As the new N series with dnle are arriving it seems some of the old M series settings are not working so well or have changed.

My only real change has been to change the gamma in the service menu from 4 to 5. this has made the black levels more realistic and also has made the colors more vibrant.

Please post your settings both with regular menu and also with changes you have made to your service menu and we can begin to really tune these new sets.

Thanks!

I haven't done anything to my HLM (new internals) but changed the gamma from default 5 to 1.

Don't really want to mess with anything else just yet until the board has a little more information!!

Blooz

Hey guys,

Can you include what rev of firmware you are both using (and anyone else that posts) as well as the manufacture date for your sets? Perhaps that will give us a better apples to apples view of things. Amazes me that in just 2 posts we already have two different gamma settings and those are the only two parameters either of you have changed.

Thanks,
Jeff (future HLM617 owner in 2 weeks)

Jeff - Good luck to you with you future 617w:)

I've had mine since early Feb and love it - let us know how it goes and what you think of it.

I am not too happy with regular DirecTV picture quality but I believe this is not the Sammy but DTV.

Geoffrey

my build date on the back of the set is feb 2003. i will get the firmware number once i dive back into the service menu tonight. it is strange to me that others like the gamma setting of 0-1, when i try that setting everything is very washed out. 4 was default and 5 looks about perfect.

ill post more later.....

I too was thinking about the Samsung HLN617W, I hear it's not out yet, and have DirecTV feed. I heard it was supposed to handle SD feeds better than the GWII. Anyone with info on it?

Originally posted by GeneticDrift
my build date on the back of the set is feb 2003. i will get the firmware number once i dive back into the service menu tonight. it is strange to me that others like the gamma setting of 0-1, when i try that setting everything is very washed out. 4 was default and 5 looks about perfect.

ill post more later.....

wow, you are the first one i have seen have the TV built in 2003. I just bought one from end of Feb, and finally the 507 was shipped from samsung directly last weekend, and it was still built in Dec 2002 (maybe a refurb??), and yours is Feb 2003... where did you buy it?? and when did you get it?? Also, could some one tell me how can i get out of service menu?? is powering off the TV the only way?? thamks all!

My firmware version is 204, the manufacture date on the back of the television is December 2002. Also, Bobo, there is no other way to get into the service menu unless you power off!


Blooz

Blooz,
Haven't seen you post for a while. How are you enjoying the set?
Any movie blow you away since it arrived?

Mark

Originally posted by blooz4u
My firmware version is 204, the manufacture date on the back of the television is December 2002. Also, Bobo, there is no other way to get into the service menu unless you power off!


Blooz

Blooz,

Ya, i know we need to power off fisrt then press mute 1 8 2 power to get into the service menu, how about when I am done with it? I couldn't find any other way to GET OUT of the service menu unless i power off the TV...
Thanks!

Bobo

I have a new HLN with build date of February 2003. I am trying to get used to all the HD quirks. I have a Comcast DCT5100 box and certain things are happening which are a mystery to me. For example, I just got through watching West Wing on the NBC HD feed and it was way too dark. I had to crank up the brightness to 100% to see anything. Also, the picture was a tiny letterbox format in the middle of the picutre tube. What's up with that? So far, the only true high definition shows seem to be only ABC. The Oscars were awesome. The PBS HD loop is also awesome, but only to show the set off to friends. The content is zilch.

Any recommendations to adjust the brightness level on HD broadcast would be appreciated.

Correct.

Originally posted by bobotan
I couldn't find any other way to GET OUT of the service menu unless i power off the TV...

Originally posted by eafenyes
I have a new HLN with build date of February 2003

How interesting. I have a HLM617W with a build date of Feb. 03, Firmware v204.

Dean

Originally posted by gels
Jeff - Good luck to you with you future 617w:)

I've had mine since early Feb and love it - let us know how it goes and what you think of it.

I am not too happy with regular DirecTV picture quality but I believe this is not the Sammy but DTV.

Geoffrey

Thanks, Geoffrey. I will be sure to post here once I get my new set. I'll be sure to include the build date and software revision. I am getting the tv from the distributor in NY that worked out the deal with my company. They are supposed to call me once the TV gets into Houston and arrange delivery with me from there. I HOPE to slip they a couple bucks or something and get them to lug the sucker upstairs to the theater for me. Granted, it's only 115 lbs or whatever, but I would rather THEY try to get it up the stairs and through the doorway than me and my bro or neighbor.

DirecTV will be one of the MAIN things I watch on this set... especially with the NHL playoffs beginning in about a week. Sure would be nice if ABC would show some of this in HD, but oh well. Too bad ESPN-HD isn't on DirecTV yet... now THAT would be something else to see!!!

Later,
Jeff

Hey Mark!!

I am VERY pleased with the set thus far. I'm not so impress with the amount of compression Dish Network uses...it makes for a bad picture on some channels...not so bad on others. I just bought my Samsung Progressive DVD player on closeout last week (model P-401) and really enjoyed "Shrek". Animation looks amazing on this set. Even movies made to look grainy ( 8 mile, Minority Report...etc) look great. The only tweaking I've done is with Avia and lowered the gamma in the SM. That will probably be all I do, unless I hire an ISF guy in the future. That is on the bottom of the list now... I've got a receiver and center channel to buy first! :)

Hope all is well!!

Blooz

blooz4u:

what set do you have? the hln5065?


i dont understand why people keep posting about lowering the gamma. mine was at 4 and i raised it to 5. i (and my neighbors) think it looks awesome. when i went down on gamma i lost the vibrancy on colors and my blacks were washed out.

just seems weird.............................

Can we have some tweaks please!!! There must be somebody out there with access to an "N" series who can recommend some adjustments.

Thanks

im in agreement with blooz4u

i am very happy with nothing more than a gamma tweak.

GeneticDrift,

I've actually got an HL"M" 507W, but it has the same internals as the new HL"N" models. (DNIe, firware version 204, 2300 chip...etc)

I'm waiting until more folks on the forum get either a new set, or get the new internals that Samsung is working on offering before I attemp to make any dramatic changes in the SM.

Other than SD quality, no problems here. (Still waiting on the 921 HD/PVR)

Blooz

Gamma 0 and BKAKOU/BLIM/BSTPO all 0 gives the best blacks and grayscale on my HLM437W. Gamma 5 crushes both blacks and whites. I've heard the HLN sets have more Gamma tables, which may not map to the ones in the HLM sets. YMMV.

Originally posted by eafenyes
I just got through watching West Wing on the NBC HD feed and it was way too dark. I had to crank up the brightness to 100% to see anything. You're adjusting the wrong thing. The Brightness control on a TV controls BLACK levels. WHITE levels are changed by adjusting the Contrast control. I watch HDTV with Contrast at 90-100 and Brightness at 50-60, depending on the ambient light level. Strongly suggest you get a copy of Avia. It will help you dial in PQ much more quickly and accurately.

Also, the picture was a tiny letterbox format in the middle of the picutre tube. What's up with that? Different aspect control settings will be needed depending on your STB and the type of connection you're using. In any case, you'll have to adust the aspect control on BOTH the TV and the STB. In my setup (HLM437W with Sammy SIR-T165 via DVI cable), the TV is on TV(Wide) and the STB is on Full for HDTV. Fills my little screen :)

"fillls my little screen"


Laugher of the day!

Thanks Doug!

Blooz

ok i have set my gamma to 1 and i agree it is brighter and colors still look good at 50%.

i have watched it this way for about 4 hrs now and agree 5 gamma does make colors vibrant but tends to make the pic very dark.

my info on the bottom of SM screen is this:
204 - dec 2002


i cannot find the settings refered to (blim-bkakou-bstpo)
are they only under the component sub menu?

i have been tuning with a digital cable feed as this is most of what i watch.

Originally posted by GeneticDrift

my info on the bottom of SM screen is this:
204 - dec 2002

i cannot find the settings refered to (blim-bkakou-bstpo)
are they only under the component sub menu?


From what I've read you may not have those settings. Seems like they may not be in the "new" internals. Have you established which configuration (original/new) HLM you have?

Originally posted by htwaits
From what I've read you may not have those settings.


mine is an HLN

yes i dont find them anywhere..............................

bump**

Does anyone know if the HLM's with firmware v204 have discrete codes?

Ok, I got my TV this past Friday. Here's what I know so far. I will also post this info in the thread I started on the HLN617W.

I have model HLN617W.
It is a TANTUS model.
It has the 1 and 3/4 inch charcoal bezel around the screen.
Build date is February 2003
Firmware is T-B3K6101-204 released Nov. 30, 2002 at 09:04:42

Minor tweaks:
1.) Changed Gamma setting in the service menu under "DDP1010" from 4 (default) to 5. Blacks were significantly affected.

2.) Calibrated with Video Essentials to set Contrast, Brightness, Color and Tint and Sharpness.

Values before and after calibration with Gamma set to 5:

Contrast = 90 out of box, 90 after calibration
Brightness = 50 out of box, 49 after calibration
Sharpness = 20 out of box, 0 after calibration
Color = 50 out of box, 85 after calibration
Tint = 50/50 out of box, 50/50 after calibration

Setting color with the blue filter on this tv is a BEOTCH!!! It's not cut and dry like it was on my direct view hd set. I'm still not convinced it's right, but I just gave up. Setting the Tint was a little less strenuous.

I'll post my observations on the Service menu later.

Regs,
Jeff

Originally posted by davige
Does anyone know if the HLM's with firmware v204 have discrete codes?

The first sets to have the discrete codes will be the new Tantus models. The HLN467 and the HLN567. Later versions of the other models will get the newer firmware that has the discrete code recognition but current HLNs (XX65 and XX7s) don't have the discrete code firmware.

It should be possible to upgrade the firmware of the existing models but we have no firm promise this will be done. Representatives of Samsung have told people that an upgrade will be available but no firm announcement has been made.

Just to reaffirm... the remote for my new HLN617 does NOT have individual input buttons to select sources, therefor my guess is that it does not have dicsrete codes. Hopefully Samsung will provide a firmware update for all of us that are "early adopters" of their sets.

Later,
Jeff

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Iceblade


Setting color with the blue filter on this tv is a BEOTCH!!! It's not cut and dry like it was on my direct view hd set. I'm still not convinced it's right, but I just gave up. Setting the Tint was a little less strenuous.

Iceblade,

I was a Video Essentials lover until I discovered Avia. It's much easier to set color and tint with the pulsating color bars pattern. Also check the Color Decoder setting with the red filter after you do color and tint to make certain that your reds are not oversaturating, a typical Sammy issue. My new 507 (Firmware v204) looks awesome after Avia (it wasn't that great after VE). My only issue now is the occassional 'banding' effect. I haven't messed with any of the SM tweaks yet. Happy viewing.

Well neither one of them are designed for digital displays, so neither is an ideal solution. There is a digital version of one or the other either out now or soon though.

Yeah... they've been saying that about the digital version of Avia or VE forever. I'll believe it when I get my grubby little hands on it myself. That being said, it's the best we can do to use the standard version and go from there. I tried to find Avia at my local BB, CC and a few other retailers, but no go. Maybe I need to run to a specialty store to find it. I know I bought my copy of VE at BB about 2 years ago.

Thanks,
Jeff

I switched GAMMA to 0 (was on 4) on the HLN5065 at Best Buy yesterday and I like it the best. Everything seems more detailed. You all like 5 better?

Originally posted by u18a12
I switched GAMMA to 0 (was on 4) on the HLN5065 at Best Buy yesterday and I like it the best. Everything seems more detailed. You all like 5 better?

Honestly it was a toss up between 0 and 5. They are so far apart when toggling between 0 and 5 that I "forget" what each looks like when I go to the other one. I stuck with 5 because it seems that everyone else is going with 5. Hopefully more people can get this set and we can start to compare more notes.

I hope to have an updated spreadsheet of the default values for my HLN617 tonight.

Later,
Jeff

They are so far apart when toggling between 0 and 5 that I "forget"
I agree! My wife was asking "Isn't there a faster way to get from 0 to 5??" Pretty funny!

Originally posted by u18a12
I agree! My wife was asking "Isn't there a faster way to get from 0 to 5??" Pretty funny!

Yeah, I was hoping that the controls would "loop around" so I could go 0-5-0-5 and keep toggling. No such luck though. :(

Later,
Jeff

Hello Iceblade.

I am interested in exactly the model Samsung that you have. Did you compare it to the Panasonic 52" DLP? Is there any chance that you can make an objective comparison of the Panny DLP picture, and that from your 61" Samsung Tantus model *after* you applied your tweaks?

I realize this is practically impossible to answer, but I'm giving it a shot anyway. :)

=Thanks

Originally posted by Hedgehog_SBM
Hello Iceblade.

I am interested in exactly the model Samsung that you have. Did you compare it to the Panasonic 52" DLP? Is there any chance that you can make an objective comparison of the Panny DLP picture, and that from your 61" Samsung Tantus model *after* you applied your tweaks?

I realize this is practically impossible to answer, but I'm giving it a shot anyway. :)

=Thanks

Hedgehog,

To be completely honest I didn't compare it to ANYTHING else. I saw it a few times. Got a great deal on the price. Bought it. End of story. I'll try to keep everyone updated with any tweaks, but for right now I'm not really doing anything other than watching hockey playoffs.

Later,
Jeff

Thanks for the reply, and enjoy the playoffs. :)

finally got the nerve to try the tweak - at least the gamma one on my new HLN617. was set to 4, i set it to 0 and I see huge improvement. comparable to the panny PQ. much more detail, depth, and just plain looks better at least to me.

i had the panny for 3 months. now i'm even more happy with the sammy. i think i'll keep it.

Originally posted by dsmith6281
finally got the nerve to try the tweak - at least the gamma one on my new HLN617. was set to 4, i set it to 0 and I see huge improvement. comparable to the panny PQ. much more detail, depth, and just plain looks better at least to me.

i had the panny for 3 months. now i'm even more happy with the sammy. i think i'll keep it.

So you like "0" better than "5" then?

Looks like we may need to get a poll going once more people get this set.

Later,
Jeff

Hmm..strange. I cycled through the gamma values & my gf & i both decided it was a toss up between 2 & 4. Finally set it to 2. 3 was the worst(glare), 0/5 seemed to have a dark hue.
I guess it would also depend on the ambient light in the room and source. I was using analog cable(not a good source IMHO).

-Nivas

Well, not exactly, all we really need is somebody to run ColorFacts on this version of the set, or fork out the dollars for an ISF calibration and share the results.

Ken H was renting out his ColorFacts, if I can ever determine that I'm really on the last version of this sets firmware that I'll have for a while, I'd consider going that route.

All that being said, I don't think we're serving much purpose here talking about each others subjective tweaks. This version is good enough out of the box I'd prefer to discuss things on a more objective level.

Originally posted by Iceblade
That being said, it's the best we can do to use the standard version and go from there.

Originally posted by turls
Well, not exactly, all we really need is somebody to run ColorFacts on this version of the set, or fork out the dollars for an ISF calibration and share the results.

Ken H was renting out his ColorFacts, if I can ever determine that I'm really on the last version of this sets firmware that I'll have for a while, I'd consider going that route.

All that being said, I don't think we're serving much purpose here talking about each others subjective tweaks. This version is good enough out of the box I'd prefer to discuss things on a more objective level.

Yeah, I won't argue with you on the whole ColorFacts thing. Sure it's subjective, but from what I have read on it it is hardly intuitive and VERY time intensive. Couple that with actually getting the equipment in your house in the first place... and well... my guess is it's going to be awhile before any of this happens since so few of us have the set and access to the test equipment.

'til then, I'll just keep flubbing away in the dark with an SM tweak here an there.

Thanks,
Jeff

My 5065W was just delivered.

Manufactured January 2003.

Service Menu
T-B3K5001-204
Release Dec 10, 2002


I am trying all kinds of combinations of brightness, contrast, etc but so far the 1-99 Comcast channels are not as good as I would like. The digital channels are a little better. VCR is decent. Thursday I get HD. DVD is very good.

I have changed to Gamma 1, no other SM tweaks. My choices kept going after Gamma 5 but I didn't see any differences up through 11 - I think it goes higher, when my wife said take it back to 0 or 1 (she thought the higher ones were too dark).

Like others, I have 30 days to get this worked out.

I have brand new HLN617W, and as I said in another current thread, the PQ is merely OK, and at this price point not good enough. Hopefully I can improve it with the Service Menu.

My dealer told me that if I get into the SM, the warantee is void. Is this really true? Can they tell if I have been in there or not? I don't see how there is a chance I'll want to keep it if I can't tweek it!

BTW, if I decide to keep it, I'll want it ISF calibrated. I'd like to get someone who knows about dlps, but is that possible given their immaturity. Hate to pay the $$$ for a newbie to learn how.

Cheers,
Chris

i must say mine keeps amazing me more each day..............i watched driven on starz tonight and it was a total dvd quality picture.

Originally posted by cwzell
My dealer told me that if I get into the SM, the warantee is void. Is this really true? Can they tell if I have been in there or not? I don't see how there is a chance I'll want to keep it if I can't tweek it!

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Let me guess--this guy also likes to sell stuff at MSRP.

Does this guy even know what an ISF calibration is?

Originally posted by GeneticDrift
i must say mine keeps amazing me more each day..............i watched driven on starz tonight and it was a total dvd quality picture.

Well then don't dare watch it in actual HD on HBO or you might go blind . . .

With regards to the ColorFacts. If one person gets the system and then does calibrate their Samsung DLP monitor, sharing the values would be almost worthless. This is due to the differences that exist with the light-bulbs in each DLP-based monitor.

I asked Jim Burns over the weekend the exact same question. I had the good fortune to attend a Calibration Seminar designed specifically for Fixed-Pixel Display devices, including DLP, LCD, Plasma, and others.

Jim Burns told me that if I calibrated my monitor, and shared all of the values with others via the AVS-Forum or whatever, that they would be 'in the same neighborhood', but NOT close enough for others to copy into their Service Menu.

So, bottom line, you gotta get your monitor calibrated independently of your neighbors.

It only costs a couple hundred bucks, and you have already spent a couple thousand...Not a difficult choice.

Originally posted by Segaboy
With regards to the ColorFacts. If one person gets the system and then does calibrate their Samsung DLP monitor, sharing the values would be almost worthless. This is due to the differences that exist with the light-bulbs in each DLP-based monitor.

I asked Jim Burns over the weekend the exact same question. I had the good fortune to attend a Calibration Seminar designed specifically for Fixed-Pixel Display devices, including DLP, LCD, Plasma, and others.

Jim Burns told me that if I calibrated my monitor, and shared all of the values with others via the AVS-Forum or whatever, that they would be 'in the same neighborhood', but NOT close enough for others to copy into their Service Menu.

So, bottom line, you gotta get your monitor calibrated independently of your neighbors.

It only costs a couple hundred bucks, and you have already spent a couple thousand...Not a difficult choice.

Interesting... but I find it very hard to believe given the results that most people have had in tweaking their service menu according to what other people posted regarding ColorFacts. Most people are not expecting EXACT ISF calibration when it comes to tweaking the SM... they are just looking for the best possible picture out of their set WITHOUT shelling out $350+ for an ISF job on one or two inputs of their tv. Add more and more money for each input you want calibrated and for each TYPE of signal you want it calibrated for... 480i, 480p, 1080i, etc...

Personally I couldn't agree with you more with your "not a difficult choice" comment. The choice to say "you know... it just isn't worth it once you have already spent your last dime to get a tv and STB" is quite easy to make. Perhaps you have the cash on hand to have your tv ISF'ed. Most people don't.

For the rest of us, starting our own tinkering with the SM from a point where many other people have had good results after using ColorFacts is a GREAT place to start from. That's what most of us are looking for with this thread.

Thanks for the comments... interesting topic for a different thread.

Later,
Jeff

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Segaboy
________________________________________________
[B]With regards to the ColorFacts. If one person gets the system and then does calibrate their Samsung DLP monitor, sharing the values would be almost worthless. This is due to the differences that exist with the light-bulbs in each DLP-based monitor.
________________________________________________

The 100Watts bulbs are identical in manufacturing and differ only in intensity and color temperature as they age. The fact that all tweaks were done when the sets are new will almost eliminate the minimal difference. The tweaks on the 617 may be different from the others because of the use of a 120Watts bulb. I am also skeptical of any statements from professionals that are self serving.:cool:


I have a special garden hose that looks the same as yours but water flows through it much better than yours bec. of superior design and construction.Its call monster hose and costs $100 per foot! ;)

Before we get into a slam-o-ramma here, lets look at the complete picture. When we are talking about copying parameters from one digital device to another, you will make the second projector look like the first. Is it a complete calibration? No, because you are only looking at a part of it the display itself. Do not forget the sources and screens are different from system to system. The differences in DVD players can be staggering, the color matrixes are never the same from model to model and the signal output level varies from unit to unit. This will affect all of your picture quality controls. Then the screen is also a major factor in set up. Different screens have different characteristics in color space and setting black level. The room and size of the screen also affect black level. (I know we are talking about an RP here, that was a blanket statement) After copying the parameters from one projector to another you will need to touch up brightness, contrast, color, tint and color temperature. Copying the numbers may be a good way to start, if you trust the source, but is only a place to start more tweaking needs to be done to obtain the best picture.


BTW there are differences from lamps to lamp and also during its life cycle. How much? This varies. I am currently comparing and tracking this now. I will have data at a later date.

Originally posted by Segaboy
With regards to the ColorFacts. If one person gets the system and then does calibrate their Samsung DLP monitor, sharing the values would be almost worthless.

I guess this is what you'd expect someone who gets paid to calibrate TVs to say. If they suggested we could all get the perfect ISF picture by simply copying the SM values from one set to another they would put themselves out of business.

I suspect the real answer lies somewhere in between for these digital LCD/DLP sets. Copying the SM values is probably not worthless, but it may not get you the best possible picture for your set up.

So the real question is: "Will copying the values into my SM get me a better picture that the default values that come with the set?" It's a pity that there isn't two memories for the SM settings so you could keep the original values and enter a new set to compare against.

Better still it would be nice if Sammy would have two settings available from the factory:

1) Ideal values so this TV looks the best one in a brightly lit store

2) ISF calibrated values - not for this actual TV, but the values for this model and revision of firmware.

You could then see which you like the best at home.

Ditto. I think it would be a significant improvement over defaults. They are at least a better starting point for AVIA or whatever than the defaults.

In my case I've been through 3 completely different sets because of defects and because I'm out of Samsung service area. I also don't think all the ISF calibrators are up to speed on DLP yet and even if they are I'm footing a travel bill on top of calibration. And on top of that look how many inputs the Sammy has. I'm using almost all of them. And finally, if the bulbs are so different, what about when mine ages, or heaven forbid, I end up replacing it (which also seems to be all too common in Samsung DLP sets).

ISF needs to rethink how they charge for calibrating numerous sources. It isn't my fault the stupid industry makes me have about 3-4 different boxes for to get all the HD content. And that doesn't even count DVD, etc.

Originally posted by mikepalm
I suspect the real answer lies somewhere in between for these digital LCD/DLP sets. Copying the SM values is probably not worthless, but it may not get you the best possible picture for your set up.

So the real question is: "Will copying the values into my SM get me a better picture that the default values that come with the set?"

Couldn't agree with you more, Matt.

On a semi-related note. Does anyone actually know from a "quantitative" standpoint which one of the Color settings comes closest to actual grey scale, Warm1, Warm2, Cool1, Cool2, etc? I think I read in the HLM SM Tweak thread that it was Warm1. Any thoughts? I'll post this in the other HLN tweaks threads as well, just to see if other people have thoughts.


FWIW, I am currently using Gamma 0 with Warm1 color tone setting. I'll be recalibrating with Video Essentials into Comp1 and S-Video1 later today. I'll post my results.

Later,
Jeff

Have monkeyed with the GAMMA settings in the SM. Ended up at GAMMA 4 and all other SM settings the default. Use Dynamic Mode with Warm 2.

Do not have VE or Avia, and have not messed with anything else in the SM.

Pretty sweet picture - Check out Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within - very cool - even on HBO.

Originally posted by urfthewog
Have monkeyed with the GAMMA settings in the SM. Ended up at GAMMA 4 and all other SM settings the default. Use Dynamic Mode with Warm 2.

Do not have VE or Avia, and have not messed with anything else in the SM.

Pretty sweet picture - Check out Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within - very cool - even on HBO.

Yep... watched that yesterday on DVD. Man, does it look grainy for some reason. I'm still using Gamma 0, Warm1 with Custom Brightness, Contrast, Tint, Color and Sharpness.

I'm just wondering if maybe it's the fact that my DVD player is so old that might be the problem. I think I puchased it in October of 1999 or thereabouts. It certainly wasn't a "cheap" one at the time... around $400 I think.

In OTHER news...
I finally got the DirecTV activated with the TS-160 activated. I flipped on HDNET and it looked merely "ok". The colors using the DVI connection seem WAY off. I mean sunburned faces... overly saturated EVERYTHING. I turned color down to like 35 or so and that seemed to help. I need to post and see what everyone else is using with this box. One thing I did notice BIGTIME was rainbows and clayfaces during last night's episode of "Law and Order: Special Victims Unit". Man, we need some ColorFacts stuff already.

Later,
Jeff

I finally got the DirecTV activated with the TS-160 activated. I flipped on HDNET and it looked merely "ok". The colors using the DVI connection seem WAY off. I mean sunburned faces... overly saturated EVERYTHING. I turned color down to like 35 or so and that seemed to help.
Jeff,
I haven't seen anyone else mention oversaturation and a need to reduce the color setting, so I thought I was the only one that had this problem. I am feeding an Elite DV-47ai as well as a Dish 6000 through my Elite 49TXi receiver and then into the HLM617's 'component 3' input. I found that everything looked oversaturated, and that setting color down to about 35 helped a lot. While I often use the 'standard' or 'movie' settings during the day when light is streaming into the room, at night I use the following 'custom' settings:
Contrast: 80
Brightness: 40
Sharpness: 65
Color: 40
Tint: 30/70
Temp: Normal

I have not yet used Avia or VE; these are 'eyeball' settings only but do represent a lot of hours and fine-tuning to get them where I think they looked best. No changes (yet) to SM settings; am still waiting for someone to do a Colorfacts calibration to see how close they are OOTB. But lowering the color made a HUGE difference in PQ for me.

Rob

Originally posted by davige
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Iceblade


Setting color with the blue filter on this tv is a BEOTCH!!! It's not cut and dry like it was on my direct view hd set. I'm still not convinced it's right, but I just gave up. Setting the Tint was a little less strenuous.

Iceblade,

I was a Video Essentials lover until I discovered Avia. It's much easier to set color and tint with the pulsating color bars pattern. Also check the Color Decoder setting with the red filter after you do color and tint to make certain that your reds are not oversaturating, a typical Sammy issue. My new 507 (Firmware v204) looks awesome after Avia (it wasn't that great after VE). My only issue now is the occassional 'banding' effect. I haven't messed with any of the SM tweaks yet. Happy viewing.

davige,
I plan on just biting the bullet and ordering the Avia disc even though it isn't optimized for digital tv's yet. Hope to have it sometime next week. Which Color Tone and Gamma setting did you end up going with for Avia calibration? Also, which inputs did you calibrate?

Thanks,
Jeff

Originally posted by rvonder
Jeff,
Contrast: 80
Brightness: 40
Sharpness: 65
Color: 40
Tint: 30/70
Temp: Normal

I have not yet used Avia or VE; these are 'eyeball' settings only but do represent a lot of hours and fine-tuning to get them where I think they looked best. No changes (yet) to SM settings; am still waiting for someone to do a Colorfacts calibration to see how close they are OOTB. But lowering the color made a HUGE difference in PQ for me.

Rob

Cool, Rob... at least you somewhat validated the fact that I didn't just drop too much acid or something. :)

I'm lucky enough to have a dedicated room that is always dark, so I mainly stick to my "custom" settings as opposed to "movie" or "dynamic" or whatever. Which gamma and color tone settings are you using?

Later,
Jeff

Iceblade,

I set up my 507 (new internals; DCDi, DNIe, etc., firmware 204) on Component 1 only with 480i from my old Pioneer DVD (I'm waiting for the new DVI Samsung this summer). I ended up on Custom, Warm 1, Gamma 4, everything else OFF. I tried 5 but it seemed too dark. I'm tempted to try 0 but I haven't gotten around to it yet. Remember to check the Color Decoder pattern with the red filter. That helped red over-saturation tremendously and gave me excellent flesh tones. My big complaint right now is banding. It really annoys me sometime depending on program material but I haven't messed with the SM very much to try to correct it. I might try playing with the Color Wheel delay setting as someone mentioned earlier in this forum. Any ideas? Have fun with Avia. I don't want to tell you my final values. I'm interested to see what you come up with then we can compare.

davige

Originally posted by davige
Iceblade,

I set up my 507 (new internals; DCDi, DNIe, etc., firmware 204) on Component 1 only with 480i from my old Pioneer DVD (I'm waiting for the new DVI Samsung this summer). I ended up on Custom, Warm 1, Gamma 4, everything else OFF. I tried 5 but it seemed too dark. I'm tempted to try 0 but I haven't gotten around to it yet. Remember to check the Color Decoder pattern with the red filter. That helped red over-saturation tremendously and gave me excellent flesh tones. My big complaint right now is banding. It really annoys me sometime depending on program material but I haven't messed with the SM very much to try to correct it. I might try playing with the Color Wheel delay setting as someone mentioned earlier in this forum. Any ideas? Have fun with Avia. I don't want to tell you my final values. I'm interested to see what you come up with then we can compare.

davige

Fair enough. Hopefully I will have Avia within a week or so. It is practically impossible to find around here in any store, so the internet is the only way for me to snag it.

Thanks,
Jeff

Has anyone found out exactly what AUTOCOLOR does? I perfomed it by accident on my new HLN617 - before I read any of the warnings on this site - on the progressive scan input, and it totally fixed the problem I was having. Specifically, whenever I ran my DVD player in progressive scan mode (component inputs), it had a strong green tint, which could not be fixed with the user settings. After running autocolor, it totally went away and the colors are now very natural. Can anyone confirm that I didn't inadvertantly mess anything else up - I'm a bit worried after reading the warnings on this site, but everything looks okay to me.

If someone knows what autocolor does, it would help. I had a dvd playing at the time, but did not use a color pattern. Thanks,

Are we talking about the same TV? Where is "autocolor" in the menus? Is this a service menu item only, it sure isn't in any regular menus I've seen.

Originally posted by turls
Are we talking about the same TV? Where is "autocolor" in the menus? Is this a service menu item only, it sure isn't in any regular menus I've seen.

Matt,

Yep, it's in the service menu. It's the last option under "JAGADC(PC)".

Regs,
Jeff

Actually, the AUTOCOLOR option I'm talking about is in the SM under AD9883 (Component/480P). It's the last option, just before AD_RESET. Which leads me to another question. Does anyone know what AD_RESET and/or AUTOCOLOR does. Anyone with a service manual out there!!! An answer would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!!

I have the HLM507 with the new internals. Basically, with the DNIE, as this seems to be the easiest way to determine whether you have new or old electronics inside (other than going into the SM). I bought the set through a friend who owns a local AV store. He bought one for the floor and one for me and the other day we experimented a bit after I told him I was none to happy with the pic on my set. Basically I wasn't happy with shadows and there was color banding and blotchiness fromm SD satelite and some DVD's and I was constantly playing with contrast, etc.

First, we played Monsters Inc. DVD through a Compaq computer with a 128mb GeForce 4 video board, DVI out. And the picture was amazing, very close to HD.

Then we played a DVD through a $1000 Sony DVD. Monsters Inc. looked almost as good. Then we put in a DVD, forget the name but it's an Imax pic of auto racing. There were all sorts of artifacts as the camera panned the track... he told me this is one of those DVD's that's a monster for most DVD's and TV's. There was no banding, colors looked good but the artifacts were very annoying. Jaggies and the like. We played with the many setting on the player, and were able to get rid of most artifacts, but they were still subtle imperfections.

Then we ran the same DVD through a $100 Sony DVD player. Same artifacts, but this deck had little adjustment so the only way to correct was to softened the pic on the TV with the resulting loss of PQ.

Then we played the Race DVD back in the computer and guess what. The picture was flawless, no artifacts at all at factory defaults.

(BTW though all the players were progressive, we fed the set I and let the TV upconvert.)

And like everyone else, I've experienced some channels, SD, pretty good on this set and others bad, with lots of evidence of compression. Also problems with shadows and "sunburnt" faces on some channels. You can tweek all you want but here's the conclusion I've reached.

This television is very sensitive to source. If you feed it an incredible source, you will get a pretty amazing picture. If the source is less than good, so will be the picture. And by source I mean this. It not only matters what DVD player your using, but the quality of the DVD itself, the transfer, how the DP shot, etc. Whether your connected to your source through DVI or component, etc. This TV seems to want all digital with as little compression as possible. It does not do very well with compression from SD satelite. This television does not seem to do a good job processing a less than perfect signal or source.

I'm wondering how good the tuner in the TV is as well, as I'm actually on a local Cable net fed by Direct TV at my condo. The SAT receivers are all in the basement so I'm running cable straight into the set. My former set (36"Sony Wega) looked very good with this feed.

As a means of comparison, I just installed a $10k Infocus projector in a media room in a house I built for a client, and its OOTB was dramatically better, even with SD satelite and a 110" picture.

I'm actually thinking of building a computer with a high end graphics card and a TV tuner in it, and connecting all through DVI and going with that. Could do for around $1000.

Comments?

Mike

Originally posted by TV2000
Actually, the AUTOCOLOR option I'm talking about is in the SM under AD9883 (Component/480P). It's the last option, just before AD_RESET. Which leads me to another question. Does anyone know what AD_RESET and/or AUTOCOLOR does. Anyone with a service manual out there!!! An answer would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!!

I've got a service manual, and it seems to have been a waste of money. I haven't examined it real closely, but there appears to be little to nothing about the service menu. It's mostly flow diagrams for repair, parts lists, and high-level schematics. I wonder where the service menu stuff is actually documented.

Dean

Originally posted by Trilogy
I'm actually thinking of building a computer with a high end graphics card and a TV tuner in it, and connecting all through DVI and going with that. Could do for around $1000.
Mike

I'm going to try a HiPix card as soon as I can get a HLN567. I'm interested in how you make out with your HDPC.

I had a HLM507 and the Samsung 160 STB for a trial. I didn't try DirecTV but did use it for OTA SD & HD signals. The best results I found with SD were the digital broadcasts. Even with Digital OTA I would see sunburned faces in the evening news studio shots. When the program would switch to field shots or other sources the sunburn would go away.

Originally posted by dwette
I've got a service manual, and it seems to have been a waste of money. I haven't examined it real closely, but there appears to be little to nothing about the service menu. It's mostly flow diagrams for repair, parts lists, and high-level schematics. I wonder where the service menu stuff is actually documented.

Dean

Cool, thanks for the update on the SM, Dean. I am glad I didn't go ahead and order it for the HLN617W yet. I emailed them about a price quote and if they had it Friday. Guess it won't be much help if your experience is anything to go by.

Thanks and regards,
Jeff

Thanks for the update. It sounds like we have the same TV. I would be VERY interested to hear what you build and how it works. I'm thinking of trying a basic HTPC setup by just using my Radeon AIW 7500 DVI with a cheapo DVD player as a test to see if the banding in faces goes away. I don't like the idea of having to add a HTPC to my AV collection just to get a good DVD picture on my new DLP but if that's what it takes ....

Originally posted by Trilogy
I'm actually thinking of building a computer with a high end graphics card and a TV tuner in it, and connecting all through DVI and going with that. Could do for around $1000.

Comments?

Mike

I was going to build a PC as part of the AV system for the m507. Went to CompUSA and found a custom box with a 64mb Radeon card with DVI out and decided to go for it for around $899 with upgraded audio card with optical out. Rather than going for an expensive stand alone DVD player, decided on this because it could also be used for internet surfing. Also bought a wireless mouse and keyboard. The mouse is kind of cool as it can be held up like a remote and doesn't have to be rolled across a surface to direct the pointer. Would like to find a vid card with a DVI in that could be used as a passthrough, to allow a HDTV receiver to connect throught he PC thus allowing two DVI connects.

The DVD picture is superb through the DVI. 9.5 out of possible 10. And the software controls available in Power DVD are much better than those of a stand alone DVD. Also, surfing the net is great (with a wireless network connection.) I wish the DVI could be displayed PIP, as it would be nice to have a web page or e-mail up while watching tube, but I guess it can't. There is no more banding or color issues, everything clear and crisp.

Had the option of going with a Windows Media PC, but decided against because of price and lack of DVI out on most models...

The 5.1 sound is good not great... turn the sound down on the PC and let the AV amp do the work to reduce hiss, etc.

Mike

Except I believe his is the "M" one, not the "N" one. If they ever get a real "N" one out would somebody please report details here? I've already bought the "M" one and Samsung switched my internals on me and an e-mail asking about a swap of manuals was ignored.

Originally posted by Iceblade
Cool, thanks for the update on the SM, Dean. I am glad I didn't go ahead and order it for the HLN617W yet.

Originally posted by turls
Except I believe his is the "M" one, not the "N" one. If they ever get a real "N" one out would somebody please report details here? I've already bought the "M" one and Samsung switched my internals on me and an e-mail asking about a swap of manuals was ignored.

Correct, Matt. However, my "guess" was that since absolutely nothing changed from the "M" to the "N" with regards to the 61" set, the manuals wouldn't change either. Tech companies tend not to like to create more work for themselves than they absoulutely HAVE to. Not sure that I blame them. I'm of a like mind with you, though. If someone DOES actually get an "N" manual... let us know if it is worth diddly squat. :)

Thanks,
Jeff

I'd tend to agree except for the fact that HLN and HLM had significant hardware and firmware differences. And they botched the initial attempt at a HLM manual, so there is a lot of room for improvement. Somebody stated the only useful thing in the 507W manual was the bulb replacement instructions. In fact, even those are woefully incomplete :rolleyes:

Originally posted by turls
I'd tend to agree except for the fact that HLN and HLM had significant hardware and firmware differences. And they botched the initial attempt at a HLM manual, so there is a lot of room for improvement. Somebody stated the only useful thing in the 507W manual was the bulb replacement instructions. In fact, even those are woefully incomplete :rolleyes:

Hey Matt... I'm just a little confused with your first sentence. My comment above was related specifically to the 61" models. We're you talking about the non-61" models with regards to your "significant hardware and firmware differences"? Most of the other 61" owners having either the HLM or HLN versions have the exact same hardware, and in most case, the exact same firmware, rev. 204. Did I miss something?

In regards to the bulb stuff... I THINK that this was one of the only updates in the User's Guide with regards to the HLM vs. HLN models. I am pretty sure I saw a "Bulb Replacement" section in the user's guide I got pertaining to ALL the HLN models. I can check tonight to verify, but I am like 95% sure that I saw that.

Thanks,
Jeff

Originally posted by Iceblade
Correct, Matt. However, my "guess" was that since absolutely nothing changed from the "M" to the "N" with regards to the 61" set, the manuals wouldn't change either

Incidently, the service manual I got isn't just for the HLM617W, it's for all of the HLM models.

Dean

Originally posted by dwette
Incidently, the service manual I got isn't just for the HLM617W, it's for all of the HLM models.

Dean

Now THAT makes abso-friggin-lutely no sense whatsoever?!?!??!

Are there separate circuit diagrams and stuff for each tv? This is pretty darn confusing since the guts of the 61" vary by a fairly large degree according to most everything we have read and seen.

Well, I guess since there is no discussion of the service menu anyway, other than different circuit diagrams, it would probably not bbe COMPLETELY insane to put all the "M" models in a single service manual.

Still... pretty freaky.

Thanks for the update, Dean.

Later,
Jeff

Well, I finally got a copy of Avia and have now spent many hours with it. Just FYI, I have an Elite DV47Ai feeding my HLM617 in progressive mode through an Elite 49TXi receiver into the Component 3 input.

I have to preface by saying that I have been an a/v and electronics hobbiest since I was about 10 years old, and most would describe my attention to detail as bordering on anal. So maybe I'm "losing it" as I get older, or maybe I'm just lucky, but I simply don't see the kinds of problems with this set that have reported by others on the Forums, including rainbows or banding. I've looked carefully at just about every test pattern offered on Avia, and have read (or listened to) all of their related instructions. Perhaps with test equipment I'd see areas for improvement, but with just my Lasik-corrected 20/20 vision in a dark room, I find the "out of the box" performance of the 617 to be outstanding.

In fact, it was very hard to find the 'right' settings in many cases. For example, they talk about setting white level by looking for things like blooming or over-saturation or widening of the pattern. On the 617, I can run contrast from one extreme to the other and not see any of these artifacts. And there are no problems like bending of the needle pulses that are tell-tales with CRT displays, either. Same thing with many of the other adjustments like sharpness; with a DLP it seems to be more a matter of personal preference than tweaking around display limitations.

Anyway, here are the user menu settings I finally arrived at:
Contrast: 90
Brightness: 50
Sharpness: 35
Color: 74
Tint: 40/60 (ie, to left of 50/50 center)

I ended up leaving color tone at 'normal' after experimenting with the other settings. The only setting where my eyes sometimes conflict with Avia is for 'color' - I tend to prefer it somewhat lower than Avia recommends (maybe 45-50), especially when watching SD material. I find that imperfect sources like Dish tend to make color look oversaturated, so reducing color intensity a bit improves the overall image.

Frankly, both the test patterns and the actual picture look good enough to me that even as an inveterate 'tweaker' I am loathe to touch the SM settings. Even the gamma test pattern on Avia seems to display exactly as their instructions say is correct. There is zero 'red push'. Geometry looks perfect. Overscan seems to be about 2-3%, which is acceptable to me. The other test patterns just seem to display the way they are intended to look.

I know that Video Essentials keeps promising a new version that is better tailored to non-CRT TV's, but until then, I just don't a way to improve things all that much.

So maybe I'm missing something, but my time with Avia merely strengthens my belief that there is no other set I'd rather have at this moment than the Samsung. Sure, I'd love to have slightly better black levels -- but there is absolutely no way I'd trade off all the other advantages of this set to get them.

Rob

Originally posted by Iceblade
Are there separate circuit diagrams and stuff for each tv? This is pretty darn confusing since the guts of the 61" vary by a fairly large degree according to most everything we have read and seen.

Well, I guess since there is no discussion of the service menu anyway, other than different circuit diagrams, it would probably not bbe COMPLETELY insane to put all the "M" models in a single service manual.


All,

My HLM617W was swapped out last week with a brand new HLN617W. The remote appears to be the same, and the manual didn't seem to have any additional content (which makes sense since it just touches on the user interface stuff anyway, none of which has changed).

I do have newer firmware: T-B3K6101-208 dated March 17 2003 11:08:50

-John

Originally posted by johnevo
All,

My HLM617W was swapped out last week with a brand new HLN617W. The remote appears to be the same, and the manual didn't seem to have any additional content (which makes sense since it just touches on the user interface stuff anyway, none of which has changed).

I do have newer firmware: T-B3K6101-208 dated March 17 2003 11:08:50

-John

John,

Do you have the manual with you right now? If so, can you verify for me that it does, indeed, have a new section that the HLM version did not... that being the part about bulb replacement. I THINK it might be near the back, perhaps even in an appendix or something, but I am almost CERTAIN I saw a pic of accessing the bulb assembly and such.

Thanks,
Jeff

Originally posted by Iceblade
John,

Do you have the manual with you right now? If so, can you verify for me that it does, indeed, have a new section that the HLM version did not... that being the part about bulb replacement. I THINK it might be near the back, perhaps even in an appendix or something, but I am almost CERTAIN I saw a pic of accessing the bulb assembly and such.

Thanks,
Jeff

Naw, it's at home. But I'll check it and let you know tonight. I didn't spend much time in the manual since it looked so much like the old one.

I did notice a new sticker on the left-hand side of the TV that mentioned something about the bulb.

-John

Iceblade: I don't have the same set you guys are talking about but the manual that came with my HLN4365W does show how to change the bulb.

How's your Avia tweaks coming?

Mark

Originally posted by markarwes
Iceblade: I don't have the same set you guys are talking about but the manual that came with my HLN4365W does show how to change the bulb.

How's your Avia tweaks coming?

Mark

Mark,

Busy weekend with baby shower stuff and baby room stuff... didn't get a chance to tweak at all. I still need to put up the 16:9 Geometry pattern and measure just how awful the geometry is. Also, I tweaked the normal user menu stuff with Avia last week... but forgot to post my results. Man, setting color and tint with VE or Avia is still a total beotch to me. And I still put forth that sharpness is totally useless on this TV. There was no difference from 0 to 100 or whatever.

I DID notice an oddity with the contrast I think. I will post about it tonight if I get a chance to tweak at all. Gots to setup VPN for my wife tonight... could be a long night. :rolleyes:

Later,
Jeff

Jeff,
The HLM sharpness changess only twice. Between 9-13 and somewhere in the 80s. I've never had sharpness up to the 80s, but I can tell you when looking at the Avia sharpness test when you adjust down around 13-9 you can see a very clear change in sharpness. See if you HLN does this.
Is this your 1st? I have two: 9 and 6. Kids make you younger and happier!


Regards,
Mark

Iceblade: I guess congrats are in order. Good luck with the new arrival. Oh, and the DLP tweaking.

Mark

My HLN507W arrived on Friday.

The manual does indeed have a section on bulb replacement. A section, and an addendum, in fact.

I'm having the Clay faces and banding issues, but am not yet convinced that this isn't my source material (cheapie DVD player).

Don't have an HD source hooked up yet. TW is working on that.

Originally posted by Mark@Ct
Jeff,
The HLM sharpness changess only twice. Between 9-13 and somewhere in the 80s. I've never had sharpness up to the 80s, but I can tell you when looking at the Avia sharpness test when you adjust down around 13-9 you can see a very clear change in sharpness. See if you HLN does this.
Is this your 1st? I have two: 9 and 6. Kids make you younger and happier!


Regards,
Mark

Mark & Mark,

I went through every single setting on both VE and Avia for the sharpness stuff, paying attention to the 9-15 area especially... couldn't tell a single thing on my HLN617W. I seriously am at the point where I just may PAY someone here in the office to come over and verify my sanity!!!

At the risk in incurring other forum member's wrath by talking about anything other than rear projection units, I'll close the discussion on kids by saying, "Yes... it is our first. Thanks for the well wishes." Let's just say, one or two other members got a tad uppity that my "life" had intruded on their precious informational forum. :rolleyes:

FWIW, once I get done dealing with spousal computer issues, I will attempt to hang out with the Avia disc again and post my results.

Thanks,
Jeff

Jeff -

Neither my wife nor I could see a single bit of difference in sharpness settings on our HLN507W using the Avia test pattern this weekend.

Your sanity may still be in question, but not because of this.

Originally posted by smalloy
Jeff -

Your sanity may still be in question, but not because of this.

Amen, brother. I think the jury is going to be out on THAT question for a LONG time. :)

I am wondering now if perhaps the lack of "sharpness" having any effect is due to our owning the HLN species as opposed to the HLM one?

Let's hear from anyone else who has an HLN model and actually notices any difference from one sharpness level to another.

Thanks,
Jeff

I have a HLM507W with HLN internals (Firmware v204). I do not notice a difference in sharpness levels either so I just keep the level at 0 which is my standard practice on CRT's. As for Iceblade's difficulty tweaking color with AVIA, I find it much easier than VE thanks to the pulsating color bars pattern.

Guys,
Do you really think they eliminated sharpness adjustment on HLNs? That is just so weird. I have thought about it and am sorry I can not help. Hopefully they set it at 9 to optimize it.

I also have incurred the wrath of members, but part of all of this is connecting with other people. One or two brief annecdotes are okay ( I hope).

Mark

I'll need to perform a more controlled experiment when I get home. I'm wondering if DNIe being on might have affected the sharpness control.

And speaking of which, am I the only one who seems to prefer DNIe OFF for DVDs (non-progressive, component 1 input)? Specifically, it tends to make the clay faces and banding problems less evident (though they still exist).

Originally posted by smalloy
I'll need to perform a more controlled experiment when I get home. I'm wondering if DNIe being on might have affected the sharpness control.

And speaking of which, am I the only one who seems to prefer DNIe OFF for DVDs (non-progressive, component 1 input)? Specifically, it tends to make the clay faces and banding problems less evident (though they still exist).

smalloy,

Now that is not something I have messed with yet to battle the clayfaces. I'll put that on my list of "things to try". Right now, my reference DVD to combat clayfaces is ATOC. This DVD appears to exhibit virtually every problem I have with this tv so far.

Thanks,
Jeff

I tried watching AOTC, but, God help me, it's a poorly-acted cartoon.

Clayfaces have been most evident to me in the Matrix - esp chapter 4 with Trinity in the bar, as discussed before in another thread, and LOTR, the scene where the gang gets surrounded by orcs in Moria, before the Balrog starts chasing after them. Frodo's face in a couple of closeups, and some of the orcs materalizing from the floor look particularly bad.

DNIe seems to exaggerate contrast in shadow details and really make some of the clayfaces obvious. Especially in highlights (shiny parts of faces, etc).

Of course, turning up the black level makes the clay faces much less noticable, but then I've lost all shadow detail.

Perhaps having the set ISF'd will give me a more true black and help eliminate these problems. Certainly the ISF technician who sold me the set seems to think so :)

Originally posted by smalloy
I'll need to perform a more controlled experiment when I get home. I'm wondering if DNIe being on might have affected the sharpness control.

And speaking of which, am I the only one who seems to prefer DNIe OFF for DVDs (non-progressive, component 1 input)? Specifically, it tends to make the clay faces and banding problems less evident (though they still exist).

That's one of the first things I check when I run across a DVD with poor PQ. Most of the time DNIE is turned off on my set (even on the new "N").

-John

I'm more of a video newbie but I have seen many of the problems discussed with my N-617. The beast arrived a couple of weeks back and I definitely see color banding / clay face / color quantization problems. I too tried using the calibration CD's and had a similar experience to yours in that the test patterns and procedures don't seem totally appropriate to DLP. Blooming in particular is non-existent at any intensity level, sharpness had little or no effect, geometry fine, etc. Like you, I prefer the color levels lower than they recommend.

The easiest way I've found to see the rainbow effect is using one of the grid test patterns that display white vertical lines on a black background, and then quickly flicking my gaze from one side to the other. The quick eye motions will cause huge separations in colors. Not a realistic test, but it sure makes it obvious.

The question I've got is how does a professional calibrator know what to adjust if the Service Menu isn't documented in service manuals?

Forgive the noob question but which movie is AOTC? I must be tired because I can't figure it out.

I posted in another thread that I tested with a HTPC and the scene you're talking about from the Matrix went away. This was proof of concept test with just enough equipment in the pc to get the job done. I threw all my clay face movies at it and it blew right by them. I noticed much better details and colors too. Here's the thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=245698&pagenumber=2

I'm sure I'll figure out AOTC 5 seconds after I post this.


Originally posted by smalloy
I tried watching AOTC, but, God help me, it's a poorly-acted cartoon.

Clayfaces have been most evident to me in the Matrix - esp chapter 4 with Trinity in the bar, as discussed before in another thread, and LOTR, the scene where the gang gets surrounded by orcs in Moria, before the Balrog starts chasing after them. Frodo's face in a couple of closeups, and some of the orcs materalizing from the floor look particularly bad.

Star Wars Episode II.. Attack of the Clones..

Originally posted by Iceblade
John,

Do you have the manual with you right now? If so, can you verify for me that it does, indeed, have a new section that the HLM version did not... that being the part about bulb replacement. I THINK it might be near the back, perhaps even in an appendix or something, but I am almost CERTAIN I saw a pic of accessing the bulb assembly and such.

Thanks,
Jeff

Jeff (and everyone else),

The manual that came with my N617 covers the following models:

HLN4365W/HLN5065W/HLN437W/HLN507W/HLN617W

and the last section does cover "Replacing the Lamp" (Page 88)...

1. Use a screwdriver to remove the screw as shown in the picture.
2. Remove the Lamp cover.
3. Use a screwdriver to remove the screws securing the Lamp. There are 2 screws: one on the left and one on the right. When the screws have been completely unfastened, they will still be connected to the body of the lamp.
4. Separate the Lamp from the engine by holding the handle and pulling it out.
5. To reinstall the Lamp, follow these steps in reverse order.
Note: Be sure the replacement Lamp is the same model. (The sticker on the side of the TV has the Lamp model number.

-John

Originally posted by cwzell
I have brand new HLN617W, and as I said in another current thread, the PQ is merely OK, and at this price point not good enough. Hopefully I can improve it with the Service Menu.

My dealer told me that if I get into the SM, the warantee is void. Is this really true? Can they tell if I have been in there or not? I don't see how there is a chance I'll want to keep it if I can't tweek it!

BTW, if I decide to keep it, I'll want it ISF calibrated. I'd like to get someone who knows about dlps, but is that possible given their immaturity. Hate to pay the $$$ for a newbie to learn how.

Cheers,
Chris Okay - first time poster here but I'm glad I found this place I must say! Arun Gupta's "unofficial guide to HLN's" was a great help in getting started...however, cwzell is on to something when he says the warranty becomes void if you get into the service menu - and I'm surprised nobody else has brought this up yet. I bought my HLN617W with the TS-160 from Tweeter for $4650 & $530 respectively and just received it today in less than a week...haven't even had a full hour of watching it yet, but I'm glad it's Friday! My question is how significant are the changes I am going to see by manipulating the service menu controls vs. leaving them at the factory defaults and just adjusting the user menu settings? And would Tweeter really be able to tell if the factory defaults were adjusted? Does anyone have the default settings so they can be reset in the event the warranty is invoked? Most of you seem incredibly savvy with respect to this equipment and any advice/comments are greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Mike

p.s. and YES I did read this entire thread!

Mike - I don't have a HLN yet, so these comments are made based on the expierences of others - but maybe it makes them less biased, as well.

The differences between HL-M- untweaked and tweaked were apparently huge. The HLNs have better out of the box performance, so there is less improvement to be had. That being said, there are some reports that SM adjustment can help with color temperature, clay faces/color banding, etc. I am a little wary because the claims come from an ISF guy and one of his clients that paid for an over the phone SM adjustment session (being totally digital, this actually is a good idea for this TV, as the same settings should get every one 95% there). I have no reason AT ALL to doubt the claims of Josh and his customer, and I am considering paying for that service, too. However, I just mean that a grain of salt is always necessary when you are talking about money and buyer's logic (self justification!). The other issue is that different video sources produce different results, so it is hard to get an unbiased idea of anyone's results.

In sum, I think that there is improvement to be had in the SM that cannot be touched with the user menu, even using Avia or Video Essentials. Things like gamma adjustment are available, and some people have had good results. Just getting the color to about 6500 all the way across is pretty great, and doable if you have the right equipment, or access to someone who does. However, without a very good eye, professional equipment, etc., the benefits may not be attainable. What we need is for all those Texas AVS guys to go out and upgrade to HLNs, and have another RPTV party and produce SM tweaks for the new sets. Maybe we can get Samsung to buy the beer?

Good luck with your set!
RDaneel

Thanks RDaneel!

Since I don't know what I'm missing yet, perhaps I might be better off at the moment leaving well enough alone when it comes to the SM. The set is already a billion times better than anything I've ever owned...bigger problem was finding a stand to set it on since I wasn't too fond of the Samsung stand - went with a Bell'o instead.

What is the deal with the TS-160 receiver for DTV? People seem to not be too fond of it for some reason? I finally made the switch from cable to satellite and there doesn't seem to be any consensus on the best source - though DTV is the only way to get the NFL package and RSN's.

Originally posted by RDaneel
Mike - I don't have a HLN yet, so these comments are made based on the expierences of others - but maybe it makes them less biased, as well.

The differences between HL-M- untweaked and tweaked were apparently huge. The HLNs have better out of the box performance, so there is less improvement to be had. That being said, there are some reports that SM adjustment can help with color temperature, clay faces/color banding, etc. I am a little wary because the claims come from an ISF guy and one of his clients that paid for an over the phone SM adjustment session (being totally digital, this actually is a good idea for this TV, as the same settings should get every one 95% there). I have no reason AT ALL to doubt the claims of Josh and his customer, and I am considering paying for that service, too. However, I just mean that a grain of salt is always necessary when you are talking about money and buyer's logic (self justification!). The other issue is that different video sources produce different results, so it is hard to get an unbiased idea of anyone's results.Good luck with your set!
RDaneel

Mike,

As the aforementioned "one of his clients" let me be perfectly frank with you. For what Josh charged to do the over the phone calibration, I don't NEED to justify to myself, nor anyone else having spent the money on this calibration. There have been mulitple sets of eyes that viewed my set BEFORE I had this done, and those same eyes AFTER the calibration and they all came up with similar comments, "Hey dude... what did you change? This looks much better than it did last weekend"... or something to that effect.

Ok, so now to address the issue of "different components into different inputs". This is my understanding... take it for what it is worth (about two pesos). A DVI video source into the DVI input of the tv will be unchanged from the source to the tv. Any change to the actual image displayed on the screen will be the result of things within the tv ONLY. DVI is a DIGITAL transmission. There is no "decoding" of color material separation of Y from Cb and Cr. There is no analog to digital conversion. Basically with DVI, whatever is on the DVD, OTA, cable or satellite broadcast signal is what you get at the input of the tv. Assuming that the source material isn't hosed, if you calibrate your DVI input to as close to 6500K, then in theory, ANY DVI source plugged into that jack should look just about equal, variations in the source itself being the only differentiator.

This is a fairly DIFFERENT story from component, composite or S-Vid signals from a video source component. It suffers from all the things that DVI does NOT. i.e. decoding issues, Y Cb Cr separation issues, analog to digital conversion (and back to digital for display on the tv).

Anywho... didn't want you to get too skewed of a view from some of these other posts. Bottom line is, if you are happy with your set as is, AWESOME! Enjoy it. If you find yourself whining about this and that the way I did, see if you can do something about it. I chose to go down a path that had me pay money to someone who's job it is to make this set look good. The fact that my warranty remains in tact is cool. The fact that I didn't have to schedule time off work to have a guy come over to my house and charge me an arm and a leg to calibrate my tv to at least one source component that I plan on trashing as soon as a DVI DVD player comes out makes me happy too. Your mileage may vary. Let your eyes and your gut be your guide.

One last thing. The day this tv was shipped to my house, the delivery guy asked if he could stick around a minute and see me fire it up. I said "Sure", thinking that I could be a big man on the block with my new kick butt tv. I fired up my old DTC100, flipped on HD NET where a basketball game was being shown and went... "There ya go". I looked at the guy... he looked at the picture, he looked at me and said, "I don't mean to dis your tv. But, don't take this the wrong way, I mean, it looks good... but I don't think it looks as good as it should for what you paid for it. I guess HD isn't the hype that I hear about all the time after all." And with that, he left.

Color me a very deflated individual from that point until last night.

Just a little feedback...

Best of luck in whatever you decide. As long as you are happy, that's the key.

I figure someone will get on the ball and ColorFacts one of these suckers pretty soon. At that point you can figure out if you can live without tweaking your way to a possibly better picture than what you have.

Have a good weekend,
Jeff

The basic "some reason" is pretty simple. It was rushed out the door with numerous silly unexcusable glitches and they haven't indicated they even intend to fix many of them. The sad thing is if they fixed a few things it would be a pretty Kick A box. But with only 2 DVI boxes out there (anybody seen Toshiba or RCA--what a joke!), what real incentive do they have to fix.

Originally posted by Red Angel
What is the deal with the TS-160 receiver for DTV? People seem to not be too fond of it for some reason?

OK guys, I know you are all super great video gurus but some practical information to those of us not quite on your level would be great once in a while.

I finally managed to enter the service menu. I was confronted with a bunch of codes. There was no way of knowing what any of them meant. Out of all the chatter going about Gamma settings, only one person (Jeff) mentioned that the Gamma adjustment was under code "DDP1010" (By the way, 5 definitely seems to improve the black detail).

Is anybody else out there also curious about the codes? Do any of you know what they stand for?

eaf

Yes, I would be venturing for the first time into the SM and would like to know what all the code interpretations are, or at least what the major one's are that I should be tampering with.

Any help or guide on this would be very helpful.
Thanks in advance!

Guys, can I encourage you to read this thread "before" you go into the "black hole".

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=247169

There is some rather complete tweaking information for the original HLM507 but not for the HLN sets or the later HLM sets.

It would be well worth the money to get ISF tech Josh Lehman's SM tweaks after you buy your set (jlehman@docdvd.com). Black levels and detail enhancment are awesome. He has spent many hours adusting Samsung DLP's and his research is your benefit. I just did my 507 over the phone with Josh and the results are dramatic over factory settings plus it is factory authorized.

For me getting good black levels on my HLM617W has been due to a combination of items, at least for DVD, which is where I really care about it.

1) I set gamma to 0
2) I had the Component 1 input calibrated by an ISF tech. He also liked the Gamma 0 setting the best, both with test patterns and with DVD video playback.
3) Using a good quality cable. I have a Transparent Cable "High Performance" component video cable, which is their entry level product.
4) I use a good quality DVD player. I have a Marantz DV7100, which had a MSRP of about $900 when I bought it a few years ago.

Recently, I auditioned an Arcam DV88 Plus DVD player for a weekend. While it's expensive at MSRP $1599, it produced incredible results. Black levels and detail improved further, color looked better and more natural, and the dithering/pixelation I noticed with solid colors (like background walls, skies, etc) all but disappeared. Audio playback is also much better.

I plan to buy the Arcam this year. I know many forum members might gasp at the thought of spending 4 figures on a DVD player, but it seems reasonable to me for a $15K home theater setup, which is about what I have into it when you include the DD/DTS audio gear.

Dean

Thanks for the update IceBlade - wondering still however what your issues are with the TS-160 HD box that Samsung makes...I'm assuming that you have an HLN and not an HLM that you had tweaked - correct? That being said, I am in fact quite happy with the performance of the set out of the box, probably because I don't know what I'm missing. One thing I have noticed with my HLN is that when receiving a standard digital signal via DTV, the picture tends to improve gradually when left on the same channel for a few minutes - and it definitely should be viewed from at least the minimum viewing distance of 11 feet or so. The HD pictures are nothing short of jaw-dropping to me compared to anything else I've seen without any tweaks to the SM...so the bottom line for me is that if the warranty is going to be void if I go into the SM, I'm just going to leave well-enough alone. Because my set simply rocks right out of the box.

IceBlade,

What have you done about the geometry issues? Are you going to live with them?

Frank

Originally posted by ftlee
IceBlade,

What have you done about the geometry issues? Are you going to live with them?

Frank

Hey Frank,

I don't think I really have a choice. I haven't had a chance to even turn the damn tv on since Josh recalibrated for my crappy DVD player. :(
I might consider having someone come out and take a peek at it... I think you had alluded to it looking more like a "tilt" than an actual geometry problem from the pics I posted. Once I get a chance to actually watch it for a decent amount of time I will see if it bugs me as much as it did last week.

Thanks,
Jeff

Originally posted by Red Angel
Thanks for the update IceBlade - wondering still however what your issues are with the TS-160 HD box that Samsung makes...I'm assuming that you have an HLN and not an HLM that you had tweaked - correct? That being said, I am in fact quite happy with the performance of the set out of the box, probably because I don't know what I'm missing. One thing I have noticed with my HLN is that when receiving a standard digital signal via DTV, the picture tends to improve gradually when left on the same channel for a few minutes - and it definitely should be viewed from at least the minimum viewing distance of 11 feet or so. The HD pictures are nothing short of jaw-dropping to me compared to anything else I've seen without any tweaks to the SM...so the bottom line for me is that if the warranty is going to be void if I go into the SM, I'm just going to leave well-enough alone. Because my set simply rocks right out of the box.

Red Angel,

You are correct, I have an HLN617W Tantus model. I haven't noticed the "leave it on an SD channel and it improves" thing at this point. I view it from 14' away. HD does, in fact, look pretty darn good.

Glad you are enjoying your tv. I am personally STUNNED that you like it that much OTOB, but if you are happy... groovy. Too bad you don't know someone in your area that has one that has been tweaked... then you could see the difference firsthand.

Enjoy your set!

Later,
Jeff

I totally dig my HLN617W (out of the box). I haven't had to make any tweaks to it. I turned of DNIe, but that's about it. The prior HLM617W was virtually unwatchable, so I've experienced both sides. Oh, I did catch my first rainbow today. I was unable to duplicate it, so maybe it was a fluke?

On a side note, does anyone have some sort of bias lighting behind their DLP? I set up a light today, and the TV absolutely FREAKED out (until I turned the light back off).

IceBlade,

Not sure if I missed it, it is late. After the calibration that you did how do you feel about the PQ of the set? Is SD improved? Is color-banding eliminated? Are the twinkles gone? Do you still have clayfaces?

As a side note, is the picture darker than it was before calibration? Every TV that I have seen that has been ISF calibrated seems to be very dim. Is this the case?

Thanks,

Frank

johnevo,

When you say your set FREAKED OUT with a bias light on, how do you mean? Was it just electrical interference? Did you try plugging the bias light into another circuit and running an extension cord to place it close to the set, just to see what would happen?

I have an HLN617W and an IdealLume, both scheduled to be delivered on Thursday 5/15 (plus a Sammy HD931 DVD player!).

Thanks,
dB

dB,

I was just trying the light to see what a difference it would be behind the TV. It's an older florescent light that I had lying around. Anyhow, I had it plugged into one of the outlet ports on my receiver, so it would turn on/off when it did.

Anyhow, last night we had company, and we all went down to the A/V room to watch a movie. I turned everything on, which was the first time the TV and the light were on at the same time, and the TV freaked. First it showed some light black static, and some thick white bars kind of pulsed in the background. Then when I tried to pull up the input menu, the whole screen turned into a mess of colors... everything appeared to be random, and just about every color was used.

I then turned off the TV, turned off the light, then turned the TV back on. Everything was back to normal. I assumed it was interference coming off the florescent light, but I didn't have time to investigate. I plan to mess around with it later this week.

I'd be interested to hear how your setup works! Or any one else who has a light behind their DLP... what kind of light, and what lumen/filter/etc?

-John

Originally posted by ftlee
IceBlade,

Not sure if I missed it, it is late. After the calibration that you did how do you feel about the PQ of the set? Is SD improved? Is color-banding eliminated? Are the twinkles gone? Do you still have clayfaces?

As a side note, is the picture darker than it was before calibration? Every TV that I have seen that has been ISF calibrated seems to be very dim. Is this the case?

Thanks,

Frank

No problem, Frank.

To be honest, I have not had a chance to put this sucker through it's paces post-calibration. I HOPE to be able to give an updated "how I feel" in regards to DVD playback by end of week.

Here are the questions I CAN answer:

1.) SD through the TS-160 sucks. It's the box. I gotta believe that. SD through the DVI looks watchable. OTA SD content looks better than D* content... but that's no surprise.

2.) HD looks pretty damn good. Very happy with the quality of PBS and HD NET specifically. I am running the TS160 in 720p output mode.

3.) Twinkles... this is one of those things that just can't be eliminated. I will have to learn to live with them. Not a deal breaker... but at least I know I am not hallucinating them as others have seen what I am talking about.

Color-banding or clay-faces verdict will have to wait. I believe Josh flat out said that they can't be eliminated, but can be attenuated. My guess is that I will still see them, but they may not be as apparent.

As for the darkness of the picture... that really seems to be HIGHLY dependant on your DVD player. Josh had to spend extra time with me to counteract the effects of my P.O.S. player. Once he did, I saw details on ATOC that I didn't even know were there. For instance, in Chapter 4 of ATOC, the Jedi council is having a pow-wow with Palpatine. Before calibration (and before re-tweaking to deal with my DVD player), Palpatine appeared to be wearing a mass of black... i.e. no discernible features other than a black blob. AFTER calibration I could see that he had a sort of cumberbund on under the robe and some other details. It was amazing the difference! I can't say that I believe that my picture is "dark" at all. I have really good contrast and brightness levels to MY eyes. I use an Ideal-Lume bias light behind my tv reflecting on a medium gray wall. Not sure if that has any effect, but my eyes don't "wig out" nearly as much when the picture goes from dark to light. I consider "CSI:Miami" a fairly good acid test for contrast and brightness. They constantly toggle between exterior bright Miami sunshine and cold and dark medical examiner's table. Looks pretty impressive to me. Details are apparent in both. I ran downstairs to watch the same program on my 36" direct view in HD and actually thought the 61" looked better. I think I need to recalibrate my direct view AGAIN... it appears to be somewhat color saturated.

I'll let everyone know my further thoughts.

Later,
Jeff

ftlee,

The reason you have seen TVs that looked dim after calibration should have little to do with either the quality of the calibration or the TV. I am surprised that the owners of the TVs could not or did not explain this to you. All video displays, especially CRT-based TVs, cannot produce their best picture while competing with high ambient light levels. The newer digital displays can do a better job in this regard but still not without some picture problems.

RPTVs all have high-gain screens to provide a "watchable" image in broad daylight. The result is barrel distortion, diminished resolution, moire, hot spots, poor white field uniformity and limited viewing angles (especially vertically). That is one reason why front projection still provides the ultimate picture. Most of these problems can be eliminated in an RPTV by using a diffusion screen but then it would be unwatchable in a bright room.

A correct calibration is done with ultimate image quality as the goal. That is currently available only in a dark environment. Once the set is configured for a darkened room and picture settings are recorded, the user controls will usually have to be changed for bright lighting conditions. Resolution, grayscale, white field uniformity, color accuracy, black level, white detail and CRT life will usually all suffer, but it will look brighter overall. Typically, contrast and brightness will need to be turned up in order to provide a "watchable" picture in a brightly lit room, then back down to reference levels in a darkened room for more serious viewing.

All picture adjustments are interactive and affect one another in some way. If a display is required to produce more gross light output than it was designed for, it will be operating outside of its linear operating range. This condition invariably results in consequences elsewhere in the picture. The job of a calibrator is to adjust a display so that it is performing within its linear design capabilities, all picture elements considered. The calibrator should have explained to the owner of the TV what I have just stated.

Absolute, optimum viewing should only be performed in a darkened room with low-level backlighting. The viewing environment is an often-neglected but vital component when considering how to get the best image from a display, just as acoustics and speaker placement are vital to achieving the best sound in a room.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

Insist on HDTV!:eek:

I had Josh do an online calibration for me last weekend. I am much happier with my 507W after the calibration than before. My biggest issue was color saturation which is no longer a distracting issue for me. The greens seem a tad "bright" to me still (compared to GWII or CRT for example) but nothing like they were before. Clay faces show up occasionally but are much reduced -- I'm hoping that a DVI-DVD or HTPC-DVI will reduce this artifact even more. Never had screen door issues since I sit 10-11ft from the set. I still have more DVDs to check out, but I'm happy with the service and recommend it if you aren't happy with your set.

So how does one get in contact with Josh?

John,

Read through this entire post first. It has the answer and perhaps some more info that will help you before you even ask other possible questions. Call it a "pre-emptive knowledge strike" :)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=247169&perpage=30&pagenumber=1

Good luck,
Jeff

Gotcha! Thanks Jeff!

I know that someone mentioned this before but I am having problems finding the post.

IceBlade - it sounds like you and I are using identical equipment (HSN617W Tantus w/TS-160 box and DTV...but you've had SM tweaked and I haven't. That being said, have you noticed the white line down the (left edge) of a picture running through DVI vs. no white line when running through component two? Is this an anomoly of the receiver or the TV?

Originally posted by johnevo
Gotcha! Thanks Jeff!

No prob, dude. Ping us if you need more clarfication/info. Quite of few of us HLN'ers have been down the calibration path with Josh rather than wait another six eons for someone to use ColorFacts to calibrate one of these puppies and post the results on the forum.

Have fun,
Jeff

Nevermind - I just found the answer in another great thread:

4. Off center picture when using DVI or RGB as the output/input. My picture is shifted about 1-½ inches to the right. Samsung knows of this issue. This should be fixable by a software download, which will add a Menu item for raster adjustment (just like the RCA DTC-100 has). Samsung has confirmed that this will be added in a future software download.

RESOLVED – THEY HAVE INCLUDED A “MONITOR SETUP” MENU ITEM UNDER “INSTALLATION” WHICH ALLOWS YOU TO CENTER YOUR PICTURE – ONLY APPLIES TO DVI AND RGB.

Originally posted by Red Angel
I know that someone mentioned this before but I am having problems finding the post.

IceBlade - it sounds like you and I are using identical equipment (HSN617W Tantus w/TS-160 box and DTV...but you've had SM tweaked and I haven't. That being said, have you noticed the white line down the (left edge) of a picture running through DVI vs. no white line when running through component two? Is this an anomoly of the receiver or the TV?

Yep, got the same stuff. Yep, noticed the white line. Went into the setup menu on the TS160 in the Raster Centering part and clicked one notch to the left. White line go bye-bye. :)

Now, if you ask me if my picture looks off-center now, I will most likely say "no".... though it may just be a black line on the right that I see instead of a white on the left now, if you take my meaning. i.e. I shifted the white line off the screen to the left and shifted IN a black line on the right. Not sure if that is what happened or if this is even possible, but my white line is all gone.

Now, about the white line at the BOTTOM... that's a whole other story. :rolleyes:

Later,
Jeff

Originally posted by Red Angel
Nevermind - I just found the answer in another great thread:

lol... there ya go. That sounds awful familiar. :D

Later,
Jeff

Fortunately, I don't have the white line on the top or bottom - yet...but I've read that the solution is to view in widescreen to overscan and hide the line...

Reading through these threads lately, I've been feeling like the last one to show up at a party and am many cocktails behind everyone else.

Originally posted by GeorgeAB
ftlee,


A correct calibration is done with ultimate image quality as the goal. That is currently available only in a dark environment. Once the set is configured for a darkened room and picture settings are recorded, the user controls will usually have to be changed for bright lighting conditions. Resolution, grayscale, white field uniformity, color accuracy, black level, white detail and CRT life will usually all suffer, but it will look brighter overall. Typically, contrast and brightness will need to be turned up in order to provide a "watchable" picture in a brightly lit room, then back down to reference levels in a darkened room for more serious viewing.





My Samsung 43" DLP is in a busy family room surrounded by numerous large windows. In the daytime (unless all the shades are drawn) we adjust the contrast and brightness up to compensate for all the ambient light. This is especially important when trying to achieve a viewable picture while tuning in various cable networks in SD. At night, we simply adjust the display closer to reference to watch DVD movies or cable HD programs. We always have some dim backlighting in the room, though.

I find that the DLP has nearly as bright of a picture as direct view CRT's, which is very helpful under high ambient light conditions. With DLP's, the only thing I can think of that might be stressed by adjusting the contrast and brightness levels up during the day would be the projection bulb. I suppose it may burn out sooner than usual.

You mean 7000 hrs vs 8000?

Originally posted by Red Angel
You mean 7000 hrs vs 8000?

LOL... exactly!

Originally posted by gshelley61
LOL... exactly!
At the rate these bulbs have been breaking down, it's more likely to be 700 rather than 800 hours (hopefully not).

gshelley61,

One thing that happens on these digital displays when contrast is increased too far is that detail is lost in white areas. It's called "white crush." Commonly, a person in a white shirt will not have folds, seams, pockets, collar, etc. visible, just a solid white mass. Of course, when brightness is turned up the blacks turn gray.

The bulbs in the digital displays burn at a constant rate at all times, unless there is an "economy" mode that reduces the current to the bulb by one step. Light variation otherwise is controlled at the chip rather than the bulb.

Originally posted by GeorgeAB
gshelley61,

One thing that happens on these digital displays when contrast is increased too far is that detail is lost in white areas. It's called "white crush." Commonly, a person in a white shirt will not have folds, seams, pockets, collar, etc. visible, just a solid white mass. Of course, when brightness is turned up the blacks turn gray.

The bulbs in the digital displays burn at a constant rate at all times, unless there is an "economy" mode that reduces the current to the bulb by one step. Light variation otherwise is controlled at the chip rather than the bulb.


Yes, I have noticed the "white crush" you mention. During the daytime with the brightness and contrast increased, the picture is definitely not as detailed, but easier to see (not too dim) with the large amount of ambient light pouring into the room. For more critical viewing, we draw the shades or wait until it is dark outside and return the settings back to a more reference-like condition.

Thanks for the info on the bulb. Of course, that totaly makes sense. Can you think of any damage that might occur to a DLP from slightly overdriving contrast and brightness to compensate for high ambient light conditions?

Since it's just light bouncing off of tiny mirrors and passing through color filters, lenses, another big mirror, then through the screen material, I doubt that there could be any damage anywhere along the way. The only consequences would be in picture quality.

Originally posted by GeorgeAB
The only consequences would be in picture quality.
What would these consequences be?

Maurice2,

The typical consequences to picture quality have been stated previously in this thread. Please note the context.

Originally posted by GeorgeAB
The typical consequences to picture quality have been stated previously in this thread. Please note the context.
Yes, I had read about them. I was wondering whether there might be any PERMANENT consequence to PQ. I gather from your answer that there isn't any.

Only done with S-VIDEO input. I hope this spurs other people to action, or at least start some more tweak posts. For me, an explanation of all the entries would be a good start :confused:

george

Maurice2,

Unlike phosphor-based displays, no permanent damage can be done from over-adjusting picture controls.

Best regards,
G. Alan

Insist on HDTV!:eek:

Originally posted by najay
Only done with S-VIDEO input. I hope this spurs other people to action, or at least start some more tweak posts. For me, an explanation of all the entries would be a good start :confused:

george

On HLN617W I changed degault gamma from 4 to 2. Apperently that table is also closer to standard IRE curve. With gamma 2, I am getting better black details, but it certainly can be improved further. This applies to all inputs (DVI, Component 1 for DVD, and Antenna for cable) and difference was little positive for PQ. Everyone talks about setting colr to Warm 2, however, I prefer Cool 2.

What I don't understand is there are two settings for bulb - OSR, and other is TOS/PHIL. The default is OSR but chaning it to TOS/PHIL definately changes colors. I did not not mess with it and put it back to default OSR.

Has anyone aquired further knowledge on HLN setting? Description?

Originally posted by rkt999

What I don't understand is there are two settings for bulb - OSR, and other is TOS/PHIL. The default is OSR but chaning it to TOS/PHIL definately changes colors. I did not not mess with it and put it back to default OSR.

Has anyone aquired further knowledge on HLN setting? Description?

George:

This setting is for picking between Osram or Toshiba manufactured lamps. Since they have different operating characteristics, I would be concerned by a setting that does not match the lamp. It may effect life, heat, etc.

paul

Originally posted by tecman

This setting is for picking between Osram or Toshiba manufactured lamps. Since they have different operating characteristics, I would be concerned by a setting that does not match the lamp. It may effect life, heat, etc.


Paul, what's your opinion on the possibility of putting the 120W Osram lamp into a 507? It would seem to be supported by the software, but whether it will "fit" or "work" is another story.

I'm basically looking for any way of boosting contrast/brightness, even if it voids the warranty (provided it's safe). Can the lamp power be regulated in the SM?

The dlp sets i've seen seem to vary quite noticably in peak brightness... is this due to varying output from lamp to lamp?

Doug:

I've seen nothing in the SM. I'm sure there is a way to adjust the lamp's electronic ballast, but the service manual gives no hint. I suspect that there are many more things that can be tweeked through the RS232 port. Seems what we really need is a mole within Samsung to get us the inside scoop.

paul

I don't know if this is the right thread to post this but I do have a question, and since I'm no expert on my HLN507W, I knew someone here would give me a straight and correct answer. I have the Samsung SIR-T151 tuner. My question is, do I set the resolution switch to 720P or leave it at the factory setting of 1080i? I heard that the HLN507W converts 1080i to 720p anyway, so would it be of no use to set the switch to 720p? Or will I get a better pic if I do switch it to 720p? Thanks in advance for your help.

Does the SIR-T151 have DVI output?

No DVI output on the T151. I really can't tell any difference when I switch from 1080i to 720p, except the channel numbers when they pop up on my tv are bigger and less sharp on 720p.

Originally posted by wxman
No DVI output on the T151. I really can't tell any difference when I switch from 1080i to 720p, ...

It probably doesn't make much difference. The HLN507 will have to convert from analog to digital no matter what you do. Maybe someone with a combination like yours would help out if you start your own thread. You need subject something like: "What is the best setup for the HLN507 using SIR-T151 tuner?"

... or, something like that.

I did trying tweaking my HLN507W gamma scale as discussed earlier in this thread from the default 4 to 5 or 0. Saw no real difference in picture quality, so switched it back to 4. Gamma 3 is terrible. The set is awesome. has a build date of Dec 2002, and 78 hours on the bulb and still glowing. I'll keep my fingers crossed there.

wxman,

I just set up my set. My manufacturers date is April 2003. How do you change gamma? I can't seem to figure that out.

Right after you turn your set off, while the shutoff beeps are playing,
hit the following buttons on your remote...mute 1 8 2 power. When the tv comes on you will be in a different on screen menu. If nothing happens, then you didn't do it quick enough. It may take a few tries. Gamma is located in the menu labelled DDP1010. Highlight and select it, and you can select gamma from the next menu. You can cycle thru the different gamma levels. I believe 0 through 9. You will notice big differences on some of them, and little on others. 4 works good for me which is the factory setting, but each set is unique, and you should wait until you have close to 100 hours on it until the bulb settles down. But you can't hurt it by changing gamma for fun. There are plenty of other areas in that menu that I will not mess with until the experts get into it and give their advice. But gamma is simple and easy to change back. To get out of the menu, you have to turn the power off on your set. let sit for about a minute and turn back on. The menu will not display. If it still doesn't clear the menu, power off and unplug. Then power it back up.

Thanks wxman.

I was just wondering, I've got the sense after reading that there are two majorities regarding palette selection, some prefer warm2, some cold2. Any relation to lamp setting in SM?

I have noticed a difference between a 720p HD OTA picture vs a 1080i HD OTA picture. Signal strength is almost identical betwen the 2 stations (ABC and CBS local) However, the 720p has a much more natural color vs a more sun burnt pic on faces with the 1080i. My reciever is the SIR-T151. Is it normal for 1080I to be so different with color quality? Both pictures are very sharp. When I watch the 1080i signal, I have to turn the color down to 25 or 30 vs 50 for 720P.

Re Samsung HLN617W black level.

There is something strange going on here. Many including me, have commented on the poor black level on the Samsung HLN series. Various "improvements" have been suggested including changing the gamma setting and reducing the sb_br setting. I find that with a truly black screen as can be obtained with no signal input, the gamma setting and the sb_br setting (below the 248 default) make no difference whatsoever. The only way I can reduce the black level is with a neutral density filter. What's going on? Am I missing something?

Pete

Somebody please help me- I went into the Samsung service menu by pressing mute 1 8 2 power on and then I pressed this option calling aging option or something like that- now my screen only shows color bars and white screens and gradations of the color gray. I admit it was my mistake to fool with something I didnt know much bout but I am hoping that someone can help me out- if anyone knows what to do please let me know cus I'm stuck and worried now.
Thank you very much
TRE

Somebody please help me- I went into the Samsung service menu by pressing mute 1 8 2 power on and then I pressed this option calling aging option or something like that- now my screen only shows color bars and white screens and gradations of the color gray. I admit it was my mistake to fool with something I didnt know much bout but I am hoping that someone can help me out- if anyone knows what to do please let me know cus I'm stuck and worried now.
Thank you very much
TRE

Just got one of our HLN617W's, out of the box info:
manufacture date May 03, 2003
Firmware T-B3K6101-211
Gamma set to 4 default
No word on Discrete codes, the remote is the same as prior models. The firmware/hardware may support them but not have them on the factory remote(i.e. SIR-TS160 has discrete on/off, but not on the factory remote) Would someone from Samsung comment on this? If the codes are available, what format (NEC, NEC2 etc?) What is the device code and function code?

Discretes found so far

device code 7 function code 152 "off"
0000 006d 0000 0022 00ac 00ac 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0689

device code 7 function code 151 "on"
0000 006d 0000 0022 00ac 00ac 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0689

Tested these commands, both work. No luck with inputs yet, possibly a sub device code??? 7:1, 7:2????


Jason

Wow, good work Jason. I'll be trying these tonight with my HLN4365 (learn to Pronto, teach to MX-700).

This is great news!

Thanks Jason!

Has anyone else gotten these codes to work? I tried it on my HLN617W a few minutes ago, and all I got back was a "Not Available" message. I tried some other variations, and was able to get PIP to come up, as well as some source scan, so I don't think I screwed up testing the discrete codes... My firmware is a bit older though...

T-B3K6101-208 dated March 17 2003 11:08:50

-John

I think the discrete codes only work with the new version of the firmware.

That's what I was afraid of. Have you determined if the inputs have discrete/advanced codes associated with them?

Still working on that piece of the puzzle

As stated in the other thread, did not work with the HLN4365.

I don't know what revision of firmware it is (haven't accessed the service menu since it's a loaner), but I suspect it's an early rev.

Where? remotecentral? (I'll try to go there and check myself, but I've never needed discrete codes before).

Originally posted by PHSJason
(i.e. SIR-TS160 has discrete on/off, but not on the factory remote)

SIR-TS160 discrete power codes

Device Code: 9.9 Function: 152-On

0000 006D 0000 0022 00AC 00AC 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 070A

Device Code: 9.9 Function: 153-Off

0000 006D 0000 0022 00AC 00AC 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 070A


Tested hundreds of times, both work

I've changed Gamma from 4 to 5 and also to 2, but I preferred the default of 4 since it seemed to be more natural. I tuned the settings for night viewing since this is when I mostly watch.

I have an HLN507, Release Mar 15 2003, T-B3K5001-208, and a Pioneer DV434 progressive scan player set at Interlaced mode.

Here are the settings that works for me which I derived from AVIA tuning...

Color Tone: Normal
Film: On
DNIe: Off (On for SDTV)
DNR: Off (On for SDTV)
Contrast: 80 (75 for SDTV)
Brightness: 83 (60 for SDTV)
Sharpness: 20
Color: 39 (27 for SDTV)
Tint: 50/50

SDTV is via lousy cable TV signal.
DVD is connected via component out.
DVD setup is set to "Professional" setting, rather than TV(CRT) or PDP.

Also, I've never seen the DLP rainbow whatever I do (scanning L to R, moving head, etc.).
I see the minor light reflection at the lower right on dark scenes when there is a bright spot on the upper left.
Clayfaces depend from DVD to DVD but it doesn't show on SDTV signals. With the TVs default settings, the clayfaces seem more apparent.
With my Xbox, it feels that I am using a big computer monitor. Very sharp, detailed, no flicker. I use an Advanced AV Pack which uses S-Video.

I usually get headaches watching RPTVs from the showroom or when using a computer monitor with a refresh rate lower than 72Hz, but I don't with this DLP. It also helps that I have soft ambient lighting and I'm 10 feet away. Unlike some TVs, I don't see any flicker. The image is very stable, almost like looking at a computer LCD.

I love this set so far!!! My wish? To be able have it ISF calibrated for FREE. :)

Thanks, Jason
Just tried the codes with my HLN617W. Worked flawlessly!

T-B3K6101-208
Release Time : March 17, 2003 11:08:50

Pronto TSU6000

Thanks for your efforts. This is just way cool. How do you go about finding them? Inputs would be awesome.

Stan

Myki,

Might I suggest that you rather wish for having the resources to PAY for an ISF calibration? Nothing provided by other people is free.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

Insist on HDTV!:eek:

Jason (and Stan),

My earlier attempts at using a Radio Shack 6-in-1 remote to use the discrete on/off commands (against the HLN617W) was a complete failure. However, thanks to Stan, and a nifty program called CCF2MX (Thanks Rory!!) that I found on Remote Central, I got them to work!!

Now I gotta have the discrete commands for the selecting the inputs. Man, with those commands, I could rule the world! (or at least my A/V Room)

Thanks again, guys!

-John

P.S. George, is that supposed to be a joke?!?!

Johnevo,

Not a joke, wisdom.

Best regards,
G. Alan Brown

Insist on HDTV!:eek:

George,

Was your comment because I come from a poor country? Well, I did say I was just wishing. Something like wishing for world peace or wiping out hunger. It's nice to have, but I know it will not happen in my lifetime. I'm an IT consultant by profession, MCSE, MCSD, and soon CLP certified... I do give free services to my friends and relatives.

Johnevo,

I have a learning remote that came with my Marantz SR7200 and I don't know how I can make use of the codes posted above. Any suggestions?

Myki

Hi Myki,

Since the Marantz SR7200 is a learning remote, it should be able to use the codes, but unless you can connect the remote to your computer, you're probably stuck with learning the codes from another remote. This is what I was hoping to do with the Radio Shack remote that I referred to in my earlier posting.

Unfortunately I was unable to get the Radio Shack remote to work, otherwise I'd tell you to try it. If you're interested in trying it on your own, check out the Remote Central web site. It's pretty darn good for reviews, and excellent when you use the forum.

My remote, the MX500, has some optional software from IRClone that allows you to program the remote as well as backup and restore the data to the remote. I ended up using this program along with that CCF2MX program to get the hex codes stored in the MX500. The hex codes were provided by Jason earlier in this thread.

Sorry I can't really answer your question. I could help you if you had a Pronto, the Marantz-Pronto (whatever it's called) or an MX-series remote, but I can't really help you with your remote (unless you're in the Kansas City area!). If you are looking into remotes, definitely check out the Remote Central web site (www.remotecentral.com). I'd probably recommend the MX700 over the MX500, but only because I believe it has more buttons that you can save macros to.

Regards,
John

Myki,

You will have to use a software based remote or an OFA(One For All) remote that allows you to either cut and paste the Hex format posted earlier, or use a JP1 cable to allow you to input the device code and function code directly into the remote. Device code is 7:7 function codes are 151 and 152. If you know someone with a pronto, have them bring the remote to your house, download ProntoEdit4, UPLOAD and save the program that is in your friends remote, then create a basic CCF with the hex codes listed above, use the Pronto to "teach" the codes to your Marantz remote, then DOWNLOAD the original program back into the remote. If this doesn't work, e-mail me and we will see what we can do for you. If worst comes to worst, when I find the input commands, I can send you a $10.00 learning remote with all the commands in it.

Jason

John and Jason,

Thank you very much for your concern and help. I checked out with the local Philips office and they don't sell the Pronto here in the Philippines. That's too bad.

Anyway John, I did a google on that MX500 and WOW!!! Now I know what you meant by you can now rule the world!! :-) That's one heck of a remote. I'll browse around remotecentral and see what remote is best for me.

Jason, great suggestion, I'll see if there are Palm-based remote software that can accept Hex codes. Don't bother with the $10 learning remote :-) I live half-way around the globe. Thanks for the offer anyway.

Thanks again guys!

Myki,

I can save my MX500 configuration and send it to you if you decide to go with it. You will need the optional, 3rd Party, IRCLONE hardware and software to use it though. Overall, I'm quite pleased with the Remote, except I wish it had two things:

1. More buttons for macros - the MX500 is extremely limited on the macro-side of the house, and I think the MX700 is a bit more flexible

2. Larger memory/storage for the LCD buttons. I would like to be able to store 2-3 X10 commands on a single button, but there's not enough storage except for the smallest commands.

Good luck!
-John

Jason,

Any advice as to why I couldn't get my Radio Shack 6-in-1 (15-2104) remote to work right? I programmed the device, and was able to control the TV (power on, power off, volume, PIP, etc.).

Once I was able to do that, I pressed the "p" button to try the discrete code. Then I pressed "152" to turn off the TV. I also tried "7152", and some other variations. I noticed that the TV's LCD blinked whenever I pressed a button/number, so I believe it was seeing some of the codes, just not the right ones. I believe "158" does PIP or some Antenna scan (BTW).

So, what am I doing wrong?

Thanks!
-John

Maybe I am missing something. What exactly will the discreet codes do? And will the addition of discreet codes work for people just using the samsung remote? If samsung is not replacing the remotes, why would they add codes for which the remote wont even use? On another note, I have a PocketPC which has TV Remote Controller on it which uses CCF files made with the Pronto software. As I understand it, I can use the pronto software to program these hex codes into a CCF and then transfer it to the pocketPC. I can then use the PocketPC to train my Radio Shack 6-in-1, right? If this makes any sense, please let me know. Thanks.

rayz007

BTW, I have a HLN617W rev. 208 March 2003

Originally posted by rayz007
Maybe I am missing something. What exactly will the discreet codes do? And will the addition of discreet codes work for people just using the samsung remote? If samsung is not replacing the remotes, why would they add codes for which the remote wont even use? On another note, I have a PocketPC which has TV Remote Controller on it which uses CCF files made with the Pronto software. As I understand it, I can use the pronto software to program these hex codes into a CCF and then transfer it to the pocketPC. I can then use the PocketPC to train my Radio Shack 6-in-1, right? If this makes any sense, please let me know. Thanks.

rayz007

Rayz,

Basically it boils down to lots of us having programmable remote controls that offer the use of macros. Let's say for instance the you when you go to turn on your theater setup, you always want the tv to turn on, tune to the DSS input via DVI and switch to channel 199. In almost all cases, there is no way for your remote to know what the status was of the tv when you turned it off... so without being able to directly select a particular input, in this case the DVI input, you would be screwed and have to do it all manually... which is a pain and is not usually an accepted practice by most people's significant others.

With discrete power codes, rather than having a button that toggles between on and off, you get one code to turn the tv ON, and another different code to turn it OFF. Same thing with the inputs... you would get separate codes to select DVI vs. Comp1 vs. S-Vid3 or whatever. MASSIVELY USEFUL for those of us that need to make our setups as "user friendly" as possible.

Hope that shed some light...

Later,
Jeff

Myki,

I should apologize for shooting my mouth off over a simple, innocent comment. Your national origin and financial status was not an issue at all. I am a teacher, trainer and father and fail to make the mental transition at times when moving outside of those roles. We all are prone to see life through the filter of our own experiences. I was projecting into your circumstances what I recently encountered in my own life.

It is certainly possible that some ISF calibrator could offer their services for free. You may well be a fine, generous individual who deserves such a gesture.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown

Insist on HDTV!:eek:

Jeff, you have no idea how true that is as far as the significant "other" goes, lol. I understand now. I programmed macros on the RS 6in1 and I had to make sure I left the TV in a "default" state in order for the macros to work. So now I wonder if its worth the $200 to have these discreet codes. Are you going to do the upgrade. I have the same rev as you I think(208 March 2003). Let me know if you make progress on the codes.
Thanks for your help.

rayz007

Johnevo,

To be honest, I have not used that remote to program discretes. From what I understand, you need a jumper jable from your computer to the remote to be able to enter the device and functions codes manually. The function code "152" does not refer to a series entered from the remote, but rather a binary packet of data called a function code that the remote sends to the TV. This function code needs to be assigned to a button on the remote. For more information on how to do this, check here:

http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/mboard/rc-one4all/list.cgi

rayz007,

The remote control chipsets used in different brands are often made by the same handful of companies(NEC etc..). The manufacturer of the TV then "assigns" a device code to the TV and then decides which of the 256 function codes they want to use for each command. For instance, the HLN617W uses device code 7:7, and out of the 256 commands available for device code 7:7, they only use about 50 or so (fuction code 1 is TV/Video, function 2 is power toggle, function 3 is sleep etc...). The discrete commands are often hidden in other places in the function table. Panasonic for instance uses one device code for the OEM remote, but the TV will respond to discrete commands from another device code (128 and 128:4 if memory serves). It is not uncommon for a product to have a lot of discrete commands available but only have toggle functions from the remote. The Pro-Scan PSHD105 is a good example. This reciever has discretes for everything including aspect, input, etc. The remote that comes with it only toggles all of the functions(and slowly I might add). The reason they are not on the remote is simple economics. Remotes with more buttons cost more to build. Most people are content with the TV toggling because they don't know what a macro is and could honestly care less. Discrete codes are useful to the handful of people who know that there is a better way to make things work.

Originally posted by rayz007
Jeff, you have no idea how true that is as far as the significant "other" goes, lol. I understand now. I programmed macros on the RS 6in1 and I had to make sure I left the TV in a "default" state in order for the macros to work. So now I wonder if its worth the $200 to have these discreet codes. Are you going to do the upgrade. I have the same rev as you I think(208 March 2003). Let me know if you make progress on the codes.
Thanks for your help.

rayz007

Ray,

Actually I don't have the same version of firmware... mine is 204-Novemeber 2002... so I am most likely screwed in terms of getting the discrete codes that have been published so far. In all likelihood I will need to have a firmware update, not the $200 board thingy. If I can't do a firmware without dropping $200 to get a new board with the EXACT same hardware on it that I already have... well, let's just say I will have to think LONG AND HARD before I buy redundant hardware for a friggin firmware update. Ugh!

Later,
Jeff

Hi Jason,

From what I've gathered from the Remote Central site, as well as a few other sites, I should be able to enter codes directly into the remote through a series of key-presses. My remote doesn't have any external interfaces, but it's one that will allow "advanced codes" to be programmed. Here's a link if you're interested:

http://www.hifi-remote.com/ofa/faq.shtml#[1.13]

If anyone knows how to do what I'm talking about, please let me know! I've been able to get things to happen by trial-and-error, but I obviously don't know enough to achieve my objectives! :)

The external interface is in the back in the battery compartment. The Link you posted showed how to enter the "advanced codes" in section 1:13. It says to enter the code "994" after holding the Magic button then press the Magic button again followed by the code.
[1.13] How do I assign an advanced code to a button?

This involves a similar sequence to the key mover function. The difference is that the advanced code sequence is used instead of the source button.
PRESS the device, (TV, VCR, CABLE, etc.), button - RELEASE
PRESS and HOLD the MAGIC button until the red LED flashes twice, then RELEASE.
PRESS 9 - 9 - 4.
PRESS the "MAGIC" button and then the three digit extended function.
PRESS the button you wish to use for that function - Two Blinks.

I'll check the battery compartment tonight when I get home.

I know the text that you cut/pasted quite well... isn't the "advanced code" or "extended function" the same thing as a discrete code? At least that was my belief. (??)

How the heck did this thread turn into a Universal remote thread :rolleyes:

Has anybody figured out how to turn off black enhancement yet?

Where in Cent. IL are you? I'm in Bloomington. I'm in a conundrum as to which set to buy Philips LCoS, Sammy 46 inch, or the new "soon to come" (famous last words), Sony LCD, either the 42 or (KF50WE610). Sony says its supposed to be great PQ (ya, they all say that) besides I'm concerned with potential burnin!

Matt:

What would the improvement be if we could turn off black enhancement? My main problem is that the colors are too bright on HD stations which distorts the color. Maybe AVIA is an answer. I may try an analog signal booster from the cable, bypassing the 5100 and going directly into the VCR for SD. Digital stations from the cable are pretty good.

Rich N.
HLN-5065W

Wonder how many are going to upgrade to the new board from Samsung ($200.00) for the HLM TV's??



Geoffrey

Originally posted by PHSJason
Discretes found so far

device code 7 function code 152 "off"
0000 006d 0000 0022 00ac 00ac 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0689

device code 7 function code 151 "on"
0000 006d 0000 0022 00ac 00ac 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0689

Tested these commands, both work. No luck with inputs yet, possibly a sub device code??? 7:1, 7:2????


Jason

FYI These do not work on my HLN507 purchased in May. I believe the manufacturing date was in December.

Originally posted by PHSJason
SIR-TS160 discrete power codes

Device Code: 9.9 Function: 152-On

0000 006D 0000 0022 00AC 00AC 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 070A

Device Code: 9.9 Function: 153-Off

0000 006D 0000 0022 00AC 00AC 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 070A


Tested hundreds of times, both work

I have an SIR-TS165 and these codes do not work on it. Does anyone know if discrete on/off codes have been discovered for the 165?

Originally posted by WildWillie
FYI These do not work on my HLN507 purchased in May. I believe the manufacturing date was in December.

You MUST have the version 208 firmware in order to have a prayer of these working. Most likely you have a version 204 or earlier set of firmware on your set. I don't think version 208 is present in any sets manufactured before April 2003. Just fyi...

Regs,
Jeff

I am new to discrete codes. I understand the basic idea and I have an HLN617 so I need them. I am obviously missing something. I would think there would be one code for ON and one for OFF. Why do I see 72 HEX codes for each? Sorry to be so slow, but any help would be appreciated. In any event, it is only academic , since it seems that the HLN617 doesn't have discrete codes, at least for input selection where it is needed.

Pete

Each grouping of hex codes makes up the IR code. If IR codes were limited to two bytes worth then there would only be a grand total of 256 codes for every single component known to man... and all without error correction or any other protections against random IR patterns causing things to happen.

The code, as presented, is suitable for putting into the Pronto software, which generates CCF files. There are quite a few remotes that can use those files, one way or another, to program the remote via computer (the MX-700 is the latest - with the new software update it has a "Global Explorer" which lets you drag and drop codes from CCF files).

Zathrus, thanks for the explanation. I have an MX-500 remote and hope to get an IRCLONE interface for my computer. Unfortunately, without a method of selecting inputs discretely, there is no point in proceeding.

Pete

How much was the IRCLONE? THe website sayus they are out of stock and show no price.

The discrete IR codes found in Post #163 in this forum work with my HLN507W, Release date Apr 2003, firmware v209. Way to go!!! Keep them coming.

-I just bought my HLN507W this past weekend, and it has the Manufatured date of Apr 2003, how do I find out if it has the discrete codes?

-Also, can't seem to get the side-by-side PIP working??? I have my main screen on C3(HD Cablebox) and I hit the PIP(source Antenna), but when I hit the size it only gives me "Large" and "Small"??? I thought that I could do this???

-Where are the "Audio" outputs on the tv and how do I shut off the speakers in order to use my stereo as my sound source?

Thanks very much in advance!!

Sorry...One more addition to my last post...
-How do you do the "video input labeling"?

There is no video input labeling available on the Samsung DLP's yet. As for the discrete codes, the manufacture date does not necessarily mean that the firmware date is the latest. You need to get into the service menu (with power off press: mute, 1, 8, 2, power). The firmware and release date will be listed on the bottom. If it is firmware v209, you have discrete codes that will need to be copied from Post #163 in this forum and pasted into your remote in hex format. There is currently no remote available that has direct access buttons to learn into another remote so you will need a computer programmable remote to accomplish this. The only codes available so far are ON/OFF. Direct input commands will be available shortly. Good luck.

Originally posted by DingoAce10
-
-Where are the "Audio" outputs on the tv and how do I shut off the speakers in order to use my stereo as my sound source?

Thanks very much in advance!!

The audio outputs are labeled "Monitor Out".

Just turn the volume all the way down. The monitor out jacks are not affected by the TV volume control.

Thanks WildWillie!
I figured out though that the Component inputs will not work through the Monitor out...So I took all of the analog audio inputs out and put them into a switch. Then from the switch to my stereo and seems to work just fine..
I am getting the Sony "auto-switcher" so the switch will detect what source is coming though and switch inputs automatically...Otherwise I have to manually do it or do it with a remote...

So far with my HLN507W (less than a week), there are two major color issues I want to be able to tweak. First, there seems to be a bit of red saturation (is that what people are calling clay faces?) on DVDs (component 1)? The Cool1 setting seems to help significantly on that, though I'm still not 100% happy with that setting (other colors are a bit drab).

Second, X-BOX games seem to be way to dark on Component 2. I think it's a Gamma issue, but am wondering if others have noticed this too. Did going to the service menu and turning Gamma to 0 help? The SM settings are by input, right?

I'm a bit reticent to enter the service menu yet. I've heard I need to log about 100 hours anyway before I start really tweaking things. Still, I don't think these issues will be going away...

I also have an HLN507. For XBOX, I prefer Gamma 2, DNIe: On and DNR: On. Gamma 0 is too dark for my taste.

Acruther,

Have you calibrated your set with either Avia or Video Essentials? The default settings of my HLN507 had brightness too low, and color a bit high so my Xbox as well as DVD appeared dark and reddish like what you are experiencing.

I used Avia both for my DVD player, and my Xbox.

The default settings also give the "clay faces" effect and this is why others have tweaked their units to remove it or either had an ISF calibrationist do it. According to a lot of testimonials, if you get a DVD player with a DVI output, the clay faces will be eiliminated and picture quality will improve.

If you do decide to enter the service menu, take down all the settings and store it somewhere safe just in case.

Myki

Thanks for the great advice Myki. I will try those settings!

I think I'll wait on the HD version on Video Essentials (assuming it ever comes out)

'Digital Video Essentials' in 1080i and 720p is already available on D-Theater VHS. We have copies but don't have it loaded onto our online store yet. A Google or Froogle search should locate a dealer. Widescreen Review's web site should have a link to a dealer.

Joe Kane is announcing this week that the NTSC DVD version should be completed by the end of July. I don't know when it will actually be for sale, however.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

Insist on HDTV!:eek:

Hi everyone -

Well, my 507 finally arrived (yay!), and I wanted to report that I think I have firmware 211. I don't know the manufacture date. I didn't have any problem getting into the SM - if only I knew what to do once I got in there ;)

I don't have a pronto, so I don't think I can check for discrete codes - but I am very happy with the PQ out of the box, though things should get better once the HTPC is set up... I, too, noticed that Xbox games were too dark, so maybe I will have to play with brightness and gamma on that input...

Cheers,
RDaneel

GeorgeAB

According to Amazon.com, Digital Video Essentials will be released September 2. I have a copy pre-ordered.

For those who drive DVI input from HTPC, are you able to set mode to 1280x720 which is native resolution of Samsung DLP sets?

Yep, no problem with my Radeon 7500 (latest drivers). Just plug it in, reboot, and it auto-detects the Sammy as a monitor and offers you 800x600 or 1280x720.

I own an HLN5065. This is my second. My first one I was not happy with. The unit had a severe colour issue where if I backed off the colour to get a natural facial colouration it would lose all colour. Samsung replaced the set. Without hiring someone to calibrate this set I believe I have come to a very good group of settingsfor this TV. I am on digital cable with a Motorola box and have watched some movies that even you expert types would find hard believe were not presented in HDTV. And yes I have seen HD. My hookups are not unusual and probably in line with the average joe. I have a 3way splitter at the decimation point, and a two way at the tv. Also at the decimation point I added a Radio Shack digital cable booster($40 CDN) which to my suprise did not degrade the picture and at half power gave it a little bit extra. For the most part PQ is pretty good. Most channels are very clear and the bad ones on analogue are still bad(lower band etc.). I have looked at the Sony sets etc. and any artifacting issues on the Sammmy can be seen on these sets as well. They just seem to be masked by the lack of clarity of reproduction. Two particular movies come to mind. Men in Black II and Pearl Harbour just about stopped my heart. I would never have believed I could be watching such a beautiful picture from digital cable.

One thing I notice from the tweakers is all the extreme variations and would like to suggest maybe less is more. Unless you are going to have someone come in to calibrate youre DLP try these suggestions. With these settings I found that in scene transitions the background light wass black and the overscan line on the left went away. As well I get good facial colour and vibrant colour on everything else.
Make sure your connections are good and also secure.
Contrast 81
Brightness 42
Sharpness 50
colour 35
tint 48/52
Colour Temp Normal

Try watching this for a while and see what you think.

DLPNut,
Are those settings within the user settings or service menu?

Contrast 81
Brightness 42
Sharpness 50
colour 35
tint 48/52
Colour Temp Normal


Is this generally within line (+ or - 1 or 2) of the consensus of this thread (without reading, tabulating all umteen posts)?

And finally, are those percentages? I don't recall seeing any numbers in the user menu for say contrast etc...just the colored sliding w/ maybe a half point indicator. I just got my set Sunday and haven't messed w/ it too much yet.

These settings are in the user menu. I think most people are setting contrast more toward 90, brightness 40-60 colour between 40-50, tint between 45-60. I have played with all these settings and it is why I say less may be more. I'll explain. Contrast and brightness. Although in a brightly lit room 90-100 contrast and 50-60 brightness might look good it is too much and the TV itself tells the tale. Put your TV in a 4:3 aspect mode. with contrast high wait for a fade to black(no picture displayed)scene transition or commercial. In those few seconds all you have is a 4:3 display with no picture but with the contrast turned up you can see where the picture is supposed to be because of the excessive light. Turn your contrast down till it disappears. With high brightness if you look to your left border of the 4:3 image you will probably notice a 1/4 inch line from top to bottom. Turn down the brightness until it disappears. Colour on these sets are extreme. I find that with a high setting facial colours are overdone. You need to back off the colour as much as you can. And even in doing so I find that other colours will not be washed out if not overdone. I found 35 good and 32 a little too light on colour. Be aware that all channels have different colour presentation. Failing an individual setting for each channel you must strike a good balance. I believe this approach will do well for you on both old and new materials and from channel to channel. Tint to taste(most noticeable on faces and set your sharpness to taste. I think you will be happy. The set will be more than bright enough and less eye fatigue at night. Colours will be natural and not over saturated. When you hit a channel with a good signal and presentation it will knock your socks off. If you have HDTV I could only imagine the spectacle you will witness.

You will see the numbers come up when you actually adjust a setting. You will see the picture quality mature between 50 - 100 Hours use and you will be glued to your set. I am not even a big fan of TV and I'm addicted.

Good Luck

I duno; without going into the SM, the blacks are too crushed for my tastes.
I changed my HLN617's Y_OFFSET in the AD9883 menu from 60 down to 51 for much better results.
IMO, the blacks are still crushed a little, but better than they were out of the box.
The blacks at this point are not as good as the HLM507 set I worked on earlier this year (using the tweaks provided here in other threads). For some reason; IMO, there seems to be less available items to tweak on the new chipset.

I have an hln507w and out of the box colors were great but blacks were terrible. Most of my viewing is on standard Direct TV. I set the gamma level to 1 and I get much more detail on blacks and shades. At the same time the blacks aren't "true black", but it seems to give the picture much more detail. What other setting is everyone using? Once you change the gamma level, does it change it for all components? Please share any of your settings.

I also have it hooked up to a Sammy Sirt 151? PQ is great, especially ABC. If your going to buy a DLP and bargan the price, most stores "cost" for a 50" dlp is about $2560. Just thought it might help someone.

Thanks for the in-depth reply, DLPNut.

I watched Ghost Ship last night on DVD (non-progressive scan, lousy Go-Video unit) through Component 1.

My wife and I both absolutely loved the picture. Some scenes were just crystalline. I thought the blacks were fine as well, and there are a lot of dark scenes in that movie.

One thing of note I noticed in this film was how bright the set can get...a lot of flashlights below deck and when aimed directly at the camera...it's insane. I had to shut/half-shut my eyes about 20 times during that movie.
I was wondering if my neighbors thought we were trying to morse code them all night :D

I watched my new Daredevil DVD last night and I was amazed at the quality of this DVD. Even the dark scenes were very clear, and the skin tones look realistic.

I now believe that the Samsung DLP is a very accurate TV, if you feed it bad media, then it will show bad picture quality (banding, clay faces, etc.) but if you feed it great media, then GREAT picture quality.

Most CRT TVs, especially SDTV sets seem to hide these flaws.

I set my set to Cool 2. Initially, when I played around with the settings I said "Yuck" to the Cool 1 and 2 settings. But after seeing a post of an ISF calibrationist recommending Cool 2, I tried it. Set it to Cool 2, and then use AVIA or Video Essentials to adjust the other settings like Contrast, Brightness, Color, Tint, etc. DNIe off, DNR off. Leave it at Cool 2 for a few days and see how you'll like it then.

STR3T

Glad you are having success. You will ultimately find your perfect settings, but in the AV world quality of source/signal is the key. That and patience while we wait for total HDTV. By the way, the DVD HD931 is nice reproduction. Oh! Just wait till you see these white/flashlight sort of reflections on your screen. You'll go nuts until you figure out it is the reproduction of light reflection on the lense of the camera. Or you see a scene with people inside a vehicle and notice all the reflections off that window you've never been able to see before(and you cursed the TV!!!!). Only then will you realize the potential of this technology.

Enjo

Oh! Just wait till you see these white/flashlight sort of reflections on your screen. You'll go nuts until you figure out it is the reproduction of light reflection on the lense of the camera. Or you see a scene with people inside a vehicle and notice all the reflections off that window you've never been able to see before(and you cursed the TV!!!!). Only then will you realize the potential of this technology.

Or you might just realize that you've seen the dreaded internal reflection flaw, known to curse the Samsung DLP sets, and thought it was an effect in the material you were watching.

;-)

Btw, regarding that internal reflection problem: do you guys think that since the back side of the new Tantus HLN46/56 models is different from the current ones, the reflection problem may not appear in these new units? It seem that some flaw in the case design (thin upper part of the case - too close to the front screen) may caused the reflections to appear... I've heard that new models are "boxier", and not as thin on the top - maybe those reflections will go away? Just a wild guessing here....

Boxier.... Maybe Samsung can start a new advertising campaign.

"The Tantus HLN46/56, boxier but good" or "New boxier case for an improved image!".

Originally posted by Andrew67
"The Tantus HLN46/56, boxier but good" or "New boxier case for an improved image!". Something tells me you have seen Crazy People. This sounds just like their Volvo ad.

Originally posted by t0lik
Btw, regarding that internal reflection problem: do you guys think that since the back side of the new Tantus HLN46/56 models is different from the current ones, the reflection problem may not appear in these new units? It seem that some flaw in the case design (thin upper part of the case - too close to the front screen) may caused the reflections to appear... I've heard that new models are "boxier", and not as thin on the top - maybe those reflections will go away? Just a wild guessing here....

Not likely - the threads that go into great detail on this issue seem to have concluded that the problem lies not in the mirror or housing at all, but in the optics (lens or more likely the light engine) before it ever gets to the housing.

It'll probably need a fix/redesign in the light engine to get rid of those internal reflections.

My SM Tweaks:

Well, I'm a total noob but I stumbled onto something good anyhow. I used the suggestion here to deal with blacks. Like Gamma at 0 and (Component Menu) Y_Offset to 53.

But I still felt faces where too red. With no tint option on Component 3 I tried more settings in the SM component menu. Iy got the red out, could go further maybe but don't go too far to green or blue.
cr_gain from 150 -> 153
cr_offset from 58 ->60
cb_gain from 150 -> 147
cb_offset from 58 ->57

write back if you try these, and say what you actually use.
jb

JB:

I'm givng your settings a try. I took me a while to realize that this part of the SM is only selectable when an HD source is selected.

Did you make any adjustments for DVD (component 480i) or S-video? I see red skin tones across the board and adjusting Tint enough to reduce it starts making blonde hair go green.


Originally posted by jb33
My SM Tweaks:

Well, I'm a total noob but I stumbled onto something good anyhow. I used the suggestion here to deal with blacks. Like Gamma at 0 and (Component Menu) Y_Offset to 53.

But I still felt faces where too red. With no tint option on Component 3 I tried more settings in the SM component menu. Iy got the red out, could go further maybe but don't go too far to green or blue.
cr_gain from 150 -> 153
cr_offset from 58 ->60
cb_gain from 150 -> 147
cb_offset from 58 ->57

write back if you try these, and say what you actually use.
jb

all,
I got my HLN-507W in mid. June, few days later I found this very annoying optical light reflection (some call it optical artifact, or "light shadow" or "ghost"). This is happening when a bright object is displayed on a black back ground scene. To the exact opposite side of the object on the screen there is this reflection of that object in a form of a diffused dim light.

One way to test it is to run T2 the HD version, when the melting metallic
titles moving on screen at the beginning of the show, look just to the lower right side of the title letters, you should see them moving with title.

I called Samsung, they referred me to the local trained tech. support, they came looked and said nothing they can do. The shop I purchased where nice and sent me another one, same issue. I looked at their display unit, has the same problem.

I called Sami again, took them aprox. 2 months to call me back, this morning they finally called me. They told me that Samsung engineering knows about the internal reflection issue and that's how they work !

Any way to solve this by internal adjustments ?
thanks
Dan.

No. there is no way to fix internal reflections. Search this forum - there is tons of info on that issue.

The only real complaint that I have with my HLN467 is some "Clay Faces", even with Samsung 931 DVD in on DVI, primarily in low light scenes. I have done some SM tweaks that seem to have improved the situation. Does anyone have any useful tweaks that have worked for them with this issue? TIA

Myki: Waycool is the way to go!! I stumbled on to the same conclusion. While many apparently like warm 2, cool2 is right for me so far. I haven't jumped into the the service tweaks yet, though.

I found that changing the GAMMA to 0 helped in low light scenes. DVI made the largest difference, but the 0 GAMMA should help too.

-Rob


Originally posted by bimmerbe
The only real complaint that I have with my HLN467 is some "Clay Faces", even with Samsung 931 DVD in on DVI, primarily in low light scenes. I have done some SM tweaks that seem to have improved the situation. Does anyone have any useful tweaks that have worked for them with this issue? TIA

Thanks, Rob.

In playing with the set last night I found the same thing. Gamma to 0 seemed to be fairly good - not perfect, but very good. I did not find anything else that had as much of an effect. I also played around with the delay. Some people reported that changing it to 212 improved things, but the goal was to maximize the RED using Delay (there is a whole thread on this). In short I found that the original Delay setting for my set of 223 optimized the Red, so I left it there. So now I am running with Gamma at 0 as my only SM tweak and then I played some with the user menu picture settings. The DVD picture through DVI is really very good, but I can't wait to get HD.

I also put on The Matrix and looked for the infamous "internal reflections". I have to say that I did see it. Very faint, so if I was not looking for it I would never have seen it. Definitely not something that will bother me. I also can hear the fan noise if everything in the room is dead silent. Again, not something that will be a problem. As far as rainbows go, I have never seen them. I am glad, and I'm not going to try!

I am on this "problem finding" mission because I am still within my 30 day return window. The clay faces is the only thing that is a distraction to me. Overall I love the set. In addition it has gotten good comments from my "how could someone spend so much money on a TV" wife, so that has a big influence on keeping the set.

Originally posted by bimmerbe

The clay faces is the only thing that is a distraction to me.

After 3.5 weeks for me: Lowering S_CT dramatically reduced the incidence of clay on S-video SD satellite (507, v.211). Only some minor sunburn left for me to get rid of.

Art

[QUOTE]Originally posted by topfuel6
[B]After 3.5 weeks for me: Lowering S_CT dramatically reduced the incidence of clay on S-video SD satellite (507, v.211). Only some minor sunburn left for me to get rid of.

What value did you end up with for S_CT? I have seen values of 100, down from 135 for your set, although I have a 467, v214 so it may be different. I'll try this next.

-Brian

I now believe that the Samsung DLP is a very accurate TV, if you feed it bad media, then it will show bad picture quality (banding, clay faces, etc.) but if you feed it great media, then GREAT picture quality.

I'm starting to think that way. A low contrast scene looks flat and low in contrast. A dark scene looks dark. I wonder if CRT sets do some kind of automatic gain control or signal boosting like a receiver does with its loudness control.

Originally posted by bimmerbe
[QUOTE]Originally posted by topfuel6
[B]After 3.5 weeks for me: Lowering S_CT dramatically reduced the incidence of clay on S-video SD satellite (507, v.211). Only some minor sunburn left for me to get rid of.

What value did you end up with for S_CT? I have seen values of 100, down from 135 for your set, although I have a 467, v214 so it may be different. I'll try this next.

-Brian

I changed from 130 to 105. I want to try 100 next.

Art

Originally posted by topfuel6
I changed from 130 to 105. I want to try 100 next.


I tried 100 last night. Not a huge difference, but with all the changes my clay faces seem to be OK. I tried the White Rabbit scene in Matrix which people have complained about and it was perfect. Still get some on SD signal, but I attribute that to the generally poor signal quality. Overall I am very happy with the picture. Now to wait for HDTiVo...

I just received the new Digital Video Essentials. It has some great shots in the beginning. I have a question about screen position. When I viewed the overscan test pattern it appears to be shifted a little bit towards the top of the screen. I could see the 2.5% bars on the bottom, but not on the top.

Any idea how to move the display position a tad?

-Rob

Under the service menu DDP1010 you can use the POS-X and POS-Y to center your image and even out the overscan all around.

I recently bought an HLN 4365W DLP TV and I have two questions.

1) Mine does not have a tint adjustment available on the component inputs although I've talked to one other member who says his does. Do your Samsung DLPs have a tint adjustment as the fifth choice under custom controls while in component mode? I'd like to adjust the green levels. I've got a little too much and it tends to drown out yellows. Any other ways to accomplish this?

2) What kind of picture can I expect on analog stations? I do OK with a direct coaxial connection but when going through the digital cable box and component inputs the analog pictures look worse. Is that normal or does something need tweaking?

2)

I think all the newer ones only have tint on 480i sources; I had it on Antenna, Vid 1-3, Svid 1-3 and Component 1 (being fed 480i), but not on Comp 2-3 or DVI. v214 firmware HLN467.

Sea Ray:
There is only a "tint" option on 480i....hence the "tweaks" thread. The only way you can change the "tint" (actually, changing the individual R-B-G gains) is through the service menu. It's VERY easy to do...get a DVD you like showing a well lit scene, enter the service menu, and adjust the R-B-G gains to a point that you like. The adjustments you make will only be operative for that input source i.e. if you're watching via DVI input your adjustments won't hold for other input sources. Check out Mike_Pro's excel file above for all the explanations you need.

It's a stupid way to design a set...there's a little thread on this I started a couple of days ago.

Ben

Thanks for the quick reply. Looks like an awfully complicated way to adjust color. I have gotten into the service menu, I was just too chicken to change anything. Supposedly I'm getting a professional tweak job a week from Friday. Seems tricky to change things on a black screen. Wouldn't you have to get out of SM to see what you tweaked?

To adjust these things you just go down to an item and hit the right pointing arrow?

One more thing, should all DVD players be hooked up to Comp 1 (480i) or should progressive scan be hooked up to one of the other component inputs? My progressive scan DVD owners manual doesn't mention anything about this.

I just got an HLN507w. this is my first HDTV and I've got a dumb question.
I've got a progressive scan dvd player (kenwood) with component out. I've got it plugged in to component 1. I still see the black bars with a widescreen movie (Minority Report). I still get them when I set the zoom to panoramic. With Zoom 2 I get no bars. Is this what I have to do for all movies?
k.

you want to hook up a NONPROGRESSIVE scan dvd through component-1 and let the set do the scaling. Best way to view dvd is thru DVI output. Lots of threads on this forum about how to hook up your dvd player.

changing the RGB gain settings is simple and you can view the effect on the tv while you do it. can do it while watching a tv show or a dvd or whatever. not any tougher to do than changing tint, esp if you've done any photo editing on your computer...same sort of stuff. Make sure you write down the original settings first before you tweak anything.

re: black bars. too many threads on this to repeat. basically, a widescreen tv will still have black bars depending upon the dimensions of the source you're viewing. search this forum and you'll find out more than you ever wanted to know about black bars. If minority report isn't exactly 16:9 (the dimensions of your set) you'll see some black bars.