Bangor, ME - HDTV [Text View]

gwlbe

05-13-03, 08:25 AM

New member, so be kind. I have monitored the AVS Forum for two years. I have been able to aquire the info I need by being passive - there are plenty of experts and by the time a thread runs its course I have little to add. But, this thread has finally convinced me to join.

TV in Bangor is bleak, but its not the fault of the local owners (CBS, FOX, ABC, NBC is owned by Gannett), the population is too small to support the infastructure needed to provide HDTV.

The NBC HD is great I get a signal strength in the 90s on my DTC 100, PBS is OK in the 60s. From my location I'm in between the two so I have to move my antenna (attic installed modified RS double bowtie). I don't bother because rarely there is anything on PBS to watch. In fact I don't watch NBC that much, local weather and Golf. The CBS and ABC HD are upconverts, I can't receive either. I just ordered a new antenna to see if makes a difference.

ExpressVU looks tempting but additional equipment costs so far has deterred me. BTW I have talked with the ABC and CBS engineers. ABC low power till ordered to go higher, CBS upconvert, the tower is located 20 miles away and no plans to invest for the equipment for true HD. My .02.

Jay Ireland

05-13-03, 09:27 AM

Originally posted by gwlbe
But, this thread has finally convinced me to join.

gwlbe

This is the kind of response I had hoped for, maybe more folks are lurking and may now act.

I would like to think that DTV is still in it's infancy for the area, and it is incumbent upon us to "spread the word" In fact there are many places in the country that have less DTV !!!

I have been seen in the Sears, Circuit City and Best Buy, regularly talking to people to spark more interest. Friends, relatives and neighbors... join a forum, have a HDTV party ... Tell us how it went.

I am using DISH and get all the HD programming they offer, you may have heard of the upcoming new channels.

So this thread is a start and we are the pioneers

I am interested in your equipment and were you aquired it.

gwlbe

05-13-03, 10:35 AM

Jay Ireland

My Equipment:
Panny L300U (the NFC tv)
Mitsy vlp 2000 (blew up under repair)
Panny rp91
Panny rp62
Sampo 613
Denon 2803
DTC 100
Sony mini disk
phillips cd recoder
Yamaha RV9
Teac DBX cassette recoder
Klipsch reference series speakers w/ sw
Dalite hi gain 9' x 5' screen
2 jvc s-video vcr
JBL L100 speakers
Niles outdoor speakers
Sony 51" HDTV (the AFC tv)
Most of it purchased on line or thru Harbor Audio Video in Campden, there are not many choices in Bangor. Best buy is all right, I usually just purchase software there. I tried the panny e20 dvd recoder but after I tried out around 20 disks I envoked the 30 day rule. Most of my equipment was purchased to simulate a Led Zep concert which it appears after May 27th I will have the oppertunity.

Ooshka

10-07-03, 12:15 PM

There is word that the local CBS affiliate WABI will be broadcasting at full power by January and will pass CBS HD signals by then.... The Superbowl in HDTV will be cool! :)

gwlbe

12-15-03, 12:35 PM

Great news.

jkurlanski

12-15-03, 12:47 PM

That's great for up North! I'm just wishing WMTW (ABC Portland/Poland Springs) could get up to speed before Monday Night Football is over...almost too late. Is the ABC affiliate in Bangor broadcasting HD?

Jay Ireland

12-15-03, 01:03 PM

No, ABC is upconverting, and it's a low power broadcast. NBC is HD, PBS is capable but prefers multicasting, haven't seen any HD from them since initial test broadcasts last year

gwlbe

02-01-04, 07:14 AM

WABI HD looks great , thanks channel 5.

Brassua

02-05-04, 10:37 PM

Hi guys! I'm located in Bucksport which is the southern part of the Bangor Area and I've been enjoying DTV over the past year or so from CBS, NBC and PBS out of Bangor but I can't seem to get the ABC signal at all, I guess it's too weak right now for me to get it. Got a question for you all, which antenna are you using to haul the digital channels from around Bangor? I've been using the large Radio Shack (best one from 8 years ago) roof mounted VHF/UHF antenna with pretty good luck except for the fact that the antenna has been losened up to the point where it will move in big winds now. :mad: I'm going to be getting a new one for the roof when spring arrives (if ever) and was wondering which one was the best for long range VHF/UHF and HD reception.

Thanks

Ooshka

02-06-04, 08:11 AM

Channel 7 is running extremely low power, (I Have heard about 250 watts) so it is not at all unusual that your not getting the signal where you are. I am right in Bangor and can't get it.

Channel 5 is usually running about 75% power. Channel 2, I am not sure but believe they are running nearly full power. I get a signal in the 80's on my dtc100.

My antenna is an Omni I bought at clearance from Radio Shack, I would have preferred to get a better one, but I couldnt pass up the price.

If your right near downtown Bucksport, I would suggest replacing the antenna with a similar model to the one you have. Bucksport is in a hole for signal reception. There is a good site you can use as a reference in making your decision. it is: www.antennaweb.org.

Tell me, have you been experiencing any trouble with WABI's audio? I am trying to figure out if mine is a slighty weak signal problem or if they are still experiencing difficulties.

Hope this helps.
-Ooshka

DrJoe

02-06-04, 08:57 AM

According to the FCC, the stations in the Bangor area are broadcasting at the following effective radiated power (ERP) levels:

WVII-DT (ABC) 14 -- 1.84kW ERP STA (532kW ERP) OTA
WABI-DT (CBS) 19 -- 234kW ERP STA (363kW ERP) OTA
WLBZ-DT (NBC) 25 -- 500kW ERP STA (1000kW ERP) OTA
WMEB-DT (PBS) 9 -- 15kW ERP OTA

WVII, WABI, and WLBZ are broadcasting under "special temporary authorities" (STA's) -- lower power than their licenses actually permit. The first power is the STA, the second (in parenthesis) is the+ full rated power.

STA's have been given by the FCC to allow stations to save money for the short term, I don't remember when they are scheduled to run out (2006?); they could be rescinded at an earlier date (or extended) at the FCC's discretion.

At 1840W, WVII is using a very large microwave oven to power their transmitter (in Austin, from where I moved last summer, FOX was broadcasting at 300W -- so it could be worse).

Take care,

Joe

Brassua

02-06-04, 11:31 AM

Thanks for the info about Channel 7's operating strength, guess that explains why I can't get right now. :D

Yeah Bucksport kinda is in a hole for reception but with my big antenna on the roof I've been relatively happy with what I do it, I even get Channel 13 out of Portland fairly good but that is the analog signal and not the digital one.

Ooshka, No I haven't noticed any audio problems with WABI's DTV 19 signal, of course I don't watch WABI DTV a lot other then the news and a few programs so that might explain why I'm not hearing that.

I have thought about getting a new large Winegard antenna to be mounted on the edge of the roof (eve) and I’m also interested in that new Winegard SquareShooter antenna for local HDTV reception but not sure if it would really work well around here.

Jay Ireland

02-13-04, 05:16 PM

Originally posted by Brassua
Hi guys! I'm located in Bucksport which is the southern part of the Bangor Area and I've been enjoying DTV over the past year or so from CBS, NBC and PBS out of Bangor but I can't seem to get the ABC signal at all, I guess it's too weak right now for me to get it. Got a question for you all, which antenna are you using to haul the digital channels from around Bangor? I've been using the large Radio Shack (best one from 8 years ago) roof mounted VHF/UHF antenna with pretty good luck except for the fact that the antenna has been losened up to the point where it will move in big winds now. :mad: I'm going to be getting a new one for the roof when spring arrives (if ever) and was wondering which one was the best for long range VHF/UHF and HD reception.

Thanks

I am using the Radio Shack #15-2154 Model VU-120XR, had hopes of getting a tower in the future, we'll see.

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5
F003%5F001%5F002%5F000&product%5Fid=15%2D2154

I get spotty reception from ABC due to low power broadcast

Click the WWW button in my post for links to some helpful antenna and other H/DTV sites

Have fun

CPanther95

09-30-04, 09:38 AM

Official Bangor thread.

Any changes in HD since the last post in Feb.?

gwlbe

09-30-04, 10:49 AM

No changes in OTA, however, Adelphia is now offering HDTV. I use Direct Tv, but I think this is what Adelphia offers:
NESN
ESPN
Showtime
HBO
Cimemax
InHD 1&2
Bravo
Discovery
PBS

Ooshka

09-30-04, 11:21 PM

Also, MEPBS switched to MPBN upconvert on 9.1 and PBS-HD on 9.2 a few months back due to popular demand. They were multicasting PBS ORG, PBS KIDS, MEPBS and PBSYOU.

-Oo

Jay Ireland

12-25-04, 01:53 PM

There are responsibilities of the TV stations to the DTV transition that are required soon. Some I believe are due Dec 31, 2004, and may include increased power, not sure how STA's affect this, also

"The FCC has announced that by February 1, broadcasters must comply with the new digital broadcast television transmission standards, including implementing the PSIP standard to the full extent required by ATSC A/65B. [http://www.atsc.org/standards/a_65b.pdf]

PSIP Transmission Standards. The Program and System Information Protocol (PSIP) standard enable improvements to program guides, closed captioning and use of v-chip as well as enable channel number navigation using the familiar analog channel numbers to tune to new digital channel assignments. "

Maybe some of the Network Engineers can chime in and give us some details, any out there?

I emailed these folks back in 2002 and invited them to this thread...

I'll try again, if addresses are still good.

WVII ABC engrabc6@wvii.com

WABI CBS shilz@wabi.com

WLBZ NBC lgilbert@wlbz.com

CPanther95

12-25-04, 02:11 PM

Bangor is actually a decent HD market - for DMA #151, they're definitely ahead of the curve.

Jay Ireland

12-25-04, 04:04 PM

No surprise, but the local network email addresses are no longer good, I tracked down the newest adresses per their WEB sites, none are to the technical people, just PR. We'll see.

Yes the Bangor market is quite impressive, considering the market size! The middle of nowhere stigma !!!

I've lived between here and Omaha over the last few years, Bangor was on air before Omaha.

Hope to hear from the engineers, Omaha stations have embraced the AVS Forum.

Ooshka

12-25-04, 07:34 PM

I used to work at WABI, Shilz is Steve Hiltz, the current Program Director. He can be reached through there web site at www.wabi.tv. Terry Syde is the assistant chief in charge of the transmitter and more or less the one on top of the dtv transition. I have mentioned this site in the past to him but have yet to see him here. I discussed the PSIP requirements with him a few weeks back, the ruling had only been out a week or so and he hadn't heard about it yet. The actual date for PSIP is sometime in February (I believe it is 90 days after being published in the federal register.)

I also asked Terry about 5.1 audio for CBS programming that supplied it and he indicated that they can do it but it requires a switch be thrown when programming supports it, because so little of the programming is currently available 5.1 they rarely remember to switch. (It will likely require an update to their programming logs to indicate which programming supports it, or an automated system that will auto switch when 5.1 is sensed.)

-Ooshka

Ooshka

03-10-05, 09:22 AM

Is anyone else having issues with WLBZ's DT signal? I have always had occasional blips in there signal (Audio dropout and video re-syncing) but for the last week or so there digital signal has been completely unusable to me. I thought it might be a multi-path problem on my part but now i am not so sure. The problem seems to have really gotten worse since they enabled PSIP. (enabled remapping and started passing guide information.) I am using a DTC100 and have reset the box and done a scan to reacquire the channels.

George Thompson

03-10-05, 09:30 AM

Ooshka, when did you work at WABI? Certainly not in the mid '70's...lol when I did. I think Terry may have been the ACE back then too. I was a transmitter super and maintenance manager back then.
I like to keep an eye on one of my first markets. My previous boss at WTOS(Valley Communications) sold his cable systems to buy WVII. Don't know what happened to John.
George

Ooshka

03-10-05, 11:21 AM

I was in the production dept from 1976-1987. Gil (Maxwell) and Terry were ACE's through most of that time. Gil is now with MPBN. Dale is still CE.
-Oo

George Thompson

03-10-05, 11:25 AM

OMG, that was a long time ago. There but for the grace of G** go I. LOL. (Rick Knight one of the other engineers and I went on a Spring Break tour in Bermuda one spring.....)
Stuck at the net in NYC for past 24 years.
George

Ooshka

03-10-05, 10:46 PM

There have been several alumnus from Bangor make it to the city. Greg Snow was in production about the time you were there, He went on to CNN in Atlanta, Gary Thorne was an announcer and sports guy at the station for a time and is now the voice of the Mets. Michelle Marsh started in Bangor and last I new was still anchoring in NYC. There are a few others but they escape me just now.
-Oo

gwlbe

03-11-05, 04:33 AM

OOshka,
I've many problems with WLBZ too, DTC 100, same problems as you. most of it started when they started multicasting. I got feed up with 2, no HDTV on 7 and "moved". WABI has been flawless. I only get a signal of 71, and it never blips. 25 I get in the mid 80s and I can't lock on for a whole hour without it blipping, unwatchable.

Stan54

09-22-05, 01:07 PM

I'm wondering if anyone has any idea when WABI will begin permitting cable systems to use their digital signal. I'm in the Augusta area (Adelphia) and it would be great if CBS were available on the cable. WGME in Portland is owned by Sinclair and they are looking to make some money on granting rights, so it will be a while before we see them.

Ooshka

09-23-05, 06:43 PM

I think you will find that WABI is doing the same thing.... holding out for money. If past history is any indicator, it likely will be when analog shuts down. WABI doesn't have much incentive to offer it for free while analog is still active, and they have a large capital investment they wouldn't mind getting some help with.

-Oo
(I say past history because WABI held out for cable carriage fees a few years back when must carry was dropped. Many cable services didn't have CBS for several weeks or months while terms were agreed too.)

Stan54

09-23-05, 10:51 PM

Thanks, Ooshka. Other stations have knuckled under for Adelphia. WCSH (NBC), The FOX station, WMTW (ABC) and of course, PBS. WCSH held out the last time, but is there this time. I was surprised. It sure would be nice to have CBS. (UPN and WB make no difference to me except for Smallville on WB. That must be great on HD.)

Thanks again for your observation. I'll check back once in a while.

hayt

10-14-05, 11:51 PM

Hi, I live in Fairfield. Adelphia (BOOO!!HISS!!) told me they dont offer HD in Fairfield, so I am a D**TV customer. They allow me to get FOX, NBC, and ABC HD out of NY, which is where I am from. As far as HD OTA I can only get CBS (WABI) and PBS out of Orono. Both come in crystal clear. However, no WB or UPN for me. And yes, SMALLVILLE looks awesome in HD! I used to watch it in NY.
Does anyone know whether WVII is going full power, ever? Granted, with D**TV I don't NEED ABC from WVII, but it would be encouraging to see it one day!
By the way, I have the RCA F38310, with the DTC100, and a RS set top rabbit ears.

JOgden

12-05-05, 12:02 PM

I have a built-in tuner for my HDTV and can pick up WABI (CBS) and WLBZ (NBC) over the air. I cannot pickup WVII (ABC).

I live in Bangor, ME, near the mall. I called Adelphia and asked them about the free local broadcasts in HD and they said they offer CBS and PBS. Why is ABC not broadcasting in HD? All I want is to watch Lost in HD. Does anyone else in the area pickup ABC or know anything else on it?

JOgden

12-05-05, 12:44 PM

I just received this respone from WVII:
WVII-DT broadcasts our digital signal on channel 14 from our transmitter site on Blackcap Mountain in East Eddington. Currently that broadcast is a Standard Definition (SD) format. A date for conversion to the HD format has not been set, but will be considered pending upgrades to the transmission facility to provide increased power, a project planned for 2006.

Ooshka

12-05-05, 05:59 PM

WVII is running very low power right now on dt14, its doubtful you would get it even with a large outdoor antenna in Fairfield. Until September I was using a rotor and a UHF Yagi right in Bangor to pick it up, Even then it was hit or miss.

-Oo

JOgden

01-12-06, 12:18 PM

lilcasino

01-22-06, 02:20 PM

Any idea on how well a indoor antenna would work in Ellsworth? I get 7 and 12 perfect but nothing on their digital channels.

Ooshka

01-22-06, 11:17 PM

It is likely you will need an outdoor antenna. Channel 7 is such low power they don't get very far on digital, and channel 12's digital signal is in Dixmont with Channel 5's.

lilcasino

01-23-06, 11:38 AM

It is likely you will need an outdoor antenna. Channel 7 is such low power they don't get very far on digital, and channel 12's digital signal is in Dixmont with Channel 5's.

any idea on how well those dish clip on antenna type work? I live in an apartment so a antenna/mast isnt an option.

Ooshka

01-23-06, 01:19 PM

Reasonably well under the right conditions. The dish needs to be fairly high up (peak of the roof is preferred) if your low on a first floor balcony forget it. (no better than rabbit ears). The trouble is they are quite directional so if your in Ellsworth the main part of the antenna would see Dixmont fairly well, but East Holden may be problematic. See www.antennaweb.org for distance to towers and directions from you. If your more than 25 miles to a tower in my experience they don't work well at all.

-Oo

lilcasino

02-08-06, 08:46 AM

just an update, I was able to get WLBZ, channel 2 with my indoor antenna. I had the channel # wrong. I'm still tring to find WABI, WVII, and PBS.

Poundstone

04-02-06, 07:19 PM

Hi,

I am an Adelphia customer and I am trying to learn whether I can get the WABI HD signal. I had Direct TV (for about 4 days. I was denied a waiver to receive the local channels out of NY, so I cancelled the service.) and I was able to get WLBZ and WABI in HD using an off-air amplified antenna. My TV doesn't have a built in HD tuner, so it kinda stinks. I am used to getting all of the network stations in HD because I just moved to Hampden from the Boston area. Any ideas/suggestions? Thanks.

gwlbe

04-03-06, 02:48 PM

Adelphia has HD service which includes NBC, PBS, NESN, ESPN, ESPN 2, InHD, InHD2, and others. The receiver does not have a built in OTA tuner. A friend of mine bought a used DTC 100 for $30 at amazon.com which has the built in OTA tuner and he uses that with HD Cable. D* will give waivers for FOX HD and ABC HD in Hampden, the other two you need OTA. I would drop D* and go cable HD if not for the Sunday Ticket. Maine Viking Fan, wish I was a Patriot Fan most of there games are HD on WABI. Or you can always "move" with D*.

lilcasino

04-06-06, 12:14 PM

Does anyone know when WVII will start broadcasting HD content?

Stan54

04-06-06, 01:37 PM

Is there any fresh information as to when WABI will begin permiting cable to carry their digital signal?

JOgden

04-26-06, 10:54 AM

Here's an update for WVII:
Thank you for inquiring about Channel 7's digital and HD broadcasts.

Currently we do have a digital signal broadcasting on digital channel 7.1 At this time it operates at low power, but can be viewed in much of Bangor.
We have plans to increase the power and eventually broadcast in HD. Our current time line for these changes is now set to happen next spring.

Adrian O'C

04-26-06, 11:22 AM

Here's an update for WVII:

Argh. So yet another year to wait.

Oh well, when I can get a chance to watch them they're usually just showing paid programming anyway.

lilcasino

04-26-06, 03:30 PM

Here's an update for WVII:

next spring? good to see they're rushing to get this done.

Jay Ireland

04-26-06, 05:23 PM

Here's an update for WVII:

Geting a repsonse in itself is progress!!!

JOgden

04-27-06, 03:51 PM

I live right in Bangor, about 1/2 mile from the Bangor Mall and I cannot pickup 7.1 ABC's digital OTA broadcast, but I am able to pickup NBC and CBS with no problems.

lilcasino

04-27-06, 03:57 PM

I live right in Bangor, about 1/2 mile from the Bangor Mall and I cannot pickup 7.1 ABC's digital OTA broadcast, but I am able to pickup NBC and CBS with no problems.

really..i live in Ellsworth and can get wvii w/o issues tho i never watch it b/c its not in HD.

Stan54

04-28-06, 09:53 AM

It looks like you folks in the Bangor area are like us in the Augusta area. We are without CBS HDTV on the cable and you are missing ABC HDTV on the cable and over the air as well. The problem here could be solved by the cable picking up either Portland or Bangor CBS HDTV. We have WABI analog on our cable, but apparently WABI won't permit their HDTV signal to be carried. WGME in Portland is a Sinclair station, so they are trying to pull a holdup on the cable, I'm sure. I can't figure out why good old WABI won't let their signal be carried. It's hard to believe that Maine's first station is trying to stage a holdup as well. I prefer to think that it must be something else.

If anyone up there knows anything about WABI's cable intentions, I sure would like to know.

gwlbe

04-29-06, 06:20 AM

Its simple Adelphia will not pay WABI. They had big squabble about the analog coverage, WABI held a couple days but relented.

Stan54

04-30-06, 11:33 AM

And I hope that Adelphia will continue to refuse to pay WABI. Eventually, WABI will fold because they NEED to be on cable. In the meantime, cable HD viewers will pick up new viewing habits and the television station, however slightly, loses the war.

My thinking is that it would be better for the holdout stations to recognize the inevitable and jump on board quickly. On the other hand, I cannot be certain that I am not influenced in my opinion by my desire to add CBS to the cable HD lineup. In fact, I suppose that I am.

Right now, I know that I cruise the HD dial most of the time with a little time over on the analog news channels. I never check WABI's listings because I know that I won't be watching it. It's too bad because I have a soft spot in my heart for WABI after watching it sign on in January 1953. For about 50 years, I watched the Eastern Maine tournament being played on that channel and, now, it feels like an old friend. ...................... Like an old friend that I miss because our paths virtually never cross.

DrJoe

04-30-06, 03:42 PM

And I hope that Adelphia will continue to refuse to pay WABI. Eventually, WABI will fold because they NEED to be on cable. In the meantime, cable HD viewers will pick up new viewing habits and the television station, however slightly, loses the war.

I have to laugh at this -- we have had nearly the same discussion regarding WGME in Portland on the Portland, ME thread. The thing is, when they pull the analog switch, WABI will just drop "must carry" for their no-longer existent analog broadcast and switch it over to the digital broadcast. So Adelphia (or more likely Time Warner by then) will have no choice but to carry WABI in the future.

Right now, there is no advantage to WABI to have Adelphia carry their DTV signal -- in the first place, it is only a tiny percentage of viewers who have HDTV's. In the second place, when those who do have HDTV watch the DTV channel, they "lose" them for the Nielsen ratings of WABI's analog channel -- which is waht is used to set their advertising rates. (As far as losing your personal viewership goes -- this makes it a null-point. If you watch their DTV station, you are already lost as far as their Nielsen is concerned.)

Adelphia, however, has a competetive advantage over DishNet and DirecTV if they DO carry WABI's DTV signal. So I would think that there were good reasons for Adelphia to pay some nominal amount to carry it. But Adelphia doesn't see it that way.

Unfortunately, WE are the ones who lose out.

Joe

Stan54

04-30-06, 04:42 PM

I have to laugh at this -- we have had nearly the same discussion regarding WGME in Portland on the Portland, ME thread. The thing is, when they pull the analog switch, WABI will just drop "must carry" for their no-longer existent analog broadcast and switch it over to the digital broadcast. So Adelphia (or more likely Time Warner by then) will have no choice but to carry WABI in the future.

Right now, there is no advantage to WABI to have Adelphia carry their DTV signal -- in the first place, it is only a tiny percentage of viewers who have HDTV's. In the second place, when those who do have HDTV watch the DTV channel, they "lose" them for the Nielsen ratings of WABI's analog channel -- which is waht is used to set their advertising rates. (As far as losing your personal viewership goes -- this makes it a null-point. If you watch their DTV station, you are already lost as far as their Nielsen is concerned.)

Adelphia, however, has a competetive advantage over DishNet and DirecTV if they DO carry WABI's DTV signal. So I would think that there were good reasons for Adelphia to pay some nominal amount to carry it. But Adelphia doesn't see it that way.

Unfortunately, WE are the ones who lose out.

Joe

Do many cable companies pay some nominal amount to acquire carriage rights? Especially in the state of Maine?

DrJoe

05-01-06, 03:44 PM

Typically for cable channels, like ABC Family, ESPN, etc. they do. Sometimes, the requirement for carrying one channel is that they also carry anouther (i.e. the various flavors of ESPN) which they ALSO pay for.

For locals, the local affiliate can require "retransmission consent" i.e. charge the cable company for the signal (or in lieu of money require it be on a particular cable channel -- i.e. WCSH 6 actually be mapped to cable channel 6) -OR- they can elect to be "must carry".

Check out http://www.ctpaa.org/docs/CTPAABriefs_2005_01_01.pdf ("Must carry" summary). According to them, 80% of local broadcasts are under "retransmission consent" agreements. Network channels know that the cable company needs them, so they don't need "must carry", and can require compensation for their signals. Smaller, independent stations can still force the cable company to carry them under "must carry".

The "digital transition" is complicated by the dual analog/DTV broadcast, but the same basic rules apply -- except during the transition, the DTV signal is NOT covered by must carry IF they have an analog signal must carry -- there is a DTV only station in Florida that WAS determined to be covered by must-carry See http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Cable/News_Releases/2001/nrcb0102.html for details. Multicasting (like WCSH's primary HD, secondary weather, teriary analog rebroadcast) isn't yet covered.

CTPAA is a cable TV industry organization, so it is quite biased, but I believe the information is for the most part correct, and a good summary of must carry vs retransmission agreement.

They have a followup on multicasting in a later issue, http://www.ctpaa.org/briefs/oct_2005_issue_web.pdf

I haven't heard what compensation local affiliates are really able to get under retransmission agreements.

Joe

Stan54

05-02-06, 09:16 AM

DrJoe

05-02-06, 10:59 AM

Very good posting, DrJoe. It is a complicated process, but I can't help but thinking that the local television station should be DESPERATE to be included on the cable. The amount of money that they stand to be paid should be minimal compared to the number of eyeballs that they are missing if they are not carried. The cable automatically places a good clean version of their signal in front of those eyeballs.

Well, they ARE carried where it counts (the analog signal). The ONLY reason viewers are important to them is because they are counted in the Nielsen ratings, and the Nielsen ratings are used to set advertising rates, which is where the majority of their income comes from (admitedly, I don't know the split between income from national advertising on CBS versus local advertising on WABI). But they ONLY count you if you are watching the ANALOG version. Let's say you are watching "CSI Miami" on WABI analog channel 5 OTA or simulcast on cable. Then, if you are a Nielsen family, you are counted. But let's say you are watching OTA on channel 19 in HDTV, or on a hypothetical cable simulcast of 19. Then Nielsen doesn't count you for WABI 5.

Now, in reality, there are so few Nielsen families with HDTV that this is a negligible effect, but this is where your logic fails. It ISN'T an advantage to them when you watch their DTV broadcast. Most broadcasters wouldn't be broadcasting at ALL in DTV except for the fact that the government twisted their arms.

SO, all-in-all, that's why they aren't scrambling for your HDTV viewership.

Joe

(disclaimer: I've heard rumors that Nielsen was going to change the way they count DTV viewers, but haven't seen any documentation on it.)

Stan54

05-03-06, 01:49 PM

Well, they ARE carried where it counts (the analog signal). The ONLY reason viewers are important to them is because they are counted in the Nielsen ratings, and the Nielsen ratings are used to set advertising rates, which is where the majority of their income comes from (admitedly, I don't know the split between income from national advertising on CBS versus local advertising on WABI). But they ONLY count you if you are watching the ANALOG version. Let's say you are watching "CSI Miami" on WABI analog channel 5 OTA or simulcast on cable. Then, if you are a Nielsen family, you are counted. But let's say you are watching OTA on channel 19 in HDTV, or on a hypothetical cable simulcast of 19. Then Nielsen doesn't count you for WABI 5.

Now, in reality, there are so few Nielsen families with HDTV that this is a negligible effect, but this is where your logic fails. It ISN'T an advantage to them when you watch their DTV broadcast. Most broadcasters wouldn't be broadcasting at ALL in DTV except for the fact that the government twisted their arms.

SO, all-in-all, that's why they aren't scrambling for your HDTV viewership.

(disclaimer: I've heard rumors that Nielsen was going to change the way they count DTV viewers, but haven't seen any documentation on it.)

I don't know that I disagree with what you are saying, DrJoe, but I am inclined to offer the following thoughts and observations.

I think Nielsen uses as its information source boxes in selected homes to automatically record what the tv set is tuned to whether it is broadcast, cable or satellite. They might even supplement this with phone calls and log books, I really don't know. Do they only concern themselves with analog as opposed to digital over the air, cable or satellite? Maybe they do and I would not pretend to know otherwise.

Beyond Nielsen ratings, however, there is a simple fact that advertisers and station managers know well. They are losing analog eyeballs as the sales of digital television sets are increasing. I know that the number of sets out there is small in terms of percentage, but it is growing fairly rapidly across the country from what I have been reading. Surely, advertisers and station managers care deeply about that fact. The official ratings prevail I am sure, but the hard fact of the new popularity of digital television is not lost on these people. Still, however, I am sure that certain stations will continue to play hardball for some time to come.

Speaking for myself, I can say that I see the advertisements on WCSH and WMTW, but I virtually never see the advertisements on WABI and WGME. I believe this will be true for most owners of digital sets that receive their television from cable. At some point, there will be a change, but why not sooner rather than later? If I were an advertiser, I would be telling the station manager that I want to reach the eyeballs watching digital cable. It's probably as simple as that.

Thanks for your info, DrJoe, you always make a good contribution to these webpages.

DrJoe

05-03-06, 02:38 PM

Do they only concern themselves with analog as opposed to digital over the air, cable or satellite?

Per se, no. They care about what CHANNEL it is. As I understand it, whether you watch the analog OTA or analog cable version it is counted the same for channel 5. But if you are watching channel 19 OTA or the HDTV simulcast of 19 on digital cable then it is counted for 19 and NOT for 5. And they set their advertising prices based on 5. I don't know why they don't just add the viewership for 19 to 5.

I agree with you about lost viewers: when I moved to Maine from Austin, I stopped watching CBS, WB, and UPN. Now that I no longer have cable and have OTA DTV, I've stopped watching FOX (and started watching CBS again). Probably it is the networks themselves that should be concerned about this.

Thanks for your kind words.

Joe

Stan54

05-03-06, 03:43 PM

Per se, no. They care about what CHANNEL it is. As I understand it, whether you watch the analog OTA or analog cable version it is counted the same for channel 5. But if you are watching channel 19 OTA or the HDTV simulcast of 19 on digital cable then it is counted for 19 and NOT for 5. And they set their advertising prices based on 5. I don't know why they don't just add the viewership for 19 to 5.

I agree with you about lost viewers: when I moved to Maine from Austin, I stopped watching CBS, WB, and UPN. Now that I no longer have cable and have OTA DTV, I've stopped watching FOX (and started watching CBS again). Probably it is the networks themselves that should be concerned about this.

Thanks for your kind words.

Joe

To be perfectly correct, DrJoe, I think the ratings are actually concerned in which station is being watched rather than channel number. It is essential to them to know what station goes with each number that the source is feeding. For instance, on our system WPXT channel 51 is on cable channel 12. Nielsen has to know that fact to provide a rating. Therefore, I suspect that WMTW channel 8 being on cable channel 708 as well as cable channel 8 presents no problem for Nielsen whatsoever in producing an accurate count of viewers for the station.

Would you disagree?

DrJoe

05-03-06, 04:43 PM

To be perfectly correct, DrJoe, I think the ratings are actually concerned in which station is being watched rather than channel number. It is essential to them to know what station goes with each number that the source is feeding. For instance, on our system WPXT channel 51 is on cable channel 12. Nielsen has to know that fact to provide a rating. Therefore, I suspect that WMTW channel 8 being on cable channel 708 as well as cable channel 8 presents no problem for Nielsen whatsoever in producing an accurate count of viewers for the station.

Would you disagree?

Yes, I do disagree. *grin*

In the past, NIelsen did NOT count viewers of Adelphia 708 as OTA Channel 8. Viewers of Adelphia 708 were counted as viewers for OTA Channel 46. Channel 46 is treated by Nielsen as a DIFFERENT television station/channel than Channel 8.

There were rumors that Nielsen was going to change this, but I have seen no report that they actually have done so.

Like I said, I don't understand why they can't combine the results, but it may have something to do with the share for 46 being so small that Nielse throws it out rather than counting it.

By watching channel 46, they effectively lose you from channel 8.

Joe

Stan54

05-03-06, 06:38 PM

Yes, I do disagree. *grin*

In the past, NIelsen did NOT count viewers of Adelphia 708 as OTA Channel 8. Viewers of Adelphia 708 were counted as viewers for OTA Channel 46. Channel 46 is treated by Nielsen as a DIFFERENT television station/channel than Channel 8.

There were rumors that Nielsen was going to change this, but I have seen no report that they actually have done so.

Like I said, I don't understand why they can't combine the results, but it may have something to do with the share for 46 being so small that Nielse throws it out rather than counting it.

By watching channel 46, they effectively lose you from channel 8.

Joe

Joe, wouldn't you say that channel 46 would count as being WMTW? That is what really counts isn't it? In other words, they are counting the viewers of stations not channel numbers.

DrJoe

05-03-06, 06:56 PM

??

Stan, it doesn't matter what WE think, it is how Nielsen counts them that matters.

I agree with you, they should roll them together.

But they don't at least as far as I understand how it works (I wqas told this by a station engineer in Austin, and several other confirmed to me that ot works this way).

Nielsen counts them SEPERATELY. And I don't know why the local station can't add them together -- maybe they are so low that Nielsen throws them out or maybe the local advertisers won't let them.

Like I said it effectively doesn't matter because there aren't many folks in our neck of the woods with HDTV sets. It's just of acedemic consideration when someone who doesn't know how Nielsen works says that they should care about losing HDTV viewers.

Joe

Stan54

06-12-06, 01:01 PM

http://www.redorbit.com/news/technology/534002/an_eye_to_the_future_wabi_adds_exciting_new_cw/index.html?source=r_technology

lilcasino

06-28-06, 10:49 AM

does anyone have an update on WVII broadcasting in HD?

JOgden

06-28-06, 05:51 PM

does anyone have an update on WVII broadcasting in HD?
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7554617&&#post7554617

colebert

07-16-06, 06:36 AM

Coming up to Bar Harbor for vacation in August. Any feedback on how the Bangor stations come in? Looking to watch NFL pre-season games.

I checked antenna web, but I wanted to see if anyone out there. I saw a comment from someone in Ellsworth. Any Bar Harborers?

lilcasino

07-25-06, 08:38 AM

Can anyone with Adelphia tell me what HD channels they offer?

jdw1981

07-25-06, 11:57 AM

drbonbi

07-25-06, 12:37 PM

Here's a story from yesterday's BDN written by Mal Leary from the State House. http://www.bangornews.com/news/templates/?a=137774

The story reviews pending legislation, etc., but also quotes TWC Regional Vice President Melinda Poore on the transition:

"... Poore said TW is moving forward to consolidate the Adelphia systems into the existing Time Warner structure in Maine. She said an early change would be to establish a call center in Portland that will hire 150 people to handle calls from Maine customers.

"She said mailings are going to current Adelphia customers explaining the change, and the company will make a significant effort to expand its nonvideo services such as broadband and phone service to all of its new customers.

"The expanded Time Warner presence will have about 280,000 subscribers in Maine.

"'We can't do everything we would like to do on August 1st,' Poore said. 'It will take time to make the changes we think will be for the better. But we will be making them.'"

Dana

drbonbi

07-25-06, 12:43 PM

Can anyone with Adelphia tell me what HD channels they offer?

If you go here http://www.adelphia.com/cable_entertainment/channel_line_ups.cfm and enter a ZIP, you can find out the Adelphia lineup.

TWC has posted a web page here http://www.twcusoon.com/Sites/newengland/Default.aspx for New England customers whose cable co is changing to TWC.

Dana

drbonbi

07-25-06, 12:56 PM

I am wonder what will change and when with Adelphia, soon to be TWC as far as the HDTV policy. I would be nice to see a cable company that didn't encrypt what should be available with a clear QAM tuner. Does anyone have any insight as to what will happen to Adelphia's Bangor lineup after Aug 1?

stan54 posted this info on the Portland thread recently.

"I am on Adelphia Augusta and receive very, very little via the QAM tuner. With the cablecard, however, I receive FOX, NBC and ABC local, PBS, HD NET, HD NET Movies, ESPN 1 & 2, NESN, INHD, INHD2, Discovery Theater, NFL, and Fox Sports New England HD channels all for the $1.75 monthly rental of a cablecard."

I have been attempting to report some info on the Portland thread mainly regarding the SusCom Brunswick transition to Comcast and to a lesser extent, the Adelphia transition to TWC. In Brunswick, nothing happened as of the Comcast takeover date of May 1. My recurring monthly credit card payment went to Comcast in May. More recently a couple of HD and a couple of SD channels were added to the SusCom lineup but Comcast says it will be "early fall" before we'll see their full lineup. And the SusCom takeover by Comcast only involves about nine systems in a few states.

Since the Adelphia takeover is national in scope and 220 communities in Maine are involved in the changeover, I think it will be months before the transition is complete.

Dana

drbonbi

07-26-06, 01:16 PM

Hi there,

Here's a news story dated 7/25/06 on the Adelphia takeover by TWC. While it comes out of central Ohio, I think it reflects TWC's corporate approach as well as the realities of such a huge undertaking. It also seems to reflect what's been happening (or not happening) with the Comcast takeover of SusCom Brunswick.

Here's a few paragraphs. The entire story is here http://www.centralohio.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/B9/20060725/NEWS01/607250301/1002&template=B9

"NEWARK - As Time Warner Cable acquires Adelphia Communications Corp. at the end of the month, subscribers should see the same channels, rates and billing procedure - at least for a while, the company says.

"And, Time Warner Cable confirmed most jobs within Adelphia's infrastructure will remain, despite the takeover.

"Time Warner declined to release more details about new services, rate changes and jobs affected by the acquisition until next week, citing legal reasons.

"The only immediate changes customers will notice around the end of the month will be minor, like the Time Warner logo on their television screens and bills.

"'There won't be very many immediate changes because we will need to convert billing systems,' said Mary Jo Green, vice president of public affairs for the Time Warner Cable Mid-Ohio Division. 'Until then, (customers) will still use the same billing services and payment systems as before.'

"Adelphia filed for bankruptcy in 2002 when several company executives were convicted of conspiracy, bank fraud and securities fraud after looting the company and cheating investors out of billions of dollars.

"New management tentatively sold the company to Time Warner and Comcast in April 2005, and the takeover is expected to be completed on paper by July 31.

"Next week, Time Warner Cable plans to release details about upcoming rates, changes in service and new services offered. ... "

Dana

lilcasino

07-27-06, 05:52 PM

Read in the paper today that with the transition we will lose 2 channel ESPN-U and the NFL Network. Doesn't Adelphia carry the NFL Network in HD? I believe its happens August 1st.

drbonbi

07-27-06, 06:43 PM

lilcasino

07-28-06, 07:12 AM

drbonbi

07-28-06, 07:37 AM

There was an add in BDN yesterday. I am not a subscriber now, only get to see it at my parents house. Also heard that WABI will not be on the air as of August 1st due to failed negotiations with Timer Warner.

Hi lilcasino,

Thanks for the info. WABI (CBS) HD won't be on cable anywhere on and after Aug. 1 - unless a miracle occurs. Nothing new there. It isn't on any cable system, Adelphia or TWC, at the moment. I have tried to find out the state of present negotiations and will report back if/when I do.

I'm a bit surprised about the adv't you saw in the BDN. Based on experience and news reports elsewhere, we don't expect much to happen immediately after TWC takes over the Adelphia system. Adelphia does carry the NFL Network in HD at many locations.

Dana

lilcasino

07-28-06, 07:39 AM

here's the link to WABI..its not just HD it's the SD channel too

http://wabi.tv/story.asp?13577

drbonbi

07-28-06, 07:41 AM

here's the link to WABI..its not just HD it's the SD channel too

http://wabi.tv/story.asp?13577

WOW! TWC is playing hard ball!

Dana

Stan54

07-28-06, 05:11 PM

The idea that a cable company would be expected to compensate a television company for extending the viewing of its signal seem illogical to me. I know, I know. The signal has value to the cable company, therefore, why shouldn't they pay for that value?

Well, the television signal consists for the most part of paid vendor advertising and those vendors pay the television company at rates based upon the number of eyeballs reached. Cable carriage increases the number of eyeballs reached, therefore, why shouldn't the television company pay a portion of the resulting increased vendor revenue that they collect to the cable company for making that increased revenue possible?

OK, so the television company doesn't want to share their increased wealth with the cable company! So, then, why not give the cable company a great big hug and kiss for being there to extend their signal to a greater number of eyeballs? You would think that their gratitude for the increased coverage would know no bounds!

But, oh no! The television company is acutely aware that, should the cable company hold out until the very end, they will be able to simply inform the cable company that they "must carry" their signal whether they want to or not.

Such a deal!!!

Ahab53

07-29-06, 07:13 AM

WABI and TW apparently reached a three-year deal late last night, 7/28/06. I thought it all smelled of brinksmanship.

drbonbi

07-29-06, 07:25 AM

WABI and TW apparently reached a three-year deal late last night, 7/28/06. I thought it all smelled of brinksmanship.

See the next post for the details. Thanks for the tip!

Dana

drbonbi

07-29-06, 07:44 AM

"THURSDAY, WE TOLD YOU ABOUT THE POSSIBLITY OF WABI TV 5 BEING REMOVED FROM THE ADELPHIA CABLE SYSTEM WHEN TIME WARNER TAKES OVER FOR ADELPHIA ON AUGUST FIRST...

"WE ARE NOW PLEASED TO ANNOUNCE THAT WABI AND TIME WARNER HAVE REACHED A LONG-TERM DEAL THAT MEANS TV5 WILL CONTINUE TO BE CARRIED BY THE CABLE SYSTEM...

"THE DEAL WAS REACHED JUST MOMENTS AGO AND RESULTS IN A THREE YEAR EXTENSION OF ALL CURRENT CHANNEL POSITIONS OF WABI-TV5 ON ADELPHIA, WHICH BECOMES TIME WARNER ON TUESDAY...

"TIME WARNER WILL ALSO PICK UP WABI'S NEW AFFILIATE, THE CW, WHEN THE NETWORK IS LAUNCHED IN SEPTEMBER...THE CW WILL OCCUPY THE SAME CHANNEL AS THE CURRENT WB 100-PLUS SERVICE IN THE BANGOR TELEVISION MARKET... "

More here http://wabi.tv/story.asp?13589 The all caps style is in the original release.

The story citing the impasse has been pulled. It no longer exists. :rolleyes:

I note that the agreement references "all current channel positions" so I take that to mean that this agreement does not get WABI CBS HD on the Adelphia central and eastern Maine systems. :(

Dana

drbonbi

07-29-06, 08:35 AM

Read in the paper today that with the transition we will lose 2 channel ESPN-U and the NFL Network. Doesn't Adelphia carry the NFL Network in HD? I believe its happens August 1st.

lilcasino,

Apparently, the point I missed is that TWC doesn't carry the NFL Network in SD or HD. Or ESPN-U (which it not familiar to me). Check the TWC Portland lineup here http://www.timewarnercable.com/CustomerService/CLU/TWCCLUs.ashx?CLUID=180&Zip=04103&Image1.x=46&Image1.y=7&Image1=submit

The issue between TWC and the NFL Network is national and is discussed in USA Today "NFL, cable operators square off" here http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/mccarthy/2006-07-27-weekend_x.htm

Dana

Stan54

07-29-06, 01:50 PM

drbonbi

07-29-06, 02:43 PM

The CW Network will be a digital transmission by WABI, I believe, using the frequency allocated to WABI for its HD signal as well. It is my suspicion that the agreement might include all of its digital signal including HD. It does seem as if the announcement would have included this information if it applied, but it is my understanding that WABI is going to transmit the CW as a sug-channel of the digital frequency.

Stan54,

WABI's statement about "The CW is coming to Eastern & Central Maine" here http://www.wabi.tv/story.asp?10564 indicates that:

"TV5 will broadcast The CW over a secondary digital channel, continuing to offer a simulcast of its analog channel programming on its primary digital channel, including CBS network programming in high definition as available, and the full schedule of local and syndicated shows on WABI TV5."

So, I don't think that CBS in HD on its primary digital channel is in the deal. I hope I'm wrong.

Dana

lilcasino

07-31-06, 02:41 PM

emailed WABI on HD channel on Time Warner and got this reply

We had to table discussions involving digital carriage, as this was among
many issues that we we did not see eye-to-eye on. We both felt it was
important to get the basic tier services squared away for all TWC
subscribers, so we focused on that, and agreed to continue discussion on
these other issues.

Currently, we plan to broadcast The CW in standard def only, as we need
more of the currently operable spectrum to maintain CBS in HD, so, for
now, Our CW will not be in HD at all - let alone on cable. Of course, as
we continue to upgrade our digital investment, we do plan to have HD for
The CW, as well, and we WOULD like to be on cable in HD with both
channels. Just have some things to work out, and we're continuing talks
on this and some other matters that we had to set aside in the short term.
Thanks for the question and the interest. I'll make sure upper management
sees this as we continue discussions with TWC and other carriers.

Steve Hiltz
Program Director

drbonbi

07-31-06, 03:13 PM

lilcasino,

Thanks for sharing! I'll post on the Portland thread with full credit to you.

Dana

Stan54

08-01-06, 03:52 PM

Yes, thanks for sharing. It seems clear that the major portion of their digital signal that they use for CBS high definition is not part of the agreement. On the other hand, it still seems odd that TWC would not use the CW sub-channel as a bargaining chip to get the full digital signal. ......... Guess you have to have all the facts to figure these things out.

drbonbi

08-02-06, 01:36 PM

There's an interesting article in Saturday's BDN on the issues surrounding the recent tussle between TWC and WABI over carriage. http://www.bangordailynews.com/news/templates/?a=138067

Dana

Stan54

08-02-06, 03:49 PM

Thanks. .............. I have a feeling that the underlying issue in all of this is carriage of the digital signal, which remains an unsettled matter. I hope they work it out in the next month.

drbonbi

08-03-06, 02:07 PM

The latest...

"WASHINGTON -(Dow Jones)- The Federal Communications Commission on Thursday ordered Time Warner Inc. (TWX)'s cable division to put the NFL Network back on systems it recently acquired from cable providers Comcast Corp. (CMCSA) and Adelphia Communications Corp.

...

"At the center of the debate is the network's desire to be included on the basic expanded tier - which gets the largest swath of customers. Time Warner Cable wants to put the network on its sports tier instead, which it offers as NBA-TV, Outdoor Channel and various Fox Sports channels for $5 a month.

"Federal regulators said it appeared that Time Warner discontinued the NFL Network with essentially no warning to customers, depriving them of a chance to find alternative providers ahead of the Aug. 11 start of the NFL's pre-season schedule."

The link is http://www.easybourse.com/Website/d...&NewsRubrique=2

Dana

drbonbi

08-04-06, 09:09 PM

Stan54

08-05-06, 11:41 AM

The latest on this topic, updated as of 4:30 PM Aug. 4...

"Aug. 4 (Bloomberg) -- Time Warner Cable, the U.S. second- largest cable-television operator, put the NFL Network back on some of its systems after the U.S. Federal Communications Commission ordered it to do so.

"The NFL Network was restored at midnight on recently acquired systems to comply with the FCC's order, Time Warner Cable spokesman Mark Harrad said in an e-mailed statement. Time Warner Cable is appealing the decision, he said..."

The link http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aAUjIkdu6z2E&refer=news

How about it in Maine? Is the NFL Network back on the Adelphia systems TWC acquired? Was both SD and HD affected? Let's hear from some viewers. What's happening?

Dana

Yes, it's back on HD here in Augusta. The 30 day period will be up, however, before they start showing any regular season games which is the only reason I would ever have to watch this channel.

It's like the Fox Sports New England HD channel. Only the Celtic home games are in HD. The rest of the time the channel merely occupies valuable bandwidth. This is what causes cable companies to do things that compromise the quality of their signals.

JOgden

08-15-06, 02:44 PM

Stan54

08-17-06, 06:52 PM

WABI provided this response to an E-Mail I sent just today. I will post it on both the Bangor and Portland threads.

Hi, Stan. I appreciate your taking the time and making the effort to
write to us directly with your concerns about digital signal
retransmission. I understand your interest in HD programming, and from a
personal point of view, I sympathize with your evident frustration over
the absence of CBS HD programming on your cable system.

Many digital cable viewers share the philosophy that HD cable carriage
would be to our advantage, and that non-carriage is to our detriment.
These viewers "champion the cause" of the cable companies, with the
viewpoint that they assist in our ratings performance and thus our
financial viability. While that is arguably true to some extent (very
small to literally non-existent at this point in the digital world), it is
also undeniably a fact that cable operators profits are tied to the
services they provide, and local stations are a big draw for subscribers.

We ended up having very good discussions with TWC at the conclusion of our
basic analog cable deal, and we've had good discussions with other
systems, too (some of which just aren't quite ready for the digital age).
We are hopeful that reasonable terms can be reached with TWC, at least,
with regard to HDTV, as we do respect the reach that their systems
provide. However, we feel that we deserve respect for the value of our
programming, as well (most of it is at least as good as any USA movie full
of six-minute commercial breaks)

You should know that it's unlikely that Sinclair or anyone else (us, for
instance) would enjoy significant ratings increases/ad dollars from
digital carriage at this time. Advertisers have pretty much indicated
that they see no additional value to this coverage currently, and it just
hasn't been worth the fight with the admittedly limited market. It's cool
that you've embraced the technology, Stan (as have many others, no doubt),
but the fact remains that "bread and butter" viewership comes over-the-air
and on basic tier services.

I hesitate to get into the compensation issue in this email, but I do feel
that you're looking at the situation from a biased perspective (no offense
intended). Frankly, if the cable company will pay USA, AMC, TNT, TBS and
the like for their services (in ANALOG!), they should be more than happy
to share a few pennies with broadcasters who have invested tens of
millions of dollars in HD conversion with no way to recover the costs so
far, and more costs in continued upgrades every year. It's like me buying
car , keeping it maintained and gassed up,and letting you drive it around
as a taxi service.

Hmm -- so much for my hesitation to get into the issue. I could be
worse, Stan, but I'll spare you my full opinion. Just know that
regardless of what I think (or what you think), in the end both entities
need each other. That's the beginning of making a FAIR deal. We hope to
BE seen by you, too -- if not in September, then some (wonderful) day.

Thanks for the input, and for putting up with mine. I'll share your
perspective with upper management.

Steve Hiltz
Program Director

Stan54

08-19-06, 11:31 AM

I want to share a follow-up from WABI on both the Bangor and Portland threads.

Hi, Stan.

I just wanted to acknowledge your follow up to my reply. I'm happy that
you will share that with other concerned viewers.

At the risk of engaging in a debate about this issue, I feel that you are
making unsupported presumptions about what will happen when the analog
signals go away. In fact, I doubt that basic cable subscribers will note
any difference at all , as systems will simply downconvert the digital
signals to them (as some are already doing in order to receive and deliver
a cleaner signal).

Digital HD is now and will be a premium service, for which subscribers pay
additional fees. No doubt ESPN, HBO, et al receive "a cut" for their HD
signals, and stations may or may not require the same. I would not
presume to speak for other stations, nor can I personally predict what
WABI-TV upper management /ownership will ultimately do. But if you
believe that Must Carry is a foregone conclusion, you are mistaken. We
don't have a single Must Carry agreement in force today (and this decision
is not always about money). Retransmission Consent allows both parties to
engage in other business relationships beyond the carriage issue, and both
sides have an interest in doing so. In most cases, both sides recognize
the MUTUAL benefits to the relationship, and desire specific terms not
necessarily related to simple carriage of the signal.

With regard to TNT and the others coming in "after routine carriage of
local stations" -- I submit that that is not at all a valid argument for
denying local stations compensation today. Cable systems have ALWAYS paid
for some services, from the outset. In this market, WSBK-TV comes to
mind. And, as you say, early agreements were predicated on business
conditions "of the time." Certainly all of these agreements have changed
many times over in the past few decades. New times. New deals. And there
is no newer time than this, the digital era.

It's also a major assumption to suggest that ALL local stations have
ALWAYS been carried without compensation on ALL systems. In fact, it's
simply not true. I'd be happy to lay down money on the fact that several
local stations have been paid for years in many markets (based on the
value that they bring to the particular cable line-up). and that larger
station groups ARE receiving payment (in some form, at least) as part of a
GROUP clearance of their owned stations, simply "throwing in" smaller
markets as part of the deal.

I can tell that I won't change your position on this issue, Stan (and you
can be sure that you won't change mine, either). However, I do sincerely
appreciate the opportunity to address your comments, and I respect your
opinion, despite disagreeing with it.

Steve H

Stan54

08-24-06, 12:58 PM

Hi, Stan.

I've addressed your additional questions below.

Steve H.

"Stan Sumner" <ssum9160@adelphia.net> writes:
>Am I correct in thinking that when the switch to digital takes place, the
>cable company may convert the station's digital signal to analog because
>they have not been granted the right by the station to display the actual
>digital signal?

Technically, that will depend on what each station wants, but since basic
tier subscription and analog TV sets will continue to dominate the
cable/satellite market in the short term, I anticipate that most stations
will not only allow downconversion, but will indeed make it part of the
deals -- and I expect most cable operators will want that option, as well.
Therefore, any station that elects Retransmission Consent the next time
around will probably deal with this factor one way or another. Of
course, one day the general population will fully embrace digital
technology (and the "switch" WILL drive that in many rural areas), but
with cable carriage established, and with satellite carriage in most
areas, too, the fact is that many consumers simply wont have to upgrade,
and probably won't -- until digital sets/converters really come down in
price.

>
>Adelphia / TWC has permission to carry and display the digital signals of
>WCSH and WMTW. The cable company advertises "enhanced locals." Is this
>because they are converting the digital signal to analog for display on
>the
>analog tier? It seems clear that is what you said, but I guess
>confirmation
>would be good thing.

I'm not sure about that one, Stan, but I'd guess that it is indeed true.
In any event, cable operators will definitely want that option when the
switch takes place, and I'd expect it to be brought up in negotiations (if
it hasn't already been established).
>
>
>My last question is one that is in a sensitive area considering current
>circumstances. Most of us have few clues as to what things are involved
>in
>the bargaining process between stations and cable companies. Payment for
>the signal is obvious, but the other things of value seem very vague and
>mysterious to someone on the outside. We know that a station cares about
>where it is placed in the cable tiers of service and the identifying
>channel
>number, however, are there really other matters that both sides place a
>value on? Can you provide just another item or two without getting into
>difficulty? Perhaps, a greater understanding of what is important to the
>stations and cable companies would make the delay in the arrival of your
>station on the HD dial easier to accept.

This IS a sensitive area, Stan. We do have "nondisclosure of terms"
language in many of our agreements, and I wouldn't want to do anything to
endanger the agreements (or to cost us money). So, I can't be specific
about existing agreements, but I'll try to generally address this (let's
see how I do).

First thing to understand -- When the station does choose RT Consent
(which they must do three months in advance of the relevant term), they
risk being removed from the system, as they have effectively surrendered
the rights granted by Must Carry. Larger cable systems are ready for this
in a big way, as they have extensive RT document templates just waiting to
be signed. And now, the power is literally in their hands. I really
can't tell you what they might ask for currently, as it's just too close
to what they actually have asked for (and received). I wish I could think
of something general, but it would sound invalid, and silly. It could be
anything, really -- and I can't even hint to the realities.

Here's a possibility-- hypothetically speaking (and a bit silly): If
during the 2000-2001 round of negotiations, a station chose RT Consent to
get money for the analog signal, they might find that cable company coming
back with -- "Forget it . . . oh, and by the way, we want to have your HD
signal when it comes up, too - Free. And we want two dozen lobsters
shipped to our corporate office . . . and a kite -- a RED kite. If you
don't give it to us, we'll drop your analog station, too. Thanks for not
choosing Must Carry." Then the showdown would begin.

However, digital carriage would be a good reason for a station to choose
RT Consent back then. Suppose that Station A knew that they would have
HD up and running sometime during the term, and they knew that Station B
would probably also be up with HD. If Station A chose Must Carry, they
would have nothing to say about HD during that term. They might,
therefore go with RT Consent, and introduce the concept of "favored
nations" treatment. That is, language that might say, for example,"We
know you don't HAVE to carry our HD signal when it comes up, and you don't
have to carry Station B's signal either, but if you DO pick up Station B
in HD, we want the same carriage." Again -- they couldn't even bring it
up if they chose MC. And, of course, the cable operators could not
counter with their terms for digital carriage (including downconversion).
Both parties value the digital carriage (or would value it soon enough),
so RT Consent would be the best way for them to go (though , initially,
that would be up to the station).

Large cable systems are always prepared with their RT demands (full legal
documents just waiting to be sent out), and stations can either go RT to
get something they want (or specific protective language as in the example
above) and see what comes back, or go with MC and take the status quo
carriage. In our experience, RT has been the best way to work toward
mutually beneficial agreements. MC is /was primarily to protect small
local stations in large multi-station markets (independents, for example),
with no real clout (i.e.: Network hits shows). And it worked.

I don't think that this really addresses your CURRENT concerns, but it's
all I'm willing to talk about on this issue, Stan. The past is easier to
address than the present (and future).

Steve Hiltz
Program Director

WABI-TV5

Guild63

09-14-06, 11:44 AM

New member here. WVII is up and running with a much higher power HD broadcast, I'm picking up a strong 80% signal "out back" in Hampden, about 17 miles from the tower, using just a Zenith indoor antenna with a 10dB Radio Shack amplifier. Looks like they are just running 480i upconverted analog at the moment, although I have seen signs that they may be testing 1080i. I work nights so I don't get to see prime time, perhaps someone has seen evening broadcasts? Are they running a 1080i? They have Fox22 on subchannel 7.2, SD broadcast.

drbonbi

09-14-06, 12:16 PM

Hey Guild63!

Welcome to the avs forum and this thread! I hang out on the Portland thread but post here occasionally. Stan54 has more to contribute here - as you can see - since he's on the former Adelphia (now TWC) cable system in the Augusta area and can get some Bangor channels.

Anyway, it's all one state and it's good to know what's happening in the "Queen City." We appreciate the info!

Dana

Guild63

09-14-06, 12:37 PM

Thanks Dana, I've been tinkering with HDTV for a couple of years now since I got a 30" Samsung CRT 16x9 and a T351 a few years back. Ancient technology, I know, practically stone age at this point, but a heck of a picture nonetheless.

drbonbi

09-14-06, 12:54 PM

I have a Sony 34" XBR910 direct view HD 1080i CRT and love it. It's bulky but fits nicely in a corner. CRTs may be old technology but they are still hard to beat. :)

Dana

Nova828

09-14-06, 05:31 PM

drbonbi

09-14-06, 06:30 PM

I am in Bangor too and I happen to catch WVII digital when I was at Sears looking at thier HDTVs. I don't yet have HD, but I am thinking of getting one just as soon as I can get both FOX and ABC programs in HD. All I can say is wow...WVII HD looks and sounds like CRAP! I was there just after 8 when primetime started, and no way was that in HD. I found it funny that the channel label actualy says ABC HD! What a joke! The sound was too quiet and in mono and picture looked like a bad analog feed. 7.2 Fox 22 actually looked alot better. When I switched to WABI on 5.1, I was blown away at how good it looked. Even the channel 7 analog signal looks alot better than 7.1 digital.

I am gonna keep an eye on this thread and I hope someone will post when WVII goes HD. I am saving up some money for an HDTV...I am hoping to be able to watch Lost in HD by the time the second half of season 3 starts in February. I know I won't be able to see it in HD in time for the Oct 4th premiere though.

Nova,

My experience is that store TV feeds are not to be trusted. Usually, the TVs are hooked up to an internal source intended to make every TV look great. But, I recall - also in Sears - that a helpful sales person (!) showed me that when he switched to local analog cable, the HD sets looked pretty bad. The smaller sets less so.

That has been true at home, too. The high resolution of a high-def set tends to expose the lower quality of analog signals that you don't see on a conventional set. At least here. When I went shopping a couple of years ago, I did a lot of research beforehand - Consumer Reports, CNET, etc. - to include the capability of various sets to display analog signals. Of course I much prefer watching HD and standard digital channels, and there will be more of them to watch as time goes by.

Good for you to have some patience. You remain "poised on the cutting edge" .. until you buy one. ;)

Dana

Guild63

09-15-06, 12:40 PM

I was able to find a daytime ABC program that was broadcasting in HD (at least on a network level) so that I could make a comparison, the WVII signal is definitely HD, the HD program was far superior to the syndicated program which preceeded it, but they just aren't doing 1080i at this point, so on a widescreen TV you get a stretched image. If they aren't going to do a "real" HDTV at this point, WVII should consider pillar boxing as they do with their FOX 22 on 7.2. Of course, I can do this on my STB, and the picture looks quite good, but, again, not 1080i quality like you get with WLBZ and WABI, not to mention the AMAZING HD quality of the WMEB Hi Def channel. I have to agree with Nova, the audio is really bad on 7.1, too, the 7.2 Fox channel is a great deal better, but maybe this will come in time.

I am wondering if WVII is perhaps holding off on putting a full 1080i on the air until the start of the new season of "Lost" so they can make a bigger splash with that program. Anybody think this might be a possibility?

drbonbi

09-15-06, 01:35 PM

...

I am wondering if WVII is perhaps holding off on putting a full 1080i on the air until the start of the new season of "Lost" so they can make a bigger splash with that program. Anybody think this might be a possibility?

You might want to try contacting the chief engineer at the station - email addresses are often posted on the station web site - and ask him. We have some station engineers contributing on the Portland-Auburn thread. You might tell him about this Bangor thread but post his response in any event.

From what they have said in the past on the P-A thread, local stations are captive to whatever HD video signal they get from the network. They pass it through or not but can't alter it. Audio is a different story in that the local station has to have the DD 5.1 equipment to pass it through if it is received on the network feed. Currently, only WCSH/NBC in the Portland-Auburn DMA does not have such equipment and doesn't plan to get it for two to three years. So they convert DD 5.1 to stereo. :(

Dana

PS. According to this thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=422073 only MPBN/PBS-HD in Bangor is delivering DD 5.1 audio.

Guild63

09-15-06, 02:02 PM

No such information on their website, the only email listed is the news department.

So, if I understand you correctly, their ability or lack thereof to provide a 1080i signal is based on what they receive from the network? If they are getting a 1080i feed they cannot downconvert that to 480i? That would probably explain a few things.

drbonbi

09-15-06, 02:20 PM

Here's what Craig Clark, chief engineer at WGME/CBS said on the P-A thread recently:

"Checking in I see a question on syndicated programs in HD and local stations broadcasting them. Speaking for WGME this is where we are at. We pass CBS in HD using an A/B type switcher. The "A" side is the CBS HD feed the "B" side is local analog 4x3 material going into a "1080i up-converter that feeds our DT transmitter. We can go between the two sources at will but that is it. ... "

Up on the first page of this thread I see some email addresses for station contacts were posted and then later confirmed. I have no idea if they are still current.

Dana

DrJoe

09-15-06, 02:23 PM

"They pass it through or not but can't alter it" -- you have to be carefull how you say this, Dana -- I believe the following is true:

I have never seen a station "downconvert" a 1080i broadcast to 4:3 by cropping it or letterboxing it and then transmitting it at 480i or 480p. My guess is that this would take equipment beyond wat the average "beginner" station has.

If they ARE broadcasting at 1080i, then they DO "convert" 480i material on a regular basis. Syndicated shows, the local news, the regional non-HD college football game, etc -- that is anything that doesn't come down the 1080i pipe off the satellite, is upconverted by the local station. When they upconvert it to 1080i, they have a number of choices -- the can add pillar boxes on the edge of the 4:3 picture, they can stretch the image to fill the 16:9 screen, they can slightly zoom the image to better fill the 16:9 screen.

Until they became HD-capable, one of the stations I used to watch back in Austin did a combination -- they slightly zoomed the image so that the top and the bottom were lost, and then stretched the image to fill the 16:9 screen. Another station added the pillarboxes.

But this "alteration" of the video only seems to work when upconverting -- like I said, I have never heard of anyone downconverting HD.

For what it is worth, Guild, often the 4:3 480i digital image is often much better than the analog image. This has more to do with the advantages of digital transmission than anything else. I have seen some analog NTSC video feeds that were BETTER than their digital counterparts, but it is rare.

Send an email to the news department and they will forward your question to the station engineer.

Joe

drbonbi

09-15-06, 02:28 PM

Thanks, Joe. I was in over my head. :)

Dana

Guild63

09-15-06, 02:46 PM

drbonbi

09-15-06, 03:23 PM

Thanks, Joe, that's why I joined this forum, to try and better understand digital broadcasting. As far as WVII is concerned, their full power broadcast is pretty new, and I don't think what I am receiving is the final "product". I do wish they would pillar box instead of stretching to fill the 16x9, but I can do that on my end. Is there a danger of burn-in when I do this?

Looks like Joe has left us for the moment. With a CRT direct view set, I have read that there is little burn-in problem if you don't leave a fixed image on the tube for long periods of time - stock ticker, etc. There's a discussion here http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ISSUES/what_sets_avail.html which says in part:

"How serious a problem is burn-in?

"Many CRT sets are nearly immune to burn-in, but you can’t know if yours is one of those. There is no website that tells which sets are prone to burn-in. But such information would not be a guarantee.

"Ultimately you must accept the fact that burn-in can happen to your set. You must watch for it and must not delay taking action if you see it. A very mild burn-in can be made to go away, but a more severe burn-in requires replacing the CRTs, probably a $2000 service call for a big TV.

"Network logos and scrolling 'ticker tapes' on news channels can cause burn-in. The black sidebars on 4:3 programs are a big threat if you watch mainly 4:3 programs. Some manufacturers will state that the warranty is void if the user watches with black bars more than 15% of the time. That would mean that you are allowed hundreds of hours of black bar viewing over the life of the product. But still you must watch for burn-in and act quickly if it shows up. Other manufacturers refuse to cover any burn-in in their warranties.

"(The author watches 4:3 programming with black bars about 40% of the time. His set shows no burn-in after 5 years of this.)

"One measure of the likeliness of burn-in is the screen size to CRT size ratio. That is, a 60-inch set that has 9-inch CRTs is less likely to burn-in than a same sized set with 7-inch CRTs. Direct view CRTs rarely suffer burn-in." (Emphasis mine.)

"Also note that black is less of a problem than white. It might take hundreds of hours watching 4:3 material for burn-in to occur. But a station logo containing some fully intense white can cause burn-in in less than ten hours."

Dana

PS. I should add that when I was a DirecTV customer for a couple of years, their STB allowed me to set the side bars at full black and I did so. As a SusCom/Comcast customer, their STB only allows dark gray. Anyway, I turn the set off when I'm not watching it. No problems with my Sony direct view 34" CRT set.

DrJoe

09-15-06, 05:14 PM

Like Dana says, it shouldn't be much of a problem. Most people don't exclusively watch 4:3 material with "black box" on the sides. Your tuner may be able to add gray bars for you.

As Dana points out, the problem is really bright whites, not blacks. The phosphors light up when they are hit by high energy electrons. As they are excited to produce light, they age, and as they age they lose efficiency, becoming less bright. If you were to watch standard video in the center of your screen for many many years, it would "age" the phosphor in the center more than on the edge. You are actually "burning in" the 4:3 video area NOT "burning in" the black bars!

You'd have to turn up the brightness and contrast to get the same picture you did years ago, and when you did that the phosphor on the edges of the screen would look brighter in comparison. This is why many sets add gray bars to the sides of the sets. They age the phosphors on the edge at approximately the same rate as video does in the 4:3 window.

One thing you should make sure to do is get a video calibration disk. If your set is in "torch mode" (i.e. out-of-the-box, brightness and contrast near maximum), you CAN cause burn-in to occur in a very short time. Use Avia or Video Essentials to properly set the contrast and brightness to be safe.

By the way, I do not believe that WVII is at full power (unless they haven't told the FCC -- the FCC shows them broadcvasting under a special temporary authority at 1.845 kW ERP. Their full power rating is 79kW ERP. You'd have to confirm this with the station engineer.

Joe

drbonbi

09-15-06, 10:12 PM

Hello all,

Andrew Neff of the Bangor Daily News says in his column today "Barring a two-minute drill that would impress even Tom Brady, former Adelphia ... cable television subscribers will be tackled for a loss this weekend..." :(

More here http://bangordailynews.com/news/t/sports.aspx?articleid=140498&zoneid=147

Dana

Guild63

09-17-06, 01:43 AM

By the way, I do not believe that WVII is at full power (unless they haven't told the FCC -- the FCC shows them broadcvasting under a special temporary authority at 1.845 kW ERP. Their full power rating is 79kW ERP. You'd have to confirm this with the station engineer.

Joe

Some less outdated information for you. Item #3. 79kW. Granted last June.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=WVII

Looks like the FCC already knows.

DrJoe

09-18-06, 11:03 PM

My info is not outdated, I was at the same page you were on.

Read it again. I guess you didn't read the whole page.

79kW ERP is their full rated power. They have a special temporary authority (STA) to be at 1.845 kW ERP. As I understand it, the STA drops off the search page when it goes away.

Check with the station and see.

Joe

Guild63

09-19-06, 12:47 AM

I am not going to continue this ridiculous game of one-upmanship with you, sir, nor am I going to bother the station personnel. If you can give me a rational explanation of how I went from a flickering 20% signal to a solid and sustained 80% signal literally overnight without a power increase I will certainly give it my full attention. I merely made my original post to inform others in this market that they could now receive the WVII digital broadcasts, not to get into an argument with someone who is 100 miles away from being able to observe what is going on in this market with their own two eyes. I really don't care if they are broadcasting at 1.84kW or 184,000, my post was directed at persons in this market who were interested in OTA digital broadcasts of WVII.

drbonbi

09-19-06, 10:28 AM

Guild63,

I am disappointed in your remarks addressed to DrJoe. He is a valued contributor to the Portland thread and elsewhere . The Chief Engineer of WGME/CBS has said "Joe, your comments, tips, and suggestions throughout the AVS forum I have found to be accurate and helpful." (Post 760 dated 1-26-06.) Those who contribute on that thread don't always agree but we maintain a high degree of civility and respect.

I see no reason why it should be any different on the Bangor thread.

Dana

jkurlanski

09-19-06, 11:40 AM

Here here...

There's no one-up-manship going on. The history of this forum might help. There's always been a lot of rumours, hear-say, and opinions stated as facts. This show is going HD, that station is going to be available on this cable company..etc, etc, etc. That's been curtailed somewhat over the years by providing documentation available to back claims, and also pointing out when some documentation is flawed. Its just the way it has to work here with some much garbage being disseminated as fact on the net. Thats part of the reason this forum has been so successful.
To recap, no one here is saying that WVII isn't at full power, just that the documentation you provided shows they are still operating under the STA. If that's changed, great. There are other explanations for recieving a station better than your were (antennas move, or something so stupid as a building being torn down) so the next logical step before proclaiming a station is at full power (finally!) is to contact the station.
(Oddly enough, I used to think it was "bothering" them too, but I've found most to be very helpful, even thankful, that someone out there is enjoying all their hard work! Some even choose to participate in the thread which is always helpful.)
I hope that's helpful. I'm not trying to enflame the situation. Just provide a little perspective as to why those of us 100 miles away would care.

Guild63

09-19-06, 12:03 PM

Stan54

09-19-06, 01:25 PM

DrJoe

09-21-06, 09:55 PM

My last post. Again, I only came to this forum to inform viewers in the Bangor market that WVII was now putting out an observable signal, as several people had remarked in the past that they were having difficulty receiving it. I was drawn into a discussion far beyond my original intent. You guys take care now.

Guild, I certainly didn't mean to start a fight. Sometimes what people think they say and what other people think they hear are two different things. I'm a bit obsessive compulsive when it comes to information -- most people with advanced degrees in science and engineering are, that's how we stuck to it enough to get some degrees.

I didn't hear you say "their signal is better", I heard you say "they are now broadcasting at full power". They might very well be doing so, but the best place to check is at the station. The FCC doesn't seem to think so. I have found that the station engineers are eager to share information about their stations to enthusiasts like us. Drop the station engineer an email and let us know what he says.

Take care,

Joe

lilcasino

11-21-06, 12:51 PM

It has been awhile with no action. Any update on WVII?

Nova828

11-21-06, 04:04 PM

No change for WVII last time I was able to check about 2 weeks ago. They are still broadcasting SD widescreen even though the channel label says "WVII-HD". I have been told that they have been caught broadcasting in HD for short periods during "The View", but it would appear that they are only testing it. It goes right back to SD after the next commercial break. The sound is even in mono. Fox 22 SD is broadcasting on 7-2, also in mono. I sure am gonna miss the distant networks when they go away on December 1st. They are not HD, but at least the picture is better, sound in stereo, and they don't cover network shows with local commercials when the master control operator falls asleep during the local avail.

Davinleeds

12-05-06, 08:51 PM

Doesn't anyone see some Dishin? Bangor locals? News about CW???????

Stan54

12-06-06, 11:28 AM

Doesn't anyone see some Dishin? Bangor locals? News about CW???????

Yes, there must be someone on this thread that has some news. Of course, the best news would be that WABI digital has approved use of its signal by Time Warner Cable.

Nova828

12-06-06, 04:47 PM

I have the Bangor local channels on Dish Network. They look as good as you'd expect from Bangor, Maine TV stations, which isn't very. WLBZ and WABI and WMEB look and sound OK. WVII looks stretched, almost like when you have a 4:3 picture on a 16:9 TV, only on a 4:3 TV. It looks like everyone on screen put on about 50 pounds! WFVX Fox is terrible. The picture has bits of snow in it and it's barley in color. The sound is muted and in mono. It looks like the picture you'd get if you put up a pair of rabbit ears. I'm not gonna like it when 24 starts up. The New York Fox feed was so much better. As far as the CW is concerned, just order WPIX out of New York in the superstations package. It's only $1.50 extra, and has pretty much the exact same programming as the CW feed operated by WABI.

lilcasino

12-13-06, 11:22 AM

can anyone tell me how the hd content is on time warner is?

Nova828

12-13-06, 04:04 PM

WVII may soon be in HD. I sent an e-mail to the operations manager to ask them about HD and the bad picture quality of WFVX Fox 22 on Dish Network. Anyone seen any HD programs on WVII? I don't yet have HDTV, but plan on investing in one just as soon as I can get ABC programs in HD. Here is the reply I got:

Tony:

We have been working with Dish Network to get them to change the WFVX feed
from the channel 22 analog signal to the 7.2 digital feed, this will clear
up the problem. Dish engineering is awaiting the approval from their
programming department so they can make the change.

We have already started passing some ABC-HD programming through. The last
remaining issues with our HD switching gear are just about cleared up, so
very soon we will be transmitting all ABC-HD programs in HD.

George Thomas
Operations Manager

lilcasino

12-14-06, 08:30 AM

adrenochrome

12-17-06, 02:13 PM

WABI seems to have forgotten to "flip the switch" for HD football this afternoon. I've sent an email, and have tried calling, but only get voicemail at the news desk and the sports desk.

Last weekend WLBZ went from 10% signal to 80% signal for me for a few hours -- I didn't change anything on my end... They may be getting ready to go to full power? It was breaking up a couple times a minute, but at least I could lock a signal.

Nova828

12-17-06, 03:57 PM

Games in SD for Week 15:

* Jacksonville at Tennessee 1 PM CBS (Gus Johnson, Steve Tasker)
* Cleveland at Baltimore 1 PM CBS (Ian Eagle, Soloman Wilcots)
* Houston at New England 1 PM CBS (Kevin Harlan, Rich Gannon)
* Miami at Buffalo 4:05 PM (Don Criqui, Steve Beuerlein)

All times are Eastern.

Not on WABI's end. Nobody got the Pats game in HD since it was not produced that way.

adrenochrome

12-17-06, 06:13 PM

Not on WABI's end. Nobody got the Pats game in HD since it was not produced that way.

Whups.

scole58

12-19-06, 10:58 AM

I recently purchased a Samsung DTB H260F HD receiver. I live in on the east side of Bangor, a few blocks from EMMC. I am very happy with the reception I get, I am receiving 2-1, 2-2, 5-1, 5-2, 7-1 and 7-2. The football games all come in awesome, especially when broadcast in HD, even when programming is not broadcast in HD my reception far exceeds what I was getting on my HD monitor using its built in SD receiver.
My question is why can't I receive MPBN's signal? I believe it is broadcast on 9-1 and 9-2, right? And, it is transmitted from the same location as WABI's signal, which comes in great. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

JOgden

12-21-06, 10:37 AM

gwlbe

12-22-06, 08:13 AM

scole58:

You need a different antennae, PBS is on 9, thus VHF, the others are on UHF.

Davinleeds

12-24-06, 03:14 PM

CW 5-2 looks better. Watching Miracle on 34th Street. Still 480i but better. Usually very pasty for me. Anyone else?

Moad

12-25-06, 01:28 PM

Hello I just got a HDTV. I live in Saint Albans, Maine. I can get 5-1(CBS), 5-2(CW), 7-1(ABC), 7-2(FOX), 12-1(MPBN), 12-2(PBSHD), 25-1(NBC), 25-2(NBCWEATHER). I use to get analog channels 23(FOX), 33(I NETWORK), and 36(TBN). I was wondering if 33 would go digital? I've read on wiki that 36 (Trinity Broadcast Network) was going digital. I Do Not Care about 23 and 36, since I have 7-2 and I do not watch 36.

Nova828

12-29-06, 02:44 AM

I looks like WVII has finally gone HD. The last few nights they have aired prime time shows in HD and Good Morning America is coming through in HD as well. One thing I noticed is that Dish Network appears to be using the HD feed of WVII on their lineup. Of course it is downrezzed to 480i and zoomed in. I can tell because there is no ABC "bug" on Dish Network's feed of WVII during HD programs.

jdw1981

12-29-06, 12:24 PM

TWC in Bangor looks to have added A&E HD to their lineup. So far, there's nothing special about it, upconverted, pillarboxed programming broadcast @720P. Does anyone know what other HD programming they'll have besides the Sopranos?

aaronjb_ME

12-29-06, 11:00 PM

Does anyone know if TimeWarner has any intentions of broadcasting WABI or WVII in HD? Or is my only recourse to purchase an HD antenna?

Nova828

12-29-06, 11:38 PM

aaronjb_ME

01-01-07, 12:08 PM

Not likely to ever happen anytime soon. There is a chance that WVII might show up since they just now went HD. But if WABI HD was ever gonna be on cable, they would be by now. They want more money, or Time Warner wants more money to carry them. One or the other or both. Who knows. Get a decent antenna.

I suppose that's my only option at this point. Cable pricing and carriage seems to be all politics, and the consumer always loses.

Maine Jeff

01-01-07, 11:44 PM

Hi folks. Jeff, in Hampden, here. I will be purchasing my first HDTV this week and have subscribed to DishHD Silver package (currently 27" SD CRT TWC, but my wife was kind enough to fry the TV just as I was longing for a new set). I ordered the locals from Dish, but I am now reconsidering. The question is, how many antennas am I going to need to get the local HD channels? AntennaWeb shows 3 different colors and three different directions.It appears to me that I will need a minimum of 5 antennae!!!! Plus a Dish, oy! That's some serious hardware on my roof. People are gonna wonder what I'm doing in my basement. This isn't Cutler Naval. Jericho, anyone? I hope I have this all wrong. If not, I'll just take the Dish SD locals.

Nova828

01-02-07, 12:43 AM

You won't need 5 antenna's on the roof don't worry. At worst you might need a directional antenna with a rotator. Of course I can't say for certain what will work since I don't know what the terrain is like where you are, but I would think that you should be fine with just one omni-directional on the roof. In fact, looking at the antennaweb site for Hampden, you are in "Yellow" for all five major networks in digital over the air. Fox is on 7-2 and CW is on 5-2. That means you may even pick them up fine with a directional amplified indoor antenna. Just keep the receipt if you buy one. You may have trouble getting PBS in HD since they come up in green, plus they broadcast on a VHF frequency instead of a UHF like all the others. Keep in mind you don't need to worry about the analog channels since you are going to be getting them VIA dish anyway.

Maine Jeff

01-02-07, 01:02 AM

Thanks, Nova. I am actually hoping to get my locals OTA and dispense with the $5/mo. fee that Dish gets for locals. All the better if I can get them in HD. I believe that I am in a fairly unobstructed area.

Nova828

01-02-07, 02:47 AM

I am in Bangor and using This antenna (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7322587&st=Antenna&type=product&id=1118844608800)

And I can pick up WLBZ-HD and WVII-HD just fine. WABI-HD is tough to pull in, I sometimes can get it if I point the antenna in the EXACT right direction and don't get up and move around. But I think WABI's tower is in Hampden, or at least closer to you than it is to me, so you will probably have better luck with them. YMMY of course, so keep the receipt so you can return it if it doesn't work. Just remember when indoor antenna shopping: Amplified and Directional. Nothing else will work on digital signals unless the tower is right next door to you.

lilcasino

01-02-07, 07:45 AM

Maine Jeff

01-02-07, 10:17 AM

Nova,

Can I get some kind of power rotating base for this? I'd like to put this in my attic, and even if I don't, who wants to get up and rotate an antenna everytime "My Name is Earl" comes on. I mean, really, that's SOOO 1977. The towers are within 10 miles of me, but in almost exactly opposite directions. Now all you stalkers and profilers can do some triangulation.

Poundstone

01-03-07, 05:13 AM

Maine Jeff,

I also live in Hampden and I can tell you that with an amplified Indoor HDTV antenna you'll be able to get WABI-HD, WVII-HD and WLBZ-HD no problem. You can forget about WFVX unless you want to go on your roof. I had Direct TV for about a week last year and I had to go back to cable after I couldn't get Fox OTA and they wouldn't grant me a waiver to receive the NY feed.

Nova828

01-03-07, 05:23 PM

Actually if you can get WVII-HD you can get WFVX. It's now on 7-2.

Maine Jeff

01-03-07, 05:39 PM

Nova,

Did you see my question about rotating antenna mounts?

Nova828

01-03-07, 06:06 PM

Oh yeah. I typed a response yesterday but when I submitted it I got the "Server is too busy" message and forgot to re-submit it. Yes you can get those, but I doubt you will need it. Here is one at Radio Shack:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2131034&cp=&origkw=HDTV+antenna&kw=hdtv+antenna&parentPage=search

Just yesterday I messed around with my indoor antenna on top of the TV and found a position that picks up every signal perfectly without any dropouts even when I get up and walk around the room! I'm only getting 70 percent on WABI and WVII and about 85 percent on WLBZ, but strong enough for digital and hopefully it will stay this way. So it you have patience you ought to be able to find the same deal.

Maine Jeff

01-03-07, 06:12 PM

I'm getting my TV tomorrow and I plan to wall mount it, which I don't think will allow me to place the antenna on the TV and be able to rotate it. I'm not sure I'd like it there anyway. It's the attic for me. I'll just play with it and have my wife tell me when I've got a good signal. Then I can decide if I need the rotating base. I am pretty close to the towers, so I may be OK.

Poundstone

01-09-07, 04:34 PM

Thanks for the heads up on Fox, Nova... I'll have to check that out if I go back to Dish.

BikeMaine

01-13-07, 07:25 AM

Davinleeds

01-13-07, 10:00 PM

I think LBZ is currently UHF for digital but will revert to 2 after feb 09. Check your antenna type. ABI is 19, CW 19-2, PBS 9, VII 14?, LBZ 24?. Check antennaweb.org for your listing. VHF = lbz 2, abi 5, VII 7, PBS? Eventually you'll need an appropriate vhf/uhf combo.

Guild63

01-16-07, 02:35 PM

Hey guys,

I'm a complete beginner with HDTV, currently setting up my first system. I, too, live in Hampden and want use an antenna to pick up local HD content. I have an antenna in the attic that we used with our old analog set, which picked up the major networks (WABI, WLBZ, WVII, PBS)--of which WLBZ and WABI were our best signals; I hooked the antenna up to our new set and get strong signals for multiple PBS channels, the CW, and WABI, but nothing (not even an analog signal) for WLBZ.

So my question is: Do you think a newer antenna make a difference? Our attic antenna is a dinosaur that the previous owners of our house left behind--I have no idea how old (or how good) it is....

Hey Bike, I'm a Hampden guy, too, are you in town or "out back"? Offhand it sounds like you might need a rotater of some sort, the PBS channels and the WABI/CW combo both broadcast from a mountain in Dixmont, whereas WLBZ and WVII/Fox are pretty much in the opposite direction, at least from my location ("out back"). Sounds like you are pointed at the Dixmont site and away from the others. I suggest you put your address into antennweb.org and you can get a general idea of where you are in relation to the towers. Best bet is probably a rotater on your existing antenna or an indoor uhf antenna, possibly with a booster. There are a number of good indoor antennas, I use a Zenith with a Radio Shack booster and it works very well, even allowing me to pull in WVII/Fox from 17 miles away and from a location surrounded by trees.

BikeMaine

01-17-07, 07:39 AM

Guild63

01-17-07, 11:51 AM

Yeah, I'm "out back," close to Newburgh. After reading some of the other posts here, I decided to try out the antenna that Nova recommended (the indoor Terk deal), and now the other channels are coming in (whew!), though I only get analog signals for WVII and Fox. I seem to get a better-quality picture from primetime HD broadcasts on WABI and WLBZ (especially WABI) than I get from PBS-HD...any thoughts on that? I'm still in the "trying to find fault" phase with my TV....

Sounds like we're pretty close, I'm on Sawyer. WVII and Fox are pretty much just sending a digitized version of their analog signal, although WVII is passing some programming in HD, check out The View (I know, I know) and see if that is coming in in widescreen, it usually is. As far as PBS HD is concerned, it is actually on channel 9.2, which is in the VHF band, so it's possible your UHF only antenna isn't doing an effective job bringing it in. I actually have a rooftop antenna in addition to the indoor Zenith unit, and I switch over to that one when I want to watch WABI or PBS, as I have it aimed directly at that tower. You get such great reception from WABI (I get about a 90% signal) because it is coming from that big mutha tower that you can probably see if you look toward Dixmont, pretty close!

BikeMaine

01-20-07, 12:27 PM

Stan54

01-20-07, 02:13 PM

Thanks for the info, I messed around with my antenna for a bit and found WVII and Fox (the digital versions) which is spectacular--I haven't watched The Simpsons in a very long time. Interesting that, on my TV, NBC and CBS HD programs (CSI or The Office, for example) have a spectacular picture, but the PBS-HD programs have what seems like a a sort of drag with certain colors, say if people shake their heads quickly then the colors break up...I'm assuming it's the signal, since it doesn't appear to happen on the other channels. Any thoughts on that? Like I said, I'm new to the HDTV thing and I want to make sure my TV isn't flawed....

Your problem sounds a little like mine on cable. All of the HD channels are very good except that PBS tends to smear faces when people move their heads. Everything looks great until somebody turns his head then the facial features smooth and smear somewhat. Fine detail returns when movement stops. TWC is using the national feed, but I don't know if they get it by satellite or off the local PBS broadcasting antenna. In any event, the other channels don't seem to reflect the problem.

Guild63

01-20-07, 07:38 PM

Thanks for the info, I messed around with my antenna for a bit and found WVII and Fox (the digital versions) which is spectacular--I haven't watched The Simpsons in a very long time. Interesting that, on my TV, NBC and CBS HD programs (CSI or The Office, for example) have a spectacular picture, but the PBS-HD programs have what seems like a a sort of drag with certain colors, say if people shake their heads quickly then the colors break up...I'm assuming it's the signal, since it doesn't appear to happen on the other channels. Any thoughts on that? Like I said, I'm new to the HDTV thing and I want to make sure my TV isn't flawed....

Glad I was able to help a bit. It's doubtful its your TV, as I have the same problem with PBS, picture breaking up during scenes with a lot of fast motion. I've seen an explanation of it somewhere, but I'll defer to someone on the board with more expertise to explain what's going on. But it's most likely not your TV.

Davinleeds

01-20-07, 07:44 PM

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9531508#post9531508
Even in Illinois.

Stan54

01-20-07, 08:51 PM

I have not researched it, yet, but from memory, PBS sends multiple programs down the line which makes me wonder if they haven't absolutely out-max'd their their satellite equipment. The picture doesn't break up for me on TWC, but does have the facial smearing that I discussed earlier.

Stan54

01-20-07, 08:54 PM

Deleted by poster.

BikeMaine

01-21-07, 09:24 AM

Excellent, thanks again. Good to know my TV likely isn't causing the problem...I thought it probably wasn't, since DVDs look so spectacular, but I've read so much about potential problems with HDTV sets that every little blip has me worried--it's a lot to spend to not get exactly what you want or expect.

lilcasino

01-23-07, 02:31 PM

sent an email to WABI asking when they might allow HD signal on Time Warner, got this response

We thought we were close about a month ago, Lance, but they had "bigger
fish to fry" with WGME and Sinclair Broadcasting, so we were back-shelved
for awhile. Still talking with them this week, but I can't say for sure
how soon a deal might get done. Best I can say is that we are actively
pursuing a deal, and hope we can get something done.

Steve Hiltz
Program Director

aaronjb_ME

01-30-07, 12:10 PM

Thanks for the WABI update. Must be hell being a local station dealing with TW.

Nova828

02-07-07, 02:43 AM

It looks like WVII may finally be officially HD. I noticed "Boston Legal" was on in HD last night and I noticed them in HD last Thursday too. Here's hoping for "Lost" tonight to be HD, that would be excellent!

JOgden

02-07-07, 10:08 PM

For whatever reason I can no longer pickup WVII in HD right now. I live near the Bangor mall. Is anyone else having this issue? I really want to watch LOST in HD.

Nova828

02-08-07, 12:14 AM

I watched the whole show on WVII-HD, and they were in HD the whole time! Looked pretty good. I am over by EMMC and picked it up with 90 percent signal on an indoor antenna, so if you couldn't get it by the mall you might want to check out your equipment again. Maybe your antenna is pointed in the wrong direction or your tuner got reset and is no longer looking for WVII on digital channel 14? Try re-pointing your antenna and do a re-scan.

lilcasino

02-08-07, 07:02 AM

Nice to watch WVII last night in HD. Anyone else having issue with there guide/info data?

Guild63

02-08-07, 10:49 AM

Nice to watch WVII last night in HD. Anyone else having issue with there guide/info data?

There doesn't seem to be any, nor any on WLBZ or the PBS stations. WABI/CW appears to be the only channel putting any guide info out there. WLBZ has had it off and on, nothing currently.

desmoface

02-11-07, 04:18 PM

Hey gang, I hope someone here can help me. My Father In Law lives in Caribou, Me. and has just gotten his new sony hdtv....He's running the cable (Time Warner) directly into the tv's internal tuner..so no cable box or outdoor antenna.

He let the tv do it's auto channel search and he can't seem to find Fox, abc, or nbc in hd. I know in Ohio we have all those channels in hd without the cable company's tuner..just using the tv's internal tuner.

Does anyone know if these channels are there, in hd? I was under the impression that the cable companies had to provide these channels in hd at no charge? If anyone knows what the channels are, I would sure appreciate it. Here in Ohio, fox hd is on 83.2, but it's not the same in Maine, I guess.

As most of you know, the cable companies customer service line is just about useless..when I bought my tv, they told me that I wouldn't get any hd content without their cable box/card and buying digital cable..Of course, either they don't know what they are talking about, or they are just lying..I tend to think it's the former.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Steve

Nova828

02-11-07, 05:16 PM

Well, according to the Time Warner Website, here is the HDTV lineup carried by Time Warner in Aroostook County. The only network available in HD in that area is CBS. They also carry a digital SD feed of FOX programming. Since WAGM is the only TV station in the area, he is at their mercy for any network HDTV programming. Even putting up an antenna isn't gonna help him get NBC, ABC, or FOX programs in HD.

500 HBO East High Definition

508 WAGM HD (CBS)

510 MPBN

520 Showtime High Definition

530 INHD

532 HD Net

533 HDNET Movies

534 ESPN-HD

535 Universal HD

550 Discovery HD Theater

551 TNT HD

552 MHD

553 A & E HD

556 NESN HD

desmoface

02-11-07, 06:16 PM

Ahh...Thanks Nova..that must be the case..Too bad..he was floored when he visited us and got to watch nascar on the big screen in hd..I think that was one of the reasons he went out and bought the tv..

Fox has the best hd programming I've seen..especially nascar and sporting events...

Thanks again for the response.

Steve

Guild63

02-21-07, 01:06 PM

Following up on a previous post, as of today it appears that WVII/WFVX is now providing a program guide, good job, guys! Now if WLBZ could put theirs back up . . .

Maine Jeff

02-21-07, 10:00 PM

Where are these program guides? I have my locals OTA thru my dish receiver and it drives me batty that I can't see what's on.

Guild63

02-21-07, 11:53 PM

I use a Samsung T-351 OTA receiver, and there is a "guide" button on the remote, plus the guide can also be accessed through the onscreen menu. Perhaps your receiver offers similar features, may be marked EPG on the remote for Electronic Program Guide. You might try the "info" button on your remote, too. See what your owners' manual has to say.

Maine Jeff

02-22-07, 02:07 PM

I have the ViP622. The Channels show on the guide, but only show "Digital Service" with no program info. The Info button says"No Program Info available"

Guild63

03-01-07, 10:12 AM

Jeff, do you subscribe to the local channels through Dish Network? I found a reference on another board which indicated that guide information was not available for OTA on the 622 unless you were subscribed to local channels, and even then it was only available for the primary channel, and not the sub channels, so you would have guide info for WABI and WVII (WLBZ and PBS do not currently provide the guides), but not for WFVX (Fox) and The CW. I wouldn't recommend you subscribe to locals simply based on my say-so, as I am unfamiliar with the unit and am only reporting something I saw elsewhere, but this may be the answer to your question. Perhaps it would be a good idea for you to contact customer support and find out if this is the case, then you could decide if it is worthwhile for you to pay an extra $5 a month in order to receive something which you should by all rights be receiving for free.

JOgden

03-12-07, 07:52 PM

If any of you use Time Warner's DVR feature, what do you think of it? What do you think of the options / features? I am considering paying the extra $6 for it.

Thanks in advance.

BikeMaine

03-15-07, 01:07 PM

Hey all,
I'm currently stumped by some reception problems. I use an attic antenna for OTA reception; channels 7.1 and 7.2 have been going in and out for a few weeks (though analog reception on 7 and 22 is fine), enough to be really annoying--we could be watching a program on 7.1 (with a decent signal strength) and have the whole thing disappear for a few minutes, then have it come back for a few minutes, then back for a few minutes, etc. Then, last week, channels 2.1 and 2.2 disappeared--not even a blip--though 2 (analog) still comes in (and, as a side note, so do 33 & 36). Other channels (5.1, 5.2, 12.1, 12.2) are fine. I've fiddled with the antenna position, even tried a signal booster because it's a long cable run from the attic to the TV, but nothing helps. I'm not sure what to try next. Any ideas?

Nova828

03-15-07, 04:32 PM

I've noticed the same, so it's not you. The channels will sometimes go completely black, even though the signal strength is still in the 90s. Channel 7.1 and 7.2 especially. Last Wednesday they went out right after Lost (dodged a bullet there) So I am now recording a back-up copy on my Dish DVR off a different ABC affiliate just in case. Channel 2 seems to behave better, I've only seen a few glitches that last a minute or two so far.

BikeMaine

03-15-07, 04:41 PM

What troubles me most is that it's all a fairly recent development--I had no problems at all until a week or two ago (with 7.1 and 7.2), and then earlier this week with 2.1 and 2.2. And 2.1 and 2.2 have yet to return at all, though 7.1 and 7.2 are in and out.

JOgden

03-16-07, 07:12 AM

Strange, I thought it was my antenna, as I live right in Bangor and 7.1 now does not come in at all but all other HD channels do.

Is there a reason why OTA HD channels look better the Time Warner's HD channels (HDNet)? Is it because I'm using coax from the DVR box to the TV? If so, my antenna use coax to the TV.

BikeMaine

03-16-07, 02:54 PM

Another interesting thing I just checked: On 2.1/2.2, I get a really strong signal, but no picture or sound. ?

As for why OTA might look better than cable, I seem to remember reading that some cable signals are compressed before transmission, which could affect the overall picture. Not sure how accurate that is (and I apologize if I'm spreading misinformation), but it sounds like a possibility.

Guild63

04-06-07, 01:06 PM

Good news for those who can receive them, looks like all of the Bangor OTA's are finally transmitting a program guide. This is especially good news for the MPBN-HD channel, as it was so hard to find program info for that one, short of going online. Also, anybody besides me notice how astonishingly good WVII's signal is? Could be the 720P as opposed to everyone else's 1080i perhaps?

lilcasino

04-11-07, 04:59 PM

does anyone know what Time Warner uses for HD-DVR?

jnix17

04-15-07, 07:22 AM

Stan54

04-15-07, 09:12 AM

I don't know if they have multiple options but ours is a Motorola DCT 6400. Had it for two months with no problem .... On a different issue, does anyone know why the NFL Network is showing up in the TWC website programming listing at channel 777? The receiver guide (and program content) at 777 is still Universal HD ... curious. Thanks.

777 was formerly used for the NFL Network which has since departed. I was glad to see it go because it was a channel that offered only a few hours per year of live games while tieing up precious bandwidth 24/365.

jnix17

04-18-07, 10:52 AM

Thanks for the info re: 777; I wondered if it was a "leftover" ....

lilcasino

05-31-07, 03:21 PM

anyone with time warner know what channels can be received with a qam tuner?

drbonbi

06-02-07, 04:23 PM

anyone with time warner know what channels can be received with a qam tuner?

According to AccidenT on the Portland thread here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10689880#post10689880

... From what I've read in this thread, not even the local HD channels are being passed in uncrypted QAM (even though they're supposed to be).

Dana

drbonbi

06-03-07, 07:44 AM

Another report just posted on the Portland thread about TWC QAM channels.

... There are no 'free' HD channels on Time Warner Cable if you have a panel with a built in QAM tuner. Upon ordering my Sony V2500 to scan for all digitals with just the basic coax cable going into the tuner, all it found were 5 channels- 4 were music channels without a picture and the 5th was PBS but non-HD.

Dana

lilcasino

06-03-07, 09:29 AM

thanks for the update...I get cable installed on wed. I will reply back then on what I'm able to get.

lilcasino

06-07-07, 07:12 AM

had cable installed yesterday, with my QAM tuner i was able to pick up pbs-hd and wlbz-hd. Also was able to pick up a bunch of digital music stations and 2 digital channels.

Nova828

06-07-07, 05:32 PM

drbonbi

06-07-07, 05:45 PM

That's good to know, thanks for posting that. Did you also get the HD box? If so, is WABI-HD or WVII-HD available on it? How much is your total cost per month, including taxes and fees? I'm trying to decide if a switch to cable is worth it, since my landlord is starting to give me grief about my dish.

Your landlord may not have jurisdiction - and may not know it. You might want to look over the FCC Information Sheet on placement of dishes, antennas, etc. http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

Dana

Nova828

06-07-07, 05:53 PM

That doesn't apply to me since my dish is currently on the back of the building (the only place trees won't get in the way) and there is a vacant apartment there that the landlord wants to renovate and rent. He is afraid that the dish would be an "eyesore" to potential renters.

lilcasino

06-08-07, 07:12 AM

I have their hddvr, but no wabi-hd or wvii-hd yet. They did tell me that they hope to have those added plus a couple more hd channels added this summer.

I have no idea on pricing yet, will let you know once i get a bill.

lilcasino

06-12-07, 02:15 PM

I received this email last week

Thank you for your email. Unfortunately, I do not have a definite time for additional HD coverage. It is dependant on completion of several upgrades to the former Adelphia lines and equipment, which are currently underway. We so think that we will have these completed during the summer, and we are working to finish as soon as possible. I actually hope to have expanded HD availability by the end of July, but I cannot give a definite on that, to be honest. Thank you for taking the time to contact us regarding HD programming. Please let us know if we may be of assistance in the future.

jnix17

06-16-07, 09:11 AM

Anyone have any news or information re: timeframes/availability TWC and WABI-HD, Fox in HD, ABC in HD, NFL Network? Thanks.

aaronjb_ME

06-21-07, 05:59 PM

Anyone have any news or information re: timeframes/availability TWC and WABI-HD, Fox in HD, ABC in HD, NFL Network? Thanks.

From reading the old posts in this thread, the likelihood of WABI-HD appearing in TW's lineup is slim. Companies bicker, and the consumer loses. You can probably forget seeing NFL-HD in the lineup, ever, given the tone of their previous negotiations.

Not having ABC and CBS in HD is a bummer, though.

lilcasino

06-22-07, 09:35 AM

anyone have the program director's email address for wvii?

drbonbi

06-22-07, 09:39 AM

anyone have the program director's email address for wvii?

When in doubt, always check the first post. ;)

Dana

lilcasino

06-22-07, 09:56 AM

When in doubt, always check the first post. ;)

Dana

actually I did, it bounced back to me.

drbonbi

06-22-07, 10:14 AM

When in doubt, always check the first post. ;)

Dana

This was not a good idea and I apologize. Some thread originators maintain the first post as a reference. But, that is not the case here and any info posted in March of 2003 is not likely to be reliable in 2007. :o

Dana

lilcasino

06-22-07, 10:44 AM

I did some digging and found this.

mpalmer@wvii.com
Michael Palmer
Vice President and General Manager

sent an email and got a very quick reply

I am waiting on them, we have agreed in principle, but they are slow in
actually executing the contract

Short answer - I'm not the hold up

drbonbi

06-22-07, 10:52 AM

lilcasino

08-27-07, 02:32 PM

just wanted to see how everyone is doing

Stan54

08-29-07, 12:35 PM

From Augusta:
What's the status of HD in the Bangor area? Has channel 7 come on with full power from the big tower, yet? Is channel 5 ready to sign a cable agreement, yet? What's the scoop with channel 2 and the smaller stations?

aaronjb_ME

08-30-07, 06:27 PM

Any news on the Channel 5 agreement?

JOgden

08-31-07, 12:50 PM

Does anyone in the Bangor area know if or when FOX HD is coming to TWC?

lilcasino

09-01-07, 10:00 AM

as of last night and still this morning, WVII (abc) and WFVX (fox) was in HD on channel 704 and 708.

Stan54

09-01-07, 10:07 AM

Bangor cable subscribers have sure had to wait a long time for ABC and FOX.

Maineah

09-01-07, 12:09 PM

Very glad to see more local HD channels on TWC. I do have a story to tell about TWC customer service.

On Monday this past week I sent an e-mail to the GM at WABI and CW to ask when they might be in HD on TWC. He indicated that he just last week requested a meeting with TWC point person in Maine regarding addition of his channels to TWC. The WABI GM indicated that the TWC person was very receptive to meeting and he expects to sit down with them this coming week. So a slim chance exsists that we may soon see WABI on the hd side of TWC.

Also on Monday I called and left a voice message with the WVII and Fox GM about when they might be on the HD side of TWC. He return my call very quickly and said that they had just agreed but he hadn't seen a formal contract. So on Wednesday I called a TWC CSR to add digital phone service and while we were talking I asked when they might add more local or national HD channels. The CSR told me that he didn't know but he did believe that TWC had come to agreement with Animal Planet and Fodd network HD feeds. I told the CSR about my conversation with the WVII GM and the agreement that was reached. The CSR didn't know a damn thing about it and further more he didn't even know that TWC only offer one Bangor local HD channel.

My faith in TWC is fading by the day. If DISHNET offered the local in HD I would even think twice about changing.

Oh and one more thing, does anyone have a problem with the picture quality of the analogs channels on the TWC 6400 DVR?

Cravin' HD

09-04-07, 04:12 PM

I get my locals with an OTA. Will Fox HD be available OTA as well? I was home at lunch and checked, there was an SD broadcast on, but I think my receiver showed that the broadcast was in 480i anyway. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Xhorder

09-07-07, 06:10 PM

Does anyone know whether TW will stick with Motorola STBs in Bangor?, or will they eventually switch to Scientific Atlanta, like southern Maine?

I would guess not, since I believe that would require a headend change...

So I guess the real question is, will we ever get a STB that doesn't suck? :)

davidrose9

09-16-07, 08:20 PM

Fox WFVX is on my friends Time Warner this week is in HDTV but I have Dish, here is the thing, HD channels are listed as 07-01 HD WVII digital OTA HD, 07-02 WFVX is digital now but not OTA, but is HD on Time Warner cable in Bangor over the air should be coming soon anyone know the deal?
Please let us know. NEED FOX HDTV.....PLEASE

Maineah

09-17-07, 09:42 AM

WFVXD-FOX and WVIID-ABC is on Time Warner Cable, it's been on for about 2 weeks. WABID-CBS is currently negotiating a carriage agreement with Time Warner. Hoefully they will come to agreement soon as CSI MIami and CSI New York will be starting the new season next week and I want it in HD. Also would love to see all CBS football games in HD.

davidrose9

09-17-07, 10:10 AM

Dishnetwork doesn't offer locals in HD if you want locals in HD you have to have an antenna that is the only way to get HD all stations but FOX are HD with OTA it seems backward WABI 5 has been digital for some time now all you need is an antenna and you will get it in HD maybe a digital tuner if your HDTV set does not have one built in.

I was wondering if anyone heard anything about OTA FOX WVII (same company) has OTA for a few months now so I am sure they are going to. FOOTBALL NFC fan I sure hope soon, since they released the signal on Time Warner. 24 season in HD wow FOX is a good station and will add a lot.

lilcasino

09-17-07, 11:43 AM

Is WVII able to put WVII and WFVX HD on 1 OTA channel?

davidrose9

09-17-07, 02:57 PM

Is WVII able to put WVII and WFVX HD on 1 OTA channel?

WVII 007-01 WFVX 007-02 those are the digital channels also analog is WVII 007 and WFVX 0022 so they have a digital feed just are not brodcasting there FOX station in HD OTA yet.:rolleyes:

davidrose9

09-17-07, 06:24 PM

ANSWERS ANSWERS

>Fox is the BEST thanks so much for the service.

Glad to know you are enjoying it!

>Time Warner Cable now has HD FOX feed from you

We are feeding WVII/ABC7 and WFVX/Fox22 program streams to Time Warner in HDvia a fiber link from our studio.

>wondering if OTA HD like WVII will be coming and if so will we see it soon

There is at this point no indication from our parent corporation as to theintroduction of an OTA HD feed for WFVX/Fox22. That isn't necessarily to saythat it won't happen, or for that matter that it might not already be in theplanning stages, just that we at the local level haven't been informed ofany such plans. Things *could* change at any time. For the present we will continue to feed WVII as HD on our digital channel7.1 and WFVX in SD on 7.2, in addition to the WVII analog signal on channel7 and the WFVX analog signal on channel 22. DISH Network has so far not indicated to us any plan for carrying Bangorlocals in HD, and have only been carrying locals at all since Nov. 30, 2006(despite being granted the right to do so in late 1999). DirecTV has installed equipment to gather the local signals here atWVII/WFVX (DISH Network's stuff is at WLBZ), and has *very* tentativelytalked about the end of November as the earliest possible "go-live' date forbeginning Bangor local service. Again, this is SD service only, with notimeframe for HD service being spoken of.

>http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11641439&posted=1#post11641439

>This forum is discussing your station answers if possible would be greatlyappreciated.

Interesting forum; nice to see that there is serious interest out there!
Mike StaplesMaintenance Engineer / System Administrator
WVII-TV WFVX-LP371
Target Industrial Circle
Bangor Me 04401
Tel: 207-945-6457 ext 3128Fax: 207-942-1967:)

Davinleeds

09-17-07, 07:52 PM

Same policy here for Fox 23. No HD OTA. Unfortunately HD is not legislated, digital is.

davidrose9

09-18-07, 10:10 AM

Same policy here for Fox 23. No HD OTA. Unfortunately HD is not legislated, digital is.

You hit the nail. That’s it exactly; HD isn’t legislated so that explains the digital feed without HD OTA.

davidrose9

09-21-07, 07:27 PM

In response to my post Mike Staples of Fox Bangor has emailed This:

It should be noted that WFVX / FOX22 is a Class A (low power) TV station, and as such has not had a digital channel assigned to it by the FCC. In fact, the entire issue of digital transition for LPTV and Class A TV stations has yet to be addressed by the Commission at all, and until that body decides what it will do about DTV channel assignments for LPTV and CA licensees, those stations have no way to provide a digital signal of their own, whether HD or SD.

WFVX / Fox22 is only on the air digitally because we can offer it in SD as an ancillary program stream on our WVII-DT channel. We can't offer it in HD without taking bandwidth away from the WVII 7.1 HD program stream, which would cause a significant degradation of quality. Obviously, that's not a good approach.

Let me stress that I cannot and do not speak for or about Fox 23, as I have no connection with that station and no information about their situation, so I am not suggesting that anything I have said about WFVX / Fox22 pertains to that station in any way, shape or manner.

You can see, then, that for WFVX / Fox22 it isn't a question of whether or not HD is a legislated requirement, but rather is a question of when the FCC will make the necessary channel assignment decisions affecting LPTV and CA stations. Until they do we can make no plans.

One situation where what is legislated *does* negatively impact what is available to the viewer is satellite local-into-local service.

Congress legislated appropriate changes to copyright law in 1999 to *permit* satellite signal providers to offer local-into-local service, but didn't mandate such service, nor did it mandate digital service at all, let alone HD. The action was strongly supported by legislators who represented rural areas, knowing as they did how many of their constituents needed better reception of local news and information. Unfortunately, giving permission to provide such service without either mandating it or specifying rural areas as a priority had about the same effect as giving a teenager permission to clean up their bedroom, but not making it mandatory.

What happened was the initial introduction of local service in New York City, quickly followed by Los Angeles and then working their way slowly down to chain to the smaller TV markets. So here we are in 2007, with only analog local service available from DISH and still waiting for analog local service from DirecTV and no clue as to when HD locals can be expected. The HD local services are being provided in the same top-down progression as as the analog service.

I hope this helps make the issue more understandable.

Mike Staples
Maintenance Engineer / System Administrator
WVII-TV WFVX-LP

DrJoe

09-24-07, 10:52 AM

A clarification on WPFO Fox 23:

Fox 23 was not in existance when extra channel assignments were made to provide for dual analog/digital transmission of existing stations. After the channel assignments were made, the FCC specified that new television stations woulkd be assigned only one channel for broadcasting their signal, and that they could choose to broadcast in analog or digital formats.

What this means is that WPFO 23 only has one channel to broadcast on. Because there still are relatively few sets that tune ATSC OTA, they broadcast in analog. When the switch is turned off on analog broadcasting in 2009, they will convert their operation to digital.

In the meantime, they have provided the FOX network HD feed to Time Warner Cable. I do not know if you can get it with DirecTV.

Joe

aaronjb_ME

09-27-07, 12:17 PM

Any word on a potential WABI / TimeWarner agreement?

Maineah

09-27-07, 02:09 PM

Aaron,

I have attached an e-mail that I received from Steve Hiltz @ WABI.

Question;

Just checking back in to see where talks with Time Warner might be
heading? Sorry to be a pest, but CSI Miami starts next week and I can't
stand to watch it in analog on the TW set top box.

Answer;

It looks like it will be a week or two more before we can make any progress. We discussed a proposal for carriage last week, and they asked for some more time to review our comments and offer some suggested terms and language.

We tried to push them ( a little bit), but they really needed some time, so we're trying to be patient. I hope you can be, as well.

Sorry about the continuing delay, but these things tend to go back and forth (and up and down) before being resolved. We'll keep after it.

Also here is the response from TWC;

Thank you for your email. We are currently working on upgrades that will allow us to broadcast more HD content to all of our customers, and we anticipate having more content at the end of this year. To date, we have not received a list of what channels will be included with this upgrade, unfortunately. The reason for this is that many of the channels are still in the contract negotiation phase, so the list is not fully defined yet. We do hope to be able to add WABI to the lineup as well, and we are in talks with Channel 5 right now. Updates will be available on our website: http://www.timewarnercable.com/newengland as they become available. Thank you for contacting Time Warner Cable of New England. Please contact us if we may be of assistance in the future.

So as far as updates on their website, I wouldn't count on them. They added WVII and WFVX to their HD lineup and I have yet seen it announced on the website. I am interested in TBSHD for the Sox in the playoffs, but I wouldn't hold out hope.

aaronjb_ME

09-27-07, 05:55 PM

Thanks for the information. I'm eagerly awaiting a positive result for customers, a group whom TW seems to have little regard for.

Maineah

09-28-07, 05:04 PM

I totally agree

lilcasino

09-28-07, 06:55 PM

had voice mail from time warner, they will be adding tbs-hd on October 1st. channel 780 i think. no idea on any other channels.

Maineah

09-29-07, 02:14 PM

Thanks for the update. Are you in the Bangor market? I hope.

lilcasino

09-30-07, 01:31 PM

yes I am in the Bangor market

Brassua

09-30-07, 08:28 PM

Does anyone have any idea when DirecTV will start carrying the Bangor, ME locals? I've been waiting for quite a while now. :( Thanks

Cravin' HD

10-02-07, 01:26 PM

When I had my HR20 installed a couple of weeks ago, the tech told me that Bangor locals would be available in April '08. That would probably coincide with the new Direct 11 satellite coming on line. He did not say whether or not the locals would be SD or HD. This market is so small, however, I would not hold my breath.

lilcasino

10-02-07, 02:39 PM

is there anyone else in the old adelphia market that has a hd dvr that isnt the motorola version?

Brassua

10-03-07, 04:42 PM

Yeah I too heard from a tech a couple weeks ago about the Bangor locals being added to DirecTV by April '08 but I also heard from someone else that they'd be on by September or October of this year and seeing as September has gone by I'm not overly optimistic about the October date. :(

hottrod1971

10-10-07, 10:55 AM

I had heard November so we'll see.

aaronjb_ME

10-11-07, 08:37 AM

Don't think that we'll be seeing any agreement between WABI and TimeWarner anytime soon. From the BDN (http://bangornews.com/news/t/city.aspx?articleid=155228&zoneid=176):

The owners of Channel 5 have sued Time Warner in U.S. District Court claiming that the cable television company illegally rebroadcast WABI-TV’s high definition digital television signal for five days earlier this year, including the Super Bowl matchup between Indianapolis and Chicago.

Time Warner denied the accusation in its answer to the complaint filed Tuesday, but also stated that if Channel 5’s copyright was infringed, it was accidental and not intentional.

WABI-TV is the only network affiliate in Bangor whose high definition signal is not picked up by Time Warner.

Television stations in Maine broadcast their signals in analog and high definition. On Feb. 18, 2009, they will cease broadcasting an analog signal.

WABI-TV Channel 5 is the CBS affiliate in Bangor. The station is owned by Diversified Communications of Portland and controlled by the Hildreth family. The station is seeking up to $150,000 in damages for each willful copyright infringement and up to $30,000 in damages for each accidental copyright infringement, the maximum allowed by law.

James G. Goggin, the Portland attorney representing WABI-TV, declined Wednesday to comment on the lawsuit that was filed on Sept. 12.

Efforts to reach Time Warner’s attorney, Jeffrey M. White of Portland, were unsuccessful Wednesday.

Time Warner, described in court documents as the nation’s second largest cable operator, has a deal with Channel 5 to rebroadcast its analog signal but not its HDTV signal.

The cable company allegedly broadcast the station’s HDTV signal for at least five days between Jan. 29 and Feb. 10.

I feel for WABI management, but to both parties: strike an agreement for the customers, who are left in the cold while two corporations bicker.