Count me in as a frequent viewer of your HD feed. It would be a real shame to see it cut - it is the future.

I watch the PBS HD station also, would hate to lose it.

Hello Gary and others,

I've been reading the mail here for a while, but thought I would register and let you know that I also like the HD programing from WKAR-DT. I've only had a digital receiver for a short time and I use an old SD TV to watch, but WKAR-DT/PBS-HD and the weather radar from WOOD-DT in Grand Rapids are two of the big reasons why I bought the receiver. Now I'm saving up to get a HDTV.

I've sent a donation to the radio station this year, but I guess it's time write a check to the digital TV station also.


Mark

Has anyone heard anything about when Comcast will be adding CBS, ABC and Fox to the HD lineup in the Lansing area? All we get in HD is NBC and PBS now. Seems to be taking a very long time to get the rest of the networks.

I watch specials such as the July 4th spectacular.

Gary, what are your options? I enjoy the HD programming on WKAR, but what impact will this decision have on other aspects of the station?

Gary: You can add me to the list of frequent WKAR-HD viewers.

Thank you all. Unless something wicked happens between now and October 1st (when the license is due for renewal) we'll be renewing the rights to run the PBS HD Channel.

Has anyone heard anything about when Comcast will be adding CBS, ABC and Fox to the HD lineup in the Lansing area? All we get in HD is NBC and PBS now. Seems to be taking a very long time to get the rest of the networks.

My understanding is that the commercial stations want more $$ per viewer for the HD channels than Comcast is willing to pay. I don't know what the dollar figures are, or who is on the "right" end of the negotiations (if either party is.) The hold-up is financial rather than technological.

WKAR as a public television station provides our signal(s) to Comcast and all other cable and satellite providers at no charge.

Thanks Gary, I thought it might be something like that. WKAR sets an example that others should follow. WKAR is a credit to the broadcast industry and very much a class act.

Thanks Gary, I thought it might be something like that. WKAR sets an example that others should follow. WKAR is a credit to the broadcast industry and very much a class act.

Thank you. (But the truth is that under FCC regulations public television stations are NOT allowed to charge cable systems or satellite systems for our signal. We can only elect must carry, so, it may not be as magnanamous as one would think at first)

Gary,

I'm chiming in late here, but could me in as a viewer of WKAR-DT as well. Great that you'll be renewing your PBS-HD license. If you ever need a check of reception conditions close to the tower, let me know.

Any reason that WLAJ hasn't been broadcasting in HD? I've been getting a stretched SD signal for a couple of days now. They used to pillarbox the SD.

I hope this is the right place to ask this quesiton. I am a total HDTV newbie moving into the Howell area (48843 - on the Howell/Pinckney border). Where I am moving, the association prohibits large antennas on roofs, and so does my wife ;) I was wondering what stations I could expect to pick up with a standard over the air antenna from inside my house. I see Terk and a few others make indoor HDTV receivers.

Any help is appreciated. I move in a few weeks and am trying to figure out houw I am going to get my HDTV - Charter cable sucks and only offers 3 channels in HD format...

Ah yes, what is the magic that Terk casts over newbies? Adawg88, just one thing to remember is TERK=CRAP. You really are in a prime location receptionwise, if you go to www.antennaweb.org you will find you are close to the Lansing stations and only 30+ miles from the Detroit stations, and a bit further from the Flint stations. All the Detroit HD stations are UHF at the moment, and will be for some time so if your opting for a simple installation I'd point an antenna that way. Detroit has WB in HD as well as UPN in HD which Lansing lacks.

If you want the most options get a rotor, and you should be able to get more stations than you will be able to watch. I'd go for a inobtrusive Channel Master 8 bay bowtie mounted on the roof, it really isn't that noticable, and failing that mount it in the attic, but if you do that you may need to add an amp such as the CM 77xx series.

There are a few others here from your area maybe they'll post and mention what they are using, or you could search this thread.

Any reason that WLAJ hasn't been broadcasting in HD? I've been getting a stretched SD signal for a couple of days now. They used to pillarbox the SD.

I found your message interesting, as I've been having problems receiving WLAJ-HD for the past week or so. My tuner shows good signal strength but there is no audio or video, just a black screen. It just seems like WLAJ isn't broadcasting anything, which seems strange. Has anyone else had problems with this station lately? I've been resorting to the WJRT from Flint for ABC programming.

[QUOTE=Matt L]You really are in a prime location receptionwise, if you go to -link removed as it thinks I am a spammer- ,you will find you are close to the Lansing stations and only 30+ miles from the Detroit stations, and a bit further from the Flint stations. All the Detroit HD stations are UHF at the moment, and will be for some time so if your opting for a simple installation I'd point an antenna that way. Detroit has WB in HD as well as UPN in HD which Lansing lacks.

If you want the most options get a rotor, and you should be able to get more stations than you will be able to watch. I'd go for a inobtrusive Channel Master 8 bay bowtie mounted on the roof, it really isn't that noticable, and failing that mount it in the attic, but if you do that you may need to add an amp such as the CM 77xx series.
[QUOTE]

Any chance something like a silver senor (that I read about here) will work for me? I really am just using this as a stop-gap measure until DirecTV starts offering locals in High-Def, which I have been told several times will be by Jan 1.

Thanks for your help!

Hey, you can try a Silver Senor, get one at Sears, try it and take it back if it doesn't work. I wouldn't hold my breath on D and HD Locals, true - Detroit is one of the first wave cities, but I don't think you really qualify as Detroit. Of course you could "Move" but given the option of D or OTA HD Locals I'd take OTA hands down. At this point D is really HD Lite as many posters have noted and while they will have much more capability in the future neither you nor I can guess how much of the signal they will pass.

With a good outdoor antenna you should be able to get 15 OTA digital stations, much more than d will ever offer you.

adawg88, I have read somewhere that the FCC has ruled that if you own the property, you can have an outdoor antenna regardless of the assosiation rules, the federal law overrides their rules, of course this doesn't apply to rental units. Anyway as someone else mentioned, you can put one in the attic if you have access. That would give you better reception than in the room with the TV. You are in a good area to receive OTA signals so you should get good results. Good luck.

I wouldn't hold my breath on D and HD Locals, true - Detroit is one of the first wave cities, but I don't think you really qualify as Detroit. .

Never thought of that. Actually though D* told me when I called I qualified for the Detroit locals. I have to look more into what they are planning to offer for HD service at year's end.

Haven't tried it, but from Howell you can probally pick up either Lansing or Detroit locals in HD with a simple Silver Sensor antenna, for around $30-40.

If you want to try one, I think Best Buy or Radio Shack sell them, if it doesn't work well just return it. Heck, even WalMart sold them at one point. There are other brands, but they work mostly the same as long as they match the silver sensor design. If you aren't sure what that antenna is just google it, you'll find it.

Hello All...Been awhile for me here.

Has anyone heard when Comcast is making OnDemand available in the Lansing area? I am real tired of paying the Premium Price with out getting the full service.

Also, to repeat Larry's post....anyone know when we are getting more Network channels in HD as well? This is getting old too....

Thanks....

I found your message interesting, as I've been having problems receiving WLAJ-HD for the past week or so. My tuner shows good signal strength but there is no audio or video, just a black screen. It just seems like WLAJ isn't broadcasting anything, which seems strange. Has anyone else had problems with this station lately? I've been resorting to the WJRT from Flint for ABC programming.

Same here. 53-1 shows good signal strength, but no video or audio. 53-2 is coming in, but not 53-1.

53.1 was back last night in all it's glory. Let's hope it stays. I'm now having problems receiving WLNS-HD. I usually get a very strong signal for 6.1, but lately it intermittently drops to almost nothing. Anyone else have this problem?

I got WLAJ back as well. It was only stretched on my end because I had my tuner set to stretch SD signals. WLAJ was broadcasting SD on 53-1 and 53-2. It seems to be fixed now.

Hi Guys -- I just posted this in the GR thread, but figure I will try here too -- appreciate any help (if I missed a KZ thread please let me know)

Hey guys - I moved to the KZ area recently and just got my HDTV with a built in Tuner (I have had an other HD-Monitor for a couple of years, but always relied on Cable). I have Charter as a provider -- could actually change to comcast since they both serve where I live, but they don't have HD here yet. So the big issue I have is getting CBS in HD. I don't care about the others since I can get them through Charter (at least that is what I understood from talking to them and I am not getting the HD-STB until Wednesday) -- well I bought three indoor antennas yesterday to try out and got ABC in stunning HD and some other digital stuff -- Pax and WBN etc. However, I only got a horrible horrible analog picture for CBS. So the question is -- can I get CBS in HD through OTA in Kalamazoo -- actually in Ostemo around exit 36 - I appreciate any advice in regards to antenna and where to angle it and what the actual channel is. Can I get both CBS from GR and Lansing so I should try different channel-numbers / directions?

Appreciate any help and thanks in advance!
By the way I have the standard STB now -- will the swap to HD-STB degrade the regular picture? I am happily surprised with that and if a Cable-Card would give me a noticable better picture I am willing to pay that $1.50 / month extra -- anyone play around with this???

Thanks!

Mhdiab

The CBS station in Kalamazoo is located north-northeast of you and is on channel 2. If you are using a indoor antenna you need to use the long "rabbit ears" type of antenna. The NBC station out of Grand Rapids is also on VHF on channel 7 and should be close to the same direction from your location. The NBC stationi also has the GR UPN station in SD, and their weather radar on sub-channels. A UHF antenna will work better for the other stations you want to pick up. You could use a VHF/UHF splitter to connect both antennas with just one cable going into your receiver.

The CBS station out of Lansing is on channel 59 UHF and is located east of Lansing. My guess is you would need a good antenna to get that from your location.

Good Luck,
Mark

Hello,

I must be doing something wrong. I'm in holt near 127 and 96 and I can only pickup 6, 10, and 23 No ABC or Fox. I've used three different antenna's the last one being a TV38 mounted in my attic. My little silver screen I bought on amazon for 19 bucks seems to work the best. Any suggestions on picking up ABC and FOX?

Thanks
Dan

From Holt 5, 10, and 23 are all generally north (and east) while ABC and Fox are generally southwest. a good directional antenna (with rotor) is always the best way to go. You could get 3 stations one way and 2 stations in another direction. A top quality antenna (that picks up in all directions) is not nearly as good but, as you are quite close to all stations, it could work. A pre amp should not be required. You are probably within 15 miles of all stations.

Sorry. I am new to this. In previous post that should read 6, 10, and 23.....CBS, NBC, and Public TV....

Anyone know about how far out UPN18 is from getting there digital station up and running? I want to watch Veronica Mars in HD.

Anyone know about how far out UPN18 is from getting there digital station up and running? I want to watch Veronica Mars in HD.

Post #992 on 7-21-05 has information about WHTV's digital station. I have not heard if they are on the air yet, when they are the programming will be Standard Definition only, and that from an off-air pick up of their Channel 18 station.

Hello,

I must be doing something wrong. I'm in holt near 127 and 96 and I can only pickup 6, 10, and 23 No ABC or Fox. I've used three different antenna's the last one being a TV38 mounted in my attic. My little silver screen I bought on amazon for 19 bucks seems to work the best. Any suggestions on picking up ABC and FOX?

Thanks
Dan

See http://www.antennaweb.org for aiming and antenna size recommendations. You will need to re-aim antenna to get the different stations. Generally an outdoor antenna is recommended for DTV reception, as 8vsb is more fragile than analog.

Net NTSC Digital Transmitter Location
CBS 6 59 Williamston
PBS 23 55 Okemos
UPN 18 34 Rives Junction (Digital in Jackson, if it's on)
ABC 53 51 Rives Junction (same tower as WHTV's analog)
NBC 10 57 Onondaga
FoX 47 38 Eaton Rapids

Odd that you can get 57 (10) but not 51 (53). 57 is at much less power than 51 and from Holt would seem to be almost the same angle. Maybe you are getting some ghosting (multipath) that is interfering with the signal?

Post #992 on 7-21-05 has information about WHTV's digital station. I have not heard if they are on the air yet, when they are the programming will be Standard Definition only, and that from an off-air pick up of their Channel 18 station.

That's worth waiting for.. NOT! Like 1930's tape recordings being tranfered to CD. :-( What a crock.. And they call that "DIGITAL"??? In cases like that(and WB) the FCC should let the local cable providers pick up the HD network feed direct from the satellite!!!!

I think that should be true for PBS as well.. I would much rather have the full bit rate network feed(1080i) than the dynamically downsampled and format changed(720p) version put out. Why should those of us with cable be forced to watch lower quality programming just because these stations want to put more channels(that we won't get anyways) on the air???

Thanks wb8tgy

I didn't manage to get the signal over the weekend so real annoyed by that. To many issues to mention on why I can't put up an outdoor antenna so does anyone know where you buy the longest and best rabbit-ears for VHF? :)

I really don't care how ugly it looks -- I just need to put them up every Sunday during the season and then I can watch CBS in SD during every other day. I tried 3-4 stores over the weekend and nothing worked .....

Thanks!

Does anyone know what power WILX and WSYM are running. They both have a Temporary authority at a low power, but a Construction Permit for a higher power. WILX Temp Authority is 43Kw but CP for 946Kw, likewise WSYM Temp Auth is for 646Kw and a CP for 1000KW. The reason I ask is because WILX seems to be a difficult station to lock from my location. WLNS and WLAJ both are over 90, but WILX is barely 50 and WSYM is around 65. It also is very dependant on where the antenna is pointed.

Mhdiab,

A couple of things about "rabbit ear" antennas, you can adjust the lengh to help with the signal. For channel 2 you will need them all the way out, the longer the better for channel 2. There are some rabbit ear antennas what have a pre-amp built into them, that could help. If your getting interference from something near the antenna the preamp will not help, and could make things worse. You may want to move the rabbit ears antenna to different spots and see if you can find a better location for it.


Another antenna you could build (cheap) and just put up when you want to watch channel 2 is a folded dipole made from 300 ohm "twin lead". If you do a search on Google on "channel 2 TV dipole antenna" you will find a page from wfu.edu that tells how to build one. This type of antenna can work real well, and you could mount it in a attic.


Good luck,
Mark

I live in Trappers Cove, which is at the corner of I496 and I96.

I have one silver sensor indoor antenna.

The apartment is very close to WKAR and WLNS, I can always get strong signal.

and I can get good signal from

WZPX-DT
WSYM-DT
WLAJ-DT

but I cannot get WILX-DT, from media center, it can get two bars, but cannot lock on the signal. it is 18 miles from my apartment, while WZPX is 26 miles away.

does WILX have much lower transmission power?

but I cannot get WILX-DT, from media center, it can get two bars, but cannot lock on the signal. it is 18 miles from my apartment, while WZPX is 26 miles away.

does WILX have much lower transmission power?

Yes, see post 1036. What is "media center"?

Does anyone know what power WILX and WSYM are running. They both have a Temporary authority at a low power, but a Construction Permit for a higher power. WILX Temp Authority is 43Kw but CP for 946Kw, likewise WSYM Temp Auth is for 646Kw and a CP for 1000KW. The reason I ask is because WILX seems to be a difficult station to lock from my location. WLNS and WLAJ both are over 90, but WILX is barely 50 and WSYM is around 65. It also is very dependant on where the antenna is pointed.

WILX is currently running at the 43kW you mention, this was sufficent to provide a 48dBu signal over their city of license, Onondaga. They are in process of doing a build-out to maximize thier power at 1,000,000 watts. They have to do this to protect their maximization potential on channel 10, for after the transition period.

I think that should be true for PBS as well.. I would much rather have the full bit rate network feed(1080i) than the dynamically downsampled and format changed(720p) version put out. Why should those of us with cable be forced to watch lower quality programming just because these stations want to put more channels(that we won't get anyways) on the air???

There really isn't a full bit rate PBS network feed. PBS sends the 1080i feed to member stations within a 19.4 mbps stream (video about 15mbps), so, it is already heavily compressed.

We have to decode and re-encode the network signal from PBS, in order to comply with PSIP, station ID, and Emergency Alert System requirements. We found that when we decoded and re-encoded at 1080i the process was adding a lot of macroblocking. We changed to 720p for the encode and found that we were not adding any further macroblocking to the picture. The encoders are much more efficient at encoding 720p than 1080i. Yes, there is a resolution loss in this process, but we thought the resolution loss was less damaging to the picture than seeing the blocks all the time.

(edited) I should also explain that the vast majority of programming on the PBS|HD channel is WIDESCREEN upconversions not HD. The presence of the "PBS|HD" logo does NOT indicate that the program is in High Definition, just that it is (a) a PBS program and (b) on the HD CHannel.

We do also have a standard definition simulcast of WKAR-TV. At the time we did it, it was required by the FCC. The simulcast is no longer required, but we have several cable systems which are using that SD to feed the analog distribution on their cable systems, so, we're kind of stuck with it.

We are statistically multiplexing our DT channel, with the priority to the HD signal, this means that if/when the HD needs additional bits it can take them from the SD service. Likewise, if the HD doesn't need the bits, the SD can use them.

WILX is the most difficult channel for me to get a solid and consistant lock on, even with my outdoor antenna facing right at the transmitter (by use of a rotator).

It's pretty annoying while trying to watch NASCAR.

Media Center is Windows Media Center, with installed HDTV card, I can watch and record HDTV OTA.

I am wondering when WILX will put their new tower in use. with indoor antenna, there is no way I can receive it.

Media Center is Windows Media Center, with installed HDTV card, I can watch and record HDTV OTA.

I am wondering when WILX will put their new tower in use. with indoor antenna, there is no way I can receive it.

Uh, call them and ask.

The general recommendation for 8vsb reception is outdoor antennas, even the multipath from the human walking around in the room can be sufficient to make the blue screen of death.

I think channel 18 is testing. My 811 has it remapped at 18-34 right now. I live in Charotte and I am just able to pick it up. No picture yet just a black screen.

befor I had chance to call WILX some time today, I tried with my indoor antenna last night. it's amazing that I received strong signal from WILX. I used to just have two bars, now its signal is as stronger as WLAX. so I assume their new tower is in use.

Indoor Antenna is of no problem especially for us who live in apartment.

Thanks, no more complain, hope that we can have more HDTV channels in Lansing area.

Uh, call them and ask.

The general recommendation for 8vsb reception is outdoor antennas, even the multipath from the human walking around in the room can be sufficient to make the blue screen of death.
Inddor antennas are tricky. I have mine in a spot that picks up all the locals without the need for moving it. It's also away from where people walk. If the antenna ever gets moved from its magic spot, it takes me a couple of minutes to get it back.

I haven't been able to get a blip from upn18.

I think channel 18 is testing. My 811 has it remapped at 18-34 right now. I live in Charotte and I am just able to pick it up. No picture yet just a black screen.Hey, just in time for the new season of Star Trek: Enterprise! (In case you can't tell, I'm being sarcastic....stupid Paramount.)

I've been enjoying HDTV since June. Lately, all the networks have been coming in well through my rooftop antenna, but the TV Guide program information has been largely missing for the past two weeks or so. Although not essential, the guide is a nice addition to the experience and makes it really easy to program my Sony DHG-HDD500. Has anyone else noticed this problem? What station(s) in the area actually broadcast this information?

I've been enjoying HDTV since June. Lately, all the networks have been coming in well through my rooftop antenna, but the TV Guide program information has been largely missing for the past two weeks or so. Although not essential, the guide is a nice addition to the experience and makes it really easy to program my Sony DHG-HDD500. Has anyone else noticed this problem? What station(s) in the area actually broadcast this information?

Do you specifically mean "TV Guide" in which case WKAR transmits the data in the vertical interval of analog channel 23. The Norpack GES-3 says it is "inserting" data, and I see it in the vertical interval.

If this isn't working for you now, drop me a note and I'll call TV Guide/National Datacasting and let them know. garyb@wkar.msu.edu

Or do you mean the programming guide information that comes in the DTV station's PSIP data stream, in which case each station is responsible for that information.

WKAR's PSIP data is present as I type this message. (19:45EDT 08/26/05)

Do you specifically mean "TV Guide" in which case WKAR transmits the data in the vertical interval of analog channel 23. The Norpack GES-3 says it is "inserting" data, and I see it in the vertical interval.

If this isn't working for you now, drop me a note and I'll call TV Guide/National Datacasting and let them know. garyb@wkar.msu.edu

Or do you mean the programming guide information that comes in the DTV station's PSIP data stream, in which case each station is responsible for that information.

WKAR's PSIP data is present as I type this message. (19:45EDT 08/26/05)

Gary - I'm referring to the TV Guide electronic program guide that shows programming details for all the local stations. Worked like a charm from June through July, then became spotty in early August, and has been non-existent for the past three weeks or so. Every time slot says "no listing." I've been leaving my HD receiver off when not in use (it needs to be off to download the TV Guide PG) and WKAR-analog comes in crystal clear, so I don't think the problem is on my end. I appreciate your offer to check with TV Guide/National Datacasting on this issue. If they have any suggestions on restoring this service, please let me know.

Are any of you using indoor antennas with good luck? If so what are you using? I plan on purchasing a card for my computer to play HDTV on my tv.

Every time slot says "no listing." I've been leaving my HD receiver off when not in use (it needs to be off to download the TV Guide PG) and WKAR-analog comes in crystal clear, so I don't think the problem is on my end. I appreciate your offer to check with TV Guide/National Datacasting on this issue. If they have any suggestions on restoring this service, please let me know.

WKAR-TV and DT both go off the air about midnight every night. So, if the Guide information has to load while the TV set is "off" then, you need to have your set "off" during the day time. WKAR-TV is on Comcast in East Lansing, Meridian Township, and the Lansing metro area overnights as we have a direct fiber optic feed to Comcast. The Guide info is present on the cable system.

WKAR-TV and DT both go off the air about midnight every night. So, if the Guide information has to load while the TV set is "off" then, you need to have your set "off" during the day time. WKAR-TV is on Comcast in East Lansing, Meridian Township, and the Lansing metro area overnights as we have a direct fiber optic feed to Comcast. The Guide info is present on the cable system.

I have no explanation for this, but the TV Guide information is back as of yesterday. BTW, I only use OTA reception using a rooftop antenna and rotor - no cable.

Is it just me or is the lions game NOT in HD like the website says and the guide off my directv says. Channel 53-1. I called them and left a message... I'm kinda dissapointed.

Is it just me or is the lions game NOT in HD like the website says and the guide off my directv says. Channel 53-1. I called them and left a message... I'm kinda dissapointed.

I agree about the Lions/Rams game not being in HD. The resolution didn't look that great, and it wasn't widescreen, two telltale signs that it wasn't HD. ABC's previous NFL broadcast from Seattle, on 53-1, looked incredible. I wonder if the problem with last night's game was due to the network feed or the WLAJ broadcast?

I quickly checked 53-1 last night and saw it wasn't in HD, I switched to 41-1 and watched it in HD. Think it was WLAJ.

I wonder if the problem with last night's game was due to the network feed or the WLAJ broadcast?

WLAJ

[QUOTE=snackmasta]I have no explanation for this, but the TV Guide information is back as of yesterday. BTW, I only use OTA reception using a rooftop antenna and rotor - no cable.[/QUOTE

Glad it's working for you. TVG checked our box and said that all was ok with it.

What was up with WLNS's sound tonight? It was impossible to watch Rock Star INXS because of all the drop outs. I flipped over to WWJ-DT and their sound was fine as was WNEM-DTs from Saginaw, so it had to be local.

One other question about WLNS, when will they get DD 5.1 equipment? I thought most CBS stations were supposed to be up and running with new audio equipment late last spring, did they get left out?

Matt,
I also notice that WLNS has frequent irritating sound drop outs. (I thought it was just me).
I'd love for them to go DD 5.1, don't know when that will happen.

BTW-I received an email from the engineer at WILX. He hopes to be full power by Mid November with a Signal 10 times stronger than the current one........

Also,
What's up with WLAJ......no hi def for a couple of days?

Just tuned in, and the sound was fine. I was going to call the station but at the moment it's fine so I'll wait and see if it's acting up tonight.

Hi all,
I'm new to this so I hope this question isn't too dumb. I have an LG 4200A and live in the north Howell area. The only HD station I seem to get is 53-1. My question is can I punch in say 10-1 for WILX and it will find 57-1 or can I use either 10-1 or 57-1 and get the same results? Does the receiver know to go to the HD UHF number automatically? I plan to get a new roof top atenna soon, but for now it's been frustrating trying to tune in.
Thanks,
Kpute

You need to punch in 57-1 to get the receiver to recognize the "real' frequency the station is on. After that it "knows" to display 10-1 when it's really tuned to 57-1.

You should also punch in 59-1, WLNS puts out such a strong signal you should have no problem getting it too.

Thanks Matt,
I was wondering why I didn't at least get WLNS. Now I'm searching for an easy guide to the DT numbers for Lansing, Flint and Detroit.

I found this site to be very helpful, just plug in your Long. and Lat. ( there is a link if you don't know it...). It will show you distance, and the "Real" channel number.

http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp

BTW, if you do a channel scan it should find a number of channels, did nothing show up?

wow, that's excellent. A little tricky zooming in on my location but thanks for the great link.

I did scan and saw the channels that the atenna was pointed to. But I have only received 53.1, 21.1, 23.1, on good days. Once I even saw a NASCAR race on 47.1 last spring. I need a new atenna.

On the Comcast East Lansing system, WKAR-DT 23.1 (the PBS|HD) channel is remapped to channel 240, if you use the Comast set-top-box.

WILX is on channel 232.

WILX(HD) and WKAR(HD) are both considered "basic" services and are available to anyone who subscribes to the basic cable tier, but you need either a HD digital ready set, or a comcast box (The box which would be at an extra charge)

I've confirmed on one set, the Sharp Aquos that WILX and WKAR are in-the-clear, and can be received by the set with no external decoder.

The Sharp finds WILX on channel 95.1 and WKAR on 95.2.

Does anyone know if these channel numbers are valid for other sets, or are they just a Sharp designation?

Thanks.

Anyone watch Threshold last night and have problems? I recorded it and came in about 30 minutes after it started and found lots of skips, freezes and breakups. WLNS comes in rock solid for me so that wasn't a problem. I was worried that my hd was gong on my HD TiVo but everything else recorded fine. Was it just me?

I've confirmed on one set, the Sharp Aquos that WILX and WKAR are in-the-clear, and can be received by the set with no external decoder.

The Sharp finds WILX on channel 95.1 and WKAR on 95.2.

Does anyone know if these channel numbers are valid for other sets, or are they just a Sharp designation?

Thanks.

No, they are not valid for all sets...

Have comcast cable, tried without cable box using theZenith C32V37 HDTV set
CADTV tuner.

Found WILX-HD=72-2 and WKAR-HD=75-3

WLNS broadcasting anything in high-def these days? Anyone? Football wasn't.. nor was their evening programming

Did WLAJ forget to throw the switch last night or are they having other problems? I know the MNF (Cowboys-Redskins) game was broadcast in HD, but all we got was SD.

no problem here, MNF is HD from WLAJ

any news of WILX, I sent one email to their engineer department, and I was told their new equipment will be put into use in the middle of november. compared with WSYM, WLNS, WLAJ , WILX is still of the lowest transmission power. just hate to change indoor antenna to watch WILX program.

No HD tonight on WILX for "My Name is Earl". I guess somebody forgot to hit the switch.

Why didn't you call them????

I called WILX last night and was told they were having equipment problems. May be a couple days without HDTV.

I live in Okemos, MI (just East of East Lansing) and I have a RadioShack Amplified Digital HDTV Indoor TV Antenna going into a DirecTV HD Receiver. Pointing it in different directions and configuring the antenna components in various ways, I have been able to find the following channels when I do the DirecTV Antenna Setup "Scan for Channels":

6-1 WLNS-DT (CBS)
23-1 WKAR-HD (PBS)
23-2 WKAR-SD (PBS)
47-1 WSYM-HD (FOX)
47-2 WSYM-SD (FOX)

However, I still have had no luck finding these over-the-air channels:

10 WILX (NBC)
14 WB (WB)
53 WLAJ (ABC)

Oddly though, when DirecTV Antenna Setup displays the results of my "Scan for Channels" it will sometimes list 53-1 and 53-2 WLAJ. But then when I go to view the channels that are claimed to be found, 53-1 and 53-2 are not available, but a channel not listed in the scan results (usually 23-1 and 23-2 WKAR) suddenly are.

The instructions that came with my antenna say that for:
VHF TV Channels 2-6, fully extend telescoping elements (two antenna things)
VHF TV Channels 7-13, retract the telescoping elements to half length
UHF TV Channels 14-69, turn and tilt the UHF loop antenna

Does anyone know what the above listed channels are in terms of VHF, UHF, and Channel #? Also has anyone else in the nearby area, with a simliar antenna, had any luck finding those channels that I have not found? Or any other channels I did not mention that I do not know of? Also, should there be a WLNS-HD?

To kemosabi
You should have no problem to receive WLAJ, I use Zenith indoor antenna with silver sensor. I can receive WILX AND WLAJ. because of WILX low transmission power, you need to work a lot to find the good direction and spot.

WLNS-DT is HD, it doesn't come with sub-channel for SD as other stations. when you do scanning, it will show the RF-Channel and Channels.
I remember 6 - 59

I live in Okemos, MI (just East of East Lansing) and I have a RadioShack Amplified Digital HDTV Indoor TV Antenna going into a DirecTV HD Receiver. Pointing it in different directions and configuring the antenna components in various ways, I have been able to find the following channels when I do the DirecTV Antenna Setup "Scan for Channels":

6-1 WLNS-DT (CBS)
23-1 WKAR-HD (PBS)
23-2 WKAR-SD (PBS)
47-1 WSYM-HD (FOX)
47-2 WSYM-SD (FOX)

However, I still have had no luck finding these over-the-air channels:

10 WILX (NBC)
14 WB (WB)
53 WLAJ (ABC)

Oddly though, when DirecTV Antenna Setup displays the results of my "Scan for Channels" it will sometimes list 53-1 and 53-2 WLAJ. But then when I go to view the channels that are claimed to be found, 53-1 and 53-2 are not available, but a channel not listed in the scan results (usually 23-1 and 23-2 WKAR) suddenly are.

The instructions that came with my antenna say that for:
VHF TV Channels 2-6, fully extend telescoping elements (two antenna things)
VHF TV Channels 7-13, retract the telescoping elements to half length
UHF TV Channels 14-69, turn and tilt the UHF loop antenna

Does anyone know what the above listed channels are in terms of VHF, UHF, and Channel #? Also has anyone else in the nearby area, with a simliar antenna, had any luck finding those channels that I have not found? Or any other channels I did not mention that I do not know of? Also, should there be a WLNS-HD?

There is no 14WB in this market. WB is on Comcast cable (WB30) or from out of market stations, you'll need an outdoor antenna to see them.

WLNS is only offering one program stream, it is in HD when CBS programming is in HD. They switch in/out of HD with the network. (So, you already have that)

WILX-DT is relatively low power, they have an upgrade in process. WLAJ-DT though, should be receivable.

WILX-DT is RF channel 57 and WLAJ-DT is RF channel 51.

Both of them would be mostly south-southwest of your location.

Two thoughts.... it may be that WLNS at 1,000,000 watts ERP from Williamston is overpowering the amplifier in your indoor antenna. or....

There is a physical blockage between you and the south, however, WSYM is mostly south of you, but more westerly as they are in Eaton Rapids.

I don't think you'll see WILX-DT with an indoor antenna in Okemos, until after their power upgrade, if then.

Generally, I do not recommend indoor antennas, and beyond that I recommend against powered indoor antennas. (I really hate the flying saucer amplified outdoor antennas)

Go to: http://www.antennaweb.org and check for their outdoor antenna solution.

Good luck, let us know what you find.

I don't think you'll see WILX-DT with an indoor antenna in Okemos, until after their power upgrade, if then.

It all depends on the antenna. I have a Channel Master 4221A (which is admittedly a pretty big "indoor" antenna) sitting on the floor behind a file cabinet (I live in Williamston) and I get all the locals (including WILX-DT) with no problem.

Thank you yoyojade, garybliev, and Chris. You've all been very helpful. I believe the problem most definately lies in my antenna. Because of my location, the indoor antenna I'm using is just not performing very optimally. I'm going to have to get a different antenna. I was thinking of going outdoor, but I live in an apartment, so I can't mount one on the roof. However, I do have a blacony, but that would mean I'd have to do some special wiring to go from outside to inside with the sliding door still being able to close. Should I just get a more powerful indoor antenna? Can I use a powerful outdoor antenna, indoors? Is that what you did, Chris, with your Channel Master 4221A? Is the 4221A an outdoor antenna that you're just using inside, and does it receive the over-the-air HD signals? According to antennaweb I need a "Medium Directional" antenna to receive the local channels. Although, a "Large Directional w/ Pre Amp" antenna would be nice to see those Detroit sports broadcasts that sometimes aren't offered here in the Lansing area. But I imagine that those "Large Directional w/ Pre Amp" antennas get pretty expensive. So, what should I go with, to get just those local stations?

The CM4221A (http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/4221.htm) is an outdoor antenna, but isn't all that big and it's pretty easy to stick it somewhere out of sight. If you want to use an outdoor antenna: 1) get a bow-tie not a yagi, 2) get a UHF only (you don't need VHF and the elements must be much bigger for VHF), and 3) get one that isn't too directional. If I can get all the locals from Williamston, you shouldn't have any problem in Okemos.

It all depends on the antenna. I have a Channel Master 4221A (which is admittedly a pretty big "indoor" antenna) sitting on the floor behind a file cabinet (I live in Williamston) and I get all the locals (including WILX-DT) with no problem.

You will not get the Michigan vs Michigan State game in Hi-Def. Just noticed the "ticker" stating the game is not in Hi-Def. Figures! Not that I could get it though...still waiting for Comcast and the Affiliates to get it together on the Hi-Def signal thing. I am real tired of this Game they are both playing with us in the middle....

Why didn't you call them????
Who should I be calling at the station? I haven't called them before. I've called WSYM before for football. I didn't get anybody that day, but they did call me later. I didn't notice any other non-HD football games last year after that.

I just call the general number or if it's available the News Room after hours and ask them to transfer me to Engineering. I've done this from time to time with WLNS and it usually does the trick.

Hi everyone... I have scanned through and searched this thread as best I can (it's pretty large, you have to admit) and I was hoping I could get some specific advice. I just bought an HDTV, but it doesn't have a built in tuner. In retrospect, that may have not been a great idea, but I generally prefer to subscribe to whatever cable or sattelite provide that is available in the area, so I decided that it would be a better deal for me just to rent the HD box from them until they eventually become the standard and are available at no extra charge (eventually the standard digital box - which they charge you for - will be HD I'm sure).

At the moment I live in an apartment in Grand Ledge. I'm on the 3rd floor (or a three floor building) and have a balcony, BUT it faces to the north east, so I can't get sat. TV (I have Comcast basic TV and internet). I was planning on paying the $5 for an HD box, but according to the Comcast website we only have like 2 HD channels in Grand Ledge (for basic TV, and I'm not to keen to pay for HBO and Showtime).

Is this correct, or am I misreading the charts? Assuming it is correct, i was considering breaking down and buying an OTA HD receiver. The trouble then becomes that since I live in an apartment I can't get a rooftop antenna. I COULD get an outdoor on my balcony, but since it faces NE and it looks like most of the HD broadcasts are coming from the south of Grand Ledge, I'm not sure what good it would do.

Will an indoor antenna let me pick up the major networks in my area? I really can't afford to gamble on it, since I would have to buy an HD tuner and antenna, so if it doesn't work I'b be stuck holding hundreds of dollars of equipment...

Any advice?

Go here first to see exactly how far it is to the stations, what direction they are, and what antenna is recommended: AntennaWeb.org (http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Welcome.aspx)

you most likely will only get a couple channels in that area without going to get the HBO and stuff like that. Though you might want to call up the cable company and ask them about any deals they have going on. I got silver digital+few movie channels for less than expanded basic, so I decided to go for the HD as well. But even then the only local stations I get are PBS and NBC. But that isn't a problem since I do have an OTA reciever.

It would not surprise me if you needed to get a seperate reciever to get all your locals.

Go here first to see exactly how far it is to the stations, what direction they are, and what antenna is recommended: [antenna web link]

I checked that site out before I posted, but it very clearly states on the front page that it does not include indoor antennas. It did show me that MOST of my HD stations are coming from the south about 17-25 miles away, and since my only outdoor outlet is facing the north, I'm not sure how much good it would do me to have one outside.

Any ideas about how to get an idea of signal strength for HD broadcasts in my specific location without buying the receiver?

MrGreen4242,

I live in a house near Potterville. Most of the time I use a outside antenna, but I have used a "Silver Sensor" antenna in the house and have been able to pick up all the Lansing stations, and from G.R./Kalamazoo WOTV (ABC/UPN), WXMI (FOX), and WZPX (PAX/"i"). I have also used "rabbit ears" to pick up WOOD (NBC/UPN on VHF channel 7). With my outside antenna I also get WWMT (CBS, on VHF channel 2) very well, but I don't think I've received that on a inside antenna.

My receiver is the one that Wall Mart sells. I could bring it up to Grand Ledge sometime if you wanted to see how it would work for you.

Good Luck,
Mark

MrGreen4242,

I live in a house near Potterville. Most of the time I use a outside antenna, but I have used a "Silver Sensor" antenna in the house and have been able to pick up all the Lansing stations, and from G.R./Kalamazoo WOTV (ABC/UPN), WXMI (FOX), and WZPX (PAX/"i"). I have also used "rabbit ears" to pick up WOOD (NBC/UPN on VHF channel 7). With my outside antenna I also get WWMT (CBS, on VHF channel 2) very well, but I don't think I've received that on a inside antenna.

My receiver is the one that Wall Mart sells. I could bring it up to Grand Ledge sometime if you wanted to see how it would work for you.

Good Luck,
Mark

Wow, that's a very generous offer, and I might take you up on it sometime! You're might be a little closer to the TX than I am, but I am on the third floor, so I hope that helps my recieption a little. Maybe sometime later in the month you'd have the time to come up my way and try it out? I'm right by the Grand Ledge High School, less than 20 minutes from most parts of Potterville.

Well, I put a bid in on ebay for one of the OTA receivers that Radio Shack is currently selling for $90... none of the stores around here have any left, but if I don't win there are some in stock other parts of the state that I can either get a nearby friend to swing by or just go for a drive...

For under $100 I can afford to try it out, and from what I read on this site the Silver Sensor should get me most of my locals, so we'll see!

Thanks for the offer to help me out, wb8tgy, I still may take you up on it!

Sorry, feeling like I am spamming this thread, but I had another question for you guys... I got a raise this week (w00t go me!) and I was talking to my wife (who I should add is as a big a Red wings fan as anyone) about getting more cable channels. I think we have decided to go for it (would have been no brainer if they had HD feeds of Fox, CBS, ABC, and WB... any word on that, btw? Last post about it was a month ago and no one seemed to know much...) anyways, I think we will be getting Digital Classic and the HD box/package, and here in lies my question...

What sort of connections does the HD tuner from Comcast in Lansing offer? My set has an HDMI and just one component input that is for the DVD player... SO, does the Comcast tuner have HDMI?! Thanks :)

Got a message today on my HD box, Comcast Lansing has added FOXHD YIPEE!! HD Football :)

Now all we need is CBS :)


EDIT: The 6412 box does have HDMI, but Im not using it currently, I guess you would need to use Optical sound to get sound, Im using the component output personally.

Got a message today on my HD box, Comcast Lansing has added FOXHD YIPEE!! HD Football :)

Now all we need is CBS :)


EDIT: The 6412 box does have HDMI, but Im not using it currently, I guess you would need to use Optical sound to get sound, Im using the component output personally.

You keed, right!?!? HD 24 (when it FINALLY starts in January!) :eek: That is GREAT news... I'd like to see CBS and ABC, too, but getting Fox is AWESOME news...

Is the 6412 a PVR or just a regular set top box?

Edit: Also was wondering about the Comcast PVR deal... $10 a month for the PVR, but are all the PVRs HD ready, or do you need to pay another $5 on top of that if you want an HD box? I will be asking Comcast about this of course, but they aren't open at the moment, and I was just curious...

Yea getting Fox is awesome, I wish they had ABC at least so I could watch Lost in HD.......but Ill take Fox :)

Yes the 6412 is a DVR and its $10 for HD and DVR together, this is from my bill:

09/30 - 10/29 Comcast Dvr/hdtv Package 9.95
Includes: Digital Video Recorder Service and One High Definition TV Converter

Yea getting Fox is awesome, I wish they had ABC at least so I could watch Lost in HD.......but Ill take Fox :)

Yes the 6412 is a DVR and its $10 for HD and DVR together, this is from my bill:

09/30 - 10/29 Comcast Dvr/hdtv Package 9.95
Includes: Digital Video Recorder Service and One High Definition TV Converter

So is Fox actually in HD at this point or did you just get a notice that they will be adding it in the future? I ask only because I called up to order the HD "package" (Digital Classic and a DVR) and the guy on the phone seemed to know nothing about Fox being in HD now or if it was going to be in the near future. Doesn't suprise me, CSR monkeys rarely know anything beyond how much something costs (and even that is suspect), but I was just wondering if it was already up and running...

Also, do you know if Comcast will provide an HDMI cable or should I go ahead and order one? Thanks!

[QUOTE=hoogs]Got a message today on my HD box, Comcast Lansing has added FOXHD YIPEE!! HD Football :)

Now all we need is CBS :)

Do you happen to know what channel? Thanks.

[QUOTE=hoogs]Got a message today on my HD box, Comcast Lansing has added FOXHD YIPEE!! HD Football :)

Now all we need is CBS :)

Do you happen to know what channel? Thanks.
"Channel Down" from WKAR-DT or "Channel Up" from WILX-DT.

[QUOTE=hoogs]Got a message today on my HD box, Comcast Lansing has added FOXHD YIPEE!! HD Football :)

Now all we need is CBS :)

Do you happen to know what channel? Thanks.

And ABC. And FoxSports-Detroit. :) I'll be happy with those two, but I wouldn't say no to the WB (I have a guilty Gilmore Girls pleasure :o ).

The message I got said it would be on Sunday the 9th, but it was on Sat. night, so it is up and running. Ch. 234.

The message I got said it would be on Sunday the 9th, but it was on Sat. night, so it is up and running. Ch. 234.

Cool... cable guy is coming Saturday afternoon with my DVR, I'm pretty darn excited! I've been a huge 24 fan since season 1, but I have always watched it on DVD. Being able to get season 5 in HD will probably change that this year!

Same here, I always just waited for the DVD but now that its in HD AND I have a DVR there is no way I will miss it :)

BTW the Baseball playoffs look great on Fox! Thanks Comcrap!

I live in Howell MI. (Livingston County), and am interested in an HD OTA antenna.
Is anyone from the Howell area?
I got a Sony 42" LCD that supposedly has a built in OTA tuner, I'm ready to try it out. I'm looking for advice on what antenna set up to get. I currently use Direct TV SD, and will subscribe to Direct TV HD as soon as there are more channels available, but for now I'll try the OTA thing.
Any advice will be greatly appreciated!
-Shane

Shane -

I'm in Howell as well, how are you doing? I won't be a lot of help regarding the OTA pick-up as my wife wouldn't allow me to put up a big antenna on my roof, but I also have Direct TV (Hi-Def package). I am not sure of you are following the Detroit thread here, but within the next couple of weeks DTV will be rolling out high-def locals to our area. The Detroit DMA (which Howell is part of) is part of DTV's BETA test of their new MPEG4 technology. When they upgrade we will get at least the big 4 (ABC,NBC, CBS, FOX) in HD. You may want to call a local DTV dealer to see what your cost to upgrade to this system would be.

Got a message today on my HD box, Comcast Lansing has added FOXHD YIPEE!! HD Football :)

Now all we need is CBS :)


EDIT: The 6412 box does have HDMI, but Im not using it currently, I guess you would need to use Optical sound to get sound, Im using the component output personally.


No Kidding...I was stunned! I watched the Lions this last weekend....beautiful! I still fell asleep though. Sundays do that to me!

As for the hook ups I use the Optical for sound. Component for Video (I have DVI not HDMI) When I had Greg Loewen calibrate my Sony HS34510 CRT he showed me that the component was a cleaner signal then the DVI. He was even a little surprised. So I run my cable with component over DVI.

Garybliev,
I have read on another thread in this forum that WKAR has opted to go to channel 40 after the analog shut down. Why not just stay on 23?

I live in Fowlerville and receive all Lansing digital stations 100 percent. My antenna kooks thru many trees (leaves). The antenna is a Televes 75, highly directional, so I have an roter plus a pre-amp. The higher the signal is, the better the reception in all kinds of weather. I am about 25-35 miles from the towers in Lansing-Jackson area, I, also, get local Detroit stations from Directv. In a short time (weeks), Directv will offer an upgrade to MPEG4 system to include new dish plus new STB. The install will cost $49. With new system, a person will receive 4 HD stations from Detroit (or more) plus any new national HD channels that come aboard. I can get the Detroit digital stations with my antenna but I get the Lansing stations better. I can also get Flint digital stations. Usually, I point my antenna due west and am able to pick up all digital stations in Lansing area without moving antenna. I feel confident the best UHF antennas that Channel Master and Wingegard would serve a person well in my area. It it always wise to buy more antenna than a person thinks he needs!

Garybliev,
I have read on another thread in this forum that WKAR has opted to go to channel 40 after the analog shut down. Why not just stay on 23?

That was fast, we just made the final (well maybe) decision yesterday. WKAR-DT is on channel 55. The FCC is clearing out channels 52-69 so they can be sold (auctioned) or given to emergency services. Channel 55 has already been sold to Qualcomm for their FLO service.

So, we have no choice but to move. Originally when the process started, we thought we would move back to channel 23. However, the FCC did not protect for that move, and instead gave priority to stations that chose to use their digital assignment as their permanent assignment. WNEM-DT in Saginaw is on channel 22. IF WKAR-DT were to move to channel 23, we would cause interference (contribute additional interference) to 2.7% of the population within WNEM-DTs coverage area.

Likewise, WNEM would cause interference to us. If WNEM were to accept the interference and allow us to use channel 23, we would have been locked into a relatively low power level forever.

The analysis showed these potential channels in the Lansing area:

18
25
36
40
50

But 18 is too close to WXMI-DT 19 in Grand Rapids. Also, we would have to present a legal case to make 18 available in this market, since it is still on the database as being used in University Center.

25 is a good channel, but our $175,000 transmission line installed three years ago is made up of twenty foot segments, which are incompatible with channel 25 due to a build up of reflected power at the bullets every twenty feet. WLNS has the same problem.

36 is good. WNLS just picked that one for their DT.

37 is not available anywhere as it is reserved for radio astronomy.

40 is ok, but not perfect as WXYZ Detroit is on 41. The engineering calculation showed that we would cause less than .1% interference to their population coverage, therefore we think it will be ok.

50 is almost good, but we have to be within 24 km of WLAJ-DT, (or beyond 110km) and we're not.

We picked 25 as an alternate, and we really hope we don't have to try to use it.

WCMU in Mt. Pleasant picked 26 with 24 as an alternate.

We won't know for three or four months if our filing for channel 40 is acceptable to the FCC.

I don't know what WXYZ is picking, I hope it isn't 40.

Gary,
Thanks for some excellent information!
I think that WXYZ wants to stay with 41.
I'm assuming, since 36 is available, that WJRT will get 12.
I'm surprised that WILX is going with 10 instead of getting into the second round.
It would at least let those of us with UHF only antennas enjoy good reception of all network affils after the analog shutdown.
One other note: I know that WDCQ PBS from University Center is on 15, and the soon to be lit up WSMH will be on 16. This would seem to present some interference problems for the Flint-Saginaw area. I doubt that I will receive 15 after WSMH is up since the tower are in the same direction for me.

Gary,
Thanks for some excellent information!
I think that WXYZ wants to stay with 41.
I'm assuming, since 36 is available, that WJRT will get 12.
I'm surprised that WILX is going with 10 instead of getting into the second round.
It would at least let those of us with UHF only antennas enjoy good reception of all network affils after the analog shutdown.
One other note: I know that WDCQ PBS from University Center is on 15, and the soon to be lit up WSMH will be on 16. This would seem to present some interference problems for the Flint-Saginaw area. I doubt that I will receive 15 after WSMH is up since the tower are in the same direction for me.

Oops, said the wrong thing, the station seeking a channel in Detroit is WJBK not WXYZ.

If WSMH and WDCQ are within 24 km, and at about the same power levels, it should work. (well, that what the FCC thinks)

Gary, why is adjacent channels an issue? In Detroit WXYZ is DT 41, WTVS is DT 43, WWJ is DT 44, and WDIV is DT 45. All are live now and there does not seem to be a problem. Is the issue that they will be at higher power? I think most, if not all of them are at full power.

Gary, why is adjacent channels an issue? In Detroit WXYZ is DT 41, WTVS is DT 43, WWJ is DT 44, and WDIV is DT 45. All are live now and there does not seem to be a problem. Is the issue that they will be at higher power? I think most, if not all of them are at full power.

You know, this really is bizarre. If transmitters are within 24 km, they can be considered co-located. In this situation, it is assumed that antennas aimed at one station, are aimed at all of them. (well, that is the assumption, and you know what assumption means)

In Detroit, 41, 43, 44, and 45 are all pretty close to each other physically. Downside is if the power levels are vastly different, if one of them we 50kw and another 1,000kw, there would be a 13dB difference in power level, which would mean that the higher powered station would be easily receivable, and the lower powered station would be invisible. Which means that the power levels need to be within 13dB.

Beyond the 24km, the DTV planning factors kick in, which assume, among other things, that the receive antenna is directional, that the antenna is aimed at the desired station, and that the undesired station is on the backside of the antenna. The front/back ratio, along with other items creates a -26dB Desired/Undesired ratio. Which means that the undesired station can be 26dB greater in strength than the undesired station and you'll be able to receive the Desired station. The distance spacing requirement in the rules takes this into account, by requiring the additional spacing.

Adawg88,
Thanks for the heads up, I'm going to check it out, sounds alot easier...besides, wy wife dosent sound very excited about an antenna eithor! She just dosent understand! LOL.
-Shane

Adawg88,
Thanks for the heads up, I'm going to check it out, sounds alot easier...besides, wy wife dosent sound very excited about an antenna eithor! She just dosent understand! LOL.
-Shane

I just called and set-up my install for the new HD locals (which requires they swap out my existing dish and receiver). Since I already had HD service it is free, so I am not sure what your cost may be, but give it a look. I heard Best Buy and ABC warehouse have a deal going where it is $250 w/ a $200 rebate ($50 final cost) for the set-up. I was told today I will get the Detroit NBC, ABC, CBS and FOX stations. I hope WB comes soon too, as the Pistons are in HD this year...

Our cable company, Millennium Digital Cable (Motto: We're expensive, but we're your only choice!) has finally decided to provide some HD content. So far, they aren't carrying any of the majors in HD. On my box I get ESPN, DISC, and STARZ in HD.

MY RANT:

It amazes me that the local networks (excluding WKAR) are still unable to throw the switch from SD to HD at the correct time and on a consistent basis. I truly believe most of them must have a $5/hr part-time teenaged employee in charge of this. WILX is probably the worst. I find it hard to believe that this procedure can't be easily automated.

I agree with you Chris. But the one that irritates me the most is WLAJ-ABC. They don't even have someone to answer the phone in the evening hours so you can remind them to "Throw the switch."

....so need a little very basic information or to be directed to some other information that will help me.

I want to manually enter a channel on my HD receiver. How do I know what to enter? Is there a listing somewhere of this?


Thanks

wd:....Fox, 47-1 is between lansing and Jackson, I believe. From Mason, point your antenna somewhat southwest and let your receiver do its' job of entering it. Another station is in same direction (NBC, I think) where the others are pretty well north of Mason.

Adawg88: From BB or CC the cost of the new H-20 is $200 and you get a rebate of $200 from Directv after your new H-20 is activated. The dish is ordered thru Directv and sent to an installer; cost for this is $49. Bottom line the new MPEG4 package costs $49 installed.

Ed, here are the listings for station, channel (C), and frequency (F). Most HD tuner cards use frequency to designate the stations.

ABC (WLAJ-HD, WLAJ-SD); C 53.1 and 53.2, F 51.1 and 51.2
CBS (WLNS): C 6.1, F 59.1
FOX (WSYM-HD, WSYM-SD): C 47.1 and 47.2, F 38.1 and 38.2
NBC (WILX): C 10.1, F 57.1
PAX (WPXD): C 31.1, F 31.1
PBS (WKAR-HD, WKAR-SD): C 23.1 and 23.2, F 55.1 and 55.2)
UPN (WHTV): C 34.1, F 34.1

You can get a listing of channels and frequencies for these and all other area stations by visiting antennaweb.org (http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Welcome.aspx).

I have one correction from Chris's list. At least on my receiver WPXD-DT (PAX/"i", from Ann Arbor) gets listed at channel's 31.1, 30.2, 30.3, and 30.4. Seems odd they didn't stick with the same base number.

I have not seen WHTV-DT on the air, but I can see UPN in SD from WOTV-DT (digital channel 20, on 41.2) and WOOD-DT (digital channel 7, on 8.2) out of Grand Rapids.

I had a rock solid signal during the world series from 47.1 but I couldn't watch the end of the Lions game today in HD...signal kept dropping off to 0. Is it just me or was anyone else having this problem today? I moved my antenna a few times....wonder if the traffic in and out of the Mason airport has something to do with this since I am about a mile or so north of the runway and most approaches come from the west to the east and my antenna points in that direction for 47.1

Any suggestions?

I had a rock solid signal during the world series from 47.1 but I couldn't watch the end of the Lions game today in HD...signal kept dropping off to 0. Is it just me or was anyone else having this problem today? I moved my antenna a few times....wonder if the traffic in and out of the Mason airport has something to do with this since I am about a mile or so north of the runway and most approaches come from the west to the east and my antenna points in that direction for 47.1

Any suggestions?

No problems receiving the signal in Morrice (30mi East). Watched the whole game with no breakups noticed. Very disappointing ending anyhow, Lions just always seem to blow the ending.

Once again tonite (Sunday), CBS, Lansing is not in HD. They say CBS is not sending 'Cold Case' in HD to them. This is hard to believe; just wonder why Channel 59 digital has so many problems. Many times their audio does not come thru true.

WSYM is the weakest signal for me by far. They are much weaker than WLAJ even though they are the same distance (approx. 24 miles) and have the same power (approx. 1000 kw).

Chris White: I am in Fowlerville and receive all Lansing digital stations just fine. It is best to have a very good directional antenna and aim that antenna (with roter) directly at the transmitting tower. A pre amp can not hurt but may not be needed. Best to try first without a preamp. With a very good UHF antenna (Wingard, Channel Master, Televes) it is possible to pick up Lansing stations from up to 40 miles. Of course, a good line of sight helps greatly.

Just to be clear, I am able to receive all the area stations just fine. I use a Channel Master 3023 and a Channel Master preamp and get a 26-32 db signal from all stations except WSYM. I wonder if they are temporarily operating at a lower power because I used to get the same signal from them as I did everyone else.

Chris White: I hardly ever check the signal strength as long as I am still receiving a given station ok. You could be correct; should give the station a call and ask.

Once again tonite (Sunday), CBS, Lansing is not in HD. They say CBS is not sending 'Cold Case' in HD to them. This is hard to believe; just wonder why Channel 59 digital has so many problems. Many times their audio does not come thru true.

DRDON over in the Detroit thread explained this. He indicated that CBS feeds their HD Sunday night programming out Sunday morning, WWJ can record it and pass the HD feed properly Sunday night whereas WLNS does not have this capability. So whom ever you talked to a WLNS only gave you half the story or was uninformed.

WLNS is in serious need of an HD upgrade -audio and video. I enjoyed having them among the first HD stations but now we are all suffering a bit because of this. I guess it's a trade off.

Matt L. I shall monitor this in future but, thinking back, it seems, at times, we do get HD on Channel 59 (CBS), Lansing and when there is a late football game and the programming is pushed back. Many times, at Channel 59, someone just does not throw the HD switch. I have called and 2 minutes later..HD..amazing. At times, lately, there has been a lip sync problem and cracking sound on the audio. Also, they generally cut the last few seconds off of a network program in HD..cutting back to non-HD..to 'get ready for their newscast'. BeginningWednesday, with install of MPEG4 system (new tuner and dish) I will have ability to get Detroit networks so may change to 62, CBS, in Detroit.

Matt L. By the way, do you receive the 4 major networks in HD in Flint/Saginaw? Does your local CBS station carry programming on Sunday nights in HD? I do know channel 12, ABC, has a very strong signal. I am in the center of 3 markets where I live. ..Lansing, Flint, and Detroit.

Richard,
The only networks that are in HD in Flint/Saginaw are ABC (WJRT) and NBC (WEYI).
The CBS (WNEM) is only at 480i in digital. The Fox (WSMH) doesn't even have a digital signal up yet. There is some information that both stations will be in Hi Def by 1st quarter 2006.

Richard, I do not watch ANY Flint stations, only ones I have any regard for is WEYI and WFUM - at least they try. WNEM CBS publicly stated this dislike for HD, now they are backtracking and may go HD this fall, they lost me as a viewer years ago. WJRT ABC feels an overwhelming need to dictate how I watch TV by stretching ALL non-HD content to fill the screen- I'm fully capable of pushing a button on my remote if I feel the need to watch short fat people, plus they run 2 or 3 sub channels per ABC's O&O orders. FOX is a joke, they are working their way through the excuse playbook, every other station in the market can get a signal up and running but them, again another one I will never tune in when they finally go live.

I've stated before if Lansing had an OTA HD WB outlet I'd leave my antenna pointed toward Lansing and be happy. I'll be curios to see what the new WB station in Saginaw does when they go live, SD or HD.

I've stated before if Lansing had an OTA HD WB outlet I'd leave my antenna pointed toward Lansing and be happy. I'll be curios to see what the new WB station in Saginaw does when they go live, SD or HD.


First I've heard of a WB station in Saginaw. NBC 25 airs WB on a subchannel in SD, are they planning on a second transmitter/channel? That would be great with the Pistons in HD. I can't quite get their signal out of Detroit. NBC25 airs the pistons on their subchannel, but only in SD.

First I've heard of a WB station in Saginaw. NBC 25 airs WB on a subchannel in SD, are they planning on a second transmitter/channel? That would be great with the Pistons in HD. I can't quite get their signal out of Detroit. NBC25 airs the pistons on their subchannel, but only in SD.

The construction permit has been issued for ANALOG television to Barryton Michigan Corporation (from Barryton Michigan LLC, from Acme Broadcasting). Call letters assigned are WBSF, channel assigned is 46, with 1,600kW ERP from a tower north east of Saginaw, Michigan.

Antenna proposed is directional, Lansing is outside of the Grade-B 64dBu predicted coverage contour.

There is NO digital channel assignment paired with that analog channel. The construction permit expires 10/1/2007. WBSF will have to partipate in the FCC's round three to select a digital channel assignment.

Speaking of channel assignments, WJBK in Detroit picked 7 as their DT channel after the transition. I guess they aren't worried about co-channel interference from or to WOOD-DT on 7 in Grand Rapids.

Gary,
Why in the world would the FCC issue a CP for an ANALOG station???????

twaller & Gary,

A better question I would think is why would a company want to waste the money on building a high power analog station that will only be on the air a little more than one year?


Gary, a question I have for you, can WKAR and WLNS retune their current digital transmitters to the channels that they have picked to move to, or will they have to buy new transmitters? Related to that I would guess that they will both have to buy new antennas also.

I did read yesterday on the net that WCMU near Mt. Pleasant and the rest of the CMU digital network is now up and running. I did a channel scan from my place and I can't see them. My scan also showed that channel 31 from Ann Arbor has fixed their digital numbers so they show up as 31-1, 31-2.....

Gary,
Why in the world would the FCC issue a CP for an ANALOG station???????

I guess because the application was submitted in time to make a deadline.

Wow, that is incredibly stupid. I'm glad I'm not a stockholder of that company...

If I was in charge I'd put up a low power analog and move directly to digital for the main setup. Oh, well....

twaller & Gary,

A better question I would think is why would a company want to waste the money on building a high power analog station that will only be on the air a little more than one year?


Gary, a question I have for you, can WKAR and WLNS retune their current digital transmitters to the channels that they have picked to move to, or will they have to buy new transmitters? Related to that I would guess that they will both have to buy new antennas also.

I did read yesterday on the net that WCMU near Mt. Pleasant and the rest of the CMU digital network is now up and running. I did a channel scan from my place and I can't see them. My scan also showed that channel 31 from Ann Arbor has fixed their digital numbers so they show up as 31-1, 31-2.....

--------------

The WBSF construction permit expires 10/1/2007, they can come on the air whenever they are ready before then. The date for elimination of analog currently being discussed in congress is 4/7/2009. (which may change) Perhaps WBSF does not believe that date will hold?

---------------

WKAR has two transmitters in the UHF band. The older transmitter is our two tube transmitter (Inductive Output Tube). This transmitter produces about 70kW of peak power for analog which works out to 1,230kW of ERP peak power when you include antenna gain.

Our newer transmitter is solid state (lots of transitors) which can produce about 3kW of _average_ power for digital, which works out to about 55kW of ERP average power.

Both can be converted to channel 40 by throwing money at them. Assuming that indeed we are assigned channel 40, we'll be assigned an initial power level on the order of 50kW, so, we'll order the modifications necessary for the solid state transmitter (frequency dependent cables, channel filters, harmonic filter, and a mask filter) Our main antenna can be re-tuned to operate on 40. Our standby antennas can not.

After the conversion period, we expect (hope?) that the FCC will open a window to allow us to apply for an increase in power. If the -temporary- interference criteria (.1%) that is in effect now remain in effect, we could ask for perhaps 150kW ERP.

If the interference criteria revert to the older standard (2%) there is a good chance that we could ask for 500kW ERP. A power level that we could accommodate with a two IOT transmitter.

I don't have cost estimates yets, we're working with vendors now, and obviously we can't fund transmitter upgrades for power levels we can't use.

You'll have to ask WLNS about their conversion options, I could make guesses, they would be good guesses, but that's not fair to them or to you.

-----------------------------

I could ask why would you want to watch any other public television station besides WKAR, but I won't.

WCMU's channel 56 digital transmitter is near Barrington, map of coverage is at:
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT1084697.html

Lansing is beyond the 41dBu predicted service contour.

Thanks Gary for the info. Glad to hear WKAR will be able to convert their transmitters and use the new antenna. I hope when this is all done the local stations can at least cover the areas that they used to with their analog stations, and that WHTV-DT will have a good signal here. WHTV analog is watchable here, but far from snow free. WLAJ has never looked real good here either but their DT signal is good.

WKAR is the only public television station I get, but I"m always looking for another station to add to the list I can get.

I realize this is off topic a bit but wanted to get some local advise. I am looking for a switch to connect 2 different component systems, including the standard red and white audio and the yellow, blue and red video, to one hdtv.

Any suggestions, especially for a local source? I don't want to spend a lot and I don't care if it has a remote control...just want to be able to feed the two different YPbPr and their audio cables into a switch with one output to the t.v.

If no local source is available, what on-line source would you suggest?

TIA

Being near Fowlerville, I pick up 3 markets..Lansing, Flint/Saginaw, and Detroit with OTA. I usually watch Lansing. Being in the Detroit zone, I have taken advantage of the completely free offer from Directv. I have 2 new Dirrectv receivers (H-20). I have not installed the new5-LNB dish as yet altho the installer was here. At this point in time I would gain nothing from doing so. Maybe, sometime in 06, Directv will present more national channels over the new MPEG4 system.

ed48854: Just go to Google and type in 'video switcher' and you will get many places to purchase. Do this on anything you want to buy.

ed48854, I think I have seen switch boxes at Wal-Mart that can do that.

ed48854, I think I have seen switch boxes at Wal-Mart that can do that.

Caution - Most inexpensive switchers (like what you find at Wal-Mart) don't have sufficient bandwidth for hdtv.

Here's an AA1154 (http://hometheatertalk.com/httalk/viewtopic.php?t=15041) for a very reasonable price.

Anyone else not get Monday Night Football in High Definition last night?

I tried calling WLAJ but of course no one answered the phone. I left a message but...you know the rest of the story.

Why is it so hard to keep the HD feed up and running?!!

What I do not understand is the program that was on right before the game was in high definition; why did it change when the game was televised?

I have had problems with CBS and Fox but when you call they fix the problem!

WKAR HD is rock steady!

WLAJ did nothing. No information at all, no game in HD. Thanks WLAJ.

I am seriously considering buying a longer range antenna and rotor and get my ABC feed from Flint!

-Bill M.

William: Digital stations that do not 'throw the switch' upset me. Last nite, I got the fotoball game from ABC 12 in Flint and it came in very well without even moving my antenna. I had my antenna pointed west from Fowlerville area. Do call ABC in Lansing; do not let them get away with things like this easily. They may not even have a HD display at that studio but this is no excuse for not showing a program in HD. It is just being careless./lazy and not caring. You look on their web site and can not even see a telephone number to call. Their web site is a mess; filled with ads!

Anyone else not get Monday Night Football in High Definition last night?

I tried calling WLAJ but of course no one answered the phone. I left a message but...you know the rest of the story.

Why is it so hard to keep the HD feed up and running?!!

What I do not understand is the program that was on right before the game was in high definition; why did it change when the game was televised?

I have had problems with CBS and Fox but when you call they fix the problem!

WKAR HD is rock steady!

WLAJ did nothing. No information at all, no game in HD. Thanks WLAJ.

I am seriously considering buying a longer range antenna and rotor and get my ABC feed from Flint!

-Bill M.

Monday Night Football on Channel 12 was in HD last night. it seems Channel 12 of more transmission power. even in Lansing, There is no problem for me to get Channel 12.

Channel 12? Is that on your cable box?

I had to watch it on 12-1 out of Flint.. WJRT I think. MNF on WLAJ was definitely NOT in HD last night.

Chris White: Channel 12-1 is a digital station out of Flint. It is WJRT, ABC, and it has lots of power. It can be received via UHF antenna up to distances of 50 miles.

ABC 12 is on digital 36 OTA with strong reception even in Lansing.

As for WLAJ's web site, lets remember that the entire purpose of their company is advertisments. It is no surprise to me that most of their site is comprised of ads. Unless you want to buy ad space they may not be too interested in speaking with you directly.

From now on, I am watching WJRT, ABC in Flint. Seems a better tv station to me and has very good news people.

Tonite, Tuesday, NBC digital, Lansing was not in HD for Law and Order. I called them; they said they would throw the switch. Of course, no one followed thru. Except for Fox, I am getting tired of the digital tv stations in Lansing. It goes without saying channel 23-1 (PBS) is a fine digital/HD station with many good programs.

WLAJ is owned by Freedom Communications. They have partially shut down the Lansing operation and now remotely switch the station from the WWMT master control. Here is the contact page from the WWMT website.

http://www.wwmt.com/contact_us_email.shtml

Tonite, Tuesday, NBC digital, Lansing was not in HD for Law and Order. I called them; they said they would throw the switch. Of course, no one followed thru. Except for Fox, I am getting tired of the digital tv stations in Lansing. It goes without saying channel 23-1 (PBS) is a fine digital/HD station with many good programs.

I was also watching WILX last night. My Name Is Earl and The Office are normally HD programs, but no HD last night. I attributed it to the weather warnings and the electrion result crawls last night. I've noticed on many stations that the HD is turned off when these "overlays" (not sure of the industry term) are part of the broadcast.

thelaker: This may be true last evening but, the digital stations in Lansing (except Fox and PBS) do it on a regular basis...showing some HD programs (from networks) in digital only. Other markets do not do this.

I watch WJRT, but on my Windows Media Center, there is no program guide for WJRT, as it is not in the Local Channel List, I can only set record manually. That's the only reason that keeps me to watch WLAJ. WJRT is more stable and more powerful than WLAJ.

With outdoor antenna, the signal of WILX is not strong. any clue when they will increase their transmission power? last time, they told me that it will be in effect in the middle of November.

BTW, When will we have WB and UPN HD in Lansing? Is it Possible?

I watch WJRT, but on my Windows Media Center, there is no program guide for WJRT, as it is not in the Local Channel List,

I have to admit not knowing the Windows Media Center. Where does the "program guide" and the "local channel list" come from, and why can't you add to it?

I can only set record manually. That's the only reason that keeps me to watch WLAJ. WJRT is more stable and more powerful than WLAJ.

Pretty much it seems to me that any ABC program that is on WLAJ would be on WJRT at the same time. The differences would be on syndicated programming, weekend football games, Oprah...


BTW, When will we have WB and UPN HD in Lansing? Is it Possible?

Not holding breath are you? There are zero WB o-t-a stations in Lansing, the closest we have are the one day delay on WZPX (Battle Creek), WEYI-DT second channel (Flint) and the Comcast distributed WB30. I guess the earliest we'd see WB in HD would be if Comcast were to cut a deal with theWB.

As to UPN, that's even worse. WHTV's digital transmitter is only 4kw in Jackson and uses the off-air pickup of their analog station. Amazingly, that 4kw is what they were licensed at.

WHTV has an application for more power at the WLAJ site in Leslie, but that's in a black hole waiting on FCC and Canadian approvals.

gary: Your digital station, WKAR-dt, continues to be a pleasure to view. Some great programming. One thing I wanted to ask. When I scan for Lansing stations, I always get 23-1 and 23-1 (twice). And this on 3 different receivers. Weird. Yes?

gary: Your digital station, WKAR-dt, continues to be a pleasure to view. Some great programming. One thing I wanted to ask. When I scan for Lansing stations, I always get 23-1 and 23-1 (twice). And this on 3 different receivers. Weird. Yes?

Beats me, I'll check. you should see 23-1 and 23-2. -2 is a simulcast of the analog WKAR-TV channel 23 programs. ARe you getting two different programs, or the same thing on both channels.

(well, usually they are different, they are the same when PBS is feeding a national "core" program simultaneous with the premier on the HD channel. Live from Lincoln Center last night is one example)

gary: I just checked. I get (on new H-20, same as on Zenith HD520) 23-1, a cooking show, 23-1, a cooking show, 23-2, nightly business report. 23-1 and 23-1 are in HD and 23-2 in digital. This is the way the stations were scanned into menu. Strange, huh?

I had/have the same problem on WKAR with my HD TiVo, two 23-1s. The guide info on one of them is wrong, don't recall what was showing up. I have a season pass for Soundstage, and I saw my recorder come on and it was recording Soundstage but the program description was for some other show. Somehow TiVo knew that Soundstage was on even though the description on one of the 23-1's was wrong. I eliminated the problem by unchecking the wrong 23-1...

gary: I just checked. I get (on new H-20, same as on Zenith HD520) 23-1, a cooking show, 23-1, a cooking show, 23-2, nightly business report. 23-1 and 23-1 are in HD and 23-2 in digital. This is the way the stations were scanned into menu. Strange, huh?

Wierd. You could rescan I suppose, but then you'd probably have three 23-1 and two 23-2. Can you clear the stations out, then do a rescan?

gary: Not to worry. It is no bother to me. I just tune to one of the 2 ..23-1..I have rescanned several times. All 3 receivers same result. If you have a receiver at home, scan it and see what happens. Just a very strange happening but no real bother.

I have had the same sort of problem with my DirecTivo for over a year now. None of my OTA guide info is correct for WKAR. If I really want to watch something-then i have to record it off of the down-rezzed channel on the satellite dish. Wish I knew what was causing it.

dfree617: The guide info should be correct on one of the WKAR-dt23-1 'stations. 'And it always stays constant.

I have had the same sort of problem with my DirecTivo for over a year now. None of my OTA guide info is correct for WKAR. If I really want to watch something-then i have to record it off of the down-rezzed channel on the satellite dish. Wish I knew what was causing it.


Just go into "Channels you receive" and deselect one of the 23-1s, and check guide info, if it's still wrong, select the other. One will be correct.

I don't seem to be getting a signal....is it me or is it something outside my system? I have been messing with a couple of different antennae and have had a few connector/coax problems which I am sorting out so maybe the problem is within my system, but thought I would ask anyway!

MMatt: ..The info is correct for 23-1. On the second 23-1 (actual same program as first 23-1) the iformation is for the analog station.

ed:..as far as i know, this is 18 Nov and WKARdt, 23-1, is coming in fine. In fact, the station is very reliable.

must be I have an internal problem then!

Hey, what happened tonight? WLNS ran Cold Case and the Movie in HD after a late football game. From what I read and posted here they weren't able to do that. Anyone know if WLNS upgraded equipment or did CBS run the HD feed tonight?

MattL: Perhaps, someone was not asleep at channel 6 Sunday!

i HAVE TWO HD SETS. TWO YEAR OLD MITS AND A NEW 34XS SONY. On the sony set I can not get channel 53.1 lansing wlaj yet it has a signal of 92. channel 53.2 in sd comes in fine. 53.1 comes in fine on the mits 55" any help would be appreciated


thank you



John

thanks for the feed back. I have a channel master 4228 and a pre amp and amp and can get any channels in approximately 60 mile radius. antenna is not the problem- I wonder if sony does not support wlaj 53.1

Is WLAJ in lansing Broadcasting in HD now?

IS WLAJ LANSING BROADCASTING IN HD NOW I HAVE LOST THE HD SIGNAL BUT I AM GETTING THE SD SIGNAL ?



jOHN

It appears that WLAJ 53-1 is currenlty offline. It shows a signal, but there is no program info being broadcasted. Perhaps an encoder problem at the station. Seems to happen frequently to them.

After two years of messing around with both indoor and outdoor antennas, out of the blue over Thanksgiving weekend I now receive WILX with my indoor Silver Sensor at 75% signal strength. Previously the best I could receive was about 15% so I never got a picture. I assume WILX has boosted their signal. Can anyone confirm?

I notice that WILX is coming in great now also. I knew they had plans of increasing their signal. I'm also assuming it has been done.

Hello all,

Great informative forum. I have a question I hope you could help me with, since everyone I ask at the stores gives me a different answer.

I recently purchased an LCD HD ready TV. I am considering switching from Comcast to DishNetwork or DTV with HDTV programming and would like to get the locals in HDTV. It appears from what I've been told and what I read here that the only way to get locals in HDTV is with an OTA antenna, right? Comcast, DV, and DTV cannot provide them?

Okay, so what is the best way to set up an OTA antenna along with either DN or DTV? I believe I can hook the antenna up to the DN or DTV HDTV receiver and thus would not need a second receiver, is that right? Do those clip on antennas that clip onto a dish work?

Is it really worth the trouble? It appears from this tread that there is not enough "reliable" HD content over the locals in the area. Maybe DN or DTV will get the locals in HDTV soon??

Thanks for any help.

I able to get WILX from MSU now too. The only thing I noticed is that there's a kind of clicking sound on their hd feed. Anyone else notice this?

Hello all,



Is it really worth the trouble? It appears from this tread that there is not enough "reliable" HD content over the locals in the area. Maybe DN or DTV will get the locals in HDTV soon??



What do you consider "reliable"? If it wasn't for the few shows I watch on WB I'd leave my antenna pointed at Lansing most of the time. WILX NBC does do DD 5.1 which many other NBC stations in the area don't with few problems, WLNS CBS is fine, they have had a few problems as of late, but they have been a powerhouse of signal for years, long before many other stations. The FOX outlet is fine too, WKAR PBS puts out a beautiful signal with little or no problems -- so far everyone's "reliable" in my book. I'm leaving out the ABC station because I rarely watch it, to be honest they have had their share of problems, but they are really the only one.

I get HD from 3 markets and I have to say Lansing has a very strong lineup of quality HD. It is worth getting a box to receive them, that will have to be your call.

Hello all,

Great informative forum. I have a question I hope you could help me with, since everyone I ask at the stores gives me a different answer.{/quote}

That's ok, we will too.

[quote]

I recently purchased an LCD HD ready TV. I am considering switching from Comcast to DishNetwork or DTV with HDTV programming and would like to get the locals in HDTV. It appears from what I've been told and what I read here that the only way to get locals in HDTV is with an OTA antenna, right? Comcast, DV, and DTV cannot provide them?

Comcast does have some local stations on their sytems. WKAR, WILX, and I've heard WSYM are on the system.



Okay, so what is the best way to set up an OTA antenna along with either DN or DTV? I believe I can hook the antenna up to the DN or DTV HDTV receiver and thus would not need a second receiver, is that right? Do those clip on antennas that clip onto a dish work?



You said your LCD was "HD ready" which implies that it does not have built in tuners. Therefore you'll need an external receiver.

1. Comcast has a Motorola DVR available for a fee.
2. ATSC tuners are available from the usual suspects, including WallMart.
3. ATSC tuners are built into SOME satellite receivers from both Dish and DirecTV.

I don't know if the clip on antenna will work, depends on where you live to some extent. I do have a bias against the flying-saucer style omnidirectional antenna as they have built in pre-amplifiers which tend to get overdriven rather easily.

http://www.antennaweb.org is a good site to determine the size of antenna you'll need. They assume that everyone needs an outdoor antenna.


Is it really worth the trouble? It appears from this tread that there is not enough "reliable" HD content over the locals in the area. Maybe DN or DTV will get the locals in HDTV soon??



Worth the trouble is in the eye of the beholder. Sports, especially football looks GREAT in HD. Not sports, WKAR is offering a separate HD service* from the analog service.

DirecTV seems to be leading Dish Network in the roll out of local-into-local for satellite customers, even there it is going to be slow. DirecTV will be using MPEG-4 encoding, which means that they are obsoleting all of their existing HD tuners and they have to launch additional satellites to get the necessary number of spotbeams. Detroit went on line last October.

The 11/23/05 issue of <i>TV Technology</i> reports that "The new LG box (model 120) also will will have the ability to process MPEG-2, which is how DirecTV's national HD and SD programming is currently delivered. The box also has a built-in ATSC tuner for terrestrial reception since DirecTV will not carry all DTV stations in any market, at least to begin with. Eventually, all DirecTV subscribers will be converted to MPEG-4, althoug the conversion will not be completed until mid-2007."

This article isn't posted yet on the web site, but probably will be shortly http://www.tvtechnology.com/


*fine print: the WKAR-DT 23.1 service is usually the PBS|HD channel. Not all of the programs on the PBS|HD channel are high definition, indeed most programs are standard definition wide screen productions that have been upconverted. The presence or absence of the PBS|HD logo is NOT an indication that the program is in high definition. (Still, they do look pretty good)

Thanks for the replies. I checked that antenna site and they say a small multidirectional is what I need. Someone suggested a Zenith Silver Sensor indoor antenna, which I believe would be easy to hook up.

So, do all the locals around here offer much HD content? I thought Comcast offered all the locals in HD, but nope, just CBS and PBS (I think).

do all the locals around here offer much HD content?

If you mean local cable providers, I don't know. If you mean local over-the-air content, then you can get nearly all of the regular prime time shows in HD (for free).

Try this guide...make sure you select Digital Broadcast from the drop down menu and check HD box: http://ww2.titantv.com/quickguide/quickguide.aspx

Good info here. Thanks to those who contribute. A person, with a good UHF antenna (Televes, Winegard, Channel Master, can receive the local Lansing stations up to 40 miles from transmitters. You do need a roter at that distance. I live in Fowlerville area and receive Detroit, Flint, and Lansing locals, digital/HD, via outdoor UHF antenna. I have made the changeover to the H-20 MPEG2-MPEG4 receiver. By the way, the new H20 is 'fair to good' on programming, etc. and excellent on audio and video. The changeover (H20 and new dish) is completely free with no trades if a person is in Livingston county and east toward Detroit. If a person is wondering about going ditital/HD, DO IT if you have the needed money. It is well worth it. Any questions you may have about HD content in the Lansing area, just ask.

Thanks for the replies. I checked that antenna site and they say a small multidirectional is what I need. Someone suggested a Zenith Silver Sensor indoor antenna, which I believe would be easy to hook up.

So, do all the locals around here offer much HD content? I thought Comcast offered all the locals in HD, but nope, just CBS and PBS (I think).
I also live in the DeWitt area and receive all the local networks with a simple double bowtie antenna from Radio Shack in my attic. Cost was about $15. Comcast offers NBC, PBS and FOX in the DeWitt area.

See my post a couple of posts above this one for a good online t.v. guide which shows HD programming!

I also live in the DeWitt area and receive all the local networks with a simple double bowtie antenna from Radio Shack in my attic. Cost was about $15. Comcast offers NBC, PBS and FOX in the DeWitt area.


Thanks :)

I just got Comcast digital and HD this weekend. They do have NBC, Fox, PBS although there is very little HD that I saw on NBC or Fox. PBS is pretty darn nice though. However, I am thinking of switching to Dish Network so I can get all the locals in HD with an indoor antenna and try the Voom networks. I don't believe I can get use an indoor antenna with the Comcast box.

You are correct - with Comcast, you would need a separate OTA tuner to pickup ABC and CBS. You can pick up an tuner for $100 or less.

Location: Corner of ElmWood and Michigan Ave (Lansing)

Anyone around that area getting anymore than NBC, ABC, PAX in HD? All I can get with 3 different indoor antennas purchased at BB. Tried a nonpowered HDTV antenna, and 2 powered Antennas. Any suggestions on what I can do to get FOX and CBS in HD seeing how thats where all my football games are played on! An outdoor antenna is not an option because I live in a townhouse that does not allow that per lease agreement.

Also along with my last reply. Anyone have a list of the actual channels?

IE:
ABC- 53.1
FOX- 47.1
NBC- 10.1 10.2
I/PAX- 43.3

I looked on antennaweb, but it doesnt list some of those discussed by channel name on this post like channel WSYM-DT 38 FOX Lansing discussed on very first post. Please let me know :] as I would like to find this out and see what I can do to print it for reference as well as what I can do to pickup those channels as I did a scan and only pickup 4 channels in HD.

pcaveney,

The Lansing stations are on the following channels:

WLNS CBS is on channel 59
WILX NBC is on channel 57
WKAR PBS is on channel 55
WLAJ ABC is on channel 51
WSYM FOX is on channel 38
WXPX PAX/i is on channel 44

Using a "Silver Sensor" indoor UHF antenna I can pick up all of the above from my house near Potterville. You may have to move your antenna around and try it near a window. WKAR and WLNS are east of Lansing. WLAJ, WSYM, and WILX are south of Lansing. WXPX is west of Lansing. Pointing west you may be able to pick up the ABC and FOX stations out of Grand Rapids on channels 19 and 20. The ABC station out of G.R. also has the UPN network on a sub channel.

Good luck,

Mark

Location: Corner of ElmWood and Michigan Ave (Lansing)

Anyone around that area getting anymore than NBC, ABC, PAX in HD? All I can get with 3 different indoor antennas purchased at BB. Tried a nonpowered HDTV antenna, and 2 powered Antennas. Any suggestions on what I can do to get FOX and CBS in HD seeing how thats where all my football games are played on! An outdoor antenna is not an option because I live in a townhouse that does not allow that per lease agreement.

I'm in a basement dorm at MSU, and I get a strong signal on everything but pax. This is:

WLNS 59 - 64%
WLIX 57 - 49%
WKAR 55 - 49%
WSYM 38 - 64%
WLAJ 51 - 81%

I'm using a silver sensor as well. I couple things I've noticed though: an amplifier really helps. Without one the recpetion is fairly sketchy. The one I use is a Winegard AP-8780. Second try moving the antenna all around the room. With indoor antenna's there are certain sweet spots where you get good reception. Most everywhere in my dorm I could only get a few channels, but there's one spot in the corner where I get everything. Another thing is that small adjustments make a big difference. If I were to move my antenna an inch to the right or left without changing the direction it is pointing, I would probibly loose half of the channels I get.

Hope this helps.

Ive noticed with the TV I have the HD channels are just 59, 57, etc etc.. They are like 53.1 or 43.4 etc. Those channels listed above with a HDTV Antenna by RCA ANT525 with 45dB amplification on a Sony 57" HDTV with built in Digital/Analog tuner model #KDP-57W5655.

pcaveney,

The TV stations as part of their signal can tell your TV to report their "channel" as something other than what channel they are really on. WKAR is on channel 55, but your TV will show them as 23.1 and 23.2 (23.1 is the PBS HD signal, and 23.2 is their regular SD programing). The PAX station has four different SD programs at once so they show up as 43.1, 43.2, 43.3, and 43.4. Both WLNS and WILX just run one HD program stream, so they just have 6.1 and 10.1. Most stations are displaying their old analog channel that we all know from years of watching their analog station. You don't need to worry about what channel they display when your tuner finds them.

Like SteveZ103 said, try your antenna in different locations, it can make a big difference with a indoor antenna.

I have had no luck with my indoor antenna in different locations in my house.. ordering an outside antenna that will fit behind my TV that Chris White is using currently. Is being shipped now, will see how that works out.

btw, I wasnt worried about what channels there were being detected on, but where they actually were to begin with because my tv doesnt pick them all up and was going to manually tune to it and then mess with moving my antenna around to see if I could pick it up.

Hopefully, that antenna will do the trick. I have a silver sensor that I tried in multiple locations. It wouldn't pick up anything but WLNS (barely), and that's pretty close to me. When I first tried the CM4221 indoors, I was amazed! Even though it is sitting on the floor, jammed in behind a metal file cabinet, I get all the locals with a good signal.

and thats where mine will sit.. right behind my TV :] was ordered friday.. hopefully be here by the end of the week.

I ordered the 8 bay bow similiar to your chris. I live on south side of lansing by miller/cedar st.

I have the 8 bay antenna hooked up on the main floor of my home and it will still only pick up wlns w/0 dropping out. fox wilx......abc.....those will tend to drop out more.

I have a nice yagi on the roof with rotor but It's too directional. Plus I was hoping to stick this new bow in my attick to get the yagi off the roof. that yagi drops stuff too easily when windy...etc. If I put this bow out there on the roof hopefully it will be more reliable for me.

I hope it works for you. Although the 8-bay will pick up weaker signals than the 4-bay, the downside is that it is highly directional. That's one advantage of the 4-bay, it's fairly omnidirectional and so it doesn't really matter where you point it.

well from the looks of it.....its just 2 4 bays side by side. with a track holdeing them together...that I can seperate easily. So if worse comes to worse.

I will try disconnecting one 4 bay...and see If I get better results with it indoors.


Is yours setup in the basement behind a tv chris?

got my 4221 antenna today.. looking forward to this day ending to hook it up and see if I can get fox without it going in and out, as well as CBS for my d@mn football! that is only channel i dont pick up at all, but all of them drop in and out as it stands now, but ABC.

I live about 10 miles Northwest of Jackson in a rural area and was hoping to pick up all the locals(6,10,23,47,53). I have the RCA ATSC11 and the Silver Sensor. As of tonight all I could pick up were 10.1, 47.1, 47.2, 53.1, and 53.2. These all came in great with no fading problems. 6.1 came up when I did a search and it kept fading, now I can't pick it up again. 23.1(or 23.2 for that matter) never even showed up. Should I go with the 4221? Thanks guys, I love this forum, a ton of information.

some people are having worse luck with a non amplified 4221 than with a regular amplified silver sensor. **for indoor use that is.

I live about 10 miles Northwest of Jackson in a rural area and was hoping to pick up all the locals(6,10,23,47,53). I have the RCA ATSC11 and the Silver Sensor. As of tonight all I could pick up were 10.1, 47.1, 47.2, 53.1, and 53.2. These all came in great with no fading problems. 6.1 came up when I did a search and it kept fading, now I can't pick it up again. 23.1(or 23.2 for that matter) never even showed up. Should I go with the 4221? Thanks guys, I love this forum, a ton of information.

You are just about in the shadows of the WLAJ, WILX, WSYM, and WHTV(analog). WKAR and WLNS are both east of Lansing. (WKAR in Okemos, WLNS in Williamston)

I recommend a visit to http://www.antennaweb.org at that site it will tell you what size outdoor antenna and what stations you should be able to receive.

WKAR-DT would be very difficult to pick up 10 miles northwest of Jackson with an indoor antenna. WKAR is at 56Kw. WLNS-DT is at 1,000 Kw, so you have 13dB better chance with them.

(Digital WHTV is in Jackson on the courthouse at very low power and is only simulcasting the analog coverage)

Thanks guys, I looked there before but I was hoping I could get away with an indoor antenna. I am very impressed with the quality I got on wilx, wsym and wlaj. I didn't even get a blip on whtv, but that doesn't really matter to me unless they would be showing their pistons game in hd, but you said they aren't showing any hd.

Am I going to need an outdoor antenna? I have a decent tower to use, the stations aren't too far away(nothing more than 27.5 miles). Could I get away with one of the Channel Master UHF 4 bay or 8 bays without a rotor? I understand I most likely still won't be able to get WKAR, when do you think they will be increasing their power?(I get their analog station fine)...Thanks again.

? I understand I most likely still won't be able to get WKAR, when do you think they will be increasing their power?(I get their analog station fine)...Thanks again.

WKAR-DT is at the maximum power that was assigned by the FCC. There will not be any power increases until after analog television goes away, when we'll get a chance to apply for more.

HGuardian,
If you are going to install an outdoor antenna, I would go ahead and add the rotor. I am not a handyman by any means, and adding the rotor wasn't much extra work at all, when considering the project as a whole.

I have had generally a good signal but today, it isn't stable at all...is it just me having this problem? Ed in Mason, MI

No probs with WSYM today.

Guardian: If you get other stations in Lansing/Jackson, I see no reason you can not get WKAR-dt as well. You will need a good rooftop antenna with a roter. Check out distance from your home to transmitters. I would think they all should be within 30 miles. You will need a directional antenna to pick up the signal well.

Did WLAJ forget to turn on the HD for the NBA games today? I'm not recieving them in HD.

yeah me either, thats the game I have been waiting forever to see.

I live in Galesburg, Mi using a channel master 8 bay antenna with an amplifier.

I pick up 6-8-10 17(19) 23 47 53. I do have a rotor and use the lansing direction because 3 in kalamazoo is on 2 and my antenna is uhf and 3(2) has a low output. 23 is problem sometimes but I think they have made changes to their exciter at times. 53 was a problem but they were having tech dificulities.

ps all of these channels are digital/ hd when broadcast that way. my only question is ??? My mitsubishi 55" with builit in hd tuner shows 17 as 19 and the sony with built in shows 17 as 17??????? must be that s the way the sets are built.

I want to hook up satelite.

I have detatched garage. I want to put the dish on the garage roof and run the cable underground to the house.

When I did the garage I ran 2 seperate conduit 1 for High voltage and 1 for misc wires.

My question is the run is about 130ft and goes from the garage underground directly into my equipment room in the basement of home, the conduit sits on top of one another.

Will I have any signal issues running quad shielded cable inside of conduit that is on top of another tube of conduit with my Line voltage??

Shouldn't be a problem, I have lots of SAT and Antenna lines, all Quad running right next to AC and haven't noticed any issues.

How big is the conduit? What SAT service are you looking at? You may need to get 4-5 lines in that conduit as well as a ground line depending how you do your setup.

the extra conduit is only 1"

Plan on D-network with HD.

I should be able to just ground it next to garage right?

and I was thinkin I would only have to run 2 lines to the house 1 for each reciever.

I plan to get 2- of the new HD Dvr boxes with twin tuners in them I think 942's.

I see a couple of problems. first, all ground points need to be bonded together, just driving a stake by the garage can cause a problem with different ground potentials. It is recommended that all ground points be connected with at least a #10 wire.

Second, with D moving to their new dish I'd plan on running at least 5 feeds to the house. You could mount the switch in the garage and run 4 lines to the house and then use a cascadeable switch there to generate the needed outputs. E* has the 942, D has the HR-20 BTW. I'm not familiar with E* stuff anymore, dumped them years ago, but D will need 2 connections per DVR to get full functionality, so if you just plan on 2 DVRs you would be fine with 4 feeds, and then add the second switch when the need for more outputs arises.

I'm a firm believe in over wiring, I may not be the average consumer but it seems everytime I overwire I end up needing the extra line sooner than later. BTW, don't forget an antenna setup...

Hello, and Happy Holidays to everyone in the Greater Lansing area. I have been experiencing audio dropouts with WLAJ 53-1 for about a week. The last couple days it was about every 10 seconds or so and was wondering if anyone else was having this problem. Signal strength is fine, and I have tried to contact their production control room to ask if they were dealing with equipment problems but have not been able to talk to anyone yet. It seems that WLAJ and WILX are always a problem with HD broadcasting. Thanks and have a great weekend.

John

I just noticed the audio dropouts for WLAJ during the football games today. Very distracting. They've been 2-3x per minute at times.

the extra conduit is only 1"

Plan on D-network with HD.

I should be able to just ground it next to garage right?

and I was thinkin I would only have to run 2 lines to the house 1 for each reciever.

I plan to get 2- of the new HD Dvr boxes with twin tuners in them I think 942's.

For DishNetwork (E*) there are a few things to consider right now.
For this market you will get a superdish, which handles 3 sats and need a switch (included). The switch can be safely mounted at the dish meaning you can run just two wires into the house. PROBLEM - the 942 requires two lines per receiver. This means you would need 4.

SOLUTION - Get an upgrade to the DPP44 switch - which can be used with a DP seperator at the receiver to split the one line into two and works great with no degradation. The DPP44 also alows you to get a 4th sat, meaning you can add in 129 degree oribital. This is the new sat they are using with Dish 1000 dishes. This can be done by adding a second 18" dish.

OR - I just zip tied a DP single LNB on the end of my 121 superdish LNB. While it looks weird it works great, and gives me all 4 sats with one dish. This gives you all the Dish regular programming (119/110), HD programming(110/129), and Locals (121).

PROBLEM - The Dish 942 is DISCONTINUED - And I have two of them.... They are being replaced FEB 1st with the Vip622. The same receiver - but MPEG4. Dish is probally going to replace equip for current subs, but for your safety:
SOLUTION - DON"T ACTIVATE UNTIL MID FEB!

Good Luck. BTW I learned everything I did with this on www.satelliteguys.us

The audio dropouts during football games seem to be a ABC national problem carried thru to local stations. Are you also having trouble on non-HD programming such as local news?

hello all! I am new to the forum and new to the world of HDTV. For Chrstmas this year I got a Westinghouse LTV-32W1. Since then I have been trying to put together a workable hi-def set-up without breaking the bank. I ordered a RCA ASTC-11 tuner for my set, but it has since been out of stock, and as of yet I have not received it. Does anyone have a suggestion for an OTA tuner? I live near Frandor, only a few blocks due west of WLNS. Could someone give me a recommendation on an antenna set-up. I would like something that isn't incredibly directional, so I don't have to turn it for every station, seeing as I have them located in almost every direction from me. I do want to be able to get reception beyond Lansing. Any help would be greatly appriciated.

I'm about 7 miles north of you. I'm getting excellent reception with a Samsung SIR-T451 purchased at Circuit City, and a $15 Radio Shack double bow-tie antenna on the second floor. I get 6, 10, 23, 43, 47, and 53. 10 and 43 are weakest.

subjective,

I'm using one of the U.S. Digital tuners from Wall Mart and have been happy with it. Only problem I've had with it is that the audio has locked up a couple of times, but turning off the tuner, unpluging it for a few seconds and pluging it back in seems to reset it just fine.

I live near Potterville, and have the smallest outside VHF/UHF antenna Menards sells, on my roof and I get all the Lansings stations 6 (59), 23 (55), 10 (57), 47 (38), and 53 (51). I also get from the Grand Rapids/Kalamazoo area 43 (44), 41 (20), 17 (19), 8 (7), and 3 (2). I have also had 31 (33) from Ann Arbor, but lately I have not seen them. I can not receive anything from the Flint or Detroit areas. I don't have to use the rotor to much to pick up most of the stations. If you don't want to use a rotor you could try mounting two antennas and use a antenna switch to select between them. For the digital stations you only need a VHF antenna for channels 8 and 3 from Grand Rapids, so you could "park" the one antenna just on them without a rotor.

Good Luck

Thanks for the help.

subjective: ..3 stations are in Lansing and 2 stations are between Lansing and jackson (at least, their transmitters are. Buy a 'medium' UHF non-directional antenna and point it south west (experiment in direction) and see if you can pick up the 2 transmitters there (Fox and NBC). Google Winegard and Channel Master and Stark Electronics (who sell antennas, etc.) for information. There is a antenna that I have heard good reports about, the Silver Sensor. Unless you get a rooftop antenna, you will probably only get these 5 stations with the exception (possibly) of ABC out of Flint, Channel 12. The best OTA receiver is the new Directv HD receiver, the h-20; it is great on OTA. But, then, you have to subscribe to Directv to get it. But, then, there is some good HD programming on directv and much more to come the next 2 years. Of course, I realize you want to keep costs down.

How much do I have to worry about multipath? Will a non-directional antenna cause me problems? I do live only a few blocks west of WLNS. WKAR is also to the southeast. I don't mind putting an antenna on the roof, and I plan on purchasing a rotor if necessary, I just don't want to have to turn it all the time just to channel surf. Also how is the HD programming around L.A.? Would I be missing anything not getting VHF to still be able to pick up the SD channels?

I just looked at the silver sensor. That is the antenna that a friend of mine has. He lives in E.L. only 2 mi. from me. It doesn't work very well for him. We both live in neighborhoods with lots of old trees.

Thanks for the replys regarding audio dropouts on WLAJ, 53-1. It was occuring not just with football, but also network HD broadcasts. Sunday it was fine, no dropouts. I did leave a voice message with the control room saturday morning, about the problem, well hopefully it is corrected. (for now)................

I still have Channelmaster Quantuum UHF/VHF, with remote rotor on roof. Have purchased a 4-bowtie bay and also have a Silver Sensor. One of these days would like to see if either will work, when installed somewhere other than the peak!!. Want to clean up my new roof.

Thanks.

John

I was getting some major signal problems with WSYM today during the football game, the signal kept fluctuating. All my other channels were coming in fine. Anyone else have that problem?

I also have picked up WLNS good with a great lock with my silver sensor so I figure there is no reason to spend the big bucks on an outdoor antenna.

I just experianced audio drop out from wlns.....its making my speakers sound horrible and crackly...... in the 4th quarter

WSYM is by far the weakest station in the area now.

I believe the audio problem you heard in the 4th Q was a CBS problem, not a WLNS problem. It was very annoying so I'm glad they fixed it fairly quickly.

What's wrong with NBC? Redwings are SD but they keep switching to the Phili game and that's HD. I'm really bummed :(

They better shape up.

I think NBC is only doing one game in HD each week, the others are in SD. Last week the Red Wings were in HD.

Hello:

Just wondering if anyone else experienced audio problems Tuesday night with 53-1, ABC. With Commander in Chief, and Boston Legal I had music and background but no dialog. Very strange. The other networks were fine. thanks.

John

I noticed the same, it sounded like they were running the back channels from the DD 5.1 feed. It's too bad they can't pass the DD feed.

I noticed the same, it sounded like they were running the back channels from the DD 5.1 feed. It's too bad they can't pass the DD feed.

That sure would be nice for the SuperBowl. I really like the HD picture from WLAJ, and DD would be a nice bonus.

Thanks for the reply. I figured it was a ABC issue. I agree, I sure hope everything goes well for the Super bowl as 53-1 seems to have the most problems of all locals. Take care and have a great weekend!!

John

I was trying to watch desparate housewives and greys anatomy. But there appears to be no center channel or voice audio. Whats going on with this station. I moved my anntenna to grand rapids and watched 41- abc with no problems

Hello all,

I am wondering if anyone here can tell me whether WKAR-DT broadcasts the digital national HD feed when it is available?

I am in the Grand Rapids market, and I have a DVR that uses TVGOS, and I have to map something to the 35.1 channel. I want to map 35.1 to any channel (in this time zone) that uses this feed so I can get the right listings.

Thanks in advance!

23.1 is the national PBS-HD feed.

I was trying to watch desparate housewives and greys anatomy. But there appears to be no center channel or voice audio. Whats going on with this station. I moved my anntenna to grand rapids and watched 41- abc with no problems
Wow. That's, what, 60-65 miles of RG11?