On one of the various threads complaining about KCTV's lack of HD, someone mentioned that there didn't appear to be an "Official" Kansas City HDTV thread. So, I've decided to create one. Feel free to use this thread to comment about any of the Kansas City area DTV stations. They are:

ADMIN EDIT: This is the latest info as of 9 oct 05

4.1 WDAF-DT 720P 34 FOX-HD 720P
5.1 KCTV-DT 1080I 24 CBS-HD 1080I
9.1 KMBC-DT 720P 7 ABC-HD 720P
19.1 KCPT-DT 720P 18 PBS-HD 1080I
19.2 KCPT-DT 480 18 PBS 480I
29.1 KCWE-DT 1080I 31 UPN-HD 1080I
38.1 KMCI-DT 1080I 36 INDEPENDENT
41.1 KSHB-DT 1080I 42 NBC-HD 1080I
50.1-4 KPXE-DT 480 51 "I" 480I
62.1 KSMO-DT 1080I 47 WB-HD 1080I

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The following is the old info that was posted when this thread was started:

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KMBC-DT ABC (Analog 9 - Digital 7)

KMBC-DT is broadcasting on VHF channel 7 at 85,000 watts. They are passing ABC's 720P programming.

KCTV-DT CBS (Analog 5 - Digital 21)

KCTV-DT is broadcast on UHF channel 21 at 225,000 watts from a temporary antenna. KCTV-DT is only passing the station's 480i signal.

KCPT-DT PBS (Analog 19 - Digital 18)

KCPT-DT is broadcast on UHF channel 18 at 48,000 watts. Currently, they are multicasting 4 480i, 4:3 channels. Occasionally, they pass new PBS HD programming in 1080i.

WDAF-DT Fox (Analog 4 - Digital 34)

WDAF-DT is broadcast on UHF channel 34 at a 1,100 watts. Eventually they will be 100,000 watts, but currently they are at 2000 watts with a test antenna. They do not expect to be at full power until KSHB moves off the WDAF tower..

Fox produces nothing in HD. The highest quality format Fox transmits is 16:9 480P. This is the format they used for the 2002 Super Bowl.

KCWE-DT UPN (Analog 29 - Digital 31)

KCWE-DT is broadcast on UHF channel 31 at 525,000 watts.

UPN does not produce any HD yet or even 480P widescreen. KCWE is currently upconverting their programming from 480i to 720P.

KSMO-DT WB (Analog 62 - Digital 47)

KSMO-DT is broadcast on UHF channel 47 at 9,000 watts.

Sadly, KSMO-DT had an HD encoder when they first went on the air, but the station owner removed it and sent it to KSMO's sister station in St. Louis. Their chief engineer is a fan of HD, and hopes to convince management to replace it soon.

Not yet on

KSHB-DT NBC (Analog 41 - Digital 42)

KSHB-DT will eventually be broadcast on UHF channel 42. Adjacent channels, like KCPT's analog 19 - digital 18, require both antennas to be at the same location. KSHB's analog transmitter is on the WDAF tower. Their application states that the WDAF tower would require "extensive strengthening" to support both a full-power WDAF-DT and KSHB-DT. Their other alternative is to build a new tower. According to reports, it is currently under construction.

Feel free to correct this information, and I'll incorporate the changes.

Good work Chris. Do you know if there is any "official" word that KSHB-DT will broadcast in 1080i when they go live, supposedly in June? I know we discussed on the other thread that it would be suicide for them to consider multi-casting SD but I don't believe I've heard an official plan from them. Thanks.

Also, according to titantv, it looks like KCMI and KPXE are going live this spring. Any information on these stations and their proposed broadcast plan?

Digital Stations Coming Soon
IND 36 KMCI-DT Apr 1 2003 (KSHB sister station - same SD/HD broadcasts??)
NBC 42 KSHB-DT Apr 1 2003 (extension filed for Sept 1st - rumored to go live June 1st)
PAX 51 KPXE-DT May 1 2003
PBS 23 KTWU-DT May 1 2003
TBN 21 KTAJ-DT Under Review

Comcast Cable is planning on launching HDTV this Spring 2003. Comcast is just about ready to roll and has started a list of customers to receive their first shipment of HDTV set-top-boxes. HDTV is moving forward in Kansas City. Best Buy is really starting to push their Over-the-Air set top boxes with the OTA boxes now on display next to the HDTV's. HDTV's are down to $699.00 at Best Buy along with Sears, Walmart, Brandsmarts, Radio Shack, Circuit City and many other business selling HDTV'S. Sears and Walmart are also selling Dish Network Model 6000 OTA boxes in some of their stores.

Originally posted by macman
Also, according to titantv, it looks like KCMI and KPXE are going live this spring. Any information on these stations and their proposed broadcast plan?

KMCI is an independent station, also owned by Scipps-Howard along with KSHB (NBC). The two digital and two analog transmitters for the two stations will all share a new tower near Hillcrest Country Club (about 81st and Blue River Road). I would suspect that the digital transmitters will go online first, with the analogs to be moved afterward, but I'm just guessing. KSHB is shooting for June 1 for their digital signal to be up.

As for programming, KMCI-36 will probably be all SD, or upconverted HD, similar to KSMO-47 and KCWE-31. They have a 9:00 pm newscast produced by KSHB, but don't really share any other programming (that I know of) with them.

Hopefully, when KSHB (analog) leaves the WDAF tower in midtown, WDAF-DT will install a new antenna up high on their tower and bump up power to something we can actually RECEIVE!

Brad

Comcast is just about ready to roll and has started a list of customers to receive their first shipment of HDTV set-top-boxes.

Just got off the phone with a Comcast sales rep and it was his understanding that they have all the head-end equipment in place, but were waiting on STBs. I asked about putting my name on the waiting list, but he said they weren't doing that yet. He didn't have any pricing or packaging information.

--Gary

Gary, you are right on the list for Comcast STB's. Comcast called my parents today. (my parents live in Blue Springs and I had called early this week on Comcast HDTV and was told about a waiting list for HDTV STB's. The CSR wrote down my parents name and said Comcast would call back when the HDTV STB's were in stock) The CSR spoke with my mother today and explained they are not going to have an HDTV STB's waiting list and to watch for a announcement when the HDTV STB'S are in stock.:confused: Thanks for the correction.

I spoke with a CSR from Everest yesterday and they indicated that they would be rolling out the HD set-top-boxes at the beginning of June. Although a little later than anticipated it's good to see Everest finally getting in the game, especially since it's been about a year that Time Warner rolled out their HD-STBs.

This is good news for the Kansas City area. The cable companies are doing their part to get HDTV going in this area. Hopefully they will join in the fight against stations like KCTV with their SD-only mentality.

When speaking with the representative from Everest he was not sure of the HD channels that will be available. Has anyone heard from Time Warner or Comcast if they will offer ESPN-HD, HD-Discovery, HDNET, or any other non-OTA broadcasts anytime soon? Time Warner seems to be the HD cable pioneer around here but I haven't heard a plan from them on these other HD channels.

Originally posted by macman
I spoke with a CSR from Everest yesterday and they indicated that they would be rolling out the HD set-top-boxes at the beginning of June. Although a little later than anticipated it's good to see Everest finally getting in the game, especially since it's been about a year that Time Warner rolled out their HD-STBs.
That's great news! An article in the paper about Everest not having enough capital to continue expanding their service area as agressively as they had been has been widely misinterpeted as "they are going out of business". I switched my brother to Everest from Time-Warner/Roadrunner and have been very impressed with their system and speed. I was dreading going back to Time-Warner just to get the HD channels.

I was dreading going back to Time-Warner just to get the HD channels.

I feel the same way. It was tough giving up the HD cable service from TW but their analog signal in my area was terrible. Seeing the clear analog channels after switching to Everest was a whole new TV watching experience. Also, TW has a serious congestion problem with their internet nodes. Throw in the fact that I said goodbye to SBC & MCI and am saving about 30% per month and it was a fairly easy decision to make the switch.

Everest has set a new standard in the communications industry with the bundled packages (internet, cable, phone, long distance) at about half to two-thirds the total cost. And the fact they laid new fiber/coax from scratch gives them a clear technological (bandwidth) advantage. It's good to finally have some competition with existing cable & phone providers.

Back on topic: I've been calling them about twice every month since October on their HDTV roll-out plans and always received different answers, but the consensus was always a spring/summer time frame. The guy I talked to didn't hesitate when I asked him about it and said it would be the first of June when the HD set-top-boxes would be available. For all previous calls there was never any mention about the HD STBs, only about the HD service in general. Anyway, I'll probably call again next week to confirm this but it does sound promising.

Great news about Everest indeed! If they get all fo the HD chans up that TW does than the decision to switch will be an easy one.

Everest appears to have a clue about technology (as opposed to Time-Warner which continues to annoy me with their stealth war on VPNs). I'm curious if Everest would have someone in the public relations department who could post here. They are going to need beta testers for their HD service, and AVS Forum is the best source of those.

I work fairly close to the Everest service center in Lenexa, which I believe is where they house their cable equipment. I'll try and stop by this week during lunch and poke around. I've been meaning to stop by anyway ever since they rolled out their recording set-top-boxes. First priority is to get confirmation about the June HD roll-out date from someone other than customer service. If they are go for June, I'll try and get some contacts in the PR and tech department and see if we can get them involved with this board regarding beta testing.

Has anyone noticed a drop in signal strength on KCTV DT-24 OTA? My DT-24 signal strength has dropped from 95% to 52% While all the other stations have stayed the same. Thanks

Originally posted by jeffdbs
Has anyone noticed a drop in signal strength on KCTV DT-24 OTA? My DT-24 signal strength has dropped from 95% to 52% While all the other stations have stayed the same. Thanks

Yes, KCTV takes 5-10 seconds to lock on these days. My "strength" numbers are usually 28-52% (on Dish 6K). BTW, I usually watch KCTV with the SD (S-video) connection. Since it's 480i anyway, my TV (Hitachi) does a better job displaying it than it does with an upconverted 1080i image from the 6K. The 1080i picture has multiple "ghost" images to the right of the main image (most visible on vertical lines), and it drives me crazy. (As if thinking about KCTV's HD policy didn't do that anyway!)

Brad

Originally posted by Bradtothebone
The 1080i picture has multiple "ghost" images to the right of the main image (most visible on vertical lines), and it drives me crazy.
I've noticed the exact same problem on a friend's Mitsubishi setup. Hard to believe any self-respecting broadcast engineer would allow a situation like that to continue.

But on the other hand, KMBC-DT's upconverted material is rife with chroma-crawl. I've spoken with them, and the engineer insists that the connection to the upconverter is SDI. But the only actual broadcast-quality HD monitor they have is actually at the transmitter.

Yeah Chris, I know what you mean. In comparison, WIBW's upconverts look excellent in my opinion. Their 10 PM newscast looks awesome compared to KMBC.

Bad news from Everest. I spoke with a gal in their Marketing department today regarding their HD roll-out and was told that it will be next year before they will provide HD services. I told her about the service rep that told me the first of June and she indicated that was their original plan.

We discussed the Time-Warner and Comcast HD availability and her response was HDTV isn't their highest priority at the moment. It seems their financial tightening might be the root cause for this decision. I can understand their situation but this definitely puts a dent in their competitiveness with Time-Warner/Comcast with those who have/will be purchasing HD ready sets.

hdtimmy,

Fellow Olathean here! Send me a PM with your email, I'd like to discuss HD in Olathe with you before I make a purchase, please.

Alan

I talked to an engineer at KCTV and I was told they plan to have the equipment in place in approximately 6 months to pass on the HD signal from the network. Hopefully in time for the Chiefs games.
In the meantime we will only be able to view KMBC-DT and KCPT-HD in high def since no one can pickup the WDAF-DT signal.

I talked to an engineer at KCTV and I was told they plan to have the equipment in place in approximately 6 months to pass on the HD signal from the network. Hopefully in time for the Chiefs games.
In the meantime we will only be able to view KMBC-DT and KCPT-HD in high def since no one can pickup the WDAF-DT signal.

What?? When did this happen?? Chris just spoke with Dan Somes, Chief Engineer at KCTV at the end of February and they were still talking about budgets and multi-casting SD. Is this who you spoke with?

This is good news if true. I wonder if the Phoenix and Nashville Meredith persuasion finally carried over to KCTV.

Wasn't the same guy. Unfortunately, I didn't write down the name but it was someone else. I was told that it was not in the budget for now but they hoped they would be able to broadcast in HD within 6 months.

Regarding WDAF-DT, can anyone in the KC area receive it?

And is the timeline for KSHB's digital programming (June) confirmed?

i can get WDAF, and at 480p - it's not bad. But i'm pretty close in (119th & Switzer) at the top of a hill in my sub....but i don't know of anyone else who can receive it at this point.

Kendal

I "receive" Fox through Time Warner Cable (comes in 100% :) ). It certainly looks a lot worse than HD, but it is nice to be able to watch one of my favorite shows (24) in 16:9... You could really tell a big difference in the football broadcasts during the playoffs between Fox and ABC. Wish I could have seen CBS.

I've set two antennas up that are currently receiving WDAF-DT. One is on top of a 5 story building in downtown KC, with direct line of site to WDAF's backup antenna tower. The other is in Rosedale.

As far as KCTV's excuses, I know what I heard. The reception equipment was supplied by CBS. It was available in either HD or SD. KCTV specifically asked for an SD rack. The "it costs too much to add HD programming" line is utter nonsense. KMBC, KCTV's direct competitor, is passing ABC's HD signal and upconverting their local programming, as they should. But they are also digitally broadcasting KCWE-DT/UPN and are upconverting all that programming to HD, even though UPN produces no HD material.

If an HD encoder and whatever unspecified "additional staffing" costs are so great, why would KCWE possibly gain by incurring this expense? Because the truth is, the additional costs are negligable. Edward King and his staff at KMBC/KCWE are handling 4 transmitters (two analog, two digital) with no additional staff. There is no additional sales staff to sell programming for the digital channels.

KCTV is, to put it bluntly, full of it and are trying to blow smoke up our collective butts.

I suspect what Meredith and KCTV are waiting for is an 1080i time compresser.

Yes it is a race to see which local network will be the first broadcast station in Kansas City to show the Chiefs in HDTV. I believe the first ABC Monday night football preseason game is the Chiefs. The bragging rights will last for 10 years for which ever station broadcast the Chiefs locally in HDTV first. I just don't see KCTV 5 standing by and letting KMBC ABC HDTV football getting all the glory this fall. With ESPN-HD (ABC) about to launch along with ABC Monday night football, HDTV will be the buzz word in local KC sports bars, television retailers and home football television fans. Market share is the Holy Grail with advertisers especially loyal football fans with HDTV's.

Got this off of the Kansas City Chiefs website:

"FEB 11 (afternoon)--The National Football League officially announced the Chiefs 2003 preseason opponents on Tuesday. Kansas City will kick off its 2003 preseason schedule against Green Bay in Canton, Ohio at the Hall of Fame game on Monday, August 4th (7:00 PM CT) at Pro Football Hall of Fame Field at Fawcett Stadium. The contest will be televised nationally by ABC’s Monday Night Football crew and will mark the club’s third appearance in the Hall of Fame Game."

Since ABC is broadcasting all of the Monday Night Football games this season in high def this will be fantastic to watch on the best local HD station, KMBC-DT.

I guess I should have done a little more homework.

So, help me out here, are there any stations in the KC area broadcasting the networks HD signal?

Thanks

See Chris Williams post on the previous page.

At this time only KMBC-DT is passing the networks HD signal in 720p. Occasionally KCPT-DT will pass the PBS HD signal in 1080i.

The Kansas City Star is going to run an article on HDTV in Kansas City in Wednesday FYI section. http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/

Here it is!!

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/entertainment/columnists/aaron_barnhart/5421864.htm

I think it is VERY accurate, besides the quote that someone was able to get WDAF-DT in Topeka!! This person in Topeka must have a killer antenna system.

To all of the people involved that made this article happen, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!

Sweet! I'm glad Aaron was finally able to do a positive article on HD. Probably knocking KCTV was the angle that works for the Star. I've not been keeping up with tracking time compression, as I spent last weekend rebuilding my AV system, but hopefully we'll be able to catch them doing so.

It might be possible to pick up WDAF-DT in Topeka...with a great antenna...mounted very high up...and very favorable tropo conditions.

And then there's KCTV. The station made a big deal about going to digital, even leading its newscasts with a report showing management flipping the switch on KCTV-DT. Since then, however, the CBS affiliate has made itself the least popular digital broadcaster in the area.

CBS promotes hi-def TV more aggressively than any other network. Every night it sends affiliates hi-def versions of all its prime-time shows, including "CSI" and "Everybody Loves Raymond." And every night KCTV-DT "downconverts" the network's signal to standard definition before sending it over the air.

By contrast, viewers of WIBW-DT in Topeka have been enjoying all the CBS programming in beautiful hi-def. Needless to say, this really cheeses hi-def owners in Kansas City.

"KCTV has chosen to take the cheap and easy way out," said Ed Manning. "I don't understand why a major market like Kansas City is so far behind the HDTV frontier."

A spokesman for KCTV's owner, Meredith Corp., said there were "no current plans" to change that policy, adding, "At this time we don't see the demand necessary to meet this (added) investment."

Very nice write-up against KCTV. Whether or not this will open any eyes at KCTV/Meredith remains to be seen.

Overall, the article was well written and seemed to address all the concerns with the current state of HDTV in Kansas City. It's good to have someone like Aaron on our side.

One point that I would have liked to have seen brought out in the article is in regards to the stations' claim that there are not enough HD sets out there yet to justify the expense of them getting the equipment to broadcast HD: Maybe more people would buy HD sets if there was more HD content to watch. I personally know several people who would like to get an HDTV, but haven't done so because they don't think there's enough HD to watch in order to justify it. Catch-22.

Hey Chris, since you are out of town, I wanted to let you know that the web link that I sent out does not do this article any justice.

It is on the FRONT PAGE of the FYI section of the Star. It covers most of the front page. There is a huge 6x10 inch picture of a Sony HDTV at Brandsmart.

Continued on page 7 is a chart showing each channel, their signal strength low or high, HD yes or no, additional comments, and wether they are on Time Warner Cable or not.

Also, and this is my favorite part, there is a picture of a scene from Everybody Loves Raymond. Here is the caption, "CBS sends affiliates hi-def versions of all its prime-time shows, including Everybody Loves Raymond. And every night KCTV-DT downconverts the network's signal to standard definition before sending it over the air."

This is so awesome. This brings such joy to my life in a world that needs all the joy it can get right now.

That is awesome! I hope someone's ears are burning over at KCTV today!

Be sure to let Aaron know how much we like his article on HDTV in The Kansas City Star. His web site is http://www.tvbarn.com Also their is more information on Kansas City HDTV. Click on the article on HDTV on the tvbarn website. Thanks

Originally posted by hdtimmy
Hey Chris, since you are out of town, I wanted to let you know that the web link that I sent out does not do this article any justice.
Cool! I'm headed to KC right now, so I'll pick up a copy of the Star when I get to KCI.

It is on the FRONT PAGE of the FYI section of the Star. It covers most of the front page. There is a huge 6x10 inch picture of a Sony HDTV at Brandsmart.
Very cool (and not just because I consult with Brandsmart).


Also, and this is my favorite part, there is a picture of a scene from Everybody Loves Raymond. Here is the caption, "CBS sends affiliates hi-def versions of all its prime-time shows, including Everybody Loves Raymond. And every night KCTV-DT downconverts the network's signal to standard definition before sending it over the air."
Very sweet indeed! I'm glad all the noise we've made has had an impact.


This is so awesome. This brings such joy to my life in a world that needs all the joy it can get right now.
I can hardly wait to see the Oscars in HD. It's a shame that the red carpet part will be cut short. Hopefully we won't have the same situation where stunningly beautiful women like Jennifer Connelly will dress drably...as if people in an essentially frivolous profession can suddenly become deep and meaningful by dressing differently. Hollywood has an obligation to remain Hollywood, as far as I'm concerned.

The Kansas City Star has a opinion section which people air their opinions on recent articles in the Kansas City Star. Please let Kansas City know your opinions on HDTV in Kansas City.

Once a cowtown, always a cowtown. I hope the article in the Star makes its way to the pinheads at KCTV.

I'm in KC now, and am please to see that the article has a pointer on the upper right hand corner of the front page of the paper!

I thought the article was surprisingly accurate, also. In my experience, whenever you know something about a subject the STAR writes about, you can almost always find MANY inaccuracies, but not this time. I was especially pleased to see KCTV skewered!

Can anyone think of any way to quantify the number of HDTV-capable households in the KC area? That would be a very interesting number to know.

Brad

I'd love to hear any feedback from KCTV on their reaction to the ariticle. Anyone want to give Dan Somes (Chief Engineer) at KCTV a call and report back his thoughts?? (Chris, you up for it?)

I just called Comcast and the guy told me that they just had a meeting yesterday because they recieved a shipment of 600 HD boxes. He said that they don't yet have the reservation system setup, but that I should be able to call in and reserve a box in 1 week. The only bad thing is that they will only initially offer 2-3 channels in HD. He said abc and showtime were sure things and they were just finalizing the agreement with PBS.

Originally posted by macman
I'd love to hear any feedback from KCTV on their reaction to the ariticle. Anyone want to give Dan Somes (Chief Engineer) at KCTV a call and report back his thoughts?? (Chris, you up for it?)
I probably shouldn't. I've spent the past 3 days struggling to receive WIBW-DT with no luck. A 36' tower, a 50 element Antennacraft UHF corner reflector, Channelmaster preamp (thanks to HDTimmy - PM me). As KCTV is the cause of a lot of pain, I'm not feeling very charitable and would probably say what I feel - which is not a good idea.

Bizzare results. Last night I determined that I wasn't going to be defeated. At 8:00 AM, I went back onto the roof and raised it another 10 feet and put in another set of guy wires to get it as stable as possible. At 10:00 AM I had success! I managed to get a signal strength of 51 (out of 100) on the RCA DTC-100. I was watching WIBW-DT news. By 11:00, the picture had disappeared and I'm getting a signal strength of 22 and it's bouncing between "--" and "22". It's 11:45 now, and I'm still at bouncing 22. I've tried a different receiver with no luck.

What's going on? I'm well grounded, the antenna is level. The tower is level and solid. Is this just a matter of getting more height, or is it possible that I'm just getting some serious interference? Will I get a solid picture when the sun goes down?

Hey,

Just purchased a samsung t165 out here in lawrence and I'm trying to pull in wibw from topeka....What ant. do you guys think I will need to pull it in? I'm assuming that they aren't broadcasting very strong because I've got a silver sensor and its not pulling in anything from 44 pointed in the correct direction. I have the silver sensor up in my loft. I'm really pissed off at KCTV and want to give them a piece of my mind. What do you guys think of writing up a flyer and putting it in the golf shops, bars, etc? MARCH MADNESS AND MASTERS IN HDTV but KCTV IS DOWNCONVERTING!. Something to get KCTV to pay attention to us.

Wel, for a start, with a signal this weak and this far, you are going to have to bite the bullet and put it outside. Any roof is going to cost you at least 25% of any potential signal. And the Silver Sensor is not very directional. A multibay bow-tie or corner reflector is going to give you the directionality to reject the much stronger channel 41 signal coming from KC.

For KCTV5, the golf shops idea is great! Mike Darby of Coach's had the wonderful idea of making up a "poor box", to collect funds to help poor, poor KCTV buy the HD encoder they can't afford. It would embarrass the hell out of them. If we could get one into a golf shop, I could just imagine some CEO or CFO of one of KCTV's advertisers seeing it, and mentioning it to Kirk Black. Shame can be a powerful tool.

Could I suggest that we consider getting a group of KC HD fans together soon? Possibly at Coach's?

Could I suggest that we consider getting a group of KC HD fans together soon? Possibly at Coach's?
Count me in.

nick121314:

I'm in Lawrence at approximately 27th & Inverness and have been picking up WIBW-DT very well (even stayed up during the hail storm last week) with a Terk TV-55 in the attic (about 18ft above ground level).

That's not to endorse the Terk (it doesn't pick up anything else consistently), it's just to say that WIBW-DT is definitely broadcasting strong enough to be well-received in Lawrence.

I'm getting ready to replace it with a Channel Master 4221 4-Bay UHF Bowtie antenna, though, so that I can also pick up KSNT-DT. When researching this, several people also suggested to me a UHF Yagi, but the UHF Yagis are too large to fit in my attic.

The poor box is a great idea!

Chris,

How does analog FOX43 look with your antenna system at Coach's? Any strange interference?

Are the 41 and 38 traps making any bit of a difference? They certainly did for me.

I was having the same frustrating problems that you are having. Sometimes it would come in just fine. Other days, AT THE EXACT SAME TIME, I wouldn't even get a blip.

Here's my overall results before I gave up:
Mornings - rarely came in
Afternoons - never came in
Evenings (PrimeTime) - came in maybe once a week, 50% strength
Nights (David Letterman) - came in almost every night, 50-60%

-Tim

Originally posted by hdtimmy
Chris,

How does analog FOX43 look with your antenna system at Coach's? Any strange interference?
I need to look at it. It's a pain to test signals at Coach's, as the office is so small and crowded, and everyone constantly needing to use the monitor to tune in another game.


Are the 41 and 38 traps making any bit of a difference? They certainly did for me.
Yeah, the difference between night and day. I've located a channel 44 bandpass filter as well, but it is $160 and the experimental budget is exhusted.

I was having the same frustrating problems that you are having. Sometimes it would come in just fine. Other days, AT THE EXACT SAME TIME, I wouldn't even get a blip.
I was getting a good, solid signal that morning. I need to visit there a few evenings to make sure it comes in well after dark.

Had you tried a corner reflector Yagi and rotator?

Chris (or others) - did you make any additional progress on getting WIBW out of Topeka to work here in KC??

I finally got my stb back (actually, they sent me a refurb) from Mitsu the other day - so now my focus will turn to seeing if I can get CBS HD - WIBW - to work. I'm at 119th & Switzer (Overland Park - out south as we say here) the top of a hill in my sub, with no trees in the way (that I know of) and a very clear line of sight to the west.

I'm pulling in everything else very well here - including WDAF-DT - but that's off of a RS attic antenna. I was thinking about using the "double" RS UHF only setup that I've seen referenced here a few times - very directional - and pulls in signals (according to the thread) from 60+ miles in CA. I'll have to check the printout again, but I think I'm 72 miles from the Topeka transmitter site.

Suggestions??, I know Bradtothebone has tried this without success - he's further west than I, but my location is significantly higher - so I'm hopeful.

Thanks for any/all help.

Kendal

Has anyone heard or seen any reaction from KCTV regarding Aaron Barnhart's article in the Star?

It would be interesting to know if they even noticed or just don't care.

I live in overland park and am just learning about HD access. I have a mit hd ready tv with directv and time warner cable. I know I will have to get an hd box, probably the hughes or samsung. My question is what else do i need to do to get HD in kansas city?

Can I get the local stations in hd from time warner? Or do I have to get an antenna and go OTA? If I need to get an antenna with where I am at do I need an inside or outside antenna? Which would you recommend?

Anyway, thanks for your help.

i think twc has some hd - probably KMBC, KCPT, and KCTV (they're not really HD - see previous detail in this thread), but that's about it - my previous experience with them wasn't good, their analogs pretty well stink, but maybe they're better now. Anyway with TWC, you'll need their hd stb and that may also get you hbo, showtime, ??? - but i'm not sure - you'll have to check with them.

Again, the OTA situation here isn't very good = a std rooftop/attic antenna will do just as well OTA as anything - all the stations are close and relatively easy to pull in. if you're in OP, you may be able to get WDAF - their power is really low, but I can get them just fine here.

hope that helps.

Kendal

Originally posted by fcsmith
One point that I would have liked to have seen brought out in the article is in regards to the stations' claim that there are not enough HD sets out there yet to justify the expense of them getting the equipment to broadcast : Maybe more people would buy HD sets if there was more HD content to watch. I personally know several people who would like to get an HDTV, but haven't done so because they don't think there's enough HD to watch in order to justify it. Catch-22.

I live in Olathe and am currently using Comcast Digital for TV viewing. However, in our dedicated theater I have a HDTV compatible Sony front projection system.

I will NOT upgrade my other direct view or RPTV's until HD is fluent throughout the KC area. No sense in it. Why purchase equipment now, when my choice of viewing is so limiting. Why would I buy a Jaguar, if I had no road to drive upon?

If Kansas City would shed it's "Cow Town" mentality...and start playing catch up with technology, including HDTV and mass transit, it would certainly be a more appealing environment for the hundreds that move here each year to capitalize on our corporate foundations and economic growth.

The KC Chiefs 2003 schedule is out and unless KCTV gets their act together before the season starts we're out of luck in viewing much HD Chiefs football.
There are only two games being broadcast on ABC Monday Night Football in HD, one pre-season and one regular season game. The rest of the games will be on CBS (KCTV), Fox, and ESPN with the majority on CBS. I doubt if Fox4 will have their new antenna ready for their two games by then and who knows who'll be able to get the one ESPN game.
And we all know about KCTV's so-called financial situation that prevents them from providing us with HD. They will be carrying 16 Chiefs games!

Maybe CBS will have come down on them by then.

Since CBS will only broadcast one HD game per week (I think), chances are pretty good that, at most, 2 or 3 Chiefs' games will be on CBS HD, anyway, so we won't be missing much. We DO, however, get TWO HD games in one week:

October 20, Chiefs at Oakland (ABC), and
October 26, Bills at Chiefs (ESPN).

This assumes, of course, that ESPN-HD is available by then (pretty good bet).

As for the ones on FAUX, I've never seen their 480p widescreen, but my channel 4 analog looks pretty good.

I'm already getting pumped for football season!

Brad

unless KCTV gets their act together before the season starts we're out of luck in viewing much HD Chiefs football.

Unfortunately the ball is in our court to make them get their act together. Measures are currently being taken (per the kctvsucks (http://groups.msn.com/kctvsucks/) forum) which hopefully will give KCTV no choice but to carry the HD signal, but we need to keep hitting them from all fronts. And we definitely need to act now to give them enough time to purchase and implement the HD equipment in time for (pro/college) football season.

Chris has recently notified an executive at CBS about the situation but it's not clear if we'll see any results from this. In the meanwhile, the more people that are involved in this campaign and the more KCTV/Meredith is aware of our dissatisfaction, the more affective we will be. It would also be nice if we had the support of HDTV retailers (CC, BB, Brandsmart, etc.) and local Bar/Restaurant owners to voice their opinion to KCTV on this matter. These retailers/services should have a serious interest in this matter especially when it comes to Chiefs football. The KCStar did a great job in the recent HD article but we need to build on that and keep the momentum going until KCTV cracks.

We've seen this done in Nashville and Phoenix and there is no reason why we can't get it done in Kansas City.

Got this heads up from Aaron Barnhart.

He has another article running in the Star tomorrow regarding KCTV's lack of HD. Has to do with a fellow in Shawnee who's installed an antenna to receive WIBW the CBS affiliate in Topeka that broadcasts in 1080i.

I love to hear news like this. Hopefully he grills KCPT hard this time regarding the lack of HD for the Men's NCAA Tournament, especially since the Jayhawks are in the Final 4.

This brings up another idea in the quest for CBS-HD. Chris mentioned earlier that the owner of a local bar wanted to put out a donation jar to help KCTV pay for the HD equipment. I suggest we put out this donation jar to help pay for WIBW to boost their signal strong enough to easily pick it up here (if feasibly possible).

Originally posted by Psyclguy
Got this heads up from Aaron Barnhart.

He has another article running in the Star tomorrow regarding KCTV's lack of HD. Has to do with a fellow in Shawnee who's installed an antenna to receive WIBW the CBS affiliate in Topeka that broadcasts in 1080i.

I wonder who this guy in Shawnee is? It's not me (not that I haven't tried!).

Brad

Here is the latest jab at KCTV!

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/entertainment/columnists/aaron_barnhart/5559682.htm

FWIW, the HD broadcast from WIBW today was great!

Rock Chalk Jayhawk KU!

Another excellent article.

Live, from Topeka, it's HDTV (http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascitystar/living/5559682.htm)

The only portion of the article I don't like is the area where he defends KCTV:

KCTV did start airing a separate digital signal last year. But the station won't add hi-def capability until a lot more people buy HDTV sets, which could take years. Fewer than 4 percent of homes nationwide have TV sets equipped with the new digital tuners that can translate hi-def signals.

He also did this in the first article which someone pointed out. This is the only flaw that I see in both of these articles which gives some sympathy to KCTV. He could have added that many people are not buying HDTV sets because there is little support for stations to broadcast HD in the KC area.

Other than that, it was another great article against KCTV. I hope Aaron keeps this going on a regular basis. Anyone else have a good story for Aaron that could be used against KCTV?

Also, I want to pass along some information on the KCTV5 website. There is a thread started there about KCTV not broadcasting the Final 4 tournament in HD - specifically regarding KU. Check it out here (http://www.kctv5.com/Global/link.asp?L=82853) and feel free to voice your opinion.

The most irritating thing about the KCTV situation is that when you visit their website and read their FAQ about Digital Television, it becomes readily apparent that they are almost contemptuous towards HDTV. I've tried to convey this to CBS in several e-mail messages.

KCTV DTV FAQ (http://www.kctv.com/Global/category.asp?C=15956)

Every chance they get, it's "DTV is hard to get, DTV is more expensive, DTV is complicated."

While there's certainly an argument that can be made for the added expense of DTV at this point, KCTV is pretty much single-handedly responsible for the "complicated" part in Kansas City. The "hard to get" part is completely unfounded, as even their DTV signal is strong. They just don't know what to do with it, apparently.

I recognize that they may be bound by policies imposed by Meredith (Worldnow?), but sheesh! The local UPN affiliate (KCWE-DT, 31) is HD ready (and broadcasting 720P!) and they don't even have HD content coming down from the network yet! UPN!

$600??? for an OTA antenna???

Man, that's just nuts...but HDTV at any price right? The antenna guy - Norm Clark - referred to in the article is really good. He came and "tuned" my attic antenna as well. Very knowledgeable and very thorough. Maybe I'll call him again if I decide to do this - I wonder what sort of setup he ended up with...

Kendal

Originally posted by ksmith4
$600??? for an OTA antenna???

Man, that's just nuts...but HDTV at any price right? The antenna guy - Norm Clark - referred to in the article is really good. He came and "tuned" my attic antenna as well. Very knowledgeable and very thorough. Maybe I'll call him again if I decide to do this - I wonder what sort of setup he ended up with...

Kendal

That is pretty steep! I got three good antennas, coax, joiners, etc., for $200 (self-install).

I guess if they're including the nine hours of install time in this figure though, it's probably about right. I'd have to guess he'd bill out around $40/hour.

If I remember correctly, he was at my house for @ two hours - the rate was $60 p/hr. My total bill was $150 - but it was worth it - good guy, would definitely recommend his services. He sells Channel Master stuff - though I didn't need a new antenna - he had them regardless.

Anyone know what the config/setup was for this guy in Shawnee to get WIBW?? Do you have to be set up to receive both the analog (13) just to receive the digital (43 - I believe that's the UHF freq for 13.1)??

I can't stand KCTV - no Final Four, no Masters, no CSI, no CBS anything !!!!!
(sorry...)

Kendal

Aaron Barnhart is at the NAB and is reporting in a journal on http://www.tvbarn.com. Check out his reports on HDTV and DTV sightings.

The last couple of days the signal strength I'm getting from KCTV-DT has dropped considerably. It used to be in the high 80's, low 90's, now it's in the mid 70's. Now, when I'm watching, the picture will frequently pixelize. Don't have any trees or other obstacles in my area blocking the signal.
I was thinking maybe KCTV has powered down their signal trying to save money since they're so financially strapped.

Anyone else notice this?

I noticed some pixelization during the pregame to the NCAA final game Monday night. I checked the signal strength - it was @ 72 on my HD5 Mitsu receiver. I chalked it up to the rain and generally cloudy weather - everything else that night and since has been just fine.

Kendal

I have called KCTV about this very same low power problem. I have a clear line of site to the KCTV tower. When KCTV-DT first went on the air I had 95% signal strength now I have 55%. I was told from KCTV that the antenna AC power was being worked on, but to no avail on return to 95% signal strength. If you read Aaron Barnhart HDTV article in the KC Star, KCTV is listed at low power output. Please call KCTV engineering and let them know your low signal strength. Boy I am glad somebody else noticed this low power output from KCTV-DT.:(

KCTV is at the low end of the local broadcasting spectrum in Kansas City. It's obvious they don't have any consideration for the viewer of their programing, just the almighty dollar.

Has anyone seen any hint of KSHB's new tower going up yet? I haven't been in that part of town for awhile.

Brad

Hey guys,

I just moved to Kansas City and was looking into finally getting an HDTV box for my tv. My question is whether or not I should get an OTA STB like a Samsung TI-165 or if I should go with Time Warner in this area??

Right now I'm in an apartment on the plaza so I don't know what kind of signal strength I'd get, but I'm soon moving out to a house.

Any help on which way would be the best would be appreciated!

ps- What is the best type of antenna?

Trevor

Welcome to KC, Trevor!

Personally, I'd go with Time Warner (rent a box) until you move, at least. Then, depending on where you are in the metro area (we have guys on this thread all over town), we can help you figure out what you'll need for OTA, if you decide to go that way. It kind of depends on whether you want to go satellite or cable, basically. If you go with satellite, you'll want to go OTA on locals if at all possible.

Brad

I called KSHB on NBC HDTV. Was told around June 2003.:)

Originally posted by jeffdbs
I called KSHB on NBC HDTV. Was told around June 2003.:)
Did they say it would be 1080i? Hopefully they won't pull a KCTV on us.

I asked about HDTV and was told yes. Probably a good idea for someone to talk to an engineer for the three stations on the tower. (41,38 & 50).

Yet another HD article in the KC-Star by Aaron Barnheart.

The best for less at TV industry show (http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascitystar/living/5605400.htm)

This article is focused more on HD radio but has a few paragraphs regarding HDTV.

Speaking of falling prices, many TV stations have been waiting for the cost of equipment to come down before they'll carry high-definition broadcasts. Meredith Corp., which owns KCTV, has held off buying hi-def equipment for its stations on the grounds that it costs too much money to serve the few viewers who own HDTV sets.

That excuse may be a thing of the past, as a team from public broadcaster KCPT discovered. While roaming the NAB convention floor Monday, they found dealers slashing the prices on their equipment.

KCPT already has completed the first stage of its digital transition; it can carry hi-def shows from PBS on its digital channel 18. The next stage includes buying two pieces of equipment, a router and a switcher, which are crucial to letting the station air its own hi-def programs.

Bill Reed, KCPT president, had earlier been told those two items would run him a cool $1 million. So imagine his surprise when he found a router-switcher combo being displayed at NAB for one-fourth that cost.

"I was amazed," Reed said.

Meredith engineers were spotted roaming the floors of NAB. Maybe they were amazed, too.

Needless to say, Aaron seems to be as frustrated as everyone else on this thread regarding KCTV. This is the third article he's articulated to the public that KCTV is too cheap to provide it's viewers HD programming. Now that the equipment has become more affordable, KCTV has even less of an excuse. It may be time to send Kirk Black and company another letter. Does anyone have hard copies of the three recent HDTV articles from the Star? It might be a good idea to include cut-outs of these articles in the letter.

I am debating whether it is worth it to get an HD box? I have direct tv and would like to get hd stations nbc, cbs, abc and fox. I believe I can get hbo and espn through direct tv. Is it worth plunking down the $600 for a HD box and then more for an antenna?

Bottomline is should I buy now or wait? Next question is what antenna would you recommend if I do purchase.

Originally posted by jlenz
I am debating whether it is worth it to get an HD box? I have direct tv and would like to get hd stations nbc, cbs, abc and fox. I believe I can get hbo and espn through direct tv. Is it worth plunking down the $600 for a HD box and then more for an antenna?
You cannot get ESPN-HD via DirecTV (or Dish) yet.

You can get HD-HBO, Showtime HD and HD.NET. But depending on which HD DirecTV box you get, you'll get an over-the-air tuner for free.


Bottomline is should I buy now or wait? Next question is what antenna would you recommend if I do purchase.
The boxes will get cheaper of course. Things always do in the world of consumer electronics. The question is: do you want to wait? As you can see from the first posts in this thread, Kansas City is getting there with HD. KMBC (ABC) and KCPT (PBS) are on board. KSHB (NBC) will be here soon. KCTV (CBS) will eventually, whether they like it or not.

If you don't want to make an investment and live in an area served by Time-Warner, get cable. Their selection of HD channels is actually very decent, and they are not charging anything extra for the HD cable box. Their line-up is:

HD-HBO (east and west)
Showtime HD (east and west)
PBS (the national HD loop)
KMBC (ABC)
WDAF (Faux 480P)

All things being equal, upgrading your DirecTV system to HD and adding an antenna might make the most sense. It's not as if the format is going to change.

I spoke to an engineer at KSHB to get an idea about their progress and plans. Their tower has not been topped off yet, they are waiting for the last set of guy wires to arrive. Interestingly, it's not going to be a candelabra tower. The top is going to be KMCI, analog channel 38, replacing their current tower in Lawrence, KS. It gets the top of the tower to get the maximum reach and be able to serve the Lawrence market. After that, they will get KSHB, analog 41 running, mounted on one side of the tower, replacing their current antenna on the WDAF tower. Then finally, they'll be getting KSHB-DT, digital 42 running, mounted 120 degrees from KSHB, followed by KMCI-DT.

They are doing a first class job all the way, not cheaping out on any of it. For instance, all 4 antennas will have separate feedlines, no combiners. They will be passing NBC's 1080i programming, and upconverting all other programming with a Teranex. KMCI-DT will have a Teranex as well. They chose the Teranex not only for it's excellent scaling, but for it's top notch noise processing. KMCI shows a lot of old TV shows like "The Andy Griffith Show", and the Teranex should make them look as good as possible - and saving most of us $250,000. :-)

They are also going to be full power - no cheaping out like KCTV-DT or WDAF-DT.

Chris - that's great news, thanks for the update. For those of us who've been living without two of the "big three" in KC for (what seems like) forever - this is excellent. Can't wait here in OP...

Kendal

Chris - Thanks again for doing the legwork. All good info and good news! Did he give you any dates?

Brad

Originally posted by Bradtothebone
Did he give you any dates?
No, he didn't want to commit to a date...can't say I blame him. I also can understand their timetable; a stronger channel 38 is money in their pocket. But I don't believe they'll want to delay too much between getting the different antennas up and working. Tower crews are very much in demand, and it's not easy to schedule them. Personally, I believe we'll see KSHB-DT in glorious 1080i sometime this summer.

I do have to wonder when and if KSHB is going to move off of the WDAF tower, permitting WDAF-DT to put up a proper antenna and go full power.

Here's a question: Would KSHB's channel 41 antenna work AT ALL for WDAF-DT channel 34? Obviously, it wouldn't be very efficient, but it would be orders of magnitude better than what they have now, wouldn't it? Couldn't this be a stop-gap until they can upgrade?

Brad

Originally posted by Bradtothebone
Here's a question: Would KSHB's channel 41 antenna work AT ALL for WDAF-DT channel 34? Obviously, it wouldn't be very efficient, but it would be orders of magnitude better than what they have now, wouldn't it? Couldn't this be a stop-gap until they can upgrade?

Brad
I wouldn't know. KSHB apparently has a long-term lease on the tower, and doesn't actually have to move off even though they have a new tower. They could retain the antenna and transmitter at WDAF as a backup. That would be ideal from their point of view...a backup analog tower nearly as tall as their new one. From our point of view of course, this would be awful, as WDAF claims that they cannot put up a full power antenna for WDAF-DT until KSHB moves off.

I'm sure KSHB would move off of the WDAF tower if offered enough money by WDAF (yeah right.)

I just noticed on titantv.com today that they recently updated the live date for KSHB-DT. I know this isn't the official date they will go live but the stations do coordinate these dates with the FCC (titantv) and this does credit some of the rumors that were going around earlier of a possible June live date.

titantv.com - Digital Stations Coming Soon
Network CH Station Live Date
IND 36 KMCI-DT Jun 15 2003
NBC 42 KSHB-DT Jun 15 2003

Everyone in KC alright??

My god, that was one hellacious storm.

Thanks for your concern, Timmy. Everything's fine in Shawnee. All the weather went north and south of us.

The only storm-related "problems" we've had were concerning KMBC not showing Alias in HD (I guess because they wanted the weather report bug to be on in the corner and can't insert it into the HD picture yet). Similarly, The Practice was shown in SD on Monday, so they could show a crawl along the bottom of the screen for their Salvation Army Storm Relief Drive.

I guess I'm willing to give up Hi-def for a couple of nights if that's all the "problems" I have!

Brad

I drove by the KSHB/KCMI tower Tuesday night 5/6. It appeared to be complete, with all four antennae installed, and, at least from my vantage point, it looked like the cabling was complete also. Looks like the first part of June might still be a good date!

Brad

Oh Man, you beat me to it!! I was on the roof of our office building yesterday and I saw that it was complete.

FYI, the new big candelabra tower just to the north of KSHB/KMCI is where channel 50 is now broadcasting from. Their digital is almost on the air, they are waiting for their transmitter, according to FCC applications.

KUDL-FM also just moved over to that tower. It is a leased tower project built by Richland Towers. It has room for 20 TV-FM antennas!!

Anyone want to lease some tower space? :D

Brad - since you and Chris have this one locked and loaded (it appears), now can you go fix KCTV for us???

if we try for Topeka, do we need to get channel 2 (VHF) first, before we can shoot for 43 (2-1 digital), or can we just try to pull in 43 by itself. Obviously, if i don't need to buy a combination V/U antenna, I don't want to, plus i've got to try to pull in more than one station. 2 probably wouldn't be a problem, i think i can see it today - but it's very snowy.

Any thoughts (other than we all hate Merideth!!) ??

Kendal

Kendal - Slow down, man, you've got me confused. I THINK you're talking about WIBW (CBS), which is channel 13 analog and channel 44 digital. The only channel 2 (analog) in the area is KQTV (ABC) out of St. Joseph. Their digital channel is 53, and it's operating on an STA at a whopping 1.4 kW right now, so there's no chance you'll get it!

I've been able to get 13 (very snowy, with a UHF antenna), but have never gotten a sniff of 44. I've only tried during the day, and I've been working by myself (running up and down from the attic to the basement aiming and re-aiming) so I probably haven't given it my best shot. I'm going to try again after 38 moves from Lawrence to KC. I'm afraid, though, that WIBW-DT just doesn't have enough juice to make it into my attic.

I definitely wouldn't buy a combination VHF/UHF antenna, as you can get a pretty good indication of VHF signal strength from a UHF-only. I'm living proof, though, that getting the analog signal doesn't mean you'll get the digital (at least until they power-up). Good Luck!

Brad

KC Star ran a small article on Kansas City HDTV. http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/entertainment/columnists/aaron_barnhart/5817827.htm

Brad - you're right, sorry for my mixup. WIBW is 13, not 2. Probably doesn't reflect well that I'm getting St Joe and Topeka confused....

Thanks for the info. Definitely UHF all the way - I haven't tried at all yet, I need a weekend when nothing else is planned so I can do the same as you - aim and climb down and run to the stb/tv to see the results.

Kendal

Anybody able to get a 1080i signal from KSHB-DT 42? I would think any day now we should see a test pattern on DT-42.

I believe Chris Williams had talked to KSHB, and their plan was to get the two analog channels up and running before the digital, so it may be a while. I'll know the (analog) change has happened when I see a ghost-free image on channel 38!

Brad

Does anyone get KC locals through Directv?? My wife called me and complained about the KCTV channel 5 saying it was pretty bad. Anyone else???

Timmy - all I know is that for a few months while D* was providing the locals at no charge (Jan - March), the reception (to me) looked terrible. I watched the OTA signal all the time, even though I had the option of seeing it on the sat.

It validated my decision not to buy the locals (even for $2) from D* - it looked very bad.

Kendal

The problem cleared up, but KSMO(62) looks pretty bad on there.

tim

Originally posted by timmy1376
Does anyone get KC locals through Directv?? My wife called me and complained about the KCTV channel 5 saying it was pretty bad. Anyone else???

I'm getting KC locals through DirecTV. Here is my assesment of the quality of each feed:

FOX: WDAF (4) - No Ghosts, No Snow, Pretty Good
CBS: KCTV (5) - Looks Overcompressed.
ABC: KMBC (9) - Slightly Snowy, No Ghosts.
PBS: KCPT (19) - Looks Overcompressed.
UPN: KCWE (29) - Terrible Ghosting.
IND: KMCI (38) - No Ghosts, No Snow, Slightly Overcompressed
NBC: WDAF (41) - No Ghosts, No Snow, Pretty Good
PAX: KPXE (50) - Unwatchable. Scrambled almost.
WB: KSMO (62) - No Snow, Some Ghosting

Overall, I am unimpressed. I've only kept them because there is not yet an HD/OTA/DirecTivo.

bocktar:
the only reason I have them is because of my directv tivo. Since it cannot record cable channels, I wanted them to timeshift. My wife watches Gilmore Girls, charmed, and Smallville on the WB, which goes from passable, to bad, and back again. PAX is awful, they might as well take it down. UPN is about as bad with the ghosts. I can see ghosts on CBS occasionally, but overall not too bad. I think 41 and 4 are the best.

Sure as hell beats cable here.

If the local program is not in OTA HDTV then I will watch a local channel in analog OTA. My television then takes the OTA signal and line doubles the picture to 480p. Old fashion OTA can sometimes produce a decent picture compared to my local channels provided by Dish Network. OTA HDTV 1080i or 720p is one of the best picture I have seen on television.

New Station Reception

I just started receiving a new digital station this evening. It is KMOS, a PBS affiliate broadcasting from CMSU in Warrensburg. On my Samsung TS-160 receiver the station numbers are 6-1 and 6-2. The 6-2, KMOS-HD channel is HD and the PQ is excellent. Is anyone else receiving this station? I am in Lee's Summit so I am closer to the transmitter.

On another note, I cannot receive the channel 19 digital stations today. I used to be able to receive 19-1, 19-2, and 19-3. My receiver shows "Searching for signal". Anyone else having this problem?

Psyclguy- Yes digital 18 is down. Do you have an antenna rotor? Its almost 10pm and right now I am not getting a signal on 6-1. My OTA antenna is pointed west. KCTV digital 24 signal is stronger now but moves up and down between 75% and 89%. Thank God for KMBC digital 07, 96% and true HDTV.

No rotor. I have the antenna in the attic pointed approximately 340 degrees NW. I am still receiving 6-1 with very excellent HD reception that rivals HD-Net.
I have noticed the last couple of days that KCTV digital signal strength is at 100%. What's strange about this is although the signal is stronger (used to be 77%) it pixelizes frequently. Wonder what they're doing?

OK, just went to the FCC website. KMOS is digital channel 15. Their tower is just east of Sedalia. They don't have a Special Temporary Authority so I assume they are operating at their licensed power of 322 kW.

From my house this would be about 100 miles away and I would have to point my antenna to the east. Please keep us posted if you receive consistant reception or if this is just an atmospheric occurence.

I am seeing the same problems with KCTV. My strength is at 100% but the picture breaks up frequently. I was at 77% with a steady picture a few days ago. It's just our luck that they will go HD but it will be unwatchable with too many breakups. :D

I sent an email to KMOS inquiring about their broadcasting and here is a portion of the reply I received from Michael O'Keefe, Program Manager:

"Thank you for your note regarding our digital broadcast. We have just recently boosted our transmitter output to 100 percent capacity, and that explains why you just now start receiving. We only began using the transmitter on May 1.
We are simultaneously broadcasting an up-converted version of our analog signal, and a continuous stream of High Definition programming sent by PBS. We have limited our digital broadcast hours to 9 hours a day - beginning at 3p.m. and signing off at midnight."

The signal I receive is as good as HD-Net through DirecTV, which is excellent. I'm surprised I receive it since my antenna is pointed in the opposite direction.

:D I got KMOS! I installed a Radio Shack small UHF outdoor antenna pointed toward KMOS. Even though this antenna is pointed toward Warrensburg I still receive all my Kansas City channels at almost the same signal strength. But if I point the UHF outdoor antenna toward Kansas City I loose the KMOS signal:( . So I repointed the UHF antenna back toward Warrensburg. I installed an A/B switch so now I have access to both my attic antenna and my new little chimney mounted UHF KSMO antenna. Maybe Chris Williams can explain why our antennas do these strange things.

Also I e-mailed KSHB about their story on cable vs satellite.

Dear Channel KSHB Channel 41,

I watched your consumer news on cable vs. satellite but you forgot to mention satellite receivers allow a consumer to hookup an Over the Air antenna and receive free local channels. Also the new satellite HDTV receivers allow me to see my local Kansas City channels in true HDTV Over the Air programming( KMBC DT-07, KCPT DT-18) free! By the way I noticed a new television tower on the Kansas City skyline is KSHB going true HDTV? Dear Jeffrey:
You're right...we should have mentioned that. Yes...our new tower is going on line this summer. Channel 38 gets the first boost during the first week of June...and our digital signal (true HDTV) for 38 & 41 will be up and running in July. Stay tuned...I'm sure we will do stories on it.
Debbie Bush
News Director

Thanks for the update, Jeff! Sounds like they're a little behind schedule, but not too bad compared to that certain CBS affiliate that shall remain nameless. Upconverted old sitcoms on channel 38 don't sound terribly appealing, but at least they'll be ready if something DOES come along in HDTV.

Brad

It would be nice if 38 or 29 could get their hands on that Paramount HDOne movie package that other cities have. There are a lot of good movies in that package.

Is 38 going to let the general public know about the switch from Lawrence to KC? I usually don't watch the news on 38, so I may have missed something. Right now there is nothing for the general OTA viewer to let them know that they may have to adjust their antennas very soon.

Can someone explain why my big a$$ outdoor antenna cannot get KMBC channel 9 anymore but when i hook up my bowtie one, works fine (except when i walk in front of it)

When i installed the outdoor antenna originally , i had it moved to the best signal on all channels and worked great..

Now, it works just fine on all the other channels except the only true HDTV station channel 9...; What gives??
:confused:

you may be "overdriving" your receiver with too much signal with the big one. Or, I had a similar problem with pixelization on KMBC, which was a bad OTA digital tuner in the stb.

they're hard to isolate - hope that helps.

Kendal

I have a link for a listing of analog and digital Kansas City stations and their power output. http://www.tvradioworld.com/region1/mo/tv_information.asp?m=kan

Once again KMBC-DT 07 had a great broadcast in HDTV-The Stanley Cup Hockey Game. Had a neighbor up the street who is a hockey junkie( DirecTV center ice package) come down and watch the game in HDTV. Not only did the quality of the HDTV picture grab my neighbor attention the sound of the arena made my neighbor look around the room. :D

I am looking to buy a samsung ts160 directv hd receiver. My tv will be in the basement and unfortunately our homeowners association wont allow any antennas on the roofs. Here are my questions.

1. what antenna should i use? I hear the best our channel master, winegard and silver sensor?

2. Will i get decent reception in OP? I know I will be limited by the number of stations but it seems more are being added.

Thanks for your help.

jlenz- How about an attic antenna? With a good attic VHF/UHF antenna you should be able to receive almost all KC local Over the Air digital channels. :)

Originally posted by jlenz
I am looking to buy a samsung ts160 directv hd receiver. My tv will be in the basement and unfortunately our homeowners association wont allow any antennas on the roofs.

Check out this link at the FCC web site. Federal law prohibits home owner associations from denying you access to OTA signals up to and including the installation of an outside OTA antenna and/or sat dish.

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

This may be of help to you.

PS. I LOVE my Sammy 160 for sat and OTA.

I picked up my new Motorola DCT5100 box from the Olathe office over the noon hour. They just began offering them yesterday, and the woman behind the counter told me they're flying off of the shelves...they'll have to have more shipped from the warehouse. I had been on the waiting list, but the lady told me that they haven't had time to start going through list to call everyone. Looks like if you want one, you'd better hurry over there in person. It costs $5/month and so far they're offering Showtime, HBO, KCPT-DT, KMBC-DT and KCTV-DT. I don't know if that last one means Channel 5 is finally passing on the HD signal or not. I'll be setting up the box this evening and I'll be glad to post when it's up and running.

Does the STB allow you to connect a OTA? (antenna). I'm here in Blue Springs trying to decide whether to pay the ~$20/month upcharge to get to digital cable first then add the HDTV STB or buying the Mitsubishi Promise Module at a cost of $995, which allows OTA and 135 ATSC/Digital Cable tuner. Suppose to receive all ATSC broadcast formats or non-scrambled digital cable (QAM in the clear).

--Gary

Gary, I'm not sure if you can connect an OTA or not. You might want to check the specs on the 5100 at the Motorola site at http://broadband.motorola.com/hdtv/dct5100.html

Bob

On the new Motorola box, does the DVI out port work?? Has anyone tried it yet? I'd be interested in looking into this box if the DVI was available.

I think the DVI out is going to be activated later with a software upgrade.
I am not positive but in the menu settings I was only able to configure the component outs. Logic would say if it was activated I could do the same for the DVI. I guess....

Any one had luck moving an attic antenna outside to get better HD reception? I have a Winegard in the attic and the picture is marginal. Last night's basketball game on Channel 9 was good most of the time, but it broke up too much to be viewable for very long. For aesthetic reasons I hate to move it outside, but I need a solution. Anyone had luck with the Terk TV55 or an antenna that clips on a Directv dish?

I'm located in southern Overland Park so there should be some way I should be able to get a good signal.

I live in Olathe and just have a standard RadioShack VHF/UHF rooftop antenna. I am receiving 5, 9, 19, 29, and 62 all very strong and stable.

The problem with dish mounted antennas in your area is that they would be on the south side of your house. You would be fighting severe multipath issues. Unless, of course, your dish is installed on your chimney or roof.

Just remember, the uglier it looks on your home, the better reception you will get. :D

Is there anyone here with HDTV in the Northland using an OTA? I live up north, by Weatherby Lake, and have been considering an HD TV, but didn't really want to take the plunge if HD OTA reception is crappy up here. From what I've seen, many of the antennas are south of downtown KC, and we have a lot more hills up here for the signal to travel. I have DirecTV and have no plans to ever go back to Time Warner, so OTA is my only option for local HD content.

If you are in the Northland using an OTA it would be helpful to know the general area you are located at, what antenna setup you're using, and any problems you have or have had with reception.

SWFan,

I live up north, near Weatherby Lake also, and receive all KC OTA station well except for WDAF (4) which isn't always watchable. I have a Channelmaster 4228 in my attic.

I appreciate the information, that's very helpful. Did you install the antenna yourself, or hire it out? And did you need a rotator?

It will probably be closer to the end of the year before I make the plunge anyway. I'm interested in the DLP and LCoS sets and right now there is a shortage of DLP's and many of the LCoS sets won't be released for months to come. :(

SWFan,

I hired out my antenna installation to Antenna Masters. They did a great job. I don't have the number with me, but they are in the phone book. I do have a rotator that helps in 'finding' WDAF.

Thank you for the information. I read about Antenna Masters in the KC Star article talking about the OP guy who hired them to pick up the Topeka CBS affiliate. I'm glad to hear he serves folks in the Northland; the article made him out to be a pretty good installer.

Though, I'm not embarrased by an outside antenna, so when I pull the trigger I may opt for an outside-mount on the chimney, thus hopefully getting better reception.

Has anyone else noticed the monitor on the weather set at KCTV? Looks pretty wide to me, and no, that's not just when I have the picture stretched on my HDTV :p

SWFan,
I live just west of the airport and am able to pick up all of the KC digital channels (excl Fox) with an old antenna missing several elements. You may have some diffculty because you're in a slightly hilly area with many trees, but hopefully won't have any problems. Good luck.

Anyone got an update on KSHB (NBC) HDTV update??..
Wasnt it supposed to be in mid-june, are they still on schedule?
Thanks

This is just my assumption, but I would say that they are behind schedule.

Analog 38 was supposed to move from Lawrence to KC last week and that hasn't happened yet. This is their first step.

1) Analog 38 Moves to new tower
2) Analog 41 Moves to new tower
3) Digital 42 comes on-line
4) Digital 36 comes on-line

I keep checking analog 38 every night. I would assume as soon as they start this process, it will go quickly.

Me too - I'm checking 38 almost every night - anything on a testing schedule...I've heard/seen nothing, so I'm just doing the manual test thing...

Kendal

Wow, this thread grew a lot since I last visit.

Anyway, I'm wondering if anyone have a solution to my problem.

I'm living in Olathe (Zipcode 66062). I'm having hard time to receive all the OTA Digital channel. I'm using an HTPC with a HiDTV Pro Card (http://www.pc-dtv.com/). I'm only able to receive Digital 19, UPN and CBS. I'm currently using a Zenith antenna (http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=90113670&loc=111) since I live in an apartment.

I'm projecting at 84" screen. Let's face it, no one want to watch Jerry Springer in 84" screen, there is no good movie/show in CBS, not much going on in KCPT as well. I would like to receive NBC, WB (to watch Smallwile, Charm, Everwood etc) and FOX. Does anyone know any solution to apartment setting problem? I'm ready to invest in a better attena, but which one to get? A multidirection one would be great. Thanks!

From,
Moses

PS: I'm only interested in OTA signal instead of Comcast since I don't want to spend too much money on cable. Besides, subscribing to Digital cable will encourage me to become a couch potato!:D

Oh, Everest won't be in Olathe, I don't want to subscribe to Dish.... I'm stingy!!!!:D

Moses - i'm not far from you (119th & Switzer), and i get everything pretty strong with an attic antenna. Radio Shack and not very large. There is no NBC yet here, CBS is only 480i (Meredith stinks) and I don't believe that WB is HD yet. WDAF - Fox, is very weak - if you can get that one, you're doing better than most (I'm ok, but per others in this and other threads, i'm one of the few, primarily cause I'm at the top of a hill in my sub) - Fox is running at very low power and is very hard to pull in.

but, ABC (KMBC) has a very strong signal (9-1), as does KCPT (as you've experienced). Get a decent size RS or Channel Master (available at Lowe's) antenna and put it on your deck or as high in the apt (attic, crawl space, etc.) as you can and see what kind of a difference that makes.

NBC is coming soon, and you can try for Topeka (WIBW?) for CBS if you want to.....good luck. Let us know if we can help further.

Kendal

Thanks Kendal, I'm in 119th before Blackbob. I will stop by Radio Shack today and ask them to recomment an antenna. Do you know the model of the antenna? Or there is only one Radio Shack antenna? Thanks!

Don't know, there are many RS antennas - and if they're confused, head over to Lowe's and get a 30-45 mile Channel Master. Either one should work great.

Good luck.

Kendal

Thanks. I found it, it's Radio Shack VU-75 XR. That's the only one that I can use. It's 50' and my apartment has regulation that no communication device (satelite dish, antenna) can be more than 1 meter. I still need to check with my apartment manager to make sure it's okay to install it. They have another policy that whatever install on the patio should not make the apartment area look bad, too distinguish etc.... no dwelling etc....

Let us know how it works - the guy from Antenna Masters came and "tuned" my antenna. Essentially, it was pointing it for max reception for the KC locals. I believe it's somewhere between the 24 degrees for WDAF and 42 degrees for KSHB - so pointed NNE. Digital works fine on the same orientation, so you should be ok with that same/similar orientation.

Kendal

I've had the Comcast HD box, the Motorola DCT5100, for a couple of weeks now, and I'm wondering if anyone else has been having the same problem I have? I have a Samsung 47 inch HDTV rear projection monitor, and I have the Motorola box set for 16:9, yet on programs that are sent in High Defenition, such as ABC's baskeball and hockey games, I get black bars on the top and bottom of the screen. I understand some network programs come with the bars, even on high def, but not live sporting events in true HD. I called the Oathe Comcast people who came out and switched boxes, but I still have the same problem. The tech didn't know what else to do. I can watch DVD's in the widescreen format with no bars, but for some reason, the live HD shows have the bars...for that matter, all HBO-HD programs have them too. Anyone else who just got one of the new boxes from Comcast having the same problem? Any suggestions? Thanks.
Bob

Aaron Barnhart runs another article on Kansas City HDTV http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/6063612.htm :D

Originally posted by ksmith4
Let us know how it works - the guy from Antenna Masters came and "tuned" my antenna. Essentially, it was pointing it for max reception for the KC locals. I believe it's somewhere between the 24 degrees for WDAF and 42 degrees for KSHB - so pointed NNE. Digital works fine on the same orientation, so you should be ok with that same/similar orientation.


Well, I bought the antenna, but it will be a while before I can put it up. I have the vu-75xr and it's huge to put at my patio. I have to find a way to hang it up instead of let it extend out beyound the patio, which my apartment manager disapprove. I'm still keeping my Zenith indoor antenna and I can receive ABC and UPN fine. I will get into that when I have the time.

Hi all! I am new to this thread (but not AVS Forum) and am moving to the KC area this fall. So what network affiliates in KC are -actually- running "HD"??

KMBC Channel 9(7) ABC

KCPT Channel 19(18) PBS

KSHB Channel 41(42) NBC *very soon*

Welcome to KC!!

Any news from KSHB lately? The rumored june 15th date came and went.

Also, from past posts, I believe the new fiscal year for Meredith/KCTV5(CBS) started at the beginning of June (may be July??). Has anyone heard from KCTV5 regarding the new fiscal year budget plans and if they will ever consider purchasing the HDTV equipment?

I emailed KSHB yesterday on this subject - no response back yet. I'll let you know if something comes in.

Meredith?? - ha, you must be kidding - the only hope is that WIBW powers up and we all put up nice big OTA antennas

Kendal

Originally posted by SWFan
Is there anyone here with HDTV in the Northland using an OTA? I live up north, by Weatherby Lake, and have been considering an HD TV, but didn't really want to take the plunge if HD OTA reception is crappy up here. From what I've seen, many of the antennas are south of downtown KC, and we have a lot more hills up here for the signal to travel. I have DirecTV and have no plans to ever go back to Time Warner, so OTA is my only option for local HD content.

If you are in the Northland using an OTA it would be helpful to know the general area you are located at, what antenna setup you're using, and any problems you have or have had with reception.


I live in Parkville in a slight valley and get the stations that are broadcasting just fine with a Channel Master in my attic. If you can go with an antenna on the roof, you'll be solidly in the 90s on signal strength for virtually everything but Fox.

Wow! I can't believe the that CBS affiliate in KC is not HD yet ... considering that, of all the networks, CBS passes the most HD content. Even Des Moines (where I live now) went HD on CBS a year ago, and we are one third the size of KC. You should start an advertising boycott of the station until they relent. So, WB is not HD down there either correct? I know the the UPN and FOX networks dont have any HD anyway right now ... Does the FOX network down there have 480p 16:9 (FAUX WIDESCREEN) at least? Also, does Topeka have an HD CBS affiliate on the air yet as an alternative?

Ok, here's a brief summary for ya:

Channel 4(34) FOX - They are broadcasting at very low power, 1kw to be exact. Only a few people are able to tune them in. They ARE passing along the 480 widescreen when available. Increasing their signal strength is far away, I'm afraid.

Channel 5(24) CBS - This station is Owned by Meredith. Meredith isn't doing HD on most of its stations across the country. There have been e-mail campaigns and articles in the Kansas City Star. They are broadcasting at decent power and a 480i 4:3 picture. Topeka DOES have a CBS station with HD. Many of us have tried SOOOO hard to get this station, but they are only broadcasting at 100kw.

Channel 9(7) ABC - These guys are EXCELLENT. They were on with a nice strong signal and HD on May 1st, 2002. I can't say enough about the Hearst-Argyle station group and all of the wonderful engineers.

Channel 19(18) PBS - They have been broadcasting HD with decent strength since 1998. They DO NOT show us the demo loop, just primetime HD programs. They multicast 480i 4:3 during the day.

Channel 29(31) UPN - This is the sister station to channel 9, so of course they were also on the air May 1st, 2002 with a strong signal and 720p. Unfortunately, they have no HD material to show us. They upconvert everything to 720p.

Channel 38(36) INDEPENDENT - They are not on the air yet. They will be on with full power and HD very soon, but they will have no HD material to show us. They will upconvert everything to 1080i with a Terenex. It should look great for an upconvert.

Channel 41(42) NBC - They are not on the air yet. They will be on with full power and HD very soon.

Channel 50(51) PAX - They are not on the air yet. They will be on with full power and a 480i 4:3 signal this year.

Channel 62(47) WB - This station is owned by Sinclair. I don't think we will be seeing HD on this station anytime soon. They are on at full power, but are only broadcasting 480i 4:3. *They had a HD decoder when they went on the air, but Sinclair made them ship it to St. Louis.

Questions and answers from Aaron Barnhart on Over the Air digital and HDTV broadcasts in today's Kansas City Star.http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/living/6116723.htm

Just to let you all know, Channel 38 (analog) is up and running on the new tower as of this morning. With any luck, this will be the first of four dominoes to fall on the way to having KSHB-DT in HDTV before too long!

Brad

Channel 19(18) PBS - They have been broadcasting HD with decent strength since 1998. They DO NOT show us the demo loop, just primetime HD programs. They multicast 480i 4:3 during the day.

This is somewhat discouraging as the demo loop was a great way to show off a high def display. Does anyone know if they play this demo at all (i.e. late at night, etc.). I finally got my HDTV Fusion II card installed and wanted to record some of the loops for good demo material. What's funny is I've seen the all of the loops 100 times but never get tired of watching them.

Also, there doesn't seem to be many HD programs available on PBS. Their site lists only 3 or 4 programs for the entire month. The titantv listing contradicts this. I take it the titantv schedule for PBS is no longer correct?

Macman, I've discovered that TitanTV is correct, but only for the national PBS feed. KCPT often pre-empts the national feed with whatever other programs they want. Sometimes they'll tape the national feed and show that program at a different time. Apparently PBS affiliates don't have to always carry the network feed when it's aired as like the commercial network affiliates do.

olathebob, that's interesting to know - thanks for the info. Does anyone know how often KCPT broadcasts the national feed? There appears to be quite a bit more HD material (besides the loops) on there national schedule compared to the local schedule. I'd be curious to know if anyone has seen the demo loop lately also. Thanks.

I am a bit lucky out here in rural Jackson County Missouri-I can receive a digital HDTV PBS DT-15 station from Warrensburg MO along with KCPT DT-18. KCPT does not show alot of PBS HDTV programming compared to the national HDTV PBS feed from Warrensburg. :( I have called and e-mailed KCPT on their lack of PBS HDTV programming.

Another article in today's Kansas City Star on televisions and HDTV's.http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/business/6147998.htm

KTWU Channel 11 (23) in Topeka was showing the demo loop but I haven't checked it lately. I haven't watched any TV in over a week. I might check it tonight and see if they still are.

I can also receive the PBS station broadcasting from Warrensburg. It is KMOS, Central Missouri State University's PBS station. Their transmitting tower is in Sedalia. They run the PBS HD loop in the evenings and occasionally the PBS HD programs. In my opinion their PQ is much better than KCPT's.

Thank you for the info on the local DTV.

FYI - I saw on the KSHB (analog 41) news last night that they announced the new tower for KMCI (analog 38). They also said that KMCI-DT (36?) and KSHB-DT (42) were coming on line within the next 30 days!! Yeah!!

Kendal

Check out this article in today's Kansas City Star by Aaron Barnhart on KSHB and other HDTV KC stations. http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/living/6134200.htm

Comcast also says it is offering the HDTV content of CBS affiliate KCTV, but that's a laugh -- KCTV is too cheap to buy the equipment to pass along hi-def programs from CBS, so it just passes along a standard-definition picture on that channel.

Ha! The frustration is getting to Aaron too. He's no longer being politically correct towards KCTV.

About time someone with a little more clout than us lowly viewers had something to say - Meredith is a joke!

Great Article! Ha!

With the news yesterday that FOX will start 720p broadcasting, it will be interesting to see what WDAF will be doing. The best case scenario would be that they would put up their DTV antenna as soon as KSHB leaves their tower, then power-up and go to 720p. As a FOX owned-and-operated station, I would guess they might get some pressure from "corporate" to do so.

A somewhat more likely scenario would be that they would go to 720p and stay at low power, in which case Time Warner customers and Kendal will be the only ones to know!

Anyone hear anything "official" from KSHB on the switch to the new tower in analog? Aaron Barnhart seems to think they'll be on in digital within a month.

Brad

Yep, thats exactly what they said on the KSHB news the other night!! 30 days, NBC, HD, can't wait.

Brad - you're right, with Fox (WDAF) hopefully soon to follow at 720p, we'll be in decent shape except for KCTV - Meredith. Maybe they'll feel some pressure and get on board....nah, sorry - I was dreaming....they still stink.

Kendal

Looks like TWC will be adding Discovery HD and the InDemand HD channels fairly soon:

http://www.twckc.com/services/HDTV/

Their info on KSHB needs updated, though.

Has anyone noticed that KCTV DT-24 signal is better now even though it is still a 480i to 480p 4X3 picture? I have very few breakup problems and the signal strength is way up close to 96% for me. I keep hoping that CBS 1080i and dolby digital 5.1 programming is going to show up on my HDTV when I switch to KCTV DT-24. :D

I am surprised there is no advertiser boycott of the CBS station down there in KC considering they refuse to upgrade to 1080i to pass all that great CBS programming on to you. I would be pissed if I was denied CSI or Without a Trace in HD.

From KCTV (CBS) Engineering ...
Thank you for your inquiry. We assure you that we have listened to our
viewers requests for HD in Kansas City. I am pleased to announce that we
have gotten approval to move forward with the design and implementation
of our HD service. We are trying to get the necessary equipment in and
installed so that our viewers will be able to enjoy the HD signal by
this fall. Be assured that we have always been committed to bringing our
viewers the best programming and technology that we can. Thank you again and we hope that you will enjoy the HD service once online.

Daniel Somes
Director of Engineering KCTV 5

OMG - has hell frozen over??, or did Meredith finally succomb to the competitive environment??, or did divine intervention play a part???

Never thought I'd see this - can't wait, miracles never cease.

Kendal

OK, Kendal, before you get all dewey-eyed, does "by this fall" mean "by the beginning of the new season," or does it mean "by December 20?" I, too, would like to believe that KCTV has seen the light, but I'm skeptical by nature.

Eyedox, good work finally getting something promising out of Channel 5, and we're looking forward to having you on the Kansas City Forum full-time!

Brad

Yes! Excellent news from KCTV5 (DT-24). Wow! CBS 1080i 19.2mbs programming and hopefully Dolby Digital 5.1:D Thank you KCTV5.

Brad - thanks for keeping me honest, i just got all excited thinking about actually seeing 1080i on something local !! Yes, let's hope by Fall, they are using a traditional definition: the leaves start to turn (in this part of the country), my birthday (late Sept), the Autumnal Equinox, etc., etc., etc.

Only time will tell - i personally think it's a marketing play to keep all of us from calling the local antenna guy and putting up some big ol' stick to pull in Topeka - WIBW.

Meredith still stinks (but hope springs eternal!)

Kendal

Sunflower BB in Lawrence launched their HD rollout yesterday. I picked up my Motorola 5100 box after work, and the CSR said they are going fast.

Just got it hooked up late last night, and it took a little while to get my TiVo rigged into the system, so I haven't seen much yet.

BUT - DiscoveryHD looks AWESOME! It was like watching a photograph with motion. I still have to figure out why the analog stations look so bad thru the component inputs while they are acceptable over the s-vid through the TiVo...

If you have any questions, send them my way - I'll try my best to answer them (perhaps even correctly :) )

-MCupps

KMBC-DT 07 is now stretching its 4x3 SD material. Has anyone else noticed this?

Yes, I noticed the stetching, and I don't like it. I have a LCD Projector and don't have to worry about burn in.

I also don't like the stretching. 4X3 programming just looks better in a 4X3 setting. It's like taking a 16X9 picture and squeezing the picture into a 4X3 box. I love a 16X9 HDTV picture and I have no problems waiting on the switchover to 16X9 to take place so true 4X3 is ok with me. When color programming was first broadcast, not all programming was color especially the commercials and the viewers had no problems watching most programs in black and white along with some programs in color. KMBC is doing a wonderful job on ABC HDTV in Kansas City. I am sure KMBC does listen to their viewers :)

I very much dislike the stretching. Many STBs and displays will stretch, zoom, or crop to fit a given aspect ratio if the end-user wants it that way. Burn-in is a poor excuse for the atrocity.

They're also doing it on 29.1.

This stretching needs to be stopped before it gets legs.

And Jeff...I agree. If they're going to stretch 4:3 to 16:9, they might as well squeeze 16:9 and 2.35:1 to 4:3...it'll at least shut up the letterbox haters. Who cares if everthing looks a little skinny? :mad: They should also broadcast all audio in 5.1, but make sure to put mono tracks on all of the discrete channels.

TWC is now offering the Pioneer 3510HD stb. You can just take in your SA box and exchange it. It appears they have a limited number of them. It has DVI and USB output, but no coax out.

The nice thing about the unit is the ability to control source (720p) and aspect (16:9, no scale on 4:3, etc.).

G

Wow! Thanks for the heads-up on this! I had heard that they were coming out, but had no idea TWC already had them. Swung by there at lunch and picked up the last one they had!

I love the DVI out, and the scalling is sweet! Much improved box of teh Scientific Atlanta box.

Now, if we can just get the InDemand HD, DiscoveryHD, and NBC up and running, it will be a great summer.....

fonman--are you using the DVI out? I tried it once when I first got the box but it had some message on the screen but no cable picture. So I went back to the standard component outputs. I am already using the DVI input on my TV for a HTPC anyhow but am curious.

As for the other channels I don't know when--the people on the phone don't know either. Channel 1501 (In-demand HD) now is broadcasting something different--says 7/15 primetime HD, and then something on 9/15 as well.

I'm getting the 3510HD next week, and plan to try the DVI output as well. Even if the DVI doesn't work, it will be nice not to have to switch channels or inputs to see the guide when viewing an HD channel.

I wish this box had a firewire port, though. I'm really looking forward to being able to timeshift HD, either with a PVR or by using a firewire port in conjunction with D-VHS. I've asked TWC several times when either or both of these will be available, but have never been able to reach anyone who even knew what I was talking about.

The DVI port on my Sony KP-57WV600 is hooked up to the new box using a dual-link DVI cable, and works great. It does appear to disable the component out, tho.

I don't think you will see a firewire capability on these type of boxes while the cable companies are also content providers. HDCP DVI seems to be allowed to prevent piracy, but I'm not aware of a HDCP firewire setup.

Let me know how you like the box when you get it.

Originally posted by Fonman99
The DVI port on my Sony KP-57WV600 is hooked up to the new box using a dual-link DVI cable, and works great. It does appear to disable the component out, tho.

Are you using a DVI-D or DVI-I cable? Thanks.

BTW, there's a brief user guide on this box here, although since it's the LA division of TWC, there may be some slight differences:
http://www.accesstimewarner.com/support/cable/pioneer3500hd/index.cfm

I don't think you will see a firewire capability on these type of boxes while the cable companies are also content providers. HDCP DVI seems to be allowed to prevent piracy, but I'm not aware of a HDCP firewire setup.

5C copy-protection is used for firewire. It can be used to allow material to be copied a certain number of times, or not at all.

I'm using a DVI-D cable, but I think either would work. I have noticed it takes a little longer for the channel to display using the DVI versus the component.

Actually, now that I look at the manual, it says NOT to use a DVI-I cable. It also does confirm that the component out is disabled if you use the DVI. What is really cool is that I can actually see the HiDef stuff scaled through the S-Video connection!?! Can that be right?

Yep. The 3510HD will send the "signal" out through all the connections, appropriately scaled. You just can't use both "HD" connections simultaneously. I think you can use *both* s-video and composite with *either* component or DVI. Not sure why that is, but it seems to be.

Fonman--well, I have tried using the DVI port hooked to my Samsung DLP 5065W using a DVI-D cable and it doesn't work. I get a message on the TV saying it needs to be hooked to a HDTV compatible TV set (the message is displayed in 3 languages). Others have also reported this problem in the RPT forum.

As a side note the DVI port works fine when hooked to my HTPC, just not to the 3510HD STB.

Is your Samsung HDCP Capable? I had a similar problem with a Samsung DVD player I tested, the HD-931. It scales the output to 1080i and 720P, but would not work DVI with my Sony, all I would get is snow. Turns out there was a problem with Samsung's implementation of HDCP. I returned the DVD player, but have heard that Samsung now has a CD image with a new ROM for the DVD player that fixes the problem. You might want to check with them.

OK, Today's the 15th. Someone take a look and see what that new HD channel looks like!

ok, just did. At least today the content has changed. It is now running a continuous loop of a preview of what is to come 9/15. Two new HD channels (inHD and inHD2 I think). Sports, movies, tennis channel, etc.

Tonight from 7-11pm is supposed to be a preview so it should be pretty cool. However, that will be right during the all star game as well.

I'm looking to get an antenna for OTA reception in Kansas City. I'm located in Overland Park near 115th Terrace and Goddard. Any recommendations on a good antenna and where to buy it. I was thinking of one of the RadioShack attic models. I'm not too keen on climbing up on the roof to mount it and I don't know what the cost would be to pay someone to do so.

Thanks,
Mark

Originally posted by kchdtv
Fonman--well, I have tried using the DVI port hooked to my Samsung DLP 5065W using a DVI-D cable and it doesn't work. I get a message on the TV saying it needs to be hooked to a HDTV compatible TV set (the message is displayed in 3 languages). Others have also reported this problem in the RPT forum.

As a side note the DVI port works fine when hooked to my HTPC, just not to the 3510HD STB.

kchdtv: I just found out that here in the Cincinnati TWC region, the Pioneer 3510HD's DVI port is disabled -- the firmware in the box does not currently enable the DVI to function. The tech I spoke to today called me back to tell me that, but he had no idea when, or if, it might be enabled.

I don't know how the guy with the Sony got the DVI to work -- I'm starting to suspect he actually has it hooked up using component and just misremembered it.

fonman--are you here in Kansas City? If so which location did you pick up your box from? In addition, are you positive you tested it with the DVI only hooked up and nothing else? You are the only one we have heard of who has reported DVI working on the 3510 box from TWC.

mczolton -

I'm at 121st & Switzer. I have a Ratshack antenna in my attic which pulls in the KC analogs & digitals fine. But i'm at the top of a hill in my sub with very few trees in the path. I would suggest ChannelMaster - you can get them at Lowes - probably not very big unless you're trying to pull in the St. Joe stations or something else.

Hope that helps.

Kendal

This works, but it isn't supported by customer service. I recieved the info from a friend who is VP of Engineering.

If you hold the "exit" key and the center button on the "bull's eye," on the box, till the display changes to "diag" and then enter 1-5-0-0, you will receive Discovery HD.

Notice that the exit key and center key are located on the Explorer HD Box, not the remote. I can ONLY verify this with the Explorer HD's.

I had to use the Timewarner Remote (as opposed to my custom remote) to enter the 1500 to achive success.

Craash--so can you ask your friend how you do this if you have the Pioneer 3510HD box?

thx,
kc

I will ask.

Just keep in mind this is a 'per time' tweak. Everytime you want to watch HD DISC you have to do this.

yeah, sure. TIA.

Just picked up the 3510HD yesterday. I tried getting Discovery HD, but was unsuccessful. I was able to get DIAG to display on the STB, but when I entered 1500 using the TW remote, nothing happened.

I have a DVI cable being delivered today, so I'll try that out tonight. The guy at the TW store told me that the DVI port is definitely active.

Which location did you get the box at?

Originally posted by fcsmith
Just picked up the 3510HD yesterday. I tried getting Discovery HD, but was unsuccessful. I was able to get DIAG to display on the STB, but when I entered 1500 using the TW remote, nothing happened.

I have a DVI cable being delivered today, so I'll try that out tonight. The guy at the TW store told me that the DVI port is definitely active.

I got the box at the 119th street store. They didn't have any when I first called, but customer service had one sent there from the warehouse. They acted as if the boxes are very scarce right now, so I don't know if they have any left or not.

My Engineering Contact called to try and find one for me yesterday, but said they were all gone now. He said they should have some more next week. That is why I asked where you got yours.

Originally posted by fcsmith
I got the box at the 119th street store. They didn't have any when I first called, but customer service had one sent there from the warehouse. They acted as if the boxes are very scarce right now, so I don't know if they have any left or not.

FCSMITH: Someone else there in Kansas City did not have any luck getting the DVI port to work on the 3510HD STB, so if you do, please post here. Thanks.

My DVI definitely works! I even disconnected the component and S-Vid cables, and it still works like a champ. Got mine at 119th St also.

As far as Disc-HD and 1500, I heard the orig plan was to have that up and running already, but they are having a problem with the device that sends out the update to the cable boxes to add the channel!

This is what I was told:

The technical reason:

"Our "BIG" or DNCS machine that sends out all the signals to the boxes is not responding. Today we were going to get a network card to fix the DNCS so our headends can "talk" to the boxes.

Once they can talk again, our addressability department can map, or send the signals, to the box to let it know the channel is available.

From a non-technical person- the machine that talks to the box is broken. Don't know when the fix will happen, just keep checking the channel. If I hear anything new, I will let you know!!! "

So, maybe it will be up soon. She also said that the website will let us know first.

Great update by Aaron Barnhart on HDTV in Kansas City in today's STAR!

The Highlights:
1. KSHB-DT 42 to be on the air (in HD) by July 28.
2. Verification that KCTV-DT 24 to go High-Def this fall (sometime).
3. Verification that WDAF-DT 34 will go High-Def, but not until next year sometime (hopefully at higher power, but no word on that).

Go to tvbarn.com for the whole story.

In addition, I got an email from Jerry Agresti at KMBC (engineering) with the following good news:

"Brad, thanks for your feedback on our stretch test. We wanted to see what
our viewers would think of our widescreen experiment. Although the feedback
has been 50/50 for or against, you'll be glad to know that as of tomorrow,
the picture will go back to native aspect ratio.

We are in the process of procuring the equipment that will alow us to pass
5.1 audio from ABC. We're probably 90 days away from getting it installed.

We appreciate your comments and thank you for watching KMBC."

I'd say that's all pretty good news!

Brad

Fonman--thanks for the update. I am guessing that it must be an issue when being displayed on the Samsung DLP TVs (5065W). cmf has also reported the same problem.

fcsmith--let us know how it goes with your STB. What TV will you be hooking it up to?

I also got my box at the 119th street store early last week.

fonman--one more question--what brand DVI cable are you using? I bought a Belkin dual-link cable (Pro Series Digital Interface Cable DVI-IM;DGTL;DUALINK 10-Ft (BELC09K) ).

I just want to make sure it isn't anything to do with the cable.

Aw, jeez...now I'm back to wondering if I should try to find another person here in Cincy with a non-Samsung HDTV with DVI and who gets TWC to see if this box works on his set. Oy! :-)

Originally posted by kchdtv
fonman--one more question--what brand DVI cable are you using? I bought a Belkin dual-link cable (Pro Series Digital Interface Cable DVI-IM;DGTL;DUALINK 10-Ft (BELC09K) ).


I've read elsewhere that the correct cable is DVI-D, single- or dual-link. You might want to grab one of those just to test out your box (you might get a nice surprise).
- Craig

Hm, I wonder--perhaps you are correct. Not sure where in town I will find one--Best Buy carried this one but I bought it online because it was cheaper.

Circuit City sells a $99 DVI-D cable that you could always return once you're done with it. I don't like doing that if I don't have to, but this is an emergency! :-)

Brad - Great news, thanks for the scoop on the Aaron Barnhart article. At least the big three will be HD by the fall - I hope he's right about KCTV and Chiefs football in HD - that would be sweet!!

Kendal

Craig is correct about the type of DVI cable that is needed. I wasn't able to find a cable at a reasonable price locally. Went to Brandsmart, and they had a cable for $100.00. It was an open-box item, so they were willing the give me a "bargain" at $75.00. I ended up ordering from www.PacifacCable.com, and got the cable for $18.00 plus shipping.

Aaron Barnhart from the Kansas City Star is doing alot of great reporting on the roll-out of Kansas City HDTV. Thanks Aaron!:)

so does all of KC have access to TWC HD cable offerings? I'm planning on moving to North KC in the near future (off Barry Road) and I'm wondering if it will be available.

I tried out the DVI port on the 3510HD and it works fine. I have it hooked to a Toshiba 50HDX82. As noted elsewhere, when the DVI port is connected, the component outs do not work.

Microcenter has them (2m DVI-D dual-link) for $29.99 so I will go get one tonight and try it out.

I considered getting one from pacificcable but i figure that if it doesn't work then I can return the cable if I decide I don't want to keep it.

Is it just me out here in the sticks or did KCTV DT-24 drop its OTA power output? My KCTV DT-24 signal strength went from 95% down to 55%.:( All my other digital OTA channels signal strength stayed the same.

cmf--no go with the DVI-D cable on a Samsung 5065W. My assumption at this point is that there is an issue with the Samsung working with the Pioneer unit. Not sure at this point how to resolve it.

It really isn't that important to me at this point since I plan on using ht HTPC via DVi but it was more out of curiosity that I checked into this.

Originally posted by kchdtv
Microcenter has them (2m DVI-D dual-link) for $29.99 so I will go get one tonight and try it out.

So did it work with your Sammy? Inquiring minds (at least mine) want to know. :-)

Originally posted by kchdtv
cmf--no go with the DVI-D cable on a Samsung 5065W. My assumption at this point is that there is an issue with the Samsung working with the Pioneer unit. Not sure at this point how to resolve it.

Hmmm...thanks for trying! I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest that it also might still be the box. If Pioneer is shipping DVI-disabled boxes to some TWC affiliates and DVI-enabled boxes to others, you could have gotten one of the former kind by mistake. If your DVI works on your PC, it should work on the Pioneer if the port is active (at least theoretically) :-)

Thanks again...
- Craig

I should have thought of this before--I have a Viewsonic N1700W LCD TV with DVI-D input. I am going to try it and see if it works.

Will let you know if it works on this STB.

No go on the DVI output to the ViewSonic either. Same message. What is interesting is that if you change changes using the remote you'l see a baner displayed barely on the bottom of the screen--it is like the message we are seeing is just an overlay.

I may call TWC and get them to come out and swap out the box. It may take them a while to locate one.

Well, good information. Sounds like you definitely have a bad box, or one that should have been sent to Cincinnati. *sigh*

Might want to take the "box" discussion to the HDTV Hardware forum.....

jeffdbs, my signal strength on KCTV-DT was 72 this afternoon but is back up to the normal 100 tonight.

Been kind of quiet here since last week.

Anybody have an update on when TWC is going to turn on their Discovery HD? I was under the impression it was going to be any day now.

Also, Craash, did you get your Pioneer 3510HD box? If so have you figured out how to turn on channel 1500?

thx.

I got my Pioneer last night. It's hooked up and running - although I didn't have much time to play (the wife and I have brand new twins). I should hear from Alan today or tomorrow about forcing Discovery HD to tune in on the Pioneer box.

Here's the key to the hidden channels on the 3510. Hold the "Select" and the "<>" keys. Wait 10 seconds and then enter 1500.

TWC called me today and said Discovery HD would be going live in August in KC.

Craash--have you tried that technique yet? I tried it but wasn't clear as to the sequence. Do you hold down all three keys for 10 seconds? or press them one after another and then wait 10 secs? At any rate it didn't work for me. Always came up with the ???? after entering the key sequence.

Congrats on the twins. I have twin but 4 years old so it is a distant memory what you are going through now. They are a lot of fun.

Thanks Andrew. Did they say if it was just going to be offered as another HD channel for free or part of a package?

She didn't say but from what I've heard it will be provided for free.

It will be provided for free. I haven't tried the sequence yet on the Pioneer, but I'll try tonight.

I can't wait for the twins to get to the "fun stage". Currently, we are still in the "sleep?? We don't need no stinking sleep!!" stage.

Hello from a visitor of the St. Louis thread,

Everyone in St. Louis knows that K.C. is one of the coolest cities around, but surfing your thread and can't believe what I'm reading about your local CBS KCTV-DT and their refusal to pass-through the network's 1080i high def. These guys are evil. You should get the torches and pitch-forks and do a Frankenstein castle thing on them.

Bill - thanks for the support. Frankly, we find it hard to live with here as well. There have been some that have gone as far as seeking out the Topeka affiliate, most of us to no avail, to see the HD from CBS. Meredith just plain stinks and they're cheap as all h*** - they've lost virtually every decent newsperson they've ever had because they simply won't pay them. They actually had the opportunity to get the 1080i gear - it was offered to them by CBS national, but they turned it down and went with the SD stuff instead!!

Truth be told, the KC Star articles by Aaron Barnhart have probably done the most good (or damage depending on your perspective) as he's chastised them numerous times. It seems that the Chiefs are the key driver now in their renewed enthusiasm for HD, as CBS has like 12 of the 16 Chiefs games this year (they found some $$ and have "pseudo-committed" to going HD by sometime this fall).

So, we keep hoping and continue to be very jealous of markets like yours and even much smaller ones like Topeka, Des Moines, Wichita, etc.

Kendal

I do have to hand it to KCCI (CBS) and WHO (NBC) Des Moines ... they have been 1080i all along and have been on the air for almost a year & a year and a half respectively. Contrast that with the fools that run WOI (ABC) up here putting out a 0.5kw (I am not even exaggerating) signal that no one can receive. Don't even get me started on Merideth (CBS) in KC. They sent me an email that I posted on this thread regarding their HD plans this fall ... their only motivation is the 80,000 rabid KC Chiefs fans that would pillage and burn their station if they refused.

KCTV5 (CBS) says they hope to be online with HD by the start of the fall lineup, so we'll see.

This may be an elementary question but doing searches on the forum for "smear" and "smearing" isn't getting me anything and I'm wondering if this is a KMBC issue or not.
I always get a smearing effect on the trailing edge of Ch 9's upconverted material on at least my Sony 51" projection set thru my dish 6000 in my bedroom and in the 6000 in my living room on my G15.
I don't remember getting it using the MYHD card though I've only watched it that way a couple of times for recording.
Is it likely to be an antennae issue, KMBT-DT, or a 6000 issue?

Thanks,

Larry

I would say it's KMBC. A lot of their studio/control equipment is analog and I don't think they have the greatest upconverter. Most of our STB's are also taking their upconverted 720p signal and upconverting AGAIN to 1080i. That being said, their HD looks great!! Keep up the excellent work KMBC!!

Now, 38 and 41 *should* look great. They are upgrading their entire facilities to digital and they also have an excellent upconverter. They will also be in 1080i so our STB's won't have to do a conversion.