I am currently typing this message using a 25ft shielded cat 5 Ethernet cable. The image is extremely clear noticeably better than my 30 foot bundled coax that I normally use. To make the test more difficult, the Cat 5 cable is actually two separate pieces with a junction box 6 feet away from my monitor. This will be the cable that I will use as my HT redesign reaches final completion.

The idea actually came from Thumper. Dismayed by the price of plenum or standard rated coax cable and video amplifiers for his installed, he started tinkering with the idea of using Ethernet cable to run his video signals. He shared his success with me

He told me that I could get good results with standard Cat 5E cable and outstanding results with shielded Cat 5.

Well, premade shielded Cat 5 cables are a little hard to come by so I first tried the experiment using unshielded cat 5. I bought a 25 footer cut it into two 6 foot and 19 foot section and put an HD-15 on each of the cut ends. I then put an in-line Ethernet splicer to join the two Ethernet ends (explain latter). This yielded a long HD-15 to HD-15 cable.

Well the results with this cable where far from stunning. I got plenty of ringing and blurring at most frequencies including really bad results at 60 Hz.

I explained my results to Thumper and he told me to redo it with shielded Cat 5. I was very skeptical because I wasn't having a noise problem but ringing (i.e. impedance mismatch) problem instead.

That's when it hit me; general Cat 5 is 100 ohm twisted pair; however, with the shield tied to ground on the shielded version this would help lower the impedance to closer to video's 75 ohm requirement. I decided to give it another try.

The construction details:

The only local place I could find shielded Cat 5 products was at Fry's. L-com has them but they are mail order and a little more expensive.

I did the exact same thing as before. I bought a 25 foot shielded cat 5 cable and cut it into a 6 foot and 19 foot piece. I also bought a shielded Cat 5 junction box, two HD-15 male solder cup plugs and to 9-pin metal hoods (HD-15 is the same size). I wired the HD-15's in the following fashion to the shielded cat 5 cable.

HD-15 pin Cat 5 color
-------------------------
1. Red + Orange
2. Green + Green
3. Blue + Blue
4.
5.
6. Red - (aka GND) Orange stripe
7. Green - (GND) Green stripe
8. Blue - (GND) Blue stripe
9.
10. Ground (GND) shield wire.
11.
12.
13. H sync Brown
14. V sync Brown stripe
15.

The "-" signals are actually the very same ground as "Ground" is. The H and V don't need their own separate ground line. The results were excellent as I stated before.

At this point you might be saying cool but what does shielded Cat 5 give me over bundled coax? It gives a few things:

1. Thinner form factor.
2. Cheaper cable. Plenum being much cheaper
3. Much easier to solder to an HD-15 connector. Bundled coax requires shield terminators when soldering and big mouth back shells to allow the larger diameter of the cable to exit.
4. similarly, no break-out BNC to HD-15 cables required. These bring their own problems

and my favorite,

5. It allows me to manually switch four RGB sources between 2 displays. This would normally require a matrix switcher which is usually $1000+. To do this, I have two Ethernet jacks (one for my UP-1100 and one for my Princeton Graphics monitor) and four cables (HTPC, AccessDTV, Digital cable and Dreamcast) that go in in any configuration that I want.

All of this with an outstanding video quality to boot. This is really cool.

Thanks Thumper,

-Mr. Wigggles

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The Mothership is now boarding.

[This message has been edited by MrWigggles (edited 06-12-2001).]

makes you wonder what you could do with a simple hub http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif

Here is something similar to what you are talking about, though probably costs a lot more this way.
http://www.svideotorca.com/vgacat5.html


Enjoyed your findings.


Johnny

Mr. Wiggles,
You may be an excellent engineer, but you are not a marketing executive. What the videophile community wants is a cable that "increases the realism and color saturation, rendering an image that exceeds the original source, causing the viewer to be immersed in a three dimensional pan-reality!"
Your cable would likely qualify if shrouded in a silver / mu metal braid, and charged $200 a meter.
http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

SM

Another AVS investigative reporting success. Way to go Mr. Wigggles!!! I have been waiting for a matrix switcher for a reasonable price. I was passively interested until I read that part. What do you suppose will be the effect as the cables are lengthened?

originally posted by raoul:
makes you wonder what you could do with a simple hub

Actually it makes me wonder what he could do with a string and a used yogurt cup http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif However, a hub sounds like a bad idea since all of the devices could be feeding at the same time. I'll have to investigate the junction box Mr. M mentions as I'm unfamiliar with it.


------------------
The button is labeled "Play", not "Pay". STOP the MPAA!
Our Silent Angels (http://www.rettsyndrome.org)
Please visit The Manny Page! (http://www.chartermi.net/~themanny)

[This message has been edited by Man E (edited 06-13-2001).]

Mr. Wiggles,

I hope I am not asking too much, but would you be so kind as to post a picture or two? I think that would help me understand exactly what you did (so i can do it too!)

Specifically,

"I also bought a shielded Cat 5 junction box, two HD-15 male solder cup plugs and to 9-pin metal hoods (HD-15 is the same size). I wired the HD-15's in the following fashion to the shielded cat 5 cable."


Thanks,

Eric

[This message has been edited by eric_steimel (edited 06-13-2001).]

I will post pictures when I get a chance after Infocomm.

-Mr. Wigggles

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The Mothership is now boarding.

How about something like this:

Blackbox RJ45 spliter (http://catalog.blackbox.com/BlackBox/templates/blackbox/itemgroup97guest.asp?param=659&ig_id=97&title=RJ%2D45+Modular+Splitters&related=)

(BB doesn't seem to like the link, you can go to blackbox.com and look under Cables & Connectors -> Adapters -> RJ-45 Modular Splitters)

Might let you view the same source on more then one TV.

-apnar

[This message has been edited by apnar (edited 06-13-2001).]

Originally posted by apnar:
How about something like this:

Blackbox RJ45 spliter (http://catalog.blackbox.com/BlackBox/templates/blackbox/itemgroup97guest.asp?param=659&ig_id=97&title=RJ%2D45+Modular+Splitters&related=)

(BB doesn't seem to like the link, you can go to blackbox.com and look under Cables & Connectors -> Adapters -> RJ-45 Modular Splitters)

Might let you view the same source on more then one TV.

-apnar

[This message has been edited by apnar (edited 06-13-2001).]

Looks like the FM810 or FM830 models would do it, they're shielded and they send all pairs to each jack. Just don't get the 'b' pinning models... Now, if they only had one of these with a switch built in...
STP isn't cheap by Ethernet standards, but it sure as heck is cheaper than braided coax, and much easier to run, crimp, and maintain. I LOVE this idea!!!

Pinning A only passes two lines. Pinning B passes all lines. I can't see how this would be safe because if all devices were active at once, there would seem to be an overload condition... but I'm no expert.

Mr. Wigggles, in the absence of your pictures could you please post make/model information or make some comment on this issue?

Thanks!


------------------
The button is labeled "Play", not "Pay". STOP the MPAA!
Our Silent Angels (http://www.rettsyndrome.org)
Please visit The Manny Page! (http://www.chartermi.net/~themanny)

MrWiggles, I want to see those photos, yes I know I have to wait until Monday. One question, why do you buy a cable and then you cut it in two pieces...sorry for the question but I don't know anything about ethernet cables.
Federico

Mr. Wiggles,

Interesting post. Could you please provide the cable brand name and manuf. p/n for the 25 ft. shielded Cat 5 that you purchased from Fry's? Also, do you know if all "plenum" rated cable indicated shielded? Fry's carries a 500 ft spool of that.

Thanks!

Jim

Mr. Wiggles,

Interesting post. Could you please provide the cable brand name and manuf. p/n for the 25 ft. shielded Cat 5 that you purchased from Fry's? Also, do you know if all "plenum" rated cable indicated shielded? Fry's carries a 500 ft spool of that.

Thanks!

Jim

Hi MrWigggles,

After a quick Fry's run last night, I sat down and built a Cat-5 VGA cable, per your instructions, using shielded Cat5 cable and a shielded coupler. Overall, the image quality was very nice, certainly much better than the replacement VGA cable I mistakenly bought last week. (ghosting like you wouldn't believe)

However, I did notice a small amount of noise in the image, when compared to the 3' cable I usually run between my HTPC and my DLP projector. Did you do any A/B tests using a standard cable and notice any differences? (I don't think I would have noticed any difference if I was using a tube based display)

Also, did you jumper the shield wire to the metal frame of the connectors? (haven't tried this yet) The shielded cable I picked up (the only one I could find on the shelf http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif) was only rated for 100mhz, as opposed to the 350mhz cable I usually use, not that this should make a huge difference here, but thought I'd ask anyway.

This was more of an experiment for me at the moment, as my HTPC and projector are right next to each other. But a cable of this type will be very useful when I add an HDTV set-top box to the main equipment rack on the other side of the room in a few months. Now I've got to open up one of the wall jacks this week and see what kind of Cat5 the contractors put in last year. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Thanks.
DB.

The difference between Cat 5, 5e and Cat 6 cables is almost totally in the realm of crosstalk rejection. This is done through twisting the different pairs at different ratios. as the cable gets longer this will start to be noticed. IE Pair 1, pair 2, pair 3 and pair 4 are all different lengths. At a longer distance this will manifest itself as a convergence error.

As far as the rating of 100 mhz goes, this is due to the rating of the category. the cable will handle higher frequencies, just with more loss. Cat 6 cables are all rated at 350 MHz. Twisted pair wiring has alot more loss than standard coax, so longer lengths should not be attempted in this manner. Also, it is very prone to picking up stray EMI and RFI. THere are companies that allow you to run over TP cabling distances of 1000' and sometimes longer with High resolution signals and not see any noticeable difference. THese however involve a transmitter and a receiver.

Dizzman,

Thanks for the info but in the realm of HT I don't think we will have any convergence error under 50 Ft.

Like I stated earlier I did my experiement on a 25 Ft cable and I don't plan to use anything that long in my final install. Results at 25 ft were nearly flawless and would be considered great for any 25 ft cable.

Don't bother with the bandwidth numbers they are pretty much useless for comparison and are completely dependent on length. For instance, a 1 ft cable of any material would have an almost infinite bandwidth.

Please also bear in mind that HD is a 30 MHz signal, SXGA at 85Hz is about 60 MHz. I tried my cable at XGA at 85 Hz and that is higher than HD with no noticeable softening.

The pF per foot of shielded cat 5 are actually less than normal coax an that is what plays a significant role in frequency bandwidth.

-Mr. Wigggles

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The Mothership is now boarding.

[This message has been edited by MrWigggles (edited 06-18-2001).]

To help those trying this cabling application.

This is a followup to the termination configuration Mr.Wigggles layed out in his starter post above:

[To crank up the performance yet another notch, solder all the "grounds" and shield together (inside the shells) at both ends even though the video card & projector combine these grounds on their circuit boards.]

So far we have installed about 150 overhead monitor & projector connections this way and have 60 more on tap to do in the next two weeks. It really does work http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif

Thumper

Thumper, thanks for the input. What lengths are you achieving in these installs?
Thanks!


------------------
The button is labeled "Play", not "Pay". STOP the MPAA!
Our Silent Angels (http://www.rettsyndrome.org)
Please visit The Manny Page! (http://www.chartermi.net/~themanny)

Otaku,

If you use the cable with your DLP projector you might have to mess with the fine tuning phase adjustments. I got absolutely no noise using my cable. These type of adjustments are pretty typical when changing your cable typw and especially length.

I didn't ground the metal shield of the HD-15 to ground. It wasn't necessary and it would have taken a lot of heat to solder.

everyone,

I will get the pictures ASAP.

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The Mothership is now boarding.

any pics yet to further illustrate on how to build these. It would be difficult to solder a VGA HD-15 connector to all those cat5 cables wouldn't it? Can you provide a little more detail as to the cables construction Mr Wiggles?

My projector/DTC 100/HTPC only use VGA connections not component video cables. Are these cables suitable for my application then? These cables also have to be able to connect to an Extron VGA switcher as well.


------------------
Serge

<FONT size="1">Parasound AVC 1800
B&K AV 5000 II
Monitor Audio Silver 5's, silver center and silver 3's(rears)
HSU VTF 2
Toshiba DVD
Mitsubishi LVP X70 FPTV
Dalite High Contrast Da-mat 16:9 grey screen
RCA DTC 100
HTPC consisting of Duron 750, AOpen motherboard, Radeon LE video and Turtle Beach Santa Cruz sound</FONT s>

bump

------------------
Serge

<FONT size="1">Parasound AVC 1800
B&K AV 5000 II
Monitor Audio Silver 5's, silver center and silver 3's(rears)
HSU VTF 2
Toshiba DVD
Mitsubishi LVP X70 FPTV
Dalite High Contrast Da-mat 16:9 grey screen
RCA DTC 100
HTPC consisting of Duron 750, AOpen motherboard, Radeon LE video and Turtle Beach Santa Cruz sound</FONT s>

Man E,

I run a number of length tests a few months back using the shielded Cat. 5E cable & HD15 connectors. At 1600x1200 the maximum length acheived was about 45' before "ringing" was [barely] dedected.
At lengths below 35' the Cat 5 yielded a slightly "crisper" image when compared to a reference 400Mhz, dual-shield, 5-core-coax cable. IMHO, I believe this is due to the extremely low capacitance of the shielded Cat 5E - around 8 - 10 pf per foot; compared to 16+ pf per foot of high quality 5-core VGA cables.

Power,

As Mr.Wigggles noted, the connectivity of Shielded Cat 5E is much easier than the 5-core coax to HD15 connectors. No shield braids to contend with, no braided center conductors, just 24AWG solid copper wire. Plus the cable fits the shell backs. Anyone whom has hand-soldered a 5-core coax cable to a HD-15 knows exactly what I am saying here http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif

Please note this cable can only be used with HD-15 and similar type connectors, It is not suitable for BNC connectors.

Thump

Any chance of getting Have inc or someone else to custom build some of these cables? I'm too lazy to pull out the soldering iron

------------------

Alex

where do i find HD-15 (VGA) connectors? Also, need answers to my questions regarding the compatibility issue in my system (prior post above). Everything should be fine but i want to make sure before i try these babies out. Thanks

------------------
Serge

<FONT size="1">Parasound AVC 1800
B&K AV 5000 II
Monitor Audio Silver 5's, silver center and silver 3's(rears)
HSU VTF 2
Toshiba DVD
Mitsubishi LVP X70 FPTV
Dalite High Contrast Da-mat 16:9 grey screen
RCA DTC 100
HTPC consisting of Duron 750, AOpen motherboard, Radeon LE video and Turtle Beach Santa Cruz sound</FONT s>

This is very interesting. My question regards to my soon to have (hopefully) Arcam DIVA DV88 player with Silicon Image Progressive scan board (SiI503 motion adaptive de-interlacer chipset). It also has apart from progressive component, VGA out.

Question 1:
What ouput yields the best image? Component (with good quality cables) or RGB VGA (cat 5 shielded).. I have to run this image to a DLP projector less than 30ft away.

Question 2:
Have anyone had the pleasure to test a player with the SiI503 chipset side by side with a HTPC? Any insights for 800*600 DLP?

Fredrik Rasmussen

Power,
You can get HD15 connectors at Markertek.com.
When you order can you get 2 more for me or let me know and I will order.

------------------
robert

As promised,

The 25 ft test assembly:

"http://www.geocities.com/mrwigggles/test_cable.jpg"

A shileded coupler:

"http://www.geocities.com/mrwigggles/coupler.jpg"

The difference between a normal and shielded plug:

"http://www.geocities.com/mrwigggles/shielded_vs_normal_plugs.jpg"

Wiring detail:

"http://www.geocities.com/mrwigggles/wiring.jpg"

A coax equivalent HD-15 cable. Please note the heat shrink shield terminators used - about $2.50 a piece:

"http://www.geocities.com/mrwigggles/coax_wiring.jpg"

Big mouth backshell neccessary for bundled coax cable:

"http://www.geocities.com/mrwigggles/big_mouth_backshell.jpg"


Trust me when I say the shielded cat 5 way is much much easier.

I am sorry the pics are a little fuzzy. This is as close as I could get before my digital camera would get completely blurred.

All components for the shielded cat 5 video cable were bought at Fry's. The shielded cat 5 cables were premade by Unicom (spelling) which I cut up to put HD-15 connectors on.

Good luck. If you have any type of soldering skills, these cables are pretty easy to make.

-Mr. Wigggles



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The Mothership is now boarding.

Well, you could buy this BALUN and avoid soldering or could you ?
http://www.onlinenetworkservices.co.uk/twinballun.html

------------------
Stop DFAST

Well, I spent several hundred dollars to purchase 40' VGA cable from BetterCables.Com. Can someone explain to me why buying a shielded Cat5 cable, and a couple of connectors for &lt; $25 and a couple of hours for soldering would have given me better results ? What is it about the CAT5 cable that is so magical ?

Gireesh.

------------------
Stop DFAST

The baluns don't work as well as they say they will according to Thumper. I have never used them myself.

There is nothing "special" about using shielded cat 5 other than it ease of use. The better cables cable you mention is fantastic and would be difficult to make by yourself. That is the whole point. Simpler, lighter, cheaper with equivalent results (not to mention the ability to actually pull the cable through walls without having to manuver an HD-15 connector throug your wall).

This is definitely a do-it-yourselfer type item. If a person has done any electrical work and therefore soldering then this is a great idea.

-Mr. Wigggles

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The Mothership is now boarding.

My thanks to Thumper and Mr. Wigggles!

I put two 25' cables together today and they look great. Took me a while as my soldering skills are a bit rusty (about 30 years) but it was quite doable.

The 25' cable looked flawless viewing an HBO HD movie on an HD direct view. I did see some ringing when the two cables were hooked in series (50') but that was expected from Thumper's comments. (One of the cables has a female connector for connecting a BNC break-out cable.)

A couple of hours work saved about $350! Now maybe I can afford that Panny RP-91 DVD player. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Frank L

Originally posted by Thumper:
To help those trying this cabling application.

This is a followup to the termination configuration Mr.Wigggles layed out in his starter post above:

[To crank up the performance yet another notch, solder all the "grounds" and shield together (inside the shells) at both ends even though the video card & projector combine these grounds on their circuit boards.]


Thumper

Ok, this post lost me. I only see one shield/ground wire in the above starter post by Mr. Wiggles. Are you saying there are more?

Tim

Tim,

What Thumper is saying is you need to jumper all of the grounds together with a few small pieces of wire. I don't think it is necessary because the signals are undoubtedly all connected together on the actual graphics card or whatever device you are plugging into that has an HD-15 connector. Soldering all of the little jumper wires wouldn't be that difficult but would require a little finesse and of coarse little more time.

-Mr. Wigggles

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The Mothership is now boarding.

Just covering all the bases here, is there any reason why this would not with component inputs? It seems like it would since component also uses lines 1-3 and 6-8 (but would leave 10, 13, and 14 vacant).


------------------
The button is labeled "Play", not "Pay". STOP the MPAA!
Our Silent Angels (http://www.rettsyndrome.org)
Please visit The Manny Page! (http://www.chartermi.net/~themanny)

Man E,

It should work really well with component. I have to disagree with Thumper about the use of any coaxial connectors on one side or even both sides. I think it would work fine. Just make sure you solder the cat 5 shield wire to one of the three coaxial grounds on the coaxial end (preferably the Y channel). I haven't done it but I think it would work just fine.

-Mr. Wigggles

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The Mothership is now boarding.

This will be great if I can get it to work. Federico asked the question about the reason you cut the cable length into two pieces and then reattach in a connector box. What is the reason for this? Hope I can get this trough my head because I was just about to order a 10 meter 15-15pin cable from Better and have been dreading spending that much on a cable.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the reason is so you can switch between different sources and monitors.

For example, I drive a monitor and a projector, and I have an HTPC and a Dish 6000 receiver. By having two lengths of cable, I can easily switch between the different devices...

At least, this is what I am planning on doing...


[This message has been edited by Maynard (edited 06-24-2001).]

Martin,

I by cutting the cable in two pieces and using a coupler I was demonstrating that the juntion point wouldn't degrade the signal.

As Maynard mentioned, I plan to have a junction box with two sockets for my two display devices and 4 cables each from a different source to plug into the two sockets in any manner I please.

-Mr. Wigggles

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The Mothership is now boarding.

Thanks Wigggles and Maynard. Makes sense now. Time to start soldering . later

where can i purchase the quality shielded CAT5 cable and 15 pin d sub connectors(VGA) from Mr Wiggles is referring to. Everyplace i check out like Markertek has one or the other not both. Any recommendations? Does Fry's carry both and do they ship?

------------------
Serge

<FONT size="1">Parasound AVC 1800
B&K AV 5000 II
Monitor Audio Silver 5's, silver center and silver 3's(rears)
HSU VTF 2
Toshiba DVD
Mitsubishi LVP X70 FPTV
Dalite High Contrast Da-mat 16:9 grey screen
RCA DTC 100
HTPC consisting of Duron 750, AOpen motherboard, Radeon LE video and Turtle Beach Santa Cruz sound</FONT s>

Power,

Just about any electronic part store will metal HD-15 hoods including Radio Shack I believe.

The shielded Cat 5 is a little more difficult because it is less widely used.
www.l-com.com (http://www.l-com.com) has some pre-built cables. Fry's doesn't deliver to my knowledge. I used unicom cables ( www.unicomlink.com (http://www.unicomlink.com) ). Ask them who also caries their shielded cat 5 products.

-Mr. Wigggles

EDIT: I am not sure if Unicom makes the shielded cables anymore. They are part number F5DD........ and it is no longer listed on their web-site. You can call and ask.

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The Mothership is now boarding.

[This message has been edited by MrWigggles (edited 06-26-2001).]

If you're using solder-cup connnectors, then you'll definitely want to do the center row first, as Eirikur mentioned.

An even easier way to do this is to use connectors where you solder seperate pins onto the wires, inserting them into an empty D-Shell connector afterwords. This does require an extra tool (not that I ever complain about having to buy new tools) to insert the pins into the shell, and it'll be even more important to use the strain relief dohickey in the outer shell. It's much easier to solder the pins this way, and easier to put on heat-shrink tubing afterwords.

Planning on building a couple of cables like this over the weekend.

DB.

Has anyone tried this for component video yet?

Forgive my ignorance, but how many wires are in a CAT-5 cable? Would you be able to use two wires per component color and it all "fit" in one CAT-5 cable? I would love to save money by making a simple 20' component cable!

Does anyone know if this would work for S-Video also? If there are enough wires in the CAT-5 it would be cool to send down component and s-video to a projector over one cable!

Thanks
Robert

Eight wires (http://hths.mcvsd.org/Local-Archive/%232824439.0/CAT5_Pinout_ver2-1.pdf)

There are 4 twisted pair (8 wires) plus the outside shield. I haven't tried this.

One concern beyond the ususal electrical concerns, e.g. impedance matching, etc., would be mechanical integrity. I don't know of any ready made junction boxes for DIY one-to-many component cables, but then you could always DIY. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Frank

Originally posted by Thumper:
To help those trying this cabling application.

This is a followup to the termination configuration Mr.Wigggles layed out in his starter post above:

[To crank up the performance yet another notch, solder all the "grounds" and shield together (inside the shells) at both ends even though the video card & projector combine these grounds on their circuit boards.]

So far we have installed about 150 overhead monitor & projector connections this way and have 60 more on tap to do in the next two weeks. It really does work http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif

Thumper

Thumper or Mr. Wiggles,

What about jumpering all the "-"'s and grounds and connecting them to the shield. Would one still really need the connecting wires for Red-, Green-, and Blue- ?

If not, then there are 3 wires for "other" uses.

Just a thought, I have my shielded Cat5 on order.

Jay

Jay C,

By all means give it a shot. However, electrically you'll be fine, but the Z impedance at the terminations will definitely be changed probably for the worse but I don't really know.

Give it a shot if you want. but, with solder cup HD-15's the task is pretty easy both ways.

-Mr. Wigggles

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The Mothership is now boarding.

I just picked up on this thread and had a comment on the grounding issue. From what I've read (i.e. Grounding and Shielding Techniques in Instrumentation/Ralph Morrison) connecting shields at both end can cause a ground loop. Typically you would want to float one end of the shield. I'd suggest trying it both ways and go with whichever works best.

Bizzaro,

Nope, This isn't an earth ground issue. All grounds are electrically the same at the connectors.

You could always give the one side connection a shot, but the results will probably be the same as the Unshielded results. i.e. the shield will help reduce noise (if noise is a problem in your set-up), but it won't do anything to lower the cat 5 characteristic impedence of 100 ohms. And ringing should still be a problem.

-Mr. Wigggles

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The Mothership is now boarding.

Jay where did you order your cables? I can't find them anywhere up here.

I need HD-15 on one end and 5-BNC on the other. I do have a male HD-15 to 5-BNC breakout cable. I my best bet to put a female HD-15 on one end and use the breakout cable, or try to put five BNC conectors on one end of the Cat5? I think fludolph mentioned that he had done the former. It does sound like it would be a pain to put the five BNCs on, but would it result in better signal quality?

- Chris

This works great! Saved me a bundle! I created a 37 foot
SVGA cable for less than twelve dollars.

Tip, I have in case you want to do this is to solder the middle row of pins first.

Originally posted by Martin P:
Jay where did you order your cables? I can't find them anywhere up here.

IAC is a local distributor in Memphis that my company uses. I contacted our supplier and told him it was for home use. who he contacted I do not know. I thought it strange that e told me shielded Cat5e is also called Cat7 which was unavailable to him at this time. So I went with shielded Cat5. .25 a foot which didn't sound too bad to me. If all goes well, I'll run a network link to my HT room in prep for a HTPC in the future. Also I'll use about 30' to make a VGA cable as Mr. Wiggles has described.

Where do you live, maybe I can help get some to you in smaller sizes. There was no restriction on how much I ordered (big or small).

Jay

Just a follow-up...

I used plastic hoods with metallic paint.. Think I paid about .70 cents each.. I would have used metal, but they
did not have them in stock.. The shielded plastic ones work fine. At least in my experience. I got my cable
from altex electronics in Dallas, I am sure you can mail-order from them as well.. Not sure what there web address is.. Their phone is (972) 386-8882

I'm getting ready to make one of these cables to connect my new HTPC to my new LT150. In the NEC manual, it mentions pin 12 as "bi-directional data" and pin 15 as "data clock".

In Mr. Wiggles graciously provided information, he doesn't wire up these two pins.

I assume these aren't needed by projector to computer communication?

Thanks!

Billy,

Those are monitor ID pins. They help tell the computer what monitor you have. If they aren't connected, you have to tell the computer manually what display you have. It is no big deal and it is a "problem" with BNC type cable runs as well.

For completeness, you can short the pins to ground on the computer side of the cable and leave them unconnected (like you are now) on the projector side.

-Mr. Wigggles

Ps. Actual RS-232 control of your projector is done through another port on your projector.

------------------
The Mothership is now boarding.

Chris,

I already addressed your concern earlier.

-Mr. Wigggles

------------------
The Mothership is now boarding.

www.cdw.com (http://www.cdw.com) sells Belden Cat5e shielded. 150' for $39. Is this suitable for this application? It looks good to me, but i'm not sure if shielded should be for the entire cable or for the individual wires.

the part number is 125950

-Spencer

[This message has been edited by Spencer Seung (edited 06-30-2001).]

That cable will work.

-Mr. Wigggles

------------------
The Mothership is now boarding.

Thanks for the responce and the offer Jay. I think I will give the place Spencer posted(CDW.com) but if I can't get it there I may be back begging.
I live in the Great White North by the way where not only is it hard to get supplies but the damn Dila bulb is so hot my Igloo is starting to melt.

Well if anyone wants to buy the CDW cable and doesn't need all 150' let me know. I would be willing to buy 75' for half of your puchase price. I will pay shipping to my house. Otherwise I will just buy 150' feet of cable. Will the signal survive that distance?

Tim

tim,

The signal will make it 75' but I can't guarantee your results. Thumper feels that 40'-50' is about the max for critical viewing.

Good luck

-Mr. Wigggles

------------------
The Mothership is now boarding.

Anyone know where to get shielded cat5 cable in Australia (Perth)??

I don't understand, from my computer technical knowledge, UTP cat5 cable is Unshielded Twisted Pair. And now all of a sudden we're talking about Shieled UTP cable??

Anyway, has anyone made up a component cable yet? The result??

And how about a VGA-&gt; 5RCA? What would be the wiring schematic? Would you need 2 x Cat5?

I have a couple questions for those who have tried this. Would this technique work for making an s-video cable? Would this work for a rca-rca component video cable? I am presently using 3 solid copper core quad shielded home made cables and I seem to be getting some ringing with my 400Q. This would be a cheap alternative I would be willing to experiment with.

Regards,
Chuck

------------------
------------------
Stop DFAST.
Boycott JVC!

Chuck,
The problem with what you are asking is that there is no convenient way to terminate Cat-5e with RCA connectors, without an impedance mismatch or some unshielded length of wire. This technique is best used for HD-15 (VGA) connectors at both ends.

As for your "ringing problem": Good quadshield RG-6/U is very low loss and has fairly consistent impedence. For component RGB are you:

1) Using precisely identical lengths of cable for Red/Green/Blue?
2) Terminating each run with good quality metal shell solder type RCA connectors, rather than using adapters?
3) Can you inspect the entire length of each cable to make sure there are no kinks, no crimps, and no abrupt bends?

It should work fine if done right. For S-video, the transition from the bulk and diameter of dual RG-6/U to the mini-DIN connector is a difficult problem I have as yet no good solution for, other than S-video breakout cables, which introduce another pair of connectors in each cable.

Gary

[This message has been edited by Gary McCoy (edited 07-12-2001).]

Well when you say percise I believe they may be off as much as a half inch. I am not sure. How precise is precise?
I should mention that these cables are 50' in length. I tried to be exact as possible but the minute the cables flexed one way or another the length would change. I would think I am no more than 3/8" off. It is impossible to tell without a specific cable measuring device.
Chuck

------------------
------------------
Stop DFAST.
Boycott JVC!

[This message has been edited by Chuck Coughlin (edited 07-12-2001).]

Originally posted by Shaw:
I don't understand, from my computer technical knowledge, UTP cat5 cable is Unshielded Twisted Pair. And now all of a sudden we're talking about Shieled UTP cable??


You're almost there, UTP is Unshielded Twisted Pair, but what you're looking for is called STP which stands for - wait for it - Shielded Twisted Pair...

------------------
Darren Rogers

Stop reading my signature....
NOW!!!
I really mean it, you're starting to get on my nerves!

Can some one give me advice on how I can stop the ringing that im getting from the cable I made?
Any solutions to ringing
phase and sych didnt do it ?????????????????????/

jgaines,

As MrWigggles pointed out in the original post, ringing is caused by an impedance mismatch problem, i.e. something is wrong with the cable, and you aren't going to be able to fix it by adjusting your projector. It would help if you would provide the following information:

- What type of cable you are using (brand, part #)
- How long is it
- What kind of connectors you are using
- Do you have a breakout cable in the path

You might want to try re-flowing the solder on each of your connections, or even just starting over (i.e. cut the connectors off and put on new ones). Also, double-check that you have connected all the grounds per MrWigggles' original post, especially the shield wire.

Anyone who has successfully built one of these cables, could you please clarify grounding of the CAT5 shield. My shielded Cat5 has a foil cover and I am wondering how to connect the shield to pin # 10 for grounding.

Also, do I need to connect the foil (shield) to the metal hood in addition to pin # 10. I think Mr. Wiggles suggested this won't make a difference. Can someone please confirm.

Thanks much.

MAK

MAK,

There should be a ninth wire. It is an uninsulated wire that presumably makes contact with the foil shield along the length of the cable. This is what should be soldered to pin #10. If your cable doesn't have this wire, then it's going to be difficult to make it work. If you check and it really doesn't have this wire, please post the brand and part # of the cable that you are using so others can avoid it.

- Chris

Thanks, will do.

MAK

Chris

The cable im using is a quabbin data max shie;ded stp100 ohm cable(bought from altex)

Its 20 feet long
connectors are silver

I have a viewsonic projector
I have the evc-vga adapter
I took pin 9 out on the cable

I will try starting over
it looked good for a while then all of a sudden the ringing came
Thanks for your help...

I was thinking about this whole idea recently, and had a thought... Could one use STP terminated in RJ45 jacks, and plug them in to a RJ45 -&gt; Dsub15 adapter? Of course, finding an RJ45 -&gt; Dsub15 adapter would be tough, so my thought was to use the jacket & wires from a RJ45-&gt;DB9 adapter and just replace the DB9 with a Dsub15. Hmm, what would I connect the ground/shield wire to?



------------------
Darren Rogers

Please stop reading my signature....
NOW!!!
I really mean it, you're starting to get on my nerves!
Listen, I'm not kidding here, if you keep reading, you're gonna regret it!
Look into my eyes, and do not doubt my reslove - if you persist, you will be taught a lesson you will not forget!

Chris,

The shield wire was there. My 33' cable is connected to a BNC(component) break-out cable and seems to be working better than the 25' shielded VGA extension I was previously using. The only problem is, this is not the only HW I have changed. I am not sure whether the current performance should be attributed to the new cable, the new DVD player or to servicing/cleaning my VT540 http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif.

Whatever the reason I am happy with the way things look now http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif.

Thanks everyone for the help and special thanks to Mr. Wiggles for his great work.

Cheers

MAK

I am all ready to make this cable but the 100 ohm shielded cat 5 cable I bought has the following colors:
red, green, blue, orange, white, black, brown, yellow.
here is a link to the cable http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.asp?EDC=075068
it doesn't say shielded but it is.
how do I wire this cable using the diagram with these different colored wires? I am confused since the instructions have different colored wiring.
thanks,
Jeffrey

Jeffrey,

Connect the Red, Green, and Blue to pins 1, 2, and 3.
Notice what color each of these is twisted together with.
Then:

6: color that is twisted with Red
7: color that is twisted with Green
8: color that is twisted with Blue

It doesn't matter which of the colors that are left are
connected to pins 13 and 14 as long as you do the same
thing on both ends.

- Chris

thanks so much!!!

sh*t. the twisted color combos are
blue/orange
white/brown
black/yellow
red/green

should I just connect blue for blue, red for red, and white for green?

As you can probably guess, the color of the insulation won't affect how it works. It is just nice to have the colors correlate with the signal that they are carrying. Your proposal should work fine. As long as the pairs are used on pins 1/6, 2/7, and 3/8, you should be OK.

- Chris

I have plenty UTP cat5 cable around here, would it be worth the trouble to solder a s-video cable with this?

I would just solder pin to pin connections on each end using 4 wires, instead of using a s-vide cable with 4 wires.

Lenght would be appx. 5 meters.

------------------
/Sören
My DVDs (http://www.dvdprofiler.com/mc.asp?alias=soren&type=O&sc=C&ls=T)

[This message has been edited by soren (edited 07-21-2001).]

Soren,

Remember from MrWigggles initial post, that the "secret sauce" that makes this work is the shielding. He tried UTP first, and the results were poor. The explanation was that the shielding brought the characteristic impedance from 100 ohms down closer to 75 ohms. S-video also requires 75 ohms, so it would apply to your situation too.

- Chris

Is there any way to make these wires without soldering? I've never soldered before and do not have a soldering iron.

If not, is there anyone interested in making a little money doing this for me?



------------------
Take care,
JC

jalaram,

I can't think of any way to do this without soldering. You can get a soldering iron and solder for less than it will cost in shipping if you have someone else do it for you, not to mention the "labor". You'd still have to learn how to solder. Soldering is really pretty easy, but it does help if you have someone showing you how to do it in person.

Still, I can understand if you'd just prefer to pay someone else to do it. My son helped me build mine. As we were working on it I mentioned to him that he might be able to make some money by building these for people who didn't want to be bothered with the soldering. He's only 10, so I'd be doing the actual soldering until he learns how. I'd let him keep the money, but it would be good father-son time for me.

I was going to e-mail Alan (AVS) to make sure it was not an abuse of forum privileges to post offering this service. Hadn't gotten around to it yet, though, and since you asked, I feel OK responding. We were thinking of charging $10 per HD-15 connector, plus the actual cost of the materials.

E-mail me at csatt@cisco.com if you are interested!

- Chris

JC, earlier in this thread somebody mentioned using a crimp-style HD-15 connector. A very good quality crimper for 24-gauge pins is about $40, and a pin puller tool another $10, so it's actually more money than buying a soldering iron, solder, and solder wick. The only advantage would be the skill level would be somewhat less than with solder connections.

With either of these alternatives, you will need a good wire stripper capable of stripping 24-guage stranded copper wire without nicking it, about $15.

Learning to solder would be my reccomendation, if you intend to pursue audio/video as a hobby. You can buy the tools and build "very good" cables that perform as well as the very expensive boutique cables, and be dollars ahead on the first purchase.

Gary

For those of you still wondering if shielded cat5 will work for HDTV component cables (or are just sick of reading LT150 posts), rest assured it works! I followed Mr. Wiggles advice and used the shield ground to ground the Y connector (green) and it works great on my 25ft cable. I used RCA plugs on both ends, since I couldn't find what looked like the appropriate BNC connectors (they usually expect coax). I just purchased some RCA to BNC connectors. Cheers!

Originally posted by belmore:
For those of you still wondering if shielded cat5 will work for HDTV component cables (or are just sick of reading LT150 posts), rest assured it works! I followed Mr. Wiggles advice and used the shield ground to ground the Y connector (green) and it works great on my 25ft cable. I used RCA plugs on both ends, since I couldn't find what looked like the appropriate BNC connectors (they usually expect coax). I just purchased some RCA to BNC connectors. Cheers!

Would you post pictures please?

Regards,

Brian

It's very simple actually. Unfortunately I used all my wire, so I really can't show you step-by-step instructions using pictures. I'll do the best I can just explaining it. It really is incredibly simple. Sorry if I give way too much detail here.

Here's the cable I used:
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F005%5F001%5F008%5F000&product%5Fid=910%2D1621

It's not actually a cat 5 cable, but it worked fine regardless. It's a Belden shielded cable containing only 3 twisted pairs vs. the 4 pairs that a cat 5 cable uses. I picked it up from a local RadioShack.com store here in Atlanta. I also purchased 6 RCA phono type connectors.

Pick up a soldering iron with a small head. RadioShack.com had one for about $10. Get a roll of 60-40 resin flux core. Thin 0.75mm diameter.

Remove about 2 or 3 inches of the plastic sheathing of the wire. Carefully peal back the wire mesh (this is what I refer to as the shield wire) to expose the other wires. In case of the wire I used, besides the wire mesh, there is also another separate shield wire that will be exposed once the mesh is pulled back, resting against the foil. This separate shield wire is like the other wires, but lacks plastic sheathing and makes contact with the wire mess. You could form a similar wire using part of the mess wires if necessary. Cut away the mess if you have this separate shield wire, if not cut away the excess mess wire that you didn't use to form a separate wire.

Peel back the metal foil and cut it away. Cut away the insulating fibers as well (not sure of the technical terms for these, but you'll know what I mean).

What you should end up with (if using the 3 pair wire I used) is 7 wires (3 pairs and the shield wire). Strip the sheathing off the tip of these wires with your finger nails. Remove just enough of the sheathing to expose just the tip of the wire. All you want is enough exposed to slip into one of the solder holes on the RCA connector and bend it over. If you remove too much, the exposed wires may be able to touch after soldering to the RCA connector and cause a short. If you remove a little much sheathing, simply cut a little off the tip of the wire.

The RCA connectors will have two solder points, one that is attached to the "prong" part of the plug and the other the "outer sleeve". Again, forgive my terms here.

First build the Y (green) connector, since it's a little unique from the others.

Remove the plastic or metal screw on shield from the RCA connector. Untwist the green-white wire (green with white stripes or spots) from the white-green wire (white with green stripes or spots). Cut away the white-green wire You won't need it. Instead, we'll use the shield ground wire.

Slip the plastic or metal shield over the shield ground and the green-white wire, so that we can attach it to the RCA connector after soldering. Rest the RCA connector in something to hold it steady while soldering. I used a pair of vice grips, but be careful to only use light pressure or you'll damage the connector.

Slip the end of the green-white wire into the prong's solder hole of RCA connector and bend it over. Hold the wire slightly taunt to keep in place. Use the same hand to control the solder. Use the soldering iron with the other hand. Press the soldering iron against the wire and the connector. Press the "thread" (?) of solder to the same point. Continue "feeding" solder until it forms a good connection. Without releasing the wire, pull the iron away and blow on the solder point until it cools slightly. This whole process should not take more than a few seconds.

Solder the shield wire to the RCA connector's sleeve in a similar fashion.


Solder the red-white to the prong and white-red wires to the sleeve of another RCA connector. Solder the blue-white and white-blue wire to another RCA connector. Repeat this whole process for the other end of the wire. The important thing about the colors here is to be consistent on both ends of the wire.

Ok, here's a couple of pictures for you:

http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/atl/b/h/bhelmore/cable1.jpg

http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/atl/b/h/bhelmore/cable2.jpg

[This message has been edited by belmore (edited 07-25-2001).]

Originally posted by belmore:
Slip the end of the green-white wire into the prong's solder hole of RCA connector and bend it over. Hold the wire slightly taunt to keep in place. Use the same hand to control the solder. Use the soldering iron with the other hand. Press the soldering iron against the wire and the connector. Press the "thread" (?) of solder to the same point. Continue "feeding" solder until it forms a good connection. Without releasing the wire, pull the iron away and blow on the solder point until it cools slightly. This whole process should not take more than a few seconds.



One point of caution. Do not blow on a hot solder joint. Just simply remove the iron and hold the wire while the joint cools off by itself. It shouldn't take longer than 2 seconds anyway. The problem of blowing on it, or moving the wires while a hot solder joint is cooling is known as a cold solder joint. The electrical characteristics of this type of joint are somewhat diminished. You can spot a cold solder joint by its dull luster. You want to strive for a shiny joint for the best results.

Also, you only want to heat the immediate area, so you should not have to leave the iron against the metal very long at all. Oh, and a good trick, especially for the connectors in the pictures, is to buy a small tube of solder flux. Put a small amount on the metal tab first and heat it with the iron. when you think it's hot enough, then feed some solder into the contact point (where the ion is touching the tab). Try to leave a small blob on the tab. Then, when you are ready to attach the wire to the tab, all you have to do is reheat the solder, stick the wire in the middle, and remove the iron to let it cool. Much quicker, and you are going to have a higher success rate with you joints. I used this method on over 32 of these things and found it to work the best.

Good luck,
Jay


[This message has been edited by Jay C (edited 07-25-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Jay C (edited 07-25-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Jay C (edited 08-01-2001).]

Cheap source for CAT5 STP. Also, VGA cables seem of resonable quality. http://www.national-tech.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?text=cat5+stp&type=any

------------------
Greg

I have not jumped on this yet, but am planning too. I was wondering if a device like this http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F013%5F011%5F000&product%5Fid=278%2D785
could be used to split the signal to two different sources, without degradation?

Thanks,

------------------
Adam

Nope. Don't confuse the RGBHV signal with any form of Ethernet. We are simply using some Ethernet cabling and termination hardware to carry a very different signal.

You can use the Cat-5 cable, you can even use the Cat-5 junction boxes as patch panels or to sub for more expensive video crossbar switches. But do not try to process an RGBHV signal through any active Ethernet electronics or even through the transformer-type splitter above.

The reason this won't work: we have used one of the four twisted pairs in the cable (Brown/Brown Stripe) for H and V sync signals, and the splitter above would short the two signals togather, possibly damaging equipment. Nor should this be tried with the three-twisted-pair YPbPr component video variant discussed in the last few messages, because the splitter is intended for the 100-ohm impedance of the twisted pair without one wire grounded, not the 75-ohm variant that results from our scheme.

The proper way to drive two monitors with one signal would be to terminate the Cat-5 cable with the VGA connector, then run through a normal VGA distribution amplifier.

Gary

Just finished building my first pair of cables and wanted to send a big THANKS to MrWigggles and Thumper. The cables work beautifully and the Cat5 STP will be so much easier to run to my ceiling mount (once I actually do it) than any of the alternatives would have been.

Originally posted by UpSide:
I am all ready to make this cable but the 100 ohm shielded cat 5 cable I bought has the following colors:
red, green, blue, orange, white, black, brown, yellow.


I just bought some cable similar to what UpSide got. It is shielded but not twisted. Does that make a difference.

What is the pin sequence on the DB15 connector? Looking at the exposed pins, is it:

1.3.5.7.9.11.13.15
.2.4.6.8.10.12.14

If RJ-45 connectors are going to be used, what is the ground shield wire connected to? Do you need to use an RJ-45 connector for shielded CAT5 cable or do you use regular RJ-45 connectors (for non-shielded cable)?

Thanks.


[This message has been edited by GaryWW (edited 08-02-2001).]

[This message has been edited by GaryWW (edited 08-03-2001).]

Gary,

I'd be very wary of using anything other than cable specified as "shielded category 5". I don't think you'll get good results with non-twisted.

Which end of your cable uses a DB-15 connector? The standard VGA connector is HD-15, which is a DB-9 sized connector with three rows of pins. The pin numbers are
usually marked on the connector (but you need good eyesight or a magnifying glass to see them). Here (http://reality.sgi.com/christig/db_15.gif) is a picture of a female DB-15. If you are using a male DB-15, then this is what the pin numbering will look like from the side you solder to. I still question whether DB-15 is really what you want. I don't even know which pins you would want to connect to.

If you are putting your own RJ-45 connectors on, you will need to make sure they are the shielded type, which have a metal covering over them. You also need a tool to put these on. I haven't done this, but the pre-made ones from Frys (Unicom brand) have the shield wire folded back and crimped under the connector so that it makes contact with the metal shield. You can see it peeking out from the back edge of the RJ-45.

- Chris

Chris,

You are sooo right. Wrong cable (although I asked for the right stuff) and wrong connector. I'm on track now. Thanks!

I bought the correct HD15 connector today and I can just make out the pin numbers.

BTW, do the shielded RJ-45 connectors require a special crimper? I have access to a crimper for unshielded RJ-45.

I would think that a normal crimper would work, but I haven't done this. Give it a try and report back with your results!

- Chris

Another newbie on this forum. This is my first post so "please be nice". I've been lurking around this forum for some months and had all my questions answered by searching and reading a lot of your post. You know a lot on this forum...

Right now I'm waiting for my projector to show up but would like to prepare some cable and this cable sounded like a cheap and good solution. But I can't seem to figure out how to read the connection to the HD-15 male solder cup plugs and I'm sure it is because of my poor english.

If I count the numbers of cables MR Wigggles is using I get 11 (Two for pin 1,2 and 3) and (1 for pin 6,7,8,13 and 14) but the cat 5 cable only has 8?

What am I missing here ? Is it OK only to use 1 cable on the pin 1,2 and 3? e.g. green for pin 2 and green stripe for pin 7? Is this the way I should read the post.

Thanks in advance
Anders

EDIT: Forget it. I figured it out...

[This message has been edited by atjensen (edited 08-09-2001).]

Originally posted by Chris Satterlee:
I would think that a normal crimper would work, but I haven't done this. Give it a try and report back with your results!- Chris

I talked to some guys today who do LAN cable installations for a living and they said a regular crimper would work. I will report back next week after the cable and connectors arrive.

atjensen & all,

Only one wire gets attached to one pin.

I think there is confusion because maybe not all cat5 cables have the same colored wires. The cat5 unshielded cable that I'm looking at right now has Orange-white/White-orange, Blue-white/White-blue, Brown-white/White-brown, and Green-white/White-green wires. And the "minor" colors are a thin stripe running the length of the wire. Other people have wiring where the "minor" color is in bands.

Purchased some STP today and the necessary connectors. I'm also going to try some RCA connectors for a component connection. Can someone help me figure out what size shrink tubing I need? Thanks.

Originally posted by jin kim:
Purchased some STP today and the necessary connectors. I'm also going to try some RCA connectors for a component connection. Can someone help me figure out what size shrink tubing I need? Thanks.

3/32" for the wire pairs. 1/4" for over the entire Cat5 cable.

What are the chances of this technique (transmission over shielded CAT-5) working for a DVI interconnect which I believe is based on a 29-pinout rather than VGA's 15-pin?

If this might work, how CAT-5 cable runs would be required?

-- John

If you want to try it on DVI i say good luck, it will never work. the connections are too precise, the data speed is FAR too high, and most importnatly, with DVI, there cannot be ANY difference in length between any of the pairs. In a cat 5/5e/6 cable there is always a difference in the lengths.

DVI cables cannot be manmade. (i am sure that there is one person out there who will prove me wrong) Mere mortals do not have the skills required. And the cable used is also very precise.

If you want to try it on DVI i say good luck, it will never work. the connections are too precise, the data speed is FAR too high, and most importnatly, with DVI, there cannot be ANY difference in length between any of the pairs. In a cat 5/5e/6 cable there is always a difference in the lengths.

DVI cables cannot be manmade. (i am sure that there is one person out there who will prove me wrong) Mere mortals do not have the skills required. And the cable used is also very precise.

I'm happy to report that I was successful in making one of these cables. I burned through 4 HD-15 connectors with my horrible soldering skills, but I finally got one working. 50 bucks for a 35' VGA cable is a sweet deal!

Brian

I must be missing something, is the only reason to make this cable is for ease of running thru walls?

would anyone know if there would be a degradation in signal if a male-female DH-15 couple was used as a junction between cable sets?

what was the reason that Mr.Wigggles opted for the Ethernet jacks? It seems that a RJ-45 crimper would cost more than the cost of everything else related to the cables.
-jeff

Boatman,

See MrWigggles' initial post in this thread for his list of five advantages of these cables. The big two (IMO) are the thinner form factor and the ability to do poor-man's switching. While is it is true that the thinner form factor makes it easier to run cables through walls, it also makes it possible to run the ON THE SURFACE of walls without destroying room aesthetics. I just installed mine last week. I used Liquid Nails to glue it to the corner between the ceiling and the wall (actually just below the crown moulding), and then painted it. Unless it is pointed out, no one would notice that it is even there. This is what makes this technique such a "killer app" for me. I had deferred buying an HDTV STB for months because I didn't want to deal with tearing my room apart to run a new cable. Now I am happily enjoying HDTV on my G11, thanks to MrWiggles and Thumper.

Jeff,

RJ45 connectors are very easy to plug and unplug. Most people aren't crimping their own, but are buying premade shielded cat 5 patch cables. You cut the premade cable into two pieces and put the HD-15 connectors on the cut ends.

- Chris

Thanks Chris, I thought I was missing something. I'll stick to my 40' vga cable its working just fine, don't need any more problems.

this place has a number of manual switch boxes: http://www.iec-usa.com/framepr.html

http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/image_uploads/SEB4152.jpg


this one is only 23.00 (the economy model). There is also a Lifetime Guaranteed model for around $60.00.

could this work for our purposes? maybe I will have to give them a call, dont really see any info on bandwidth, but if it is a true VGA switcher than it should work, right?
-Jeff

ps. they also have cat5 by the ft.

Originally posted by boatman:
I must be missing something, is the only reason to make this cable is for ease of running thru walls?

Well, I made one because a similar length cable from bettercables was going to be $325. This cable cost me about 50 bucks and some trial and error.

Brian

Using the "Mr. Wiggles" method of shielded Cat5 VGA, (thanks Wig...) I took another step. I have a Toshiba 6200 Progressive scan DVD player as well as my DTC-100. Both with 15 pin connection output. With the LT150 Ceiling mounted and my equipment rack built into a wall, It was going to be a pain to manually switch cables with the sources, or expensive with a switcher of any substantial quality. Here is what I did.
I took a 6-foot BNC to VGA breakout cable to a Female hd15 connector soldered to a 2 foot pigtail of Cat5 shielded cable, teminated this onto a Cat5 shielded patch panel. From there, I have a 27 foot Cat5 shielded cable to a male hd15 connector plugged into my new LT150. Jumpered together with a 3 foot Cat5 shielded patch cable. I also have a 3 foot piece of Cat5 shielded with a male hd15 terminated on the patch panel as well. Now to switch sources, I just move one end of the patch cable. Works great! No visible signal degradation from tests when I was plugging directly into the LT150 with a six foot cable. I also have a Toshiba TW56x81 that uses the same sources. A third Cat5 pigtail feeds a Audio authority VGA to Component converter to the Toshiba. All of this cost me less than $125.00 and a few hours time. I hope this can help someone else or at least give them some ideas!



------------------
Patrick Simon

OK,

Can someone please tell me which Belden Cat5 cable would be the cable of choice for this project. I was looking at Belden 1585A but this is unsheilded. Any part #'s anyone?

------------------
Serge

<FONT size="1">
Acurus Act-3 ABM processor
B&K AV 5000 II
Monitor Audio Silver 5's, silver center and silver 3's(rears)
HSU VTF 2 subwoofer
Toshiba DVD/cd
Mitsubishi LVP X70 FPTV
Dalite High Contrast Da-mat 16:9 grey screen
RCA DTC 100
HTPC consisting of Duron 750, AOpen AK 73Pro motherboard, Radeon LE video and SBLive! Value II sound
Extron VGA SW2 switcher</FONT s>

For those looking at HD15 video switchers, even some of the more expensive ones aren't what you want: http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/Forum11/HTML/015615.html


------------------
The button is labeled "Play", not "Pay". STOP the MPAA!
Our Silent Angels (http://www.rettsyndrome.org)
Please visit The Manny Page! (http://www.chartermi.net/~themanny)

Silly Question but, when making the HD15-Component (3 RCA) why are you using the overall shield ground on the (Y-) RCA plug instead of just using the (Y-) wire twisted in the pair?

Drew

This "dammed http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif" HT world I stumbled into. It gives me headaches and very little sleep. What was supposed to be an easy job (making this cable) has turned into a 30 hour project.

The problem started when I received the little devil called LT150 ( I LIKE IT !!! and it is my first projector). I do not have a HTPC, only an interlaced DVD player (Panasonic DVD RV60). I mistakenly assumed that RGB = YbCr because my DVD player outputs RGB and I thought that RGB was component. Well, it is not the same. I figured out that I need the composite signal as a source for H(V)sync and I tried to feed the projector with this signal but only with limited success. I can see an image for a split second then it disappears.

By further searching the internet I found out that I need some kind of sync separator which converts the composite signal to H&V sync (RGBS to RGBHV) and probably also amplifies the signal?.

Now the question is: Can I make this device my self and if yes where can I find some circuit drawing describing what I should do?

Can I buy this device and if yes where could I buy it?

You probably need to know that I'm European and that it should work with PAL. I'm not looking for some $500 device which makes me do all kind of things to my signal even though that could be nice, but my budget for the next several months was used when I bought this projector.

Please help and thanks in advance
Anders

Anders, please peruse your LT150 Users Manual. It is probably the case (as with my VT540) that the YPBPr signal is connected to the same RGB (aka HD-15) connector, but with a different cable that has no connection to the sync pins (pins 13 and 14). Then you select between "RGB" and "Component" within the Setup menu.

There is an earlier series of messages in the thread where the construction of component video cables with three RCA plugs is discussed.

Gary

Thanks Gary but I have tried that. There is no possible way the projector will accept the RGB output from my DVD player. The RGB output from my DVD player is without HV sync and designed for televisions sold in Europe. For some reason they constructed the TVs to take the sync signal from the composite signal. All this is done through a SCART interface which carries both composite and RGB signals. The "advantage" of this is that a TV with no cabability to receive the RGB signal will use the composite instead. That's what I've been told by the dealer and found on the internet.

The RGB signal from my DVD player equals the RGB signal from a PC but without the sync http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif

Because the projector does not accept the sync signal from the composite (The composite sync signal only has a strenght of 0.3Vpp and the projector needs 0.7Vpp) I can not get the projector to accept the RGB signal nor the sync.

That's the problem

Anders

Anders,

You might want to try moving to the USA http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif I found the users manual (http://www.techtronics.com/uk/shop/files/user-manual/UserManual-Panasonic-DVD-RV60.pdf) for your DVD player, and it's certainly a different animal from anything we see around here. It sounds to me as if you are on the right track. I hope someone steps up with a circuit for you. Unfortunately I've been in the world of ones and zeros too long to be of any help.

- Chris

Thanks for looking into it Chris. I don't think it's an option moving to the USA. I wouldn't know what to do with all of my PAL and 220V equipment. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif

This has been a long night but it seems like I found a solution. I found this page describing my situation http://www.epanorama.net/documents/vga2rgb/scart.html This led me to order a few ICs and some components. It seems like I'm going to build my first circuit including an IC http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

A pdf file describing the IC can be seen here if anyone has the interest http://www.maplin.co.uk/PDF/LM1881.pdf

The IC extracts the V sync from the composite signal and outputs it separate. I hope this will be sufficient to get the projector to accept the RGB signal from my DVD player.

If someone is thinking OH NO !! this is not going to work because it will ????, please let me know http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Anders

So tell us a little more about how you will input RGB to your projector. I now understand that your RGB does not have the sync signal embedded, that is called "sync on green" I believe, because the composite sync is mixed into the green signal. If your intent with this circuit is to combine the green and sync signals for input on pins 2 and 7, then set the projector for "component video" input, that sounds correct.

I presume you understand that there are two forms of this component video, the interlaced and the progressive, and the sync frequency for the progressive form is double the interlaced. The projector will accept both but the interlaced signal will get "line doubled" using the internal circuitry of the projector. This may or may not produce acceptable video quality. The alternatives to improve this would be 1) use a quality external line doubler like a DVDO with an RGBHV output or 2) get a real progressive scan DVD player with embedded "sync on green" component output.

Gary

Hi Gary. Nice that you care.

48 hours ago I didn't know anything about this at all. I just couldn't get my newly acquired LT150 to accept the RGB signal now matter what I tried. I took my DVD player to the store I bought it and had them test that there was indeed a signal when I choose RGB and there was and the DVD player played a DVD through RGB . By then I knew that the problem wasn't the DVD player.

When I investigated further I found the information posted earlier.

As you mention my RGB signal is not "Sync on green". That is called RGsB. My RGB signal is RGBS which means "sync on composite". When I connect the composite signal to V-sync I sometimes get a picture. The picture doesn't last long (at most ½ second then the image "tears apart" and a few seconds later I get blue screen. I learned that this is because the strength of the signal is not strong enough (only 0.3Vpp).

What I plan to do is to make a little electronic device which is feed with the composite signal. The device the reads the sync information and isolate it. It then amplifies the signal (up to 1.5Vpp) and outputs the V-sync signal. I can then take this signal and feed it together with the RGB from the DVD player.

I don't know about the H-sync because I can't find any information regarding this so I have to try with only V-sync. If it doesn't work I only spent about $6-7.

If I understand you correct you suggest that I combine the green signal with the composite signal and thereby make RGsB? Wouldn't that be dangerous and wouldn't I risk making a shortcut and fry my DVD player ? I ask because I honestly don't know.

Regarding the DVDOO and similar devises I have thought about it. It is just a little to expensive right now and furthermore I don't think the LT150 will accept a progressive PAL signal (I don't know this for sure but seem to remember someone mentioning it a while back)

Anders

Thanks to Mr Wiggles and Belmore, I have successfully put together some cables. I kind of question how long the solder joints will last (my first time soldering, what a pain in the @ss trying to solder 9 small wires into the HD-15 connector!), but it's working great right now. I have a 19 foot cable terminated in a HD-15 connector going into my LT-150 and the other end with an RJ-45 connector going into a coupler. I also made two more cables terminated with Canare F-10 RCA connectors for component connections to my Samsung HDTV STB and DVD player, so I have a fairly easy way to switch sources. Thanks!

John,

You won't find 75 ohm "cat 5" since cat 5 is a specification, and that spec says it has to be 100 ohms. The theory is that connecting the shield with the signal grounds bring the characteristic impedance down closer to 75 ohms. It's not clear to me how this works when one end uses BNC connectors.

If you have a bit of length to spare for an experiment, you should try replacing the BNC end with another HD-15 and seeing how it works using the Computer 1 input of your D-ILA. If this looks good, then you'll know that the BNC connectors are the culprit. I know that you need to use Computer 2 for the HD, but this experiment will at least tell you if it's the BNCs that are giving you trouble. Keep in mind too that 40' is right about at the limit of where this solution works well. My first attempt at one of these cables was 50' long with a female HD-15 on one end, which I connected to my Computer 2 input via a HD15-to-5BNC breakout cable. I was quite disappointed with the ghosting. I then cut it down to 38.5' with a male HD-15 and connected it to Computer 1 and it looks great. I was never sure whether it was the length reduction or getting the breakout cable out that was responsible for most of the improvement. Fortunately for me, using Computer 2 is not a requirement.

The "color smearing" may be a different problem. If you mean by this that it appears that the R,G, and B don't appear to be perfectly converged, then this is probably caused by the "pair skew" that Dizzman brought up in an earlier post in this thread, and which has been discussed some more in another thread. (http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/Forum10/HTML/007970.html)
If you have Dilard, you can use the Pixel Alignment Wizard to check this and adjust for it. One thought I've had is that with the proper choice of which pair is used for which color, you might even be able to use the pair skew to your advantage to compensate for slight panel misalignment that most D-ILAs have.

- Chris

Has anyone tried to make a cable with an EVC connector on one end. I've got a Davis clone and would like to try this if anyone's had success. Anyone know where to get EVC connectors? I'll give it a try if I can find a connector.

Well, I've made a cable using the CDW STP cat5 cable. I got my HD15 connector from Radio Shack and bought some BNC connectors (I'm connecting an HTPC to a D-ILA and want to do both HDTV and SXGA on the same projector input which is RGBHV). The BNC conectors are Radio Shack part number 278-126. They were fairly easy to solder and attach. The signal part attaches with a screw and the grounding part needs to be soldered.

The cable is about 40 feet. I tested it and while I did see improvement over my cheap extension cables, I did notice faint ghosting and a little smearing of colors. I'm wondering if the cables are not right or do I have an impedance mismatch... or both. I know the impedence of the cable is different that the standard 75 ohm that is used in video equipment connections and cables. I'm not sure of the impedence of the BNC connectors or the HD15 connector but there is a problem. I could also have bad solder joints since but I've checked those and they look good. The only solder joints that are suspect are the BNC grounding joints but that is not used for the signal so i should not see any ghosting due to that.

Any suggestions or help? Does anyone sell 75 ohm stp cat5 cable?

Thanks..

-- John

[This message has been edited by brzez (edited 08-22-2001).]

Question:

I bought a 25 conductor cable that doesnt seem to have twisted pairs, but it is indeed shielded. Would this be usable? Here's the item I'm talking about:
http://www.jameco.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ExecMacro/Jameco/searchResult.d2w/report?sort=&search=31851

My first attempt is a 35-40' long cable, but I get quite a bit of ghosting at 1024x768, is this the result of noise caused by the lack of twisting, or is this more of an impedance or out of phase problem?

JoseQ

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http://www.speedhost.com
<A HREF="http://www.emuviews.com" TARGET=_blank>http://www.emuviews.com
</A>

Could you use the following combinations in order to build an easy RJ45-HD15 adapter:
http://www.national-tech.com/specs/31d1-17200.htm http://www.national-tech.com/specs/31d1-17400.htm
http://www.national-tech.com/specs/30h1-06100.htm http://www.national-tech.com/specs/30h1-06400.htm

For under $38 (plus shipping) I can get a 14' patch cable, the adapters above, a shielded coupler, and a 50' cable (all shielded). I don't know if the connectors are shielded or if they even need to be. Since the CAT5 is shielded that may (or may not) work.

Tell me if I am off my rocker. The adapters would be cheaper than the HD-15 connector with the shielded cover.

Hmm, cheap and quick with much less soldering.

Oh, here is something else at RatShack that may be of some use....
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F007%5F000%5F000&product%5Fid=950%2D0358

Then again, it may just be Monday http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

** bump **

I'm sure that this was lost during the events of last Tuesday.

Anyone running this mod with VGA to BNC successfully.
Wondering how the picture quality differ.
If any.
Thanks Hugo

Anders,

Why bother? All DVD players sold in Europe worth mentioning have component output. Only rock-bottom players don't. So why not upgrade to a new player, especially considering that you should run a progressive signal to your LT150 anyway.

I'll be going from my VGA-HTPC to BNC-DILA G11U.
Using a CAT 5 Cable
Anyone tried this .

HUgo

[This message has been edited by Hugomed (edited 10-12-2001).]

Hugo,

I would be concerned about losig shielding once you break-out of the Cat5 for the individual connectors. As I understand it, a large part of the sucess of this method relies on maintaining the shielding throughout the cable. Thus the shielded compact connectors are recommended, like the VGA D-Subs.

But hey, who knows how bad it will be till you try?

------------------
Ken B.

I see what you are saying, Between the CAt5 cables strands there is no Shield introducing maybe some noise.

If there is no risk to my projector I would like to try it.

Hugo

Anyone tryed VGA <-> RGBHV(5*BNC)?

Maybe the cat5 shield could be connected to one of the BNCs ground like MrWigggles suggested with the Y connector on the Y-Pr-Pb breakout.

Thanks in advance.

Noone tryed this?

Are there alternative reasons (besides cost) for doing all of this work to get video over CAT5? I think CAT5 is something like $0.20/foot whereas very good 75 ohm 5-conductor cabling is $1.40/foot. Granted, that's a huge difference, but when you're looking at, say, 30 ft, it's only $36. Compared to the cost of the rest of the system, I'd say this was a pittance.

So, I ask -- am I missing something?

Jake

Jake,

You have very good points.

For the people who are doing component video runs with coaxial connectors on the source and display, this cat5 solution won't have much benefit.

However, for others there are benefits:

1. Form factor - Shielded cat5 is thinner and lighter than multi-coax cable. this makes it a lot easier to pull through walls as well. I like putting on my connectors after running it through the walls. This leads to #2.

2. HD-15 connectors - getting coax wires to go on hd-15's takes shield terminators, big mouth backshells, and a ton of soldering time. Good shield terminators are a $1 a piece.

3. Cost - as you mentioned, but plenum coax is much more expensive than plenum cat5 when the building/fire codes come into play.

4. Signal switching - using shielded recepticles, manual switching is very possible. RJ-45's are easy to switch in and out. When more cost effective higher performance KVM switchers (without the V and M) are produced electronic switching will be a better option; but for now it isn't IMHO.

So for those who have multiple sources and displays with moderately long cable runs, using shielded cat5 is quality cost effective option.

-Mr. Wigggles

Or, if you dont want to spend a lot of time building them, and get some cables at ridiculously low prices go here:
http://www.pccables.com/cgi-bin/orders6.cgi?id=ID582971&rsite=www.pccables.com&rcode=&action=Search&search=MONITOR

Originally posted by MrWigggles
1. Form factor - Shielded cat5 is thinner and lighter than multi-coax cable. this makes it a lot easier to pull through walls as well. I like putting on my connectors after running it through the walls.
I've made this point many times before. The shielded cat5 is thin enough that you may be able to get away without going through walls at all! This is what made this such a killer solution for me. I glued it along the bottom edge of my crown moulding and painted it. It is virtually unnoticeable and does nothing to detract from the aesthetics of the room. The only way I could get HDTV into my system was to run another cable, and I was simply not going to tear up the room again. If it weren't for this thread, I would not be watching HDTV today. Thanks once again MrWigggles - it's great to have you back!

- Chris

OK ,

I recently got a DLP projector and haven't set it up properly so far, what I was lacking was a 'long-enough' VGA cable to connect it to my PC. The solution given here was pretty convenient for me as I'm in the IT business and can get RJ45 cables so easily ... So yesterday I took a 5m long cable: Cat 5e, FTP and made my cable. The result is quite decent regarding ghosting compared to the previous 3m VGA cable that I had and which was really worse, BUT I can see the 'beating' of my fans on my screen !!! Don't really know how to call this in English but it's quite annoying, is this normal or is there a way to get rid of it ? should I re-make my cable.

For Info, this was using res. 1024*768 @ 85Hz on my TFT monitor.

Thanks for your help

Are you using shielded cable? Sounds like it could be an induced voltage on your cable. If you do use a shield, make sure it is only grounded at the source (PC) end to avoid ground loops.

I built a 40' cable using unshielded Cat 5 and got good results.

A clamp on ferrite may also help, should be available at most electronics supply houses or on line at www.digi-key.com

I finally found a local supply of cat5e cable

http://www.cablek.com/new/cat_page/cat/cables/28UTP_STP.html

It is base in Montreal. I was about to order when I notice they have some shielded cat5e with 5 pairs instead of 4. Will that be better? that way I could have the H an V with their own ground. Please let me know so I could make that cable ASAP. :)

I will like to know what are the rating for. Should I go for the 4 pairs 24 AWG solid or the 4 pairs 26 AWG stranded?

Thank you!

Bruno

Do I need to beg? :)

Please! Please!

Just hooked up my recently built home-made 35' cable. Looks as good as my store bought 6' breakout cable with no ghosting. Get the 4-pair solid and you can't go wrong. You don't need the ground for the H & V sync. Just more soldering to do!

Petey

The thread that won't die. That is a good thing.

If you want 5, go with 5. The H and V shouldn't matter all that much if they have a seperate ground or not. Those lines only toggle during the black front and back porches of image. During the actual image those lines are stagnit. They simply don't need perfect impedance matching to operate correctly.

Also the 5 twisted-pair cable is going to have a thicker form factor than the 4 pair stuff. That is something to keep in mind.

-Mr. Wigggles

I just built a cable for my sanyo xp30, mounting it on a 20' ceiling tomorrow.

My problem is that With 20' up, +/- 40' to the back of the room, my run is going to be quite long.

I bought 100' of STP and did a test-solder with the whole roll, blurring is quite bad, not too much ghosting.

If I have to run 65 feet of cable, is there any way to increase the PQ? Will those little ferrite clamp-ons help? (I'm pretty sure they're just for noise, right?)

Anyway, even if it doesn't do what I need it to, it's still the best temporary solution until I can buy some good 75' cable.

I finally made one of those cable. I am happy with the quality but the image is not perfect. To give you an example. If I look at the mouse pointer I could see that the pointer image is repeat 2 times. The repetition are really light and barely noticeable but they are there. How can I eliminate this? The cable I made is 50 feet. I don't need that long, 35 feet at worst. Will reducing the length solve that repeating problem? They were discussion of shorting the ground at the extremity. Will that help?

Thank you!

Bruno

Chilidog,

I am assuming that the 100' was on the roll? This will add a considerable amount of extra inductance. Any cable will perform better laid out. Also 100' is a long ride for this type of cable. I would try to keep it to 30' or less.

Bruno,

Same comment. Your results at 35' should be much nicer than 50'. Also, try the cable with a computer monitor first; it is an ultimate judge of picture quality. Some of the ghosting can be eliminated or toned down with the phase control in your projector's image controls. 50' is a long haul for any cable. Getting flawless picture quality at those lengths will require some very nice thick cables from bettercables or similar. And it might still be difficult since the HD-15 connector will be the limiting factor at some point.

-Mr. Wigggles

I've just run the cable on saturday, need to pick up a few more hd-15 ends.
Anyone have a part no.? Good places to mail order?

STP cable is the hard part.

Radio Shack (if they are in Canada) will have the HD-15 male connectors that you need and I think they will have the metal backshells as well.

-Mr. Wigggles

Thank you Mr Wigggles!

Radio Shack as stores in Canada. For STP cable in Canada you can go to www.cablek.com

Radio Shack as 25 feet STP cable.

Bruno

It seems people are having trouble finding the shielded CAT-5. I called the local electrical supply house (you know, the place with all the electrical contractor vans out front.) They had 2,000 feet in stock. I don't recall the exact price, but it was pretty cheap. Worked great.

I had no trouble finding the cable (best computers in Edmonton) but The 'Shack I bought the HD-15's from is sold out, and the part #276-1501 doesn't register on RatShack's Canadian website!

Does anyone have a digi-key (or other) equivalant part #? the d-subs on digi-key are kinda hard to sort out...

Hi all,
I Know some of you are having trouble finding Cat 5 shielded cable. Alot of suppliers will not sell in "short" lengths. I have some spare I would split up into 25-50 foot sections, if anyone is interested...

Just made some of this up and I get a narrower picture width using my XVGA computer output @ 1024*768. I am using STP cable with a coupler inline but I noticed that the coupler does not carry the shielding through it, even though I ordered a shielded coupler, looks like I got this unshielded one! Is carrying the shield across the RJ45 connectors a must? I would think so because, like Mr.Wigggles said, wire pin 10 of the HD15 connector to shield ground of the cable. I did this as stated but without a totally shielded coupler carrying this ground through the RJ45s, problems may occur? My LT150 manual states pin 10 is 'sync ground'. Maybe having this ground broken at the coupler is causing my picture width to be distorted?

PS - This cable worked good using component video from my DVD player, which is obviously not using pin 10 on the connector.

Tony

Tyee,

I don't have the problem you are desscribing.

Make sure when you changed out the cable, the computer didn't change your monitors settings because the ID pins were now disconnected. With your picture width the way it is right now, change back to your old cable with the computer left on and see if the problem remains the same.

I have used normal couplers with horrible results on the long distance runs. You can get shielded couplers from Fry's, l-com.com, or even maybe datacom warehouse.

Digital projectors are real sensitive to any distortion in the H and V lines.

Good luck,

-Mr. Wigggles

Mr. Wigggles
I did some tests just now and found that when I take a very short wire (2") and jumper across the coupler to the RJ45 shields to complete the ground I totally eliminate the ghosting in the picture. I didn't mention this in the above post but it was there. I also manually went into the setup on the projector and changed the clock and phase controls back to the way they were with my old coax cable and voila, the width went back to what it should be. I guess when I leave the projector on Auto Adjust somehow the sync must be distorted and fools it into readjusting the clock and phase which it thinks is right, but this then squeezes the picture too thin. I'll try to order some shielded couplers tomorrow.

Tony

Does anyone have a source for solder-cup HD-15 connectors other than Radio Shack?
I built a 100' cable to test, everything worked so I ran the cable in the ceiling, cut to length, now I need another connector (the RatShack I bought the first 2 from is out).
Need an online source SOON!

EDIT-
I finally found a Radio Shack w/ the HD-15 connector, it turns out it's a discontinued item in Canada. For future reference, though, It would be nice if someone had a usable digi-key part #.

Can anybody tell me what cause ghosting? I build one of STP cat 5 cable. I seem to suffer severe ghosting. For example if I look at my mouse pointer I see it 3 to 4 times. Now what cause that. Bad soldering? Cable quality? Bad grounding?

What can I do to eliminate this? If it's my soldering any trick to give me?

Thank you!

Bruno

Originally posted by bgosselin
Can anybody tell me what cause ghosting? I build one of STP cat 5 cable. I seem to suffer severe ghosting. For example if I look at my mouse pointer I see it 3 to 4 times. Now what cause that. Bad soldering? Cable quality? Bad grounding?

What can I do to eliminate this? If it's my soldering any trick to give me?

Thank you!

Bruno

Additional information could help (length of cable, any splices imbetween, monitor or projector, etc.), but it sounds like you don't have the shiled wire grounded.

I doubt it is your soldering but you can always test that with an ohm meter to make sure a valid connection is being made.

-Mr. Wigggles

My cable is 50 feet for now. But it will be around 35 fleets when it will be permanent. The thing is I want to make sure it is going to work when I install it. I don't want to start my
electric husbox installation before I am confident with the cable. I don't want to cut the cable yet because I want the right length. The cable is not split. It is one piece of cat5
shielded. It got 5 twisted pair instead of 4. With my cable I was able to separate ground for H and V. I hook the shield wire plus the H sync ground to pin 10 and the V sync ground to pin 5.

Here is my connections
1 orange
2 green
3 blue
5 brown strip
6 orange strip
7 green strip
8 blue strip
10 black strip + shield wire
13 black
14 brown.

Thank you

I would try moving the wire on pin 5 (brown strip) to pin 10 (sync ground), and keep the two other wires there also.

Actually I don't think you need the sync ground wires at all. As long as pin 10 is connected to the shield of the cable at both ends it should work fine up to a certain length as has been said before (~30 ft.), then you might get ghosting above this length.

According to my info, pin 10 is sync ground for both horiziontal and vertical.

Tyee

Quite interesting. A quick search on Google turned up this HD-15 to RJ-45 adapter http://www.patton.com/subscriberline/article4.htm just drill down to the very bottom and you'll find it - for those with a soldering phobia.

How about if you take an RJ-45 block and mount an HD-15 socket into it (some minor cutting would be required), wire it up internally and then plug your VGA cable into it and your shielded cat5 into the other side.

Another way for those with a fear of soldering would be to take a VGA cable, cut it in half (one end for HTPC one end for PJ) and then using two RJ-45 blocks simply connect the cables inside hence making your own "dongle" adapter.

This way you would be able to use a pre-made shielded CAT5 cable if you don't have the crimp connectors and crimping tool to make your own.

Originally posted by tyee
I would try moving the wire on pin 5 (brown strip) to pin 10 (sync ground), and keep the two other wires there also.

Actually I don't think you need the sync ground wires at all. As long as pin 10 is connected to the shield of the cable at both ends it should work fine up to a certain length as has been said before (~30 ft.), then you might get ghosting above this length.

According to my info, pin 10 is sync ground for both horizontal and vertical.

Tyee

I did what you said. The ghosting is less pronounce but better than it was. Could I also short the ground at each extremity. I think I read it somewhere but I am not sure if it's dangerous.

What I mean is linking all the strip wire (red ground, green ground, blue ground , h sync ground and v sync ground) together.

Bruno

bgosselin,

The only thing I can think of is that the cable you are using isn't 100 ohm. Your wiring isn't exactly like mine but is very close. You could desolder the "black strip" and "brown strip" at one end of the cable and see if that helps

At 50 feet you will get some mild ghosting but nothing like you are describing.

As far as shorting all of the grounds together, that will be fine but the components you are using more than likely have all of the grounds shorted together internally.

I think your results will be better at 35 feet.

-Mr. Wigggles

Thank you for your respond. Shorting pin 5 and 10 together gave me better result and I am able to eliminate most of the ghosting with the sync settings on my projector. The image look better for film purposes, but you can see it's not perfect with text.

How can I find if it's 100 ohms? My cable is stranded instead of solid can that make a difference?

I bought it there http://www.cablek.com/new/cat_page/cat/cables/28UTP_STP.html

part number STP-5P-26B no mention of 100 ohms. The rating is 26AWG instead of 24AWG. Is the rating on the page a technical specification I should know about.

I also forgot to mention that my projector is a Viewsonic PJL830 (Davis DL450 clone) and need an EVC connection. I have a converter than change my DB15 plus to a EVC plug. I guess the converter could be a cause of ghosting. Can I find an EVC plug that can be solder? That will eliminate that problem. Thank you again for your help!

Bruno

I've read much of this thread . . . and have a question. Can decent B&W video (from chip cameras for CCTV) be transmitted over 100 ft of ordinary Cat 5 (or 5 enhanced) . . . unshielded?

My wire is already run, and (in most places) can't easily be rerun.

Stew,

I have seen people run 50ft+ of cat 5 no problem. Normal video is no problem.

-Mr. Wigggles

Here is the information on the HD-15 male ends from the Digi-key website:

Digi-Key Part Number: T815M-ND Quantity
Manufacturer Part Number: 180-015-102-001
Manufacturer: NorComp, Inc.

Description 15 PIN MALE HIGH DENSITY D-SUB

www.digikey.com

I have read through all the posts under this thread and made a 15 meter (around 50feet) cable with the UTP cat5 that I have plenty of (without connecting pin 10)

I hooked it up between my pc and monitor and there was no ringing or ghosting whatsoever.
Then I connected it on the pc in my office and I see ringing everywhere

Having played around with it for a week and I came up with a thought: maybe it was the graphics card that made the difference

I use a Geforce2 MX 32mb at home, no ringing at any resolution
Savage4 4mb in my office, 800*600 achieved the best result
For those of you who can not get rid of the ringing problem, please try running at different resulutions AND refresh rates

As a newbie here, I would like to share with you my experience of building a 15meter(50feet) S-video cable using UTP cat5's

--------------------Y ----------------C
---------------------*----------------*
------------------*----------------------*
---------------Y(-)------------------------C(-)

Buy any S-video connector you can find and solder:
1. blue solid and brown solid on Y, red solid and green solid on C
2. blue stripes and brown stripes on Y(-), red stripes and green stripes on C(-)

on the other end, make sure that you take one wire from each (-) and switch them (or you'll see ringing problems), so it becomes:
blue solid and brown solid on Y, red solid and green solid on C
blue stripes and red stripes on Y(-), green stripes and brown stripes on C(-)

I hope I'm not out of line here, but my company
stocks all the components you guys are talking
about. Cat 5E, Cat 6, HD15 M&F, RJ45-DB15 adapters,
etc. etc. We also manufacture Cable Assemblies
and patch cords and deal mainly with computer networking
firms. We could make the cables for you at a very reasonable
price.

Email me if you guys need cables, parts, etc.

Again - hope this isn't out of line!

Aceman

Aceman@aceelectronics.com

Is cat-7 available yet? I can't find any retailers. It's supposed to be rated up to 600MHz I believe.

There are several manufacturers of equipment specificly for converting signals (such as video) for transmission over CAT5. While more expensive than simply splicing a VGA head onto ethernet cable, they will ensure that timing, etc. is maintained correctly. You can effectively, with no loss in quality, run the cable around your house a few times.

You won't get the satisfaction of using a soldering gun, though! ;-)

I've never used the balums that you described but Thumper has and he didn't have good success with them.

The other option is more expensive long cable run distribution electronics over cat 5. These are great for long runs over 50' to 500'+

I don't think Cat7 is neccessary. Video signals are know where near 600 MHz.

-Mr. Wigggles

I personally was skeptical but I just made may own cable with $10 worth of parts from Rat Shack and a 50ft segment of unshielded.

I do see an occasional ringing but it's not too bad.

Where does one look for shielded cable? Any known online retailers? I don't think it is available locally.

25' CAT5 STP is sold here for $2 ... http://stores.yahoo.com/lanadapters/

Other sources:

http://www.datacomlink.net/stp/
https://www.national-tech.com/catalog/cat5cables.htm
http://store.yahoo.com/1010net/100catshielp.html
http://cableclub.com/view_product.asp?item_no=20640


See my thread below for CAT5e STP stuff

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=117824

Gireesh.

I have a progresive scan DVD player with BNC output, so making a BNC to CAT5 conection is what I need, but I am a little lost here. How to connect the ground? Where to put the H/V connections? I read the whole thread above, but didn't really find a definitive answer.

Did anyone do that and get a better results as with plain VGA cable, I have 30ft run of VGA cable which is connected to a DVD player with 2ft VGA to BNC 'adapter'.

Any help appreciated :)

Just some comments:

If you are sending regular composite video or s-video,
it should work fine to use unsheilded cable (even for hundreds of feet).

For RGBHV, unshielded has a problem: There is one too few twisted pairs to send 5 signals properly. People using shielded cable are using the shield as the return for H and V, and using one of the twisted pairs as if it was two separate lines to send H and V (suboptimal, but it works).

If you try to use unshielded, or use shielded with the shield improperly connected, it might cause severe ghosting.
You can generally get rid of most of this if both the sending side and recieving side equipment has a grounded (three pin) power plug, and you have both plugged in to a common electrical circuit.

Another approach to using unshielded cable would be to run TWO
cat 5e cables, so that you can have a full twisted pair for H and V each (as well as the other signals RGB).

If you look at VGA specs, sync signals do share the same return. Therefore, using nine conductors, including the shield, you have RGB with thier returns on three twisted pairs and H and V have their own signal lines, but share the same return conductor. I have read somewhere that all the return signals are grounded on the cards, so in theory you could get away with just five conductors and a shield.

Gireesh.

RGB have each their own pair for ground and signal, but HV are on one twisted pair, is this good to have these two signals twisted together?
Anyone tried if it is better to put RH together keep V wiht R ground or something similar?

Of course it is bad having H and V twisted together....
Twisted pairs are meant for a balanced signal, and if the signals
on the different wires aren't mirror images, you get lots of crosstalk. So H gets a small ghost of V, and V gets a small ghost of H.

But because H and V are only sync signals, this doesn't matter a whole lot unless you try to have a really really long run.
As long as the signal from the crosstalk doesn't exceed sync level,
it shouldn't be visible in any way.



As far as getting away with fewer conductors by sharing the return for R,G and B, this would be a bad idea, exactly for this reason of crosstalk.

For a very very short run, straight through cable (rather than twisted pairs) work for this approach (very cheap VGA cables work this way). But for long runs, you will get crosstalk.

Mods delete posts, so I do.

i would like to try this on my Toshiba at home. But one thing's not very clear. A standard piece of cat5 cable only has 4 pairs of conductors, and would work for RGBS, but most video cards put out RGBHV, requiring a 5th pair of conductors.

Are you guys just connecting your systems up with RGBS, using the horizontal connection only, are you using more than 1 piece of wire to deliver RGBHV to the projector, or did you find a supplier of 5-pair cat-5 cable?

Originally posted by centaur
Right.

Ideally H & V would each be twisted with their own returns, but this is overkill. Common ground/shield is fine, twisted with these.

I will make this, and also will attach shield to only one end, to eliminate ground loop. Also will solder shield to connector shell, (hence the hood) for further shielding. (Less heat than it seems)

The point some make about the -'s & ground being commoned internal to the VGA card or display is true on many cards, but I'll connect private returns for the colors in anticipation of higher-quality cards.

Thanks Thumper & MrWigggles. I never would have dreamed the impedance of SCat5 would be close enough. What I think is happening here is the long runs you are using are reducing the effective impedance to the correct amount. Still though, I am surprised.

I'll let you know how it works with my Marantz VP12s1 on HD. Right now I have a 25' shielded VGA cable, and have one level of ringing (faint), only on black text with white bg.

The term ground loop is very poorly understood. Having two ground conductors doesn't make a ground loop. Ground loops cause problems when power ground current goes through signal lines.

The grounding mentioned in this design idea is all common. The R-, G-, B-, H-, V- etc. are all the same signal which is ground or GND. Length has nothing to do with lowering characteristic impedance, Z, of a cable. Having additional conductors, in this case the shield, in close proximity is what lowers the characteristic impedance.

Also, please bear in mind this Cat 5 technique is generally meant for cables that use HD-15 connectors on one or both ends. If you have a component output and a component input, I would recommend miniature bundled coax over what I have described here in a heart beat. Belden makes some good cable as well as others.

-Mr. Wigggles

There is both shielded and unshielded Cat-5e,
and both shielded and unshielded Cat-5.

Shielded Cat 5-e is a specially item, not likely to be carried
in a local store, but you can get it from Belden.

Oh, and as far as Cat 5e (or Cat 6) being a sham... They are not.

For balanced signals, the more twists per foot, the less loss to radiation and higher bandwidth.

Cat 5e can handle 350mhz balanced with no problem.

Cat 6 can handle 350 mhz balanced with so little signal
getting lost to radiation that it can meet FCC class "B",
just as good as a coax.

But in this application, you AREN"T sending balanced,
and aren't sending anything near that bandwidth.

Due to the unbalanced signal, I'm not sure if shielded CAT 5e
would work better or worse than shielded CAT 5. Probably
better, but it would require testing.

I didnt see if someone ran a test between a VGA 30 feet run, and a cat5 30 feet run.

Is the cat5 supposed to be better ?

Anyone tried it with a crt pj ?

Thx

Was your cat5 shielded ?

I am sorry that your experiments with Cat5e and Cat6 were disappointing. I was going to make some cables myself, specifically to easily switch between different sources.

Can you clarify a couple of things...

What resolution are you running ? 1080i or 540p from DTC100 ?

When using with the PC, what resolution were you using and what refresh rate ?

I understand your projector does native 1280x720.

Gireesh.

I am using General Cable's Command Linx Cat 5e cable from Home Depot, maybe 50ft of it, with Radio Shack connectors, but for 480i and 480p signal. In some cases I do see faint ghosting.

I guess in some cases such as SXGA resolution, that it's simply too much to ask of twisted pair not intended for this use, it might be better to get five coaxes and bundle them together or just buy a premade long cable.

Originally posted by Swampfox
Mr. Wiggles,
You may be an excellent engineer, but you are not a marketing executive. What the videophile community wants is a cable that "increases the realism and color saturation, rendering an image that exceeds the original source, causing the viewer to be immersed in a three dimensional pan-reality!"


@Swampfox

Do you know what your saying? An image can get as good as the weakest point of your equipment. By eliminating the weakest point will truly improve image quality. But then again you my have your weakest point somewhere else.

Fact is, a videophile as for audiophiles want to have their playback as close to the original as possible. You will achieve best image quality by calibrating your system using an Avia video calibration dvd.

If your source is bad, though luck.

There are methods to give you the impression that the image is better by screwing up calibrated systems. That is what all showrooms do for TV display's. But this is out of topic.

Speedy:

I hate to break this to you but I think Swampfox was making a harmless joke. As far as your comment that Swampfox may have his weakest point someplace else, I think you may have your weak point someplace else if you didn't get the joke.

@ QQQ and Swampfox

OK, I missed the joke and apologize for my mistake. Shame on me :( I read it again and got it right this time.

Everybody has some weak point :D

I just got some shielded cat5e and tore away the rubber insulation to see what I had to work with. Here are a few questions I have if anyone has the knowledge to help:

1. are you guys using wire strippers to tear away the insulation of each individual strand? My wire strippers only go to 20 gauge and this isn't small enough to strip away the insulation on these tiny cat5e cables. Are you guys using a different process where wire strippers are not needed? I tried using an exacto knife but the wire is solid core and the pressure I need to strip away the insulation causes the knife to go completely through the wire.

2. Thumper mentioned early on in this post that he has done quite a few of these and he says for a performance increase go ahead and tie all the grounds together as well as the shield and the ground wire. I assume this one ground would be designated on just one pin of the hd15 plug. Is the consensus that this is worth the effort? I would think it would actually be easier to go through only one solder connection rather than 4 but I haven't gotten my hd15 plug yet so I might be wrong. Any thoughts on this are greatly appreciated.

Speedy:

No problem.

Thanks

Originally posted by JP
...are you guys using wire strippers to tear away the insulation of each individual strand? I think I used my fingernails - I might have nicked it slightly to make it easier to strip.

I too would like to know the answer to that question. If the grounds are grouped together where are they soldered, to one particular pin or to the actual casing of the HD-15 connector.

Also should the metal foil be completely striped back or soldered to something?

Thanks
Lewis

I made a cable with shielded cat5e length 10 meters, and the result was not only very dissapointing but completely horrific. 7 or 8 ghost images at 800x600 resolutin and 60Hz refresh. Usless, I connected all grounds and shield wire and everything as described, but the result was as above.

It seems that the length was too long or cable type was wrong or this method just plain sucks for my application.

So 'your milage my vary' .... I junked it immediately afterwards and am now using my old vga cable, bought at computer store, real cheap, 10m long, with only one very slight almost invisibly light 'ghost' only seen with computer desktop not on any kind of video.

I am really suprised with some of the results posted.

I am still using the my shielded cat 5 cable as I type this message. Maybe I am lucky with the cable I bought at Fry's I really don't know what to say.

The benefits for this cable design are listed early on in the thread. The image quality that I have currently doesn't surpass the finest cables in the world but does equal it in my situation.

Anyway, it is a cheap alternative for the enthusiast out there who want to give it a shot.

But as just mentioned, aparantly your millage may vary.

-Mr. Wigggles

I'm puzzled by all this as well, and esp. all the deleted posts... don't know whats going on, but...

I found a local supply of cat5 back in October and made myself a cable per MrWiggles fine instructions. Since then I've enjoyed my LT150 via 35ft of DIY cable - no probs or regrets. This works as many have stated early on in the thread. My cable has 2 male db-15s on each end and connects my video card directly into the RGB input on the LT150.

I am quite sure I've found the answer, but am no longer contributing here due to Mods' propensity to stifle free speech.

I ordered some shielded Cat-5 a week ago. It arrived today but it was not shielded. They even put a sticker on the bag saying "shielded Cat-5e". They obviously think the "enhanced" stands for shielded.

I'm glad the cable is so cheap. I'll have to order some more, but I'm ordering from somewhere else now.

I hate it when this happends!!!!! Everything I buy has to malfunction in one way or another. I tend to expect a fault now with everything I buy.

I can mail it to you for free, have quite some of it left, in fact I have to 150meters or so. You will get you 10 or 15 meters of it a lot soner then in a week from me ;)

I've also had problems that were probably related to cable quality, too. I built mine from a 50 ft shielded cat5 from L-Com. I got 3 ghosts at 50 ft, jumpered all the grounds with no change, shortened the cable to 30 feet and still the same. I couldn't adjust out the ghosts with synch.

I've gotten a clean picture using a 5 conductor BNC that I converted to VGA. My guess is that the shielded CAT5 I used just wasn't quite up to the task.

Best bet, buy cable that has been reported as working for this application.

Regardless, tip of the hat to Mr. Wiggles and Thumper for bringing this good idea to us.

Mike

I just built a 100ft cable via this method with shielded cat5e.

Works great!

-L

Interesting... could you share with us what brand of cable you used and where you bought them ? 100ft. is one of the longest I have heard mentioned in this thread.

Gireesh.

I am currently going to be doing some more extensive testing to verify the lack of ghosting. This is the link to the cable I purchased:

http://www.stonewallcable.com//product.asp?pf%5Fid=SC%2D914S%2D5&dept%5Fid=181

Is there a "benchmark" type picture utility that I should be using to verify/pick up on the smallest amount of ghosting that may be present? That way I can give an accurate "yes/no" to the ghosting... and I'll even post pics.

-L

I am interested in the project for a long run from a hidden computer to the monitor about 25' away. I'm finishing the basement and not sure which wall the desk will end up on and thought this would be a cheaper solution and would look cleaner as far as the wall plate, etc.

1) My question is what is the maximum resolution that people have tried?
2) Has anyone tried to run it into a monitor?

I just finished making a cable with UTP CAT5. I wanted to see if I was able to manage the soldering. It wasn't the prettiest, but it worked. However, I did have some ghosting with text and a horizontal wave that I couldn't control. Resolution was 1280X1024 at 85hz

Is this something that could work?

Thanks for any help,

I tried it on my regular computer monitor before moving it to my projector on a variety of resolutions and refresh rates without any ghosting.

BTW, mine is around 30 feet long Cat 5 STP.

Thanks,

I just wanted to make sure before I purchased the correct Cat5.

Originally posted by lido
I am currently going to be doing some more extensive testing to verify the lack of ghosting. This is the link to the cable I purchased:

http://www.stonewallcable.com//product.asp?pf%5Fid=SC%2D914S%2D5&dept%5Fid=181

Is there a "benchmark" type picture utility that I should be using to verify/pick up on the smallest amount of ghosting that may be present? That way I can give an accurate "yes/no" to the ghosting... and I'll even post pics.

-L

Lido,

Any update on your tests? I just ordered from your source. My run will be about 30'.

Thanks,

John

My cable is 50' long and works fine with my HTPC but not with a Dish 6000. Any ideas?

Lido or John,

Any update? Does the Stonewall cable work well? I have some STP from www.iec-usa.com that ghosts horribly, even with ground wire attached and all grounds shorted.

Thanks.

Originally posted by DMerrill
Lido or John,

Any update? Does the Stonewall cable work well? I have some STP from www.iec-usa.com that ghosts horribly, even with ground wire attached and all grounds shorted.

Thanks.

Just got mine in. I'll try to work on it this weekend and I'll let you know.

John

Just bought the AE100 and tried to build myself a CAT5 VGA cable for my Radeon VE based HTPC. I bought 15 m (45 feet) shielded Cat5. male HD15 connectors and metal hoods. No problem soldering the wire to the HD15 connector according to whats said in the first post (pins 1,2,3,6,7,8,10,13,14) Cable works fine but theres ghosting, not severe, but it duplicates the image one or two times, mostly seen on the Windows desktop (using powerstrip to output pixelperfect image on the AE100)

What can I do to reduce the ghosting? Shorten the cable? Is the foil-shield of the cable supposed to be attached to something? Is the metal-hood supposed to be connected to something, if not, why use the metal-hood instead of the plastic one?

Please give me some advice here!

Mike,

You definitely want the cable to be as short as possible. I used the whole 50' length of the cable I bought at first, and had ghosting. When I cut it down to 38' the ghosting was gone. Of course it's possible that my soldering was better the second time, but I think it was the length. The foil shield should be making contact with the shield wire along the length of the cable, so by soldering the shield wire to pin 10, you effectively are also connecting the foil shield to pin 10 - no need to do anything else. The metal hood isn't necessary; a plastic one works fine. I think most people use metal just for the look and feel of it.

- Chris

Any place to pick the parts up cheap? I am looking to run about 20' through a wall and didn't find the hoods at rat shack.

You may want to try FastCat5e or Cat6 cable for better bandwidth. That might eliminate your ghosting.

WHEW!!!!

Well.. it took ALL NIGHT but I finally was able to get a 35 footer together... Very minor ringing/ghosting. I can't believe i spent the whole night doing it! it should be a half hour job at the most!

Anyways.. the biggest hint that helped? FLUX! that is the key. Oh, and also I got that 10 dollar doohickie form Rad shack that uses Roach clips to hold up the wires. An extra pair of hands in essence. I can imagine trying to do it without it!

I had a green image for most of the night, so I desoldered a couple of leads, took the flux to the wires, and then it seems to be fine now! Now on to putting together my HTPC!!!

FYI, I am using Plastic couplers, and the HOme Despot general cable cat5e

I made a cable about a week ago, it went pretty well....until I noticed horizontal banding that goes from the bottom of the image, to the top, slowly, over and over. My cable's going from my RCA DTC-100 to the PJ.
I heard this might be a grounding thing??? Or are my connections not soldered very well?

Thanks for the help,
BobbyT

I've read through most of this incredibly long thread, and there's still one thing I'm unclear about.

- Does it make any difference (other than convenience) to use solid core as opposed to stranded Cat5e cable?

If solid is better, does anybody know where I can get a 25 foot piece of solid core shielded cable? Stranded is pretty easy to find, but solid core shielded seems to be harder to come by.

Larry

bobbyt,

Do you get the same thing with a normal cable? Otherwise, I would say that you might a power cord running along side your video cable.

Isteere,

It shouldn't make much difference either way.

-Mr. Wigggles

Originally posted by MrWigggles
bobbyt,

Otherwise, I would say that you might a power cord running along side your video cable.

-Mr. Wigggles

That was exacly it. I had them running right alongside each other in a tube. I pulled out the power cord from the tube, and no more banding.

Thanks again!

Funny though, I get the same banding when watching Digital Cable thru S-Video, even with the power cord moved away...why would that be? THis may be the wrong thread for that, though...

bobbyt,

Cable is notorious for ground loops. You need an antenna ground isolator.

-Mr. Wigggles

bump

If this seems out of left field, it's actually a response to the new Cat5 for Video (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=142269) thread that started recently.

For those wondering what the actual difference is between cable types may be interested in this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=139763&perpage=20&pagenumber=1) where I was looking for a discussion about various cable types and how their construction actually affects the impedance.

Basically, people (including myself) tend to apply DC principles to what is actually an AC signal. Cables behave very differently when carrying an AC signal. Video (and other high-frequecy AC signals) are very sensitive to the characteristic impedance of the cable. If the impedance does not match that of the source, the signal will not be fully absorbed, and will reflect back through the cable.

Although Impedance and Resistance share the same units of measure (ohms) they are very different. Resistance is a static measure. Impedance is a measure of how a cable reacts with a signal. The thickness of conductors, the distance between them, the type of insulation, the number of twists, and even the connector all have a dramatic effect on the characteristic impedance of a cable. That's why video cable is generally coax. All the parameters are easy to control - no twists.

Anyway, not to try to overwrite anything that has already been said in this very interesting thread. Just thought the above comments might give some explanation to people (like me) who believe that different cable types actually make a difference, but could never really understand why.

Due to size and wealth of interesting information in this thread, could someone just summarize things and answer the following:
1. What is the best shielded Cat5 cable for the purpose of running 20-25 ft lengths.
2. How easy is it to terminate this cable with RCA connectors and whats the procedure.
3. Could a ferrite collar help improve the image by reducing interference.
Thanks
Lewis

Altinex just announced some products that transmit and receive computer video over CAT-5 cable.

http://www.altinex.com/News/Press%20Releases/pr060702_1.htm
http://www.altinex.com/Products/Special_Application/DA1920SX.htm
http://www.altinex.com/Products/Special_Application/DA1921SX.htm

Eric,

Altinex and Inline make great products for doing this especially if you want to go long distances. Inline did a demo for me last year where they can go 250 feet with NO video degradation and 1000 feet with only minor degradation.

It is interesting that 500 feet they had two demonstrations involving a 75 ohm coax configuration using a special line driver and a Cat-5 configuration. The Cat-5 was noticeably better.

This was the hot thing last year at Infocomm. This year there should be some more improvements I would think.

-Mr. Wigggles

I will admit I have not read the entire post, but someone early on asked about s-video. I have a run about 40' that I'm using STP for and it works great! I will qualify by saying I'm not an s-video connosseur (how do you spell that?) but it looks very good to me. I just used the orange and green for the 'center' pins, and the corresponding twisted whites for the shields. I trapped the drain wire (the bare wire that touches the shield) under the hoods of the cable.

I bet this works for alot of things. :))

Can anyone give me a link to get the hoods? I tried my local radio shacks with no luck.

Did anyone write a How TO?

Erik,
The Altinex links look great but at what price will the pair cost you?

Originally posted by flyerman
The Altinex links look great but at what price will the pair cost you?
The list price is $295 each, or $590 per pair.
ViscountVideo.com sells them for $269 each, or $538 per pair.

Here's a tip if you are getting severe ghosting....Connect the grounds!

Thumper suggested doing it for 'extra bang' on page 2, but it my case it made the difference between a crap cable and a very nice one.

The first cat5 cable I made worked great. My soldering was bad, so the connectors failed from heavy use (this was an extension cable, so it was very mobile). I decided to start completely over with new connectors, and that resulted in severe ghosting.

5 or so ghosts on an XGA signal kind of bad. Nothing I did would fix it either (and this was the exact same cable that was perfect before). I was starting to get stressed because I already committed myself to using this cable in my HT since I had such good results before.

Well, I decided to try jumpering the grounds to see if that did anything. I connected R-,G-,B- and Gnd together with an extra piece of the naked shield wire and put it all back together. I only did this on one end of the cable. The other end doesn't have the jumper wire.

The results were excellent! That jumper took the '5 ghosts on XGA' cable to a 'barely any ghosts on 1600x1200' cable. An XGA signal is now practically perfect.

Jumper the grounds to get rid of the ghosts!

Brian

halljb,

Jumper all the grounds on both ends for even better results. Relying on the video card or projector's internal circuit board for combining grounds is the most certain way to get poor results.

The new dirt cheap CAT5E VGA connector I've been working on with the AMP Corp. has all the grounds internally connected. Should be nationally available anyday as part of the "SL" connectivity series.

Thumper

Thanks for the tip! I'll jumper the other connector soon.

That connector you're working on...is it HD15 on one end and female RJ45 on the other so you can take a stock sheilded cat5 cable and just plug it in?

That would be sweet.

Brian

If form factor is not an issue on really long runs, for $28.00 would this be a better solution over the Cat5e due to the 75 Ohm concern: http://www.cablewholesale.com/catalog/supervgacables.htm
item number 10H1-20150.

This is a 50' SVGA cable with HD15 male to male ends using coax (which is designed to nail the 75 ohms perfectly). They have a 25' for only $14.00.

I realize you will miss out on the fun & excitement of soldering your own connections...but you could always buy the cable, cut off the ends, and solder them back on again if you really feel the need. I just want to get this thing setup (after researching this site for over two years and finally dropping the hammer on the 5500) and start watching stuff.

Any thoughts? Did I missing anything - It did take over an hour to read through this monster thread from beginning to end - I'm sure I could have forgotten something in there...

Janusinc,

Longer runs was not the only reason the Cat5 was proposed. It is easier to feed through walls, etc., without the HD15 connectors attached. The RJ45 connectors can be easily plugged and unplugged to switch between different displays, etc.

Randy D

Randy,

I understood the switching ease and the form factor issue - getting this stuff through walls, but has it been established that Cat5e will perform better over longer runs (~35 - 50 feet) as compared to coax cabling. Coax was designed for the 75 ohms and very long runs (as I understand it).

However, I have seen a lot of installs with long runs of coax (usually Cable Service) where there is a lot of ghosting. Is this due to long runs or other issues?

Tried to build this cable without success.

Not due to the theory, but I found I lack much in soldering ability. What a mess one can make of a HD15 connector!

I need the small form factor to pass a cable up one level.


Leaves some options, and a couple of questions...


1) Order 30' of shielded cable with RJ45 connectors attached, and the new Amp converter. Any word on the availability of the converter?

2) Build a RJ45 to HD15 converter by modifying a RJ45 to HD9, it was mentioned in thread, did anyone try it?

3) Try HD15 crimp connectors. Can anyone comment on the crimp type of connector. It appears you crimp the pins on the wire then insert into the head. Its mentioned that special tools are needed, any links or instructions?

4) Learn to solder, any links to a solder 101 page!

Why are you doing that? Black Box (amoung others) have been sending video down cat5 for awhile now;
http://catalog.blackbox.com/Blackbox/images/standard/bac154gpcs.gif Here is a little info on it;
* Verify your order-consult with a live Tech now!
* Sends both stereo audio and video to two or eight remote speakers and monitors.
* Operates over CAT5 cable.
* Supports VGA video up to 1280 x 1024 at 60 to 85 Hz.
* Sends signals up to 500 feet.
* No software required.
* Compact size.
* Can be cascaded to support even more speakers and monitors.
* Differential signaling provides protection from EMI/RFI interference

I am going to have to do a summary at some point...

David,

Many people have done this with NO boxes at all. At 1280*1024, I can easilly go 40 feet.

Soldering ability and differences in cable types seems to be the biggest problem here. Solder cup terminals are designed to be easy but only if decent soldering practices are utilized. Different cable types could be the other problem.

YMMV.

-Mr. Wigggles

Another way to do this without soldering is to use a custom Rj45 to HD15 adapter. Black box as well as most all cable manufacturers can make custom adapters for you (I use them all the time, beats soldering in a pinch). Check them out at www.blackbox.com and get the Cable & Connectivity Catalog and check out the Custom Adapters section.

Of course another alternative is to go to technical school and learn how to solder?? :)