Well, since we are the capital of the state, I thought a more official thread might be in order......

Just thought I would update this since a couple things have changed. Now have the antenna on a 25' mast using a (now discontinued) Radio Shack 1171 amp, and can get ABC from Flint perfectly! In fact, this is what I can now receive in the heart of Lansing.

WJRT-DT 36 ABC Flint
WSYM-DT 38 FOX Lansing
WZPX-DT 44 PAX Battle Creek
WILX-DT 57 NBC Onondaga
WLNS-DT 59 CBS Lansing
WKAR-DT 23 PBS East Lansing

Just recieved a Panasonic TU-DST52 over-the-air HDTV tuner (free offer from Panny.) I am using a Radio Shack #15-2160 UHF antenna on top of a 20 foot mast in the backyard, amplifying the signal with a Radio Shack #15-1108 signal amp.

Sadly, this combination has only resulted in 2 stations; WLNS-DT CBS , and WSYM-DT Fox47, both local. I was really hoping to get WJRT ABC from Flint/Chesaning, but can only get a blip on the meter and no lock at all, about the same with WOTV ABC from Battle Creek. Has anyone in the Lansing area (inside the city in particular) been able to pick up an ABC affiliate? Please share your success stories!

More on a general note, what rumors have you heard about local stations status?
It's a good bet that WKAR PBS will be up in May.

How about WLAJ ABC? Last check shows they are "awaiting FCC permit," what does this mean? Does that mean they haven't even started the hardware setup?

What about WHTV UPN in Jackson, can we expect to able to pick them up in Lansing when they go live?

Anyone have info on why WLNS isn't sending out DD 5.1, and when they will start?

This should be enough to get things rolling......
:).

While I'm not familiar with the antenna, I'd try it without the pre-amp. Some people have reported loosing digital channels with RS pre-amps, the noise level is quite high. With a decent antenna/pre-amp setup you should be in a good location to get Flint, and Grand Rapids too.

He/she will only get Grand Rapids if the Mast antenna picks up VHF decently, as almost all GR digital channels are VHF. I live in Charlotte, and can not bring in GR digitals. I can get a 5% blip sometimes, but rarely. I get WSYM-dt, WLNS-DT, WOTV-DT, and The Pax Digital, which is only on upconvert ATM.

I live in holt.. I can get WJRT from Flint in on a pretty regular basis.
The signal fluctuates between 30- 57 percent on my Toshiba dst-3000 reciever. (anything above 37 percent is watchable with minimal dropouts)

I have a "double bowtie" RS indoor UHF antenna hooked to a RS amp. it's all sitting on my TV in the basement.

Since I only have a UHF antenna I can't get WOTV... anybody else have any luck getting NBC in?

What's up with WILX DT anyway.. Last I had seen it looked like they were supposed to be up and running last Dec... but that might of been some false info that I had read from TitanTV.

Anyway.. Thanks for starting the thread, srgilbert

-Randy

Originally posted by Matt L
While I'm not familiar with the antenna, I'd try it without the pre-amp. Some people have reported loosing digital channels with RS pre-amps, the noise level is quite high. With a decent antenna/pre-amp setup you should be in a good location to get Flint, and Grand Rapids too. The RS amp has two components, one that attaches to the antenna outside, and the inside part that is powered that connects to the tuner. Will I need to actually remove the part from the antenna to test this theory, or can I just disconnect the amp inside?

WOTV is UHF. You may be able to get it. Try pointing your DBT(Double bow tie) to the southwest or northeast. Depending on the weather, That is what I have to do. I get consistant 100% signals on it, and I am only about 17 miles from you.

I do have trouble with the signal from Fox, though. Sometimes it will come in fine, and then it will drop and I cannot get a signal for 3 or four days. Not a big deal though since there is little of value on Fox.

srgilbert, sorry to say to try my idea you will have to remove the pre-amp at the antenna. If you unplug the power inserter I doubt you will get anything.

I'm able to get WLNS (6) with 100 signal strength, but FOX does go out quite a bit. I've had my Hughes DirecTV box with a SilverSensor for a couple of weeks now and I find myself watching much more CBS than I used to. I'm moving to a new house in Mason in two weeks, so I'm waiting to get try a dish antenna when I move. I have the new dish in my office right now. So, I won't see HDNet until then.

I'll get to see the RedWings in a couple weeks on HDNet, and I'll also see the March Madness games. That'll keep me happy for awhile.

Originally posted by martyllian
WOTV is UHF. You may be able to get it. Try pointing your DBT(Double bow tie) to the southwest or northeast. Depending on the weather, That is what I have to do. I get consistant 100% signals on it, and I am only about 17 miles from you.

I do have trouble with the signal from Fox, though. Sometimes it will come in fine, and then it will drop and I cannot get a signal for 3 or four days. Not a big deal though since there is little of value on Fox. Some may not realize that fox47 doesn't even turn on the TX until 7pm and shuts down at 10pm.

srgilbert, sorry to say to try my idea you will have to remove the pre-amp at the antenna. If you unplug the power inserter I doubt you will get anything.Rats, I did try just bypassing the power inserter, and the results were no better or worse than before. If I get some time soon (and if it's not so damn cold!) I will pull the antenna down and remove it completely to see if it helps.

Though, I think they forget to turn off or on their transmission a lot. I was watching that 70's show at 11:30 one night on 47 when it went out. I tried back the next night at around 8:00-8:30P.m, and there was no signal.

One saturday, they were showing the infomercials on 47 digital, and as soon as NAscar came on, the Digital switched off.. found it odd

Since I only have a UHF antenna I can't get WOTV... anybody else have any luck getting NBC in?


I meant to say NBC Wood channel 7.. Not WOTV... Anybody get NBC?

I live on the west side of Lansing and recieve channel 8 (7) from Grand Rapids with very few dropouts. This spring they are going to raise the tower another 150 feet and raise there power to 30kws, they are at 16kws now. I get channel 12 (36) perfectly and channel 5 (22) out of Flint great. The only channel I really have problems with is channel 3 (2) out of Kalamazoo with some dropouts caused from channel 2 in Detriot. I am using a Wineguard 8200P with a Wineguard 8700 pre-amp on a 2 story house.

Originally posted by srgilbert
Rats, I did try just bypassing the power inserter, and the results were no better or worse than before. If I get some time soon (and if it's not so damn cold!) I will pull the antenna down and remove it completely to see if it helps. Update, I did finally get around to removing the RS preamp, and as before, no better or worse, so I took them both back. Still only getting 2 stations!:(

srgilbert, sorry to hear that. A few basic questions, are you using a good quality coax, and are the ends installed properly? Do you have a rotor? If you're in the city I'd use a quad shield coax, Home Depot --$.39/ft. use the correct quad shield connectors and make sure none of the ground wires short out the inner feed, if it does the shield becomes one big antenna. You might try one of the Channel Master or Winegard 8 bay bow-tie antennas, i read good things about them, about $60 if I recall correctly.

I had to play with a few antennas until I hit the right one, you might have to try a few more until you hit the right one.

Wilx is on the air is anyone in Lansing getting it

Hey, got it! 57-3 looks good, will they have Hd capability (when NBC goes back to it's limited HD). I'm getting it at 88 on my RCA so they must be putting out a decent signal, I'm 40 to 50 miles east of Lansing.

Great news on WILX! I didn't realize they were coming online now. I'm picking them up down here in Mason with great strength with my little Silver Sensor. Now I'm only waiting on PBS (May) and WLAJ (Who knows?). For now, I'm very happy.

Originally posted by Matt L
srgilbert, sorry to hear that. A few basic questions, are you using a good quality coax, and are the ends installed properly? Do you have a rotor? If you're in the city I'd use a quad shield coax, Home Depot --$.39/ft. use the correct quad shield connectors and make sure none of the ground wires short out the inner feed, if it does the shield becomes one big antenna. You might try one of the Channel Master or Winegard 8 bay bow-tie antennas, i read good things about them, about $60 if I recall correctly.

I had to play with a few antennas until I hit the right one, you might have to try a few more until you hit the right one. Well, the coax is pretty basic Ratshack stuff with twist-on connectors. I don't have a rotor, but I do change the direction by hand when needed. I've already spent enough money on this, so I think I will just have to wait for WLAJ to get off their butts and get on the air. Oh well...... thanks though.:)

I checked out 57-3 WILX again tonight and they did show Boomtown in HD plus they had 5.1 DD enabled. Glad to see NBC is back to HD. I don't know if NBC does 5.1, but when they do WLIX is all set. I notice their signal is quite directional. With WLNS I can leave my antennas pointed at Detroit and still get a decent signal, but WILX doesn't even blip. If I point the antennas at Lansing WILX comes in great.

Now all we need is WKAR...

I have a couple of questions for anyone who can receive WSYM-DT out of Lansing. I'm from Midland, and my local Fox station doesn't have a -DT construction permit yet, and they are owned by Sinclair. So even if they do go on the air within the next two years, it will be another two years before they pass the fox widescreen signal... Anyway, i'm looking for an alternative station, and WSYM is the nearest possibility. My questions are if you can receive it, how far are you from the station, and at what strength does it come in at? I'm around 80 miles away, and i'm trying to decide if I will need one or two Televes DAT75 antenna's.

Also, do they pass the Fox widescreen signal at all? When they first went on the air they didn't, but I haven't heard any new news in a while.

Thanks for your help

Greetings all! I'm currently a member of the Central Florida HDTV group, but I'm moving to Williamston in June. I knew WLNS and WSYM were both on the air, but this is the first I've heard about WILX. Great news! Does anyone know where the towers for these stations are located? I'm hoping I can just use an attic antenna like I use now.

Chris, here a re couple of links that may help. They were done by Qyv10 and posted in the Grand Rapids section but they may help you out...

Mid-Michigan (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=1884630&fullpage=1)

Grand Rapids (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=1874041)

In williamston you should be in almost as good as a spot as I am to get a great deal of DT and HD stations. Dertoit and Lansing for sure, perhaps some from Flint too.

Well, I live right in Lansing, so I would be a bad judge of signal strength, but I can confirm that Fox47 does pass along the widescreen signal, which makes 24 look pretty sweet. It should also be noted that they are guilty of the all too common "asleep at the switch" phenomenon. Often it can be several minutes into a broadcast before they jump to WS. Another oddity (to me at least) on my audio receiver, it indicates they are passing a DD5.1 signal, although I was under the impression that Fox-DT only supports DD2.0.:)

Originally posted by Chris White
I'm moving to Williamston..... Moving from FL to Michigan, huh? Here is another link you might find useful: http://he.honda.ca/powerequipment/snowblowers/default2.asp

;)

LOL! I was just hoping my neighbor would own a snowblower. :)

Steve, I tried to pick up 38-5 last night and was surprised to see it coming in great, I hadn't tried to get it in some time. As you know I'm in Flushing pretty much due south of you with my Televes/ CM 7777 combo I was getting 88-90 on my RCA, so I'd guess you have a shot at getting it. It was coming in as well as WILX 57-1 and WLNS 59-1, all in the 80-90 range.

Matt,

Sounds like I might have a chance at WSYM-DT. Right now with my 20 element winegard antenna I can get a 16-18% signal from WLNS at night, and slightly less on fox and nbc. The crazy thing is right now I can get 3 CBS -DT channels, and by may i'll be able to get 5 PBS channels, but there's still no local fox channels... Two DAT75's should deffenitly get the job done. I just wish I would have picked one up when you did for $60-70 shipped.

I'm probibly going to order two from cpc this week, and I might have 1 to sell if two doesn't get any more than one, so if someone from Michigan want's to split the cost for a DAT75 just let me know.

GRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!! No widescreen on 24 on Fox47-DT last night!:mad: I even called the engineering dept last night and left a messege, didn't help though. And tonight, WILX NBC isn't in HD either, just "windowboxed" during West Wing.

I just ordered two DAT75's, so once I get them up, i'll let you know my results trying to get fox47 at 85 miles. I'd like to say thanks to Matt L, magic123, dynamohum1, and everyone else who helped me decide on the Televes Antenna's. I should get them by friday, so wish me luck :)

Steve

srgilbert, West Wing is NOT in HD and is allways letterboxed. Rumors are that it will be HD, but no time frame.

I have one sort-of ht question and one non-ht question.

An ht-question:
According to my realtor, I can have either Comcast or Millenium Digital Cable in Williamston. If that's correct, which is the better choice and why? Does either company offer HD on cable?

And a non-ht question:
How is Sprint's wireless coverage (versus Verizon) in Lansing? It's really good here, but I've been told it's not too good some places.

Comcast is a larger cable company, and probably more likely to offer HD before Millenium. I have Millenium down here in Mason, so can't speak for Comcast offerings.

We use Verizon cell. Had best coverage in this area when we signed up last year.

Welcome to the neighborhood.

Geordon

I'll tell you this, I highly doubt williamston will get HD on cable. You would have to be in East lansing-Lansing to get it if and when it comes

I am not holding my breath here, either. That is why I purchased two DAT75s. Lot of good they are doing me, though, as I don't have an HD tuner. :(

Geordon

Hey, any updates on WKAR HD? It's the 15th and I haven't seen a blip on 55-1 yet, I've been checking it every few days in case they were doing transmitter tests. I want my PBS HD!

Matt,

You may want to check http://wkar.org/dt/. They say that DTV testing will begin in early June.

Geordon

Geordon, thanks, I forgot about that website. Glad to see they will be doing PBS HD, that and WB HD are all I'm missing.


BTW, glad to see WLNS stopped the stretch, hope it's permanent...

Originally posted by Geordon
Matt,

You may want to check http://wkar.org/dt/. They say that DTV testing will begin in early June.

Geordon Grrrrr! :mad: If you look now, they have upped the testing until July! "When our Digital TV signal is turned on for initial testing in July, those with HDTV sets may get a sneak peek at digital television from WKAR-DT" Man! :mad: :mad: :mad:

Hmmm, I've been punching in 55-1 several times a day for the last week, this is frustrating. I really want my PBS HD.

I guess maybe I should have donated some money during the spring pledge drive!:o

I wrote to WKAR-Dt and got this reply from Gary Blievernicht--

A little over a week ago, a power divider at the base of our antenna burned out, the
evaulation of that divider as well as pictures of the connections in our antenna lead
us to believe that our antenna is damaged as well. We have returned the divider to
Raymond, Maine for repair, and are making arrangement to send the antenna there
as well.

Our antenna will be used for both channel 23 analog and our DT service on 55, until
it returns we can't go on the air in digital. Our DT transmitter is in the process of
being installed, and we've just authorized the construction of the cooling system for
the transmitter.

Because of the delays associated with the antenna, we're targeting a July start for
our DT service.

And for you that's the good news. The bad news is that the FCC assigned us only
56kW of power for our DT service, due to channel allocations in Canada we were
not able to secure an increase in that power level. By way of comparison, WLNS as
a low frequency VHF station on channel 6 was authorized 1,000,000 watts on
channel 59 for their DT service. We'll be at substantially lower power than the
commercial stations in Lansing, it is unlikely that you will be able to receive our
signal.

A spot of good news, you certainly should expect to receive WFUM when they
activate their digital service on channel 52 this fall.


Gary W. Blievernicht
Broadcasting Services
Michigan State University




I thought I'd pass this along. This has to be frustrating to the team that has been working on this.

Man, that stinks. Good news for me at least, I could practically see MSU if I stood on my roof.:)

I am in East Lansing(lilac Street), and am trying out hdtv. Right now I have the Zenith HDV420 receiver, and Zenith Silver Sensor indoor antenna, Radio shack amp. Right now I can get Fox, CBS, and Pax, I can almost get NBC it comes in and out (out more than in). I really want to get an ABC channel, For NBA playoffs, and Alias. The antenna is working well I think, but I want more. Is there anything I can do, or any other antenna I should look at? Or can I string a bunch of something like radio shack bow tie or rabit ear antennas together? Anything else I should look at doing for a better signal, or better antenna? I am thinking of trying some more antennas... 30 day returns

Edit: whats going on with comcast and hdtv in the area?

Originally posted by darkhorror
I am in East Lansing(lilac Street), and am trying out hdtv. Right now I have the Zenith HDV420 receiver, and Zenith Silver Sensor indoor antenna, Radio shack amp. Right now I can get Fox, CBS, and Pax, I can almost get NBC it comes in and out (out more than in). I really want to get an ABC channel, For NBA playoffs, and Alias. The antenna is working well I think, but I want more. Is there anything I can do, or any other antenna I should look at? Or can I string a bunch of something like radio shack bow tie or rabit ear antennas together? Anything else I should look at doing for a better signal, or better antenna? I am thinking of trying some more antennas... 30 day returns

Edit: whats going on with comcast and hdtv in the area? I don't know if you read my opening post, but I never was able to get ABC out of Flint with my setup. I didn't know we could get PAX, but I don't think they have anything I would watch anyway! I haven't heard anything about Comcast HD, would be nice though if it's affordable.:) I'd be happy if WLAJ (ABC) would get off their butts and get on the air.

PAX is WZPX, 43 analog, 44-1 digital. They are located just west of Lansing, on the map it looks like they are closer to Lansing than Grand Rapids. They are PAX but they also offer WB stuff at odd hours and NOT in HD. They are a real pain in the *** for me since they wipe out 2 HD stations I would like to get, WWJ CBS-DT and WTVS-DT both from Detroit. WWJ has DD 5.1 capabilities and while it's not used too much yet I anticipate in the fall it will be, they broadcast on 44-1 same as WZPX -DT. And WTVS, PBS -HD is on 43-1 as is WZPX analog. So many of us over in this part of the state can't get these stations due to the FCC's stupidity in assigning Freq.'s. I really can't blame WZPX but they make a good target.

well, thats not good, I was wondering why smallville wasn't in HD yesterday. How big are the smaller "large" antennas, where would I get one or see one? Is there any thing else I should try to get ABC, or NBC? My signal meter does read that I am getting a signal, but it's not quite strong enough.

Can you put up an outdoor antenna? If so, I'd look at some of the Channel Master units, the 8-Bay bow tie seems to have a good following, can't remember it's model number. If you go that route you'd also need a rotor, so you're looking at about $125 for materials. The antenna isn't that large so it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

While WJRT-DT ABC 36-1, puts out a decent signal I find it quite directional. I can pick up WLNS with my antenna pointed in various directions without a problem, not so with WJRT. It may be a function of distance, I'm about 14 miles from their tower. That's one of the reasons I rarely watch them, the other is they stretch all non-HD suff as WLNS used to. In case you didn't know their tower is in Cheasening, NNE of you.

Go to Radio Shack or one of the Home centers and pick up a decent antenna and try it out. RS and others are good about returns so it shouldn't be a problem if it's not what you need. One note, stay away from cheap pre-amps, the noise factor is high and will often kill HD signals. I'd opt for a larger antenna over a cheap pre-amp.

Guys I live in Cedar Springs which is about 25 miles North of GR. I did some figuring and your CBS-DT is about 68 miles from here. I have a channel master 3679 which has a 60 mile range on UHF. I have a Radio Shack amp on it as well. I have a Channel master rotor heading this way too. Any chance I could get 59 here? Our channel 2 which is CBS kind of sucks.

Need an antenna - live in Holt
I'm trying to make an antenna decision and live in Holt. I currently only have an indoor Silver Sensor antenna and can pick up the following:

WSYM-DT (FOX) 216 degrees
WZPX-DT (PAX) 283 degrees
WILX-DT (NBC) 196 degrees
WLNS-DT (CBS) 67 degrees

I'd like to be able to strengthen the signals on the above with an outdoor antenna and also be able to pick up the following:
WOTV-DT (ABC) 271 degrees
or
WJRT-DT (ABC) 36 degrees

and possibly add a VHF antenna if there were any hope of picking up WOOD-DT (7-1 NBC, 7-2 UPN) 280 degrees

Ideally, these would be fixed rather than having to use a rotor. I figure since I'm getting most of what I want with a tiny indoor antenna, a medium omnidirectional UHF antenna should do well and maybe even pick up WOTV-DT -- antennaweb.org says it should. That leaves the GR WOOD-DT station. Has anybody in this area had any luck pulling it in?

I'm thinking of ordering a Winegard CC-3178 channel cut (7-8) 10 element Yagi style antenna to try for WOOD-DT but would like to know if it's possible before making the attempt. And maybe a Winegard PR-8800 eight bay bowtie for the UHF stuff.

How would this work?

<edited 7/2>
I purchased the CC-3178 (VHF 7-8) and a CM4248 (UHF) Yagi with the 9521 antenna rotor. I haven't installed either but planned on using a CM gabel mount. Any comments or suggestions?

OK, this is weird. I just picked up a used Samsung Sir-T150 on Ebay for about $150 and plugged it in this evening to my analog TV and my Silver Sensor antenna and let it do an autoscan for channels. This was about 11:30pm so I wasn't expecting much since some go off the air at 11:00pm; I basically just wanted to make sure it worked. What surprised me the most was that I was getting an ABC affiliate. Lansing doesn't have an ABC affiliate broadcasting in digital yet and I haven't yet picked up Flint or Battle Creek using the same antenna on a MyHD card. But I was getting an ABC station with no breakups and perfect picture. The call letters were WTVG 13-1,13-2,13-3 and this was from Toledo, OH. 13-3 showed their regional doppler radar. Was this some weather fluke or is this receiver that much better than the MyHD card?

Anybody else in the Lansing area able to pick up channel 13 out of Toledo?

It is possible that the Samsung receiver is better then the MyHD because it's newer, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was just the weather. The only way to find out if it was is to check if it comes in tonight. I was able to get WOTV-DT out of battle creak one night (about 90-100) miles away, but then it never came in again.

I tend to agree that the Toledo station was a fluke. What made you decide to go try yagis and an antenna rotor instead of a more omni-directional? The UHF stations you're trying to pull in are pretty spread out, but a 4-bay bow-tie might have worked.

Tried to get Toledo again last night and had no luck so assume it was a fluke but will only know for sure once I get the antenna up.

I decided to do a rotor no matter what just to make tweaking easier and chose the 4248 because of reports here in the forums. It was either going to be that or the 4228 and the 4228 looked like it might be heavier and catch more wind resistance and it was reportedly less resistant to multipath. If I'm wrong, I'll spend another $45 and try the 4228. The antenna pricing isn't bad but the installation/setup is what worries me since I've never done it before. The 4228 may have the advantage of not having to be moved as much since it reportedly has a broader angle of reception but the local stations seem to vary so significantly in direction (even though they're close) that this still may not be an advantage in my case. So, I'm trying the 4248 first.

Hey just got a note from Gary at WKAR, looks like they will start testing sometime in August now. They are still having antenna problems.

I installed a Channel Master 4221 (4-bay bow) on the roof last weekend. I'm getting at or near 100% for WLNS, WSYM, and WILX. I get WZPX (Pax) at 50-60%. Does anyone know what the time frame is for WLAJ-DT to be on the air?

I finally got around to installing my antennas and here are the results so far. I can get:

5-1 WNEM-DT (CBS) 37° 68 miles <edited - not consistent>
6-1 WLNS-HD (CBS) 67° 9 miles
8-1 WOOD-DT (NBC) 280° 50 miles <edited - see new post>
8-2 WSXP (UPN) 280° 50 miles <edited - see new post>
8-3 WOOD RADAR 280° 50 miles <edited - see new post>
10-1 WILX-DT (NBC) 196° 13 miles
12-1 WJRT-DT (ABC) 36° 47 miles
17-1 WXMI 17 (FOX) 280° 50 miles
41-1 WOTV-DT (ABC) 271° 48 miles
41-2 WOTV radar 271° 48 miles
43-1 WZPX-DT (PAX) 283° 28 miles
47-1 WSYM-HD (FOX) 216° 13 miles
47-2 WSYM-SD (FOX) 216° 13 miles
50-1 WKBD-DT (UPN) 112° 62 miles <added 7/17, maybe a fluke>
62-1 WWJ-DT (CBS) 113° 70 miles <added 7/17, maybe a fluke>

But that's with changing the antenna direction. So far, the most versatile is around 280 degrees where I can get 8 (NBC,UPN), 17 (FOX), 41 (ABC), 43 (PAX), 47 (FOX).

I can't comment on absolute signal strengths because my Samsung SIR-T150 is only giving me a bar graph. This is with the CM-4248 and the Winegard CC-3178 combo. I installed with a gabel mount and a 5 foot mast above the roof on the south side of Holt.

I'm also getting an anomaly on WILX (NBC). I get good signal but every 70 seconds it cuts out for 3 seconds -- this is very regular. Anybody know what might be causing this?

<Edited - it appears that a Samsung firmware downgrade from 2.0 -> 1.8 eliminates this. A known problem that occurred relatively infrequently and involves Tandberg encoders. There's apparently also a fix for the encoder if the station would apply it. >

<Edited - As originally posted, I wanted to be able to be able to get most channels without having to use the rotor to move the antenna around. At the moment, I'm pointing the antenna at 280° as indicated above. I've added my silver sensor to the cable with a hybrid splitter and pointed it at 60° indoors in order to pick up WLNS. This addition has not yet created a multipath situation that affects my current digital reception and should also allow pickup of WKAR (PBS) when it goes online. I'm now wondering if I can add another silver sensor or similar small antenna pointed at 190° to get WILX (NBC) and WLAJ (ABC), WHTV (UPN) when they come online. This would be 90 degrees askew from the main antenna so if it were highly directional, I think the chance of interference would be minimal. I'll probably try it and report back. If it works - the 280°, 60°, 190° arrangement would give me access to most channels in the GR and Lansing DMA's without constantly moving the antenna.

I'm not getting even a blip from WOTV and that surprises me. I've got my antenna pointed roughly 30 degrees or so off of it (the same as WZPX), but bow tie antennas aren't very directional. The 4221 is rated as a large directional, so maybe I just need to get it a bit higher. It's just barely above the roofline of a one story house.

Chris White,

Your WOTV situation surprises me too. I'm getting a very consistent signal from them and only have the antenna 5 ft above roof line. My house is a quad level style though so it's more like 1.5 stories off the ground. I suspect you may have to point more precisely toward it rather than raise the height.

Also, for anybody else in the area:
Can you get WKBD-DT reliably or is tonight a freak weather night again?

After doing a little more research, I can now understand why I'm getting WZPX, but not WOTV. Although both stations are listed as being in Grand Rapids, WZPX is 39 miles from me, and WOTV is 60 miles. If I want to get ABC, it would probably be easier to get a rotor and pick up WJRT in Flint (39 miles away). For now, I guess I'll just wait for WLAJ.

From the south side of Holt, WOTV is MUCH easier to get than WJRT.

OK, I've got WOOD-DT coming in now. What I've had since putting up the antenna is somewhat snowy analog reception on WOOD 8 but not horribly so. The signal meter on the STB continued to show either a good signal or nothing and it would alternate never locking the channel.

I just scrounged up some old Archer parts I had lying around and finally got the station to come in. I placed an FM trap before my in-house distribution amp and then placed another 2 way-amp in front of that amp. This brought the analog station in very clear and got me the digital station at least for now. So I suspect this means that what is really needed is a good pre-amp (CM-7777) and a better FM trap if the CM-7777 doesn't do it.

<edited 7/24>
The CM-7777 did wonders for analog reception and eliminated the need for the FM traps. It didn't allow me to get WWMT-DT (3-1) but did bring in the analog signal pretty clear with the exception of some "sparkly" interference. Checking analog 2 late at night shows WJBK (2) from Detroit trying to sneak in so maybe it's the cause of the interference. WOOD-DT comes in more reliably now and their analog signal looks perfect. But they too have a problem with Detroit WXYZ (7) very late night (3-4am) interfering with the signal. Its hard to tell how much the CM-7777 helps with digital; the signal strength goes way up but it no longer necessarily corresponds to reliability of the signal. With respect to WOOD-DT, it did help a lot though.

Every week that we miss out on HD Monday Night Football, I'm going to get a bit more aggravated at WLAJ. What are they doing? And better yet, what is the FCC doing?

I just dropped a note to Tim at WKAR regarding the proposed August start of HD/DT testing, here is his response:


"We are still waiting on our antenna repair. It could be another 8-12 weeks.
Really. It's killing us. The digital transmitter is installed and ready to go but we
can't do anything until the antenna repair [it was damaged last May] is
completed.

We are currently broadcasting on a temporary antenna side mounted on our
tower. It's power rating is a fraction of the power we need to broadcast in
analog or digital.

So until the manufacturer in Maine completes their work and ships the main
antenna back, we're in limbo.

Very frustrating for us and VERY frustrating for our viewers.

To top that off, our AM transmitter blew up over the weekend and we were
off the air for 3 days until parts arrived and repairs made. "



So, I guess it will be awhile before we get any of the great PBS HD stuff...

What's going on with Fox 47? I'm only getting the "standard" digital channel (no widescreen) without 5.1. Hopefully this is only temporary.

I am in Shaftsburg (just outside of Haslett) and Get CBS, Fox, ABC out of Lansing great, but I get a big fat 0 for WILX on channel 57.

I have the largest winegard antenna and a Samsung T351 box. I would gladly buy someone a beer if they have any suggestions.

I am new to the HD box but people say channel 57-3 how do I tune 57-3 to my box when it only accepts 57?

Feel free to email me jeff@rsbiomedical.com

Originally posted by rsbiomedical
I am in Shaftsburg (just outside of Haslett) and Get CBS, Fox, ABC out of Lansing great, but I get a big fat 0 for WILX on channel 57. [/email] What do you mean you get ABC out of Lansing? :confused: What call letters are they indicating? I still haven't been able to get an ABC affiliate at my house......:(

I think he's getting WJRT out of Flint rather than Lansing or just the analog signal from WLAJ since they're not digital yet.

Originally posted by srgilbert
What do you mean you get ABC out of Lansing? :confused: What call letters are they indicating? I still haven't been able to get an ABC affiliate at my house......:(

:p Sorry I meant WJRT- Flint.

I recieve WLNS, WSYM, WJRT and receive WEYI at 5 bars but no sound or picture.

Am I having a Sub channel issue? THe green DTV light is lighting up when I tune to channel 57 (wilx)

Do you think a pre-amp would help?

What do you mean you get ABC out of Lansing?

So, how was that HD football game on ABC? Those of us stuck with WLAJ would like to know.

Originally posted by Chris White
What do you mean you get ABC out of Lansing?

So, how was that HD football game on ABC? Those of us stuck with WLAJ would like to know.

So good that my wife even sat down to watch:D

I also was receiving ABC out of grand rapids last night.

How about trading my ABC for your NBC?

I don't understand why you aren't getting WILX. You're just 10 miles further away from them than I am, and I'm getting almost a 100% signal.

Are any of you watching the US Open on WLNS? How does it look?

Yeah I too question why rsbiomedical can't get WILX-DT. I'm just west of Flint and I get their signal in the 90's all the time, kind of the reverse of him getting WJRT, that tower is about 15 mile NW of me.

To tune in the sub channels on my unit I punch in 57 then hit the right arrow to enter the sub channel in a second box. My unit is an RCA but I think all boxes have to have some form of this function since many DT channels have sub's. Time to drag out that manual and dust it off...

Originally posted by Matt L
Yeah I too question why rsbiomedical can't get WILX-DT. I'm just west of Flint and I get their signal in the 90's all the time, kind of the reverse of him getting WJRT, that tower is about 15 mile NW of me.

To tune in the sub channels on my unit I punch in 57 then hit the right arrow to enter the sub channel in a second box. My unit is an RCA but I think all boxes have to have some form of this function since many DT channels have sub's. Time to drag out that manual and dust it off...

I've read the manual end to end. What the receiver does to get subs is you go to the main channel and the subs automatically come in.

If anyone lives near here and would like to help me out, bring your receiver and fishing pole. Help me for 30 minutes then go fishing on my 38 acre private lake. Beer included.;)

I think my receiver has a problem. I was receiving WLNS in HD but now it's only SD, however I am receiving a Battle Creek CBS station in HD. Does the Samsung T351 have a master reset?

Can you turn off remapping? I never use it since several Detroit stations have bad PSIPs and screw it up. For WLNS I just punch in 59-1...

I assume you've done a rescan of the channels too, those two things repair most of the problems for me.

Not exactly a "banner" day for digital broadcasting in Lansing is it?

WLNS is currently not broadcasting the US Open in hi-def. I called and was told they are having "technical difficulties."

WSYM is not broadcasting in extended def. I don't care about the game, so I haven't bothered to call them.

Originally posted by Chris White
Not exactly a "banner" day for digital broadcasting in Lansing is it?

WLNS is currently not broadcasting the US Open in hi-def. I called and was told they are having "technical difficulties."

WSYM is not broadcasting in extended def. I don't care about the game, so I haven't bothered to call them.

I thought it was me! Channel 2 is up though. I managed to get WILX for about 5 seconds today so I think theres hope.

OT but why don't these receivers have an IR blaster to move the antenna?

The Lions game on Fox looked good even though it wasn't HD.

I installed my pre-amp today and receive channel ABC Flint at 90% and still receive it with the antenna pointed at 215, But guess what no WILX it must be a geographic thing. I am going to demo the new RCA receiver and see if anything changes. WLNS is still down as well.

I am still baffled as to why you aren't getting WILX. I'm also surprised at how strong you're getting ABC Flint. You are 10 miles closer to Flint than me, but I don't get anything from them. Nothing. Zilch.

Try enabling your FM trap filter on the preamp if it has one and if it doesn't, try putting on a FM trap. Maybe you have an FM station that is interfering. Not likely but something cheap to try. You should be able to get it.

Hello, fellow HDTV enthusiast

I live in Trappers Cove Apartments in Lansing.
Just recently i've got the HDTV bug so i bought a
HDTV card for my linux box from pchdtv.

The Good

Well, As is, I can get a fluxating signal from 59 CBS.
That's it, No order signal. The signal goes from 52% - 70% every sec or so. So bascilly i'm left with crisp slow moving images. It looks like i'm tring to play a DVD on 386.


My Setup

I've using a basic RS VHF/UHF antenna.

My problem

Signal fluxation , How can i get a stable signal?

What is the best type of antenna for my locataion?

Should I consider a preamp ? If so what type/brand/model?

I've order a double bow tie from RS but there on back order, so it'll be awhile.

I've allready tried using the RCA HDTV indoor antenna which was no better then my RS one.

Originally posted by mlcarson
Try enabling your FM trap filter on the preamp if it has one and if it doesn't, try putting on a FM trap. Maybe you have an FM station that is interfering. Not likely but something cheap to try. You should be able to get it.

I'm going to pick one up tommorow, this thing baffles me I get WEYI Saginaw at full strengh but no picture or sound and the digital lock light is on. I get Kazoo, Battle Creek, Grand Rapids, Detroit but still no NBC.

Kfowlks welcome to the club I wish I could help but I'm new to the game as well.

Can't help you on WEYI. I can't get a trace of it here in Holt but I can pick up a good WJRT-12 signal. Anybody having difficulty picking up WZPX-DT (PAX)? I normally get it but am having difficulty tonight.

WEYI doesn't know how to use it's equipment. It's been that way for months. I'd call them but I never watch them, if I think about it I will give them a call in the next day or two, it's not long distance for me.

mlcarson, Don't' know how an FM trap can help, unless you think an FM station is overloading the preamp, unlikely. All these stations are UHF, so FM should have 0 impact. I too was worried about overload when WEYI went on the air, I can see their tower from my window at night, but it's had no impact on my CM 77xx series preamp.

In case anyone doesn't know WJRT's tower is in Cheasening, north and west of Flint. WEYI 's tower is just east of I-75 and north of Clio ( 10 miles north of Flint)

Matt L,

Yes, you're right that it's unlikely that this is caused by an overloading of the preamp. I was thinking of my own NBC situation where I was trying to bring in Wood 7-Dt out of GR, which was VHF and very much affected by the local FM stations. His high numbered UHF station shouldn't be affected. I wonder if there's anything on the analog side that he can see via his conventional tuner as a cause of interference.

Also, I'd love to know what he gets if he reverses his antenna to point at 35 degrees...

Also, I'd love to know what he gets if he reverses his antenna to point at 35 degrees...

Are you being funny:D

I did a test at 269 degress last night and recieve the following

WOOD, WOTV, WXMT, WJRT, WLNS, WWMT, WSYM, WZPX, WXSP

This was at about 9 pm last night I will try the other direction tonight. I am going to demo an RCA tuner to see if any thing changes.

One thing that is very odd sometimes a station that I normally get just disappears when I tune to it, but when I change the channel and go back it comes in.

Nope, was serious about reversing it. 2 reasons -- wasn't sure if you knew which direction was forward on it, and a close station like WILX-DT could probably be picked up on the back side and at the same time may not pick up whatever is interfering with your reception. But the fact that you've picked up so many other stations including WWMT (which alludes me -- probably because I have a channel cut VHF for 7) proves that you know what your doing.

So what model of antenna are you using, and how high is it?

I am using a Wingard HD7084P. I have tried the back side of the antenna and still no dice. I think that I have a receiver issue or terrestrial. Anyone want to take me up on that beer and go fishing? We can swap receivers and see whats going on. The having to change channels to lock on to another seems fishy to me. I repair biomedical equipment and generally can figure equipment related issues out but I need a "known good" to verify my theory.

Again thank you all so much for your help, I know helping a Newbie like be can be a little irritating.

My house is at 886 Ft. So my antenna should be approx. 915 Ft.

Refresh my memory, where is Shaftsburg? I know I've seen signs for it before. Is it off 69 out by the airport? If that's the case, when you are pointing at 269 you must be getting WJRT off the back of the antenna.

It sounds like there might be some equipment problems if you loose a station and then re-tune to get it back. I'll be curious to see how you make out with the new RCA unit. You mentioned you get Detroit, which Ch.'s?

Yes I get WJRT off the back of the antenna:D I hope to get the receiver tonight since I have neck surgery Thurs. (3 herniated disc) and really won't be up to playing with it until the weekend.

Shaftsburg is in between Haslett and Perry south of I-69.

UPDATE:

I demo'd an RCA ATSC11 from Wilkins TV in Williamston I get channel 10 almost all of the way around the spectrum. I'm not a huge RCA fan but when the tire hits the road this is the cars meow I am pulling in even more stations than before.

This receiver is SOLD.

If I point my antenna at 235 I get CBS, NBC, PAX, ABC and Fox probably more but I've only had it running 30 minutes.

thanks all for your help.

rsbiomedical,

I suspected the RCA would work. As stated earlier in this thread, I had a problem with WILX with my Samsung too. I had to downgrade the firmware on it to make it work. This was a symptom of a problem with their Tandberg encoder which there was a fix out for. I e-mailed engineering about it and I never got a response so just took care of it on my side. Your symptoms are not identical but the fact that the RCA picked the signal up with such ease makes me wonder... If I had to do it over, I'd drop the idea of a console tuner altogether and go with a MyHD tuner card in a cheap PC. It gives you more options including that of a dual antenna input.

Great! Glad to hear the problems solved...

Hope the surgery goes well and you have a quick recovery.

Surgery went great, so now I have some time to get to know this RCA unit. Do RCA units normally have better tuners like in this case?

As for Detroit stations I will write them down this weekend I do know 1 is WKBD channel 50, also a CBS and Fox.

now time for CSI-HD any word on when WLNS will be getting their act together?

Originally posted by rsbiomedical
Surgery went great, so now I have some time to get to know this RCA unit. Do RCA units normally have better tuners like in this case?

As for Detroit stations I will write them down this weekend I do know 1 is WKBD channel 50, also a CBS and Fox.

now time for CSI-HD any word on when WLNS will be getting their act together? This is a pretty good page for locating stations and programming. http://www.hdpictures.com/sched.htm :)

I called WLNS tonight and they said they are working on it. How long has it been down? I was looking forward to the second part of Sunday's "Without a Trace" that was scheduled, but got another epp. instead. My TiVo shows the second part running Sunday, hope it's fixed by then.

Funny I was able to get CSI for quite a while tonight from Detroit in HD, it's been awhile since that has happened. Tried for PBS, still no luck.

Matt I have been watching WNEM Midland since WLNS went down that should be closer to you than me. I am not to sure about their picture quality though.

I'm sitting in a spot that allows me to get HD from 3 markets quite easily. I pretty much ignore the Flint, Saginaw, Bay City stations since they have an also-ran mentality. WNEM- HD only does up-converts, and the GM of the station made some disparaging remarks in a print article about us, the HD crowd, a few months ago --so they're off my list. WJRT insists on stretching everything that's not HD, again I object to that. WEYI has been up and running with their HD equipment for months, but have yet to get anything other than black on the HD feed, kind of a waste of $$. In case you didn't know prior to this WEYI never even bothered to go Stereo, "not enough of a market" according to them. OK.

I'd have no problem supporting these stations if they stepped up to the plate and did things right, as the Lansing and Detroit stations have done. And, the first PBS station that gets me a HD signal that I can consistently watch, will get my viewership and my donations...

Originally posted by Matt L

I'd have no problem supporting these stations if they stepped up to the plate and did things right, as the Lansing and Detroit stations have done. And, the first PBS station that gets me a HD signal that I can consistently watch, will get my viewership and my donations...

Ditto that why support a station that does the bare minimum?. I would like to see the article regarding us HDTV people by WNEM. God forbid someone actually admits they like TV.

It is a 'good' bet WKAR-TV, East Lansing, Mi will be in digital before Christmas of this year.

WLNS is back in HD but audio seems to be cutting out, is anyone else experiencing this or is it me?

You are exactly correct on the audio on WLNS digital. It is 'breaking up' By the way, let us send lots of e-mail to Channel 53, ABC, in Lansing to get with digital/HD soon!

I don't recall the whole article, as I said it was about 6 months ago, in it when the GM was questioned about why WNEM was only doing upconverts, he said something about wasting money on equipment that only a handfull of fanatics could use. OK, so I'm a fanatic....

I've been posting the updates I get from WKAR, a real great bunch of people. They have been very forthcoming with info -- always willing to answer my questions. They have been through an ordeal and I hope they get everything up and running soon. I should be able to get WTVS-DT from Detroit, but our "friends" at WZPX killed that for me. As I said 3 markets but no PBS. Bah!

Well tried watching WLNS for SEC football today and didn't know they were down...shoot. I'll try and tune in Detroit. Anymore word on when they'll be back up?

Well I was getting ready to call WLNS and it just went HD for the game. Only 45 min late.

WZPX, I'm sorry, but as chief engineer at WZPX, there are a few points I need to make.
The problem you have is due to what I consider a channel assignment screw up at the FCC.
My analog channel 43 has been on the air for 7 years, long before the DTV sign on, and in effect, I do not interfere with them they interfere with me!
My digital channel is actually operating at slightly reduced power, and the interference level with Detroit will never get any better. Again this assignment was made by the FCC not WZPX and I am just as prone to their interference as they are to mine.
My DTV has been on the air for over two year and the stations in Detroit could have measured my signal levels and requested either a channel reassignment of other remedies had they wanted.
The transition from analog to digital is not easy for any of us, either viewers or operators.
I understand your investment in equipment and your desire for perfect pictures, however we as broadcasters, have a considerable investment in the technology also, and remember, the DTV assignments were for the most part given to us and not requested so until the analog signals are turned off, these problem will only get worse, not better.
My signals, are checked for frequency accuracy monthly, and my power is calibrated semi annually.
Please do not blame my station fr the interference, put the blame on the source..... our regulators in Washington, who made these channel assignments.

Dick Castanie CE
WZPX TV 43 DTV 44
dick@paxmidwest.com

The digital stations involved in a conflict of assignments should make their plight known to powers-to-be in Washington and, if at all possible, get the situation corrected. Two of my Detroit stations are knocked out for me while other Detroit stations come in at 100 percent. I can receive the networks from 3 markets but that is not the point here. Stations that interfere with one another should be corrected as soon as possible.

I understand your plight and I believe the position in Washington is that since you do not reside in the Detroit DMA whether you get those stations or not is not the issue, you can receive the Lansing/Jackson DMA stations which provide local service to you.

I am sympathetic to your situation, however as a broadcaster, I live by the legal and technical constraints, we do not make the rules, we just abide by them. And moving a station from one frequency to another is no simple matter!

Shortly your local PBS station, one of the most respected in the nation, will sign on with programming and you will then be able to receive all the major networks in DTV.

I was not really speaking for my situation which, in fact, is excellent. But, for others, the situation of stations interferring with one another, may keep certain persons in certain areas from viewing their favorite programs. I fully realize that mistakes can be made. But, in many cases, they can be corrected. I receive Detroit, Flint, and Lansing area stations. I receive 15-1, 15-2, 15-3, 15-4 PBS by the way.

I understand, however as I stated in my first post, until the analog stations are turned of and broadcasters are given the opportunity to move back to their old channels, this will be a fact of TV life for the near future.

An old tradition is the first station on the channel must be protected by all other to come on line at a later date. This can be resolved with directional antennas and power settings, but must be mandated by FCC, a station rarely will voluntarily restrict its signal.

I believe that WZPX occupied 43 and 44 before any of the Detroit channels signed on hence if there is any protection to be afforded, it should be to us. I am aware that the programming Pax offers has a limited appeal, but programming is not a criteria for protection.

I guess what it boils down to, is that by the time all the legal hassling wandered thru the federal system, the problem will pretty much resolve itself.

And I do pretty much understand the situation. But, in this case, as you stated, the FCC did make an error. And, perhaps, this error should try to be corrected. At least, I trust the FCC has been made aware of this error..many times over. I understand one of the stations is analog . But are there 2 digital stations interferring with one another?
Anyway, as stated, I receive many digital stations so no direct complaining from this guy..for me, at least. Anyway, enough of this; let us enjoy what we have for our digital/HD viewing pleasure.

Dick, thanks for your input, I understand your point, and from your standpoint it's justified. But on the other hand were you not advised of the channel assignments too? If it's causing you a problem why did you not raise a flag? I do not know who is to blame, but I took out my aeronautical map of Michigan the other day and measured the location of your tower in Woodland to WTVS/WWJ's tower in Detroit, it appears to be 85 miles. As I understand the FCC guidelines DT stations were to be separated by 125 miles, how did this happen? Did I mis-measure? Regardless, I AM in WTVS's grade B contour and supposedly not in yours, yet I get your signal at 95 on my RCA unit, WTVS at 22. Also I rarely see WWJ. I am also aware that much of northern Oakland County cannot get WTVS due to WZPX, that I see as a real issue. I am not privy to the inner workings of the FCC or WZPX, WTVS and WWJ, but I think it would be in everyone's interest, especially those of us caught in the middle, for this group to work something out.

I know from discussions with engineers at other stations that you can control your broadcast pattern, is that something that has been discussed? Perhaps I'm spoiled, in my location I have always had access to 3 or 4 markets and have enjoyed the broad spectrum of programming available to me on all those stations, now I feel my selections are being limited.

Funny you should mention WKAR, in correspondence with the station manager there he informed me that are are required to operate on reduced power with their digital transmitter so as not to interfere with a Canadian station. That station is double the distance between you and the Detroit stations.

Originally posted by tpatt
Well I was getting ready to call WLNS and it just went HD for the game. Only 45 min late.

SEC Football is in HD? I don't recall seeing this in Titian are there any others I am missing.

Originally posted by rsbiomedical
SEC Football is in HD? I don't recall seeing this in Titian are there any others I am missing.

The SEC announcement was pretty last minute. Other than the ESPN-HD and CBS SEC game there isn't much other HD college. Pros of course have the game of the week if we get it locally (actually watching PHI vs NE in HD on WLNS right now) from CBS and the ESPN Sunday night and Monday Night ABC HD.

It sure would be nice if someone at WLNS would throw the switch so we could see the Georgia-LSU game in HD. Doesn't it seem like that should be someone's responsibility?

Is it me or is Wilx in SD?

WILX and others do up-converts when weather info is superimposed, they don't have the capability to put the map for warnings/watches on a HD signal. I was able to watch NBC HD on WDIV which somehow forgot to put up the warning on their HD feed. ED looked great as usual, West Wing looked good but a little soft, L&O was fine as usual. I switched over to WILX after 9 PM and the watches expired and they were HD at that point.

Posting here since Jackson is in Lansing's market:

Got Channel Master 3678 w/preamp installed yesterday and am picking up the following digital with my Samsung SIR-T165:

WILX (NBC - Lansing)
WLNS (CBS - Lansing)
WOTV (ABC - Battle Creek)
WSYM (Fox - Lansing)

At night, I was able to pick up the NBC and Fox stations from Detroit. Was bummed that I couldn't pick up more from there (especially WKBD-UPN). The antennaweb.com site was too optimistic about what what I could pick up at my address. Part of it might be channel conflicts as well. The 43/44 Pax issue was raised earlier, and I also think that the ABC Detroit affiliate's digital channel (WXYZ DT-41) conflicts with the analog WOTV's signal (also 41).

Anybody notice any testing or have any word on whether these stations will meet the 11/1/03 live date currently on antennaweb.org:

WHTV-DT 34
WKAR-DT 55

WKAR's been mentioned a few times in this thread but I don't remember much if anything on WHTV.

I sent an email to WKAR-DT this morning asking for a progress report. I'll pass along their response.

It didn't take long for WKAR to reply. Here's the email:

Our DTV transmitter is about 95% installed, there is only some RF
plumbing work in the building to do, then turn-on and testing. Well,
that's the good news.

The bad news is that on May 17th of this year, our six month old
antenna, that we would have used for NTSC and DTV burned up.
It burned out so bad, that the manufacturer is building us a new
antenna of a different model to replace it.

That replacement antenna is scheduled to arrive in November.
We're in process of scheduling a crew. As soon as the antenna
can be installed, we'll be able to go on the air with DTV.
--
Gary W. Blievernicht
Broadcasting Services
Michigan State University
212 Communication Arts & Sciences Building
East Lansing, MI 48824 - 1212
garyb@wkar.msu.edu
phone (517) 432-9527
phone (517) 432-3120 X 201
fax (517) 353-7124

Here is there DT-o-meter

http://wkar.org/dt/dtometer/

rsb..

Thanks for info. It is about the same as I have been told. I, now, receive 15-1, 15-2, 15-3, and 15-4 PBS from Bad Ax. They are only in DT and not in HD at this point. HD is what we really need. I do get digital PBS from Detroit. I would say by sometime after first of year, we will have HD from WKAR.

magic, refresh my memory, where are you located? I haven't got a blip on 15, but I can't say I've tried lately. I'd love to get WTVS but it's not going to happen. I do think I will file a complaint with the FCC, though odds of it doing any good are slim.

Did anyone notice that Fox47 had the HD game on following the Lions? Also has Wilx done something I am receiving them 25% stronger all of the sudden.

Originally posted by rsbiomedical
Did anyone notice that Fox47 had the HD game on following the Lions? Also has Wilx done something I am receiving them 25% stronger all of the sudden. I don't know about that, but I was able to get WJRT for the first time last night! Had to raise the antenna by another 2 feet, and messed around with the coax connections. Funny thing was, the best signal I got was 6%, but it was a solid 6% and stayed locked on all evening, first time I got to see Alias in HD! :)

Originally posted by rsbiomedical
Did anyone notice that Fox47 had the HD game on following the Lions? Also has Wilx done something I am receiving them 25% stronger all of the sudden.

Fox47 had the Packers/Seahawks game in widescreen at 1:00. The Lions game was not widescreen, but since it ended early, they switched to the last few minutes of the Redskins/Eagles game which was widescreen (not a real HD picture though).

Given the way the Lions are playing, I doubt that anyone is going to go through the trouble of showing any of their games in widescreen/HD this season....

Don't know what to say about WILX. I live less than 15 miles from the transmitter, so I've always gotten a strong signal from them.

Also has Wilx done something I am receiving them 25% stronger all of the sudden.

I didn't notice because I get them at 100%, but I've read there will be extensive solar activity for the next few weeks so you can expect some unusual readings.

WHTV to my knowledge has not even ordered DTV equipment.

I also noticed that I the WILX signal is coming in much stronger; it also seems to be more consistent.

I also noticed that I the WILX signal is coming in much stronger; it also seems to be more consistent.

Originally posted by lied
I also noticed that I the WILX signal is coming in much stronger; it also seems to be more consistent.

They certainly have done something because even my POS 6000u tuner gets it and does not cut out!

Originally posted by pax43
WHTV to my knowledge has not even ordered DTV equipment. www.antennaweb.org shows them to be live on November 1st, what more can you tell us? Would be nice to have UPN affiliate now that Enterprise is in HD.

I already sent them an email a couple of days ago, but no response. Nothing on their website either about HD either.

Anyone else willing to bug them can try these two addresses...

General Information: whtv@whtv18.com
Station Manager: Lori Harper lorih@whtv18.com

:)

I'm getting audio dropouts, like motor-boating, during the SEC game (450pm). It' really annoying. Is everyone else hearing this? I don't think it's just me because I don't get it with WILX or WSYM. I also didn't get it with last night's Jag.

Originally posted by Chris White
I'm getting audio dropouts, like motor-boating, during the SEC game (450pm). It' really annoying. Is everyone else hearing this? I don't think it's just me because I don't get it with WILX or WSYM. I also didn't get it with last night's Jag. Yeah, I noticed that too as I was flipping by it this afternoon.

I dropped a note to Tim Zelco at WKAR about their transmitter and here's his reply...




Interesting timing of your email. Also in my inbox this morning was the
following update from our chief engineer Gary B.

"The replacement antenna is scheduled to be delivered the week of
November 17, 2003. The crew will be coming from Omaha,
Nebraska they are expected to arrive here 11/17 as well.

We've asked Dielectric and SpectraSite to expedite delivery and
installation to the maximum extent safely possible to minimize the
impact on our TV pledge drive which starts the following week."

Also there was this additional message from Gary:

"We have received confirmation from Dielectric Communications
that our replacement channel 23 (and 55) antenna is nearing
completion and is scheduled to be shipped to us the week of
November 17th.

We have scheduled a tower crew in that week to accept delivery
and begin expedited installation onto our tower.

Antenna installation is not easy. The antenna will be top mounted
972 feet above the ground. The new antenna weighs about 9,000
pounds and is 45 feet long.

Here are some of the major steps involved in this project:

Rig tower with cables and pulleys
Remove emergency channel 23 antenna at the 850 ft level
Rig tower with additional cables and pulleys
Begin hoisting a "gin pole" and move it to the top of the tower
Hoist the new antenna into position
Connect the antenna into the main feed line, move beacon light
and lightning protection to the top of the antenna.
Tune the antenna for optimum performance on channel 23 and 55
Remove gin pole
Remove rigging

During the construction, WKAR-TV will, once again, operate from
an emergency antenna at the 500 foot level on the tower at
substantially reduced power. Unfortunately, even with expedited
scheduling, we're looking at about two weeks.

WKAR-FM will also be affected, and likewise will have to operate
from an emergency antenna at reduced power.

After an acceptable tuning, WKAR-TV will be able to resume full
power operation on channel 23.

For those of you wondering when WKAR-DT will be signing on;
we're in process of scheduling an engineer from the transmitter
manufacturer and hope to be able to sign on as soon as two weeks
after the antenna is in operation.

Thank you for your patience."


This message should be posted on the website anytime.

While testing may begin in November and continue into December, there is ongoing
discussion here now that that our OFFICIAL WKAR-DT sign on might not be until
January 15, 2004.

This date is our official 50th Anniversary of the first WKAR-TV analog broadcast
day in 1954. It would be something to sign on the digital station 50 years TO THE
DAY of the original station sign-on. Great promotion potential.

Anyway, that's an idea under discussion and not set in stone. It would be pretty cool
though.

Thanks for staying in touch.




Tim



so, it looks like it will be awhile.

Thanks for the update Matt.

According to the FCC:

All commercial stations were required to construct their DTV facilities by May 1, 2002. "Stations requesting extensions of their DTV deadline are required to demonstrate that failure to construct has been due to circumstances either unforeseeable or beyond their control. Moreover, stations must show construction progress since the grant of their last extension. Stations that fail to explain their inability to meet their DTV construction obligation will be subject to the recently-adopted DTV remedial measures including admonishment, forfeiture and reporting requirements."

As reported in FCC 03-250 (released October 23), WLAJ was granted a six-month extension [their third extension] because they "are either awaiting final processing on modification applications or requests for STA, or they only recently received a grant of a modification application and the station has had insufficient time to complete construction."

The 6 month extension is from October 23.

thanks for keeping an eye on things Chris, I wonder what WLAJ's reason is today. I noticed that Tivo has dropped channel 12 from the program guide for lansing market area, I bet WLAJ has something to do with it.

Have you noticed audio cutouts on WLNS?

rs, Are you referring to last night's shows, such as Still Standing and Raymond? Yes.

I finally have something to report on my FusionII setup with a roof-mounted Televes DAT75 UHF antenna on a CM rotator. It took me about a month to get it all together, but appears to be working, more-or-less.

Signals I picked up at 5:30pm on Sunday, October 26:
WLNS 59 100%
WSYM 38 100%
WZPX 44 100%
WOTV 20 99%
WILX 57 99%
WJRT 36 72%
WXMI 19 65%

The first 5 stations, I could get reasonably well when the antenna tripod was in one of my second floor rooms. WOTV, WILX signal strength went up 15 - 20% on the roof, plus I added WJRT and WMXI. If I had VHF, could probably get WOOD. No luck with Detroit stations, probably because I am right against woods on my south and SE sides.

Geordon

Goodmorning, and thank you all for the Lansing, info. I work at MSU and called Gary B. @ WKAR this morning and he indicated even with the work involved,a December 1-st projected up and running date. Hope all goes well on the antenna install.
Also I have been experiencing numerous audio dropouts also on WLNS. Looked at Survivor breifly last night and it was doing the same. I e-mailed Mike H. (chief eng.) at station but have not heard back from hime yet. If I find anything out today, will post.

Have a great weekend and-------------GO STATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

John

I noticed SVU was in 4:3 last night. I know it wasn't a rerun so did somebody at WILX forget to "throw the switch" ??

Looks like WILX is not doing HD tonight.

It's 9:19 I just called them lets see what happens.

2 minutes and they ficked the switch.

Originally posted by rsbiomedical
It's 9:19 I just called them lets see what happens.


I can see it now....
"Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.................snort.........RINN NNNNGG!!!, Huh?, what the...? WILX, can I help you?"

Originally posted by srgilbert
I can see it now....
"Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.................snort.........RINN NNNNGG!!!, Huh?, what the...? WILX, can I help you?"

My wife sure got a kick out of it:cool:

Got another update from Tim at WKAR, things are looking up...


[QUOTE]New Antenna Update!
The antenna installation crew arrived on site Tuesday (11/11), one day earlier
than scheduled.

Beginning Thursday (11/13), there will be occasional outages on both WKAR-
TV and WKAR-FM as required for human safety when the crew is near the
antenna.

The antenna is scheduled for delivery on Friday (11/14).

WKAR TV will remain at reduced power (100,000 watts from 500 ft) until
the new antenna is operational. Unfortunately, even with expedited
scheduling, we're looking at about two weeks.

WKAR-FM will also be affected, and likewise will have to operate from an
emergency antenna at reduced power.

Weather permitting, work will be completed and after an acceptable tuning,
WKAR-TV and FM will return to full power before Nov. 27.
Antenna installation is not easy. The antenna will be top mounted 972 feet
above the ground. The new antenna weighs about 9,000 pounds and is 45 feet
long.

Here are some of the major steps involved in this project:

- Rig tower with cables and pulleys
- Remove emergency channel 23 antenna at the 850 ft level
- Rig tower with additional cables and pulleys
- Begin hoisting a gin pole and move it to the top of the tower
- Hoist the new antenna into position
- Connect the antenna into the main feed line, move beacon light and lightning
protection to the top of the antenna.
- Tune the antenna for optimum performance on channel 23 and 55
- Remove gin pole
- Remove rigging

For those of you wondering when WKAR-DT will be signing on " we hope to
be able to sign on for DTV testing as soon as two weeks after the antenna is in
operation. Maybe in time for a "Merry Christmas"? We hope so!

Visit WKAR.org for updates on our progress.
Thank you for your patience.
If you would prefer NOT to receive update information like this, please let me
know and I'll remove you from our email list.
Timothy W. Zeko[QUOTE]

Maybe we should form a phone pool (like car pool) and take turns calling WILX to remind them to turn on the HD feed. :)

Thanks for the update Matt.

Originally posted by Chris White
Maybe we should form a phone pool (like car pool) and take turns calling WILX to remind them to turn on the HD feed. :)

Thanks for the update Matt.

I guess when something that's supposed to be HD is'nt wake them up.

Sunday's episode was shown in 4:3. Apparently the person in charge of "throwing the switch" must go home before 10pm some nights.

Let's just hope that doesn't happen tonight at 10pm on WLNS or I will be unhappy. :)

Hello,

Was wondering if anyone else in the Lansing area was experiencing audio problems with CBS channel 59.With last nights programming the audio was dropping in and out at a very fast rate--annoying. It has done this on other evenings but not every night. I called Corey the chief engineer at WLNS and to his knowledge there was not an equipment problem nor has he had any other complaints.
My other stations come in fine in HD with no audio problems, so now I am a little stumped, as to the problem, and if it is me. Thanks for any information you can pass my way.

John

WLNS does a have a problem with audio dropouts. It comes and goes. I can't believe they're not aware of it.

Chris:

Thank you for confirming that this problem exists. I had e-mailed them a couple of times over the past six weeks, but did not hear back. I was not aware that Mike Holcomb had left the chief Eng. position to work at MSU. I spoke on the phone with Corey who is now the chief engineer and Mike has been gone for over a year. Mike was very good about providing information "good and bad" as they went to HD and the future upgrades with antenna and amplifiers.
I guess he needs to hear more complaints about this, but did tell me he was going to put something in writing and they would monitor the situation. I thank you again for your response and have a great day!

John

Yeah, it's been annoying for the last few weeks, didn't notice it tonight, I guess you complaint did some good.

Yes, I did not have any audio problems either. Also had another e-mail from Cory this AM, saying they would be watching for this problem. Thats good news. Thanks for your feedback.

John

I noticed that antennaweb.org is showing that WLAJ is currently testing -- anybody know if they are, or is this just a mistake? Last month they listed WHTV-DT as being ready in November and now they're back in the "under review" category so I'm not too confident in their status displays.

Also, anybody notice that WZPX is now broadcasting 4 channels -- this is from memory but I think they were PAX,PAX-W,Worship, and Faith.

Originally posted by mlcarson
I noticed that antennaweb.org is showing that WLAJ is currently testing -- anybody know if they are, or is this just a mistake? Last month they listed WHTV-DT as being ready in November and now they're back in the "under review" category so I'm not too confident in their status displays.

Also, anybody notice that WZPX is now broadcasting 4 channels -- this is from memory but I think they were PAX,PAX-W,Worship, and Faith.

I have no clue what WLAJ is up to, but I have received all 4 channels from WZPX.

Is anyone interested in lobbying channel 6 to use one the the channels for radar?

NO! Why steal bandwidth from one of the best CBS outlets around? I don't want to watch CSI with artifacts...

I'd love to see a live local radar on one of the stations.

Originally posted by Matt L
NO! Why steal bandwidth from one of the best CBS outlets around? I don't want to watch CSI with artifacts...

Very good point, lets try channel 47.

Last night I was getting video drop-outs on from WLNS, my signal is almost 100% and all other stations seem fine. Has anyone else experienced this?

Yes, I was having trouble with WLNS also. I had assumed that the problem was with my antenna not pointing in the optimum direction since the rotator's frozen in place, but the signal strength meter was good and did not fluctuate. I got audio distortions and severe picture freeze-ups and artifacts. Normally WLNS comes in fine, even with the antenna pointed where it is (about 60 degrees away from the station).

Thelaker..

It is best if you 'zero' in on the transmitter if at all possible. 60 degrees 'off' the station is too far off by the way. A good rotator is important in providing top performance from your system.

Noticed comments about WLNS audio and have discussed this a little on another thread.
I have been experiencing the same audio drop out problems as discussed and have spoke with Corey, their chief engineer via phone and also e-mail.
This has been going on for some time, but when I talked with him about three weeks ago he seemed unaware there was a problem. I indicated there was, and from all the other posts, it was not my equipment. He said he would put something in writing to the eng. dept and monitor it. About a week later (11/21/03), during "Joan of Arcadia" it was doing it again. I called the studio and asked for production eng. dept and spoke with an individual about this. He said he would check it out. It was apparent they were working on it as the aspect switched back and forth between 4x3 and 16x9 numerous times. The audio was only a problem in HD. At about 8:50 they had it corrected and the rest of the nights viewing was fine.
Since this time I have notice the same problem on certain evenings and have e-mailed their chief eng. I have done so again today. I, as the rest of you hope it is corrected soon as it makes it basically unviewable for me. I would think they would be monitoring there own HD feed to see if problems of any kind exist. The first six-twelve months they broadcast HD it seemed if I wanted to view it I would have to call and ask them to throw the pass through switch. But this is all new to a lot of people.
Anyway, if I get any new information will pass it along.

On another local note: WKAR has Jan 15-th as target date for HD programming. Per Gary B. chief eng. dated this morning. Everybody have a great week. GO STATE!!!!!!

John

Originally posted by thelaker
Yes, I was having trouble with WLNS also. I had assumed that the problem was with my antenna not pointing in the optimum direction since the rotator's frozen in place, but the signal strength meter was good and did not fluctuate. I got audio distortions and severe picture freeze-ups and artifacts. Normally WLNS comes in fine, even with the antenna pointed where it is (about 60 degrees away from the station).

I get WLNS with no drop outs 360 degrees even with my antenna zeroed I was getting video drop outs last night.

Hello,

I am a former Lansing resident who moved to Orlando in 1997. I was visiting relatives last weekend and arranged for a tour of the WKAR transmitter site to see the construction. If you would like see the snapshots please email me at

barry@orlandodigital.tv

I have 22 pictures reduced in resolution for a total of 3MB.

I sent you an email Barry.

Here are links to the pictures Barry took. The pictures average about 140k in size.

Antenna Shipping Containers (http://www.msu.edu/~cwhite/temp/antennashippingcontainers.jpg)

Channel 23 Filters (http://www.msu.edu/~cwhite/temp/channel23filters.jpg)

Channel 23 Transmitter (1) (http://www.msu.edu/~cwhite/temp/channel23transmitter1.jpg) (2) (http://www.msu.edu/~cwhite/temp/channel23transmitter2.jpg)

Channel 55 Combines With 23 (http://www.msu.edu/~cwhite/temp/channel55combineswith23.jpg)

Channel 55 Transmitter (1) (http://www.msu.edu/~cwhite/temp/channel55transmitter1.jpg) (2) (http://www.msu.edu/~cwhite/temp/channel55transmitter2.jpg) (3) (http://www.msu.edu/~cwhite/temp/channel55transmitter3.jpg)

Combiner Awaits Splice (1) (http://www.msu.edu/~cwhite/temp/combinerawaitssplice1.jpg) (2) (http://www.msu.edu/~cwhite/temp/combinerawaitssplice2.jpg)

Engineer Rick Thomas (http://www.msu.edu/~cwhite/temp/engineerrickthomas.jpg)

HD Satellite Receivers (http://www.msu.edu/~cwhite/temp/hdsatellitereceivers.jpg)

Jin-Pole (http://www.msu.edu/~cwhite/temp/jinpole.jpg)

Missing Mask Filter (http://www.msu.edu/~cwhite/temp/missingmaskfilter.jpg)

Waveguide Before Cutting (http://www.msu.edu/~cwhite/temp/waveguidebeforecutting.jpg)

More Waveguide Junctions (http://www.msu.edu/~cwhite/temp/morewaveguidejunctions.jpg)

WKAR Tower (1) (http://www.msu.edu/~cwhite/temp/wkartower1.jpg) (2) (http://www.msu.edu/~cwhite/temp/wkartower2.jpg)

WKAR Tower West Anchor (1) (http://www.msu.edu/~cwhite/temp/wkartowerwestanchor1.jpg) (2) (http://www.msu.edu/~cwhite/temp/wkartowerwestanchor2.jpg) (3) (http://www.msu.edu/~cwhite/temp/wkartowerwestanchor3.jpg) (4) (http://www.msu.edu/~cwhite/temp/wkartowerwestanchor4.jpg)

Wow, thanks Barry and Chris, it was interesting to see the pictures, thanks! Looks like some plumbers had a fair amount of work, I had no idea so much copper was used.

I must say that I have no idea how a transmitter works now, time to start reading. I was in communications in the Army and thought I knew how those worked but not anymore.

Thanks for the pictures!

We tried to watch Jag (recorded last Tuesday) last night and the audio was cutting out so bad that the show was completely unwatchable. Two other shows recorded Tuesday night played perfectly, so this problem was limited to WLNS. It seems to me their audio problems are getting worse.

I had the same problem with watching JAG...but I've been watching WLNS all night tonight with no problems.

12/9/03- WLNS NEWSCENTER 6 is experiencing technical difficulties with our HDTV audio on Ch. 59. We are working on the equipment and should have the signal back sometime Wednesday.

It seems like WLNS has the audio video problem taken care of. I did a quick scan and received WDCP PBS Bad Axe on 15-1-2-3-4 they are using the sub channels for Kids, News, babble and babble with FULL program guide VERY COOL! I also noticed WJRT has a pretty good weather radar on 12-3 (remapped).

Great things are happening!!!

Nice pictures, however a small inaccuracy

That is not waveguide it is coax.

At my transmitter I use both rectangular and circular 15 inch waveguide. That appears to be 6 inch coax.

Dick Castanie
WZPX TV 43/D44

Axcera is a good product also. It appears to be a solid state transmitter?

received WDCP PBS Bad Axe

That's amazing. Isn't that 70+ miles from you?

That is not waveguide it is coax.

Thanks for the correction Dick. I didn't know what any of that stuff was. :)

The WKAR analog transmitter looked like it used rectangular waveguide and that is the only term I had heard used at the transmitters I have toured in the past. Sorry for any confusion with the pictures.

Chris,

Perhaps you could arrange an engineering tour for those interested viewers after the transmitter goes on the air. It is much easier to grasp the technology with a engineer interactively explaining the process.

Originally posted by Chris White
received WDCP PBS Bad Axe

That's amazing. Isn't that 70+ miles from you?




I think its more than that, but I don't think there's even a mole hill between us.

If anyone is ever interested in seeing a Analog and DTV transmitter site, feel free to contact me I am always happy to show off my pride and joy.

5 Tube analog UHF
1 tube DTV
850 kw generator and 1000amp surge suppresser.

Dick Castanie
rcast@wzpxtv.com

Chief Engineer.

Originally posted by pax43
If anyone is evere interested in seeing a Analog and DTV transmitter site, feel free to contact me I am always happy to show off my pride and joy.

5 Tube analog UHF
1 tube DTV
850 kw generator and 1000amp surge suppresser.

Dick Castanie
rcast@wzpxtv.com

Chief Engineer.

You've got mail!

Originally posted by rsbiomedical
It seems like WLNS has the audio video problem taken care of. I did a quick scan and received WDCP PBS Bad Axe on 15-1-2-3-4 they are using the sub channels for Kids, News, babble and babble with FULL program guide VERY COOL! I also noticed WJRT has a pretty good weather radar on 12-3 (remapped).

Great things are happening!!!

UPDATE : It seems that most of us should recieve it because I pick it up with my antenna 50-60 off both ways. I was thinking about selling my RCA ATSC21 and getting a Hughes E86 until the HD Tivo comes out but with this kind of reception I think it might be a bad move.

This is totally unrelated to Local HDTV Info, but I don't know of a better place to query local residents.

I've been thinking about going to see LOTR: ROTK on Wednesday but don't know anything about any of the theaters in the area. Any recommendations?

Both Celebration Cinemas off of S. Pennsylvania and NCG at the Eastwood Towne Center are nice theaters. The other theatres in town are second rate compared to them.

Last night CSI and WAT both had audio problems, though not as pronounced as before. Anybody else noticed it?

Originally posted by usg
Last night CSI and WAT both had audio problems, though not as pronounced as before. Anybody else noticed it?

Yes

Me too.

I checked antennaweb.org, and they claimed that WHTV-DT was "Now Live". I checked and didn't find a signal. There is no mention of DTV on their website. Anyone know what's going on with them?

They haven't ordered equipment, no antenna, or equipment.
Plans are to upconvert NTSC to 480i to the best of my knowledge.

Originally posted by pax43
They haven't ordered equipment, no antenna, or equipment.
Plans are to upconvert NTSC to 480i to the best of my knowledge.

Oh great.... the minimal required upgrade. Guess I won't be seeing Enterprise in HD anytime soon.

Anybody heard of WKAR is on schedule for the Jan 15th broadcast date?

I am checking the thread to see if anyone noticed any testing I check it everyday and have not seen anything.

I finally started putting up some reception stuff on my website from myself and a few of my friends if anyone is interested...should give you an idea on what you can expect on channels.

http://www.vissers.net/HDTV.html

Happened to pickup signal when WKAR DT was testing on Monday. I picked up signal for about an hour, so appears they are ready to go on air this Thursday morning as indicated at their site.

I noticed channel 55 has been remapped to 23-1, 23-2, 23-3, 23-4 we watch alot of PBS and are happy to see the progess.

Yeah! Got 55-3 in solid a few minutes ago!!!

I'm recieving it at full signal, the dolby digital light is on but the screen is solid black.

I'm getting 16:9, on 55-3, Dolby 2.0 not 5.1. Looks like an upconvert of a nature show. Signal levels are about 90 on my RCA based equipment.

I'm getting full strength signal and jack squat for a picture.

Have you tried doing a rescan of your channels? The remapping may have messed something up.

Yes, and diddly.

I emailed Gary Blievernicht at WKAR and linked him to this forum. He stated that the only transmission was on 23-1.

Weird. I don't recall your equipment, is it Samsung? I wonder if it's something to do with WKAR's encoding. When I checked a while ago it was still coming in great.

Same thing here at Pleasant Lake, powerful signal but no video or audio.
It's 4:00PM.

At first had same problem - no picture with sporadic sound. Problem here was the RCA DTC-100. Went back in to HD receiver and had receiver rebuild channel list with the "Do not acquire off air Guides" checkmarked. If you have this "old" type receiver, just might work for you.

I have an RCA ATSC11 which I think is the same as the Samsung 351. Gary was nice enough to call me about the problem but I was not home I will give him a ring friday.

That's got to be a little disappointing. I learned early on not to use remapping, some of the Detroit sub channels showed up but reported "weak signal" after I did it, so I got used to punching in the actual number. I only watch HD OTA so I really don't want all the analog in my listings anyway so it's not too much of a problem. The only thing that bugs me is if I forget and punch up 41-1 when I have the antenna pointed at Lansing, i invariably get 41 analog from GR and I have to redo my channel scan to get back to 41 DT from Detroit. Not related to your [problem but I thought I'd share... :)

I'm picking up WKAR-DT here in Jackson. I'm pleasantly surprised given how this was supposed to be a low power station. Nice picture quality.

I'm using a Samsung T165 as my tuner, and there weren't any problems getting a signal lock.

Switched it on for the first time tonight after dinner, watched the last half of Smart Travels - Europe With Rudy Maxa Greek Islands and did it look great! Nice to finally have WKAR on the air. I am a little concerned with the programming schedual, looks a little thin!:)

Yeah, I thought the programming would be a bit better, I really wanted stuff like Soundstage. At this point I won't complain, I've been waiting 2 years for PBS HD, at least it's something.

Looks great on my Dish Network 811 OTA tuner. I wish the programming was better...but still looks great.

Still plenty of signal but no picture or sound here at Pleasant Lake. Anyone else who has a Samsung 151 having this problem?

I'm receiving a strong WKAR signal as well but no picture or sound. No problems with other Lansing area digital stations or WJRT out of Flint. Coincidently, I do have a Samsung SIR-T151 receiver. I've sent an e-mail to WKAR for their thoughts.

When some models of ATSC tuners work and others display only black and silence even though both show good signal strength and a lock, then 99 times out of 100 it is a problem with the broadcasters PSIP tables at the encoder. When the broadcaster finds a problem or simply resets the tables some tuners still require a channel rescan to find the new settings.

I received a reply from Gary Blievernicht at WKAR. They are working on some PSIP issues and think they have a fix. However, they won't be able to invoke them "for a little while."

I too get sound but no picture.

Sony SAT100 reciever. 97% signal.

Anything I can do? Or is it on KAR to fix it?

I noticed when I check the screen format it's flickering between 4:3 and 16:9. Kudo's to WKAR engineering though it's nice to see that the engineering staff takes an active role in customer help.

Because of that they are getting a BIG FAT donation from us this year.

Originally posted by Matt L
I'm getting 16:9, on 55-3, Dolby 2.0 not 5.1. Looks like an upconvert of a nature show. Signal levels are about 90 on my RCA based equipment. I've noticed that some programming is 2.0 and some is 5.1.

sawmill, rsbiomedical, Matt L

Thanks much for your posts regarding WKAR. I am having the same problem. Sound(off-on) black picture, signal strength 90. In the banner it comes up 23-2. Yesterday FOX, Lansing came up 38-5 and it has never done that. Watched the game on 19 out of GR.
I have a RCA--RTC-100 that I purchased approx four years ago and because of all the Pronto programming and other issues with projector have keep it and not upgraded. Was never sure how you hand enter a channel (23-1) into DirecTV receiver. I do not know why FOX all of a sudden came up 38-5 unless it is because I did a channel search when I had problems getting WKAR. Are they broadcasting on 23-1 and shouldn't receiver bring up the digital broadcast channel. Thanks for any help on this matter.
John

J.P., the Fox channel showing up as 38-5, is the actual channel it broadcasts on, just as 55-3 is what WKAR actually broadcasts on. In each signal there is information telling your receiver how to display the channel. I long ago abandoned the remapping feature on my RCA unit. I really only watch DT channels OTA so instead of punching in 23-3 I just punch in 55-3, it just amounts to a short learning curve.

At my location I get about 12-14 DT channels, Detroit, Lansing & Flint. Some of these channels do not know ( or care) how well their equipment works. Several of WXYZ-DT's channels won't display when remapped, and I also found my system clock changing all the time, since the receiver pulled that info off the PSIP ( the broadcast info stations send out). For example lets say it's 10:22 PM 1/19/04; as I change channels my system time goes to 10:08 PM, 11:55 PM, 8:02PM 5/22/00. Thing is it stayed incorrect until I connected to another channel that broadcast time info. Over the years there have been many threads on this topic, the FCC supposedly mandates that PSIP info is to be correct, but at this point no one really cares --but us.

I have to say if anyone gets this right it will be the folks at WKAR. I have to give them kudos for all the effort they have put into the upgrade, and their personal involvement with the viewers that are having problems.

As to your RCA unit, try turning off remapping, it's buried deep in one of the sub menus and do a rescan of the channels. See if this resolves your WKAR-DT problem, if so it is related to the PSIP info. To input a channel directly all you have to do is punch in the first two digits, ie. 55 (you should see 55 in the left most box on your screen), then hit the right arrow key - this should shift to the second box that displays next to the 55 and punch in 3, (or what ever); that's all there is to directly input DT channels. Give it a try and let us know if it solves your problem.

Has anybody tried to get WZPX? My Samsung receiver will only pick up stream1. My MyhD MDP-100 will also pick up stream 1 but will not get the audio from streams 2-4. I suspect since neither receiver is getting them correctly that it's probably a problem at their end. Can anybody else confirm this?


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by pax43
I know it isn't HDTV but as of noon today WZPX-DT44 is the first station in W. Michigan to broadcast 4 streams of programming

Stream 1 WZPX PAX/WB
Stream 2 PAX West Coast
Stream 3 WORSHIP Net
Stream 4 FAITH a service featuring old movies, and faith based programming.


More streams coming before the end of year.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just got a note from Tim at WKAR, thought I'd share...

Dear HD set owners:

Thank you for your recent emails to WKAR-DT. As you have discovered, our
PBS digital service to the mid-Michigan community began last week.

Some of you have been able to receive our signal with more success than
others. As we settle into this new technology, we are working out some of
the bugs and learning many new things.

First off, let me briefly address some of the bugs.

We began getting phone calls and emails last Thursday from HD set owners.
Some viewers said they were receiving our signal perfectly and others said
they couldn't get our signal at all.

The brands of HD sets themselves offered us some clues to help us
troubleshoot the problem.

It seemed viewers using Zenith, Videotek and Sencore digital receivers got
us just fine. Others using RCA, Samsung, and Sony did not.

According to WKAR chief engineer Gary Blievernicht, the Tandberg satellite
receivers that we use to pick up the PBS HD signal "remapped" some of the
elements in the "PSIP" and that "remapping" confused some HD set models.

A Sidebar: PSIP: Pronounced "P-SIP" is "Program and System Information
Protocol." A part of the ATSC (Advanced Television Systems Committee)
digital television specification that enables a DTV receiver to identify
program information contributed by content providers and use it to create
sophisticated electronic program guides.

Friday afternoon Gary and his engineers thought we had corrected the
problem, and viewers with RCA and Samsung receivers said it was working.

But then Friday evening, the fix failed. Gary and his crew contacted our
vendor, Heartland Associates.

In consultation with Heartland, we made the changes to our PSIP settings this
morning (Monday). One viewer with a Samsung receiver reports that our
signal is decoding properly on his set. This morning's changes may have done
the trick.

Our engineers are working very hard to learn as much as they can about this
new technology and apply that knowledge to our digital service. It's been a
yeoman task, but we think they are doing a terrific job.

Other information-
As those of you who can get our signal cleanly have no doubt noticed, we
have no on-screen identifier for WKAR-DT yet. Presently we are just
passing the PBS HD channel feed directly through the transmitter to our
antenna with no local content insertions.

We hope to be able to at least "bug" the signal within the next 4-6 weeks.
In this application, a "bug" is a good thing. It's the name of the
translucent lower corner call letters/logo used by broadcasters to
identify their signal.

It will be awhile longer before we can actually program the channel. That
is, record and rearrange the PBS programming and offer interstitial
content like full screen IDs, program promotion, local underwriters and
other public service information.

We have no immediate timetable for when these incremental changes will
occur. The equipment is ordered and will be installed over the next few
months as time and personnel availability allows.

With your permission, we'd like to keep your email address on file
to send periodic digital updates on our technical plant conversion and
upcoming HD broadcasts. If you would prefer NOT to receive any further DT
information from WKAR, please email us at dt@wkar.org and let us know.
We will certainly respect your wishes.

If you have any questions or comments about our DT service, please don't
hesitate to contact us at dt@wkar.org or by phone at 517-432-9527.

Technical questions may be directed to Gary Blievernicht. Non-technical
questions/comments may be sent to WKAR Executive Producer Tim Zeko.

Thanks for your interest in WKAR-DT. Happy viewing!Timothy W. Zeko
Executive Producer
WKAR-TV / WKAR.org
:

I'm getting WKAR now Wahooooo!!!

Matt L

Thanks for your reply. Would have answered sooner but have been suffering with a dental problem which was corrected yesterday. Wonderful!!
My header shows the channel as it is broadcast on when I enter 38 (Fox) 38-5, and 55 WKAR (55-3) so my receiver is displaying that channel. I will try entering as you suggested tonight, but have been watching Fox right along till last weekend and no picture. Did not try 55 last night but will again. This sure wreaks havoc with all the programming I have done on my Pronto! Gota Luv it..............Thanks again.

John

Since all the major networks are running re-reruns this week and next, maybe WKAR will give us some dazzling new hi-def programming to watch.

Matt L

Both WKAR and FOX came in last night. I had to reposition my antenna a few inches even for WLNS and they locked in fine. May have been the high winds. Thanks for your assistance.

John

John, glad to hear it! Do you have remapping on or off? If they have the PSIP at WKAR fixed you should be able to go back to your original settings and your programmed remote.

Matt L

I still am getting the header display so I guess it is on. Did not go into sub menu's to turn off. You are correct, I believe WKAR corrected their problem and Fox could have been no more than a transmision or amp glitch. I was hoping I would not have to make any changes as I have my channel programming (entering digital station) and Channelmaster antenna rotor station selection, to turn antenna (macro), all programed into Pronto with station icons for local on one page and Battle Creek, Kazoo, and GR, on another page. Makes it nice. I still like my RCA unit (DTC-100) and because I have a Seleco CRT projector its a good mate for both video inputs, and aspect settings. Thanks again, and looking forward to Super Bowl and Grammy's.

John

So I finally gave in and bought a Samsung OTA HD tuner since the Dish 811 is on inevitable backorder for god only knows how long.

Anyway, with just a silver sensor antenna I have picked up most of the key stations for the area with no dropouts. The Samsung receiver does not give a numeric signal, just shows some bars.

What I am receiving:
ABC 36 CBS 59 FOX 38 and PBS 55.

From out of the area:
CBS 22 (Saginaw, but not HD) PBS 15 (Bad Axe)

WHAT I AM NOT RECEIVING:
Any NBC, but I should get 57 out of lansing?
PAX from battle creek (44), but I think I may be too far away.

My question, is NBC 57 WILX broadcasting, does it come in regularly without problems. If this is the case I may need to look into an outdoor antenna. I live in Morrice which is between Lansing and Flint off I-69.

If you think I need an outdoor antenna, what kind of UHF antenna would you recommend?

Thanks for any input from you guys, the area experts.

Hi and welcome to the club, WILX is hard to get around here, I am in Shaftsburg and had to invest in a monster antenna to get WILX. You might be able to get WEYI out of Saginaw, all I get is a blank screen @ 80% signal and have heard many similar reports.

Also I had the Samsung 351 that did not do it with the new antenna as well, the only one that received WILX was the RCA which I am told is the exact same chip and guts as the Samsung. You are welcome to take it home try it out if you would like.

Hmmm, thought I posted here, guess not! For some reason WILX is a bit on the weak side for me the last time I tuned in. Normally hit 80 on my RCA, last week was lucky to get 40, switched over to WDIV for ED because WILX didn't flip the switch. I'll check them out today, hope they are back to full power, if that is what the problem was....

Originally posted by rsbiomedical
You might be able to get WEYI out of Saginaw, all I get is a blank screen @ 80% signal and have heard many similar reports.


Samsung receivers will not lock onto the WEYI signal because WEYI is not sending out the PSIP info that the Samsung receiver expects. I spoke with the engineer at WEYI and he said they are meeting all of the current FCC standards. I spoke with Samsung tech support and they blamed WEYI. I haven't been able to get any help with this issue. Apparently other brand receivers will lock onto the signal without the expected PSIP info.
I am able to receive WEYI with my Dish 811 receiver on channel 30-1 and 30-2. This is a little strange though because the Engineer at WEYI told me they were broadcasting on 30-3 and 30-4. Does any body receive them on those sub channels?

Originally posted by rsbiomedical
had to invest in a monster antenna to get WILX.
Also I had the Samsung 351 that did not do it.

What kind of antenna are you using? I've been looking at some of the UHF yagi style that are about 6' long roofmounted. I thought about using a rotor, but if I face it towards Lansing and it still happens to pick up WJRT from Chesaning, then I may not need a rotor.

The Samsung 351 has been very disappointing and WILL be going back just as soon as I can find a Dish Network 811 receiver somewhere, I guess they have a long backorder list. I noticed a Samsung 151 on clearance the other day for under $200 and still don't think it would be worth it.

Originally posted by rnctheba
Samsung receivers will not lock onto the WEYI signal because WEYI is not sending out the PSIP info that the Samsung receiver expects.
I am able to receive WEYI with my Dish 811 receiver on channel 30-1 and 30-2. This is a little strange though because the Engineer at WEYI told me they were broadcasting on 30-3 and 30-4. Does any body receive them on those sub channels?

This would explain part of the problem, the receiver may not even see it even if there is a signal. I can receive channel 10 WILX & 25 WEYI clearly in analog with either antenna I have tried. Is this a reasonable way to determine if I should at least receive some signal?

Off hand, did you get the 811 receiver locally, if so, from who, I have been calling several places including dish directly with no success in finding one. Is the 811 working good for receiving local HD?

Originally posted by masterdeals
What kind of antenna are you using? I've been looking at some of the UHF yagi style that are about 6' long roof-mounted. I thought about using a rotor, but if I face it towards Lansing and it still happens to pick up WJRT from Chesaning, then I may not need a rotor.

The Samsung 351 has been very disappointing and WILL be going back just as soon as I can find a Dish Network 811 receiver somewhere, I guess they have a long backorder list. I noticed a Samsung 151 on clearance the other day for under $200 and still don't think it would be worth it.

I'm using the Winegard 8200P but I think I could get away with a good Omni directional antenna. I tried several receivers and picked the RCA because it was the only one that picked up WILX, There are several dish 811's available on Ebay. Let me know when you're in the area and I will be glad to show you my set-up.

Originally posted by masterdeals
This would explain part of the problem, the receiver may not even see it even if there is a signal. I can receive channel 10 WILX & 25 WEYI clearly in analog with either antenna I have tried. Is this a reasonable way to determine if I should at least receive some signal?

Off hand, did you get the 811 receiver locally, if so, from who, I have been calling several places including dish directly with no success in finding one. Is the 811 working good for receiving local HD?

My Samsung receiver would show signal strength when tuned to channel 30 but would not lock on to the signal. So manually tune to channel 30 (WEYI-DT) and look at the signal strength meter.

I got my 811 free from Dish Network. I called them on 22 De 2003 and they scheduled an installer for 05 JA 2004. No one locally seems to be able to get them because of the demand. I live in Davison and the installer came from the Detroit area. I had to agree to subscribe to one of there packages plus the HD package for one year to get the free 811(included installation and the new super dish). I don't know if they still have the same offer going.

Originally posted by rnctheba
My Samsung receiver would show signal strength when tuned to channel 30 but would not lock on to the signal. So manually tune to channel 30 (WEYI-DT) and look at the signal strength meter.


Hey this is great, 30 locked in tonight just at random. I tried the same exact thing last night and had no signal, tonight perfect signal. Odd that I pick up 30 perfect but can't pick up 10/57 from Lansing.

But hey, this is great asumming the networks keep the signal up regularly, I'm picking up all 5 networks with just a $39 silver sensor indoor antenna. I couldn't have hoped for better, now I just need a decent receiver...

Thanks for the help guys!

Originally posted by rnctheba
Samsung receivers will not lock onto the WEYI signal because WEYI is not sending out the PSIP info that the Samsung receiver expects. I spoke with the engineer at WEYI and he said they are meeting all of the current FCC standards.

Typical BS from WEYI. They are extremely low budget, I have no idea why they even invested in HD stuff if they can't run it properly. Much like other Flint/Saginaw stations. WNEM refuses to do HD: "There's no market, just a bunch off people we dont care about", or some quote along those lines, WJRT feel everyone likes to look at short fat people so they stretch everything, WFUM and WSMH -MIA, but WSMH is Sinclare, enough said.

You have no idea how thankful I am to have a great bunch of Lansing and Detroit stations that care and do things right, unlike the idiots at all the Mid-Michigan stations.

Originally posted by Matt L
Typical BS from WEYI. They are extremely low budget, I have no idea why they even invested in HD stuff if they can't run it properly. Much like other Flint/Saginaw stations. WNEM refuses to do HD: "There's no market, just a bunch off people we dont care about", or some quote along those lines, WJRT feel everyone likes to look at short fat people so they stretch everything, WFUM and WSMH -MIA, but WSMH is Sinclare, enough said.

You have no idea how thankful I am to have a great bunch of Lansing and Detroit stations that care and do things right, unlike the idiots at all the Mid-Michigan stations.

My sentiments exactly! When you call them they have the most condescending attitude I have encountered in the field. Why? Because their boss doesn't care and they can get away with it. Maybe a couple FCC complaints will open their eyes even if they are in compliance they will have to answer the complaint which will take time and money, and maybe open their eyes.

This is a text book example how lack competition hurts the consumer. If only they had the same attitude as WKAR. With a record amount of HDTV's to be sold this year I bet they will be getting it together.


That's my .02

Odd that I pick up 30 perfect but can't pick up 10/57 from Lansing.

That is odd. Where are you located masterdeals? I live in Williamston and get WILX at almost 100% signal strength. On the other hand, I pointed my antenna towards Flint and didn't even get a blip from any station there.

Originally posted by Chris White

That is odd. Where are you located masterdeals? I live in Williamston and get WILX at almost 100% signal strength. On the other hand, I pointed my antenna towards Flint and didn't even get a blip from any station there. [/B]

I live over east of Perry, but am only using an indoor silver sensor antenna. I will plan to install an outdoor UHF antenna once the snow melts and we warm up a little. I am getting NBC from Saginaw though. I guess WILX is somewhat south of Lansing so it may be harder to pick up for me than the other Lansing stations.

yes but WNEM form Saginaw only does SD, they really dislike those of us that have HD. I'd pick up a good antenna and set it up on a patio or deck, you can always mount it higher when it warms up. NBC doesn't have a lot of great Hd but it does have enough to make me want to see it. WILX puts out a fairly strong signal so you might be able to get it with an antenna in your attic also, something to think about...

Hey All,

I am about to move to East Lansing in Feb 2004, my house will be right by the intersection of State and Abbott/Chandler roads (its right by that big outdoor aquatic center).

Can anyone who might live in that area tell me how far away we are from getting Comcast Cable (or whatever cable company services this area) to putting HD thru the lines?

Also are there any HD G2G's or Groups in the Lansing/ East Lansing area?
When I lived in Palatine IL I hosted and attended quite a few and they were alot of fun to see others equipment and just learn tweaks and tips of all kinds...

I plan on bringing my OTA antenna (a radio shack 80 boom) and HOPE I can point and grab a few local HD things in that area until or unless the local cable company does hd thru the lines.

Might do dish again I dunno, but will be reading the many posts in this thread more tomorrow (have read the first few pages so far), just thought I would post before heading to bed here...

Bill :)

I live over east of Perry

Okay. Now I understand.

Hey Bill. I can't tell you anything about Comcast, but I can tell you that for your new location you probably won't need anything more than an indoor antenna to get the digital broadcasts for NBC, CBS, and FOX. To get ABC, you would need an antenna good enough to pick up either Grand Rapids or Flint.

Chris,

Wow that is encouraging info! (Prob wont even need my 80 inch boom)

And thanks for the reply - nice www of your home theater setup too!

I think the worst part about this move is gonna be all the wires and hookups and then PRAYING nothing happens to my 65 inch Mitsu during the move, bummer I had a full ISF visit too, so much for dead on geometry and convergence...

Only been to East Lansing for 3 days to go check out the jobsite for my wifes future community yet sure seemed like a cool town and area, hopefully there are a few specialty stores that cater to the Home Theater Geek in me!

I was spoiled living in Palatine IL for so long, all sorts of custom and specialty stores all within a short drive of me, here Indiana (Valpo area) we have nothing so East Lansing can't be as bad as this place is currently, for me it's Mail Order or Best Buy - that's about it really.

Bill :)

Bill,

Welcome to Spartan land. You will definitely want to check out Contemporary Audio in Okemos near the corner of Okemos and Jolly Rds (near I-96). Very good reputation and higher end components.

Geordon

The move to East Lansing is scheduled as a 2+ years site, so we will be there at least 2 years till the site is fully up and developed, but we are thinking of settling in there if it turns out after the first 2 years we are enjoying the area. Alot of my wifes family is in Cananda and Detroit so East Lansing is close (yet far enough away too-hehe) for visists vs that drive we used to do from IL or IN.

Moving every 2-4 years is/was not fun but it is sometimes required for her job & they pay all costs - she does leaseups for apartments and new home construction however this is one needs a full-time on-site community manager too, so we could stay on after the homes are all up and sold!!!

The nice part is that part of her salary is to include a house to live in at no cost to us as long as she works for them - so we are just banking what we can for a future home of our own, and stuff like that allows a stay at home dad like me to have a few toys like HD TV and such hehe.

The East Lansing home we are going to is a 1500 sq foot 4 bedroom w/ 2 car garage, so I can't complain, but someday I sure to hope to settle down and buy my own place so I can FINALLY "create" a true custom home theater room!

Bill :)

I thought some of you guys who live in East Lansing were able to get WOTV?

I can in Holt but I'm 48 miles out. Those 5-10 miles further out have trouble.
Originally posted by Chris White
I thought some of you guys who live in East Lansing were able to get WOTV?

Originally posted by mlcarson
I can in Holt but I'm 48 miles out. Those 5-10 miles further out have trouble.
I am in Mason, and I get all of the Lansing channels in perfectly with my Silver Sensor. ABC is a little trickier. When the stars are aligned, I can get WOTV. I get WJRT out of Flint consistently from 37-60 on the strength meter.

I do need to adjust the antenna a bit to pick up WJRT. I velcroed the antenna to the back of the TV so I don't have to see it. I have all of my components (except the DVD player) out of sight, so the antenna looked out of place. Plus, who really wants to see an antenna?:)