Question on ch 62 DT. Has their signal lost power recently? I live west of Lawrence, Ks. and have received them fine up until the last few weeks. I am using a Hughes Directv HD receiver and Hughes HD Tivo receiver. The signal is just on the ragged edge, come and goes. Thanks.

snm66-
You're doing really well if you can EVER get 62(47DT) from west of Lawrence. They broadcast at only 9kW ERP from near the stadiums, as you may know. As to whether they're having any trouble lately, I don't know.

Brad

I just moved from Lawrence to Basehor (basically Bonner Springs if you aren't familiar with Basehor), and am now able to pick up...

WDAF-DT

Using a dish-mounted Silver Sensor. I'm about 10 miles LOS from their location. This is quite amazing!

Both my Sony SAT-HD200 and DirecTV HR10-250 lock on to the signal quite well.

This doesn't change the fact, however, that they need to get their transmission digitial transmission issues resolved.

Also...

I used to live on the west edge of Lawrence and was able to to pick up 47DT consistently. I was using the HD TiVo in Lawrence as well, with an attic-mounted ChannelMaster 4221 antenna. Their tall tower height and low ERP really does demonstrate how well digital transmissions should work once all of the broadcasters start operating at full power with towers of appropriate height.

I just moved from Lawrence to Basehor (basically Bonner Springs if you aren't familiar with Basehor), and am now able to pick up... WDAF-DT


You must have a clear line of site or something. Makes me want to try again to see if there is some sort of difference.

Ch 62 DT had something going on last night for a while - some plain screen with station info.

Yeah won't it be nice when all of the stations are at full power? Of course we have something to tell our grandkids - "I remember when they didn't even broadcast DT at full power... and you couldn't even pick up WDAF-DT." (spoken in an elderly wavering voice).

"Gee Grandpa..." :D

Does anyone know when DiscoveryHD is going to be turned on for comcast subscribers? All the other comcast markets have already go it so what is taking them so long in Kansas City? I have emailed them several times but they never answer my question. Thanks guys

Does anyone have an update on the Time Warner HD PVR? I can't wait to make my cable bill higher!

On 7/6 I asked Michael Davolt if he had any news. This is his response.

"Nothing yet, the last word I heard is that we are looking at a release in early August. Apparently they are having issues with the recording capacity."

Sure makes me miss Alan even more.

If they are using the Scientific Atlanta's again, they are probably having issues with the hard drive crashing. My third SD one just died and I have to go get another one. Now I have to wait to get the Clone Wars DVDs to watch them ever again.

Next up... DVD burner and TV capture card.

mhw02580-
Check previous posts.

Jerky -

Great advice, thanks for such an insightful response

mhw,

A quick search for "discoveryHD AND comcast" returned 9 results you might be interested in. Here is the link for the seach.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=495537&sortby=&sortorder=

As a side note, the thread search form is located at the bottom of each page.

One of the great features of a public forum like avs is that it's users can search the history to find issues that have been previously discussed. This enables the topic to continue to explore new areas as opposed to continually re-covering issues (and re-typing answers) everytime a duplicate question appears. This doesn't mean new(er) users can't ask question but just be aware that you have a pretty good chance of being told to search the archives.

I hope you accept this in the spirit it was intended.

Sounds good, so DiscoveryHD is coming in a month or two and leave it at that? If nobody has an inside source for a more exact date then my question has been answered. Thanks guys

Has anyone heard when espnhd is comming to Time Warner? I have been told that they are working for the last year and a half.

Josh, It is a national issue (TWCKC has no control), so check the HDTV programming forum, there is a huge thread on it there.

Here is the thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=416911

Anyone here going to use TWC Digital Phone service to replace their landline? It appears TWC is trying to compete with Vonage in the VoIP market.

I am looking for a good review of TWC's particular service. I am interested, but I want to know what it sounds like first. Any thoughts on this? Thanks!

I've made the move to VOIP, but it was to AT & T's service. It's 19.99 for the first 6 months, and then 34/mo. The deciding factor for me was all of the features that come with AT & T, it's unreal.

Anybody catch the ad in today's Star on page A-11 for Comcast? In thier HD linup, they list HBO, Showtime, Cinemax, Starz HD, ESPN HD CBS, FOX and PBS as available HD channels. FOX??? Has anyone seen WDAF-DT on their Comcast lineup? Or has Comcast begun showing the national FOX HD feed? Curious that they don't mention ABC either. Sounds like false advertising to me.

I recently switched to the TWC Digital Phone (VOIP). Very quick and simple installation and everything seems to work well. Two complaints so far - My Series 1 Tivo can not dial out and they have yet to fix a problem with my caller ID, but for the price you can't really beat it.

Thanks for the comments on VOIP calling. I decided to go with a service called Lingo, $19.95/month gets you unlimited calling to US, Canada, and Western Europe (my wife has family in Germany so it's nice)...plus 3 months free...plus the ability to add 1-2 numbers that can be local to anyone you want them to be (we are going to get one number so for her family to call us it's a local call for them, and one number so for my family to call us it's a local call for them)

Lingo has mixed reviews, but I am willing to take a chance to knock my phone bill from $59.99/month to $19.95/month with more features and unlimited calls to Western Europe included and the neat "Add numbers to make it so others can call you 'locally'"

I currently have twc and I'm thinking about switching to voom is anyone out there that has voom that would recommend it.

My hesitation on moving to TWC VoIP is that my cable service is not nearly as stable as my phone service. What happens when my cable goes out? I can't call them to tell them. I am not waiting on hold for 10 mins. on my cell phone because their service is broken.

I just like the redundancy of being able to contact SBC via Inet if the phone goes out and contact TWC via phone if cable drops.

I'm trying to update a master list of OTA HD stations. Kansas City has not yet been updated. Can somebody that knows what networks are broadcasting in HD or HD/DD5.1 go to the following link and post the info?

National List of Stations Broadcasting HD / DD5.1 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=422073)

Just need the Network, Re-mapped Channel#, and if they're DD 5.1. For any of the networks (ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS, UPN & WB) that are currently broadcasting in HD.

Thanks....

Originally posted by kcjefff
My hesitation on moving to TWC VoIP is that my cable service is not nearly as stable as my phone service. What happens when my cable goes out? I can't call them to tell them. I am not waiting on hold for 10 mins. on my cell phone because their service is broken.

I just like the redundancy of being able to contact SBC via Inet if the phone goes out and contact TWC via phone if cable drops.

My cable modem has never gone out, which is why I am going with Lingo, which gives you a free adapter to connect to your cable modem (or router).

www.lingo.com

Don't know how it will go, but it sure sounds like a deal almost too good to be true (but of course, if you know anything about VoIP, you know that setting up VoIP services are so dirt cheap that you could offer a ridiculous phone service package for $5.00/month and still make a huge profit...

CPanther95
AVS Special Member

Registered: Oct 2002
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 2541
Updated. (Ocala, Kansas City, Detroit, Philadelphia, Salt Lake City, Milwaukee)


Anybody have any idea if this means WDAF FOX4 is ready to provide Kansas City with a low-power 720p FOX HDTV signal?

CPanther95 is probably just responding to this post in the National List of Stations Broadcasting HD / DD5.1 thread:

Originally posted by hdtimmy
Kansas City Metro Area:

ABC, 9-1, HD and DD5.1
CBS, 5-1, HD and DD5.1
NBC, 41-1, HD
PBS, 19-1, HD and DD5.1
UPN, 29-1, HD

*Coming this fall*
FOX, 4-1, HD and DD5.1 (O&O) *Extremely low power*
WB, 62-1, HD

Thank you.

No problem. I keep hoping for something more definite about WDAF's HD status too but unfortunately, it's just things that we've already heard (albeit not from them :rolleyes: ).

Maybe next time. :D

Sorry guys, I only put that in there because Ken H has stated many times that ALL O&O's will be HD and DD5.1 by this fall. His information is usually VERY reliable.

Personally, I was hopeful that they would do something about the power level at the same time the splicer is installed, but foxeng crushed all of my hopes. :D

Hello fellow Kansas Citians! I'm getting my first HDTV delivered Saturday and I also purchased a Samsung SIR-T351 stb open box. I plan on purchasing a Silver Sensor antenna to try and see what i can pick up with an inside antenna.

My TV is in my basement and I live in the north east corner of Blue Springs near Grain Valley off of Duncan Road. What digital channels can I expect to get with this setup? Should I just go ahead and get an outdoor antenna? I thought about getting a Channel Master Stealthtenna and attach it to the side of my chimney or the peak of my house.

We kind of live up on a hill and probably have a very good line of sight to the towers directly west from my house.

What can I expect? I can't stand to think about sending Comcast $65 every month just to get HD channels. I really dislike that company.

Welcome andrewe77. We are almost neighbors. A small outdoor antenna would be the best setup. You should be able to receive Over the Air KMBC9 DT-07 ABC HDTV, KCTV5 DT-24 CBS HDTV, KSHB41 DT-42 NBC HDTV, KCPT19 DT-18 PBS HDTV, KCWE29 DT-31 UPN HDTV, KSMO62 DT-47 *soon WB HDTV*, KMCI38 DT-36, PAX50 DT-51 and someday in the future WDAF4 DT-34 FOX HDTV. Please let WDAF FOX4 know you have an HDTV and would like to receive the WDAF OTA digital signal.

Glad to have you here in the Kansas City HDTV forum. Spread the good news television is going HDTV.

:)

Gentlemen,

I have been a WDAF TV viewer for years, and enjoy programming provided by the FOX TV network.

I live in Liberty, MO, and watch WDAF FOX4 using an over-the-air antenna. I have recently purchased a high quality, high definition digital television. I have been disappointed to find that I am unable to receive WDAF's digital broadcast due to the poor position of the broadcast antenna, and the very low power output that it provides (I receive the digital broadcasts of KCTV, KMBC, KCPT, KCWE, KMCI, KSHB, KPAX, and KSMO with reliable signals). I am also disappointed to learn that WDAF apparently has no plans to broadcast FOX's HDTV programming in HDTV (I receive HDTV programming from KCTV, KMBC, KCPT, KCWE, and KSHB. I understand KSMO will be broadcasting WB HDTV this fall.)

I find it unusual that WDAF, who has been a leader in Kansas City television, is trailing not just some, but all, of Kansas City's other TV stations in the latest television technologies: digital television, and high definition television. And not only trailing, but making no attempt to catch up.

The high quality I receive from digital broadcasts, and especially the exceptional picture quality with HDTV programming IS changing my viewing habits away from analog TV, as I'm sure it is with the many in the Kansas City area who have laid out large sums of money for high definition digital televisions.

I hope that WDAF FOX 4 will soon make the decision to follow where others have led, since it is now no longer in a position to lead.

I believe that WDAF will be 720p this fall, but the only way any of us are going to receive their signal is on cable (TWC). Even viewers with a direct line-of-sight who can see the tower cannot get a reliable signal from them. Pathetic. Hope they enjoy watching their viewership dwindle and their sponsorship dry up over the coming months.

Originally posted by hdtimmy
Sorry guys, I only put that in there because Ken H has stated many times that ALL O&O's will be HD and DD5.1 by this fall. His information is usually VERY reliable.

Personally, I was hopeful that they would do something about the power level at the same time the splicer is installed, but foxeng crushed all of my hopes. :D

No need for apologies, you gave CPANTHER95 the information that he was looking for and it is accurate from what KenH and FOXENG have told us. I was just pointing JEFFDBS to where the information was coming from. Unfortunately, CPANTHER95 doesn't have an asterisk in his matrix to denote that no one more than a mile away from the tower will be getting the signal off-air regardless of WDAFs claims otherwise. :D

Maybe we could get a group to tailgate with a generator and HD set outside of WDAF to watch the first Chiefs HD game on FOX since we won't be able to in our homes. :rolleyes:

I'm able to get all my available channels except for WDAF with a crappy RCA powered antenna in my basement! I've been watching HD PBS and it rocks!

All of the OTA digital stations look better than my analog cable. Now, I'm going to get Dish Network and I'm set.

Originally posted by andrewe77
I'm able to get all my available channels except for WDAF with a crappy RCA powered antenna in my basement! I've been watching HD PBS and it rocks!

All of the OTA digital stations look better than my analog cable. Now, I'm going to get Dish Network and I'm set.

excellent news............this Over the Air digital television is going to work. Goodbye soon to the old analog way of doing television. Hello HDTV!

Originally posted by TheHypnoToad

...Maybe we could get a group to tailgate with a generator and HD set outside of WDAF to watch the first Chiefs HD game on FOX since we won't be able to in our homes. :rolleyes:

That would make a good human interest story for the other station's news broadcast. Perhaps they could do a live remote. :D

You joke about it, but I guarantee that if you did the tailgate, and you got even one competitor local HDTV station to cover the event, FOX corporate would have that new antenna and power upgraded so quickly, your heads would spin. They would be embarassed to death to be the laughing stock of the city and the local NAB.

In order for the new digital HDTV world to be complete it is going to take both broadcasters and viewers to both do their part. We the viewers buy the HDTV, install the wiring, antenna and the set top box. The viewer then helps their family, friends and neighbors install their HDTV setups.

Now the broadcasters upgrade their towers, downlinks and station equipment to provide their loyal viewers with a full-power digital signal. Together all of us make the wonderful new world of HDTV possible.

Somehow or someway we the television viewers of the Kansas City market have got to find a way to get WDAF FOX4 to see that full-power and full bandwidth HDTV is the future of television in Kansas City.

All the other broadcasters have made the bold move to HDTV here in Kansas City. WDAF FOX4 DT-34 is a blank screen for most of us viewers in Kansas City. I just wish we could figure out why WDAF is so far behind in the digital HDTV Kansas City television broadcasting lineup. We need a miracle with the new FOX 720p HDTV fall programming almost here.

I'm finding 5, 9 and 62 to be unreliable. It starts getting pixelated or I will get no signal for hours and then all of a sudden, it starts coming in great. 19-1 comes in crystal clear all the time.

Is it my antenna? I have a Phillips amplified UHF/VHF indoor. I've found that I have to have it plugged in and amplified to get anything. Should I try a Silver Sensor? If so, then I'm guessing I need a Vhf/Uhf combiner from Radio Shack.

So, what VHF antenna should I get?

Originally posted by andrewe77
I'm finding 5, 9 and 62 to be unreliable. It starts getting pixelated or I will get no signal for hours and then all of a sudden, it starts coming in great. 19-1 comes in crystal clear all the time.

Is it my antenna? I have a Phillips amplified UHF/VHF indoor. I've found that I have to have it plugged in and amplified to get anything. Should I try a Silver Sensor? If so, then I'm guessing I need a Vhf/Uhf combiner from Radio Shack.

So, what VHF antenna should I get?

Take a look at this simple antenna from Radio Shack. http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F001%5F002%5F000&product%5Fid=15%2D2151 Place the antenna in the attic or outside along with RG-6 shielded coax cable into a ground block and then into the HD receiver. No amplifier is needed to receive local digital channels and one more note an amplifier may hurt your local channel reception. Hope this helps.

What I'm wondering, is if anyone else has these problems. Is it the network feed or my antenna? Are the KC stations reliable or not?

If I have to get an outdoor antenna, I plan on getting the Channel Master Stealthtenna because it would be much less ugly. However, I think I'm going to try the Silver Sensor first before going the outdoor route.

Originally posted by andrewe77
What I'm wondering, is if anyone else has these problems. Is it the network feed or my antenna? Are the KC stations reliable or not?...



In all likelyhood it is an antenna problem. I find 9 and 62 to be a little flaky but I know I need to move from an attic mounted antenna to a roof top. My suggestion would be to spend your money on the rooftop mount. I'm by no means an expert but I doubt a silver sensor will make that much difference over what you already have. (Somebody tell if I'm wrong)

Well, the Silver Sensor helped channel 5, strangely enough, but now I can't get 9. I'm going to try the Zenith preamp for it for $10. If that's not enough, then it's up on the roof with a new antenna and on to Ebay with the old.

I moved the antenna outside and now I'm getting all the channels as before with no dropouts.

BTW, anyone able to get WDAF yet?

The only digital channel I have difficulty with is 62. The reception is borderline and results in audio drop-outs and excessive macro-blocking.

If you are having problems specifically with channel 9, it may be because its the only KC station that's digital broadcast is on VHF (instead of UHF). It does require a VHF antenna to pick it up. I have a rooftop antenna with adjustable dipoles (basically heavy duty rabit ears aimed horizonatally) for the VHF portion. I have adjusted the length for channel 7 (channel 9's digital broadcast). This hampers the analog reception of channel 5 and especially channel 4.

I installed the antenna just before I got my digital TV, so when I get a chance to get back up to the roof, I'm going to readjust the antenna using the signal strengths on the digital stations as a guide. I'm hoping that will fix channel 62. There's the one in 100 chance that I might pick up WDAF's puny signal too.

Just talked to an engineer at WB62 and they said that while they have not been given an exact date from corporate yet, they expect to have HD sometime this fall. They will also be boosting their signal strength significantly at the same time they begin the HD service. At that time, they will look at being added to TWC's HD channels.

Thanks eyedox. Good news on WB62 (DT-47) going full-power and hopefully full-bandwidth HD this fall. Now if WDAF FOX4 DT-34 would embrace HDTV then the circle of HDTV broadcasters would be completed in Kansas City.

Now if I had to bet on which station will air the first live Kansas City local event in HD I would place my bet on KMBC-9 (DT-07). I know the Chiefs are in HD but I am talking about events like the Plaza Lighting, Saint Patrick's Day Parade or a local news story. Kansas City this is going to be fun watching the Kansas City local broadcasters go from standard definition to High Definition. Our local television news team are going to look so cool in HD.:)

Hey guys, semi-noob here....I've been following this thread for awhile but it gets a bit tedious reading 90 pages of posts although I did learn Fox4 sucks...alot :)

Okay, here's the background info:
I live in OP, KS (119th and Metcalf area) and I am trying to pull in HD signals OTA. I have a Samsung STB and a Radio Shack amplified indoor antenna. I live in an apt. complex so a roof/attic model antenna is out of the question. I have been to antennaweb and I can pull in all the digital stations in my area (can't recall about WB) except for CBS (and Fox4, which I don't count). Any ideas on what I can do to improve reception considering my limitations? CBS is broadcasting a UHF signal with decent power, right? I need hi-def CBS for Chiefs football.

Thanks for reading this and for the help!

Go to your nearest Circuit City and get the Zenith Silver Sensor antenna. Point it toward downtown. Even though it is supposedly a UHF only antenna, it will pull in the one VHF station in our area.

If you still can't get CBS, try locating the antenna outside possibly on your deck or patio.

I live just east of Blue Springs and I can get alll the stations except for WDAF but they're a bunch of losers anyway.

Our local television news team are going to look so cool in HD.
I'm not too thrilled about the prospect of seeing Micheal Mahoney in HD. :eek:

Thanks KC-Technerd and Jeffdbs - I co-opted your work and crafted another letter to WDAF FOX4 and FOX corporate. Let's see if we get anything. Hopefully I am helping the cause more than I am hurting it.

PS - Sorry for the long post!!!

July 21, 2004


Cheryl Kerns McDonald
V.P./General Manager
WDAF-TV FOX 4
3030 Summit
Kansas City, MO 64108
(816) 753-4567
cmcdonald@wdaftv4.com

Dear Cheryl,

First, I extend apologies for such a long letter. Unfortunately I have a lot I want to share with you.

Second, and most important, I want to share with you that I have been a satisfied WDAF TV viewer for many years, and enjoy programming provided by the FOX TV network. However, my satisfaction with WDAF FOX 4 is rapidly declining. I find it unusual that WDAF, who has been a leader in Kansas City television, is trailing not just some, but all, of Kansas City’s other TV stations in the latest television technologies: digital television, and high definition television. And not only trailing, but making no attempt to catch up.

I was disappointed to learn that WDAF apparently has no plans to broadcast FOX’s HDTV programming in HDTV. According to your website’s FAQ, “WDAF has no immediate plans to increase digital power.” To learn more about your position I have tried contacting numerous staff members at WDAF via e-mail, telephone and letter. I have NEVER received a response! The lone exception being once I received an EXACT word-for-word rehash of the FAQ!

I am wondering why I cannot even get a polite response from WDAF! Hence, this letter is my attempt to deliver the message that your viewership is at risk (any why) and to plead that WDAF join in the new age of high quality digital television by making it available for all it’s views, not just those across the street from the tower. For a station full of KC firsts, I am sure WDAF’s founders would join me in disappointed that WDAF has missed this great first for KC.

Here is the story behind my waning desire to continue watching WDAF FOX 4: I live in Olathe, Kansas and receive the WDAF FOX4 signal using an over-the-air antenna. I own a high quality, high definition digital television and have been disappointed to find that I am unable to receive WDAF’s digital broadcast due to the poor position of the broadcast antenna, and the very low power output that it provides. In contrast, I receive the digital broadcasts of KCTV, KMBC, KCPT, KCWE, KMCI, KSHB, KPAX, and KSMO with very reliable signals. Further, I receive HDTV programming from KCTV, KMBC, KCPT, KCWE, and KSHB! I understand KSMO will be broadcasting WB HDTV this fall.

The high quality I receive from your competitor’s digital broadcasts and especially the exceptional picture quality with HDTV programming IS changing my viewing habits away from analog TV, as I’m sure it is with the many in the Kansas City area who have laid out large sums of money for high definition digital televisions. In essence, the lack of HDTV from WDAF has resulted in me now watching other Kansas City channels. For example, my primary new source is no longer the 6:00 AM, 9:00 PM or even the 10:00 PM FOX team, as the local CBS and ABC affiliates broadcast HDTV programming that I prefer to watch. The result is that I generally choose to stay on those channels for my news coverage. Which is a shame – my wife really likes Phil Whitt and Don Harman!

Consequently, the price of HDTV sets continues to decrease. Combined with numerous programming options from cable and satellite, this affordability is resulting in just about every new television sold by Best Buy, Circuit City and other retailers is an HDTV ready or capable set! According to the Consumer Electronics Association, more than seven million digital televisions have been sold since DTV’s introduction four years ago and manufacturers now offer more than 450 models of DTV products!

I hope that WDAF FOX 4 will soon make the decision to follow where others have led, since it is now no longer in a position to lead. In order for the new digital HDTV world to be complete it is going to take both broadcasters and viewers to both do their part. For our half of the responsibility, we viewers buy the HDTV; install the wiring, antenna and the set top box. Then we help our family; friends and neighbors install their HDTV setups…and so-on. That is very much happening now in KC. For your part, the broadcasters upgrade their towers, downlinks and station equipment to provide us, your loyal viewers, with a full-power digital signal. Together all of us make the wonderful new world of HDTV possible.

All the other Kansas City broadcasters have made the bold move to HDTV. WDAF FOX4 DT-34 is a blank screen for most of us viewers in Kansas City. Why is WDAF so far behind in the digital HDTV Kansas City television broadcasting lineup? Fox corporate has recently announced its new FOX 720p HDTV fall programming – unfortunately for those of us in the KC metro, we will not be able to enjoy it.

A recent joke amongst members of the on-line Official Kansas City HDTV thread at AV Science (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=234120) suggested members get a group to tailgate with a generator and HD set outside the offices of WDAF to watch the first Chiefs HD game on FOX since we won’t be able to in our homes. That would make a good human interest story for the other station’s news broadcast. Perhaps they could do a live remote. It makes for a funny aside, but were I working for WDAF, I’m not so sure I’d find it so amusing.

Because the staff at WDAF have refuse any comments, our only other options are to express to your advertisers that their advertising dollars spent at WDAF are not being seen by a very key Kansas City market demographic. I have frequented many HDTV programming threads online and have discussed this topic at many neighborhood gatherings and at events when I travel for work – the outcome is the same: “What a shame for KC and what a disappointment for Fox. I guess you should just change the channel.”

Please do the right thing and bring WDAF into the now by joining your competitor in offering WDAF viewers the best quality signal possible. We request a full-power signal for all digital broadcasts and HDTV content when provided by the FOX feed. An alternate option is to ensure all KC views are allowed uncontested waivers to receive a national feed via cable or satellite. As WDAF is a FOX O&O affiliate, I would expect this to be a very viable alternative.

Sincerely, a potential “former” long-time WDAF viewer,

** Name and address withheld **


CC:
WDAF general Inbox - wdaftv4@wdaftv4.com
Phil Whitt - philwitt@wdaftv4.com
Don Harmon - dharman@wdaftv4.com
Thermal Stewart – tstewart@wdaftv4.com
Jim Moore – jmoore@wdaftv4.com
John Hegedus - jhegedus@wdaftv4.com
Veronica Warson – vwarson@wdaftv4.com
Scott Sjoberg – Ssjoberg@wdaftv4.com
Damon K. Bryant – dbryant@wdaftv4.com
Matt Rankin - mrankin@wdaftv4.com
Joe Early - joe.earley@fox.com
Andrew Butcher – abutcher@newscorp.com
Ivey Van Allen - IveyV@fox.com

Also posted to the KC HDTV thread at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=234120

All good points js615. I worked there 13 years and you're right that they have good people on staff that can get FOX HD going in KC if they are given the money to do so. Keep in mind that the tower can not support the additional HD antenna or feed-line.

Some changes will have to happen with KSHB's antenna that is still there following there move to the new site.
Maybe WDAF should look into tower space that's available in the KC area or change out the current antenna's on the tower?

It would be nice if in the interim, they up the power and still make the conversion to HD. At least the people who are close and the people who have cable will be able to get their signal. Being a TWC customer, I am going to be severely pissed off if I miss all of those HD NFL games FOX is planning to broadcast. I may switch to D*, yet. ESPNHD and possibly national FOX HD feeds. Sounding pretty good to me.

BTW, JS615 has provided with multiple email addresses at WDAF... Let the Email campaign begin!

Let us know if you get any responses.

Geez I'd sign my name to that! It would be nice to deliver a hard copy with a dozen (or more) signatures on it.

Well done.

If you look at the new huge KSHB television tower their is plenty of room to install a digital stick. Now the old WDAF tower still provides KSHB antenna space-it would really be nice if KSHB would provide antenna space while WDAF builds a new tower.

AS of yet, no response from anyone at WDAF or Fox corporate...

...and I know the messages were read because I have e-mail "read" receipts for all but three people on the distribution.

Just talked with Cheryl's administrative assistant - Cheryl is on vacation and will be returning to work next week. The admin said she has printed the letter and left it on Cheryl's desk for a response.

I am hoping it's not a form-letter reply.

I have been e-mailing, writing and calling our local broadcasters ever since digital television arrived in Kansas City. A KCPT engineer helped me alot when DT-18 was the only digital channel in town. KMBC/KCWE people are just as friendly as a good neighbor. A person named Jody Judge from the company which owns KCTV return my call one day to assure me KCTV does listen to their viewers. KSMO engineer always answer my questions. KSHB answers e-mail real fast. An engineer at KPXE did return my call.

But WDAF to me seems to hope all of us growing number of digital viewers will just fade quietly into the night. We need you WDAF if this circle of digital broadcasters is going to be complete here in Kansas City. Please WDAF hear the people of Kansas City asking you to provide FOX-HD at full power. We viewers have seen full power and full bandwidth 720p and 1080i television here in Kansas City. Even Walmart has heard us and HDTV's with built in digital turners are in Walmart stores now(Thanks Walmart :) ). HDTV is wonderful news for Kansas City television broadcasters.

Is KCTV5 channel 24 down? I can't seem to get it today.

Originally posted by andrewe77
Is KCTV5 channel 24 down? I can't seem to get it today.

KCTV might be having problems I am receiving a 4X3 SD picture with channel mapping to DT-24 instead of channel 5. Hopefully DogofMadness will let us know if KCTV is having digital OTA problems.

I can report that KCPT and KCTV are not being received here in Olathe.
No OTA via antenna, and not on the Comcast HD digital box.
July 26, 2004

I can also report that 5-1, 19-1 and 19-2 aren't coming in. I'm glad cause I thought my stb or antenna was going bad.

What's the deal with the unreliability?

Originally posted by jeffdbs
Hopefully DogofMadness will let us know if KCTV is having digital OTA problems.

We lost the remultiplexer. It started acting up last night (Sun) and gave it up 2nite. So no HD. This applies to OTA as well as cable. I've reinstalled the original SD equip just to have something on air. As of this writing I can't say how long it will be. I'll keep you posted!

Thank you DogofMadness for keeping us posted. Godspeed on your return to beautiful 1080i CBS HDTV.

Just to let you all know, I just saw a commercial for the TWC HD DVR in KC. I called and they said I could pick one up in the morning. I will let you know if they were full of it or not.

Good luck DogofMadness, and thanks for keeping us posted

KCJeff,

I would definitely call before leaving the house. My insider says they aren't ready yet, but getting very close. My guess is that the person on the phone wasn't informed. I hope I'm wrong, but I'd call first.

Good Luck.

The following came from Michael Davolt (Director Customer Service) this morning after I asked about availability of the HD-DVR:

"Not yet, however they are getting really close to having it ready"

I also called the 358-2292 number and was told that they are not availabe yet.

Yep, you guys were all right. I knew it was too good to be true. Unhooked my box and got to the store at Barry Trails at 930. They had no clue what I was talking about. I did find out however, that pricing will be the same as the current DVR. They are dropping prices on the DVR service to 4.95 a month, so my current DVR goes down by 5 and then my new HD box will be 5 more. I break even and the wife is never the wiser. hehe. I will just tell her I got promotional pricing for being early on the waiting list.

Craash and kcjefff,

Thanks for keeping us up-to-date on the HD-DVR. I'm holding my breath and can't wait to have that available!!! I've been considering going to some other provider due to the lack of ESPN-HD, but this might change my mind!

I'm sure you will anyway, but please post when they're available!!

I asked Michael Davolt this:
"Would "really close" be in time for the Chiefs Preseason games?"

And got this in return:
"I'm hoping, but not for sure"

technicalitalian- would you please comment on the article on ABCNews website. http://abcnews.go.com/service/DailyNews/abcnews_now_faq.html#11 This article talks about mul.......multica.......multicasting( I have a very hard time typing this word) on the ABC stations. Does KMBC have any plans to breakup the the bandwidth on KMBC DT-07 that is currently being used to provide Kansas City with wonderful full-bandwidth and full-power ABC HDTV programming?

I really enjoy your station digital HDTV programming and picture and I worry that multicasting may hurt the perfect HDTV picture your station broadcast. If you can shed any light on your station future bandwidth plans I would surely appreciate your answer. Thank you. :)

Jeffdbs,

I would appreciate it if you would refrain from using language like that. The M word has no place in this forum or in the HDTV world.

:-)

Seriously, I hope that technicalitalian will tell us that they have no plans of trying to provide a poor(er) picture.

I vote we no longer allow such profanity and that any members using such language will be forced to sit and watch all three seasons of American Idol on WDAF's crappy 4x3 SD feed.

Originally posted by js615
I vote we no longer allow such profanity and that any members using such language will be forced to sit and watch all three seasons of American Idol on WDAF's crappy 4x3 SD feed.

Cruel and Unusual punishment. I like it.

For repeat offenders we could intensify the punishment by requiring any one of fox's other "reality" shows to be ran back to back with Idol.

I don't want to read all 92 pages to answer my question. So, hopefully someone can help me. I have Dish and live 80 miles east of KC can I receive any HD from KC?

Originally posted by zeus75
I don't want to read all 92 pages to answer my question. So, hopefully someone can help me. I have Dish and live 80 miles east of KC can I receive any HD from KC?

Go to atennaweb.org and plug in your zip - With the right antenna setup, and no major obstructions, you should be able to pull in most, if not all, KC's digital signals...no WDAF of course!

With the mfrs. help I was able to revive the remultiplexer and restored HD at the beginning of Prime Time last nite. However, the unit may still have a recurring problem. But I'll certainly attempt to keep on top of it!!!!

Originally posted by DogOfMadness
With the mfrs. help I was able to revive the remultiplexer and restored HD at the beginning of Prime Time last nite. However, the unit may still have a recurring problem. But I'll certainly attempt to keep on top of it!!!!

God bless you DogOfMadness. Thank you for all of your hard work in keeping KCTV5 (DT-24) CBS HDTV 1080i going strong here in Kansas City.:)

Thank you DogOfMadness not only for your hard work, but for keeping us informed here.

On another note, what is the story on KCPT-DT? 19.1 and 19.2 disappeared about the same time as KCTV-DT went down. No signal at all on Digital 18. Confirmed with two receivers. For a few days before that my receiver kept picking it up as 720p, even though it should be, and previously has been, 1080i.

At least with KCPT-DT off the air, I know that it is the analog channel 19 that is interfering with the reception of KCTV-DT on my Sony SAT-HD300.

I received this e-mail from KCPT engineering department today. "We have lost a power supply and expect to be up again within a day".

"Hello zeus75" Glad to have you here in our Kansas City Midwest area forum. Just let us know if you need any help on seeing and hearing the exciting new world of digital Over the Air HDTV television broadcasting.

Tonight KSHBDT 41.1 seems to be having problems too. The video is badly out of sync with the sound. The sound seems well in-sync with picture on analog channel 41, but the digital audio is dropping out on occasion too. The video has also been kind of choppy and jerky at times this evening.

Originally posted by zeus75
I don't want to read all 92 pages to answer my question. So, hopefully someone can help me. I have Dish and live 80 miles east of KC can I receive any HD from KC?

Hi, zeus75, welcome to the KC Forum!

While you may be able to receive KC DT stations from your location, I'm not sure you'll be able to do it with a DISH receiver. I'm also a DISH sub (I have a 6000 receiver), and it's well known that E* receivers all have earlier-generation ATSC chips that aren't particularly stable for OTA. You may want to consider a standalone ATSC receiver such as a Samsung or LG for your OTA. If you do go with an E* receiver, make sure you can return it if it doesn't work for you.

Does anyone else here have any experience with an E* receiver that far away from transmitters?

Brad

Originally posted by jeffdbs
technicalitalian- would you please comment on the article on ABCNews website. http://abcnews.go.com/service/DailyNews/abcnews_now_faq.html#11 This article talks about mul.......multica.......multicasting( I have a very hard time typing this word) on the ABC stations. Does KMBC have any plans to breakup the the bandwidth on KMBC DT-07 that is currently being used to provide Kansas City with wonderful full-bandwidth and full-power ABC HDTV programming?

I really enjoy your station digital HDTV programming and picture and I worry that multicasting may hurt the perfect HDTV picture your station broadcast. If you can shed any light on your station future bandwidth plans I would surely appreciate your answer. Thank you. :)

Take a deep breath, jeff, use a paper bag if you have to! :)

If KMBC wanted to add this ABC News channel, would it be possible to do it on one of the KCWE-29 subchannels? Yes, I know, they broadcast in HD once in awhile, also, but it wouldn't be as bad as having it on KMBC, IMO.

Brad

Originally posted by zeus75
I don't want to read all 92 pages to answer my question. So, hopefully someone can help me. I have Dish and live 80 miles east of KC can I receive any HD from KC?

Welcome zeus,

I live east of KC also. Most stations are 65-72 miles as the crow flies for me. An external antenna with lots of height will be a necessity. Some of the stations are sketchy at times even at that. Good luck with your setup.

Dan

I receive HD ota and have not had any signal from KCPT the last couple of days. Has anyone gotten any further update as to their situation?


Thanks, Robert

I am 75 air miles from the KC DTV transmitters in Sedalia, MO and have fairly consistent reception on all but WDAF-DT. One of my OTA receivers is a Dish 811 and it is outperforming my standalone HDTV set top box. I was wondering if anyone else saw that KCTV has filed with the FCC for a modification of their DTV construction permit? One application is for an increase in antenna height to over 1000 feet for their DTV and one of the two new apps has an increase in power from the proposed 800kw to 1 megawatt ERP. The increase in height would do wonders for reception out here, let alone a four fold increase in power.

Originally posted by timmoradio
I am 75 air miles from the KC DTV transmitters in Sedalia, MO and have fairly consistent reception on all but WDAF-DT. One of my OTA receivers is a Dish 811 and it is outperforming my standalone HDTV set top box. I was wondering if anyone else saw that KCTV has filed with the FCC for a modification of their DTV construction permit? One application is for an increase in antenna height to over 1000 feet for their DTV and one of the two new apps has an increase in power from the proposed 800kw to 1 megawatt ERP. The increase in height would do wonders for reception out here, let alone a four fold increase in power.

Timmoradio - Welcome to the forum! Thanks for the info on your 811 - that kind of surprises me, but it's good news.

Good catch on the KCTV information, also. It appears that they just submitted to the FCC on Monday this week. They're actually LOWERING the antenna height about 12' from their original DT application, but increasing the ERP from 842 to 1000 kW. They must be getting ready to kick the FM station that's in their way off their tower.

Brad

Aaron Barnhart did an article today in the Kansas City Star on KMBC and the ABC News sub channel. http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/entertainment/columnists/aaron_barnhart/9263688.htm

Ooooh... Bad article Aaron. I would MUCH rather have crystal clear primetime HD over ANOTHER 24-hour news channel. :rolleyes:

I am going to e-mail Aaron and KMBC.

Bad, bad, bad...

I wonder when the losers at NBC 41 are going to figure out that their audio is horribly out of sync?

Doesn't anyone monitor the transmissions?

The out of sync condition, on KSHBTV 41, appears to be only on the network feed from NBC. Neither the voice or the picture are in sync with the analog station tonight.

Does anyone know why KCPT-DT is transmitting a 720p signal? Isn't the PBS-HD feed in 1080i? It appears to me to be effecting picture quality.

They were transmitting 1080i until a few weeks ago. It's been 720p ever since.

Originally posted by KC-Technerd
Does anyone know why KCPT-DT is transmitting a 720p signal? Isn't the PBS-HD feed in 1080i? It appears to me to be effecting picture quality.

They were transmitting 1080i until a few weeks ago. It's been 720p ever since.

Good question to ask the engineer at KCPT( Mr. Hagg).

DirectTv now offers a HD DVR built by Hughes. Multiple tuners allow you to watch and record different HD channels simultaneously. I know what I want for Christmas!

Sorry, here is the link for some limited info on the DirectTv HD DVR

http://www.americansatellite.com/products/viewprodacc2.asp?ITEM=1499

Originally posted by jeffdbs
technicalitalian- would you please comment on the article on ABCNews website. http://abcnews.go.com/service/DailyNews/abcnews_now_faq.html#11 This article talks about mul.......multica.......multicasting( I have a very hard time typing this word) on the ABC stations. Does KMBC have any plans to breakup the the bandwidth on KMBC DT-07 that is currently being used to provide Kansas City with wonderful full-bandwidth and full-power ABC HDTV programming?

I really enjoy your station digital HDTV programming and picture and I worry that multicasting may hurt the perfect HDTV picture your station broadcast. If you can shed any light on your station future bandwidth plans I would surely appreciate your answer. Thank you. :)

At this time, there are no plans to multicast. But that's not to say it won't happen in the future, (and I'm not implying anything). 720P is a much more compression friendly format and the HD encoders and statistical multiplexers are getting better and better. It wasn't that long ago that broadcast engineers couldn't imagine compressing a 1.5 Gb program stream into 19.3 Mb. Isn't technology wonderful? TI

Originally posted by Bradtothebone

Good catch on the KCTV information, also. It appears that they just submitted to the FCC on Monday this week. They're actually LOWERING the antenna height about 12' from their original DT application, but increasing the ERP from 842 to 1000 kW.


Does anyone (DogOfMadness) have an idea about the timeline regarding the changes to KCTV HD? Is this something that will take a month or 6 months? Just curious as I am still having trouble picking up KCTV HD OTA and an increase in power should help.

Raven_13 I sent you a PM.

Jason

Originally posted by andrewe77
I wonder when the losers at NBC 41 are going to figure out that their audio is horribly out of sync?

Doesn't anyone monitor the transmissions?

Probably the best thing to do is write a friendly e-mail to the KSHB engineer team. KSHB has done a great job in bringing NBC Over the Air 1080i HDTV to Kansas City. Kansas City has great digital television broadcasting. And yes hopefully someday soon WDAF will join the ranks of our television station that are broadcasting in full-power and full bandwidth HDTV. :)

Hi Everyone,

I hope this is the right place to post this. If not, please direct me elseware. This is my first post to the Official KC thread. I'm getting ready to take the HDTV plung. But before I do I want to figure out how I'll handle my HDTV source input. I live in Olathe so as I see it my options are DirecTV, Dishnetwork, or Comcast. I'm not really considering VOOM cause I'd like my local channels integrated (on same channel list) with all the cable/satelite stuff, and VOOM doesn't carry some of the stations I want.

Currently I subscribe to DirecTV. They've been ok for SD. What I really can't live without is the DVR/PVR service we've had with DirecTV. We've had Ultimate TV, which has worked fine, but I'm ready to change to a new PVR service that has more features.

Anyway, I've been leaning towards Comcast and here are the reasons why.

1) As I understand it Comcast has our local KC channels (with the HD content included) so I wouldn't have to fool with an antenna.

2) Comcast has a PVR solution, although how good it is I'm not sure and I'd like some feedback from other current Comcast users. My minimum requirements for PVR are that it be a dual tuner solution and can handle HD content. So far it sounds like Tivo, ReplayTV, or Moxi are the best. I'd love to get the Moxi service but I don't know if Comcast of Independance carries it. Can someone confirm this?

3) With cable I wouldn't have to worry any more about losing service during storms. Although not terribly bad with DirectTV, its still a plus not having to worry about it.

My questions are:

A) Who in KC offers the best all around HDTV service, Comcast, DirecTv or Dish and why?
B) Specific to Comcast, how do people feel about their HD and SD service and the quality of the HD feeds (local channels especially) in particular.
C) Which DVR/PVR solution is the best right now for HDTV.

If anyone else has anything to add or wants to give me other ideas, feel free to chime in.

Thanks

From Robert Hagg at KCPT

"What you mentioned in your email is totally accurate, we are broadcasting in 720p now. The reason concerns the age of our encoding equipment. 1080I requires a lot more 'room' in the spectrum than 720P. KCPT is required to simulcast our analog programming and at the same time we want to bring the PBS HD feed to the viewer. Doing this multicast with 1080I created a lot of 'blocking' and other 'bit errors' that were distracting. So, to compensate for the age of our equipment and the FCC need to simulcast, we converted to 720p. We have on the capital list a proposal to upgrade the encoding equipment to allow us to statistically multiplex digital signals. At that point we will return to 1080I, the 'real' HD.

Thanks for your concern,

Bob"

And my response,

"Bob,

Thanks for your quick reply and thorough explanation.

I would disagree however that 1080i is the 'real' HD. I actually prefer 720p programming, and believe it is superior to 1080i when active pixels per amount of time and digital compression are taken in to consideration. However I'm a strong believer in maintaining programming material in it's native format all the way end user, whether that be 1080i, 720p, 480p or 480i; so I am glad to hear that KCPT plans to return to 1080i for it's HD broadcasting. I believe that converting the 1080i feed to 720p before broadcast, leads to a loss of picture detail on most HDTVs (those that are not 720p native).

Should PBS ever change it's HD feed to 720p then I would support KCPT broadcasting in 720p and consider that an improvement over the 1080i system.

Thanks again,..."

Welcome sbrown02. I have Dish Network and I do enjoy the service. I do not have a HDPVR yet but Dish Network does offer an HDPVR along with many SDPVR's. Other people on this forum will give more advice on Dish Network, Comcast and DirecTV offers. Most of the satellite boxes have Over the Air 8VSB digital turners so local HDTV reception is free with a simple antenna hookup. Best of luck and we are glad to have your input here at the Kansas City HDTV forum.

Thanks Jeffdbs,

I look forward to hearing what others have to say about how they like or dislike their current HDTV service provider.

Sbrowne02, I would say you need to take a hard look at your viewing habits and then decide. I live in Olathe, put a $39 antenna on my roof and have Hi Def for free on local channels. Yes I did buy a Sony HD200 receiver and I love it, and yes I do use Directv also. I have had no problems at all with directv. The OTA signals for local have an issue once in a great while, but the major local stations have come along way in the last year (except for Fox, no need to bash them, everyone already knows they suck when it comes to this subject. )
I have decide that 90% of my viewing is the local broadcasting. If it wasn't for Discovery HD once in awhile, HD net a little and ESPN Sunday nite football in Hi Def I would just use the good ole antenna. I am not big on upconverted movies of HBO, to me it is a joke.

Good luck

I do OTA only. Once upon a time (prior to my HDTV) I had cable. Like wruss64 I found I spent most of my time watching local stations. There are a few cable/satellite channels I would like to have but I can't see paying that much for the small number of cable channels I watch.

Anyone catch "October Sky" last night on ABC? Looked great - good movie!

sbrown02 - I have Comcast and I have been very disappointed with Comcast since I moved (Time Warner was much better). The HD package is INHD/INHD2, ESPN, locals and premiums if you subscribe. Still no Discovery HD (it's been coming for 6 months). I have the single tuner HD DVR (the dual is supposed to be here at the end of the month). If the dual is not MUCH better I will be switching to D*. If you have used Tivo at all, you will not be happy with the software on the boxes. It's a very simple digital VCR, the only thing I can say is that it records HD. No season passes (can record the same time every week, but it's not tied to guide data), no suggestions, only 7hrs of HD. All around not impressive.

I live in Lee's Summit MO near MO-291 and MO-150. I have a Terk TV36 and a Hughes HDSTB for D* and OTA HDTV. For the last year or so, my antenna has been in my attic pointed at 270 deg. According to antenna web, most station are located at 330 deg except 38-1 and 41-1 which are located at 314 deg. I had an average signal strength of 85% on all channels except 62-1 and 4-1, and would occasionally have some digital breakup. So I decided to move the antenna to a pole mounted on the side of my house and aligned it to 321 deg splitting the difference of the two station locations. I was only able to get about 50-60% signal strength and a lot of digital breakup. Aimed at 314 deg, I could get 41-1 and 38-1 at 100% and the others at 5-10%. At 330 deg, I could get 5-1, 9-1, 29-1 & 62-1 at 100%, 19-1 & 19-2 at 80% and 41-1 & 38-1 at only 10%. From everything that I've read says that in the attic is worse than outside, but that is not exactly what I am seeing. I would appreciate any suggestions on how I could get all the channels at the same heading on my antenna.

..Just (finally) talked with Cheryl...

Basically - there is no new story from the WDAF folks. They are aware of all of our concerns and wish they had something to share beyond what we already know. No dates, no plans, no luck...

My read into all of this is that since WDAF is OOO, they may be under the guidance of Fox Corporate offices. This would imply that even if if WDAF had budget to make Digital and HD a reality for the greater KC audience, unless FOX Corporate gave the OK, they could not move forward. Perhaps we need to take our concerns to FOX Corporate and see what happens.

Based on the conversation, it did sound to me as if Jim More (VP Engineering) would like to make something happen. I pressed as hard as I could (Cheryl was very busy and I didn't want to be a pest) but she wouldn't budge on giving any details. Again, my impressions are that they clearly understand the issues, most likely have planned for some development, but are unable to do anything without corporate approval.

BTW - Cheryl did indicate her feelings that uncontested waivers would not be forthcoming if D*TV went live with national FOX feeds. However, she did agree to check with the corporate lawyers.

I asked that perhaps Jim or some member of the WADF engineering staff could join our forum and keep us posted. Even bad news is better than feeling ignored.

What a drag...but then again we are only ranked 33 of all FOX markets. Poor us, we may never shed the Cow-Town image.

I live in Lee's Summit MO near MO-291 and MO-150. I have a Terk TV36 and a Hughes HDSTB for D* and OTA HDTV. For the last year or so, my antenna has been in my attic pointed at 270 deg. According to antenna web, most station are located at 330 deg except 38-1 and 41-1 which are located at 314 deg. I had an average signal strength of 85% on all channels except 62-1 and 4-1, and would occasionally have some digital breakup. So I decided to move the antenna to a pole mounted on the side of my house and aligned it to 321 deg splitting the difference of the two station locations. I was only able to get about 50-60% signal strength and a lot of digital breakup. Aimed at 314 deg, I could get 41-1 and 38-1 at 100% and the others at 5-10%. At 330 deg, I could get 5-1, 9-1, 29-1 & 62-1 at 100%, 19-1 & 19-2 at 80% and 41-1 & 38-1 at only 10%. From everything that I've read says that in the attic is worse than outside, but that is not exactly what I am seeing. I would appreciate any suggestions on how I could get all the channels at the same heading on my antenna.

Terk is known for being overpriced and having poor reception from what I've read around here. I'm on the east side of Blue Springs and can get all the stations. My setup is a Zenith Silver Sensor mounted outside on my chimney. I don't have any type of amp on it either.

I suggest you head to Circuit City and get one cheap while they still have them for under $15. I have mine facing about ESE and I can even get the lone VHF channel even though the antenna is rated only UHF.

I didn't think we would need a waiver for Direct's national feed for a Fox O&O station. Could WDAF still block getting the HD feed?

Political comment deleted.

Originally posted by 4MUKC
I didn't think we would need a waiver for Direct's national feed for a Fox O&O station. Could WDAF still block getting the HD feed?

The way I read it, anyone in an O&O market will get the HD feed from D* regardless of what any O&O station's managment may think about it.

If the way they're handling the CBS O&O situation applies, this assumption will be correct.

I don't think any of us will know the true answer to this question though until they light up the national feeds.

Finally!!

Just got this from MichaelDavolt at TWC.
--
I just received confirmation this morning that I can get you one. It will have a few known bugs, but I believe they are minor, and will be fixed in of August. What cable store is closest to you? I can have it at any location by tomorrow and some of the stores today?

--

This is in regards to the Passport driven HD-DVR.

In response to sbrown02's question --

I use DirecTV and OTA and couldn't be happier. I am using the new HD TiVo in one room, and it works very well. Has a couple of glitches, but for the most part I am very happy.

The HD TiVo is still a bit difficult to get ahold of, but not impossible. I've never had an opportunity to personally compare TiVo to UltimateTV, so I couldn't tell you if you'd be more or less happy with that solution.

Originally posted by Craash
I just received confirmation this morning that I can get you one. It will have a few known bugs, but I believe they are minor, and will be fixed in of August. What cable store is closest to you? I can have it at any location by tomorrow and some of the stores today?
Good news on the SA Explorer 8000HD. I will probably wait until the glitches and bugs are worked out before I sign up. So the new DVR price at TWC will be $5 add-on instead of the old $10 as far as everyone has heard?

Originally posted by Eyedox
Good news on the SA Explorer 8000HD. I will probably wait until the glitches and bugs are worked out before I sign up. So the new DVR price at TWC will be $5 add-on instead of the old $10 as far as everyone has heard?

Prices haven't changed from the current setup.

5 for the box, and 5 for the service.

Originally posted by js615
..Just (finally) talked with Cheryl...

BTW - Cheryl did indicate her feelings that uncontested waivers would not be forthcoming if D*TV went live with national FOX feeds. However, she did agree to check with the corporate lawyers.


I would have to echo the couple of posts above me...it is my belief that those of us with the D* HD package will receive the Fox HD national feed once it is active whether WDAF likes it or not.

That is the way that the CBS HD national feeds have been handled, and the wording in the press release was such that I believe the Fox HD feeds will be handled the same way.

We shouldn't have TOO long to wait until we find out for sure................

Originally posted by 4MUKC
I didn't think we would need a waiver for Direct's national feed for a Fox O&O station. Could WDAF still block getting the HD feed?

As stated by others, a waiver from WDAF to get the national FOX feed from D* shouldn't be a concern but where the rubber hits the road is how D* will handle blackouts of NFL games in both CBS and FOX O&O markets. As far as I can tell the jury is still out on that issue. :eek:

Originally posted by Craash
Finally!!

Just got this from MichaelDavolt at TWC.
--
I just received confirmation this morning that I can get you one. It will have a few known bugs, but I believe they are minor, and will be fixed in of August. What cable store is closest to you? I can have it at any location by tomorrow and some of the stores today?

--

This is in regards to the Passport driven HD-DVR.

So, Craash, is this just your deal, or are they available to the public? If not publicly available, any idea (guess) when they might be?

Thanks for the update! Good luck in testing!!

Originally posted by squeak49
So, Craash, is this just your deal, or are they available to the public? If not publicly available, any idea (guess) when they might be?

Thanks for the update! Good luck in testing!!

They are not available to the public yet. I would expect them to become available by the first week in September, if not the last week of August.

Re: WDAF waiver - I have been talking with Mark Lipps from FOX Corporate offices in LA (Affiliate Relations). He informed me that the waivers are required and release is up to the local affiliate. I owe him a return call on the Digital and HD situation here in KC. (I got tied up with work so I had to cut the first call short).

It was mentioned above that folks were automatically getting the CBS national HD Feed - I called D*TV and inquired. I Was told I was in the local viewing area and would need a waiver from KCTV5. I asked them to submit on my behalf. That was over a month ago and I still do not have the feed. So, from my experience, D*TV is not automatically giving HD feeds.

In fact, if you go to D*TV's website, it says right on there that a waiver is required. Here is the text from their page:

"Please note that if you cannot see a picture on channel 80 or 81, and you live in one of the above markets, you may need to obtain a waiver from one or more non-local CBS affiliates. This can take up to 45 days to process.

Customers eligible for Distant Network Services who have HD equipment will receive CBS HDTV as part of their DNS subscription."

I really do not understand the logic behind WDAF's lack of upgrade. As a recent transplant from the Gateway City, the Fox O and O in the St. Louis market was a leader in DTV (not HDTV) broadcasting. KTVI Fox 2 was the first DTV station on the air in the market in 1999 and built a twin 1100 foot tower in the shadow of their analog tower to hold their DTV antenna. They went to the full 1 MW of power before the Gannett and Belo owned stations. Now that the FM station is off the Ch. 4 tower, you would think WDAF would be able to do more than flea power, 200 feet off the ground.

I'll be picking up the 8000HD tomorrow as well. In reading the HD Recorders and HD Harware forums, I've seen some complaints about the picture quality from this box, but I don't know if that's just for the boxes running SARA, or if it also applies to the ones running Passport. I currently have a 3250HD, so I'll compare the 8000HD picture to the 3250 before taking it back.

Originally posted by js615
Re: WDAF waiver - I have been talking with Mark Lipps from FOX Corporate offices in LA (Affiliate Relations). He informed me that the waivers are required and release is up to the local affiliate. I owe him a return call on the Digital and HD situation here in KC. (I got tied up with work so I had to cut the first call short).

It was mentioned above that folks were automatically getting the CBS national HD Feed - I called D*TV and inquired. I Was told I was in the local viewing area and would need a waiver from KCTV5. I asked them to submit on my behalf. That was over a month ago and I still do not have the feed. So, from my experience, D*TV is not automatically giving HD feeds.

In fact, if you go to D*TV's website, it says right on there that a waiver is required. Here is the text from their page:

"Please note that if you cannot see a picture on channel 80 or 81, and you live in one of the above markets, you may need to obtain a waiver from one or more non-local CBS affiliates. This can take up to 45 days to process.

Customers eligible for Distant Network Services who have HD equipment will receive CBS HDTV as part of their DNS subscription."

:confused: Since WDAF is a FOX Owned & Operated (O&O), there is no need for a waiver in the Kansas City Market to get the signal when D* begins transmission. I'm not sure why Mr. Lipps is referring to waivers unless he doesn't realize that WDAF is a FOX O&O but the press release from D* specifically said that the signal would be available to D* subscribers in FOX O&O markets. If we weren't FOX O&O, then he is correct when he says a waiver is required.

I don't think that anyone in Kansas City automatically got the CBS HD feed from D* when it started as KCTV is not a CBS O&O. That is unless they already had a waiver in place from KCTV. When I mentioned CBS in my earlier note about the D* HD feeds and NFL blackouts, that was in the generic sense about what D* would do. I didn't mean to imply that I was getting the CBS HD feed from them. Besides, KCTV is providing a great HD signal unlike WDAF. :D

My understanding is the same as that stated by TheHypnoToad.

This understanding is drawn from my reading of many threads in the HDTV Programming forum attesting to real-world experience with regard to CBS HD availability in O&O markets, and how that compares to D*'s agreement with FOX.

Originally posted by Craash
Finally!!

Just got this from MichaelDavolt at TWC.
--
I just received confirmation this morning that I can get you one. It will have a few known bugs, but I believe they are minor, and will be fixed in of August. What cable store is closest to you? I can have it at any location by tomorrow and some of the stores today?

--

This is in regards to the Passport driven HD-DVR.

Craash, can you answer a few questions when you get it and have had a chance to give it a thorough test?

1) Does it have a coax out or only components? I'm trying to hook it to my HD set as well as run it through the rest of the house, so coax is necessary for my SD sets.
2) Are there any features missing from the SD DVR? Any reason NOT to want the HD unit?
3) Are there any new features that the SD DVR doesn't offer (other than the ability to record in HD?)
3) How's the picture quality?

Thanks!

fcsmith, how are you getting the 8000HD? Do you have the same type of connections as Craash?

Originally posted by kcjefff
fcsmith, how are you getting the 8000HD? Do you have the same type of connections as Craash?
Sort of. I ended up working with a couple of the higher level Customer Service folks at TWC (including Craash's contact) when I contacted them about getting a cable box with firewire after the FCC mandate kicked in on April 1.

Re WDAF Waivers:

All I know is that WDAF said they doubted people would be allowed to have access to the National feed if the viewer is in the local range; regardless of the original press release. This was corroborated by the Affiliate Relations people at FOX corporate offices as well. However, Cheryl did say she would check with legal.

Also - I have also learned from the corporate folks that the tower is not the issue as much as local codes. Even though space is free on the tower, they are closed to power increases because of local codes. I'm not sure if this means they need to relocate to another tower or what, but apparently "off the record" - WDAF has submitted plans to FOX corporate and are awaiting approval and guidance on next steps. This is better news for sure.

Originally posted by js615
Re WDAF Waivers:

All I know is that WDAF said they doubted people would be allowed to have access to the National feed if the viewer is in the local range; regardless of the original press release. This was corroborated by the Affiliate Relations people at FOX corporate offices as well. However, Cheryl did say she would check with legal.

Also - I have also learned from the corporate folks that the tower is not the issue as much as local codes. Even though space is free on the tower, they are closed to power increases because of local codes. I'm not sure if this means they need to relocate to another tower or what, but apparently "off the record" - WDAF has submitted plans to FOX corporate and are awaiting approval and guidance on next steps. This is better news for sure.

Thanks for the update js! That is much better news than we've ever heard.



I'm glad I'm apparently the one person on earth who can actually receive their OTA signal.

Originally posted by timmoradio
I really do not understand the logic behind WDAF's lack of upgrade. As a recent transplant from the Gateway City, the Fox O and O in the St. Louis market was a leader in DTV (not HDTV) broadcasting. KTVI Fox 2 was the first DTV station on the air in the market in 1999 and built a twin 1100 foot tower in the shadow of their analog tower to hold their DTV antenna. They went to the full 1 MW of power before the Gannett and Belo owned stations. Now that the FM station is off the Ch. 4 tower, you would think WDAF would be able to do more than flea power, 200 feet off the ground.

The St Louis market is under different FCC rules than Kansas City. The FCC Rules stated that ABC, CBS, FOX and NBC stations in the Top 30 Markets had to be on and at full power by May 1, 1999. All of the rest of the stations had to be on by May 1, 2002, and were not required to be at full power until a date that has yet to be determined by the FCC if they chose not to.

St Louis is market number 21. Kansas City is market number 31. That is the difference. Kansas City is not unique. Just a quick tour around the local forum here will show that many of the O & O's not in Top 30 markets are not at full power yet.

I picked my unit up just a bit ago, and although I won't be able to hook it up until tonight (if the twins work with me, that is) I can confirm that it does have coax along with component, DVI (supose to be active), Svideo, and composite RCA.

I was wrong about the price. The box is 10.50 (same as any box) but the DVR service is 9.95 (it's only 4.95 for the E8K). In my case, I'll return two boxes (I had a HD box and a E8K on in the same cabinet to feed my bigscreen HDTV) so I'll actually save some money.

Originally posted by Jayhawk
Craash, can you answer a few questions when you get it and have had a chance to give it a thorough test?

1) Does it have a coax out or only components? I'm trying to hook it to my HD set as well as run it through the rest of the house, so coax is necessary for my SD sets.
2) Are there any features missing from the SD DVR? Any reason NOT to want the HD unit?
3) Are there any new features that the SD DVR doesn't offer (other than the ability to record in HD?)
3) How's the picture quality?

Thanks!

Originally posted by foxeng
St Louis is market number 21. Kansas City is market number 31. That is the difference. Kansas City is not unique. Just a quick tour around the local forum here will show that many of the O & O's not in Top 30 markets are not at full power yet.

So I guess KC is not the only "Cow Town" in denial!!! Maybe if the Chiefs make it to the Superbowl, we'll get some love as far as market prioritizations go...but then, I guess that is a whole different thread!

Well, I have the 8KHD installed. It's rough, but I'm glad I have it. Bad news first. The S-video and DVI connections don't work on my box. Component only (I didn't check the coax). I will check with Michael tomorrow to see if this is a know bug.

Guide/interface is just like the 8K. Channel changing is a tad faster than the 8k, but not as fast as the 3250.

160GB hard drive.

Digital Coax and Optical audio out (besides RCA).

Grey bars on 4:3 content, unless you choose stretch (1 option) or zoom.

Can choose 480i,480p,720p, or 1080i (any or all) output.

All in all, very similiar to the 8K passport model.

Not enough time to make a determination on PQ. It MIGHT not have been as nice as the plain HD box, but it could be that I have been reading that and expecting it. It could have also been that I ran the old HD box via the DVI, and I only get a picture from the HDDVR via the component.

The DVI and S-Video connections don't work for me either on the 8000HD. I compared the HD picture quality with the 3250HD, and there is little to no difference that I can tell. I was disappointed (but not surprised) that there is no firewire port on the box. Guess I'll have to hang on to the 3250HD if I want to record HD to D-VHS (though the firewire interface is buggy).

I dont use TIVO but this is good news

11:55 AM PDT, August 4, 2004 E-mail story Print


FCC Approves Limited Video Web Sharing
Over the objections of some in Hollywood, agency says new recorders are legal. The machines allow consumers to record and send programs via the Internet to a limited number of other users.



Times' recent coverage.
Times Headlines

Sponsors in Tough Spot

TiVo Is at Focus of TV Showdown


By Jon Healey, Times Staff Writer


The Federal Communications Commission, over the objections of some Hollywood heavyweights, today approved a new generation of digital recorders from TiVo that allows consumers to record and send programs via the Internet to a limited number of other users.

The commissioners voted to approve the application from TiVo and several other companies — including Microsoft and Sony — for new technologies and devices that would allow customers to send up to nine copies to other people, but prevent the unlimited distribution of copyrighted programs over the Internet, according to Reuters news service.

TiVo's technology had been opposed by major entertainment industry groups, which feared that the technology would undermine demand for broadcast television and DVD sales.

"TiVo has always tried to maintain an appropriate balance between consumer interests and the rights of content providers," company chief executive officer Mike Ramsay said in a statement. "We look forward to working with the industry to develop new technologies that provide a great entertainment experience for consumers while protecting the rights of content providers."

The tussle began after the FCC required that digital television equipment guard against the "indiscriminate redistribution" of free TV shows via the Internet. Under this so-called broadcast flag rule, issued in November, manufacturers of digital TVs and recorders must install FCC-approved anti-piracy technologies on models sold after July 1, 2005.

The studios and their allies maintain that allowing remote access to programs would undermine free local television broadcasts, the market for syndicated shows and other important elements of their business models. Hollywood also fears that viewers with high-capacity, Internet-connected recorders would have less appetite for DVD box sets of popular TV series.

Seven of the other proposals presented before the FCC dealt with technologies for disks or removable memory cards that could be recorded on but not duplicated. Two others offered a secure way to move shows within a home network.

The other four — by Microsoft Corp, RealNetworks, consumer-electronics giant Thomson and TiVo — proposed ways to protect programs so they could be transmitted over the Internet as well as a home network.

After the Motion Picture Assn. of America raised objections, Microsoft, Real and Thomson agreed to limit their software in ways that bar viewers from sending shows over the Internet — at least for now.

Only tiny San Jose-based TiVo, whose technology powers a digital video recorder, resisted the studios' demand for this kind of "proximity control." Consequently, the studios have given tentative support to all of the proposed technologies except TiVo's.

Under several of the MPAA-supported approaches, viewers would be able to move recordings to laptop computers and other devices that they could take on the road.

TiVo, which had 1.6 million subscribers at the end of April, wants to give viewers even more flexibility: They could transfer shows from their recorder at home to any Internet-connected computer equipped with a special TiVo security device. Each owner would be entitled to transfer shows to as many as nine other recorders and specially equipped computers.

TiVo has taken elaborate steps to prevent programs from being intercepted, duplicated or forwarded. Still, the MPAA, the National Assn. of Broadcasters, the National Football League and Major League Baseball oppose the technology, in part because TiVo owners could send their security devices and recordings to anyone in the world.

"We think that TiVo does permit indiscriminate redistribution, albeit to a very limited number of people," said Fritz Attaway, an MPAA lobbyist. "When you multiply that by 100,000 or 1 million or 10 million TiVo owners, what does that do to the business model of local broadcasters?"

James M. Burger, who argued TiVo's case to the FCC, said the company could easily work with the studios to prevent indiscriminate redistribution and other specific issues.

TiVo controls every recorder and security device on its service, he said, so it could respond quickly to any improper activities cited by the studios or other copyright owners.

But "if the issue is, 'We don't want anyone to transmit free over-the-air television out of their home without our permission,' we have a problem," Burger said.

"TiVo is a small company," he added. "It needs to have the space to innovate. Obviously, the company feels very strongly that this is an innovation that does not harm content in any way."

Indeed, some consumer advocates are worried that the FCC might stunt the digital evolution of home entertainment, which is being powered by large storage capacity, powerful software and devices that connect over the Internet.

"This is the test case," said Alan Davidson of the Center for Democracy and Technology. "We're concerned about a precedent being set that stops people from being able to do the new, cool things with television that they're likely to do in an always-connected world."

One thing working in TiVo's favor is that FCC Chairman Michael K. Powell is a customer. "TiVo," Powell told the International Consumer Electronics Show in January, "is God's machine."

Times wire services contributed to this story

Does anyone know if KSHB HD will cover the HD feed of the olympics this year?

Josh Clevenger

Of course KSHB will have HD coverage of the Olympics ... Silly rabbitt, digital bits aren't for kids! :) The real question is will Time Warner in KC get their act together and add Bravo HD for the extended HD coverage of the olympics?

Originally posted by Eyedox
<snip> The real question is will Time Warner in KC get their act together and add Bravo HD for the extended HD coverage of the olympics?

As much as I would like to see Bravo HD, I don't believe it's fair to suggest TWC doesn't have their act together. I still believe that if you want easy and dependable HD in the KC area, TWC is the best bang for the buck. Although they are far from perfect, they provide the best offering at the moment, imho.

Does anyone know how Everest here in KC has handled Fox in the past in regard to widescreen/high-def. I know Fox hasn't gone high-def yet but wondered if everest has carried the widescreen format like TWC has. Also, does anyone know if they are ready to add the high-def Fox channel when it becomes available (hopefully in time for football).

Originally posted by fcsmith
The DVI and S-Video connections don't work for me either on the 8000HD. I compared the HD picture quality with the 3250HD, and there is little to no difference that I can tell. I was disappointed (but not surprised) that there is no firewire port on the box. Guess I'll have to hang on to the 3250HD if I want to record HD to D-VHS (though the firewire interface is buggy).


Craash or FCSmith,

Do either of you know if the coax outputs the selected channel on the box or if it's just a pass through. It's labeled as 'cable out,' but I haven't tried hooking anything up to it yet. Also, it appears that the composite video out isn't activated either. Is component the only output that is active on both of your boxes?

Thanks

Originally posted by StingWray
Craash or FCSmith,

Do either of you know if the coax outputs the selected channel on the box or if it's just a pass through. It's labeled as 'cable out,' but I haven't tried hooking anything up to it yet. Also, it appears that the composite video out isn't activated either. Is component the only output that is active on both of your boxes?

Thanks

'Wray,

I don't know about the coax output, perhaps I can give it a try in the next couple of days. My issue is I really don't have a good way of testing it, but I think I have a small portable TV somwhere I can drag down.

As far as the composite outs, I might be mistaken, but I thought the only composite out was for the "VCR Archive" and that feature was troublesome even on the E8K. It was only active when the picture in picture feature was on. I think I aslo saw a composite video in, but that was the only two composite video jacks I recall seeing. Now, those aren't that important to me, so I could be totally wrong, but I did give it a pretty close look while investigating the S-video thing and I think I did try the VCR archive jack.

I saw one of you say that the HD DVR service was 10.95? That is conflicting with the info I had been getting from TWC. They were telling me it would be the same 4.95 as the standard DVR service. Do we have anyway of confirming that?

Originally posted by kcjefff
I saw one of you say that the HD DVR service was 10.95? That is conflicting with the info I had been getting from TWC. They were telling me it would be the same 4.95 as the standard DVR service. Do we have anyway of confirming that?

I thought it was going to be 4.95 too. It was the store where I picked up the HDDVR that said it was not. They said the original DVR service was 10.95 but was later dropped to 4.95. There said the HD would start out at the higher level. I've sent a email to Mike, so I'll report back once he confirms.

Got this from Michael Davolt

--
. . . it will be going out at $9.95 for now. The regular DVR is at $4.95, but until the price comes down on the HDDVR from the vendor we will have to charge a little more.
--

Note, this is just for the service, the box is the same cost as all the other boxes.

Thanks for the info. That stinks. I thought with the price drop on standard that I would be getting HD DVR without an increase in my bill. Oh well, only $5.

Has he gotten any updates on when it will be available to the masses?

I'd expect the end of this month, or the first of next. Although if the don't find the s-video issue quickly, it might take longer.

The HDDVR coming out after the Olympics is very disappointing. I will probably skip picking one up unless they are out by next week for the public. Sounds like TWC is not really interested in getting the issues resolved considering the unit was released back in January for the test markets.

Originally posted by CycloneMike
The HDDVR coming out after the Olympics is very disappointing. I will probably skip picking one up unless they are out by next week for the public. Sounds like TWC is not really interested in getting the issues resolved considering the unit was released back in January for the test markets.

Mike, the unit released in January (November, actually) had the SA interface. None of the Passport units have been release up to this point. IMHO, the passport is well worth the wait.

This is the one time I've felt the need to defend TWC.

I would have to say that they have been working very hard to get these issues resolved. I've been talking to an employee who has said they have been working on the software problems hard for the last two or three months, at least. And I don't know who the 'test market' was back in January, but employees didn't get them for beta testing until the same day that Craash, fcsmith, and I did. And they put them out for testing knowing there are still bugs that need to be resolved. Distributing them to the public after only a week beta testing would be even worse.

Originally posted by StingWray
. . . I don't know who the 'test market' was back in January. . .

These used the less desirable SA interface as opposed to the Passport.

The FCC has spoken...Resistance is futile !!!!

New rules issued for the top 100 markets concerning a hard date to transition to digital....

This paragraph is from the article (see link below)

In addition, the commission also set deadlines for requiring broadcasters to maximize digital broadcasts. Since 2001, the commission has allowed broadcasters initiating DTV to broadcast at low power, but until now had not specified a timeframe for broadcasters to go full power. The commission set a July 2005 deadline for ABC, CBS, Fox and NBC stations in the top 100 markets and July 2006 for the rest.

http://www.tvtechnology.com/dailynews/one.php?id=2190

DirecTV Fox HD and Local Fox
http://www.nfl.com/tvradio/partner/fox

Looks like Fox Sports will be showing *nearly* all its games in HD. NFC is on Fox. I have DirecTV Sunday Ticket and HD package. I'm a 49ers fan, and I will be really piss when 49ers game come on local Fox and they black out the HD channel from DirecTV.

Is there anything I can do about it?

Thanks LiveLite for the information. Gosh this new FCC rules gives WDAF only 11 months to construct a new tower or modify the old outdated WDAF broadcasting tower. Either way WDAF is going to be full-power soon. Hopefully the engineer staff at WDAF can make this full-power and full-bandwidth FOX 720p HDTV a reality alot sooner than 11 months. :)

Originally posted by JulianHtun
DirecTV Fox HD and Local Fox
http://www.nfl.com/tvradio/partner/fox

Looks like Fox Sports will be showing *nearly* all its games in HD. NFC is on Fox. I have DirecTV Sunday Ticket and HD package. I'm a 49ers fan, and I will be really piss when 49ers game come on local Fox and they black out the HD channel from DirecTV.

Is there anything I can do about it?

If we end up getting the national Fox HD feed on DirecTV in their owned & operated markets you might still get the game on that alternate channel. I don't know how the NFL games on CBS were handled for the national HD feed on the "alternate" channel.

You could voice a strong complaint to Fox, WDAF, the NFL, and the FCC. You could also put in a request to DirecTV to carry the Fox HD feed in the same way they carry CBS in their owned & operated markets. It never hurts to remind them we want the service, especially when we know that WDAF can be counted on NOT delivering a full power HD OTA signal any time soon.

I would like to report that I was able to view KTWU-DT23 of Topeka, KS here in Olathe, KS! They had two video streams going. The main channel was HD and the second channel is SD.

Also got WIBW- DT44. It was a weaker signal, but I got a lock.

I will be making a custom UHF antenna specifically for WDAF. 590 to 596MHZ. If it works, I will post pictures and instructions on how to make the antenna.

Any news from Cheryl et al about HDTV and what FOX Corporate plans to do?

Someone should forward that recent July 2005 Full Power FCC ruling to WDAF FOX4 so that they know they are under the gun now. You may be able to ignore all of your viewers, but you cannot hit the mute button on the FCC.

Eyedox

...already did - She's out of town until Thursday so I don;t expect a response back. I will also call Mark Lipps at corpororate for his take...

Lipps suggests that locally, WDAF IS wanting to do something about thier ability to deliver DTV at full power...but are (for reasons no one seems to want to share) unable to do so.

However, it may also be that the folks over at WDAF perhaps see our line of questioning their current status as "adversarial" or in the minimum, "confrontational." With regard to the former; Mark suggests that it is possible that locally, there are some code issues or "other" issue of some sort preventing WDAF from completing full-power DTV plans. (FYI-He would not comment on the record) Although, he suggested that we could unite and partner with WDAF to help them (as a stronger local voice) overcome these issues...

I commented that WDAF's lack of response has led us to not be fully aware of any issues to which we can united and overcome. If WDAF were to simply open up and make us at least minimally aware of the situation they face, perhaps we could help get this moved along. However, Mark did reiterate Cheryl's earlier comments: no one want to make public and details of a plan that may not come through in the end. The last thing they want is to read tomorrow about something they said today - especially if that something may not happen.

So the moral of this story is that there might be more going on than we are all aware of - and perhaps we can make a stronger ally to WDAF then combatant. I'm not sure if anyone's letters, e-mails, phone calls, etc were intended to be combative, but maybe we try another approach -

Let's collectively put together a response to WDAF intended to gain support rather than question their current direction. Perhaps they will open up and provide a bit more detail and allow us to help...

Oh - BTW - he did mention that if the current "issues" remain unresolved and WDAF is unable to meet the FCC's July 2005 deadline, they are always able to submit a request for extension.

Any thoughts?

I was watching Cold Case last night on KCTV5 and I noticed a couple of times where the screen did some type of bright flash and there was a loud pop out of my speakers. Anyone else have this problem? I'm wondering if it's their signal or my stb.

I would offer that this is a ploy to convince us to give WDAF some leeway. To date, WDAF has never proven that they are worthy of our trust either by their actions or spoken/written word.

By offering up some unknown battle with some unknown enemy WDAF could be trying to displace blame from their station. I find it hard to believe that by uniting with them we will see a full strength signal any quicker than we will if we stay on our current course.

Further, I don't believe that if WDAF had a viable place to lay the blame (other than their own management, or FOX) and reduce the heat upon themselves they would protect their "enemy". This does not lend any credibility to the "code" or "government" angle.

In short, until WDAF/Fox either provides a Full Strength Signal, or an actual source/reason for their delay, I will continue to consider them a 2nd class station who is not worthy of my time and money - which oddly enough is what they seem to think about Kansas City.

Originally posted by js615
Lipps suggests that locally, WDAF IS wanting to do something about thier ability to deliver DTV at full power...but are (for reasons no one seems to want to share) unable to do so.

However, it may also be that the folks over at WDAF perhaps see our line of questioning their current status as "adversarial" or in the minimum, "confrontational." With regard to the former; Mark suggests that it is possible that locally, there are some code issues or "other" issue of some sort preventing WDAF from completing full-power DTV plans. (FYI-He would not comment on the record) Although, he suggested that we could unite and partner with WDAF to help them (as a stronger local voice) overcome these issues...

I commented that WDAF's lack of response has led us to not be fully aware of any issues to which we can united and overcome. If WDAF were to simply open up and make us at least minimally aware of the situation they face, perhaps we could help get this moved along. However, Mark did reiterate Cheryl's earlier comments: no one want to make public and details of a plan that may not come through in the end. The last thing they want is to read tomorrow about something they said today - especially if that something may not happen.

So the moral of this story is that there might be more going on than we are all aware of - and perhaps we can make a stronger ally to WDAF then combatant. I'm not sure if anyone's letters, e-mails, phone calls, etc were intended to be combative, but maybe we try another approach -

Let's collectively put together a response to WDAF intended to gain support rather than question their current direction. Perhaps they will open up and provide a bit more detail and allow us to help...

Oh - BTW - he did mention that if the current "issues" remain unresolved and WDAF is unable to meet the FCC's July 2005 deadline, they are always able to submit a request for extension.

Any thoughts?

I'm with Craash ... WDAF is trying to create a phantom enemy to take the heat for their local & corporate indifference to the KC HD market. If WDAF came clean and gave us 100% of the information on what their problem is and what they are actively doing to correct it, that would be another thing. But they don't even have the credibility to keep us informed of the situation. They think that telling us NO INFO, NO HD, NO POWER, NO IDEA, NO PLANS, is good enough for us. Well, it's not, and if you don't want to become a joke of a station in advertising revenues, you had better realize that FOX4. ProblemSolve THAT!

As a TWC customer I haven't yet jumped on the WDAF bashing bandwagon, but can someone clarify for me if those of us with cable will be receiving 720p FOX HDTV broadcasts come NFL season. If not, let the bashing continue!

While WDAF FOX4 is has been sticking with the old outdated analog television broadcasting technology all the other local Kansas City broadcasters have been moving into the new sharper picture and better sounding digital world. KMBC, KCTV,KSHB, KCPT, KCWE, KMOS, KMCI and PAX TV 50 have spent at least the last five years building new towers, downlinks and station upgrades to be in a position to usher in the new golden age of full-power digital television to the viewers of Kansas City.

I just do not understand why WDAF has not seen this new digital television world on the horizon heading toward Kansas City. Now that digital television is here in Kansas City WDAF is still unable to provide their viewers with a full-power digital signal. What has gone wrong with WDAF management and engineers to have not convince their corporate owners that Kansas City deserve a full-power FOX broadcasting station? While other FOX viewers in other cities are going to enjoy full-power FOX 720p HDTV this fall we Kansas City FOX viewers are going to be looking at a blank screen. Hopefully our local WDAF team will do whatever needs to be done to get full-power FOX 720p on the air here in Kansas City this year. Please WDAF turn on the full-power FOX 720p digital signal here in Kansas City.

I will not bash any of the stations for their efforts to spend the millions of dollars on capital improvements. They don't even have a market to sell off the analog equipment to offset the cost!

I made a UHF antenna specific to WDAF's frequency, 590 to 596 MHZ. I am now able to get a 'whiff' of RF in the form of a intermittent flashing green light on the front of the Samsung SIRT-151. The longest the light stays on is a full second. No data stream lock.

I made it from a piece of 1 by 2 wood. I drilled 22 holes in the sides at 3-13/16" intervals. Then cut 10 gauge solid copper wire to 4-1/2" lengths. I placed each wire into each hole. Then wrapped 24 gauge solid wire around each 4-1/2" wire strips. I soldered the wire to each piece. I mounted and connected a 75ohm to 300ohm transformer. It is a 22 element yagi set to just that frequency. Since I mount the antenna inside my attic, I did not need to weatherproof the wood and connections. An outside antenna will not be an option, even though I know that the signal will be stronger ouside and higher up.

Total cost less than $7.00 plus two hours work and set up.

All is not lost. I pointed this antenna at Topeka, KS so I can now get KTWU and WIBW without rotating my main antenna that is pointed toward Kansas City.

Originally posted by LiveLite
I will not bash any of the stations for their efforts to spend the millions of dollars on capital improvements. <snip>

Then you should have no trouble "bashing" WDAF because the effort nor the "millions" have been there.

Like many of you, I spent thousands of dollars doing MY part to convert to the new ATSC standard (buying an expensive HDTV), and I feel that WDAF is welching out on their part of the deal. I have no problems at all bashing a station which has little regard for the public it serves. I spent money, and I don't have a multi-billion dollar corporation or Rupert Murdoch helping me out. So that's where I stand, and nothing is going to change that until FOX4 gets their act together and finds a solution instead of ignoring it. If someone wants to feel sorry for them, that's their choice, but I don't put up with lame excuses.

Is KSHB going to fix the audio sync problem on its HD channel in time for the Olympics? It's getting pretty annoying to tune into NBC for its limited HD programming and having the picture and audio out of sync all the time.

Anyone else notice a red push on some CBS OTA HD content? I've run Avia on my set and am very happy with the results, but anytime I watch CSI on CBS flesh tones are noticably redder than all other stations.

Also, what's with the CBS volume being so much louder?

BTW - This thread is awesome. Really appreciate all the footwork you guys have done.

Originally posted by housecor
Anyone else notice a red push on some CBS OTA HD content? I've run Avia on my set and am very happy with the results, but anytime I watch CSI on CBS flesh tones are noticably redder than all other stations.

It seems to be a nationwide CBS issue. There is a lengthy thread here discussing red push and the CBS series: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=428022 I find myself changing my picture settings when watching hour long dramas on CBS. I am watching on cable but doesn't seem to matter if OTA or cable in terms of this issue.

Originally posted by Gojhawks
It seems to be a nationwide CBS issue. There is a lengthy thread here discussing red push and the CBS series: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=428022 I find myself changing my picture settings when watching hour long dramas on CBS. I am watching on cable but doesn't seem to matter if OTA or cable in terms of this issue.

Wow, I'm clearly not the first to notice. Great link. Thanks.

Audio levels are what drive me nuts. I should be able to go from channel to channel without having to crank it to hear an explosion on one station, and almost mute it to keep a whisper from making my ears bleed on another. Also, who can forget the Superbowl and Grammys when you couldn't hear anything during the show, yet they would BLAST the commercials so loud your neighbors would complain? Please standardize the audio levels already. Good grief. That's what full time engineers and control room operators are supposed to be paying attention to.

Being a TWC customer, the full power issue doesn't bother me at all. Furthermore, even if I were receiving OTA, I still wouldn't care about full power until there was even a hint of plans to go HD. It sounds to me like we are going to have another KCTV issue here. But KCTV finally came through in the end and we got HDTV Chiefs. God I hope FOX doesn't show any High Def Chiefs this year. I will be pissed if I have to watch a game in SD knowing that if WDAF got off their butts, I would be watching HD football. It's bad enough that I will be missing at least half a season of HD football, because I can't see WDAF getting it done any faster than December.

God help them if there is no HD at Channel 4 in time for the Super Bowl.

I thought I would change things up with some good news. Here's a great article to read, you may have already seen it:

http://www.sportsline.com/cbssports/news/nflnews081004

Quote: "CBS Sports announced today that Sony Electronics will sponsor the high definition (HD) broadcast of three NFL games each Sunday of the regular-season on the CBS Television Network during the 2004 NFL season. Sony also will sponsor CBS Sports' HD broadcasts of this season's AFC playoff games, including the AFC Championship Game on Jan. 23, 2005. By broadcasting three games each week, CBS anticipates that most American households will have access to at least one CBS HD NFL game each week."

DogOfMadness-Looking forward to KCTV5 DT-24 broadcast of the CBS HDTV NFL 2004 football season. Will we KCTV5 viewers get to hear the games in Dolby Digital 5.1 audio? :)

I'm sure this has been asked before but I couldn't find the answer - Should I be able to pick up any HD content from TWC via my set's built-in QAM tuner as an analog cable subscriber? I searched and couldn't find any channels. Are they encrypting the signal or do I need to subscribe to digital cable rather than analog?

Just a heads up for the Comcast customers...
I called customer service yesterday and I was told they had pushed back the HD-DVR roll out to late September or early October. He also said that there would be a lot of advertising when they do come out, so there shouldn't be any doubt when they actually do.

That's a shock, Comcast delaying something again.

They have given out some of the single tuner HD-DVR's (I have one), and have been waiting to see if the dual tuner would be better (especially software). I've had about enough waiting on Comcast to do anything.

Originally posted by housecor
I'm sure this has been asked before but I couldn't find the answer - Should I be able to pick up any HD content from TWC via my set's built-in QAM tuner as an analog cable subscriber? I searched and couldn't find any channels. Are they encrypting the signal or do I need to subscribe to digital cable rather than analog?

I'm almost positive you won't be able to get HD from TWC unless you have either one of their HD boxes (and sign up for the service) or the new cable card technology. You won't be able to get HD from TWC via your TV's tuner. But you can hook up a digital antenna to your TV and get the locals over-the-air for free. But to get TNT, Discovery, HDNet, InHD, HBO, Showtime, etc. in HD, you must subscribe and get a digital HD set-top receiver from TWC.

Craash and other beta testers,

Any updates on the HD-DVR?

Originally posted by kcjefff
Craash and other beta testers,

Any updates on the HD-DVR?

This was the last email I sent to my contact:

---

After using the HD DVR box over the weekend, I had a couple of comments and questions.

First, It's mine, and I won't give it back. :-) Second, the picture quality (live and recorded) is very nice. The fact that it records and stores the digital audio stream in whatever format it is broadcast in (DTS, DD, etc.) is very much appreciated.

Now a couple of things I would like to see fixed.

First of the S-Video has to happen! I use the S-Video port to send a very high quality (abeit, down-resed) 16:9 image to a Pioneer 510 Harddrive Based DVD-R. This gives me a quick and easy way to archive whatever I want - although audio is reduced to 2 channel stereo.

Second, the guide needs to have an option to be formatted for 16:9 screens.

Third, DVI.

Back when Alan was still with TWCKC, he spoke like this box might support external firewire/USB drives for expanded storage. Can you comment on this?

-----

The reply containted nothing worth sharing, other than he gave my email to engineering.

Craash - How is the TW software? Is the DVR a tivo-like DVR with something similar to season passes, suggestions.... or is it a time-based - vcr with a hard drive approach?

Originally posted by 4MUKC
Craash - How is the TW software? Is the DVR a tivo-like DVR with something similar to season passes, suggestions.... or is it a time-based - vcr with a hard drive approach?

Understand first that there are two versions of the SA DVR. There is the one that uses the SARA software and those that use the Pioneer Passport. The SARA units have very few features and have been out since last year. Ours, is luckly Passport based.

As far as recording You can select a show from the guide, and choose to record just that show, or the entire series. If you choose the entire series, you can choose if you want to record first run only, or all. If you choose all, you can choose if you want to record all just on the specific channel you are on in the guide, or any channel the show might be on. You can also add additional time "padding" to the start or end times of any recording.
Finially, you can choose how it is stored, i.e. keep until you choose to delete it, or until space is needed, ect.

No suggestions, which for me is not a problem, because I never liked that feature on my tivo.

You mentioned DTS, is there anything that actually comes through in DTS? I had never heard of that.

Originally posted by kcjefff
You mentioned DTS, is there anything that actually comes through in DTS? I had never heard of that.

You poor soul. :(

DTS is my favorite format. It requires a higher bitrate that Dolby's, but I think the results are worth it. About 1/2 of DVD's offer it, and maybe just under have of the stuff on the premium channels are encoded with it.

Thanks! I have been holding out hope that the new Comcast dual tuner would have much better software. The single (6208?) is terrible, and now that the dual is delayed further, I think it's time to dump Comcast. After having TW all those years, it's just not good enough - and expensive at that.

Craash, I haven't noticed anything encoded in DTS, but I can't say that I've been looking for it either. I'll start watching for that. Or better yet, can you give an example of a recent movie with DTS? It will probably be on again and then I can record it. Thanks.

Blade II comes to mind as one of the best DTS soundtracks I've heard. Keep in mind your Reciever has to support it. That might be why you haven't noticed it. :-)

My Sony ES receiver has a big blue light that comes one when it gets a DTS signal. My wife (ok, and I do too) call it "The Blue Flame". It's usually followed by ohhh's and ahhhh's.

Originally posted by Craash
Blade II comes to mind as one of the best DTS soundtracks I've heard. Keep in mind your Reciever has to support it. That might be why you haven't noticed it. :-)
No, my receiver (Denon AVR-1800) definitely supports it, and I always select the DTS track on DVDs when it's available. I just had never noticed it on a cable broadcast. I'll start watching for it though.

By the way, have you been getting any audio drop-outs or video artifacts (tiling) with your 8000HD? I've been getting some, but not enough to be bothersome. I'm extremely pleased with the unit so far.

Originally posted by fcsmith
No, my receiver (Denon AVR-1800) definitely supports it, and I always select the DTS track on DVDs when it's available. I just had never noticed it on a cable broadcast. I'll start watching for it though.

By the way, have you been getting any audio drop-outs or video artifacts (tiling) with your 8000HD? I've been getting some, but not enough to be bothersome. I'm extremely pleased with the unit so far.

I can't say for sure that I've seen any DTS on anything other than HBO. I am fairly certain I've never seen in on the TWC carried locals, or the 1400 Loop.

I'm not seeing drop-outs or other issues on the premium channels, (HBOHD, ect), but the MNF Hall of Fame game had WAY too many issues. Almost like back when we first started with HD in this town. I wrote it off to the first game of the year, but I suppose it could have been the box.

Originally posted by jeffdbs
DogOfMadness-Looking forward to KCTV5 DT-24 broadcast of the CBS HDTV NFL 2004 football season. Will we KCTV5 viewers get to hear the games in Dolby Digital 5.1 audio? :)

Yep, we're still set up to do that, as long as CBS does. I believe that all HD games CBS does has 5.1 also.

Our switchover to 5.1 is manually controlled by the Master Control operator at this time so hopefully they'll remember. I'll do what I can to make sure they do!!

Originally posted by DogOfMadness
Yep, we're still set up to do that, as long as CBS does. I believe that all HD games CBS does has 5.1 also.

Our switchover to 5.1 is manually controlled by the Master Control operator at this time so hopefully they'll remember. I'll do what I can to make sure they do!!

Thanks..............Go Chiefs!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

My understanding is that the Dolby Digital 5.1 format was adopted into the ATSC standard. Which is why you wouldn't see DTS on an HD broadcast. Besides, from a throughput standpoint, the gain in sound quality fron DD5.1 to DTS, while is noticable, isn't enough to justify the massive bandwidth requrments of DTS over DD5.1. I would bet that with (Hopefully) HD-DVDs somewhere around the corner, they'll (hopefully) be better than the "HD" movies on HBO/MAX/SHO HD, and have DTS audio. It'd make since.

BTW, Comcast is gonna put out software updates, not just to HD and HD-DVR boxes, but everything. It'll change the look of the guide and menus to -resemble- the current DVR menu/guide. The Big honkin' ads will be gone for the most part, and you may see a small banner ad on some but not all screens. The Guide will show, i believe, 2 hours at a time and have the picture in the corner of the screen.

Should be a nice step in the right direction....

Alright guys, I've spent the evening comparing my Zenith SS to the RS 1880. I'm in a 2nd floor apartment with a single window view toward downtown and the SS wins hands down. After some positioning, even ABC - the lone VHF - comes in at a solid 50%. The VHF 1880 couldn't even pull that off. Surprisingly, the reception is best with the SS pointing nearly straight up toward WNW.

But a very strange phenomenon: Any time I utilize an optical audio out on my receiver my OTA signal strength drops around 25%. Only optical - use of any other type of connection causes no loss. I'm using quad shielded RG6 so interference should be a non-issue, right? Any ideas why this is occuring? And more importantly, how to fix the issue?

Originally posted by housecor
Alright guys, I've spent the evening comparing my Zenith SS to the RS 1880. I'm in a 2nd floor apartment with a single window view toward downtown and the SS wins hands down. After some positioning, even ABC - the lone VHF - comes in at a solid 50%. The VHF 1880 couldn't even pull that off. Surprisingly, the reception is best with the SS pointing nearly straight up toward WNW.

But a very strange phenomenon: Any time I utilize an optical audio out on my receiver my OTA signal strength drops around 25%. Only optical - use of any other type of connection causes no loss. I'm using quad shielded RG6 so interference should be a non-issue, right? Any ideas why this is occuring? And more importantly, how to fix the issue?

Can you receive WDAF DT-34?

Originally posted by jeffdbs
Can you receive WDAF DT-34?

Fraid not, but no shocker. The SS is great, but it can't work miracles on a measly 1100W signal 13 miles away. Thus far the only people I've seen have any luck are close enough to throw stones at the WDAF tower while lounging on their sofa.

Originally posted by jeffdbs
Can you receive WDAF DT-34?

I was able to get DT-34 last night around 8:00 PM. Between 60-65 signal strength using my Dish 811. It's been about a month since I last locked onto WDAF.

You misunderstood me, Craash. I love DTS, but I have never seen anything on TWC that actually came through in DTS. My receiver always just says Dolby Digital. The only thing I ever get in DTS is DVDs.

Originally posted by housecor
Alright guys, I've spent the evening comparing my Zenith SS to the RS 1880. ...


Where did you get your SS?

Craash, I think you must be mistaken about HBO DTS, here's a quote from their site:

Dolby Digital 5.1/AC3 stereo availability -- Can I receive Dolby Digital 5.1 audio on HBO/Cinemax?

HBO Dolby Digital 5.1 audio is available on our HBO Eastern and Pacific digital feeds.

HBO's commitment to Dolby Digital 5.1 is significant. 70% of titles, representing major theatrical premieres are shown in Dolby Digital 5.1.

Sounds like they are in the Lucas camp of DD good, DTS bad.

Originally posted by jkhill
Where did you get your SS?

Sears at Metcalf South Mall here in O.P. $40 bucks though, which is rather steep. Let me know if anyone has found it cheaper elsewhere.

hehe... I now have my analog bedroom TV in my living room along with my HDTV so I can watch both feeds from KSHB OTA.

Anyone else notice that KSHB can now overlay graphics on top of the HD image? They are showing station ID at :15 and :45 past the hour. Maybe they will be the first station in KC to be able to do weather warnings with HD.

Good job so far KSHB!!

Originally posted by hdtimmy
hehe... I now have my analog bedroom TV in my living room along with my HDTV so I can watch both feeds from KSHB OTA.

Anyone else notice that KSHB can now overlay graphics on top of the HD image? They are showing station ID at :15 and :45 past the hour. Maybe they will be the first station in KC to be able to do weather warnings with HD.

Good job so far KSHB!!

Great job KSHB!!!!!!!!!!!! Dolby Digital 5.1 also. It is just wonderful work by the KSHB engineering team. Thank you guys and gals at KSHB. OTA looks and sounds great.
:)

WOW!! KSHB has purchased:

1) HD Graphics overlay equipment (the logo is too big, though)

2) DD 5.1 equipment (thanks Jeff, I didn't even think of checking that out)

3) Additional HD Master Control Switching Equipment (they can now show local commercials at the top of the hour on their HD channel totally independent of their analog SD channel) They are now the first station in KC to be able to sell local ad time just for their digital channel.

OK, I see what you guys are saying and all, but why couldn't I watch the opening ceremonies in HD last night instead of seeing the 2002 winter olympic ice skating? Now the ceremonies are repeated over and over today?

So, great job KSHB, but I think NBC really dropped the ball here. Why is it every week, CBS, FOX, ABC, and ESPN can bring us no less than 4 NFL games live (apparently, this year it will be more like 8-11) in HD, but NBC can't manage a couple weeks of live HD for the olympics?

I do agree with you. This is exactly what NBC did TWO YEARS AGO with the Salt Lake games. They have not progressed the technology at all. There are many reasons and theories over in the HDTV Programming section.

Notice I only said "Good Job KSHB" (not NBC). :D

Our local affiliate did more prep work for this than the network.

I only have free OTA, so I'm gunna take what I can get without TOOOO much complaining. :p

Here's something weird. I've got both Comcast and DirecTV, all day comcast has been showing on KSHB's digital channel the opening ceremonies of the Olympics in HiDef, DirecTV has been showing actual sports, mens gymnastics, diving, whats the deal ?
I'm calling Comcast to find out why I can't see any Olympic sports today.
Greg

I'm real frustrated. NBC advertises HD Olympics, and ONLY the opening is done in HD, and repeated all day today. Big deal! I'm very disappointed.

And, watching it on Standard Def, they keep saying "In Hi Def!". False advertising, seems to me.

I wonder if it's going to be this way all week.

I'm glad I didn't buy Hi'Def just because of the Olympics. I would be real mad. Although, this was THE event I've been looking forward to.

Yes - an NBC exclusive - OVER 24 hours of Olympics Opening Ceremony in High Definition - run in a continuous loop until 3:00 AM Sunday. What a waste of broadcast bandwidth.

Looking past 3:00 AM Sunday it looks like all we mayl be treated to is extremely delayed repeats of events - but in HD. I guess we should be happy they finally stopped playing the opening ceremony or should I say endless walk around the track.

It makes no sense that they promote their coverage as being in High Definition but then don't seem to be offering a single live event in High Def.

It will get a "little" better after 3AM, guys. The events that they choose to show in the 8 hour blocks will be shown in their entirety, from start to finish. No extreme editing, no puff pieces. Just sport in HD and DD 5.1, albeit, very delayed.

Each 3AM 8 hour block will be repeated only twice, unlike the Opening Ceremonies.

I too do not like the "broadcast in HD" promotion that they are showing on the SD feed. It makes the SD viewer think that they could see the same thing at the same time in HD if only they had an HDTV. Ewingr, I agree, false advertising.

I have Dish network and noticed the high definition pay per view channel (don't remember the channel number) had the NBC-HD feed. It was also on channel 148 (new channel that went on today) as well as KSHB-HD. So not only did I have the Opening Ceremony in HD, I had it on three different channels. And if I turned my attenna I could even get it on KSNT-HD from Topeka.

It makes the SD viewer think that they could see the same thing at the same time in HD if only they had an HDTV

Not only that, early on, the TitanTV listed the content as the same as SD. Even in links from the local stations. Oh, and it was not marked as HD.

albeit, very delayed.

I doubt I'll watch much delayed. Something about watching sports delayed that sucks. Especially after watching the news and already knowing who won the medals.

I wonder why they delay, especially so much? In reality, the SD was delayed from live as well. I understand the timezone thing, but it seems like SD and HD could have been simultaneous . This resulted in my being forced to watch it in SD. WAF factor, you know. If I'd waited for HD, and then had one of the all too often poor HD signals, I'd been shot.

I feel like I am in 1940s televison land for HD. Well, that may be a good analogy. We are very early in the technological factor on this stuff, huh...although, our frustration isn't with the technology as much as the knumbskulls defining programming, and falsly advertising it.

I did go back and watch the opening ceremonies again, to see them in HD, and one annoying factor about the programming from K.C. : they had that news advertising overlay through the whole darn thing. Even NBC didn't have theirs on all the time. I switched to watching the one from Topeka, but their brodcast got digital breakup quite often, and audio drop outs. (I'm in Lawrence, and have two antennas, one pointing each way.) So, I had to go back to the K.C. channel.

I guess I'll strop griping now. It serves no real purpose, and just makes me mad all over again.

For those watcning KSHB's OTA signal, have you noticed a great deal of pixelation when the olympic rings logo flies across the screen? This is also visible on very fast moving sports like high dive. In general, I've noticed still shots and slow movement look fantastic, but fast movement yields a very JPEG like (read blurry & blocky) look.

I suspect the signal is just overcompressed, but wanted to confirm it isn't my new set.

EDIT: I have found some other complaints on pixelation in the programming forum in other cities on fast movement and the ring graphic. Can anyone local confirm?

I saw it also on the diving this morning. I'm watching KSHB OTA.

Same motion pixels on the satellite feed. Nice thing about satellite HDTV no local station logo. Please KSHB DT-42 reduce the size, length of time and brightness of your station logo. Thank you from your digital viewers.:)

I really enjoyed the PGA Championship on CBS in High Definition yesterday on KCTV-DT. They had a mix-up in their audio so there was no commentary, just the sound of the club hitting the ball and the gallery. It was great not to have all the talk! I hope it works out that way today too.

TNT did a good job earlier with golf too. I just wish they would dedicate more cameras to it. It seemed like 1 in 3 or 4 shots was HD, the rest was SD.

For those watcning KSHB's OTA signal, have you noticed a great deal of pixelation when the olympic rings logo flies across the screen?

Yes, most definitely. I live in Lawrence, so I was wondering if it was because of poor signal.

I also see it from the Topeka Station as well. But, I get a lot of pixelation throughout the programming from Topeka. Some times more than others. I plan to try to re-aim my antenna and see if that helps.

Another thing I notice: every so often a completely black out on the screen. It lasts for a fraction of a second. Anyone seeing that?

Please KSHB DT-42 reduce the size, length of time and brightness of your station logo. Thank you from your digital viewers

Yes, that is very annoying. It looks 4 times as large as the NBC color logo. I tried to switch to Topeka, but per the comment above, pixelation was too bad to stay on that station.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ewingr


Another thing I notice: every so often a completely black out on the screen. It lasts for a fraction of a second. Anyone seeing that?

Yes, I'm seeing it here with comcast in Lee's Summit. Here's what really bugs me, Last night I want to watch womens gymnastics (two local girls) I have to sit and watch it on standard def on channel 8 (comcast), Luckily I'm off today and I can watch the womens gymnastics in high def (channel 183 KSHB-DTV) this morning. What a bunch of crap ! Whats the purpose of watching the Olympics in high def if I have to wait 12 hours and watch what I want in the day. I know there's a time difference, but come on. I wonder if it's a NBC thing or KSHB has no clue what to do to switch over.

I was crying about the same thing earlier in this thread.

The commercials are interesting: good to not have so many; but the same one over and over gives me nightmares at night.:eek: ....only kidding, but after a week, it may not be a joke.

Oh, actually, I gave up on HD last night. Had seen it all. I find the programming on SD better. Occasional interviews, etc.

Maybe in 5 years it'll be better.

GPS, it is definately an NBC thing. If you notice when they go to commercial they talk about how HD coverage is brought to you by so and so and then say, "tune in to your local NBC analog affiliate for today's current olympic coverage."

The good news is, this should be the last olympics we have to endure this. I read an article that quoted an NBC exec as saying they expect to be ready for the 2006 winter games to have the exact same programming on the HD channel as the SD channels at the same time.

http://www.tvtechnology.com/features/news/n_The_Evolution_of_Olympics.shtml

"It really couldn't be live since only five venues are wired for HD," said Mike McArley, director of marketing communications for NBC, Olympics. "We expect the 2006 Winter Games to be available in HD as the same program seen on NBC; same announcers and coverage."

I found alot of my questions answered here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=434456&perpage=20&pagenumber=6

HislonV, has a great post kind of explaining things. I understand things better now. I'm still not happy but I guess these are the growing pains we all must live through for hi-def.
Greg

Any Comcast users out there not getting your HD channels in DD5.1? The audio icon indicates a 5.1 signal but I'm not getting it...

Another heads up to Comcast customers, when I called to inquire about the NFL Network launch date they also said On Demand HD would be available within the next 60-90 days.

Jerm-I don't know if I'm getting my HD channels in 5.1, I'll check tonight.

I had a mini-battle with Comcast over the weekend (service problems with the analog station reception on the DVR box) durring my many conversations with them, I asked when they would finally turn DiscoveryHD on - the best they could say was - by the end of the year. They also said it would be October before the dual tunner DVR's would be available.

Now you know why Comcast sucks so bad and why most of us can't stand them. I moved from Olathe (Comcast) to Shawnee (Time Warner) and my bill dropped in half because I am in an overbuild area. The service people are ALWAYS there when they say they'll be there, guaranteed. The company has better HD and VOD, and good high speed internet. I have had one outtage in the last 3 months. My Comcast was down at least once every few weeks. I feel sorry for Independence and Olathe who are stuck with that as their only choice. :)

I know, I moved from the northland where I had TW - I'm paying more for less service on Comcast.

When they couldn't correct the problems (said it was firmware), I was offered 2 months of Stars for the inconvenience. Nothing on fixing the problems.

Oh well, I am putting together my D* order right now. Comcast will be gone very shortly.

Someone can correct me if I am wrong but didn't I read somewhere that Comcast and Time Warner are going to decide which cable company gets the entire KC metro cable coverage? I was thinking Time Warner would take over Comcast KC coverage while Comcast would get another Time Warner area in another big city metro area?

Maybe it was just a dream I had..............................:)

If Comcast were to get all of Kansas City, I would move. :)

I think it was in the KC Star a while back, when Comcast bought AT&T broadband they got a 50% stake in Time Warner's KC & Houston services. It looks like the current agreement goes until 6/06.

Here is a good article on it: http://kansascity.bizjournals.com/kansascity/stories/2003/12/01/daily5.html

A couple of others.
http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/stories/2002/11/18/daily16.html
http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/stories/2003/12/01/daily5.html

Jerm,

You are right. I thought my Onkyo had freaked out on me and was no longer able to switch to DD5.1. It does say on some programming that it is in 5.1 but no 5.1 singnal comes thru.

Whew, thought it was just me.

Brad

Since we're on a roll with Comcast, let me ask this. For the past few weeks, the PBS-HD feed which had been showing on Channel 181 in Olathe has been replaced by the simulcast of the regular KCPT feed found on cable channel 4. I called KCPT and spoke with Bob in engineering. He told me they're still sending out both signals...in fact he gets the HD feed at his own home OTA. He says the problem is on Comcast's end. I called customer service and was told they were having a problem and that it's been fixed...and the PBS-HD feed should be back. She told me if I'm not getting it, "there must be a problem with your box or something," and I should put in for a service call. As of last night, I was still getting the simulcast on 181, not PBS-HD. Before I call and request this service call, is anyone else getting PBS-HD on 181, or is everyone still getting the simulcast of the regular KCPT programming from cable channel 4? Thanks.

is anyone else getting PBS-HD on 181, or is everyone still getting the simulcast of the regular KCPT programming from cable channel 4?

I'll check tonight, but last I knew I was getting the non-HD simulcast.
Comcast support is so worthless.
They want to do a support call for everthing!

As of 5:00 Wednesday night, I'm not getting anything on 181. They must be working on it.

There is a digital channel re-alignment happening the 1st of Sept. the sheet i saw had the changes highlighted and shows DiscoveryHD as a change. So it looks like it'll be added at that time.

If you're not getting DD5.1 on programs that say they're in DD5.1, then go into the menu, select Setup, then Audio and make sure Audio Output is on advanced. That should fix it.

If you're not getting DD5.1 on programs that say they're in DD5.1, then go into the menu, select Setup, then Audio and make sure Audio Output is on advanced. That should fix it.
I think the moto 5100 boxes got a software update that reset the audio setting.

Anybody using dvi with the 5100?

OK guys I feel a little stupid here because I love to bash Comcast as much as the next guy but this ones on me. Last week I was watching something without using my AVR and it sounded a little weird so I changed the audio setting in the 5100s menu to -TV- instead of -Advanced- and this is what outputs DD5.1. Pretty funny when you consider I was swapping cables, putting in movies, turning on gaming systems and going into the AVR setup all for nothing.

As for bashing Comcrap I think its funny that on channel 181 KCPT-DT they are showing the analog feed and have been for at least a week.

Folks,

I have the new Mits WD62525 HDTV on order and it should arrive next week. I'm now getting everything setup so when it arrives I can plug it in and enjoy some hi def programming. The one thing I could use some help on is picking an antenna for OT broadcasts. I live in Olathe in a subdivision that is on the crest of a hill (close to 135th street and Blackbob), but my TV's going to be in the basement of our 2 story home. Can I get away with putting an antenna in the basement and picking up the KC feeds or is that way out of the question? Or am I going to need to put something in my attic and wire down to the basement where my DirecTV and Cable feeds go in?

Also, is there a way for me to buy an antenna and check signal strength before I have the TV and without having to sink more money into expensive electronics equipment?

Lastly, what would you recomment for an indoor attenna? I'd really prefer indoor over out.

If there are others out there who live in Olathe (or similiary situated metro areas to the broadcast towers) and have hands on experience with this stuff, please chime in.

Thanks

I'm in O.P. in a 2nd floor apt. and get all the digital stations in the Metro via my Zenith Silver Sensor sitting near a window on my media rack and a cheap pair of rabbit ears from RadioShack for ABC - the lone VHF station. I picked the SS up from Sears at Metcalf South for around $40 after reading many great reviews on this forum. If the basement doesn't work for you, I'd just place the antenna on your main floor near a window. Even that small amount of elevation should do the trick and save you the extra work of going all the way to the attic.

BTW, There is a known issue with the firmware on the HD boxes Comcast has. Not sure if it's effecting both the 5100 and 6200 HD boxes' DVI output, but Motorola i guess does know about it. Not sure if Comcast "knows" about it. But my head-end tech buddy didn't have any code loads scheduled when i talked to him last week. He did say that he'll forward the firmware info up to see if there's a fix coming.... I doubt there would be with the total Guide/Software update that's coming. Which undoubtedly will have it's own glitches.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sbrown02
[B]Folks,

I have the new Mits WD62525 HDTV on order and it should arrive next week. I'm now getting everything setup so when it arrives I can plug it in and enjoy some hi def programming. The one thing I could use some help on is picking an antenna for OT broadcasts. I live in Olathe in a subdivision that is on the crest of a hill (close to 135th street and Blackbob), but my TV's going to be in the basement of our 2 story home. Can I get away with putting an antenna in the basement and picking up the KC feeds or is that way out of the question? Or am I going to need to put something in my attic and wire down to the basement where my DirecTV and Cable feeds go in?

TI----It is approximately 21 miles from Olathe to the KMBC tower. I would recommend you look at an antenna rated at 75 miles and put it in your attic. I don't think any antenna would work adequately in the basement for DTV. Be sure the antenna is both VHF and UHF. Your antenna orientation will be approximatly 50 degrees north. Use at least RG-59 or RG-6 coaxial cable and run it directly to your receiver;be sure to buy a grounding kit. I live about the same distance from the towers, I have my antenna in the attic and use no amplification in the antenna line furthermore I don't recommend it. I have a 32 element Radio Shack antenna that does just great.

Also, is there a way for me to buy an antenna and check signal strength before I have the TV and without having to sink more money into expensive electronics equipment?

TI----You'll really need a spectrum analyzer to do it properly. Perhaps you could hire a TV technician to come out and measure your received signal.

Lastly, what would you recommend for an indoor antenna? I'd really prefer indoor over out.

TI----Any of the brand name antennas work in the attic, (i.e. Radio Shack, Weinegard, etc.) Just remember that there may be something in your area which could interfere with your reception. The only way to know is to try. However, you may be able to purchase a set top box receiver with a guarantee that it will work in your home environment, or your money back!

If there are others out there who live in Olathe (or similarly situated metro areas to the broadcast towers) and have hands on experience with this stuff, please chime in.

Thanks

An added bonus with an VHF/UHF antenna installed in the attic or outside with RG-6 shielded cable and a ground block is the chance you will receive digital signals from other cities. Here in Oak Grove I can receive KMOS PBS HD from Sedalia Missouri. Of course I watch and support my local PBS KCPT DT-18. :)

Nice job on tonight's CBS football game broadcasted by KCTV5 DT-24. In Dolby Digital 5.1 audio and 1080i. Signal strength was good for me at 99% on my tuner signal strength bar. Thank you KCTV5.

Jerky...

Great job on the 5100 5.1 audio fix. I was so close to calling comcast and throwing a fit.....