive setup compared to mine, do you have a dedicated room in your new home?


Matt,
I wish I had a dedicated room for HT, but my living room is where the beast sits hehe, we have a 30 x 24 garage here and I wanted to convert that SO bad into a dedicated home theater but my wife said no way...

I still haven't come across my av switcher box, I do remember having it but it has been a LONG time since I have seen it, but that just might do the job for me on this 2 boxes and only one hd input... That is until comcast starts to put these locals in hd thru the cable lines.

I was even thinking of just getting the basic directv deal again (I miss hdnet) altho paying for both comcast and directv at the same time might get me into some hot water with my wife, so for now I just use the directv hd box for local ota hd programs.

Has someone done some HD recording from Mot 6200 to DVHS/Mac/WinXP through firewire? Can some one post the version # of the Mot 6200 application distributed in this area. Versions 7.10 onwards are supposed to be recordable using above equipments. Thanks.
USG

Was it just my reception or was WILX not broadcasting in HD tonight because I didn't get a blip and I usually I get 90%. Anybody else notice this? Thanks

Comcast customers that are interested in an HD PVR should send me a Private Message with contact info; name, address, phone.

It seems like the number of instances in which the local station forgets to "throw the switch" from SD to HD is increasing instead of decreasing. I've seen this happen several times now in just the past week. For example, the switch to HD for Tuesday night's NCIS didn't take place until the show was more than half way finished. I'm wondering whether this is an automated process (it's hard to imagine it's not) or if someone has to physically "throw the switch" each time.

Well, watching WLNS "flipping the switch" every night at 10:56 PM makes me think it is automated. I have no idea why the last few seconds of a show has to have the HD shut off. Do they have an accurate time base? I would think so, if not, how about calling time?

It is ridiculous, last night I wanted to watch Angel in HD but WB 20 in Detroit is having major problems so I switched over to WDIV to watch West Wing only to find it letterboxed. I flipped over to WILX and all was fine. After all these years, you would think there would be some sort of system in place to do this automatically, HD is not exactly a new technology anymore.

Maybe the WLNS switch operator goes off duty at 11:00pm, and doesn't want to stay past his time, so he starts the shut down routine early.

Is WLAJ still testing, or are they going to continue to broadcast 480i?

Egret,

Right now we are guessing they are still testing.

Originally posted by Chris White
It seems like the number of instances in which the local station forgets to "throw the switch" from SD to HD is increasing instead of decreasing. I've seen this happen several times now in just the past week. For example, the switch to HD for Tuesday night's NCIS didn't take place until the show was more than half way finished. I'm wondering whether this is an automated process (it's hard to imagine it's not) or if someone has to physically "throw the switch" each time.

I think it goes both ways, I've managed to call them and within 30 seconds the feed goes HD.

Could someone let me know if WLAJ is broadcasting in HD yet?
I don't want to have to scan for it if they aren't doing it yet.
Thanks.

I think Tomb Raider Last night was in HD. Titan says Remember the Titans will be on WLAJ in HD tonight.

Has Comcast added any local channels ot their HD lineup yet?

I may break down anyways just for the ESPN-HD with the Wings and Pistons moving forward in the playoffs.

Originally posted by Adrian D
Could someone let me know if WLAJ is broadcasting in HD yet?
I don't want to have to scan for it if they aren't doing it yet.
Thanks.
I haven't seen any HD on WLAJ yet. Remember the Titans was not in HD last night.

Originally posted by Egret
I haven't seen any HD on WLAJ yet. Remember the Titans was not in HD last night.

My sources say that WLAJ is waiting on the ABC HD affiliate package (satellite receiver) then they will be able to transmit in HD.

Last I'd heard, should be in a couple of weeks.

Originally posted by VIVOtheFURY
Since my Zenith C32V37 won't be here until Saturday..... My son and I are going to the game in Ann Arbor. GO BLUE!!!! Helps that my sister works there and can get me tickets. No public ticket sales.. too bad State fans! LOL!


Scoreboard

Originally posted by garybliev
My sources say that WLAJ is waiting on the ABC HD affiliate package (satellite receiver) then they will be able to transmit in HD.

Last I'd heard, should be in a couple of weeks. Greeeeaat, just in time to completely miss the end of the TV season. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by nettleman
Scoreboard

Yeah, Yeah... Who at the Big Ten scheduled that game for the week Michigan students were on break???? Student section was about a third of it's normal vociferous crew.. and that left room for too many of those D*#@ State fans...

We'll see what happens next year. Get ready for State to LOSE at the Brez. You heard it here first. (I'll put that one in the bank if Malik comes on board tomorrow!)

I want to thank all the State fans that were yelling NIT after the game! I got to sit in the Lower bowl with cheap seats for the NIT games. That was a first and was loud enough in there to get mentioned as one of the loudest crowds the anouncers had seen anywhere all year. Much louder than at the State game.

Wait, what happened to State in the NCAA tourney? Scoreboard?

Originally posted by srgilbert
Greeeeaat, just in time to completely miss the end of the TV season. :rolleyes:

Yeah, but just think, you can watch all the reruns and marvel at the picture quality with out the plot getting in the way.... :D

Originally posted by Matt L
Yeah, but just think, you can watch all the reruns and marvel at the picture quality with out the plot getting in the way.... :D
Or you can think that it'll be in time for Monday Night Football. :D

Had Comcast come out with an HD box.

Problems.....

First box didn't sync to the network correctly...

Second box synced, but for some reason does not want to connect my TV using DVI!!! Some bull.... about not having HDCP. I thought the TV had it. Could it be DVI cable issue???

That being said, I did see the Menu come up through the DVI, but then it game this blue warning message accross the screen. Even the menu looked noticably better over the DVI than it does on Component, so I can only imagine how good the HD would look if I could get it to connect that way.

Anyone out there succesfully hook up DVI from a Comcast HD box???

Then about an hour after the Comcast guy left, the box cut out and went Dark. It cannot be resuscitated, and they are coming back out Wednesday to replace it.

Before it died, I watched part of a movie on one of the InHD channels which looked almost as good as my OTA picture.

Hey VIVO, just some friendly chatter.

I think the NIT championship was good stuff for UM. I won't say it's better than rolling the dice in the big dance, but, if your going to go to it why not win the damn thing.

Anyway, I don't want to sidetrack the thread.

I live in Durand MI, After 16 months of afterwork labor I am nearing completion of my Theater and will be purchasing a receiver and antenna in the next 30 days. (hopefully)

I didn't see alot of feedback from people in my area. I am 20 miles from Flint and 30 miles from Lansing. Unfortunately, my house has no antenna. I am going to start with the Silver sensor and see if I can get anything. I also have the option of hooking up some crazy stuff in my attack. That will be option 2. Third is to erect an antenna on the roof.

Look forward to learning from you guys and hopefully I can help out some lurkers from the Shiawasee area.

Hey Nettleman,

You may be in a decent locationthere. Might be able to pick up Flint(WJRT), Lansing(WKAR,WLNS), and even a few Detroit stations. You checked out Antennweb.org? Don't trust there antenna recomendations, but will give you a good read on what's possilbe.

Yes, I think the NIT was good for U-M. As for rolling the dice on the big dance, too bad State rolled Snake-eyes, or is that Snake-bit?

For whatever reason, my Comcast HD cable box came back alive this morning. I have no clue why it blacked out, or what brought it back..... strange stuff!

Hi VIVOtheFURY,

Is your Comcast box DCT6200 or DCT6208? Can you post the firmware version? Some firmware versions have various problems.

Here is the DCT 5100 / 6200 series On Board Diagnostics Screens (http://www.cjhengineering.com/5100diag.htm)

USG

Motorola 6200/2005

How do I find out what firmware it has?

Double checked and Zenith claims that my TV's DVI is HDCP compliant. Why does the MOTO complain about it not being compliant??? Once again I ask.. could it be the DVI cable???

Any way to hook this thing up to my computer using the firewire connection???

Thanks

I added the Diagnosis link in the previous post. And here is a Motorola High Definition STB FAQ (http://cjhengineering.com/DCTHDFAQ.htm)

To check firmware version (from the FAQ):
Press “Menu” à then select “Main Menu” à select “Setup” à select “Cable Box” à highlight “See Configuration” & press the right arrow key. The SW Version & Firmware version are listed here.

Hope it helps.

Thanks usg,

I will look into the FAQ's and try to let you know which firmware it has.

Right now that is not possible, as my box blacked out again!!!

Hopefully it will come back up later today or tomorrow.

Can't wait for them to bring out a new box on Wednesday!

Related & non Related (east lansing/comcast)

Talking to a cable guy the other day here to fix a line that was damaged by new construction outside my home, he mentioned they are going to be adding more HD channels SOON, well we all hear and know that but I said soon ....WHEN and what channels, of course he clammed up saying not sure but down in Ann Arbor they have 30 channels in hd and those should all be coming our way soon (I find it hard to believe 30 channels in hd thru comcast in annarbor?).. can anyone confirm this?

Anyways second part of my comcast post here is that I might not have them soon, I own 4 pcs, one hooked up thru their modem, to a router then 3 served by the router itself. Have had this setup with the router and 4 pcs for years never a problem till yesterday when I got a letter saying that I would have to pay for each IP address. In the letter it also explained alternatives (such as using a router) which I do so I called and explained my setup and how it was setup and how I have had them for years & never had a problem, I was told directly on the phone by the rep for internet end, I will have to pay more per month for these other ips regardless of my router... That is so not cool...

Anyone here using more than one pc on a comcast internet connection?

Also anyone know when or what channels we may get thru them in hd for the future? INHD 1&2 are cool, so is HBO, ESPN rarely seems to have HD content and I don't subscribe to SHOWTIME so if they do jerk my rates around on internet (I have to call back on the 18th they said), and if they don't supply some more channels in HD soon to keep me happy on that end, I might just have to dump comcast alltogether...

Anyone here ever used that VOOM??? Good or bad???

Then again there is always Directv...

Internet wise heck I don't care I will go back to Dialup if needed, I don't do much beyond emails and a few message boards these days...

Bill

How about SBC DSL $26.99/mo?

I've had it for 6 months and I love it, coming from dial up. How does comcast know how many computers you have? I have my DSL feeding my router and from there to 5 PCs. i have only one IP assigned and it's shared by the router. I don't assign an address to any of the PCs, it's done dynamically. If they are getting that picky they are just shooting themselves in the foot, SBC is coming on strong with DSL and now the E* tie in.

FTL:

Anyways second part of my comcast post here is that I might not have them soon, I own 4 pcs, one hooked up thru their modem, to a router then 3 served by the router itself. Have had this setup with the router and 4 pcs for years never a problem till yesterday when I got a letter saying that I would have to pay for each IP address. In the letter it also explained alternatives (such as using a router) which I do so I called and explained my setup and how it was setup and how I have had them for years & never had a problem, I was told directly on the phone by the rep for internet end, I will have to pay more per month for these other ips regardless of my router... That is so not cool...

Anyone here using more than one pc on a comcast internet connection?


Yes, 3 (previously 4) machines through router. Comcast has never asked for extra $ for this. However, if you have an outage and need to call in take the router out of the loop first and connect cablemodem to one PC directly. Comcast will want to try and ping your machine to test connectivity and if you mention the dread word 'router' the tech people will get nervy and say they don't support home networking (as if a ping is not a ping if it hits a router). Conversely set your router so it answers pings and if they ask whether the modem is connected to a PC just say yes (again, a ping is a ping).

MattL:

Comcast cable here is 256kbit up and some large figure down, at least 768kbit. Compare to DSL prices, you decide what you want &/or need.

VIVO:

I also have the problem with DVI not connecting properly. Component is fine. Firmware version is 07.10.

Originally posted by No.6

VIVO:

I also have the problem with DVI not connecting properly. Component is fine. Firmware version is 07.10. [/B]

What type of TV do you have? There is already a thread started about DVI not working with the Zenith C32V37, just wondered if this was true for other TV's as well. That would make me feel better and point the finger directly at Motorola. My Cable box has the 7.10 Firmware as well.

Figured out why my cable box kept blacking out..... Feeling a little foolish here. I hooked up all the cables to the TV, but the cable guy hooked up the power cord. Instead of putting it into my surge suppressor block, he plugged it into the wall... not realizing that the top plug in the outlet was switched.

Panny PT50LC13.

Apparently this is widespread with Comcast and 7.10 firmware?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=194404&perpage=20&highlight=Motorola%206200&pagenumber=149

"Theob" wrote in that thread


I can get the dvi connection to work only when I disconnect and reconnect the cable @ the Motorola box. I don't understand. Anybody have any ideas? I don't believe I have a loose connection, it worked for 5 months.


this is my experience also. (except for the working part)

hi all.....I am closing on my first home this friday. It is near Miller-Washington area in lansing. I cant wait to get in and start the basement theater project.

I have just received a new zenith dvd player which has great upconversion through component to 1080i and friday my Sanyo Z2 projector should be arriving.

I just stumbled across this thread so bear with me as i have not yet read the whole 23 pages of this thread...but I have found some good links for getting reception and what dtv channels are available.

I will probobly just pay the 5 bucks a month for comcast's Motorola hdtv tuner STB for now until I get myhd tuner card for the PC.

My first question I guess since I am on a spending spree!!! is what to look for in an Antenna for picking up the local hd stations, and in your opinion is comcast worth paying for the Digital Cable or the HD station that the provide?? I have never looked into the whole comcast thing yet as I just use basic cable at this point, and planned on transfering just the basic cable to the new house for now.


I will have a budget of about 80-100 max for an antenna (s) to get the best results possible.

Any advice is much appreciated.

Jason

Congrats on the new house, Freon. Why don't you try a Silver Sensor for an antenna first? If it doesn't work, return it. You should be able to pull in all of the Lansing stations with it.

Jason,
Congrats on the new house.
I live a little bit east of you in Lansing, and I use an indoor powered antenna ($30), and I am able to pick up all that Lansing has to offer. I do have to do some fine tuning for certain channels. I believe the only way to improve this is to put an outdoor antenna on the roof.

For cable, I have basic cable right now. Cost including taxes, etc. is about $42.50. If you want to move to digital cable, I would watch for their promotions about it. Sometimes they offer 6 months at a reduced rate.
I haven't investigated about Comcast's HD service yet, so I can't tell you anything about it.
Good luck

thanks for the insight.

I have another question.....any of you using HTPC??

Anyone heard of when Comcast will release that pvr style box in our area (east lansing michigan), also anyone heard what channels they will be adding in HD and or when? (I keep hearing soon but no details).

Bill

Originally posted by FTLOSM
Anyone heard of when Comcast will release that pvr style box in our area (east lansing michigan), also anyone heard what channels they will be adding in HD and or when? (I keep hearing soon but no details).

Bill

Bill,

Got mine (6208) yesterday (Lansing Mall area).

I ask about the local networks and/or any other new HD programming and their reply was "no idea". They said they're ready with the at the head-end on Miller Rd. and will start sending as soon as contracts are signed with the local networks.

AJ

AJ,
Is that something you just called in or walked in and did a swap for? I just got my hd box about 3 weeks ago and there was no mention of the availability of a pvr type box at that time, also what is the additional cost for the pvr box vs just the standard hd box that I currently have?

AJ,

Thank you so much for the response, when I called comcast today at first the guy seemed to not know what I was talking about, and offered instal of a basic hd box (I already have the comcast motorola 6200 for hd).

So I explained a friend about 10 mins from me has it and the model # was 6208 and that I just wanted to get one for the PVR stuff in addition to my hd stuff....

Put me on hold for a bit, came back said yep those are very very new, and they didn't even have info on them yet for customers (had not been trained on them yet) and they were only available in limited areas and few boxes even exist at this point, but he said according to my zipcode 48823 that it did show stock of them for instal, but he had to take alot of extra info plus social security info etc etc (guess cuz its a 1000$ box & I am a somewhat new customer in this area), so we went thru all that and he set me up for instal on monday the 17th (2 days from now).

The way he explained it from what he could read and access on his screens was that the price for me currently as a hd customer is $5 more per month for that hd service, and that with this new box it would now be $12.99 per month in replacement of the previous $5 monthly charge (so basically $8 a month more) if thats correct - then even better I can live with that cost for a pvr for comcast cable that also does hd pvr!

Lastly since I JUST had the hd box brought out and paid the costs for the instal, he waived the instal fee of this box (very nice)...

Thanks again for the info, asked him about hd channels for our area too and his response was canned like most others (soon & hopefully by end of the year we will see more expansion in terms of channels)...

Now the only thing we need is our locals in hd thru comcast or the ability of the box to accept an antenna input to pull in OTA local digitals so i can finally get rid of that directv hrd400 box i use for local hd, (I dont even have directv, yet i need to use the box to get local ota hd).


Bill :)

Bill,

I emailed customer service and ask about it's availability last Wednesday and was originally told it wasn't. Later in the day I received a follow up message stating it was available but in very limited quantities and to call Customer Service (the 800 number) for more info, so I did. After being shuffled around two or three times and spending what seemed like an eternity on hold, they finally said I could get one and would a Friday afternoon appointment work. Tried to get them to let me go pick it up but they wouldn't do it so I got hit with a $30 installation fee + another $9.95 a month on top of the $5.00 HD fee. After just paying $30 for the 6200 (about three weeks ago), I'm not a happy camper. What a racket!

Anyway, I haven't had much time to "play" with it but from what I've seen so far, it appears to be working OK. Never could get my JVC 40K to record the INHD channels via the 6200, nor does it with the 6208, but the PVR does a fantastic job.

Originally posted by FTLOSM
AJ,
When they brought you the box, did it come with any kind of manual or special remote? just curious...since my6200 came with no instructions of anykind, and i cant see this remote working for that box (too many pvr features id assume that arent on this remote)...

Bill,

It did come with an instruction booklet, but I've yet to really look at it. Pretty much figured it out by the remote's (it's slightly different than the 6200's) button labels.

Waived the install fee? I'm calling them right now!!!!

will that comcast box tune in OTA stations??

Nope. :(

Anyone besides me having problems with the two INHD channels today?

Worked fine last night, but don't get anything today.
ESPN HD still works though

Comcast has no clue what is wrong.

I'm having the same problem. Called Comcast and they were unaware of any issues in Lansing so I scheduled a service call for Wednesday afternoon.

Thanks,
Nice to know it isn't just me! Wish Comcast would get their act together....

I am on the north side of east lansing (by the aquatic center), espn works but is not in hd at this moment, and hbo, inhd, and inhd2 (i dont get showtime hd), are all saying this channel will be on shortly (thats been that way all day today from noon till now at 10 pm).

I am guessing someone somewhere needs to throw some switch or reset something simple like that, but at least for me the hd channels are not working today at all.

>>Freon asked
>>will that comcast box tune in OTA stations??


I WISH that new comcast 6208 box would allow ota antenna local hd signals thru it, then i could finally get rid of my directv mitsu srhd400 that I currently have out there just for the locals......they say soon the locals will go thru the comcast cable but when is the million dollar question......

Bill

Don't even bother trying to call Comcast right now... their tech line is NOT answering calls, at least not MINE!!!! Was on hold for most of the night.... Wonder if they only allow you one or two calls a day, then you go to the back of the queue... Ever wonder why they ask for your phone number????

I figure if it is still out in the am tomorrow (sunday) I will try to give a call about it, worst case ill see the guy on monday with my 6208 and show him so he can report the issue, test the line whatever, but I think since it is more than just a few of us having the same issues it is a comcast problem not an isolated one or two customers.... I am sure someone will figure it out and things will come back on soon... (I hope)...

BTW when I called earlier today to order up that 6208 box, it took me a good 20 mins on hold, then after asking him I was on hold again for another 5 mins or so, then the call itself took a good 20 mins, good thing my cordless phone battery was fully charged, cuz if it would have gone out midway thru all that I probably wouldn't have taken the time to call back and sit on hold again...

Bill

I was on hold for well over an hour before hanging up

Still out today, they say they haven't had any other reports....

OK, they just changed their tune. They do know about it. It is out at least State wide, and is a problem with the provider(no signal), not Comcast. Can't believe it took them this long to figure that out.

anyone know of a good stb that will recieve OTA and comcasts hdtv once i decide to get it??

Mine is out today (Sunday) still too, sat on hold for about 35 mins gave up when my daughter wouldn't stop bugging me to take her outside.

Bill

Freon, if you find one let me know too! I love the local OTA stuff but with only one HD input I have to swap the cables out back and forth between the comcast box and my directv mitsubishi box (that I use for the local ota), I WISH the comcast box would allow antenna input for local ota hd...

Originally posted by FTLOSM
I love the local OTA stuff but with only one HD input I have to swap the cables out back and forth between the comcast box and my directv mitsubishi box (that I use for the local ota), I WISH the comcast box would allow antenna input for local ota hd... Have you considered something like this switcher? http://www.smarthome.com/7772.html

http://www.smarthome.com/images/7772_back_big.jpg

It's an auto sensing component/optical/coaxial digital audio switcher, for only $179.99 that will take your one input system and make it a four input. This would be great for game systems too I'd bet. :)

well if there is not one....I might as well just get the myhd-120 for my pc....and use HTPC. that should be able to accept both i think.

Freon,

While myhd-120 might have a QAM tuner, it will not decode the encrypted DTV and HDTV streams that Comcast uses. My Zenith C32V37 has a built in QAM tuner, and the only digital it would pick up off the cable were the music channels. :(

Originally posted by srgilbert
Have you considered something like this switcher? http://www.smarthome.com/7772.html

It's an auto sensing component/optical/coaxial digital audio switcher, for only $179.99 that will take your one input system and make it a four input. This would be great for game systems too I'd bet. :)



I tried the Aucostic Authority switch for a few weeks and experienced problems. I ended up with a zektor switch, which ran $300. It is almost the same but a normal a/v center layout, like a small receiver. It also uses ir remote for switching. Check http://www.zektor.com for info.

http://www.zektor.com/images/HDS4_front_slv_200.jpg

$300 was a little much for a switch, but this one worked with my existing audio system (coax input but no optical) and has remote switching.

I have finally got my setup up and running, and thought I would post what I have and what I've gotten as it may help someone around here some day.


I live in Morrice, just off I-69, right between Lansing and Flint, so I pick up both sets of stations.

First, the antenna is mounted above my garage on a 5 foot mast. It is about 20 feet off the ground in general.

I used a Channel Master 4248 UHF antenna and a Channel Master Rotor (9521)
http://www.channelmaster.com/images/4248.jpg

I also installed a Channel Master Preamp (Model 3041 which is a retail of the Titan 7778) This was all I could find locally and is just slightly less powerful that the popular 7777 model. It has a 23db UHF gain and a 2.2db noise rating.

*** The preamp is very important to success as I tried a generic that was 28db powerful, but had a 4.0db noise rating and had very poor results. Don't skimp on the preamp, it makes a big difference. ***

I use an Dish Network 811 HD Receiver which is fairly new and has some problems, but seems to do the job.

Anyway, here is what I am receiving:

Analog # Digital # Signal Strength Location
6 CBS 59 89 Lansing
10 NBC 57 82 Lansing
18 UPN 34 0 Jackson
23 PBS 55 84 Lansing
43 PAX 44 70 Btl Creek
47 FOX 38 69 Lansing
53 ABC 51 80 Lansing


5 CBS 22 89 Saginaw
12 ABC 36 96 Flint
19 PBS 15 70 Bad Axe
25 NBC 30 89 Saginaw
28 PBS N/A analog only Flint
66 FOX N/A analog only Saginaw

So, quick question for the Lansing crew, has anyone received a signal on 34 (UPN18) or are they not up yet? Thanks!

34? Not even a peep.

Originally posted by srgilbert
Have you considered something like this switcher? http://www.smarthome.com/7772.html



Yeah that actually DOES look awesome, I have an xbox with the hd input pack, the mitsu ota locals hd hookup and the comcast box all 3 of which fight for that one hd line in, altho xbox I just put on the basic component ins vs the one hd input due to only having one true hd game at this time...

But thanks for the idea, I will bookmark that for sure, might ask the wife if I can do something like that here soon, looks like a nice solution/addition to the current problem !!!

Bill

(P.S) still no hd for me, all except espn say shortly yet never go to the actual hd event or program, (black screen with text) but tomorrow I have the tech coming to bring the 6208 so I will ask him what he knows on that and or play dumb and have him check my lines here in person, altho I know and we know it is something larger than my line only being out...

Guy from Comcast called this morning, said the INHD channels were back online today. Guess they fixed them some time this morning. (can't verify this personally)

He was very interested in my procedure for getting DVI to work(sepearate thread) between the Comcast 6200 box and my Zenith C32V37. Said he would pass that info back up the chain. Hopefully they will fix the ROM on the Moto 6200 soon!

They're not up. Anybody have any clue as to when they will be?

Originally posted by masterdeals
So, quick question for the Lansing crew, has anyone received a signal on 34 (UPN18) or are they not up yet? Thanks!

For me here I have them all back up again (espn, inhd, inhd2, hbo), i dont get the showtime but the other 4 are up and runnin fine, funny too cuz I got my 6208 PVR comcast box today and was gonna show the guy the problem yet suddenly (like an hour before he came) it started working again...

btw this 6208 pvr box is ALOT of fun, he also spoke of a newer feature coming very soon to our area, a dual tuner pvr, he wasn't 100% sure if it could be added to the service and box we had or if it would require a new box (seemed to think they might be able to add it to this box service wise) but he said in detroit they already have the service of dual tuner pvr and they will soon they were told we would be getting them here...

Single tuner pvr is fine by me, SO nice to record the inhd stuff or sopranos off hbo and watch later in HD ! My biggest problem is I am SO used to my tivo and its menus its taking me a bit to navigate thru the choices of this one, but so far so good and I have it setup to grab a few favorites and such :)

Not to mention alot of stuff I watch off digital cable I cant get thru my cable splitter and my old basic tivo (without messing with ir remoteand junk) techtv, discovery health etc etc,,,,,


Thanks again go to AJ for letting me know about these boxes in our area, the tech that came today said this was only the second one he has done, also he showed me the newer wires (TERRIBLE THIN SHORTER etc) so I asked and kept the older thicker longer box wires from the 6200 box.... he did say he had 12 footers on the truck but they were the same super ultra thin wires, so I just stayed with the 6200 wires, (seem much nicer), would I ever notice the difference, probably not but sure LOOKED about 1/3 the cable quality wise due to size and thickness - not that that is what MAKES a cable good but even the tech was ashamed to show me the new wires hehe...

Bill

P.S. asked tech about future channels in HD, (this was asked just for fun) he said in the next 3-4 weeks they are gonna be adding a few channels but hes not sure if any are hd, seemed weird he knew something others didnt (most answer with soon) but we can always HOPE....

Originally posted by FTLOSM
Thanks again go to AJ for letting me know about these boxes in our area

Bill,

Glad I could be of assistance. I've certainly enjoyed the 6208, hopefully even more so now that the HD channels are back. Now if we can just get the locals on line too. Since Comcast is so vague about when they'll start sending the network HD signals (they're already to go at the head-end), I've been thinking about the LG LST-3410A to get me by. What do you think?

AJ

Originally posted by mlcarson
They're not up. Anybody have any clue as to when they [WHTV] will be?

Don't hold your breath, or you will get as blue as the background screns to this forum.

In February Spartan TV, LLC filed a request with the FCC to extend the construction permit to October 24, 2004.

In May 2000 Spartan had applied to maximize their power level on channel 34. The FCC identified possible interference with WNIT South Bend, WBSX Ann Arbor, and unbuilt station in Sarnia ON. Additional interference issues were identified with WQHS Cleveland.

Spartan TV indicates in exhibit 1 to the application that the interference issues have been resolved. However, the FCC has not yet acted upon their maximization request.

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=199925

Good info about UPN Gary, thanks.

General Question about East Lansing Comcast Cable picture quality.

Hey guys, wondered if you knew what this is or maybe how to fix it and also wondered if any of you experience the same issues with East Lansing area Comcast Cable TV.

I have tried this straight thru the tv input and thru the digital cable box (same results so its not the box) and even on a different tv (same results so its not the tv) as well as thru many inputs (tivo, straight cable, digital cable etc)...

But I get these weird sideways black pixels with tails to the right side of them amost like black pixels with motion slashes is the best way to describe them and it is only in a few of my channels, they seem to pop up at random all over the screen at will but only on a few channels, the others are all 100% fine, somedays its better somedays its worse, tonight was medium to worse so I grabbed a few pics...

First picture is of them while picture is in motion PLAY mode of tivo....
(while they are in play its noticable but not NEARLY as bad as in still or slowmotion)
http://www.ftlosm.homestead.com/tvpic1.jpg


Second picture is a freeze frame of them in tivo to show them a bit better.
(as you will notice in still frame the black pixels stand out alot easier to see)
http://www.ftlosm.homestead.com/tvpic2.jpg


Just wondering what I can do (is there a filter I can buy or try) or is there something like a grounding issue or something making this happen? Also anyone else have these problems?

Some channels are 100% fine, this acts up on VH1, MTV, Discovery, WB and a few others and again somedays its a little somedays its alot...

Sure would like to know what it is and or how to fix it and if I am the only one with this issue (should I call comcast out?).

Bill :)

Bill, is you box in a cabinet or surrounded by other things? I have a ReplayTV that does similiar things when it is overheating. Just a thought.

I have the strange black tails show up on certain channels as well. I see it using the cable box, or any of my other cable tuners. I would bet problem is with the signal coming from comcast. Overboosted somewhere, or just not a clean feed.

Originally posted by masterdeals
Bill, is you box in a cabinet or surrounded by other things? I have a ReplayTV that does similiar things when it is overheating. Just a thought.

Nope the box is all by itself, and actually I get the same thing on other tvs (with no cable box) as well as on my bigscreen even thru the splitter with no cable box attached, even removed the splitter thinking maybe it was too much of a draw on the line - same problem.

Originally posted by VIVOtheFURY
I have the strange black tails show up on certain channels as well. I see it using the cable box, or any of my other cable tuners. I would bet problem is with the signal coming from comcast. Overboosted somewhere, or just not a clean feed.

I guess since its not just me I will just have to "deal" with it, im sure a call for service from comcast will turn into the usual ---

Tech saying, line strength is fine, btw when you have a big screen you will notice all kinds of artifacts....(thats what they have said in the past to bad pic quality on certain channels)

its a load of bs honestly, that they always say when their subpar picture is the complaint of the call and the person owns a bigscreen.

Bill

Bill, Just looked at your images. I do not have THAT problem. Mine looks more like streaking off the edge of high contrast black to light transitions. Tails always go to the right, same as redraw. Happens even on my ATI 9700AIW drawn to my monitor, so I know it is something in the signal.

Bill, I take that back. Just saw the exact same problem you have on INHD tonight. That was the first time I have ever noticed it. Does not appear to happen on INHD2 or ESPNHD right now. Again, it seems like a source issue. The blotches are fixed in place on the screen, regardless of program.

The picture from WKAR DT (HD) is, for want of a better word, jerky. The subchannel is being decoded correctly and movements are smooth. I think that there is a problem in their encoder. I have a Voom receiver and also can receive through an RCA DTC 100. The RCA100 refuses to decode the high definition and subchannel entirely. Up until about two weeks ago, both receivers were properly decoding the signals.

If the engineer at WKAR TV is reading this, would you please investigate and kindly reply. Also if others on the Lansing forum could also check this out.

Bill

Originally posted by sawmill
The picture from WKAR DT (HD) is, for want of a better word, jerky.
....
If the engineer at WKAR TV is reading this, would you please investigate and kindly reply. Also if others on the Lansing forum could also check this out.

Bill

The problem was with our exciters in the transmitters. But since they both had the same problem, we looked everwhere else first. We rebooted both exciters between noon and 2:00 today. Hopefully it is better now.

Call us or email us if you see problems, I only check the AVS forum once a day or less.

garyb@wkar.msu.edu (517) 432-3120 x 201
johns@wkar.msu.edu (517) 432-3120 x 209

Ok, I am all moved into the new house....have the projector all set up in the basement temporarily.....and I bought a silver sensor to try out on the sylvania ota tuner i found at sears for 200$.

The silver sensor had problems pulling in anything but cbs....I could never see 47.1.....for fox.

I am assuming this may have to do with the aluminum siding that I have...so I tried to stick it up in the attick....still no fox.....(maybe fox hd was off air last night??).

Well I took it back...decided I would just band a mast to the chimney real quick and bought the radio shack cheapy...for 23.00$

I have not bought a rotor or anything yet...cause im not sure I will be needing one??

I pointed it at about 230 degrees.....and I pick up WAY better reception than i did with the indoor one.

I get cbs great...fox great....channel 10.1 is great.....but I didnt see Wlaj tonight....and PBS 43.1 seems to come and go..


Just wondering for now if 230degree is a good spot to point this thing....since i have no rotor at this time???

Originally posted by freon
I pointed it at about 230 degrees.....and I pick up WAY better reception than i did with the indoor one.

I get cbs great...fox great....channel 10.1 is great.....but I didnt see Wlaj tonight....and PBS 43.1 seems to come and go..


Just wondering for now if 230degree is a good spot to point this thing....since i have no rotor at this time???

Did you use a preamp? If not you are getting most channels without it and would probally get everything with one.

43.1 is PAX about 40 miles west from Lansing. If you want a better lock on this channel you would need a rotor. Look for 51 which is ABC, and 55 which is PBS. If you pull those in that you pretty much have everything Lansing has to offer.

If you cannot pick those two up, but can get FOX, you probally need to tweak the direction and add a preamp, which makes a big difference.

edit: 43.1 meant to say 23.1 for WKAR.

No not using a pre amp...where would this go? and how much am I looking to spend on one.

Originally posted by freon


Just wondering for now if 230 degree is a good spot to point this thing....since i have no rotor at this time???

Sorry, there is no good angle to point an antenna from Lansing.

You might check out http://www.antennaweb.org This site is sponsored by the Consmer Electronics Association. Type in your Zip code and it will tell you what signals you should expect to be able to receive from your location.

For example at zip code 48911:

WKAR 83 degrees
WLNS 91 degrees
WLAJ / WHTV 178 degrees (same tower, but, whtv dt isn't on air yet)
WILX 186 degrees
WSYM 201 degrees

The 43 you mentioned, WXPX, would be at 276 degrees.

DTV signals using the ATSC 8VSB modulation scheme are notorious for lack of tolerance to multipath signals (ghosting)

If you do use a directional antenna, it seems that their pick up is worst 90 degrees off axis. As you can see, not good for the Lansing market.

Guess if you aimed the antenna at Ann Arbor, then all of the Lansing stations would be about 45 degrees off axis, maybe if your antenna beamwidth is wide enought that might work?

Does anyone know if Comcast in Lansing sends any unscrambled HD channels? I heard ESPN HD is unscrambled, and all I need to get it is a QAM compliant tuner. I have extended basic now, and I don't feel like paying an extra $20/month ($15 for lowest digital package and $5 for HD) just to get the two InHD channels. So if I can get ESPN for free, I'll buy an OTA tuner and antenna.

Can anyone verify this?
Anyone know of a good OTA tuner w/QAM?

Thanks

Thanks to all those who responded to the Comcast PVR offer. I have forwarded all information, and you should be contacted, if you've not been already.

All future requests should go directly to Comcast; 800 COMCAST

I keep seeing the images go out of focus for awhile, then drift back into focus during Game 1 of the NBA Finals on WJRT. Most replays were just blurry. Also seeing periodic pixelation.

Also, I thought ABC was 720p, but FusionHDTV was reporting 1080i for both WLAJ and WJRT. Did I miss a memo on the format change?

Is this just my system, or is ABC actually sending less-than-pristine images?

Geordon

No, not your set, I am seeing it happening here as well.

Hello, Thanks for all the continuing information regarding Lansing and the surrounding area. I finally got the e-mail last week that Comcast now had HD in the Eaton Rapids area, but because of their limited channels I am still staying with DirecTV for now. Did the DTC-210 ever make it into production??

I have a friend who lives in the Haslett area and has Comcast but no HD yet. Being that it is in East Lansing, does anyone know when Haslett will be up and running? Also do the Motorola 6200 or 6208 that they supply have off air tuner. Would he be better off to invest now in a quality LG receiver that has off air/Cable (future) and if so what would be some of the better model choices..Thanks Much.

John

well from what I have read...you are never going to get OTA reception with any reciever from comcast.

If I was him, I would just goto sears and buy the Sylvania Tuner for less than 199.00. I did and it works great for all lansing area has to offer.

I have comcast too...but like you said, not enough hd content to fork out money for more than just basic1 for me.

Hi,
I am in East Lansing, right next to Frandor mall on 43 East.
I have Dish Network(Dish 811 receiver). I bought a Zenitha silver sensor last night and was able to tune to ABC, WLAJ-HD, WLAJ-SD. But I am not sure whether I am getting the best possible signal. The NBA games that I used to get on ESPNHD and TNT on Dish were outstanding compared to what I get now. Also the picture on WLAJ is not full screen, get vertical black bars.

Guys any suggestions.

The list of channels I was able to tune so far.

WLNS-DT (CBS)
47 - WSYM -HD
WSYM - SD
WLAJ-HD
WLAJ-SD

thanks
S Ram

Originally posted by rbs
Hi,
I am in East Lansing, right next to Frandor mall on 43 East.
I have Dish Network(Dish 811 receiver). I bought a Zenitha silver sensor last night and was able to tune to ABC, WLAJ-HD, WLAJ-SD. But I am not sure whether I am getting the best possible signal. The NBA games that I used to get on ESPNHD and TNT on Dish were outstanding compared to what I get now. Also the picture on WLAJ is not full screen, get vertical black bars.

Guys any suggestions.

The list of channels I was able to tune so far.

WLNS-DT (CBS)
47 - WSYM -HD
WSYM - SD
WLAJ-HD
WLAJ-SD

thanks
S Ram
Hey neighbor, from the sound of it, you aren't more than a few blocks from me.

When I started with OTA HD about 18 months ago, I had very little luck with the Silver Sensor as locals were hard to come by. Nowadays, it's probably better, but I ended up with an outdoor antenna.

In addition to the ones you mentioned, you should also be able to get WKAR-DT (23) from MSU as well as the local NBC affilliate WILX-DT (57). I'd suggest www.antennaweb.org to get a better idea of the location for these towers.

As far as WLAJ, they've been a real stinker in Lansing. It has taken FOREVER for them to get their DT signal on the air and now that they are, they are only in SD, no HD yet so far as I've seen. I think most of us use our outdoor antenna and point them NE to get WJRT (36) from Flint to get an HD signal, although it's pretty unlikely you could get it on an indoor antenna.

Welcome to the board!

:)

Originally posted by freon
well from what I have read...you are never going to get OTA reception with any reciever from comcast. Correct.

WLAJ is not brodcasting HD, you can try 36 (WJRT) from flint or 20 (WOTV) from Battle Creek. Both are broadcasting ABC HD.

I get both Lansing and Flint ABC, basically, WLAJ broadcast of the Pistons is a joke!

Is PBS the only HD available then? Is there any website tht gives a info about Lansing HD programming options.

I live in an apartment and my antenna options are limited. Already my Super Dish has taken up a major portion of my balcony. My wife hates the current antenna sitting on top of my TV. Any ideas on outdoor antennae that will fit my balcony.

thanks
S Ram

Originally posted by rbs
Is PBS the only HD available then? Is there any website tht gives a info about Lansing HD programming options.

I live in an apartment and my antenna options are limited. Already my Super Dish has taken up a major portion of my balcony. My wife hates the current antenna sitting on top of my TV. Any ideas on outdoor antennae that will fit my balcony.

thanks
S Ram

Plenty of HD, just missing ABC.

CBS 59, NBC 57, FOX 38 (ED), PAX 44 (SD) ABC 51 (SD ONLY)

All should be good from Lansing with almost any outdoor antenna. There are some that can clip onto the dish by Terk that I have had success with in the past, but the do not work for everyone. Make sure you can return it in case it doesn't help.

Plus of course you may be able to get one of the ABC HD stations.

Originally posted by rbs
Is PBS the only HD available then? Is there any website tht gives a info about Lansing HD programming options. What do you think this topic is about? Read it.

I have the Comcast PVR HD 6208 box and so far its great and I am loving the ability to record HD! It is no tivo (crude menus, no timeline as your watching it, when you hit start from FF mode it doesn't jump you back a few seconds, and the record programs menus are just plain not user friendly). BUT I can overlook all that and say I AM very happy to have HD and a PVR box thru comcast (even with only 5 channels so far).

My question is this for anyone with the same setup as I (widescreen, the above mentioned box etc etc), when i watch channels 1-78 on the right side of the screen I have a strip that goes down the side that is about 1 inch thick that is pure black going up and down (almost like a one sided mini sidebar). When I get into the upper channels 105 and higher I have a 100% full screen.

When I go to my tivo input (or any other cable input or item input) the split of that cable thru the devices (vcr, one straight in, one thru tivo) all look fine and fill the screen 100% EXCEPT when using the comcast 6208 box.

I can't recall if my 6200 box did it (only had it a short time) but its annoying how 1-78 all have that black side bar and I wondered if it was just me.

I don't think this is an issue of a misaligned or out of whack overscan type thing, my set was ISF'ed and is still even after being moved in great shape geometry and convergance wise from what I can see in the advanced menus, so I doubt something is THAT much outta whack - plus all other inputs and sources into the tv show as 100% full screen, even the higher channels - just the 1-78's on the 6208.

Just wanted to see if anyone else experienced this or not and if not I might just be calling them out to bring me a new box or something...unless its something simple that I didnt see in the menus or something, but being the one side only and only being about an inch and a half thick on only 1-78 channels started to make me wonder if my box is acting up...

Bill

I suspect a lot of people also point at WOTV in Battle Creek rather than WJRT in Flint. They're both about 48 miles from me and I get a better signal strength from WOTV and I believe it's got the better picture. You could probably get one of the 2 signals with an attic antenna but not with a small indoor one.

Originally posted by srgilbert
I think most of us use our outdoor antenna and point them NE to get WJRT (36) from Flint to get an HD signal, although it's pretty unlikely you could get it on an indoor antenna.