There is a digital channel re-alignment happening the 1st of Sept. the sheet i saw had the changes highlighted and shows DiscoveryHD as a change. So it looks like it'll be added at that time.

Did you see another channels?

NFL channel
NFL hd channel
UPN channel 29
Order In HD

From the WDAF website:

On October 16, 1949, at 6:00 p.m. WDAF-TV went on air as the first television station in Kansas City.

The 724 foot WDAF-TV antenna was the highest man-made structure in Missouri in 1949.

WDAF-TV "firsts" in the Kansas City market:

* First on air * First with videotape * First with color TV * First to go stereo * First to have Doppler radar * First to offer 24 hour programming * First to move from phone lines to satellite for the receipt of the network signal * First to bring weekend morning news and a 5:30 a.m. weekday newscast * First local television station to be linked to cable systems via fiber optic * First to bring a helicopter to Kansas City for traffic and news reporting *

What has happened to the leader of television in Kansas City? No HDTV. Digital broadcast made from antenna approximately 200 feet above ground level, and with 1100 watts power. (Compare to the antenna height of 724 feet and power of 22,110 watts when WDAF-TV went on the air in 1949.)

Check WDAF-TV TIMELINE (http://www.wdaftv4.com/timeline.htm) for more WDAF-TV firsts and the dates they occurred.

WDAF is an embarassment to Kansas City ... period.

I went to kctv.com and viewed their scheduling and, according to that, the Chiefs-Browns preseason game this Saturday is not in Hi-Def. Does anyone know for certain whether or not the game is in Hi-Def? Even though it's only preseason, that's pretty disappointing if it's only going to be in SDTV.

Saturday's Chiefs-Browns game will NOT be in HD, since it's a locally-produced game (not CBS network). However, tonight's Chiefs-Rams game WILL be in HD, since it's ABC's Monday Night Football. Pretty good trade-off, I'd say.

Brad

sbrown02-

Just read your post about antenna options for indoor reception.

I have a ChannelMaster Stealth in the attic and get all the digital stations beautifully. 62-1 was marginal, but I added the ChannelMaster 3010 Amplifier board and it seemed to clean everything up. (I think they may have boosted power also.(?)) I am at 163rd and Ridgeview. The antenna is mounted from a mast hanging up in the rafters and RG-6 is run down through two floors to the basement. I'm sure something larger than the StealthAntenna would be even better, but this fits well between the 'engineered truss' system I have for my roof.

The only channel addition on that list that i noticed was DiscoveryHD. I think the general rule that Comcast is using to determine if they're gonna add a local digital broadcaster is if they're doing anything in HD, they'll add them. If not, because fokes don't want a redundant channel that will really only have a marginal PQ improvement vs. real HD, then they'll hold off until they begin HD broadcasts. Which is why they have yet to add UPN.

As for NFL Network, Yes Comcast is getting it. Unfortunately, there hasn't been any updates as far as a time frame goes. It's coming, just don't know when yet.

I'll have to ask about the NFL HD channel and the, i guess would be, the HD PPV channel. I havn't heard anything in regards to something like that coming yet.

Anyone else have all kinds of issues with the MNF feed? Cable and OTA are both in bad shape, after a nice start. Any dish/directv user input?

It's looking good here via Time Warner. I haven't noticed any issues. What kinds of problems are you seeing?

Could it be the 8000HD? Do you have another HD box you can check?? How's that baby working anyway? I've been to the Time Warner offices about 2 times a week begging for one, but no luck. They still don't know when they're going to be officially released.

Last few minutes of the first half was freezing video and clipping audio. I'm using the HD-DVR, so perphaps that is the issue.

Seems to be much better currently.

Is anyone in Lawrence Receiving KCTA ABC from Topeka? I get good video, but no audio.

I get other Topeka stations, and K.C. stations pretty good.

KMBC9 DT-07 Over the Air MNF looked good tonight. I liked the small "tune to analog channel" severe weather logo. Picture was steady for me here in Oak Grove.

Originally posted by KC-Technerd
From the WDAF website:



What has happened to the leader of television in Kansas City? No HDTV. Digital broadcast made from antenna approximately 200 feet above ground level, and with 1100 watts power. (Compare to the antenna height of 724 feet and power of 22,110 watts when WDAF-TV went on the air in 1949.)

Check WDAF-TV TIMELINE (http://www.wdaftv4.com/timeline.htm) for more WDAF-TV firsts and the dates they occurred.


How much impact was the change in network affiliate? Are they still owned by the same company that made all the firsts? What about their status financially? Do they have the resources available to make this change or are they financially on shaky ground? Are they governed by the whims of FOX? A lack of local control?

I can't imagine any station that would purposely withhold a move the magnitude of conversion to HD unless there was some kind of overshadowing influence. After all we are talking the future of broadcasting and being a player in an expanding market.

All of those firsts are in the past. Those accomplishments do not govern there future. You can slam WDAF all you want. My guess is no one would like to make the change to full power HD more than they - provided they have the resources, and are given the go ahead from their powers above.

I think it unlikely time spent here deriding WDAF is going to make much difference. Nothing wrong with letting them know we have a group out here that would like to see them make this happen. I think it's much more likely to happen by expressing our concerns and staying pro-active in a positive manner. I think that will go a lot further than just bad mouthing them as a whole. MHO

All good points, jkhill - Besides, I'm pretty sure they are not listening too much to what we have to say.

Found out something about the PBS HD feed and why it's only simulcasting the regular feed right now. Turns out Comcast only has an agreement to show the simulcast, not the seperate HD feed. When the HD feed was on, it was acctually by mistake. They're working on getting things fixed paper work wise with corporate people. According to they guy i talked to, he said he expects things to be done with 2 to 3 weeks.

I have a Sony Grand Wega 50XBR800. Right now I have dish network. I am not thrilled with this service; as a matter of fact I think many channels (especially local ones) looked better with analog cable than with satellite, especially live sporting events. The dish goes out in bad weather and I can’t use pip and I don’t have total control of all five of my TVs.
I also want to upgrade my internet to cable because it’s faster than my current DSL and cheaper when you have digital cable. With cable I think I can run a digital and an analog so I can use pip, does anyone do this?

But I have not tried HDTV on satellite. They are offering a free oval dish etc to keep my business, but I would have to do another year contract. I have heard many people say that satellite might be digital, but they also do more compression etc and the end results can be worse than analog (back to my live sports issue).

So which is better for HD, I want HD and I want the best picture and most programming. I also want to be sure and get all the local HD signals and I am not sure how that works on cable or dish. Both offer an HD box for a monthly fee, is that for receiving over the air signals only or are all the HD signals pumped through from the original networks via the actual dish or cable. Or does the dish itself receive local HD signals in addition to satellite signals.

Thanks for any help here.

I had time warner and switched to dish network. I agree that the locals don't look as well as the analog channels. My main reason was that twc did not have ESPN-HD and they don't plan on adding it anytime soon. Also I can get more channels and pay less with dish network. Dish has a free offer and it is pretty good. If your a current customer you can upgrade to the hd box for free? Also the hd box gets the local hd channels with an antenna.

KCMO -

I may be a little biased, but I think that as far as HD channels go, you're probably going to get better support via cable. I know most cable providers will have the locals through the box, rather than have you setup a house top antenna. Now a draw back to that is going to be that it's up to the cable company to provide the local's signal. So you may miss out on a few weeks of HD broadcasts if the cable co. takes a while to add the channel. Broadly speaking, cable is ultimately going to be able to provide a larger number of HD channels than sat., but that's really a theoretical maximum. Another plus to cable is that if you don't want to put a box on all your TVs, you don't have to. You'll still probably get several channels with the built in cable tuner in the TV. One of the things i don't like about cable is that it seems that some companies (Comcast) seem to take forever to get new features. It's a pain in the butt that we keep getting a time for the DVR boxes to be available and it keeps getting pushed back.

As for sat.... never had it, probably won't, so i couldn't give you strong reasons to stay with that, i'll defer to the sat fans out there who will undoubtedly speak up after my little diatribe.

When I called to see when my contract is up they said it would be free. I called a couple of months ago and they said an HD dish would cost like 800 bucks. No thanks. The only reason I have dish is becasue Comcast would not carry the Royals last year, but I'm kind of glad I tried it so I can compare it to digital cable and HDTV signals. Right now, I would go back to anolog basic cable over dish.

TW has HD now right? When you go from dish back to cable, they give you a killer deal for the first year. Dish is like 55 dollars a month and DSL is 45, I can get much faster cable internet and one digital reciever and all my other tvs back on cable, plus an HD tuner and posibly a tivo for for 75 dollars a month for the first year, not to mention having my PIP back and having MetroSports, so I think it will be worth a shot.

So you you have to get an antenna in addition to the box? I thought cable would just pull the hd signal through the cable, even from local channels.

Jerky, I agree with you on Comcast, they seem behind TW anyway. That's why I was amazed that kcroyaljosh says TW did not plan on having HD for quite some time.

I'm still learning here, sorry, but what is DVR? Digital Video Recorder? Like Tivo?

KCMO,

Maybe I can help. Yes, DVR is Digital Video Recorder a la Tivo. TWC has those and is testing an HD-DVR. Hoping those will be available to the public in a month or 2.

I'm a TWC customer and by far, they have the most HD available in the area. They're the only ones with WDAF's digital signal, which one can't receive even with an antenna unless you're next door to the tower, due to low power. They have all the locals in HD, HDNet, HDNet Movies, InHD and InHD2, Discovery HD, TNT-HD (although a good portion of this programming is upconverted/stretched SD). They also have east- and west-coast feeds of both HBO and Showtime in HD. The big thing they're lacking is ESPN-HD. This is due to a TWC corporate struggle with Disney. The HD pack they offer is about $6/month and consists of the InHD and HDNet channels. HBO and Showtime are thrown in if you subscribe to their SD channels. Discovery, TNT-HD, and the locals are all free if you have an HD receiver.

As for cost, I pay less than I would with a dish provider. If you live in Everest territory, TWC will give you a VERY significant price break. TWC also has video OnDemand (a very nice feature) to set it apart.

Bottom line is that there's no perfect solution - you just have to prioritize. Personally, I use TWC for everything and have D* for NFL Sunday ticket and HD pack for ESPN-HD.

If you REALLY want a lot of HD, VOOM (a mini-dish provider concentrating on maximizing HDTV) is always an option, but has its drawbacks too. Lots of feedback in the HDTV Programming forum on all the providers.

Hope this helps.

Originally posted by squeak49
Discovery, TNT-HD, and the locals are all free if you have an HD receiver.


Are you saying anyone with a QAM tuner in their HD set should be able to pick up these stations for free if they subscribe to any services from TWC? I'm currently an analog subscriber getting my HD OTA and thought TWC encrypts all of its digital content. Is this not the case?

Originally posted by housecor
Are you saying anyone with a QAM tuner in their HD set should be able to pick up these stations for free if they subscribe to any services from TWC? I'm currently an analog subscriber getting my HD OTA and thought TWC encrypts all of its digital content. Is this not the case?

No - sorry I wasn't clearer. You must have an HD set-top receiver provided by TWC and service from them. Digital tuners within the television will not receive these signals, unless it's done with the new cable card technology.

squeak49, thanks. I wish Everest was in this area Lee's Summit/ Blue Springs, but I don't think they are yet. Does Everest have HD now?

http://www.agoraquest.com/viewtopic.php?topic=15921&forum=35

That is a link to the sony forums where I asked the same question and this guy likes dish.

Also a member on the KC forums mentions needing a DVI to get true HD, any thoughts on this?

http://kcskyscrapers.com/kcforum/viewtopic.php?t=3555&sid=8355caf08d4ea27b2d47a226031ac0f0


So I guess It's all about your equipment and your area's providers. I will just have to try Comcast HD for a while and see what happens.

He meant that DiscoveryHD and TNT-HD are "free" in that TWC does not charge extra above and beyond the regular digital cable subscription price (not part of the HD package InHD and HDnet). Also, TWC is missing the local UPN-HD channel (which DOES broadcast some HD) and does not yet carry the local WB network (which does NOT yet broadcast HD). I assume since TWC and WB have the same parent company that they will add it when there is a reason to (they go 1080i). I have no idea why they haven't yet added the local UPN-HD though! I love TWC and agree they have the best HD right now.

New to the board, I need some clarification once and for all. Is DVI better than component cable for HD or vice versa? Also, is either better than the other for reception of analog channels. Just bought a new HD set, and while the HD channels are amazing, the SD channels look like garbage. Everything is currently hooked up via component cable, and before I spend the $$$ on a good DVI cable, I'd like to know if it will make a difference.

bladesfan - Bottom line regardless of what cable is better:

Garbage in = Garbage out. No cable is going to improve the signal coming from your set top device. A better cable will ensure less signal loss and color saturation, but will not remove "mosquito" noise and pixel loss - both of which are significant artifacts from MPEG2 encoding/decoding found in digital cable and satellite transmission. The image you see on your new monitor is most likely a very faithful reproduction of the same signal that on a much smaller and interlaced tube, looked fine. Now, it is big enough that the flaws show. If you really want to improve the quality of the image take a look at some of the new scaler/post processors out on the market such as the DVDO HD. They aren't cheap but they do work some pretty good magic.

All that said - if you have the cash resources to spend the money on quality cables, you should. At short runs, the difference is not all that dramatic, but with longer runs (greater than 4') you will see the difference in luminance and saturation of your image. Bear in mind that each monitor employs many of it's own mathematical "tricks" to manipulate the image, so spending time with the Digital Video Essentials DVD will make the biggest difference in your picture. All that a DVI cable will do is ensure the image stays digital all the way from the STB to your monitor - meaning you have less opportunity for loss and you bypass additional AD/DA conversions; all of which can lead to signal loss - but not pixel loss. I stress that because SD images on your set will look crappy compared to HD no matter what you do. Even with a DVDO - you cannot create something from nothing. The very nature of MPEG encoding means pixels are lost...

My advice - spend some time with the built in picture tools on your TV (use the Digital Video Essentials DVD) and accept that anything by HD sucks!

My two cents - I hope it helps...

Bladesfan1972

I assume that you are on Comcast since you are in BS. If that is the case, I have read about and also have the same problems with the Motorola 5100 Tuner. HD looks exceptional, most SD with the exception of the Digital non-HD channels look like poop. Best fix for you in my opinion is to use your HDTV to tune in the analog channels that you want to watch. That is what I do at least. As far as quality differences between DVI and Component Vid cables, in my experience if you use good cables and both components connected together are quality, I dont think you would see the difference.

But, that last part is just an opinion. Nothing scientific.

I think the HD channels just ruined me because if there's nothing to watch on those channels, then I just turn the TV off (which will save some of the bulb life of the TV!!!). I bought the highest quality cables (probably spent $250 on the component and fiber optic cables), and another $150 on the Monster Power strip. I do notice that the channels in the 100's on Comcast (digital channels) do look much better than the analog channels however.

Thanks for the info guys.

CM

For the other Comcast users, do you get a heavy green cast on all the non HD channels? I was getting it with the DVR box and the HD box, and the tech claims it's firmware.

I guess it's a moot point, I have my tivo's, HD reciever and antenna on the way and will be switching to Direct next week. Comcast service & customer service are crap and they are not getting any more of my money.

I haven't noticed any abnormal coloring on the screen, just that the picture on the analog channels looks bad. I'm new to Comcast, just moved to BS from KC (where I never thought I'd say this, but TW was 10 times better!), and I've already got two neighbors trying to talk me into DISH or DirecTV. Only problem is, I'm a big MU basketball fan, and no Metro Sports on satellite is a deal breaker.

I know there is a seperate thread for this, but I wanted some input from the other local KC viewers. I have been watching the Olympics in HD and it is some of the worst HD PQ I have seen in a while. The pixelation and macroblocking (if that is the term) almost make it unwatchable during any motion, which is pretty common in any event. I have TWC (Pioneer HD STB) and have been very pleased with other sports programs (MNF, CBS football, basketball, golf, etc..) as well as other HD programming. I would like to hear about the experience with the HD Olympics from the OTA, satellite, and Comcast users.

KCSooner-
Craash asked the same questions the other night when the Chiefs game was on MNF. I have the Pioneer HD unit and have noticed no problems with any of the HD content. I watched almost all of the game and it looked great. Granted, I haven't watched as much of the Olympics coverage as I thought I would because it's not the same content as the nightly primetime coverage, but what I watched has looked very good.

Originally posted by kcsooner
I know there is a seperate thread for this, but I wanted some input from the other local KC viewers. I have been watching the Olympics in HD and it is some of the worst HD PQ I have seen in a while. The pixelation and macroblocking (if that is the term) almost make it unwatchable during any motion, which is pretty common in any event. I have TWC (Pioneer HD STB) and have been very pleased with other sports programs (MNF, CBS football, basketball, golf, etc..) as well as other HD programming. I would like to hear about the experience with the HD Olympics from the OTA, satellite, and Comcast users.

I have noticed the same thing but it seems to only be for the olympics.

BTW, on Comcast with Moto 5100 HD Tuner

I can watch something like Navy NCIS on another channel and it is fine. Yea, try watching swimming when they have a camera close to the water during splashes. Enough to make you sick.

Originally posted by bladesfan1972
I haven't noticed any abnormal coloring on the screen, just that the picture on the analog channels looks bad. I'm new to Comcast, just moved to BS from KC (where I never thought I'd say this, but TW was 10 times better!), and I've already got two neighbors trying to talk me into DISH or DirecTV. Only problem is, I'm a big MU basketball fan, and no Metro Sports on satellite is a deal breaker.

I only get that on the HD box, on the other digital box it's fine.

I moved from KC (northland) to Blue Springs and agree on TW being much better. I used to think I couldn't lose MS (Tiger fan too), but there are other ways. After 6 months of excuses and poor picture quality, it bothers me to pay the bill.

Originally posted by 4MUKC
I only get that on the HD box, on the other digital box it's fine.

I moved from KC (northland) to Blue Springs and agree on TW being much better. I used to think I couldn't lose MS (Tiger fan too), but there are other ways. After 6 months of excuses and poor picture quality, it bothers me to pay the bill.

Let me know what your Firmware version is and I will check mine when I get home because I do not have that issue at all. I think if your box was off when they did the recent push you would not have the most recent F/W but I have had to call them and have them resend it to me.

Brad

Your PQ problem on SD channels may be because you have the 5100 box. Comcast does have the 6200 boxes available (you've got to look at the bottom of the box to see the model number). The 6200 boxes addressed the PQ problem with SD channels vs. the 5100 box. Try getting the box swapped out. If you've got a green tint to your picture, double check the cable connects (of course) and then check your color settings on the TV. Every time i've come across a color tint problem, it's been one of those 2 things.

BTW, Local Fox is really a waste of time as far as being able to get it on TWC vs OTA or other cable companies. 480 WideScreen?.... please....

Originally posted by kcsooner
I know there is a seperate thread for this, but I wanted some input from the other local KC viewers. I have been watching the Olympics in HD and it is some of the worst HD PQ I have seen in a while. The pixelation and macroblocking (if that is the term) almost make it unwatchable during any motion, which is pretty common in any event. I have TWC (Pioneer HD STB) and have been very pleased with other sports programs (MNF, CBS football, basketball, golf, etc..) as well as other HD programming. I would like to hear about the experience with the HD Olympics from the OTA, satellite, and Comcast users.


I've noticed it in particular while watching the diving events. I changed my settings from 1080i to 720p and it helped a little bit, but not much. I was told that 1080 is better for the documentaries and stuff while 720 was better for fast moving sports, etc. Oh, Comcast user BTW.

It's not very good at all. I'm watching mine through a HTPC and a MyHD 120 card. I'm seeing teh same thing as you. I read some other threads on the topic when I the Olympics first started, adn there was a lot of discussion about it. I saw some explanations about the lack of support for HD over there contributing to the problem, if I remember correctly.

<<
KCMO: squeak49, thanks. I wish Everest was in this area Lee's Summit/ Blue Springs, but I don't think they are yet. Does Everest have HD now?
>>
Yes, Everest has had HD since November 2003. See http://www.everestgt.com/channellineup.php

I lost my OTA signal for the chiefs in HD monday due to signal strength, this was also occuring on the NBC station. Wanting to limit this occuring again, is there a signal booster you can add to your outside attenna to help with this? Thanks

Originally posted by Jerky
Your PQ problem on SD channels may be because you have the 5100 box. Comcast does have the 6200 boxes available (you've got to look at the bottom of the box to see the model number). The 6200 boxes addressed the PQ problem with SD channels vs. the 5100 box. Try getting the box swapped out. If you've got a green tint to your picture, double check the cable connects (of course) and then check your color settings on the TV. Every time i've come across a color tint problem, it's been one of those 2 things.

BTW, Local Fox is really a waste of time as far as being able to get it on TWC vs OTA or other cable companies. 480 WideScreen?.... please....

Just got off the phone with Comcast. They said they had the 6200 box in and it could be exchanged with the 5100 but prepare to answer dumb questions about your cable service. Just remember to answer no to this question. "Does the cable look bad on any other TV in your house.."

Will post and an update about quality changes.

Brad

Hey folks...just got my Directv HD TIVO yesterday and have a quesion on Fox. I know their power output is bad but has anyone had luck getting their OTA digital signal in the Lenexa area? I am at 83rd/Pflumm area and get NBC, CBS, ABC, PBS all very well but no Fox, Channel 50 or 62. Will a line amplifier help me out?

Cyclonejason93 - not to be one of those "check the thread" guys...but...there has been so much discussion on this topic as of late. Rather then rehash it all for you, I suggest you start reading from page 90 -or thereabouts- of this thread. You'll find more than you probabaly care to know.

Wow! Do we have that many pages already on this thread?! Aren't we a chatty bunch of windbags! :)

Cyclonejason93- Welcome to the Kansas City HDTV forum. "Wow" an DirecTV HD Tivo STB you have. Please let us know how the DirecTV HD Tivo does on recording Over the Air HDTV. Do you have an attic or outdoor VHF/UHF antenna? An in-line amplifier may cause some problems with the local digital channels you already receive. Let us know on your antenna setup. Glad to have your input here on the local KC HDTV forum.:)

Jerky, thanks for the info on the Moto 6200. I was able to get one yesterday. I was also successfully able to record using the firewire port to my pc. Suprisingly is works for analog channels, as well as HD. ESPN, Inhd, and the movies channels are all encrypted, so there's no recording of those. What I really want to be able to do is record football games that are on while I'm at the Chiefs game. Now I can watch the HD chiefs, as well as go to the game!!!

Jeffdbs-Thanks for the welcome! I am using an attic mounted Radio Shack med directional 50" boom antenna UHF/VHF/FM being run thru a Terk 5x8 multiswitch. All other major networks are coming in around 85 out of 100 signal strength with no inline amp.

TIVO HD box has recorded OTA HD just fine. Recorded Soundstage on PBS last night and it looked GREAT off the hard drive, no difference from the live broadcast. The box is really the cream of the crop for Directv/OTA/Tivo.

js615-thanks for pointing me to a particular page on my issue...I just hadnt seen anyone in Lenexa discussing it.

Originally posted by kcsooner
I know there is a seperate thread for this, but I wanted some input from the other local KC viewers. I have been watching the Olympics in HD and it is some of the worst HD PQ I have seen in a while. The pixelation and macroblocking (if that is the term) almost make it unwatchable during any motion, which is pretty common in any event. I have TWC (Pioneer HD STB) and have been very pleased with other sports programs (MNF, CBS football, basketball, golf, etc..) as well as other HD programming. I would like to hear about the experience with the HD Olympics from the OTA, satellite, and Comcast users.


It seems to me the quality has gone down hill as the Olympics has progressed. I thought the PQ early on was pretty good but even last night I flipped it over and thought the image was pitiful. Lots of what I would call blocking.

I mentioned in a different thread while watching the Chiefs OTA last Monday I switched from component to dvi input and was amazed at the difference in PQ, however the Olympics PQ seems to have degraded over its two week span.

kcsooner and jkhill-Agree completely on the Olmypics pic quality. Although I have had better luck on my HD Directv channel feed than the OTA...but still not anywhere near last nights ESPN HD broadcast of the NFL.

I recorded some of the olympics HD diving this morning to my computer (Comcast), and the macroblocking is horrible, especially when you are able to pause the video, or do slow mo. The recording software says that it is a 15.5mb stream.
I could post a screenshot if anybody wants.
When it gets that bad, you have to start wondering if it isn't better to watch an analog version.

I think the olympic picture quality hasn't really gone down, it's the sports they are showing now that pose the problem. Everything we are watching now is fast motion. The gymnastics and swimming weren't bad, but they don't move as fast as the divers and sprinters, so, the background wasn't changing as much it is now. They could compress the signals without as much notice, because the picture information from frame to frame was not as signifigant of a difference as it is with the faster motion sports, so there was less information to send.

FWIW, I was at Fox 4 this morning and had the chance to talk with a couple of employees, NOT from engineering and NOT officially speaking for Fox (just BS'ing). They said:

* Don't hold your breath
* Fox Owned/Operated stations like Fox 4 are not getting HDTV upgrades until the FCC Requires full strength HDTV in our market (see earlier comments in this thread about this...not due for a while here in KC) based on $$$$$
* Fox may ask the FCC to amend the law in markets like ours to further delay HDTV in smaller markets (i.e. no the top 50 or so cities, i.e. KC)
* No HDTV Fox from Fox 4 this fall, not even at the lower power they currently "broadcast"

While I doubt they are the last word on HDTV at Fox 4, they may have a better understating of what's happening than the "official" word we've received so far from Fox 4.

Perhaps a letter writing campaign to Fox headquarters this fall?!

Originally posted by kcjefff
I think the olympic picture quality hasn't really gone down, it's the sports they are showing now that pose the problem. Everything we are watching now is fast motion. The gymnastics and swimming weren't bad, but they don't move as fast as the divers and sprinters, so, the background wasn't changing as much it is now. They could compress the signals without as much notice, because the picture information from frame to frame was not as signifigant of a difference as it is with the faster motion sports, so there was less information to send.

I understand all of this. But my question is this: will it get better? Sports is something in particular many want HD for. but if it's going to always be blocky...I'd just as soon stay with SD. When it does macroblock, it's worsd thatn SD. I've been presuming it will get better as teh technology matures, but wonder what anyone else thinks.

Originally posted by Ewingr
I understand all of this. But my question is this: will it get better? Sports is something in particular many want HD for. but if it's going to always be blocky...I'd just as soon stay with SD. When it does macroblock, it's worsd thatn SD. I've been presuming it will get better as teh technology matures, but wonder what anyone else thinks.

From my limited experience:

Some of the Olympics has had this "blocky" image and I agree it is more pronounced in track, scenes of panning, and action. I still think part of it is the feed being provided by NBC or perhaps some local issues.

Watching last Monday Night Football with just as much action the PQ and in my particular case when I switched over to DVI was excellent. The image was crisp, colors good. It was all quite excellent.

So it can be a combination of things that come together to make up bad PQ. I certainly wouldn't let it put you off jumping into HD. I think it is more the network feed quality catching up with consumer receiver and display devices.

Originally posted by Ewingr
I understand all of this. But my question is this: will it get better? (...)

I believe the answer is "yes and no." Yes, the picture quality can be MUCH better for HDTV, but any time there is a lot of motion (especially of tiny particles, such as water splashing) 1080i can't handle it too well.

There is some discussion about why ABC/ESPN use 720p instead of 1080i. Despite some confusion, both resolutions are "real" HDTV. NBC uses 1080i, which doesn't render motion quite as well.

720p-with its progressive scanning-delivers smoother motion (especially important for fast-moving action, such as in sports) but has lower resolution than 1080i. That's why they chose it as their "standard" format. Thus, the Olympics in 1080i have some occasional issues.

FYI, you'll probably also notice these artifacts on HBO-HD and other like channels. Any fast and/or fine motion tends to give 1080i a fit.

So, no, don't look for this to improve on 1080i networks any time soon. But it should improve in time as the way networks compress and transmit HDTV (either 1080i or 720p) improves.

You guys are bumming me out. I was looking foward to hooking up HDTV to my 50" Grand Wega that I have had for a year but have yet to see HD on it.

But I don't believe I have DVI and it sounds like you need that and the programming sucks (what programming there is) etc.

Come on, please tell me that HD will be awesome and I will be glad I went all out on a TV ;).

KC is a top 50 market, probably top 25, why would we not get HD sooner? These TVs have to be entering homes around town at an alarming pace. Something has to give here.

KCMO -

A DVI connection is not required, just ideal. Your HDTV will have Component Video inputs which will support HD. The same rules do apply, though, for the Component Video cables that do for analog audio cables. An analog signal is susceptible to signal degradation. (For the record, digital is too but it's in the form of data loss.) So from an ideal standpoint, if a digital connection is available, it's what you want to use. This holds true for both video and audio.

Thanks for the reply.

But now after reading through other forums, I have found out that DVI input (which I do have) on my tv changes the signal to anolog. What is the world is the point of that? I would assume that this signal is still HD quality? Comcast HD boxes do have DVI outputs right?

BTW, I payed like 80 dollars for some really nice component cables which look awesome on my tv (it's connected to my DVD). I notice that DVI cables are sold online for under 30 dollars. I might have to just try both and experiment.

Woah, the atmosphere is headed downhill all the sudden. :D In hopes of settling a few nerves...

1. Yes, 720p is superior for fast movement, but a properly encoded 1080i signal still produces excellent smooth movement without macro-blocking. The Olympics from NBC are in no way a reference for 1080i PQ. Hasn't anyone in here watched CBS football in 1080i? It's breathtaking with zero macro-blocking. 1080i produces macro-blocking due to overcompression somewhere in the pipeline or multicasting - not due to some inherent flaw. [Taking a deep breath...]

2. While DVI is a purely digital connection and should theoretically produce a superior picture, many have found component cables to actually produce equal and in some instances superior PQ. This was displayed at a recent consumer electronics show (whose name I've forgotten). Keep in mind, everything is moving from DVI to HDMI and components offering DVI outs will become more scarce down the road - likely requiring you to purchase another HDMI to DVI conversion cable.

3. Regarding WDAF - It's clear to me there's little our small numbers here in KC can do to speed their move. They've made the decision to drag their feet on the digital conversion and as much as it pains me to say, I can't blame them. We're the 30th largest market and the law is on their side at this point. Also, I'm guessing they're in a poor financial position and delaying their move to digital as a way to keep costs down for now. IMHO - we won't see full power HD from WDAF until the feds use a heavy hand. WDAF has shown they're no longer interested in leading - merely surviving.

KCMO

I was a Time Warner customer for 3 years, first of all I liked Time warner. They were just getting to expensive for my taste. I had an hd box and a dvr box and just there analog service and roadrunner and they were charging me $120 a month. Also they did not have ESPN-HD and that was a very big sticking point for me. I have a intagrated hd tuner in my set and could care less if my cable provider carries local hd channels. Also I rarely watch fox 4 anyway and if I did I would watch the analog channel because there hd feed stinks. With dish network I got America's top 180 programming for $49.99, hd pack for $9.99 a 2 tuner dvr box that works in two different rooms and the dishplayer 811 which gets the local channels via the off air tuner. I get all of this for around 65.00 a month and I get ESPN-HD. The truth of the matter is after your introductory period for Time warner your rates will go up and time warner does not let you get those good rates again. Time warner makes you cancel your service to get the good rates again. When I canceled Time warner did not even give me a call and offer me anything to come back. I would consider coming back to Time warner if they had espn-hd and that is the fact of the matter.

Originally posted by hciv
FWIW, I was at Fox 4 this morning and had the chance to talk with a couple of employees, NOT from engineering and NOT officially speaking for Fox (just BS'ing). They said:

* Don't hold your breath
* Fox Owned/Operated stations like Fox 4 are not getting HDTV upgrades until the FCC Requires full strength HDTV in our market (see earlier comments in this thread about this...not due for a while here in KC) based on $$$$$
* Fox may ask the FCC to amend the law in markets like ours to further delay HDTV in smaller markets (i.e. no the top 50 or so cities, i.e. KC)
* No HDTV Fox from Fox 4 this fall, not even at the lower power they currently "broadcast"

While I doubt they are the last word on HDTV at Fox 4, they may have a better understating of what's happening than the "official" word we've received so far from Fox 4.

Perhaps a letter writing campaign to Fox headquarters this fall?!

First off, I cannot believe what they said. Surely they know the FCC has no plans to *require* full strength HDTV anytime in the next few years. FCC's 2006 plan is only about digital 480i.

I'm down for contacting Fox HQ. FOX says all O&O stations WILL be HDTV fall, but FOX 4 says it's not happening. We need to go above WDAF.

If FOX 4 is the ONLY FOX O&O in the USA that doesn't transmit FOX programming in true HDTV this fall, I will be really really ticked off!

Since everyone knows by now how much I just "love" WDAF, I'll not comment any more on their lack of attentiveness to their viewership. Awww, what the heck...who needs "Simple Life" and "The Bachelor" in high def anyhow. Most of FOX's programming sucks anyway.

The real reason we want WDAF to go HD is for the football. Specifically, everyone want the Chiefs games in HD. Maybe we ought to aim our concern over broadcaster choices to the Chiefs' and the NFL offices. But you know what - they don't care either. They know real fans will watch regardless. Heck, they still haven't sold out every game for Arrowhead this year. You can still buy tickets for Arrowhead...crappy tickets for sure, but tickets nonetheless. If we bitch about WDAF, the Chiefs will just say, "Buy tickets and come to the game - it's even better than HD!"

Comcast does their upgrade tomorrow!

BTW, the Motorola 6200 makes a pretty big difference in the quality of the analog channels.

Originally posted by GVbhunt
Comcast does their upgrade tomorrow!

BTW, the Motorola 6200 makes a pretty big difference in the quality of the analog channels.

What upgrade would that be? So I should ask for the Mororola 6200? Is that what they will bring or do I have to request that? They are coming out Sunday to install, so expect to see me here a lot in the next few weeks ;).

Sorry if this has been beaten to death, but I quickly read the last two pages and didn't see anything. I check this thread every couple of months or so to check to see two things.

First, does Time Warner cable have the high def recorder box in KC yet? And, do they have espn hd?

As soon as this happens, I will probably go back to TWC from Everest.

thanks guys.

A couple of us have the HD-DVR for beta testing purposes. I would expect them to be available to the general public in the next 30-45 days.

They do not currently offer ESPN-HD, or the NFL network for that matter. No ETA on either channel.

Hey Craash,

How's that box doing anyway?

My email to Mr. Barnhart:

Up until now, I have thought of you as one of the cities best spokespersons for HDTV. However, I haven't seen anything from you regarding the WDAF/FOX situation. If you haven't heard, FOX is launching HDTV on Sept. 12, but not in KC. We are getting left out in the dark again. This means we will be (most importantly) missing all of the NFL season, including the Super Bowl in HDTV. Please speak out and help us. As of right now, none of the average consumers (from AVSForum.com) can get any response from either WDAF or FOX corporate as to when KC's FOX O & O affiliate will convert. Please HELP! Let me know your opinion of the situation.


His response:

Interesting. Thanks Jeffrey. I reported Fox's plans for HDTV as soon
as they were announced, and then reported that station officials were
not guaranteeing that WDAF would follow, but that was more than a year
ago, so yes, I think we are due for a followup.

Well, not as good as I would like. I've decided it was responsible for the issues I was having during the Chiefs monday night football game. The second half had huge issue, and I actaully switched to the normal (non-HD) channel for the third quarter. So far, it works fine if you record a HD program, and play it back later, or just watch a HD program without recording it. I've had issues while watching and recording the same HD program. Hopefully the next update will take care of these issues.

I still would not give it back.

Originally posted by js615
Since everyone knows by now how much I just "love" WDAF, I'll not comment any more on their lack of attentiveness to their viewership. Awww, what the heck...who needs "Simple Life" and "The Bachelor" in high def anyhow.

Uh, Bachelor is ABC...not that I watch it... :D

Do we know for sure what WDAF's status is? The reason I ask is that I'm not sure if they are "720p ready" or not. If they are, then FOX corporate has, or will, install their HDTV splicer at WDAF on or before September 12, and cable subs, at least, will get it. If not, WDAF will probably stay 480p for the near future, at least until sometime before July 1, 2005. That is the date that the FCC will require all affiliates of the top 4 networks in the top 100 markets to go to their full authorized DTV power, or risk losing their interference protection. I would assume that when they go full-power, they would go to 720p if they hadn't already.

Of course, even if they ARE "720p ready" now, those of us who rely on OTA won't get a sniff of "24" or the Super Bowl in HD! (D* subs will probably be able to get FOX HD soon-at least in O&O cities such as KC. Hopefully E* subs too, some day.)

Sorry if I missed something - I hope someone can clear this up. :confused:

Brad

Originally posted by KCMO
What upgrade would that be? So I should ask for the Mororola 6200? Is that what they will bring or do I have to request that? They are coming out Sunday to install, so expect to see me here a lot in the next few weeks ;).

Should be adding more HD Content (Discovery HD and something else) and a little birdie told me that they were redoing their guide to be more like TW's instead of the crappy one they have now, would have channel preview and such.

As far as requesting the box, a guy here at work is having his installed tonight and I told him to make sure they brought the 6200 box for the analog PQ and when he called comcast to verify they told him that they would bring the old stock of 5100's before they started with the 6200's but they would note it for him. The way I got one is I took my old one up to comcast and made sure I got one before I left.

housecor - Yikes! I guess I missed that one...I'm lucky I can spell "bachelor"! But Bradtothebone did point out a good one in "24" - that would most certainly be worth wathcing WDAF; and I'm sure my wife would want me to toss "the O.C." in for her two cents.

Let's all hope Aaron Barnhart reports back with something new/better than we have had thus far! By the way - I'm not holding my breath...

Originally posted by housecor
Uh, Bachelor is ABC...not that I watch it... :D


Not that there's anything wrong with that! :p

Brad

Hey guys,

Bad news... I called WDAF today and actually got to talk to an engineer. Her name was Beth something. She said they are definately NOT going HD on Sept. 12th with the rest of FOX, nor do they have any plans to do so in the forseeable future. I asked if this was a decision by the station management or by FOX corporate, and she said it was definately corporate.

That Sucks! I was hoping to find out it was a local management thing, but I know there is no pressure we can put on FOX corporate to make it happen, they are just too big.

I was under the impression that WDAF is broadcasting a 480P 16:9 format when the network sends it. I didn't think they had 720P passthru equipment in place. I have TWC and I have noticed some of their programs are in widescreen. Since their signal strength sucks, they damn well ought to allow ALL local cable companies to carry their HD channel for FREE this fall and at LEAST upgrade to 720p for local cable.

As of 7:30 this morning, I saw that Comcast had juggled around its HD lineup, but didn't see any new channels. Anyone know about that?

Hey, what do you guys make of this article from January (you have to provide an email address to read it)?

http://www.keepmedia.com/pubs/BroadcastingCable/2004/01/26/362112?from=search&criteria=fox+hdtv&refinePubTypeID=101


"It looks like Setos is going to meet that goal. The network recently signed a $16 million deal calling for Thomson to install HD splicer systems at all 194 Fox affiliates around the country."

I called WDAF again today... (under the guise of someone who had never called) something fishy is going on there.

Beth Sweat is the engineering manager that I talked to. I didn't offer any information about myself and just asked if they had the splicer installed? That's it. She first asked if I was from FOX and I was compelled to say no (wish I hadn't, it would have been fun to play spy). Then she said she "can't comment on that" and told me that no, they are doing 480p only and that if they ever did, they would put something up on the website. She also said it was a decision made at the FOX corporate level.

So really no new information, just cryptic responses, and her tone was suspicious.

Did anyone see yesterday's Wall Street Journal Article "Flat Screen Market Fattens Up"? (page D1) I point this article out, not to create debate about projection sets vs. LCD/Plasma, but to call attention to some of Gary McWilliams' research. See excerpt below:

"...The timing also seems right, especially in Kansas City, where people are gearing up for the Chiefs season. The area is a top sports-watching market, having racked up a No. 9 prime-time ranking for the Olympics after being the top-ranked market for the Super Bowl at the end of last football season."

Apparently KC is not the small kid on the block. And to WDAF and FOX I add: WHAT THE HECK ELSE DO WE NEED TO DO TO GET YOUR ATTENTION??!!! ...the more I learn about all this the more upset I get at FOX and WDAF.

Originally posted by olathebob
As of 7:30 this morning, I saw that Comcast had juggled around its HD lineup, but didn't see any new channels. Anyone know about that?

Yea, they did the channel move about midnight last night but no additions and still the same guide as of 10am today. Of course Comcast is always slow about getting things done so hopefully in the next few days they will figure it out.

Brad

Oh, by the way, there was 1 addition that I saw, we got the oxygen network for women. Not that it will ever be on my TV....

DOM & TI - Two questions for both of you:

1. Both KCTV and KMBC are broadcasting local programming in 4:3 format with black side bars added on the up-conversion - What would it take to get gray side bars (or even better yet - animated side bars like ESPN HD uses) for 4:3 programming that is up-converted? I know 30 minutes here and there of the black sides bars won't kill me, but over longer periods of time I am concerned about burn-in.

2. Jeffdbs has asked about this before and I'll ask about it again: What would it take to get the broadcaster "bugs" removed from the lower right corner of the screen? Perhaps you could occasionally pop them up for a few seconds then have them disappear. Logo bugs aren't an issue on older tube sets, but for the HD community with newer sets, burn-in is a concern. If the "bugs" stay up for the duration of one or two hour shows, it will have an impact over time.

Does anyone know if we have a KSHB contact listening in on the thread?

For all of you D* people out there, I just found this on WDAF's website:


How can I get a waiver to receive FOX 4 through my satellite provider?

You can request a waiver to receive FOX. All waiver requests must be received, in writing, via U.S. Post Office in care of General Manager Cheryl McDonald in care of the address below.

Please include name, address, city, state, zip code, phone number with area code, satellite carrier, and reason for waiver request.

No fax or e-mail requests may be considered.


So, you guys should all be able to get FOX HD if you hurry.

Has anyone checked WDAF-DT for the local "bug" that overlaps out of the 4:3 "safe area"? I was going to check tonight, but thought maybe somebody else had already seen it.

This would tell us if they at least have the splicer installed.

Considering there are 105 pages of this thread, and I don't have unlimited time to browse them.... :)

Has anyone summarized what HDTV reception is like in Lawrence, KS? More specifically, southwest Lawrence?

Thanks,
-Jason

Originally posted by kcjefff
For all of you D* people out there, I just found this on WDAF's website:


How can I get a waiver to receive FOX 4 through my satellite provider?

You can request a waiver to receive FOX. All waiver requests must be received, in writing, via U.S. Post Office in care of General Manager Cheryl McDonald in care of the address below.

Please include name, address, city, state, zip code, phone number with area code, satellite carrier, and reason for waiver request.

No fax or e-mail requests may be considered.


So, you guys should all be able to get FOX HD if you hurry.

If I understand this process correctly, the waiver for FOX-HD (either NY or LA) SHOULD be automatic for any viewer in a FOX O&O city (as it is for CBS O&O's on DISH, and, I believe, D*). I think the question above refers to the required waiver to receive WDAF as a distant local. In other words, when FOX-HD becomes available on D*, all you should have to do is call D* up and tell them you want it (and want to pay for it!).

Brad

Originally posted by jboehle
Considering there are 105 pages of this thread, and I don't have unlimited time to browse them.... :)

Has anyone summarized what HDTV reception is like in Lawrence, KS? More specifically, southwest Lawrence?

Thanks,
-Jason

Not that I've seen.

I am in Northwest Lawrence (about 6 blocks North of 6th st.-->Monteray Way). and I have antennas in my attic.

I do not have a VHF antenna, do don't get ABC out of KC.
I get ABC out of Topeka, but no sound on my equipment for some reason.

I get CBS and NBC very good from both cities; I get 4 sub channels of PBS from Washburn in Topeka; I get 2 from PBS in K.C. I get a few other digital stations, but don't recall what they are...uh...Spot is one.

There is a post earlier in this thread that was from a guy that is just south of Clinton Parkway that is getting the same stations I believe (He recently moved from Lawrence).

ok now.....
i'm a bit upset DiscoveryHD wasn't added, so i'll have to ask about that one.

As far as new channels go (non-HD), Oxygen was added a month ago, DIY and FineLiving are in there as well as MTV Hits (added last night). Just got word today NFL Network will be with us as of this Friday barring any technical problems. The software update is another one i'll have to check on.

As far as getting a 6200 HD box vs the 5100. If you're getting things newly installed, then you'd be better off if you let the tech install whatever he brings, and if it's a 5100, just take it to the office and exchange it out for the 6200.

I myself have talked to Beth in engineering and she sounds like a very good engineer who would like to have the equipment to broadcast full-power FOX 720p HDTV to the WDAF television viewers. We should try to remember that good things do happen quickly when a Kansas City television station gets the go-ahead to broadcast full-power, full-bandwidth HDTV.

I am trying to get a waiver to see FOX 720p HDTV programming by satellite but truthfully I would rather see FOX 720p HDTV free on Over the Air WDAF DT-34. My family and I want and do support our local television stations and we enjoy the local news on our HDTV before and after primetime HDTV network programming.

I will keep trying to receive WDAF DT-34 but for now I only get a blank screen. If WDAF could just raise their digital stick higher and increase the power up a few more watts for now I am sure alot of us with good antennas could receive WDAF here in the Kansas City metro area. I am still very thankful to KMBC, KCTV, KCPT, KSHB, KCWE, KMCI, KSMO and KPXE for digital television here in Kansas City.:)

Originally posted by jboehle
Considering there are 105 pages of this thread, and I don't have unlimited time to browse them.... :)

Has anyone summarized what HDTV reception is like in Lawrence, KS? More specifically, southwest Lawrence?

Thanks,
-Jason

I just moved away from Southwest Lawrence (I was previously at what can best be approximated as 27th and Wakarusa). I was able to reliably receive the following using two attic-mounted, preamped, 4-bay bowtie style antennae -- one for KC, one for Topeka:

Kansas City Affiliates:

KCTV-DT (CBS) 5.1
KMBC-DT (ABC) 9.1
KCPT-DT (PBS) 19.1 19.2, 19.3
KSHB-DT (NBC) 41.1
KCWE-DT (UPN) 29.1
KMCI-DT (IND) 38.1
KSMO-DT (WB) 62.1

Topeka Affiliates:

KTWU-DT (CBS) 11.1, 11.2
WIBW-DT (CBS) 13.1

I think with additional tweaking, I would have been able to reliably receive KSNT-DT (NBC) 27.1 and KTKA-DT (ABC) 49.1, as these came well whenever it was cloudy. I was not able to get KC PAX no matter what I tried.

I'm near Bonner Springs now, and amazingly, I can still receive everything that I was reliably receiving in Lawrence except for WIBW-DT. I guess it was a good trade since I can now get WDAF-DT (FOX) 4.1 out of KC.

Hey EVERYONE! Good news, if you turn to WDAF-DT right now on TWC, you will see they are outputting 720p and DD 5.1. WE WILL HAVE HD FOX!!!

foxeng and others on the FOX master thread tipped me off on what to look for and WDAF made the switch while I was watching that retarded show. But it was worth it! You will be able to see it during FOX primetime from here on out, I think.

Check out the thread if you haven't already:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4287649#post4287649

Will we have 'over the air' Fox?

Good news kcjeff on WDAF possibly being 720p on the Time Warner Cable system. I did swing my antenna rotor around tonight to see if their are any new digital signals on the horizon tonight. KQTV DT-53 ABC from St Joseph Missouri is now showing up here in Oak Grove Missouri and the signal locks in my guide. Of course I removed this digital station from my guide because KMBC9 ABC DT-07 is the "King" of ABC OTA HDTV programming.

Thinking that I can now receive a good signal from St Joesph Missouri I pointed my antenna at the WDAF tower. Still no signal to lock onto but and this is exciting for me in that my Over the Air receiver does flash a low reading once in awhile. If WDAF is providing an OTA 720p signal then by my readings the Over the Air signal is probably a little stronger in strength. :D Still trying..............................

Roger, yes and no. By your location, not a chance. You would pretty much have to be within 10 miles and have line of sight with the antenna to get it.
But, yes, it looks like WDAF has been trying to conceal their plans to go HD.

I would speculate it was because:

a) they were worried things would not go smoothly (we could still possibly see a press release stating their intention to go HD before FOX's go live).

b) they are hesitant to announce that they have an HD signal at 1.1kw (all of the people who get HD OTA would feel slighted because basically, you have to subscribe to cable to get WDAF's Digital signal)

Can't say for sure their intentions.

Also, everyone, keep in mind that we should not see any actual 720p content until football on Sept. 12th. We should be seeing the 720p datastream, though, with the 480p content upconverted and remixed with DD 5.1 sound.

Well I got the line of sight to the WDAF tower and I judge the distance around thirty miles. Hopefully we Over the Air people can get some help on WDAF end with a boost in digital signal strenth or raising the WDAF digital stick. Thinking positive here in eastern Jackson County.

We'll see, I am sure things will change in the future... I can't bring myself to say NEAR future, but future.

Just got this update from KSMO WB 62 regarding WB HD:

"We will not meet the kickoff, but looking for mid October for completion.

We are presently working on the fiber to the transmitter. Most of the
equipment is installed and ready to go.

Thanks for your interest.

Peace,
Bob Schneider CE"

Also, regarding WDAF FOX 4, Aaron Barnhart will be doing an article in the KCStar soon about their low power situation.

Thanks hdtimmy on the WB62 DT-47 HDTV news. Almost there Kansas City with WB and hopefully FOX HDTV coming on-line with full-power, full bandwidth Over the Air digitial HDTV. The new golden age of broadcast HDTV television is growing stronger here in Kansas City. Network programming, sports and NFL football looks so much better in HDTV.

For all who are interested, the HD-DVR's are now available. Pricing is $9.95/mo, $5.00 more than the SD-DVR's. They are also including the HDNet and INHD chanels with the HD-DVR's.

Just got mine setup this afternoon! Enjoy!

For any one in Lawrence on Sunflower cable, I e-mailed Sunflower and asked them about when they would be adding WDAF digital/HD. Their response was they had not been notified that WDAF was going HD yet but they would check into it and work to add it to the cable lineup when they are ready to go HD. Since we are getting conflicting info on when WDAF is going HD who knows when they will add it. We shall see.

Long time follower of this thread. Thanks for all the good information.

I just got off the phone with a Time Warner rep, and she said the HD-DVR boxes will be available next Tuesday. Maybe that is what Jayhawk meant but I wasn't sure what cable company he was referring to.

Today was the day, comcast was thrown out and Direct installed. Other than a few issues with the installer (I know they are contractors), pretty happy. My PQ is much better, got to watch American Chopper in HD, and replaced the standard Tivo's with dual tuner models - which is really nice.

I gave the HD antenna it's first go (ChannelMaster Stealth w/amp), I haven't been able to get it to lock KCTV5's digital - might need to do some tweaking, but I was getting 100% on KMBC - MNF should look good.

Originally posted by js615
DOM & TI - Two questions for both of you:

1. Both KCTV and KMBC are broadcasting local programming in 4:3 format with black side bars added on the up-conversion - What would it take to get gray side bars (or even better yet - animated side bars like ESPN HD uses) for 4:3 programming that is up-converted? I know 30 minutes here and there of the black sides bars won't kill me, but over longer periods of time I am concerned about burn-in.

2. Jeffdbs has asked about this before and I'll ask about it again: What would it take to get the broadcaster "bugs" removed from the lower right corner of the screen? Perhaps you could occasionally pop them up for a few seconds then have them disappear. Logo bugs aren't an issue on older tube sets, but for the HD community with newer sets, burn-in is a concern. If the "bugs" stay up for the duration of one or two hour shows, it will have an impact over time.



It would be easy for me to put gray on the side (various colors are an option, too!!). I've been thinking of doing it anyway. So I'll do it tonight during the Chiefs game and see what comments we get.

Logo bugs are a management choice. But as far as the bug on KCTV I wouldn't worry about burn-in. The video level of ours is intentionally low for that reason. The CRT monitors we have (that are always on KCTV of course!!) show no sign of phospher burn because of the bug.

As an aside, altho I usually only comment on KCTV....I'm one of those lucky (??) few who can pick up WDAF-DT OTA. I noticed sometime earlier this summer that they began upconverting their NTSC to 720P instead of 480P as earlier.

Neural96,
Sorry for the confusion. I was referring to Time Warner in KC. I had mine delivered because there was some confusion about whether or not they had them in he stores, but I talked to a friend who went to the store on 119th and Metcalf, and was able to get one on the spot.

Communication within Time Warner is horrible. For the last week, I've been getting conflicting stories about when they'd be available, even making several trips to the store only to leave empty handed.

They DO have them at the stores. Don't try to call because you'll get someone in a call center who doesn't know what's happening at the local stores.

Good luck!

DogOfMadness- The gray bars are a nice touch and look good. The sidebar colors match the Dallas Cowboys uniforms :eek: Just kidding. I would love to see the sidebars used more during 4X3 programming. How about a very low light moving KCTV5 DT logo on top of some light blue background. Is it possible to have information in the sidebars during the local news (weather warnings, KCTV5.com information or a local news ticker)?

What I really would love to see here on our Kansas City local newscast on the digital channels is to move the 4X3 picture all the way to the left of the 16X9 picture and give us viewers two more studio camera shots on the right side of the picture. Like a picture in a picture idea with maybe the radar screen, live camera shot or a picture of the crews in the field getting ready for a live shot on the 4x3 side of the picture-making the digital channel alot more fun to watch than the analog channel. I am always trying to think of new ideas to help the digital broadcast channels get more attention here in Kansas City.:)

jeffdbs,
All very interesting ideas! However, at this time we have no equipment in place to do any of that.

Craash,
Have you (or anyone else with an HD DVR) tried to record shows on the INHD or HDNet channels? When I do, it's telling me that these are "Unrecordable Channels." It will let me pause, rewind, etc., but not record. I'm hoping that this is a temporary glitch and not something mandated by those networks.

What's the point of having a DVR if you can't record some of the channels???

The NFL network in now on Comcast channel 180.

That's bad news Jayhawk, they may be making use of the "broadcast flag" that is not supposed to let recording take place to prevent piracy. I hope that's not the case, otherwise, what's the point?

I hear a lot of people complaining about comcast, but I am getting jealous, don't you guys now have both NFL network and ESPN HD?

Well, at least we are getting dual tuner HD DVRs now.

Originally posted by Jayhawk
Craash,
Have you (or anyone else with an HD DVR) tried to record shows on the INHD or HDNet channels? When I do, it's telling me that these are "Unrecordable Channels." It will let me pause, rewind, etc., but not record. I'm hoping that this is a temporary glitch and not something mandated by those networks.

What's the point of having a DVR if you can't record some of the channels???

My InHD/HDNet channels were available the first two days I had the box, but after they they were not. I haven't checked in the last week or so to see if they are back.

Jayhawk,

Thanks for the heads-up on the HD-DVR being available. I went and picked mine up at lunch at 119th & Metcalf. They were running out quick - I think there were only 3 left when I got there, and there was a pretty good sized line.

I overheard they should be getting a large shipment in on Tuesday and that's when they'll start to market them. I was in there while everyone was swapping out their boxes for HD-DVR and wondering who all were AVS'ers and what their handles could be!

As for the copy protection, for testing purposes, I've set up to record the MLB game on InHD tonight and all "Andy Richter Controls the Universe" (the funniest show EVER!) episodes on HD-Net, and it didn't say I wasn't allowed. I'll keep you all posted as to how that goes.

Once TWC finally gets ESPN-HD and NFL Sunday Ticket, my world will be complete!

Squeak,
Mine wouldn't even let me schedule a recording. When I tried, it said that it was an unrecordable channel. I think it only gave me the option of cancelling or viewing the channel. If you were able to schedule a recording, I'm sure it'll work.

Anyone else have the problem I'm having?

Craash, they're including the HDNet and INHD channels as part of the HD-DVR package at no charge, so if you're not getting them, give TW a call.

I just got mine, but I haven't yet a chance to test it, and probably won't until I get back from the lake. In fact, it is still in the box.

One thing for the Comcast people waiting on DiscoveryHD, when I was closing up my account and talking to the CSR and a "supervisor/manager" (think he was) about the reason I was leaving, I did mention the slow pace of new HD's and Discovery in particular. He said that it would be soon they were installing some equipment to get it online. Don't know what would need to be installed, but that's what he said.

KCJeff - don't be jealous, had both and TW is much better in the KC market.

My wife just picked up the TW HD-DVR box and the rep told her that the NFL is blocking (copy protection or unable to record - not sure which) the games from being recorded. I'm curious if any beta testers have had issues recording MNF preseason games.

They can NOT flag stuff you can get OTA. This would include MNF. I recorded the Chiefs' MNF game both via the DVR and also OTA with a HD PC card.

re: Unable to record from INHD or HDNet channels

My mistake. The channels had been turned off, so when I tried to record the show it was at least smart enough to prevent me from recording two hours of "Subscription Service - Call Time Warner to order."

I called to have them turn these channels back on, and the guy I got knew nothing about the free HD tier with the HD-DVR's. After some "convincing" he got ahold of someone who was able to confirm the package and turned them on for me.

If you're not getting the INHD and HDNet channels free with the HD-DVR, call Time Warner and make sure that they get you setup!

After a quick glance, here are a few observations about the TWC HD-DVR:
- If we didn't mention it, it's the Scientific Atlanta 8000 HD. There's documentation at http://www.scientificatlanta.com.
- 150 GB hard drive (well done, TWC!!) = ~14 hours HD programming or ~100 hours SD programming
- Was able to record InHD fine - it looked great
- Live TV control worked fine.
- S-Video is inactive when using HD Component out (I don't have DVI input on my TV). Also, and "VCR Archive" output is completely inactive. These were disappointing to me compared to my previous Pioneer HD receiver because I like to use side-by-side PIP my TV offers with 480i sources. The Pioneer would down-convert on S-Video/composite outputs simultaneously. I miss this. Also, I have a DVD recorder and am now unable to record onto DVD anything from DVR, HD downconverted and squished, or Digital Tier.
- No darkness-control of sidebars like it says in documentation. Default is gray.
- Unable to watch slow-mo like it says in documentation.
- Menu navigation is MUCH, MUCH faster on HD channels than on the Pioneer.
- SD PQ is a little worse, but tolerable. HD PQ was great, both live and on playback.
- Haven't played with the "Cable Out" coax output.
- Unable to decipher input source type (480i, 720p, 1080i) from diag channel like I was before.

This is all I can think of after 2 hours of kicking the tires. Even with all my issues above, I love the unit. I've never had a PVR before and can see how it's addictive.

Craash or anyone else, if you have any other insight or suggestions, it'd be appreciated.


A few other things:
- Noticed the gray sidebars on KCTV-DT when SD programming is on. Thanks, DOM!!!!!
- (Sorry, non TWC folks) WDAF-DT is now up on DD 5.1!!!!!! Right now, "The Complex" is on and it's SD, but there's a big (almost as big as KCPT-DT) FOX bug in the lower right that overlaps the sidebars. Bug has a blue tint. Looks like WDAF will be good to go for NFL season, except for the power thing. Any progress is good...

Thanks for the info squeak49. HD-DVR's sound neat. Got to get one someday soon for OTA.

Jeff, I have the LG LST-3410A OTA DVR and LOVE IT!!

I also have it paired with a Mits HS-HD2000U D-VHS Deck.

I have got to check out these HD-DVR's on the internet. I feel like I am falling behind on the technology in HDTV. Maybe Santa will bring me a new HD-DVR this year along with WDAF boosting their broadcasting power so all of us Kansas City digital OTA viewers get to see the Super Bowl this NFL season.

Thanks for the updates on the HD DVR, this forum is great. I was able to get one today and I think they only had one or two left.

I do have a question, has anyone gotten the DVI to work? The person at the cable store said that the DVI worked, however I get a blank screen. I called tech support, but they basically told me that they didn't have any information due to how new the HD DVR is.

Welcome abmet :)

squeak49--i was in there the same time and 1 got one of the 3 remaining. My neighbor went back later in the afternoon today and they were out. However, they said they'd call him if they got more in.

The "waiting on equipment" answer is the same one that I've been getting when asking the CSRs.

Anybody else having problems with all comcast HD channels, especially INHD?
I want to have some ammo when I call them, so I can prove that its not just my house, its at the head end, and I don't need a service call

glad to see that I am not the only one having problems with INHD with Comcast. It had been working just fine till a couple of day's ago. I get audio dropouts plus pixelization and video dropouts. I experience these problems on both component and DVI. I'm about ready to call and complain also. I can't enjoy hidef at all with this junk.

I haven't been having any problems with INHD from Comcast. But then again, I don't have half the problems with them that most people seem to have. Would there be a difference for those in Independence and those in Olathe?

So just to reiterate ... if I am already paying an extra $6.95/mo for the InHD and HDNet (HD) package on TWC, I will only really be paying an extra $3/mo to have the HD PVR features of the Explorer 8000HD?? TWC is indeed including those channels for FREE if you subscribe to the $10/mo HD-PVR hardware package? I currently have the SA Explorer 3250HD and love it but would love to get PVR for $3 more a month if it's true!

Eyedox,
That is correct. I think that the folks at TW are all confused, so you may have a hard time getting them to figure it out, but theoretically you should just drop the HD tier, then add the HD-DVR and get the tier for free and have a net difference of $3/month.

I'm having more than the occasional glitch. Its glitching about every second on all HD channels. Comcast is telling me that its my house only, and they won't be able to send anybody out for 2 weeks !!!! (well after the Chiefs game which I'm having people over for).

Is anybody having major problems like me????

I'm thinking I'm going to be doing some satellite shopping in the next couple of days.

Sega19,
Don't worry it's not your house. I'm having the same problems in both my upstairs receiver and downstairs hometheater receiver. It makes me mad as hell when I get a csr moron that tries to tell me the problem is on my end. I think all the problems started with the new channel realignment. I wish someone had a name or number of someone in Comcast engineering so we could air our problems and have them addressed by someone who knows something about the technology.

el scorcho,
Has Olathe Comcast done a channel realignment for you guys?

Greg

gps, do you know how to check the stats on your box?

This link will show you have to check it.
http://cjhengineering.com/hdtv/cablehdtv/dctdiag.htm
I would like to see your numbers.

Here's mine:
Under inband status :
signal to noise (SNR) 29.2db (poor) (higher is better)
Agc: 73% fair (lower is better)
5 second error counts:
uncorrectable: 50
correctable: 102480

This is for inhd. It uses the last channel you tuned to.
Inhd seems to have the most problems, probably because it is the
highest data rate.


If anybody else wants to report, that would be great!

sega19,
Thanks for the link ! Here's mine, on INHD channel
SNR is 31.2db fair (here lies the problem)
AGC is 54% (says good)
uncorrectable error counts 0000
correctable 35645
I'm not sure what all that means, but the SNR should be better. I plan on talking to someone at Comcast on tuesday after the holiday. I don't know if it will do any good, but I will be sure to threaten cancellation if not corrected soon.
Greg

I am looking for someone to compare notes in KC that will be using a Sanyo Z2 projector

Originally posted by gps


el scorcho,
Has Olathe Comcast done a channel realignment for you guys?

Greg

Yes, they happened at the same time and I haven't had any problems, but I never had any problems before that either. I checked my numbers for INHD on the website listed above and get SNR - 33.7 dB (Good) and AGC 81% (Good), with no error counts of any kind.

Originally posted by el scorcho
Yes, they happened at the same time and I haven't had any problems, but I never had any problems before that either. I checked my numbers for INHD on the website listed above and get SNR - 33.7 dB (Good) and AGC 81% (Good), with no error counts of any kind.

Hmmmmmm, Interesting that 33.7 dB is good and 31.2 dB is fair, not much of a margin. Maybe the SNR is'nt whats causing all the dropouts. I'm at a loss, I hope others from the Independence, Lee's Summit, Blue Springs area will chime in with what they are getting.
Greg

Originally posted by Jayhawk
Eyedox,
That is correct. I think that the folks at TW are all confused, so you may have a hard time getting them to figure it out, but theoretically you should just drop the HD tier, then add the HD-DVR and get the tier for free and have a net difference of $3/month.

Do you think it's better to call and cancel that HD tier before going in to get an HD-DVR? I can live without the HD tier for a day or two.

I can imagine the TWC people getting confused when I say:

Here is my current DVR and HD box. I'd like the HD-DVR. Now I already have the HD tier, but I know it comes free with the HD-DVR, so before I leave I want to make sure I am not paying additionally for the HD tier, since it comes with the HD-DVR. Got that?

Originally posted by pappy97
Do you think it's better to call and cancel that HD tier before going in to get an HD-DVR? I can live without the HD tier for a day or two.

I can imagine the TWC people getting confused when I say:

Here is my current DVR and HD box. I'd like the HD-DVR. Now I already have the HD tier, but I know it comes free with the HD-DVR, so before I leave I want to make sure I am not paying additionally for the HD tier, since it comes with the HD-DVR. Got that?

It's hard to say, some of them seen to know what they're doing, others don't. Just make sure that they confirm that you're getting the HD-DVR and the HD tier and your bill only went up $3.00.

Originally posted by pappy97
Do you think it's better to call and cancel that HD tier before going in to get an HD-DVR? I can live without the HD tier for a day or two.

I can imagine the TWC people getting confused when I say:

Here is my current DVR and HD box. I'd like the HD-DVR. Now I already have the HD tier, but I know it comes free with the HD-DVR, so before I leave I want to make sure I am not paying additionally for the HD tier, since it comes with the HD-DVR. Got that?

For me, the guy at the OP store took care of all of that with no problem - I didn't even have to ask for it. The people at the counter seem more knowledgable than the CSR's.

Squeak49 (or anyone else that has picked up the new HD-DVR from OP TWC lately) ...
Did they say if they still were having a shortage (hardware supply problem) of SA Explorer 8000HD boxes or will they have it in stock if I drive all the way over to OP to exchange my SA Explorer 3250HD for one?

Eyedox,

This is what I overheard the people at the counter saying: that they're officially ready Tuesday and will start marketing them then. What was there late last week was a preliminary shipment. Also, I got the impression that there were plenty at the warehouse (don't know where this is) and that more would be shipped Tuesday. To me, it sounded as though they'd be plentiful once shipped.

Hopefully that helps. Probably after noon Tuesday would be a good idea to make the trade. I can take no responsibility if they still don't have any. :rolleyes: Good luck!!!!

For anyone else who has picked up an 8000HD, did yours come with a 1394 / firewire port? (mine did not)

The port wouldn't be active yet, but hopefully they have started ordering the boxes with the ports so that they can be activated later.

DOM,

I think I speak for everyone in this thread when I say

THANK YOU!!!!

Seriously - much thanks to you and your peers at KCTV5 for all of your attention to the concerns of KCTV5's viewer community. We really appreciate the effort you have put in to make KCTV5 broadcast product the best audio and video quality it can be. Quite frankly, it is my opinion that your efforts have made KCTV5's product the best in KC. Keep it coming!!

What do you say all - how about a shout out for DOM?

Sincerely,
js615

This just in ... ESPN2-HD beginning Jan 2005.

http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20040907005551&newsLang=en

I agree, DOM and KCTV rock.

For those inquiring about the 8000HD, the guy on the phone told me when I called that the stores are only getting about 20 a day. So, they are currently supposedly only giving them out to people on the waiting lists at the stores. I am sure you could get around that, though.

Picked up my SA Explorer 8000HD today from the OP TWC store. I didn't even speak and he said "are you here for the new HD-DVR box?" I was carrying my 3250HD box at the time. He knew about the $3 difference in cost and the free HD package. I was impressed with my CSA. No firewire port though. Can't wait to get home and hook it up tonight to try it ... on my birthday no less!! :)

Anyone heard if the local TWC will be adding the local WB affiliate to our HD lineup in October when they are predicted to go 1080i?? It seems stupid that the WB and TWC, which share the same parent company, don't have an agreement for carriage yet?! Maybe they are just waiting until there is something HD to pass along.

I just picked up the SA8000HD and I'm already ticked off.

You see, I watch most of my TV with my SDTV. When I wanna go HD, I use the projector. For some reason, this box doesn't have the S-Video output working normally. The manual says the box has to be in "SD only" mode to output S-Video. That sucks for starters.

Secondly, the manual gives instructions on how to change this mode (you can't do it from settings, you have to call up some screen before you ever turn on the SA8000HD) to make it SD only. First off, this stinks. Secondly, I can't seem to get this screen to show up.

Lastly I saw a thread on avsforum re: SA8000HD box and it details how to get into the service menu (press center select button on box for a few seconds and when message lit blinks, press info on box), but I can't get into the service menu either.

Any SA8000HD experts here know what I can do to enable the S-Video out? I guess I don't mind disabling the HD while I watch SD, but I must have S-Video out.

The whole point of getting the HD-DVR was to replace the 1.) HD BOx and 2) SD-DVR.

Thanks.

Since my TV also has 480i component in, I am going to use that for now (and then switch cables which I normally do and change the output, but it didn't have to be so complicated.

I don't see the reason to have so many outputs inactive.

pappy,

I agree with you about the S-Video out being disabled - this disappointed me. Also was bummed the "VCR Archive" output was disabled. All in all, I still consider it a huge step up from non-HD DVR and/or HD without DVR.

I'd suggest going over to the "HDTV recorders" forum and check out the 8000HD thread there. I haven't gotten to read much there, but I bet there's all sorts of useful stuff in there. No point re-inventing the wheel here.

Has anyone using the TW HD-DVR had problems getting the 4:3 broadcasts to stretch on a 16:9 television?

If you go into settings, you can set your TV as 16:9, then say that 4:3 broadcasts should be stretched to fit the screen. This only works on SD channels, not on the HD channels on a non-HD show. The problem is that I set it, and everything works fine, but when I switch to an HD channel, then back to one of the SD channels, the 4:3 programming is no longer stretched.

It basically seems like there's a software problem that causes the settings to be reset.

PBS HD is now back on channel 221 on Comcast.
PBS simulcast is on 220.

WDAF website news...............................

WDAF is broadcasting a digital signal (720p) on channel 34 at low power. The programming is the same as channel 4. WDAF's digital signal can also be seen on the Time Warner Cable digital tier. If you do not have cable and live outside of our low power coverage area, you may not be able to see our digital signal. From our tower (Summit at 31st Street), our area of low power coverage is approximately 12-15 miles depending on terrain. Although WDAF is not currently broadcasting in high power, we are in the planning stages. Thank you for watching Fox 4 television and being a loyal viewer as we enter into a new and exciting era.

Hopefully soon for us digital OTA viewers to be able to watch WDAF FOX programming and WDAF local news.:)

12-15 miles, my ass?! Who do they think they're kidding?!?! Try three city blocks line-of-sight and you might be at least realistic. Still at least those of us with TWC can get 720p FOX now ... Superbowl HD, here we come!

Hey Eyedox, let's not bash WDAF. It sounds like they were just being cautious about announcing the HD feed, and they publicly come out and said that they were going to upgrade the power. So, they must be doing it.

I spoke with Beth yesterday (forgot to post this) and she did confirm they were getting ready to update the site with that news. I asked her for specifics about what was getting in the way of the power upgrades and she said she really couldn't get into it. I asked if other antennas were getting in the way and she said that was one of the many variables she couldn't get into because it would take too long to explain.

I agree kcjefff, it's just that I have a low tolerance for their past deceptions. I wish that WDAF wouldn't exaggerate about things like their OTA coverage area, or what they are or arent working on ... just be honest with us and keep us informed. Don't deny things, deceive us, or lie ... I would rather hear a "no comment" from them on an issue, rather than a lie or denial. I hope you are right about them boosting their power signal soon, for those in KC that are not lucky enough to have TWC like I am. I am thankful we have 720p at least ... progress is progress.

Well that sounds like a glimmer of hope. I'm guessing that it's not going to help us for week 2 - NFL. Where the Chiefs-Panthers game is a ST HD game, but it's on Fox. I am sure that we will be blacked out, and stuck with the WDAF broadcast.

Not every issue is a local issue. The people fielding all the complaints may be just as frustrated as the local viewer. I'm sure that nobody likes the fact that they are low power, but even if it was intentional (which is doubtful), as an O&O - that decision would be made by FOX at the network level not the local affiliate.

FOX isn't doing anything in this transition "half-assed", and the power issue is likely to be addressed with a higher priority now that HD is a reality.

Hi all,

I've been browsing for months now, and thought I would finally sign up. Have a question; Titan TV does not show if the Chiefs game will be in HD OTA on Sunday. I would assume it is, but can anyone tell me for sure?

Thanks

Regardless of whether or not the decisions for the O&O Fox affiliates like WDAF are made at the corporate level, it doesn't give the local affiliate the right to be dishonest with what they are doing behind the scenes. They owe it to their viewers to keep us informed and up-to-date with their progress, good or bad news. Denying, misinforming, or misdirecting straighforward questions from viewers is not only rediculous, it's intolerable. Maybe I am old-fashioned, but I still believe in trust, honesty, and integrity ... something a lot of businesses have long forgotten in this country.

Originally posted by Eyedox
Regardless of whether or not the decisions for the O&O Fox affiliates like WDAF are made at the corporate level, it doesn't give the local affiliate the right to be dishonest with what they are doing behind the scenes. They owe it to their viewers to keep us informed and up-to-date with their progress, good or bad news. Denying, misinforming, or misdirecting straighforward questions from viewers is not only rediculous, it's intolerable. Maybe I am old-fashioned, but I still believe in trust, honesty, and integrity ... something a lot of businesses have long forgotten in this country.

I agree.

I also agree, the FOX HD signal should be free, but WDAF is having us sign up to cable to receive their FOX HD signal.


Gshoe Wrote:
I've been browsing for months now, and thought I would finally sign up. Have a question; Titan TV does not show if the Chiefs game will be in HD OTA on Sunday. I would assume it is, but can anyone tell me for sure?


This is an ESPN game. Channel 9 has permission to show us the SD ESPN feed, but not the HD ESPN feed. It's totally political.

TechnicalItalian is this still correct?

Eyedox and other TWC subs,

I'll watch this week's ESPN-HD game on Dish for you if you'll watch next week's on FOX-HD for me. Deal?

Brad

Originally posted by Bradtothebone
I'll watch this week's ESPN-HD game on Dish for you if you'll watch next week's on FOX-HD for me. Deal? Hillarious! :) I still like the idea of setting up an HDTV on WDAF's front lawn so we can pick up the signal OTA. Invite about 3,000 of your closest friends. I think it's stupid that Disney won't let ESPN-HD be carried locally on the ABC DTV affiliate in HD. That is tantamount to downrezzing in my book. Give us a break already and just give us the game in HD. It's not OUR fault that TWC doesn't carry your channel yet! Hey B2TB, I live in Shawnee also .... btw K-7 & I-435 off of Johnson Drive. Where are you at approximately?

Has anybody contacted Comcast in regards to carrying Fox?

I've been waiting for you Comcast and Everest customers to speak up!! I'm surprised it has taken this long. Sheesh. :D

Well, they didn't have anything I cared to watch till now. Comcast seems to want to carry only digital channels that have HD. With Fox keeping their plans so secretive, I doubt Comcast knows about it. I don't have any contacts. Heck, I can't even get them to fix the current HD channels ( although most of them are coming in fine now, without anyone coming to my house, except for KSHB & Showtime)

Jerky, do you have any contacts?

yep.... i left a voicemail for my headend tech contact but have yet to hear back... i just asked if there was a possibility of getting the HD feed in a round-about way from TW. TW does the local adverts for both Comcast and Fox 4 via a direct fiber. This is why TW has the local Fox HD feed, they don't recieve it like everyone else has to. I asked 'em if there isn't a power increase from Fox4, if there wa any talk/plans to maybe try passing it through the fiber link between Comcast and TW. The more i think about it the more i'm thinkin' it's not likely. It's a permanent solution to a temporary problem from a cost perspective. With any luck, once Fox ups their power (if they are to be believed) it won't matter anyway.... i'll keep the thread updated on what i hear.

BTW as far as the tiling problems with the HD channels, my contact said he had gotten complaints about problems, but after he checked everything out, everything looked good. So the last thing i heard was that service calls would need to be setup, however it's looking like as time goes on, things are improving. I've noticed not nearly as much tiling as i had even just yesterday. So things are looking better. Maybe just a compression glitch that's clearing itself. Who knows?

Welcome Gshoe to the Kansas City HDTV forum.:)

Originally posted by js615
DOM,

I think I speak for everyone in this thread when I say

THANK YOU!!!!

Seriously - much thanks to you and your peers at KCTV5 for all of your attention to the concerns of KCTV5's viewer community. We really appreciate the effort you have put in to make KCTV5 broadcast product the best audio and video quality it can be. Quite frankly, it is my opinion that your efforts have made KCTV5's product the best in KC. Keep it coming!!

What do you say all - how about a shout out for DOM?

Sincerely,
js615

Many thanks to DogOf Madness, TechnicalItalian, TV Doc and the e-mail's from the local Kansas City engineers who help make this forum work. I vote that all of the engineers from the Kansas City television stations be inducted into the HDTV Hall of Fame. And a special thank you to the digital viewers of Kansas City who work hard to usher in a new sharper and better sounding era of television. Let us all keep bouncing ideas off of each other and together Kansas City will remain a leader in digital television broadcasting.

Originally posted by Eyedox
Hillarious! :) I still like the idea of setting up an HDTV on WDAF's front lawn so we can pick up the signal OTA. Invite about 3,000 of your closest friends.

I can see it now:

Hey WDAF what are you watching?

The Chiefs game in HD.

Can we watch?

Well...

We've got chips...and salsa!

OK but only if you've got cable.


Sorry but after seeing that Sony commercial so many times during the Olympics, I couldn't resist. :D

You truly do the hypno toad justice.

Well, I have now have Comcast HD, yippie.

Every since Sunday, when they installed it, I have been driving myself crazy trying to figure out the best cables to use and the best way to route those cables. Information overload.

First let me tell you about my equipment. I have a Sony Grand Wega II 50” LCD RP and a Sony 700 watt true surround sound system with all the goodies, plus a DVD with progressive scan bla bla bla.

I have been running Dish on the TV for a year, but have now changed back to cable. There is some overlap in service though, so I have been using PIP to compare cable and dish side by side. I also have a basic cable line for running PIP when watching digital or HD cable or anything else.

Anyway, as previously mentioned, the analog channels of cable are darker and do not look as good as the same dish channels. I have read that using a DVI cable will help this, but the DVI cable reduces the boldness of the HD channels. I’m not sure what to think about that. The HD looks awesome. I am using component cables provided by Comcast which appear to be of high quality, while I have expensive components still running to my DVD. Speaking of DVD, I am using an optical cable for the DVD surround sound. Should I use the same for the HD and digital cable? It sounds like I am getting surround sound from the two audio component cables though, maybe it’s just not Dolby. Oh and speaking of sound, this Motorola 6200 cable box has it’s own volume control. What is that? I am now getting different volumes from different devices.

OK, but here is a real question. Will I get the Chiefs game in HD or not on Sunday? Oh and what about the Mizzou game on ESPN thursday?

I need a technician.

Yes to Chiefs. No to Mizzou.

The Chiefs Game will be on ESPN-HD at 7:30 PM on Sunday.

Comcast channel 202.
Everest channel 650.
DirecTV channel 73.
Dish channel 9424.
Voom channel 301.

If you have TWC or OTA (me) you are out of luck.

I have TWC and OTA ... so technically I am screwed, however, I am flying out to Denver for the game! 3D High Def to the max and 80,000.1 Surround Sound!

KCMO -

You'll just be getting ProLogic "Surround Sound" with the stereo audio cables. You'll want to use either the optical or coaxial digital audio out on the 6200. They'll both pass through DD5.1, it just depends on what you've got available on your receiver.

Originally posted by hdtimmy
I also agree, the FOX HD signal should be free, but WDAF is having us sign up to cable to receive their FOX HD signal.



This is an ESPN game. Channel 9 has permission to show us the SD ESPN feed, but not the HD ESPN feed. It's totally political.

TechnicalItalian is this still correct?

It's my understanding that ESPN does not provide the game to affiliates in HD because of their deal with cable & satellite providers. Whether it's a political decision on their part- I don't know.

TI

WDAF looked excellent last night. Not that I enjoy watching their Wednesday programming. All programming was coming through in widescreen with DD 5.1. I think they're ready to throw the switch this weekend.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by js615
[B]DOM & TI - Two questions for both of you:

1. Both KCTV and KMBC are broadcasting local programming in 4:3 format with black side bars added on the up-conversion - What would it take to get gray side bars (or even better yet - animated side bars like ESPN HD uses) for 4:3 programming that is up-converted? I know 30 minutes here and there of the black sides bars won't kill me, but over longer periods of time I am concerned about burn-in.

2. Jeffdbs has asked about this before and I'll ask about it again: What would it take to get the broadcaster "bugs" removed from the lower right corner of the screen? Perhaps you could occasionally pop them up for a few seconds then have them disappear. Logo bugs aren't an issue on older tube sets, but for the HD community with newer sets, burn-in is a concern. If the "bugs" stay up for the duration of one or two hour shows, it will have an impact over time.

You may have noticed the gray side bars on KMBC & KCWE while in 4x3 programming. Depending on the signal from ABC during 16x9 programming the bars sometimes work and sometimes don't when the network switches to 4x3 commercial material. Unfortunately, due to horizontal blanking, there's a slight black bar on either side of the active video. We're looking into what we can do about that.....if anything.

Regarding the bugs. The lower right corner is the defacto standard for most all of television programmers. Over syndicated programming, KMBC & KCWE only use a "crystal" bug which has a very low luminance level that shouldn't cause burn-in.

We appreciate the feed back on the side bars. We're going to try them out for a week or so as a test. We'll see how the collective "you" like them.

technicalitalian,

I appreciate the grey bars, but I have a question related to the bug. I'm fairly certain I already know the answer, but I'm curious as to your response. Why don't the commercials have the bug?

BTW,
For those of you that have Comcast and are experiencing problems with the digital tier and hi-def channels. A comcast rep left a message that they are aware of the problems (would'nt say if they knew what the problem is)and are working on them. The rep went on to say that a credit would be issued for those on the digital tier that were inconvienced by notifying them.
Greg

Originally posted by jwprimetime
WDAF looked excellent last night. Not that I enjoy watching their Wednesday programming. All programming was coming through in widescreen with DD 5.1. I think they're ready to throw the switch this weekend.

The "switch" is already thrown - now it's up to the network to send some HD through.

Did everyone catch this?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=443890

HD locals on Direct, sweet!

Originally posted by jeffdbs

I am trying to get a waiver to see FOX 720p HDTV programming by satellite but truthfully I would rather see FOX 720p HDTV free on Over the Air WDAF DT-34. My family and I want and do support our local television stations and we enjoy the local news on our HDTV before and after primetime HDTV network programming.


Did you ever get your waiver? As a D* subscriber, I am tempted to write them myself. No way to pull in their digital signal OTA from Grain Valley either.

Originally posted by Eyedox
Hey B2TB, I live in Shawnee also .... btw K-7 & I-435 off of Johnson Drive. Where are you at approximately?

I'm west of K-7, behind the new golf course. I'm in kind of a little valley, but get all the OTA channels fine, with the glaring exception of WLAF......er, WDAF.

You know, it's really a shame about them. I sort of like their "homespun" schtick, and the fact that they're still in their original 1949 studio. Personally, I think that they really screwed the pooch when they jumped from NBC to FOX, but I guess they wanted to get into local news big-time.

Brad

Brad, just a little interesting note, Channel 4 had no choice at the time. NBC dumped them and went with Channel 41, which was Fox at the time. So it was either be a Fox affilliate or be independent. The reason they have so much news is that Fox only programs prime time till 9 pm and has no early network news, like the big 3. I know this because I worked at Channel 9 at the time of the big switch, and got the inside scoop. I'm sure if WDAF had a choice, they'd still be NBC.

But then we would probably have been waiting for NBC-HD instead of FOX-HD ... and NBC has had a lot more HD for a lot longer. I, for one, am glad that WDAF has not kept me from seeing NBC in HD this last glorious year.

I personally wouldn't have cared either way. The Olympics were a huge letdown as far HD went, and NBC doesn't have any shows in HD other than ER that I watch. Also, the HD they do have doesn't seem to be a good transfer, I think they are still shooting in film and transferring it to HD. CSI and CBS as a whole blow away anything that NBC/KSHB has ever done in my opinion. (not to mention the fact that they don't have any 5.1) But then, I have never been a fan of the "Notre dame Broadcasting Corporation"

Originally posted by olathebob
Brad, just a little interesting note, Channel 4 had no choice at the time. NBC dumped them and went with Channel 41, which was Fox at the time. So it was either be a Fox affilliate or be independent. The reason they have so much news is that Fox only programs prime time till 9 pm and has no early network news, like the big 3. I know this because I worked at Channel 9 at the time of the big switch, and got the inside scoop. I'm sure if WDAF had a choice, they'd still be NBC.

Thanks for the refresher, Olathebob. I didn't really remember (or maybe never knew) the circumstances surrounding the swap.

But that brings up an interesting question: How do networks pick their affiliates? For example, why would NBC have seen channel 41, then an independent with no news organization, showing "The 700 Club" and reruns, as an attractive alternative to a powerful VHF station? Does the ownership of a station bid for affiliation with a network, or is there some other mechanism at work?

Brad

Originally posted by mike51
Did you ever get your waiver? As a D* subscriber, I am tempted to write them myself. No way to pull in their digital signal OTA from Grain Valley either.

mike51- I mailed in a waiver request to WDAF weeks ago. I called and checked on the status of the waiver only to be told that no one could find the waiver. So I faxed a copy of the mailed in waiver and I called to double check that the fax arrived at WDAF. So I called back this week to check on the status of the waiver and now I am told since HDTV was on the waiver that my waiver has been put in the hands of another department.

So here I wait for a waiver request. A simple yes or no from WDAF would be nice. In the meantime I have tried a new amplifier on my outside antenna to receive WDAF DT-34 weak signal but to no avail. I think the amplifier raises the noise level along with the weak DT-34 signal which wipes out any advantage of a gain in signal strength . I guess I need an engineer on this problem or better yet a much needed boost in power output from WDAF. Anyway it is good news that some of the digital viewers will be seeing FOX HDTV programming this Sunday. Small steps for now in the right direction in regards to WDAF. Things are looking up on FOX HDTV here in Kansas City. :)

I've had just moved to Kansas in '95. So to me WDAF has always been FOX-4. When FOX started up all the fox affiliates were in the UHF range. In the early to mid 90's FOX brought up a lot of the VHF stations all across the nation. If you check the FOX O&O stations you'll see that the majority of them are VHF while the non O&O FOX affiliates are still UHF. I've also noticed that when the FOX station is on VHF then one of the other three (NBC, ABC or CBS) is UHF. Most places the FOX and ### (top three network) simply changed channel assignments. In city's that did not already have a FOX affiliate the ### (top three network) had to affiliate with one of the independent stations or get a new assignment from the FCC. Like I said I wasn't here when the change took place. Does anybody know who owned WDAF when it was NBC.

Glenn

Originally posted by olathebob
Brad, just a little interesting note, Channel 4 had no choice at the time. NBC dumped them and went with Channel 41, which was Fox at the time. So it was either be a Fox affilliate or be independent. The reason they have so much news is that Fox only programs prime time till 9 pm and has no early network news, like the big 3. I know this because I worked at Channel 9 at the time of the big switch, and got the inside scoop. I'm sure if WDAF had a choice, they'd still be NBC.

Lets get it right here. WDAF was changed to FOX by choice of the new owner at the time ( New World Communications) which was then bought by FOX, funny how that worked out. It does work out well for all the news time they have to fill with the FOX schedule.

Glad to read here that they are getting FOX HD in Kansas City. Can't wait to receive a good off air signal in Blue Springs as the 1100 watt ERP at 3030 Summit doesn't carry very far.

TechnicalItalian- My single vote is to just let us digital viewers have the 4X3 programming without any changes. My set-top-box can add gray bars along with stretch, partial zoom, full zoom and normal. The gray bars are nice but for me they are to hard to explain to new digital viewers. Viewers can decide at home how we would like to have our picture on our HDTV during 4X3 programming.

Now if you really want to gives us a treat how about taking a look at ESPN-HD. I really love ESPN-HD side bars during 4X3 programming. Gosh....... nice low light side color bars with see through KMBC9-DT letters would look real sharp. That way as the daily new digital viewers turn on their new HDTV's there is no mistake as if they are watching an old analog channel or a new digital channel. Thanks.

Originally posted by jeffdbs
TechnicalItalian- My single vote is to just let us digital viewers have the 4X3 programming without any changes. My set-top-box can add gray bars along with stretch, partial zoom, full zoom and normal. The gray bars are nice but for me they are to hard to explain to new digital viewers. Viewers can decide at home how we would like to have our picture on our HDTV during 4X3 programming.


I've got to agree with all the above - There are other options for those who wish to avoid displaying black bars. I find the gray bars are very distracting; enough so that I choose analog when they're displayed. Also the black border makes them even more noticeable. Not trying to start the great debate. Just my two cents. :D

FYI - just about every set in retail production today locks the formatting of the 16X9 signal to "full" mode - such that you cannot override the format to down-res back to 4x3. This means you cannot add gray bars to a true HDTV stream (HDTV specs are for 16x9 aspect ratio in addition to the various line resolutions). Hence, if the locals broadcast a digital 1080i or 720p 16x9 format (even though the content is not High Def - such as a standard definition digital stream upconverted and formatted to HD 16x9) with bars you will get those bars on the side and there ain't a thing you can do about it. The only time you are able to add your own bars is if you are receiving a 4x3 aspect ratio stream (some sets even dictate whether or not this has to be interlaced or progressive). In almost all analog or digital 4x3 streams, you can dictate how your set scales the image and how it treats the side bars should you choose to retain the 4x3 format. Consequently, all of the side bar issues become moot if you choose to scale the image to better fit your 16x9 aspect ratio (wide, zoom, and a plethora of other proprietary algorithms by the manufacturers). I am curious if someone out there has a set that does override a HD stream format and allow you to change the bars...

I vote the broadcasters keep the non-black bars on all 4x3 broadcasts(gray or other) to protect our sets. This is even more important for those with CRT and plasma sets. LCD is much less prone such burn-in. My guess is that most folks just scale the image to fit the screen (and in the process have to deal with shorter, fatter people) but that for the rare occasion we choose to retain the 4x3 format, I would think we'd want to protect the CRTs by avoiding black side bars.

...just my two cents...

Did anyone catch Aaron Barnhardt's column in the Star this morning? Here is is just in case:

HDTV on Fox — finally

With little fanfare, Fox-owned WDAF, Channel 4, will begin offering high-definition broadcasts Sunday. Select NFL games and some Fox shows, including “Arrested Development,” will appear in the sharper, wider 720p HDTV format.

However, unless you're a Time Warner Cable HD customer, good luck receiving it. There is too much load on WDAF's main tower to support the antenna that broadcasts in high def, so the signal is going out weakly over a stubby backup tower. The signal is so weak that Comcast can't pick it up over the air. Time Warner and DirecTV run fiber-optic lines to Signal Hill, which is why they can offer WDAF in high def.

And until the market for HDTV busts out of the single digits, that's pretty much where things will stand, according to the station's top engineer, Jim Moore.

“Fox has a plan to roll this out,” Moore said this week. “And they're going to roll it out right when they do it, and it's going to be sooner than later.”

Still, if you're in Comcast country, you might want to make other arrangements to watch the Chiefs play in next year's Super Bowl on Fox.


...sigh...I'm calling D*TV to see what they say about giving me a national feed...

I thought the NFL game last night looked and sounded pretty good. I just didn't realize that there was such a large delay between the HD and SD broadcasts. Must take a little time to convert. However, it does cause a little problem when the surround is on the HD projector, and the other SD tv's in the basement are ahead of the sound. Guess I'll have to leave it on SD to have all the tv's synchronized.

Originally posted by js615
...I would think we'd want to protect the CRTs by avoiding gray side bars.

...just my two cents...

js615, grey bars are better than black bars, so you know. With black bars, the phospher on your tubes are not wearing down as fast as the rest of the tube. Grey bars help a bit, but they are still a problem over time.

Originally posted by kcjefff
js615, gray bars are better than black bars, so you know. With black bars, the phosphor on your tubes are not wearing down as fast as the rest of the tube. Grey bars help a bit, but they are still a problem over time.

kcjeff - oops, typo on my part - hopefully the point of my earlier request came through - gray is better than black. I do like ESPN's side bars though - those are pretty cool. I like how they change color over time. Still, I'd prefer no bars - but it will take many years before all the world's SD cameras are replaced with HD cameras. Anyhow, thanks for catching that error. I fixed the original post.

I just got off the phone with Joy (whom I was told is the person that is responsible for approving waiver requests). Joy seemed very aware of the situation (and knowledgeable - she felt that the power would not be boosted anytime soon) and further explained that they (management, I guess) just had a meeting about the HD waiver request issue and determined that they (the local affiliate) are not responsible for the HD waiver. She informed me that they have forwarded the issue to FOX Corporate in LA and are asking them for instructions on what to do. She has not heard back from them and suggested I call back in a few days. In the meantime, no HD waivers will be processed.

I also left a message for Bob Marsocci, Sr. Director, Communications - DIRECTV, Inc. (310 726-4656 or ramarsocci@directv.com) with regard to understating exactly what D*TV's position is on the FOX national feed. The folks I spoke to yesterday indicated that waivers will still need to be granted and most likely would be on a case-by-case basis. However, they also said that if I was in the viewing area and able to receive the analog broadcast, I probably would not get a waiver for the national feed - HD or otherwise. I explained the whole issue of not being able to receive the digital signal, but the gal seemed very confused. I have corresponded with Bob before and he has been very forthright about the goings on at D*TV. Hopefully I'll hear back in a day or two.

I am also going to bug the crap out of FOX corporate to see if I can get someone over there to take a stand on the issue.

Whatever happens, I'll post it here...

I just spoke with Scott Grogin, VP Corporate Communications for FOX Broadcasting (310-369-4733). Scott explained that he is well aware of the situation and has several e-mails regarding the KC situation. He also explained that the waiver issue is NOT a Corporate concern, but is in fact, a local affiliate concern. This has me worried because the folks at WDAF seem very confused as to whether or not they can approve waivers - and I expressed the same to Scott. Scott responded by saying he would forward this along to Mark Lipps who handles affiliate relations (remember that I spoke to him last month and he was more or less unable to help out and - I think - very much siding with WDAF). But he did listen to the complaint and offered advice and options. That is far more than WDAF has been able to do for us all. The good news is that Mark did follow up last month by sending an e-mail to Scott about the conversation he and I had. At least Scott was not caught unaware of the waiver request.

Nonetheless, I reiterated my desire to view FOX broadcasts in digital format and asked for Scott's help. He could not promise anything other than to punt this back over to Mark.

I can't help but feel Scott was a bit irritated with having to deal with this issue. However, he seemed concerned, and perhaps even frustrated (obviously he has been called on this before) but still I wonder if there are enough of us to get this moving...

I'll keep trying. Is anyone getting traction elsewhere?

According to what I have seen in other sections of this forum, since FOX4 is Owned and Operated by FOX, DirecTV will give you National FOX HD without a waiver when it is available.

Originally posted by hdtimmy
According to what I have seen in other sections of this forum, since FOX4 is Owned and Operated by FOX, DirecTV will give you National FOX HD without a waiver when it is available.

I sure hop you are right...unfortunately, this is not true according to the folks at D*TV. Also, Scott did say that would be between D*TV and and the local affiliate. If so, we are then back to the confusing mess that Joy passed to FOX Corporate. When I asked about that waiver, both Cheryl and Joy indicated it was extremely unlikely we would get such a blanket waiver from them. I am still waiting on a return call from Bob at D*TV.

Jeffdbs - have you heard anything different from WDAF?
Has anyone else contacted Comcast to see if they have plans?

FYI ... FOX Network has discontinued its SD 480p 16:9 Widescreen feed nationwide. From now on, FOX programming will be sent and delivered in either 4:3 480i SD or full-bandwidth 720p 16:9 HD/DD5.1. Affiliates who have not had their splicer installed (or if their splicer is not online) will only be able to pass the 4:3 480i SD feed. Thank goodness WDAF has completed their 720p splicer upgrades, or we would have been taking a step back in time.

I just bought a Samsung SyncMaster 192MP monitor for my home office partly because it includes an HDTV tuner. I'd appreciate any advice on antennas.

I currently have a VHF/UHF antenna in the attic that runs to the TV in the living room. The antenna is right above my office, so it should be pretty straightforward to install a splitter and run a line down to the 192MP. But before I do that, I thought I'd check to see if an indoor/set-top antenna might be an option, partly because I don't have a rotor on the attic antenna and partly because enough good-quality cable would cost only about $10 less than a mid-line indoor antenna.

I bought a RadioShack indoor, amplified "Signal Finder" (#15-1870) antenna, but the picture was so-so -- worse than what I get in the living room on my SDTV with the attic antenna -- so I returned it. Has anybody had any luck with indoor antennas? Or is using the attic antenna my best bet?

Thanks.

I've been watching the topic here regarding a waiver for WDAF. It sounds to me like some are making efforts to get a waiver signed to allow DirecTV to send HD over their SAT to subscribers. Based, on what I read, on if you cannot receive it, but being in the K.C. area, that is being questioned.

Is that an accurate read on the events?

I live in Lawrence, and for sure cannot receive it, so I wonder if i would be successful. Interestingly I see no mention whatsoever on DirecTV.com of any possibility of getting local HD any way other than OTA. I do subscribe to DirecTV...just haven't made the expenditure for their HD equipment and monthly costs. I haven't seen enough programming there to make it worth it.

But getting Chiefs games in HD could encourage me to do so. (Uhhh, FOX is the right place for the Chiefs, isn't it?:o ) I am already getting PBS, NBC, and CBS over the air. I don't get ABC either. I've read mixed info on whether I should be able to or not, if I would get a VHF antenna.

But getting Chiefs games in HD could encourage me to do so. (Uhhh, FOX is the right place for the Chiefs, isn't it? )

Actually, there are only two Chiefs games on FOX. One on 9/19 and 10/24.

The rest are on CBS, ABC MNF, and this Sunday's game is on ESPN-HD.

The big thing for me is no Superbowl in HD when I have received it the PAST TWO YEARS from ABC and CBS.

We need to come up with an organized way to put some pressure on WDAF. After all, if we are such a small group that it's not worth turning up the power, why would they block the waiver?

For those of you with D*, it sounds like whenever they get the national HD feeds of Fox on the air, our market, as a FOX O&O will get it with no waiver required. If it works like the deal they currently have with CBS, if you're in a market that is O&O by the network (like the KC area is for FOX), you will automatically get the HD feed through D*. Since they don't carry it yet, we don't get it.

Here's a link to the CBS on D* thread - I'm sure the FOX rules will be the same.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=347953

Hope it helps.

Here is the link to DirecTV's page about the CBS National HD feed:

http://www.directv.com/see/landing/cbs_hd.html

I too have heard that the FOX National HD feed will be handled the same way. O&O Cities (KC) will get it without a wavier, otherwise, you need one.

Welcome KCOKEK- If possible a VHF/UHF attic antenna with RG-6 shielded cable into a coax ground block and then RG-6 shielded cable straight into your digital receiver works great. Amplifiers can be trouble for I have tried several and have seen good broadcast signals go way down and low broadcast signals disappear. Glad to have you here on the Kansas City HDTV forum. :)

A certain exec from BrightHouse networks posted in this thread, http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4330038#post4330038, that the ESPNHD/TWC deal is done and that it should start appearing sometime between now and the next 30 days!

Originally posted by js615
I sure hop you are right...unfortunately, this is not true according to the folks at D*TV. Also, Scott did say that would be between D*TV and and the local affiliate. If so, we are then back to the confusing mess that Joy passed to FOX Corporate. When I asked about that waiver, both Cheryl and Joy indicated it was extremely unlikely we would get such a blanket waiver from them. I am still waiting on a return call from Bob at D*TV.

Jeffdbs - have you heard anything different from WDAF?
Has anyone else contacted Comcast to see if they have plans?

I have received no-word back from WDAF in regards to a waiver. Reading the posts here it sounds like the waiver is being looked over at WDAF and FOX. If WDAF says no to a waiver I will understand some of reasons not to lose any viewers to a national feed. I just would like to hear a time frame as to when we will be able to see a full-power WDAF digital television broadcast here in the outer Kansas City metro area. FOX HDTV is going to be exciting and I just wanted to be one of the people across this country to see FOX HDTV on opening day.

Guys I want National Fox feed. I'm a 49ers fan, NFC is on Fox.

FYI

Everyone, be checking for 1505 on TWC over the next couple of hours.

I heard from a little birdy there may be a little surprise that Chiefs fans may like.

Just to verify what StingWray just heard, the TWC CS rep that I was working with for my HD DVR that keeps locking up mentioned the same thing about ESPNHD on 1505 within the hour - Sweet!

Anyone else watching the game tonight on ABC? My guide says it's in HD and 16 x 9.

I called KMBC at 816-221-9999 (option 9) and talked to some girl who thought maybe I didn't know how to work my TV...wench.

Anyhow, she said I was the only one who has called.

Anyone else got this problem, or am I stoned?

TitanTV does not show this game as being in HD.

Check this out: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=444777

Just sent this to Aaron Barnhart:

Thanks for the article Aaron.

"There is too much load on WDAF's main tower to support the antenna that broadcasts in high def, so the signal is going out weakly over a stubby backup tower."

What ticks me off about this situation is that they knew about this tower situation in the beginning of 2002 and they have done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about it. KSHB41 was on this tower also with the exact same problem. They ended up building a brand new tower as fast as possible. Excellent work on their part.

FOX4 will end up being the last station to go high power, way behind The WB and even PAX. That is sad.

-Tim

So I'm away from the forum for like 3 hours, and the big news breaks. I'm laying on my couch, scanning through the guide during a commercial of the Mia/FSU game and I see ESPN-HD on channel 1505 on TWC!!!!!!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

With this and the HD-DVR within a week, it's like Christmas - only 100x better!!!!!! My life is now complete......

thankyouthankyouthankyouthankyouthankyouthankyou

What the hell is going on??? I just saw ESPN-HD on TWC!!!!!

Is this permanent or just for the Chiefs game this Sunday????

Please please please let it be permanent...

Originally posted by pappy97
What the hell is going on??? I just saw ESPN-HD on TWC!!!!!

Is this permanent or just for the Chiefs game this Sunday????

Please please please let it be permanent...

PERMANENT!!!!!!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=444819&perpage=20&pagenumber=1

Originally posted by squeak49
My life is now complete......


HDTV is just wonderful-spread the good news :D

squeak49--same here, saw ESPN-HD show up surprisingly while flipping channels, checked the forum to find out the scoop.

Good news!!

Originally posted by JulianHtun
Guys I want National Fox feed. I'm a 49ers fan, NFC is on Fox.

I'm a 49er fan too (from the Bay Area), but I have to tell ya: Good luck seeing the Niners on FOX unless you have Sunday Ticket. Everyone projects the 49ers to be a below average team, meaning that we in the KC area won't even have a shot at seeing 49er games on FOX.

Originally posted by pappy97
I'm a 49er fan too (from the Bay Area), but I have to tell ya: Good luck seeing the Niners on FOX unless you have Sunday Ticket. Everyone projects the 49ers to be a below average team, meaning that we in the KC area won't even have a shot at seeing 49er games on FOX.

I should have been more clear. I have ST and HD Package. I don't want the game on local WDAF to black out the game on HD. 49ers games are mostly on Fox and Fox HD has 6 games per week.

Just saw ESPN when flipping through as well.

Called Time Warner and signed up for the HD package. Took about 2 minutes from the time I picked up the phone to the time I had it on my TV.

First thing I thought of is Chiefs game tomorrow.

edit: i spel gewd

Yep, to confirm, ESPNHD is now available on TWC.

UPN is getting more HDTV which is good news for Kansas City for we already have a full-power, full bandwidth 1080i UPN broadcasting thanks to KCWE. I watched "Enterprise" friday night on KCWE UPN29 DT-31 Over the Air in HDTV. Maybe we will have Dolby Digital 5.1 audio soon on UPN.:) http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=443570

TO THOSE WITH TWC'S EXPLORER 8000HD
------------------------------------------------------

* Has the DVI output worked for you? I initially set-up the box with just the DVI output (no component) and it didn't work.

If you did get it work...
* Did you use a DVI-D cable? If so, what kind/brand?
* Did you have to change a setting somewhere? I used the default.
* Did the component work at the same time?

If its not working for anyone else, any word on when it will work?

Thanks!

Welcome to 2004 TW customers!

Not very often I get to say that ;).

Starting Friday night, my 8000HD has developed some real problems. I can't playback any recorded shows! Almost every time I try to play a show, HD or SD, it just displays a gray screen and the controls lock up. If I wait about 3 minutes, it'll reboot.

I've tried everything, including unplugging the unit and waiting about a half hour before powering back on. This did work one time, but for the most part it's dead.

I'm going to exchange it tomorrow, but wondered if anyone else was having these problems. The wierd thing is that it started right after ESPNHD was turned on. I'm sure it's a coincidence, but it's very odd.

No Fox HD on DirecTV yet!
Unlike the CBS options offered on channels 80 and 81 in CBS owned & operated markets it doesn't look like Fox and DirecTV have come to a similar agreement yet for showing the Fox HD programming in its O&O markets. I had hoped this would become active with the start of the NFL season.

What really stinks is that even if you have NFL Sunday Ticket the game being broadcast on WDAF Fox 4 today - Cardinals vs. Rams - is blacked out based on the normal black out rules. Maybe that particular game isn't available in HD this week but even so if the O&O automatic waiver process was in place for the HD programming we should see the channel assignments show up just like the did for CBS HD last year. When it went live DirecTV also had an information channel explaining the agreement and that the channels would automatically be made available to those eligible.

Let's hope an agreement gets in place so we can watch the FOX HD programming.

Originally posted by JulianHtun
I should have been more clear. I have ST and HD Package. I don't want the game on local WDAF to black out the game on HD. 49ers games are mostly on Fox and Fox HD has 6 games per week.

I get it now. In that case, you better hope that the 49ers never appear on WDAF. Of course I hope otherwise.

I was just reading some of the NFL threads and some people are mad because their local fox affiliate doesn't do HD, so they are trying to watch that game their local FOX is broadcast using ST and the HD feed is blacked out on Sunday Ticket. (One of the people complaining was in Iowa, so this has nothing to do with the standard NFL blackout rules)

Apparently the rule that if your local FOX affiliate carries the game, you won't be able to see it on Sunday Ticket. Thus, if in a given week, the 49ers appear on WDAF, you won't be able to see the HD feed of that game unless you go via OTA (not an option) or cable (again, not an option for ya.

Originally posted by DTSfan
No Fox HD on DirecTV yet!
Unlike the CBS options offered on channels 80 and 81 in CBS owned & operated markets it doesn't look like Fox and DirecTV have come to a similar agreement yet for showing the Fox HD programming in its O&O markets. I had hoped this would become active with the start of the NFL season.

What really stinks is that even if you have NFL Sunday Ticket the game being broadcast on WDAF Fox 4 today - Cardinals vs. Rams - is blacked out based on the normal black out rules. Maybe that particular game isn't available in HD this week but even so if the O&O automatic waiver process was in place for the HD programming we should see the channel assignments show up just like the did for CBS HD last year. When it went live DirecTV also had an information channel explaining the agreement and that the channels would automatically be made available to those eligible.

Let's hope an agreement gets in place so we can watch the FOX HD programming.

Cardinals vs. Rams today is NOT in HD. The late game on FOX-WDAF, Dallas vs. Minnesota?, is HD. That would be a proper test.

Most likely, based on the NFL threads I've been reading in the HDTV Programming Forum, that game's HD feed WILL be blacked out on Sunday Ticket. Sorry.

Jayhawk,

I had a similar event occur last night. Differed only in that, after playing around with LIST/LIVE/PLAY/STOP/etc., I unplugged, then replugged the box without waiting longer than the "30 second pause".

After booting and loading, the scheduled programs were retained, as well as the recordings. The recording I was going to play came up and asked if I wanted to resume playback, so it had set that flag (or whatever) in that recording.

Girls reported no problems today with their recorded shows.



-C-F

As noted by Pappy97, the early Fox game for KC was not an HD broadcast.

I'm pleased to report that the Cowboy - Vikings game on FOX IS available in HD via the NFL Sunday ticket even though WDAF FOX 4 is showing the standard definition game. At least they aren't blacking it out for subscribers to the NFL Sunday Ticket. I would still prefer to get an OTA FOX HD signal.

Come on WDAF & FOX, get together with DirecTV just like CBS did for its owned & operated stations so the Fox HD programming can be offered directly to DirecTV subscribers. After all, we've invested in all of the equipment to receive HD - OTA or DirecTV and only the silly broadcast rules are preventing us from getting the national feed.

Originally posted by DTSfan
I'm pleased to report that the Cowboy - Vikings game on FOX IS available in HD via the NFL Sunday ticket even though WDAF FOX 4 is showing the standard definition game. At least they aren't blacking it out for subscribers to the NFL Sunday Ticket.

I posted too soon! The NFL ticket HD channel was good until 4:43, at which time it was blacked out with the standard "Program not available in your area" message that appears when the blackout rules are applied.

Originally posted by Jayhawk
Starting Friday night, my 8000HD has developed some real problems. I can't playback any recorded shows! Almost every time I try to play a show, HD or SD, it just displays a gray screen and the controls lock up. If I wait about 3 minutes, it'll reboot....


Jayhawk,

I am having the same exact issue and I came to the forum to see if its just me! The issue occurred while taping Sports Center on ESPN HD and trying to watch an HD movie from INHD.

After several reboots, I stopped recording Sports Center and the movie playback worked fine. I then tried taping another movie on INHD (worked fine) and then hit playback on recorded movie AND IT WORKED! When I then tried to add taping Sports Center (a second taping, which worked), it then locked up the machine when I tried to watch the recorded movie again.

After another reboot, I stopped recording Sports Center and tried recording two channels, other than ESPN HD, while watching a movie. AND IT WORKED FINE!!

For me, the culprit seems to be ESPN HD. Odd, no? Ideas, anyone?

HCIV

PS - Can anyone help on the DVI issues?

I am watching the Chiefs/Broncos game on ESPN-HD on TWC...looks pretty good, but no DD 5.1 sound...what's the deal? I can't be the only one not getting DD5.1 sound via TWC ESPNHD...that ticks me off a bit...I want the entire ESPN HD Sunday Night Football experience, ya know?

Addendum: The picture actually also is not impressing me...seems a bit soft...oh well, I still want DD5.1 and we're not getting it...

My understanding is ESPN-HD does not have Dolby Digital 5.1. ESPN-HD has Circle Surround 5.1 which will show up as Dolby Digital 2.0 on a audio receiver that does not decode the new Circle Surround format now starting to appear on some of the new audio receivers.

Originally posted by jeffdbs
Welcome KCOKEK- If possible a VHF/UHF attic antenna with RG-6 shielded cable into a coax ground block and then RG-6 shielded cable straight into your digital receiver works great. Amplifiers can be trouble for I have tried several and have seen good broadcast signals go way down and low broadcast signals disappear. Glad to have you here on the Kansas City HDTV forum. :)

Thanks for the greetings and advice. Glad to be here.

I concur with Jeff. ESPN-HD does not do DD 5.1.

For the DirecTV customers, the FOX HD National feed may not be the answer to all your prayers. Check out this scenario:

The Chiefs game on FOX HD is next Sunday. WDAF will show it in HD on their weak OTA digital channel. This HD game will be blacked out on Sunday Ticket. The FOX HD National feed (when up and running) will be a broadcast of WNYW FOX5 in New York City. If you're lucky they may choose to show the Chiefs game, but chances are they will show one of the other three games that are on at the same time.

I just wanted to make you all aware that the National FOX HD Feed on DirecTV is not going to be the complete answer.

The complete answer is a FULL POWER OTA FOX STATION IN KC!!!!!!

Originally posted by hciv
Jayhawk,

For me, the culprit seems to be ESPN HD. Odd, no? Ideas, anyone?

HCIV


I think you may be right on ESPNHD because it started on Friday night. I called TW and was told to "unplug the DVR overnight so the harddrive will reset. All programs and scheduled recordings will be lost." I haven't done it yet because I need to write down my "season passes" but am also skeptical about whether or not this will actually do what he says it will.

Anyone else have this problem or know if this CSR was correct?