It wouldn't be hard to have a better picture than WJRT, even if you skip the distortion they add by stretching, they are also running a number of sub- channels that eat up a lot of the bandwidth for HD. When I do a comparison between them and WXYZ DT, WJRT is much softer. If/when WLAJ goes HD it will be one less reason to swing my antenna toward Detroit, the only remaining channel I really need from Detroit is WB-HD. I won't watch any of the Flint channels.

On another issue, any idea what WILX does to their audio feed on their HD channel? I've really been getting some bass action with my sub, lots of LFE info. Don't get me wrong I like it, I know NBC doesn't do 5.1 yet so I appreciate WILX's processing, to me it sounds fine.

Thanks for your responses. Will have to start looking at bigger antennas I think.

For those to the east of Lansing, PBS WFUM is now up on channel 52. This gives most of us 2-4 PBS stations depending on where you are.

Anyone locally here in East Lansing who has tried that VOOM service?

If so what do you think of the HD quality and can you get locals thru the box in hd too with it?

I have comcast right now and its ok I guess but it sure would be nice to have more hd content...

Bill

anybody else see the brief moments during tonights NBA Finals pre-game where WLAJ 51-1 went HD? Pretty nice.. but no audio.. Wonder if they will get it up and running for tonights game!

WKAR-DT will be off air June 30 and/or July 1st. Our mask filter has been running hot and we have a factory engineer scheduled to come on the 30th or 1st to evaluate, disassemble, and hopefully put it back together those days.

Gary, thanks for the update, you and everyone at WKAR are the best at keeping us informed and helping when there is a problem. I was talking to a reporter with The Flint Journal the other day about HD and used you and WKAR as an example of how the transition to HD is handled properly - great communication, listening to viewers and willing to track down problems.

Speaking of WKAR-TV, they are having an open house this Saturday (6/19) to celebrate their 50th aniversary.

This is from the site http://wkar.org/wkarfifty/
WKAR celebrates 50 years of television broadcasting.

Celebrate With Us!
WKAR-TV 50th Anniverary Open House
Saturday June 19, 2004
Noon-4 p.m. at WKAR-TV!
Free!

* Meet Caroll Spinney, the legendary puppeteer who created and still performs as “Big Bird” and “Oscar the Grouch” on “Sesame Street”
* Arthur and Clifford will pose for photos with kids! Bring your camera!
* Meet WKAR-TV’s Tim Skubick (“Off the Record”) and Matt Ottinger (“QuizBusters”).
* Register to win several door prizes.
* Tour WKAR’s studios, meet our staff and journey down our “History Walk,” capturing some of the key moments of WKAR’s 50 years!

Free parking is available in the ramp adjacent to the building.

Of course, the biggest point of interest that will be there is none other than our friend Gary giving a demonstation of DTV! (Sorry Gary, you are probably cringing at the idea of a bunch of us dorks coming down to bug you!) :D

Maybe I'll see some of you guys there.......:cool:

Gary, this is Dick the CE from WZPX, is your mask filter a dielectric?

Wow, how things have changed. A few months ago most of us in this area had no PBS HD- then WKAR powered up their equipment and at last we had PBS HD available. I've been anxiously waiting for the new season of Soundstage and PBS HD ran Fleetwood Mac Live from Boston tonight. I bounced between the 4, yes 4 (!) PBS HD outlets I now have available and the differences were interesting. Overall I think that WTVS-DT from Detroit did the best job; for some reason the picture seemed a bit sharper ( they do run a sub channel too), and the DD 5.1 seemed much more "live" for lack of a better word. WKAR-DT is a close second, though the picture seems a bit softer and the DD 5.1 didn't have the punch that WTVS did. WFUM Flint looked OK but their audio is messed up with about a second delay, hard to watch, but they just went live last week. WDCQ Delta Collage Saginaw comes in last only because they didn't do DD 5.1, PQ was OK though. WTVS has been doing HD for a number of years so they have a lot of experience, but what I found interesting was the amount of variance in the audio portion. It looks like each station is doing some sort of audio processing of their own, Gary - is that true? The levels varied widely among the stations too.

Overall this wasn't the sharpest HD I've seen, I wondered if they filtered it, some of the upcoming shows in the promo after the show look stunning and the softness of the Fleetwood Mac shots was very apparent. Regardless I still enjoyed the show and was very happy to have PBS HD available. It was kind of fun to see how each station handled the feed.

Originally posted by Matt L

Overall this wasn't the sharpest HD I've seen, I wondered if they filtered it, some of the upcoming shows in the promo after the show look stunning and the softness of the Fleetwood Mac shots was very apparent. Well, you know Stevie Nicks isn't as young as she used to be, and does anyone really want to see Mick Fleetwood with the sharpest PQ possible? ;)

Actually, I'm sorry I missed it, will have to check the schedule for a repeat.

Originally posted by pax43
Gary, this is Dick the CE from WZPX, is your mask filter a dielectric?

yep.

Dielectric antenna, transmission line, combiner, and mask filter.
ABS analog transmitter. Axcera digital transmitter. Nucomm microwave. Tandberg multiplexer and encoders. Triveni PSIP. Evertz mini master control switcher, Digital Vision Bit Link receivers.

Very nice plant!

I was wondering about the mask filter as several of our stations have had problems along the same lines, and I was just being curious.

We are analog to the transmitter, Thales encoding equipment, Thales transmitter, Dielectric line and antenna.

We multicast 4 channel of programming.

Love to see your plant someday when you have the time.


Dick Castanie
Chief Engineer
WZPX

Two things to ask here real quick,

Anyone have VOOM locally here? If so what do you think are the HD channels good quality and is there really alot more content?

Secondly, local (lansing area) home theater stores... (just moved in this area in april) found one place called the Stereo Shoppe in lansing, are they pretty good (price, service, selection wise?) looking to upgrade a few things in my system and find a store with more selection than say Best Buy.

Thanks for any replies or answers.

Bill :)

stereo shop is only place I know of around lansing.

On Jolly Rd just west of Okemos Rd is the place to go for home theater. They have 3 or 4 rooms with DLP, CRT, Plasma, and RPTV set ups, from Pioneer, Marantz, Runco, McIntosh, Def Tech, Monitor, etc. Their web site is simply their name.com. If you want anything better, you will have to look towards Grand Rapids or Detroit areas.

Great place in Brighton ~30minutes away.
Forget the name...it's on Grand River, and is connected to the same building as the roller rink.

There's actually two in Brighton. Triax Audio Video is in the same building as is Rollerrama II. AVIO also just opened a few months ago on Hilton, just East of Grand River, just North of 96. I've been in both of them once, and they each have several audition rooms and some nice gear. Never bought from either. Not affiliated with either.

Another suggestion is to go to google, click "more", then "google local". Enter "home theater" and your zip and you should get a nice list of them near you. Enjoy! :)

Anyone here ever bought Klipsch speakers online vs in store?
I know you don't get the warranty coverage but in some cases (from what I have seen price wise) it might be worth buying online.... wondered what your experiences may have been with doing so, My local shop wants $575 + tax for the speakers I want, online I have found them as cheap as $400 + $40 for shipping and no tax, just wondering if others have gone the online route.

I want to support my local shop and such but when your looking at such a savings online heck I can even go to the next level speaker for the difference in cost...

Is it too good to be true?

Bill

I have only bought my klipsch promedia speakers online...so I guess that dont count.

I usually buy everything online though...and have yet to fall into a warranty issue. (cept ebay)

Hi there...new poster from Grand Ledge. Just recently moved here from out of state. Really happy about all the major networks being available in HD out of Lansing. Here's my setup....Samsung 50" DLP TV. Brand new DirecTV HD TIVO. And Silver Sensor indoor antenna for OTA channels. As of right now I pick up WLAJ (90% signal), WLNS (82% signal), WSYM (58% signal). I am not able to get a signal on NBC (WILX) at all. I ordered a Channel Master 7775 preamp and it did not help. Thinking about buying a Winegard Square Shooter and installing it outdoors. Anyone have any suggestions on why I am unable to pick up WILX? Anyone else in the Grand Ledge area have a setup that they found works well? Appreciate any input.

Some people in the area have had good luck with those little disk antennas like the Channelmaster 3000A at http://www.starkelectronic.com/cm3000a.htm.

If I were doing it over, I'd get a Channelmaster 4228. 8 bay bowtie. I have the 4248 combined with a VHF antenna cut for channel 7 (Grand Rapids) that works very well though.

WKAR is now using statistical multiplexing (aka variable bit rate) on our DT service. i.e. we're dynamically allocating bits between the HD 23-1 and SD 23-2 services.

Let us know if you think is is as good as/worse than/or the same as before quality wise.

Thanks.

gary, will do. Question- I tuned into Soundstage last night but you weren't passing DD 5.1, what happened? I flipped over to WFUM and they did do DD 5.1, so it was available.


Unrelated to WKAR, has anyone contacted WLAJ about their sound issues on their HD channel? It's good to see they have HD capability now but the static drives me crazy.

Originally posted by Matt L
gary, will do. Question- I tuned into Soundstage last night but you weren't passing DD 5.1, what happened? I flipped over to WFUM and they did do DD 5.1, so it was available.



oops. When we were upgrading the encoder software, we had to use our back-up encoder, which is wired for only two channel sound. When we changed back to the main encoder, we forgot to switch back to 5.1

Hey all, I am about 6 months into being in this new house in East Lansing, so far so good, but I was just wondering if any of you in the east lansing area might possibly have VOOM? If so how is the reception/quality of hd?

I have stopped using my Mitsu SRHD5 box for local OTA HD and I have got the comcast 6208 PVR box but I am SO close to just cancelling comcast...

The comcast box (this may just be my box or our local east lansing cable) but it CONSTANTLY breaks up and or pauses during viewing or playback of HD content and there are only those 5 channels (4 of which I get - I didnt do showtime), so that cutting out and limited channel choice is VERY annoying... comcast came out and they said the box was fine and the line was fine, (thats not acceptable to me)...

Also wondered on the VOOM box (or any other services we can get in our area) can I input an antenna and get my locals in HD thru their ONE box? That is onething this comcast box wont do that I feel it is seriously lacking function wise.

Also are there any East Lansing area Home Theater Get Together type events? If so where or when is the next one?

& just in case if anyone is interested i am gonna be selling a few small home theater related things, (and some other stuff) in our area, (east lansing)...just after moving in here and going thru some of these things I realized I have too much stuff...

check out the link if interested (contact info also on the page)

http://eastlansingforsale.homestead.com/items.html

I have an over 280 positive feedback rating on ebay (0 negatives) FTLOSM is my seller name btw on ebay for reference, but all these items are located in East Lansing for anyone to come by and or see...


Bill :)

Bill,

I'm in E.R., and have no pixelation or dropouts on the three HD channels I get (I'm not subscribed to HBO or Showtime).

I am, however, struggling with another problem. My system includes the Comcast box, DVD player (which doesn't enter into this tale again), my HDTV (Panny PT50-LC13) and a standard VCR. I am trying to simply receive SDTV to the VCR to tape late night Cartoon Network...

- If I run a cable from the cable box to the VCR in addition to component or DVI in to the HDTV as indicated by the DCT6200 instructions, the TV displays a large black box in the middle of the screen if the VCR is on and receiving, whether or not the HDTV is displaying the VCR input, and whether or not I route the VCR to the HDTV through a coax or through a video RCA out.
- If I send the line out from the TV to the VCR, black box as above.
- If I split the cable feed before it gets to the Comcast box, black box as above.
- If I unplug the Comcast box entirely, black box as above.
- Before I got the Comcast box, there was no trouble, and a second setup in the house with a SDTV and the same VCR works fine.

Arghhh.

BTW FS2004 is retailing for $20 these days...

Last night was a good night for reception on HDTV... What's the farthest signal you folks have picked up and have actually been able to watch?

I picked up WISN out of Milwaukee on channel 34 (175 miles) and WFWA out of Ft. Wayne on channel 40 (111 miles) last night in addition to all of the Toledo stations (88 miles) and Detroit stations (70 miles). Too bad these signals don't hold in the daytime....

Hi there,

Is WILX(NBC) doing the olympics telecast in HD. Their website does not give any details.

If not what are my options. My search on nbc.com led to this page.

http://www.nbc.com/nbc/header/Local_Stations/michigan.shtml

Has anyone had success with indoor antennas in getting the Detroit or Flint stations.

My last trial with Zenith silver sensor did not work out well and I ended up giving it back.

Any suggestions on a better indoor antenna or smaller outdoor antenna(balcony mountable).

thanks

S Ram

I've had decent luck pulling in WEYI, digital channel 30. Of course, the don't have the greatest history with HD.

WEYI F/S/BC has new owners, and the chief engineer is working on the kinks. I spoke to him about a problem and he was interested and willing to fix it, so things are improving there. As to WILX why wouldn't they or any station do the Olympics in HD? They have the equipment in place, are using it now, and the Olympics are a premiere event drawing lots of viewers, is there a down side?

I sent WILX an e-mail last week. Ask if they were broadcasting the Olympics in HD. They did not bother to respond..... Big Shock there eh???

Originally NBC's web site showed that they were going to have a 24/7 HD feed available, but that has since been modified.

I too sent an email to WILX about 10 days back. No replies.

I was checking their program listing here.

http://titantvguide.titantv.com/apg/grid.aspx?siteid=50166

olympic schedule is NOT HD.

The WILX station chief engineer replied to my email.

" WILX will be airing the NBC Olympic feed 7 days a week 24 hours a day throughout the Olympics. We broadcast digitally on channel 57. Once you tune in channel 57, it will appear on your receiver as 10-1."

I had a very interesting chat with comcast (east lansing) today on the phone, see I was having some trouble with my hd box cutting out at times and had requested via email that someone come look at my signals or my box etc.

A tech called me today and just chatting about hd and comcast and such I asked if he knew of any developments of getting any locals or extra channels in hd on comcast anytime soon.

He menitioned that WILX would be the next to be added and it would be done anyday now (I was shocked to hear that soo soon it maybe added).

Who knows if he is accurate or correct, just forwarding what the comcast technical guy was telling me (he explained something about channel assignments and such and said something about the papers were being signed within days now and should be up asap).

He also mentioned cinemax in hd soon coming to comcast too but didnt give me any dates,,,,

The guy did seem nice and good at explaining the box and functions and such via the phone, so who knows maybe he is correct (i hope) and soon WILX will be available in hd thru comcasts boxes.

Just my 2 cents,

Bill :)

Message on my comcast hd 6208 pvr today,

Reads :

----------------
Summer Olympics in HDTV!

Watch HDTV coverage of the Summer Olympics on NBC channel 100 August 13th thru 29th call 1 888 comcast to order today!

To recieve hd features a hd converter box and hd tv set are required.


-----------------

Called comcast this morning to see if I had to pay some extra fee or anything (being a current hd viewer of theirs wondered if this was an addon or anything) their response was...

"If I have an hd box and hd set channel 100 will display the hd olympics free starting aug 13th"

So thats VERY cool to hear and read, wonder if or when regular NBC programming will come to comcast...


Bill

still holding out, the OTA tuner is keeping my happy for now.
Good to hear about comcast though, its about time!!

One cool thing is last night channel 100 started showing up and I watched a rerun of SNL and the conan o brien show, would like to see the channel just stay on as the nbc station after the olympics (thats what I am hoping for)...

Bill :)

For me, NBC and PBS are the most difficult channels to get a solid signal using my indoor antenna.
I wonder if my Samsung 151 can get the channel 100 easier. In other words, is the signal origin and strength the same as for channel 10?

Originally posted by Adrian D
For me, NBC and PBS are the most difficult channels to get a solid signal using my indoor antenna.
I wonder if my Samsung 151 can get the channel 100 easier. In other words, is the signal origin and strength the same as for channel 10?

My understanding is that channel 10.1 (aka 57) operates at very low power from their transmitter in Onondaga, legally they only have to cover their city of license, which is Onondaga.

Channel 100 is only available to Comcast subscribers.

Comcast has told me that WKAR-DT should be available in East Lansing/Lansing about September 18th.

Adrian, what problems are you having receiving PBS, I assume, WKAR. Please give me a call on Monday and we'll see if we can help.



Gary Blievernicht
garyb@wkar.msu.edu
432-3120 x 201

I don't think WILX 57 (10.1) is low power Gary, they come in very strong for me in Flushing, as do you. The are the only station that's doing the Olympics in DD 5.1, WDIV Detroit was supposed to but tonight it was DD 2.0 as was WEYI, so I'm glad I have access to WILX.

Originally posted by Matt L
I don't think WILX 57 (10.1) is low power Gary, they come in very strong for me in Flushing, as do you. The are the only station that's doing the Olympics in DD 5.1, WDIV Detroit was supposed to but tonight it was DD 2.0 as was WEYI, so I'm glad I have access to WILX.


It is low, but probably not as low as I may have lead you to believe.

WILX-DT is authorized 946.7kW at 299 meters.

They have an Special temporary authorization to operate at 43.4kW at 258 meters.

The VHF stations were given a priority in power level assignments. Almost all VHF stations were allocated nearly 1,000,000 watts, while existing UHF stations were typically authorized about 50kW.

All said, WILX's coverage at 43kW should be about 38.6 miles. At full power, their coverage should be about 51 miles. (to the 48dBu power level
(assumes a receive antenna at 30 feet, outdoors)

Golly, but from Flushing, you must have one heck of an antenna.

By way of comparison, WKAR's 48dB coverage is 41 miles, (with an allocated 56kW of power) essentially the same as WILX's.

Both WILX and WKAR (as well as WLNS) are on temporary channels. Channels above 51 will revert to the government so they can be sold after the conversion period. (Actually channel 55 has already been sold to Qualcom, they just don't get to use it, until we get out of their way)

From a management standpoint, it is very difficult to justify a multi-million dollar build out to put a 1,000,000 watt signal on a temporary channel, knowing that you will have to give it up in a few years and move elsewhere.

Last fall, I was getting WILX at 99% in Mason. Now that the Olympics are on, signal strength is hovering aroung 37% to 41% -- not enough for my Fusion II to provide anything to watch.

On the other hand, I don't have any problem picking up Battle Creek and Kalamazoo with my DAT-75 antenna and rotator.

BTW, very nice pictures coming out of WKAR-DT.

Originally posted by garybliev
My understanding is that channel 10.1 (aka 57) operates at very low power from their transmitter in Onondaga, legally they only have to cover their city of license, which is Onondaga.

Channel 100 is only available to Comcast subscribers.

Comcast has told me that WKAR-DT should be available in East Lansing/Lansing about September 18th.

Adrian, what problems are you having receiving PBS, I assume, WKAR. Please give me a call on Monday and we'll see if we can help.



Gary Blievernicht
garyb@wkar.msu.edu
432-3120 x 201
Hi Gary,
I think my problem is just trying to adjust my indoor antenna properly.

I keep having to tweak it to get a solid signal.

I have figured out how to adjust for Fox and CBS so I can get get them without dropouts (a different position for each one, however), and I just need to find the correct position for PBS.

I hope next year to have the time and money for an outdoor antenna, ideally with a rotor.

Thanks for your response.
Adrian

Why is Comcast in the Lansing area so slow to get the local affiliates in HD? Also, does anyone know if NBA TV's HD games will be available on Comcast? Thanks!
Dan

Million Dollar question Dan, wish I knew too, if comcast didn't have this HD PVR box (that I am liking so much) I would be dropping them and just replacing that box with my OTA signal box, for now (instead of having both boxes hooked up) I am hoping for hd locals content soon thru comcast but as for what date that is the golden question...

If by the first of the year things still aren't up and running (locals in hd thru comcast) I will probably just give the hd box back and use my ota box for locals...

Bill

What is this HD PVR box you speak of?I'm very interested.
Thanks
Dan

I'm in Okemos here, and besides Comcast being so slow to get locals in HD in this area, why is it taking so long for them to launch any PVRs?? I keep hearing that the 6208 will be available "in a month or two". So does that mean we'll have to wait until next year to see the dual-tuner model in our area? Ugh.

I actually saw someone here talking about their 6208 motorola PVR hd comcast box and I had just gotten the 6200 (same box without the pvr feature) like 2 weeks prior to reading the post about the 6208...

That guy was near the mall in Lansing and said he just got his HD PVR box, so i called the cable company and said I want that 6208 not this 6200 box for its pvr features...

They set me up for home install the next week, and since they had just installed the 6200 they waived the install fee on the 6208.

I have had it about a month now, VERY nice box, make no mistake its no tivo (way less features and abilities), and its more per month ($12 is what I pay per month for it, vs $5 for the basic hd comcast box that has no recording options) but the PVR is SO nice for recording some hd content to show off to family and friends...

Now we just gotta get more hd content thru comcast in our area!

Bill :)

What is up with all the swimming and gymnastics on the wilx-DT
when are we gonna see some olympic basketball :confused:

Last fall, I was getting WILX at 99% in Mason. Now that the Olympics are on, signal strength is hovering aroung 37% to 41% -- not enough for my Fusion II to provide anything to watch.

Something has definitely changed at WILX. As recently as a month ago, I was receiving them at almost 100%. Now, they flutter between 10-40% -- too weak to watch. What has happened?!?!

BTW, I'm using a ADTV card and an rooftop-mounted CM 4221 antenna. My house is 22 miles from the WILX tower.

Chris,

This is maddening, especially with the Olympics being on. I feel like I am outside the stadium with a ticket, but no one will take it. Time for a phone call.

I have not notice any diff in signal strength from 2 months ago to now, I do live in south lansing so I am pretty close and I have roof mount with rotor.

all you guys are missing is gymnastics and swimming though :(

I sent an email to engineering@wilx.com last night, and here was their response:

Try deleting all channels in your receiver, and then reprogram. Several
manufacturers of digital recievers have had this problem. Also, you might
try a lower quality antenna. Perhaps even a hoop would be better than a
high gain, directional antenna. We've been using a low cost antenna from
Radio Shack, cost about $35, with very good results. In the mean time, I'll
send a crew out and we'll do a few measurements to verify signal strength.
Thanks for letting me know of a possible problem.

Gary King
WILX Chief Engineer

Also, you might try a lower quality antenna. Perhaps even a hoop would be better than a high gain, directional antenna.

Yes, that's probably my problem. My antenna is too good. :rolleyes:

I am in the same boat -- my DAT75 is *too* directional. I guess it can't pick up all the broken up signals scattered around Lansing. And I just rebuilt my HTPC, so I don't know how I can delete the channels from my Fusion card any better than that.

But, what the heck. I will bust out my 20 year old RatShack rabbit ears with the funny UHF ring. I will post my results tonight. Maybe, I can start picking up those Detroit stations with it, too!

Originally posted by FTLOSM

"If I have an hd box and hd set channel 100 will display the hd olympics free starting aug 13th"

Bill

Argh, I need to read here more often it seems :) I'd checked WILX's listings, saw no HDTV stuff, and resigned myself to SD Olympics; meanwhile HD was on the wire waiting to be viewed!

The other problem I had on page 27 turned out to be my kid having fooled around with closed captioning settings on the TV...

when checking the lineup on wilx website you have to click it over to the wilx-DT listings to see the HD stuff. In case you didnt know.

Here's the results of my preliminary tests using my Radio Shack Color Supreme V VHF/UHF/FM antenna connected to my Fusion II card...

0% signal strength on all UHF channels (only tested DT)

Last night, WILX didn't even move the signal strength meter - zero, nada.

I just went and checked WILX-DT, now -just before noon-, and it's hitting 92 on my Sylvania tuner, right where it has been for me. Don't know what's going on out your way but it's weird. BTW I'm using the Televes and CM preamp combo...

I continue to receive a reliable signal from WILX. I had problems when they first came up but changed the location of my cheap Radio Shack double bowtie antenna and now receive all the Lansing area stations without problem. I'm in the DeWitt area north of I-69 and west of Old 27.

I guess I have to look again at my end to see if there is a problem. It just doesn't make sense to me that I'm getting a good signal from WLAJ and WSYM (same direction and distance as WILX), but almost nothing from WILX. By the way, I'm actually in Williamston, not East Lansing.

I am in East Lansing and have noticed the same recent, sharp decline in the WILX signal. All the others remain strong.

Originally posted by Chris White
I guess I have to look again at my end to see if there is a problem. It just doesn't make sense to me that I'm getting a good signal from WLAJ and WSYM (same direction and distance as WILX), but almost nothing from WILX. By the way, I'm actually in Williamston, not East Lansing.


Makes sense to me:

WILX has a special temporary authorization to operate at 43.4kW
WSYM has a STA to operate at 646kW
WLAJ is licensed to operate at 900kW

Gary, is this temporary authorization something that is fairly recent?

For what it's worth, I continue to receive a good signal on WILX-DT. I'm on the north side of Jackson, about 13 miles away from the transmitter and using a large Channel Master rooftop antenna. I can't say if signal strength has declined at all since the Samsung tuner I use doesn't really have a good meter for that.

Originally posted by Chris White
Gary, is this temporary authorization something that is fairly recent?

No.

WILX has been very directional for me. I'm using a Silver Sensor with a Hughes E86 box. It's either 100% or too jumpy to get a solid signal. None of the other stations are like that for me... at least I can get it. Luckily, I've found a "magic spot" behind the TV wher I can get all of the stations without messing with the antenna.

I get WILX at 75-81% with my statically positioned garage antenna which is supposed to be pointed in the opposite direction at (WKAR and WLNS). When I point my main rotor antenna directly at it, I get it at 100% and can pick it up for about +/- 40 degrees from on target. I'm only 13 miles from the station in south Holt according to antennaweb.org but that's about the same as all of the other Lansing stations. The garage antenna is a bowtie and the main house antenna is a yagi. I haven't noticed any deterioration at this distance since it went live. WILX is at bearing 196 from me according to antennaweb.

I am watching the Olympics on Comcast Channel 100. Nice that Comcast picked up the HD feed.

Anyone else think that NBC is not giving us a full bandwith HD feed out of Athens? I see much more blocking in fast motion on this channel than I do on either of the INHD channels or ESPNHD. Is this feed being downsampled to save transimission cost too the States, then upsampled again for broadcast(normal 14.999 video rate)? Or is there only on HD cam on some of the carts to feed all nations that is a 720p camera being sampled up to 1080i for NBC?

Originally posted by garybliev


Comcast has told me that WKAR-DT should be available in East Lansing/Lansing about September 18th.

Gary Blievernicht
garyb@wkar.msu.edu
432-3120 x 201

Gary, please tell me that Comcast is going to use the original full bit rate 1080i feed that you get from PBS, not your split variable bit rate 720p signal.

My 1080i set and I will thank you! :-)

Mystery solved!!

Not being able to get WILX for the past two weeks has been driving me crazy. I couldn't imagine why every other station was okay, but the WILX signal had gone from 95% to 0%.

I didn't see how the problem could be with the coax or with the receiver, since
reception for all other frequencies (38, 51, 55, and 59) were good. That left the antenna.

Today, I went up on the roof and moved the antenna around all over the roof, while also trying different elevations, angles, directions, you name it. Nothing helped. Rats!

Thinking about every possible link in the chain, I remembered that the coax connects through a Monster surge protector (seems like a sane thing to do with an outside antenna). I couldn't imagine how that could impact only one frequency, but I disconnected the coax from the surge protector and connected it directly to the receiver. To my complete surprise, the signal for WILX returned to 95+% - rock solid. The problem is the surge protector! Apparently, something must have happened a couple of weeks ago to fowl the surge protector. I have no idea how it could be affecting just one channel, but that's what it was doing. It looks like I need a new surge protector.

woohoo!

Originally posted by VIVOtheFURY
Gary, please tell me that Comcast is going to use the original full bit rate 1080i feed that you get from PBS, not your split variable bit rate 720p signal.

My 1080i set and I will thank you! :-)

Last I'd heard is that Comcast will just take our feed directly and process it into their system (changing it from 8vsb to QAM). Although the capability to take our signal apart and convert from 720p to 1080i would exist, (a) it wouldn't make it any better and (b) would be very expensive.

What set are you using that has 1080i lines? Most of them I've been seeing seem to have around 800 actual lines, the sets converting whatever comes in to that 'native' resolution.

The FCC is in process of changing the rules so that simulcast of the analog signal would no longer be required. We have not made any decisions about continuing or discontinuing the simulcast. However, I do know of at least one cable system that is using our simulcast as the source for our signal on their analog system.

Actually we've stopped using variable bit rate encoding. It keeps breaking. We tried it again last Friday and the lip synch on our simulcast signal was more than 1/2 second off.

Originally posted by garybliev
Last I'd heard is that Comcast will just take our feed directly and process it into their system (changing it from 8vsb to QAM). Although the capability to take our signal apart and convert from 720p to 1080i would exist, (a) it wouldn't make it any better and (b) would be very expensive.

What set are you using that has 1080i lines? Most of them I've been seeing seem to have around 800 actual lines, the sets converting whatever comes in to that 'native' resolution.

The FCC is in process of changing the rules so that simulcast of the analog signal would no longer be required. We have not made any decisions about continuing or discontinuing the simulcast. However, I do know of at least one cable system that is using our simulcast as the source for our signal on their analog system.

Actually we've stopped using variable bit rate encoding. It keeps breaking. We tried it again last Friday and the lip synch on our simulcast signal was more than 1/2 second off.

Thanks Gary,

I have a Zenith C32V37... Using DVI from my comcast 6200.. and Silver Sensor for over the air HD. Of course with serious Service Menu tweaks to get the colors and overscan under control. You are probably correct about the Native resolution being less than 1080i, though I thought your picture quality was better, at least on my set, before you switch to 720p. So comcast will be taking your signal off the air? I was hoping they were getting it on a fiber connection, and you could just pass through the original PBS feed. Agree that having them convert your 720p signal back up to 1080i is counterproductive.

Sorry to hear that you expensive variable bit rate equipment isn't working correctly. Great concept... I'm sure someday someone will come up with equipment or software to make it work... Would be sweet if someone could figure out how to broadcast a variable bit rate HD weather radar feed. The refresh is low enough you would only have to take one bit rate blip every few seconds to keep a sharp picture.

As for simulcasting... Let the cable company downsample the HD signal to 480p or 480i. That isn't that tough and will look better than your relatively low bit rate SD feed anyway. I am happy to hear that the FCC is finally realizing that it is not necessary to simulcast the analog signal. Noticed a lot of blocking during fast motion on WILX's olympic HD feed. Would be nice to have all the HD stuff at full bit-rate. The two INHD(HDTV only) channels on comcast are pretty stunning in terms of picture quality.

OK, after thinking about it, they probably wouldn't want to downsample your HD feed, since none of your local content is being broadcast on that feed.

Do you have a plan to upgrade your local production facilities to HD in the coming years?

Our mainline comcast was cut on Friday afternoon by some construction guys outside our house putting in new water lines or something, comcast finally came out today to check it out (been out for our entire block since Friday afternoon), anyways they temporarily patched theline so we can get cable and internet again for a few days till they can fix the mainline, but here is my question...

During that downtime I hooked up my Mitsubishi srhd500 box (to pull in local OTA digital and hd signals while comcast has been out),

Every channel I got was pulling in 100% signal, no fades or variances, 6-1, 10-1 etc, however the WKAR channels (3 i think it found them in the 23-1 area) show full signal strength yet have black screens?

Is WKAR not broadcasting at this time? I do get all kinds of other channels and even the olympics on 10-1 is coming in at 100% strength, and when i have it on WKAR (any of the 3 kar channels my box finds during searches) the signals show as 100% solid (using an indoor rca powered antenna), yet no matter when I try to actually view the channels they are always black no sound or picture.

I wouldn't even question it if I didn't pick up a signal, but I even cleared the box and re-scanned, still finds the channels yet shows black for picture with no audio only on the WKAR channels.


Just wondered if there was something going on with the OTA signals of WKAR or possibly if there is a programming outtage at the moment?

Havent had this box hooked up for ota signals in a few months, but at that time the WKAR stuff was coming thru fine (and again signal shows its coming thru 100% strength even) just no pic or audio.

Anyone?

Bill

Hey Bill, I noticed that too when I tuned past them the other day, didn't stop to investigate. I haven't tuned them in for a few days so I don't know if I'm getting them or not.

BTW, monitor is working fine, our employee in our Flushing office is very happy with it....

Hmmm... I haven't watched much TV this week. When I checked my WKAR signal, I also received 100 signal strength with black screens. I didn't try resetting my Hughes E86 yet. Is there something on my end that I can do?

Originally posted by VIVOtheFURY


Do you have a plan to upgrade your local production facilities to HD in the coming years?

Not in the immediate future.

Originally posted by FTLOSM

Is WKAR not broadcasting at this time? I do get all kinds of other channels and even the olympics on 10-1 is coming in at 100% strength, and when i have it on WKAR (any of the 3 kar channels my box finds during searches) the signals show as 100% solid (using an indoor rca powered antenna), yet no matter when I try to actually view the channels they are always black no sound or picture.


Bill

I don't get it, we're seeing us on Videotek, Zenith, LG, and Samsung receivers. In a few minutes I'll reboot all of our encoders, let me know if we come back. (Channel 23-3 is currently black, I'll get it removed as well)

Please feel free to email or call me when you see problems:

garyb@wkar.msu.ed (517) 432-3120x201


Thank you.

You can add MIT MyHD receiver cards to the list of the one's that didn't have an issue.

Everything look great tonight when I tuned in Soundstage. Thanks Gary...

I will hook up the mitsu box again tonight and check to see if my KARs are still black... I went back to comcast box the other day since they temporarily fixed my lines,.... wish i could have both ota locals and hd content of hbo and such all in one box.... someday soon i hope to see comcast add all these locals...

Everything looked great for me last night. Thanks Gary!

Then I checked my WKAR signal, I also received 100 signal strength with black screens.

I noticed the same thing on Monday, but when I checked last night, the picture was just fine.

Anyone else happy to see Comcast added StarZHD and CinemaxHD to our lineup? If you get the normal StarZ package, you should get StarzHD for free... It didn't work automatically, so I called and they had to turn the StarZ package off and back on again before StarZHD showed up as authorized on my box.

...not to mention there has been a stealth addition of DiscoveryHD to the lineup. When did that show up?

With WKAR's PBS HD feed coming online in a few weeks things are literally looking good!

Now if ABC would get their act together and broadcast more of their college football games in HD I would be Happier!

Anyone heard about the NFL games(Lions) on FOX... they in HD.. ED.. or just crappy old SD?

Anyone watch WLNS-DT this weekend (8/28-8/29)?

Even this morning, the normal sized 3:2 picture (which is usually broadcast with normal proportions and black bars on the sides) has been stretched to fill the screen. This even happened with the NFL pre-season game this weekend, which are usually broadcast in HDTV.

WILX-DT was coming in a steady 62% Sunday morning, possibly due to the cloud cover? But since then has gone back to wildly fluctuating signal strength between 0% and 45%. Is the fluctuating signal a symptom of multi-path issues? Would a CM pre-amp help?

BTW, I tried a $40 amplified indoor Jenson antenna from Meijer, but was pretty much useless, compared to my rooftop antenna.

Is the fluctuating signal a symptom of multi-path issues?
Most likely. I have that problem with WLNS (only 3 miles away). Given your distance from the WILX tower (about 12 miles), I'm surprised you would have a multi-path problem.

Would a CM pre-amp help?
I don't think so. In fact, it might make it worse because it would amplify the extraneous reflections that are causing the problem. A better solution would be a more directional antenna. You are close enough to WLNS (8 miles, 33°) that you can probably get it off the back side with your antenna pointed to WILX (218°).

I tried a $40 amplified indoor Jenson antenna from Meijer, but was pretty much useless, compared to my rooftop antenna.
In my experience, the best indoor antenna will be outperformed by the worst outdoor antenna.

Chris,

Thanks for the suggestion of a more directional antenna. I currently an using a Televes DAT75 on a CM rotator. I can only pick up WILX within an approximate 10° arc. My max signal (also conforms to antennaweb) is at 225° for WILX.

How much more directional can I get than this antenna?

Geordon

According to the specs, the DAT75 should be sufficiently directional. Sometimes, multi-path can be affected by vertical angle of a yagi. Is it possible to experiment with slight variations in the vertical angle of the antenna?

Are there any physical objects (e.g., a tree) near your antenna that could be creating a problem?

Geordon, my Telves is Highly directional, 10 degrees sounds about right I'm about 8 or 10 miles from a tower and worried about overload but I haven't found that. However your situation may be different. Have you tried an attenuator? They are cheap, $8 at RS. Might be worth a try. Funny thing is I'm 50 or 60 miles from the tower and I'm getting a better signal than you, weird. Are you having problems with any other channel? If so I might suspect you coax, but barring that you might want to see if you can get a signal from any other direction, sometimes a reflected signal might be better than the actual signal.

Quick update on WLNS-DT Just called the station and was told by master control they had a power surge last Sat. AM that took out quite a bit of equipment. I was told the equipment is on order and they should be back to HD in a few days.

Wow Comcast is starting to impress me with their HD offerings, if they get ABC Im sold (MNF of course). Also Fox would be nice, but I doubt the Lions will be in HD anyway.

100 WILX - NBC (HD)

105 ESPN HD (Must subscribe to at least Digital Classic to receive)

107 IN HD (Must subscribe to at least Digital Classic to receive)

108 IN HD2 (Must subscribe to at least Digital Classic to receive)

110 HBO HD (Must subscribe to HBO receive HD channel)

111 Cinemax HD (Must subscribe to Cinemax to receive HD channel)

112 Showtime HD (Must subscribe to Showtime to receive HD channel)

113 Starz! HD (Must subscribe to Starz! to receive HD channel)

205 Discovery HD Theater (Must subscribe to at least Digital Classic to receive)

hoogs,

The addition of 100 (NBC) is great but I just wish in their menus for it they would include the programming info of what is ON channel 100... I know I could go down to their analog to figure out whats what and such, but on channel 100 itself there is never any programming info, (makes it hard to sit down and pre-program it to record with my hd 6208 comcast pvrbox).

But I agree adding those few other channels recently is great, lets see cbs and abc next.....(crossing fingers).

Bill :)

Yes, having the guide for NBC 100 would be nice.

Anybody else having problems with 205 Discovery HD theater today? Worked fine the end of last week...

BTW vivo this weeks Lions game IS in HD on Fox :)

Originally posted by hoogs
BTW vivo this weeks Lions game IS in HD on Fox :)

Thanks hoogs, I hope you are right!

Where did you find this info? Titan still doesn't even show HD for WSYM...

Closest thing I could find as proof, the Lions game is marked as HD:

http://www.directvsports.com/Schedules/Packages/NFLSundayTicket/

And I also found this, looks like we are only getting Weeks 1 and 3 in HD, better than nothing I guess:

Here are the games FOX will be broadcasting on DirecTV in HD for the first 5 weeks:


Week 1 (Doubleheader)
Sunday, September 12

1p Seattle Seahawks @ New Orleans Saints
Detroit Lions @ Chicago Bears
Tampa Bay Bucs @ Washington Redskins
Arizona Cardinals @ St. Louis Rams

4p Dallas Cowboys @ Minnesota Vikings
NY Giants @ Philadelphia Eagles
Atlanta Falcons @ SF 49ers

Week 2
Sunday, September 19
1p Washington Redskins @ NY Giants
Chicago Bears @ Green Bay Packers
St. Louis Rams @ Atlanta Falcons
SF 49ers @ New Orleans Saints
Carolina Panthers @ Kansas City Chiefs

4p Seattle Seahawks @ Tampa Bay Bucs

Week 3 (Doubleheader)
Sunday, September 26

1p Chicago Bears @ Minnesota Vikings
Philadelphia Eagles @ Detroit Lions
Arizona Cardinals @ Atlanta Falcons
New Orleans Saints @ St Louis Rams

4p Green Bay Packers @ Indianapolis Colts
SF 49ers @ Seattle Seahawks

Week 4
Sunday, October 3

1p NY Giants @ Green Bay Packers
Philadelphia Eagles @ Chicago Bears
Washington Redskins @ Cleveland Browns
4p New Orleans Saints @ Arizona Cardinals

Atlanta Falcons @ Carolina Panthers

Week 5 (Doubleheader)
Sunday, October 10
1p NY Giants @ Dallas Cowboys
Minnesota Vikings @ Houston Texans
Tampa Bay Bucs @ New Orleans Saints

4p Carolina Panthers @ Denver Broncos
Arizona Cardinals @ SF 49ers
St. Louis Rams @ Seattle Seahawks

Thanks, looks like Week 3 is only 480p at best, and I have a hard time believeing WSYM will put up anything better than that for This weekend. Guess that's still widescreen and better than SD.

Titan still doesn't even show HD for WSYM..
My Titan listing is showing it as HD. Are y9u sure you have WSYM-DT selected and not WYSM?

I don't get a WSYM-DT button on Titan like I do for WJRT, WLNS, WILX... etc.....

Perhaps my link is out of date and is not showing the addition of the WJRT-DT button....
I would appreciate it if you would post a link to the correct page for WSYM that includes the DT schedule.

Thanks!

I'm not getting the information from WSYM, I'm getting it from TitanTV.com. After you set up your TitanTV account and then log in, you should be able to select "Customize." There you willl see all the stations listed that TitanTV thinks you might be able to receive. Select "Show" for the stations you want to see in your guide and "Hide" for everything else.

Watching the Lions vs Bears game on FOX47, enjoy the widecreen, but the game commentary is very quiet compared to commercials and gamebreaks, etc. Is everyone experiencing this, I'm getting the wrath of my wife...

I didn't catch the Lions-Bears game, but the Cowboys-Vikings game has a fantastic picture and DD sound.

Originally posted by Chris White
I didn't catch the Lions-Bears game, but the Cowboys-Vikings game has a fantastic picture and DD sound.

Thanks for the info on Titan.. I created an ID and WYSM's HD content shows up correctly now.

Unfortunately, I was ended up out of town this afternoon.. and didn't get a chance to watch the Lions in HD

Also experienced low volume on Lions/Bears broadcast.

Several changes over the last few days.

We increased our audio level by 3dB.

We changed the audio input to our Standard Definition encoder so that we are not running the audio through our Orban/Optimod limiter that we use for our analog channel. We're just relying on the compression settings provided by Dolby AC-3.

We have fixed several closed captioning issues, some of which were incoming to us on the network feed.

We've now gone three days using statistical multiplexing between the HD and SD channels with out a lock-up. HD has the priority between the two services.

We've now implemented dynamic PSIP including Extended Text Tables*. The CC flag should be on for CC programming, and the ratings information should be accurate.

*For a lot of programs the ETT information we have from PBS exceeds the space allocated for text so the information will be truncated. We do not have text information for all of our programs.

Let me know how these things work for you.


Thank you.

Gary Blievernicht
garyb@wkar.msu.edu
(517) 432-3120 X 201

Is TitanTV's site always this slow????

Makes it hard to get around. Feel like I am back on Dial-up...

long time lurker, but, wanted to post my recent experience with Comcast HD just in case others have the same problem (and the tech said others are having/will be having the same problem).

Comcast has, according to the tech, put channels 100 and 205 (WILX and Discovery HD) on the 'fm' band.....this band, unlike whatever they broadcast ESPN on INHD on, is very susceptible to signal ingress. The tech was cursing this decision and said that this problem was happening all over the place. What problem you ask?

I haven't been getting 100 or 205 since they came online (I get the other just fine). My house was built in 1990, and there are 3 runs with RG-59 cable (much more susceptible to signal ingress than the newer RG-6(?) cable.

So, long story short, they're coming out Friday to redo those runs. Since all signs point to comcast doing the original install back in '90, the reruns will be for free, but, worst case it's $16/run.

The tech said that CBS was on the list for Lansing addition soon, but, he knew nothing about WKAR in sept, so, don't know what to think of that.

Scott

They wouldn't even install mine untill the RG-59 was replaced.. if that says anything.

Hello: I have been experiencing audio breakups with WLNS-CBS-HD
again, and last night it was unwatchable. Before and during CSI. I was at
100% S.S. and it was cutting out constantly. Anybody else having this problem. I will try to reach program engineer today.

John

Any word more word on WLNS or WKAR being added to Comcast's HD line up? Thought at lesast on of those was going to happen this month...

Also, as nice as watching the Lions' in HD on WSYM was.. It pales in comparison to ESPN-HD's coverage. Of course WSYM is not running full bit rate on HD with that blasted subchannel.. so that might explain it. Wish that Comcast, when they add the locals, could get access to the original full bit rate network feeds, instead of the mediocre resampled version the TV station sends out.

Before and during CSI. I was at 100% S.S. and it was cutting out constantly. Anybody else having this problem.

I didn't watch CSI and CSI-NY until this weekend. I had a little cutting out on CSI, but not too bad. CSI-NY, however, was awful with constant rapid dropouts throughout the program.

I noticed WILX broadcast both Hawaii and E.R. in SD last week. Was there a problem with the network feed or did they just forget to throw the switch?

I noticed one evening last week WILX forgot to switch to HD for Leno. Not sure what was up with that..... The dropouts on the over the air signals are why I'm asking when they will be available on Comcast. Dropouts really make it almost impossible to enjoy watching anything. Digitals all or nothing approach does occasionaly have draw backs.

Whenever WILX broadcasts HDTV programming in SD, it is most likely that someone just forgot to "flick the switch". When this happens, I just call the station and use the prompt for the news room (someone is always there). Mention the problem to whoever answers the phone and it will be fixed. The last time I called, it became obvious the newsroom folks are responsible for the transition. The woman who answered sheepishly said "Just a minute." and before she came back on the phone, I was watching HD. Make the call!

Make the call!

Unfortunately, I watch nothing live so by the time I see it, it's too late. Maybe we should set up a rotating schedule whereby we take turns checking (and calling if necessary) to see if someone has thrown the switch. :)

With WLNS, it's always interesting to see when the switch will be thrown the other way (back to SD). It's usually within the last minute of the broadcast, but it varies. According to the folks at WLNS, the switch to HD and back to SD is done by a timer. If that is indeed how it works, you would think they could synch to the network's clock.

You would think the switch over would also be on a Timer! Or just be automatic when it senses HD content. Although SD comercials might pose problems.

Why not just tie it in to Titan TV's listings! Program the whole day at once...

I had my comcast 6208 hd pvr set up to record ER in what I thought would be HD, (thru cable in hd not OTA signal) but when I watched the recording it was standard digital - looked good but was with the black side bars.

I didn't watch it live so I never had the chance to call in on it and see if there was a switch to throw, but ER should be full HD right?

Would something like that be a comcast error or the station error or is ER not in HD this season?

LAX looked awesome btw, (recorded last two episodes and just started to watch them last night) I am a bit behind on watching my recorded shows...hehe

Bill :)

UPDATE... Nevermind I read the previous posts back a few and realized it wasn't just me seeing ER in SD vd HD, probably just that flick of the swith issue...

Comcast started shipping the 6212 yet??? Heard that has a 120GB Hard disk. Would like to replace my 6200 when it comes out.

The NBC HD issues continue to multiply. I don't know why NBC is the worst but they're the winners hand down. The ER thing is a good example; I have 3 NBC HD outlets ( Detroit, Lansing, Flint) and none broadcast in HD when I flipped by. I settled on WILX since that was where my antenna was pointed, and watched in SD. I posted in the programming section and found that elsewhere ER was in HD and about 5 or 10 minutes into the show WDIV (Detroit) flipped the switch.

This is stupidity. Everything is high tech, HD being some of the highest, yet the last link in the chain is a guy in the control room who has to flip the switch? Come on!

Put two montitors in a cage with a chimp. One with the incoming Network feed and one with the outgoing signal from the Station... I am convinced the chimp could do a better job flipping the switch when a high def material shows up......

Originally posted by VIVOtheFURY
Any word more word on WLNS or WKAR being added to Comcast's HD line up? Thought at lesast on of those was going to happen this month...



Comcast tells me that WKAR should be added toward the end of October, start of November.

Thanks Gary, appreciate the update. Look forward to seeing WKAR's HD feed on Comcast.

I called again last night after the opening of Las Vegas (aka 'The Cleavage Show") was in SD and it soon flipped to HD.

On behalf of all us who recorded Las Vegas and plan to watch it later: THANK YOU! :)

I watched last Thursday's Father of the Pride last night. I guess someone forgot to throw the switch as the entire broadcast was SD.

Anyone else think that CBS football is unwatchable. During any type of motion on closeups, or replays....the picture breaks up bad...really lots of blocking. Even during regular shots there is much noise in jersey colors, grass, and motion artifacts. Now, many people in other markets say that CBS does HD "right" and that it looks fantastic. This leads me to believe something is not right at WLNS. I have watched the OTA signal on several sets, with various receivers....all looks the same. On a large set, it is pretty much unwatchable IMHO. Anyone have any insight? Maybe I should just call over there.....ESPN, FOX, and ABC football looks just fine to me BTW.

I agree, CBS or WLNS did a very poor job with their HD coverage(Bills/Pats). They had a hard time dealing with the contrast and exposure.. not to mention the horrible blocky encoding of any fast motion.. Of all the channels.... you would think WLNS would be the best as they don't downsample to carry a subchannel. Bad at the source? Almost seemed like they were having dropouts.. even though I was getting good signal strenth.

I Also agree that ESPN, FOX and ABC look better than CBS. Would be interesting to see football in Hi-def on WILX to see if it is something about 1080i encoding as the others I believe all run at 720p.

Yes, I noticed that too. I also had terrible audio problems with Fox 47-1
during Packers/Giants game. If it was not audio then I would lose entire picture for a couple of seconds with the "searching for signal" logo. I also tried Fox out of G.R. 17-1 and had the same problem. They both registered 90% (for what its worth) on signal strength. Anyone else have this problem?? Thanks.

John

ESPN-HD Sportcenter just used some of CBS's HD coverage of the Bills Patriots game. It looked very good. No contrast/exposure problems or blocking noticed anywhere. Much better than what I saw on WLNS's broadcast Sunday. I think that CBS's 1080i feed is not too blame... Put this one all on WLNS.

There were a few instances where the Sunday Ticket feed for the CBS game was on, even if it was also on WLNS. It was quickly resolved, but I thought the D* feed looked better.

Anybody else with Comcast have problems after this latest equipment "upgrade"? My box is backleveled from 7.15 to 7.10 ROM... which totaly screws up my DVI output. Also lost StarZHD. Only good news is.. none of the channels are coming through with 5C encryption.. can record any of them to my computer.. at least for the moment.

Wonder why the digital channels other than HD pretty much stink??? Guess what bit-rate video they're feeding.... a lousy 2Mb/s... isn't that like SVCD at best?

Comcast rep also said the 6812 boxes still aren't available yet.. Even though they were supposed to get them in September.

Hello all,
I'm am contemplating installing an outdoor tv antenna.

However, I'm not sure which style antenna to use.

I live near the corner of Pennsylvania and Cavanaugh in Lansing.

I see that Chris uses the CM4221A, and lives in Williamston, but I don't know if that would be the best antenna for my location.

I do plan on installing a rotator.

With that being said, should I think about a directional antenna, one that is able to get Flint, Grand Rapids, or even Detroit (if that's even possible)?

Above all, I definitely want to be able to get WLAJ, WILX, WKAR, WLNS, and WSYM with no problems.

Thanks in advance.
Adrian

Start by going to antennaweb.org. You can enter your address and get the direction and mileage to each station. Given your location, I'm guessing a double-bow tie in the attic will be all you need for the locals.

Thanks Chris.

Unfortunately, antennaweb.org doesn't show the distance for DT stations in Grand Rapids or Detroit.

I am trying to figure out if it is going to be worth it to try to pull in those farther away stations.

If that isn't going to work out, I'll just get a different type of antenna (as opposed to a highly directional one to try in pull in Detroit, etc.).

I wonder if the CM4221A would be fine for me. I live in your basic neighborhood, so I don't know if multi-path would be a problem for me.

Would I need a rotator with the CM4551A?

I currently us an indoor powered antenna. I am able to get a few stations good, and a few stations sporadically, and I have to adjust it for the different stations. Add it to the fact that it's upstairs, and my receiver is in the basement, and it has been a big pain in the rear.

antennaweb.org doesn't show the distance for DT stations in Grand Rapids or Detroit It does when I use it. I'm getting every station within a 75 mile radius. If you are in Lansing, then Detroit or Grand Rapid stations are going to take a pretty good highly directional antenna (something like the Televes DAT75) in the clear. And you'll need a rotator with that since those stations will be in different directions from the local stations.

I wonder if the CM4221A would be fine for me. I live in your basic neighborhood, so I don't know if multi-path would be a problem for me. ?? If you live in Lansing, you don't live in my basic neighborhood. I'm in Williamston. All the stations are in the same basic direction for me. I don't know whether that's true for you or not. The 4221A is moderately directional so it might not work for you without a rotator if the local stations are in significantly different directions.



I currently us an indoor powered antenna. As I've stated before, the worst outdoor antenna will outperform the best indoor antenna.

Chris White:

I am near Fowlerville and have the highly directional and powerful Televes Dat75. I have to point antenna northwest to pick up 2 stations CBS and PBS) and southwest to pick up the 2 that are between Lansing and Jackson (ABC and NBC). For the most part can get nearly all the stations in Flint and in Detroit with a rotator, of course. Practical limit on Televes is around 60 miles. More height that I have and you could go for 75 miles.

Hey Guys. Been lurking here for quite awhile. I finally bought a HD receiver this week and got it all set up last night.

I watched Lost in HD last night for my first experience. Stunning. The waves in the ocean had me hypnotized.

Anyway, here's my problem. I live in the Durand area and I'm using a pair of cheap rabbit ears. I'm able to get 25.1 (NBC) and 12.1 (ABC) but that is all. When I hook up the ears to a normal TV I can get 6, 47 and 23 in pretty good, but no signal on the HD receiver. I took the antenna up to the attic but it didn't seem to make a difference. I also tried to daisy chain 2 rabbit ears together with a splitter.

If I could get those three in I would have every major network I think (not sure if 47 if HiDef and Fox. What do you guys use for Fox?)

Anyway, I figured i would have to put up an outdoor antenna but wasn't positive until now because I didn't know what the threshhold was for being able to pick-up analog = being able to pick up digital was.

So, long story short, What would you guys recommend I do? Being that I'm able to pick up those channels decent with rabbit ears, is there a better indoor setup that may put me over the digital hump? Or can you recommend a outdoor antenna installer? Or a place I can buy the antenna and mast to install myself.

Thanks.

You'll want to visit AntennaWeb.Org (http://www.antennaweb.org) to map out the direction and distance of the stations and get some guidance on antenna selection.

When you do that, you'll see that you're pretty much surrounded by HD stations. The problem is that they are in very different directions. To get all the networks, you'll probably have to either commit to one direction (get all hd from Flint or from Lansing) or use a rotor. Since you're 20+ miles from most of the stations, I'm pretty sure you'll need an outdoor antenna to get reliable signals.

Rabbit ear antennas are VHF, so they won't do you any good for UHF, which is most hi-def stations.

To install an outdoor antenna, do i attach it to the roof? How?

Or do i get one of those triangular mast structures? Where can i get one of those?

Or is there a local installer that will do the whole thing for me?

I bought my antenna from Warren Electronics (http://www.warrenelectronics). They sell everything you might need including mounts, masts, antennas, etc.

If you want a local installer, one of my neighbors used Wilkins TV & Electronics in Williamston to install his antenna and he was very pleased with the service.

Thanks, Chris.

Hey All,

Can someone recommend a "good" local tech/shop to do an ISF calibration? Since you all are in my area (lansing), I just thought I would get some local input.

I just got a Hitachi 57s715 for an early xmas present and would like to get it "done right".

If you don't know of any in the area, could you point me in the right direction to track one down?

Thanks in advance for any assistance you can provide.

Jay

Just wanted to see if anybody else is having problems with WLAJ. I was getting it at about 90% strength with my square shooter but about a couple of days ago it completely disappeared and hasn't returned. Nothing not even a blip. Anybody else experiencing this or any word on what is happening? Thanks

Luc

No Desparate Housewives for me Saturday night, due to loss of signal.

No signal here either.....noticed saturday when I tried to tune in football. Speaking of which, CBS still looks awful on football coverage....just locally. The highlights on ESPN look fine, but trying to watch a game on WLNS right now is painful.

Very painful indeed. I wonder what is causing that because watching the same game at the same time on DirecTV Sunday Ticket HD looks perfect.

I do believe they are trying to make some changes, and to their credit they were on the air before the others. Maybe this week I'll just try to contact them to see what's going on. Would be nice to have a stable picture in time for ND/Tennesse...or even Thanksgiving Lions game. The odd thing is that the picture is fine on Sunday Ticket at a lower bitrate than what OTA can offer.....hmmm...

Well, looks like WLAJ is up again on my end. Full strength.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by grover517
[B]Hey All,

Can someone recommend a "good" local tech/shop to do an ISF calibration?

When I had my Sony calibrated back in 2000, there was no one around that was certified. Contemporary Audio put me in touch with someone in Indiana. Cost me the normal fee plus $75 travel.

TTRider

I will give them a call. It looks like they are certified now (according to the Milori website, but being Contempory Audio, I will probably still pay about as much even though they won't have to travel very far!

Contemporary Audio says they don't do calibration anymore. It would be nice to find someone here who does.

Sorry about the non Lansing HDTV programing post.

I too was looking to get my CRT ISF calibrated but I could not find anyone locally.

I called "Contemptable Audio" and they only do calibrations on their own in store displays. I also contacted DSS Security & Sound twice but they never returned my phone calls. I wish ISF would keep the technician and dealers contact database up to date so customers would not waste their time chasing down dead leads.

I do know that some of the better ISF technicians schedule tours of the Detroit area. Also if you organize a large enough group the technician will schedule a special trip to your area. The group can then split the overall cost of the travel expense. I also think if you host the tech (room, board, and transportation?) that will further lower the travel expense cost. An Internet search should help you find a few.

Some I found were:

According to Lion A/V Consultants website (sorry I am new here and can not post urls as of yet.) Gregg Loewen is going to be in the Detroit area November of this year. Gregg comes very highly rated by his customers. A ISF technician group that will come to you if you can organize a large enough calibration customer group is AVICAL. Both of these companies have websites with pricing and tour info.

(By the way I do not have any affiliation with these groups nor can I personally vouch for any of them. I just did a lot of research when I was interested in obtaining an ISF calibration of my television and want to share it with you. I did come to the conclusion that I can not afford one!)

I can certainly vouch for Gregg. I've seen his work and can assure you that he is one of the best in the industry. If I were needing a calibration, he would definitely be my first choice.

John Gannon -- the man -- now lives in the northern suburbs of Detroit. Look him up on the forum (member name is Gannon), and see if he handles your display.

I totally agree with Chris; Gregg would also be my first choice.

Everything I read says Gregg has plenty of experience and is one of the best out there.

Thanks Everyone!

Luc12 - I also found out that Contempory Audio will only do the sets they sell.

Chris - I had read ALOT about Gregg on other boards during my travels and everyone "raves" about his work, but never saw where he might be having a tour in this area. I had even saw a few posts of yours back in 2002 when Gregg was still getting his certification, and prior to your move here from Florida! However, I had inquired recently on a few other boards and no one seemed to help so I had sort of resigned myself to looking locally first and not have to try and assemble a "group tour".

WilliamM - I had doubts about Contempory Audio from the beginning because most "high end" dealers want to sell you THEIR equipment, and so they only service their stuff. I agree on the high cost of having this done, but since the new set was an early xmas present from the parents, I have the money I personally was saving to buy one to use for the calibration. And I don't want to "throw it away" to someone that has no experience with my set. Like the ole' saying goes, "you get what you pay for".

Geordon - I will see if I can find contact info for John and inquire. Thanks for the lead.

Who knows, maybe I can get on the list for Gregg's tour for the Detroit area (IF he does Hitachi's) But from what I have read recently, he is normally only doing weekend tours and most likely is already booked for the whole time, but never hurts to ask.

Overall, my pic is not all that bad, but I do notice quite a bit of focus issues with the blue gun in my set. Although, I am making this comparison to a 10 year old RCA 52" CRT RPTV. I have done both AVIA and DVE on the set and that has helped alot (flesh tones, etc), but when doing convergence on the new set, the red lines are quite sharp but the blue has quite a bit of ghosting. So I wasn't so sure that I really needed ALL of Gregg's tweaks and adjustments, but just a little "out of the box" tweaking. Maybe I will just see how far I can get with ABC Warehouse and Hitachi to see if they can send out a tech to focus the guns a little better and see where that gets me. That would save quite a bit.

Thanks for all the responses.

Jay

I emailed Gregg this morning to ask about his November schedule. He isn't keeping his website up to date because the the Detroit trip it talks about was last year. Anyway, he will making a trip through northern Ohio in mid-November and said he could come up here if anyone is interested. He will need to know pretty soon. His email address is: htflover@hotmail.com

Chris,

Thanks for the info! I will drop him a line tonight to get some details from him.

Jay

Chris, just had Wilkins install a Winegard 8200, rotor and pre amp. Good people. Thanks for the tip.

I'm able to get all of Lansing and Flint here in Durand.

Now I can start to bitch about swith flipping and audio breakups. LOL

Thanks

Good news for East side residents... WEYI from Saginaw is now broadcasting the WB on channel 25-1 (DT30). This is nice compared to 43 PAX (which reairs programming at 6pm the next day) or WB20 in Detroit which can be hard to pickup sometimes.

The BIG news is they ARE carrying the Detroit Pistons games that are not on FSN Detroit and belong to WB20 in Detroit.

For more info checkout the Flint/Saginaw thread.

Chris,

I contacted Gregg last night and he called me back a few hours after I sent the email. He is definately coming up during mid November to calibrate my set! He is scheduling a tour right now that runs from Detroit to Chicago and he is going to swing up here around the 15th thru 17th. He is leaving for Florida and said he would have an exact date for me around the 1st of November.

Thank you for your help and will let you all know the results once he has completed the calibration. It's like Christmas coming early!!!!!!

Jay

Can someone confirm that WILX-DT is off the air? I lost their signal last night about 6pm and still get no signal today. Since I'm in the process of adding a new taller pole to my antenna today, I want to make sure something hasn't gone haywire on my end.

Never mind. I just tried a cheapy RakShak amp and discovered that WILX-DT is indeed on the air. For some reason, their signal strength has dropped drastically, but it is there.

I've had problems getting WILX-10 lately. I have a Silver Sensor that has done a great job picking up all of the locals. Last week, I had troubles picking up WILX. It was very directional. All of my other locals are locked in at 100, but I can't get WILX to get above 70. Before last week, it was always locked in at 100.

Just a little local info here:
I talked to a local "antenna" shop today.
I just called to see what antennas they are selling.
The man I talked to on the phone was surprisingly pushy.
He tried to sell me his install for $550.
When I finally got a word in that I wanted to install it myself, he chuckled and said that I'd be calling him within a half an hour of starting.
Anyway, I told him that I was thinking of getting a CM4221, he said that it was not enough antenna to get the locals.
I mentioned that I knew someone who lived between EL and Williamston that has the 4221 and was getting the locals, he said that person must be the only one.

Results of my minor upgrade:

I've had multipath problems with WLNS since the day I installed my antenna, even though I don't have any surrounding buildings or trees. Since my antenna was mounted very close to the roof of the house (about 18"), I guessed that the source of the multipath could be my own house. This weekend, I added a new 5' pole. I'm pleased to report that the multipathing is significantly reduced. Also, to my surprise, the signal for WKAR jumped from 50 to 80%.

Adrian.....

I guess it depends where you are, but the 4221A should be sufficient. I live on the east side of Williamston and use a 4221A mounted on a 5' pole (one-story house). I'm probably closer to WLNS than you, but further away for every other station. I get WLNS (almost 100%), WLAJ (95%), WSYM (90%), and WKAR (75-80%). I used to get WILX at about 80%, but something has happened because they barely move the needle now. I've ordered a Channel Master 7775 pre-amp and a Channel Master 3023 antenna to see if that will help, but I'm not absolutely sure either is necessary.

If the new pre-amp and antenna does the trick, I'll have a 4221A for sale ($15?). You would be welcome to try it out and bring it back if it isn't satisfactory.

By the way, is it possible the person you talked to didn't realize you were talking about digital stations in the UHF spectrum? What he said might be true for analog stations.

Originally posted by Chris White


If the new pre-amp and antenna does the trick, I'll have a 4221A for sale ($15?). You would be welcome to try it out and bring it back if it isn't satisfactory.

By the way, is it possible the person you talked to didn't realize you were talking about digital stations in the UHF spectrum? What he said might be true for analog stations.

Chris,
I would be interested in the 4221A if your new antenna works well.
When would it be available?

The person I talked to really acted as if I had no clue. I'm not sure they had a clue.
I told him that I was only interested in the digital stations. He said that the "antenna and pre-amp were digital", so it was pretty obvious that either he didn't know what I meant or he was trying to just "fast talk" me into buying something from him. He really rubbed me the wrong way, and I don't want anything to do with them at this point.
He was trying to sell me the Winegard 8200, which is a monster antenna.


Thanks,
Adrian

Well I took the plunge this weekend and am now a member of the digital TV world. In a word: amazing!

The only local Lansing digital I can not pull in is WILX. (I do get their SD signal with no problems.) I was kinda perplexed until I read Chris's post about the signal strength dropping. Maybe if and when they get that straightened out I will be able to pull them in as well.

I am watching Monday Night Football in HD on WLAJ and the broadcast audio is in Pro Logic; is anyone getting audio in DD?

I checked my receiver by switching to HDNet and it "automagically" switched to DD. Went back to WLAJ and the receiver switched back to Pro Logic.


Thanks in advance!

-Bill M.

I don't think WLAJ is broadcasting in DD, try WJRT 12 (digital 36) out of Flint, they have a pretty strong signal and do broadcast DD.

I don't know it there is a "They" with your WILX-DT problem. I'm a lot farther out than any of you and I have no problem getting WILX-DT since they went on the air.

I'd be happy if Lansing added an OTA HD WB outlet then I would never have to turn my antenna toward Detroit. Now that I have my Hd TiVo this could become an issue, I've got to remember to point the antennas at Detroit Monday and Wednesday, the rest of the time Lansing is fine.

I would be interested in the 4221A if your new antenna works well. When would it be available?It depends how long it takes to get the antenna I've ordered. If I get it by Friday, I'll have a chance to install it this weekend. If not, it will be another week.
He said that the "antenna and pre-amp were digital"LOL! :)
I'm a lot farther out than any of you and I have no problem getting WILX-DT since they went on the air. My guess is that those living further away are more likely to have a well-aimed highly directional antenna and that's what is making the difference. That's why you get them with no problems while some of us that live quite close (e.g., Egret in Mason is less than 12 miles) report having trouble. I spent some time last night trying to "dial-in" the direction of my antenna. I finally found a very narrow sweet spot that gave me about a 65% signal strength for WILX - enough to lock it in solidly. If I moved the antenna even 10 degrees, the signal dropped to zero.

Hello to all,

Here is a copy of an email I received from WILX:

Dear Mr. Miller,
We were experiencing dificulties(sic) with our digital transmitter. The manufacturer has been consulted regarding the problems. We were forced to reduce power for a few days, but are now back to near full power. Where are you located? Can you pick us up now? Thanks for the info - Gary

Thought you would like to know.

-Bill M.

Thanks Bill. That explains a lot! Now I'm wondering if re-aiming my antenna made any difference or I just happened to do it at the same time WILX was restoring full power. Oh well. Now if they could just learn when to throw the switch. :)

You are welcome Chris.

I just tried to tune in WILX during my lunch break but "no joy".

Guess I need to invest in a real antenna, amp, and rotor in order to be able to pull WILX in.

-Bill M.

Thanks for the info Bill. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get WILX at the level that I was receiving a few weeks ago. I topped out my meter at 86. I did find a "happy place" for my antenna where I can get all my locals.

I purchased a FusionHDTV card so that I could have two cards, allowing me to record and watch at the same time, or record two shows at the same time. I first tried to install the Fusion card in my htpc alongside my AccessDTV card. Although I was unable to get the two cards to co-exist peacefully in my htpc, I did make an interesting discovery. The Fusion cards has a much better tuner than the AccessDTV card. When I connected it to my CM4221A, I got a 100% signal strength for WLNS, WLAJ, and WSYM, 98% for WILX and WKAR, and 85% for two other stations I didn't even know existed (a PAX and WB I think).

I didn't realize how much difference a new tuner might make and I know see why some folks have no problem picking up any of the locals. I suspect if I were to turn my antenna toward Flint or Detroit, I might get several of those stations with the Fusion card.

Watching CBS 6 Eagles vs Ravens NFL today and NO HD? Titan lists it as HD and CBS is promoting it as HD. Is this just WLNS again!@? How hard is it to press a damn button to offer a good picture?

Nobody flipped the switch. I called WLNS, and they transferred me to someone's voicemail.

Fox kept switching between SD and HD during the Lions-Cowboys game. Maybe they were having trouble with the network feed.

WLNS wasn't hd at all that i noticed this weekend. I have emailed the engineer to see what was going on. I also have been going back and forth about the picture quality in regards to all the blocking and artifacts and such present in the broadcast. I know they have plans to upgrade some equipment there as some of it was first generation stuff that hadn't been out for long when they went online. I will post back if I get a response again. I actually would almost rather watch the sd version of football compared to what the hd was looking like.....

Anyone notice that Comcast 104 is now WKAR HD? Just found it about 10 minutes ago.

Yup.. Just saw WKAR-HD on 104 earlier today... Guide is for WKAR-SD though.. Hope they can get that straightened out.

Trying to get a 6212 PVR box Thursday.. Has to be better than this 6200.. Since the ROM got back-leveled to 7.10 I have major problems. DVI won't reconnect when TV is switched away from DVI while 6200 is on.

Anyone else notice that Digital sound continues to stream from their 6200 box even when it is switched "off"??? Might explain why the box is very hot even when off. What happened to conserving energy? Looks like the only thing that really turns off is the video feed.... Hope they can do something about it.. this is like leaving a 100watt light bulb running 24/7

Yes, I did notice the audio feed continues. I didn't think my first two boxes acted that way but when this last one was installed to fix more problems, I noticed the audio "feature" right away. It may be firmware related as I went from 7.15 to 7.10.

Originally posted by VIVOtheFURY
Trying to get a 6212 PVR box Thursday..

Is the 6212 available in the Lansing area?

Will see what version of PVR they bring tomorrow morning..

Wish I could find out who at comcast controlled the ROM level on these boxes.. Believe me I have tried... many.. many calls to Comcast.. No one local or on support seems to be able to figure that out.

Afraid the new box will come out at 7.15.. or better, and get back leveled to 7.10 somewhere down the road..... That would really tick me off.

This may be old by now, but I said I would post if I heard anything about WLNS. They had problems with CBS hd reception, problem being corrected. Could be fixed by now, haven't tuned them in since the weekend. They also have plans to upgrade the hd plant with newer gear....much of what they had was first gen and needs to be replaced. Peace.

THey brought out a 6208... are not ordering 6212s.

Said the 6412(dual tuner) boxes should be available in the next few months.

Believe it or not.. this box has the even earlier ROM 7.07 also much different guide setup than 6200. At least the Audio feed shuts off when you turn off the power.

Finally got an answer on ROM upgrades!!!
All boxes are supposed to be upgraded to the 7.20 ROM on the 15th of November. Can only hope that is a major improvement for DVI and Firewire connectivity.

Hey Vivo,

Any word from comcast on add'l channels?

Thanks!

How many HD channels does Comcast currently offer?

Did not get word on new channels.. was too focussed on hardware and forgot to ask

Total HD Channels(including premium) on Comast now I think is 10

Depends where you are located I guess. Here we get 10 now. We have had PBS WKAR and DiscoveryHD added recently. Not enough. I want to watch football in HD.

I will not buy a tuner and antenna. The wife will shoot me. :(

FOX would be a nice addition for Lions games..
Although not a big issue for me, as My Zenith has built in HD tuner and can watch on 47 with only Silver Sensor Antenna. Now tha t I have the PVR cable box, I am more interested in having local HD feeds on Comcast.

Don't care too much about ABC since they refuse to produce any of the Big Ten football games in HD. What is up with that???? THey have some agreement with ESPN to let them do all the HD? Saw that ESPN was going to add ESPN2-HD next year.

Only locals on Comcast are WILX-DT and WKAR-DT?

That is just sad too. We need more locals.

Well at least with WILX-DT NBC now we get a decent digital signal, where as the older analog channel 4 was always ghostly looking. I use to always flip to WOOD channel 8 in G.R. They have a clearer picture. But then the FCC ruled against that.

It is always about money....

Any idea when we will get CBS,FOX and ABC in HD or at least digital?

I finally did it.
This last weekend, I installed a CM 4221 antenna with rotor outside.
I am able to get all of the local digital broadcasts.
Using the compass orientations on antennaweb.org, I get a solid signal on everything I point the antenna at. I definitely needed the rotor, though.
I am very happy with the results.

I bought the 4221 at Purchase Radio Supply in Ann Arbor (along with the rotor).
For everything else I needed, I bought at Lowe's.

A few observations from this Sunday broadcasts:

The beginning of the Lions game had some popping sounds in the audio portion. I noticed it was gone later.

At one point when I flipped back to the Lions game, it was being shown in SD. Later, it was back in HD.

Even though it was only ED, the NASCAR race looked and sounded great. NBC was the toughest signal for me to get, and I'm glad I can get it with no problems now.


Finally, is there any schedule for UPN to broadcast HD? I have heard that Enterprise looks fantastic in HD.

Would very much like to see WB and UPN in HD on Comcast..

WB could be a problem.. since WPAX will never give us an HD feed for WB. They like splitting their Digital bandwith for 4 relatively worthless SD feeds. Think we are out of luck there... Bypass them completely in my over the air line-up as they aren't a real improvement over the standard cable feed.

Could Comcast pick WB and UPN off a Satellite feed and not use the local station???

I left WSYM-47 a message yesterday about the Lions game. One of the engineers gave me a call today. An actual callback about HD made me feel pretty good about the local scene.

He said he doesn't know what the problem was, but they'll keep an eye on it for the upcoming game.

We received two mailings from Comcast today. The first was a postcard saying that WOOD NBC is gone in favor of a “Comcast Local” channel! They are “pleased” to announce the change. PAX will now be on channel 22.

Our second mailing was our monthly bill. In it, they proudly announced that effective with our next billing, we would be experiencing an 11+% monthly rate hike.

How nice of them.

No kidding....Now My bill is $99 and change. Not including the HD or the Tax. Also since I have the Platinum Package I do NOT have VOD yet. They tell me that "when" it comes on-line I will not be charged for it....it is FREE they told me...that made me laugh.

I keep fooling myself in justifying my expensive cable bill by telling myself that WE do not go out and see movies that often(Only the Good Ones). So we save money every time we wait until the DVD comes out. Then we only pay $15-$20 for a DVD.

I want the VOD though then I can justify my cable bill more. It would be more like TiVo.

What does everyone think of the new guide an menu on Comcast? Was already installed on my box when it showed up Tuesday.. Guess I got a sneak preview.

Really like having the PVR box.. can't wait for the dual tuner model with more disk space.

Anyone have HBO(required?) and use the In-Demand feature? Does that work well? Does it work with HD content? How much selection do you have?

Thanks

Well I am suppose to have this new guide. But it looks like the old guide. I went to Comcast.com and looked up the new guide. They even sent me a message on my cable box that it starts 11/11/04. Grrrr....

Figures.....

You could always try unplugging your box for about 10 seconds and letting it reload everything... Could also be it just hasn't been pushed out yet in this area.

Last night I was ready to watch Cold Case and record Category 6: Day of Destruction in HD. At about 8:15 (when 60 Minutes ended), Cold Case started in SD. Like I have done many times before, called WLNS to flip the High Def switch on. I was told that because the NFL games were late, they could not start the HD as this will cause the SD not to synch. They told me that not only Cold Case would not be broadcast in HD, even the next show, a mini-series, would not be broadcast in HD either. I was very disappointed. Unfortunately, I can only get CBS through WLNS. This problem may be repeated in many coming Sundays.

Regards,
USG

Man...that is sooo LAME. Seems they could do "something" to sync-up the signal.

And you are right. With football running late this will happen until February.

TO Vivo: hmm...that seems like a plan. I will try that. I hope it is that easy.

EDIT: Also Vivo I live near the Airport, If I throw a rock I can reach the Airport's property. Not far from you there in Dewitt. Do you get the new screens? Thanks for the tip as well.....

EDIT TWO: Well unplugging the box did not work. So I called Comcast and they stated that it was delayed for a few weeks due to "bugs" in the system. Wish they would have sent a message to the cable box telling us that.

Haven't seen any major glitches in the guide software on mine. Siginificantly different guide (includes page view with mulitple hours and channels) than what was on my previous non DVR box. Assumed this was the new look, but now I wonder.

Have also not seen the new Firmware 7.20 download yet. That must've been delayed as well.
Old 7.07 Firmware does not support Firewire output to my computer.

Hey Jay (grover517) - How's the picture on your tv look today?? :)

Chris,

It looks like it did yesterday after Gregg finished up,


OUTSTANDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It was definately worth the price! Don't know if that is such a good thing though cause I have been literally glued to the set since he left! Gonna be a very enjoyable winter this year.

Can't figure out what I want to watch half the time cause they ALL look that good. ;-)

Even the 480i/SD signal coming out of my ReplayTV 4508 has improved to the point that I really don't mind watching a non HD signal either. DirecTV and TIVO can keep their HD units a while longer now!

I will definately be recommending Gregg to a few others I know that have HD sets and don't have a clue on how good they can actually look.

Thanks a bunch Chris for getting me in touch with him. I owe you one!

Now if I can just figure out why I can't get channel 10 OTA digital lately, I will be all set (see next post if you have a clue)

Jay

Basically, since channel 10 was having some equipment problems a few weeks back (posted earlier), I have not been able to get their digital signal consistently. Prior to that I got them at 90+ all the time.

I am using a DB4 on a 10 ft mast on top of a two story house and the antenna is pointing almost directly at them. However, I am not using a rotor so that I can record OTA and not worry about whether the antenna is in the right place. I get all other local digital channels with 90+ strength.

According to the CEA website, I am only 16 miles from the tower, so it is really baffling me as to why I can get all the others (6, 23, 47, 53, and even 43 off the back side of the antenna) but not 10 anymore.

When I check the signal strength on my STB, the signal strength is all over the place (from 0 to 90+) but only for a few seconds at any one time.

I emailed engineering at channel 10 but got no response. Guess I don't look that important to them? :-(

Anyway, does anyone know if they are still having difficulties, or running at reduced power?

I would really like to find out if I need to tweak the antenna more before the snow starts flying.

Thanks in advance for any input.

Jay

Jay..Chris..?

Is Greg still around the Lansing area? I wish I would have known, I could use his skills in calibrating my system. If he is not around anymore, is there anyone else in the Lansing area that calibrates HT systems?

Worth the money to get someone else to do it... Wish I had done so..

Took me many many months of tweaking things in the Service menu to straighten my Zenith HD set out. Realized the big advantage to LCD, Plasma and DLP sets is the fixed geometry. Spend the first 4-5 months tweaking color.. then realized my geometry was not very good either.. too many "knobs" to tweak on a CRT set. While my set is now what I would consider very good.. I still wonder if it is capable of more?

A good HDTV set may be a little like the old Acoustat(4 panel Electorstatic w/100W tube amps) Studio Monitor speakers my dad had. They were so good, you ended up listening to how the music was made, and not the music itself. Like having too good of vision and seeing the individual R G and B pixels on a display. With HDTV I notice every time a camera is slightly out of focus, or the white balance is a little off.. or the encoding is not of high quality. Although like CD's I am sure the quality will get better as the Networks get more comfortable with the format.

Jay:

My $5 Radio Shack Double Bowtie attic-mounted antenna “generically” pointed for all Lansing digital stations, combined with my 2+ year old Samsung tuner gives me a rock solid signal on WILX (and other area stations). WILX by far has the weakest signal but I have no drop-outs at all.

Is it time to check your coax, connections, …?

Workindood,

Gregg left here on Tuesday afternoon and said that he had to be back in Maine by Friday to catch a flight to Minneapolis. He also had a stop or two to make in Ohio on his way back home so I am sure he is long gone. I had started to do a search on local calibrators but was not having much luck (the ISF certified vendor list on their website is not very up to date) and then I was told (by Chris, thanks again!) that he was coming this way. I just made Gregg's deadline on getting scheduled on this trip (whew).

You can always email him (htflover@hotmail.com) to see when he will be back this way again.

The man truly loves his work!!!! And it shows!!!!

VIVO,

I originally had designs on trying it myself also. But all it took was one look at the service menu on my CRT and backed out right away! There was no way I was getting into that stuff. When Gregg got into it he made it look like childs play! Made me dizzy just trying to keep up with him! The cost of having him do it vs what it would have cost me to have the hair transplanted to replace what I would have pulled out trying it myself was no comparison. The downside of having him calibrate everything is now I am rewatching every DVD I have to see what I was missing!!!!!!! Thank goodness I have all the prep work for winter around here all done!

TTRider,

I did do some "minor" tweaking on my antenna around the same time WILX was having problems but didn't think that what I had done would cause me to lose my signal for 10 altogether. I have gotten them intermittently since and just thought that they might still be having problems. They REALLY must be low power! According to CEA, 10 is 182 degrees from my location, and my antenna is now pointing about 130 degrees where it was about 140 or so.

After first mounting it and making an "educated" guess on the direction I needed, I was able to get all the local stations, including 10 and then after looking at the CEA website and talking with the tech at antennasdirect that the DB4 has a range of about 100 degrees, the tower locations in regards to my location (SW Lansing) I tried to "split the difference" among all of them to get the best signal strength all the way around.

I got a somewhat improved signal from 6 and 23 at about 90 degrees (on the side of my antenna) and a little less from 47 at about 195 from me (again from the side), but since both ended up about 90 percent signal strength, it was a good compromise. However, in hindsight, it may be that I lost 10 in the process since I did move the antenna about 5-10 degrees more to the east of me. Guess I will have to get back up there and move it back (thank goodness I marked the mast) to see if that fixes it.

But if that is what ends up fixing my issue with WILX, then I am not sure if I will keep it that way since I most likely won't miss all that much from NBC. They don't really have any shows or sports on anymore that I really care about. I just "assumed" since they would be almost center of the antenna that I would get them at least as good as the others seeing how they are only about 16 miles from me.

I may try adding an amp to my connection to see if that helps any, but the best solution I can think of is to give the "Tool Man" a call and have him make a trip to Onondaga to apply MORE POWER!

Hi grover517,

A Gregg Loewen ISF Calibrated TV.

I am soooo jealous!

Happy viewing!

Are people still having problems with WILX-DT? I recall reading about it earlier, and posted then I had no problems, watched them again tonight and the signal was fine, even with my HD TiVo's weaker tuner. I'm not sure what is going on, I'm sitting here about 50+ miles out and get a great signal, you're20 or so mile out and have problems, weird.

Originally posted by TTRider
We received two mailings from Comcast today. The first was a postcard saying that WOOD NBC is gone in favor of a “Comcast Local” channel! They are “pleased” to announce the change. PAX will now be on channel 22.

Our second mailing was our monthly bill. In it, they proudly announced that effective with our next billing, we would be experiencing an 11+% monthly rate hike.

How nice of them.

GUYS - I hate to say it about cable, but that really sucks.

My NET increase over the past 3 years with Dish Network - $0.01

Yes, you read right, 1 cent. went from 34.98 to 34.99 last year, and they gave me two months notice and a free PPV movie coupon to boot.

Originally posted by VIVOtheFURY
Would very much like to see WB and UPN in HD on Comcast..

WB could be a problem.. since WPAX will never give us an HD feed for WB. They like splitting their Digital bandwith for 4 relatively worthless SD feeds. Think we are out of luck there... Bypass them completely in my over the air line-up as they aren't a real improvement over the standard cable feed.

Could Comcast pick WB and UPN off a Satellite feed and not use the local station???

I see you are north of town in Dewitt, so this may be possible:

You may have luck with NBC 25.1 (DT-30) out of Saginaw. They are not HD, but have a decent picture versus PAX43. They are broadcasting WB SD with Pistons coverage as well on 25.1 and NBC HD on 25.2

I am not sure why they have them flipped, but they do...

Jay/Grover
Thanks for the info. I am always a day late and a dollar short ;) . I am real curious to see how well my TV/System would be after a calibration by a Pro. My wife would think it would be a waste of time and money. But she is a "Silly Woman" and another story. ;)

As for the price increase on Comcast. Every year they increase the price and every year they have excuses for why we do not get more for our money. I would consider a Dish, however, I live in a real tree infested neighborhood and a Dish is out of the question. I pay enough to Comcast that when the On Demand feature is on-line I will not have to pay more. And that is what I want is the On Demand. Much later on when HD-Tivo's are within acceptable pricing I will get one of those.

EDIT: COOL!! Greg just replied to my email. He will be coming back to Lansing in March. Perfect! It is my birthday in March. Can not be denied my Birthday present. hehehe! He is also very reasonable in price as well. I expected more. He also said it could be sooner if more request him. <Hint-Hint>. That would be just in time for March Madness!!!

I have the "Digital Platinum package". What is available to me in Lansing Mi? Comcast talks about "College Basketball with ESPN FULL COURT", "NFL Network" (Suppose to be on channel 168...but I do not get channel 168).

Also I get all those NBA channels and MLB Channels, are they "Free" with the Platinum Package? If so am I just screwed because it is not fully available yet like On Demand and the DVR?

It would be great to have the NFL highlights. I do not always have the time to sit and watch a game.

Here is the web page from Comcast: http://www.comcast.com/Benefits/CableDetails/Slot2PageOne.asp

Anyone in the Lansing area (48906) that has any of these packages? Are they worth it? Are any in HD? I could call Comcast I guess, but I would like to hear from customers to get some real feedback.

I am just trying to figure if I should dumb down to another Gold or Silver package to save a few bucks. I feel I have payed way to much over the years. Or should I just stick it out since I am close to getting On Demand and DVR and all that jazz.

Any and all replies are welcomed and appreciated....truly!

Stephen
EDIT: PS Also I would like to meet some of you all in person and check out your system/set-ups. I am willing to learn more. I am sure some of you have decent Home Theaters systems. Mine is a Nice TV with 5.1 HTiB. Nothing special compared to most. But I am Gosh Darn THANKFUL I have it. Thank God for "Chick Flicks" so the Wife is happy and allowed this expense to happen without too much FLACK. :) Send me a PM.

Originally posted by Matt L
Are people still having problems with WILX-DT? I recall reading about it earlier, and posted then I had no problems, watched them again tonight and the signal was fine, even with my HD TiVo's weaker tuner. I'm not sure what is going on, I'm sitting here about 50+ miles out and get a great signal, you're20 or so mile out and have problems, weird.

Yeah, I've been having problems the last few weeks as well. I am 21 miles away (East Lansing). I used to get WILX-DT with a strength of mid 80's to 90, now I can not go above 30-35, sometimes it spikes up but it is very irregular and completely unwatchable.

I am 22.6 miles from the WILX tower. Here's my signal report:

CM 4248 @ approx. 20' up
w/ MyHD card: 81-87%
w/ Fusion 3 card: 94-100% (26.5 db avg)

CM 4221A @ ground level
(This antenna sits on the floor, behind a file drawer, 50% off-angle.)
w/ Fusion 3 card: 62-68% (17.5 db avg)

I will definately be recommending Gregg to a few others I know that have HD sets and don't have a clue on how good they can actually look. Thanks a bunch Chris for getting me in touch with him. I owe you one!

You're welcome Jay. I've seen Gregg's work, so I knew you would love the results. Glad to hear you were able to get him lined up for a job in March Stephen.

Now if I can just figure out why I can't get channel 10 OTA digital lately, I will be all set (see next post if you have a clue)

I had problems with WILX for months. I tried a different antenna, fine-tuning the direction, location, and even tilt of the antenna, and nothing helped. Finally, I disconnected my antenna from my Monster surge protector and, lo and behold, the signal strength jumped up from 25% to 95%. Having the surge protector in line didn't affect any other station, just WILX. I can't explain why. All I can say is, if you're running your coax through a surge protector, see what happens when you run it directly to your receiver.

Chris,

Gregg may just have more work to do around here in March. We had quite a number of "ooohs" and "ahhhs" around here during the football games Thursday from our Turkey Day guests. I let those who asked, know about Gregg's "tweaking" and think he may just be getting a few more emails in the near future! Even the ladies that were here and don't normally watch the games, were checking out the quality of the picture (or so they say), but I think the ladies were just admiring the "panty lines" in a lot more detail than they had ever seen before!!! :-)

As far as 10's signal strength, I have been busy the last couple of days testing out a few possibilities, and have had a couple of insights on where the problem may lie. Your comment on signal loss from a surge protector is somewhat where my thoughts have lied also, but from different components.

My OTA coax is passing thru a grounding block just before entering the basement from the outside (strike one).

I also have a 100 ft run of coax from the antenna (strike 2).

I tried disconnecting the antenna feed from my STB (strike three) and hooked it directly to the tv (has a digital tuner) and that made a difference. I was able to get a lock at about 40 percent.

Although none of this has changed since day one, maybe 10 is just not where they were as far as power output, or my tweaking the antenna alignment was enough to drop me out of the "lock" range for their signal.

So I pulled out the ole RCA set top UHF/VHF/FM set top antenna (10 years old?) and hooked that up just for fun. I got about a 60 percent signal strength, but since the antenna was in the middle of the house with walls blocking some signal, it was still enough to get a decent lock so that alone bodes well for the signal loss theory.

So, from my "fooling around" I have come to the conclusion that I am just losing enough signal (at least as far as 10 is concerned) from one or more of the possible problem areas, that I just can't get a lock on their weak signal after realigning my antenna a touch and it may need a little "more power" on my end.

Since none of my other digital signals are above 90 percent or so, I am going to try to add a preamp to the line (if the roof is snow free, hopefully today) to see if that gets me enough signal from 10 to get a lock without getting too much from the others, and I can keep everything in my "preferred" setup.

Of course from all of my past experience in these types of situations, as soon as I get this all resolved, 10 will boost their power and my impatience will be all for naught!!! :-)

Jay

I don't have a OTA tunner so I do not know the trouble you are experiencing. I have WILX on cable. I have noticed the sound is not all that in 5.1 at times. I was watching the News yesterday and it sounded hollow. However, since they added that to my cable WILX is so much better Digital wise then it was just on channel 4. It was always ghostly on 4. Where I use to switch to WOOD on 8 or 22 to get a better picture. I usually watch News and just regular TV through the TV speakers (That is why I like the HS510, it has a Sub-woofer) over using the 5.1.

About Greg coming in March. He stated that if he gets more interest then he will come sooner. Actually I can wait till March. I need time to recoup from Christmas...cash wise. Also it is my Birthday in March and the Wife can not deny me my "Present". hehehe. I just took her to the Amway Grand hotel for two nights for her birthday. She was Wined and Dined at the 1913 room( The only 5 Diamond restaurant in the state)..and Sunday brunch at Cyngus. That weekend was the price of a decent TV set.

Jay:

If adding the preamp doesn't boost the signal enough to lock on, keep the second antenna and switch between the two. That’s what I do to pull in Flint ABC and not have to fool with a rotor. Radio Shack sells an IR-controlled antenna switch for about $35. I taught the commands to my remote and now easily switch between the two antennas with no apparent signal loss.

-Update-

Well I got up on the roof yesterday during the drizzle and added the preamp. This is what I added:

RatShack TV/HDTV/VCR/FM Antenna-Mounted High-Gain Signal Amplifier
Catalog #: 15-2507

I wanted to get a pure UHF amp from Channel Master or the one from AntennasDirect, but was unable to find a local retailer quickly enough and didn't want to wait much longer to have one shipped unless this didn't work out.

I now am able to get 10 with about a 70 percent signal strength and even improved the signal strength from the channels I already recieved (6, 23, 43, 47, 53) to almost 100 percent (from 90). So this has solved that problem!

Another plus of adding the preamp is that I now also get 41 digital out of Battle Creek with a signal strength of about 50 percent which was a "no show" previously. Even the higher end analog stations (12 Flint, 8 GR, and 10) as well as the local UHF analog channels come in just fine now where before they were quite snowy.

So now I will be getting back up there either today or tomorrow for a little more tweaking on my antenna direction to see if by adding the preamp and trying different directions on the antenna, I can get a better "sweet spot" to try and keep acceptable strengths on the current digital channels and maybe add 12 and/or 8 digital channels to the mix.

Jay

Ok..Ok...Comcast is annoying. Once again we get pimped because the Pistons were on channel 8 instead of Enterprise. Are they suppose to flip on channel 50 instead? I go to see if 50 has Enterprise and get the infamous FCC screen. Plain annoying.

Not everybody wants to watch sports all the time. I gave up on the NBA with the last player's strike.

I really thought when one channel is preempted then the other blocked channel's signal is let through.

I guess that is one reason to get a OTA tuner and antenna.

Originally posted by Workindood
Ok..Ok...Comcast is annoying. Once again we get pimped because the Pistons were on channel 8 instead of Enterprise. Are they suppose to flip on channel 50 instead? I go to see if 50 has Enterprise and get the infamous FCC screen. Plain annoying.

Not everybody wants to watch sports all the time. I gave up on the NBA with the last player's strike.

I really thought when one channel is preempted then the other blocked channel's signal is let through.

I guess that is one reason to get a OTA tuner and antenna. The problem is that UPN18 isn't broadcasting a digital signal yet (if ever) so an OTA wouldn't help in this case.

FYI, Enterprise looks like it will be on tomorrow night (Saturday) on UPN18 at 8pm.:)

Really...hmmmm. Dang IT. I'll be out at my wife's Office Christmas party.

I have a post in Home Theater General "What we watched..." All about this problem. (Sigh)

Thank you..just the same.

You would think that they would just "turn on" Channel 50 at the same time. Didn't "they" say that was the deal when all this crying about FCC rules was invoked? I thought the Cable companies were going to watchdog this for OUR benefit? Oh...wait...I am talking about a Cable Company...never mind :(

Originally posted by Workindood
Really...hmmmm. Dang IT. I'll be out at my wife's Office Christmas party.

I have a post in Home Theater General "What we watched..." All about this problem. (Sigh)

Thank you..just the same.

You would think that they would just "turn on" Channel 50 at the same time. Didn't "they" say that was the deal when all this crying about FCC rules was invoked? I thought the Cable companies were going to watchdog this for OUR benefit? Oh...wait...I am talking about a Cable Company...never mind :( Looks like they are showing it again on Sunday night at 10pm as well. :)

This may be a little off topic for the thread, but it does tick me off that I'm forced to watch the horribly substandard UPN18 because of these rules. I'd been watching Star Trek on TV50 for nearly 30 years, from late night classic reruns, to Next Gen, and beyond! They were the only UPN affiliate in Lansing for years, now because this other, closer station is an affiliate, we are stuck with them for first run UPN stuff. I don't know about you, but UPN18 over my cable looks atrocious. Blow that image up to a 42" plasma, and it's nearly unwatchable. The only good thing about it is it gives me an incentive to buy the anamorphic widescreen DVD's that will be coming out next year.:rolleyes:

hmm..Sunday...10pm. I can't win. I go to sleep early on work nights. I get up at 4am. My saving throw is my friend will burn the episode on his Tivo for me.

My saving throw is my friend will burn the episode on his Tivo for me.

Why not just download the show via torrent (http://www.btefnet.com/index.php?show=19)?

Lansing Comcast now has Dual Tuner HDTV boxes with the 120GB? Hard Disks!

If you already have a Comcast HD DVR box.. you can take it to the office at Miller Road and trade it for the new one. There is a new remote(PIP functions). Of course the Dual Tuner box is yet another $5/month over the Single Tuner version.

Will hook it up when I get home tonight.. Keeping my finger crossed!

Wish it was possible to choose a higher quality MPEG encoding for the SD analogue stuff! Doesn't seem like it would be hard for them to allow the user to select the encoding quality(bitrate) level for Analogue... does it?

Originally posted by srgilbert

They [channel 50] were the only UPN affiliate in Lansing for years, now because this other, closer station is an affiliate, we are stuck with them for first run UPN stuff. I don't know about you, but UPN18 over my cable looks atrocious. [/B]

WHTV is a relatively low power station (200kW)*side mounted on WLAJ's tower. Their main lobe of the directional antenna is toward Jackson. I'm sometimes amazed that it looks as good as it does up here. The poor signal of WHTV on Comcast in the Lansing area, is not the fault of Comcast, it's just a poor signal to start with.

You might be interested to know that WOOD is carrying their Low Power UPN station (WXSP) on WOOD-DT, I think it was 8-2 (RF channel 7) But they run the basketball games blocking Enterprise on Friday even more often than does WHTV.

Also, I think it was mentioned before that WEYI is carrying the WB100 service on their DT channel.


*compare to WLAJ which is authorized 1,400kW.

Interesting side note, it appears from the FCC database that WHTV's last application (which "was accepted" but is not listed as approved) to extend their digital television construction permit expired in October.

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_list.pl?Facility_id=29706

Chris:

Tell me more about Torrent - please!

I'll have to check out this "Torrent". As for getting a DVR box, it is not available to me yet. You Dewitters have it, I just live south of Dewitt in Lansing(near the Airport) and of course I have none of the cool stuff even though I pay enough to get it for no extra charge. I whined about this in another post before :D

That would fix all of my viewing problems. I would watch all the shows I missed when I get home from work in the afternoon before the wife gets home later in the evening.

So now I must go check out this Torrent that the Wise Chris White just mentioned. hmmm...he is wise. I think I'll just call him Gandalf the White from now on ;)

Tell me more about Torrent - please!

1. Download/install a bit torrent program. I like Bit Tornado (http://bittornado.com/).
2. Select a torrent server. I think btefnet.com (http://btefnet.com/) is the best for tv shows.
3. Use your torrent program to download the show you want.
4. If you have an htpc connected to your tv, you can simply watch the downloaded avi file using your favorite media player (I like DivxPro).
5. If you don't have an htpc, you can use a program like Nero or Sonic to convert the avi to dvd-compliant mpg file that you then burn on a dvd.

The torrent file you download will be approximately dvd quality (definitely better than my Replay's video quality) and all the commercials will have been removed.

I think I'll just call him Gandalf the White from now on

LOL! :)

Originally posted by VIVOtheFURY
Lansing Comcast now has Dual Tuner HDTV boxes with the 120GB? Hard Disks!

If you already have a Comcast HD DVR box.. you can take it to the office at Miller Road and trade it for the new one. There is a new remote(PIP functions). Of course the Dual Tuner box is yet another $5/month over the Single Tuner version.

Will hook it up when I get home tonight.. Keeping my finger crossed!

Wish it was possible to choose a higher quality MPEG encoding for the SD analogue stuff! Doesn't seem like it would be hard for them to allow the user to select the encoding quality(bitrate) level for Analogue... does it?

Just got off the phone with comcast, they told me the 6208 IS the newest box (whatever), and there is no alternative to it here in Lansing that they know of...

Very curious who you talked to or how you even knew of this new box and also how did you get around the usual (service fee visit they pull for hd box installs) I too can swap a box out (currently have the 6208) but had read around that others are being charged to upgrade the box vs being allowed to walk in and swap out...


Oh yeah is the menu system any better (closer to tivo yet?) timeline to view how much program is left during viewing etc etc????

Thanks for ANY help as comcast over the phone is offering no info of anykind...

I am in East Lansing but still you'd think they would at least know about the box on the phone they acted as if I was a moron asking for a dual tuner newer box than the 6208...

anyone with info that can help please lmk,
BillAustin@comcast.net

Yep... If you already have a 6208 box.. you can just take it to Miller Road and Swap it out for a 6412. Additional $5/month over your 6208.

First 6412 I brought back from the Comcast center on Milller Road got nuked by an overzealous phone support person(sent it two BIG hits). Swapped that one for a new one today. This Phone Support person started with the smallest hit she could send and worked up. When she sent the second smallest refresh.. my box was immediatly running with all the correct channels available.

Yes.. this has the new guide. It is a BIG improvement over the old one. The fast forward-rewind function has changed significantly as well.. and amazingly smooth FFWD/REW compared to the 6208 box.. does not get jerky at even at the fourth(very fast) level. There is even a bar on the screen that represents where you are in the recording even showing the wall clock time of the place you are at.

No.. you can't just skip to a certain point.. which I also find annoying. .I have that with the Time Shift and record on my ATI AIW card. As you say.. with football games.. having to use FF is extemely agravating!

Still seem to be a few glitches.. but much better.. .you can even pick your own color scheme for the menu.

Dual tuner works, and you can swap back and forth, but the PIP function doesn't work.. although the HD Zoom function has never worked either so I'm not shocked.

Comcast is nutty,,,

Just got off the phone with "angela" CSR, she says yes that box is available in my area and proceeds to tell me about the new $75 deposit required which I need to pay first then they will schedule a service call and that I could not go in and swap out a box because it requires special service tech turn on type installation (and proceeded to also tell me if anyone told me different they were mistaken or lying) - no offense to vivo, i know comcasts level of knowledge...

Of course there would be an additional charge for that service visit to pick up and properly install this new box as well as the extra per month fees (which I knew about and was ok with thanks to vivo's post).

I said well maybe I will have to switch over to satellite service or something since there is a deposit for a cable box? (in a nice but firm way) She didn't budge on the deposit costs or the install costs...and said would you like to pay for that now?

I hung up thinking wow I pay them $140 a month and I get limited hd channels, jerky hd service, subpar menus/controls on the pvr --- should I stay and pay this deposit ontop of the install fees????? hummmm

Guess I will try to walk into my local office tomorrow and see what they say or do if I hand them the box and refuse the deposit costs (if they even have the new boxes in the Trobridge office) cuz the office on miller doesn't allow turn in or switch outs for east lansing residents according to the comcast website...

Just kills me i call once they all but convince me I am in a dream and the 6208 IS the newest box, 6 hours later I call again and yes suddenly they do have these dual tuner boxes but its now a $75 deposit and install charge with service call only (no exceptions),,, all just starting to sound a bit goofy...

Being in East Lansing.. I think you get screwed for the $75 dollar Deposit and the install. (thank being in the same town as MSU for that!)

The college kids would pull the 120GB hard drive and use it for their computers and never return the box.. LOL Understand that the $75 is about what that drive is worth...

Sad but true your probably 100% right about the EAST L/MSU thing, its sooo sad I moved from Chicago IL and I pay MORE for car insurance here in east lansing than I did in Chicago and when I asked why is that (37 male married no accidents or tickets) they said it was because we were 5 miles from MSU.

Now if I could only find a good GYRO in this area, off the turning spit type - not that preformed processed heated / grilled meat junk...closest I have found is in Meridian Mall in Okemos, at least it came from a turning spit vs what champps, parthenon and bell's greek have tried to serve me.

Thanks again for the info, I will do the walk in with my box and just see what they say if nothing else I will ask for a swap out of mine since its acting up (jerky on playback bad) and they have been out 2x to test lines etc, yet when they come and do a test and record and playback it seems to work fine at that moment.

Bill :)

Hey FTLOSM, haven't seen you around here for awhile. Refresh my memory, why are you putting up with all the comcast garbage? With your location you should be able to get all the HD OTA, and I seem to recall you had D, so you must still have the equipment. Is it the PVR? I know the HD TiVo is a bit pricey, but I got a good deal on mine and love it. It's addictive, I really rely on my HD TiVo, I find I don't watch a show unless it's HD ( there are exceptions...) and being able to time shift is great, so I can see where you might not want to give that up...

I just got off he phone with Comcast. Seems that DVRs are available to me in North Lansing. However they are OUT of DUAL tuners until January. (Figures). Also that is to far out to schedule a appointment to install. (Figures #2)

So I am going to wait until then. I can get a single tuner DVR now, but why when the cost per month is the same.

I asked if I record a HDTV source will I "see" it in HD on the replay. Comcast said yes I will. That part is important.

Anyways...I thought I would pass this info on.

Originally posted by Matt L
Hey FTLOSM, haven't seen you around here for awhile. Refresh my memory, why are you putting up with all the comcast garbage? With your location you should be able to get all the HD OTA, and I seem to recall you had D, so you must still have the equipment. Is it the PVR? I know the HD TiVo is a bit pricey, but I got a good deal on mine and love it. It's addictive, I really rely on my HD TiVo, I find I don't watch a show unless it's HD ( there are exceptions...) and being able to time shift is great, so I can see where you might not want to give that up...

I do have the Directv HD box (mitsu srhd400) yet dont have directv service at this time, I can get all my locals thru that box no problem in OTA HD, and am thinking about hooking that box back up soon, problem is my tv has only one input for hd so I have to swap the cables around everytime I wanna switch from the comcast pvr to the directv ota tunerbox....

I know they make a nice directv box with hd and tivo and I want one (I think it was around a grand at best buy) and I want to go back to directv too, yet my wife is still mad about the grand I spent on this srhd400 and last time I talked to directv they said I would have to buy new cards (p4 i think they called it) I have those old football cards, so there again they get ya one way or another...LOL...

I have been thinking about trying voom, and it looks like in 2005 they will have a pvr too! From what I read (unless I misunderstood) it sounds as if thru their hd box you get lots of hd but also it reads as if you can also (in that same box) get your local ota hd stuff...

I have an old series 1 tivo hooked up thru my basic cable line and woudn't cancel basic cable (would keep just for the tivo) and cuz I have their internet access which I DO enjoy hispeed.

But for primetime viewing the hd source programs are where its at for me tivo catches goofy stuff like oprah for my wife and certain morning cartoons for my daughter and a few lesser programs that are on at the same time as others (I watch one live and in hd if possible thru comcast box, and record off that other input source thru tivo in basic if its a program i really wanna see)...

Guess I just wish things were simpler, after all these years of having an hd tv you still have to do an awful lot of $$ OOP or fidle with this or that (ota antenna stuff etc etc).

I wish that comcast had all the locals in hd or even if their box allowed for OTA antenna input for the hd locals (that would be a big step) if so id even bite this install and deposit garbage they are feeding me, this new dual tuner does sound nice and all yet it seems like they jab me everytime I call for something (almost a hundred bucks to just get this new box after deposit and service call) and again wife wasn't happy about MORE costs to comcast...

At this point I think I am gonna wrap the box up take it into the local office, ask about the dual tuner and if nothing else most likely return it and just keep their basic service (lower my bill bigtime) and just hook that old directv box up for local ota hd...

I sure wish it was simpler tho...

But yea overall my choice right now if i were given the ok to spend even more $$ on hd stuff would be to buy that dual tuner directv tivo hd unit and go back with them...

Bill :)

Originally posted by Chris White
1. Download/install a bit torrent program. I like Bit Tornado (http://bittornado.com/).


LOL! :)

It looks to me that Torrent is like Napster on steroids. It will allow you to download copies, but the trade off is that your computer is also used as a server to other people needing files. Enterprise can't be so important that you'll want to melt your NIC card.

I imagine sooner rather than later folk using Torrent will be visited by deputies with subpoenas.