I've intently followed the NYC thread to pick up bits and pieces on OTA reception where I am in Central NJ (Middlesex County---Monroe Township) and also tried to follow the Philly thread as well because I've read that folks are able to get both cities broadcasts in my area.

The search feature on this site was disabled this afternoon when I tried to find certain things I've got questions about.

Yesterday I hooked up my Channelmaster 4228 OTA UHF antenna (mounted about 5 feet above my ranch homes roofline on a 10 foot mast attached to the side of my house at a peak) and aimed it towards Philly to see what I could pick up in that direction. I plan on putting in a rotor in the near future for NYC locals---it's just that with all this darn snow/ice/rain lately, I was just happy to see 3 hours of sunlight yesterday to be able to clamor up onto the roof and get working like a busy beaver :D

Here's what I can pick up on my Hughes E86 receiver (I'm a D* sub as well):

WKYWDT (3-1) Strength of 100
WPSGDT (57-1) Strength of around 95
WNJTDT (43-1/2/3/4) Strength of 100 (***PBS OUT OF TRENTON)
WPVIDT (6-1) Strength of 27-35
WCAUDT (10-1) Strength of 0
WTXFDT (29-1) Strength of 0
WPHLDT (17-1) Strength of 0

Now, all of the above, with the exception of WNJT are supposedly available at 255 degrees according to Antennaweb.org from my location. Is there a reason that one station comes in at 100 but the rest don't? Are the ones I'm getting 0 strength on at lower power? My minimal knowledge base assumed all the towers were in the same spot---or all the transmitters were on the same tower.

And what's the best way to increase my strength on the ABC (WPVIDT) out of Philly? I got MUCHO pixelation and only was able to make out about a 1/5th of the screen visually---with the rest being solid smears of colors and pixels (Greens, reds, whites, etc...) Is it a matter of tweaking the antenna's direction? I know I've read that some pre-amps will overmodulate (not sure if that's the right term) the signal causing a degradation if the signal is already strong enough---so I'm not sure if I need a pre-amp for the Philly direction.

I guess the reason I started this thread and put it here and not under the Philly thread was I was curious to see if ANYONE else in Central NJ has similar issues. I know there's about a dozen of you out there who posted under NYC's thread. And it KILLS me that the NBC from Philly won't even register. My wife is ready to KILL me after I hyped the fact that Law and Order is in HD :(

Any info would be helpful.

Thanks in advance!

JPB


USER STB ANTENNA LOCATION PRE-AMP MOUNTING
_____ ____ ________ ________ _______ _________

JAYPB E86 CM4228 MONROE CM7775 ROOF

JPB,

I live near Rt. 1, 1mile north of 95/295, so the situation shouldn't be dramatically different.

About stations, (I read through the looong Philly thread), people seem to have problems getting NBC (WCAU-DT) and FOX (WTXF-DT) even close to the tower. Looks like the problem is low power. WCAU had promised to move to the new tower with the full power, but it has been delayed many times.

I was not able to detect any signal for these 2 stations. I thought outdoor antenna might make a difference, but your report makes me think otherwise.. The rest of the stations you listed, I can get decent signals (including WPVI-DT) using indoor Silver Sensor and Samsung T-151. WPSG-DT is somewhat weak compared to others. I am able to get WHYY-DT (PBS: 12.1) but I have to move the antenna and lose CBS.

The signal strength you are getting from some of the stations looks very good compared to mine. Probably antenna shape, transmittion patter, location, STB, or the combination of all.

Yeah, NBC is also my biggest issue. Hopefully they will upgrade soon, and it will make a difference.

Hope this will help-

Stay Tuned!

I'm in Montgomery Township near 206 and 518 and in next several days will be putting up a roof mounted Televes Dat 75 roof antenna with rotor and preamp. Will be using Zenith HD 520 box. I also subscribe to D*. I have high hopes for decent Phila reception. I will report back.

Originally posted by 2moon
JPB,

I live near Rt. 1, 1mile north of 95/295, so the situation shouldn't be dramatically different.

I'm up a few miles off Rte 18 near East Brunswick and Helmetta/Spotswood. Sorry I didn't mention that earlier.


I was not able to detect any signal for these 2 stations. I thought outdoor antenna might make a difference, but your report makes me think otherwise.. The rest of the stations you listed, I can get decent signals (including WPVI-DT) using indoor Silver Sensor and Samsung T-151. WPSG-DT is somewhat weak compared to others. I am able to get WHYY-DT (PBS: 12.1) but I have to move the antenna and lose CBS.

YMMV from mine. From reading I've noticed that some folks in the same area have drastically different results from others. My problem is I have NO ONE in my immediate area (i.e. Neighbors) with an HD system. You should've seen the looks on my neighbors faces as I was up on the roof yesterday hooking up the 4228. Granted the thing is Sci-Fi'ish looking---but I think they were more amazed that I was on the roof with snow around than anything else :D ANy with the weather the last few weeks, I couldn't wait anymore---I was itchin!

The other issue I'm not sure about is: Just how high I SHOULD have my antenna. Again, I'm only about 5 feet or so over the roofline. I guess I could add another 5 foot mast onto the height when I get the rotor hooked up---but just how high can you go with a mast system and a rotor?? Safety wise I mean. When I asked a guy at Radio Shack, you'd have thought I asked him to figure out the square root of the letter D :confused:

I want to make sure that my antenna is securely and safely fastened before I go any higher. Again, I'm a newbie to this WHOLE antenna thing---especially since I haven't utilized one since the pre-cable era (and I'm only 31) :)



The signal strength you are getting from some of the stations looks very good compared to mine. Probably antenna shape, transmittion patter, location, STB, or the combination of all.


I was thinking along the lines of my E86 not pulling in an iffy signal because I've read that it's not the BEST at locking in on weaker/problematic signals. Out of curiousity just what IS a decent signal...I.E one that won't have drop outs and pixelations? 50? 60? My line of thinking falls back to DirecTV signalage where 80'ish gives you a solid, steady signal. Is it the same with OTA? I didn't see that addressed in the FAQ's.


Yeah, NBC is also my biggest issue. Hopefully they will upgrade soon, and it will make a difference.

Hope this will help-

On the Philly thread it seems like it was "there" a few months ago---but now it's not--for most folks. Am I correct in believing that WNBC in NYC is not transmitting a steady OTA digital HD signal right now?

IMHO, any info ANYONE can provide me is going to help. Especially those in my "area".

Thanks again!

Originally posted by thomasgs
Stay Tuned!

I'm in Montgomery Township near 206 and 518 and in next several days will be putting up a roof mounted Televes Dat 75 roof antenna with rotor and preamp. Will be using Zenith HD 520 box. I also subscribe to D*. I have high hopes for decent Phila reception. I will report back.

Will you also be trying to pull in NYC locals? I was pretty amazed after I hooked up the antenna and was pulling in CBS from Philly in a picture, that all together, was "prettier" than CBS via my DirecTV locals!!!

Seeing is believing---I guess compression really DOES gum up a visual...at least locals wise.

Good luck!

Philly DTV is pretty much a joke. You would figure that living in central NJ would be the best location for DTV. It is far from that.

You should be able to receive KYW and WPVI from Philly with no problem. I also receive WPSG (57) no problem.

I pick up Fox 5 and CBS 2 from NY and PBS from NJN-Trenton. Outside of this, it gets tough. There are no other NYC DT channels.

NBC Philadelphia is supposed to be on the new tower soon. But we have been been hearing that for 6-12 months. Someone just reported that Fox Philadelphia won't be on the new tower until next year.

WB 17 from Philadelphia purposely broadcasts a strange signal that precludes part of their viewing audience from recieiving it. While I can get the analog signal crystal clear, I get nothing from the digital signal.

WB 11 from NYC is supposed to be broadcasting on low power in a few weeks, but I doubt that will be viewable from outside of Jersey City.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

I'm up a few miles off Rte 18 near East Brunswick and Helmetta/Spotswood. Sorry I didn't mention that earlier.

Oh, that's pretty far. I thought it is more like Turnpike 8A.

YMMV from mine. From reading I've noticed that some folks in the same area have drastically different results from others. My problem is I have NO ONE in my immediate area (i.e. Neighbors) with an HD system. You should've seen the looks on my neighbors faces as I was up on the roof yesterday hooking up the 4228. Granted the thing is Sci-Fi'ish looking---but I think they were more amazed that I was on the roof with snow around than anything else ANy with the weather the last few weeks, I couldn't wait anymore---I was itchin!

I bought antenna and STB and set up my system just last week. I was surprised only an indoor antenna could do the trick. You might able to pull off FOX because you have an outdoor. Consensus seems to be that you just need lots of experiments. My case too. Be carefull on that roof!

After viewing HD for just several days; man, DVD look so fuzzy. ;)

I was thinking along the lines of my E86 not pulling in an iffy signal because I've read that it's not the BEST at locking in on weaker/problematic signals. Out of curiousity just what IS a decent signal...I.E one that won't have drop outs and pixelations? 50? 60? My line of thinking falls back to DirecTV signalage where 80'ish gives you a solid, steady signal. Is it the same with OTA? I didn't see that addressed in the FAQ's.

My STB (T151) doesn't give numeric values, but most of the stations give something like 45-60% readings, and they are good enough for zero pixelation.

On the Philly thread it seems like it was "there" a few months ago---but now it's not--for most folks. Am I correct in believing that WNBC in NYC is not transmitting a steady OTA digital HD signal right now?

I am not sure whether WCAU-DT has stopped transmitting at all. I remember reports on some equipment failure. I am waiting for Philly thread update too. According to titantv.com and antennaweb.org, WNBC-DT is not in business.

Happy HDTViewing!

Originally posted by 2moon
I bought antenna and STB and set up my system just last week. I was surprised only an indoor antenna could do the trick. You might able to pull off FOX because you have an outdoor. Consensus seems to be that you just need lots of experiments.


Initially I had purchased a Silver Sensor because I read that it was the most reliable STB antenna at getting signals. Only problem is my TV is in the basement---8 feet or so below grade---and I'd probably have to get the SS up in the attic---but then I read that I'd lose 50% of the signal anyway--so I took the rooftop plunge!

I figure I'll get the rotor and see what happens. Is the Fox picture...noticeably better than cable/satellite? They call it "enhanced widescreen" I believe?

I'm *hoping* that NBC from either direction (NYC or Philly) pops up and I'll be more than happy when I start pulling in some of the PBS stations.

Most of our viewing for the HD content was on HDNet---with it's stunning documentaries and just nature type visual fill.

And, now, we can't get enough :D

Originally posted by pabuwal
You should be able to receive KYW and WPVI from Philly with no problem. I also receive WPSG (57) no problem.

Thanks for the reply.

Interestingly enough last night, I was able to pick up WPVI (6-1 on my E86) at a signal strength of anywhere from 58-64....and it was holding steady this AM. Not sure why. Do signals tend to fluctuate like this on occasion? I had nothing but pixelation the whole 24 hours before---and I didn't move the antenna. Does the "signal" travel better in colder weather? I always noticed as a kid that UHF signals seem to come in better on clear, cold winter nights. Or maybe I'm just crazy :confused:



I pick up Fox 5 and CBS 2 from NY and PBS from NJN-Trenton. Outside of this, it gets tough. There are no other NYC DT channels.

I thought the Trenton PBS station was awesome! I get a kick out of watching those docuvisuals (whatever you call em) with the hills of Italy and the cars of Cuba :p

What kind of a STB are you using? For some reason my E86 doesn't give me a guide listing for WNJT (just says Local channels 43-1, 43-2, 43-3, 43-4) and for the UPN channel out of Philly it just says Local channel 57-1. I think I used a Philly zipcode of 19188 to get the guide data for the rest of the Philly channels. Weird.


NBC Philadelphia is supposed to be on the new tower soon. But we have been been hearing that for 6-12 months. Someone just reported that Fox Philadelphia won't be on the new tower until next year.

Weird thing part II--I was able to pick up Fox Philly at a strength of anywhere from 37-44 on my signal meter with some pixelation late last night....and when I went down to check it this AM before leaving for work, I noticed the AM news was in "full" screen mode---not 4:3 with black bars like Seinfeld was last night. Do they send out their AM news in that
"enhanced widescreen" mode???

I sure hope that the NBC station starts coming in soon. My wife watches Law and Order and Boomtown religiously. After watching CSI last night in HD she was stupified!!! I'm DA MAN now .....on Monday nights at least :cool:


WB 17 from Philadelphia purposely broadcasts a strange signal that precludes part of their viewing audience from recieiving it. While I can get the analog signal crystal clear, I get nothing from the digital signal.

Weird thing part III---I actually have a solid signal from WPHL (17-1) now! Last night it suddenly came in and this AM signal levels were at 44-65 and didn't see any pixelation. Oddly though, they had a show on last night....Everwood or something like that. Think it said on hdtvgalaxy.com it was supposed to be in HD---Looked ok visually before the show came on at 9pm. But when Everwood (SP??) was supposed to come on all I saw was a test pattern with WPHL's logo and some screen text so I never went back to the channel to see if the show ACTUALLY came on.


WB 11 from NYC is supposed to be broadcasting on low power in a few weeks, but I doubt that will be viewable from outside of Jersey City.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

With HDTV there IS no bad news!!! Only obstacles!

Once I get the rotor up (I'm leaning towards the Channelmaster 9521A??? The one with the infared remote) I'll start toying with the rest of the NJ PBS channels and then aim towards NYC.

What kind of STB are you running? Antenna outside or in?

Thanks for the info.

JPB,

I live in Bedminster and have a 4228 as well, mounted in the attic. I pretty much concur to what you see on the channels you suggested. CBS and 57-1 come in good all the time, I do get upn 17-1 once in a while.

I am insterested that you were able to get ABC this morning. I have had zero success in getting this channel in. The best I was able to get was the sound but no picture on my TV.

Gary

Originally posted by gjohnsen2002
JPB,

I live in Bedminster and have a 4228 as well, mounted in the attic. I pretty much concur to what you see on the channels you suggested. CBS and 57-1 come in good all the time, I do get upn 17-1 once in a while.

I am insterested that you were able to get ABC this morning. I have had zero success in getting this channel in. The best I was able to get was the sound but no picture on my TV.

Gary

Gary,

The weird thing was I wasn't getting a clear picture on 6-1 (where my E86 maps it to) all evening Sunday when I hooked it up. I had a visual---it was clean for about the top 3 inches of my 50" Toshiba and the rest of the screen was smears of color and pixels...no sound..no chirping with a signal strength of between 20-30 or so. It was warmer on Sunday than it was on Monday/today---I wonder if colder temps equal better signal distance?

Then, last night, I just flipped by and was like WOAH! Look at this! The Practice was on...was like I'd seen fire for the first time ;)

Are you able to pick up NBC out of Philly (WCAU)??? I was hoping to get that station as well just because NBC seems to have shows that are worth watching. Seeing KYW's HD feed of CSI Miami last night was stunning. The clarity, the sound...my wife was in awe.

I'm pretty happy with the ChannelMaster 4228. Was easy to manuever and install. Was expecting it to come with a mast though---Spectravox.com's website had text saying "pre-galvanized mast"...but the rep later told me it wasn't shipped with one.

I'm diggin' OTA HD. My wife is too. Can't wait to have friends and family over and WOW em! :D

Thanks for the reply.

Gentlemen,

Those of you having difficulty getting WCAU - NBC or WTXF - Fox from Philadelphia consistently might try adding a preamp to your rooftop antenna.

I am using a 20 year old Winegard combo VHF/UHF with a mast mounted Blonder-Tongue preamp. This combo sits about 5 feet above my 2 story roof. I get all of the Philly stations all the time with no dropouts or pixelations. As I measure it, I am 38 miles East by Northeast of the Philly ant farm. I also receive a solid signal from WCBS - NY off the back of this antenna. Under certain weather conditions, I have also received channels 5-1 and 5-2 from NYC.

The model number for the current favoritre Channel Master preamp was mentioned several times in the Philly OTA thread. Worth a try!

Ray

Originally posted by RayN
Gentlemen,

Those of you having difficulty getting WCAU - NBC or WTXF - Fox from Philadelphia consistently might try adding a preamp to your rooftop antenna.


Ray,

I thought about using a pre-amp....specifically the one I *think* you are talking about (CM 7777). My question is: Will the preamp overamplify the channels I'm currently getting a perfect signal on? KYW-DT and WNJT-DT are a perfect 100 according to my E86. That's one of the things I wasn't sure about AFA using a preamp.

And, I just checked my signals--no WXTF or WPHL or WPVI viewing tonight. Signals are under 10 for all 3. Nothing out of WCAU at all :mad:

Thanks for the info.

I use two Radio Shack Yagi antenna's in attic. I use a two piece RS amp. I live on a hill with good visibility toward Phily. I use a Panasonic HDS20 which has no signal meter. Since I'm doing this ad-hoc I won't use the actual digital channel numbers but how they appear on my receiver. Here's my situation:

Signal Reception
Strength Past Now

3-1 H Y Y
6-1 M-H Y Y
10-1 L Y N
12-1 M-H Y Y
17-1 L-M Y Y
29-1 M Y Y
43-1-4 M Y Y
52-1 L-M Y N
57-1 L-M Y N

L=Low M=Med H=High Y=Yes N=No

As you can tell, at one time I've been able to pick up all of these. Right now I am not seeing two channels.

Signal Strength is subjective based on lock-on speed, scanning recognition, guide, etc. For example, 3-1 or CBS always is picked up on scan, has immediate lock-on, sound & guide come up almost instantanously. But, 57-1 deesn't always get picked up and right now I can't receive it.

So, currently, I'm not sure if 10-1 NBC and 57-1 WB are broadcasting at full power from the new antenna. 10-1 was always weak but on most nights I was able to pick it up. Toward the end of last year it just went blank. The funny thing about 10-1 is that about a month to two ago they started coming in great with immediate lock-on so I new they had changed their broadcasting (location & power). But, they've been off to me for the last two months. Is it me or them? 57-1 is not currently available to me. It has come in well in the past. Again, not sure if it's my receiver's problem in locking this in. 52-1 sometimes comes in but not now.

Can someone with good local reception confirm if 10-1 and 57-1 are broadcasting right now?

Thanks
tonyo

Sorry all, it word-wrapped the columns I set up with spaces. What I was trying to convey can be read as follows:

After each channel, 1st letter (L, M, H or range) is reception. 2nd letter is reception status during past (Y or N - but all Yes). 3rd letter is reception now (Y or N).

Thanks-

tonyo

Can someone with good local reception confirm if 10-1 and 57-1 are broadcasting right now?

tonyo123,

Both 10-1 and 57-1 are broadcasting as of 10:00 PM.

). My question is: Will the preamp overamplify the channels I'm currently getting a perfect signal on? KYW-DT and WNJT-DT are a perfect 100 according to my E86.

jaypb,

I get the same signal strength on KYW 3-1 with and without the preamp. Apparently, my STP, a Samsung SIRT-165, handles the extra signal strength without overload at the distance that I am from the transmitter. On WCAU, the signal strength goes from 4 bars to 9 bars on the signal meter. I think that if the front end of the STB is properly designed, it will have enough dynamic range to handle the strong signals without overload while permitting consistent reception with the weaker ones.

Ray

Originally posted by gjohnsen2002
JPB,

I live in Bedminster and have a 4228 as well, mounted in the attic. I pretty much concur to what you see on the channels you suggested. CBS and 57-1 come in good all the time, I do get upn 17-1 once in a while.

I am insterested that you were able to get ABC this morning. I have had zero success in getting this channel in. The best I was able to get was the sound but no picture on my TV.

Gary
You're living in Bedminster and can get Philly stations with a 4228? YES YES YES!!! WOOHOO. Bedminster is about the same distance from Philly as I am (Martinsville - I'm on the mountain, and I think close enough to the top that a roofmount antenna will "peek" over the top. I should check this with my GPS...)

Is that with or without a preamp?

BTW, for those that don't have a preamp, Lowes on Stelton Road in Piscataway (Keep turning right after taking the Stelton Road exit from I-287 south) has a Channel Master 3041DSB VHF/UHF preamp for around $55ish. Works wonderfully.

Have any of you been able to obtain the 4228 from a brick-and-mortar store anywhere? I'm VERY tempted to get a 4228 up on the roof aimed at Philly, but a brick-and-mortar store would make it easier to return if it isn't sufficient.

Originally posted by tonyo123
I use two Radio Shack Yagi antenna's in attic. I use a two piece RS amp. I live on a hill with good visibility toward Phily. I use a Panasonic HDS20 which has no signal meter. Since I'm doing this ad-hoc I won't use the actual digital channel numbers but how they appear on my receiver. Here's my situation:

Signal Reception
Strength Past Now

3-1 H Y Y
6-1 M-H Y Y
10-1 L Y N
12-1 M-H Y Y
17-1 L-M Y Y
29-1 M Y Y
43-1-4 M Y Y
52-1 L-M Y N
57-1 L-M Y N

L=Low M=Med H=High Y=Yes N=No

As you can tell, at one time I've been able to pick up all of these. Right now I am not seeing two channels.

Signal Strength is subjective based on lock-on speed, scanning recognition, guide, etc. For example, 3-1 or CBS always is picked up on scan, has immediate lock-on, sound & guide come up almost instantanously. But, 57-1 deesn't always get picked up and right now I can't receive it.

So, currently, I'm not sure if 10-1 NBC and 57-1 WB are broadcasting at full power from the new antenna. 10-1 was always weak but on most nights I was able to pick it up. Toward the end of last year it just went blank. The funny thing about 10-1 is that about a month to two ago they started coming in great with immediate lock-on so I new they had changed their broadcasting (location & power). But, they've been off to me for the last two months. Is it me or them? 57-1 is not currently available to me. It has come in well in the past. Again, not sure if it's my receiver's problem in locking this in. 52-1 sometimes comes in but not now.

Can someone with good local reception confirm if 10-1 and 57-1 are broadcasting right now?

Thanks
tonyo

Tonyo,

As of tonight, I'm able to get 57-1 UPN fine. I've yet to tune in 10-1 (WCAU). Where are you in NJ? And do you happen to know which amp you are using? I've come across your name while perusing the novel known as the Philly OTA thread :D

Is it normal for signals to fluctuate on a nightly basis? I KNOW this AM before I left for work I had a steady lock on 29-1, 17-1 and 6-1...yet when I got home at 8pm I didn't. No "24" for the wife--and she wasn't happy :mad:

I'll definitely give an amp/pre-amp a shot.

Funny thing about CBS 3-1. It has been at 100% since I hooked up the antenna on Sunday. Just for S&G's I tried 2-1 (WCBS out of NY) and actually got a semi steady picture/sound....even though the antenna is pointed totally in the other direction. Is CBS (as an organization) using a uniform broadcasting standard to boom their signals out there?

Just curious. Thanks for the info.

Originally posted by RayN
jaypb,

I get the same signal strength on KYW 3-1 with and without the preamp. Apparently, my STP, a Samsung SIRT-165, handles the extra signal strength without overload at the distance that I am from the transmitter. On WCAU, the signal strength goes from 4 bars to 9 bars on the signal meter. I think that if the front end of the STB is properly designed, it will have enough dynamic range to handle the strong signals without overload while permitting consistent reception with the weaker ones.

Ray

I've got to get a preamp then! Is that preamp you are using carried locally or was it mail/internet order? Never heard of your make....but then again, I've only been "doing this HD thing" for a few weeks now :D

Originally posted by Entropy512
Have any of you been able to obtain the 4228 from a brick-and-mortar store anywhere? I'm VERY tempted to get a 4228 up on the roof aimed at Philly, but a brick-and-mortar store would make it easier to return if it isn't sufficient.

If you go to Channelmaster's website they have a search feature to "find a local dealer" in your area. The only place I found local (somewhat) to me was in Hazlet (over by Rte 36 I believe). I never called them though. Bought my 4228 from spectravox.com. Received it in about 3 days too. Only complaint I had was based on their description I was expecting a mast with the antenna. No mast. Explanation given to me was that the "mast" the description was talking about was the tubing on the sides.

Either way I had read about their CS before I bought. I can't complain other than that.

Good luck!

jaypb,

My preamp was installed by a professional antenna installer a long time ago. Blonder-Tongue is a local company (Old Bridge, I think) that has been making high quality antenna products for many years.

My preamp is mounted just below the antenna on the mast and gets its' power through the coax. I don't know whether the Channel Master mentioned in this thread preamp is mast mounted or is used indoors at the STB. I think that any probably any high quality UHF preamp with 10-15 db gain across the band will be fine.

Ray

jaypb

I live in Basking Ridge, just under 100 miles from center of Phily according to Mapquest (does anyone have exact address of antenna locations?). The preamp is a two-piece Radio Shack model. It has a small AC supply and a separate power amp that you put close to the antenna. Seems to work well although I'm wondering if I could do better with a strong Channel Master model. It did work better than other RS models even those with variable power.

As for 10-1 NBC WCAU I will reset my receiber tonight and see if I can somehow pick it up.

jaypb

Ran up to the attic and couldn't find model number on the RS amp....

jaypb-

Okay, found the 'in-line signal amplifier' in the RS web page:

It's RS Cat # 15-1170 and it boosts the siganl 10 db. It's $30 and carried at most Radio Shacks. Here is the Web Page:

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F002%5F004%5F004%5F000&product%5Fid=15%2D1170

jaypb-

Okay, found the 'in-line signal amplifier' in the RS web page:

It's RS Cat # 15-1170 and it boosts the signal 10 db. It's $30 and carried at most Radio Shacks. Here is the Web Page:

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F002%5F004%5F004%5F000&product%5Fid=15%2D1170

Originally posted by RayN
jaypb,

My preamp was installed by a professional antenna installer a long time ago. Blonder-Tongue is a local company (Old Bridge, I think) that has been making high quality antenna products for many years.

My preamp is mounted just below the antenna on the mast and gets its' power through the coax. I don't know whether the Channel Master mentioned in this thread preamp is mast mounted or is used indoors at the STB. I think that any probably any high quality UHF preamp with 10-15 db gain across the band will be fine.

Ray
The 3041DSB is definately mast-mounted.

As far as Rat Shack preamps - I wouldn't trust most of them. The 1171 bidirectional amp seems to be the most stable/lowest noise amp available from them according to people's experiences on this forum, but they still have no noise figure specifications published. No NF spec = I would strongly not reccommend using it.

The CM 3041DSB amp available at Lowes is mast-mounted and specced at (I believe) 22 dB gain and 2-2.2 dB noise figure (The best NF I've seen for any broadband amp) at UHF. It's specced somewhat lower (16 dB gain???) at VHF.

BTW, can anyone with a 4228 provide a picture of it with something else in the picture to provide a scale reference? CM's site shows it with nothing but blue sky in the background, which makes the antenna look HUGE compared to what I would expect given the size specs. It would be nice to see a picture of what an installed antenna looks like. (While we have no HOAs to worry about, being the only people in the neighborhood with a television antenna on the roof is somewhat of a sticky issue, so it would be nice to minimize visible impact.)

Edit: BTW, as the crow flies, Basking Ridge is probably on the order of 60ish miles from Philly, not 100. Basking Ridge is only a few miles north of Martinsville and my range is 55 miles.

Originally posted by tonyo123
jaypb

I live in Basking Ridge, just under 100 miles from center of Phily according to Mapquest (does anyone have exact address of antenna locations?). The preamp is a two-piece Radio Shack model. It has a small AC supply and a separate power amp that you put close to the antenna. Seems to work well although I'm wondering if I could do better with a strong Channel Master model. It did work better than other RS models even those with variable power.

As for 10-1 NBC WCAU I will reset my receiber tonight and see if I can somehow pick it up.

I wonder how far I am from Philly. On the map sure looks further than I am from NYC :D

I noticed last night that, even though my CM 4228 is a UHF antenna, I'm picking up analog 3/6/10/17/29/57. Weird. Pretty clear visuals/sound too. Yet I'm not even getting a BLIP out of WCAU-DT 10.1

Go figure.

And everything but KYW-DT and UPN 57.1 and 43-1/2/3/4 was gone last night.

No "24" for the wife. I wanted to see how much better the picture looked in "enhanced widescreen" or whatever FOX calls it.

:o

Originally posted by tonyo123
jaypb-

Okay, found the 'in-line signal amplifier' in the RS web page:

It's RS Cat # 15-1170 and it boosts the siganl 10 db. It's $30 and carried at most Radio Shacks. Here is the Web Page:

http://www.radioshack.com/product.a...%5Fid=15%2D1170
Okay, found the 'in-line signal amplifier' in the RS web page:

It's RS Cat # 15-1170 and it boosts the siganl 10 db. It's $30 and carried at most Radio Shacks. Here is the Web Page:

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F002%5F004%5F004%5F000&product%5Fid=15%2D1170

Thanks. I noticed these last week before I bought my antenna masts and mounts at RS. I was hoping to hook up the antenna and go "bareback" so to speak (no rotor and no amps) aimed at Philly to see what I picked up.

I was tease on Monday when nearly EVERYTHING but WCAU came in...and now everything but CBS and UPN are gone :(

Trial and error....right??? :D

BTW---if anyone is near East Brunswick, I was at the Best Buy yesterday--they have an E86 on the floor...open box tagged----$250! I asked the sales guy if I had to buy it with an access card---he told me yes. I didn't have time to ask for a supervisor. I know I've read different threads about people buying open box specials without the access card. Has BB changed their policies?

Originally posted by Entropy512
The CM 3041DSB amp available at Lowes is mast-mounted and specced at (I believe) 22 dB gain and 2-2.2 dB noise figure (The best NF I've seen for any broadband amp) at UHF. It's specced somewhat lower (16 dB gain???) at VHF.

I may have to hit Lowe's on the way home. Either way I won't be able to get up on the roof till Saturday---and now I see there's MORE precip coming for the weekend. Oh joy!

Are there any charts/rules of thumb as far as just HOW high a mast can be as far as support/safety wise? I'm using the antenna mounts that go near the peak of the house on the siding. I only have 2 5 foot masts attached right now. If I put the rotor on, I probably want to have 10 feet of mast ABOVE the rotor. Is that within the specs/guidelines for a CM 9521a rotor? When I asked the salesman at RS about their rotor and how much it could handle (mast wise) he didn't know.


BTW, can anyone with a 4228 provide a picture of it with something else in the picture to provide a scale reference? CM's site shows it with nothing but blue sky in the background, which makes the antenna look HUGE compared to what I would expect given the size specs. It would be nice to see a picture of what an installed antenna looks like. (While we have no HOAs to worry about, being the only people in the neighborhood with a television antenna on the roof is somewhat of a sticky issue, so it would be nice to minimize visible impact.)

I can probably post one by the end of the weekend. It really is sci-fi looking compared to normal VHF/Yagi style antennas. My wife says it looks like the burger/fish basket that you use on your barbecue. :D

I concur.

Hello All,

Entropy,
I have talked to you before and you have given me some great advise in the past. Yes I am in Bedminster (the Hills) and have a CM 4228 in the attic and am picking up some Philly stations. You have suggested me replacing my 11-1191 RS amp with a CM 7775. I have yet to do this, but am optimistic that this will do the trick (The Goal: Get ABC and FOX 6-1, 29-1) w/o missing up my rock solid CBS (3-1) signal. This will probably be my last step, cant think of any other things to do .

I bought my 4228 from Warren Electronics on the Web - came in 4 days !! Could not find any Brick & Mortar shops selling antenna's (other than the Shack - which know nada regarding Antenna theory - I know next to nada !!)

jaypb:

You and I have pretty much the same reception. Analog Fox and NBC come in GREAT for me, get 20% on the digital equivalents - I get KYW digital at 85% whilst the analog channel is awful!!!

Gary

jaybp:

The 4228 is approx 36.5 inch square, and my hole in the attic was 36 inches. Hence, its somewhat bendable ... and not the best looking (I was thinking like a crab net :-)

I wonder how far I am from Philly. On the map sure looks further than I am from NYC

jaypb,

I did a quick calculation based on latitude and longitude for you distances from the Roxborough antenna farm in Philly and the Empire State Building. You are 42.8 miles from the Philly location and 33.6 miles from the ESB. This is based on my assumption of your location half way between Spotswood and Helmetta along Main St. (CR 615). Is this close enough?

Originally posted by RayN
jaypb,

I did a quick calculation based on latitude and longitude for you distances from the Roxborough antenna farm in Philly and the Empire State Building. You are 42.8 miles from the Philly location and 33.6 miles from the ESB. This is based on my assumption of your location half way between Spotswood and Helmetta along Main St. (CR 615). Is this close enough?

WoW! Not only do you LIVE in Princeton, but you're almost Einstein'ian in your calculations!!! :D

615 is "right up the road" as New Jersians say..... I'm actually a transplanted NY'er (Staten Island) and as a kid I used to be able to pick up WPHL on my ole' UHF loop antenna and watch Philly 76er games with Barkley and Toney and Cheeks and Ruland.....which is why I think I'm STILL fascinated with the idea of picking up distant OTA stations :p

I think I mentioned it in a post earlier last night---I inputted in 2-1 (WCBS out of NY) and actually got a somewhat pixelated signal---even though the antenna is facing 255 degrees Southwest. Either the 4228 is pretty sensitive or WCBS in NY is booming....because I thought I remember reading that one of the downsides of the E86 (my STB) is that it's not the most reliable at locking onto signals.

Thanks for the info---I'm just ITCHIN' to get that rotor hooked up!

Originally posted by gjohnsen2002
jaybp:

The 4228 is approx 36.5 inch square, and my hole in the attic was 36 inches. Hence, its somewhat bendable ... and not the best looking (I was thinking like a crab net :-)

Gary,

Yeah, a crab net description will work as well. Either way it's definitely an eye catcher. Haven't had anyone stop me yet to ask what kind of antenna it is.

Seems I'm the only one in the neighborhood toying with HD signals!

Originally posted by gjohnsen2002
jaypb:

You and I have pretty much the same reception. Analog Fox and NBC come in GREAT for me, get 20% on the digital equivalents - I get KYW digital at 85% whilst the analog channel is awful!!!

Gary

What kind of STB are you using? I know you mentioned the CM 4228 but I didn't notice your receiver. I have an E86 (Hughes) and was initially concerned when I read that it's internal OTA tuner wasn't as sensitive as the newer STB models. I was elated when I saw KYW's picture---and went to the other end of the spectrum when I saw most of my channels disappear within 24 hours :(

I'll get over it. trial and error, trial and error :)

Let me know if you see improvement with the CM amp from Lowe's over the RS amp.

I can't get WB 17 and I am wondering if that will help. I currently have the RS amp.

jaypb,

I have the Sony HD-200.

Hey pabuwal,

If and when I make the run to Lowes, I will let u know how I make out !!!!

Gary

Jaypb,
With that kind of height to your mast, you may need some wires to keep it in place when the wind blows.

I have my CM3023 (just like the 4248) about 8 feet in the air, w/o wires and it looks pretty precarious; It's been there for over a year through some pretty good wind gusts and so far, so good (knock on wood).

Also, I'm much farther north than you, and get the Philly stations pretty well- except 29-1 and 10-1, which are very unreliable.

Originally posted by PaulM9999
Jaypb,
With that kind of height to your mast, you may need some wires to keep it in place when the wind blows.

I have my CM4228 about 8 feet in the air, w/o wires and it looks pretty precarious; It's been there for over a year through some pretty good wind gusts and so far, so good (knock on wood).

Also, I'm much farther north than you, and get the Philly stations pretty well- except 29-1 and 10-1, which are very unreliable.

Paul,

I know what you are saying about "precarious". That's the way I felt when I put it up. I'm thinking about adding guy wires to the setup if/when I add on the rotor and another 5 foot section of mast.

I also picked up the pre-amp that Entropy was talking about...CM3041DSB. Lowe's had one in stock. 59.99 I believe. Think it was the same price at a few places online. Hopefully I'll be able to get it up this weekend...hopefully this supposed snow doesn't materialize.

I've had enough of winter :D

BTW---only getting KYW(3-1), UPN (57-1) and WNJT (43-1/2/3/4) strong tonight. Everything else is under 25 on my meter. Strangely,again, even though my 4228 is facing SOuthwest, when I got home tonight I had a pixelated picture from WCBS (2-1) and WNYW (5-1)...but they are gone now....

I'll figure this darn thing out.....
:confused:

I've got the CM 7775 amp, which works great up here in Warren County. Hopefully the model you picked up will do wonders for you. I tried the Radio Shack amp first, but it was useless. I went from 0-100 on KYW-DT just by adding the amp, and you're much closer to Philly than I am.
Good luck,
Paul

Originally posted by PaulM9999
I've got the CM 7775 amp, which works great up here in Warren County. Hopefully the model you picked up will do wonders for you. I tried the Radio Shack amp first, but it was useless. I went from 0-100 on KYW-DT just by adding the amp, and you're much closer to Philly than I am.
Good luck,
Paul

Paul,

I opened the box and just looked over the diagram/instructions. What kind of a cable/wire did you use to connect the antenna itself to the inside of the mast mount amplifier part with the 2 screws? A regular 300 ohm cable/wire? I know that the 4228 I hooked up came with a connector to hook up the RG6 to the dipoles themselves....but I'm not to clear on what to use to connect the antenna to this pre-amp.

Sounds like a stupid question huh? :p

I learned enough from the first time I was up on the roof that I want to have EVERYTHING I need as soon as I hit the shingles....and not have to come down (or go back to the store :D) until I'm done....

Thanks!

fords nj checking in!
i've only been able to get an indoor antenna set-up going, but I thought i'd add my two cents. i use the silver sensor with a radio shack 15-1171 amp connected to my dish 6000. i'm pretty close to nyc and about 53 miles from philly. as a result i get upn/fox out of nyc (60-74 strength) cbs out of nyc (low strength though so i usually use my dish network cbs), and the wonderful pbs out of trenton. i've got my fingers and toes crossed for wb to come on soon at a high enough power for me to pull it in too (i just want to see smallville in 1080i!). i'd love to get a roof top antenna going with a rotator, but we don't have the cash to spare yet and i don't know a good installer...

Well, I took Entropy512's recommendation and on the way home from a meeting down in Holmdel decided to stop by the Lowes in Piscataway (right off I287 Exit 5). They had a poor antenna section but they did have two CM 3041DSB amps. I picked one up and installed it in the attic. Well, I am almost in DTV heaven. Except for a few glitches things are a lot better. I am again picking up NBC and UPN. Here's what I get and I picked up some additional channels:

CBS 3-1 (26) - always solid

ABC 6-1 (see on 64-1,-2; for some reason doesn't map into 6-1; rescanned a few times and got same result) - fine lock so it's a mystery why it won't map into 6-1 since it did before I changed out the RS for the CM amp.

NBC 10-1 (67) - looks good; I guess they are transmitting

PBS HYY 12-1 (55) - fine

WB 17-1 (54) - better lock-in

FOX 29-1 (42) - solid finally

LVT 39-1,-2-3,-4 (62) - have seen this before but forgot; now it's solid; for some reason I have to manually enter the -2-4 if I want to see them; favorites won't hold...

PBS NJN 43-1,-2 (43) - pretty good

UPN 57-1 (32) - solid

UNI 66-1 (?) - wow, new channel in Spanish

I should mention that I use two RS Yagi antenna's (not one) spliced together at 300 ohms then to the CM amp. But adding the second one did not make any difference from what I could tell. These are in the attic on a hill and facing unobstructed towards Phily. My DTV receiver is the very quirky Panasonic HDS20. It does have a great picture but it will reset occasionally, especially under a channel scan. I try not to bother it too much. At some point when most of the bugs are worked out and the functionality is improved on these HDTV-DirecTV receivers I will upgrade.

I may later try to orient one towards NYC to see if I can pick up a few of the transmitting NYC channels (gets a little frustrating watching Phily DTV stations during news). In the past I did not have much luck doing this.

Looks like you are saying it improved things. I am going to the same Lowes today, so good thing you left one for me!

Originally posted by jaypb
Paul,

I opened the box and just looked over the diagram/instructions. What kind of a cable/wire did you use to connect the antenna itself to the inside of the mast mount amplifier part with the 2 screws? A regular 300 ohm cable/wire? I know that the 4228 I hooked up came with a connector to hook up the RG6 to the dipoles themselves....but I'm not to clear on what to use to connect the antenna to this pre-amp.

Sounds like a stupid question huh? :p

I learned enough from the first time I was up on the roof that I want to have EVERYTHING I need as soon as I hit the shingles....and not have to come down (or go back to the store :D) until I'm done....

Thanks!
Standard 300 ohm twinlead. If the 4228 only has a coax connection, you can get a transformer. (Although that might add some loss and slightly offset the benefits of the amp - So in your case getting an amp with coax connections might be better, too bad Lowes doesn't have them too.)

My antenna at home has twinlead connections, so the amp was perfect for it. Mine isn't exactly mast mounted (no mast, the antenna is resting on the attic rafters, yes I know that isn't optimal but there aren't too many other options), it's just hanging from the antenna by its feed wire...

Originally posted by Entropy512
Standard 300 ohm twinlead. If the 4228 only has a coax connection, you can get a transformer. (Although that might add some loss and slightly offset the benefits of the amp - So in your case getting an amp with coax connections might be better, too bad Lowes doesn't have them too.)


Maybe someone can confirm for me, as my newbie antenna vocabulary is limited, but I BELIEVE the 4228 has a twinlead connection---it came with a converter than allowed me to hook up the 75ohm coaxial RG6--ergo, I'm assuming I can just hook up the 300 ohm wire from the antenna itself to the pre-amp. I assume there is an outdoor rated wire for this? I'm visualizing the 300 ohm wires from years past that were paper thin and flimsy....is it still the same?

After reading about Paul's improvement in reception I'm DYING to hook it up and hopeful that this anticipated few inches of snow is off the roof by Saturday.

:eek:

Originally posted by tonyo123
ABC 6-1 (see on 64-1,-2; for some reason doesn't map into 6-1; rescanned a few times and got same result) - fine lock so it's a mystery why it won't map into 6-1 since it did before I changed out the RS for the CM amp.

I believe there was a thread earlier last night on this issue. I checked my STB and it was still showing 6-1...but I couldn't pick up anything....and 64-1/2 picked up nothing as well when I did a scan.

I may later try to orient one towards NYC to see if I can pick up a few of the transmitting NYC channels (gets a little frustrating watching Phily DTV stations during news). In the past I did not have much luck doing this.

I probably mentioned it earlier in the thread but for some reason I'm picking up (sporadically--with pixelation and dropouts galore) Fox 5 (5-1), WCBS 2 (2-1), WWOR-9 (5-2) from NYC even though my 4228 is pointed towards Philly----odd. Is this a "symptom" of anything? Multipath? I'm still unsure of the visual issues of Multipath (not sure if I know what to look for), but I thought it odd that I picked up the NYC Digitals whilst pointed towards Philly.

To paraphrase a line the great Christopher Walken used on SNL, "I've got a feva....and the only prescription....is more HDTV ...." :p

Originally posted by jaypb
Maybe someone can confirm for me, as my newbie antenna vocabulary is limited, but I BELIEVE the 4228 has a twinlead connection---it came with a converter than allowed me to hook up the 75ohm coaxial RG6--ergo, I'm assuming I can just hook up the 300 ohm wire from the antenna itself to the pre-amp. I assume there is an outdoor rated wire for this? I'm visualizing the 300 ohm wires from years past that were paper thin and flimsy....is it still the same?

After reading about Paul's improvement in reception I'm DYING to hook it up and hopeful that this anticipated few inches of snow is off the roof by Saturday.

:eek:
Haven't really seen anything in this regard. Twinlead is inherently more resistant to corrosion than coax (except at the ends), since there's not really any center insulator for water to leak down through. (It's esp. bad for foam and air dielectric coax.)

Probably any 300 ohm line should be fine. You might want to insulate the connections themselves, although it's not like they're carrying high voltage.

Well, went ahead and reoriented one of the two antenna's toward NYC. After some fiddling with the angle (approx 98 degrees), was able to pick up 2-1, 5-1,-2. This is great as I now can pick up NYC news. Then on rescanning the channels, I developed some other signal drop-outs on 29-1. After optimizing for it I lost 39-1,-2,-3,-4. Seems like you can never get everything right. But, I'm not complaining since I get most everything I want. I'm pretty happy. The CM 3041DSB really does a great job. I appreciate the help through this forum. I'm going to let the whole thing sit for a while and see if the situation changes after the bad weather moves through.

As far as the twin-lead 300 ohm question, a lot of the amp/pre-amps out out have either 300 ohm or 75 ohm inputs. So, this CM is 300 ohm-to-75 ohm output. Probably the best way to go. But, if your antenna already has a 75 ohm output, I would not reverse the signal to get it to 300 ohms then through the amp and back to 76 ohms, It seems like it would introduce loss and noise. 75 ohm coax CM's (model 0068 DSB) can be found at Stark Electronics (http://www.starkelectronic.com/cmpreamp.htm).

One thing that is confusing to me is why the CM 3041DSB doesn't show up there or in Channel Master's Web Site (http://www.cmnc.com/pages/ss1.htm). The brochure that came with the 3041DSB has internal instructions which call it a Spartan 3, again same as the 0064DSB. The model 0064 DSB has the same specs and input-outputs, as well as in appearance. The difference appears to be that the 3041 does not have a 'tunable FM trap' (it does have an in/out trap). Doesn't matter for HDTV since signal is digital. So except for this minor difference they are the same.

Jaypb-

Great idea starting this thread. I was tired of being lumped into Phily and NYC threads...

Originally posted by tonyo123
Jaypb-

Great idea starting this thread. I was tired of being lumped into Phily and NYC threads...

I figured along the same lines---I kept hopping back and forth between both threads trying to figure out who had what, who was getting which channels---sending PM's to people so as not to "hijack" a thread with specific NJ based questions.

On to tonight----It's funny scanning through channels when there's nothing but Bush on :eek:

But seriously, :D, my E86 mapped WTVI up to 64-1 and 2, yet still shows 6-1 as Channel 6 as well. I'm getting a picture and some sound, but mucho pixelation on 64-1/2 and 6-1. Same goes for 17-1 and 29-1....I'm starting to wonder if the problematic Philly stations will "reach" me when it's colder out...seems that the night's I've been able to pick those channels up (6/17/29-1) have been the super cold nights. And now, with this wet, heavy snow, I can only hope that the stuff melts by Saturday---because I can't wait to try out the CM 3041DSB!!! Then I hear rain for Sunday :mad:

Stop the madness!!!!

At least CBS 3 (KYW-DT) is a solid 100 so the wife can watch CSI. Interestingly UPN 57 is also a solid 100. I'm trying to rationalize that one. Are they the only two operating at full power?

Looking on
100000watts website (http://www.100000watts.com/tv/PHL.html) shows the two station lat/long's being a bit different...but "controlled" by the same company. I'm grasping for straws here.....
:p

Jaypb,
I've done what the others have suggested. The connector with twin leads is screwed onto the 3023 terminals and then I have RG-6 coax going from the connnector to the amp. I use quad-shield RG-6, which is supposed to eliminate signal loss when used outdoors.

Best of luck,
Paul

I picked up the 3041DSB from Lowes. I have the Channel Master 4228 antenna.

The results were worse then what I had with my RS amp. But I am using a 300 to 75 ohm transformer to go from the antenna to the cable wire and then another transformer to go into the amplifer.

Can anyone say for sure, this would cause significant signal degradation? If so, I will buy a 300 ohm wire from Radio Shack.

It depends on the quality of the transformers.

I tried doing the opposite with hardware from Home Depot once in order to ensure that ground loops were not a factor in some issues I was having with reception.

Dropped my signal strength on WNYW-DT and WCBS-DT from around 44-49% according to my MyHD tuner card to <25% at all times, usually only 9% or so. (i.e. barely any signal lock, unwatchable.)

I would STRONGLY reccomend minimizing loss as much as possible before the preamp - i.e. buy some twinlead or scrounge it from elsewhere in the house like I did.

Note that strong channels can potentially overload the preamp, so be careful if you live near New Brunswick. WNJB on Channel 58 is running more power than your average PBS station. (1320 kW - Comparable to the Philly analogs and significantly more than the NYC analogs according to www.100000watts.com) I haven't had amp overload issues when running the 3041DSB followed with a 12 dB distribution amp, but when I tried upgrading the dist amp I did, even with an antenna pointed away from NB. If New Brunswick is close to you or in the antenna beamline, it could overload the 3041. Good way to test is to look at channel 58 - In my case the video was completely dead from the sync signals getting clipped. Eventually I'm going to build my own distribution amp with higher output capability than the dist amp I tried. (The max ratings of +56 dBmV for the CM amps translates to approx. +13 dBm, which is the rating of a MiniCircuits MAR-series MMIC. MCL makes another series rated at +18 dBm.)

Beware: LONG!!!

Well, I tried hooking up the CM 3041DSB this afternoon....and she didn't give me anything to write home about. Didn't improve my signal at all. On the contrary, like Pabuwal's experience, it made 'em worse!

While I was up there I tried "Tweaking" my direction a bit to see if that improved anything. A twist here and a nudge there didn't get me anything extra picture wise, but I had the wife on the other end of the cell phone watching the meter on each Philly digital local so I knew where a good spot would be.

Maybe someone can offer a thought on just WHAT my problem(S) is/are. I even added another 5 feet of mast on to see if that improved my signals...no luck. The strengths I had WITHOUT the 5 foot mast were the same when I DID put the 5 foot mast on (bringing the antenna height to around 9-10 feet above roof level (I have a ranch style home)

Strengths:

KYW was rock solid no matter how much tweaking I did---unless I turned it 20-30 degrees in either direction then I went from 100-0.

UPN (57.1) was the same thing. Rock solid. Steady.

WCAU is dead as a door nail!

WPVI---with tweaking I got the strength level to go from a 9 to a 27. But that was it. Not lockable though. Again, even WITH the 5 foot of masting it was still a 27. Yet, this is the same channel that a few nights ago I had a STEADY 56 or so on and was able to watch. Same thing happened Thursday night I believe. Haven't tried it yet this pm yet.

WTXF bumped to a 24 with some tweaking. Still no steady lock though. Same thing when I had it on the mast

WB out of Philly (not sure of call sign---17.1) was only able to hop up to about 20 with some tweaking. No lock.

I also swung the 4228 around towards NY and picked up WCBS at 100 strength. Solid. Big time. Also picked up WNYW (Fox) at about 50 or so. Steady lock. ABC/NBC were dead, 0 on the meter. WB was at a 2 or so. UPN at a 5 to 10.

So, that's where I"m at. I'm going to order the CM 7775, since it seems to be for UHF, has a low DB noise ratio, has a 75 ohm connection...AND Paul hooked one up on his own 4228 and had positive results.

I keep telling myself...trial and error, trial and error.

I had posted a thread earlier today under CM 4228 heading just to find out basically HOW that thing/bowtie/UHF antennas work. That's where I'm at now. I've read up on how digital signals travel and UHF signals as well. But, I'm at the point now where I'm getting consummed by the need to figure out HOW to get the locals I'm able to get (within reason). That and the fact that the little lady is KILLING me over the fact that I can't get NBC from either direction :eek:

Further thoughts?

Jaypb,

Thanks - you just saved me a trip to Lowes tomorrow. Sorry to hear about your results, but since your results before you started were the same as mine, I am going to assume that addinf that preamp is going to have the same reults for me as well.

2 cell phones - thats a great idea ! When I was "tweaking" my CM 4228 in the attic, I borrowed the baby monitor from my 3 yr olds room. My wife was downstairs monitoring the signal, yelling up to me in the attic - i of course could not talk to her.

Look at the bright side - At least you had a great day to be outside, it was only 45 but it sure felt like 65.

Gary

PS

Let me know how u make out with the 7775.
Thanks again for all the valuable information....

Gary

Jay,
Sorry about your disappointing day, but Gary's right- great day to be on the roof! As noted earlier, the 7775 amp made a big difference for me, and I'm about 70 miles as the crow flies from both Philly and NYC (though I get nothing out of NYC). My house is about 800 feet above sea level and my house is 2 stories, so I may have better elevation than you. Still, if the equipment works here in hilly NW Jersey, I gotta believe it will be golden for you in the Central part of the state.
Paul

Originally posted by gjohnsen2002
2 cell phones - thats a great idea ! When I was "tweaking" my CM 4228 in the attic, I borrowed the baby monitor from my 3 yr olds room. My wife was downstairs monitoring the signal, yelling up to me in the attic - i of course could not talk to her.

Look at the bright side - At least you had a great day to be outside, it was only 45 but it sure felt like 65.

Gary

Actually, I took the cell phone idea off another thread I had read about in recent weeks.

And, the weather...yeah, I was lucky. Happily *most* of the snow melted by the time I got up there. And the sun was shining, so that was a plus! Now, if I can JUST get all those people who stare at you when they drive by to NOT do that, things would be soooo much easier :rolleyes:

Originally posted by gjohnsen2002
PS

Let me know how u make out with the 7775.
Thanks again for all the valuable information....

Gary

I"m going to order it this week. Hopefully I can have it by the weekend. I'll probably go with either spectravox.com or warrenelectronics.com. Spectravox had my 4228 to me in 3 days. I'd like to see the same turn around on the pre-amp....if someone has it in stock.

Not sure where to find one locally. CM's website lists their "distributors" locally. Lowe's and Ace Hdware. are mentioned, yet the Lowes I returned the 3041 back to yesterday (different one from where I purchased it) didn't have ANY pre-amps in stock.

So I moved the antenna and replaced the 2 transformers/coax line wih a simple twin lead, 300 ohm line from the antenna to the amplifier. Moved the antenna and bingo! Best reception ever.

Here's what I get -

WCBS 2 CBS NY - 40, 20 improvement
KYW 3 CBS Phil- 70, No change
WNYW 5 Fox NY - 50. No change
WPVI 6 ABC Phil - 64, 10 improvement
WPHL 17 WB Phil - 40. Huge improvement, it was 0 before!!
NJN 52 PBS Trenton - 70, No change
WHYY 13 PBS Phil - 22. Improvement from 0, but not watchable
WTSG 57 UPN Phil - 64. 10 Improvement
Univision 66 Vineland - 50. 10 Improvement

I am 30 miles from NYC and 50 from Phil. My antenna is located in my attic. I have the CM 4228 and the CM 3041DSB preamp.

The net result is I have improved Ch 6 and 57 while finally procuring Ch. 17.

There will be NO reception of NBC until Ch. 10 gets on the new tower. I have given up on Fox 29 as they are still at low power and I receive Ch. 5 just fine.

Originally posted by pabuwal
So I moved the antenna and replaced the 2 transformers/coax line wih a simple twin lead, 300 ohm line from the antenna to the amplifier. Moved the antenna and bingo! Best reception ever.

Here's what I get -

WCBS 2 CBS NY - 40, 20 improvement
KYW 3 CBS Phil- 70, No change
WNYW 5 Fox NY - 50. No change
WPVI 6 ABC Phil - 64, 10 improvement
WPHL 17 WB Phil - 40. Huge improvement, it was 0 before!!
NJN 52 PBS Trenton - 70, No change
WHYY 13 PBS Phil - 22. Improvement from 0, but not watchable
WTSG 57 UPN Phil - 64. 10 Improvement
Univision 66 Vineland - 50. 10 Improvement

I am 30 miles from NYC and 50 from Phil. My antenna is located in my attic. I have the CM 4228 and the CM 3041DSB preamp.

The net result is I have improved Ch 6 and 57 while finally procuring Ch. 17.

There will be NO reception of NBC until Ch. 10 gets on the new tower. I have given up on Fox 29 as they are still at low power and I receive Ch. 5 just fine.

AFA that Ch.10 (WCAU) comment you made...is that a fact? I'm so afused when I read comments that certain peoples (albeit closer to Philly than I) but still NJ residents say they can get channel 10 digitally. I can get it (as I believe you can) analog wise...but not digitally. She's dead as doornail!

Channel 29 I'm hoping for an improvement on somehow....but I guess since you comment that it's at low power I feel better :D
When are they supposed to go "full power"? hopefully before MLB starts in June on Fox?

Channel 5 I'll work on when my rotor comes in.

Did you (or anyone else) experience any "issues" today with the heavy winds? My signals fluctuated heavily on everything but CBS (KYW). I went outside and looked at my CM 4228. She was bobbing and weaving slightly in the wind. Not dangerously mind you, but she was wiggling. Anyway to "control" that? I've thought about going the guy wire route...but even talking to a salesman at RS yesterday led me to believe that it's difficult with the masts that RS sells.

Also...anyone in NJ able to get a digital lock on WHYY? I can't for the life of me. And, also, my e86 recently mapped "44-1"...which is Fox NY. I can pick it up pixelated. But it also maps 5-1 as Fox NY. Is this the same "issue" as the Philly ABC issue (64-1/2 vs 6-1/2)???

And, lastly, I can get a 75 reading on digital channel 34 (WYBE)...but no listing is given for that channel on my E86..hell, I can't even PULL IT UP! Anyone else have an issue like this? It's analog channel 35 (which I can get), but I can't even pull up the digital station.:confused:

Up in Somerset, I won't be able to receive Ch. 10. A few people in South Jersey can receive Ch. 10 with varying degrees of success. Most everybody who does receive it never seem to receive it with any consistency. They should be on the new tower very soon. I heard it was already to go, but the inclement weather prevented it.

If you can receive Ch. 5/44 ok, then forget about 29. They were supposed to be on the new tower last September, then this Spring and now someone (JWhip?) was reporting they would be on the new tower next year!

My antenna is in the attic, so I haven't noticed too many signal problems with the wind.

Like I said before, the Philadelphia Digital situation must rank among the worst among the top 10 markets. Only 3 (UPN, CBS, ABC) of 7 channels can be consistently received by most of the analog audience. The other 4 (WB, FOX, NBC, PBS) are broadcasting, but are generally not viewable by the same audience who can clearly receive their analog signals!

Regarding the NYC situation, there are reports the remainder of the channels may start transmitting from ESB by this summer, but that seems to slip all the time also.

I'm down in Freehold township and the only Philadelphia digital station I can get consistanly is KYW. I can pick up most of the Philadelphia analogs except KYW go figure.

I also pick up WCBS-DT, WWOR-DT, WNYW-DT and WNJU-DT.

pabuwal


I am up in northern Somerset County (Basking Ridge) and I do receive 10-1 NBC since I upgraded to the Channel Master pre-amp discussed earlier in this threat. Unless your location is poor you may want to look into it. The Lowes in Piscataway should be too far away.

Originally posted by tonyo123
pabuwal


I am up in northern Somerset County (Basking Ridge) and I do receive 10-1 NBC since I upgraded to the Channel Master pre-amp discussed earlier in thisthreat. Unless your location is poor you may want to look into it. The Lowes in Piscataway should be too far away.

Are you saying this is a threat??? :p

The oddness that is digital reception will continue to make me have the desire to conquer it! I had the feeling "going in" to this thing that it would be a prolonged effort. Concentrating on not one but [i]TWO[i] cities has made it more difficult!

But, my mindset is, if the signal is out there, I want it!

Now I've just got to figure out the best way to get it!

:confused:

Originally posted by wward
I'm down in Freehold township and the only Philadelphia digital station I can get consistanly is KYW. I can pick up most of the Philadelphia analogs except KYW go figure.

I also pick up WCBS-DT, WWOR-DT, WNYW-DT and WNJU-DT.

For me, Freehold is the closest that I've seen someone currently posting AFA receiving digital signals. None of neighbors are playing the OTA game and I haven't spoken to anyone in my "area" who has an HD setup. Speaking to a salesman at RS in the East Brunswick mall has been the closest I've come feedback wise. He concurred on the difficulty in receiving WCAU as well as the big two (NBC/ABC) from NYC. Everything else, according to him, was trial and error basically.

hat works for one person won't always work for someone else. Or so I was told.

Originally posted by pabuwal
If you can receive Ch. 5/44 ok, then forget about 29. They were supposed to be on the new tower last September, then this Spring and now someone (JWhip?) was reporting they would be on the new tower next year!

I assume that Fox will be broadcasting MLB in their "enhanced widescreen mode"???

I plan on having the rotor up by the end of the month and the pre-amp as well and then I'll go from there.


Regarding the NYC situation, there are reports the remainder of the channels may start transmitting from ESB by this summer, but that seems to slip all the time also. [/QUOTE]

Seems it's all a closely guarded, conjecture based mystery eh? I honestly never paid attention to the whole HD/Digital TV debates until I was ready to jump into the pool.

Now I can't get enough :D

As to the 7775 vs. the 3041 DSB - The 3041 is specced at 3 dB gain less and .2 dB noise figure more than the 7775. (High gain and low NF are both good).

The 3041DSB has separate amplifier circuits for VHF and UHF, so for UHF signals you can consider it to be a UHF-only amplifier.

There are VERY few situations where an amplifier can make a signal worse. Of those, the most likely problem you will run into by far is intermodulation. This occurs when the amplifier is overdriven to the point where it becomes nonlinear (and in the worst of cases, starts clipping the signal.) Essentially, if one strong station (For example, WNJB in New Brunswick is running 1.3 megawatts according to www.100000watts.com on UHF channel 58) drives the amplifier into clipping, then it will ruin reception on ALL channels. In the analog domain, the strong station will appear like a ghost in the background of weaker stations when you tune them. Also, in extreme cases, the strong station will become completely garbled due to the sync signals being clipped. This happened to me when I tried to follow my 3041 with a distribution amp that had too much gain. (I dropped back to the old lower-gain distribution amp and everything became better.)

Before returning the 3041 and ordering the 7775, do a comparison of HOW the signal got worse. Specifically:
a) Is New Brunswick in the same direction as the antenna is pointed? If you're close to NB, even 90 degrees or more off could be problematic.
b) How does reception change on your analogs? Does it appear like another channel is interfering with them? Does the interfering image look like what a known strong station in the area is broadcasting? (For example, if it's early morning and there's a ghost image of Barney interfering with the Today Show on NBC, and when you tune to Ch58, you hear that damn dinosaur's voice crystal clear, then WNJB is overloading your amp.)
c) In the case of Ch58 WNJB, does putting the amp in line cause the set to completely or partially lose sync with the signal?

If you run these tests and it seems to be intermod, return the 3041. Do NOT order a 7775 - It has 3 dB more gain but only 1 dB more output amplitude capability, in an intermod situation it will perform WORSE.

In such a case, I believe Lowes carries a distribution amplifier with 12 dB gain. Not the best preamp, but it will be an improvement over raw antenna and it will be far less likely to get overloaded. Distribution amps are typically designed to have lower gain and higher output capability.

Edit: As far as communications while aligning antennas - FRS radios work great. My family has a huge collection of them that we use for family vacations.

Originally posted by pabuwal
So I moved the antenna and replaced the 2 transformers/coax line wih a simple twin lead, 300 ohm line from the antenna to the amplifier. Moved the antenna and bingo! Best reception ever.

Here's what I get -

WCBS 2 CBS NY - 40, 20 improvement
KYW 3 CBS Phil- 70, No change
WNYW 5 Fox NY - 50. No change
WPVI 6 ABC Phil - 64, 10 improvement
WPHL 17 WB Phil - 40. Huge improvement, it was 0 before!!
NJN 52 PBS Trenton - 70, No change
WHYY 13 PBS Phil - 22. Improvement from 0, but not watchable
WTSG 57 UPN Phil - 64. 10 Improvement
Univision 66 Vineland - 50. 10 Improvement

I am 30 miles from NYC and 50 from Phil. My antenna is located in my attic. I have the CM 4228 and the CM 3041DSB preamp.

The net result is I have improved Ch 6 and 57 while finally procuring Ch. 17.

There will be NO reception of NBC until Ch. 10 gets on the new tower. I have given up on Fox 29 as they are still at low power and I receive Ch. 5 just fine. I'm in Piscataway with a Samsung SIR-T150. I can get CBS, FOX and UPN all with just a Zenith Silver Sensor antenna inside. You should be able to pick up UPN NYC no problem with your setup.

Maybe we should get together and do some testing. I'm looking an the Winegard HD-7084P antenna and the Winegard AP-8700 Amp for Philly. I'd be interested in checking out your setup and I can bring my compass, my Samsung and the Zenith and we can flail around helplessly. :D

I was told that height was very important and that you should move your antenna up and down on the mast and mark the best height. I need to look for a rotor. Right now all I have is the Silver Sensor and a RS Attic antenna with a 10db inline preamp that both go into an A/B switch and then into my receiver. I did this because I don't have a rotor on the antenna on the roof and this way I can easily switch between the roof antenna and the indoor one. Obviously I can turn the indoor one and move it around in attempts to pick up something other than what I'm getting.

All I'm getting right now are NYC channels CBS, FOX and UPN. The only one out of those three with HD is CBS. All the rest of NYC is in limbo since the 911 attack so Philly is our best bet.

From what I understand we're about 22miles from NYC and 55 from Philly.

Out of curiosity:

I may be designing a dedicated UHF antenna for receiving the NYC digitals. Essentially, sacrificing performance below Ch44 in order to obtain high gain at a small size for 44 and 56 only. Would anyone be interested in the design?

I will likely be building one, but it's not definite. I'm still deciding. It will be a log-periodic design based on the LPDA design chapter of the ARRL Antenna Book. Similar to a Silver Sensor except longer and dedicated to the higher UHF channels.

I've written a Perl script that does most of the calculations necessary and will be posting it to the forums shortly.

Preliminary info:
Length: 2.54 feet
Elements: 11
Gain: Approx 9-10 dBi (CM 4228 is 12 dBd = around 14.2 dBi)
Covers channels 43-58 (approx.)

Comparatively, a full-coverage (14-58) antenna with the same gain would be 5 feet long and need 19 elements.

Edit: OT question - For those who use NYC as their primary source of broadcast TV, what is OTA Ch11 analog like for you? I've found that no matter what I do, WPIX always has pretty nasty interference on the channel, I don't know if it's local or not. (Z100's second harmonic happens to lie smack dab in the middle of Ch11.) Although I guess these days most people here are only focusing on UHF OTA HD and obtaining everything else via satellite or cable - I myself would be using DirecTV if it weren't for $1200 worth of tree removal between my house and LOS on their satellite.

I live in Manalapan and on Saturday I had a 14' roof antenna, rotor, and pre-amp/amp installed. I am able to get FOX, and CBS out of NY and ABC, CBS, FOX, UPN out of Philly. I had gotten NBC, but yeterday it was not available.

Ken

Originally posted by ken6217
I live in Manalapan and on Saturday I had a 14' roof antenna, rotor, and pre-amp/amp installed. I am able to get FOX, and CBS out of NY and ABC, CBS, FOX, UPN out of Philly. I had gotten NBC, but yeterday it was not available.

Ken

Ken,

Is your PHILLY ABC signal steady without pixelation and dropouts? For some reason I only seem to get ABC on seriously cold nights and/or freezing AM's since I put the antenna up on 3/2. I checked the house before I left today this AM and ABC was still coming in steady and the WB had jumped up to a 65 on my Hughes E86 strength meter. I was even able to watch that UNIVISION channel (58 digital).

Anyone with a Hughes able to get a signal strength on digital channel 34...but NOT have it show up in the guide?? For some reason I have a 100 strength on digital channel 34, but I can't for the life of my figure out which digital channel it is...even AFTER doing scans and re-entering in zipcodes.

Weird!

Ch34 is WYBE-DT (http://www.wybe.org/) - Looks like a public television station, although no PBS affiliate logos anywhere. Running 500 kW at 1100 feet or so according to www.100000watts.com

Maybe they haven't completely gotten their digital station up and running...

Originally posted by Entropy512
Ch34 is WYBE-DT (http://www.wybe.org/) - Looks like a public television station, although no PBS affiliate logos anywhere. Running 500 kW at 1100 feet or so according to www.100000watts.com

Maybe they haven't completely gotten their digital station up and running...

I believe it's analog 35...at least I'm remembing letters along those lines in my E86 guide that I unchecked from the lineup. Analog comes in very static laden, but for some reason I can't tune into a "34" on the digital counterpart---although it's a 100 signal on the meter. Just figured I'd ask.

Also, I noticed since I went up on the roof and futzed around with my 4228, 43-2 (which has the HD content for whichever PBS station that is), although it still shows a 100 on the meter, when watching program has pixelation (kind of like a digital shmear) every 60 or so seconds. No drop outs or anything like that...but just irritating pixels that pop up here and there. Found it odd that the meter was a steady 100 (no fluctuations when I sat and observed the strength screen) so I'm not sure what I did to make it happen.

Out of curiousity, should RG-6 cable running from my satellite antenna "interfere" in any way with the CM4228 RG-6 if they are coming into the house through the same entry point? Two totally separate cables mind you. I was just curious because I've been reading posts/info about how you shouldn't run rotor cables through the same entry point as your antenna wiring and I was curious as to whether the same is true of satellite wiring next to OTA antenna wiring.

Shouldn't be an issue at all. If it were twinlead, that would be Very Bad, but in the case of coaxial cable, there should be NO signal on the outside of the outer shield. In fact, many people put ferrites on their coax to ensure that no such currents flow. (This is almost critical when feeding some antenna designs without a balun - Very common in WLAN collinear designs.)

In fact, theoretically if you connected the outer shields together it shouldn't make a difference and might actually be an improvement. (An example would be the dual-terminal grounding blocks some manufacturers sell.)

Jayby,

It has been steady however I haven't watched that much tv at all since I had the installation. I will check it out tonight and let you know. Does anyone know why there is a problem with NBC out of Philly for us?

Ken

NBC out of Philly is operating lower power and from a lower height than most other stations according to www.100000watts.com - I've seen MANY reports on this forum of NBC being problematic for many people.

Last night was the probably THE best night for HD/Digital TV viewing since I put up my antenna.

Philly WB came in---but for some reason that "Everwood" show was in 4:3 and not 16:9---hdtvgalaxy shows it as an "HD" show.

Philly Fox came in although there was nothing work watching :D

Philly CBS, as always, came in...with the whole lineup being in HD

Philly ABC was in the WHOLE night....the Practice was on in 720P--although I wasn't too impressed with the picture.

66-1 Univision, Spanish---came in. Seemed to be in SD mode and stretched. Was happy to get a solid lock so I viewed it :p

43-2...the HD demo loop...I didn't have that "shmear" of pixelation every 60 seconds or so that I had on Saturday and Sunday...maybe it was the wind since it was less windy yesterday.

I'm interested in seeing how much my signal strength will drop when it gets warmer out. I'm noticing that the BEST viewing nights (i.e. when almost ALL the digital channels are viewable) for me have been clear/cold nights.

Once I get the pre-amp (which I still haven't ordered) up maybe that'll make it all moot.

I noticed an improvement on WB 17 last night also (signal strength of 55)!

The Practice PQ stunk. Much worse then earlier this season. It has to be the subchannel.

My understanding is 720P requires more bandwidth then 1080i. It would make sense this is the channel that could least afford to give up any bandwidth.

It doesn't make sense that this is the channel that actually gives up the bandwidth. There is no reason at all for this subchannel.

I did check ABC out of Pilly last night and I did get it without any breakup or pixelation. Last night was my first real night watching since I had the antenna set up. I watched CSI Miami on a 92" Stewarts screen and it was great.

Ken

I figured I'd mention two cool site that some of you *may* not know about.

www.hdtvpub.com

You can go here, put in your zip and find which stations are broadcasting in the area...or go to a city close by and see which cities are broadcasting (for us that would be Philly and NYC) and you can click on the "more info" button for those stations that come up and it gives you some useful info (power, tower location, height of tower---kind of like 100000watts.com but I think it's a little "neater" looking) and you can read about those in your zip, city, county, DMA who have received HD/DT signals.

Also found this cool link...although it's pretty technical. You can put in the station call letters or a conundrum of other info and get some specs on teh tower:

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/video/tvq.html

Enjoy!

Does *anybody* know where a ChannelMaster 4228 and CM 3041DSB (or equivalent) pre-amp are available for purchase in the Central NJ area? I'd rather not buy on-line, but it looks like that is the only option.

I've tried Lowe's in Piscataway (no outdoor antennas whatsoever) and the only pre-amps were el cheapo varieties. Also tried a couple of Ace/True Value hardware stores (no, don't stock them, but you can order them from a catalog....big whoop).

Any other possibilities?

TIA,
SteveK

Originally posted by SteveK2
Does *anybody* know where a ChannelMaster 4228 and CM 3041DSB (or equivalent) pre-amp are available for purchase in the Central NJ area? I'd rather not buy on-line, but it looks like that is the only option.

I've tried Lowe's in Piscataway (no outdoor antennas whatsoever) and the only pre-amps were el cheapo varieties. Also tried a couple of Ace/True Value hardware stores (no, don't stock them, but you can order them from a catalog....big whoop).

Any other possibilities?

TIA,
SteveK

I know the Lowe's in Old Bridge (Rte 9) and the Lowe's in Marlboro (also Rte 9) had at least 1 3041DSB each as of 3/9....I took the 2nd to last one from the OB store and returned the same one to the Marlboro store this past weekend:D

AFA local retailers...that I'm not sure of. There's a place on Rte 18 (East Brunswick) called "Innovative Installations" ...but they told me they don't sell to the public...only sales/installations. CM's website lists a retailer over in Hazlet I believe on Rte 34. Check the channelmaster website and look for their distributors page. I believe there were a few retailers in NJ listed there. I bought mine from spectravox and I just ordered a CM7775 pre-amp from warren electronics online.

What channels are you able to get right now with your current setup? I have a CM 4228 and I'm pretty happy with it. I think the limitations I have so far with reception are more location/transmitter specific than antenna specific.

Had already checked Channel Master's site....only distributor specific to NJ was the one in Hazlet (Rte 34 or 36). Otherwise everyone listed was a 'nationa' chain like Ace/True Hardware and Lowe's.

Right now, I'm using the "magic" antenna. 30' of old RG59 (the original cabling inside my house's basement) with a connector at one end and about 12" of exposed copper conductor at the other.

With that arrangement, I've received signal strength of 69% for WCBS (2-1) and 36% for WNYW/WWOR (5-1, 5-2). I exposed about 10" of the aluminum (I think) braid (just took off the outer plastic layer) and was able to pull-in NJN (43-1, 43-2) out of Trenton with a 20% signal.

Would like to be able to set-up an antenna in the attic (gonna try the CM 4228) to get the Philly channels.

Will probably try one or two more Lowe's (via phone)....if that doesn't work out, then I'll probably go the on-line route.

Why did you return the 3041 pre-amp???

SteveK

www.starkelectronic.com will do the trick for you. I called them and ordered over the phone and received my antenna and the 7775 amp in 3 days.

Paul,
Just ordered the CM4228 and CM 7775 from Stark Electronics. Said they'll ship today. According to UPS transit times....should arrive tomorrow. I'll settle for Friday so I have it for the weekend.

Anybody have any specific hints/tips about connecting the CM4428 and CM7775?

SteveK

Originally posted by SteveK2
Right now, I'm using the "magic" antenna. 30' of old RG59 (the original cabling inside my house's basement) with a connector at one end and about 12" of exposed copper conductor at the other.

With that arrangement, I've received signal strength of 69% for WCBS (2-1) and 36% for WNYW/WWOR (5-1, 5-2). I exposed about 10" of the aluminum (I think) braid (just took off the outer plastic layer) and was able to pull-in NJN (43-1, 43-2) out of Trenton with a 20% signal.

Steve,

What kind of receiver are you using? And are you getting consistent signals without dropouts at the signal strength you quoted above? Mine seem to only hold steady (with unnoticeable/non-bothersome dropouts) with a 55% or so signal on my Hughes E86. I know the signal strength isn't uniform across all STB's and it really isn't a TRUE measure of strength...but I was just curious.

Last night Philly WB wasn't giving me a picture and WPVI ABC was pixelated and for the most part unwatchable. But 66-1 (Spanish Univision) was still there...oh joy! :D

And, for a faint second, I had a signal strength of "6" for the ever elusive WCAU (10-1). Maybe she'll magically appear in the near future :confused:

Either way, it seems it's a nightly mystery what I'll be able to receive from Philly when I get home other than the rock solid UPN and CBS and 43-1/2/3/4....and, to reiterate, this seems to be the norm from Philly for us Central NJ'ians.

My personal experience is that when it's cold out and clear, I can get pretty much everything from Philly wiht the exception of WCAU (10-1).

I'm waiting for my rotor and CM 7775 pre-amp to come in. Hopefully it'll be here by the weekend.

Would like to be able to set-up an antenna in the attic (gonna try the CM 4228) to get the Philly channels.

I have the 4228. It's a pretty decent antenna---though I've got nothing to compare it to ;)

I haven't tried moving it around the roof to see if I'd get better reception in certain areas, but where she is she gets CBS and UPN from Philly at 100% EVERY NIGHT. And, when I tested it by turning towards NYC one afternoon I picked up WCBS and Fox-5. I've read that WPIX will start their 24 hour programming DT channel next week---but it'll be low power and I'm not sure if we'll be able to get it where *most* of us are.

Will probably try one or two more Lowe's (via phone)....if that doesn't work out, then I'll probably go the on-line route.

Why did you return the 3041 pre-amp???

I returned it because it didn't improve my reception. I probably didn't play around with it long enough. The 4228 has a balun connector/transformer (establishes a connection between the antenna itself and the 75 ohm rg-6 i'm using) and the 3041DSB had a 300ohm twin lead connection. Maybe I went wrong there. I don't know. The Cm7775 has a 75 ohm input and output so I'm hoping that will be a bit easier and more receptive to my 4228.

We'll see.

What kind of receiver are you using? And are you getting consistent signals without dropouts at the signal strength you quoted above? Mine seem to only hold steady (with unnoticeable/non-bothersome dropouts) with a 55% or so signal on my Hughes E86. I know the signal strength isn't uniform across all STB's and it really isn't a TRUE measure of strength...but I was just curious.

Using a Samsung SIR-T160 (Directv/Cable/OTA) receiver. WCBS is rock steady picture-wise....I've seen signal fluctuations from 66% down to 33% every few seconds...but doesn't seem to affect picture quality. If the fluctuation is down to 20%, will get an occasional picture breakup. But its very watchable.

The coax antenna is a freebie and its non-directional. So I was just glad to receive any picture at all.

SteveK

I posted a while back in this thread I would be installing the following: Televes Dat 75 roof-mounted antenna, CM 7775 preamp, rotor, all feeding a Zenith 520 STB into a Fujitsu 50" Plasma.

I'm in Montgomery Township, Somerset County, near the border of Mercer county, about 60 miles form Phila and 40 miles from NYC.

I'm pleased to report I'm able to get all Phila networks with strong digital signals, and a stunning picture. Signal varies on ABC and NBC from good to excellent. CBS is always excellent. I'm also able to get NYC - Fox and CBS using the rotor.

I'm extremely pleased with the picture, setup, and reception. Up til now, I've used Tivo as my D* source, but I'm too awed with the glorious OTA HDTV out of the Zenith 520 to go back to my SD Tivo.!

I'm pleased to report I'm able to get all Phila networks with strong digital signals, and a stunning picture. Signal varies on ABC and NBC from good to excellent. CBS is always excellent. I'm also able to get NYC - Fox and CBS using the rotor.

thomasgs,

Congratulations, neighbor, on getting your antenna and preamp installed. I'm glad to see you were able to get your installation working so well. Enjoy!

RayN

Originally posted by thomasgs
I posted a while back in this thread I would be installing the following: Televes Dat 75 roof-mounted antenna, CM 7775 preamp, rotor, all feeding a Zenith 520 STB into a Fujitsu 50" Plasma.

I'm in Montgomery Township, Somerset County, near the border of Mercer county, about 60 miles form Phila and 40 miles from NYC.

I'm pleased to report I'm able to get all Phila networks with strong digital signals, and a stunning picture. Signal varies on ABC and NBC from good to excellent. CBS is always excellent. I'm also able to get NYC - Fox and CBS using the rotor.

I'm extremely pleased with the picture, setup, and reception. Up til now, I've used Tivo as my D* source, but I'm too awed with the glorious OTA HDTV out of the Zenith 520 to go back to my SD Tivo.!

Glad to see you are up and running. I know I've found myself on Monday nights watching pretty much EVERYTHING on CBS just for the HD content :D

Also glad to hear you are able to get WCAU (NBC) as most folks in NJ aren't.

How high off the roof is your antenna? Did you do it yourself? My wife just told me my rotor (CM9021A I think) came in the mail today from spectravox.com. Hopefully the CM775 I ordered gets here before Saturday...and we don't get any snow tomorrow like I've heard the weatherheads talking about :mad:

Are you able to pick up WHYY from Philly/Delaware??? Think it's 12-1? There's also a digital channel on 34 I believe...that doesn't give me ANY picture or lock...but my meter strength shows 100. Can't remember the name of it off the top of my head, but it's somewhere buried in this thread

Originally posted by SteveK2
The coax antenna is a freebie and its non-directional. So I was just glad to receive any picture at all.

SteveK

That's pretty cool. Can you pick up analog signals like that too?

Very snowy analog VHF channels out of NYC. NJN/PBS out of Trenton and New Brunswick are pretty good, but not crystal.

This is definately where a digital signal shines. No need for 100% strength to lock on a signal and produce a beautiful picture.

SteveK

I am finally getting NBC in Hi Def tonight out of Philly. I lost it for a couple of days.

Ken- Manalapan

I am getting it too!!
I am pretty sure they have finally moved to the new tower, because I was not seeing any sign of WCAU-DT just until last night.

I'm not sure about the new tower- perhaps its due to favorable atmospheric conditions- all of the Philly stations are coming in solid for me tonight. Even WCAU- I'm getting a signal strength of 65, which is highly unusual. If it is the new tower, all I can say is that it's about time!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jaypb
[B]Glad to see you are up and running. I know I've found myself on Monday nights watching pretty much EVERYTHING on CBS just for the HD content :D

Also glad to hear you are able to get WCAU (NBC) as most folks in NJ aren't.

Yes, NBC and all Phila stations are very strong tonight.


How high off the roof is your antenna? Did you do it yourself? My wife just told me my rotor (CM9021A I think) came in the mail today from spectravox.com.

My antenna is 10 feet above the high point on roof line. I am also using the CM 9021a rotor. I had an installer due the job.


Are you able to pick up WHYY from Philly/Delaware??? Think it's 12-1? There's also a digital channel on 34 I believe...that doesn't give me ANY picture or lock...


Yes, I get 12-1 from Phila. Nothing comes in on 34.

Originally posted by ken6217
I am finally getting NBC in Hi Def tonight out of Philly. I lost it for a couple of days.

Ken- Manalapan

I'm still getting just a faint heartbeat on WCAU....think I registered a 3 tonight :D

If the wife found out that someone a few towns over is watching Law and Order in HD she'd throw my @ss up on the roof and tell me not to come down until I locked on that damn DT signal :p

Tonight I was getting FOX/UPN out of NY with the CM4228 pointed towards Philly, so there must've been something odd in the air tonight :confused:

I also noticed whislt watching ABC Philly (either 6-1 or 64-1) that the sound was horrifically low. Almost a whisper. My signal strength was almost 65 and I had no pixelation.

Weird. :confused:

Originally posted by PaulM9999
I'm not sure about the new tower- perhaps its due to favorable atmospheric conditions- all of the Philly stations are coming in solid for me tonight. Even WCAU- I'm getting a signal strength of 65, which is highly unusual. If it is the new tower, all I can say is that it's about time!

Yeah, it might only be a power upgrade (restore?) or weather, but I was so excited to pull in NBC for the first time.
WCAU-DT just came up out of the blue tonight using the same indoor Silver Sensor (first floor living room), about 35 miles away.
No hint of FOX.. and this why I suspect WCAU-DT moved to the new tower.

Just hope it will last-
It's so great to watch Jay Leno in widescreen HD.

Just tried it and was unable to receive. All the other Philly stations were in the 60s.

Hopefully they are in the testing phase and they will be at full power for 24 hours by next week.

Originally posted by pabuwal
Just tried it and was unable to receive. All the other Philly stations were in the 60s.

Hopefully they are in the testing phase and they will be at full power for 24 hours by next week.

May be time to post the Q on the philly thread...but the reason I tried NOT to post stuff under there was because.....I'm out in the middle of NJ :D

Seems like a lot of folks on that thread are "within earshot" of Philly and there's the dozen or so NJ'ers who are even closer than most of us are.

Also--anyone notice an audio problem during that "American Girl" show on WPVI last night (ABC PHilly)??? Think that was the name of the show....I had barely a whisper coming out of my speakers...on 6-1/6-2/64-1 and 64-2.

:confused:

NBC Philly update from Manalapan- Lat night was so-so. I got it for most of the night. Theer were times where I would lose it but get it back.

Ken

Originally posted by ken6217
NBC Philly update from Manalapan- Lat night was so-so. I got it for most of the night. Theer were times where I would lose it but get it back.

Ken

Bounced in and out. Probably, IMHO, weather related. Also noticed that I didn't get a very high quality picture on CBS shows out of Philly last night. CSI and Without a Trace looked....muddled. Wonder if these were re-runs/older episodes not shot in True HD??? First time I watched either one.

I also have DirecTV...and on 199 (HDNET) they had a Barry Manilow (:o ) concert on....and, as usual, their PQ was stunning. Maybe it was just my eyes deceiving me as I bounced back and forth from 199 to 3-1?

:confused:

Also noticed that I didn't get a very high quality picture on CBS shows out of Philly last night. CSI and Without a Trace looked....muddled. Wonder if these were re-runs/older episodes not shot in True HD??? First time I watched either one.

I agree...and I watched the WCBS (2-1) digital feed out of NYC.

Got my CM 4228 & CM 7775 yesterday from Stark Electronic and will install in attic over the weekend. With the all hooked up and sitting on my living room floor, was able to get 77% signal on 2-1 NYC and 100% of NJ (43-1/2/3/4) out of Trenton(?).

BTW...I highly recommend Stark....ordered via telephone on Wednesday @12:30PM. Got a tracking number within 30 minutes and the equipment arrived overnight via standard UPS (Worcester, MA to Somerset, NJ).

Originally posted by SteveK2
I agree...and I watched the WCBS (2-1) digital feed out of NYC.

Got my CM 4228 & CM 7775 yesterday from Stark Electronic and will install in attic over the weekend. With the all hooked up and sitting on my living room floor, was able to get 77% signal on 2-1 NYC and 100% of NJ (43-1/2/3/4) out of Trenton(?).

BTW...I highly recommend Stark....ordered via telephone on Wednesday @12:30PM. Got a tracking number within 30 minutes and the equipment arrived overnight via standard UPS (Worcester, MA to Somerset, NJ).

I received my CM 4228 from them 3 days after I ordered it. I'm waiting on the CM7775 I ordered from Stark on Tuesday. *Hope* it gets here today as I'd like to put it up tomorrow.

The CM rotor (9521a) I ordered from Warren Electronics reached me in 3 days as well. I want to put em all up at the same time so I'm hoping the pre-amp gets here today!

AFA the 43-1/2/3/4 Trenton stations......let me know if you experience anything odd whilst viewing. Last night while on 43-2 (usually the HD loop channel) I was getting the audio from 43-3 with the video from 43-1. I wonder if this is an "issue" with multi-casting? It was the first time I noticed it. I also have had a problem in the last week where although my signal strength is 100 for 43, I get pixelations everynow and then....but I have no ghosting (multipath symptoms?) on the analog feed for that channel.

Ah, the beauties of figuring out OTA reception!

The worst part is----you guys are the only ones I can bounce this stuff off of! No neighbors partake in these reindeer games, no relatives in the area. Just convinced a friend to go the HD route, but he's in Manhattan and is getting his HD feeds from TWC....so he can't have the kind of fun I/we are :p

Now I'm beginning to think that the 43-1/2/3/4 feed I was picking up yesterday evening was really from New Brunswick and not Trenton. I did not see the HDTV loop at all last night. 43/1/2/4 had the regular NJN programming (in SD) and 43/3 has PBSYou. No HD content at all.

Also, I picked up the channels even though the antenna was pointed at NYC ---directly opposite direction from Trenton.

Not worried, though. Will post back after mounting the equipment in the attic and have done a proper directional orientation.

Originally posted by SteveK2
Now I'm beginning to think that the 43-1/2/3/4 feed I was picking up yesterday evening was really from New Brunswick and not Trenton. I did not see the HDTV loop at all last night. 43/1/2/4 had the regular NJN programming (in SD) and 43/3 has PBSYou. No HD content at all.

Also, I picked up the channels even though the antenna was pointed at NYC ---directly opposite direction from Trenton.

Not worried, though. Will post back after mounting the equipment in the attic and have done a proper directional orientation.
Ch43 is either Camden or Trenton.

New Brunswick (WNJB) is Ch58 analog and will be Ch8 digital - Not on the air yet (this might have changed - They're supposed to go on-air VERY soon.)

Thanks, Entropy.

I've received the Trenton NJN feeds before (43-1/2) using only my coax antenna and 43-2 always had the HD loop. So I was pretty surprised that none of the 43's had the HD loop last night.

Any ideas?

Originally posted by Entropy512
Ch43 is either Camden or Trenton.

New Brunswick (WNJB) is Ch58 analog and will be Ch8 digital - Not on the air yet (this might have changed - They're supposed to go on-air VERY soon.)

I believe it's Trenton---but there are SOOOO many damn PBS stations in NJ I'm not sure of the call letters...that and the fact that my E86 still lists it as "43-1/2/3/4" without a guide/call listing :mad: But, I think that's a PSIP (or something like that) issue.

Ch58 PBS (8 digital) is, according to antennaweb, supposed to go live on 4/1/03. Will Ch 8 come in via a UHF antenna? I know I can pick up analog 10 with my 4228 from Philly pretty decently....and New Brunswick is only about 8 miles or so as the crow flies from me....so I'm interested in seeing if she comes in.

Also:

Originally posted by SteveK2
Now I'm beginning to think that the 43-1/2/3/4 feed I was picking up yesterday evening was really from New Brunswick and not Trenton. I did not see the HDTV loop at all last night. 43/1/2/4 had the regular NJN programming (in SD) and 43/3 has PBSYou. No HD content at all. [/B]

Last night I didn't notice any HD loop on 43-2...at least whilst I was watching TV (9-11pm or so). But what was on 43-1 video wise was on 43-2...and what was on 43-3 audio wise, was on 43-2. If that makes sense
:D


I didn't do a reboot of my E86, as that was the only oddity I noticed across the board last night.

SteveK2

43-1, 2, 3 & 4 IS WNJT-DT out of Trenton. If you have your guides on it should re-map to 53.

Originally posted by ken6217
NBC Philly update from Manalapan- Lat night was so-so. I got it for most of the night. Theer were times where I would lose it but get it back.

Ken

NBC reception has been pretty good since my T151+SilverSensor started to get it Wednesday.
Though I noticed audio dropouts every 20-30 seconds last night.
Other stations were not stable as well probably due to the rain.

Looks like NBC didn't do any major changes (new tower + full power) according to other folks.
Could it be just the new tower without a power boost?
- Just my wild guess but I cannot explain how I am able to get it out of the blue.
Is HD OTA reception that quirky? :confused:

wward,

I'm using a Samsung TS160 (Directv/OTA/Cable) receiver. No re-mapping that I see. If there's an option for this capability, I haven't found it.:(
But I've only had the box a few days and haven't used it much...so the option may be there somewhere.

Originally posted by jaypb
I believe it's Trenton---but there are SOOOO many damn PBS stations in NJ I'm not sure of the call letters...that and the fact that my E86 still lists it as "43-1/2/3/4" without a guide/call listing :mad: But, I think that's a PSIP (or something like that) issue.

Ch58 PBS (8 digital) is, according to antennaweb, supposed to go live on 4/1/03. Will Ch 8 come in via a UHF antenna? I know I can pick up analog 10 with my 4228 from Philly pretty decently....and New Brunswick is only about 8 miles or so as the crow flies from me....so I'm interested in seeing if she comes in.

Also:



Last night I didn't notice any HD loop on 43-2...at least whilst I was watching TV (9-11pm or so). But what was on 43-1 video wise was on 43-2...and what was on 43-3 audio wise, was on 43-2. If that makes sense
:D


I didn't do a reboot of my E86, as that was the only oddity I noticed across the board last night.
With New Brunswick only 8 miles away even the 4228 should be able to receive a signal, despite it not being within the 4228's optimum frequency range.

Were you one of the people who tried a CM 3041DSB amp and had it make things worse? If New Brunswick is only 8 miles away that would explain things, WNJB's analog station is insanely high-powered according to www.100000watts.com

Originally posted by Entropy512
With New Brunswick only 8 miles away even the 4228 should be able to receive a signal, despite it not being within the 4228's optimum frequency range.

Were you one of the people who tried a CM 3041DSB amp and had it make things worse? If New Brunswick is only 8 miles away that would explain things, WNJB's analog station is insanely high-powered according to www.100000watts.com

Yes, I tried the 3041DSB pre-amp, and I couldn't get ANY signals on ANY channel. So, from that standpoint, I'm not sure if I didn't hook it up right---I mean, doesn't seem that hard to connect and whatnot, but I didn't like having to go from a 300 amp twinlead on the antenna to the amp and then back out with a 75ohm RG6. I checked my connections and they were good...but I couldn't even lock in on anything. I fiddled with it...tried to make it work but I just got frustrated and packed it back up!

Hopefully my 7775 arrives today. I want to test it out this weekend. That's the problem with OTA testing in the winter I guess....if you work a normal 9-5 job, you can't get out on the roof until the weekend!!!:(

Originally posted by jaypb
Yes, I tried the 3041DSB pre-amp, and I couldn't get ANY signals on ANY channel. So, from that standpoint, I'm not sure if I didn't hook it up right---I mean, doesn't seem that hard to connect and whatnot, but I didn't like having to go from a 300 amp twinlead on the antenna to the amp and then back out with a 75ohm RG6. I checked my connections and they were good...but I couldn't even lock in on anything. I fiddled with it...tried to make it work but I just got frustrated and packed it back up!

Hopefully my 7775 arrives today. I want to test it out this weekend. That's the problem with OTA testing in the winter I guess....if you work a normal 9-5 job, you can't get out on the roof until the weekend!!!:(
Sure you can!

I don't know how often I've tweaked my setups in the 2-3 hours between dinner and primetime. Admittedly most of that has been in the attic.

Did you try checking analog channels at all back when the 3041DSB failed you? If you have the same problem with the 7775, check analogs to see if an image is being overlaid onto them, and to see if suddenly WNJB (Ch58 analog) has clear audio but has completely lost video sync. That's a clear sign of overloading/intermod. In that case, you'll have to either a) Stick with no preamp or b) Try a lower-gain preamp, Lowes has a 12 dB gain distribution amp, normally not very good for helping reception, but it'll help a little and since it has 10 dB less gain it's less likely to get overloaded, although at 8 miles from NB even a 12 dB amp with its output capability might get overloaded, in which case there's very little on the commercial market available and there's not much you can do unless you're willing to homebrew something.

I've only done a minimal amount of tweaking so far; being alone it's difficult to keep running between the attic & the living room. And I've not yet done any experimenting with moving the amplifier only to one antenna, but here's what I've got so far:

I'm in Long Branch, NJ (Monmouth County), right on the ocean. The antennas are mounted in the attic of a 3-story townhouse, so they're about 35 feet high and ground level is maybe 20-25 feet above sea level at most.

I have a Channel Master 4228 (UHF) aimed towards Philadelphia combined with a Channel Master 3010 (Stealthtenna) aimed towards NYC. The combined signals are fed into a Channel Master 7777 amplifier using the combined input (I'm not using the VHF-only input on the amplifier; the antennas are combined fully prior to the amplifier).

The antennas are mounted on poles hanging down from the rafters in the center of the attic, towards the northern end of the attic.

Right now I'm receiving:

New York:
2-1 WCBS-DT (channel 56)
5-1,5-2 WNYW-DT (channel 44)

Philadelphia:
3-1 KYW-DT (channel 26)
6-1,6-2 WPVI-DT (channel 64)

Trenton:
43-2,43-2 WNJT-DT (channel 43)

I occasionally see a bit of breakup or a few seconds of signal loss on 6-1/6-2 from Philadelphia. It's gotten better as I've moved the 4228 antenna a bit.

I'm somewhat amazed with the number of analog UHF channels I get signal on. Some are even pretty watchable, including some rather good signals from Philadelphia, and slightly worse from Long Island, and a bunch from northern NJ/NYC. I haven't made a list of them all yet.

If only these digital stations would broadcast at full power...!... or at all, for that matter.

Finally cleared enough of the wife's crap in the attic (mostly empty boxes...what a waste) to make room for the 4228. Its just standing up on the plywood flooring and pointed at Philly.

Without the pre-amp, was able to get KYW (3-1) @30%. Kept wondering why there seemed to be no difference if the pre-amp was plugged into the AC or not. Then I realized DUH that I didn't connect the actual pre-amp at the antenna....DUH...only had the power plugged in. That's what happens when you're excited about a new toy. :rolleyes:

Well, once I corrected that faux-pas, was able to get 6 digital channels from the south west.....3-1 (CBS), 6-1/2 (ABC), 17-1 (WB) but this faded out, 43-1/2 (NJN), 57-1 (UPN), 66-1/2 (Spanish).

Will tweak over the weekend when my assistant (son) isn't too tired to talk on the walkie-talkies. :D

Add:

Philadelphia:
57-1, WPSG-DT (channel 32)

As I was tweaking a bit, I didn't want to rerun the channel scan and lose track of the channels I had gotten in case I lost them, so I was just manually adding, and missed trying that one. :)

I still can't get an NBC or WB station anywhere.

Originally posted by dswallow
Add:

Philadelphia:
57-1, WPSG-DT (channel 32)

As I was tweaking a bit, I didn't want to rerun the channel scan and lose track of the channels I had gotten in case I lost them, so I was just manually adding, and missed trying that one. :)

I still can't get an NBC or WB station anywhere.

WPSG has always come in rock solid for me. Along with CBS. NBC is deader than Elvis and always has been since I hooked up....most folks have the same situation. I got a blip of "3" on my E86 signal meter this week...we had a party :D I'm beginning to wonder if there signal, while weak, may be *somewhat* directional for most of us?

As for WB---I get it ocassionally. Got home last night and WB and the Spanish channel were viewing and decent. Same goes for WPVI (which I"ve noticed my E86 has stopped re-mapping to 64-1/2). I even was able to tune in 5-1/5-2 out of NYC while my CM 4228 was pointed towards Philly (This happens to me on occasion).

I did noticed a few posts late last night on this forum about "trophosphere" phenomenon or something along those lines. Cant' wait to read up on that one :p

Enjoy!

Originally posted by Entropy512
Sure you can!

I don't know how often I've tweaked my setups in the 2-3 hours between dinner and primetime. Admittedly most of that has been in the attic.

I guess that's one of the bene's of running an antennac out of the attic!Ahhh, then there's always the issue of being too dark on the roof, the neighbors not liking my rantings/ravings and flashlights in their windows :(

Did you try checking analog channels at all back when the 3041DSB failed you? If you have the same problem with the 7775, check analogs to see if an image is being overlaid onto them, and to see if suddenly WNJB (Ch58 analog) has clear audio but has completely lost video sync. That's a clear sign of overloading/intermod. In that case, you'll have to either a) Stick with no preamp or b) Try a lower-gain preamp, Lowes has a 12 dB gain distribution amp, normally not very good for helping reception, but it'll help a little and since it has 10 dB less gain it's less likely to get overloaded, although at 8 miles from NB even a 12 dB amp with its output capability might get overloaded, in which case there's very little on the commercial market available and there's not much you can do unless you're willing to homebrew something.

I should've done that. Oddly, right now, Channel 58 out of New Brunswick comes in analog wise just as snowy as channel 12 out of Delaware/Philly. Granted the antenna is facing a whole 255 degrees in a different direction but I should've checked that before. Sadly, the amp didn't show up yesterday and I'm not sure if it was sent regular FedEx or FedEx Ground, which I *believe* delivers residentially on Saturdays.

Originally posted by dswallow
I've only done a minimal amount of tweaking so far; being alone it's difficult to keep running between the attic & the living room. And I've not yet done any experimenting with moving the amplifier only to one antenna, but here's what I've got so far:

I'm in Long Branch, NJ (Monmouth County), right on the ocean. The antennas are mounted in the attic of a 3-story townhouse, so they're about 35 feet high and ground level is maybe 20-25 feet above sea level at most.

I have a Channel Master 4228 (UHF) aimed towards Philadelphia combined with a Channel Master 3010 (Stealthtenna) aimed towards NYC. The combined signals are fed into a Channel Master 7777 amplifier using the combined input (I'm not using the VHF-only input on the amplifier; the antennas are combined fully prior to the amplifier).

The antennas are mounted on poles hanging down from the rafters in the center of the attic, towards the northern end of the attic.

Right now I'm receiving:

New York:
2-1 WCBS-DT (channel 56)
5-1,5-2 WNYW-DT (channel 44)

Philadelphia:
3-1 KYW-DT (channel 26)
6-1,6-2 WPVI-DT (channel 64)

Trenton:
43-2,43-2 WNJT-DT (channel 43)

I occasionally see a bit of breakup or a few seconds of signal loss on 6-1/6-2 from Philadelphia. It's gotten better as I've moved the 4228 antenna a bit.

I'm somewhat amazed with the number of analog UHF channels I get signal on. Some are even pretty watchable, including some rather good signals from Philadelphia, and slightly worse from Long Island, and a bunch from northern NJ/NYC. I haven't made a list of them all yet.

If only these digital stations would broadcast at full power...!... or at all, for that matter.

I concur with you on the analog situation. It's pretty cool isn't it? :D
I can remember when I was growing up as a kid (not that long ago) I lived in Staten Island....about 20 miles or so away from most of Central NJ. I used to be able to pick up Philly UHF stations with a simple hoop UHF antenna and I thought that was the wildest thing. Made me a 6'ers fan big time!

Let me know if you notice anything "strange" with the 43-1/2/3/4 signal out of Trenton. Lately, while watching 43-2 (the HD loop demo channel) I get frequent pixelations and green "shmears" of color. Yet my strenght is ALWAYS 100 on my "meter". Also, I noticed even this AM I'm getting audio from 43-3 on channel 43-2...with the video from 43-2 playing.

Odd. I did a reboot of my E86 and reloaded/scanned for channels again, but it didn't solve it.

That channel 43-2 has some STUNNING HD demos. Countryside shots and shots of Italy and stuff. Amazing.

I compare it to the clarity of programming that HDNet has on Directv.

Thanks for the post and keep us updated. I wonder if you'd get Long Island channels if you were able to get that combo 4228/7777 on the roof?

Are you Central Jersey guys able to pick up WPIX-DT at all or is their power to low? I get it at 11-1, others have been getting it on 12 and 12-2. They are broadcasting from 9 a.m to 3 p.m. for the time being (not sure about weekends), but plan to go 24 hours sometime soon. Eventually the channel will settle at 33 I believe. Just wondering if you can get it down there.

Originally posted by sangs
Are you Central Jersey guys able to pick up WPIX-DT at all or is their power to low? I get it at 11-1, others have been getting it on 12 and 12-2. They are broadcasting from 9 a.m to 3 p.m. for the time being (not sure about weekends), but plan to go 24 hours sometime soon. Eventually the channel will settle at 33 I believe. Just wondering if you can get it down there.

Sangs,

My CM 4228 is pointed towards Philly and I haven't had a chance to install my rotor yet---so no, I'm not receiving a signal. I'm sure someone will reply back who has their antenna pointed towards NYC.

I'm venturing a guess that the strength will probably be too low based on the power I saw on that WPIX thread that's running. Are they still only powering up from 9am-3 pm?? I know my signal strengths seem to be much higher for most all stations from sundown to sunrise. I'm expecting much of the same when I finally point towards NYC

Originally posted by sangs
Are you Central Jersey guys able to pick up WPIX-DT at all or is their power to low? I get it at 11-1, others have been getting it on 12 and 12-2. They are broadcasting from 9 a.m to 3 p.m. for the time being (not sure about weekends), but plan to go 24 hours sometime soon. Eventually the channel will settle at 33 I believe. Just wondering if you can get it down there.

My antenna is pointed towards Philly. I receive analog Ch. 12 from Philly so I can not receive WPIX.

I receive WB 17 from Philly so I am covered.

The only network of the 7 I can't receive OTA is NBC. Hopefully that changes soon. I receive CBS, Fox, ABC, WB, UPN and PBS OTA.

Set-up my 4228 in the attic last night and got most of the channels from Philly (see earlier post in this thread).

I'm using a CM7775 pre-amp. Since it has 75ohm coax input, i have to use a balun between the antenna and pre-amp. Would I be better off using something like a CM3041dsb that has a 300-ohn twinlead input?
I think the 7775 has slightly better gain specs, but i'm wondering if that advantage is offset (and even made into a disadvantage) by the use of the balun??

Anyone with some ideas or specific experience trying the 4228 with both the 3041 and the 7775??

TIA,

SteveK

Originally posted by SteveK2
Set-up my 4228 in the attic last night and got most of the channels from Philly (see earlier post in this thread).

I'm using a CM7775 pre-amp. Since it has 75ohm coax input, i have to use a balun between the antenna and pre-amp. Would I be better off using something like a CM3041dsb that has a 300-ohn twinlead input?
I think the 7775 has slightly better gain specs, but i'm wondering if that advantage is offset (and even made into a disadvantage) by the use of the balun??

Anyone with some ideas or specific experience trying the 4228 with both the 3041 and the 7775??

TIA,

SteveK
There's a good chance that the advantage is indeed offset by the balun. It depends on the quality of the balun though - I've seen some baluns with .2-.5 dB insertion loss, practical experience states that many baluns found in stores have significantly more.

Note that increased gain can sometimes be a *bad* thing - Increased gain can cause a preamp to become overloaded. If your current amp is working reasonably well and you live near New Brunswick (and the powerful transmitter WNJB has on Ch58), then you should be very careful about increasing your preamp gain.

Originally posted by SteveK2
Set-up my 4228 in the attic last night and got most of the channels from Philly (see earlier post in this thread).


TIA,

SteveK

Which stations are you getting and what is the signal strength?

Originally posted by sangs
Are you Central Jersey guys able to pick up WPIX-DT at all or is their power to low? I get it at 11-1, others have been getting it on 12 and 12-2. They are broadcasting from 9 a.m to 3 p.m. for the time being (not sure about weekends), but plan to go 24 hours sometime soon. Eventually the channel will settle at 33 I believe. Just wondering if you can get it down there.

Sangs,

Have no rotor on my antenna on the attic - have the 4228 pointer towards Philly,get nada from Philly.

Hey jaypb - did you get the 7775 yet. Me, my wife and my 3 yr old took a trip to Lowes today - they had no CM equipment on the floor.

No pressure, but you are my last hope to get Fox and ABC......

Gary

Here are the Philly channels and their signal strength as of a few minutes ago:
3-1 77%
6-1/2 20% (good lock, though)
43-1/2 86%
57-1 69%
66-1/2 20% (good lock)

HTH,
SteveK

Originally posted by gjohnsen2002
Sangs,

Have no rotor on my antenna on the attic - have the 4228 pointer towards Philly,get nada from Philly.

Hey jaypb - did you get the 7775 yet. Me, my wife and my 3 yr old took a trip to Lowes today - they had no CM equipment on the floor.

No pressure, but you are my last hope to get Fox and ABC......

Gary
It was a bit hard to find. The TV stuff was at the very back of the store, near the center. Same aisle as all the coax and connectors.

I hadn't played around with my antenna in about a year, I've just been getting cbs and fox from NYC,
I never could get Philly stations using a attic antenna in a valley near Basking Ridge.
After reading this thread I decided, to get a preamp and try again. Lowes was out of the Channelmaster preamps, so I got one from radioshack a 15-1109. and moved my RS Attic mounted antenna to point to Philly.
I got CBS 26, ABC 64, PBS 43, 66, and UPN 32.
none of which I could get before.
But UPN's signal is strange, It fluctuates wildly, it will be a strong 60 great picture, then drop down to 28, and I lose everything, a second latter it will be back at 60, If it was happening to all stations I'd say it was a bad wire somewhere, but its just UPN 32. Has anyone else had a simular problem?
Is UPN philly's picture worth the bother, or is it as bad as UPN NYC? I'd kill for Enterprise in HD.

I've still got to get a second antenna and point it at NYC, a rotar wont work in my attic, but at least I'm getting ABC and PBS now.

rphooper....

PBS is New Jersey Network...broadcasting out of Trenton. Its pretty much in the same direction as Philadelphia from Basking Ridge.

Varying signal....I've noticed this is the case when I'm not quite pointed in the proper heading. A slight rotation may help.

UPN's Philly signal is much, much better than WWOR in NYC (I don't know what they do to make their picture look soooooo bad). Don't know if there is and HD material on UPN (just got my antenna set up 2 nights ago).


Good Luck

Was in upstate New York last night and stopped in a nearby Lowe's. Their Antenna section was completely stocked....picked up a CM3041dsb pre-amp just to be able to compare how it works versus the 7775 that I installed on Friday night.

Well...take a look at the signal strength numbers below.....the only difference is that I un-hooked the CM3041DSB and attached the 7775. Net result.....I 'lost' 3 Philly channels, but the 3 that remained had a noticeable boost in signal strength.

Station with 3041 with 7775 Comment
3-1 69% 77% +8%
6-1/2 20% - gone!
17-1 20% - gone!
43-1/2/3/4 79-93% 100%
57-1 36% 69% +33%
66-1/2 20% - gone!

Can anyone offer an opinion about why swapping one pre-amp for the other would make this kind of difference? BTW...the 3041 is a 300ohm input and the 7775 is a 75ohm input (requires balun between antenna and preamp).

The antenna is mounted on a somewhat flexible piece of PVC thats hanging from the rafters in my attic. I will double-check by swapping back the 3041 (just in case I may have moved the antenna's heading).

FWIW, the attic is on a 2-story house and I'm located in Somerset, NJ.

TIA,
SteveK

rphooper-

I had one of the RS amps and two RS Yagis combines with a splitter. One faces Phily the other faces NYC. As earlier in this thread, I upgraded to the CM preamp and it made a huge difference as all the stations are coming in now. I am also in Basking Ridge but on top or a hill and have visibility towards Phily.

Here's what's coming in:

2-1, 3-1, 6-1, 10-1, 12-1, 17-1, 29-1, 39-1-4, 31-1-4, 57-1, 66-1-2...

For the moment I'm in DTV heaven...

Originally posted by SteveK2


Well...take a look at the signal strength numbers below.....the only difference is that I un-hooked the CM3041DSB and attached the 7775. Net result.....I 'lost' 3 Philly channels, but the 3 that remained had a noticeable boost in signal strength.

Station with 3041 with 7775 Comment
3-1 69% 77% +8%
6-1/2 20% - gone!
17-1 20% - gone!
43-1/2/3/4 79-93% 100%
57-1 36% 69% +33%
66-1/2 20% - gone!

TIA,
SteveK

It looks like the 3041 works better. I have that one right now, from Lowe's. I was debating on getting the 7775. It doesn't look like it would be worth it. I thought maybe I could receive Ch. 10.

My numbers:
2 50
3 70
5 40 Unsteady
6 58
12 22
17 40
43 64
57 58
66 54

Originally posted by gjohnsen2002
Hey jaypb - did you get the 7775 yet. Me, my wife and my 3 yr old took a trip to Lowes today - they had no CM equipment on the floor.

No pressure, but you are my last hope to get Fox and ABC......

Gary

Gary,

Installed my 7775 today....I was one of the folks who went out and bought a CM 3041DSB...and returned it. Believe at least one other HD-head did as well. I couldn't get ANY signal at all with the 3041dsb in the line. I think I know why....read on :o

When I hooked the DSB up and had no signal I didn't futz around too much with the hookups...didn't swap out ANY leads (i really wasn't comfortable with the 300ohm twinlead....as a child of the cable TV generation 75ohm was my tool of choice) :) so I just sulked and disconnected everything.

Yet, after hooking up my 7775 I had the EXACT same issues....so I dug deeper. The 7775 has the 75 ohm connections. I hooked up the wiring, had my father in the basement and called the housephone via my cell....told him which channel to go to...and he had nothing. Nada. I immediately issued a flurry of curse words not seen since Bobby Knight chastised his last Indiana team in the locker room in Bloomington :p

Anyhow, I went down into the basement and started switching wires, checking connections and trying to eliminate what the issue could be. What it turned out to be was that the wire coming from the roof/antenna, had an issue with the male/F connection. When I screwed it onto the part of the 7775 unit that plugged into the wall the copper wiring on the rg6 wasn't making a connection inside the power source. So I slipped off the F connection and now have the wire going bare right into the female connection on the input for the power unit of the 7775. After that, I was able to watch TV....but didn't get the results I was *hoping* to get.

I'm *somewhat satisfied* so far. Here's why:

Station: Pre-amp signal Post-amp signal
KYW CBS (26) 100 100 **no change needed*
WPSG UPN (32) 73-79 100 **no change needed*
????? PBS (34) 100 100 ***WTF station is this?
WTXF FOX (42) 09-12 15-24 ** still unwatchable**
WNJT??PBS (43) 100 100 **read below--issues**
WNYW Fox/UPN (44)27-44 44-51 **watchable-kind of*
WPHL WB (54) 12-18 00-06 **unwatchable**
WHYY PBS (55) 00-06 00-06 **still unwatchable**
WPVI ABC (64) 19-37 65-72 **the best yet**
???? UNI ((66) 18-27 27-44 **unwatchable**
WCAU NBC (67) 00-06 00-09 **still a disappointment*

Again, I'm aimed at Philly. I had concerns about the overload being so close to the Channel 58 PBS tower in New Brunswick (I'm about 8 miles away). Entropy brought it up, but I'm not sure WHAT I'm experiencing....IOW's, is what I've "gained" so far normal....or below normal for a person adding a pre-amp?? :confused:

I can watch NYC Fox5 DT channel which, as I've mentioned before ad nauseum is weird because my 4228 is facing Philly....still got my juices flowing though :p The programming on the 5-2 subchannel for UPN9 sucks! Might as well be my directv locals picture quality---stretched and oddified!

My other *issues* so far:

*On my E86, I'm receiving channels 50-1/2 in DT....and man are they overloaded with SOMETHING...maybe this is what Entropy was talking about? I've got audio buzzing and video distorted with what looks like electrical impulses from a hairdryer buzzing through them. Also bleeds right over onto 51 (WTVE???)

*43-1/2/3/4 out of Trenton....can someone tell me if I'm the ONLY human being SOMETIMES getting the video on 43-2 but with the AUDIO from 43-3 on top of it or vice versa---only during daytime hours???? Man, it's WEIRD! But it stops when the HD loop comes on at night. Then, on the HD loop, I'm getting occasional video pixelations/shmears (my terminology) of green. Of course, you guys are the ONLY ones I can bounce this stuff off of....

*Fox WTXF 29---what a disappointment...nada. Nothing. I was HOPING this station would come in....only because it's in the same direction as EVERYTHING else I"m picking up ....and I won't even GO THERE with 10-1 WCAU :mad: Yet, 29 analog is as good as, if not better than some of my NYC locals from DirectV.

*Weird thing----10 WCAU analog...is now gone. Zilch. Nada. I had a watchable signal with some snow BEFORE the amp...now I have NOTHING! Is this a common occurance....I mean...I know 10 is technically BELOW the threshold of what I should be receiving with a UHF antenna...and this IS a UHF only pre-amp....but I figured I'd mention it anyway as a troubleshooting comment.

*WPHL 17....nothing. Not viewable...but the analog for 17 is ok. A ltitle worse analog picture than before the amp.

In a nutshell...that's it. I'm HOPING to hook up the rotor next weekend. Wanted to do it today but time wasn't my friend. Basically, I'm an idiot for not tinkering with the 3041 when I had it here. I'm wondering now if it would've had a different affect on my signal reception....but, I don't know. I'm honestly more comfortable with the 75 ohm connections.

If you read this far....thoughts ???:D

Originally posted by Entropy512
There's a good chance that the advantage is indeed offset by the balun. It depends on the quality of the balun though - I've seen some baluns with .2-.5 dB insertion loss, practical experience states that many baluns found in stores have significantly more.

Note that increased gain can sometimes be a *bad* thing - Increased gain can cause a preamp to become overloaded. If your current amp is working reasonably well and you live near New Brunswick (and the powerful transmitter WNJB has on Ch58), then you should be very careful about increasing your preamp gain.

Regarding the balun, is there a way to know WHICH one's are less prone to a signal loss? The one that came with my 4228 seems sturdy and the two connection wires are thick and not flimsy. They seem to be aluminum more so than a copper connection. Do they make copper connection baluns?

Also---that overload....I haven't seen the "ghosting" you talked about in previous posts since I hooked my 7775 up. I've got what seems to be "hairdryer" type electrical static on a few channels. Would you see a signal drop on channels affected by overload, or is it just a visual issue---Ie that ghosting you talked about. I was concerned that by hooking up the 7775 I'd mess up my KYWDT from Philly 100 signal...but that doesn't seem to be the case. I bumped up my WTVIDT (ABC) signal immensely. I was hoping to get WCAU (NBC) in, but that signal barely blipped up after hooking up the pre-amp. I'm wondering if I should move the antenna aroudn the roof---when I went higher it didn't do me any good, so I was wondering if I moved it to a different spot on the horizon maybe I'd pick something up.

Originally posted by SteveK2
rphooper....

PBS is New Jersey Network...broadcasting out of Trenton. Its pretty much in the same direction as Philadelphia from Basking Ridge.

Varying signal....I've noticed this is the case when I'm not quite pointed in the proper heading. A slight rotation may help.

UPN's Philly signal is much, much better than WWOR in NYC (I don't know what they do to make their picture look soooooo bad). Don't know if there is and HD material on UPN (just got my antenna set up 2 nights ago).


Good Luck

The UPN signal out of NYC is stretched and horrific to look at! The 57-1 signal out of UPN Philly at least, is in 4:3 and looks crisp and clear. Does UPN Philly have plans to offer any Phillies coverage in anything but 4:3?

Originally posted by SteveK2
Was in upstate New York last night and stopped in a nearby Lowe's. Their Antenna section was completely stocked....picked up a CM3041dsb pre-amp just to be able to compare how it works versus the 7775 that I installed on Friday night.

Well...take a look at the signal strength numbers below.....the only difference is that I un-hooked the CM3041DSB and attached the 7775. Net result.....I 'lost' 3 Philly channels, but the 3 that remained had a noticeable boost in signal strength.

Station with 3041 with 7775 Comment
3-1 69% 77% +8%
6-1/2 20% - gone!
17-1 20% - gone!
43-1/2/3/4 79-93% 100%
57-1 36% 69% +33%
66-1/2 20% - gone!

Can anyone offer an opinion about why swapping one pre-amp for the other would make this kind of difference? BTW...the 3041 is a 300ohm input and the 7775 is a 75ohm input (requires balun between antenna and preamp).

The antenna is mounted on a somewhat flexible piece of PVC thats hanging from the rafters in my attic. I will double-check by swapping back the 3041 (just in case I may have moved the antenna's heading).

FWIW, the attic is on a 2-story house and I'm located in Somerset, NJ.

TIA,
SteveK

I was starting to think that you and I were having similar viewing issues with regards to certain channels, but after I hooked up my 7775, I didn't lose ABC Philly---actually made it pristine! My daughter was LOVING watching "The Emperor's New Groove" tonight in pure 720! It was great. I've also had a pretty much 100% signal on the UPN and PBS 43-1/2/3/4 since I hooked the 4228 up. I wish I had a 2 story home....my ranch house doesn't get the antenna up *quite* as high as I was hoping!

You probably would do yourself some great viewing pleasure if you were able to get that 4228 up on the roof. But, you probably already know that :D

You probably would do yourself some great viewing pleasure if you were able to get that 4228 up on the roof. But, you probably already know that

I might get another 6-8' in elevation if I mount the antenna on the chimney stack (yea...that'll look real nice...like having a barbeque grill hanging on your house).:D

Right now, the antenna is on the 'far' side of the house....I wonder if moving it to the 'near' side house so that its right inside the outside wall would improve things? There's a couple of AC power lines and a burglar alarm/fire alarm wire nailed to rafters in front of the antenna. Might be just enough to kill some incoming signal.

I'm really pretty surprised that I'm not getting some of the Philly stations that some other folks are getting. Maybe it'll just take some tinkering and getting the beast pointed in exactly the right direction. Using a compass for directional setting now.

That cartoon movie on ABC was pretty good tonight (was watching it while doing some antenna tests).:cool:

I was getting a bit fed up with all these antenna pointing web sites that each seemed to want to limit my stations to a range shy of what I was really receiving, or forced me to enter a fake location to find other stations, thus losing the value of the directional information. So I created my own that permits much more flexibility.

Feel free to give it a try. It provides a useful list of transmitter locations, and the distance and bearing from your location. Links are provided to sites you can use to get your latitude and longitude and magnetic declination.

The database I'm using was compiled on February 25, 2003 and includes digital and analog stations. I'm presenting the list in order by distance for each of the two types of stations, but probably will make it more flexible in the future with some sorting options. And if I can figure out a way to easily correlate actual broadcast channels to their virtual ID's I'll get that in there too.

It contains everything in the US, Canada and Mexico... well I'm not 100% sure it's everything in Canada and Mexico, but there were quite a lot.

I'm limiting it to a 400 mile range just to cut down on the database queries a bit, but if someone needs to run with a bigger range, just contact me.

Anyway, it's a start. :)

http://www.2150.com/broadcast/

Originally posted by jaypb
wish I had a 2 story home....my ranch house doesn't get the antenna up *quite* as high as I was hoping!

You probably would do yourself some great viewing pleasure if you were able to get that 4228 up on the roof. But, you probably already know that :D

I had no idea you were in a ranch house. That explains your reception issues.

The most important things in determining reception -
1). Height
2). Pre-amp quality
3). Antenna Size

I am 50 miles from Philly with the CM 4228/3041 in my attic/crawl space. I have to put my antenna 4 feet from the walls because of the lack of height available. That hurts the signal. But the fact I am high up mitigates all this!

doug--
Very nice lookup mechanism!! So, the "direction" indicated in the results includes an adjustment for magnetic declination and indicates the exact direction to point an antenna using a compass, correct?

Very useful for finding the actual, correct direction to point the antenna instead of the generalized data on other sites.

I've noticed that the 7775 pre-amp is not giving me as many stations as the 3041 pre-amp, even though the 7775 has slightly higher gain (I think). One possibility that was suggested is that NJN's New Brunswick transmitter may wreak havoc due to its strong signal and relatively close location (only several miles away). But I think an even bigger potential problem is that I'm located less than 1 miles from WMGQ's (FM98.3) transmitter. Their signal overloads lots of cheap FM radios in the area....they bleed over into just about every other FM station on cheap radios. So, the 3041 includes an FM trap and it may be trapping the FM signals that are overloading the 7775. I'll have to check the FM trap setting....I didn't change it from the factory default.

Also, the antenna is presently located in my attic, but quite a distance (20'+) from the outside (southwest) wall. I've been told that signal strength deteriorates rapidly as you move away from the outside walls. So, I'll re-install the antenna just inside the southwest wall and hope that I see improved signal strength.

Again, great job of the database/station lookup!

Originally posted by jaypb
Regarding the balun, is there a way to know WHICH one's are less prone to a signal loss? The one that came with my 4228 seems sturdy and the two connection wires are thick and not flimsy. They seem to be aluminum more so than a copper connection. Do they make copper connection baluns?

Also---that overload....I haven't seen the "ghosting" you talked about in previous posts since I hooked my 7775 up. I've got what seems to be "hairdryer" type electrical static on a few channels. Would you see a signal drop on channels affected by overload, or is it just a visual issue---Ie that ghosting you talked about. I was concerned that by hooking up the 7775 I'd mess up my KYWDT from Philly 100 signal...but that doesn't seem to be the case. I bumped up my WTVIDT (ABC) signal immensely. I was hoping to get WCAU (NBC) in, but that signal barely blipped up after hooking up the pre-amp. I'm wondering if I should move the antenna aroudn the roof---when I went higher it didn't do me any good, so I was wondering if I moved it to a different spot on the horizon maybe I'd pick something up.
"hairdryer" type static...

Sounds like local interference could somehow be getting into the preamp.

First: Fix up your connections. You mentioned having some sort of hack to get around a problem with one of your F connectors. Replace the connector, or get a new cable. (It sounded like it was the cable connector that was the problem???) Loose connections on coax can do all sorts of wonderful things to your reception. Especially if it's a loose ground connection... Proper grounding is critical for RF applications.

Second: Go to http://www.allelectronics.com/ and do a search for "ferrite" - Ferrite is your friend. Snapping ferrites onto your preamp's power supply cord, and possibly onto the outer jacket of your coax in some places, plus the power cords of any PCs that might be running, can help a lot.

(Note: Static-wise, try turning things on/off in your house to see what they do. I know my old laptop's power supply (Not the laptop itself, just the PS) kills TV reception on all VHF channels even after snapping ferrites on both the input and output, although ferrite helped quite a bit it wasn't enough in that case. Copious use of ferrite was needed to prevent our DVD player from creating snow on our (ancient) TV downstairs.

As to UPN on WNYW's subchannel - If it's stretched, it's a problem with your STB or TV's settings. Displays fine in 4:3 for me. It's still ugly (crappy encoder, broadcasting in 480i), but I have no stretching problems. (MyHD PCI tuner card attached to a Dell 1800FP 18" LCD display.)

Originally posted by dswallow
I was getting a bit fed up with all these antenna pointing web sites that each seemed to want to limit my stations to a range shy of what I was really receiving, or forced me to enter a fake location to find other stations, thus losing the value of the directional information. So I created my own that permits much more flexibility.

Feel free to give it a try. It provides a useful list of transmitter locations, and the distance and bearing from your location. Links are provided to sites you can use to get your latitude and longitude and magnetic declination.

The database I'm using was compiled on February 25, 2003 and includes digital and analog stations. I'm presenting the list in order by distance for each of the two types of stations, but probably will make it more flexible in the future with some sorting options. And if I can figure out a way to easily correlate actual broadcast channels to their virtual ID's I'll get that in there too.

It contains everything in the US, Canada and Mexico... well I'm not 100% sure it's everything in Canada and Mexico, but there were quite a lot.

I'm limiting it to a 400 mile range just to cut down on the database queries a bit, but if someone needs to run with a bigger range, just contact me.

Anyway, it's a start. :)

http://www.2150.com/broadcast/

Can't wait to go home and compare this to the listings I have on my E86....some of which don't tell me what the channel is....some just say "Local Brodcast".

Should be interesting....even moreso when I get my rotor hooked up and can spin around and see what I can pick up.

Originally posted by Entropy512
"hairdryer" type static...

Sounds like local interference could somehow be getting into the preamp.

First: Fix up your connections. You mentioned having some sort of hack to get around a problem with one of your F connectors. Replace the connector, or get a new cable. (It sounded like it was the cable connector that was the problem???) Loose connections on coax can do all sorts of wonderful things to your reception. Especially if it's a loose ground connection... Proper grounding is critical for RF applications.

Yes, I plan on "re-tooling" the Connector on the end of the coax. Odd thing is I didnt' have a problem when it was hooked directly into my E86. Maybe the coaxial copper wire itself doesn't have to reach as "far in" on the back of my STB as it does on the power supply for the CM's?? this power supply looks almost identical to the one on the 3041DSB.


Second: Go to http://www.allelectronics.com/ and do a search for "ferrite" - Ferrite is your friend. Snapping ferrites onto your preamp's power supply cord, and possibly onto the outer jacket of your coax in some places, plus the power cords of any PCs that might be running, can help a lot.

(Note: Static-wise, try turning things on/off in your house to see what they do. I know my old laptop's power supply (Not the laptop itself, just the PS) kills TV reception on all VHF channels even after snapping ferrites on both the input and output, although ferrite helped quite a bit it wasn't enough in that case. Copious use of ferrite was needed to prevent our DVD player from creating snow on our (ancient) TV downstairs.

I believe i know of what you speak with regards to this "ferrite"...I believe it's a little metal clamp type contraption that has a magnetic type material inside of it?? I believe I've seen this on my portable CD Burner here at work as well as Printer power cables. I shall pick up some. Do you think the "interference" I'm seeing could be as a result of where I have the power supply for the 7775 placed?? I.e. near other electrical wires behind my TV set??


As to UPN on WNYW's subchannel - If it's stretched, it's a problem with your STB or TV's settings. Displays fine in 4:3 for me. It's still ugly (crappy encoder, broadcasting in 480i), but I have no stretching problems. (MyHD PCI tuner card attached to a Dell 1800FP 18" LCD display.)

See the weird thing is....EVERY other channel I receive stays in 4:3 mode via my OTA antenna unless it's a HD broadcast (other than 6-2/64-2 and it's stretch mode) I'd venture if it's anything it's a STB issue moreso than my TV based on the fact that it's the only station I have an issue with. I'm apt to fool around more when I get the rotor hooked up. I'm almost inclined to do a "walk around" on the roof holding my mast/antenna and have the wife tell me if ANYTHING comes in on 10-1 WCAU....I'm dying over the fact I can't pick up an NBC hi-def channel.:mad:

I'll survive. I just want to see if WPVI stays tuned in at a decent strength/picture.

I meant to tell you---it's difficult to see if Channel 58 out of New Brunswick is bleeding through onto other channels (Ghosting??) because most of the PBS channels that I had problems with last night (50-1/2) seem to have the SAME programming on....hence I can't get a good read on what seems to be "waving" through the picture. I'll get this damn thing right eventually.... :p

Originally posted by SteveK2
doug--
Very nice lookup mechanism!! So, the "direction" indicated in the results includes an adjustment for magnetic declination and indicates the exact direction to point an antenna using a compass, correct?

Very useful for finding the actual, correct direction to point the antenna instead of the generalized data on other sites.

[...]

Again, great job of the database/station lookup!

That was the intention. The bearings reported for each station will be adjusted by the magnetic declination so you can use a compass reading for the given bearing to aim the antenna.

Just a note that a fix was made to correct a typo in my conversion of lat/long into a decimal number; the 'seconds' part was having a little more influence than it should have because of a dropped '0' at the end of what should have been '3600'.

WPVI is at UHF channel 64, hence the reason it's signal doesn't propigate as well as the lower ones. That's the same reason that KYW at channel 26 is easy to receive.

I live about 20 miles southwest of the WTC site. In Piscataway. I've had this setup operating since 12/2001

I am using a Samsung SIRT-150
I have a Channelmaster 4248 (UHF) mounted 20' above the peak of a 2 story house. It has a rotator. There's also a UHF only pre-amp up there.
Here's some stats from my location
Phila.
26 (3-1) - KYW (CBS) - Excellent!
29 (66-1) - WFMEDT (REL) - Excellent!
32 (57-1) - WPSGDT (UPN) - Excellent!
64 (6-1) - WPVI (ABC) - Excellent!
54 (17-1) WPHLDT (WB) - Excellent!
55 (12-1) - WHYY (PBS) - Pretty good. Drops out sometimes.
WCAU (NBC) - Not much more than a glimmer on the meter. No lock.
42 (29-1) - WTXF (FOX) - Excellent!
WLVT (PBS) - Allentown - due West. Solid signal.

Trenton
43 WNJT-DT (PBS) - TRENTON


New York
56 (2-1) - WCBS - Excellent
44 (5-1,2) - FOX/UPN - Excellent

Good Luck,

Steve

Do other folks see this happening:
I was tweaking my antenna alignment last night and positioned it for the highest signal reading on 57-1 UPN out of Philly. When I re-scan, I picked up the most digital channels (7) out of Philly/Trenton/Southern NJ than I have since I installed my antenna 4 days ago.
Wow, I thought, this is great. Every 5 minutes or so I would check signal strength readings and it seemed that the readings were getting stronger and stronger. Example, channel 6-1 (ABC) was reading 69%. I walked away to do some chore and returned about 20 minutes later. Now, 6-1's reading was 20% and barely watchable. Some of the other stations, 29-1 for example, which I'd never received before was now down @0%. Just 30 minutes earlier the reading was at 36%.
Is this attributable to atmospheric conditions? There was no activity whatsoever in the attic where my antenna is situated. All other settings, etc remained the same.

Any ideas?

TIA,
SteveK

I see that sort of fluctuation quite a lot on the very distant stations. I think it's atmospheric, and have also noted some suggestions elsewhere concerning tilt of the antenna being important on such distant stations, even as little as 1/2 a degree of it.

Originally posted by SteveK2

Is this attributable to atmospheric conditions? There was no activity whatsoever in the attic where my antenna is situated. All other settings, etc remained the same.


Yes, it was definitely atmospheric conditions. I received 29-1 at 45 - I never receive it. 17-1 was 58 and 6-1 was 64.

Try to adjust the antenna is more steady state conditions.

Originally posted by SteveK2
Do other folks see this happening:
I was tweaking my antenna alignment last night and positioned it for the highest signal reading on 57-1 UPN out of Philly. When I re-scan, I picked up the most digital channels (7) out of Philly/Trenton/Southern NJ than I have since I installed my antenna 4 days ago.
Wow, I thought, this is great. Every 5 minutes or so I would check signal strength readings and it seemed that the readings were getting stronger and stronger. Example, channel 6-1 (ABC) was reading 69%. I walked away to do some chore and returned about 20 minutes later. Now, 6-1's reading was 20% and barely watchable. Some of the other stations, 29-1 for example, which I'd never received before was now down @0%. Just 30 minutes earlier the reading was at 36%.
Is this attributable to atmospheric conditions? There was no activity whatsoever in the attic where my antenna is situated. All other settings, etc remained the same.

Any ideas?

TIA,
SteveK

Steve,

I've had this happen to me numerous times. If you scan back through this thread you'll see that when i first hooked up my antenna I didn't get anything more than KYW and UPN and PBS out of Trenton. Then, two days later, it was like an epiphany....almost EVERYTHING but WCAU came in! The next day most of it was gone! Though YMMV, I've noticed with my set up, in MY location, when it was super cold out and very clear, I received better signals from Philly with a constant lock. I haven't turned my antenna towards NYC yet (i'll do that when I get the rotor up), but I assume it'll be the same. With my CM7775 up now, I've been able to keep a steady lock (at least when I've been in front of the TV set) on ABC out of Philly and ironically Fox out of NYC has been pretty steady. but still no NBC (WCAU) out of Philly---but from reading over the last few weeks, it's not too uncommon for us Central NJ folks to get nada from that signal.

I"m just hopeful that as the weather warms up that I'll continue to get ABC out of Philly.

Originally posted by dswallow
I see that sort of fluctuation quite a lot on the very distant stations. I think it's atmospheric, and have also noted some suggestions elsewhere concerning tilt of the antenna being important on such distant stations, even as little as 1/2 a degree of it.

I believe there was someone on the board who's done testing that seems to support that. For me though, it seems that my BEST signals on the problematic stations come in at night...which means I'd have to be up there at night to "find" a good tilt for that problematic station. I'll have to wait for brighter nights and warmer temps :mad:

BTW---anyone familiar with how to install guy wiring on a mast? I want to go "up" another 5 foot length of masting, but when I spoke to the RS sales man he didn't seem to "know" how to rig guy wires on a mast. I've tried to check out antenna's on people houses but the only ones I see on guy wires on those on tripods. Mine is on the side of my home near the peak attached to the wall with mast mounts to the side of the house. Right now I have about 6 of the 10 total feet extending ABOVE the roof line. I'd like to add another 5 foot section of masting to the 5 footer that's attached to the house...AND THEN put the rotor on top of that 5 foot section. But I'm not sure that's advisable with a rotor....or with my mast mounting set up.

Thoughts?

jaypb, that's funny because Radio Shack sells a guy wire ring for antenna masts.

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F002%5F004%5F011%5F000&product%5Fid=15%2D835

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F002%5F004%5F011%5F000&product%5Fid=15%2D827

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F002%5F004%5F011%5F000&product%5Fid=15%2D850

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F002%5F004%5F011%5F000&product%5Fid=15%2D825

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F002%5F004%5F011%5F000&product%5Fid=15%2D829

Originally posted by pabuwal
Yes, it was definitely atmospheric conditions. I received 29-1 at 45 - I never receive it. 17-1 was 58 and 6-1 was 64.

Try to adjust the antenna is more steady state conditions.

Oddly, I couldn't even get a lock on 17-1 (WPHL) my signal strength showed it down to like a 6! And this is a station that I get OCCASSIONALLY....here and there. Luckily, their programming isn't too hot or I'd worry about it ;)

Anyone try to get a lock on WPIXDT last night? Seems from reading one of the other threads it was on past 3 pm yesterday.

Originally posted by dswallow
jaypb, that's funny because Radio Shack sells a guy wire ring for antenna masts.

Doug,

I think his exact words were "We only have the guy wire itself but no hardware" or something to that effect. Then he said he wasn't even sure how to install it. I've had pretty good luck at the RS I've been frequenting (East Brunswick mall) but a few times they haven't had what I saw online. Connectors and coax waterproof boots and things like that.

One of my 4 local Radio Shack's has stuff not even in the catalog. Your mileage will vary, but try several. Some are independently owned and tend to be a bit more hobbiest oriented than the company ones, which are becoming more like Circuit City.

But I did see all that stuff at the one closest to me; I was buying attic mounts for the masts, and while they didn't have the one in the catalog, they had a more compact one (not in the catalog, but was in Radio Shack packaging) which worked just as well. They were right next to the guy wire rings, which is why I remember this. :)

Based upon the thread on the 7775 vs. 3041, I have ordered the 3041 on-line from Lowes (since I could always return it to the local store if it is a NG)

I will let you know how it worked out

Gary

I also came across a wealth of antenna information that I've mentioned recently in a couple other places, so may as well point out here. :)

Here's an excellent review and comparison of quite a few of the antennas we always talk about here:

http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/kq6qv/ANTENNAS/comparing.html

http://www.tvantenna.com/support/faq.html

This one has opened my eyes to quite a few things such as antenna placement, angle and such.

I've taken to actually printing ou tmost stuff I run across and keeping it in a folder by my remotes :D

Who knew this whole "thing" would be so darn involved......;)

Anyone else notice a low signal strength on KYW this AM?? I just happened to pop the TV on this AM before I left for work (6:15) and noticed my signal strength on my E86 was at 50-60 on KYW (26). That is honestly THE first time I've been below 100 since I hooked up my setup. Also, WPVI was up at about 92 on my meter---the highest I've EVE seen that one. And, WB 17 (WPHL) was at a steady ZERO.

Odd.

I also haven't sat down to see what analogs I'm able to view and compare to the list that Doug's database spit out for my lat/long.

I'm hoping when I get the rotor up and I'm able to "tool around" the horizon I'll find some cool stuff.
:D

In case anyone is interested, there are a few CM 3041DSB pre-amps up for sale on Ebay. I just bought one, figuring I'd re-test another one out to see if the problems I had with the last installation were from my installtion of the RG6 from the roof into the power source....which I am now assuming they were.

What an idiot :mad:

there are a few CM 3041DSB pre-amps up for sale on Ebay

...and at about $30 cheaper than what Lowe's sells them for!!


to see if the problems I had with the last installation were from my installtion of the RG6 from the roof into the power source

OMG! What did you do?

Originally posted by SteveK2
...and at about $30 cheaper than what Lowe's sells them for!!

OMG! What did you do?

I forgot to mention the cost on Ebay. I picked my 3041DSB up for 27 bucks with shipping....a FAR cry from the $60.00 or so I paid at Lowes in Old Bridge.

AFA what I did wrong when I hooked it up....nothing really. But after not getting ANY video when I hooked up the 3041DSB I didn't troubleshoot it....but when I hooked up the CM7775 I had the EXACT same issues...and pretty much traced it back to a bad F connector on the RG 6 cable coming from the roof. Once I took the connector off....and "stuck" the bare copper wire right into the 7775's input on the power source---BOOM...picture :rolleyes:

Like I said....idiot :D

Either way the pre-amp has allowed me to enjoy the beauty of ABC (WPVI) high def that I didn't have before the pre-amp.....but that's pretty much IT!

WCAU is still dead as a doornail...and the "WB" WPHL doesn't peter up enough to hold a picture---same goes for WTXF Fox out of Philly. I still can't get ANY signal on WHYY out of Philly/Delaware.

I'll get it figured out one of these days.

If the wife doesn't kill me for annoying her first.....:p

Originally posted by jaypb
I forgot to mention the cost on Ebay. I picked my 3041DSB up for 27 bucks with shipping....a FAR cry from the $60.00 or so I paid at Lowes in Old Bridge.

AFA what I did wrong when I hooked it up....nothing really. But after not getting ANY video when I hooked up the 3041DSB I didn't troubleshoot it....but when I hooked up the CM7775 I had the EXACT same issues...and pretty much traced it back to a bad F connector on the RG 6 cable coming from the roof. Once I took the connector off....and "stuck" the bare copper wire right into the 7775's input on the power source---BOOM...picture :rolleyes:

Like I said....idiot :D

Either way the pre-amp has allowed me to enjoy the beauty of ABC (WPVI) high def that I didn't have before the pre-amp.....but that's pretty much IT!

WCAU is still dead as a doornail...and the "WB" WPHL doesn't peter up enough to hold a picture---same goes for WTXF Fox out of Philly. I still can't get ANY signal on WHYY out of Philly/Delaware.

I'll get it figured out one of these days.

If the wife doesn't kill me for annoying her first.....:p

Have you retooled that connector yet?

If not, have you made sure there is a good connection between the braid (ground) and the power unit?

If you have bad grounding, that would explain your "hair dryer" like noise when using the preamp. If the grounding is bad it's a miracle it works at all. (Since that DC power needs some sort of ground return...)

Originally posted by Entropy512
Have you retooled that connector yet?

If not, have you made sure there is a good connection between the braid (ground) and the power unit?

If you have bad grounding, that would explain your "hair dryer" like noise when using the preamp. If the grounding is bad it's a miracle it works at all. (Since that DC power needs some sort of ground return...)

Negative on the re-tool. Haven't been down in the lair for an extended period of time to screw around with it.

AFA the "hair dryer" like noise I'm seeing I'm not sure how exactly to describe it or what exactly it is. It's been awhile (years) since I've utilized an antenna for ANY type of reception. I know we've discussed the proximity of Channel 58 PBS out of New Brunswick being a *potenial* issue with regards to overamplification....but I'm not sure WTF is going on :confused:

By that I mean....it seems that 58 broadcasts the same shows at the same times as PBS 50 and PBS 52...so it's hard to tell if 58 is "showing up" on those other stations. What I AM seeing is sometype of electrical interference on 50-1 and 50-2....again, kind of like when a hair dryer or blender is powered up. It also bleeds right through onto 53 and 54 analog that my Hughes E86 is showing as some other channel. It could be electrical in nature from within my house, but it's not interefering with (as far as I can tell) ANY other channel reception.

Another oddity that I noticed was after I hooked up the CM7775 I lost Analog 10 (WCAU) from Philly. There's just nothing there. My e86 only has a signal meter for digital signals, not analog, so I'm not sure what happened.

I also have pretty much LOST WB 17-1 (WPHL) and WTXF 29-1 (FOX) comes and goes. Analog 29 is still there and looks better than 1/2 way decent, but 57 Analog has that same type of blender/hair dryer effect. Seems that it's affecting my reception up in the 50's....and 58 PBS out of New Brunswick is _RIGHT UP_ in that channel area.

But ABC 6-1 (WPVI) is ROCK SOLID! A tradeoff I'll take with regards to more programming options here than on anything I've lost.

Interestingly I'm able to ALMOST pick up Analog 28 out of Allentown??? Think it's an NBC affiliate. I'm hopeful when I get the rotor hooked up I'll be able to see some other Digital signals out there.

Thanks for all the info BTW with regards to antennas and pre-amps/amps. I've read your other posts on quite a few other threads on this forum. ;)

Another oddity that I noticed was after I hooked up the CM7775 I lost Analog 10 (WCAU) from Philly. There's just nothing there. My e86 only has a signal meter for digital signals, not analog, so I'm not sure what happened.

the 7775 is UHF only and supposedly does not pass any VHF.


I'm still trying to decide on whether to use the 7775 or 3041dsb for exactly the reasons/tradeoffs that you mention.

The Channel Master 7777 has the same specs on the UHF side, but also has a VHF side.

Originally posted by SteveK2
the 7775 is UHF only and supposedly does not pass any VHF.


I'm still trying to decide on whether to use the 7775 or 3041dsb for exactly the reasons/tradeoffs that you mention.

One of the reasons that I liked going with the 7775 (other than the 75ohm input/outputs) was the fact that it was UHF only. By hooking up a UHF only pre-amp does it nullify ANY and ALL VHF signals? As I said, I had a watchable picture on 10 before hooking up the pre-amp...odd because the CM 4228 is a UHF antenna...but I was told that 10 is "close enough" the the UHF range that it's not uncommon for the signal to be picked up by the 4228.

The PBS transmitter that is supposed to go live on 4/1 in New Brunswick (8 miles from me) has designated Channel 8 as its Digital channel. Does that mean it would be less of a candidate to overmodulate the rest of my channels when it does go live since my amp is a UHF only and my antenna is (supposed to be) a UHF antenna only? Or does my proximity and the amps DB gain nullify that thought?

Just trying to figure out the "way this stuff" works.....:D

Just trying to figure out the "way this stuff" works.....

Yep, me too. That's why I said the 7775 'supposedly' doesn't pass UHF. But I would think that a pre-amp's circuitry is better able to filter out VHF than the 4228 is able to reject VHF. The antenna is 'tuned' to result in better gain for specific frequencies, but I don't see how an antenna can exclude frequencies.

What's worrying me more than the NJN tower in New Brunswick is the WMGQ-FM transmitter that is less than 1 mile from where I live. Its signal bleeds onto every FM radio station on cheap radios.

I'll probably try out the 3041 again...just to be able to do better A/B testing for my situation.

You could always get a tunable notch filter and reduce the signal that's bleeding all over everything before the preamp.

http://www.starkelectronic.com/btc15-1.htm

Originally posted by jaypb
One of the reasons that I liked going with the 7775 (other than the 75ohm input/outputs) was the fact that it was UHF only. By hooking up a UHF only pre-amp does it nullify ANY and ALL VHF signals? As I said, I had a watchable picture on 10 before hooking up the pre-amp...odd because the CM 4228 is a UHF antenna...but I was told that 10 is "close enough" the the UHF range that it's not uncommon for the signal to be picked up by the 4228.

The PBS transmitter that is supposed to go live on 4/1 in New Brunswick (8 miles from me) has designated Channel 8 as its Digital channel. Does that mean it would be less of a candidate to overmodulate the rest of my channels when it does go live since my amp is a UHF only and my antenna is (supposed to be) a UHF antenna only? Or does my proximity and the amps DB gain nullify that thought?

Just trying to figure out the "way this stuff" works.....:D

Don't think the digital PBS will be broadcasting as much power.

Also, a UHF-only amp will attenuate the VHF signals quite a bit. Unlike the antenna, which is simply "non-optimal" at VHF, the UHF-only preamps probably retain the filtering of the V/U preamps, which have significant loss at VHF. Essentially, a good UHF-only preamp will act as a VHF rejection filter.

Note that almost all of CM's amps that are V/U combos use *seperate* amplifier circuits for VHF and UHF. So there's no penalty for getting a combo amp other than cost.

and I've just started fooling around with it! Got it up late yesterday but of course, as life dictates, wasn't able to putz around with it (damn family committments)....and this AM, of course, as is life, I've got MORE family committments...this time in Long Island!!! Damn!!! Did a quick search of the sky and turned towards NYC and received 5-1/2 steady....didn't have time to check anything else (damn kids)!

Was pretty easy to install...but I *might* want to set up some guy wires. Hell, I'm even thinking of putting a 2nd antenna in a different spot on the roof to see if I can get Philly NBC! Wife thinks I'm crazy.....but so what, right? :D

I'll let you guys know what else I can receive...hopefully tonight after I get home.

BTW---it's the CM 9521a...the one with the remote. Cool set up. Easy to install. Haven't received the 3041dsb I bought on e=bay yet....guess it's just ANOTHER excuse to go on the roof AGAIN next weekend ;)

Anyone else notice a "bump" up in signal strength from WCAU (10-1) this AM?? I checked last night...and my E86 showed the normal 00-03 signal strength....this AM it was from 18-27. Found it odd...that and the fact that 29-1 was coming in this AM as well. I didn't leave the TV on long enough to see if I received ANY picture (with the 18-27 signal strength I didn't get a visual picture although that's not uncommon for my STB--I seem to need a 37 and above to get ANY visuals).

I've also noticed that I have a 67-1 in my onscreen guide as well. Is this a PSIP issue similar to WPVI's 6-1/64-1 listing on some STB's??

On Dec 11,2002 I had my system installed. At the time I was told Only 1 HD OTA Channel (out of Philly). So the installed never installed an antenna. After reading a ton of crap all over the net Im doubting the installer's opinions. Im in Jackson NJ 21 miles from Philly and 71 Miles from NYC (as a crow flies).

As I read it i should be able to receive almost 11 HD OTA channels (www.titantv.com and others)

Can Anyone reccomend an installer who can test my area or reccommend what equipment i should buy and install to get more than the 3 channels DTV provides. Im dying over here...

Did a scan and readjustment of my antenns and I started picking up channel 67-1 and 67-2 out of New York (I think) it was Telefutura and Univision.

Originally posted by wward

Did a scan and readjustment of my antenns and I started picking up channel 67-1 and 67-2 out of New York (I think) it was Telefutura and Univision.

Wward,

Which STB are you using? In recent days I've noticed quite a few of the Spanish DT's popping up...with subchannels as well. I believe it was 65-1/2 and 66-1/2 that was showing Spanish programming. Lately it has faded in and out but I remember seeing war coverage and boxing and some soap's in Spanish on there.

Lately I've noticed a 67-1 on my Hughes E86 but no picture---I assumed it was the re-mapping for 10-1 (digital channel 67) for WCAU out of PHilly.

I've also noticed (since we're on the topic of subchannels) that Philly 6 (wpvi)---their subchannel 6-2/64-2 hasn't had ANY audio for me for two days now.

Odd.

Have you had any luck picking up the WPIX signal down in Freehold? I haven't tried---as the thread I've been reading comments that WPIX's engineer's are trying to figure out why Hughes E86's are having problems mapping the signal into the guides.

Originally posted by webboy10169
On Dec 11,2002 I had my system installed. At the time I was told Only 1 HD OTA Channel. So the installed never installed an antenna. After reading a ton of crap all over the net Im doubting the installer's opinions. Im in Jackson NJ 21 miles from Philly and 71 Miles from NYC (as a crow flies).

As I read it i should be able to receive almost 11 HD OTA channels (www.titantv.com and others)

Can Anyone reccomend an installer who can test my area or reccommend what equipment i should buy and install to get more than the 3 channels DTV provides. Im dying over here...

Not sure about installers for your area, but if you want to give it a go yourself it's not too hard---and you'll probably save yourself a BOAT load of money!

Give the Zenith Silver Sensor antenna a shot. It's a set top antenna and should give you a starting point to move from. CircuitCity carries it. Think it's around $40 bucks.

Where you are getting almost ALL of the Philly stations should be pretty easy---NYC may be more of an issue without a rooftop antenna. Read back through this thread---there's a TREASURE trove of antenna/amp mentions as well as area specific reception comments.

webboy, where would any antenna go that you installed? Outside on a mast off your roof or in the attic?

If you can do it yourself, start with a Channel Master 4228 UHF antenna and a rotator such as the Channel Master 9521A. You can order online from www.warrenelectronics.com (they're listed as an onlinedealer at Channel Master's site). I've not found anyone around the area selling this stuff in a retail store.

Picking up the NYC stations will be a hit or miss thing, as you are quite far from them, however you should be able to get almost all the Philadelphia stations.

jaypb


I have an integrated receiver (RCA F38310) I have not had any luck picking up WPIX-DT most likely because of WHYY 12 out of Phily being the stronger signal of the two.

webboy, another option... if you don't mind spending a little money (like about $650 plus another monthly fee of at least $15) you could subscribe to Bell ExpressVu and get HD locals from Boston & Seattle (ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, PBS from each + a Canadian HDTV station CITY-TV).

Originally posted by webboy10169
On Dec 11,2002 I had my system installed. At the time I was told Only 1 HD OTA Channel (out of Philly). So the installed never installed an antenna. After reading a ton of crap all over the net Im doubting the installer's opinions. Im in Jackson NJ 21 miles from Philly and 71 Miles from NYC (as a crow flies).

As I read it i should be able to receive almost 11 HD OTA channels (www.titantv.com and others)

Can Anyone reccomend an installer who can test my area or reccommend what equipment i should buy and install to get more than the 3 channels DTV provides. Im dying over here...
As jaypb mentioned, a Zenith Silver Sensor might be more than sufficient for you (except possibly for receiving WCAU - NBC).

It's $40 from Sears and apparently Circuit City too, $25 from buy.com. Sears has a good return policy, so you can buy it and try it, worth the $15 extra not to have to deal with shipping it back if it's insufficient.

Next step up is the Radio Shack 150-2160. $22 if you can find it (Many stores don't seem to carry it.) BTW, has anyone found any Rat Shacks in Central NJ that have the 2160? The Bridgewater Commons has *no* antennas at all, and the Middlesex store doesn't have the 2160. It's a bit big but you can probably still use the 2160 inside. It'll almost surely work well if attic-mounted, possibly even without a preamp.

If worst comes to worst, the Channel Master 4228 plus a 3041DSB preamp (from Lowes) or a 7775 (From www.warrenelectronics.com, same place to go for the 4228) will be guaranteed to be more than enough for Philly reception and might be able to receive NYC stations if reaimed depending on the weather.

Entropy,

Have you tried the RatShack on Main St Somerville (in the Pathmark shopping Center)

Gary

I ran through the setup of the program guide for OTA channels for the NYC & Philadelphia areas in the setup of my Zenith HD-SAT520 tonight (never made it to that menu before). And I noticed it added all the channels from those markets, even the NYC ones not broadcasting at the moment.

So I was just tuning through things creating a surf list and found I had a signal on 9-1. Not only that, it was one of the better signals... somewhere around 80-85%. The antenna was aimed at 274 degrees, towards Philadelphia. But the program was WJZ-DT out of Baltimore. 157 miles from me.

It turns out that WJZ-DT is on UHF 38 just like WWOR-DT would be on UHF 38 in NY.

Here's a photo (no tripod, so it's a little fuzzy):

http://www.2150.com/broadcast/images/wjz-dt_baltimore_200303280258a_500x314.jpg

I've been watching about 30 minutes; the signal's very slowly dropping a bit and I'm getting occasional breakups. This feels neat. I may have to get one of those antenna tilt mechanisms now. :D

Nice!

Guess living down near the water DOES have it's advantages :D

Can you pick up Europe with that thing??? :p

My signal meter shows WCAU coming in at a whopping 44-51 on the bar line....yet I STILL can't get ANYTHING on the screen. Not sure WHAT it's picking up, but I'll try and tweak it this weekend.

Also JUST ran into my First issue with the CM rotor---9521a. I had read a few forum comments on this model...and it seems that if you rotate (when you are playing around with it---like I was) up to 360 and back to 0, it looses it's "bearings". So your saved settings (for me---Philly and NYC) don't "match up" anymore.

Again, something ELSE I'll have to tweak this weekend.

:mad:

dswallow

I noticed last night as well that I was picking up additional channels that I would not normally get. I picked up 22 more when I did a scan last night.

Some of the ones i remember were:

WCTX WB 20 out of Conn.
channel 14 (dont know from where) it was a shopping channel
channel 16 (dont know from where) it was a shopping channel
Telefutura 65-1
Univision 65-2
WCAU 67-1

Plus a number of analog channels, most of them seem like low power repeaters?

Originally posted by gjohnsen2002
Entropy,

Have you tried the RatShack on Main St Somerville (in the Pathmark shopping Center)

Gary
That's my next target. I'll likely be there tomorrow meeting a friend for lunch in Somerville. :)

There's also one on Rt. 22 I may try.

I have finally got my CM3041dsb in the mail and installed it last night. Replaced my existing RS amp. Unfortunately , except for some additional analog channels, I get no additional improvement on the digital side, still cant get Philadelphia ABC,FOX,NBC (I expected that).

... Next steps ????? can i use both amps??? . etc..

Thanks
Gary

No-go on the 2160 in Somerville.

Supposedly the following stores have it:
Parsippany
Madison
Cedar Grove??? (Was Cedar something.)

Cedar Grove store is on Rt.23.Cedar Grove is just North of West Orange and about 8 miles West of Newark.

I have finally seen ABC 6.1 !!!! Around 3:00 this afternoon, I witnessed part of the Mavs-Wolves game and 6.2 as well. It was VERY pixelated and could not get a steady picture, but I have witnessed it.

I also figured out my other problem I had with seeing a picture. My HD200 allows for 720p but my Panasonic TV only allowed 480p and 1080i. I finally remembered that setting on the STB, and changed it from VAR 1 to VAR 2 to upconvert 720 to 1080 and Eureka !!!

Now, to get a steady picture !!!! Can I /Should I combine both the 3041DSB and the RS 1191 together to try to boost the signal, or should I resort to adjusting the antenna again. I know I have it set to 229 degrees and illustratated on antennaweb.org.

Any suggestions as always would be extremely helpful !!!!
Gary

Originally posted by gjohnsen2002
I have finally seen ABC 6.1 !!!! Around 3:00 this afternoon, I witnessed part of the Mavs-Wolves game and 6.2 as well. It was VERY pixelated and could not get a steady picture, but I have witnessed it.

I also figured out my other problem I had with seeing a picture. My HD200 allows for 720p but my Panasonic TV only allowed 480p and 1080i. I finally remembered that setting on the STB, and changed it from VAR 1 to VAR 2 to upconvert 720 to 1080 and Eureka !!!

Now, to get a steady picture !!!! Can I /Should I combine both the 3041DSB and the RS 1191 together to try to boost the signal, or should I resort to adjusting the antenna again. I know I have it set to 229 degrees and illustratated on antennaweb.org.

Any suggestions as always would be extremely helpful !!!!
Gary
The best way to aim an antenna is to twist it while someone is watching the quality of the signal. FRS radios are good for the communications aspect of this. Make sure to be behind the 4228 when doing this, that will minimize the effect you have on the antenna pattern.

Combining the 3041DSB with the 1191 may or may not help. Chances are it won't, and chances are good that it will hurt. (The 1191 will overload if there is a strong station nearby.) It's worth trying, but don't be surprised if it hurts. (Most likely candidate for overload is WNJB 58)

What with all the reports of people able to receive rather distant signals just by reaiming the antenna, I think the best solution is an IR remote rotator like the Channel Master 9521A (<$70). That gives you the most flexibility.

Originally posted by dswallow
webboy, where would any antenna go that you installed? Outside on a mast off your roof or in the attic?

If you can do it yourself, start with a Channel Master 4228 UHF antenna and a rotator such as the Channel Master 9521A. You can order online from www.warrenelectronics.com (they're listed as an onlinedealer at Channel Master's site). I've not found anyone around the area selling this stuff in a retail store.

Picking up the NYC stations will be a hit or miss thing, as you are quite far from them, however you should be able to get almost all the Philadelphia stations.

Thanks for the info, Doesn't matter to me where the antenna goes it was the wife i needed to convince. So today i bought the Silver Sensor for starters. I just happen to walk threw sears. I am now receiving cbs, abc, and pbs all out of philly.

A rotor with a remote seems to be the smartest thing as i can now see the signals getting stronger with every adjustment of the antenna. And i can tell you first hand how the weirdest places i place the antenna the signal gets stronger and weaker.

Any thoughts on the Terk TV55? I will return the Silver Sensor as soon as i order the Channel Master. I was thinking of playing with the Terk also. A friend of mine is waiting on my results before they start the OTA nightmare NJ seems to be. They are in a APT/Townhouse and probally couldnt mount an antenna on the roof, and have no attic.

I made the wife watch the Phillies game and i think she now sees the light on a roof antenna (Finally!).

Originally posted by webboy10169

Any thoughts on the Terk TV55? I will return the Silver Sensor as soon as i order the Channel Master. I was thinking of playing with the Terk also. A friend of mine is waiting on my results before they start the OTA nightmare NJ seems to be. They are in a APT/Townhouse and probally couldnt mount an antenna on the roof, and have no attic.

I

Believe it or not, the Silver Sensor is a better buy and will yield better reception than the Terk IMHO. I live in a condo also and have a CM 4228 up in the attic.

Good luck ..
Gary

Originally posted by webboy10169
Thanks for the info, Doesn't matter to me where the antenna goes it was the wife i needed to convince. So today i bought the Silver Sensor for starters. I just happen to walk threw sears. I am now receiving cbs, abc, and pbs all out of philly.

A rotor with a remote seems to be the smartest thing as i can now see the signals getting stronger with every adjustment of the antenna. And i can tell you first hand how the weirdest places i place the antenna the signal gets stronger and weaker.

Any thoughts on the Terk TV55? I will return the Silver Sensor as soon as i order the Channel Master. I was thinking of playing with the Terk also. A friend of mine is waiting on my results before they start the OTA nightmare NJ seems to be. They are in a APT/Townhouse and probally couldnt mount an antenna on the roof, and have no attic.

I made the wife watch the Phillies game and i think she now sees the light on a roof antenna (Finally!).

I *think* the general consensus is to RUN not WALK away from the Terk products :p

Not much "bang for your buck" AFA reception capabilities, especially if you are 20+ miles or so from the transmitters.

Did you not have any luck getting NBC (WCAU) out of Philly in HD?? If so you're one of the many :D :D :D

Your best bet, if you can do it yourself, would be a rotor and a quality UHF type antenna (CM, Weingard, RS etc...). Just ask a question and I'm pretty sure most of the folks here would be able to give you an educated answer....or at least BS to sound like the knew what they were talking about ;)

Originally posted by webboy10169

Any thoughts on the Terk TV55? I will return the Silver Sensor as soon as i order the Channel Master. I was thinking of playing with the Terk also. A friend of mine is waiting on my results before they start the OTA nightmare NJ seems to be. They are in a APT/Townhouse and probally couldnt mount an antenna on the roof, and have no attic.
The Terk TV55 is a piece of junk. You might as well hook a dummy load in place of antenna, it would probably work better. :)

Originally posted by jaypb
I *think* the general consensus is to RUN not WALK away from the Terk products :p

Not much "bang for your buck" AFA reception capabilities, especially if you are 20+ miles or so from the transmitters.

Did you not have any luck getting NBC (WCAU) out of Philly in HD?? If so you're one of the many :D :D :D

Your best bet, if you can do it yourself, would be a rotor and a quality UHF type antenna (CM, Weingard, RS etc...). Just ask a question and I'm pretty sure most of the folks here would be able to give you an educated answer....or at least BS to sound like the knew what they were talking about ;)

We played with antenna placement lastnight printed out degree marking and whipped out the old compass and started pointing in different directions. I was still only able to tune in 3 channels with any clarity; cbs, abc, nj pbs affiliate . Other channels were snowy and seemed to be just analog channels anyway.

Im now looking at the channel master fly swatter antenna and will probally order it today. My wife asked me a question i couldnt answer about a rotor. How does it get power to rotate? Would i have to run a power line to the roof and if so what would be better to just put it in the attic where there is plenty of electric.

BTW CBS OTA looks SOOO much better than DirecTV CBS. The wife now has the bug...
TIA!

My wife asked me a question i couldnt answer about a rotor. How does it get power to rotate? Would i have to run a power line to the roof and if so what would be better to just put it in the attic where there is plenty of electric.

The power comes through the 3 or 4 conductor control cable that you run from the indoor control box to the rotor. It's low voltage, usually 12 to 24 volts.

Ray

Originally posted by webboy10169
We played with antenna placement lastnight printed out degree marking and whipped out the old compass and started pointing in different directions. I was still only able to tune in 3 channels with any clarity; cbs, abc, nj pbs affiliate . Other channels were snowy and seemed to be just analog channels anyway.

Im now looking at the channel master fly swatter antenna and will probally order it today. My wife asked me a question i couldnt answer about a rotor. How does it get power to rotate? Would i have to run a power line to the roof and if so what would be better to just put it in the attic where there is plenty of electric.

BTW CBS OTA looks SOOO much better than DirecTV CBS. The wife now has the bug...
TIA!

I also have an E86 and am using the "fly swatter antenna" (ChannelMaster 4228 ;) and have had decent results....again, the area I'm in seems to be hit or miss with getting ALL of the Philly locals (WCAU-DT especially). I also have a pre-amp (CM 7775) that has improved my ability to pick up WPVI-DT out of Philly.

AFA the rotor---I put up a CM 9521a 2 weeks ago and since then it has "lost" it's true north bearing...I believe there are several threads on this site dealing with the issues with this rotor. I'm happy that I can AT LEAST tool around from the basement since it came with a remote. Easy to hook up as well. Run the 3 wire cable to the roof, pop a hole in the side of the house near the ledger board, run the cable through the wall to the basement and voila! Same goes for the CM 4228--go to Radio Shack, get your masting, get your mounts and voila! Of course it's easier if you have a roof that's easy to work on---I'm in a ranch style house, so I had NO problems....of course, my antenna isn't as high as I'd like it to be...but, what are you going to do....:rolleyes:

Hi, I don't have my rotator up yet but was wondering if one of you guys with it connected could try to tune in something for me. I want to see if I can get MTV2 OTA, the 10000watts website says they are broadcasting low power. I'm in Metuchen (middlesex county) the tower is in Cranford, pretty close.... here's the info. Thanx!

WLBX-LP
22 ID: Cranford
Network Service: MTV2- videos

Facilities: 9.42 kw DA, 40° 42' 42" N 74° 21' 22" W
CP: move to channel 46, 50 kw, 40° 44' 46" N 73° 58' 52" W

Anyone getting a "lock" on the NEW digital PBS station out of New Brunswick that was supposed to go live today, 4/1/03??? I checked this Am and noticed a "52-2" on my E86 guide---was PBS You...didn't notice it last night, so I'm not sure if my E86 mapped it to 52-2.

Anyone??

I noticed last night that WNJT, PBS out of Trenton had switched to 52-1, 52-2 instead of the usual 43-1 and 43-2. They have done this in the past. There analog signal is on channel 52 which is why I think they will switch to 52-1 etc.

Originally posted by jaypb
Anyone getting a "lock" on the NEW digital PBS station out of New Brunswick that was supposed to go live today, 4/1/03??? I checked this Am and noticed a "52-2" on my E86 guide---was PBS You...didn't notice it last night, so I'm not sure if my E86 mapped it to 52-2.

Anyone??
I'll try tonight. If it's on, I'll be able to receive it, I'm VERY close to NB.

channel remapping = evil.

Originally posted by Entropy512
I'll try tonight. If it's on, I'll be able to receive it, I'm VERY close to NB.

channel remapping = evil.

I agree with the remapping idea. I'm *usually* at head scratching stage when it comes to trying to figure out JUST what channel it is I'm watching. I'm not sure if it's a Directv database issue or a Hughes database issue or what...but the fact that "57-1" comes up for Local Channel and NOT as WPSG-DT is sometimes confusing...as well as "43-1/2/3/4" as Local Channel and NOT the PBS channel out of Trenton (which, BTW I STILL don't have a clue WHAT the call letters are).

Just this week I've noticed a "67-1" local channel (is this the same as virtual channel 10-1??) since I can't get that channel AT ALL. I've also seen "32-1" local channel...which is actually 57-1. Same thing goes for 6-1 and 6-2 and 64-1/2.

Maddening!!!

Originally posted by Johnr0836
I noticed last night that WNJT, PBS out of Trenton had switched to 52-1, 52-2 instead of the usual 43-1 and 43-2. They have done this in the past. There analog signal is on channel 52 which is why I think they will switch to 52-1 etc.

What kind of STB are you using? I have a Hughes E86. I sometimes wonder if it's the STB causing the confusion and/or PSIP issues that go along with the virtual designations/channel re-mapping.

I've only been playing this game for the better part of a month...and it's quirky...as that NY Times article that's been posted ad nausem talked about . I watch that PBS demo loop on 43-2/3 religiously at night. My two rugrats (2 1/2 and 5 1/2) are mesmerized by the picture quality/nature scenes/landscapes.

Is the demo loop on WHYY-DT and the New York PBS's the EXACT same ones at the EXACT same times??? Just curious as I STILL can't pick up ANY HD demo loops other than the one on 43-2/3.

Originally posted by dflint
Hi, I don't have my rotator up yet but was wondering if one of you guys with it connected could try to tune in something for me. I want to see if I can get MTV2 OTA, the 10000watts website says they are broadcasting low power. I'm in Metuchen (middlesex county) the tower is in Cranford, pretty close.... here's the info. Thanx!

WLBX-LP
22 ID: Cranford
Network Service: MTV2- videos

Facilities: 9.42 kw DA, 40° 42' 42" N 74° 21' 22" W
CP: move to channel 46, 50 kw, 40° 44' 46" N 73° 58' 52" W

I don't see that channel listed at antennaweb.org.

Not sure exactly how or WHY MTV2 would be OTA.

Just noticed on www.antennaweb.org that WNJB-DT is showing up today as "UNDER REVIEW"....is that good or bad AFA getting a signal today? I notice the same thing for WYBE-DT out of Philly (34) that I can and have been getting a steady signal lock on...yet no picture or "channel not available" shows up on my guide/on screen bar.

For some reason I can not pick up WHYY-DT out of Philly. Can anyone in Central NJ pick that up??

jaypb

I'm in Freehold and cant pick up WHYY-DT but I can pick up the analog version.

Originally posted by wward
jaypb

I'm in Freehold and cant pick up WHYY-DT but I can pick up the analog version.

Wward,

Since I hooked up my CM 7775 pre-amp, I've lost my analogs below Channel 13, as my CM4228 is a UHF antenna and the pre-amp is UHF as well. Not a big deal though....I just wish I could pick up WCAU and a few more PBS's....then I'd be...happier :(

That and a wee bit of ESPN-HD would do the trick...:p

Originally posted by jaypb
I also have an E86 and am using the "fly swatter antenna" (ChannelMaster 4228 ;) and have had decent results....again, the area I'm in seems to be hit or miss with getting ALL of the Philly locals (WCAU-DT especially). I also have a pre-amp (CM 7775) that has improved my ability to pick up WPVI-DT out of Philly.

AFA the rotor---I put up a CM 9521a 2 weeks ago and since then it has "lost" it's true north bearing...I believe there are several threads on this site dealing with the issues with this rotor. I'm happy that I can AT LEAST tool around from the basement since it came with a remote. Easy to hook up as well. Run the 3 wire cable to the roof, pop a hole in the side of the house near the ledger board, run the cable through the wall to the basement and voila! Same goes for the CM 4228--go to Radio Shack, get your masting, get your mounts and voila! Of course it's easier if you have a roof that's easy to work on---I'm in a ranch style house, so I had NO problems....of course, my antenna isn't as high as I'd like it to be...but, what are you going to do....:rolleyes:

Thanks for the info i may attempt this soon in between other house projects (laying a patio or at least starting it this weekend) I must get this done very soon as my guys are comming soon to finish off the family room and master bedroom. Install the rest of the equipment and hang the plasma over the fireplace. Im hoping i can follow the wires from the dish to my "command central" closet upstairs programming the pronto should be fun also

The wife noticed tonight there were new channels showing up so we rescanned the air and this is what were now receiving. I guess last nights snow really affected what was available:

WKYW-DT 3-1 (CBS)
WPVI-DT 6-1 (ABC)
WCAU -DT 10-1 (NBC) WEAK/NO SIGNAL :( 30% STRENGTH
WPHL-DT 17-1 (WB)
NJN1-DT 52-1 (PBS AFFIL)
NJN2-DT 52-2 (PBSYOU)
NJN3-DT 52-3 (PBS AFFIL) DUPE OF -1
NJN4-DT 52-4 (PBSYOU) DUPE OF -2
WPSG-DT 57-1 (UPN)
UNIVISI 65-1 (SPANISH)
TELEFUT 65-2 (SPANISH)
WCAU-DT 67-1 (NBC) WEAK/NO SIGNAL :( 30% STRENGTH
WCAU-DT67-2 (NBC) WEAK/NO SIGNAL :( 30% STRENGTH

Ive read all over this board that the hughes E86 isnt that great at pulling in signals. Do you think it would be worth the effert and trouble to try the receiver that came with my Panny TV to receive OTA???

Hey jaypb, thanks for the reply!
I didn't see it on antenna web either, but 1000watts.com had it listed there as a low power transmitter, and they had some fcc info on it as well. I saw it listed on some other site also. I was suprised to see it as an OTA channel also, and was wondering if anyone out there could confirm that they are OTA. Thanks!

WCAU....it DOES exist!!!

Came home tonight and to my surprise I had a feeble lock on 10-1 during Frasier...for about 20 seconds with pixelation before I accidentally hit the channel up button. IT REALLY DOES EXIST...LOL!!!

Having said that, tonight's the best night in a while for HD viewing signal wise. Everything but WHYY and WPHL out of Philly is viewable tonight without me having to adjust my rotor. I'm too lazy to try and fiddle (AKA hit the up/down button on the rotor remote :p) ...maybe if I get the energy before I go to bed I'll give it a shot.

Anyone else notice 10-1 coming in tonight....I know webboy10169 said he had a 30% signal...that's what mine was when I checked it after I lost the lock.

Ahhhh, the beauty of catching an OTA signal...

Originally posted by webboy10169
Thanks for the info i may attempt this soon in between other house projects (laying a patio or at least starting it this weekend) I must get this done very soon as my guys are comming soon to finish off the family room and master bedroom. Install the rest of the equipment and hang the plasma over the fireplace. Im hoping i can follow the wires from the dish to my "command central" closet upstairs programming the pronto should be fun also

The wife noticed tonight there were new channels showing up so we rescanned the air and this is what were now receiving. I guess last nights snow really affected what was available:

WKYW-DT 3-1 (CBS)
WPVI-DT 6-1 (ABC)
WCAU -DT 10-1 (NBC) WEAK/NO SIGNAL :( 30% STRENGTH
WPHL-DT 17-1 (WB)
NJN1-DT 52-1 (PBS AFFIL)
NJN2-DT 52-2 (PBSYOU)
NJN3-DT 52-3 (PBS AFFIL) DUPE OF -1
NJN4-DT 52-4 (PBSYOU) DUPE OF -2
WPSG-DT 57-1 (UPN)
UNIVISI 65-1 (SPANISH)
TELEFUT 65-2 (SPANISH)
WCAU-DT 67-1 (NBC) WEAK/NO SIGNAL :( 30% STRENGTH
WCAU-DT67-2 (NBC) WEAK/NO SIGNAL :( 30% STRENGTH

Ive read all over this board that the hughes E86 isnt that great at pulling in signals. Do you think it would be worth the effert and trouble to try the receiver that came with my Panny TV to receive OTA???

Can you pick up 43-1/2/3/4 on your E86---I can...since we've got the same STB I'm intigued to see what you can/can't get. I believe "43" is the PBS station out of Trenton...I've just noticed (i.e. this AM) that 52-2 was "live"...and it's the HD loop.

I'll have to do a rescan and see if my STB picks up 67-2. There was also a 66-1/2 a week or so ago on my E86...believe it mirrored the programming on 65-1/2...except 65-1 was the same as 66-2 and vice versa.

Hey jaypb,

Speaking of breakthroughs !!!

I can see ABC with a stable signal tonight !!!!!

Also, my HD200 is doing strange things... I wonder if DirectTv did a firmware upgrade to the box.

My box now scrolls No Signal when a digital signal can not be reached !!
Also when I press the signal button, it now shows the analog equivalent of the digital signal.

Gary

Am going to post this on a separate thread !!!!

WLBX analog 22 from Cranford has been on the air for at least a year.Receive it perfectly in West Orange.

Originally posted by jaypb
Can you pick up 43-1/2/3/4 on your E86---I can...since we've got the same STB I'm intigued to see what you can/can't get. I believe "43" is the PBS station out of Trenton...I've just noticed (i.e. this AM) that 52-2 was "live"...and it's the HD loop.

I'll have to do a rescan and see if my STB picks up 67-2. There was also a 66-1/2 a week or so ago on my E86...believe it mirrored the programming on 65-1/2...except 65-1 was the same as 66-2 and vice versa.

as of 9pm my last post listed all the channels i can receive right now cant check now tivo'ing 24 and playing xbox.

As with most TV licenses, the database lists the name of the community which the station is meant to service; the actual lat/long will tell you where the tower (or transmitter in this case) is actually located.

The WLBX-LP transmitter is located atop Overlook hospital in Summit NJ. It's antenna is directional, and is pointed towards Newark and lower Manhattan. I maintain commercial facilities, and am quite familiar with the installation located there. Due to the topography, you probably will not receive this channel in Middlesex county. While the Summit site provides a clear line-of-sight shot into Newark and NYC, it is shadowed by a higher ridge of the Watchung mountains to the SSW. The station is also running low power into a directional antenna. The station was known at one time as the "Video Jukebox" channel, where viewers would call a 900 number to see their favorite videos (mostly rap music). The original owner also had another similar installation atop the old WWHT tower atop Eagle Rock in West Orange NJ.

I had heard Paxson had bought out both stations, and filed for a CP for the other coordinates below, which when plotted, show up as the Empire in midtown Manhattan. I am not sure,, but this may now be the Paxson (PAX) station for the NYC area nowadays.

In the early days I knew the owner, and hooked my buddy up to go to the facilities once a week to swap out the laser discs in the video disc changers inside the transmitter cabinet. Within a short amount of time, once he had enough of these LP stations on the air, he went to hard-drive based pc servers which received daily downloads via data line or vsat receivers. Very interesting setup at the time; old news in this day and age. The last I heard he cashed in and sold the licenses to Paxson. This was just before PAX hit the airwaves around the country.


Eric





Originally posted by dflint
Hi, I don't have my rotator up yet but was wondering if one of you guys with it connected could try to tune in something for me. I want to see if I can get MTV2 OTA, the 10000watts website says they are broadcasting low power. I'm in Metuchen (middlesex county) the tower is in Cranford, pretty close.... here's the info. Thanx!

WLBX-LP
22 ID: Cranford
Network Service: MTV2- videos

Facilities: 9.42 kw DA, 40° 42' 42" N 74° 21' 22" W
CP: move to channel 46, 50 kw, 40° 44' 46" N 73° 58' 52" W

As of 6:25 AM I STILL am able to view WCAU-DT with a signal strength of 37. What was the "tropo" forecast for last night/today? Just seems odd that for a solid month I got "Gotz" with regards to WCAU (10-1) and now it's locked in. OR, did they flip the switch on the higher power/new tower?

As of 6:25 AM I STILL am able to view WCAU-DT with a signal strength of 37

jaypb-
Is WCAU broadcasting in the UHF or VHF spectrum?? Over the weekend, I switched back to the CM7775 pre-amp (UHF only) and this morning, I am seeing incredibly strong signals out of Philly.

3-1 is 100%
6-1 is 69%
29-1 is 36%

These are the only ones I can remember off the top of my head.

IF WCAU is on the VHF spectrum, I'll go up in the attic and switch to the 3041dsb preamp and re-scan.

Let me know.

Originally posted by SteveK2
jaypb-
Is WCAU broadcasting in the UHF or VHF spectrum?? Over the weekend, I switched back to the CM7775 pre-amp (UHF only) and this morning, I am seeing incredibly strong signals out of Philly.

3-1 is 100%
6-1 is 69%
29-1 is 36%

These are the only ones I can remember off the top of my head.

IF WCAU is on the VHF spectrum, I'll go up in the attic and switch to the 3041dsb preamp and re-scan.

Let me know.

Steve-

WCAU-DT is I believe allocated to channel 67 in the UHF universe...so it's UHF. I'm also using the CM 7775. I've got the "overload" on PBS 50-1/2/3...not sure where that station is based out of...but Channel 58 from New Brunswick is only about 10 miles away or so...and I assume that's the culprit since I didn't have the issue before I hooked up the pre-amp.

Also, I don't think PBS in New Brunswick went "live" yesterday on Channel 8 like they were supposed to. I don't have a VHF antenna...so I'm not sure if my CM 4228 would pick it up.

Anyone getting a blip out of Digital Channel 8???

Thanks. I'm going to switch over to the 3041dsb anyway. When it was hooked up last week, I was able to get most of the NYC and Philly VHF channels, even though my CM 4228 is pointed at Philly. So I should be able to tell you if anything comes thru on Channel 8.

What do you mean by 'overload' on NJN 52?? I'm probably less than 5 miles from 52's transmitter and less than 1 mile from WMGQ/FM. I've wondered if their signals are causing me any problems. How does 'overload' appear on-screen?


BTW...just did a re-scan of digital channels. Still picked up 7 total, but it seems 29-1 dropped off and a new one appeared -- 46-1/2. It looks like channel 69 out of somewhere in Pennsylvania.

rcodey, since you can tune the station in, is it PAX or MTV2?
KK2ED, I remember the 'video jukebox' or the 'box' as it was listed by my old cable provider. I think that was before MTV2 was around, so I'm not sure whether you are correct. Anyways I'm just curious, being soley reliant on OTA signals for my tv viewing pleasure. A music channel would be a welcome addition to the run of the mill networks.

I have a question, when I install the rotator, do I aim it magentic north (from the compass) or adjust it accordingly to my lat, long to 'true north'? And those of you who have a compass where can I get one from? The only one I was able to find was one of those round car compasses you stick on the dashboard of your car. will that work?

Also how much mast can I attach to the rotator, safely? Thanx!

Originally posted by SteveK2
Thanks. I'm going to switch over to the 3041dsb anyway. When it was hooked up last week, I was able to get most of the NYC and Philly VHF channels, even though my CM 4228 is pointed at Philly. So I should be able to tell you if anything comes thru on Channel 8.

What do you mean by 'overload' on NJN 52?? I'm probably less than 5 miles from 52's transmitter and less than 1 mile from WMGQ/FM. I've wondered if their signals are causing me any problems. How does 'overload' appear on-screen?


BTW...just did a re-scan of digital channels. Still picked up 7 total, but it seems 29-1 dropped off and a new one appeared -- 46-1/2. It looks like channel 69 out of somewhere in Pennsylvania.

If you look under this thread you'll see a pretty good description given by ENTROPY512 about the symptoms. Has to do with seeing an image of the channel that is closest (thus being highly amplified although it's not necessary) bleeding over onto other channels...or something like that. When I tune to 50-1/2 I see an overlaid image of what I assume is 58 buzzing through the screen. It's kind of hard to tell, since 50...and 58 are BOTH PBS NJ channels...but suffice to say the "50's" digital channels are unwatchable.

Channel 69 out of Pennsylvania...I'm remembering a 69-1 on my E86...but never getting a picture--think it was WPVT or something like that.

Check out the earlier pages of the thread for his EXACT description. Think it's somewhere around page 6 or so.

You want the rotator aligned such that you're aiming your antenna by compass headings and a listing of tower locations with compass headings adjusted for magnetic declination for your area.

Or you can aim your antenna to true north and use a list of tower locations with bearings unadjusted for magnetic declination.

Either way you're aiming in the correct location, and either way you'll fine tune the antenna for the best signal, likely eliminating multipath problems by aiming a bit off to take advantage of the nulls in your particular antennas sensitivity.

Anyone else with a recently installed Cm9521a rotor (the one with the infrared remote) having "issues" with it "losing" it's true north.(i.e. 235 ain't 235 degrees anymore)???

It was a thread a month or so back in the HARDWARE forum, but I haven't seen anyone here mention it. I installed mine a few weeks ago and I MUST have gone and did what I wasn't supposed to do...either auto synch or go from 0 degrees to 360 degrees "scanning"...because from what I read AFTER the fact, it throws the true north off.

Don't get me wrong...it's still cool to be able to move around the horizon...but now it's somewhat difficult to know EXACTLY where I am unless I send my wife outside to "see" which way the antenna is pointing. Oddly, I can pick up KYW (3-1) out of Philly from South to North with my CM 4228. Same goes for a few of the NYC locals.

I haven't noticed such problems, though I generally just move it between one of three locations. I'm thinking about turning it 180 degrees since my main moves are between 270 degrees and 12 degrees, and I don't like going around "the long way".

Originally posted by dswallow
I haven't noticed such problems, though I generally just move it between one of three locations. I'm thinking about turning it 180 degrees since my main moves are between 270 degrees and 12 degrees, and I don't like going around "the long way".

First thread I came across detailing the cm9521a issues (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=227882&perpage=20&highlight=9521A&pagenumber=1)

I KNOW there are more...but I guess it seems to be an issue with certain "batches" or production dates ?!?!?

Originally posted by jaypb
Steve-

WCAU-DT is I believe allocated to channel 67 in the UHF universe...so it's UHF. I'm also using the CM 7775. I've got the "overload" on PBS 50-1/2/3...not sure where that station is based out of...but Channel 58 from New Brunswick is only about 10 miles away or so...and I assume that's the culprit since I didn't have the issue before I hooked up the pre-amp.

Also, I don't think PBS in New Brunswick went "live" yesterday on Channel 8 like they were supposed to. I don't have a VHF antenna...so I'm not sure if my CM 4228 would pick it up.

Anyone getting a blip out of Digital Channel 8???
If they're on air, it's NOT at full rated power. I'm positive that when they go full power I'll have no problem receiving WNJB.

I'm in Piscataway. I get WHYY, but it sometimes breaks up quite a bit.

SteveD


Originally posted by jaypb
Just noticed on www.antennaweb.org that WNJB-DT is showing up today as "UNDER REVIEW"....is that good or bad AFA getting a signal today? I notice the same thing for WYBE-DT out of Philly (34) that I can and have been getting a steady signal lock on...yet no picture or "channel not available" shows up on my guide/on screen bar.

For some reason I can not pick up WHYY-DT out of Philly. Can anyone in Central NJ pick that up??

Aughhhhhh!!!

Can't get ABC again
Must have been good weather last night !!!

Well, after showing the wife that WCAU-DT DOES indeed exist on Tuesday night, we sat down to watch L&O on Wednesday night...and lo and behold the signal for 10-1 is a faint whisper yet again....as is 29-1!!! No fine tuning via the rotor improved either. Alas, was it all just a bad dream??? :p

Amazing. :eek:

Tune in Monday April 7th and you'll probably be able to get a decent signal.

The channel 22 screen has been blank for several months.The audio is music,but it is broken up.Seems like they might be using some type of encryption

Originally posted by dswallow
Tune in Monday April 7th and you'll probably be able to get a decent signal.

dswallow - OK, I'll bite. What's going to happen on April 7th that will provide a decent signal? :confused:

Originally posted by dswallow
Tune in Monday April 7th and you'll probably be able to get a decent signal.

Will ESPN-HD come in on my D* system as well on that date....or will that be 4/10....or will it be on Channel 426???
:cool:

Originally posted by dswallow
Tune in Monday April 7th and you'll probably be able to get a decent signal.

This have anything to do with the Hepburn Tropo forecast??? Dx'ing looks good for 4/6 and 4/7 right???

:D

Lots of info here!! Trying to sort out what works best. I/m in South Brunswick near Rt1, not far from the water tower. Would like to put the antenna in the attic. Attic has plenty of room, so the size of it is not an issue. Any recommendations for the antenna?? Also looking at the decoder boxes. Looking for just an OTA box since I have the Comcast HDTV setup. Trying to get WCBS and FOX digitally and whatever HD content. they have. I get WNBC, WABC, HBO, SHO and Comcast SPortsNet thru Comcast-HD service. Any suggestions??? Anyway to find out what type of success I would have before setting the antenna up and laying out the cash for the box? I checked on the Web and it appears that I/m 38 miles from the Empire State Building and 44 miles from Roxborough, PA where I think the antennas are. Thanks in advance. Dano

Originally posted by Calabs
dswallow - OK, I'll bite. What's going to happen on April 7th that will provide a decent signal? :confused:
http://www.globalserve.net/~hepburnw/tropo.html

Originally posted by jaypb
This have anything to do with the Hepburn Tropo forecast??? Dx'ing looks good for 4/6 and 4/7 right???

:D

Yep. :)

Originally posted by jaypb
Will ESPN-HD come in on my D* system as well on that date....or will that be 4/10....or will it be on Channel 426???
:cool:

The arivial of ESPN-HD is all roumor at this point as no concrete info has come out. Dish still doesn't have it as they were suppose to be first. Cox is the only one who inked the contract. As for it being on 426 this i doubt since the 400 block of channels are spanish programming. Tune in to the channel boomer in spanish is histerical.

Channel 90 is the test channel for the new HD Satalite.
Im GUESSING the channel numper would be in line with other ESPN channels possible in the 210's

Originally posted by webboy10169
The arivial of ESPN-HD is all roumor at this point as no concrete info has come out. Dish still doesn't have it as they were suppose to be first. Cox is the only one who inked the contract. As for it being on 426 this i doubt since the 400 block of channels are spanish programming. Tune in to the channel boomer in spanish is histerical.

Channel 90 is the test channel for the new HD Satalite.
Im GUESSING the channel numper would be in line with other ESPN channels possible in the 210's

Of course it won't be on 426 silly :D

If you've trolled around the forums on this lovely thing called the internet as I assumed you have, you've seen it all....as have I. "I just got off the phone with a CSR who confirmed the launch...." or "My brother's sister's brother is an installer and he said...". It's pretty funny actually:p

I've trolled the following forums:

Our very own HD Programming forum.
www.soundandvisionmag.com HD forum
www.dbsforums.com
www.dbstalk.com
www.hdtvoice.com
A yahoogroups forum or 4 :) as well

Along with a few others in my bookmarks, there's really NOTHING that can be gleaned until D* puts it on their website or we see it in cold hard print somewhere. I'm DYING for it just like the next guy. It's one of the main reasons I upgraded my D* service to HD. But, now that I've been sucked in by the "OTA HD signal reception game", I honetly haven't even WATCHED much HD on D* other than HDNet. CBS and ABC have sucked me in....as has that PBS Demo loop. Hell, I'll probably veg out in front of the TV as soon as NBC comes in on Monday with that Tropo wave ;)

Hd rules! Gleaning a troublesome HD signal doth not! But it's fun....and gets the wife to leave me alone for a little while:eek:

Originally posted by dano257
Lots of info here!! Trying to sort out what works best. I/m in South Brunswick near Rt1, not far from the water tower. Would like to put the antenna in the attic. Attic has plenty of room, so the size of it is not an issue. Any recommendations for the antenna?? Also looking at the decoder boxes. Looking for just an OTA box since I have the Comcast HDTV setup. Trying to get WCBS and FOX digitally and whatever HD content. they have. I get WNBC, WABC, HBO, SHO and Comcast SPortsNet thru Comcast-HD service. Any suggestions??? Anyway to find out what type of success I would have before setting the antenna up and laying out the cash for the box? I checked on the Web and it appears that I/m 38 miles from the Empire State Building and 44 miles from Roxborough, PA where I think the antennas are. Thanks in advance. Dano

You can give it a shot by buying a Zenith Silver Sensor STB indoor antenna for around 40 bucks at Circuit City...and I believe buy.com had them for $25.00 a few weeks ago. That way you don't have to go through the work/effort of putting in an antenna in the attic and running wires if you can get by with the STB antenna.

There ARE OTA specific STB's out there. I'm not familiar with model #'s or makers...but suffice to say if you go to the hardware forum here and do a search you'll find em. I'd go to bestbuy and look for some open box STB specials. I bought my DirecTV STB open box for more than 50% off the actual price. YMMV though. Best Buy has a decent return policy as well.

Rule of thumb #1: Rooftop antenna's *usually* pull in a better signal than indoor/attic mounted antennas. Try the SS first. Do a search on this forum and see if anyone is in your "area". I'm in Monroe Twp near Rte 18 area and can receive signals from Philly and NYC digitally/HD wise. There's at least one person on here using the Silver Sensor in Freehold and I believe he can pick up the stations you want. He uses an amp or a pre-amp as well.

Give it a shot.:cool:

jaypb & dano257

That person would be me I use the Silver Sensor and am able to pick up

WCBS-DT
WWOR-DT
WNYW-DT
WNJU-DT
KYW-DT

All with good signal strenth (65-75)

WPSG-DT
WTXF-DT

Occasionally with decent signal strenth.

I have just recently been playing around with combining two Silver Sensors and vertical & horizintal stacking I have had interesting results.

I'm located in Rutherford - 10 miles outside NYC. I've got a Silver Series on my front porch pointed at NYC. I did the scan in a Hughes e86 and only got a few channels picked up but nothing with a clear picture. No CBS, WB, PBS. Is there a step I am missing with the scan or set up?

kmfrain


The Silver Sensor is very directional the slightest movement one way or the other can mean the difference between getting a signal and not getting one. I would recommend trying different locations.

Also try placing the antenna back about 45 degrees with it fiont pointing up. That position has worked for me when I was trying to pick up a channel from Phily.